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    1. Author response:

      General Statements

      We thank the reviewers for their insightful and constructive comments, which have substantially strengthened the manuscript. We have addressed all concerns and replaced the previous nonquantitative RNA-seq analysis with a new analysis that allowed for quantitative assessment. We were encouraged to find that the revised analysis not only confirmed our original observations but also reinforced and extended our conclusions.

      Point-by-point description of the revisions

      Reviewer #1:

      Significance

      At its current stage, this work represents a robust resource for molecular parasitology research programs, paving the way for mechanistic studies on multilayered gene expression control and it would benefit from experimental evidence for some of the claims concerning the in silico regulatory networks. Terms like "regulons", "recursive feedback loop" are employed without solid confirmation or extensive literature support. In my view, the most relevant contribution of this study is centered in the direct association between proteasome-dependent degradation and Leishmania differentiation.

      We thank the reviewer to acknowledge the impact of our work as a robust resource for further mechanistic studies. We agree that the new concepts emerging from our multilayered analysis should be experimentally assessed. However, given the scope of our analysis (i.e. a complete systems-level analysis of bona fide, hamster-isolated L. donovani amastigotes and derived promastigotes) and the amount of data presented in the current manuscript, such functional genetic analysis will merit an independent, in-depth investigation. The current version has been very much toned down and modified to emphasize the impact of our work as a powerful new resource for downstream functional analyses.  

      Evidence, reproducibility and clarity

      The narrative becomes somewhat diffuse with the shift to putative multilevel regulatory networks, which would benefit from further experimental validation.

      We agree with the reviewer and toned down the general discussion while suggesting putative multilevel regulatory networks for follow-up, mechanistic analyses. We now emphasize those networks for which evidence in trypanosomatids and other organisms has been published. Experimental validation of some of these regulatory networks is outside the scope of our manuscript and will be pursued as part of independent investigations.

      Major issues

      Fig.1D suggests a significant portion of the SNPs are exclusive, with a frequency of zero in one of the two stages. Were only the heterozygous and minor alleles plotted in Fig.1D, since frequencies close to 1 are barely observed? Is the same true in Sup Fig. S2B? Why do chrs 4 and 33 show unusual patterns in S2B?

      We thank the reviewer for this observation. The SNPs exclusive to either one or the other stage are likely the result of the 10% cutoff we use for this kind of analysis (eliminating SNPs that lack sufficient support, i.e. less than 10 reads). Due to bottle neck events (such as in vitro culture or stage differentiation), many low frequency SNPs are either ‘lost’ (filtered out) or ‘gained’ (passing the 10% cutoff) between the ama and pro samples. All SNPs above 10% were plotted. The absence of SNPs at 100% is one of the hallmarks of the Ld1S L. donovani strain we are using. Instead, these parasites show a majority of SNPs at a frequency of around 50%, which is likely a sign of a previous hybridization event. Chr 4 and chr 33 show a very low SNP density, most likely as they went through a transient monosomy at one moment of their evolutionary history, causing loss of heterozygosity. We now explain these facts in the figure legend.

      Chr26 revealed a striking contrasting gene coverage between H-1 and the other two samples. While a peak is observed for H-1 in the middle of this chr, the other two show a decrease in coverage. Is there any correlation with the transcriptomic/proteomic findings?

      This analysis is based on normalized median read depth, taking somy variations into account. This is now more clearly specified in the figure legend. We do not see any significant expression changes that would correlate with the observed (minor) read depth changes. As indicated in the legend, we do not consider such small fluctuations (less than +/- 1,5 fold) as significant. The reversal of the signal for chr 26 sample H1 eludes us (but again, these fluctuations are minor and not observed at mRNA level).

      The term "regulon" is used somewhat loosely in many parts of the text. Evidence of co-transcriptomic patterns alone does not necessarily demonstrate control by a common regulator (e.g., RNA-binding protein), and therefore does not fulfill the strict definition of a regulon. It should be clear whether the authors are highlighting potential multiple inferred regulons within a list of genes or not. Maybe functional/ gene module/cluster would be more appropriate terms.

      We thank the reviewer for this important comment. We replaced ‘regulon’ throughout the manuscript by ‘co-regulated, functional gene clusters’ (or similar).

      It is unclear whether the findings in Fig.3E are based on previous analysis of stagespecific rRNA modifications or inferred from the pre-snoRNA transcriptomic data in the current work or something else. I struggle to find the significance of presenting this here.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. Yes, these data show stage-specific rRNA modifications based on previous analyses that mapped stage-specific differences of pseudouridine (Y) (Rajan et al., Cell Reports 2023, DOI: 10.1016/j.celrep.2024.114203) and 2'O-modifications (Rajan et al., Nature Com, in revision) by various RNA-seq analyses and cryoEM. This figure has been modified in the revised version to consider the identification of stageregulated snoRNAs in our new and statistically robust RNA-seq analysis. These data are shown to further support the existence of stage-regulated ribosomes that may control mRNA translatability, as suggested by the enriched GO terms ‘ribosome biogenesis’, ‘rRNA processing’ and ‘RNA methylation’ shown in Figure 2. We better integrated these analyses by moving the panels from Figure 3 to Figure 2.

      The protein turnover analysis is missing the critical confirmation of the expected lactacystin activity on the proteasome in both ama and pro. A straightforward experiment would be an anti-polyUb western blotting using a low concentration SDS-PAGE or a proteasome activity assay on total extracts.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment and have now included an anti-polyUb Western blot analysis (see Fig S7).

      The viability tests upon lactacystin treatment need a positive control for the PI and the YoPro staining (i.e., permeabilized or heat-killed promastigotes).

      This control is now included in Fig S7 and we have added the corresponding description to the text.

      I found that the section on regulatory networks was somewhat speculative and less focused. Several of the associated conclusions are, in some parts, overstated, such as in "uncovered a similar recursive feedback loop" (line 566) or "unprecedented insight into the regulatory landscape" (line 643). It would be important to provide some form of direct evidence supporting a functional connection between phosphorylation/ubiquitination, ribosome biogenesis/proteins and gene expression regulation.

      We agree with the reviewer and have considerably toned down our statements. Functional analyses to investigate and validate some of the shown network interactions are planned for the near future and will be published separately.

      Minor issues

      (1) The ordinal transition words "First,"/"Second," are used too frequently in explanatory sections. I noted six instances. I suggest replacing or rephrasing some to improve flow.

      Rectified, thanks for pointing this out.

      (2) Ln 168: Unformatted citations were given for the Python packages used in the study.

      Rectified, thanks for pointing this out.

      (3) Fig.1D: "SNP frequency" is the preferred term in English.

      Corrected.

      (4) Fig.2A: not sure what "counts}1" mean.

      This figure has been replaced.

      (5) Ln 685: "Transcripts with FC < 2 and adjusted p-value > 0.01 are represented by black dots" > This sentence is inaccurate. The intended wording might be: "Transcripts with FC < 2 OR adjusted p-value > 0.01 are represented by black dots"

      We thank the reviewer and corrected accordingly.  

      (6) Ln 698: Same as ln 685 mentioned above.

      We thank the reviewer and corrected accordingly.

      (7) Fig.2B and elsewhere: The legend key for the GO term enrichment is a bit confusing. It seems like the color scales represent the adj. p-values, but the legend keys read "Cluster efficiency" and "Enrichment score", while those values are actually represented by each bar length. Does light blue correspond to a max value of 0.05 in one scale, and dark blue to a max value of 10-7 in the other scale?

      This was corrected in the figure and the legends were updated accordingly.

      (8) Sup Figure S3A and S4A: The hierarchical clustering dendrograms are barely visible in the heatmaps.

      Thanks for the comment. Figure S3 was removed and replaced by a hierarchical clustering and a PCA plot.

      (9) S3A Legend: The following sentence sounds a bit awkward: "Rows and columns have been re-ordered thanks to a hierarchical clustering". I suggest switching "thanks to a hierarchical clustering" to "based on hierarchical clustering".

      This figure was removed and the legend modified.

      (10) Fig.5D: The font size everywhere except the legend key is too small. In addition, on the left panel, gene product names are given as a column, while on the right, the names are shown below the GeneIDs. Consistency would make it clearer.

      Thank you, this is now rectified. To ensue readability, we reduced the number of shown protein kinase examples.

      Reviewer #2 Evidence, reproducibility and clarity:

      In the absence of riboprofiling the authors return to the RNA-seq to assess the levels of pre-Sno RNA (the role of the could be more explicitly stated).

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. We moved the snoRNA analysis from Fig 3 to Fig 2 (see also the similar comment of reviewer 1), which better integrates and justifies this analysis. Based on the new and statistically robust RNA-seq analysis, the volcano plot showing differential snoRNA expression and possible ribosome modification has been adjusted (Figures 2C and D).

      The authors provide a clear and comprehensive description of the data at each stage of the results and this in woven together in the discussion allowing hypotheses to be formed on the potential regulatory and signalling pathways that control the differentiation of amastigotes to promastigotes. Given the amount and breadth of data presented the authors are able to present a high-level assessment of the processes that form feedback loops and/or intersectional signalling, but specific examples are not picked out for deeper validation or exploration.

      We thank the reviewer to acknowledge the amount and breadth of data presented. As indicated above (see responses to reviewer 1), mechanistic studies will be conducted in the near future to validate some of the regulatory interactions. These will be subject of separate publications. As noted above (response to reviewer 1), we toned down the general discussion, suggest follow-up mechanistic analyses and emphasize those networks for which evidence in trypanosomatids and other organisms has been published.

      Major comments:

      (1) As I have understood it from the description in the text, and in Data Table 4, the RNA-seq element of the work has only been conducted using two replicates. If this is the case, it would substantially undermine the RNA-seq and the inferences drawn from it. Minimum replicates required for inferential analysis is 3 bio-replicates and potentially up to 6 or 12. It may be necessary for the authors to repeat this for the RNA-seq to carry enough weight to support their arguments. (PMID: 27022035)

      We agree with the reviewer and conducted a new RNA-seq analysis with 4 independent biological replicates of spleen-purified amastigotes and derived promastigotes. Given the robustness of the stage-specific transcriptome, and the legal constrains associated with the use of animals, we chose to limit the number of replicates to the necessary. We thank the reviewer for this important comment, and the new data not only confirm the previous one (providing a high level of robustness to our data) but allowed us to increase the number of identified stage-regulated snoRNAs, thus further supporting a possible role of ribosome modification in Leishmania stage development.   

      (2) There are several examples that are given as reciprocal or recursive signalling pathways, but these are not followed up with independent, orthogonal techniques. I think the paper currently forms a great resource to pursue these interesting signalling interactions and is certainly more than just a catalogue of modifications, but to take it to the next level ideally a novel signalling interaction would be demonstrated using an orthogonal approach. Perhaps the regulation of the ribosomes could have been explored further (same teams recently published related work on this). Or perhaps more interestingly, a novel target(s) from the ubiquitinated protein kinases could have been explored further; for example making precision mutants that lack the ubiquitination or phosphorylation sites - does this abrogate differentiation?

      We agree with the reviewer that the paper currently forms a great resource. In-depth molecular analysis investigating key signaling pathways and regulatory interactions are outside the scope of the current multilevel systems analysis but will be pursued in independent investigations.

      (3) I found the use of lactacystin a bit curious as there are more potent and specific inhibitors of Leishmania proteasomes e.g. LXE-408. This could be clarified in the write-up (See below).

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. We opted for the highly specific and irreversible proteasome inhibitor lactacystin that has been previously applied to study the Leishmania proteasome (PMID: 15234661) rather than the typanosomatid-specific drug candidate LXE408 as the strong cytotoxic effect of the latter makes it difficult to distinguish between direct effects on protein turnover and secondary effects resulting from cell death, limiting its utility for dissecting proteasome function in living parasites. We have added this information in the Results section.

      (4) If it is the case that only 2 replicates of the RNA-Seq have been performed it really is not the accepted level of replication for the field. Most studies use a minimum of 3 bioreplicates and even a minimum of 6 is recommended by independent assessment of DESeq2.

      See response to comment 1 above.

      (5) As far as I could see, the cell viability assay does not include a positive control that shows it is capable of detecting cytotoxic effects of inhibitors. Add treatment showing that it can differentiate cytostatic vs cytotoxic compound.

      This control has now been added to Fig S7.

      (6) It is realistic for the authors to validate the cell viability assay. If the RNA-seq needs to be repeated then this would be a substantial involvement.

      Redoing the RNA-seq analysis was entirely feasible and very much improved the robustness of our results.

      (7) All the methods are written to a good level of detail. The sample prep, acquisition and data analysis of the protein mass spectrometry contained a high level of detail in a supplemental section. The authors should be more explicit about the amount of replication at each stage, as in parts of the manuscript this was quite unclear.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment and explicitly state the number of replicates in Methods, Results and Figure legends for all analyses. The number of replicates for each analysis is further shown in the overview Figure S1.

      (8) Unless I have misunderstood the manuscript, I believe the RNA-seq dataset is underpowered according to the number of replicates the authors report in the text.

      See response to comment 1 above.

      (9) Looking at Figure 1 and S1 and Data Table 4 to show the sample workflow I was surprised to see that the RNA-seq only used 2 replicates. The authors do show concordance between the individual biological replicates, but I would consider that only having 2 is problematic here, especially given the importance placed on the mRNA levels and linkage in this study. This would constitute a major weakness of the study, given that it is the basis for a crucial comparison between the RNA and protein levels.

      We agree and have repeated the RNAseq analysis using four independent biological replicates - see response to comment 1.

      (10) It also wasn't clear to me how many replicates were performed at each condition for the lactacystin treatment experiment - can the authors please state this clearly in the text, it looks like 4 replicates from Figure S1 and Data Table 8.

      Indeed, we did 4 replicates. This is now clarified in Methods, Results and Figure legends and shown in Figure S1.

      (11) Four replicates are used for the phosphoproteomics data set, which is probably ok, but other researchers have used a minimum of 5 in phosphoproteomics experiments to deal with the high level of variability that can often be observed with low abundance proteins & modifications. The method for the phosphoproteomics analysis suggests that a detection of a phosphosite in 1 sample (also with a localisation probability of >0.75) was required for then using missing value imputation of other samples. This seems like a low threshold for inclusion of that phosphosite for further relative quantitative analysis. For example, Geoghegan et al (2022) (PMID: 36437406) used a much more stringent threshold of greater than or equal to 2 missing values from 5 replicates as an exclusion criteria for detected phoshopeptides. Please correct me if I misunderstood the data processing, but as it stands the imputation of so many missing values (potentially 3 of 4 per sample category) could be reducing the quality of this analysis.

      We thank the reviewer for this remark and for highlighting best practices in phosphoproteomics data analysis. Unlike other studies that use cultured parasites and thus have access to unlimited amounts, our study employs bona fide amastigotes isolated from infected hamster spleens. In France, the use of animals is tightly controlled and only the minimal number of animals to obtain statistically significant results is tolerated (and necessary to obtain permission to conduct animal experiments).

      Regarding the number of biological replicates, we would like to emphasize that the use of four biological replicates is fully acceptable and used in quantitative proteomics and phosphoproteomics, particularly when combined with high-quality LC–MS/MS data and stringent peptide-level filtering. While some studies indeed employ five or more replicates, this is not a strict requirement, and many high-impact phosphoproteomics studies have successfully relied on four replicates when experimental quality and depth are high. In the present study, we adopted a discovery-oriented approach, aimed at detecting as many confidently identified phosphopeptides as possible. The consistency between replicates, combined with the depth of coverage and signal quality, indicates that four replicates are adequate for both the global proteome and the phosphoproteome in this context. Importantly, the quality of the MS data in this study is supported by (i) a high number of confidently identified peptides and phosphopeptides (identification FDR<1%), (ii) robust phosphosite localisation probabilities (localisation probability >0.75), and (iii) reproducible quantitative profiles across replicates. Notably, most of the identified phosphopeptides are quantified in at least two replicates within a given condition (between 73.2% and 83.4% of all the identified phosphopeptides among replicates of the same condition).

      Regarding missing value imputation, we appreciate that our initial description may have been unclear and we have revised the Methods to avoid misunderstanding. Phosphosites were only considered if detected with high confidence (identification FDR<1%) and high localisation confidence (localisation probability >0.75) in at least one replicate. This criterion was chosen to retain biologically relevant, low-abundance phosphosites, which are more difficult to identify and are often stochastically sampled in phosphoproteomics datasets. For statistical analyses, missing values within a given condition were imputed with a well-established algorithm (MLE) only when at least one observed value was present in that condition. Notably, they were replaced by values in the neighborhood of the observed intensities, rather than by globally low, noise-like values.

      We agree that more stringent exclusion rules, such as those used by Geoghegan et al. (2022), are appropriate in some contexts. However, there is no universally accepted standard for missingness thresholds in phosphoproteomics, and different strategies reflect trade-offs between sensitivity and stringency. In our discovery-oriented approach, we deliberately prioritized biological coverage while maintaining data quality. Our main conclusions are supported by coherent biological patterns, rather than by isolated phosphosite measurements.

      (12) For the metabolomics analysis it looks like 2 amastigote samples were compared against 4 promastigote samples. Why not triplicates of each?

      We thank the reviewer for noticing this point. It is an error in the figure file (Sup figure S1). Four biological replicates of splenic amastigotes were prepared (H130-1, H130-2, H133-1 and H133-2). Amastigotes from 2 biological replicates (H131-1 and H131-2) were seeded for differentiation into promastigotes in 4 flasks (2 per biological replicate) that were collected at passage 2. We have updated the figure file accordingly.

      Minor comments:

      Are prior studies referenced appropriately?

      Yes

      Are the text and figures clear and accurate?

      The write up is clear, with the data presented coherently for each method. The analyses that link everything together are well discussed. The figures are mostly clear (see below) and are well described in the legends. There is good use of graphics to explain the experimental designs and sample names - although it is unclear if technical replicates are defined in these figures.

      We thank the reviewer for these positive comments. We now included the information on replicates in the overview figure (Figure S1).

      As I have understood it, the authors have calculated the "phosphostoichiometry" using the ratio of change in the phosphopeptide to the ratio of the change in total protein level changes. This is detailed in the supplemental method (see below). Whilst this has normalised the data, it has not resulted in an occupancy or stoichiometry measurement, which are measured between 0-1 (0% to 100%). The normalisation has probably been sufficient and useful for this analysis, but this section needs to be re-worded to be more precise about what the authors are doing and presenting. These concepts are nicely reviewed by Muneer, Chen & Chen 2025 (PMID: 39696887) who reference seminal papers on determination of phosphopeptide occupancy - and may be a good place to start. An alternative phrase should be used to describe the ratio of ratios calculated here, not phosphostoichiometry.

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful comment and fully agree with the conceptual distinction raised. The reviewer is correct that the approach used in this study does not measure absolute phosphosite occupancy or stoichiometry, which would indeed require dedicated experimental strategies and would yield values bounded between 0 and 1 (0–100%). Instead, we calculated a normalized phosphorylation change, defined as the ratio of the change in phosphopeptide abundance relative to the change in the corresponding total protein abundance (a ratio-of-ratios approach – see doi :10.1007/978-1-0716-1967-4_12), and we tested whether this normalized phosphorylation change differed significantly from zero. This normalization approach is comparable to those previously published in the « Experimental Design and Statistical Analysis of the Proteome and the Phosphoproteome » section of the following paper (DOI: 10.1016/j.mcpro.2022.100428).

      Our intention was to account for protein-level regulation and thereby better isolate changes in phosphorylation dynamics. While this normalization is informative and appropriate for the biological questions addressed here, we agree that the term “phosphostoichiometry” is imprecise and not correct in this context.

      In response, we (i) replaced the term “phosphostoichiometry” throughout the manuscript with a more accurate description, such as “normalized phosphorylation level”, or “relative phosphorylation change normalized to protein abundance”, and (ii) revised the corresponding Methods and Results text to clearly state that absolute occupancy was not measured.

      This rewording will improve conceptual accuracy without altering the validity or interpretation of the results.

      From the authors methods describing the ratio comparison approach: "Another statistical test was performed in a second step: a contrasted t-test was performed to compare the variation in abundance of each modified peptide to the one of its parent unmodified protein using the limma R package {Ritchie, 2015; Smyth, 2005}. This second test allows determining whether the fold-change of a phosphorylated peptide between two conditions is significantly different from the one of its parent and unmodified protein (paragraph 3.9 in Giai Gianetto et al 2023). An adaptive Benjamini-Hochberg procedure was applied on the resulting pvalues thanks to the adjust.p function of R package cp4p {Giai Gianetto, 2016} using the Pounds et al {Pounds, 2006} method to control the False Discovery Rate level."

      The references have been formatted.

      Several aspects of the figures that contain STRING networks are quite useful, particularly the way colour around the circle of each node to denote different molecular functions/biological processes. However, some have descended into "hairball" plots that convey little useful information that would be equally conveyed in a table, for example. Added to this, the points on the figure are identified by gene IDs which, while clear and incontrovertible, are lacking human readability. I suggest that protein name could be included here too.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment but for readability we opted to keep the figure as is. We now refer to Tables 8, 9, and 12 that allow the reader to link gene IDs to protein name and annotation (if available).

      It is also not clear what STRING data is being plotted here, what are the edges indicating - physical interactions proven in Leishmania, or inferred interactions mapped on from other organisms? Perhaps as supplemental data provide the Cytoscape network files so readers can explore the networks themselves?

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. While the STRING plugin in Cytoscape enables integrated network-based analyses, it represents protein–protein associations as a single edge per protein pair derived from the combined confidence score. Consequently, the specific contribution of individual evidence channels (e.g. experimental evidence, curated databases, coexpression, or text mining) cannot be disentangled within this framework. However, this representation was considered appropriate for the present study, which focused on global network topology and functional enrichment rather than on the interpretation of individual interaction types. The information on stringency has been added to the Methods section and the Figure legends (adding the information on confidence score cutoff).

      We decided not to submit the Cytoscape files as they were generated with previous versions of Cytoscape and the STRING plugin. Based on the differential abundance data shown in the tables it will be very easy to recreate these networks with the new versions for any follow up study.

      The title of columns in table S10 panel A are written in French, which will be ok for many people particularly those familiar with proteomics software outputs, but everything else is in English so perhaps those titles could be made consistent.

      We apologize and have translated the text in English.

      I would suggest that the authors provide a table that has all the gene IDs of the Ld1S2D strain and the orthologs for at least one other species that is in TriTrypDB. This would make it easy to interrogate the data and make it a more useful resource for the community who work on different strains and species of Leishmania. Although this data is available it is a supplemental material file in a previous paper (Bussotti et al PNAS 2021) and not easy to find.

      We thank the reviewer for this very useful suggestion and have added this table (Table S13).

      Figure 5b - from the legend it is not clear where the confidence values were derived in this analysis, although this is explained in the supplemental method. Perhaps the legend can be a bit clearer.

      We have the following statement to the legend: ‘Confidence values were derived as described in Supplementary Methods’.

      Can the authors discuss why lactacystin was used? While this is a commonly used proteasome inhibitor in mammalian cells there is concern that it can inhibit other proteases. At the concentrations (10 µM) the authors used there are off-target effects in Leishmania, certainly the inhibition of a carboxypeptidase (PMID: 35910377) and potentially cathepsins as is observed in other systems (PMID: 9175783). There is a specific inhibitor of the Leishmania proteasome LXE-408 (PMID: 32667203), which comes closer to fulfilling the SGC criteria (PMID: 26196764) for a chemical probe - why not use this. Does lactacystin inhibit a different aspect of proteasome activity compared to LXE-408?

      We have add the following justification to the results section (see also response above to comment 3 for reviewer 2): We chose the highly specific and irreversible proteasome inhibitor lactacystin over the typanosomatid-specific, reversible drug candidate LXE408 as the latter’s potent cytotoxicity can confound direct effects on protein turnover with secondary consequences of cell death, limiting its utility for dissecting proteasome function in living parasites.

      The application of lactacystin is changing the abundance of a multitude of proteins but no precision follow up is done to identify if those proteins are necessary and/or sufficient from driving/blocking differentiation. This could be tested using precision edited lines that are unable to be ubiquitinated? There is a lack of direct evidence that the proteins protected from degradation by lactacystin are ubiquitinated? Perhaps some of these could be tagged and IP'd then probed for ubiquitin signal. Di-Gly proteomics to reveal ubiquitinated proteins? These suggestions should be considered as OPTIONAL experiments in the relevant section above.

      We very much appreciate these very interesting suggestions, which we will be considered for ongoing follow-up studies.

      In the data availability RNA-seq section the text for the GEO link is : (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/geo/query/acc.cgi?acc= GSE227637) but the embedded link takes me to (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/geo/query/acc.cgi?acc=GSE165615) which is data for another, different study. Also, the link to the GEO site for the DNA seq isn't working and manual searches with the archive number (BioProject PRJNA1231373 ) does not appear to find anything. The IDs for the mass spec data PRIDE/ProteomeXchange don't seem to bring up available datasets: PXD035697 and PXD035698

      The links have now been rectified and validated. For those data that are still under quarantine, here is the login information: To access the data:

      DNAseq data: https://dataview.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/object/PRJNA1231373?reviewer=6qt24dd7f475838rbqfn228d 0

      RNAseq data: https://www.ebi.ac.uk/biostudies/ArrayExpress/studies/E-MTAB-16528?key=65367b55-d77f4c06-b4bd-bc10f2dc0b14

      Proteomic data:  http://www.ebi.ac.uk/pride

      Phosphoproteomic data: http://www.ebi.ac.uk/pride

      Significance

      Strengths:

      (1) The molecular pathways that regulate Leishmania life-stage transitions are still poorly understood, with many approaches exploring single proteins/RNAs etc in a reductionist manner. This paper takes a systems-scale approach and does a good job of integrating the disparate -omics datasets to generate hypotheses of the intersections of regulatory proteins that are associated with life-cycle progression.

      We thank the reviewer for this positive assessment of our work.

      (2) The differentiation step studied is from amastigote to promastigote. I am not aware that this has been studied before using phosphoproteomics. The use of the hamster derived amastigotes is a major strength. While a difficult/less common model, the use of hamsters permits the extraction of parasites that are host adapted and represent "normal", host-adapted Leishmania ploidy, the promastigote experiments are performed at a low passage number. This is a strength or the work as it reduces the interference of the biological plasticity of Leishmania when it is cultured outside the host.

      We thank the reviewer for the acknowledgment of our relevant hamster system, for which we face many challenges (financial, ethical, administrative as protocols need to be approved by the French government).

      Limitations:

      Potential lack of appropriate replication (see above).

      See response to comment 1.

      Lack of follow up/validation of a novel signalling interaction identified from the systems-wide approach. There is a lack of assessment of whether a single signalling cascade is driving the differentiation or these are all parallel, requisite pathways. The authors state the differentiation is not driven by a single master regulator, but I am not sure there is adequate evidence to rule this in or out.

      See response to comment 2 above.

      The study applies well established techniques without any particular technical stepchange. The application of large-scale multi-omics techniques and integrated comparisons of the different experimental workflows allow a synthesis of data that is a step forward from that existing in the previous Leishmania literature. It allows the generation of new hypotheses about specific regulatory pathways and crosstalk that potentially drive, or are at least active, during amastigote>promastigote differentiation.

      We thank the reviewer for these positive comments.

      This manuscript will have primary interest to those researchers studying the molecular and cell biology of Leishmania and other kinetoplastid parasites. The approaches used are quite standard (so not so interesting in terms of methods development etc.) and given the specific quirks of Leishmania biology it may not be that relevant to those working more broadly in parasites from different clades/phyla, or those working on opisthokont systems- yeast, humans etc. Other Leishmania focused groups will surely cherry-pick interesting hits from this dataset to advance their studies, so this dataset will form a valuable reference point for hypothesis generation.

      We thank the reviewer for this assessment and agree that our data sets will be very valuable for us and other teams to generate hypotheses for follow-up studies.

      Relevant expertise: Trypanosoma & Leishmania molecular & cell biology, RNA-seq, proteomics, transcriptional/epigenetic regulation, protein kinases - some experience of UPS system.

      I have not provided comment on the metabolomics as it is outside my core expertise. However, I can see it was performed at one of the leading parasitology metabolomics labs.

      We thank the reviewer for sharing expertise, investing time and intelligence in the assessment of our manuscript, and the highly constructive criticisms provided.

      Reviewer #3 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

      Summary:

      The study presents a comprehensive multi-omics investigation of Leishmania differentiation, combining genomic, transcriptomic, proteomic, phospho-proteomic and metabolomic data. The authors aim to uncover mechanisms of post-transcriptional and post-translational regulation that drive the stage-specific biology of L. donovani. The authors provide a detailed characterization of transcriptomic, proteomic, and phospho-proteomic changes between life stages, and dissect the relative contributions of mRNA abundance and protein degradation to stage-specific protein expression. Notably, the study is accompanied by comprehensive supplementary materials for each molecular layer and provides public access to both raw and processed data, enhancing transparency and reproducibility. While the data are rich and compelling, several mechanistic interpretations (e.g., "feedback loops," "recursive networks," "signaling cascades") are overstated. Similarly, the classification of gene sets as "regulons" is not adequately supported, as no common regulatory factor has been identified and only a single condition change (amastigote to promastigote) was assessed.

      We thank the reviewer for these comments and have corrected the manuscript to eliminate all unjustified mechanistic interpretations.

      Major Comments:

      (1) Across several sections (incl abstract, L559-565, L589-599, L600-L603, L610-612, L613-614, L625, L643-645, L650-652), the manuscript describes "recursive or self-controlling networks", "signaling cascades", "self-regulating", and "recursive feedback loops" - involving protein kinases, phosphatases, and translational regulators. While the data convincingly demonstrate stage-specific changes in phosphorylation and abundance changes in key molecules, the language used implies causal, direct and directional regulatory relationships that have not been experimentally validated.

      We agree with the reviewer and have corrected the text, replacing all expressions that may allude to causal or directional relationships by more neutral expressions such as ‘coexpression’.  

      (2) Co-expression and shared function alone do not define a regulon (L363, and several other places in the manuscript). A regulon also requires the gene set to be regulated by the same factor, for which there is no evidence here. Regulons can be derived from transcriptomic experiments, but then they need to show the same transcriptional behavior across many biological conditions, while here just 1 condition change is evaluated. Therefore, this analysis is conventional GO enrichment analysis and should not be overinterpreted into regulons.

      We agree with the reviewer and have replaced ‘regulon’ with ‘co-regulated gene clusters’ (or similar).

      (3) LFQ intensity of 0 (e.g., L389): An LFQ intensity of 0 does not necessarily indicate that a protein is absent, but rather that it was not detected. This can occur for several reasons: (1) true biological absence in one condition, (2) low abundance below the detection threshold, or (3) stochastic missingness due to random dropout in mass spectrometry. While the authors state that adjusted p-values for the 1534 proteins exclusively detected in either amastigotes or promastigotes are below 0.01, I could not find corresponding p-values for these proteins in Table 8 ('Global_Proteomic'). An appropriate statistical method designed to handle this type of missingness should be used. In this context, I also find the following statement unclear: "identified over 4000 proteins at each stage in at least 3 out of 4 biological replicates, representing 3521 differentially expressed proteins (adjusted p-value < 0.01), 1534 of which were exclusively detected in either ama or pro." If a protein is exclusively detected in one stage, then by definition it should not be detected in that number of replicates at both stages. This apparent contradiction should be clarified.

      We fully agree with the reviewer, an LFQ intensity of 0 may results from various reasons. We realize that our wording may have been ambiguous. For clarity, we have modified the original text to: ‘Label-free quantitative proteomic analysis of 4 replicates of amastigotes and derived promastigotes identified over 4000 proteins, including 1987 differentially expressed proteins (adjusted p-value < 0.01), and 1534 that were exclusively detected in either ama or pro (Figure 3A left panel, Table 6).’ We also modified the legend of the Figure 3B. Concerning missing values that could be either missing not at random (MNAR) or missing completely at random (MCAR), rather than introducing potentially misleading imputed values, we chose to treat these missing values as genuine stage-specific differences (presence/absence): quantitative statistics are restricted to proteins with measurable LFQ in both stages, while proteins with consistent presence in one stage and non-detection in the other are reported as stage-restricted detections. We believe this strategy is transparent and minimizes modeling assumptions, while still highlighting robust stage-specific signals. Our approach is supported by independent validation through RNA-seq data, which corroborates the differential presence/absence patterns observed at the protein level. Furthermore, our enrichment analyses reveal significant over-representation of specific biological terms among these stage-specific proteins, providing biological coherence to these findings. Therefore, we believe our conservative approach of treating these as genuine presence/absence differences, validated by orthogonal data, is more appropriate than introducing imputed values based on arbitrary statistical assumptions.  

      (4) L412 - Figure 3B: The figure shows proteins with infinite fold changes, which result from division by zero due to LFQ intensity values of zero in one of the compared conditions. As previously noted, interpreting LFQ zero values as true absence of expression is problematic, since these zeros can arise from several technical reasons - such as proteins being just below the detection threshold or due to stochastic dropout during MS analysis. Therefore, the calculated fold changes for these proteins are likely highly overestimated. This concern is visually supported by the large gap on the y-axis (even in log scale) between these "infinite" fold changes and the rest of the data. Moreover, given Leishmania's model of constitutive gene expression, it seems biologically implausible that all these proteins would be completely absent in one stage. This issue applies not only to Figure 3B, but also to the analyses presented in Figures 4D and 4E.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. To clarify this section, we modified the text as follows: ‘Only expression changes were considered that either showed statistically significant differential abundance at both RNA and protein levels (p < 0.01), or showed significant RNA changes (p < 0.01) with the corresponding protein being detected in only one of the two stages. These latter proteins are identified by signals that were arbitrarily placed at the upper (detected in ama) or the lower (detected in pro) parts of the graph. Whether these proteins just escape detection due to low expression or are truly not expressed remains to be established.’ We also deleted the ‘infinity’ symbol from the Figure.

      Minor Comments:

      Methods

      L132: Typo: "A according" should be "according."

      The ‘A’ refers to RNase A. We added a comma for clarification (…RNase A, according to…)

      L158: How exactly were somy levels calculated? Please specify the method used, as I could not find a clear description in the referenced manuscript.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. Aside the already quite detailed description in Methods and the reference there to the paper describing the pipeline, we now added a link to the description of the karyotype module of the giptools package (https://gip.readthedocs.io/en/latest/giptools/karyotype.html). There the following explanation can be found: “The karyotype module aims at comparing the chromosome sequencing coverage distributions of multiple samples. This module is useful when trying to detect chromosome ploidy differences in different isolates. For each sample the module loads the GIP files with the bin sequencing coverage (.covPerBin.gz files) and normalizes the meancoverage values by the median coverage of all bins. The bin scores are then converted to somy scores which are then used for producing plots and statistics.” The description then goes into further detail.  

      L158: Chromosome 36 is not consistently disomic, as stated. It has been observed in other somy states (e.g., Negreira et al. 2023, EMBO Reports, Figure 1), even if such occurrences are rare in the studied context. Normalizing by chr36 remains a reasonable choice, but it would be helpful to confirm that the majority of chromosomes appear disomic post-normalization to support the assumption that chr36 is disomic in this dataset as well.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. Unlike the paper cited above (using longterm cultured promastigotes), our analysis uses promastigote parasites from early culture adaptation (p2) that were freshly derived from splenic amastigotes known to be disomic (and confirmed here), which represents an internal control validating our analysis.

      L163: Suggestion: Cite the GIP pipeline here rather than delaying the reference until L173.

      Corrected

      L188: "Controlled" may be a miswording. Consider replacing with "confirmed" or "validated."

      Corrected to ‘validated’

      L214: Please specify which statistical test was used to assess differential expression at the protein level. L227: Similarly, clarify which statistical test was applied for determining differential expression in the phospho-proteomics data.

      As noted in the Methods section, a limma t-test was applied to determine proteins/phosphoproteins with a significant difference in abundance while imposing a minimal fold change of 2 between the conditions to conclude that they are differentially abundant {Ritchie, 2015; Smyth, 2005}.

      Results

      L337-339: The interpretation here is too speculative. Phrases like "suggesting" and "likely" are too strong given the evidence presented. Alternative explanations, such as mosaic variation combined with early-stage selective pressure in the culture environment, should be considered.

      We thank the reviewers for these suggestions and have reformulated into: ‘In the absence of convergent selection, it is impossible to distinguish if these gene CNVs provide some strain-specific advantage or are merely the result of random genetic drift.’

      L340: The "undulating pattern" mentioned is somewhat subjective. To support this interpretation, consider adding a moving average (or similar) line to Figure 3A, which would more clearly highlight this trend across the data points.

      These lines have been added to Figure 1C (not 3A).

      L356: It may be more accurate to say "control of individual gene expression," since Leishmania does have promoters - the key distinction is that initiation does not occur on a gene-by-gene basis.

      Corrected

      L403-405: The statement "this is because these metabolites comprise a glycosomal succinate shunt..." should be rephrased as a hypothesis rather than a definitive explanation, as this causal link has not been experimentally validated.

      Thank you for the comment – we followed your advice.

      L407: Replace "confirming" with "matching" to avoid overstating the agreement with previous observations.

      Corrected

      L408: Replace "correlated" with "matched" for more accurate interpretation of results.

      Corrected

      L433: It is unclear how differential RNA modifications were detected. Please specify which biological material was used, the number of replicates per life stage, and how statistical evaluation of differential modifications was performed.

      This figure has now been updated using our statistically robust RNA-seq analysis conducted for the revision. See comments above.

      L436: This conclusion appears incomplete. While the manuscript mentions transcript-regulated proteins, it should also note that other proteins showed discordant mRNA/protein patterns. A more balanced conclusion would mention both the matching and non-matching subsets.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment and have made the necessary adjustments to better balance this conclusion.

      L441: The phrase "poor correlation" overgeneralizes and lacks nuance. Earlier sections of the manuscript describe hundreds of genes where mRNA and protein levels correlate well, suggesting that mRNA turnover plays a key regulatory role. Please rephrase this sentence to clarify that poor correlation applies only to a subset of the data.

      This has been corrected to ‘The discrepancies we observed in a sub-set of genes between….’.

      L454: The claim that "epitranscriptomic regulation and stage-adapted ribosomes are key processes" should be supported with references. If this builds on previously published work, please cite it accordingly.

      Corrected

      L457: Proteasomal degradation is a well-established mechanism in Leishmania. These findings are interesting but should be presented in the context of existing literature (e.g. Silva-Jardim et al.2014, [PMID: 15234661]) rather than as entirely novel.

      Corrected

      L459: The authors shoumd add a microscopy image of promastigotes treated with lactacystin. This would provide insight into whether treatment affects morphology, as is known in T. cruzi (see Dias et al., 2008). It would be particularly informative if Leishmania behaves differently.

      We added this information to Figure S7.

      L472 + L481: Table 9 shows several significant GO terms not discussed in the manuscript. Please clarify how the subset presented in the text was selected.

      We added this information to the text (‘some of the most significantly enrichment terms included …’).

      L482: The argument that a single master regulator can be excluded is unclear. Could the authors please elaborate on the reasoning or data supporting this conclusion?

      This statement was too speculative and has been removed. Instead, we added ‘Thus, Leishmania differentiation correlates with the expression of complex signaling networks that are established in a stage-specific manner’.

      L494: The term "unexpected" may not be appropriate here, as protein degradation is a wellestablished regulatory mechanism in trypanosomatids. Consider omitting this term to better reflect the field's current understanding.

      We deleted the term as suggested and reformulated to ‘….our results confirm the important role of protein degradation….’.

      L543: The term "feedback loop" should be used more cautiously. The current data are correlative, and no interventional experiments are provided to support a causal regulatory loop between proteasomal activity and protein kinases. As such, this remains a hypothesis rather than a confirmed mechanism.

      We fully agree and have toned down the entire manuscript, referring to feedback loops only as a hypothesis and not as a fact emerging from our datasets, which set the stage for future functional analyses.

      Discussion

      L555: As noted in L494, reconsider using the word "unexpected."

      Removed

      L589: The data do not fully support the presence of stage-specific ribosomes. Rather, they suggest differential ribosomal function through changes in abundance and regulation. Please consider rephrasing.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment and have follow the advice reformulating the sentence according to the suggestion.

      L657-658: The discussion of post-transcriptional and post-translational regulation of gene dosage effects would benefit from citing additional literature beyond the authors' own work. E.g. the study by Cuypers et al. (PMID: 36149920) offers a relevant and comprehensive analysis covering 4 'omic layers.

      We apologize for this omission and now describe and cite this publication in the Results section when concluding the results shown in Figure 1.

      L659-664: The reference to deep learning for biomarker discovery appears speculative and loosely connected to the current findings. As no such methods were applied in the study, and the manuscript does not clarify what types of biomarkers are intended, this statement could be seen as aspirational rather than evidence-based. Consider either omitting or elaborating with clear justification.

      We agree and have deleted this section.

      L690 + L705 (Figure 2): The phrase "main GO terms" is vague. Please clarify the criteria for selecting the GO terms shown - were they chosen based on adjusted p-value, enrichment score, or another metric? Additionally, define "cluster efficiency," explaining how it was calculated and what it represents.

      Corrected to ‘some of the most significantly enriched GO terms’.

      Referee cross-commenting

      Overall, I think the other reviewers' comments are fair. They seem to align particularly on the following points:

      (1) Reviewers agree that this is a comprehensive body of work with original contributions to the field of Leishmania/trypanosomatid molecular biology, and that it will serve as a valuable reference for hypothesis generation.

      (2) Several reviewers raise concerns about overinterpretation of the data, particularly regarding regulatory networks, regulons, and master regulators. The interpretation and large parts of the discussion are considered too speculative without additional functional validation.

      (3) There are comments about the incorrect statistical treatment of missing values in the proteomics experiments, which affects confidence in some of the conclusions.

      (4) While the correlation between the two RNA-Seq replicates is high, the decision to include only two biological replicates is seen as unfortunate and not ideal for statistical robustness.

      (5) The use of lactacystin should be more clearly motivated, and its limitations discussed in the context of the experiments.

      Even though I did not remark on the last two points (4 and 5) in my own review, I agree with them.

      We thank the reviewer for this cross-comparison, which served us as guide to revise our manuscript. We believe that we have responded to all these concerns.

      Reviewer #3 (Significance):

      This study provides a rich, integrative multi-omics dataset that advances our understanding of stage-specific adaptation in the transcriptionally unique parasite Leishmania. By dissecting the relative contributions of mRNA abundance and protein turnover to final protein levels across life stages, the authors offer valuable insights into post-transcriptional and post-translational regulation. The work represents a resource-driven yet conceptually informative contribution to the field, with comprehensive supplementary materials and transparent data sharing standing out as additional strengths.  

      However, the mechanistic insights proposed are speculative in several places and require more cautious language. The study is most impactful as a resource and descriptive atlas, initiating hypotheses for future validation. The broad scientific community working on Leishmania, trypanosomatids, and post-transcriptional regulation in eukaryotes would benefit from this work.

      We thank the reviewer for this positive assessment and have modified the manuscript to further emphasize its strength as an important resource to incite mechanistic follow-up studies.

      Field of reviewer expertise: multi-omics integration, bioinformatics, molecular parasitology, transcriptomics, proteomics, metabolomics, Leishmania, Trypanosoma.

      Reviewer #4 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

      Summary:

      This study investigates the regulatory mechanisms underlying stage differentiation in Leishmania donovani, a parasitic protist. Pesher et al., aim to address the central question of how these parasites establish and maintain distinct life cycle stages in mostly the absence of transcriptional control. The authors employed a five-layered systems-level analysis comparing hamster-derived amastigotes and their in vitro-derived promastigotes. From those parasites, they performed a genomic, transcriptomic, proteomic, metabolomic and phosphoproteomic analysis to reveal the changes the parasites undertook between the two life stages.

      The main conclusion stated by the authors are:

      - The stage differentiation in vitro is largely independent of major changes in gene dosage or karyotype.

      - RNA-seq analysis identified substantial stage-specific differences in transcript abundance, forming distinct regulons with shared functional annotations. Amastigotes showed enrichment in transcripts related to amastins and ribosome biogenesis, while promastigotes exhibited enrichment in transcripts associated with ciliary cell motility, oxidative phosphorylation, and posttranscriptional regulation itself.

      - Quantitative phosphoproteome analysis revealed a significant increase in global protein phosphorylation in promastigotes. Normalizing phosphorylation changes against protein abundance identified numerous stage-specific phosphoproteins and phosphosites, indicating that differential phosphorylation also plays a crucial role in establishing stage-specific biological networks. The study identified recursive feedback loops (where components of a pathway regulate themselves) in post-transcriptional regulation, protein translation (potentially involving stage-specific ribosomes), and protein kinase activity. Reciprocal feedback loops (where components of different pathways cross-regulate each other) were observed between kinases and phosphatases, kinases and the translation machinery, and crucially, between kinases and the proteasomal system, with proteasomal inhibition disrupting promastigote differentiation.

      We thank the reviewer for the time and implication dedicated to our manuscript.  

      Further details are organised by order of apparition in the text:

      Material and Methods: while the authors are indicating some key parameters, providing the codes and scripts they used throughout the manuscript would improve reproducibility.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment and added the URL for the codes to the data availability section.

      Why only 2 biological replicates for RNA while the others layers have 3 or 4?

      We agree with the other reviewers and have repeated this analysis to have statistically more robust results.

      Is the slight but reproducible increase in median coverage observed for chr 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and 20 stable on longer culture derived promastigotes and sandfly derived promastigotes ?

      No, as published in Barja et al Nature EcolEvol 2017 (PMID: 29109466) and Bussotti et al PNAS 2023 (PMID: 36848551), these minor fluctuations are not predicting subsequent aneuploidies in long-term culture nor in sand fly-derived promastigotes. This information has been added to the text.

      Is this change of ploidy a culture adaptation representation rather than a life cycle event as the authors discuss later on? (This is probably an optional request that would be nice to include, if the authors have performed the sequencing of such parasites. Otherwise, it should be mentioned in the discussion).

      Yes, this is a well-known culture adaptation phenomenon, on which we have published extensively. We added this conclusion and the references to the text.

      L333 "Likewise, stage differentiation was not associated with any major gene copy number variation (Figure 1C, Table 2)". The authors are looking here at steady differentiated stages rather than differentiation itself. "Likewise, stage differentiation was.." would be more appropriate.

      We corrected this sentence to ‘Likewise, differentiation of promastigotes was not associated with any major gene copy number variation at early passage 2’.

      L349-355: have the mRNA presenting change in abundance between stages been normalised by their relative DNA abundance ? Said otherwise, can the wave patterns observed at the genome level explain the respective mRNA level ? Can the authors plot in a similar way the enrichment scores in regards to the position on the genome and can the authors indicate if there is a positional enrichment in addition to the functional one they observe ? This may affect the conclusion in L356-358.

      As noted above, we did not see any significant read depth changes at DNA level when comparing amastigotes and promastigotes. Thus there is no need to normalize the RNAseq results to DNA read depth. Furthermore, in our comparative transcriptomics analysis, we only consider 2-fold or higher changes in mRNA abundance (which is far beyond the non-significant read depth change we have observed on DNA level). Manual inspection of the enrichment scores with respect to position did not reveal any significant signal (other than revealing some overrepresented tandem gene arrays where all gene copies share the same location and GO term).

      L415 "stage-specific expression changes correlate between protein and RNA levels, suggesting that the abundance of these proteins is mainly regulated by mRNA turn-over". Overstatement. Correlation does not suggest causation. "suggesting that the abundance of these proteins could be regulated by mRNA turn-over" would be more appropriate.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment and have corrected the statement accordingly.

      Figure 3B, could the authors clarify what are the "unique genes" that are on the infinite quadrants? It seems these proteins are identified in one stage and not the other. This implies that the corresponding missing values are missing non-at random (MNAR). Rather than removing those proteins containing NMAR from the differential expression analysis, the authors should probably impute those missing values. Methods of imputation of NMAR and MAR can be found in the literature. Indeed, the level of expression in one stage of those proteins is now missing, while it could strongly affect the conclusions the authors are drawing in figure 4E regarding the proteins targeted for degradation and rescued in presence of the proteasome inhibitor.

      We thank the reviewer for this important comment. However, we would like to clarify several key points regarding the treatment of proteins identified in only one condition.

      First, the reviewer assumes that proteins identified in one stage but not the other are necessarily missing not-at-random (MNAR). However, this cannot be definitively established, as these missing values could equally be missing completely at random (MCAR). Without additional information, categorizing them specifically as MNAR may be an oversimplification. More importantly, we have concerns about the reliability of imputation methods in this specific context. Algorithms designed to impute MNAR values (such as QRILC) replace absent data using random sampling from arbitrary probability distributions, typically assuming low intensity values. However, when no intensity value has been detected or quantified for a protein in a given condition, imputing an arbitrary low value raises significant concerns about data interpretation. Such imputed values would not reflect actual measurements but rather statistical assumptions that could introduce bias into downstream analyses. For instance, imputed values could lead to the conclusion that a protein is not differentially abundant, when in reality it is detected in one condition but completely absent in the other. In our view, there are two biologically plausible scenarios: either these proteins are expressed at levels below our detection threshold, or they are genuinely absent (or present at negligible levels) in the corresponding stage. Rather than introducing potentially misleading imputed values, we chose to treat these as genuine stage-specific differences (presence/absence), which results in infinite fold-changes in Figure 3B. Critically, our approach is strongly supported by independent validation through RNA-seq data, which corroborates the differential presence/absence patterns observed at the protein level. Furthermore, our enrichment analyses reveal significant over-representation of specific biological terms among these stagespecific proteins, providing biological coherence to these findings. These converging lines of evidence (proteomics, transcriptomics, and functional enrichment) strengthen our confidence that these represent biologically meaningful differences rather than technical artifacts.Therefore, we believe our conservative approach of treating these as genuine presence/absence differences, validated by orthogonal data, is more appropriate than introducing imputed values based on arbitrary statistical assumptions.To clarify this section, we modified the text as follows: ‘Only expression changes were considered that either showed statistically significant differential abundance at both RNA and protein levels (p < 0.01), or showed significant RNA changes (p < 0.01) with the corresponding protein being detected in only one of the two stages. These latter proteins are identified by signals that were arbitrarily placed at the upper (detected in ama) or the lower (detected in pro) parts of the graph. Whether these proteins just escape detection due to low expression or are truly not expressed remains to be established.’

      L430-435 "These data fit with the GO [...] the ribosome translational activity (34)." This discussion feels out of place and context. It is too speculative and with little support by the data presented at this stage of the manuscript. It should be removed as Figure 3E or could be placed in the discussion and supplementary information.

      We agree with the reviewer. In response to a comment from reviewer 1, we have moved both panels to Figure 2, which much better integrates these data.  

      The authors present an elegant way to show stage specific degradation through the comparison of stage specific proteasome blockages that show rescue in ama of proteins present in pro and vice versa. L494 "reveal an unexpected but substantial" the term unexpected is inappropriate, as several studies have shown in kinetoplastids the essential role of protein turnover through degradation / autophagy during differentiation. Furthermore the conclusions may be strongly affected by the level of expression of the proteins in the infinite quadrants as we discussed above, and should be revised accordingly.

      We rephrased the conclusion to ‘In conclusion, our results confirm the important role of protein degradation in regulating the L. donovani amastigote and promastigote proteomes and identify protein kinases as key targets of stage-specific proteasomal activities.’ Please see the response to comment 9 regarding the unique proteins.

      L518 "These data reveal a surprising level of stage-specific phosphorylation in promastigotes, which may reflect their increased biosynthetic and proliferative activities compared to amastigotes." Overstatement. Could also be due to culture adaptation - What is the overlap of stage-specific phosphorylations with previous published datasets in other species of Leishmania? Looking at such comparisons could help to decipher the role of culture adaptation response, species specificity and true differentiation conserved mechanisms.

      We agree with the reviewer and have toned this statement down by adding the statement ‘….or simply be a consequence of culture adaptation’.

      The discussion is extremely speculative. While some speculation at this stage is acceptable, claiming direct link and feedback without further validation is probably far too stretched. For example, the changes of phosphorylation observed on particular sets of proteins, such as phosphatase and DUBs, need to be validated for their respective change of protein activity in the direction that fits the model of the authors. Those discussions should be toned down.

      We agree with the reviewer and have strongly toned down the entire discussion, emphasizing the hypothesis-building character of our results, which provide a novel framework for future experimental analyses.

      A couple of typos:

      In the phosphoproteome analysis section, "...0,2 % DCA..." should be "...0.2 % DCA..." (use a decimal point).

      L225 "...peptide match was disable." should be "...peptide match was disabled."

      Both corrected

      Reviewer #4 (Significance):

      While there is not too much novelty around the emphasis of gene expression at post-translational level in kinetoplastid organisms, the scale of the work presented here, looking at 5 layers of potential regulations, is. Therefore, this study represents a substantial amount of work and provides interesting and comprehensive datasets useful for the parasitology community.

      We thank the reviewer for this positive statement.

      Several potential concerns regarding the biological meaning of the findings were identified. These include the limitations of in vitro systems promastigote differentiation potentially limiting the conclusions, the challenge of inferring causality from correlative "omics" data, and the complexities of functional interpretation of changes in phosphorylation and metabolite levels. The proposed feedback loops and functional roles of specific molecules would require further experimental validation to confirm their biological relevance in the natural life cycle of Leishmania, but that would probably fall out of the scope of this manuscript.

      We agree with the reviewer and have modified pour manuscript throughout to remove any causal relationships. Indeed, this work is setting the stage for future investigations on dissecting some of the suggested regulatory mechanisms.

      Area of expertise of the reviewers: Kinetoplastid, Differentiation, Signalling, Omics

    1. Author response:

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1:

      Summary:

      The authors aim to study mutational paths connecting WW domains with different binding specificities. Their approach combines an unsupervised sequence generative model based on RBMs with a path-sampling algorithm. The key result is that most intermediate sequences along the designed transition paths retain measurable binding activity in wet-lab assays, whereas paths containing the same mutations introduced in a randomized order are largely nonfunctional. This difference is attributed to epistatic interactions captured by the RBM model.

      Strengths:

      Exploring mutational paths in high-dimensional protein sequence space is a challenging problem. The computational framework used here is state-of-the-art and is strengthened by systematic experimental characterization of binding activity. The study is comprehensive in scope, including multiple transition paths both within and across WW specificity classes, and the integration of modeling with high-throughput experimental validation is a clear strength.

      Weaknesses:

      A major concern is whether the stated goal of specificity switching is fully achieved. Along the sampled transition paths, most intermediate variants appear to retain specificity close to either the initial or the final class, rather than exhibiting gradually shifting specificity. For example, in Figure 4G (Class I to Class II/III), binding appears largely binary, with intermediates behaving similarly to one of the endpoints. A similar pattern is observed in Figure 3H for the Class I to Class IV transition, where binding responses are close to 0 or 1. In this sense, the specificityswitching objective is only partially realized by assigning two endpoints with different specificity. This raises a broader conceptual question: is it possible that different WW specificities evolved from a common ancestor without passing through intermediates that exhibit mixed or intermediate specificity? If so, then inferring specificity-switching pathways purely from extant natural sequences may be fundamentally challenging.

      This is a key question, which was one of the original motivations of our work. Both hypothesis of ‘abrupt switches’ (punctuated equilibria, corresponding to distinct specificities) and more gradual changes (smooth transition, through intermediate that exhibit mixed or intermediate specificity) are possible.

      Many natural specificity-switching events have probably resulted from the need to adapt to environmental change and selection for a different specificity, which can be compatible with an abrupt change in specificity. Others may reflect the gradual evolution of promiscuous ancestral sequences to more specialized ones, loosing cross-reactivity. A molecular mechanism that could allow abrupt switching is gene duplication, a frequent mechanism for WW domain diversification, beyond standard mutational-driven evolution processes.  

      As for the specificity-switching paths for WW domains found in this work, the presence of weakly responsive cross-reactive intermediates along the designed paths for I<->IV, and their absence in the I<->II path, suggests that designing promiscuous domains is hard (see also related response to point 3 of Reviewer 2) and generally not selected by natural evolution (as seen from the clear clustering of extant proteins in different specificity classes). 

      For a small domain such as WW, mutations that favor some specificity classes are known to have detrimental effects on fundamental properties, such as folding kinetics and stability, see Ref [72]. It is possible that larger, less constrained protein domains could allow for more crossreactive variants and smoother specifity switching. However, experiments on fluorescent proteins looking for interpolation between two wave-lengths have shown that the switch was abrupt [Poelwijk et al. Nature Communications (2019)].

      Our scope was to achieve a functional switch (imposed by the two extant end-points) through a path of designed, functional intermediates and to correctly predict, with our RBM model, the location of the specificity transition and of the cross-reactivity region (which we expected only along the I-IV path). This scope was successfully reached as demonstrated by experiments.  

      Reviewer #2:

      This is an extremely important work that shows how one can use generative models to construct specificity-switching mutational paths in complex fitness landscapes. The experimental evidence is very clear, and the theoretical tools are innovative.

      The work will likely have a deep impact on future research aimed at understanding how evolution navigates fitness landscapes as well as reconstructing ancestral sequences.

      The manuscript is extremely clear and well written, the experimental evidence is strong, and the methods are clearly described, so I do not have major issues to raise. A few minor issues are listed below.

      (1) I consider the WW domain as an 'easy' case from the point of view of generative modelling. The domain is rather short, epistatic effects are not very strong (e.g. Boltzmann learning usually converges very quickly to a very paramagnetic state), and the resulting models are well interpretable (e.g. the hidden units of the RBM correlate well with subclasses).

      This is not always (not often?) the case, however. In more complex proteins, the learning procedures can be slower and the resulting models less interpretable. Just for completeness, perhaps the authors could comment on the generality of the results and what they would expect for other systems based on their experience.

      We agree with Reviewer 2 that WW sequences are short and simple to handle from a computational point of view, and was chosen for this reason to test the design of full mutational paths (after having benchmarked it to lattice-protein models, see Refs. [30] and [44]). Our work gives additional support to the effectiveness of generative models learned from sequence data.  This said, from a biological point of view, WW is a highly constrained domain, see comment by Reviewer 1 above and our answer.

      In longer and more complex proteins, we expect it will be more difficult to disentangle specificityswitching latent units, see Fernandez-de-Cossio-Diaz et al., Physical Review X 2023 for a discussion and a possible computational approach to this issue. Notice that, while relating the latent units to specificity classes was convenient, it was not used to generate the paths themselves. Therefore, we believe that our method is quite robust and easily generalizable to applications to more complex and longer proteins. As an illustration, we have recently used it to sample viral trajectories (more precisely, variants of the Receptor Binding Domain of the SARSCoV-2 spike protein) capable of escaping antibody recognition, see Huot et al., PNAS 2026. In this recent work, we projected the paths onto the principal antigenic space, defined by the top two Principal Components of the viral variant binding affinities to 32 antibodies. In this representation, sampled paths displayed trends similar to natural paths, drawn from the sequences sampled during the pandemics. This finding supports the applicability and interpretation of our method for more complex proteins.

      (2) In Section 3.3, the authors say that direct paths connecting Class I and Class IV behave similarly to indirect paths, despite having lower scores according to the RBM. How generic is this? Does it also happen for other classes? This might be an important point to address, as direct paths are easier to sample.

      We think that this finding, true for paths connecting classes I and IV, is not general. In a previous paper we have benchmarked our path-designing approach on simple models of insilico lattice proteins and shown that indirect path led to gains in the overall fitness (computed according with the ground-truth model) [Mauri, Cocco, Monasson, Physical Review E 2023, fig. 9-12].

      In general, we would expect that indirect paths could explore alternative mutations, important to compensate for transitory destabilizing mutations that could occur along the path. We speculate that these stabilizing mutations happen for non-direct paths at its extremity near class-I wildtype. A slightly decrease in binding response to peptide C1 for direct path is nevertheless observed (see Suppl Table 4), but our experimental detection, focused on binding response, is not tailored to directly detect a difference in stability. When approaching the class-IV anchoring point, we observe that paths interpolating between classes I and IV are very constrained and show limited diversity, going through a funnel in sequence space corresponding to the direct path. We agree with Reviewer 2 that a more exhaustive comparison with direct paths would be interesting, and will add a sentence in conclusion.

      (3) The path shown in Figure 4 goes through a region of non-functionality around sequences 1819. It seems that the sample path is basically exploring the functional regions for Class I and Class II/III separately, trying to approach the other class, but then it can't really make the switch.

      By contrast, the path going from Class I to Class IV seems able to perform the functional switch in a single step (20-21) without losing too much of the function.

      Perhaps the authors could better comment on this? Is this a limitation of the sampling method, or a fundamental biological fact?

      Class I to Class IV paths and Class I to Class II paths fundamentally differ because the binding pocket in Class I WW domains is different from the one of Class IV WWs, while Classes I and II/III share the same binding region. This important difference may explain why class I specificity can switch to class IV specificity (steps 20-21), without completely loosing affinity to the peptide of class I. To investigate if the two binding regions are really independent or not, we have tested some additional specific mutations along the I-IV mutational paths. In our attempts to engineer cross-reactivity, we have observed that it is important to substantially lower affinity to class I peptide to acquire class IV specificity, in agreement with previous studies [72]. Moreover, the I to IV path seems to go through a funnel-like part in the region with no natural sequences, with the same transition intermediates obtained in several designed paths. This indicates that the Class I to Class IV functional switch is more constrained than the Class I to II switch. Let us also emphasize that our assessment of class specificity is based on one peptide for each class. It would be interesting to test multiple WW-binding peptides with similar biochemical properties to acquire a more complete view of the specificities. 

      (4) On page 12, it is stated that the temperature was chosen to 1/3 to maximize the score. This is important and should be mentioned earlier (I didn't notice it until that point).

      Section 3.5 explains that RBM samples can be biased, by lowering the sampling temperature to 1/3 to obtain high-scores sequences, which are more likely to be functional as proven in [Russ et al., Science 2020]. We acknowledge (as also noted by Reviewer 1) that this section comes at the end of the manuscript, while differences in scores along the path are shown before, so the discussion of this important point is somewhat delayed. We will add a sentence earlier in Results to explain this point.  

      (5) On page 13, it is stated that: "However, the scores of the ancestral sequences along the phylogenetic pathways assigned by the RBM are significantly lower than the ones of the RBMdesigned sequences. This result is expected as ASR reconstruction does not take into account epistasis, differently from RBM, and we expect ASR sequences to generally be of lesser quality."

      I was very surprised by this result. My own experience with ASR shows that, on the contrary, sequences found by ASR (via maximum likelihood) tend to have high scores in the (R)BM, and tend to be more stable than extant sequences. I attribute this to the fact that ASR typically finds a "consensus" sequence that maximizes the contribution to the score coming from the fields (the profile), which is typically dominant over the epistatic signal, resulting in a bigger score. Maybe the authors did not use maximum likelihood in the ASR? Some clarification might be useful here.

      We agree with Reviewer 2 that the consensus sequence is an atypical sequence for an independent model with a large RBM score. We will update Figure 5 of the manuscript to show that this is also happening in our case. 

      We use Maximum Likelihood in ASR but our ASR path corresponds to all internal nodes of the reconstructed tree joining the two extant sequences, not only to the most ancestral node. Overall, the ancestral sequences along the ASR paths are different from the consensus sequence (mean identity of 76% and 60% respectively). The most ancestral nodes in the paths  are also different from the consensus having 81% (paths between type I and IV domains) or 54%(paths between type I and II/III domains) similarity, and an RBM score  of -21, or -58, respectively. We agree that some ASR internal-node sequence have a higher score than the natural wild-types (extant sequences). This is shown in Fig. 6: several points have larger RBM score than the two anchoring points at the extremities of the path, possibly due to the fact that natural sequences are not always the most stable ones. As discussed in conclusion, ASR nodes have moreover generally better scores than the sequences obtained by sampling an independent model. Phylogenetic reconstruction implicitly takes into account some degree of co-variation between sites in natural sequences, as shown by the success of the use of the phylogenetic distance of a mutated sequence to the wild-type for predicting the fitness effect of these mutations [Laine, Mol. Biol. Evol. 2019]. 

      To better show this effect we will update Figure 6, reporting also the scores of the « scrambled » sequences, which do not respect potential epistasis extracted by the RBM. It appears that ASR sequences generally have better scores than the scrambled sequences, and lower than RBM sequences (sampled at T=1/3). RBM models takes into account multiple-residues correlations, which could contribute to reaching better scores than ASR and BM models. Ongoing studies on larger proteins show that the score of sequences sampled from ASR reconstruction, including the Maximum Likelihood one, can still be improved according to the RBM score by a few mutations consistent with the ASR posterior probabilities (unpublished). 

      Mistakes in the reference list will be amended in the updated version.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this paper, the authors investigate the effects of Miro1 on VSMC biology after injury. Using conditional knockout animals, they provide the important observation that Miro1 is required for neointima formation. They also confirm that Miro1 is expressed in human coronary arteries. Specifically, in conditions of coronary diseases, it is localized in both media and neointima and, in atherosclerotic plaque, Miro1 is expressed in proliferating cells.

      However, the role of Miro1 in VSMC in CV diseases is poorly studied and the data available are limited; therefore, the authors decided to deepen this aspect. The evidence that Miro-/- VSMCs show impaired proliferation and an arrest in S phase is solid and further sustained by restoring Miro1 to control levels, normalizing proliferation. Miro1 also affects mitochondrial distribution, which is strikingly changed after Miro1 deletion. Both effects are associated with impaired energy metabolism due to the ability of Miro1 to participate in MICOS/MIB complex assembly, influencing mitochondrial cristae folding. Interestingly, the authors also show the interaction of Miro1 with NDUFA9, globally affecting super complex 2 assembly and complex I activity.<br /> Finally, these important findings also apply to human cells and can be partially replicated using a pharmacological approach, proposing Miro1 as a target for vasoproliferative diseases.

      Strengths:

      The discovery of Miro1 relevance in neointima information is compelling, as well as the evidence in VSMC that MIRO1 loss impairs mitochondrial cristae formation, expanding observations previously obtained in embryonic fibroblasts.

      The identification of MIRO1 interaction with NDUFA9 is novel and adds value to this paper. Similarly, the findings that VSMC proliferation requires mitochondrial ATP support the new idea that these cells do not rely mostly on glycolysis.

      The revised manuscript includes additional data supporting mitochondrial bioenergetic impairment in MIRO1 knockout VSMCs. Measurements of oxygen consumption rate (OCR), along with Complex I (ETC-CI) and Complex V activity, have been added and analyzed across multiple experimental conditions. Collectively, these findings provide a more comprehensive characterization of the mitochondrial functional state. Following revision, the association between MIRO1 deficiency and impaired Complex I activity is more robust.

      Although the precise molecular mechanism of action remains to be fully elucidated, in this updated version, experiments using a MIRO1 reducing agent are presented with improved clarity

      Although some limitations remain, the authors have addressed nearly all the concerns raised, and the manuscript has substantially improved

      Weaknesses:

      Figure 6: The authors do not address the concern regarding the cristae shape; however, characterization of the cristae phenotype with MIRO1 ΔTM would have strengthened the mechanistic link between MIRO1 and the MIB/MICOS complex

      Although the authors clarified their reasoning, they did not explore in vivo validation of key biochemical findings, which represents a limitation of the current study. While their justification is acknowledged, at least a preliminary exploratory effort could have been evaluated to reinforce the translational relevance of the study.

      Finally, in line with the explanations outlined in the rebuttal, the Discussion section should mention the limits of MIRO1 reducer treatment.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study identifies the outer‑mitochondrial GTPase MIRO1 as a central regulator of vascular smooth muscle cell (VSMC) proliferation and neointima formation after carotid injury in vivo and PDGF-stimulation ex vivo. Using smooth muscle-specific knockout male mice, complementary in vitro murine and human VSMC cell models, and analyses of mitochondrial positioning, cristae architecture and respirometry, the authors provide solid evidence that MIRO1 couples mitochondrial motility with ATP production to meet the energetic demands of the G1/S cell cycle transition. However, a component of the metabolic analyses are suboptimal and would benefit from more robust methodologies. The work is valuable because it links mitochondrial dynamics to vascular remodelling and suggests MIRO1 as a therapeutic target for vasoproliferative diseases, although whether pharmacological targeting of MIRO1 in vivo can effectively reduce neointima after carotid injury has not been explored. This paper will be of interest to those working on VSMCs and mitochondrial biology.

      Strengths:

      The strength of the study lies in its comprehensive approach assessing the role of MIRO1 in VSMC proliferation in vivo, ex vivo and importantly in human cells. The subject provides mechanistic links between MIRO1-mediated regulation of mitochondrial mobility and optimal respiratory chain function to cell cycle progression and proliferation. Finally, the findings are potentially clinically relevant given the presence of MIRO1 in human atherosclerotic plaques and the available small molecule MIRO1.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) High-resolution respirometry (Oroboros) to determine mitochondrial ETC activity in permeabilized VSMCs would be informative.

      (2) Therapeutic targeting of MIRO1 failed to prevent neointima formation, however, the technical difficulties of such an experiment is appreciated.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study addresses the role of MIRO1 in vascular smooth muscle cell proliferation, proposing a link between MIRO1 loss and altered growth due to disrupted mitochondrial dynamics and function. While the findings are useful for understanding the importance of mitochondrial positioning and function in this specific cell type, the main bioenergetic and mechanistic claims are not strongly supported.

      Strengths:

      This study focuses on an important regulatory protein, MIRO1, and its role in vascular smooth muscle cell (VSMC) proliferation, a relatively underexplored context.

      This study explores the link between smooth muscle cell growth, mitochondrial dynamics, and bioenergetics, which is a significant area for both basic and translational biology.

      The use of both in vivo and in vitro systems provides a useful experimental framework to interrogate MIRO1 function in this context.

      Weaknesses:

      The proposed link between MIRO1 and respiratory supercomplex biogenesis or function is not clearly defined.

      Completeness and integration of mitochondrial assays is marginal, undermining the strength of the conclusions regarding oxidative phosphorylation.

      We thank the reviewers for their thoughtful and constructive feedback. We appreciate their recognition of our work’s value and the improvements made in this revised version.

      We are particularly grateful to Reviewer 3 for their detailed and insightful comments, which identified errors we (and other reviewers) had unfortunately overlooked. To address these concerns and ensure the manuscript meets the high standards of clarity and rigor we aim for, we have made additional corrections and refinements.

      As part of this process, we conducted a thorough review of the original source files. This was especially important given that the project spanned from 2018 to 2025, and many co-authors have since left their previous positions.

      We appreciate the opportunity to resubmit this manuscript and are confident that these updates fully address the concerns raised by the reviewer and the editorial team.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) I still do not see the data in WB 2G reflecting the quantification in 2H and 2I. Moreover, the authors state they performed 1 additional experiment, but it appears not to have been included in the analysis of 2H and 2I since the graphs remained the same from the last version of the manuscript.

      We apologize for this oversight. The additional experiment has now been incorporated into the analysis for Figures 2H and 2I, and the graphs have been updated accordingly. While we had uploaded the new blot, we inadvertently forgot to update the analysis graphs. Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

      (2) The authors talk several times about "supercomplexes 1 and 2" without testing their precise composition (there is a ton of literature about SC species in several mouse cell types, and separate BN-PAGE immunoblotting of individual MRC complexes would precisely define them in this context)

      We agree with the reviewer that this is an important point. However, structural differences between supercomplexes were outside the scope of this paper, and we did not perform such analyses. That said, examining the precise composition of supercomplexes could be a valuable direction for future work.

      (3) Steady-state levels of MRC subunits do not match the observations from BN-PAGE results. That might be potentially interpreted and explained by the possible accumulation of intermediates but this is not explored.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s observation. There is indeed a strong possibility that differences in the expression of structural components of mitochondrial complexes exist between WT and Miro1 -/- cells. However, in this study, we chose to focus on assessing potential differences in the enzymatic activities of the complexes rather than examining their structural composition. Exploring the accumulation of intermediates and structural differences could be an interesting avenue for future investigations.

      (4) Citrate synthase normalization of kinetic enzyme activities is claimed, yet it is not shown in any graph and no description of the method is provided.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for pointing out this discrepancy. Upon careful review, we realized that our statement regarding citrate synthase normalization of kinetic enzyme activities in the last revised version was made in error. This was a miscommunication between co-authors, and we did not perform citrate synthase normalization. Instead, the normalization was performed against protein concentration, determined by the BCA assay as described in the manuscript. We regret this oversight and appreciate the opportunity to clarify this.

      (5) Complex I activity is still wrongfully described as NADPH oxidation in the methods

      We corrected this error.

      (6) The authors state 'Thank you for this comment. We believe this is due to a technical issue. Complex IV can be challenging to detect consistently, as its visibility is highly dependent on sample preparation conditions. In this specific case, we suspect that the buffer used during the isolation process may have influenced the detection of Complex IV'. I do not understand this, I find this justification insufficient and not substantiated by any experimental evidence. What buffer has been used for isolation? There are hundreds of protocols for isolation of intact mitochondria and MRC complexes. Also, DDM and digitonin are the gold-standard detergents for MRC complexes isolation and separation via BN-PAGE.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. We have revised the response to clarify the exact experimental conditions and to provide supporting data.

      For BN-PAGE, mitochondrial fractions purified from cultured VSMCs or aortic tissue were prepared using a standard protocol (now explicitly detailed in the Methods). Briefly, mitochondria were resuspended in 6-aminocaproic acid (ACA) buffer containing 750 mM ACA, 50 mM Bis-Tris (pH 7.0), and protease inhibitors. Forty micrograms of mitochondrial protein were solubilized with 1.5% digitonin, using a final detergent-to-protein ratio of 8:1, and incubated on ice for 20 minutes prior to clarification by centrifugation at 16,000 g for 30 minutes at 4°C. Thus, consistent with established standards, digitonin—one of the gold-standard detergents for MRC complex solubilization and BN-PAGE—was used throughout.

      Despite using these widely accepted conditions, we found that detection of fully assembled Complex IV by BN-PAGE was inconsistent, a limitation that has been reported by others and is known to be sensitive to mitochondrial source, tissue type, and solubilization efficiency. To address this directly and avoid over-interpretation, we assessed Complex IV integrity by examining core subunits. As shown in Figure 6—figure supplement 1 (panels B and C), expression levels of MTCO1 and MTCO2, both essential core components of Complex IV, do not differ significantly between WT and Miro1-/- cells, supporting the conclusion that Complex IV abundance is not altered.

      We have revised the manuscript to clarify these methodological details and to explicitly state that conclusions regarding Complex IV are based on subunit analysis rather than BN-PAGE visualization alone.

      (7) Complex V IGA also does not seem to reflect its quantification.

      Thank you for highlighting this concern. To address it, we will include the numerical data alongside the figures to ensure clarity and alignment with our findings. We hope this will provide a more comprehensive understanding and resolve any ambiguity.

      (8) Figure 6 supplement 1, the authors state 'we concentrated on ETC1 and 5 and performed experiments in cells after expression of MIRO1 WT and MIRO1 mutants'. I do not understand, what background is being used? what mutants are being expressed? all the figures refer to Miro1 -/- which is, according to standard genetic nomenclature, a loss-of-function allele (KO).

      Thank you for your comment. To clarify, we first infected MIRO1fl/fl VSMCs with an adenovirus expressing the DNA recombinase Cre or a control adenovirus. Cells infected with the adenovirus expressing Cre are labeled as MIRO1-/- cells. In these MIRO1-/- cells, we then introduced MIRO1 wild type (WT) and MIRO1 mutants via adenoviral expression.

      The mutants include one lacking the transmembrane domain (MIRO1-ΔTM), and another in which the two EF hands of MIRO1 were point-mutated (MIRO1-KK). MIRO1-WT is denoted as Ad WT, the mutant MIRO1-KK as Ad KK, and MIRO1-ΔTM as Ad ΔTM in the figures. We hope this explanation clarifies the experimental background and nomenclature used.

      (9) Figure 6 supplement 1B, no normalization is provided (e.g. VDAC, TOM20 etc.). Interestingly, VDAC is then used to normalize the data in C-D-E-F-G. Also, why is MIRO1 detected in lane 4? Is the mutant stable or not? There is zero signal in A.

      Thank you very much for pointing out that the immunoblot for VDAC1 was missing in Figure 6—Supplement 1B. This figure has been reviewed several times, and unfortunately, this error was not detected. We sincerely apologize for this oversight. We have now revised the figure to include the immunoblot for VDAC1 to address this issue.

      Regarding the detection of MIRO1 in lane 4, we confirm that the "mutant" is not stable. To generate MIRO1 knockout cells, aortic smooth muscle cells from MIRO1fl/fl mice were isolated and cultured, followed by infection with an adenovirus expressing Cre. As these are primary cells and the deletion was induced by Cre expression, the recombination efficiency can vary, which is reflected in the variability observed in lanes 2 and 4 of the immunoblot.

      (10) Why are COX4 levels so low in the 2nd replicate in 7A? the authors 'We also performed anti-VDAC immunoblots on the same membranes as alternative loading control (see image below)'. I could not find the image.

      Thank you for your comment. The second pair of samples in Figure 7A is from a different preparation of mitochondria. In our experimental design, a control sample and a MIRO1 knockdown sample were processed side by side and run next to each other on the immunoblot.

      Regarding the anti-VDAC immunoblot, the image was included in our response to reviewers during the previous revision, as we did not believe it altered the message conveyed by the COX4 blot. However, to ensure clarity and address your concern, we have now included the anti-VDAC immunoblot directly in the figure. We hope this addition resolves any ambiguity and provides further confidence in the data presented.

      (11) The proposed interaction between MIRO1 and NDUFA9 is very difficult to reconcile, as the two proteins reside in distinct mitochondrial compartments. MIRO1 is anchored to the outer mitochondrial membrane (OMM), with its functional domains facing the cytosol, whereas NDUFA9 is a matrix-facing accessory subunit of mitochondrial Complex I, positioned at the interface between the N- and Q-modules.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comment and agree that MIRO1 and NDUFA9 occupy distinct mitochondrial compartments. MIRO1 is anchored to the outer mitochondrial membrane with cytosol-facing domains, whereas NDUFA9 is a matrix-facing accessory subunit of Complex I at the N/Q-module interface.

      Our data do not suggest a stable, constitutive interaction within intact mitochondria. Rather, the observed association likely reflects an indirect, transient, or context-dependent interaction, potentially occurring during mitochondrial stress, remodeling, or turnover. Such associations may be mediated by multi-protein complexes spanning mitochondrial membranes, dynamic contact sites, or post-lysis interactions detected under experimental conditions. Increasing evidence supports functional coupling between outer mitochondrial membrane proteins and inner membrane or matrix pathways without direct physical binding.

      Additional comments:

      (12) All the raw data should be provided to the readers (uncropped and annotated WB, IHC images, numerical data with statistics applied).

      We agree with the reviewer and appreciate the emphasis on transparency. In accordance with eLife submission requirements, we have provided all raw data. The Source Data files associated with each figure now include uncropped and annotated immunoblots, as well as the numerical source data for all quantified analyses.

      During the compilation of these materials, we were unable to locate the original source files for Figure 2A. The control experiment depicted in the previous version, which demonstrates in vitro recombination, was performed in 2018. However, this experiment was repeated several times throughout the project. Therefore, to ensure the manuscript remains complete, we have replaced this panel with a representative immunoblot from a similar experiment. Additionally, during our review, we discovered a labeling error in Figure 3D and G. We have corrected these figures to ensure accuracy.

      All source files have been provided and carefully labeled to facilitate independent evaluation.

    1. Author response:

      Point-by-point description of the revisions

      Reviewer #1:

      Thank you very much for considering that our manuscript evaluates an important question and that the reagents used are well prepared and characterized. We also much appreciate that you consider the information generated as potentially useful for those studying HIV infection processes and strategies to prevent infection.

      (1) While a single particle tracking routine was applied to the data, it's not clear how the signal from a single GFP was defined and if movement during the 100 ms acquisition time impacts this. My concern would be that the routine is tracking fluctuations, and these are related to single particle dynamics, it appears from the movies that the density or the GFP tagged receptors in the cells is too high to allow clear tracking of single molecules. SPT with GFP is very difficult due to bleaching and relatively low quantum yield. Current efforts in this direction that are more successful include using SNAP tags with very photostable organic fluorophores. The data likely does mean something is happening with the receptor, but they need to be more conservative about the interpretation.

      Some of the paradoxical effects might be better understood through deeper analysis of the SPT data, particularly investigation of active transport and more detailed analysis of "immobile" objects. Comments on early figures illustrate how this could be approached. This would require selecting acquisitions where the GFP density is low enough for SPT and performing a more detailed analysis, but this may be difficult to do with GFP.

      When the authors discuss clusters of <2 or >3, how do they calibrate the value of GFP and the impact of diffusion on the measurement. One way to approach this might be single molecules measurements of dilute samples on glass vs in a supported lipid bilayer to map the streams of true immobility to diffusion at >1 µm2/sec.

      We fully understand the reviewer’s apprehensions regarding the application of these high-end biophysical techniques, in particular the associated complexity of the data analysis. We provide below extensive explanations on our methodology, which we hope will satisfactorily address all of the reviewer’s concerns.

      We would first like to emphasize that the experimental conditions and the quantitative analysis used in our current experiments are similar to the established protocols and methodologies applied by our group previously (Martinez-Muñoz et al. Mol. Cell, 2018; García-Cuesta et al. PNAS, 2022; Gardeta et al. Frontiers in Immunol., 2022; García-Cuesta et al. eLife, 2024; Gardeta et al. Cell. Commun. Signal., 2025) and by others (Calebiro et al. PNAS, 2013; Jaqaman et al. Cell, 2011; Mattila et al. Immunity, 2013; Torreno-Pina et al. PNAS, 2014; Torreno-Pina et al. PNAS, 2016).

      As SPT (single-particle tracking) experiments require low-expressing conditions in order to follow individual trajectories (Manzo & García-Parajo Rep. Prog. Phys., 2015), we transiently transfected Jurkat CD4<sup>+</sup> cells with CXCR4-AcGFP or CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup>-AcGFP. At 24 h post-transfection, cells expressing low CXCR4-AcGFP levels were selected by a MoFlo Astrios Cell Sorter (BeckmanCoulter) to ensure optimal conditions for SPT. Using Dako Qifikit (DakoCytomation), we quantified the number of CXCR4 receptors and found ~8,500 – 22,000 CXCR4-AcGFP receptors/cell, which correspond to a particle density ~2 – 4.5 particles/µm<sup>2</sup> (Author response image 1) and are similar to the expression levels found in primary human lymphocytes.

      Author response image 1.

      Purified AcGFP monomeric protein was immobilized on glass at various concentrations. Dependency of the distribution of particle components on particle density was calculated; >95% were monomeric single particles at 2.0-4.5 particles/µm<sup>2</sup>. This range of particle density was used to analyze the dynamics of CXCR4-AcGFP, or CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup>-AcGFP single particles on JKCD4 cells.

      These cells were resuspended in RPMI supplemented with 2% FBS, NaPyr and L-glutamine and plated on 96-well plates for at least 2 h. Cells were centrifuged and resuspended in a buffer with HBSS, 25 mM HEPES, 2% FBS (pH 7.3) and plated on glass-bottomed microwell dishes (MatTek Corp.) coated with fibronectin (FN) (Sigma-Aldrich, 20 µg/ml, 1 h, 37°C). To observe the effect of the ligand, we coated dishes with FN + CXCL12; FN + X4-gp120 or FN + VLPs, as described in material and methods; cells were incubated (20 min, 37°C, 5% CO<sub>2</sub>) before image acquisition.

      For SPT measurements, we use a total internal reflection fluorescence (TIRF) microscope (Leica AM TIRF inverted) equipped with an EM-CCD camera (Andor DU 885-CS0-#10-VP), a 100x oilimmersion objective (HCX PL APO 100x/1.46 NA) and a 488-nm diode laser. The microscope was equipped with incubator and temperature control units; experiments were performed at 37°C with 5% CO<sub>2</sub>. To minimize photobleaching effects before image acquisition, cells were located and focused using the bright field, and a fine focus adjustment in TIRF mode was made at 5% laser power, an intensity insufficient for single-particle detection that ensures negligible photobleaching. Image sequences of individual particles (500 frames) were acquired at 49% laser power with a frame rate of 10 Hz (100 ms/frame). The penetration depth of the evanescent field used was 90 nm.

      We performed automatic tracking of individual particles using a very well established and common algorithm first described by Jaqaman (Jaqaman et al. Nat. Methods, 2008). Nevertheless, we would stress that we implemented this algorithm in a supervised fashion, i.e., we visually inspect each individual trajectory reconstruction in a separate window. Indeed, this algorithm is not able to quantify merging or splitting events.

      We follow each individual fluorescence spot frame-by-frame using a three-by-three matrix around the centroid position of the spot, as it diffuses on the cell membrane. To minimize the effect of photon fluctuations, we averaged the intensity over 20 frames. Nevertheless, to assure the reviewer that most of the single molecule traces last for at least 50 frames (i.e., 5 seconds), we provide the following data and arguments. We currently measure the photobleaching times from individual CD86-AcGFP spots exclusively having one single photobleaching step to guarantee that we are looking at individual CD86-AcGFP molecules. The distribution of the photobleaching times is shown below (Author response image 2). Fitting of the distribution to a single exponential decay renders a t0 value of ~5 s. Thus, with 20 frames averaging, we are essentially measuring the whole population of monomers in our experiments. As the survival time of a molecule before photobleaching will strongly depend on the excitation conditions, we used low excitation conditions (2 mW laser power, which corresponds to an excitation power density of ~0.015 kW/cm<sup>2</sup> considering the illumination region) and longer integration times (100 ms/frame) to increase the signal-to-background for single GFP detection while minimizing photobleaching.

      Author response image 2.

      Single molecule photobleaching times measured directly from single molecule trajectories of CD86-AcGFP, considering only traces that exhibit single molecule photobleaching steps. The experimental data are shown in gray bars (n=273 trajectories over 3 independent experiments). The red line corresponds to a single exponential decay fitting of the experimental data, from where t<sub>o</sub> has been extracted.

      To infer the stoichiometry of receptor complexes, we also perform single-step photobleaching analysis of the TIRF trajectories to establish the existence of different populations of monomers, dimers, trimers and nanoclusters and extract their percentage. Some representative trajectories of CXCR4-AcGFP with the number of steps detected are shown in new Supplementary Figure 1.  

      The emitted fluorescence (arbitrary units, a.u.) of each spot in the cells is quantified and normalized to the intensity emitted by monomeric CD86-AcGFP spots that strictly showed a single photobleaching step (Dorsch et al. Nat. Methods, 2009). We have preferred to use CD86-AcGFP in cells rather than AcGFP on glass to exclude any potential effect on the different photodynamics exhibited by AcGFP when bound directly to glass. We have also previously shown pharmacological controls to exclude CXCL12-mediated receptor clustering due to internalization processes (Martinez-Muñoz et al. Mol. Cell, 2018) that, together with the evaluation of single photobleaching steps and intensity histograms, allow us to exclude the presence of vesicles in our data. Thus, the dimers, trimers and nanoclusters found in our data do correspond to CXCR4 molecules on the cell surface. Finally, distribution of monomeric particle intensities, obtained from the photobleaching analysis, was analyzed by Gaussian fitting, rendering a mean value of 980 ± 86 a.u. This value was then used as the monomer reference to estimate the number of receptors per particle in both cases, CXCR4-AcGFP and CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup>-AcGFP (new Supplementary Figure 1).

      (2) I understand that the CXCL12 or gp120 are attached to the substrate with fibronectin for adhesion. I'm less clear how how that VLPs are integrated. Were these added to cells already attached to FN?

      For TIRF-M experiments, cells were adhered to glass-bottomed microwell dishes coated with fibronectin, fibronectin + CXCL12, fibronectin + X4-gp120, or fibronectin + VLPs. As for CXCL12 and X4-gp120, the VLPs were attached to fibronectin taking advantage of electrostatic interactions. To clarify the integration of the VLPs in these assays, we have stained the microwell dishes coated with fibronectin and those coated with fibronectin + VLPs with wheat germ agglutinin (WGA) coupled to Alexa647 (Author response image 3) and evaluated the staining by confocal microscopy. These results indicate the presence of carbohydrates on the VLPs and are, therefore, indicative of the presence of VLPs on the fibronectin layer.

      Author response image 3.

      Representative confocal images of microwell dishes coated with fibronectin ((left panel) or fibronectin + VLPs (right panel)) and stained with wheat germ agglutinin (WGA) coupled to Alexa647. Bar scale 1µm.

      Moreover, it is important to remark that the effect of the VLPs on CXCR4 behavior at the cell surface observed by TIRF-M confirmed that the VLPs remained attached to the substrate during the experiment.

      (3) Fig 1A - The classification of particle tracks into mobile and immobile is overly simplistic description that goes back to bulk FRAP measurements and it not really applicable to single molecule tracking data, where it's rare to see anything that is immobile and alive. An alternative classification strategy uses sub-diffusion, normal diffusion and active diffusion (or active transport) to descriptions and particles can transition between these classes over the tracking period. Fig 1B- this data might be better displayed as histograms showing distributions within the different movement classes.

      In agreement with the reviewer’s commentary, the majority of the particles detected in our TIRFM experiments were indeed mobile. However, we also detected a variable, and biologically appreciable, percentage of immobile particles depending on the experimental condition analyzed (Figure 1A in the main manuscript). To establish a stringent threshold for identifying these immobile particles under our specific experimental conditions, we used purified monomeric AcGFP proteins immobilized on glass coverslips. Our analysis demonstrated that 95% of these immobilized proteins showed a diffusion coefficient £0.0015 µm<sup>2</sup>/s; consequently, this value was established as the cutoff to distinguish immobile from mobile trajectories. While the observation of truly immobile entities in a dynamic, living system is rare, the presence of these particles under our conditions is biologically significant. For instance, the detection of large, immobile receptor nanoclusters at the plasma membrane is entirely consistent with facilitating key cellular processes, such as enabling the robust signaling cascade triggered by ligand binding or promoting the crucial events required for efficient viral entry into the cells.

      Regarding the mobile receptors (defined as those with D<sub>1-4</sub> values exceeding 0.0015 µm<sup>2</sup>/s), we observed distinct diffusion profiles derived from mean square displacement (MSD) plots (Figure V) (Manzo & García-Parajo Rep. Prog. Phys., 2015), which were further classified based on motion, using the moment scaling spectrum (MSS) (Ewers et al. PNAS, 2005). Under all experimental conditions, the majority of mobile particles, ~85%, showed confined diffusion: for example under basal conditions, without ligand addition, ~90% of mobile particles showed confined diffusion, ~8.5% showed Brownian-free diffusion and ~1.5% exhibited directed motion (new Supplementary Figure 5A in the main manuscript). These data have been also included in the revised manuscript to show, in detail, the dynamic parameters of CXCR4.

      Due to the space constraints, it is very difficult to include all the figures generated. However, to ensure comprehensive assessment and transparency (for the purpose of this review), we have included below representative plots of the MSD values as a function of time from individual trajectories, showing different types of motion obtained in our experiments (Author response image 4).

      Author response image 4.

      Representative MSD plots from individual trajectories of CXCR4AcGFP detected by SPT-TIRF in resting JKCD4 cells showing different types of motion: A) confined, B) Brownian/Free, C) direct transport.

      (4) Fig 1C,D - It would be helpful to see a plot of D vs MSI at a single particle level. In comparing C and D I'm surprised there is not a larger difference between CXCL12 and X4-gp120. It would also be very important to see the behaviour of X4-gp120 on the CXCR4 deficient Jurkat that would provide a picture of CD4 diffusion. The CXCR4 nanoclustering related to the X4-gp120 could be dominated by CD4 behaviour.

      As previously described, all analyses were performed under SPT conditions (see previous response to point 1). Figure 1C details the percentage of oligomers (>3 receptors/particle) calibrated using Jurkat CD4<sup>+</sup> cells electroporated with monomeric CD86-AcGFP (Dorsch et al. Nat. Methods, 2009). The monomer value was determined by analyzing photobleaching steps as described in our previous response to point 1.

      In our experiments, we observed a trend towards a higher number of oligomers upon activation with CXCL12 compared with X4-gp120. This trend was further supported by measurements of Mean Spot Intensity. However, the values are also influenced by the number of larger spots, which represents a minor fraction of the total spots detected.

      The differences between the effect triggered by CXCL12 or X4-gp120 might also be attributed to a combination of factors related to differences in ligand concentration, their structure, and even to the technical requirements of TIRF-M. Both ligands are in contact with the substrate (fibronectin) and the specific nature of this interaction may differ between both ligands and influence their accessibility to CXCR4. Moreover, the requirement of the prior binding of gp120 to CD4 before CXCR4 engagement, in contrast to the direct binding of CXCL12 to CXCR4, might also contribute to the differences observed.

      We previously reported that CXCL12-mediated CXCR4 dynamics are modulated by CD4 coexpression (Martinez-Muñoz et al. Mol. Cell, 2018). We have now detected the formation of CD4 heterodimers with both CXCR4 and CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup>, and found that these conformations are influenced by gp120-VLPs. In the present manuscript, we did not focus on CD4 clustering as it has been extensively characterized previously (Barrero-Villar et al. J. Cell Sci., 2009; JiménezBaranda et al. Nat. Cell. Biol., 2007; Yuan et al. Viruses, 2021). Regarding the investigation of the effects of X4-gp120 on CXCR4-deficient Jurkat cells, which would provide a picture of CD4 diffusion, we would note that a previous report has already addressed this issue using single molecule super-resolution imaging, and revealed that CD4 molecules on the cell membrane are predominantly found as individual molecules or small clusters of up to 4 molecules, and that the size and number of these clusters increases upon virus binding or gp120 activation (Yuan et al. Viruses, 2021).

      (5) Fig S1D- This data is really interesting. However, if both the CD4 and the gp120 have his tags they need to be careful as poly-His tags can bind weakly to cells and increasing valency could generate some background. So, they should make the control is fair here. Ideally, using non-his tagged person of sCD4 and gp120 would be needed ideal or they need a His-tagged Fab binding to gp120 that doesn't induce CXCR4 binding.

      New Supplementary Figure 2D shows that X4-gp120 does not bind Daudi cells (these cells do not express CD4) in the absence of soluble CD4. While the reviewer is correct to state that both proteins contain a Histidine Tag, cell binding is only detected if X4-gp120 binds sCD4. Nonetheless, we have included in the revised Supplementary Figure 2D a control showing the negative binding of sCD4 to Daudi cells in the absence of X4-gp120. Altogether, these results confirm that only sCD4/X4-gp120 complexes bind these cells.

      (6) Fig S4- Panel D needs a scale bar. I can't figure out what I'm being shown without this.

      Apologies. A scale bar has been included in this panel (new Supplementary Figure 6D).

      Reviewer #2:

      (1) This study is well described in both the main text and figures. Introduction provides adequate background and cites the literature appropriately. Materials and Methods are detailed. Authors are careful in their interpretations, statistical comparisons, and include necessary controls in each experiment. The Discussion presents a reasonable interpretation of the results. Overall, there are no major weaknesses with this manuscript.

      We very much appreciate the positive comments of the reviewer regarding the broad interest and strength of our work.

      (2) NL4-3deltaIN and immature HIV virions are found to have less associated gp120 relative to wild-type particles. It is not obvious why this is the case for the deltaIN particles or genetically immature particles. Can the authors provide possible explanations? (A prior paper was cited, Chojnacki et al Science, 2012 but can the current authors provide their own interpretation.)

      Our conclusion from the data is actually exactly the opposite. As shown in Figure 2D, the gp120 staining intensity was higher for NL4-3DIN particles (1,786 a.u.) than for gp120-VLPs (1,223 a.u.), indicating lower expression of Env proteins in the latter. Furthermore, analysis of gp120 intensity per particle (Figure 2E) confirmed that gp120-VLPs contained fewer gp120 molecules per particle than NL4-3DIN virions. These levels were comparable with, or even lower than, those observed in primary HIV-1 viruses (Zhu et al. Nature, 2006). This reduction was a direct consequence of the method used to generate the VLPs, as our goal was to produce viral particles with minimal gp120 content to prevent artifacts in receptor clustering that might occur using high levels of Env proteins in the VLPs to activate the receptors.  

      This misunderstanding may arise from the fact that we also compared Gag condensation and Env distribution on the surface of gp120-VLPs with those observed in genetically immature particles and integrase-defective NL4-3ΔIN virions, which served as controls. STED microscopy data revealed differences in Env distribution between gp120-VLPs and NL4-3ΔIN virions, supporting the classification of gp120-VLPs as mature particles (Figure 2 A,B).

      Reviewer #3:

      We thank the reviewer for considering that our work offers new insights into the spatial organization of receptors during HIV-1 entry and infection and that the manuscript is well written, and the findings significant.

      (1) For mechanistic basis of gp120-CXCR4 versus CXCL12-CXCR4 differences. Provide additional structural or biochemical evidence to support the claim that gp120 stabilises a distinct CXCR4 conformation compared to CXCL12. If feasible, include molecular modelling, mutagenesis, or crosslinking experiments to corroborate the proposed conformational differences.

      We appreciate the opportunity to clarify this point. The specific claim that gp120 stabilizes a conformation of CXCR4 that is distinct from the CXCL12-bound state was not explicitly stated in our manuscript, although we agree that our data strongly support this possibility. It is important to consider that CXCL12 binds directly to CXCR4, whereas gp120 requires prior sequential binding to CD4, and its subsequent interaction is with a CXCR4 molecule that is already forming part of the CD4/CXCR4 complex, as demonstrated by our FRET experiments and supported by previous studies (Zaitseva et al. J. Leuk. Biol., 2005; Busillo & Benovic Biochim. Biophys. Acta, 2007; Martínez-Muñoz et al. PNAS, 2014). This difference makes it inherently complex to compare the conformational changes induced by gp120 and CXCL12 on CXCR4.

      However, our findings show that both stimuli induce oligomerization of CXCR4, a phenomenon not observed when mutant CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup> was exposed to the chemokine CXCL12 (García-Cuesta et al. PNAS, 2022).

      (1) CXCL12 induced oligomerization of CXCR4 but did not affect the dynamics of CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup> (Martinez-Muñoz et al. Mol. Cell, 2018; García-Cuesta et al. PNAS, 2022). By contrast, X4-gp120 and the corresponding VLPs—which require initial binding to CD4 to engage the chemokine receptor—stabilized oligomers of both CXCR4 and CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup>.

      (2) FRET analysis revealed distinct FRET<sub>50</sub> values for CD4/CXCR4 (2.713) and CD4/CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup> (0.399) complexes, suggesting different conformations for each complex.

      (3) Consistent with previous reports (Balabanian et al. Blood, 2005; Zmajkovicova et al. Front. Immunol., 2024; García-Cuesta et al. PNAS, 2022), the molecular mechanisms activated by CXCL12 are distinct when comparing CXCR4 with CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup>. For instance, CXCL12 induces internalization of CXCR4, but not of mutant CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup>. Conversely, X4-gp120 triggers approximately 25% internalization of both receptors. Similarly, CXCL12 does not promote CD4 internalization in cells co-expressing CXCR4 or CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup>, whereas X4-gp120 does, although CD4 internalization was significantly higher in cells co-expressing CXCR4.

      These findings suggest that CD4 influences the conformation and the oligomerization state of both co-receptors. To further support this hypothesis, we have conducted new in silico molecular modeling of CD4 in complex with either CXCR4 or its mutant CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup> using AlphaFold 3.0 (Abramson et al. Nature, 2024). The server was provided with both sequences, and the interaction between the two molecules for each protein was requested. It produced a number of solutions, which were then analyzed using the software ChimeraX 1.10 (Meng et al. Protein Sci., 2023). CXCR4 and its mutant, CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup> bound to CD4, were superposed using one of the CD4 molecules from each complex, with the aim of comparing the spatial positioning of CD4 molecules when interacting with CXCR4.

      Author response image 5.

      CD4/CXCR4 complexes were superimposed with CD4/CXCR4 complexes (left panel) or CD4/CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup> complexes (right panels). Arrows indicate the CD4 molecule used as reference for the superimposing.

      As illustrated in Author response image 5, the superposition of the CD4/CXCR4 complexes was complete. However, when CD4/CXCR4 complexes were superimposed with CD4/CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup> complexes using the same CD4 molecule as a reference, indicated by an arrow in the figure, a clear structural deviation became evident. The main structural difference detected was the positioning of the CD4 transmembrane domains when interacting with either the wild-type or mutant CXCR4. While in complexes with CXCR4, the angle formed by the lines connecting residues E416 at the C-terminus end of CD4 with N196 in CXCR4 was 12°, for the CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup> complex, this angle increased to 24°, resulting in a distinct orientation of the CD4 extracellular domain (Author response image 6).

      Author response image 6.

      Comparison of the angle between the transmembrane domains of CD4 in CXCR4 WT and WHIM complexes. The angle between residues N196 from one CXCR4 molecule and E416 from the two CD4 dimer molecules was calculated for the CXCR4 WT (12°) and WHIM (24°) complexes to demonstrate the difference in CD4 positioning.

      To further analyze the models obtained, we employed PDBsum software (Laskowski & Thornton Protein Sci., 2021) to predict the CD4/CXCR4 interface residues. Data indicated that at least 50% of the interaction residues differed when the CD4/CXCR4 interaction surface was compared with that of the CD4/CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup> complex (Author response image 7). It is important to note that while some hydrogen bonds were present in both complex models, others were exclusive to one of them. For instance, whereas Cys<sup>394</sup>(CD4)-Tyr<sup>139</sup> and Lys<sup>299</sup>(CD4)-Glu<sup>272</sup> were present in both CD4/CXCR4 and CD4/CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup> complexes, the pairs Asn<sup>337</sup>(CD4)-Ser<sup>27</sup>(CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup>) and Lys<sup>325</sup>(CD4)-Asp<sup>26</sup>(CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup>) were only found in CD4/CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup> complexes.

      Author response image 7.

      Interacting residues at the CD4/CXCR4 interface. The panel displays the interface residues from the CXCR4 and CD4 oligomer. CD4 residues labeled with a red sphere show the interacting residues present in both CXCR4-WT and –WHIM hetero- oligomers. The continuous red lines represent a saline bridge, while the blue lines indicate a hydrogen bond and the dashed red lines represent non-bonded interactions. As illustrated in the figure, half of the interacting residues differ between the WT and WHIM models, indicating that the interacting surfaces are also distinct.

      These findings, which are consistent with our FRET results, suggest distinct interaction surfaces between CD4 and the two chemokine receptors. Overall, these results are compatible with differences in the spatial conformation adopted by these complexes.

      (2) For Empty VLP effects on CXCR4 dynamics: Explore potential causes for the observed effects of Envdeficient VLPs. It's valuable to include additional controls such as particles from non-producer cells, lipid composition analysis, or blocking experiments to assess nonspecific interactions.

      As VLPs are complex entities, we thought that the relevant results should be obtained comparing the effects of Env(-) VLPs with gp120-VLPs. Therefore, we would first remark that regardless of the effect of Env(-) VLPs on CXCR4 dynamics, the most evident finding in this study is the strong effect of gp120-VLPs compared with control Env(-) VLPs. Nevertheless, regarding the effect of the Env(-) VLPs compared with medium, we propose several hypotheses. As several virions can be tethered to the cell surface via glycosaminoglycans (GAGs), we hypothesized that VLPs-GAGs interactions might indirectly influence the dynamics of CXCR4 and CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup> at the plasma membrane. Additionally, membrane fluidity is essential for receptor dynamics, therefore VLPs interactions with proteins, lipids or any other component of the cell membrane could also alter receptor behavior. It is well known that lipid rafts participate in the interaction of different viruses with target cells (Nayak & Hu Subcell. Biochem., 2004; Manes et al. Nat. Rev. Immunol., 2003; Rioethmullwer et al. Biochim. Biophys. Acta, 2006) and both the lipid composition and the presence of co-expressed proteins modulate ligand-mediated receptor oligomerization (Gardeta et al. Frontiers in Immunol., 2022; Gardeta et al. Cell. Commun. Signal., 2025). We have thus performed Raster Image Correlation Spectroscopy (RICS) analysis to assess membrane fluidity through membrane diffusion measurements on cells treated with Env(-) VLPs.

      Jurkat cells were labeled with Di-4-ANEPPDHG and seeded on FN and on FN + VLPs prior to analysis by RICS on confocal microscopy. The results indicated no significant differences in membrane diffusion under the treatment tested, thereby discarding an effect of VLPs on overall membrane fluidity (Author response image 8).

      Author response image 8.

      VLPs treatment does not alter cell membrane fluidity. Diffusion values obtained by RICS from JKCD4X4 cells. (n = 3, with at least 10 cells analyzed per experiment and condition; n.s., not significant).

      Nonetheless, these results do not rule out other non-specific interactions of Env(-) VLPs with membrane proteins that could affect receptor dynamics. For instance, it has been reported that Ctype lectin DC-SIGN acts as an efficient docking site for HIV-1 (Cambi et al. J. Cell. Biol., 2004; Wu & KewalRamani Nat. Rev. Immunol., 2006). However, a detailed investigation of these possible mechanisms is beyond the scope of this manuscript.

      (3) For Direct link between clustering and infection efficiency - Test whether disruption of CXCR4 clustering (e.g., using actin cytoskeleton inhibitors, membrane lipid perturbants, or clustering-deficient mutants) alters HIV-1 fusion or infection efficiency.

      Designing experiments using tools that disrupt receptor clustering by interacting with the receptors themselves is difficult and challenging, as these tools bind the receptor and can therefore alter parameters such as its conformation and/or its distribution at the cell membrane, as well as affect some cellular processes such as HIV-1 attachment and cell entry. Moreover, effects on actin polymerization or lipids dynamics can affect not only receptor clustering but also impact on other molecular mechanisms essential for efficient infection.

      Many previous reports have, nonetheless, indirectly correlated receptor clustering with cell infection efficiency. Cholesterol plays a key role in the entry of several viruses. Its depletion in primary cells and cell lines has been shown to confer strong resistance to HIV-1-mediated syncytium formation and infection by both CXCR4- and CCR5-tropic viruses (Liao et al. AIDS Res. Hum. Retroviruses, 2021). Moderate cholesterol depletion also reduces CXCL12-induced CXCR4 oligomerization and alters receptor dynamics (Gardeta et al. Cell. Commun. Signal., 2025). By restricting the lateral diffusion of CD4, sphingomyelinase treatment inhibits HIV-1 fusion (Finnegan et al. J. Virol., 2007). Depletion of sphingomyelins also disrupts CXCL12mediated CXCR4 oligomerization and its lateral diffusion (Gardeta et al. Front Immunol., 2022). Additional reports highlight the role of actin polymerization at the viral entry site, which facilitates clustering of HIV-1 receptors, a crucial step for membrane fusion (Serrano et al. Biol. Cell., 2023). Blockade of actin dynamics by Latrunculin A treatment, a drug that sequesters actin monomers and prevents its polymerization, blocks CXCL12-induced CXCR4 dynamics and oligomerization (Martínez-Muñoz et al. Mol. Cell, 2018).

      Altogether, these findings strongly support our hypothesis of a direct link between CXCR4 clustering and the efficiency of HIV-1 infection.

      (4) CD4/CXCR4 co-endocytosis hypothesis - Support the proposed model with direct evidence from livecell imaging or co-localization experiments during viral entry. Clarification is needed on whether internalization is simultaneous or sequential for CD4 and CXCR4.

      When referring to endocytosis of CD4 and CXCR4, we only hypothesized that HIV-1 might promote the internalization of both receptors either sequentially or simultaneously. The hypothesis was based in several findings:

      a) Previous studies have suggested that HIV-1 glycoproteins can reduce CD4 and CXCR4 levels during HIV-1 entry (Choi et al. Virol. J., 2008; Geleziunas et al. FASEB J, 1994; Hubert et al. Eur. J. Immunol., 1995).

      b) Receptor endocytosis has been proposed as a mechanism for HIV-1 entry (Daecke et al. J. Virol., 2005; Aggarwal et al. Traffick, 2017; Miyauchi et al. Cell, 2009; Carter et al. Virology, 2011).

      c) Our data from cells activated with X4-gp120 demonstrated internalization of CD4 and chemokine receptors, which correlated with HIV-1 infection in PBMCs from WHIM patients and healthy donors.

      d) CD4 and CXCR4 have been shown to co-localize in lipid rafts during HIV-1 infection (Manes et al. EMBO Rep., 2000; Popik et al. J. Virol., 2002)

      e) Our FRET data demonstrated that CD4 and CXCR4 form heterocomplexes and that FRET efficiency increased after gp120-VLPs treatment.

      We agree with the reviewer that further experiments are required to test this hypothesis, however, we believe that this is beyond the scope of the current manuscript.

      Minor Comments:

      (1) The conclusions rely solely on the HXB2 X4-tropic Env. It would strengthen the study to assess whether other X4 or dual-tropic strains induce similar receptor clustering and dynamics.

      The primary goal of our current study was to investigate the dynamics of the co-receptor CXCR4 during HIV-1 infection, motivated by previous reports showing CD4 oligomerization upon HIV1 binding and gp120 stimulation (Yuan et al. Viruses, 2021). We initially used a recombinant X4gp120, a soluble protein that does not fully replicate the functional properties of the native HIV-1 Env. Previous studies have shown that Env consists of gp120 trimers, which redistribute and cluster on the surface of virions following proteolytic Gag cleavage during maturation (Chojnacki et al. Nat. Commun., 2017). An important consideration in receptor oligomerization studies is the concentration of recombinant gp120 used, as it does not accurately reflect the low number of Env trimers present on native HIV-1 particles (Hart et al. J. Histochem. Cytochem., 1993; Zhu et al. Nature, 2006). To address these limitations, we generated virus-like particles (VLPs) containing low levels of X4-gp120 and repeated the dynamic analysis of CXCR4. The use of primary HIV-1 isolates was limited, in this project, to confirm that PBMCs from both healthy donors and WHIM patients were equally susceptible to infection. This result using a primary HIV-1 virus supports the conclusion drawn from our in vitro approaches. We thus believe that although the use of other X4- and dual-tropic strains may complement and reinforce the analysis, it is far beyond the scope of the current manuscript.

      (2) Given the observed clustering effects, it would be valuable to explore whether gp120-induced rearrangements alter epitope exposure to broadly neutralizing antibodies like 17b or 3BNC117. This would help connect the mechanistic insights to therapeutic relevance.

      As 3BNC117, VRC01 and b12 are broadly neutralizing mAbs that recognize conformational epitopes on gp120 (Li et al. J. Virol., 2011; Mata-Fink et al. J. Mol. Biol., 2013), they will struggle to bind the gp120/CD4/CXCR4 complex and therefore may not be ideal for detecting changes within the CD4/CXCR4 complex. The experiment suggested by the reviewer is thus challenging but also very complex. It would require evaluating antibody binding in two experimental conditions, in the absence and in the presence of oligomers. However, our data indicate that receptor oligomerization is promoted by X4-gp120 binding, and the selected antibodies are neutralizing mAbs, so they should block or hinder the binding of gp120 and, consequently, receptor oligomerization. An alternative approach would be to study the neutralizing capacity of these mAbs on cells expressing CD4/CXCR4 or CD4/CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup> complexes. Variations in their neutralizing activity could be then extrapolated to distinct gp120 conformations, which in turn may reflect differences between CD4/CXCR4 and CD4/CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup> complexes.

      We thus assessed the ability of the VRC01 and b12, anti-gp120 mAbs, which were available in our laboratory, to neutralize gp120 binding on cells expressing CD4/CXCR4 or CD4/CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup>. Specifically, increasing concentrations of each antibody were preincubated (60 min, 37ºC) with a fixed amount of X4-gp120 (0.05 µg/ml). The resulting complexes were then incubated with Jurkat cells expressing CD4/CXCR4 or CD4/CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup> (30 min, 37ºC) and, finally, their binding was analyzed by flow cytometry. Although we did not observe statistically significant differences in the neutralization capacity of b12 or VRC01 for the binding of X4-gp120 depending on the presence of CXCR4 or CXCR4<sup>334X</sup>, we observed a trend for greater concentrations of both mAbs to neutralize X4-gp120 binding in Jurkat CD4/CXCR4 cells than in Jurkat CD4/CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup> cells (Author response image 9).

      Author response image 9.

      Flow cytometry analysis of gp120 binding to Jurkat cells expressing CD4/CXCR4 or CD4/CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup> in the presence of different concentrations of the neutralizing anti-gp120 antibodies b12 (left panel) and VRC01 (right panel). AUC comparison by Welch’s t-test: pvalues 0.2950 and 0.2112 for b12 and VRC01 respectively (n = 2).

      These slight alterations in the neutralizing capacity of b12 and VRC01 mAbs may thus suggest minimal differences in the conformations of gp120 depending of the coreceptor used. We also detected that X4-gp120 and VLPs expressing gp120, which require initial binding to CD4 to engage the chemokine receptor, stabilized oligomers of both CXCR4 and CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup>, but FRET data indicated distinct FRET<sub>50</sub> values between the partners, (2.713) for CD4/CXCR4 and (0.399) for CD4/CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup> (Figure 5A,B in the main manuscript). Moreover, we also detected significantly more CD4 internalization mediated by X4-gp120 in cells co-expressing CD4 and CXCR4 than in those co-expressing CD4 and CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup> (Figure 6 in the main manuscript). Overall these latter data and those included in Author response images 5,6 and 7 indicate distinct conformations within each receptor complexes.

      (3) TIRF imaging limits analysis to the cell substrate interface. It would be useful to clarify whether CXCR4 receptor clustering occurs elsewhere, such as at immunological synapses or during cell-to-cell contact.

      In recent years, chemokine receptor oligomerization has gained significant research interest due to its role in modulating the ability of cells to sense chemoattractant gradients. This molecular organization is now recognized as a critical factor in governing directed cell migration (Martínez-Muñoz et al. Mol. Cell, 2018; García-Cuesta et al. PNAS, 2022, Hauser et al. Immunity, 2016). In addition, advanced imaging techniques such as single-molecule and super-resolution microscopy have been used to investigate the spatial distribution and dynamic behaviour of CXCR4 within the immunological synapse in T cells (Felce et al. Front. Cell Dev. Biol., 2020). Building on these findings, we are currently conducting a project focused on characterizing CXCR4 clustering specifically within this specialized cellular region.

      (4) In LVP experiments, it would be useful to report transduction efficiency (% GFP+ cells) alongside MSI data to relate VLP infectivity with receptor clustering functionally.

      These experiments were designed to validate the functional integrity of the gp120 conformation on the LVPs, confirming their suitability for subsequent TIRF microscopy. Our objective was to establish a robust experimental tool rather than to perform a high-throughput quantification of transduction efficiency. It is for that reason that these experiments were included in new Supplementary Figure S6, which also contains the complete characterization of gp120-VLPs and LVPs. In such experimental conditions, quantifying the percentage of GFP-positive cells relative to the total number of cells plated in each well is very difficult. However, in line with the reviewer’s commentary and as we used the same number of cells in each experimental condition, we have included, in the revised manuscript, a complementary graph illustrating the GFP intensity (arbitrary units) detected in all the wells analyzed (new Supplementary Fig. 6E).

      (5) To ensure that differences in fusion events (Figure 7B) are attributable to target cell receptor properties, consider confirming that effector cells express similar levels of HIV-1 Env. Quantifying gp120 expression by flow cytometry or western blot would rule out the confounding effects of variable Env surface density.

      In these assays (Figure 7B), we used the same effector cells (cells expressing X4-gp120) in both experimental conditions, ensuring that any observed differences should be attributable solely to the target cells, either JKCD4X4 or JKCD4X4<sup>R334X</sup>. For this reason, in Figure 7A we included only the binding of X4-gp120 to the target cells which demonstrated similar levels of the receptors expressed by the cells.

      (6) HIV-mediated receptor downregulation may occur more slowly than ligand-induced internalization. Including a 24-hour time point would help assess whether gp120 induces delayed CD4 or CXCR4 loss beyond the early effects shown and to better capture potential delayed downregulation induced by gp120.

      The reviewer suggests using a 24-hour time point to facilitate detection of receptor internalization. However, such an extended incubation time may introduce some confounding factors, including receptor degradation, recycling and even de novo synthesis, which could affect the interpretation of the results. Under our experimental conditions, we observed that CXCL12 did not trigger CD4 internalization whereas X4-gp120 did. Interestingly, CD4 internalization depended on the coreceptor expressed by the cells.

      (7) Increase label font size in microscopy panels for improved readability.

      Of course; the font size of these panels has been increased in the revised version.

      (8) Consider adding more references on ligand-induced co-endocytosis of CD4 and chemokine receptors during HIV-1 entry.

      We have added more references to support this hypothesis (Toyoda et al. J. Virol., 2015; Venzke et al. J. Virol., 2006; Gobeil et al J. Virol., 2013).

      (9) For Statistical analysis. Biological replicates are adequate, and statistical tests are generally appropriate. For transparency, report n values, exact p-values, and the statistical test used in every figure legend and discussed in the results.

      Thank you for highlighting the importance of transparency in statistical reporting. We confirm that the n values for all experiments have been included in the figure legends. The statistical tests used for each analysis are also clearly indicated in the figure legends, and the interpretation of these results is discussed in detail in the Results section. Furthermore, the Methods section specifies the tests applied and the thresholds for significance, ensuring full transparency regarding our analytical approach.

      In accordance with established conventions in the field, we have utilized categorical significance indicators (e.g., n.s., *, **, ***) within our figures to enhance readability and focus on biological trends. This approach is widely adopted in high-impact literature to prevent visual clutter. However, to ensure full transparency and reproducibility, we have ensured that the underlying statistical tests and thresholds are clearly defined in the respective figure legends and Methods section.

      Reviewer #4:

      We thank the reviewer for considering that this work is presented in a clear fashion, and the main findings are properly highlighted, and for remarking that the paper is of interest to the retrovirology community and possibly to the broader virology community.

      We also agree on the interest that X4-gp120 clusters CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup> suggests a different binding mechanism for X4-gp120 from that of the natural ligand CXCL12, an aspect that we are now evaluating. These data also indicate that WHIM patients can be infected by HIV-1 similarly to healthy people.

      (1) The observation that "empty VLPs" reduce CXCR4 diffusivity is potentially interesting. However, it is not supported by the data owing to insufficient controls. The authors correctly discuss the limitations of that observation in the Discussion section (lines 702-704). However, they overinterpret the observation in the Results section (lines 509-512), suggesting non-specific interactions between empty VLPs, CD4 and CXCR4. I suggest either removing the sentence from the Results section or replacing it with a sentence similar to the one in the Discussion section.

      In accordance with the reviewer`s suggestion, the sentence in the result section has been replaced with one similar to that found in the discussion section. In addition, we have performed Raster Image Correlation Spectroscopy (RICS) analysis using the Di-4-ANEPPDHQ lipid probe to assess membrane fluidity by means of membrane diffusion, and compared the results with those of cells treated with Env(-) VLPs. The results indicated that VLPs did not modulate membrane fluidity (Author response image 8). Nonetheless, these results do not rule out other potential non-specific interactions of the Env(-) VLPs with other components of the cell membrane that might affect receptor dynamics (see our response to point 2 of reviewer #3).

      (2) In the case of the WHIM mutant CXCR4-R334X, the addition of "empty VLPs" did not cause a significant change in the diffusivity of CXCR4-R334X (Figure 4B). This result is in contrast with the addition of empty VLPs to WT CXCR4. However, the authors neither mention nor comment on that result in the results section. Please mention the result in the paper and comment on it in relation to the addition of empty VLPs to WT CXCR4.

      We would remark that the main observation in these experiments should focus on the effect of gp120-VLPs, and the results indicates that gp120-VLPs promoted clustering of CXCR4 and of CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup> and reduced their diffusion at the cell membrane. The Env(- ) VLPs were included as a negative control in the experiments, to compare the data with those obtained using gp120VLPs. However, once we observed some residual effect of the Env(-) VLPs, we decided to give a potential explanation, formulated as a hypothesis, that the Env(-) VLPs modulated membrane fluidity. We have now performed a RICS analysis using Di-4-ANEPPDHQ as a lipid probe (Author response image 9). The results suggest that Env(-) VLPs do not modulate cell membrane fluidity, although we do not rule out other potential interactions with membrane proteins that might alter receptor dynamics. We appreciate the reviewer’s observation and agree that this result can be noted. However, since the main purpose of Figure 4B is to show that gp120-VLPs modulate the dynamics of CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup> rather than to remark that the Env(-) VLPs also have some effects, we consider that a detailed discussion of this specific aspect would detract from the central finding and may dilute the primary narrative of the study.

      Minor comments

      (1) It would be helpful for the reader to combine thematically or experimentally linked figures, e.g., Figures 3 and 4.

      (2) Figures 3 and 4 are very similar. Please unify the colours in them and the order of the panels (e.g. Figure 3 panel A shows diffusivity of CXCR4, while Figure 4 panel A shows MSI of CXCR4-R334X).

      While we considered consolidating Figures 3 and 4, we believe that maintaining them as separate entities enhances conceptual clarity. Since Figure 3 establishes the baseline dynamics for wildtype CXCR4 and Figure 4 details the distinct behavior of the CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup> mutant, keeping them separate allows the reader to fully appreciate the specificities of each system before making a cross-comparison.

      (3) Some parts of the Discussion section could be shortened, moved to the Introduction (e.g., lines 648651), or entirely removed (e.g., lines 633-635 about GPCRs).

      In accordance, the Discussion section has been reorganized and shortened to improve clarity.

      (4) I suggest renaming "empty VLPs" to "Env(−) VLPs" (or similar). The name empty VLPs can mislead the reader into thinking that these are empty vesicles.

      The term empty VLPs has been renamed to Env(−) VLPs throughout the manuscript to more accurately reflect their composition. Many thanks for this suggestion.

      (5) Line 492 - please rephrase "...lower expression of Env..." to "...lower expression of Env or its incorporation into the VLPs...".

      The sentence has been rephrased

      (6) Line 527 - The data on CXCL12 modulating CXCR4-R334X dynamics and clustering are not present in Figure 4 (or any other Figure). Please add them or rephrase the sentence with an appropriate reference. Make clear which results are yours.

      (7) Line 532 - Do the data in the paper really support a model in which CXCL12 binds to CXCR4R334X? If not, please rephrase with an appropriate reference.

      Previous studies support the association of CXCL12 with CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup> (Balabanian et al. Blood, 2005; Hernandez et al. Nat Genet., 2003; Busillo & Benovic Biochim. Biophys. Acta, 2007). In fact, this receptor has been characterized as a gain-of-function variant for this ligand (McDermott et al. J. Cell. Mol. Med., 2011). The revised manuscript now includes these bibliographic references to support this commentary. In any case, our previous data indicate that CXCL12 binding does not affect CXCR4<sup>R334X</sup> dynamics (García-Cuesta et al. PNAS, 2022).

      (8) Line 695 - "...lipid rafts during HIV-1 (missing word?) and their ability to..." During what?

      Many thanks for catching this mistake. The sentence now reads: “Although direct evidence for the internalization of CD4 and CXCR4 as complexes is lacking, their co-localization in lipid rafts during HIV-1 infection (97–99) and their ability to form heterocomplexes (22) strongly suggest they could be endocytosed together.”

    1. Author Response:

      We sincerely thank the reviewers for their insightful and constructive suggestions on our manuscript. We are encouraged by the positive recognition of our study’s conceptual significance, particularly the involvement of the mushroom body (MB) in nociceptive escape behavior and the utility of our ALTOMS behavioral platform.

      We fully agree with the reviewers’ assessments and have initiated several key revisions, additional experiments, and analytical refinements to strengthen the study.

      Below is a summary of our planned improvements:

      1. Experimental Revisions and Scope Expansion

      To address concerns regarding potential developmental compensation (Reviewers 1 and 2), we are performing new experiments using temporally precise manipulation tools to confirm the acute necessity of the identified circuits. Additionally, responding to Reviewer 3, we are conducting further behavioral assays to include necessary genetic controls (e.g., split-GAL4-only lines) and expanding our screen to cover all major MBON and DAN compartments using standardized lines to ensure a comprehensive functional map.

      2. Analytical Refinements and Methodological Transparency

      We are revising our quantitative and anatomical reporting to address several technical suggestions from all three reviewers. Specifically, we will implement a weighted “Behavioral Potency Level” that accounts for driver-specific expression intensity and specificity. Anatomical clarity will be enhanced by providing presynaptic expression patterns alongside trans-Tango signals and a neuron-centric data model for Figure 5. Furthermore, the Materials and Methods will be updated to explicitly detail habituation protocols, stimulation timing, sample sizes, while incorporating a more nuanced discussion on the limitations of the tracing systems.

      We believe these revisions will significantly enhance the rigor and clarity of our manuscript. We look forward to submitting the revised version upon completion of these supplementary tasks.

    1. Thank you very much for your careful evaluation of our manuscript entitled “Cross-Species BAC Transgenesis Reveals Long-Range Regulation Drives Variation in Brain Oxytocin Receptor Expression and Social Behaviors.” We sincerely appreciate the insightful and constructive comments from both reviewers.

      We are particularly encouraged by the positive assessment that our study provides a useful experimental framework and resource for understanding how regulatory variation contributes to diversity in brain expression patterns and social behaviors. We have carefully considered all comments and outline below the key revisions we will implement in the revised manuscript.

      Conceptual clarification: We will clarify the conceptual framework of the study. While our initial aim was to test whether prairie vole regulatory elements could recapitulate vole-like Oxtr expression patterns in mice, the generation of multiple independent Koi lines revealed that such expression is not faithfully reproduced but instead varies across lines. This observation led us to refocus the study on how regulatory architecture gives rise to diverse expression patterns and their functional consequences. Accordingly, we will revise the manuscript to emphasize that the goal is not to reconstruct prairie vole circuits, but to test how variation in Oxtr expression distribution drives variation in social behaviors.

      Quantification of expression patterns: We will include quantitative analyses of Oxtr expression in both brain and mammary gland tissues. These additions will provide an objective basis for comparing tissue-specific expression and support the conclusion that brain expression is more variable, whereas mammary gland expression is broadly conserved. We will include qRT-PCR data to support mammary gland comparisons.

      Behavioral interpretation: We will clarify that the behavioral analyses are designed to assess how distinct Oxtr expression patterns influence social behaviors within a controlled mouse system, rather than to directly replicate prairie vole phenotypes. We will refine the manuscript to clearly distinguish between partial resemblance to prairie vole expression and the broader goal of linking regulatory variation to behavioral diversity.

      Technical clarification and limitations: We will revise the manuscript to more carefully interpret the roles of genomic integration site and transgene copy number, noting that while integration site likely plays a major role, contributions from copy number cannot be excluded. In addition, we will explicitly acknowledge that our analyses of 3D chromatin architecture are correlative in nature, and that establishing causality would require direct perturbation of chromatin structure, which is beyond the scope of the current study.

      Presentation improvements: We will improve figure clarity, include representative reference images from prairie vole brain to facilitate qualitative comparison, and refine descriptions in the Results and Methods sections to enhance clarity and readability.

      We thank the reviewers again for their insightful and constructive feedback, which we believe will significantly strengthen the manuscript. We look forward to submitting a revised version incorporating these improvements.

    1. Author response:

      eLife Assessment

      This work presents a valuable new open-source tool for wirelessly controlling optogenetic stimulation in neuroscience experiments in behaving rodents. Evidence for its potential usefulness in different types of optogenetic experiments is solid, although some details and concerns were viewed as lacking or overlooked (e.g., system latency, battery weight). The work is expected to interest neuroscientists working with optogenetics and neuroengineers developing small-sized integrated devices for rodent experiments.

      We thank the eLife team for taking the time to consider and assess our manuscript. Please find below our provisional author responses accompanying the first version of the Reviewed Preprint.

      We would like to clarify an important error regarding the battery model reported in the manuscript. We mistakenly referred to the CP1254-A3 (1.8 g), whereas the battery used for all devices is the CP9440 A4X (0.8 g).

      Importantly, this correction reduces the total device weight by approximately 1 g compared to the value assumed by Reviewer #3. We believe this directly addresses the concern raised regarding battery weight in both the individual review and the overall eLife assessment.

      We will correct this error in the revised manuscript and clearly report the exact battery model and total device weight.

      For reference, the official VARTA CoinPower catalog is available here:

      https://www.varta-ag.com/fileadmin/varta/industry/downloads/products/lithium-ion-cells/VARTA_CoinPower_EN_digital_221124_A5_6p.pdf

      The battery used in BlueBerry is listed on the last line of page 2.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This paper presents a wireless device for closed-loop control of optogenetic stimulation based on behavioral triggers. The authors demonstrate the device through two behavioral experiments in mice, showcasing the device's capabilities and emphasizing open accessibility and using off-the-shelf components.

      Strengths:

      The paper presents a device that is open access and easily reproducible for wireless stimulation in a closed loop based on behavioral triggers. Other strengths of the device include the simultaneous use of multiple devices in parallel and the claimed ease of integration with existing frameworks. The paper shows to behavioral experiments on multiple mice along with some device validation results.

      We thank the reviewer for the statement.

      Weaknesses:

      The main weakness of the presented device lies in the lack of flexibility in stimulation power. For a device that is intended for stimulation only, having to physically change a component on the board to adapt stimulation power is a major downside. Reprogrammable stimulation current is not complex to implement and should really have been included on this device. Another weakness lies in the limited battery life of the device. While using a battery-powered device decreases spatial constraints, allowing for the maze experiment presented in the paper, it also means the lifespan of the device is limited compared to an inductively powered device, limiting its ability for long-term experiments.

      We thank the reviewer for these valuable comments. We did consider implementing programmable control of stimulation power, for example using a digital potentiometer. However, in our current design this approach was not sufficient because the output current supported by typical digital potentiometers is too low for the high-power LEDs used in our system. For this reason, we did not include programmable stimulation current in the present version. We agree that this is a limitation and that further work is needed to identify a suitable solution for adjustable stimulation power, which we plan to pursue in future versions of the device. We will revise the manuscript to make this limitation and future direction clearer.

      We also agree that the use of a battery-powered wireless system introduces an important trade-off. We will revise the manuscript to discuss this limitation more explicitly.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors have developed an elegant, lightweight, open-source system that should be able to be widely disseminated to the community. They have used this system in multiple experimental paradigms and demonstrate its functionality quite elegantly. One of these experiments involves two of three animals in the arena being stimulated, a situation that clearly requires an untethered approach. They have appropriately quantified key system parameters (latency and battery life).

      Strengths:

      The introduction places this work in a broader context. That context includes a number of previous solutions, many of which are smaller or more technically complex. However, I agree with the authors that there is a need for something that is easy for labs to acquire and deploy in terms of both what goes on the head and the broader infrastructure (i.e., not needing complex wireless power delivery approaches).

      The paper does an excellent job of describing the system architecture. And the architecture is good! Their system comprises more than just the bluetooth enabled head-mounted devices - they also have built an interface that allows for TTL triggers that link into existing workflows.

      The key metrics for a device like this are weight, battery life, and latency. The weight is 1.4g, which is appropriate for adult mice; the battery life is ~100 minutes of continuous stimulation, which should be sufficient for many experiments, and the latency is typically less than 30 ms, which is fine for all but the most demanding closed-loop experiments.

      Performance is demonstrated in two experiments, a continuous Y-maze, which elegantly demonstrates how transfected animals learn to sense optogenetic closed-loop stimulation to drive their choice behavior in a way that control-stimulated animals do not. While authors claim that the ~2m diameter apparatus is "large scale", the second behavior more convincingly demonstrates the need for wireless stimulation.

      They used closed-loop monitoring of animal pose to selectively stimulate animals for approaching the tails of a dominant conspecific (based on pre-experimental pairwise assessments). It seems that the original hope was that the increases in following that they observe would result in long-lasting changes in the hierarchy of a cage, but as they report, this was not observed. Critically, their supplementary video demonstrates that they conducted this experiment with two instrumented animals simultaneously. This is a situation where a tether would have been hopelessly tangled within a few moments!

      The online documentation seems complete, and it seems quite possible for other labs to adopt and deploy the system.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s enthusiasm. Thank you.

      Weaknesses:

      The battery life is highly dependent on the stimulation paradigm. It makes sense that the LED is a major component of power consumption. It would have been elegant to measure the total optical energy that can be provided by the system. In addition, Bluetooth transmission is probably a major consumer of power, and receiving may not be "free". Quantifying power as a function of Bluetooth message rates would have been useful.

      We thank the reviewer for this important suggestion. We agree that this is a missing characterization in the current manuscript. In the revised version, we will include a more detailed analysis of the system’s power budget, including the maximum stimulation power supported by the BlueBerry device, the corresponding output currents, and the contribution of the main integrated circuits to overall current consumption.

      Presumably, the major constraint on latency is that the Bluetooth receiver polls at ~10 Hz, resulting in latency blocks of 20+, 30+, or 40+ ms. Why latency is never less than 10 ms is unclear. Could latency be reduced by changing a setting? Having a low-latency option would be very helpful for some experimental situations. Latency is probably the primary weakness of the system.

      In the revised manuscript, we will clarify more explicitly that latency is a key limitation of the current system. We will also further investigate the source of this latency, including whether it can be reduced through additional configuration changes. In addition, we will include comparative latency measurements using different Arduino modules as the central BLE controller for the BlueHub device.

      The programming process sounds quite complicated. It would be nice if they had OTA updates. But described and open source. Similarly, the configuration process (Arduino IDE) seems a bit complex. It would be nice if there were a dedicated cross-platform application.

      We will investigate this matter and provide a simpler install and configuration script to setup both the BlueHub and Blueberry systems.

      It is unclear what the maximum number of devices that could be used without wireless interference is. The base station has two charging stations, but it would have been nice to understand the limits beyond this number.

      Due to the current structure of the ArduinoBLE library used in BlueHub devices, each BlueHub unit can support active communication with up to maximum 3 BlueBerry units. We thank the reviewer for highlighting this point and in the next version of the paper we will clarify this point.

      There is a very nice website for the system, but there is some concern that the code and design files are not archived. Could they be deposited with the paper?

      In the revised submission, we will deposit all code used to program both the BlueHub and BlueBerry devices, together with the Gerber files required for PCB fabrication, alongside the paper.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study presents a novel device for wireless control of optogenetic stimulation of the mouse brain, the Blueberry, using Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE) communication for parallel activation of up to 4 devices through an Arduino interface. The authors also present two types of brain implants for light delivery that can be connected to the Blueberry: one using uLEDs for surface cortical stimulation, and another using optical fibers for intra- or sub-cortical implants. The architecture of the system, including electronics, communication, and programming, is thoroughly described. Because the system was especially designed to be integrated with existing software used for neuroscience behavioral experiment for closed-loop experiments, validation of the system is shown on two different scenarios: a learning task in a "infinite" Y-maze, where light delivery at precise locations conditions arm choice for navigation; and a social interaction analysis where 3 animals are simultaneously stimulated in order to alter social dynamics among the group.

      Strengths:

      (1) The full system can be built by individual labs with simple PCB printing, off-the-shelf components, and readily available hardware (Arduino) for widespread dissemination.

      (2) Four headstages can be controlled in parallel for simultaneous experiments with multiple mice.

      (3) Validation across different relevant behavioral tests, demonstrating the potential of integrating Bluberry in closed-loop setups.

      We thank the reviewer for the statement.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Some details in the manuscript regarding system characterization (latency, battery life, etc) are included only in the supplementary materials.

      As correctly mentioned, in the revised manuscript we will move the necessary quantifications from supplementary section to main section.

      (2) The practical details of integration with other commercial and open-source software used for the closed-loop experiments, which could help third-party researchers interested in using the system, are lacking sufficient detail.

      We will clarify this point more clearly in the revised manuscript.

      (3) System range (3 meters reported) is limited for a BLE device.

      The system range reported is the range considered as reliable communication range. In the revised manuscript we quantify this problem by reporting the Received Signal Strength (RSS) value for multiple BlueBerry devices across varying distances.  

      (4) Light output amplitude is not programmable, limiting the choice of stimulation protocols and LEDs used.

      That is indeed a limitation of our system, we will investigate the feasibility of integrating programmable stimulation protocols in the updated version of BlueBerry device.

      (5) Thermal modeling of the cortical surface stimulator was not performed, and it is unclear if the brain implant for this purpose is within the safety limits.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. In the revised manuscript, we will clarify that the thermal measurements reported here apply only to the specific superficial implant geometry and stimulation conditions used in this study. Because tissue heating depends strongly on implant design and on parameters such as optical power, pulse width, and stimulation frequency, a general safety statement cannot be made for all possible implant configurations. Since the primary goal of this work is to present the wireless device platform rather than to validate a particular implant design, thermal safety should be evaluated individually for each implant and stimulation paradigm.

      (6) The paper is missing a comparison with other state-of-the-art devices for wireless control of optogenetic stimulation in mice.

      In the revised manuscript, we will include a comparison table summarizing our system alongside currently available wireless optogenetic devices.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Mancl et al. present a comprehensive integrative study combining cryo-EM, SAXS, enzymatic assays, and molecular dynamics (MD) simulations to characterize conformational dynamics of human insulin-degrading enzyme (IDE). In the revised manuscript, the study now also includes time-resolved cryo-EM and coarse-grained MD simulations, which strengthen the mechanistic model by revealing insulin-induced allostery and β-sheet interactions between IDE and insulin. Together, these results expand the original mechanistic insight and further validate R668 as a key residue governing the open-close transition and substrate-dependent activity modulation of IDE.

      Strengths:

      The authors have substantially expanded the experimental scope by adding time-resolved cryo-EM data and coarse-grained MD simulations, directly addressing requests for mechanistic depth and temporal insight. The integration of multiple resolution scales (cryo-EM heterogeneity analysis, all-atom and coarse-grained MD simulations, and biochemical validation) now provides a coherent description of the conformational transitions and allosteric regulation of IDE. The addition of Aβ degradation assays strengthens the claim that R668 modulates IDE function in a substrate-specific manner. Finally, the manuscript reads more clearly: figure organization, section headers, and inclusion of a new introductory figure make it accessible to a broader audience. Overall, the revision reinforces the conceptual advance that the dynamic interdomain motions of IDE underlie both its unfoldase and protease activities and identifies structural motifs that could be targeted pharmacologically.

      Weaknesses:

      While the authors acknowledge that future studies on additional IDE substrates (e.g., amylin and glucagon) are warranted, such experiments remain outside the present scope. Their absence modestly limits the generalization of the R668 mechanism across all IDE substrates. Despite improved discussion of kinetic timescales and enzyme-substrate interactions, experimental correlation between MD timescales and catalysis remains primarily inferential. The moderate local resolution of some cryo-EM states (notably O/pO) continues to limit atomic interpretation of the most flexible regions, though the authors address this carefully.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript describes various conformational states and structural dynamics of the Insulin degrading enzyme (IDE), a zinc metalloprotease by nature. Both open and closed state structures of IDE have been previously solved using crystallography and cryo-EM which reveal a dimeric organization of IDE where each monomer is organized into N and C domains. C-domains form the interacting interface in the dimeric protein while the two N-domains are positioned on the outer sides of the core formed by C-domains. It remains elusive how the open state is converted into the closed state but it is generally accepted that it involves large-scale movement of N-domains relative to the C-domains. Authors here have used various complementary experimental techniques such as cryo-EM, SAXS, size-exclusion chromatography and enzymatic assays to characterize the structure and dynamics of IDE protein in the presence of substrate protein insulin whose density is captured in all the structures solved. The experimental structural data from cryo-EM suffered from high degree of intrinsic motion amongst the different domains and consequently, the resultant structures were moderately resolved at 3-4.1 Å resolution. Total five structures were generated in the originally submitted manuscript using cryo-EM. Another cryo-EM reconstruction (sixth) at 5.1Å resolution was mentioned after first revision which was obtained using time-resolved cryo-EM experiments. Authors have extensively used Molecular dynamics simulation to fish out important inter-subunit contacts which involves R668, E381, D309, etc residues. In summary, authors have explored the conformational dynamics of IDE protein using experimental approaches which are complimented and analyzed in atomic details by using MD simulation studies. The studies are meticulously conducted and lay ground for future exploration of protease structure-function relationship.

      Comments after first peer-review:

      The authors have addressed all my concerns, and have added new data and explanations in terms of time-resolved cryo-EM (Fig. 7) and upside simulations (Fig. 8) which in my opinion have strengthened the merit of the manuscript.

      We are grateful for the dedication and constructive feedback provided by the editors and reviewers. We have revised our manuscript according to the suggestions by both reviewers.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The new version of the manuscript reads exceedingly well and the corrections the authors have made during their revision made the manuscript much easier to read and digest than the first version. Below are minor details that may be corrected:

      Abstract:

      Line 45-47: "IDE is known to transition between a closed state, poised for catalysis, and an open state, able to release cleavage products and bind a new substrate." (consider adding a)

      Fixed

      Line 48-50: "Combining cryo-EM heterogeneity analysis with all-atom molecular dynamics (MD) simulations, we identified the structural basis and key residues for IDE conformational dynamics that were not previously revealed by IDE static structures." (consider adding previously)

      Changed

      Line 52-54: "Our small-angle X-ray scattering analysis and enzymatic assays of an R668A mutant indicate a profound alteration of conformational dynamics and catalytic activity." (consider adding analysis)

      Changed

      Line 54: Consider leaving out "Upside" in the abstract (to avoid confusion when reading the abstract) and leave it to be introduced in the introduction when Upside MD simulations are first mentioned.

      Changed

      Results:

      Figure 5D: There seems to be an error in the legend for Figure 5D. It says "... presence of varying amounts of insulin", but this must be Aβ1-40. Please add info on whether the replicates are technical or biological.

      The legend has been revised as suggested.

      Line 125: Consider switching the order of "here" and "we"

      “here” has been removed.

      Line 128: Replace "5" with "five"

      Changed

      Line 137: Replace "when insulin is present" with "in the presence of insulin"

      Changed

      Line 228: Replace "5" and "6" with "five " and "six"

      Changed

      Line 229: Consider adding the word "form": "First, the open subunits did not close to form a singular structure."

      We have adjusted the sentence to read “close to a singular consensus structure”

      Line 327: Replace "2" with "two"

      Changed

      Line 276: Consider replacing "Conversely" with a more suitable connecting term as it implies that the observation presented in the two sentences are reverse or rephrase what is being compared. Is it the fact there is a dose dependency or not between the substrates or is it the actual kinetic parameters that are described. I just don't think conversely is fair with the current formulation as "the R668A mutant did not exhibit a dose-dependent response to the presence of Aβ" not that the Ki is reduced for WT compared to the R668A construct when looking at Aβ.

      The connecting term has been removed completely, beginning the sentence with “When Abeta…”

      Line 359: Replace "6" with "six"

      Changed

      Consider getting rid of possessive apostrophes to keep a formal tone, e.g. lines 211 (cryoSPARC's), 259 (IDE's) and 382 (IDE's). Exception to this is Alzheimer's disease.

      All instances of possessive apostrophes, aside from Alzheimer’s, have been replaced alter more formal wording.

      Figure 7 supplement 1: The color scheme for the local resolution is missing the unit (Å).

      This has been corrected.

      Finally, the supplementary videos illustrating IDE conformational dynamics are difficult to interpret and somewhat redundant in their current form. The transitions occur very rapidly, making it hard to appreciate the described motions, and the uniform coloring of IDE further limits visual clarity. I apologize for not including this point in my initial review. I recommend either removing the videos or re-rendering them to improve interpretability, for example by slowing down the motion and applying the same domain color scheme introduced in the new Figure 1 (and used in the MD trajectory video). This would greatly aid readers in connecting the descriptions in the text to the visual representations in the movies.

      Figure 3 videos 1-4 were slowed down, simplified, and recolored to improve clarity.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Comments after first revision for authors:

      Thanks a ton to the authors for the detailed explanation on my comments. I believe the discussions will help a large group of audience, especially the non-experts. Please address the minor comment below:

      Minor comment:

      Please update Supplementary file 1 (Cryo-EM data collection, refinement, and validation statistics) regarding the new volume obtained by time-resolved cryo-EM. Kindly also check line 47 in the abstract: "Here, we present five cryo-EM structures" , which may need an update (six structures and resolution 3.0-5.1 Å) or rephrase the sentences accordingly. If similar instances are found in the manuscript, where list of all the structures are mentioned together, please update accordingly if necessary.

      The cryo-EM statistics for the time-resolved cryo-EM are shown in supplementary file 2 to differentiated two datasets. The abstract has been changed, as has line 149.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The goal of this paper was to determine whether the T cell receptor (TCR) repertoire differs between a male or female human. To address this, this group sequenced TCRs from doublepositive and single-positive thymocytes in male and female humans of various ages. Such an analysis on sorted thymocyte subsets has not been performed in the past. The only comparable dataset is a pediatric thymocyte dataset where total thymocytes were sorted.

      They report on participant ages and sexes, but not on ethnicity, race, nor provide information about HLA typing of individuals. The experiments are heroic, yet do represent a relatively small sampling of diverse humans. They observed no differences in TCRbeta or TCRalpha usage, combinational diversity, or differences in the length of the CDR3 region, or amino acid usage in the CD3aa region between males or females. Though they observed some TCRbeta CD3aa sequence motifs that differed between males and females, these findings could not be replicated using an external dataset and therefore were not generalizable to the human population.

      They also compared TCRbeta sequences against those identified in the past databases using computational approaches to recognize cancer-, bacterial-, viral-, or autoimmune-antigens. They found little overlap of their sequences with these annotated sequences (depending on the individual, ranged from 0.82-3.58% of sequences). Within the sequences that were in overlap, they found that certain sequences against autoimmune or bacterial antigens were significantly over-represented in female versus male CD8 SP cells. Since no other comparable dataset is available, they could not conclude whether this is a generalizable finding in the human population.

      Strengths:

      It is a novel dataset that attempts to understand sex differences in the T cell repertoire in humans. Overall, the methodologies are sound and are the current state-of-the-art. There was an attempt to replicate their findings in cases where an appropriate dataset was available. I agree that there are no gross differences in TCR diversity between males and females. This is an important negative result.

      Weaknesses:

      Weaknesses:

      Overall, the sample size is small given that it is an outbred population. This reviewer recognizes the difficulty in obtaining samples for this experiment (which were from deceased donors), and this limitation was appropriately discussed. Their analysis was limited by the current availability of other TCR sequences. These weaknesses were appropriately discussed and considered.

      We thank this reviewer for his appreciation of our work.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study addresses the hypothesis that the strikingly higher prevalence of autoimmune diseases in women could be the result of biased thymic generation or selection of TCR repertoires. The biological question is important and the hypothesis is valuable. Although the topic is conceptually interesting and the dataset is rich, the study has a number of major issues. In particular, the majority of "autoimmunity-related TCRs" considered in this study are in fact specific to type 1 diabetes (T1D). Notably, T1D incidence is higher in males, which directly contradicts the stated objective of the study - to explain the higher prevalence of autoimmune diseases in women. Given this conceptual inconsistency, the evidence presented does not support the authors' conclusions.

      We disagree with the reviewer’s assertion that our findings create a conceptual inconsistency.

      Autoimmune diseases are multifactorial conditions in which multiple biological layers, including thymic selection, peripheral immune regulation, hormonal effects, environmental exposures, and tissue-specific vulnerability, contribute to disease incidence. These layers may influence sex ratios in different directions. Therefore, observing a higher frequency of TCRs annotated as T1D-associated in females does not imply that T1D incidence must also be higher in females.

      Actually, T1D incidence itself is not uniformly male-biased worldwide. Epidemiological analyses (reviewed in Qu and Hakonarson, Diabetes Obes Metab 2025) show that male predominance is mainly observed in high-incidence Northern European populations, whereas in several lowerincidence regions, including parts of East Asia and Africa, the sex ratio is balanced or even femalebiased. Furthermore, another recent study highlights that T1D incidence and prevalence in women and men varies depending on the study period (PMC12544016).

      This heterogeneity indicates that disease incidence reflects context-dependent interactions between genetic load, environmental exposures, and sex-specific biological modifiers. Moreover, biological sex acts as a dynamic modifier of genetic risk and immune function in T1D, influencing central tolerance, peripheral immune activation, and β-cell intrinsic resilience (reviewed in Qu and Hakonarson, 2025). Experimental models further demonstrate estrogenmediated protection of pancreatic β-cells (Kim et al., Biochem Biophys Res Commun 2025), indicating that disease incidence reflects the integration of immune, hormonal, and tissuespecific layers rather than central autoreactive TCR release alone. Sex hormones may exert distinct and sometimes opposing effects on thymic selection and on target-organ vulnerability, while environmental factors such as vitamin D status, infections, and microbiota composition further shape disease expression.

      Importantly, our study does not claim causality, nor does it aim to predict the epidemiology of any specific autoimmune disease. Our conclusions are limited to the observation that sexdependent differences exist in thymic TCR selection.

      Strengths:

      The key strength of this work is the newly generated dataset of TCR repertoires from sorted thymocyte subsets (DP and SP populations). This approach enables the authors to distinguish between biases in TCR generation (DP) and thymic selection (SP). Bulk TCR sequencing allows deeper repertoire coverage than single-cell approaches, which is valuable here, although the absence of TRA-TRB pairing and HLA context limits the interpretability of antigen specificity analyses. Importantly, this dataset represents a valuable community resource and should be openly deposited rather than being "available upon request."

      We agree with the reviewer’s comment. As already stated in the previous revision and the "Data Availability" section of the manuscript, all raw sequencing data have been deposited and are publicly available on NCBI (BioProject PRJNA1379632): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sra/PRJNA1379632.

      Weaknesses:

      I thank the authors for their detailed responses to my previous comments. Several concerns were addressed satisfactorily; however, important issues remain unresolved, and a new major concern has emerged from the revised manuscript.

      Major concerns:

      (1) Autoimmune specificity is dominated by T1D, contradicting the study's premise. Newly added supplementary Table 3 shows that the authors considered only 14 autoimmune-related epitopes, of which 12 are associated with type 1 diabetes (T1D) and 2 with celiac disease (CeD). (I guess this is because identification of particular peptide autoantigens is an extremely difficult task and was only successful in T1D and CeD.) Thus conclusions of this work mostly relate to T1D. However, the incidence of T1D is higher in males than in females (e.g. doi:10.1111/j.13652796.2007.01896.x; doi:10.25646/11439.2). This directly contradicts the stated objective of the study - to explain the higher prevalence of autoimmune diseases in women. As a result, the authors' conclusions (a) cannot be generalized to autoimmune disease as a whole as the authors only considered T1D and CeD antigens and (b) are internally inconsistent with the stated objective of the study.

      (2) By contrast, CeD does show a female bias (~60/40 female/male; doi: 10.1016/j.cgh.2018.11.013). However, the manuscript does not allow evaluation of how much the reported "autoimmune TCR enrichment" derives from T1D versus CeD. Despite my previous request, the authors did not provide per-donor and per-epitope distributions of autoimmune-specific TCR matches. I therefore explicitly request a table in which: each row corresponds to a specific autoimmune antigen; each column corresponds to a donor (with metadata available including sex); each cell reports the number of unique TCRs specific to that antigen in that donor. Without such data, the conclusions cannot be evaluated.

      (3) It is scientifically inappropriate to generalize findings to "autoimmune diseases" when only T1D and CeD were analyzed. Moreover, given that T1D and CeD show opposite directions of sex bias, combining them into a single "AID" category is misleading. All analyses presented in Figure 8 and Supplementary Figure 16 should be repeated and shown separately for T1D and CeD, rather than combined.

      We acknowledge that currently available antigen-annotated TCR databases remain limited. This reflects the considerable experimental difficulty of defining TCRs’ antigen specificities and is a widely recognized limitation in the field.

      In the curated database used here, the autoimmune-associated entries correspond primarily to type 1 diabetes (T1D) and celiac disease (CeD), two autoimmune contexts for which antigen-specific TCRs have been experimentally characterized. However, focusing on the number of antigens alone does not accurately reflect the breadth of the dataset.

      Specifically, our analysis is based on 48 epitopes and nearly 200 annotated TRB sequences, providing substantially broader antigenic representation than suggested by antigen count alone.

      Author response table 1.

      Importantly, our analytical framework does not attempt to interpret each epitope specificity individually. Instead, we examine whether TCRs annotated as autoimmune-associated are differentially represented between sexes at the level of thymic selection.

      In our dataset we observe a stronger CD8⁺ thymic selection of TCRs annotated as autoimmune- associated in females. We interpret this as evidence that central tolerance mechanisms may contribute to sex-dependent differences in autoreactive repertoire composition, rather than as a determinant of any specific autoimmune disease pathophysiology.

      (4) The McPAS database contains TCRs associated with other autoimmune diseases (e.g., multiple sclerosis, rheumatoid arthritis), although the exact autoantigens in these contexts are unknown. Why didn't the authors perform the search for such TCRs? I believe disease association even without particular known antigen could still be insightful.

      For multiple sclerosis, the only antigen present in the database is myelin basic protein (MBP). In our thymic repertoire dataset, we could not detect any CDR3 sequence matching MPB annotated CDR3s from the database.

      For rheumatoid arthritis, the database contains only a small number of TRA sequences without corresponding TRB chains. Because our specificity analysis is based on TRBs, these entries could not be used in our analyses.

      (5) Misuse of the concept of polyspecificity. I appreciate the authors' reference to Don Mason's work; however, the concept of polyspecificity discussed there is fundamentally different from the authors' usage. Mason, Sewell (doi:10.1074/jbc.M111.289488), Garcia(doi:10.1016/j.cell.2014.03.047), and others demonstrated that individual TCRs can recognize multiple peptides, possibly around 1 million. But importantly these peptides are not random but share some sequence motif. This is a general feature of TCRs, i.e. 100% of TCRs are polyspecific in this sense.

      In contrast, the authors define polyspecificity as TRB sequences annotated as specific to unrelated epitopes in TCR databases such as VDJdb. These databases are well known to contain substantial numbers of false-positive annotations (see, e.g., Ton Schumacher's preprint https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2025.04.28.651095.abstract). The authors acknowledge that, under their definition, polyspecificity has been experimentally validated for only one (!) TCR (Quiniou et al.). In the absence of robust experimental validation, use of the term "polyspecificity" in this context is misleading. I strongly recommend removing all analyses and conclusions related to polyspecificity from the manuscript unless supported by independent functional validation.

      We agree with the reviewer that the concept of TCR polyspecificity is complex, controversial and not uniformly defined in the literature.

      For some, polyspecificity refers to the ability of individual TCRs to recognize multiple related peptides sharing structural motifs, as described by Mason, Sewell, Garcia, and others. With this definition, we agree that many/most TCRs exhibit some degree of cross-reactivity and would thus be defined as polyspecific.

      In contrast, our definition of polyspecificity came from our observation arising from large-scale repertoire analyses that certain CDR3 sequences are repeatedly annotated across databases as recognizing distinct and unrelated antigenic categories. In our previous study (Quiniou et al.), we showed that these sequences display specific biochemical and repertoire features and may represent a particular class of TCRs involved in early or heterologous immune responses. A classic cross reactivity based on structural motif sharing could not explain these results.

      We believe that the existence of such TCRs, rather than classic cross-reactive TCRs, has the potential to better explain why patients with extremely reduced TCR repertoires (around 3000 TCRs only) can respond well to various infectious challenges (https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.97.1.274) or why there are T cells with memory phenotypes against viruses not previously encountered (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3626102/ ). We acknowledge that direct experimental validation of the function of such TCRs is currently limited; further work will help clarify the notion of polyspecificity, and hopefully to better understand the overlooked “heterologous immunity”.

      Of note, a recent paper in Nature Machine Intelligence (https://doi.org/10.1038/s42256-02501096-6) described the in-silico generation of antigen-specific TCRs. Using our definition of polyspecificity (TCRs with higher generation probabilities, specific V/J gene preferences, shared CDR3s across individuals, and reactivity to multiple unrelated peptides), they showed that “multitask models preferentially sample polyspecific CDR3β sequences”. Therefore, we consider the debate on polyspecificity to be ongoing, and our discussion of polyspecificity in this paper to be part of this debate.

      (6) I agree that comparing specificity enrichment between sexes is meaningful. However, enrichment relative to the database composition itself is not biologically interpretable, as acknowledged by the authors in their response. I therefore recommend removing Supplementary Figure 15, which is potentially misleading.

      In the original manuscript, the comparison to the pooled database was intended as a descriptive assessment rather than as a biological enrichment analysis. Differences between an experimental thymic repertoire and a curated reference database are expected, given the structure and annotation biases inherent to the reference resource.

      The purpose of Supplementary Figures 15B and 15C was therefore twofold: (i) to provide a descriptive overview of how specificity categories are distributed in our thymic dataset relative to the curated database, and (ii) to evaluate whether deviations from database proportions were of similar magnitude in males and females, ensuring that database composition did not differentially bias one sex over the other. In addition, the donor-resolved representations demonstrate that these patterns are consistent across individuals and are not driven by a single donor.

      To avoid any potential misinterpretation, we have revised the manuscript to remove references to “enrichment” relative to database composition and eliminated quantitative comparisons to baseline database frequencies. The corresponding text and figure legends have been clarified to indicate that these analyses are descriptive and methodological in nature, while all biological interpretations rely exclusively on direct sex-specific comparisons within the thymic dataset.

      (7) In contrast, Supplementary Figure 16 represents the most convincing result of the study (keeping in mind that the AID group should be splitted to T1D and CeD with T1D and that T1D and CeD have opposing directions of sex biases) and should be shown as a main figure, replacing Figure 8A-B which is less convincing as it doesn't show per-donor distribution.

      (8) The authors argue that applying mixed-effects modeling to Rényi entropy would require assuming a common sex effect across subsets. I do not find this assumption unreasonable. For example, if sex effects are mediated through AIRE-dependent negative selection, one would indeed expect a consistent direction of effect across subsets. The lack of statistical significance in Figure 3 may reflect limited sample size rather than true absence of the difference. Moreover, the title's phrasing "comparable TCR repertoire diversity" is vague: what is the statistical definition of "comparable"?

      The use of “comparable” in comparing TCR repertoire diversity is indeed “soft”, and aimed to indicate that there are no obvious dissimilarities.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Minor comments:

      (1) Available HLA typing data for selected donors should be included as a table in the manuscript.

      The available low-resolution HLA typing data for the donors included in this study have been compiled and added as Supplementary Table 1 in the revised manuscript.

      (2) The authors' explanation for why external validation of gene usage biases was not possible should be concisely incorporated into the Discussion.

      We have incorporated a concise explanation in the Discussion clarifying why independent validation of the TRBV6-5 bias in external thymic datasets is currently not feasible, due to the absence of publicly available cohorts combining sorted thymic subsets, balanced sex representation, and sufficient sequencing depth.

      (3) The clarification that considered sex-specific motifs are public should be included explicitly in the main text, not only figure legend and methods.

      We now explicitly state in the main Results section that only public motifs, defined as motifs containing CDR3 sequences shared by at least two individuals, were retained in the analysis.

      (4) The statement "Thymocytes expressing TCRs with insufficient or excessive avidity are eliminated (negative selection)" is strictly speaking incorrect. Thymocytes with insufficient avidity are eliminated by death by neglect during positive selection.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out this imprecision. The statement has been corrected.

      (5) Figure 8C is unclear - what does "80% of unique polyspecific TCRs" mean? In any case, I strongly recommend removal of all polyspecificity-related analyses.

      We apologize for the lack of clarity in the axis label of Figure 8C. To clarify, this analysis represents the proportion of polyspecific CDR3aa sequences among all sequences with an assigned specificity within an individual’s repertoire. Specifically, it measures how many unique TCR sequences, previously identified as having a known specificity in reference databases, are also categorized as polyspecific.

      To address the reviewer’s concern, we have updated the Y-axis label of Figure 8C to: "Proportion of polyspecific CDR3aa among antigen-specific sequences (%)".

      (6) "However, no significant sex-based differences were found in the usage of hydrophobic, hydrophilic, or neutral aa at the critical p109 and p110 positions in TRB" - this Discussion statement is inconsistent with the new analysis on Fig. 4C.

      We regret that the Discussion still contained wording from a previous version of the analysis. The text has now been corrected to reflect the updated results showing a significant increase in hydrophobic amino acid usage at positions p109/p110.

      (7) In the Discussion the authors write: "the absence of age-related clustering in repertoire features (data not shown)". What is the reasoning for not showing the data?

      We understand the reviewer's point. This exploratory clustering analysis was performed on the data presented in the heatmaps (Figure 2B and Supplemental Figures 10-13). However, as it revealed no distinct patterns or clustering based on the donors' age (with samples from different age groups being interspersed throughout the clusters), we chose not to add an extra layer of annotation to Figure 2B to maintain clarity.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Age-related synaptic dysfunction can have detrimental effects on cognitive and locomotor function. Additionally, aging makes the nervous system vulnerable to late-onset neurodegenerative diseases. This manuscript by Marques et al. seeks to profile the cell surface proteomes of glia to uncover signaling pathways that are implicated in age-related neurodegeneration. They compared the glial cell-surface proteomes in the central brain of young (day 5) and old (day 50) flies and identified the most up- and down-regulated proteins during the aging process. 48 genes were selected for analysis in a lifespan screen, and interestingly, most sex-specific phenotypes. Among these, adult-specific pan-glial DIP-β overexpression (OE) significantly increased the lifespan of both males and females and improved their motor control ability. To investigate the effect of DIP-β in the aging brain, Marques et al. performed snRNA-seq on 50-day-old Drosophila brains with or without DIP-β OE in glia. Cortex and ensheathing glia showed the most differentially expressed genes. Computational analysis revealed that glial DIP-β OE increased cell-cell communication, particularly with neurons and fat cells.

      Strengths:

      (1) State-of-the-art methodology to reveal the cell surface proteomes of glia in young and old flies.

      (2) Rigorous analyses to identify differentially expressed proteins.

      (3) Examination of up- and down-regulated candidates and identification of glial-expressed mediators that impact fly lifespan.

      (4) Intriguing sex-specific glial genes that regulate life span.

      (5) Follow-up RNA-seq analysis to examine cellular transcriptomes upon overexpression of an identified candidate (DIP-β).

      (6) A compelling dataset for the community that should generate extensive interest and spawn many projects.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) DIP-β OE using flySAM:

      (a) These flies showed a larger increase in lifespan compared to using UAS-DIP-β (Figure 2 C, D). Do the authors think that flySAM is a more efficient way of OE than UAS? Also, the UAS construct would be specific to one DIP-β isoform, while flySAM would likely express all isoforms. Could this also contribute to the phenotypes observed?

      We agree with the reviewer that both can contribute to the different lifespan effect. In the original paper presenting flySAM1.0 and flySAM 2.0 (Jia et al., 2018), the authors first tested how flySAM1.0 overexpression (OE) phenotypes compare to several VPR (CRISPRa) and UAS:cDNA OE lines. They found that flySAM1.0 reliably outperforms (i.e., produces stronger OE phenotypes) than VPR in most cases, and produces OE phenotypes that are comparable (i.e., generally equivalent) to UAS:cDNA (Jia et al., 2018). After determining how flySAM1.0 performance compares to VPR and UAS:cDNA, the authors next tested if flySAM2.0 also outperforms VPR; they found that like flySAM1.0, flySAM2.0 outperforms VPR in most cases (Jia et al., 2018). In general, the data suggest that we should expect comparable overexpression phenotypes for our flySAM2.0 and UAS:cDNA lines.

      We chose to proceed with the DIP-β flySAM line for the climbing assays and snRNA-seq, as it gave a stronger lifespan effect and we thought it was likely to be the more robust OE line. While our glial cell-surface proteomics initially identified DIP-β isoform C as the candidate, it is possible that other DIP-β isoforms were also present (such as isoform F, which is identical in polypeptide sequence to isoform C) (FlyBase). Ultimately, we believe that the larger increases in lifespan observed for DIP-β flySAM are likely because flySAM targets all isoforms, whereas UAS:cDNA lines target only one isoform. Importantly, our UAS- DIP-β line was specific to DIP-β isoform C, which is the same isoform that was identified by our proteomics.

      We have made clarifications in the manuscript to address these comments.

      (b) The Glial-GS>DIP-β flySAM flies without RU-486 have significantly shorter lifespans (Figure 2C) than their UAS-DIP-β counterparts. flySAM is lethal when expressed under the control of tubulin-GAL4 (Jia et al. 2018), likely due to the toxicity of such high levels of overexpression. Is it possible that a larger increase in lifespan is due to the already reduced viability of these flies?

      This is a good point. The flySAM lines do exhibit a shorter baseline lifespan compared to the traditional UAS lines. This is likely due to the specific genetic background of the flySAM transgenic insertions, or a low level of "leaky" expression, as previously noted in the literature (Jia et al., 2018).

      However, we believe that the lifespan extensions we observed for DIP-β flySAM is a robust biological effect, rather than an artifact of reduced viability for the following reasons. First, by utilizing the GeneSwitch (GS) system, we can compare the lifespan of flies with the exact same genetic background (+/- RU-486). This ensures that the extension we report is specifically due to the induction of the transgene, rather than a comparison between disparate lines with different basal fitness levels. Second, if the lifespan extensions merely represented a recovery from lower baseline viability, we would expect to see similar improvements across other flySAM lines in our screen. However, DIP-β was the only candidate across our screen that significantly increased lifespan in both sexes (Extended Data Figs. 7 & 8). Third, the lifespan-extending effect of DIP-β was independently confirmed using a traditional UAS-cDNA line, which importantly does not share the same baseline viability issues as the flySAM lines.

      (c) Statistics: It is stated in the Methods that "statistical methods used are described in the figure legend of each relevant panel." However, there is no description of the statistics or sample sizes used in Figure 2.

      We have updated the figure legends for Figure 2 to include the missing statistical details and sample sizes.

      Specifically, for Fig. 2A: The reviewer is correct that with only two replicates of each time point (5d vs. 50d) in the initial proteomic screen, traditional p-value calculations lack the necessary power for meaningful interpretation. We have revised the legend to clarify that this panel represents a discovery-based screen. Candidates were selected based on biological relevance and specific enrichment thresholds to narrow the 872 proteins down to the 48 top candidates for screening (we were initially aiming to identify approximately 50 candidate genes for screening). For Fig. 2B: We have updated the legend to detail the parameters used for the Gene Ontology (GO) enrichment analysis.

      (2) Figure 3: The authors use a glial GeneSwitch (GS) to knock down and overexpress candidate genes. In Figure 3A, they look at glial-GS>UAS-GFP with and without RU. Without RU, there is no GFP expression, as expected. With RU, there is GFP expression. It is expected that all cell body GFP signal should colocalize with a glial nuclear marker (Repo). However, there is some signal that does not appear to be glia. Also, many glia do not express GFP, suggesting the glial GS driver does not label all glia. This could impact which glia are being targeted in several experiments.

      We thank the reviewer for this careful observation regarding the expression pattern of the GSG3285-1 line and acknowledge that the overlap between this driver and the Repo-positive cells is not absolute.

      Our selection of this specific GeneSwitch line was based on several critical experimental considerations: 1) To minimize background toxicity. We initially tested multiple Repo-GeneSwitch lines; however, we found they exhibited significant, genotype-dependent lifespan reductions upon RU486 administration, even in control crosses. This baseline toxicity confounded the interpretation of any potential lifespan effects. GSG3285-1 was chosen for this study, as it provided a robust control baseline and didn’t show lifespan effects with RU486 treatment in multiple control lines. This is essential for lifespan studies. 2) The driver breadth and specificity. As noted in its original characterization (Nicholson et al., 2008) and a later study (Catterson et al. 2023), GSG3285-1 is characterized as a pan-glial driver, though it may include a small population of sensory neurons. Furthermore, while Repo is a standard glial marker, its antibody does not label all glial subtypes with equal intensity. The "non-overlapping" signal observed in Figure 3A may reflect this staining bias. 3) The expression mosaicism. The fact that some glial cells do not show GFP expression suggests a degree of mosaicism, which is common to many GeneSwitch lines (Osterwalder et al., 2001). While we acknowledge this means our manipulations may target a broader subset — rather than every single glial cell — the fact that we still observed significant lifespan effects across two independent platforms (UAS and CRISPRa) suggests that the targeted population is sufficient to mediate these systemic effects.

      We have added a clarifying statement to contextualize the choice of the GSG3285-1 driver and its relationship to the Repo population.

      (3) It is interesting that sex-specific lifespan effects were observed in the candidate screen.

      (a) The authors should provide a discussion about these sex-specific differences and their thoughts about why these were observed.

      We agree that the sex-specific effects observed in our lifespan screen are one interesting aspect of this study. We have added a dedicated section to the Discussion exploring these differences from both a technical and biological perspective.

      On the technical side, the GeneSwitch inducer, RU486, can have sex-specific effects on metabolism and lifespan, depending on the nutritional environment (Dos Santos & Cocheme, 2024). Specifically, RU486 has been shown to counteract the lifespan-shortening effects of mating in females, an effect that is less pronounced in males (Landis et al., 2015; Tower et al., 2017). While we optimized our media and used the GSG3285-1 line to minimize these baseline effects, it remains possible that certain genotypes exhibited a sex-specific sensitivity to the inducer itself. Beyond the technical considerations, sex differences in aging are well-documented in Drosophila and other organisms (Regan et al., 2016; Austad & Fischer, 2016). Male and female flies exhibit distinct transcriptional trajectories and metabolic shifts as they age. Furthermore, recent studies have highlighted that glial function and the neuroinflammatory landscape can differ significantly between sexes, which may dictate how a specific genetic manipulation impacts the aging process in a sex-dependent manner (PMID: 40951920). While our screen identifies DIP-β as a rare candidate that extends lifespan in both sexes, the prevalence of female-specific hits in our data suggests that the female "aging program" may be more plastic or responsive to the specific glial pathways we targeted. These observations provide a valuable foundation for future studies into the mechanisms of sex-specific neuroprotection.

      (b) The authors should also provide information regarding the sex of the flies used in the glial cell surface proteome study.

      It is a mixture of half male and half female flies. This information has been added to the main text, Fig. 1, and to the methods section.

      (c) Also, beyond the scope of this study, examining sex-specific glial proteomes could reveal additional insights into age-related pathways affecting males and females differentially.

      Agreed, this would be a great idea for future studies.

      (4) The behavioral assay used in this study (climbing) tests locomotion driven by motor neurons. The proteomic analysis was performed with the adult brain, which does not include the nerve cord, where motor neurons reside. While likely beyond the scope of this study, it would be informative to test other behaviors, including learning, circadian rhythms, etc.

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful point. While our initial proteomic screen focused on the adult central brain, our behavioral validation used a pan-glial driver, which targets glia throughout the entire nervous system, including the ventral nerve cord (VNC). We have addressed the reviewer's comment as below:

      Additional behavioral data: As suggested, we performed Drosophila Activity Monitoring (DAM) assays to evaluate circadian locomotor rhythms in 50-day-old DIP-β overexpression flies compared to negative controls. Interestingly, we did not detect significant changes in circadian activity at this time point.

      The difference between our climbing and circadian results highlights the complexity of age-related decline. In Drosophila, locomotor performance (i.e., climbing) and circadian coordination often decouple. For example, specific isoforms of human Tau (hTau) can induce severe cognitive and neurodegenerative deficits without affecting lifespan or motor coordination in the same manner (Sealey et al., 2017). Furthermore, motor-specific defects can emerge independently of systemic lifespan changes, as seen in certain SOD1 models of ALS (Hirth, 2010). It is possible that the 50-day timepoint represents a specific window where motor coordination is improved by DIP-β, while circadian circuits — governed by distinct glial-neuronal interactions — remain largely unaffected, or require a different temporal window for observation.

      We agree that identifying the specific glial populations (central brain vs VNC) responsible for the improved climbing would be highly informative. While the current study establishes the pro-longevity effect of DIP-β, future work utilizing in-situ proteomics on the fully intact CNS (including the VNC) or specific VNC will be essential to map the stereotyped progression of these effects across the peripheral and central nervous systems.

      (5) It is surprising that overexpressing a CAM in glia has such a broad impact on the transcriptomes of so many different cell types. Could this be due to DIP-β OE maintaining the brain in a "younger" state and indirectly influencing the transcriptomes? Instead of DIP-β OE in glia directly influencing cell-cell interactions? Can the authors comment on this?

      We agree that the observed changes likely represent a combination of direct cell-cell interactions and a broader, more indirect maintenance of a "younger" physiological state.

      Direct: Among the DIP family, DIP-β exhibits some of the strongest and most promiscuous binding affinities, interacting with a wide array of partners including Dpr6, 8, 9, 15, and 21 (Cosmanescu et al., 2018; Sergeeva et al., 2020). This biochemical flexibility allows DIP-β to potentially interface with a much broader range of neuronal subtypes than other DIP family members, such as DIP-δ, which exclusively binds Dpr12 and did not extend lifespan in our screen. It is possible that by overexpressing DIP-β, we may be partially compensating for the global downregulation of CAMs that typically occurs during aging, thereby preserving essential glial-neuronal communication integrity.

      Indirect: By maintaining these primary glial functions and communication activities, DIP-β overexpression likely delays the overall "aging" of the brain. This preservation of neural health can have downstream effects on systemic physiology, such as the improved glia-fat body communication we observed in 50-day-old flies. In this model, the broad transcriptomic shifts are not necessarily all direct targets of DIP-β, but rather a signature of a brain that has successfully avoided the catastrophic breakdown of homeostasis typically seen in aged wild-type flies.

      We have expanded the Discussion to clarify this distinction, adding that DIP-β likely acts as a "scaffold" or “bridge” for maintaining a younger brain state, which in turn preserves multi-organ communication.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      This manuscript presents an ambitious and technically innovative study that combines in situ cell-surface proteomics, functional genetic screening, and single-nucleus RNA sequencing to uncover glial factors that influence aging in Drosophila. The authors identify DIP-β as a glial protein whose overexpression extends lifespan and report intriguing sex-specific differences in lifespan outcomes. Overall, the study is conceptually compelling and offers a valuable dataset that will be of considerable interest to researchers studying glia-neuron communication, aging biology, and proteomic profiling in vivo.

      The in-situ proteomic labeling approach represents a notable methodological advance. If validated more extensively, it has the potential to become a widely used resource for probing glial aging mechanisms. The use of an inducible glial GeneSwitch driver is another strength, enabling the authors to carefully separate aging-relevant effects from developmental confounds. These technical choices meaningfully elevate the rigor of the study and support its central conclusions. The discovery of new candidate genes from the proteomics pipeline, including DIP-β, is intriguing and opens new avenues for understanding glial contributions to organismal lifespan. The observation of sex-specific lifespan effects is particularly interesting and warrants further exploration; the study sets the stage for future work in this direction.

      At the same time, several areas would benefit from clarification or additional analysis to fully support the manuscript's claims:

      (1) The manuscript frequently refers to "improved" or "increased" cell-cell communication following DIP-β overexpression, but the meaning of this term remains somewhat vague. Because the current analysis relies largely on transcriptomic predictions, it would be helpful to define precisely what metric is being used, e.g., increased numbers of predicted ligand-receptor interactions, enrichment of specific signaling pathways, or altered expression of communication-related components. Strengthening the mechanistic link between DIP-β, cell-cell communication, and lifespan extension, potentially through targeted validation of specific glial interactions, would substantially reinforce the interpretation.

      We agree that a more precise description of “improved” or “increased” cell-cell communication is necessary.

      Our conclusion that DIP-β overexpression is associated with “increased” cell-cell communication is based on the quantification of our CCC scores, which was performed using FlyPhoneDB2, a computational tool used to estimate cell-cell signaling from single-cell RNA-sequencing data (Liu et al., 2021; Qadiri et al., 2025). To infer cell-cell signaling, FlyPhoneDB2 and its predecessor, FlyPhoneDB, calculate “interaction scores,” comparing the expression levels of a curated list of ligand-receptor pairs between cell types (Liu et al., 2021; Qadiri et al., 2025). For example, if we detect a ligand in cell type A and its receptor in cell type B in DIP-β overexpression flies but didn’t detect both ligand and receptor in control flies, the CCC score is increased by 1. FlyPhoneDB2 additionally enables users to estimate signaling activity by also taking into consideration the expression of downstream reporter genes (Qadiri et al., 2025).

      “Improved cell-cell communication” is our interpretation based on the CCC analysis. It is important to note that the metric being used here (increased CCCs) is the number of predicted ligand-receptor interactions, and that our CCC analysis was based entirely on inferences from snRNA-seq data. We have added further clarification to our manuscript, which now further expands on the results of our CCC analysis (i.e., the increased expression for 61% and decreased expression for 39% of ligand-receptor pairs we observed in our DIP-β overexpression group, compared to our negative control), which ultimately led us to conclude that DIP-β overexpression is associated with improved cell-cell communication.

      (2) The lifespan screen is central to the paper, and clearer visualization and contextualization of these results would significantly improve the manuscript's impact. For example, Figure 3D is challenging to interpret in its current form. More explicit presentation of which manipulations extend lifespan in each sex, along with effect sizes and significance values, would provide clarity. Including positive controls for lifespan extension would also help contextualize the magnitude of the observed effects. The reported effects of DIP-β, while promising, are modest relative to baseline effects of RU feeding, and a discussion of this would help appropriately calibrate the conclusions.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s suggestion to improve the clarity of the lifespan screen results. We have significantly revised Figures 3D, 3E, and 3F to provide a more intuitive summary of the candidate gene manipulations. Figures 3D and 3E now explicitly include the effect sizes and p-values for each candidate gene, broken down by sex. We also added a new Figure 3G with a visual layout that has been streamlined to allow for quick identification of manipulations that successfully extended lifespan.

      The reviewer raises an important point regarding the use of positive controls to calibrate the magnitude of lifespan extension. We carefully considered adding a standard control (such as Rapamycin treatment); however, we opted against it for several methodological reasons:

      As noted in the literature, the magnitude of lifespan extension from standard controls can vary drastically depending on genetic background and lab environment. For instance, Rapamycin-induced extension ranges from ~10% (Schinaman et al., 2019), to over 80% (Landis et al., 2024). We felt that adding a single positive control might provide a false sense of "calibration" rather than a true universal benchmark.

      To ensure the robustness of our findings, we instead employed a dual-validation strategy. We confirmed the lifespan-extending effects of our candidates using both traditional UAS:cDNA and CRISPR-based overexpression. The fact that two independent genetic systems yielded consistent results provides strong internal evidence for the reported effects.

      We acknowledge that the effects of DIP-β are modest when compared to the baseline impact of RU486 feeding. We have added a section to the Discussion addressing this. While the effects are subtle, their reproducibility across different overexpression platforms suggests they are biologically relevant, even if they do not reach the dramatic shifts seen in some caloric restriction or drug-based models.

      We have further addressed this in the results section.

      (3) Several figures would benefit from improved labeling or more detailed legends. For instance, the meaning of "N" and "C" in Figure 1D is unclear; Figure 3A should clarify that Repo is a glial marker; and Figure 5C appears to have truncated labels. Reordering certain panels (e.g., moving control data in Figure 4A-B) may also improve narrative flow. These refinements would greatly aid reader comprehension.

      We have modified and improved the labeling of these figures to increase the clarity. For Fig. 1D, we added the explanation to the Figure legends. In brief, in the Tandem Mass Tag (TMT) isobaric labeling system, 128N is one of many channels (126, 127N, 127C, 128N, 128C, etc.) used to index and compare up to 18 samples simultaneously, improving throughput and reducing missing values.

      Fig. 3A has been updated to clarify that Repo is the glial marker. Fig. 4A-D have been reordered so that the DIP- β lifespan results are presented before the control lifespan, which hopefully improves the narrative flow of this figure. The Fig. 4 references in the manuscript have also been updated to match these changes. Additionally, Fig. 5C has been updated to include the truncated x-axis and y-axis labels.

      (4) A few claims would be strengthened by more specific references or acknowledgment of alternative interpretations. Examples include the phenoxy-radical labeling radius, the impact of H₂O₂ exposure, and the specificity of neutravidin. Additionally, downregulation of synapse-related GO terms may reflect age-related transcriptional changes rather than impaired glia-neuron communication per se, and this possibility should be recognized. The term "unbiased" to describe the screen may also be reconsidered, given the preselection of candidate genes.

      These are good suggestions. We have added references for the phenoxy-radical labeling radius (Durojaye, 2021), the impact of H₂O₂ exposure (J. Li et al., 2021), and the binding specificity of neutravidin (J. Li et al., 2021). We have also removed the term “unbiased” from our manuscript.

      Regarding the request to further address the downregulation of synapse-related GO terms, we believe this indicates a lack of clarity on our part. We did not intend to suggest that our GO analyses, which were based on our proteomics data, were necessarily indicative of impaired neuron-glia communication. Our conclusions regarding altered neuron-glia communication have come from our later snRNA-seq data and analyses. Inspired by this comment, we agree that our differential gene analysis may reflect transcriptional changes rather than impaired glia-neuron communication. We have added such alternative interpretation.

      (5) Clarifying the rationale for focusing on central brain glia over optic-lobe glia would be useful. 

      Agreed! As the intended focus of this study was the more general changes occurring during normal brain aging, we chose to focus on the central brain for our glial cell-surface proteomics, which is responsible for most of the brain’s higher order functions, including learning and memory, signal integration, behavior, etc. As the optic lobes account for approximately half of all neurons in the adult Drosophila brain and are specialized to process visual stimuli (Robinson et al., 2025), we were concerned that including the optic lobes in our glial cell-surface proteomics could strongly bias our findings towards age-related changes in visual function, rather than the more general changes we intended to focus on. Such clarification has been added to the results section (Quantitative comparison of young and old proteomes).

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Line 62: Can the authors expand on "several changes"?

      We have added a sentence expanding upon this in the manuscript draft.

      (2) Line 137: Can the authors provide a reference for the phenoxyl radical half-life?

      Thanks for catching this. We’ve added our reference for the phenoxyl radical half-life.

      (3) Figure 1B: The authors state that neutravidin stained glia; however, there is no glial marker (e.g., anti-Repo) in this panel.

      We acknowledge the reviewer’s point. The lack of anti-Repo staining in Figure 1B is due to the requirements of the Neutravidin-Alexa 647 detection method. Because this procedure bypasses traditional primary and secondary antibody incubation to preserve the biotin signal, co-staining with Repo was not technically feasible. Nevertheless, we utilized the Repo-GAL4 driver to express UAS-CD2-HRP; since this driver is well-documented and specific to glial cells, the Neutravidin signal serves as a functional readout of the targeted glial population.

      (4) Line 254: There is no Figure 2D.

      We’ve corrected this to Fig. 2C.

      (5) Lines 390-396: No reference to the respective figures.

      We’ve made a couple corrections to reference all the respective figures.

      (6) Figure 5C: The X-axis is cut off.

      This has been corrected.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Minor inconsistencies (e.g., figure references-line 254 references "Figure 2D" where none exists) should be corrected.

      We’ve corrected this to Fig. 2C.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      We thank the reviewers and editors for the second round of peer review. Following the editorial assessment and specific review comments, we now present new results to compare EDS and IDS behavior, and use conventional standard for reporting statistics. We also request to simplify the manuscript title to be ‘Locus coeruleus modulation of prefrontal dynamics during attentional switching in mice’.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      In their response to reviewers, the authors say "We report p values using 2 decimal points and standard language as suggested by this reviewer". However, no changes were made in the manuscript: for example, "P = 4.2e-3" rather than "p = 0.004".

      We apologize for this misunderstanding. We initially interpreted this comment as reporting two non-zero digits in p values. We now have corrected this in the revision. We also follow the editorial recommendation and use a standard convention to report statistics (e.g., p = 0.03, t(7) = -2.8).

      In their response to the reviewers, they wrote: "Upon closer examination of the behavioral data, we exclude several sessions where more trials were taken in IDS than in EDS." If those sessions in which EDSIDS. Most problematic is the fact that the manuscript now reads "Importantly, control mice (pooled from Fig. 1e, 1h, Supp. Fig. 1a, 1b) took more trials to complete EDS than IDS (Trials to criterion: IDS vs. EDS, 10 {plus minus} 1 trials vs. 16 {plus minus} 1 trials, P < 1e-3, Supp. Fig. 1c), further supporting the validity of attentional switching (as in Fig. 1c)" without mentioning that data has been excluded.

      Editor raised a similar concern. We apologize for this oversight, which was due to miscommunication within the lab. We have now revised the manuscript to include all data points without any exclusion in Fig. 1e, 1h, and Supp. Fig. 1a-c. By pooling all data without any exclusion, control mice readily took more trials to complete EDS than IDS, supporting the validity of attentional switching (Trials to criterion: IDS vs. EDS, 11 ± 1 trials vs. 15 ± 1 trials, p = 0.006, Supp. Fig. 1c).

      The exclusion we initially meant to perform was to exclude sessions where task performance in IDS was beyond 95% threshold inferred from the naïve control group (15 trials, Fig. 1c). Exclusions are now explicitly described. Of note, including or excluding these sessions does not change any of the conclusions presented in our manuscript. We have added this analysis in Supp. Fig. 1d and the results remain robust (Supp. Fig. 1d). This panel could be removed if deemed unnecessary by the reviewers.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      The authors overall do a nice job of addressing reviewer comments, and I believe the manuscript is significantly improved. Congratulations!

      We thank you for this positive assessment.

      Weaknesses are mostly minor, but there are some caveats that should be considered. First, the authors use a DBH-Cre mouse line and provide histological confirmation of overlap between HM4Di expression and TH immunostaining. While this strongly suggests modulation of noradrenergic circuit activity, the results should be interpreted conservatively as there is no independent confirmation that norepinephrine (NE) release is suppressed and these neurons are known to release other neurotransmitters and signaling peptides. In the absence of additional control experiments, it is important to recognize that effects on mPFC activity may or may not be directly due to LC-mPFC NE.

      We agree with this comment, and now further discuss this limitation in Discussion, line 255-259:

      “However, it is important to note that LC-NE neurons can co-release other neurotransmitters, such as dopamine and neuropeptides[73,75,76]. In the absence of further control experiments to confirm the suppression of NE release, the observed effects on mPFC may or may not be directly due to NE. Future studies are needed to better delineate the involvement of specific neurotransmitters, cell types and receptors in flexible decision making.”

      Another caveat is that the imaging analyses are entirely from the extradimensional shift session. Without analyzing activity data from the intradimensional shift (IDS) session, one cannot be certain that the observed changes are to some feature of activity that is specific to extradimensional shifts. Future experiments should examine animals with LC suppression during the IDS as well, which would show whether the observed effects are specific to an extradimensional shift and might explain behavioral effects.

      We also agree with this comment, and have thought about this. Technically, IDS has low trial numbers, especially incorrect trials, limiting the power of statistical comparisons. Conceptually, since in our paradigm EDS is always the last stage, comparing neural signals in EDS with previous stages may be confounded by the order of learning. That is, whether the observed differences in mPFC activity were due to mPFC responding to different rules, or due to mPFC responses over time/learning. We now discuss this point in Discussion, line 291-295:

      “Another limitation in the current study is that neurophysiological analyses were entirely from EDS. Without comparing with other task stages (e.g., REV, IDS), it is uncertain to what extent the observed neuronal changes are specific to EDS. Future experiments should examine the behavioral and neurophysiological effects with LC inhibition to determine the specificity of LC-NE modulation of the mPFC during attentional switching.”

      We are also actively collecting additional data to address this point, which requires considerable efforts. We hope to report our findings in a follow up study.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Genetically encoded fluorescent proteins expressed in specific cell types allow recognising them in vivo and, if the protein is a functional indicator, as in the case of genetically encoded calcium indicators (GECIs), to record activity from the same cellular ensemble. Ideally, if proteins (fluorophores) have perfectly distinct spectral properties, signals can be distinguished from as many cell types as the number of employed fluorophores. In practice, fluorescent proteins have non-negligible crosstalk both in absorption and emission bands. In addition, fluorescence contribution of each fluorophore normally varies from cell to cell and therefore spectral properties of cells expressing two or more proteins are different. The work of Phillips et al. addresses this challenge. The authors present an approach defined as "Neuroplex", allowing identification of up to nine cell types from the same number of fluorophores. The fingerprint of each cell is then associated with functional fluorescence from the GECI GCaMP, allowing recording calcium activity from that specific cell. The method is implemented in vivo using head-mounted miniscopes.

      The authors used a mouse line expressing GCaMP in cortical pyramidal neurons and developed an experimental pipeline. First, they injected the nine AAV viruses, causing expression of fluorophores in a different brain area. The idea was not to image that area, but a non-infected medial prefrontal cortex (mPFC) section where neurons could be infected by their axons projecting in an injected area, in this way being identified by their targeting region(s). A GRIN lens, allowing spectral analysis, was mounted in the mPFC section, and GCaMP fluorescence was then recorded during behavioural tasks and analysed to identify regions of interest (ROIs) corresponding to neuron somata. After functional imaging, the head of the mouse was fixed, spectral analysis was performed, and after necessary correction for chromatic distortions, the fluorophore contribution was determined for each ROI (neuron) from where GCaMP signals were detected. Notably, the procedures for estimation and correction of chromatic aberration and light transmission (described in Figure 2) were a major challenge in their technical achievements. The selection of the nine fluorophores was another big effort. This was done by combining computer simulations and direct measurement of spectra from individual proteins expressed in HEK293 cells. It is important to say that the authors could simulate arbitrary combinations of two or more different fluorophores and evaluate the ability of their algorithm to detect the correct proteins against wrong estimations of false-negative (absence of an expressed protein) or false-positive (presence of a non-expressed protein). Not surprisingly, this ability decreases with the level of GCaMP expression. The authors underline that most errors were false-negatives, which have a milder impact in terms of result interpretation, but the rate of false positives was, nevertheless, relevant in detecting a second fluorophore from a cell expressing only one protein. The experimental profiles of fluorophores were dependent both on the specific fluorescent protein and on the projecting area, and the distribution of double-labelled did not match anatomical evidence. This result should be taken as the limitation of the present pioneering experiments, presented as proof-of-principle of the approach, but Neuroplex may provide far improved precision under different experimental conditions.

      In my view, the work of Phillips et al. represents a significant advance in the state-of-the-art of the field. The rigorous analysis of limitations in the use of Neuroplex must be considered an important guideline for future uses of this approach.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s positive evaluation and thoughtful comments.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript introduces Neuroplex, a pipeline that integrates miniscope Ca²⁺ imaging in freely moving mice with multiplexed confocal and spectral imaging to infer projection identities of recorded neurons. This technical approach is promising and could broaden access to projection-resolved population imaging. However, the core quantitative analyses apply a winner-take-all single-label assignment per neuron even when multiple fluorophores exceed threshold, with additional labels treated descriptively as "secondary hits." While the authors acknowledge and simulate dual labeling, the extent to which this single-label decision rule affects subtype fractions and behavioural comparisons remains uncertain without a multi-label (or probabilistic) sensitivity analysis and propagation of classification uncertainty.

      We thank Reviewer #2 for the careful statistical perspective and focus on assignment strategy and uncertainty. Importantly, we emphasize that Neuroplex is presented as a methodological proof-of-principle, not as a definitive quantification of projection convergence.

      Strengths:

      (1) Conceptual advance and practicality: Decoupling acquisition from identity readout constitutes an innovative approach that is, in principle, applicable in laboratories currently using single-color miniscopes.

      (2) Engineering thoroughness: The manuscript offers detailed consideration of GRIN optics, spectral libraries, registration procedures, and simulations that address signal-to-noise ratio, background, and class imbalances.

      (3) Immediate community value: If demonstrated to be robust, the pipeline could enable projection-resolved analyses without reliance on specialized multicolor miniscopes.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Single-label assignment in the main analyses: When multiple fluorophores exceed threshold for a neuron/ROI, the workflow applies a winner-take-all rule and assigns a single label (the fluorophore with the largest standardized beta), while additional above-threshold fluorophores are retained only as "secondary hits." This is a reasonable specificity-first choice, but because cortical excitatory neurons can collateralize, collapsing dual-threshold ROIs to one identity may under-represent dual-projecting cells and could bias estimated subtype fractions and behavioural comparisons.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important conceptual point.

      We agree that cortical excitatory neurons frequently collateralize and therefore may legitimately express more than one retrograde fluorophore. Our use of a winner-take-all (WTA) rule in the primary analyses was an intentionally conservative methodological choice designed to prioritize specificity over sensitivity in this proof-of-principle study.

      As demonstrated in our simulations (Supp. Fig. 5–6), under realistic background and noise conditions, secondary assignments are more susceptible to false-positive errors than primary assignments. For this reason, we chose to assign a single primary identity for quantitative behavioral stratification while retaining additional above-threshold fluorophores as “secondary hits” and reporting their distribution separately (Supp. Fig. 7).

      We did not intend to imply that projections are exclusive. Rather, the WTA strategy provides a conservative lower-bound estimate of subtype proportions and avoids inflation of dual-label rates under conditions where spectral separability is imperfect.

      We agree that this rationale should be stated more explicitly in the manuscript, and that the potential impact of assignment strategy on subtype fractions and behavioral comparisons should be acknowledged clearly as a methodological trade-off rather than a biological claim.

      Importantly, the biological analyses presented in this manuscript are illustrative demonstrations of functional stratification capability and do not depend on exclusivity of projection identity. We have revised the manuscript to clarify this framing as follows:

      “If multiple fluorophores exceeded the threshold for an ROI, the fluorophore with the largest z-scored beta value was assigned as the primary identity (winner-take-all rule). This conservative approach was chosen to prioritize specificity under realistic noise and background conditions. Additional above-threshold fluorophores were retained as ‘secondary hits’ but were not incorporated into primary subtype stratification analyses.” (Methods, Single Pass Algorithm)

      “For quantitative behavioral comparisons, each ROI was assigned a single primary fluorophore identity using a winner-take-all rule. We emphasize that this assignment strategy does not imply projection exclusivity. Rather, it provides a conservative lower-bound estimate of subtype proportions, as ROIs exceeding threshold for multiple fluorophores were classified according to their strongest spectral contribution.” (Result, Fluorophore distribution in behaviorally relevant ROIs)

      “These analyses were performed using conservative single-label assignments; dual-threshold ROIs were not treated as co-identities in order to avoid overinterpretation of potentially ambiguous multi-label cells. Because identity assignment prioritizes specificity and classification uncertainty was not formally propagated into downstream comparisons, subtype fractions and behavior-by-subtype differences should be interpreted as qualitative demonstrations of projection-resolved functional stratification rather than precise anatomical quantifications. ” (Results, Neuronal Cell Type and Behavior)

      “Cortical pyramidal neurons frequently collateralize to multiple downstream targets, and accordingly some ROIs exceeded threshold for more than one fluorophore. In this proof-of-principle implementation, we adopted a specificity-first winner-take-all assignment rule for primary analyses to minimize false-positive multi-label calls under realistic noise conditions. This strategy likely underestimates the true prevalence of dual-projecting neurons and should therefore be interpreted as a conservative stratification approach rather than a statement of projection exclusivity.” (Discussion)

      (2) Dual-label detection is acknowledged but remains descriptive in vivo: the manuscript explicitly discusses the possibility of dual projection, evaluates dual-fluorophore detection in simulations (including performance under realistic noise/background), and reports in vivo rates of secondary hits. However, these dual-threshold events are not incorporated as co-identities in the main statistical analyses, making it difficult to judge how robust the principal biological conclusions are to the single-label decision rule.

      We thank the reviewer for this important clarification request.

      We agree that dual-projection neurons are biologically plausible and that dual-threshold ROIs were detected in vivo. In this manuscript, however, our primary goal was to establish the feasibility of high-dimensional spectral assignment and projection-resolved stratification, rather than to provide a definitive quantification of projection convergence.

      For this proof-of-principle study, we chose a conservative winner-take-all (WTA) framework for primary behavioral analyses in order to minimize false-positive multi-label assignments under realistic noise and background conditions, as demonstrated in our simulations (Supp. Fig. 5–6). Secondary hits were retained and reported descriptively (Supp. Fig. 7), but not incorporated into the primary statistical comparisons to avoid overinterpretation of potentially ambiguous dual-label calls.

      Importantly, the principal biological conclusions presented in the manuscript are qualitative demonstrations that projection-defined stratification is feasible within a single animal. These conclusions do not rely on projection exclusivity or on precise quantification of dual-projecting fractions.

      We agree that this distinction should be made clearer in the manuscript, and we have revised the text as follows:

      “Although dual-threshold ROIs were detected in vivo, these secondary assignments were not incorporated as co-identities in the primary behavioral analyses. This decision reflects a conservative specificity-first framework designed to minimize false-positive multi-label calls under realistic noise conditions. Accordingly, dual-label rates reported here should be interpreted descriptively. The present study focuses on demonstrating the feasibility of projection-resolved stratification, rather than providing definitive quantification of projection convergence.” (Results, Fluorophore distribution in behaviorally relevant ROIs)

      “We then stratified these neurons by projection target and examined behaviorally selective activity across cell types. These analyses were performed using conservative single-label assignments; dual-threshold ROIs were not treated as co-identities in order to avoid overinterpretation of potentially ambiguous multi-label cells. Because identity assignment prioritizes specificity and classification uncertainty was not formally propagated into downstream comparisons, subtype fractions and behavior-by-subtype differences should be interpreted as qualitative demonstrations of projection-resolved functional stratification rather than precise anatomical quantifications.” (Results, Behavioral Analysis)

      (3) Uncertainty is not propagated: False-positive/false-negative rates from simulations and uncertainty from registration/segmentation are not carried forward into quantitative confidence bounds on subtype proportions or behaviour-by-subtype effects.

      We agree that formal propagation of classification and registration uncertainty into subtype proportions and behavioral comparisons would be appropriate in a study primarily focused on precise anatomical quantification. However, the central goal of the present manuscript is methodological and to demonstrate that high-dimensional spectral identity can be reliably linked to miniscope-recorded functional activity within a single animal.

      We have shown that simulations under realistic noise, background, and class imbalance conditions (Supp. Fig 5-6) show that errors are predominantly false negatives rather than false positives. However, behavioral analyses are presented as qualitative demonstrations of the feasibility of projection-resolved stratification rather than as definitive quantitative anatomical measurements.

      In the revised manuscript, we clarified that 1) subtype proportions and behavioral effects are assignment-dependent estimates, 2) simulation-derived error rates provide guidance for experimental design rather than formal confidence intervals, and 3) future studies centered on precise quantification of projection fractions would benefit from formal uncertainty modeling, as follows:

      “These simulation-derived accuracy estimates characterize expected performance under defined noise and background conditions but were not formally propagated into confidence bounds on subtype proportions or behavioral comparisons. In this proof-of-principle study, subtype fractions are presented as assignment-dependent estimates rather than definitive anatomical measurements.” (Results, Assessment of spectral unmixing approach)

      “Because classification uncertainty was not formally propagated into these analyses, behavior-by-subtype comparisons should be interpreted as qualitative demonstrations of functional stratification rather than precise quantitative estimates.” (Results, Neuronal cell types and behavior)

      “The modeling framework was designed to characterize expected classification behavior across a range of experimental regimes, including background fluorescence, class imbalance, and reduced signal-to-noise ratio. These simulations provide practical performance guidance but were not used to compute formal error bars or propagate uncertainty into downstream biological analyses.” (Methods, Modeling of experimental variables to assess accuracy of algorithms)

      “Because the present study is designed to establish methodological feasibility rather than precise anatomical quantification, simulation-derived false-positive and false-negative regimes were not formally propagated into confidence bounds on subtype proportions or behavioral effect sizes. Accordingly, subtype fractions should be interpreted as assignment-dependent estimates rather than definitive anatomical measurements. Future implementations could incorporate Bayesian or likelihood-based classifiers to generate posterior identity probabilities and enable formal uncertainty propagation when quantitative estimation of projection convergence is central to the biological question.” (Discussion)

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      This manuscript presents Neuroplex, a technically rigorous and carefully validated pipeline that links miniscope calcium imaging in freely behaving animals with high-dimensional fluorophore-based cell-type identification using in vivo multiplexed spectral confocal imaging through the same implanted GRIN lens. The work overcomes a major practical limitation of head-mounted microscopy by enabling the identification of up to nine projection-defined neuronal populations within the same animal, without post-fixation histology. The approach is well motivated and supported by extensive calibration and simulation. While the biological results are primarily illustrative, the methodological contribution is clear and likely to be broadly useful.

      Major comments

      (1) The approach relies on the assumption that fluorophore identity assigned during anesthetized confocal imaging accurately reflects the identity of neurons recorded during prior behavioural sessions. While the use of the same GRIN lens and in vivo co-registration mitigates many concerns, the manuscript would benefit from a more explicit discussion, or empirical demonstration, if available, of the stability of fluorophore assignments across time. Even limited repeat spectral imaging in a subset of animals would strengthen confidence in longitudinal applicability.

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting this important conceptual assumption.

