- Oct 2020
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Martin Berger’s theory of how the media often featured photographs of black victims to draw out the sympathy of white people in order to pave the way of civil rights legislation is useful because it sheds light on the difficult problem of this “white savior complex” that in turn downplays and limits the extent for race reform
Well put
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
The way a person thinks, or a person viewpoint, in a certain topic can direct the way they tell a story. As in media alot of what we read may be true stories but the way the person telling the story can get different views. Every writer has a secret duty in writing, to appeal to a certain audience. The audience may not always agree on the images we believe is right. And thats where an individual’s personal preference comes into play.
Say more about this. How does this apply to what Martin Berger says in the reading
-
But then on the other side I feel as though you as the viewer or person looking for information find what you seek.
I'm not sure what you mean here.
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Many Blacks made huge sacrifices in order for their voices to be heard.These Documentations of photos and magazines by white media actually gives us a glimpse of how they were viciously taunted and mistreated by whites. These depictions still resonate with many people today. Instead of turning against the black community they aid them in their protest for equality. This type of inhumane treatment is not acceptable by many and sought out to be unlawful in the supposed land of the free. What many see is a contradiction in the constitution and come in favor in the defense of the African American communities. When seeing the way Blacks were and are handled by whites many actually sympathize and feel the need to help they know this is wrong. The whites tried to Make the Blacks look weak and dismantled but in reality they are now seen as heroes of freedom and Civil rights movements.
Yes, but also consider what the photographs don't show: black civic actions like peaceful protests or using other means to change policy.
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Oppressive and racist institutions still shape the material conditions of all POCs today. This also goes back to Martin Berger’s theory of how the media often featured photographs of black victims in order to attract sympathy from whites and to be able to cover the path of the civil rights legation of people not only of color but also everyone’s. But at some time, that law did not work or was not taken into account because whites had more power than people of color. the photographs could impede efforts to enact or even imagine reforms that threatened the racial power of whites all because they needed a more generalized display of the opposition. The black are shown as victims of violence and are shown as defenseless people. Although it was a good move to show the public these images in order to spread the word about the civil rights movement. images of protesters beaten by the police can still be seen in some current media. Rather than raise the voice of blacks and were able to protest together to them ultimately, they discredit what the movement stood for and now what the Black Lives Matter movement stands for today.
Interesting thoughts here. What kinds of images would work better?
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
I agree with Berger’s argument about racial etiquette because he was aware of what was going on during the civil rights era. The black folks were victims during a peaceful movement. They were protecting themselves from getting hit or killed. The media platform gives white audiences complimentary viewing of what’s going with the situation and not sugar-coating it. It brings people together as a community. For example, what happens to George Floyd being murdered by the officer began the black lives matter movement bringing everyone together.
Good point, but Berger is arguing that this portrayal of black people as victims has the unintended consequence of portraying them as politically weak.
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
In” Ways of Seeing”,part 3 Berger reports that advertising can make us richer in some ways by encouraging everyone in consumer, to buy more to change themselves and their lives. Even if the money we spend makes us poor. It creates glamour by showing people who have significantly changed and generating consumer envy. Also, glamour is a new concept for people in today’s life. It is for those who cannot accept that they are unattractive. Therefore, the charm has a certain commercial value, which is very important for advertising. Berger also explains the difference between what oil painting shows and what advertising photography shows. Their are many commonalities between the two, but one is should what their emotion are like when they paint and the other is commerce. It also reveals that society is changing constantly. People are no longer pursuing pure art, but more pursuing their charm and more wealth.
Well put!
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
n audience.. In the media
Connect these two ideas a little more. How are they related?
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
According to Berger, Publicity is another language that influences common people to live a glamourous life. They make scene after scene to establish an idea about a product that this product is not only changing consumer’s life but also their relationship. They established that glamorous is for everybody. Even though few people can afford these glamorous lifestyles. The reason for this situation is to attract the consumer and they will buy more products to lead a glamorous lifestyle. These are the major part of their business which help them to be rich. Publicity is significant, not only it is all around us, but also most people want to be envied and attractive in this society that is called for moving democratic.
Yes!
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Nowadays, women have the platform where they post whatever they want. Few women are happily post their pictures as they want and few are not.
Can you think of any good examples?
-
(WoMen)
Nice title!
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
The advantages of using the mode, “entering the conversation” that its gives another way to think of view, and it also helps to develop listening skills and understand to other views of thinking.
Yes!
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
According to Berner, Publicity pictures stimulate consumer imagination and feeling to buy things. it purses us, makes us buying product, and feels more richer even though consumer are poor. It is significant. It is process of generating glamour because publicity attracted people attention to buy things. if there is not publicity, consumer will not but things. publicity encourage, stimulate and inspire to get those things. publicity promote the marketing in this modern society
Yes!
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
According to video “way of seeing ” John Berger cites that discussion of nudity women pianting and picture .Berger addressed different point of view about women nudity art and picture. he mentioned phenomenon by using European nude women painting. one the one hand nude picture shows that sexuality, ideal. on the other hand, naked painting implies that women’s timid and guilty, still, most of companies are using women’ s picture for advertising and promotion. those picutres shows that women power and confidence. women picture are always judge by men. however, it prove that beautiful women picture or painting attracted men ‘s attention .negatively or positively
Thought-provoking points here
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
The biggest difference is that publicity hopes people believe that what they buy is not just a thing but also a way of life. In my opinion, oil painting shows the owner’s wealth and lifestyle. Publicity also uses the images to reveal people’s pursuit of wealth and lifestyle. These differences are important because the eras are different. With the change of times, people who pursue wealth and lifestyle become not only those who can own oil paintings. Publicity photography is a form of marketing, but it uses a similar way with oil painting to give people the image that they can change themselves and pursue their dreams by buying things.
Yes!
-
Publicity is the process of generating glamour.
Yes!
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
In this era when more and more people are chasing gender equality,
This is a really interesting angle on this question.
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
The reason that oil painting and advertising images are different because one has a financial agenda while the other has an egotistical one. The paintings show what the person has already. The paintings were basically a mirror or reminder of they’re wealth. However, the images show that if you have “this” you will be worth more. The image preys on the fear that people have of them not being enticing. It implies that the consumer is worthy or good enough if they have the product advertised. Ultimately the difference between the oil painting and the image reveals that the production of advertisements is for economic gain.
Yes
-
.The images influence consumers by showing the illusion that by buying this object will change your life from what it is. This also applies to the relationships you have with people. The idea is that if this possession is obtained will make you seem different from others as well. The reason that this is significant is because of the direct correlation to how important it is for people to have glamour. John Berger states that those who do not have glamour become nonexistent. Advertisers understand the need people in society have to be seen or acknowledged.
Yes!
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Most can agree that throughout history the media has played a big part in how women present themselves. John states that in the paintings women had to look a certain way for them to be valued or considered beautiful. Although the issue of women having to appeal to the media image still exists, it is becoming less important. Fortunately, it is becoming widely popular for women to love their bodies the way they are. Women of all shapes and sizes are starting to have dominion over there appearance.
Can you think of examples of this new kind of image making?
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Publicity motivates people to fight for more income to solve their anxiety about money.
I would say that advertisement entices people to achieve a lifestyle
-
According to “Ways of Seeing’’, Berger says that publicity is to give people suggestions to buy things, and convince people that they can reach an enviable state after purchasing a certain product. Publicity caters to consumers’ potential demand for purchasing goods and arouses consumers’ yearning and pursuit. Through a large number of advertisements, the potential needs of consumers are stimulated or the actual needs are strengthened, which will stimulate consumers’ buying behavior.
Yes!
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Berger argues about women nudes depicted in Renaissance paintings are images that please and obey men. I agree that men were the main force in society in the past. Women’s duties are to have children, take care of the family and obey their husbands. However, today’s female images are more independent and confident. Women pursue gender equality and no longer blindly cater to men. Nowadays, the images of women in life, advertisements or magazines are becoming more colorful. The image of women is not limited to the aesthetics of men. Some people may think that women are still pleasing men in magazines and advertisements today. But my point is that maintaining beauty is a mentality that both men and women have. Women showing their charms are also pleasing themselves and making themselves happy. In addition, the images of women in the media are no longer passive. On the other hand, Berger described that sexual behavior at that time was formulated within a framework. However, today’s sexual behavior and female roles are considered free.
