This is the return that I will make you for saving me, for now you are in need of friends. But when the gods honor a man, he has no need of friends; for the god’s aid, when he chooses to give it, is enough.
This is interesting when contrasting it with Prometheus. Prometheus was honoured by Zeus and Ocean, but he still chose to trick/disobey Zeus to further his friendship with Man. Maybe this is because Theseus is not a god, and Prometheus is a titan?
After I took on a cloak of youthful flesh, [1270] of all the toils I then endured what need to tell? what did I not destroy, whether lions, or triple-bodied Typhons, or giants or the battle against the hosts of four-legged Centaurs? or how when I had killed the hydra, [1275] that monster with a ring of heads with power to grow again, I passed through a herd of countless other toils besides and came to the dead to fetch to the light at the bidding of Eurystheus the three-headed hound, hell’s porter. Last, ah, woe is me! I have dared this labor, [1280] to crown the sorrows of my house with my children’s murder
It's interesting to see this coming from Heracles. It seems like he actually regrets doing the actions that made him a hero. We see this is in Achilles as well when Odysseus speaks to him in the underworld
coming to check my deadly counsels, my kinsman and friend. [1155] Now shall I stand revealed, and the dearest of my friends will see the pollution I have incurred by my children’s murder.[1] Ah, woe is me! What am I to do? Where can I find freedom from my sorrows? Shall I take wings or plunge beneath the earth? Come, let me veil my head in darkness; [1160] for I am ashamed of the evil I have done, and, since for these I have incurred fresh blood-guiltiness, I do not want to harm the innocent. Theseus and his retinue enter. THESEUS: I have come, and others with me, young warriors from the land of Athens, encamped by the streams of Asopus, [1165] to bring an allied army to your son, old friend.
We saw inklings of this in Prometheus in Prometheus Bound. Like Prometheus, Theseus values friendship very highly. Even though Heracles has done something tragic, Theseus is still offering council. What do you think Zeus would do?
Well, know that I’ll produce a better son than you. You’ll feel the insult all the more when I adopt one of my slave boys, and grant him your wings and torches, bow and arrows, and all the rest of the gear I gave you, which was never intended to be used this way.
This begs the question whether Cupid's powers originate from the bow and arrows he was given, or from him himself. Does he empower the bow or does the bow empower him?
scorching the god of flame himself
This is interesting. I wonder if this oil is some "divine" type of oil. It seems contradictory for "the god of flame" to be "scorched". Is this showing that the gods are actually very vulnerable to harm, but not death?
Yet, as the light shone clear and the bed’s mysteries were revealed, she found her savage beast was the gentlest and sweetest creature of all, that handsome god
I wonder if Cupid is seen as one of the most beautiful gods. We aren't given an exact description of Cupid so much so there is no debate over it. We see this in art depicting Cupid and Psyche where their features are often dependent on the era it was made.
This fellow's ruckus is not news to me. But for an enemy to suffer at the hands of an enemy is not disgraceful. So therefore, let the forked curl of lightning be cast upon my head and let the sky [1045] be convulsed with thunder and the wrack of savage winds; let the hurricane shake the earth from its rooted base, and let the waves of the sea mingle the courses [1050] of the stars in heaven with their savage surge; let him lift me up high and hurl me down to black
Prometheus is stating that this crusade he is on is worth all of the suffering he endures. He would rather suffer for eternity than let tyrant Zeus take over the world without opposition
I see, Prometheus. And even though I know you are wise, I’d like to give you some advice. [310] Know yourself and adapt yourself to the new times. There is a new ruler among the gods.
This is the opposite of what Prometheus is trying to prove. This is also the last thing Prometheus would do. He holds his morals too high to succumb to someone that he sees as a tyrant
is harsh and [190] has his own form of justice; but nevertheless, one day he will let up, once he has been crushed in the way that I know he will be. Then, letting go of his anger, [195] he will be eager to be my friend.
This speaks to Prometheus's values. He doesn't believe that justice should be created by power. Truth should decide what is just and unjust. The last sentence also shows how much Prometheus weighs the value of friendship.
But fleet-footed Achilles glared at him in answer: ‘Don’t speak of my parents, dog. I wish the fury and the pain in me could drive me to carve and eat you raw for what you did, as surely as this is true: no living man will keep the dogs from gnawing at your skull, not if men weighed out twenty, thirty times your worth in ransom, and promised even more, not though Dardanian Priam bid them give your weight in gold, not even then will your royal mother lay you on a bier to grieve for you, the son she bore, rather shall dogs, and carrion birds, devour you utterly.’
This is very very strong hatred Achilles is showing right now. A lot of heroism is centered around the death of the hero some call a "beautiful death". When Achilles decides to let the animals devour him and later on drags Hectors corpse through the dust, he is denying Hector his "beautiful heroic death"
dear wife, don’t grieve for me too deeply yet. None will send me to Hades before my time: though no man, noble or humble, once born can escape his fate. Go home, and attend to your tasks, the loom and spindle, and see the maids work hard.
This doesn't really make sense if you read between the lines a little bit. Imagine trying to console someone by saying "welp you are meant to suffer so might as well not be sad about it." You can still be sad about what is fated to happen
He who fights his best and he who stays away earn the same reward, the coward and the brave man win like honour, death comes alike to the idler and to him who toils. No profit to me from my sufferings, endlessly risking my life in war.
It's almost as if Achilles does not even want to fight. He's basically saying "whats the point?" everyone dies in the end. Whether I fight or whether I don't, nothing matters in the end
‘And I saw
The myth of Sisyphus is very interesting and a big topic in philosophy. Long story short Sisyphus angered Zeus, making Zeus send Thanatos (Death) after him, which Sisyphus managed to outwit. He also angered Hades when he tried to cheat death again by appealing to Persephone to let him out of the underworld. Due to these two offenses he was sentenced to roll a huge stone to the top of a hill only to have it come back down and start over for all of eternity
But if you long to hear I cannot refuse to speak of a sadder thing than these, the fate of friends who escaped the dread ranks of the Trojans only to die later, to die on their return through an evil woman’s wiles.’
I believe this is a case of xenia. Alcinous offered that Odysseus can stay until tomorrow. In return, Odysseus must return the hospitality by fulfilling Alicnous request of a story, even though he might not want to
Glorious
This quote from Achilles makes it seem like Achilles actually regrets that he chose glory over a life with no legacy. Maybe life in the underworld isn't so bliss for heros?