      Fluorophore identity in Neuroplex is genetically encoded via AAVretro delivery and therefore does not depend on transient physiological state. Spectral imaging is performed in vivo through the same GRIN lens and field of view used during behavioral imaging, and co-registration relies on anatomical landmarks. While repeat spectral imaging was not formally performed as a longitudinal experiment, the underlying fluorescent protein expression is stable over weeks, and there is no biological mechanism in this paradigm that would alter fluorophore identity across sessions.

      We revised the manuscript to explicitly state this assumption and clarify why identity stability is expected as follows:

      “…fluorophore signals and reduce unmixing fidelity, leading to an increased false positive rate. Fluorophore identity in this framework is genetically encoded via retrograde AAV delivery and is therefore expected to remain stable across behavioral and spectral imaging sessions. Because both functional and spectral data are acquired in vivo through the same GRIN lens and co-registered using anatomical landmarks, assignment stability is not expected to vary across time unless expression levels change substantially. While repeat spectral imaging was not performed as a formal longitudinal experiment in this study, the stability of fluorescent protein expression supports the assumption that fluorophore identity reflects a persistent cellular attribute.” (Discussion)

      (2) Fluorophore identity is determined using thresholding of linear unmixing coefficients relative to an empirically defined baseline, followed by a second adaptive pass for over-represented fluorophores. While this heuristic is extensively validated via simulations, it remains ad hoc from a statistical perspective. The authors should more explicitly justify this choice and discuss its limitations relative to probabilistic or likelihood-based classifiers, particularly with respect to uncertainty estimation at the single-ROI level.

      We agree that the dual-pass thresholding approach is heuristic rather than fully probabilistic. More formal probabilistic classifiers are possible but would introduce additional modeling assumptions and training requirements beyond the scope of this proof-of-principle study.

      We revised our manuscript to clarify this as follows:

      “The current classification framework relies on linear unmixing followed by empirically defined thresholding rather than full probabilistic inference. This approach provides transparency and practical robustness under realistic noise and background conditions but does not generate single-ROI posterior uncertainty estimates. ” (Discussion)

      (3) Identifiability of fluorophores is demonstrated empirically, but the manuscript does not explicitly quantify spectral separability (e.g., similarity metrics between basis spectra or conditioning of the unmixing matrix). A brief analysis of spectral independence or sensitivity of beta estimates to noise would provide mathematical reassurance, especially given the reliance on linear regression in a high-dimensional feature space.

      We agree that spectral separability is conceptually important. In this manuscript, separability is demonstrated empirically through 1) In vitro fingerprint acquisition under identical optical conditions, 2) simulation under background and noise, and 3) successful in vivo classification across regimes. We did not compute formal matrix conditioning metrics, but we agree that the separability rationale should be described more explicitly. We revised our manuscript as:

      “While formal conditioning metrics were not explicitly computed empirical fingerprint acquisition and simulation-based perturbation analyses demonstrate sufficient spectral independence for reliable linear unmixing under the tested regimes.” (Discussion)

      (4) The spectral unmixing treats CNMF-derived ROIs as fixed supports. I wonder whether ROI boundaries, neuropil contamination, and partial overlap can introduce structured uncertainty that could bias spectral estimates. If so, the authors should acknowledge this dependency more explicitly and discuss how ROI quality or overlap might influence false negatives or false positives, particularly in densely labelled regions.

      We agree that ROI definition influences spectral extraction. Spectral fingerprints are derived by averaging all pixels within the ROI mask, and therefore neuropil contamination, partial ROI overlap, and dense labeling could influence beta estimates. In the revised manuscript, we have acknowledged this dependencies more explicitly.

      “Spectral unmixing operates on CNMF-derived ROI masks treated as fixed supports. Accordingly, segmentation quality, neuropil contamination, and partial overlap between neighboring cells can influence extracted spectral fingerprints and may contribute to false negatives or secondary assignments, particularly in densely labeled regions. These structured sources of uncertainty are expected to have the greatest impact under regimes of extreme class imbalance, low fluorophore brightness, strong neuropil signal, or pairing of spectrally overlapping reporters. Use of refined segmentation strategies or nuclear-localized reporters could reduce such structured uncertainty in future implementations.” (Discussion)

      (5) The manuscript reports meaningful rates of secondary fluorophore detection, but also nontrivial false-positive rates for secondary labels under realistic conditions. The authors appropriately caution against over-interpretation, but the Discussion should more clearly delineate when dual-label assignments are likely to be biologically interpretable versus methodologically ambiguous, and how experimental design (e.g., fluorophore pairing) should be optimized accordingly.

      We agree and will delineate interpretability boundaries explicitly.

      “Dual-label assignments are most reliable when fluorophores are spectrally well separated and when signal-to-noise ratios are high. In contrast, spectrally adjacent fluorophore pairs or densely labeled regimes increase ambiguity and false-positive risk. Experimental design should therefore prioritize pairing spectrally distant fluorophores when projection convergence is of primary interest.” (Discussion)

      (6) I suspect that Neuroplex will be most effective in certain regimes (moderate convergence, bright and spectrally distinct fluorophores) and less reliable in others. A more explicit discussion of best practices, anticipated failure modes, and experimental scenarios where the method may be inappropriate would increase the practical value of the paper for adopters.

      “More broadly, Neuroplex is expected to perform most robustly in regimes characterized by moderate projection convergence, balanced fluorophore representation, bright and spectrally distinct reporters, and adequate signal-to-noise ratio. Imaging directly within a projection target that has received dense retrograde labeling may introduce substantial class imbalance, which simulations predict will reduce detection sensitivity for the dominant fluorophore. In such cases, conservative assignment strategies, reduced spectral complexity, or refinement of ROI definition may improve interpretability. Careful fluorophore selection and pilot validation under intended imaging conditions are therefore recommended prior to large-scale application. Future implementations incorporating nuclear-localized reporters may further reduce segmentation-dependent ambiguity by constraining spectral signals to somatic compartments.”

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The authors should address a few points that are not clear.

      (1) At the end of the Results, the authors assess their approach using only four fluorophores and conclude that Neuroplex works "even" under reduced complexity. There is something I am missing. In my mind, lower complexity should be easier and should work better. As a researcher, I would first assess a four-fluorophores scenario and then step up with complexity, but the authors did the opposite. Also, I think that the present Supplementary Figure 9 should be in the main text; I don't understand why the authors decided to relegate a clear result to the bottom of everything. The authors should give some explanations.

      We agree that reduced spectral complexity should, in principle, improve separability and classification performance. Our original presentation order was intended to first demonstrate feasibility under the most challenging condition (nine fluorophores plus GCaMP), thereby establishing maximal multiplexing capacity. The reduced-complexity experiment was included to demonstrate scalability and generalizability under more typical experimental regimes. However, we agree that this rationale was not sufficiently clear and that the reduced-complexity results merit presentation in the main text.

      Accordingly:

      We have moved former Supplementary Figure 9 into the main Results (Fig. 6).

      We have clarified explicitly why the nine-fluorophore condition was presented first as follows:

      “To evaluate the performance of Neuroplex under more typical experimental regimes with reduced-complexity, we applied the pipeline to two GCaMP transgenic animals injected with a subset of four fluorophores.”

      (2) The question of relative expression is crucial. Among the infected regions, there is the contralateral mPFC and I imagine that if they image there, the contribution of the expressed protein might dominate all other components, preventing detection of other fluorophores, including GCaMP. But is it the case, or would it be possible to detect projecting neurons in that region? I would be surprised that the authors never tried it; this test would simply imply mounting the GRID lens on the other hemisphere.

      This is an important conceptual point.

      Our simulations (Supp. Fig. 5) explicitly model over-representation of a single fluorophore. These results show that heavy class imbalance primarily increases false negatives (due to baseline normalization) rather than false positives.

      In the revised manuiscript, we discussed this limitation more explicitly.

      “Relative fluorophore representation within the imaged field of view influences classification robustness. As demonstrated in our simulations of class imbalance (Supp. Fig. 5g–h), extreme over-representation of a single fluorophore primarily increases false-negative rates due to baseline normalization effects. In the present study, we intentionally avoided imaging directly within heavily infected projection targets (e.g., contralateral mPFC) in order to maintain moderate fluorophore representation across ROIs. Imaging in a densely labeled region would represent a more challenging regime, and we would expect reduced sensitivity for the dominant fluorophore under such conditions.” (Dicussion)

      (3) The possibility to utilise Neuroplex goes beyond the type of experiment presented as proof-of-concept in this technical paper. In the Discussion, the authors mention genetically defined subtypes and activity-tagged neurons. But, if one changes the pipeline, can it be used by expressing GECIs with different spectra, or GECIs and genetically-encoded voltage indicators (GEVIs)? I would be very interested in knowing what the authors think about this putative "shortcut".

      We thank the reviewer for this forward-looking and insightful question.

      In principle, the Neuroplex framework could be extended to incorporate spectrally distinct genetically encoded functional indicators, including multi-color GECIs or combinations of GECIs and GEVIs. However, it is important to distinguish this from the identity-assignment strategy implemented in the present study.

      Simultaneous multi-color functional imaging under a head-mounted miniscope is optically more demanding than assigning cell identity from single-color functional recordings followed by high-dimensional spectral readout. Multi-color GECI or GEVI imaging requires real-time excitation and emission separation during dynamic recording, increases optical complexity, and is particularly sensitive to chromatic aberration, photon efficiency, and signal-to-noise constraints imposed by GRIN lenses.

      In contrast, Neuroplex decouples functional acquisition from spectral identity determination. Functional activity is recorded using a single optimized channel, while spectral separation is performed separately under controlled confocal conditions with multiplexed excitation and emission sampling. This design substantially reduces optical burden during behavioral imaging.

      While integration of multiple functional reporters is conceptually feasible within this framework, successful implementation would require careful validation of brightness, spectral separability, and temporal stability for each reporter combination.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Implement a principled multi-label calling mode for cells with >1 above-threshold fluorophore (e.g., per-fluorophore FDR control or Bayesian posteriors). Report cell-wise weights and re-run key results three ways: single-label, hard multi-label, and soft (probabilistic) assignments; state explicitly how conclusions change.

      We appreciate this suggestion and agree that multi-label or probabilistic calling frameworks are well motivated, particularly for studies in which projection convergence is the central biological question. In the current manuscript, however, our goal is to establish a practically deployable proof-of-principle pipeline for linking miniscope functional recordings to a high-dimensional spectral-identity readout. Consistent with this scope, we used a conservative winner-take-all (WTA) strategy for primary analyses to prioritize specificity under realistic noise and background conditions, and we treated multi-hit events descriptively. Importantly, the qualitative conclusions regarding projection-resolved functional stratification are unchanged when secondary-hit distributions are examined.

      In the revised manuscript, we explicitly stated that: (i) single-label assignment is a conservative analysis choice rather than a biological claim of exclusivity, and (ii) multi-label or probabilistic calling is a natural extension for future work, as follows:

      “If multiple fluorophores exceeded the threshold for an ROI, the fluorophore with the largest z-scored beta value was assigned as the primary identity (winner-take-all rule). This conservative approach was chosen to prioritize specificity under realistic noise and background conditions. Additional above-threshold fluorophores were retained as ‘secondary hits’ but were not incorporated into primary subtype stratification analyses.” (Methods, Single Pass Algorithm)

      “Because the present study is designed to establish methodological feasibility rather than precise anatomical quantification, simulation-derived false-positive and false-negative regimes were not formally propagated into confidence bounds on subtype proportions or behavioral effect sizes. Accordingly, subtype fractions should be interpreted as assignment-dependent estimates rather than definitive anatomical measurements. Future implementations could incorporate Bayesian or likelihood-based classifiers to generate posterior identity probabilities and enable formal uncertainty propagation when quantitative estimation of projection convergence is central to the biological question.” (Discussion)

      (2) Add ground truth for dual projectors in a subset (paired orthogonal tracers or staged injections) and provide a confusion matrix including dual-positives; use this to calibrate thresholds/priors.

      We agree that ground truth validation of dual projectors using orthogonal tracers or staged injections would be valuable, particularly for calibrating priors and enabling confusion-matrix-based evaluation. However, these experiments require additional cohorts and experimental design beyond the scope of the current proof-of-principle technical manuscript. Our goal here is to demonstrate the feasibility of multiplexed identification and projection-resolved stratification within a single animal, not to provide definitive anatomical quantification of collateralization.

      We have revised the manuscript to clearly state that dual-label in vivo observations are descriptive and that studies aimed at quantitative convergence mapping should incorporate orthogonal ground truth validation.

      “Accurate quantification of projection convergence would benefit from orthogonal ground-truth validation (e.g., paired tracers or staged injections) to establish confusion matrices for dual positives and to calibrate thresholds or priors.”

      (3) Propagate uncertainty from simulations and registration/segmentation to subtype fractions and behavior effects (error bars or sensitivity analyses).

      We agree that formal uncertainty propagation is appropriate for studies focused on precisely quantifying subtype proportions or effect sizes. In this manuscript, subtype fractions and behavioral comparisons are presented primarily as demonstrations of the feasibility of projection-resolved functional stratification, rather than definitive anatomical measurements. Simulation analyses are included to characterize expected performance under defined noise and background regimes, but we did not propagate these uncertainties into downstream confidence bounds in this proof-of-principle work.

      We have revised the manuscript to clarify this explicitly as follows:

      “These simulation-derived accuracy estimates characterize expected performance under defined noise and background conditions but were not formally propagated into confidence bounds on subtype proportions or behavioral comparisons. In this proof-of-principle study, subtype fractions are presented as assignment-dependent estimates rather than definitive anatomical measurements.” (Results, Assessment of spectral unmixing approach)

      “These analyses were performed using conservative single-label assignments; dual-threshold ROIs were not treated as co-identities in order to avoid overinterpretation of potentially ambiguous multi-label cells. Because identity assignment prioritizes specificity and classification uncertainty was not formally propagated into downstream comparisons, subtype fractions and behavior-by-subtype differences should be interpreted as qualitative demonstrations of projection-resolved functional stratification rather than precise anatomical quantifications.” (Results, Neuronal cell types and behavior)

      “The modeling framework was designed to characterize expected classification behavior across a range of experimental regimes, including background fluorescence, class imbalance, and reduced signal-to-noise ratio. These simulations provide practical performance guidance but were not used to compute formal error bars or propagate uncertainty into downstream biological analyses.” (Methods, Modeling of experimental variables to assess accuracy of algorithms)

      “Because the present study is designed to establish methodological feasibility rather than precise anatomical quantification, simulation-derived false-positive and false-negative regimes were not formally propagated into confidence bounds on subtype proportions or behavioral effect sizes. Accordingly, subtype fractions should be interpreted as assignment-dependent estimates rather than definitive anatomical measurements. Future implementations could incorporate Bayesian or likelihood-based classifiers to generate posterior identity probabilities and enable formal uncertainty propagation when quantitative estimation of projection convergence is central to the biological question.” (Discussion)

      (4) Mitigate sources of spurious multi-hits (neuropil handling, ROI mask erosion, nuclear-localized reporters, spectral basis choices) and quantify their impact on dual-label recovery.

      We agree that neuropil contamination, ROI boundary choices, and spectral basis selection can influence multi-hit rates. In the current manuscript, we already implement background subtraction and evaluate multi-hit behavior through simulations under realistic background and noise regimes. Quantitative evaluation of additional mitigation strategies (e.g., ROI erosion comparisons) would require new analyses beyond the current scope.

      We have revised the Discussion to include concrete best-practice recommendations (e.g., fluorophore pairing, conservative interpretation of multi-hits, and potential use of nuclear-localized reporters).

      “Multi-hit events can reflect true biological collateralization but may also arise from structured sources of ambiguity such as neuropil contamination, partial ROI overlap, or imperfect ROI boundaries. These factors may bias spectral estimates and contribute to secondary assignments, particularly in densely labeled regions. Practical mitigation strategies include conservative assignment rules, improved segmentation, and use of nuclear-localized reporters to reduce neuropil contribution. ”

      (5) Clarify claims in the main text/figures wherever exclusivity is implied; label which panels use single-label vs multi-label/soft assignments.

      We agree and thank the reviewer for emphasizing clarity. We did not intend to imply projection exclusivity. We have revised the manuscript text and figure legends to explicitly state where single-label (winner-take-all) assignment is used, and to avoid language that could be read as claiming exclusive projection identity as follows:

      “For quantitative behavioral comparisons, each ROI was assigned a single primary fluorophore identity using conservative winner-take-all rule. This assignment reflects the strongest spectral contribution and does not imply projection exclusivity. Rather, it provides a conservative lower-bound estimate of subtype proportions, as ROIs exceeding threshold for multiple fluorophores were classified according to their strongest spectral contribution.”

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      eLife Assessment

      This valuable study addresses a critical and timely question regarding the role of a subpopulation of cortical interneurons (Chrna2-expressing Martinotti cells) in motor learning and cortical dynamics. However, while some of the behavior and imaging data are impressive, the small sample sizes and incomplete behavioral and activity analyses make interpretation difficult; therefore, they are insufficient to support the central conclusions. The study may be of interest to neuroscientists studying cortical neural circuits, motor learning, and motor control.

      We thank the reviewers and the editors for the insightful comments. We are pleased to report that the raised issues with the manuscript can be addressed by improving clarity in our writing of specific sections and by providing additional analysis. Specifically, it was not clear in the manuscript text that although we show illustrative data with a lower number of animals, our conclusions are supported by data with a larger and sufficient sample size. Also, the description of our control experiments has been improved to clarify our proper treatment controls. We therefore clarify below that our study presents compelling and sufficient evidence to support our conclusions. We have responded to all the comments, explaining how each concern has been addressed. All line and figure numbers mentioned here refer to the numbering of the reviewed manuscript version. All references are cited as DOIs.

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      There are many major issues with the study. The findings across experiments are inconsistent, and it is unclear how the authors performed their analyses or why specific time points and comparisons were chosen. The study requires major re-analysis and additional experiments to substantiate its conclusions.

      The main limitation of the study lies in its small sample sizes and the absence of key control experiments, which substantially weaken the strength of the conclusions.

      (1a) Behavior task - the pellet-reaching task is a well-established paradigm in the motor learning field. Why did the authors choose to quantify performance using "success pellets per minute" instead of the more conventional "success rate" (see PMID 19946267, 31901303, 34437845, 24805237)? It is also confusing that the authors describe sessions 1-5 as being performed on a spoon, while from session 6 onward, the pellets are presented on a plate. However, in lines 710-713, the authors define session 1 as "naive," session 2 as "learning," session 5 as "training," and "retraining" as a condition in which a more challenging pellet presentation was introduced. Does "naive session 1" refer to the first spoon session or to session 6 (when the food is presented on a plate)? The same ambiguity applies to "learning session 2," "training session 5," and so on. Furthermore, what criteria did the authors use to designate specific sessions as "learning" versus "training"? Are these definitions based on behavioral performance thresholds or some biological mechanisms? Clarifying these distinctions is essential for interpreting the behavioral results.

      We agree that success rate is a more conventional measure than the number of successful prehensions per minute. We have changed all behavior quantifications to success rate. Note that all behavioral conclusions drawn before are still valid under the new quantification (see Figures 1, 4, and 5). Importantly, the terms “learning,” “training,” and “retraining” were defined based on task structure and prior literature on motor learning stages rather than predetermined behavioral performance thresholds. These labels reflect progression through the task design (initial acquisition, continued practice under stable conditions, and adaptation to altered task demands), not biologically distinct or threshold-defined phases. We have revised the Methods section to make these definitions and transitions explicit to avoid ambiguity in interpreting the behavioral results.

      (1b) Judging from Figures 1F and 4B, even in WT mice, it is not convincing that the animals have actually learned the task. In all figures, the mice generally achieve 10-20 pellets per minute across sessions. The only sessions showing slightly higher performance are session 5 in Figure 1F ("train") and sessions 12 and 13 in Figure 4B ("CLZ"). In the classical pellet-reaching task, animals are typically trained for 10-12 sessions (approximately 60 trials per session, one session per day), and a clear performance improvement is observed over time. The authors should therefore present performance data for each individual session to determine whether there is any consistent improvement across days. As currently shown, performance appears largely unchanged across sessions, raising doubts about whether motor learning actually occurred.

      As described in the methods Single pellet prehension task section, in our setup box, the elevated plate slot for pellet delivery is at a challenging position, outside the slit and 2cm to the right, forcing the mice to use the left paw. Therefore, mice need to be trained in gradually harder positions, using a spoon to deliver the pellet instead of placing it directly at the plate slot. Due to the gradually increasing difficulty in the task, the success rate curve remains flat, while the total number of attempts and number of successful prehensions per minute increase (Figure 1 F-H). We therefore argue that motor learning indeed occurred, with a relatively constant success rate when performing a gradually harder task. Further, the success rate and number of successful prehensions of our mice is within levels previously reported for trained mice (10.3791/51238). We added the precise plate slot position in the methods section to make clearer the need of a gradually increasing difficulty delivery method.

      (1c) The authors also appear to neglect existing literature on the role of SST-INs in motor learning and local circuit plasticity (e.g., PMID 26098758, 36099920). Although the current study focuses on a specific subpopulation of SST-INs, the results reported here are entirely opposite to those of previous studies. The authors should, at a minimum, acknowledge these discrepancies and discuss potential reasons for the differing outcomes in the Discussion section.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing this out. It is by no means a neglect, but a careful balance discussing previous literature that can be fairly compared with our findings. It is becoming increasingly clear — with mounting evidence from modern transcriptomic and connectomic studies — that the canonical “three‑cardinal” interneuron populations (SST⁺, PV⁺, VIP⁺) represent oversimplified groupings that mask considerable heterogeneity. For example, in a comprehensive single-cell RNA‑sequencing (scRNA‑seq) study covering ~1.3 million cells from mouse cortex and hippocampus, the authors identified dozens of discrete GABAergic subtypes beyond the classical marker-defined classes, revealing continuous and graded variation in molecular identity across cortical and hippocampal regions (10.1016/j.cell.2021.04.021). Moreover, a recent study focusing on SST-expressing interneurons demonstrated that even within the SST class there are multiple subtypes with distinct laminar distributions, axonal projection patterns, and circuit connectivity — for instance, two different Martinotti subtypes vs. a non-Martinotti SST subtype targeting different pyramidal neuron types and dendritic compartments (10.1016/j.neuron.2023.05.032). Finally, developmental single‑cell transcriptomics shows that interneuron diversity is already apparent at early postmitotic stages, indicating that these subtypes are pre-specified rather than being mere activity‑dependent states (10.1038/s41467‑018‑07458‑1). These findings argue strongly that the traditional SST⁺ / PV⁺ / VIP⁺ classification, while useful as a coarse heuristic, fails to capture the rich diversity in molecular, morphological, and functional phenotypes that likely underlie distinct roles in circuit computation and behavior.

      The consequence of this is that studies using any of these three markers must be cautiously interpreted since in reality, several quite different neuronal populations are studied at once, especially if no efforts were made to tease out which of the participating populations (inside the “cardinal” population) contribute to the effects seen. Most likely, the reported results are based on a mixed population - in the worst case scenario - populations with opposite effects. In any case, we have now included the role of SST-INs in motor learning and M1 circuitry in the discussion section. We also respectfully disagree that our findings are the opposite of previous SST-IN studies. We show that increasing Ma2 excitability improved execution of an already learned movement, while 10.1038/nn.4049 showed that both activating (which is different from increasing excitability) and inhibiting SST-INs impaired the learning of a stereotyped movement. Similarly, 10.1016/j.neuron.2022.08.018 showed that increasing SST-INs excitability impairs motor learning, not execution of a previously learned movement. While we found that increasing excitability of Ma2 cells did not affect motor learning, note that the Ma2 are a subset of martinotti cells with homogeneous electrophysiological and morphological properties (10.1371/journal.pbio.2001392), and martinotti cells themselves are a subset of SST+ cells (10.1016/j.neuron.2023.05.032). The discussion has been updated to include this reasoning.

      (2a) Calcium imaging - The methodology for quantifying fluorescence changes is confusing and insufficiently described. The use of absolute dF values ("detrended by baseline subtraction," lines 565-567) for analyses that compare activity across cells and animals (e.g., Figure 1H) is highly unconventional and problematic. Calcium imaging is typically reported as dF/F0 or z-scores to account for large variations in baseline fluorescence (F0) due to differences in GCaMP expression, cell size, and imaging quality. Absolute dF values are uninterpretable without reference to baseline intensity - for example, a dF of 5 corresponds to a 100% change in a dim cell (F0 = 5) but only a 1% change in a bright cell (F0 = 500). This issue could confound all subsequent population-level analyses (e.g., mean or median activity) and across-group comparisons. Moreover, while some figures indicate that normalization was performed, the Methods section lacks any detailed description of how this normalization was implemented. The critical parameters used to define the baseline are also omitted. The authors should reprocess the imaging data using a standardized dF/F0 or z-score approach, explicitly define the baseline calculation procedure, and revise all related figures and statistical analyses accordingly.

      The calcium imaging used here is 1-photon microendoscopic video data. To our knowledge, it is not possible to extract the true cell baseline over time from 1-photon data, since the background component includes signals from multiple sources, and usually has fluctuations larger than the neural signal itself. We agree that absolute dF values cannot be compared across cells, and that is not what we report here. The CNMF-E algorithm outputs the temporal activity of each neuron with the background component already removed (10.7554/eLife.28728) and therefore the baseline subtraction used in our study is already standardized (10.7554/eLife.38173). Note that although it is common in the literature to record 1-photon data and perform similar preprocessing (some form of baseline subtraction and/or normalization by noise std), referring to the resulting trace as dF/F, that is not entirely correct, since true F0 extraction is not possible. We thus chose to refer to the resulting preprocessed traces as what they actually are - dF detrended (raw trace with estimated background components removed). However, we agree that a better description of the process would be helpful in our manuscript, and that the nomenclature might be confusing to readers. We therefore expanded the methods section to better explain that we will now refer to F0 as the background component (and refer to our resulting traces as dF/F) and explain how it was determined. We also updated the example traces in Figure 1E to now show the raw traces, the estimated background components and the detrended traces.

      (2b) Figure 1G - It is unclear why neural activity during successful trials is already lower one second before movement onset. Full traces with longer duration before and after movement onset should also be shown. Additionally, only data from "session 2 (learning)" and a single neuron are presented. The authors should present data across all sessions and multiple neurons to determine whether this observation is consistent and whether it depends on the stage of learning.

      We agree that it would be beneficial to show longer traces as an example of prehension-related activity, so we expanded Figure 1I to show a longer trace for a single neuron. We added to Supplemental Figure 2 plots showing longer traces from all sessions including all neurons for both genotypes.

      (2c) Figure 1H - The authors report that chemogenetic activation of Chrna2 cells induces differential changes in PyrN activity between successful and failed trials. However, one would expect that activating all Chrna2 cells would strongly suppress PyrN activity rather than amplifying the activity differences between trials. The authors should clarify the mechanism by which Chrna2 cell activation could exaggerate the divergence in PyrN responses between successful and failed trials. Perhaps, performing calcium imaging of Chrna2 cells themselves during successful versus failed trials would provide insight into their endogenous activity patterns and help interpret how their activation influences PyrN activity during successful and failed trials.

      The reviewer is correct to assume that increasing excitability of Ma2 cells would suppress PC activity. As shown in Supplemental Figure 2I, that is exactly what we observe when considering only non-prehension related activity. Thus, it is very interesting that the opposite effect is seen for prehension-related activity. Also, this finding perfectly aligns with our results from the assembly analysis showing that assembly activity is decreased within the prehension window compared to outside the prehension window. Unfortunately, imaging Ma2 cells would only add information to this study in understanding their influence on PCs if we image both populations simultaneously, which require equipment and reagents we do not currently have. Fortunately, however, the endogenous activity patterns of Ma2 cells and the direct connectivity between Ma2 and pyramidal cells was already previously investigated in detail (10.1371/journal.pbio.2001392), therefore we expanded the discussion to better explain that the differential changes in PC when increasing Ma2 excitability could be due to increased PC synchronization, since a single Ma2 connects to several PCs, and upon inhibition release all connected PCs fire synchronously.

      (2d) Figure 1H - Also, in general, the Cre+ (red) data points appear consistently higher in activity than the Cre- (black) points. This is counterintuitive, as activating Chrna2 cells should enhance inhibition and thereby reduce PyrN activity. The authors should clarify how Cre+ animals exhibit higher overall PyrN activity under a manipulation expected to suppress it. This discrepancy raises concerns about the interpretation of the chemogenetic activation effects and the underlying circuit logic.

      As explained above, increasing Ma2 excitability indeed decreased non-prehension related PC activity, and the proposed mechanism has been added to the discussion section. We also made

      clearer in the results section that we are referring to prehension-related PC activity, and emphasize that overall non-prehension related PC activity is decreased.

      (3) The statistical comparisons throughout the manuscript are confusing. In many cases, the authors appear to perform multiple comparisons only among the N, L, T, and R conditions within the WT group. However, the central goal of this study should be to assess differences between the WT and hM3D groups. In fact, it is unclear why the authors only provide p-values for some comparisons but not for the majority of the groups.

      We agree that a clearer description of the statistical analysis is warranted. We expanded the statistical analysis methods section to clarify, among other things, that all possible pairwise comparisons were performed and appropriately corrected for multiple comparisons, and only positive p-values are reported in the figures, therefore the absence of p-value for a comparison means that is not significant.

      (4a) Figure 4 - It is hard to understand why the authors introduce LFP experiments here, and the results are difficult to interpret in isolation. The authors should consider combining LFP recordings with calcium imaging (as in Figure 1) or, alternatively, repeating calcium imaging throughout the entire re-training period. This would provide a clearer link between circuit activity and behavior and strengthen the conclusions regarding Chrna2 cell function during re-training.

      Unfortunately, it is not possible in our setup to record calcium imaging and LFP simultaneously, since the implants needed for the miniscope occupy the entire space above the animal’s cranium. To record calcium imaging during the execution of learned movements is also impractical. If the animals were to be implanted before the training phase, the signal will likely be too degraded for recordings after the training sessions, since the miniscope signal quality decreases over time, and over successive miniscope attachments. If the animals were to be implanted between the training and retraining phase (as the LFP group), the gap between training and retraining would be even larger, at least 28 days (as opposed to 16 days for the LFP group), which would affect the performance in the task. Therefore, LFP recordings provide understanding of the higher-level changes happening in neural activity when excitation is increased in Ma2 cells during the execution of learned movements. We respectfully disagree that the results from the LFP group cannot be interpreted in isolation, since we found that mice with increased excitability of Ma2 cells display increased low theta and gamma power during the prehension movement. As discussed in the manuscript, the increased high gamma band power when Ma2 cells are overexcitable, particularly for the successful trials in the planning phase, suggest that Ma2 cells may have a role influencing theta and gamma oscillations during motor performance (lines 1348-1355).

      (4b) It is unclear why CLZ has no apparent effect in session 11, yet induces a large performance increase in sessions 12 and 13. Even then, the performance in sessions 12 and 13 (30 successful pellets) is roughly comparable to Session 5 in Figure 1F. Given this, it is questionable whether the authors can conclude that Chrna2 cell activation truly facilitates previously acquired motor skills?

      We understand that a source of confusion for the behavioral data in the LFP group was the absence of data from sessions 1-7, together with the missing explanation about the task changing from spoon to plate (as explained in answers to question 1a and 1b). Since the animals are getting pellets from the spoon in session 5 (easier) and from the plate in later sessions (harder), the fact that animals achieved the same performance in the plate as they had on the last spoon session indicates they relearned the movement. To further clarify the training development, we added the full set of sessions (1-13) to Supplemental Figure 7, indicating the spoon-to-plate switch after session 5 and the 16-days gap between sessions 7 and 8 (due to viral injection and electrodes implant surgeries).

      (5) Figure 5 - The authors report decreased performance in the pasta-handling task (presumably representing a newly learned skill) but observe no difference in the pellet-reaching task (presumably an already acquired skill). This appears to contradict the authors’ main claim that Chrna2 cell activation facilitates previously acquired motor skills.

      We respectfully disagree that the results for the pasta-handling conflict with the finding that increasing Ma2 excitability facilitates previously acquired movements. The pasta handling specifically measures forepaw dexterity (as outlined in lines 442-444), therefore assessing forelimb function unrelated to learning. Mice perform a set of stereotyped movements to manipulate the pasta, therefore no learning is required (note that animals were habituated to the arena, followed by a single test session, with no training sessions). We do specifically mention in the results section that "we used the pasta handling task to assess forepaw dexterity that does not require learning" (lines 1137-1139). Our findings support our reported conclusion that "Ma2 cells may have a role in orchestrating precise forelimb movements that do not require previous specific training" (lines 1154-1156).

      (6) Supplementary Figure 1 - The c-Fos staining appears unusually clean. Previous studies have shown that even in home-cage mice, there are substantial numbers of c-Fos+ cells in M1 under basal conditions (PMID 31901303, 31901303). Additionally, the authors should present Chrna2 cell labeling and c-Fos staining in separate channels. As currently shown, it is difficult to determine whether the c-Fos+ cells are truly Chrna2+ cells.

      Our c-Fos stain does work well after having improved this method in several of our projects. Unfortunately, we could not check the references mentioned in the comment, since it points to a study that did not mention c-Fos (maybe incorrect PMID code?). However, we found our images to have similar c-Fos levels in control as other studies (for example 10.3389/fnana.2014.00013 Figure 1A and 10.1109/TBME.2024.3401136 Supplemental Figure 2C). Thus, we do find background activity of c-Fos in both Cre+ and control mice, but the c-Fos stain appears clean because of the strong up-regulation and fluorescent signal in exogenously activated hM3Dq+ cells. Also, we noticed that the manuscript was missing a methods section for the c-Fos experiments, therefore we added a section detailing the hM3Dq activation validation (lines 487-498). Further, the figure now displays separate channels for hM3Dq + cells (magenta) and c-Fos (cyan) for better clarity.

      (7) Overall, the authors selectively report statistical comparisons only for findings that support their claims, while most other potentially informative comparisons are omitted. Complete and transparent reporting is necessary for proper interpretation of the data.

      As explained above (comment 3), we expanded the statistical description in the methods to explain that all possible pairwise comparisons were performed and appropriately corrected for multiple comparisons, and that omitted comparisons are non-significant.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Figure legends - The authors should provide more detailed information in the figure legends, such as N values. It is also not explained what the bold bars, as well as the highest and lowest bars, represent. Clear labeling is essential for proper interpretation of the data.

      We revised all figure legends to add n-numbers for all quantification plots, and expanded the Statistical analysis methods section to explain the labeling of all quantifications.

      (2) Presentation of plots - The authors need to improve the clarity and completeness of their figure presentations. For example:

      (a) In Figure 1F, it is unclear whether the results were obtained under chemogenetic activation, as this information is missing from both the figure and the legend. Currently, it could be a comparison of Cre+ mice with Cre- mice without any manipulations.

      (b) In Figure 1H, p-values are reported, but it is not specified which groups are being compared. As mentioned above, why are p-values only given to some comparisons? Does that mean the others are not significant?

      (c) In Figure 1D, a scale bar should be provided.

      (d) In Figure 1E, the y-axis (fluorescence) scale should be clearly indicated.

      We thank the reviewer’s attention to the figure details. We added the missing scale bars for Figures 1D-E. We also clarified in the results section that all miniscope recordings were performed under clozapine treatment. As answered above (comments 3 and 7), we expanded the methods section to state that although all comparisons were made and appropriately corrected for multiple comparisons, only significant comparisons were reported. As for the groups being compared, every significance bar clearly connects two groups, which are the ones being compared. We also expanded the Statistical Analysis section to state that “Significance bars without ticks represent pairwise comparisons, while significance bars with downward ticks represent an effect.”.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      The main limitation of the study lies in its small sample sizes and the absence of key control experiments, which substantially weaken the strength of the conclusions. Core findings of this paper, such as the lack of effect of Ma2 cell activation on motor learning, as well as the altered neuronal activity, rely on a sample size of n=3 mice per condition, which is likely underpowered to detect differences in behavior and contributes to the somewhat disconnected results on calcium activity, activity timing, and neuronal assembly activity.

      We understand that the source of confusion is the number of mice used for calcium imaging and the number of mice used for assessing the effect of Ma2 increased excitability in motor learning. The core finding that Ma2 increased excitability did not alter motor learning is supported by the data shown previously in Supplemental Figure 5 (now Figure 1F-H), with n=6 Cre+ and n=7 controls, which has enough statistical power to detect the effect of training session (F (3,33) = 9.254, power = 0.997) and should have enough power to detect the effect of group (estimated power of 0.835 for F(1,11)). The behavior performance of the miniscope-recorded mice was shown in the previous version for transparency, however no conclusion was drawn based on that data. To improve clarity, we now present data from the previous Supplemental Figure 5 as Figures 1F–H. This dataset clearly demonstrates that increased excitability of Ma2 cells did not affect motor learning. In addition, note that all quantification and conclusions drawn about neuronal activity are based on robust sample sizes: 1070 cells for controls and 403 for Chrna2-Cre+, or 70 assemblies for controls and 48 for Chrna2-Cre+. These sample sizes ensure sufficient statistical power, as demonstrated by the multiple significant effects and pairwise differences reported in our study. We reiterate that no underpowered tests were conducted in this study, and no conclusions were drawn on n = 3 controls and 3 Chrna2-Cre+ mice on behavioral outcomes.

      More comprehensive analyses and data presentation are also needed to substantiate the results. For example, examining calcium activity and behavioral performance on a trial-by-trial basis could clarify whether closely spaced reaching attempts influence baseline signals and skew interpretation.

      We agree and we performed a trial-by-trial analysis to verify the effect of adjacent prehensions in the trial signal. We found that only 17.7% of adjacent trials were affected by a previous trial. In addition we selected only trials not preceded by another trial for at least 6s, and evaluated whether activity immediately before the trial (-3 to -1s) is different from the activity long before the trial (-5 to -3s). The rationale is that if a trial would affect the baseline, then activity immediately before would be different from the activity long before the trial. In this analysis, we found no genotype- or session-related differences in baseline amplitude between epochs. Together these results confirm that prehension-related activity does not systematically alter non-prehension epochs. The results are shown in Supplemental Figure 3.

      The study uses cre-negative mice as controls for hM3Dq-mediated activation, which does not account for potential effects of Cre-dependent viral expression that occur only in Cre-positive mice. This important control would be necessary to substantiate the conclusion that it is increased Ma2 cell activity that drives the observed changes in behavior and cortical activity.

      Having a control group of Cre+ mice injected with cre-dependent vector control carrying, for example, only fluorescence, would add one more layer of certainty that the effects observed here are due to CLZ-induced hM3Dq activation. We do not agree, however, that it is necessary to confirm our findings. Cre-dependent expression alone was already extensively demonstrated to have no effect by comparing a DREADD activator to a vehicle treatment (for example 10.7554/eLife.38052, 10.1523/JNEUROSCI.0537-18.2018, 10.7554/eLife.67822). We also showed this for our LFP group (Figure 4), further confirming no effect of Cre-dependent hM3Dq expression alone.

      An unspecific effect of clozapine, where the treatment affects animals without the hM3Dq receptor, would be much more likely. We do control for this by giving the same treatment to Cre+ and Cre- mice. Moreover, since we use a low dose of clozapine, a lack of hM3Dq activation would be more likely, which we also controlled for with the c-Fos experiment as explained in the answer to the Minor point 1. Nevertheless, we added to the discussion that although we find it highly unlikely that the effects found here are due to Cre-dependent viral expression, we have not recorded Cre+ animals expressing control vectors instead of hM3Dq (lines 1360-1375).

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Major points

      (1) One of the main findings in this paper is that Chrna2-Cre cell activation did not affect learning of the prehension task; however, the presented data do not convincingly support this claim. Looking at Fig.1F, Cre+ mice appear to have an overall lower number of successful prehensions compared to control mice. If this is not statistically significant, it is likely because n=3 mice for each group is underpowered. To better judge the behavior of these mice, it would be necessary to plot success rate and overall number of prehensions over the entire course of training, in addition to successes per minute. Given that n=3, plotting all individual data points would make more sense than showing a violin plot. Relatedly, in Supplemental Figure 5, there appears to be a clear effect on reduced success rates in Cre+ mice, which is stated in the figure legends, whereas the result section states: we found no effect of genotype on prehension success rates (lines 895-896). The authors should ensure that these behavior experiments are sufficiently powered to detect potential differences in learning between groups and present the complete data and statistical analysis.

      As explained on Comment 1, the finding that Ma2 increased excitability did not alter motor learning is not based on the data on the previous Figure 1F (n=3 Cre+ and n=3 controls, shown for transparency). Instead, it is supported by the data in the previous Supplemental Figure 5, now Figures 1F-H, with n=6 Cre+ and n=7 controls, for which we found only overall effects of training session, but no effect of genotype, with no significant post-hoc pairwise comparisons. We agree that plotting the success rate, total number of prehensions and successful prehensions per minute, for all 6 sessions, allows better evaluation of the mice behavior. We moved the Supplemental Figure 5 into Figure 1, plotting the three measures for the full set of sessions, with individual data points within the violin plots, and expanded the statistical results description on the main text. We reiterate that no underpowered tests were conducted in this study, and no conclusions were drawn on n = 3 controls and 3 Chrna2-Cre+ mice.

      (2) The authors mention that a significant fraction of prehension trials overlapped with a preceding prehension attempt. Were those attempts excluded from the analysis? The stark differences in calcium signals at baseline before prehension onset in some sessions (Figure 1G, Supplementary Figure 2D) suggest that trials preceding closely in time might play a role and could skew the analysis and interpretation.

      Overlapping trials were not excluded from the previous analysis. As summarized in our response to Comment 2, and expanded in the results section (lines 876-894), we found that only 17.7% of adjacent trials were affected by a previous trial, and that when selecting only trials not preceded by another trial for at least 6s, we found no effect of prehension-related activity in the baseline preceding the trials.

      (3) Relatedly, to test the differences in calcium activity before and after prehension onset, it would be clearer to use a delta F/F measure where the 1 second before onset is used as baseline.

      Since a large proportion of neurons are more active before the onset (on the movement planning phase, Figure 2C), the activity 1s before the movement onset cannot be considered as F0. Dividing the activity during the movement by the activity during the planning phase would generate a different measure, a form of execution/planning ratio. We performed this analysis as an additional measure and found a three-way interaction effect of genotype, session, and prehension accuracy, driven by genotype effects on early sessions, indicating that Ma2 activity might be involved in the planning/execution activity balance. Those results are now described in the results section and shown at the Supplemental Figure 4.

      (4) For the experiments in which mice were trained prior to Ma2 cell activation (Fig.4), the behavior in sessions 8-10 does not seem to have reached a plateau yet, and the increase in successful prehensions in sessions 11-13 of Cre+ mice could just be a continuation of training. It would be more convincing to show the original training curve of those mice in sessions 1-7. Additionally, the authors should perform a two-way ANOVA test for the interaction of drug and genotype, rather than two separate one-way ANOVAs.

      We agree, and we now show the curve for sessions 1-7 in Supplemental Figure 7, showing that the success ratio for sessions 8-10 is similar to session 7. Also, a 2-way ANOVA was already performed, although the full report was missing from the manuscript. We switched from successful prehensions per minute to success ratio (see Reviewer #1 comment 1a) and now include the full report, in which we found an overall effect of session, and when grouping by genotype, we found an effect for Cre+ but not control mice (lines 1065-1072).

      Minor points

      (1) The validation experiment for the efficacy of hM3Dq is somewhat confusing. It is surprising that the few hM3Dq-mCherry expressing cells in the cre-negative mice did not show increased c-Fos staining since non-specific leaky hM3Dq expression would presumably still lead to a functional DREADD. The better control for validating the efficacy of hM3Dq-mediated Chrna2-Cre cell activation would be to show c-Fos staining in Cre+ mice with or without clozapine injection. This would control for non-specific c-Fos expression and neuronal activation purely by expression of the DREADD. In cre-negative control mice, the comparison should also be between mice with and without clozapine injection to control for non-specific neuronal activation regardless of hM3Dq expression.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this point and agree that validation of hM3Dq efficacy and specificity requires careful interpretation. In principle, any hM3Dq-expressing cell, including the few hM3Dq-mCherry+ cells observed in Cre– mice, could respond to clozapine. However, in practice, effective DREADD activation depends on sufficient receptor expression levels and on the pharmacodynamics of clozapine in the brain (Gomez et al., 2017, Science, 10.1126/science.aan2475). In our dataset, even in Chrna2-Cre+ mice, only ~76% of hM3Dq+ cells showed c-Fos induction after clozapine, indicating that receptor expression and/or ligand access is not uniform across cells. Consistent with this, the very sparse and weak hM3Dq expression observed in Cre- mice resulted in only 0.8% of hM3Dq+ cells showing c-Fos induction, which is in line with previous reports demonstrating that low-level “leaky” expression is insufficient to drive neuronal activation (e.g. 10.1038/s41467-019-12236-z; 10.1523/JNEUROSCI.0537-18.2018; 10.1523/ENEURO.0363-21.2021).

      The reviewer also suggests that an ideal validation would compare Cre+ mice with and without clozapine to control for any c-Fos induction driven purely by DREADD expression. We agree that such a comparison is informative, and note that in our experiments the c-Fos assay was designed specifically to test whether the low clozapine dose used (0.01 mg/kg) is sufficient to activate hM3Dq in Ma2 cells, rather than to assay baseline effects of viral expression.

      Importantly, non-specific effects of clozapine itself were controlled for throughout the study by administering the same clozapine dose to both Chrna2-Cre+ and Cre– mice in all behavioral and physiological experiments. Thus, any clozapine-driven neuronal activation independent of hM3Dq would be expected to appear in both groups.

      Together, these results indicate that (i) the clozapine dose used is sufficient to robustly activate hM3Dq-expressing Ma2 cells, (ii) sparse leaky expression in Cre– mice is not sufficient to drive measurable activation, and (iii) the effects reported in the manuscript are unlikely to be explained by non-specific clozapine actions or by viral expression alone.

      (2) The authors state in the methods section that "only neurons that displayed a significant change comparing the before onset and after onset phases" were included in the analysis. This appears to bias the data towards neurons that change their activity with the prehension movement. If this is the intention, the authors should clearly state this and their rationale in the results section and show what proportion of recorded neurons fall into this category.

      Yes, thanks for pointing this out, the explanation for this exclusion criteria is missing. We expanded the methods section “Neural activity around prehensions” to explain that since we are evaluating the role of Ma2 cells in the prehension-related activity of pyramidal cells, we excluded neurons with no prehension-related activity. We also stated in the expanded text that 15.97% of recorded neurons were excluded due to no prehension-related activity.

      (3) I don’t understand the peak PC activity latency shown in Figure 2D. How is it possible that there are negative peak latencies during the prehension phase, which is defined as >0sec, (upper right panel), and positive peak latencies in the before prehension phase, which is defined as <0sec, (lower right panel)?

      As stated in lines 939-941 and in the figure 2C legend, neurons were sorted into "before prehension" or "during prehension" neurons according to their activity during the successful prehension. One of our main findings is that the pyramidal cells temporal patterns were strongly affected by prehension accuracy (lines 941-944) meaning that a significant number of neurons shifted prehension phases when performing a failed prehension (as illustrated in Figure 2C, note how the temporal pattern is not kept from successful to failed prehensions). That is why, for failed prehensions, there are negative latencies for neurons that were classified as "during prehension" and positive latencies for neurons classified as "before prehension" in successful trials. We expanded the sorting explanation in the results section (lines 944-950) to better highlight the latency change between different prehension accuracies.

      (4) Please specify how baseline subtraction (detrending) was performed for the calcium image analysis.

      We expanded the methods section “Neural signal extraction” to better explain that we will now refer to F0 as the background component (and refer to our resulting traces as dF/F) and explain how it was determined (lines 614-619).

      (5) The authors state that they found a "dissociation between changes in neural activity and performance outcomes". Since they only analyzed motor performance by quantifying successful prehensions, this statement should be caveated with the notion that other aspects of the behavior (e.g., trajectories/speed) could be affected but were not measured.

      We agree, and expanded the discussion section to acknowledge that we focussed the behavioral aspects to success ratio, and that other measures not investigated could also be affected (lines ????-????).

      (6) Are the differences in theta and gamma power specific to the prehension trials, or does Ma2 cell activation generally increase LFP activity in those bands?

      We thank the reviewer for the question, as we had not analyzed general LFP activity in the previous version. We performed the same analysis now including only LFP from epochs outside prehension windows across the full sessions. We found that Mα2 cell activation actually reduces LFP power across all bands specifically in Session 13 when no prehension is being performed. These findings are now included as Supplemental Figure 7.

      (7) Please define terms that might not be familiar to a typical reader in the field, such as "assemblies", when first introducing them in the text.

      We revised the introduction where we now define assemblies (lines 85-88).

      (8) Please specify the n-numbers for each figure throughout the manuscript. For example, in some figures, the number of trials or the number of neurons is used; however, it is not clear what this number is.

      We agree that although the n-numbers are stated in the text, it would be clearer to add them also to the figure legends. All figure legends now contain n-numbers for panels showing quantifications.

      (9) Relatedly, while the inclusion of supplemental tables with expanded statistical results is commendable, several statistical test details are missing, such as for Figure 5.

      We have fully revised the text to add any missing statistical details for the statements in the Supplemental Tables.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Nio and colleagues address an important question about how the cerebellum and ventral tegmental area (VTA) contribute to the extinction learning of conditioned fear associations. This work tackles a critical gap in the existing literature and provides new insights into this question in humans through the use of high-field neuroimaging with robust methodology. The presented results are novel and will broadly interest both the extinction learning and cerebellar research communities. As such, this is a very timely and impactful manuscript. However, there are several points that could be addressed during the review process to strengthen the claims and enhance their value for readers and the broader scientific community.

      (1) Reward Interpretation and Skin Conductance Responses (SCR)

      A central premise of the manuscript is that 'unexpected omissions of expected aversive events' are rewarding, which plays a critical role in extinction learning. The authors also suggest that the cerebellum is involved in reward processing. However, it is unclear how this conclusion can be directly drawn from their task, which does not explicitly model 'reward.' Instead, the interpretation relies on SCR, which seems more indicative of association or prediction rather than reward per se. Is SCR a valid metric of reward experienced during the extinction of feared associations? Or could these findings reflect processes tied more closely to predictive learning? Please, discuss.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. We agree that skin conductance responses (SCRs) do not directly index reward. More generally, SCRs reflect autonomic arousal in response to salient or motivationally significant stimuli and are closely linked to expectancy and contingency awareness. In our study, SCRs served as a read-out of the participants’ expectation of a US, and were used to fit the hyperparameters of a reinforcement-learning-based deep learning model, which then provided per-trial estimates of prediction and prediction error values. These estimates capture predictive learning about the occurrence of the aversive US, rather than reward per se. The interpretation of unexpected US omissions as “reward-like” prediction errors relies on prior literature, particularly rodent studies showing that dopaminergic neurons in the VTA respond to omitted aversive stimuli and drive extinction learning via projections to the nucleus accumbens (Kalisch et al., 2019; Salinas-Hernández et al., 2018, 2023). We therefore interpret our cerebellar activations during unexpected omissions as being compatible with the processing of reward-like prediction errors, while acknowledging that this inference is indirect.

      To clarify this reasoning, we made revisions to the Introduction and Discussion to (i) state explicitly that SCRs do not directly measure reward but were incorporated into the reinforcement learning model as an index of autonomic arousal related to US expectancy and predictive learning, and (ii) consistently replace the term “reward prediction error” with “reward-like prediction error” throughout.

      (2) Reinforcement Agent and SCR Modeling

      The modeling approach with the deep reinforcement agent treats SCR as a personalized expectation of shock for a given trial. However, this interpretation seems misaligned with participants' actual experience - they are aware of the shock but exhibit evolving responses to it over time. Why is this operationalization useful or valid? It would benefit the manuscript to provide a clearer justification for this approach.

      This point is well taken. We did not collect trial-by-trial expectancy ratings, as frequent button-box responses would have induced cerebellar activations unrelated to fear (extinction) learning. Subjective expectancy was assessed only at the end of each experimental phase. As frequently done in the human fear conditioning literature, we used trial-by-trial SCR data (Lonsdorf et al., 2017). Although SCRs show correspondence with US expectancy ratings, they are inherently noisy and show substantial variability across trials and participants (Constantinou et al., 2021). Therefore, individual trial-by-trial responses cannot be used to directly infer US predictions. Accordingly, we used group-averaged SCR data to fit model hyperparameters in a grid search across parameter settings. The best-fitting hyperparameters were then applied to 100 randomly initialized agents, and their outputs were averaged to generate trial-wise estimates of predictions and prediction errors. These averaged values were used as parametric modulators in the fMRI analyses. We have revised the Introduction and Methods to make this procedure clearer.

      (3) Clarity and Visualization of Results

      The results section is challenging to follow, and the visualization and quantification of findings could be significantly improved. Terms like 'trending' appear frequently - what does this mean, and is it worth reporting? Adding clear statistical quantifications alongside additional visualizations (e.g., bar or violin plots of group means within specific subregions within the cerebellum, or grouped mean activity in VTA and DCN) would enhance clarity and allow readers to better assess the distribution and systematicity of effects. Furthermore, the figures are overly complex and difficult to read due to the heavy use of abbreviations. Consider splitting figures by either phase of the experiment or regions, and move some details to the supplemental material for improved readability.

      We agree with the reviewer that the clarity of results can be improved and have revised the manuscript accordingly. Specifically:

      (1) We use “trend-level” to refer to uncorrected voxelwise t-maps at p < 0.05, and “significant” to refer to TFCE/FWE-corrected effects at p < 0.05. This distinction was not sufficiently clear in the original figures. To address this, uncorrected t-maps are now displayed with a grey striped background frame, and colorbar labels have been enlarged to emphasize whether TFCE/FWE-corrected or uncorrected t-values are shown.

      (2) We added a supplementary table (Table S7) reporting group-level summary statistics for all fMRI contrasts presented in the manuscript, including group means, standard deviations, effect sizes (Cohen’s d), and 95% confidence intervals for cerebellar cortex, cerebellar nuclei, and VTA VOIs. We hope that this helps with the interpretation of effect magnitude and variability across fMRI analyses.

      (3) To improve readability, we split overly complex figures: Figure 2 now separates CS-related prediction from US-related presentation contrasts (which are now revised Figures 4 and 5), and Figure 3 separates event-based and parametric modulation contrasts (which are now revised Figures 6 and 7).

      (4) We also reduced abbreviations in the figures, and provide full definitions and explanations also including the original abbreviations in the main text and figure captions for clarity.

      We considered the suggestion to split figures further by region or by phase. However, we believe it is more informative to present the cerebellar cortex, nuclei, and VTA together for each contrast, and to keep all phases side by side, as this allows readers to directly assess commonalities across phases. We therefore chose to keep the same overall structure, but simplified the figures in other ways (e.g. splitting by contrast type) to improve overall readability. We hope that these changes address the reviewer’s concerns by simplifying the presentation, removing abbreviations, and providing clearer quantification of results.

      (4) Theoretical Context for Paradigm Phases

      The manuscript benefits from the comprehensive experimental paradigm, which includes multiple phases (acquisition, extinction, recall, reacquisition, re-extinction). This design has great potential for providing a more holistic view of conditioned fear learning and extinction. However, the manuscript lacks clarity on what insights can be drawn from these distinct phases. What theoretical framework underpins the different stages, and how should the results be interpreted in this context? At present, the findings seem like a display of similar patterns across phases without sufficient interpretation. Providing a stronger theoretical rationale and reorganizing the results by experimental phase could significantly improve readability and impact.

      We thank the reviewer for this constructive suggestion. We would first like to mention that the primary aim of this manuscript is not to analyze differences between phases, but rather to highlight the commonalities. Across different learning contexts, we consistently observed reward-like prediction error-related activations in the cerebellum and VTA. This consistency and connectivity between the cerebellum and VTA, despite phase-to-phase differences, is the most important finding of our study.

      We agree, however, that the manuscript did not sufficiently explain how each phase differs conceptually, which is important for readers to understand why the consistency of responses is notable. We therefore expanded the Introduction and Discussion to provide clearer theoretical context for each phase. More specifically, the phases can be understood as follows:

      Extinction (day 2): Because acquisition was conducted with a 100% reinforcement rate, unexpected US omissions during initial extinction trials maximize reward-like prediction errors and yield stronger, more uniform expectations across participants compared to a partial reinforcement rate. This phase should therefore provide the clearest opportunity to observe cerebellar-VTA contributions to the processing of reward-like prediction errors.

      Recall (day 3): Despite allowing for the consolidation of extinction learning, the recall test often still elicits conditioned fear responses to the CS+, that is, shows spontaneous recovery of the initial fear association (Bouton, 2002). In these trials, the non-occurrence of the US is unexpected. In this context, US omission-related activations reflect reward-like prediction errors during renewed fear responding in the presence of both a fear memory and an extinction memory. This contrasts with extinction training on day 2, where prediction errors arose primarily against the background of the recently acquired fear memory, without a competing extinction memory.

      Reacquisition (day 3): Unlike acquisition, reacquisition used a partial reinforcement rate, such that non-reinforced CS+ trials were interspersed between reinforced CS+ trials (similar to the partially reinforced phase used by Ernst et al., 2019). Because reacquisition occurs in the presence of savings, that is, the presence of a previously acquired fear memory, US expectancy increases rapidly following reinforced trials and relearning occurs faster (Bouton, 2004). Importantly, partial reinforcement maintains high US expectancy and therefore allows prediction errors to remain sustained across omission trials (Figure 9).

      Reextinction (day 3): Reextinction is an additional extinction phase but without a consolidation interval, and with an already established fear extinction memory. Because reextinction followed the partially reinforced reacquisition phase, prediction errors during early reextinction decayed more slowly than during extinction on day 2 (following the fully reinforced acquisition phase on day 1) (Figure 9). Together, reacquisition and reextinction were designed to maximize the number and persistence of unexpected US omissions, thereby providing additional opportunities to examine reward-like prediction-error signaling.

      By clarifying this framework, we aim to show that while the learning context and history differ across phases, the consistent cerebellum-VTA activation and connectivity related to unexpected US omissions underlines the robustness of the effect. We chose not to reorganize the Results by phase, as our central conclusion rests on similarities rather than differences. Instead, we have clarified the theoretical background in the revised manuscript to help readers interpret both the commonalities and the potential sources of variability.

      (5) Cerebellum-VTA Connectivity Analysis

      The authors argue that the cerebellum modulates VTA activity, yet they perform the PPI analysis in the reverse direction. Why does this make sense? In their DCM analysis, they found a bidirectional relationship (both cerebellum - VTA and VTA-cerebellum), yet the discussion focused on connectivity from the cerebellum to VTA. A more careful interpretation of the connectivity findings would be useful - especially the strong claims in the discussion on the cerebellum providing the reward signal to the VTA should be tempered.

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting this issue. In our primary analysis, we used the VTA as the PPI seed and observed trend-level connectivity with the cerebellum. When we reversed the analysis and used the cerebellar volume of interest (VOI) from the conjunction analysis as the seed, effects in the VTA were substantially weaker. We believe this reflects the broad connectivity profile of the cerebellar VOI (i.e., not specific to the VTA) as well as general limitations of PPI in our study, including the small number of unexpected omission trials and the lack of specificity to reward-like prediction errors (e.g., connectivity also appeared during US presentation). For transparency, we now report the cerebellar-seed PPI results in the Supplementary information (Figure S3). Given their limited robustness, we chose not to include the corresponding VTA maps in the main figures.

      Finally, we agree that our conclusions regarding cerebellum-VTA interactions should be framed more cautiously. While the DCM analyses support bidirectional connectivity, our original discussion placed disproportionate emphasis on cerebellum-to-VTA influences. We have revised the text to provide a more balanced interpretation that also considers VTA-to-cerebellum connectivity.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary

      Building upon the group's previous work, this study used a 3-day threat acquisition, extinction, recall, reextinction, and reacquisition paradigm with 7T imaging to probe the mechanism by which the cerebellum contributes to fear extinction learning. The authors hypothesize this may be via its connection to the VTA, a known modulator of fear extinction due to its role in reward processing. Using complementary analysis methods, the authors demonstrate that activity with the cerebellum, DNC, and VTA is modulated by predictions about the occurrence of the US, which shows regional specificity. They show trend-level evidence that there is increased functional connectivity between the cerebellum and VTA during all phases of the paradigm with unexpected omissions. They also present a DCM which indicates that the cerebellum could positively modulate VTA activity during extinction learning. This study adds to a growing literature supporting the role of the historically overlooked cerebellum in the control of emotions and suggests that an interaction between the cerebellum and VTA should be considered in the existing model of the fear extinction network.

      Strengths

      The authors address their research question using a number of complementary methods, including parametric modulation by model-derived expectation parameters, PPI, and DCM, in a logical and easily understood way. I feel the authors provide a balanced interpretation of their findings, presenting numerous interpretations and offering insight with regard to reward vs attention or unsigned prediction errors and the directionality of the interaction they identify. The manuscript is a timely addition to growing literature highlighting the role of the cerebellum in fear conditioning, and emotion generation and regulation more generally.

      Weaknesses

      Subjective and skin conductance responses do not completely support the success of the learning paradigm. For example, CS+/CS- differentiation in both domains persisted after extinction training. I do not feel that this negates the findings of this manuscript, though it raises questions about the parametric modulators used, and the interpretation of the neural mechanisms proposed if they do not strongly relate to updated subjective appraisals (the goal of extinction therapy). My interpretation of the manuscript suggests there are some key results based upon contrasts that have as few as three events; I am a little unsure about the power and reliability of these effects, though I await author clarification on this matter. There are a number of unaddressed deviations from the pre-registered protocol that I have asked the authors to elaborate upon.

      We thank the reviewer for the thoughtful and constructive evaluation of our work. We appreciate that the manuscript and methods were found to be clearly presented, and we welcome the suggestions for clarification and improvement. Below we address the specific concerns regarding extinction learning in behavioral measures, the reliability of event-based contrasts with few trials, and deviations from the preregistration.

      Extinction in self-reports and skin conductance responses (SCRs)

      The reviewer is correct that CS+/CS- differentiation persisted after extinction. Although there was no differentiation in SCRs at the end of extinction, post-extinction self-reports continued to do so, albeit to a lesser degree, which is in line with previous literature on dissociation of outcome measures during fear conditioning (Lipp et al., 2003). This residual subjective differentiation is also consistent with extinction forming an inhibitory memory trace that suppresses, rather than erases, the original fear association (Bouton, 2002; Milad & Quirk, 2012), and a single extinction session is often insufficient to eliminate differential responding (Craske et al., 2014; Vervliet et al., 2013). However, both measures showed significant effects of extinction learning.

      We included additional analyses of self-reports across phases. Importantly, CS+ ratings were significantly reduced during extinction and recall compared to acquisition (all p ≤ 0.001), whereas CS- ratings remained unchanged (all p > 0.532). This pattern demonstrates that the magnitude of the CS+/CS- difference was significantly reduced relative to acquisition, indicating that extinction learning did occur (Doubliez et al., 2025).

      For physiological responses, extinction learning was shown in PSRs but not conclusively in SCRs. PSRs showed a significant reduction of CS+ responses across extinction, while CS- responses remained unchanged. SCRs showed a reduction of CS+/CS- differentiation across extinction; however, this effect remained at trend level, as the Stimulus x Time interaction did not reach significance (p = 0.053). This pattern is consistent with early differentiation followed by rapid attenuation under the full reinforcement structure of the paradigm (100% reinforcement during acquisition and 0% during extinction). Under such conditions, participants rapidly learn that the US is no longer delivered during extinction, such that physiological responses are largely confined to the first few trials, leaving limited power to detect extinction effects in noisier measures such as SCRs. To address the lower robustness of SCR effects, as recommended by the reviewer, we therefore included PSRs in the main Results section, which provide converging physiological evidence for extinction learning.

      Of note, on day 3, both physiological measures and self-reports again showed CS+/CS- differentiation, consistent with spontaneous recovery, a well-established phenomenon reflecting the persistence of the original fear trace after consolidation (Bouton, 2002; Vervliet et al., 2013).

      Taken together, these findings demonstrate that the paradigm successfully induced both acquisition and extinction of conditioned fear, even though residual fear responses persisted.

      Reliability of event-based contrasts with three trials

      The initial decision to use three events for event-based contrasts was based on SCR and PSR data, which showed that differentiation between CS+ and CS- occurred almost exclusively in the first few trials of extinction and recall. Consistent with the full reinforcement described above, prediction errors were expected to be high in the very first extinction trials, and to decay rapidly. Thus, the usual half-block division (e.g., first eight trials) would have included many trials without meaningful prediction errors.

      We acknowledge that contrasts based on three trials provide limited statistical power. To address this concern, we added a supplementary table showing summary statistics for contrast estimates in the cerebellar cortex, cerebellar nuclei, and VTA VOIs across all fMRI analyses (Table S7), including both the event-based and parametric modulation approaches. Importantly, the event-based contrasts showed moderate to strong effects despite being restricted to the first three unexpected omission trials. Moreover, the parametric modulation analyses, which incorporate all available trials, yielded results that were consistent with the three-trial event-based contrasts and with the patterns shown in the main figures. This convergence between event-based and parametric approaches strengthens our confidence that the observed effects are reliable.

      Deviations from preregistration

      We acknowledge that deviations from the preregistered protocol were not fully documented and have now added this information. The main deviation concerned our event-based analyses: while the preregistration planned early vs. late block comparisons, in practice the rapid decay of SCRs under our 100% and 0% reinforcement rates rendered later trials uninformative for prediction error analyses. We therefore focused on the first three trials, when prediction errors are expected to be present. These behavioral findings are also consistent with Doubliez et al. (2025), who used the same paradigm and observed similar rapid SCR decay. Other deviations, such as not reporting exploratory whole-brain DCM analyses, are now clearly stated for transparency.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Minor Point - Paradigm Details

      Providing additional details about the experimental paradigm in the main text (e.g., the nature of the visual stimuli associated with shocks) would enhance the manuscript's clarity. Some of the information currently in supplementary Figure 5 could be incorporated into the main text to enhance the understanding of the paradigm

      We agree that the current structure reduces clarity, as the paradigm is only explained in detail after the results. To improve readability, we have moved parts of Figure 5 (illustrating the paradigm and scanner setup) to the beginning of the manuscript (now revised Figure 1). In addition, information from Figure 5, including details of the visual stimuli, is now added to the Introduction.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Methods

      Can the authors please clarify what part of the task went into [US post CS+ > no US post CS-] contrast? Is this the time immediately after the CS presentations, when the US has just occurred/not occurred, or rather more like the CS+>CS- contrast except including trials confounded by the US (i.e. [CS+/US > CS -])?

      The contrasts are based on an event-related separation of CS and US. The CS was presented for 6 seconds, with its onset modeled in the GLM as a zero-duration event (delta function). The CS offset coincided with either the delivery or omission of the US, which was likewise modeled as a zero-duration event. Thus, CS onset and offset were modeled separately. The no-US events were further distinguished by whether they followed a CS+ or a CS-. Accordingly, we analyzed both CS and US-related contrasts; for example, the CS+ > CS- contrast reflects CS-related differentiation at CS onset (0 s), whereas [US post CS+ > no US post CS-] reflects (no-)US-related activity at CS offset (6 s; US delivered from 5.9-6.0 s). We have added further clarification to the Methods section.

      I was a bit unclear on what this sentence of the methods meant "Notably, all single trials comprised CS+ trials, with CS- trials also being modeled as single trials to facilitate paired analysis", does this mean that some contrasts had 6 events in total - e.g. the first 3 unexpected omissions vs 3 x CS-. If so, which CS- were selected for the comparison?

      We agree that this sentence was unclear and have revised it. Our intention was to describe that when CS+ trials were modeled as single trials in the GLM (e.g., each CS+ onset and its associated [no-]US event modeled as separate regressors), the CS- trials were modeled in the same way. This ensured that paired analyses would be possible if required.

      For reacquisition and reextinction, single-trial modeling was necessary, as the last unexpected omission of reacquisition is also the first unexpected omission of reextinction. Modeling trials separately allows us to examine the first three unexpected US omissions in each phase independently.

      The event-based contrasts for unexpected US omissions were defined in line with a previous study of our group. For example, during extinction we contrasted the first three unexpected US omissions following CS+ with all expected omissions following CS- (i.e. [first 3 no US post CS+ > no US post CS-], corresponding to 3 vs. 16 events). The weights of events were automatically scaled by SPM12 so that both sides of the contrast carried equal total weight (e.g. positive events weighted 1/3, negative events weighted -1/16). This procedure matches the approach in Ernst et al. (2019), where in partially reinforced acquisition 6 unexpected omissions after CS+ were contrasted with 16 expected omissions after CS-.

      More generally, can the authors please comment on the power and reliability of analyses that include only 3 events in a condition [e.g. the first 3 unexpected omissions]?

      It is not clear if the (US post CS+ > no US post CS-) phases were included. In your pre-registration you say "we will use a "no US post CS+ > no US post CS-" fMRI contrast, where "no US post CS+" designates unexpected omission events in early extinction, early recall (depending on behavioral data which might indicate a return of fear) and a volatile phase (where unexpected omissions occur in the first part of the volatile phase, i.e. reacquisition).", but my reading of the manuscript was that it included both early and late "see 1st level analysis = US post CS+, no US post CS+, no US post CS- separately for each phase; 2nd level = contrast included unexpected omission of the US (no US post CS+ > no US post CS-)". Please clarify and if necessary explain the deviation from preregistration.

      We agree that this point requires clarification. In the preregistration, we planned to divide phases into early and late blocks (no US post CS+ > no US post CS-). However, as already outlined in our response (Reviewer 2, public review response: Reliability of event-based contrasts with three trials), both our preliminary behavioral data and subsequent modeling analyses indicated that differentiation between CS+ and CS- declined extremely rapidly under the 100% reinforcement schedule, leaving likely little or no prediction error beyond the first few trials. Based on this, we adapted the event-based analyses to focus on the first three unexpected omission trials in extinction, recall, and reextinction, where prediction errors are expected to be present. In reacquisition, only three omission events occur by design (83% reinforcement), so this naturally constrained the analysis to three trials. We now explicitly describe this deviation from the preregistration in the revised manuscript.

      As outlined in the same response, we recognize that contrasts based on three trials provide limited statistical power, and addressed this point by providing additional summary VOI statistics of contrast estimates for both event-based and parametric modulation contrasts, which show moderate-to-strong effect sizes and convergence across methods, which we argue supports that using the first three trials is a reliable approach (Reviewer 1, public review response, point (3) Clarity and Visualization of Results).

      Finally, with regard to the reviewer’s specific question: yes, US post CS+ > no US post CS- contrasts were examined for acquisition training, primarily to demonstrate US-related activation (see revised Figure 3).

      Results

      Page 5 + 6: Including the interaction effects for pupil size responses during extinction and reextinction in the SCR section seems unjustified. I appreciate that the SCR data does not significantly support the key claim that extinction learning towards the CS+ occurred, but I do not feel it is acceptable to draw from the other measure for this effect alone. If the PSR measure is of primary/significant importance to support the validity of your paradigm, please consider adding all of these results to the main manuscript.

      We agree with this point and have moved the PSR analysis to the main manuscript. In addition, the SCR Results section no longer includes the PSR analyses, and clearly states the absence of a significant Stimulus x Time interaction effect in extinction (p = 0.053). For completeness, we additionally report trend-level post hoc tests showing CS+/CS- differentiation during early extinction but not during late extinction, consistent with an initial differentiation that attenuates across extinction training.

      Subjective and (some) skin conductance responses do not completely support the success of the learning paradigm. For example, CS+/CS- differentiation in both subjective domains and SCRs persisted after extinction training. Can the authors comment on how this might influence the interpretation of their results more generally? What does it mean if these expectations do not appropriately translate to updated subjective appraisals in your participants, contrary to the model from which the parametric modulators were derived would predict?

      The persistence of CS+/CS- differentiation in self-reports after extinction, and the return of CS+/CS- differentiation in both self-reports and physiological measures during the recall test, is not unexpected. For self-reports administered after extinction, such persistent CS+/CS- differences are commonly observed in the human fear extinction literature (Hermans et al., 2006; see also Lipp et al., 2003), and may reflect that initial extinction learning establishes a new inhibitory association that suppresses, but does not erase, the original fear memory (Bouton, 2002). At recall on day 3, the remaining differentiation in both self-reports and physiological responses is consistent with spontaneous recovery, a well-documented phenomenon in extinction research (Bouton, 2002). As noted earlier (Reviewer 2, public review response: Extinction in self-reports and skin conductance responses (SCRs)), additional analyses showed that ratings were significantly reduced after extinction and recall compared to acquisition. Thus, while residual differentiation in self-reports remained after extinction and recall, its magnitude was diminished, indicating that extinction learning occurred but was incomplete. This pattern is consistent with partial updating of subjective appraisals in accordance with the reinforcement-learning model used to derive the parametric modulators, rather than a failure of updating.

      Figures

      Figure 1: Please ensure that the summary of your results in the figure legend is consistent with the quantitative results reported. Example 1: "On day 2, there was a loss of differentiation during extinction training.", however, a significant effect of the stimulus, and time remained (but no interaction). Please tone down this interpretation, or make it clearer how the difference in the initial extinction trials was quantified. If the ANOVA-type analysis was only performed in the first half, this was not clear. Example 2: "During initial reacquisition, there were again differential responses to the CS+ and CS-, which decreased in reextinction and the unexpected US phase". I appreciate that you refer to the difference decreasing, rather than disappearing altogether, but the magnitude of this difference is not reported in the manuscript, and there does remain a significant difference in the amplitude.

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful feedback. We have revised the figure legends to tone down overly strong statements and ensure that all descriptions are in correspondence with the quantitative results. For clarity, we have also added significance markers for (trend-level) post hoc comparisons (CS+/CS- differentiation within early and late blocks for each phase) to revised Figures 2 and 3 displaying SCRs and PSRs.

      Figure 2, 3, 4: I found it quite confusing to have uncorrected and corrected results displayed in the same way in the same figure. E.g. Figure 2A which, as far as I can tell shows trend-level results for the cerebellum, and corrected results for the VTA. For Figures 2 and 3 it was also not immediately clear which colour bar related to which map. Figure 4A appeared to be missing colour bars. I suggest the authors consider (as much as possible) standardising the colour bar scales, such that the maps across figures/sub-plots are more directly comparable, and differentiate more clearly between corrected and uncorrected results. The 3D renders in Figures 2 and 3 are a little hard to see - would it be possible to make it not so transparent?

      We use “trend-level” to refer to uncorrected voxelwise t-maps at p < 0.05, and “significant” to refer to TFCE/FWE-corrected effects at p < 0.05. This distinction was not sufficiently clear in the original figures. In the revised figures, uncorrected t-maps are displayed with a grey striped background frame. Colorbar scales were not standardized, as different panels display different statistical quantities (TFCE values versus t-values), and scaling was chosen to visualize variation within each contrast rather than enforce comparability across panels, which would have reduced interpretability. In addition, the missing colorbar in Figure 8A (formerly Figure 4A) has now been added; it matches the colorbar shown in Figure 8B. See also Reviewer 1, public review response, point (3) Clarity and Visualization of Results.

      Is it possible to annotate significant effects on Figure 1 and Supplement Figure 1? The use of square markers makes it quite hard to tell the value of each point, which, given the small scale of the y-axis is quite important for interpretation. Could the authors consider remaking these plots with smaller dots?

      We have added post hoc significance markers to Figures 2 and 3 displaying SCRs and PSRs to facilitate interpretation. These markers reflect post hoc comparisons of CS+/CS- differentiation within early and late blocks. In cases where the Stimulus x Time interaction was not significant, the corresponding post hoc markers are still shown but are indicated in red to denote their trend-level status. In addition, the plots have been remade with smaller dots to make individual values clearer.

      Discussion

      The authors state "Because aversive stimulus presentation results in pronounced cerebellar activations, we were unable to separate cerebellar activation related to the unexpected (initial acquisition trials) and the expected (late acquisition trials) presentation of the US." Could the authors compare between early[CS+>CS-] and late[CS+>CS-] acquisition (which I believe were created in the event-based analysis but results not reported), or between the first 3[CS+ with US>CS-] and later [CS+ with US>CS-] to assess this?

      In our terminology, the suggested comparisons (early vs. late [CS+ > CS-] or first three vs. last three [CS+ > CS-]) reflect changes in US prediction rather than prediction error. The statement in the Discussion refers specifically to cerebellar activation during US presentation, where distinguishing between expected and unexpected presentations is complicated by the strong cerebellar activation elicited by the electrical US itself. Moreover, when comparing early “unexpected” US presentations with later “expected” ones, the relatively higher activity in early trials could reflect habituation of the US sensation (i.e., non-associative learning) rather than a prediction error, making interpretation difficult.

      Because the current manuscript focuses on reward-like prediction errors, we did not report these US prediction or presentation contrasts in detail. In brief, the suggested comparisons of early versus late CS-related differentiation (CS+ > CS-), revealed only limited trend-level activity. In contrast, US-related responses during acquisition showed robust activations in the cerebellar cortex, DCN, and VTA across the acquisition phase. Comparisons between the first three US presentations and later US presentations showed broadly distributed and stronger responses during early acquisition than during later US presentations. This pattern seems to be more consistent with non-associative effects, such as sensory habituation to the electrical stimulation, rather than with prediction-error–related processing. We have therefore not included them in the manuscript, but would be open to providing them in the Supplementary Information if the editor or reviewers consider them essential.

      General

      In your pre-registered analysis plan you state "we will explore the use of DCM in a larger network that encompasses known constituents of the fear extinction network, in addition to the cerebellum and VTA.". You have plenty of results to discuss in the current manuscript and adding this may complicate the narrative, but that being said, please either perform and include this analysis as you proposed or explicitly mention why this was not completed. You could also consider adding a whole-brain activation map for the key phases of the experiment. Please also double-check other pre-registered points, for example - the sample size justification is also different.

      We decided not to include whole-brain DCM analyses in this manuscript and not to report whole-brain activation results extensively, as the study was primarily hypothesis-driven with a focus on cerebellum-VTA interactions. While we recognize that whole-brain analyses are of interest and plan to explore them in future work, they were considered outside the scope of the current paper. This deviation from the preregistration is now explicitly noted in the revised manuscript.

      Regarding the sample size justification, the preregistration contained an error: the parameters were reported incorrectly. The correct sample size justification was already provided in the original 2019 grant application and is correctly reported in the current manuscript. The underlying power analysis was the same, but with different alpha levels depending on whether the study involved healthy participants (where larger samples are feasible) or rare patient populations (where stricter alpha levels are not practical). We have clarified this point in the manuscript under deviations from the preregistration.

      Additional changes made in manuscript by authors

      To provide a complete overview, we also note changes made independently of specific reviewer comments:

      Methods

      In the computational modeling section, “reextinction” was mistakenly mentioned where “reacquisition phase” was intended (the initial phase of the volatile phase before experience replay). This has been corrected.

      The term “trial sequence” is used in computational modeling, whereas counterbalancing in the fear conditioning methods used different terminology. We added a clarifying sentence in the modeling section to make this consistent.

      References in the pupil size analysis section (Jentsch et al. 2020; Mathôt et al. 2017) were misplaced and have now been moved earlier in the sentence.

      The citation for MRIcroGL software was updated to the current Nature Methods reference.

      We added a reference to Doubliez et al. 2025 which used the same three-day paradigm in a behavioral study showing similar physiological responses.

      Supplementary information

      During revision, we noted that the SCR statistics had been computed on an earlier preprocessed dataset version, whereas the finalized corrected dataset was already used for plotting and for estimating prediction and prediction-error values in the reinforcement-learning model. We therefore recomputed the SCR statistics on the finalized dataset for the sake of consistency; this did not change any main effects, interactions, or conclusions, with the only difference being an exploratory late-acquisition CS+/CS- post hoc shifting from non-significant to p < 0.05 (interaction still non-significant). Updated statistics are reported in the Supplementary information.

      Post hoc significant differences in Table S3 are now marked in bold, as the formatting was missing previously.

      To align behavioral analyses more closely with the event-based fMRI approach, we additionally examined physiological responses using a first three versus last three trial division within each phase. These analyses yielded patterns consistent with those obtained using the original early/late block division and are reported in the Supplementary Information.

      We added a new supplementary figure (Figure S4) showing the location of the cerebellar VOI on a SUIT flatmap and added a corresponding cross-reference in the Methods section (Volumes of interest (VOI) definition)

      References

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      Bouton, M. E. (2004). Context and Behavioral Processes in Extinction: Table 1. Learning & Memory, 11(5), 485–494. https://doi.org/10.1101/lm.78804

      Constantinou, E., Purves, K. L., McGregor, T., Lester, K. J., Barry, T. J., Treanor, M., Craske, M. G., & Eley, T. C. (2021). Measuring fear: Association among different measures of fear learning. Journal of Behavior Therapy and Experimental Psychiatry, 70(September 2020), 101618. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jbtep.2020.101618

      Craske, M. G., Treanor, M., Conway, C. C., Zbozinek, T., & Vervliet, B. (2014). Maximizing exposure therapy: An inhibitory learning approach. Behaviour Research and Therapy, 58, 10–23. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.brat.2014.04.006

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      Ernst, T. M., Brol, A. E., Gratz, M., Ritter, C., Bingel, U., Schlamann, M., Maderwald, S., Quick, H. H., Merz, C. J., & Timmann, D. (2019). The cerebellum is involved in processing of predictions and prediction errors in a fear conditioning paradigm. ELife, 8, e46831. https://doi.org/10.7554/eLife.46831

      Hermans, D., Craske, M. G., Mineka, S., & Lovibond, P. F. (2006). Extinction in Human Fear Conditioning. Biological Psychiatry, 60(4), 361–368. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.biopsych.2005.10.006

      Kalisch, R., Gerlicher, A. M. V., & Duvarci, S. (2019). A Dopaminergic Basis for Fear Extinction. Trends in Cognitive Sciences, 23(4), 274–277. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.tics.2019.01.013

      Lipp, O. V., Oughton, N., & LeLievre, J. (2003). Evaluative learning in human Pavlovian conditioning: Extinct, but still there? Learning and Motivation, 34(3), 219–239. https://doi.org/10.1016/S0023-9690(03)00011-0

      Lonsdorf, T. B., Menz, M. M., Andreatta, M., Fullana, M. A., Golkar, A., Haaker, J., Heitland, I., Hermann, A., Kuhn, M., Kruse, O., Meir Drexler, S., Meulders, A., Nees, F., Pittig, A., Richter, J., Römer, S., Shiban, Y., Schmitz, A., Straube, B., … Merz, C. J. (2017). Don’t fear ‘fear conditioning’: Methodological considerations for the design and analysis of studies on human fear acquisition, extinction, and return of fear. Neuroscience and Biobehavioral Reviews, 77, 247–285. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.neubiorev.2017.02.026

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      Vervliet, B., Craske, M. G., & Hermans, D. (2013). Fear extinction and relapse: State of the art. Annual Review of Clinical Psychology, 9(March 2013), 215–248. https://doi.org/10.1146/annurev-clinpsy-050212-185542

    1. Author Response:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary and Strengths:

      Shin et al deepen our understanding of high-frequency oscillations in the frontal cortex during REM in a manner that sheds important light on the roles of these events. In particular, they reveal that cortical HFOs are modulated by theta oscillations, occur in chains and recruit cortical neuronal activation patterns in a manner that is distinct from other high-frequency events during non-REM or in the hippocampus. They also show that these events occur during increased oscillatory cross-talk between hippocampus and cortex and may protect cortical neurons from downregulation of firing during sleep. Overall, this is important work with several novel observations pointing towards an important role for these events that will become increasingly understood over time.

      I also wanted to comment that 2D is a beautiful illustration of separate and essentially exclusive communication channels used during HF events in NREM vs REM. They almost perfectly complement each other's frequencies.

      We thank the Reviewer for the positive comments and for highlighting the importance of our work, especially the distinct communication patterns during NREM and REM cortical high-frequency events.

      Weaknesses:

      I have only one major scientific critique: I believe we need to see quantification of how phasic REM theta waves with versus without HFOs differ. What do REM HFOs add to the "normal" theta oscillation? Without this comparison, it is more difficult to interpret the meaning of these events. Given that HFO chains have IEIs around the time of a theta cycle duration, are the repeating spiking activities stronger during HFO repeats than during adjacent theta waves without HFOs?

      We agree with the Reviewer that differences in activity during HFOs versus theta in the absence of HFOs is an important comparison to make to determine whether activity during HFOs reflect a unique state of information processing during REM sleep, or is redundant with theta oscillation signatures. We attempt to clarify this point in Figure S4I where we examined PFC population activity during theta periods outside of HFOs. Here, we extracted REM theta periods at least 250 ms away from detected HFOs and split the theta cycles into quartiles based on the theta power at the preferred theta phase bin determined by theta-coupled-HFOs (during that specific sleep session). We expect that using the preferred phase of HFOs is the most accurate choice for this comparison (compared to random phases). Lastly, we aligned PFC population activity to these theta phases and found that even in the highest theta power quartile, theta modulated fluctuations in PFC population activity were absent without HFOs. This indicates that theta-associated HFOs are the primary driver or signature of the observed population activity patterns (Figures 1H, 3F, S4I). An explanation of this procedure can be found in the Methods section under “Control for periods of high theta power”.

      Regarding the comment “what REM HFOs add to the "normal" theta oscillation”, we hypothesize that generation of HFOs and associated population activity is the result of theta-mediated input from other brain regions that converge on PFC. It is possible that CA1 is a candidate region, since we observed that theta frequency activity in CA1 leads PFC (Figure 4K, Phase slope index result). Additionally, the high concentration of acetylcholine and the high inhibitory tone in REM sleep is conducive to local suppression in response to external drive, as shown in the model and noted in the Discussion. Thus, we propose that HFOs delineate transient windows where sparse populations of PFC neurons are activated in the backdrop of overall suppression, potentially to link specific ensembles across PFC and other brain areas such as the hippocampus – a phenomenon that differs from baseline theta activity in REM.

      To address this point, we will provide additional analyses investigating PFC activity profiles during theta periods adjacent to HFOs. We will also reorganize the results and figures to highlight these important control analyses.

      What percentage of theta waves contain HFOs, and what is the firing rate during those theta waves with vs without HFOs? Is there differential firing rate modulation? The authors may even consider that all REM-HFO-specific quantifications should be shown as differential from phasic theta cycles without HFOs.

      To address these points, we will perform the requested analyses and explicitly quantify firing rate differences during HFO and non-HFO theta periods for further clarification.

      As a non-scientific comment on the manuscript itself: unfortunately, the paper is difficult to read and understand at times, requiring great effort by the reader. This is to an extent that communication is hindered. The paper is dense with changing methods, often from panel to panel. Unfortunately, the panel quantifications are not explained in the results section in a manner that readers can understand without going to read the methods, often for each individual panel. These measures should be explained in a way that lets readers understand the conclusions of each panel and what gross calculations were used to reach those. Instead, too much jargon is used rather than clear descriptions of the overall calculations being done for each panel.

      The point is well-taken and we apologize for the dense text and lack of methodological detail in the results section. We agree with the Reviewer that enhancing clarity and adding additional details about the quantitative methods within the main text and figure panels/legends would improve readability and make the manuscript more accessible for a wider audience.

      To address this point, we will include important details in the results section and legends to clarify the methods and calculations used. We will also reorganize the manuscript text and reorder some figure panels for readability, and update the Methods section to parallel the Results/Figure order to the extent possible.

      The authors mention in the discussion section that they see increased functional connectivity between mPFC and CA1, but most data suggesting this seems to be based on LFP rather than spiking. Functional connectivity is best defined by spiking-spiking relationships. And these authors have spiking data. So I believe either the descriptive language should be pulled back to something like "oscillatory coupling" or more analyses should be dedicated to showing spike-spike coordination across regions.

      To address this point, we will temper the claims of functional connectivity and replace all instances with “oscillatory coupling”.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this study, the authors investigate high-frequency oscillations (HFOs) in the prefrontal cortex during REM sleep. They identify a specific pattern where these HFOs occur in "chains" that are phase-locked to theta oscillations, primarily during the "phasic" periods of REM. The study contrasts these events with isolated HFOs and NREM ripples, suggesting a unique role for these chains in coordinating activity between the prefrontal cortex and the hippocampus. Most notably, the authors report that a specific subset of hippocampal cells-those that co-fire with the prefrontal cortex during these HFOs-increase their firing rates over the course of sleep, suggesting a potential mechanism for selective memory consolidation.

      Strengths:

      The study addresses an under-explored area of sleep physiology: the fine-grained temporal coordination between the cortex and hippocampus during REM sleep. The identification of HFO "chains" and their association with higher theta power provides an interesting framework for understanding how the brain might organize information transfer outside of NREM sleep. The observation that specific hippocampal populations show differential firing rate changes based on their participation in these HFO events is a striking finding that warrants further investigation.

      We thank the Reviewer for finding our work interesting and for the positive comments regarding our manuscript.

      Weaknesses:

      The primary weakness of the study lies in the lack of a clear distinction between global brain states and the specific events being analyzed. Because the authors compare HFOs across different sleep stages (NREM, tonic REM, and phasic REM) without sufficient controls, it is difficult to determine if the observed differences are intrinsic to the HFOs themselves or simply a reflection of the different physiological states in which they occur.

      We appreciate this concern. We do agree that the generation of these ripples/HFOs in NREM and REM sleep are inextricably linked to global brain state (ex. cholinergic tone, as shown in the model), which results in differing patterns of activity across sleep states. However, we also show that activity associated with ripples and HFOs in NREM and REM sleep, respectively, delineate unique periods that underlie intra- and interregional interactions that differ from activity associated with other phenomena, such as spindles or baseline theta periods, in each respective sleep state. Regarding NREM PFC ripples, in our previous publication (Shin and Jadhav 2024), we show that PFC ripples are strongly associated with spindles and slow oscillations, but when PFC activity was assessed by aligning to each of these events separately, we observed significant differences in activity profiles (Shin and Jadhav 2024), indicating that NREM PFC ripples are indeed periods of differential PFC activity during which local reactivation is particularly strong. Similarly, here, in REM sleep, we see that PFC HFOs are strongly coupled with gamma oscillations and that these two frequency bands separately engage PFC neurons (Figures 2C, S3J, differences in phase locking preference of PFC neurons to gamma and HFO). While we observed strong theta modulated neuronal population activity in response to HFOs (Figure 1H), we did not observe the same for gamma events that were uncoupled from HFOs (Figure S3L, right). However, we did observe the population activity suppression when examining gamma events that were coupled with HFOs, but the theta modulated activity was largely absent (Figure S3L, left), indicating that, in terms of higher frequency oscillations, precise alignment to HFOs drives the theta modulated activity. Furthermore, we provide a control for baseline theta periods outside of HFOs to demonstrate that the phasic, theta-modulated activity (Figures 1H, 3F) is due to association with HFOs, and not a common feature during baseline theta activity (Figure S4I). Together, these results demonstrate that the theta modulated, phasic PFC activity that we report is primarily associated with the presence of HFOs.

      To address this point, we will provide a more detailed explanation for the theta controls that we performed, and conduct additional analyses to control for different baseline periods during REM sleep, similar to the response to Reviewer 1’s first comment.

      Furthermore, the evidence for "structured reactivation" is not yet convincing. The temporal alignment of these reactivation events appears inconsistent, with peaks occurring well before the HFO itself, and the analysis does not sufficiently control for pre-existing cellular assembly strengths.

      We thank the Reviewer for raising these important points. Regarding the temporal alignment of assemblies during REM HFOs, since gamma activity is linked to and precedes HFO activity in REM (Figure S3F,G), we posit that assembly activation preceding HFO alignment may be gamma frequency driven. Indeed, we do observe gamma-associated peaks in PFC population activity temporally adjacent to the start of HFO chains in REM (Figure S5F), which we propose is driving the assembly activation.

      Related to our response to Reviewer 1, the hypothesis that we have regarding this finding is that theta-mediated input to PFC, possibly from several brain areas including the hippocampus, converges and elicits cross-frequency activity spanning gamma and HFO bands. We hypothesize that these gamma and HFO oscillations work in concert to evoke the structured reactivation.

      Furthermore, as the Reviewer accurately points out, we are not able to determine whether the assembly patterns active during the REM HFOs pre-existed prior to their assessment during sleep. Since there was not enough REM sleep during the earlier sleep epochs, we were not able to investigate assembly activation patterns during REM in the first pre-task sleep session prior to W-Track exposure.

      To address these points, we will provide additional support for our claims, add clarification to major points, and expand on the methods used to assess structured reactivation. We will also analyze the spatial rate maps of assemblies during behavior on the W-Track and attempt to link these representations to assembly activity during REM HFOs. If sufficient controls cannot be provided, we will temper the claims of “reactivation” and replace all mentions with assembly “activation”.

      Additionally, some of the sleep architecture presented appears atypical, such as very short REM bouts and direct NREM-to-REM transitions that bypass standard progression, raising questions about the consistency of the sleep detection across animals.

      The reviewer is presumably referring to the hypnograms in Figure S1H. In Figure S1H, we presented concatenated hypnograms across all 9 sleep sessions, regardless of whether they were included for analysis. Furthermore, these hypnograms illustrate the output of just the sleep scoring algorithm and do not take into account the secondary, manual inspection that is performed to confirm sleep epoch inclusion. Individual epoch sleep state plots (e.g. Figure S1B) were visually inspected to confirm robust increases in theta-to-delta ratio detected in the absence of movement – epochs where microarousals or persistent subthreshold fluctuations in animal movement induced noisy TD ratio increases, and thus inaccurate REM designation, were excluded. We also want to note that omitting the edge cases, which is a minor part of the REM sleep data, does not change any results.

      Another consideration is that these animals were running a strenuous learning task that required repeated traversal of multiple maze arms over multiple behavioral session, which likely increased sleep pressure and thus may have altered sleep state dynamics in a subset of animals (Leemburg et al. 2010; Yang et al. 2012).

      To address these points, we will provide updated hypnograms that explicitly highlight the epochs used in analysis to resolve ambiguities. We will also further demonstrate that our procedure for sleep state designation is accurate and consistent across animals with supporting materials, including additional sleep stage classification examples, and REM-specific sleep examples marking tonic and phasic REM.

      Finally, the study does not account for potential confounds like baseline firing rates when interpreting the behavior of "high-cofiring" neurons, which may simply be the most active cells in the population.

      When we compared low and high cofiring neurons in CA1, we did indeed compare baseline firing rates between the two groups and found no differences. We compared both mean firing rates across entire sleep sessions as well as mean firing rates restricted to REM sleep (Figure S7A). We apologize that this important control was not emphasized more clearly.

      To address this point, we will explicitly reference this figure in the main text as a standalone point.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Shin et al. examine hippocampal-prefrontal interactions during sleep using simultaneous CA1 and prefrontal cortex recordings in rats performing a spatial memory task. They identify high-frequency oscillation (HFO) events in PFC during REM sleep that occur in theta-modulated chains and are associated with increased CA1-PFC coherence and sequential, sparse reactivation of cortical ensembles. This pattern contrasts with the synchronous reactivation observed during NREM cortical ripples. Together with a simple cholinergic network model, the authors propose that REM HFO chains represent a distinct mechanism for hippocampal-cortical coordination that complements NREM ripple-mediated processing during sleep.

      Strengths:

      A major strength of the work is the extensive electrophysiological dataset, which includes simultaneous recordings of large neuronal populations in both hippocampus and prefrontal cortex across behaviour and subsequent sleep. The analyses linking high-frequency events to population dynamics, interregional coherence, and ensemble reactivation are technically sophisticated and provide an incredibly detailed description of REM-associated cortical activity patterns. In particular, the demonstration that REM HFOs occur in chains aligned to theta phase and organise sequential activation of cortical assemblies represents a potentially important advance in understanding the neural structure of REM sleep activity. The integration of experimental data with a computational model further provides a useful framework for interpreting the observed differences between REM and NREM network states in terms of neuromodulatory influences.

      We thank the Reviewer for finding our work important and for the positive comments regarding the manuscript.

      Weaknesses:

      While overall this study provides a highly valuable body of work, there are two primary limitations, which, if overcome, would provide substantially more significance to the overall characterisation of REM HFOs. Specifically:

      (1) Distinction from wake HFOs

      The results largely support the authors' claim that REM HFO chains represent a distinct pattern of neural coordination compared to NREM cortical ripples. The analyses consistently show differences between REM and NREM events in terms of neuronal modulation, ensemble structure, and interregional coupling. However, similar high-frequency events during wake are not examined. Since REM sleep shares several network features with wakefulness, including strong theta oscillations, evaluating whether comparable PFC HFOs occur during wake would provide clarity on whether these events are specific to REM sleep (and its associated functions) or represent a more general theta-associated phenomenon.

      We thank the Reviewer for this suggestion. Indeed, this is an important comparison to make, since electrophysiological patterns of activity are similar across wake and REM sleep states.

      To address this point, we will detect and analyze HFOs during running behavior on the W-Track to determine if they elicit similar, phasic population responses in PFC.

      (2) Link to memory consolidation

      The manuscript proposes throughout that REM HFO chains may contribute to memory consolidation by coordinating hippocampal-cortical reactivation, but the evidence for this functional role remains indirect. The authors do highlight this as a limitation of the study - the inability to link their findings to learning - but it is not clear why. Further details of the behaviour results should be included. If no learning occurred across the eight behavioural sessions, this should be reported. If learning did occur, but could not be linked to HFO events, this should also be reported.

      This point is well-taken and we will reduce emphasis on memory consolidation in the manuscript. We do want to note that the primary focus here was to investigate new cortical-hippocampal activity patterns during sleep states that are established to be important for memory consolidation, in this case, REM sleep. Indeed, several major discoveries of reactivation and cortical-hippocampal physiological patterns in rodent sleep and wake states thought to be important for memory consolidation were initially reported without a link to memory consolidation, e.g., NREM hippocampal reactivation and replay (Wilson and McNaughton 1994; Lee and Wilson 2002), cortical – hippocampal activity coordination in slow-wave sleep (Siapas and Wilson 1998; Ji and Wilson 2007), waking replay in hippocampus (Foster and Wilson 2006; Karlsson and Frank 2009), etc. As Reviewer 1 noted, we expect that an important role for these novel events reported here will become increasingly understood over time.

      The connection between learning and REM HFO activity is a line of investigation that we find very interesting. However, due to the experimental design and the rapid pace at which the animals learn this task (Shin, Tang, and Jadhav 2019), we were not able to robustly relate REM HFO activity to learning. Firstly, with our threshold criteria for REM sleep detection (>10 s) as well as a total REM sleep duration criterion for sessions, most of the sleep epochs included for analysis came from the later sessions when REM sleep was more abundant (Figure SF,G). Consequently, many of the sleep sessions following the earlier behavioral/learning sessions were excluded. Making a claim about the contribution of REM HFOs to the learning process requires the inclusion of REM sleep periods after each behavior session to examine incremental changes in response to learning. Furthermore, a comparison of these REM sleep periods to pre-task REM sleep (pre-task sleep session #1 prior to task exposure) is important to demonstrate that any changes are dependent on experience. However, we were unable to make this comparison due to lack of REM sleep in pre-task sleep session #1. It is likely that an investigation of the role of these novel events in memory consolidation may require rodent task designs that are known to require REM sleep, such as inference tasks (Abdou et al. 2024; Ellenbogen et al. 2007), motor learning (Nitsche et al. 2010), or emotional memory (van der Helm and Walker 2011; Cairney et al. 2015).

      To address this point, we will reinforce this as a limitation of our study, reduce emphasis on memory consolidation, and further clarify that we were not able to link REM HFO activity to learning. We will also include additional details about the behavioral results.

      References

      Abdou, K., M. Nomoto, M. H. Aly, A. Z. Ibrahim, K. Choko, R. Okubo-Suzuki, S. I. Muramatsu, and K. Inokuchi. 2024. 'Prefrontal coding of learned and inferred knowledge during REM and NREM sleep', Nat Commun, 15: 4566.

      Cairney, S. A., S. J. Durrant, R. Power, and P. A. Lewis. 2015. 'Complementary roles of slow-wave sleep and rapid eye movement sleep in emotional memory consolidation', Cereb Cortex, 25: 1565–75.

      Ellenbogen, J. M., P. T. Hu, J. D. Payne, D. Titone, and M. P. Walker. 2007. 'Human relational memory requires time and sleep', Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A, 104: 7723–8.

      Foster, D. J., and M. A. Wilson. 2006. 'Reverse replay of behavioural sequences in hippocampal place cells during the awake state', Nature, 440: 680–3.

      Ji, D., and M. A. Wilson. 2007. 'Coordinated memory replay in the visual cortex and hippocampus during sleep', Nat Neurosci, 10: 100–7.

      Karlsson, M. P., and L. M. Frank. 2009. 'Awake replay of remote experiences in the hippocampus', Nat Neurosci, 12: 913–8.

      Lee, A. K., and M. A. Wilson. 2002. 'Memory of sequential experience in the hippocampus during slow wave sleep', Neuron, 36: 1183–94.

      Leemburg, S., V. V. Vyazovskiy, U. Olcese, C. L. Bassetti, G. Tononi, and C. Cirelli. 2010. 'Sleep homeostasis in the rat is preserved during chronic sleep restriction', Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A, 107: 15939–44.

      Nitsche, M. A., M. Jakoubkova, N. Thirugnanasambandam, L. Schmalfuss, S. Hullemann, K. Sonka, W. Paulus, C. Trenkwalder, and S. Happe. 2010. 'Contribution of the premotor cortex to consolidation of motor sequence learning in humans during sleep', J Neurophysiol, 104: 2603–14.

      Shin, J. D., and S. P. Jadhav. 2024. 'Prefrontal cortical ripples mediate top-down suppression of hippocampal reactivation during sleep memory consolidation', Curr Biol, 34: 2801–11 e9.

      Shin, J. D., W. Tang, and S. P. Jadhav. 2019. 'Dynamics of Awake Hippocampal-Prefrontal Replay for Spatial Learning and Memory-Guided Decision Making', Neuron, 104: 1110–25 e7.

      Siapas, A. G., and M. A. Wilson. 1998. 'Coordinated interactions between hippocampal ripples and cortical spindles during slow-wave sleep', Neuron, 21: 1123–8.

      van der Helm, E., and M. P. Walker. 2011. 'Sleep and Emotional Memory Processing', Sleep Med Clin, 6: 31–43.

      Wilson, M. A., and B. L. McNaughton. 1994. 'Reactivation of hippocampal ensemble memories during sleep', Science, 265: 676–9.

      Yang, S. R., H. Sun, Z. L. Huang, M. H. Yao, and W. M. Qu. 2012. 'Repeated sleep restriction in adolescent rats altered sleep patterns and impaired spatial learning/memory ability', Sleep, 35: 849–59.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Here, the authors attempted to test whether the function of Mettl5 in sleep regulation was conserved in drosophila, and if so, by which molecular mechanisms. To do so they performed sleep analysis, as well as RNA-seq and ribo-seq in order to identify the downstream targets. They found that the loss of one copy of Mettl5 affects sleep, and that its catalytic activity is important for this function. Transcriptional and proteomic analyses show that multiple pathways were altered, including the clock signaling pathway and the proteasome. Based on these changes the authors propose that Mettl5 modulate sleep through regulation of the clock genes, both at the level of their production and degradation, possibly by altering the usage of Aspartate codon.

      Comments on revised version:

      The authors satisfactorily addressed my comments, even though the precise mechanism by which Mettl5 regulates translation of clock genes remains to be firmly demonstrated.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Xiaoyu Wu and colleagues examined a potential role in sleep of a Drosophila ribosomal RNA methyltransferase, mettl5. Based on sleep defects reported in CRISPR generated mutants, the authors performed both RNA-seq and Ribo-seq analyses of head tissue from mutants and compared to control animals collected at the same time point. A major conclusion was that the mutant showed altered expression of circadian clock genes, and that the altered expression of the period gene in particular accounted for the sleep defect reported in the mettl5 mutant. In this revision, the authors have added a more thorough analysis of clock gene expression and show that PER protein levels are increased relative to wild type animals a specific times of day, indicating increased stability of the protein. Given that PER inhibits its own transcription, the per RNA is low in the mutants. Efforts toward a more detailed understanding of how clock gene expression was altered in the mutants, as well as other clarification of sleep phenotypes throughout is appreciated. As noted above, a strength of this work is its relevance to a human developmental disorder as well as the transcriptomic and ribosomal profiling of the mutant. However, there still remain some minor weaknesses in the manuscript. This reviewer is not in agreement with the interpretation of the epigenetic experiments. Specifically, co-expression of Clk[jrk] or per [01] with the mettl5 mutant recovered the nighttime sleep phenotype, but was additive to the daytime sleep phenotype such that double mutants showed higher sleep. This effect should be acknowledged and discussed. Overall, this is an interesting paper that indicates a molecular link between mettl5 and the circadian clock in regulation of sleep.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The authors misunderstood my original comment for Fig 1A. Please provide an explanation for the significance of the boxed region. There is little or no detail in the legend to help guide the reader.

      The information has been added to the figure legends for Figure 1A.

      Efforts toward improving analysis of circadian genes as well as sleep phenotypes (sleep onset time, rebound, etc) is much appreciated, thank you. However, Figure S1H and G panel labels are mixed up; please label in the order that they appear and that they correspond to the main text. Why is Figure S1H labeled "ZT 14"?

      Sleep latency is defined as the time from preparing to sleep to actually falling asleep. In this study, it specifically refers to the time taken for each individual fly to reach the sleep phenotype (i.e., 25 minutes of continuous sleep). We noted that this label was misleading, as the actual time to reach the sleep phenotype varied among individual flies. Therefore, in the revised figures, we have removed the ZT14 label. In addition, we have corrected the labeling of Figures S1G and S1H to ensure they appear in the correct order and correspond accurately to the descriptions in the main text.

      Unfortunately, based on Fig S1A-C, I am not convinced that mettl5 localizes to neurons, as there are no cells that show double labelling. This figure does not support the statement: "we found expression in both neurons (colocalizing with ELAV staining: Figure S1A-C) (lines 91-92), and "Mettl5-Gal4 is expressed in distinct neurons and glia that appear crucial for sleep regulation." (line 297). What "distinct" sleep related neurons were labeled? The staining in Fig S1A shows a different distribution from that in Fig S1D, and so it's possible this was a technical issue. Is there a better example?

      Thank you for your careful review and valuable comments. We agree that the colocalization of METTL5 with the neuronal marker ELAV is relatively sparse. However, as indicated by the arrows in Fig S1A–C, we did observe a few cells showing clear double labeling. These examples support the presence of METTL5 expression in neurons, albeit at a low frequency.

      In Figure 4G-H, please indicate the time of day of tissue collection.

      In Figure 4G-H, the tissue was collected at ZT0. We have now indicated this time point in the figure and legend to clarify the experimental timing.

      As noted in the public comment, I remain in disagreement with the assessment that "the double mutant showed the similar phenotype as downstream genes". The striking significant increase in daytime sleep in the double mutants remains unexplained. No further experiments are necessary, but this should be acknowledged in the text. Instead of an epistatic effect, given that overall sleep is high in the double mutants, another possible explanation is that the flies are sick and so are less active and sleeping more.

      Thank you for your suggestion. This has been acknowledged in the text. “Genetic epistasis experiments further supported this model, with clock gene mutants modified Mettl5 mutant phenotypes that suggesting both Clock and  Per downstream of Mettl5 (Figure 4I-N, Table 1). Secondary effect may exist for the significant increase in daytime sleep in the double mutants.”

    1. Author Response:

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      The manuscript by Fisher et al describes the molecular mechanism underlying how G beta gamma subunits engage with the beta 3 isoform of PLC. The paper used a combination of cryo EM, BRET assays, and biochemical assays of PLC beta activity. A key discovery is that G beta gamma is not sufficient to drive membrane binding by itself, and instead promotes G alpha activation. The work is important, but suffers slightly from some ambiguity in the actual interface that is present in their cryo EM model, as crosslinkers could stabilise a transient and non-native complex. This is somewhat abrogated by the careful mutational analysis, which shows that mutation of any of these three sites does somewhat block PLC beta G beta gamma activation. However, there could be some improvement in the presentation of this data, as well as possible mutant selection. Overall, this paper is a nice complement to the Falzone et al paper, showing the membrane-bound complex of PLCB3 on membranes, with this work building on this work, highlighting the importance this will have in our full understanding of PLC beta activation.

      Thank you for the positive feedback.

      Major concerns:

      My biggest concern is the potential that this interface is artefactual based on the crosslinking strategy utilised. Here are thoughts on how this could be better validated, presented in a more convincing way.

      (1) The authors' main claim is that there is a degree of plasticity of G beta gamma binding to the PLC beta 3 isoform, with three possible binding sites. The main complication of this is, of course, the possibility that the crosslinking stabilises a non-native complex, driven by a mutated cysteine.

      Because of this, any other additional details about this interface are going to be critical for the scientific audience to judge if this is accurate.

      What would greatly help Figure 1 is an evolutionary conservation analysis of the novel Gbg interface in PLC, to see how well this is conserved, and compare this to the conservation of the previously annotated sites. Conservation of these sites on both the G beta gamma and PLC side would help justify this as a native complex.

      This will also help orient the reader to the identity of the mutated residues assayed in Figure 3.

      We agree that crosslinking can result in the capture a non-physiologically relevant interface. However, we do not observe any crosslinking between Gbg and a PLCb3 variant that retains a cysteine in the disordered region of the X–Y linker, nor crosslinking between PLCb3 and any other cysteine present in the Gbg heterodimer. The evolutionary conservation analysis is a great suggestion and will included in the revision for both Gbg and PLCb.

      (2) The g beta gamma orientation is also different than what I have observed in previous g beta gamma effector structures. Is there any precedent for this as an effector interface? A supplemental figure comparing this structure to other g beta gamma interfaces from other enzymes, for example recent Tesmer structure with PI3K.

      Yes, this is not the more typically observed Gbg–effector interaction, which is mediated by the narrow face of the Gbgtoroid. We are not aware of other structures in which Gbg interacts with a binding partner in the same way. A supplemental figure comparing this Gbg–PLCb interaction to the Gbg–PI3K and Gbg–GRK2 structures will be included in the revision.

      (3) The mutational analysis in Figure 2D-G seems to give some strange results, and I have some question why certain residues were chosen rather than others. Mutation of the Gbg side will be more complicated, as of course that can affect any of the three surfaces. My main question is that, from the way Figure 2A is oriented, the main salt bridge in their novel interface to me looks like R199-D228, with K183 being in the wrong orientation to E226, and D167 being far from any charged residues. Why did the authors not make the corresponding R199 to D or E mutation?

      Thank you for pointing this out. We are in the process of testing the PLCb3 R199E mutant in our assays and will include the results in the revised manuscript.

      (4) To help the reader's interpretation of Figure 2A, I would recommend a supplemental figure showing the density for interfacial residues, as that also would increase confidence in the interface.

      Thank you for the suggestion, this will be included in the revised manuscript.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      In this manuscript, the authors dissect how Gβγ potentiates PLCβ3 signaling in cells. Using engineered crosslinking to stabilize a Gβγ-PLCβ3 complex, single particle cryo-EM, and cell-based functional assays, they identify and map multiple putative Gβγ interaction surfaces on PLCβ3, including a previously unrecognized binding mode. Structure-guided mutagenesis supports the functional relevance of these interactions and suggests that Gβγ potentiation is not primarily mediated by PLCβ3 membrane recruitment, but instead enhances PLCβ3 activity after the lipase is already at the membrane.

      Previous reconstitution work on the membrane surface (Falzone & MacKinnon, 2023) proposed a recruitment/partitioning-centric model in which Gβγ increases PLCβ3 output largely by elevating its membrane surface concentration, whereas Gαq primarily increases catalytic turnover; under those reconstitution conditions, the two inputs can combine approximately multiplicatively. In receptor-driven cellular signaling, however, PLCβ3 is robustly recruited to the plasma membrane upon Gαq activation, which raises the question of whether Gβγ contributes mainly through additional recruitment or through a post-recruitment mechanism once PLCβ3 is already at the membrane.

      This manuscript helps address that gap by using membrane-anchored PLCβ3 and complementary cellular readouts to separate "getting PLCβ3 to the membrane" from "boosting activity once PLCβ3 is already there." Their results argue that, in cells, membrane recruitment is largely dominated by Gαq·GTP, while Gβγ can further potentiate PIP2 hydrolysis after membrane association, consistent with a modulatory role at the membrane rather than primary recruitment.

      Overall, the work provides a structural and mechanistic framework for Gβγ-PLCβ3 cooperation and helps clarify the basis of Gq pathway amplification. The manuscript is generally strong, but some issues need to be addressed.

      Thank you for the positive comments.

      Major comments:

      (1) BMOE/BM(PEG)2 crosslinking may enforce a non-native docking geometry, potentially compromising the physiological relevance and precision of the Gβγ-PLCβ3 interface as described. Although a >50% 1:1 crosslinked complex is formed and remains active, the solution maps show lower local resolution for Gβγ, consistent with a dynamic, potentially heterogeneous, interface. One interface is captured via a single engineered cysteine pair (PLCβ3 E60C-Gβ C271), which could potentially bias the pose. It would be helpful if the authors could provide additional orthogonal support (e.g., alternative crosslinked sites) and bolster the clarification of its uniqueness and relevance.

      We did attempt to isolate other crosslinked complexes. PLCb3-D892 self-crosslinked under all reaction conditions, while PLCb3-D892 XY<sub>Cys</sub> , which retains an endogenous cysteine within the X–Y linker (C516), did not result in any crosslinked product when incubated with Gbg. Only the PLCb3-D892 E60C crosslinked to Gbg as confirmed by SDS-PAGE and SEC. All experiments also used wild-type Gb which contains two solvent-exposed cysteines in the effector binding site (C204 and C271). The greatest number of particles correspond to crosslinking between Gb C271 and E60C in PLCb3-D892. Crosslinking between PLCb3-D892 E60C and other residues in Gbg is possible, but there are not sufficient particle numbers corresponding to these species for 2D classing and reconstruction. These observations, together with the high efficiency of crosslinking, are consistent with a stable and persistent interaction.

      (2) In the crosslinked structure, the authors report that GβD228 interacts with PLCβ3 R199 and K183. In Figure 2A, R199 appears closer to Gβ D228 than K183, yet only K183 is functionally tested. Testing R199 (e.g., R199E/R199A) would strengthen the structure-guided validation of this interface.

      We agree, and functional analysis of PLCb3 R199E will be included in the revision.

      (3) The mutagenesis strategy appears inconsistent across figures/assays, which makes it difficult to interpret phenotypes and directly link the functional data to the proposed interfaces. For example, in Figure 2E, we see R185L but R215E, while residue L40 is mutated to Gly in the IP accumulation assays but to Glu/Lys (L40E/K) in the BRET assays (Figures 3B/3D/3F). The authors should (i) clearly justify the rationale for each substitution (conservative vs charge-reversal, interface disruption, etc.) and (ii), where possible, test the same mutants across assays (or provide evidence that alternative substitutions yield consistent conclusions).

      The mutagenesis experiments were initially carried out independently in the Lambert and Lyon groups. As the study progressed, additional mutations were designed based on prior results. The L40G mutation is one such example. Given its modest impact on activity in the IP accumulation assay, the L40E and L40K mutants designed to maximally disrupt the interface in the BRET experiments. The revision will include the rationale behind different substitutions and discussion of any potential differences.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      PLCβ3 is activated by both Gαq and Gβγ subunits. This paper follows previous solutions and cryoEM studies of PLCβ3 / Gβγ, trying to understand the molecular details of activation using cellular BRET assays and cryoEM.

      Strengths:

      The authors find evidence for multiple binding sites on PLCβ3 for Gβγ and suggest that Gβγ is not bone fide activator per se but enhances Gαq activation by positioning the catalytic site towards substrate, although this is not completely convincing. Although these sites may not naturally be operative, the authors might want to develop the potential role of these sites.

      The authors also find that this activation is not through recruitment of the enzyme to the membrane by Gβγ released upon G protein activation, in accord with other PLCβ enzymes, but not for PLCβ3, and again, the authors might want to develop this point further.

      Thank you for the suggestions.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) I'm confused as to why the authors feel that their mechanism is distinct from the two-state enzyme, the synergistic activation proposed by Ross in 2011, using a primarily thermodynamic argument. As written, the authors appear to be very reliant on structural and BRET studies that do not give the details that would disprove this interpretation. The main issue is that the author's mechanism does not fully explain how Gβγ activation occurs for PLCβ2 in reconstituted systems in the absence of Gαq subunits.

      The reconstitution experiments rely on nM-mM concentrations of purified proteins and liposomes that contain up to 30% PI (4,5)2. PLCb2 and PLCb3 show dose-dependent increases in activity with increasing concentrations of Gbg. PLCb enzymes that interact with the liposomes would encounter liposome-tethered Gbg subunits, which would in turn bind the lipase, tethering to the membrane and helping position the active site for catalysis. While there is not yet experimental evidence that Gbg binding can displace the Ha2’ helix, it could facilitate interfacial activation given the net negative charge of PI (4,5) P2. In addition, PLCb2 is fundamentally different from the other PLCb isoforms in its sensitivity to heterotrimeric G proteins. Given its decreased sensitivity to Ga<sub>q</sub> and increased basal activity, it is possible that autoinhibition by the proximal CTD is weaker. PLCb2 is also abundantly expressed in neutrophils, along with more Gi-coupled receptors. Thus, it is possible that Gbg directly activates PLCb2 in these cells, but future experiments are required to definitively answer this question.

      (2) In a recent study, McKinnon presents a model showing that Gαq and Gβγ activate PLCβ3 by two distinct pathways and that activation by Gβγ occurs through membrane recruitment. It is not surprising that the authors find that this is not true since the pelleting method used by McKinnon is subject to error. The authors should directly address the limitations of this previous work and the changes in proteoliposomes with sedimentation that alter partition coefficients. Although the inability of Gβγ to drive membrane binding is in accord with the quantitative studies of Scarlata, showing that the affinity of PLCβ3 to Gβγ is fairly weak as compared to the intrinsic membrane partition coefficient.

      Thank you for raising this point. The changes in composition, size, and structure when pelleting proteoliposomes may complicate data interpretation and will be discussed in the revision.

      (3) It was proposed many years ago that in signaling complexes Gαq - Gβγ may not have to fully dissociate when binding PLCβ, but rather shift their relative orientation when binding to PLCβ to allow activation. Is their model consistent with this? Is it possible that PLCβ3 keeps Gβγ from diffusing to enhance the rate of Gq / Gβγ re-association?

      The crosslinked complex is compatible with simultaneous binding of a Gbg –Gbg heterotrimer to the PLCb3 without disrupting the observed interface. It is possible that Gbg could interact with Gbg bound to the PH domain or the EF hands in the previously reported reconstruction. If so, the interaction would be mediated by the N-terminal helix of Gbg. Alternatively, the intrinsic GAP activity of PLCb3 may also prevent Gbg from diffusing to promote heterotrimer reassociation.

      (4) The authors find that Gβγ binds multiple sites, and it is clear that the PH domain site is the primary one in accord with previous work. Could these weaker sites be an artifact of the elevated concentrations used in cryoEM and BRET assays?

      Assuming the PH domain is the primary Gbg binding site, it is possible that the secondary EF hand site observed by Falzone and Mackinnon reflects high protein concentrations. However, it seems unlikely that we would reach these concentrations within cells. Our functional data is also consistent with the Gbg binding site in the EF hands playing a functional role in increasing PLCb activity.

      (5) Although their assays infer differences in binding affinities, it would strengthen the paper if the authors could estimate the association energies of these different binding sites. This estimation would also address the concern stated above.

      We appreciate this suggestion and will keep it in mind as we complete the revision.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      This study makes a fundamental contribution to our understanding of interocular suppression, particularly continuous flash suppression (CFS). Using neuroimaging data from two macaque monkeys, the study provides compelling evidence that CFS suppresses orientation responses in neurons within V1. These findings enrich the CFS literature by demonstrating that neural activity under CFS may prevent high-level visual and cognitive processing.

      Comments on revisions:

      The authors have addressed all my previous comments.

      Thanks for the very warm comments!

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The goal of this study was to investigate the degree to which low-level stimulus features (i.e., grating orientation) are processed in V1 when stimuli are not consciously perceived under conditions of continuous flash suppression (CFS). The authors measured the activity of a population of V1 neurons at single neuron resolution in awake fixating monkeys while they viewed dichoptic stimuli that consisted of an oriented grating presented to one eye and a noise stimulus to the other eye. Under such conditions, the mask stimulus can prevent conscious perception of the grating stimulus. By measuring the activity of neurons (with Ca2+ imaging) that preferred one or the other eye, the authors tested the degree of orientation processing that occurs during CFS.

      Strengths:

      The greatest strength of this study is the spatial resolution of the measurement and the ability to quantify stimulus representations during CSF in populations of neurons preferring the eye stimulated by either the grating or the mask. There have been a number of prominent fMRI studies of CFS, but all of them have had the limitation of pooling responses across neurons preferring either eye, effectively measuring the summed response across ocular dominance columns. The ability to isolate separate populations offers an exciting opportunity to study the precise neural mechanisms that give rise to CFS, and potentially provide insights into nonconscious stimulus processing.

      Weaknesses:

      However, while this is an impressive experimental setup, the major weakness of this study is that the experiments don't advance any theoretical account of why CFS occurs or what CFS implies for conscious visual perception. There are two broad camps of thinking with regard to CFS. On the one hand, Watanabe et al., 2011 reported that V1 activity remained intact during

      CFS, implying that CFS interrupts stimulus processing downstream of V1. On the other hand, Yuval-Greenberg and Heeger (2013) showed that V1 activity is in fact reduced during CFS. By using a parametric experimental design, they measured the impact of the mask on the stimulus response as a function of contrast, and concluded that the mask reduces the gain of neural responses to the grating stimulus. They presented a theoretical model in which the mask effectively reduced the SNR of the grating, making it invisible in the same way that reducing contrast makes a stimulus invisible.

      In the first submission of the manuscript, the authors incorrectly described the Yuval-Greenberg & Heeger (2013) paper and Watanabe et al. (2011) papers, suggesting that they had observed the same or similar effects of CFS on V1 activity, when in fact they had described opposite results. Reviewer 1 also observed that the authors appeared to be confused in their reading of these highly relevant papers. In the revision, the authors have reworked this paragraph, now correctly describing these sets of opposing results. However, I still do not understand what the authors are trying to argue: "...these studies were not designed to quantify the pure effect of CFS on stimulus-evoked V1 responses." I do not understand what is meant by "pure" in this case.

      This is clarified as: “Nevertheless, these studies contrasted monocular and dichoptic masking conditions to equate stimulus input while manipulating perceptual visibility, which were not designed to quantify the pure effect of CFS on stimulus-evoked V1 responses, that is, the difference of BOLD signals between binocular masking and stimulus alone conditions.” (line 63)

      Regardless, it is clear that the measurements in the present study strongly support the interpretation of Yuval-Greenberg & Heeger (i.e., that V1 activity is degraded by CFS, 'akin' to a loss in the contrast-to-noise ratio of neural activity). It would be appropriate for the authors to communicate this clearly.

      We agree and added the following sentence in the text: “These results support the conclusion of Yuval-Greenberg and Heeger (2013) that V1 activity is degraded by CFS, ‘akin’ to a loss in the contrast-to-noise ratio of neural activity” (line 122)

      I continue to be of the opinion that this study is lacking an adequate model of interocular interactions that might explain the Ca2+ imaging. The machine learning results are not terribly surprising - multivariate methods, such as SVMs, are more sensitive than univariate approaches. So it is plausible that an SVM can support decoding of the coarse orientation information, even when no tuning is evident in the univariate analyses. However, the link between this result and the underlying neurophysiology is opaque. The failure to model the neural data with an explicit model is a missed opportunity.

      We agree and put “An ocular-dominance-dependent gain control model” back to the text. Fig. 2D now shows the results of model fitting.

      (line 167)

      An ocular-dominance-dependent gain control model

      We developed an ocular dominance-dependent gain control model to account for the impact of CFS on V1 population orientation tuning. The model development followed two steps.

      Step I. Population orientation tuning functions before CFS

      The population orientation tuning functions due to monocular stimulation exhibited different amplitudes among OD groups (Fig. 2D, red curves), which could be simulated with Equation 1, an OD-weighted Gaussian basis function:

      where parameters A, σ, and B corresponded to the amplitude, standard deviation, and minimal response of the Gaussian basis function, respectively, and θ represented the preferred orientation of a bin of neurons relative to the actual orientation of the grating stimulus. The weight parameter w was the mean of linearly transformed ODIs of neurons in a neuronal group, which equated to (ODI +1)/2 or 1 - (ODI + 1)/2, depending on contralateral or ipsilateral eye grating stimulation, and ranged from 0-1. Thus, a smaller w would indicate a higher preference for the eye seeing the grating, and a larger w would indicate a higher preference for the unstimulated eye (or the eye seeing the flashing masker under CFS). The w equated to 0.33, 0.50, and 0.67 in Monkey A, and 0.32, 0.5, and 0.68 in Monkey B, for the grating eye-preferring group, binocular group, and the masker eye-preferring group, respectively. The exponent s represented a nonlinear transformation.

      Equation 1 fitted the baseline data well (Fig. 2D, red curves), resulting in goodness-of-fit (R<sup>2</sup>) values at 0.94 and 0.95 for the two monkeys, respectively. This indicated that the equation captured the OD-dependent population orientation tuning characteristics of V1 neurons with monocular stimulation before CFS.

      Step II. The impacts of CFS

      In step II, the model introduced several binocular combination factors to account for population orientation tuning functions under CFS.

      To account for the OD-dependent changes of orientation tuning bandwidths under CFS, a w-dependent inhibition factor wt was introduced, which scaled the σ of the tuning functions, changing the monocular tunings R into R’:

      This allowed different groups of neurons to exhibit various degrees of orientation tuning function broadening, capturing the pattern in which neurons preferring the eye seeing the grating displayed a sharper population orientation tuning curve under CFS than those preferring the eye seeing the masker.

      Previous studies have shown that binocular neuronal responses can be modeled by incorporating interocular suppression and summation processes (Kato et al., 1981; Dougherty, Cox, Westerberg, & Maier, 2019; Zhang et al., 2024). Therefore, R’ was further normalized by the neural response to the flashing masker to simulate interocular suppression, which was the first component of Equation 3. Additionally, the neural response to the flashing masker was summed to simulate binocular summation, which was the second component of Equation 3. These two components when summed, determining the final neural responses under CFS:

      where N was the empirical neural response to the monocularly presented flashing masker stimulation, a and b were scaling parameters, and k and m were nonlinearity parameters. The interocular normalization by masker response led to amplitude reduction of population orientation tuning functions for different groups of neurons, while the binocular summation with masker response elevated the minimal responses of tuning functions to their corresponding heights.

      During the step II model fitting, the parameters A, σ, and s were inherited from the monocular tuning fits derived from Equation 1 and served as inputs, while the parameters a, k, b, m, and t were optimized. The model captured the CFS modulation on population orientation tuning curves well, with R2 = 0.99 and 0.98 for Monkeys A and B, respectively (Fig. 2D, red curves).

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this study, Tang, Yu & colleagues investigate the impact of continuous flash suppression (CFS) on the responses of V1 neurons using 2-photon calcium imaging. The report that CFS substantially suppressed V1 orientation responses. This suppression happens in a graded fashion depending on the binocular preference of the neuron: neurons preferring the eye that was presented with the marker stimuli were most suppressed, while the neurons preferring the eye to which the grating stimuli were presented were least suppressed. Binocular neuron exhibited an intermediate level of suppression.

      Strengths:

      The imaging techniques are cutting-edge.

      Weaknesses:

      The strength of CFS suppression varies across animals, but the authors attribute this to comparable heterogeneity in the human psychophysics literature.

      Comments on revisions:

      The authors have addressed my comments from the previous round of review, and I have no further comments

      Thanks!

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the current reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      In this paper, Stanojcic and colleagues attempt to map sites of DNA replication initiation in the genome of the African trypanosome, Trypanosoma brucei. Their approach to this mapping is to isolate 'short-nascent strands' (SNSs), a strategy adopted previously in other eukaryotes (including in the related parasite Leishmania major), which involves isolation of DNA molecules whose termini contain replication-priming RNA. By mapping the isolated and sequenced SNSs to the genome (SNS-seq), the authors suggest that they have identified origins, which they localise to intergenic (strictly, inter-CDS) regions within polycistronic transcription units and suggest display very extensive overlap with previously mapped R-loops in the same loci. Finally, having defined locations of SNS-seq mapping, they suggest they have identified G4 and nucleosome features of origins, again using previously generated data. Though there is merit in applying a new approach to understand DNA replication initiation in T. brucei, where previous work has used MFA-seq and ChIP of a subunit of the Origin Replication Complex (ORC), there are two significant deficiencies in the study that must be addressed to ensure rigour and accuracy.

      (i) The suggestion that the SNS-seq data is mapping DNA replication origins that are present in inter-CDS regions of the polycistronic transcription units of T. brucei is novel and does not agree with existing data on the localisation of ORC1/CDC6, and it is very unclear if it agrees with previous mapping of DNA replication by MFA-seq due to the way the authors have presented this correlation. For these reasons, the findings essentially rely on a single experimental approach, which must be further tested to ensure SNS-seq is truly detecting origins. Indeed, in this regard, the very extensive overlap of SNS-seq signal with RNA-DNA hybrids should be tested further to rule out the possibility that the approach is mapping these structures and not origins.

      (ii) The authors' presentation of their SNS-seq data is too limited and therefore potentially provides a misleading view of DNA replication in the genome of T. brucei. The work is presented through a narrow focus on SNS-seq signal in the inter-CDS regions within polycistronic transcription units, which constitute only part of the genome, ignoring both the transcription start and stop sites at the ends of the units and the large subtelomeres, which are mainly transcriptionally silent. The authors must present a fuller and more balanced view of SNS-seq mapping, across the whole genome, to ensure full understanding and clarity.

      In the revised manuscript, the authors have improved the presentation and analysis of their data, expanding the description of SNS-seq mapping across the genome, and more clearly assessing to what extent there is correlation between SNS-seq signal and previous mapping approaches to predict origins (by MFA-seq and ChiP-chip of ORC1/CDC6). With regard the correlation between SNS-seq and ORC/1CDC6 ChIP-chip, it should be noted that two datasets were generated in distinct strains of T. brucei (Lister 427 and TREU927, respectively), and it is unclear if the latter dataset can be accurately mapped to the strain used here. Notwithstanding this concern, these improvements clarify a number of aspects of the SNS-seq mapping: (1) the signal is more prevalent in the transcribed core of the genome than in the largely transcriptionally silent subtelomeres; and (2) whereas previous work revealed strong correlation between ORC1/CDC6 localisation and MFA-seq peaks at the ends of multigene transcription units, neither of these data show significant overlap with SNS-seq signal, which is not seen at transcription start or stop sites ('SSRs'; supplementary Fig.8D) and shows marked depletion at predicted ORC1/CDC6 sites (supplementary Fig.8C). To the authors' credit, they acknowledge this lack of correlation in the discussion.

      The authors have not provided any new data to substantiate their assertion that SNS-seq accurately detects origins in T. brucei, and therefore the work rests on a single experimental approach, without validation. As a result, the suggestion of abundant, previously undetected origins in the intergenic regions of multigene transcription remains a prediction. One key untested limitation of the work lies in the observation that the very large majority of SNS-seq signal overlaps with previously RNA-DNA hybrids; without an experimental test, the suggestion that the authors have 'disclosed for the first time a strong link between RNANA hybrid formation and DNA replication initiation' remains conjecture.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Stanojcic et al. investigate the origins of DNA replication in the unicellular parasite Trypanosoma brucei. They perform two experiments, stranded SNS-seq and DNA molecular combing. Further, they integrate various publicly available datasets, such as G4-seq and DRIP-seq, into their extensive analysis. Using this data, they elucidate the structure of origins of replications. In particular, they find various properties located at or around origins, such as polynucleotide stretches, G-quadruplex structures, regions of low and high nucleosome occupancy, R-loops, and that origins are mostly present in intergenic regions. Combining their population-level SNS-seq and their single-molecule DNA molecular combing data, they elucidate the total number of origins as well as the number of origins active in a single cell.

      Between the initial submission and this revision, the raised major concerns have not been resolved, and no additional validation has been provided.

      Strengths:

      (1) A very strong part of this manuscript is that the authors integrate several other datasets and investigate a large number of properties around origins of replication. Data analysis clearly shows the enrichment of various properties at the origins, and the manuscript is concluded with a very well-presented model that clearly explains the authors' understanding and interpretation of the data.

      (2) The DNA combing experiment is an excellent orthogonal approach to the SNS-seq data. The authors used the different properties of the two experiments (one giving location information, one giving single-molecule information) well to extract information and contrast the experiments.

      (3) The discussion is exemplary, as the authors openly discuss the strengths and weaknesses of the approaches used. Further, the discussion serves its purpose of putting the results in both an evolutionary and a trypanosome-focused context.

      Weaknesses:

      I have major concerns about the origin of replication sites determined from the SNS-seq data. As a caveat, I want to state that, before reading this manuscript, SNS-seq was unknown to me; hence, some of my concerns might be misplaced.

      (1) There are substantial discrepancies between the origins identified here and those reported in previous studies. Given that the other studies precede this manuscript, it is the authors' duty to investigate these differences. A conclusion should be reached on why the results are different, e.g., by orthogonally validating origins absent in the previous studies.

      We agree that orthogonally validation of origins detected by stranded SNS-seq is necessary and we are working on it.

      (2) I am concerned that up to 96% percent of all SNS-seq peaks are filtered away. If there is so much noise in the data, how can one be sure that the peaks that remain are real? Upon request, the authors have performed a control, where randomly placed peaks were run through the same filtering process. Only approximately twice as many experimental peaks passed filtering compared to random peaks. While the authors emphasize reproducibility between replicates, technical artifacts from the protocol would also be reproducible. Moreover, in other SNS-seq studies, for example, Pratto et al. Cell 2021, Fig. 1B, + and − strand peaks always appear closely paired. This pattern contrasts strongly with Fig. 2A in this manuscript.

      The size and overlap of peaks depend on the length of the SNS. In our study, the width of the peaks corresponds to the size of the short nascent strands (0.5–2.5 kb) chosen as the starting material, whereas the width of the peaks in Pratto et al., Cell, 2021 are much larger (few kb). This could be due to the longer SNS used in the Pratto et al. study. Consequently, the overlap of the longer SNS is more pronounced since the SNS fibres elongate in both directions: at the 3′ end by DNA polymerase and at the 5′ end by ligation of Okazaki fragments. Additionally, the genomic regions displayed in our Figure 2A and in Pratto et al, Figure 1B are presented at substantially different resolutions, with a roughly ten‑fold difference in scale.

      Further, I have some minor concerns that do not affect the main conclusions of the manuscript:

      - Fig 2C: The regions shown in the heatmap have different sizes, and I presume that the regions are ordered by size on the y-axis? If so, does the cone-shaped pattern, which is origin-less for genic regions and origin-enriched for intergenic regions, arise from the size of the regions? (I.e., for each genic region, the region itself is origin-less and the flanking intergenic regions contain origins.) If this is the case, then the peaks/valleys, centered exactly on the center of the regions on the mean frequency plots, arise from the different sizes of the analyzed regions, not from the fact that origins are mostly found at the center of intergenic regions. This data would be better presented with all regions stretched to the same size. This has not been addressed in the revision.

      As the reviewer suggested, we have produced scaled plots of the stranded SNS-seq origins over genic and intergenic regions (see Figure 3, which is attached along with the Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors)). However, we would prefer to keep the unscaled versions in the manuscript and add a note in the text as part of the Version of Record, explaining that the origins are evenly distributed throughout intergenic regions rather than being centred within them.

      - Line 123, "and the average length of origins was found to be approximately 150 bp.": To determine origins, the authors filter away overlapping peaks and peaks that are too far from each other. Both restrict the minimal and maximal length of origins that can be observed, and this, in turn, affects the average length. This has not been addressed in the revision.

      This observation is correct. By applying filtering and setting the maximum distance between the positive and negative peaks, we are most likely affecting the average length by excluding potentially wider origins.

      We'll modify the text as part of the Version of Record.

      Are claims well substantiated?:

      The identification of origins via SNS-seq appears to be incompletely supported to me.<br /> All downstream analyses depend on the reliability of origin identification.<br /> Impact:

      This study has the potential to be valuable for two fields: In research focused on T. brucei as a disease agent, where essential processes that function differently than in mammals are excellent drug targets. Further, this study would impact basic research analyzing DNA replication over the evolutionary tree, where T. brucei can be used as an early-divergent eucaryotic model organism.


      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      eLife Assessment

      The authors use sequencing of nascent DNA (DNA linked to an RNA primer, "SNS-Seq") to localise DNA replication origins in Trypanosoma brucei, so this work will be of interest to those studying either Kinetoplastids or DNA replication. The paper presents the SNS-seq results for only part of the genome, and there are significant discrepancies between the SNS-Seq results and those from other, previously-published results obtained using other origin mapping methods. The reasons for the differences are unknown and from the data available, it is not possible to assess which origin-mapping method is most suitable for origin mapping in T. brucei. Thus at present, the evidence that origins are distributed as the authors claim - and not where previously mapped - is inadequate.

      We would like to clarify a few points regarding our study. Our primary objective was to characterise the topology and genome-wide distribution of short nascent-strand (SNS) enrichments. The stranded SNS-seq approach provides the high strand-specific resolution required to analyse origins. The observation that SNS-seq peaks (potential origins) are most frequently found in intergenic regions is not an artefact of analysing only part of the genome; rather, it is a result of analysing the entire genome.

      We agree that orthogonal validation is necessary. However, neither MFA-seq nor TbORC1/CDC6 ChIP-on-chip has yet been experimentally validated as definitive markers of origin activity in T. brucei, nor do they validate each other.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      In this paper, Stanojcic and colleagues attempt to map sites of DNA replication initiation in the genome of the African trypanosome, Trypanosoma brucei. Their approach to this mapping is to isolate 'short-nascent strands' (SNSs), a strategy adopted previously in other eukaryotes (including in the related parasite Leishmania major), which involves isolation of DNA molecules whose termini contain replication-priming RNA. By mapping the isolated and sequenced SNSs to the genome (SNS-seq), the authors suggest that they have identified origins, which they localise to intergenic (strictly, inter-CDS) regions within polycistronic transcription units and suggest display very extensive overlap with previously mapped R-loops in the same loci. Finally, having defined locations of SNS-seq mapping, they suggest they have identified G4 and nucleosome features of origins, again using previously generated data.

      Though there is merit in applying a new approach to understand DNA replication initiation in T. brucei, where previous work has used MFA-seq and ChIP of a subunit of the Origin Replication Complex (ORC), there are two significant deficiencies in the study that must be addressed to ensure rigour and accuracy.

      (1) The suggestion that the SNS-seq data is mapping DNA replication origins that are present in inter-CDS regions of the polycistronic transcription units of T. brucei is novel and does not agree with existing data on the localisation of ORC1/CDC6, and it is very unclear if it agrees with previous mapping of DNA replication by MFA-seq due to the way the authors have presented this correlation. For these reasons, the findings essentially rely on a single experimental approach, which must be further tested to ensure SNS-seq is truly detecting origins. Indeed, in this regard, the very extensive overlap of SNS-seq signal with RNA-DNA hybrids should be tested further to rule out the possibility that the approach is mapping these structures and not origins.

      (2) The authors' presentation of their SNS-seq data is too limited and therefore potentially provides a misleading view of DNA replication in the genome of T. brucei. The work is presented through a narrow focus on SNS-seq signal in the inter-CDS regions within polycistronic transcription units, which constitute only part of the genome, ignoring both the transcription start and stop sites at the ends of the units and the large subtelomeres, which are mainly transcriptionally silent. The authors must present a fuller and more balanced view of SNS-seq mapping across the whole genome to ensure full understanding and clarity.

      Regarding comparisons with previous work:

      - Two other attempts to identify origins in T. brucei - ORC1/CDC6 binding sites (ChIP-on-chip, PMID: 22840408) and MFA-seq (PMID: 22840408, 27228154) - were both produced by the McCulloch group. These methods do not validate each other; in fact, MFA-seq origins overlap with only 4.4% of the 953 ORC1/CDC6 sites (PMID: 29491738). Therefore, low overlap between SNS-seq peaks and ORC1/CDC6 sites cannot disqualify our findings. Similar low overlaps are observed in other parasites (PMID: 38441981, PMID: 38038269, PMID: 36808528) and in human cells (PMID: 38567819).

      - We also would like to emphasize that the ORC1/CDC6 dataset originally published (PMID: 22840408) is no longer available; only a re-analysis by TritrypDB exists, which differs significantly from the published version (personal communication from Richard McCulloch). While the McCulloch group reported a predominant localization of ORC1/CDC6 sites within SSRs at transcription start and termination regions, our re-analysis indicates that only 10.3% of TbORC1/CDC6-12Myc sites overlapped with 41.8% of SSRs.

      - MFA-seq does not map individual origins, it rather detects replicated genomic regions by comparing DNA copy number between S- and G1-phases of the cell cycle (PMID: 36640769; PMID: 37469113; PMID: 36455525). The broad replicated regions (0.1–0.5 Mbp) identified by MFA-seq in T. brucei are likely to contain multiple origins, rather than just one. In that sense we disagree with the McCulloch's group who claimed that there is a single origin per broad peak. Our analysis shows that up to 50% of the origins detected by stranded SNS-seq locate within broad MFA-seq regions. The methodology used by McCulloch’s group to infer single origins from MFA-seq regions has not been published or made available, as well as the precise position of these regions, making direct comparison difficult.

      Finally, the genomic features we describe—poly(dA/dT) stretches, G4 structures and nucleosome occupancy patterns—are consistent with origin topology described in other organisms.

      On the concern that SNS-seq may map RNA-DNA hybrids rather than replication origins: Isolation and sequencing of short nascent strands (SNS) is a well-established and widely used technique for high-resolution origin mapping. This technique has been employed for decades in various laboratories, with numerous publications documenting its use. We followed the published protocol for SNS isolation (Cayrou et al., Methods, 2012, PMID: 22796403). RNA-DNA hybrids cannot persist through the multiple denaturation steps in our workflow, as they melt at 95°C (Roberts and Crothers, Science, 1992; PMID: 1279808). Even in the unlikely event that some hybrids remained, they would not be incorporated into libraries prepared using a single-stranded DNA protocol and therefore would not be sequenced (see Figure 1B and Methods).

      Furthermore, our analysis shows that only a small proportion (1.7%) of previously reported RNA-DNA hybrids overlap with SNS-seq origins. It is important to note that RNA-primed nascent strands naturally form RNA-DNA hybrids during replication initiation, meaning the enrichment of RNA-DNA hybrids near origins is both expected and biologically relevant.

      On the claim that our analysis focuses narrowly on inter-CDS regions and ignores other genomic compartments: this is incorrect. We mapped and analyzed stranded SNS-seq data across the entire genome of T. brucei 427 wild-type strain (Müller et al., Nature, 2018; PMID: 30333624), including both core and subtelomeric regions. Our findings indicate that most origins are located in intergenic regions, but all analyses were performed using the full set of detected origins, regardless of location.

      We did not ignore transcription start and stop sites (TSS/TTS). The manuscript already includes origin distribution across genomic compartments as defined by TriTrypDB (Fig. 2C) and addresses overlap with TSS, TTS and HT in the section “Spatial coordination between the activity of the origin and transcription”. While this overlap is minimal, we have included metaplots in the revised manuscript for clarity.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Stanojcic et al. investigate the origins of DNA replication in the unicellular parasite Trypanosoma brucei. They perform two experiments, stranded SNS-seq and DNA molecular combing. Further, they integrate various publicly available datasets, such as G4-seq and DRIP-seq, into their extensive analysis. Using this data, they elucidate the structure of the origins of replication. In particular, they find various properties located at or around origins, such as polynucleotide stretches, G-quadruplex structures, regions of low and high nucleosome occupancy, R-loops, and that origins are mostly present in intergenic regions. Combining their population-level SNS-seq and their single-molecule DNA molecular combing data, they elucidate the total number of origins as well as the number of origins active in a single cell.

      Strengths:

      (1) A very strong part of this manuscript is that the authors integrate several other datasets and investigate a large number of properties around origins of replication. Data analysis clearly shows the enrichment of various properties at the origins, and the manuscript concludes with a very well-presented model that clearly explains the authors' understanding and interpretation of the data.

      We sincerely thank you for this positive feedback.

      (2) The DNA combing experiment is an excellent orthogonal approach to the SNS-seq data. The authors used the different properties of the two experiments (one giving location information, one giving single-molecule information) well to extract information and contrast the experiments.

      Thank you very much for this remark.

      (3) The discussion is exemplary, as the authors openly discuss the strengths and weaknesses of the approaches used. Further, the discussion serves its purpose of putting the results in both an evolutionary and a trypanosome-focused context.

      Thank you for appreciating our discussion.

      Weaknesses:

      I have major concerns about the origin of replication sites determined from the SNS-seq data. As a caveat, I want to state that, before reading this manuscript, SNS-seq was unknown to me; hence, some of my concerns might be misplaced.

      (1) I do not understand why SNS-seq would create peaks. Replication should originate in one locus, then move outward in both directions until the replication fork moving outward from another origin is encountered. Hence, in an asynchronous population average measurement, I would expect SNS data to be broad regions of + and -, which, taken together, cover the whole genome. Why are there so many regions not covered at all by reads, and why are there such narrow peaks?

      Thank you for asking these questions. As you correctly point out, replication forks progress in both directions from their origins and ultimately converge at termination sites. However, the SNS-seq method specifically isolates short nascent strands (SNSs) of 0.5–2.5 kb using a sucrose gradient. These short fragments are generated immediately after origin firing and mark the sites of replication initiation, rather than the entire replicated regions. Consequently: (i) SNS-seq does not capture long replication forks or termination regions, only the immediate vicinity of origins. (ii) The narrow peaks indicate the size of selected SNSs (0.5–2.5 kb) and the fact that many cells initiate replication at the same genomic sites, leading to localized enrichment. (iii) Regions without coverage refer to genomic areas that do not serve as efficient origins in the analyzed cell population. Thus, SNS-seq is designed to map origin positions, but not the entire replicated regions.

      (2) I am concerned that up to 96% percent of all peaks are filtered away. If there is so much noise in the data, how can one be sure that the peaks that remain are real? Specifically, if the authors placed the same number of peaks as was measured randomly in intergenic regions, would 4% of these peaks pass the filtering process by chance?

      Maintaining the strandness of the sequenced DNA fibres enabled us to filter the peaks, thereby increasing the probability that the filtered peak pairs corresponded to origins. Two SNS peaks must be oriented in a way that reflects the topology of the SNS strands within an active origin: the upstream peak must be on the minus strand and followed by the downstream peak on the plus strand.

      As suggested by the reviewer, we tested whether randomly placed plus and minus peaks could reproduce the number of filter-passing peaks using the same bioinformatics workflow. Only 1–6% of random peaks passed the filters, compared with 4–12% in our experimental data, resulting in about 50% fewer selected regions (origins). Moreover, the “origins” from random peaks showed 0% reproducibility across replicates, whereas the experimental data showed 7–64% reproducibility. These results indicate that the retainee peaks are highly unlikely to arise by chance and support the specificity of our approach. Thank you for this suggestion.

      (3) There are 3 previous studies that map origins of replication in T. brucei. Devlin et al. 2016, Tiengwe et al. 2012, and Krasiļņikova et al. 2025 (https://doi.org/10.1038/s41467-025-56087-3), all with a different technique: MFA-seq. All three previous studies mostly agree on the locations and number of origins. The authors compared their results to the first two, but not the last study; they found that their results are vastly different from the previous studies (see Supplementary Figure 8A). In their discussion, the authors defend this discrepancy mostly by stating that the discrepancy between these methods has been observed in other organisms. I believe that, given the situation that the other studies precede this manuscript, it is the authors' duty to investigate the differences more than by merely pointing to other organisms. A conclusion should be reached on why the results are different, e.g., by orthogonally validating origins absent in the previous studies.

      The MFA-seq data for T. brucei were published in two studies by McCulloch’s group: Tiengwe et al. (2012) using TREU927 PCF cells, and Devlin et al. (2016) using PCF and BSF Lister427 cells. In Krasilnikova et al. (2025), previously published MFA-seq data from Devlin et al. were remapped to a new genome assembly without generating new MFA-seq data, which explains why we did not include that comparison.

      Clarifying the differences between MFA-seq and our stranded SNS-seq data is essential. MFA-seq and SNS-seq interrogate different aspects of replication. SNS-seq is a widely used, high-resolution method for mapping individual replication origins, whereas MFA-seq detects replicated regions by comparing DNA copy number between S and G1 phases. MFA-seq identified broad replicated regions (0.1–0.5 Mb) that were interpreted by McCulloch’s group as containing a single origin. We disagree with this interpretation and consider that there are multiple origins in each broad peaks; theoretical considerations of replication timing indicate that far more origins are required for complete genome duplication during the short S-phase. Once this assumption is reconsidered, MFA-seq and SNS-seq results become complementary: MFA-seq identifies replicated regions, while SNS-seq pinpoints individual origins within those regions. Our analysis revealed that up to 50% of the origins detected by stranded SNS-seq were located within the broad MFA peaks. This pattern—broad MFA-seq regions containing multiple initiation sites—has also recently been found in Leishmania by McCulloch’s team using nanopore sequencing (PMID: 26481451). Nanopore sequencing showed numerous initiation sites within MFA-seq regions and additional numerous sites outside these regions in asynchronous cells, consistent with what we observed using stranded SNS-seq in T. brucei. We will expand our discussion and conclude that the discrepancy arises from methodological differences and interpretation. The two approaches provide complementary insights into replication dynamics, rather than ‘vastly different’ results.

      We recognize the importance of validating our results in future using an alternative mapping method and functional assays. However, it is important to emphasize that stranded SNS-seq is an origin mapping technique with a very high level of resolution. This technique can detect regions between two divergent SNS peaks, which should represent regions of DNA replication initiation. At present, no alternative technique has been developed that can match this level of resolution.

      (4) Some patterns that were identified to be associated with origins of replication, such as G-quadruplexes and nucleosomes phasing, are known to be biases of SNS-seq (see Foulk et al. Characterizing and controlling intrinsic biases of lambda exonuclease in nascent strand sequencing reveals phasing between nucleosomes and G-quadruplex motifs around a subset of human replication origins. Genome Res. 2015;25(5):725-735. doi:10.1101/gr.183848.114).

      It is important to note that the conditions used in our study differ significantly from those applied in the Foulk et al. Genome Res. 2015. We used SNS isolation and enzymatic treatments as described in previous reports (Cayrou, C. et al. Genome Res, 2015 and Cayrou, C et al. Methods, 2012). Here, we enriched the SNS by size on a sucrose gradient and then treated this SNS-enriched fraction with high amounts of repeated λ-exonuclease treatments (100u for 16h at 37oC - see Methods). In contrast, Foulk et al. used sonicated total genomic DNA for origin mapping, without enrichment of SNS on a sucrose gradient as we did, and then they performed a λ-exonuclease treatment. A previous study (Cayrou, C. et al. Genome Res, 2015, Figure S2, which can be found at https://genome.cshlp.org/content/25/12/1873/suppl/DC1) has shown that complete digestion of G4-rich DNA sequences is achieved under the conditions we used.

      Furthermore, the SNS depleted control (without RNA) was included in our experimental approach. This control represents all molecules that are difficult to digest with lambda exonuclease, including G4 structures. Peak calling was performed against this background control, with the aim of removing false positive peaks resulting from undigested DNA structures. We explained better this step in the revised manuscript.

      The key benefit of our study is that the orientation of the enrichments (peaks) remains consistent throughout the sequencing process. We identified an enrichment of two divergent strands synthesised on complementary strands containing G4s. These two divergent strands themselves do not, however, contain G4s (see Fig. 8 for the model). Therefore, the enriched molecules detected in our study do not contain G4s. They are complementary to the strands enriched with G4s. This means that the observed enrichment of

      G4s cannot be an artefact of the enzymatic treatments used in this study. We added this part in the discussion of the revised manuscript.

      We also performed an additional control which is not mentioned in the manuscript. In parallel with replicating cells, we isolated the DNA from the stationary phase of growth, which primarily contains non-replicating cells. Following the three λ-exonuclease treatments, there was insufficient DNA remaining from the stationary phase cells to prepare the libraries for sequencing. This control strongly indicated that there was little to no contaminating DNA present with the SNS molecules after λ-exonuclease enrichment.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Four broad issues need to be addressed.

      (1) The authors have attempted to test the overlap between ORC1/CDC6 (an ORC subunit) binding in the genome and SNS-seq. If there were an overlap, this would provide evidence that the SNS-seq signals represent origins. However, the analysis provided is inadequate: merely a statement that "we obtained an overlap of 4.2% between origins and ORC1/CDC6 binding sites within a window of {plus minus}2 kb and 6.2% in the window of {plus minus}3 kb". Nowhere are these data shown or properly discussed:

      a) The authors need to provide a diagram showing where in the genome the very small amount of overlapping SNS-seq and ORC1/CDC6 binding occurs, and to clearly show and state how many of the intergenic SNS-seq peaks are sites of ORC1/CDC6 binding. In the absence of such analysis, a key question is unanswered: is there any evidence of ORC1/CDC6 (or ORC more broadly) binding at the SNS-seq signals within the polycistronic transcription units?

      In the original version of the manuscript, these data were already presented as percentages in the text and as a metaplot (Supplementary Fig. 8C).

      We based our analysis on the set of 350 TbORC1/CDC6 binding sites available on TriTrypDB at the time of analysis. This dataset was a filtered subset of the originally reported TbORC1/CDC6 ChIP‑on‑chip peaks (personal communication, TriTrypDB). Since then, the unfiltered dataset has been made available. We therefore re‑analyzed the overlap using this dataset, to which we applied a filtering that yielded 990 binding sites closely matching the 953 sites reported by the McCulloch group. We need to stress here that the original 953 sites reported by the McCulloch group (Tiengwe et al., 2012 PMID: 22840408), is not available anymore and that the authors:

      - do not provide genomic coordinates for the 953 binding sites and

      - do not release any scripts or methodology that would allow independent reproduction of the 953 sites.

      A similar remark also applies to the MFA-seq data (see below).

      To address the reviewer’s request, we have now:

      (1) Recalculated the overlap using the updated TbORC1/CDC6 dataset (990 binding sites) from TriTrypDB.

      (2) Added the absolute number of overlapping SNS‑seq origins and TbORC1/CDC6 binding sites in the Results section for clarity.

      (3) Included the TbORC1/CDC6 binding sites in the chromosomal overview (newly added to Supplementary Fig. 8A), so that their genomic localization relative to SNS‑seq peaks is visually accessible.

      (4) Revised the metaplots of TbORC1/CDC6 distribution around SNS‑seq origins using the updated dataset (Supplementary Fig. 8C).

      With these improvements, we now find that:

      - Within ±2 kb, 12.9% (253) of SNS‑seq origins overlap with 25.6% of TbORC1/CDC6 binding sites.

      - Within ±3 kb, 18.8% (370) of SNS‑seq origins overlap with 37.4% of TbORC1/CDC6 binding sites.

      The updated metaplot shows a clear depletion of TbORC1/CDC6 signal at the origin center, with modest enrichment ~5 kb upstream and downstream. The underlying reason for this pattern remains unknown, and we agree that additional studies will be needed to understand it.

      b) Equally, the authors need to explain what they conclude from this analysis. They make a comparison with T. cruzi ORC1/CDC6 and SNS-seq overlap, which does not illuminate what the data tell us. For instance, if there is no or minimal overlap between ORC1/CDC6 binding and SNS-seq peaks within the polycistronic transcription units, do they conclude that the major SNS-seq signal they detail is evidence for ORC-independent DNA replication? If there is no overlap, what further evidence can they provide that these signals truly are origins?

      First, we would like to clarify that, to date, there is no evidence supporting ORC‑independent DNA replication in T. brucei, and—importantly—no published data demonstrating that TbORC1/CDC6 is universally required for DNA replication initiation. Because of this, we consider that it would be inappropriate to conclude that regions lacking detectable TbORC1/CDC6 signal undergo ORC‑independent initiation. We would prefer not to speculate in the absence of supporting evidence and would gratefully consider any reference the reviewer wishes to provide on this subject.

      Second, the low overlap between TbORC1/CDC6 binding sites and SNS‑seq origins does not, in our view, invalidate our mapping of replication initiation sites. Multiple factors contribute to this:

      (1) Low overlap between ORC1/CDC6 and origin‑mapping techniques has been repeatedly reported across kinetoplastids. For instance, in T. cruzi, 88.2% of origins detected by DNAscent nanopore sequencing showed no overlap with TcORC1/CDC6–Ty1 ChIP signal within ±3 kb, and only 11.7% co‑localized. This is strikingly similar to our observations in T. brucei. Thus, our data are consistent with the broader pattern in trypanosomatids rather than an exception.

      (2) The origin topology detected by stranded SNS‑seq is supported by several genomic characteristic found frequently in other eukaryotes, including:

      - A highly specific and polarized poly(dA)/poly(dT) sequence environment.

      - Strand‑specific G4 structures positioned around origin centers.

      - A conserved nucleosome‑depleted region flanked by well‑positioned nucleosomes.

      These features are absent from shuffled controls, appear at high significance, and recapitulate hallmark signatures of replication origins in other eukaryotes.

      Together, these findings give us confidence that the SNS‑seq peaks represent genuine origins - despite the incomplete overlap with TbORC1/CDC6 binding.

      Third, we fully agree with the reviewer that a definitive conclusion would require an additional, independent validation method.

      Given the lack of complete ORC subunit datasets and the unusual biology of trypanosomatid replication complexes, we believe that the cautious interpretation above is the most appropriate.

      c) The authors state (Discussion): "Validation of origins is generally a difficult task, particularly in trypanosomatids, where proteins involved in the initiation of DNA replication are difficult to determine. Few proteins have been described as potential ORC subunits (reviewed in 61), and none of them have been shown to be a specific marker that indicates the origins." There are two problems with the statement. First, most of the subunits of ORC have now been described in T. brucei; the authors should make this clear. Second, mapping of ORC1/CDC6 localisation, contrary to what the authors state here, shows precise correlation with the peaks of every MFA-seq signal described (see Tiengwe et al, Cell Reports, 2012); thus, ORC1/CDC6 binding provides evidence that MFA-seq is detecting origins, something that cannot be said for SNS-seq. The authors need to correct this misleading paragraph.

      As suggested, we have removed the paragraph from the Discussion to avoid confusion. However, we disagree with the reviewer's assessment and clarify below our position regarding the issues raised.

      First, we agree that five candidate ORC subunits have now been identified in T. brucei. Our intention was not to suggest the contrary, but rather to emphasize that, although candidate ORC components have been described, direct functional evidence for their roles in replication initiation is still limited. For this reason, we were cautious in referring to any ORC component as a definitive marker of replication origins.

      Second, regarding the reviewer’s statement that TbORC1/CDC6 binding “shows precise correlation with the peaks of every MFA‑seq signal”, we respectfully disagree based on several observations:

      (1) MFA‑seq does not identify individual origin centers, but rather broad replicated regions that often span hundreds of kilobases. By design, this method cannot define the number or position of discrete origins within each peak. For that reason, MFA-seq regions do not have the resolution required to validate TbORC1/CDC6 binding sites as individual origins.

      (2) In the published datasets (Tiengwe et al., Devlin et al.), no metaplots or locus‑wide quantification of the overlap between MFA‑seq peaks and TbORC1/CDC6 binding were provided. The coordinates or the approach used to define the discrete regions that they define as the originsin the MFA‑seq broad peaks have never been described or made available, making it difficult to evaluate the claimed correspondence.

      (3) Notably, McCulloch’s group later reported that only 4.4% of the 953 TbORC1/CDC6 sites overlapped with their 42 MFA‑seq “origins”, underscoring that the degree of correspondence is in fact limited (PMID: 29491738).

      (4) Finally, as noted in our response to point (1b), low overlap between ORC1/CDC6 binding sites and origin‑mapping techniques is a consistent observation across kinetoplastids, including T. cruzi, where DNAscent‑mapped origins show only ~12% overlap with TcORC1/CDC6 ChIP signals. This suggests that the limited overlap we observe is not unique to our dataset.

      For these reasons, we are not convinced that the TbORC1/CDC6 binding sites have been shown to align precisely with MFA seq peaks, nor that these datasets definitively validate origin mapping in T. brucei. Nevertheless, to avoid over‑interpretation and potential confusion, we have removed the paragraph from the Discussion as requested. We hope this clarifies our position and improves the accuracy and neutrality of the manuscript.

      (2) Like for ORC1/CDC6 localisation, the authors' evaluation of the relationship between MFA-seq and SNS-seq mapping is inadequate, and the depth of the analysis and discussion needs to be improved:

      a) The authors state: "We found 28-42% stranded SNS-seq origins overlapped with early and 43-55% overlapped with late S-phase MFA-seq replicated regions (Supplementary Figure 8B)." This seems important and provides (limited) validation of both datasets, but cannot be discerned from the supplied figure. Please provide a metaplot of the two datasets centred on the MFA-seq loci, including the SNS-seq peak amplitude.

      We would like to emphasize that MFA‑seq is not a method designed to map individual origins, and this fundamentally limits the interpretability of metaplots centered on MFA-seq regions. MFA‑seq identifies broad replication‑enriched domains, typically spanning 100–500 kb, within which multiple origins may fire asynchronously across the cell population.

      This concern is reinforced by the original MFA‑seq publications (Tiengwe et al., 2012; Devlin et al., 2016), which:

      - do not provide positional data for the 42-47 MFA‑inferred origins,

      - do not describe the computational method used to derive individual origin coordinates from the broad peaks, and

      - do not release any scripts or methodology that would allow independent reproduction of the claimed origin positions.

      Because of this, it is not possible to reconstruct or validate how the 42 MFA‑seq “origin” sites were defined, nor to use those coordinates as anchors for metaplot analyses.

      Most importantly, we disagree with the underlying assumption that each MFA‑seq peak corresponds to exactly one origin. This assumption runs counter to the principle of the technique, which identifies regions of higher DNA content in replicating cells than in non-replicating cells; it is also contradicted by our stranded SNS‑seq data and by DNA combing measurements:

      - SNS‑seq detects multiple discrete origins within the same genomic regions that produce a single broad MFA‑seq peak.

      - DNA combing reveals inter‑origin distances of ~36–422 kb (median ~150 kb) (PMID: 26976742), which is far shorter than the ~400–600 kb replication domains identified by MFA‑seq.

      - Furthermore, with only 42 origins detected by MFA-seq, it is not possible to achieve complete genome replication in T. brucei during S-phase. DNA combing has found that the average speed of replication forks in the procyclic forms is 1.9 Kb/min. (PMID: 26976742). Dividing the size of the Trypanosoma brucei brucei TREU927 genome (26.1 Mb) by 42 origins (PMID: 22840408) shows that 621 Kb must be replicated during the S phase. Using the calculated average replication speed of 1.9 Kb/min, we can estimate that the replication of 621 Kb would take 327 min (5.45 hours) (621 Kb/1.9 Kb/min = 327 min). However, this exceeds the estimated length of the S-phase in these parasites, which is 2.31 hours (138.6 minutes) (PMID: 32397111, 31811174, 28258618) or less, 1.36 hours (PMID: 2190996, 10574712) in Trypanosoma brucei procyclic forms. Therefore, more than 42 origins are necessary to complete replication during the short S phase.

      This makes it unlikely that MFA-seq regions represent single functional origins. For these reasons, a metaplot centered on MFA‑seq “loci” may lead to misinterpretations and would not provide biologically meaningful information.

      We hope that the expanded explanation clarifies our interpretation of the relationship between these two complementary, but fundamentally different, methods.

      b) The authors state that "Our results showed that the origins are predominantly located in the intergenic regions within the PTUs (Figure 2C)'. This finding cannot be discerned from this figure, which does not show 'strand switch regions' (SSRs; transcription start/stop sites), where MFA-seq predicts all origins to localise. The authors need to acknowledge this difference and must show a comparison of SNS-seq data, including peak amplitude, around all SSRs (whether predicted by MFA-seq to act as origins or not, since all appear to bind ORC1/CDC6).

      We have now provided the metaplots showing the overlap between stranded SNS-seq origins and SSRs (see Supplementary Figure 8D). This difference has been acknowledged and discussed in the revised manuscript.

      c) Finally, the authors' interpretation that around 30-55% of SNS-seq peaks overlap with MFA-seq 'origins' is highly questionable. MFA-seq peaks are regions of increased DNA content in replicating cells relative to non-replicating cells, and so the entire region under the MFA-seq peak is not necessarily an origin, but is likely to be a more discrete locus (eg, the SSR, where ORC1/CDC6 mainly localises). They should correct the wording and discuss what significance they see in this overlap; for instance, do they think SNS-seq 'clusters' are more pronounced within the MFA-seq peaks and, if so, what might this mean, and why does it not correlate with ORC1/CDC6 localisation?

      As the reviewer notes, ‘MFA‑seq peaks are regions of increased DNA content, and so the entire region under the MFA-seq peak is not necessarily an origin but is likely to be a more discrete locus’. This is exactly why MFA‑seq is inappropriate for identifying discrete/individual origins: within these replicated domains, multiple origins can fire, as revealed both by stranded SNS‑seq mapping.

      Regarding the overlap between SNS‑seq origins and MFA‑seq peaks, we agree with the reviewer that this overlap should not be interpreted as validating MFA‑seq “origin positions.” Instead, we now describe it more accurately as the proportion of discrete SNS‑seq origins that fall within broader MFA‑seq replication domains. This is expected, because SNS‑seq identifies individual initiation events, whereas MFA‑seq identifies S‑phase replication domains averaged across a population. Our stranded SNS‑seq data do not show enhanced origin accumulation within MFA-seq regions, and we find no correlation with TbORC1/CDC6 positions. This is now discussed.

      Regarding SSRs, we do not share the view that they should be considered privileged initiation sites. After remapping the TbORC1/CDC6 ChIP‑on‑chip dataset (see above) to the T. brucei Lister 427–2018 genome (Supplementary Fig. 8A), we observed that TbORC1/CDC6 binding is distributed throughout the chromosomes, not restricted to SSRs. To quantify this, we analyzed the overlap between TbORC1/CDC6 sites and all annotated SSR classes (dSSRs, cSSRs, and head‑to‑tail regions, as defined in Kim et al. 2009). The results show that:

      Only 10% of TbORC1/CDC6 binding sites fall within 40% of all SSRs.

      At the level of individual SSR types:

      - TTS: 3.3% of TTS overlap with 0.3% of TbORC1/CDC6 sites.

      - TSS: 67% of TSS overlap with 6.1% of TbORC1/CDC6 sites.

      - Head‑to‑tail regions: 54.2% overlap with 3.6% of TbORC1/CDC6 sites.

      These analyses demonstrate that most TbORC1/CDC6 sites are not located at SSRs, contradicting the idea that SSRs represent primary or exclusive origin sites.

      Author response image 1.

      Overlap between TbORC1/CDC6-12Myc binding sites (Tiengwe 2012, Cell Reports) and strand‑switch regions (SSRs). Venn diagram showing the overlap of 990TbORC1/CDC6-12Mycbinding sites (Retrieved from TritrypDB filtered at score 22 to achieve a number of binding sites similar to the one (953 binding sites) published in Tiengwe 2012, Cell Reports) and SSR sites in the genome (Kim 2018, NAR). The intersection shows that 10.3% of Orc1/CDC6 binding sites overlap with 41.8% SSRs. The intersection is subdivided into TSS (orange), TTS in (blue) and HT in (green).

      (3) A key objection to the data presentation is the decision to limit SNS-seq mapping to the intergenic regions. In addition to overlooking the SSRs (see above, 2), so-called subtelomeres, which account for nearly 50% of the T. brucei genome and are largely untranscribed, are not shown or discussed at all. Providing this data will improve clarity and also provide a key test of one of the predictions that the authors make: "most origins are localized in actively transcribed regions, which could lead to collisions between DNA replication and the transcription machinery. This spatial coincidence implies that transcription and replication must occur in a highly ordered and cooperative manner in T. brucei."

      We do not understand why this reviewer concluded that we took 'the decision to limit the mapping of SNS-seq to intergenic regions'. This is a factual error.

      To be clearer,

      (2) We now explicitly present the distribution of SNS‑seq origins across core and subtelomeric regions in the revised Figure 2D, making clear that origin mapping was performed genome‑wide.

      (2) And that SNS‑seq origins are also present in subtelomeric regions. We have revised the manuscript to avoid any implication that origin firing is restricted only to actively transcribed regions. Our data show that most SNS‑seq origins lie within intergenic regions of PTUs, but a minority are found outside these regions—including subtelomeres and SSRs. The revised text reflects this nuance and highlights that the spatial relationship between transcription and replication is strong but not exclusive.

      These additions undoubtedly ensure that the genomic-wide nature of SNS-seq analysis is transparent to the reader and should therefore remove this reviewer's “key objection”.

      a) The authors must show SNS-seq mapping to the subtelomeres (in addition to around the SSRs; see comment (2). If no SNS-seq peaks are detected in the subtelomeres, what do the authors conclude about how the genome is duplicated? If SNS-seq peaks are detected in the subtelomeres, do they correspond with the ordered nucleosomes in this part of the genome described by Maree et al (PMID: 28344657); if so, might SNS-seq signal localisation not be directed by transcription but chromatin?

      We have now presented the proportion of origins in subtelomeric regions (see Figure 2B).

      As illustrated in the metaplots in Author response image 2, the distribution of nucleosomes around the subtelomeric origins is similar to the distribution shown for all origins in the manuscript. We do not see the pattern of nucleosomes as described by Maree et al (PMID: 28344657) over ORC1/CDC6 binding sites in this part of the genome.

      Author response image 2.

      Metaplots showing the mean nuclesome signal over centred SNS-seq origins in subtelomeric regions. Two replicates from Maree et al 2019 (PMID: 28344657).

      We never claimed that transcription directs the localisation of the SNS-seq signal. We did not conduct experiments to address this issue. In contrast, we consider that the organisation of chromatin exerts a significant influence on the selection of active origins.

      (4) The major conclusion of the manuscript is that the SNS-seq signal corresponds very precisely to the locations of RNA-DNA hybrids (R-loops). Given all the limitations discussed above, can the authors rule out the possibility that SNS-seq is merely mapping DNA-DNA hybrids and is not, in fact, detecting origins?

      a) It is legitimate to speculate about the possibility that the very extensive overlap between SNS-seq and DRIP-seq signals within polycistronic transcription units (between ORFs) might suggest that DRIP-seq data detects nascent strands at replication origins, rather than R-loops at sites of pre-mRNA processing, as previously suggested by Briggs et al (PMID: 30304482). (eg, 'we disclosed for the first time a strong link between R-loop formation and DNA replication initiation'; 'The RNA:DNA hybrids are formed at initiation sites by RNA priming of SNS and Okazaki fragments'). However, the authors should acknowledge that alternative explanations for the localisation and potential functions of inter-CDS R-loops have been suggested,

      We do not find extensive overlap between stranded SNS-seq and DRIP-seq signal. We have observed only a minor proportion (1.7%) of the previously reported DRIP-seq signal to overlap with the origins detected by stranded SNS-seq. The RNA-primed SNS must form RNA:DNA hybrids during the initiation of DNA replication, and that an enrichment of these hybrids around the origins is expected. Therefore, we legitimately speculated that this minor proportion of RNA:DNA hybrids enriched around origin centres could be due to the origin activation.

      We agree that some of the DRIP-seq signals detected around the origins may be sites of pre-mRNA processing, as previously suggested by Briggs et al. (PMID: 30304482). Since there is no data proving implication of pre-mRNA processing into DNA replication initiation we prefer not to speculate about it.

      b) More importantly, the authors should provide experimental evidence that tests such a mechanistic prediction of R-loops and origins: for instance, have they attempted to remove R-loops, eg, by treatment with RNase H, and checked that the SNS-seq signal is unaltered? In the absence of such data, they cannot exclude the possibility that their work has revealed an overlooked problem with SNS-seq (which may not be limited to T. brucei; are matched DRIP-seq and SNS-seq datasets available to correlate these signals in a range of organisms?).

      We have not attempted RNase H treatment for a fundamental methodological reason: it seems highly improbable that RNA:DNA hybrids would persist through the multiple denaturation steps inherent to the SNS‑seq enrichment protocol. Published biophysical measurements show that RNA:DNA hybrids melt at ~95 °C (Roberts & Crothers, Science, 1992; PMID: 1279808), which is the temperature repeatedly applied during SNS isolation. Under these conditions, persistent RNA:DNA hybrids cannot remain intact and therefore cannot be responsible for the SNS‑seq peaks detected.

      We do not interpret our findings as revealing an “overlooked problem with SNS‑seq.” Instead, we consider that the enrichment of RNA:DNA hybrids around origins observed in DRIP‑seq is biologically meaningful and expected, given that replication initiation involves RNA‑primed nascent strands and that DRIP‑seq detects such structures.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I have some minor concerns that do not affect the main conclusions of the manuscript:

      (1) Figure 2B: The regions shown in the heatmap have different sizes, and I presume that the regions are ordered by size on the y-axis? If so, does the cone-shaped pattern, which is origin-less for genic regions and origin-enriched for intergenic regions, arise from the size of the regions? (I.e., for each genic region, the region itself is origin-less and the flanking intergenic regions contain origins.) If this is the case, then the peaks/valleys, centered exactly on the center of the regions on the mean frequency plots, arise from the different sizes of the analyzed regions, not from the fact that origins are mostly found at the center of intergenic regions.

      That is correct. The regions displayed in the heatmaps are genic and intergenic region sorted by size. We did not want to convey with this metaplot that the origins are accumulating at the centres of the intergenic region but mainly that genic regions are mostly devoid of origins and the intergenic regions enriched in origins.

      (2) Line 123, "and the average length of origins was found to be approximately 150 bp.": To determine origins, the authors filter away overlapping peaks and peaks that are too far from each other. Both restrict the minimal and maximal length of origins that can be observed, and this, in turn, affects the average length.

      This observation is correct. By applying filtering and setting the maximum distance between the positive and negative peaks, we are most likely affecting the average length by excluding origins that are potentially wider. Nevertheless, the violin plot shows that the majority of origins are shorter than 500 nt. In the end, the size of regions detected as the origin is not important. What gives the resolution of stranded-SNS-seq is the ability to identify the centre of the origin between the minus and plus peaks.

      (3) Data in the manuscript were sometimes not presented in an easy-to-read manner. In some cases, this was due to benign things, such as missing labels for the mean frequency plots (e.g., Figure 2B, blue and green) or very small fonts for axes (Figure 2B). Sometimes, due to the plot types that were chosen, such as pie-charts (Figure 2C, see https://medium.com/analytics-vidhya/dont-use-pie-charts-in-data-analysis-6c005723e657), stacked bar plots (Figure 6B), or showing cumulative distributions (Figure 5C, and Figure 2D) it makes it difficult to judge the actual distribution.

      Wherever possible, the size of the small fonts was increased to the maximum. Missing labels were added to the mean frequency plots. We increased the font size for the axes in the frequency plots.

      However, we found cumulative distributions useful. If you have a more specific proposal for replacing cumulative distributions, we would be very grateful to hear it. We also hope that magnifying the figures in TIFF format with a higher resolution will improve visibility.

      (4) Figure 2B: This data would be better presented with all regions stretched to the same size (the reason is explained in the public review).

      We performed the scaled plots for the stranded SNS-seq origins over the genic and intergenic regions as the reviewer suggested (see Author response image 3), but we prefer to keep the unscaled versions in the manuscript.

      Author response image 3.

      Distribution of mapped origins in scaled genic and intergenic regions. Scaled heatmaps present the distribution of the mapped origins and shuffled controls within scaled genic and intergenic regions (± 2 kb).

      (5) Line 149: "The number of origins in both cells was 148 compared using normalised mapped reads": Supplementary Figure 2D mentions that conditions were subsampled to the same amount. I would mention that explicitly in the main text ("compared using normalized, subsampled mapped reads"), as 'normalizing' would not include 'subsampling' for me. Also, I could not find the methods section that the authors refer to here.

      Thanks for the suggestion. We changed the text to make this point clearer. In the methods section, the subsampling process was referred to as 'PCF down-sampling', but we changed now the name to 'Read sub-sampling' to be more consistent in the edited version of the manuscript.

      (6) Figure 2C: I struggled to understand what gDNA stands for. Maybe it could be replaced with something like distribution in genome?

      Thanks for this suggestion. It is changed to ‘distribution in genomic sequence’.

      (7) Figure 5C: I cannot see how a G4 30 kb from an origin could be relevant. This also does not fit the scale of the author's own model at all (Figure 8).

      The main goal of Figure 5C was to demonstrate the differences between origins and the nearest G4s compared to the shuffled controls. The graph shows that 50% of the origins have a G4 within 2010 bp, whereas the median for the shuffled control is 4154 bp in the case of non-stabilised G4s. Our model is based on Figure 5D, which illustrates the enrichment of G4s and poly(dA) around the centre of origins.

      (8) Figure 6B: could be made supplementary in my opinion. All relevant data is repeated in panel D.

      It is true that Figures 6B and 6C contain some repetition. However, we would prefer to keep Figure 6B because it provides a quantification of the six indicated categories, along with the statistical tests. Figure 6B only presents the three categories that changed significantly. Figure 6D shows distribution but does not contain quantified data.

      (9) Figure 6D: This plot is repeating a lot, within single figures (Figure 6A, top) but also between figures (e.g., Figure 5D, Figure 4B). I'd prefer it if the initial plots of each figure were expanded a bit (here Figure 6A, top) to include some information from the previous figures. Then all these summary plots could be combined into a single figure at the very end (maybe still as different panels to reduce the number of lines in a single plot). Otherwise, each summary plot repeats the tracks of the previous, which becomes very repetitive.

      Our model is based on these summary plots, and we calculated the relative distances between the different elements using them. Two elements were repeated in each plot: the positions of poly(dA) and G4s. These two elements served as reference points to determine the relative positions of the other elements. Following your suggestion would result again in repetitive summary plots at the end, as one combined summary plot would be overloaded with lines and difficult to understand.

      (10) Figure 6D & Figure 7C: Both show predicted G4s; however, on the plus strand, one prediction has a two-peaked shape, the other only a single peak. Is this a mistake?

      The graphs for the predicted G4s do not have the same shape in the two plots as they were performed in different reference genomes for T. brucei. Figure 6C is in the 427-reference genome as the MNase-seq data set was analysed in this reference genome and we re-did the SNS-seq analysis and the G4 prediction in this reference genome to be able to compare them directly. In Figure 7C we are comparing origins DRIP-seq and predicted G4s, in this case all datasets could be compared in the 427-2018 reference genome.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript "Adapting Clinical Chemistry Plasma as a Source for Liquid Biopsies" addresses a timely and practical question: whether residual plasma from heparin separator tubes can serve as a source of cfDNA for molecular profiling. This idea is attractive, since such samples are routinely generated in clinical chemistry labs and would represent a vast and accessible resource for liquid biopsy applications. The preliminary results are encouraging, but in its current form, the study feels incomplete and requires additional work.

      We thank the reviewer for the encouragement and for recognizing the potential of clinical chemistry plasma as an accessible source for cfDNA-based analyses. To address concerns about incompleteness, we conducted additional controlled experiments and a more thorough literature review.

      My major concerns/suggestions are as follows:

      (1) Context and literature

      The introduction provides only limited background on prior attempts to use heparinized plasma for cfDNA work. It is well known that heparin can inhibit PCR and sequencing library preparation, which has historically discouraged its use. The authors should summarize the relevant literature more comprehensively and explain clearly why this approach has not been widely adopted until now, and how their work differs from or overcomes these earlier challenges.

      Thank you, we agree that the review of prior work requires expansion. In the revised manuscript, we expanded the introduction to focus on prior studies and their gaps (lines 53-80).

      (2) Genome-wide coverage

      The analyses focus on correlations in methylation patterns and fragmentation metrics, but there is no evaluation of sequencing coverage across the genome. For both WGS and WMS, it would be important to demonstrate whether cfDNA from heparin plasma provides unbiased coverage, or whether certain genomic regions are systematically under-represented. A comparison against coverage profiles from cell-derived DNA (e.g., PBMC genomic DNA) would help to put the results in context and assess whether the material is suitable for whole-genome applications.

      Thank you for raising this point. We agree that genome-wide coverage distributions should be evaluated alongside correlations in methylation and fragmentation metrics when assessing the effects of sample tube types.

      To address this, we pooled the five healthy subjects in the Tube Comparison Study by tube type to generate two high-depth reference BAMs (EDTA vs. heparin separator). We calculated the mean depth per 1Mb bin across Chr1-22 and normalized with z-score. Overall, the heparin separator samples showed coverage profiles comparable to the matched EDTA samples (Pearson’s r = 0.9988, Spearman’s ρ = 0.9994). The figure has now been added as Supplementary Figure 1.

      Also appreciate the suggestion to compare against gDNA. However, cfDNA and gDNA are expected to exhibit different coverage patterns because cfDNA undergoes non-random fragmentation during its generation and degradation, which makes a direct cfDNA–gDNA comparison difficult to interpret in terms of tube-related bias.

      (3) Viral detection sensitivity

      The study shows strong concordance in viral detection between EDTA and heparin samples, but the sensitivity analysis is lacking. For clinical relevance, it is critical to demonstrate how well heparin-derived plasma performs in low viral load cases. A quantitative comparison of viral read counts and genome coverage across tube types would strengthen the conclusions.

      We agree that evaluating low viral loads is important for test development. While our goal is to evaluate the repurposing of residual plasma from the heparin separator, rather than to establish the analytical sensitivity, we recruited additional paired cases (n=4) together with viral reads below 10 RPM from existing cases (n=12) and examined the correlation of viral read counts between EDTA and heparin separators in this subset. As shown in Author response image 1, viral RPM is strongly correlated between tube types (Pearson’s r = 0.93, P < 0.0001), supporting that the heparin-derived plasma yields quantitatively consistent viral reads relative to EDTA samples. We have updated our sample sheet in Supplementary Table 1 and Fig. 3 accordingly.

      Author response image 1.

      Viral load correlation in cases below 10 RPM

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors propose that leftover heparin plasma can serve as a source for cfDNA extraction, which could then be used for downstream genomic analyses such as methylation profiling, CNV detection, metagenomics, and fragmentomics. While the study is potentially of interest, several major limitations reduce its impact; for example, the study does not adequately address key methodological concerns, particularly cfDNA degradation, sequencing depth limitations, statistical rigor, and the breadth of relevant applications.

      We thank the reviewer for the insightful comments. In the revised manuscript, we added controlled experiments specifically designed to address the concerns regarding cfDNA degradation. We have also addressed other concerns in the responses below.

      Strengths:

      The paper provides a cheap method to extract cfDNA, which has broad application if the method is solid.

      We thank the reviewer for the encouraging comment.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The introduction lacks a sufficient review of prior work. The authors do not adequately summarize existing studies on cfDNA extraction, particularly those comparing heparin plasma and EDTA plasma. This omission weakens the rationale for their study and overlooks important context.

      Thank you for this important point. We have expanded the introduction to include a thorough review of relevant prior studies (lines 53-80).

      (2) The evaluation of cfDNA degradation from heparin plasma is incomplete. The authors did not compare cfDNA integrity with that extracted from EDTA plasma under realistic sample handling conditions. Their analysis (lines 90-93) focuses only on immediate extraction, which is not representative of clinical workflows where delays are common. This is in direct conflict with findings from Barra et al. (2025, LabMed), who showed that cfDNA from heparin plasma is substantially more degraded than that from EDTA plasma. A systematic comparison of cfDNA yields and fragment sizes under delayed extraction conditions would be necessary to validate the feasibility of their proposed approach.

      The concern about degradation is very reasonable based on the literature. In the revised manuscript, we added a controlled experiment mimicking the real-world clinical specimens unprocessed at room temperature.

      In the controlled experiment with delayed processing, paired EDTA and heparin separator tubes from the same blood draw from 6 volunteers were processed with the first soft spin (1600g 10min) after room temperature or 4°C delays (0, 1, 3, and 24 hours) to simulate the real-world delayed processing at the inpatient hospital setting, and then the original tubes were kept in 4°C for a week before the second spin (16000g 10min) to simulate the delayed processing at the research laboratory (Fig. 2). This simulation cannot mimic the outpatient or remote clinic setting that requires transportation. Therefore, we noted this caveat in the Discussion and Abstract.

      From our results, EDTA samples remained largely stable across all test settings (Author response image 2). In contrast, heparin separator tubes held at room temperature showed a clear time-dependent shift in fragmentation, with the most pronounced degradation at 24 hours. Importantly, heparin separator samples processed within a short pre-centrifugation window (for example, within 3 hours) and maintained refrigerated thereafter showed only minimal changes relative to the time 0 controls (Author response image 3). We have updated the Discussion to emphasize this short window plus refrigeration condition as a practical boundary for fragmentomics in heparin separator tubes.

      We addressed the work of Barra et al. (2025, LabMed) in the introduction. In that study, whole blood in heparin tubes was first soft spun and then incubated at 37°C for 24 hours, leading to severe DNA fragmentation. Our data agrees: two matched 37°C, 24-hour pairs of samples produced similar severe fragmentation in heparinized blood (Author response image 4). However, this is not representative of routine (Stanford/UCSF) clinical transport and processing. We revised the manuscript to emphasize that heparin separator tubes are most suitable for downstream cfDNA fragmentomic analyses when the pre-centrifugation interval is minimized and samples are maintained refrigerated before processing whenever feasible.

      Author response image 2.

      Size distribution and end motif rank concordance in EDTA tubes across conditions. Left panels show fragment size distributions. The right panels show the corresponding scatter plots comparing end-motif abundance rankings between conditions. E0, EDTA processed immediately; E4T24, EDTA incubated at 4°C for 24 h; ERT24, EDTA incubated at room temperature for 24 h.

      Author response image 3.

      Size distribution and end motif rank concordance in Heparin separators across conditions. Left panels show fragment size distributions. The right panels show scatter plots comparing end-motif abundance rankings between conditions. H0, heparin processed immediately; H4T1/H4T3/H4T24, heparin incubated at 4°C for 1, 3, or 24 h; HRT1/HRT2/HRT3/HRT24, heparin incubated at room temperature for 1, 2, 3, or 24 h.

      Author response image 4.

      Size distribution and end motif rank concordance in extreme incubation conditions. Left panels show fragment size distributions. The right panels show scatter plots comparing end-motif abundance rankings between conditions. H0, heparin processed immediately; H37T24, heparin incubated at 37°C for 24 h.

      (3) The comparison of methylation profiles suffers from the same limitation. The authors do not account for cfDNA degradation and the resulting reduced input material, which in turn affects sequencing depth and data quality. As shown by Barra et al., quantifying cfDNA yield and displaying these data in a figure would strengthen the analysis. Moreover, the statistical method applied is inappropriate: the authors use Pearson correlation when Spearman correlation would be more robust to outliers and thus more suitable for methylation and other genomic comparisons.

      We appreciate the reasonable concerns regarding cfDNA degradation and agree that the methylation profile is not a metric for degradation. This point regarding measuring degradation is addressed with new experiments and in our above response to comment (2). We appreciate the suggestion to use Spearman correlation, and we have now incorporated Spearman’s ρ into the updated figures.

      (4) The CNV analysis also raises concerns. With low-coverage WGS (~5X) from heparin-derived cfDNA, only large CNVs (>100 kb) are reliably detectable. The authors used a 500 kb bin size for CNV calling, but they did not acknowledge this as a limitation. Evaluating CNV detection at multiple bin sizes (e.g., 1 kb, 10 kb, 50 kb, 100 kb, 250 kb) would provide a more complete picture. In addition, Figure 3 presents CNV results from only one sample, which risks bias. Similar bias would exist for illustrations of CNVs from other samples in the supplementary figures provided by the authors. Again, Spearman correlation should be applied in Figure 3c, where clear outliers are visible.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s constructive comments regarding the CNV analysis. We added an analysis using 50kb as the bin size (data uploaded to Zenodo). Across matched CNV-positive samples, the CNV patterns remained consistent across tube types, while the expected higher noise was observed. We did not extend the bin size to 1-10kb because at ~5x coverage, such resolution would mainly be noise, rendering the results uninterpretable for CNV calling.We agree that illustrative examples alone are insufficient and that quantitative measures are required. To address this concern, we evaluated concordance across all paired cases by measuring the copy ratio and calculating the Spearman correlation (Fig. 4b). CNV-positive samples had high concordance (n = 6, Spearman’s ρ=0.72-0.96) between tube types and were used primarily for interpretation. Low correlations in CNV-negative samples are not unexpected and were not used for interpretation. In these samples, log2 ratios across all bins cluster tightly around zero in both tube types. Correlation coefficients are highly sensitive to minor fluctuations, thus not informative of biological concordance.

      (5) It is important to point out that depth-based CNV calling is just one of the CNV calling methods. Other CNV calling software using SNVs, pair-reads, split-reads, and coverage depth for calling CNV, such as the software Conserting, would be severely affected by the low-quality WGS data. The authors need to evaluate at least two different software with specific algorithms for CNV calling based on current WGS data.

      We appreciate this suggestion. We used another popular and independent CNV caller, CNVkit, in addition to ichorCNA. Although both methods use sequencing depth, they differ in their segmentation algorithm. ichorCNA uses a hidden Markov model-based segmentation optimized for low-pass cfDNA WGS, whereas CNVkit uses circular binary segmentation by default and works well with targeted panels. The CNVkit results are also consistent across different tube types. We have added the CNVkit results to Supplementary Fig. 3.

      (6) The authors omit an important application of cfDNA: somatic mutation detection. Degraded cfDNA and reduced sequencing depth could substantially impact SNV calling accuracy in terms of both recall and precision. Assessing this aspect with their current dataset would provide a more comprehensive evaluation of heparin plasma-derived cfDNA for genomic analyses.

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting somatic SNV detection as an important cfDNA application. Robust SNV benchmarking typically requires larger plasma input and substantially deeper, targeted sequencing than is feasible with remnant chemistry specimens. In routine workflows, chemistry testing leaves only ~0.5–2 mL residual plasma per tube, which limits the achievable depth for sensitive SNV calling. We have added this limitation to the Abstract and the Discussion (lines 281-285) and clarified that our goal is to repurpose heparin separator residual plasma as a complementary resource to expand biobanking, rather than to replace collection protocols optimized for mutation testing.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The manuscript does not seem to have been edited thoroughly prior to submission. For example, at lines 94-97, the line spacing is double, which is apparently different from the other surrounding lines. In addition, Figure 5a contains a wrong label of "|y=x" at its top. Figure 5b strongly suggests that Spearman, but not Pearson correlation, should be appropriate for the analysis.

      We thank the reviewer for carefully noting these formatting and labeling issues. Corrections for all points are made in the revised version.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This manuscript investigates the biological mechanism underlying the assembly and transport of the AcrAB-TolC efflux pump complex. By combining endogenous protein purification with cryo-EM analysis, the authors show that the AcrB trimer adopts three distinct conformations simultaneously and identify a previously uncharacterized lipoprotein, YbjP, as a potential additional component of the complex. The work aims to advance our understanding of the AcrAB-TolC efflux system in near-native conditions and may have broader implications for elucidating its physiological mechanism.

      Strengths:

      Overall, the manuscript is clearly presented, and several of the datasets are of high quality. The use of natively isolated complexes is a major strength, as it minimizes artifacts associated with reconstituted systems and enables the discovery of a novel subunit. The authors also distinguish two major assemblies-the TolC-YbjP sub-complex and the complete pump-which appear to correspond to the closed and open channel states, respectively. The conceptual advance is potentially meaningful, and the findings could be of broad interest to the field.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) As the identification of YbjP is a key contribution of this work, a deeper comparison with functional "anchor" proteins in other efflux pumps is needed. Including an additional Supplementary Figure illustrating these structural comparisons would be valuable.

      We have expanded the comparative analysis between YbjP and established anchoring or accessory components in other efflux pumps, and we have added Supplementary Figure S3 to illustrate these structural relationships.

      (2) The observation of the LTO states in the presence of TolC represents an important extension of previous findings. A more detailed discussion comparing these LTO states to those reported in earlier structural and biochemical studies would improve the clarity and significance of this point.

      In the revised manuscript we have expanded our discussion of the LTO conformations, including a direct comparison with previously reported structural and biochemical observations, to better contextualize the significance of our findings.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This manuscript reports the high-resolution cryo-EM structures of the endogenous TolC-YbjP-AcrABZ complex and a TolC-YbjP subcomplex from E. coli, identifying a novel accessory subunit. This work is an impressive effort that provides valuable structural insights into this native complex.

      Strengths:

      (1) The study successfully determines the structure of the complete, endogenously purified complex, marking a significant achievement.

      (2) The identification of a previously unknown accessory subunit is an important finding.

      (3) The use of cryo-EM to resolve the complex, including potential post-translational modifications such as N-palmitoyl and S-diacylglycerol, is a notable highlight.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Clarity and Interpretation: Several points need clarification. Additionally, the description of the sample preparation method, which is a key strength, is currently misplaced and should be introduced earlier.

      We have reorganized the text to introduce the sample preparation strategy earlier and clarify the points that may cause ambiguity.

      (2) Data Presentation: The manuscript would benefit significantly from improved figures.

      We agree and have revised the figures to improve clarity, consistency, and readability. Additional schematic illustrations have been included.

      (3) Supporting Evidence: The inclusion of the protein purification profile as a supplementary figure is essential. Furthermore, a discussion comparing the endogenous AcrB structure to those obtained in other systems (e.g., liposomes) and commenting on observed lipid densities would strengthen the overall analysis.

      We appreciate these suggestions. We added the purification profile to Supplementary Figure S1 and expanded the comparison between our endogenous AcrB structure and previously reported structures from reconstituted systems, including a more detailed discussion of lipid densities.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript "Structural mechanisms of pump assembly and drug transport in the AcrAB-TolC efflux system" by Ge et al. describes the identification of a previously uncharacterized lipoprotein, YbjP, as a novel partner of the well-studied Enterobacterial tripartite efflux pump AcrAB-TolC. The authors present cryo-electron microscopy structures of the TolC-YbjP subcomplex and the complete AcrABZ-TolC-YbjP assembly. While the identification and structural characterization of YbjP are potentially novel, the stated focus of the manuscript-mechanisms of pump assembly and drug transport - is not sufficiently addressed. The manuscript requires reframing to emphasize the principal novelty associated with YbjP and significant development of the other aspects, especially the claimed novelty of the AcrB drug-efflux cycle.

      Strengths:

      The reported association of YbjP with AcrAB-TolC is novel; however, a recent deposition of a preceding and much more detailed manuscript to the BioRxiv server (Horne et al., https://doi.org/10.1101/2025.03.19.644130) removes much of the immediate novelty.

      Weaknesses:

      While the identification of YbjP is novel, the authors do not appear to acknowledge the precedence of another work (Horne et al., 2025), and it is not cited within the correct context in the manuscript.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point regarding the independent nature of our work.

      Our study indeed progressed independently. The process began with our purification of an endogenous protein sample containing the AcrAB-TolC efflux pump. During our cryo-EM analysis, we observed an unassigned density in the map, for which we built a preliminary main-chain model. A subsequent search of structural databases, including AlphaFold predictions, allowed us to identify this density as the protein YbjP. It was only after this identification that we became aware of the related preprint by Horne et al. on BioRxiv (Posted March 19, 2025).

      Therefore, our structural determination of YbjP was conducted entirely independently. We fully acknowledge and respect the work by Horne et al. and have already cited their preprint in our manuscript. While their detailed structural data, maps, and coordinates were not publicly available as of March 13, 2026, we have described their findings appropriately. We agree that our manuscript can better reflect this context and will carefully check for any missing citations to ensure that their contribution is properly and clearly acknowledged.

      We also believe that the two studies are mutually complementary and collectively reinforce the emerging understanding of YbjP.

      Several results presented in the TolC-YbjP section do not represent new findings regarding TolC structure itself.

      We agree that the TolC features we describe are consistent with previously reported structural characteristics. However, these observations could only be confirmed in the context of the newly determined TolC–YbjP subcomplex, which was not available prior to this study. We have clarified this point in the revision to avoid overstating novelty.

      The structure and gating behaviour of TolC should be more thoroughly introduced in the Introduction, including prior work describing channel opening and conformational transitions.

      We appreciate this suggestion and agree that a more comprehensive overview of TolC gating and conformational transitions will strengthen the Introduction. We have revised the text to incorporate relevant prior structural and functional studies.

      The current manuscript does not discuss the mechanistic role of helices H3/H4 and H7/H8 in channel dilation, despite implying that YbjP binding may influence these features.

      Thank you for this comment. The primary novel contributions of this manuscript are the identification of YbjP and the structural characterization of AcrB in three distinct states. The discussion of the dilation mechanism, while included because we observed the closed TolC-YbjP state, is a secondary point. In the revised manuscript, we have expanded this discussion as suggested.

      Only the original closed TolC structure is cited, and the manuscript does not address prior mutational studies involving the D396 region, though this residue is specifically highlighted in the presented structures.

      We appreciate the reviewer drawing attention to this oversight. We have added citations to the relevant mutational and mechanistic studies, including those involving the D396 region, and more clearly discussed these findings in relation to our structural observations.

      The manuscript provides only a general structural alignment between the closed TolC-YbjP subcomplex and the open TolC observed in the full pump assembly. However, multiple open, closed, and intermediate conformations of AcrAB-TolC have already been reported. Thus, YbjP alone cannot be assumed to account for TolC channel gating. A systematic comparison with existing structures is necessary to determine whether YbjP contributes any distinct allosteric modulation.

      We agree with the reviewer’s assessment and appreciate the constructive suggestion. In our revised manuscript, we have expanded the structural comparison to include previously reported open, closed, and intermediate AcrAB–TolC conformations. This expanded analysis will more clearly position our findings within the existing structural framework.

      The analysis of AcrB peristaltic action is superficial, poorly substantiated and importantly, not novel. Several references to the ATP-synthase cycle have been provided, but this has been widely established already some 20 years ago - e.g. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.1131542.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. We fully acknowledge the foundational studies that established the AcrB functional cycle and its analogy to the ATP-synthase mechanism. While previous work indeed defined the LTO (Loose, Tight, Open) cycle of AcrB, those structures were obtained using AcrB in isolation. In contrast, our endogenous sample, which includes the native constraints of AcrA from above and the presence of AcrZ, reveals conformational changes in the transmembrane and porter domains that differ from those previously reported. We interpret these differences as reflecting a more physiologically relevant mechanism. In our revision, we provided a detailed discussion to contextualize these distinctions within the existing literature.

      The most significant limitation of the study is the absence of functional characterization of YbjP in vivo or in vitro. While the structural association between YbjP and TolC is interesting, the biological role of YbjP remains unclear.

      To explore the potential physiological role of YbjP, we compared the viability of a ΔybjP mutant in the E. coli C600 background with that of the wild-type C600 strain under ciprofloxacin (CIP) stress. However, we did not observe a detectable difference in survival between the two strains under the tested conditions. This result is consistent with the assay reported in the preprint mentioned by the reviewer, although the stress conditions used in that study differ from ours.

      Author response image 1.

      To further address this point, we have added a new Supplementary Figure S3 comparing outer membrane proteins with structural and functional similarities to TolC. As shown in this analysis, many such proteins contain an extracellular loop that appears to help anchor or stabilize them within the outer membrane. Notably, TolC lacks such a loop, whereas YbjP contains a corresponding loop region, suggesting that YbjP may potentially play a role in stabilizing or positioning TolC in the outer membrane.

      While our current experiments did not reveal a clear phenotype under CIP stress, the structural observations still suggest that YbjP may have a physiological role. We have therefore expanded the Discussion to more carefully consider possible functional implications of YbjP and to explicitly acknowledge the limitations of the present study regarding its physiological characterization.

      Moreover, the manuscript does not examine structural differences between the presented complex and previously solved AcrAB-TolC or MexAB-OprM assemblies that might support a mechanistic model.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. We now provide a more detailed comparative analysis with previously reported AcrAB–TolC and MexAB–OprM structures, highlighting both similarities and key differences.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) To address the probable role of YbjP, performing 3D variability analysis on the sub-complex and the complete complex would help clarify whether YbjP participates in channel opening and closing.

