with bronze cymbals and the sound of horses’ hoof-beats.
interesting they mentioned bronze cymbals as, to my understanding, tartarus' distance is measured by a bronze anvil falling
with bronze cymbals and the sound of horses’ hoof-beats.
interesting they mentioned bronze cymbals as, to my understanding, tartarus' distance is measured by a bronze anvil falling
Charon, dreadful in his squalor, with a mass of unkempt white hair straggling from his chin:
interesting they didn't mention the turban Charon is often depicted wearing in ancient artistic renditions
The first came for Cerberus the watchdog of Tartarus,
this is so random but I just thought about how Harry Potter went thru a Katabasis in the philosopher's stone, and I guess met 'hades' i.e. quirrel/voldemort at the bottom. And ofc Fluffy guarded the entrance
‘And I saw Sisyphus in agonising torment trying to roll a huge stone to the top of a hill
that sucks
Know that I saw Minos there, Zeus’ glorious son, seated with the golden sceptre in his hand, passing judgement on the dead as they sat or stood around him, making their case, in the broad-gated House of Hades.
is this the same king Minos as the King minos of crete? If so, was he always one of the moral decision makers? Or was that something that happened after his death?
what could your resolute mind devise that exceeds this: to dare to descend to Hades, where live the heedless dead, the disembodied ghosts of men?”
what would a descent to the underworld by a woman be called if a Katabasis is reserved just for males?
a lawless, aggressive people, who never lift their hands to plant or plough, but rely on the immortal gods.
here you can see the social hierarchy between agrarian societies and hunter-gatherer societies
rosy-fingered Dawn
another example of a homeric epithet
copious meat and mellow wine
yom
None will send me to Hades before my time: though no man, noble or humble, once born can escape his fate
I love the foreshadowing here
So saying, he found a way to defile the fallen prince. He pierced the tendons of both feet behind from heel to ankle
that's coldddd
but failed to find white-armed Andromache at home.
i think Hera was described like this too - I wonder if they have similar physical traits or white-armed is a expression of beauty?
And they’re so like you, and touched by your semblance, and as often as I see them, my eyes are wet with tears.
So sad :(
Scorned Medea, the helpless exile, speaks to her recent husband,
Why is there a trend of partners of Heroes being left in the dust after risking their own lives for the hero's quests?
Why did I take more pleasure than I should in your golden hair, and your comeliness, and the lying favours of your tongue?
I really appreciate reading Medea's POV when being left for another woman because the details of her pain make the reading relatable. For me, descriptions of feelings and emotions ground these mythical characters
“Two different natures, man and bull, were joined in him.”
cute <3
and because of his passion for Aegle, the daughter of Panopeus, as I have already said,1 he is accused of the desertion of Ariadne, which was not honorable nor even decent;
I thought he abandoned Ariadne because she had strange sexual interests?
This is the work of none other of the gods than the wife of Zeus; you are right in that surmise.
I misunderstood this line for a bit - if Heracles devoted himself to Hera, even changing his name, why would she harbor such resentment for him? Then I remembered that he was a child born from Zeus' infidelity. Small details make all the difference in these stories
O Theseus, did you see this struggle with my children?
I like how this story doesn't paint Heracles as a perfect hero, rather showing that with all his talents come certain demons he has to deal with - it's a three-dimensional character approach that I appreciate of the original texts and that doesn't come through in the watered-down kiddie versions.
[1245] My ship is freighted full with sorrow; there is no room to stow anything further.
love the wording of this!
Pittheus apparently understood, and persuaded him, or beguiled him, to have intercourse with his daughter Aethra.
In the end, did Pittheus get any gain from manipulating Aegeus to sleep with his daughter?
The more common report is that Remus contemptuously jumped over the newly raised walls and was forthwith killed by the enraged Romulus
I few weeks back when I was doing some research for this course, I read that certain iterations of the story don't attribute Remus' murder to Romulus, but to someone else from Romulus' 'side'
He was struck by lightning and left the crown to his son Aventinus, whose shrine was on the hill which bears his name and is now a part of the city of Rome. He was succeeded by Proca, who had two sons, Numitor and Amulius.
was he actually struck by lightning? Or is this a figure of speech?
shall bear Mars twins.