Very interesting analysis here. Can you think of examples?
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Publicity is the act of showing what we can have if we buy it. it makes people believe that they need these products in their life and if they have it, it will make them feel that they are special and become part of them. This is significant because it makes them acknowledge that they are part of that group.
Yes!
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
I believe Women nowadays have a lot more power over their images in the media.t
Can you think of examples?
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
According to Berger publicity affects consumers by persuading them into believing that buying this product would make their life better . It shows how good the people who bought the product lives has turned out and wants them want to have the same or better experience from from what they have seen. ” Publicity proposes to each of us in a consumer society that we change ourselves or our lives by buying something more. This “more” that publicity persuades us will make us in some way richer, even though we will be poorer by having spent our money.” These goods would make someone feel good for getting a produce that makes them seem rich. Publicity is significant because it means good public relations which equals good business it is also significant because it makes people attracted to what you are selling. People liked to be envied or have a lot of attention so when they see something that will make them be watched the would get it.
Yes
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Even though women have gained some freedom over have they are viewed they are still being displayed for the male eyes.
Interesting viewpoint. Can you think of examples?
-
Berger shows that advertising and oil painting may be the same but there is still a big difference. in the sample publication that the consumer needs the product for their life to improve. But in the ole painting it shows the difference of the product and the interpretations and failure of that said product. This is important because it gives the consumer that he does not need any product. over time changes in people seeking wealth and lifestyle become not only those who may own oil paintings.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean here.
-
.According to Berger, the publication is implied by the consumer that he needs this product because if he has it, his life will change in a drastic way and let him know. This can be made more influential with the help in some companies and businesses. This helps to improve the product making it more efficient. other people bought the product and say that this has worked for them other people buy it because they think it will be the same for example in the case of some prunings they assume that they use the product on the skin so that their skin looks clean and beautiful to that people lied to them to buy your product. the publication lies to the consumer to buy something that is not necessary but makes him feel richer.
Yes
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
According to Gerald Graff and Cathy Birkenstein, it is said that writers should use “entering the conversation” as a model in their writing. There are multiple advantages for writers that comes from using this model. For example it makes communication easier which allows someone to fully understand a point in a situation, as well as being able to clearly get your point across.”These templates do not dictate the content of what you say.. only suggest a way of formatting how you say it. Once you begin to feel comfortable with the template in this book, you will be able to improvise creatively on them to fit new situations and purpose”. This template helps writer to get familiarized with ways to respond to arguments and further the writers creative thinking .
Yes!
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
d oil painting will be something that was there something you could really have an image. Compare to the publicity they want you to buy or make you feel mandatory to buy. They both are different but have almost the same meaning.
Yes, this is the distinction Berger makes.
-
Advertising makes consumers want to buy things they don’t need but will pursue the consumer in many ways to make them think it will change their lives and the way they living if they buy what’s advertising. This is significant because all this brand and publicity are making these people believe things that are not really going to change unless you have money for it, it will make the publicity true. If not you will have the product but living the same.
Yes!
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
As today’s generation women stand up for themself and yes we do get judge for things we post on social media like a picture showing some skin but now you don’t get judge or glare by men only also by women’s. some have good comments others don’t. As what to john Berger says’ in the video “women who are not judge are normal and the women who are they are the prize”. I can tell men only liked to judge the ones they like and find attracted to the women who did these paintings. Women now control what audience they want to have nothing compared to the renaissance painting when they were used for pleasure and the male gaze. Yes, there are women that do it for pleasure but that’s if they are consent and want to do it. Time has changed and things are different. I feel a woman will always be judge no matter the time we are i
Interesting points!
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
The advantages of using this model are that it will help have a better interaction and having a better conversation. To have a better understanding of using different phrases and using them in your everyday work or a thesis in your paper works. Sometimes as a new student or anyone in general we have trouble starting an essay or any kind of paperwork or trying to find a way to be involved with others and these advantages are a good way to have in mind.
Yes!
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
There are lot of pictures and drawing everyday. The way art shows their meaning through the way it draws. Photo and drawing mostly works same way in which they made us think and feel the way it’s shown. Art and pictures are everywhere. As most of pictures are to show difference in us and them(models). As you can see models advertising new products. With their picture they show us we can be like them. In old times as picture is drawing and have not used models.
This is interesting but could you develop it a bit more?
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
As there are different ways to see a picture. When man look at the pic they see pic as how every women’s are, but from women’s perspective it is not the way they really are. They think of it as not themselves and isn’t showing every women as they are. I think it is true that women’s have different ways to express themselves with their looks, though I’m not saying man doesn’t. Women’s cares deeply of their image and how they are seen by others.
But, do women have more control of their images now?
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
When we compare oil paintings to publicity photography, both give us a totally different message. As we saw in the video, the oil painting promotes women’s beauty but most of the pictures contained women are without clothes. Artists used women in the pictures as an object that encourage sexuality but on the other hand, publicity pictures show the reality of life that is very important to see what is going on around the world, they truly show the true story of some unlucky peoples’ life.
Oil paintings convey what the patron or the commissioner of the artwork has; whereas, advertisements try to show consumers the life they could have.
-
According to Berger, “publicity” is one way an owner promotes their business to earn more money and expand it.
Yes, but he looks at this much more from the perspective of the consumer.
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Oil painting represents the reality that artists have lived and shows us what it is like to live, but propaganda does the opposite. It creates glamour and makes people think and dream of changing and becoming like them. It is something that some people dream about, capture on camera, and create a perfect life through some design. In propaganda, they act and manipulate images to achieve their ends, but in painting, their nature is to have no action, no darkness, and what they enjoy.
Yes!
-
According to Berg, “propaganda” suggests that each of us in a consumer society change ourselves or our lives by buying more. Advertising is the act of persuading and informing others of a better way of life. It is precisely the people and objects in the images we see that are placed purposefully and produce the desired results that we will make purchases to improve our lifestyle and make it more desirable.
Yes!
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Media plays an important role in creating social norms, because, in the current culture, there are various forms of media, including advertising, television, and movies, almost everywhere. For example, gender roles exist only because society as a whole chooses to accept them, but they are perpetuated by the media. In today’s female image, the female image is very important, adding a lot of colors.
Does social media factor into this at all?
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
i think women have control over their images. Women should have the power what to do with they body or images. Now you see women of all shapes and sizes being them self.
This is really interesting. I'm wondering if you could elaborate more, though.
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Therefore, the charm has a certain commercial value, which is very important for advertising.
Interesting turn of phrase
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
I’ve believed that today’s women representatives objectify them in a similar as the women depicted in the Renaissance paintings Berger argues about. He considers nudity an art form. To be naked is to be seen by others without knowing you. However, In European nude paintings, this is not considered art. The video mentions the development and changes of nude art in different periods. For example, in the book of Genesis, Adam and Eve did not see each other’s naked bodies until they had eaten the fruit, so the naked bodies were created in the observer’s mind. Then there is the striking fact that women have been subservient to men, seeing them as agents of god. It wasn’t until medieval art that nudity began to become secularized. The mirror became a symbol of female vanity. Also, the video mentions another mythological theme in the Bible, in which men judge beauty and not beauty by looking at a woman’s naked body. Moreover, in Europe 10 oil paintings, most of the nudity is intended to please the male audience owner. Even today, the way women dress plays the role they want to play. Self-image is more based on how other people perceive you. Even the image of women in the media is still determined by the gaze of men. However, in today’s female images, the role of sex seems to have undergone some subtle changes. They no longer think of men as narcissistic and think of men and women as narcissistic, but they feel differently. A woman’s jealousy is how she feels about herself, not just what other people think of her. We could even say it’s a product of human interaction, a product that builds a sense of self-worth. They just want to see the image they want and may even be ready to become liberators and find their true selves.