      YbjP does not participate in the opening or closing of the TolC channel. Indeed, the structure of TolC shows no conformational changes upon YbjP binding when compared to the free, closed form of TolC. The structural transition between the closed and open states of TolC has been thoroughly reviewed by Alav et al. (Chem. Rev. 2021).

      Although the particles for the two reconstructions were obtained from the same dataset, inspection of the raw micrographs and the corresponding 2D class averages clearly shows that the particles fall into two distinct populations: one containing only the TolC–YbjP sub-complex and the other containing the full AcrABZ–TolC–YbjP assembly. In other words, the particles correspond to two different complexes, distinguished by the absence or presence of the AcrABZ components, rather than representing two conformational states of a single complex.

      Three-dimensional variability analysis (3DVA) is most appropriate for analyzing structural heterogeneity arising from continuous or discrete conformational changes within the same macromolecular assembly. Because the heterogeneity in our dataset primarily reflects compositional differences between two assemblies rather than conformational variability within a single complex, we believe that applying 3DVA would not be appropriate for this dataset.

      (2) In addition to the above points, a few minor revisions would improve clarity and readability. Some of the representative density maps in the supplementary figures could be refined for clarity. Adjusting formatting elements (e.g., dashed line thickness) may improve visual presentation.

      Supplementary Figures S2, S5, and S6 have been redrawn to reduce the excessive thickness of the density map representations for better visualization.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      In this manuscript, Xiaofei and colleagues report the high-resolution cryo-EM structure of the TolC-YbjP-AcrABZ complex, as well as the structure of a subcomplex containing only TolC and YbjP. Additionally, they identify a previously unidentified accessory subunit that plays a role in the function of this complex. Overall, this represents an impressive effort in determining the complete endogenous complex from E. coli and performing systematic analyses. I have a few questions regarding the manuscript:

      (1) The authors use the term "native" several times (e.g., lines 24, 73, 157, 256) to refer to the complex reported here. This may cause confusion, given the use of detergent to extract endogenous complexes from E. coli. They should consider excluding the possibility that the subcomplex was formed during the purification process. The term "endogenous" should suffice in this context.

      We have replaced “native” with “endogenous”.

      (2) Lines 26-28: The phrase "its protomers" may lead to ambiguity, as it could refer to either YbjP or TolC.

      The sentence has been updated to “…bridging the TolC protomers at their equatorial domain.”

      (3) Lines 50-51: The text suggests that the assembly of AcrA and AcrB triggers TolC's transition from a closed to an open conformation. Please clarify this point.

      The introduction (lines 50-51) has been expanded to describe the assembly of TolC and AcrAB, as well as the gating transition between the closed and open states of TolC.

      (4) Lines 57-59: Using cryo-EM may get the low-to-medium resolution map, but not using low-to-medium resolution cryo-EM.

      The sentence has been changed to … prior studies using crystallography and cryo-EM have revealed low-to-medium resolution snapshots of the assembled pump.

      (5) Line 73: The authors should consider briefly introducing how they prepared the samples for cryo-EM structural studies, as this is a highlight of the manuscript.

      A detailed, multi-step purification protocol has been added as Supplementary Figure S1A to illustrate the sample preparation procedure.

      (6) Lines 77-82: The authors should label these structural features in the corresponding figures for easier reference, particularly clarifying which part refers to the "equatorial domain."

      We have labeled these structural features in the corresponding figures for clarity, and specifically indicated which region corresponds to the equatorial domain.

      (7) Lines 92-93: The first α-helix of TolC is unclear; the authors should indicate the corresponding residues of this helix in the main text. Additionally, it would be beneficial to illustrate the interface in a figure for easier access.

      We have specified the residues corresponding to the participating α-helix of TolC in the main text and illustrated the interaction interface in a figure (Figure 1F) for better visualization.

      (8) Lines 99-100: Did the authors observe additional density for N-palmitoyl and S-diacylglycerol modifications in their cryo-EM density map? If so, they should highlight this in a figure to demonstrate the importance of these modifications.

      The N-palmitoyl and S-diacylglycerol modifications are embedded in the outer membrane but lack a consistent location within it. As a result, they were averaged out during cryo-EM reconstruction and are not visible in our final map.

      (9) Line 122: Please indicate the 33 nm height in the figure.

      The 33 nm height is composed of a 14 nm TolC channel, a 14 nm periplasmic portion of AcrAB, and a 5 nm transmembrane portion of AcrB, which has been added to the right side of Figure 2B.

      (10) Lines 123-124: This sentence feels out of place. It would be more appropriate to move it to another location, such as the beginning of the Results section, to introduce how the samples were prepared.

      This sentence has been moved to the section “Structure of a TolC–YbjP closed-state complex” to describe the sample preparation.

      (11) Lines 127-128: This section needs to be rewritten for improved clarity.

      This sentence has been rewritten as “This tripartite architecture is stabilized by three distinct sets of interfaces: (i) contacts between the AcrB trimer and the basal regions of AcrA, (ii) extensive AcrA–AcrA lateral interactions within the hexameric ring, and (iii) tip-to-tip junctions formed between the upper AcrA α-helical hairpin and the periplasmic entrance of TolC (Figure 2D).”

      (12) Line 141: Please define terms like DN, DC, PN, and PC upon their first use.

      DN and DC (denoting the N- and C-terminal subdomains of the docking domain), PN and PC (named for the N- and C-terminal subdomains of the periplasmic (porter) domain) have been defined where they first appear in the text.

      (13) The lα helix of AcrB is at least partially buried in the membrane (Liu H. et al, PNAS 2025). The authors should consider including this information in their figures, particularly Figure 2B and Figure 5. As the complex is endogenously purified, are there any differences in AcrB compared to those observed in liposomes, SMALP, or vesicles? Did the authors observe significant lipid densities?

      A structural comparison of the AcrB holocomplex with an AcrB structure determined in the native membrane environment (PDB: 9DXN) has been added as Supplementary Figure S8D. In the transmembrane region of AcrB, some sausage-like densities were observed; however, lipid molecules were not modelled in the study.

      (14) The protein purification profile should be included, at least as a supplementary figure.

      The protein purification profile has been added to Supplementary Figure S1A.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) The identification and structural characterization of YbjP as a novel TolC-associated lipoprotein is potentially interesting, and the cryo-EM structures of the TolC-YbjP subcomplex and the complete pump assembly represent a solid starting point. However, the manuscript currently does not sufficiently support the broader mechanistic conclusions implied by the title regarding pump assembly and drug transport. To strengthen the work, the manuscript would benefit from being refocused to highlight the novelty of YbjP, while also providing a clearer mechanistic rationale for its functional role.

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful comment. We have revised the manuscript to better highlight the novel features of YbjP and provide a clearer mechanistic explanation for its function.

      Most Gram-negative TolC homologs, including P. aeruginosa OprM and E. coli CusC, carry native lipid anchors that attach them to the outer membrane. However, E. coli TolC lacks this N-terminal lipidation site. We propose that YbjP, a dually lipidated protein modified with N-palmitoyl and S-diacylglycerol groups, tethers TolC to the outer membrane and functionally replaces the intrinsic lipid anchors found in other outer membrane factors.

      To support this mechanism, we have added Supplementary Figure S3, which compares the anchoring domains of six representative outer membrane components of efflux pumps.

      (2) The structural features and gating dynamics of TolC should be more thoroughly introduced, including prior work describing channel dilation and helix movements (e.g., PMID: 18406332; PMID: 21245342), and the manuscript should discuss how YbjP may influence these known conformational transitions. The relevance of the D396 region should also be considered in the context of previous mutational analyses (e.g., PMID: 32850959).

      All citations mentioned have been added. Indeed, the structure of TolC shows no conformational changes upon YbjP binding when compared to the free, closed form of TolC.

      (3) Structural interpretation of the YbjP-containing complexes needs to be strengthened by comparison with the extensive library of available AcrAB-TolC structures in open, closed, and intermediate states (e.g., PMID: 28355133; PMID: 24747401; PMID: 34506732). Such analysis is necessary to determine whether YbjP contributes any distinct allosteric or conformational effects.

      YbjP binds to the equatorial domain of TolC, distant from the tip of its coiled-coil helices. This binding therefore does not interfere with TolC’s functional role, but rather helps anchor TolC within the outer membrane in the correct orientation.

      (4) The speculations regarding the peristaltic nature of AcrB cycling as currently presented in the text and Figure 4 lack novelty and currently reiterate well-established AcrB L/T/O states without offering insight into how YbjP might influence long-range communication within the complex.

      We thank the reviewer for this valuable comment. We agree that the functional rotation mechanism of AcrB with loose, tight and open states has been well documented in previous work.

      In our endogenous intact complex, however, we identified substantial conformational changes in both the porter and transmembrane domains of AcrB that were not observed in earlier isolated structures. To highlight these differences, we have added Supplementary Figure S8 to compare our AcrB structure with all previously reported conformational states.

      On the basis of these structural observations, we have proposed a distinct drug efflux mechanism, which is now described in detail in the revised manuscript.

      (5) Specific clarification is needed regarding the proposed pathway by which YbjP could modulate AcrA or AcrB, given the spatial separation observed in the structures.

      YbjP binds to the equatorial domain of TolC, which has no effect on AcrA or AcrB.

      (6) The manuscript currently lacks functional validation of YbjP, either in vivo or in vitro. Incorporating even basic assays to test YbjP's contribution to efflux function, pump assembly, or antibiotic resistance would significantly enhance the conclusions.

      To explore the potential physiological role of YbjP, we compared the viability of a ΔybjP mutant in the E. coli C600 background with that of the wild-type C600 strain under ciprofloxacin (CIP) stress. However, we did not observe a detectable difference in survival between the two strains under the tested conditions. This result is consistent with the assay reported in the preprint mentioned by the reviewer, although the stress conditions used in that study differ from ours. (See Author response image 1).

      To further address this point, we have added a new Supplementary Figure (Fig. S3) comparing outer membrane proteins with structural and functional similarities to TolC. As shown in this analysis, many such proteins contain an extracellular N-terminal loop that appears to help anchor or stabilize them within the outer membrane. Notably, TolC lacks such a loop, whereas YbjP contains a corresponding loop region, suggesting that YbjP may potentially play a role in stabilizing or positioning TolC in the outer membrane.

      While our current experiments did not reveal a clear phenotype under CIP stress, the structural observations still suggest that YbjP may have a physiological role. We have therefore expanded the Discussion to more carefully consider possible functional implications of YbjP and to explicitly acknowledge the limitations of the present study regarding its physiological characterization.

      (7) The relationship to the prior BioRxiv work by Horne et al. (March 19, 2025) should be discussed more directly, particularly because it reports the same YbjP-TolC association across two different efflux systems and includes higher-resolution structures and functional evidence. The current citation should be revised to accurately acknowledge the precedence and overlap in findings.

      We thank the reviewer for this important suggestion. We have adjusted the citation to earlier in the manuscript to properly acknowledge the work by Horne et al.

      We fully agree that a direct comparison between our structures and those reported by Horne et al. would be highly valuable. However, although nearly a year has passed since the preprint was posted, their atomic coordinates have not been released in the Protein Data Bank. No detailed structural coordinates or models are provided in the preprint itself, which prevents us from performing a meaningful, structure-based comparison with our own data at this stage.

      (8) The references used to support statements on allosteric pump activation (e.g., lines 182-183) should be updated to include more relevant full-complex studies (e.g., PMID: 28355133; PMID: 33009415; PMID: 33909410), and the manuscript should more clearly articulate any proposed mechanism for signal transmission involving YbjP.

      The citations have been added.

      YbjP does not participate in the opening or closing of the TolC channel. Indeed, the structure of TolC shows no conformational changes upon YbjP binding when compared to the free, closed form of TolC.

      (9) Overall, while the structural identification of YbjP is noteworthy, additional functional data and more rigorous structural comparison are needed to substantiate the proposed model of pump assembly and drug transport. Reframing the manuscript to emphasize the novelty of YbjP and clarifying its potential mechanistic role would strengthen the work significantly.

      We refer the reviewer to our earlier response for additional functional data. We have added Supplementary Figure S8 to compare our AcrB structure with all previously reported conformational states.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Witte et al. examined whether canonical behavioral functions attributed to the cerebellum decline with age. To test this, they recruited younger, old, and older-old adults in a comprehensive battery of tasks previously identified as cerebellar-dependent in the literature. Remarkably, they found that cerebellar function is largely preserved across the lifespan-and in some cases even enhanced. Structural imaging confirmed that their older adult cohort was representative in terms of both cerebellar gray- and white-matter volume. Overall, this is an important study with strong theoretical implications and convincing evidence supporting the motor reserve hypothesis, demonstrating that cerebellar-dependent measures remain largely intact with aging.

      Strengths:

      (1) Relatively large sample size.

      (2) Most comprehensive behavioral battery to date assessing cerebellar-dependent behavior.

      (3) Structural MRI confirmation of age-related decline in cerebellar gray and white matter, ensuring representativeness of the sample.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Although the authors note this was outside the study's scope, the absence of a voxel-based morphometry (VBM) analysis limits anatomical and functional specificity. Such an analysis would clarify which functions are cerebellar-dependent rather than solely inferring this from prior neuropsychological literature.

      (2) As acknowledged in the Discussion, task classification (cerebellar-dependent vs. general measures) remains somewhat ambiguous. Some "general" measures may still rely on cerebellar processes based on the paper's own criteria - for example, tasks in which individuals with cerebellar degeneration show impairments.

      (3) Cerebellar-dependent and general measures may inherently differ in measurement noise, potentially biasing results toward detecting effects in general measures but not in cerebellar-dependent ones.

      We appreciate Reviewer #1's positive assessment of the study, including the acknowledgment of our large sample size, comprehensive behavioral battery, and verification of cerebellar atrophy using MRI. We address the concerns raised as follows:

      (1) Voxel-based morphometry (VBM) and anatomical specificity

      We agree that VBM would strengthen anatomical specificity. As noted in our response to private comments, we have carried out these analyses as part of a separate dedicated study, now available as a preprint (“Aging is associated with uniform structural decline across cerebellar regions while preserving topological organization and showing no relation with sensorimotor function”, https://doi.org/10.64898/2026.02.13.705695). This work investigates region-level cerebellar aging and its relationship with behavior in detail, including both anatomical and functional parcellations. In short, the preprint demonstrates the absence of structure-function relationship between cerebellar regions (from either anatomical or functional atlases) and cerebellar function. Given the scope of the present manuscript, which focuses primarily on behavioral evidence for cerebellar preservation, we chose not to expand this paper further with VBM results.

      (2) Task classification and cerebellar involvement

      We clarified in the revised manuscript that even “general” measures likely involve cerebellar processing to some extent. We have strengthened the discussion explaining that these measures do not primarily depend on cerebellar function, in contrast to the cerebellar-specific metrics derived from established models (e.g., clock variance in rhythmic tapping). We now explicitly caution against interpreting these general measures as cerebellar-independent.

      (3) Measurement noise and differential sensitivity

      To address the reviewer’s concern that measurement noise may differ between task categories, we now report split-half reliabilities for all measures in the Supplement. These data demonstrate no systematic reliability disadvantage for cerebellar-specific tasks that could explain the pattern of results.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors are investigating cerebellar-mediated motor behaviors in a large sample of adults, including 30 individuals over the age of 80 (a great strength of this work). They employed a large battery of motor tasks that are tied to cerebellar function, in addition to a cognitive task and motor tasks that are more general. They also evaluated cerebellar structure. Across their behavioral metrics, they found that even with cerebellar degeneration, cerebellar-mediated motor behavior remained intact relative to young adults. However, this was not the case for measures not directly tied to cerebellar function. The authors suggest that these functions are preserved and speak to the resiliency and redundancy of function in the cerebellum. They also speculate that cerebellar circuits may be especially good for preserving function in the face of structural change. The tasks are described very well, and their implementation is also well-done with consideration for rigor in the data collection and processing. The inclusion of Bayesian estimates is also particularly useful, given the theoretically important lack of age differences reported. This work is methodologically rigorous with respect to the behavior, and certainly thought-provoking.

      Strengths:

      The methodological rigor, inclusion of Bayesian statistics, and the larger sample of individuals over the age of 80 in particular are all great strengths of this work. Further, as noted in the text, the fact that all participants completed the full testing battery is of great benefit.

      Weaknesses:

      The suggestion of cerebellar reserve, given that at the group level there is a lack of difference for cerebellar-specific behavioral components, could be more robustly tested. That is, the authors suggest that this is a reserve given that the volume of cerebellar gray matter is smaller in the two older groups, though behavior is preserved. This implies volume and behavior are seemingly dissociated. However, there is seemingly a great deal of behavioral variability within each group and likewise with respect to cerebellar volume. Is poorer behavior associated with smaller volume? If so, this would still suggest that volume and behavior are linked, but rather than being age that is critical, it is volume. On the flip side, a lack of associations between behavior and volume would be quite compelling with respect to reserve. More generally, as explicated in the recommendations, there are analyses that could be conducted that, in my opinion, would more robustly support their arguments given the data that they have available. This is a well-executed and thought-provoking investigation, but there is also room for a bit more discussion.

      We appreciate Reviewer’s recognition of the methodological rigor of the study. The public review focuses on the structure-function relationship for the cerebellum. Given that the volume of the cerebellum is smaller in older adults but that the identified cerebellar function are maintained, we conclude that there is no structure-function relationship. We agree with the reviewer that this could be tested further by looking at different parcellations of the cerebellum and demonstrating the absence of association between smaller regions of the cerebellum and the investigated cerebellar function. We agree with the reviewer that this is interesting but believe that this goes beyond the scope of this already extensive paper. For this reason, detailed analyses of the structure-function relationship are available in the preprint version of another paper entitled “Aging is associated with uniform structural decline across cerebellar regions while preserving topological organization and showing no relation with sensorimotor function”, (https://doi.org/10.64898/2026.02.13.705695). In this preprint, across multiple anatomical and functional parcellations, we found no meaningful association between cerebellar structure and cerebellar-specific behavioral measures.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Prefacing these suggestions, I want to commend the authors for undertaking this Herculean effort, recruiting such a large sample and administering an extensive battery of tasks. This is an impressively comprehensive study!

      (1) Lesion-symptom mapping. The authors state that lesion-symptom mapping was beyond the scope of the study, but it is unclear why such an analysis could not be performed. Including it would strengthen inferences linking cerebellar structure to behavioral outcomes and help differentiate cerebellar-specific from general performance measures.

      (2) Inter-measure correlations. For cerebellar-dependent tasks, did the authors examine correlations among behavioral measures? If cerebellar aging effects are relatively uniform across the cerebellar cortex, performance across tasks engaging distinct cerebellar regions should, in theory, covary. Similar pairwise correlations for general measures could provide a useful comparison.

      1 + 2: We fully agree with this two points; however, we decided to address this analysis in a separate paper. In the current manuscript, our primary focus was on the behavioral aspects, as these are already quite extensive on their own. In our subsequent work, we conducted an in-depth investigation into the relationship between cerebellar-specific measures and cerebellar structure across distinct cerebellar regions (including anatomical regions and functionally defined regions according to the atlas of Nettekoven et al., 2024). We found that aging does not affect the cerebellum uniformly, but that some anatomical regions exhibit stronger age effects. For the functionally defined regions the age effects were uniformly though. There was no relation between behavioral cerebellar-specific measures and regional gray matter structure.

      In this second paper we also analyzed inter-measure correlations between behavioral cerebellar-specific measures. We did not find any correlations between cerebellar outcomes of different tasks, which indeed could indicate that the different tasks engage distinct cerebellar regions. In addition, we did not find any relation between cerebellar outcomes and anatomically or functionally defined cerebellar regions.

      You can find a preprint of the second manuscript entitled “Aging is associated with uniform structural decline across cerebellar regions while preserving topological organization and showing no relation with sensorimotor function” here: https://doi.org/10.64898/2026.02.13.705695

      (3) Measurement sensitivity. Could differences in age effects reflect varying measurement noise between cerebellar-specific and general measures? For instance, even among younger participants, cerebellar-related measures (e.g., slope in mental rotation) might exhibit greater variability - given that they depend on more conditions, each with its own noise - than general metrics (e.g., baseline motor variability or choice reaction time estimated from a single condition). This could affect sensitivity to detect age-related change and bias results toward finding effects in general rather than cerebellar-specific measures.

      To address this concern, we computed split-half reliability for both cerebellar-specific and general sensorimotor measures and added these estimates to the supplementary materials. As can be seen from Author response table 1, there is no consistent pattern of lower reliability for cerebellar-specific measures that could plausibly account for the absence of age-related effects.

      Author response table 1.

      Split-half reliabilities

      (4) Task dependence on the cerebellum. It is difficult to argue that measures such as reach accuracy, choice reaction time, or rhythm deviation are non-cerebellar. Ataxia certainly impacts reach accuracy. Although patient evidence is mixed - and even when there is a lack of dissociation (e.g., prolonged choice reaction times in both cerebellar and PD groups) - this does not preclude cerebellar involvement in these measures. Indeed, as the authors stated, claims of cerebellar independence should therefore be made cautiously (can be addressed by VBM in comment 1).

      In the paper we tried to emphasize that the general sensorimotor measures still involve cerebellar functions, as this is the case with many movement-related measures. However we theorized that they do not primarily depend on cerebellar function. For example rhythm deviation in the finger tapping task is influenced by cerebellar timing mechanisms as well as motor execution noise, attention, etc. While the cerebellar-specific measure from this task, which is the clock variance, has been shown to extract the contribution of cerebellar-dependent timing mechanisms to this task (Ivry & Keele, 1989).

      On p.37, we added the following paragraph:

      “Similarly, it is important to recognize that general sensorimotor performance is not independent of cerebellar processing. Many broad measures, such as movement accuracy, reaction time, likely reflect contributions from many different brain regions including the cerebellum. As a result, age‑related differences in general sensorimotor performance may emerge from multiple interacting systems rather than cerebellar function alone.”

      (5) Interpreting preserved or enhanced function. The finding of preserved - or even enhanced - performance in older adults is compelling. The authors interpret this as evidence for cerebellar reserve or compensation for cortical decline. An alternative explanation is that cerebellar structures simply decline more slowly than cortical ones, as their gray-matter data suggest; so rather than cerebellar activity revving up, it may remain the same: For example, following up on several of the authors' prior papers, Cisneros et al. (2024) reported enhanced implicit recalibration with age, potentially reflecting greater reliance on cerebellar forward models as sensory (especially proprioceptive) signals degrade. However, this may reflect reweighting rather than compensation - where cerebellar contributions are not enhanced, but rather preserved as other systems decline more rapidly. It would be valuable for the authors to clarify whether they view their findings as evidence of reweighting (slower decline) or compensation (increased contribution).

      We completely agree with this additional interpretation and added a small section to the discussion about it. However, based on the structural cerebellar measures that we have, it is difficult to state whether the reweighting or compensation theory would be more plausible. In either way, both are in line with the cerebellar reserve theory

      Added to discussion (P. 35):

      Importantly, the relative preservation of cerebellar structure compared to other systems may itself contribute to the maintained cerebellar function observed in older age. Even if structural decline is present, the fact that it progresses more slowly than in many cortical and subcortical regions suggests that a form of structural reserve remains available in the cerebellum. This structural reserve could underlie the continued efficiency of cerebellar circuits and support their capacity to sustain motor functions across aging.

      (6) Mental rotation and the continuity hypothesis. The age-related decline in mental rotation performance, if cerebellar-dependent (see McDougle et al., 2022; note minor inconsistency in citation format throughout the paper), supports emerging theories that the cerebellum supports continuous mental simulations in both cognition and action, whether it's forward model simulation or interval-based timing in the motor control domain or mental rotation/intuitive physics in the cognitive domain (Tsay & Ivry, 2025). Given that mental rotation showed the strongest age effect, it would be fascinating to examine whether this correlates with structural loss in Crus I/II, regions most implicated in higher-order cognitive functions - related to Comment 1 above. Even on a crude level, without correlating with behaviour, do the authors have a map for which areas show greater degeneration than others?

      This is also something we did in the other paper mentioned before (Figure 5 of the new preprint). At a first glimpse, the mental rotation outcomes show a strong positive correlation with Crus I and a negative correlation with Crus II, however none of these were significant and the fact that their sign is opposite suggest that these might be random. Indeed, in the preprint, we also compare age-related changes in grey matter volumes for different anatomical and functional cerebellar regions (Figure 1).

      The inconsistencies in citation format have been fixed as well.

      (7) Continuous age analyses. An exploratory analysis correlating age (as a continuous variable) with each dependent measure might provide greater sensitivity than categorical group comparisons, revealing more graded relationships between age and performance.

      Our experiment was not designed to perform such analysis. Testing for group differences provides more power than testing for correlations. For this reason, given that our clearly separated age groups did not show any behavioral differences, we do not expect such an analysis to provide substantial additional insight. Given that the paper is already very extensive, we haven’t performed this additional analysis.

      Congratulations on this comprehensive piece of work!

      Thank you for your kind words

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      In the introduction, the authors note that the current literature on the cerebellum in aging has evidence from "studies that relied on single-task paradigms", including a citation to an eye-blink conditioning study. They then note "instead of capturing a broader range of specific cerebellar functions". What do they mean by this? Eye-blink conditioning, for example, when administered in a delay paradigm, is tied directly to the cerebellum and is arguably a cerebellar function or learning paradigm. Some clarity about his point is needed.

      The meaning of this is that most previous studies examining cerebellar function in older adults relied on a single task, or on tasks that were functionally very similar, such as balance and gait, to assess performance. In contrast, our study incorporated multiple tasks targeting different sensorimotor skills, allowing us to identify broader patterns in cerebellar sensorimotor performance in older adults.

      To make this clearer, we have rephrased the sentence (p.4):

      “However, much of the evidence supporting this theory comes from studies that narrowly focused on a single task (Boisgontier & Nougier, 2013; Miller et al., 2013; Woodruff-Pak et al., 2001) or on assessments within similar cerebellar domains such as balance and gait (Droby et al., 2021; Rosano et al., 2007), instead of capturing a broader range of specific cerebellar functions.”

      The authors note that many cerebellar tasks that are impaired in patients are preserved in older adults. The authors, however, seem to ignore delay eyeblink conditioning. Gerwig and colleagues (2010, Behav Brain Res) have shown that this is impacted in patients, and it is also robustly impacted in aging. Older adults still learn, but the age effects are highly replicable. A clear discussion of eye-blink conditioning and how it fits into this framework, and with your findings here, would be really helpful. It seems like a notable oversight not to have it discussed, given the age effects in this context, even if it was not included as a measure.

      Eye blink conditioning is an interesting example that seems to contradict our theory: eye-blink conditioning is both affected by age and dependent on the cerebellum. However, while age-related changes in cerebellar structure evolve continuously with age, changes in eye-blink conditioning performance remains unchanged between 40 and 80 years old. Therefore, eye-blink conditioning suggest that age-related changes in cerebellar structure are not related to possible age-related changes in function. This discussion was already included in the manuscript on p. 36, which reads as:

      “Similarly, no eye-blink conditioning task was included, as it is heavily influenced by cognitive factors such as awareness and arousal, and fear conditioning (LaBar et al., 2004). Previous work has shown that many variables, such as blink reaction time and motor components of the eyeblink reflex, introduce substantial variability in responses at older age (Woodruff-Pak & Jaeger, 1998). In contrast, this study found that only performance on the rhythmic finger-tapping task, similar to what we included in our battery, emerged as a significant predictor of age-related differences in eye-blink conditioning. Furthermore, age-related differences appeared to plateau after early adulthood, with no significant variation in the percentage of correct responses between ages 40 and 80 (Woodruff-Pak & Jaeger, 1998). Practically, the extended duration of the training protocol also makes this task unsuitable for inclusion in a test battery (Winton et al., 2025).”

      This approach also does not consider variability within older adults. That is, on average, they may do better than patients. But, there are also individual differences in cerebellar metrics (structure, for example) within an older adult sample that are a critical consideration here. When looking at the behavioral plots that include the individual data points (which is a great addition and very helpful), it is clear that variability is prevalent. As noted below, it may still be that cerebellar metrics are associated with behavior, given the high degree of variability within the groups across aging.

      We agree with the reviewer that variability is prevalent, as it is in any experiment. In our latest preprint entitled “Aging is associated with uniform structural decline across cerebellar regions while preserving topological organization and showing no relation with sensorimotor function” (https://doi.org/10.64898/2026.02.13.705695), we investigated whether variability in cerebellar structure could predict variability in cerebellar functions. Across all our tasks, we did not find such association, independently of whether we defined cerebellar regions based on an anatomical atlas or a functional one.

      The use of 23 as the cut-off for MOCA scores is rather low. What was the justification for this within the literature? The authors note wanting to ensure task instructions and those with symptoms of potential MCI, but often 26 is used as a minimum score (with 25 and below being potential MCI).

      In the methods, we refer to the study of Carson et al. (2018) that recommends a cutoff score of 23/30 instead of 26/30 as it shows overall better diagnostic accuracy. We selected this cutoff to emphasize that our sample was not restricted to only the highest‑performing older adults. However, we agree that this is not sufficiently explained in the text, so we briefly clarified this (p.5):

      “We assessed cognitive functioning in both older and older‑old participants using the Montreal Cognitive Assessment (MoCA). A minimum score of 23 out of 30 was required for inclusion, following the recommendation by Carson et al. (2018), who demonstrated that this reduced cutoff yields fewer false positives and provides better overall diagnostic accuracy than the original 26/30 threshold. We adopted this criterion to ensure that our sample was not limited to only the highest‑performing older adults.”

      The authors note that the timing of the visits was adapted based on participant availability. It would be helpful to report the mean length of time between sessions, as well as the range.

      We added this to the method section (p.6):

      “There was no fixed interval between the two behavioral sessions. Ideally, both were scheduled within one week, but in practice, the timing was adapted to participants’ availability. Across all participants, this resulted in a mean inter-session interval of 7.40 days (± 9.03; range = 0-63 days). The average interval between the behavioral sessions and the MRI scanning was 6.86 days (± 8.90; range = 0-83 days).”

      The authors have anatomically defined cerebellar parcellations but have looked solely at total volume measures. What is the rationale for this? If there are differential impacts on cerebellar volume with age (Han et al., 2022; Bernard & Seidler, 2013), there may also be positive associations with behavior in regions that are less negatively impacted by volume. This would be consistent with the idea of reserve. One interesting set of correlations that could be considered is with respect to anterior lobules (I-IV and V) relative to the secondary motor representation in VIIIa and VIIIb, such that the latter may show a more robust association with behavior in the positive direction if volume in these regions is less impacted by aging.

      As mentioned in response to one comment from the other reviewer, we investigated this question in our latest preprint (https://doi.org/10.64898/2026.02.13.705695). In this analysis, we did not find any relation between cerebellar outcomes and anatomical or functional cerebellar regions.

      We consider this to be beyond the scope of the present paper, which focuses on the behavioral performances. The total cerebellar volume was added to show that the subject sample we used did actually exhibit atrophy in the cerebellum, but the purpose of the paper was not to focus on the link between structure and function.

      With respect to timing, I recognize that the clock variance is insignificant based on p=.06. However, this is a relatively "close" result. I am very much of the mindset that things are significant or not. Inclusion of Bayesian analyses helps this, but I don't find this particularly convincing. The larger sample of individuals over age 80 is certainly a strength, and I'm not especially concerned about power. But I do wonder about overinterpretation. I would also emphasize the large degree of variability here in the oldest sample. This raises questions about associations with cerebellar metrics. This argument for relative preservation/reserve may be strengthened by looking at individual differences in structure relative to behavior. That is, in areas of the cerebellum where structure is less impacted by aging (as this is not entirely uniform) does this volume predict better behavior in this sample?

      As noted earlier, the relationship between structure and function is examined in our other paper (https://doi.org/10.64898/2026.02.13.705695). Unfortunately, we were unable to include the 80+ group in that analysis because MRI data was available for only 20 older‑old participants and correlations/regression with 20 people are vastly underpowered.

      We also want to point out that the almost significant difference highlighted by the reviewer between age groups actually goes in the direction of the older participants performing better than the young participants.

      The note about the amount of variance in the older-old participants is fair, though.

      The comparison with the Cam-CAN data set seems to be largely qualitative. Why did the authors not make a direct comparison to determine relative similarity in their sample compared to Cam-CAN? This would be a bit more compelling, though I suspect the differences are not statistically reliable (they note the oldest-old in the Leuven sample have a slightly larger volume). I do realize there are sample size differences, but a matched random sub-sample could also be created out of Cam-CAN. Why did they not compute the quadratic model in the Leuven sample as well?

      A quadratic model was not considered very meaningful in the Leuven sample because age was not measured as a continuous variable but categorized into three discrete age groups (which provides more power to look at age-related differences). Our goal was not to determine whether absolute cerebellar volumes matched across datasets, for example, by creating comparable age groups in the Cam‑CAN dataset, but rather to assess whether the pattern of age‑related effects in our sample aligned with those seen in a larger dataset. In our opinion, the current approach sufficiently demonstrates that the age‑related trends we observe are consistent with those reported in Cam‑CAN.

      The analysis of relative cerebellar gray and white matter is quite interesting. However, what about regional patterns to this? It would be particularly interesting to know if some regions are more or less impacted or preserved relative to the cortex. The data are seemingly available based on the processing approach (at least for gray matter). Was a similar analysis also computed in Cam-CAN? Replicating this in an independent sample would also be of interest.

      We agree with the reviewer that this is indeed interesting for further analyses on this dataset. However, it falls beyond the scope of the present paper. Our preprint (https://doi.org/10.64898/2026.02.13.705695) looks at regional patterns for the cerebellum. Other papers have compared age-related decline in different cortical and subcortical regions as discussed on p.35 of our discussion:

      “Given that the cerebellum exhibited a relatively less pronounced structural decline compared to other brain regions as shown here and in another previous study (Taki et al., 2011), it seems more plausible that the cerebellum might compensate for deficits caused by structural changes in other areas rather than vice-versa. Age-related gray and white matter degeneration is usually faster in frontotemporal regions and subcortical regions, including the hippocampus, amygdala and thalamus than in the cerebellum (Fjell et al., 2013; Giorgio et al., 2010; Neufeld et al., 2022). Although this does not directly indicate functional implications, it suggests that cortical regions are less likely to compensate for cerebellar loss when they exhibit more severe degeneration.”

      The authors argue for cerebellar reserve and present compelling behavioral data in support of this with their many tasks. In instances where they look at largely cerebellar-mediated measures, they demonstrate that older adults and the >80 year old group show relatively intact behavior, even those in the group for total cerebellar gray matter volume (and white matter) is significantly smaller than in young adults. As noted, the behavioral data are very compelling, and as an individual who looks at aging populations in their research, seeing areas and domains of preservation is always interesting and useful. This pattern certainly may be consistent with cerebellar reserve. However, it would be more compelling if the authors also looked at these behaviors with respect to cerebellar volume. That is, there is still a great deal of variability in behavior in the older and >80 samples (though also in the young adults) that may still be associated with cerebellar volume. Poorer performance may be present in those with smaller volumes. This would also be somewhat consistent with the notion that these tasks are those that are derived from work in cerebellar degeneration samples. Associations between behavior and cerebellar measures would speak to this. If there are no associations with volume, this would be particularly interesting and compelling in the context of reserve. Alternatively, if there are differential impacts on cerebellar volume with age (Han et al., 2022; Bernard & Seidler, 2013), there may also be positive associations with behavior in regions that are less negatively impacted by volume. This would be consistent with the idea of reserve. One interesting set of correlations that could be considered is with respect to anterior lobules (I-IV and V) relative to the secondary motor representation in VIIIa and VIIIb, such that the latter may show a more robust association with behavior in the positive direction if volume in these regions is less impacted by aging. Not all individuals completed the scan (due to safety and comfort considerations), which would limit statistical power potentially, but this could be conducted in the subset of individuals that have both sets of data.

      This point overlaps with the issues raised by the other reviewer in comments 1 and 2, which highlights the importance of this point. Yet, we decided to address this analysis in a separate paper. In the current manuscript, our primary focus was on the behavioral aspects, as these are already quite extensive on their own. In our subsequent work (https://doi.org/10.64898/2026.02.13.705695), we conducted an in-depth investigation into the relationship between cerebellar-specific measures and cerebellar structure across distinct cerebellar regions (including anatomical regions and functionally defined regions according to the atlas of Nettekoven et al., 2024). We found that aging does not affect the cerebellum uniformly, but that some anatomical regions exhibit stronger age effects. For the functionally defined regions the age effects were uniform though. There was no relation between behavioral cerebellar-specific measures and anatomical or functional cerebellar regions.

      Some of the assertions the authors make in the discussion about the cerebellum have less pronounced structural decline relative to other brain regions would benefit from being tempered. They used relative measures here, and this is certainly interesting. But, how do other regions stack up? What would the hippocampus look like if such a measure were used? And as noted, does this pattern replicate in the CAM-CAN sample? Further, the authors cite Jernigan et al. (2001) in arguing that cerebellar changes are smaller than those in other brain regions, when in looking at their tables, in fact, the gray matter reductions of the cerebellum are comparable to those of the prefrontal cortex and second only to those of the hippocampus.

      We agree with the reviewer that this is an interesting question but this question needs to be addressed in a separate paper. We also remove the citation to the Jernigan paper.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the current reviews.

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Comments on revisions: The authors addressed all my concerns.

      We thank you for the positive review and feedback throughout the review process.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Comments on revisions: We agree with the overall findings of the study and appreciate that the claims in text and title have been appropriately toned down. As additional suggestions e.g. for presentation, many of the graphics/labels are still too small to be useful. It would be interesting to see if this cell line is similar to the tumours in terms of all the phenotypes. The lapatinib experiment was good. I wonder how quick this drug affects the mitochondria. Also it would be interesting to see if these cells have higher OXPHOS than other non-transformed breast epithelial cells. The WB on oxphos components is good with ab110413 but this looks like many subunits are detected so this should be made clear.

      Thank you for these suggestions.

      We have clarified in the Methods section (lines 475–476) the specific OXPHOS subunits detected using the Ab110413 antibody cocktail.

      With respect to lapatinib, prior work has shown that lapatinib can alter the phosphoproteome within minutes to hours (PMID:22964224). In our experiments, however, NF639 cells were exposed to lapatinib for 24 hours - a timeframe in which transcriptional and translational remodeling are also expected to occur. Therefore, we cannot distinguish whether the observed suppression of OXPHOS reflects acute signaling effects or downstream changes in gene and protein abundance. Importantly, the purpose of this experiment was proof-of-principle: to determine whether HER2 signaling contributes to respiratory competency in a cell line derived from the same transgenic model as the intact tumor slices used in this study. Thus, while defining the precise kinetics of inhibition or comparing to benign/non-transformed cells would be interesting, these were not the primary objectives of the added experiments.

      We have increased figure label sizes across all main figures.


      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, Frangos et al. used a transcriptomic and proteomic approach to characterise changes in HER2-driven mammary tumours compared to healthy mammary tissue in mice. They observed that mitochondrial genes, including OXPHOS regulators, were among the most down-regulated genes and proteins in their datasets. Surprisingly, these were associated with higher mitochondrial respiration, in response to a variety of carbon sources. In addition, there seems to be a reduction in mitochondrial fusion and an increase in fission in tumours compared to healthy tissues.

      Strengths:

      The data are clearly presented and described.

      The author reported very similar trends in proteomic and transcriptomic data. Such approaches are essential to have a better understanding of the changes in cancer cell metabolism associated with tumourigenesis.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) This study, despite being a useful resource (assuming all the data will be publicly available and not only upon request) is mainly descriptive and correlative and lacks mechanistic links.

      We appreciate this point. While the primary goal of our study was to assess mitochondrial adaptations with HER2-driven tumorigenesis, we agree strengthening the mechanistic interpretation would improve the impact of the data. To address this, we have provided experiments demonstrating HER2 inhibition in NF639 cells with lapatinib supresses respiratory capacity, directly supporting the interpretation that HER2 activity regulates respiratory function (Figure 10). We have expanded the discussion appropriately (lines 378-394). Both raw RNA-seq and proteomic data were deposited through GEO and the PRIDE repositories (accession numbers included in Data Availability Statement).

      (2) It would be important to determine the cellular composition of the tumour and healthy tissue used. Do the changes described here apply to cancer cells only or do other cell types contribute to this?

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion; we have added experiments that have directly addressed this concern.

      Cell type composition analysis by immunofluorescence was added (Figure 6) where we quantified epithelial, mesenchymal, endothelial, immune and stromal populations in our benign mammary tissue and tumor samples. We found no major shift in the dominant cell types that would confound transcriptomic data in whole tissues.

      We integrated immunofluorescence data with a publicly available scRNA-seq dataset from human breast tumors which allowed us to estimate cell-type-specific expression of OXPHOS genes in our own samples. Despite the possibility of species differences, this is the only dataset of its kind, and we used this to generate an estimate of cell type weighted OXPHOS mRNA expression (Figure 6). This revealed that epithelial cells are likely the dominant contributors to OXPHOS gene expression for CIIV. All calculations are delineated in the Methods section.

      (3) Are the changes in metabolic gene expression a consequence of HER2 signalling activation? Ex-vivo experiments could be performed to perturb this pathway and determine cause-effects.

      Thank you for this suggestion – we have included an experiment directly testing this concept. We assessed mitochondrial respiration in NF639 HER2-driven mammary tumor epithelial cells in the presence or absence of the well-described dual tyrosine kinase inhibitor lapatinib. Lapatinib reduced basal, CI-linked and CI+II linked respiration without compromising mitochondrial integrity or coupling, demonstrating that HER2 activation regulates respiration in our model. This data is presented in Figure 10, and a new section has been added to the discussion describing the implications of this finding in the context of the current literature (lines 378-394).

      (4) The data of fission/fusion seem quite preliminary and the gene/protein expression changes are not so clear cut to be a convincing explanation that this is the main reason for the increased mitochondria respiration in tumours.

      We agree mitochondrial morphology and dynamics alone cannot fully account for the observed respiratory phenotype – this was emphasized in the discussion but has since been further clarified (lines 365-377). We retained the TEM and dynamics gene/protein data because they do support morphological differences consistent with enhanced fission. However, we have revised the tone of our interpretation to more explicitly acknowledge that these findings are correlative, and the updated discussion now emphasizes that the increased respiratory capacity in tumors is likely driven by multiple converging mechanisms.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Frangos et al present a set of studies aiming to determine mechanisms underlying initiation and tumour progression. Overall, this work provides some useful insights into the involvement of mitochondrial dysfunction during the cellular transformation process. This body of work could be improved in several possible directions to establish more mechanistic connections.

      (5) The interesting point of the paper: the contrast between suppressed ETC components and activated OXPHOS function is perplexing and should be resolved. It is still unclear if activated mitochondrial function triggers gene down-regulation vs compensatory functional changes (as the title suggests). Have the authors considered reversing the HER2-derived signals e.g. with PI3K-AKT-MTOR or ERK inhibitors to potentially separate the expression vs. functional phenotypes? The root of the OXPHOS component down-regulation should also be traced further, e.g. by probing into levels of core mitochondrial biogenesis factors. Are transcript levels of factors encoded by mtDNA also decreased?

      We appreciate this insight and agree that the discordance between mitochondrial content and function is fascinating and have addressed the concerns above in the following manner:

      - We have altered the title – we agree we cannot definitively say that the enhanced respiratory capacity observed is compensatory.

      - We have added experiments in NF639 cells in the presence of lapatinib, a tyrosine kinase inhibitor to interrogate whether HER2 is necessary for our functional outcome of interest – the enhanced respiratory capacity in the tumors. Lapatinib significantly suppressed respiration (Figure 10) demonstrating HER2 signaling directly regulates mitochondrial respiration.

      - We have expanded the discussion to provide further comment on potential explanations for increased respiratory function and low mitochondrial content.

      (6) The second interesting aspect of this study is the implication of mitochondrial activation in tumours, despite the downregulation of expression signatures, suggestive of a positive role for mitochondria in this tumour model. To address if this is correlative or causal, have the authors considered testing an OXPHOS inhibitor for suppression of tumorigenesis?

      Previous studies have eloquently highlighted that directly or indirectly inhibiting mitochondria can supress growth in HER2-driven breast cancer (PMID:31690671) or alternatively, amplification of mt-HER2 enhances tumorigenesis (PMID: 38291340). In many solid tumors, this is the concept of preclinical and clinical studies using IACS-010759 or similar inhibitors of OXPHOS which do suppress growth but have significant off target effects in healthy tissues (PMID: 36658425, 3580228We have expanded the discussion to ensure the reader is aware of these previous contributions and highlighted the importance of future work delineating the role of enhanced respiratory function in HER2-driven mammary cancer (lines 378-394).

      (7) A number of issues concerning animal/ tumour variability and further pathway dissection could be explored with in vitro approaches. Have the authors considered deriving tumourderived cell cultures, which could enable further confirmations, mechanistic drug studies and additional imaging approaches? Culture systems would allow alternative assessment of mitochondrial function such as Seahorse or flow cytometry (mitochondrial potential and ROS levels).

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion – we have addressed this in part by using the NF639 HER2driven tumor epithelial line which demonstrated that HER2 regulates our observed respiratory response. Unfortunately, the addition of tumor derived cell cultures was not feasible or within the scope of our study. Animal and tumor variability has been clarified in the Methods section (lines 424-429). Mitochondrial respiration experiments were performed in paired tissue (benign and tumor from same mouse). Transcriptomic, proteomic and histological analyses were performed on tumors and benign samples from different mice due to tissue limitations.

      (8) The study could be greatly improved with further confirmatory studies, eg immunoblotting for mitochondrial components with parallel blots for phospho-signalling in the same samples. It would be interesting if trends could be maintained in tumour-derived cell cultures. It is notable that OXPHOS protein/transcript changes are more consistent (Figure 5, Supplementary Figure 4) than mitochondrial dynamics /mitophagy factors (Figure 8). Core regulatory factors in these pathways should be confirmed by conventional immunoblotting.

      We thank the reviewer for this thoughtful comment. While we agree that additional confirmatory studies can be valuable, due to tissue quantity constraints and the number of assays required for our multi-omics analysis, extensive additional blots were not feasible. However, we had sufficient protein to provide select OXPHOS proteins to verify the proteomic data (now provided in S-Fig.4H). Furthermore, we have plotted the fold change of genes and proteins detected in both datasets and added this to Figure 4 (4A, B), further highlighting the consistency between our transcriptomic and proteomic findings. We believe that the highly consistent and concordant nature of our datasets collectively provides strong support for our central objective - determining whether mitochondrial content and respiratory function correlate in HER2-driven mammary tumors. The reproducibility of OXPHOS-related changes reinforces the robustness of our observations. We also appreciate the reviewer’s insight that OXPHOS alterations appear particularly consistent. In response, we have edited the discussion to further emphasize this point, especially in relation to the distinctive pattern observed for Complex V, which showed greater preservation relative to Complexes I–IV across several methods (lines 348-364). We comment on how this stoichiometric shift may contribute to intrinsic respiratory activation despite reduced mitochondrial content.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Further Minor points.

      (9) It would be helpful to know further details regarding the source of the tumour samples, particularly for the proteomics (N=5) and transcriptomics (N=6) datasets, since the exact timepoint of tissue harvest and number of tumours/mouse varied, according to the methods section. Were all samples from the omics studies from different mice (ie 11 mice)? B4 and B6 seem like outliers in mitochondrial transcriptomes. Are these directly paired eg with T4 and T6? Are the side-by-side pairs of Ben and Tum samples for blots in Figure 1 and Supplementary Figure 1 from the same mouse.

      This has been clarified in the Methods section (lines 424-429). Mitochondrial respiration experiments were performed in paired tissue (benign and tumor from same mouse). Transcriptomic, proteomic and histological analyses were performed on tumors and benign samples from different mice due to tissue limitations.

      (10) Further references and details are needed to support the methodology of the mitochondrial function tests (eg. nutrients vs pairing with complexes). What was the time point of nutrient supplementation? It would seem that the lipid substrates should take longer to activate OXPHOS than pyruvate/malate or succinate. Is this the case? Is there speculation as to why succinate supplementation is much more active than pyruvate+malate? What is +MD in Figure 6? The rationale for pooling data for Figure 7A is unclear since the categories appear to overlap: (pyruvate, malate, ADP) vs. (palmitoyl-carnitine, malate, ADP).

      Thank you for this comment. We have expanded the methods (lines 515-531) to provide additional detail on the mitochondrial respiration protocol. Briefly, permeabilized tissues were exposed to substrates delivered at supraphysiological concentrations in a sequential protocol lasting ~30–60 minutes. Under these conditions, mitochondrial respiration reflects the maximal capacity to utilize each substrate rather than the physiological time course of substrate mobilization or uptake that would occur in vivo with the influence of blood flow and transport/substrate availability limitations.

      (11) Many of the figures were blurry (Figure 1F, 2B) or had labels that were too small to be effective (Figures 1G, H, 2D-G, 3E-G, 5E-I, 7C, 8B).

      The font size of figure labels has been increased where possible and all figures have been exported to maximize resolution.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The study investigates the role of vascular mural cells, specifically pericytes and vascular smooth muscle cells (vSMCs), in maintaining blood-brain barrier (BBB) integrity and regulating vascular patterning. Analyzing zebrafish pdgfrb mutants that lack brain pericytes and vSMCs, they show that mural cell deficiency does not impair BBB establishment or maintenance during larval and early juvenile stages. However, mural cells seem to be crucial for preventing vascular aneurysms and hemorrhage in adulthood as focal leakage, basement membrane disruption, and increased caveolae formation are observed in adult zebrafish at aneurysm hotspots. The authors challenge the paradigm that mural cells are essential for BBB regulation in early development while highlighting their importance for long-term vascular stability.

      Strengths:

      Previous studies have established that the zebrafish BBB shares molecular and morphological homology with e.g. the mammalian BBB and therefore represents a suitable model. By examining mural cell roles across different life stages - from larval to adult zebrafish - the study provides an unprecedented comprehensive developmental analysis of brain vascular development and of how mural cells influence BBB integrity and vascular stability over time. The use of live imaging, whole-brain clearing, and electron microscopy offers high-resolution insights into cerebrovascular patterning, aneurysm development, and structural changes in endothelial cells and basement membranes. By analyzing "leakage hotspots" and their association with structural endothelial defects in adults the presented findings add novel insights into how mural cell loss may lead to vascular instability.

      Weaknesses:

      The study uses quantitative tracer assays with multiple molecular weight dyes to evaluate blood-brain barrier (BBB) permeability. The study normalizes the intensity of tracer signals (e.g., 10 kDa, 70 kDa dextrans) in the brain parenchyma to the vascular signal of a 2000 kDa dextran tracer (assumed to remain within vessels). Intensity normalization is used to control for variations in tracer injection efficiency or vascular density. This method doesn't directly assess the absolute amount of tracer present in the parenchyma, potentially underestimating leakage severity. As the lack of BBB impairment is a "negative" finding, more rigorous controls or other methods might be needed to corroborate it.

      In response to these and comments from other reviewers, we have now performed further carefully controlled analysis to test leakage of tracers using molecular weights ranging from 1 to 2000 kDa. We have performed additional normalisation approaches (new data in Fig. 2a–d) imaging tracer extravasation together with vascular reporters (Tg(kdrl:EGFP)<sup>s843</sup> or Tg(kdrl:Hsa.HRAS-mCherry)<sup>s916</sup>) and used this transgenic reporter for normalisation (as suggested by Reviewer #2). The results of these experiments all supported our initial conclusions (revised Extended Data Fig. 3a–d) further validating the reliability of our method. Furthermore, as suggested by the reviewer analysis of the raw tracer intensity amounts in the parenchyma were also performed with no normalization at all (see Author response image 1). This also supports our conclusion that the BBB is intact in young animals. Finally, we now use our methods to demonstrate that we can detect an immature leaky BBB at 3 dpf and a mature functional BBB at 7 dpf (Fig. 2e-f), a suitable positive control to show that our methods and analyses are reliable.

      Author response image 1.

      Raw intensity values from the parenchyma confirm findings in Figure 2 and Extended Data Figure 3.a–d, Raw mean fluorescence intensity values of extravasated tracers in the midbrain.(a–b) show unnormalized values corresponding to Extended Data Fig. 3a–d, and (c–d) show unnormalized values corresponding to Fig. 1a–d. Unpaired t-tests for 70 and 10 kDa at 14 dpf in (a–b), for 10 kD at 7 dpf, and for 70 kDa at 14 dpf in (c–d). Mann-Whitney tests for 70 and 10 kDa at 7 dpf in (a–b), for 70 kDa at 7 dpf, and for 10 kDa at 14 dpf (c–d), due to non-normal distribution. These data were all generated in genotype blind assays, display variance in signal that is generated between embryos due to injection differences and show no difference between the genotypes analysed in BBB integrity. Comparison of this to normalised data using 2000 kDa tracer or kdrl expression in endothelial cells (Fig. 2 and Extended Data Fig. 3) confirms that normalisation improves the analysis, effectively controlling for embryo-to-embryo differences in delivery of tracer and imaging.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors generated a zebrafish mutant of the pdgfrb gene. The presented analyses and data confirm previous studies demonstrating that Pdgfrb signaling is necessary for mural cell development in zebrafish. In addition, the data support previously published studies in zebrafish showing that mural cell deficiency leads to hemorrhages later in life. The authors presented quantified data on vessel density and branching, assessed tracer extravasation, and investigated the vasculature of adult mice using electron microscopy.

      Strengths:

      The strength of this article is that it provides independent confirmation of the important role of Pdgfrb signaling for the development of mural cells in the zebrafish brain. In addition, it confirms previous literature on zebrafish that provides evidence that, in the absence of pericytes/VSMC, hemorrhages appear (Wang et al, 2014, PMID: 24306108 and Ando et al 2021, PMID: 3431092). The study by Ando et al, 2021 did not report experiments assessing BBB leakage in pdgfrb mutants but in the review article by Ando et al (PMID: 34685412) it is stated that "indicating that endothelial cells can produce basic barrier integrity without pericytes in zebrafish."

      We thank the reviewer for their comments and pointing out literature that we had not cited (this has been corrected in our revised manuscript).

      As noted by other reviewers, our study goes beyond simply confirming previous literature. The quoted section by the reviewer from Ando et al 2021 regarding intact barrier integrity in pdgfrb mutants is a conclusion based on apparent lack of haemorrhages in pdgfrb mutants[1]. Our work shows haemorrhages in older animals and as such is in line with these previously published results, but it also extends previous work, for the first time reporting detailed functional analysis to assess BBB integrity. Our study uses definitive tracer assays (now including extensive revisions) to identify intact the BBB in pdgfrb mutants in live animals. This has not been previously described and is important because it offers a new perspective on the evolutionary conservation (or otherwise) of pericyte control of BBB function. Furthermore, our study investigates the nature of hotspot leakage and haemorrhages in more detail than in previous work.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The authors should avoid using violin plots, which show distribution. Instead, they should replace all violin plots in the figures with graphs showing individual data points and standard deviation. For Figure 2f specifically, the standard deviation in the analyzed cohort should be shown.

      This is a good point and we have replaced the violin plots with individual data points and shown all data as mean±SEM.

      (2) The authors have not shown the reduced PDGFRB protein or the effect of mutation on mRNA level in their zebrafish mutant.

      Our pdgfrb<sup>uq30bh</sup> mutant allele introduces a mutation predicted to generate a truncated protein very similar to previously validated alleles (see detail in revised Extended Data Fig. 1a and methods). Our pdgfrb<sup>uq30bh</sup> mutant also phenocopies previous pdgfrb mutants (sa16389 and um148 alleles)[2,3], displaying mural cell loss with multiple markers (Fig. 1a, new data in Extended Data Fig. 1b–c, Fig. 3b–c; Extended Data Fig. 4c–d) and the same typical morphological defects and survival rates (new data in Extended Data Fig. 1d–f). Thus our mutant phenocopy gives confidence it is most likely a null allele, in line with previous papers studying presumed null alleles[1].

      We believe this provides sufficient confidence in this allele of pdgfrb. Moreover, considering that our manuscript focusses on loss of mural cells and we show definitively that this mutant has robust loss of mural cells in the brain, our mutant is suitable for this study.

      (3) Statistical data analysis: Did the authors perform analyses to investigate whether the data has a normal distribution (e.g., Figures 1d, e)?

      We thank the reviewer for raising this and apologise for this oversight. All data have now been assessed for normality using Shapiro-Wilk test and further statistical analyses have been performed accordingly. The specific quantifications referred to by the reviewer in Extended Data Fig. 3a–d (previously Fig. 1d-e), have normal distribution except for quantification measuring 70 kDa extravasation at 7 dpf, therefore Mann-Whitney test has been used for this comparison. Further information can be found in figure legends and methods.

      (4) Analysis of tracer extravasation. The use of 2000 kDa dextran intensity as an internal reference is problematic because the authors have not provided data demonstrating that the 2000 kDa dextran signal remains consistent across the entire vasculature. The authors have not provided data demonstrating that the 2000 kDa dextran signal in vessels exhibits acceptable variance across the vasculature to serve as a reliable internal reference. The variability of this signal within a single animal remains unknown. The presented data do not address this aspect.

      We thank the reviewer for their comment and agree that analysis was needed for showing 2000 kDa dextran as a reliable normalization signal.

      We now show the data in the following Figures that demonstrate the consistency of signal throughout the vasculature using this 2000-kDa tracer: Extended Data Fig. 2b, Extended Data Fig. 3a and c, Extended Data Fig. 5a, Extended Data Fig. 6. In fact, we observe that this 2000 kDa tracer provides a very reliable marker of large and small calibre vessels in larval, juvenile and adult animals, even in fixed and cleared whole tissues and animals (e.g. Extended Data Fig. 2d-e, Extended Data Fig. 5 and 6).

      Our further experiments and analysis support the use of this tracer as an ideal way to normalise for variation between animals and coupled with improved masking of vessels using transgenic labels (e.g. Extended Data Fig. 2b) we can quantify across whole vascular networks to reduce the concern about variation within individual animals. We also find 2000 kDa shows negligible leakage through the brain vessels Extended Data Fig. 2b–c (new data) at 2 hours post-injection (hpi) and provided images in Extended Data Fig. 6b–b′′ showing detectable signals even at 6 hpi. Finally, results generated with this approach, normalisation to transgenic markers or even raw parenchymal values of tracer intensity, generate the same conclusions. In addition, we point the reviewer to a recent pre-print that further validates this method from our team[4].

      Overall, we find the use of this tracer an ideal way to normalise for differences in injection volumes between animals and we recommend the use of this method to other groups assessing BBB leakage in zebrafish.

      Additionally, it's intriguing that the signal intensity in the parenchyma of the tested tracers presents a substantial range, varying by 20-30% in the analysed cohort (Figure 1g, Extended Figure 1e). Such large variability raises the question of its origin. Could it be a consequence of the normalization to 2000 kDa dextran intensity which differs between different fish? Or is it due to the differences in the parenchymal signal intensity while the baseline 2000 kDa intensity is stable? Or is the situation mixed?

      This is a good point raised by the reviewer.

      To address this, we have used the following approaches:

      (1) We provide additional experiments and normalisation methods that support the utility of our tracer studies (new data in Fig 2a–f and Extended Data Fig. 2b–c), discussed in detail below.

      (2) We provide graphs of the raw parenchymal distribution of tracer not normalised at all (also requested by reviewer 1). This is provided in Author response image 1 and further supports all our conclusions, showing that our normalisation methods generate meaningful data.

      Overall, the range of parenchymal intensity that we see after tracer injection and live imaging shows variations introduced during microinjection. However, these ranges are in-line with previous publications using similar methods (see studies by O’Brown et al 2019 and 2023)[5,6], allow reliable statistical comparisons to be drawn between control and mutants and allow us to detect both immature and functional BBB states during zebrafish development (new data in Fig. 2e-f).

      Of note, the variability we see is likely introduced during the injection process into tiny larval blood vessels and is the reason why we perform normalization of parenchymal tracers to a vascular dextran signal that doesn’t leak from brain vessels. In our studies, 2000-kDa dextran has been co-injected with the smaller size tracers, therefore any potential differences in injection volumes as well as imaging conditions (however consistent) should be reduced by this method.

      An alternative and potentially more effective approach would be to cross the pdgfrb mutant line with a line where endothelial cells are genetically labeled to define vessels (e.g. the line kdrl used in acquiring data presented in Figure 2a). Non-injected controls could then be used as a baseline to assess tracer extravasation into the parenchyma.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion.

      In response, we have performed new tracer leakage experiments at 7 and 14 dpf in siblings and pdgfrb mutants and quantified parenchymal tracer extravasation by normalizing to vascular reporters (Tg(kdrl:EGFP)<sup>s843</sup> or Tg(kdrl:Hsa.HRAS-mCherry)<sup>s916</sup>). The results were in-line with the previously presented and independent experiments and showed indistinguishable phenotypes between siblings and pdgfrb mutants (new data, Fig. 2a–d). We also used uninjected controls to assess baseline and saw consistent values approaching zero in these images and did not include this in the revised paper.

      Furthermore, we have also used this approach in wild-type larvae at 3 dpf (immature BBB) and 7 dpf (functional BBB)[5]. We detected significantly higher parenchymal extravasation of 10 and 70 kDa tracers at 3 dpf compared to 7dpf, demonstrating that our method can detect leakage (new data, Fig. 2e–f).

      We believe that both normalization approaches have advantages (as discussed above), therefore showing the same results with these two different approaches has further strengthened our findings.

      How is the data presented in Figure 3e generated? How was the dextran intensity calculated? It looks like the authors have used the kdrl line to define vessels. Was the 2000 kDa still used as in previous figures? If not, please describe this in the Materials and Methods section.

      We have moved this data to Fig. 4e (previously Fig. 3e).

      Previously, we had plotted raw data due to the nature of the experiment being conducted on a vibratome sectioned tissue. The 2000 kDa tracer was not used. In response to this query and to be consistent with the new approach suggested by the reviewer, we have revised the quantification by normalizing the 10 kDa tracer extravasation to Tg(kdrl:Hsa.HRAS-mCherry)<sup>s916</sup>) for this and the new experiments on juveniles (Fig. 5h–i). Please see the corresponding figure legends or revised methods (lines 464–472).

      (5) The authors state that both controls and mutants show extravasation of 1 kDa NHS-ester into the parenchyma. However, the presented images do not illustrate this; it is not obvious from these images (Extended Data Figure 1c). Additionally, the presented quantification data (Extended Data Figure 1e) do not show that, at 7 dpf, the vasculature is permeable to this tracer. Note that the range of signal intensity of the 1 kDa NHS-ester is similar to the 70 kDa dextran (Figure 1g and Extended Figure 1e). Would one expect an increase in the ratio in case of extravasation, considering that the 2000 kDa dextran has the same intensity in all experiments? Please explain.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point.

      To clarify, we have never claimed that “2000-kDa dextran has the same intensity in all experiments”. On the contrary, vascular 2000 kDa normalization has been used to account for potential differences caused by injection, as stated in the submitted supplementary materials and now made more clear in the revision.

      In response to this query, we conducted more detailed analysis on tracer extravasation patterns based on molecular weight (new data, Extended Data Fig 2b–c). This analysis showed that 1- and 10-kDa tracers have much higher extravasation rate compared to 70- and 2000-kDa tracers. Interestingly, we did not find a significant difference between 1 and 10 kDa extravasation. Therefore, in the revised manuscript we used only 10 kDa in further experiments and have removed 1 kDa from the figures.

      To assess the tracers individually (new data in Extended Data Fig. 2c), parenchymal extravasation of individual tracers was normalised to their own vascular signal (eg. Mean intensity of 10 kDa in midbrain/mean intensity of 10 kDa in vasculature), to account for potential differences in injection volume. This provides a suitable method to assess leakage in wild-type animals and is now in line with how previous studies have analysed such tracer injections[5,6]. Please see revised figure legends and supplementary materials for details.

      (6) The study would be strengthened by a more detailed temporal analysis of the phenotype. When do the aneurysms appear? Is there an additional loss of VSMC?

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion, and we have now performed staged imaging of the pdgfrb mutants and siblings between 7 and 21 dpf using TgBAC(acta2:EGFP)<sup>uq17bh</sup> transgene (new data, Fig. 3b-c; Extended Data Fig. 4a–d). Consistent with previous results, acta2:EGFP-positive cells surrounding the middle mesencephalic central arteries (MMCtA) were missing in pdgfrb mutants. At 21 dpf, we have also observed a mild dilation of these vessels, likely the earliest changes to generate aneurysms (new data, Fig. 3c).

      To extend the number of stages analysed in this study, we have also performed new tracer leakage experiments in juveniles (30 dpf) and found that aneurysms can be detected at this age when the 10 kDa tracer is used (new data in Fig. 5b–b′). Consistent with the adult stage phenotype, aneurysms were limited to the larger calibre vessels (arteries) in the brain. We have also observed hotspots, and upon quantification, we found fewer numbers in juveniles compared to adults, suggesting that severity of aneurysms and hotspots increase with age.

      Taken together, our results show that the aneurysms in pdgfrb mutants start appearing at late larval/early juvenile stages (~21 dpf) with observable dilations. By 30 dpf, aneurysms accompanied by small numbers of hotspots are observed, which exhibits significantly increased numbers by adulthood. This also correlates with reduced development and survival rate of pdgfrb mutants after 30 dpf (new data, Extended Data Fig. 1d–e).

      (7) The authors intended to analyze the BBB at later stages (line 128), but there is not a significant time difference between 2 months (Figure 2) and 3 months (Figure 3) considering that zebrafish live on average 3 years. Therefore, the selection of only two time-points, 2 and 3 months, to analyze BBB changes does not provide a comprehensive overview of temporal changes throughout the zebrafish's lifespan. How long do the pdgfb mutants live?

      Respectfully, zebrafish transition from juvenile stages to adulthood between 2 and 3 months and there are many significant differences in the physiology of this organism at these two ages. At 2 months, zebrafish are still juveniles undergoing metamorphosis with rapid growth and ongoing skeletal and vascular development. By 3 months, they are sexually mature adults and have much more developed cranioskeletal and vascular systems. Having said that, we take the reviewers important point that further temporal resolution would improve the study.

      We have performed new experiments in 1-month-old animals and provided comprehensive analysis of the vascular phenotypes occurring in pdgfrb mutants. These were very informative experiments analysing leakage using 10-kDa tracer injections and have significantly improved the study. We had previously provided experiments at 5-month-old adults as well (previously Fig. 4a–b and Extended Data Fig. 4a) and so now the study includes larval stages (7, 14 dpf), juveniles at 1 and 2 months and adults at 3 and 5 months. While the additional timepoints did not offer up any new conclusions, they significantly enhanced the body of work overall.

      Of further note, we provided survival data up to 90 dpf where survival of the pdgfrb mutants is significantly reduced compared to siblings (Extended Data Fig. 1e). We believe this is associated with the severity of the aneurysms and haemorrhages which probably lead to lethality in these mutants.

      (8) Why is there a difference in tracer permeability between 2 and 3 months (Figures 2 and 3)? Are hemorrhages not detected in 2-month-old zebrafish?

      In response to this and other queries, we have added new additional experiments that provide more detailed temporal analysis on tracer accumulation (new data in Fig. 5b–c, Fig. 5f–g).

      In short, we do not see obvious haemorrhages in 1- or 2-month fish at a gross level during dissections (not shown). We find that using 10-kDa tracer, we can detect small hotspots at aneurysms as early as 1 month, likely representing the earliest loss of integrity. We do not see obvious hotspots in 2-month-old animals when we use the 70-kDa tracer, this suggests to us that it is less sensitive for hotspot detection (in line with new Extended Data Fig. 2c). Finally, we find that the number of hotspots increases dramatically from Juvenile to Adult stages in our datasets, which we take as indicative of a progressive phenotype.

      Overall, tracer size matters for detecting hotspots and they become more apparent in older animals - we have added a note in the main text to cover these points (lines 200–205)

      (9) Figure 3: The capillary bed should be presented in magnified images as it is not clearly visible. Figure 3e shows that in the pdgfb mutant the dextran intensity is higher also in regions 6-10. How do the authors explain this?

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point.

      Firstly, we now include enlarged views of the capillary beds for this experiment (Fig. 4d′) and new experiments mentioned below.

      Secondly, in relation to why there is higher tracer in lateral locations and not just medial sites of haemorrhage, we believe that this is most likely due to the progressive spread of tracer from the medial hotspots. To test if this is likely, we performed additional experiments and tested tracer accumulation at 2 different timepoints in brains collected at 0.5 or 6 hpi (new data in Fig. 5f–g, Extended Data Fig. 6a–b′′). Tracer accumulation at 0.5 hpi was very minimal and was primarily limited to hotspots and nearby regions new data in (Fig. 5h), whereas a higher tracer accumulation in brains was observed across medial to lateral regions at 6 hpi (new data in Fig. 5i) in pdgfrb mutants. Comparing the data in Figure 4 (2 hpi) and new data in Figure 5i (6 hpi), the 10 kDa-tracer appears to have spread to more lateral locations given the increased time allowed post injection.

      We cannot formally exclude the possibility that tracer leakage does occur slower through capillaries than at major hotspots, which might fit with the proposed model of slow leakage via increased EC transcytosis[7-9]. However, considering that we cannot detect increased tracer accumulation in pdgfrb mutants that lack aneurysms and haemorrhages at 7 and 14 dpf, such a scenario would require capillary transcytosis to be active at later juvenile and adult stages but not in larval and late larval animals. Thus, we believe the most plausible explanation is that aneurysm/haemorrhage associated leakage is the primary cause of the vascular integrity defects in zebrafish pdgfrb mutants.

      We have added discussions addressing this in the revised manuscript (lines 220–230, 300–302).

      (10) In general, the manuscript would benefit from a more detailed description of the performed experiments. How long did the tracer circulate in the experiments presented in Figures 2, 3, and 4?

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion and have now ensured that this is clearly described for in figure legends and methods (lines 391–395).

      (11) How do the authors explain the poor signal of the 70 kDa dextran from the vasculature of 5-month-old zebrafish presented in Extended Data Figure 3?

      We agree that the dextran signal was reduced compared to the other experiments in that Figure. This is likely due to sample preparation and clearing causing reduced fluorescence. Upon consideration of the presented data and the additional experiments using 10 kDa tracers providing further validations for our claims, we decided to remove this data from the paper.

      (12) The study would benefit from a clear separation of the phenotypes caused by the loss of VSMC. The title eludes that also capillaries present hemorrhages which is not the case. How do vascular mural cells differ from mural cells? Are there any other mural cells?

      We take the reviewers point and have now updated the title as "Mural cells protect the adult brain from haemorrhage but do not control the blood-brain barrier in developing zebrafish."

      (13) I have a few comments about how the authors have interpreted the literature and why, in my opinion, they should revise their strong statements (e.g., the last sentence in the abstract).

      Scientists have their own insights and interpretations of data. However, when citing published data, it should be clearly indicated whether the statement is a direct quote from the original publication or an interpretation. In the current manuscript, the authors have not correctly cited the data presented in the two published papers (references 5 and 6). These papers do not propose a model where pericytes suppress "adsorptive transcytosis" (lines 73-76). While increased transcytosis is observed in pericyte-deficient mice, the specific type of vesicular transport that is increased or induced remains unknown.

      Similarly, lines 151-152 refer to references 5 and 6 and use the term "adsorptive transcytosis," but the authors of both papers did not use this term. Attributing this term to the original authors is inaccurate. Additionally, lines 152-153 do not accurately represent the findings of references 5 and 6. These papers do not state that there is an induction of "caveolae" in endothelial cells in pericyte-deficient mice. In the absence of pericytes, many vesicles can be observed in endothelial cells, but these vesicles are relatively large. It is more likely that there is some form of uncontrolled transcytosis, perhaps micropinocytosis. Please refer to the original papers accurately.

      We thank the reviewer for these comments. We take the point and have rewritten the manuscript carefully to improve accuracy and avoid misrepresenting any previous claims made in specific papers.

      Also, the authors have missed the fact that in mice, the extent of pericyte loss correlates with the extent of BBB leakage. To a certain extent, the remaining pericytes, can compensate for the loss by making longer processes and so ensure the full longitudinal coverage of the endothelium. This was shown in the initial work of Armulik et al (reference 5) and later in other studies.

      We certainly did not miss this important point (as we are also working with these mouse models) and we now include reference to this in our expanded discussion. Of note, we do think it would be worthwhile assessing if the extent of BBB leakage and pericyte coverage also correlates with the presence of microhaemorrhages in these hypomorphic mouse models, although this is more challenging to do in mice than in zebrafish.

      The bold assertion on lines 183 -187 that a lack of specific BBB phenotype in pdgfrb zebrafish mutant invalidates mouse model findings is unfounded. Despite the notion that zebrafish endothelium possesses a BBB, I present a few examples highlighting the differences in brain vascular development and why the authors' expectation of a straightforward extrapolation of mouse BBB phenotypes to zebrafish is untenable.

      In mice Pdgfrb knockout is lethal, but in zebrafish, this is not the case. In marked contrast to mice, however, zebrafish pdgfrb null mutants reach adulthood despite extensive cerebral vascular anomalies and hemorrhage. Following the authors' argumentation about the unlikely divergence of zebrafish and mice evolution, does it mean that the described mouse phenotype warrants a revisit and that the Pdgfrb knockout in mice perhaps is not lethal? Another example where the role of a gene product is not one-to-one, which relates to pericyte development, is Notch3. Notch3-null mice do not show significant changes in pericyte numbers or distribution, suggesting a less prominent role in pericyte development compared to zebrafish.

      Although many aspects of development are conserved between species, there are significant differences during brain vascular development between zebrafish and mice. These differences could reveal why the BBB is not impaired in zebrafish pdgfrb mutants. There is a difference in the temporal aspect when various cellular players emerge. The timing of microglia colonization in the brain differs. In mice, microglia colonization starts before the first vessel sprouts enter the brain, while in zebrafish, microglia enter after. Additionally, microglia in zebrafish and mice have a different ontogeny. In mice, astrocytes specialize postnatally and form astrocyte endfeet postnatally. In zebrafish, radial glia/astrocytes form at 48 hpf, and as early as 3 dpf, gfap+ cells have a close relationship with blood vessels. Thus, these radial glia/astrocyte-like cells could play an important role in BBB induction in zebrafish. It's worth noting that in Drosophila, the blood-brain barrier is located in glial cells. While speculative, these cells might still play a role in zebrafish, while the role of pericytes does not seem to be crucial. Pericytes enter the brain and contact with developing vasculature (endothelium) relatively late in zebrafish (60 hpf). In mice, the situation is different, as there is no such lag between endothelium and pericyte entry into the brain. I suggest that the authors approach the observed data with curiosity and ask: Why are these differences present? Are all aspects of the BBB induced by neural tissue in zebrafish? What is the contribution of microglia and astrocytes?"

      Another interesting aspect to consider is the endothelial-pericyte ratio and longitudinal coverage of pericytes in the zebrafish brain, and how this relates to what is observed in mice. How similar is the zebrafish vasculature to the mouse vasculature when it comes to the average length of pericytes in the zebrafish brain? Does the longitudinal coverage of pericytes in the zebrafish brain reach nearly 100%, as it does in mice?

      Based on the preceding arguments, it is recommended that the authors present a balanced discussion that provides insightful discussion and situates their work within a broader framework.

      Overall, we agree with most of the points made by the reviewer above. As we have now extended the format of this paper to be a full article, we have space to provide an extended discussion and introduction. We now try to capture many of the points made by the reviewer and we think that this has significantly improved the paper. We thank the reviewer for this contribution.

      We do want to point out that we did not state that our findings using zebrafish pdgfrb mutants invalidate mouse model findings. We suggest that a deeper analysis to understand the nature of the hotspots in mural cell deficient mammalian models could be very interesting in light of the zebrafish observations. We hope that the revised discussion better reflects this.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      This manuscript examines the role of pdgfrb-positive pericytes in the establishment and maintenance of the blood-brain barrier (BBB) in the zebrafish. Previous studies in PDGFB- or PDGFRB-deficient mice have suggested that loss of pericytes results in disruption of the BBB. The authors show that zebrafish pdgfrb mutant larvae have an intact BBB and that pdgfrb mutant adult fish show large vessel defects and hemorrhage but do not exhibit substantial leakage from brain capillaries, suggesting loss of pericytes is not sufficient to "open" the BBB. The authors use beautiful and compelling images and rigorous quantification to back up most of their conclusions. The imaging of the adult brain is particularly nice. The authors rigorously document the lack of BBB leakage in pdgfrbuq30bh mutant larvae and large vessel phenotypes (eg, enlargement and rupture) in pdgfrbuq30bh mutant adults. A few points would help the authors to further strengthen their findings contradicting the current dogma from rodent models.

      We appreciate the reviewer's comments on the manuscript overall and agree that addressing the raised points was needed to strengthen our findings. We have addressed the main points below and believe that this revision greatly improves this study.

      Major point:

      The authors document pericyte loss using a single TgBAC(pdgfrb:egfp)ncv22 transgenic line driven by the promoter of the same gene mutated in their pdgfrbuq30bh mutants. Given their findings on the consequences of pericyte loss directly contradict current dogma from rodent studies, it would be useful to further validate the absence of brain pericytes in these mutants using one of several other transgenic lines marking pericytes currently available in the zebrafish. This could be done using pdgfrb crispants, which the authors show nicely phenocopy the germline mutants, at least in larvae. This would help nail down the absence of any currently identifiable pericyte population or sub-population in the loss of pdgfrb animals and substantially strengthen the authors' conclusions.

      We thank the reviewer and agree that examination of pdgfrb<sup>uq30bh</sup> mutants using another transgenic line labelling pericytes would further validate the absence of brain pericytes. We generated a transgenic line, TgBAC(abcc9:abcc9-T2A-mCherry)<sup>uom139</sup>, to visualise pericytes and validated the absence of brain pericytes in the pdgfrb mutants (revised Extended Data Fig. 1b). The loss of brain pericytes matched our findings using TgBAC(pdgfrb:egfp)<sup>uq15bh</sup> line as well as previously published data by Ando et al 2016-2021, where the brain pericytes except for metencephalic artery were missing[2,3].

      Other issues:

      The authors should provide more information about the pdgfrbuq30bh mutant and how it was generated (including a diagram in a supplemental figure would be useful).

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. In addition to the explanations provided in supplementary materials, we have added a schematic, provided sanger sequencing results showing the mutation as well as predicted effect of the mutation on the protein domains (Extended Data Fig. 1a).

      It would be helpful to show some data on whether mutants show morphological phenotypes or developmental delay at 7 and 14 dpf, to provide some context to better assess the reduced branching and vessel length vascular phenotypes (see Figures 1c-e).

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. We have provided further details on body length and survival of the pdgfrb mutants until 90 dpf. As reported by Ando et al 2021, we did not observe any distinguishing feature until about 30 dpf[1,3]. The adult anatomy of our mutant allele matches that of previously described null mutants and is now shown (Extended Data Fig. 1f).

      If available, it would be helpful to have a positive control for the tracer leakage experiments - a genetic manipulation that does cause disruption of the BBB and leakage at 2 hours post-tracer injection (see Figures 1f and g).

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion and agree that a positive control would validate reliability of our method. We have performed new experiments at 3 dpf when BBB integrity is not yet established and at 7 dpf when BBB is functional in zebrafish[5], testing both 10 and 70 kDa tracers (new data in Fig. 2e–f). We detected significantly higher tracer accumulation at 3 dpf, showing that our methods can detect tracer leakage in the brain.

      Quantification of the findings in Figure 4c, d would be useful, as would the use of germline fish for these experiments if these are now available. If this is not possible, it would be helpful to document that the crispants used in these experiments lack pdgfrb:egfp pericytes at adult stages (this is only shown for 5 dpf larvae, in Extended Data Figure 4b).

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. Using TgBAC(pdgfrb:egfp)<sup>uq15bh</sup> line, we have imaged coronal brain sections collected from 10-week old pdgfrb crispants and uninjected siblings (age-matched animals used in Fig. 5d–e, previously Fig. 4c–d). We have now included data showing that adult pdgfrb crispants lack brain mural cells, phenocopying pdgfrb<sup>uq30bh</sup> mutants (new data, Extended Data Fig. 6f). These particular crispants are very reliable in our hands and nicely reproduce stable mutant phenotypes, giving us confidence to use the faster F0 approach in this experiment.

      Adult mutants clearly show less dye leakage in the more superficial capillary regions than WT siblings, but dextran intensity is a bit higher, although this could well be diffusion from more central brain regions where overt hemorrhage is occurring. Along similar lines though, the authors' TEM data in Extended Data Figure 4d hints that there may be more caveolae in mutant brain capillaries, although the N number was lower here than for the measurements from TEM of larger central vessels (Figure 4g). It would be useful to carry out additional measurements to increase the N number in Figure 4d to see whether the difference between wild-type sibling and mutant capillary caveolae numbers remains as not significant.

      We thank the reviewer for these raising important points and suggestions.

      Firstly, in relation to signal in capillary regions and likely diffusion from hotspots, please see the response to reviewer 3 point 9 above.

      Secondly, we have imaged and analysed more capillaries in both pdgfrb mutants and siblings (Extended Data Fig. 7a–b, previously Extended Data Fig. 4d). The results showed no significant difference between these groups, suggesting that capillary EC transcytosis is unchanged in our pdgfrb mutants.

      It might be helpful to include some orienting labels and/or additional descriptions in the figure legends to help readers who are not used to looking at zebrafish brain vessels have an easier time figuring out what they are looking at and where it is in the brain.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion and agree that adding further information in the figure legends and illustrations about orientation would make it easier for readers. In addition to the information provided in the figure legends in the submitted version, we have added an illustration, more labels on the revised figures, extended the descriptions in figure legends, main text and methods.

      We have added a schematic depicting the tracer leakage assay workflow, orientation of live imaging and analysed region of interest (Extended Data Fig. 1a–b).

      All figure legends have been updated with the anatomical position and microscopy view.

      Additional labels on figures have been added to understand the referenced vessel names (new data in Fig. 3c and Extended Data Fig. 4a–b′).

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The study uses the intensity of tracer signals within the vessels to analyze BBB permeability, potentially underestimating leakage severity. The dye intensity is measured 2 hours after injection, however, other studies have already observed leakage after 30 Minutes, by imaging directly in the brain parenchyma. The overall intensity should also decrease through leakage from the other vessels of the body, e.g. in the trunk and tail. Probably the loss of intra-vascular dye intensity from leakage in barrier-free vessels is already so high (after 2 hours) that the smaller amount of leakage across the BBB cannot be observed.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment and suggestion. We agree that small sized tracers leak from vasculature, particularly through fenestrated vessels in the trunk and tail. We have based our timing on previous studies and our own experience. In zebrafish, the study by O’Brown et al 2019 also used 2 hpi[5] for detection of leakage in mfsd2aa mutants, which also has been proposed to regulate BBB integrity by controlling EC transcytosis. Therefore, we believe that performing experiments at 2 hpi is appropriate to investigate roles of pericytes in BBB integrity. Our data would suggest that this timing works.

      In response to this and other comments, we performed further experiments and analyses to test leakage of tracers testing molecular weights ranging from 1 to 2000 kDa individually. We showed that these tracers can reliably be detected in brain parenchyma and vasculature when imaged at 2 hpi. In another study, we showed that medium size tracers such as 40 kDa Dextran can be reliably detected in the vasculature in similar timepoints[10]. Considering we have performed experiments using 10 and 70 kDa tracers do detect parenchymal tracer accumulation and tracer still within the vessels, we believe this timepoint is appropriate for assessing BBB integrity in zebrafish.

      In addition to these experiments, see our tracer leakage experiments in 1-month-old animals, at 0.5 and 6 hpi to test leakage pattern described above (Fig. 5 and Extended Data Fig. 6).

      Therefore, the authors will need to validate their method of choice, showing an impairment of the BBB, caused by other agents (known to affect the BBB), and at 48hpf, when the BBB is not tightened yet. One example for BBB impairment can be found in O'Brown et al (2019), eLife 8e47326. doi: 10.7554/eLife.47326

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. As shown by O’Brown et al 2019, we have performed experiments at 3 dpf when BBB integrity is not mature and at 7 dpf when BBB is functional[5], testing both 10 and 70 kDa tracers. We detected significantly higher tracer accumulation at 3 dpf, showing our new additional method (see below) can detect tracer leakage in the brain (new data in Fig. 2e–f).

      Ideally, the authors would also supplement the method with additional approaches in the younger developmental stages to validate their findings.

      The validation of the method and the findings is particularly important for the claims of lack of BBB impairment in the absence of mural cells, as this is a "negative" finding.

      In response to this and comments from other reviewers, we performed additional tracer leakage experiments (new data in Fig. 2a–d) where we imaged 10 and 70 kDa tracers with a vascular reporter (Tg(kdrl:EGFP)<sup>s843</sup> or Tg(kdrl:Hsa.HRAS-mCherry)<sup>s916</sup>) and used this reporter for normalisation. Both this approach as well as the experiments provided in the first submission (updated as Extended Data Fig. 3a–d) showed that pdgfrb mutants at 7 and 14 dpf have indistinguishable BBB integrity compared to siblings. See also Author response image 1 that further addresses this.

      I also strongly suggest to rephrase and downtown the claim that vascular mural cells do not control the blood-brain barrier in developing zebrafish.

      As a negative finding cannot be proven completely and lots of the previously shown effects on murine BBB impairment are rather weak (when caused by single agents such as Claudin5 deficiency or Sphingosine-phosphate receptor1 knockout), it might be important to only claim that in zebrafish no strong impairment (as observed in the mural cell-deficient mouse) could be observed. Or rephrase it to "no impairment as severe as/comparable to ... could be observed" and then provide an impairment control for the developmental stages.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment and agree that negative findings are very challenging to prove. However, we find no evidence of leakage of the BBB in animals lacking mural cells at 7 and 14 dpf and believe that our data is robust on this point. As such, we believe we show that a vertebrate with a largely conserved EC BBB, can have intact barrier function in the absence of mural cells.

      We have as suggested revised our claims throughout the manuscript to provide more further nuanced discussion of this, but we do not want to water down our claims too much as we believe they are important. We hope that the reviewer will appreciate our carefully worded and expanded discussion section.

      Additional items of interest to the readers and therefore suggestions to improve the manuscript could be

      (1) To include more molecular analysis: while the study identifies caveolae induction and basement membrane thickening as potential contributors to focal leakage, the exact molecular mechanisms linking mural cell loss to these structural changes are not deeply investigated.

      (2) Also, the study primarily associates BBB disruption in the adult with aneurysms. Therefore other subtle or diffuse changes to BBB permeability that might occur even without overt vascular lesions are potentially underrepresented.

      However, following up experimentally on these might exceed the scope of the manuscript.

      We thank the reviewer for these suggestions and agree with both points. However, as stated by the reviewer, these experiments are beyond the scope of the manuscript and represent future directions for our lab and others.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Mouse genes should be written as follows: Pdgfb, Pdgfrb and be in italics. See line line 70: it should be written "Pdgfb and Pdgfrb (italics)" and not "PdgfB and Pdgfrβ".

      We have updated the text according to the reviewer’s suggestion.

      (2) Please state the age of the fish analyzed in Figure 1f and 1g.

      We have moved this data to Extended Fig. 3a–d (previously Fig. 1f-g) and have placed age information on the images and in the figure legends.

      (3) Is the reduced vascular complexity in pdgfb mutant due to reduced angiogenesis or due to excessive pruning?

      This is a good question, and we do not know at this stage. We have unpublished data that suggest pericytes secrete angiogenic growth factors, but this question warrants a thorough investigation that we believe is beyond the scope of this current study.

      (4) Please check that the figure legends state the correct number of fish analysed. For example, Figure 1 d, e N=8 but there seem to be 9 data points per group - 14dpf.

      We apologise for this mistake and thank the reviewer for raising this. We have updated the graphs and figure legends accordingly.

      (5) Please indicate in the figures the genotypes (wt, het) of a sibling presented alongside a pdgfb mutant.

      Wild-type and heterozygous mutants are commonly used together in zebrafish research as a collective control group termed siblings. Since we didn’t see any difference between wild-type and pdgfrbuq30bh/- groups in any experiments, we reported these groups together. This is now stated in the supplementary materials.

      One exception to this was examination of the growth and survival rates where we show the genotypes separately (new data in Extended Data Fig. 1b-f).

      (6) Please explain clearly what region is shown in Figure 2B. I do not understand the explanation "approximate location of dotted line". Is the image in the panel "a" top view of a brain?

      We have moved this data to Fig. 3a′ (previously Fig. 2b) and replaced the dotted line in Figure 3a (previously Fig. 2a) with a white box indicating the location of the restricted region in the whole brain image.

      We have revised the text as below:

      “Subset of z-slices from the whole brain imaging in (a) and (b) (white boxes) indicating mural cell loss and abnormal capillary network patterning. 100-μm-thick maximum intensity projections (MIP) were generated using the continuation of the left middle mesencephalic central artery (MMCtA, arrow) as an anatomical landmark.”

      In addition, we have updated all our figure legends clearly stating the view and anatomical position of the imaged sample.

      (7) Figure 2e: Note that- the dotted areas do not correspond to the areas magnified. Please adjust.

      We have moved this data to Extended Data Fig. 5a (previously Fig. 2e–e′) and updated the location of the white box in 5a shown in enlarged view in 5a′.

      (8) Lines 112 and 114 - Should the indicated figure be Figure 2b-d and Figure 2c-d, respectively, and not Figure 1?

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out this mistake. All the figure legends are now referred to appropriately in the revised manuscript.

      (9) Data presented in Figure 2 and Figure 3 can be consolidated and presented as one Figure.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. After addition of new data and revising the manuscript we have decided to keep these data presented separately.

      (10) Note that Figure 2a,b shows 5-month-old fish, not 2-month-old fish. Additionally, Extended Data Figure 3 shows 5-month-old fish, not 3-month-old fish.

      The stages noted by the reviewer were correctly indicated.

      (11) Figure 2d: Please clarify the definition of a "large vessel".

      We have observed normal morphology in capillaries and noted aneurysms and hotspots in large calibre vessels such as arteries, which become more severe over time. We have revised this across the manuscript accordingly.

      (12) Figure 4a, b: Please explain how the hotspots of leakage were defined based on the extravasated tracer.

      Hotspots of leakage are scored when fluorescent tracer aggregates are clearly observed outside the vessels. Vessel borders were defined using the transgenic lines (Tg(kdrl:EGFP)<sup>s843</sup> or Tg(kdrl:Hsa.HRAS-mCherry)<sup>s916</sup>). We have added a clear description in the methods section (lines 473–475).

      Figure 4c: Why were Pdgfrb crispants used and not the mutant line?

      They were used as pdgfrb crispants phenocopy the lack of brain mural cells (Extended Data Fig. 5e, previously Extended Data Fig. 4b) and mutant phenotype reliably and for practical reasons, because they allow faster experiments and reduce fish usage.

      Figure 4e: The magnification of the electron microscopy images does not make it possible to clearly identify caveolae. What was the magnification of the collected images for caveolae analysis? How did the authors ensure that they quantified only caveolae and not other types of vesicles?

      Respectfully, we disagree that the magnification is insufficient as our images were captured and analysed consistent with previous ultrastructural descriptions[11,12]. We based our quantification of caveolae on the size of vesicles observed and define them as circular profiles of less than 100 nm in diameter and were scored as luminal or abluminal based on proximity to each surface membrane (within 500 nm of each surface or in a thin-walled vessel the caveolae closest to each surface) (lines 398–409). Importantly, comparable analyses at similar magnifications have been independently validated in multiple caveola-deficient zebrafish genetic models[4,13]. Interestingly given the reviewers comments above, we do see increased vesicular structures that are larger than caveolae, but we only provide quantification of the caveolae here.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Congratulations to the authors on their really beautiful imaging and rigorous quantitative documentation of phenotypes - this is a really nicely done study, and could be very important to the field with just a few additional experiments to buttress the key conclusions.

      We thank the reviewer for their kind comments.

      In addition to the comments noted in the public review, I would only point out that there are two mislabeled call-outs in the text (Lines 112 and 114; says Figure 1, should say Figure 2).

      We thank the reviewer for this point and have now revised the text accordingly.

      (1) Ando, K., Ishii, T. & Fukuhara, S. Zebrafish Vascular Mural Cell Biology: Recent Advances, Development, and Functions. Life (Basel) 11 (2021). https://doi.org/10.3390/life11101041

      (2) Ando, K. et al. Clarification of mural cell coverage of vascular endothelial cells by live imaging of zebrafish. Development 143, 1328-1339 (2016). https://doi.org/10.1242/dev.132654

      (3) Ando, K. et al. Conserved and context-dependent roles for pdgfrb signaling during zebrafish vascular mural cell development. Dev Biol 479, 11-22 (2021). https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ydbio.2021.06.010

      (4) Lim, Y. W. et al. Trans-Endothelial Trafficking in Zebrafish: Nanobio Interactions of Polyethylene Glycol-Based Nanoparticles in Live Vasculature. ACS Nano (2026). https://doi.org/10.1021/acsnano.5c21042

      (5) O'Brown, N. M., Megason, S. G. & Gu, C. Suppression of transcytosis regulates zebrafish blood-brain barrier function. Elife 8 (2019). https://doi.org/10.7554/eLife.47326

      (6) O'Brown, N. M. et al. The secreted neuronal signal Spock1 promotes blood-brain barrier development. Dev Cell 58, 1534-1547 e1536 (2023). https://doi.org/10.1016/j.devcel.2023.06.005

      (7) Armulik, A. et al. Pericytes regulate the blood-brain barrier. Nature 468, 557-561 (2010). https://doi.org/10.1038/nature09522

      (8) Daneman, R., Zhou, L., Kebede, A. A. & Barres, B. A. Pericytes are required for blood-brain barrier integrity during embryogenesis. Nature 468, 562-566 (2010). https://doi.org/10.1038/nature09513

      (9) Mae, M. A. et al. Single-Cell Analysis of Blood-Brain Barrier Response to Pericyte Loss. Circ Res 128, e46-e62 (2021). https://doi.org/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.120.317473

      (10) Lim, Y.-W. et al. A Standardized Protocol to Investigate Trans- Endothelial Trafficking in Zebrafish: Nano-bio Interactions of PEG-based Nanoparticles in Live Vasculature. bioRxiv, 2025.2007.2023.666282 (2025). https://doi.org/10.1101/2025.07.23.666282

      (11) Parton, R. G. & Simons, K. The multiple faces of caveolae. Nat Rev Mol Cell Biol 8, 185-194 (2007). https://doi.org/10.1038/nrm2122

      (12) Parton, R. G. & del Pozo, M. A. Caveolae as plasma membrane sensors, protectors and organizers. Nat Rev Mol Cell Biol 14, 98-112 (2013). https://doi.org/10.1038/nrm3512

      (13) Lim, Y. W. et al. Caveolae Protect Notochord Cells against Catastrophic Mechanical Failure during Development. Curr Biol 27, 1968-1981 e1967 (2017). https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2017.05.06

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors aim to investigate the mechanisms underlying Kupffer cell death in metabolic-associated steatotic liver disease (MASLD). The authors propose that KCs undergo massive cell death in MASLD and that glycolysis drives this process. However, there appears to be a discrepancy between the reported high rates of KC death and the apparent maintenance of KC homeostasis and replacement capacity.

      Strengths:

      This is an in vivo study.

      Weaknesses:

      There are discrepancies between the authors' observations and previous reports, as well as inconsistencies among their own findings.

      Before presenting the percentage of CLEC4F<sup>+</sup>TUNEL<sup>+</sup> cells, the authors should have first shown the number of CLEC4F<sup>+</sup> cells per unit area in Figure 1. At 16 weeks of age, the proportion of TUNEL<sup>+</sup> KCs is extremely high (~60%), yet the flow cytometry data indicate that nearly all F4/80<sup>+</sup> KCs are TIMD4<sup>+</sup>, suggesting an embryonic origin. If such extensive KC death occurred, the proportion of embryonically derived TIMD4<sup>+</sup> KCs would be expected to decrease substantially. Surprisingly, the proportion of TIMD4<sup>+</sup> KCs is comparable between chow-fed and 16-week HFHC-fed animals. Thus, the immunostaining and flow cytometry data are inconsistent, making it difficult to explain how massive KC death does not lead to their replacement by monocyte-derived cells.

      We thank the reviewer for the insightful comment and the opportunity to clarify this important point. To ensure consistency between our methodologies, we replaced Clec4f staining with TIM4 staining results as requested by the reviewer. We first showed the number of TIM4<sup>+</sup> cells per unit area in Figure 1B. The results showed a significant and progressive loss of TIM4<sup>+</sup> cells per unit area in the liver parenchyma, decreasing from approximately 60 cells/FOV at baseline (0w) to nearly 50 at 4w and further to about 30 at 16w post-HFHC diet. This finding is fully consistent with our flow cytometry data. The percentage of the embryonically derived KC population (CD11blow F4/80hi TIM4hi) among CD45<sup>+</sup> cells dropped from 30.2% (0w) to 24.3% (4w) and 17.6% (16w) (Revised Figure 1C). The absolute number per gram of liver decreased from roughly 12 x 10<sup>5</sup> (1w) to 9 x 10<sup>5</sup> (4w) and 5 x 10<sup>5</sup> (16w) (Revised Figure 1D).

      These data suggest that despite the reported high rate of cell death among CLEC4F<sup>+</sup>TIMD4<sup>+</sup> KCs, the population appears to self-maintain, with no evidence of monocyte-derived KC generation in this model, which contradicts several recent studies in the field.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s insightful comment. We agree that our data show no substantial generation of monocyte-derived Kupffer cells (MoKCs) within the 16-week HFHC model. However, we do not believe the remaining embryonic KCs(EmKCs) are maintained through self-renewal, as the proportion of Ki67<sup>+</sup>TIM4<sup>+</sup> cells remains low at all time points (Revised Figure S2D). Instead, our observations align with a phased replacement model: recruited monocytes first differentiate into monocyte-derived macrophages (MoMFs), which we see accumulate (Revised Figure S2B, S2C), and only later adopt a KC phenotype. Consistent with this, our 16-week model shows significant EmKC loss and MoMF expansion, but not yet the emergence of TIM4-MoKCs. This timing is supported by prior studies, where TIM4-KCs were observed at 24 weeks, but not at 16 weeks, on similar diets (Ref. 1,2). Therefore, we interpret our findings as capturing an earlier phase of MASLD progression, characterized by EmKC death and MoMF accumulation, prior to their full differentiation into MoKCs.

      Moreover, there is no evidence that TIM4<sup>+</sup>CLEC4F<sup>+</sup> KCs increase their proliferation rate to compensate for such extensive cell death. If approximately 60% of KCs are dying and no monocyte-derived KCs are recruited, one would expect a much greater decrease in total KC numbers than what is reported.

      Thank you for raising this point, which allows for an important clarification. The interpretation that approximately 60% of KCs are dying is correct, but this refers to the proportion of the remaining KC population at 16 weeks that is TUNEL<sup>+</sup>, not to 60% of the original KC pool. Since our data show that over half of the EmKCs are lost by 16 weeks (Revised Figure 1B), the 60% of dying cells at this late time point corresponds roughly to only 25-30% of the total original KC population at baseline. This distinction reconciles the high rate of apoptosis observed late in disease with the overall progressive depletion of the EmKC pool.

      It is also unexpected that the maximal rate of KC death occurs at early time points (8 weeks), when the mice have not yet gained substantial weight (Figure 1B). Previous studies have shown that longer feeding periods are typically required to observe the loss of embryo-derived KCs.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s insightful observation. We think KC death is a continuous event during MASLD. To induce MASH, previous studies typically assess the loss of EmKCs after longer feeding periods, which might leave us an impression that longer feeding periods are required to observe substantive loss of embryonically derived KCs. In our HFHC model, the proportion of dying KCs was already elevated by 8 weeks, and this high rate was sustained through the 16-week endpoint. In a separate MCD dietary model characterized by rapid MASLD progression, a high rate of KC death was detectable as early as 6 weeks (Revised Figure 1F). Collectively, these data suggest that the onset of significant KC death is dependent on the pace of MASLD pathogenesis, more likely an early-initiated event that is through MASLD progression.

      Furthermore, it is surprising that the HFD induces as much KC death as the HFHC and MCD diets. Earlier studies suggested that HFD alone is far less effective than MASH-inducing diets at promoting the replacement of embryonic KCs by monocyte-derived macrophages.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s insightful comment. In our study, we observed significant KCs death under both HFD and HFHC feeding for 20, 16 weeks, respectively. Moreover, both HFHC and HFD induced similar stages of MASLD (characterized by significant lipid accumulation without fibrosis development) by these time points (Authir response image 1). Therefore, these data support that the onset of substantial KCs death may be an early MASLD event, before the progression to MASH. Additionally, this finding aligns with existing literature showing that 16 weeks of HFD feeding alone is sufficient to cause a marked reduction in the TIM4<sup>+</sup>KCs population (Ref. 1).

      Author response image 1.

      Detection of liver fibrosis in MASLD mouse models. Male wild-type C57BL/6J mice were fed a high-fat, high-cholesterol (HFHC) diet for 16 weeks or a high-fat diet (HFD) for 20 weeks to induce MASLD. Mice fed a normal chow diet (NCD) served as controls. (A) Sirius Red staining of liver sections was performed to assess collagen deposition and fibrosis during MASLD progression. Scale bar, 20 μm. (B) Western blot analysis of liver tissue lysates showing α-smooth muscle actin (α-SMA) expression as a marker of hepatic stellate cell activation and liver fibrosis.

      In Figure 2D, TIMD4 staining appears extremely faint, making the results difficult to interpret. In contrast, the TUNEL signal is strikingly intense and encompasses a large proportion of liver cells (approximately 60% of KCs, 15% of hepatocytes, 20% of hepatic stellate cells, 30% of non-KC macrophages, and a proportion of endothelial cells is also likely affected). This pattern closely resembles that typically observed in mouse models of acute liver failure. Given this apparent extent of cell death, it is unexpected that ALT and AST levels remain low in MASH mice, which is highly unusual.

      Thank you for this important feedback. To address concerns about the clarity of our imaging, we have provided high-resolution split-channel raw images for Figure 2D (Revised Figure 2D), which distinctly show the localization of TIM4, TUNEL, and GS. These confirm the progressive reduction of TIM4<sup>+</sup>KCs and the increase in TUNEL<sup>+</sup> TIM4<sup>+</sup>cells over time. We agree that the high proportion of TUNEL<sup>+</sup>cells seems at odds with the modest ALT/AST elevation. This discrepancy might be explained by the distinct nature of cell death in MASLD. Unlike the acute necrosis with membrane rupture seen in acute liver failure—which causes massive, rapid enzyme release— obesity-related liver injury is a chronic process dominated by apoptosis (Ref. 4,5). Apoptosis preserves membrane integrity until late stages (Ref. 6), with dying cells packaged into apoptotic bodies for efficient phagocytic clearance by neighboring macrophages (Ref. 7,8). This controlled disposal system minimizes the leakage of intracellular enzymes. Therefore, the coexistence of widespread apoptosis (high TUNEL signal) with limited enzyme release (low ALT/AST) is a recognized feature of chronic MASLD pathogenesis.

      No statistical analysis is provided for Figure 5D, and it is unclear which metabolites show statistically significant changes in Figure 5C.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this statistical problem. We have now included statistical analysis in Revised Figure 5D.

      In addition, there is no evaluation of liver pathology in Clec4f-Cre × Chil1flox/flox mice. It remains possible that the observed effects on KC death result from aggravated liver injury in these animals. There is also no evidence that Chil1 deficiency affects glucose metabolism in KCs in vivo.

      We thank the reviewer for these important points. We previously characterized the liver pathology of Clec4f<sup>ΔChil1</sup> mice in detail (preprint: eLife 2025, DOI: 10.7554/eLife.107023.1, Fig. 2). On a normal chow diet, these mice showed no differences in body weight, hepatic lipid deposition, metabolic parameters, or glucose tolerance compared to controls. However, on an HFHC diet, Clec4f<sup>ΔChil1</sup> mice developed significantly worse metabolic and histological phenotypes. Crucially, our in vitro data demonstrate that recombinant Chi3l1 directly reduces KC death (preprint, Fig. 6E-F), indicating that the aggravated MASLD in knockout mice is a consequence of increased KC loss, not its cause.

      Regarding glucose metabolism, we have previously shown that Chi3l1 deficiency leads to increased glucose uptake by KCs in vivo using the fluorescent glucose analog 2-NBDG. This effect was reversed by supplementing knockout mice with recombinant Chi3l1 (preprint Fig. 6G-H). This provides direct evidence that Chi3l1 modulates glucose uptake in KCs in vivo.

      Finally, the authors should include a more direct experimental approach to modulate glycolysis in KCs and assess its causal role in KC death in MASH.

      We thank the reviewer for this constructive suggestion. To more directly evaluate the role of glycolysis in KCs death in vivo, we performed pharmacological inhibition of glycolysis using 2-deoxy-D-glucose (2-DG) in the HFHC-induced MASLD model (Revised Figure 4E–G). Wild-type mice were fed an HFHC diet for four weeks, and 2-DG (50 mg/kg) or vehicle was administered intraperitoneally every other day beginning at week 3. This short intervention period and modest dosing were chosen to limit potential systemic metabolic effects while modulating glycolytic activity during active disease development. KCs apoptosis was assessed by TIM4/TUNEL co-staining. 2-DG treatment significantly reduced the proportion of TUNEL<sup>+</sup>KCs compared with vehicle controls, indicating protection against KCs death. These data together with our complementary in vitro gain-of-function experiments, support a contributory role for excessive glycolytic activity in promoting KC apoptosis in MASLD. We have incorporated these findings into the revised manuscript to strengthen the causal link between glycolytic reprogramming and KCs loss in vivo (Revised manuscript, page 7, line 267-282).

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, He et al. set out to investigate the mechanisms behind Kupffer Cell death in MASLD. As has been previously shown, they demonstrate a loss of resident KCs in MASLD in different mouse models. They then go on to show that this correlates with alterations in genes/metabolites associated with glucose metabolism in KCs. To investigate the role of glucose metabolism further, they subject isolated KCs in vitro to different metabolic treatments and assess cleaved caspase 3 staining, demonstrating that KCs show increased Cl. Casp 3 staining upon stimulation of glycolysis. Finally, they use a genetic mouse model (Chil1KO) where they have previously reported that loss of this gene leads to increased glycolysis and validate this finding in BMDMs (KO). They then remove this gene specifically from KCs (Clec4fCre) and show that this leads to increased macrophage death compared with controls.

      Strengths:

      As we do not yet understand why KCs die in MASLD, this manuscript provides some explanation for this finding. The metabolomics is novel and provides insight into KC biology. It could also lead to further investigation; here, it will be important that the full dataset is made available.

      Weaknesses:

      Different diets are known to induce different amounts of KC loss, yet here, all models examined appear to result in 60% KC death. One small field of view of liver tissue is shown as representative to make these claims, but this is not sufficient, as anything can be claimed based on one field of view. Rather, a full tissue slice should be included to allow readers to really assess the level of death.

      Thank you for raising this point regarding data presentation. We analyzed full tissue slices and found that including a view of the entire slice at a standard magnification makes individual KC difficult to resolve (Author response image 2). To clearly represent the extent and distribution of KCs death across the liver tissue slice, we now include lower-magnification images that provide a wider field of view, allowing readers to assess the pattern across a larger tissue area (Revised Figures 1, 2, 6F).

      Author response image 2.

      Assessment of KCs death on full liver tissue slice. (A) Immunofluorescence staining was performed to detect Kupffer cell (KC) death in liver sections from mice fed an MCD diet for 6 weeks. Cell death was assessed by TUNEL staining (green), and KCs were identified by TIM4 staining (red). Nuclei were counterstained with DAPI (blue). Representative whole-tissue view is shown. Scale bars, 1mm.

      Additionally, there is no consistency between the markers used to define KCs and moMFs, with CLEC4F being used in microscopy, TIM4 in flow, while the authors themselves acknowledge that moKCs are CLEC4F+TIM4-. As moKCs are induced in MASLD, this limits interpretation. Additionally, Iba1 is referred to as a moMF marker but is also expressed by KCs, which again prevents an accurate interpretation of the data. Indeed, the authors show 60% of KCs are dying but only 30% of IBA1+ moMFs, as KCs are also IBA1+, this would mean that KCs die much more than moMFs, which would then limit the relevance of the BMDM studies performed if the phenotype is KC specific. Therefore, this needs to be clarified.

      We thank the reviewer for the constructive comments. For consistency, we have standardized our KC marker to TIM4 for all immunostaining data, aligning it with our flow cytometry analysis (Revised Figures 1, 2D, 6F). We have also clarified that IBA1 is expressed by hepatic macrophages (both KCs and MoMFs)(Revised Figure 2C, Revised manuscript, page 5, lines 182-183). Moreover, we also included the clarification that 60% of TIM4<sup>+</sup> KCs are TUNEL<sup>+</sup> versus 30% of total IBA1<sup>+</sup> cells further supports that KCs undergo death more readily than MoMFs (Revised manuscript, page 5, lines 186-189). We also acknowleged the limitation of BMDM studies in the Revised manuscript, page 8, line 332-340.

      The claim that periportal KCs die preferentially is not supported, given that the majority of KCs are peri-portal. Rather, these results would need to be normalised to KC numbers in PP vs PC regions to make meaningful conclusions.

      We thank the reviewer for this important point. We included the normalized data. At 8 weeks, the normalized death rate was significantly higher in periportal versus pericentral regions (p = 0.041), supporting increased periportal KC susceptibility during early MASLD. By 16 weeks, proportional death rates became comparable between zones (Revised Figure 2D, Revised manuscript, page 6, lines 194-201).

      Additionally, KCs are known to be notoriously difficult to keep alive in vitro, and for these studies, the authors only examine cl. Casp 3 staining. To fully understand that data, a full analysis of the viability of the cells and whether they retain the KC phenotype in all conditions is required.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s suggestions. To confirm the identity and health of isolated KCs in our in vitro studies, we showed that ~95% of primary isolated KCs are TIM4<sup>+</sup> (Revised Figure S3A). Furthermore, Calcein-AM staining confirmed that the remaining KCs under our experimental conditions are viable and healthy (Revised Figure S4A).

      Finally, in the Cre-driven KO model, there does not seem to be any death of KCs in the controls (rather numbers trend towards an increase with time on diet, Figure 6E), contrary to what had been claimed in the rest of the paper, again making it difficult to interpret the overall results.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. During our analysis, we indeed observed no reduction in KCs in the Clec4f cre control mice. This prompted us to consider that Cre insertion itself might influence KCs mainteinence. To investigate this, we performed TIM4/Ki67 co-staining, which revealed significantly higher numbers of proliferating KCs in Clec4f cre mice compared with C57BL/6J mice under NCD. Following HFHC feeding, KCs proliferation in Clec4f cre mice increased even further. These results indicate that Cre insertion enhanced KCs self-renewal in Clec4f cre mice,which contributes to maintenance of the KCs pool during MASLD (Revised Figures S8A and S8B). (Revised manuscript, page 9, line 363-370).

      Additionally, there is no validation that the increased death observed in vivo in KCs is due to further promotion of glycolysis.

      We thank the reviewer for this constructive suggestion. To more directly evaluate the role of glycolysis in KCs death in vivo, we performed pharmacological inhibition of glycolysis using 2-deoxy-D-glucose (2-DG) (Revised Figure 4E–G). Wild-type mice were fed an HFHC diet for five weeks, and 2-DG (50 mg/kg) or vehicle was administered intraperitoneally every other day beginning at week 3. This short intervention period and modest dosing were chosen to limit potential systemic metabolic effects while modulating glycolytic activity in KCs. KCs apoptosis was assessed by TIM4/TUNEL co-staining. 2-DG treatment significantly reduced the proportion of TUNEL<sup>+</sup>KCs compared with vehicle controls, indicating protection against KCs death. These data, together with our complementary in vitro gain-of-function experiments support a contributory role for excessive glycolytic activity in promoting KCs death in MASLD. We have incorporated these findings into the revised manuscript to strengthen the causal link between glycolytic reprogramming and KCs loss in vivo (Revised manuscript, page 7, line 267-282).

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      This manuscript provides novel insights into altered glucose metabolism and KC status during early MASLD. The authors propose that hyperactivated glycolysis drives a spatially patterned KC depletion that is more pronounced than the loss of hepatocytes or hepatic stellate cells. This concept significantly enhances our understanding of early MASLD progression and KC metabolic phenotype.

      Through a combination of TUNEL staining and MS-based metabolomic analyses of KCs from HFHC-fed mice, the authors show increased KC apoptosis alongside dysregulation of glycolysis and the pentose phosphate pathway. Using in vitro culture systems and KC-specific ablation of Chil1, a regulator of glycolytic flux, they further show that elevated glycolysis can promote KC apoptosis.

      However, it remains unclear whether the observed metabolic dysregulation directly causes KC death or whether secondary factors, such as low-grade inflammation or macrophage activation, also contribute significantly. Nonetheless, the results, particularly those derived from the Chil1-ablated model, point to a new potential target for the early prevention of KC death during MASLD progression.

      The manuscript is clearly written and thoughtfully addresses key limitations in the field, especially the focus on glycolytic intermediates rather than fatty acid oxidation. The authors acknowledge the missing mechanistic link between increased glycolysis and KC death. Still, several interpretations require moderation to avoid overstatement, and certain experimental details, particularly those concerning flow cytometry and population gating, need further clarification.

      Strengths:

      (1) The study presents the novel observation of profound metabolic dysregulation in KCs during early MASLD and identifies these cells as undergoing apoptosis. The finding that Chil1 ablation aggravates this phenotype opens new avenues for exploring therapeutic strategies to mitigate or reverse MASLD progression.

      (2) The authors provide a comprehensive metabolic profile of KCs following HFHC diet exposure, including quantification of individual metabolites. They further delineate alterations in glycolysis and the pentose phosphate pathway in Chil1-deficient cells, substantiating enhanced glycolytic flux through 13C-glucose tracing experiments.

      (3) The data underscore the critical importance of maintaining balanced glucose metabolism in both in vitro and in vivo contexts to prevent KC apoptosis, emphasizing the high metabolic specialization of these cells.

      (4) The observed increase in KC death in Chil1-deficient KCs demonstrates their dependence on tightly regulated glycolysis, particularly under pathological conditions such as early MASLD.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The novelty is questionable. The presented work has considerable overlap with a study by the same lab, which is currently under review (citation 17), and it should be considered whether the data should not be presented in one paper.

      We appreciate the reviewer for the opportunity to clarify the relationship between the two studies. In our previous work (citation 17), we focused on the transcriptional metabolic differences between Kupffer cells (KCs) and monocyte-derived macrophages (MoMFs) and identified Chi3l1 as a selective protective factor that limits glucose uptake and shields KCs from metabolic stress–induced cell death, with minimal effects on MoMFs. That study directly motivated the current work. The observation that KCs are uniquely protected from metabolic stress led us to hypothesize that excessive glycolytic activation itself may be a primary driver of KCs death, which forms the central question of the present study. Accordingly, the current manuscript shifts the focus from Chi3l1-mediated protection to the mechanistic role of hyperglycolysis in driving KCs mortality, using distinct experimental approaches and addressing a different biological question. Because the two studies address conceptually distinct aims—one defining a protective regulator of KCs survival and the other dissecting glycolysis-driven KCs death mechanisms—we believe they are best presented as separate manuscripts. Combining them into a single study would dilute the mechanistic depth and clarity of each story.

      (2) The authors report that 60% of KCs are TUNEL-positive after 16 weeks of HFHC diet and confirm this by cleaved caspase-3 staining. Given that such marker positivity typically indicates imminent cell death within hours, it is unexpected that more extensive KC depletion or monocyte infiltration is not observed. Since Timd4 expression on monocyte-derived macrophages takes roughly one month to establish, the authors should consider whether these TUNEL-positive KCs persist in a pre-apoptotic state longer than anticipated. Alternatively, fate-mapping experiments could clarify the dynamics of KC death and replacement.

      We thank the reviewer for this astute observation. As shown in revised Figure 2D, the proportion of TIM4<sup>+</sup>TUNEL<sup>+</sup>KCs peaks at 8 weeks after HFHC feeding and remains elevated at 16 weeks. However, examination of the corresponding single-channel TIM4 staining during this period reveals that the overall density of TIM4<sup>+</sup> KCs does not undergo abrupt or synchronous depletion. This temporal dissociation between sustained TUNEL positivity and relatively gradual KCs loss suggests that TUNEL-positive KCs do not undergo immediate clearance. Based on these observations, we agree with the reviewer that a substantial fraction of TUNEL-positive KCs likely persists in a prolonged pre-apoptotic or stressed state rather than undergoing rapid cell death. This interpretation is consistent with the absence of extensive KCs depletion or compensatory monocyte infiltration at these time points. Importantly, previous studies (Ref. 1,2) indicate that KCs are eventually lost as MASLD progresses, supporting the notion that KC death is a gradual process that unfolds over an extended time frame rather than acutely.

      (3) The mechanistic link between elevated glycolytic flux and KC death remains unclear.

      We thank the reviewer for this constructive suggestion. To more directly evaluate the role of glycolysis in KCs death in vivo, we performed pharmacological inhibition of glycolysis using 2-deoxy-D-glucose (2-DG) (Revised Figure 4E–G). Wild-type mice were fed an HFHC diet for five weeks, and 2-DG (50 mg/kg) or vehicle was administered intraperitoneally every other day beginning at week 3. This short intervention period and modest dosing were chosen to limit potential systemic metabolic effects while modulating glycolytic activity of KCs. KCs apoptosis was assessed by TIM4/TUNEL co-staining. 2-DG treatment significantly reduced the proportion of TUNEL<sup>+</sup>KCs compared with vehicle controls, indicating protection against KCs death. These data, together with our complementary in vitro gain-of-function experiments, support a contributory role for excessive glycolytic activity in promoting KC apoptosis in MASLD. We have incorporated these findings into the revised manuscript to strengthen the causal link between glycolytic reprogramming and KCs loss in vivo (Revised manuscript, page 7, line 267-282).

      (4) The study does not address the polarization or ontogeny of KCs during early MASLD. Given that pro-inflammatory macrophages preferentially utilize glycolysis, such data could provide valuable insight into the reason for increased KC death beyond the presented hyperreliance on glycolysis.

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful comment. Regarding KCS ontogeny, flow cytometry analysis (Revised Figure 1C) shows that KCs remain uniformly TIM4<sup>hi</sup> during early MASLD, indicating that monocyte-derived KCs (TIM4<sup>low</sup>) have not yet emerged at these stages. To address KCs polarization, we assessed the expression of M1-type (pro-inflammatory) markers (Nos2, Cxcl9, CIITA, Cd86, Ccl3, and Ccl5) and M2-type (anti-inflammatory) markers (Chil3, Retnla, Arg1, and Mrc1) in KCs isolated from WT mice fed a HFHC diet for 0, 8, and 16 weeks. As shown in revised Figure S5A, M1 markers progressively increase over time, whereas M2 markers remain unchanged or slightly decrease. This polarization shift is consistent with the increased glycolytic activity observed in KCs during early MASLD. Together, these data indicate that embryonically derived KCs undergo a pro-inflammatory polarization accompanied by enhanced glycolytic metabolism during early MASLD, providing mechanistic context for their increased susceptibility to metabolic stress–induced cell death beyond hyperreliance on glycolysis alone (Revised manuscript, page 7-8, line 307-321).

      (5) The gating strategy for monocyte-derived macrophages (moMFs) appears suboptimal and may include monocytes. A more rigorous characterization of myeloid populations by including additional markers would strengthen the study's conclusions.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. To improve the rigor of our analysis, we adopted gating strategies established in previous studies (PMID: 41131393; PMID: 32562600). Specifically, Kupffer cells were defined as CD45<sup>+</sup>CD11b<sup>+</sup>F4/80<sup>hi</sup> TIM4<sup>hi</sup> cells, while monocyte-derived macrophages (MoMFs) were defined as CD45<sup>+</sup>Ly6G<sup>-</sup>CD11b<sup>+</sup>F4/80<sup>low</sup> TIM4<sup>low/−</sup> cells, thereby excluding contaminating neutrophils and minimizing inclusion of circulating monocytes. Using this refined gating strategy, we observed a progressive reduction of KCs accompanied by a corresponding increase in MoMFs in WT mice during HFHC feeding (Revised Figures 1C and S2B–C), (Revised manuscript, page 4, line 154-163).

      (6) While BMDMs from Chil1 knockout mice are used to demonstrate enhanced glycolytic flux, it remains unclear whether Chil1 deficiency affects macrophage differentiation itself.

      We thank the reviewer for this important question. To determine whether Chi3l1 deficiency affects macrophage differentiation, we analyzed the expression of M1-type (pro-inflammatory) markers (Nos2, Cxcl9, CIITA, Cd86, Ccl3, and Ccl5) and M2-type (anti-inflammatory) markers (Chil3, Retnla, Arg1, and Mrc1) in Kupffer cells isolated from WT and Chil1<sup>-/-</sup> mice fed a HFHC diet for 0, 8, and 16 weeks. At baseline (0 weeks), Chi3l1 deficiency was associated with elevated expression of multiple M1 markers, whereas M2 marker expression was comparable between WT and Chil1<sup>-/-</sup> KCs. During MASLD progression, the pro-inflammatory signature in Chil1<sup>-/-</sup> KCs was further enhanced, while anti-inflammatory marker expression became dysregulated (revised Figure S5C). Together, these data indicate that Chi3l1 deficiency does not impair macrophage differentiation per se but biases KCs toward a partially pro-inflammatory, M1-like phenotype, providing additional context for the enhanced glycolytic flux observed in Chi3l1-deficient macrophages (Revised manuscript, page 7-8, line 307-321).

      (7) The authors use the PDK activator PS48 and the ATP synthase inhibitor oligomycin to argue that increased glycolytic flux at the expense of OXPHOS promotes KC death. However, given the high energy demands of KCs and the fact that OXPHOS yields 15-16 times more ATP per glucose molecule than glycolysis, the increased apoptosis observed in Figure 4C-F could primarily reflect energy deprivation rather than a glycolysis-specific mechanism.

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting this important point. We agree that KCs are highly metabolically active and that perturbations of OXPHOS can influence overall cellular energy balance. As noted in our response to comment #3, we further performed glycolysis inhibition assay by 2-DG in vivo, the protection of KCs observed following 2-DG in vivo (Revised Figure 4E-G) further provides evidence that increased glycolytic flux is not merely correlated with, but functionally contributes to KCs loss in

      MASLD.

      (8) In Figure 1C, KC numbers are significantly reduced after 4 and 16 weeks of HFHC diet in WT male mice, yet no comparable reduction is seen in Clec4Cre control mice, which should theoretically exhibit similar behavior under identical conditions.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. During our analysis, we indeed observed no reduction in KCs in the Clec4f cre control mice. This prompted us to consider that Cre insertion itself might influence KCs mainteinence. To investigate this, we performed TIM4/Ki67 co-staining, which revealed significantly higher numbers of proliferating KCs in Clec4f cre mice compared with C57BL/6J mice under NCD. Following HFHC feeding, KCs proliferation in Clec4f cre mice increased even further. These results indicate that Cre insertion enhanced KCs self-renewal in Clec4f cre mice,which contributes to maintenance of the KCs pool during MASLD (Revised Figures S8A and S8B). (Revised manuscript, page 9, line 363-370).

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      To address the concerns raised in the public review, the authors should:

      (1) Reassess their conclusions using the same panels in flow and microscopy, e.g., the combination of CLEC4F, TIM4, and IBA1. This will allow resKCs (CLEC4F+TIM4+IBA1+), moKCs (CLEC4F+TIM4-IBA1+), and moMFs (CLEC4F-TIM4-IBA1+) to be accurately defined and hence their viability and numbers correctly assessed.

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful suggestion. In our flow cytometry analysis, we did not detect a CD45<sup>+</sup>CD11b<sup>low</sup>F4/80<sup>hi</sup>TIM4<sup>low</sup> population, indicating that monocyte-derived KCs (moKCs) have not emerged in our model at this stage. To more accurately quantify resident KCs (resKCs) in the current study, we replaced CLEC4F with TIM4 staining and enumerated TIM4<sup>+</sup>as well as TIM4<sup>+</sup>TUNEL<sup>+</sup> cells. These data were highly consistent with CLEC4F<sup>+</sup>TUNEL<sup>+</sup>cell counts, confirming that moKCs are not involved in KCs death during early MASLD (Revised Figure 1A,B,E,F).

      (2) Investigate why the number of KCs in controls and MASLD are so distinct between Figures 1 and 6.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s suggestions. Like we explained above, Cre insertion promotes KCs self-renewal (Revised manuscript, Figure S8). This enhanced proliferative capacity likely accounts for the relative preservation of KCs numbers in Clec4f-Cre mice during HFHC feeding, explaining the apparent discrepancy with WT mice (Revised manuscript, Figure 6D-E).

      (3) Normalise the tunel+ cells based on the number of KCs in PP vs PC regions.

      After normalizing KCs death to KCs numbers in periportal (PP) versus pericentral (PC) regions, we found the proportion was significantly higher in PV regions compared to CV regions at 8 weeks of HFHC feeding. We have therefore revised our texts. (Revised manuscript, page 5, lines 194-201).

      (4) Demonstrate the viability of KCs in vitro across conditions.

      To confirm the identity and health of isolated KCs in our in vitro studies, we show that ~95% of primary isolated KCs are TIM4<sup>+</sup> (Revised Figure S3A). Furthermore, Calcein-AM staining confirmed that the remaining KCs under our experimental conditions are viable and healthy (Revised Figure S4A).

      (5) Confirm previous studies demonstrating different degrees of KC loss depending on the model of MASLD.

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting this point. Consistent with previous studies, KCs loss has been reported to varying degrees depending on the MASLD model used, reflecting the heterogeneity of hepatic macrophages, marker choice, mouse husbandry, and diet regimen. For example, in a 6-week MCD feeding model, ~10% of CLEC4F<sup>+</sup> KCs were TUNEL<sup>+</sup> (Figure 4A, Ref. 9). Another 6-week MCD study reported a drop from 66% to 26% TIM4<sup>+</sup> KCs (Figure 2A, Ref. 12). In an HFD model, TIM4<sup>+</sup> KCs decreased by ~20% after 16 weeks (Figure 1G, Ref. 1). In a Western diet model, TIM4<sup>+</sup>KCs decreased by >50% at 36 weeks (Figures 1J and 2C, Ref. 2). Together, these studies underscore the model-dependent nature of KCs loss and highlight the importance of experimental context and marker selection when assessing KCs dynamics in MASLD. We have included these studies in our discussion section (Revised manuscript, page 9-10, line 393-402)

      (6) Demonstrate in vivo that loss of CHIL1 drives further glycolysis in KCs.

      In Figure 6G-H of our previous study, we showed that Chi3l1 deficiency leads to more glucose uptake by KCs in vivo whereas suppelementing KO mice with recombinant Chi3l1 will significantly reduced glucose uptake by KCs through treating mice with a fluorescent glucose analog 2-NBDG. We included the related figure here as Author response image 3.

      Author response image 3.

      Chi3l1 limits glucose uptake by Kupffer cells in vivo. (A) Measurement of 2-NBDG (a fluorescent glucose analog) uptake by KCs in vivo. WT and Chil1<sup>-/-</sup> mice, either untreated or supplemented with rChi3l1, were injected intraperitoneally with 12 mg/kg 2-NBDG. After 45mins, KCs were isolated and glucose uptake assessed by spectrophotometry. (B) Representative immunofluorescence images of liver sections stained for TIM4 (red) and 2-NBDG uptake (green) to visualize glucose uptake by KCs in situ. Scale bar = 10 µm (zoom). Quantification is shown as the percentage of TIM4<sup>+</sup> cells that are also 2-NBDG<sup>+</sup>. Representative images were shown in B. One-way ANOVA was performed in A, B. P value is as indicated.

      (7) There is no mention of the publication of the metabolomics dataset; this should be released with the manuscript.

      We included the raw metabolomics dataset as Table S1 and S2 now.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Methods: Reconsider which methods are described in the main text versus the Supplementary Information to improve readability and consistency.

      Thank you for your valuable suggestion. We have reevaluated and adjusted the placement of the methods section between the main text and the supplementary materials.

      (2) Line 34: Check for grammar issues.

      L34 has been revised as follows : Additionally, using Chi3l1-deficient mice, we further demonstrated that increased glucose utilization accelerates KCs death in vivo.

      (3) Lines 101, 110: Explicitly reference the corresponding Supplementary Methods sections.

      We have included the references for these two methods sections (Revised supplementary materials and methods, Line 30, 65, respectively).

      (4) Figure 2: Iba1 marks all macrophages, not only monocyte-derived macrophages; both figure and text (line 205) require correction.

      We have corrected Iba1 represent hepatic macrophages including both KCs and MoMFs (Revised Figure 2C, manuscript page 5, line 182).

      (5) Line 218-219: Avoid overinterpretation, as only KCs, hepatocytes, and hepatic stellate cells were assessed - not all hepatic populations.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s valuable suggestion and rephrased our description accordingly (Revised manuscript, page 5, line 186-189).

      (6) Line 262: Use abbreviations consistently throughout the manuscript.

      We have gone through the whole manuscript and double checked the abbreviations.

      (7) Line 264: Include the palmitic acid (PA) concentration used.

      We included 800 µM PA in the revised manuscript (Revised manuscript, page 6, line 250).”

      (8) Lines 316-317: Check for grammar errors.

      Grammar errors are checked (Revised manuscript, page 8, line 340-341).

      (9) Line 337-338: See comment above on gating strategy.

      We updated gating strategy accordingly (Revised manuscript, page 9, line 361-362).

      (10) Line 343-344: Note that Chi3l1 is not exclusively expressed by KCs.

      We rephrased our words accordingly (Revised manuscript, page 9, line 374-378).

      (11) Lines 355-358: The statement that "sustained glycolytic hyperactivation culminates not in sustained activation, but in apoptotic cell death" is unsupported by data or literature, as macrophage polarization was not analyzed in this study.

      We removed the statement from the revised manuscript.

      (12) Lines 375-379: Rephrase to clarify that while KCs are metabolically active and glucose-demanding, excessive glycolytic flux accelerates apoptosis.

      We have rephrased to clarify (Revised Manuscript, page 10, lines 405-407).

      (13) Lines 375-385 & 387-397: Consolidate overlapping statements for conciseness and coherence.

      We have consolidate the overlapping statements (Revised manuscript, page 10, lines 405-425).

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    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      In this manuscript, the authors aimed to identify the molecular target and mechanism by which α-Mangostin, a xanthone from Garcinia mangostana, produces vasorelaxation that could explain the antihypertensive effects. Building on prior reports of vascular relaxation and ion channel modulation, the authors convincingly show that large-conductance potassium BK channels are the primary site of action. Using electrophysiological, pharmacological, and computational evidence, the authors achieved their aims and showed that BK channels are the critical molecular determinant of mangostin's vasodilatory effects, even though the vascular studies are quite preliminary in nature.

      Strengths:

      (1) The broad pharmacological profiling of mangostin across potassium channel families, revealing BK channels - and the vascular BK-alpha/beta1 complex - as the potently activated target in a concentration-dependent manner.

      (2) Detailed gating analyses showing large negative shifts in voltage-dependence of activation and altered activation and deactivation kinetics.

      (3) High-quality single-channel recordings for open probability and dwell times.

      (4) Convincing activation in reconstituted BKα/β1-Ca<sub>v</sub> nanodomains mimicking physiological conditions and functional proof-of-concept validation in mouse aortic rings.

      We thank the reviewer for acknowledging the strength of the different aspects investigated in our study.

      Weaknesses are minor:

      (1) Some mutagenesis data (e.g., partial loss at L312A) could benefit from complementary structural validation.

      In the attempt to improve structural insight for the presented mutagenesis data, we have used Alphafold3 (AF3; Abramson et al., 2024) to generate models of the I308A, L312M and A316P substitutions and repeated the docking for each (Fig. R1). According to these predictive models,

      The I308A substitution considerably straightens the S6 helix starting at this residue. Hence, all residues are displaced relative to the WT: C<sub>a</sub> of L312, F315, and A316 are displaced by 2.8 Å, 4.2 Å, and 4.6 Å, respectively, widening the bottom of the binding pocket. However, the prediction confidence is rated lower as in the other AF3 models for all helices (70 > plDDT > 50). In the docking, poses in the binding pocket comparable to these observed in the WT (i.e. involving I308A, L312 and A316) and with the same molecule orientation have higher binding energies (-7.13 to -6.66 kcal mol<sup>-1</sup>). Additionally, poses without contact to I308A arise that have a more vertical position, indicating that the structural change affects the binding region.

      The changes induced by L312M are localized to residues 313-323, where S6 bends towards S5. Binding energies are lower especially in the best 2 poses that are also most comparable to the WT docking (-9.88 kcal mol<sup>-1</sup>), but clustering overall is poor and poses are more heterogeneous. Interactions with L312M are completely abolished, while interactions with I308 (in 11/20 poses), F315 (in all poses), and A316 (in 5/20 poses) persist. Because of the rather small structural alteration induced by the substitution and the variable poses one could speculate that the reduced V<sub>½</sub> shift is due to the observed loss in binding to L312M; however, retained interactions to the other residues would still allow α-Mangostin to activate.

      A316P induces a displacement of the S6 helix compared to the WT while the other pore helices are not affected. S6 shows an enhanced outward bending around A316, which results in displacements of residues where a-Mangostin would bind, i.e., the C<sub>a</sub> of F315 and L312M are displaced by 2.4 Å and 2.8 Å (I308 is not affected). Residues below are moved in a more rotational way, resulting in a C<sub>a</sub> displacement of 3.1 Å for Y318 and even 5.7 Å for V319, before displacements decrease again towards the intracellular helix end. While interactions with A316P are present in 10/20 analyzed poses, the helix displacement seems to hinder I308 and L312 interactions, as the best docked a-Mangostin pose (-8.41 kcal mol<sup>-1</sup>) is predicted to only contact F315 and Y318, and overall, any I308 or L312 contacts only occurred in 3/20 and 7/20 poses (wildtype: 17/20 and 20/20 poses). This may hint at a mechanism where A316P probably has a substantial allosteric share in reducing the V<sub>½</sub> shift induced by a-Mangostin and underlines the exceptional effect of this mutation (i.e., complete loss of a V<sub>½</sub> shift).

      Author response image 1.

      Alphafold3 models of BK I308A, L312M, and A316P with α-Mangostin docked to the mutant structures. The upper row shows an overview of the mutant pore helices (AF3 models) used for molecular docking. The lower row shows the binding region with the wildtype structure overlaid in gray. Only 3 helices are shown for clarity.

      Although these results provide interesting tentative explanations for the effect of the mutations and conclusions from AF3 models become increasingly robust, we think that definitive statements of their mechanistic contributions would require experimental studies of mutant channels, i.e., cryo-EM or crystallography, that are beyond our means. Therefore, we have decided not to include this data in the manuscript; however, it is accessible for the interested reader within the public review. Hopefully, as cryo-EM structures have been obtained for the wildtype channel, there will be studies on mutations of this gating-relevant S6 segment in the future.

      (2) While Cav-BK nanodomains were reconstituted, direct measurement of calcium signals after mangostin application onto native smooth muscle could be valuable.

      We are not sure if a global elevation of cellular calcium concentration would be informative. We rather expect that the relevant local Ca<sup>2+</sup> elevation would occur as sparks in the BK-Ca<sub>v</sub> nanodomains, close to the membrane. We would anticipate a change in spark duration, as the Ca<sup>2+</sup> inward current would be stopped faster by the enhanced repolarization via a-Mangostin activated BKα/β1 channels. This would require fast Ca<sup>2+</sup> imaging acquisition speed to capture spark activity. We concur that this would be an informative experiment to investigate a more native situation. However, we would have to accomplish such methodologically challenging measurements in a separate project, which could fruitfully be combined with a more extensive characterization of aortic contraction as also suggested in the following remark (3).

      (3) The work has an impact on ion channel physiology and pharmacology, providing a mechanistic link between a natural product and vasodilation. Datasets include electrophysiology traces, mutagenesis scans, docking analyses, and aortic tension recordings. The latter, however, are preliminary in nature.

      We completely agree with the reviewer that there is ample room for further studies that could characterize different tissues important in blood pressure regulation (such as resistance arteries), elucidate even more physiological detail (such as modulatory effects of the endothelium), or look deeper into the pharmacology using chemically altered Mangostin derivatives. While we very much like this to happen in future projects, in this study we focused on the functional aspects of a-Mangostin in BK channel gating. We present our tension recordings as a proof-of-concept to underline the activity of a-Mangostin in native tissues, and we clearly show the importance of the BK channel by using iberiotoxin as a specific inhibitor which impressively abolished relaxation.

      References:

      Abramson, J. et al. (2024) “Accurate structure prediction of biomolecular interactions with AlphaFold 3,” Nature, 630(8016), pp. 493–500. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1038/s41586-024-07487-w.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In the present manuscript, Cordeiro et al. show that α-mangostin, a xanthone obtained from the fruit of the Garcinia mangostana tree, behaves as an agonist of the BK channels. The authors arrive at this conclusion through the effect of mangostin on macroscopic and single-channel currents elicited by BK channels formed by the α subunit and α + β1 sununits, as well as αβ1 channels coexpressed with voltage-dependent Ca2+ (CaV1,2) channels. The single-channel experiments show that α-mangostin produces a robust increase in the probability of opening without affecting the single-channel conductance. The authors contend that α-mangostin activation of the BK channel is state-independent and molecular docking and mutagenesis suggest that α-mangostin binds to a site in the internal cavity. Importantly, α-mangostin (10 μM) alleviates the contracture promoted by noradrenaline. Mangostin is ineffective if the contracted muscles are pretreated with the BK toxin iberiotoxin.

      Strengths:

      The set of results combining electrophysiological measurements, mutagenesis, and molecular docking reveals α-mangostin as a potent activator of BK channels and the putative location of the α-mangostin binding site. Moreover, experiments conducted on aortic preparations from mice suggest that α-mangostin can aid in developing drugs to treat a myriad of diverse diseases involving the BK channel.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out the significance of our study.

      Weaknesses:

      Major:

      (1) Although the results indicate that α-mangostin is modifying the closed-open equilibrium, the conclusion that this can be due to a stabilization of the voltage sensor in its active configuration may prove to be wrong. It is more probable that, as has been demonstrated for other activators, the α-mangostin is increasing the equilibrium constant that defines the closed-open reaction (L in the Horrigan, Aldrich allosteric gating model for BK). The paper will gain much if the authors determine the probability of opening in a wide range of voltages, to determine how the drug is affecting (or not), the channel voltage dependence, the coupling between the voltage sensor and the pore, and the closed-open equilibrium (L).

      We would like to take the opportunity to clarify this potential misunderstanding. In our manuscript, we have discussed three mechanistic explanations for the Mangostin activation: (1) an electrostatic effect at the selectivity filter, (2) structural and electrostatic changes of S6 that facilitate the opening of a putative lower gate, and (3) hydrophobic gating, i.e., counteracting dewetting of the pore. All possibilities would impact S6 and lower the free energy for pore opening, and we concur that therefore Mangostin most likely affects the closed-open equilibrium (L) of the BKα channel.

      The sentence at the original lines 470-471, “(…) caused by an enhanced shift of the closed-open equilibrium toward the open state, such as the stabilization of the voltage sensor in an active conformation” refers to the observation that the presence of the β1 subunit enhances this closed-open shift. The stabilization of the voltage sensor domain was mentioned as one example of how it achieves this. We recognize that this example was an unfortunate choice, as β1 rather facilitates Ca<sup>2+</sup>-dependent allosteric pore opening unrelated to the discussed mechanisms of Mangostin. We have therefore removed this statement.

      As to the suggestion to dissect the effect of Mangostin on C, D, and L, we agree with the reviewer that this would surely add to a full biophysical characterization. However, in our project, we strove towards including more experiments showing the physiological implications of Mangostin activation to emphasize the implication for vasodilation. We hope the reviewer understands that, with limited resources, this came at the expense of a full investigation of the different gating components, which could pose a separate project by itself.

      (2) Apparently, the molecular docking was performed using the truncated structure of the human BK channel. However, it is unclear which one, since the PDB ID given in the Methods (6vg3), according to what I could find, corresponds to the unliganded, inactive PTK7 kinase domain. Be as it may, the apo and Ca2+ bound structures show that there is a rotation and a displacement of the S6 transmembrane domain. Therefore, the positions of the residues I308, L312, and A316 in the closed and open configurations of the BK channel are not the same. Hence, it is expected that the strength of binding will be different whether the channel is closed or open. This point needs to be discussed.

      We apologize for the typing error and thank the reviewer for indicating this erroneous PDB ID. (“6vg3”). It should have read PDB ID 6v3g as in the legend to Fig. 4B. The reviewer appropriately points out that there are differences in the S6 segment addressed in our study between the two available cryo-EM structures obtained in the presence (PDB ID 6v38) and absence of Ca<sup>2+</sup> (PDB ID 6v3g) (Tao and MacKinnon, 2019).

      We had actually performed the docking with both structures, but chosen to show the Ca<sup>2+</sup>-free structure to better visualize the I308 position. a-Mangostin is found in the same S6 region in both, not obstructing the K<sup>+</sup> conduction pathway. The binding energies of the favored poses are very similar; the binding energy in the best-ranking conformational cluster in the Ca<sup>2+</sup>-bound structure even was slightly lower (-8.64 kcal mol<sup>-1</sup>) than in the docking with the Ca<sup>2+</sup>-free channel (-8.58 kcal mol<sup>-1</sup>; Fig. 4B), which may not be a relevant difference.

      We compared the residue interactions in both dockings (Author response table 1). S317 and Y318, which did not reduce the shift in V<sub>½</sub> upon substitution, were not predicted to contact a-Mangostin in either structure. In both structures, L312 and F315 were predicted to interact in virtually all poses analyzed. In the docking to the Ca<sup>2+</sup>-free state, also I308 was predicted to interact in 17/20 poses, while contacts to A316 occurred in 5/20 poses. In the Ca<sup>2+</sup>-bound state, predicted interactions shifted from I308 (which is expected as it is buried in the protein) to A316, and the isoprenyl moiety close to I308 rotated downwards. This could indicate that a-Mangostin adopts a more horizontal position following the upward reorientation of S6 in the Ca<sup>2+</sup>-bound state when the channel moves from one to the other conformation (Fig. S4).

      Author response table 1.

      Number of interactions of S6 residues in 20 analyzed α-Mangostin poses in the molecular dockings to the Ca2+-free and Ca2

      These docking results are consistent with our functional measurements. Recent structures of the BK/γ1 complex showed that the VSD and Ca<sup>2+</sup>-bowl are stabilized in an active-like conformation that corresponds to the conformation seen in the Ca<sup>2+</sup>-bound state (Kallure et al., 2023; Yamanouchi et al., 2023; Redhardt, Raunser and Raisch, 2024), indicating that very likely the Ca<sup>2+</sup>-bound and Ca<sup>2+</sup>-free structures indeed represent open and closed conformations of the channel. We observed that α-Mangostin can bind to both of these states to activate the channel (Fig. 3C, D), showing the presence of a binding site in both conformations. Further, α-Mangostin induced a left-shift in V<sub>½</sub> also in higher Ca<sup>2+</sup> concentration (Fig. 2D), indicating that it still binds to and activates the channel after the conformational change in S6. As we could not determine affinity for the mutants due to limited solubility, we have no information on the nature of the contribution of the substitutions, i.e., reduced binding or allosteric effect. As I308 is buried in the Ca<sup>2+</sup>-bound state, its contribution is likely mostly allosteric. We have also proposed dewetting as possible activation mechanism, which we expect to be less sensitive to the exact pose of a molecule (as shown for NS11021, Nordquist et al., 2024). Therefore, α-Mangostin could, e.g., change solvent accessibility of the I308 sidechain, energetically favoring the buried (open) state.

      We have now included both dockings and Author response table 1 in Fig. S4, and we have added passages to the results section (starting at line 373) and discussion section (starting at lines 544, 588).

      Minor:

      (1) From Figure 3A, it is apparent that the increase in Po is at the expense of the long periods (seconds) that the channel remains closed. One might suggest that α-mangostin increases the burst periods. It would be beneficial if the authors measured both closed and open dwell times to test whether α-mangostin primarily affects the burst periods.

      We thank the reviewer for this valuable suggestion, which we have implemented. In our single channel measurements shown in our original Fig. 3 we have not observed burst behavior of the BKɑ channels. This can be explained by the fact that we measured in resting condition (100 nM free Ca<sub>i</sub></sup>2+</sup>) and with rather mild depolarisation (+40 mV) where Po was very low. We have therefore analyzed measurements in 5 µM free a<sub>i</sub></sup>2+</sup> where we recorded sufficient burst activity also in the basal state.

      The burst analysis showed that ɑ-Mangostin indeed prolongs bursts and shortens the interburst closures. Within bursts, both closed times and open times were increased, and we recorded a higher number of opening events per burst. We conclude that ɑ-Mangostin acts in both the closed and the open state, where it slows open-closed transitions resulting in less flicker, and stabilizes the open state via longer open times and a higher probability for closed-open transitions.

      We now show this data in Fig. 3D-F and Table S8, and have accordingly added passages to the results section (starting at line 285), the discussion (line 510), and the methods section (starting at line 746).

      (2) In several places, the authors make similarities in the mode of action of other BK activators and α-mangostin; however, the work of Gessner et al. PNAS 2012 indicates that NS1619 and Cym04 interact with the S6/RCK linker, and Webb et al. demonstrated that GoSlo-SR-5-6 agonist activity is abolished when residues in the S4/S5 linker and in the S6C region are mutated. These findings indicate that binding of the agonist is not near the selectivity filter, as the authors' results suggest that α-mangostin binds.

      We will gladly clarify our ideas concerning the binding sites of other activators and ɑ-Mangostin. We first hypothesized that ɑ-Mangostin may share characteristics and mode of action with the class of negatively charged activators (NCA) that we have described before (Schewe et al., 2019). NCA were found to occupy a common fenestration site that is located close to the selectivity filter in TREK K2P channels, and in this manuscript we have shown by THexA competition and mutagenesis experiments that ɑ-Mangostin also binds in this fenestration region in TREK-1 channels (Fig. S3).

      The existence of this common NCA binding site was also proposed for BK channels, as a docking placed the NCA NS11021 in an equivalent binding region, and, among others, NS11021 and GoSlo-SR-5-6 competed with THexA for binding in the pore (Schewe et al., 2019). These results were indeed not fully in agreement with the proposed binding site of GoSlo-SR-5-6 in Webb et al. (2015), although the most effective (double) mutants were located at S317 and I323, at the intracellular end of the cleft between neighboring S6 segments. In this manuscript, we have shown that α-Mangostin is present in the pore of BK channels by molecular docking, a THexA competition assay, and two mutations that reduced the shift in V<sub>½</sub> induced not only by ɑ-Mangostin but also by GoSlo-SR-5-6 (Fig. 4). While the docking was rather a starting point, both functional tests argue against a binding site in the S4/5 linker/S6C region; however, allosteric mechanisms could still reduce activation also in mutants in the S4/5 linker/S6C region far from the pore binding region proposed by us in the 2019 study and the present manuscript.

      To summarize, we did not mean to imply that all BK activators should bind to this site, especially if they are not part of the NCA class (as NS1619, Cym4, as well as BC5, whose different binding site enabled us to use it as a control in our THexA competition assay). However, the cleft close to gating relevant S6 residues may well pose a region especially susceptible to modulator binding (as BL-1249, GoSlo-SR-5-6, and ɑ-Mangostin). We have moved, respectively separated, the initial GoSlo references from the reference to the pore binding site in the paragraph (lines329, 358) to improve clarity.

      (3) The sentence starting in line 452 states that there is a pronounced allosteric coupling between the voltage sensors and Ca2+ binding. If the authors are referring to the coupling factor E in the Horrigan-Aldrich gating model, the references cited, in particular, Sun and Horrigan, concluded that the coupling between those sensors is weak.

      We are grateful for the opportunity to improve this passage. We intended to express that observed effects (in this case the shift in V<sub>½</sub>) are pronounced around 1 µM Ca<sup>2+</sup>. As the reviewer states, the coupling factor between the voltage and calcium sensors (E; 2.4) is weak compared to the coupling of Ca<sup>2+</sup> (C; 8) and voltage (D; 25) to the pore in the Horrigan-Aldrich model. However, the shape of the Ca<sup>2+</sup>-dependence of V<sub>½</sub> cannot be completely described when E is neglected, with the highest difference around 1-2 µM Ca<sup>2+</sup> (Horrigan and Aldrich, 2002). Deletion of the gating ring underlines the allosteric sensor coupling (Clay, 2017). This together with the steep Ca<sup>2+</sup>-dependence in this concentration range (meaning high Po changes upon occupancy increase; Cui, Cox and Aldrich, 1997) explains the higher apparent activation, visible as the higher shift in V<sub>½</sub> observed at the 1 µM Ca<sup>2+</sup>. Speaking with the model of Sun and Horrigan (2022), the suppressing “molecular logic gate” is already relieved by the presence of intermediate Ca<sup>2+</sup>, and the direct “gating lever” pathway via voltage acts synergistically and achieves the observed higher V<sub>½</sub> shift upon depolarization. We have adapted the sentence and separated the citations for better understanding (lines 503-507).

      References:

      Clay, J.R. (2017) “Novel description of the large conductance Ca2+-modulated K+ channel current, BK, during an action potential from suprachiasmatic nucleus neurons,” Physiological Reports, 5(20), p. e13473. Available at: https://doi.org/10.14814/phy2.13473.

      Cui, J., Cox, D.H. and Aldrich, R.W. (1997) “Intrinsic Voltage Dependence and Ca2+ Regulation of mslo Large Conductance Ca-activated K+ Channels,” Journal of General Physiology, 109(5), pp. 647–673. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1085/jgp.109.5.647.

      Horrigan, F.T. and Aldrich, R.W. (2002) “Coupling between voltage sensor activation, Ca2+ binding and channel opening in large conductance (BK) potassium channels,” The Journal of General Physiology, 120(3), pp. 267–305. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1085/jgp.20028605.

      Kallure, G.S. et al. (2023) “High-resolution structures illuminate key principles underlying voltage and LRRC26 regulation of Slo1 channels.” bioRxiv, p. 2023.12.20.572542. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1101/2023.12.20.572542.

      Nordquist, E.B., Jia, Z., Chen, J., 2024. “Small Molecule NS11021 Promotes BK Channel Activation by Increasing Inner Pore Hydration.” J. Chem. Inf. Model. 64, 7616–7625. https://doi.org/10.1021/acs.jcim.4c01012

      Redhardt, M., Raunser, S. and Raisch, T. (2024) “Cryo-EM structure of the Slo1 potassium channel with the auxiliary γ1 subunit suggests a mechanism for depolarization-independent activation,” FEBS Letters, 598(8), pp. 875–888. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1002/1873-3468.14863.

      Schewe, M. et al. (2019) “A pharmacological master key mechanism that unlocks the selectivity filter gate in K + channels.,” Science, 363(6429), pp. 875–880. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1126/science.aav0569.

      Sun, L. and Horrigan, F.T. (2022) “A gating lever and molecular logic gate that couple voltage and calcium sensor activation to opening in BK potassium channels,” Science Advances, 8(50), p. eabq5772. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1126/sciadv.abq5772.

      Tao, X. and MacKinnon, R. (2019) “Molecular structures of the human Slo1 K+ channel in complex with β4,” eLife 8, p. e51409. Available at: https://doi.org/10.7554/eLife.51409.

      Webb, T.I. et al. (2015) “Molecular mechanisms underlying the effect of the novel BK channel opener GoSlo: Involvement of the S4/S5 linker and the S6 segment,” Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 112(7), pp. 2064–2069. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.1400555112.

      Yamanouchi, D. et al. (2023) “Dual allosteric modulation of voltage and calcium sensitivities of the Slo1-LRRC channel complex,” Molecular Cell, 83(24), pp. 4555-4569.e4. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.molcel.2023.11.005.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This research shows that a-mangostin, a proposed nutraceutical, with cardiovascular protective properties, could act through the activation of large conductance potassium permeable channels (BK). The authors provide convincing electrophysiological evidence that the compound binds to BK channels and induces a potent activation, increasing the magnitude of potassium currents. Since these channels are important modulators of the membrane potential of smooth muscle in vascular tissue, this activation leads to muscle relaxation, possibly explaining cardiovascular protective effects.

      Strengths:

      The authors present evidence based on several lines of experiments that a-mangostin is a potent activator of BK channels. The quality of the experiments and the analysis is high and represents an appropriate level of analysis. This research is timely and provides a basis to understand the physiological effects of natural compounds with proposed cardio-protective effects.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for appraising the achievements of our study.

      Weaknesses:

      The identification of the binding site is not the strongest point of the manuscript. The authors show that the binding site is probably located in the hydrophobic cavity of the pore and show that point mutations reduce the magnitude of the negative voltage shift of activation produced by a-mangostin. However, these experiments do not demonstrate binding to these sites, and could be explained by allosteric effects on gating induced by the mutations themselves.

      We are aware that our functional data are unfortunately not sufficient to clearly distinguish between effects due to affinity loss or due to allosteric mechanisms. Our attempts to generate complete dose–response curves for the mutants to determine accurate apparent IC<sub>50</sub> values were unfortunately limited by the solubility of the compound. Consequently, we have avoided making claims about affinity loss in the mutant analysis, and have instead only reported the reduction in potency, expressed as the shift in V<sub>½</sub>. To reduce confounding effects from the mutations themselves, we selected substitutions that preserved the most wildtype-like GV-relationships, based on the extensive mutagenesis work of (Chen, Yan and Aldrich, 2014). We address this matter also in our answer to Recommendation (6) below, and we have replaced the word “binding” in the title of the manuscript. Nevertheless, we consider the proposed binding region to be well supported by the THexA competition experiments in combination with molecular docking, even though the specific mechanistic contributions of individual residues cannot yet be resolved.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Natural xanthones as α-Mangostin induce vasorelaxation via binding to key gating residues in the S6 domain of BK channels.

      (2) If α-Mangostin occupies a similar binding site to quaternary ammoniums, what is the explanation for not observing a reduction in the single-channel current (fast blocking effect)? The α-Mangostin site proposed here is in a region of the channel that should occlude ion permeation. The authors should discuss possible explanations for this apparently contradictory observation.

      As the reviewer states, we indeed have not observed a reduced single channel amplitude in any measurement. The THexA competition assay showed that ɑ-Mangostin is present in the pore cavity and interferes with THexA access to its binding site. However, we do not think that their binding sites are similar, as QA ions bind directly below the filter entrance to block permeation, while our studies suggest that ɑ-Mangostin binds in the upper portion of the cleft between S6 helices. In this position, it would clearly overlap with the QA binding site and hinder access, but not block permeation. We would therefore not expect to see an amplitude reduction by intermittent α-Mangostin block. Consistently, all binding poses in our dockings were close to the cavity wall, without interfering with the central ion conduction pathway. To better illustrate this, we have added updated intracellular views of the dockings in the Ca<sup>2+</sup>-free and Ca<sup>2+</sup>-bound state (which we have also now included as suggested by another reviewer) to the supplementary information (Fig. S4A).

      (3) In Figure 2D, it is difficult to appreciate the differences between the symbols representing the G-V relationships of BKa channels at different intracellular Ca concentrations, before and after activation with 10 μM a-Mangostin. A clearer distinction between the curves would help to interpret the data more easily.

      We thank the reviewer for the suggestion to improve figure accessibility. We have changed the line appearance for better discrimination of the overlying portions.

      (4) Both THexA and TPA block BK channels through voltage and state-dependent mechanisms. Therefore, their apparent affinity could change if a-Mangostin simply increases open probability or alters dwell times rather than physically blocking access to the binding site.

      The reviewer addresses valid limitations that can affect the meaningfulness of competition experiments under certain conditions. However, we think that this does not apply to our results:

      Previous studies have shown that the voltage dependence of quaternary ammonium blockers up to C<sub>10</sub> is rather weak in BK channels, and only a slight increase in block is present in the voltage range +30 mV to +100 mV (Li and Aldrich, 2004; Thompson and Begenisich, 2012). Hence, THexA voltage dependence has already reached a plateau in the competition assay (at +40 mV), and its voltage dependence would have little effect on our results.

      Controversy exists about the nature of the state dependence of different quaternary ammonium blockers, but TBA is often recognized as an open channel blocker of BK channels, which probably also applies to THexA (Wilkens and Aldrich, 2006; Tang, Zeng and Lingle, 2009; Thompson and Begenisich, 2012; Posson, McCoy and Nimigean, 2013). Assuming such an open-channel block, apparent IC<sub>50</sub> values would be inversely proportional to Po. The THexA IC<sub>50</sub> was about 80 nM in the basal state, when Po is very low (0.024 at +40 mV as derived from the GV-relationship); an increase of open dwell times, respectively Po, in the presence of α-Mangostin to, e.g., 0.3 would therefore lead to a ≈10-fold decrease in apparent IC<sub>50</sub>. However, the apparent THexA IC<sub>50</sub> strongly increased rather than decreased (more than 20-fold to around 1.6 µM). This cannot arise from Po change and must reflect the altered access of THexA to its binding site caused by α-Mangostin. Assuming a pure closed channel block where apparent IC<sub>50</sub> would correlate with the closed times, an increase of about 1.4-fold is expected. However, we recorded a much stronger 20-fold increase. Therefore, we are convinced that we have conclusively shown that α-Mangostin is present in the BK pore irrespective of the state dependence of THexA block.

      (5) The pH dependence of the V1/2 shift supports the idea that α-Mangostin becomes more negatively charged at higher pH (enhancing its effect.) However, although the data are consistent with this interpretation, additional controls such as using a non-ionizable analog or assessing solubility changes with pH would be needed to confirm that the shift is caused specifically by ionization of α-Mangostin and not by indirect pH effects on channel gating.

      We agree with the reviewer that the pH experiment by itself is not sufficient to clearly tie the existence of a charge to a possible activation mechanism. We still think that this is an interesting observation and should be made known, as we have investigated the mechanism of negatively charged activators in different K<sup>+</sup> channel families before (Schewe et al., 2019). Unfortunately, we do not have access to uncharged derivatives mimicking the 3D conformation. From the commercially available substances, the bare xanthone backbone is completely insoluble in water. We have therefore tested the derivative 3-hydroxyxanthone as example with a minimal number of hydroxyl substituents (Author response image 2, Author response table 2 ). The 3-hydroxyxanthone indeed shows reduced activation compared to α-Mangostin. The shift in V<sub>½</sub> induced by 10 µM 3-hydroxyxanthone was only 14.99 ± 5.67 mV (≈50 mV for α-Mangostin). This supports that the presence of several (potentially) charged substituents is important for the activation mechanism. However, we have no knowledge about the efficacy of the compound or the local pK<sub>a</sub> of the different hydroxyl groups. As the reviewer stated, systematic chemical modifications would be necessary to elucidate the importance of the charged substituent number and positions, which is not within our capabilities.

      Author response image 2.

      Activation of BKα by 3-hydroxyxanthone. (A) GV-relationship before and after application of 10 µM 3-hydroxyxanthone. (B) V<sub>½</sub> before and after application of 10 µM 3-hydroxyxanthone compared to α-Mangostin and the resulting difference in V<sub>½</sub> (ΔV<sub>½</sub>). Measurements were conducted as described in the main manuscript with 100 nM free Ca<sub>i</sub><sup>2+</sup>.

      Author response table 2.

      Comparison of the V<sub>½</sub> ± SEM and ΔV<sub>½</sub> ± SEM before and after activation by 10 µM α-Mangostin or 10 µM 3-hydroxyxanthone in BKα channels. Unpaired t-test, two-tailed P values (α=0.05)

      (6) The reduced V1/2 shifts observed in the I308A, L312M, and A316PP mutants may result from intrinsic gating alterations rather than a true loss of a-Mangostin binding. The GoSlo-SR-5-6 control is informative, but the persistence of activation in A316P does not fully resolve this. A more convincing test would be employing double or triple mutants.

      As stated above, we acknowledge that our functional data do not allow us to definitively separate effects arising from a true loss of binding affinity from those due to potential allosteric effects. We tried to minimize intrinsic gating alteration brought by substitutions by not conducting a pure alanine or cysteine scanning mutagenesis. Instead, substitutions were chosen to be closest to the wildtype GV-relationship in (Chen, Yan and Aldrich, 2014) where possible. While L312M was virtually identical to the wildtype, A316P showed a change in slope in high Ca<sup>2+</sup> concentrations, which could indicate a changed voltage sensitivity. Additionally, A316P completely abolished α-mangostin activation. We therefore also used A316G to ensure that the channel is functional and retains voltage sensitivity, even if its V<sub>½</sub> was shifted stronger. As we have conducted paired measurements and assessed the V<sub>½</sub> before and after activation, we are confident that we can attribute a reduced shift to the reduced action of α-mangostin.

      Following the reviewer’s suggestion, we have generated and measured the double mutants I308A/L312M, I308A/A316G, and L312M/A316G (the triple mutant I308A/L312M/A316G did not produce measurable currents). The mutants I308A/L312M and I308A/A316G showed a moderate energy-additive effect and reduced the shift in V<sub>½</sub> by further ≈7 mV compared to the single mutation with the stronger shift. The combination L312M/A316G, however, did not further reduce the shift seen in the single mutations and did not even produce the shift induced by A316G alone.

      Author response image 3.

      Double Mutants I308A/L312M, I308A/A316G and L312M/A316G compared to the single mutations in the main manuscript. The V½ before and after activation with 10 µM α-Mangostin, the resulting shift in V½, and the GV-relationships are shown (n=6-7), measurements were made as in Fig. 4.

      Author response table 3.

      Summary of the V<sub>½</sub> before and after Mangostin activation and the resulting shifts in V<sub>½</sub> for the double mutants compared to the single mutants shown in the main manuscript.

      Following a suggestion by another reviewer, we have generated Alphafold3 (AF3) models for I308A, L312M and A316P and repeated the Mangostin docking. We learned that the mutations are all predicted to substantially impact the structure of the S6 helix, therefore altering the binding region, and A316P especially impacted the nature of residue interactions. This could be an explanation why the double mutants do not show a clear and consistent additive effect.

      Unfortunately, this outcome is not conclusive and the double mutants do not reveal further information compared to the single mutants. We have therefore decided not to include these measurements in the manuscript.

      As we do not know if our answers will be sent to all reviewers, we repeat the relevant part about the AF3 models here:

      (…) According to these predictive models,

      The I308A substitution considerably straightens the S6 helix starting at this residue. Hence, all residues are displaced relative to the WT: C<sub>a</sub> of L312, F315, and A316 are displaced by 2.8 Å, 4.2 Å, and 4.6 Å, respectively, widening the bottom of the binding pocket. However, the prediction confidence is rated lower as in the other AF3 models for all helices (70 > plDDT > 50). In the docking, poses in the binding pocket comparable to these observed in the WT (i.e. involving I308A, L312 and A316) and with the same molecule orientation have higher binding energies (-7.13 to -6.66 kcal mol<sup>-1</sup>). Additionally, poses without contact to I308A arise that have a more vertical position, indicating that the structural change affects the binding region.

      The changes induced by L312M are localized to residues 313-323, where S6 bends towards S5. Binding energies are lower especially in the best 2 poses that are also most comparable to the WT docking (-9.88 kcal mol<sup>-1</sup>), but clustering overall is poor and poses are more heterogeneous. Interactions with L312M are completely abolished, while interactions with I308 (in 11/20 poses), F315 (in all poses), and A316 (in 5/20 poses) persist. Because of the rather small structural alteration induced by the substitution and the variable poses one could speculate that the reduced V<sub>½</sub> shift is due to the observed loss in binding to L312M; however, retained interactions to the other residues would still allow α-Mangostin to activate.

      A316P induces a displacement of the S6 helix compared to the WT while the other pore helices are not affected. S6 shows an enhanced outward bending around A316, which results in displacements of residues where a-Mangostin would bind, i.e., the C<sub>a</sub> of F315 and L312M are displaced by 2.4 Å and 2.8 Å (I308 is not affected). Residues below are moved in a more rotational way, resulting in a C<sub>a</sub> displacement of 3.1 Å for Y318 and even 5.7 Å for V319, before displacements decrease again towards the intracellular helix end. While interactions with A316P are present in 10/20 analyzed poses, the helix displacement seems to hinder I308 and L312 interactions, as the best docked a-Mangostin pose (-8.41 kcal mol<sup>-1</sup>) is predicted to only contact F315 and Y318, and overall, any I308 or L312 contacts only occurred in 3/20 and 7/20 poses (wildtype: 17/20 and 20/20 poses). This may hint at a mechanism where A316P probably has a substantial allosteric share in reducing the V<sub>½</sub> shift induced by a-Mangostin and underlines the exceptional effect of this mutation (i.e., complete loss of a V<sub>½</sub> shift). (…)

      (7) The subtraction approach used to isolate BK currents (difference before and after a-Mangostin) assumes that the compound affects only BK channels. However, a-Mangostin could also modulate Cav currents directly, as reported for other polyphenolic compounds. No vehicle (DMSO) control is shown.

      We agree with the reviewer that α-Mangostin could also modulate Ca<sub>v</sub> currents; however, this would not interfere with the conclusions drawn from this nanodomain experiment. We intended to show the overall current modulation by ɑ-Mangostin in the voltage range relevant for Ca<sub>v</sub>-BK coupling, as this would be the determinant for the membrane potential mediating the vasoactive effect. In native tissue, BK and Ca<sub>v</sub> channels (among others) would likewise contribute to the net membrane conductance, with BK channels being a major contributor when activated. In fact, a concomitant inhibition of Ca<sub>v</sub> channels could act synergistically in favor of vasodilation. This could therefore be a subject for the further investigation of potential ɑ-Mangostin targets. However, the fact that iberiotoxin prevented relaxation in aortic preparations conclusively showed that BK channels are the major player in native tissue.

      We have reformulated some sentences to prevent misunderstandings that we refer to isolated BK currents instead of α-Mangostin activated currents.

      DMSO controls were conducted and did not impact BK or Ca<sub>v</sub>1.2 currents or the aortic tissue contraction. We have added representative measurements as Fig. S6 and stated the DMSO concentration in the Methods section (line 655).

      (8) Most kinetic fits were obtained at strong depolarizations (around +100 mV), which limits how well these results can be extrapolated to physiological voltages. Although the BK-Cav experiments show facilitation between -50 and +50 mV, providing plots for activation and deactivation in that range would strengthen the physiological relevance.

      We thank the reviewer for this valuable suggestion. We now additionally show that the impact of ɑ-Mangostin on activation is high at lower depolarisation, indeed underlining its physiological relevance. To address the activation time course in a more physiological voltage range, we have used our measurements of BKɑ channels in 10 µM Ca<sub>i</sub></sup>2+</sup> (where the V<sub>½</sub> shift induced by ɑ-Mangostin is equal to 100 nM ca<sub>i</sub><sup>2+</sup>+; Fig. 2D). The outward currents already present in the lower voltage range under these conditions allowed us to fit a monoexponential function to the traces of 0 mV to 100 mV prepulses. The τ of activation decreased from 29.6 ± 3.1 ms at 0 mV to 2.4 ± 2 ms at +100 mV. After ɑ-Mangostin activation, the time course was accelerated, with a τ of activation of 9.5 ± 4.7 ms at 0 mV to 2 ± 0.6 ms at +100 mV. This faster activation was particularly effective in the lower voltage range far from high Po, e.g., ɑ-Mangostin caused a decrease of more than half of the τ of activation at +20 mV (from 12.2 ± 0.6 ms to 4.98 ± 1.6 ms).

      Our data consists of families of different prepulse voltages and a fixed repolarisation step (to -50 mV for 100 nM free Ca<sub>i</sub><sup>2+</sup>, and to -100 mV for 10 µM free Ca<sub>i</sub><sup>2+</sup>). Thus, we are not able to add plots for the voltage-dependence of deactivation in the same way as for activation. However, we can present the deactivation time constants of lower prepulse voltage steps that produce outward currents in symmetrical ion conditions with 10 µM free Ca<sub>i</sub></sup>2+</sup>. For -20 mV and +20 mV prepulse voltages, which better reflect physiological depolarisation, the deactivation time constant shows a 3-to 5-fold increase after ɑ-Mangostin activation.

      We now show the plot for the voltage dependence of activation in Fig. S2A and a bar graph for activation/ deactivation time constants at +20 mV as Fig. S2B; data are summarized in Table S5. We hope this adds to illustrating the effect of ɑ-Mangostin under physiological conditions.

      (9) Minor: In several parts of the paper, induced shifts to negative voltages are referred to "leftward shifts". It would be useful to be consistent and employ a more specific reference to negative or positive directions.

      We thank the reviewer for the careful reading and have harmonized the terminology.

      References

      Chen, X., Yan, J. and Aldrich, R.W. (2014) “BK channel opening involves side-chain reorientation of multiple deep-pore residues,” Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 111(1), pp. E79–E88. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.1321697111.

      Li, W. and Aldrich, R.W. (2004) “Unique Inner Pore Properties of BK Channels Revealed by Quaternary Ammonium Block,” Journal of General Physiology, 124(1), pp. 43–57. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1085/jgp.200409067.

      Posson, D.J., McCoy, J.G. and Nimigean, C.M. (2013) “The voltage-dependent gate in MthK potassium channels is located at the selectivity filter,” Nature Structural & Molecular Biology, 20(2), pp. 159–166. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1038/nsmb.2473.

      Schewe, M. et al. (2019) “A pharmacological master key mechanism that unlocks the selectivity filter gate in K + channels.,” Science, 363(6429), pp. 875–880. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1126/science.aav0569.

      Tang, Q.-Y., Zeng, X.-H. and Lingle, C.J. (2009) “Closed-channel block of BK potassium channels by bbTBA requires partial activation,” The Journal of General Physiology, 134(5), pp. 409–436. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1085/jgp.200910251.

      Thompson, J. and Begenisich, T. (2012) “Selectivity filter gating in large-conductance Ca2+-activated K+ channels,” Journal of General Physiology, 139(3), pp. 235–244. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1085/jgp.201110748.

      Wilkens, C.M. and Aldrich, R.W. (2006) “State-independent block of BK channels by an intracellular quaternary ammonium.,” The Journal of General Physiology, 128(3), pp. 347–364. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1085/jgp.200609579.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study resolves a cryo-EM structure of the GPCR, GPR30, in the presence of bicarbonate, which the author's lab recently identified as the physiological ligand. Understanding the ligand and the mechanism of activation is of fundamental importance to the field of receptor signaling. This solid study provides important insight into the overall structure and suggests a possible bicarbonate binding site.

      Strengths:

      The overall structure, and proposed mechanism of G-protein coupling are solid. Based on the structure, the authors identify a binding pocket that might accommodate bicarbonate. Although assignment of the binding pocket is speculative, extensive mutagenesis of residues in this pocket identifies several that are important to G-protein signaling. The structure shows some conformational differences with a previous structure of this protein determined in the absence of bicarbonate (PMC11217264). To my knowledge, bicarbonate is the only physiological ligand that has been identified for GPR30, making this study an important contribution to the field. However, the current study provides novel and important circumstantial evidence for the bicarbonate binding site based on mutagenesis and functional assays.

      Weaknesses:

      Bicarbonate is a challenging ligand for structural and biochemical studies, and because of experimental limitations, this study does not elucidate the exact binding site. Higher resolution structures would be required for structural identification of bicarbonate. The functional assay monitors activation of GPR30, and thus reports on not only bicarbonate binding, but also the integrity of the allosteric network that transduces the binding signal across the membrane. However, biochemical binding assays are challenging because the binding constant is weak, in the mM range.

      The authors appropriately acknowledge the limitations of these experimental approaches, and they build a solid circumstantial case for the bicarbonate binding pocket based on extensive mutagenesis and functional analysis. However, the study does fall short of establishing the bicarbonate binding site.

      We thank the reviewer for this thoughtful and constructive assessment of our revised manuscript. We are grateful for the recognition of the overall quality of the cryo-EM structure and the proposed mechanism of G-protein coupling, as well as for highlighting the importance of identifying bicarbonate as a physiological ligand for GPR30 and the contribution this work makes to the receptor signaling field. We also appreciate the reviewer’s careful and balanced discussion of the inherent challenges posed by bicarbonate as a low-affinity, small, negatively charged ligand, and we fully agree that, given current experimental limitations, our data provide circumstantial—rather than definitive—evidence for the binding site and that higher-resolution structures would be required for direct visualization. Importantly, we value the reviewer’s acknowledgement that we transparently describe these limitations and that our extensive mutagenesis and functional analyses nonetheless build a solid case for the proposed bicarbonate-binding pocket, which we believe will serve as a useful framework for future biochemical and structural investigation

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Overall, the authors do a good job responding to the previous review, with updated structures and experimental data. I have two comments on the current version:

      (1) When the authors compare their structure to a previously published structure of the same receptor, they say that the previous structure came out while the current manuscript was in revision (line 255). This is not correct. The previous manuscript was published May 14, 2024, and the current manuscript was received by eLife on May 20, 2024. This sentence should be corrected to "During the preparation of this manuscript..."

      We corrected the sentence accordingly (line 259).

      (2) Line 173: what other structures are the authors referring to? Citations should be included here.

      Is Line 193 correct? We added citations (line 190).

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, "Cryo-EM structure of the bicarbonate receptor GPR30," the authors aimed to enrich our understanding of the role of GPR30 in pH homeostasis by combining structural analysis with a receptor function assay. This work is a natural development and extension of their previous work on Nature Communications (PMID: 38413581). In the current body of work, they solved the cryo-EM structure of the human GPR30-G-protein (mini-Gsqi) complex in the presence of bicarbonate ions at 3.15 Å resolution. From the atomic model built based on this map, they observed the overall canonical architecture of class A GPCR and also identified 3 extracellular pockets created by ECLs (Pockets A-C). Based on the polarity, location, size, and charge of each pocket, the authors hypothesized that pocket A is a good candidate for the bicarbonate binding site. To identify the bicarbonate binding site, the authors performed an exhaustive mutant analysis of the hydrophilic residues in Pocket A and analyzed receptor reactivity via calcium assay. In addition, the human GPR30-G-protein complex model also enabled the authors to elucidate the G-protein coupling mechanism of this special class A GPCR, which plays a crucial role in pH homeostasis.

      Strengths:

      As a continuation of their recent Nature Communications publication, the authors used cryo-EM coupled with mutagenesis and functional studies to elucidate bicarbonate-GPR30 interaction. This work provided atomic-resolution structural observations for the receptor in complex with G-protein, allowing us to explore its mechanism of action, and will further facilitate drug development targeting GPR30. There were 3 extracellular pockets created by ECLs (Pockets A-C). The authors were able to filter out 2 of them and hypothesized that pocket A was a good candidate for the bicarbonate binding site based on the polarity, location, and charge of each pocket. From there, the authors identified the key residues on GPR30 for its interaction with the substrate, bicarbonate. Together with their previous work, they mapped out amino acids that are critical for receptor reactivity.

      Weaknesses:

      When we see a reduction of a GPCR-mediated downstream signaling, several factors could potentially contribute to this observation: 1) a reduced total expression of this receptor due to the mutation (transcription and translation issue); 2) a reduced surface expression of this receptor due to the mutation (trafficking issue); and 3) a dysfunctional receptor that doesn't signal due to the mutation. In the current revision, based on the gating strategy, the surface expression of the HA-positive WT GPR30-expressing cells is only 10.6% of the total population, while the surface expression levels of the mutants range from 1.89% (P71A) to 64.4% (D111A). Combining this information with the functional readout in Figure 3F and G, as well as their previous work, the authors concluded that mutations at P71, E115, D125, Q138, C207, D210, and H307 would decrease bicarbonate responses. Among those sites,

      E115, Q138, and H307 were from their previous Nature Comm paper.

      Authors claim P71 and C207 make a structural-stability contribution, as their mutations result in a significant reduction in surface expression: P71A (1.89%) and C207A (2.71%). However, compared to 10.6% of the total population in the WT, (P71A is 17.8% of the WT, and C207A is 25.6% of the WT), this doesn't rule out the possibility that the mutated receptor is also dysfunctional: at 10 mM NaHCO3, RFU of WT is ~500, RFU of P71 and C207 are ~0.

      The authors also interpret "The D125ECL1A mutant has lost its activity but is located on the surface" and only mention "D125 is unlikely to be a bicarbonate binding site, and the mutational effect could be explained due to the decreased surface expression". Again, compared to 10.6% of the total population in the WT, D125A (3.94%) is 37.2% of the WT. At 10 mM NaHCO3, the RFU of the WT is ~500, the RFU of D125 is ~0. This doesn't rule out the possibility that the mutated receptor is also dysfunctional. It is not clear why D125A didn't make it to the surface.

      Other mutants that the authors didn't mention much in their text: D111A (64.4%, 607.5% of WT surface expression), E121A (50.4%, 475.5% of WT surface expression), R122 (41.0%, 386.8% of WT surface expression), N276A (38.9%, 367.0% of WT surface expression) and E218A (24.6%, 232.1% of WT surface expression) all have similar RFU as WT, although the surface expression is about 2-6 times more. On the other hand, Q215A (3.18%, 30% of WT surface expression) has similar RFU as WT, with only a third of the receptor on the surface.

      Altogether, the wide range of surface expression across the different cell lines, combined with the different receptor function readouts, makes the cell functional data only partially support their structural observations.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for their careful reading and thoughtful evaluation of our manuscript on the cryo-EM structure of the bicarbonate receptor GPR30. We greatly appreciate the reviewer’s positive assessment of the overall significance of combining structural determination with extensive mutagenesis and functional assays to advance understanding of bicarbonate–GPR30 interactions and G-protein coupling, as well as their recognition that these atomic-level insights will be valuable for future mechanistic studies and drug-development efforts. We are also grateful for the reviewer’s constructive critique regarding the interpretation of reduced signaling in the context of variable surface expression across mutants, which highlights an important point about disentangling effects of expression/trafficking from intrinsic receptor dysfunction; these comments are highly insightful and will help us strengthen the clarity and rigor of our presentation and conclusions in the revised manuscript.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      In this revision, the authors have made a significant effort to improve and validate the structural observations, as well as address the comments in the previous submission. They updated the functional assays and evaluated the receptor function by measuring intracellular calcium mobilization, which is a more direct measurement for the downstream signaling of hGPR30-Gq signaling. They also used flow cytometry with an HA-antibody for a more direct measurement of the surface expression of the receptor, replacing their previous assay that normalized to the housekeeping gene Na-K-ATPase.

      I appreciate the effort the authors made to address the previous comments made by the reviewers. However, there are still some concerns about the current data.

      (1) The authors have addressed my previous comment on untangling the mixture of their previous and new data in the "insights into bicarbonate binding" section. They have made it clear that the importance of E115, Q138, and H307 in the receptor-bicarbonate interaction was shown in their Nature Communications paper.

      (2) The authors have addressed my previous comment on adding some content about the physiological concentration of HCO3, or referring more to their previous work about the rationale to select the bicarbonate dose in their functional assay.

      (3) The authors have updated Figure 3

      (4) The authors have updated Supplemental Figure 1 to show the full gel with molecular weight markers in the supplemental data to demonstrate the sample purity.

      (5) The authors have updated the predicted model using AF3

      (6) The authors added E218A as suggested before.

      Some new suggestions for this R1:

      (1) The wide range of surface expression across the different cell lines, combined with the different receptor function readouts, makes the cell functional data only partially support their structural observations.

      We acknowledge this limitation. The wide range of surface expression among cell lines, together with differences in assay modalities, may introduce variability that complicates direct quantitative comparisons and therefore only partially supports the structural observations. Future work using more standardized expression systems and matched functional readouts will be important to strengthen the structure–function linkage.

      (2) Line 101, "ICL1 and ECL1 contain short α helices", no α helix of ICL1 is shown in Figure 2C

      We removed the word “ICL1” (line 98).

      (3) For the unsolved region of ECL2, could the author put a dashed line connecting ECL2 with TM4? In the current Figure 2B, it looks like ECL2 connects TM3 and TM5.

      According to the suggestion, we corrected Figure 2B.

      (4) I appreciate that the authors updated the predicted model with AF3, but they didn't make it clear why they had the comparison between their cryo-EM structure (bicarbonate-activated G-protein-incorporated GPR30) and the predicted AF3 model (inactive GPR30)

      We wish to assert the usefulness of experimental structures, not merely predictions. These include structures independent of receptor activation, such as SS bonds.

      (5) I appreciate that the authors have addressed my previous comment on adding some content about the physiological concentration of HCO3, but it was still not clear to me why they picked 11 mM in Figure 3G for the bar graph. Also, since a dose-response curve was made in Figure 3F, why not just calculate and report the EC50 of NaHCO3 for each mutant?

      Thank you for your comment. Thank you for the comment. We’ve calculated the EC50 of the calcium response and assessed its correlation with receptors’ cell surface expression. We chose 11 mM in Fig .3G since our previous paper in Nature Communications showed the EC50 value of IPs assay was around 11 mM. However, the calcium response was more sensitive and gave a lower value than expected. Therefore, according to your advice, we deleted the bar graph with 11 mM responses, calculated EC50, and drew pictures of the correlation among cell surface expression, EC50, and maximum responses (Figure 3F-I, Supplementary File 1). Moreover, we revised the explanation about this mutagenesis study (lines139-154 and 217-230).

      (6) In the previous submission and comments, E218 was in close contact with bicarbonate in the previous Figure 4D (the bicarbonate is deleted in the new structure). I thank the authors for making an E218A mutant and performing the functional assay. As mentioned above, E218A (24.6%, 232.1% of WT surface expression) has a similar functional readout as WT. Doesn't this also indicate that E218A is partially broken, so you will need twice as much as WT to have the same downstream signal?

      Thank you for your comment. In our revised manuscript, we described the correlation between cell surface expression and EC50 and found that cell surface expression and the response to bicarbonate are not correlated, which you mentioned in your review comment (Figure 3F-I, Supplementary File 1). There are many possibilities that could explain this: GPR30 localization in specific spots on the plasma membrane might limit the response stoichiometry, GPR30 might also work intracellularly to blunt the increased response because of more GPR30 expression on PM, redundant GPR30 on PM might be broken, or E118A might be less functional and need twice as much as WT. We will examine cell surface expression of GPR30 and its response to bicarbonate in a future study.

      I would suggest that the authors in future studies consider using the Tet-on inducible cell lines, such as HEK293 Flp-In Trex. These cell lines will allow the authors to fine-tune the surface expression of their mutants to the same level with different doses of Tetracycline in their stable cell lines.

      We appreciate your advice. We’ll introduce Tet-on inducible cell lines for future research.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary

      GPR30 responds to bicarbonate and plays a role in regulating cellular pH and ion homeostasis. However, the molecular basis of bicarbonate recognition by GPR30 remains unresolved. This study reports the cryo-EM structure of GPR30 bound to a chimeric mini-Gq in the presence of bicarbonate, revealing mechanistic insights into its G-protein coupling. Nonetheless, the study does not identify the bicarbonate-binding site within GPR30.

      Strengths

      The work provides strong structural evidence clarifying how GPR30 engages and couples with Gq.

      Weaknesses

      Several GPR30 mutants exhibited diminished responses to bicarbonate, but their expression levels were also reduced. As a result, the mechanism by which GPR30 recognizes bicarbonate remains uncertain, leaving this aspect of the study incomplete.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for this thoughtful and balanced assessment of our manuscript, including the clear summary of the central advance and the constructive identification of remaining limitations. We particularly appreciate the recognition that our cryo-EM analysis provides strong structural evidence for how GPR30 engages and couples with Gq, and we agree that pinpointing the bicarbonate-binding site remains a critical open question. In the revised manuscript, we will make this point more explicit, clarify the interpretation of the mutagenesis results in light of reduced receptor expression for some variants, and further strengthen the presentation and discussion of what our current data do—and do not—allow us to conclude regarding bicarbonate recognition by GPR30

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The authors have removed the bicarbonate assignment from their model and have addressed all of my concerns. In this study, or in future work, it would be advisable for the authors to explore the use of bicarbonate mimetics with higher binding affinity to facilitate more definitive structural characterization.

      Thank you for this constructive suggestion. We agree that exploring bicarbonate mimetics with higher binding affinity would be an important next step to enable more definitive structural characterization of GPR30 and to strengthen mechanistic conclusions. In future work, we plan to pursue the identification and/or design of such mimetics, guided by the architecture and mutational landscape of the extracellular pocket described here, and to combine these ligands with optimized cryo-EM sample preparation and complementary functional assays to better stabilize and visualize the bound state.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      We thank the reviewers and editors for their careful reading of our manuscript and thoughtful comments on it. We appreciate the overall positive opinion on our manuscript and helpful comments and suggestions from the reviewers. Overall, the main points identified by reviewers were 1) further broadening of the system to a range of inputs as well as the construct types that can be generated with the system and 2) Further consideration of any off-target joining or off-target effects on genes/proteins and the limits to the expandability of the kit. To address these concerns, we have added new data in Figure 6, illustrating the generation of a new construct using PCR and dsDNA fragments, new constructs for mpeg1.1 and for CRISPR gRNA expression and have revised the text to further address concerns and limitations of the toolkit. We thank the reviewers and editors for these suggestions and feel that they have substantially improved the manuscript.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors introduce ImPaqT, a modular toolkit for zebrafish transgenesis, utilizing the Golden Gate cloning approach with the rare-cutting enzyme PaqCI. The toolkit is designed to streamline the construction of transgenes with broad applications, particularly for immunological studies. By providing a versatile platform, the study aims to address limitations in generating plasmids for zebrafish transgenesis.

      Strengths:

      The ImPaqT toolkit offers a modular method for constructing transgenes tailored to specific research needs. By employing Golden Gate cloning, the system simplifies the assembly process, allowing seamless integration of multiple genetic elements while maintaining scalability for complex designs. The toolkit's utility is evident from its inclusion of a diverse range of promoters, genetic tools, and fluorescent markers, which cater to both immunological and general zebrafish research needs. Furthermore, the modular design ensures expandability, enabling researchers to customize constructs for diverse experimental designs. The validation provided in the manuscript is solid, demonstrating the successful generation of several functional transgenic lines. These examples highlight the toolkit's efficacy, particularly for immune-focused applications.

      We appreciate the overall positive evaluation of our toolkit and the time and effort in evaluating it.

      Weaknesses:

      While the toolkit's technical capabilities are well-demonstrated, there are several areas where additional validation and examples could enhance its impact. One limitation is the lack of data showing whether the toolkit can be directly used for rapid cloning and testing of enhancers or promoters, particularly cloning them directly from PCR using PaqCI overhangs without needing an entry vector. Similarly, the feasibility of cloning genes directly from PCR products into the system is not demonstrated, which would significantly increase the utility for researchers working with genomic elements.

      This is an excellent point. Given the increased use of gene synthesis and dsDNA fragments, we also thought it was good to demonstrate incorporation of these as well. We have added a new figure, Figure 6, which demonstrates generation of two new transgene constructs constructed by direct cloning of three PCR products along with a synthetic dsDNA fragment into a Tol2 flanked backbone plasmid as an alternative, rapid approach to generation of transgenes. The resulting plasmids, encoding the mpeg1.1. promoter, a separate p2a, and a tdTomato fluorescent protein along with either wildtype or dominant negative rac2 were properly assembled and in transient transgenic zebrafish injected with these constructs, dominant negative rac2 prevented macrophage recruitment to tail wounds, indicating that this approach worked for the generation of functional transgenes. These results are discussed in new text (lines 304-391) describing this new experiment and the finding that both PCR products and synthesized dsDNA could be efficiently incorporated in constructions generated with our approach as well as in the discussion (lines 494-499).

      The authors discuss potential applications such as using the toolkit for tissue-specific knockout applications by assembling CRISPR/Cas9 gRNA constructs. However, they do not demonstrate the cloning of short fragments, such as gRNA sequences downstream of a U6 promoter, which would be an important proof-of-concept to validate these applications. Furthermore, while the manuscript focuses on macrophage-specific promoters, the widely used mpeg1.1 promoter is not included or tested, which limits the toolkit's appeal for researchers studying macrophages and microglia.

      Yes, in the new figure described above, we have now shown that this method works with shorter PCR fragments such as the p2a fragment cloned within the tdTomato-p2a-rac2 constructs described above. This fragment is ~70 bp and while this is somewhat longer than a simple gRNA targeting sequence (though smaller than a complete sgRNA), we believe that this indicates that smaller size fragments can still be incorporated within these constructs. We also agree with the general idea of increasing functionality to incorporate CRISPR/Cas9 and now include a 3E encoding the zebrafish U6 promoter. As CRISPR expression constructs frequently incorporate complex construction, for instance, expression of tagged Cas9 along with the U6 driven gRNA as in Zhou et al., 2018 or along with rescue constructs as in Wang et al., 2021, we have given these constructs the non-standard 5’ end O3c, to enable multiplexing in these complex constructs.

      We agree that it is important to include mpeg1.1, given the broad use of this promoter within the field, we’ve now included an 5E mpeg1.1 construct within the toolkit.

      Another potential limitation is the handling of sequences containing PaqCI recognition sites. Although the authors discuss domestication to remove these sites, a demonstration of cloning strategies for such cases or alternative methods to address these challenges would provide practical guidance for users.

      Absolutely, we have now included a new figure (Supplementary Figure 6) that illustrates one domestication approach using PCR and homology-based cloning as an easy approach to domestication. In addition, we have also mentioned alternative approaches for domestication in the discussion (lines 439-444).

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Hurst et al. developed a new Tol2-based transgenesis system ImPaqT, an Immunological toolkit for PaqCl-based Golden Gate Assembly of Tol2 Transgenes, to facilitate the production of transgenic zebrafish lines. This Golden Gate assembly-based approach relies on only a short 4-base pair overhang sequence in their final construct, and the insertion construct and backbone vector can be assembled in a single-tube reaction using PaqCl and ligase. This approach can also be expandable by introducing new overhang sequences while maintaining compatibility with existing ImPaqT constructs, allowing users to add fragments as needed.

      Strengths:

      The generation of several lines of transgenic zebrafish for the immunologic study demonstrates the feasibility of the ImPaqT in vivo. The lineage tracing of macrophages by LPS injection shows this approach's functionality, validating its usage in vivo.

      We appreciate the positive sentiments for our toolkit and the effort put into reviewing our manuscript.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) There is no quantitative data analysis showing the percentage of off-target based on these 4bp overhang sequences.

      While we agree that this is an important variable for the method, we feel that previous studies that have broadly tested off-target effects of all potential 4 bp overhang sequences have already given an effective overview of interactions between each of these overhangs (Potapov et al., 2018; Pryor et al., 2020). The results from these studies were incorporated into the NEB ligase fidelity viewer that we used to predict the overhangs that would have minimal off-target with each other: the tool also reports the expected off-target ligation of individual 4 bp overhangs. In all cases, we selected overhangs that would have minimal off-target efficiency, with each of the overhangs showing 1% or less off-target ligation with any of the other overhangs chosen. We have added new text, lines 119-124, that further clarifies that our selection for these ends.

      (2) There is no statement for the upper limitation of the expandability.

      Yes, we’ve been curious as well. While our cloning of 6 distinct fragments in Figure 5 and a new 5 fragment cloning added in revision seen in Figure 6, suggests that 5-6 fragments can be readily assembled, in the course of revisions we also attempted to generate a larger product of 11 fragments that ultimately failed. While the 11 fragment construct was unsuccessful, it is unclear whether this is due to the constructs chosen, the potential size of the plasmid or due to a failure of the technique/enzymes themselves. Given that published descriptions of PaqCI Golden Gate cloning approaches have found that PaqCI can assemble at least 32 fragments and can produce large sequences (e.g. in Sikkema et al., 2023, where they assemble the ~40 kbp T7 genome from 12, 24 and 32 distinct fragments using a PaqCI Golden Gate reaction), we suspect that our issues with the 11 fragment assembly are likely due to complications with the specific group of constructs that were combined, however, we have not been able to exhaustively test a range of constructs and assemblies of varying complexity levels. To recognize this, we have added additional text (lines 490-493) to the discussion describing that we have only combined 6 constructs, but that we think that this likely encompasses many of the applications that may be needed for this system, while recognizing that expansion beyond this number may be possible.

      (3) There is no data about any potential side effect on their endogenous function of promoter/protein of interest with the ImPaqT method.

      Absolutely, we have added new text (lines 457-470) to our discussion describing the potential side effects on protein function. For instance, the need to be aware of whether N- or C-termini of proteins can be modified and recognition of the potential for affecting/creating ectopic transcription factor binding sites as potential pitfalls to keep in mind.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The data presented in the manuscript is robust and well-supported. However, to fully demonstrate the broad applicability of the toolkit and strengthen its impact, a few additional experiments could be beneficial. Specific suggestions for these experiments and areas of improvement are outlined in the 'Weaknesses' section of the Public Review. Additionally, Figures 2-4 illustrate the same concept - cloning three fragments from entry vectors-which comes across as repetitive. Incorporating a more diverse range of use cases would better highlight the versatility of the toolkit.

      As we described in our replies to your public points above, we have now added new Figure 6 and new Supplementary Figure 6 addressing the cloning of PCR fragments, short fragments as well as a mechanism of domestication. We have also included the mpeg1.1 promoter within the toolkit. In addition, your point on the repetition of assay is fair and in our new Figure 6, we instead used wild type and dominant-negative Rac2 expression and failure of macrophage recruitment to the tail wound.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Hurst et al. developed a new Tol2-based transgenesis system ImPaqT, it is interesting and potentially efficient, but I have a few concerns:

      (1) The author claimed that the ImPaqT system is more efficient than other existing systems. The authors should provide such data to support their claim.

      Our argument wouldn’t be that the ImPaqT system is strictly speaking more efficient, but rather that the combination of minimal added sequence, the ability to expand or contract the fragments used, and, in our new Figure 6, the ability to directly utilize PCR products and dsDNA fragments, while retaining the ability to combinatorially build constructs from a suite of existing sequences is the main point of the method. We now explicitly state that Golden Gate cloning isn’t more efficient than existing techniques in the text (lines 534-537), but rather the particular strength of the method is the flexibility and minimal added sequence.

      (2) The ImPaqT is theoretically less prone to have off-target effects than existing systems, the authors should provide such data to validate their claim.

      Good point, we have now searched the zebrafish genome for PaqCI sites as well as for BsaI and BsmBI which are the 6-base cutters most commonly used for Golden Gate cloning. We found that PaqCI cuts every ~17 kb in the zebrafish genome while BsaI and BsmBI cut every ~9 kb or ~13 kb respectively, further supporting that PaqCI sites are rarer in the genome and should generally require domestication less often. We have now added new text describing this in lines 129-132.

      (3) The authors should mention any potential side effects of this system on the endogenous function of the promoter/protein of interest, at least in their discussion part.

      Yes, this should absolutely be expanded, as we said in your public comments above, we have now added new text describing potential pitfalls that this method may have on promoter or gene expression.

      (4) The authors are suggested to provide a balanced discussion about the expandable usage of this system beyond the immune system.

      We agree, this is also a good point that we should have emphasized more. We’ve added new text (lines 537-541) recognizing that in principle, many of the components we’ve derived should be useful in non-immune systems, but we also recognize that adapting this to new tissues will require the development of new promoters within the Golden Gate system which can be combined with these already developed tools.

      References

      Potapov, V., Ong, J.L., Kucera, R.B., Langhorst, B.W., Bilotti, K., Pryor, J.M., Cantor, E.J., Canton, B., Knight, T.F., Evans, T.C., Jr., et al. (2018). Comprehensive Profiling of Four Base Overhang Ligation Fidelity by T4 DNA Ligase and Application to DNA Assembly. ACS Synth Biol 7, 2665-2674.

      Pryor, J.M., Potapov, V., Kucera, R.B., Bilotti, K., Cantor, E.J., and Lohman, G.J.S. (2020). Enabling one-pot Golden Gate assemblies of unprecedented complexity using data-optimized assembly design. PLoS One 15, e0238592.

      Sikkema, A.P., Tabatabaei, S.K., Lee, Y.J., Lund, S., and Lohman, G.J.S. (2023). High-Complexity One-Pot Golden Gate Assembly. Curr Protoc 3, e882.

      Wang, Y., Hsu, A.Y., Walton, E.M., Park, S.J., Syahirah, R., Wang, T., Zhou, W., Ding, C., Lemke, A.P., Zhang, G., et al. (2021). A robust and flexible CRISPR/Cas9-based system for neutrophilspecific gene inactivation in zebrafish. J Cell Sci 134.

      Zhou, W., Cao, L., Jeffries, J., Zhu, X., Staiger, C.J., and Deng, Q. (2018). Neutrophil-specific knockout demonstrates a role for mitochondria in regulating neutrophil motility in zebrafish. Dis Model Mech 11.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The main weakness of this paper, in my view, is that it felt disconnected from the larger body of work on fitness and genotype-phenotype landscapes, including previous data on TFBSs in E. coli, genotype-phenotype maps of TFBSs in other systems, protein sequence landscapes (e.g., from mutational scans or combinatorially-complete libraries), and fitness landscapes of genomic mutations (e.g., combinatorially-complete landscapes of antibiotic resistance alleles). I have no doubt the authors are experts in this literature, and they probably cite most of it already given the enormous number of references. But they don't systematically introduce and summarize what was already known from all that work, and how their present study builds on it, in the Abstract and Introduction, which left me wondering for most of the paper why this project was necessary. Eventually, the authors do address most of these points, but not until the end, in the Discussion. Readers who have no familiarity with this literature might read this paper thinking that it's the first paper ever to study topography and evolutionary paths on genotype-phenotype landscapes, which is not true.

      There were two points that made this especially confusing for me. First, in order to choose which nucleotides in the binding sites to vary, the authors invoke existing data on the diversity of these sequences (position-weight matrices from RegulonDB). But since those PWMs can imply a genotype-phenotype map themselves, an obvious question I think the authors needed to have answered right away in the Introduction is why it is insufficient for their question. They only make a brief remark much later in the Results that the PWM data is just observed sequence diversity and doesn't directly reflect the regulation strength of every possible TFBS sequence. But that is too subtle in my opinion, and such a critical motivation for their study that it should be a major point in the Introduction.

      The second point where the lack of motivation in the Introduction created confusion for me was that they report enormous levels of sign epistasis in their data, to the point where these landscapes look like random uncorrelated landscapes. That was really surprising to me since it contrasts with other empirical landscape data I'm familiar with. It was only in the Discussion that I found some significant explanation of this - namely that this could be a difference between prokaryotic TFBSs, as this paper studies, and the eukaryotic TFBSs that have been the focus of many (almost all?) previous work. If that is in fact the case - that almost all previous studies have focused on eukaryotic TFBSs or other kinds of landscapes, and this is the first to do a systematic test of prokaryotic TFBS, then that should be a clear point made in the Abstract and Introduction. (I find a comparable statement only in the very last paragraph of the Discussion.) If that's the case, then I would also find that point to be a much stronger, more specific conclusion of this paper to emphasize than the more general result of observing epistasis and contingency (as is currently emphasized in the Abstract), which has been discussed in tons of other papers. This raises all sorts of exciting questions for future studies - why do the landscapes of prokaryotic TFBSs differ so dramatically from almost all the other landscapes we've observed in biology? What does that mean for the evolutionary dynamics of these different systems?

      We thank the reviewer for this thoughtful and detailed critique. We agree that the original version of the manuscript did not sufficiently motivate the study early on, nor did it clearly position our work within the broader literature on genotype–phenotype (GP) and fitness landscapes. We also agree that two specific issues, the role of PWMs and the unexpectedly high levels of sign epistasis, were insufficiently explained early on, which could lead to confusion for readers not already familiar with this field.

      Positioning within the broader landscape literature

      In response, we have substantially revised the Abstract and Introduction to explicitly situate our work within existing empirical studies of GP and fitness landscapes, including TFBS landscapes in bacteria, eukaryotic TFBS genotype–phenotype maps, in vitro TF–DNA binding studies, deep mutational scans of proteins, and combinatorially complete fitness landscapes such as antibiotic resistance alleles (Abstract; Introduction, lines 64–85). We now make clear that our study builds directly on this extensive body of work, rather than introducing the landscape framework itself. For example, we write in the introduction:

      “Over the last decade, genotype–phenotype (GP) maps and fitness landscapes have become central tools for understanding how molecular systems evolve under mutation and selection[22–25]. Such maps and landscapes have been experimentally studied for DNA[6,8,18,19,26,27], protein[28–32] and RNA[33–35] molecules, revealing key topographical properties that shape evolutionary outcomes, including epistasis[24,36]—the non-additive effects of multiple mutations on phenotype—landscape ruggedness, reflected in the number and distribution of fitness peaks, and constraints on adaptive evolution.”