Cool!!!!
Then Romulus will further the race, proud in his nurse the she-wolf’s tawny pelt, and found the walls of Mars,
cool to see how race is equated with a city, whereas now, race is something that transcends city or country. Definitions are always subject to change!
will wage a mighty war in Italy, destroy proud peoples
to my understanding, there was no concept of Italy until more recent history, it was mostly identified by these city-states. I'm wondering if this is a mistranslation???
And to Cadmus were born daughters, Autonoe, Ino, Semele, Agave, and a son Polydorus.37 Ino was married to Athamas, Autonoe to Aristaeus, and Agave to Echion.
here's an example of a city's origin myth that's part "indigenous" and the lecture said and part "foreigner". The "indigenous" would be the Sparti fighters and the "foreign" would be Cadmus! Cool to see how (probably) 2 stories have been blended into one!
First, I’ll chop off this long plait of yours.
rude!
But first, tell me, what is your race? Where are you from?
This is what 'race' used to be known as - in the ancient world, people's identities had less to do with the colour of their skin and more to do with which city they heralded from.
If I get to catch this crook anywhere near this palace I’ll make sure I’ll stop his thyrsus-thrashing and his hair-waving once and for all, by separating his torso from his head. 241
it seems to me as if the Thyrsus is a phallic symbol which would be fitting for Dionysus as he is a fertility god.
Now Leto did not give Apollo, bearer of the golden blade, her breast
Is there a difference between Gods who were breastfed and those brought up exclusively on Ambrosia? Or, was it custom for all gods to forego breastfeeding, even if their mother was mortal?
because Leto with the lovely tresses was soon to bear a son faultless and strong.
faultless? isn't he like one of the most problematic gods haha
But this saying I fear, and I will not hide it from you, Leto. They say that Apollo will be one that is very haughty and will greatly lord it among gods and men all over the fruitful earth. [70] Therefore, I greatly fear in heart and spirit that as soon as he sees the light of the sun, he will scorn this island —for truly I have but a hard, rocky soil —and overturn me and thrust me down with his feet in the depths of the sea; then will the great ocean wash deep above my head for ever
Why would Apollo be upset that someone built him a temple? Or am I misunderstanding what's going on here
They [the Olympians] clashed with a mighty tumult, earth rang, and heaven echoed with sound like a trumpet blast
I wonder if there's an etiological myth for this! Like, if there was an awful thunderstorm, would people of the era attribute it to the gods warring amongst themselves?
But white-armed Hera saw, and called to Athene: ‘Aegis-bearing Atrytone, child of Zeus, that gad-fly is helping Ares, the mortals’ bane, through the ranks and away from the battle. After her: quickly!’
Why is Hera so loyal to Athena, when her actual son is Ares?
You share your mother Hera’s intolerable, headstrong spirit; she too will scarcely obey my word.
that 2 birds 1 stone action though !!!
ambrosia
wonder what ambrosia tastes like lol
Book V:4-6 The tale of Cupid and Psyche: the mysterious husband
WOW! So similar to the Norwegian tale "east of the sun, west of the moon" about an invisible husband that comes into a girl's room each night. It must be based off of Cupid and Psyche. It's also similar to Beauty and the Beast. Cool to see all these stories have the same origin.
Book V:4-6 The tale of Cupid and Psyche: the mysterious husband
WOW! So similar to the Norwegian tale "east of the sun, west of the moon" about an invisible husband that comes into a girl's room each night.
Though the elder two were extremely pleasing, still it was thought they were only worthy of mortal praise; but the youngest girl’s looks were so delightful, so dazzling, no human speech in its poverty could celebrate them, or even rise to adequate description.
This mini-story is really similar to Snow White! Venus mirrors (no pun intended) the evil queen who can't stand to know there's someone more beautiful than she. She sends Cupid (similar to the Hunter) to curse Psyche, but he ends up falling in love with her. In some versions of Snow White, there is no prince, but a hunter instead!
She saw, she marked his irresistible wound, she saw his thigh fading in a welter of blood,
Piercing yet beautiful imagery
Cytherea
Is this another name for Aphrodite? If so, why this name instead of her more popular one?