Great points!
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Berger demonstrates that publicity and oil painting can appear different however there is a big difference. In publicity, the vendor is trying to convince the consumer that they need that product in their life for it to be better however in oil painting it shows the reality and imperfections of the item. It is confident and doesn’t need any attractiveness distracting the consumer into anything else. The consumer knows that they need this product and isn’t being tricked into it.
Yes!
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Nowadays women have social media where they can post whatever they feel like it but behind the scenes of that photo is a big hassle. Women make sure that they take the right photo that makes them appear confident. This photo is just to please their audience which is her friends or followers
This is interesting. So you would say women only somewhat experience being in control of their images?
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Whereas the purpose of the advertising is for us to purchase what’s being marketed, so if we don’t incorporate that reality, we have nothing, therefore we are nothing.
Yes
-
1.Berger states that It influences consumers by telling them that this is desirable, this is what gives you value. After buying the product consumers will feel their lives have reached a prestigious status. Its significant because it tells us that without this product, we are the ones who are inferior. That in order to be idolized and enviable, you must manifest that (glamour) artificial reality into your world
Yes!
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
What Berger stated in the Ways of Seeing still remains in our society, but to a lesser degree. Women are still being objectified, seen as objects to please the male viewer, but due to the influence of feminism, there has been a rise in the power of ones own sexuality amongst women. Women now, are more in control of how they’re displayed and you can see the change in visuals today. You’re now seeing a variety of female body structures, not only the “ideal” according to ones subjective point of view. Women are in control of their Image whether its paintings or photos. Their intent is to embrace the power behind their nakedness, redefine the “ideal” female body by showing recognition to the differences in women. When it’s in a mans possession, it’s objectification. Men are the culprit of women being objectified. Women see how the man idolizes and praises their nude, it tells the women that her body gives her value and she is to serve the desires of men. Women do self objectify, but its reason is for the man, because they see how men give it importance and make it significant in their identity.
Very good and nuanced points here.
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
These differences are important because the oil picture represents how people should be happy with what they have and who they are. The publicity pictures show a fantasy world, one with the desires of a consumer.
Yes, this is an important distinction.
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
believe that this quote somewhat applies to modern women. When they post a photo to social media, they can customize it to fit their personality, or what they want other people to think. If they are looking for attention or already have an audience, they still might have to satisfy them. In the media, women can still be influenced by the male gaze. Most brands are aware of this as they may often use beautiful women in their advertisements to appeal to their audience.
But, are women more in control of their own images now?
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
When you state that “As he compares oil painting to publicity (advertising) photography, Berger argues that oil painting “showed what the owner was already enjoying among his possessions and way of life;” “it enhanced his view of himself as he already was.” Whereas publicity pictures, “appeal to a way of life that we aspire to or think we aspire to.”” it allows us to compare why these differences are important. They are important because even though oil paintings and advertising photography are similar in the way that it shows a glamorized version of reality, in the past aristocrats were born into riches, whereas the poor or working class did not usually have access to these works and did not have a chance to rise above their status and obtain them. Whereas now, we are in a democratic society, in theory anyone can rise above their class to reach a higher status. This in turn proves adverts to be more persuading and able to make us envious, by suggesting that we can change our status just by purchasing their products. According to John Berger “The things in which publicity sells are in themselves neutral, just objects and so they have to be made glamorous by being inserted into context which are exotic enough to be arresting but not close enough to us to offer a threat.” The essence of Berger’s argument is that production of images for publicity is highly thought out and planned, so that the images can affect us deep within our core, subliminally, to the point where it manipulates us without us knowing.
This is a really good account to Berger's argument.
-
In John Berger’s Ways of Seeing Episode 4, he observes that advertising images are all around us and affect us in ways we might not even realize. He states “We change ourselves by buying more.” In other words, Berger is saying that advertisement images are promising consumers that if we buy their products, we will become members of elite society. This is significant because, Berger asserts, it persuades us and makes us covet objects and lifestyles that we don’t have.
Yes!
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Unfortunately, I do not have the answers to these questions, but it further supports my idea that women are still depersonalized. I
It's good that you are still mulling over these questions because this is a complex topic.
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
i agree that learning how to look at artwork can help us analyze other situations because it forces us to look at the detail of the artwork. We are then able to notice many different things about the artwork, such as what is in the artwork and what is lacking. It also helps us interpret what the artist is trying to show us, by looking at the point of view and the subjects of the artwork. All these things can help us in real life situations by helping us be more detailed oriented people.
Good points!
-
When using the They Say/I Say format in writing, some of the advantages are strengthening the writer’s critical thinking skills, bringing them up to college level. It prevents flat writing and answers the “so what?” and “who cares?” questions. You can also use this tool to expand your writing and even help with creativity. It also helps you smoothly and clearly enter your opinion into a discussion or debate.
Yes!
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
here’s a certain liberty to women being sexualized that represents more female empowerment and not so much insecurity or something for men to look at. Women now have control on how and for what they are viewed.
Say more about how much this difference changes what Berger says
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
ore importantly the take away from this being that we become more attention to detailed which is of outmost value in everyone’s daily life.
Yes!
-
According to Gerald Graff and Cathy Birkenstein, writers should use the model of “entering the conversation” in their writing because it creates a habit of listening to others opinions , while making sure that you are analyzing the topic from very different or similar perspectives. it creates the advantage of understanding and maybe solidifying what you want to contribute to a conversation while also acknowledging the differences or similarities that people partaking in the conversation have. furthermore it forces everyone to think on a deeper level actively because what another might say during the conversation can change your initial outlook.
Yes!
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Representations of woman today are objectified in the same or similar way that Berger argues about woman in renaissance paintings, woman are still constantly objectified. Woman are more sexualized now than being seen as a form of art to look at. Social media is a platform for woman to express themselves and be seen, models are all over but are more seen as sexual beings instead of art like they should be, even when not intended to be seen in such a way men still sexualize and objectify woman. Woman do and are able to express themselves as they want to and have control over how they are seen none the less. Media is still influenced by the male gaze, woman are used as a sexual display to attract more viewers in music, movies and magazines.
Great point!
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
I do agree for it helps us view every day things in a different perspective. for example, in a portrait you see details but you don’t notice every single detail. Or the saying “look at the bigger picture” for we don’t see everything within the picture or what the artist is trying to express through it.
Great point!
-
The advantages of the model “entering the conversation” are it helps to listen and acknowledge anther persons idea or opinion and respond without offending the person. It helps to identify another persons perspective on different ideas.
Yes!
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
2 – The differences between oil paintings and publicity are important because it gives us a better understanding of reality. Glamour did not exist during the oil paintings because the oil paintings shows what the person already he. It was not being promoted into making you think you need it in order for your life to be better as a whole. It showed what people already had without promoting it. Publicity on the other hand makes people believe they need a certain product in order to be worthy and envied.
Yes well put
-
According to Berger in “Ways of seeing, Part 4”, publicity (advertising) influences consumers to change ourselves or their lives by buying something more. Doing so “publicity” persuades us to feel richer, even though we will be poorer due to the fact that we spent our money. Publicity promotes the illusion if we buy this product, our life and oneself will change drastically. This causes people to feel like they need that product in order to feel like they will be a “better” version of themselves and better their life. Publicity plays on fear of not being wanted, desirable, of being unenviable. Not too mention Publicity presents people who have used said product and how their life changed after using it. This causes you to envy those people which then leads to glamour, an attractive quality that may make people seem appealing. This is significant because publicity is promoting these products, making people believe that it will have such a significant impact on their life when in reality it won’t. People fall for it and end up pooper/asking for loans in order to obtains these products which are being false advertised. Not only that, but publicity uses peoples insecurities in order to make people feel like they need that product in order to be “beautiful”. Publicity affects our anxiety’s about money as well, making us feel like we need so much money to be able to buy all these products with exaggerative promises.
Yes, this is an excellent account of Berger's main point.
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
. It reveals to us that production of images is not only an art, but also are tools for publicity in order to make money from consumers.