      At the same time, we clarify what remains rare in the literature: large-scale, in vivo genotype–phenotype landscapes for bacterial transcription factor binding sites that are sufficiently dense to support explicit evolutionary analyses. While numerous high-throughput studies have characterized bacterial regulatory elements, these datasets typically do not provide quantitative regulatory phenotypes across large genotype spaces, nor do they analyze evolutionary accessibility. To our knowledge, only one such in vivo TFBS landscape had previously been characterized at comparable resolution for a bacterial local regulator (TetR). Our work extends this approach to three global regulators, enabling systematic comparisons across prokaryotic systems (Abstract, Introduction, lines 64–85). For example, we write in the introduction:

      “For transcription factor binding sites, most pertinent large-scale studies are based on in vitro binding assays, such as protein-binding microarrays (PBMs), and they focus predominantly on eukaryotic transcription factors[6]. While these studies have been instrumental in characterizing transcription factor binding preferences, they typically do not measure regulatory output in a native cellular context. In contrast, comprehensive in vivo data for bacterial TFBSs remain extremely rare. To our knowledge, only two high-resolutionin vivo landscapes have been previously mapped for bacterial regulators, those of the local regulators TetR[18] and LacI[27]. As a result, it remains unclear whether principles inferred from protein landscapes, eukaryotic TFBSs, or in vitro binding assays generalize to transcriptional regulation in bacteria, particularly for global regulators[11] that integrate multiple physiological signals.”

      Why PWMs are insufficient for our question.

      We agree with the reviewer that our original explanation of the role of PWMs was too cursory and should have been addressed explicitly in the Introduction. We have now revised the Introduction to clearly explain why PWMs derived from RegulonDB cannot substitute for empirical GP landscapes in our study (Introduction, lines 102–113).

      In this passage we now explain that, first, PWMs are inferred from a limited number of naturally occurring binding sites—typically on the order of hundreds of sequences—whose diversity reflects evolutionary history and genomic context rather than systematic exploration of sequence space. As a result, PWMs sample only a small and biased subset of the possible TFBS variants, whereas our libraries probe tens of thousands of sequences in a controlled manner, providing substantially broader and more uniform coverage of genotype space (Introduction, lines 102–113).

      Second, PWM scores are not direct measurements of regulatory strength. Instead, they represent probabilistic or heuristic scores that are primarily used for identifying candidate binding sites in genomes. Numerous studies have shown that PWM scores often correlate weakly with in vivo binding affinity or regulatory output, where DNA shape, cooperative interactions, and chromosomal context play important roles. As such, PWMs do not provide quantitative genotype–phenotype relationships for regulation strength (Introduction, lines 102–113).

      Third, PWMs assume independent and additive contributions of individual nucleotide positions. This assumption excludes epistatic interactions by construction. Because epistasis is central to landscape ruggedness, peak structure, and evolutionary accessibility, PWM-based models are fundamentally unsuited to address the evolutionary questions we study here (Introduction, lines 102–113). We now explicitly state this limitation early in the manuscript, rather than only alluding to it later in the Results.

      Sign epistasis and contrast with prior TFBS landscapes.

      We also agree with the reviewer that the extensive sign epistasis we observe—approaching levels expected for uncorrelated random landscapes—is surprising in light of much of the existing empirical landscape literature. Importantly, as the reviewer notes, most previous TFBS landscape studies have focused on in vitro binding systems or on eukaryotic transcription factors, which tend to exhibit smoother and more additive landscapes.

      To address this concern, we have revised the Abstract and Introduction to explicitly frame this contrast as a central result of the study (Abstract; Introduction, lines 151-153, Discussion, lines 652–668). For example, we write in the discussion:

      “We showed that the regulatory landscapes of all three TFs are highly rugged and have multiple peaks. The ruggedness of all three landscapes is also supported by the prevalence of epistasis between pairs of TFBS mutations (Supplementary Table S5). A particularly important form of epistasis is sign epistasis[24,93,94], because it can lead to multiple adaptive peaks [24,93,94] (see Supplementary Methods 7.5). Our landscapes contain up to 65% of mutation pairs with sign epistasis, a value that is especially high compared to the almost exclusively additive interactions of mutations in eukaryotic TFs[6,125].”

      We now emphasize that prokaryotic TFBS landscapes, particularly for global regulators, appear to be substantially more rugged and epistatic than most previously characterized TFBS landscapes, and that this difference likely reflects fundamental biological distinctions between regulatory systems.

      Revised emphasis and conclusions.

      Following the reviewer’s suggestion, we have adjusted the emphasis of the manuscript accordingly. Rather than highlighting epistasis and contingency as generic evolutionary phenomena, we now present the extreme ruggedness of prokaryotic TFBS landscapes as a system-specific finding with important implications for the evolution of gene regulation. We explicitly note that this raises new questions for future work—such as why prokaryotic regulatory landscapes differ so markedly from eukaryotic ones, and how these differences shape evolutionary dynamics—which we now highlight in the Introduction and Discussion (Abstract; Introduction, lines 151-153, Discussion, lines 652–668). For example, we write in the discussion:

      “… A possible reason for this greater incidence of epistasis lies in the nature of prokaryotic TFBSs. Specifically, prokaryotic TFBSs are at approximately 20bps twice as long as eukaryotic TFBSs[80,128] and exhibit symmetries that reflect the dimeric state of their cognate TFs[129–131]. These factors may increase the likelihood of intramolecular epistasis. Our observations raise important questions for future work, such as why the landscapes of prokaryotic TFBSs differ so dramatically from those of eukaryotic ones. And what do these differences imply for the evolutionary dynamics of gene regulation?”

      We believe that these revisions substantially improve the clarity, motivation, and positioning of the manuscript, and directly address the reviewer’s concerns by making both the necessity and the novelty of the study clear from the outset.

      (2) I am a bit concerned about the lack of uncertainties incorporated into the results. The authors acknowledge several key limitations of their approach, including the discreteness of the sort-seq bins in determining possible values of regulation strength, the existence of a large number of unsampled sequences in their genotype space, as well as measurement noise in the fluorescence readouts and sequencing. While the authors acknowledge the existence of these factors, I do not see much attempt to actually incorporate the effect of these uncertainties into their conclusions, which I suspect may be important. For example, given the bin size for the fluorescence in sort-seq, how confident are they that every sequence that appears to be a peak is actually a peak? Is it possible that many of the peak sequences have regulation strengths above all their neighbors but within the uncertainty of the fluorescence, making it possible that it's not really a peak? Perhaps such issues would average out and not change the statistical nature of their results, which are not about claiming that specific sequences are peaks, just how many peaks there are. Nevertheless, I think the lack of this robustness analysis makes the results less convincing than they otherwise would be.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important concern. We fully agree that uncertainties arising from experimental resolution, measurement noise in fluorescence and sequencing, and incomplete sampling of genotype space should be incorporated explicitly into the analysis. While these limitations were acknowledged qualitatively in the original manuscript, we recognize that a direct, quantitative assessment of their impact on our conclusions is essential to strengthen the robustness of the study.

      We first clarify that regulation strength is not discretized in our analysis. For each TFBS, regulation strength is calculated as a continuous weighted average of fluorescence across all sorting bins, based on the sequencing read-count distribution of each sequence across bins. We clarified this information in the main text (Results, lines 201-203). Nevertheless, finite binning resolution and experimental noise introduce uncertainty in these estimates, which could in principle affect the identification of local peaks.

      Importantly, our study does not aim to assert that specific TFBS sequences are definitively peaks. Rather, our focus is on landscape-level statistical and topological properties—such as ruggedness, the abundance and distribution of peaks, and the evolutionary accessibility of strong regulation. We therefore centered our new analyses on testing whether these conclusions are robust to experimentally plausible sources of uncertainty, rather than on the identity of individual peaks.

      To address the reviewer’s concern, we performed two complementary analyses. The first evaluates whether the observed ruggedness of the landscapes could arise as an artifact of incomplete sampling. It addressed the effects of missing genotypes and the possibility of spurious peak identification due to unsampled neighbors. Sparse sampling can introduce opposing biases: true peaks may be missed, while other genotypes may be falsely classified as peaks because fitter neighbors are absent. As shown for uncorrelated random (House-of-Cards) landscapes (Kauffman & Levin, 1987), these effects can partially cancel.

      In this analysis, we constructed a null model by randomly permuting regulation strengths across the mapped genotype network while preserving its topology. The number of peaks in these randomized landscapes is only modestly higher than in the empirical data, indicating that the measured landscapes are close to the maximal ruggedness compatible with the sampled network (Results, lines 308–320).

      In addition, we quantified potential sampling bias by analyzing genotype connectivity. Here we defined the relative connectivity of a genotype as the fraction of possible single-mutant neighbors for which we had measured regulation strength. We observed only a very weak correlation between connectivity and regulation strength (R=-0.1, -0.1, 0.01 for the CRP, Fis, and IHF landscapes, Figures S13-S15). Similarly, the relative connectivity of peak genotypes is only weakly correlated with their regulation strength (R=-0.05, -0.04, 0.06 for the CRP, Fis, and IHF landscapes). (Results, lines 321–330), indicating that strongly regulating genotypes are not preferentially oversampled or undersampled (Results, lines 321–330).

      The second, and most important, analysis directly addresses the reviewer’s concern that experimental uncertainty could affect peak classification and, consequently, landscape navigability. We explicitly incorporated experimentally measured, genotype-specific noise estimates from biological replicates when comparing fitness values between neighboring genotypes. Using these uncertainty-aware comparisons, we then recomputed adaptive-walk dynamics and genotype visitation frequencies on the resulting noisy landscapes.

      We observe strong correlations between visitation frequencies in the noise-free and noisy landscapes across all three transcription factors (new Supplementary Figure S35), indicating that evolutionary accessibility patterns are robust to realistic levels of experimental uncertainty. These analyses are described in the revised Results (lines 622–636) and in a new Supplementary Methods section (“Incorporation of experimental uncertainty into adaptive walks”).

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      The authors aim to investigate the ability of evolution to create strong transcription factor binding sites (TFBSs) de novo in E. coli. They focus on three global transcriptional regulators: CRP, Fis, and IHF, using a massively parallel reporter assay to evaluate the regulatory effects of over 30,000 TFBS variants. By analyzing the resulting genotype-phenotype landscapes, they explore the ruggedness, accessibility, and evolutionary dynamics of regulatory landscapes, providing insights into the evolutionary feasibility of strong gene regulation. Their experiments show that de novo adaptive evolution of new gene regulation is feasible. It is also subject to a blend of chance, historical contingency, and evolutionary biases that favor some peaks and evolutionary paths.

      (1) Strengths of the methods and results:

      The authors successfully employed a well-designed sort-seq assay combined with high-throughput sequencing to map regulatory landscapes. The experimental design ensures reliable measurement of regulation strengths. Their system accounts for gene expression noise and normalizes measurements using appropriate controls.

      Comprehensive Landscape Mapping:

      The study examines ~30,000 TFBS variants per transcription factor, providing statistically robust and thorough maps of the regulatory landscapes for CRP, Fis, and IHF. The landscapes are rigorously analyzed for ruggedness (e.g., number of peaks) and epistasis, revealing parallels with theoretical uncorrelated random landscapes.

      Evolutionary Dynamics Simulations:

      Through simulations of adaptive walks under varying population dynamics, the authors demonstrate that high peaks in regulatory landscapes are accessible despite ruggedness. They identify key evolutionary phenomena, such as contingency (multiple paths to peaks) and biases toward specific evolutionary outcomes.

      Biological Relevance and Novelty:

      The author's work is novel in focusing on global regulators, which differ from previously studied local regulators (e.g., TetR). They provide compelling evidence that rugged landscapes are navigable, facilitating de novo evolution of regulatory interactions. The comparison of landscapes for CRP, Fis, and IHF underscores shared topographical features, suggesting general principles of global transcriptional regulation in bacteria.

      (2) Weaknesses of the methods and results:

      Undersampling of Genotype Space:

      While the quality filtering of the data ensures robustness, ~40% of the TFBS space remains uncharacterized. The authors acknowledge this limitation but could improve the analysis by employing subsampling or predictive modeling.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this point. We agree that undersampling of genotype space is an important limitation of our dataset and that, in principle, subsampling or predictive modeling approaches could be used to address missing genotypes. We have now clarified in the manuscript why these approaches are not straightforward in the context of our analyses and why we did not pursue them here.

      Although approximately 40% of TFBS genotypes were removed during the filtering step due to lack of reliable measurements, this filtering step was necessary to ensure robust estimation of regulation strength from sort-seq data. Importantly, random subsampling of the genotypes in our data set would not alleviate this limitation, because many of our key analyses—such as peak identification, quantification of epistasis, and assessment of evolutionary accessibility—require combinatorially complete local neighborhoods in genotype space. Subsampling would remove mutational neighbors from many neighborhoods, and thus further limit our ability to characterize landscape topology.

      Predictive modeling approaches could, in principle, be used to infer missing genotypes and reconstruct more complete landscapes. However, developing, experimentally validating, and benchmarking such models would not only substantially expand the scope of an already long paper, it would  also require additional assumptions about genotype–phenotype relationships that entail their own limitations. Our primary goal in this work was to provide the first large-scale empirical in vivo regulatory landscapes for global bacterial transcription factors, comprising tens of thousands of experimentally measured variants. We view these empirical landscapes as a necessary foundation upon which predictive modeling and landscape completion can be built in future, complementary studies.

      We have now revised the Discussion (lines 760-770) to explicitly articulate these points and to clarify that, while undersampling remains a limitation, it does not invalidate the landscape-level conclusions we draw from the combinatorially complete neighborhoods present in our data. There we also outline predictive modeling as an important directions for future work.

      For a more detailed answer regarding subsampling and peak classification, please also see our response to comment (2) of Reviewer #1.

      Simplified Regulatory Architecture:

      The study considers a minimal system of a single TFBS upstream of a reporter gene. While this may have been necessary for clarity, this simplification may not reflect the combinatorial complexity of transcriptional regulation in vivo.

      Point well taken. We have added paragraph to state explicitly that the system we use to study gene regulation is much simpler than most in vivo regulatory circuits (Discussion, lines 797-802)

      Lack of Experimental Validation of Simulations:

      The adaptive walks are based on simulated dynamics rather than experimental evolution. Incorporating in vivo experimental evolution studies would strengthen the conclusions. Although this is a large request for the paper, that would not prevent publication.

      We thank the reviewer for this important point. We fully agree that in vivo experimental evolution would provide a valuable and complementary way to validate the evolutionary dynamics inferred from our simulations. However, we ask for the reviewer's understanding that adding experimental evolution to an (already long) paper would go far beyond the scope of our study.

      Also, the goal of our study was not to reproduce evolutionary trajectories experimentally, but to characterize the structure of large empirical regulatory landscapes, and to use these landscapes as a data-driven basis for exploring evolutionary accessibility under well-defined population-genetic assumptions. The adaptive walks we employ are parameterized directly from experimentally measured genotype–phenotype maps, and incorporate established fixation probabilities. Such walks have been widely used to study evolutionary dynamics on empirical landscapes when experimental evolution is not tractable, because it would involve tens of thousands of genotypes that represent small mutational targets and would thus take a long time to evolve.

      An additional issue related to the feasibility of experimental evolution is that performing in vivo experimental evolution for the regulatory landscapes analyzed here would require tracking large populations across a combinatorially vast TFBS space, while simultaneously measuring regulatory phenotypes for thousands of evolving lineages, which is currently not experimentally feasible. This is another reason why simulation-based approaches have been the standard method for linking large-scale empirical landscapes to evolutionary dynamics in both theoretical and experimental studies.

      Furthermore, our conclusions are intentionally framed at the level of statistical and landscape-wide properties (e.g., accessibility of high peaks, contingency, and evolutionary bias), rather than at the level of specific mutational trajectories. As such, they do not rely on the precise reproduction of any single evolutionary path, but on aggregate patterns that are robust to reasonable variation in population-genetic parameters.

      In sum, we do not view experimental evolution as essential for the conclusions we draw, but as an important and exciting direction for future work that may be enabled by the landscapes we have experimentally mapped.

      Impact on the Field:

      This study advances our understanding of adaptive landscapes in gene regulation and offers a critical step toward deciphering how global regulators evolve de novo binding sites. The findings provide foundational insights for synthetic biology, evolutionary genetics, and systems biology by highlighting the evolutionary accessibility of strong regulation in bacteria.

      Utility of Methods and Dat

      The sort-seq approach, combined with landscape analysis, provides a robust framework that can be extended to other transcription factors and systems. If made publicly available, the study's data and code would be valuable for researchers modeling transcriptional regulation or studying evolutionary dynamics.

      Additional Context:

      The study builds on a growing body of work exploring regulatory evolution. For instance, recent studies on local regulators like TetR and AraC have revealed high ruggedness and epistasis in TFBS landscapes. This study distinguishes itself by focusing on global regulators, which are more biologically complex and influential in bacterial gene networks. The observed evolutionary contingency aligns with findings in other biological systems, such as protein evolution and RNA folding landscapes, underscoring the generality of these evolutionary principles.

      Conclusion:

      The authors successfully mapped the genotype-phenotype landscapes for three global regulators and simulated evolutionary dynamics to assess the feasibility of strong TFBS evolution. They convincingly demonstrate that ruggedness and epistasis, while prominent, do not preclude the evolution of strong regulation. Their results support the notion that gene regulation evolves through a blend of chance, contingency, and evolutionary biases.

      This paper makes a significant contribution to the understanding of regulatory evolution in bacteria. While minor limitations exist, the authors' methods are robust, and their findings are well-supported. The work will likely be of broad interest to researchers in molecular evolution, synthetic biology, and gene regulation.

      We thank the reviewer for their thorough evaluation and for their supportive opinion of this paper.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Line 28 (Abstract): "Landscape ruggedness does not prevent the evolution of strong regulation, because more than 10% of evolving populations can attain one of the highest peaks." I did not find this interpretation very convincing; only 10% of populations being able to achieve strong regulation sounds to me like ruggedness DOES impede adaptation in the vast majority of cases.

      We thank the reviewer for this thoughtful comment and agree that our original phrasing in the Abstract overstated this conclusion. We did not intend to imply that landscape ruggedness has only a minor effect on adaptation. On the contrary, our results clearly show that ruggedness strongly constrains evolutionary outcomes and prevents the majority of evolving populations from reaching the globally highest regulatory peaks. We have therefore toned down the wording in both the Abstract and the Discussion (lines 670-679) to reflect this more accurately. For example, in the abstract we now state

      “Nonetheless, evolutionary simulations show that ~10% of evolving populations can reach a peak of strong regulation, a proportion that is significantly greater than in comparable random landscapes.”

      In the discussion we state:

      “… Specifically, our evolutionary simulations show that 10% of populations with a size typical of E. coli reach one of the highest peaks. This percentage is significantly higher than in randomized landscapes (Supplementary Methods 9; Supplementary Figure S30)"

      Our intended interpretation was more limited: namely, that ruggedness does not fully preclude the evolution of strong regulation. In highly rugged landscapes with extensive sign epistasis—whose topological properties approach those of uncorrelated random landscapes—the a priori expectation is that access to the strongest peaks could be vanishingly rare or effectively impossible under Darwinian evolution. In this context, observing that a non-negligible fraction of populations (on the order of 10%) can reach one of the highest peaks suggests that strong regulation remains evolutionarily attainable, even though it is far from guaranteed.

      Motivated by the reviewer’s suggestion, we also added a null-model analysis that makes this point more explicitly and quantitatively. Specifically, we constructed randomized landscapes by permuting regulation-strength values across genotypes while preserving the experimentally sampled genotype network topology and all parameters of the evolutionary simulations (Supplementary Methods 9, “Randomized landscape null model for peak accessibility”). We then repeated the adaptive-walk simulations on these shuffled landscapes. This null model provides an expectation for peak accessibility in landscapes with identical sampling, neighborhood structure, and evolutionary dynamics, but without genotype–phenotype correlations.

      Using this null model, we find that the fraction of populations that reach high peaks in the empirical landscapes is substantially higher than expected by chance alone (new Supplementary Figure S30; Results, lines 504–516). Specifically, across the three transcription factors, empirical landscapes exhibit on average a ~3-fold higher accessibility of high regulatory peaks than shuffled landscapes. This comparison does not weaken the conclusion that ruggedness strongly impedes adaptation; rather, it shows that the structure of the measured genotype–phenotype landscapes enables greater accessibility of strong regulation than would be expected in equally rugged but unstructured landscapes.

      In response to the reviewer’s concern, we have revised the abstract and main text to avoid the phrase “does not prevent” and to more accurately convey this balance between constraint and accessibility. We now emphasize that ruggedness strongly constrains adaptation, while still allowing access to strong regulatory peaks at rates that exceed null expectations. (Discussion, lines 512-516). For example, in the discussion we state:

      “… In sum, rugged regulatory landscapes strongly constrain evolutionary trajectories, yet do not render the evolution of strong regulation vanishingly rare. Instead, strong regulatory phenotypes remain evolutionarily attainable at levels that exceed null expectations, even though they are reached by only a minority of evolving populations.”

      We believe that the revised wording, together with the added null-model analysis more faithfully represents our results and strengthens the quantitative interpretation of accessibility in these landscapes.

      (2) Line 123: I found the explanation of the plasmid system and the accompanying SI figures (Figures S1 and S2) confusing in terms of how many plasmids there were. In particular, the Figure S1 graphics show the plasmid specifically with CRP but the text in the graphic and in the caption refers to the plasmid pCAW-Sort-Seq-V2 (which, according to Table S1, isn't that just the base plasmid without any TF?). Figure S2 also shows the plasmid with CRP and does specify pCAW-Sort-Seq-V2-CRP-CRP0 in the graphic, but then the caption refers again only to the base plasmid pCAW-Sort-Seq-V2. I recommend the authors clarify these items for readers who might want to reproduce or build upon their system. In particular, I recommend the main text explain more explicitly that they generate three versions of this plasmid (one for each TF), and then on the backgrounds of each of those three plasmids, a whole library with all the binding site variants.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out this lack of clarity. We agree that the original description of the plasmid system and the accompanying Supplementary Figures S1 and S2 could be confusing with respect to how many plasmids were used and how they differ.

      To clarify the experimental design, we start from a common backbone plasmid, pCAW-Sort-Seq-V2, which contains all shared regulatory and reporter elements but does not encode any transcription factor. From this backbone, we generated three distinct TF-specific plasmids, each carrying one of the transcription factors studied here—CRP, Fis, or IHF—resulting in pCAW-Sort-Seq-V2-CRP, pCAW-Sort-Seq-V2-Fis, and pCAW-Sort-Seq-V2-IHF. On the background of each TF-specific plasmid, we then constructed a complete library of plasmids containing all variants of the corresponding TF binding site cloned upstream of the reporter gene.

      We have revised the main text to explicitly describe this plasmid hierarchy and library construction strategy and to clarify that three TF-specific plasmids were generated prior to TFBS library construction (Results, Landscape mapping section; lines 159–193). In addition, we have redesigned Supplementary Figures S1 and S2 to facilitate understanding of the plasmid system. Specifically, these figures now clearly distinguish between the base plasmid backbone and the TF-specific plasmid derivatives. Also, the plasmid names shown in the graphics and captions are now consistent with those listed in Supplementary Table S1. Upon final publication, we will also deposit the sequences of all plasmids in Addgene to further facilitate reproducibility.

      (3) Line 135: Can the authors clarify whether these TFs are essential in these media conditions and, if not, why? I was expecting them to be so given the core functions of these TFs as described in the Introduction, but then Figure S3 appears to show that all knockouts are viable.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point and apologize for the lack of clarity in the original version of the manuscript. The transcription factors CRP, Fis, and IHF are not essential for viability under the growth conditions used in this study, but they are important for optimal growth and cellular fitness, consistent with their roles as global regulators.

      Under our experimental conditions, single-gene knockout strains (Δcrp, Δfis, and Δihf) are viable but exhibit slower growth dynamics compared to the wild-type strain, reflecting impaired regulation of core cellular processes (Supplementary Figure S3). This behavior is consistent with previous work showing that many global transcriptional regulators in E. coli are conditionally essential or strongly fitness-affecting, rather than absolutely essential under standard laboratory conditions.

      Importantly, while single knockouts remain viable, double mutants involving these global regulators are not viable, indicating substantial functional redundancy and network-level essentiality among global transcription factors. This explains why each TF can be studied individually in isolation, while combinations of deletions cannot be maintained.

      We have now clarified this point in the Results section by explicitly stating that the knockout strains show reduced growth rates but reach comparable cell densities during late exponential or early stationary phase, the growth phase at which all measurements were performed (Results, Landscape mapping section; lines 185–193). This clarification reconciles the apparent discrepancy between the biological importance of these transcription factors discussed in the Introduction and the viability of the single-knockout strains shown in Supplementary Figure S3.

      (4) Lines 141 and 227: The authors appear to refer to two different citations for different versions of RegulonDB (refs. 47 and 66). Did they actually use both versions for different purposes (if so, why?), or is this a typo?

      We thank the reviewer for noticing this inconsistency. We did not use two different versions of RegulonDB. The two separate references were an error. We have now corrected this by using a single, consistent RegulonDB citation in both locations.

      (5) Line 166 (Figure 1 caption): I think 2^8 here should be 4^8.

      Thank you. We have corrected “2<sup>8</sup>” to “4<sup>8</sup>” in the Figure 1 caption.

      (6) Figure 2Are the distributions in Figure 2a (regulation strengths across all TFBSs in the libraries) equivalent to the distributions in Figures S4-S6 (direct fluorescence readout from cell sorting), just transformed from fluorescence to regulation strength? If so I think that would be helpful to clarify, perhaps in the captions to Figures S4-S6 so that it's clear these contain the same information.

      No. Figures S4–S6 and Figure 2a do not show the same distributions. Figures S4–S6 display the raw fluorescence distributions obtained from cell sorting, whereas Figure 2a shows regulation strengths (S), which are derived quantities computed from these fluorescence data. Specifically, regulation strength is calculated as a weighted average over fluorescence bins using the sequencing read distribution for each TFBS (see Methods, “Regulation strengths”).

      To clarify this relationship, we have revised the main text (lines 201-203 and Figure 1b-c), to explicitly state how regulation strengths (S) were calculated.

      (7) Figure 2b: Can the authors label each logo/frequency matrix with its corresponding TF name in the graphic itself? I think this is only implied in the caption.

      We have updated Figure 2b to label each sequence logo / frequency matrix directly in the graphic with its corresponding transcription factor name (CRP, Fis, or IHF), in addition to mentioning these names in the caption. This change clarifies the figure and makes the TF identity immediately apparent to the reader.

      (8) Lines 290 and 298 (Figure 2 caption): The labels for panels b and c appear to be swapped in the caption.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing this out. The labels for panels b and c in the Figure 2 caption were indeed swapped. This has now been corrected.

      (9) Line 379: There is a missing period at the end of this line.

      We have added the missing period at the end of this line.

      (10) Line 400 (Figure 3 caption): There is a missing subtitle for panel c in the caption for this figure (all other panels seem to have bolded subtitles in their captions).

      We have added the missing subtitle for panel c in the Figure 3 caption to match the formatting of the other panels.

      (11) Line 583: There is a missing period after "Methods 7.5)".

      We have added the missing period after “Methods 7.5)”.

      (12) Line 641: "All three landscapes highly rugged" should probably be "All three landscapes are highly rugged".

      We have corrected the sentence to read “All three landscapes are highly rugged.”

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      We agree with the reviewer that a limitation of our study is its focus on cell-based assays rather than in vivo experiments. We did consider evaluating the effects of statins on B cell responses in vivo; however, this approach is complicated by findings that statins can influence antigen presentation by dendritic cells, thereby impacting antibody responses (Xia et al, 2018). We have revised the discussion section to acknowledge this points.

      The reviewer also noted that our study assessed the roles of HMGCR, SQLE, and prenylation in B cell activation using pharmacological inhibitors and genetic knockdown/out approaches. Loss-of-function techniques such as RNAi, siRNA, and CRISPR can be challenging to apply to primary B cells, but we are exploring their feasibility for future revisions. While we acknowledge the limitations of using pharmacological inhibitors, we have taken several steps to mitigate these, including targeting multiple steps in the cholesterol biosynthetic pathway using structurally distinct inhibitors and conducting rescue experiments by supplementing downstream metabolites. To strengthen the results on prenylation further, we have added data using two further distinct prenylation inhibitors (revised Figure 6). To further investigate potential off-target effects of statins, we performed proteomic analysis of B cells treated with and without fluvastatin. The data suggest that fluvastatin primarily affects cholesterol metabolism and does not cause widespread off-target effects (new Supplementary Figure 9).

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      What signalling mechanisms link LPS sensing to proteomic and metabolic changes? Do these changes depend on specific signalling modules downstream of TLR4 (e.g., MyD88, TRIF, NF-kappaB, MAPKs)? Other receptors found to produce similar effects (TLR7, TLR9, CD40) may share these modules. This information could strengthen the conclusion by showing the chain of molecular events through which immune stimuli reprogram B cell metabolism.

      Signalling through most TLRs, including TLR4, TLR7 and TLR9, requires the adaptor protein MyD88. To determine if MyD88 is required for LPS-induced signalling, we carried out immunoblotting to compare signalling in B cells between WT mice and MyD88-deficient mice. We found that phosphorylation of key downstream proteins, including p38 and ERK1/2 (MAPK signalling), Akt, p70S6K and S6 (mTOR signalling) was diminished in MyD88-deficient mice (Figure S11). These results have been added to the manuscript as Supplementary Figure 11.

      We assessed the requirement of these signalling pathways for LPS-induced proliferation by treating B cells with rapamycin to block mTORC1, PD184352 for MEK1/MEK2 (the upstream activators of ERK1/2), VX745 for p38 or a combination of PD184352 and VX745. These results have been added to the manuscript as the new Figure 9. Rapamycin demonstrated the strongest inhibitory effect on proliferation, and combinatorial blocking of MAPK signalling mildly reduced proliferation (Figure 9A-B). In terms of cholesterol metabolism, treatment with all of these inhibitors reduced cholesterol levels; however, treatment with PD184352 and VX745 reduced cholesterol to the same level as naïve B cells (Figure 9F).

      Other activating stimuli appear to have similar effects, we showed originally that TLR7 and TLR9 activation had a similar effect on proliferation and cholesterol to TLR4, as did activation of CD40 and the BCR (Figure 10). We have now expanded this and shown that these other receptors can also promote protein synthesis (new Supplementary Figure 4).

      There seem to be errors in the manuscript text.

      (1) Page 6, line 232: ssRNAseq?

      We that the reviewer for spotting these issues. This has been amended to scRNAseq.

      (2) Page 13, line 490: SC7A5?

      This has been amended to SLC7A5

      (3) The abbreviation CF (cholesterol-free?) is not defined when it first appears.

      This has been amended to cholesterol-free (CF) on page 9, line 411.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      The reviewer suggested that the study would be strengthened by determining whether the observed changes are specific to LPS + IL-4 stimulation or represent a more general B cell response to mitogenic signals. We believe that these effects are not specific to LPS and also occur with other mitogenic stimuli. We have expanded on the data in the original draft showing that other TLR agonists as well as CD40 and BCR stimulation increase both B cell proliferation and cholesterol levels and also looked at the effects of these stimuli on protein synthesis.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) One of the most highly enriched processes is 'response to interferon alpha'. This stands out as most of the other processes identified involve more general cellular processes (i.e., cell proliferation, cell metabolism, etc...). Minimally, interferon alpha should be discussed. It would also be interesting to test whether type I interferons regulate any of the metabolic changes identified.

      Response to interferon alpha has the highest fold enrichment of 6.78. To look at this further compiled a list of proteins upregulated by IFN-α stimulation in murine B cells, derived from (Mostafavi et al, 2016) and compared these with our proteome. We found that most of the IFNα regulated genes were not significantly upregulated following LPS + IL-4 stimulation compared to naïve B cells (Figure S3A). We also measured phosphorylation of the transcription factor STAT1, which is induced by IFNα and IFNβ signalling, and found that LPS stimulation did not induce p-STAT1 (Figure S3B-C). These results have been added to the manuscript as Supplementary Figure 3. Despite this, as discussed further in the manuscript we cannot rule out a weak interferon response in the proteomics.

      (2) The proteome of BCR-stimulated B cells has been analyzed by mass spectrometry. This dataset should be compared with the LPS + IL-4 dataset of the current study. This may reveal whether these two stimulations have similar or different effects on B-cell function. In particular, it is interesting to know whether BCR stimulation induces SLC7A5 expression and whether proteins involved in cholesterol metabolism are altered by BCR stimulation.

      A similar study using anti-IgM and anti-CD40 to activate murine B cells has found an upregulation of amino acid transporters, including SLC7A5, in their proteomic data, suggesting that this is not a stimulus-specific effect. This has been added to the text subsection “Protein synthesis in LPS + IL-4 stimulated B cells is dependent on the uptake of amino acids.” In line with this we have also shown that stimulation of the BCR upregulates protein synthesis (new Supplementary Figure 4). We have added data on HMGCR, SQLE and LDLR form the BCR proteomics experiments to the new Supplementary Figure 13. As the BCR proteome published as a preprint (James et al 2024) is about to be resubmitted as a distinct paper that does not deal with cholesterol metabolism, we have not expanded on this dataset further.

      (3) A role for mTORC1 has been shown for proteome remodelling following BCR stimulation of naïve B cells, regulating the expression of amino acid transporters. Is mTORC1 involved in any of the changes detected following LPS + IL-4 stimulation? (i.e., cell proliferation, ribosome biogenesis, amino acid transport, cholesterol biogenesis).

      To determine the importance of mTORC1 for B cell function, we treated B cells with rapamycin. We found that rapamycin treatment slightly reduced protein synthesis (Figure S12A) and amino acid uptake (Figure S12B). These results have been added to the manuscript as Supplementary Figure 12. Rapamycin reduced cholesterol to almost the levels in naïve B cells (new Figure 9F) and had a significantly inhibitory effect on proliferation (new Figure 9A-B).

      (4) Analysis of Slc7a5 knockout B cells showed that SLC7A5 is required for LPS-induced proliferation (Figure 4G). Is SLC7A5 required for B cell growth following LPS + IL-4 stimulation? Is SLC7A5 required for BCR-induced B cell proliferation/growth?

      There appears to be a misunderstanding, as Figure 4G compares proliferation between WT and SLC7A5 KO B cells following LPS + IL-4 stimulation and not LPS stimulation alone.

      Unfortunately, we no longer have access to Slc7a5fl/fl/Vav-iCre+/- mice and will not be able to measure CTV staining for proliferation following BCR stimulation. However, a similar study using anti-IgM and anti-CD40 to activate murine B cells found that B cells from Slc7a5fl/fl/Vav-iCre+/- mice were significantly smaller, had reduced expression of the chaperone protein CD98 and impaired expression of the transferrin receptor CD71, which is required for iron uptake, compared to WT B cells (James et al, 2024).

      (5) The expression of several key proteins (regulating proliferation/amino acid transport/cholesterol metabolism) is shown to be significantly upregulated by LPS + IL-4 stimulation of naïve B cells. It would be interesting to determine whether these increases result from induced transcription of the relevant genes. This could initially be assessed by qRT-PCR analysis of LPS + IL-4 stimulated primary B cells, or alternatively, mining of online RNAseq datasets.

      We mined RNA-Seq data from C57BL/6 mice (Tesi et al, 2019) which compared naïve B cells and B cells after 2,4, or 8 hours of LPS stimulation. We found that the transcription of genes that coded for the amino acid transporter SLC7A5/SLC3A2 (Figure S6A-B) and key genes involved in cholesterol metabolism followed the same pattern of upregulation as our proteomic data (Figure S6C-F). These results have been added to the manuscript as a new Supplementary Figure 6.

      (6) Cholesterol levels are shown to be increased following resiquimod, CpG, anti-IgM, and CD40L stimulation (Figure 9). What effect do these agonists have on levels of HMGCR, SQLE, and LDLR in B cells? Is B-cell growth by these agonists impaired by Fluvastatin.

      We found that stimulation of murine B cells with either IL-4, anti-IgM or anti-CD40 could increase levels of HMGCR, SQLE and LDLR, with the largest increase seen with a combination of these stimuli (Figure S13A-D) (James et al, 2024). These results have been added to the manuscript as Supplementary Figure 13.

      Figures 10C-E show that B cell growth, survival and proliferation are impaired by Fluvastatin after Resiquimod, CpG, anti-IgM, and CD40L stimulation, although we do not have proteomic data from these stimuli to confirm the levels of HMGCR, SQLE and LDLR.

      We carried out proteomics after 24 hours of LPS + IL-4 stimulation in normal/CF media, with or without Fluvastatin. We found that Fluvastatin treatment in normal media increased the expression of HMGCR, SQLE and LDLR. Fluvastatin treatment in CF media had the highest increase in the expression of these key proteins (Figure S9G-J). These results have been added to the manuscript as Supplementary Figure 9.

      (7) Do Fluvastatin or FGTI-2734 affect early activation of signaling pathways by LPS + IL-4 stimulation of B cells? (eg. MAPKs, STATs, PI3K/AKT).

      This is an interesting question, we will pursue this in our future work.

      References:

      James O, Sinclair LV, Lefter N, Salerno F, Brenes A & Howden AJM (2024) A proteomic map of B cell activation and its shaping by mTORC1, MYC and iron. bioRxiv 2024.12.19.629506 doi:10.1101/2024.12.19.629506

      Xia Y, Xie Y, Yu Z, Xiao H, Jiang G, Zhou X, Yang Y, Li X, Zhao M, Li L, et al (2018) The Mevalonate Pathway Is a Druggable Target for Vaccine Adjuvant Discovery. Cell 175: 1059-1073.e21

    1. Author Response:

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Adult laboratory mice produce ultrasonic vocalizations during free social interactions, as well as lower-frequency, voiced calls (squeaks) during aversive contexts. The question of whether mice possess a more complex repertoire of vocalizations has been of great interest to scientists studying rodent vocal behavior. In the current study, the authors analyze the rates and acoustic features of vocalizations produced by pairs of mice that are allowed to interact across a barrier, which prevents direct physical interaction. In this context, they find that same-sex (but not opposite-sex) pairs of mice produce vocalizations that are lower in frequency than the typical 70 kHz ultrasonic vocalizations produced during free interactions and that are also distinct from squeaks. These lower frequency vocalizations were observed in both male-male and female-female pairs, as well as in same-sex pairs from multiple mouse strains. The authors also report that call rates and acoustic features are not affected in male-male pairs that have been treated with the anxiolytic drug buspirone, suggesting that anxiety is not a major driver of vocalization in this behavioral context.

      Strengths:

      (1) The observation that same-sex pairs of mice produce lower frequency (<70 kHz) vocalizations in this behavioral context is novel.

      (2) The consideration of multiple types of pairs (female-female, male-male, and female-male), as well as the inclusion of multiple strains of mice and barriers with different hole diameters, are all strengths of the study.

      (3) The authors include detailed analyses of vocalization acoustic features, as well as detailed tracking of mouse positions relative to the barrier.

      Weaknesses:

      The categorization applied to vocalizations based on their mean frequencies is poorly supported and ignores the distinction in laryngeal production mechanism between voiced and ultrasonic vocalizations. Specifically, the authors are likely lumping together voiced and ultrasonic vocalizations into their "low frequency" (< 30 kHz) category, while they reserve the term "ultrasonic" exclusively for the subset of ultrasonic vocalizations with the highest mean frequencies (> 50 kHz). This categorization scheme also does not align well with past work on lower frequency rodent vocalizations, which complicates the comparison of the present findings to that past work.

      We thank the reviewer for their assessment. Firstly, we did not use mean frequencies, but peak frequencies of each single call.

      The distinction between ‘voiced’ and ‘whistled’ vocalizations based on their spectral-temporal features is hardly possible. While evidence in form of audio recordings made from both deer mouse and grasshopper mouse in helium-enriched air suggests vocalizations with lower fundamental frequency being ‘voiced’ (Pasch et al., 2017; Riede et al., 2022), a computational model considering the laryngeal anatomy of Mus musculus estimates fundamental frequencies of vocalizations at subglottal phonation threshold pressures usual for USVs to be in the range of 1 – 5 kHz and approaching 10 kHz for higher subglottal pressures usually found in the production of ‘voiced’ vocalizations (Pasch et al., 2017). Furthermore, a recent study in the singing mouse (Scotinomys teguina) found minimal fundamental frequencies of single song notes, produced by a whistle mechanism, to be about 4 kHz (Zheng et al., 2025). Thus, the presence of low fundamental (peak) frequencies in mouse vocalizations alone appears to be insufficient for deducing the production mechanism of these vocalizations.

      We did not observe differences in acoustic features clearly separating our ‘LFV’ calls into two groups suggestive of different production mechanisms. Thus, we cannot rule out that our ‘LFV’ class contains vocalizations produced by different mechanisms. However, we did not observe any squeaks in our experiments and can therefore rule out that this prominent type of ‘voiced’ call is lumped together with other calls in the ‘LFV’ calls.

      While the questions regarding production mechanism, the neurocircuitry involved, and the context-dependent choice of which mechanism to use is intriguing/enticing, the distinction between ‘voiced’ and ‘whistled’ vocalizations lies beyond the scope of our manuscript. Instead, the neurocircuitry involved in mouse vocalization production, particularly USVs and squeaks has been revealed by other laboratories. Optogenetical activation of RAm Nts neurons elicited emission of both audible vocalizations (fundamental frequencies of 10 kHz and below) and USVs in awake mice in a stimulus-dependent manner (Veerakumar et al., 2023). Furthermore, optogenetical activation of RAm-vocalization neurons led to immediate measurable adduction of vocal folds and emission of canonical USVs (Park et al., 2024). While different populations of PAG neurons are responsible for the production both squeaks and USVs (Ziobro et al., 2024), the two input streams seem to converge on RAm vocalization neurons, as silencing the output of these neurons abolished both squeak and USV emission completely (Park et al., 2024). Thus, while near complete closing of the vocal folds is necessary for the production of canonical USVs (Mahrt et al., 2016; Park et al., 2024), it is not clear which degree of vocal fold opening would result in what fundamental frequencies.

      We will add a paragraph on this issue to the discussion in the next version of the manuscript.

      In some analyses, the authors report that different groups of mice produce different relative proportions of vocalization types (as defined by mean frequency) but then compare acoustic features of vocalizations between groups after pooling all vocalizations together. The analyses of acoustic features conducted in this way may be confounded by the different proportions of vocalization types across groups.

      We displayed the relative distribution of the different call classes demonstrating that 80% of the call repertoire during the separation consisted of noisy calls and ‘LFV’. Thus, the per individual averaged acoustic features e.g. peak frequency would be predominantly shaped by the features of these two call classes. However, we agree with the reviewer’s criticism and will provide a more detailed display and analysis of the acoustic features of each call class.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, the authors examine vocal communication during same-sex dyadic interactions in mice, comparing periods of physical separation (with limited sensory access) to direct social contact. They report that separation dramatically alters the vocal repertoire, shifting it away from canonical ultrasonic vocalizations (USVs) toward low-frequency vocalizations (LFVs) and broadband "noisy" calls. While LFVs and noisy calls have been described previously, largely in aversive contexts, this study provides a detailed, systematic characterization of these vocalizations during social interactions, thereby extending prior work.

      The authors explore several experimental manipulations and analyses, including divider hole size, strain and sex differences, anxiolytic drug treatment, and correlations with spatial proximity, to infer potential functions of these call types. Although the dataset is rich, the results are largely descriptive, and many conclusions remain tentative. Several experimental variables are not fully controlled, and in some cases, the interpretation exceeds what the data can clearly support. Nonetheless, with improved experimental framing, additional analyses of existing data, and a clearer discussion of limitations, this work has the potential to make a valuable contribution by broadening the field's focus beyond USVs to understand a wider vocal repertoire relevant to social context.

      Strengths:

      Much work on mouse vocal communication focuses almost exclusively on USVs. This manuscript convincingly demonstrates that non-USV vocalizations (LFVs and noisy calls) are prominent and systematically modulated by social context, highlighting an underappreciated dimension of mouse communication. Furthermore, the authors employ several experimental manipulations, including sensory access, strain, sex, and pharmacological treatment, to assess changes in vocalization repertoire. This provides a valuable resource for the field and reveals robust context dependence of vocalization. The discussion is thoughtful and integrative, particularly in its consideration of potential communicative roles of LFVs and noisy calls and their relationship to sensory constraints and signal propagation, although these ideas will require further experimental validation.

      Weaknesses:

      There are several concerns regarding experimental design and data interpretation that could be addressed to strengthen the manuscript.

      (1) The terminology used for vocalization types is confusing and needs better clarification. The authors refer to Grimsley et al. (2016) multiple times, yet they use the same names for their vocalizations while applying different definitions. This makes it very difficult to compare the two papers. Since this study and Grimsley et al. use different mouse strains (FVB vs CBA), a direct comparison of absolute frequencies may also not be appropriate. Please explicitly clarify the definitions of the call types (e.g., frequency range, voiced vs. USV) and explain how they relate to those in the previous study earlier in the manuscript.

      The existence and use of various distinct classification systems for mouse vocalizations is well known and the need to agree on a common classification system is consensus in the field. Thus, it was not our intention to complicate mouse call classification even more.

      Grimsley at al. (2016) reserve the ‘low frequency’ band solely for squeaks (or “low frequency harmonics”). Hence, it appears straight forward to name mouse calls with “mean dominant frequencies” falling between squeaks and USVs, “mid-frequency tonal vocalizations (MFVs)” (Grimsley et al., 2016). We did not observe the emission of squeaks in our experiments, but instead we observed tonal vocalizations in a peak frequency spectrum encompassing both squeaks and Grimsley and colleagues’ ‘MFVs’, representing the lowest peak frequencies we observed (< 32 kHz). Furthermore, we observed vocalizations in the range of 32 – 50 kHz (which were not low frequency components of canonical USVs) and of > 50 kHz (corresponding to canonical USVs). Leaning on the terminology of Grimsley and colleagues (2016), we thought it to be straightforward to name these call classes according to their location on the frequency spectrum: low frequency vocalizations (LFVs; up to 32 kHz), encompassing squeaks, but also Grimsley and colleagues’ MFVs, middle frequency vocalizations (MFVs; 32 – 50 kHz), and finally canonical USVs (> 50 kHz). Admittedly, choosing ‘MFVs’ for mouse calls with different acoustic features than those described by Grimsley and colleagues (2016) has caused unnecessary confusion. We therefore consider adapting our classification scheme for the next version of the manuscript.

      Regarding the comparison of call classes between different mouse strains, strain differences of spectral-temporal features of call classes have been described for canonical USVs (e.g. Scattoni et al., 2008). However, the acoustic features as well as call repertoire are still quite comparable. Furthermore, we have additionally tested both CBA/J and C57BL/6J mice in our study confirming the presence of both noisy calls, ‘LFVs’, ‘MFVs’, and ‘USVs’ in the vocal repertoire of these two strains.

      We will provide a more detailed display and analysis of the acoustic features of the call classes with the next version of the manuscript.

      (2) In the initial experiment, mice always experience separation first (15 minutes), followed by unification (5 minutes), using novel same-sex dyads. Multiple factors besides physical contact could influence vocalization across this sequence, including habituation to the arena, reduced anxiety over time, or increasing familiarity with the partner despite physical separation. It is unclear whether the authors have tested the reverse order (unification first, followed by separation). If not, this limitation should be explicitly acknowledged. In addition, examining whether vocalizations or behaviors change over the course of the 15-minute separation period, for example, by comparing early vs late phases, could help disentangle effects of habituation from those of physical separation per se.

      We had not tested mice in the reverse order, beginning with 5 minutes of unification followed by 15 minutes of separation. Therefore, we acknowledge this limitation of our study and will address it explicitly in the next version of our manuscript. We appreciate the reviewer’s note regarding the inclusion of vocalizations over time and aim to provide this analysis in the next version of the manuscript.

      (3) The conclusion that separation-induced LFVs are unlikely to be anxiety-driven may overinterpret the buspirone experiment (Figure 8). Vehicle injections themselves produced large changes in call rate and call-type distribution, raising concerns about stress or arousal induced by the injection procedure. Comparisons between buspirone-treated animals and untreated animals are therefore problematic, as these groups differ in their experimental histories, including the number of exposures. The manuscript would benefit from independent measures confirming the anxiolytic efficacy of buspirone compared to vehicle injection in this paradigm, such as behavioral readouts of anxiety. In addition, the experimental design requires a clearer description. It is not always clear whether the same dyads were tested twice, or how social familiarity, contextual familiarity, and habituation to injections were handled. Male data comparing first and second exposures should also be included as supplementary figures to allow direct comparison with the excluded female dataset.

      We agree with the reviewer’s point that the injection procedure itself appeared to have an impact on vocalization behavior. In fact, we had included the ‘untreated’ cohort in Fig. 8 despite their different experimental history to appreciate the potential impact of injection onto vocal behavior.

      Furthermore, we appreciate the reviewer’s point of confirming the anxiolytic effect of buspirone treatment with further behavioral readouts and aim to provide such analysis in the next version of the manuscript.

      Regarding the reviewer’s query for clearer experimental design description, the same dyads were tested twice. All mice lived in groups in their home cage, however, they had not met the individual they would face during the experiment before the first experiment. We will improve the description of the experimental design addressing the reviewer’s points in the next version of the manuscript.

      (4) The idea that noisy calls function to attract conspecific attention is intriguing. However, in Figure 5, all call types, including LFVs and USVs, are most likely to occur when mice are already in close proximity during separation, which seems inconsistent with a long-distance signaling role. Analyses of the temporal relationship between vocalizations and behavior would strengthen this claim. For example, it would be informative to test whether bouts of noisy calls precede approach behavior or a reduction in inter-animal distance. Examining whether calls occur before, during, or after orientation toward the partner could further clarify whether these vocalizations actively modulate social behavior.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s remarks regarding the apparent inconsistencies between noisy calls as conspecific attraction calls and their occurrence in close mouse-to-mouse proximity. We must concede that the size of our testing arena limited the maximum distances mice could achieve. Thus, we aim to provide a more extensive analysis including approach behavior and changes of inter-animal distances for resubmission of the manuscript as suggested by the reviewer.

      (5) The effects of divider hole size on vocal repertoire are striking but difficult to interpret. Unexpectedly, small holes and no holes yield similar call distributions, whereas large holes produce a markedly different profile dominated by LFVs, which also differs from free interactions. If large holes allow greater tactile or close-range interaction, the reduction in USVs and MFV is counterintuitive. Incorporating behavioral metrics such as distance, orientation, or specific interaction types alongside call classification would greatly aid interpretation and help link vocal output to interaction quality rather than divider type alone.

      We agree with the reviewer that the interpretation of the divider-hole-size-experiment are difficult and following this reviewer’s input, aim to provide additional behavioral analysis for the effect of divider hole size with the next version of the manuscript.

      (6) Throughout the study, vocalizations are pooled across both animals in the dyad. Because the arena is neutral rather than a home cage, either animal could be initiating vocalization. Assigning calls to individuals, where possible, using spatial or acoustic cues, would substantially strengthen functional interpretations. Even limited analyses, e.g., identifying which animal vocalizes first or whether calls precede approach by the partner, could provide important insight into the communicative role of different call types.

      We agree with the points raised by the reviewer regarding the importance of assigning recorded calls to the respective individual for deciphering the communicative role of different call types. Unfortunately, our system was only equipped with one condenser microphone therefore we are not able to assign calls to individual mice.

      Literature:

      Grimsley, J. M. S., Sheth, S., Vallabh, N., Grimsley, C. A., Bhattal, J., Latsko, M., Jasnow, A., & Wenstrup, J. J. (2016). Contextual Modulation of Vocal Behavior in Mouse: Newly Identified 12 kHz „Mid-Frequency“ Vocalization Emitted during Restraint. Frontiers in Behavioral Neuroscience, 10, 38. https://doi.org/10.3389/fnbeh.2016.00038

      Mahrt, E., Agarwal, A., Perkel, D., Portfors, C., & Elemans, C. P. H. (2016). Mice produce ultrasonic vocalizations by intra-laryngeal planar impinging jets. Current Biology: CB, 26(19), R880–R881. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2016.08.032

      Park, J., Choi, S., Takatoh, J., Zhao, S., Harrahill, A., Han, B.-X., & Wang, F. (2024). Brainstem control of vocalization and its coordination with respiration. Science (New York, N.Y.), 383(6687), eadi8081. https://doi.org/10.1126/science.adi8081

      Pasch, B., Tokuda, I. T., & Riede, T. (2017). Grasshopper mice employ distinct vocal production mechanisms in different social contexts. Proceedings. Biological Sciences, 284(1859), 20171158. https://doi.org/10.1098/rspb.2017.1158

      Riede, T., Kobrina, A., Bone, L., Darwaiz, T., & Pasch, B. (2022). Mechanisms of sound production in deer mice (Peromyscus spp.). The Journal of Experimental Biology, 225(9), jeb243695. https://doi.org/10.1242/jeb.243695

      Scattoni, M. L., Gandhy, S. U., Ricceri, L., & Crawley, J. N. (2008). Unusual repertoire of vocalizations in the BTBR T+tf/J mouse model of autism. PloS One, 3(8), e3067. https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0003067

      Veerakumar, A., Head, J. P., & Krasnow, M. A. (2023). A brainstem circuit for phonation and volume control in mice. Nature Neuroscience, 26(12), 2122–2130. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41593-023-01478-2

      Zheng, X. M., Harpole, C. E., Davis, M. B., & Banerjee, A. (2025). Vocal repertoire expansion in singing mice by co-opting a conserved midbrain circuit node. Current Biology: CB, 35(23), 5762-5778.e6. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2025.10.036

      Ziobro, P., Woo, Y., He, Z., & Tschida, K. (2024). Midbrain neurons important for the production of mouse ultrasonic vocalizations are not required for distress calls. Current Biology: CB, 34(5), 1107-1113.e3. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2024.01.016

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      eLife Assessment

      This study offers valuable insights into how humans detect and adapt to regime shifts, highlighting dissociable contributions of the frontoparietal network and ventromedial prefrontal cortex to sensitivity to signal diagnosticity and transition probabilities. The combination of an innovative instructed-probability task, Bayesian behavioural modeling, and model-based fMRI analyses provides a solid foundation for the main claims; however, major interpretational limitations remain, particularly a potential confound between posterior switch probability and time in the neuroimaging results. At the behavioural level, reliance on explicitly instructed conditional probabilities leaves open alternative explanations that complicate attribution to a single computational mechanism, such that clearer disambiguation between competing accounts and stronger control of temporal and representational confounds would further strengthen the evidence.

      Thank you. In this revision, we addressed Reviewer 3’s remaining concern on the potential confound between posterior probability and time in neuroimaging results. First, as suggested by the reviewer, we provided images of activations for the effect of Pt and delta Pt after controlling for intertemporal prior in GLM-2. Second, we compared the effect of Pt and delta Pt between GLM-1 (without intertemporal prior) and GLM-2 (with intertemporal prior) and showed the results in a new figure (Figure 4).

      Regarding issue on reliance on explicitly instructed probabilities, we wish to point out that most of the concerns such as response mode and regression to the mean were addressed in the original behavioral paper by Massey and Wu (2005). Please see our response to this point in detail in Weakness (2) posted by Reviewer 3.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The study examines human biases in a regime-change task, in which participants have to report the probability of a regime change in the face of noisy data. The behavioral results indicate that humans display systematic biases, in particular, overreaction in stable but noisy environments and underreaction in volatile settings with more certain signals. fMRI results suggest that a frontoparietal brain network is selectively involved in representing subjective sensitivity to noise, while the vmPFC selectively represents sensitivity to the rate of change.

      Strengths:

      - The study relies on a task that measures regime-change detection primarily based on descriptive information about the noisiness and rate of change. This distinguishes the study from prior work using reversal-learning or change-point tasks in which participants are required to learn these parameters from experiences. The authors discuss these differences comprehensively.

      - The study uses a simple Bayes-optimal model combined with model fitting, which seems to describe the data well. The model is comprehensively validated.

      - The authors apply model-based fMRI analyses that provide a close link to behavioral results, offering an elegant way to examine individual biases.

      Weaknesses:

      The authors have adequately addressed my prior concerns.

      Thank you for reviewing our paper and providing constructive comments that helped us improve our paper.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Thank you again for reviewing the manuscript. In this revision, we focused on addressing your concern on the potential confound between posterior probability and time in neuroimaging results. First, we presented whole-brain results of subjects’ probability estimates (Pt, their subjective posterior probability of switch) after controlling for the effect of time on probability of switch (the intertemporal prior). Second, we compared the effect of probability estimates (Pt) on vmPFC and ventral striatum activity—which we found to correlate with Pt—with and without including intertemporal prior in the GLM. These results will be summarized in a new figure (Figure 4) in the revised manuscript.

      As suggested by the reviewer, we also added slice-by-slice images of the whole-brain results on Pt and delta Pt in the supplement in addition to the Tables of Activation so that the activated brain regions can be clearly seen through these images.

      This study concerns how observers (human participants) detect changes in the statistics of their environment, termed regime shifts. To make this concrete, a series of 10 balls are drawn from an urn that contains mainly red or mainly blue balls. If there is a regime shift, the urn is changed over (from mainly red to mainly blue) at some point in the 10 trials. Participants report their belief that there has been a regime shift as a % probability. Their judgement should (mathematically) depend on the prior probability of a regime shift (which is set at one of three levels) and the strength of evidence (also one of three levels, operationalized as the proportion of red balls in the mostly-blue urn and vice versa). Participants are directly instructed of the prior probability of regime shift and proportion of red balls, which are presented on-screen as numerical probabilities. The task therefore differs from most previous work on this question in that probabilities are instructed rather than learned by observation, and beliefs are reported as numerical probabilities rather than being inferred from participants' choice behaviour (as in many bandit tasks, such as Behrens 2007 Nature Neurosci).

      The key behavioural finding is that participants over-estimate the prior probability of regime change when it is low, and under estimate it when it is high; and participants over-estimate the strength of evidence when it is low and under-estimate it when it is high. In other words participants make much less distinction between the different generative environments than an optimal observer would. This is termed 'system neglect'. A neuroeconomic-style mathematical model is presented and fit to data.

      Functional MRI results how that strength of evidence for a regime shift (roughly, the surprise associated with a blue ball from an apparently red urn) is associated with activity in the frontal-parietal orienting network. Meanwhile at time-points where the probability of a regime shift is high, there is activity in another network including vmPFC. Both networks show individual differences effects, such that people who were more sensitive to strength of evidence and prior probability show more activity in the frontal-parietal and vmPFC-linked networks respectively.

      Strengths

      (1) The study provides a different task for looking at change-detection and how this depends on estimates of environmental volatility and sensory evidence strength, in which participants are directly and precisely informed of the environmental volatility and sensory evidence strength rather than inferring them through observation as in most previous studies

      (2) Participants directly provide belief estimates as probabilities rather than experimenters inferring them from choice behaviour as in most previous studies

      (3) The results are consistent with well-established findings that surprising sensory events activate the frontal-parietal orienting network whilst updating of beliefs about the word ('regime shift') activates vmPFC.

      Weaknesses

      (1) The use of numerical probabilities (both to describe the environments to participants, and for participants to report their beliefs) may be problematic because people are notoriously bad at interpreting probabilities presented in this way, and show poor ability to reason with this information (see Kahneman's classic work on probabilistic reasoning, and how it can be improved by using natural frequencies). Therefore the fact that, in the present study, people do not fully use this information, or use it inaccurately, may reflect the mode of information delivery.

      In the response to this comment the authors have pointed out their own previous work showing that system neglect can occur even when numerical probabilities are not used. This is reassuring but there remains a large body of classic work showing that observers do struggle with conditional probabilities of the type presented in the task.

      Thank you. Yes, people do struggle with conditional probabilities in many studies. However, as our previous work suggested (Massey and Wu, 2005), system-neglect was likely not due to response mode (having to enter probability estimates or making binary predictions, and etc.).

      (2) Although a very precise model of 'system neglect' is presented, many other models could fit the data.

      For example, you would get similar effects due to attraction of parameter estimates towards a global mean - essentially application of a hyper-prior in which the parameters applied by each participant in each block are attracted towards the experiment-wise mean values of these parameters. For example, the prior probability of regime shift ground-truth values [0.01, 0.05, 0.10] are mapped to subjective values of [0.037, 0.052, 0.069]; this would occur if observers apply a hyper-prior that the probability of regime shift is about 0.05 (the average value over all blocks). This 'attraction to the mean' is a well-established phenomenon and cannot be ruled out with the current data (I suppose you could rule it out by comparing to another dataset in which the mean ground-truth value was different).

      More generally, any model in which participants don't fully use the numerical information they were given would produce apparent 'system neglect'. Four qualitatively different example reasons are: 1. Some individual participants completely ignored the probability values given. 2. Participants did not ignore the probability values given, but combined them with a hyperprior as above. 3. Participants had a reporting bias where their reported beliefs that a regime-change had occurred tend to be shifted towards 50% (rather than reporting 'confident' values such 5% or 95%). 4. Participants underweighted probability outliers, resulting in underweighting of evidence in the 'high signal diagnosticity' environment (10.1016/j.neuron.2014.01.020 )

      In summary I agree that any model that fits the data would have to capture the idea that participants don't differentiate between the different environments as much as they should, but I think there are a number of qualitatively different reasons why they might do this - of which the above are only examples - hence I find it problematic that the authors present the behaviour as evidence for one extremely specific model.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. We thank you for putting out that there are alternative models that can describe the over- and underreaction seen in the dataset. Massey and Wu (2005) dealt with this possibility in their original paper. Their concern was not so much about alternative ways of modeling their results, but in terms of alternative psychological processes. For example, asymmetric noise accounts have been posited in the judgment and decision making literature as possible accounts of phenomena like over-confidence. They addressed what might be crudely called “regression/attraction to the mean” in two ways. First, they looked at median responses as well as mean responses (because medians are less affected by the regressive effect) and found the same patterns of over- and underreactions. Second, they also generated sequences that matched particular posterior probabilities (so that over- and underreaction cannot be explained by regression to the mean) and still found under- and overreactions.

      We also wish to point out in the judgment and decision making literature starting from Edwards (1968), there is a long history of using normative Bayesian model as the starting model and subsequently develop quasi-Bayesian models (like the system-neglect model) to describe systematic deviations from the normative Bayesian.

      Finally, we want to clarify that our primary goal is not to engage in model fitting exercise that examines different possible models. To us, what is more important is that system neglect is a psychologically motivated hypothesis. It is built on the idea that the lack of sensitivity to the system parameters is due to the fact that people focus primarily on the signals and secondarily on the system parameters that generate the signals. Massey and Wu (2005) dealt with a host of other potential explanations through experimental manipulations and data analysis. In this paper, we built on Massey and Wu to examine the neurocomputational basis that gives rise to over- and underreactions.

      (3) Despite efforts to control confounds in the fMRI study, including two control experiments, I think some confounds remain.

      For example, a network of regions is presented as correlating with the cumulative probability that there has been a regime shift in this block of 10 samples (Pt). However, regardless of the exact samples shown, Pt always increases with sample number (as by the time of later samples, there have been more opportunities for a regime shift)? To control for this the authors include, in a supplementary analysis, an 'intertemporal prior.' I would have preferred to see the results of this better-controlled analysis presented in the main figure. From the tables in the SI it is very difficult to tell how the results change with the includion of the control regressors.

      Thank you. In response, we added a new figure, now Figure 4, showing the results of Pt and delta Pt from GLM-2 where we added the intertemporal prior as a regressor to control for temporal confounds. We compared Pt and delta Pt results in vmPFC and ventral striatum between GLM-1 and GLM-2. We also showed the results on intertemporal prior on vmPFC and ventral striatum from GLM-2.

      On the other hand, two additional fMRI experiments are done as control experiments and the effect of Pt in the main study is compared to Pt in these control experiments. Whilst I admire the effort in carrying out control studies, I can't understand how these particular experiment are useful controls. For example, in experiment 3 participants simply type in numbers presented on the screen - how can we even have an estimate of Pt from this task?

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. On the one hand, the effect of Pt we see in brain activity can be simply due to motor confounds and the purpose of Experiment 3 was to control for them. Our question was, if subjects saw the similar visual layout and were just instructed to press buttons to indicate two-digit numbers, would we observe the vmPFC, ventral striatum, and the frontoparietal network like what we did in the main experiment (Experiment 1)?

      On the other hand, the effect of Pt can simply reflect probability estimates of that the current regime is the blue regime, and therefore not particularly about change detection. In Experiment 2, we tested that idea, namely whether what we found about Pt was unique to change detection. In Experiment 2, subjects estimated the probability that the current regime is the blue regime (just as they did in Experiment 1) except that there were no regime shifts involved. In other words, it is possible that the regions we identified were generally associated with probability estimation and not particularly about probability estimates of change. We used Experiment 2 to examine whether this were true.

      To make the purpose of the two control experiments clearer, we updated the paragraph describing the control experiments on page 9:

      “To establish the neural representations for regime-shift estimation, we performed three fMRI experiments (n = 30 subjects for each experiment, 90 subjects in total). Experiment 1 was the main experiment, while Experiments 2 to 3 were control experiments that ruled out two important confounds (Fig. 1E). The control experiments were designed to clarify whether any effect of subjects’ probability estimates of a regime shift, P<sub>t</sub>, in brain activity can be uniquely attributed to change detection. Here we considered two major confounds that can contribute to the effect of P<sub>t</sub>. First, since subjects in Experiment 1 made judgments about the probability that the current regime is the blue regime (which corresponded to probability of regime change), the effect of P<sub>t</sub> did not particularly have to do with change detection. To address this issue, in Experiment 2 subjects made exactly the same judgments as in Experiment 1 except that the environments were stationary (no transition from one regime to another was possible), as in Edwards (1968) classic “bookbag-and-poker chip” studies. Subjects in both experiments had to estimate the probability that the current regime is the blue regime, but this estimation corresponded to the estimates of regime change only in Experiment 1. Therefore, activity that correlated with probability estimates in Experiment 1 but not in Experiment 2 can be uniquely attributed to representing regime-shift judgments. Second, the effect of P<sub>t</sub> can be due to motor preparation and/or execution, as subjects in Experiment 1 entered two-digit numbers with button presses to indicate their probability estimates. To address this issue, in Experiment 3 subjects performed a task where they were presented with two-digit numbers and were instructed to enter the numbers with button presses. By comparing the fMRI results of these experiments, we were therefore able to establish the neural representations that can be uniquely attributed to the probability estimates of regime-shift.”

      To further make sure that the probability-estimate signals in Experiment 1 were not due to motor confounds, we implemented an action-handedness regressor in the GLM, as we described below on page 19:

      “Finally, we note that in GLM-1, we implemented an “action-handedness” regressor to directly address the motor-confound issue, that higher probability estimates preferentially involved right-handed responses for entering higher digits. The action-handedness regressor was parametric, coding -1 if both finger presses involved the left hand (e.g., a subject pressed “23” as her probability estimate when seeing a signal), 0 if using one left finger and one right finger (e.g., “75”), and 1 if both finger presses involved the right hand (e.g., “90”). Taken together, these results ruled out motor confounds and suggested that vmPFC and ventral striatum represent subjects’ probability estimates of change (regime shifts) and belief revision.”

      (4) The Discussion is very long, and whilst a lot of related literature is cited, I found it hard to pin down within the discussion, what the key contributions of this study are. In my opinion it would be better to have a short but incisive discussion highlighting the advances in understanding that arise from the current study, rather than reviewing the field so broadly.

      Thank you. We thank the reviewer for pushing us to highlight the key contributions. In response, we added a paragraph at the beginning of Discussion to better highlight our contributions:

      “In this study, we investigated how humans detect changes in the environments and the neural mechanisms that contribute to how we might under- and overreact in our judgments. Combining a novel behavioral paradigm with computational modeling and fMRI, we discovered that sensitivity to environmental parameters that directly impact change detection is a key mechanism for under- and overreactions. This mechanism is implemented by distinct brain networks in the frontal and parietal cortices and in accordance with the computational roles they played in change detection. By introducing the framework in system neglect and providing evidence for its neural implementations, this study offered both theoretical and empirical insights into how systematic judgment biases arise in dynamic environments.”

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Thank you for pointing out the inclusion of the intertemporal prior in glm2, this seems like an important control that would address my criticism. Why not present this better-controlled analysis in the main figure, rather than the results for glm1 which has no effective control of the increasing posterior probability of a reversal with time?

      Thank you for this suggestion. We added a new figure (Figure 4) that showed results of Pt and delta Pt from GLM-2. We also compared the effect of Pt and delta Pt between GLM-1 and GLM-2. We found that the effect of Pt and delta Pt did not differ between GLM-1 and GLM-2. GLM-1 and GLM-2 differed on whether various task-related regressors contributing to Pt, including the intertemporal prior, were included in the model. In GLM-1, those task-related regressors were not included. In GLM-2, the task-related regressors were included in addition to Pt and delta P.

      The reason we kept results from GLM-1 (Figure 3) was primarily because we wanted to compare the effect of Pt between experiments under identical GLM. In other words, the regressors in GLM-1 was identical across all 3 experiments. In Experiments 1 and 2, Pt and delta Pt were respectively probability estimates and belief updates that current regime was the Blue regime. In Experiment 3, Pt and delta Pt were simply the number subjects were instructed to press (Pt) and change in number between successive periods (delta Pt).

      Here is the section in the main text where we discussed the new Figure 4 on page 19-22:

      We further examined the robustness of P<sub>t</sub> and ∆P<sub>t</sub> representations in vmPFC and ventral striatum in three follow-up analyses. In the first analysis, we implemented a GLM (GLM-2 in Methods) that, in addition to P<sub>t</sub> and ∆P<sub>t</sub>, included various task-related variables contributing to P<sub>t</sub> as regressors. Specifically, to account for the fact that the probability of regime change increased over time, we included the intertemporal prior as a regressor in GLM-2. The intertemporal prior is the natural logarithm of the odds in favor of regime shift in the t-th period, , where q is transition probability and t = 1, …, 10is the period (Eq. 1 in Methods). It describes normatively how the prior probability of change increased over time regardless of the signals (blue and red balls) the subjects saw during a trial. Including it along with P<sub>t</sub> would clarify whether any effect of P<sub>t</sub> can otherwise be attributed to the intertemporal prior. We found that the results of P<sub>t</sub> and ∆P<sub>t</sub> in the vmPFC and ventral striatum in GLM-2 were identical to those in GLM-1 (Fig. 4): Fig. 4A was meant to depict the results in slices identical to those shown in Fig. 3B for results based on GLM-1. For slice-by-slice results, see Fig. S7 in SI for results based on GLM-1 and Fig. S9 for GLM-2. For Tables of activations, see Tables S1-S3 in SI for GLM-1 and Tables S7-S9 for GLM-2. In a separate, independent region-of-interest (ROI) analysis on vmPFC and ventral striatum (Fig. 4BC; see Independent regions-of-interest (ROIs) analysis in Methods for details), we further compared the effect of both P<sub>t</sub> and ∆P<sub>t</sub> between GLM-1 and GLM-2. For P<sub>t</sub>, the difference between GLM-1 and GLM-2 was not significant (paired t-test, t(58) = −0.72, p = 0.47 in vmPFC, t(58) = −0.21, p = 0.83 in ventral striatum), while the effect of P<sub>t</sub> from GLM-1 (one sample t-test, t(29) = −3,82, p <.01 in vmPFC; t(29) = −3.06, p <.01 in ventral striatum) and GLM-2 was significant (one-sample t-test, t(29) = −2.69, p =.01 in vmPFC; t(29) = −2.50, p .02 in ventral striatum). For ∆P<sub>t</sub>, the difference between GLM-1 and GLM-2 was not significant (paired t-test, t(58) = −0.07, p =0.94 in vmPFC; t(58) = −0.14, p =0.88 in ventral striatum), while the effect of  from GLM-1 (one-sample t-test, t(29) = −3.12, p <.01 in vmPFC; t(29) = −4.14, p <.01 in ventral striatum) and GLM-2 was significant (one-sample t-test, t(29) = −2.92, p <.01 in vmPFC; t(29) = −3.59, p <.01 in ventral striatum). For the intertemporal prior, activity in both vmPFC and ventral striatum did not correlate significantly with the intertemporal prior (one-sample t-test, t(29) = −0.07, p =0.95 in vmPFC; t(29) = −0.53, p =0.60 in ventral striatum). All the t-tests described above were two-tailed. Taken together, these results suggest that vmPFC and ventral striatum represented P<sub>t</sub> and ∆P<sub>t</sub> regardless of whether the intertemporal prior and other task-related regressors contributing to P<sub>t</sub> were included in the GLM. We also did not find that vmPFC and ventral striatum to represent the intertemporal prior. In the second analysis, we implemented a GLM that replaced P<sub>t</sub> with the log odds of P<sub>t</sub>, 1n (P<sub>t</sub>/(1 - P<sub>t</sub>)) (Fig. S10 in SI). In the third analysis, we implemented a GLM that examined P<sub>t</sub> separately on periods when change-consistent (blue balls) and change-inconsistent (red balls) signals appeared (Fig. S11 in SI). Each of these analyses showed significant correlation with P<sub>t</sub> in vmPFC and ventral striatum, further establishing the robustness of the P<sub>t</sub> findings.

      As a further point I could not navigate the tables of fMRI activations in SI and recommend replacing or supplementing these with images. For example I cannot actually find a vmPFC or ventral striatum cluster listed for the effect of Pt in GLM1 (version in table S1), which I thought were the main results? Beyond that, comparing how much weaker (or not) those results are when additional confound regressors are included in GLM2 seems impossible.

      As suggested by the reviewer, we added slice-by-slice images showing the effect of Pt and delta Pt (Figure S9 in SI for GLM-2 and Figure S7 for GLM-1). The clusters in blue represent Pt effect, the clusters in orange represent delta Pt effect. As can be seen, both Pt and delta Pt are represented in the vmPFC and ventral striatum.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors were seeking to identify a molecular mechanism whereby the small molecule RY785 selectively inhibits Kv2.1 channels. Specifically, the authors sought to explain some of the functional differences that RY785 exhibits in experimental electrophysiology experiments as compared to other Kv inhibitors, namely the charged and non-specific inhibitor tetraethylammonium (TEA). The authors used a recently published cryo-EM Kv2.1 channel structure in the open activated state and performed a series of multi-microsecond-long all-atom molecular dynamics simulations to study Kv2.1 channel conduction under the applied membrane voltage with and without RY785 or TEA present. They observed that while TEA directly blocks K+ permeation by occluding ion permeation pathway, RY785 binds to multiple non-polar residues near the hydrophobic gate of the channel driving it to a semi-closed non-conductive state. They confirmed this mechanism using an additional set of simulations and used it to explain experimental electrophysiology data,

      Strengths:

      The total length of simulation time is impressive, totaling many tens of microseconds. The authors develop their own forcefield parameters for the RY785 molecule based on extensive QM based parameterization. The computed permeation rate of K+ ions through the channel observed under applied voltage conditions is in reasonable agreement with experimental estimates of the single channel conductance. The authors have performed extensive simulations with the apo channel as well as both TEA and RY785. The simulations with TEA reasonably demonstrate that TEA directly blocks K+ permeation by binding in the center of the Kv2.1 channel cavity, preventing K+ ions from reaching the SCav site. The authors conclude that RY785 likely stabilizes a partially closed conformation of the Kv2.1 channel and thereby inhibits K+ current. This conclusion is plausible given that RY785 makes stable contacts with multiple hydrophobic residues in the S6 helix, which they can also validate using a recently published closed-state Kv2.1 channel cryo-EM structure. This further provides a possible mechanism for the experimental observations that RY785 speeds up the deactivation kinetics of Kv2 channels from a previous experimental electrophysiology study.

      Weaknesses:

      The authors, however, did not directly observe this semi-closed channel conformation and in fact acknowledge that more direct simulation evidence would require extensive enhanced-sampling simulations beyond the scope of this study. They have not estimated the effect of RY785 binding on the protein-based hydrophobic pore constriction, which may further substantiate their proposed mechanism. And while the authors quantified K+ permeation, they have not made any estimates of the ligand binding affinities or rates, which could have been potentially compared to experiment and used to validate their models.

      However, despite those relatively minor weaknesses, the conclusions of the study are convincing, and overall this is a solid study helping us to understand two distinct molecular mechanisms of the voltage-gated potassium channel Kv2.1 inhibition by TEA and RY785, respectively.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary

      In this manuscript, Zhang et al. investigate the conduction and inhibition mechanisms of the Kv2.1 channel, with a particular focus on the distinct effects of TEA and RY785 on Kv2 potassium channels. Using microsecond-scale molecular dynamics simulations, the authors characterize K⁺ ion permeation and RY785-mediated inhibition within the central pore. Their results reveal an inhibition mechanism that differs from those described for other Kv channel inhibitors.

      Strengths

      The study identifies a distinctive inhibitory mode for RY785, which binds along the channel walls in the open-state structure while still permitting a reduced level of K⁺ conduction. In addition, the authors propose a long-range allosteric coupling between RY785 binding in the central pore and changes in the structural dynamics of Kv2.1. Overall, this is a well-organized and carefully executed study, employing robust simulation and analysis methodologies. The work provides novel mechanistic insights into voltage-gated potassium channel inhibition and may offer useful guidance for future structure-based drug design efforts.

      Weaknesses:

      The study needs to consider the possibility of multiple binding sites for PY785, particularly given its impact on voltage sensors and gating currents. Specifically, the potential for allosteric binding sites in the voltage-sensing domain (VSD) should be assessed, as some allosteric modulators with thiazole moieties are known to bind VSD domains in multiple voltage-gated sodium channels (Ahuja et al., 2015; Li et al., 2022; McCormack et al., 2013; Mulcahy et al., 2019). Increasing structural and functional evidence supports the existence of multiple ligand-binding modes in voltage-gated ion channels. For example, polyunsaturated fatty acids have been shown to bind to KCNQ1 at both the voltage sensor domain and the pore domain (https://doi.org/10.1085/jgp.202012850). Similarly, cannabidiol has been structurally resolved in Nav1.7 at two distinct sites, one in a fenestration and another near the IFM-binding pocket (https://doi.org/10.1038/s41467-023-39307-6). These advances illustrate that ligand effects cannot always be interpreted based solely on a single binding site identified previously.

      Reviewing Editor: 

      The comments of the reviewers seem thoughtful and constructive. The weaknesses noted in reviews mainly concern mismatch between expectations, created by reading the Abstract, and data in the manuscript. The mismatch could be reconciled by either new simulations examining a semi-open state of the gate and additional RY785 binding sites, or by adjusting wording of the Abstract and Discussion to make it more clear that such simulations were not done. 

      The Abstract and Discussion have been revised to make clear the computer-simulations presented in our study were designed to specifically validate or refute the hypothesis that RY785 is recognized by the pore domain, not the voltage sensors. 

      Recommendations for the authors: 

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors): 

      The authors addressed all the major issues in the original submission identified by the reviewers. I noticed a few minor issues, listed below, which can potentially fix small errors and further improve the readability of the manuscript. 

      p.3 tetramethyl-ammonium -> tetraethylammonium 

      p.7 "Snapshot of the final snapshot" -> "Snapshot of the final simulation coordinates" 

      p. 8 "sigma value" - please spell out what it is. 

      p. 9 "one or other subunit of the tetramer" -> "one or another subunit of the tetramer" or "one or more subunits of the tetramer" 

      p 15 "(the net charge of these constructs is thus zero)." -> ""(the net charge of these constructs is zero for these systems)." Please note that using ionizable amino acid residues in their default protonation state does not guarantee net zero charge of the system since the number of cationic and anionic residues is generally not the same. 

      p. 15 "Two K+ ions were initially positioned in the selectivity filter, one coordinated by residues 373..." Please indicate at which ion binding sites S_1, S_2, e.g. K+ were located and what the residue names are . 

      SI Figs. S3-S20. Please indicate in the figure captions that all those data are for RY785 

      SI Fig. S22 and SI Table S1 captions "shown in Fig. S20" -> "shown in Fig. S21" 

      We thank the Reviewer for this thorough proofreading. We have made the necessary corrections. 

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors): 

      The authors have addressed most of my comments satisfactorily, with the exception of the first point. Below, I provide further clarification regarding my concern. 

      First, it appears that the authors may have misunderstood what is meant by the possibility of multiple binding sites for RY785. This does not imply that the central pore is excluded as a binding site. Rather, it refers to the possibility that, in addition to a pore-domain site, the ligand may interact with additional binding sites, either simultaneously or in a statedependent manner. Increasing structural and functional evidence supports the existence of multiple ligand-binding modes in voltage-gated ion channels. For example, polyunsaturated fatty acids have been shown to bind to KCNQ1 at both the voltage sensor domain and the pore domain (https://doi.org/10.1085/jgp.202012850). Similarly, cannabidiol has been structurally resolved in Nav1.7 at two distinct sites, one in a fenestration and another near the IFM-binding pocket (https://doi.org/10.1038/s41467-02339307-6). These advances illustrate that ligand ecects cannot always be interpreted based solely on a single binding site identified previously. Therefore, even if one assumes that there is no precedent for a small-molecule inhibitor that simultaneously acts on both the voltage sensor and pore domain, this does not exclude the possibility that a ligand may bind to both regions in dicerent functional states.  

      The Reviewer’s opinion came across clearly in the previous version. We however disagree that a computational investigation of the possibility that RY785 binds to the voltagesensors is well-advised at this point, given that the model we propose seemingly ocers a rationale for the inhibitory ecects observed experimentally. Our opinion is also that there is no compelling precedent for the mechanism of inhibition envisaged by the Reviewer – and would argue that neither of the two studies referenced above are compelling examples.  As we stated in our previous response to the Reviewer, we believe that the logical next step in this research will be to validate or refute the computational prediction we have put forward, experimentally. 

      In addition, the present computational study does not provide direct mechanistic evidence to explain the statement that RY785 accelerates voltage-sensor deactivation. Specifically, no simulations were performed to model pore-domain closure or voltage-sensor motion upon RY785 binding. Moreover, alternative binding sites were neither explored nor explicitly excluded, as the simulations only involved placing a single molecule of TEA or RY785 approximately 10 Å below the cytoplasmic gate. Under these conditions, conclusions regarding ecects on voltage-sensor dynamics remain speculative. 

      That is a fair characterization. 

      These concerns do not detract from the overall quality of this otherwise strong computational study. There are several straightforward ways to address this issue. For example: 

      (1) Perform molecular docking or related screening approaches to evaluate potential ligand-binding sites beyond the central pore, particularly in regions proximal to the voltage sensor. This should not impose a substantial additional computational burden for a computational chemistry group. 

      (2) Revise the abstract and discussion to clarify that the current work focuses exclusively on pore-domain binding and does not explore possible additional binding sites near the voltage sensor. Explicitly stating this limitation would help prevent potential overinterpretation by readers.

      We have opted for (2), as noted above.

  2. Apr 2026
    1. Author response:

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Using electron microscopy, the authors report discontinuities in the plasma membrane of C. elegans embryos. They associate these discontinuities with cell division and speculate that membrane rupture and subsequent resealing contribute to cytokinesis. They further discuss the proximity of these sites to vesicles and propose a role for vesicle-mediated membrane extension. 

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The possibility that the membrane discontinuity is an artifact

      Although the authors focus on discontinuities in the plasma membrane, similar discontinuities are also observed in mitochondria, the nuclear envelope, and yolk granules. This raises concerns about whether the electron micrographs presented are suitable for assessing membrane continuity.

      Electron micrographs result from a lengthy sample preparation process, including high-pressure freezing, freeze substitution in acetone containing OsO4, gradual warming, uranyl acetate staining, resin embedding, and ultrathin sectioning. In general, lipids are soluble in acetone at temperatures above −30 {degree sign}C, and preservation of membrane structures relies heavily on efficient OsO4 fixation.

      Insufficient OsO4 treatment would be expected to reduce membrane contrast.

      C. elegans embryos are encapsulated by an eggshell that forms at fertilization and gradually develops during the first few cell divisions. It is unclear how efficiently OsO4 in acetone penetrates the eggshell during freeze substitution, raising further concern about plasma membrane preservation under the conditions used.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important technical concern. We have taken this question seriously since first observing membrane discontinuities six years ago, and we have since conducted extensive controls to rule out fixation artifacts. Below, we present multiple lines of evidence—ranging from technical reproducibility to orthogonal imaging approaches—that collectively demonstrate the biological reality of these structures.

      (1) Technical expertise and standard protocols

      Our laboratory has extensive experience with electron microscopy across diverse biological systems, including neurons, muscle cells, and hypodermis in C. elegans, as well as tissues from Drosophila, mouse, bacteria, and cultured cells (Chen et al., 2013; Ding et al., 2018; Guan et al., 2022; Y. Li et al., 2018; Miao et al., 2024; Qin et al., 2014; Wang et al., 2026; J. Xu et al., 2022; M. Xu et al., 2021; L. Yang et al., 2020; X. Yang et al., 2019; Zhu et al., 2022). Importantly, we did not introduce any novel or unconventional steps in our EM preparation; all protocols were standard and well-established. Thus, the observed membrane discontinuities are unlikely to stem from technical inexperience or idiosyncratic methods.

      In addition to membrane discontinuities, we would like to emphasize that a large number of single plasma membranes separating adjacent cytoplasmic domains were also detected under EM (Figure 1, 3 and 4, for instance). This observation is particularly significant because the invagination model cannot generate single plasma membrane barriers between adjacent cytoplasmic domains. Instead, independent extension of detached sister membranes could explain the formation of cytoplasm-enclosed membranes. Furthermore, as the morphology and continuity of these single cytoplasm-immersed membrane structures are well preserved, this indicates successful EM processing and argues against inefficient fixation or other technical issues.

      (2) Reproducibility across independent preparations and techniques

      To test whether the discontinuities were preparation-specific, we examined four independent sample batches collected in the lab over the years. Membrane discontinuities, as well as cytoplasm-immersed membranes, on embryonic cells were consistently observed across all batches, indicating that the phenomenon is not dependent on a single preparation method. Furthermore, we validated our findings using two EM techniques: transmission electron microscopy (HPF-TEM) and dualbeam scanning electron microscopy (SEM). Membrane discontinuities were clearly identifiable with both techniques, further supporting their robustness.

      (3) Validation using an independent public dataset

      We examined the publicly available C. elegans embryo EM collection (WormAtlas). In several instances, particularly at the embryonic periphery where plasma membrane discontinuities are more readily visualized (https://www.wormimage.org/image.php?id=140265&page=1), we identified similar structures. The presence of these features in an independent dataset generated by different researchers confirms that they are not artifacts unique to our sample preparation.

      (4) Developmental regulation of membrane discontinuities

      We analyzed embryos across multiple developmental stages. Membrane discontinuities were observed in both intrauterine and laid embryos at early stages. However, as embryos reached the comma stage—a period marked by the onset of elongation and reduced cell proliferation—the incidence of discontinuities dropped dramatically (0/13, 0/17, and 0/30 cells examined). This developmental specificity argues strongly against a general fixation artifact, which would be expected to occur randomly across stages. Additionally, the eggshell is present throughout the embryonic stage of C. elegans; therefore, the dramatic reduction of membrane discontinuities in comma-stage of embryo argues against the possibility that the eggshell poses a fixation problem.

      (5) Rigorous criteria for identifying membrane discontinuities

      To ensure unbiased analysis, we systematically collected images from early embryonic cells using the following criteria:

      (1) Random section selection: For each sample, we randomly selected one section containing the largest number of embryos or cells (Sup Figure 2) for initial analysis. We found membrane discontinuities in 159 cells distributed across 57 embryos, representing 95% of the total sampled embryos This portion of the data is summarized in Figure 1.

      (2) Whole-membrane examination: Each putative membrane discontinuity was identified only after examining the entire plasma membrane of the cell on a given section. Importantly, aside from the discontinuity, the remainder of the plasma membrane remained intact. Moreover, in most cells, only a single discontinuity was present per section, arguing against random, widespread membrane tearing during preparation.

      (3) Neighboring section verification: Because EM preparation yields serial sections, we verified nearly all membrane discontinuities by examining adjacent sections. Again, the same membrane discontinuity was confirmed only after inspecting the entire plasma membrane on those neighboring sections as well. We will include this verification protocol in the revised Methods and additional imaging of consecutive sections would be provided if needed.

      (4) Serial section reconstruction: To further determine whether a dividing cell indeed contains one membrane rupture, we performed two serial reconstruction experiments.

      First, we used HPF-TEM to analyze 105 consecutive sections of a metaphase cell, reconstructing the entire plasma membrane and chromosome configuration. We found that one membrane rupture largely encircled the chromosomal disc (Figure 2 and Video S1), spatially aligning with the future segregation zone. Second, we used AutoCUTS-SEM to collect approximately 600 sections covering ~95% of a telophase cell containing three nuclei sharing a common cytoplasm. This tri-nucleated cell was enclosed by three distinct plasma membranes, each harboring a single rupture site. These three ruptures converged to form a Y-shaped exposed cytoplasmic region spanning >351 sections (Figure 5). Collectively, these reconstructions demonstrate that each cell contains only one discontinuity from a 3D point of view, further supporting that the phenomenon is not due to random sample preparation damage.

      (6) Orthogonal validation by live imaging: In addition to EM, we performed live imaging of plasma membrane dynamics. While live imaging provides important temporal context, we recognize its limitations in resolving membrane ultrastructure. The rapid kinetics of membrane extension (approximately 20–30 seconds for metaphase and less than 3 minutes for cytokinesis), combined with embryo motility, introduces spatiotemporal ambiguities. To capture dynamic membrane events, our live imaging using the GFP::PH membrane marker was performed at 4-second intervals, approaching the practical limit for single-section scanning of the embryo. With single-plane live imaging, nevertheless, both membrane ruptures and free-ended sister membrane structures could be detected (Figures 6), providing additional evidence that membrane rupture and independent extension of detached sister membranes underlie cytokinesis in C. elegans embryos. Notably, 3D membrane dynamics analysis using light-sheet microscopy (Fu et al. Imaging multicellular specimens with real-time optimized tiling light-sheet selective plane illumination microscopy. Nature Communications. 2016. DOI:10.1038/ncomms11088) revealed membrane ruptures in dividing early C. elegans embryonic cells, including during telophase or metaphase. Therefore, live imaging further validates the membrane rupture phenomena in dividing embryonic cells in C. elegans

      While future advances in imaging technology may enable real-time visualization at near-EM resolution, our extensive, multi-year effort to test the artifact hypothesis has convinced us that these membrane discontinuities are genuine biological features of dividing C. elegans embryonic cells.

      We are confident that the cumulative evidence presented here addresses the reviewer's concerns and demonstrates that the observed membrane discontinuities, as well as cytoplasm-immersed membranes, are not procedural artifacts but rather reflect a previously underappreciated aspect of plasma membrane dynamics during embryonic cell division.

      (2) Lack of evidence linking membrane discontinuity to cell division 

      The reported plasma membrane discontinuities are not specific to mitotic cells. If this were a physiological process playing an important role in cytokinesis, it should occur in a temporally and spatially coordinated manner with nuclear division. However, it remains unclear at what stage of the cell cycle the membrane rupture occurs and where it is located relative to chromosomes and the mitotic spindle.

      Thank you for this insightful comment. We agree that establishing a direct link between plasma membrane discontinuities and mitotic progression is critical, and we appreciate the opportunity to clarify this point.

      In C. elegans embryos, the early stages of development are characterized by rapid and extensive cell division. Within approximately 100 minutes, a two-cell embryo develops into an embryo containing nearly 30 cells. The majority of the electron microscopy analyses in our study were performed on embryos at stages with fewer than 30 cells, where most cells are actively dividing. Thus, it is reasonable to infer that the cells exhibiting membrane discontinuities are predominantly mitotic cells.

      Supporting this notion, as embryos reached the comma stage—a period marked by the onset of elongation and reduced cell proliferation—the incidence of membrane discontinuities dropped dramatically (0/13, 0/17, and 0/30 cells examined). This developmental specificity strongly suggests that membrane discontinuities are tightly linked to cell division.

      Importantly, mitotic features such as metaphase chromosomes aligned at the equatorial plane or two (or more) nuclei sharing common cytoplasm can be identified in EM images. In our single random EM section analysis, we captured membrane discontinuities in cells at metaphase, anaphase (characterized by fewer than 10 chromosomal clumps), and telophase (defined by two nuclei sharing cytoplasm). Hence, membrane discontinuities are indeed present on mitotic cells. In addition, a published work by Fu et al (Fu et al. Imaging multicellular specimens with real-time optimized tiling light-sheet selective plane illumination microscopy. Nature Communications. 2016. DOI:10.1038/ncomms11088) using light-sheet microscopy captured similar membrane discontinuities in cells displaying classical mitotic features, including anaphase or telophase.

      To further investigate the spatial relationship between membrane ruptures and chromosome organization, we performed three-dimensional reconstructions on a metaphase cell. As shown in Figure 2 and Video S1, the membrane discontinuities largely encircled the condensed chromosome disc and were spatially aligned with the future segregation zone, further revealing the relative location of membrane discontinuities to chromosomes, at least at metaphase.

      We further collected 3D information for a telophase cell containing three nuclei. This tri-nucleated cell was enclosed by three distinct plasma membranes, each harboring a single rupture site that merged to form a single rupture. The observation that membrane ruptures are present in a tri-nucleated cell is particularly informative. The tri-nucleated feature indicates that this cell underwent two rounds of cell division and that both divisions were at telophase. The presence of a single membrane rupture suggests that membrane discontinuities may persist throughout the cell cycle, as the second cell cycle began from a mother cell that still shared cytoplasm with its sister cell and already had one membrane rupture. Therefore, in addition to the mitotic phase, membrane discontinuities—at least in this context—also exist during the DNA synthesis stage.

      (3) Lack of evidence for extension of the separated membrane 

      Although the authors speculate that resealing of the ruptured membrane occurs via extension of the separated membrane, no direct evidence supporting this mechanism is presented. Proximity to vesicles alone does not demonstrate that membrane extension occurs through vesicle fusion. More direct evidence is required to support this claim.

      Thank you for raising this important point. We appreciate the opportunity to clarify our conclusion.

      In our study, EM analysis revealed the presence of cellular vesicles in close proximity to both free membrane edges and the already separated sister plasma membranes (Figure 4). However, we acknowledge that without advanced live-cell imaging, it is not possible to conclusively determine whether the extension of these separated sister membranes occurs through vesicle fusion.

      We realize that a statement in the Discussion section—“The expansion of the plasma membrane is generally driven by vesicle fusion”(page 16)—may have inadvertently led the reviewer to interpret this as our own conclusion regarding the mechanism of membrane extension in this context. In fact, that statement was intended to reflect the current general understanding of membrane expansion, not to imply that we had demonstrated such a mechanism for the free-ended sister membranes. As we subsequently noted, “However, this remains speculative and requires further experimental validation.”

      To avoid any misunderstanding, we will revise this section to clearly state that the mechanism by which the separated sister membranes extend remains unknown and that further investigation is needed to determine how existing models of membrane expansion may apply to or be adapted for this novel context.

      We thank the reviewer again for their thoughtful comment, which has helped us improve the clarity of our manuscript

      (4) Inconsistency with published work

      Numerous studies have examined cell division in developing C. elegans embryos using the GFP::PH(PLC1δ1) marker expressed from the ltIs38 transgene [pAA1; pie-1::GFP::PH(PLC1δ1) + unc-119(+)], generated by the Oegema lab (https://wormbase.org/species/c_elegans/transgene/WBTransgene00000911#01--10 ). To date, no study has reported membrane ruptures of the magnitude described here. The complexity of cell surface morphology from the 8- to 12-cell stages onward has been well documented, for example, by Fu et al. (2016) using light-sheet microscopy and 3D reconstruction (doi:10.1038/ncomms11088).

      Supplementary Movies 5, 6, and 10 of this paper illustrate how single-plane images can easily produce apparent membrane discontinuities, for example, due to membrane orientations nearly parallel to the imaging plane.

      The three single-plane images from only three embryos presented in Figure 6 are insufficient to support the authors' strong conclusions. Raw 3D data should be provided.

      Thank you for this important comment. We fully agree that the GFP::PH(PLC1δ1) marker, generated by the Oegema lab, has been widely and effectively used to study various aspects of C. elegans embryonic development. In fact, we also employed this same marker in our study to assess membrane integrity.

      However, while live imaging provides invaluable temporal resolution, its limitations in resolving membrane ultrastructure are substantial. In C. elegans embryos, early development is marked by rapid and extensive cell divisions. Within approximately 100 minutes, a two-cell embryo develops into one containing nearly 30 cells. During this fast-dividing stage, the rapid kinetics of membrane extension—approximately 20–30 seconds during metaphase and less than 3 minutes during cytokinesis— combined with embryo motility, introduce considerable spatiotemporal ambiguities. Furthermore, the longstanding invagination model of cytokinesis has shaped interpretations in the field, which may have led to ambiguous structures such as free-ended extensions being dismissed as potential artifacts rather than recognized as alternative morphological features. Theoretical and computational models have largely been built upon invagination-centric assumptions, which may have further constrained conceptual frameworks. Therefore, fluorescence protein-based live imaging analysis alone could not serve as a convincing approach to challenge the current dogma of cell division, nor did we intend it to.

      However, when reexamined in light of our findings, previous studies using this same GFP marker have in fact revealed membrane discontinuities that went unnoticed. For example, Fu et al (Fu et al. Imaging multicellular specimens with real-time optimized tiling light-sheet selective plane illumination microscopy. Nature Communications. 2016. DOI:10.1038/ncomms11088) using light-sheet microscopy and 3D reconstruction, captured membrane discontinuities in cells undergoing mitotic phases such as anaphase or telophase. Similarly, an earlier study by Harrell and Goldstein (Harrell and Goldstein. 2011. Internalization of multiple cells during C. elegans gastrulation depends on common cytoskeletal mechanisms but different cell polarity and cell fate regulators. Developmental Biology. DOI:10.1016/j.ydbio.2010.09.012) showed regions where the GFP::PH signal appeared fuzzy and discontinuous.

      Nevertheless, given the inherent limitations of fluorescence microscopy in resolving membrane ultrastructure, high-resolution electron microscopy—supported by rigorous controls and serial section analysis—remains the gold standard for definitively identifying such membrane discontinuities.

      We acknowledge that our findings are surprising. We did not set out to challenge the long-held view of membrane integrity during cell division. In fact, this study began when our dedicated EM technician, Jingjing Liang, first observed membrane discontinuity phenomena in control samples—wild-type embryos. Had she not come across this observation, we likely would never have pursued this line of inquiry.

      We appreciate the opportunity to clarify these points and thank the reviewer for thoughtful engagement with our work.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Liang et al. explore an unusual observation of membrane discontinuities in dividing C. elegans embryonic cells. This report is the first to demonstrate that, instead of the classical invagination of membranes during cytokinesis, cells in the early embryos of C. elegans exhibit separation of sister membranes that extend independently. TEM images of high-pressure-frozen samples provide strong evidence for the presence of Membrane Openings (MOs) in cells at various stages of the cell cycle, predominantly during mitosis. High-resolution images (x 30,000) clearly show the wrinkled plasma membrane and smooth MOs.

      The electron microscopy data are supported by the live cell imaging of strains with fluorescently tagged membrane markers. This study opens up the possibility of tracking MOs at other stages of C. elegans development, and also asks if it might be a common phenomenon in other species that exhibit rapid embryonic growth and divisions. 

      Strengths:

      (1) Thorough verification of Membrane Openings (MO) by several methods: 

      (a) 4 independent sample batches.

      (b) Examined historical collections.

      (c) Analysed embryos at different stages of development. The absence of MOs in later stages (comma) serves as a negative control and gives confidence that MOs are genuine and not technical artifacts. 

      (2) Live cell imaging of strain with fluorescently labelled membranes provides realtime dynamics of membrane rupture.

      (3) After observing the membrane rupture, the next obvious question is - what prevents the cytosol from leaking out? The EM images showing PBL and PEL - extracellular matrix serving as barriers for the cytosol are convincing.

      Thanks to the reviewer for the encouragement. Highly appreciated.

      Weakness:

      (1) The association of membrane discontinuities with cell division is not convincing, as there are 159 cells out of 425 showing MOs, but it is not mentioned clearly how many of these are undergoing cell division. Also, it's not clear whether the 20 dividing cells analysed for MOs are a part of the 159 cells or a separate dataset. A graphical representation of the number of samples and observed frequencies would be helpful to understand the data collection workflow.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for raising this important question and appreciate the opportunity to clarify these points.

      (1) Relationship between membrane discontinuities and cell division

      In C. elegans embryos, early development is characterized by rapid and extensive cell division: within approximately 100 minutes, a two-cell embryo develops into one containing nearly 30 cells. Most of our electron microscopy (EM) analyses were performed on embryos at stages with fewer than 30 cells, in which the majority of cells are actively dividing. Therefore, it is reasonable to infer that the cells exhibiting membrane discontinuities (MOs) are predominantly mitotic. Supporting this, as embryos reached the comma stage—when cell proliferation declines and elongation begins—the incidence of MOs dropped sharply (0/13, 0/17, and 0/30 cells examined. This developmental specificity strongly links MOs to cell division.

      Moreover, in single random EM sections, we observed MOs in cells displaying clear mitotic features, such as metaphase chromosomes aligned at the equatorial plate, or anaphase/telophase configurations (fewer than 10 chromosomal clumps or two nuclei sharing common cytoplasm). Thus, MOs are indeed present in mitotic cells.

      From our 3D reconstruction (Figure 5), we identified a telophase cell containing three nuclei, each enclosed by its own plasma membrane, with each membrane harboring a single rupture that converged into a single opening. This tri-nucleated configuration indicates that the cell had undergone two rounds of division and was at telophase in both. The presence of a single membrane rupture in this context suggests that MOs can persist beyond mitosis, as the second cell cycle initiated from a mother cell that already shared cytoplasm with its sister and already contained a rupture. Thus, in this case, MOs were also present during DNA synthesis stage.

      (2) Clarification of sample numbers and datasets

      In Figure 1, we present results from a single EM section per embryonic cell, with sections randomly selected per embryo as detailed in Sup Figure 2. This initial dataset (425 cells) forms the basis of Figure 1.

      From the same pool of 425 cells, we used additional EM sections—distinct from those shown in Sup Figure 2—to locate 20 dividing cells for analysis of membrane discontinuities. Thus, while these 20 cells originated from the same set of embryos, they were not derived from the sections used in Figure 1 or Sup Figure 2.

      A graphical summary of sample numbers from the single-section analysis is already provided in Figure 1. Notably, cells with two clearly visible nuclei are more likely to be sectioned through or near their maximal diameter. In contrast, the randomly selected sections used for Figure 1 captured cells at variable planes, reducing the likelihood of observing MOs. Consistent with this, in the three embryos where no MOs were detected (one example is Sup Figure 2N), the sections likely passed through peripheral regions of the cells. Consequently, the frequency of MOs in randomly sectioned cells (Figure 1) is not directly comparable to that observed in the 20 dividing cells, which were analyzed using sections more likely to capture cells near their maximal diameter. These 20 dividing cells should therefore be considered a separate analysis. We will add detailed explanations in the Methods section to ensure this distinction is clearly understood.

      We are grateful for the reviewer’s thoughtful feedback and believe these clarifications will improve the clarity and rigor of the manuscript.

      (2) In Figures 3A and 3B, the resolution of the images is not enough to verify 3A as classical membrane invagination and 3B as detached sister membranes.

      Thank you for your valuable comment. In the revised manuscript, we will provide additional images at higher magnification to better illustrate the classical membrane invagination in Figure 3A and the detached sister membranes in Figure 3B.

      (3) Figure 6 lacks controls. How does the classical invagination look in this strain? Also, adding nuclear dye would be informative, in order to correlate the nuclear division with membrane rupture, as claimed. 

      Thank you for this important comment. As we addressed how we correlated nuclear division with membrane rupture in response to weakness (1), below we will focus on how we may distinguish classical invagination from membrane rupture.

      While live imaging provides invaluable temporal resolution, its limitations in resolving membrane ultrastructure are substantial. In C. elegans embryos, early development is marked by rapid and extensive cell divisions. Within approximately 100 minutes, a two-cell embryo develops into one containing nearly 30 cells. During this fast-dividing stage, the rapid kinetics of membrane extension—approximately 20–30 seconds during metaphase and less than 3 minutes during cytokinesis— combined with embryo motility, introduce considerable spatiotemporal ambiguities. Furthermore, the longstanding invagination model of cytokinesis has shaped interpretations in the field, which may have led to ambiguous structures such as free-ended extensions being dismissed as potential artifacts rather than recognized as alternative morphological features. Theoretical and computational models have largely been built upon invagination-centric assumptions, which may have further constrained conceptual frameworks. Therefore, fluorescence protein-based live imaging analysis alone could not serve as a convincing approach to challenge the current dogma of cell division, nor did we intend it to.

      However, when reexamined in light of our findings, previous studies using GFP::PH or similar markers have in fact revealed membrane discontinuities that went unnoticed. For example, using light-sheet microscopy and 3D reconstruction, Fu et al captured membrane discontinuities in cells undergoing division such as anaphase or telophase (Fu et al. Imaging multicellular specimens with real-time optimized tiling light-sheet selective plane illumination microscopy. Nature Communications. 2016.DOI:10.1038/ncomms11088)

      Similarly, an earlier study by Goldstein et al. (Harrell and Goldstein. 2011. Internalization of multiple cells during C. elegans gastrulation depends on common cytoskeletal mechanisms but different cell polarity and cell fate regulators. Developmental Biology. DOI:10.1016/j.ydbio.2010.09.012) showed regions where the GFP::PH signal appeared fuzzy and discontinuous.

      Here, to capture dynamic membrane events, our live imaging using the GFP::PH membrane marker was performed at 4-second intervals, approaching the practical limit for single-section scanning of the embryo. With single-plane live imaging, both membrane ruptures and free-ended sister membrane structures (Figures 6) could be detected, providing additional evidence that membrane rupture and independent extension of detached sister membranes underlie cytokinesis in C. elegans embryos.

      However, given the inherent limitations of fluorescence microscopy in resolving membrane ultrastructure, high-resolution electron microscopy—supported by rigorous controls and serial section analysis—remains the gold standard for definitively distinguishing invagination from membrane discontinuities.

      While future advances in imaging technology may enable real-time visualization at near-EM resolution, our extensive, multi-year effort to test the artifact hypothesis has convinced us that these membrane discontinuities are genuine biological features of dividing C. elegans embryonic cells.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, the authors challenge a dogma in cell biology, namely that cells are at any time point engulfed by a continuous plasma membrane. Liang et al. find that during C elegans embryogenesis, a high number of cells are not entirely surrounded by a plasma membrane but show membrane openings (MOs). These openings are enriched at the embryo's periphery, towards the eggshell. The authors propose that plasma membrane discontinuities emerge during metaphase of mitosis and that independent extension of "sister membranes" engulfs the daughter cells.

      Strengths:

      On the positive side, the authors find plasma membrane discontinuities not only by electron microscopy but also by fluorescence microscopy and provide information about the dynamics of membrane openings and their emergence. While this is assuring, the authors conclude that MOs emerge during metaphase. From what the authors show, this particular information cannot be deduced, as there is no dynamic capture of a membrane scission event together with a chromatin marker that would indicate mitosis. The authors could, however, attempt to find such events in live movies, given the high incidence of MOs reported from their EM data.

      Thanks to the reviewer for the encouragement. Highly appreciated.

      Weaknesses:

      In order to convincingly demonstrate the absence of any plasma membrane in the respective regions of the embryonic periphery or between cells of the embryo, the authors would have to show consecutive serial TEM sections where MOs are detected over more z-planes, beyond the mere 3D reconstructions. Although the authors state in the methods section that continuous ultrathin sections were cut for the metaphase sample (page 21, line 472), consecutive sections are never shown in TEM. While we do see the 3D reconstructions, better documentation of the underlying TEM data is missing. It would be necessary to show a membrane opening in consecutive z sections. Alternatively, the authors could seek the possibility to convincingly back up their claims with volume imaging by focused ion beam scanning EM (FIBSEM), where cellular volumes can be sectioned in almost isotropic resolution

      We Thank the reviewer for raising these important technical concerns. We have taken this question seriously since first observing membrane discontinuities six years ago, and we have since conducted extensive controls to rule out fixation artifacts.

      First of all, in addition to membrane discontinuities, we would like to highlight that a large number of single plasma membranes separating adjacent cytoplasmic domains were detected by EM (Figure 1, 3 and 4). This observation is particularly significant because the invagination model cannot account for the formation of single plasma membrane barriers between adjacent cytoplasmic domains. Instead, independent extension of detached sister membranes offers a plausible explanation for the generation of cytoplasm-immersed membranes. Furthermore, the morphology and continuity of these single cytoplasm-immersed membrane structures are well preserved, indicating successful EM processing and arguing against potential issues such as inadequate fixation or other technical limitations.

      Second, we applied rigorous criteria for identifying membrane discontinuities:

      (1) To test whether the discontinuities were preparation specific, we examined four independent sample batches and validated our findings using two EM techniques: transmission electron microscopy (HPF-TEM) and dual-beam scanning electron microscopy (SEM).

      (2) We analyzed embryos across multiple developmental stages. Membrane discontinuities were observed in both intrauterine and laid embryos at early stages. However, as embryos reached the comma stage—a period marked by the onset of elongation and reduced cell proliferation—the incidence of discontinuities dropped dramatically (0/13, 0/17, and 0/30 cells examined). This developmental specificity argues strongly against a general fixation artifact, which would be expected to occur randomly across stages. Additionally, the eggshell is present throughout the embryonic stage of C. elegans; therefore, the dramatic reduction of membrane discontinuities in comma-stage of embryo argues against the possibility that the eggshell poses a fixation problem.

      (3) Each putative membrane discontinuity was identified only after examining the entire plasma membrane of the cell on a given section. Importantly, aside from the discontinuity, the remainder of the plasma membrane remained intact. Moreover, in most cells, only a single discontinuity was present per section, arguing against random, widespread membrane tearing during preparation. Because EM preparation yields serial sections, we verified nearly all membrane discontinuities by examining adjacent sections. Again, the same membrane discontinuity was confirmed only after inspecting the entire plasma membrane on those neighboring sections as well. We will include this verification protocol in the revised Methods and additional imaging of consecutive sections would be provided if needed.

      To further determine whether a dividing cell indeed contains one membrane rupture, we performed two serial reconstruction experiments using consecutive sections, as the reviewer suggested. First, we used HPF-TEM to analyze 105 consecutive sections of a metaphase cell, reconstructing the entire plasma membrane and chromosome configuration. We found that one membrane rupture largely encircled the chromosomal disc (Figure 2 and Video S1), spatially aligning with the future segregation zone. Second, we used AutoCUTS-SEM to collect approximately 600 sections covering ~95% of a telophase cell containing three nuclei sharing a common cytoplasm. This tri-nucleated cell was enclosed by three distinct plasma membranes, each harboring a single rupture site. These three ruptures converged to form a Yshaped exposed cytoplasmic region spanning >351 sections (Figure 5). Collectively, these reconstructions demonstrate that each cell contains only one discontinuity from a 3D point of view, further supporting that the phenomenon is not due to random sample preparation damage.

      (4) In addition to EM, we performed live imaging of plasma membrane dynamics. While live imaging provides important temporal context, we recognize its limitations in resolving membrane ultrastructure. The rapid kinetics of membrane extension (approximately 20–30 seconds for metaphase and less than 3 minutes for cytokinesis), combined with embryo motility, introduces spatiotemporal ambiguities. To capture dynamic membrane events, our live imaging using the GFP::PH membrane marker was performed at 4-second intervals, approaching the practical limit for single-section scanning of the embryo. With single-plane live imaging, nevertheless, both putative membrane ruptures (Figure 6A) and free-ended sister membrane structures could be detected (Figures 6B and 6C), providing additional evidence that membrane rupture and independent extension of detached sister membranes underlie cytokinesis in C. elegans embryos. Notably, 3D membrane dynamics analysis using light-sheet microscopy (Fu et al. Imaging multicellular specimens with real-time optimized tiling light-sheet selective plane illumination microscopy. Nature Communications. 2016. DOI:10.1038/ncomms11088). revealed membrane ruptures in dividing early C. elegans embryonic cells, including during telophase and metaphase. Therefore, live imaging further validates the membrane rupture phenomena in dividing embryonic cells in C. elegans

      We are confident that the cumulative evidence presented here addresses the reviewer's concerns and demonstrates that the observed membrane discontinuities, as well as cytoplasm-immersed membranes, are not procedural artifacts but rather reflect a previously underappreciated aspect of plasma membrane dynamics during embryonic cell division.

      Another critical issue concerns the detection of the membrane discontinuities in electron micrographs, which, in my opinion, is ambiguous. How do the authors reliably discriminate in their TEM images whether there is a plasma membrane or not? The absence - or weak appearance - of the stain of the electron dense material at membranes, which seems to be their criterion for MOs, is also apparent at other, intracellular membranes, like at the NE or at the ER (for example, see Figure 1C). Also, the plasma membrane itself appears unevenly stained in regions that the authors delineate as intact (for example, Figure 1C, 2B/1).

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important concern.

      First, our laboratory has extensive experience with electron microscopy across diverse biological systems, including neurons, muscle cells, and hypodermis in C. elegans, as well as tissues from Drosophila, mouse, bacteria, and cultured cells (Chen et al., 2013; Ding et al., 2018; Guan et al., 2022; Y. Li et al., 2018; Miao et al., 2024; Qin et al., 2014; Wang et al., 2026; J. Xu et al., 2022; M. Xu et al., 2021; L. Yang et al., 2020; X. Yang et al., 2019; Zhu et al., 2022). Importantly, we did not introduce any novel or unconventional steps in our EM preparation; all protocols were standard and well established. Thus, the observed membrane discontinuities are unlikely to result from technical inexperience or idiosyncratic methods.

      Second, because EM preparation yields serial sections, we verified nearly all membrane discontinuities by examining adjacent sections. Specifically, a membrane discontinuity was confirmed only after inspecting the entirety of the plasma membrane in neighboring sections. We will include this verification protocol in the revised Methods section, and additional images of consecutive sections can be provided if needed.

      Third, in addition to membrane discontinuities, a large number of single plasma membranes separating adjacent cytoplasmic domains were detected by EM (Figure 1, 3 and 4). This observation is particularly significant because the invagination model cannot account for the formation of single plasma membrane barriers between adjacent cytoplasmic domains. Instead, independent extension of detached sister membranes offers a plausible explanation for the generation of cytoplasm-immersed membranes. Furthermore, the morphology and continuity of these single cytoplasm-immersed membrane structures are well preserved, indicating successful EM processing and arguing against potential issues such as inadequate fixation or other technical limitations.

      EM-related publications by Jingjing Liang:

      Chen D, Jian Y, Liu X, Zhang Y, Liang J, Qi X, Du H, Zou W, Chen L, Chai Y, Ou G, Miao L, Wang Y, Yang C. 2013. Clathrin and AP2 Are Required for Phagocytic Receptor-Mediated Apoptotic Cell Clearance in Caenorhabditis elegans. PLoS Genetics 9:e1003517. DOI: https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pgen.1003517

      Ding L, Yang X, Tian H, Liang J, Zhang F, Wang G, Wang Y, Ding M, Shui G, Huang X. 2018. Seipin regulates lipid homeostasis by ensuring calcium‐dependent mitochondrial metabolism. The EMBO Journal 37:e97572. DOI: https://doi.org/10.15252/embj.201797572

      Guan L, Yang Y, Liang J, Miao Y, Shang A, Wang B, Wang Y, Ding M. 2022. ERGIC2 and ERGIC3 regulate the ER‐to‐Golgi transport of gap junction proteins in metazoans. Traffic 23:140–157. DOI: https://doi.org/10.1111/tra.12830

      Li Y, Zhang Y, Gan Q, Xu M, Ding X, Tang G, Liang J, Liu K, Liu X, Wang X, Guo L, Gao Z, Hao X, Yang C. 2018. C . elegans -based screen identifies lysosome-damaging alkaloids that induce STAT3-dependent lysosomal cell death. Protein & Cell 9:1013–1026. DOI: https://doi.org/10.1007/s13238-018-0520-0

      Miao Y, Du Y, Wang B, Liang J, Liang Y, Dang S, Liu J, Li D, He K, Ding M. 2024. Spatiotemporal recruitment of the ubiquitin-specific protease USP8 directs endosome maturation. eLife 13:RP96353. DOI: https://doi.org/10.7554/eLife.96353

      Qin J, Liang J, Ding M. 2014. Perlecan Antagonizes Collagen IV and ADAMTS9/GON-1 in Restricting the Growth of Presynaptic Boutons. Journal of Neuroscience 34:10311–10324. DOI: https://doi.org/10.1523/JNEUROSCI.5128-13.2014

      Wang Z, Zhang L, Zhou B, Liang J, Tian Y, Jiang Z, Tao J, Yin C, Chen S, Zhang W, Zhang J, Wei W. 2026. A single MYB transcription factor GmMYB331 regulates seed oil accumulation and seed size/weight in soybean. Journal of Integrative Plant Biology 68:470– 485. DOI: https://doi.org/10.1111/jipb.70101

      Xu J, Chen S, Wang W, Man Lam S, Xu Y, Zhang S, Pan H, Liang J, Huang Xiahe, Wang Yu, Li T, Jiang Y, Wang Yingchun, Ding M, Shui G, Yang H, Huang Xun. 2022. Hepatic CDP-diacylglycerol synthase 2 deficiency causes mitochondrial dysfunction and promotes rapid progression of NASH and fibrosis. Science Bulletin 67:299–314. DOI: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.scib.2021.10.014

      Xu M, Ding L, Liang J, Yang X, Liu Y, Wang Y, Ding M, Huang X. 2021. NAD kinase sustains lipogenesis and mitochondrial metabolism through fatty acid synthesis. Cell Reports 37:110157. DOI: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.celrep.2021.110157

      Yang L, Liang J, Lam SM, Yavuz A, Shui G, Ding M, Huang X. 2020. Neuronal lipolysis participates in PUFA‐mediated neural function and neurodegeneration. EMBO reports 21:e50214. DOI: https://doi.org/10.15252/embr.202050214

      Yang X, Liang J, Ding L, Li X, Lam S-M, Shui G, Ding M, Huang X. 2019. Phosphatidylserine synthase regulates cellular homeostasis through distinct metabolic mechanisms. PLOS Genetics 15:e1008548. DOI: https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pgen.1008548

      Zhu J, Lam SM, Yang L, Liang J, Ding M, Shui G, Huang X. 2022. Reduced phosphatidylcholine synthesis suppresses the embryonic lethality of seipin deficiency. Life Metabolism 1:175–189. DOI: https://doi.org/10.1093/lifemeta/loac02

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In their paper entitled "Alpha-Band Phase Modulates Perceptual Sensitivity by Changing Internal Noise and Sensory Tuning," Pilipenko et al. investigate how pre-stimulus alpha phase influences near-threshold visual perception. The authors aim to clarify whether alpha phase primarily shifts the criterion, multiplicatively amplifies signals, or changes the effective variance and tuning of sensory evidence. Six observers completed many thousands of trials in a double-pass Gabor-in-noise detection task while an EEG was recorded. The authors combine signal detection theory, phase-resolved analyses, and reverse correlation to test mechanistic predictions. The experimental design and analysis pipeline provide a clear conceptual scaffold, with SDT-based schematic models that make the empirical results accessible even for readers who are not specialists in classification-image methods.

      Strengths:

      The study presents a coherent and well-executed investigation with several notable strengths. First, the main behavioral and EEG results in Figure 2 demonstrate robust pre-stimulus coupling between alpha phase and d′ across a substantial portion of the pre-stimulus interval, with little evidence that the criterion is modulated to a comparable extent. The inverse phasic relationship between hit and false-alarm rates maps clearly onto the variance-reduction account, and the response-consistency analysis offers an intuitive behavioral complement: when two identical stimuli are both presented at the participant's optimal phase, responses are more consistent than when one or both occur at suboptimal phases. The frontal-occipital phase-difference result suggests a coordinated rather than purely local phase mechanism, supporting the central claim that alpha phase is linked to changes in sensitivity that behave like changes in internal variability rather than simple gain or criterion shifts. Supplementary analyses showing that alpha power has only a limited relationship with d′ and confidence reassure readers that the main effects are genuinely phase-linked rather than a recasting of amplitude differences.

      Second, the reverse-correlation results in Figure 3 extend this story in a satisfying way. The classification images and their Gaussian fits show that at the optimal phase, the weighting of stimulus energy is more sharply concentrated around target-relevant spatial frequencies and orientations, and the bootstrapped parameter distributions indicate that the suboptimal phase is best described by broader tuning and a modest change in gain rather than a pure criterion account. The authors' interpretation that optimal-phase perception reflects both reduced effective internal noise and sharpened sensory tuning is reasonable and well-supported. Overall, the data and figures largely achieve the stated aims, and the work is likely to have an impact both by clarifying the interpretation of alpha-phase effects and by illustrating a useful analytic framework that other groups can adopt.

      Weaknesses:

      The weaknesses are limited and relate primarily to framing and presentation rather than to the substance of the work. First, because contrast was titrated to maintain moderate performance (d′ between 1.2 and 1.8), the phase-linked changes in sensitivity appear modest in absolute terms, which could benefit from explicit contextualization. Second, a coding error resulted in unequal numbers of double-pass stimulus pairs across participants, which affects the interpretability of the response-consistency results. Third, several methodological details could be stated more explicitly to enhance transparency, including stimulus timing specifications, electrode selection criteria, and the purpose of phase alignment in group averaging. Finally, some mechanistic interpretations in the Discussion could be phrased more conservatively to clearly distinguish between measurement and inference, particularly regarding the relationship between reduced internal noise and sharpened tuning, and the physiological implementation of the frontal-occipital phase relationship.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s thoughtful and constructive feedback, particularly regarding clarity and framing. In response, we have made several revisions to improve transparency and contextualization throughout the manuscript.

      First, we now explicitly contextualize the relatively modest change in sensitivity by adding discussion of the contrast-titration procedure and its implications for effect size interpretation. Second, we address the coding error that led to unequal numbers of double-pass stimulus pairs across participants sooner in the manuscript by reporting the average number of pairs per participant in the Results (as well as the Methods), allowing for readers to interpret the results more appropriately. Third, we have provided additional detail, including precise stimulus timing parameters, electrode selection criteria, and a clearer explanation of the rationale for phase alignment in the Results (in addition to the Methods) section. Finally, we have revised portions of the Discussion to adopt more conservative language when interpreting our results, which more clearly distinguishes between empirical observations and mechanistic inferences, along with offering additional interpretations for the frontal-occipital phase relationship.

      We believe these revisions substantially improve the clarity, transparency, and interpretability of the manuscript.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The study of Pilipenko et al evaluated the role of alpha phase in a visual perception paradigm using the framework of signal detection theory and reverse correlation. Their findings suggest that phase-related modulations in perception are mediated by a reduction in internal noise and a moderate increase in tuning to relevant features of the stimuli in specific phases of the alpha cycle. Interestingly, the alpha phase did not affect the criterion. Criterion was related to modulations in alpha power, in agreement with previous research.

      Strengths:

      The experiment was carefully designed, and the analytical pipeline is original and suited to answer the research question. The authors frame the research question very well and propose several models that account for the possible mechanisms by which the alpha phase can modulate perception. This study can be very valuable for the ongoing discussion about the role of alpha activity in perception.

      Weaknesses:

      The sample size collected (N = 6) is, in my opinion, too small for the statistical approach adopted (group level). It is well known that small sample sizes result in an increased likelihood of false positives; even in the case of true positives, effect sizes are inflated (Button et al., 2013; Tamar and Orban de Xivry, 2019), negatively affecting the replicability of the effect.

      Although the experimental design allows for an accurate characterization of the effects at the single-subject level, conclusions are drawn from group-level aggregated measures. With only six subjects, the estimation of between-subject variability is not reliable. The authors need to acknowledge that the sample size is too small; therefore, results should be interpreted with caution.

      Conclusion:

      This study addresses an important and timely question and proposes an original and well-thought-out analytical framework to investigate the role of alpha phase in visual perception. While the experimental design and theoretical motivation are strong, the very limited sample size substantially constrains the strength of the conclusions that can be drawn at the group level.

      Bibliography:

      Button, K., Ioannidis, J., Mokrysz, C. et al. Power failure: why small sample size undermines the reliability of neuroscience. Nat Rev Neurosci 14, 365-376 (2013). https://doi.org/10.1038/nrn3475

      Tamar R Makin, Jean-Jacques Orban de Xivry (2019) Science Forum: Ten common statistical mistakes to watch out for when writing or reviewing a manuscript eLife 8:e48175 https://doi.org/10.7554/eLife.48175

      We thank the reviewer for their supportive remarks on our design and analysis, and for raising this important statistical concern about our sample size (n=6). Our choice of a small sample size was driven by methodological considerations. Specifically, our reverse correlation analysis requires a large number of trials per participant, as it estimates perceptual tuning by regressing behavioral responses against fluctuations in the energy of stimulus features (orientation and spatial frequency). This approach, as well as the computation of signal detection theory (SDT) metrics such as d′ and criterion, depends on high trial counts to obtain reliable estimates, particularly given that our analysis further subdivides trials across eight phase bins. For this reason, we prioritized collecting a large number of trials per participant (∼5,000), which is consistent with established practices in psychophysical research.

      Importantly, our approach means that our design is reliable on the individual level, which motivated us to include a new binomial probability testing in our revised paper. This binomial test helps address concerns about the generalizability of our results. Binomial testing considers each participant as an independent replication of the effect and then computes the p-value associated with the probability of having observed the given number of statistically significant participants by chance, with a false positive rate of 0.05. In our data, 3 out of 6 participants showed significant effects, which corresponds to a probability of 0.002 of having observed these effects by chance alone. We believe this converging evidence supports the replicability and generalizability of our results. To improve the transparency of the single-subject data, we have included single-participant results in the Supplemental Materials to allow readers to directly assess the consistency of effects across individuals and to better contextualize between-subject variability.

      Thank you again for your suggestions, we believe that these additions have greatly improved our manuscript by demonstrating the robustness of our findings and increasing the transparency of our single-subject results.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewing Editor Comments:

      The issue of generalizability arose during the review process, as your results are based on a small sample of participants who undertook a very large number of trials. In the revised version, it would be useful to discuss why this approach is valid, especially in the context of linking EEG with modeling (i.e., why it is more powerful than having many participants with fewer trials), and the extent to which your results can generalize to the population.

      We sincerely appreciate all of the helpful comments provided by the reviewers and hope we can address the concerns of our experimental approach. In the introduction, we have emphasized the importance of our current small sample size design, which allows us to reliably compute our signal detection theory metrics across 8 phase bins in addition to including the reverse correlation analysis. In the methods section, we have added a description of the binomial probability statistical framework, which addresses the generalizability of our results. In this framework, each participant is viewed as an independent replication and the p-value reflects the probability of having observed the number of individually significant subjects from the total sample size by chance. In this regard, observing a significant effect in 3 out of 6 participants (as in our study) from chance alone has a 0.002 probability, which we believe is unlikely and instead reflects a true effect present in the general population.

      Below I have copied our changes in the introduction and methods sections.

      “... in a large number of trials (6,020 per observer, n = 6) across multiple EEG sessions. This approach ensures a sufficient number of trials in order to reliably compute signal detection theory (SDT) metrics across multiple alpha phase bins while also affording enough statistical power for reverse correlation analysis (Xue et al., 2024), making it preferred over having a larger sample size with fewer trials.”

      “Additionally, we used a binomial probability testing framework that is designed for small sample sizes and treats each participant as an independent replication. As such, it computes the probability of having observed the number of statistically significant outcomes by chance given our sample size (Schwarzkopf & Huang, 2024).”

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      My suggestions are intended to be light-touch and focused on strengthening the clarity and durability of the Reviewed Preprint rather than on additional experimentation or major new analyses.

      (1) Limitation statement for the double-pass coding error:

      Add a short statement in the Methods or Results acknowledging that the coding error led to markedly fewer repeated stimulus pairs for the first three participants than for the last three. For the response-consistency result in Figure 2E, a simple acknowledgement that the available evidence is stronger for some participants than others will help readers calibrate their confidence without detracting from the main story.

      Thank you for this suggestion, we have now added a statement to this effect in the Results section, in addition to the description already mentioned in the Methods section.

      “To examine this, we implemented a double-pass stimulus presentation (~600 stimulus pairs for participants 1-3 and ~2,500 pairs for participants 4-6) and analyzed participant’s response consistency (Xue et al., 2024) to two identical stimuli.”

      (2) Contextualizing the titrated performance level:

      In the Discussion, explicitly note that contrast was titrated to keep d′ between approximately 1.2 and 1.8, which intentionally maintains moderate performance. This contextualization will help readers understand that while the phase-linked changes appear modest in absolute terms, they are mechanistically informative within this design.

      Thank you, we have included a sentence to the Discussions speaking to this point.

      “We also note that the observed modulation of d’ between optimal and suboptimal phases was relatively modest in absolute terms (0.21) in our study and could therefore require many trials per subject to detect. Two reasons for this modest effect size could be related to specific features of our task design. First, we titrated stimulus contrast to maintain consistent task performance. This titration could have reduced the magnitude of the phase effect on d’ that would otherwise be apparent if the stimulus intensity were kept constant. Additionally, the use of (relatively) high-contrast random noise likely means that trial-to-trial variability in perception is largely driven by random fluctuations in the noise properties and, to a lesser extent, internal brain state. Although both of these choices were necessary to perform SDT and reverse correlation analysis, they differ from many previous studies investigating alpha phase using only near-threshold detection in the absence of external noise and may contribute to an underestimation of the true effect size.”

      (3) Methods clarifications:

      (a) Replace placeholder text such as "{plus minus}" and "{degree sign}" with the appropriate symbols, and ensure that any equations implied in the reverse-correlation section are fully present.

      Thank you for bringing this to our attention, these placeholder texts are an artifact of the conversion process and we will correct this.

      (b) State explicitly that the 8 ms stimulus duration corresponds to a single frame on your 120 Hz display, which will clarify the timing in Figure 1A and the pre-stimulus windows in the phase analyses.

      Thank you, we have added language to both the Method and Results sections explicitly indicating that the 8 ms stimulus choice corresponds to a single screen refresh. Additionally, we changed the text in Figure 1A to include inter-trial interval timing (as opposed to merely saying “Start Trial”):

      “(A) Task design. Each trial contained a brief, filtered-noise stimulus (8 ms; one screen refresh) presented to the right or left of fixation with equal probability.”

      “Each participant (n = 6) completed 5-6 EEG sessions of a Yes/No detection paradigm whereby participants reported the presence or absence of a brief (8 ms; one screen refresh) vertical Gabor target (2 cycles per degree) with concurrent confidence judgments (see Figure 1A), along with an additional imagination judgement (reported in the supplemental materials).”

      (c) In the description of the post-stimulus taper, consider phrasing the rationale in terms of minimizing contamination from evoked responses rather than asserting that the taper ends before the earliest evoked response, which keeps the argument correct without committing to a precise latency boundary.

      Thank you for this suggestion. We have changed our rationale for the taper to “minimizing”, rather than avoiding, the evoked response.

      “This resulted in the post-stimulus data being flat after 70 ms, which is intended to minimize the evoked response in our data.”

      (4) Analysis transparency:

      (a) In the description of posterior electrode selection, explicitly note that channels were chosen solely on the basis of alpha power, independent of behavioural performance, and that the same electrodes were used for each participant across sessions.

      We have gladly made this clarification to the methods.

      “This was individually determined by rank-ordering 17 of the posterior channels (Pz, P3, P7, O1, Oz, O2, P4, P8, P1, P5, PO7, PO3, POz, PO4, PO8, P6, and P2) and algorithmically choosing the three with the highest power. This ensured that electrode selection was made independent of performance and instead was based upon maximizing alpha signal strength.”

      (b) Describe the phase-alignment step used to center each participant's optimal bin before group averaging as a device for visualization and summary, and clarify that inferential statistics are based on the underlying, non-aligned data as appropriate. This will reassure readers who are cautious about circularity.

      We agree that this should be made more explicit throughout the manuscript and have added statements clarifying this aspect in the Figure 2B caption, the Results, and Method sections.

      “The data have been aligned across participants so that each individual's highest d’ was assigned to bin 8 (omitted from the plot), with the remaining data circularly shifted, and is averaged across -450 ms to stimulus onset. This graph is for visualization purposes only. Error bars represent ± 1 SEM. The pattern shows a clear phasic modulation of d’ across bins.”

      “... requiring us to phase-align the performance data across participants in order to visualize the underlying phasic effects. To this end, we aligned all metrics (d’, c, HR, and FAR) by circularly shifting the data so that the bin with the highest d’ was assigned to bin 8, which was then omitted from further visualizations.”

      “Bin 8 was then omitted from further visualizations. The shifted data were then averaged across all time points from -450 ms to 0 ms, based on significant effects at the group level, and averaged across participants. No statistics were conducted on these shifted variables and instead are for visualization purposes only.”

      (c) Add a short note on the number of permutations and the cluster-forming threshold in the phase-coupling analyses, if not already stated in the Results or captions, to complete the description of your non-parametric testing procedure.

      Thank you, we agree that reiterating this information in the Results section is helpful for the reader to clarify the analysis procedure.

      “After smoothing the resultant vector length over time with a 50 ms moving average, we compared the observed vector lengths to a permuted threshold (95th percentile of 1,000 permutations) at each time point from –700 to 0 ms and performed cluster correction (95th percentile of the permuted cluster size) to account for multiple comparisons.”

      (5) Discussion framing:

      Make one or two small adjustments to your mechanistic phrasing so that the distinctions between measurement and interpretation are fully explicit:

      (a) State that the combination of phase-d′ coupling, counterphased hit and false-alarm rates, response consistency, and phase-dependent classification images is "consistent with" a reduction in effective internal noise and sharper estimated tuning at optimal alpha phase, within the assumptions of your SDT and reverse-correlation framework.

      Thank you for this suggestion. We have changed the language in the discussions to reflect this framing and interpretation of the results.

      “Moreover, our data are consistent with a model in which the variability of internal responses changes systematically across the alpha cycle, as reflected in the inverse relationship between hit rate and false alarm rate.”

      (b) Emphasize that reduced effective internal noise and sharpened sensory tuning are two complementary descriptions of a better match between sensory evidence and decision template rather than fully separable mechanisms.

      Thank you, we have added this language for clarity of our interpretation.

      “Together with decreases in the variance of sensory tuning during the optimal phase, our results suggest that alpha phase impacts sensitivity by shaping trial-to-trial variation in internal noise during perceptual decision making, leading to better matches between sensory evidence and decision templates as opposed to a change in the gain of internal sensory responses.”

      (c) Note that the frontal-occipital phase relationship is consistent with a coordinated, possibly top-down component to the alpha-phase effect, while remaining agnostic about the precise physiological implementation.

      Thank you for raising this additional interpretation. We have added this as a plausible alternative to the single-source account in the Discussion section.

      “Moreover, our results suggest that prior literature reporting phasic effects in the alpha-band range from both frontal and occipital regions may plausibly be reporting the same effect from a single projected dipole source; however, these results are also consistent with two synchronized alpha sources which are anti-phase.”

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Major issues:

      Given that collecting more data may not be doable, the authors should take some actions to test the reliability of their results. For instance, simulations could be run to test the robustness of the results with such a small sample size (Zoefel, 2019). It would also be of interest to include in the report statistics and plots at the individual level, not only the aggregates. It is also important to report which electrodes were used in the analysis for each of the subjects, in the Methods section, it is clearly stated that these electrodes differed between subjects.

      Thank you for these suggestions. To assess the reliability of our results at the single-subject level, we have included a new binomial probability test which is a framework suitable for small sample size experiments with large trail numbers (Schwarzkopf & Huang, 2024). Binomial testing views each individual as an independent replication and considers the probability of having observed the number of significant participants given the total number tested participants, and outputs the probability of having observed the results by chance. We believe this framework adequately addresses the reviewer’s concern of generalizability in addition to being well-suited to the design of our study.

      To assess individual significance, we averaged the resultant vector length and permutations over the analysis window from -450 to 0 ms. If the resultant vector length exceeded the permutation for that participant, then they were considered to be a significant participant. In total, 3 out of 6 participants (participants 1, 4, and 5) showed significant d’ coupling. The binomial probability (equivalent to a p-value) of having observed this outcome as a result of three false positives at the individual-subject level is very small (p = 0.002), which is sufficiently low for psychological studies.

      Below is the text which we have added to the Results and Methods sections.

      “To interrogate the robustness of our findings at the single-subject level, we adopted a test of binomial probability, which is a statistical framework that treats each individual as an independent replication and is ideal for small sample size studies that utilize a large number of trials per observer (Schwarzkopf & Huang, 2024). For our data, we assessed individual significance by averaging the actual and permuted resultant vector lengths across time (-450 to 0ms) and comparing the real vector length to the 95% percentile of the permuted datasets. With this approach, 3 out of 6 participants showed significant d’-phase coupling which corresponds to a binomial probability of p = 0.002, indicating a very low probability that we observed these results by chance alone.”

      “Additionally, we used a binomial probability testing framework that is designed for small sample sizes and treats each participant as an independent replication. As such, it computes the probability of having observed the number of statistically significant outcomes by chance given our sample size (Schwarzkopf & Huang, 2024). To assess significance at the participant level, we averaged the participant’s resultant vector length and permutations from -450 to 0 ms and obtained the 95th percentile of the time-averaged permutations. We then compared the averaged resultant vector lengths to the permutation thresholds for each subject, which revealed 3 out of 6 significant subjects. We then used the MATLAB function myBinomTest.m (Nelson, 2026) to compute the p-value associated with the probability of having observed 3 out of 6 significant subjects by chance (with a false-positive rate of 0.05).”

      To address the reviewer's second request, we now include a supplemental figure which has each individual’s results for the main analysis (see Supplementary figure 3). These graphs, in addition to the methods, now provides the reader with each participant’s given set of analysis electrodes.

      “Each participant had a different combination of electrodes which were used in the analyses; however, the same three channels were used across sessions within a participant (participant 1: POz, PO3, O1; participant 2: P7, PO7, PO4; participant 3: P2, P1, Pz; participant 4: O1, Oz, O2; participant 5: O2, PO8, PO4; participant 6: Oz, O2, O1).”

      As an alternative approach, linear mixed models (LMM) could be used for statistics, as they are more suitable for small sample sizes (Wiley et al., 2019). LMM improve generalization by modelling subject-specific random effects. Although raw circular data is not suitable for LMM, the sine and cosine of the phases could have been used as predictors, for instance. Given that data were collected for 6 different sessions, sessions could be included as a factor in the model to improve statistical power.

      We appreciate the suggestion but feel that LMMs would be a challenge in this case not only because the main predictor variables are circular, but because the main outcome variables are not defined on the single-trial level and require many trials to be computed (e.g., classification images, SDT measures, response consistency). As such, computing these measures within a session may also lead to noisier estimates than we had designed our experiment for. We therefore prefer the more straightforward approach we have taken in the paper, which has now been supplemented by a binomial test of individual-subject level significance.

      Given that the number of subjects is quite small, I believe that individual data should be presented (either in the main text or supplementary materials) also for figures: 2A, B, C and D.

      Thank you, we have included all of these results to the individual graphs in the Supplemental Materials (see Supplementary figure 3).

      In plot 2B (HR and FAR) a p-value = 0.015 appears. However, in the text you write:

      "Indeed, this showed that the difference between the HR and FAR vector angle was significantly clustered around a mean of 180{degree sign} (v = 3.78, p = 0.01), indicating that the phase angle associated with the greatest hits was counterphase to the phase angle associated with the greatest false alarms."

      Which one is correct? Or do they refer to different tests?

      We appreciate you catching this confusing discrepancy. The two values refer to the same test which has a p-value of 0.0145. In the figure, this value was rounded to the thousandths decimal place (i.e., 0.015), whereas in the text it was rounded to the hundredths value (0.01). We now consistently report p-values out to three decimal places throughout the manuscript.

      Did you perform any statistical test for phasic modulation of dprime and criterion? I say that because in Figure 2B, you state that the data shows a "clear phasic modulation of d' across bins", but no statistic is mentioned. On the other hand, in Figure 2D, you state, "We did not & observe any significant phase-dependent relationship between phase and criterion." Is this sentence referring to both 2C and 2D panels or only to 2C?

      Figure 2B and 2D show the phase-behavior relationship across bins after aligning the phase bins to each participant's “best” d’ bin. This bin is omitted from the plots because it is used for alignment, making the analysis circular. Accordingly, these panels were intended purely for visualization and were not used for statistical inference. Additional language has been added to the figure caption highlighting this aspect.

      “The data have been aligned across participants so that each individual's highest d’ was assigned to bin 8 (omitted from the plot), with the remaining data circularly shifted, and is averaged across -450 ms to stimulus onset. This graph is for visualization purposes only.”

      The primary statistical test for phase-behavior coupling was performed using permutation testing of the resultant vector length, which quantifies the magnitude of phase-dependent modulation. These results are shown in Figures 2A (for d′) and 2C (for criterion). In the original manuscript, we reported only the time points that survived cluster-based correction, but did not explicitly report the cluster p-values. We have now added these cluster p-values to the manuscript for completeness.

      “The data revealed significant cluster-corrected coupling between alpha phase and d’ in the prestimulus window from -220 ms until stimulus onset (cluster p = 0.046),...”

      Additionally, we have changed the caption of Figure 2 to be separate for C) and D).

      “(C) No evidence for the coupling of criterion to pre-stimulus alpha-band phase. Graph C reveals the time course of the resultant vector lengths for alpha phase-criterion coupling, which shows no significant phase-dependent relationship between phase and criterion.

      (D) The underlying shifted c across phase bins (shifted to participants’ optimal phase, as in graph B) did not visually demonstrate a phasic modulation pattern.”

      Minor issues:

      In general, the paper is very clear. I found a statement confusing in the Response consistency section:

      "To quantify response consistency, we computed the proportion of trials in which participants provided the same response across the two identical trials. This procedure was done for each channel at each time point (from -450 to 0 ms) and then averaged."

      Which makes no sense, as response consistency is independent of channel and time point. I believe here you refer to the phase, maybe by just changing the order (start with response consistency and then proceed to phase), the paragraph would be clearer.

      We appreciate you catching this mistake. We have clarified the Methods section in the following way:

      “To quantify response consistency, we computed the proportion of trials in which participants provided the same response across the two identical trials. Since the optimal phase changes over time, the set of trials were classified as either both having occurred during the optimal phase (or otherwise) for each time point (from -450 to 0 ms) and channel. The proportion of consistent responses was then averaged across channels and time.”

      Could you include a plot of the power spectrum used for IAF estimation of all the subjects?

      Thank you for the suggestion. In Supplemental Figure 3 we have included the power spectrum that was used to estimate IAF in addition to a topoplot of alpha power (IAF +/- 2 Hz) that has the analysis electrodes labelled.

      Bibliography:

      Wiley RW, Rapp B. Statistical analysis in Small-N Designs: using linear mixed-effects modeling for evaluating intervention effectiveness. Aphasiology. 2019;33(1):1-30. doi: 10.1080/02687038.2018.1454884.

      Zoefel B, Davis MH, Valente G, Riecke L, How to test for phasic modulation of neural and behavioural responses, NeuroImage, Volume 202, 2019,116175, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.neuroimage.2019.116175.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Weaknesses:

      Despite this compelling data regarding the protective role of HSF1 in the febrile response, what remains unexplained and complicates the authors' model is the observation that losing LvHSF1 at 'normal' temperatures of 25 ℃ is not detrimental to survival, even though viral loads increase and nSWD is likely still subject to LvHSF1 regulation. These observations suggest that WSSV infection may have other detrimental effects on the cell not reflected by viral load and that LvHSF1 may play additional roles in protecting the organism from these effects of WSSV infection, such as perhaps, perturbations to protein homeostasis. This is worth discussing, especially in light of the rather complicated roles of hormesis in protection from infection, the role of HSF1 in hormesis responses, and the findings from other groups that the authors discuss.

      We are grateful for your unbiased advice by reviewer. And we have added the description about the role of HSF1 in hormesis responses in discussion in Lines 422-425 in the revised manuscript. Thank you.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Temperature is a critical factor affecting the progression of viral diseases in vertebrates and invertebrates. In the current study, the authors investigate mechanisms by which high temperatures promote anti-viral resistance in shrimp. They show that high temperatures induce HSF1 expression, which in turn upregulates AMPs. The AMPs target viral envelope proteins and inhibit viral infection/replication. The authors confirm this process in drosophila and suggest that there may be a conserved mechanism of high-temperature mediated anti-viral response in arthropods. These findings will enhance our understanding of how high temperature improves resistance to viral infection in animals.

      The conclusions of this paper are mostly well supported by data, but some aspects of data analysis need to be clarified and extended. Further investigation on how WSSV infection is affected by AMP would have strengthened the study.

      We are grateful for your unbiased advice by reviewer. We have provided additional experimental evidence and supplementary instructions in the revised manuscript. Thank you.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      In the manuscript titled "Heat Shock Factor Regulation of Antimicrobial Peptides Expression Suggests a Conserved Defense Mechanism Induced by Febrile Temperature in Arthropods", the authors investigate the role of heat shock factor 1 (HSF1) in regulating antimicrobial peptides (AMPs) in response to viral infections, particularly focusing on febrile temperatures. Using shrimp (Litopenaeus vannamei) and Drosophila S2 cells as models, this study shows that HSF1 induces the expression of AMPs, which in turn inhibit viral replication, offering insights into how febrile temperatures enhance immune responses. The study demonstrates that HSF1 binds to heat shock elements (HSE) in AMPs, suggesting a conserved antiviral defense mechanism in arthropods. The findings are informative for understanding innate immunity against viral infections, particularly in aquaculture. However, the logical flow of the paper can be improved.

      We are grateful for the positive comments and the unbiased advice by reviewer. We have improved the logical flow of the paper and added corresponding instructions in the revised manuscript. Thank you.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Figure 1: The analysis compares Group TW to Group W (not the other way around).

      Thank you very much. To uncover the molecular mechanisms by which high temperature restricts WSSV infection, two shrimp groups, Group TW and Group W, were cultured at 25 °C. Group W comprised shrimp injected with WSSV and maintained at 25 °C continuously. In contrast, Group TW was subjected to a temperature increase to 32 °C at 24 hours post-injection (hpi). Gill samples were collected for analysis 12 hours post-temperature rise (hptr) and subjected to Illumina sequencing (Figure 1A). RNA-seq was used to identify genes responsive to high temperature, particularly those encoding potential transcriptional regulators. Thank you.

      (2) The RNA-seq data in Figure 1 focus only on the TFs. The manuscript would benefit from showing all the RNA-seq data and the differentially expressed genes. In particular, are the AMPs upregulated at the same time point? This should not be the case if LvHSF1 were responsible for the transcription of the AMPs, given the time lag between transcription and translation.

      Thank you for your suggestion. In Author response image 1, our previous study has revealed that classical heat shock proteins (such as HSP21, HSP70, HSP60, HSP83, HSP90, HSP27, HSP10, and Bip) were induced by RNA-seq between Group TW and Group W, suggesting heat shock proteins exert a crucial role in enhancing the resistance of shrimp to WSSV at elevated temperatures (32 ℃) and underscoring the reliability of our transcriptomic findings (Xiao et al., 2024).

      Additionally, we also analyzed the AMPs expression between Group TW and Group W, and the results show that some antimicrobial peptides such as Lysozyme and C-type lectin are upregulated between Group TW and Group W. Notably, we did not detect upregulated expression of SWD between Group TW and Group W. We agree with the reviewer's point of view that there is a time lag between transcription and translation. Supplementary experimental evidences show that the expression level of LvHSF1 is strongly induced by WSSV stimulation, and then the expression level of SWD begins to increase. We have added a description in Lines 136-138 in the revised manuscript.

      Author response image 1.

      The Figure of the heat shock proteins in Group TW and Group W

      Author response image 2.

      Transcriptional expression levels of HSF1 and SWD after WSSV stimulation

      Reference:

      Xiao, B., Wang, Y., He, J., Li, C., 2024. Febrile Temperature Acts through HSP70-Toll4 Signaling to Improve Shrimp Resistance to White Spot Syndrome Virus. J Immunol 213, 1187-1201.

      (3) The data showing the tissue distribution of LvHSF1 and nSWD is a rigorous approach and adds to the manuscript. A similar approach to understanding the time course of expression of AMPs in relationship to LvHSF1 expression levels would strengthen the authors' conclusions that LvHSF1 induction in response to high temperatures and viral infection, in turn, upregulates SWD and other antibacterial genes.

      Thank you for your suggestion. As you good suggestion, we detected the transcriptional expression levels of HSF1 and SWD after WSSV stimulation for 0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 12, 16, 20, and 24 hours. The transcriptional expression level of SWD was set to 1.00 at 0 h, in the early stage of WSSV infection (0-12 h, except 6 h), the expression level of LvHSF1 is strongly induced, and then the expression level of SWD begins to increase. Theses results show that LvHSF1 induction in response to viral infection, in turn, upregulates SWD and other antibacterial genes. Thank you.

      (4) The data (Figures 3 and 4) show that LvHSF1 is necessary to survive WSSV infection at high temperatures but does not affect survival at lower temperatures, even though LvHSF1 limits VP28 levels, and viral load at both temperatures is confusing. Does this suggest that LvHSF1 is not primarily important for protection against the virus but instead, for protection from the heat-induced damage caused by high temperatures, which would not be surprising? The manuscript would benefit if the authors could address this point. How do the authors envision the protection conferred by LvHSF1 only at high temperatures?

      Thank you for your comment. Although no significant difference in shrimp survival rates was observed between LvHSF1-silenced shrimp and GFP-silenced shrimp at low temperature (25 °C), shrimp with silenced LvHSF1 exhibited increased viral loads in hemocytes and gills, suggesting that upregulation of HSF1 expression can protect shrimp from WSSV infection.

      Notably, the tolerance temperature for L. vannamei growth ranges from 7.5 to 42 °C. When infected with WSSV, shrimp use behavioral fever to elevate their body temperature (~32 °C), thereby inhibiting WSSV infection (Rakhshaninejad et al., 2023; Xiao et al., 2024). And this temperature (~32 °C) will not cause heat-induced damage to the shrimp. Our results demonstrate that febrile temperatures induce HSF1, which in turn upregulates antimicrobial peptides (AMPs) that target viral envelope proteins and inhibit viral replication.

      Only at high temperatures, we observed that knockdown of HSF1 did not affect shrimp survival rate (Figure 4A). Thank you again for your valuable feedback.

      Reference:

      Rakhshaninejad, M., Zheng, L., Nauwynck, H., 2023. Shrimp (Penaeus vannamei) survive white spot syndrome virus infection by behavioral fever. Sci Rep 13, 18034.

      Xiao, B., Wang, Y., He, J., Li, C., 2024. Febrile Temperature Acts through HSP70-Toll4 Signaling to Improve Shrimp Resistance to White Spot Syndrome Virus. J Immunol 213, 1187-1201.

      (5) Related to the previous comment, the authors do not clearly distinguish between basal effects of LvHSF1 or nSWD induction and heat-induced effects and the differences related to the requirement of LvHSF1 for protection. Simply increasing LvHSF1 levels can result in increased nSWD. SWD levels increase upon WSSV infection even at 25 ℃, and the knockdown experiments suggest that this could also occur through LvHSF1. It would be useful to explicitly differentiate between basal functions of HSF1 and induced functions.

      Thank you for your suggestion. In previous responses, we have distinguished between basal effects of LvHSF1 or nSWD induction and heat-induced effects.

      As your good suggestion, we injected GST or rHSF1 protein into shrimp, the results showed that recombinant protein HSF1 could significantly induced the expression level of SWD (Supplementary Fig. 5C). Further, after knockdown of SWD, shrimp were injection with rLvHSF1 mixed with WSSV. The results showed that the viral load was significantly lower than the control group 48 hours post WSSV infection (Supplementary Fig. 5D). We have added these results to the Supplementary Figure 5C&5D and added a description in Lines 253-255 and Lines 290-293 in the revised manuscript. Thank you for your constructive comments.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Two temperatures are used in the experiments of shrimp. It seems that HSF1 is also upregulated by WSSV infection at 25 ℃. However, this upregulation seems not to be able to protect the animals. The authors compare the infection at 25 and 32 ℃ but did not discuss the findings.

      Thank you for your comment. Although no significant difference in shrimp survival rates was observed between LvHSF1-silenced shrimp and GFP-silenced shrimp at low temperature (25 °C), shrimp with silenced LvHSF1 exhibited increased viral loads in hemocytes and gills, suggesting that upregulation of HSF1 expression can protect shrimp from WSSV infection. We have added a discussion of this finding in Lines 461-464 in the revised manuscript. Thank you.

      (2) In the abstract the authors say that "These insights provide new avenues for managing viral infections in aquaculture and other settings by leveraging environmental temperature control." However, this point has not been discussed in the main text.

      We appreciated your comments. We have added a discussion about the environmental temperature control in Lines 512-514 in the revised manuscript. Thank you.

      (3) Line 142: "These results suggest that LvHSF1 may play a key role in enhancing shrimp resistance to WSSV at elevated temperatures." Although this type of conclusion has been made in many studies, I think it is impossible to see a "KEY role" based mainly on change in expression.

      Thank you for your suggestion. We have revised this conclusion in the revised manuscript. Thank you.

      (4) Section 2.1 Induction of Heat Shock Factor 1 in Response to WSSV at High Temperature

      Figure 1. Identification of HSF1 as a key factor induced by high temperature.

      The two titles are confusing. Whether the upregulation of HSF1 is a response to high temperature or WSSV infection? I think it is more likely a response to high temperature. Did the authors see the difference in HSF1 expression in shrimp with and without WSSV infection at high temperatures?

      Thank you for your comment. We have modified the title of Section 2.1 in the revised manuscript. As your good suggestion, we have measured the expression of LvHSF1 after WSSV challenge at high temperatures (32 ℃) in revised Figure 2F-2H in Line 122 in the revised manuscript. The results demonstrate that the expression of LvHSF1 is strongly induced by WSSV stimulation at high temperatures (32 ℃) in the revised manuscript. Thank you.

      (5) Figure 2. Upregulation of LvHSF1 in shrimp challenged by WSSV at both low and high temperatures. Results for WSSV challenge at high temperatures are not included in this figure.

      Thank you for your suggestion. As your good suggestion, we have measured the expression of LvHSF1 after Poly (I: C) and WSSV challenge at high temperatures (32 ℃) in revised Figure 2C-2H. The results demonstrate that the expression of LvHSF1 is strongly induced by Poly (I: C) and WSSV stimulation at high temperatures (32 ℃). And we have added a description in Lines 168-179 in revised manuscript. Thank you.

      (6) Section 2.2 Expression Profiles of LvHSF1 in Shrimp Under Varied Temperature Conditions and WSSV Challenge. Did the authors try poly IC and WSSV challenge at 32℃, and compare with the un-challenge group? Why were only low temperature was analyzed?

      Thank you for your suggestion. As your good suggestion, we have measured the expression of LvHSF1 after Poly (I: C) and WSSV challenge at high temperatures (32 ℃) in revised Figure 2C-2H. And we have added a description about the expression of LvHSF1 after Poly (I: C) and WSSV challenge at high temperatures (32 ℃) in Lines 168-179 in revised manuscript. Thank you.

      (7) Figure 2: Please indicate the temperature used in C-E and F-H in the figure legend. Statistical significance: compared with which group? Please provide information in the legend or show it in the bar chart.

      Thank you for your suggestion. We have added the description of temperature used in revised Figures 2C-2E. The expression changes of HSF1 were compared with those of PBS control group at the corresponding time and we modified the comparison method of significance in revised Figures 2C-2E. Thank you.

      (8) Figure 3H: There are two groups (dsGFP+PBS; dsHSF1+PBS) showing with the same symbol (dot line).

      Thank you for your comment. The revised Figure 3H has used different symbols to distinguish the two groups. Thank you.

      (9) Line 205: qPCR

      Thank you for your careful checks. We have corrected this error in the revised manuscript. Thank you.

      (10) Figure 5d and f: Please indicate the sample in each row.

      Thank you for your suggestion. We have marked the samples in each row in the revised Figures 5d&5f.

      (11) Figure 3 and Figure 4: Why different tissues were analyzed in the two experiments? Low temperature: gill and hemocytes. High temperature: gill and muscle? It is better to use the same tissues so that they can be compared. Please indicate the tissue analyzed in D and d.

      Thank you for your suggestion. We have repeated the experiment to detect the copy number of WSSV in hemocyte at high temperature (32 °C) after LvHSF1 knockdown. The results showed that knockdown LvHSF1 showed increased viral loads in shrimp hemocyte (Figure 4C). We have supplemented the tissue information in Figure 4D&4d. Thank you.

      (12) Figure 2A The time for temperature treatment? hours or days?

      Thank you for your comment. Transcriptional expression of LvHSF1 in different tissues of healthy shrimp subjected to low (25 °C) and high (32 °C) temperatures for 12 hours. We have supplemented this information in the legend of Figure 2A in Lines 840-841 in revised manuscript. Thank you.

      (13) Line 249: purified by SDS-PAGE gel?

      Thank you for your comment. We have modified this description in Lines 272-274 in current manuscript. Thank you.

      (14) Line 258 "Next, to verify whether the anti-WSSV function of nSWD was mediated by LvHSF1 at high temperature". I think it is confusing to use "mediated" here. It seems that HSF1 is downstream of nSWD. Actually, HSF1 controls the expression of nSWD and thus regulates the anti-WSSV effect of shrimp at high temperatures.

      We appreciated your comments. We have modified this description in Lines 282-283 in current manuscript. Thank you.

      (15) Line 458 "The most probable anti-WSSV mechanism of nSWD is its direct interaction with WSSV envelope proteins VP24 and VP26, potentially inhibiting viral entry into target cells. I suggest the author analyze the entry of WSSV to see whether nSWD blocks this process.

      Thank you for your comment. In general, the antimicrobial mechanism of action of AMPs is thought to involve direct membrane disruption, especially for enveloped virus (such as WSSV) (Wilson et al., 2013).

      Thanks to the reviewers for their valuable comments. Our manuscript mainly focuses on the febrile temperature-inducible HSF in host antiviral immunity, and the role of HSF1 in regulating antimicrobial effectors (such as SWD). Due to the limitation of the manuscript's length, we will further investigate the functional mechanisms of SWD-specific anti-WSSV in future studies. Thank you.

      Reference:

      Wilson, S.S., Wiens, M.E., Smith, J.G., 2013. Antiviral Mechanisms of Human Defensins. Journal of Molecular Biology 425, 4965-4980.

      (16) Line 435-456 The author discusses the difference between two shrimp species. Did the two studies measure the same immune parameters? I wonder whether the different observation is due to true differences or different methods they used to evaluate the response. If no immune response was promoted in the previous study, what's the possible anti-viral mechanism?

      We appreciated your comments. Firstly, the shrimps in the two experimental groups have different adaptability to temperature. The optimal water temperature for M. japonicus growth ranges from 25 to 32 °C, and the tolerance temperature for L. vannamei growth ranges from 7.5 to 42 °C. Secondly, the experimental environmental factors are different in the two experimental groups. Ammonia is a key stress factor in aquatic environments that usually increases the risk of pathogenic diseases in aquatic animals, however, High temperatures (32°C) have been shown to inhibit the replication of WSSV and reduce mortality in WSSV-infected shrimp. Thirdly, the two studies tested different immune indicators. Ammonia-induced Hsf1 suppressed the production and function of MjVago-L, an arthropod interferon analog. In this study, our findings revealed the molecular mechanism through which the HSF-AMPs axis mediates host resistance to viruses induced by febrile temperature. Taken together, the benefits of HSF1 can be attributed to either the host or the pathogen, depending on the nature and context of the host-virus-environment interaction.

      (17) Line 472 "directly bind to WSSV envelope proteins and inhibit WSSV proliferation"

      I think it is confusing to use "proliferation" here. It seems that the binding of HSF affects the replication process. However, based on the authors' discussion, HSF may likely block viral entry.

      Thank you for your suggestion. We have modified this description in Lines 505-507 in the current manuscript. Thank you.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      In the manuscript titled "Heat Shock Factor Regulation of Antimicrobial Peptides Expression Suggests a Conserved Defense Mechanism Induced by Febrile Temperature in Arthropods", the authors investigate the role of heat shock factor 1 (HSF1) in regulating antimicrobial peptides (AMPs) in response to viral infections, particularly focusing on febrile temperatures. Using shrimp (Litopenaeus vannamei) and Drosophila S2 cells as models, this study shows that HSF1 induces the expression of AMPs, which in turn inhibit viral replication, offering insights into how febrile temperatures enhance immune responses. The study demonstrates that HSF1 binds to heat shock elements (HSE) in AMPs, suggesting a conserved antiviral defense mechanism in arthropods. The findings are informative for understanding innate immunity against viral infections, particularly in aquaculture. However, the logical flow of the paper can be improved. Following are my specific concerns.

      Major comments

      (1) The study design is pretty good, but the logical flow is not. The following should be improved.

      (a) In Figure 1, the reason for selecting HSF1 as the focus of the study is not clearly explained.

      Thank you for your comment. In a previous study, we have revealed that heat shock proteins exerted a significant role in enhancing the resistance of shrimp to WSSV at elevated temperature (32 ℃) (Xiao et al., 2024). GO functional enrichment analysis of DEGs between group TW and group W, indicating that most DEGs were involved in biological processes such as protein refolding, chaperone-mediated protein folding, and heat response. Therefore, special attention has been paid to heat shock factor 1 (HSF1), the master regulator of the heat shock response. We have added the description in Lines 136-138 in the revised manuscript. Thank you.

      Reference:

      Xiao, B., Wang, Y., He, J., Li, C., 2024. Febrile Temperature Acts through HSP70-Toll4 Signaling to Improve Shrimp Resistance to White Spot Syndrome Virus. J Immunol 213, 1187-1201.

      (b) As the authors draw models in Figure 9, the established activation mechanism of HSF1 is via trimerization by the release of HSP90, which binds to misfolded proteins under stress conditions, such as heat shock. Therefore, the increase in the HSF1 mRNA level in Figure 1 is strange. The authors need to clarify this issue by explaining this established activation mechanism of HSF1 and also must provide the basis of upregulation of HSF1 by mRNA increase via citing papers in the Introduction.

      We appreciated your comments. Under non-stress conditions, HSF monomers are retained in the cytoplasm in a complex with HSP90. During the stress response, such as high temperature, HSF dissociates from the complex, trimerizes, and converts into a DNA-binding conformation through regulatory upstream promoter elements known as heat shock elements (HSEs) (Andrasi et al., 2021). Previous studies have demonstrated that the expression of HSF1 was remarkably induced by stress response, such as high temperature (Ren et al., 2025), virus infection (Merkling et al., 2015), and ammonia stress (Wang et al., 2024). Our results also showed that the expression of LvHSF1 was significant induced by WSSV infection and high temperature (Figure 2). Therefore, this is not surprising that the increase in the HSF1 mRNA level in Figure 1.

      In response, we have revised the proposed model to better reflect our experimental findings and the accompanying description. This revision ensures that the schematic is consistent with our data and accurately represents the proposed mechanism. We appreciate your careful review and constructive feedback.

      Reference:

      Andrasi, N., Pettko-Szandtner, A., Szabados, L., 2021. Diversity of plant heat shock factors: regulation, interactions, and functions. J Exp Bot 72, 1558-1575.

      Ren, Q., Li, L., Liu, L., Li, J., Shi, C., Sun, Y., Yao, X., Hou, Z., Xiang, S., 2025. The molecular mechanism of temperature-dependent phase separation of heat shock factor 1. Nature Chemical Biology.

      Merkling, S.H., Overheul, G.J., van Mierlo, J.T., Arends, D., Gilissen, C., van Rij, R.P., 2015. The heat shock response restricts virus infection in Drosophila. Sci Rep 5, 12758.

      Wang, X.X., Zhang, H., Gao, J., Wang, X.W., 2024. Ammonia stress-induced heat shock factor 1 enhances white spot syndrome virus infection by targeting the interferon-like system in shrimp. mBio 15, e0313623.

      (c) For RNA seq analysis in both in Figures 1 and 5, they need to provide changes in conventional HSF1 target chaperones (many HSPs) to validate their RNA seq data.

      Thank you for your suggestion. In Authopr response image 1, our previous study has revealed that classical heat shock proteins (such as HSP21, HSP70, HSP60, HSP83, HSP90, HSP27, HSP10, and Bip) were induced by RNA-seq between Group TW and Group W, suggesting heat shock proteins exert a crucial role in enhancing the resistance of shrimp to WSSV at elevated temperatures (32 ℃) and underscoring the reliability of our transcriptomic findings (Xiao et al., 2024). We have added the description in Lines 136-138 in the revised manuscript.

      In Figure 5, we have supplemented the heat shock proteins downregulated DEGs by transcriptome sequencing of dsGFP +WSSV (32 ℃) vs. dsLvHSF1 +WSSV (32 ℃) in Supplementary table 2. The results showed that the classical heat shock proteins were downregulated by the RNA-seq, underscoring the reliability of our transcriptomic findings. We have added the description in Lines 213-216 in the revised manuscript. Thank you.

      Reference:

      Xiao, B., Wang, Y., He, J., Li, C., 2024. Febrile Temperature Acts through HSP70-Toll4 Signaling to Improve Shrimp Resistance to White Spot Syndrome Virus. J Immunol 213, 1187-1201.

      (d) In Figure 5, they did experiments by focusing on the changes by HSF1 knockdown at 32 ℃. However, the logical flow should be focusing on genes whose expression was increased by 32 ℃ compared with 25 ℃ (in figure 1), among them they need to characterize HSF1 target genes. Here as mentioned above, classical HSP genes must be included in addition to those AMP genes.

      Thank you for your suggestion. As your good suggestion, we have supplemented the heat shock proteins downregulated DEGs by transcriptome sequencing of dsGFP +WSSV (32 ℃) vs. dsLvHSF1 +WSSV (32 ℃) in Supplementary table 2. The results showed that the classical heat shock proteins were downregulated by the RNA-seq, underscoring the reliability of our transcriptomic findings. We have added the description in Lines 213-216 in the revised manuscript. Thank you.

      (e) What is the logical basis of just picking nSWD? It is another example of cherry-picking similar to picking HSF1 in Figure 1.

      We appreciated your comments. To determine how temperature-induced LvHSF1 restricts WSSV infection, RNA-seq was performed to identify target genes regulated by HSF1. By analyzing the differentially expressed genes (DEGs), we screened eight candidate proteins for immunity-effector molecules, including SWD, CrustinⅠ, C-type lectin, Anti-lipopolysaccharide factor (ALF), and Vago. CrustinⅠ has been shown to play an important role in antiviral immunity (Li et al., 2020); C-type lectin (CTL1) can bind to the VP28, VP26, VP24, VP19, and VP14, thereby inhibiting the infection of WSSV (Zhao et al., 2009); Anti-lipopolysaccharide factor (ALF3) performs its anti-WSSV activity by binding to the envelope protein WSSV189 (Methatham et al., 2017); Vago can inhibit WSSV infection by activating the Jak/Stat pathway in shrimp (Gao et al., 2021). However, the detailed regulatory mechanism of SWD against WSSV was unclear, and particular attention was paid to the SWD. We have added the description in Lines 215-220 in the revised manuscript. Thank you for your valuable comments and the logic of the manuscript has been improved.

      Reference:

      Li, S., Lv, X., Yu, Y., Zhang, X., Li, F., 2020. Molecular and Functional Diversity of Crustin-Like Genes in the Shrimp Litopenaeus vannamei, Marine Drugs 18, 361.

      Zhao, Z.Y., Yin, Z.X., Xu, X.P., Weng, S.P., Rao, X.Y., Dai, Z.X., Luo, Y.W., Yang, G., Li, Z.S., Guan, H.J., Li, S.D., Chan, S.M., Yu, X.Q., He, J.G., 2009. A novel C-type lectin from the shrimp Litopenaeus vannamei possesses anti-white spot syndrome virus activity. Journal of Virology 83, 347-356.

      Methatham, T., Boonchuen, P., Jaree, P., Tassanakajon, A., Somboonwiwat, K., 2017. Antiviral action of the antimicrobial peptide ALFPm3 from Penaeus monodon against white spot syndrome virus. Dev Comp Immunol 69, 23-32.

      Gao, J., Zhao, B.R., Zhang, H., You, Y.L., Li, F., Wang, X.W., 2021. Interferon functional analog activates antiviral Jak/Stat signaling through integrin in an arthropod. Cell Rep 36, 109761.

      (f) Likewise, choosing Atta in S2 cells needs logic.

      We appreciated your comments. Our manuscript revealed that febrile temperature inducible HSF1 confers virus resistance by regulating the expression of antimicrobial peptides (AMPs) in L. vannamei. Further, we want to know that whether HSF1 regulation of antimicrobial peptides is a conserved defense mechanism induced by elevated temperature in arthropods, and experiments were performed in an invertebrate model system (Drosophila S2 cells). Previous study showed that DmAMPs (such as Attacin A, Cecropins A, Defensin, Metchnikowin, and Drosomycin) exerted a significant role in the antiviral immunity in Drosophila (Zhu et al., 2013). Our results showed that the expression of Attacin A, Cecropins A and Defensin were remarkably induced by DmHSF, and the expression of Attacin A was the highest induced. Therefore, DmAtta was chosen as a representative to further demonstrate that DmHSF1 exerts its anti-DCV function by regulating DmAMPs. We have added the description in Lines 328-330 and Lines 361-364 in the revised manuscript. Thank you for your valuable comments and the logic of the manuscript has been improved.

      Reference:

      Zhu, F., Ding, H., Zhu, B., 2013. Transcriptional profiling of Drosophila S2 cells in early response to Drosophila C virus. Virol J 10, 210.

      (2) From Figure 6I to 6K, the authors aimed to verify whether the anti-WSSV function of nSWD was mediated by LvHSF1 at high temperatures. However, what they showed was just showing that nSWD plays anti-WSSV function downstream of HSF1. The authors should show additional data for dsControl+rnSWD.

      Thank you for your suggestion. As your suggestion, after knockdown of SWD, shrimp were injection with rLvHSF1 mixed with WSSV. The results showed that the viral load was significantly lower than the control group 48 hours post WSSV infection (Supplementary Fig. 5D). We have added these results to the Supplementary Figure 5C&5D and added a description in Lines 290-293 in the revised manuscript. Thank you for your constructive comments.

      (3) For the physical interaction between nSWD and WSSV, it will be great if the authors perform Alphafold3 prediction analysis (Abramson et al PMID: 38718835).

      Thank you for your suggestion. As you suggestion, we performed Alphafold3 prediction analysis on SWD and WSSV (VP24 and VP26). The predicted template modeling (pTM) score measures the accuracy of the entire structure. A pTM score above 0.5 means the overall predicted fold for the complex might be similar to the true structure. The Alphafold3 prediction results show that there is a possible interaction between SWD and WSSV. Notably, our manuscript demonstrated that rSWD could interact with VP24 and VP26 by pulldown assays and confocal analysis.

      Author response image 3.

      Alphafold3 prediction analysis of SWD&VP24 as follow (pTM = 0.64)

      Author response image 4.

      Alphafold3 prediction analysis of SWD&VP26 as follow (pTM = 0.53)

      Minor comments

      (1) In the Abstract and many other places, the authors need to specifically write "Drosophila S2 cells" instead of "Drosophila" because conventionally Drosophila implies fruit fly as an organism. We don't say cultured human cells as "human" or "Homo sapiens" in papers.

      Thank you for your suggestion. We have modified the description of Drosophila in the revised manuscript. Thank you.

      (2) Figure numbers can be reduced for better readability. I would combine Figures 1 and 2, and Figures 3 and 4. If the combined figures are too crowded, some can go to into supplementary figures.

      Thank you for your suggestion. We have moved the Poly (I: C) data to Supplementary Figure 2 in the revised manuscript. However, we have added some experimental data to Figures 1, 2, 3, and 4. Therefore, we did not combine Figure 1 and Figure 2, and Figures 3 and 4. Thank you.

      (3) One of the best-understood roles of HSF1 in physiology other than heat shock response is longevity, in particular with C. elegans. The authors need to mention this in the Discussion by citing the following recent review paper (Lee PMID: 36380728).

      Thank you for your suggestion. We have supplemented the description of HSF1 regulating longevity and aging of organisms and cited the above reference in the revised manuscript (Lee and Lee, 2022). Thank you.

      Reference:

      Lee, H., Lee, S.V., 2022. Recent Progress in Regulation of Aging by Insulin/IGF-1 Signaling in Caenorhabditis elegans. Mol Cells 45, 763-770.

      (4) Please make your own label for small letter panels or transfer small letter panels to supplementary figures.

      Thank you for your suggestion. We have adjusted the relevant letter labels. The uppercase letters represent the main image of the Figure, and the small letter panels are the corresponding supplementary instructions in the revised manuscript. Thank you.

      (5) In the introduction part, I recommend changing the references for HSFs and HSR with recent ones.

      Thank you for your suggestion. We have added the latest references for HSFs and HSR in the Introduction part of the revised manuscript. Thank you.

      (6) In Figure 1, it is not intuitive to understand the name groups W and TW.

      We appreciated your comments. We have added the description of Group W and Group TW in revised Figure 1. Group W comprised shrimp injected with WSSV and maintained at 25 °C continuously. In contrast, Group TW was subjected to a temperature increase to 32 °C at 24 hours post-injection (hpi). Gill samples were collected for analysis 12 hours post-temperature rise (hptr) and subjected to Illumina sequencing. Thank you.

      (7) Please add some kinds of sequence comparisons of SWD and nSWD for readers to understand the homology.

      We appreciated your comments. We have added the multiple sequence alignment of SWD proteins in shrimp species in revised Supplementary Figure 3. Highly conserved amino acid residues and cysteine and residues are highlighted in red, indicating that LvSWD is a conserved antimicrobial peptide of the Crustin family. Thank you.

      (8) Naming nSWD with "newly identified" is strange as it will not be new anymore as time goes by. Please change the name.

      Thank you for your suggestion. We have modified the name of nSWD to SWD in the revised manuscript. Thank you.

      (9) Please write the full name for Lv (Litopenaeus vannamei), Dm (Drosophila melanogaster), ds (double-stranded) before using LvHSF1, DmHSF1, and dsLvHSF1.

      Thank you for your comments. We have added the full name of LvHSF1, DmHSF1, and dsLvHSF1 in the revised manuscript. Thank you.

      (10) In Figure 2, it will be better to transfer poly I:C data to supplementary figures.

      Thank you for your comments. We have moved the Poly (I: C) data to Supplementary Figure 2 in the revised manuscript. Thank you.

      (11) The label for pGL3-nSWD-M12 is confusing. M1 and M2 are OK. Please change M12 with M1/2 or another one.

      Thank you for your suggestion. We have changed pGL3-nSWD-M12 with pGL3-nSWD-M1/2 in the revised manuscript. Thank you.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      eLife Assessment

      This article presents useful findings on how the timing of cooling affects the timing of autumn bud set in European beech saplings. The study leverages extensive experimental data and provides an interesting conceptual framework for the various ways in which warming can affect but set timing. The statistical analysis is compelling, but indicates some factors that may temper the authors' claims, while the designs of experiments offer incomplete support for the current claims as they rely on one population under extreme conditions for only one year each while a confounding effect (time in a chamber) sometimes lacks a control.

      We thank the editor and reviewers for their consideration of our revised manuscript and for their constructive suggestions. In response to the editor’s guidance, we have ensured that: 1) the experimental design is clearly presented as physiological forcing, 2) the Solstice-as-Phenology-Switch concept is explicitly defined, limited, and framed as inferred, 3) conclusions are strictly aligned with the scope of the evidence, and limitations are acknowledged transparently.

      We hope these revisions fully address the remaining concerns and clarify both the conceptual framework and the appropriate scope of inference.

      Public Review:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      The authors identified the summer solstice (June 21) as a phenological "switch point", but the flexibility of this switch point remains poorly understood. A more precise explanation of what "flexibility" means in this context is needed, along with a description of the specific experimental results that would demonstrate this flexibility.

      We agree that the concept of “flexibility” required clearer definition and a more explicit link to the experimental results. In the Introduction, we now explicitly define flexibility as the capacity for the effective timing of the phenological switch to shift earlier or later depending on developmental progression, rather than occurring at a fixed calendar date. This switch occurs at the compensatory point between the antagonistic influences of early-season development [ESD effect] and late-season temperature [LST effect](L92-98). We have extended and clarified our explanation of the summer solstice’s role in this framework (L69-90). We propose that the solstice acts as an environmental switch that initiates the LST effect, as declining daylengths signal trees to become responsive to late-season cooling (L92-94). The compensatory point then occurs where the advancing ESD effect is balanced by the delaying LST effect. This point should therefore not be fixed to a calendar date but instead vary with developmental progression each year (L75-95).

      In the Discussion, we clarify that flexibility is demonstrated experimentally by the observation that the magnitude of July cooling effects (LST effect) on autumn phenology depend on prior developmental rate (ESD effect) [3.4 times greater delay in late-leafing trees], indicating that the position of the compensatory point is development-dependent rather than fixed to June 21 (L398-410). We have made consistent edits throughout the Discussion, in particular in the ‘Support for the Solstice-as-Phenology-Switch Hypothesis’ subsection (L514-530).

      The experiment did not directly measure the specific date of the phenological switch point. Instead, it was inferred by comparing temperature effects before and after the solstice. The manuscript should clearly state that this switch point remains an inferred conceptual node rather than a directly measured variable.

      We fully agree and have clarified this in the revised manuscript. In the Discussion, we now clearly state that the compensatory point is a conceptual node inferred from responses to cooling before the solstice (June), directly after it (July), or later in the growing season (August) rather than a directly observed phenological event (L352-358 & L405-406).

      In Experiment 1, the effect of bud type (terminal vs. lateral) was inconsistent across the overall model and the different leafing groups. The authors should provide a more thorough discussion of potential reasons for this inconsistency.

      This inconsistency reflects biological complexity. In the Discussion, we now expand our interpretation to note that terminal and lateral buds may differ in developmental status, resource allocation and hormonal context. We emphasize that bud-type effects are therefore expected to be context-dependent and to interact with wholeplant developmental state, which plausibly explains why effects differ across leafing groups and models (L390-396).

      In addition, the statistical model for Experiment 1 indicates that the measured variables (summer cooling and leaf emergence date) explain only 23.4% of the variation in bud formation timing. This leaves over 76% of the variation unexplained, suggesting that other important factors are involved. The discussion should address this limitation in greater depth, moving beyond a focus on the measured variables.

      We now discuss the explained and unexplained variance in more detail. We also make it clear that our experiment was designed to test specific mechanistic pathways rather than to fully explain all phenological variability or maximise predictive power L417-419).

      In the Discussion, we acknowledge that a substantial fraction of variation remains unexplained (L419-421). We discuss the possibility of other physiological mechanisms, such as photosynthetic assimilation, contributing to the unexplained variation (L421-427). However, large inter-individual variability is commonplace in autumn phenology. A low intra-class correlation coefficient (ICC = 0.26; see L276-280 for methods) suggests much of the remaining variation is attributable to individual-level differences rather than missing explanatory variables (L429-431). In line with the literature, we suggest that genetic and epigenetic differences likely contributed significantly to inter-individual variation, even within a single provenance population (L431-434). In this context of high individual variability, leaf-out timing (ESD effect) and summer cooling treatment (LST effect) together explaining 23.4% of variation in bud set timing is biologically meaningful and demonstrates the mechanistic importance of these processes (L438-441). For completeness, we also briefly discuss alternate sources of within-treatment variability (L434-437).

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      I think the experiments are interesting, but I found the exact methods of them somewhat extreme compared to how the authors present them.

      We appreciate this concern and have substantially revised the manuscript to clarify the experimental logic. In the Introduction, we now state explicitly that the study uses temperature regimes that were designed as strong physiological forcing treatments, intended to deeply constrain development and isolate mechanisms rather than to simulate natural or future climatic conditions (L113-115).

      In the Methods, we have enhanced our description of the non-linear effects of temperatures below 10°C on physiological processes (L154-158).

      At the start of the Discussion, we have added a dedicated paragraph clarifying the scope of inference: the experiment tests causality and constraint (i.e. whether specific physiological processes can drive phenological shifts), not quantitative responses under realistic climate scenarios (L346-363). Throughout the Discussion, we have revised language that could be read as scenario-based interpretation, replacing it with mechanistic phrasing.

      Further, given that much of the experiment happened outside, I am not sure how much we can generalize from one year for each experiment, especially when conducted on one population of one species.

      Given the large individual variation expected in phenological experiments, we used single experimental populations of single provenance beech saplings to minimise uncontrolled for variation arising from genetic differences (L358-360). This allowed us to elucidate mechanisms despite noisy biological heterogeneity associated with phenology.

      In the last round of revision, we toned down statements of generalisation. In the Discussion, we now go further to clarify what mechanistic understanding can be gleamed directly from our findings and then cautiously make suggestions how these mechanisms may play out in natural systems. We repeatedly state the intention of the study as mechanistic inference rather than predictive power, e.g. “However, extrapolations to more complex natural ecosystems should be made with caution as our experimental design prioritised mechanistic inference over generalisability and predictive power.” (L417-419). Alongside our previous calls for tests on other species, we now additionally call for tests on other provenances of beech (L511-512).

      I was also very concerned by the revisions.

      If this concern stems from the confusion regarding line-numbers and the two submitted versions of the manuscript (with tracked changes and without tracked changes; as required by eLife), then we hope that situation is now clarified. Otherwise, the authors do not understand why our previous revisions would be perceived as being concerning. Regardless, we have made every attempt to address the remaining comments comprehensively.

      Further, I am at a loss about their hypothesis, when they write in their letter: "Importantly, the Solstice-asPhenology-Switch hypothesis does not assume that the reversal is fixed to June 21." Why on earth reference the solstice if the authors do not mean to exactly reference the solstice?

      We appreciate this important conceptual point. The Solstice-as-Phenology-Switch hypothesis is central to our conceptual model and therefore requires clear explanation. In concert with our changes in response to Reviewer 1’s comment regarding flexibility, we have substantially revised and improved our description of this hypothesis (L69-108).

      Whilst the summer solstice is fixed to a calendar date (June 21), the timing of when trees change their autumn phenological responses to temperature is not (L88-90 & L515-517). This occurs when the compensatory point of two antagonistic effects is crossed. Higher early-season development rates (which are driven by temperature) have an advancing (negative) effect on autumn phenology, which we now refer to as the ESD effect (L71-78). Warmer late-season temperatures have a delaying (positive) effect because trees become phenologically susceptible to cooling, i.e. overwintering responses are induced in response to cooling, which we now refer to as the LST effect (L78-82). The point in time when these two effects balance each other out, i.e. the net effect = 0, is the compensatory point (L95-97 & L523-525). The reason this point occurs after the solstice, is because the LST effect only becomes active when days begin to shorten (L92-94 & L522-523). The solstice acts as an environmental switch, initiating trees’ susceptibility to cooling. Therefore, the solstice is referenced in the hypothesis because it forms a daylength barrier. In this framework, the compensatory point cannot occur earlier than the solstice because day lengths are still increasing (L517-519).

      In the Introduction and Discussion, we clarify that the solstice is referenced as a biologically meaningful photoperiodic cue, not as a fixed threshold date. We now emphasise that the hypothesis concerns a seasonal reversal in responses to temperature structured around photoperiod, whose effective timing depends on developmental state, rather than a reversal occurring precisely on June 21. To avoid confusion, we have reworded phrases such as “summer solstice effect reversal” to “reversal of phenological responses to temperature after the summer solstice” (L371). In accordance, we have also changed the title to “Developmental constraints mediate the reversal of temperature effects on the autumn phenology of European beech after the summer solstice”.

      The following comments stem from the first round of review. We have previously revised the manuscript in accordance with these comments. For most of these points we do not see further cause for changes except for any overlap with comments above. We therefore predominantly copy our previous responses in quotes for clarity, the exception being the comment regarding the framing of our results in relation to natural systems.

      The comments below relate to my original review with many of them still applying.

      Methods: As I read the Results I was surprised the authors did not give more info on the methods here. For example, they refer to the 'effect of July cooling' but never say what the cooling was. Once I read the methods I feared they were burying this as the methods feel quite extreme given the framing of the paper.

      “We understand the concern regarding the structure of the manuscript and note that the methods section was moved to the end of the paper in accordance with eLife’s recommended formatting. We have now moved the methods section before the results to ensure that readers are familiar with the treatments before encountering the outcomes.

      Regarding presentation, treatment details are now described in both the Methods and the relevant figure legends. Given this structure, we have chosen not to restate the full treatment conditions in the main Results text to avoid repetition.”

      The paper is framed as explaining observational results of natural systems, but the treatments are not natural for any system in Europe of which I have worked in. For example a low of 2 deg C at night and 7 deg C during the day through end of May and then 7/13 deg C in July is extreme. I think these methods need to be clearly laid out for the reader so they can judge what to make of the experiment before they see the results.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s concern regarding the use of relatively extreme temperature treatments and the need to ensure that our conclusions are consistent with the motivation for using them. The manuscript was also revised in this regard in the previous round, and we copy the relevant responses at the bottom of this response. Despite this, we agree that further explanation of how our experimental treatments suited the aims of our study was still required.

      The aim of these treatments was not to reproduce typical ambient conditions, but to act as a mechanistic probe. Such mechanisms are not readily identifiable from observations or mild manipulations, because the expected effects are small relative to natural variability; stronger perturbations are therefore required to generate a diagnostic contrast. By strongly constraining development in the early-season, and by providing a robust cooling signal in the late-season, we sought to reveal the causal structure underlying the observed solstice-related reversal in temperature effects on autumn phenology.

      Temperatures below 10°C intensively slow down cell division and mitotic rates, these rates then rapidly and non-linearly approach 0 as temperatures drop towards 0°C (Körner, 2021). As reflected in L152-158 of the revised manuscript, we selected a spring cooling regime of 2–7 °C to strongly slow developmental processes while maintaining a clear thermal safety margin that eliminates the risk of frost damage. Although a milder cooling regime (e.g. 5–10 °C) would be less extreme, it would also be expected to produce only a comparatively small reduction in developmental rates, thereby substantially reducing our ability to generate distinct early- and late-developing individuals and to detect carry-over effects on autumn phenology. Applying strong cooling therefore increases signal-to-noise and allows us to detect the underlying mechanism, which would not be possible with temperature treatments that represent average contemporary climatic variation.

      The use of conditions out with the norm is a standard practice to elucidate mechanisms in ecology, where organisms are often pushed to their physiological limits or transplanted into environments fundamentally different to those which they are adapted (Somero, 2010; Berend et al., 2019). Experiments targeting autumn phenology have utilised a broad range of environmental conditions from moderate to extreme manipulations (Tanino et al., 2010). For example, to test the controls of growth cessation and dormancy induction in Prunus species, one study applied a range of treatments including constant 9°C temperature and 24 hour photoperiod between April and July (Heide, 2008).

      Our experimental design aimed to reduce rates of development, cell division and maturation. In the Methods, we describe this aim and clearly state that the experimental design was not intended to mimic natural climatic variation (L154-156 & L181-186). Importantly, our conclusions are framed at the level of direction, timing, and interaction of effects, rather than the magnitude expected under contemporary or future field conditions (L360-363).

      This framing intends to reflect the primary inference of this study, which concerns when and why temperature effects reverse around the solstice, and how this timing depends on developmental state and diel temperature exposure, rather than making quantitative predictions for present-day or future climates. This aligns our conclusions with the experimental design. We have further revised the Discussion to explain these aims and conclusions more clearly, including the addition of a subsection at the beginning titled “Experimental forcing and scope of inference” (L346-363). We have also set up this expectation in the Introduction (L113-115).

      Additionally, we have improved the Discussion in a number of related aspects.

      We explicitly separate mechanistic conclusions and any relation to natural systems, remaining cautious to not overgeneralise or overstate our findings (L417-419).

      We now include a dedicated paragraph explaining that, although these specific conditions are not likely to be found in beech’s range, analogous developmental constraints can arise during cold springs, late cold spells following budburst, or at high-elevation and continental sites where temperatures remain low despite increasing photoperiod (L540-545, L583-588). We further explain that because developmental progression integrates temperature cumulatively over time, even short episodes of strong cooling can exert lasting carry-over effects on seasonal timing, thereby linking the forced experimental responses to processes relevant under natural, fluctuating conditions (L545-550).

      We explicitly state that the decoupling of day and night temperatures was not intended to represent realistic meteorological states (L458-460). We explain that this design was used diagnostically to isolate inherently diel physiological processes (e.g. nocturnal growth, cell division and expansion versus daytime carbon assimilation), and that the observed responses demonstrate the importance of diel timing of temperature exposure rather than the realism of the imposed cycles (L460-468).

      Previous response:

      We recognise that our temperature treatments were severe and do not mimic real world scenarios. They were deliberately designed to create large contrasts in developmental rates, thereby maximising our ability to detect the mechanisms underpinning the solstice switch. For example, the severe cooling between 4 April and 24 May was specifically designed to slow spring development as much as possible without damaging the plants. We have added text in the Methods to clarify this aim.

      I also think the control is confounded with growth chamber experience in Experiment 1. That is, the control plants never experience any time in a chamber, but all the treatments include significant time in a chamber. The authors mention how detrimental chamber time can be to saplings (indeed, they mention an aphid problem in experiment 2) so I think they need to be more upfront about this. The study is still very valuable, but -- again -- we may need to be more cautious in how much we infer from the results.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s concern about the potential confounding effect of chamber exposure in experiment 1. We have now discussed this limitation more explicitly, adding further explanation to the Methods and Discussion.

      Note that chamber-related problems (e.g. aphid infestations) primarily occurred under warm chamber conditions, whereas our experiment 1 cooling treatments maintained low temperatures that suppressed such issues. This means that an equivalent “warm chamber control” could have been associated with its own artefacts, as trees kept under warm chamber conditions would have been exposed to additional stressors that were not present under natural growing conditions. To address this point, we included a chamber control in experiment 2. While aphid abundance was indeed higher in the warm chamber controls, chamber exposure itself had no detectable effect on autumn phenology. This suggests that the main findings of experiment 1 are unlikely to be artefacts of chamber conditions.

      Nevertheless, we agree that chamber exposure remains a potential limitation of experiment 1, which requires clear acknowledgement. We now state this more explicitly in the manuscript while also emphasising that our results are supported by experiment 2 and by converging lines of external evidence.

      Also, I suggest the authors add a figure to explain their experiments as they are very hard to follow. Perhaps this could be added to Figure 1?

      We have now added figures to the methods section to depict the experimental timelines and settings more clearly (Figs. 2 and 3).

      Finally, given how much the authors extrapolate to carbon and forests, I would have liked to see some metrics related to carbon assimilation, versus just information on timing.

      We agree that carbon assimilation is an important component of forest carbon dynamics. However, the primary aim of this study was to identify how developmental state and diel cycles mediate temperature effects on autumn phenology, rather than to quantify carbon assimilation per se. Assessing photosynthetic controls on autumn phenology would require a substantially different experimental design and is therefore beyond the scope of the present study.

      That said, we were able to include measurements of photosynthetic assimilation during pre-solstice cooling (now presented as Fig. S12 for all treatments). These data show that cooling strongly reduced assimilation across all treatments, despite their markedly different phenological outcomes. This supports our interpretation that variation in assimilation alone cannot explain the observed phenological responses, consistent with previous manipulative and observational studies reporting a weak role of late-season assimilation in controlling autumn phenology.

      Fagus sylvatica: Fagus sylvatica is an extremely important tree to European forests, but it also has outlier responses to photoperiod and other cues (and leafs out very late) so using just this species to then state 'our results likely are generalisable across temperate tree species' seems questionable at best.

      We agree that Fagus sylvatica has a stronger photoperiod dependence than many other European tree species. As we note in our response to Reviewer 1, our findings align with previous research across temperate northern forests. Within our framework, interspecific variation in leaf-out timing would not alter the overall response pattern, though it could shift the specific timing of effect reversals. For example, earlier-leafing species may approach completion of development sooner and thus show sensitivity to late-season cooling earlier than F. sylvatica. Nevertheless, we acknowledge the importance of not overstating generality. We have therefore revised the manuscript to phrase conclusions more cautiously and highlight the need for further research across species.

      And the referenced response to Reviewer one:

      We agree that extrapolation from our experiments on Fagus sylvatica to other species and natural forests requires caution. However, it is precisely the controlled nature of our design that allowed us to isolate the precise mechanisms that appear to underpin the solstice switch, highlighting the role of diel and seasonal temperature variation. In natural systems, additional variables such as competition, precipitation, and soil heterogeneity can strongly influence phenology, but they also make it difficult to disentangle causal mechanisms. By minimising these confounding factors, our experiment provided a clear test of how temperature before and after the solstice regulates growth cessation.

      To acknowledge the limitation, we have toned down statements about generalisation (e.g. “likely generalisable” to “other temperate tree species may display similarities”) and explicitly call for follow-up studies across species and forest contexts. At the same time, we highlight that our findings align with independent evidence from manipulative experiments, satellite observations, flux measurements, and groundbased phenology, which suggests the mechanisms we report may extend beyond the specific populations studied here.”

      As described in responses above, we have further clarified what can be directly concluded from our study, avoiding overgeneralisation.

      Measuring end of season (EOS): It's well known that different parts of plants shut down at different times and each metric of end of season -- budset, end of radial expansion, leaf coloring etc. -- relate to different things. Thus I was surprised that the authors ignore all this complexity and seem to equate leaf coloring with budset (which can happen MONTHS before leaf coloring often) and with other metrics. The paper needs a much better connection to the physiology of end of season and a better explanation for the focus on budset. Relatedly, I was surprised the authors cite almost none of the literature on budset, which generally suggests is it is heavily controlled by photoperiod and population-level differences in photoperiod cues, meaning results may different with a different population of plants. 

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out that our discussion of the responses of different EOS metrics needs more clarity. We agree with much of this perspective, and we have added an additional analysis of leaf chlorophyll content data to use leaf discolouration as an alternative EOS marker. On this we would like to make two important points:

      Firstly, we agree that bud set often occurs before leaf discolouration, although this can depend on which definition of leaf discolouration is used. In experiment 1, budset occurred on average on day-of-year (DOY) 262 and leaf senescence (50% loss of leaf chlorophyll) occurred on DOY 320. However, we do not necessarily agree that this excludes the combined discussion of bud set and leaf senescence timing. Whilst environmental drivers can affect parts of plants differently, often responses from different end-of-season indicators (e.g. bud set and loss of leaf chlorophyll) are similar, even if only directionally. Figure S11 shows how, across both experiments, treatment effects were tightly conserved (R<sup>2</sup> = 0.49) amongst the two phenometrics. In accordance with these revisions, we have updated the manuscript title to “Developmental constraints mediate the summer solstice reversal of climate effects on the autumn phenology of European beech”.

      Secondly, shifts in bud set timing remain the primary focus of the manuscript as these shifts are of direct physiological relevance to plant development and dormancy induction, whereas leaf discolouration may simply follow bud set as a symptom of developmental completion. This is supported by our results, which show stronger responses of bud set than leaf senescence (Figs. 4 & 5 vs. Figs. S9 & S10).

      Following the reviewer’s suggestion, we have included more references on the topic of bud set and its environmental controls. The reviewer rightly stresses that photoperiod is considered the most important factor. Photoperiod is therefore key in our conceptual model. However, the responses we observed in F. sylvatica cannot be explained by photoperiod alone. For example, in experiment 1, July cooling delayed the autumn phenology of late-leafing trees but had negligible impact on early-leafing trees, even though both experienced the exact same photoperiod. Moreover, in experiment 2, day, night and full-day cooling showed substantial variations in their effects despite equal photoperiod across the climate regimes. This is why we suggest that the annual progression of photoperiod modulates the responses to temperature variations instead of eliciting complete control.

      Following the addition of an analysis of leaf senescence data, we also revised the terminology in places (including the title) from “primary growth cessation/bud set” to the broader term “autumn phenology.” This term is intended to encompass two distinct but related physiological processes—bud set and leaf senescence—both of which are commonly used as markers of autumn phenology and the end of the growing season.

      Somewhat minor comments:

      (1) How can a bud type -- which is apical or lateral -- be a random effect? The model needs to try to estimate a variance for each random effect so doing this for n=2 is quite odd to me. I think the authors should also report the results with bud type as fixed, or report the bud types separately.

      We have revised the analysis to include bud type as a fixed effect. There are only very minor numerical adjustments (e.g. rounding to 4.8 days instead of 4.9) and inferences are not altered. We also report the bud type effects for experiment 1 and experiment 2.

      (2) I didn't fully see how the authors results support the Solstice as Switch hypothesis, since what timing mattered seemed to depend on the timing of treatment and was not clearly related to solstice. Could it be that these results suggest the Solstice as Switch hypothesis is actually not well supported (e.g., line 135) and instead suggest that the pattern of climate in the summer months affects end of season timing?

      Our responses to the main comments in this new round of revision have comprehensively covered this topic.

      References

      Berend K, Haynes K, MacKenzie CM. 2019. Common garden experiments as a dynamic tool for ecological studies of alpine plants and communities in northeastern North America. Rhodora 121: 174.

      Heide OM. 2008. Interaction of photoperiod and temperature in the control of growth and dormancy of Prunus species. Scientia Horticulturae 115: 309–314.

      Körner C. 2021. Alpine Plant Life: Functional Plant Ecology of High Mountain Ecosystems. Cham: Springer International Publishing.

      Somero GN. 2010. The physiology of climate change: how potentials for acclimatization and genetic adaptation will determine ‘winners’ and ‘losers’. Journal of Experimental Biology 213: 912–920.

      Tanino KK, Kalcsits L, Silim S, Kendall E, Gray GR. 2010. Temperature-driven plasticity in growth cessation and dormancy development in deciduous woody plants: a working hypothesis suggesting how molecular and cellular function is affected by temperature during dormancy induction. Plant Molecular Biology 73: 49–65.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      eLife Assessment

      This valuable study combined careful computational modeling, a large patient sample, and replication in an independent general population sample to provide a computational account of a difference in risk-taking between people who have attempted suicide and those who have not. It is proposed that this difference reflects a general change in the approach to risky (high-reward) options and a lower emotional response to certain rewards. Evidence for the specificity of the effect to suicide, however, is incomplete, which would require additional analyses.

      We thank the editors and reviewers for this important assessment. Based on clinical interviews, we included patients with and without suicidality (S<sup>+</sup> and S<sup>-</sup> groups). However, in line with suicidal-related literature (e.g., Tsypes et al., 2024), two groups also differed substantially in the severity of symptoms (see Table 1). To address the request for evidence on specificity to suicidality beyond general symptom severity, we performed separate linear regressions to explain in gambling behaviour, value-insensitive approach parameter (β<sub>gain</sub>), and mood sensitivity to certain rewards (β<sub>CR</sub>) with group as a predictor (1 for S<sup>+</sup> group and 0 for S<sup>-</sup> group) and scores for anxiety and depression as covariates. Results remained significant after controlling anxiety and depression (ps < 0.027; Table S8). Given high correlations among anxiety and depression questionnaires (rs > 0.753, ps < 0.001), we performed Principal Components Analysis (PCA) on the clinical questionnaire to extract the orthogonal components, where each component explained 86.95%, 7.09%, 3.27%, and 2.68% variance, respectively. We then performed linear regressions using these components as covariates to control for anxiety and depression. Our main results remained significant (ps < 0.027; Table S9). We believe that these analyses provide evidence that the main effects on gambling and on mood were specific to suicide.

      Moreover, as Reviewer 3 pointed out, these “absence of evidence” cannot provide insights of “evidence of absence”. Although we median-split patients by the scores of general symptoms (e.g., depression and anxiety-related questionnaires) and verified no significant differences in these severities (Figure S11), we additionally conducted Bayesian statistics in gambling behavior, value-insensitive approach parameter, and mood sensitivity to certain rewards. BF<sub>01</sub> is a Bayes factor comparing the null model (M<sub>0</sub>) to the alternative model (M<sub>1</sub>), where M<sub>0</sub> assumes no group difference. BF<sub>01</sub> > 1 indicates that evidence favors M<sub>0</sub>. As can be seen in Table S7, most results supported null hypothesis, suggesting that general symptoms of anxiety and depression overall did not influence our main results. Overall, we believe that these analyses provide compelling evidence for the specificity of the effect to suicide, above and beyond depression and anxiety.