I cry woe for Adonis, the beauteous Adonis is dead.
I can definitely see how this poem is meant to be sung, especially with these repeated lines - perhaps a chorus of people would sing this!
fragrant
The word fragrant is used a lot in this hymn, and seems characteristic to Eleusis. Why was this chosen? And what does fragrance represent in this context?
if it had not been for the heedlessness of well-girded Metaneira,
I like how the author calls her 'heedless' and briefly shames her for interrupting Demeter when in reality she's looking at an old woman dip her son into fire - obviously she'd be upset. Especially, when the goddess has gone above and beyond to conceal herself....
The one with the delicate ankles
if my goddess doesn't have delicate ankles, i dont want her!!!
There was no medicinal food or ointment or any other mixture, so they just wasted away till they died. Then I showed them how to read the future and which of their dreams would come true. I have explained to them the meanings of incomprehensible voices and the meanings of cross roads. Then I distinguished clearly for them those of the birds with hooked talons that are sinister from those whose nature is auspicious; how they lived, their mutual loves, hatreds and how they pair with one another.
It seems like Prometheus did a lot for human civilization. So, is there a general negative attitude towards Zeus' brutal punishment against him? Or do people understand that Zeus just had 'no choice' but to chain Prometheus up?
If only he had sent me below the Earth, down into Hades who accepts the dead, down into endless Tartaros, tied with steel that cannot be loosened! At least then neither god nor anyone else would mock me for my suffering. Instead, now, like a scarecrow in the wind, a miserable creature, I must entertain my enemies with my suffering.
His claim that he'd much rather be in Tartaros instead of his current situation is a huge statement - Tartaros is unmeasurable torture and really puts into perspective the pain he's feeling.
Then, Zeus’ winged hound, the ravenous eagle will be coming uninvited all day long to tear off pieces of your liver to feed his savage appetite until your liver turns black. And don’t expect an end to this agony until some god appears to take upon himself your suffering and volunteers to descend into the dark realm of Death in the depths of Tartarus.
ouch!
to put inside her an intent that is doglike and a temperament that is stealthy.
queen! lol
For that reason he [Zeus] devised plans that were to be baneful for humankind.
I can't understand why Zeus would punish mankind because of something Prometheus did. I know Prometheus is a link between the 2 worlds, but how involved were humans in his deceit of Zeus?
But the woman took the great lid off the jar 95 and scattered what was inside.
Really cool to see that stark parallels between Pandora's jar and Eve in the garden of eden. I wonder if those tales were created concurrently or independent of one another. I suppose the geographies where the 2 belief systems arose weren't too far away from each other. Also, not sure which is older.
Just as to mortal men high-thundering Zeus gave women as an evil, accomplices of painful toils: another evil too did he provide instead of good; to wit whosoever shunning marriage and the ills that women work, declines to marry, and has come to old age pernicious, 605 through want of one to tend his final days; he lives not, it is true, in lack of subsistence, but, when he is dead, distant kindred divide his possessions; while to whomsoever, on the other hand, the lot of marriage shall have fallen, and he has had a good wife congenial to his heart, to him then forever ill contends with good to be with him:
Here, I think Hesiod is discussing the man's 'dilemma' that came up in the lectures. The dilemma is a hatred of women and all their 'evils', but the understanding that they must marry a woman and bare children.
placed around her about her head lovely garlands fresh-budding with meadow-flowers
cute!!!
For here, on the one hand, he deposited the flesh and entrails with rich fat on the hide, having covered it with the belly of the ox; and there, on the other hand, he laid down, 540 having well disposed them with subtle craft, the white bones of the ox, covering them with white fat.
Did Prometheus, being a trickster, genuinely think that Zeus would fall for something like this? And if so, were petty tricks of this nature often something the gods would fall victim to? Either way, it's cool to see the difference in ideas of omniscience between the Abrahamic God and ancient greek gods.
Pallas Athene
never heard this name for her before!