Yes
-
He claims that publicity is producing glamour.
A very important aspect of his argument. "Glamor" doesn't exist before we see advertisements; it is shaped and defined by advertisements.
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
minds and even our dreams. These differences are essential because oil painting shows people’s history; their wealth is one of the uppermost importance characteristics. What they have and enjoyed around them were symbols of status and reputation. Simultaneously, publicity reflects more on the consumers’ wants and gestures of feeling glamorous one desires to have in their lives to enjoy for the consumer to achieve having them. The indicated reveals that people can have anxiety about money and that money is magical, but you continue to be the person you are having all of these things. The dream of later tonight offered by advertising uses imagery to manipulate the consumer to have a good time drinking alcohol. The pleasures of being surrounded by friends and your better half, talking, and laughing, you feel the happiest in your life. But you are left feeling the same way you did yesterday. The difference you have spent money going to a lounge and purchasing alcoholic beverages. Therefore, the short period you encountered did not completely fulfill your needs.
Yes, well put
-
According to Berger, “publicity “images influence consumers by stimulating our memories to desire to buy products and become models in the photographs. Our daily lives surround these pictures. The more you visually see them, the greater is the need to consume them. It is significant because when we see photos in magazines or on billboards, these illustrations stay in our minds and even our dreams.
Yes
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Burger explains that the oil paintings were a depiction of what was already the reality. Publicity is the art of capitalism and The oil paintings were the quality of life of wealthy owners.
Or, put another way, oil paintings displayed the wealth the patron/commissioner of the artwork wanted to flaunt and current advertising shows us what we "could" have.
-
According to Berger, publicity makes us want to purchase more items in order to make us feel more rich and valued when in fact we are wasting our money on items we don’t need.
Yes
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Oil paintings on the other hand never showed what the subject didn’t have, they are always drawn grounded to their own material possessions. It just comes to show how superficial and manufactured advertising is.
Yes
-
He considers publicity as the manufacturing of glamour. Publicity influences consumers by alluring them with this glamour. This is rendered more effective because of the nature of our society. Under capitalism we are encouraged to buy, so we can keep the economy going. Often advertisements show a product along side a model, often seen as happy or content. This is all an attempt to persuade the public perception of the product. The product is the source of the subjects happiness. There for it too will be your source of happiness. This is all significant because this implies that publicity is meant to appeal rather than actually deliver.
Well put
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Advertisements can impersonate paintings and other works of art to portray their products in a different light.
Yes
-
According to Berger “publicity’’ or what we know it as advertisements are constantly all around us on walls and screens especially so today with how far technology has come. It shows us an alternative way of life and its being jammed into our thoughts at all times. We might not remember every advertisement we see but in the moment, we take it in. These constant simulations put us in a different place somewhere else out of out own reality something closer to dreams. This “Publicity” or advertisements influences consumers that we should change ourselves or how we live for the better by buying something more. They want to show consumers that you are in fact getting richer by buying said thing even though you are getting poorer by having spent your money. These advertisements portray people who have purchased said product and are now better off for doing so. Your envy of those people is what constitutes glamour, and publicity is the process of manufacturing glamour.
Yes, and I'm glad you brought in technological changes.
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Berger argued that an oil painting often highlights features that the artist is confident in, as opposed to advertising, which often uses societal pressure to sell a dream to consumers. The difference between the two is drastic, I believe Berger compared the two to furthermore explain how the production of images for publicity, abuse the realities & struggles of the public. In today’s world, knowing the difference Berger was referring to, is very important because it reminds us that we don’t need to change ourselves or our lives to feel confident. With Instagram models advertising health & wellness products, or an ad of men in suits telling you how you can make a fortune from your couch, we are constantly told that if we feed into a certain fabricated image It’ll somehow fill us with happiness or make us superior. But It’s short-lived, because like Berger said “The things which publicity sells are in themselves neutral” which means these things we’re being sold, mean nothing
Yes, well put
-
In accordance with Berger, publicity sells consumers a dream. Berger says “Advertising is effective precisely because it feeds upon the real.” This is significant because it shows how major corporations abuse real-life problems for financial gain. By highlighting the glamour of life within these advertisements, people often compare their beauty, wealth, etc. because it shows them a future where they’re living a more desirable life.
Yes
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
These differences are important because while oil paint seems unrealistic to many people and does not make them want to have that life, publicity pictures manipulates people to believe that if they spend a little money and acquire the products, they can because exactly like a model in the magazine or on the TV.
Yes
-
According to Berger, “publicity” influences people to believe that buying the products they are offering will make their life better, that they will be more glamorous and wanted by everyone. It is significant because even though it is clear that buying one product will not change their lives significantly, they believe that it will make them richer and they would be ambitious about the money, even take out a loan which make make them poorer than they are right now.
Yes
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
artist
Not the artist, the patron
-
According to Berger, advertising images influence consumers because of certain imagery that can be eye catching for many and can cause this sort of hypnotized trance in wanting the item in hopes that it betters ones life and gives more meaning to them and look forward to something that can fit their best interest as a human being and this is significant because it gives in to the idea of why advertising images influence consumers so much at the blink of an eye.
Yes
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Oil paintings are giving us a picture that shows what type of life a person was living. It showed the person as they already were. With publicity images, the whole picture is a fantasy. From the background to the clothes, each element of the image is carefully created, contorted, and fixed in a way that tells a specific story that goes with the product’s narrative. Everything in the dream-like photo invites us “to enter them but exclude us as we are now.”
Well put
-
Berger argues that “publicity” images depict an alternative way of life if we purchase this product. They promise if we modify ourselves or our lives by buying something more, this “more” will make us richer somehow. Their promise of wealth is significant because the reality is you will not be richer but poorer after spending your money. These images play on your fear of not being glamorous along with you wanting to be of a higher social status.
Yes!
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Walt Disney World’s “Where dreams come true”, puts out a call to the inner child in every adult. And the imagination of a child. It gives off the illusion that everything you wish for, can come true if you come and visit their amusement parks
Interesting example.
-
They use these “possession trophies” and put it in the face of those looking at the photo. In a sense playing with their mind to create a thought saying “This could be you”.
Yes, good point
-
In “ways of seeing”, Berger says that “publicity” influences its consumers by persuading them to believe that if they buy this specific item it will make them richer. Or will provide this feeling or glamour in their life.
Yes
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
The dream of a far away place to me was like a representation of reality and fantasy. We imagine a world of castles and chivalry. As we wander in Romantic scenery and extravagant places that we see displayed on advertisements. We want to belong so we feed into this fantasy and spend more and more. This makes us feel exuberant as we suddenly fit ourselves into the advertisements. We see another world where our reality is not so pleasurable. We are Nomads in this dream as we are trying to find our place in a world that is deceitful and violent. This dream is not what we desire so advertising and publicity helps us escape this reality we believe the more we have the more glamorous and desirable we will become.
Yes, and very potent for us in 2020!
-
Burger explains that these oil paintings were a depiction of what was already the reality of the Owners. They were wealthy and already part of a higher class society. Publicity is the art of capitalism and The oil paintings demonstrated in the film were the quality of life of the wealthy owners.
Yes!
-
According to Berger, publicity influences us to purchase more items in order to feel richer and more glamorous. In fact we are depleting our earnings on things we don’t necessarily need.
Yes
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Jonathan Culler defines the nature of literature that consists of five facets including literature as the the foregrounding of language, as aesthetic object, as intertextual or self-reflexive construct, as integration of language and as fiction. I believe artistry that infuses literature make s literary work unique and interesting. Writers utilize various art instruments to shape characters, to mirror real social phenomena or to convey certain emotions through precise, impressive, vivid and touching way. The higher level of artistry the work has, the more attractive degree towards readers it shows. The characteristically allegoric figures, scenes and contexts merge with magic manner of descriptions could turn to be a fantastic work, literature. As a result, existence of artistry in literature work could be an important part of soul of a work. Because humans naturally like something beautiful as well as they are always full of curiosity for unknown things. Compared with flat non-literary work such as reports, news and essay, texts influenced by artistry could inspire readers to explore more and think deeply. So humans could learn impressively from literary work through process of analyzing it and memorizing well it through elegant texts. Perhaps a classic could be created due to unforgettable artistry.