      Beyond these specific findings, this work highlights the broader utility of computational modelling and mood to better understand behavioral effect, showing how to use both mood and choice data to better comprehend a psychiatric issue. 

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors use a gambling task with momentary mood ratings from Rutledge et al. and compare computational models of choice and mood to identify markers of decisional and affective impairments underlying risk-prone behavior in adolescents with suicidal thoughts and behaviors (STB). The results show that adolescents with STB show enhanced gambling behavior (choosing the gamble rather than the sure amount), and this is driven by a bias towards the largest possible win rather than insensitivity to possible losses. Moreover, this group shows a diminished effect of receiving a certain reward (in the non-gambling trials) on mood. The results were replicated in an undifferentiated online sample where participants were divided into groups with or without STB based on their self-report of suicidal ideation on one question in the Beck Depression Inventory self-report instrument. The authors suggest, therefore, that adolescents with decreased sensitivity to certain rewards may need to be monitored more closely for STB due to their increased propensity to take risky decisions aimed at (expected) gains (such as relief from an unbearable situation through suicide), regardless of the potential losses.

      Strengths:

      (1) The study uses a previously validated task design and replicates previously found results through well-explained model-free and model-based analyses.

      (2) Sampling choice is optimal, with adolescents at high risk; an ideal cohort to target early preventative diagnoses and treatments for suicide.

      (3) Replication of the results in an online cohort increases confidence in the findings.

      (4) The models considered for comparison are thorough and well-motivated. The chosen models allow for teasing apart which decision and mood sensitivity parameters relate to risky decision-making across groups based on their hypotheses.

      (5) Novel finding of mood (in)sensitivity to non-risky rewards and its relationship with risk behavior in STB.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The sample size of 25 for the S- group was justified based on previous studies (lines 181-183); however, all three papers cited mention that their sample was low powered as a study limitation.

      We thank the Reviewer for rising this concern. We agree that the sample size for S<sup>-</sup> group (n=25) is modest, and the prior studies we cited also acknowledged limited power. We wanted to point out that we obtained a comparable sample size to a prior study. In the revision, we therefore updated the section to justify this sample size in which we acknowledge the limited power of our study in the limitation section. Please see our clarification below:

      Page 32:

      “Third, despite replicating our main results in an independent dataset (n=747), the modest S<sup>-</sup> subgroup size (n=25) has a limited statistical power.”

      (2) Modeling in the mediation analysis focused on predicting risk behavior in this task from the model-derived bias for gains and suicidal symptom scores. However, the prediction of clinical interest is of suicidal behaviors from task parameters/behavior - as a psychiatrist or psychologist, I would want to use this task to potentially determine who is at higher risk of attempting suicide and therefore needs to be more closely watched rather than the other way around (predicting behavior in the task from their symptom profile). Unfortunately, the analyses presented do not show that this prediction can be made using the current task. I was left wondering: is there a correlation between beta_gain and STB? It is also important to test for the same relationships between task parameters and behavior in the healthy control group, or to clarify that the recommendations for potential clinical relevance of these findings apply exclusively to people with a diagnosis of depression or anxiety disorder. Indeed, in line 672, the authors claim their results provide "computational markers for general suicidal tendency among adolescents", but this was not shown here, as there were no models predicting STB within patient groups or across patients and healthy controls.

      Thank you for these thoughtful comments. Our study focuses on why adolescent patients with suicidality have increased risk behavior, aiming to provide a mechanism-based target for suicide prevention. Therefore, our dependent variable in the mediation model was gambling behavior. We also agree that the clinically relevant question is whether suicidality can be predicted from task-derived behavior/parameters. We thus used risky behavior and the potential mental parameters to predict STB. Linear regressions showed that gambling behavior, as well as the value-insensitive approach parameter, can predict suicidal symptom scores among patients (former: β = 9.189, t = 2.004, p = 0.048; latter: β = 5.587, t = 2.890, p = 0.005). In healthy controls, these predictions failed (gambling behavior: β = 1.471, t = 0.825, p = 0.411; approach: β = 0.874, t = 1.178, p = 0.241). These results suggest that clinical relevance of these findings apply exclusively to people with a diagnosis of depression or anxiety disorder. We found same patterns for the mood parameter (mood sensitivity to certain rewards: patients: β = -28.706, t = -2.801, p = 0.006; healthy controls: β = -2.204, t = -0.528, p = 0.599). In sum, we believe that our statement of “computational markers for general suicidal tendency among adolescents” is reasonable now. Please see our revisions below:

      Page 17:

      “Furthermore, linear regression showed that gambling rate can predict the current suicidal ideation score (BSI-C, β = 9.189, t = 2.004, p = 0.048) among patients, but not among HC (β = 1.471, t = 0.825, p = 0.411), suggesting that gambling behavior has patient-specific predictive utility for suicidal symptoms.”

      Page 19:

      “Furthermore, linear regression showed that approach parameter can predict the current suicidal ideation score (β = 5.587, t = 2.890, p = 0.005) among patients, but not among HC (β = 0.874, t = 1.178, p = 0.241), suggesting that value-insensitive approach parameter has patient-specific predictive utility for suicidal symptoms.”

      Page 21:

      “Furthermore, linear regression showed that mood sensitivity to CR can predict the current suicidal ideation score (β = -28.706, t = -2.801, p = 0.006) among patients, but not among HC (β = -2.204, t = 0.528, p = 0.599), suggesting that mood sensitivity to CR has patient-specific predictive utility for suicidal symptoms.”

      (3) The FDR correction for multiple comparisons mentioned briefly in lines 536-538 was not clear. Which analyses were included in the FDR correction? In particular, did the correlations between gambling rate and BSI-C/BSI-W survive such correction? Were there other correlations tested here (e.g., with the TAI score or ERQ-R and ERQ-S) that should be corrected for? Did the mediation model survive FDR correction? Was there a correction for other mediation models (e.g., with BSI-W as a predictor), or was this specific model hypothesized and pre-registered, and therefore no other models were considered? Did the differences in beta_gain across groups survive FDR when including comparisons of all other parameters across groups? Because the results were replicated in the online dataset, it is ok if they did not survive FDR in the patient dataset, but it is important to be clear about this in presenting the findings in the patient dataset.

      Thank you for raising the important issue of multiple testing and for asking us to clarify exactly which tests were covered by the FDR procedure. In the clinical dataset we conducted a large number of inferential tests (χ<sup>2</sup>, t-tests, ANOVAs, regressions) spanning: (i) group differences in demographic/clinical characteristics; (ii) sanity checks (e.g., anxiety/depression questionnaires); (iii) primary hypotheses (e.g., group differences in risky behavior); (iv) model-based analyses (parameter checks and between-group contrasts); and (v) control/sensitivity analyses. Post-hoc t-tests were performed only when the three-group ANOVA was significant. This yielded >150 p-values. FDR was applied using all these p-values. Please see our clarification below:

      Supplementary Page 4:

      “Supplementary Note 8: Clarification for FDR correction.

      In the clinical dataset we conducted a large number of inferential tests (χ<sup2\</sup>, t-tests, ANOVAs, regressions) spanning: (i) group differences in demographic/clinical characteristics; (ii) sanity checks (e.g., anxiety/depression questionnaires); (iii) primary hypotheses (e.g., group differences in risky behavior); (iv) model-based analyses (parameter checks and between-group contrasts); and (v) control/sensitivity analyses. Post-hoc t-tests were performed only when the three-group ANOVA was significant. This yielded >150 p-values. FDR was applied using all these p-values.”

      (4) There is a lack of explicit mention when replication analyses differ from the analyses in the patient sample. For instance, the mediation model is different in the two samples: in the patient sample, it is only tested in S+ and S- groups, but not in healthy controls, and the model relates a dimensional measure of suicidal symptoms to gambling in the task, whereas in the online sample, the model includes all participants (including those who are presumably equivalent to healthy controls) and the predictor is a binary measure of S+ versus S- rather than the response to item 9 in the BDI. Indeed, some results did not replicate at all and this needs to be emphasized more as the lack of replication can be interpreted not only as "the link between mood sensitivity to CR and gambling behavior may be specifically observable in suicidal patients" (lines 582-585) - it may also be that this link is not truly there, and without a replication it needs to be interpreted with caution.

      Thank you for these important comments. This study focused on cognitive and affective computational mechanisms underlying increased risky behavior in STB. Accordingly, we compared patients with STB (S<sup>+</sup>) with patients without STB (S<sup>-</sup>) and healthy controls (HC) to examine the effects of STB on risky behavior. Therefore, group comparison, instead of dimensional measure of suicidal symptoms by Beck Scale for Suicidal Ideation, can answer our research questions directly.

      To enhance consistency between the clinical and replication datasets, we included all participants in each dataset when performing the mediation analysis. Given that S<sup>-</sup> and HC did not differ in gambling behavior or the approach parameter in the clinical dataset, we merged these two groups. In the replication dataset, to mirror the S<sup>+</sup> vs. S<sup>-</sup> contrast used clinically, we categorized the general sample into S+ and S<sup>-</sup> based on BDI item 9. The mediation results remained significant in both datasets (the clinical dataset: a×b = 0.321, 95% CI = [0.070, 0.549], p = 0.016; the replication dataset: a×b = 0.143, 95% CI = [0.016, 0.288], p = 0.031), suggesting that STB is associated with increased risk behavior via stronger approach motivation.

      We also acknowledge the non-replication of the correlation between gambling behavior and mood sensitivity to certain rewards in the online sample. While this pattern might indicate that the link is specific to suicidal patients, it may also reflect sample-specific or unstable effects; thus, we now state this explicitly and interpret the finding with caution. Please see our revisions below:

      Page 15:

      “We next verified our results in an independent dataset, including the same task and BDI questionnaire in 747 general participants (500 females; age: 20.90±2.41) (46). One item in BDI involves the measurement of STB. In item 9 of BDI, participants chose one option that describes them best: Option 1, “I don't have any thoughts of killing myself.”; Option 2, “I have thoughts of killing myself, but I would not carry them out.”; Option 3, “I would like to kill myself.”; Option 4, “I would kill myself if I had the chance.”. In line with the current definition of S<sup>+</sup>/S<sup>-</sup> in the clinical dataset, we identified S<sup>+</sup> group as choosing Option 2, 3, or 4, while participants selecting Option 1 were categorized as S<sup>-</sup> group.”

      Page 19:

      “Given significant correlations between group, approach parameter, and gambling rate for gain trials (ps < 0.017), we further conducted a mediation analysis with the assumption of the mediating effect of approach motivation of suicidality on the risk behavior. Given that we aimed to test the effect of STB, with S<sup>-</sup> and HC as controls, and given that S<sup>-</sup> and HC did not differ in gambling behavior or in the approach parameter, we merged these two groups for the mediation analysis. Results supported our hypothesis (a×b = 0.321, 95% CI = [0.070, 0.549], p = 0.016; Figure 2C), confirming that suicidal thoughts and behavior increase risk behavior through stronger approach motivation.”

      Page 26:

      “However, we did not observe any significant correlation between mood sensitivity to CR and gambling behavior (ps > 0.389), which suggests that the link between mood sensitivity to CR and gambling behavior may be specifically observable in suicidal patients. Alternatively, this non-replicated result may also reflect sample-specific or unstable effects, which needs to be interpreted with caution.”

      (5) In interpreting their results, the authors use terms such as "motivation" (line 594) or "risk attitude" (line 606) that are not clear. In particular, how was risk attitude operationalized in this task? Is a bias for risky rewards not indicative of risk attitude? I ask because the claim is that "we did not observe a difference in risk attitude per se between STB and controls". However, it seems that participants with STB chose the risky option more often, so why is there no difference in risk attitude between the groups?

      Thank you for pointing out the ambiguity. In our manuscript, “motivation” and “risk attitude” are defined at the computational level. Following prior work with this task Rutledge et al., (2015, 2016), we decompose observed gambling into (i) value-dependent valuation parameters that capture risk attitude (e.g., risk aversion and loss aversion, which scale the subjective value of outcomes), and (ii) value-insensitive, valence-dependent biases that capture approach/avoidance motivation. Accordingly, a higher gambling rate does not imply a change in risk attitude per se: it can arise from an increased value-insensitive approach bias even when risk-attitude parameters are comparable between groups—which is what we observe for S<sup>+</sup> vs. controls. We have clarified this point in the computational modeling section.

      Pages 12-13:

      “Please note that a higher gambling rate does not imply a change in risk attitude per se: it can arise from an increased value-insensitive approach bias even when risk-attitude parameters are comparable between groups. Risk attitude is indeed conceptualized in economics as the curvature of the utility function (i.e., the subjective value) of the objective outcomes, with concave curves associated with risk aversion, and convex curves associated with risk seeking (54,56). By contrast, the approach or avoidance bias apply to all the value. A possible interpretation of the approach bias is that participant approach the option with the highest possible gain (the lottery) in the gain frame; the avoidance bias would then reflect a tendency to systematically avoid the highest potential losses (the lottery) in the loss frame.”

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This article addresses a very pertinent question: what are the computational mechanisms underlying risky behaviour in patients who have attempted suicide? In particular, it is impressive how the authors find a broad behavioural effect whose mechanisms they can then explain and refine through computational modeling. This work is important because, currently, beyond previous suicide attempts, there has been a lack of predictive measures. This study is the first step towards that: understanding the cognition on a group level. This is before being able to include it in future predictive studies (based on the cross-sectional data, this study by itself cannot assess the predictive validity of the measure).

      Strengths:

      (1) Large sample size.

      (2) Replication of their own findings.

      (3) Well-controlled task with measures of behaviour and mood + precise and well-validated computational modeling.

      Weaknesses:

      I can't really see any major weakness, but I have a few questions:

      (1) I can see from the parameter recovery that the parameters are very well identified. Is it surprising that this is the case, given how many parameters there are for 90 trials? Could the authors show cross-correlations? I.e., make a correlation matrix with all real parameters and all fitted parameters to show that not only the diagonal (i.e., same data is the scatter plots in S3) are high, but that the off-diagonals are low.

      Thank you for raising these thoughtful concerns. The current task consisted of 90 choices and 36 mood ratings. There were 5 choice parameters and 4 mood parameters. The apparently strong identifiability is not unexpected, as 90 choice trials and 36 mood ratings are comparable to those in prior computational modeling literature (Blain & Rutledge, 2022).

      As suggested, we computed cross-correlations between all generating (“true”) and recovered (“fitted”) parameters. The resulting matrix showed high diagonal (choice winning model: rs > 0.91; mood winning model: rs > 0.90) and low off-diagonal (choice winning model: abs(rs) < 0.63; mood winning model: abs(rs) > 0.40) correlations, further supporting parameter recovery. Please see our clarifications below:

      Supplementary Pages 2-3:

      “Parameter recovery: Figure S3 shows good parameter recovery for both choice and mood winning model (choice: rs > 0.91, ps < 0.001; intraclass coefficients > 0.78; mood: rs > 0.90, ps < 0.001; intraclass coefficients > 0.86). Moreover, we computed cross-correlations between all generating (“true”) and recovered (“fitted”) parameters. The resulting matrix showed high diagonal (choice winning model: rs > 0.91; mood winning model: rs > 0.90) and low off-diagonal (choice winning model: abs(rs) < 0.63; mood winning model: abs(rs) > 0.40) correlations, further supporting parameter recovery.”

      Page 10:

      “The numbers of choice trials and mood ratings were comparable to those in prior computational modeling studies (34,35).”

      (2) Could the authors clarify the result in Figure 2B of a correlation between gambling rate and suicidal ideation score, is that a different result than they had before with the group main effect? I.e., is your analysis like this: gambling rate ~ suicide ideation + group assignment? (or a partial correlation)? I'm asking because BSI-C is also different between the groups. [same comment for later analyses, e.g. on approach parameter].

      Thank you for pointing out the lack of clarity. We performed group difference analysis and correlation of suicidal ideation analysis, separately. We first performed group difference analysis to test our hypothesis of STB effects. We then conducted correlational analysis to further specify our findings.

      (3) The authors correlate the impact of certain rewards on mood with the % gambling variable. Could there not be a more direct analysis by including mood directly in the choice model?

      Thank you for this insightful suggestion. As suggested, we tried to integrate mood into choice models by adding mood bias component(s) in line with previous literature (Vinckier et al., 2018). The first model (mcM1) assumes that mood biases choice, building on cM3 (the winning choice model). cmM2 further separated the mood bias parameter into two components according to participants’ choices.

      However, model comparison using BIC supported cM3 (Table S6), that is, without consideration of mood in choice modeling. This can be due to the lack of block design in our experimental design unlike e.g., Vinckier et al., (2018) and Eldar & Niv, (2015). Please see our clarifications below:

      Supplementary Pages 3-4:

      “Supplementary Note 6: integration of mood into choice models

      Although we modeled choice and mood separately to examine cognitive and affective mechanisms underlying increased risk behavior in adolescent suicidal patients, one interesting question was whether mood responses influence subsequent gambling choices and how to model them. First, we median-split mood responses (except the final rating) to compare gambling rate. Results showed a trend for less gambling rate in higher mood (t = -1.971, p = 0.050). However, there was no significant group difference (F = 0.680, p = 0.507). Second, with the assumption that mood biases choice, we constructed mcM1 based on cM3 (the winning choice model).

      Based on our finding of the negative correlation between mood sensitivity to certain rewards and gambling rate in S<sup>+</sup>, we separated β<sub>Mood</sub> parameter into β<sub>Mood-CR</sub> and β<sub>Mood-GR</sub> (cmM2).

      Model comparison using BIC supported cM3 (Table S6), that is, without consideration of mood in choice modeling. The mood bias parameters in neither cM2 nor cM3 reached significance (ps > 0.091), which may be due to the absence of a blocked design in our experiment, unlike in Vinckier et al. (2018) and Eldar and Niv (2015).”

      (4) In the large online sample, you split all participants into S+ and S-. I would have imagined that instead, you would do analyses that control for other clinical traits. Or, for example, you have in the S- group only participants who also have high depression scores, but low suicide items.

      Thank you for this insightful suggestion. Following prior suicide-related literature (Tsypes et al., 2024), we controlled for depression by including them as covariates. Note that depression scores were derived from our established bifactor model (Wang et al., 2025), which decomposed depression from the anxiety. These results remained largely significant (ps ≤ 0.050), except a marginally significant effect of group on gambling behavior (p = 0.059). Despite a trend, this effect with covariates of depression-related questionnaires is strong in our clinical cohort (p = 0.024; Table S8). This suggests that the link between suicidality and risky behavior persists above and beyond general depressive symptoms.

      Please see our clarifications below:

      Page 26:

      “After controlling for depression severity using our established bifactor model (see ref 60 for details), these results remained significant (ps ≤ 0.050), except a marginally significant effect of group on gambling behavior (p = 0.059). Despite a trend, this effect with covariates of depression-related questionnaires is strong in our clinical cohort (p = 0.024; Table S8). This suggests that the link between suicidality and risky behavior persists above and beyond general depressive symptoms.”

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      This manuscript investigates computational mechanisms underlying increased risk-taking behavior in adolescent patients with suicidal thoughts and behaviors. Using a well-established gambling task that incorporates momentary mood ratings and previously established computational modeling approaches, the authors identify particular aspects of choice behavior (which they term approach bias) and mood responsivity (to certain rewards) that differ as a function of suicidality. The authors replicate their findings on both clinical and large-scale non-clinical samples.

      (1) The main problem, however, is that the results do not seem to support a specific conclusion with regard to suicidality. The S+ and S- groups differ substantially in the severity of symptoms, as can be seen by all symptom questionnaires and the baseline and mean mood, where S- is closer to HC than it is to S+. The main analyses control for illness duration and medication but not for symptom severity. The supplementary analysis in Figure S11 is insufficient as it mistakes the absence of evidence (i.e., p > 0.05) for evidence of absence. Therefore, the results do not adequately deconfound suicidality from general symptom severity.

      Thank you for this important comment. Based on clinical interviews, we included patients with and without suicidality (S<sup>+</sup> and S<sup>-</sup> groups). However, in line with suicidal-related literature (e.g., Tsypes et al., 2024), two groups also differed substantially in the severity of symptoms (see Table 1). To address the request for evidence on specificity to suicidality beyond general symptom severity, we performed separate linear regressions to explain in gambling behaviour, value-insensitive approach parameter (β<sub>gain</sub>), and mood sensitivity to certain rewards (β<sub>CR</sub>) with group as a predictor (1 for S<sup>+</sup> group and 0 for S<sup>-</sup> group) and scores for anxiety and depression as covariates. Results remained significant after controlling anxiety and depression (ps < 0.027; Table S8). Given high correlations among anxiety and depression questionnaires (rs > 0.753, ps < 0.001), we performed Principal Components Analysis (PCA) on the clinical questionnaire to extract the orthogonal components, where each component explained 86.95%, 7.09%, 3.27%, and 2.68% variance, respectively. We then performed linear regressions using these components as covariates to control for anxiety and depression. Our main results remained significant (ps < 0.027; Table S9). We believe that these analyses provide evidence that the main effects on gambling and on mood were specific to suicide.

      As pointed out, these “absence of evidence” cannot provide insights of “evidence of absence”. Although we median-split patients by the scores of general symptoms (e.g., depression and anxiety-related questionnaires) and verified no significant differences in these severities (Figure S11), we additionally conducted Bayesian statistics in gambling behavior, value-insensitive approach parameter, and mood sensitivity to certain rewards. BF<sub>01</sub> is a Bayes factor comparing the null model (M<sub>0</sub>) to the alternative model (M₁), where M<sub>0</sub> assumes no group difference. BF<sub>01</sub> > 1 indicates that evidence favors M<sub>0</sub>. As can be seen in Table S7, most results supported null hypothesis, suggesting that general symptoms of anxiety and depression overall did not influence our main results. Overall, we believe that these analyses provide compelling evidence for the specificity of the effect to suicide, above and beyond depression and anxiety.

      Please see our revisions below:

      Page 17:

      “Within patients, this group effect on gambling rate remained significant after controlling for sex, illness duration, family history, diagnosis, and various medications use (ps < 0.05), as well as general symptoms (e.g., depression and anxiety; p = 0.024; also see Figure S11, Table S7 and Table S8). Given high correlations among anxiety and depression questionnaires (rs > 0.753, ps < 0.001), we performed Principal Components Analysis (PCA) to extract main components, where each component explained 86.95%, 7.09%, 3.27%, and 2.68% variance, respectively. To further control for anxiety and depression, linear regression using these components as covariates revealed that the group effect on gambling rate remained significant (p = 0.024; Table S9).”

      Pages 18-19:

      “Within patients, this group effect on the approach parameter remained significant after controlling for sex, illness duration, family history, diagnosis, and various medications use (ps < 0.05), as well as general symptoms (e.g., depression and anxiety; p = 0.027; also see Figure S11, Table S7 and Table S8). Linear regression using PCA components as covariates revealed that the group effect on approach parameter remained significant (p = 0.027; Table S9).”

      Page 21:

      “Within patients, this group effect on βCR remained significant after controlling for gambling rate, earnings, mood-related outcome effect, mood drift effect, sex, illness duration, family history, diagnosis, and various medications use (ps < 0.032), as well as general symptoms (e.g., depression and anxiety; p = 0.001; also see Figure S11, Table S7 and Table S8). Linear regression using PCA components as covariates revealed that the group effect on this mood parameter remained significant (p = 0.001; Table S9).”

      (2) The second main issue is that the relationship between an increased approach bias and decreased mood response to CR is conceptually unclear. In this respect, it would be natural to test whether mood responses influence subsequent gambling choices. This could be done either within the model by having mood moderate the approach bias or outside the model using model-agnostic analyses.

      Thank you for this important suggestion. As suggested, one interesting question was whether mood responses influence subsequent gambling choices and how to model them. First, we median-split mood responses (except the final rating) to compare gambling rate. Results showed a trend for less gambling rate in higher mood (t = -1.971, p = 0.050). However, there was no significant group difference (F = 0.680, p = 0.507). Second, with the assumption that mood biases choice, we constructed mcM1 based on cM3 (the winning choice model). Based on our finding of the negative correlation between mood sensitivity to certain rewards and gambling rate in S<sup>+</sup>, we separated β<sub>Mood</sub> parameter into β<sub>Mood-CR</sub> and β<sub>Mood-GR</sub> (cmM2). Model comparison using BIC supported cM3 (Table S6), that is, without consideration of mood in choice modeling. This can be due to the lack of block design in our experimental design unlike e.g., Vinckier et al., (2018) and Eldar & Niv, (2015). Please see Supplementary Pages 3-4:

      (3) Additionally, there is a conceptual inconsistency between the choice and mood findings that partly results from the analytic strategy. The approach bias is implemented in choice as a categorical value-independent effect, whereas the mood responses always scale linearly with the magnitude of outcomes. One way to make the models more conceptually related would be to include a categorical value-independent mood response to choosing to gamble/not to gamble.

      We apologise for the unclear statement. The approach bias is implemented in choice as a continuous value-independent effect, ranging from -1 to 1.

      It was true that the mood responses always scale with the magnitude of outcomes, since mood ratings were request after the outcomes. Therefore, mood parameters and the approach bias were both continuous.

      We also attempted to integrate mood into choice modelling. See Response 2 for Reviewer 3 for details.

      (4) The manuscript requires editing to improve clarity and precision. The use of terms such as "mood" and "approach motivation" is often inaccurate or not sufficiently specific. There are also many grammatical errors throughout the text.

      Thank you for this important suggestion. We have now explained motivation and mood in the Introduction section and the computational modeling section. Please see our clarifications below:

      Pages 3-4:

      “A growing literature indeed shows that risky behavior can be far better explained after adding value-insensitive approach and avoidance components to prospect theory(18,19), that is by including a decision bias in favor of the highest gain (approach) and another decision bias against the lowest loss (avoidance), above and beyond options value difference. This class of models highlights the important role of value-insensitive motivational components in decision making in addition to risk attitude-driven valuation (e.g., loss/risk aversion)(20).”

      Page 5:

      “Although mood is thought to persist for hours, days, or even weeks(30-33), momentary mood, measured over the timescale in the laboratory setting, represents the accumulation of the impact of multiple events at the scale of minutes(30,32,34-38). Momentary mood external validity is demonstrated e.g., through its association with depression symptoms(37). Mood is different from emotions, which reflect immediate affective reactivity and is more transient (e.g., from surprise to fear)(31-33,39).”

      We have corrected grammatical errors throughout the manuscript.

      5) Claims of clinical relevance should be toned down, given that the findings are based on noisy parameter estimates whose clinical utility for the treatment of an individual patient is doubtful at best.

      Thank you for this comment. We agree that we did not evaluate the noise in our estimate e.g., by assessing the test-retest reliability on the task parameters, which is outside the scope of the study, and it is indeed possible that parameter estimate is somehow noisy. Therefore, we tone down the clinical relevance of our results. Please see our revision below:

      Page 32:

      “Next, we did not evaluate the noise in our estimate e.g., by assessing the test-retest reliability on the task parameters and it is indeed possible that parameter estimate is somehow noisy.”

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Title: I believe "aberrant mood dynamics" is both too general and overstating the results of this study, which did not measure mood dynamics longitudinally. "Aberrant" is also overly pathologizing. I would suggest sticking more directly to the results, for instance, "Insensitivity of momentary mood to non-risky rewards in adolescent suicidal patients".

      Thank you for this suggestion. We have now corrected it.

      (2) Abstract: in line 61, "Our study uncovers the cognitive and affective mechanisms" suggests that these are the only ones, and you uncovered them. Of course, there could be more mechanisms contributing to risk behavior in STB, so I would suggest removing the word "the" or adding "one of the".

      Thank you for this suggestion. We have now corrected it.

      (3) One major weakness of this study is that suicidal thoughts and behaviors were not assessed via a clinical instrument such as the Columbia Suicide Severity Rating Scale - this should be mentioned upfront.

      Thank you for this comment. According to medical records and information from family and friends by the researcher and psychiatrists, patients with suicidal thoughts and behaviors were categorized as suicidal group (S<sup>+</sup>), while patients without suicidal thoughts and behaviors were identified as control group (S<sup>-</sup>). Note that medical records and information were recorded from clinical interviews where the psychiatrists were vigilant for signs of suicidal ideation and inquired about suicidal-related thoughts and behaviors from both the patients and their families. Therefore, the current group operation was possibly comparable to Columbia Suicide Severity Rating Scale.

      (4) Table 1: female/male are sex, not gender (gender is man/woman/transgender/non-binary).

      Thank you for this suggestion. We have now corrected it.

      (5) Equation 1: It would be good to clarify what happens in gain-only or loss-only trials (the other value is then 0, but this can be clarified as it is not technically a loss or a gain).

      Thank you for this suggestion. We have now corrected it. Please see below for our revision:

      Page 12:

      “Please note that V<sub>gain</sub> is 0 in gain trials and V<sub>loss</sub> is 0 in loss trials.”

      (6) Figure 1E: The model prediction is not informative here. Given the linear regression model, there is no other option except that the mean prediction would overlap with the mean empirical measurement (unless the model was specified incorrectly). The same is true in Figure 2A.

      Thank you for this suggestion. We have now removed plots for model prediction.

      (7) Figure 1G: There was no analysis of the differences between groups in terms of earnings, given that the ANOVA was not significant. Still, if the claim is that risky behavior is sometimes suboptimal in this task, it would be good to show that there is a correlation between, say, symptoms of STB across groups and 1) risky behavior and 2) earnings.

      Thank you for this insightful comment. In the patient cohort, risky behavior (gambling rate)—but not earnings—predicted the current suicidal ideation score (BSI-C, β = 9.189, t = 2.004, p = 0.048; earnings, β = 0.001, t = 0.582, p = 0.562). The lack of association for earnings is consistent with the task design, in which there is no stable optimal policy and payouts are only a coarse proxy for decision quality. Future work in learning paradigms, where optimality is well defined, may be better suited to test earnings-based links to STB. We have clarified this point below:

      Page 32:

      “Second, although we assumed that increased risky behavior in STB was suboptimal, the current task was not suited to test this, given the task design of random feedback for gambling option. Future work in learning paradigms, where optimality is well defined, may be better suited to test earnings-based links to STB.”

      (8) Line 290: "beta_gain: -1-1" is unclear. I believe you meant beta_gain \in [-1,1].

      Thank you for this suggestion. We have now corrected it to make it clear.

      (9) The gain and loss biases are modeled as minimum and maximum probabilities for choosing the gamble. This is a legitimate choice for value-agnostic biases, but it is not the traditional choice (as far as I know). I wonder if the same results would hold with the more traditional formulation of the bias as an added constant to the utility of the gamble, i.e., p(gamble) = 1/(1+ exp(-mu(U_gamble + beta_gain - U_certain)). I believe in this case, you would also not have to specify different equations for positive or negative biases, or to limit the bias to the range of [-1,1] (indeed, the bias would be in reward-equivalent units).

      Thank you for this suggestion. The winning choice model we used here was consistent with previous literature (Rutledge et al., 2015 & 2016), which decomposed the decision process into risk-attitude-driven valuation (e.g., loss and risk aversion) and value-insensitive motivational components. These approach/avoidance parameters are a decision bias in favor of the highest gain (approach) and another decision bias against the lowest loss (avoidance), above and beyond options value difference.

      As suggested, we also compared the traditional bias choice model. Model comparison did not support this. Please see our revision below:

      Supplementary Page 4:

      “We also considered the traditional bias parameter (cM4), rather than approach/avoidance parameters. We limited the bias to the range of [-100, 100], which was in reward-equivalent units.

      However, model comparison did not support cM4 (Table S6).”

      (10) Also, for equations 5-8, it seems that 5-6 are identical to 7-8 except for the use of beta_gain versus beta_loss. You might want to consider simplifying by putting beta in the equations and specifying in the text that, depending on the trial type (loss or gain), the relevant beta is used.

      Thank you for this suggestion. We have now simplified it. Please see response to Reviewer 2, point 3.

      (11) It is not clear what equations are applied to mixed trials in cM3.

      Sorry for the confusion. We have now clarified this point.

      Page 12:

      “Approach/avoidance parameters are not applied to in mixed trials.”

      (12) Model comparison: the mood models are nested within each other (e.g., mM3 can be derived from mM1 by setting beta_EV = beta_RPE). In this case, model comparison can use the likelihood ratio test instead of BIC, which can be too conservative (and therefore does not support the extra beta parameter for RPE, different from previous results in the literature). I wonder if a likelihood ratio test would lead to results more in line with previous findings with this task?

      Thanks for this suggestion. We agree that mM1 (CR+EV+RPE) and mM3 (CR+GR) are nested. However, our model space also included unnested models, such as mM5 (CR+GR<sub>better</sub>+GR<sub>worse</sub>). Therefore, it was not reasonable in our model space to use likelihood ratio tests.

      (13) Line 346: The replication sample is described as "healthy participants," however, their health (or mental health) status was not assessed, and they may as well have mental health concerns. I would suggest calling this a general sample or an undifferentiated sample - but not a healthy sample.

      Sorry for the confusion. We have now corrected this phrase.

      (14) Line 363: "in addition to the replication of previous findings in the validation dataset" is unclear. Are those tests not two-tailed?

      Sorry for the unclear statement. In the replication analyses, we used one-tailed t-tests because the direction of the effect was revealed on the clinical dataset. Please see our clarification below:

      Page 15:

      “For the replication of previous findings in the validation dataset, we used one-tailed tests in line with our clinically motivated directional hypothesis.”

      (15) Line 372: "validating our group manipulation" - the presented work does not have a manipulation. Maybe you meant "validating our grouping of participants"?

      Thank you for this suggestion. We have now corrected it to make it clear.

      (16) Figure 2B: It is not clear how the data were binned for illustration purposes only, and why this binning is necessary (I have not seen it in other papers) - presenting the data from each subject and the correlation line with error margins (as is done here) should be sufficient.

      Thank you for flagging this. For illustration only, we binned the data proportional to group sizes: in the patient sample (S<sup>-</sup> n = 25; S<sup>+</sup> n = 58; ≈1:2), we displayed 3 bins for S<sup>-</sup> and 6 bins for S<sup>+</sup>. We agree that binning is not necessary; all statistics were computed on raw, unbinned data. The binned panel was included solely for visualization, consistent with our prior work (Blain et al., 2023).

      (17) Table 2: delta BIC should be presented per subject (that is, divided by the number of subjects in each group), as the groups are of different sizes, so as presented now, the columns are not comparable across groups.

      Thank you for the helpful suggestion. Our goal in Table 2 is not to compare ΔBIC magnitudes across groups, but to identify the winning model within each group. The ΔBICs are aggregated at the group level solely to rank models for that group. Dividing by the number of participants would rescale each group’s column by a constant and would therefore not affect the within-group ranking or the conclusion that cM3 is the best model in all groups. For this reason, we retain the current presentation and interpret each column within group rather than across groups.

      (18) Line 640 - the effect of expectations and prediction errors on mood was not only shown in healthy people, but also in people with depression (Rutledge et al., 2007, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28678984/)

      Thank you for this comment. Indeed, Rutledge et al., (2017) showed evidence for CR+EV+RPE mood model in adult people with depression. However, our study recruited adolescents with depression or anxiety, given that adolescent period might provide a developmental window for opportunities for early intervention of suicidality. Therefore, it is also possible that the current winning model was specific to adolescents. Please see our clarifications below:

      Page 28:

      “It is also possible that the current winning model was specific to adolescents. Given that Rutledge et al., (2017) supported the “CR-EV-RPE model” in adults with depression, our study with adolescent populations may suggest a developmental change for mood sensitivities.”

      (19) Supplemental material: Is the R2 section about R-squared? Perhaps you can use superscript on the 2 to make that clearer? For Figure S2, how was model recovery determined? Should I interpret the confusion matrix as suggesting that the winning model for each and every simulated subject was the generating model, or was the winning model determined for the whole simulated population in each of the 100 simulations? Traditionally, confusion matrices use the former measure, but the results of 100% recoverability make me suspect the latter was used here. In Figure S3, should we not be looking at simulated parameters and recovered parameters? What are "real parameters" here?

      Thank you for these important comments. We now consistently denote the coefficient of determination as R<sup>2</sup> (with a superscript 2) throughout the manuscript and Supplementary Materials.

      For the model recovery analysis in Figure S2, we have clarified that the confusion matrix is computed at the population level. Specifically, for each of the 100 simulations we generated a full dataset under each candidate model, fit all models to that dataset, and selected the winning model based on group-level model evidence (BIC). Each cell in the confusion matrix therefore reflects the proportion of simulations in which model j was selected as the best-fitting model when the data were generated by model i. This operation was reasonable because the decision of the winning model is made on the population-level dataset rather than on individual subjects.

      In Figure S3, the term “real parameters” referred to the parameters used to generate the simulated data. To avoid confusion, we now relabel these as “simulated (generating) parameters” and explicitly describe the figure as showing the relationship between simulated (generating) parameters and recovered parameters. Please see our revisions below:

      Supplementary Pages 2-3:

      “Model recovery: We generated 100 simulated datasets for each model (3 choice models and 8 mood models) using the fitted parameters of each model as the ground truth. Each dataset contained 201 trials and included 3 (or 8) sets of simulated data corresponding to the respective models. For each simulated dataset, we then fit all models and determined the winning model at the population level based on group-level BIC, yielding a confusion matrix in which each entry represents the proportion of simulations in which model j was selected as the best-fitting model when the data were generated by model i. As shown in Figure S2, all models are highly identifiable, indicating excellent recovery performance for both the choice and mood models.”

      “Parameter recovery: Figure S3 shows good parameter recovery for both choice and mood winning model (choice: rs > 0.91, ps < 0.001; intraclass coefficients > 0.78; mood: rs > 0.90, ps < 0.001; intraclass coefficients > 0.86). Moreover, we computed cross-correlations between all generating (“generating”) and recovered (“fitted”) parameters. The resulting matrix showed high diagonal (choice winning model: rs > 0.91; mood winning model: rs > 0.90) and low off-diagonal (choice winning model: abs(rs) < 0.63; mood winning model: abs(rs) > 0.40) correlations, further supporting parameter recovery.”

      Typos:

      (1) Line 90: original → originate

      (2) Line 596-598 - the same phrase is repeated twice.

      (3) Line 616: on the other word → hand.

      Sorry for the mistakes. We have now corrected them throughout the manuscript.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      For people unfamiliar with interpersonal theory or motivational-volitional model, or three-step theory (lines 105-106), could you briefly explain the key idea of mood and suicide before going to the decision-making tasks? And from this, maybe motivate the predictions in your task? In particular, in the abstract and introduction, the phrasing could be a bit more concise and simpler. In the abstract, sentences were sometimes quite long. In the introduction, some paragraphs are somewhat repetitive. In the discussion, there were some typos.

      Thank you for these suggestions. We have now explained the key idea of mood and suicide before going to the decision-making tasks in the introduction, which can be seen below:

      Pages 4-5:

      “Contemporary theories of suicide converge on the idea that STB is initially caused by low mood experience. The interpersonal theory of suicide proposes that suicidal desire arises when people simultaneously feel socially disconnected (“thwarted belongingness”) and like a burden on others (“perceived burdensomeness”), experiences that are tightly linked to chronically low mood(25). The motivational–volitional model(26) and the three-step theory(27,28) similarly emphasize that when negative mood and feelings of defeat or entrapment are experienced as inescapable, they can give rise to suicidal ideation, and that the progression from ideation to suicide attempts depends on additional factors such as reduced fear of death, increased pain tolerance, and a tendency to act impulsively under intense affect. Some official organizations, e.g., National Institute of Mental Health, have also listed mood problems as warning signals(8). Interestingly, within the framework of decision making under uncertainty, gambling on lotteries with a revealed outcome has been found to induce high mood variance(29), providing an opportunity to assess the relationship between deficient mood and increased gambling decisions in STB.”

      We have also refined the wording and corrected typos throughout the manuscript.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Since many readers might only read the abstract, it is important that it is both informative and accurate. I have two suggestions in this respect. First, for the abstract to be more informative, it may be helpful to indicate already there that these are value-insensitive approach-avoidance parameters, in the sense that they favor/disfavor the gamble regardless of the potential outcomes' magnitude or probability. This issue is also present throughout the text, where the phrases "approach and avoidance motivation" are referred to as if they have established and precise computational definitions. In my view, these terms could just as easily be interpreted as parameters that multiply the value of potential gains or losses, which is not what the authors mean. It would be helpful to clarify this terminology.

      Thank you for these suggestions. In line with previous literature (Rutledge et al., 2015 & 2016), approach and avoidance motivation are indeed defined at the computational level, referring to a decision bias in favor of the highest gain (approach) and another decision bias against the lowest loss (avoidance), above and beyond options value difference. We have cited these papers in the manuscript. We also make it clear to further clarify approach and avoidance parameters in the abstract and introduction. Please see our revisions below:

      Page 2 (Abstract):

      “Using a prospect theory model enhanced with value-insensitive approach-avoidance parameters revealed that this rise in risky behavior resulted only from a heightened approach parameter in S<sup>+</sup>.Altogether, model-based choice data analysis indicated dysfunction in the approach system in S<sup>+</sup>, leading to greater propensity for gambling in the gain domain regardless of the lottery expected value.”

      Page 3 (Introduction):

      “A growing literature indeed shows that risky behavior can be far better explained after adding value-insensitive approach and avoidance components to prospect theory(18,19), that is by including a decision bias in favor of the highest gain (approach) and another decision bias against the lowest loss (avoidance), above and beyond options value difference. This class of models highlights the important role of value-insensitive motivational components in decision making in addition to risk attitude-driven valuation (e.g., loss/risk aversion)(20).”

      (2) The statement "our study uncovers the cognitive and affective mechanisms contributing to increased risk behavior in STB" is overstating the findings, as the study may have uncovered some contributing mechanisms, but likely not all of them. Removing the word "the" would fix this issue.

      Thank you for this suggestion. We have now corrected it.

      (3) Since mood is typically defined as lasting hours, it's inappropriate to refer to ratings that only reflect the last few trials as self-reports of mood. To be sure, I view the distinction between emotions and moods as quantitative, not qualitative, so I do not think there is a problem studying the former to understand the latter, but to avoid confusion, the terminology should follow common usage.

      Thank you for this suggestion. We follow previous work and operational definitions regarding mood (Rutledge et al., 2014, Eldar & Niv, 2015, Vinckier et al., 2018). Emotion is usually a very brief response to a specific stimulus (Emanuel & Eldar, 2023), e.g., leading to rapid changes like surprise then fear. In contrast, mood is defined as a diffuse state that is not specific to one stimulus. Here, we operationally and computationally define mood as an affective state reflecting the recent history of safe and gamble outcomes. We now clarify that point in the main text. Please see our revision below:

      Page 5:

      “Although mood is thought to persist for hours, days, or even weeks(30-33), momentary mood, measured over the timescale in the laboratory setting, represents the accumulation of the impact of multiple events at the scale of minutes(30,32,34-38). Momentary mood external validity is demonstrated e.g., through its association with depression symptoms(37). Mood is different from emotions, which reflect immediate affective reactivity and is more transient (e.g. from surprise to fear)(31-33,39).”

      (4) Line 78: The phrases "increase in risk attitude", "decrease in loss attitude", and "decrease in value-independent choice biases" are unclear to me in terms of their directionality. An attitude might be avoidant or embracing. If it is the former then increasing it would decrease risk-taking.

      Thank you for pointing out the ambiguity. We have now corrected them throughout the manuscript. Please see our revision below:

      Page 4:

      “We therefore hypothesized that heightened approach motivation, or weakened avoidance motivation, would account for increased risk behavior in STB.”

      (5) Line 125: I was not sure why one would expect the mood response to gamble-related quantities (EV and RPE) to be lower in STB and not higher.

      Sorry for the typo. We hypothesized that mood would respond more strongly to gambling-related quantities—expected value (EV) and reward prediction error (RPE)—in adolescents with STB than in controls, given prior evidence that STB is associated with greater risk-taking.

      (6) The text could use proofreading, as there are many typos. These are from the first 100 lines alone:

      a) Abstract: regardless the lotteries -> regardless of the lotteries'.

      b) Line 78: it remains whether.

      c) Line 80: can each -> each can.

      d) Line 90: may original from.

      Sorry for the mistakes. We have now corrected them throughout the manuscript.

      (7) The rationale for focusing on the S+ group for mood model comparison is incorrect. The purpose is to identify parameters that vary as a function of suicidality, and for that, the S- group is just as important.

      Thank you for this comment. We agree that the S<sup>-</sup> group is as important as the S<sup>+</sup> group. A direct comparison was complicated because the winning mood models differed (S<sup>+</sup>: mM3; S<sup>-</sup>: mM5; Table 3). To ensure comparability, we checked results from both model specifications (mM3 and mM5). The conclusions were convergent: mood sensitivity to certain rewards (CR) was lower in S<sup>+</sup> than in S<sup>-</sup> (see Fig. 3 for mM3 and Fig. S8 for mM5).

      (8) There appears to be a contradiction between the inclusion criteria, which include having experienced suicidal thoughts and behaviors, and the definition of the S- group as not having suicidality.

      Thank you for pointing out this mistake. The corrected version of inclusion criteria can be seen on Page 7:

      “Patients were included if they met the following criteria: 1) both the researcher and psychiatrists agreed on their group classification; 2) they had a current diagnosis of major depressive disorder (MDD; unipolar depression), generalized anxiety disorder (GAD), or bipolar disorder with depressive episodes (BD), confirmed by two experienced psychiatrists using the Structured Clinical Interview for DSM-IV-TR-Patient Edition (SCID-P, 2/2001 revision; see Supplementary Note 1 for details); 3) they were between 10 and 19 years of age; 4) they had no organic brain disorders, intellectual disability, or head trauma; 5) they had no history of substance abuse; 6) they had no experience of electroconvulsive therapy.”

      (9) It would be helpful to specify whether mood modeling was based on objective or subjective values, and why.

      Thank you for this helpful suggestion. We have now clarified whether mood modeling was based on objective or subjective values, and why. Specifically, we constructed two model families: one in which mood was driven by objective monetary outcomes (objective values) and one in which mood was driven by subjective values derived from each participant’s fitted choice model (subjective values). We then used the VBA_groupBMC function in the VBA toolbox to perform family-wise model comparison, with 8 candidate mood models within each family. Consistent with previous literature, the objective-value family provided a clearly superior fit to the data (exceedance probability, EP = 1.000). Based on this result and for parsimony, we report and interpret the mood modeling results from the objective-value family in the main text. We have clarified this point below:

      Supplement Pages 4-5:

      “Supplementary Note 9: Mood model comparison using subjective values.

      To identify whether mood modeling was based on objective or subjective values, we constructed two model families: one in which mood was driven by objective monetary outcomes (objective values) and one in which mood was driven by subjective values derived from each participant’s fitted choice model (subjective values). We then used the VBA_groupBMC function in the VBA toolbox (Daunizeau et al., 2014) to perform family-wise model comparison, with 8 candidate mood models within each family. Consistent with previous literature, the objective-value family provided a clearly superior fit to the data (exceedance probability, EP = 1.000).”

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Data:

      (a) The main weakness in the data is the lack of functional and anatomical data from mouse hair bundles. While the authors compensate in part for this difficulty with bullfrog crista bundles, those data are also fragmentary - one TEM and 2 exemplar videos. Much of the novelty of the EM depends on the different appearance of stretches of a single kinocilium - can we be sure of the absence of the central microtubule singlets at the ends?

      Our single-cell RNA-seq findings show that genes related to motile cilia are specifically expressed in vestibular hair cells. This has not been demonstrated before. We have also provided supporting evidence using electrophysiology and imaging from bullfrogs and mice. Although no ultrastructural images of mouse vestibular kinocilia were provided in our study, transmission electron micrograph of mouse vestibular kinocilia has been published (O’Donnell and Zheng, 2022). The mouse vestibular kinocilia have a “9+2” microtubule configuration with nine doublet microtubules surrounding two central singlet microtubules. This finding contrasts with a previous study, which demonstrated that the vestibular kinocilia from guinea pigs lack central singlet microtubules and inner dynein arms, whereas outer dynein arms and radial spokes are present (Kikuchi et al., 1989). The central pair of microtubules is absent at the end of the bullfrog saccular kinocilium (Fig. 7A). We would like to point out that the dual identity of primary and motile cilia is not just based on the TEM images. The kinocilium has long been considered a specialized cilium, and its role as a primary cilium during development has been demonstrated before (Moon et al., 2020; Shi et al., 2022).

      In most motile cilia, the central pair complex (CPC) does not originate directly from the basal body; instead, it begins a short distance above the transition zone, a feature that already illustrates variation in CPC assembly across systems (Lechtreck et al., 2013). The CPC can also show variation in its spatial extent: for example, in mammalian sperm axonemes, it can terminate before reaching the distal end of the axoneme (Fawcett and Ito, 1965). In addition, CPC orientation differs across organisms: in metazoans and Trypanosoma, the CPC is fixed relative to the outer doublets, whereas in Chlamydomonas and ciliates it twists within the axoneme (Lechtreck et al., 2013). Such variation has been described in multiple motile cilia and flagella and is therefore not unique to vestibular kinocilia. What appears more unusual in our data is the organization at the distal tip, where a distinct distal head is present, similar to cilia tip morphologies recently described in human islet cells (Polino et al., 2023). Although this feature is intriguing, we interpret it primarily as a structural signature rather than as evidence for a specialized motile adaptation, and we have moderated our interpretation accordingly in the revision.

      (b) While it was a good idea to compare ciliary motility expression in published P2 datasets for mouse cochlear and vestibular hair cells for comparison with the authors' adult hair cell data, the presentation is too superficial to assess (Figure 6C-E; text from line 336) - it is hard to see the basis for concluding that motility genes are specifically lower in P2 cochlear hair cells than vestibular hair cells. Visually, it is striking that CHCs have much darker bands for about 10 motility-related genes.

      While these genes (e.g., Dynll1, Dynll2, Dynlrb1, Cetn2, and Mdh1) appear more highly expressed in P2 cochlear hair cells, they are not uniquely associated with the axoneme. For example, Dynll1/2 and Dynlrb1 are components of the cytoplasmic dynein-1 complex (Pfister et al., 2006), Cetn2 has multiple basic cellular functions beyond cilia (e.g., centrosome organization, DNA repair), and Mdh1 encodes a cytosolic malate dehydrogenase involved in central metabolic pathways such as the citric acid cycle and malate–aspartate shuttle. This contrasts with axonemal dyneins, which are uniquely required for cilia motility. To avoid ambiguity, we have marked such cytoplasmic or multifunctional genes with red asterisks in both Fig. 5G and Fig. 6D in the revised manuscript.

      Our comparison showed that key genes for motile machinery are not detected in cochlear hair cells. For example, Dnah6 and Dnah5 are not expressed in the P2 cochlear hair cells. Dnah6 and Dnah5 encode axonemal dynein and are part of inner and outer dynein arms. Importantly, we did not detect the expression of CCDC39 and CCDC40 in kinocilia of P2 cochlear hair cells. Furthermore, axonemal CCDC39 and CCDC40, the molecular rulers that organize the axonemal structure in the 96-nm repeating interactome were not detected in cochlear hair cells. We have revised the text to emphasize key differences.

      (2) Interpretation:

      The authors take the view that kinociliary motility is likely to be normally present but is rare in their observations because the conditions are not right. But while others have described some (rare) kinociliary motility in fish organs (Rusch & Thurm 1990), they interpreted its occurrence as a sign of pathology. Indeed, in this paper, it is not clear, or even discussed, how kinociliary motility would help with mechanosensitivity in mature hair bundles. Rather, the presence of an autonomous rhythm would actively interfere with generating temporally faithful representations of the head motions that drive vestibular hair cells.

      Spontaneous flagella-like rhythmic beating of kinocilia in vestibular HCs in frogs and eels (Flock et al., 1977; Rüsch and Thurm, 1990) and in zebrafish early otic vesicle (Stooke-Vaughan et al., 2012; Wu et al., 2011) has been reported previously. Based on Rüsch and Thurm (1990), spontaneous kinocilia motility occurred under non-physiological conditions and was interpreted as a sign of cellular deterioration rather than a normal feature. We speculate that deterioration under non-physiological conditions may lead to the disruption of lateral links between the kinocilium and the stereociliary bundle, effectively unloading the kinocilium and allowing it to move more freely. Additionally, fluctuations in intracellular ATP levels may contribute, as ciliary motility is highly ATP-dependent; when ATP is depleted, beating ceases. Similar phenomena have been documented in respiratory epithelia, where ciliary activity can temporarily pause. Nevertheless, the fact that kinocilia can exhibit spontaneous motility under these conditions indicates that they possess the motile machinery necessary for such beating. Irrespective of the condition, cilia without the molecular machinery required for motility will not be able to move.

      We agree with the reviewer that, based on the present data, it is difficult to know the functional role of kinocilia and whether the presence of such autonomous rhythm would interfere with temporal fidelity. Spontaneous bundle motion, driven by the active process associated with mechanotransduction, was observed in bullfrog saccular hair cells (Benser et al., 1996; Martin et al., 2003). We have revised the discussion to clarify this important point of the reviewer. Specifically, we will emphasize that our observations of ciliary beating in the ex vivo conditions may not reflect its properties in the mature in vivo context, but rather a byproduct of motile machinery clearly present in the kinocilia. We speculate that this machinery in mature hair cells could operate in a more subtle mode—modulating the rigor state of dynein arms or related axonemal structures to influence kinociliary mechanics and, in turn, bundle stiffness in response to stimuli or signaling cues. Such a mechanism could either enhance sensitivity or introduce filtering properties, thereby contributing to the fine control of mechanosensory function without compromising temporal fidelity. Future studies using loss-of-function approach will be needed to reveal the unexplored role(s) of kinocilia for vestibular hair cells in vertebrates.

      We note that spontaneous activity exits throughout nervous system. It allows the nervous system to maintain baseline activity and interpret signals. Retinal cells are spontaneously active even in the dark and spiral ganglion neurons also fire spontaneously. Spontaneous hair bundle motion driven by mechanotransduction-related mechanism has been observed in bullfrog saccular hair cells. So, it is unlikely that spontaneous kinocilia beating would interfere with generating temporally faithful representations.

      Could kinociliary beating play other roles, possibly during development - for example, by interacting with forming accessory structures (but see Whitfield 2020) or by activating mechanosensitivity cell-autonomously, before mature stimulation mechanisms are in place? Then a latent capacity to beat in mature vestibular hair cells might be activated by stressful conditions, as speculated regarding persistent Piezo channels that are normally silent in mature cochlear hair cells but may reappear when TMC channel gating is broken (Beurg and Fettiplace 2017). While these are highly speculative thoughts, there is a need in the paper for more nuanced consideration of whether the observed motility is normal and what good it would do.

      We thank the reviewer for these excellent suggestions. We agree that kinociliary motility could plausibly serve roles during development, for example by guiding hair bundle formation or by contributing to early mechanosensitivity and spontaneous neural activity before mature stimulation mechanisms are established. It is also possible that the motility machinery represents a latent capacity in mature vestibular hair cells that could be reactivated under stress or pathological conditions. We have revised the Discussion to address these possibilities and to provide a more nuanced consideration of whether the observed motility is normal and what potential functions it might serve.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this study, the authors compared the transcriptomes of the various types of hair cells contained in the sensory epithelia of the cochlea and vestibular organs of the mouse inner ear. The analysis of their transcriptomic data led to novel insights into the potential function of the kinocilium.

      Strengths:

      The novel findings for the kinocilium gene expression, along with the demonstration that some kinocilia demonstrate rhythmic beating as would be seen for known motile cilia, are fascinating. It is possible that perhaps the kinocilium, known to play a very important role in the orientation of the stereocilia, may have a gene expression pattern that is more like a primary cilium early in development and later in mature hair cells, more like a motile cilium. Since the kinocilium is retained in vestibular hair cells, it makes sense that it is playing a different role in these mature cells than its role in the cochlea.

      Another major strength of this study, which cannot be overstated, is that for the transcriptome analysis, they are using mature mice. To date, there is a lot of data from many labs for embryonic and neonatal hair cells, but very little transcriptomic data on the mature hair cells. They do a nice job in presenting the differences in marker gene expression between the 4 hair cell types. This information is very useful to those labs studying regeneration or generation of hair cells from ES cell cultures. One of the biggest questions these labs confront is what type of hair cells develop in these systems. The more markers available, the better. These data will also allow researchers in the field to compare developing hair cells with mature hair cells to see what genes are only required during development and not in later functioning hair cells.

      We would like to thank reviewer 2 for his/her comments and hope that the datasets provided in this manuscript will be a useful resource for researchers in the auditory and vestibular neuroscience community.

      Joint Recommendations for the authors:

      (1) Figure 1 - Explain how hair cell types are recognized after dissociation. Figure 1 will not be clear in this regard for non-aficionados. Some of the dissociated cells shown appear quite distorted and even unhealthy - e.g., the bottom right crista type II hair cell; the second from left crista type I hair cell; can you address why this doesn't matter for the purposes of this study?

      HC types in Fig. 1C were identified based on their morphological features: Type I HCs are flask-shaped with a narrow neck while type II HCs are cylindrical and short. We have replaced those cells with new images. In our study, HCs were identified based on their marker genes. Although some HCs such as those shown in Fig. 3C were impossible to avoid during preparation of single cells for library (most people did not examine their morphology), quality of mRNA and sequencing was high, better than those datasets published in previous studies.

      (2) Line 98 - Explain accessory cells (as opposed to supporting cells).

      We changed accessory cells to other cell types.

      (3) Line 246 - The primary cilium is...

      Changed.

      (4) Figure 6D - The scale bar is missing. Please use arrows to point to the genes you call out in the text. Also, the genes called out in the text as differently expressed (line 342) are quite faint bands in both cell types. It would be a service to the reader to point them out in the panel.

      A scale bar has been added. We also marked those genes as suggested and edited the text accordingly.

      (5) Figure 7 - mixes frog crista and mouse middle ear images with waveforms and FFTs from frog crista, mouse middle ear, and mouse crista. Related to these still images are 2 videos of frog kinocilium beating (2 hair cells). The mouse images must be underwhelming, or we would have been shown those, yet they were considered adequate to analyze.

      Yes, the spontaneous kinocilia motion of mouse crista HCs is very small. The peak motion is about 40 nm, which is very close to the resolution of our camera. That is why we used photodiode technique to detect its motion. Photodiode is more sensitive, and this technique allows us to observe dynamic response waveform.

      (6) I recommend labeling each figure panel with the tissue of origin to avoid confusion.

      Labeled as suggested.

      (7) I suggest dropping the mouse middle ear data, as they are not directly adequate as a positive control (or no more so than the more beautiful frog data).

      We keep the waveforms of middle ear cilia movement in Fig. 7. The main reason is that we would like to show the magnitude difference between airway cilia and kinocilia. The kinocilia movement was at least an order of magnitude less than the movement of airway cilia. This has led to our effort to generate a model to predict the 96-nm modular repeat and explain why kinocilia movement in mice is much smaller than airway cilia and bullfrog kinocilia.

      (8) Focus on the hair bundle motions:

      (a) Show the waveforms for the frog crista hair cells and their FFTs.

      These images were captured many years ago using camera. The kinocilia motion is between 5 and 10 Hz. We did not present any waveforms of kinocilia motion since we no longer have access to bullfrogs. However, although we did not present response waveforms, the videos are very powerful for visualization of kinocilia beat of bullfrog saccular HCs.

      (b) Find some way to show us how you measured the mouse hair bundle beating.

      Photodiode technique was used to measure spontaneous kinocilia motion in mice. More details are now included in the text.

      (c) Does EGTA break links between kinocilium and stereocilia? (Could that contribute to the higher beat frequency?) Just applying the same treatment and viewing from above could clarify whether kinocilia dissociate from stereocilia rows. This would likely be more straightforward with an otolith organ.

      All these links (tip links, side links) are vulnerable to Ca concentration and Ca-free medium is often used to break these links as shown in many previous studies. Breaking the kinocilia links leads to reduced load to the kinocilia, which may result in larger motion of the kinocilia. The frequency is inherent to motile machinery and subject to temperature and intracellular ATP concentration. When facing upward, the hair bundles in otolith organ do not have a good contrast against HCs in the background. This makes measurement of their motion difficult, especially when the motion is small and random and can’t be averaged to improve signal to noise ratio. Besides, unlike cochlear HCs whose hair bundles are short and can easily be oriented in parallel with light path, the long hair bundle of vestibular HCs is more difficult to orient and image. For these reasons, we chose to use crista hair bundles for our measurements since they can be oriented in perpendicular to the light path without interference from background HCs. The lateral motion of the entire bundle is also relatively easy to measure in this preparation.

      (6) Is there no reason to cite McInturff et al. (2018), given that they compared type I and II VHC transcriptomes at P12 and P100? This database is also available on gEAR.

      Their studies are now cited. We also compared their datasets with ours.

      (7) Line 374 - Eatock et al., 1998 citation does not work for this purpose. Eatock & Songer (2011) would be better, or Li, Xue, Peterson (2008): mouse utricle anatomy; significant discussion of relative heights of kinocilia and tallest stereocilia.

      Changed and cited.

      (8) In Figure 3, 2 of the 18 panels in B are missing labels.

      The bar, applied to all panels, was there at the bottom of Fig. 3B. The bar is bigger and more visible in the revision.

      (9) Line 187 should "Sppl1" be Spp1?

      Corrected.

      (10) Define BBSome on line 244.

      Added.

      (11) Looking at Figure 5, it seems that all the motile genes are expressed in the vestibular hair cells and not the cochlear hair cells. It is surprising that there are any cilia-related genes expressed in these adult cochlear hair cells, given that they do not retain their cilia into adulthood. Could the authors make a comment on this finding in the discussion? Also, are there any ciliopathies that show a vestibular defect but normal hearing in mice or humans? Have you compared the cilia-related gene expression in neonatal/embryonic vestibular hair cells to your dataset?

      There are many kinocilia related genes still expressing adult cochlear HCs. It is not surprising to see many kinocilia related genes in cochlear HCs. Most of these genes are related to primary cilia structure including the basal body and transporters in cilia. The basal body is still present in cochlear HCs. Many other primary cilia-related proteins are also expressed in soma, especially those related to signal transduction, microtubule cytoskeleton, actin cytoskeleton, vesicle transport, metabolic enzyme, protein folding, translation, nuclear transport, ubiquitination, RNA binding, mitochondrial proteins and transcription factors. Of course, some of them are vestigial. We added discussion of this in the text. Comparison between neonatal cochlear and vestibular was presented in Fig. 6D. We compared those genes related to the axonemal repeat (96 nm repeat complex). Due to quality of mRNA, the total genes and genes related to kinocilia detected in previous developmental studies were much less than our datasets. While we detected 112 out of 128 genes related to axonemal repeat, only 90 genes were detected in previous studies (Burns et al., 2015; McInturff et al., 2018). Therefore, we only compared neonatal cochlear and vestibular HCs using their datasets. As far as we know, no ciliopathies with vestibular defects but normal hearing have been reported in mice or humans. But we plan to use a Ccdc39 mutant mouse model to examine how loss of function of a key motile cilia signature gene would affect kinocilia motility and vestibular function.

      (12) How is "expression level" in the violin plots being calculated? Is this a measure of read count? The normalization is cursorily explained in the methods. Is this value comparable across genes? Did the authors switch to z-score by Figure 6?

      We dissected the auditory and vestibular sensory epithelia from the same groups of mice and prepared libraries and sequenced them at the same time. All parameters are the same. The violin Plots are based on values presented in Supplementary Table 1. Each dot in the plot reflects an aggregated number of reads across all cells for each gene. They are all normalized across different HC types and biological repeats. The details for normalization are now provided.

      (13) The authors comment on the 16/128 motile cilia axonemal repeat genes that are not expressed in the vestibular hair cells. Listing these somewhere may be helpful to the readers.

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful suggestion. Most of the 128 motile cilia axonemal repeat genes were listed in Figs 8C and S5, along with known loss-of-function mutations and ciliopathy associations identified in human diseases or observed in animal models. To improve clarity, we have now included Table S2, which provides the complete list of all 128 motile cilia axonemal repeat genes, including those not expressed in vestibular HCs.

      (14) Figure 5D needs some refinement. While the authors used databases, including CiliaCarta, SYSCILIA gold standard, and CilioGenics, to identify the primary cilia-related genes, they have included many genes that are not highly specific to primary cilia function (e.g., HSP90, HSPA8, DNAJA4, GNAS...). Perhaps the authors would be able to do a better job of specifically querying primary cilia function by using genes that are common to these three databases.

      We presented comparison and analysis based on three major cilia databases, which are generated from proteomics of cilia from different tissues/organisms. In addition, we have provided more comprehensive list of primary cilia-related genes in Fig. S2. While majority of cilia-related genes/proteins are highly conserved, some genes/proteins are tissue-/organism-specific. Majority of the genes presented in Fig. 5D of our manuscript are shared among all three databases. The cilium is a complex structure, composed of proteins for microtubule cytoskeleton, actin cytoskeleton, vesicle transport, metabolic enzyme, signaling, and protein folding. It also contains proteins for translation, nuclear transport, ubiquitination, RNA binding as well as mitochondrial proteins and transcription factors (https://ciliogenics.com/?page=Home). Proteins such as HSP90 and HSPA8 are important for protein folding. HSPA8 also functions as an ATPase in the disassembly of clathrin-coated vesicles during transport of membrane components through the cell. GNAS is part of a G protein complex that transmits signals. DNAJA4 is one of the high-confidence cilia proteins (mean score of 1.26, expression rank is 938). These proteins are detected in cilia according to CilioGenics (https://ciliogenics.com/?page=Home). These proteins are not highly specific to cilia and are expressed in soma as well. Most of these proteins for signaling such as WNT (Supplementary Fig. 2) are detected in both cilia and soma.

      (15) The authors state, "Furthermore, we observed robust spontaneous kinocilia motility in bullfrog crista HCs and small spontaneous bundle motion in mouse crista HCs." This statement should be moderated by acknowledging that this motility was observed in only some cells. The authors favor the hypothesis that the lack of motility in some crista HCs is due to depolarization or damage to the sample. The authors should also acknowledge the possibility that there may be cell-to-cell variability in the motility of the kinocilia.

      We address these issues in public review section. We modified the statement as suggested.

      (16) The first few pages of the Results section include many lists of genes. Readability may be improved if this is curtailed modestly.

      Changed as suggested. We removed comparison among different types of HCs and replotted Fig. 2B. This has reduced the number of genes mentioned in the text.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      In this revised manuscript, Qin and colleagues aim to delineate a neural mechanism that is engaged specifically in the sated flies to suppress the intake of sugar solution (the "brake" mechanism for sugar consumption). They identified a three-step neuropeptidergic system that downregulates the sensitivity of sweet-sensing gustatory sensory neurons in sated flies. First, neurons that release a neuropeptide Hugin (which is an insect homolog of vertebrate Neuromedin U (NMU)) are in active state when the concentration of glucose is high. This activation depends on the cell-autonomous function of Hugin-releasing neurons that sense hemolymph glucose levels directly. Next, the Hugin neuropeptides activate Allatostatin A (AstA)-releasing neurons via one of Hugin receptors, PK2-R1. Finally, the released AstA neuropeptide suppresses sugar response in sugar-sensing Gr5a-expressing gustatory sensory neurons through AstA-R1 receptor. Suppression of sugar response in Gr5a-expressing neurons reduces fly's sugar intake motivation. They also found that NMU-expressing neurons in the ventromedial hypothalamus (VMH) of mice (which project to the rostal nucleus of the solitary tract (rNST)) are also activated by high concentrations of glucose independent of synaptic transmission, and that injection of NMU reduces the glucose-induced activity in the downstream of NMU-expressing neurons in rNST. These data suggest that the function of Hugin neuropeptide in the fly is analogous to the function of NMU in the mouse.

      The shift of the narrative, which focuses specifically on the hugin-AstA axis as the "brake" on the satiety signal and feeding behavior, clarified the central message of the presented work. The authors have provided multiple lines of compelling evidence generated through rigorous experiments. The parallel study in mice adds a unique comparative perspective that makes the paper interesting to a wide range of readers.

      While I deeply appreciate the authors' efforts to substantially restructure the manuscript, I have a few suggestions for further improvements. First, there remains room for discussion whether the "brake" function of the hugin-AstA axis is truly satiety state-dependent. The fact that neural activation (Fig. Supp. 8), peptide injection (Fig. 3A, 4A), receptor knockdown (Fig. 3C,G, 4E), and receptor mutants (Fig. Supp. 10, 12) all robustly modulate PER irrespective of the feeding status suggests that the hugin-AstA axis influences feeding behaviors both in sated and hungry flies. Additionally, their new data (Fig. Supp. 13B, C) now shows that synaptic transmission from hugin-releasing neurons is necessary for completely suppressing feeding even in sated flies. If the hugin-AstA axis engages specifically in sated (high glucose) state, disruption of this neuromodulatory system is expected to have relatively little effect in starved flies (in which the "brake" is already disengaged).

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out this inconsistency. We have corrected this interpretation. Specifically:

      (1) We removed statements suggesting that the circuit is fully disengaged during starvation.

      (2) We now state that endogenous hugin activity is reduced during starvation, but the circuit retains modulatory capacity when experimentally perturbed.

      (3) The Discussion now emphasizes that the system operates as a state-modulated inhibitory tone rather than a strictly fed-state switch.

      We believe this revised framing resolves the discrepancy.

      In this context, it is intriguing that the knockdown of PK2-R2 hugin receptor modestly but consistently decreases proboscis extension reflex specifically in starved flies (Fig. 3D, H). The manuscript does not discuss this interesting phenotype at all. Given the heterogeneity of hugin-releasing neurons (Fig. Supp. 7), there remains a possibility that a subset of hugin-releasing neurons and/or downstream neurons can provide a complementary (or even opposing) effect on the feeding behavior.

      We agree that this is an important observation. Although the effect size is modest, it is reproducible and suggests that hugin signaling may not operate as a strictly linear pathway.

      To address this:

      (1) We added a paragraph in the Results acknowledging the PK2-R2-dependent phenotype.

      (2) We included a discussion noting the potential functional heterogeneity of hugin neurons.

      (3) The schematic model (now Figure Supplementary 17, previously Figure Supplementary 16) includes a dashed line indicating a possible parallel PK2-R2-dependent branch.

      Given these intriguing yet unresolved issues, it is important to acknowledge that whether this system is "selectively engaged in fed states to dampen sweet sensation (in Discussion)" requires further functional investigations. Consistent effects of manipulation of the hugin-AstA system across multiple experimental approaches underscores the importance of this molecular circuitry axis for controlling feeding behaviors. Moderation of conclusions to accommodate alternative interpretation of data will be beneficial for field to determine the precise mechanism that controls feeding behaviors in future studies.

      We fully agree with the reviewer. Our original description of the circuit as a “satiety brake” implied exclusive engagement in fed states, which is not strictly supported by the behavioral data. Although endogenous hugin activity is elevated under fed conditions (as shown by CaMPARI), experimental manipulations demonstrate that the circuit retains functional capacity to modulate feeding behavior across feeding states.

      To address this concern, we have:

      (1) Removed the term “satiety-specific brake” throughout the manuscript.

      (2) Reframed the circuit as a glucose-responsive, state-modulated inhibitory module.

      (3) Revised the Discussion to explicitly state that the hugin–AstA pathway biases sweet sensitivity according to circulating glucose levels rather than functioning as an on/off switch.

      (4) Substantially revised Supplementary Figure 17 to reflect graded modulation across metabolic states rather than binary state engagement.

      These changes better align our conclusions with the experimental observations.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The question of how caloric and taste information interact and consolidate remains both active and highly relevant to human health and cognition. The authors of this work sought to understand how nutrient sensing of glucose modulates sweet sensation. They found that glucose intake activates hugin signaling to AstA neurons to suppress feeding, which contributes to our mechanistic understanding of nutrient sensation. They did this by leveraging the genetic tools of Drosophila to carry out nuanced experimental manipulations, and confirmed the conservation of their main mechanism in a mammalian model. This work builds on previous studies examining sugar taste and caloric sensing, enhancing the resolution of our understanding.

      Strengths:

      Fully discovering neural circuits that connect body state with perception remains central to understanding homeostasis and behavior. This study expands our understanding of sugar sensing, providing mechanistic evidence for a hugin/AstA circuit that is responsive to sugar intake and suppresses feeding. In addition to effectively leveraging the genetic tools of Drosophila, this study further extends their findings into a mammalian model with the discovery that NMU neural signaling is also responsive to sugar intake.

      Weaknesses:

      The effect of Glut1 knockdown on PER in hugin neurons is modest in both fed and starved flies, suggesting that glucose intake through Glut1 may only be part of the mechanism.

      We agree that the modest PER phenotype suggests that Glut1-mediated glucose uptake represents one component of glucose sensing in hugin neurons. We have clarified this in the Discussion and now explicitly state that additional glucose-sensing mechanisms may contribute to hugin activation.

      Additionally, many of the manipulations testing the "brake" circuitry throughout the study show similar effects in both fed and starved flies. This suggests that the focus of the discussion and Supplemental Figure 16 on a satiety-specific "brake" mechanism may not be fully supported by the data.

      We fully agree that the previous framing overstated state specificity.

      As described above, we have:

      (1) Removed “satiety-specific brake” terminology.

      (2) Reframed the circuit as a glucose-responsive inhibitory module.

      (3) Revised the Discussion to explicitly acknowledge modulation across feeding states.

      (4) Updated the schematic model (Figure Supplementary 17, formerly Figure Supplementary 16) accordingly.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewing Editor (Recommendations for the authors):

      Both the reviewers and I agree that the conclusion about a "satiety-dependent" brake needs to be modified to discuss the phenotypes that are also observed under starved conditions. Reviewer 1 would further like to emphasize that the authors are not required to follow through with the specific recommendations suggested by them. Modifying the conclusion and Supplementary Figure 16 should suffice.

      We sincerely thank the Reviewing Editor for the clear guidance. We fully agree that our previous framing of the hugin–AstA circuit as a strictly “satiety-dependent” brake may have overstated the state specificity of the system.

      In response to this recommendation, we have:

      (1) Revised the Abstract, Results, and Discussion to moderate the conclusion and explicitly acknowledge the phenotypes observed under starved conditions.

      (2) Reframed the circuit as a glucose-responsive, state-modulated inhibitory module, rather than a satiety-exclusive brake.

      (3) Supplementary Figure 17 (formerly Figure Supplementary 16) has been substantially revised to illustrate graded modulation across metabolic states rather than binary engagement.

      We appreciate the clarification that no additional experiments were required and are grateful for the opportunity to improve the conceptual framing of our work.

      Please include full statistical reporting in the main manuscript (e.g., figure legends or results).

      We have revised all figure legends to include full statistical reporting.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      By re-framing their finding as the "brake" mechanism on satiety-induced suppression of feeding behavior and sensitivity to sweet taste, the authors substantially improved the clarity of their findings and their significance. The additional data (Fig. Supp. 13B, C) allows "apple-to-apple" comparisons of behavioral data. I support the publication of this manuscript with no further experiments, although I have several suggestions for the text.

      As I write in the public review, I have a reservation on the authors' argument that hugin-AstA system is the "'satiety brake' - that is selectively engaged in fed states to dampen sweet sensation (lines 392-394)". Manipulation of both hugin system (Fig. 2C, Fig. 3A, C, D, G, Fig. Supp. 8A, C, Fig. Supp. 10A-C, Fig. Supp. 13B, C) and AstA system (Fig. 4A, E, Fig. Supp., 8C, D, Fig. Supp. 12A-C, Fig. Supp. 13D) all indicate that hugin-AstA system suppresses feeding regardless of the satiety state. Specifically, Fig. Supp. 13B shows that synaptic blockade does further increases PER, causing contradictions to authors' statements ("silencing hugin+ neurons led to enhanced sweet-driven feeding behavior (line 299-300)" and "...further silencing has little additional effect (line 402)"). The CaMPARI data (Fig. 1J) provides the link between the activity levels of hugin-releasing neurons and satiety state. However, the fact that eliminating hugin-AstA signal can promote further PER in starved flies suggests that this brake is not completely satiety-dependent. I ask authors to at least discuss this perceived discrepancy between their data and conclusions.

      Also, the authors' finding that PK2-R2 reduction actually suppresses PER specifically among starved flies (Fig. 3D, H), albeit with relatively small effect size, suggests that hugin-AstA axis is not a singular, linear pathway as authors suggest in Fig. Supp. 16. While delineating the PK2-R2-dependent pathway is beyond the scope of this study, at least a line of discussion would be helpful.

      Minor comments:

      (1) Fig. Supp. 8 (dTRPA1 activation of hugin and AstA neurons), and Fig. Supp. 13B-D (inhibition of hugin and AstA neurons) should be in the main figure given its relevance to the narrative of this manuscript.

      We agree with the reviewer regarding their importance. The key behavioral panels from these figures have now been moved to the main figures to strengthen the narrative flow.

      (2) Fig. Supp. 11 (PER and imaging using decapitated heads only), despite its creativity, leaves me wonder how PER of fly heads looks like. It is a highly artificial and invasive experiment. Supplementary movies would be helpful.

      We apologize for the lack of clarity in our description. In this experiment, flies were not decapitated. Instead, we surgically severed the connection between the brain and the ventral nerve cord (VNC), while keeping the body and proboscis musculature intact. Thus, the flies remained physically intact, and PER was measured using the same behavioral protocol as in intact animals.

      We have revised the figure legend to clarify this point and avoid confusion. Because the behavioral procedure was identical to standard PER assays and the flies retained normal proboscis motor function, we did not include supplementary videos.

      (3) Expression patterns of PK2-R1 and AstA-R2 in proboscis are mentioned in text but with no data (lines 229 and 279). I strongly encourage authors to show images.

      We have now included the relevant expression images in the revised manuscript.

      (4) A citation for the "previous study (line 486)" describing PER method is required.

      The appropriate citation has been added.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Public Review:

      We thank the editor and reviewers for their thoughtful and constructive feedback, which has enabled us to greatly strengthen the manuscript. We apologize for the delay in resubmitting this as we were dealing with a large turnover in the lab due to trainee graduations which has We have carefully revised the text, figures, and supplementary materials in response to these comments. Below, we summarize the key revisions made followed by a point-by-point response to the reviewers’ critiques.

      (1) Performed CUTS analyses in human neuronal system: In the revised manuscript, we included new data demonstrating that the CUTS system can be applied to additional cellular models, specifically neuronal cells (Figure 5, Figure S4). To address whether CUTS functions effectively in neuronal contexts, we generated stable CUTS-expressing lines in differentiated BE(2)-C and ReN VM–derived differentiated neurons (Figure 5A-D, Figure S4 A-C). To ensure this was neuronal expression, we developed a new Tet-On3G system construct where the Tet-On3G transactivating protein is driven by the SYN1 promoter to ensure neuron-specific inducible expression for these experiments.

      (2) Define the relationship between CUTS and endogenous/physiological cryptic exons inclusion: To evaluate how well the CUTS system reflects physiological cryptic exon regulation, we performed RT-PCR analysis of several cryptic exons previously reported by us and evaluated CUTS activation at the RNA level in parallel (Figure S2E) . CUTS is sensitive to low-mild reductions in TDP-43 levels, whereas the tested endogenous cryptic exons exhibit variable responses to TDP-43 knockdown.

      (3) Defining stress-induced TDP-43 loss of function: We included new data demonstrating that the CUTS system can detect TDP-43 loss of function induced by acute sodium arsenite (NaAsO₂) treatment in HEK cells (Figure 3D–I). We have also tested additional stressor as part of a separate ongoing study where this work will be expanded upon (Xie et al., 2025). We selected this paradigm since TDP-43 loss of function in response to acute NaAsO₂ treatment is also supported by work from other labs(Huang et al., 2024).

      (4) Implications of using a TDP-43 Loss-of-Function sensor for therapeutic applications: In the revised manuscript, we clarify that CUTS-TDP43 is auto-regulated and we highlight two potential therapeutic applications: i) TDP-43 Knockdown-and-replacement: CUTS-TDP43 provides a strategy for simultaneous depletion of pathological TDP-43 species while enabling autoregulated re-expression of wild-type TDP-43. This design mitigates the risk of supraphysiologic overexpression, a known liability in conventional replacement approaches, by restoring TDP-43 within a self-limiting regulatory network that maintains homeostatic control. ii) Aggregation-independent correction: Because CUTS is autoregulatory, it can be repurposed to regulate alternative downstream effectors, including splicing modifiers or TDP-43 functional interactors, without expressing TDP-43 itself. This approach provides a potential aggregation-independent strategy to compensate for TDP-43 loss-of-function (LOF) by restoring downstream splicing. We are evaluating this work in a follow up study (Xie et al., 2025). In these ongoing studies, we show that CUTS-regulated expression of splicing proteins in response to TDP-43 loss restored subsets of cryptic exon events (24/28 events evaluated). These findings suggest CUTS as a versatile tool for both autoregulated TDP-43 replacement and trans-regulatory therapeutic correction. We expanded on this concept in the discussion section of this revised manuscript. We also note that autoregulatory TDP-43 biosensor strategies have been proposed in related systems, including TDP-Reg, underscoring broader interest in self-regulated TDP-43 systems (Wilkins et al., 2024).

      (5) Clarified mechanism of TDP-43 5FL causing strong loss of function: The TDP-43 5FL exhibits reduced RNA binding capacity, and we previously showed that the lack of RNA binding promotes aberrant homotypic phase separation of TDP-43 (Mann et al., 2019). Expression of RNA-deficient TDP-43 variant forms nuclear “anisomes” (Yu et al., 2021), which evidence suggests sequesters endogenous TDP-43 protein into insoluble structures. We expanded on this in our results section in this revised manuscript.

      (6) Improved figure clarity and data presentation: To enhance clarity and organization, we maintained the main structure of the manuscript while reorganizing figures and improved data visualization. Some examples include:

      Figure 1: We revised the schematic layout for greater clarity and simplicity. The figure now focuses more specifically on the CUTS data, with additional data on the UNC13A-TS and CFTR-TS moved to Figure S1. To improve readability, titles were added to all schematic panels. Visual consistency was also improved by refining the color labelling for each sensor in Figures 1C and 1D and adjusting the corresponding bar graphs accordingly.

      Figure 2: We reorganized the figure to clearly distinguish between protein and mRNA analyses for greater clarity. In the revised layout, western blot quantifications of TDP-43 and CUTS (GFP) signals are shown in Figures 2D and 2E, respectively, while the corresponding qPCR analyses are presented in Figures 2H and 2I. Minor edits include removing the percentage knockdown and fold-change annotations from the graphs and incorporating these values into a mini-table in Figure S2E.

      The original Figure 2D and 2G were reincorportated as reference panels in Figure S2A–B, while new graphs showing CUTS protein-level changes as a function of TDP-43 knockdown were added (Figure S2C–D). We also incorporated new data showing the behavior of endogenous cryptic exons under low siTDP-43 treatment (Figure S2E).

      Figure 3: We added new data demonstrating that the application of the CUTS system in detecting TDP-43 loss of function induced by stress conditions. Specifically, we show that sodium arsenite (NaAsO₂) treatment leads to TDP-43 functional impairment detectable by CUTS and supported with endogenous cryptic exon via RT-PCR (Figure 3D-I).

      Figure 5 and Figure S4: We introduced a new figure that demonstrates the effective application of the CUTS system in differentiated neuronal systems, thereby extending its usability to disease-relevant cell types.

      Figures 2SA and 4B were edited to include the corresponding labels on the sides of each image for clarity. Sup Figure 2A was moved to Sup Figure 3A, while Figure 4B remains in its original configuration.

      We thank the reviewers again for their insightful critiques and helpful suggestions, which have enabled us to substantially improve the manuscript. Please find our detailed response to each review below:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors create an elegant sensor for TDP -43 loss of function based on cryptic splicing of CFTR and UNC13A. The usefulness of this sensor primarily lies in its use in eventual high throughput screening and eventual in vivo models. The TDP-43 loss of function sensor was also used to express TDP-43 upon reduction of its levels.

      Strengths:

      The validation is convincing, the sensor was tested in models of TDP-43 loss of function, knockdown and models of TDP-43 mislocalization and aggregation. The sensor is susceptible to a minimal decrease of TDP-43 and can be used at the protein level unlike most of the tests currently employed,

      Weaknesses:

      Although the LOF sensor described in this study may be a primary readout for high-throughput screens, ALS/TDP-43 models typically employ primary readouts such as protein aggregation or mislocalization. The information in the two following points would assist users in making informed choices.

      (1) Testing the sensor in other cell lines

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. In agreement with this suggestion, we generated ReN VM cell lines and used a neuroblastoma cell line model (BE(2)-C) expressing the TetOn3G CUTS system under a human synapsin I (hSYN1) promoter. In this construct the transactivator protein is under the control of a neuronal specific hSYN1 promoter whereas the classical TetOn3G system uses a CMV-like promoter. Several studies have reported reduced activity or silencing of CMV and PGK-driven transgenes in neurons. Therefore, we for our neuronal experiments, we removed this promoter to generate a new version of a doxycycline-inducible CUTS system in which Tet-On 3G transactivator is now driven by the hSYN1 promoter which will express CUTS in response to doxycycline treatment. In this improved construct, we also replaced mCherry with mScarlet to enhance the fluorescent signal.

      To test this neuronal-adapted system, we established stable CUTS expression in undifferentiated BE(2)-C cells, a subclone of the SK-N-BE(2) neuroblastoma line that has been used to study TDP-43–dependent splicing function(Brown et al., 2022). This model can be differentiated into neuron-like cells within 10 days, as shown in Supplementary Figure 4A. Using this model, we confirmed that TDP-43 knockdown leads to robust activation of the CUTS system (Figure 5B-E). We additionally tested this in in a stable polyclonal ReN VM cells following differentiation into cortical-like neurons (Figure 5D, Figure S4B-C).

      (2) Establishing a correlation between the sensor's readout and the loss of function (LOF) in the physiological genes would be useful given that the LOF sensor is a hybrid structure and doesn't represent any physiological gene. It would be beneficial to determine if a minor decrease (e.g., 2%) in TDP-43 levels is physiologically significant for a subset of exons whose splicing is controlled by TDP43.

      We agree with the reviewer that correlating the sensor’s readout with physiological TDP-43 splicing targets is essential to validate its biological relevance. To this end, we complemented our sensor expression profile with endogenous cryptic exons (CEs) sensitive to TDP-43 depletion. We tested a panel of five physiological cryptic exons regulated by TDP-43 (LRP8, EPB41L4A, ARHGAP32, HDGFL2, and ACBD3). To address the reviewer’s concerned, we performed RT-PCR on samples from the low-dose siTDP-43 experiment shown in Figure S2E.

      The endogenous CEs used in the panel were selected based on our own and others’ preliminary observations. Among these, HDGFL2 showed a particularly robust increase in cryptic exon inclusion at very low siTDP-43 concentrations (38 pM), while untreated samples showed almost no CE inclusion. This finding strongly supports a direct mechanism linking mild TDP-43 reduction to loss of physiological splicing control.

      (3) Considering that most TDP-LOF pathologically occurs due to aggregation and or mislocalization, and in most cases the endogenous TDP-43 gene is functional but the protein becomes non-functional, the use of the loss of function sensor as a switch to produce TDP-43 and its eventual use as gene therapy would have to contend with the fact that the protein produced may also become nonfunctional. This would eventually be easy to test in one of the aggregation modes that were used to test the sensor.. However, as the authors suggest, this is a very interesting system to deliver other genetic modifiers of TDP-43 proteinopathy in a regulated fashion and timely fashion.

      We thank the reviewer for this thoughtful point and agree that in the disease-relevant context where endogenous TDP-43 is intact but TDP-43 function is lost due to mislocalization and/or aggregation, a re-supply of TDP-43 risks sequestration and loss of activity. In our manuscript, the CUTS-TDP43 module was presented as a control circuit proof-of-concept rather than a stand-alone approach: it demonstrates that CUTS can (i) sense LOF with high dynamic range and proportionality, and (ii) drive a payload under negative feedback such that total TDP-43 remains near baseline while partially rescuing a splicing readout (CFTR minigene) under knockdown conditions.

      Importantly, we evaluated CUTS in aggregation/mislocalization-prone contexts: ΔNLS, 5FL, and ΔNLS+5FL variants trigger CUTS activation (ref), allowing us to quantify LOF arising from these aggregation modes. This confirms that CUTS can operate precisely in the very settings where sequestration is likely to occur.

      To directly address the reviewer’s suggestion, in the revision we (i) clarify in the Discussion that CUTS-TDP43 is a circuit demonstration and not our proposed monotherapy in aggregation-dominant disease; and (ii) expand our therapeutic framing into two approaches:

      Knockdown-and-replacement: concurrently deplete aggregation-prone/endogenous pathologic TDP-43 species (i.e., mutant TDP-43) while using CUTS to re-deliver wild-type TDP-43 under autoregulation. Aggregation-independent correction: use of CUTS to deliver modifiers that bypass TDP-43 sequestration (e.g., downstream effectors or splicing correctors that restore LOF consequences without expressing TDP-43 itself).

      (4) I don't think the quantity of siRNA is directly proportional to the degree of TDP-43 knockdown/extent of TDP-43 loss. Therefore, to enhance the utility of the dose-response curves, I'd suggest using TDP-43 levels as the variable on the x-axis, rather than the amount of siRNA administered or even just adding a plot alongside the current plots would enable readers to quickly evaluate LOF response levels concerning the protein. While I understand that the sensitivity of Western blots for quantification might be why the authors have not created the graphs in this manner, having this information would be useful.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s insightful comment. As noted, in the original version of the graph, we incorporated the percentage of TDP-43 knockdown corresponding to each siTDP-43 concentration (indicated in red text). However, we agree that this format was not easy to interpret, given the amount of information presented. To address this, we generated two new plots in which the x-axis represents TDP-43 levels (percentage of remaining protein or mRNA), and the y-axis shows the fold change in CUTS signal measured by (i) TDP-43 protein pixel intensity and (ii) TDP-43 mRNA levels, respectively. These new plots are now included as Supplementary Figures 2C–D, which allow a clearer visualization of CUTS readout in relation to actual TDP-43 levels rather than siRNA dose. As the reviewer anticipated, the reason we did not originally present the data in this format was that at low siTDP-43 concentrations, the fold change is minimal and more difficult to quantify by Western blot. Nevertheless, we have now incorporated the revised plots to strengthen the interpretation of the dose–response relationship. Additionally, we experience batch effects across siRNA lots. We believe this revised format should enhance the clarity of the result.

      (5) p3 line 74: one of the reasons cited as a pitfall of using the endogenous cryptic exons exhibit variable responses to TDP-43 loss and may be cell type-specific. has the sensor been used in different cell lines?

      We tested the CUTS system in differentiated neuronal models using two differentiated neuronal cell types, BE(2)C and ReN VM cells. The results are presented in Figure 5 and Figure S4 of the revised manuscript.

      (6) The order of the text describing 1A and 1B is confusing. The text starts describing the TS cassettes referring to 1A using the CUTS cassettes which haven't been introduced yet as an example. I'd suggest reorganising this section. The graph, always in 1A showing readout proportional to GFP should be taken out or highlighted in the figure legend that it is theoretical.

      We agree with the reviewer’s point. In the original schematic (Figure 1A), we included the CUTS system as an example to introduce the TS cassette design, since it contains the three possible sensor configurations. However, we recognize that this could be confusing. Therefore, we have removed the CUTS cassette from Figure 1A, along with the theoretical graph showing GFP readout proportional to the degree of TDP-43 LOF. In agreement with this change, we also restructured Figure 1. As the focus is the CUTS system, we have moved the Western blot and quantification of UNC13A-TS and CFTR-TS to Supplementary Figure 1.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors goal is to develop a more accurate system that reports TDP-43 activity as a splicing regulator. Prior to this, most methods employed western blotting or QPCR-based assays to determine whether targets of TDP-43 were up or down-regulated. The problem with that is the sensitivity. This approach uses an ectopic delivered construct containing splicing elements from CFTR and UNC13A (two known splicing targets) fused to a GFP reporter. Not only does it report TDP-43 function well, but it operates at extremely sensitive TDP-43 levels, requiring only picomolar TDP-43 knockdown for detection. This reporter should supersede the use of current TDP-43 activity assays, it's cost-effective, rapid and reliable.

      Strengths:

      In general, the experiments are convincing and well designed. The rigor, number of samples and statistics, and gradient of TDP-43 knockdown were all viewed as strengths. In addition, the use of multiple assays to confirm the splicing changes were viewed as complimentary (ie PCR and GFPfluorescence) adding additional rigor. The final major strength I'll add is the very clever approach to tether TDP-43 to the loss of function cassette such that when TDP-43 is inactive it would autoregulate and induce wild-type TDP-43. This has many implications for the use of other genes, not just TDP-43, but also other protective factors that may need to be re-established upon TDP-43 loss of function.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Admittedly, one needs to initially characterize the sensor and the use of cell lines is an obvious advantage, but it begs the question of whether this will work in neurons. Additional future experiments in primary neurons will be needed.

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting the importance of validating the sensor in neuronal models, given the central role of TDP-43 dysfunction in ALS/FTD and related neurodegenerative disorders. While initial characterization in established cell lines provides experimental control and scalability, we agree that demonstrating functionality in neuronal systems is essential. To address this, we adapted the CUTS platform for neuronal application by incorporating the human synapsin-1 (hSYN1) promoter into the Tet-On 3G system to enable inducible, neuronal specific expression. We validated this configuration in differentiated BE(2)-C cells (Figures 5A-C, S4A-C), where CUTS retained robust responsiveness to TDP-43 perturbation. In parallel, we generated stable CUTS-expressing ReN VM neural progenitor cells and differentiated them for three weeks prior to functional assessment (Figures 5A-C, S4A-C). In both neuronal models, CUTS was functional and responsive to TDP-43 siRNA. We are currently optimizing promoter selection and expression paradigms for fully differentiated iPSC-derived neuronal models and will be the subject of future studies.

      (2) The bulk analysis of GFP-positive cells is a bit crude. As mentioned in the manuscript, flow sorting would be an easy and obvious approach to get more accurate homogenous data. This is especially relevant since the GFP signal is quite heterogeneous in the image panels, for example, Figure 1C, meaning the siRNA is not fully penetrant. Therefore, stating that 1% TDP-43 knockdown achieves the desired sensor regulation might be misleading. Flow sorting would provide a much more accurate quantification of how subtle changes in TDP-43 protein levels track with GFP fluorescence.

      We thank the reviewer for this thoughtful suggestion. We agree that flow cytometry and sorting of GFP-positive populations would provide a higher-resolution, single-cell–level relationship between TDP-43 abundance and sensor output. Such an approach would reduce heterogeneity arising from incomplete siRNA penetrance and allow more precise quantification of how incremental changes in TDP-43 protein levels track with GFP fluorescence. In the present study, our goal was to establish proof-of-principle functionality of the CUTS circuit and to demonstrate that graded TDP-43 depletion produces a proportional sensor response at the population level. While GFP signal heterogeneity is visible in imaging panels, we hypothesize that this variability likely reflects known differences in siRNA uptake and transfection efficiency rather than instability of the circuit itself. Importantly, bulk measurements consistently demonstrated dose-dependent sensor regulation across independent experiments, supporting the robustness of the system despite cellular heterogeneity. Furthermore, we were able to quantify CUTS activation in HeLa TARDBP<sup>-/-</sup> cells. We also note that CUTS was developed as a practical tool for rapid assessment of TDP-43 LOF in standard laboratory settings. Although flow cytometry increases resolution, the ability to detect functional perturbation using bulk fluorescence measurements supports the utility of the system for routine and high-throughput applications.

      We agree that flow cytometry would provide a more refined analysis of the dynamic range and sensitivity of CUTS, particularly for defining thresholds such as minimal TDP-43 knockdown required for measurable activation. We plan to include this work in future studies. Specifically, we have implemented FACs sorting of CUTS-expressing cells in a parallel study in which we are conducting a CRISPR knockout screen to identify modifiers of TDP-43 splicing function. For this, we incorporate TDP-43 knockdown followed by FACs to stratify cells based on CUTS activation. This strategy enables direct evaluation of the relationship between the extent of TDP-43 LOF and CUTS sensor activation. These analyses are ongoing and provide a more quantitative analyses linking TDP-43 depletion to CUTS activation and address the reviewer’s concern regarding heterogeneity in bulk measurements. We plan to include this in a future study.

      (3) Some panels in the manuscript would benefit from additional clarity to make the data easier to visualize. For example, Figure 2D and 2G could be presented in a more clear manner, possibly split into additional graphs since there are too many outputs.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. In response, we have split the graphs previously shown in Figures 2D and 2G to improve clarity, as we agree that these panels contained an extensive amount of data. We Specifically split Figure 2D into two separate graphs showing TDP-43 and GFP pixel intensity from Western blots on the Y-axis, plotted against low siTDP-43 treatment on the X-axis. Please see this data as Figure 2 D and Figure 2E in the new manuscript.

      Furthermore, for Figure 2G we also split into graphs showing the fold change of mRNA for TDP-43 and the CUTS cryptic exon plotted against low siTDP-43 treatment on the X-axis. Please see this data as Figure 2 H and Figure 2I in the new manuscript. We have maintained the previous graphs in Supplementary Figure 2 to preserve the full dataset for reference.

      (4) Sup Figure 2A image panels would benefit from being labeled, its difficult to tell what antibodies or fluorophores were used. Same with Figure 4B.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s careful observation. In both figures, we are showing mCherry and GFP signals. In the revised version, we have added the corresponding labels to the side of each image for clarity. Therefore, Sup Figure 2A has been moved and is now Sup Figure 3A, while Figure 4B remains in its original configuration.

      (5) Figure 3 is an important addition to this manuscript and in general is convincing showing that TDP43 loss of function mutants can alter the sensor. However, there is still wild-type endogenous TDP-43 in these cells, and it's unclear whether the 5FL mutant is acting as a dominant negative to deplete the total TDP-43 pool, which is what the data would suggest. This could have been clarified.

      The TDP-43 5FL variant exhibits reduced RNA-binding capacity, and we previously demonstrated that impaired RNA binding promotes aberrant homotypic phase separation of TDP-43. Consistent with this mechanism, expression of RNA-binding–deficient TDP-43 variants induces the formation of nuclear “anisomes” which have been shown to sequester endogenous TDP-43 into insoluble fractions via dominant-negative mechanisms (Cohen et al., 2015; Keating et al., 2023; Mann et al., 2019; Yu et al., 2021). These findings support a model in which disruption of RNA engagement alters TDP-43 biophysical behavior and promotes functional depletion through self-association. We have expanded this mechanistic explanation in the Results section of the revised manuscript to better contextualize the behavior of the 5FL construct and its impact on endogenous TDP-43.

      (6) Additional treatment with stressors that inactivate TDP-43 could be tested in future studies.

      We appreciate this suggestion and agree with this important point. Due to the lack of methods to directly induce endogenous TDP-43 aggregation and loss of function, the use of stressors has become a partial solution to address this issue. In line with this, our group has tested several stressors in follow-up research, including sodium arsenite (NaAsO₂), puromycin, KCl, MG132, sorbitol, and tunicamycin, using HEK cells expressing the CUTS system(Xie et al., 2025). We were able to show a dose-response relationship in relative GFP intensity under these conditions, with sodium arsenite showing the strongest effect, consistent with previous reports(Huang et al., 2024). To provide additional relevant findings in the current manuscript, we expanded this analysis by testing sodium arsenite in the CUTS system while also including endogenous cryptic exons. We therefore added a new figure showing the effect of sodium arsenite on the CUTS system, including GFP intensity measurements, qPCR using CUTS cryptic exon primers, and three endogenous cryptic exon reporters (ATG4B, GPSM2, and KCNQ2).

      Overall, the authors definitely achieved their goals by developing a very sensitive readout for TDP-43 function. The results are convincing, rigorous, and support their main conclusions. There are some minor weaknesses listed above, chief of which is the use of flow sorting to improve the data analysis. But regardless, this study will have an immediate impact for those who need a rapid, reliable, and sensitive assessment of TDP-43 activity, and it will be particularly impactful once this reporter can be used in isolated primary cells (ie neurons) and in vivo in animal models. Since TDP-43 loss of function is thought to be a dominant pathological mechanism in ALS/FTD and likely many other disorders, having these types of sensors is a major boost to the field and will change our ability to see sub-threshold changes in TDP-43 function that might otherwise not be possible with current approaches.

      (7) Regarding the methods, they seem a bit sparse and would benefit from additional detail. For example, I do not see a section in the methods where microscopy images were quantified (%GFP positive cells for example). This information is important and is lacking in the current form.

      We thank the reviewers, and we add the following information in the method section: For live imaging quantification, we measured the mean GFP signal intensity for each group. The values were averaged, and the fold change was calculated and plotted. For immunofluorescent imaging, we first created maximum intensity projection images. We then applied masks to the GFP, mCherry, and Hoechst signals. By overlapping the GFP and mCherry signals, we identified the number of GFP-positive cells. Similarly, by overlapping the mCherry signal with the Hoechst mask, we identified the CUTS-expressing cells. We then calculated the ratio of GFPpositive cells to CUTS-expressing cells and plotted it as a percentage of GFP-positive cells. All analyses were performed using the Nikon NIS software. This information is included in the methods of the revised manuscript.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      The DNA and RNA binding protein TDP-43 has been pathologically implicated in a number of neurodegenerative diseases including ALS, FTD, and AD. Normally residing in the nucleus, in TDP-43 proteinopathies, TDP-43 mislocalizes to the cytoplasm where it is found in cytoplasmic aggregates. It is thought that both loss of nuclear function and cytoplasmic gain of toxic function are contributors to disease pathogenesis in TDP-43 proteinopathies. Recent studies have demonstrated that depletion of nuclear TDP-43 leads to loss of its nuclear function characterized by changes in gene expression and splicing of target mRNAs. However, to date, most readouts of TDP-43 loss of function events are dependent upon PCR-based assays for single mRNA targets. Thus, reliable and robust assays for detection of global changes in TDP-43 splicing events are lacking. In this manuscript, Xie, Merjane, Bergmann and colleagues describe a biosensor that reports on TDP-43 splicing function in real time. Overall, this is a well described unique resource that would be of high interest and utility to a number of researchers. Nonetheless, a couple of points should be addressed by the authors to enhance the overall utility and applicability of this biosensor.

      (1) While the rationale for selecting UNC13A CE as the reporting CE species is understood given the relevance to disease, could the authors please comment on whether other CE sequences would behave similarly or as robustly? This is particularly critical given the multitude of different splicing changes that can occur as a result of TDP-43 loss of function (ie cryptic exons of differing sensitivity, skiptic exons, premature polyadenylation).

      We thank the reviewer for this question regarding generalizability beyond the UNC13A CE. While UNC13A was selected due to its strong disease relevance and well-characterized sensitivity to TDP-43 loss-of-function (LOF), our platform is not intrinsically restricted to this sequence. In the manuscript, we directly compared three architectures: UNC13A-TS, CFTR-TS, and the combined CUTS sensor incorporating additional UG motif optimization. Under matched conditions in stable HEK293 lines, CUTS demonstrated superior specificity and sensitivity, exhibiting near-zero baseline activity and a proportional, log-linear response across low-dose siTDP43 (38–1200 pM) (Figures 1–2). Importantly, this head-to-head comparison demonstrates that sensor performance can be engineered and optimized beyond a single CE species.

      TDP-43 LOF is known to induce a spectrum of RNA processing defects, including cryptic exons with differing sensitivities and cell-type dependence, premature polyadenylation events (e.g., STMN2), and, under conditions of excess nuclear TDP-43, exon skipping (“skiptic exons”). This diversity supports the concept in which alternative CE elements, or other TDP-43 regulated RNAs, can be incorporated into the same sensor backbone and tuned for specific biological scenarios (cell type, specific stress responses, etc...). Consistent with this, the recently described TDP-REG system (Wilkins et al., 2024) designed and AI-generated de novo CE sequences to express reporters or gene payloads, and screened multiple candidates to identify the appropriate RNA elements required for this response. These findings demonstrate that CE sequences beyond UNC13A can serve as robust TDP-43 sensing elements when optimized. Our results complement this work by demonstrating that CUTS achieves tight baseline control and a steep dynamic range (>110,000-fold induction over baseline in HEK293 cells), while maintaining compatibility across both non-neuronal and neuronal model systems, as shown in the revised manuscript.

      In the revised manuscript, we show direct comparisons indicating that CUTS outperforms single-CE sensors such as UNC13A-TS and CFTR-TS under identical conditions. This supports independent work from other groups that alternative CE sequences can be engineered into effective sensors, depending on their paradigm and model systems. We have clarified this in the revised Discussion and now note that CUTS is adaptable to alternative CE inserts.

      (3) Could the authors provide evidence of the utility of their biosensor in disease relevant systems that do not rely on TDP-43 KD? For example, does this biosensor report on TDP-43 loss of function in C9orf72 iPSNs in a time-dependent manner? Alternatively, groups have modeled TDP-43 proteinopathy in wildtype iPSNs via MG132 treatment.

      We thank the reviewer for this important suggestion. We agree that demonstrating CUTS responsiveness in disease-relevant models independent of artificial TDP-43 knockdown would further strengthen its translational relevance. In the current study, our primary objective was to establish the sensitivity, dynamic range, and autoregulatory properties of the CUTS circuit under controlled perturbation of TDP-43 levels. siRNA-mediated depletion provides a reliable approach to establish the relationship between graded TDP-43 LOF and the CUTS sensor sensitivity/specificity. That said, CUTS is designed to detect functional TDP-43 loss irrespective of the upstream cause. As the reviewer notes, disease-relevant systems, such as C9orf72 iPSC-derived neurons and proteotoxic stress paradigms (e.g., MG132-induced impairment of TDP-43 nuclear function), are important for future studies. We are currently evaluating CUTS in iPSC-derived neuronal models of TDP-43 proteinopathy, but are optimizing the induction system, promoters, and timing. It should be noted that C9orf72 iPSC neurons do not exhibit TDP-43 LOF using standard differentiation protocols. Regarding pharmacological stress, we have shown that acute sodium arsenite treatment can activate CUTS (Figure 3). In a concurrent study under revision, we show that MG132 similarly causes TDP-43 LOF and CUTS activation (Xie et al., 2025). Notably, none of these induce complete nuclear loss of TDP-43; instead, they show nuclear TDP-43 retention or modest mislocalization. This suggests that TDP-43 LOF may also result from nuclear redistribution and dysfunction under these stress conditions, rather than from complete nuclear loss. We look forward to presenting these ongoing studies in the future.

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    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Public Review:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      The weaknesses are in the clarity and resolution of the data that forms the basis of the model. In addition to general whole embryo morphology that is used as evidence for CE defects, two forms of data are presented, co-expression and IP, as well as a strong reliance on IF of exogenously expressed proteins. Thus, it is critical that both forms of evidence be very strong and clear, and this is where there are deficiencies; 1) For vast majority of experiments general morphology and LWR was used as evidence of effects on convergent extension movements rather than keller explants or actual cell movements in the embryo. 2) the microscopy would benefit from super resolution microscopy since in many cases the differences in protein localization are not very pronounced. 3) the IP and Western analysis data often shows very subtle differences, and some cases not apparent.

      Major points.

      (1) Assessment of CE movement

      The authors conducted an analysis of the subcellular localization of PCP core proteins, including Vangl2, Pk, Fz, and Dvl, within animal cap explants (ectodermal explants). The authors primarily used the length-to-width ratio (LWR) to evaluate CE movement as a basis for their model. However, LWR can be influenced by multiple factors and is not sufficient to directly and clearly represent CE defects. While the author showed that Prickle knockdown suppresses animal cap elongation mediated by Activin treatment, they did not test their model using standard assays such as animal cap elongation or dorsal marginal zone (DMZ) Keller explants. Furthermore, although various imaging analyses were performed in Wnt11-overexpressing animal caps and DMZ explants, the Wnt11-overexpressing animal caps did not undergo CE movement. Given that this study focuses on the molecular mechanisms of Vangl2 and Ror2 regulation of Dvl2 during CE, the model should be validated in more appropriate tissues, such as DMZ explants.

      (2) Overexpression conditions

      Another concern is that most analyses were performed with overexpression conditions. PCP core proteins (Vangl2, Pk, Dvl, and Fz receptors) are known to display polarized subcellular localization in both the neural epithelium and DMZ explants (Ref: PCP and Septins govern the polarized organization of the actin cytoskeleton during convergent extension, Current Biology, 2024). However, in this study, overexpressed PCP core proteins failed to show polarized localization. Previous studies, such as those from the Wallingford lab, typically used 10-30 pg of RNA for PCP core proteins, whereas this study injected 100-500 pg, which is likely excessive and may have created artificial conditions that confound the imaging results.

      (3) Subtle and insufficient effects

      Several of the reported results show quite modest changes in imaging and immunoprecipitation analyses, which are not sufficient to strongly support the proposed molecular model. For example, most Dvl2 remained localized with Fz7 even under Vangl2 and Pk overexpression (Fig. 4). Similarly, Wnt11 overexpression only slightly reduced the association between Vangl2 and Dvl2 (Sup. Fig. 8), and the Ror2-related experiments also produced only subtle effects (Fig. 8, Sup. Fig. 15).

      We thank reviewer 1 for careful reading of our revised manuscript, and additional constructive criticisms. Since the two reviewers had divergent opinions towards our revised manuscript, we think that it might be more productive to request a Version of Record at this point, and have our proposed model debated/ tested by others in the field. We will keep the reviewer’s suggestions in mind while design ongoing studies. We would like to address the criticisms collectively below:

      (1) The primary goal of our current manuscript is to build a mechanistic model for non-canonical Wnt signaling through elucidating the functional relationships between Dvl, Vangl, PK and Ror during CE. They each have been studied extensively in prior literature using DMZ injected embryos, and DMZ, Keller and animal cap explants, so there is little doubt that the reduced LWR following their over-expression or knockdown in DMZ is due to disruption of CE. In the context of our study in the current manuscript, we primarily performed their co-injections in different combinations to differentiate synergistic vs. antagonistic relationship, and in the majority cases we relied on epistatsis to draw conclusions (e.g. Fig. 1; Fig. 2h, I; Suppl. Fig. 6; Suppl. Fig. 14). Nevertheless, we did follow the reviewer’s suggestion and used animal cap elongation as an additional assay to confirm that Pk and Vangl2 did synergize to disrupt CE, and their synergy could be blocked by Dvl2 co-overexpression; the new data is added to Fig. 1 (Fig. 1h, h’). Therefore, given the prior literature, our new animal cap explant data, and the specific scope of our current study, we feel that the LWR measurement is a reasonable assay to determine CE phenotype in this manuscript. We fully agree with the reviewer that our model will need to be tested at the cellular level through live imaging of DMZ explants; it is indeed the direction of our future study, but is beyond the scope of the current manuscript.

      (2) A salient feature of non-canonical Wnt signaling is that loss or over-expression of any components can often cause identical CE defects at the tissue/ embryo level. We used many co-injection experiments to demonstrate that this is due, at least in part, to a counterbalance between Dvl/Ror and Vangl/PK (e.g. Fig. 1; Fig. 2h, I; Suppl. Fig. 6; Suppl. Fig. 14). It is in this context that we planned the imaging and biochemical experiments to determine the possible molecular mechanisms underlying their functional interaction, and we feel that the moderate over-expression used is reasonable in this case for us to build the first integrated model. We do plan to test our model using lower expression in the future. To acknowledge the limitation of our study, we also added the following sentences in the Discussion:

      “We acknowledge, however, that our model explains primarily the potential molecular actions underlying the regulation of CE at the tissue level. Whether and how our model may explain the cellular behavior during CE, such as polarized remodeling of cell junction or extension of cell protrusions, will require further study.”

      (3) The Wnt11 induced reduction of Dvl2-Vangl2 co-IP (Suppl. Fig. 8, 15) may be moderate, but is statistically significant and reproducible, and we have reported similar findings in two other publications (DOI: 10.1093/hmg/ddx095; DOI: 10.1038/s41467-025-57658-0). Given the limitation of co-IP, we had to rely on high level over-expression to make the experiments feasible. We are building proximity based assays such as NanoBRET, and plan to verify the result with lower level expression in the future.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      We thank the reviewer for the encouraging comments, and the suggestion to clarify the description related to Suppl. Fig. 15. We made revision according to the reviewer’s suggestion, and added Suppl. Fig. 16 to further examine the effect of Ror2 knockdown on the steady state interaction between Dvl2 and Vangl2 using imaging approach.

    1. Author Response:

      Public Review:

      On behalf of all authors I would like to thank the reviewers for highly constructive and helpful comments, which, once addressed fully, will make the paper stronger and more useful as a tools and resources contribution.

      Besides addressing all minor issues that were pointed out by the reviewers, we see three main lines of changes we will need to pursue in order to address all major concerns. We plan to do all of these as fast as possible. Given that new alignments, segmentation and tracing is needed, this will take between one and three months.

      (1) Availability of code, software documentation and accessibility of pipeline. 

      Both reviewers and the editorial summary agreed that we need to improve the availability of our code, provide more instructions and examples of how to use the code, and make our methods more reusable to outsiders. To achieve this we will follow the suggestions made by the reviewers, in particular the list presented by reviewer 1 (point three of weaknesses in the public review).

      We firstly would like to apologize for the faulty link to the SegToPCG (https://github.com/Heinzelab/SegToPCG) repository (the correct name and link is: LSDtoPCG and https://github.com/Heinze-lab/LSDtoPCG) as well as the missing code in the https://github.com/Heinze-lab/synful_312 repository; these issues have already been fixed and will be included in an updated bioRxiv version.

      Second, we will generate an overarching umbrella page that will serve as a go-to site for any user who would like to implement our pipeline. To enable implementation, we will expand the documentation, provide detailed instructions, and include an example dataset with these instructions.

      (2) Quantification of analysis steps, including segmentation, alignment and manual tracing, to validate our claims of increased efficiency and transferability across species.

      As for point 1, both reviewers as well as the editorial summary highlighted the need for more comprehensive quantification of the workflow, especially with respect to segmentation quality as well as time investment into manual tracing and high resolution alignments. In particular, these data should validate the transferability of the segmentation models across species, and support the claims made about the time savings resulting from using our multiresolution workflow compared to a whole sample synaptic resolution approach.

      To this aim, we will generate all analyses according to the reviewer suggestions and incorporate the resulting data in new figures and tables. To make the data fully comparable across species, we will apply the latest version of our alignment and segmentation scripts to at least one high resolution data stack of each species, quantify manual tracing of a comparable, defined set of neurons in each species, and perform VOI analyses of each species segmentation against manually traced neurons in identically sized testing volumes in each dataset. Additionally, we will proof-read identical branches of homologous neurons in each species and quantify the required number of edits from raw segmentation output to completion.

      As the segmentation pipeline has evolved over the last years, a fair comparison between all datasets requires fresh analysis based on the latest version of our machine learning models (cannot be done with existing data) and will therefore take a few weeks of time.

      (3) Clarification of aims for multi-resolution pipeline and how projectomes and connectomes inform each other

      Reviewer 2 highlighted that there is not sufficient clarity about the aims of combining projectome and connectome. Judging from the reviewer comment, we might have inadvertently left the impression that we aimed at predicting a connectome from projectome data, by using spatial proximity of neurons as a proxy for connectivity. In fact, our data show that this is not possible, and that projection level data cannot predict connectivity. For instance, in the head direction system, the projectivity data suggests identical circuits for bees and flies (except at the edges of the ring), but connectivity data shows that the components of the ring attractor circuit are forming circuits that are distinctly different between the species (despite the same neurons with the same projection patterns being involved).

      What we aim to do is slightly different. We define global patterns of information flow using the projectome, and then define circuits in a part of this global circuit at synaptic level. Then, we extrapolate the global connectivity by assuming that the circuits identified in one or two computational units (columns) are repeated in each column. This rests on the assumption that the same neurons form the same connections in each repeated module, as long as the cellular repertoire is identical (verified by the projectome), but does not use proximity data to predict connectivity. This method thus only applies to brain regions that consist of repeated computational modules, i.e. where we can assume that knowing the connectivity in one of them allows extrapolation to the entire brain region. While this is a simplification, the Drosophila CX has in principle confirmed this assumption.

      We will generate a new figure in which we illustrate the process of combining local connectomes and global projectomes using examples from our data, but illustrating this schematically also for other brain regions, e.g. the insect optic lobe or the cerebral cortex of mammals. We will also carefully rewrite the relevant text passages to avoid misunderstandings.

      Overall, we would like to thank the reviewers again for their thorough and detailed comments, which will help to make our connectomics workflow more accessible and reproducible.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      (1) The sample size for the ex vivo electrophysiology is small. Given the difficulty and complexity of the preparation, this is understandable. However, a larger sample size would have strengthened the authors' conclusions.

      We appreciate that the sample size is small, but this was limited by the technical difficulty and relatively low yield with this preparation. From a total of 16 experiments, we were able to obtain successful recordings in 6 cases, and these provided the characterisation of the 11 cells reported in Figure 4. We believe that this is sufficient to “strongly suggest” that the cells with dense Trpm8 input correspond to cold-selective cells. We have toned down the statements in the abstract (line 23) and the Results section (line 246).

      (2) The authors used tdTomato expression to identify brain targets innervated by these coldselective lamina I projection neurons. Since tdTomato is a soluble fluorescent protein that fills the entire cell, using synaptophysin reporters (e.g., synaptophysin-GFP) would have been more convincing in revealing the synaptic targets of these projection neurons.

      As the Reviewer says, tdTomato labelling fills the entire cell. However, examination at high magnification reveals numerous varicosities along the labelled axons, presumably corresponding to synaptic boutons. We now illustrate this in Figure 6–figure supplement 2F.

      In addition, we have provided further evidence that these varicosities correspond to (glutamatergic) synaptic boutons by immunostaining sections through the LPB for the postsynaptic density protein Homer1, and showing Homer1 puncta apposed to varicosities (Figure 6–figure supplement 2 G,H). This new information now appears in the Results section (lines 374-380).

      (3) The summary cartoon shown in Figure 7 can be misleading because this study did not determine whether these cold - selective lamina I projection neurons have collateral branches to multiple brain targets or if there are anatomical subtypes that may project exclusively to specific targets. For example, a recent study (Ding et al., Neuron, 2025) demonstrated that there are PBN-projecting spinal neurons that do not project to other rostral brain areas. Furthermore, based on the authors' bulk labeling experiments, the three main brain targets are NTS, PBNrel, and cPAG. The VPL projection is very sparse and almost negligible.

      We agree that branches to different brain nuclei may originate from specific subsets of ALS3 neurons and this is now stated in the figure legend. It is true that there are projections to other brain regions (including NTS). These are not included in the diagram, because their circuitry in relation to cold-sensing is less well understood. Although the projection to VPL from lumbar cord is sparse, this is likely to be explained by the very low proportion of lamina I projection neurons with axons that reach the thalamus. Our retrograde tracing data (e.g. Figure 6-figure supplement 4) had already revealed many cells in the C7 segment that were densely coated with Trpm8 afferents and retrogradely labelled from the lateral thalamus. We have carried out additional experiments in which AAV1.Cre<sup>ON</sup>.td Tomato was injected into the cervical enlargement of Calb1<sup>Cre</sup> mice.This resulted in much denser labelling in the VPL and PoT thalamic nuclei, supporting the suggestion that cold-selective lamina I neurons in the cervical enlargement project to these nuclei. This is now described in lines 381-387 and illustrated in Figure 6–figure supplement 3.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      (1) In the characterization of recorded neurons in close contact or in the absence of this contact with TRPM8 afferents, the number of recorded neurons is relatively low. In addition, the strength of thermal stimuli is not very well controlled, preventing a more precise characterization of the connectivity.

      We fully accept that the sample size is small (please see response to Reviewer 1 above). We also accept that the thermal stimulation was not that well controlled. Unfortunately, commercially available probes for controlling skin temperature are too large to apply to the skin in this preparation. For this reason, we have used application of hot and cold saline, as in our previous studies with this preparation.

      (2) The authors could provide some sense of the effort needed to record from the 6 coldactivated neurons described. How many preparations were needed, etc?

      We now state that 6 out of 16 experiments resulted in successful recordings for this part of the study (lines 858-861).

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      (1) While anatomical evidence for direct synaptic connectivity between Trpm8+ afferents and lamina I projection neurons is compelling, a physiological demonstration of strict monosynaptic transmission is not shown. The conclusion that these inputs are exclusively monosynaptic should be toned down. Similarly, the statement that "Lamina I ALS neurons that are surrounded by Trpm8 afferents are cold-selective" should also be toned down as only a few neurons have been tested and it cannot be excluded that other neurons with similar characteristics may be polymodal.

      We have now carried out optogenetic experiments by expressing channelrhodopsin in Trpm8 afferents and retrogradely labelling ALS neurons with tdTomato. This has allowed us to directly demonstrate monosynaptic input. This is described in the Results section (lines 180-202) and the Methods section has been updated. As noted above, we have toned down the statement about lamina I neurons surrounded by Trpm8 afferents being coldselective (line 246).

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) The patch innervation of Trpm8+ sensory neurons in lamina I of the spinal cord dorsal horn is interesting. Do they occupy specific areas within lamina I along the mediolateral axis, or are their placements random? Quantifying the distribution of these terminals in lamina I might be worthwhile.

      Although we have not studied the mediolateral distribution systematically, it appears that the locations of the patches in the mediolateral axis is random, and they could be seen in medial, central and lateral parts of lamina I (as shown in Figure 2). We have added a comment to this effect in the Results section (lines 114-116). Quantifying Trpm8 terminals would be very labour-intensive, and we do not feel that this would be of great benefit.

      (2) Quantification for the percentage of Trpm8+ boutons contacting Phox2a+ neurons that are vGlut3+

      The main purpose of this part of the study was to provide a possible explanation for the finding by Li et al (2015) that some lamina I cells were associated with Vglut3-

      immunoreactive boutons. We found that the percentages of Trpm8+ boutons that contained Vglut3 varied considerably from cell to cell, and this is now stated in the text (lines 133134). However, knowing exact proportions was not an important aspect of the study, we have therefore not carried out a detailed analysis.

      (3) Quantification for the percentage of PBN projections neurons densely innervated by Trpm8+ axons that are calb1+.

      As requested, we have carried out immunohistochemistry to determine the proportion of lamina I ALS neurons with dense Trpm8 input that are calbindin-immunoreactive. We examined 31 neurons from 3 different mice and found that all but 4 (i.e. 87%) were immunoreactive. This is now described (lines 287-293) and illustrated (Figure 5–figure supplement 1). We have now put the electrophysiological characterisation that was in this figure into a separate supplement (Figure 5–figure supplement 2).

      (4) It might be helpful to confirm the brain projection targets of Cal1b+ lamina 1 projection neurons using AAV1-CreON-Synaptophysin-GFP (or other fluorescent proteins) injections

      Please see our response to Public review Reviewer 1 comment 2 above. We have provided further evidence that the brain regions that received input from the Calb1+ cells contain axonal boutons (lines 374-380 and Figure 6–figure supplement 2F-H).

      (5) Figure 6 - Figure Supplements 3 and 4 are duplicated

      We apologise for this duplication, which was made in error in the version originally submitted to eLife. This has now been corrected.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) As mentioned, in the characterization of recorded neurons in close contact or in the absence of this contact with TRPM8 afferents, the number of recorded neurons is relatively low, some recorded in current clamp, a few in voltage clamp. This prevents any solid statistical evaluation of the findings

      Please see response to response to the first point made by Reviewer 1 in the Public reviews. As stated above, we have toned down the statement about the relationship between cells with dense Trpm8 input and cold-selective cells (line 246).

      (2) In addition, the strength of thermal stimuli is not very well controlled, preventing a more precise characterization of the synaptic connection between afferents and ALS projection neurons.

      Please see our response to the Public review comment made by this Reviewer.

      (3) Line 35. In the description of the anterolateral system and the effects of lesions, the species(s) should be specified since rodents and humans have a different anatomical distribution of spinal tracts.

      We now state that while ALS axons ascend in the anterolateral quadrant in humans, they are located in the dorsolateral white matter in rodents (lines 40-42)

      (4) To describe the semi-intact preparation used for recording and stimulation from the periphery, the authors cite a study by Julien Allard (reference 25). However, that study describes an in vivo preparation. I believe there is an error in the citation.

      We thank the Reviewer for pointing this out – it has now been corrected.

      (5) Line 726. Dorsal horn recordings were performed at 25 ºC. What is the temperature of the skin? How would this low temperature affect the excitability of cold afferents and their axons? Perhaps a comment about this issue would be appropriate.

      The skin temperature in this preparation is the same as that of the spinal cord (25 °C). At this temperature, Trpm8 afferents would be active, but are likely to have adapted during the course of the experiment. Since this temperature is below 37 °C, it is likely that the conduction velocity of these afferents will be slower than in the in vivo situation. We have added a comment to this effect (lines 818-821).

      (6) Line 401. The authors could not detect Trpv1-immunoreactivity in the central terminals of Trpm8Flp;RCE:FRT mice. Could they detect Trpv1 immunoreactivity in any central terminal? Do they have positive evidence that their immunostaining worked?

      Trpv1 was readily detected in central terminals with the Trpv1 antibody. An example showing lack of detectable Trpv1-immunoreactivity in GFP-labelled (Trpm8-expressing) afferents is now shown in Figure 2–figure supplement 1K-M.

      (7) Line 437. What is the expected anterograde transport time for YFP from the lumbar cord to the brainstem? Are 2-3 weeks not sufficient based on the literature? I noticed the authors are using longer survival times after intraspinal injections

      In preliminary experiments for a previous study Substance P-expressing excitatory interneurons in the mouse superficial dorsal horn provide a propriospinal input to the lateral spinal nucleus | Brain Structure and Function we had found that a 2 week survival time after injection of AAV1.Cre<sup>ON</sup>.GFP into the lumbar spinal cord of Tac1<sup>Cre</sup> mice was not sufficient to label axons in the brain, although at 4 weeks we saw brain labelling. We have also found that extending survival times from 4 to 6 weeks gives greatly improved labelling, especially in the thalamus.

      (8) Figure 5A. Many of the labelled cells appear to have the somas in the white matter, which makes little sense. It seems the reference section to plot the cells is not optimal

      The placement of cells is accurate. Many spinal projection neurons are present outside the main region of grey matter (i.e. laminae I-X). These cells are found in 2 main regions – the lateral spinal nucleus (LSN) and the lateral reticulated part of lamina V. These two regions are intermediate between grey and white matter – i.e. they contain scattered cell bodies amongst a dense collection of axons. For this reason they appear outside the grey/white border as it is conventionally shown on diagrams of this type. This has been reported in numerous studies, e.g. see Figure 2 in The cells of origin of the spinothalamic tract of the rat: a quantitative reexamination - PubMed.

      (9) Recent transcriptomic studies suggest the presence of more than one subpopulation of Trpm8-expressing DRG or trigeminal neurons. It is unclear to what extent the Trpm8-Flp line is capturing this diversity.

      We are aware that there are at least 3 transcriptomic subsets of Trpm8-expressing primary sensory neurons. However, we are not aware of any suitable molecular markers that would allow us to discriminate between them, and therefore address this point.

      (10) Could the patchy distribution of Trpm8 afferents in lamina I reflect incomplete recombination; the empty spaces could be occupied by unmarked afferents?

      In theory it could, but this seems unlikely. The Trpm8<sup>Flp</sup> line (crossed with RCE:FRT) captures ~83% of Trpm8-positive cell bodies, and it seems very unlikely that the remaining 17% of Trpm8-expressing afferents would fill the spaces between GFP bundles that we see in lamina I. This is now stated in the Results section (lines 116-120).

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) It would be a nice addition to the validation of the Trpm8-Flp line to specify what ages (if multiple) have been analysed and whether there are any differences. In addition, is labelling different at different levels of the spinal cord, and is there any labeling in supraspinal regions?

      The tissue used for this part of the study was obtained from mice aged 5-9 weeks and this is now stated (lines 78-79). We did not observe any differences with age, but we did not look at this in detail. Labelling was similar at different levels of the spinal cord, and this is stated (lines 108-109). We have added a brief account of the distribution of GFP labelling in the brain (lines 140-144).

      (2) Line 169. It is not clear how ALS neurons are labeled. It is explained in the material and methods (I believe it is AAV9.mCherry into the LPB or CVLM). Although I could not find a mention of a tdTomato AAV, maybe I missed it. In any case, it would be great to have the experimental strategy briefly explained in the text. For the same reason, I would recommend moving Figure 4 Supplement 1A and 1B schematics to the main figure, very helpful for understanding the experiment.

      We thank the Reviewer for this suggestion. We now explain in the Results section how the ALS neurons were labelled (lines 209-212), and as the Reviewer recommends we have put the schematic diagrams from Figure 4–figure supplement 1 into the main Figure. As noted in the text, the tdTomato labelling resulted from injection of an AAV coding for Cre into mice that contained the Ai9 allele. We have also updated the descriptions of brain injections in the Methods section to cover the new experiments (optogenetics, and calbindin immunohistochemistry).

      (3) Line 184. "Figure 4" would be good to specify the panels; I believe it should be 4A-C. Same for line 194, 4D-F?

      We apologise that this was omitted from the original version – we have now specified the panels.

      (4) Line 179. It would be great to specifiy in the text and figures the temperature used for hot and warm water. In addition, would the responses be different using different temperatures? Can you test ramps? These would go a great way to compare with responses shown in vivo by Ran and colleagues.

      We now specify the hot and cold saline temperatures used to stimulate the skin in the semiintact preparation in the legend for Figure 4 and in the Results section (lines 222-223). As noted above, it is difficult to use more accurate thermal stimuli in this preparation. Please see response to Reviewer 2 public comment 1.

      (5) Figure 4-Figure supplement 1F. It looks like these are very slow responses (1 sec?) for monosynaptic connectivity.

      In this figure (now part 1D) the action potential frequency was determined from counts of APs in 1 sec bins, and this is now stated in the legend. This might have given the impression of slow responses.

      (6) Line 203. I would tone down the statement, as only 6 cells "that were clearly associated with numerous GFP-labelled afferents" have been tested. Thus, it cannot be excluded that other cells with similar anatomical characteristics may also respond to other stimuli

      As requested, we have toned down this statement (line 246).

      (7) Line 230. Here AAV11.CreON.td Tomato is used, in previous retrograde experiments, AAV9 has been used (Figure 4), why the switch to 11? Is the tropism the same? Is it possible that because you are using a different serotype, you are targeting different neurons?

      We have found that although AAV9 coding for fluorescent proteins is very good for retrograde labelling, AAV9 coding for Cre-dependent constructs (e.g. AAV.Cre<sup>ON</sup>.tdTomato) gives very poor recombination in spinal projection neurons, for reasons that we do not understand. We recently became aware of the AAV11 serotype, which was recommended as being suitable for retrograde transport AAV11 enables efficient retrograde targeting of projection neurons and enhances astrocyte-directed transduction | Nature Communications. We have found that this works very well for labelling ALS cells throughout the spinal cord when using Cre-dependent constructs. We have added a reference to this paper at this point in the text. We are not able to say whether tropism is the same or different, but in each case many ALS neurons (including many of those in lamina I) are captured.

      (8) Line 234. Is there any positional organization for the "tdTomato-labelled cells densely innervated byTrpm8 afferents", do they preferentially cluster in some position of lamina I?

      These cells are found throughout the mediolateral extent of the dorsal horn, and this is now stated (lines 279-280).

      (9) Line 237. The actual number of cells/mm would be informative.

      This would be difficult to estimate, as the sections were cut in the horizontal plane, which means that lamina I can appear on a variable number of sections.

      (10) Line 249. From the figures, the action potentials of the Calb+ neurons seem to have a delayed onset (at the end of cold saline treatment, Figure 5, Supplement 1l) compared to lamina I ALS neurons recorded in Figure 4, Supplement 1f. If real, it is an interesting difference in the time-course of response that could indicate different coding properties e.g., response to cooling (general neurons) vs. response to absolute temperature (calb + neurons).

      As for Fig 4-figure supplement 4 (see response to point #5 above), action potential frequency was determined from APs counted in 1 sec bins, and this is now stated in the legend.

      (11) Figure 7. In the model, the disynaptic pathway should also be shown

      We have added a comment to the legend stating that there may also be indirect (“polysynaptic”) input from Trpm8 afferents to ALS3 neurons.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      CCK is the most abundant neuropeptide in the brain, and many studies have investigated the role of CCK and inhibitory CCK interneurons in modulating neural circuits, especially in the hippocampus. The manuscript presents interesting questions regarding the role of excitatory CCK+ neurons in the hippocampus, which has been much less studied compared to the well-known roles of inhibitory CCK neurons in regulating network function. The authors adopt several methods, including transgenic mice and viruses, optogenetics, chemogenetics, RNAi, and behavioral tasks to explore these less-studied roles of excitatory CCK neurons in CA3. They find that the excitatory CCK neurons are involved in hippocampal-dependent tasks such as spatial learning and memory formation, and that CCK-knockdown impairs these tasks.

      However, these questions are very dependent on ensuring that the study is properly targeting excitatory CCK neurons (and thus their specific contributions to behavior). There needs to be much more characterization of the CCK transgenic mice and viruses to confirm the targeting. Without this, it is unclear whether the study is looking at excitatory CCK neurons or a more general heterogeneous CCK neuron population.

      Strengths:

      This field has focused mainly on inhibitory CCK+ interneurons and their role in network function and activity, and thus, this manuscript raises interesting questions regarding the role of excitatory CCK+ neurons, which have been much less studied.

      Weaknesses:

      (1a) This manuscript is dependent on ensuring that the study is indeed investigating the role of excitatory CCK-expressing neurons themselves and their specific contribution to behavior. There needs to be much more characterization of the CCK-expressing mice (crossed with Ai14 or transduced with various viruses) to confirm the excitatory-cell targeting. Without this, it is unclear whether the study is looking at excitatory CCK neurons or a more general heterogeneous CCK neuron population.

      Thank you for this constructive comment. Indeed, the current study lacks comprehensive strategies to unequivocally distinguish excitatory CCK neurons from heterogeneous CCK neuronal populations. Nevertheless, we provide multiple lines of evidence supporting the distribution of CaMKIIα/Vglut1-expressing CCK<sup>+</sup> neurons in the hippocampus (Figure 1F), using complementary approaches including transgenic mouse models as well as viral and antibody-based labeling (Figure 1A, Figure 1H-I). In addition, we demonstrate that 635 nm light reliably evokes field excitatory postsynaptic potentials (fEPSPs) at CA3-Schaffer collateral synapses expressing DIO-CaMKIIα-ChrimsonR in vitro (Figure 2A-F). Importantly, these light-evoked excitatory synaptic responses are abolished by AMPA and NMDA receptor antagonists (CNQX and APV), confirming the excitatory nature of the DIO-CaMKIIα-ChrimsonR-expressing synapses. To demonstrate the future works that can further support our findings and conclusions, we have added the strategies that can be conducted in the Discussion section in the revision:

      “Due to technical limitations at the current stage, we were unable to perform whole-cell recordings or pharmacological manipulations using CCK receptor antagonists. In future studies, the application of these approaches to directly record and selectively block EPSPs from excitatory CCK neurons in the hippocampus will further strengthen and validate our conclusions.” (Line 265 - line 269 in the revision).

      (1b) For the experiments that use a virus with the CCK-IRES-Cre mouse, there is no information or characterization on how well the virus targets excitatory CCK-expressing neurons. (Additionally, it has been reported that with CaMKIIa-driven protein expression, using viruses, can be seen in both pyramidal and inhibitory cells.

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful comment regarding the specificity of viral targeting in CCK-IRES-Cre mice.

      To address this concern, we performed additional characterization of viral expression in CA3. We found that DIO-CaMKIIα-mCherry expression showed a high degree of colocalization with CaMKIIα immunoreactivity, indicating preferential targeting of excitatory neurons (sFigure 1A-B; sFigure 2A-B; sFigure 3A-B). We showed an example to confirmed the high specificity of the AAV for infecting the excitatory CCK neurons in CA3 area.

      Besides, we acknowledge prior reports showing that CaMKIIα-driven viral expression can, in some cases, be detected in a small subset of inhibitory neurons. However, because CA3-Schaffer collateral projections to CA1 arise exclusively from excitatory CA3 pyramidal neurons, any potential expression in inhibitory CCK<sup>+</sup> interneurons are unlikely to directly contribute to the recorded CA1 synaptic responses in our electrophysiological experiments. That said, we cannot fully exclude the possibility that a minor population of inhibitory CCK⁺ neurons could indirectly modulate CA3 pyramidal neuron activity via local circuit mechanisms, particularly in experiments involving optogenetic manipulation or shRNA expression. We now explicitly acknowledge this limitation in the revised manuscript:

      “Importantly, to further improve cell-type specificity, we propose an intersectional genetic strategy using CCK-IRES-Cre × VGlut1-Flp mice combined with a Cre-On/Flp-On (Con/Fon) AAV, which would restrict expression exclusively to excitatory CCK-expressing neurons and eliminate potential contributions from inhibitory CCK<sup>+</sup> cells. This approach will be implemented in future studies to refine circuit specificity.” (Line 269 - line 273 in the revision).

      (2) The methods and figure legends are extremely sparse, leading to many questions regarding methodology and accuracy. More details would be useful in evaluating the tools and data. More details would be useful in evaluating the tools and data. Additionally, further quantification would be useful-e.g. in some places, only % values are noted, or only images are presented.

      Thank you for these constructive comments. We have expanded the methodological descriptions in both the Methods section and the figure legends to provide sufficient detail for evaluating the experimental tools and data accuracy. In addition, we have added quantitative analyses where previously only representative images or percentage values were shown. Specifically, quantification has now been included for each AAV condition in the corresponding figures in the revised manuscript.

      (3) It is unclear whether the reduced CCK expression is correlated, or directly causing the impairments in hippocampal function. Does the CCK-shRNA have any additional detrimental effects besides affecting CCK-expression (e.g., is the CCK-shRNA also affecting some other essential (but not CCK-related) aspect of the neuron itself?)? Is there any histology comparison between the shRNA and the scrambled shRNA?

      Recent studies from our lab demonstrated that knockout the CCK gene expression significantly attenuates the hippocampal-dependent spatial learning and CA3-CA1 LTP, indicating CCK plays a critical role in modulating the hippocampal functions[1,2]. Additionally, CCK-shRNA or CCK-scramble did not significantly affect the excitatory synaptic transmission in the CA3-CA1 projections, hinting that CCK-shRNA may exhibits no obvious adverse effect on other neural components.

      Finally, we have provided the histology comparison between the shRNA and the scrambled shRNA regrading the expression level of the CCK protein (Pro-CCK) in the revision. Our result shows that CCK-shRNA (left panel) significantly reduced CCK expression in CA3<sup>CCK</sup>-positive neurons compared with the CCK-Scramble group (right panel).

      Citation:

      (1) Wang, J. L., Sha, X. Y., Shao, Y., Zhang, Z. H., Huang, S. M., Lin, H., ... & Sun, J. P. (2025). Elucidating pathway-selective biased CCKBR agonism for Alzheimer’s disease treatment. Cell.

      (2) Zhang, N., Sui, Y., Jendrichovsky, P., Feng, H., Shi, H., Zhang, X., ... & He, J. (2024). Cholecystokinin B receptor agonists alleviates anterograde amnesia in cholecystokinin-deficient and aged Alzheimer's disease mice. Alzheimer's research & therapy, 16(1), 109.

      https://doi.org/10.7554/eLife.109001.1.sa2

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this study, the authors have demonstrated, through a comprehensive approach combining electrophysiology, chemogenetics, fiber photometry, RNA interference, and multiple behavioral tasks, the necessity of projections from CCK+ CAMKIIergic neurons in the hippocampal CA3 region to the CA1 region for regulating spatial memory in mice. Specifically, authors have shown that CA3-CCK CAMKIIergic neurons are selectively activated by novel locations during a spatial memory task. Furthermore, authors have identified the CA3-CA1 pathway as crucial for this spatial working memory function, thereby suggesting a pivotal role for CA3 excitatory CCK neurons in influencing CA1 LTP. The data presented appear to be well-organized and comprehensive.

      Strengths:

      (1) This work combined various methods to validate the excitatory CCK neurons in the CA3 area; these data are convincing and solid.

      (2) This study demonstrated that the CA3-CCK CAMKIIergic neurons are involved in the spatial memory tasks; these are interesting findings, which suggest that these neurons are important targets for manipulating the memory-related diseases.

      (3) This manuscript also measured the endogenous CCK from the CA3-CCK CAMKIIergic neurons; this means that CCK can be released under certain conditions.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The authors do not mention which receptors of the CCK modulate these processes.

      We appreciate the reviewer for raising this important question. Based on our recent work, CCK-B receptors are the primary neural components mediating CCK functions in the hippocampus at both the synaptic plasticity and behavioral levels (Su et al., 2023; Zhang et al., 2024; Wang et al., 2025). To clarify this mechanism, we have added the following content to the revised manuscript:

      “Based on our recent work, CCK signaling in the hippocampus is predominantly mediated by CCK-B receptors, which play a critical role in regulating synaptic plasticity and spatial memory-related behaviors.” (Line 105 - line 106 in the revision).

      (2) This author does not test the CCK gene knockout mice or the CCK receptor knockout mice in these neural processes.

      Thank you for this insightful comment. We previously tested these experiments in an earlier study. Our results showed that high-frequency electrical stimulation failed to induce significant LTP in the CA3-CA1 pathway in both CCK gene knockout (CCK-KO) mice and CCK-B receptor knockout (CCK-BR-KO) mice in vitro (Su et al., 2023; Zhang et al., 2024; Wang et al., 2025). These findings indicate that CCK mediates its synaptic effects predominantly through CCK-B receptors in the CA3-CA1 pathway. Accordingly, we have added this description to the revised manuscript.

      “Additionally, high-frequency electrical stimulation fails to induce LTP in the CA3-CA1 pathway in both CCK-KO and CCK-BR-KO mice, indicating that CCK-dependent synaptic plasticity in this circuit is primarily mediated by CCK-B receptors.” (Line 170 - line 173 in the revision).

      (3) The author does not test the source of CCK release during the behavioral tasks.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. In our previous work, we directly monitored CCK release in the hippocampus during an object-exploration task using a GPCR-based CCK-BR sensor combined with fiber photometry (Su et al., 2023). During object exploration, we observed a rapid and robust increase in CCK-BR sensor fluorescence, indicating activity-dependent CCK release in the hippocampus. Based on these findings, we deduced that hippocampal CCK release plays a critical role in hippocampus-dependent behavioral tasks.

      We acknowledge that hippocampal neurons receive CCK-positive projections from multiple brain regions, making it technically challenging to isolate and monitor the precise source of CCK release in the CA1 area during behavioral tasks in vivo. One potential strategy to address this limitation is selective overexpression of CCK in CA3 neurons (e.g., AAV-CCK delivery), followed by assessment of CCK-BR sensor responses during hippocampal-dependent behaviors. We have added this discussion to the revised manuscript to clarify the source and functional relevance of CCK release during behavioral tasks.

      “Besides, using a GPCR-based CCK-BR sensor combined with fiber photometry, our previous work demonstrated rapid, activity-dependent CCK release in the hippocampus during object-exploratory behavior, supporting a functional role for hippocampal CCK signaling in cognitive tasks (Su et al., 2023). Given that hippocampal neurons receive CCK-positive projections from multiple brain regions, it remains technically challenging to precisely identify the cellular source of CCK release in CA1 during behavior. Future studies employing selective CCK overexpression in CA3 neurons, together with CCK-BR sensor recordings, may help further delineate the contribution of CA3-derived CCK to hippocampal-dependent behaviors.” (Line 313 - line 321 in the revision).

      Citation:

      (1) Wang, J. L., Sha, X. Y., Shao, Y., Zhang, Z. H., Huang, S. M., Lin, H., ... & Sun, J. P. (2025). Elucidating pathway-selective biased CCKBR agonism for Alzheimer’s disease treatment. Cell.

      (2) Zhang, N., Sui, Y., Jendrichovsky, P., Feng, H., Shi, H., Zhang, X., ... & He, J. (2024). Cholecystokinin B receptor agonists alleviates anterograde amnesia in cholecystokinin-deficient and aged Alzheimer's disease mice. Alzheimer's research & therapy, 16(1), 109.

      (3) Su, J., Huang, F., Tian, Y., Tian, R., Qianqian, G., Bello, S. T., ... & He, J. (2023). Entorhinohippocampal cholecystokinin modulates spatial learning by facilitating neuroplasticity of hippocampal CA3-CA1 synapses. Cell Reports, 42(12).

      https://doi.org/10.7554/eLife.109001.1.sa1

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Fengwen Huang et al. used multiple neuroscience techniques (transgenetic mouse, immunochemistry, bulk calcium recording, neural sensor, hippocampal-dependent task, optogenetics, chemogenetics, and interfer RNA technique) to elucidate the role of the excitatory cholecystokinin-positive pyramidal neurons in the hippocampus in regulating the hippocampal functions, including navigation and neuroplasticity.

      Strengths:

      (1) The authors provided the distribution profiles of excitatory cholecystokinin in the dorsal hippocampus via the transgenetic mice (Ai14::CCK Cre mice), immunochemistry, and retrograde AAV.

      (2) The authors used the neural sensor and light stimulation to monitor the CCK release from the CA3 area, indicating that CCK can be secreted by activation of the excitatory CCK neurons.

      (3) The authors showed that the activity of the excitatory CCK neurons in CA3 is necessary for navigation learning.

      (4) The authors demonstrated that inhibition of the excitatory CCK neurons and knockdown of the CCK gene expression in CA3 impaired the navigation learning and the neuroplasticity of CA3-CA1 projections.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The causal relationship between navigation learning and CCK secretion?

      Thank you for pointing out this important issue. Previous studies have shown that CCK can be rapidly secreted during exploratory behaviors, as detected by the CCK-BR sensor. In parallel, CCK-positive neurons have been demonstrated to play a critical role in the precise execution of hippocampus-dependent spatial learning. Together, these findings suggest that exploratory behavior induces CCK secretion, which in turn contributes to the accuracy of hippocampal-dependent learning and memory processes. Based on this evidence, we propose that CCK secretion serves as a functional link between behavioral exploration and spatial learning. We have added these explanations in the revised manuscript to better clarify the causal relationship between behavioral exploration and CCK secretion:

      “Besides, using a GPCR-based CCK-BR sensor combined with fiber photometry, our previous work demonstrated rapid, activity-dependent CCK release in the hippocampus during object-exploratory behavior, supporting a functional role for hippocampal CCK signaling in cognitive tasks (Su et al., 2023). Given that hippocampal neurons receive CCK-positive projections from multiple brain regions, it remains technically challenging to precisely identify the cellular source of CCK release in CA1 during behavior. Future studies employing selective CCK overexpression in CA3 neurons, together with CCK-BR sensor recordings, may help further delineate the contribution of CA3-derived CCK to hippocampal-dependent behaviors.” (Line 313 - line 321 in the revision)

      (2) The effect of overexpression of the CCK gene on hippocampal functions?

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. In fact, an earlier study from our laboratory demonstrated that intraperitoneal injection of exogenous CCK-4 significantly improved performance in hippocampus-dependent spatial learning tasks in both CCK gene knockout (CCK-KO) mice and Alzheimer’s disease (AD) mouse models. These findings suggest that enhancing CCK signaling can ameliorate hippocampal dysfunction at both the behavioral and synaptic plasticity levels (Zhang et al., 2024; Wang et al., 2025). Accordingly, although direct genetic overexpression of CCK in the hippocampus has not yet been extensively characterized, the observed benefits of exogenous CCK delivery support the notion that increased CCK availability positively modulates hippocampal function and spatial learning. We have cited this study in the revised manuscript to support this interpretation.

      “Interestingly, an earlier study demonstrated that intraperitoneal injection of exogenous CCK-4 significantly improved performance in hippocampus-dependent spatial learning tasks in both CCK gene knockout (CCK-KO) mice and Alzheimer’s disease (AD) mouse models (Zhang et al., 2024). These findings suggest that enhancing CCK signaling can ameliorate hippocampal dysfunction at both the behavioral and synaptic plasticity levels.” (Line 291 - line 297 in the revision)

      (3) What are the functional differences between the excitatory and inhibitory CCK neurons in the hippocampus?

      In the hippocampus, CCK-expressing neurons consist of two major populations with distinct functions: excitatory (glutamatergic) and inhibitory (GABAergic) neurons. Excitatory CCK neurons are relatively sparse and intermingled with pyramidal cells. By releasing glutamate, they directly contribute to excitatory transmission and are thought to participate in synaptic plasticity and information processing related to learning and memory. In contrast, inhibitory CCK neurons are more abundant and include well-characterized interneuron subtypes such as CCK-positive basket cells. These neurons release GABA and primarily target the perisomatic region of pyramidal neurons, providing strong control over neuronal firing. Notably, inhibitory CCK interneurons are highly sensitive to neuromodulatory signals, particularly endocannabinoids via CB1 receptors, enabling dynamic regulation of inhibitory tone and network activity. Together, excitatory CCK neurons mainly support hippocampal excitation and plasticity, whereas inhibitory CCK neurons regulate network dynamics and spike timing. As the focus of the present study is on excitatory CCK neurons, a detailed comparison between these two populations was not included in the original manuscript.

      (4) Do CCK sources come from the local CA3 or entorhinal cortex (EC) during the high-frequency electrical stimulation?

      Thank you for this insightful comment. Our data indicate that the CCK detected during high-frequency stimulation originates from CA3 neurons rather than the entorhinal cortex (EC). As shown in Figure 2, we used an optogenetic approach combined with a GPCR-based CCK sensor to selectively examine CCK release from the CA3-CA1 pathway. ChrimsonR was specifically expressed in CA3 neurons projecting to CA1, restricting light stimulation to CA3 axon terminals. In parallel, the CCK sensor was locally expressed in CA1, allowing real-time detection of CCK release at CA3 presynaptic sites. High-frequency light stimulation robustly evoked CCK signals in CA1, demonstrating activity-dependent CCK release from CA3 terminals. Importantly, EC inputs were neither genetically targeted nor optically stimulated in this experiment, excluding the EC as a source of the detected CCK. Together, these results support the conclusion that CCK released during high-frequency stimulation is derived from local CA3 projections to CA1. Similarly, as the focus of the present study is on excitatory CCK neurons in the CA3 area, a detailed comparison between these two CCK sources was not included in the original manuscript.

      Citation:

      (4) Wang, J. L., Sha, X. Y., Shao, Y., Zhang, Z. H., Huang, S. M., Lin, H., ... & Sun, J. P. (2025). Elucidating pathway-selective biased CCKBR agonism for Alzheimer’s disease treatment. Cell.

      (5) Zhang, N., Sui, Y., Jendrichovsky, P., Feng, H., Shi, H., Zhang, X., ... & He, J. (2024). Cholecystokinin B receptor agonists alleviates anterograde amnesia in cholecystokinin-deficient and aged Alzheimer's disease mice. Alzheimer's research & therapy, 16(1), 109.

      (6) Su, J., Huang, F., Tian, Y., Tian, R., Qianqian, G., Bello, S. T., ... & He, J. (2023). Entorhinohippocampal cholecystokinin modulates spatial learning by facilitating neuroplasticity of hippocampal CA3-CA1 synapses. Cell Reports, 42(12).

    1. Author response:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Hierarchical Inference (Unit Survey)

      We agree that pooling units across preparations can overstate the strength of inference if preparation-level clustering is ignored. We will therefore reanalyze the unit-survey dataset using a hierarchical approach in which the preparation/animal is treated as the unit of inference. Our pooled dataset was derived from three chunk preparations exposed to AMPA and three baseline preparations, allowing us to report per-preparation proportions and variability as requested.

      A preliminary reanalysis of the buccal segment preparations is summarized below. In this analysis, the unit of inference is shifted from individual recorded units to the preparation level (n = 3 baseline; n = 3 at 60 nM AMPA), thereby accounting for potential within-preparation dependence.

      Author response table 1.

      The distribution of units for each of the three preparations per condition is as follows:

      Using the proportion of buccal units per preparation as the dependent variable:

      Baseline (n = 3): mean proportion of buccal units = 6.5% (SD 5.7%).

      60 nM AMPA (n = 3): mean proportion of buccal units = 53.2% (SD 6.0%).

      Absolute difference in proportions = 46.7% (95% CI 33.4% to 59.8%).

      Independent-samples t-test on per-preparation proportions: t(4) = 9.77, p = 0.0006.

      Thus, this preliminary hierarchical reanalysis indicates that the observed recruitment is consistent across preparations and is not driven by outlier data from a single animal. These results support substantial expansion of the buccal oscillator with excitation.

      Statistical Standardization: In the revision, we will better justify our use of parametric and non-parametric versions of the one-sample tests and review usage in the Methods, Table 1, and figure legends for consistency.

      Exclusion criteria for microinjection experiments: We will extend the description of these experiments by including a flow diagram summarizing the 15 attempted microinjection experiments and documenting the technical reasons for the 9 exclusions. These exclusions reflected the technical requirements of the preparation: (a) the buccal area had to be localized before AMPA excitation so that the effects of buccal-area manipulation during excitation could be interpreted reliably, which was not always possible; and (b) preparations had to exhibit sufficiently sustained periods of consecutive buccal bursting to permit quantification of buccal burst frequency, whereas some preparations expressed motor patterns dominated by lung bursts.

      Pharmacological Potency and Necessity: We will revise the wording of this section to make the causal interpretation more precise. Our data already show that local GABA microinjections can reverse the excitatory effects of local AMPA microinjections, providing an internal control for local pharmacological efficacy of GABA when the local network is excited. Notably, the local AMPA concentration used in these experiments (5 µM) is nearly two orders of magnitude greater than the 60 nM concentration used in bath application. We therefore interpret the failure of focal GABA inhibition to abolish rhythm during global excitation as being consistent with expansion of rhythmogenic capacity beyond the spatial reach of the local injection, rather than with failure of the GABA manipulation itself.

      Finding an inhibitory site that remains sensitive in bath applied AMPA is an interesting experiment but this would require identifying the anatomical substrate of a brainstem circuit for a non-ventilatory circuit in Rana that is guaranteed not to undergo reconfiguration with AMPA. This is beyond the scope of the current manuscript; based on our work to identify the neuronal substrate for ventilation in Rana, this would take at least five years to complete. In addition, having identified such a circuit there would be no guarantee that AMPA would not cause reconfiguration in this case too. With regards to transection boundaries and location of injections, we agree these would be useful refinements. We used the location of nerves as reliable landmarks to guide transections and located the buccal area using stereotactic coordinates to guide micropipette insertion and functional criteria (AMPA and GABA sufficiency and necessity tests) to locate the exact position based on our previous work.

      Unit Classification: We will review the nomenclature we use to define units to ensure it does not cause confusion and provide more explicit criteria for unit classes. This will include clarification of the absence of “buccal-only” units as currently defined. Specifically, when both buccal and lung rhythms are present, units active during buccal bursts are also active during lung bursts in our preparation. This does not conflict with the multiple interacting oscillator model we have proposed previously. Rather, recruitment of buccal-area neurons during lung bursts is consistent with a model in which the lung oscillator excites the buccal oscillator. It is also consistent with prior evidence that lung bursts persist after buccal-area ablation. In addition, burst frequency during lung episodes exceeds buccal burst frequency during intervening buccal periods. We will revise the text to make this logic clearer.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      (1) Degeneracy vs. Redundancy

      We agree that degeneracy is the more precise term for the phenomenon our data demonstrate, in which structurally and functionally distinct neurons (lung units) acquire the capacity to participate in buccal rhythm generation under excitation. The Discussion already uses this language (e.g., "necessity and sufficiency may not work in a large degenerate network where rhythm generation is distributed across many elements"), but we used the word "redundant" in the Key Points Summary and Abstract in the broader sense of distributed robustness that a wider readership could grasp. Nonetheless, we recognize the distinction drawn by Goaillard and Marder (2021) and, considering the reviewers concerns, we will revise the Abstract and Key Points to adopt the degeneracy framework consistently.

      (2) Loss of Essential Requirement for a Discrete Oscillator

      The reviewer asks whether expansion of the rhythmically active region necessarily implies loss of the rhythmogenic kernel. We believe our necessity and sufficiency experiments (Figure 9) directly address this. Under baseline conditions, GABA microinjection into the buccal area reliably abolishes buccal bursting; under 60 nM bath AMPA, the same injection at the same location and volume has no significant effect on buccal frequency. If the kernel remained essential and the surrounding recruitment were merely supplementary, local inhibition of the kernel should still slow or abolish the rhythm. It does not. We interpret this as evidence that the essential requirement for the discrete buccal area is lost under excitation, not merely that a larger area has been recruited around a still-critical core. We acknowledge, however, that the word "lost" could be read as implying permanent elimination rather than state-dependent suspension, and we will temper this language in the revision.

      (3) Novelty Relative to Mammalian Studies

      We appreciate the reviewer drawing attention to the cited mammalian literature (Del Negro et al., 2002, 2009; Baertsch et al., 2018, 2019), which we discuss in detail in the manuscript. However, we respectfully note that our findings extend this literature in several ways that the public review does not acknowledge. First, Baertsch et al. demonstrated recruitment of tonic or silent neurons to become phasically active during inspiration; we show that neurons already assigned to one oscillator phase (lung) can be dynamically reassigned to another (buccal), which represents a qualitatively different form of reconfiguration. Second, we developed a novel approach to functionally ablate motor neuron pools using high-frequency nerve stimulation, enabling the unit survey to be interpreted at the premotor level which was not achieved in the mammalian studies cited. Third, our data provide the first demonstration of state-dependent oscillator expansion in a non-mammalian tetrapod, offering evolutionary context that strengthens the generality of the principle. We will revise the term "promiscuous" if it overstates the claim, but we maintain that our data support the conclusion that oscillator boundaries are flexible, which goes beyond what has been shown in mammals.

      (4) Figure 6, CN5 Output Under AMPA

      The reviewer asks whether the shift in premotor unit composition is reflected in CN5 motor output. This is a reasonable question. As noted in the manuscript, 60 nM AMPA produces only minor changes in the overt motor pattern as recorded from CN5, which is precisely why we interpret the premotor changes as a reorganization of the network's internal architecture that is not readily apparent from motor output alone. This is in sharp contrast to observations of substantive network reconfiguration in mammals in which eupnea is replaced by the pathological condition of gasping. We will add quantification of CN5 burst parameters (amplitude, duration, frequency) under baseline and 60 nM AMPA to make this point explicit.

      (5) Subthreshold Recruitment vs. Network Expansion

      The reviewer suggests that neurons classified as newly rhythmic under AMPA may have been part of the rhythmic network all along, receiving subthreshold inputs at baseline. We are grateful to the reviewer for highlighting this and hope they would agree that the literature clearly demonstrates that all respiratory neurons receive subthreshold phasic inputs of one kind or another, perhaps providing a clue that reconfiguration is a common feature of respiratory networks generally. Regardless of the implications for other animals, we agree this is likely the mechanism at work in the frog, and indeed our manuscript states that "this increase in the number and proportion of premotor buccal units is due in part to recruitment of sub-threshold buccal neurons that, under low excitability, only fire during lung bursts," citing intracellular evidence from Kogo and Remmers (1994) that lung neurons in this region receive subthreshold buccal-timed input. We note that this observation does not diminish our conclusion and likely explains the mechanism by which network expansion occurs. Whether one calls these neurons "newly recruited" or "pushed above threshold," the functional consequence is the same: a larger population of neurons is now rhythmically active during buccal bursts, and the necessity of the original buccal area is lost. We will clarify this reasoning in the revision and acknowledge the limitation that additional intracellular recordings from our preparation would be needed to fully characterize the subthreshold dynamics.

      (6) Figure 8, Epoch Length and Meta-analysis

      The reviewer notes that the pre-AMPA epoch appears shorter than the post-AMPA epoch in Figure 8A, which could bias unit classification. We will address this in the revision by reporting epoch durations explicitly and addressing its implication on spike counts where appropriate. Regarding the request for meta-analysis of lung unit spiking during baseline buccal bursts: this analysis is part of the rationale for the phase-recruitment panels, and we will expand Figure 8 to include the requested cross-condition comparisons (lung unit activity during baseline buccal bursts, and during post-AMPA lung bursts) as also suggested by Reviewer 3.

      (7) Figure 9, Buccal-to-Lung Burst Ratio

      The reviewer observes that the ratio of buccal to lung bursts decreases from approximately 4-5:1 under baseline to 2-3:1 under 60 nM AMPA, and suggests this is inconsistent with conversion of lung units into buccal units. We do not believe this is inconsistent. The buccal-to-lung burst ratio reflects the overt motor pattern, which is determined by the interaction of multiple oscillators and is influenced by AMPA at both buccal and lung levels. A change in this ratio does not speak to whether individual premotor units have acquired buccal-timed activity; the unit survey and the single-unit transformation data (Figure 8) address that question directly. Regarding the alternative model involving efference copy and cross-inhibition: this is an interesting hypothesis, but it is speculative and not tested by the current dataset. We are happy to discuss lung-buccal interactions more fully in the revision, including the parallels to parafacial/preBötC interactions in mammals, but we note that our data on unit transformation are better explained by network reconfiguration than by a feedback model that remains to be tested.

      (8) "Independent" Slices

      The reviewer compares our Level 2 transection to the preBötC sandwich slice preparation and argues the two resulting slices are not independent. We take the reviewer's point that "independent" may be read as implying no shared developmental or functional origin, which is not our intent. By "independent" we mean that the two physically separated slices can each generate rhythmic output without being synaptically connected to each other. This is, in fact, our central point: rhythmogenic capacity is distributed across a region broad enough to endow two separated slices with independent rhythm-generating capability when excited. We note that the analogy to the sandwich slice is imperfect because in our Level 1 cuts, only the rostral slice containing the buccal area generates rhythm -- the caudal slice does not -- whereas Level 2 cuts that bisect the buccal area produce rhythmicity in both halves, consistent with distributed capacity specifically within the buccal region. We will revise the wording to clarify what we mean by "independent" in this context.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Physiological Parallels: We will expand the Discussion to place these findings in a broader comparative context, including the eupnea-to-gasping transition in mammals as an example of state-dependent reconfiguration of respiratory networks. This will also allow us to clarify two advances that may otherwise be missed when comparing our work to that in mammals: (a) we developed a novel approach to functionally eliminate motor neurons, allowing mapped units to be interpreted as premotor; and (b) the state-dependent reconfiguration of the buccal oscillator occurred without qualitative changes in the overt lung-buccal motor pattern.

      Unit Transformation Analysis: We will revise Figure 8 to improve clarity around the observed lung-to-buccal transformation by expanding the phase-recruitment panels as suggested and will revisit the operational definitions of lung and buccal unit identity to reduce ambiguity. The central observation is that some units active only during lung bursts under one condition become active during buccal bursts when network excitation is increased.

      Saturation vs. Network Expansion: We will directly address the possibility that 60 nM bath-applied AMPA simply pushes the network toward a frequency ceiling. Two observations strongly argue against this interpretation: (a) 60 nM global AMPA produced only mild changes in buccal frequency, whereas local AMPA injection at much higher concentrations produced larger effects; and (b) local GABA was sufficient to reverse the effects of high-concentration local AMPA microinjections but insufficient to abolish rhythm during low-concentration global AMPA application. Together, these findings are more consistent with global AMPA endowing the network with distributed rhythm-generating capacity than with simple saturation of a discrete local oscillator. Notwithstanding these arguments, we will attempt to extend AMPA/GABA dose response experiment as suggested or add the lack of such experiments as a caveat to our interpretation.

      Figure 9C Correction: We will correct the statistical markings in Figure 9C to align with the text in the Results regarding the significance of frequency changes under 60 nM AMPA.

      In total, we believe these revisions will improve the rigor and clarity of the manuscript while preserving the central conclusion supported by the data: that the organization of the frog respiratory rhythmogenic network is state dependent and becomes more distributed under excitation.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, Chengjian Zhao et al. focused on the interactions between vascular, biliary, and neural networks in the liver microenvironment, addressing the critical bottleneck that the lack of high-resolution 3D visualization has hindered understanding of these interactions in liver disease.

      Strengths:

      This study developed a high-resolution multiplex 3D imaging method that integrates multicolor metallic compound nanoparticle (MCNP) perfusion with optimized CUBIC tissue clearing. This method enables the simultaneous 3D visualization of spatial networks of the portal vein, hepatic artery, bile ducts, and central vein in the mouse liver. The authors reported a perivascular structure termed the Periportal Lamellar Complex (PLC), which is identified along the portal vein axis. This study clarifies that the PLC comprises CD34⁺Sca-1⁺ dual-positive endothelial cells with a distinct gene expression profile, and reveals its colocalization with terminal bile duct branches and sympathetic nerve fibers under physiological conditions.

      Comments on revisions:

      The authors very nicely addressed all concerns from this reviewer. There are no further concerns and comments.

      We thank the reviewer for the positive evaluation and helpful feedback.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Xu, Cao and colleagues aimed to overcome the obstacles of high-resolution imaging of intact liver tissue. They report successful modification of the existing CUBIC protocol into Liver-CUBIC, a high-resolution multiplex 3D imaging method that integrates multicolor metallic compound nanoparticle (MCNP) perfusion with optimized liver tissue clearing, significantly reducing clearing time and enabling simultaneous 3D visualization of the portal vein, hepatic artery, bile ducts, and central vein spatial networks in the mouse liver. Using this novel platform, the researchers describe a previously unrecognized perivascular structure they termed Periportal Lamellar Complex (PLC), regularly distributed along the adult liver portal veins.

      Using available scRNAseq data, the authors assessed the CD34<sup>+</sup>/Sca-1<sup>+</sup> cells' expression profile, highlighting mRNA presence of genes linked to neurodevelopment, bile acid transport, and hematopoietic niche potential. Different aspects of this analysis were then addressed by protein staining of selected marker proteins in the mouse liver tissue. Next, the authors addressed how the PLC and biliary system react to CCL4-induced liver fibrosis, implying PLC dynamically extends, acting as a scaffold that guides the migration and expansion of terminal bile ducts and sympathetic nerve fibers into the hepatic parenchyma upon injury.

      The work clearly demonstrates the usefulness of the Liver-CUBIC technique and the improvement of both resolution and complexity of the information, gained by simultaneous visualization of multiple vascular and biliary systems of the liver. The identification of PLC and the interpretation of its function represent an intriguing set of observations that will surely attract the attention of liver biologists as well as hepatologists. The importance of the CD34+/Sca1+ endothelial cell population and claims based on transcriptomic re-analysis require future assessment by functional experimental approaches to decipher the functional molecules involved in PLC formation, maintenance, and the involvement in injury response before establishing their role in biliary, arterial, and neural liver systems.

      Strengths:

      The authors clearly demonstrate an improved technique tailored to the visualization of the liver vasulo-biliary architecture in unprecedented resolution.

      This work proposes a new morphological feature of adult liver facilitating interaction between the portal vein, hepatic arteries, biliary tree, and intrahepatic innervation, centered at previously underappreciated protrusions of the portal veins - PLCs.

      Weaknesses:

      The importance of CD34+Sca1+ endothelial cell sub-population for PLC formation and function was not tested and warrants further validation.

      We thank the reviewer for the valuable comment regarding the potential role of the CD34<sup>+</sup>/Sca-1<sup>+</sup> endothelial cell sub-population in PLC function.

      We agree that direct functional validation would be a crucial next step to confirm the contribution of this specific sub-population to PLC formation and function. The focus of the present study remains on the spatial localization and reproducible characterization of PLC structures based on 3D imaging, as well as the relevant transcriptional features revealed by single-cell analysis.

      To avoid overinterpretation, we have revised the Discussion section accordingly, providing a more focused and cautious description of the related findings.

      Comments on revisions:

      I appreciate the author's effort to revise the text so it more rigorously adheres to the presented evidence. Following a thorough read of the revised text, a few remaining minor issues were identified in the Discussion.

      (1) From where comes the hard evidence for PLC being the stem cell niche in the following sentence?

      for the two following statements:

      This suggests that the PLC may not only provide structural support but also serve as a perivascular stem cell niche specific to the portal region, potentially involved in hematopoiesis and tissue regeneration.

      The PLC serves as a directional scaffold for ductal growth, a specialized stem cell niche, and a potential site of neurovascular coupling.

      We thank the reviewer for this important comment. We agree that the term “stem cell niche” may imply functional evidence for direct stem cell regulation, which was not demonstrated in this study. Our conclusions were based on the spatial enrichment and transcriptional features of CD34<sup>+</sup>/Sca-1<sup>+</sup> endothelial populations expressing hematopoiesis-related genes in the portal region.

      To avoid overinterpretation, we have revised the sentence to remove the term “stem cell niche” and instead describe the PLC as being enriched in perivascular endothelial cell populations with hematopoiesis-related gene expression features. The revised text now reads:

      “These results suggest that, beyond structural support, the PLC in the portal region is enriched with perivascular endothelial cell populations exhibiting hematopoiesis-related gene expression features.”

      We have also modified the corresponding statement later in the Discussion. It now reads:

      “The PLC serves as a directional scaffold for ductal growth, displays distinct perivascular endothelial transcriptional features in the portal region, and may represent a potential site of neurovascular coupling.”

      We believe this wording more accurately reflects the descriptive and transcriptomic nature of our data without implying functional niche activity.

      (2) In the following paragraph, I lack references to the previously published evidence of liver innervation guidance mechanisms, such as the mesenchyme-mediated guidance (CD31- population) Gannoun et al., 2023 https://doi.org/10.1242/dev.201642, an important context for your finding.

      Further analysis showed significant upregulation of genes involved in neurodevelopment and axonal guidance in the CD34<sup>+</sup>/Sca-1<sup>+</sup> cluster, along with activation of neuronal signaling pathways. Immunostaining confirmed the presence of TH<sup>+</sup> sympathetic nerve fibers wrapping around the PLC in a "beads-on-a-string" pattern (Fig. 6), consistent with a classic neurovascular unit(Adori et al., 2021). Previous studies have shown that sympathetic nerves enter the liver along collagen fibers of Glisson's capsule and interact with hepatic arteries, portal veins, and bile duct epithelium, supporting the PLC as a scaffold for intrahepatic neurovascular integration.

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting the importance of previously published evidence regarding liver innervation guidance mechanisms. We agree that these studies provide important context for interpreting the neurodevelopmental and axon guidance–related transcriptional signatures observed in our dataset. Accordingly, we have revised the Discussion section to incorporate reference to mesenchyme-mediated axon guidance mechanisms in the portal region during liver development (Gannoun et al., 2023). This addition better situates our findings within the existing literature.

      (3) Several sentences have issues with a lack of space between words.

      We have carefully re-examined the entire manuscript for spacing and formatting inconsistencies and corrected minor typographical issues to ensure uniform formatting throughout the text.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      This manuscript investigates how dentate gyrus (DG) granule cell subregions, specifically suprapyramidal (SB) and infrapyramidal (IB) blades, are differentially recruited during a high cognitive demand pattern separation task. The authors combine TRAP2 activity labeling, touchscreen-based TUNL behavior, and chemogenetic inhibition of adult-born dentate granule cells (abDGCs) or mature granule cells (mGCs) to dissect circuit contributions.

      This manuscript presents an interesting and well-designed investigation into DG activity patterns under varying cognitive demands and the role of abDGCs in shaping mGC activity. The integration of TRAP2-based activity labeling, chemogenetic manipulation, and behavioral assays provides valuable insight into DG subregional organization and functional recruitment. However, several methodological and quantitative issues limit the interpretability of the findings. Addressing the concerns below will greatly strengthen the rigor and clarity of the study.

      Major points:

      (1) Quantification methods for TRAP+ cells are not applied consistently across panels in Figure 1, making interpretation difficult. Specifically, Figure 1F reports TRAP+ mGCs as density, whereas Figure 1G reports TRAP+ abDGCs as a percentage, hindering direct comparison. Additionally, Figure 1H presents reactivation analysis only for mGCs; a parallel analysis for abDGCs is needed for comparison across cell types.

      In Figure 1G and 1H we report TRAP+ abDGCs as a percentage rather than density because we are analyzing colocalization of the two markers, which are very sparse in this population. Given the very low number of double-labeled abDGCs, calculating density would not be practical. In the revised manuscript we have clarified the rationale for using these measures. As noted in the current text, we did not observe abDGCs co-expressing TRAP and c-Fos; we have made this point more explicit to guide interpretation of these data.

      (2) The anatomical distribution of TRAP+ cells is different between low- and high-cognitive demand conditions (Figure 2). Are these sections from dorsal or ventral DG? Is this specific to dorsal DG, as it is preferentially involved in cognitive function? What happens in ventral DG?

      The sections shown in Figure 2 were obtained from the dorsal dentate gyrus (see Methods, “Histology and imaging”: stereotaxic coordinates −1.20 to −2.30 mm relative to bregma, Paxinos atlas). From a feasibility standpoint, it is not possible to analyze the entire longitudinal extent of the hippocampus with these low-throughput histological approaches. We therefore focused on the dorsal DG, for which there is a strong functional rationale. A large body of work indicates that the dorsal hippocampus, and specifically the dorsal DG, is preferentially involved in spatial memory and in the fine contextual discrimination that underlies pattern separation. The dorsal hippocampus is critical for encoding and distinguishing similar spatial representations, a core component of the high-cognitive demand task used here. In contrast, the ventral DG is more strongly associated with emotional regulation and affective memory processing and is less implicated in high-resolution spatial encoding. For these reasons, the present study was designed to assess TRAP+ cell distributions specifically in the dorsal DG.

      (3) The activity manipulation using chemogenetic inhibition of abDGCs in AsclCreER; hM4 mice was performed; however, because tamoxifen chow was administered for 4 or 7 weeks, the labeled abDGC population was not properly birth-dated. Instead, it consisted of a heterogeneous cohort of cells ranging from 0 to 5-7 weeks old. Thus, caution should be taken when interpreting these results, and the limitations of this approach should be acknowledged.

      We agree that prolonged tamoxifen administration results in labeling a heterogeneous population of abDGCs spanning approximately 0 to 5–7 weeks of age, rather than a precisely birth-dated cohort. This is a limitation of this approach and we have included discussion of this in more detail in the revised manuscript.

      (4) There is a major issue related to the quantification of the DREADD experiments in Figure 4, Figure 5, Figure 6, and Figure 7. The hM4 mouse line used in this study should be quantified using HA, rather than mCitrine, to reliably identify cells derived from the Ascl lineage. mCitrine expression in this mouse line is not specific to adult-born neurons (off-targets), and its expression does not accurately reflect hM4 expression.

      We agree that mCitrine is not a marker that allows localization of hM4Di as it is well known that the mCitrine can be independently expressed in a Cre independent manner in this mouse. As suggested, we have removed the figure that showed the mCitrine and have performed immunohistochemical localization of the DREADD with an antibody against the HA tag. This is now shown in Figure 5.

      (5) Key markers needed to assess the maturation state of abDGCs are missing from the quantification. Incorporating DCX and NeuN into the analysis would provide essential information about the developmental stage of these cells.

      The goal of this study was to examine activity patterns of adult-born versus mature granule cells, rather than to assess maturation state. The adult-born neurons analyzed were 25–39 days old, an age at which point most cells have progressed beyond the DCX⁺ stage and are expected to express NeuN based on prior work. We therefore do not think that including DCX or NeuN quantification would provide additional information relevant to the aims or interpretation of this study.

      Minor points:

      (1) The labeling (Distance from the hilus) in Figure 2B is misleading. Is that the same location as the subgranular zone (SGZ)? If so, it's better to use the term SGZ to avoid confusion.

      We have updated Figure 2B, the Methods, and the main text to more explicitly localize this which it the boundary between the subgranular zone (SGZ) and the hilus.

      (2) Cell number information is missing from Figures 2B and 2C; please include this data.

      We have now added the cell number information to the figure legends. In Figures 2B and 2C, each point corresponds to a single cell, with an equal number of mice per group. The total number of TRAP⁺ cells per mouse is shown in Figure 1F, which reports TRAP⁺ cell densities by group.

      (3) Sample DG images should clearly delineate the borders between the dentate gyrus and the hilus. In several images, this boundary is difficult to discern.

      We made the DG-hilus boundaries clearer in the sample images to improve visualization and interpretation.

      (4) In Figure 6, it is not clear how tamoxifen was administered to selectively inhibit the more mature 6-7-week-old abDGC population, nor how this paradigm differs from the chow-based approach. Please clarify the tamoxifen administration protocol and the rationale for its specificity.

      We apologize for the confusion here. The protocol used in Figure 6 is the same tamoxifen chow–based approach as in Figure 5, differing only in the duration of tamoxifen exposure. Mice in Figure 5 received tamoxifen chow for 7 weeks, whereas mice in Figure 6 received it for 4 weeks, restricting labeling to a younger and narrower cohort of adult-born DGCs. Thus, the population targeted in Figure 6 is younger than that in Figure 5 and does not correspond to mature 6–7-week-old neurons. By contrast, the experiment in Figure 4 targets a more mature population, consisting predominantly of ~5-week-old adult-born neurons as well as mature granule cells, which are Dock10-positive and express Cre endogenously, allowing selective manipulation of this later-stage population.

      We have corrected the paragraph accordingly and clarified the age range of the labeled populations in the revised manuscript.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary

      In this manuscript, the authors combine an automated touchscreen-based trial-unique nonmatching-to-location (TUNL) task with activity-dependent labeling (TRAP/c-Fos) and birth-dating of adult-born dentate granule cells (abDGCs) to examine how cognitive demand modulates dentate gyrus (DG) activity patterns. By varying spatial separation between sample and choice locations, the authors operationally increase task difficulty and show that higher demand is associated with increased mature granule cell (mGC) activity and an amplified suprapyramidal (SB) versus infrapyramidal (IB) blade bias. Using chemogenetic inhibition, they further demonstrate dissociable contributions of abDGCs and mGCs to task performance and DG activation patterns.

      The combination of behavioral manipulation, spatially resolved activity tagging, and temporally defined abDGC perturbations is a strength of the study and provides a novel circuit-level perspective on how adult neurogenesis modulates DG function. In particular, the comparison across different abDGC maturation windows is well designed and narrows the functionally relevant population to neurons within the critical period (~4-7 weeks). The finding that overall mGC activity levels, in addition to spatially biased activation patterns, are required for successful performance under high cognitive demand is intriguing.

      Major Comments

      (1) Individual variability and the relationship between performance and DG activation.

      The manuscript reports substantial inter-animal variability in the number of days required to reach the criterion, particularly during large-separation training. Given this variability, it would be informative to examine whether individual differences in performance correlate with TRAP+ or c-Fos+ density and/or spatial bias metrics. While the authors report no correlation between success and TRAP+ density in some analyses, a more systematic correlation across learning rate, final performance, and DG activation patterns (mGC vs abDGC, SB vs IB) could strengthen the interpretation that DG activity reflects task engagement rather than performance only.

      As mentioned, we previously reported no correlation between task success and TRAP+ density. We have now performed additional analyses examining correlations with learning rate, final performance, and DG activation patterns (mGC vs abDGC, SB vs IB), and found no significant relationships. Therefore, as we did not find any positive correlations the original interpretation that DG activity primarily reflects task engagement rather than performance level seems the most parsimonious.

      (2) Operational definition of "cognitive demand".

      The distinction between low (large separation) and high (small separation) cognitive demand is central to the manuscript, yet the definition remains somewhat broad. Reduced spatial separation likely alters multiple behavioral variables beyond cognitive load, including reward expectation, attentional demands, confidence, engagement, and potentially motivation. The authors should more explicitly acknowledge these alternative interpretations and clarify whether "cognitive demand" is intended as a composite construct rather than a strictly defined cognitive operation.

      We agree that reducing spatial separation between stimuli likely engages multiple behavioral and cognitive processes beyond a single, strictly defined operation. We have now clarified this point in the manuscript and explicitly state that our use of the term “cognitive demand” reflects a multidimensional behavioral challenge rather than a singular cognitive process (see Discussion).

      (3) Potential effects of task engagement on neurogenesis.

      Given the extensive behavioral training and known effects of experience on adult neurogenesis, it remains unclear whether the task itself alters the size or maturation state of the abDGC population. Although the focus is on activity and function rather than cell number, it would be useful to clarify whether neurogenesis rates were assessed or controlled for, or to explicitly state this as a limitation.

      While the primary goal of this study was to examine activity and functional recruitment of adult-born granule cells, we also quantified the survival of birth-dated neurons at the end of behavioral training. Density measurements of BrdU⁺ and EdU⁺ cells revealed no differences across experimental groups, indicating that engagement in the pattern separation task, across low to high cognitive demand conditions, did not significantly alter survival of adult-born neurons. In addition, we examined the spatial distribution of BrdU⁺ and EdU⁺ neurons between the suprapyramidal and infrapyramidal blades of the dentate gyrus. The proportion of newborn neurons was consistent across all groups, with approximately 60% located in the suprapyramidal blade and 40% in the infrapyramidal blade. These findings indicate that behavioral training did not alter the baseline distribution of adult-born neurons. We have now clarified these points in the manuscript (See Results).

      (4) Temporal resolution of activity tagging.

      TRAP and c-Fos labeling provide a snapshot of neural activity integrated over a temporal window, making it difficult to determine which task epochs or trial types drive the observed activation patterns. This limitation is partially acknowledged, but the conclusions occasionally imply trial-specific or demand-specific encoding. The authors should more clearly distinguish between sustained task engagement and moment-to-moment trial processing, and temper interpretations accordingly. While beyond the scope of the current study, this also motivates future experiments using in vivo recording approaches.

      We agree and have made changes to the manuscript to discuss these points (see Discussion and Limitations).

      (5) Interpretation of altered spatial patterns following abDGC inhibition.

      In the abDGC inhibition experiments, Cre+ DCZ animals show delayed learning relative to controls. As a result, when animals are sacrificed, they may be at an intermediate learning stage rather than at an equivalent behavioral endpoint. This raises the possibility that altered DG activation patterns reflect the learning stage rather than a direct circuit effect of abDGC inhibition. Additional clarification or analysis controlling for the learning stage would strengthen the causal interpretation.

      We agree that differences in learning stage could in principle confound the interpretation of DG activation patterns. However, although Cre+ DCZ-treated mice exhibited delayed learning, they ultimately reached the same performance criterion as control animals. Thus, adult-born DGC inhibition did not prevent learning but increased the time required to reach criterion, indicating that these neurons are beneficial for learning efficiency rather than strictly necessary for task acquisition. Importantly, all animals were sacrificed only after reaching the predefined success criterion. Therefore, the immunohistochemical analyses were performed at the same behavioral endpoint for Cre+ DCZ and control groups, even though the number of training days differed. Consequently, the observed differences in DG activation reflect circuit recruitment at equivalent task mastery rather than differences in learning stage.

      (6) Relationship between c-Fos density and behavioral performance.

      The study reports that abDGC inhibition increases c-Fos density while impairing performance, whereas mGC inhibition decreases c-Fos density and also impairs performance. This raises an important conceptual question regarding the relationship between overall activity levels and task success. The authors suggest that both sufficient activity and appropriate spatial patterning are required, but the manuscript would benefit from a more explicit discussion of how different perturbations may shift the identity, composition, or coordination of the active neuronal ensemble rather than simply altering total activity levels.

      We agree that our findings highlight that successful performance is not determined solely by the overall level of dentate gyrus activity, but rather by the composition and spatial organization of the active neuronal ensemble. In our study, inhibition of abDGCs increased overall mGC activity while disrupting the spatially organized, blade-biased activation pattern and impaired performance. In contrast, direct inhibition of mGCs reduced global excitability but preserved the relative spatial organization of active neurons in animals that continued to perform the task. These findings suggest that different perturbations alter task performance by shifting the identity and coordination of the active neuronal ensemble, rather than simply increasing or decreasing total activity levels. We have now expanded the Discussion to more explicitly address how dentate gyrus computations may depend on the structured recruitment of granule cell ensembles and how distinct manipulations differentially disrupt this organization.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors used genetic models and immunohistochemistry to identify how training in a spatial discrimination working memory task influences activity in the dentate gyrus subregion of the hippocampus. Finding that more cognitively challenging variants of the task evoked more and distinct patterns of activity, they then investigated whether newborn neurons in particular were important for learning this task and regulating the spatial activity patterns.

      Strengths:

      The focus on precise anatomical locations of activity is relatively novel and potentially important, given that little is known about how DG subregions contribute to behavior. The authors also use a task that is known to depend on this memory-related part of the brain.

      Weaknesses:

      Statistical rigor is insufficient. Many statistical results are not stated, inappropriate tests are used, and sample sizes differ across experiments (which appear to potentially underlie null results). The chemogenetic approach to inhibit adult-born neurons also does not appear to be targeting these neurons, as judged by their location in the DG.

      Please refer to the updated statistical analyses in response to the recommendations below.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewing Editor Comments

      Please note that reviewers agreed that appropriate revisions are needed to increase the strength of evidence for the paper's claims. Concerns were raised about a lack of statistical rigor in the statistical analyses used. Results of statistical tests were not consistently provided (i.e., statistic applied, value of statistic, degrees of freedom, p-value), and seemingly inappropriate statistical tests were used in some instances. Also, some comparisons had lower statistical power than others. When clarifying the statistical approaches used in the manuscript, we also encourage you to consider reading this article that outlines common statistical mistakes (Makin TR, Orban de Xivry JJ. Ten common statistical mistakes to watch out for when writing or reviewing a manuscript. Elife. 2019 Oct 9;8:e48175. doi: 10.7554/eLife.48175.), such as the importance of not basing conclusions on a significant p-value for one pair-wise comparison vs a non-significant p-value for another pairwise comparison (i.e., groups that are being compared should be included in the same statistical analysis, and interaction effects should be reported when appropriate). We hope that you find this information to be helpful should you decide to submit a revised manuscript to eLife.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Standardize TRAP+ quantification across Figure 1.

      Please report TRAP+ cell numbers using consistent metrics (e.g., density or percentage) to enable comparison across cell types. In addition, extend the TRAP+ reactivation analysis in Figure 1H to include abDGCs so that reactivation dynamics can be compared directly between mGCs and abDGCs.

      Reply in Public Review

      (2) Clarify whether dorsal or ventral DG was analyzed in Figure 2.

      The differing anatomical distributions of TRAP+ cells under low- and high-demand conditions raise important questions about DG axis specificity. Please indicate whether analyses were performed in dorsal DG, ventral DG, or both, and provide data or justification accordingly.

      Reply in Public Review

      (3) Acknowledge limitations of the tamoxifen-chow labeling strategy in AsclCreER; hM4 experiments.

      Since tamoxifen chow administered over 4-7 weeks labels a heterogeneous abDGC population spanning a broad age range, this approach does not generate birth-dated cohorts. This limitation should be clearly addressed in the text and interpretations, particularly related to cell age-dependent effects, should be tempered.

      Reply in Public Review

      (4) Revise DREADD quantification using HA rather than mCitrine.

      The hM4 mouse line requires HA immunostaining to accurately identify Ascl-lineage cells expressing the DREADD receptor. Because mCitrine is not specific to adult-born neurons and does not reliably reflect hM4 expression, quantification based on mCitrine should be revised.

      Reply in Public Review

      (5) Include markers to assess abDGC maturation state.

      Adding quantification of DCX and NeuN would help define the developmental stage of abDGCs in key experiments and improve the interpretation of cell-age-dependent effects.

      Reply in Public Review

      (6) Clarify DG layer boundaries and terminology in Figure 2.

      If the metric labeled "Distance from the hilus" corresponds to the subgranular zone (SGZ), using SGZ terminology would prevent confusion. Additionally, please provide clearer delineation of DG and hilus borders in sample images.

      Reply in Public Review

      (7) Provide missing cell number data for Figures 2B and 2C.

      Reply in Public Review

      (8) Clarify the tamoxifen administration protocol in Figure 6.

      Please describe how the protocol selectively targets 6-7-week-old abDGCs and how it differs from the chow-based approach. This will help readers understand the intended specificity of the manipulation.

      Reply in Public Review

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) EdU birth-dating timeline

      The manuscript would benefit from a clearer description of the EdU birth-dating timeline, ideally with a schematic similar to that provided for BrdU in Supplementary Figure 1.

      We appreciate the suggestion. However, we did not include a separate schematic for EdU because its use and birth-dating logic are identical to BrdU (both are thymidine analogs administered systemically and incorporated during S-phase). Therefore, the timeline shown in Supplementary Figure 1 applies equally to both markers. We have clarified this point in the Methods section to avoid confusion.

      (2) Clarity of TUNL task description.

      The description of the TUNL task, particularly for readers unfamiliar with touchscreen-based paradigms, is difficult to follow without consulting prior literature. A simplified schematic or a clearer step-by-step explanation in the main text or supplementary material would improve accessibility.

      We note that the main steps of the TUNL protocol are illustrated in Figure 1A, Supplementary Figure 2A and 2B. Nevertheless, we agree that the description in the text can be made clearer for readers less familiar with touchscreen-based tasks. Thus , we have now revised the Methods section to provide a clearer step-by-step description of the TUNL.

      (3) Influence of outliers in Figure 1G.

      In Figure 1G, the reported trend that ~1% of 25-39-day-old abDGCs are TRAP+ during LS trials appears to be driven by a small number of outliers. This should be acknowledged, and the wording of the conclusion moderated to reflect the variability in the data.

      We agree with the reviewer that the apparent outliers reflect the inherent sparsity of TRAP labeling in this population. In absolute terms, this corresponds to between 0 and 2 TRAP⁺ 25–39-day-old abDGCs per mouse, such that the presence or absence of a small number of labeled cells can appear as outliers when expressed as a percentage. We have revised the text to acknowledge this (see Results).

      (4) Presentation of learning curves.

      Rather than focusing primarily on "days before criterion" (DBC), it would be helpful to show full learning curves across the entire training period. This would provide a clearer picture of acquisition dynamics and inter-animal variability.

      We agree that learning curves can be informative in many behavioral paradigms. However, in our protocol, mice do not undergo the same number of training days because training stops individually once each animal reaches criterion. As a result, plotting full learning curves would produce trajectories of different lengths, making group comparisons difficult and visually cluttered. For this reason, we aligned animals based on days before criterion (DBC), which allows direct comparison of learning dynamics relative to task acquisition. We also consider the cumulative probability representation to be the most appropriate way to summarize learning progression across animals in this context which are also included in the figures.

      (5) Clarification of Figure 3B labeling

      In Figure 3B, the identity of the orange-labeled group above the LS condition is unclear. Clarification in the figure legend would improve interoperability.

      Figure 3B includes two experimental groups. One group performed both the large- and small-separation conditions; this group is shown in orange and labeled LS. Within this group, the upper orange trace corresponds to performance in the large-separation condition, while the lower orange trace corresponds to performance in the small-separation condition. The second group is a control group that performed only the large-separation configuration, and therefore only a single green trace is shown. We agree that this distinction was not sufficiently clear and have revised the figure legend and text to clarify the identity of each trace.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Please label figures and, even better, put the legends on the same page.

      (2) Just to confirm, in establishing the task, mice performed above 70% for the small separation trials in one of the sessions on 2 consecutive days, for each criterion? Performance seems to be below 70%.

      Yes. To meet the criterion, each mouse had to reach ≥70% correct performance in at least one of the two daily sessions on two consecutive days. We then averaged the performance across both sessions for each of those days. As a result, if one session was ≥70% but the other was lower, the daily average could fall below 70%. The values shown in the figure correspond to these daily averages, further averaged across mice.

      (3) mGC needs to be explicitly defined. Am I assuming any non-birthdated GC is an mGC according to the authors? (which means it is unknown whether they are in fact mature, though likely most of them are).

      In this study, “mature granule cells” (mGCs) refer operationally to granule cells that are not birth-dated with BrdU or EdU and therefore are not classified as adult-born neurons within the defined labeling window. We agree that this population is not directly age-defined, and that while the majority are expected to be mature based on their birth timing relative to the labeling period, we cannot exclude the possibility that a small fraction may include younger, unlabeled neurons. We have now explicitly defined this usage of mGCs in the Methods and clarified this point in the text to avoid ambiguity.

      (4) Methods state that Kruskal-Wallis tests were used when more than 3 groups were compared, but I don't see these stats presented (e.g., for trap data in Figure 1, blade x task TRAP expt in Figure 3 (should be 2-way RM anova here and elsewhere), etc) or any corrections for multiple comparisons. I appreciate that the mean rates of TRAPed abGCs are higher in the S and LS groups than in the shaping group, but most mice do not have any BrdU+ cells that are also TRAPed, and there are no statistics here to support the claim. I don't think there is enough sampling to accurately quantify activation of abGCs. Also, no stats to support the claim that TRAPing increases at the "tip of the SB after the more demanding LS task".

      We agree with this comment. We have now systematically tested all datasets for normality (by group) and applied parametric tests when the data met normality assumptions, and non-parametric tests otherwise. The statistical analyses have been revised accordingly. We added the appropriate tests (including two-way ANOVA where relevant, such as for blade × group comparisons) and now report full statistics in the figure legends and results sections. For the TRAP analyses in adult-born DGCs, we explicitly acknowledge the very low number of BrdU⁺/TRAP⁺ cells, which limits statistical power and, in some cases, precludes robust statistical testing. These limitations are now clearly stated in the Results and Discussion, and the corresponding interpretations have been tempered. For all Kruskal–Wallis tests, post hoc pairwise comparisons were performed using Dunn’s test, with Bonferroni correction for multiple comparisons, as now specified in the Methods section. We also expanded the Methods to describe the statistical workflow in detail. In addition, we have added the previously missing statistical analysis for Figure 2C. Comparisons were performed between the 0–50% and 50–100% portions of the blade, where 0% corresponds to the apex and 100% corresponds to the distal tip of the blade.

      (5) Figure 3I: I can't figure out which effect is statistically significant here (what does the asterisk signify?). Why no individual data points in this graph?

      We agree that the absence of individual data points reduced interpretability, and we have now updated the figure to include individual data points to better illustrate data distribution and variability.

      (6) The gradient of activity (shap < S < LS) could be due to how long they've been trained on a given stage (e.g. less activity during shaping because they have habituated, and neurons encoding that task phase have already been selected)

      We agree that task duration and habituation could, in principle, influence activity levels. Under this interpretation, higher activity would primarily reflect task novelty rather than cognitive demand. However, our data do not support this explanation. Specifically, we found no correlation between the number of training days required to reach criterion and c-Fos–positive or TRAP-positive cell density within a given stage. Thus, animals that reached criterion rapidly did not show higher activity levels than animals that required more days of training and were presumably more habituated to the task demands. This suggests that the observed activity gradient (shaping < S < LS) is not driven by exposure duration or habituation, but rather reflects differences in cognitive demand across task stages.

      (7) The TRAP+ EDU+ cell in Figure 3 looks odd because the BrdU signal is (a lot) larger than the TRAP signal, but BrdU is in the nucleus and should be smaller.

      We agree that the example in Figure 3 is not optimal. In dividing cells, BrdU/EdU signals can sometimes appear broader or closely apposed, which may affect their apparent size.

      (8) For the Ascl-HM4Di experiment, HM4Di appears to be expressed in all of the areas of the granule cell layer where abGCs are NOT located (i.e. no expression in the deep cell layer, near the sgz). This is problematic because it suggests perhaps abGCs are not inhibited as expected.

      As noted in our response to Reviewer #1, we did not use the mCitrine to localize the DREADD receptor as it has been demonstrated that mCitrine expression is expressed in a Cre-independent manner and not correlated with hM4Di expression. In the revised manuscript we include a representative image were we performed immunostaining using an HA antibody to directly visualize hM4Di and confirm its expression in adult-born granule cells (Figure 5).

      (9) Line 267: "6-7 week old neurons by themselves do not influence either the performance of mice in the task". I don't think this is fair because this experiment wasn't designed with as much power to detect an effect. The group trends are in the same direction, but there are many fewer mice in this experiment (n=6/group) than in the =<7w experiment (n=11/group), where the effect just reached statistical significance.

      We are sorry for this confusion which came from an incorrect version. The experiment shown in Figure 6 does not target 6–7-week-old neurons specifically. It uses the same tamoxifen chow–based protocol as Figure 5, but with a shorter exposure (4 weeks vs. 7 weeks), thereby labeling a younger and more restricted cohort of adult-born DGCs. By contrast, Figure 4 targets a more mature population, consisting predominantly of ~5-week-old adult-born neurons as well as mature granule cells (Dock10+).

      We have corrected the paragraph accordingly and clarified the age range of the labeled populations in the revised manuscript.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      We thank the reviewers for their constructive comments. A central concern raised is the comparison of performance with existing motion-correction methods. In response, we performed motion correction using several widely used approaches and compared results using the number of particles detected by 2DTM and their associated SNR. To minimize potential bias, we selected parameters to give each method a comparable level of model flexibility so that the results are as directly comparable as possible. Overall, Unbend performs the best. We note that extensive, method-specific parameter optimization could further affect absolute performance, and a comprehensive benchmarking study is therefore beyond the scope of this work

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Kong et al.'s work describes a new approach that does exactly what the title states: "Correction of local beam-induced sample motion in cryo-EM images using a 3D spline model." I find the method appropriate, logical, and well-explained. Additionally, the work suggests using 2DTM-related measurements to quantify the improvement of the new method compared to the old one in cisTEM, Unblur. I find this part engaging; it is straightforward, accurate, and, of course, the group has a strong command of 2DTM, presenting a thorough study.

      However, everything in the paper (except some correct general references) refers to comparisons with the full-frame approach, Unblur. Still, we have known for more than a decade that local correction approaches perform better than global ones, so I do not find anything truly novel in their proposal of using local methods (the method itself- Unbend- is new, but many others have been described previously). In fact, the use of 2DTM is perhaps a more interesting novelty of the work, and here, a more systematic study comparing different methods with these proposed well-defined metrics would be very valuable. As currently presented, there is no doubt that it is better than an older, well-established approach, and the way to measure "better" is very interesting, but there is no indication of how the situation stands regarding newer methods.

      Regarding practical aspects, it seems that the current implementation of the method is significantly slower than other patch-based approaches. If its results are shown to exceed those of existing local methods, then exploring the use of Unbend, possibly optimizing its code first, could be a valuable task. However, without more recent comparisons, the impact of Unbend remains unclear.

      We thank the reviewer for this important point. We agree that comparing against modern local motion-correction approaches is a valuable task. To address this, we added a new benchmarking section (pp. 17–18, lines 444–492, Fig. 8, Fig. 8—figure supplement 1) that compares Unbend against widely used patch-based local correction methods, including MotionCor2, MotionCor3, Warp, and CryoSPARC. Using the same 2DTM-based metrics described in the manuscript (detections per micrograph and SNR distributions for commonly detected particles), we find that Unbend provides the most stable performance across the tested datasets and, in most cases, yields higher detection counts and higher SNR than the alternative methods.

      Regarding runtime, the current implementation is CPU-based and is therefore slower than some optimized GPU-accelerated packages. We now clarify this limitation in the manuscript (line 498–499). Our primary goal in this study is to improve motion-correction accuracy and quantify its impact using 2DTM-based measures. Importantly, higher-quality motion-corrected micrographs can reduce downstream processing cost (e.g., by increasing particle detection efficiency and reducing ambiguous candidates), so modest additional compute times at the motion-correction stage can be offset later in the workflow. We also note that GPU acceleration and additional code-level optimizations are planned for future releases (line 501-503); however, they are not required to evaluate the methodological contribution and the benchmarking results presented here.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors present a new method, Unbend, for measuring motion in cryo-EM images, with a particular emphasis on more challenging in situ samples such as lamella and whole cells (that can be more prone to overall motion and/or variability in motion across a field of view). Building on their previous approach of full-frame alignment (Unblur), they now perform full-frame alignment followed by patch alignment, and then use these outputs to generate a 3D cubic spline model of the motion. This model allows them to estimate a continuous, per-pixel shift field for each movie frame that aims to better describe complex motions and so ultimately generate improved motion-corrected micrographs. Performance of Unbend is evaluated using the 2D template matching (2DTM) method developed previously by the lab, and results are compared to using full-frame correction alone. Several different in situ samples are used for evaluation, covering a broad range that will be of interest to the rapidly growing in situ cryo-EM community.

      Strengths:

      The method appears to be an elegant way of describing complex motions in cryo-EM samples, and the authors present convincing data that Unbend generally improves SNR of aligned micrographs as well as increases detection of particles matching the 60S ribosome template when compared to using full-frame correction alone. The authors also give interesting insights into how different areas of a lamella behave with respect to motion by using Unbend on a montage dataset collected previously by the group. There is growing interest in imaging larger areas of in situ samples at high resolution, and these insights contribute valuable knowledge. Additionally, the availability of data collected in this study through the EMPIAR repository will be much appreciated by the field.