Zeus, who sits on high and dwells in the aether, swallow her down suddenly
According to the secondary source for Unit 2, one of the reasons Zeus was so successful was because he swallowed Metis and she lived inside him, giving him her wisdom. It's definitely problematic of him to devour his wife, but it's nice to know the Ancient Greeks recognized the capability of women. Just goes to show that you can't paint all pre-modern civilizations with the same misogynistic brush!
And there were voices in all his dreadful heads which uttered every kind of sound unspeakable; for at one time they made sounds such that the gods understood, but at another, the noise of a bull bellowing aloud in proud ungovernable fury; and at another, the sound of a lion, relentless of heart; and at anothers, sounds like whelps, wonderful to hear; and again, at another, he would hiss, so that the high mountains re-echoed
Given Hesiod's description of Typhon's physical appearance and his means of communication, it seems as if this monster is half human, half wild animal. Perhaps Typhon (and maybe other monsters in Greek myth) represent a transition between man and beast; a hybridity that may be cast negatively? For example, Harpies have a negative connotation, as do Sirens - both hybrids!
But when the gods saw him rushing at heaven, they made for Egypt (Links to an external site.) in flight, and being pursued they changed their forms into those of animals.1
I know there has been mention of Egyptian gods intertwining with Ancient Greek myth like when Io travelled to Egypt and bore Epaphus who then became an Egyptian god. However, I'm not sure if this figure exists in Egyptian myth as well. Regardless, my real question is; was any part of the shift to animal form because gods of different civilizations may have had turf wars and couldn't be in their true form when travelling?
From the thighs downward he had huge coils of vipers, which when drawn out, reached to his very head and emitted a loud hissing. His body was all winged1
I cant even imagine this!
he culled the simple himself,
what does "the simple" mean? Syntax-wise, it appears to be an object of some sort. At first I thought this was a typo, but it appears twice. I looked into it briefly and "a simple" could be a medicinal herb which may make sense because it says that Zeus culled (picked) it.
This was the Golden Age that, without coercion, without laws, spontaneously nurtured the good and the true.
According to Ovid, humans were initially good and true, and flaws were something that came to taint us afterwards. Each culture has their own understanding about the inherent good or bad in all of us. Perhaps Ovid's version can tell us more about what Greco-Roman people thought of mankind.
He had barely separated out everything within fixed limits when the constellations that had been hidden for a long time in dark fog began to blaze out throughout the whole sky. And so that no region might lack its own animate beings, the stars and the forms of gods occupied the floor of heaven, the sea gave a home to the shining fish, earth took the wild a
Ovid's writing is simply beautiful
When whichever god it was had ordered and divided the mass
The purpose of creation stories is often to explain the origin of the universe, so it's interesting that the author is being deliberately vague with which god organized the earth and cosmos.
upbringing at the udder of the goat which was named Amaltheia
for the king of gods, Zeus was brought up on very earthly means. My question is, did the Greco-Roman peoples respect and adore him more because of their common connection with a geography he and the humans both shared?
his close association with the bees
I love bees!
And the Nymphs nurtured the child on a mixture of honey and milk
Milk and honey seems like a universal symbol for a land's richness, wealth, success. This appears in the Hebrew Bible to describe Israel's opulence as well, so it only makes sense that the King of gods would be brought up on such a diet.
Persephone.
I love her name!
But by himself, from his head, he produced glancing-eyed Tritonis [Athena], 925 fierce, strife-stirring, army-leading, unsubdued, and awesome, to whom dins, and wars, and battle are a delight.
I really like the differences between Aphrodite and Athena, depending on which male body part they came from. Aphrodite emerged from genitals, so she takes on the role of 'the admired'. Athena came from a male brain so she takes on stereotypically male traits like 'strife-stirring' or 'army-leading'
because she emerged out of the genitals. And Eros accompanied her and fair Desire followed her, when first she was born, and came into the host of the gods. And from the beginning this honor has she, and this part has she obtained by lot among men and immortal gods, 205 the amorous converse of maidens, their smiles and wiles, their sweet delights, their love, and blandishment.
It is incredibly interesting that all of Aphrodite's positive attributes (such as, the way women adore her and how she brings about smiles) are attributed to her emergence from male genitals, as if her father's genitalia somehow 'gifted' her these traits