Very well put
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
In the beginning, I didn’t realize that there are so many kinds of literature. When I read this article, I found it interesting that literature is also divided into so many kinds. I think the article is very good. We can’t just look at it from a professional point of view. Some non-literary works will also record a lot of real things, so we must consider literature comprehensively.
But, what about the prompt? Which attribute of literature jumps out as you as most important?
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Some of the angles that I found most interested when used to define literature as described by Culler, was when he mentioned poetry and went on to describe the linguistic patterns. Things like rhyming, patterns, and the relation on words have to one another when conveying a certain message. Poetry is like a song without a melody, in my opinion the word play certainly creates a sound. Which heavily defines the ambiguous meaning that literature holds whether it be poetry or a fictional piece of writing.
Very well put
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
According to Kant and other theorists, for them, the aesthetic object is ‘purposiveness without purpose ‘ mean not all the stories are purposeful but can have a range of effects. Reading this I realize that the knowledge of beauty depends on the knowledge of objects in which beauty is experienced.
Say more about this. What about the political aspects of literature?
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
but this kind of fiction gives the readers some enjoyment and advantages which helps them to forget their cares. Also, Fiction literature gives us the chance to interpret events according to our imaginations. One of the defining features of literary fiction is the ability to create characters, as Culler says “Literary works refer to imaginary rather than historical individuals.” Another feature of the fictional literary work is that it is not limited to the time at which a literary work is written, but rather, it depends on the time in the work that the story revolves within. As Culler says “ but to a time in the poem, in the fictional world of its action.” Variety and difference in a work of fiction makes it valid for all times, not just the time in which they were published. And that is what makes it interesting!
Very well put
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
In the article What is literature and does it Matter? written by Jonathan Culler, I learned many important things regarding literature. Culler discusses definitions of literature from different angles or aspects. In my opinion, one of the most important angle is “Literature As Aesthetic Object” The aesthetic function of language dealt or went around the various levels of linguistic organization, the separation from practical context of utterance, it deviates from it real meaning or idea and the fictional relation to the world. Further, aesthetic also refers to the theory of art and has involved debates about whether beauty is an objective property of a work of arts or a subjective response of the viewers and about the relation of the beautiful to the true and the good. Aesthetic is also the name of the attempt to bridge the gap between the material and the spiritual world, between a world of forces and magnitudes and a world of concepts the combination, of sensuous forms (color, sounds), the spiritual content may bring together the material and the spiritual side.
Very interesting restatement of Culler's points.
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
In fact, I caught myself explaining it to a friend in a very similar manner to how Cullen explains it here. “Nuke a Whale for Jesus!”(pg35) is a hilarious play on a combination of previous bumper stickers. However, if “No Nukes”, “Save the Whales”, and “Jesus Saves” had not existed, “Nuke a Whale for Jesus” would be utter, possibly insulting, nonsense on the back of someone’s car. Rather than the funny jab at bumper stickers, in general, that it serves to be.
Ha!
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
The subject does not exist anywhere but in the author’s ideas. There could be a funny, mystery, sad, historical, or based on fact. I believe that it requires full attention from the readers. It means that the language of literature always has quality, creativity, and entertainment. While you are reading a fictional book, it is a difference for the current being to take you someplace else or into someone’s life. Reading fiction gives good support such as reducing stress and improving memory.
Very good points!
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
I believe it is useful for literary works to undergo transformation and renew so we can appreciate classic literature in the present without losing the works significance and art.
Yes, and there are duel impulses to restage longstanding examples of literature--such as Phantom--while at the same time "modernizing" it for popular tastes.
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
. I join Jonathan Cullen on his thought that one of the major elements of reading anything should be the pleasure produced by it, it’s capacity to disconnect us from the real world for a second whatever the text can be.
Very well put
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
When I read first time this article “What id literature and does it matter?” by Jonathan Culler, at that time I didn’t know that there are many kinds of literature. After I read this article, I found that really there are many kind of literature and that is really interesting. I believe that this article give me a different kind of knowledge, which I didn’t have before and I didn’t realize that I need to know about literature, which is really good. I think we just don’t have to look at this like professionally, there are also have non-literary works which we have to focus on it. Generally, I think we have to seriously think about literature.
Could you be more specific? What, in particular, surprised you?
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Fiction can be entertaining as it builds up scenarios in our mind that we probably don’t get to see in non-fiction or reality. Literature as fiction also shows a better understanding of the world and human condition also known as being born, growing up, falling in love, issues, death, etc. Literature as fiction helps us get the imagination of the story. I also feel like literature as fiction helps us get a deeper meaning of the character and see them through their shoes.
Very interesting
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Therefor, the angle of literature which interests me is that literature creates a “fictional world”, for example, when I read a book called “ordinary world” by Lu Yao, many golden memories are created from the depth of my mind, those happy memories can’t describe by a single word.
This is really interesting. I'll have to check out this book.
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
A good example of this would be news articles, the news should be only taken as facts.
Yes, but doesn't the news also transport us to other places?
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
As I was reading the section “The nature of Literature” the most interesting angle I’ve read so far is Poetry. “Poetry organizes the sound plane of language so as to make it something to reckon with” (pg 29). At first I did m=not understand how poetry can organize the sound but then I’ve realized that poems have a rhythm as well and its rhymes. Poems are useful because it can give a reader a sense of how someone is feeling without actuating writing the specific words down.
Yes, and remember poetry is an oral art. It was first recited and sung, even though we now mostly encounter it in print.
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Though I admittedly found it hard to grasp or even agree with every idea presented within each angle Culler gives I found that Literature as Aesthetic stood out and was the most interesting to me.
I would be interested to know what you disagreed and/or struggled with.
-
I thought it was very interesting how Culler brings up the debate between the objectivity of beauty in works of art in general vs. the subjectivity of them. I thought it was cool how this sort of looped back to his assertion that within literature there seem to be “rules” that define what is literature or not and through these rules it sort of creates an “objectivity” that can become universal.
You are now ready to read Immanuel Kant!
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Reading fictional book gives us a type of feeling that vicariously allows us into the story, watching it first hand. With every page we read, it gives us the emotion of curiosity as we see what is unfolding and what is being foreshadowed.
Very well put
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Therefore literature is not describing specific things or events, it leaves room for people to imagine, think deeply, and relate the content with their own understandings. In my opinion, the charm of literature lies in the individual expression of text structure, which can help readers to understand and adopt language media without practical purpose and virtuality. Readers can draw on and develop their own comprehension and summary, which I think will make one’s writing more colorful and interesting.
This is very nicely put!
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
I think the most important function of literature is that literature makes more effects by using language in a special way. In this way which makes plain languages more beautiful and artistic, a text can capture more appreciation and enjoyable feelings from readers, as a result, it can affect more and make more impressions on readers than non-literature works
Do you have a favorite work?
-
However, a fully seasoned cooked food compared to boiling noodles is an artwork like literature and non-literature. Of course, a fully seasoned cooked food is more delicious and appreciated, so literature as an aesthetic object is a higher level of human civilization.
This is a great analogy!
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
the reader’s ‘horizon of expectactions’
This is a very interesting take on this attribute of literature because we don't talk enough about what "literature" means for multilingual readers.
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Compared to non-fictional works including newspaper, textbooks, instructions and so on, literature gives brand new experience for readers to wonder what is fictionality really about and interpret it in their own way
Say more about why you are compelled by this attribute of literature. Also, doesn't a news article, for instance, give you a brand new experience when there is a story about a far off place?
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Despite that, not everyone may interpret the same words the same way, not because of ambiguity, but because of their understanding of the world.
Well put
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Poetry, for example, people may think it’s just a short story but when you think about the logic of it much deeper than you think it is, and when you actually understand it you could hear a sound and different set tone when you come across it and read it with a sound the way it’s organized to be projected.
Yes! Can you think of a good example?