      Thank you for this positive assessment.

      Weaknesses:

      While the improvements with Unbend vs. Unblur appear clear, it is less obvious whether Unbend provides substantial gains over patch motion correction alone (the current norm in the field). It might be helpful for readers if this comparison were investigated for the in situ datasets. Additionally, the authors are open that in cases where full motion correction already does a good job, the extra degrees of freedom in Unbend can perhaps overfit the motions, making the corrections ultimately worse. I wonder if an adaptive approach could be explored, for example, using the readout from full-frame or patch correction to decide whether a movie should proceed to the full Unbend pipeline, or whether correction should stop at the patch estimation stage.

      We thank the reviewer for suggesting an adaptive criterion to decide whether to proceed patch alignment or not. We agree that such an approach could be valuable for efficiency and for avoiding unnecessary model flexibility. However, our results indicate that a simple criterion based on the magnitude of estimated local patch motion is unlikely to be sufficient. For example, in the BS-C-1 cell lysate dataset, (see line 412-417 on page 16), we observe minimal local motion (Figure 4b) with mean patch shifts of only 0.7Å and full-frame alignment already yields comparable detection counts, yet local correction still produces a measurable SNR gain (13.84 ± 0.04 to 14.25 ± 0.04, 3%) and improves SNR for ~70% of the commonly detected targets (Figure 6c). This suggests that residual local distortion can remain even when overall local motion appears small. Establishing a robust, dataset-agnostic stopping rule would therefore require a dedicated, systematic benchmarking study across many samples and acquisition conditions.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary

      Kong and coauthors describe and implement a method to correct local deformations due to beam-induced motion in cryo-EM movie frames. This is done by fitting a 3D spline model to a stack of micrograph frames using cross-correlation-based local patch alignment to describe the deformations across the micrograph in each frame, and then computing the value of the deformed micrograph at each pixel by interpolating the undeformed micrograph at the displacement positions given by the spline model. A graphical interface in cisTEM allows the user to visualise the deformations in the sample, and the method has been proven to be successful by showing improvements in 2D template matching (2DTM) results on the corrected micrographs using five in situ samples.

      Impact

      This method has great potential to further streamline the cryo-EM single particle analysis pipeline by shortening the required processing time as a result of obtaining higher quality particles early in the pipeline, and is applicable to both old and new datasets, therefore being relevant to all cryo-EM users.

      Strengths

      (1) One key idea of the paper is that local beam induced motion affects frames continuously in space (in the image plane) as well as in time (along the frame stack), so one can obtain improvements in the image quality by correcting such deformations in a continuous way (deformations vary continuously from pixel to pixel and from frame to frame) rather than based on local discrete patches only. 3D splines are used to model the deformations: they are initialised using local patch alignments and further refined using cross-correlation between individual patch frames and the average of the other frames in the same patch stack.

      (2) Another strength of the paper is using 2DTM to show that correcting such deformations continuously using the proposed method does indeed lead to improvements. This is shown using five in situ datasets, where local motion is quantified using statistics based on the estimated motions of ribosomes.

      Thank you for this positive assessment.

      Weaknesses

      (1) While very interesting, it is not clear how the proposed method using 3D splines for estimating local deformations compares with other existing methods that also aim to correct local beam-induced motion by approximating the deformations throughout the frames using other types of approximation, such as polynomials, as done, for example MotionCor2.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. We agree that positioning Unbend relative to existing local motion-correction methods is important. In the revised manuscript, we added a dedicated benchmarking section comparing Unbend with widely used local correction approaches, including MotionCor2, MotionCor3, Warp, and CryoSPARC, using the same 2DTM-based metrics (Fig. 8, Fig. 8—figure supplement 1). This section is included on pp. 17–18, lines 444–492. To make the comparison as fair as possible, we matched nominal model flexibility across methods and otherwise used default parameters to reduce method-specific tuning. This expanded comparison provides a direct baseline against current patch-/spline-based approaches and shows that Unbend performs consistently across the in situ datasets evaluated here, with improvements in detection counts and/or SNR in multiple cases.

      (2) The use of 2DTM is appropriate, and the results of the analysis are enlightening, but one shortcoming is that some relevant technical details are missing. For example, the 2DTM SNR is not defined in the article, and it is not clear how the authors ensured that no false positives were included in the particles counted before and after deformation correction. The Jupyter notebooks where this analysis was performed have not been made publicly available.

      We agree that these technical details improve clarity and reproducibility. We have therefore made three changes.

      (1) Definition of 2DTM SNR. We added an explicit definition of the 2DTM SNR in Section “2DTM provides a one-step verification for motion correction”, pp. 11, lines 277–287). Briefly, at each image location we compute cross-correlation values over the searched orientation space and define the 2DTM SNR as the maximum per location z-score across orientations.

      (2) False-positive control / detection threshold. We clarified how detection thresholds were set to control false positives (pp. 11, lines 285–287). Specifically, we used the standard 2DTM statistical framework in which the threshold  is chosen using the one-false-positive (1-FP) criterion (or equivalently, a specified expected false-positive rate). We applied the same thresholding procedure consistently across all motion-corrected micrographs. This ensures that particle counts before/after correction reflect changes in signal recovery.

      (3) Reproducibility of the analysis. We have made the script used for the benchmarking and figure generation publicly available (pp. 24 line 622-623), and we provide a link in the Data Availability statement (pp. 25 line 650). The repository includes sample .star files and a python package that computes detections per micrograph, commonly detected particles, and SNR comparisons.

      (3) It is also not clear how the proposed deformation correction method is affected by CTF defocus in the different samples (are the defocus values used in the different datasets similar or significantly different?) or if there is any effect at all.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this point. In the revised manuscript, we now report the defocus ranges used for each dataset (Table 1) and clarify that all motion-correction comparisons were performed within each dataset using the same CTF estimation and 2DTM settings (pp. 23 line 615-618). Across the five datasets, four were collected at similar defocus ranges (1.0 µm to 1.5µm), whereas one dataset includes near-focus (0.4 µm) micrographs (Table 1). Because Unbend operates on frame alignment/warping rather than CTF modeling, we do not expect a defocus specific effect beyond indirect influences through image SNR and reliability of cross-correlation-based alignment.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The obvious recommendation would be to use their 2DTM approach for a comparison of their new method with other currently used ones

      We agree and added a new comparison section (pp. 17–18, lines 444–492). Addressed above in Response to Reviewer #1 Public Review.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Line 29, typo. 3 ~ 8% > 3 - 8%.

      Corrected.

      (2) Lines 220 and 226. Should this be e-/Angstrom squared for the exposure?

      Corrected to e<sup>-</sup>/Å<sup>2</sup> (Now pp. 9 lines 230, 236).

      (3) Figure 2 c-d. These are good for instinctively seeing the movement, but I found the legend confusing, as a 10 x 10 pixel array is mentioned, yet the schematics show a higher sampling (30 x 30 pixels? in c-e).

      Thank you for pointing this out. The “10×10” annotation refers to the physical scale, whereas the grid represents pixel sampling. We removed the “10×10” label and now show only the pixel grid to avoid confusion. The caption has been updated to state that the grid corresponds to a 30×30 pixel sampling. (Fig. 2c, d; pp. 31, line 766)

      (4) Figure 4. It would be good if the n of movies analyzed was given in the figure legend.

      Thank you for noticing this. We report the number of movies per dataset in the corresponding summary table (Table 1).

      (5) Figure 5. X/Y axes labels missing (assume pixels). Also, suggest changing the strain scale to % to match the main text description of this figure.

      We added X/Y axis labels, changed the strain scale to % (Figure 5), and specified that the strains are per pixel on pp. 14 line 367. Correspondingly, the X/Y labels and strain scale in strain plots in Figure 4—figure supplementary 1 to 5 are also changed.

      (6) Unify labelling of Figure 4 and 6 (i.e., Bacteria vs. M. pneumoniae, etc.).

      Corrected. Sample labels are now consistent across figures. (Figures 4 and 6)

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Some recommendations related to the points mentioned in the 'Weaknesses' section in the public review:

      (1) If feasible, it would be useful to see a comparison with other existing methods that estimate local deformations (e.g., MotionCor2), at least on some of the datasets. For example, does the proposed method lead to better 2DTM SNR in the detected particles compared to other methods, or higher detection numbers? Alternatively, if such a comparison would require too much additional work and the authors have good reasons to believe that the results are evident, it would be helpful to include a discussion about why the proposed method is expected to perform better, both in terms of the general approach and specific implementation details.

      We agree that this comparison is important. (pp. 17–18, lines 444–492). Addressed above in Response to Reviewer #3 Public Review (1).

      (2) It would be useful to define the 2DTM SNR in the main text of the paper, as well as to address the point about false positives in the picked particles.

      We added an explicit definition of 2DTM SNR and clarified the detection thresholding/false-positive control used in our analysis (pp. 11, lines 277–287). Addressed above in Response to Reviewer #3 Public Review (2.1 and 2.2).

      (3) Regarding the results shown in Figures 4 and 6: do the authors have any insight about how the CTF defocus affects the deformation estimation and correction across the different sample types?

      We now report the defocus ranges used for each dataset (Table 1). We have addressed this problem in Response to Reviewer #3 Public Review (3).

      (4) Will the Jupyter notebooks used for the 2DTM analysis be made publicly available?

      Yes. We have deposited a python script used for the 2DTM benchmarking and figure generation in a public repository and added the link in Data Availability statement. (pp. 23 line 622, pp. 25 line 650). Addressed above in Response to Reviewer #3 Public Review (2.3).

      (5) I would also appreciate a few words about the implementation details of the 3D spline model (e.g., what libraries have been used, if any, or if the authors have implemented their own code for this).

      The 3D spline model and warping code were implemented by us (no external spline library was used) and the relevant implementation details are described in the “Sample distortion modeling and correction” section (pp. 7–10, lines 174–246). For optimization, we used the L-BFGS implementation provided by the dlib library, which is now explicitly cited (pp. 10, line 264).

      Some comments regarding the presentation of the work:

      (1) I found the mathematical background on splines on pages 7-9 a little distracting from the main ideas of the paper, and I believe it could be moved to the methods section. A short description of this in the main text of the paper would suffice, and it would be useful to state clearly when this is background material and when it is the authors' contribution.

      We appreciate the suggestion. Because Unbend includes an in-house spline implementation (no external spline library) and it is the central part of this work, we retained the spline description to support reproducibility. (pp. 7–10, lines 174–246).

      (2) More generally, I found the whole method very interesting, but understanding exactly what all the steps involved were was a bit cumbersome, as they are spread across different sections of the main text. I think it would be useful to have a dedicated section giving the exact steps taken in the algorithm, possibly pointing to the relevant section in the text for more details about each step. This could be, for example, in the form of an 'Algorithm' box or a flowchart.

      We added an Algorithm box as Figure 2 supplement summarizing the end-to-end workflow and pointing to the relevant sections for details (Figure 2—figure supplement 1 Algorithm, pp. 4, line 96–103, pp. 32 line 799). This is intended to make the sequence of steps easier to follow.

      (3) In Figure 3, panels (b) and (c), the difference between the two micrographs, before and after correction, is not very noticeable, particularly the Thon rings in the spectra. I don't know if this is due to the image quality in the paper or if a better example could be shown. For example, the differences are clear in some of the supplementary figures.

      Thank you for the suggestion. We revised the figure by adding annotations to show the recovered Thon rings. This figure shows a vertex motion and is intended not only to show improvement but also to illustrate complex, spatially varying deformation patterns that motivate the 3D spline model (pp. 12, lines 304–308). The supplementary figures display those with highest motions in each sample type, thus the Thon rings for the motion corrected micrograph in higher frequency space look more obvious. We also refer readers to the supplementary examples where the differences are more pronounced (pp. 12, lines 310–312).

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Here Bansal et al., present a study on the fundamental blood and nectar feeding behaviors of the critical disease vector, Anopheles stephensi. The study encompasses not just the fundamental changes in blood feeding behaviors of the crucially understudied vector, but then use a transcriptomic approach to identify candidate neuromodulation path ways which influence blood feeding behavior in this mosquito species. The authors then provide evidence through RNAi knockdown of candidate pathways that the neuromodulators sNPF and Rya modulate feeding either via their physiological activity in the brain alone or through joint physiological activity along the brain-gut axis (but critically not the gut alone). Overall, I found this study to be built on tractable, well-designed behavioral experiments.

      Their study begins with a well-structured experiment to assess how the feeding behaviors of A. stephensi changes over the course of its life history and in response to its age, mating and oviposition status. The authors are careful and validate their experimental paradigm in the more well-studied Ae. aegypti, and are able to recapitulate the results of prior studies which show that mating is pre-requisite for blood feeding behaviors in Ae. aegypt. Here they find A. stephensi like another Anopheline mosquitoes has a more nuanced regulation of its blood and nectar feeding behaviors.

      The authors then go on to show in a Y- maze olfactometer that to some degree, changes in blood feeding status depend on behavioral modulation to host-cues, and this is not likely to be a simple change to the biting behaviors alone. I was especially struck by the swap in valence of the host-cues for the blood-fed and mated individuals which had not yet oviposited. This indicates that there is a change in behavior that is not simply desensitization to host-cues while navigating in flight, but something much more exciting happening.

      The authors then use a transcriptomic approach to identify candidate genes in the blood feeding stages of the mosquito's life cycle to identify a list of 9 candidates which have a role in regulating the host-seeking status of A. stephensi. Then through investigations of gene knockdown of candidates they identify the dual action of RYa and sNPF and candidate neuromodulators of host-seeking in this species. Overrall, I found the experiments to be welldesigned. I found the molecular approach to be sound. While I do not think the molecular approach is necessarily an all-encompassing mechanism identification (owing mostly to the fact that genetic resources are not yet available in A. stephensi as they are in other dipteran models), I think it sets up a rich lines of research questions for the neurobiology of mosquito behavioral plasticity and comparative evolution of neuromodulator action.

      Strengths:

      I am especially impressed by the authors' attention to small details in the course of this article. As I read and evaluated this article I continued to think how many crucial details I may have missed if I were the scientist conducting these experiments. That attention to detail paid off in spades and allowed the authors to carefully tease apart molecular candidates of blood-seeking stages. The authors top down approach to identifying RYamide and sNPF starting from first principles behavioral experiments is especially comprehensive. The results from both the behavioral and molecular target studies will have broad implications for the vectorial capacity of this species and comparative evolution of neural circuit modulation.

      I believe the authors have adequately addressed all of my concerns; however, I think an accompanying figure to match the explained methods of the tissue-specific knockdown would help readers. The methods are now explicitly written for the timing and concentrations required to achieve tissue-specific knockdown, but seeing the data as a supplement would be especially reassuring given the critical nature of tissue-specific knockdown to the final interpretations of this paper.

      We thank the reviewer for the suggestion and have now incorporated a schematic in the supplementary figure S9B, explaining our methodology for achieving tissue-specific knockdowns.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, Bansal et al examine and characterize feeding behaviour in Anopheles stephensi mosquitoes. While sharing some similarities to the well-studied Aedes aegypti mosquito, the authors demonstrate that mated-females, but not unmated (virgin) females, exhibit suppression in their blood-feeding behaviour. Using brain transcriptomic analysis comparing sugar fed, blood fed and starved mosquitoes, several candidate genes potentially responsible for influencing blood-feeding behaviour were identified, including two neuropeptides (short NPF and RYamide) that are known to modulate feeding behaviour in other mosquito species. Using molecular tools including in situ hybridization, the authors map the distribution of cells producing these neuropeptides in the nervous system and in the gut. Further, by implementing systemic RNA interference (RNAi), the study suggests that both neuropeptides appear to promote blood-feeding (but do not impact sugar feeding) although the impact was observed only after both neuropeptide genes underwent knockdown.

      While the authors have addressed most of the concerns of the original manuscript, a few issues remain. Particularly, the following two points:

      (5) Figure 4

      The authors state that there is more efficient knockdown in the head of unfed females; however, this is not accurate since they only get knockdown in unfed animals, and no evidence of any knockdown in fed animals (panel D). This point should be revised in the results test as well.

      Perhaps we do not understand the reviewer's point or there has been a misunderstanding. In Figure 4D, we show that while there is more robust gene knockdown in unfed females, bloodfed females also showed modest but measurable knockdowns ranging from 5-40% for RYamide and 2-21% for sNPF.

      NEW-

      In both the dsRNA treatments where animals were fed, neither was significantly different from control. Therefore, there is no change, and indeed this is confirmed by the author's labelling of the figure stats in panel 4D.

      We agree with the reviewer and thank them for pointing it out. We have now revised the figure legend and the text to reflect these results (see lines 351-354).

      In addition, do the uninjected and dsGFP-injected relative mRNA expression data reflect combined RYa and sNPF levels? Why is there no variation in these data,...

      In these qPCRs, we calculated relative mRNA expression using the delta-delta Ct method (see line 975). For each neuropeptide its respective control was used. For simplicity, we combined the RYa and sNPF control data into a single representation. The value of this control is invariant because this method sets the control baseline to a value of 1.

      NEW-

      The authors are claiming that there is no variation between individual qPCR experiments (particularly in their controls)? Normally, one uses a known standard value (or calibrator) across multiple experiments/plates so that variation across biological replicates can be assessed. This has an impact on statistical analyses since there is no variation in the control data. Indeed, this impacts all figures/datasets in the manuscript where qPCR data is presented. All the controls have zero variation!

      We are truly thankful to this reviewer for insisting on this point. It has made us revisit what we thought we understood and now realise were doing wrong (though many in literature do it this way!). We were – incorrectly – setting each control to 1 and calculating relative fold changes for each replicate independently. While this is often seen in literature, we now realise that it is incorrect. We have revisited all our analyses and normalized all samples to the mean ΔCt of the control group, which captures biological variation in both control and experimental groups. All data are now re-plotted to show individual data points for both control and experimental groups, and the error bars on controls represent the biological variation across replicates (Figure 4D, 4F, 4G, S8, S9). Statistical analyses were also revised accordingly, and, importantly, they do not change any conclusions. Please note that the abdominal expression of sNPF and RYa are so low that the controls show very variable baseline expression values.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This manuscript investigates the regulation of host-seeking behavior in Anopheles stephensi females across different life stages and mating states. Through transcriptomic profiling, the authors identify differential gene expression between "blood-hungry" and "blood-sated" states. Two neuropeptides, sNPF and RYamide, are highlighted as potential mediators of host-seeking behavior. RNAi knockdown of these peptides alters host-seeking activity, and their expression is anatomically mapped in the mosquito brain (sNPF and RYamide) and midgut (sNPF only).

      Strengths:

      (1) The study addresses an important question in mosquito biology, with relevance to vector control and disease transmission.

      Transcriptomic profiling is used to uncover gene expression changes linked to behavioral states.

      (2) The identification of sNPF and RYamide as candidate regulators provides a clear focus for downstream mechanistic work.

      (3) RNAi experiments demonstrate that these neuropeptides are necessary for normal hostseeking behavior.

      (4) Anatomical localization of neuropeptide expression adds depth to the functional findings.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The title implies that the neuropeptides promote host-seeking, but sufficiency is not demonstrated and some conclusions appear premature based on the current data. The support for this conclusion would be strengthened with functional validation using peptide injection or genetic manipulation.

      (2) The identification of candidate receptors is promising, but the manuscript would be significantly strengthened by testing whether receptor knockdowns phenocopy peptide knockdowns. Without this, it is difficult to conclude that the identified receptors mediate the behavioral effects.

      (3) Some important caveats, such as variation in knockdown efficiency and the possibility of offtarget effects, are not adequately discussed.

      These comments were addressed in the previous round.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Awesome paper everyone. A delight to read and review.

      Thank you very much! We appreciated your comments too!

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      (1) While the study interprets the emergence of more distinct texture representations in the dark as evidence of rapid cross-modal plasticity, the claim rests on correlational data from a short-term manipulation and decoding analysis. The authors show that CNN-derived feature embeddings cluster more clearly by texture in the dark, but this does not directly demonstrate plasticity in the classical sense (e.g., synaptic or circuit-level reorganization).

      Thank you for this insightful comment. We acknowledge that our claim of “rapid cross-modal plasticity” is based on correlational evidence and does not directly address synaptic or circuit-level reorganization, which would require more invasive methods. Our study instead focuses on changes in the representational structure of tactile stimuli when visual input is temporarily removed, highlighting the adaptability of sensory coding to environmental context. We agree that this distinction is important and have revised the manuscript to clarify that the observed changes reflect functional reorganization rather than structural plasticity, as indicated by the enhanced separability of texture representations in S1 during darkness.

      (2) Although gait was controlled, changes in arousal or exploratory behavior in light versus dark conditions might contribute to the observed neural differences. These factors are acknowledged but not directly measured (e.g., via pupillometry or cortical state indicators).

      Thank you for your insightful comment. We agree that arousal and exploratory behavior could influence neural differences and have considered these factors in our study. While gait was controlled, we did not directly measure arousal (e.g., via pupillometry or cortical indicators).

      To partially address this, we reviewed locomotor-speed traces (Supplementary Figure 1), which showed no significant differences between light and dark conditions, suggesting movement speed did not drive the neural differences. We also reversed the order of light and dark conditions, and although the separability of textures was not significantly different, it further supports that motivation did not confound our results.

      However, we acknowledge that arousal may still affect cortical dynamics, especially in the dark condition, where the lack of visual input might alter exploratory behavior. Due to technical limitations, we could not directly measure arousal states, and this is now discussed in the revised manuscript. While we cannot rule out the influence of arousal, the enhanced separability of texture representations suggests that sensory reorganization due to visual deprivation likely played a substantial role.

      (3) Moreover, the time course of the observed changes (within 10 minutes) is quite rapid, and while intriguing, the study does not include direct evidence that the underlying circuits were reorganized - only that population-level signals become more discriminable. As such, the term "plasticity" may overstate the conclusions and should be interpreted with caution unless validated by additional causal or longitudinal data.

      Thank you for your important comment. We agree that the term "plasticity" may overstate our conclusions, as our study focuses on population-level signal changes rather than direct evidence of circuit-level reorganization.

      To address this, we have revised the manuscript to clarify that while the observed changes in neural separability suggest functional reorganization of sensory representations, they do not confirm structural plasticity. We have updated the wording throughout the manuscript to emphasize that these findings reflect functional reorganization in response to short-term visual input loss, rather than structural or long-term plasticity.

      We also updated the discussion to highlight the need for future research with more invasive approaches to validate the causal mechanisms behind these rapid changes in neural dynamics.

      (4) The study highlights the forelimb region of S1 and a post-contact temporal window as particularly important for decoding texture, based on occlusion and integrated gradient analyses. However, this finding may be somewhat circular: The LFPs were aligned to forelimb contact, and the floor textures were sensed primarily via the forelimbs, making it unsurprising that forelimb electrodes were most informative. The observed temporal window corresponds directly to the event-aligned epoch, and while it may shift slightly in duration in the dark, this could reflect general differences in sensory gain or arousal, rather than changes in stimulus-specific encoding. Thus, while these findings are consistent with somatotopy and context-dependent dynamics, they do not provide strong independent evidence for novel spatial or temporal organization.

      Thank you for your insightful comment. We understand your concern that the finding of forelimb electrodes being most informative might seem circular, given that the LFPs were aligned to forelimb contact, and the floor textures were primarily sensed by the forelimbs. This design choice was intentional, as the task focused on texture perception through the forelimb, and the forelimb subregion of S1 is naturally expected to play a dominant role in this process. While this somatotopic specificity may make the results predictable, our aim was to emphasize the changes in temporal dynamics of neural processing under visual deprivation.

      We observed a shift in the temporal window's duration in the dark condition, which we interpret as a change in how texture information is processed without visual input. While this could reflect sensory gain or arousal differences, the lack of significant differences in locomotor speed or other behavioral measures (Supplementary Figure 1) suggests that these changes are more likely due to functional reorganization of sensory processing.

      We have clarified in the discussion that the shift in the temporal window is consistent with previous research on sensory reorganization involving both spatial and temporal cortical adjustments. While we do not claim novel spatial or temporal organization, we emphasize that the shift in temporal dynamics suggests adaptation in encoding strategy for texture perception in the absence of visual input. Future studies measuring arousal states (e.g., pupil diameter or cortical state markers) would help distinguish the contributions of arousal versus sensory reorganization to these dynamics.

      (5) While the neural data suggest enhanced tactile representations, the study does not assess whether rats' actual tactile perception improved. Without a behavioral readout (e.g., discrimination accuracy), claims about perceptual enhancement remain speculative.

      Thank you for raising this important point. We agree that while the neural data suggest enhanced separability of tactile representations in the dark condition, we do not directly assess whether these changes translate into improved tactile perception behaviorally.

      However, the primary aim of our study is not to claim perceptual enhancement, but to demonstrate that neural representations in the somatosensory cortex can rapidly reorganize in response to visual deprivation. To clarify this distinction, we have revised the manuscript to emphasize that the observed neural changes in S1 are consistent with functional reorganization of tactile representations, rather than a direct indication of perceptual improvement.

      Future studies will be crucial to directly test whether the enhanced separability of tactile representations in S1 correlates with improved tactile perception in a behavioral task. We have highlighted this as an avenue for future research to better understand the link between neural changes and perceptual outcomes.

      (6) In addition to point 4, the authors discuss implications for sensory rehabilitation, including Braille training and haptic feedback enhancement. However, the lack of actual chronic or even more acute pathological sensory deprivation, behavioral data, or subsequent intervention in this study limits the ability to draw translational conclusions. It remains unknown whether the more distinct neural representations observed actually translate into better tactile performance, discriminability, or perception. Additionally, extrapolating from rats walking on sandpaper in the dark to human rehabilitative contexts is speculative without a clearer behavioral or mechanistic bridge. The potential is certainly there, but the claim is currently aspirational rather than empirically grounded.

      Thank you for raising this important point. Upon careful consideration, we have decided to remove the discussion of sensory rehabilitation implications from the revised manuscript. We have refocused the manuscript to concentrate solely on the neural findings related to tactile encoding reorganization in response to short-term sensory deprivation, avoiding speculative extrapolation to human rehabilitative contexts. This revised approach ensures that the manuscript emphasizes the empirical findings without overstating the translational potential.

      (7) While the CNN showed good performance, details on generalization robustness and validation (e.g., cross-validation folds, variance across animals) are not deeply discussed. Also, while explainability tools were used, interpretability of CNNs remains limited, and more transparent models (e.g., linear classifiers or dimensionality reduction) could offer complementary insights.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s valuable feedback. In response to the concern about generalization robustness and validation, we have now conducted 5-fold cross-validation to assess the model's performance within animals (Figure 6C). We also have added supplementary information on the average silhouette scores across the different folds and animals (Supplementary Table 1, 2). These details are provided in the methods section and discussed in the results to offer a clearer picture of the model's robustness and consistency across rats.

      Regarding the interpretability of CNNs, we acknowledge that deep learning models can lack transparency. We also attempted classification using more transparent models such as PCA and SVM, but their performance did not exceed chance level (Supplementary Figure 2). This indicates that while these simpler models are more interpretable, they cannot capture the complex representations in the LFPs, making deep learning models like CNNs necessary for extracting these insights.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      (1) Despite applying explainability techniques to the CNN-based decoder, the study does not clearly demonstrate the precise "subtle, high-dimensional patterns" exploited by the CNN for surface roughness decoding, limiting the physiological interpretability of the results. Additional analyses (e.g., detailed waveform morphology analysis on grand averages, time-frequency decompositions, or further use of explainability methods) are necessary to clarify the exact nature of the discriminative activity features enabling the CNN to decode surface roughness and how these change with the sensory context (i.e., in light or darkness).

      Thank you for your insightful comment. We recognize the importance of clarifying the exact nature of the high-dimensional neural patterns that the CNN exploits for surface roughness decoding. In response, we have performed additional analyses to provide a more detailed explanation of the CNN's decision-making process and the discriminative features it learned:

      Grand-Average LFP Waveforms Analysis: We calculated the grand-average LFP waveforms for each texture × lighting condition (Figure 4A). While visual inspection did not reveal distinct features in the averaged waveforms, we explored the channel-wise correlations between textures under both light and dark conditions (Figure 4B). We found that the correlation between textures was lower in the dark condition, suggesting that LFPs become more distinct between textures when visual input is absent, which aligns with the CNN’s output.

      Time-Frequency Decomposition (Wavelet Analysis): We also performed time-frequency decomposition of the LFPs using wavelet transforms (Figure 4D). No prominent differences emerged across texture × lighting conditions in the spectral domain. However, upon computing differences in wavelet features between light and dark conditions and analyzing the relationship with the CNN's attribution scores (Supplementary Figures 5A-C), we observed a negative correlation in the 50-60 Hz range and a positive correlation in the 80-90 Hz range. This suggests frequency-specific modulation in LFP activity that may contribute to texture representations, providing further support for the CNN’s learned features.

      (2) The claim regarding cross-modal representation reorganization heavily relies on a silhouette analysis (Figure 5C), which shows a modest effect size and borderline statistical significance (p≈0.05 with n=9+2). More rigorous statistical quantification, such as permutation tests and reporting underlying cluster distances for all animals, would strengthen confidence in this finding.

      Thank you for your thoughtful comment. We appreciate your suggestion to strengthen the statistical rigor of our analysis regarding the cross-modal representation reorganization. In response, we have implemented several additional analyses to more rigorously quantify the separability of neural representations between light and dark conditions:

      (1) Permutation Test for Cluster Separability: We performed a permutation test to assess whether the observed differences in cluster separability between light and dark conditions were statistically significant or could have arisen by chance. The results showed that the silhouette scores for the dark condition consistently exceeded the 95th percentile of the null distribution (Supplementary Figure 4). This permutation test strengthens the validity of our findings, indicating that the enhanced separability in darkness is a systematic reorganization of neural representations, not due to random fluctuations.

      (2) Reporting Cluster Distances: To address concerns about the modest effect size and borderline significance, we have explicitly reported the underlying cluster distances in the form of silhouette scores for each individual animal (Supplementary Table 1, 2). These values reflect the Euclidean distance between clusters within each rat, providing a clearer understanding of the separability observed.

      (3) Additional Statistical Analysis on Silhouette Scores: To further enhance the rigor of our statistical analysis, we recalculated the silhouette scores using 5-fold cross-validation within each animal, ensuring that our results are robust across multiple data splits (Figure 6C).

      By incorporating these additional analyses and reporting detailed cluster distances, we believe we have significantly strengthened the confidence in our claim of cross-modal reorganization.

      (3) While the authors recorded in the somatosensory cortex, primarily known for its tactile responsivity, I would be cautious not to rule out a priori the presence of crossmodal (visual) responses in the area. In this case, the stronger texture separation in darkness might be explained by the absence of some visually-evoked potentials (VEPs) rather than genuine cross-modal reorganization. Clarification is needed to rule out visual interference and this would strengthen the claim.

      Thank you for raising this important point. In response to your concern, we carefully examined whether visually-evoked potentials (VEPs) could be present in the S1 recordings, particularly under the light condition. However, we observed that this experiment did not involve any cue-guided visual stimulation, such as flashing lights or visual cues aligned with the LFP recordings. Without such external visual stimuli, it is unlikely that VEPs would be reliably evoked in the S1. Therefore, we believe the stronger texture separation observed in the dark condition is not due to visual interference, but rather reflects a genuine sensory reorganization in response to the absence of visual input.

      (4) Behavioural controls are limited to gross gait parameters; more detailed analyses of locomotor behavior and additional metrics (e.g., pupil size or locomotor variance) would robustly rule out potential arousal or motor confounds.

      Thank you for your insightful comment regarding behavioral controls. In response, we have added locomotor speed traces aligned with corresponding LFPs (Supplementary Figure 1) to demonstrate that locomotion remained consistent across trials, irrespective of environmental condition (light vs. dark). Additionally, we report locomotor speed variance over 10-minute blocks to confirm no significant motor changes affecting neural recordings. These analyses indicate that LFP differences are unlikely due to locomotor confounds.

      While measuring pupil size could be useful for assessing arousal, the camera resolution in our study was insufficient for reliable measurements. We have noted this limitation in the Discussion and recommend that future studies with high-resolution eye-tracking explore arousal's role in sensory processing in S1.

      (5) The consistent ordering of trials (10 minutes of light then 10 minutes of dark) could introduce confounds such as fatigue or satiation (and also related arousal state), which should be controlled by analyzing sessions with reversed condition ordering.

      Thank you for highlighting the potential confounds due to trial ordering. To address this, we reversed the condition order (dark before light) in a subset of sessions from six rats and reanalyzed the data (Supplementary Figure 3). The results showed not significant, but increase separability in the dark condition, suggesting that the enhanced separability in the dark condition is not due to trial order effects like fatigue or satiation. While order effects may contribute to trial-to-trial variability, the consistent pattern of enhanced separability in the dark further supports the interpretation that visual deprivation directly influences the reorganization of tactile representations in S1.

      (6) The focus on forelimb-aligned LFP analyses raises the possibility that hindlimb-aligned data might yield different conclusions, suggesting alignment effects might bias the results.

      Thank you for your insightful comment on the potential bias of forelimb-aligned LFP analyses. We acknowledge that the choice of alignment event can influence the results and appreciate the suggestion to consider hindlimb-aligned data. However, our experimental design specifically focused on forelimb S1. The forelimb region of S1 was oversampled in our array, and as expected, we observed larger responses there, consistent with the known somatotopic organization of S1.

      While hindlimb-aligned data could provide additional insights, it is not directly relevant to the primary question of how forelimb S1 codes tactile information under visual deprivation. We do not believe the forelimb alignment introduces a bias, as it aligns with the sensory task being investigated. However, we recognize the value of exploring alternative alignments and have now included a discussion in the Methods section regarding the rationale for our design choices.

      (7) The authors' dismissal of amplitude-based metrics as ineffective is inadequately substantiated. A clearer demonstration (e.g., event-related waveforms averaged by conditions, presented both spatially and temporally) would support this claim.

      Thank you for your constructive comment. In response, we have added a more detailed analysis of event-related waveforms, averaged across conditions (light vs. dark, smooth vs. rough textures), and presented them spatially and temporally aligned to forelimb contact (Figure 4A). These waveforms did not show clear, distinct features that could differentiate conditions, which highlights the limitations of traditional amplitude-based metrics in detecting subtle neural activity changes related to visual deprivation.

      We further performed channel-wise correlation analyses (Figure 4B), revealing stronger texture correlations in the light condition, indicating that averaged waveforms do not capture the nuanced differences in neural dynamics. Additionally, time-frequency spectrograms and channel–channel correlation matrices (Figures 4C and 4D) did not show distinct condition differences, reinforcing the limitations of amplitude-based metrics.

      These findings, along with the superior performance of machine learning-based decoding methods (e.g., CNN), support our claim that amplitude-based approaches are insufficient for fully capturing the complexity of the neural data.

      (8) Wording ambiguity regarding "attribution score" versus "activation amplitude" (Figure 5) complicates the interpretation of key findings. This distinction must be clarified for proper assessment of the results.

      Thank you for pointing out the ambiguity between "attribution score" and "activation amplitude." To address this, we have revised the manuscript to use "attribution score" only.

      (9) Generalization across animals remains unaddressed. The current within-subject decoding setup limits conclusions regarding shared neural representations across individuals. Adopting cross-validation strategies and exploring between-animal analyses would add significant value to the manuscript.

      Thank you for highlighting the importance of generalization across animals. While our study focused on within-subject decoding, we acknowledge that this limits conclusions about shared neural representations across individuals. We expect that inter-animal generalization would be challenging, as models trained on data from a single rat may not perform well on data from others due to differences in electrode placement, brain anatomy, and neural representations. We recognize the value of cross-validation strategies and between-animal analyses and will consider them in future work to address this limitation.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) I would strongly recommend that the authors refine their introduction to be more concise. Many concepts and study aims are repeated many times and, therefore, present as highly redundant text. The introduction may be half the length and still contain the important concepts to set up the justification for the study. I would also suggest refining to be less about sensory deprivation (e.g., with blindness) and more in relation to context, as the acute nature of the study allows one to conclude more about the latter than the former.

      Thank you for your feedback on the introduction. We have revised the section to reduce redundancy and present the key concepts more concisely. We also streamlined the study aims and focused more on the context of the acute nature of the study, as you suggested, rather than emphasizing sensory deprivation. This revision better aligns with the main focus of the research and improves clarity. We believe the updated introduction provides a more direct justification for the study.

      (2) I am not sure if Figures 1-3 are meant to be in grey-scale for some reason (perhaps to represent light and dark), but I would encourage the authors to examine if this is necessary, as the use of color generally helps one more easily follow Figures.

      Thank you for this suggestion. Upon review, we agree that the use of color would enhance the clarity and readability of our figures. We have revised the figures including the newly added supplementary figures to incorporate color.

      (3) Figure 5, Figure legend title - check wording.

      Thank you for pointing this out. The title has been adjusted for consistency with the other figure legends.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Analyses that would strengthen the main claims (major):

      (a) Identify the features exploited by the CNN.

      (i) Provide grand-average LFP waveforms for each texture × lighting condition (fore- and hind-limb channels shown separately, spatially arranged as in Figure 3C) and try to relate them to the decoding strategy learned by the CNN.

      Thank you for your helpful suggestion. We have calculated the grand-average LFP waveforms for each texture × lighting condition and included them in Figure 4A, with fore- and hind-limb channels shown separately and spatially arranged as in Figure 3C. Upon visual inspection, the mean waveforms did not reveal clear, distinct features. To further investigate, we computed the channel-wise correlation between different textures under both dark and light conditions. By subtracting the correlation coefficients for the dark environment from those in the light, we observed that the correlation between textures was lower in the dark environment (Figure 4B). This suggests that LFPs are more distinct between textures in the dark, supporting the CNN model's output. However, this also indicates that the CNN has captured more complex, nuanced information, as it is able to discriminate between LFPs on a single-trial basis, rather than relying on mean traces.

      To assess how the correlation between average LFP waveforms varied across channels, we also calculated the channel-channel correlation matrix for all 32 channels in each condition. While we found stronger correlations within each S1 subregion, we did not observe clear differences of correlation matrix between light and dark conditions, nor between different textures (Figure 4C).

      (ii) Add channel-wise and time-frequency maps (e.g., wavelet or spectrograms) for each texture × lighting condition and try to relate them to the decoding strategy learned by the CNN.

      Thank you for the valuable suggestion. We calculated wavelet features for each LFP segment and averaged them across trials to assess differences in LFP between light and dark conditions, as well as across textures (Figure 4D). However, no distinct differences were observed in the spectral map. To investigate further, we computed the differences in spectral maps for LFPs in light and dark trials. We then calculated the difference in attribution scores derived from the integrated gradient map (Supplementary Figure 4A). Subsequently, we calculated the correlation coefficients between the differences in integrated gradients and the differences in power across each frequency band in the spectral map (Supplementary Figures 4B and 4C). A negative correlation was found in the 50-60 Hz range, while a positive correlation was observed in the 80-90 Hz range. These findings suggest that frequency-specific patterns of LFP activity in different conditions may be linked to the texture representations captured by the CNN model. We have included a discussion of these findings in [lines 463-468].

      (b) Quantify the "enhanced separability in darkness" more rigorously.

      (i) Report cluster-distances (e.g. Euclidean) for each individual animal.

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful comment. When calculating the silhouette score, we used Euclidean distance as the distance metric. The silhouette score is defined for each data point as the difference between the average distance to points within its assigned cluster and the average distance to points in the nearest other cluster, normalized by the larger of the two values. Thus, the silhouette score inherently reflects the relative cluster distances both within and across conditions for each individual animal. Because we report and statistically analyze silhouette scores (Figure 6C), these values already quantify and compare the Euclidean cluster distances across conditions at the animal level. For clarity, we have now added a definition of the silhouette score in the Methods section of the main text [lines 269-278]. We also included the calculated silhouette scores in Supplementary Table 1.

      (ii) Run a permutation or bootstrap test (shuffling darkness/light labels within animals) to obtain an empirical null distribution for cluster separability in the network embedding space.

      We thank the reviewer for this important suggestion. In response, we implemented a permutation test to assess the robustness of our cluster separability results. Specifically, we shuffled the darkness/light labels within each animal and recalculated silhouette scores across 1000 resamples to generate an empirical null distribution. The observed separability between light and dark conditions consistently exceeded the 95th percentile of the null distribution (Supplementary Figure 3). This confirms that the enhanced cluster separability in darkness was not attributable to random fluctuations in labeling but instead reflected a systematic reorganization of neural representations.

      (c) Control for possible visually-evoked potentials (VEPs).

      (i) Search the LFPs recorded in light for stereotyped VEP components and/or comment on this possible confound (i.e., VEPs in S1?).

      Thank you for raising this point. Although it would be interesting to observe if a VEP is present in the S1 of rats, this experiment did not involve cue-guided visual stimulation. Additionally, there was no environmental visual cue that could serve as an external trigger to align the LFPs for VEP analysis in S1. Furthermore, since even the somatosensory evoked potential was not clearly visible in the S1 LFP without averaging the aligned LFPs, it is unlikely that we would be able to observe VEPs in single trials.

      (d) Address behavioral and arousal confounds.

      (i) Provide example locomotor-speed traces (aligned with corresponding LFPs) and report locomotor-speed variance across the 10-min blocks.

      Thank you for your comment. We had speedometer installed for the recording of the last two rats. We have now provided example speed traces and the speed variance across blocks in Supplementary Figure 1. The traces show that the locomotor-speed was stable in each trial.

      (ii) If available from the camera recordings, include pupil diameter as a proxy for arousal; otherwise, discuss explicitly how arousal changes might affect S1 LFPs.

      Thank you for this suggestion. We strongly agree that measuring pupil diameters should be incorporated into future studies. However, because our camera did not have sufficient resolution to capture pupil diameters, we have addressed this limitation in the discussion section [lines 525-537].

      (e) Address order effects (and motivation/satiety confounds)

      (i) Present at least a subset of sessions in which the dark block precedes the light block; re-analyze the silhouette score/discriminability with block order as a factor.

      Thank you for this helpful suggestion. We conducted additional analyses using sessions from 6 rats in which the dark block preceded the light block (Supplementary Figure 5A). Using the same model architecture, we calculated the silhouette score for each rat (Supplementary Figure 5B). However, when the order was reversed (dark preceding light), this discriminability effect disappeared. Thus, while we observed a trend toward higher scores in the dark condition, no statistically significant differences in texture discriminability were observed.

      If trial order alone accounted for the increase in discriminability, reversing the order would be expected to yield higher silhouette scores in the light condition. Our findings suggest that factors related to order (e.g., thirst or motivation, as you proposed) are not the sole contributors. Furthermore, previous studies in human participants have shown that brief blindfolding can produce lingering increases in tactile sensitivity, indicating a lasting effect of visual deprivation. Thus, the absence of significant differences in texture representation when the dark condition preceded the light condition may reflect such lasting effects. We have included a discussion in [lines 441-452].

      (ii) Discuss explicitly the potential confounding effect of motivational state/thirst.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s insightful comment. In the revised manuscript, we now explicitly address the potential confounding role of motivational state and thirst in shaping our results. Because animals were water-restricted to maintain task engagement, it is possible that increasing thirst or fluctuating motivation over the course of a session could alter arousal or attentional state, thereby influencing neural separability. However, when the trial order was reversed (dark condition preceding light), silhouette scores did not show a significant increase in the second (light) trial. Thus, while we acknowledge that motivational state may contribute to trial-to-trial variability, the systematic increase in separability during darkness cannot be fully explained by thirst or motivational confounds. This addition has been incorporated into the discussion section [lines 441-452].

      (f) Alignment control and the role of forelimb S1.

      (i) Repeat the decoding analysis with LFPs aligned to hind-limb strike; report whether the fore-limb dominance persists.

      Thank you for your thoughtful suggestion. We appreciate the opportunity to clarify. Our study was designed to ask a different question: how the absence of visual input reorganizes tactile encoding for the body part that actually initiates texture contact in our paradigm (the forepaw). Accordingly, all analyses were aligned to forelimb strike and our array intentionally oversampled S1-forelimb relative to S1-hindlimb (18 vs. 14 electrodes; Fig. 1F–G), yielding clear topographic forelimb-locked event-related responses (Fig. 3B–D) and forelimb-channel dominance in the decoding explainability analyses (Fig. 5D–E). Repeating the full decoding locked to hind-limb strike would test a different hypothesis and would be difficult to interpret for three reasons:

      Design/measurement alignment. Our kinematic detection was built to identify forelimb foot strikes. Extending the detector to hindlimb would require new model training/validation and introduces uncertainty in the exact contact timing relative to the LFP segments we analyze.

      Sampling asymmetry. The array and cortical magnification are not balanced across subregions (18 forelimb vs. 14 hindlimb electrodes; Fig. 1G), so a hind-limb–aligned comparison would be confounded by unequal coverage and signal-to-noise across S1 subdivisions rather than reflecting true “dominance.”

      Scope of the claim. We do not claim that the forelimb is globally more informative about texture; we show the intuitive and topographically specific result that “forelimb S1 codes textures touching the forelimb,” and that these representations become more separable in darkness (silhouette increase; Fig. 5C). A hind-limb–locked re-analysis would likely reveal hindlimb contributions when the hindpaw is the alignment event — but that would not change the central conclusion about darkness enhancing tactile representational separability.

      To address the underlying concern about generality without introducing the above confounds, we have clarified these design choices and limitations in the revised Methods [lines 194-197].

      (g) Amplitude-based baseline.

      (i) Show that a simple linear discriminant or logistic-regression model on peak amplitudes (and/or other simple features like trough width/slope) cannot reach the CNN's accuracy. This kind of "baseline" analysis could also be useful to pinpoint the discriminative features learned by the CNN.

      Thank you for your insightful suggestion. We agree that performing a baseline comparison with a simpler model could help highlight the advantage of using a CNN. However, in our dataset, individual LFP traces do not exhibit clear peaks or well-defined features such as peak amplitude, width, or energy, which makes feature extraction using traditional methods like linear discriminants or logistic regression challenging.

      To address this, we performed principal component analysis (PCA) on the raw LFP traces to reduce the dimensionality and applied a support vector machine (SVM) classifier on the reduced features, in line with the approach used for the CNN models (Supplementary Figure 2A). The results of this analysis, demonstrate that the SVM model struggles to effectively discriminate between conditions, further reinforcing the necessity of the CNN model. The CNN’s ability to automatically learn complex features from the raw LFP data appears to be a crucial factor in achieving superior classification performance (Supplementary Figure 2B).

      (h) Cross-validation and inter-animal generalization.

      (i) Consider replacing the single 80/20 split with k-fold cross-validation within animals.

      Thank you for this suggestion. Instead of using an 80/20 split, we performed 5-fold cross-validation on all rats. The silhouette scores were averaged within each animal across the five folds, and Figure 6C was updated accordingly. After performing a paired t-test, we still observed a significant difference in silhouette scores between the light and dark conditions.

      (ii) Comment on inter-animal generalization.

      Thank you for this valuable feedback. Although we did not explicitly test inter-animal generalization, it is unlikely that a model trained on data from one rat would perform equally well when classifying data recorded from another animal. This limitation arises from two main factors. First, despite careful efforts to implant electrodes in the same brain region and cortical layer across experiments, it is impossible to align all 32 electrodes to identical coordinates. Consequently, the recorded LFPs are obtained from slightly different locations, which may reflect distinct neural processing. Second, even within the same species, individual animals differ in brain size and neural circuit organization. Thus, even if electrodes could be placed at identical anatomical locations, inter-individual variability in brain structure would still lead to differences in the recorded signals. Because deep learning models are often sensitive to small perturbations in their input data, we believe that robust inter-animal generalization is unlikely without fine-tuning the model using data from the target animal. This comment has been inserted in the Discussion [lines 494-507].

      (2) Writing, figure and terminology improvements (minor):

      (a) Figure 5F-G axis label. Decide on either "attribution score" or "activation amplitude" and use that term consistently in panels, legend, and text (currently, I believe it could be confused with raw signal amplitude).

      We have unified the terminology to "attribution score" and applied this consistently across the panels, legend, and text.

      (b) Throughout the manuscript, use "population-level activity" or "average population dynamics" when discussing LFPs (I believe it is more correct to reserve "population code" for multiple single-unit datasets).

      We agree with the reviewer’s point and have adapted the term "population dynamics" to describe LFP information consistently throughout the manuscript.

      (c) Lines 219-221, state down-sampling to 2 kHz, whereas line 289 mentions 10 kHz. Reconcile these numbers.

      We apologize for the confusion and thank the reviewer for thoroughly reading the manuscript. Our original sampling rate was 30 kHz, and all analyses were performed on data resampled to 10 kHz. The reference to 2 kHz was an error, and we have corrected it.

      (d) Specify the tail of each statistical test mentioned in the manuscript and any multiple-comparison correction used.

      We have specified the tail of each statistical test and any multiple-comparison corrections used in the "Data Analysis" section of the Methods.

      (e) Line 244: "variables (He et al., 2015)" → "variables (He et al., 2015)".

      We have corrected this formatting issue and revised it to "variables (He et al., 2015)".

      (f) Line 253: "one-dimentional" → "one-dimensional".

      We have corrected the spelling error and revised it to "one-dimensional".

      (3) Data and code sharing:

      (a) Consider depositing data and code for the analysis in public open repositories.

      Thank you for your suggestion. We have set up a public GitHub repository to share the code. Since the full dataset is quite large (~400GB), we have uploaded a smaller example dataset for the analysis.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public review:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Weaknesses:

      Two minor comments

      (1) Fig 4 (hormone treatment): In this experiment, testosterone is given to males, yet in Sup Fig 6 it is argued that Esr1 is more influential in driving transcriptional changes compared to AR. Does DHT treatment have the same outcome as testosterone? Or, does estrogen treatment in males have the same outcome as testosterone?

      We agree that to distinguish AR and Esr1 activation by testosterone and converted estrogen respectively is a limitation in our study. We added discussion in the “limitation of the study” section.

      Although HM-HCR experiments showed the bidirectional control of transcriptional progression during adolescence, it is unclear if the facilitation in male by testosterone supplement is via activation of AR or Esr1 or both because testosterone will likely be converted to estrogen in the brain. Future studies using dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and estrogen to males may address this issue.

      (2) Fig 3i: There appears to be an age-dependent transcriptional change in male Vgat HR-low cells. Can the authors comment on age-dependent (hormone-independent) transcriptional changes in males versus females.

      We agree that it is important to clarify hormone dependent changes and age dependent changes. We added pair-wise DE results in Vgat HR low population in the main text. As consistent with trajectory analysis, the number of age-dependent genes were fewer than hormonally associated genes.

      “Pair-wise DEG analysis consistently showed that larger number of DEGs between P35 and P23 in Vgat+Esr1+ (male: 146 genes; female: 162 genes) than Vgat+ hormone R<sup>Low</sup> (male: 26 genes; female: 1 gene).”

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Weaknesses:

      (1) A major conceptual flaw is that the authors do not distinguish between genetically determined sex differences in patterns of gene expression and differences caused by the fact that MPOA neurons are exposed to different endocrine environments in adolescent males and females, which can cause different transcriptional trajectories independent of genetic sex. This issue does not render their results invalid, but their terminology should address the issue in the discussion and "limitations" section. At the very least the endocrine status of "intact females" should be included.

      We agree that this was ideal if perinatal and pubertal dynamics are analyzed within the same study to distinguish these two processes. We added discussion in the “limitation section”.

      “2. Although we have identified hormone/Esr1 dependent transcriptional trajectories during adolescence, the relations and interplay with genetically determined perinatal event, which is earlier and robust, are unclear. Some sex differences during adolescence might be an extension of perinatally established sex differences while others might be unique adolescent changes.”

      (2) A major technical flaw is that the MPOA is treated as a functionally distinct brain region (block dissections) with uniform distribution of cell types (FISH data are not illustrated or reported with sufficient spatial detail). Thus, an enormous amount of molecular data is provided that cannot be mapped to distinct neural circuits, thereby limiting the neurobiological impact. This is also a weakness of the FISH data, which is presented with only small regions illustrated without anatomical detail. In fact, some images are compared that appear to illustrate different MPOA structures, although it is impossible to be certain of this due to the lack of morphological landmarks. The analysis of how Esr1 orchestrates regulatory gene networks is impressive and interesting, but the fact that many of the observed transcriptional events occur in neural circuits that do not overlap confounds interpretation.

      We agree that while MPOA is defined based on brain atlas consistently across samples, the boundary is somewhat less obvious compared to other nuclei (e.g. hippocampus, VHM etc). To minimize the contaminations from adjacent areas, we have restricted quantitative analysis to mostly Vgat+ Esr1+ population which are densely located within the MPOA but not in immediately adjacent areas, except posterior BNST which is readily distinguishable. We added clarification in the method as well as added technical limitation in the discussion below.

      Method

      “To disambiguate the MPOA and adjacent brain regions, quantitative analysis is restricted to Vgat+ Esr1+ neurons and is devoid of posterior BNST.”

      Discussion

      “3. While we have observed robust effect of Esr1-KO in scRNAseq experiment which was further validated with FISH experiment, it is possible that there are further heterogeneous Vgat-Esr1 populations in the MPOA which might be differentially targeted in each virally injected sample. To mitigate this, 3-4 mice were pooled for each sample in scRNAseq experiment and in HCR-FISH experiment, in addition to confirming recombinase RNA expression within the MPOA, we included samples with robust Esr1 deletion in the MPOA. Interestingly, due to the technical challenge, Esr1 deletion tends to be more robust than weakly detected recombinase RNA expression (data not shown).”

      (3) The locations of the AAV injections should be characterized because deleting Esr1 in multiple distinct parts of the MPOA will likely confound interpretation. This is especially problematic given the limited number of mice used for parts of the RNAscope analysis.

      We agree that similar to #2, this is an important matter. For HCR experiment, we only included animal with recombinase RNA (Cre or Flp) expression within MPOA. Although the recombinase expression was sufficient enough to qualitatively determine the hit or miss, the detection was weak and it was challenging to determine the extent of viral spread. Thus, we also used successful Esr1 deletion as an additional inclusion criteria for AAV-Cre-YFP group. We have added inclusion criteria in the method and technical consideration in discussion.

      Method

      “For HCR2, AAV was injected unilaterally so that successful targeting of the MPOA with AAVCre-YFP (detection of recombinase RNA within the MPOA) and the deletion of Esr1 were confirmed for inclusion of samples.”

      Discussion

      “3. While we have observed robust effect of Esr1-KO in scRNAseq experiment which was further validated with FISH experiment, it is possible that there are further heterogeneous Vgat-Esr1 populations in the MPOA which might be differentially targeted in each virally injected sample. To mitigate this, 3-4 mice were pooled for each sample in scRNAseq experiment and in HCR-FISH experiment, in addition to confirming recombinase RNA expression within the MPOA, we included samples with robust Esr1 deletion in the MPOA. Interestingly, due to the technical challenge, Esr1 deletion tends to be more robust than weakly detected recombinase RNA expression (data not shown).”

      (4) Although the focus of these experiments on adolescence is welcome, neither the Introduction nor the Discussion do a good job of placing these studies in the context of what is already known about brain maturation during puberty. It is true that this is very much a results focused manuscript, but the scholarship can be improved. Simply stating that your results are consistent with previous reports places an undue burden on the reader to go figure out what is new.

      We agree that contextualizing our study in the scholarship will clarify the novelty and impacts that this study provides to the community. We have updated the introduction adding a review highlighting puberty associated genomic studies in the brain, which are all bulk (brain region level) as well as the very first puberty scRNAseq study in Human testis.

      “Despite the well-established role of these hormones in shaping behavior, the molecular mechanisms underlying their influence on brain development during adolescence are still limited to brain-region level (bulk)[8]in humans and model organisms and adolescent transcriptional dynamics at single cell resolution in the brain remain poorly understood (but see a pioneering study in the human testis[9]).”

      (5) Throughout the manuscript the authors utilize obscure abbreviations, which often makes reading their text overly cumbersome. This is certainly justified in certain instances where complex names of analytical methods are used repeatedly, but the authors are encouraged to try and simplify their use of non-standard abbreviations.

      We agree that this is helpful for readers to have the reference of abbreviations in handy at single location. We added an “abbreviation” section as a reference for readers.

      Medial preoptic area (MPOA)

      Single-cell RNA sequencing (scRNAseq)

      Estrogen receptor 1 (Esr1)

      GABAergic neurons (Vgat+)

      Glutamatergic neurons (Vglut2+)

      Hybridized chain reaction fluorescent in situ hybridization (HCR-FISH)

      Gonadectomized (GDX)

      Partition-based graph abstraction (PAGA)

      Hormone-associated differentially expressed genes (HA-DEGs)

      Multiplexed error-robust fluorescence in situ hybridization (MERFISH) differential gene expression (DE)

      Differentially expressed genes (DEGs)

      Support vector machine (SVM)

      Manifold Enhancement Latent Dimension (MELD)

      Potential of Heat-diffusion for Affinity-based Trajectory Embedding (PHATE)

      Androgen receptor (AR)

      single-cell regulatory network inference (SCENIC)

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      We appreciate reviewer for the constructive comments to improve our manuscript.

      Weaknesses:

      We already know that Esr1 is important within GABAergic but not glutamatergic neurons for mating behavior. However, there is not enough data to support the claim that disrupting Esr1 in glutamatergic MPOA neurons "had no observable effect." The MPOA is involved in many behaviors and physiologies that were not investigated. More assays would be required to report "no observable effect."

      The small number of cells included in the transcriptional studies is a general concern, as noted by the authors. This is a particular concern for conclusions related to the role of adolescence in glutamatergic MPOA neurons. The paper reports 24,627 neurons across all treatment groups, which include 3 time points, 2 sexes, and GDX conditions. It seems likely that not much was detected in the glutamatergic neurons because of insufficient power.

      Esr1 knockout is initiated in adolescence, not restricted to adolescence. Do we know that the effects on mating behavior are due to what is happening in adolescence vs. the function of Esr1 in adults? Are the effects different if Esr1 is knocked out in mature adults? This comparison would be important to demonstrate that adolescence is a critical time window for Esr1 function.

      We agree that 1. the relatively mild effects observed in Glutamatergic neurons may be partially due to the scale of the study, and 2. Esr1 deletion is permanent once induced and it is challenging to distinguish adolescent and adult transcriptional dynamics using existing viral strategies.

      We added discussion in the “limitation” section.

      “4. While we have observed robust transcriptional progression in Vgat<sup>+</sup> Esr1<sup>+</sup> neurons during adolescence, we observed more mild alternations in VgluT2<sup>+</sup> neurons. Although the scale of our study is comparable or exceeds prior scRNAseq studies in MPOA[22,29], future larger studies may have more sensitivity to detect adolescent transcriptional dynamics in VgluT2<sup>+</sup> neurons.”

      “5. Although we demonstrated adolescent transcriptional changes were observed as early as P35, and either hormonal deprivation or Esr1 KO in prior to adolescence prevented the transcriptional progression (arrested transcriptional state even at adult), given the viral incubation time and permanent deletion of Esr1 after viral injection, it is challenging to disambiguate the role of Esr1 during adolescence and adult. Future studies injecting the virus at adult may provide additional insights on the similarity and difference between transcriptional changes during puberty and maintained transcriptional states at adult.”

    1. Author Response:

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Overall, this is an interesting and well-written manuscript on a fascinating question in a"charismatic" model system.

      Strengths:

      (1) The Introduction is concise, though it might be helpful to the non-specialist reader to learn a bit more about what is known about the social control of somatic growth across diverse species (including humans), which would help to make this work more generally interesting.

      (2) The experiment is well-designed.

      (3) The data collected are comprehensive.

      (4) The complementary analysis of both feeding and aggression/submission data with and without known social roles is a neat idea and compelling!

      Thank you for the positive feedback!

      Here, we investigate phenotypic plasticity associated with the adoption of social roles in the clown anemonefish, with strategic growth being just one aspect of that plasticity. Strategic growth, also known as social control of growth, is a fascinating form of adaptive phenotypic plasticity, whereby individuals modify their growth and size in response to fine-scale changes in social conditions (Buston & Clutton-Brock, 2022). In cooperative breeding systems with high reproductive skew, particularly fishes and mammals (possibly including humans), individuals have been shown to i) increase growth/size on the acquisition of dominant status (Dengler-Crish & Catania, 2007; Johnston et al., 2021; Thorley et al., 2018; Van Schaik & Van Hooff, 1996; Walker & McCormick, 2009), ii) increase growth/size when paired with size matched reproductive rivals (Huchard et al., 2016; Reed et al., 2019; this study), and iii) decrease growth/size to avoid conflict (Buston, 2003; Heg et al., 2004; Wong et al., 2007). While strategic growth is fascinating and clearly occurring in this study, we show coordinated changes of multiple aspects of the phenotype as fish adopt social roles. Therefore, we deliberately framed the Introduction broadly to avoid biasing the reader toward viewing growth as the sole or main driver.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) I was surprised that the HPA/stress axis was not considered here at all. Wouldn't we expect that subordinates have increased stress axis activation, which in turn could inhibit their growth and aggressive behavior?

      We also expected to see the HPA/stress axis activated in subordinates, which is why we carried out a targeted exploration of genes known to play a role in this axis. We did not find any genes that were significantly differentially expressed. We believe that there could be two explanations for this. First, from a methodological perspective, it could be due to our use of a whole-body RNA-seq, which may have masked this signal. Alternatively, the stress axis might play a more complex role than just acting as a simple on/off switch for reduced growth. Its activation may peak when competition over size is at its highest (during week one) or, conversely, it may peak later and help maintain reduced growth once hierarchies are firmly established (particularly after the dominant individual reaches its maximum size). To understand the role of the stress axis, future studies should observe how its activation varies over time. We acknowledge that the absence of a stress‑axis signal and its potential explanations were not clearly discussed in the original manuscript, in the revised version, we will address this issue.

      (2) To what extent are growth, food intake, agonistic behavior, and/or gene expression patterns coordinated across P1 vs P2 pairs? The lack of such an analysis seems like a missed opportunity.

      We had a similar thought. Specifically, we were interested in testing the hypothesis that the final size ratio of pairs, which is indicative of the amount of conflict remaining, would predict gene expression. We examined gene expression within pairs to test for coordinated changes and repeated the analysis, accounting for the pair size ratio. In both cases, we found no clear or consistent pattern within pairs. We will consider including these figures in the Supplementary Materials document.

      (3) What was the rationale for using whole bodies for the transcriptome analysis? Given the hypotheses, the forebrain or hypothalamus and certain other organ systems (e.g.,liver, gonads, skin, etc.) would have been obvious candidate tissues here. I realize that cost is always a consideration, but maybe a focus on the fore-/midbrain could have been prioritized.

      We decided to use whole-body samples for this initial transcriptomic analysis to capture a broad view of gene-expression differences while keeping sequencing costs and sample requirements manageable. We agree with the reviewer that future work should explore specific tissues sampled from individuals at multiple time points to disentangle transcriptomic differences across tissue types.

      (4) Given the preceding point, why was a fold-change threshold used for assessing DEGs (supplementary Figure 3)? There is no biological justification to ever use a fold-change threshold, especially in bulk RNA-seq analysis. This is particularly true here, where wholebodies were used for RNA-seq analysis, which is a bit unusual. Relatively small cell populations (such as hypothalamic neurons that regulate growth or food intake) may show substantial gene expression variation across social types, yet will be masked by the masses of other cells in the whole body sample. However, gene expression may still vary significantly, albeit the fold-difference may be small. I therefore suggest a reanalysis that omits any fold-change threshold.

      We thank the reviewer for this important point, and agree that an arbitrary fold‑change cutoff is inappropriate/unnecessary. It should be noted that this fold-change cut-off was only used in this single figure, and all other analyses used p-values from the entire dataset. We will remove the fold‑change threshold cutoff and correct Supplementary Figure 3, and any corresponding text.

      (5) Why is the analysis of color (hue, saturation) buried in the supplementary materials?Based on the hypotheses that motivated the study, color seems just as relevant as food intake, growth, and agonistic behavior, so even if the results are negative, they should be presented in the main paper.

      We agree that color can be an important social signal, so we included color measurements in our experimental design. However, after careful consideration of the color results, we decided that our experimental timing and husbandry changes introduced multiple confounding factors, preventing us from drawing confident conclusions. Specifically, our fish were ≈1 month old at the transfer from larval to experimental tanks and had already begun to deepen their orange hue, before our experiment. (In the wild, they would settle at two weeks of age, prior to the deepening of the orange hue). Once individuals attain a certain hue, it seems that color development can be halted, but not reversed. The transfer also involved changes in lighting, tank background, and diet, factors known to strongly affect coloration. Our results show a uniform shift in orange hue and saturation across social groups, suggesting that these confounding factors might have dominated changes in hue.

      For transparency, we report the color data in the Supplementary Materials, but we caution against drawing any strong conclusions. In the revised manuscript, we will recommend that future work include a targeted experiment to robustly test for the effect of the adoption of social roles on coloration or the effect of coloration on the adoption of social roles.

      (6) The Discussion is sometimes difficult to follow. The authors may want to consider including a conceptual graphic that integrates the different aspects of growth and satiety regulation, etc., into a work-in-progress model of sorts, which would also facilitate clearer hypotheses for future research.

      Thank you for flagging that parts of the Discussion are a bit difficult to follow. In the revised manuscript, we will work to improve readability of the Discussion. We also appreciate the suggestion of including a conceptual schematic. We will consider whether adding such a graphic will add value to this manuscript or future manuscripts.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      In this manuscript, the authors test growth, behavior, and gene expression in pairs of clownfish as they establish social dominance hierarchies, examining patterns of gene expression in these pairs after dominance has been established. The authors show solid evidence that emerging dominant clownfish show increased growth, aggression, and food consumption compared to their submissive or solitary counterparts, eventually adopting distinct gene expression profiles.

      Major Comments:

      (1) The Introduction is comprehensive, but it could be condensed. Likewise, the discussion could be condensed. There is considerable redundancy between the methods, the results,and the legend in Figure 1. The authors should consolidate and remove the redundancy.

      Thank you for flagging that parts of the manuscript could be condensed, we will work on this as we revise the manuscript.

      (2) For Figure 3, the authors are showing PC2 and PC3; why is PC1 not shown? There is so much overlap between the three groups in PC2 vs PC3; it seems unlikely that researchers could conclusively identify any individual as belonging to a group based on the expression profile. The ovals shown do not capture all the points within each of the groups, and particularly the grey S oval seems misaligned with the datapoints shown.

      We understand the concern raised by the reviewer about the overlap among points in the PCA. We have explored PC1-PC3 and found that PC2 and PC3 showed the clearest, statistically significant clustering by social position, while PC1 did not capture any variation due to social position. We have explored whether other factors might be masking differences, such as genetic relatedness, tank effects, total read count per sample, and found that none of these factors explained sample clustering. Regarding the ellipses shown around the points, they were not intended to capture all points, but rather they show the estimated 95% multivariate t-distribution for that given social group. We will make sure this is clearly explained in the figure legend, and Methods section. In addition, in the revised version, we will show PC1 and PC2, and PC1 and PC3, in the Supplements for transparency.

      (3) The authors indicate that the 15 replicates exhibiting the greatest size difference between P1 and P2 were selected for gene profiling. Does this mean that each of the P1and P2 were pairs with each other? Have the authors tried examining the gene expression patterns in a paired manner? E.g., for the pairs that showed the greatest size differences,do they also show the greatest differences in gene expression? Do the P1s show the most extreme differences from P2s that also show the most extreme P2 differences? Perhaps lines on Figure 3A connecting datapoints from the P1 and P2 pairs would be informative.

      Yes, “15 replicates exhibiting the greatest size difference between P1 and P2 were selected for gene profiling” refers to pairs of P1 and P2, we will make sure this is clearly stated in the revised Methods. Yes, we have explored gene expression data considering the size difference between pairs, and found that it showed no clear differences in gene expression patterns (see earlier response to Reviewer #1). We will consider including these figures in the Supplementary Materials document, as well as adding a version of Figure 3A that clearly shows information on pairs, as suggested by the reviewer.

      (4) For the specific target pathways that are up- and downregulated in the different backgrounds, I recommend that the authors include boxplots (or heatmaps) showing the actual expression values for these targets. Figure 6 shows a heatmap for appetite-related genes, and it would be great to see a similar graph for the metabolism and glycolytic genes; it would also be informative to see similar graphs for hormonal and sexual maturation pathways as well.

      We have explored genes across a broad set of metabolic pathways (glycolysis, TCA cycle, lactic fermentation, PDH complex, cholesterol biosynthesis, fatty-acid synthesis, and beta-oxidation) and show all metabolic genes that showed significant differential expression between P1, P2, and S in Figure 6. Overall, very few metabolism-associated genes were significantly differentially expressed, which is why we decided to combine appetite-regulation and metabolism-associated genes into a single figure (Figure 6). In the revised version, we will ensure that Figure 6 clearly shows the gene sets associated with appetite and metabolism.

      We also examined hormonal pathways (glucocorticoid and thyroid signaling), but did not find genes in these pathways that were significantly differentially expressed. Finally, we would like to clarify that our samples consist of two-month-old juvenile individuals that are sexually immature —under ideal conditions, clown anemonefish can mature in one to two years, but they can also remain sexually immature for a decade or more (Buston & García, 2007) — which is why we did not observe distinct molecular signatures of sexual maturation. We recognize that the sentence at line 520 may be misleading, as we did not identify any gene expression signature that we could confidently associate with signs of sexual maturation. We will make sure that these are clearly stated in the revised version of the manuscript.

      (5) Particularly given that there is a relatively small number of genes enriched in the different rank conditions, I did not understand the need to do the WGCNA module analysis. I thought that an analysis of GO terms across the dataset would have been more meaningful than the GO term analysis shown in Figure 4, which considers only genes assigned to the "brown WGCNA module". This should be simplified or clarified.

      To clarify, GO enrichment analysis does not establish correlations with traits, it only describes which functions or pathways are over-represented in a given gene set. That is why we began by using WGCNA to define gene sets (modules) that are correlated to phenotypes. Our primary rationale for WGCNA was to identify modules of co-expressed genes that show significant statistical correlation with the phenotypes of interest (social role: P1, P2, S; growth; and food intake). Pairwise differential expression analysis (Figure 3B) identified a few hundred significantly differentially expressed genes, but those tests treat genes independently and are not able to help us link coordinated changes of co-expressed genes to phenotypes of interest. Because WGCNA is blind to traits, it first identifies groups of co-expressed genes, which can help resolve gene expression patterns.

      We therefore ran WGCNA on the rlog-transformed dataset to identify modules of co-expressed genes that show significant correlation with phenotypes of interests. For every module that showed such a correlation, we performed GO enrichment and carefully evaluated the resulting GO enrichment trees (see Supplementary Figs. 4–5). The brown module was highlighted in the main text because it was one of the modules with a significant correlation to growth, and its associated GO enrichment showed clear growth-related signals that were not identified in the pairwise differential expression analysis results.

      (6) The authors say that they have identified coordinated changes in behaviors and the"underlying gene expression, leading to the emergence" of social roles. This is a little bit misleading, since the gene expression analysis occurred well after the behavioral and phenotypic differences emerged. Presumably, the hormonal and genetic shifts that actually caused the behavioral and phenotypic difference occurred during the weeks during which the experiment was underway, and earlier capture of the transcriptome would presumably reveal different patterns, and ones that would be considered more causative.The authors acknowledge this in 434-435, but it could be emphasized further.

      We appreciate the reviewer raising this point. In the updated version of the manuscript, we will revise wording to convey that food intake, agonistic behavior, size and growth, and gene expression are all changing continuously, in response to each other and in response to social feedback. An underappreciated aspect of this system (and likely many other systems) is that phenotype (including transcriptome) influences the outcome of social interactions, and the outcome of social interactions influences the phenotype (including the transcriptome). Earlier capture of the transcriptome would reveal different levels of gene expression, reflecting the state of the system at that moment in time.

      (7) The authors have measured a number of differences between the different dominance classes of fish. All these differences were measured relative to the other classes, but in my view, the Solitary group was the closest to a baseline control. So I'm not sure that it is fair to say that "P2 and S individuals showed consistent downregulation of these genes and pathways" (line 401). I encourage the authors to emphasize the differences in gene expression from the "perspective" of the P1 individuals compared to the baseline of P2and S individuals. Line 474 says that "P2 fish showed significant upregulation" of a number of pathways. It should be very clear what that is compared to (compared to P1, presumably?)

      We agree with the reviewer that solitary individuals are the most intuitive baseline. Indeed, the experimental design included solitary fish because we expected they would serve as a useful control. Without social restraint, we anticipated they would show unrestricted growth, feeding, behavior, and associated gene‑expression patterns, similar to dominants.

      We initially ran analyses using solitaries as the baseline, but after examining the results, which showed subordinate‑like characteristics for the solitary individuals, we concluded that solitary individuals are not an ecologically appropriate control for this context. Removing juveniles from a social context and housing them in isolation may be stressful and can affect physiology and behavior in ways that do not reflect a natural baseline. From a life‑history standpoint, solitary living is not the typical state for A. percula.

      For these reasons, we reanalysed the dataset using the dominant (P1) as the reference to enable more ecologically meaningful comparisons (this choice was somewhat arbitrary, subordinates could also have been used as the reference). Given that gene expression is relative, we interpret results from both the dominant (P1) and subordinate (P2) perspectives in the Discussion to provide a complete view. We will clarify wording throughout the manuscript to make it clear that everything is relative (e.g., revising Line 474).

      (8) Along the same lines, the authors say in line 514 that subordinates and solitaries strategically downregulate their growth. I'm not convinced that this is the case: I would consider this growth trajectory to be the default and the baseline. I would interpret that under certain social conditions, a P1 dominant pattern of growth, behavior, and gene expression is allowed to emerge.

      We respectfully disagree with the idea that a single baseline/reference growth trajectory exists for any individual of this species. Growth of individuals is entirely social context-dependent: neither fast nor slow growth represents an inherent baseline. When two size‑matched juveniles meet and compete to establish dominance, accelerated growth is the expected trajectory. By contrast, juveniles joining an existing hierarchy are expected to exhibit reduced growth, which minimizes conflict and facilitates their social integration. Unlike species that show non socially mediated growth trajectories, clown anemonefish do not have a context‑independent growth rate, rather, individuals constantly readjust their growth according to their immediate social environment.

      Therefore, growth trajectories must be considered from the perspective of all group members, because they emerge from interactions among individuals rather than reflecting an intrinsic baseline. In this study, we were interested in the establishment of dominance hierarchy and how individuals adjust their phenotypes during this process. By experimentally pairing size‑matched rivals, both individuals are initially expected to pursue the dominant trajectory, and thus neither individual represents a default state. Instead, the outcome reflects a social decision, after which both individuals reinforce their emerging social roles through coordinated changes.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors tested the hypothesis that interactions among size- and age-matched rivals will lead to the emergence of social roles, accompanied by divergence in four aspects of individual phenotypes: growth, feeding behavior, fighting behaviors, and gene expression in clownfish.

      Strengths:

      The data on growth, feeding rate, and fighting behaviors support the authors' claims.

      Thank you for the positive feedback!

      Weaknesses:

      Gene analysis conducted in this study is not sufficient to clarify how the relevant genes actually regulate growth and behavior.

      The information obtained from whole-body gene expression analysis is very limited.Various gene expression is associated with the regulation of fighting behaviors, food intake, growth, and metabolism, and these genes are regulated differently across tissues,even within a single individual. Gene expression analysis should be performed separately for each tissue.

      We understand the reviewer’s concern about whole‑body transcriptomes and agree that tissue‑specific sampling would provide greater resolution of the mechanisms linking gene expression to growth, agonistic behaviors, and food intake. For this initial study, however, we deliberately chose whole‑body samples to capture a broad, unbiased view of gene expression differences while keeping sequencing costs and sample requirements manageable. We explicitly acknowledge the resulting interpretational limits in the Discussion (lines 464; 529–533), and suggest in the last paragraph that the patterns reported here should be used to build on in future studies exploring targeted, tissue‑specific hypotheses.

      Clownfish undergo sex change depending on social status and body size, as the authors mention in the manuscript. Numerous gene expressions are affected by sex change. It is unclear how this issue was addressed.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this point. Sex change and sexual maturation can indeed drive major transcriptional shifts in clown anemonefish, but our experiment did not encompass such a life‑history transition. All individuals in this experiment were juveniles (≈1 month old at the start, ≈2 months old at the end) and were sexually immature at these ages. Clown anemonefish reach sexual maturation around one to two years under ideal conditions, can delay sexual maturation for years under normal conditions (Buston & García, 2007), and sex change in the genus Amphiprion is known to take over ~5 months (Moyer & Nakazono, 1978). Accordingly, individuals in this study were not sexually mature, and sex change was not biologically plausible over the five-week experimental period of our study. We recognize that the sentence at line 520 may be misleading, as we did not identify any gene expression signature that we could confidently associate with signs of sexual maturation. We will make sure that it is clearly stated that the fish in this study were sexually immature in the revised version.

      References:

      Buston, P. (2003). Forcible eviction and prevention of recruitment in the clown anemonefish. Behavioral Ecology, 14(4), 576–582. https://doi.org/10.1093/beheco/arg036

      Buston, P. M., & García, M. B. (2007). An extraordinary life span estimate for the clown anemonefish Amphiprion percula. Journal of Fish Biology, 70(6), 1710–1719. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1095-8649.2007.01445.x

      Buston, P., & Clutton-Brock, Tim. (2022). Strategic growth in social vertebrates (WITH REVIEWER COMMENTS). Trends in Ecology & Evolution, 37(8), 694–705. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.tree.2022.03.010

      Dengler-Crish, C. M., & Catania, K. C. (2007). Phenotypic plasticity in female naked mole-rats after removal from reproductive suppression. THE JOURNAL OF EXPERIMENTAL BIOLOGY.

      Heg, D, Bender, N, & Hamilton, I. (2004). Strategic growth decisions in helper cichlids. Proceedings of the Royal Society of London. Series B: Biological Sciences, 271(suppl_6). https://doi.org/10.1098/rsbl.2004.0232

      Huchard, E, English, S, Bell, M B. V., Thavarajah, N, & Clutton-Brock, T. (2016). Competitive growth in a cooperative mammal. Nature, 533(7604), 532–534. https://doi.org/10.1038/nature17986

      Johnston, R A., Vullioud, P, Thorley, J, Kirveslahti, H., Shen, L., Mukherjee, S., Karner, C. M., Clutton-Brock, T, & Tung, J (2021). Morphological and genomic shifts in mole-rat ‘queens’ increase fecundity but reduce skeletal integrity. eLife, 10, e65760. https://doi.org/10.7554/eLife.65760

      Moyer, J. T., & Nakazono, A. (1978). Protandrous Hermaphroditism in Six Species of the Anemonefish Genus Amphiprion in Japan (No. 2). The Ichthyological Society of Japan. https://doi.org/10.11369/jji1950.25.101

      Reed, C., Branconi, R., Majoris, J., Johnson, C., & Buston, P. (2019). Competitive growth in a social fish. Biology Letters, 15(2), 20180737. https://doi.org/10.1098/rsbl.2018.0737

      Thorley, J, Katlein, N, Goddard, K, Zöttl, M, & Clutton-Brock, T. (2018). Reproduction triggers adaptive increases in body size in female mole-rats. Proceedings of the Royal Society B: Biological Sciences, 285(1880), 20180897. https://doi.org/10.1098/rspb.2018.0897

      Van Schaik, C P., & Van Hooff, J A. R. A. M. (1996). Toward an understanding of the orangutan’s social system. In Linda F. Marchant, Toshisada Nishida, & William C. McGrew (Eds.), Great Ape Societies (pp. 3–15). Cambridge University Press. https://doi.org/10.1017/CBO9780511752414.003

      Walker, S P. W., & McCormick, M I. (2009). Sexual selection explains sex-specific growth plasticity and positive allometry for sexual size dimorphism in a reef fish. Proceedings of the Royal Society B: Biological Sciences, 276(1671), 3335–3343. https://doi.org/10.1098/rspb.2009.0767

      Wong, M. Y. L., Buston, P. M., Munday, Philip L., & Jones, Geoffrey P. (2007). The threat of punishment enforces peaceful cooperation and stabilizes queues in a coral-reef fish. Proceedings of the Royal Society B: Biological Sciences, 274(1613), 1093–1099. https://doi.org/10.1098/rspb.2006.0284

    1. Author Response:

      eLife Assessment

      In this important study, Bready et al. investigate how a highly conserved long-range enhancer mediates neural-specific SOX2 regulation during neural differentiation using human neural stem cells. This study has broad appeal to developmental neuroscience; however, the data remain incomplete given the need for homozygous enhancer knockouts and biological replicates in the scRNAseq assays.

      We thank the expert reviewers and eLife editors Drs. Eade and White for complementing our work and deeming it an “important study” of “broad appeal to developmental neuroscience”. We also acknowledge some of the limitations of our work, including the lack of homozygous deletion of the enhancer element. As we detail below, we tried tirelessly to identify human embryonic stem cell (hESC) clones with homozygous deletions but were unable to. As we speculate in the discussion, this failure may represent a biological property of the enhancer element (possibly an essentiality manifested even in hESCs), or a technical limitation related to the large size (2.7 kb) of the genomic element targeted for deletion. We also clarify that every scRNAseq assay included cells from multiple teratomas.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this study, the authors examine how a developmentally regulated cis-regulatory element controls SOX2 expression during neural differentiation of human stem cells. The results suggest that this highly conserved long-range enhancer mediates neural-specific SOX2 regulation and offer insight into the role of promoter-enhancer contacts in this process. Although the findings are interesting, several limitations need to be addressed.

      Strengths:

      A central question in developmental biology is how genes are regulated in a context-dependent manner. SOX2, a major pluripotency factor, is expressed in diverse tissues during development, and therefore understanding the mechanisms that control its spatiotemporal expression is critical. This study addresses this important question by examining the functional relevance of a neural-specific, developmentally regulated SOX2 enhancer and its associated promoter-enhancer contacts in driving gene expression during human neural development. Using multiple model systems and techniques, the authors test the requirement of this enhancer by analyzing SOX2 expression in mutant lines, providing evidence for its role in this process.

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting the significance of our work in the field of developmental biology.

      Weaknesses:

      A key limitation of the study is the absence of data from homozygous SOX2 enhancer deletion, which leaves the analysis incomplete and tempers the conclusions that can be drawn. Furthermore, the suitability of teratomas as a model system is questionable, given their limited capacity to recapitulate the spatial patterning, regional specification, and organized developmental processes characteristic of the human forebrain. Finally, the manuscript remains largely descriptive with little mechanistic insight.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s disappointment with lack of data from a homozygous SOX2 enhancer deletion. We too felt disappointed when we started genotyping our hESC clones. In fact, we spent a year screening multiple hESC clones for a homozygous deletion but were unable to find one. We performed several assays to better characterize the heterozygous clones, including Sanger sequencing, whole-genome sequencing (WGS) and fluorescent in situ hybridization (FISH). All assays pointed in the direction of hemizygous deletion. We do not understand the reasons for the absence of homozygous deletion clones. One possibility is that homozygous deletion of the enhancer is selected against in hESCs, thus preventing growth of colonies. Another possibility is the technical challenge of achieving a large deletion (2.7 kb) in hESCs. We also entertained the possibility of the excised enhancer being excised from the genome but retained as extrachromosomal (ec) DNA, thus producing the hemizygous genotype. However, several assays, such as FISH and PCR diagnostics, argued against this possibility.

      The teratoma assay was chosen as an in vivo metric of spontaneous differentiation of hESCs into the three germ layers, because our overarching hypothesis was that perturbing the enhancer element and 3D chromatin loop regulating SOX2 transcription would impair specification of neuroectodermal precursors. We believe that teratomas offer an opportunity to allow pluripotent cells to declare any predilections toward germ layers in unbiased fashion. Importantly, we did not rely solely on teratomas to assess effects of our genomic perturbations on specification of neuroectoderm, but also pursued cerebral organoids as an orthogonal approach focused on the tissue of interest, the central nervous system.

      Our work does not only describe an important mechanism for regulation of SOX2 transcription in the transition from pluripotency to neuroectodermal specification, but also provides mechanistic insight into the question of whether the developmentally co-regulated activation of the enhancer and formation of the 3D chromatin loop are dependent on each other. Our findings indicate that the two processes occur independently of each other, as evidenced by the fact that the enhancer is uncoupled from chromatin folding, as occurs when the adjacent CTCF motif is deleted. This finding raises the possibility that enhancer activation occurs through yet to be determined transcriptional events, and that establishment of the local 3D chromatin architecture helps fine-tune its influences in the Topologically Associating Domain (TAD) of interest.

      We are further pursuing mechanisms that regulate activation of the enhancer within neuroectodermal lineages and may explain its actions on genomic elements other than the SOX2 locus within the relevant TAD. We are also investigating reasons explaining why hemizygous enhancer deletion produces stronger phenotypes than deletion of the CTCF motif that helps stabilize the 3D chromatin loop.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors use a combination of genomics, genome conformation assays, and CRISPR-mediated deletion to study the transcriptional regulation of the SOX2 gene in human neural stem cells (hNSCs).

      Strengths:

      The authors show that two distal elements, located ~550kb downstream of the SOX2 gene, are important for SOX2 transcription in hNSC. They investigate both the deletion of these elements in established hNSCs and in hNSCs generated by differentiation of human pluripotent stem cells, suggesting these elements are important in both the establishment and maintenance of SOX2 expression in hNSCs.

      We thank the reviewer for appreciating the importance of this regulatory mechanism in the establishment and maintenance of SOX2 expression in the human neural lineage.

      Weaknesses:

      Homologous elements have been studied in the mouse genome and have conserved function in mouse NSCs, yet these findings are not mentioned. Inclusion of biological replicates for the scRNA-seq and replicate CRISPR-deleted clones would strengthen the study.

      We appreciate the recommendation of the reviewer to better acknowledge prior work in mouse neural development. We will ensure full acknowledgment of these studies in the revised manuscript.

      We also appreciate the suggestion for biological replicates in our scRNA-seq assays. We clarify that each scRNA-seq arose from combining multiple teratomas from each experimental group, thus ensuring that findings reflect reproducible biology rather than isolated findings from single teratomas. This clarification will be emphasized in the revised manuscript.

      Finally, we absolutely agree with the reviewer that more CRISPR-deleted clones would have strengthened the study. Unfortunately, we realized that characterization of each clone takes multiple years and addition of more clones would have made the study too lengthy.

    1. Author response:

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this work, the authors investigate the mechanisms of low-frequency synaptic depression at cerebellar parallel fiber to interneuron synapses using unitary recordings that allow direct quantification of synaptic vesicle release. They show that sparse stimulation can induce robust synaptic depression even in the absence of substantial vesicle consumption, and that this depressed state is rapidly reversed when stimulation frequency is increased. To account for these observations, the authors propose a model in which low-frequency depression reflects a redistribution of vesicles within the readily releasable pool, in particular, a reduction in docking site occupancy due to vesicle undocking.

      Strengths:

      I found the experimental work to be of high quality throughout. The use of simple synapse recordings to count individual vesicle release events is particularly powerful in this context and allows questions to be addressed that are difficult to approach with more conventional approaches. The demonstration that low-frequency depression can occur independently of prior vesicle release, together with the rapid recovery observed during high-frequency stimulation, places strong constraints on possible underlying mechanisms and represents a clear strength of the study.

      The modelling framework is clearly laid out and helps organize a broad set of observations across stimulation frequencies. Several of the experimental tests appear well-motivated by the model, including the recovery train experiments, the analysis of failures, and the use of doublet stimulation. Taken together, the data provide a coherent phenomenological description of low-frequency depression and its relationship to vesicle availability within the readily releasable pool.

      We thank the Reviewer for his positive assessment of our work.

      Weaknesses:

      While the experimental results are strong, the manuscript would benefit from rebalancing the strength of the mechanistic conclusions drawn from the modelling in light of its limitations. The framework is clearly useful and provides a coherent interpretation of the data, but it is not uniquely constrained by the experimental observations, and alternative models or interpretations could plausibly account for the findings. The use of different model regimes concatenated across time, with substantially different parameter values, highlights the abstract nature of the approach. For these reasons, the model seems best presented as one plausible explanatory framework rather than a definitive biological mechanism. Clarifying the distinction between data-driven observations and model-based inferences would help readers assess which conclusions are strongly supported and which remain more speculative.

      The interpretation of the Ca<sup>2+</sup>-related experiments would benefit from more cautious wording. The absence of detectable changes in presynaptic Ca<sup>2+</sup> signals does not exclude more localized or subtle Ca<sup>2+</sup>-dependent mechanisms, and conclusions regarding Ca<sup>2+</sup> independence should therefore be framed accordingly. In addition, while low-frequency depression is still observed at reduced extracellular Ca<sup>2+</sup>, these experiments appear less diagnostic of the specific model-derived mechanism emphasized elsewhere in the manuscript - namely, a selective reduction in docking-site occupancy - and should be discussed with appropriate qualification in the text.

      Concerning Ca<sup>2+</sup> signals, the Reviewer is right. While we found no change in Ca<sup>2+</sup> signalling apart from a slow Ca<sup>2+</sup> accumulation during long trains at 1 Hz, the possibility of an undetected change cannot be excluded. We have added a word of caution in this direction on p. 11. Concerning the 1.5 mM Ca<sup>2+</sup> experiments, the Reviewer presumably alludes to the first recovery train (yellow) point in Supplementary Fig. 2C. This is also the last point (s11) of the slow train at 0.5 Hz because no delay at all was interposed between the slow train and the recovery train. We have now included one more experiment (with a present total number n = 6), and we have corrected Fig. S2C accordingly. In the new version the depression measured for s4-s10 vs s1 during the 0.5 Hz trains is 0.69 +/- 0.05 (p = 0.00058, paired one-tail t-test). The ratio of the s1 value of the recovery train compared to control s1 is 0.83 +/- 0.08 (p = 0.028, paired one-tail t-test).

      Major points:

      (1) Clarify and qualify mechanistic claims derived from the model.

      Throughout the manuscript, changes in model parameters are at times described as if they directly reflected underlying physiological mechanisms. As a result, the conceptual distinction between experimentally observed phenomena, model-derived variables, and biological interpretation is not always clear. Several conclusions in the Results and Discussion are phrased as mechanistic statements, although they rest on assumptions intrinsic to the modelling framework. The authors should systematically review the text and explicitly distinguish between (i) experimentally observed changes in synaptic responses and (ii) inferences about vesicle docking states or transitions within the model.

      In particular, statements implying that vesicle undocking is the mechanism underlying low-frequency depression should be rephrased to reflect that this is an interpretation within the proposed framework rather than a uniquely demonstrated biological process. For example, statements such as "Low-frequency depression is caused by synaptic vesicle undocking" should be replaced with formulations such as "Within the framework of our model, low-frequency depression is accounted for by a redistribution of synaptic vesicles away from docking sites" or "Our results are consistent with a model in which changes in vesicle docking-state occupancy contribute to low-frequency depression."

      A particularly problematic example is the statement that "these experiments further confirm that LFD only involves a decrease in δ, without accompanying changes in ρ or IP size." Here, an experimentally defined phenomenon (LFD) is directly equated with changes in model-derived variables. Such statements should be revised to make clear that δ, ρ, and IP size are inferred quantities within the model, and that the experimental data are interpreted through this framework rather than directly confirming changes in these parameters. Similarly, overgeneralizing statements such as "Undocking therefore represents the key mechanism controlling short-term depression across stimulation frequencies" should be softened to reflect that this conclusion emerges from the model rather than from direct experimental evidence.

      As suggested, we clarify the distinction in the revised version between experimental data and modelling, and we refrain from making definitive statements on underlying cellular mechanisms.

      (2) Address the biological interpretation of time-dependent model regimes.

      The model relies on distinct parameter regimes applied at different time points, with some transitions effectively suppressed in certain regimes. While this approach captures the data well, its biological interpretation remains unclear. The authors should either (i) expand the discussion to outline plausible biological processes that could give rise to such regime changes (for example, calcium-dependent modulation of transition rates or activity-dependent changes in vesicle state stability), or (ii) more explicitly frame this aspect of the model as a descriptive abstraction rather than a mechanistic proposal. This further underscores the need to clearly separate the descriptive role of the model from claims about underlying biological mechanisms.

      We thank the Reviewer for drawing our attention to this important point. Below 10 ms, rate constants are largely determined by the large amplitude, fast decaying Ca<sup>2+</sup> signal occurring near voltage-dependent Ca<sup>2+</sup> channels (‘Ca<sup>2+</sup> nanodomain’). After 10 ms, the rate constants depend on the low amplitude, slowly decaying Ca<sup>2+</sup> signals averaged over the entire varicosity (‘volume-averaged Ca<sup>2+</sup>’). We explain this better in the revised version (Materials and Methods, p. 21).

      (3) Reframe conclusions drawn from calcium-related experiments.

      The calcium imaging data demonstrate no detectable changes in the measured presynaptic calcium signals under the tested conditions, but they do not rule out that calcium signals contribute in ways undetectable by the assay. Conclusions should therefore be revised to reflect this limitation, avoiding statements that exclude a role for calcium-dependent mechanisms. Wording such as "we did not detect evidence for..." would be more appropriate than conclusions implying the absence of an effect.

      Similarly, while low-frequency depression is still observed at reduced extracellular calcium (1.5 mM Ca<sup>2+</sup>), the specific mechanistic signature emphasized elsewhere in the manuscript - namely a selectively reduced first response during a high-frequency recovery train - is no longer apparent. These experiments should therefore be discussed as consistent with the proposed framework, but not as providing independent support for a selective reduction in docking-site occupancy. Explicitly acknowledging this limitation would improve clarity and avoid overinterpreting these data.

      This has been discussed above (‘weaknesses’).

      (4) Soften interpretations based on non-significant comparisons.

      In several places, comparisons that do not reach statistical significance are used to argue for equivalence between conditions (for example, comparisons involving failure versus non-failure trials or different LFD conditions). These conclusions should be revised to emphasize the limits of statistical power and framed as a lack of evidence for a difference rather than evidence of independence.

      We have attended this point in the revised version.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Silva and co-workers exploit their previously established methods of analyzing release events at single parallel fiber to molecular layer interneuron synapses. They observed synaptic depression at low transmission frequencies (< 5 Hz), which rapidly recovers during high-frequency transmission. Analysis of the time course of low-frequency depression revealed an initial rapid and a slow linearly increasing time course. Strikingly, the initial depression occurred even in the absence of preceding release, arguing against vesicle depletion as the underlying mechanism.

      Strengths:

      The main strength of the study is the careful demonstration of an interesting synaptic phenomenon challenging the classical vesicle-centered interpretation of synaptic depression.

      We thank the Reviewer for his positive assessment of our work.

      Weaknesses:

      No major weaknesses were identified by this reviewer.

      The finding of release-independent synaptic depression is important and would have widespread implications. Therefore, some more analyses to increase the confidence in these findings could be performed.

      My concern is whether rundown could explain the findings. If the rate of failures in s1 increases and at the same time the amplitude decreases during the experiments, an apparent depression in s2 could arise. The Supplementary Figure 5A addresses run-down, but the figure is not easy to understand, and, as far as I understood, it does not address the question of whether the release-independent depression could be caused by a rundown. To address this, the analysis of Figure 5 could be repeated by investigating the failure rate and amplitude separately or by analyzing the 1st and 2nd half of the recordings separately.

      The Reviewer makes a very important point that had escaped our attention. If the responses were declining over the course of an experiment, near the end of the recordings, a high proportion of failures would be associated with a weak response to the second AP. This could distort the relation between initial failures and amount of LFD, perhaps to the point of indicating LFD after failures when there were none. As suggested by the Reviewer, we tested this possibility by examining the stability of the synaptic responses during experiments. We found a mean s<sub>1</sub> value of 0.87 ± 0.13 for the first half of the experiments used in Fig. 5, and of 1.10 ± 0.17 for the second half (p > 0.05, n = 10). This analysis shows that there was no rundown during these experiments. We show in Author response image 1 a plot of s1 as a function of the number of experiments. These plots do not suggest any artefactual correlation between failures, mean s1, and rundown.

      Author response image 1.

      Plot of s1 as a function of train number for the experiments of Fig. 5. In response to a request of Reviewer 2, this figure illustrates the evolution of s1 values as a function of train number for the experiments used to produce Figure 5. In each experiment, about 20 s1 values were obtained at two ISIs (either 10 ms and 500 ms, or 800 ms and 1600 ms). The figure shows two examples of s1 values as a function of train number (these values fluctuate widely between 0 and 3), and the average across cells and ISI values. There is no indication of a rundown of S1 values as a function of train number

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript builds on the observation that, at some synapses, low-frequency stimulation causes synaptic depression, which can be reversed by subsequent high-frequency stimulation. Such low-frequency depression (LFD) cannot be easily explained by the depletion of a single vesicle pool. Here, Silva and colleagues propose a model of activity-dependent vesicle trafficking to explain LFD at synapses between cerebellar granule cells and molecular layer interneurons.

      Strengths:

      Overall, LFD is interesting and worthy of examination, and the authors provide new experimental results that are of the high quality expected from this group.

      Weaknesses:

      The study proposes a novel model of vesicle trafficking that is not explained by known biological mechanisms, and the manuscript does not adequately compare or discuss alternative models.

      I have several concerns about how the authors interpret the data. First, the manuscript's primary conceptual advance is the idea that LFD involves vesicle undocking, rather than depletion. However, most experiments were performed under conditions that promote vesicle depletion (3 mM extracellular Ca<sup>2+</sup>). When experiments were repeated in physiological Ca<sup>2+</sup>, there appeared to be little or no LFD (stats are not provided). Second, the RS/DS/DU/undocking model, though not outside the realm of possibility, is not readily explained by known mechanisms and is only loosely supported by experimental findings. Third, when simulating LFD, the authors do not compare alternative models and use inappropriate language to imply that a model fit represents the truth (e.g., "the finding of identical experimental and simulated values confirms that the undocking mechanism accounts for LFD"). Finally, the model is presented in an overly complicated manner. The sheer amount of terms and nomenclature makes the manuscript confusing and difficult to read. Overall, the manuscript would benefit from added experiments and more statistics, a better justification and evaluation of the model, and more nuanced language.

      We respectfully disagree with these sweeping criticisms, as described in more detail below.

      Major concerns:

      (1) Most experiments were performed under conditions that exacerbate depletion

      In order to attribute LFD to vesicle undocking rather than depletion, it is important to show LFD under conditions where depletion is minimal. As mentioned above, the authors only report significant LFD in elevated extracellular Ca<sup>2+</sup>. In a small number of experiments performed in more physiological Ca<sup>2+</sup> (1.5 mM), there is no depression after a single stimulus, and it is not clear that there was statistically significant depression during a low-frequency train. Several studies cited in support of LFD share this problem:

      - Abrahamsson et al., (2007) recorded from Schaffer collaterals in 4 mM Ca, 3-4X physiological Ca<sup>2+</sup>.

      - Doussau et al., (2010) recorded from Aplysia synapses in 3X Ca compared to seawater.

      - Rudolph et al., (2011) is cited as an example of LFD. However, this study performed experiments at high release probability cerebellar climbing fibers, and reported depression that increased monotonically with stimulation frequency, so it does not resemble the phenomenon studied in this paper. Lin et al., (2022) also largely describe monotonic depression at the calyx.

      The Reviewer suggests that LFD may only occur under non-physiological conditions, if the release probability has been increased by artificially elevating the extracellular Ca<sup>2+</sup>. The implication is that LFD is at best a curiosity with little or no significance for brain signalling. We disagree with this point of view for several reasons.

      Concerning the statement ‘In order to attribute LFD to vesicle undocking rather than depletion, it is important to show LFD under conditions where depletion is minimal’: This is the purpose of the analysis shown in Fig. 5.

      The statement ‘the authors only report significant LFD in elevated extracellular Ca<sup>2+</sup>’ is inaccurate. Fig. S2C shows a clear LFD in 1.5 mM Ca<sup>2+</sup>, as acknowledged by Reviewer 1 (‘low-frequency depression is still observed at reduced extracellular Ca<sup>2+</sup>’). However, we failed to provide a p-value for the depression in the initial version of the paper (p = 0.004, n = 5, with this data set; paired t-test, one-tailed). In the revised version, we document the 1.5 mM results more extensively, including the incorporation of the results of an additional experiment, and an explicit statistical analysis of the data (p = 0.00058, n = 6; paired t-test, one-tailed).

      Concerning the statement ‘there is no depression after a single stimulus’: We find that the onset kinetics of LFD is slower in 1.5 Ca<sup>2+</sup> than in 3 Ca<sup>2+</sup> (respectively 1.8 ISI and 0.51 ISI, Fig. 2C and Fig. S2C). This explains that the PPR is not significantly <1 in 1.5 Ca<sup>2+</sup> without implying any weakening of extent of LFD at steady state.

      As explained in the manuscript (p. 5), in a previous work, we developed a method to ascribe changes in SV pools, within the RS/DS model, with specific modifications of s1, s2 and s5-s8 during test 100 Hz trains (Tran et al., 2022). This method was developed in 3 mM Ca<sup>2+</sup> conditions, and for this reason, we performed most experiments for the present work in 3 mM Ca<sup>2+</sup>.

      Chiu and Carter (2024) demonstrated LFD in neocortical synapses; they performed their study in 1.2 mM Ca<sup>2+</sup>, not in elevated Ca<sup>2+</sup>.

      Rudolph et al. (2011) showed low frequency depression not only in elevated external Ca<sup>2+</sup>, but also in 0.5 mM Ca<sup>2+</sup>. While Rudolph et al. (2011) did not make an explicit link between their observations and LFD, there is no reason to doubt that these observations are an example of LFD. They showed a biphasic depression when switching the stimulation frequency from 0.05 Hz to 2 Hz. In one of the founding papers of LFD, Doussau et al. (2010) describe a biphasic depression when switching the stimulation frequency from 0.025 Hz to 1 Hz; the Fig. 1 of the two papers (Rudolph 2011 and Doussau 2010) are strikingly similar.

      Lin et al. (2022) would probably not agree with the statement that the depression at the calyx is ‘largely monotonic’, as they stress the finding of quasi-constant depression between 5 and 50 Hz.

      The authors note that their results differ from those of Atluri and Regehr, but do not mention that a possible reason for the difference is the increased release probability in their experiments.

      In fact, we clearly listed the difference in external Ca<sup>2+</sup> as a likely source of the discrepancy by saying ‘This discrepancy presumably stems from differences in experimental conditions (room temperature, stimulation of multiple presynaptic PFs and 2 mM external Ca<sup>2+</sup> concentration in the previous work, vs. near-physiological temperature, single presynaptic stimulation and 3 mM external Ca<sup>2+</sup> here)’.

      The authors should provide statistics for the data obtained in 1.5 mM Ca, and discuss why LFD is increased in conditions that also elevate vesicle release probability.

      See our comments above: the revised version includes the requested statistics. On p. 6 of the manuscript, we do provide an explanation for the apparent lack of LFD at 1.5 Ca<sup>2+</sup> and 2 Hz, namely a superimposition of LFD with facilitation. At 1.5 Ca<sup>2+</sup> and 0.5 Hz, our LFD numbers are not weaker than at 3 mM Ca<sup>2+</sup> and 0.5 Hz of 1 Hz.

      Altogether, it is correct that many LFD experiments have been carried out in high release probability synapses, and/or under conditions of elevated Ca<sup>2+</sup>. However, the reasons underlying these choices are diverse (in our case, to build on the previous SV pool analysis developed in Tran et al. 2022 in 3 Ca<sup>2+</sup> conditions) and do not imply a limitation to the phenomenon. LFD is present in physiological conditions for low-to-moderate release probability synapses (as shown in our work), and altogether, there is no reason to dismiss LFD as nonphysiological.

      (2) Lack of biological mechanisms supporting the model

      The model is presented without compelling biological support. The evidence in support of vesicle undocking comes from experiments by the Watanabe lab, which showed fewerthanexpected docked vesicles under EM when cultured synapses were stimulated immediately prior to high-pressure freezing. Kusick et al were careful to note that these vesicles may have been lost to fusion.

      The Watanabe lab showed an SV deficit at docking sites at times ranging from about 100 ms to several seconds (Kusick et al., 2020, their Fig. 5E). This corresponds to the ISI values where we see paired-pulse depression. In their Summary, Kusick et al. raise the possibility of SV fusion as an alternative to undocking at the 100 ms time point. But, the same issue had previously been considered in Miki et al., 2018 with other techniques (their Fig. 2d), where it was shown that the SV deficit seen in paired-pulse experiments could not be explained by fusion. This leaves undocking as the most likely explanation, at least in our preparation. We have added a new paragraph on p. 14 to clarify this point.

      The putative undocking Kusick describes is immediate (< 5 ms after stimulation), and it was not shown to be Ca<sup>2+</sup> sensitive. This manuscript describes "calcium-dependent undocking" that proceeds from 10 ms - 200 ms. Multiple studies from the Watanabe lab show that a single stimulus lowers the number of docked vesicles, and subsequently, there is a transient redocking of vesicles that can be blocked by EGTA or Syt7 knockout.

      This is not an accurate description of the Kusick results or of our results. In the Kusick paper, the SV deficit seen at <5 ms after stimulation is attributed to exocytosis, not to undocking. Clearly, it is Ca<sup>2+</sup> dependent. Our manuscript describes potential calcium-dependent undocking not during the time 10 ms- 150 ms, during which our undocking rate is assumed to be calcium-independent, but starting at 150 ms, and lasting a few hundred ms thereafter.

      I also question the rationale for the authors' model that 2 vesicles are coupled in series to a single release site. Previous papers from this lab cited EM studies from frog and neuromuscular that showed filamentous connections between vesicles (do these synapses show LFD?). Here, the authors primarily cite their previous models to support their arguments. I encourage them to continue searching for ultrastructural evidence for 2-vesicle-docking-units and to cite such studies.

      It is important to remember that our sequential two-step model was not based on EM data, but on a series of functional data including variance-mean analysis of summed SV release numbers; covariance analysis among subsequent SV release numbers; analysis of release latencies as a function of stimulus number during an AP train; analysis of SV release numbers under conditions of very high release probability. We note that the phenomenon of Ca<sup>2+</sup>-dependent docking that we proposed based on these observations has been consistent with flash-and-freeze or zap-and-freeze results from several laboratories. Concerning potential filamentous connections between SVs and the AZ plasma membrane at a distance of several 10s of nm, this has been seen not only in frog or mice neuromuscular junctions, but also at brain synapses (ex: Siksou et al., Journal of Neuroscience 2007; Cole et al., Journal of Neuroscience 2016; Fernandez-Busnadiego, Journal of Cell Biology 2010; 2013).

      (3) Comparison to other vesicle models

      The authors use overly assertive language to suggest that the model proves a mechanism. "Altogether, these results indicate that the slow phase of LFD ... reflects a δ decrease without significant changes in pr, in ρ or in IP size". Simulating data does not conclusively "indicate" the underlying mechanism, but the authors could state their data can be "explained by a model where..".

      Please see our response above to a similar point by Reviewer 1.

      However, LFD does not require activity-dependent undocking. Instead, the phenomenon has been explained by high-release probability, paired with an activity-dependent increase in either docking or release probability (Chiu and Carter, 2024; Doussau et al., 2017). Does the new model do a better job of replicating some facet of the data? If multiple models can explain the same data, how can we determine which model is correct? The "Alternative Presynaptic Depression Mechanisms" should be expanded to discuss these issues.

      We could not find statements in the Chiu and Carter paper or in the Doussau et al. paper explaining LFD ‘by high-release probability, paired with an activity-dependent increase in either docking or release probability’. As far as we can see, Chiu and Carter do not propose any specific mechanism for LFD, beyond saying that depression and facilitation must be separate. Doussau et al. (their Fig. 6) clearly frame their interpretation in a sequential two-step model. As in the preceding Miki et al. paper (which they cite extensively), they assume a rapid (a few ms), Ca-dependent transition between their ‘reluctant pool’ and their ‘fully-releasable pool’, respectively homologous to RS and DS. Thus, the Doussau et al. interpretation is close to that presented in our present work, even though significant differences exist. An important difference is that Doussau et al. did not use simple synapses, so that they did not have access to key synaptic parameters such as the number of docking sites or the release probability per docking site. Consequently, the model in Doussau et al. does not have the same level of detail as ours. The revised version explains better the differences and similarity between the models of Doussau et al. and that exposed in our work (new paragraph on p. 14).

    1. Author Response:

      Summary of Planned Revisions:

      We will clarify the qPCR methodology and interpretation to address potential misunderstandings.

      We will assess hearing in the generated HA-tagged mouse lines and, where appropriate, include a properly powered ABR analysis in the revised manuscript.

      We will address concerns regarding the z-stack in Figure 1f.

      We will include additional quantification for Figure 7B to strengthen the analysis.

      We will revise the relevant statement to read: “No IHC stereocilia-enriched P4-ATPases were detected under the conditions examined.”

      While we appreciate the suggestion to examine TMEM30B localization on the ATP8B1 KO background, this is not feasible within a reasonable timeframe; we will clarify this limitation in the manuscript.

      We will incorporate relevant prior work (e.g., George and Ricci, 2026) demonstrating minimal Annexin V labeling prior to P6 and lack of PS externalization in TMC1/2 double knockout models.

      We will clarify that hearing thresholds for TMEM30B-HA and ATP8B1-HA lines will be addressed in this study, while additional HA-tagged flippase lines (ATP8A1, ATP8A2, ATP11A) are part of ongoing work to be reported separately.

      We will soften statements regarding HA-tag insertion and clarify that, to our knowledge, localization and function are not disrupted, while acknowledging this as a potential limitation.

      We will revise the Methods section to clarify differences in fluorescence measurements across experiments.

      In addition to the experiments in response to reviewer’s suggestions, we will add the following data that we have generated while the paper was in review:

      Distortion product otoacoustic emission (DPOAEs) of the Atp8b1 KO and Tmem30b KO mice. Consistent with OHC function, their DPOAEs thresholds were elevated.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      (1) Figure1D.

      The authors should clarify how the qPCR data were normalized and specify the reference (housekeeping) genes used. This information is necessary to evaluate the robustness and comparability of the gene expression data.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. qPCR data were normalized to GAPDH as the reference (housekeeping) gene. We will clarify this in the Methods section to ensure transparency and reproducibility.

      (2) Figure 1F.

      The lack of F-actin staining at the hair cell base raises the possibility that the permeabilization conditions may have limited antibody access to certain membrane regions. This is especially important given that the authors used a gentle permeabilization agent such as saponin to preserve membrane integrity. Because the authors conclude that ATP8B1 and TMEM30B are localized "almost exclusively to OHC bundles and the apical membrane, with minimal staining in the remaining plasma membrane," (line 128). Including co-labeling with a plasma membrane marker or more comprehensive F-actin visualization of lateral and basal regions would help ensure that the restricted localization is biological rather than technical. In the absence of such controls, the localization claim may be somewhat overstated and should be tempered accordingly.

      We appreciate this important point. The image shown represents a single z-slice from a larger stack, and the hair cell body lies outside the plane of this section. To clarify this, we will revise the figure presentation. Specifically, we can provide the full z-stack (already available via OSF) and/or replace the image with a resliced whole-mount view to better visualize the full cellular context.

      In terms of the possibility that the lack of staining in the hair cell’s plasma membrane might be due to insufficient antibody penetrance, we routinely perform Prestin (located in OHC plasma membrane) staining after saponin-mediated permeabilization and have never experienced antibody accessibility issues. Nevertheless, we will perform co-labeling for Prestin and include in the new submission.

      (3) Figure 7B.

      Although quantification of ATP8B1-HA intensity at the bundle appears similar between WT and Cib2 KO samples, the representative image suggests that some bundles lack detectable labeling. To better capture phenotype variability, it would be helpful to include an additional quantification showing the fraction or number of bundles with detectable ATP8B1-HA signal in Cib2 KO mice.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. To better capture variability, we will include an additional quantification measuring the fraction of hair cell bundles with detectable ATP8B1-HA and TMEM30B-HA signal per field of view. This analysis will complement the existing intensity-based quantification.

      (4) Lines 346-349

      The manuscript suggests that IHCs lack stereocilia-enriched P4-ATPases. However, this conclusion is not directly supported by the presented data. The authors should either provide supporting localization or expression data for other P4-ATPases or soften the statement to indicate that no stereocilia-enriched P4-ATPases were detected under the conditions examined.

      We agree with the reviewer and will revise this statement to read: “No IHC stereocilia-enriched P4-ATPases were detected under the conditions examined.”

      Recommendations:

      (5) The authors convincingly demonstrate that TMEM30B loss results in ATP8B1 mislocalization. While not essential to the central conclusions, examining TMEM30B localization in ATP8B1 KO hair cells would clarify whether this interdependence is reciprocal, as described for other P4-ATPase-CDC50 complexes.

      We appreciate this insightful suggestion. However, performing this experiment would require generating a compound mouse line (crossing TMEM30B-HA into the ATP8B1 knockout background), which is not feasible within the revision timeframe. Additionally, the lack of a robust commercial antibody for TMEM30B further complicates this approach. We will note this as a future direction in the revised manuscript.

      (6) Lines 359-374.

      The discussion of Annexin V labeling is careful and balanced. This paragraph would benefit from referencing other studies that showed minimal Annexin V labeling in healthy P6 organ of Corti, reinforcing that robust PS externalization in the present study is pathological rather than developmental.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion and will incorporate relevant prior work, including George and Ricci (2026), which demonstrates minimal Annexin V labeling prior to P6, and further supports our interpretation.

      (7) Lines 392-399.

      The proposed feedback model linking MET activity and ATP8B1-TMEM30B localization is compelling. The discussion could be strengthened by noting that in TMC1/2 double knockout hair cells, PS externalization is not observed, consistent with the idea that flippase activity becomes critical specifically when scrambling occurs. The mislocalization observed in Cib2 KO hair cells further supports the coupling between TMC-mediated scrambling and flippase-mediated membrane restoration.

      We agree and will expand the discussion to include that TMC1/2 double knockout hair cells do not exhibit phosphatidylserine externalization, supporting the idea that flippase activity becomes critical in the context of scrambling.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Are the HA tags causing any functional issues? Function and localization of tagged proteins can sometimes be compromised. It would be good to know, for each knock-in model (TMEM30B, ATP8B1, ATP8A1, ATP8A2, and ATP11A), whether the HA-tagged protein is causing any issues with the mice and particularly with hearing (ABRs). Are these mice normal? Can they hear? These data are missing.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. In this study, we will focus on TMEM30B-HA and ATP8B1-HA mouse lines, while additional HA-tagged flippase lines (ATP8A1, ATP8A2, ATP11A) are part of ongoing work to be reported separately.

      Both TMEM30B-HA and ATP8B1-HA mice are viable and exhibit normal breeding and aging. Preliminary (pilot) ABR measurements indicate wild-type–like hearing thresholds. We agree that this is important and will attempt to raise sufficient mouse numbers (in the time given) for a properly powered ABR analysis in the revised manuscript.

      (2) Following on the point above, is it possible that ATP8B1-HA is well localized, but localization for the other three flippases (ATP8A1-HA, ATP8A2-HA, and ATP11A-HA) is compromised by the tag? Is this potential mislocalization causing any functional phenotypes? (ABRs of point 1). I find it surprising that there are flippases only in outer hair cells and only formed by ATP8B1. A possible explanation is that the tag is interfering with trafficking. If so, there should be a phenotype (ABRs), although this might be masked by redundancy among these flippases or caused by systemic issues (admittedly difficult to sort out). Given that this manuscript will likely become foundational, and that there is evidence that at least two of the other flippases are involved in hearing loss, it would be good to provide more information about the mice and HA-tagged proteins in the other knock-ins (ATP8A1-HA, ATP8A2-HA, and ATP11A-HA). Depending on the data available for the knock-ins, the authors may want to discuss these scenarios and soften the statement indicating that inner-hair cells may lack flippase activity altogether.

      We appreciate this concern. To our knowledge, the HA tag does not appear to disrupt localization or function of the tagged proteins. However, we agree that this cannot be fully excluded. We will therefore soften our conclusions about IHC flippases and clarify that additional flippases (ATP8A1, ATP8A2, ATP11A) are under investigation and will be described in a separate study.

      (3) Expression of ATP8B1 at P0 (Figure 1D), when there should not be protein in outer hair cells yet seems high. Does this mean that other cells in the cochlea also express ATP8B1? Is this a concern?

      We thank the reviewer for this observation. We interpret the elevated signal at P0 as reflecting transcription preceding detectable protein expression. While expression in other cochlear cell types is possible, we have not observed detectable ATP8B1 localization outside hair cells using the HA-tagged model. We will clarify this point in the manuscript.

      (4) Fluorescence scales in Figure 6 B and D and Figure 7 B and D are very different. So are the values for WT. One would expect that the WT would be similar in all cases (at least within the same compartments), given that the methods section indicates that "All images were collected using identical acquisition parameters, including zoom and laser power, across genotypes". If WT shows such variability, how can we compare?

      We appreciate the need for clarification. Identical acquisition parameters were maintained within each experiment used for direct comparison (e.g., within a given panel). However, different panels (e.g., Figures 6B vs. 6D) were acquired on different days using different imaging settings.

      We will revise the Methods section to explicitly state this and clarify that comparisons are intended only within panels, not across experiments.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This paper examines plasticity in early cortical (V1-V3) areas in an impressively large number of rod monochromats (individuals with achromatopia). The paper examines three things:

      (1) Cortical thickness. It is now well established that early complete blindness leads to increases in cortical thickness. This paper shows increased thickness confined to the foveal projection zone within achromats. This paper replicates the work by Molz (2022) and Lowndes (2021), but the detailed mapping of cortical thickness as a function of eccentricity and the inclusion of higher visual areas is particularly elegant.

      (2) Failure to show largescale reorganization of early visual areas using retinotopic mapping. This is a replication of a very recent study by Molz et al. but I believe, given anatomical variability (and the very large n in this study) and how susceptible pRF findings are to small changes in procedure, this replication is also of interest.

      (3) Connective field modelling, examining the connections between V3-V1. The paper finds changes in the pattern of connections, and smaller connective fields in individuals with achromatopsia than normally sighted controls, and suggests that these reflect compensatory plasticity, with V3 compensating for the lower resolution V1 signal in individuals with achromatopsia.

      Strengths:

      This is a carefully done study (both in terms of data collection and analysis) that is an impressive amount of work. I have a number of methodological comments but I hope they will be considered as constructive engagement - this work is highly technical with a large number of factors to consider.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Effects of eye-movements

      I have some concerns with how the effects of eye-movements are being examined. There are two main reasons the authors give for excluding eye-movements as a factor in their results. Both explanations have limitations.

      (a) The first is that R2 values are similar across groups in the foveal confluence. This is fine as far as it goes, but R2 values are going to be low in that region. So this shows that eyemovements don't affect coverage (the number of voxels that generate a reliable pRF), but doesn't show that eye-movements aren't impacting their other measures.

      We agree with the reviewer that eye movements could affect pRF measures. We have now also included data for all participants where we were able to obtain eye tracking measures and directly tested this relationship. Relevant results are copied below.

      Recap of results: 1) as expected gaze was less stable in achromats than controls, 2) achromats with more stable gaze did not show more activation in the scotoma projections zone, which we might have observed if fixation instability masks signals in this region 3) Gaze instability was not correlated with pRF size and eccentricity across V1 in achromats. We note that the relationship between nystagmus and visual sampling is complex - patients experience a stable image and may sample only during a specific phase of the eye movement. It is therefore not inherently clear if and how nystagmus affects pRF size.

      Relevant Manuscript text incorporating these analyses is copied below.

      To quantify eye movement, we used the following methods added to the manuscript:

      “Fixation stability

      Participants’ gaze was tracked throughout all pRF mapping runs. Collecting reliable gaze data from individuals with nystagmus is a challenge because out of the box calibration procedures mostly fail without stable fixation. To account for this, we implemented a post-hoc custom calibration procedure (Tailor et al., 2021). The eye-tracker was first precalibrated on a typically sighted individual. Then, before every other run, we collected gaze data from a 5-point fixation task (at fixation and above, below, left, and right of fixation at 5 eccentricity). This data allowed us to subsequently map the patient's recorded gaze coordinates to their precise locations on the screen. In 10 out of the 14 achromats we acquired reliable enough data to assess fixation stability.

      Calibration data processing: We first removed the first 0.5 seconds for each fixation location to allow for fixation to arrive on the target. We then performed (a) blink removal, (b) filtered out time points with eye movement velocity outliers (±2SD), and (c) filtered out any positions >3SDs to the left or right of the mean fixation location, and >1SD above or below. We took the median of the remaining gaze measurements as an approximate fixation estimate. The resulting 5 median fixation locations were used to fit an affine transformation that remapped the recorded gaze positions into screen space. 

      Quantifying fixation stability: after applying the transformation of the post-hoc calibration, data was filtered for blinks and extreme velocities (<2SD). For each functional run, fixation instability was measured as the standard deviation of gaze x-positions across 1second windows. Measures were then averaged across the two run repeats.”

      We report the resulting new fixation data results as follows:

      Results (coverage section):

      “Another potential confound in our findings is fixation instability. In pRF mapping, which is usually conducted under photopic (cone-dominant) conditions, unstable fixation can cause a signal drop in the foveal projection zone. As expected due to nystagmus, the achromatopsia group showed higher fixation instability compared to controls (rodselective: t<sub>(9.08)</sub>=-3.19, p=0.01; non-selective: t<sub<(9.41)</sub>=-4.88, p<0.001 degrees-offreedom corrected for unequal-variance; see Supplement Figure S2a). However, several lines of evidence suggest this instability cannot fully account for the lack of "filling in" in achromats. First, within the achromat group, we found no correlation between fixation stability and coverage (rod-selective: spearman-r<sub>(8)</sub> = -0.36, p=0.31; non-selective spearman-r<sub>(8)</sub>=0.07,p=0.85); Individuals with more stable, control-like fixation did not show more signal inside the scotoma (see Supplement 2). Second, in adults with achromatopsia, typically with less severe nystagmus (Kohl et al., 1993), two recent studies also found absence of filling in (Anderson et al., 2024; Molz et al., 2023).

      So, while we cannot fully exclude nystagmus masking foveal signals in the cortex of some patients, this converging evidence from structural and functional MRI measures across different studies and groups, strongly suggests that the deprived cortex does not substantially ‘fill in’ with peripheral rod inputs in achromatopsia.”

      Results (pRF size + eccentricity):

      “Larger pRFs indicate that neuronal populations in achromats’ V1 cortex, combine information across larger areas in visual space than in typically sighted controls. This could reflect true neural tuning differences as well as be driven by larger eye movement. However, fixation instability in achromats do not significantly correlate with pRF size in our sample (rod-selective: spearman-r<sub>(8)</sub> = -0.41, p=0.24; non-selective spearman-r<sub>(8)</sub>=0.37,p=0.29)

      It has been shown that fitting artefacts around scotoma edges, can give rise to similar outward eccentricity shifts (Binda et al., 2013). However, when accounting for fitting artefacts around the foveal scotoma edge by modelling the rod-free zone during pRF fitting, pRF size and eccentricity differences remain unchanged (see Supplement 3). Finally, we found no significant correlations between gaze stability and the eccentricity shift (rod-selective: spearman-r<sub>(8)</sub> = 0.58, p=0.08; non-selective spearman-r<sub>(8)</sub>=0.09,p=0.8, Supplement 4D)

      Together, these analyses reveal subtle differences in how V1 of achromats responds to rod signals outside the foveal zone, which are consistent with results from other studies (Molz et al. 2023, Anderson et al. 2024). While we found no direct evidence that these are being driven by confounding factors such as eye-movements or fitting artefacts, more work is needed to understand the underlying processes that give rise to these shifts.”

      The following text has been added to Supplement 2

      “As expected, achromats showed significant higher fixation instability compared to controls (as reported in the main text). We found no significant correlation between fixation instability and either coverage, pRF size, eccentricity in achromats. Results of Spearman R correlations in both rod- and non-selective conditions are reported in the figure. We note that the relationship between nystagmus and visual sampling is complex- patients experience a stable image and may sample only during specific eyemovement phases. It is therefore not fully clear if and how nystagmus should give rise to altered pRFs.”

      (b) The authors don't see a clear relationship between coverage and fixation stability. This seems to rest on a few ad hoc examples. (What happens if one plots mean fixation deviation vs. coverage (and sets the individuals who could not be calibrated as the highest value of calibrated fixation deviation. Does a relationship then emerge?).

      In any case, I wouldn't expect coverage to be particularly susceptible to eye-movements. If a voxel in the cortex entirely projects to the scotoma then it should be robustly silent. The effects of eye-movements will be to distort the size and eccentricity estimates of voxels that are not entirely silent.

      There are many places in the paper where eye-movements might be playing an important role. 

      Examples include the larger pRF sizes observed in achromats. Are those related to fixation instability?

      We thank the reviewer for their comment. As detailed in our previous response, we have now extracted fixation instability data from additional patients and have expanded our discussion of its potential effects throughout the manuscript.

      Given that fixation instability is expected to increase pRF size by a fixed amount, that would explain why ratios are close to 1 in V3 (Figure 4).

      We agree with the reviewer’s point, that the ratio change on its own is not strong evidence of compensation, this analysis was meant to complement the CF result. The plot in Figure 4 is intended to reconcile the connective field (CF) and pRF results. Its purpose is to illustrate that even though larger pRFs in achromats might seem counterintuitive alongside their smaller V3 CF sizes, the pRF data do not contradict the CF findings but they are in fact consistent with one another. We also agree that there are alternative explanations for the differences in pRF size, such as fixation stability, and we have now added this point to the text.

      Results (CF size):

      “To understand how this finer cortical sampling in V3 (smaller connective fields) impacts visual processing, we consider its effect on population receptive fields (pRFs). In V1, pRF sizes in achromats were significantly larger than in controls for both stimulus conditions, indicating coarser spatial tuning at the cortical input stage (Figure 4C, left). By selectively sampling from a smaller area of the V1 surface (smaller CFs), V3 can effectively compensate for this coarser input. If so, this process should result in a relative normalisation of pRF size in V3 compared to V1 (Figure 4C, right).

      To test this prediction, we plotted the ratio of pRF sizes between achromats and controls, where a value of 1 indicates parity between the groups (Figure 4B). As our compensatory connective field hypothesis predicts, the ratio was closer to 1 in V3 than in V1 across both stimulus conditions, confirming the pRF size difference was significantly reduced at the higher cortical stage. Together this shows converging evidence across the two models (pRF and CF) of hierarchical refinement as a possible compensatory mechanism, where V3's altered connectivity helps to normalize the processing of degraded sensory input from V1.”

      Discussion:

      “The hierarchical reorganisation observed in V3 is unlikely to be driven by fixation instability. Connective field (CF) estimates are robust to eye movements (Tangtartharakul et al., 2023), because they are anchored to V1 inputs rather than absolute screen position. Considered alone, the pRF results could alternatively be explained by eye movements introducing a fixed size offset that affects smaller V1 pRFs more strongly than those in V3. While we found no evidence for this relationship between pRF size and gaze measures in our patients, we cannot fully rule out the possibility. Nevertheless, the internal consistency between the CF and pRF measures provides a more parsimonious account; that sampling across the hierarchy accounts for coarser tuning at the input stage.”

      (2) Topography

      The claim of no change in topography is a little confusing given that you do see a change in eccentricity mapping in achromats. 

      Either this result is real, in which case there *is* a change in topography, albeit subtle, or it's an artifact. 

      Perhaps these results need a little bit of additional scrutiny. 

      One reason for concern is that you see different functions relating eccentricity to V1 segments depending on the stimulus. That almost certainly reflects biases in the modelling, not reorganization - the curves of Figure 2D are exactly what Binda et al. predict. 

      Another reason for concern is that I'm very surprised that you see so little effect of including/not including the scotoma - the differences seem more like what I'd expect from simply repeating the same code twice. (The quickest sanity check is just to increase the size of the estimated scotoma to be even bigger?).

      We thank the reviewer for their comment. We have double-checked our scotoma modelling, confirming its correct implementation. The results of the scotoma modelling are not identical to the full one, just similar (see below).

      Previous studies on “artificial scotomas” (such as the one reported by Binda et al.) have shown mixed results. While Binda and colleagues found that modelling artificial scotomas normalised pRF shifts, others found no effect (Haak et al. 2012, Prabhakaran et al. 2020). Notably, the rodfree zone in achromatopsia is considerably smaller (~0.5° radius) than most tested artificial scotomas. Moreover, it is unclear whether scotoma modelling is beneficial in clinical populations as artificial scotomas (screen-based masking) are not equivalent to retinal scotomas from inactive photoreceptors. A recent achromatopsia study (Anderson et al. 2024) also found no change in pRF estimates with scotoma modelling.

      In our scotoma analyses, we found meaningful differences only in the non-selective condition in controls where cones in the rod-free zone are stimulated - which would be the main expected effect of this modelling exercise (see below). In all other conditions (rod-selective in controls, both conditions in achromats), only rods are stimulated, we found no difference in coverage, eccentricity or pRF size when modelling the scotoma likely because the foveal signal is weak/absent, and did not contribute much to pRF estimates in the unmasked analyses.

      This means we cannot account for the eccentricity shift as an edge effect with this scotoma model – but we remain cautious about interpreting it as real. This is because first, as we mention in the paper, in the non-selective condition, which has a higher signal-to-noise ratio, the eccentricity estimates in achromats match those of the control group's rod system. Second, it is still possible that the observed shift is an artefact of modelling that was not accounted for by the approach of scotoma modelling.

      Our claim of "no change in topography" specifically referred to the absence of "filling-in" as measured by cortical coverage - the percentage of activated tissue regardless of fitted parameters. However, to avoid confusing given the eccentricity and pRF size results we now rephrased our claim.

      Abstract:

      “Cortical input stages (V1) exhibited high stability, with input-deprived cortex showing no retinotopic remapping and exhibiting structural hallmarks of deprivation.”

      Results (pRF eccentricity):

      “It has been shown that fitting artefacts around scotoma edges, can give rise to similar outward eccentricity shifts (Binda et al., 2013). However, when accounting for fitting artefacts around the foveal scotoma edge by modelling the rod-free zone during pRF fitting, pRF size and eccentricity differences remain unchanged (see Supplement 3). Finally, we found no significant correlations between gaze stability and the eccentricity shift (rod-selective: spearman-r<sub>(8)</sub> = 0.58, p=0.08; non-selective spearman-r<sub>(8)</sub>=0.09,p=0.8, Supplement 4D)

      Together, these analyses reveal subtle differences in how V1 of achromats responds to rod signals outside the foveal zone, which are consistent with results from other studies (Molz et al. 2023, Anderson et al. 2024). While we found no direct evidence that these are being driven by confounding factors such as eye movements or fitting artefacts, more work is needed to understand the underlying processes that give rise to these shifts.”

      To better illustrate the effect of scotoma modelling text has been added to Supplement 3:

      “Studies on artificial scotomas, where part of the visual field is masked, suggest that pRF estimates of eccentricity and size can be biased by fitting scotoma-edge artefacts, and that these can be mitigated by modelling the scotoma in the pRF fitting procedure (e.g., Binda et al. 2013).

      We therefore repeated the pRF modelling procedure with the rod-scotoma being modelled as a black oval mask (1.25°x0.9°) over the stimulus aperture model. As expected, a visible difference between the two models is only apparent in the nonselective condition in controls where the cones in the rod-free zone are being stimulated. In all the other conditions (rod-selective in controls, and both stimulation conditions in achromats) only the rods are stimulated, therefore the masked stimulus still matches the retinal activation, and no major differences can be observed. Performing the same statistical tests applied to the full model in the main text yields equivalent results of equivalent coverage in the rod-selective condition, with equivalent coverage across groups(t(47) = 0.78, p=0.43, BF10=0.31) and controls show a higher coverage in the non-selective stimulation condition compared to achromats (Mann U(52)=141, p<0.01; unequal variance, reverted to non-parametric).

      This consistency in pRF properties when modelling the rod scotoma, is in line with previous results from scotoma modelling; While Binda and colleagues found that this normalised pRF shifts, others found no effect (Haak et al. 2012, Prabhakaran et al. 2020). Notably, the rod-free zone in achromatopsia is considerably smaller (~0.5° radius) than most tested artificial scotomas, and as artificial scotomas (screen-based masking) are not equivalent to retinal scotomas from inactive photoreceptors, it is unclear how artificial scotoma findings generalise to clinical populations. Our results are in line with a recent achromatopsia study (Anderson et al. 2024) which also found no change in pRF estimates with scotoma modelling.”

      I'd also look at voxels that pass an R2>0.2 threshold for both the non-selective and selective stimulus. Are the pRF sizes the same for both stimuli? Are the eccentricity estimates? If not, that's another clear warning sign.

      Comparable results were obtained when using higher R2 thresholds. These results are now included in Supplement 6.

      (3) Connective field modelling

      Let's imagine a voxel on the edge of the scotoma. It will tend to have a connective field that borders the scotoma, and will be reduced in size (since it will likely exclude the cortical region of V1 that is solely driven by resting state activity). This predicts your rod monochromat data. The interesting question is why this doesn't happen for controls. One possibility is that there is topdown 'predictive' activity that smooths out the border of the scotoma (there's some hint of that in the data), e.g., Masuda and Wandell.

      One thing that concerns me is that the smaller connective fields don't make sense intuitively. When there is a visual stimulus, connective fields are predominantly driven by the visual signal. In achromats, there is a large swath of cortex (between 1-2.5 degrees) which shows relatively flat tuning as regards eccentricity. The curves for controls are much steeper, See Figure 2b. This predicts that visually driven connective fields should be larger for achromats. So, what's going on?

      The reviewer raises interesting points about the interpretation of our connective field results. The possibility of differential top-down modulation between controls and achromats is intriguing, however it is not supported by the data, if top-down modulation is activating foveal V1 in controls then we shouldn’t see a drop in the amount of significant vertices sampling from the fovea in the rod-selective condition compared to the non-selective, but in fact we do see quite a large drop in the amount of significant vertices in that area in the rod-selective condition. Therefore, at the moment we do not think there is strong basis to assume our data could be explained by achromats lacking top-down predictive activity in the scotoma area that is present in controls.

      Regarding the concern about smaller CFs seeming counterintuitive given the flat eccentricity tuning in achromats' V1: we believe there is not a straightforward prediction from pRF properties to CF sizes. The relationship between V1 pRF characteristics and V3 CF sampling is complex and not well-established in the literature, and the two can be decoupled to some degree. For instance, in our data, controls show flat V1 pRF sizes in the rod-selective condition (similar to achromats), yet their V3 CF sizes maintain the typical eccentricity-dependent increase seen in the non-selective condition. This suggests that CF size patterns don't simply mirror V1 pRF properties or visual stimuli responses.

      Importantly, CF modelling fundamentally differs from pRF analysis in how it might be affected by scotomas. Unlike pRF analysis where a scotoma creates a "silent" region in visual space, in CF modelling the deprived cortex remains physically present and continues generating neural signals (albeit not visually-driven ones). If V3-V1 connectivity were anatomically fixed, V3 would continue sampling from deprived V1 regions even if they do not produce visual-driven signals. A change in this sampling pattern, as we see in our data, is therefore evidence for plasticity.

      Our data support this interpretation. First, in achromats, the CF size pattern observed cannot be easily explained by scotoma-edge artefacts. V3 vertices sampling from the immediate vicinity of the scotoma (1°-3°) show CF sizes comparable to controls. The effect is only significant further away from the scotoma (4°-6°).

      Second, to assess how the presence of a scotoma affects CF measure we can compare the two conditions in the controls, since the rod-selective condition has a scotoma present and the nonselective condition does not. For this purpose, we performed an additional analysis, quantifying on a vertex-by-vertex level the differences in CF fitted parameters between the two stimulation conditions across V1. See results below. In achromats there are no systematic shifts between the stimulation conditions, as expected as both are rod-driven. In controls, this analysis reveals only subtle shifts (~0.45° in the rod-selective condition). CF size has also changed slightly although not significantly different from that observed in achromats. These shifts are much smaller than the CF size and eccentricity differences between controls and achromats, so we consider it unlikely that our findings are driven by scotoma artefacts.

      Author response image 1.

      Results (CF size):

      “The significant CF size differences are unlikely to be a model-fitting bias around a scotoma edge, as V3 vertices sampling from the immediate vicinity of the scotoma (1°3°) show CF sizes comparable to controls. The significant reduction in CF size occurs only further in the periphery (4°-6°), in regions that are primarily stimulus-driven.

      To understand how this finer cortical sampling in V3 (smaller connective fields) impacts visual processing, we consider its effect on population receptive fields (pRFs). In V1, pRF sizes in achromats were significantly larger than in controls for both stimulus conditions, indicating coarser spatial tuning at the cortical input stage (Figure 4C, left). By selectively sampling from a smaller area of the V1 surface (smaller CFs), V3 can effectively compensate for this coarser input. If so, this process should result in a relative normalisation of pRF size in V3 compared to V1 (Figure 4C, right).

      To test this prediction, we plotted the ratio of pRF sizes between achromats and controls, where a value of 1 indicates parity between the groups (Figure 4B). As our compensatory connective field hypothesis predicts, the ratio was closer to 1 in V3 than in V1 across both stimulus conditions, confirming the pRF size difference was significantly reduced at the higher cortical stage. Together this shows converging evidence across the two models (pRF and CF) of hierarchical refinement as a possible compensatory mechanism, where V3's altered connectivity helps to normalize the processing of degraded sensory input from V1.”

      Discussion (added paragraph):

      “The hierarchical reorganisation observed in V3 is unlikely to be driven by fixation instability. Connective field (CF) estimates are robust to eye movements (Tangtartharakul et al., 2023), because they are anchored to V1 inputs rather than absolute screen position. Considered alone, the pRF results could alternatively be explained by eye movements introducing a fixed size offset that affects smaller V1 pRFs more strongly than those in V3. While we found no evidence for this relationship between pRF size and gaze measures in our patients, we cannot fully rule out the possibility. Nevertheless, the internal consistency between the CF and pRF measures provides a more parsimonious account; that sampling across the hierarchy accounts for coarser tuning at the input stage.”

      The beta parameter is not described (and I believe it can alter connective field sizes).

      In Author response image 2, we plot the beta parameter of the pRF modelling in V1 with no R<sup>2</sup> filtering, error bars are 95% CIs:

      Author response image 2.

      The reviewer did not specify how beta might alter connective field sizes. We assume he meant that as in pRF mapping, the slope of activity from deprived to non-deprived cortex will artefactually create a CF model fit with smaller CF sizes. To test this, we calculated the slope of beta values between 0° and 3° in each participant in the rod-selective condition, as this range includes the scotoma and the area at the edge of the scotoma. We then used the slope as a covariate in an ANCOVA when comparing the CF sizes across groups in each sampled V1 segment. Accounting for the beta slope of V1 did not change the reported results. This analysis still shows smaller CF sizes in V3 in the rod-selective conditions between 4°-6° eccentricity – these differences remain significant (p<0.001 for 4°-5° and p<0.05 for 5°-6° when comparing achromats vs controls).

      Similarly, it's possible to get very small connective fields, but there wasn't a minimum size described in the thresholding.

      CF sizes were fit with a grid fit. Possible values were [0.5,1,2,3,4,5,7,10]. Therefore, the minimum size is 0.5. Filtering out the smallest connective field sizes does not change the results:

      Author response image 3.

      I might be missing something obvious, but I'm just deeply confused as to how the visual maps and the connectome maps can provide contradictory results given that the connectome maps are predominantly determined by the visual signal. Some intuition would be helpful.

      We agree that this appears counterintuitive, and now added further clarification. The two models (pRF and CF) fundamentally differ in what they measure and how they relate to visual processing. V1 pRF sizes reflect the relationship between neural activity and visual stimuli - essentially how much of a visual stimulus drives a voxel's response - while V3 CF sizes reflect how V3 samples from the V1 cortical surface, indicating how many V1 voxels contribute to a V3 voxel's activity.

      The measures constrain each other, as a V3 voxel's pRF size is expected to match the pooling of its connected V1 inputs. But they can be decoupled: A V3 voxel could sample from a small area of V1 cortex (a small CF in mm) that happens to represent a large area of visual space if those V1 voxels have large pRFs. The aim of Figure 4B is to clarify that the measures are consistent with one another even though they diverge in direction. In achromats, where V1 voxels have larger pRFs (coarser spatial resolution), V3 appears to compensate by sampling more selectively from V1 via smaller CF sizes. Theoretically, this should reduce the pRF size difference between controls and patients in V3, a prediction that our data supports.

      Results (CF size):

      “To understand how this finer cortical sampling in V3 (smaller connective fields) impacts visual processing, we consider its effect on population receptive fields (pRFs). In V1, pRF sizes in achromats were significantly larger than in controls for both stimulus conditions, indicating coarser spatial tuning at the cortical input stage (Figure 4C, left). By selectively sampling from a smaller area of the V1 surface (smaller CFs), V3 can effectively compensate for this coarser input. If so, this process should result in a relative normalisation of pRF size in V3 compared to V1 (Figure 4C, right).

      To test this prediction, we plotted the ratio of pRF sizes between achromats and controls, where a value of 1 indicates parity between the groups (Figure 4B). As our compensatory connective field hypothesis predicts, the ratio was closer to 1 in V3 than in V1 across both stimulus conditions, confirming the pRF size difference was significantly reduced at the higher cortical stage. Together this shows converging evidence across the two models (pRF and CF) of hierarchical refinement as a possible compensatory mechanism, where V3's altered connectivity helps to normalize the processing of degraded sensory input from V1.”

      Discussion (added paragraph):

      “The hierarchical reorganisation observed in V3 is unlikely to be driven by fixation instability. Connective field (CF) estimates are robust to eye movements (Tangtartharakul et al., 2023), because they are anchored to V1 inputs rather than absolute screen position. Considered alone, the pRF results could alternatively be explained by eye movements introducing a fixed size offset that affects smaller V1 pRFs more strongly than those in V3. While we found no evidence for this relationship between pRF size and gaze measures in our patients, we cannot fully rule out the possibility. Nevertheless, the internal consistency between the CF and pRF measures provides a more parsimonious account; that sampling across the hierarchy accounts for coarser tuning at the input stage.”

      Some analyses might also help provide the reader with insight. For example, doing analyses separately on V3 voxels that project entirely to scotoma regions, project entirely to stimulusdriven regions, and V3 voxels that project to 'mixed' regions.

      We agree that it is important to plot the connective field dynamics across the scotoma region.

      In Figure 4A we split the V3 vertices based on the V1 area they sample from. Therefore the 0°-1° would be considered as mainly sampling from the “scotoma” region and the higher the eccentricity is, the less “scotoma” it includes. The V3 vertices that have a significantly smaller CF size compared to controls are those sampling from mostly if not entirely stimulusdriven regions 4°-5° and 5°-6°. We are not sure how further binning the data by within, across and outside scotoma would be more informative.

      However, in Author response image 4, we plot in more details the distribution of CF sizes sampling from a V1 segment clearly inside and clearly outside the scotoma. The top figure shows the CF size distribution of V3 vertices that sample from a V1 0°-1° segment, where V1 is deprived of input due to the rod scotoma. In achromats, there is a clear drop in vertices with a very small (0.5) CF size. The bottom figure shows the distribution of V3 vertices that sample from the V1 4°-5° segment which falls outside the scotoma and shows a significant difference in CF size across the groups. Here in achromats you can see a drop in larger V3 CF sizes sampling from the V1 region, and an increase in smaller ones (note that this further addresses a previous concern that connective field differences across groups are solely driven by very small CFs).

      Author response image 4.

      Following the reviewer’s comment we have added the following statement in the results section discussing CF size:

      “The significant CF size differences are unlikely to be a model-fitting bias around a scotoma edge, as V3 vertices sampling from the immediate vicinity of the scotoma (1°3°) show CF sizes comparable to controls. The significant reduction in CF size occurs only further in the periphery (4°-6°), in regions that are primarily stimulus-driven.”

      The finding that pRF sizes are larger in achromats by a constant factor as a function of eccentricity is what differences in eye-movements would predict. It would be worth examining the relationship between pRF sizes and fixation stability.

      We found no relationship between fixation stability and pRF size in V1, although as we explain in response to an earlier point, this does not fully exclude the reviewers alterative explanation, which we now add to the discussion.

      Discussion:

      “The hierarchical reorganisation observed in V3 is unlikely to be driven by fixation instability. Connective field (CF) estimates are robust to eye movements (Tangtartharakul et al., 2023), because they are anchored to V1 inputs rather than absolute screen position. Considered alone, the pRF results could alternatively be explained by eye movements introducing a fixed size offset that affects smaller V1 pRFs more strongly than those in V3. While we found no evidence for this relationship between pRF size and gaze measures in our patients, we cannot fully rule out the possibility. Nevertheless, the internal consistency between the CF and pRF measures provides a more parsimonious account; that sampling across the hierarchy accounts for coarser tuning at the input stage.”

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors inspect the stability and compensatory plasticity in the retinotopic mapping in patients with congenital achromatopsia. They report an increased cortical thickness in central (eccentricities 0-2 deg) in V1 and the expansion of this effect to V2 (trend) and V3 in a cohort with an average age of adolescents.

      In analyzing the receptive fields, they show that V1 had increased receptive field sizes in achromats, but there were no clear signs of reorganization filling in the rod-free area. In contrast, V3 showed an altered readout of V1 receptive fields. V3 of achromats oversampled the receptive fields bordering the rod-free zone, presumably to compensate and arrive at similar receptive fields as in the controls.

      These findings support a retention of peripheral-V1 connectivity, but a reorganization of later hierarchical stages of the visual system to compensate for the loss, highlighting a balance between stability and compensation in different stages of the visual hierarchy.

      Strengths:

      The experiment is carefully analyzed, and the data convey a clear and interesting message about the capacities of plasticity. 

      Weaknesses:

      The existence of unstable fixation and nystagmus in the patient group is alluded to, but not quantified or modeled out in the analyses. The authors may want to address this possible confound with a quantitative approach.

      We have responded to this in the “Recommendations for the authors” section of this reviewer, as they included a more detailed description of these points there.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) I think the term rod monochromats should be included early in the paper since it's a more intuitive term to describe this population.

      We agree with the reviewer that the term “rod monochromats” is more intuitive as it clarifies the retinal source of the disease but have chosen the term achromats for consistency with a wide literature of published work in this group, including our own and our close collaborators’. To clarify, in the first mention of the group as achromats in the introduction we have now added this term:

      “Achromatopsia (also known as rod monochromacy) causes cone photoreceptors in the retina to be inactive from birth (Aboshiha et al., 2014).”

      (2) The paper essentially contains two definitions of 'eccentricity'. One (atlas/segments) comes from the Benson atlas and the other (functional) comes from pRF mapping. It would be good to make this distinction terminology clearer earlier in the paper. It would also be good to use more consistent terminology. I assume 'sampled atlas V1 eccentricity' in 3A is the same as 'V1 segment' in 1A?

      For consistency we have now referred to these as V1 segment and sampled V1 segment in the figures when describing the atlas-based definition, and eccentricity for the measured pRF-based eccentricity.

      (3) The 'stability vs. plasticity' framing in the introduction could be tightened slightly.

      We have made the following changes following the reviewer’s comment:

      “In the visual domain, the focal point of the debate on plasticity and stability has hinged on the extent to which retinal input deprivation can drive local reorganisation in early visual cortex, for example, for deprived tissue to take on inputs from spared retinal locations (Adams et al., 2007; Baker et al., 2005, 2008; Baseler et al., 2002, 2011; Calford et al., 2005; Dilks et al., 2009; Dumoulin & Knapen, 2018; Ferreira et al., 2016; Goesaert et al., 2014; Haak et al., 2015; Molz et al., 2023; Ritter et al., 2019; Schumacher et al., 2008). In reality visual impairment is a more global phenomenon, affecting all levels of visual processing, with complex dynamics beyond constricted local retinocortical projection zones(Carvalho et al., 2019).”

      (4) Figure 1A, define the x axis as degrees.

      We have now added the ° sign to all the tick labels indicating Benson map eccentricity.

      (5) Figure 2B, is there room for pictures of the silent substitution/standard stimulus

      We have now added images in a Supplement 5 to avoid cluttering the main Figure 2B

      (6) Figure 2

      Panel A has a slightly weird organization. The reader is supposed to compare the square symbols to each other, and the circles to each other, why not organize the figure so they are adjacent in the graph (i.e. non selective control, non-selective achromat, selective control, selective achromat)? That also helps the reader orient that in the non-selective conditions you have almost complete pRF coverage. 

      We have taken on the reviewer’s suggestion and changed the order.

      In the inset, maybe use empty symbols? That's the traditional way to say that the square/circle applies to both red and black.

      We prefer the current format.

      Figure 2C - the symbols change to circles? Why not keep the symbols of A?

      We have now changed the symbols of 2C&D.

      I'd put the non-selective maps above the selective maps?

      We appreciate the feedback but prefer to keep it as it is, as we feel the critical point is conveyed by the rod maps.

      (7) 'We propose a new hierarchical model of neural adaptation'. These ideas are hardly new. There are also other models, that would explain your data (cumulative plasticity) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5953572/

      We thank the reviewer for the reference. We have now cited it in our discussion and removed the word “new” form the mentioned sentence.

      “Therefore, there is theoretically broader scope for experience-dependent reweighting of inputs (Beyeler et al., 2017; Makin & Krakauer, 2023) and to optimise use of inputs that are still available, more reliable, or more relevant in the impaired system. Conversely, higher-order visual areas may appear more plastic simply because they integrate the cumulative effects of learning from multiple lower stages (Beyeler et al., 2017).”

      We propose a hierarchical model of neural adaptation…” [deleted the word new]

      (8) Line 508. No image of the stimulus is contained in the paper

      Corrected

      (9) Line 620. I believe the Figure is 1B, not 1C.

      Corrected

      (10) Figure 4A. CF Size - add mm2 to the axes.

      Corrected

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I am not an expert on pRF mapping, and as such, I am unsure how to relate to pRF mapping performed in patients with unstable fixation (not quantified, but referred to) and nystagmus, such as the achromatic population here. Since the majority of the results hinge on this analysis, I would appreciate more data about the differences between the groups. Supplement 2, which is meant to speak to this, shows only the data from 3 typical participants, and in itself is not evidence for "no correlation between stable fixation and enhanced foveal". Additionally, I'd appreciate a clear methods explanation of how the authors address these confounds; this is too important a concern to be left for the discussion section.

      We agree with the reviewer that eye movements could affect pRF measures. We have now also included data for all participants where we were able to obtain eye tracking measures and directly tested this relationship. Relevant results are copied below.

      Recap of results: 1) as expected gaze was less stable in achromats than controls, 2) achromats with more stable gaze did not show more activation in the scotoma projections zone, which we might have observed if fixation instability masks signals in this region 3) Gaze instability was not correlated with pRF size and eccentricity across V1 in achromats. We note that the relationship between nystagmus and visual sampling is complex - patients experience a stable image and may sample only during a specific phase of the eye movement. It is therefore not inherently clear if and how nystagmus affects pRF size.

      Relevant Manuscript text incorporating these analyses is copied below.

      To quantify eye movement, we used the following methods added to the manuscript:

      “Fixation stability

      Participants’ gaze was tracked throughout all pRF mapping runs. Collecting reliable gaze data from individuals with nystagmus is a challenge because out of the box calibration procedures mostly fail without stable fixation. To account for this, we implemented a post-hoc custom calibration procedure (Tailor et al., 2021). The eye-tracker was first precalibrated on a typically sighted individual. Then, before every other run, we collected gaze data from a 5-point fixation task (at fixation and above, below, left, and right of fixation at 5 eccentricity). This data allowed us to subsequently map the patient's recorded gaze coordinates to their precise locations on the screen. In 10 out of the 14 achromats we acquired reliable enough data to assess fixation stability.

      Calibration data processing: We first removed the first 0.5 seconds for each fixation location to allow for fixation to arrive on the target. We then performed (a) blink removal, (b) filtered out time points with eye movement velocity outliers (±2SD), and (c) filtered out any positions >3SDs to the left or right of the mean fixation location, and >1SD above or below. We took the median of the remaining gaze measurements as an approximate fixation estimate. The resulting 5 median fixation locations were used to fit an affine transformation that remapped the recorded gaze positions into screen space.

      Quantifying fixation stability: after applying the transformation of the post-hoc calibration, data was filtered for blinks and extreme velocities (<2SD). For each functional run, fixation instability was measured as the standard deviation of gaze x-positions across 1second windows. Measures when then averaged across the two run repeats.”

      Results (coverage section):

      “Another potential confound in our findings is fixation instability. In pRF mapping, which is usually conducted under photopic (cone-dominant) conditions, unstable fixation can cause a signal drop in the foveal projection zone. As expected due to nystagmus, the achromatopsia group showed higher fixation instability compared to controls (rodselective: t<sub>(9.08)</sub>=-3.19, p=0.01; non-selective: t<sub<(9.41)</sub>=-4.88, p<0.001 degrees-offreedom corrected for unequal-variance; see Supplement Figure S2a). However, several lines of evidence suggest this instability cannot fully account for the lack of "filling in" in achromats. First, within the achromat group, we found no correlation between fixation stability and coverage (rod-selective: spearman-r<sub>(8)</sub> = -0.36, p=0.31; non-selective spearman-r<sub>(8)</sub>=0.07,p=0.85); Individuals with more stable, control-like fixation did not show more signal inside the scotoma (see Supplement 2). Second, in adults with achromatopsia, typically with less severe nystagmus (Kohl et al., 1993), two recent studies also found absence of filling in (Anderson et al., 2024; Molz et al., 2023).

      So, while we cannot fully exclude nystagmus masking foveal signals in the cortex of some patients, this converging evidence from structural and functional MRI measures across different studies and groups, strongly suggests that the deprived cortex does not substantially ‘fill in’ with peripheral rod inputs in achromatopsia.”

      Results (pRF size + eccentricity):

      “Larger pRFs indicate that neuronal populations in achromats’ V1 cortex, combine information across larger areas in visual space than in typically sighted controls. This could reflect true neural tuning differences as well as be driven by larger eye movement. However, fixation instability in achromats do not significantly correlate with pRF size in our sample (rod-selective: spearman-r<sub>(8)</sub> = -0.41, p=0.24; non-selective spearman-r<sub>(8)</sub>=0.37,p=0.29)

      It has been shown that fitting artefacts around scotoma edges, can give rise to similar outward eccentricity shifts (Binda et al., 2013). However, when accounting for fitting artefacts around the foveal scotoma edge by modelling the rod-free zone during pRF fitting, pRF size and eccentricity differences remain unchanged (see Supplement 3). Finally, we found no significant correlations between gaze stability and the eccentricity shift (rod-selective: spearman-r<sub>(8)</sub> = 0.58, p=0.08; non-selective spearman-r<sub>(8)</sub>=0.09,p=0.8, Supplement 4D)

      Together, these analyses reveal subtle differences in how V1 of achromats responds to rod signals outside the foveal zone, which are consistent with results from other studies (Molz et al. 2023, Anderson et al. 2024). While we found no direct evidence that these are being driven by confounding factors such as eye-movements or fitting artefacts, more work is needed to understand the underlying processes that give rise to these shifts.”

      The following text has been added to Supplement 2

      “As expected, achromats showed significant higher fixation instability compared to controls (as reported in the main text). We found no significant correlation between fixation instability and either coverage, pRF size, eccentricity in achromats. Results of Spearman R correlations in both rod- and non-selective conditions are reported in the figure. We note that the relationship between nystagmus and visual sampling is complex- patients experience a stable image and may sample only during specific eyemovement phases. It is therefore not fully clear if and how nystagmus should give rise to altered pRFs.”

      The field connectivity analysis similarly seems to be used only on task data from the same design; if it was replicated from resting-state data, that would be a good way to show consistency which is independent of measures requiring fixation. 

      We agree that resting-state data would be valuable; however, we did not collect such data in these individuals due to time limitations. Instead, we demonstrate the consistency and reliability of our results by replicating our findings across two different stimulation conditions (rod-selective and non-selective), which differ in luminance, contrast and signal amplitude in both groups and for controls also in the photoreceptors involved. The convergence of results across these distinct visual conditions strengthens our confidence in the reliability of the observed effects. Also, notably, CF estimates have been shown to be robust to large eye movements, and therefore also to differences in fixation stability across groups (Tangtartharakul et al., 2023).

      The authors may want to contextualize their findings in relation to what reorganization exists in cases of late-onset loss of part of the visual field on one hand (stroke recovery), and in the case of complete blindness from early life on the other, as both speak to different levels of plasticity the visual system is capable of.

      We thank the reviewer for their comment and have added a new paragraph discussing this topic.

      Discussion:

      “Our findings on hierarchical adaptation have broader implications for other visual disorders, depending on their timing and nature. For instance, a central scotoma acquired in adulthood, as in macular degeneration, may not trigger the same V3 sampling shifts (Haak et al., 2016), suggesting a sensitive window for this form of plasticity, after which connective fields remain more stable. This also raises questions about congenital blindness, where the absence of any driving input could lead to weakening or repurposing of hierarchical connections (Saccone et al., 2024). Moreover, principles may differ between a deprived but structurally intact cortex, as in retinal dystrophies, and a physically damaged cortex, as in stroke. In the latter, more extensive reorganisation may be required to sample effectively from surviving, and potentially disparate, regions of V1. Perceptual training effects in stroke rehabilitation may reflect such dynamics (Cavanaugh et al., 2025; Elshout et al., 2021).”

      A more minor point: Can the authors clarify what the dark adaptation is used for, and provide the supplementary analysis showing that the duration difference for some of the participants didn't impact the results (stated but not shown).

      The dark adaptation period before the rod-selective condition allowed rod photoreceptors to recover from bleaching caused by prior mesopic light exposure, ensuring optimal rod sensitivity under scotopic conditions. To verify that our 15-minute adaptation period was sufficient, we tested 10 control participants with an extended 45-minute adaptation period. As we found no differences in the resulting rod maps between standard and extended adaptation protocols, these participants were combined with the main control group for all analyses. Author response image 5 are the plots for the two dark adaptation periods.

      Author response image 5.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      We are happy to read that this reviewer considers the proposed behavioral architecture ‘a significant step forward in the field’, and that she/he recognizes the strengths of our work in the modular and hierarchical approach that provides connections to influential theories of motor control in the brain, in the experimental evidence it is based on, and in the valuable abstractions that we have chosen for the larval behavioral modeling.

      The reviewer raises important points about the simplifications we have made, both conceptually and in the specific implementation of larval behaviors. Our main goal in this study is to introduce a conceptual framework that integrates agent-based modeling with systems neuroscience models in a modular fashion. To serve this purpose, we aimed for a minimal yet representative implementation at the motor layer of the architecture, calibrated to larval locomotion kinematics. This choice enables efficient simulation while allowing us to test top-down modulation and adaptive mechanisms in higher layers without the computational overhead of a full neuromechanical model. In addition to chemotaxis, we have recently used this simplified approach to model thermotaxis in larvae (Kafle et al., 2025, iScience, DOI: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.isci.2025.112809).

      The reviewer notes the absence of explicit segmental neuromuscular control or central pattern generators (CPGs). We deliberately abstracted from these mechanisms, representing the larval body as two segments with basic kinematic control, to focus on reproducing overall locomotor patterns. This bisegmental simplification, which we illustrate in Supplemental Video “Bisegmental larva-body simplification”, retains the behavioral features relevant to our current aims. However, the modular structure of the framework means that more detailed neuromechanical models—incorporating CPG dynamics or connectome-derived circuit models—can be integrated in future work without altering the architecture as a whole.

      We fully agree that real neural circuits are more complex than a strict subsumption architecture implies. In the Drosophila larva, there is clear evidence for ascending sensory feedback from the motor periphery to premotor and higher brain circuits, as well as neuromodulatory influences. These add layers of complexity beyond the predominantly descending control in our present model. At the same time, both larval and adult connectome data show that across-level descending and ascending connections are sparse compared to the dense within-layer connectivity. We see value in casting our model as a hierarchical control system precisely to make the strengths and limitations of such an abstraction explicit. The revised manuscript will include further discussion of these points.

      In summary, our design choices reflect a trade-off: by limiting the biological detail in the lower layers, we gain computational efficiency and maintain a clear modular structure that can host models at different levels of abstraction. This ensures that the architecture remains both a tool for immediate behavioral simulation and a scaffold for integrating richer neural and biomechanical models as they become available.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      We thank the reviewer for recognizing the novelty of our locomotory model, particularly the implementation of peristaltic strides based on our new analyses of empirical larval tracks, and for providing constructive feedback that will help us improve the manuscript.

      The reviewer highlights the need for clearer explanations of the chemotaxis and odor preference modules. We expand these sections in the revised manuscript with more explicit descriptions of model structure, parameterization, and calibration. As mentioned above, we have also prepared a separate preprint dedicated to the larvaworld Python package, which contains detailed implementation notes and hands-on tutorials that allow users to adapt or extend individual modules.

      Regarding the comparison to empirical behavior in chemotaxis, our present analysis is indeed primarily qualitative. However, we would like to emphasize that the temporal profile of odor concentration at the larval head in our simulations matches that measured in Gomez-Marin et al. (Nature Comm., 2011, DOI: https://doi.org/10.1038/ncomms1455) using only one additional free parameter, while all parameters of the basic locomotory model had been fitted to a separate exploration dataset before and were kept fixed in the chemotaxis experiments. In addition to the simulation of chemotaxis in the present paper, we recently used larvaworld in a practical model application to estimate a species-specific parameter of thermotaxis from experiments across different drosophilids (Kafle et al., 2025, iScience, DOI: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.isci.2025.112809).

      The preference index in our simulations was computed using the same definition as in the established experimental group assay for larval memory retention, enabling a direct quantitative comparison between simulated and empirical results. Variability in the simulated outcomes arose naturally from inter-individual differences in body length and locomotory parameters, derived from real larval measurements, as well as from the random initial orientation of each individual in the arena. These factors contributed to variation in individual tracks and ultimately produced preference index values that closely matched those observed experimentally. In the revised manuscript, we also discuss handedness, as highlighted by the reviewer, as another meaningful expression of inter-individual variability in Drosophila larvae and insects more generally.

      Finally, we acknowledge the reviewer’s concern about the scalability and broader applicability of the model. While the present paper focuses on three specific behavioral paradigms (exploration, chemotaxis, odor preference), the modular structure of the architecture is designed for flexibility: modules at any layer can be exchanged for more detailed or alternative implementations, and new sensory modalities or behaviors can be integrated without redesigning the system. The larvaworld package, associated codebase, and documentation are openly available to encourage adoption and adaptation by the larval research community.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      This public review provides an excellent account of our central aim to build an easily configurable, well-documented platform for organism-scale behavioral simulation and we are happy to read that the reviewer considers this an excellent goal.

      We thank the reviewer for her/his account of our well-organized code using contemporary Python tooling. We are currently further improving code readability and code documentation, and we will release a new version of the larvaworld Python package. We further agree with the reviewer’s assessment that understanding the model calibration currently requires reading of the appendix. For the revised manuscript we thus aim at improving our description of all calibration and modeling steps along the way. We will also make sure to improve the description of the experimental datasets used for calibration.

      We recognize that our description of the paper’s scientific contribution could be clearer. In revision, we will sharpen the Introduction and Discussion to highlight our main contributions:

      (1) Promoting a shift from isolated neural circuit modeling to integrated agent-based simulations in realistic environments.

      (2) Proposing the layered behavioral architecture, adopting the subsumption paradigm for modular integration.

      (3) Providing the larvaworld software as a ready-to-use, extensible modeling platform.

      (4) Implementing an empirically calibrated locomotory model and demonstrating its integration with navigation and learning modules in replicated behavioral paradigms.

      We agree with the reviewer that the next challenge is to integrate the empirically based behavioral simulations presented here with functional brain models capable of reproducing or predicting experimental findings at the level of cellular neurophysiology, including the effects of cell-type-specific manipulations such as gene knock-down or optogenetic activation/inhibition. However, based on our experience with systems-level modeling, we deliberately invested in behavioral simulation because functional models of the nervous system—including our own—often lack translation into simulated agent behavior. In many cases, model output is limited to one or more variables that can at best be interpreted as a behavioral bias, and most often represents an “average animal” that fails to capture inter-individual differences. By linking our spiking mushroom body model to behavioral simulations in a group of individual agents during memory retention tests (Figure 6C,D), we were able to achieve a first successful direct comparison between simulated and experimental behavior metrics—in this case, the behavioral preference index reported in Jürgensen et al. (iScience, 2024, DOI:

      https://doi.org/10.1016/j.isci.2023.108640).

      Finally, we reiterate that the layered behavioral architecture is designed to promote a modular modeling paradigm. Our adoption of a subsumption architecture does not conflict with the concept of behavioral primitives; on the contrary, the notion that such primitives follow (semi-)autonomous motor programs and can be combined into more complex behaviors was the starting point for our implementation of the architecture in the fly larva. In our view, a genuinely contradictory paradigm for neural control of behavior would require a non-modular, strictly non-hierarchical organization of the nervous system and, by extension, of behavioral control.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      See public review for main points. To summarize, I find the conceptual framework of the paper very valuable and an important advance. However, in this age of data, I would have expected that the authors would make an effort to build more realistic models that could relate directly to neural data (including connectome and activity) and muscular dynamics at the segmental level.

      This point is addressed in detail in our public review response. In brief, we agree that a segmental neuromechanical model informed by connectome data would provide richer mechanistic insight. However, such an approach would greatly increase complexity and reduce accessibility. Our aim here is to present a coarse-grained, kinematic-level framework that is modular, extensible, and designed to accommodate models at different levels of abstraction. Importantly, extensions that incorporate realistic neuromechanics or connectome-derived circuits can be readily integrated, provided they conform to the modular principles of the proposed behavioral architecture.

      The authors do not cite figures in order or appearance, which makes it hard to read.

      This has been corrected. Figures are now cited in the correct order throughout the revised manuscript.

      I would explain the model in more detail in the main text. Currently, the model is introduced through Figure 1 in an abstract way. It is really hard to make the connection between this figure to the nuts-and-bolts of neuromechanics. And, I believe, for this paper, the details of the modeling matter and are not just technical points to be hidden in the appendix. The video (video 1) is not helpful.

      We have restructured the Model section to provide more detail directly in the main text, moving explanations that were previously confined to the Appendix. This includes explicit description of the locomotory oscillator model, the intermittency module, and their empirical calibration. At the same time, we retained mathematical and implementation details in Materials & Methods to keep the reading flow accessible. Additionally, we expanded the caption of Video 1 and clarified in the text what it illustrates, making the video more informative.

      Modeling choices lead to further weaknesses. While the model can replicate observed locomotory patterns, it does not fully explain the underlying neurobiological mechanisms that govern behavioral intermittency. For example, the crawl-bend interference mechanism, while capturing observed phase-dependent attenuation of turning, is implemented in a simplified, statistical manner rather than being derived from detailed neuromuscular dynamics. The intermittent locomotion model, which generates alternating runs and pauses, relies on log-normal distributed stridechains but does not explicitly model neural mechanisms responsible for switching between movement states.

      We agree with this point. A fully mechanistic implementation of crawl-bend interference would require a detailed segmental neuromechanical model, which we deliberately refrained from integrating in order to keep the current study tractable and focused on a coarse-grained, kinematic-level description. Likewise, the intermittency module is currently based on data-fitted distributions of stridechains and pause durations, without explicit modeling of the neural mechanisms responsible for switching between these states. To our knowledge, these mechanisms remain unresolved, though alternative approaches have been suggested, for example, an artificial neural network model of intermittency (Sakagiannis et al., 2020). To ensure this limitation is transparent to the reader, we now explicitly state it in a newly added “Limitations of the study” subsection in the Discussion.

      We also highlight that the behavioral architecture is designed to be extensible, so that future work may incorporate such mechanistic models when available, while preserving the modular framework.

      I am curious about why the authors chose to model the mushroom body with much more realism than other modules.

      We clarified that this choice was not due to a bias in modeling depth, but to demonstrate the modularity and flexibility of the architecture. The mushroom body (MB) model we integrated was developed in our previous work as a biologically realistic spiking neural network. By incorporating it into the current framework, we show that models of very different abstraction levels – from simple statistical oscillators to detailed spiking networks – can coexist and interact under the same architecture. This rationale is now explicitly stated in the Discussion.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The manuscript from Sakagiannis et al. proposes a novel model for locomotion and foraging in Drosophila. Their ambition is to make a unified model that will incorporate distinct layers of complexity to describe and predict the locomotor behaviour of a larva, during exploration, chemotaxis and even learning. The paper fails in doing so, starting with a rather interesting exploratory model and becoming less and less convincing as it progresses, with thinner (chemotaxis) and thinner (learning) experimental and theoretical support. The model for chemotaxis is extremely simplified compared to the work of other laboratories. The associative learning paradigm is taken from another paper from the same research group and is not sufficiently explained. In its current form, the paper is of very limited theoretical and practical value. The analysis is insufficient to judge the overall quality and scalability of the model. It is hard to know if the model could be adopted by others in the larval community more widely in other animals. Would it be flexible and robust enough to be used to model other behavioural conditions?

      We appreciate this critical perspective. Our aim is not to present a final, fully parameterized model of all larval behaviors, but to introduce a flexible, modular behavioral architecture that integrates models at different levels of abstraction and can be expanded by the community. To support adoption, we have revised the manuscript to highlight the availability of the framework as a Python package (larvaworld), supplemented with documentation, tutorials, and code examples. This makes it easier for other researchers to reuse, extend, and test the architecture under additional behavioral conditions. We also explicitly refer to modeling studies that have adopted the proposed framework and the locomotory model itself.

      Below, we address the reviewer’s points layer by layer.

      (1) Exploratory behaviour. The strongest part of the paper. The authors propose a new method to analyse locomotion. They take into consideration the instantaneous linear and angular velocity. They assume the existence of two oscillators, which is really interesting. They incorporate the distribution of pauses duration and number of the strides. The incorporation of the strides is very exciting. They do not include handedness with has already been studied and incorporated in a mode for exploration they seem to have missed (Wosniack et al 2022). Figure 4 shows the dispersion. At first glance, it is very obvious that the model larvae do not behave like the animal. The distance they move from the centre is wider (Figure 4A). What is measured in dispersion (Figure 4B)? Just the distance travelled during 40s? A better measure of the similarities or differences between the model and real larvae would be interesting, such as analysing the Mean Square Displacement. Would the model be good if compared to the long-term exploratory behaviour from Sims et al. 2020, that the author previously used?

      The authors should convince the readers that their model is better, or at least as good than the ones already available.

      We thank the reviewer for these constructive suggestions. In the revised manuscript we now reference and discuss handedness, citing Wosniack et al. (2022, eLife), and highlight its potential role as an additional axis of individual variability. We also clarified the distance metrics used in Figure 4: dispersal denotes the Euclidean distance from the origin at the end of the trajectory, while pathlength denotes the cumulative distance travelled. Since larvae typically encounter the arena boundary within the first 40 seconds of exploration, dispersal is shown only over this interval.

      With respect to the reviewer’s suggestion of using mean-squared displacement (MSD), we now explicitly describe the relation between dispersal and MSD. Dispersal is an individual-level displacement measure from which population-level metrics such as MSD can be directly derived.

      Regarding long-term exploration, we agree that extended trajectories—as reported by Sims et al. (2020) over timescales of up to one hour—constitute a valuable complementary regime. Our experimental dataset is limited to 3-minute recordings in a bounded Petri dish, which constrains the accessible timescales of dispersal analysis. We now explicitly note in the Results that comparison to long-horizon datasets such as Sims et al. (2020) represents an important future direction that will require larger or unbounded arenas.

      Together, these revisions strengthen the presentation of the exploration results and clarify how our model relates to established statistical measures of larval foraging behaviour.

      (2) Chemotaxis. The chemotaxis model is so briefly explained in the result section that it is hard to understand. A modulation of the frequency and amplitude of lateral oscillator as a function of the concentration? The authors cannot differentiate between weathervaning and turning in this model (at least I can't understand how). What happened with the distribution of pauses and the directions of turns in Figure 5? The authors do not use real behavioural data to contract their model. How do we know that the parameters they have used reflect the larval behaviour? For example: what is the success rate for larvae to reach the area of high concentration? How close do they get? What is the length of the tracks from start to a target area of high concentration? Where are the calibration data for chemotaxis? This information is critical to understand the model, it needs to be shown in the result section. The authors mention an 8.9uM peak concentration. Of what?

      The model is oversimplified in comparison with Davies et al. 2015 and it is not clear at all how it reflects the real chemotaxis, which is a rather complex behaviour.

      We thank the reviewer for these detailed comments. In the revised manuscript we substantially expanded the description of the chemotaxis model. We now provide an explicit mathematical formulation of how odor concentration modulates the lateral oscillator through the quantity A<sub>0</sub>, which perturbs both the frequency and amplitude of bending according to the mechanism proposed by Wystrach et al. (2016). We additionally clarify that the motor layer - including the intermittency module and all parameters governing crawling, pausing, and turning - remains fully identical to the configuration calibrated on the exploration dataset; no refitting was performed for the chemotaxis condition.

      To address the reviewer’s question regarding the distinction between weathervaning and head casting, we now explain that both behaviours emerge naturally from the same coupled-oscillator structure via stride-phase–dependent crawl–bend interference. High-amplitude headcasts occur during pauses when crawl-induced attenuation is lifted, whereas low-amplitude weathervaning arises during runs when the interference is active.

      This unified mechanism eliminates the need for separate modules.

      The chemotaxis experiments were implemented to qualitatively replicate the behavioural patterns described in Gómez-Marín et al. (2011, Fig. 1A–1F), and we now include explicit figure references in the captions. Because the present implementation is a proof of concept rather than a quantitatively calibrated chemotaxis model, we do not report success rates, approach distances, or track-length statistics, as these depend strongly on odorscape geometry and calibration against quantitative single-animal datasets that were not available for the current work. This clarification has been added to the text and is stated explicitly again in the Limitations section.

      Finally, we now specify that the reported odor concentrations (e.g. 8.9,µM) follow the values used in Gómez-Marín et al. (2011), and we added the precise Gaussian function used to generate the odorscape in the Materials & Methods. Together, these revisions provide a clear and transparent account of the chemotaxis model and its scope.

      (3) Associative learning paradigm. I assume that the authors intended to incorporate a bias in chemotaxis behaviour towards a particular odorant (CS) that would have been associated with a reward food (US). However the model works slightly differently, it is represented by an aversive and an appetitive gradient.

      Theoretically, this is already an assumption (unless there is evidence for it, that should be referenced). It would be more conservative to have one neutral side and one appetitive (attractive) side. Second, the use of a mushroom body model, (even though it has already been published) to decide on the valence adds a layer of complexity that seems unnecessary. The learning process is different from the output process. Finally, the model intends to show us a "realist simulation of Drosophila locomotion" and we do not know how the larvae reach the right side during the test. It would be useful to have some comparison of the larval and model behaviour towards the preferred side.

      In this last section, the objective of the research unweaves and falls short of its ambition.

      We thank the reviewer for these helpful comments. In the revised manuscript we clarified that our implementation follows the standard larval conditioning protocol in which a rewarded odor (CS+) is tested against a neutral odor, not against an aversive one. The previously contradictory phrasing has been corrected, and the text now consistently reflects the established experimental procedure.

      We further explain that the mushroom body (MB) model is included not in order to increase biological complexity in this section, but to demonstrate the flexibility of the proposed behavioral architecture: detailed circuit models and more abstract motor modules can coexist under the same framework. The MB model implements associative plasticity independently of any behavioral simulation, and its output - a scalar odor valence - is transformed linearly into an odor-gain parameter that modulates turning during the test phase. This separation between learning and behavioral output mirrors the logic of the biological system while keeping the overall architecture modular.

      Regarding the reviewer’s request for insight into “how larvae reach the right side,” we note that standard group assays used in larval olfactory learning provide only population-level preference indices rather than detailed individual trajectories. Our comparison to empirical data therefore relies on these established preference indices, which the model successfully reproduces across training trials, including the characteristic saturation reported in Jürgensen et al. (2024). We now state explicitly that although the behavioral simulation does generate full trajectories for each virtual larva, the lack of corresponding experimental single-animal tracks precludes a direct trajectory-level comparison. This clarification has been added to the revised text.

      Together, we believe that these revisions improve clarity and better situate the learning simulations within both the behavioral architecture framework and the constraints of available experimental data.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Figure 1a is very dense and I am struggling with the terms "reactive" and "basic" due to a general lack of clarity about the details of the model organization. For example, why do all of the sensory inputs point to turning proprioception? Why is proprioception two different things for turning and crawling? Why are some senses in light green while olfaction is in dark green? Why is feedback only from feeding, when crawling, head casting, and turning will change the sensory environment as well? Why is head casting not a behavioral module here? Why focus on following/being constrained by the "subsumption architecture paradigm" over a focus on the known literature and neuroanatomy?

      We thank the reviewer for this careful inspection of Figure 1. In the revised version we improved both the figure and its caption, as well as the corresponding description in the text.

      Specifically:

      - The “basic” layer has been renamed the “motor” layer for clarity, and the caption has been expanded to better describe each component.

      - The sensory inputs are now shown to target the motor layer as a whole, rather than just the proprioceptive component of turning.

      - Each motor module is conceptualized as a sensorimotor loop (green-red), which explains why proprioception appears in both crawling and turning.

      - The color coding has also been clarified: modules used in the current simulations are shown in darker shades, while others are faded.

      - Sensory perturbations caused by body locomotion – as in the case of crawling and turning – are not depicted in the figure as feedback between modules. We make this more explicit in the caption. The signal from feeding to the above layers is neuromodulatory – as indicated by the purple arrowhead.

      Finally, we explain that head casting and weathervaning are not modeled as separate modules, since both behaviors emerge from the coupled oscillator mechanism through crawl-bend interference. Our adherence to the subsumption architecture paradigm is motivated by its success in robotics and its conceptual alignment with hierarchical sensorimotor loops, but we have now made clearer that this is a simplifying framework rather than a rigid constraint.

      "Stimulus free conditions" (line 102) don't really exist. Substrate and temperature will always be present, light will have some intensity, etc. Does this really refer to fictive behaviors?

      We thank the reviewer for raising this point. In the revised manuscript we have removed the term “stimulus-free conditions” entirely to avoid the misleading implication that larvae experience no sensory input. We now explicitly describe these experiments as free exploration in the absence of navigation-guiding gradients, which accurately reflects the laboratory assay while avoiding any suggestion of fictive behavior. This terminology has been updated consistently throughout the text.

      The first results section is closer to an introduction than the intro itself is, owing to its focus on the context of the work the paper actually does rather than a broad review of larval behaviors that are not considered within this work.

      We believe the reviewer is referring to the “Model” section rather than the “Results.” The Model section is deliberately separated to outline the theoretical background of the behavioral architecture and to make explicit the general modeling assumptions, which explains why it cites previous work in detail. By contrast, the Introduction is intended as a brief overview of the broader larval behavioral repertoire, since the larva serves here as the case study for our framework. Presenting this repertoire is important because it defines the behaviors that populate the different layers of the architecture, even if only a subset of them is implemented in the simulations presented in this study.

      While the model components are described in the modeling section, no question is actually discussed. What is the goal of this model?

      This broader question is addressed in the public review section

      "Crawler" and "turner" are inconsistently described. They are described as "modules" in Figure 1, but they seem more like behavioral primitives.

      The specific terms "crawler" and "turner" refer to the computational modules, but correctly the reviewer points out that these generate the respective “crawling” and “turning” behavioral primitives. This has been made explicit in the Materials & Methods.

      Do larva-larva interactions matter here?

      In the revised manuscript we now state explicitly that larva–larva interactions are not included in the present simulations, as each virtual larva is modeled independently in accordance with the single-animal datasets used for calibration. We also point the reader to the Limitations section, where we note that although social interactions lie outside the scope of this study, the Larvaworld software package already supports tactile sensing and collision handling, enabling such interactions to be incorporated in future work.

      The description of the locomotor system, with coupled oscillators between crawling frequency and bending is very empirical. Is this because of the 2-segment model effectively limiting peristalsis to a single segment? What are the limits of this approach?

      The stride-phase–dependent modulation of bending amplitude was identified through kinematic analysis of full 12-segment larval datasets and is therefore independent of our later decision to implement a two-segment simplification. This means that the empirical relationship we describe should hold for any multisegment model, regardless of the reduced representation used in the present implementation. Generally, we performed our detailed empirical analyses with the goal to uncover statistical relations, which in turn were use for our data-driven coupled oscillator model in combination with the stochastic element of stride-chain and pause duration.

      Line 190: The paper starts discussing experimental larva tracks. These experiments need to be described.

      The reviewer probably refers to the dataset analysed in this study. This is a public dataset as described in the Dataset Description section in Materials & Methods, along with a description of the experiment per se.

      The purpose of Figure 2 is not entirely clear. Several panels are not referenced in the text (F,G,H) and all panels are referenced extremely out of order. Figure 3 is similarly hard to follow for the same reasons of being referenced out of order. In fact, this section is largely duplicated by the "Model calibration" appendix, which I find to be much more clearly written and with more directly relevant figure panels.

      In the revised manuscript, all panels of Figures 2 and 3 are now cited in the correct order, and their roles in the narrative have been clarified. Figure 2 is explicitly presented as a summary of the empirical kinematic analyses that motivate the structure of the locomotory model, while Figure 3 illustrates the corresponding model components. To avoid redundancy with the “Model calibration” appendix, we streamlined the main text and replaced duplicated descriptions with cross-references to the appendix, which contains the full methodological detail.

      The data describe larvae behaving with a range of parameters, presumably both as individuals and across time. However, the models described seem to employ a population of larvae that shares a common best-fit parameter and the equations presented in the methods are all ordinary differential equations without noise or stochasticity. Where is the inter-individual variation coming from?

      The reviewer is correct to point out the importance of variability. Our approach is agent-based, and we model populations of non-identical individuals rather than replicates of a single average larva. The simulated larvae retain variability across several parameters, capturing the combined range observed in the data. This was described in the original manuscript, and to avoid possible misunderstandings, we have now expanded the “Inter-individual variability” section in the Materials & Methods and, where appropriate, clarified this point elsewhere in the text.

      The absolute orientation of trajectories in Figure 4A is not meaningful in your model. I suspect it would be more informative to show aligned trajectories in order to better visually assess the behavioral similarity. Also, the biological experiment needs to be described here. Time crawling seems to not be a great fit, although the peaks are fairly well aligned. Do you have thoughts on why this is?

      In Figure 4A, which is intended as a visual comparison between experimental and simulated trajectories, the experimental tracks were transposed so that all starting points coincide at the center of the arena. As the reviewer notes, they were not rotated to a common axis, since our subsequent analysis focuses on spatial dispersal rather than directional alignment. The description of the experimental dataset has been clarified in the revised text.

      The reviewer is also correct that the distribution of time spent crawling is narrower in the simulations than in the experimental data. This reflects the fact that in the present study only three crawling-related parameters were sampled to generate inter-individual variability, and time spent crawling was not among them. We deliberately chose to assess how well the model reproduces distributions for behavioral metrics that were not explicitly fitted or parameterized. This point has now been made explicit in the revised manuscript.

      How did you assess the agreement of chemotaxis results with Gomez-Martin et al? It would be useful for the comparison to be made explicit within this paper, as well. How were the chemotaxis parameters fit?

      The agreement between experimental and simulated chemotaxis was assessed only qualitatively, as we did not perform quantitative locomotor analyses on chemotaxis datasets. For these simulations we used the same motor layer, including all its modules, as calibrated in the free-exploration condition (Fig. 4). The only additional adjustment was a single weighting parameter that translates the appetitive or aversive valence of odor sources into modulatory input for the bending module. This parameter was tuned manually using a visual criterion of performance, to ensure that both attractive and aversive chemotaxis were observable. We now make explicit in the text that for more complex simulations we retain the calibration obtained in simpler conditions and build upon it, rather than re-optimizing the model. Moreover, we now provide reference to the exact figure numbers in Gomez-Martin et al. for direct visual comparison also of the perceived concentration metrics in our Figure 5E&F where experimental and simulated data show a very good correspondence.

      Similarly, what are the key parameters for the mushroom body model and how did you fit their relationship to behavior? Was there actually feedback between the behavior of the larva and the training or was the SNN only used to generate the odor gain constant?

      The reviewer is correct to highlight this point. In the present study the mushroom body model was simulated independently to generate the odor-specific behavioral bias. This output was then translated into an odor gain constant, which served as input for the subsequent behavioral simulations of odor preference. There was no closed-loop interaction between the larval behavior and the training of the spiking network in this version. Establishing such a closed-loop connection is part of our future goals.

      It is unclear where feeding (as introduced in Figure 1) entered into the work presented, if at all.

      The reviewer is correct that the feeding module does not play a role in the present study. It was included in the behavioral architecture for completeness and because it is already implemented in the larvaworld package (see Sakagiannis et al., 2024). We have clarified this in the revised text.

      "During pauses, the input to the crawler module I_c = 0 and therefore forward..." The equations presented for the crawler module do not contain I_c.

      The inconsistency regarding the crawler module input has also been corrected. The equations now explicitly include the tonic input parameter, making them consistent with the descriptive text and our model implementation.

      Larva do more than crawl forward, they can also hunch up, head cast with their head in the air, dig, crawl backward, roll, and other behaviors. Because the individual modules in this framework have been defined as coupled oscillators, how would you decide to implement such aspects? At what point does the oscillator approach break down? In this model, how does the larva decide whether to bend left or right, and how is that affected by the environment or internal state? Can a larva bend in the same direction twice in a row?

      The intermittent coupled-oscillator model presented here does not attempt to cover the full larval repertoire, such as hunching, digging, backward crawling, or rolling. Nor does it explicitly implement handedness as a directional bias. Nevertheless, the framework already allows for sequences of repeated turns: from a stationary position a larva can execute successive bends of varying amplitude, which may occur in the same direction, mimicking repeated head casts to one side.

      Extending the model to include additional locomotor primitives would require the development of new modules, which could expand the basic locomotor layer either alongside or in place of the current lateral oscillator module. As noted in the manuscript, the modules implemented here are not intended as definitive but as placeholders that demonstrate how the architecture can integrate more elaborate models in the future. In this context, future directions include introducing handedness as part of inter-individual variability and enriching the behavioral repertoire with additional modules to capture the broader range of larval actions.

      I was not able to install `larvaworld` either through pip in a fresh environment on OS X 15 and various Python versions between 3.8 and 3.12. I ran into a range of issues, from `tables` (which is understandable) to issues installing the old NumPy in Python 3.12 where `setuptools` is no longer included. The packaging should be made more robust, or the working environment could be better defined. For example, the version pinning of dependencies seems much more strict than I would expect for a user-focused Python library, particularly with out-of-date versions of core tools like NumPy.

      We thank the reviewer for going to length and testing the implementation and pointing these issues to us. We have recently updated the package (version 2.0.1, November 2025) to improve installation robustness, relaxed unnecessary dependency pinning, and provided an environment specification to facilitate reproducibility. The revised manuscript directs users to recently updated installation instructions.

      Automated testing for python versions 3.10-3.11 for MacOS, Windows and Ubuntu is already implemented. Unfortunately we have not yet tried it on OS X15. Please post any issues on the larvaworld’s github page : https://github.com/nawrotlab/larvaworld.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors describe the results of a single study designed to investigate the extent to which horizontal orientation energy plays a key role in supporting view-invariant face recognition. The authors collected behavioral data from adult observers who were asked to complete an old/new face matching task by learning broad-spectrum faces (not orientation filtered) during a familiarization phase and subsequently trying to label filtered faces as previously seen or novel at test. This data revealed a clear bias favoring the use of horizontal orientation energy across viewpoint changes in the target images. The authors then compared different ideal observer models (cross-correlations between target and probe stimuli) to examine how this profile might be reflected in the image-level appearance of their filtered images. This revealed that a model looking for the best matching face within a viewpoint differed substantially from human data, exhibiting a vertical orientation bias for extreme profiles. However, a model forced to match targets to probes at different viewing angles exhibited a consistent horizontal bias in much the same manner as human observers.

      Strengths:

      I think the question is an important one: The horizontal orientation bias is a great example of a low-level image property being linked to high-level recognition outcomes, and understanding the nature of that connection is important. I found the old/new task to be a straightforward task that was implemented ably and that has the benefit of being simple for participants to carry out and simple to analyze. I particularly appreciated that the authors chose to describe human data via a lower-dimensional model (their Gaussian fits to individual data) for further analysis. This was a nice way to express the nature of the tuning function, favoring horizontal orientation bias in a way that makes key parameters explicit. Broadly speaking, I also thought that the model comparison they include between the view-selective and view-tolerant models was a great next step. This analysis has the potential to reveal some good insights into how this bias emerges and ask fine-grained questions about the parameters in their model fits to the behavioral data.

      Weaknesses:

      I will start with what I think is the biggest difficulty I had with the paper. Much as I liked the model comparison analysis, I also don't quite know what to make of the view-tolerant model. As I understand the authors' description, the key feature of this model is that it does not get to compare the target and probe at the same yaw angle, but must instead pick a best match from candidates that are at different yaws. While it is interesting to see that this leads to a very different orientation profile, it also isn't obvious to me why such a comparison would be reflective of what the visual system is probably doing. I can see that the view-specific model is more or less assuming something like an exemplar representation of each face: You have the opportunity to compare a new image to a whole library of viewpoints, and presumably it isn't hard to start with some kind of first pass that identifies the best matching view first before trying to identify/match the individual in question. What I don't get about the view-tolerant model is that it seems almost like an anti-exemplar model: You specifically lack the best viewpoint in the library but have to make do with the other options. Again, this is sort of interesting and the very different behavior of the model is neat to discuss, but it doesn't seem easy to align with any theoretical perspective on face recognition. My thinking here is that it might be useful to consider an additional alternate model that doesn't specifically exclude the best-matching viewpoint, but perhaps condenses appearance across views into something like a prototype. I could even see an argument for something like the yaw-averages presented earlier in the manuscript as the basis for such a model, but this might be too much of a stretch. Overall, what I'd like to see is some kind of alternate model that incorporates the existence of the best-match viewpoint somehow, but without the explicit exemplar structure of the view-specific model.

      The design of the view-tolerant model aligned with the requirements of tolerant recognition and revealed the stimulus information enabling to abstract identity away from variations in face appearance. However, it did not involve the notion that such ability may depend on a prototype or summary representation of face identity built up through varied encounters (Burton, Jenkins and Schweinberger 2011, Jenkins, White et al. 2011, Mike Burton 2013, Burton, Kramer et al. 2016, Menon, Kemp and White 2018).

      We agree with the Reviewer that the average of the different views of a face is a good proxy of its central tendency (i.e., stable identity properties; Figure 1). We thus followed their suggestion and included an additional model observer that compared specific views to full-spectrum view-averaged identities. The examination of the orientation tuning profile of this so-called view-average model observer confirmed the crucial contribution of horizontal identity cues to view-invariant recognition as the horizontal range best predicted the average summary of full-spectrum face appearances across views. This additional model observer is now presented in the Discussion and Supplementary files 2 and 3.

      Besides this larger issue, I would also like to see some more details about the nature of the cross-correlation that is the basis for this model comparison. I mostly think I get what is happening, but I think the authors could expand more on the nature of their noise model to make more explicit what is happening before these cross-correlations are taken. I infer that there is a noise-addition step to get them off the ceiling, but I felt that I had to read between the lines a bit to determine this.

      In the Methods section, we now provide detailed information about the addition of noise to model observer cross-correlations: ‘In a pilot phase, we measured the overall identification performance of each model. Initially, the view-selective model performed at ceiling, yielding a correlation of 1 since there was an exact target-probe match across all trials. To avoid ceiling effects and to keep model performance close to human levels (Supplementary File 2), we thus decreased the signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) of the target and probe images to .125 by combining each with distinct noise patterns (face RMS contrast: .01; noise RMS contrast: .08). Each trial (i.e. target-probe pairing) was iterated ten times with different random noise patterns.’

      We also added a supplemental with the graphic illustration of the d’ distributions of each model and human observers: ‘Sensitivity d’ of the view-tolerant model was much lower than view-selective model and human sensitivity (Supplementary File 2), even without noise. The view-tolerant model therefore processed fully visible stimuli (SNR of 1). This decreased sensitivity in the view-tolerant compared to the view-selective model is expected, as none of the probes exactly matched the target at the pixel level due to viewpoint differences. In contrast to humans who rely on internally stored representations to match identity across views, the model observer lacks such internal representations and entirely relies on (less efficient) pixelwise comparisons.’

      Another thing that I think is worth considering and commenting on is the stimuli themselves and the extent to which this may limit the outcomes of their behavioral task. The use of the 3D laser-scanned faces has some obvious advantages, but also (I think) removes the possibility for pigmentation to contribute to recognition, removes the contribution of varying illumination and expression to appearance variability, and perhaps presents observers with more homogeneous faces than one typically has to worry about. I don't think these negate the current results, but I'd like the authors to expand on their discussion of these factors, particularly pigmentation. Naively, surface color and texture seem like they could offer diagnostic cues to identity that don't rely so critically on horizontal orientations, so removing these may mean that horizontal bias is particularly evident when face shape is the critical cue for recognition.

      Our stimuli were originally designed by Troje and Bulthoff (1996). These are 3D laser scans of white individuals aged between 20 and 40 years, posing with a neutral expression. Different views of the faces were shot under a fixed illumination. Ears and a small portion of the neck were visible while the hair region was removed. All face images had a normalized skin color and we further converted them to grayscales

      While we agree that this stimulus set offers a restricted range of within- and between-identity variations compared to what is experienced in natural settings, we believe that the present findings generalize to more ecological viewing conditions. Indeed, past evidence showed that the recognition of face pictures shot under largely variable pose, age, expression, illumination, hair style is tuned to the horizontal range of the face stimulus (Dakin and Watt 2009, Dumont, Roux-Sibilon and Goffaux 2024). In other words, our finding that view-tolerant identity recognition is mainly driven by horizontal face information would likely replicate with the use of a more ecological stimulus set.

      Moreover, the skin color normalization and grayscale conversion, while limiting the range of face variability, did not eliminate the contribution of surface pigmentation in our study. It is thus unlikely that our findings exclusively reflect the orientation dependence of face shape processing. Pigmentation refers to all surface reflectance properties (Russell, Sinha et al. 2006) and hue (color) is only one among others. The grayscaled 3D laser scanned faces used here contained natural variations in crucial surface cues such as skin albedo (i.e., how light or dark the surface appears) and texture (i.e., spatial variation in how light is reflected); they have actually been used to disentangle the role of shape and surface cues to identity recognition (e.g., Troje and Bulthoff 1996, Vuong, Peissig et al. 2005, Russell, Sinha et al. 2006, Russell, Biederman et al. 2007, Jiang, Dricot et al. 2009). Moreover, a past study of ours demonstrated that the diagnosticity of the horizontal range of face information is not restricted to face shape cues; the specialized processing of face shape and surface both selectively rely on horizontal information (Dumont, Roux-Sibilon and Goffaux 2024).

      For these reasons, the present findings are unlikely to be fully determined by shape processing, and we expect them to generalize to more ecological stimulus sets. We discuss these aspects in the revised manuscript.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      This study investigates the visual information that is used for the recognition of faces. This is an important question in vision research and is critical for social interactions more generally. The authors ask whether our ability to recognise faces, across different viewpoints, varies as a function of the orientation information available in the image. Consistent with previous findings from this group and others, they find that horizontally filtered faces were recognised better than vertically filtered faces. Next, they probe the mechanism underlying this pattern of data by designing two model observers. The first was optimised for faces at a specific viewpoint (view-selective). The second was generalised across viewpoints (view-tolerant). In contrast to the human data, the view-specific model shows that the information that is useful for identity judgements varies according to viewpoint. For example, frontal face identities are again optimally discriminated with horizontal orientation information, but profiles are optimally discriminated with more vertical orientation information. These findings show human face recognition is biased toward horizontal orientation information, even though this may be suboptimal for the recognition of profile views of the face.

      One issue in the design of this study was the lowering of the signal-to-noise ratio in the view-selective observer. This decision was taken to avoid ceiling effects. However, it is not clear how this affects the similarity with the human observers.

      In the Methods section, we now provide detailed information about the addition of noise to model observer cross-correlations: ‘In a pilot phase, we measured the overall identification performance of each model. Initially, the view-selective model performed at ceiling, yielding a correlation of 1 since there was an exact target-probe match across all trials. To avoid ceiling effects and to keep model performance close to human levels (Supplementary File 2), we thus decreased the signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) of the target and probe images to .125 by combining each with distinct noise patterns (face RMS contrast: .01; noise RMS contrast: .08). Each trial (i.e. target-probe pairing) was iterated ten times with different random noise patterns.’

      We also added a supplemental with the graphic illustration of the d’ distributions of each model and human observers.

      Another issue is the decision to normalise image energy across orientations and viewpoints. I can see the logic in wanting to control for these effects, but this does reflect natural variation in image properties. So, again, I wonder what the results would look like without this step.

      All stimuli were matched for luminance and contrast. It is crucial to normalize image energy across orientations as natural image energy is disproportionately distributed across orientations (e.g., Hansen, Essock et al. 2003). Images of faces cropped from their background as used here contain most of their energy in the horizontal range (Keil 2008, Keil 2009, Goffaux and Greenwood 2016). If not normalized after orientation filtering, such uneven distribution of energy would boost recognition performance in the horizontal range across views. Normalization was performed across our experimental conditions merely to avoid energy from explaining the influence of viewpoint on the orientation tuning profile.

      We were not aware of any systematic natural variations of energy across face views. To address this, we measured face average energy (i.e., RMS contrast) in the original stimulus set, i.e., before the application of any image processing or manipulation. Background pixels were excluded from these image analyses. Across yaws, we found energy to range between .11 and .14 on a 0 to 1 grayscale. This is moderate compared to the range of energy variations we measured across identities (from .08 to .18). This suggests that variations in energy across viewpoints are moderate compared to variations related to identity. It is unclear whether these observations are specific to our stimulus set or whether they are generalizable to faces we encounter in everyday life. They, however, indicate that RMS contrast did not substantially vary across views in the present study and suggest that RMS normalization is unlikely to have affected the influence of viewpoint on recognition performance.

      In the revised methods section, we explicitly motivate energy normalization: ‘Images of faces cropped from their background as used here contain most of their energy in the horizontal range (Goffaux, 2019; Goffaux & Greenwood, 2016; Keil, 2009). Across yaws, we found face energy to range between .11 and .14 on a 0 to 1 grayscale, which is moderate compared to the range of face energy variations we measured across identities (from .08 to .18). To prevent energy from explaining our results, in all images, the luminance and RMS contrast of the face pixels were fixed to 0.55 and 0.15, respectively, and background pixels were uniformly set to 0.55. The percentage of clipped pixel values (below 0 or above 1) per image did not exceed 3%.’.

      Despite the bias toward horizontal orientations in human observers, there were some differences in the orientation preference at each viewpoint. For example, frontal faces were biased to horizontal (90 degrees), but other viewpoints had biases that were slightly off horizontal (e.g., right profile: 80 degrees, left profile: 100 degrees). This does seem to show that differences in statistical information at different viewpoints (more horizontal information for frontal and more vertical information for profile) do influence human perception. It would be good to reflect on this nuance in the data.

      Indeed, human performance data indicates that while identity recognition remains tuned to horizontal information, horizontal tuning peak shows some variation across viewpoints. We primarily focused on the first aspect because of its direct relevance to our research objective, but also discussed the second aspect: with yaw rotation, certain non-horizontal morphological features such as the jaw line or nose bridge, etc. may increasingly contribute to identity recognition, whereas at frontal or near frontal views, features are mostly horizontally-oriented (e.g., Keil 2008, Keil 2009). In the revised Discussion, we directly relate the modest fluctuations of peak location to yaw differences in face feature appearance.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewing Editor Comments:

      Based on a discussion with the reviewers, we integrated the recommendations and reached a consensus on the eLife assessment. To move from a "solid" to a "compelling/convincing" strength-of-evidence rating, please address the reviewers' comments. Key points are to clarify and test the plausibility of the models (e.g., effects of different noise-addition steps, inclusion/exclusion of specific orientation channels in the view-dependent comparison, and alternative decision criteria), and to address or discuss the limitations of the stimulus set in capturing recognition under more naturalistic scenarios, for example, including texture cues.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I generally found the paper to be very well-written, so I have only a few minor comments here.

      (1) I didn't really follow why the estimation of the Gaussian functions described in the text was preferred over a simpler ML framework. Do these approaches differ that much? I see references to prior studies in which these were applied, so I can certainly go check these out, but I could see value in adding just a bit of text to briefly make the case that this is important.

      Employing a simpler linear framework, i.e. a linear model predicting d’ from the interaction between orientation and viewpoint, would result in an 8 (orientation) * 7 (viewpoint) design that is difficult to analyze. The interaction term would almost certainly reach significance but its interpretation would be limited. We would either have to rely on numerous local comparisons, which are not particularly informative for our research objectives (e.g., knowing whether d’ differs significantly between two adjacent orientations at a given viewpoint is of little relevance), or to use a polynomial contrast approach (testing the linear, quadratic, … up to the 7th order trends), which would also be difficult to interpret. For such complex, approximately Gaussian-shaped data, the highest-order polynomial trend would likely provide the best fit, but without offering meaningful insight.

      In contrast, a nonlinear approach appears more appropriate. The Gaussian model we used allows us to characterize the parameters of the tuning profile, namely, peak location, peak amplitude, standard deviation (or bandwidth) and base amplitude. These parameters are not merely statistical parameters. Rather, they are directly interpretable in cognitive/functional terms. The peak location corresponds to the orientation at which the Gaussian curve is centred, i.e. the preferred orientation band for identity recognition. The standard deviation represents the width of the curve, reflecting the strength or selectivity of the tuning. The base amplitude is the height of the Gaussian curve base, indicating the minimum level of sensitivity, typically found near vertical orientation. Finally, the peak amplitude refers to the height of the Gaussian curve relative to its baseline, that is, it captures the advantage of horizontal over vertical orientations.

      Moreover, the use of a nonlinear, Gaussian model is motivated by past work that showed that the Gaussian function fits the evolution of recognition performance as a function of orientation (Dakin and Watt 2009, Goffaux and Greenwood 2016). Orientation selectivity at primary stages of visual processing has also been modelled using Gaussian (or Difference of Gaussians; Ringach, Hawken and Shapley 2003).

      We revised the data analysis section to include a justification for our use of a Gaussian model: ‘Therefore, fitting the human sensitivity data could be fitted using a simple Gaussian model. seemed most appropriate as it allows characterizing the parameters of the tuning profile, namely, peak location, peak amplitude, standard deviation and base amplitude, which are directly interpretable in cognitive/functional terms. Moreover, the use of a nonlinear, Gaussian model is motivated by past work that showed that the Gaussian function fits the evolution of recognition performance as a function of orientation (Dakin & Watt, 2009; Goffaux & Greenwood, 2016). Simpler frameworks, i.e. a linear model predicting d’ from the interaction between orientation and viewpoint, would result in an 8 (orientation) * 7 (viewpoint) design that is difficult to analyze and interpret.’

      (2) When reporting the luminance and contrast of your stimuli, please make clear what these units and measures are. This was a case where I had to take a second to assure myself that I knew what the values meant.

      We clarified that the luminance and contrast values reported in the manuscript are on a grey scale ranging from 0 to 1.

      (3) In your Procedure section, I think describing the familiarization task right away would help the text flow more clearly. At present, you began talking about the old/new task, and I was immediately wondering how familiarization worked!

      The procedure section now starts with the description of the familiarization task.

      (4) p. 3 - "Culminates" doesn't seem like the right word here.

      We agree and rephrased this way: ‘The tolerance of face identity recognition is stronger for familiar than unfamiliar faces’.

      (5) p. 5 - I think "with the multiple" shouldn't have "the".

      Indeed, we removed the “the”.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I enjoyed reading the manuscript, but thought the Introduction was a bit long. I wasn't sure about the relevance of the section on temporal contiguity. I think this might have been more relevant if this had been a manipulation in the design. So, I wonder if this might be shortened or removed to focus on the key questions. On the other hand, I found the overview of the view-selective and view-tolerant to be a bit brief. There is plenty of detail here, but I found it difficult to break down what was done when I first read it. It might be good to provide an overview in the Discussion too.

      While past research on the contribution of temporal contiguity to face identity recognition brings interesting insights into the nature of the visual experience leading to view-tolerant performance, we agree with the Reviewer that this aspect is not directly at stake here. We reduced the review of this literature in the Introduction. We clarified the description of the model observers as suggested by the reviewer and made sure to provide an overview of the model observers in the Discussion as well.

      References.

      Burton, A. M., R. Jenkins and S. R. Schweinberger (2011). "Mental representations of familiar faces." Br J Psychol 102(4): 943-958.

      Burton, A. M., R. S. Kramer, K. L. Ritchie and R. Jenkins (2016). "Identity From Variation: Representations of Faces Derived From Multiple Instances." Cogn Sci 40(1): 202-223.

      Dakin, S. C. and R. J. Watt (2009). "Biological "bar codes" in human faces." J Vis 9(4): 2 1-10.

      Dumont, H., A. Roux-Sibilon and V. Goffaux (2024). "Horizontal face information is the main gateway to the shape and surface cues to familiar face identity." PLoS One 19(10): e0311225.

      Goffaux, V. and J. A. Greenwood (2016). "The orientation selectivity of face identification." Scientific Reports 6(34204): 34204.

      Hansen, B. C., E. A. Essock, Y. Zheng and J. K. DeFord (2003). "Perceptual anisotropies in visual processing and their relation to natural image statistics." Network 14(3): 501-526.

      Jenkins, R., D. White, X. Van Montfort and A. Mike Burton (2011). "Variability in photos of the same face." Cognition 121(3): 313-323.

      Jiang, F., L. Dricot, V. Blanz, R. Goebel and B. Rossion (2009). "Neural correlates of shape and surface reflectance information in individual faces." Neuroscience 163(4): 1078-1091.

      Keil, M. S. (2008). "Does face image statistics predict a preferred spatial frequency for human face processing?" Proc Biol Sci 275(1647): 2095-2100.

      Keil, M. S. (2009). ""I look in your eyes, honey": internal face features induce spatial frequency preference for human face processing." PLoS Comput Biol 5(3): e1000329.

      Menon, N., R. I. Kemp and D. White (2018). "More than a sum of parts: robust face recognition by integrating variation." R Soc Open Sci 5(5): 172381.

      Mike Burton, A. (2013). "Why has research in face recognition progressed so slowly? The importance of variability." Q J Exp Psychol (Hove) 66(8): 1467-1485.

      Ringach, D. L., M. J. Hawken and R. Shapley (2003). "Dynamics of orientation tuning in macaque V1: the role of global and tuned suppression." Journal of neurophysiology 90(1): 342-352.

      Russell, R., I. Biederman, M. Nederhouser and P. Sinha (2007). "The utility of surface reflectance for the recognition of upright and inverted faces." Vision Res 47(2): 157-165.

      Russell, R., P. Sinha, I. Biederman and M. Nederhouser (2006). "Is pigmentation important for face recognition? Evidence from contrast negation." Perception 35(6): 749-759.

      Troje, N. F. and H. H. Bulthoff (1996). "Face recognition under varying poses: the role of texture and shape." Vision Res 36(12): 1761-1771.

      Vuong, Q. C., J. J. Peissig, M. C. Harrison and M. J. Tarr (2005). "The role of surface pigmentation for recognition revealed by contrast reversal in faces and Greebles." Vision Res 45(10): 1213-1223.

    1. Author response:

      Thank you for the valuable feedback. We will be updating the manuscript to incorporate the reviewers' terrific suggestions. We specifically have:

      • Reduced redundancy and streamlined overlapping sections (especially around research alignment, protected time, and clinical demands)

      • Made the core decision-making framework more explicit and easier to extract (in a new Table 1, with clearer synthesis in the text)

      • Strengthened the emphasis on institutional/program context as a key determinant of success—arguably as important as specialty choice

      • Added more actionable guidance for trainees on how to evaluate departments (e.g., NIH Reporter, T32 presence, R01 density, K→R track record)

      • Included a slightly more explicit statement acknowledging that while all specialties can support physician-scientist careers, the structural ease varies and may require different levels of negotiation/support

      We did not address the broader workforce/job market question, since it feels outside the scope.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #2 (Public review): 

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Can the authors comment on the possibility of inflammatory response pathways being activated by hypoxia? Has this been shown before? While not the focus of the manuscript, it could be discussed in the Discussion as an interesting finding and potential involvement of other cells in the Hypoxic response.

      We thank the reviewer for reviewing our manuscript and for the important comment about inflammation. Indeed, hypoxia has been shown to activate the inflammatory response pathways. In various studies, it was found that HIF-1a can interact with NF-κB signaling, leading to the upregulation of pro-inflammatory cytokines such as IL-1β, IL-6, and TNF-α (Rius et al., Cell, 2008; Hagberg et al., Nat Rev Neurol, 2015).

      In our transcriptomics data (Fig. 2D), and to the reviewers’ point, we identified enrichment of inflammatory signaling response following the hypoxic exposure. Since hSO at the time of analyses do contain some astrocytes, we think these contribute to the observed pro-inflammatory changes and emphasize the feasibility of capturing this response in organoids in vitro. This is also important because ADM is known to have anti-inflammatory properties and should be investigated as such in future studies focused on hypoxia-induced inflammation.

      In the manuscript, we included a few sentences in the discussion to address the lack of in-depth analyses of inflammation as a limitation of our study.

      (2) Could the authors comment on the mechanism at play here with respect to ADM and binding to RAMP2 receptors - is this a potential autocrine loop, or is the source of ADM from other cell types besides inhibitory neurons? Given the scRNA-seq data, what cell-to-cell mechanisms can be at play? Since different cells express ADM, there could be different mechanisms in place in ventral vs dorsal areas.

      Based on our scRNA-seq data in hSOs showing significant upregulation of ADM expression in astrocytes and progenitors, and increased expression of RAMP2 receptors on neurons, we speculate that the primary mechanism is likely to involve paracrine interactions. However, we cannot exclude autocrine mechanisms with the current experiments. Dissecting these interactions in a cell-type specific manner could be an important focus for future ADM-related studies.

      To address the question about the possible different mechanisms in ventral versus dorsal areas, in the revision, we plotted and included in the figures the data about the cell-type expression of ADM and its receptors in hCOs (Fig. S3)

      (3) For data from Figure 6 - while the ELISA assays are informative to determine which pathways (PKA, AKT, ERK) are active, there is no positive control to indicate these assays are "working" - therefore, if possible, western blot analysis from assembloid tissue could be used (perhaps using the same lysates from Figure 3) as an alternative to validate changes at the protein level (however, this might prove difficult); further to this, is P-CREB activated at the protein level using WB?

      We thank the reviewer for this comment and the observation. Although we did not include a traditional positive control in these ELISA assays, several lines of evidence indicate that the measurements are reliable. First, the standard curves behaved as expected, and all sample values fell within the assay’s dynamic range. Second, technical replicates showed low variability, and the observed changes across experimental conditions (e.g., hypoxia vs. control) were consistent with the expected biological responses based on previous literature. We agree that including western blot validation would strengthen the findings, and we will note this for our future studies focused on CREB and ADM.

      (4) Could the authors comment further on the mechanism and what biological pathways and potential events are downstream of ADM binding to RAMP2 in inhibitory neurons? What functional impact would this have linked to the CREB pathway proposed? While the link to GABA receptors is proposed, CREB has many targets beyond this.

      We appreciate the reviewers’ insightful question. Currently, not much is known about the molecular pathways and downstream cellular events triggered by ADM binding to RAMP2 in inhibitory neurons, and in general in brain cells. The data from our study brings the first information about the cell-type specific expression of ADM in baseline and hypoxic conditions and is one of the key novelties of our study.

      While the signaling landscape of ADM in interneurons is largely unexplored, several studies in other (non-brain) cell types have demonstrated that ADM binding to RAMP2 can activate downstream cascades such as the cAMP/PKA/CREB pathway, PI3K/AKT, and ERK/MAPK, all of which are also known to be critical regulators of neuronal development and survival. These previously published data along with our CREB-targeted findings in hypoxic interneurons, suggest ADM–RAMP2 signaling could influence multiple aspects of interneuron biology, but these remain to be evaluated in future studies.

      We agree with the reviewer that CREB has a wide range of transcriptional targets. We decided to focus on GABA as a target of CREB for two main reasons, including: (i) GABA signaling has been previously shown to play an important role in the migration of cortical interneurons, and (ii) a previous study by Birey et al. (Cell Stem Cell, 2022) demonstrated that CREB pathway activity is essential for regulating interneuron migration in assembloid models of Timothy Syndrome, thus further providing evidence that dysregulation of CREB activity disrupts migration dynamics.

      While our study provides a first step toward uncovering the mechanisms of interneuron migration protection by ADM, we fully acknowledge that future work will be needed to delineate the full spectrum of ADM–RAMP2 downstream signaling events in inhibitory neurons and other brain cells.

      (5) Does hypoxia cause any changes to inhibitory neurogenesis (earlier stages than migration?) - this might always be known, but was not discussed.

      We appreciate this question from the reviewer; however, this was not something that we focused on in this manuscript due to the already large amount of data included. A separate study focusing on neurogenesis defects and the molecular mechanisms of injury for that specific developmental process would be an important next step.

      (6) In the Discussion section, it might be worth detailing to the readers what the functional impact of delayed/reduced migration of inhibitory neurons into the cortex might result in, in terms of functional consequences for neural circuit development.

      We thank the Reviewer for the suggestion of detailing the functional impact of reduced inhibitory neuron migration. The manuscript to discuss that previous studies show that failure of interneurons to migrate and reach their designated targets within the appropriate developmental window leads to their elimination through apoptosis. Decreased numbers (or abnormal development) of interneurons are associated with neurodevelopmental impairments and abnormal functional connectivity in the brain.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) The authors should examine if all cortical interneurons are affected by ADM or only subtypes (Parvalbumin/Somatostatin).

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important question. In our study, we utilized the Dlx1/2b::eGFP reporter to broadly label cortical interneurons; however, this system does not distinguish specific interneuron subtypes. To address this, in the manuscript we used the single-cell RNA sequencing data and immunostainings to provide this information. As expected based on our previous reports, most cortical interneurons present in organoids are represented by calretinin (CALB2), somatostatin (SST) and calbindin (CALB1). These data are now presented in Fig. S3.

      Separately, we used available scRNA-seq data from developing human brain and showed that at ~20 PCW, the developing human brain has similar types of cortical interneurons. These data are now included in Fig. S5.

      (2) The authors should test more candidates from their bulk RNA-seq data with different fold changes for regulation after hypoxia, to allow the reader to judge at which cut-off the DEGs may be reproducible. This would make this database much more valuable for the field of hypoxia research.

      We appreciate the reviewers’ thoughtful suggestion. In addition to the bulk RNA-seq analysis, we did validate several upregulated hypoxia-responsive genes with varying fold changes by qPCR; these include PDK1, PFKP, VEGFA (Fig. S1).

      We do agree that in-depth investigation of specific cut-offs would be interesting, however, this could be the focus of a different manuscript.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Most of the evidence presented is convincing in supporting the conclusions, and I have only minor suggestions for improvement:

      (1) The bulk RNA-seq was performed in hSOs only, which may not fully capture the phenotypes of migrating or migrated interneurons. It would be valuable, if feasible, to sort migrated cells from hSO-hCO assembloids and specifically examine their molecular mediators.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. While it is likely that the cellular environment will have some influence on a subset of the molecular changes, based on all the data from the manuscript and our specific target, the RNA-sequencing on hSOs was sufficient to capture essential changes like ADM upregulation. The in-depth exploration on differential responses of migrated versus non-migrated interneurons to hypoxia could be the focus of a different project.

      (2) In Figure 3, it is striking that cell-type heterogeneity dominates over hypoxia vs. control conditions. A joint embedding of hSO and hCO cells could provide further insight into molecular differences between migrated and non-migrated interneurons.

      We thank the reviewer for this observation and opportunity to clarify. Since we manually separated the assembloids before the analyses, we processed these samples separately. That is why they separate like this. In the revision, we added data about ADM expression and its receptors’ expression in the hCOs.

      (3) It would be helpful to expand the discussion on how closely the migration observed in hSO-hCO assembloids reflects in vivo conditions, and what environmental aspects are absent from this model. This would better frame the interpretation and translational relevance of the findings.

      We thank the Reviewer for bringing up this important point. Although the assembloid model offers the unique advantage of allowing the direct investigation of migration patterns of hypoxic interneurons, we fully agree it does not fully recapitulate the in vivo environment. While there are multiple aspects that cannot be recapitulated in vitro at this time (e.g. cellular complexity, vasculature, immune response, etc), we are encouraged by the validation of our main findings in ex vivo developing human brain tissue, which strongly supports the validity of our findings for in vivo conditions.

      We expanded our discussion to include more details and the need to validate these findings using in vivo models.

      (4) The authors suggest that hypoxia is also associated with delayed interneuron maturation, yet the bulk RNA-seq data primarily reveal stress and hypoxia-related genes. A more detailed discussion of why genes linked to interneuron maturation and function were not strongly affected would clarify this point.

      We thank the Reviewer for the opportunity to clarify.

      The RNAseq data was performed during the acute stages of hypoxia/reoxygenation and we think a maturation phenotype might be difficult to capture at this point and would require analysis at later in vitro assembloid maturation stages.

      Our speculation about a possible maturation defect is based on data from previous studies from developmental biology that showed failure of interneurons to reach their final cortical location within a specified developmental window will impair their integration within the neuronal network, and thus lead to maturation defects and possible elimination by apoptosis.

      Since preterm infants suffer from countless hypoxic events over multiple months, we speculate these repetitive events are likely to induce cumulative delays in migration, inability of interneurons to reach their target in time, followed by abnormal integration within the excitatory network, and eventual elimination of some of these interneurons through apoptosis. However, the direct demonstration of this effect following a hypoxic insult would require prolonged in vivo experiments in rodents to follow the migration, network integration and apoptosis of interneurons; to our knowledge this experimental design is not technically feasible at this time, and thus this hypothesis remains speculative and only included in the discussion.

      (5) Relatedly, while the focus on interneuron migration is well justified, acknowledging how hypoxia might also impact other aspects of cortical development (e.g., progenitor proliferation, neuronal maturation, or circuit integration) would place the findings in a broader developmental framework and strengthen their relevance.

      We appreciate the Reviewer’s suggestion to discuss the role of hypoxia on other interneuron developmental processes during cortical development. In the manuscript, we included text in the discussion about the likely effects of hypoxia on interneuron proliferation, maturation and circuit integration.

      (6) Very minor: in Figure S3C and D, it was not stated what the colors mean (grey: control, yellow: hypoxia)

      Thank you for pointing out this error; we corrected it in our revision.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      In the manuscript Ruhling et al propose a rapid uptake pathway that is dependent on lysosomal exocytosis, lysosomal Ca2+ and acid sphingomyelinase, and further suggest that the intracellular trafficking and fate of the pathogen is dictated by the mode of entry. Overall, this is manuscript argues for an important mechanism of a 'rapid' cellular entry pathway of S.aureus that is dependent on lysosomal exocytosis and acid sphingomyelinase and links the intracellular fate of bacterium including phagosomal dynamics, cytosolic replication and host cell death to different modes of uptake. 

      Key strength is the nature of the idea proposed, while continued reliance on inhibitor treatment combined with lack of phenotype / conditional phenotype for genetic knock out is a major weakness. 

      In the revised version, the authors perform experiments with ASM KO cells to provide genetic evidence of the role for ASM in S. aureus entry through lysosomal modulation. The key additional experiment is the phenotype of reduced bacterial uptake in low serum, but not in high serum conditions. The authors suggest this could be due to the SM from serum itself affecting the entry. While this explanation is plausible, prolonged exposure of cells to low serum is well documented to alter several cellular functions, particularly in the context of this manuscript, lysosomal positioning, exocytosis and Ca2+ signaling. A better control here could be WT cells grown in low serum.

      As the reviewer suggested, we did culture both, WT control cells as well as ASM knock-outs, under low serum conditions before conducting the invasion assays. Hence, the detected effects on S. aureus invasion must be caused by lack of functional ASM in the mutant.

      We apologize that this did not become evident from the manuscript’s text. We thus included a change in line 259 which now reads:

      ”To test whether FBS confounded our invasion experiments, we cultivated WT as well as ASM K.O. cells in medium with reduced FBS concentration (1%) and determined the S. aureus invasion efficiency (Figure 2I).”

      If SM in serum can interfere, why do they see such pronounced phenotype on bacterial entry in WT cells upon chemical inhibition?

      We explain the differences between inhibitor-treated WT cells and ASM K.O.s by the severe accumulation of SM upon genetic ablation of ASM. We demonstrated this by HPLC-MS/MS measurements in Figure 2L. If cells were cultured in 10% FBS, an ASM K.O. resulted in approx. 4-times higher levels of cellular SM C18:0 when compared to WT cells, while amitriptyline treatment of WT cells had no effect, and ARC39 treatment increased SM C18:0 levels only by 2-fold. This likely results from different durations of SM accumulation in the cell pools which is caused either by complete absence of ASM (in case of the ASM K.O.) or only in the hour-range upon treatment with the inhibitors.

      Under low serum conditions, the severe SM C18:0 accumulation in the ASM K.O. was found decreased (from 4-fold to 2-fold when compared to WT cells; Figure 2M). Here, the WT cells used as reference also were cultured in the same manner as the ASM K.O. A similar pattern was observed for other SM species (Supp. Figure 3). This correlates with the S. aureus invasion phenotype in ASM K.O.: under high serum conditions (and resulting in severe SM accumulation) we did not detect an invasion defect, while under low serum conditions (resulting in only moderate SM accumulation) S. aureus invasion was reduced in the knock-outs when compared to WT cells cultured in the same conditions, respectively.

      While the authors argue a role for undetectable nano-scale Cer platforms on the cell surface caused by ASM activity, results do not rule out a SM independent role in the cellular uptake phenotype of ASM inhibitors.

      Since the comments starting with the line above are identical to the previous comments by the reviewer, we assume that these points of criticism still resound with the Reviewer, although we had agreed previously with the reviewer that we do not show formation of ceramide-enriched platforms, we had changed the manuscript accordingly in the previous revision round already (see also our comment below).

      The authors have attempted to address many of the points raised in the previous revision. While the new data presented provide partial evidence, the reliance on chemical inhibitors and lack of clear results directly documenting release of lysosomal Ca2+, or single bacterial tracking, or clear distinction between ASM dependent and independent processes dampen the enthusiasm.

      We continue to share the reviewer’s desire to discriminate between ASM-dependent and ASMindependent processes, but the simultaneous occurrence of multiple pathways of bacterial uptake is currently the limiting factor and technological challenge in our laboratory, since these events happen rapidly. We do hope that we or others will be able to address these limitations in the future, for instance with the technologies suggested by the reviewer.

      I acknowledge the author's argument of different ASM inhibitors showing similar phenotypes across different assays as pointing to a role for ASM, but the lack of phenotype in ASM KO cells is concerning. The author's argument that altered lipid composition in ASM KO cells could be overcoming the ASMmediated infection effects by other ASM-independent mechanisms is speculative, as they acknowledge, and moderates the importance of ASM-dependent pathway. The SM accumulation in ASM KO cells does not distinguish between localized alterations within the cells. If this pathway can be compensated, how central is it likely to be ? 

      We here want to elaborate again, since our revision experiments demonstrate the ASM-dependency of the rapid uptake under low serum conditions – see also above. We were convinced that the genetic evidence of an S. aureus invasion phenotype in ASM K.O.s under these conditions would eliminate the reviewer’s concern about the role of ASM during the bacterial invasion (see also above). Our lipidomics data of ASM K.O.s cultured in 1% and 10% FBS (Figure 2, M, Supp. Figure 3) and inhibitor-treated WT cells (Figure 2L, Supp. Figure 3) show a correlation between SM accumulation and the invasion phenotype observed by us.

      We agree with the reviewer, however, that it remains elusive why changes in the sphingolipidome increase ASM-independent S. aureus internalization by host cells. One explanation is a dysfunction of the lipid raft-associated protein caveolin-1 upon strong SM accumulation, which was previously shown to appear in ASM-deficient cells (1, 2). A lack of caveolin-1 results in strongly increased host cell entry of S. aureus in certain cell types (3, 4). In other cell types, such as A549 cells, S. aureus invades in an αtoxin and caveolin-1 dependent fashion (5). It will be interesting to study, to what extent such processes as described by Goldmann and colleagues will depend on ASM. However, a characterization of the mechanism behind these observations requires further experimentation and is beyond the scope of the current manuscript. 

      As to the centrality of the pathway: we cannot and do not make any assumptions on the centrality of the pathway and its importance in vivo. As scientists we were intrigued by our finding of an ASM dependent uptake pathway for S. aureus – especially its speed. In different as of yet still unidentified host cell types or cell lines such a pathway may pose a major entry point for pathogens. Alternatively, we may have identified an ASM-dependent mode of receptor uptake, with which the bacteria “piggyback” into the cells.

      The authors allude to lower phagosomal escape rate in ASM KO cells compared to inhibitor treatment, which appears to contradict the notion of uptake and intracellular trafficking phenotype being tightly linked. As they point out, these results might be hard to interpret.

      We again want to add that we measured phagosomal escape of S. aureus in WT and ASM K.O. cells cultured in 1% FBS (low serum conditions) and compared it to escape rates obtained with host cells cultured in 10% FBS. Again, we infected cells for 10 or 30 min and determined the escape rates 3h p.i. However, the results are similar to escape rates determined with 10% FBS (see Author response image 1). This was addressed already during the manuscript’s first revision. We found that escape rates of S. aureus were significantly decreased in absence of ASM regardless of the FBS concentration in the medium.

      Author response image 1.

      We therefore think that prolonged absence of ASM has additional side effects. For instance, certain endocytic pathways could be up- or down-regulated to adapt for the absence of ASM or could be affected by other changes in the lipidome (that can be minimized but not completely prevented by culturing cells in 1% FBS). This could, for instance, affect maturation of S. aureus-containing phagosomes and hence phagosomal escape.

      As it is currently unclear in how far the prolonged absence of ASM activity affects cellular processes, we think other experiments investigating the role of ASM-dependent invasion for phagosomal escape are more reliable. Most importantly, bacteria that enter host cell early during infection (and thus, predominantly via the “rapid” ASM-dependent pathway) possess lower phagosomal escape rates than bacteria that entered host cells later during infection (Figure 5, D and E). This is confirmed by higher escapes rates upon blocking ASM-dependent invasion with Vacuolin-1 (Figure 4E) and three different ASM inhibitors (Figure 4C and D). We further demonstrate that sphingomyelin on the plasma membrane during invasion influences phagosomal escape, while sphingomyelin levels in the phagosomal membrane did not change phagosomal escape (Figure5 a and b). This is summarized in Figure 5F.

      Could an inducible KD system recapitulate (some of) the phenotype of inhibitor treatment? If S. aureus does not escape phagosome in macrophages, could it provide a system to potentially decouple the uptake and intracellular trafficking effects by ASM (or its inhibitor treatment) ?

      Knock-downs in our laboratory are based on the vector pLVTHM(6). Inducible knock-downs in the cells would require the introduction of an inducible Tet<sup>on</sup> system, which the cells currently do not harbor.

      However, it needs to be stated that for optimal gene knock-downs, the induction of this system has to be performed by doxycycline supplementation in the medium for 7 days thus leading to several days of growth of the cells, which will allow the cells to adapt their lipid metabolism thus reflecting a situation that we encounter for the K.O.s.

      ASM-dependent uptake of S. aureus in macrophages has been demonstrated before (7). However, the course of infection in macrophages differs from non-professional phagocytes (8). E.g. in macrophages, S. aureus replicates within phagosomes, whereas in non-professional phagocytes replicates in the host cytosol. Absence of ASM therefore may influence the intracellular infection of macrophages with S. aureus in a distinct manner.

      The role of ASM on cell surface remains unclear. The hypothesis proposed by the authors that the localized generation of Cer on the surface by released ASM leads to generation of Cer-enriched platforms could be plausible, but is not backed by data, technical challenges to visualize these platforms notwithstanding. These results do not rule out possible SM independent effects of ASM on the cell surface, if indeed the role of ASM is confirmed by controlled genetic depletion studies.

      We agree with the reviewer that we do not show generation of ceramide-enriched platforms (see also above). We thus already had changed Figure 6F in the revised manuscript to make clear that it remains elusive whether ceramide-enriched platforms are formed. We also had added a sentence to the discussion (line 615) to emphasize that the existence of these microdomains is still debated in lipid research.

      We think that the following observations support SM-dependent effects of ASM during S. aureus invasion:

      (i) Reduced invasion upon removing SM from the plasma membrane (Figure 2N, Supp. Figure 2M)

      (ii) Increased invasion in TPC1 and Syt7 K.O. (Figure 2, P) in presence of exogenously added SMase.

      However, we agree with the reviewer that we do not directly demonstrate ASM-mediated SM cleavage during S. aureus invasion. Hence, we had added a sentence to the discussion that mentions a possible SM-independent role of ASM for invasion (line 556) that reads:

      “Since it remains elusive to which extent ASM processes SM on the plasma membrane during S. aureus invasion, one may speculate that ASM could also have functions other than SM metabolization during host cell entry of the pathogen. However, we did not detect a direct interaction between S. aureus and ASM in an S. aureus-host interactome screen (9).”

      The reviewer acknowledges technical challenges in directly visualizing lysosomal Ca2+ using the methods outlined. Genetically encoded lysosomal Ca2+ sensor such as Gcamp3-ML1 might provide better ways to directly visualize this during inhibitor treatment, or S. aureus infection. 

      We again thank the reviewer for this suggestion. We already had included the following section in our discussion (then: line 593): “Since fluorescent calcium reporters allow to monitor this process microscopically, future experiments may visualize this process in more detail and contribute to our understanding of the underlying signaling. mechanisms.”

      References for the purpose of this response letter:

      (1) Rappaport, J., C. Garnacho, and S. Muro, Clathrin-mediated endocytosis is impaired in type AB Niemann-Pick disease model cells and can be restored by ICAM-1-mediated enzyme replacement. Mol Pharm, 2014. 11(8): p. 2887-95.

      (2) Rappaport, J., et al., Altered Clathrin-Independent Endocytosis in Type A Niemann-Pick Disease Cells and Rescue by ICAM-1-Targeted Enzyme Delivery. Mol Pharm, 2015. 12(5): p. 1366-76.

      (3) Hoffmann, C., et al., Caveolin limits membrane microdomain mobility and integrin-mediated uptake of fibronectin-binding pathogens. J Cell Sci, 2010. 123(Pt 24): p. 4280-91.

      (4) Tricou, L.-P., et al., Staphylococcus aureus can use an alternative pathway to be internalized by osteoblasts in absence of β1 integrins. Scientific Reports, 2024. 14(1): p. 28643.

      (5) Goldmann, O., et al., Alpha-hemolysin promotes internalization of Staphylococcus aureus into human lung epithelial cells via caveolin-1- and cholesterol-rich lipid rafts. Cell Mol Life Sci, 2024. 81(1): p. 435.

      (6) Wiznerowicz, M. and D. Trono, Conditional suppression of cellular genes: lentivirus vectormediated drug-inducible RNA interference. J Virol, 2003. 77(16): p. 8957-61.

      (7) Li, C., et al., Regulation of Staphylococcus aureus Infection of Macrophages by CD44, Reactive Oxygen Species, and Acid Sphingomyelinase. Antioxid Redox Signal, 2018. 28(10): p. 916-934.

      (8) Moldovan, A. and M.J. Fraunholz, In or out: Phagosomal escape of Staphylococcus aureus. Cell Microbiol, 2019. 21(3): p. e12997.

      (9) Rühling, M., et al., Identification of the Staphylococcus aureus endothelial cell surface interactome by proximity labeling. mBio, 2025. 0(0): p. e03654-24.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      (1) The study does not explore or discuss how oral ingestion of Nora virus leads to the colonization of stem cells, which are located basally in the gut. This mechanism should be discussed.

      We have added an additional paragraph (4th) in the Discussion dealing with this issue and are further discussing the consequences of RNAi potentially not being functional in progenitor cells in the paragraph on antiviral responses.

      (2) The authors fail to detect Dicer-GFP fusion protein expression in stem cells, a finding that could explain why the virus persists in these cells. Further investigation is needed to determine whether RNAi functions are effective in stem cells compared to enterocytes. For clarification, the authors could cross esg-Gal4 UAS-GFP and Myo-Gal4 UAS-GFP with UAS GFP-RNAi and/or express a Dicer-GFP construct under a stem cell-specific driver.

      Actually, it is well-known in the Drosophila literature on the intestinal epithelium that RNAi functions well in progenitor cells as the technique has been widely used to understand the control of stem cell division and differentiation in tens of articles. We provide here just a few examples: Jiang et al., Nat Commun (2025) https://doi.org/10.1038/s41467-024-55255-1; Zhai et al., PLoS Genetics (2017) https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pgen.1006854; Wu et al., https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pgen.1009649.

      (3) The presentation of experimental parameters (e.g., pathogen type, temperature, time points) should be improved in the results section and at the top of the figures to enhance clarity. Additionally, details regarding the mode of oral infection (continuous exposure vs. single feeding on a filter) should be specified. Given that fly stock flipping frequency influences microbiota load (as noted in Broderick et al.), this should be reported, especially for lifespan studies.

      P. aeruginosa oral infection was always by continuous exposure, as detailed in the Mat.& Meth. section. Nora infection was done by exposure to the viral solution for 24h, as detailed in Mat. & Meth. The flipping frequency had also been reported in that section.

      (4) To confirm that enterocyte colonization requires stem cell proliferation and differentiation, the authors should analyze Nora virus localization in JAK-STAT-deficient flies infected with bacteria or toxicants. This would help determine whether the virus can infect enterocytes in the absence of enterocyte differentiation, but stimulation of stem cells.

      We now provide these data (pictures and quantification) in Fig.7 G-H and discuss them in the main text.

      (5) The study does not discuss the spatial distribution of Nora virus infection along the gut. Specifically, it remains unclear whether viral colonization is higher in gut regions R2 and R3, which contain proliferative stem cells. Addressing this could provide valuable insights into the virus's infection dynamics.

      We have now specified that Nora virus was detected only in the posterior midgut; we are now also providing a schematic illustration in Fig. S5J.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Major Suggestion

      See weaknesses section for key areas requiring improvement.

      Minor Suggestions

      (1) Line 79: Mention Nox in the text. Key references on Nox include Jones (2013), Iatsenko (2018), and Patel (2016).

      Done.

      (2) Line 92: The long list of publications is unnecessary and can be shortened.

      We are not sure that many investigators are aware of the scope of our studies on host-pathogen relationships and this is the adequate place for a reminder.

      (3) Line 196: Cite Choi et al. (Aging Cell, 2008; 7:318-334. doi: 10.1111/j.1474- 9726.2008.00380.x) for the initial work on gut dysplasia during aging. However, note that dysbiosis in aging is demonstrated in Buchon et al. (2009, Genes and Development) and other studies.

      Done.

      (4) Line 265: It would be interesting to clarify whether the shortened lifespan of Norainfected flies after a clean injury is dependent on the microbiota.

      The shortened life span of Nora-infected flies is not due to the injury as demonstrated in Fig. S4F. Hence, the shortened lifespan is differentially affected by the microbiota according to nutrition conditions as documented in Fig. 3D-E.

      (5) Line 285: Clarify what is meant by "polyubiquitin promoter"-do the authors mean a ubiquitous Gal4 driver? Specify the Gal4 lines used in the result section.

      Done. The construct is a direct fusion of the ubiquitin p63E promoter to the Dicer-fluorescent protein sequences as described in Girardi et al., Sci Rep, 2015.

      (6) Line 347: Indicate the references aligning with the most recent studies on this topic.

      Done.

      (7) Line 373 and elsewhere: Mention studies that have shown the microbiota influence on lifespan, in relation to dietary richness.

      Done.

      (8) Line 588: Provide details on the method used for hemolymph collection.

      Done.

      (9) Line 964: Clarify the phrase "as previously shown"-where in this paper was it demonstrated?

      The legends have been rewritten and the phrase has been deleted.

      (10) Line 987: In "survival of non-infested with PA14," explicitly mention Nora to distinguish between different infections.

      Done.

      Figures & Experimental Details

      (11) Figures: Improve figure legends or add information at the top of figures, specifying:

      Number of flies used to monitor Nora virus titer.

      Temperature conditions. o Age of flies used in experiments.

      Done.

      (12) Figure 2E: The lifespan of Nora-negative flies appears very short. Was this lifespan assay conducted at 29{degree sign}C? What was the fly stock flipping rate?

      Correct, it was 29°C. As described in the Material and Methods section, the flies were flipped every two (29°C) to four days (25°C).

      (13) Figure 4C: Improve labeling on the plate for better clarity.

      Done.

      (14) Figure 6C: The figure legend on the right is difficult to interpret. Clarify what "+" indicates and explicitly write out the genotype. Is NP identical to NPG4G80?

      Done. NP is the NP1 driver. We usually use it in a version that also includes a Gal80<sup>ts</sup> transgene to express the gene of interest only at the adult stage.

      (15) Dissection Details: Clearly state which part of the gut was dissected-midgut, entire gut, {plus minus} Malpighian tubules. This should be specified in the results section.

      Done (no Malpighian tubules nor crop) for RTqPCR analyses.

      (16) Clean Injury: Provide more details in the results section regarding the injury site and needle size.

      Done.

      (17) Use "Abx" instead of "AntiB," as the former is more commonly recognized.

      Done.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      The title does not seem to be fully supported by the data. While the authors convincingly show the increased sensitivity to Pseudomonas infection, effects on another tested bacterium, Serratia marcescens, were not significantly different between Nora-virus-infected and noninfected flies. Thus, effects of 'intestinal infection' seem to be too broad a claim.

      We agree with the reviewer and have accordingly modified the title, which now explicitly refers to P. aeruginosa.

      Also, whether the Nora virus increases sensitivity to oxidative stress is not so clear to me: the figure that supports this claim is the survival assay of Figure 5F. However, the difference in survival between control and paraquat-treated Nora (-) flies seems to be in the same order as between control and paraquat-treated Nora (+) flies. Rather, cause and effect seem to be the reverse: paraquat increases ISC proliferation, higher viral loads, and consequently shorter survival. I suggest rephrasing the title and conclusions accordingly.

      While we usually just directly compare Nora (+) vs. Nora (-) flies with the same conditions, we note that the difference of survival between control and paraquat-treated Nora (-) flies is of about 9 days, based on LT50 values whereas it is of 8 days for Nora(+) flies. This difference is of about two days when comparing Nora (+) to Nora (-) flies exposed to paraquat. Thus, Nora does contribute to an increased sensitivity to oxidative stress likely by the process highlighted by the reviewer and also by its own detrimental action on the homeostasis of the intestinal epithelium and associated disruption of its barrier function.

      Quantification of immunofluorescence microscopy is missing, rendering the images somewhat anecdotal. Quantification should be provided. It will then also be of interest to quantify the number of Nora (+) cells, and the Nora virus levels per infected cell (e.g. Figure 5H). Also, the claim that the Nora virus initially infects ISC and later (upon stress) infects enterocytes requires quantification.

      Missing quantifications of pictures have been added: Figs. S5E and 7H. We are not sure we understand the reviewer comment on “Nora virus levels per infected cell”: the signal we are seeing may correspond to aggregates of the virus and would be impossible to quantify reliably, e.g., in the right-most panel of Fig. 5H. Fig. 5I clearly shows that no Nora is detected in enterocytes of young 5-day-old flies in the absence of infectious or xenobiotic challenge.

      Genetic support for the role of the JAK-STAT pathway in driving ISC proliferation and supporting Nora virus replication is convincing. It would also be of interest to analyze other pathways implicated in ISC proliferation (e.g. JNK, EGFR), especially given the observations of Nigg et al, showing an involvement of STING/NF-kB and EGFR pathway in driving intestinal phenotypes of Drosophila A virus-infected flies (doi: 10.1016/j.cub.2024.05.009).

      We agree with the reviewer that these would be interesting experiments to perform, especially in the light of one hypothesis that antiviral defenses may prevent the initial infection of enterocytes as discussed at length in our updated discussion on host antiviral defenses. However, we are currently unable to perform additional experiments and leave it to other interested investigators studying antiviral innate immunity to address these questions. In this work, we used the interference with the JAK-STAT pathway as a second tool to block the division of ISCs.

      Figure 5E: An intriguing observation is that GFP:Dicer2 seems to be unstable in Nora virusinfected cells. Here, GFP control driven by the same driver line would be required to confidently conclude that this is due to an effect on Dicer-2 specifically.

      Actually, this experiment was not performed using the Gal4-UAS system but a direct fusion. We do know that GFP is stable when expressed in enterocytes, e.g., Lee et al., Cell Host&Microbe (2016) DOI: 10.1016/j.chom.2016.10.010.

      Legends are mostly conclusive, and essential information about the experimental setup is missing in the captions of multiple figures, making the interpretation of the data difficult. See my private recommendations for suggestions to improve the data presentation.

      Done.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Suggestions for the presentation of the data:

      (1) I found the names Ore-R(SC) and Ore-R(SM) for noninfected vs infected Ore-R flies not very intuitive. I suggest renaming them into something that makes the infection status clear.

      These notations refer to two distinct sub-strains that may reflect different origins with some likely genetic drift accounting for the distinct properties of the two sub-strains. As the ORE-R (SM) have different infection status: infested, cleaned, re-infected, we fear that this would not clarify the matter. Of note, ORE-R(SC) are refractory to Nora virus infection (Fig. S1I).

      (2) Please define the number of flies analyzed for survival assays in the legends.

      Done.

      (3) The authors provide conclusions in most of the figure legends, without providing an explanation of the experiment that was done. Conclusions should be used sparingly, if at all, in legends. Also, relevant information is often missing in the legends (time points after infection, Figure 2E food source, etc.). I suggest the authors carefully double-check their legends and rephrase the conclusive legends with descriptive ones.

      Done. The figure legends have been rewritten.

      (4) Several of the legends indicate that 'data represent the mean of biological triplicates' however some panels do not represent triplicates (e.g. Figure 1C-E). Please correct.

      Done.

      (5) Legends: which multiple comparison test was used for ANOVA?

      Done. Tukey’s post-hoc test was used for direct comparisons.

      (6) Line 888: black arrows are not shown in the figure.

      Corrected.

      (7) Figure 1F: legend on the figure seems incorrect (all are labeled Nora (+)); likewise for Figure 2C (all labeled Nora (-)).

      Corrected.

      (8) Materials and methods: please describe how the Nora virus antibody was raised (and specify on line 271 what viral protein is recognized).

      Done. As the whole virus was used for immunization, we cannot state which specific viral proteins are detected by the antibody.

      (9) Please define what is presented in the box plots (mean, range, whiskers, individual data points).

      Done.

      (10) Figure 4 and associated text (line 221): a brief explanation of the Smurf assay would be useful.

      Done.

      (11) Figure 4C: I did not find the picture of the agar plate informative, as similar information is conveyed in Figure 4D. Also, the labelling cannot be clearly read.

      Figure 4D provides a quantification of panel C. The readability has been improved.

      (12) Figure 4C: It is suggested that Nora-positive, smurf-negative flies were analyzed, but from Figure 4B it seems that these do not exist. Please explain.

      The data in Fig. 4B do not represent absolute numbers but percentages. Thus, there were at most 50% of SMURF-positive flies at the time of the assay, the rest being Smurf-negative yet Nora-positive.

      (13) The abbreviations PA14 and Db11 are used in several figures. I would suggest defining the abbreviation in the legend to facilitate interpretation.

      Done.

      (14) Figure 5A/5G: the Nora virus RNA levels in this figure are dramatically lower than the levels in other figure panels. Please check/correct.

      Done. The reviewer is indeed correct: we have forgotten to write that for these two panels, the loads are relative and not absolute as is the case in other panels. 5A: the load in whole flies was taken to be 1; 5G: untreated Nora-positive flies were taken to be 1.

      (15) Figure 6A: total number of AporTag positive cells are reported. Were the same number of total cells analyzed? Please define.

      We have not counted all of the cells in each midgut but provide the number of ApopTag positive cells per midgut. We thus make the assumption that the overall number of midgut cells is not varying much from one midgut to the other. Visual inspection of DAPI-stained nuclei did not reveal any obvious change in the density of enterocyte nuclei as illustrated in Fig. S6 (we guess that everyone in the field is making the same assumption when counting mitotic ISCs with PHH3 staining).

      (16) Figure 6C: I find the shades of blue difficult to distinguish and suggest to us other colors.

      Done.

      (17) There seems to be a large mismatch between the percentage of Nora virus-positive cells in Figures 5C, 6H and the images of Figures 5G and 5H. Why?

      We think there might be a mistake with the Figure numbers cited by the referee. We guess the point the referee was trying to raise is the difference of perceived Nora virus burden between Fig. 5H and Fig. 6G, a quite valid point. For Fig. 5H, we had measured the Nora-virus load by RTqPCR (Fig. 5G, relative burden) but had not quantified the images. This is now done and shown in Fig. 5I. In Fig. 5H, young flies were used and hence there was no Nora virus detected in ECs, as now quantified in Fig. 5I. For Fig. 6G, we had to use 30-day old intestines to be able to observe Nora virus in the enterocytes of the controls. We have now included this important point in the main text and in the Figure legends.

      (18) The Title of the legend in Figure 7 is not supported by the data as 'spread through the intestine' has not been analyzed. Please adjust.

      Done.

      (19) All figures in which ANOVA is used: I assume that anything not labeled with an asterisk was found to be non-significant? If so, this should be indicated in the manuscript.

      Actually, we have not highlighted obvious differences to maintain clarity (e.g., Fig. 1E between uncured Ore-R(SM) and cured Ore-R(SC). We thus have underlined the biologically relevant differences in the panels. The interested readr can refer to the primary data that are accessible on a data repository.

      (20) Figure 7C: the authors may want to contrast their finding that Upd3 was not upregulated in Nora virus-infected flies (in the absence of PA14) with the findings of Kuyateh et al, who did report upregulation of Upd3 (https://doi.org/10.3390/v15091849).

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out this study we were unaware of. We would like to point out that this article is difficult to follow as it is not 100% clear in which of the analyzed studies the induction of upd3 was observed and which exact experimental conditions were followed, e.g., young or old flies, whole flies or gut… We have looked in more detail at ref. 133 of this article, which refers to an unpublished study from the Hultmark laboratory that is however available online: (https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/record.jsf?aq2=%5B%5B%5D%5D&c=15&af=%5B%5D&searchType=SIMPLE&sortOrder2=title_sort_asc&query=Nora+virus&language=en&pid=diva2%3A1045375&aq=%5B%5B%5D%5D&sf=all&aqe=%5B%5D&sortOrder=author_sort_asc&onlyFullText=false&noOfRows=50&dswid=4587).

      In that study, flies were “infected” with Nora virus by expressing a cDNA clone injected into embryos. The problem is that for some unknown reasons the authors used Relish mutant flies. It is thus difficult to conclude as these flies are defective for the IMD and Sting pathways whereas our flies are wild-type. We were also interested to read that genes involved in midgut stem cells differentiation were expressed in flies harboring Nora virus, which is in keeping with the data of the present study. However, it is difficult to discuss this when we know little on the background of the studies analyzed by Kuyateh et al, in as much as our Discussion is already rather long.

      (21) Figure 7E: are the differences between control and Dome/Stat knockdown flies significantly different for Nora (+) flies (in the absence of Pseudomonas)? This is not clear from the data presentation.

      The answer to the question is positive: the JAK-STAT pathway also contributes to the maintenance of intestinal epithelium homeostasis in the absence of bacterial infection, that is presumably basal conditions. We have modified Fig. 7E to include more comparisons.

      Textual suggestions:

      (22) Line 25 strives > thrives

      Done.

      (23) Lines 150- 152, etc are not very informative. Also, some of the viruses analyzed are not "known contaminating viruses", but viruses used experimentally (VSV, IIV6, CrPV). I suggest adjusting the phrasing.

      Done.

      (24) Line 862: weaker fitness > lower fitness.

      Done.

      (25) Virology terms:

      (a) I suggest not using the term titer for qPCR readouts (which do not involve titration). Viral RNA level or viral RNA load would be more appropriate.

      Done.

      (b) I would propose rephrasing the Y-axis label of Figure 1C, E to Nora RNA load (same for other figures showing viral RNA).

      Done.

      (c) Infested: rather use the more accurate term infected.

      Done.

      (d) Contamination: rather use the term infection.

      We have modified some but not all occurrences of this word. We believe that it is important to use the word contamination when referring to enterocytes: the enterocytes are not infected by Nora; rather, differentiated infected ISCs become contaminated enterocytes. Infection refers to an active process whereas contamination refers to a state.

      (e) Proliferation: rather use the term replication.

      According to our US-English dictionary, proliferation refers to the “rapid reproduction of a cell, part, or organism”, which is the meaning we intend. Replication does not have this notion of speed of reproduction.

      (f) Drosophila should not be italicized in Drosophila A virus, following the ICTV convention that a "virus name should never be italicized, even when it includes the name of a host species or genus" https://ictv.global/faq/names.

      Done.

      (26) Line 873-975: please rephrase the legend of Figure 1F as the current one is not informative.

      Done.

      (27) Line 934: I suggest moving the justification of the time point chosen "= LT50 on the survival test in 935 Fig. 2E" to the main text.

      Done.

      (28) Line 936: with drop > with a drop.

      No longer relevant.

      (29) Line 940-941: the grammar of the sentence does not seem to be correct as it suggests that SDS induces Diptericin expression.

      No longer relevant.

      (30) Line 952-953; line 980: please correct mismatch singular/plural (antibody have, inhibition do).

      Done.

      (31) Line 422: "It will be interesting to determine whether the absence of a Dcr2 fluorescent proteins fusions in progenitor cells that we report in this study rules out a role for the RNAi pathway in intestinal host defense against the Nora virus". It would be of interest to discuss this finding in the context that virus-derived Nora virus siRNAs can be easily detected and that the viruses encode an RNAi antagonist (doi: 10.1371/journal.ppat.1002872).

      Done. We have updated the Discussion and propose a model whereby RNAi would prevent primary infection of enterocytes and then virus replication in proliferating progenitor cells would allow the virus to effectively inhibit the RNAi machinery when the infected progenitor cells become enterocytes.

      (32) Line 159: Nora virus phenotypes differ between laboratories. I would be interested to read the authors' speculations on why this would be the case.

      Our work shows that the effects of Nora virus depend significantly on several parameters we have identified: nutrition quality, age, exposure to abiotic or biotic stresses, and fly genotypes with the existence of Nora-refractory strains. These parameters as well as potential differences between laboratories are actually discussed in the second paragraph of the Discussion.

      (32) Line 175: capitalization of ORE-R vs Ore-R at other places in the manuscript.

      Done.

      (33) Line 185-194: PA14 and Pseudomonas are used interchangeably. Perhaps it is clearer to stick to a single term for consistency.

      PA14 is one clinical strain used to study P. aeruginosa. There are many others such as PAO1, which is also widely used. We have decided to write P. aeruginosa PA14 the first time we are using it in each figure legend, and use only PA14 afterwards.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      The claim that Dcr2 is not abundant in ISCs because the protein is not stable is logically consistent and reasonable. Perhaps I missed this, but the authors could additionally knock down or use somatic CRISPR to delete Dcr2 in ISCs to test whether a lack of Dcr2 underlies sensitivity. In this experiment, the expectation would be that depleting Dcr2 in ISCs genetically would make little difference to susceptibility overall compared to controls. This is not an essential experiment request.

      We agree with the reviewer that these would be interesting experiments to perform. However, we are currently unable to perform additional experiments and leave it to other interested investigators studying antiviral innate immunity to address these questions dealing with the specific steps of RNA interference that may be missing in progenitor cells.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      (1) Line 206-207 and 214-216: the order of ideas presented here is unintuitive. In Lines 206207, it is said that ABX treatment had no effect, which is counterintuitive to the nature of infection susceptibility. But this is resolved in Lines 214-216 when the reader realizes that S3G is fed on a sucrose solution, and so likely microbiota-depleted. Perhaps more could be said to clarify this in the main text, and/or swap the order of these observations so a casual reader is not confused about the nature and extent of the microbiota contributing to the sensitivity of Nora-infected flies.

      As suggested by the reviewer, we have clarified the text with respect to the food source and microbiota load; we emphasize that the microbiota plays a protective role in Nora-negative flies fed on sucrose solution even though the microbiota load is very low under these conditions. Of note, the microbiota is not depleted in sucrose-fed Nora-positive flies: we suspect that delaminating enterocytes may actually provide directly or more likely indirectly (peritrophic matrix) nutrients for the microbiota.

      (2) Line 262-265: the text may be a bit exaggerated given only 3 pathogens tested, one of which was a fungal natural infection breaching the cuticle and largely bypassing the gut. This could be re-phrased.

      The important point is that uninfected Nora-positive flies die with a LT50 of about 10 days even when noninfected; it has nothing to do with the number of pathogens tested. Thus, any infection that causes death with kinetics in this range may be misinterpreted in the absence of a relevant uninjured or clean injury control.

      (3) Line 379-382: I don't know if citing Schissel et al. is needed here. This paper's methods and data are highly problematic, as mentioned by the authors. This is not a highly cited paper, nor does it add value to the present discussion to cite it only to discredit it. Perhaps this can be left out and the field can move on quietly - naturally, this choice is the present authors', and this is just my view.

      We have actually cited this article at two other places and thus had not cited it “only to discredit it”. We have nevertheless removed the lines as suggested by the reviewer.

      (4) Line 404: perhaps clarify "Interestingly, mammalian stem cells..."

      Done.

      (5) Line 455: my understanding of digital PCR is that it is highly useful for detecting rare variants but not particularly better than qPCR for estimating loads/titres? This is not to say dPCR is worse, just that dPCR and primer-specific RT + qPCR are comparable if load/titre is desired. For instance, Qiagen actually recommends qPCR over dPCR specifically (and pretty much exclusively) for gene expression: https://www.qiagen.com/us/applications/digitalpcr/beginners/dpcr-vs-qpcr.

      (6) Perhaps Line 455 could drop the advocacy for digital PCR? I agree using dissected guts, or seemingly aged individuals per Figure 3B(?), is a valuable thing to point out. Maybe the aged individuals point could be added here? I guess the idea behind dissected guts is to have samples enriched in Nora virus.

      Cleaning Nora-positive strains is really difficult and we suspect that as long as there is one viral particle left, it may be sufficient to re-ignite the contamination of the strain. Our own experience with digital PCR on the expression of AMP-like molecules in the head of flies is that we found the approach to be more sensitive than classical RTqPCR (Xu et al., EMBO Rep, 2023).

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Public Reviews:

      We thank the editors and the reviewers for their constructive feedback in helping us strengthen this manuscript.

      During the revision process, new information was shared with us by the 10x Genomics team regarding the Xenium probe sequences evaluated in our original paper. Briefly, the Xenium probe sequences we evaluated represented an earlier iteration of the probes used to generate the data in Janesick et al. Further, we were made aware that the probe sequences used in Janesick et al. represented an earlier iteration of the commercially available Xenium v1 Human Breast Gene Expression Panel. We now elaborate further in a new Supplementary Note. We have therefore updated the paper throughout to reflect this new understanding, though we emphasize that our conclusions do not change. Rather, this newfound understanding provides stronger evidence of off-target probe binding with imperfect sequence matching, which we support with new supplementary figures.

      (1) Limited evaluation of tissues and gene panels

      “The results were only tested with one tissue (human breast). However, this is not a major weakness, as one can easily extrapolate that this should be the case for any other tissue.”

      “Does not apply the OPT method to the most widely used Xenium gene panels (e.g., pan-Human, pan-Mouse panels with ~5,000 genes each).”

      “The authors claim that OPT is a generalizable method for identifying off-target probes. To support this claim, they should provide similar predictions for the Xenium Pan-Human or Pan-Mouse gene panels, which are more widely used than the breast cancer panel.”

      “While I understand that conducting new experimental studies is likely beyond the authors' intended scope of the manuscript, the narrow reliance on Janesick et al. for all of the validation makes it difficult to assess the broad usability of OPT. In the absence of designing and then validating novel padlock probe designs with OPT, are there other publicly available datasets that authors could perform secondary analysis on using OPT?”

      Our primary focus on breast cancer was driven by data availability rather than tissue specificity. For this probe panel, matched Xenium, Visium, and scRNA-seq datasets are publicly available, enabling direct cross-platform comparisons of gene expression and allowing us to evaluate the impact of off-target probe binding in Xenium.

      OPT is tissue-agnostic and can be applied to any probe panel regardless of tissue type. To demonstrate this generalizability, we have now applied OPT on all publicly available 10x Genomics probe sets beyond the breast panel, including the Xenium pan-Human and pan-Mouse gene panels. The complete results of these analyses have been generated and are provided as a compressed zip file accompanying the revised manuscript.

      Beyond pre-designed panels, in this revision, we have now also applied OPT to custom Xenium gene panels from the Human BioMolecular Atlas Program (HUBMAP) and further demonstrate integration of HUBMAP RNA-seq data to evaluate the impact of potential predicted off-targets in a new section “Bulk RNA-seq reference atlases suggest off-target binding can variably impact results in Xenium custom probe panels.”

      Overall, in these newly evaluated panels, we identify many cases of off-target probe binding with non-negligible expression of off-target genes in the target tissue, underscoring that our findings are not specific to human breast tissue. Therefore, in the revision, we have broadened the title to “Evidence of off-target probe binding affecting 10x Genomics Xenium Gene Panels compromise accuracy of spatial transcriptomic profiling”

      (2) Limited quantifications

      “Lacks clarity on how the confidence level of off-target predictions is calculated.”

      “How can the confidence level of these off-target predictions be quantitatively assessed? Please provide benchmarks or validation metrics if available.”

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. To strengthen our claim that predicted off-targets can contribute to observed Xenium expression patterns, we incorporated a quantitative assessment in addition to the qualitative comparisons presented previously. Specifically, we leveraged Visium and scRNA-seq data to compare spot- and cluster-level expression of target genes alone versus expression aggregated with their predicted off-target genes. Across all examples shown, inclusion of predicted off-targets consistently resulted in stronger agreement with the Xenium results, as reflected by decreased RMSE and increased Pearson correlation relative to using the target gene alone.

      We emphasize, however, that OPT does not assign a formal confidence score to off-target predictions based on sequencing data alone. Importantly, identification of a potential off-target by OPT does not imply that it will necessarily affect Xenium results. As we’ve noted, if the off-target gene is not expressed, then it will not affect the observed gene expression magnitudes of the target gene. To help users assess whether predicted off-target genes will affect observed gene expression magnitudes of the target gene for a tissue of interest, we now provide a complementary analysis, including heat-map visualizations comparing the expression of target genes and their predicted off-targets in matched bulk RNA-seq or scRNA-seq datasets from the same tissue (Supplementary Figures 9, 10, 11). We hope this evaluation pipeline will clarify to researchers they can evaluate whether predicted off-targets will appreciably affect results in their tissue of interest.

      (3) Under-developed and non-essential software

      “The manuscript section on the software tool feels underdeveloped.”

      “Once the 10X Genomics corrects their gene panels according to this finding, the tool (OPT) will not be useful for most people. Still, it can be used by those who want to design de novo probes from scratch.”

      “Since the authors claim that OPT is intended for community use, the paper should provide a clear, step-by-step user guide, such as Jupyter tutorial, ideally as supplementary material.”

      We agree with the reviewers that the description of the software tool itself is relatively concise. This is intentional, as the primary goal of this manuscript is not to introduce a standalone software framework, but rather to use the tool as a means to characterize and quantify off-target probe binding and its potential downstream impact on spatial gene expression analyses. Accordingly, our emphasis is placed on the biological and analytical insights enabled by this approach, rather than on extensive software tool details. To support potential users, we have now included additional software documented with an example Python notebook demonstrating how it can be applied to any probe panels in the GitHub repository: https://github.com/JEFworks-Lab/off-target-probe-tracker/blob/main/example.ipynb

      Likewise, the primary goal of this manuscript is not to suggest that a specific vendor’s probe panels are flawed, but rather to demonstrate that off-target probe binding is a general and underappreciated phenomenon that can occur in some probe-based spatial transcriptomics platforms to meaningfully impact downstream analyses and biological interpretation.

      OPT was developed as a framework to identify potential off-target probe interactions based on sequence homology. In practice, OPT can serve as a post hoc tool that allows researchers to assess whether predicted off-target interactions may exist in a given panel and to account for these possibilities when interpreting spatial expression patterns, even when panels have been developed by the many probe designing methods now highlighted in the revised manuscript. Given the complexity of probe design and hybridization behavior, we believe that explicitly identifying and reporting potential off-targets remains valuable for downstream data interpretation, cross platform comparisons, and reproducibility. Thus, OPT is intended to complement existing probe design strategies and vendor efforts, rather than replace them, by providing researchers with additional context to interpret their data more accurately.

      In our revision, we have therefore elaborated on this in the discussion, reiterated here for convenience: “Although we focus here on the 10x Genomics Xenium technology, we do not exclude the possibility that off-target binding may similarly affect other probe-based gene detection approaches from other commercial vendors. Any technology that relies on hybridization-based detection is inherently susceptible to off-target probe binding when sequence similarity exists. Further, hybridization-based detection often inherently involves a trade-off between sensitivity and specificity. Given these inherent technological limitations, we therefore emphasize the importance of transparency through sharing probe sequences. However, many companies do not release the probe sequences used in their assays, limiting the consumer’s ability to fully interpret their results as well as the community’s ability to effectively characterize and benchmark performance variation across platforms. Therefore, we strongly recommend that companies publish probe sequences for pre-designed panels and likewise that researchers using these technologies should obtain and publish probe sequences used in their studies to support transparent and reproducible science. “

      Recommendations for the authors:

      “The paper only describes evidence of the off-target effect based on perfect sequence homology, although the tool (OPT) provides an option to find additional "potential" off-targets that allow mismatches. It would be very nice if the authors could additionally provide at least one example of off-target binding with at least one mismatch.”

      We thank the reviewer for the opportunity to clarify this point. In addition to analyses based on perfect sequence homology, we examined predicted off-target binding when allowing mismatches at the terminal ends of probe sequences. This analysis is presented in the Results section titled “OPT results when allowing mismatches at the terminal ends of the probe sequences identifies additional off-target candidates.”

      In this revision, we now allowed a 10bp padding on either end of the 40bp probe sequence, permitting imperfect sequence matching at the terminal regions. Under these conditions, OPT identified additional off-target candidates, including TUBB2B and ACTG2, which we highlight as representative examples (Supplementary 7,8). We further demonstrate how these predicted off-target interactions impact gene expression concordance by comparing Xenium measurements with both Visium and scRNA-seq data, showing measurable changes in cross-platform agreement. Together, these results illustrate that allowing mismatches reveals biologically relevant off-target effects beyond those captured by perfect sequence homology alone.

      “Clarifications and updates for Figure 2A-B

      Xenium offers a resolution of up to 200 nanometers with continuous readout, without pixel gaps. However, the figures shown in Figure 2A-B appear pixelated - why is this the case? Could the authors clarify this discrepancy and, if possible, provide the raw feature intensity data for Xenium in the supplementary materials?

      Additionally, there appear to be no visible gaps in the Visium graphs. Could the authors update the figure panels to represent the true spot locations for Visium, to more accurately reflect the underlying data structure?”

      We thank the reviewer for the opportunity to clarify these points. The goal of Figure 2A-B is to facilitate a direct visual comparison of gene expression patterns between the Visium and Xenium platforms. To enable this comparison, we aggregated the single-cell Xenium data into spatial patches matching the effective resolution of Visium spots (55x55µm). Similarly, Visium spots were rendered as patches to produce a more continuous visual representation. As a result of this aggregation and visualization choice, the Xenium expression plots appear pixelated despite Xenium’s native subcellular resolution (up to ~200 nm with continuous readout). We have clarified this processing and visualization step in the Methods to avoid confusion.

      With respect to the Visium expression plots, the lack of gaps is also a consequence of rendering each spot as a filled patch rather than plotting traditional Visium spots. This was done intentionally to maintain visual consistency with the aggregated Xenium data and to emphasize spatial concordance rather than the underlying sampling geometry. We have now explicitly stated this design choice to improve clarity.

      “I found the format of the manuscript to be at times confusing and perhaps a bit of an odd fit for a general interest journal. A significant portion of the manuscript is spent critiquing a specific publication, "High resolution mapping of the tumor microenvironment using integrated single-cell, spatial and in situ analysis" published by Janesick et al. (of 10x Genomics, Inc.) in Nature Communications in 2023. This content would seem more appropriate as a Comment submitted to Nature Communications, potentially to be accompanied by a response from the authors of Janesick et al. at 10x.”

      I would like to address this important point as the corresponding author who takes primary responsibility for the unconventional decision to submit this manuscript to eLife as opposed to as a commentary suggested by the reviewer.

      Consistent with the reviewer, I did initially consider submitting this as a Matters Arising to Nature Communications. However, after consultation with other senior colleagues and co-authors, I decided to forgo this route on the basis that the information provided in a Matters Arising must be kept confidential. I was concerned that this would lead to long, drawn-out private exchanges. As we note in the manuscript, the Xenium platform's widespread use and high cost imposed a certain urgency that I believed warranted open and rapid dissemination.

      Therefore, we submitted to eLife with the hope that eLife’s unique continuous post-publication public peer review process will enable the rapid dissemination of these important financially-sensitive insights while permitting constructive criticisms from both industry and academic expert reviewers to be openly considered by all readers.

    1. Author Response:

      (1) Clarification of the distinction between resting-state trait measures and ongoing neural dynamics

      All the Reviewers commented that this study provides a useful characterization of the relationship between trait-based resting-state neural dynamics and behavioral measures. At the same time, we agree that including ongoing EEG dynamics during task performance would have added important complementary information. In particular, task-related EEG would allow a more direct characterization of the relationship between ongoing neural activity and behavioral indices at the single trial level, thereby helping to clarify the role of ongoing neural dynamics in evidence accumulation and perceptual decision-making. It would also enable testing how pre-stimulus alpha oscillations and aperiodic activity dynamically influence temporal integration, serial dependence, and confidence on a trial-by-trial basis.

      However, we would like to emphasize that the primary aim of the present study was to investigate trait-level resting-state neural dynamics, which are known to be relatively stable and consistent within individuals, such as individual alpha frequency (e.g., Grandy et al., 2013; Wiesman & Wilson, 2019; Gray & Emmanouil, 2020) and aperiodic neural dynamics (Demuru and Fraschini, 2020; Pathania et al., 2021; Euler et al., 2024), and to examine whether these stable neural characteristics predict behavioral measures indexing temporal perception. Accordingly, the present study was designed to address how stable individual differences in resting-state neural dynamics shape temporal performance, rather than within-task neural fluctuations during the temporal task. We agree that combining resting-state and task-related EEG would be a valuable direction for future work, but this lies beyond the scope of the current dataset, as EEG was not recorded during task performance. Furthermore, we agree with the Reviewers that some of the wording in the Discussion can be clarified to emphasize the trait-level, rather than trial-level, nature of the task and potential interpretations.

      Additionally, we agree that the relationship between eyes-open (EO) and eyes-closed (EC) resting-state EEG, and their differential associations with behavior, warrants further discussion. In our data, EO resting-state activity emerged as a stronger predictor of behavioral performance than EC. Conceptually, resting-state EO and EC should not be considered interchangeable measures of the same underlying neural activity, but rather as related yet distinct brain states, with overlapping neural generators expressed under different state constraints. EC is typically associated with stronger posterior alpha activity and a more internally oriented mode, whereas EO reflects a more visually engaged and vigilant state, closer to the conditions under which perceptual judgments are formed. This may explain why, in our findings, brain–behavior associations are more evident in EO, consistent with the greater similarity between the EO condition and the task context. In this sense, EO may emphasize exteroceptive processing and visual readiness, whereas EC reflects a more internally oriented configuration. This difference in functional weighting could account for the stronger behavioral correlations observed in EO in the present study. The distinction between these resting states has been emphasized in previous EEG and neuroimaging work showing differences in power, topography, and large-scale network organization (e.g., Marx et al., 2004). Additionally, these state-related differences may reflect physiological changes related to sensory processing (El Boustani et al., 2009) and arousal (Lendner et al., 2020). Accordingly, the present dissociation may arise because EO provides a resting-state measure that is more proximal to the sensory and excitability conditions engaged during task performance (for similar findings, see also Deodato and Melcher, 2024). However, we agree with the reviewers that further clarification of these state-related differences is warranted. In the revised manuscript, we will (i) expand the Discussion to more clearly articulate the conceptual distinction between EO and EC and their expected links to perceptual and confidence measures, (ii) systematically describe EO–EC differences across all EEG measures analyzed, and (iii) quantify the relationship between EO and EC indices to directly assess the extent to which they share trait-like variance across individuals.

      In the revised manuscript, we will clarify these points by adjusting the text, strengthening the conceptual framing, and expanding the Discussion, including a more detailed outline of future research directions.

      (2) Functional interpretation of psychometric measures

      The Reviewers raised an important point regarding the interpretation of the psychometric parameters investigated in our study. In particular, we agree that the slope of a binary psychometric function does not provide a direct measure of sensory temporal resolution or perceptual sensitivity, and that our original wording may have overstated this interpretation. Rather, the slope reflects the steepness of the transition between response categories and indexes overall behavioural variability, which can arise from multiple sources, including variability in sensory encoding, decision criteria, and occasional response errors (e.g., Wichmann and Hill 2001; Prins 2012).

      We therefore agree that interpreting steeper slopes as necessarily reflecting “temporal precision” may be overly specific, and that there are other possible interpretations. In the revised manuscript, we will adopt more cautious terminology and describe the slope more generally as indexing behavioral variability in the transition between perceptual reports, which may reflect a combination of sensory and decisional factors. Importantly, our results demonstrate robust relationships between neural measures and the consistency or sharpness of perceptual categorization, rather than uniquely isolating sensory temporal resolution. While, in standard psychophysical frameworks, the slope is related to internal variability in the sensory representation, this relationship depends on model assumptions and does not uniquely isolate sensory precision (e.g., Prins, 2016). Following the reviewers’ suggestion, we will also refine our psychometric modeling by incorporating a lapse parameter. We agree with the Reviewer that accounting for occasional stimulus-independent errors (e.g., lapses) can improve parameter estimation and prevent biases in slope and threshold estimates when lapse rates are implicitly fixed to zero (Wichmann & Hill, 2001). In the revised manuscript, we will therefore (i) clarify the terminology used to describe psychometric parameters and (ii) report additional analyses including lapse rates.

      In addition, we agree that complementary modeling approaches could help disentangle perceptual and decisional contributions to the observed effects by providing access to latent parameters of perceptual decision-making. For example, within a signal detection framework, one could test whether EEG measures relate to perceptual sensitivity versus decision criterion, while sequential sampling models such as the diffusion model (e.g., Ratcliff and McKoon, 2008) could assess whether neural measures are associated with parameters such as drift rate, decision boundary, starting bias, or trial-to-trial variability. However, several characteristics of the present paradigm limit the direct applicability of these approaches. First, the task relies on a continuous manipulation of sensory evidence across stimulus durations (ISIs), and behavioral responses are summarized through psychometric functions rather than modeled at the single-trial level. As a result, the current framework does not provide direct access to trial-by-trial latent decision variables required by these models. Second, reaction times were not collected, which constrains the application of sequential sampling models that rely on joint modeling of accuracy and response times. Finally, while the task involves categorical judgments (integration vs. segregation), it does not include explicit signal-absent or catch trials, which can help constrain sensitivity and criterion estimates within classical signal detection formulations. Despite these limitations, we agree that these approaches could still provide useful insights. In the revised manuscript, we will explore whether alternative modeling approaches (e.g., signal detection-based metrics or Bayesian psychometric modeling) can help further characterize the contributions of perceptual sensitivity, decision criterion, and response variability to our behavioral measures. While these analyses will necessarily remain exploratory given the structure of the current dataset, they may provide initial insights into whether the observed effects reflect perceptual or decisional dynamics. A more definitive dissociation, however, is beyond the scope of the present study and will be an important direction for future work.

      (3) Control analyses and robustness of EEG–behavior relationships

      The Reviewers raised interesting points regarding the interpretation of our control analyses and the potential influence of stimulus structure on the observed EEG–behavior relationships. We agree that these aspects require clarification and additional analyses to strengthen the robustness of our findings.

      First, regarding the control analyses across frequency bands, we acknowledge that while our main analyses appropriately dissociate oscillatory and aperiodic components using spectral parameterization, the control analyses were based on conventional band-power measures. As correctly noted by the reviewers, band-limited power estimates can be influenced by the aperiodic background, which complicates the interpretation of null effects in the other frequency bands. In the revised manuscript, we will address this issue by extending our spectral parameterization approach to these control analyses. Specifically, we will recompute band-specific measures after removing the aperiodic component, allowing a clearer comparison across frequency bands and a more robust assessment of the specificity of alpha-related effects. Preliminary analyses suggest that these updated results are likely to be consistent with our initial findings, thereby reinforcing the robustness of the reported effects.

      Another important point raised by the reviewers concerns the temporal structure of the stimulus stream. We agree that the continuous alternation of Gabor stimuli at varying durations introduces quasi-periodic stimulation rates that may induce entrainment of neural oscillations. Notably, some inter-stimulus intervals correspond to frequencies within the alpha range, which raises the possibility that the observed relationship between resting alpha frequency and integration thresholds may not solely reflect intrinsic sampling speed, but could also be influenced by the degree of alignment between an individual’s alpha rhythm and the temporal structure of the stimulus. As highlighted in prior work (e.g., Gulbinaite et al., 2017; Keitel et al., 2019; Gallina et al., 2023; Duecker et al., 2024), rhythmic stimulation in the alpha range can interact with intrinsic alpha oscillations and modulate both neural and perceptual processing. Although our study does not include EEG recordings during task performance and therefore cannot directly assess stimulus-locked responses or neural entrainment, we agree that this factor should be explicitly considered in the interpretation of our findings. To address this point, in the revised manuscript we will perform additional control analyses to assess the robustness of the observed relationships while accounting for potential rhythmic stimulation confounds. Specifically, we will explore whether the strength of behavioral effects and their relationship with EEG measures depends on the alignment between each participant’s individual alpha frequency and the effective stimulation rate induced by the stimulus presentation. In addition, we will test whether the association between resting-state alpha frequency and behavioral measures is disproportionately driven by stimulus durations corresponding to alpha-range temporal frequencies. These analyses will help determine whether the observed effects primarily reflect intrinsic sampling properties or are modulated by resonance-like interactions between endogenous rhythms and stimulus timing. We will also address all additional recommendations raised by the reviewers in the revised manuscript.

      References

      Demuru, M., & Fraschini, M. (2020). EEG fingerprinting: Subject-specific signature based on the aperiodic component of power spectrum. Computers in Biology and Medicine, 120, 103748.

      Deodato, M., & Melcher, D. (2024). Correlations between visual temporal resolution and individual alpha peak frequency: Evidence that internal and measurement noise drive null findings. Journal of Cognitive Neuroscience, 36(4), 590-601.

      Duecker, K., Doelling, K. B., Breska, A., Coffey, E. B., Sivarao, D. V., & Zoefel, B. (2024). Challenges and Approaches in the Study of Neural Entrainment. Journal of Neuroscience, 44(40).

      El Boustani, S., Marre, O., Béhuret, S., Baudot, P., Yger, P., Bal, T., ... & Frégnac, Y. (2009). Network-state modulation of power-law frequency-scaling in visual cortical neurons. PLoS computational biology, 5(9), e1000519.

      Euler, M. J., Vehar, J. V., Guevara, J. E., Geiger, A. R., Deboeck, P. R., & Lohse, K. R. (2024). Associations between the resting EEG aperiodic slope and broad domains of cognitive ability. Psychophysiology, 61(6), e14543.

      Gallina, J., Marsicano, G., Romei, V., & Bertini, C. (2023). Electrophysiological and Behavioral Effects of Alpha-Band Sensory Entrainment: Neural Mechanisms and Clinical Applications. Biomedicines, 11(5), 1399.

      Grandy, T. H., Werkle‐Bergner, M., Chicherio, C., Schmiedek, F., Lövdén, M., & Lindenberger, U. (2013). Peak individual alpha frequency qualifies as a stable neurophysiological trait marker in healthy younger and older adults. Psychophysiology, 50(6), 570-582.

      Gray, M. J., & Emmanouil, T. A. (2020). Individual alpha frequency increases during a task but is unchanged by alpha‐band flicker. Psychophysiology, 57(2), e13480.

      Gulbinaite, R., Van Viegen, T., Wieling, M., Cohen, M. X., & VanRullen, R. (2017). Individual alpha peak frequency predicts 10 Hz flicker effects on selective attention. Journal of Neuroscience, 37(42), 10173-10184.

      Keitel, C., Keitel, A., Benwell, C. S., Daube, C., Thut, G., & Gross, J. (2019). Stimulus-driven brain rhythms within the alpha band: The attentional-modulation conundrum. Journal of Neuroscience, 39(16), 3119-3129.

      Lendner, J. D., Helfrich, R. F., Mander, B. A., Romundstad, L., Lin, J. J., Walker, M. P., ... & Knight, R. T. (2020). An electrophysiological marker of arousal level in humans. elife, 9, e55092.

      Marx, E., Deutschländer, A., Stephan, T., Dieterich, M., Wiesmann, M., & Brandt, T. (2004). Eyes open and eyes closed as rest conditions: impact on brain activation patterns. Neuroimage, 21(4), 1818-1824.

      Pathania, A., Euler, M. J., Clark, M., Cowan, R. L., Duff, K., & Lohse, K. R. (2022). Resting EEG spectral slopes are associated with age-related differences in information processing speed. Biological Psychology, 168, 108261.

      Prins, N. (2012). The psychometric function: The lapse rate revisited. Journal of Vision, 12(6), 25-25.

      Prins, N. (2016). Psychophysics: a practical introduction. Academic Press.

      Ratcliff, R., & McKoon, G. (2008). The diffusion decision model: theory and data for two-choice decision tasks. Neural computation, 20(4), 873-922.

      Wichmann, F. A., & Hill, N. J. (2001). The psychometric function: I. Fitting, sampling, and goodness of fit. Perception & psychophysics, 63(8), 1293-1313.

      Wiesman, A. I., & Wilson, T. W. (2019). Alpha frequency entrainment reduces the effect of visual distractors. Journal of cognitive neuroscience, 31(9), 1392-1403.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      eLife Assessment

      This important study presents convincing evidence that uncovers a novel signaling axis impacting the post-mating response in females of the brown planthopper. The findings open several avenues for testing the molecular and neurobiological mechanisms of mating behavior in insects, although broad concerns remain about the relevance of some claims.

      Thank you very much for your letter and the insightful, valuable comments from the reviewers on our manuscript. These suggestions have been instrumental in strengthening the quality and clarity of our work. We have carefully addressed each concern, performed additional experiments, revised the relevant sections thoroughly, and made extensive refinements to the Discussion to clarify future research directions. Below is our detailed point-by-point response.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      In this work, Zhang et al, through a series of well-designed experiments, present a comprehensive study exploring the roles of the neuropeptide Corazonin (CRZ) and its receptor in controlling the female post-mating response (PMR) in the brown planthopper (BPH) Nilaparvata lugen and Drosophila melanogaster. Through a series of behavioural assays, micro-injections, gene knockdowns, Crispr/Cas gene editing, and immunostaining, the authors show that both CRZ and CrzR play a vital role in the female post-mating response, with impaired expression of either leading to quicker female remating and reduced ovulation in BPH. Notably, the authors find that this signaling is entirely endogenous in BPH females, with immunostaining of male accessory glands (MAGs) showing no evidence of CRZ expression. Further, the authors demonstrate that while CRZ is not expressed in the MAGs, BPH males with Crz knocked out show transcriptional dysregulation of several seminal fluid proteins and functionally link this dysregulation to an impaired PMR in BPH. In relation, the authors also find that in CrzR mutants, the injection of neither MAG extracts nor maccessin peptide triggered the PMR in BPH females. Finally, the authors extend this study to D. melanogaster, albeit on a more limited scale, and show that CRZ plays a vital role in maintaining PMR in D. melanogaster females with impaired CRZ signaling, once again leading to quicker female remating and reduced ovulation. The authors must be commended for their expansive set of complementary experiments. The manuscript is also generally well written. Given the seemingly conserved nature of CRZ, this work is a significant addition to the literature, opening several avenues for testing the molecular and neurobiological mechanisms in which CRZ triggers the PMR.

      However, there are some broad concerns/comments I had with this manuscript. The authors provide clear evidence that CRZ signaling plays a major role in the PMR of D. melanogaster, however, they provide no evidence that CRZ signaling is endogenous, as they did not check for expression in the MAGs of D. melanogaster males. Additionally, while the authors show that manipulating Crz in males leads to dysregulated seminal fluid expression and impaired PMR in BPH, the authors also find that CRZ injection in males in and of itself impairs PMR in BPH. The authors do not really address what this seemingly contradictory result could mean. While a lot of the figures have replicate numbers, the authors do not factor in replicate as an effect into their models, which they ideally should do. Finally, while the discussion is generally well-written, it lacks a broader conclusion about the wider implications of this study and what future work building on this could look like.

      Thank you very much for your insightful and valuable comments on our manuscript. We have carefully addressed each of your concerns, revised the relevant sections thoroughly, and conducted additional experiments to further strengthen our conclusions. To better focus on the core finding of this study, the critical role of Crz/CrzR signaling in regulating the post-mating response (PMR) of female brown planthoppers (BPH), and to eliminate potential confusion associated with the male-related data, we have removed the experiments investigating CRZ function in males from the current version of the manuscript. These observations on male CRZ signaling will be explored in greater depth and presented as a standalone study in a separate manuscript in the future.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The work presented by Zhang and coauthors in this manuscript presents the study of the neuropeptide corazonin in modulating the post-mating response of the brown planthopper, with further validation in Drosophila melanogaster. To obtain their results, the authors used several different techniques that orthogonally demonstrate the involvement of corazonin signalling in regulating the female post-mating response in these species.

      They first injected synthetic corazonin peptide into female brown planthoppers, showing altered mating receptivity in virgin females and a higher number of eggs laid after mating. The role of corazonin in controlling these post-mating traits has been further validated by knocking down the expression of the corazonin gene by RNA interference and through CRISPR-Cas9 mutagenesis of the gene. Further proof of the importance of corazonin signalling in regulating the female post-mating response has been achieved by knocking down the expression or mutagenizing the gene coding for the corazonin receptor.

      Similar results have been obtained in the fruit fly Drosophila melanogaster, suggesting that corazonin signalling is involved in controlling the female post-mating response in multiple insect species.

      Notably, the authors also show that corazonin controls gene expression in the male accessory glands and that disruption of this pathway in males compromises their ability to elicit normal post-mating responses in their mates.

      Strengths:

      The study of the signalling pathways controlling the female post-mating response in insects other than Drosophila is scarce, and this limits the ability of biologists to draw conclusions about the evolution of the post-mating response in female insects. This is particularly relevant in the context of understanding how sexual conflict might work at the molecular and genetic levels, and how, ultimately, speciation might occur at this level. Furthermore, the study of the post-mating response could have practical implications, as it can lead to the development of control techniques, such as sterilization agents.

      The study, therefore, expands the knowledge of one of the signalling pathways that control the female post-mating response, the corazonin neuropeptide. This pathway is involved in controlling the post-mating response in both Nilaparvata lugens (the brown planthopper) and Drosophila melanogaster, suggesting its involvement in multiple insect species.

      The study uses multiple molecular approaches to convincingly demonstrate that corazonin controls the female post-mating response.

      Thank you very much for your valuable and insightful comments on our manuscript. We highly appreciate your recognition of the study’s value, including its focus on non-model insects, the evolutionary implications of corazonin signaling, and the rigorous use of multiple molecular techniques. We have carefully addressed your suggestions and revised the manuscript accordingly to enhance its clarity, accuracy, and depth. Below is our detailed response to your comments.

      Weaknesses:

      The data supporting the main claims of the manuscript are solid and convincing. The statistical analysis of some of the data might be improved, particularly by tailoring the analysis to the type of data that has been collected.

      Thank you for your valuable suggestion regarding statistical analysis. We fully agree that tailoring statistical methods to the specific type of data enhances the rigor and reliability of our findings.

      In response, we have comprehensively re-evaluated and revised the statistical analyses for all datasets in the manuscript:

      (1) For proportion-based data (e.g., female mating receptivity, re-mating rate), we replaced inappropriate tests (e.g., ANOVA) with chi-square tests for contingency tables, which are more suitable for comparing categorical variables.

      (2) For time-series data (e.g., receptivity at different time points post-injection), we adopted generalized linear models (GLM) with logit links followed by pairwise contrasts to address concerns of multiple testing, instead of hour-by-hour Mann-Whitney tests.

      (3) For continuous data (e.g., number of eggs laid, gene expression levels), we retained Student’s t-tests or one-way ANOVA after verifying normality, and used non-parametric tests (Mann-Whitney, Kruskal-Wallis) for non-normally distributed data.

      All revisions have been clearly described in the figure legends and Methods section, ensuring transparency and reproducibility. We believe these adjustments significantly improve the statistical robustness of our conclusions.

      In the case of the corazonin effect in females, all the data are coherent; in the case of CRISPR-Cas9-induced mutagenesis, the analysis of the behavioural trait in heterozygotes might have helped in understanding the haplosufficiency of the gene and would have further proved the authors' point.

      Thank you for this insightful suggestion. We fully agree that analyzing the behavioral traits of heterozygous mutants is crucial for understanding the haplosufficiency of the Crz and CrzR genes, and we regret overlooking this aspect in the initial submission.

      To address this gap, we have conducted additional behavioral assays using heterozygous Crz (+/ΔCrz) and CrzR (+/CrzR<sup>M</sup>) mutant females.

      (1) For re-mating receptivity: We found no significant differences in either re-mating rate or egg-laying output between +/ΔCrz females and wild-type females. By contrast, +/CrzR<sup>M</sup> females exhibited re-mating and oviposition phenotypes comparable to those of homozygous CrzR mutants, with no significant differences detected between these two genotypes.

      (2) These results indicate that the Crz loss-of-function phenotype is recessive, and that a single functional copy of Crz is sufficient to sustain a normal post-mating response (PMR), but the CrzR loss-of-function phenotype is dominant, and that a single functional copy of CrzR is insufficient to maintain a normal post-mating response.

      This supports our core conclusion that CRZ signaling is critical for mediating the female PMR, as even partial reduction of gene dosage impairs the response.

      The heterozygote data have been integrated into the revised manuscript, including updated figures (e.g., Figure 1J-K for Crz heterozygotes and Figure 3I-J for CrzR heterozygotes) and corresponding legends. We believe this addition strengthens the rigor of our genetic evidence and provides valuable insights into the gene dosage requirements for CRZ-mediated PMR regulation.

      Less consistency was achieved in males (Figure 5): the authors show that injection of CRZ and RNAi of crz, or mutant crz, has the same effect on male fitness. However, the CRZ injection should activate the pathway, and crz RNAi and mutant crz should inhibit the pathway, yet they have the same effect. A comment about this discrepancy would have improved the clarity of the manuscript, pointing to new points that need to be clarified and opening new scientific discussion.

      Thank you for highlighting this important discrepancy in the male-related CRZ signaling data. We fully acknowledge the inconsistency: CRZ injection (which was intended to activate the pathway) and Crz RNAi/mutagenesis (which was intended to inhibit the pathway) yielded similar effects on male fitness, and we regret not addressing this ambiguity in the initial submission.

      To resolve this confusion and refocus the current manuscript on its core objective—elucidating the role of endogenous CRZ/CrzR signaling in female post-mating response (PMR), we have removed all experiments, analyses, and discussions related to male CRZ function. This decision ensures that the manuscript maintains a clear, cohesive narrative centered on female reproductive physiology, as recommended by both reviewers and the editorial team.

      Regarding the observed discrepancy in males, we recognize its scientific significance and plan to investigate it thoroughly in a standalone follow-up study.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewing Editor Comments:

      The manuscript would be significantly strengthened by an explanation of the seemingly contradictory results obtained in males, where both CRZ injections and Crz silencing afford the same results. Additionally, Crz expression data in the MAGs of D. melanogaster males is necessary to support your conclusions of endogenous signaling in this species. Besides correcting several imprecisions and inconsistencies in the text and figures, to improve quality and accuracy, the abstract should be restructured and the discussion modified as recommended by reviewers.

      Thank you for your comprehensive letter and valuable guidance. We have carefully addressed all the points raised by the editorial team and reviewers, and the revised manuscript now incorporates substantial improvements to clarity, accuracy, and scientific rigor. Below is our detailed response to your specific requests:

      Contradictory Male-Related Results

      We fully acknowledge the importance of addressing the contradictory findings in male CRZ signaling, where both CRZ injection and Crz silencing/mutagenesis yielded similar effects on male fitness. To resolve this ambiguity and maintain the manuscript’s focus on its core objective, elucidating endogenous CRZ/CrzR signaling in the female post-mating response (PMR), we have removed all male-related experiments, analyses, and discussions from the revised manuscript. This decision ensures that the current work remains cohesive and centered on female reproductive physiology, as recommended by the reviewers.

      We recognize the scientific significance of the male-specific discrepancy and plan to investigate it in a standalone follow-up study in the near future.

      Crz expression data in D. melanogaster Male Accessory Glands (MAGs)

      To support our conclusion of endogenous CRZ signaling in D. melanogaster females, we have supplemented the manuscript with additional experiments verifying the absence of CRZ in male MAGs:

      (1) RT-PCR Analysis: We detected no Crz mRNA in dissected male MAGs, whereas Crz expression was confirmed in the male head (positive control).

      (2) Immunohistochemistry and GAL4 system: Using the GAL4–UAS system (Crz-Gal4/UAS-mCD8-GFP) to label CRZ-producing neurons, combined with anti-CRZ antibody staining, we observed no CRZ-specific signal in male MAGs.

      These results demonstrate that D. melanogaster male MAGs neither synthesize nor contain CRZ peptide, confirming that CRZ acts as an endogenous female signaling factor (rather than a male-transferred seminal fluid component) in this species. The new data are included in Figure 5H-I and described in the Results and Methods sections.

      Correction of Imprecisions and Inconsistencies

      We have systematically revised the manuscript to address text and figure inaccuracies:

      Text Revisions: Corrected typos (e.g., Line 854), standardized species names (replacing “Drosophila” with “D. melanogaster” throughout), removed redundant or inappropriate sentences, and refined terminology (e.g., replacing “expression” with “localization” for protein detection).

      Figure Corrections: Fixed inconsistent Y-axis labels and numerical ranges (e.g., aligning percentages/probabilities with appropriate scales), resolved color scheme confusion, standardized oviposition-related labels to “Per female egg numbers within 3 days,” and added details on sample sizes and replicates to all figure legends.

      Statistical Improvements: Re-evaluated statistical analyses for proportion-based datasets (applying chi-square tests for contingency tables) and time-series data (using generalized linear models to address multiple testing), with revised methods clearly described in the text and figure legends.

      Abstract Restructuring and Discussion Modification

      Abstract: We have restructured the abstract to group results thematically (rather than sequentially) for improved readability. The revised abstract emphasizes the core findings: CRZ/CrzR signaling is critical for female PMR in both N. lugens and D. melanogaster, acts endogenously in females, and is required for male seminal fluid factors to induce PMR. Male-related content has been removed since experimental data are deleted from the rest of the paper.

      Discussion: We have modified the discussion to include the evolutionary conservation of CRZ-mediated female PMR, the molecular and neurobiological implications of CRZ/CrzR signaling, and future research directions (e.g., dissecting downstream pathways in the female reproductive tract and brain). We have also reduced tangential content and clarified how our findings advance understanding of female endogenous signaling in PMR regulation. A new section was added at the end, which discusses outstanding questions related to CRZ and the PMR in both insect species.

      To both the above-mentioned sections and the Introduction we also added new text to emphasize that CRZ is a paralog of the vertebrate peptide gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH), a hormone known to regulate reproduction in vertebrates (including humans), thus suggesting conservation of an ancient role in reproduction.

      All revisions in the manuscript are highlighted in red for easy reference. We believe these changes significantly strengthen the study’s focus, clarity, and scientific impact. Thank you again for your time and consideration.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) The abstract could benefit from some restructuring. Right now, it reads like a sequential reporting of the results, but clumping together results thematically would make it easier to read, in my opinion. Also, see above re: my concerns about no evidence for the signal being endogenous in D. melanogaster.

      Thank you for your constructive suggestions regarding the abstract and the evidence for endogenous CRZ signaling in D. melanogaster. We fully agree with your feedback and have addressed both points thoroughly in the revised manuscript:

      (1) Abstract Restructuring

      We have restructured the abstract to group results thematically, rather than sequentially, to enhance readability and highlight the core findings. The revised abstract now organizes key information into three cohesive sections:

      The context and significance of female post-mating response (PMR) regulation, emphasizing the gap in understanding endogenous female signaling pathways.

      The core findings across both study species (Nilaparvata lugens and D. melanogaster), including the critical role of CRZ/CrzR signaling in suppressing re-mating and promoting oviposition, and its requirement for male seminal fluid factors to induce a PMR.

      The conclusion regarding the evolutionary conservation of endogenous CRZ signaling in female PMR, reinforcing the study’s broader implications.

      We also added new text to emphasize that CRZ is a paralog of the vertebrate peptide gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH), a hormone known to regulate reproduction in vertebrates (including humans), thus suggesting conservation of an ancient role in reproduction.

      This thematic structure eliminates the linear “result-by-result” narrative, making the abstract more concise and impactful while clearly communicating the study’s key contributions.

      (2) Evidence for Endogenous CRZ Signaling in female D. melanogaster

      To address your concern about the lack of evidence for endogenous signaling in female D. melanogaster, we have supplemented the manuscript with two sets of critical experiments confirming that CRZ is not derived from male accessory glands (MAGs) but acts endogenously in females:

      RT-PCR Analysis: We performed RT-PCR on dissected male MAGs, male heads (positive control), and female tissues. Results showed no detectable Crz mRNA in MAGs, confirming that males do not synthesize CRZ in this tissue.

      Immunohistochemical and Genetic Labeling: Using the GAL4–UAS system (Crz-Gal4/UAS-mCD8-GFP) to label Crz-expressing neurons, combined with anti-CRZ antibody labeling, we observed no crz/CRZ signal in male MAGs. This confirms that MAGs neither produce nor sequester mature CRZ peptide.

      These findings demonstrate that CRZ signaling in D. melanogaster females is endogenous, as the peptide cannot be transferred from males during copulation. The new data are presented in Figure 5H-I and described in the Results section, with corresponding methods detailed in the Methods section.

      The revised abstract integrates this new evidence to explicitly state the endogenous nature of CRZ signaling in both BPH and D. melanogaster females, aligning with the thematic structure and addressing your concerns comprehensively. We believe these changes significantly improve the clarity and rigor of the abstract and the manuscript overall.

      (2) The authors use Drosophila as a broad placeholder throughout the manuscript, while they are specifically referring to D. melanogaster in several places. I would go through the manuscript and switch with the appropriate Drosophila species/species'.

      Thank you for pointing out this important detail regarding species-specific terminology. We fully agree with your suggestion to ensure accuracy and consistency in referencing the Drosophila species studied.

      We have systematically reviewed the entire manuscript, including the abstract, introduction, results, discussion, methods, and figure legends, and revised all instances where the general term “Drosophila” was used. All references now explicitly specify “D. melanogaster” to accurately reflect the species utilized in our experiments.

      (3) For the figures, I think the number of replicates is a distracting addition to the plot. This is still useful information, but could instead be added in as a line/table, in my opinion.

      Thank you very much for your suggestion. We have added the information on the number of replicates and sample sizes to the corresponding figure legends, which we hope improves clarity and readability.

      (4) There are typos in the y-axis label of all of the oviposition figures. A better re-wording would be "Per female egg numbers within 3 days".

      Thank you very much for your suggestion. Following your recommendation, we have now standardized the Y-axis label for all oviposition-related figures to “Number of eggs per female within 3 days.”

      (5) In Figure 1B and Figure 1 - Supplement 3a, since the comparisons are solely between control vs treatment, I would not join means across treatments that I am not comparing.

      To address this, we have revised Figure 1B and Figure 1—Supplement 3a by removing the connecting lines between group means. The updated figures now display independent mean ± SEM values for each dose (Figure 1B) and time point (Figure 1—Supplement 3a), with significance markers only applied to the control vs. treatment comparisons we actually tested. This revision eliminates any implied relationships between non-comparative groups and ensures the data visualization aligns with our statistical approach. We appreciate the reviewer’s suggestion, which has improved the clarity of the data presentation.

      (6) The authors mention courtship rate in lines 511, but from a look at the methods, this is not the courtship rate! This is a measure of the number of males engaging in any form of courtship. Also, in Figure 5 Supplement 2A, it appears that under 1% of males are courting. This seems extremely low. Do the authors mean percentages? In that case, I would reformat from 0 to 100/relabel the y-axis.

      Thank you for your observation and valuable feedback on this terminology and figure presentation issue. We fully acknowledge the inaccuracies and have addressed them comprehensively:

      (1) Correction of "Courtship Rate" Terminology

      We agree that the term “courtship rate” in Line 511 was incorrect, as our measurement reflects the proportion of males engaging in any form of courtship (not a rate per unit time). However, since we have removed all male-related data (including this section and associated figures) from the revised manuscript to focus on the core finding of female post-mating response (PMR), this terminology error has been eliminated entirely.

      (2) Revision of Figure 5 Supplement 2A

      Consistent with the removal of all male-related experiments, Figure 5 and its supplementary materials (including Supplement 2A) have been excluded from the revised manuscript. This ensures the current work remains cohesive and centered on female PMR, while also resolving the Y-axis labeling ambiguity you identified.

      We appreciate your careful attention to these details, which helps enhance the accuracy and clarity.

      (7) It appears Figure 5A, 5D, and 5G are mislabeled? Aren't all rematings with wild-type males?

      Thank you for identifying this labeling inconsistency. You are absolutely correct, all re-mating assays in the original figures involved wild-type males, and the mislabeling was an oversight.

      However, we have removed Figure 5 (and its associated subpanels A, D, G) entirely from the revised manuscript, as part of our decision to exclude all male-related data.

      (8) I am not sure I understand why a 30-minute post-injection threshold was chosen and what this table means. Could the authors elaborate on the methodology here on how they quantified premature ejaculation?

      Thank you for your question regarding the 30-minute post-injection observation window and the methodology for quantifying premature ejaculation.

      While we have removed all male-related data (including the corresponding table and premature ejaculation analyses) from the revised manuscript to focus on our core finding, this is no longer included in the manuscript.

      (9) Line 29 - "distensible" seems an odd choice of word here.

      We have revised Line 29 and removed “distensible”. “Peptide injection and knockdown of CRZ expression by RNAi or CRISPR/Cas9-mediated mutagenesis demonstrate that CRZ signaling suppresses mating receptivity”.

      (10) Line 57 - delete "a" from "a post-mating response" and "A PMR" because the authors are referring to a very specific suite of post-mating behaviours.

      We have revised Line 57 (and other relevant instances throughout the manuscript) to delete the article "a" from these phrases.

      (11) Line 352, delete a from "and in a significantly".

      We have revised Line 356 to remove the extraneous "a", correcting the phrase to "and in significantly".

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The work presented in this manuscript presents the study of the neuropeptide corazonin in modulating the post-mating response of the brown planthopper, with further validation in Drosophila melanogaster. To obtain their results, the authors used several different techniques, including dsRNA injection to induce RNA interference and CRISPR-CAS9-mediated site-specific mutagenesis. The experimental design is appropriate; the results are solid and support the conclusion of the manuscript. Overall, the merit of the manuscript is to present compelling evidence that the female post-mating response is mediated by corazonin, at least in the analysed species. There are multiple reports in multiple insect species, indeed, that male factors, particularly those secreted by male accessory glands, induce post-mating response in females, but the female pathways underlying this phenomenon are poorly understood.

      There are points the authors can consider to improve the manuscript quality.

      Thank you for your generous and insightful assessment of our manuscript. We deeply appreciate your recognition of the study’s strengths, including the appropriate experimental design, solid results, and meaningful contribution to understanding female endogenous pathways in post-mating response (PMR) regulation.

      We have carefully incorporated all your constructive suggestions (e.g., statistical analysis revisions, figure label standardization, text refinements) to further strengthen the manuscript’s rigor and clarity. By focusing on corazonin (CRZ/corazonin receptor (CrzR) signaling in female brown planthoppers (Nilaparvata lugens) and validating these findings in Drosophila melanogaster, we aim to provide a conserved model for female endogenous PMR regulation across insect species.

      Thank you again for your thoughtful and supportive feedback, which has been instrumental in refining our work. We believe the revised manuscript now more effectively communicates the significance of CRZ-mediated female signaling in bridging the gap between male-derived cues and PMR execution.

      (1) Line 20: "optimal offspring". This is not a zoological parameter. One can use "optimal fitness".

      We have revised Line 20 to replace "optimal offspring" with "optimal fitness" as recommended.

      (2) Line 36-40: I think that the main message of the manuscript is the involvement of the corazonin pathway in controlling the female post-mating response. The involvement of corazonin in the male reproduction is also of note, but out of topic (in my opinion). The male corazonin is not transferred during mating from males to females, and the involvement of corazonin in controlling the gene expression in the MAGs is of note, but it is poorly related to the effect of corazonin in the female. I am not suggesting removing these data from the paper; they are important. But I do not find them that important to include them in the abstract, also because it confounds the reader at first. A similar statement can be made for the discussion (lines 728-745): making this the first piece of data commented on takes the stage, but this is not the main take-home message of the paper.

      Thank you for this suggestion. We fully agree that including male-related CRZ data in the abstract and leading the discussion with these results distracted from the primary focus and risked confounding readers. In fact, we also removed the entire section on the role of CRZ in males. We have addressed this issue comprehensively in the revised manuscript as follows:

      (1) Abstract Revision

      We have completely removed all content related to male CRZ function from the revised abstract. The updated abstract now exclusively emphasizes the core findings:

      The requirement of CRZ/CrzR signaling for mediating key female PMR traits (suppression of remating, promotion of oviposition) in both Nilaparvata lugens and Drosophila melanogaster;

      Experimental evidence confirming that CRZ acts as an endogenous female signaling factor (not a male-transferred molecule);

      The evolutionary conservation of CRZ-mediated female PMR regulation across the two insect species.

      We also added a comment on the evolutionary conservation of CRZ and GnRH signaling in reproduction.

      (2) Discussion Section Restructuring

      We have restructured the Discussion to prioritize the core message of female PMR regulation:

      Lead paragraph adjustment: Lines 728–745 (originally focusing on male CRZ and MAG gene expression) have been deleted.

      Revised opening focus: The Discussion now only contain a synthesis of our key findings on female CRZ signaling, including its molecular mechanisms, cross-species conservation, and implications for understanding endogenous female pathways downstream of male seminal fluid cues.

      We appreciate your suggestions for the narrative focus of the manuscript.

      (3) Line 49: "Reproductive behavior is critical for population sustenance and survival of the species": I find this intro a little teleological evolutionary speaking, and I am not totally sure that this has ever been demonstrated as a concept. I would skip it, simply saying "Reproductive behavior in insects is influenced...".

      Following your suggestion, we have revised Line 49 to streamline the introduction and avoid “teleological language”. The updated sentence now reads: "Reproductive behavior in insects is influenced by a complex interplay of neural, hormonal, and environmental factors."

      (4) Line 58: "A PMR has been documented across diverse insect taxa, including Drosophila melanogaster, Anopheles gambiae, Aedes aegypti, and the brown planthopper (BPH), Nilaparvata lugens". There are many other insect species for which PMR has been shown: crickets, fruit flies, grasshoppers, etc. Therefore, I would say "for example" to underline that it is not a complete list. Being an incomplete list, I suggest that the authors pay attention to the cited literature: the literature cited in the case of Anopheles gambiae demonstrates the synthesis of hormones in the MAGs, but it has nothing to do with PMR; there is nothing cited for Aedes aegypti, even if the authors named the species.

      Thank you for this constructive feedback on the framing of PMR studies across insect taxa and the accuracy of our cited literature. We fully agree with your suggestions and have addressed these issues comprehensively in the revised manuscript:

      (1) Revision of the Sentence Structure

      We have modified Line 58 to explicitly indicate that the listed species are examples rather than a complete inventory of insects with documented PMR. The revised sentence reads:

      "The PMR has been documented across diverse insect taxa, for example, Drosophila melanogasterAnopheles gambiaeAedes aegypti, crickets (Gryllodes sigillatus), grasshoppers (Dichromorpha viridis), and the brown planthopper (BPH)Nilaparvata lugens"

      (2) Correction of Literature Citations

      We have thoroughly reviewed the citations associated with the listed species to ensure they directly support the role of PMR:

      For Anopheles gambiae: We have replaced the previously cited study (focused on MAG hormone synthesis) with two relevant references that explicitly characterize PMR traits—including mating-induced oviposition stimulation and remating suppression—in this mosquito species.

      For Aedes aegypti: We have added two newly published studies that document key PMR phenotypes (e.g., post-mating refractoriness and altered feeding behavior) and their underlying molecular mechanisms in this species.

      For crickets (Gryllodes sigillatus): We added a newly published study that documents PMR phenotypes in Gryllodes sigillatus.

      We have also verified that the citations for D. melanogaster and N. lugens remain directly relevant to PMR regulation, with no adjustments needed.

      All revised citations are properly formatted and integrated into the text, with corresponding updates to the reference list.

      (5) Line 111-132: I find this redundant: it is a long summary of the methods and the results. I do not think it is needed here, but I think the authors should point to the main message of their data.

      Thank you for pointing out the redundancy of Lines 111–132. We fully agree that this section, disrupted the flow of the introduction of our study.

      To address this, we have completely removed Lines 111–132 from the revised manuscript. In place of this redundant content, we have added a concise, focused paragraph that emphasizes the central hypothesis and key objective of our work: specifically, to identify the endogenous female signaling pathways that mediate the post-mating response (PMR) downstream of male-derived cues, and to validate the conserved role of corazonin (CRZ) signaling in this process across Nilaparvata lugens and Drosophila melanogaster.

      (6) Line 156: This sentence is not needed here.

      We have deleted the sentence in Line 156 from the revised manuscript.

      (7) Figure 1E, J supplementary 3A: The label of the Y axis is the percentage of the mating females (expected 0-100%), but the numbers show the fraction (0-1). On the contrary, in Figure 1 Supplement 4, the label says "probability of survival" and the probability goes from 0 to 1, while the number of the axis goes from 0 to 100 (percentage).

      Thank you very much for pointing out these inconsistencies. We have carefully reviewed all Y-axis labels and corresponding numerical ranges throughout the manuscript and corrected the mismatched axes.

      (8) Figure1B, C, F, K supp 2, 3A: I found this use of colours confounding. Why did the authors use the light blue for sCRZ, but the mean and SE are shown in pink, which is the colour for CRZ? Furthermore, it is not reported anywhere how many individuals have been used per replicate. There is the total number of insects, the number of replicates, but there is no indication about the minimum number of insects per replicate in this and many other subsequent experiments.

      Thank you for identifying these critical inconsistencies in figure color coding and missing details on sample allocation per replicate, and we greatly appreciate your meticulous review of our data presentation.

      We have addressed these issues in the revised manuscript as follows:

      (1) Standardization of Color Coding

      We apologize for the confusing color mismatch between group labels and data points in Figure 1B, C, F, K, and Supplements 2 and 3A. We have unified the color scheme across some figures to ensure consistency:

      The sCRZ (control) group is now consistently represented by light blue for both labels and mean ± SE data points.

      The CRZ (treatment) group is now consistently represented by pink for both labels and mean ± SE data points.

      For Figures 1C, F, K and Supplementary Figure 2, we were concerned that the mean and s.e.m. bars might be visually obscured by the data points. To improve their visibility, we therefore used the opposite color to display the mean and s.e.m.

      All figure legends have been cross-checked and updated to reflect this standardized color coding.

      (2) Addition of Sample Size per Replicate

      We acknowledge that the lack of information on the minimum number of insects per replicate was a key gap in our experimental reporting. We have supplemented this critical detail in this way:

      Figure Legends: For Figure 1B, C, F, K, and Supplements 2 and 3A (as well as all subsequent experiments), we have added explicit statements specifying the minimum number of insects per replicate, alongside the total sample size and number of replicates (e.g., “n = 3 replicates, with a minimum of 10 females per replicate; total N = 35 females”). All revised figures and their corresponding legends have been integrated into the updated manuscript, and we have cross-checked all other figures to avoid similar issues.

      (9) Figure 1C, F, K, Supplementary Figure 3B: Y axis labels - "Eggs numbers of per female...". I suggest changing it to "Number of eggs per female...".

      We have revised the Y-axis labels for Figure 1C, F, K and Supplementary Figure 3B to Number of eggs per female...” as recommended. Additionally, we cross-checked all other oviposition-related figures in the manuscript to ensure uniform use of this standardized label, eliminating any inconsistent phrasing across the dataset.

      (10) Legend Figure 1B: Mann Whitney test. How did the authors perform the test? Hour by hour? I am not sure this is the best way to analyse the data, because it is a case of multiple testing. Probably a linear model or a glm might be a better fit.

      Thank you very much for pointing out this issue. In Figure 1B, each concentration group was analyzed using data from independent individuals, and therefore the comparisons do not involve repeated measures across time; for this reason, we consider the Mann–Whitney test appropriate for this dataset. For Figure 1—Supplement 3A, however, our original analysis compared treatment and control groups hour by hour, which indeed raises concerns regarding multiple testing. Following your suggestion, we have removed the potentially misleading connecting lines and reanalyzed the dataset using a generalized linear model (GLM). The updated figure and revised legend have been included in the revised manuscript.

      (11) Legend Figure 1E: ANOVA test. These are proportions, not continuous variables of the samples. Tests for proportions might be a better fit (chi-square, etc.).

      To address this issue, we have re-analyzed the proportional data in Figure 1E using Pearson’s chi-square test of independence, which directly evaluates the association between treatment group (sCRZ vs. CRZ) and the binary mating status (mated vs. unmated) of females. This test is statistically robust for proportional data and avoids the assumptions of normality and homogeneity of variances required for ANOVA.

      (12) Knockout experiments: I agree with the authors that the data are strong enough to sustain the conclusions. However, is the corazonin knockout haplosufficient or is it recessive? What is the behaviour of the heterozygotes?

      Thank you for this insightful question regarding the genetic basis of the corazonin (CRZ) knockout phenotype.

      To address your query, we have supplemented experiments with additional phenotypic analyses of heterozygous CRZ knockout females (+/ΔCrz), and we clarify the genetic nature of the knockout as follows:

      (1) Genetic basis of the CRZ knockout:

      The CRZ knockout line was generated via CRISPR-Cas9-mediated deletion of the Crz coding region, resulting in a recessive loss-of-function mutation. Homozygous knockout females (ΔCrz) exhibited the full phenotypic suite reported in the manuscript (impaired post-mating suppression of remating, reduced oviposition rate, and disrupted CRZ signaling in the reproductive tract).

      (2) Phenotype of heterozygous females:

      Behavioral and physiological assays of +/ΔCrz heterozygotes revealed no significant differences compared to wild-type (+/ΔCrz) females across all measured post-mating traits. Specifically:

      Remating rates of +/ΔCrz females were indistinguishable from wild-type controls at 48 h post-mating.

      Oviposition output of +/ΔCrz females matched wild-type levels over a 3-day assay period.

      (3) Updates to the manuscript:

      We have added these heterozygote data as figure1J and K in the revised manuscript, with corresponding descriptions in the Results and Methods sections. We have also explicitly noted the recessive nature of the Crz mutation in the Genetic Manipulation subsection, ensuring clarity for readers.

      These results confirm that the Crz knockout phenotype is fully recessive and that one functional copy of the Crz gene is sufficient to maintain normal post-mating responses—supporting our conclusion that CRZ signaling is required for mediating female PMR.

      We thank you again for raising this important point, which has strengthened the genetic rigor of our study.

      (13) Figure 1, Supplementary 1: I do not understand why the authors point out the fact that these are Protostomia. These are all Arthropoda, there is not a single species outside this Phylum. Caerostris darvini should be Caerostris darwini.

      Thank you for this feedback regarding Figure 1 and Supplementary Figure 1. We fully agree and have addressed these issues in the revised manuscript:

      (1) Removal of the "Protostomia" designation

      We have deleted all references to Protostomia from the figure legends and associated text.

      (2) Spelling correction of Caerostris darwini

      We apologize for the typographical error in the species epithet. We have corrected the misspelling Caerostris darvini to the taxonomically accurate Caerostris darwini (Darwin's bark spider) across all instances in Figure 1, Supplementary Figure 1, and their corresponding legends. We have also cross-checked all other species names in the manuscript to eliminate similar typographical errors.

      (14) Line 299: CRZ expression: I found this confounding, given that the authors were talking about the expression of the gene. I would use the term localization, referring to the protein/peptide (is it what the authors were pointing at?).

      To resolve this ambiguity, we have revised Line 299 to replace CRZ expression with CRZ peptide localization, which accurately describes the experimental focus (immunofluorescence staining and confocal imaging of the CRZ protein). We have also cross-checked the entire manuscript to standardize this terminology:

      We use Crz gene expression exclusively when referring to transcriptional analyses (e.g., qRT-PCR results).

      We use CRZ peptide localization when describing the spatial distribution of the protein (e.g., immunostaining assays).

      (15) Figure 2C: The expression is relative to...? I would make it explicit on the axis.

      Thank you for this helpful comment. We apologize that the normalization reference was not sufficiently clear in the original version. In the revised manuscript, we now explicitly state that RT–qPCR data were first normalized to the reference genes Actin and 18SrRNA, and then expressed relative to the mean expression level of the tissue showing the highest Crz expression, which was set to 1. We have clarified this information in the figure legend and the Methods section.

      We have revised Figure 2C as follows:

      Updated the Y-axis label to explicitly state the reference: “Relative Crz gene expression”.

      Added a supplementary note in the figure legend to confirm that relative expression values were calculated using the 2<sup>⁻ΔΔCt</sup> method, with the reference gene serving as the internal control for normalization.

      Additionally, we have cross-checked all other qRT-PCR-related figures in the manuscript to ensure that the reference for relative expression is clearly indicated on the corresponding axes, standardizing this key detail across all gene expression datasets.

      (16) Figures 3B, E, I, L, M, N: Percentage and proportions, as in Figure 1; furthermore, please provide the minimum number of individuals per replicate. Furthermore, as in Figure 1, the data are proportions, and I would use statistical tests that are studied for this kind of data.

      Thank you for this helpful suggestion. We have reviewed and corrected the Y-axis labels and corresponding numerical ranges in these figures, and we have added the number of replicates and the minimum number of individuals per replicate to the figure legends. In addition, following your recommendation, we have reanalyzed these proportion data using chi-square tests for contingency tables.

      (17) Figure 3: As in Figure 1, it would be interesting to know which is the behaviour of the heterozygotes.

      Thank you for suggesting to complement the data in Figure 3 with heterozygote phenotypic analyses.

      To address this, we have conducted additional behavioral and physiological assays of heterozygous CrzR knockout females (+/CrzR<sup>M</sup>) and integrated these data into the revised Figure 3 and its legend:

      Phenotypic characterization of heterozygotes: Across all traits measured in Figure 3 (e.g., remating rate and oviposition efficiency,), +/CrzR<sup>M</sup> females exhibited no significant differences compared to homozygotes.

      This confirms that the CrzR knockout phenotype is dominant and that one functional copy of the CrzR gene can’t to maintain normal post-mating response (PMR).

      Manuscript updates:

      We added heterozygote data in Figure 3I and J. Accordingly, we updated the Results text to reflect the revised panel labeling.

      We supplemented the figure legend with statistical comparisons between heterozygotes and wild-type groups (using chi-square tests for proportional data).

      We included a brief description of heterozygote phenotypes in the Results section to contextualize the genetic basis of the CrzR-mediated PMR regulation.

      (18) Figure 3 Supplement 1: Can the authors indicate which model for maximum likelihood they chose? Did they perform a pre-test to assess which substitution model was the best for their data?

      Thank you for this critical question regarding the model selection for maximum likelihood (ML) phylogenetic analysis in Figure 3 Supplement 1. We fully agree that specifying the substitution model and validation process is essential for ensuring the reproducibility and rigor of phylogenetic inferences.

      To address this, we have supplemented the manuscript with detailed information on the model selection and validation steps, as follows:

      (1) Substitution model selection

      Prior to constructing the ML tree, we performed a model selection pre-test using the ModelFinder tool integrated in IQ-TREE 2, which evaluates the fit of candidate nucleotide substitution models to the CrzR amino sequence alignment via the Bayesian Information Criterion (BIC). The model selection procedure identified the LG+G model as the best-fit substitution model for our dataset. This model uses the Le and Gascuel (LG) amino-acid substitution matrix and incorporates a gamma-distributed rate variation among sites (G) to account for among-site rate heterogeneity.

      (2) Manuscript updates

      We have added this detailed model selection process and the final LG + G model specification to the legend of Figure 3 Supplement 1.

      We have also included information on bootstrap validation (10000 ultrafast bootstrap replicates) to support the node support values reported in the phylogenetic tree.

      (19) Figure 4 Supplement 1: I would be explicit about what it is relative to (which gene).

      Thank you for this helpful comment, In the revised manuscript, we now explicitly state that RT–qPCR data were first normalized to the reference gene Actin, and then expressed relative to the mean expression level of the tissue showing the highest CrzR expression, which was set to 1. This normalization strategy provides a robust and biologically representative reference. We have clarified this information in the figure legend and the Methods section.

      (20) Line 518 and Line 525 and Figure 5: The authors show that injection of CRZ and RNAi of crz or mutant crz has the same effect on male fitness. How do the authors explain this contradiction? The CRZ injection should activate the pathway, and crz RNAi and mutant crz should inhibit the pathway, but nevertheless, they have the same effect. I would probably test the expression of some of the genes whose expression is altered in crz mutant males (next paragraph) to see if an altered CRZ signalling pathway (both ways) might affect gene expression in the MAGs in the same way.

      Thank you for raising this important point. As explained above, we have removed all data related to CRZ function in male BPHs from the current version.

      (21) Figure 5, Figure 7: As in Figures 1 and 3, please pay attention to the percentages and proportions and the statistical tests.

      Thank you for pointing out these issues. We have carefully reviewed and corrected the percentage/proportion labeling in the relevant figures, including the Y-axis descriptions and numerical ranges, as well as revised the corresponding figure legends. In addition, we have reanalyzed the data using statistical tests appropriate for proportion data. All corresponding revisions have been incorporated into the updated manuscript.

      (22) Line 728-745: As already stated for the abstract, the male effect of crz is, to me, a side product, and I am not sure the male crz signalling has something to do with the female crz signalling. It is interesting, nobody showed that CRZ affects expression in the MAGs, but this is not the main message of the paper, and it confuses the reader. I would reduce the discussion about this aspect and move it to the end, but this is my own take.

      We have removed all data related to CRZ function in males for the reasons outlined above.

      (23) Material and methods/results: as a general suggestion, I would be explicit about the timing of receptivity inhibition in the species. I've seen the authors have established this in precedent work, and I would refer to that work and make the reader aware of how the receptivity works in the species (i.e., that it is not permanent and lasts for a few days after first mating). This allows a better understanding of the experimental design.

      Thank you for this valuable and constructive suggestion. We fully agree that explicitly describing the timing of receptivity inhibition in Nilaparvata lugens, and linking it to our earlier work, will strengthen the rigor and clarity of the manuscript.

      To address this, we have revised the Materials and Methods and Results sections as follows:

      (1) Materials and Methods (Experimental Design subsection)

      We have added a dedicated paragraph that explicitly defines the temporal dynamics of post-mating receptivity inhibition in N. lugens, with direct reference to our prior work[1]. The text clarifies:

      “In N. lugens, mating induces a transient suppression of female receptivity that is not permanent. Females typically start regain remating willingness 72 h after the first mating, as documented in our previous study[1]. This temporal window guided the design of our remating assays, in which females were paired with naive males at 48 h post-initial mating to capture both the suppressed and recovered phases of receptivity.”

      (2) Results (Post-mating Receptivity section)

      We have incorporated a brief contextual sentence at the start of the section to reinforce this key species-specific trait, ensuring that readers connect our assay timings to the temporal dynamics of receptivity in N. lugens.

      These revisions ensure that the rationale behind our experimental timing is transparent and well-supported, allowing readers to fully grasp how our assays were tailored to the biological characteristics of N. lugens.

      (24) Line 854: There is a typo "CRZ peptide. virgin female", the dot should be a comma.

      We have revised Line 854 to correct the punctuation: the dot has been replaced with a comma, resulting in the phrasing "CRZ peptide, virgin female". In addition, we have changed the wording in this sentence to ensure scientific rigor and to avoid colloquial expressions.

      (1) Zhang, Y.J., Zhang, N., Bu, R.T., Nässel, D.R., Gao, C.F., and Wu, S.F. (2025). A novel male accessory gland peptide reduces female post-mating receptivity in the brown planthopper. Plos Genet 21, e1011699. 10.1371/journal.pgen.1011699.

  3. Mar 2026
    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      eLife Assessment

      This article presents valuable findings on how the timing of cooling affects the timing of autumn bud set in European beech saplings. The study leverages extensive experimental data and provides an interesting conceptual framework of the various ways in which warming can affect bud set timing. The support for the findings is incomplete, though extra justifications of the experimental settings, clarifications of the interpretation of the results, and alternative statistical analyses can make the conclusions more robust.

      We thank the editors and reviewers for their expert assessment of our findings and their interest in our conceptual framework. Below we respond to the specific reviewer and editor comments.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study provided key experimental evidence for the "Solstice-as-PhenologySwitch Hypothesis" through two temperature manipulation experiments.

      Strengths:

      The research is data-rich, particularly in exploring the effects of pre- and postsolstice cooling, as well as daytime versus nighttime cooling, on bud set timing, showcasing significant innovation. The article is well-written, logically clear, and is likely to attract a wide readership.

      Thank you for your generous description of our study and the manuscript.

      Weaknesses:

      However, there are several issues that need to be addressed.

      (1) In Experiment 1, significant differences were observed in the impact of cooling in July versus August. July cooling induced a delay in bud set dates that was 3.5 times greater in late-leafing trees compared to early-leafing ones, while August cooling induced comparable advances in bud set timing in both early- and late-leafing trees.

      The study did not explain why the timing (July vs. August) resulted in different mechanisms. Can a link be established between phenology and photosynthetic product accumulation? Additionally, can the study differentiate between the direct warming effect and the developmental effect, and quantify their relative contributions?

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out that we could improve our explanation of the different responses to July and August cooling in experiment 1. Whilst we incorporated this in the conceptual model and the figure caption (Fig. 1b), we now also address this topic in more depth in the discussion section, focussing on daylength and photosynthetic assimilation as the possible mediators of this change in responses (L350-371).

      For the early-season development effect vs the late-season temperature effect we can use the leaf-out day-of-year (as a proxy for development), and the summer cooling treatments (direct temperature effect) to assess the relative importance of these two components of our model. We have now included a variance partitioning analysis following this logic, see L246-252 for methods, L278-281 for results.

      (2) The two experimental setups differed in photoperiod: one used a 13-hour photoperiod at approximately 4,300 lux, while the other used an ambient day length of 16 hours with a light intensity of around 6,900 lux. What criteria were used to select these conditions, and do they accurately represent real-world scenarios? Furthermore, as shown in Figure S1, significant differences in soil moisture content existed between treatments - could this have influenced the conclusions?

      This question may reflect a misunderstanding regarding the light availability that we hope to address with improved clarification. The duration and intensity of the lighting in these experiments was always set to reflect the average conditions experienced in Zurich for those respective times of the year. Day length in spring is shorter than it is in summer, so the durations were simply adjusted to reflect this reality. The 13-hour, 4,300 lux conditions in experiment 1 were only for the April-May period, when we reduced developmental rates for the late-leafing trees (L125-129). In July, the photoperiod was set to 16 hours and light intensity was approximately 7,300 lux (L150-154). This is equitable to experiment 2–when treatments were applied in June and July–where photoperiod was 16 hours and light intensity approximately 6,900 lux (L206-207). These conditions reflect the average daylengths in Zurich, and the maximum light intensity output by the chambers.

      As mentioned in our initial author response, we do not think small differences in soil moisture levels should influence our conclusions. All pots were watered sufficiently to avoid water deficit, and all efforts were made to minimise differences in water availability. A Tukey honest significant difference test showed that only one treatment pair (6 - Late_July_Extreme vs. 7 - Early_August_Moderate, difference = 6%, p < 0.05) had significantly different soil water content, a pair whose responses are not compared. We have added words to this effect in the figure legend of Fig. S1.

      (3) The authors investigated how changes in air temperature around the summer solstice affected primary growth cessation, but the summer solstice also marks an important transition in photoperiod. How can the influence of photoperiod be distinguished from the temperature effect in this context?

      We agree that photoperiod likely plays a central role. Our conceptual model (Fig. 1) explicitly incorporates photoperiod as the framework within which temperature responses are regulated (L72-75, L627-629 & L638-641). The Solstice-as-Phenology-Switch hypothesis assumes that the annual progression of daylength sets the physiological “window” for trees’ responsiveness to temperature. Our experiments therefore focused on how temperature responses differ before versus after the solstice, while recognising that this reversal is likely enabled by the photoperiod signal. In other words, photoperiod provides the regulatory backdrop, and our results identify how diel and seasonal temperature cues are interpreted within that photoperiodic framework.

      (4) The study utilized potted trees in a controlled environment, which limits the generalization of the results to natural forests. Wild trees are subject to additional variables, such as competition and precipitation. Moreover, climate differences between years (2022 vs. 2023) were not controlled. As such, the conclusions may be overgeneralized to "all temperate tree species", as the experiment only involved potted European beech seedlings. The discussion would benefit from addressing species-specific differences.

      We agree that extrapolation from our experiments on Fagus sylvatica to other species and natural forests requires caution. However, it is precisely the controlled nature of our design that allowed us to isolate the precise mechanisms that appear to underpin the solstice switch, highlighting the role of diel and seasonal temperature variation. In natural systems, additional variables such as competition, precipitation, and soil heterogeneity can strongly influence phenology, but they also make it difficult to disentangle causal mechanisms. By minimising these confounding factors, our experiment provided a clear test of how temperature before and after the solstice regulates growth cessation.

      To acknowledge the limitation, we have toned down statements about generalisation (e.g. “likely generalisable” to “other temperate tree species may display similarities”; L409-411) and explicitly call for follow-up studies across species and forest contexts (L413–414). At the same time, we highlight that our findings align with independent evidence from manipulative experiments, satellite observations, flux measurements, and ground-based phenology, which suggests the mechanisms we report may extend beyond the specific populations studied here.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      In 'Developmental constraints mediate the summer solstice reversal of climate effects on European beech bud set', Rebindaine and co-authors report on two experiments on Fagus sylvatica where they manipulated temperatures of saplings between day and night and at different times of year. I enjoyed reading this paper and found it well written. I think the experiments are interesting, but I found the exact methods somewhat extreme compared to how the authors present them. Further, given that much of the experiment happened outside, I am not sure how much we can generalize from one year for each experiment, especially when conducted on one population of one species. I next expand briefly on these concerns and a few others.

      Thank you for the kind comments. We appreciate your concerns regarding the severity of our treatments and the generalisability of our results, and you can find our detailed responses below.

      Concerns:

      (1) As I read the Results, I was surprised the authors did not give more information on the methods here. For example, they refer to the 'effect of July cooling' but never say what the cooling was. Once I read the methods, I feared they were burying this as the methods feel quite extreme given the framing of the paper. The paper is framed as explaining observational results of natural systems, but the treatments are not natural for any system in Europe that I have worked in. For example, a low of 2 {degree sign}C at night and 7 {degree sign}C during the day through the end of May and then 7/13 {degree sign}C in July is extreme. I think these methods need to be clearly laid out for the reader so they can judge what to make of the experiment before they see the results.

      We understand the concern regarding the structure of the manuscript and note that the methods section was moved to the end of the paper in accordance with eLife’s recommended formatting. We have now moved the methods section before the results to ensure that readers are familiar with the treatments before encountering the outcomes.

      We recognise that our temperature treatments were severe and do not mimic real world scenarios. They were deliberately designed to create large contrasts in developmental rates, thereby maximising our ability to detect the mechanisms underpinning the solstice switch. For example, the severe cooling between 4 April and 24 May was specifically designed to slow spring development as much as possible without damaging the plants (L129-L133). We have added text in the Methods to clarify this aim (L129-131 & L156-161).

      Regarding presentation, treatment details are now described in both the Methods and the relevant figure legends. Given this structure, we have chosen not to restate the full treatment conditions in the main Results text to avoid repetition.

      (2) I also think the control is confounded with the growth chamber experience in Experiment 1. That is, the control plants never experience any time in a chamber, but all the treatments include significant time in a chamber. The authors mention how detrimental chamber time can be to saplings (indeed, they mention an aphid problem in experiment 2), so I think they need to be more upfront about this. The study is still very valuable, but again, we may need to be more cautious in how much we infer from the results.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s concern about the potential confounding effect of chamber exposure in experiment 1. We have now discussed this limitation more explicitly, adding further explanation to the Methods (L146-148) and Discussion (L345-346).

      Note that chamber-related problems (e.g. aphid infestations) primarily occurred under warm chamber conditions, whereas our experiment 1 cooling treatments maintained low temperatures that suppressed such issues. This means that an equivalent “warm chamber control” could have been associated with its own artefacts, as trees kept under warm chamber conditions would have been exposed to additional stressors that were not present under natural growing conditions. To address this point, we included a chamber control in experiment 2. While aphid abundance was indeed higher in the warm chamber controls, chamber exposure itself had no detectable effect on autumn phenology. This suggests that the main findings of experiment 1 are unlikely to be artefacts of chamber conditions (L141145).

      Nevertheless, we agree that chamber exposure remains a potential limitation of experiment 1, which requires clear acknowledgement. We now state this more explicitly in the manuscript while also emphasising that our results are supported by experiment 2 and by converging lines of external evidence.

      (3) I suggest the authors add a figure to explain their experiments, as they are very hard to follow. Perhaps this could be added to Figure 1?

      We have now added figures to the methods section to depict the experimental timelines and settings more clearly (Figs. 2 and 3).

      (4) Given how much the authors extrapolate to carbon and forests, I would have liked to see some metrics related to carbon assimilation, versus just information on timing.

      We agree that including more data on photosynthetic assimilation would be valuable for interpreting phenological responses. Indeed, it was our intention to collect this information. However, unfortunately, we experienced technical challenges with the equipment available to us during the experimental period, which prevented us from collecting a full dataset. Nevertheless, we were able to obtain measurements during pre-solstice cooling (now presented as Fig. S12, including data for all treatments), which show that cooling treatments strongly reduced assimilation rates compared to controls. Importantly, these strong reductions occurred across all cooling treatments, yet their phenological outcomes differed markedly, demonstrating that assimilation alone cannot explain the observed responses. As we discuss, our findings are consistent with previous manipulative and observational studies reporting a weak role of late-season assimilation in controlling autumn phenology.

      (5) Fagus sylvatica is an extremely important tree to European forests, but it also has outlier responses to photoperiod and other cues (and leafs out very late), so using just this species to then state 'our results likely are generalisable across temperate tree species' seems questionable at best.

      We agree that Fagus sylvatica has a stronger photoperiod dependence than many other European tree species. As we note in our response to Reviewer 1 (comment 4), our findings align with previous research across temperate northern forests. Within our framework, interspecific variation in leaf-out timing would not alter the overall response pattern, though it could shift the specific timing of effect reversals. For example, earlier-leafing species may approach completion of development sooner and thus show sensitivity to late-season cooling earlier than F. sylvatica. Nevertheless, we acknowledge the importance of not overstating generality. We have therefore revised the manuscript to phrase conclusions more cautiously (L409411) and highlight the need for further research across species (L413–414).

      (6) Another concern relates to measuring the end of season (EOS). It is well known that different parts of plants shut down at different times, and each metric of end of season - budset, end of radial expansion, leaf coloring, etc - relates to different things. Thus, I was surprised that the authors ignore all this complexity and seem to equate leaf coloring with budset (which can happen MONTHS before leaf coloring often) and with other metrics. The paper needs a much better connection to the physiology of end of season and a better explanation for the focus on budset. Relatedly, I was surprised that the authors cite almost none of the literature on budset, which generally suggests it is heavily controlled by photoperiod and population-level differences in photoperiod cues, meaning results may be different with a different population of plants.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out that our discussion of the responses of different EOS metrics needs more clarity. We agree with much of this perspective, and we have added an additional analysis of leaf chlorophyll content data to use leaf discolouration as an alternative EOS marker (L179-195 for methods, L296-311 for results). On this we would like to make two important points:

      Firstly, we agree that bud set often occurs before leaf discolouration, although this can depend on which definition of leaf discolouration is used. In experiment 1, bud set occurred on average on day-of-year (DOY) 262 and leaf senescence (50% loss of leaf chlorophyll) occurred on DOY 320. However, we do not necessarily agree that this excludes the combined discussion of bud set and leaf senescence timing. Whilst environmental drivers can affect parts of plants differently, often responses from different end-of-season indicators (e.g. bud set and loss of leaf chlorophyll) are similar, even if only directionally. Figure S11 shows how, across both experiments, treatment effects were tightly conserved (R<sup>2</sup> = 0.49) amongst the two phenometrics. In accordance with these revisions, we have updated the manuscript title to “Developmental constraints mediate the summer solstice reversal of climate effects on the autumn phenology of European beech” (L1-2).

      Secondly, shifts in bud set timing remain the primary focus of the manuscript as these shifts are of direct physiological relevance to plant development and dormancy induction, whereas leaf discolouration may simply follow bud set as a symptom of developmental completion. This is supported by our results, which show stronger responses of bud set than leaf senescence (Figs. 4 & 5 vs. Figs. S9 & S10).

      Following the reviewer’s suggestion, we have included more references on the topic of bud set and its environmental controls. The reviewer rightly stresses that photoperiod is considered the most important factor. As mentioned above (see Reviewer 1 comment 3), photoperiod is therefore key in our conceptual model. However, the responses we observed in F. sylvatica cannot be explained by photoperiod alone. For example, in experiment 1, July cooling delayed the autumn phenology of late-leafing trees but had negligible impact on early-leafing trees, even though both experienced the exact same photoperiod. Moreover, in experiment 2, day, night and full-day cooling showed substantial variations in their effects despite equal photoperiod across the climate regimes. This is why we suggest that the annual progression of photoperiod modulates the responses to temperature variations instead of eliciting complete control.

      (7) I didn't fully see how the authors' results support the Solstice as Switch hypothesis, since what timing mattered seemed to depend on the timing of treatment and was not clearly related to the solstice. Could it be that these results suggest the Solstice as Switch hypothesis is actually not well supported (e.g., line 135) and instead suggest that the pattern of climate in the summer months affects end-of season timing?

      We interpret this concern as relating to the flexibility in reversal timing that we observed. Importantly, the Solstice-as-Phenology-Switch hypothesis does not assume that the reversal is fixed to June 21. Rather the hypothesis implies that reversal occurs around the solstice, when photoperiod cues cause tree individuals to shift from accelerating to decelerating their seasonal development. Our conceptual model (Fig. 1) explicitly incorporates this flexibility by showing how the timing of the reversal depends on developmental speed: Individuals that develop more slowly (or leaf out later) cross the compensatory point later in the summer, whereas fast developing individuals reach it earlier.

      Our experiments support this framework: pre-solstice full-day cooling delayed bud set, whereas post-solstice full-day cooling advanced it, with differences between early- and late-developing individuals consistent with the model. Moreover, the contrasting impacts of daytime vs. night time cooling demonstrate how diel conditions can further shape when the reversal is expressed. Thus, rather than contradicting the Solstice-as-Phenology-Switch hypothesis, our findings reinforce it and extend it by showing how flexibility arises from interactions between developmental progression, diel temperature responses, and photoperiod.

      We have added an additional section in the Discussion that elaborates on how our results support the Solstice-as-Phenology-Switch hypothesis (L416-432).

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewing Editor (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) The current strength of evidence is incomplete. Extra justifications of the experimental settings, clarifications of the interpretation of the results, and alternative statistical analyses could make the conclusions more solid.

      We agree with the vast majority of the reviewer comments and have made the relevant edits. We believe that these have dramatically improved the clarity of the manuscript. The revised analyses have not changed our conclusions, though we have toned down generalisations.

      (2) The Solstice as Switch hypothesis is about the effect of temperature warming. However, the two experiments did not simulate warming but rather cooling. Although a temperature difference can be obtained compared to the control in both cases, the impacts on plant physiology and phenology should still be different between the two scenarios.

      Thank you for raising this point, which requires clearer communication in our manuscript. The Solstice-as-Phenology-Switch hypothesis posits that changes in temperature before and after the summer solstice have opposite effects on the autumn phenology of northern forest trees. While the hypothesis has most often been framed in terms of warming, the underlying mechanism concerns whether development is accelerated or slowed relative to ambient conditions. In essence, we are exploring the effect of changes in temperature – not warming per se. In warmer springs, development begins earlier and/or proceeds faster, while in colder springs the opposite occurs; the same logic applies to post-solstice conditions. We have extended our explanation in the Introduction (L69-71).

      In our experiments, we applied cooling to create strong contrasts in developmental rates without damaging the trees. These treatments allow us to test the direction of phenological responses relative to ambient conditions. Thus, although we used cooling rather than warming, the results are directly informative for the Solstice-as Switch framework, which concerns the relative effect of temperature changes rather than the absolute direction of manipulation.

      (3) The number of groups for bud type and summer temperature treatment is too small to be used as a random effect; it would be more appropriate to treat them as fixed-effect terms.

      We have revised the analysis to include bud type as a fixed effect. There are only very minor numerical adjustments (e.g. rounding to 4.8 days instead of 4.9, see L271) and inferences are not altered. We also report the bud type effects for experiment 1 (L262-266) and experiment 2 (L292-293)

      (4) Please add more clarifications for Figure 4 about what this figure is for and how you derived this figure, whether the data were from your experiments or others.

      We have rewritten the caption for Figure 6 (Fig. 4 in the previous manuscript) to clarify where the data came from and how the figure was generated (L687-693). This figure serves as a visual guide to aid the understanding of the processes that may govern the patterns we have observed. Figure 6a uses data from previous studies on diel patterns in F. sylvatica, specifically growth (Zweifel et al., 2021) and photosynthetic assimilation rates (Urban et al., 2014). To aid visualisation, we linearly interpolated between measurements points, converted the values to a relative percentage (compared to observed maximum), and then smoothed the resulting curves. Based on the evidence from experiment 2, we suggest there may be a temperature threshold below which overwintering responses (e.g. bud set) are induced in F. sylvatica. Figure 6b depicts a theoretical diel pattern of this potential threshold. In simple terms, the threshold must be lower at night because nights are typically colder than days.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) How can a bud type -- which is apical or lateral -- be a random effect? The model needs to try to estimate a variance for each random effect, so doing this for n=2 is quite odd to me. I think the authors should also report the results with bud type as fixed, or report the bud types separately.

      See point (3) in reviewing editor’s recommendations for the authors.

      (2) Could the authors move the methods earlier and remind readers of them in the results?

      We have addressed this issue, please see detailed response under reviewer 2’s concerns.

      Urban O, Klem K, Holišová P, Šigut L, Šprtová M, Teslová-Navrátilová P, Zitová M, Špunda V, Marek MV, Grace J. 2014. Impact of elevated CO2 concentration on dynamics of leaf photosynthesis in Fagus sylvatica is modulated by sky conditions. Environmental Pollution 185: 271–280.

      Zweifel R, Sterck F, Braun S, Buchmann N, Eugster W, Gessler A, Häni M, Peters RL, Walthert L, Wilhelm M, et al. 2021. Why trees grow at night. New Phytologist 231: 2174–2185.

    1. Author Response:

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Naim et al. use genetically engineered mouse models and tissue culture cell lines to investigate the role of the SLAP adaptor protein in colonic epithelium and colon tumour formation. The SLAP adaptor protein is known to be a negative regulator of tyrosine kinase signaling in hematopoietic cells, but its role outside the immune system is less well defined. Here, the authors use genetically engineered SLAP-deficient mice, tissue-specific SLAP KO, and colonic organoids to demonstrate that SLAP is expressed in cells of the colonic epithelium, where it acts as a cell-autonomous regulator of proliferation and differentiation. In addition, they provide biochemical evidence that loss of SLAP expression in cultured colonic organoids results in increased Src family kinase activity and global tyrosine phosphorylation, consistent with its known role as a suppressor of tyrosine kinase activity in immune cells. Consistently, treatment with an SRC kinase inhibitor inhibited the growth of SLAP-deficient organoids. These data provide solid evidence of a cell-autonomous role of SLAP in the colonic epithelium.

      This work would be improved by further description and interpretation of the SLAP expression pattern shown in the constitutive and tissue-specific KO to further support the conclusions made. In Supplementary Figure 1, magnification of the colon epithelium areas with SLAP expression shown by b-gal and anti-SLAP staining, highlighting regions of interest, would better support the conclusions regarding SLAP expression in specific regions of the colon epithelium. In Supplementary Figure 1B, the authors should indicate that the SLAP staining referred to is epithelial and in resident immune cells, as is mentioned in the text. Also, magnification of the boxed area of LRG5 staining in Figure 1 would improve this figure.

      We thank the reviewer for their positive and constructive evaluation of our work.

      We agree that a more detailed description and visualization of SLAP expression in the colonic epithelium would strengthen our conclusions. In response, we will revise Fig 1 and S1 to better highlight SLAP expression patterns. Specifically, we will include higher-magnification images of the colonic epithelial regions in Suppl Fig 1, with clearly indicated regions of interest. We will also clarify in the legend of Suppl Figure 1B that SLAP staining is observed in both epithelial and resident immune cells, as described in the text. Additionally, we will provide a magnified view of the boxed area showing LGR5 staining in Figure 1 to improve clarity.

      Using a chemically induced model of colitis-associated cancer, the authors demonstrate that inactivation of SLAP shows a trend toward increased tumor formation (though this did not reach significance) as well as increased Src family kinase activity within tumors. Tumor spheres from SLAP-deficient animals showed enhanced growth that was suppressed by treatment with a Src family kinase inhibitor. Of note, the latter effect was specific to SLAP-deficient tumor spheres. These observations are convincing and support the authors' conclusion that SLAP has a tumor suppressor role in CRC through inhibition of SFK signaling.

      Mechanistically, elevated expression of the RTK, EphB2, was detected in immunoblots of SLAP KO colonic crypts, while overexpression of SLAP in CRC cell lines downregulated EphB2 protein levels. Using an EPHB2 inhibitor, the role of EPHB2 in the growth of SLAP-deficient colonic organoids was demonstrated. While these data generally support the authors' conclusion that SLAP limits colonic organoid growth by downregulating RTKS such as EphB2 and downstream Src family kinase activity, they do not show which cell types/regions in the colonic epithelium have increased EPHB2 protein and how this relates to SLAP and phospho-SRC expression, as shown in Figure 1 and Figure S1 immunocytochemistry. The expression of EphB2 and its role in colonic tumorsphere growth were not investigated.

      Overall, this work provides evidence of SLAP adaptor function in restricting tyrosine kinase signaling in the colonic epithelium, and suggests that loss of SLAP expression could promote tumorigenesis in this context.

      We also thank the reviewer for their positive comments regarding our tumor studies and the role of SLAP in regulating SFK signaling.

      Regarding the mechanistic insights involving EphB2, we appreciate the reviewer’s suggestion to further define its spatial expression and relationship with SLAP and phospho-SRC. To address this, we plan to extend our analysis to assess the effect of Slap depletion on EphB2 protein levels throughout the intestinal epithelium.

      We recognize that directly testing EphB2’s role in murine colonic tumorsphere formation would require a new cohort of SLAP knockout mice treated with AOM/DSS for 90 days, which is not feasible in the short term. To address this, we will instead use human colorectal cancer models to assess how SLAP modulation affects the response of tumoroids derived from cell lines to EphB2 inhibition, providing complementary mechanistic insights.

      Overall, we believe these additions will strengthen the manuscript and more fully address the reviewer’s concerns.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Protein tyrosine kinases are subject to diverse regulatory mechanisms controlling their activity in normal situations. The authors previously identified SLAP (Src-like adaptor protein), a negative regulator of receptor tyrosine kinase (RTK) signaling, as a key suppressor of the cytoplasmic tyrosine kinase SRC in the normal colon and demonstrated that SLAP is downregulated in a majority of colorectal cancers (CRCs).

      In this study, the authors further explored SLAP functions in mouse models using constitutive and inducible epithelial-specific Slap deletion (villin-CreERT2 model). They found that loss of SLAP augments colonic epithelial cell proliferation and that induction of tumorigenesis by the AOM/DSS protocol mimicking CRC leads to more aggressive tumors in the absence of SLAP. This effect is apparently cell-autonomous as growth of normal and tumoral colonic organoids is SLAP-dependent in in vitro settings. Finally, the authors define that, in colon, SLAP represses EphB2, an RTK lying upstream of SRC, and show that inhibitors of EphB2 can partially limit tumorigenic development in vitro.

      Strengths:

      The manuscript is clearly and concisely written, making it easy to follow. The data obtained in the mouse models are very convincing.

      Weaknesses:

      Direct evidence that EphB2 is activated/phosphorylated in the absence of SLAP is lacking, as conclusions are only based on results obtained with inhibitors. Some other issues have to be addressed before acceptance, in particular, the relevance of the findings in CRC patients.

      We thank the reviewer for their positive and constructive evaluation of our work.

      We agree that our conclusions regarding the SLAP–EphB2–SRC signaling axis rely in part on pharmacological inhibition. As outlined in the manuscript, EphB2 was selected primarily as a proof-of-concept receptor to illustrate how SLAP may indirectly regulate SRC activity through modulation of upstream receptor tyrosine kinases. We note that the use of two distinct classes of EphB inhibitors supports the robustness of our observations.

      To further strengthen this aspect of the study, we will assess EphB2 phosphorylation status in SLAP-deficient conditions, which will provide more direct evidence of its activation state and its contribution to SRC signaling.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

      Throughout the paper, the authors do a fantastic job of highlighting caveats in their approach, from image acquisition to analysis. Despite this, some conclusions and viewpoints portrayed in this study do not appear well-supported by the provided data. Furthermore, there are a few technical points regarding the analysis that should be addressed.

      We thank the reviewer for the comments, due to the age of the work and logistic constraints, we are unable to perform further experiments and analysis to address some of the concerns. We revised conclusions and viewpoints accordingly to reflect reviewer concerns.

      (1) Analysis of signaling traces

      Relevance of "modeled signaling level": It is not clear whether this added complexity and potential for error (below) provides benefits over a more simple analysis such as taking the derivative (shown in Figure 3C). Could the authors provide evidence for the benefits? For example, does the "maximal response" given a simpler metric correlate less well with cell fate than that calculated from the fitted response?

      We think the benefits of modeled signaling level are the conceptual accuracy to the extent possible with the data. It’s true that the assumptions brought-in may cause certain biases. We perform this and the simplest (raw data averaging, Fig.2). Intermediate results in between (such as the first derivative in Fig.3C) may correlate well or less well, but cannot be interpreted biologically.

      Assumptions for "modeled signaling level": According to equation (1) Kaede levels are monotonically increasing. This is assumed given the stability of the fluorescent protein. However, this only holds for the "totally produced Kaede/fluorescence." Other metrics such as mean fluorescence can very well decrease over time due to growth and division. Does "intensity" mean total fluorescence? Visual inspection of the traces shown in Figure 2 suggests that "fluorescence intensity" can decrease. What does this mean for the inferred traces?

      Yes the segmentations measure intensity in a fixed volume inside a cell, therefore it’s a spatial average (concentration) and is susceptible to cell volume changes. This has been noted in the revision. The raw measurement does fluctuate and can decrease, we think the short-time-scale fluctuations are likely measurement variations/errors rather than underlying big changes in concentration.

      Estimation of Kaede reporter half-live: It is not clear how the mRNA stability of Kaede is estimated. It sounds like it was just assessed visually, which seems not entirely appropriate given the quantitative aspects of the rest of the study. Also, given that Shh signaling was inhibited on the level of Smoothened, it is not obvious how the dynamics of signaling shutdown affect the estimate. Most results in Figure 7 seem to be quite robust to the estimate of the half-live. That they are, might suggest that the whole analysis is unnecessary in the first place. However, not all are. Thus, it would be important to make this estimate more quantitative.

      Yes we agree. Unfortunately we don’t have the quantitative data required to better estimate Kaede mRNA stability. The timing of Cyc inhibition to the ceasing of ptch mRNA production is roughly estimated but not necessarily precise in this context.

      (2) Assignment of fates and correlations

      Error estimate for cell-type assignment: Trying to correlate signaling traces to cell fate decisions requires accurate cell fate assignment post-tracking. The provided protocol suggests a rather manual, expert-directed process of making those decisions. Can the authors provide any error-bound on those decisions, for example comparing the results obtained by two experts or something comparable? I am particularly concerned about the results regarding the higher degree of variability in the correlation between signaling dynamics and cell fate in the posterior neural tube. Here, the expression of Olig2 does not seem to segregate between different assigned fates, while it does so nicely in the anterior neural tube. This would suggest to me that cells in the posterior neural tube might not yet be fully committed to a fate or that there could be a relatively high error rate in assigning fates. Thus, the results could emerge from technical errors or differences in pure timing. Could the authors please comment on these possibilities?

      This is a very insightful point. We did examine the posterior data again (cross-checked by 2 co-authors) to make sure the mixed situation has correct cell fate assignment. As established by others’ and our previous studies (See also Fig.1A), the identification of MFPs and LFPs in zebrafish spinal cord is very robust. The MFPs are the apical constricted single column of cells along the midline on top of the notochord, and the LFPs are the 2 columns of cells next to MFP on both sides. LFPs’ expression of olig2:gfp did vary more in the posterior (timing of response/commitment could be a factor as the reviewer pointed out), but eventually the cells at those positions will be V3 interneurons or floor plates and have not been observed to make motoneurons. There are 3 low Olig2:GFP pMNs in the anterior dataset (Fig.2B’) and 3 high Olig2:GFP LFPs in the posterior dataset (Fig.2D’) that we checked carefully. The heterogeneity argument is based on the verified tracking and final positioning of these cells.

      Clustering and fates: One approach the authors use to analyze the correlation between signaling and fate is clustering of cell traces and comparison of the fate distributions in those clusters. There is a large number of clusters with only single traces, suggesting that the data (number of traces) might not be sufficient for this analysis. Furthermore, I am skeptical about clustering cells of different anterior-posterior identities together, given potential differences in the timing of signal reception and signaling. I am not convinced that this analysis reveals enough about how signaling maps to fate given the heterogeneity in traces in large clusters and the prevalence of extremely small clusters.

      We agree. Due to the age of the work and logistic constraints, we are unable to perform further experiments and analysis to enrich the tracks for this revision. We are aware of upcoming, independent studies with many more systematic tracks and analysis which will address these concerns. We have added the caveats the reviewer raised.

      Signaling vector and hand-picked metrics: As an alternative approach, that might be better suited for their data, the authors then pick three metrics (based on their model-predicted signaling dynamics) and show that the maximal response is a very good predictor of fate for different anterior-posterior identities. Previous information-theoretic analysis of signaling dynamics has found that a whole time-vector of signaling can carry much more information than individual metrics (Selimkhanov et al, 2014, PMID: 25504722). Have the authors tried to use approaches that make use of the whole trace (such as simple classifiers (Granados et al, 2018, PMID: 29784812), or can comment on why this is not feasible for their data? The authors should at least make clear that their results present a lower bound to how accurately cells can make cell-fate decisions based on signaling dynamics.

      Thanks for these suggestions. We are limited by the measurement noise, coverage window of the traces and the number of tracks to make use of the full dynamics in a more informative manner.

      (3) Consequences of signaling heterogeneity

      The authors focus heavily on portraying that signaling dynamics are highly variable, which seems visually true at first glance. However, there is no metric used or a description given of what this actually means. Mainly, the variability seems to relate to the correlation between signaling and fate. However, given the data and analysis, I would argue that the decoding of signaling dynamics into fate is surprisingly accurate. So signaling dynamics that seem quite noisy and variable by visual inspection can actually be very well discriminated by cells, which to me appears very exciting.

      Yes – we agree that most cells are actually accurate in such a highly dynamic tissue. In the literature, the view has been more focused on how the GRN enables this accuracy. We therefore highlighted the heterogeneity and limit of accuracy of the GRN here. We added this point to make our presentation more balanced.

      Indeed, simple features of signaling traces can predict cell fate as well as position (for anterior progenitors). Given that signaling should be a function of position, it naively seems as if signaling read-out could be almost perfect. It might be interesting to plot dorsal-ventral position vs the signaling metrics, to also investigate how Shh concentration/position maps to signaling dynamics, this would give an even more comprehensive view of signal transmission.

      We’d refer readers to our earlier study Xiong et al., 2013 where ptch2:kaede, nkx2:gfp and olig2:gfp were plotted against position over time in single cell tracks. It was found that position was not a good predictor of signaling levels or cell fates at early stages when the cell fates were specified.

      There remains the discrepancy between signaling traces and fate in the posterior neural tube. The authors point towards differences in tissue architecture and difficulties in interpreting a "small" Shh gradient. However, the data seems consistent with differences in timing of cell-fate decisions between anterior and posterior cells. The authors show that fate does initially not correlate well with position in the posterior neural tube. So, signaling dynamics should likely also not, as they should rather be a function of position, given they are downstream of the Shh gradient. As mentioned above, not even Olig2 expression does segregate the assigned fates well. All this points towards a difference in the time of fate assignment between the anterior and posterior. Given likely delays in reporter protein production and maturation, it can thus not be expected that signaling dynamics correlate better with cell fate than the reporter "83%". Can the authors please discuss this possibility in the paper?

      Yes this is an important point/caveat of live signaling and fate tracking. As discussed in the manuscript, due to the sensitivity limit of fluorescent imaging, it’s difficult to determine the time when cells start to respond to the signal, and how variable that is from cell to cell. The posterior cells may be more variable in either spatial or temporal responses compared to the anterior and we are not able to distinguish that. However, signaling dynamics is not necessarily a good function of position or time either, there is no evidence for that in our results here. The 83% correlation is thus striking for the posterior progenitors indicating a certain robust logic in the GRN to capture a strong (even short-lived) response to Shh, regardless of position or time. This is an interest possibility (we do not claim it a mechanism as we have not tested it with perturbations) that challenges the prevailing view in the field that these progenitors integrate Shh exposure over time, or that they acquire positional information by reading a gradient.

      The discussion has been modified to be more nuanced about these points.

      Thus, while this paper represents an example of what the community needs to do to gain a better understanding of robust patterning under variability, the provided data is not always sufficient to make clear conclusions regarding the functional consequences of signaling dynamics.

      We quite agree. Together with the reviewer, we look forward to seeing the publication of some recent, independent progresses overcoming the challenges in our work by other colleagues.

      Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      In this work, Xiong and colleagues examine the relationship between the profile of the morphogen Shh and the resulting cell fate decisions in the zebrafish neural tube. For this, the authors combine high-resolution live imaging of an established Shh reporter with reporter lines for the different progenitor types arising in the forming neural tube. One of the key observations in this manuscript is that, while, on average, cells respond to differences in Shh activity to adopt distinct progenitor fates, at the single cell level there is strong heterogeneity between Shh response and fate choices. Further, the authors showed that this heterogeneity was particularly prominent for the pMN fate, with similar Shh response dynamics to those observed in neighboring LFP progenitors.

      Strengths:

      It is important to directly correlate Shh activity with the downstream TFs marking distinct progenitor types in vivo and with single cell resolution. This additional analysis is in line with previous observations from these authors, namely in Xiong, 2013. Further, the authors show that cells in different anterior-posterior positions within the neural tube show distinct levels of heterogeneity in their response to Shh, which is a very interesting observation and merits further investigation.

      Weaknesses:

      This is a convincing work, however, adding a few more analyses and clarifications would, in my view, strengthen the key finding of heterogeneity between Shh response and the resulting cell fate choices.

      We thank the reviewer for the comments, due to the age of the work and logistic constraints, we are unable to perform further experiments and analysis to address some of the concerns. We revised conclusions and viewpoints accordingly to reflect reviewer concerns.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for The Authors):

      Minor comments:

      y-axis label suddenly changes to Ptch2-reporter level in Figure 5. Is what is plotted different from what is seen as examples in Figure 3?

      Thanks! Figure 5 tracks are as Figure 3B, this has been annotated in the figure legends.

      There are random bounding boxes in some of the figures.

      Sometimes the m in "More dorsal" is stylized with a capital M and sometimes not. It is somewhat confusing as a name for cell types but it is fine if no alternative can be found.

      This study unfortunately does not include markers that distinguish the interneurons dorsal to pMNs. We categorized them collectively as “more dorsal”.

      Response-time is defined as "the amount of time with an above-basal Shh response". This seems to me as the definition of response duration. I would assume that response-time, means the time it takes until a response is first observed. Please consider changing this.

      We did not use “duration” because a response time course recorded in these tracks may include multiple durations (on and off). The duration of exposure/response has been specifically used in the field as a single period of response. So it’s a sum of active responding time here. Clarified in the text.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for The Authors):

      (1) The authors address several possible setbacks of transforming the measured fluorescence intensity of the patched reporter into a readout of the Shh signaling activity over time, however, one aspect that isn't directly addressed is the potential effect of differences in the z position of analyzed cells. These could, at least in principle, be sufficient to introduce significant noise in the fluorescence measurements. Can the authors subset their datasets by initial, as well as average, z position and then re-examine the measured trends for both Shh activity and the intensity of the cell fate reporters used in the study?

      The zebrafish early neural plate/tube has a small thickness in z in dorsal-ventral imaging and the tissue is transparent. The depth-associated scattering contributes very little, if at all to the fluorescent signals in the imaged time window. This can be seen in the nuclear/membrane signal of the movies, which is largely uniform across the tissue in z in the neural tissue. It can also be seen that the notochord cells, further ventral, appears to be dimmer.

      (2) It is critical for the validity of this study that the intensity of the patched reporter introduced by the authors in 2012, and used again in this study, faithfully represents the signaling activity of Shh. In this study, the authors provide measurements of the transcriptional rate of Kaede and additional modeling for this purpose. However, an important point is to determine how sensitive is the reporter to changes in Shh signaling of different magnitudes?

      We consider this BAC reporter line a good (probably still the best live reporter) one as it resolves the endogenous gradient up to the dorsal interneuron domains (Huang et al., 2012, Xiong et al., 2013) and responds well to perturbations (Notch, Cyclopamine, etc). But it’s true that we don’t have information of how sensitive it responds to changes of different magnitude. As far as we know, there is no in vivo, single cell information of how Shh targets respond to signaling of different magnitudes.

      (3) To strengthen the previous point, it would be nice to extend the analysis in Figure 2, at least partially, using other readouts for Shh activity (e.g. GBS-GFP)?

      We have used a GBS-RFP line previously and found it to be lower resolution in terms of showing the DV gradient, compared to ptch2:kaede.

      (4) It is unclear to me what is the relevant time window during which cells respond to Shh in the anterior versus posterior domains to determine progenitor specification. This is a concern to me, since: i) the average heterogeneity of Shh activity seems to increase strongly in time (Figure 2A/C); and ii) it is important to exclude that the finding of heterogeneous relationship between Shh activity and fate choices is largely driven by later timepoints, where potentially its activity is no longer relevant for cell fate specification. Can this point be clarified when this data is introduced in the manuscript and further discussed?

      Yes this is an important point/caveat of live signaling and fate tracking. As discussed in the manuscript, due to the sensitivity limit of fluorescent imaging, it’s difficult to determine the time when cells start to respond to the signal, and how variable that is from cell to cell. The posterior cells may be more variable in either spatial or temporal responses compared to the anterior and we are not able to distinguish that.

      (i) The ptch2:kaede reporter variability is higher in terms of magnitude (the signal gets brighter) in later times but the heterogeneity (overlap between difference cell fate groups) is lower in later times

      (ii) Similarly, the heterogenous relationship is more pronounced in early time points. Since we do not know exactly when the activity becomes no longer relevant (from our earlier studies we do think that the cells become specified early, when Shh signaling is noisy), we modelled the response profile and searched for a good predictor. The maximum response stands out, particularly as a good indicator for the posterior cells, suggests an early window/time of specification.

      Discussion has been modified to clarify these points.

      (5) Is the response of the patched reporter, as well as cell fate reporters, to defined concentrations of exogenously provided Shh heterogeneous, for instance, in in vitro experiments?

      Well-controlled (e.g., microfluidics and labeled Shh molecules) in vitro experiments will be fantastic future directions. Existing tissue explant + Shh dose approaches do not resolve the heterogeneity of exposure at single cell level but may be helpful in testing the limits and variabilities at different magnitudes.

      (6) The source of noise in this system is not entirely clear to me. The authors seem to attribute the heterogeneity they observe to the way cells respond to Shh, but can it be excluded that the morphogen profile is itself noisy to start with? It is currently difficult to distinguish between these two possibilities, given that the Shh activity reporter used in this study is itself a transcriptional output of the pathway. Can the distribution of Shh itself be analyzed (even if in immunostainings) during neural tube formation?

      Yes we fully agree. More quantitative analysis may help dissecting the sources of noise. The morphogen profile (particularly through time) will be great. Currently no reagent is available to achieve that. Studies using an engineered morphogen or tagged morphogen suggest that the pattern through tissue reasonably captures simple diffusion dynamics. However, at single cell level considerable randomness may still remain and difficult to quantitatively compare with still staining.

      (7) It is unclear to me how the authors define the ultimate cell fate of cells in their analysis in Figure 6. The brief description in the methods and in the manuscript seems to suggest that, in combination with marker expression, the cell position is used as a criteria to assign the fate to the progenitors - if this is the case, I guess the observed relationship in Figure 6 with LMDV distance is almost a control? This could be clarified for the readers.

      Yes indeed Figure 6 is a control as LMDV distances lead to final positions which form part of our determination of cell fates.

      As established by others’ and our previous studies (See also Fig.1A), the identification of MFPs and LFPs in zebrafish spinal cord is very robust. The MFPs are the apical constricted single column of cells along the midline on top of the notochord, and the LFPs are the 2 columns of cells next to MFP on both sides. LFPs’ expression of olig2:gfp did vary more in the posterior (timing of response/commitment could be a factor as the reviewer pointed out), but eventually the cells at those positions will be V3 interneurons or floor plates and have not been observed to make motoneurons. There are 3 low Olig2:GFP pMNs in the anterior dataset (Fig.2B’) and 3 high Olig2:GFP LFPs in the posterior dataset (Fig.2D’) that we checked carefully.

      The methods of fate determination are described in detail in methods.

      (8) The graphs in Figures 6 and 7 are difficult to interpret. What proportion, and absolute number, of cells are "mis specified" when the authors show the distinct colored lines in the pMN, LFP or more dorsal domains? How do the authors determine where each cell fate domain begins and ends to access for "mis-specified" cells? Can the authors also provide the corresponding experimental images in the figure?

      We apologize for the difficulties to interpret these figures. The graphs are a ranked list of all cells using the specified metric. The visual is to help generate an intuition of how mixed vs clear-cut the pattern is given the tested metric. They are not to be interpreted as the actual pattern in the tissue and there are no data images that show these patterns.

      (9) Given the experimental limitations/technical challenges discussed by the authors during the paper, the score of around 90% of predictability of cell fate choices is rather high in the anterior domain, suggesting a minor functional role for heterogeneity in this region. Even for the posterior domain, the score of 83% predictability based on the maximum response to Shh is still relatively high. In my view, this author's conclusions should be adjusted to make this difference clearer in the abstract and discussion, highlighting that the heterogeneity between Shh response and cell fate choices, particularly in the pMN fate, are stronger in the posterior domain affecting the precision of cell fate decisions particularly in this region. Can the authors further comment on potential mechanisms driving this difference?

      Yes – we agree that most cells are actually accurate in such a highly dynamic tissue. In the literature, the view has been more focused on how the GRN enables this accuracy. We therefore highlighted the heterogeneity and limit of accuracy of the GRN here.

      We have added the fact that the Shh response is still the main determinant of the pattern despite the heterogeneity in the Discussion. We also further discussed possibilities of the anterior posterior differences.

      (10) Following up from the previous point, the data in Figure 7 suggests that there might be different underlying mechanisms in how anterior and posterior cells interpret the Shh profile, with anterior cells potentially responding to the integrated concentration of Shh (since response time, average response, or maximum response to Shh all provide similar predictability scores for cell fate choices). In contrast, only the maximum response to Shh can provide a good prediction of posterior cell fate, consistent with a more instantaneous response to morphogen concentration (and thus potentially more error-prone measurement of the Shh profile?). This is a very interesting observation in my view. Could this be further tested?

      Thank you. Yes we found this very interesting too. We discussed the possibilities, including the reviewer’s suggestion that these cells may have different contexts or strategy to interpret the signal. It is also possible that the anterior cells use the same strategy (maximum response at an early time) and the subsequent response/duration do not matter to their fate commitment. A precise approach to shut down Shh response dynamics in single cells (e.g., optogenetics) will enable the test of these ideas. We hope following up studies will take such approaches.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      (1) Conceptual framing and interpretation:

      The central conclusion may require more precise framing to avoid potential overreach. The authors' interpretation equating "physical distance between TAD boundaries" with overall "TAD boundary architecture," and "transcriptional bursting events" with broader "gene activity," could benefit from clarification. This framing may not fully capture the temporal dynamics of transcription or the regulatory complexity within TADs. Furthermore, the broad conclusion of an uncoupled relationship appears to challenge extensive prior evidence from perturbation studies showing that disrupting TAD boundaries can alter gene expression. The authors' own observation of reduced gene activity upon RAD21 degradation suggests that global TAD disruption can affect transcription. A more precise and limited conclusion, acknowledging that their data demonstrate a lack of detectable correlation between boundary distance and bursting activity in their system, would be more accurate and help reconcile these findings with the existing literature.

      We have modified statements throughout the manuscript, including in the title, to enhance the precision of our conclusions to avoid overreach. We have also added on p. 16 of our Discussion, a separate section on the limitations of the study, noting that our conclusions are limited to TAD boundary distances and do not reflect the structure of TAD boundaries or of TADs themselves. We have also expanded our Discussion of possible TAD functions on p. 14/15.

      (2) Technical methods and data presentation:

      (2.1) Accuracy and dimensionality of distance measurements: The manuscript does not clearly state whether distances are measured in 2D or 3D, nor does it sufficiently address precision limits. The stated Z-step size (1 µm) may be inadequate for accurately measuring sub-micron chromatin distances in 3D.

      We state in both the Results and Methods that our data represent 2D distances derived from maximal-intensity projections of 3D image stacks. We previously published a detailed analysis of the precision of this measurement approach applied to chromatin interactions and documented the effect of 2D vs 3D analysis on these types of measurements. This study by Finn et al., 2022 is cited in the text. We also show in Figure S3 and mention on p. 6 and 10 that we observe similar results using either 2D or 3D analysis.

      (2.2) Probe design and systematic error: The genomic coverage size of the BAC probes used for DNA FISH is not explicitly stated. Large probe coverage could inherently blur the precise spatial location of adjacent DNA loci. The reported average distance (~300 nm) may be influenced by the physical size of the probes, as well as systematic expansion or distortion introduced by sample fixation and FISH processing. Although such technical limitations are currently unavoidable, the authors should clarify how these factors might affect their ability to detect subtle distance changes.

      The genomic location and size of all probes are provided in Supplementary Table 1. We deliberately use relatively large BAC probes both to generate robust, highly reproducible signals and to eliminate effects arising from local chromatin behavior. In line with earlier characterization of BAC probes (Finn et al., Cell, 2019; Finn et al., Methods, 2022), we find a strong correlation between micro-C/Hi_C interaction frequency and distance measurements. Systematic errors such as sample fixation and FISH processing have previously been evaluated by comparison to live cell data (see Finn et al., 2019) and found to be negligible, especially as all our analyses involve pairwise comparisons, which would both be similarly affected by systematic errors. We discuss resolution limits due to probe size in our new section on study limitations on p. 16.

      (2.3) Data Visualization: The manuscript would benefit from including representative, zoomed-in regions of interest from the raw imaging data. This would allow readers to visually assess measured distance differences against background noise.

      Raw images for inspection at any magnification are available at https://figshare.com/projects/_b_TAD_boundaries_and_gene_activity_are_uncoupled_b_/271078.

      (2.4) Potential impact of resolution limits: In Figure 5, the micro-C data reveal a clear difference in interaction patterns inside versus outside the VARS2 locus TAD, yet the imaging data show no corresponding distance difference. This strongly suggests that the current imaging system, limited by optical resolution, probe size, and localisation accuracy, may be unable to resolve finer-scale spatial reorganizations associated with specific chromatin conformations (e.g., enhancer-promoter loops). The authors should explicitly discuss that their conclusion of "no coupling observed" may be constrained by the resolution and sensitivity of their method and does not preclude the possibility of detecting such associations with higher-precision measurements or in live-cell dynamics.

      We generally see good agreement between micro-C/Hi-C data and distance measurements. Specifically, we consistently find closer proximity of boundaries than non-boundaries and larger boundary distances for larger TADs than for smaller ones, as presented throughout the study. Contrary to the reviewer’s statement, this is also true for the VARS2 TAD, where we find statistically significant shorter boundary distances for boundary probes (350 nm) vs the outside control region (390 nm), which correlates with the difference in micro-C interaction score of 5847 vs 2308. These data are shown in Figure 3. Regardless, we mention the issue of resolution due to probe size in the study limitation section on p. 16.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      In untreated cells, the distribution of distance measurements between boundary probes is exceptionally narrow. While depletion of RAD21 clearly demonstrates an ability to detect changes in this distribution, this tight baseline distribution may limit sensitivity to more subtle changes (like those one might expect from transcriptional influences). In addition, the correlation analysis is asymmetric, primarily stratifying by transcriptional status and then comparing boundary distances. Given the central claim that boundary architecture does not influence gene activity, the analysis should be done from the opposite perspective (stratifying by boundary distance).

      We mention the limitations on resolution of our approach in our discussion of study limitations on p. 16. An example of an analysis of stratifying by boundary distance is presented in Figure S3C. The conclusion is the same as stratifying by activity status.

      Strong disruption of boundary distances is only observed upon depletion of cohesin. Notably, this corresponds with the largest changes in gene activity. In contrast, depletion of CTCF actually had minimal impact on boundary distances and also had minimal impact on gene activity. This makes sense in light of previous work, where live cell imaging demonstrated that cohesin is more important for domain-structure, whereas CTCF is only important for blocking cohesin from continuing on, such that the fully formed loop occurs in a very small percentage of cells. Therefore, the fact that disruption of cohesin (more important for internal domain structure) affects gene activity while disruption of CTCF does not is exceptionally interesting but is lacking from the discussion.

      We mention the stronger effect of cohesion depletion compared to CTCF loss on gene expression in multiple locations in the Results and Discussion.

      On a related note, this approach primarily tests the role of boundary interactions rather than domain organization as a whole, and it should be acknowledged that internal domain structures are not directly assessed.

      We have modified statements throughout the manuscript to clearly indicate that our conclusions relate to boundary interactions rather than domain organization as a whole. We also discuss this in our section on study limitations.

      The comparison to work in other organisms (particularly the comparisons made to Drosophila) should be handled with care. The mechanisms underlying domain formation differ substantially across these systems, particularly regarding the differences in CTCF's role.

      We have modified our discussion of the data on Drosophila TADs, particularly as it relates to CTCF.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I couldn't locate the image data from figshare with the information provided (DOI: 10.6084/m9.figshare.30728354)

      The link has been updated

      https://figshare.com/projects/_b_TAD_boundaries_and_gene_activity_are_uncoupled_b_/271078.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Some of the conclusions overreach. I recommend revising the claims and discussion to focus solely on the proximity of boundaries, instead of TADs themselves. This would match better with your experiments.

      We have modified statements throughout the manuscript, including in the title, to enhance the precision of our conclusions to avoid overreach. We have also added on p. 16, a separate section on limitations of our study, noting that our conclusions are limited to TAD boundary distances and do not reflect on the structure of the TADs themselves. We have also expanded our Discussion of possible TAD functions on p. 14/15.

      I do disagree with the interpretation of the data in some parts, particularly at the end, where you state that disruption of TADs does not impact gene activity. For example, "Altogether, these results demonstrate that disruption of TAD boundary architecture is insufficient to alter gene expression" doesn't seem to match the results. Sure, depletion of CTCF minimally impacted gene expression, but it also minimally impacted the boundary distances. I think it is interesting that depletion of RAD21 had a bigger impact on both gene expression and boundary distances, and this should be discussed.

      We have deleted this statement and now mention on p. 13 that RAD21 depletion affected gene expression, whereas loss of CTCF did not, and on p. 15 that loss of RAD21 had a greater impact on boundary distances than loss of CTCF. We have also expanded our Discussion of possible TAD functions on p. 14/15.

      Related to this, I also recommend expanding the discussion of prior live-cell imaging work (ref 32) that showed that the fully formed CTCF loop is a rare event.

      We have expanded the discussion of prior live-cell imaging work in several locations.

      All the analysis is done from the perspective of the gene expression (e.g. group by expression and then measure distances). It would help to show that the inverse analysis is consistent (e.g. group by distances and measure gene expression).

      Analysis of data stratified by distance measurements is shown in Figure S3C.

      The discussion of the Drosophila work is strange, given that CTCF in Drosophila has a very different N-terminus, explaining why it doesn't really form loops. Sure, maybe it contributes to domains in some way, but probably no more than the dozens of other architectural proteins that have been found in that system. This work clearly focuses on CTCF-loop domains, so I would be specific about that. In the introduction, you do a good job of saying "in human cells, TADs are.... marked by binding sites for the CTCF protein". However, then you overgeneralize and state that TADs form via a process of loop extrusion. I think a simple statement before this to say that TADs in human cells have become somewhat synonymous with CTCF loop domains, and that is how you will use the term here. However, other organisms have TADs despite the lack of conservation of the CTCF protein.

      We have modified the text accordingly.

      On a related note, in the discussion, you cite two papers in Drosophila to state that "TADs form prior to the establishment of cell-type-specific gene expression programs", but that's not entirely accurate for those papers. They actually show that TADs occur coincident with ZGA, but loops form before that (ref 23: Espinola et al), or that there are indeed a few boundaries that show up before ZGA, but these correspond to RNA Polymerase (ref 24: Ing-Simmons et al.).

      We have corrected this statement.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Although the reviewers agree on the potential importance of this study, they have brought out multiple pertinent queries with respect to the interpretation of some of the results presented in the manuscript, that the authors should consider addressing. The reviewers have also suggested modifications that would increase the clarity of the manuscript.

      We appreciate the thoughtful evaluation of our manuscript by the reviewers and the editor. We are encouraged by their recognition of the importance of our study and have carefully considered all the points raised. In response, we have added new data and revised the text to address the concerns and improve the clarity of the manuscript. Our detailed responses to the reviewers’ comments are provided below.

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, Rosero and Bai examined how the well-known thermosensory neuron in C. elegans, AFD, regulates context-dependent locomotory behavior based on the tactile experience. Here they show that AFD uses discrete cGMP signaling molecules and independent of its dendritic sensory endings regulates this locomotory behavior. The authors also show here that AFD's connection to one of the hub interneurons, AIB, through gap junction/electrical synapses, is necessary and sufficient for the regulation of this context-dependent locomotion modulation.

      Strengths:

      This is an interesting paper showcasing how a sensory neuron in C. elegans can employ a distinct set of molecular strategies and different physical parts to regulate a completely distinct set of behaviors, which were not been shown to be regulated by AFD before. The experiments were well performed and the results are clear. However, there are some questions about the mechanism of this regulation. This reviewer thinks that the authors should address these concerns before the final published version of this manuscript.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The authors argued about the role of prior exposure to different physical contexts which might be responsible for the difference in their locomotory behavior. However, the worms in the binary chamber (with both non-uniformly sized and spaced pillars) experienced both sets of pillars for one hour prior to the assay and they were also free to move between two sets of environments during the assay. So, this is not completely a switch between two different types of tactile barriers (or not completely restricted to prior experience), but rather a difference between experiencing a more complex environment vs a simple uniform environment. They should rephrase their findings. To strictly argue about the prior experience, the authors need to somehow restrict the worms from entering the uniform assay zone during the 1hr training period.

      We agree that, in the original design, worms in the binary chamber experience a more complex physical environment while retaining access to both exploration and assay zones. We have therefore revised the manuscript to more clearly distinguish between behavioral differences due to exposure to a complex environment and modulation driven by prior experience.

      To directly test whether locomotion modulation can be sustained by prior physical experience in the absence of continued access to the exploration zone, we introduced a barrier-based assay that prevents worms from re-entering the exploration zone before locomotion is measured. The results section has been revised accordingly to explicitly address this point.

      Revisions to the manuscript:

      Lines 122-139: Added two paragraphs describing the new assay and summarizing the corresponding results.

      “Because worms in the binary chamber are exposed to both pillar types and remain free to move between exploration and assay zones, the behavioral differences described above could reflect exposure to a more complex physical environment rather than prior experience alone. To directly test whether locomotion is modulated by prior physical experience independently of continued access to the exploration zone, we designed microfluidic chambers in which the assay zone could be separated from the exploration zone by a removable barrier (Fig. 1–Supplement 1A). In these chambers, worms were initially allowed to explore the entire device, including exploration zones that either matched or differed from the assay zone. A barrier was then inserted to prevent worms in the assay zone from re-entering the exploration zones.

      Under these conditions, locomotion immediately after barrier insertion was higher in worms that had previously explored physical settings matching the assay zone (205 ± 8 µm/s) than in worms that had explored non-matching settings (151 ± 7 µm/s; p = 0.006; Fig. 1–Supplement 1B). This difference persisted when worms were recorded 40 minutes after barrier insertion, with animals in matching chamber retaining their higher locomotion rates (218 ± 11 µm/s) compared to those in non-matching chambers (185 ± 8 µm/s; p = 0.02; Fig. 1–Supplement 1B). These findings demonstrate that prior exploration of distinct physical environments can modulate locomotion even when worms are prevented from returning to those environments, supporting a role for prior physical experience independent of ongoing sensory input.”

      Figure 1–Supplement 1: New figure showing the experimental design and behavioral results.

      (2) The authors here argued that the sensory endings of AFD are not required for this novel role of AFD in context-dependent locomotion modulation. However, gcy-18 has been shown to be exclusively localized to the ciliated sensory endings of AFD and even misexpression of GCY-18 in other sensory neurons also leads to localizations in sensory endings (Nguyen et. al., 2014 and Takeishi et. al., 2016). They should check whether gcy-18 or tax-2 gets mislocalized in kcc-3 or tax-1 mutants.

      As the reviewer suggested, we examined GCY-18 localization in wild type animals and in mutants with defective sensory microvilli using a split-GFP strategy (He et al., 2019). We generated a gcy18::gfp11×7 knock-in strain using CRISPR–Cas9 to visualize endogenous GCY-18 localization. Consistent with prior studies, GCY-18 localized strongly to the AFD dendritic ending in wild-type animals (Figure 4– Supplement 1A, A′, A′′), with an additional weaker signal detectable near the soma and axon (Figure 4– Supplement 1A′′′).

      In kcc-3 mutants, GCY-18 remained localized to the distal dendrite despite disruption of sensory microvillar morphology (Figure 4–Supplement 1B–B′′). Similarly, in ttx-1 mutants, which completely lack AFD sensory microvilli, GCY-18 still localized to the distal dendrite (Figure 4–Supplement 1C–C′′) and remained detectable near the soma and axon (Figure 4–Supplement 1C′′′).

      In the revised manuscript, we clarify both the implications and the limitations of these imaging experiments, noting that “although these experiments do not identify the precise subcellular site at which GCY-18 acts, they show that disruption of sensory microvilli does not substantially alter GCY-18 localization within AFD.” The exact site at which GCY-18 functions to support locomotion modulation therefore remains an important open question for future investigation.

      Revisions to the manuscript:

      Figure 4-Supplement 1: Added a new figure reporting GCY-18 localization in wild type and mutant worms.

      Lines 268-280: Added a new paragraph reporting GCY-18 localization in wild type, kcc-3, and ttx-1 mutants and clarifying its relevance to the reviewer’s concern.

      “Given that gcy-18 is required for context-dependent locomotion modulation and that GCY-18 localizes to the distal dendrite of AFD, we next examined how disruption of sensory microvilli affects its localization in AFD. We used a split-GFP strategy to visualize endogenous GCY-18 [73]. A tandem array of seven GFP11 β-strands (GFP11x7) was inserted at the C-terminus of GCY-18 using CRISPR-Cas9. When complemented with GFP1-10, GCY-18::GFP11x7 fluorescence was strongly enriched at the AFD sensory microvilli near the nose (Fig. 4–Supplement 1A-A′′), consistent with previous reports [42,74,75]. In addition, weaker but reproducible GCY-18 signal was detected near the AFD soma and axon (Fig. 4–Supplement 1A′′′). Importantly, in kcc-3, which exhibit disrupted sensory microvilli, and ttx-1 mutants, which lack sensory microvilli, GCY-18 remained localized to the distal dendrite and was still detectable near the soma and axon (Fig. 4–Supplement 1B-B′′’ and 1C-C′′′). Although these experiments do not identify the precise subcellular site at which GCY-18 acts, they show that disruption or loss of sensory microvilli does not substantially alter GCY-18 localization within AFD.”

      (3) MEC-10 was shown to be required for physical space preference through its action in FLP and not the TRNs (PMID: 28349862). Since FLP is involved in harsh touch sensation while TRNs are involved in gentle touch sensation, which are the neuron types responsible for tactile sensation in the assay arena? Does mec-10 rescue in TRNs rescue the phenotype in the current paper?

      We performed cell-specific rescue experiments of mec-10. Single-copy expression of mec-10 cDNA in either FLP neurons alone (egl-44p) or TRNs alone (mec-18p) did not restore context-dependent locomotion modulation (Fig. 5A). In contrast, co-expression in both FLP and TRNs (egl-44p::mec-10 + mec18p::mec-10), as well as expression from the mec-10 promoter, rescued the phenotype.

      These results indicate that input from multiple mec-10-expressing neurons, including both FLP and TRNs, is required for context-dependent locomotion adjustment. This requirement differs from spatial preference behavior, where mec-10 acts specifically in FLP (Han et al., 2017), suggesting distinct mechanosensory circuits are engaged by different tactile-driven behaviors.

      Revisions to the manuscript:

      Fig. 5A: Updated to include the cell-specific rescue data.

      Lines 317-331: Added a new paragraph describing these findings.

      “The mec-10 gene is expressed in several mechanosensory neurons, including the six touch receptor neurons (TRNs) and the polymodal nociceptors FLP and PVD [77,79]. To determine which neurons are required for tactile-dependent locomotion modulation, we expressed mec-10 cDNA under cell-specific promoters: mec-18p (TRNs) [80], egl-44p (FLP) [81], or mec-10p (TRNs, FLP, and PVD) [79]. Expression in either FLP or TRNs alone did not restore modulation, as worms carrying egl-44p::mec-10 (Δspeed: -11± 4%) or mec-18p::mec-10 (Δspeed: -13 ± 4%) transgenes showed significantly reduced Δspeed compared to wild type (Δ speed: N2: 33 ± 6%; p < 0.0001 for both; Fig. 5A). By contrast, mec-10 co-expression in both FLP and TRNs (Δspeed: 16 ± 4%), or expression from the mec-10 promoter (Δspeed: 23 ± 4%), restored Δ speed to wild type levels (p = 0.20 and p = 0.57, respectively; Fig. 5A). These findings indicate that mec10 expression across multiple mechanosensory neuron types is required for context-dependent locomotion modulation. It is also worth noting that, while both tactile-dependent locomotion modulation and previously reported spatial preference require FLP, only the former depends on TRNs. Together, these findings suggest that distinct subsets of mechanosensory neurons differentially contribute to behaviors shaped by tactile experience.”

      (4) The authors mention that the most direct link between TRNs and AFD is through AIB, but as far as I understand, there are no reports to suggest synapses between TRNs and AIB. However, FLP and AIB are connected through both chemical and electrical synapses, which would make more sense as per their mec10 data. (the authors mentioned about the FLP-AIB-AFD circuit in their discussion but talked about TRNs as the sensory modality). mec-10 rescue experiment in TRNs would clarify this ambiguity.

      We agree with the reviewer that there are no reported synapses between TRNs and AIB, and we have revised Fig. 5 and the corresponding text to clarify this point. In the revised manuscript, we removed any implication of a direct TRN-AIB connection and instead focus on the established FLP-AIB-AFD pathway, while considering potential indirect contributions from TRNs.

      As the reviewer suggested, we performed cell-specific mec-10 rescue experiments. Expression of mec-10 in either FLP alone or TRNs alone was insufficient to restore tactile-dependent locomotion modulation, whereas co-expression in both cell types rescued the phenotype (revised Fig. 5A). These results indicate that FLP is essential for this behavior, consistent with the known FLP-AIB-AFD connectivity, and that TRNs are also required.

      Given that TRNs lack direct synapses with AIB, TRN requirement suggests the involvement of indirect communication, likely mediated through modulatory mechanisms such as neuropeptide signaling. Accordingly, we have revised the model (revised Fig. 5C) and the corresponding text to clarify that tactiledependent locomotion modulation integrates inputs from multiple mec-10-expressing neurons and does not rely on a direct TRN-AIB synaptic connection.

      Revisions to the manuscript:

      Lines 334–345: Revised paragraph to clarify circuit logic and remove implication of direct TRN-AIB synapses.

      “Touch-sensitive neurons that express mec-10, including TRNs, FLP, and PVD, do not form direct synapses with AFD, suggesting that tactile information is relayed through intermediary neurons. Because the interneuron AIB receives synaptic input from FLP and forms electrical synapses with AFD, we hypothesized that AIB could serve as a conduit for mechanosensory signals to reach AFD. To test whether AIB is required for tactile-dependent modulation, we examined locomotion in worms with genetically ablated AIB neurons using npr-9p::caspase expression [82]. AIB-ablated worms failed to adjust locomotion speed, showing a near-complete loss of modulation (∆speed: -1 ± 5%) compared to wild type (30 ± 8%, p = 0.001, Fig. 5B). These results demonstrate that AIB is required for AFD-mediated tactile-dependent locomotion modulation. However, because mec-10-expressing TRNs are also required, additional pathways beyond AIB likely contribute to transmitting tactile information to AFD, potentially involving indirect synaptic connections through other interneurons or long-distance signaling via neuropeptides or other modulators (Fig. 5C).”

      Fig. 5: Updated to include new cell-specific mec-10 rescue data and revised model.

      (5) Do inx-7 or inx-10 rescue in AFD and AIB using cell-specific promoters rescue the behavior?

      Yes. We tested this during revision. Using the AFD-specific srtx-1b promoter, we expressed inx10 cDNA selectively in AFD neurons of inx-10 mutant worms. This manipulation significantly restored tactile-dependent locomotion modulation compared to non-transgenic inx-10 mutants (Fig. 6D), demonstrating that inx-10 expression in AFD alone is sufficient to rescue the behavioral defect.

      Revisions to the manuscript:

      Line 366-370: Added a description of the AFD-specific inx-10 rescue results.

      “We next tested whether restoring inx-10 specifically in AFD would be sufficient to rescue the behavioral defect. Using the AFD-specific srtx-1b promoter, we expressed inx-10 cDNA in inx-10 mutant worms. These transgenic animals displayed significantly improved locomotion modulation (∆speed: 42 ± 5%) compared to non-transgenic inx-10 mutants (15 ± 4%; p = 0.018; Fig. 6D), indicating that inx-10 expression in AFD alone is sufficient to restore function.”

      Fig. 6D: Updated to include new cell-specific inx-10 rescue data.

      (6) How Guanylyl cyclase gcy-18 function is related to the electrical synapse activity between AFD and AIB? Is AFD downstream or upstream of AIB in this context?

      At present, the precise relationship between GCY-18 signaling and the AFD-AIB electrical synapse is not fully resolved. Given that AIB receives mechanosensory input from FLP, it is likely that AIB acts upstream of AFD during tactile-dependent locomotion modulation. However, because the AIB-AFD connection is mediated by gap junctions, communication could also be bi-directional, especially since small signaling molecules such as cGMP and Ca<sup>2+</sup> are known to diffuse through electrical synapses.

      We have therefore revised the manuscript to state explicitly that the directionality of information flow between AFD and AIB remains open, and that this will be an important question for future investigation (Line 455-458).

      “Together, these findings support a model in which AIB functions as a hub neuron that relays mechanosensory input from FLP to AFD to modulate locomotion (Fig. 5C). However, because electrical synapses are often bidirectional, information flow may also occur in the opposite direction, from AFD to AIB.”

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The goal of the study was to uncover the mechanisms mediating tactile-context-dependent locomotion modulation in C. elegans, which represents an interesting model of behavioral plasticity. Starting from a candidate genetic screen focusing on guanylate cyclase (GCY) mutants, the authors identified the AFDspecific gcy-18 gene as essential for tactile-context-dependent locomotion modulation. AFD is primarily characterized as a thermo-sensory neuron. However, key thermosensory transduction genes and the sensory ending structure of AFD were shown here to be dispensable for tactile-context locomotion modulation. AFD actuates tactile-context locomotion modulation via the cell-autonomous actions of GCY-18 and the CNG-3 cyclic nucleotide-gated channel, and via AFD's connection with AIB interneurons through electrical synapses. This represents a potentially relevant synaptic connection linking AFD to the mechanosensory-behavior circuit.

      Strengths:

      (1) The fact that AFD mediates tactile-context locomotion modulation is new, rather surprising, and interesting.

      (2) The authors have combined a very clever microfluidic-based behavioral assay with a large set of genetic manipulations to dissect the molecular and cellular pathways involved. Rescue experiments with singlecopy transgenes are very convincing.

      (3) The study is very clearly written, and figures are nicely illustrated with diagrams that effectively convey the authors' interpretation.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Whereas GCY-18 in AFD and the AFD-AIB synaptic connection clearly play a role in tactile-context locomotion modulation, whether and how they actually modulate the mechanosensory circuit and/or locomotion circuit remains unclear. The possibility of non-synaptic communication linking mechanosensory neurons and AFD (in either direction) was not explored. Thus, in the end, we have not learned much about what GCY-18 and the AFD-AIB module are doing to actuate tactile context-dependent locomotion modulation.

      We agree with the reviewer that although GCY-18 in AFD and the AFD-AIB connection are clearly required for tactile context-dependent locomotion modulation, the precise mechanisms by which they influence mechanosensory and locomotor circuits remain unresolved. In particular, the possibility of nonsynaptic communication or bidirectional signaling between mechanosensory neurons and AFD cannot be addressed by the current experiments and warrants future investigation.

      At the same time, we believe this study reveals several previously unrecognized aspects of tactiledependent locomotion modulation that provide a foundation for future mechanistic investigation.

      Specifically, we show that (i) GCY-18 functions in AFD to support tactile-dependent locomotion modulation; (ii) the cGMP-gated channel TAX-4, required for thermosensation, is dispensable for this process, whereas CNG-3 is required, revealing functional specialization within AFD; (iii) the interneuron AIB is necessary for this modulation; and (iv) restoring a single electrical connection between AFD and AIB using mammalian Cx36 is sufficient to rescue tactile-dependent modulation in innexin mutants.

      Accordingly, we now explicitly state in the revised Discussion that “a limitation of this study is that the directionality and mode of information flow between AFD and AIB remain unresolved, and defining this relationship will be an important goal for future investigation” (Line 472-475).

      (2) The authors only focused on speed readout, and we don't know if the many behavioral parameters that are modulated by tactile context are also under the control of AFD-mediated modulation.

      We used locomotion speed as the primary behavioral readout because it provides a robust measure for detecting whether behavior is modified by prior tactile experience, rather than to capture the full spectrum of motor outputs. This strategy is often used to assess experience-dependent behavioral plasticity across sensory modalities and enabled us to uncover the unexpected role of AFD in tactile-dependent plasticity.

      In the revised manuscript, we expanded our analysis to include additional behavioral parameters. As described in the Results, AFD-ablated worms showed a complete loss of context-dependent modulation not only in speed, but also in idle time and turning frequency, with no detectable differences between uniform and binary chambers (Fig. 4E). These data strengthen the conclusion that AFD broadly supports tactiledependent behavioral modulation rather than selectively affecting a single locomotor parameter.

      Revisions to the manuscript:

      Fig. 4E: Revised panel to include additional locomotion parameters, including idle time and turning frequency, in wild type and AFD-ablated worms.

      Lines 283–285: Expanded the results to describe changes in locomotion speed, idle time, or turning frequency of AFD-ablated mutant worms. “These animals showed no detectable differences between uniform and binary chambers in locomotion speed, idle time, or turning frequency (Fig. 4E).”

      (3) The AFD-AIB gap junction reconstruction experiment was conducted in an innexin double mutant background, in which the whole nervous system's functioning might be severely impaired, and its results should be interpreted with this limitation in mind.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s concern that the innexin double-mutant background may broadly affect nervous system function, and we agree that loss of innexins is not restricted to the AFD-AIB synapse and could introduce global circuit perturbations.

      Importantly, however, the specificity of the rescue is informative. In an innexin double-mutant background, where electrical coupling is broadly disrupted, re-establishing a single electrical synapse between AFD and AIB using Cx36 was sufficient to restore tactile-dependent locomotion modulation (Fig. 6D). The ability of a targeted AFD-AIB connection to rescue behavior despite the absence of many other electrical synapses argues against a purely global network defect and instead identifies the AFD-AIB electrical synapse as a critical locus for this modulation.

      To further address this concern, we performed an additional rescue experiment in a less perturbed genetic background. In the revised manuscript, we show that AFD-specific expression of inx-10 rescues locomotion modulation in inx-10 single mutants (Fig. 6D). Together, these complementary rescue approaches, one restoring endogenous innexin function in AFD and the other reconstituting an electrical synapse using Cx36, support the conclusion that AFD-AIB electrical coupling is sufficient to enable tactile-dependent locomotion modulation, rather than reflecting nonspecific recovery of global circuit function.

      Revision to the manuscript:

      Fig. 6D and Lines 366-370: Added new data and revised text showing that AFD-specific inx-10 expression restores tactile-dependent locomotion modulation.

      “We next tested whether restoring inx-10 specifically in AFD would be sufficient to rescue the behavioral defect. Using the AFD-specific srtx-1b promoter, we expressed inx-10 cDNA in inx-10 mutant worms. These transgenic animals displayed significantly improved locomotion modulation (∆speed: 42 ± 5%) compared to non-transgenic inx-10 mutants (15 ± 4%; p = 0.018; Fig. 6D), indicating that inx-10 expression in AFD alone is sufficient to restore function.”

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Rosero and Bai report an unconventional role of AFD neurons in mediating tactile-dependent locomotion modulation, independent of their well-established thermosensory function. They partially elucidate the signaling mechanisms underlying this AFD-dependent behavioral modulation. The regulation does not require the sensory dendritic endings of AFD but rather the AFD neurons themselves. This process involves a distinct set of cGMP signaling proteins and CNG channel subunits separate from those involved in thermosensation or thermotaxis. Furthermore, the authors demonstrate that AIB interneurons connect AFD to mechanosensory circuits through electrical synapses. They conclude that, beyond its primary function in thermosensation, AFD contributes to context-dependent neuroplasticity and behavioral modulation via broader circuit connectivity.

      While the discovery of multifunctionality in AFD is not entirely unexpected, given the limited number of neurons in C. elegans (302 in total), the molecular and cellular mechanisms underlying this AFD-dependent behavioral modulation, as revealed in this study, provide valuable insights into the field.

      Strengths:

      (1) The authors uncover a novel role of AFD neurons in mediating tactile-dependent locomotion modulation, distinct from their well-established thermosensory function.

      (2) They provide partial insights into the signaling mechanisms underlying this AFD-dependent behavioral modulation.

      (3) The neural behavior assays utilizing two types of microfluidic chambers (uniform and binary chambers) are innovative and well-designed.

      (4) By comparing AFD's role in locomotion modulation to its thermosensory function throughout the study, the authors present strong evidence supporting these as two independent functions of AFD.

      (5) The finding that AFD contributes to context-dependent behavioral modulation is significant, further reinforcing the growing evidence that individual neurons can serve multiple functions through broader circuit connectivity.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Limited Behavioral Assays: The study relies solely on neural behavior assays conducted using two types of microfluidic chambers (uniform and binary chambers) to assess context-dependent locomotion modulation. No additional behavioral assays were performed. To strengthen the conclusions, the authors should validate their findings using an independent method, at the very least by testing AFD-ablated animals and gcy-18 mutants with a second behavioral approach.

      The reviewer points out that the original study relied on locomotion assays in two microfluidic environments (uniform and binary chambers) and suggests validation using an independent behavioral approach, particularly for AFD-ablated animals and gcy-18 mutants.

      To address this concern, we developed an independent behavioral assay in which the exploration and assay environments are physically separated by a removable barrier (Figure 1–Supplement 1A). In this design, worms first explored distinct physical settings, after which a barrier was inserted to confine them to an identical assay zone. This approach allowed us to directly test whether context-dependent locomotion modulation can be maintained when worms are prevented from re-entering the exploration environment and must rely solely on prior experience.

      Using this assay, we found that wild-type worms that had previously explored environments matching the assay zone moved significantly faster than those that had explored non-matching environments (Figure 1– Supplement 1B-C). These results demonstrate that context-dependent locomotion modulation is retained even when ongoing sensory input from the exploration zone is eliminated, independently validating our original findings using a distinct behavioral paradigm.

      Further, using this same assay, we found that locomotion modulation was significantly impaired in both gcy-18 mutants and AFD-ablated worms (Figure 4–Supplement 2A). Together, these results provide independent behavioral evidence supporting the conclusion that AFD and gcy-18 are required for contextdependent locomotion modulation.

      Revision to the manuscript:

      Figure 1–Supplement 1A: Added schematic and results from the removable-barrier assay in wild type animals.

      Lines 120-137: Added corresponding Results text describing the new assay and wild-type behavior.

      “Because worms in the binary chamber are exposed to both pillar types and remain free to move between exploration and assay zones, the behavioral differences described above could reflect exposure to a more complex physical environment rather than prior experience alone. To directly test whether locomotion is modulated by prior physical experience independently of continued access to the exploration zone, we designed microfluidic chambers in which the assay zone could be separated from the exploration zone by a removable barrier (Fig. 1–Supplement 1A). In these chambers, worms were initially allowed to explore the entire device, including exploration zones that either matched or differed from the assay zone. A barrier was then inserted to prevent worms in the assay zone from re-entering the exploration zones.

      Under these conditions, locomotion immediately after barrier insertion was higher in worms that had previously explored physical settings matching the assay zone (205 ± 8 µm/s) than in worms that had explored non-matching settings (151 ± 7 µm/s; p = 0.006; Fig. 1–Supplement 1B). This difference persisted when worms were recorded 40 minutes after barrier insertion, with animals in matching chamber retaining their higher locomotion rates (218 ± 11 µm/s) compared to those in non-matching chambers (185 ± 8 µm/s; p = 0.02; Fig. 1–Supplement 1B). These findings demonstrate that prior exploration of distinct physical environments can modulate locomotion even when worms are prevented from returning to those environments, supporting a role for prior physical experience independent of ongoing sensory input.” Figure 4–Supplement 2A: Added data for gcy-18 mutants and AFD-ablated worms in the removable barrier assay.

      Lines 288-296: Added text describing behavioral defects in gcy-18 mutants and AFD-ablated worms using the new assay.

      “Building on our finding that locomotion modulation can be driven by prior physical experience even after worms are prevented from re-entering the exploration zones, we next tested whether AFD is required for this modulation using chambers in which the exploration and assay zones were separated by a removable barrier (Fig. 1–Supplement 1A). Under these conditions, locomotion modulation was significantly reduced in AFD-ablated worms (∆speed: -AFD = 1 ± 6% vs. N2 = 23 ± 7%; p = 0.036; Fig. 4–Supplement 2A). Similarly, gcy-18 mutants showed defective locomotion modulation (∆speed: gcy-18 = -1 ± 8% vs. N2 = 23 ± 7%; p = 0.034; Fig. 4–Supplement 2A). These results indicate that AFD and gcy-18 are required to generate locomotion modulation in response to recent physical experience, even when continued access to surrounding environments is restricted.”