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
In Chapter 2 of Literary Theory: a Very Short Introduction by Jonathan Culler, the author talks about the nature of literature and shows different definitions of literature from other angles. Of all the angles that he talked about, I found the angle of literature being fictional interesting, as the author says ” The literary work is a linguistic event which projects a fictional world that includes speaker, actors, events, and an implied audience (an audience that takes shape through the work’s decisions about what must be explained and what the audience is presumed to know)”. Because of this, fictional works can have many different interpretations of what they actually mean due to people’s personal experiences and as such the meaning of a piece of literature can change over time. What an author might have attempted to convey in a piece of literature could totally be different than what the reader/speaker might get just because of the way they think/their imagination.
Very well put
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
There is a space in the “fiction” of literature, just as authors build a world with their thoughts, when readers read, they will enter the “fiction” space of literature. At this time, the author and the reader are in contact, and each reader has a different experience, so the readers’ cognition of this “fictional” world is also different. Even though the same literary works have more possibilities among different readers.
Well put
-
As a carrier of thinkin
I really like this phrase.
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
For instance, we can interpreter something based on how we are feeling, and it doesn’t mean we are wrong, we just have a different interpretation or a different way to see it. The open ending also means that there is not a specific final, thus, giving us the choice to create our final.
Does the fictional quality of literature cause us to feel certain ways or do we bring our own feelings to our interpretations of works? Or is it both?
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Literature is various components of the text that are brought into complex relation. It grabs readers attention. Literary work is a linguistic event which includes speakers, actors, events and an implied audience. Speakers have reactions between authors, what authors think always matters of interpretation. Literature is an ideological instrument to set stories that seduce readers into accepting the hierarchical arrangements of society. The culler defines Literature from the angle of it. Culler mentioned in the article , the literary work is a linguistic event which projects a fictional world that includes speakers, actors, events and implied audiences. Fiction literature gives us a chance to interpret events according to our imagination. Fictional literary work is not limited to the time at which work is written. It depends on the time in the work that the story revolves.
Great points!
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
In my opinion, the most interesting and useful angle of defining “literature” is its fictionality. In this chapter, when explaining “what is literature”, Culler took the opening sentence of a book as an example, claiming that the “curious thing” of the poem is “not a physical object but something like a relation or aspect which doesn’t seem to exist in the same way that a stone or a house does.“(25) Since literature is not describing specific things or events, it leaves rooms for people to imagine, think deeply and relate the content with their own understandings. There is no certain answer to interpret literature works. As Culler claimed, ” the fictionality of literature separates language from other contexts in which it might be used and leaves the work’s relation to the world open to interpretation.”(33) For literature works, everyone has their own interpretations. In addition, people’s interpretation of literature works may also change over time, which i believe is one of the reasons why great literature works have been passed down to generations.
Great points!
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Only if reader read everything the author performs in the work, they can get the true ideas of the author and respond to the ideas correctly. To complete the process of communication though reading, relevant and logical structure in literature is necessary. In my opinion, the structure of intertextual and self-reflexive both promote readers to think critically, actively, and logically. It is very useful way to advance the how we consider and act.
And often works of literature reference other works of literature by other authors.
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
However, Culler told me to consider all of the organization of its laguage first, not the expression of author. Literature is the integration of language, we should feel the contribution of different words and elements in strcuture of literature, which can be charm of literature.
This is a very important distinction
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
What also resonated with me was when Culler said: “literature encourages solitary reading and reflection as the way to engage with the world…”(Culler, page 40). How much could we learn about other cultures without literature and its freed, artistic approach of the language, its different structures, and many times the abstract meaning of the words concerning the local politic, habits, conventions, or period of time? In addition, literature compared to the noise of culture made me think about the significance of literature, especially if we want to live in a united society or have some ability to debate informatively about it. Thru literature, we can learn not only empathy, but we can better question what is going on around us and if it is good or not, but at the same time, keep our mind open to all other possible points of view.
All very interesting points!
-
In my opinion, essential in this section was the acknowledgment of the liberal attribute of the literature and its power over readers in general. I think, we should ask the central question of how considerable is such influence, or how dangerous or beneficial the literature could be for the moral, political, or even social aspects of our society?
This is a very important question.
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
In my experience, the most interesting and useful part of ‘The nature of literature’ by Jonathan Culler is ‘Literature as the integration of the language’ because it help us to find different components and segments of the content in the literature. It functional when sentences are not sound correctly and also when two different words bring their implications into connection. According to Jonathan Culler, “A rhyme, by bringing two words together (‘suppose/knows’), brings their meanings into relation (is ‘knowing’ the opposite of ‘supposing’?).” In this way the connection between words are useful, like in writing there are relation of every word and that make sense when we read a sentence. To consider something as writing it’s important to look at that association or organization of its language, not to consider as the statement of its creator’s mind.
Very well put!
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
The angle that I found the most interesting, and understood the most, is literature as the ‘foregrounding’ of language. I am infatuated with figurative speech, and this text made me realize that it is a good indicator of literature. When I stopped to think about texts that include alliteration, hyperbole, metaphors, rhyme, and so on, those texts (poetry, short stories, novels, plays) were all included in what I would consider to be literature. On the contrary, texts that steer away from figurative language, like news articles, research papers, and nutrition labels, were all texts that I would not usually consider to be literature. I think figurative speech is what Culler was referring to when he described one aspect of literature to be that it emphasizes that you are looking at language. It asks you to stop and pay extra attention to what you are reading
I think this is an excellent distinction. But, how would you go about interpreting texts that steer away from these features, like a news article that uses metaphor, for instance?
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
I feel that literature of fiction introduces us to new worlds of experiences, where we can explore other human conditions. I believe literature as fiction can improve every relationship we face.
This is really interesting. I'm wondering if you could elaborate more, though.
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
The freedom of denouncing something by using fiction without pointing directly to the real event is very interesting, particularly in the dictatorial countries where the freedom of speech is restricted. Also, where activists for human right, authors and journalists are persecuted.
Yes, this is an important aspect of writing!
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
But one can always try writing fiction, especially with a little aid. It’s fascinating how writers write fiction without addressing the real event categorically. It’s mainly seen where human rights advocates, writers, and reporters are sued. Anyway, though fiction might be the most challenging type of writing to advance for even the professional writers, but with the correct mechanism, even the anxious writers can make it.
This is really interesting. I'm wondering if you could elaborate more, though.
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
After reading the nature of literature by Jonathan Culler, I found he mention literature as the ‘foregrounding’ of language, literature as the integration of language, literature as fiction, literature as aesthetic object and literature as intertextual or self-reflexive construct. I found literature as fiction most interesting and useful. Nothing could be more interesting as creative a novels by our imagination. A work of a fiction is a work of a literature. Literary traditions are certainly a quality that sets writing separated from other shape of composing. Literature fiction investigates shade of language, subject and imaginary tends to be a character driven instead of plot driven. In fiction the connection of what speaker say to what creators think is a interpretation. I was wondering why readers attend to literature differently that its utterances have a special relation to the world? The relation is called a fictional that include speakers, actors, events and an implied audience and also the fictionality is not limited to characters and events. These are the features of the language related to the situation of utterances.
Very interesting. You do a great job of exploring this attribute of literature.
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Thus we can deal with both literary and non-literary work to gain information.
Interesting. Is the information the same?
-
Culler discusses what makes readers treat literature in a special site
Yes
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
According to “What is literature and does it matter” from chapter 2 written by Jonathan Culler, I have got a more profound insight into “what is literature”. I think that throughout the whole chapter, the most important aspect of this section of the chapter is the author using the distinctions between the literary works and other discourses to define what is literature. In other words, what the plain and simple discourses don’t possess are the features what literary works probably possess. I believe that, according to the chapter, there are two main determinants for literature identification. One is the word itself, the other is the person who is reading the word. The author wants to tell the readers that for the word which is simply straightly informing information without ornamental or rhyme or hiding information is mostly non-literary work and vice versa. Persons who can understand what is shown in words straightly and simply only is working with the non-literature, and persons who can understand the information beyond and behind what is shown in words straightly and simply is working with the literature in mind. That’s why the author says that the same materials might be considered as literature or non-literature by different people
This is a really good account of this chapter's main focus.
-
My question is that should we deal with daily language in a literary way or non-literary way? Which one is better?
Excellent question. In fact, some writers try to use "everyday language" in order to produce literature.
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
After reading chapter II, “What is literature, and does it matter?” by Jonathan Culler, the point I was interested in was “Literature as fiction”. For me, the reason why fiction is interesting is there must be some parts connected to reality lives, they can be the political situation, the current events of the day even a war, hidden in author’s writing , but the fiction creates difference and the new worlds , the difference with reality unleashes the imagination of the reader and which can make us, the reader, to follow the character or the time to figure out what happen. I think that is why reading research texts is boring, they lack a creativity and some literary beautification.
Great points. So, what makes something "literature" for you is about the work's beauty?
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
both literary and non-literary works need to be treated equally
Interesting point. What would this mean? What would it mean to treat a non-literary work the same as a literary work?
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Personally, I believe that the most important aspect that Culler points out is that there is not one way to define literature. He makes this clear when he states that “We are dealing with two different perspectives that overlap, intersect, but don’t seem to yield a synthesis” when referring to how literature is not a frame put around a specific type of language, nor is literature a specific type of language used to catch someone’s attention. Just because something is well written does not make it a piece of literature nor does something have to be incredibly eye catching to be considered literature. Culler believes that multiple points/perspectives are needed to consider something a piece of literature. However, just because these points are present in something, it isn’t automatically considered literature. This belief supports one of Culler’s earlier claims that “What sets off literary works from other narrative display texts is that they have undergone a process of selection: they have been published, reviewed and reprinted, so that readers approach them with the assurance that others have found them well constructed and ‘worth it'”. As someone who has never been very confident in their own writing ability, something that I pull from Culler’s text is that, just because your method of writing or expressing yourself does not fit into the standard that you consider “literature” does not stop others from potentially appreciating your work.
This is an excellent summation of the chapter.
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Literature can be transformed into many things to defined and help the reader to understand the purpose of the author’s method and logic of how he would want the readers to understand him/her . It may not be in everyone interest to like what ever the author speaks about but understand the topic furthermore interested into the author and some of the other kinds of literature the author wrote or spoke about , It may not matter to other but it could matter to “you” about literature and what is the purpose of it and why people could be interested in it, which could be for many reasons. I would say depending on what type of literature and author’s that grab your attention literature could make a big difference to anyone.
Excellent points
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
challenge our current views on literature and non literature so that we can gain a better understanding of the chapter overall.
Yes, but how should those views be challenged?
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
, its value is higher than that of non-literature? Is the “value” of literature imagined?
A very interesting question
-
erature is a subjective concept, masterpieces such as “Hamlet” “The Old Man and the Sea” must be called literature, but there are many more books or articles that fall somewhere between literature and non-literature.This can be controversial because everyone’s subjective impressions are different. So I don’t think it’s necessary to define literature. But when you want to read a good book, a literary book.
This is a really good point. When does a book become literature?
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
One question that stayed in my mind as reading this chapter was if most of the time what leads readers to treat something as literature is that they find it in a context that identifies it as literature” (28). what would be other things that make people treat a text as literature?
Excellent question!
-
‘what makes us treat something as literature.
Yes! a very important part of the chapter
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
I’d argue that the most important part of this whole chapter is that he never really gave a concrete answer as to what literature is. He mentioned multiple examples of literature and also talked about how people who are professionals in the field of literature find it difficult to come up with a definitive answer as to what literature, since it is so complex
Is this something you didn't like about the chapter?
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
The nature of literature is also important because of their unique structure and function many types of poetry are instantly recognizable. Literature creates a fictional world in which the reader is privy to complex narrative woven using different techniques. Literature matters because theory has heighted the literariness of texts of all sorts. The suspension of the demand for immediate intelligibility, reflection on the implications of means expression, and attention on the implications of means of expression and attention to how meaning is made and pleasure produced.
These are all important ideas from the chapter and you do a good job of summarizing them.
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
From this chapter, i learned that even some texts can be treated as or changed into literature form
Why did this insight jump out to you?
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
herefore, we need to learn how to efficiently extract useful information from the context, and to achieve this goal students need to be training systematically such as: “
Interesting. I'm not sure what you mean by systematic training.
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Reflection is a necessary factor in literature. Non-literacy is easy for people to understand, and not to ask questions.
This is an interesting distinction, but could you reflect on something that is non-literary?
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
think that is very similar to art. Variations of modern, abstract paintings or conceptual art pieces could be considered by many as nonsense, but to many others, could have significant value, for instance, in associations that are appearing on their mind when looking at the specific art piece. It is a very complex and complicated question that is worthy of deeper thinking.
Great point
-
For instance, what is the relation between the words used? Could the specific terms attract the interest of the reader or what the author meant by that statement?
Yes, these are all excellent questions to ask about texts.
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
pacity numerous kinds of verses are immediately unmistakable; this makes the writing. However, Literature can likewise be stylishly satisfying; individuals frequently banter about the excellence of the writing word. Culler closes the part by reminding the peruser that researchers look at the idea of writing to all the more likely sharpen the devices of their exchange, and know the medium with which they accomplish their work. I believe that addressing writing assists perusers with bettering comprehend the idea of inventiveness and their own capacity to communicate.
This is an excellent summary of the chapter
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
These definitions are important because what might not be considered literature today may very well be respected and dissected in college classrooms years down the line, it is important to have an open mind.
Say more about this idea.
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
frame. Literature also goes deeply and indicates the affairs that people interface or have a variety of opinions about it. However, there is no specific definition for literature, what you may consider as a literature some people may not. It does not have a standard to decide what is literature and wh
Very interesting definition of the term.
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
I think it’s important to think about definitions of literature because you use it in everyday life.
This is interesting. Say more about this.
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Furthermore, the author gives some correlation between the weed that is a physical thing to the literature that is a collection of words in the sentences that explain a real or unreal fact.
How does he use this analogy?
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Literature conveys a message in an imaginative and engaging way that non-literature does not require.
Say more about this.
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
. So, Literature helps us to understand the detail of human experiences and to connect desires and emotion in a different way.
Great point!
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
domino effect t
This is interesting. Say more about what you mean by this. What is the effect?
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
what you learned from it.
That's an interesting way to define it.
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
he world.
Good points but what counts as "not literature?"
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
There’s really not one specific way to define literature and we all have our own different interpretations of it, which only makes it much more important and un
But, does this also mean that literature could be anything?
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Second, we can say that all text is somewhat not equal some text is created more powerful and intense while some are soft and weak. T
This is an interesting point.
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
But these works are held to a higher standard because society has deemed them worthy.
Interesting points. I take that you are saying the label "literature" comes from a combination of context and how society determines the work's worth.
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Such as I heard many times Martin Luther said “I have a dream” speech, which has become milestones in history, and though not exactly written works, but it is important to be called literature.
Say more about this. Why is it important that this be called literature?
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
“What is involved in treating things as literature in our culture”( 23)?
Really important question
-
The authors analogy makes me wonder what weeds out great works of literature to plain nonsense.
I'm not sure what you mean by this.
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
What makes us (or some other society) treat something as literature?”
Yes, this question has motivated a lot of the writing about literature over the last 100 years or so.
-
moving
So, for you literature is about whether or not a work causes an emotional reaction?
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
I believe that non-literature texts are kind of easier of reader to easily understand what is the texts about. On the other side literary text includes searching for ideas etc. which is totally different.
Is this because these different kinds of writing are different or is it because we treat them different?
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Why does it matter if we read literature or non literature if they are similar?
This is a good question. The answer, I think, rests on how we read these different kinds of works. How might reading something non-literary--a newspaper, a blog, an email--as literature change our understanding of the work?
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
“why literature is so difficult to define?”
Ha! Great question. I hope it stays with you.
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
After reading the chapter ‘What is Literature and does it matter’, I still believe that literature VS non literature cannot be distinguished by anyone besides the creator of the piece, and if an outsider can, I believe they must know every single fact about to piece down to where the original thought about the creation of the piece came from. The way the author of this reading describes the two is almost as if they rely on each other to become one. Cullen also says that the word ‘literature’ isnt just a word, it is used to describe many things, i agree with this. I believe literature is used to create non literature.
I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at here.
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
“what differentiates literature from other human activities and pastimes?
Excellent question
-
uller mentions that “Weeds are simply plants that gardeners don’t want in their gardens” so there is no clear cut definition for weeds similar to literature. It is important for us to think about the definitions of literature because it’s important to question something that surrounds us on a daily basis.
But, does this mean that anything can be literature?
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
“ why does literature have so many categories? “
An important question but I would add, "how do we decided what the categories of literature are?"
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
what is involved in treating things as literature in our culture?”
Excellent question!
-
o me Culler also asserts that works are often considered “literary” by the masses when they happen to follow qualities and conventions that have long been associated with other literary works. To me a good example he gave of this was the sentence “We dance round in a ring and suppose, but the secret sits in the middle and knows”. Since this sentence rhymes, and follows a rhythmic cadence that seems almost familiar, we are tempted to assume this is a poem of some sort. To me, the fact that we assume this is because of our experiences with similar pieces of text that follow similar conventions as well as the perceived rules of such texts that have been ingrained in us.
So what stands out to you is how we collectively understand a work?
-
-
eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng102fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
In this paragraph, Culler details how theorists explore the different interpretations between different literary works. In poems they use rhymes, but also tell stories about their feelings and emotions to share with the person who is reading it while the novel is plotted to a story that keeps you captivated.
So for you it is based on genre? What about a piece that mixes up genres, like a novel that is written like a newspaper?
-
“what is the importance between literary and non-literary for human life?
This is a really interesting question. I would amend this to ask "what kinds of literary ways of reading do we need to read "non-literary" works?
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Some may argue that women have control over their images on the media because there are now more social media platforms for women to post what they and when they want. Others may disagree with this because when they do post a picture they have to look a certain way, pose a certain way in order to appeal their audiences. In my opinion, women do not have complete control over their images in the media because they have to satisfy their audience. Most female influencers audiences are men, and they are affected by the male gaze because like mentioned before they have to look a certain way, pose a certain way in order to please their audience. Another example is women don’t have any control over how they are shown off in advertisements of clothing brands, products, etc.
What about women who are in more control of their image?
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
, if woman is being used as a bait for fishing audience, doesn’t that objectify her? In Renaissance paintings, we see women who appear shy and unhappy to be seen naked. Moreover, the mans’ image seems to be judging her for being naked and also seems to be nice to the most attractive girl in the painting. This contradiction proves to us that beautiful women always get attention, either in a positive or negative way. I believe at least, the shy and guilty image on a woman’s face has been changed and women in paintings project confidence and power. However, It doesn’t change the fact that women are always being seen as an appealing object for mens’ eyes.
What about women who seem to be more in control of their image, such as Beyonce or Lizzo?
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
I say it is true, a woman today is not in control of their own images in the media because they need to represent a brand, and that brand wants a specific look. The company can be a television show, a clothing line, a music label, etc. In businesses like these, women can be told what kind of clothes to wear, type of makeup to use, hairstyles that are permitted, or even how to speak to gain audiences, p
Can you think of an example?
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
I feel like representations of women today objectify them in the same way as what Berger argues about women depicted in Renaissance paintings because it’s true what he stated. Whenever a female takes a provocative photos she always seeks something after, whether it is a like under the photo or a compliment. I personally feel like women doesn’t have control over their images in the media and are they still determined by the male gaze.
Can you think of examples? What about someone like Lizzo?
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Today’s representation of women are up to the media, news, etc.
Can you think of examples?
-
To me, sexuality should not play a role in society because it undermines them. Some men even identify women only for sex, which is wrong.
Can you say more about this?
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
nd that’s because women have also became content creators, and they can determine what us the viewers see. But the fast paced social media is the perfect breeding ground for competitiveness. Their success is often dependent on the viewer. Especially if you are a female model. Then your content success is often driven by what the male viewer wants to see. So even if women have reclaimed the production of their own image, the male role is so engrained in today society. The male gaze is still a deciding factor on the content produced.
Can you think of an example?
-
A similar clear modern example would be pornography. A lot of today’s porn is made with the male viewer in mind, normalizing the treatment of women as objects for sexual gratification.
Good point
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Representation’s of women today objectify them in very similar ways to what Berger argues. Women today are put on display very similarly to how they were in the renaissance paintings even more so today I believe for example you can’t go anywhere nowadays and not see a picture of a woman on display showing off or modeling for something whether it be a clothing line or car company
Can you think of examples?
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Although more recently women have been stepping up and empowering one another to get rid of this stigma, we are still a long way from it becoming reality. Modern media plays a huge part in this, from Instagram to Tik-Tok, females put content out based on what their audience (which often is made up of males) wants to see. Because of this, many women often follow suit and believe that how the media portrays women is exactly how they should portray themselves. I do think women are slowly regaining control of their own representation but, as of today, what Berger was focusing on is still very true. Women’s portrayal throughout our culture is still very male-driven.
Can you think of examples?
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
ants to post a photo of herself, she doesn’t simply take one photo on her phone and post it. She has to wear a make up, set up her hair, wear trending clothes, even set up the objects around her properly. After setting up everything, now she has to take many photos, with different poses and from different angles. From there she carefully looks at each photos and choose the best one, and she can finally post one picture after all these effort.
But, is she objectified in the same way or is she in control of her image?
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
the bible
I'm not sure what you mean by this.
-
Nowadays, women have more control over their images on the media
Can you think of an example?
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Maggie West’s installation “98”)
This is an interesting example, but could you say more. How does this work resist and/or confront the tendency for art to objectify women?
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
I’d refute that women today are being objectified similar to the ones in the painting. Now, especially in the world of social media and the modern world, women have more of a say and are free to do as they please. If they are posed in a way where they’re half naked, it’ll be due to their confidence. A woman who’s confident dresses how she wants to dress, not because of how a male views them. Or perhaps it’s what they rely on for their livelihood. Take modeling as an example. Women certainly do have a say over their images in the media, but it is definitely still determined by the male gaze.
Can you think of any good examples?
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
Lizzo
Really interesting example
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
In other words Men and Women feed their own egos and pleasures in different ways.
This is a very insightful observation.
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
I agree with what he says due to the fact that seeing works of art you get ideas and creativity may come to you just by seeing a work on a piece of paper, the other is with the letter of the model I agree with the devido So that you can follow it easier to read the conversions as an example netflix or another wed site with the videos it makes it easier for the viewer to understand the situation or the story In those times women were a representative of a lot of art because, as we say today, women are art, they are our women, etc. In those times women were the important basis of many of the creations that today but not only in art, we can also see it In music videos, women also give a little color to everything, basically women are an important basis for men since many things flow from inspirations watching them
I'm not sure what you're saying here. What is your point of view on the blog question about the depiction of women?
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
As of today, women don’t have much control over their images on social media one has to, in a certain way to look interested/appealing, others might freely look at what they feel. In the video, the women argue,” I am a beautiful object. If not, I have to do something,” which I agree because men might not like what they see and lose interest. We women would try to fix the problem like what Berger said at the beginning of the video,” thus incidentally repeating the biblical example.” with adam and eve, they saw each other naked when they ate the apple. But I also have mixed feelings about it, like why can’t men appreciate the hard work women put out their image to show that they can also look professional and presentable.
I think I get what you're saying, but I'm a little lost. Are you saying that women do or don't have control over their images?
-
- Sep 2020
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
the other person point of view, making it easier to have a stronger arguments. T
Why does it make your argument stronger?
-
you got to be able to listen to others points of view
Why?
-
-
eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu eng101fall20.commons.gc.cuny.edu
-
how to engage people conversation
But, why do they ask that writers think of their work as entering a conversation? What do they mean by thi?
-