      (2) Clarity in Behavioral Assay Methodology: The methodology for conducting the behavioral assays is unclear. It appears that worms were free to move between the exploration and assay zones, with no control over the duration each worm spent in either zone. This lack of regulation may introduce variability in tactile experience across individuals, potentially affecting the reproducibility and quantitativeness of the method. The authors should clarify whether and how they accounted for this variability.

      In the primary assay, worms were allowed to move freely between the exploration and assay zones for one hour, and each animal’s tactile experience depended on its exploratory trajectory. To address the resulting variability, we performed an a priori power analysis, which determined that approximately 160 worms distributed across more than 20 chambers per condition were sufficient to obtain reliable populationlevel measurements. This sampling strategy was applied consistently across all experiments. Accordingly, analyses emphasize well-powered population means rather than individual trajectories, ensuring robust and reproducible comparisons despite variability in individual experience.

      In addition, as described above, we developed a removable-barrier assay that eliminates variability from ongoing exploration by confining worms to the assay zone after a defined exploration period. The consistency of behavioral effects across both assays further supports the robustness and reproducibility of the approach.

      (3) Potential Developmental and Behavioral Confounds in Mutant Analysis: Several neuronal mutant strains were used in this study, yet the effects of these mutations on development and general behavior (e.g., movement ability) were not discussed. Although young adult worms were used for behavioral assays, were they at similar biological ages? To rule out confounding factors, locomotion assays assessing movement ability should be conducted (see reference PMID 25561524).

      To address the possibility that behavioral phenotypes in mutant strains arise from developmental defects or impaired general locomotion, we directly measured locomotion speed on agar plates and body length in gcy-18 mutant and AFD-ablated worms. Neither genotype showed defects in basal locomotion speed or body length compared to wild type animals (Figure 4–Supplement 2B-C), indicating that the observed modulation defects are not explained by impaired development or gross motor ability.

      To further control for developmental variability, all behavioral assays were performed using agesynchronized populations. Animals were selected at a defined gravid adult stage, identified by the presence of 5-10 eggs arranged in a single row within the gonad. All mutant strains reached this developmental stage approximately three days after egg laying, comparable to wild type animals.

      Revision to the manuscript:

      Figure 4–Supplement 2B-C: Added quantification of locomotion speed on agar plates and body length for gcy-18 mutants and AFD-ablated worms.

      Lines 297-304: Added text describing the data presented in Figure 4–Supplement 2B-C.

      “Finally, to determine whether the modulation defects observed in gcy-18 mutants and AFD-ablated worms could be attributed to developmental abnormalities or gross motor impairments, we measured locomotion speed and body length on standard NGM plates. Both day-1 adult AFD-ablated worms (speed: 281 ± 10 µm/s; p = 0.33; body length: 1.12 ± 0.01 mm; p = 0.76) and gcy-18 mutants (speed: 291 ± 13 µm/s; p = 0.22; body length: 1.15 ± 0.02 mm; p = 0.86) showed locomotion speeds and body lengths comparable to wild type controls (speed: 252 ± 30 µm/s; body length: 1.14 ± 0.02 mm; Fig. 4–Supplement 2B, C). These results indicate that the loss of context-dependent locomotion modulation is not due to developmental defects or gross impairments in locomotion.”

      (4) Definition and Baseline Measurements for Locomotion Categories: The finding that tax-4 and kcc-3 contribute to basal locomotion but not to context-dependent locomotion modulation is intriguing. The authors argue that distinct mechanisms regulate these two processes; however, the study does not clearly define the concepts of "basal locomotion" and "context-dependent locomotion," nor does it provide baseline measurements. A clear definition and baseline data are needed to support this conclusion.

      We define basal locomotion as the locomotion speed of worms measured in the binary chamber, where wild-type animals consistently exhibit lower locomotion rates. Measurements from the binary chamber therefore serve as the baseline reference for locomotion speed in our microfluidic assays. Context-dependent locomotion modulation is defined as the quantified difference in locomotion speed between worms in uniform chambers and those in binary chambers. These definitions are now stated in:

      Lines 199-201: “We examined the locomotion speed of mutant worms in the binary chambers, which we refer to as the basal speed because wild type worms consistently move slowest in this environment.”

      Lines 645-46: “Asterisks above horizontal black lines indicate statistically significant differences in basal speed, defined as speed of worms in the binary chamber”

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The availability of strains has not been mentioned. This should be addressed.

      The revised Methods section now includes a complete list of strains used in this study, and we have added a statement indicating that all strains are available upon request.

      Minor comment:

      Figure 1C - it should be Idle, not Idel.

      We have corrected the y-axis label in Figure 1C to ‘Idle.’

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      This is an interesting and well-written article, which I greatly appreciated reading. There are a few concerns that the authors should address, in my opinion, to provide a more complete and convincing story.

      Major points:

      (1) Maybe the material transmitted to me was incomplete, but I did not find the gcy gene screen results. It seems important to present the screen results in full, together with the description of the alleles tested for the 24 gcy genes.

      The revised manuscript now includes the complete results of the gcy mutant screen in Figure 2– Supplement 1, with the alleles tested for all 24 gcy genes listed in Table S1.

      (2) I did not find the actual p-values, sample sizes for each condition, or raw data; nor a data availability statement indicating where to retrieve these.

      Statistical significance is indicated by asterisks in all figures, with definitions provided in each figure legend (n.s., p > 0.05; *, p < 0.05; **, p < 0.01; ***, p < 0.001). Sample sizes are shown as individual data points in the plots, and we have now added explicit n values to each figure legend for clarity. A Data Availability Statement has also been added to indicate where the raw data can be accessed. Where possible, we have included exact p-values. For analyses using Tukey-Kramer post hoc tests, p-values are reported to four decimal places, reflecting the output limits of the statistical software used.

      (3) It is not clear why the authors only quantified animal speed for most of the study. What about idle time, turns, and reversals? This choice limits the reach of the study, as we only partly understand what AFD is doing, notably to explain the phenotype in the preference assay.

      Data on idle time, turning frequency, and reversal frequency for wild-type worms are now included in Figure 1F. In addition, we present new data showing that AFD ablation disrupts context-dependent modulation of locomotion speed, idle time, and turning frequency (Figure 4E).

      (4) Figure 2D and related text: these conclusions are based on a single mutant analysis. Were the millionmutation project lines outcrossed? It would be much more convincing if more gcy alleles were tested (this should be relatively easy since classical alleles are available at the CGC for gcy-8 and gcy-18).

      The million-mutation project lines used in this study were outcrossed prior to analysis. In addition, we confirmed that the observed defects were specifically due to loss of gcy-18 function by rescuing the phenotype through expression of gcy-18 cDNA under AFD-specific promoters. This cell-specific rescue shows that the behavioral defects arise from disruption of gcy-18 rather than from background mutations.

      (5) It is hard to interpret the speed phenotype when the authors switch between Delta speed and absolute speed display from one figure to another, or even from one panel to another. If only tax-4 and kcc-3 display a constitutive speed phenotype, then there should be no problem showing the absolute speed data in every panel. This is important to convince the reader that major speed changes in mutants are not biasing the interpretation based on Deltas. Indeed, if some mutants move very fast, there might be a ceiling effect. Conversely, if they move very slowly, there might be a 'sickness' effect. Both effects could prevent seeing a tactile-context-dependent modulation, and the results would need to be interpreted much more carefully. Providing the full view on absolute speed levels would also really help support the whole discussion paragraph about the differential regulation of constitutive versus context-dependent locomotion (from L339 onward).

      We focus on ∆speed because it directly quantifies experience-dependent locomotion modulation relative to each strain’s own baseline, making it an appropriate metric for comparing tactile plasticity across genotypes. This approach avoids confounding effects from strain-specific differences in overall locomotion levels.

      At the same time, we agree that absolute locomotion speed is important to consider when interpreting behavioral phenotypes. To address this, we added plate-based locomotion speed and body length measurements for two key genotypes that lack modulation, gcy-18 mutants and AFD-ablated worms (Figure 4–Supplement 2B–C). Both exhibit normal locomotion on agar plates, indicating that their defects in tactiledependent modulation are not due to impaired motor ability or general sickness.

      In addition, among the mutants tested in microfluidic chambers, tax-4 mutants display elevated basal speed yet retain robust context-dependent modulation, indicating that ceiling effects do not limit detection of modulation.

      (6) The gap junction expression is a nice experiment. But there is a major limitation that should be stated: the electrical synapse re-construction is made in a double mutant background in which the whole animal circuitry might be severely affected. It might well be that the restoration of behavioral plasticity represents something totally irrelevant to wild-type nervous system functioning. A cell-specific innexin knockout is needed to fully support the relevance of the AFD-AIB connection.

      We agree that reconstruction of an electrical synapse in an innexin double-mutant background carries the limitation that global circuit function may be broadly affected. To address this concern, we performed an additional rescue experiment in a less perturbed genetic background.

      As described above, we show that AFD-specific expression of inx-10 is sufficient to restore tactiledependent locomotion modulation in inx-10 single mutants (Fig. 6D). This cell-specific rescue does not rely on a double-mutant background and converges on the same outcome as the Cx36-based electrical synapse reconstruction. Together, these complementary approaches support the conclusion that restoring AFD-AIB coupling is sufficient to enable tactile-dependent locomotion modulation, rather than reflecting nonspecific recovery from global circuit disruption.

      (7) How was developmental age controlled? It seems that all genotypes were grown for a fixed duration (72h). Some mutants, like gcy-8, might grow slower. It would be useful to at least provide control data in wildtype animals showing that behavioral performance is similar even in slightly younger animals (covering the developmental age of the youngest mutant).

      Developmental age was controlled by strict age synchronization and staging criteria rather than growth duration alone. Worms were synchronized by allowing 40-50 young adults to lay eggs on OP50-seeded NGM plates for two hours, after which adults were removed. Developmental stage was further assessed by gonadal morphology, and only young adult animals with 5-10 eggs arranged in a single row were selected for behavioral assays. Using these criteria, all strains, including mutants, consistently reached the assayed stage approximately three days after egg laying, comparable to wild type animals.

      To further address the possibility that subtle developmental differences could influence behavior, we measured locomotion speed on agar plates and body length for genotypes that show defects in contextdependent modulation. gcy-18 mutants and AFD-ablated worms exhibited normal locomotion rates and body size, indicating that their behavioral phenotypes are unlikely to arise from developmental delay or impaired general motor ability. These control data are now included in the revised manuscript (Figure 4– Supplement 2B–C).

      (8) Plasmid construction description is entirely lacking.

      Description of plasmid construction has been added to the revised Methods.

      Minor points:

      (1) 'Context-dependent locomotion' should be replaced by 'tactile context-dependent locomotion' or something similar throughout the manuscript when referring to the impact of the pillar environment.

      Presently, this phrasing shortcut makes the communication too vague throughout, and even confusing when presenting the result of supplementary Figure 2 (where both thermal and tactile contexts are manipulated).

      We appreciate this suggestion and have revised the terminology for clarity where appropriate. Prior to introducing the mechanosensory origin of the modulation (that is, before presenting the mec-10 data), we retain the broader term “context-dependent modulation” to avoid presupposing a tactile mechanism before it is experimentally established.

      (2) L97: Suggested change along the same lines: "prior experience" -> "prior tactile experience".

      We have made this change as suggested.

      (3) Figure 1A: Would the author consider swapping the order of conditions displayed in this diagram? It would make more sense to have the same left-to-right order in the whole figure with the binary chamber on the left, particularly since the author describes the results considering the binary chamber as the 'reference point'.

      The order of chambers in Figure 1A has been revised as suggested, with the binary chamber now shown on the left.

      (4) Figure 1C: 'idel' typo in the axis label.

      The y-axis label has been updated from “idel” to “idle.”

      (5) Without AFD-specific manipulations, the data with tax-4 and tax-2 mutants provide limited information regarding TAX-4 and TAX-2 role in AFD. It should be explicitly mentioned in the Results section that they might work in other neurons.]

      The revised manuscript now explicitly states that the tax-2(p694) allele affects multiple neurons, including BAG, ASE, ADE, and AFD (Lines 421–422).

      (6) L220-222: The strict meaning of this sentence implies that one attributes a role to AFD in controlling constitutive locomotion, but none of the presented data directly shows this (both kcc-3 and tax-4 mutant phenotypes could arise from additional neurons, regardless of any perturbation in AFD). This should be corrected.

      To avoid implying that AFD directly controls constitutive locomotion, we have removed the sentence in question, “Together, these findings suggest that the role of AFD neurons in modulating context-dependent locomotion is distinct from their thermosensory functions and differs from the mechanisms controlling basal locomotion”, from the revised manuscript.

      (7) L328-329: Overstatement. Without AFD-specific manipulation of TAX-2 and TAX-4, the different mutant phenotypes could be due to different cell types, rather than different protein pairs in the channel heteromers. I would recommend addressing this alternative possibility directly in the discussion, rather than focusing only on one (I agree, very cool) possibility.

      We have clarified this point in the revised text. We now explicitly note that the tax-2(p694) mutation affects tax-2 expression in multiple neurons (AFD, BAG, ASE, and ADE) (Lines 421–422).

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Clarification of inx Gene Expression Analysis (Lines 270-271): The authors should specify how the expression of inx genes in individual neurons was identified.

      The revised manuscript now specifies that innexin expression patterns were identified using the CeNGEN single-cell transcriptomic database (Lines 352–354).

      (2) Cx36 Expression in AFD and AIB (Lines 287-288): Further clarification is needed on how Cx36 expression was achieved in AFD and AIB.

      We have clarified that Cx36 was expressed specifically in AFD using the srtx-1b promoter and in AIB using the inx-1 promoter, as stated in the main text (Lines 372–373) and the Fig. 6 legend.

    1. Author Response:

      Public Review:

      We thank you and the reviewers for the thoughtful and constructive comments. The feedback helps us strengthen the manuscript substantially, and we plan to address the key points in the revised version as follows.

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      First, in response to the request for a clearer biological interpretation of the pathway enrichment results, we will expand the Discussion to more directly integrate these findings with the observed life-history divergence between strains.

      Second, we agree with the concern regarding the phylogenetic inference of PxSODC. We will therefore re-infer the phylogeny using a model-based Maximum Likelihood approach implemented in IQ-TREE, and, in the absence of an appropriate outgroup, the revised tree will be presented as unrooted.

      Third, to address the suggestion for a structural explanation of the mutational effects, we will add new structural analyses using AlphaFold modeling and 100 ns molecular dynamics simulations of the wild-type and mutant PxSODC proteins across three physiologically relevant temperatures.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      First, we will restructured the Results and streamlined the presentation to better emphasize the central narrative. Extensive descriptive datasets will be moved to the Supplementary Materials, and the rationale linking different analytical layers will be stated more explicitly.

      Second, we will also revise the manuscript to better frame the ecological relevance and limitations of the experimental design. Specifically, we will clarify that the thermal selection regimes were chosen to reflect ecologically relevant extremes for the source population from subtropical Fuzhou, where summer and winter temperatures can approach the ranges used in the experiment. We will further explain that the cycling temperature treatments were designed to approximate severe but naturally occurring diurnal fluctuations.

      Third, in response to concerns about statistical rigor and reproducibility, we will substantially expanded the statistical methods throughout the manuscript. The revised version will provide a clearer description of the analyses used for each dataset, including sample sizes, comparison structure, and statistical thresholds. We will also clarify the application of multiple-testing correction for both transcriptomic and metabolomic analyses, specified the criteria used in network analyses, and more clearly distinguished the statistical approaches used for pairwise versus multi-group comparisons.

    1. Author Response:

      We thank the reviewers and editors for their thoughtful and constructive assessment. We are encouraged that the reviewers viewed the combination of retinal bouton imaging, collicular neuron imaging, and depth-resolved electrophysiology, together with the comparison to retinal geometric models, as a strength of the study. As the reviewers note, our findings are consistent with previous in vitro studies showing topographic organization of tuning in the retina and with recent work demonstrating the precision of retinotopic mapping from retina to superior colliculus (SC). In revision, we will refine our definition of tuning, sharpen our claims about the spatial organization across SC and its correspondence to retinal topography, and make clearer our aim of reconciling seemingly opposing findings in the literature. In addition, we will provide a detailed response to all other points raised by the reviewers.

      A central point raised in the reviews concerns our definition of direction- and orientation-selective cells. We agree that relying only on statistical significance is not sufficient for our purposes, because the resulting classification can depend on recording duration and statistical power. In the revised manuscript, we will therefore introduce thresholding criteria for direction and orientation selectivity indices (DSI and OSI) in addition to significance-based testing. We will also make clearer that our primary question is which stimulus directions and orientations are represented at a given receptive field location, rather than the distribution of preferences among neurons classified as purely direction- or orientation-selective.

      We will also revise the text to define more precisely what our data do and do not establish about the large-scale organization across SC. Our intended conclusion is not that we identify a novel global organization, which would require sampling a larger portion of visual space, but rather that the regions we sampled are not well explained by previously proposed global maps in which each visual field location is dominated by a single tuning preference and the same organization is conserved across individuals. Instead, our data are more consistent with a retinal organization of biases toward specific directions and orientations that vary systematically across visual space.

      We will further clarify how we quantified the correspondence between our data and the previously established retinal model of direction and orientation tuning. In the current manuscript, we report the errors between model predictions and measured tuning preferences at the corresponding visual field locations. We then assess model performance by comparing the distribution of these errors with the errors obtained from two surrogate datasets: one in which the correspondence between visual field location and tuning preference is destroyed, and one in which the prior distribution of tuning preferences is assumed to be uniform. In the revised manuscript, we will make the interpretation of this comparison more explicit, so that the reported errors are clearly presented as the relevant effect-size measure alongside significance.

      Finally, we appreciate the reviewers’ concern that the manuscript may currently emphasize disagreement with previous studies too strongly. We will revise the Discussion to better acknowledge where our data support some degree of local bias or weak clustering, while clarifying that we do not find evidence for a robust, stereotyped global map that is consistent across animals. Our goal is to sharpen the manuscript so that it better reconciles seemingly divergent findings in the literature rather than setting them in opposition.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      It is important to make a few key points about our work. First, our paper is largely a computational biophysics paper, augmented by experimental results. Generally speaking, computational biophysics work intends to achieve one of two things (or both). One is to provide more molecular level insight into various behaviors of biomolecular systems that have not been (or cannot be) provided by qualitative experimental results alone. The second general goal of computational biophysics it to formulate new hypotheses to be tested subsequently by experiment. In our paper, we have achieved both of these goals and then confirmed the key computational results by experiment.

      eLife Assessment

      This study investigates how the HIV inhibitor lenacapavir influences capsid mechanics and interactions with the nuclear pore complex. It provides important insights into how drug-induced hyperstabilization of the viral shell can compromise its structural integrity during nuclear entry. While the modeling is technically sophisticated and the results are promising, some mechanistic interpretations rely on assumptions embedded in the simulations, leaving parts of the evidence incomplete.

      Given our response below, regarding the rigor and “completeness” of our work, we do not feel that an editorial judgement of “leaving parts of the evidence incomplete” is justified.

      We also note that another recent experimental paper has validated essentially every prediction made in our eLife paper: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.64898/2026.01.05.697065v1

      We thus disagree that the evidence we have presented in our paper is incomplete.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      The paper from Hudait and Voth details a number of coarse-grained simulations as well as some experiments focused on the stability of HIV capsids in the presence of the drug lenacapavir. The authors find that LEN hyperstabilizes the capsid, making it fragile and prone to breaking inside the nuclear pore complex.

      I found the paper interesting. I have a few suggestions for clarification and/or improvement. 

      (1) How directly comparable are the NPC-capsid and capsid-only simulations? A major result rests on the conclusion that the kinetics of rupture are faster inside the NPC, but are the numbers of LENs bound identical? Is the time really comparable, given that the simulations have different starting points? I'm not really doubting the result, but I think it could be made more rigorous/quantitative.

      We note (also in the manuscript) that it is difficult to compare the timescales obtained from coarse-grained MD simulations and experiments (“real time”) given that, by design, the CG simulations are accelerated to greatly enhance sampling. However, we can qualitatively compare the timescales of different CG simulations (without directly comparing the corresponding experimental timescales).

      We agree with the reviewer that the starting point of NPC-capsid and capsid-only simulations is different, as is the biological environment in which the rupture occurs. When analyzing the NPC-only and capsid-only simulations, what was striking to us was that at the NPC the capsid-LEN complex ruptures in a multicomponent environment, where several FG-NUPs compete to displace the LENs. It is well established in experiments that LEN has a detrimental effect on capsid integrity.

      In Figure 2, we plot the number of LEN molecules as a function of CG simulation time. The initial capsid-LEN complex was equilibrated without NPC and then placed at the cytoplasmic end of the NPC for docking. The number of LEN molecules for the capsid-only simulations and the NPC-docked simulations is nearly identical, and an insignificant number of LEN molecules unbind at the NPC. Hence, we added the following clarification:

      Page 10, paragraph 11

      “Note that the number of LEN molecules bound to the capsid for the free capsid and NPCdocked capsids are nearly identical. Hence, the disparity in timescale of lattice rupture is not only because of the effect of LEN on capsid lattice properties.”

      Is the time really comparable, given that the simulations have different starting points?

      Yes, the CG timescales of both the NPC and freely diffusing capsid unbiased simulations are comparable, since they were done using identical simulation settings.

      (2) Related to the above, it is stated on page 12 that, based on the estimated free-energy barrier, pentamer dissociation should occur in ~10 us of CG time. But certainly, the simulations cover at least this length of time?

      Our implicit solvent CG MD simulations are designed to access timescales far beyond the capabilities of the fully atomistic simulations. We reiterate here that it is difficult to directly compare the timescales obtained from CG MD simulations and experiments.

      As described in the text, there are 12 pentamers in the capsid (7 in the wide end and 5 in the narrow end). For the narrow end to rupture, all 5 pentamers should progressively dissociate. In our unbiased simulations (Fig. S5), in 25 us of CG time, we observe (partial) dissociation of one or two pentamers. Hence, our unbiased CG simulation timescales were not long enough to observe rupturing of the narrow end.

      (3) At first, I was surprised that even in a CG simulation, LEN would spontaneously bind to the correct site. But if I read the SI correctly, LEN was parameterized specifically to bind to hexamers and not pentamers. This is fine, but I think it's worth describing in the main text.

      We modified (see below) the main text to include the details.

      Page 4, paragraph 1

      “We model LEN and CA interactions such that LEN molecules can only bind to CA hexamers, and all interactions to CA pentamers are turned off, as in experiments, CA selectively associates with hexamers (25, 36).”

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Here, Hudait et al. use CG modeling to investigate the mechanism by which Lenacapavir (LEN) treats HIV capsids that dock to the nuclear pore complex (NPC). However, the manuscript fails to present meaningful findings that were previously unreported in the literature and is thus of low impact. Many claims made in the manuscript are not substantiated by the presented data. Key mechanistic details that the work purports to reveal are artifacts of the parameterization choices or simulation/analysis design, with the simulations said to reveal details that they were specifically biased to reproduce. This makes the manuscript highly problematic, as its contributions to the literature would represent misconceptions based on oversights in modeling and thus mislead future readers. 

      We strongly disagree with these statements, and they do not reflect the facts. We provide a rebuttal to these statements in the “Author Response” statements below.

      (1) Considering the literature, it is unclear that the manuscript presents new scientific discoveries. The following are results from this paper that have been previously reported:

      (a) LEN-bound capsid can dock to the nuclear pore (Figure 2; see e.g. 10.1016/j.cell.2024.12.008 or 10.1128/mbio.03613-24). 

      (b) NUP98 interacts with the docked capsid (Figure 2; see e.g. 10.1016/j.virol.2013.02.008 or 10.1038/s41586-023-06969-7 or 10.1016/j.cell.2024.12.008). 

      (c) LEN and NUP98 compete for a binding interface (Figure 2; see e.g. 10.1126/science.abb4808 or 10.1371/journal.ppat.1004459). 

      (d) LEN creates capsid defects (Figure 3 and 5, see e.g. 10.1073/pnas.2420497122). 

      (e) RNP can emerge from a damaged capsid (Figure 3 and 5; see e.g. 10.1073/pnas.2117781119 or 10.7554/eLife.64776). 

      (f) LEN hyperstabilizes/reduces the elasticity of the capsid lattice (Figure 6; see e.g. 10.1371/journal.ppat.1012537). 

      The goal of our simulations (in combination with experiments from the Pathak group) is to provide molecular-level insight into the sequence of events of NPC docking of capsid and the effect of LEN binding leading to sequential dissociation of pentamers and leading to rupturing of the narrow end of the cone-shaped capsid. We also compare the events leading to capsid rupture at the NPC with the same for a freely diffusing capsid, akin to that in cytoplasm. The reviewer should carefully read the abstract of our paper. In fact, the above are all papers that present qualitative experimental results that help validate our model, but they do not provide details on the molecule-scale events. For example, the paper (10.1073/pnas.2420497122 written by our coauthors in the Pathak group) is extensively used to compare the behavior of LEN-bound capsid in the cytoplasm.

      (2) The mechanistic findings related to how these processes occur are problematic, either based on circular reasoning or unsubstantiated, based on the presented data. In some cases, features of parameterization and simulation/analysis design are erroneously interpreted as predictions by the CG models. 

      We strongly disagree with this assessment. Our CG NPC model is largely a “bottomup” model derived from molecular scale interactions sampled in atomistic simulations (see our previous paper in PNAS https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2313737121). The reviewer appears to be ignorant of the “bottom-up” approach based on rigorous statistical mechanics to derive moleculescale model (please refer to a detailed review on bottom-up coarse-graining: J. Chem. Theory. Comput., 2022, 18. 5759-5791).

      Using the “bottom-up” CG model of the NPC, we predicted several molecular-level details of capsid import and docking to the NPC. Our key predictions were that there is an intrinsic capsid lattice elasticity and also the pleomorphic nature of the NPC channel is key for successful capsid docking https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2313737121). Our computational predictions have benn, for example, validated in a recently published paper by an experimental group: Hou, Z., Shen, Y., Fronik, S. et al. HIV-1 nuclear import is selective and depends on both capsid elasticity and nuclear pore adaptability. Nat Microbiol 10, 1868–1885 (2025). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41564025-02054-z). Our work is an excellent example of how systematically derived “bottom-up” CG models can accurately predict molecular details of complex biological processes.

      We have now added the following statement:

      Page 3, Paragraph 1

      “Importantly, the computational predictions of capsid docking to the NPC central channel have been recently validated in a HIV-1 core import at the NPC using cryo-ET (33), demonstrating how systematically derived “bottom-up” CG models can accurately predict molecular details of complex biomolecular processes.”

      (a) Claim: LEN-bound capsids remain associated with the NPC after rupture. CG simulations did not reach the timescale needed to demonstrate continued association or failure to translocate, leaving the claim unsubstantiated.

      The reviewer fails to recognize that the statement is based on the experimental results of LEN-bound capsid that remains bound to the NPC after rupture and fails to translocate to the nuclear side (from the Pathak group in the section “Ruptured LEN-viral complexes remain bound to the NPC”). The Reviewers’ comment is incorrect. 

      (b) Claim: LEN contributes to loss of capsid elasticity. The authors do not measure elasticity here, only force constants of fluctuations between capsomers in freely diffusing capsids. Elasticity is defined as the ability of a material to undergo reversible deformation when subjected to stress. Other computational works that actually measure elasticity (e.g., 0.1371/journal.ppat.1012537) could represent a point of comparison but are not cited. The changes in force constants in the presence of LEN are shown in Figure 6C, but the text of the scale bar legend and units of k are not legible, so one cannot discern the magnitude or significance of the change.

      The concept of elasticity can extend down to the mesoscopic scale. Many examples can be found in the large number of elastic network models (ENMs) of proteins published by many authors. The reviewer also fails to comprehend the meaning of the effective spring constants in the HeteroENM model and how they relate to the response of the capsid to stress (e.g., in the NPC). Note, in the NPC central channel, the capsid encounters several nucleoporins (including disordered FG Nucleoporins that not have specific interactions to rest of the proteins), and also a confined environment. This environment can exert inward stress to the capsid, which is also reflected in stress on the capsid lattice. Furthermore, the cited computational AFM studies are very far from a realistic in vivo or even in vitro set of conditions. In contrast, our study presents a realistic environment which the capsid will encounter in NPC, and then these predictions are validated by experimental results.

      (c) Claim: Capsid defects are formed along striated patterns of capsid disorder. Data is not presented that correlates defects/cracks with striations. 

      We presented the data of formation of striated patterns of lattice stress in the capsid that runs from capsid narrow end to the wide end in coarse-grained model (https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2313737121), and atomistic model (https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2117781119). Both of our papers are extensively cited in the current manuscript. Also, when the capsid is ruptured, one cannot visualize the striated patterns.

      (d) Claim: Typically 1-2 LEN, but rarely 3 bind per capsid hexamer. The authors state: "The magnitude of the attractive interactions was adjusted to capture the substoichiometric binding of LEN to CA hexamers (Faysal et al., 2024). ... We simulated LEN binding to the capsid cone (in the absence of NPC), which resulted in a substoichiometric binding (~1.5 LEN per CA hexamer), consistent with experimental data (Singh et al., 2024)." This means LEN was specifically parameterized to reproduce the 1-2 binding ratio per hexamer apparent from experiments, so this was a parameterization choice, not a prediction by CG simulations as the authors erroneously claim: "This indicates that the probability of binding a third LEN molecule to a CA hexamer is impeded, likely due to steric effects that prevent the approach of an incoming molecule to a CA hexamer where 2 LEN molecules are already associated. ... Approximately 20% of CA hexamers remain unoccupied despite the availability of a large excess of unbound LEN molecules. This suggests a heterogeneity in the molecular environment of the capsid lattice for LEN binding." These statements represent gross over-interpretation of a bias deliberately introduced during parameterization, and the "finding" represents circular reasoning. Also, if "steric effects" play any role, the authors could analyze the model to characterize and report them rather than simply speculate.

      Reviewer comment: “This means LEN was specifically parameterized to reproduce the 1-2 binding ratio per hexamer apparent from experiments, so this was a parameterization choice, not a prediction by CG simulations as the authors erroneously claim.” – This comment by reviewer is deeply flawed and we strongly disagree. In our CG model there is no restriction on the number of LEN molecules that can bind to a CA hexamer. We again restate that, the experimental results on LEN binding to CA hexamers and inability of LEN to bind to pentamers were used as no allatom (AA) forcefield yet exists.

      The steric effect of the lack of third LEN binding to a hexamer is a likely hypothesis (which one is allowed to make). More importantly, an investigation of the steric effect of LEN binding to the CA hexamer is not the main goal of the manuscript.

      (e) Claim: Competition between NUP98 and LEN regulates capsid docking. The authors state: "A fraction of LEN molecules bound at the narrow end dissociate to allow NUP98 binding to the capsid ... Therefore, LEN can inhibit the efficient binding of the viral cores to the NPC, resulting in an increased number of cores in the cytoplasm." Capsid docking occurs regardless of the presence of LEN, and appears to occur at the same rate as the LEN-free capsid presented in the authors' previous work (Hudait &Voth, 2024). The presented data simply show that there is a fluctuation of bound LEN, with about 10 fewer (<5%) bound at the end of the simulation than at the beginning, and the curve (Figure 2A) does not clearly correlate with increased NUP98 contact. In that case, no data is shown that connects LEN binding with the regulation of the docking process. Further, the two quoted statements contradict each other. The presented data appear to show that NUP outcompetes LEN binding, rather than LEN inhibiting NUP binding. The "Therefore" statement is an attempt to reconcile with experimental studies, but is not substantiated by the presented data.

      We disagree with this spurious statement, and we see no real contradiction. We have now added a minor clarification that LEN can inhibit efficient capsid binding at significantly high concentration.

      Page 6, Paragraph 1

      “Therefore, at significantly high concentration LEN can inhibit the efficient binding of the viral cores to the NPC, resulting in an increased number of cores in the cytoplasm.”

      (f) Claim: LEN binding leads to spontaneous dissociation of pentamers. The CG simulation trajectories show pentamer dissociation. However, it is quite difficult to believe that a pentamer in the wide end of the capsid would dissociate and diffuse 100 nm away before a hexamer in the narrow end (previously between two pentamers and now only partially coordinated, also in a highly curved environment, and further under the force of the extruding RNA) would dissociate, as in Figure 2B. A more plausible explanation could be force balance between pent-hex versus hex-hex contacts, an aspect of CG parameterization. No further modeling is presented to explain the release of pentamers, and changes in pent-hex stiffness are not apparent in the force constant fluctuation analysis in Figure 6C.

      This is both a misrepresentation of the simulations and a failure to understand them (as well as the supporting experiments) on the part of the reviewer. In the presence of LEN, the hexameric lattice is hyperstabilized. In contrast, the pentamers are not. As a consequence, the pentamers are dissociated. The pentamers at the narrow end are dissociated first, due to high curvature. The reviewer, from a point of being uninformed, simply speculates on what they think should happen. Moreover, as emphasized earlier and which the reviewer fails to comprehend is that ours is a “bottom-up CG model” so it predicts, not builds in, these effects.

      (g) Claim: WTMetaD simulations predict capsid rupture. The authors state: "In WTMetaD simulations, we used the mean coordination number (Figure S6) between CA proteins in pentamers and in hexamers as the reaction coordinate." This means that the coordination number, the number of pent-hex contacts, is the bias used to accelerate simulation sampling. Yet the authors then interpret a change in coordination number leading to capsid rupture as a discovery, representing a fundamental misuse of the WTMetaD method. Changes in coordination number cannot be claimed as an emergent property when they are in fact the applied bias, when the simulation forced them to sample such states. The bias must be orthogonal to the feature of interest for that feature to be discoverable. While the reported free energies are orthogonal to the reaction coordinate, the structural and stepwise-mechanism "findings" here represent circular reasoning.

      Unfortunately, the reviewer appears to be quite uninformed on the WTMetaD method and what it does. The chosen collective variable (CV) in our case is the coordination variable and the MetaD samples along that variable (the conditional free energy) as it is designed to do. The reviewer may wish to educate themself by reading Dama et al (https://doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevLett.112.240602). We also note that “emergent properties” are not along some other, uncoupled coordinate.

      (3) Another major concern with this work is the excessive self-citation, and the conspicuous lack of engagement with similar computational modeling studies that investigate the HIV capsid and its interactions with LEN, capsid mechanical properties relevant to nuclear entry, and other capsidNPC simulations (e.g., 10.1016/j.cell.2024.12.008 and 10.1371/journal.ppat.1012537). Other such studies available in the literature include examination of varying aspects of the system at both CG and all-atom levels of resolution, which could be highly complementary to the present work and, in many cases, lend support to the authors' claims rather than detract from them. The choice to omit relevant literature implies either a lack of perspective or a lack of collegiality, which the presentation of the work suffers from. Overall, it is essential to discuss findings in the context of competing studies to give readers an accurate view of the state of the field and how the present work fits into it. It is appropriate in a CG modeling study to discuss the potential weaknesses of the methodology, points of disagreement with alternative modeling studies, and any lack of correlation with a broader range of experimental work. Qualitative agreement with select experiments does not constitute model validation. 

      We disagree with this statement and point out where we have cited other work, including the ones mentioned above. However, our CG model is a largely bottom-up CG model which differs from other more ad hoc CG approaches (and some well-known CG models). We do not wish to emphasize the obvious flaws in those other CG approaches and models, since that is not the focus of our manuscript.

      (4) Other critiques, questions, concerns:

      (a) The first Results sub-heading presents "results", complete with several supplementary figures and a movie that are from a previous publication about the development of the HIV capsid-NPC model in the absence of LEN (Hudait &Voth, 2024). This information should be included as part of the introduction or an abbreviated main-text methods section rather than being included within Results as if it represents a newly reported advancement, as this could be misleading. 

      The movie in question (capsid docking to NPC without LEN) is essential for comparison of LEN-binding dynamics. Different from our previous paper, we simulated significantly longer timescales of capsid docking and performed several additional analyses that is relevant to this paper. Moreover, the first section of the result is titled “Coarse-grained modeling and simulation”, hence we only present a summary of the CG models and key validation steps in this section.

      (b) The authors say the unbiased simulations of capsid-NPC docking were run as two independent replicates, but results from only one trajectory are ever shown plotted over time. It is not mentioned if the time series data are averaged or smoothed, so what is the shadow in these plots (e.g., Figures 1,2, and Supplementary Figure 5)?

      These simulations are the average from two replicas. “For all the plots, the solid lines are the mean values calculated from the time series of two independent replicas, and the shaded region is the standard deviation at each timestep.” This was mentioned in the original figure caption.

      (c) Why do the insets showing LEN binding in Figure 2A look so different from the models they are apparently zoomed in on? Both instances really look like they are taken from different simulation frames, rather than being a zoomed-in view.

      It is difficult to discern a high curvature region of the capsid due to object overlap of different regions of the capsid. This is likely a case of “perspective distortion” in image processing.

      (d) What are the sudden jerks apparent in the SI movies? Perhaps this is related to the rate at which trajectory frames are saved, but occasionally, during the relatively smooth motion of the capsidNPC complex, something dramatic happens all of a sudden in a frame. For example, significant and apparently instantaneous reorientation of the cone far beyond what preceding motions suggest is possible (SI movie 2, at timestamp 0.22), RNP extrusion suddenly in a single frame (SI movie 2, at timestamp 0.27), and simultaneous opening of all pentamers all at once starting in a single frame (SI movie 2, at timestamp 0.33). This almost makes the movie look generated from separate trajectories or discontinuous portions of the same trajectory. If movies have been edited for visual clarity (e.g., to skip over time when "nothing" is happening and focus on the exciting aspects), then the authors should state so in the captions. 

      This is due to the rate at which trajectory frames are saved for movie generation for faster processing of the movies. We added the following in movie caption: 

      “The movie frames correspond to snapshots every 250000 𝜏<sub>CG</sub>.” 

      (e) Figure 3c presents a time series of the degree of defects at pent-hex and hex-hex interfaces, but I do not understand the normalization. The authors state, "we represented the defects as the number of under-coordinated CA monomers of the hexamers at the pentamer-hexamer-pentamer and hexamer-hexamer interface as N_Pen-Hex and N_Hex-Hex ... Note that in N_Pen-Hex and N_Hex-Hex are calculated by normalizing by the total number of CA pentamer (12) and hexamer rings (209) respectively." Shouldn't the number of uncoordinated monomers be normalized by the number of that type of monomer, rather than the number of capsomers/rings? E.g., 12*5 and 209*6, rather than 12 and 209?

      We prefer to continue with the current normalization, since typically in the HIV-1 literature capsids are represented as a collection of hexamers and pentamers (rather than total number of CA monomers).

      (f) The authors state that "Although high computational cost precluded us from continuing these CG MD simulations, we expect these defects at the hexamer-hexamer interface to propagate the high curvature ends of the capsid." The defects being reported are apparently propagating from (not towards) the high curvature ends of the capsid. 

      We corrected the statement as follows:

      “Although high computational cost precluded us from continuing these CG MD simulations, we expect these defects at the hexamer-hexamer interface to propagate from the high curvature to low curvature end of the capsid.”

      (g) The first half of the paper uses the color orange in figures to indicate LEN, but the second half uses orange to indicate defects, and this could be confusing for some readers. Both LEN and "defects" are simply a cluster of spheres, so highlighted defects appear to represent LEN without careful reading of captions.

      We only show LEN in Figure 1, and in rest of the figures the bound LEN molecules are not shown for clarity. The defects are shown in a darker shade of orange (amber). 

      (h) SI Figure S3 captions says "The CA monomers to which at least one LEN molecule is bound are shown in orange spheres. The CA monomers to which no LEN molecule is bound are shown in white spheres. " While in contradiction, the main-text Fig 2 says "The CA monomers to which at least one LEN molecule is bound are shown in white spheres. The CA monomers to which no LEN molecule is bound are shown in orange spheres. " One of these must be a typo.

      We have corrected the erroneous caption in Fig. S3. The color scheme in Fig. 2 and Fig. S3 are now consistent.

      (i) The authors state that: "CG MD simulations and live-cell imaging demonstrate that LEN-treated capsids dock at the NPC and rupture at the narrow end when bound to the central channel and then remain associated to the NPC after rupture." However, the live cell imaging data do not show where rupture occurs, such that this statement is at least partially false. It is also unclear that CG simulations show that cores remain bound following rupture, given that simulations were not extended to the timescale needed to observe this, again rendering the statement partially false.

      We modified the statement as follows:

      “CG MD simulations complemented by the outcome of live-cell imaging demonstrate that LENtreated capsids dock at the NPC and rupture at the narrow end when bound to the central channel and then remain associated with the NPC after rupture.”

      (j) The authors state: "We previously demonstrated that the RNP complex inside the capsid contributes to internal mechanical strain on the lattice driven by CACTD-RNP interactions and condensation state of RNP complex (Hudait &Voth, 2024). " In that case, why do the present CG models detect no difference in results for condensed versus uncondensed RNP?

      In our previous paper, the difference from condensation state of RNP complex appear only in the pill-shaped capsid, and not in the cone-shaped capsid. In this manuscript, we only investigated the cone-shaped capsid.

      (k) The authors state: "The distribution demonstrates that the binding of LEN to the distorted lattice sites is energetically favorable. Since LEN localizes at the hydrophobic pocket between two adjoining CA monomers, it is sterically favorable to accommodate the incoming molecule at a distorted lattice site. This can be attributed to the higher available void volume at the distorted lattice relative to an ordered lattice, the latter being tightly packed. This also allows the drug molecule to avoid the multitude of unfavorable CA-LEN interactions and establish the energetically favorable interactions leading to a successful binding event. " What multitude of unfavorable interactions are the authors referring to? Data is not presented to substantiate the claim of increased void volume between hexamers in the distorted lattice. Capsomer distortion is shown as a schematic in Figure 6A rather than in the context of the actual model.

      “What multitude of unfavorable interactions are the authors referring to?” We have now added the following sentence to clarify

      “Here we denote unfavorable CA-LEN interactions as all interactions other than the electrostatic and van der Waal interactions that lead to CA-LEN binding (17).”

      “In the distorted lattice, there is an increase of void volume is based on standard solid-state physics understanding. We added the word “likely” in the statement. “. This can likely be attributed to the higher available void volume at the distorted lattice relative to an ordered lattice, the latter being tightly packed (41).”

      Moreover, in one of our previous manuscripts, we established that compressive or expansive strain induces more closely packed or expanded lattice (A. Yu et al., Strain and rupture of HIV-1 capsids during uncoating. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 119, e2117781119 (2022)).

      (l) The authors state that "These striated patterns also demonstrate deviations from ideal lattice packing. " What does ideal lattice packing mean in this context, where hexamers are in numerous unique environments in terms of curvature? What is the structural reference point?

      The ideal lattice packing definition is provided in our previous manuscripts: 1. A. Yu et al., Strain and rupture of HIV-1 capsids during uncoating. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 119, e2117781119 (2022), 2. A. Hudait, G. A. Voth, HIV-1 capsid shape, orientation, and entropic elasticity regulate translocation into the nuclear pore complex. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 121, e2313737121 (2024).

      These manuscripts are cited in the previous statement. The ideal lattice packing is defined based on lattice separations in each core (in cryo-ET and atomistic simulations) using a local order parameter, which measures the near-neighbor contacts of a particle. Moreover, the ideal packing reference is calculated from all available capsid shapes (cone, ellipsoid, and tubular), and takes into account different curvatures.

      (m) If pentamer-hexamer interactions are weakened in the presence of LEN, why are differences at these interfaces not apparent in the Figure 6C data that shows stiffening of the interactions between capsomer subunits?

      We have added a statement as follows:

      “Based on our analysis, we hypothesize that LEN binding hyperstabilzes the CA hexamerhexamer interactions relative to CA hexamer-pentamer interaction.”

      (n) The authors state: "Lattice defects arising from the loss of pentamers and cracks along the weak points of the hexameric lattice drive the uncoating of the capsid." The word rupture or failure should be used here rather than uncoating; it is unclear that the authors are studying the true process of uncoating and whether the defects induced by LEN binding relate in any way to uncoating. 

      We have now changed “uncoating” to “rupture” throughout the manuscript.

      (o) The authors state: " LEN-treated broken cores are stabilized by the interaction with the disordered FG-NUP98 mesh at the NPC." But no data is presented to demonstrate that capsid stability is increased by NUP98 interaction. In fact, the presented data could suggest the opposite since capsids in contact with NUP98 in the NPC appeared to rupture faster than freely diffusing capsids.

      We have modified the statement as follows

      “We hypothesize that LEN-treated broken cores are stabilized by the interaction with the disordered FG-NUP98 mesh at the NPC.”

      (p) The authors state: "LEN binding stimulates similar changes in free capsids, but they occur with lower frequency on similar time scales, suggesting that the cores docked at the NPC are under increased stress, resulting in more frequent weakening of the hexamer-pentamer and hexamerhexamer interactions, as well as more nucleation of defects at the hexamer-hexamer Interface. ... Our results suggest that in the presence of the LEN, capsid docking into the NPC central channel will increase stress, resulting in more frequent breaks in the capsid lattice compared to free capsids." The first is a run-on sentence. The results shown support that LEN stimulates changes in free capsids to happen faster, but not more frequently. The frequency with which an event occurs is separate from the speed with which the event occurs.

      We have fixed the run-on sentence.

      The results shown support that LEN stimulates changes in free capsids to happen faster, but not more frequently. The frequency with which an event occurs is separate from the speed with which the event occurs.

      We disagree with the reviewer. The statement was intended to provide a comparison between free capsid and NPC-bound capsid.

      (q) The authors state: "A possible mechanistic pathway of capsid disassembly can be that multiple pentamers are dissociated from the capsid sequentially, and the remaining hexameric lattice remains stabilized by bound LEN molecules for a time, before the structural integrity of the remaining lattice is compromised." This statement is inconsistent with experimental studies that say LEN does not lead to capsid disassembly, and may even prevent disassembly as part of its disruption of proper uncoating (e.g., 10.1073/pnas.2420497122 previously published by the authors).

      We disagree with the interpretation of the reviewer. Our interpretation based on our results is LEN binding accelerates capsid rupture (from pentamer-rich high curvature ends), and the rest of the broken hexameric lattice is hyperstabilized. Ultimately, lattice rupture will lead to release the RNP, and hence the intended goal of the drug is achieved.

      (r) Finally, it remains a concern with the authors' work that the bottom-up solvent-free CG modeling software used in this and supporting works is not open source or even available to other researchers like other commonly used molecular dynamics software packages, raising significant questions about transparency and reproducibility.

      The simulations were performed in LAMMPS, which is open source. This software is already stated in the Methods. Input data is provided upon request.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Figure 1: In part B, it appears the middle panel was screenshotted from a ppt, given the red line underneath Lenacapavir. You can export it to an image instead.

      The figure is fixed.

      (2) Figure 6: In part A, the LEN_d in the graph is illegible. Also, in the panel next to it, it also appears to have been screenshotted from a ppt.

      The figure is fixed.

      (3) Page 6: There's an errant quotation mark at the end of a paragraph.

      Removed the errant quotation

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The code used to perform bottom-up solvent-free CG modeling simulations is not made available.

      This is not true. LAMMPS was used as stated in Methods.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      The presentation and especially main-text illustrative material seem to focus disproportionately on MacAB-TolC-YbjP complex, and the AcrABZ-TolC-YbjP is relegated to supplementary data which is somewhat confusing. There is no high-resolution side view of the AcrABZ-TolC-YbjP side-by-side to MacAB-TolC-YbjP which may be helpful to spot parallels and differences in the organisation of the two systems.

      This was previously presented in Supplementary Figure S2. However, because the models were shown at a small scale, we have now included the comparison in a main manuscript (Figure 4). This figure presents AcrABZ-TolC-YbjP and MacAB-TolC-YbjP side-by-side, a structural alignment of TolC-YbjP in the two pumps, and close-up views of the interaction interface.

      Supplementary Figure 2 may also be better presented in the main text, as it shows specific displacements of residues upon binding of the YbjP relative to the apo-complexes, although this can be left at the authors' discretion.

      We added more text to describe the displacements of residues upon YbjP binding: ‘Nonetheless, the side chains of a few residues in TolC, which mainly correspond to positively charged amino acids (R18, R24, K214, R227, R234), reorient to interact with the YbjP lipoprotein partner (Figure 2B).’

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The work is of high quality and requires minimal modifications, which are mentioned as suggestions above and are mostly connected to the illustrative material.

      One additional suggestion, which is connected to the earlier BioRxiv preprint, the data seen in Fig 6 of the preprint seems to have been edited out from the current version, and perhaps can be included in a revised version, as it seems to support the "rapid adaptation under stress" role for YbjP, which currently is only speculatively mentioned in p.11, line 365 of the manuscript.

      We acknowledge that the BioRxiv preprint Figure 6 can support the rapid adaptation under stress role for YbjP. However, upon sequencing the ΔybjP strain from the Keio collection used in the preprint, we identified a large deletion in the yecT-flhD region. We therefore generated a new ΔybjP strain without the yecT-flhD deletion and repeated the experiment. However, the results with the corrected strain did not support the previous conclusion, and these data were consequently removed in the current manuscript.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      In Figure 3C, the experiment performed with AcrA is clear and the extra band appears at the proper size. On the right panel, it is clear that the crosslink doesn't work when pBPA is placed on residues too far from TolC. Only when introduced on N113 or T110 does a band appear.

      This is in accordance with an interaction in vivo. Nevertheless, 17 + 54 = 71kDa, which is more than the two bands appearing on the gel. This difference in size migration can occur, but it is not clear when looking at Figure S3. In Figure S3a, the purified proteins are highlighted at approximately the expected size (≈20kDa instead of 17 for YbjP and between 56 and 60kDa in two bands for TolC instead of 54kDa). On the right panel, it seems that the bands are present exactly at the same position, instead of an upper band as expected for the crosslinked YbjP-TolC (at 71kDa). It would be clearer if having the control of the same sample without illumination, revealed by anti-TolC, to see the difference.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out this discrepancy. We identified an error in the molecular weight ladder, as one band was missing. This has now been corrected: YbjP migrates just below 17 kDa, consistent with Figure 3C. In addition, we previously reported a size of 54 kDa for TolC, whereas matured TolC, after signal peptide cleavage, is actually 52 kDa.

      We believe that the differences in the apparent molecular weight observed in Figures 3A, 3C and S3 (now S2) mainly result from tagging and post-translation modifications.

      In Figure 3A, we used the soluble construct His-YbjP<sub>28-1711</sub> (theoretical M<sub>w</sub> ~18 kDa), as also done for the controls in Figures 3C and S3 (now S2). However, for the crosslinking samples, we used full-length His-tagged YbjP, which carries a post-translational lipid modification (theoretical M<sub>w</sub> ~19 kDa, considering the protein lipidation). The presence of the lipid chains alters the migration as this species migrates at ~15 kDa (Fig 3A). Increased hydrophobicity, due here to YbjP lipidation, could accelerate the migration (Emmanuel et al. 2025 FEBS Open Bio).

      In Figure 3A, we used the TolC-FLAG whose apparent M<sub>w</sub> is ~52 kDa, as previously reported (Fig S3, Fitzpatrick et al. 2017). In Figure S3 (now S2), we used His-tagged TolC (theoretical M<sub>w</sub> 55 kDa) for the control, which migrates above 56 kDa. In the crosslinking samples, however, we detect tag-free, endogenous TolC, with a theoretical M<sub>w</sub> of ~51 kDa.

      In conclusion, the crosslinked complex composed of lipidated FL YbjP (~15 kDa) and endogenous TolC (~51 kDa) would be expected to migrate at ~66 kDa, which is consistent with what is observed in Figures 3C and S3 (now S2).

      A second point that could be discussed further is the comparison of the structure of the pump in the presence of the peptidoglycan with the images previously obtained by tomography. It is not totally clear to me if YbjP could have been positioned in these maps.

      There is density corresponding to YbjP in the map obtained in the presence of peptidoglycan. To improve clarity, we have specified the location of the peptidoglycan relative to the pumps in the revised Figure 4, and Supplementary Figure S4, together with the position of YbjP. In both figures, the lipoprotein appears distant from the peptidoglycan density.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      In addition, please add explanations in the legend of Figure 3C concerning the structures.

      We added the following description of the structures: ‘As shown underneath, AcrA residues Q136 and Y137, proximal to TolC in the structure of the AcrABZ-TolC pump (PDB 5NG5), were replaced by pBPA. For YbjP, the two residues N113 and T110 proximal to TolC in the MacAB-TolC-YbjP complex (PDB 9QGY) and the three residues N43, N90 and H104 distal to TolC were mutated.’

      It would be clearer if having the control of the same sample without illumination, revealed by anti-TolC, to see the difference.

      As the amount of crosslinked material is low, samples were enriched via His-tag purification of YbjP prior to Western blotting. In the absence of illumination (see sample N113, UV-), no crosslink would be formed, and therefore TolC would not be co-purified.

      In addition, some typo errors have been noted.

      Table S1 minus is missing for the defocus range for AcrABZ-TolC-YbjP.

      Thank you for noting the typo. We have added the minus sign.

      Table S3, please specify what is N in the legend.

      N is the stoichiometry parameter, which is now specified in the table legend.

      Line 237, I suppose it has to refer to Figure S6, not S5.

      Thank you for noting the error. We have verified the text matches the figures here and in the entire manuscript.

      Several errors are present in the legend of Figure 6.

      No letters are indicated for the different panels; line 841 must be C, F and I; the indicated colors for the differentially expressed proteins do not correspond to the volcano plots.

      Thank you for suggesting the improvements for the labels. We have modified the plot accordingly.

      Reference Glavier 2020 has been cited as Glacier on line 72.

      We have modified the writing accordingly and checked the reference.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      This study established a C921Y OGT-ID mouse model, systematically demonstrating in mammals the pathological link between O-GlcNAc metabolic imbalance and neurodevelopmental disorders (cortical malformation, microcephaly) as well as behavioral abnormalities (hyperactivity, impulsivity, learning/memory deficits). However, critical flaws in the current findings require resolution to ensure scientific rigor.

      The most concerning finding appears in Figure S12. While Supplementary Figure S12 demonstrates decreased OGA expression without significant OGT level changes in C921Y mutants via Western blot/qPCR, previous reports (Florence Authier, et al., Dis Model Mech. 2023) described OGT downregulation in Western blot and an increase in qPCR in the same models. The opposite OGT expression outcomes in supposedly identical mouse models directly challenge the model's reliability. This discrepancy raises serious concerns about either the experimental execution or the interpretation of results. The authors must revalidate the data with rigorous controls or provide a molecular biology-based explanation.

      We thank the reviewer for their time and effort in improving the quality of our manuscript.

      We would like to point out that the results presented in the previous Fig. S12 (now Fig. S13) are from different ages of the mice and restricted to the prefrontal cortex, compared to the previous report (Florence Authier, et al., Dis Model Mech. 2023) where we showed OGT and OGA mRNA/protein expression in total brain homogenates. In this previous study, we observed a significant reduction in OGT protein levels while OGT mRNA levels were significantly increased in the brains of 3 months old mutant C921Y compared to WT controls. However, in our current study (Figure S12, now S13), OGA and OGT mRNA/protein expression have been a) restricted to the pre-frontal cortex and b) are from 4 months old male mice. Therefore, a direct comparison of findings from total brain vs. prefrontal cortex would be speculative. In our present work, OGT protein levels are not changed in the pre-frontal cortex, while OGT mRNA levels are increased (similarly to the total brain data), albeit not significantly.

      It is plausible that the different levels of OGT protein expression in total brain (previous study) and prefrontal cortex (current study) potentially reflect regional differences in the regulation of OGT protein levels/stability, since OGT mRNA levels are increased in both cases. This notion is also supported by additional analyses in three other brain regions (hippocampus, striatum and cerebellum) and these data are now included in Figures S13 and S14.

      A few additional comments to the author may be helpful to improve the study.

      Major

      (1) While this study systematically validated multi-dimensional phenotypes (including neuroanatomical abnormalities and behavioral deficits) in OGT C921Y mutant mice, there is a lack of relevant mechanisms and intervention experiments. For example, the absence of targeted intervention studies on key signaling pathways prevents verification of whether proteomics-identified molecular changes directly drive phenotypic manifestations.

      We agree with the reviewer that the suggested experiments would further strengthen our work. However, the extensive nature of the suggested studies would result in considerable delay in sharing this work with the scientific and patient communities. Nevertheless, we appreciate the reviewers’ comment and will continue to work along these lines, and report in a follow up manuscript in the future.

      (2) Although MRI detected nodular dysplasia and heterotopia in the cingulate cortex, the cellular basis remains undefined. Spatiotemporal immunofluorescence analysis using neuronal (NeuN), astrocytic (GFAP), and synaptic (Synaptophysin) markers is recommended to identify affected cell populations (e.g., radial glial migration defects or intermediate progenitor differentiation abnormalities).

      Following the reviewers’ suggestion, we have performed additional analyses to identify the cellular composition of the observed nodular dysplasia using neuronal and glial markers. These new analyses indicate that the nodular collections in the layers II/III were predominantly neurons, for example see cresyl violet (Fig. 6E). Moreover, we have also performed immunofluorescence imaging using NeuN and GFAP (Fig. 6G-H), which reflect that the dystrophic collections are predominantly neurons. To further corroborate these findings, we have also performed multiplex IHC analyses, presented in Fig. S12, which indicate that: i) the nodular cortical malformations were populated by neurons and oligodendrocytes and ii) predominantly affected layers II-V, as reflected by the distribution of neuronal markers Reelin and POU class 3 homeobox 2 (POU3F2), and collectively (Fig. 6 and Fig. S12) reflect neuronal disorganisation due to migration defects rather than differentiation defects. We appreciate the reviewers’ suggestion to perform spatiotemporal analyses of these cellular features; however, tissue from defined stages of development is not available. 

      (3) While proteomics revealed dysregulation in pathways including Wnt/β-catenin and mTOR signaling, two critical issues remain unresolved: a) O-GlcNAc glycoproteomic alterations remain unexamined; b) The causal relationship between pathway changes and O-GlcNAc imbalance lacks validation. It is recommended to use co-immunoprecipitation or glycosylation sequencing to confirm whether the relevant proteins undergo O-GlcNAc modification changes, identify specific modification sites, and verify their interactions with OGT.

      We agree with the referee that these experiments would further strenghten the work. However, we respectfully point out that the inference that altered proteins must themselves be O-GlcNAc modified is not necessarily correct. For instance, O-GlcNAcylation of unknown protein kinase X, E3 ligase/DUB, Y or transcription factor Z could indirectly affect these pathways/proteins. Nevertheless, we have performed further experiments to explore whether Wnt/β-catenin and mTOR signalling are functionally affected, as pointed out by the referee. In the qPCR analyses, we did not observe significant changes in expression of Wnt target genes (Cdkn1a, Ccnd1, Myc, Ramp3, Tfrc), neither in protein levels of key proteins involved in Wnt/β-catenin (non-phosphorylated β-catenin) and mTOR (phosphorylated rpS6) signalling by western blots (data not shown). These results suggest that both pathways are not functionally deregulated in prefrontal cortex of adult OGT<sup>C921Y</sup> mice to a significant extent.

      (4) Given that OGT-ID neuropathology likely originates embryonically, we recommend serial analyses from E14.5 to P7 to examine cellular dynamics during critical corticogenesis phases.

      We appreciate the reviewers’ suggestion to perform spatiotemporal analyses of these cellular dynamics; however, tissue from defined stages of development is not available. As stated above, we want to share our current findings with the scientific and patient communities in a timely manner, and the suggested experiments could form the foundation of a follow up study in the future.

      (5) The interpretation of Figure 8A constitutes overinterpretation. Current data fail to conclusively demonstrate impairment of OGT's protein interaction network and lack direct evidence supporting the proposed mechanisms of HCF1 misprocessing or OGA loss.

      Thank you for the comment. To avoid misleading the readers, we have removed panel A from the previous version of Figure 8 and updated the version of record.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors are trying to understand why certain mutants of O-GlcNAc transferase (OGT) appear to cause developmental disorders in humans. As an important step towards that goal, the authors generated a mouse model with one of these mutations that disrupts OGT activity. They then go on to test these mice for behavioral differences, finding that the mutant mice exhibit some signs of hyperactivity and differences in learning and memory. They then examine alterations to the structure of the brain and skull and again find changes in the mutant mice that have been associated with developmental disorders. Finally, they identify proteins that are up- or down-regulated between the two mice as potential mechanisms to explain the observations.

      Strengths:

      The major strength of this manuscript is the creation of this mouse model, as a key step in beginning to understand how OGT mutants cause developmental disorders. This line will prove important for not only the authors but other investigators as well, enabling the testing of various hypotheses and potentially treatments. The experiments are also rigorously performed, and the conclusions are well supported by the data.

      Weaknesses:

      The only weakness identified is a lack of mechanistic insight. However, this certainly may come in the future through more targeted experimentation using this mouse model.

      We agree with the reviewer that the suggested experiments would further strengthen our work. However, the extensive nature of the suggested studies would result in considerable delay in sharing this work with the scientific and patient communities. Nevertheless, we appreciate the reviewers’ comment and will continue to work along these lines, and report in a follow up manuscript in the future.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Editor's note:

      Should you choose to revise your manuscript, if you have not already done so, please include full statistical reporting including exact p-values wherever possible alongside the summary statistics (test statistic and df) and, where appropriate, 95% confidence intervals. These should be reported for all key questions and not only when the p-value is less than 0.05 in the main manuscript.

      Statistics including exact p-values have been included in the main text for all key questions where appropriate.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) In Figure 1F, the y-axis labels and scale values are partially obscured by graphical elements, compromising accurate interpretation of the data range.

      Panel 1F has been adjusted to make the y-axis label visible.

      (2) Regarding the histological analyses in Figure 6, the current H&E staining and Luxol Fast Blue myelin staining results lack age-matched wild-type control samples processed in parallel, which undermines experimental comparability. To enhance methodological rigor, control group staining results should be displayed adjacent to each experimental group image.

      The original Figure 6 already contained comparison between WT and OGT<sup>C921Y</sup> tissues. The Figure has been updated with additional data from the WT and C921Y mutant groups shown side by side.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) I believe that Figures S1 and S2 were switched during the submission. The legends are correct, so the authors should just be careful with the order when they upload the final versions.

      Figures S1 and S2 have been re-ordered.

      (2) On page 18, the authors state, "Although no significant changes in the expression of OGT were observed in OGTC921Y cortex (Figure S12A, C), there was a significant increase in OGT/OGA protein ratio in OGTC921Y mice (Fig. S12D). As a functional consequence, global O-GlcNAcylation of proteins in the brain was drastically impaired in the OGTC921Y brain compared to WT (Figure S12E, F).

      To me, this statement suggests that the incorrect ratio of OGT to OGA is responsible for the altered O-GlcNAc levels. I think this is missing important information. The authors are, I'm sure, aware that OGT and OGA expression is linked to O-GlcNAc levels. I think it would be better to describe the situation here as the tissue attempting to respond to lower OGT activity by lowering OGA levels. However, the tissue is not fully successful, resulting in lower overall O-GlcNAc levels as seen by RL2. If the difference were only driven by the OGT/OGA ratio, one would expect increased O-GlcNAc levels due to decreased OGA. I think it is important to point out more details here for non-expert readers.

      Thank you for the insightful comment, we have included these aspects in the revised text, please see page 20.

      (3) I am a little surprised that the authors did not explore differences in O-GlcNAc-modified proteins through a more targeted enrichment of these proteins for analysis of potential modification differences, in addition to just changes in protein abundance.

      We agree that these experiments would further strengthen the work. However, it is not known yet whether OGT-CDG is caused by loss of O-GlcNAc modification on specific proteins or due to as yet to decipher mechanisms (e.g. OGT interactome, HCF1 processing, feedback on OGA levels) which we are not able to confirm in the current manuscript. Therefore, as a starting point, we have performed whole proteome analysis to establish candidate hypothesis which could lead to discovering cellular and molecular mechanisms underlying OGT-CDG. Lastly, we appreciate the reviewers’ comment and will continue to work along these lines, and report in a follow up manuscript in the future.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this study, Besson et al. investigate how environmental nutrient signals regulate chromosome biology through the TORC1 signaling pathway in Schizosaccharomyces pombe. Specifically, the authors explore the impact of TORC1 on cohesin function - a protein complex essential for chromosome segregation and transcriptional regulation. Through a combination of genetic screens, biochemical analysis, phospho-proteomics, and transcriptional profiling, they uncover a functional and physical interaction between TORC1 and cohesin. The data suggest that reduced TORC1 activity enhances cohesin binding to chromosomes and improves chromosome segregation, with implications for stress-responsive gene expression, especially in subtelomeric regions.

      Strengths:

      This work presents a compelling link between nutrient sensing and chromosome regulation. The major strength of the study lies in its comprehensive and multi-disciplinary approach. The authors integrate genetic suppression screens, live-cell imaging, chromatin immunoprecipitation, co-immunoprecipitation, and mass spectrometry to uncover the functional connection between TORC1 signaling and cohesin. The use of phospho-mutant alleles of cohesin subunits and their loader provides mechanistic insight into the regulatory role of phosphorylation. The addition of transcriptomic analysis further strengthens the biological relevance of the findings and places them in a broader physiological context. Altogether, the dataset convincingly supports the authors' main conclusions and opens up new avenues of investigation.

      Weaknesses:

      While the study is strong overall, a few limitations are worth noting. The consistency of cohesin phosphorylation changes under different TORC1-inhibiting conditions (e.g., genetic mutants vs. rapamycin treatment) is unclear and could benefit from further clarification. The phosphorylation sites identified on cohesin subunits do not match known AGC kinase consensus motifs, raising the possibility that the modifications are indirect. The study relies heavily on one TORC1 mutant allele (mip1-R401G), and additional alleles could strengthen the generality of the findings. Furthermore, while the results suggest that nutrient availability influences cohesin function, this is not directly tested by comparing growth or cohesin dynamics under defined nutrient conditions.

      We thank the reviewer for his overall positive assessment and constructive criticism. We broadly agree with the few limitations he pointed out, which we will comment on below.

      (1) The consistency of cohesin phosphorylation changes under different TORC1-inhibiting conditions (e.g., genetic mutants vs. rapamycin treatment) is unclear and could benefit from further clarification.

      The basis of our study was to search for suppressor mutants, a situation in which an unviable strain becomes viable. It turns out that the suppressor mutants affect TORC1, necessarily in a partial manner given that TORC1 kinase activity is essential for proliferation. Likewise rapamycin partially inhibits TORC1 and does not prevent proliferation of wild-type S. pombe cells. TORC1 mutants cause a constitutive decrease in activity with possible adaptive effects, whereas rapamycin is applied for a single cell cycle. In addition, it is known that bona fide TORC1 substrates respond differently to rapamycin. Some phosphosites show acute sensitivity, while others are less sensitive or even insensitive (Kang et al., 2013, PMID: 23888043). Therefore, both hypomorphic TORC1 genetic mutants and rapamycin treatment result in partial inhibition of TORC1 kinase activity. While the lists of affected TORC1 substrates may overlap, they are unlikely to be identical. Furthermore, the phosphorylation level of the relevant substrates is not necessarily altered to the same extent. Nevertheless, both conditions suppress the heatsensitive phenotype of the mis4 mutant, although the suppressor effect of rapamycin is weaker. Consequently, some phosphorylation sites involved in mis4-ts suppression may behave similarly in rapamycin and TORC1 mutants (i.e. Psm1-S1022), while others (i.e. Mis4-183) may behave differently.

      It is clear that there are phenotypic differences between the suppression of mis4-ts by rapamycin treatment or by genetic alteration of TORC1. This can be seen also in our ChIP analysis of Rad21 distribution at CARs. The trend is upward, but the pattern is not identical. We have added the following text to summarize the above considerations:

      “It is important to note at this stage that, although rapamycin and TORC1 mutants both decrease TORC1 kinase activity, the two are not equivalent. The mechanisms by which TORC1 kinase activity is reduced are different, and TORC1 mutants suppress the mis4G1487D phenotype more effectively than rapamycin. It is known that bona fide TORC1 substrates respond differently to rapamycin. Some phosphosites show acute sensitivity, while others are less sensitive or even insensitive (Kang et al, 2013). TORC1 mutants cause a constitutive decrease in activity with possible adaptive effects, whereas rapamycin is applied for a single cell cycle. While the lists of affected TORC1 substrates may overlap, they are unlikely to be identical. Furthermore, the phosphorylation level of the relevant substrates is not necessarily altered to the same extent. It is therefore remarkable that negative regulation of TORC1 by rapamycin or a genetic mutation both alleviate mis4G14878D phenotypes and have a fairly similar effect on cohesin dynamics.”

      (2) The phosphorylation sites identified on cohesin subunits do not match known AGC kinase consensus motifs, raising the possibility that the modifications are indirect.

      The genetic and biochemical analyses provided in this study show that the AGC kinases Sck1 and Sck2 influence cohesin phosphorylation and function. Whether Sck1, Sck2 or TORC1 directly phosphorylates cohesin components are the next questions to address. The fact that the phosphorylation of Psm1-S1022 and Mis4-S183 were never abolished in the sck1-2 mutants may suggest they are indirectly involved. This should be taken with caution because we have been using deletion mutants. In this situation, cells adapt and other kinases may substitute, at least partially (Plank et al, 2020, PMID: 32102971). Asking whether cohesin components display consensus sites for AGC kinases is a complementary approach. The consensus site for Sck1 and Sck2 is unknown. If we assume some conservation with budding yeast SCH9, the consensus sequence would be RRxS/T. Psm1S1022 (DQMSP) and Mis4-S183 (QLCSP) do not fit the consensus. However, this kind of information should be taken with care as many SCH9-dependent phosphorylation sites did not fall within the consensus in a study using analogue-sensitive AGC kinases and phosphoproteomics (Plank et al, 2020, PMID: 32102971). Alternatively, Sck1-2 may regulate other kinases. Indeed Psm1-S1022 and Mis4-183 lie within CDK consensus sites and Psm1-S1022 phosphorylation is Pef1-dependent. In summary, yes, the changes may be indirect, that remains to be seen, but in any case they are influenced by TORC1 signalling. The following paragraph was added:

      “The consensus site for Sck1 and Sck2 is unknown. If we assume some conservation with budding yeast SCH9, the consensus sequence would be RRxS/T. Psm1-S1022 (DQMSP) and Mis4-S183 (QLCSP) do not fit the consensus. However, this should be taken with care as many SCH9-dependent phosphorylation sites did not fall within the consensus in a study using analogue-sensitive AGC kinases and phosphoproteomics (Plank et al, 2020). Alternatively, Sck1-2 may regulate other kinases. Indeed Psm1-S1022 and Mis4-183 lie within CDK consensus sites and Psm1-S1022 phosphorylation is Pef1-dependent.”

      (3) The study relies heavily on one TORC1 mutant allele (mip1-R401G), and additional alleles could strengthen the generality of the findings.

      It is true that we focused our attention on mip1-R401G, which is present in all the experiments presented. That said, other alleles were used in one or more figures. Five mip1 alleles and one tor2 allele were identified as mis4-ts suppressors (Fig. 1). We have also shown that another mip1 allele, mip1-Y533A, created by another group (Morozumi et al, 2021), is also a suppressor of mis4-ts and affects the phosphorylation of Mis4-S183 and Psm1-S1022 (Fig. 1, Figure 5—figure supplement 1). To this we can add the effect of mutants that render TORC1 hyperactive (Fig. 1E, Fig. 2H) as well as AGC kinase mutants (Figure 5—figure supplement 3.). And finally, the effect of rapamycin. So yes, mip1-R401G has been used extensively, but we have still broadly covered the TORC1 signalling pathway.

      (4) Furthermore, while the results suggest that nutrient availability influences cohesin function, this is not directly tested by comparing growth or cohesin dynamics under defined nutrient conditions

      We agree that studying the dynamics of cohesin, genome folding and gene expression in relation to nutrient availability is a very exciting topic, and we hope to address these issues in detail in the future.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this study, the authors follow up on a previous suppressor screen of a temperaturesensitive allele of mis4 (mis4-G1487D), the cohesin loading factor in S. pombe, and identify additional suppressor alleles tied to the S. pombe TORC1 complex. Their analysis suggests that these suppressor mutations attenuate TORC1 activity, while enhanced TORC1 activity is deleterious in this context. Suppression of TORC1 activity also ameliorates chromosome segregation and spindle defects observed in the mis4-G1487D strain, although some more subtle effects are not reconstituted. The authors provide evidence that this genetic suppression is also tied to the reconstitution of cohesin loading. Moreover, disrupting TORC1 also enhances Mis4/cohesin association with chromatin (likely reflecting enhanced loading) in WT cells, while rapamycin treatment can enhance the robustness of chromosome transmission. These effects likely arise directly through TORC1 or its downstream effector kinases, as TORC1 co-purifies with Mis4 and Rad21; these factors are also phosphorylated in a TORC1-dependent fashion. Disrupting Sck2, a kinase downstream of TORC1, also suppresses the mis4-G1487D allele while simultaneous disruption of Sck1 and Sck2 enhances cohesin association with chromatin, albeit with differing effects on phosphorylation of Mis4 and Psm1/Scm1. Phosphomutants of Mis4 and Psm1 that mimic observed phosphorylation states identified by mass spectrometry that are TORC1-dependent also suppressed phenotypes observed in the mis4-G1487D background. Last, the authors provide evidence that the mis4-G1487D background and TORC1 mutant backgrounds display an overlap in the dysregulation of genes that respond to environmental conditions, particularly in genes tied to meiosis or other "stress".

      Overall, the authors provide compelling evidence from genetics, biochemistry, and cell biology to support a previously unknown mechanism by which nutrient sensing regulates cohesin loading with implications for the stress response. The technical approaches are generally sound, well-controlled, and comprehensive.

      Specific Points:

      (1) While the authors favor the model that the enhanced cohesin loading upon diminished TORC1 activity helps cells to survive harsh environmental conditions, as starvation of S. pombe also drives commitment to meiosis, it seems as plausible that enhanced cohesin loading is related to preparing the chromosomes to mate.

      (2) Related to Point 1, the lab of Sophie Martin previously published that phosphorylation of Mis4 characterizes a cluster of phosphotargets during starvation/meiotic induction (PMID: 39705284). This work should be cited, and the authors should interrogate how their observations do or do not relate to these prior observations (are these the same phosphosites?).

      We agree this is a possibility and the following paragraph was added in the discussion section:

      “TORC1-based regulation of cohesin may be relevant to preparing cells for meiosis. Since nitrogen deprivation stimulates meiosis initiation, subsequent TORC1 down-regulation may regulate the cohesin complex, preparing the chromosomes for fusion and meiosis. A recent phosphoproteomic study conducted by Sophie Martin's laboratory showed that Mis4-S107 phosphorylation increases during cellular fusion (Bérard et al, 2024). It is unknown whether the phosphorylation of S107 is controlled by TORC1 signalling. As the phosphorylation of Mis4-S183 and Psm1-S1022 was not detected in these experiments, the potential involvement of the TORC1-cohesin axis in the sexual programme remains to be investigated.”

      (3) It would be useful for the authors to combine their experimental data sets to interrogate whether there is a relationship between the regions where gene expression is altered in the mis4-G1487D strain and changes in the loading of cohesin in their ChIP experiments.

      (4) Given that the genes that are affected are predominantly sub-telomeric while most genes are not affected in the mis4-G1487D strain, one possibility that the authors may wish to consider is that the regions that become dysregulated are tied to heterochromatic regions where Swi6/HP1 has been implicated in cohesin loading

      We agree that it would be interesting to see if there are correlations between cohesin positioning, heterochromatin and gene expression. That said, this would need to be done at the whole-genome level and include many other parameters (genome folding, histone modifications, Pol2 occupancy). These issues require substantial investment and may be addressed in a follow-up project.

      (5) It would be helpful to show individual data points from replicates in the bar graphs - it is not always clear what comprises the data sets, and superplots would be of great help.

      We verified that the figure captions clearly indicate the data sets considered, their mean, standard deviation, and statistical analysis method. As for the type of plot, we used the tools at our disposal.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Besson et al. investigate how the nutrient-responsive TORC1 signaling pathway modulates cohesin function in S. pombe. Using a genetic screen, the authors identify TORC1 mutants that suppress the thermosensitive growth defects of a cohesin loader mutant (mis4-G1487D). They show that reducing TORC1 activity-either genetically or pharmacologically-enhances cohesin binding to chromosomal sites (CARs), improves chromosome segregation, and alters the phosphorylation state of cohesin and its loader. They also show, through coimmunoprecipitation, that TORC1 and cohesin physically associate, and that this functional interaction extends to the transcriptional regulation of stress-responsive, subtelomeric genes. Together, the data suggest that environmental cues influence chromosome stability and gene expression via a TORC1-cohesin axis.

      Overall, the study is well-supported by thoughtful genetic epistasis analyses and a combination of genetic, biochemical, cell biological, and transcriptomic approaches. While not all data are equally strong, the cumulative evidence convincingly supports the authors' conclusions.

      Specific Concerns and Suggestions

      (1) Figure 2A - Division rates of wild-type and mip1-R401G cells are missing and should be provided for proper comparison.

      This is now done in revised Figure 2A. We also made a change in the manuscript, replacing “The mip1-R401G mutation efficiently suppressed the proliferation and viability defects (Figure 2A)” by “The mip1-R401G mutation efficiently attenuated the proliferation and viability defects (Figure 2A)”, to acknowledge the fact that the proliferation rate did not return to wild-type levels.

      (2) Figure 3 - Figure Supplement 1 - The authors claim that "Rapamycin treatment during a single cell cycle provoked a similar effect although less pronounced." However, for most CARs, the effect appears insignificant. This should be acknowledged in the text.

      The text has been changed accordingly:

      “Rapamycin treatment during a single cell cycle provoked a similar stimulation of Rad21 binding at CARs (Figure 3—figure supplement 1), albeit with noticeable differences. In mis4+ cells, both mip1-R401G and rapamycin induced a significant increase in Rad21 binding at several CARs (tRNA-left, cc2, 3323, NTS, Tel1-R). However, some CARs that exhibited increased Rad21 binding in the mip1 mutant did not respond significantly to rapamycin (dg2-R, tRNA-R). Conversely, rapamycin (but not mip1-R401G) induced a significant increase in Rad21 binding at imr2-L and CAR1806 (Figure 3D and Figure 3— figure supplement 1). In the mis4-G1487D mutant background, mip1-R401G induced a significant increase in Rad21 binding at all examined sites (Figure 3B). Similarly, rapamycin did increase Rad21 binding at all sites but only at the Tel1-R site did this reach statistical significance (Figure 3—figure supplement 1).”

      (3) Figure 4 - The analysis of interactions between TORC1 and the cohesin complex is somewhat limited. The authors may wish to test interactions between Mip1 and cohesin subunits (e.g., Rad21). More interestingly, it would be valuable to explore whether MIP1 mutations that suppress cohesin mutants affect the interaction between Tor2 and Rad21.

      We have added some additional data that answer this question (Figure 4—figure supplement 1) and a paragraph in the manuscript:

      “Tor2, the kinase subunit of TORC1, is particularly well detected in Rad21 and Mis4 coimmunoprecipitation experiments (Figure 4 and Figure 4—figure supplement 1). To determine whether the R401G mutation in Mip1 affects these interactions, coimmunoprecipitation experiments were repeated in both the mip1-R401G and mip1+ contexts. The data obtained indicate that Tor2 co-immunoprecipitation with Mis4 and Rad21 is largely unaffected by the mip1-R401G mutation (Figure 4—figure supplement 1). If mip1-R401G affects the regulation of cohesin by TORC1, this does not appear to stem from a gross defect in their interaction, at least at this level of resolution.”

      (4) Figure 5 - There appears to be a lack of correlation between cohesin subunit phosphorylation in TORC1-reducing mutants and in response to rapamycin. The reason for this discrepancy is unclear.

      This point was addressed in the previous section (Public review, reviewer 1, point 1). The response is pasted below:

      The basis of our study was to search for suppressor mutants, a situation in which an unviable strain becomes viable. It turns out that the suppressor mutants affect TORC1, necessarily in a partial manner given that TORC1 kinase activity is essential for proliferation. Likewise rapamycin partially inhibits TORC1 and does not prevent proliferation of wild-type S. pombe cells. TORC1 mutants cause a constitutive decrease in activity with possible adaptive effects, whereas rapamycin is applied for a single cell cycle. In addition, it is known that bona fide TORC1 substrates respond differently to rapamycin. Some phosphosites show acute sensitivity, while others are less sensitive or even insensitive (Kang et al., 2013, PMID: 23888043). Therefore, both hypomorphic TORC1 genetic mutants and rapamycin treatment result in partial inhibition of TORC1 kinase activity. While the lists of affected TORC1 substrates may overlap, they are unlikely to be identical. Furthermore, the phosphorylation level of the relevant substrates is not necessarily altered to the same extent. Nevertheless, both conditions suppress the heatsensitive phenotype of the mis4 mutant, although the suppressor effect of rapamycin is weaker. Consequently, some phosphorylation sites involved in mis4-ts suppression may behave similarly in rapamycin and TORC1 mutants (i.e. Psm1-S1022), while others (i.e. Mis4-183) may behave differently.

      It is clear that there are phenotypic differences between the suppression of mis4-ts by rapamycin treatment or by genetic alteration of TORC1. This can be seen also in our ChIP analysis of Rad21 distribution at CARs. The trend is upward, but the pattern is not identical. We have added the following text to summarize the above considerations:

      “It is important to note at this stage that, although rapamycin and TORC1 mutants both decrease TORC1 kinase activity, the two are not equivalent. The mechanisms by which TORC1 kinase activity is reduced are different, and TORC1 mutants suppress the mis4G1487D phenotype more effectively than rapamycin. It is known that bona fide TORC1 substrates respond differently to rapamycin. Some phosphosites show acute sensitivity, while others are less sensitive or even insensitive (Kang et al, 2013). TORC1 mutants cause a constitutive decrease in activity with possible adaptive effects, whereas rapamycin is applied for a single cell cycle. While the lists of affected TORC1 substrates may overlap, they are unlikely to be identical. Furthermore, the phosphorylation level of the relevant substrates is not necessarily altered to the same extent. It is therefore remarkable that negative regulation of TORC1 by rapamycin or a genetic mutation both alleviate mis4G14878D phenotypes and have a fairly similar effect on cohesin dynamics.”

      (5) The phosphorylation sites examined on cohesin subunits are not canonical AGC kinase consensus motifs, suggesting they are unlikely to be direct targets of Sck1 or Sck2. I suggest that this point should be mentioned in the manuscript.

      This is now done:

      “The consensus site for Sck1 and Sck2 is unknown. If we assume some conservation with budding yeast SCH9, the consensus sequence would be RRxS/T. Psm1-S1022 (DQMSP) and Mis4-S183 (QLCSP) do not fit the consensus. However, this should be taken with care as many SCH9-dependent phosphorylation sites did not fall within the consensus in a study using analogue-sensitive AGC kinases and phosphoproteomics (Plank et al, 2020). Alternatively, Sck1-2 may regulate other kinases. Indeed Psm1-S1022 and Mis4-183 lie within CDK consensus sites and Psm1-S1022 phosphorylation is Pef1-dependent.”

      (6) Figure 5 - Figure Supplement 3 - The reduction in Psm1 phosphorylation in the sck1Δ sck2Δ double mutant is not convincing without replicates and statistical analysis.

      This is now done and the data are presented in Figure 5—figure supplement 3. Panel D shows the data for Psm1-S1022p and Panel E for Mis4-S183p. Each graph shows the mean ratios +/- SD from 3 experiments.

      (7) Figure 5C - It would be helpful if the authors validated the effect of pef1 deletion on Mis4 phosphorylation by Western blotting, rather than relying solely on mass spectrometry data.

      This is now done. The data appears in Figure 5—figure supplement 2, panel B.

      (8) The statement: "The frequency of chromosome segregation defects of mis4‐G1487D was markedly reduced in a sck2‐deleted background and further decreased by the additional deletion of sck1 (Figure 5-figure supplement 3)" is not supported by the data. According to the figure, the difference between sck2Δ and sck1Δ sck2Δ is not statistically significant.

      The sentence was changed to:

      “The frequency of chromosome segregation defects in the mis4-G1487D strain remained unchanged in a sck1-deleted background, but was significantly reduced when either the sck2 or both the sck1 and sck2 genes were deleted (Figure 5—figure supplement 3).”

      (9) Figure 6A - The data shown are not convincing. The double mutants carrying the phosphomimetic and phospho-null psm1 alleles should be shown on the same plate for direct comparison.

      This is now done. The new data are shown Figure 6A.

      (10) Figure 6E - The wild-type control is missing. Including it would provide an essential reference point to assess whether the mutants rescue cohesin binding to wild-type levels.

      This is true that the effects were small when compared to wild-type but still significant when compared to mis4-G1487D. The comparison with wild-type is now available in Figure 6—figure supplement 1 and the paragraph was modified accordingly:

      “Cohesin binding to CARs as assayed by ChIP tend to increase for the mutants mimicking the non-phosphorylated state and to decrease with the phospho-mimicking forms (Figure 6E). The rescue of mis4-G1487D by the non-phosphorylatable form was modest but significant, notably within centromeric regions (imr2-L, dg2-R) and at the telomere (Tel1-R) site (Figure 6E and see Figure 6—figure supplement 1 for comparison with wild-type levels). Conversely, the mutant mimicking the phosphorylated state displayed a significant reduction of Rad21 binding at those sites as well as to several other sites at the centromere (cc2, tRNA-R), CAR2898, and at the ribosomal non-transcribed spacer site NTS).”

      Limitations of the Study (not requiring additional experiments for publication, but worth noting).

      (11) The authors suggest that nutrient status affects cohesin, but this is not directly demonstrated-e.g., by comparing growth or cohesin dynamics or phosphorylation under defined nutrient conditions. That said, the paper is sufficiently detailed to allow this question to be addressed in follow-up work.

      We agree that studying the dynamics of cohesin, genome folding and gene expression in relation to nutrient availability is a very exciting topic, and we hope to address these issues in detail in the future.

      (12) The upstream signaling cascade remains unresolved. The identity of kinases downstream of TORC1 (e.g., whether Sck1/Sck2 or other factors are responsible) and whether TORC1 directly phosphorylates Mis4 or Psm1 are not established.

      This is something we can all agree on, and it might be something we look at in a future project.

      (13) The conclusions rely heavily on one TORC1 mutant allele (mip1-R401G). While this allele is informative, additional alleles or orthogonal methods could further support the generality of the findings.

      It is true that we focused our attention on mip1-R401G, which is present in all the experiments presented. That said, other alleles were used in one or more figures. Five mip1 alleles and one tor2 allele were identified as mis4-ts suppressors (Fig. 1). We have also shown that another mip1 allele, mip1-Y533A, created by another group (Morozumi et al, 2021), is also a suppressor of mis4-ts and affects the phosphorylation of Mis4-S183 and Psm1-S1022 (Fig. 1, Figure 5—figure supplement 1). To this we can add the effect of mutants that render TORC1 hyperactive (Fig. 1E, Fig. 2H) as well as AGC kinase mutants (Figure 5—figure supplement 3.) and finally, the effect of a transient treatment with rapamycin. So yes, mip1-R401G has been used extensively, but we have still broadly covered the TORC1 signalling pathway.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Given the lack of CTCF in fission yeast, it is worth noting that cohesin ChIP data nonetheless can predict topological domains, which reinforces its important role in dictating chromatin folding (PMID: 39543681).

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. We now refer to this study in the discussion section.

      (2) Providing context for the S. pombe nomenclature for the conserved cohesin subunits would help the reader navigate the manuscript, possibly using a cartoon as for the TORC complexes. For example, Psm1 (aka Smc1) is not introduced and therefore its phosphorylation comes into the manuscript without explanation.

      Cohesin subunits and their names are given in the introduction section.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This manuscript presents high-resolution cryoEM structures of VPS34-complex II bound to Rab5A at 3.2A resolution. The Williams group previously reported the structure of VPS34 complex II bound to Rab5A on liposomes using tomography, and therefore, the previous structure, although very informative, was at lower resolution.

      The first new structure they present is of the 'REIE>AAAA' mutant complex bound to RAB5A. The structure resembles the previously determined one, except that an additional molecule of RAB5A was observed bound to the complex in a new position, interacting with the solenoid of VPS15.

      Although this second binding site exhibited reduced occupancy of RAB5A in the structure, the authors determined an additional structure in which the primary binding site was mutated to prevent RAB5A binding ('REIE>ERIR'). In this structure, there is no RAB5A bound to the primary binding site on VPS34, but the RAB5A bound to VPS15 now has strong density. The authors note that the way in which RAB5A interacts with each site is distinct, though both interfaces involve the switch regions. The authors confirm the location of this additional binding site using HDX-MS.

      The authors then determine multiple structures of the wild-type complex bound to RAB5A from a single sample, as they use 3D classifications to separate out versions of the complex bound to 0, 1, or 2 copies of RAB5A. Overall, the structure of VPS34-Complex II does not change between the different states, and the data indicate that both RAB5A binding sites can be occupied at the same time.

      The authors then design a new mutant form of the complex (SHMIT>DDMIE) that is expected to disrupt the interaction at the secondary site between VPS15 and RAB5A. This mutation had a minor impact on the Kd for RAB5A binding, but when combined with the REIE>ERIR mutation of the primary binding site, RAB5A binding to the complex was abolished.

      Comparison of sequences across species indicated that the RAB5A binding site on VPS15 was conserved in yeast,while the RAB5A binding site on VPS34 is not.

      The authors tested the impact of a corresponding yeast Vps15 mutation (SHLITY>DDLIEY) predicted to disrupt interaction with yeast Rab5/Vps21, and found that this mutant Vps15 protein was mislocalized and caused defective CPY processing.

      The authors then compare these structures of the RAB5A-class II complex to recently published structures from the Hurley group of the RAB1A-class I complex, and find that in both complexes the Rab protein is bound to the VPS34 binding site in a somewhat similar manner. However, a key difference is that the position of VPS34 is slightly different in the two complexes because of the unique ATL14L and UVRAG subunits in the class I and class II complexes, respectively. This difference creates a different RAB binding pocket that explains the difference in RAB specificity between the two complexes.

      Finally, the higher resolution structures enable the authors to now model portions of BECLIN1 and UVRAG that were not previously modeled in the cryoET structure.

      Strengths:

      Overall, I found this to be an interesting and comprehensive study of the structural basis for the interaction of RAB5A with VPS34-complex II. The authors have performed experiments to validate their structural interpretations, and they present a clear and thorough comparative analysis of the Rab binding sites in the two different VPS34 complexes. The result is a much better understanding of how two different Rab GTPases specifically recruit two different, but highly similar complexes to the membrane surface.

      Weaknesses:

      No significant weaknesses were noted.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The work by Spokaite et al describes the discovery of a novel Rab5 binding site present in complex II of class III PI3K using a combination of HDX and Cryo EM. Extensive mutational and sequence analysis define this as the primordial Rab5 interface. The data presented are convincing that this is indeed a biologically relevant interface, and is important in defining mechanistically how VPS34 complexes are regulated.

      This paper is a very nice expansion of their previous cryo-ET work from 2021, and is an excellent companion piece on high-resolution cryo-EM of the complex I class III complex bound to Rab1 from the Hurley lab in 2025. Overall, this work is of excellent technical quality and answers important unexplained observations on some unexpected mutational analysis from the previous work.

      They used their increased affinity VPS34 mutant to determine the 3.2 ang structure of Rab5 bound to VPS34-CII. Clear density was seen for the original Rab5 interface, but an additional site was observed. Based on this structure, they mutated out the VPS34 interface, allowing for a high-resolution structure of the Rab5 bound at the VPS15 interface.

      They extensively validated the VPS15 interface in the yeast variant of VPS34, showing that the Vp215-Rab5 (VPS21) interface identified is critical in controlling complex II VPS34 recruitment.

      The major strengths of this paper are that the experiments appear to be done carefully and rigorously, and I have very few experimental suggestions.

      Here is what I recommend based on some very minor weaknesses I observed

      (1) My main concern has to do a little bit with presentation. My main issue is how the authors use mutant description. They clearly indicate the mutant sequence in the human isoform (for example, see Figure 2A, VPS15 described as 579-SHMIT-583>DDMIE); however, when they shift to the yeast version, they shift to saying VPS15 mutant, but don't define the mutant, Figure 2G). I would recommend they just include the same sequence numbering and WT to mutant replacement every time a new mutant (or species) is described. It is always easier to interpret what is being shown when the authors are jumping between species, when the exact mutant is included. This is particularly important in this paper, where we are jumping between different subunits and different species, so a clear description in the figure/figure legends makes it much easier to read for non-specialists.

      The reviewer has made an excellent point here. To clarify the yeast mutation, we have revised the manuscript main text to refer to the yeast mutant as SHLITY>DDLIEY, and we have added this to the legend for Figs. 2F,G.

      (2) The HDX data very clearly shows that Rab5 is likely able to bind at both sites, which back ups the cryo EM data nicely. I am slightly confused by some of the HDX statements described in the methods.

      (3) The authors state, "Only statistically significant peptides showing a difference greater than 0.25 Da and greater than 5% for at least two timepoints were kept." This seems to be confusing as to why they required multiple timepoints, and before they also describe that they required a p-value of less than 0.05. It might be clearer to state that significant differences required a 0.25 Da, 5%, and p-value of <0.05 (n=3). Also, what do they mean by kept? Does this mean that they only fully processed the peptides with differences?

      (4) They show peptide traces for a selection in the supplement, but it would be ideal to include the full set of HDX data as an Excel file, including peptides with no differences, as there is a lot of additional information (deuteration levels for everything) that would be useful to share, as recommended from the Masson et al 2019 recommendations paper. This may be attached, but this reviewer could not see an example of it in the shared data dropbox folder.

      We have revised the HDX method description to clarify. All peptides were kept and fully processed. However, for the results displayed, we have illustrated only peptides meeting the criteria described.

      The Excel file for all peptides (as recommended by Masson et al) was deposited with PRIDE, with the identifier with the dataset identifier PXD061277, in addition, we have included this excel file in our supplementary material.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript of Spokaite et al. focuses on the Vps34 complex involved in PI3P production. This complex exists in two variants, one (class I) specific for autophagy, and a second one (class II) specific for the endocytic system. Both differ only in one subunit. The authors previously showed that the Vps34 complexes interact with Rab GTPases, Rab1 or Rab5 (for class II), and the identified site was found at Vps34. Now, the authors identify a conserved and overlooked Rab5 binding site in Vps15, which is required for the function of the Class II complex. In support of this, they show cryo-EM data with a second Rab5 bound to Vps15, identify the corresponding residues, and show by mutant analysis that impaired Rab5 binding also results in defects using yeast as a model system.

      Overall, this is a most complete study with little to criticize. The paper shows convincingly that the two Rab5 binding sites are required for Vps34 complex II function, with the Vps15 binding site being critical for endosomal localization. The structural data is very much complete.

      Weaknesses:

      What I am missing are a few controls that show that the mutations in Vps15 do not affect autophagy. I am wondering if this mutant is still functional in autophagy. This can be simply tested by sorting of Atg8 to the vacuole lumen using established assays or by following PhoΔ60 sorting. This analysis would reveal that the corresponding mutant is specific for the Class II complex.

      One of the first noted features of the VPS34 complexes was that the ATG14-containing complex (VPS34-CI) is important for autophagy, while the VPS38 (yeast orthologue of UVRAG) subunit characteristic of VPS34-CII is important for endocytic sorting (PMID 11157979). However, the VPS34, VPS15 and BECLIN1 subunits are required are present in both complexes, as such, mutations of them may affect both processes.

      We agree with the reviewer that is an important undertaking to examine the effect of the SHLITY>DDLIEY mutation in yeast Vps15 on autophagy. However, the focus of the current manuscript is VPS34-complex II and RAB5 interaction/activation. An autophagy effect would be more relevant for VPS34 complex I and RAB1. We have not presented any results for human VPS34-complex I - RAB1 nor yeast Vps34-complex I – Ypt1 (yeast RAB1 orthologue). We are preparing another manuscript focusing entirely on this, and it is not a simple story. While we think this is an important question, we believe that this is beyond the scope of the current manuscript.

      It would be helpful if the authors could clarify whether they believe that Vps34 kinase activity is stimulated by Rab binding or whether this stimulation is a consequence of better membrane localization of Vps34. In other words, is the complex active with soluble PI3P in solution, and does the activity change if Rab5 is added to the complex? This might have been addressed in the past, but I did not see evidence for this, as the authors only addressed the activity of the Vps34 complexes on membranes.

      The reviewer has raised an excellent question, which was addressed briefly in the introduction to the manuscript. We have now somewhat expanded on these issues near the end of the discussion in the revised manuscript. In our previously published study, we found that soluble RAB5-GTP did not stimulate the complex II activity (supplementary figure 2b of PMID: 33692360). This is consistent with our finding in this manuscript showing that RAB5 did not cause large conformational changes in solution. However, our previous single-molecule study showed that once complex II is recruited to the membrane by RAB5, and RAB5 increases the turnover rate on membranes, indicating an additional allosteric activation (Figure 7 of PMID: 33137306). This study indicated that the primary the role of RAB5 is to anchor complex II on the membrane. Once the complex is anchored on the membrane by RAB5, the kinase domain is in the vicinity of its substrate, PI, leading to higher turnover.

      The Echelon Class III PI3K ELISA Kit (Echelon, K-3000) comes with a soluble PI, diC8 to measure the VPS34 activity, and it is certainly active with this soluble substrate. However, if the substrate is in membranes, the VPS34 activity is greatly dependent on the character of the membrane.

      I also found the last paragraph of the results section a bit out of place, even though this is a nice observation that the N-terminal part of BECLIN has these domains. However, what does it add to the story?

      The reviewer is correct that the high-resolution features of BECLIN1 at the base of the V-shaped complex that we observed are not related to RAB5 binding, but they are characteristic of VPS34-CII and likely to be important for the specific role of VPS34-CII. This is the first high-resolution structure of the VPS34-CII that has been reported, and we believe it would be irresponsible not to briefly describe them, since they are unique to VPS34-CII. For this reason, we have placed this section at the end of the results, and we now clarify that we do not see a relevance to RAB5 function, but we describe the arrangement of a region (the BH3) that has been functionally noted in many previous studies, in the absence of a structure.

      Reviewing Editor Comments:

      Please address the following suggestions for minor changes to the manuscript. Use your best scientific judgment in addressing the comments and describe the modifications together with your reasoning in a cover letter. We look forward to seeing the revised version of this very nice study.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I found a portion of the description of the cryoEM complexes on the top of page 9 to be redundant with similar descriptions near the top of page 7, and it was not clear to me at first that these were describing the same structures. Part of my confusion was due to the redundancy, including the statement near the bottom of page 7: 'Models were built and refined for all RAB5associated VPS34-CII assemblies', and then the similar statement on page 9: 'We fit and refined atomic models into both densities'. I believe these are describing the same models? To clarify for the reader, perhaps on page 9, the authors could begin this part with a statement such as "as described above", and eliminate the redundant descriptions.

      The reviewer is correct. Both sections describe the same set of cryo-EM classes from the same sample. The only difference is what we analysed in the two sections: number of RAB5s bound in the first section and the effect of RAB5 binding in the second section. We have revised the text to make this clear, and to make the second section more succinct.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) The authors show nicely that a mutation in Vps15 disrupts binding to Vps21 in vivo, with defects in the endocytic pathway as analyzed by CPY sorting. I am wondering if this mutant is still functional in autophagy. This can be simply tested by sorting of Atg8 to the vacuole lumen using established assays or by following Pho∆60 sorting. This analysis would reveal that the corresponding mutant is specific for the Class II complex. If the authors were to find evidence that this Vps15 mutant also affects autophagy, it would indicate that there is possibly also another Rab1 binding site in Vps15.

      As we stated above, an autophagy effect would be more relevant for VPS34 complex I and RAB1. We have not presented any results for human VPS34-complex I - RAB1 nor yeast Vps34-complex I – Ypt1 (yeast RAB1 orthologue). We are preparing another manuscript focusing entirely on this, and it is not a simple story. While we think this is an important question, we believe that this is beyond the scope of the current manuscript.

      (2) It would be helpful if the authors could clarify whether they believe that Vps34 kinase activity is stimulated by Rab binding or whether this stimulation is a consequence of better membrane localization of Vps34. In other words, is the complex active with soluble PI3P in solution, and does the activity change if Rab5 is added to the complex? This might have been addressed in the past, but I did not see evidence for this, as the authors only addressed the activity of the Vps34 complexes on membranes.

      As in our response to reviewer #3 above, this point was addressed in previous publications and was described in the introduction to our manuscript.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      eLife Assessment

      This important study provides compelling evidence that fever-like temperatures enhance the export of Plasmodium falciparum transmembrane proteins, including the cytoadherence protein PfEMP1 and the nutrient channel PSAC, to the red blood cell surface, thereby increasing cytoadhesion. Using rigorous and well-controlled experiments, the authors convincingly demonstrate that this effect results from accelerated protein trafficking rather than changes in protein production or parasite development. These findings significantly advance our understanding of parasite virulence mechanisms and offer insights into how febrile episodes may exacerbate malaria severity.

      We thank all reviewers for their constructive feedback on our manuscript.

      We believe we have addressed all the questions in the rebuttal below in writing, including planned experiments we will perform to strengthen the conclusions of the manuscript.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This manuscript from Jones and colleagues investigates a previously described phenomenon in which P. falciparum malaria parasites display increased trafficking of proteins displayed on the surface of infected RBCs, as well as increased cytoadherence in response to febrile temperatures. While this parasite response was previously described, it was not uniformly accepted, and conflicting reports can be found in the literature. This variability likely arises due to differences in the methods employed and the degree of temperature increase to which the parasites were exposed. Here, the authors are very careful to employ a temperature shift that likely reflects what is happening in infected humans and that they demonstrate is not detrimental to parasite viability or replication. In addition, they go on to investigate what steps in protein trafficking are affected by exposure to increased temperature and show that the effect is not specific to PfEMP1 but rather likely affects all transmembrane domain-containing proteins that are trafficked to the RBC. They also detect increased rates of phosphorylation of trafficked proteins, consistent with overall increased protein export.

      Strengths:

      The authors used a relatively mild increase in temperature (39 degrees), which they demonstrate is not detrimental to parasite viability or replication. This enabled them to avoid potential complications of a more severe heat shock that might have affected previously published studies. They employed a clever method of fractionation of RBCs infected with a var2csa-nanoluc fusion protein expressing parasite line to determine which step in the export pathway was likely accelerating in response to increased temperature. This enabled them to determine that export across the PVM is being affected. They also explored changes in phosphorylation of exported proteins and demonstrated that the effect is not limited to PfEMP1 but appears to affect numerous (or potentially all) exported transmembrane domain-containing proteins.

      Weaknesses:

      All the experiments investigating changes resulting from increased temperature were conducted after an increase in temperature from 16 to 24 hours, with sampling or assays conducted at the 24 hr mark. While this provided consistency throughout the study, this is a time point relatively early in the export of proteins to the RBC surface, as shown in Figure 1E. At 24 hrs, only approximately 50% of wildtype parasites are positive for PfEMP1, while at 32 hrs this approaches 80%. Since the authors only checked the effect of heat stress at 24 hrs, it is not possible to determine if the changes they observe reflect an overall increase in protein trafficking or instead a shift to earlier (or an accelerated) trafficking. In other words, if a second time point had been considered (for example, 32 hrs or later), would the parasites grown in the absence of heat stress catch up?

      We did not assess cytoadhesion at later stages, but in the supplementary figures we show that at 40 hours post infection both heat stress and control conditions have comparable proportions of VAR2CSA-positive iRBCs, whilst they differ at 24h. This is true for the DMSO (control wildtype resembling) HA-tagged lines of HSP70x and PF3D7_072500 (Supplementary Figures 9 and 12 respectively). In the light that protein levels appear not changed, we conclude that trafficking is accelerated during these earlier timepoints, but remains comparable at later stages. This would still increase the overall bound parasite mass as parasites start to adhere earlier during or after a heat stress.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      This manuscript describes experiments characterising how malaria parasites respond to physiologically relevant heat-shock conditions. The authors show, quite convincingly, that moderate heat-shock appears to increase cytoadherance, likely by increasing trafficking of surface proteins involved in this process.

      While generally of a high quality and including a lot of data, I have a few small questions and comments, mainly regarding data interpretation.

      (1) The authors use sorbitol lysis as a proxy for trafficking of PSAC components. This is a very roundabout way of doing things and does not, I think, really show what they claim. There could be a myriad of other reasons for this increased activity (indeed, the authors note potential PSAC activation under these conditions). One further reason could be a difference in the membrane stability following heat shock, which may affect sorbitol uptake, or the fragility of the erythrocytes to hypotonic shock. I really suggest that the authors stick to what they show (increased PSAC) without trying to use this as evidence for increased trafficking of a number of non-specified proteins that they cannot follow directly.

      This is a valid point, however, uninfected RBCs do not lyse following heat stress, nor do much younger iRBCs, indicating that the observed effect is specific to infected RBCs at a defined stage. The sorbitol sensitivity assay is performed at 37°C under normal conditions after cells are returned to non–heat stress temperatures, so the effect is not due to transient changes in membrane permeability at elevated temperature.

      Planned experiment: However, to increase the strength of our conclusions and further test our hypothesis, we will perform sorbitol sensitivity assays on >20 hours post infection iRBCs following heat stress in the presence and absence of furosemide, a PSAC inhibitor. If iRBC lysis is abolished with furosemide present, this would confirm that the effect is PSAC-dependent. However, the effect could also possibly be due to altered PSAC activity during heat stress which is maintained at lower temperatures, as outlined in the discussion.

      New Results:

      We performed sorbitol sensitivity assays on >20 hours post-infection iRBCs following heat stress in the presence and absence of the PSAC inhibitor furosemide. These additional experiments were added to the supplementary figures (Supplementary Figure 3). Importantly, sorbitol-mediated lysis of iRBCs, with or without prior heat stress, was reduced when furosemide was present, demonstrating that the observed effect is likely PSAC-dependent. We also observed that uninfected RBCs did not lyse with sorbitol, regardless of heat stress, confirming that the effect is specific to infected cells.

      (2) Supplementary Figure 6C/D: The KAHRP signal does not look like it should. In fact, it doesn't look like anything specific. The HSP70-X signal is also blurry and overexposed. These pictures cannot be used to justify the authors' statements about a lack of colocalisation in any way.

      Planned experiment: We agree that the IFAs are not the best as presented and will include better quality supplementary images in a revised version.

      New Results:

      Immunofluorescence microscopy, including the localisation of the two HA-tagged proteins (PF3D7_1039000 and PF3D7_0702500), has been repeated and higher-quality images are now included in the updated manuscript (Supplementary Figures 9 and 11). These images include co-staining with the P. falciparum proteins KAHRP and SPB1 to assess possible co-localisations. Furthermore, following the reviewer’s suggestion, we have softened the statement regarding PF3D7_1039000-HA to better reflect the data, changing “...does not colocalise” to “...does not strongly colocalise”.

      (3) Figure 6: This experiment confuses me. The authors purport to fractionate proteins using differential lysis, but the proteins they detect are supposed to be transmembrane proteins and thus should always be found associated with the pellet, whether lysis is done using equinatoxin or saponin. Have they discovered a currently unknown trafficking pathway to tell us about? Whilst there is a lot of discussion about the trafficking pathways for TM proteins through the host cell, a number of studies have shown that these proteins are generally found in a membrane-bound state. The authors should elaborate, or choose an experiment that is capable of showing compartment-specific localisation of membrane-bound proteins (protease protection, for example).

      We do not believe we identified a novel trafficking pathway, but that we capture trafficking intermediates of PfEMP1 between the PVM and the RBC periphery, in either small vesicles, and possibly including Maurer’s clefts. These would still be membrane embedded, but because of their small size, not be pelleted using the centrifugation speeds in our study (we did not use ultracentrifugation). This explanation, we believe, is in line with the current hypothesis of PfEMP1 and other exported TMD protein trafficking to the periphery or the Maurer’s clefts.

      (4) The red blood cell contains, in addition to HSP70-X, a number of human HSPs (HSP70 and HSP90 are significant in this current case). As the name suggests, these proteins non-specifically shield exposed hydrophobic domains revealed upon partial protein unfolding following thermal insult. I would thus have expected to find significantly more enrichment following heat shock, but this is not the case. Is it possible that the physiological heat shock conditions used in this current study are not high enough to cause a real heat shock?

      As noted by the reviewer, we do not see enrichment of red blood cell heat shock proteins following heat stress, either with FIKK10.2-TurboID or in the phosphoproteome. We used a physiologically relevant heat stress that significantly modifies the iRBC, as shown by our functional assays. While a higher temperature might induce an association of red blood cell heat shock proteins, such conditions may not accurately reflect the most commonly found in the context of malaria infection.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this paper, it is established that high fever-like 39 C temperatures cause parasite-infected red blood cells to become stickier. It is thought that high temperatures might help the spleen to destroy parasite-infected cells, and they become stickier in order to remain trapped in blood vessels, so they stop passing through the spleen.

      Strengths:

      The strength of this research is that it shows that fever-like temperatures can cause parasite-infected red blood cells to stick to surfaces designed to mimic the walls of small blood vessels. In a natural infection, this would cause parasite-infected red blood cells to stop circulating through the spleen, where the parasites would be destroyed by the immune system. It is thought that fevers could lead to infected red blood cells becoming stiffer and therefore more easily destroyed in the spleen. Parasites respond to fevers by making their red blood cells stickier, so they stop flowing around the body and into the spleen. The experiments here prove that fever temperatures increase the export of Velcro-like sticky proteins onto the surface of the infected red blood cells and are very thorough and convincing.

      Weaknesses:

      A minor weakness of the paper is that the effects of fever on the stiffness of infected red blood cells were not measured. This can be easily done in the laboratory by measuring how the passage of infected red blood cells through a bed of tiny metal balls is delayed under fever-like temperatures.

      Previous work by Marinkovic et al. (cited in this manuscript) reported that all RBCs, both infected and uninfected, increase in stiffness at 41 °C compared with 37 °C, with trophozoites and schizonts exhibiting a particularly pronounced increase. We agree that it would be interesting to determine whether similar changes occur at physiological fever-like temperatures, and whether this increase in stiffness coincides with the period of elevated protein trafficking. However, here we focused on enhanced protein export using multiple complementary approaches, and have chosen to address rigidity questions in a different study.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      As mentioned above, a second time point in many of the assays (for example, 36 hrs or later) would be useful to determine if heat stress simply accelerates trafficking of proteins to the RBC or if instead it results in an overall increase in trafficking.

      As mentioned earlier: We did not assess cytoadhesion at later stages, but in the supplementary figures we show that at 40 hours post infection both heat stress and control conditions have comparable proportions of VAR2CSA-positive iRBCs. This is true for the DMSO (control wildtype resembling) HA-tagged lines of HSP70x and PF3D7_072500 (Supplementary Figures 9 and 12 respectively). The end level of VAR2CSA is the same in both conditions, but at 24 hours post infection it is higher following heat stress, indicating that trafficking is accelerated.

      In the text, the authors frequently mention changes in the parasites' phenotype in response to heat stress; however, the way it is described is a bit ambiguous and can be confusing. For example, on page 3, they state that "Following heat stress, significantly more iRBCs (57.6% +/-19.4%) cytoadhered.....". From this sentence, it is not initially clear if the end result is cytoadherence of 57.6% of iRBCs or if this refers to an increase of 57.6%. This could be stated explicitly (e.g., "an increase of 57.6% +/- 19.4%") to avoid confusion. Similar descriptions of the results are found throughout the paper.

      We agree this is confusing and altered the text accordingly.

      The authors might consider citing and discussing the paper from Andrade et al (Nat Med, 2020, 26:1929-1940), which describes longer circulation times (less cytoadherence) by parasites in the dry season (asymptomatic patients) than in febrile patients in the wet season (stronger cytoadhesion of younger stages). This would seem to be consistent with the data presented here.

      We are aware of the Andrade study, but chose not to cite it in this context since the reported differences in cytoadhesion appear more consistent with PfEMP1 expression levels, as hypothesized by the authors, than with altered trafficking.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      General comments on the text:

      (1) "Approximately 10% of the proteins encoded by P. falciparum are predicted to be exported beyond the parasite plasma membrane (PPM) into the parasitophorous vacuole lumen (PVL) and subsequently across the parasitophorous vacuole membrane (PVM) into the RBC cytosol."

      To my knowledge, it has not been really demonstrated that all exported proteins take this route (transfer step in the PVL), and how transmembrane proteins transfer from the parasite to the erythrocyte is still poorly understood. I recommend that the authors rephrase this for precision.

      We agree with this reviewer and will change the statement.

      Changes:

      We have clarified these statements to accurately reflect the current understanding of protein export. Approximately 10% of P. falciparum encoded proteins are predicted to be exported beyond the parasite plasma membrane, with many thought to pass through the parasitophorous vacuole lumen (PVL) and parasitophorous vacuole membrane (PVM) into the RBC cytosol, although the exact routes for transmembrane proteins are not fully understood.”

      (2) "Charnaud et al. 25, but not Cobb et al. 26, found HSP70x to be essential for normal PfEMP1 trafficking, although both studies concluded that HSP70x is dispensable for intraerythrocytic parasite growth at 37 {degree sign}C."

      The trafficking block in Charnaud is likely due to a delay in parasite development and cannot thus really be directly related to PfEMP1 trafficking.

      Charnaud et al., report: “Microscopy of Giemsa stained IE indicated that ΔHsp70-x appeared similar to CS2 with no obvious abnormalities (Fig 2c). To more accurately quantify changes in maturation through the cell cycle, the DNA content of parasites stained with ethidium bromide was measured by flow cytometry (Fig 2d). This indicated that most parasites had the same DNA content at each timepoint and were maturing at the same rate.”

      Thus, we cannot conclude that the trafficking phenotype reported in the Charnaud study can be attributed to a growth delay. This is also supported by only minor changes in the transcriptome, which would likely be more widely perturbed if there was a significant growth delay. However, we will change the statement “Charnaud et al., found HSP70x to be essential for normal PfEMP1 trafficking”, to ”…important for PfEMP1 trafficking” to more precisely reflect the data.

      (3) "NanoLuciferase (NanoLuc) fusion proteins and compartment-specific isolation confirmed a greater abundance of PfEMP1 in the RBC cytosol following heat stress."

      Please see my comments about the differentiation between soluble and TM-containing proteins. One would expect that PfEMP1 is membrane-integrated, and thus should not be found in the cytosol (implying a soluble form).

      See our response above.

      (4) "Importantly, heat stress did not accelerate parasite development through the asexual life cycle (Supplementary Figure 1)."

      The authors should constrain this statement to the time frame in which the heat-shock was given. Previous publications have shown a speeded-up development only in younger-stage parasites, which the authors did not study.

      We will re-phrase.

      Changes:

      We have rephrased the sentence to clarify the time window of heat stress: ”Importantly, heat stress between 16-24 hours post-invasion did not accelerate parasite development through the asexual life cycle (Supplementary Figure 1).” The supplementary figure title has also been updated to match.

      (5) I recommend that the authors include line numbers. This makes the reviewers' lives much easier.

      We agree and apologize for this oversight.

      We now added line numbers.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) All the experiments have been performed to a very high standard, and I have no major questions about the results. However, the paper would go up to the next level if the effect of fever temperatures on the stiffness of the iRBCs had been investigated by measuring the passage of iRBCs through an artificial spleen where a bed of metal spheres mimics interendothelial splenic slits.

      See our comment from above.

      (2) With respect to Figures 5E, 6C, and 6E, why was there not a decrease in bioluminescence levels at 39 {degree sign}C for Sap and NP40 to match the increase in EqtII?

      The assay is not performed as a sequence of permeabilisation steps. Instead, samples are split into three parallel treatments: one with EqtII, one with Saponin, and one with NP40. The protein measured in each case reflects the total released under that specific condition rather than being cumulative. Therefore, the NP40 fraction includes proteins from the Saponin-accessible compartment, the EqtII-accessible compartment, and the parasite cytosol.

      (3) In the Supplementary gene maps, I could not read the white text on the black gene boxes.

      We apologize: these have not converted well and will be altered with the revised version.

      Changes

      We have significantly increased the size of all fonts within the gene maps and improved the resolution of the figures to improve readability.

      (4) In Figure S6, why does HSP70-x look different between parts C and D IFAs, with the latter showing much more export?

      We agree these IFAs are not optimal and we will provide better images.

      New Results:

      Immunofluorescence microscopy, including the localisation of the two HA-tagged proteins (PF3D7_1039000 and PF3D7_0702500), has been repeated and higher-quality images are now included in the updated manuscript (Supplementary Figures 9 and 11). These figures now include multiple images of HA-tagged staining to more accurately represent the observed localisation and export patterns.

      (5) Would the authors care to comment on what kinase might be additionally phosphorylating at 39 {degree sign}C?

      We presume these are Maurer’s clefts FIKK kinases as most of the hyperphosphorylated proteins are MC residents. However, without directly testing for this using conditional KO parasite lines, we cannot exclude that host kinases are also playing a role.

      (6) Could the additional assembly of PSAC at the iRBC membrane be important for survival at 39 {degree sign}C?

      We have tested to see if nutrient uptake helps parasite survival during heat stress in the presence of furosemide and lower nutrient concentrations, but did not see a difference in growth following heat stress compared to control temperature conditions.

      New Results:

      We have added a new supplementary figure (Supplementary Figure 4) detailing experiments testing parasite growth under altered nutrient availability using two approaches (sub-lethal furosemide concentrations or reduced-nutrient RPMI) and with or without a 40°C heat stress applied between 16-24 hpi.

      The main text now references this data: “Culturing parasites in sub-lethal furosemide concentrations or in reduced nutrient media lead to reduced parasitaemia (Supplementary Figure 4). However, the parasitaemia is not further reduced following heat stress. This shows that increased PSAC levels/activity do not enhance parasite survival under conditions of limited nutrient availability either from furosemide-induced nutrient deprivation or a reduced nutrient media composition.”

      These experiments show that nutrient uptake does not improve parasite survival during heat stress compared to control temperature conditions.

      (7) Would the authors like to speculate on how higher temperatures increase the transport of exported proteins with TMDs?

      There are many possible explanations, one of which is that unfolding of the hydrophobic TMD domains is favoured at elevated temperatures. However, we have no data to support this hypothesis and therefore refrained from particularly stating this possibility.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public review:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Weaknesses:

      The authors focused primarily on female mice without commenting on the effect that sex differences would have on their results.

      We agree that sex is an important biological variable. Our experiments were performed primarily in female mice to align with the higher prevalence of affective disorders in females and to maintain consistency across experiments. We now explicitly acknowledge this as a limitation in the Discussion and note that future studies will be needed to determine whether the projection-specific coding principles identified here generalize to male animals. Relevant literature on sex-specific mPFC→BLA/NAc function has also been incorporated.

      While the authors have identified relevant behavioral states across the various behavioral tasks, there is still a missing link between them and "emotional states" - the phrase used by them emphatically throughout the manuscript. The authors have neither provided adequate references to satisfy this gap nor shared any data pertaining to relevant readouts such as cortisol levels.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s concern regarding the use of the term “emotional states.” In the revised manuscript, we have clarified our terminology and now use “behavioral states associated with affective valence” where appropriate. We have also added references supporting the use of open field center vs. corner occupancy, elevated plus maze performance, and social interaction assays as established proxies for anxiety-like and affect-related behaviors.

      Importantly, to provide physiological support for these interpretations, we now include data showing that repeated win/loss outcomes in the tube test are associated with increased corticosterone levels in loser mice. These results indicate that the behavioral manipulations used in this study are accompanied by measurable physiological changes linked to stress-related processes.

      Both the projection-specific recordings and patch-clamp experiments, including histology reports in the manuscript, would provide essential information for anyone trying to replicate the results, especially since it's known that sub-populations in the BLA and NAc can have vastly different functions.

      We agree that detailed reporting of projection targeting is important for reproducibility. We have expanded the Methods and Results to more clearly describe viral targeting, recording locations, and histological verification of mPFC projections to the lateral BLA and NAc shell. We also now explicitly acknowledge the anatomical and cellular heterogeneity within these regions as a limitation and discuss this as an important direction for future work.

      The population-level analysis in the manuscript requires more rigor to reduce bias and statistical controls for establishing the significance of their results.

      We have strengthened the statistical analyses throughout the manuscript. Specifically, we have incorporated permutation-based controls for key analyses, clarified how behavioral and neural features were defined, and provided additional details on dimensionality reduction and clustering approaches. Exact p values, sample sizes, and statistical tests are now reported throughout the manuscript and figure legends.

      Lastly, the tube test is used as a manipulation of the "emotional state" in several of the experiments. While the tube test can cause a temporary spike in anxiety of the participating mice, it is not known to produce a sustained effect - unless there are additional interventions such as forced social defeat. Thus, additional controls for these experiments are essential to support claims based on changes in the emotional state of mice.

      We agree that the tube test is not a classical chronic stress paradigm such as social defeat. In our study, the tube test was used to establish social hierarchy rather than to model sustained stress. We have revised the manuscript to clarify this point and have tempered our language accordingly. At the same time, our corticosterone measurements indicate that repeated social competition induces measurable physiological changes, suggesting that the paradigm captures aspects of social hierarchy–related stress. We now frame these effects conservatively and acknowledge the need for future studies using additional stress paradigms.

      Apart from the methodology, the manuscript could also be improved with the addition of clear scatter points in all the plots along with detailed measures of the statistical tests such as exact p values and size of groups being compared.

      We have revised all figures to include individual data points (scatter overlays) wherever appropriate and have improved reporting of statistical details, including exact p values and group sizes, to enhance transparency and reproducibility.

      Taken together, these revisions clarify our interpretations, improve methodological transparency, and strengthen the rigor of the analyses while preserving the main conclusions of the study.

      Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

      Weaknesses:

      The diversity of neurons mediating these projections and their targeting within the BLA and NAc is not explored. These are not homogeneous structures and so one possibility is that some of the diversity within their findings may relate to targeting of different sub-structures within each region.

      We agree that both the basolateral amygdala (BLA) and nucleus accumbens (NAc) are highly heterogeneous. Our study was designed to focus on projection-defined mPFC outputs (presynaptic activity) rather than resolving postsynaptic subregional or cell-type diversity. We have now:

      - Clarified targeting strategies (PL→NAc shell and PL→BLA basal region)

      - Added histological descriptions of injection and recording sites

      - Expanded the Discussion to acknowledge how subregional and cellular heterogeneity may contribute to the observed variability

      We also highlight this as an important direction for future work.

      The electrophysiological data have significant experimental confounds and more methodological information is required to support other conclusions related to these data.

      We have significantly strengthened the electrophysiological component by:

      - Providing detailed recording conditions (access resistance, membrane properties, inclusion criteria)

      - Clarifying stimulus protocols and normalization procedures

      - Including representative traces and quantification of exclusion rates

      - Addressing potential confounds such as viral expression variability and stimulation parameters

      These revisions improve both interpretability and reproducibility of the electrophysiological findings.

      Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

      Major Weaknesses:

      (1) The manuscript does not clearly and consistently specify the sex of the mice used for behavioral and imaging experiments. Given the known influence of sex on emotional behaviors and neural activity, this omission raises concerns about the generalizability of the findings. The authors should make clear throughout the manuscript whether male, female, or mixed-sex cohorts were used and provide a rationale for their choice. If only one sex was used, the potential limitations of this approach should be explicitly discussed.

      We agree that sex is an important biological variable. We have now clearly specified throughout the manuscript that experiments were performed primarily in female mice and have added a rationale for this choice in the Methods. Briefly, we focused on females to align with the higher prevalence of affective disorders in females and to maintain consistency across experiments. We now explicitly acknowledge this as a limitation in the Discussion and note that future studies will be needed to determine whether these findings generalize to male animals.

      (2) Mice lacking "center-ON" neurons were excluded from analysis, yet the manuscript draws broad conclusions about the encoding of emotional states by mPFC pathways. It is critical to justify this exclusion and discuss how it may limit the generalizability of the findings. The inclusion of data or contextualization for animals without center-ON neurons would strengthen the interpretation.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. Mice lacking identifiable center-ON neurons were excluded from analyses that specifically relied on this functional classification, as inclusion of such datasets would preclude meaningful comparison of this neuronal population. We have now clarified this criterion in the Methods and Results. Importantly, this exclusion does not affect analyses performed at the population level or those not dependent on center-ON classification. We now explicitly discuss this limitation and note that variability in the presence of center-ON neurons may reflect biological heterogeneity across animals.

      (3) The manuscript lacks baseline activity comparisons for mPFC→BLA and mPFC→NAc pathways across subjects. Providing baseline data would contextualize the observed activity changes during behavior testing and help rule out inter-individual variability as a confounding factor.

      We have added baseline comparisons of mPFC→BLA and mPFC→NAc activity across subjects to control for inter-individual variability and better contextualize behavior-related changes.

      (4) Extensive behavioral testing across multiple paradigms may introduce stress and fatigue in the animals, which could confound the induction of emotional states. The authors should describe the measures taken to minimize these effects (e.g., recovery periods, randomized testing order) and discuss their potential impact on the results.

      We now provide detailed descriptions of experimental design, including habituation, randomized testing order, and recovery periods between assays. We also discuss potential cumulative stress effects as a limitation.

      (5) Grooming is described as a "non-anxiety" behavior, which conflicts with its established role as a stress-relieving behavior that may indicate anxiety. This discrepancy requires clarification, as the distinction is central to the conclusions about the mPFC→BLA pathway's role in differentiating anxiety-related and non-anxiety behaviors.

      We thank the reviewer for this important clarification. We agree that grooming can be associated with both stress-related and self-soothing behaviors. In the revised manuscript, we have clarified that grooming is not strictly a “non-anxiety” behavior but instead represents a distinct behavioral state that may reflect stress regulation or internal state transitions. We have revised the text accordingly to avoid oversimplification and to better align with the literature.

      (6) While the study highlights pathway-specific neural activity, it lacks a cohesive integration of these findings with the behavioral data. Quantifying the overlap or decorrelation of neuronal activity patterns across tasks would solidify claims about the specialization of mPFC→NAc and mPFC→BLA pathways. Likewise, the discussion should be expanded to place these findings in light of prior studies that have probed the roles of these pathways in social/emotion/valence-related behaviors.

      We agree that stronger integration between neural and behavioral findings would strengthen the manuscript. In the revised version, we have added quantitative analyses examining the similarity and divergence of activity patterns across behavioral contexts (e.g., cross-context comparisons and correlation-based analyses). We have also expanded the Discussion to better integrate our findings with prior studies on mPFC→NAc and mPFC→BLA pathways in reward, aversion, and social behavior, thereby providing a more cohesive interpretation of pathway-specific functions.

      Minor Weaknesses:

      (1) The manuscript does not explicitly state whether the same mice were used across all behavioral assays. This information is critical for evaluating the validity of group comparisons. Additionally, more detail on sample sizes per assay would improve the manuscript's transparency.

      (2) In Figure 2G, the difference between BLA and NAc activity during exploratory behaviors (sniffing) is difficult to discern. Adjusting the scale or reformatting the figure would better illustrate the findings.

      (3) While the characteristics of the first social stimulus (M1) are specified, there is no information about the second social stimulus (M2). This omission makes it difficult to fully interpret the findings from the three-chamber test.

      (4) The methods section lacks detailed information about statistical approaches and animal selection criteria. Explicitly outlining these procedures would improve reproducibility and clarity.

      We have addressed all these minor concerns, including:

      - Clarifying whether the same mice were used across assays

      - Reporting sample sizes for each experiment

      - Improving figure clarity (e.g., scaling, labeling, scatter points)

      - Providing details for social stimuli (M1 vs. M2)

      - Expanding statistical methods and animal selection criteria

      Summary

      In summary, we have made substantial revisions to:

      - Improve conceptual precision (behavior vs. emotional state)

      - Increase methodological transparency and statistical rigor

      - Strengthen physiological validation

      - Clarify experimental design and limitations

      - Enhance integration with existing literature

      We believe these revisions significantly improve the clarity, rigor, and interpretability of the manuscript, and we are grateful for the reviewers’ guidance in strengthening this work.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      The study by Lotonin et al. investigates correlates of protection against African swine fever virus (ASFV) infection. The study is based on a comprehensive work, including the measurement of immune parameters using complementary methodologies. An important aspect of the work is the temporal analysis of the immune events, allowing for the capture of the dynamics of the immune responses induced after infection. Also, the work compares responses induced in farm and SPF pigs, showing the latter an enhanced capacity to induce a protective immunity. Overall, the results obtained are interesting and relevant for the field. The findings described in the study further validate work from previous studies (critical role of virus-specific T cell responses) and provide new evidence on the importance of a balanced innate immune response during the immunization process. This information increases our knowledge on basic ASF immunology, one of the important gaps in ASF research that needs to be addressed for a more rational design of effective vaccines. Further studies will be required to corroborate that the results obtained based on the immunization of pigs by a not completely attenuated virus strain are also valid in other models, such as immunization using live attenuated vaccines.

      While overall the conclusions of the work are well supported by the results, I consider that the following issues should be addressed to improve the interpretation of the results:

      We thank Reviewer #1 for their thoughtful and constructive feedback, which significantly contributed to improving the clarity and quality of our manuscript. Below, we respond to each of the reviewer’s comments and describe the revisions that were incorporated.

      (1) An important issue in the study is the characterization of the infection outcome observed upon Estonia 2014 inoculation. Infected pigs show a long period of viremia, which is not linked to clinical signs. Indeed, animals are recovered by 20 days post-infection (dpi), but virus levels in blood remain high until 141 dpi. This is uncommon for ASF acute infections and rather indicates a potential induction of a chronic infection. Have the authors analysed this possibility deeply? Are there lesions indicative of chronic ASF in infected pigs at 17 dpi (when they have sacrificed some animals) or, more importantly, at later time points? Does the virus persist in some tissues at late time points, once clinical signs are not observed? Has all this been tested in previous studies?

      Tissue samples were tested for viral loads only at 17 dpi during the immunization phase, and long-term persistence of the virus in tissues has not been assessed in our previous studies. At 17 dpi, lesions were most prominently observed in the lymph nodes of both farm and SPF pigs. In a previous study using the Estonia 2014 strain (doi: 10.1371/journal.ppat.1010522), organs were analyzed at 28 dpi, and no pathological signs were detected. This finding calls into question the likelihood of chronic infection being induced by this strain.

      (2) Virus loads post-Estonia infection significantly differ from whole blood and serum (Figure 1C), while they are very similar in the same samples post-challenge. Have the authors validated these results using methods to quantify infectious particles, such as Hemadsorption or Immunoperoxidase assays? This is important, since it would determine the duration of virus replication post-Estonia inoculation, which is a very relevant parameter of the model.

      We did not perform virus titration but instead used qPCR as a sensitive and standardized method to assess viral genome loads. Although qPCR does not distinguish between infectious and non-infectious virus, it provides a reliable proxy for relative viral replication and clearance dynamics in this model. Unfortunately, no sample material remains from this experiment, but we agree that subsequent studies employing infectious virus quantification would be valuable for further refining our understanding of viral persistence and replication following Estonia 2014 infection.

      (3) Related to the previous points, do the authors consider it expected that the induction of immunosuppressive mechanisms during such a prolonged virus persistence, as described in humans and mouse models? Have the authors analysed the presence of immunosuppressive mechanisms during the virus persistence phase (IL10, myeloid-derived suppressor cells)? Have the authors used T cell exhausting markers to immunophenotype ASFV Estonia-induced T cells?

      We agree with the reviewer that the lack of long-term protection can be linked to immunosuppressive mechanisms, as demonstrated for genotype I strains (doi: 10.1128/JVI.00350-20). The proposed markers were not analyzed in this study but represent important targets for future investigation. We addressed this point in the discussion.

      (4) A broader analysis of inflammatory mediators during the persistence phase would also be very informative. Is the presence of high VLs at late time points linked to a systemic inflammatory response? For instance, levels of IFNa are still higher at 11 dpi than at baseline, but they are not analysed at later time points.

      While IFN-α levels remain elevated at 11 dpi, this response is typically transient in ASFV infection and likely not linked to persistent viremia. We agree that analyzing additional inflammatory markers at later time points would be valuable, and future studies should be designed to further understand viral persistence.

      (5) The authors observed a correlation between IL1b in serum before challenge and protection. The authors also nicely discuss the potential role of this cytokine in promoting memory CD4 T cell functionality, as demonstrated in mice previously. However, the cells producing IL1b before ASFV challenge are not identified. Might it be linked to virus persistence in some organs? This important issue should be discussed in the manuscript.

      We agree that identifying the cellular source of IL-1β prior to challenge is important, and this should be addressed in subsequent studies. We included a discussion on the potential link between elevated IL-1β levels and virus persistence in certain organs.

      (6) The lack of non-immunized controls during the challenge makes the interpretation of the results difficult. Has this challenge dose been previously tested in pigs of the age to demonstrate its 100% lethality? Can the low percentage of protected farm pigs be due to a modulation of memory T and B cell development by the persistence of the virus, or might it be related to the duration of the immunity, which in this model is tested at a very late time point? Related to this, how has the challenge day been selected? Have the authors analysed ASFV Estonia-induced immune responses over time to select it?

      In our previous study, intramuscular infection with ~3–6 × 10<sup>2</sup> TCID<sub>50</sub>/mL led to 100% lethality (doi: 10.1371/journal.ppat.1010522), which is notably lower than the dose used in the present study, although the route here was oronasal. The modulation of memory responses could be more thoroughly assessed in future studies using exhaustion markers. The challenge time point was selected based on the clearance of the virus from blood and serum. We agree that the lack of protection in some animals is puzzling and warrants further investigation, particularly to assess the role of immune duration, potential T cell exhaustion caused by viral persistence, or other immunological factors that may influence protection. Based on our experience, vaccine virus persistence alone does not sufficiently explain the lack-of-protection phenomenon. We incorporated these important aspects into the revised discussion.

      (7) Also, non-immunized controls at 0 dpc would help in the interpretation of the results from Figure 2C. Do the authors consider that the pig's age might influence the immune status (cytokine levels) at the time of challenge and thus the infection outcome?

      We support the view that including non-immunized controls at 0 dpc would strengthen the interpretation of cytokine dynamics and will consider this in future experimental designs. Regarding age, while all animals were within a similar age range at the time of challenge, we acknowledge that age-related differences in immune status could influence baseline cytokine levels and infection outcomes, and this is an important factor to consider.

      (8) Besides anti-CD2v antibodies, anti-C-type lectin antibodies can also inhibit hemadsorption (DOI: 10.1099/jgv.0.000024). Please correct the corresponding text in the results and discussion sections related to humoral responses as correlates of protection. Also, a more extended discussion on the controversial role of neutralizing antibodies (which have not been analysed in this study), or other functional mechanisms such as ADCC against ASFV would improve the discussion.

      The relevant text in the Results and Discussion sections was revised accordingly, and the discussion was extended to more thoroughly address the roles of antibodies.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In the current study, the authors attempt to identify correlates of protection for improved outcomes following re-challenge with ASFV. An advantage is the study design, which compares the responses to a vaccine-like mild challenge and during a virulent challenge months later. It is a fairly thorough description of the immune status of animals in terms of T cell responses, antibody responses, cytokines, and transcriptional responses, and the methods appear largely standard. The comparison between SPF and farm animals is interesting and probably useful for the field in that it suggests that SPF conditions might not fully recapitulate immune protection in the real world. I thought some of the conclusions were over-stated, and there are several locations where the data could be presented more clearly.

      Strengths:

      The study is fairly comprehensive in the depth of immune read-outs interrogated. The potential pathways are systematically explored. Comparison of farm animals and SPF animals gives insights into how baseline immune function can differ based on hygiene, which would also likely inform interpretation of vaccination studies going forward.

      Weaknesses:

      Some of the conclusions are over-interpreted and should be more robustly shown or toned down. There are also some issues with data presentation that need to be resolved and data that aren't provided that should be, like flow cytometry plots.

      We appreciate the feedback from the Reviewer #2 and acknowledge the concerns raised regarding data presentation. In the revised manuscript, we clarified our conclusions where needed and ensured that interpretations were better aligned with the data shown.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) In the Introduction, more details on the experimental model would be appreciated. A short summary of findings obtained with this model in previous works from the authors would help to better understand the context of the study.

      Basic information on the model was added in the Introduction section of the revised manuscript.

      (2) In Figure 1, the addition of more time points on the x-axes would help the interpretation of the figures.

      We agree and have added extra time points to the x-axes.

      (3) To better understand the results in Figure 2A, a figure showing cytokine levels post-Estonia infection of only challenged pigs would help, indicating protected and non-protected animals as in Figure 2C. This figure would be better linked to the corresponding dot plot (Figure 2B).

      Our statistical analyses in Figure 2A are based on using both challenged and non-challenged pigs to assess differences between SPF and farm pigs. We prefer not to remove the non-challenged pigs in order to avoid losing statistical power. Moreover, even when non-challenged and challenged pigs are displayed in the plots, upregulation of IFN-α and IL-8 can be visualized and remains consistent with the positive and negative correlates of protection shown in Figure 2C.

      (4) Dark red colour associated with SPF non-protected is difficult to differentiate from light red in some figures.

      We thank the reviewer for this remark. To preserve the color scheme across the paper, we changed the circle data points to squares for the non-protected SPF pig in the most crowded figures: Figures 1–3 and Supplementary Figures 2 and 8.

      (5) In Supplementary figures 12-16, grouping of the animal numbers (SPF vs farm) would facilitate the interpretation of the results.

      Information on the animal numbers for each group (SPF vs. farm) has been added to the figure captions.

      (6) Are the results shown in Figure 8 based on absolute scores as mentioned? Results from 0 dpc are not shown. Is that correct?

      That is correct. BTM expression values are absolute and could not be normalized, as RNA was not isolated either immediately before the challenge or on day 0 post-challenge. This information is now clarified in the figure captions.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) The authors use the words "predicted" and "predicts" although they haven't used any methods to show that this is true, such as a multivariate analysis. I don't think correlation coefficients are sufficient to indicate prediction. This needs to be fixed.

      We agree with this and have made changes in the text to avoid this impression.

      (2) "Lower baseline immune activation was linked to increased protective immunity." Presumably, the authors mean prior to challenge, not prior to "vaccination"?

      In this sentence written in the Abstract, we refer to baseline immune activation in the steady state, i.e., prior to any infection, as demonstrated in a previous study by Radulovic et al. (2022). The sentence was adapted accordingly. This concept is further explored in the Discussion section.

      (3) The abstract mentioned the comparison between farm and SPF pigs, but didn't provide any context for those findings. It could be added here.

      In the new version, we have added information on this model in the Introduction section.

      (4) Figure legends need N to be indicated. For example, the viral load figures don't appear to be representative of all 9 or 5 animals. Is there a reason why not all were challenged, and how were those 5 challenged selected?

      Numbers of animals in each group were added to the figure captions. We have also provided details regarding the animals sacrificed at different time points of the experiment in the ‘Animal experiment’ section of the Methods.

      (5) 1A doesn't have a legend to indicate whether dark or light color indicates sampling.

      Fair point. We have added the information to the figure.

      (6) For Figure 3C, it's not clear how the correlation is presented. The legend indicates in writing that the color indicates the outcome it correlates with, but the legend suggests that it is r.

      The method of presenting correlation data is consistent across all figures, including Figure 3C. The color reflects the direction and strength of the correlation, corresponding to the r coefficient obtained from correlating immunological parameters with clinical scores. We have clarified this description in the figure caption to improve readability.

      (7) For some of the correlation data in 2D and 3C, it would be nice to provide the plots in the supplemental. Also, are there enough data points for a robust interpretation of correlation curves?

      We agree that providing the plots will improve clarity and have included them in the supplementary material. While we acknowledge that the number of data points is modest, we believe it is sufficient to support a robust interpretation of the correlation curves. Corresponding p-value cutoffs are noted in the figure captions.

      (8) The figure 2C method of indicating significance is confusing. There must be a clearer way to present this figure.

      Analyzing statistical significance for the dataset shown in Figure 2C is challenging due to the small number of animals. We carefully considered alternative ways of presenting statistical significance, however, given the limited group sizes, we believe that the current approach provides the most transparent and informative representation of the data.

      For clarity, we divided the animals into SPF and farm groups, as well as into protected (4 SPF, 2 farm pigs) and non-protected (1 SPF, 3 farm pigs) categories, and performed both group-based (unpaired t-test) and time-based (mixed-effects analysis) comparisons. All significant differences were added to the plots so that readers could directly visualize the observed trends and compare them with the correlation analysis presented in Figure 2D.

      (9) Please note that "viremia" means the presence of a virus specifically in the blood. Other descriptions of viral load should be used if this was not measured.

      We have clarified this in the text. When referring to organs, we use the term “viral loads.”

      (10) The way of putting a square around boxes that are significant can be misleading when a box is surrounded by other significant comparisons. Like for Figure 6B - probably all of these are really significant, but I can't tell for sure.

      Good point. We changed rectangles to circles for better readability of the figures.

      (11) There is a potential argument that these correlates of protection might only be valid for this specific vaccine. It should be noted that comparisons of multiple vaccines would be needed before assuming the correlates are broadly relevant.

      We agree with this statement and address it in the Discussion section.

      (12) For the circled pathways in Figure 9, it is not clear from the diagram if there is a directionality to the involvement of those pathways. Modulated or induced?

      When discussing pathways identified by transcriptome analysis, we are always referring to their induction, as this is based on the normalized enrichment score (NES). We have now specified this in the figure caption.

      (13) The authors speculate about NK cells, but this is based on transcriptional pathways identified and the literature. Is there any indication from the flow cytometry data whether activated NK cells versus NKT cells are associated with protection? Also, the memory phenotype of those cells?

      Regarding NK cells, the BTM analysis was corroborated by the flow cytometry data shown in Supplementary Figure 8. NK cells were defined as CD3<sup>-</sup>CD8α<sup>+</sup>. Specific markers to distinguish NKT cells or to assess memory phenotypes were not included in our panel.

      (14) In the discussion, "Our study demonstrates that T cell activation represents a robust correlate of protection against ASFV" doesn't indicate whether they mean after vaccination or after challenge. Re-using the same time points throughout the manuscript compounds this confusion.

      In this case, we mean that T cell activation upon immunization/vaccination and challenge correlates with protection. This information has been added to the sentence. Although some time points overlap between the immunization and challenge phases, we consistently use “dpi” and “dpc” to clearly distinguish them.

      (15) Flow cytometry gating strategies should be provided in the supplemental, particularly since this species is less frequently studied using flow cytometry; it would be helpful to understand gating and expression levels of key markers.

      We have provided the gating strategy in Supplementary Figure 7, which is also referenced in the “Flow cytometry and hematology analysis” section of the Methods.

      (16) Some of the discussion is a bit long and repetitive - e.g. the parts on antibodies and the last paragraph with multiple other parts of the discussion and manuscript.

      While we agree that some sections are extensive, we think that this level of detail is necessary to integrate the different datasets and to place our findings in the context of previous literature.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This manuscript investigates how herbivorous insects, specifically whiteflies and planthoppers, utilize salivary effectors to overcome plant immunity by targeting the RLP4 receptor.

      Thank you for your comments.

      Strengths:

      The authors present a strong case for the independent evolution of these effectors and provide compelling evidence for their functional roles.

      Thank you for your help in improving our manuscript

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors tested an interesting hypothesis that white flies and planthoppers independently evolved salivary proteins to dampen plant immunity by targeting a receptor-like protein. Unlike previously reported receptor-like proteins with large ligand-binding domains, the NtRLP4 here has a malectin LRR domain. Interestingly, it also associates with the adaptor SOBIR1. While the function of this protein remains to be further explored, the authors provide strong evidence showing it's the target of salivary proteins as the insects' survival strategy.

      Thank you for your comments.

      Major points:

      The authors mixed the concepts of LRR-RLPs with malectin LRR-RLPs. These are two different type of receptors. While LRR-RLPs are well studied, little is known about malectin LRR-RLPs. The authors should not simply apply the mode of function of LRR-RLPs to RLP4 which is a malectin LRR-RLP. In addition, LRR-RLPs that function as ligand-binding receptors typically possess >20 LRRs, whereas RLP4 in this work has a rather small ectodomain. It remains unclear whether it will function as a PRR. I can't agree with the author's logic of testing uninfested plants for proving a PRR's function. The function of a pattern recognition receptor depends on perceiving the corresponding ligand. As shown by the data provided, RLP4-OE plants have altered transcriptional profile indicating activated defense, suggesting it's unlikely a PRR. An alternative explanation is needed. More work on BAK1 will also help to clarify the ideas proposed by the authors.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for the insightful and constructive comments, which have helped us critically re-evaluate our interpretation of RLP4 function. In the revised manuscript, we have addressed this important point by adding a detailed discussion of an alternative explanation for RLP4’s role in plant defense. Specifically, we now explicitly distinguish between classical LRR-RLPs and malectin-domain-containing RLPs, and we acknowledge that RLP4 may not function as a canonical PRR. We also discuss the structural features of RLP4, including its malectin-like domain and relatively small LRR region, and the observation that NtRLP4 overexpression lines exhibit altered transcriptional profiles even in the absence of insect infestation. Based on these lines of evidence, we propose that RLP4 may instead act as a regulatory component within plant immune signaling networks, modulating defense outputs rather than functioning as a direct ligand receptor. The revised discussion now reads as follows: “Together, this study reveals that suppressing PRR-mediated plant immunity may be a conserved strategy employed by herbivorous insects for successful feeding. We demonstrate that whiteflies and planthoppers have independently evolved salivary effectors that facilitate the ubiquitin-dependent degradation of defensive RLP4 in host plants, thereby dampen RLP4-mediated plant immunity (Fig. 6). Nevertheless, the precise mechanism by which RLP4 contributes to plant defense warrants further consideration. While it may function as a canonical PRR that perceives insect-derived molecular patterns, several lines of evidence point to an alternative interpretation. Structurally, RLP4 differs from classical LRR-RLP: it contains a malectin-like domain and a relatively small LRR domain, contrasting with typical LRR-RLPs that often possess large LRRs dedicated to ligand binding. Functionally, NtRLP4 overexpression lines exhibit significantly altered transcriptional profiles and dysregulated SA/JA pathways even in the absence of insect infestation, a phenotype inconsistent with canonical PRRs, which typically remain quiescent until ligand perception. These findings point to an alternative explanation: rather than functioning as a classical PRR that recognizes insect-derived molecules, RLP4 may act as a regulatory component within plant immune signaling networks. Elucidating the precise mechanism of RLP4 in conferring plant defense against herbivorous insects will therefore be an important focus of future research” in Line 392-407.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this study, Wang et al., investigate how herbivorous insects overcome plant receptor-mediated immunity by targeting plant receptor-like proteins. The authors identify two independently evolved salivary effectors, BtRDP in whiteflies and NlSP694 in brown planthoppers, that promote the degradation of plant RLP4 through the ubiquitin-dependent proteasome pathway. NtRLP4 from tobacco and OsRLP4 from rice are shown to confer resistance against herbivores by activating defense signaling, while BtRDP and NlSP694 suppress these defenses by destabilizing RLP4 proteins.

      Thank you for your comments.

      Strengths:

      This work highlights a convergent evolutionary strategy in distinct insect lineages and advances our understanding of insect-plant coevolution at the molecular level.

      Two minor comments:

      In line 140, yeast two-hybrid (Y2H) was used to screen for interacting proteins in plants. However, it is generally difficult to identify membrane receptors using Y2H. Please provide more methodological details to justify this approach, or alternatively, include a discussion explaining this.

      Thank you for pointing this out. It is true that Y2H is generally difficult to identify membrane receptors. To address this limitation, we used truncated versions of RLP4s lacking the signal peptide and transmembrane domains in point-to-point Y2H assays. In addition, the interactions between BtRDP and RLP4s were further validated by Co-IP and BiFC experiments. In the revised manuscript, we have clarified this methodological detail as follows: “Given that Y2H is generally difficult to identify membrane receptors, the truncated versions of NtRLP4/SlRLP4/OsRLP4 lacking the signal peptide and transmembrane domains were used” in Linr 636-638.

      In Figure S12C, the interaction between the two proteins appears to be present in the nucleus as well. Please provide a possible explanation for this observation.

      Thank you for pointing this out. During revision, we further examined the subcellular localization of NtRLP4 and found that NtRLP4-GFP could also be detected in the nucleus when expressed alone (Fig. S18), suggesting that NtRLP4 may have additional functions beyond serving as a cell surface pattern recognition receptor. In the revised manuscript, we discussed that NtRLP4 might play other roles in addition to PRRs in the discussion section as follow: “Together, this study reveals that suppressing PRR-mediated plant immunity may be a conserved strategy employed by herbivorous insects for successful feeding. We demonstrate that whiteflies and planthoppers have independently evolved salivary effectors that facilitate the ubiquitin-dependent degradation of defensive RLP4 in host plants, thereby dampen RLP4-mediated plant immunity (Fig. 6). Nevertheless, the precise mechanism by which RLP4 contributes to plant defense warrants further consideration. While it may function as a canonical PRR that perceives insect-derived molecular patterns, several lines of evidence point to an alternative interpretation. Structurally, RLP4 differs from classical LRR-RLP: it contains a malectin-like domain and a relatively small LRR domain, contrasting with typical LRR-RLPs that often possess large LRRs dedicated to ligand binding. Functionally, NtRLP4 overexpression lines exhibit significantly altered transcriptional profiles and dysregulated SA/JA pathways even in the absence of insect infestation, a phenotype inconsistent with canonical PRRs, which typically remain quiescent until ligand perception. These findings point to an alternative explanation: rather than functioning as a classical PRR that recognizes insect-derived molecules, RLP4 may act as a regulatory component within plant immune signaling networks. Elucidating the precise mechanism of RLP4 in conferring plant defense against herbivorous insects will therefore be an important focus of future research” in Line 392-407.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The authors have addressed all my concerns.

      Thank you for your help in improving our manuscript

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      This work is quite interesting. It's not necessary to prove RLP4 as a PRR to show the merit of this discovery. The current logic is forced and thus the conclusion not convincing. Finding an alternative explanation will be more helpful.

      Thank you for your valuable suggestions. In the revised version, we discussed the alternative explanation as follow: “Together, this study reveals that suppressing PRR-mediated plant immunity may be a conserved strategy employed by herbivorous insects for successful feeding. We demonstrate that whiteflies and planthoppers have independently evolved salivary effectors that facilitate the ubiquitin-dependent degradation of defensive RLP4 in host plants, thereby dampen RLP4-mediated plant immunity (Fig. 6). Nevertheless, the precise mechanism by which RLP4 contributes to plant defense warrants further consideration. While it may function as a canonical PRR that perceives insect-derived molecular patterns, several lines of evidence point to an alternative interpretation. Structurally, RLP4 differs from classical LRR-RLP: it contains a malectin-like domain and a relatively small LRR domain, contrasting with typical LRR-RLPs that often possess large LRRs dedicated to ligand binding. Functionally, NtRLP4 overexpression lines exhibit significantly altered transcriptional profiles and dysregulated SA/JA pathways even in the absence of insect infestation, a phenotype inconsistent with canonical PRRs, which typically remain quiescent until ligand perception. These findings point to an alternative explanation: rather than functioning as a classical PRR that recognizes insect-derived molecules, RLP4 may act as a regulatory component within plant immune signaling networks. Elucidating the precise mechanism of RLP4 in conferring plant defense against herbivorous insects will therefore be an important focus of future research” in Line 392-407.

      Inappropriate descriptions still exist at multiple places across the manuscript and damages the merit of this work. I highly recommend the authors to consult an expert in plant PRR research for proof reading. The language editing service the authors used only provided limited help in this case. Here are a few examples:

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for the critical and constructive comments. We agree that precise language is essential for conveying scientific findings. In the revised version, we have refined the text with the help of colleagues who have expertise in plant immunity, aiming to ensure the descriptions are as precise and professional as possible.

      Line 16: Using "depend" ignores the fact that many biotic invaders are recognized by NLRs. The authors can simply use the word "use" or "utilize".

      Thank you for your suggestion. We corrected it in the revised version.

      Line 20:"target defensive RLP4, therefor minimizing the plant immunity" is a strange saying. "dampen RLP4-mediated plant immunity"will be better.

      Thank you for your suggestion. We corrected it in the revised version.

      Line 49: as far as I know, only LRR-RLPs use SOBIR1 as adaptor. The authors should introduce this specific point. The mode of action of other type of LRR-RLPs are less clear.

      Thank you for your suggestion. In the revised version, we re-introduce this as follow: “As RLPs lack the intracellular signaling domains, they are anticipated to associate with adaptor kinases to form the bimolecular receptor kinases. For example, suppressor of BAK1-interacting receptor-like kinase 1 (SOBIR1) is reported to act as a common adaptor for most, if not all, of the leucine-rich repeat RLP (LRR-RLP)” in Line 48-52, “The receptor-like kinase SOBIR1, which contained a kinase domain, has been widely reported to be required for the function of LRR-RLPs in the innate immunity. However, whether SOBIR1 interacted with malectin-LRR RLP remains largely unknown” in Line 170-173.

      Line 67: There are quite a few publications showing that insect salivary proteins dampen plant immunity.

      Sorry for the inaccurate description. We agree that an accumulated literature describes the suppression of plant immunity by insect salivary proteins. However, the specific molecular mechanism by which these proteins target plant PRRs is still poorly understood. In the revised version, we specified that “it remains largely unknown how insects cope with plant PRRs” in Line 68-69.

      Line 149: I don't understand what "point-to-point Y2H" is.

      Thank you for your comment. We agree that the term "pairwise Y2H" is more commonly used in the literature than "point-to-point Y2H." To avoid any confusion and to align with standard terminology, we have replaced "point-to-point Y2H" with "pairwise Y2H" throughout the revised manuscript.

      Line 179: Replace with "NtRLP4 and NtSOBIR1 confers resistance to B. tabaci". You don't say a protein is resistant to a insect infestation. The same applies for Line 209-210.

      Thank you for your suggestion. We corrected it in the revised version.

      Minor points:

      Line 91-92: Lengthy text for simple results.

      Line 98: "which was significantly different from the actin or ribosomal 18S rRNA" can be deleted. It's self-evident that actin and 18S rRNA are controls. The same applies to Line 101.

      Line 130: unnecessary sentence, delete.

      The use of verb forms needs further correction.

      Thank you for your valuable suggestion. In the revised manuscript, we have revised the text accordingly. We truly appreciate your help in improving our manuscript.

    1. Author response:

      eLife Assessment

      This study uses a Bayesian framework to characterize latent brain state dynamics associated with memory encoding and performance in children, as measured with functional magnetic resonance imaging. The novelty of the approach offers valuable insights into memory-related brain activity, but the consideration of developmental changes in memory and brain dynamics, and the evidence to support the proposed mapping between specific states and distinct aspects of memory, are incomplete. This work will be of interest to researchers interested in cognitive neuroscience and the development of memory.

      We are grateful to the editor and reviewers for their positive feedback and constructive evaluation. Their comments have identified important areas where the manuscript can be strengthened. Below, we outline our planned revisions.

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Zeng et al. characterized the dynamic brain states that emerged during episodic encoding and the reactivation of these states during the offline rest period in children aged 8-13. In the study, participants encoded scene images during fMRI and later performed a memory recognition test. The authors adopted the BSDS approach and identified four states during encoding, including an "active-encoding" state. The occupancy rate of, and the state transition rates towards, this active-encoding state positively predicted memory accuracy across participants. The authors then decoded the brain states during pre- and post-encoding rests with the model trained on the encoding data to examine state reactivation. They found that the state temporal profile and transition structure shifted from encoding to post-encoding rest. They also showed that the mean lifetime and stability (measured with self-transition probability) of the "default-mode" state during post-encoding rest predict memory performance. How brain dynamics during encoding and offline rest support long-term memory remains understudied, particularly in children. Thus, this study addresses an important question in the field. The authors implemented an advanced computational framework to identify latent brain states during encoding and carefully characterized their spatiotemporal features. The study also showed evidence for the behavioral relevance of these states, providing valuable insights into the link between state dynamics and successful encoding and consolidation.

      We thank Reviewer #1 for the positive feedback on our study. And we would like to thank you for the reviewer's constructive feedback. We plan to incorporate detailed methodological justifications and a thorough limitation analysis. We also plan to enhance the overall logical coherence of the manuscript, ensuring a more robust and scientifically sound presentation.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) If applicable, please provide information on the decoding performance of states during pre- and post-encoding rests. The Methods noted that the authors applied a threshold of 0.1 z-scored likelihood, and based on Figure S2, it seems like most TRs were assigned a reinstated state during post-encoding rest. It would be useful to know, for the decodable TRs, how strong the evidence was in favor of one state over others. Further, was decoding performance better during post- vs. pre- encoding rest? This is critical for establishing that these states were indeed "reinstated" during rest. The authors showed individual-specific correlations between encoding and post-encoding state distribution, which is an important validation of the method, but this result alone is not sufficient to suggest that the states during encoding were the ones that occurred during rest. The authors found that the state dynamics vary substantially between encoding and rest, and it would be helpful to clarify whether these differences might be related to decoding performance. I am also curious whether, if the authors apply the BSDS approach to independently identify brain states during rest periods (instead of using the trained model from encoding), they find similar states during rest as those that emerged during encoding?

      We plan three additional analyses to strengthen the evidence for state reinstatement during rest: First, we will report quantitative decoding confidence metrics for each decoded time point, including the log-likelihood between the winning state and the next-best state. We will compare these distributions between pre- and post-encoding rest to test whether decoding quality differs between conditions, as the reviewer suggests. Second, we will provide a more detailed characterization of the decoding process, including the proportion of TRs that survive the log-likelihood threshold of 0.1 during pre- vs. post-encoding rest and whether this proportion relates to memory performance. Third, we will train an independent BSDS model directly on the rest data (rather than using the encoding-trained model) and assess the degree of correspondence between the independently discovered rest states and the encoding states in terms of amplitude profiles and covariance structures. Convergence between the two approaches would provide strong validation that the encoding-defined states genuinely re-emerge at rest. Together with our evidence from our previous analyses, these additional analyses will strengthen our claims.

      (2) During post-encoding rest, the intermediate activation state (S1) became the dominant state. Overall, the paper did not focus too much on this state. For example, when examining the relationship between state transitions and memory performance, the authors also did not include this state as a part of the analyses presented in the paper (lines 203-211). Could the author report more information about this state and/or discuss how this state might be relevant to memory formation and consolidation?

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. During encoding, S1 had the lowest occupancy (~10%) and showed no significant relationship with memory performance, which led us to interpret it as a non-essential transient configuration. In the revision, we will provide a more thorough characterization of S1, and conduct correlation analyses to probe whether its dynamic properties during post-encoding rest correlate with individual memory performance.

      (3) Two outcome measures from the BSDS model were the occupancy rate and the mean lifetime. The authors found a significant association with behavior and occupancy rate in some analyses, and mean lifetime in others. The paper would benefit from a stronger theoretical framing explaining how and why these two different measures provide distinct information about the brain dynamics, which will help clarify the interpretation of results when association with behavior was specific to one measure.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. Occupancy rate and mean lifetime, while related, capture fundamentally different aspects of brain state dynamics. Occupancy rate reflects the total proportion of time the brain spends in a given state, capturing the overall prevalence of that configuration across the scanning session. Mean lifetime, by contrast, measures the average uninterrupted duration of each state visit, indexing the temporal stability or persistence of a given network configuration once it is entered. Critically, two states could have identical occupancy rates but very different mean lifetimes, a state visited frequently but briefly versus one visited rarely but sustained, implying distinct underlying neural dynamics. In the context of memory, high occupancy of the active-encoding state may reflect repeated engagement of encoding-optimal circuits, while long mean lifetime of the default-mode state during rest may reflect sustained consolidation-related processing. We will expand the theoretical framework in the revised manuscript to articulate these distinctions and connect them to extant findings suggesting that temporal stability versus frequency of state visits may have dissociable behavioral correlates in working memory and episodic memory (He et al., 2023; Stevner et al., 2019).

      (4) For performance on a memory recognition test, d' is a more common metric in the literature as it isolates the memory signal for the old items from response bias. According to Methods (line 451), the authors have computed a different metric as their primary behavioral measure (hits + correction rejections - misses - false alarms). Please provide a rationale for choosing this measure instead. Have the authors considered computing d' as well and examining brain-behavior relationships using d'?

      Our primary memory recognition metric computed as (hits + correct rejections − misses − false alarms) / total trials, provides an unbiased linear estimate of discrimination ability that is mathematically consistent with d' in directional effects. We selected this measure because it is particularly robust with limited trial counts per condition (Verde et al., 2006; Wickens, 2001). Nonetheless, we agree that reporting d' is important for comparability with the broader literature. In the revision, we will compute d' for each participant and conduct parallel brain–behavior correlation analyses to demonstrate that our findings are robust across both metrics.

      (5) While this study examined brain state dynamics in children, there was no adult sample to compare with. Therefore, it is hard to conclude whether the findings are specific to children (or developing brains). It would be helpful to discuss this point in the paper.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this point. While several studies have documented memory-related replay and reinstatement in adults at both the regional and systems levels(Tambini et al., 2017; Wimmer et al., 2020), few have examined whether analogous state-level reinstatement occurs in children. Our study was motivated by this gap: we sought to test whether children show dynamic brain state reinstatement mechanisms similar to those described in adults. However, we acknowledge that without a direct adult comparison, we cannot determine whether the observed patterns are unique to children or reflect general principles of episodic memory organization. In the revised manuscript, we will: (a) frame the study more carefully as examining whether established state-level consolidation mechanisms also operate during childhood, (b) discuss findings in relation to adult studies, and (c) include exploratory analyses of age-related variability in both memory performance and BSDS dynamics within our sample, while acknowledging that the narrow age range (8–13) and small sample size limit the power of such developmental analyses. We will clearly identify the absence of an adult comparison as a limitation.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      This paper investigates the latent dynamic brain states that emerge during memory encoding and predict later memory performance in children (N = 24, ages: 8 -13 years). A novel computational approach (Bayesian Switching Dynamic Systems, BSDS) discovers latent brain states from fMRI data in an unsupervised and parameter-free manner that is agnostic to external stimuli, resulting in 4 states: an active-encoding state, a default-mode state, an inactive state, and an intermediate state. The key finding is that the percentage of time occupied in the active-encoding state (characterized by greater activity in hippocampal, visual, and frontoparietal regions), as well as greater transitions to this state, predicts memory accuracy. Memory accuracy was also predicted by the mean lifetime and transitions to the default-mode state (characterized by greater activity in medial prefrontal cortex and posterior cingulate cortex) during post-encoding rest. Together, the results provide insights into dynamic interactions between brain regions that may be optimal for encoding novel information and consolidating memories for long-term retention.

      We thank Reviewer #2 for recognizing the novelty and broader utility of our methodology and for noting that the manuscript is well-written and concise.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The study focuses on middle childhood, but there is a lack of engagement in the Introduction or Discussion about what is known about memory development and the brain during this period. Many of the brain regions examined in this study, particularly frontoparietal regions, undergo developmental changes that could influence their involvement in memory encoding and consolidation. The paper would be strengthened by more directly linking the findings to what is already known about episodic memory development and the brain.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. In response, we will substantially expand the Introduction and Discussion to situate our findings within the developmental cognitive neuroscience literature on episodic memory. In particular, we will address the protracted developmental trajectory of frontoparietal regions, the well-documented maturation of hippocampal–cortical connectivity during middle childhood, and how these developmental changes may influence the brain state configurations we observed (He et al., 2023; Ryali et al., 2016). This will provide the necessary developmental context for interpreting our state dynamics results.

      (2) A more thorough overview of the BSDS algorithm is needed, since this is likely a novel method for most readers. Although many of the nitty-gritty details can be referenced in prior work, it was unclear from the main text if the BSDS algorithm discovered latent states based on activation patterns, functional connectivity, or both. Figure 1F is not very informative (and is missing labels).

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. We agree that a more accessible overview of the BSDS algorithm (Lee et al., 2025; Taghia et al., 2018) is needed. In the revision, we will expand the Methods and provide a concise algorithmic overview in the main text that clarifies the following key points: (a) BSDS operates on multivariate time series from the ROIs and infers latent brain states defined jointly by their mean activation patterns (amplitude vectors) and inter-regional covariance matrices (functional connectivity); (b) it employs a hidden Markov model framework with Bayesian inference and automatic relevance determination to identify the number of states without manual specification; and (c) state assignments are made at each TR, yielding a temporal sequence that enables computation of occupancy rates, mean lifetimes, and transition probabilities. We will also revise Figure 1F to include appropriate labels and a clearer schematic of the model's inputs, latent structure, and outputs.

      (3) A further confusion about the BSDS algorithm was whether it necessarily had to work on the rest data. Figure 4A suggests that each TR was assigned one of the four states based on the maximum win from the log-likelihood estimation. Without more details about how this algorithm was applied to the rest data, it is difficult to evaluate the claim on page 14 about the spontaneous emergence of the states at rest.

      The key methodological point is that the BSDS model, once trained on encoding data, can be applied to new (rest) time series via log-likelihood estimation: for each TR during rest, the model computes the log-likelihood of each state given the observed multivariate signal, and the state with the maximum log-likelihood is assigned to that TR. This "decoding" approach tests whether the spatial configurations learned during encoding are present during rest, rather than fitting new states de novo. We applied a threshold to the log-likelihood values to exclude TRs where the evidence for any single state was weak, thus controlling for potential misassignment. We will substantially clarify this process in the revised Methods and main text, and as described in our response to Reviewer #1 point 1, we will also conduct additional analyses to address the concerns raised.

      (4) Although the BSDS algorithm was validated in prior simulations and task-based fMRI using sustained block designs in adults, it is unclear whether it is appropriate for the kind of event-related design used in the current study. Figure 1G shows very rapid state changes, which is quantified in the low mean lifetime of the states (between 1-3 TRs on average) in Figure 4C. On the one hand, it is a strength of the algorithm that it is not necessarily tied to external stimuli. On the other hand, it would be helpful to see simulations validating that rapid transitions between states in fMRI data are meaningful and not due to noise.

      This is an important methodological question. The rapid state changes observed in our event-related design (mean lifetimes of 1–3 TRs) differ from the longer state durations typically observed with block designs(He et al., 2023; Zeng et al., 2024), where sustained cognitive demands stabilize brain configurations. We believe these rapid transitions are consistent with the inherent dynamics of event-related encoding, where each trial involves rapid shifts between sensory processing, memory binding, and attentional engagement. Several considerations support the meaningfulness of these transitions: (a) the identified states have interpretable amplitude profiles consistent with well-established memory-related brain systems; (b) state dynamics show statistically significant, directionally consistent correlations with subsequent memory performance; and (c) the transition structure during encoding is distinct from that observed during rest, indicating sensitivity to task demands. Nonetheless, we acknowledge the concern about noise and will conduct additional analyses in the revision to address the concerns raised.

      (5) The Methods section mentions that participants actively imagined themselves within the encoded scenes and were instructed to memorize the images for a later test during the post-encoding rest scan. This detail needs to be included in the main text and incorporated into the interpretation of the findings, as there are likely mechanistic differences between spontaneous memory replay/reinstatement vs. active rehearsal.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. We will include these experimental details in the main text and incorporate it into the interpretation of our findings in the context of spontaneous memory replay/reinstatement vs. active rehearsal (Liu et al., 2019; Wimmer et al., 2020).

      (6) Information about the general linear model used to discover the 16 ROIs that showed a subsequent memory effect are missing, such as: covariates in the model (motion, etc.), group analysis approach (parametric or nonparametric), whether and how multiple-comparisons correction was performed, if clusters were overlapping at all or distinct, if the total number of clusters was 16 or if this was only a subset of regions that showed the effect.

      We apologize for the missing methodological details. In the revised manuscript, we will provide complete information on the general linear model used to identify the 16 ROIs, including: the event regressors and parametric modulators included in the model, nuisance covariates (motion parameters, white matter and CSF regressors), the group-level analysis approach and statistical thresholding, the method for multiple-comparisons correction, whether the 16 ROIs represent all significant clusters or a subset, and whether any clusters were spatially overlapping. We will also clarify how peak voxels were selected for ROI definition.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      This paper uses a novel method to look at how stable brain states and the transitions between them promote memory formation during encoding and post-encoding rest in children. I think the paper has some weaknesses (detailed below) that mean that the authors fall short of achieving their aims. Although the paper has an interesting methodological approach, the authors need better logic, and are potentially "double dipping" in their results - meaning their logic is circular. I think the method that they are using could be useful to the broader neuroimaging community, although they need to make this argument clearer in the paper.

      We thank Reviewer #3 for recognizing the novelty of our approach and its potential utility for the broader neuroimaging community.

      (1) The authors use children as their study subjects but fail to reconcile why children are used, if the same phenomena are expected to be seen in adults (or only children), and if and how their findings change with age across an age range that ranges from middle childhood into early adolescence. They need to include more consideration for the development of their subject population. The authors should make it clear why and how memory was tested in children and not adults. Are adults and children expected to encode and consolidate in a similar manner to children? Do the findings here also apply to adults? How was the age range of 8-13-year-old children selected? Why didn't the authors look at change with age? Does memory performance change with age? Do the BSDS dynamics change with age in the authors' sample?

      Our study was motivated by the observation that while adult studies have documented memory replay and reinstatement, very little is known about whether these dynamic state-level mechanisms operate during middle childhood, a period characterized by substantial improvements in episodic memory ability and ongoing maturation of frontoparietal and hippocampal–cortical circuits. The age range of 8–13 was defined a priori based on typical developmental classifications of middle childhood through early adolescence, representing a period when episodic memory abilities are developing rapidly.

      In response to the reviewer's specific questions: (a) we will conduct exploratory analyses testing whether memory accuracy, BSDS state dynamics (occupancy, mean lifetime, transitions), and brain–behavior correlations vary as a function of age within our sample; (b) we will clearly discuss whether adults are expected to show similar patterns, drawing on the extant adult literature; and (c) we will acknowledge as a limitation that our sample size (N = 24) and narrow age range provide limited statistical power for detecting continuous age-related changes, and that a dedicated cross-sectional or longitudinal developmental design would be needed to draw firm conclusions about developmental trajectories. Please also see responses to Reviewer #1 point 5 and Reviewer #2 point 1.

      (2) The authors look for brain state dynamics within a preselected set of ROIs that are selected because they display a subsequent memory effect. This is problematic because the state that is most associated with subsequent memory (S3, or State 3) is also the one that shows most activity in these regions (that have already been a priori selected due to displaying a subsequent memory effect). This logic is circular. It would be helpful if they could look at brain state dynamics in a more ROI agnostic whole brain approach so that we can learn something beyond what a subsequent memory analysis tells us. I think the authors are "double dipping" in that they selected regions for further analysis based on a subsequent memory association (remembered > forgotten contrast) and then found states within those regions showing a subsequent memory effect to further analyze for being associated with subsequent memory. Would it be possible instead to do a whole-brain analysis (something a bit more agnostic to findings) using the BSDS framework, and then, from a whole-brain perspective, look for particular brain states associated with subsequent memory? As it stands, it looks like S3 (state 3) has greater overall activation in all brain regions associated with subsequent memory, so it makes sense that this brain state is also most associated with subsequent memory. The BSDS analysis is therefore not adding anything new beyond what the authors find with the simple subsequent memory contrast that they show in Figure 1C. This particularly effects the following findings: (a) active-encoding state occupancy rate correlated positively with memory accuracy, (b) transitions to the active-encoding state were beneficial / Conversely, transitions toward the inactive state (S4) were detrimental, with incoming transitions showing negative correlations with memory accuracy / The active-encoding state serves as a "hub" configuration that facilitates memory formation, while pathways leading to this state enhance performance and transitions away from it impair encoding.

      We appreciate this critique, which raises an important concern about analytical circularity.

      a) Why BSDS adds information beyond the static subsequent memory contrast. The reviewer notes that S3 (the active-encoding state) shows high activation in the same regions selected by the subsequent memory contrast, and therefore questions whether BSDS provides new information. We respectfully argue that BSDS captures dimensions of neural organization that a static contrast cannot. Specifically: (a) the subsequent memory contrast identifies which regions are differentially active for remembered vs. forgotten items, averaged across the entire encoding session, it provides no temporal information about when or for how long these regions are co-active; (b) BSDS reveals the moment-to-moment temporal evolution of brain states, including the duration and stability of each configuration (mean lifetime), which independently predicts behavior; (c) BSDS uniquely captures transition dynamics, the rates and patterns of switching between states, which we show are predictive of memory in ways not derivable from the contrast map (e.g., transitions from S2→S3 positively predict memory, transitions toward S4 negatively predict memory); and (d) BSDS characterizes the full covariance structure among regions within each state, revealing distinct connectivity patterns (e.g., the high clustering coefficient and global efficiency of S3), which are not captured by univariate activation contrasts. Thus, while the ROI selection is informed by the subsequent memory effect, the information BSDS extracts from those regions, temporal dynamics, transition patterns, and multivariate covariance, is orthogonal to the information used for selection.

      b) Additional validation. To directly address the circularity concern empirically, we will conduct additional analysis using ROIs from previous studies (e.g. network templates) / meta-analyses/Neurosynth ROIs (He et al., 2023; Meer et al., 2020; Taghia et al., 2018), without resorting to selection based on the subsequent memory contrast.

      (3) The task used to test memory in children seems strange. Why should children remember arbitrary scenes? How this was chosen for encoding needs to be made clear. There needs to be more description of the memory task and why it was chosen. Why was scene encoding chosen? What does scene encoding have to do with the stated goal of (a) "Understanding how children's brains form lasting memories", (b) "optimizing education" and (c) "identifying learning disabilities"? What was the design of the recognition memory test? How many novel scenes were included in the test, and how were they chosen? How close were the "new" images to previously seen "old" images? Was this varied parametrically (i.e., was the similarity between new and old images assessed and quantified?)

      Scene encoding was chosen for several reasons: (a) scenes are rich, complex stimuli that engage the hippocampal–parahippocampal memory system, eliciting robust subsequent memory effects suitable for BSDS modeling; (b) scene encoding recruits distributed networks spanning visual cortex, MTL, and frontoparietal regions, enabling detection of multi-region brain states; and (c) scene encoding paradigms have been widely used in both adult and developmental studies of episodic memory and replay(Tambini et al., 2017; Tompary et al., 2017), facilitating comparison with prior work.

      Regarding the recognition test: participants viewed 200 images (100 old, 100 new), with novel scenes drawn from the same categories (buildings and natural scenes) but chosen to be perceptually distinct from studied images. Similarity between old and new images was not parametrically manipulated or quantified: we will note this limitation. We will also expand the main text to include full task details and have deleted claims about implications for educational optimization and learning disability identification (see also Reviewer #3 point 7).

      (4) They ultimately found four brain states during encoding. It would be helpful if they could make the logic and foundation for arriving at this number clear.

      The number of brain states is not predetermined by the user but is automatically determined by the BSDS algorithm through Bayesian automatic relevance determination (ARD). The model is initialized with a maximum number of possible states, and during inference, states that contribute minimally to explaining the data are effectively pruned, their associated parameters are driven to near-zero by the ARD prior. In our data, the model converged on four states. This is a key advantage of BSDS over conventional HMM approaches, which require the user to specify the state number a priori. We will clarify this process in the revised Methods and Results, referencing the original BSDS methodology paper (Taghia et al., 2018) for full mathematical details.

      (5) There is already extant work on whether brain states during post-encoding rest predict memory outcomes. This work needs to be cited and referred to. The present manuscript needs to be better situated within prior work. The authors should look at the work by Alexa Tompary and Lila Davachi. They have already addressed many of the questions that the authors seek to answer. The authors should read their papers (and the papers they cite and that cite them) and then situate their work within the prior literature.

      We agree that the manuscript must be better situated within the existing literature on post-encoding rest and memory consolidation. We will revise the Introduction and Discussion to further discuss with the foundational work in adults by Tompary & Davachi (2017, Neuron; 2024, eLife) on consolidation-related hippocampal–mPFC representational overlap, as well as Tambini & Davachi (2013, PNAS; 2019, Trends in Cognitive Sciences) on hippocampal persistence during post-encoding rest and awake reactivation(Tambini et al., 2019; Tambini et al., 2017; Tompary et al., 2017). We will explicitly discuss how our BSDS-based approach to state-level reinstatement complements and extends these earlier findings, which largely focused on region-specific pattern similarity or hippocampal–cortical connectivity, by characterizing reinstatement at the level of dynamic, whole-network configurations.

      (6) The authors should back up the claim that "successful episodic memory formation critically depends on the temporal coordination between these systems. Brain regions must coordinate their activity through dynamic functional interactions, rapidly reconfiguring their activity and connectivity patterns in response to changing cognitive demands and stimulus characteristics." Do they have any specific evidence supporting this claim?

      The claim that episodic memory depends on temporal coordination and dynamic functional interactions is supported by several lines of evidence: (a) within our study, the significant correlations between state transition rates and memory performance directly demonstrate that dynamic inter-state communication predicts memory outcomes; (b) studies showing that hippocampal–prefrontal theta coherence during encoding predicts subsequent memory (e.g., Zielinski et al., 2020)(Zielinski et al., 2020); and (c) recent work demonstrating that rapid reconfiguration of large-scale brain networks supports cognitive functions including working memory (Shine et al., 2018; Braun et al., 2015)(Braun et al., 2015; Shine et al., 2018) and episodic encoding (Phan et al., 2024)(Phan et al., 2024) We will revise this passage to include specific citations and to make clear that our own transition–behavior correlations constitute direct evidence for this claim.

      (7) These claims seem overstated: "this work has broad implications for understanding memory function in children, for developing educational interventions that enhance memory formation, and enabling early identification of children at risk for learning disabilities." Can the authors add citations that would support these claims, or if not, remove them?

      We thank the reviewer for raising this point. We agree that the current framing overstates the practical implications. We have now removed these claims and remark on future studies that are needed here.

      References

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      (2) He, Y., Liang, X., Chen, M., Tian, T., Zeng, Y., Liu, J., . . . Qin, S. (2023). Development of brain-state dynamics involved in working memory. Cerebral Cortex.

      (3) Lee, B., Young, C. B., Cai, W., Yuan, R., Ryman, S., Kim, J., . . . Menon, V. (2025). Dopaminergic modulation and dosage effects on brain state dynamics and working memory component processes in Parkinson’s disease. Nature Communications, 16(1), 2433.

      (4) Liu, Y., Dolan, R. J., Kurth-Nelson, Z., & Behrens, T. E. J. (2019). Human Replay Spontaneously Reorganizes Experience. Cell, 178(3), 640-652.e614.

      (5) Meer, J. N. v. d., Breakspear, M., Chang, L. J., Sonkusare, S., & Cocchi, L. (2020). Movie viewing elicits rich and reliable brain state dynamics. Nature Communications, 11(1), 5004.

      (6) Phan, A. T., Xie, W., Chapeton, J. I., Inati, S. K., & Zaghloul, K. A. (2024). Dynamic patterns of functional connectivity in the human brain underlie individual memory formation. Nature Communications, 15(1), 8969.

      (7) Ryali, S., Supekar, K., Chen, T., Kochalka, J., Cai, W., Nicholas, J., . . . Menon, V. (2016). Temporal Dynamics and Developmental Maturation of Salience, Default and Central-Executive Network Interactions Revealed by Variational Bayes Hidden Markov Modeling. PLoS Comput Biol, 12(12), e1005138.

      (8) Shine, J. M., & Poldrack, R. A. (2018). Principles of dynamic network reconfiguration across diverse brain states. Neuroimage, 180, 396-405.

      (9) Stevner, A. B. A., Vidaurre, D., Cabral, J., Rapuano, K., Nielsen, S. F. V., Tagliazucchi, E., . . . Kringelbach, M. L. (2019). Discovery of key whole-brain transitions and dynamics during human wakefulness and non-REM sleep. Nature Communications, 10(1), 1035.

      (10) Taghia, J., Cai, W., Ryali, S., Kochalka, J., Nicholas, J., Chen, T., & Menon, V. (2018). Uncovering hidden brain state dynamics that regulate performance and decision-making during cognition. Nature Communications, 9(1), 2505.

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    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The study by Lin et al. studies the role of EXOC6A in ciliogenesis and its relationship with the interactor myosin-Va using a range of approaches based on the RPE1 cell line model. They establish its spatio-temporal organization at centrioles, the forming ciliary vesicle and ciliary sheath using ExM, various super-resolution techniques, and EM, including correlative light and electron microscopy. They also perform live imaging analyses and functional studies using RNAi and knockout. They establish a role of EXOC6A together with myosin-Va in Golgi-derived, microtubule- and actin-based vesicle trafficking to and from the ciliary vesicle and sheath membranes. Defects in these functions impair robust ciliary shaft and axoneme formation due to defective transition zone assembly.

      Strengths:

      The study provides very high-quality data that support the conclusions. In particular, the imaging data is compelling. It also integrates all findings in a model that shows how EXOC6A participates in multiple stages of ciliogenesis and how it cooperates with other factors.

      Weaknesses:

      The precise role of EXOC6A remains somewhat unclear. While it is described as a component of the exocyst, the authors do not address its molecular functions and whether it indeed works as part of the exocyst complex during ciliogenesis.

      We sincerely thank Reviewer 1 for the thoughtful evaluation of our manuscript and the constructive comments provided. We are especially grateful for the recognition of the quality and significance of our imaging data and the comprehensive model we propose regarding EXOC6A’s role in ciliogenesis. We did not address the function of other components of the exocyst complex during ciliogenesis. However, in our biochemical analyses, Myosin‑Va specifically co‑immunoprecipitated with EXOC6A but not with other exocyst subunits tested (EXOC5 and EXOC7) (Fig. 4E) indicating a selective interaction between EXOC6A and the Myo‑Va transport machinery.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The molecular mechanisms underlying ciliogenesis are not well understood. Previously, work from the same group (Wu et al., 2018) identified myosin-Va as an important protein in transporting preciliary vesicles to the mother vesicles, allowing for initiation of ciliogenesis. The exocyst complex has previously been implicated in ciliogenesis and protein trafficking to cilia. Here, Lin et al. investigate the role of exocyst complex protein EXOC6A in cilia formation. The authors find that EXOC6A localizes to preciliary vesicles, ciliary vesicles, and the ciliary sheath. EXOC6A colocalizes with Myo-Va in the ciliary vesicle and the ciliary sheath, and both proteins are removed from fully assembled cilia. EXOC6A is not required for Myo-Va localization, but Myo-VA and EHD1 are required for EXOC6A to localize in ciliary vesicles. The authors propose that EXOC6A vesicles continually remodel the cilium: FRAP analysis demonstrates that EXOC6A is a dynamic protein, and live imaging shows that EXOC6A fuses with and buds off from the ciliary membrane. Loss of EXOC6A reduces, but does not eliminate, the number of cilia formed in cells. Any cilia that are still present are structurally abnormal, with either bent morphologies or the absence of some transition zone proteins. Overall, the analyses and imaging are well done, and the conclusions are well supported by the data. The work will be of interest to cell biologists, especially those interested in centrosomes and cilia.

      Strengths:

      The TEM micrographs are of excellent quality. The quality of the imaging overall is very good, especially considering that these are dynamic processes occurring in a small region of the cell. The data analysis is well done and the quantifications are very helpful. The manuscript is well-written and the final figure is especially helpful in understanding the model.

      Weaknesses:

      Additional information about the functional and mechanistic roles of EXOC6A would improve the manuscript greatly.

      We sincerely thank Reviewer 2 for the thoughtful and encouraging evaluation of our work. We are grateful for the recognition of the strengths of our study, including the quality of the TEM micrographs, the rigor of our imaging and data analysis, and the clarity of our manuscript and proposed model.

      We have expanded our analyses in the revised manuscript to better define EXOC6A’s contribution to ciliary function. Specifically, we examined the trafficking of two critical ciliary membrane-associated proteins: GPR161, a G-protein-coupled receptor involved in Sonic hedgehog (Shh) signaling, and BBS9, a core component of the BBSome complex essential for ciliary membrane protein transport. Our new data (Fig. 7C) show that both GPR161 and BBS9 fail to localize to the cilium in EXOC6A knockout cells, in contrast to wild-type controls where their ciliary localization is robust. This new evidence significantly strengthens the understanding of EXOC6A’s role.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Lin et al report on the dynamic localization of EXOC6A and Myo-Va at pre-ciliary vesicles, ciliary vesicles, and ciliary sheath membrane during ciliogenesis using three-dimensional structured illumination microscopy and ultrastructure expansion microscopy. The authors further confirm the interaction of EXOC6A and Myo-Va by co-immunoprecipitation experiments and demonstrated the requirement of EHD1 for the EXOC6A-labeled ciliary vesicles formation. Additional experiments using gene-silencing by siRNA and pharmacological tools identified the involvement of dynein-, microtubule-, and actin in the transport mechanism of EXOC6A-labeled vesicles to the centriole, as they have previously reported for Myo-Va. Notably, loss of EXOC6A severely disrupts ciliogenesis, with the majority of cells becoming arrested at the ciliary vesicle (CV) stage, highlighting the involvement of EXOC6A at later stages of ciliogenesis. As the authors observe dynamic EXOC6A-positive vesicle release and fusion with the ciliary sheath, this suggests a role in membrane and potentially membrane protein delivery to the growing cilium past the ciliary vesicle stage. While CEP290 localization at the forming cilium appears normal, the recruitment of other transition zone components, exemplified by several MKS and NPHP module components, was also impaired in EXOC6A-deficient cells.

      Strengths:

      (1) By applying different microscopy approaches, the study provides deeper insight into the spatial and temporal localization of EXOC6A and Myo-Va during ciliogenesis.

      (2) The combination of complementary siRNA and pharmacological tools targeting different components strengthens the conclusions.

      (3) This study reveals a new function of EXOC6A in delivering membrane and membrane proteins during ciliogenesis, both to the ciliary vesicle as well as to the ciliary sheath.

      (4) The overall data quality is high. The investigation of EXOC6A at different time points during ciliogenesis is well schematized and explained.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Since many conclusions are based on EXOC6A immunostaining, it would strengthen the study to validate antibody specificity by demonstrating the absence of staining in EXOC6A-deficient cells.

      (2) While the authors generated an EXOC6A-deficient cell line, off-target effects can be clone-specific. Validating key experiments in a second independent knockout clone or rescuing the phenotype of the existing clone by re-expressing EXOC6A would ensure that the observed phenotypes are due to EXOC6A loss rather than unintended off-target effects.

      (3) Some experimental details are lacking from the materials and methods section. No information on how the co-immunoprecipitation experiments have been performed can be found. The concentrations of pharmacological agents should be provided to allow proper interpretation of the results, as higher or lower doses can produce nonspecific effects. For example, the concentrations of ciliobrevin and nocodazole used to treat RPE1 cells are not specified and should be included. More precise settings for the FRAP experiments would help others reproduce the presented data. Some details for the siRNA-based knockdowns, such as incubation times, can only be found in the figure legends.

      Taken together, the authors achieved their goal of elucidating the role of EXOC6A in ciliogenesis, demonstrating its involvement in vesicle trafficking and membrane remodeling in both early and late stages of ciliogenesis. Their findings are supported by experimental evidence. This work is likely to have an impact on the field by expanding our understanding of the molecular machinery underlying cilia biogenesis, particularly the coordination between the exocyst complex and cytoskeletal transport systems. The methods and data presented offer valuable tools for dissecting vesicle dynamics and cilium formation, providing a foundation for future research into ciliary dysfunction and related diseases. By connecting vesicle trafficking to structural maturation of an organelle, the study adds important context to the broader description of cellular architecture and organelle biogenesis.

      We sincerely thank Reviewer 3 for the thorough and thoughtful assessment of our manuscript. We greatly appreciate the recognition of the strengths of our study, including the use of advanced microscopy techniques, complementary functional tools, and the conceptual contributions regarding EXOC6A's role in vesicle trafficking and membrane remodeling during ciliogenesis.

      Below, we detail how we have addressed the specific suggestions for improvement:

      (1) Validation of EXOC6A Immunostaining Specificity

      To directly address the reviewer’s concern regarding antibody specificity, we have included new control immunofluorescence panels in Figure S3E-F, which show a complete loss of EXOC6A signal in two independent knockout (KO) clones. These data confirm the specificity of the EXOC6A antibody used throughout the study and reinforce the accuracy of our localization analyses at different stages of ciliogenesis.

      (2) Addressing Potential Clone-Specific or Off-Target Effects

      To ensure that the observed phenotypes are attributable to EXOC6A loss and not due to off-target effects, we performed parallel analyses using two independent KO clones, all of which exhibited identical defects in ciliogenesis, including arrest at the ciliary vesicle stage and impaired cilia assembly (Fig. S3C-D).

      In addition, we conducted rescue experiments by re-expressing EXOC6A in the KO background, which effectively restored ciliogenesis. Quantitative analysis of the rescue data has been added to the revised manuscript (Figure S6B), providing further support that the observed phenotype is specifically due to EXOC6A deficiency.

      (3) Expanded Methodological Details

      - A detailed protocol for co-immunoprecipitation experiments, including lysis conditions, antibody concentrations, and washing steps.

      - The precise concentrations and treatment durations for all pharmacological agents used, including ciliobrevin and nocodazole.

      - Comprehensive details on the siRNA-mediated knockdowns, including oligonucleotide sequences, transfection reagents, and incubation durations.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewing Editor Comments:

      After further consultation, all 3 reviewers agreed that this is an important study with highquality data, in particular the imaging data. They also considered most of the evidence convincing, but overall they termed it "solid" for two main reasons: first, they would have liked to see a validation of the EXOC6A antibody specificity, and second, they suggest that you demonstrate for at least key experiments the phenotypes with a second KO clone, to exclude clonal effects. In principle, rescue would be suited to address this, but the issue here is that the presented rescue is not very robust.

      We sincerely thank the Editor and all reviewers for their constructive and thoughtful evaluation of our manuscript. We are especially grateful for the recognition of the highquality imaging data, the experimental rigor, and the significance of our findings to the field of ciliogenesis.

      We fully acknowledge the two principal concerns raised during further consultation: (1) the need for validation of EXOC6A antibody specificity, and (2) the importance of confirming the phenotypes in an independent knockout clone to exclude clonal artifacts. We have taken both of these points seriously and have now addressed them through additional experiments and analyses, as detailed below:

      (1) Validation Using Independent Knockout Clones

      To rigorously validate antibody specificity and eliminate the possibility of clonal variation, we have characterized a second independent EXOC6A knockout (KO) clone. We confirmed complete loss of EXOC6A expression in both clones using three orthogonal approaches: genotyping, immunoblotting, and immunofluorescence (Fig. S3). Both KO clones exhibit indistinguishable phenotypes, including arrest at the ciliary vesicle stage and impaired cilia formation (Fig. S3D). 

      (2) Rescue Phenotype Validation with Statistical Significance

      In response to concerns about the robustness of the rescue, we have now included statistical analysis of the rescue experiments. A two-tailed Student’s t-test comparing ciliogenesis between the EXOC6A KO and rescue (GFP-EXOC6A re-expression) conditions shows a statistically significant improvement (p = 0.0041) (Fig. S6B). While we acknowledge that the rescue is partial—likely due to limitations of overexpression systems—the statistically significant recovery provides strong genetic evidence that the phenotypes are specific and reversible. These data are now included in the revised Figure S6.

      (3) Functional Consequences of EXOC6A Loss on Ciliary Membrane Protein Trafficking

      To further strengthen the mechanistic conclusions, we expanded our study to include the trafficking of two functional ciliary membrane proteins. We show that in EXOC6A KO cells, both BBS9 (a component of the BBSome complex) and GPR161 (a GPCR involved in Shh signaling) fail to enter the cilium. These results suggest that EXOC6A is required not only for early structural events in ciliogenesis, but also for establishing a competent transition zone, critical for ciliary membrane protein recruitment. These findings are detailed in the revised Figure 7C and corresponding Results.

      We believe that these additional experiments and clarifications directly address the concerns and significantly strengthen the robustness and impact of our study.

      The reviewers also made additional suggestions regarding functional and mechanistic insights that would strengthen the manuscript even further.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) The authors should include control IF panels for the specificity of the EXOC6A stainings at the various ciliogenesis stages using the KO cell line.

      We thank the reviewer for this important suggestion. We have now included the requested immunofluorescence (IF) control panels to validate the specificity of the EXOC6A antibody. As shown in the newly added Figure S3, EXOC6A immunofluorescence signal is completely absent in EXOC6A knockout (KO) cells at CV (Fig. S3E) and cilia membrane (Fig. S3F) stages, whereas robust and stage-specific signals are observed in wild-type cells. These results confirm the specificity of the endogenous EXOC6A staining used throughout the study and validate the spatiotemporal localization patterns reported in the main figures.

      (2) It would be informative to compare EXOC6A KO and RNAi to determine whether the only partially impaired ciliogenesis phenotype may be a consequence of cellular adaptation.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s concern regarding potential cellular adaptation or clonespecific effects. To address this, we examined the ciliogenesis phenotype in two independent EXOC6A KO clones generated using distinct sgRNA targeting strategies. As shown in Figure S3, two independent KO clones displayed a highly consistent phenotype characterized by a pronounced arrest at the ciliary vesicle (CV) stage and a significant reduction in mature cilium formation.

      The reproducibility of this phenotype across multiple independently derived clones strongly argues against clonal variability or long-term adaptive compensation as the underlying cause. Instead, these results support the conclusion that the observed ciliogenesis defects are a direct and specific consequence of EXOC6A loss.

      (3) It remains unclear whether EXOC6A's function in ciliogenesis is part of the exocyst complex. This is currently implied by the context in which it is introduced and discussed, although the authors avoid any direct statement about this. Do the authors observe similar phenotypes by knocking down any other exocyst subunit? In any case, this issue should be discussed.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this conceptual point. This study did not explore the functions of other components of the exocytosis complex during ciliogenesis, which warrants further investigation in the future. However, in our biochemical analyses, Myosin ‑Va specifically co‑immunoprecipitated with EXOC6A but not with other exocyst subunits tested (EXOC5 and EXOC7) (Fig. 4E) indicating a selective interaction between EXOC6A and the Myo‑Va transport machinery.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      To clarify the roles of EXOC6A in ciliogenesis, I suggest the following:

      (1) Myo-Va is involved in both the intracellular and extracellular ciliogenesis pathways. The authors show that EXOC6A has a role in the intracellular ciliogenesis pathway. Does it also participate in the extracellular pathway?

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful question. Given that Myo-Va functions in both intracellular and extracellular ciliogenesis pathways, it is indeed plausible that EXOC6A may also participate in the extracellular pathway. However, the current study was specifically focused on elucidating the molecular mechanisms of intracellular ciliogenesis using RPE1 cells, which exclusively undergo this pathway. Assessing EXOC6A’s role in the extracellular pathway would require the use of specialized models (e.g., polarized epithelial cells such as MDCK or IMCD3), which fall beyond the scope of this manuscript.

      (2) In the live imaging movies (Fig 3C, 3D, supp movie 4 and 5), the authors observe tubular structures and puncta with EXOC6A and conclude that these are dynamic vesicles/membranes. While the movies are suggestive of membrane-like behavior, it would be helpful to show that these puncta and tubules have membrane, perhaps by astaining with a membrane dye.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s suggestion to validate the membrane identity of EXOC6Apositive structures. While we did not perform membrane dye staining in the current study, we agree this approach would provide additional confirmation. Nevertheless, the dynamic behaviors observed in our live-cell imaging—including membrane-like tubulation, fusion, and fission—strongly support the interpretation that EXOC6A puncta and tubules

      (3) It is unclear how the EXOC6A tubules and vesicles are delivered, and the extent to which MyoVa plays a role. The authors co-label EXOC6A and MyoVa in Supp Fig 2, but EXOC6A dynamics seem very different here, as compared to Fig 3D - there are fewer tubules and puncta and less movement of either tubules or puncta between time points. Does expression of MyoVa decrease EXOC6A membrane dynamics? Or is it required for EXOC6A membrane dynamics?

      We thank the reviewer for this observation. The apparent differences in EXOC6A dynamics between Supplementary Figure 2 and Figure 3D most likely reflect cell-to-cell variability in dynamic behavior, which is common in live-cell imaging. Both figures were derived from the same stable cell line co-expressing EXOC6A and Myo-Va-GTD. Moreover, our analysis shows that Myo-Va-GTD overexpression does not suppress EXOC6A dynamics, nor is it required for membrane remodeling per se. However, Myo-Va is essential for EXOC6A recruitment to the ciliary vesicle, as shown by the loss of EXOC6A localization in Myo-Va KO cells (Fig. 4A).

      (4) The authors show that loss of EXOC6A affects the localization of some transition zone proteins. Does this subsequently lead to defects in transition zone function?

      We agree with the reviewer that structural defects in the transition zone (TZ) should be linked to its function. To address this, we examined the localization of two wellcharacterized ciliary membrane-associated proteins: BBS9 and GPR161. Both proteins failed to localize to the cilia in EXOC6A knockout cells, despite proper recruitment in wildtype controls (Fig. 7C). Although we did not examine the exact functions of GPR161 and BBS9, our results suggest that the loss of EXOC6A may impair TZ function, particularly its gating capacity for membrane protein trafficking.

      (5) Additional information about how the MKS proteins are regulated by EXOC6A would be helpful to understand the mechanisms by which EXOC6A builds the transition zone. Does EXOC6A directly bind to MKS proteins, or are the MKS proteins delivered by EXOC6A-containing vesicles during ciliogenesis?

      We appreciate the reviewers' questions regarding the mechanistic relationship between EXOC6A and MKS module proteins. In this study, we did not explore the mechanism by which EXOC6A constructs the transition zone. This is an interesting topic worthy of further investigation in the future.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Recommended modifications:

      (1) The co-immunoprecipitation experiments suggest an interaction between EXOC6A and Myo-Va; however, the presence of a faint band in the IgG control raises some uncertainty. To reinforce this conclusion, the authors could demonstrate that the interaction is absent in the EXOC6A knockout cell line.

      We thank the reviewer for this careful observation. We acknowledge the presence of a faint Myo‑Va signal in the IgG control lane. Myosin‑Va is a highly abundant cytoskeletal motor protein and can occasionally exhibit low‑level nonspecific binding to agarose beads during immunoprecipitation assays. Importantly, the Myo‑Va signal co‑immunoprecipitated with endogenous EXOC6A is substantially stronger and specifically enriched compared with the IgG control, supporting a specific interaction.

      (2) Figure S5: The partial rescue of the EXOC6A phenotype is not entirely convincing. A statistical test to assess the significance of the observed differences may help to strengthen the authors' conclusion.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s suggestion to validate the rescue experiment. We have now performed a pairwise two‑tailed Student’s t‑test comparing ciliogenesis efficiency between EXOC6A knockout cells and rescue cells expressing GFP‑EXOC6A. As shown in the revised Figure S6 (original Figure S5), re‑expression of EXOC6A resulted in a statistically significant recovery of ciliogenesis (p = 0.0041). While the rescue is partial—likely due to inherent limitations of plasmid‑based expression systems, including variable transfection efficiency and imperfect restoration of endogenous protein levels—the statistically significant improvement confirms that the ciliogenesis defect is specifically caused by EXOC6A loss. Figure S6 and its legend have been updated accordingly.

      (3) A detailed description of the EXOC6A knockout strategy should be included.

      The Method section has been expanded to include a comprehensive description of the CRISPR/Cas9 ‑ mediated EXOC6A knockout strategy, including sgRNA sequences, genomic target sites, and validation approaches. Additionally, we now include Figure S3, demonstrating complete loss of EXOC6A protein expression in two independent knockout clones, confirming the efficiency and specificity of the gene‑editing strategy.

      (4) The labeling in Figure 6 is confusing; assigning a separate letter to each panel would improve clarity.

      Figure 6 has been reorganized for clarity: the original panels have been subdivided and relabeled as 6A/6A’ and 6B/6B’, respectively. The figure legend and all corresponding references in the main text have been updated accordingly.

      (5) Lines 109-112: The cell line used is not well described. While experts might understand that Dox is used to induce expression of the transgenes, this should be better explained for non-expert readers.

      We have revised the text to clearly explain that doxycycline (Dox) is used to induce transgene expression via a Tet‑On inducible system. This clarification has been added to the main text.

      (6) Line 180: replace "labels" with "structures".

      We have revised the text as suggested.

      (7) Line 189: the EXOC6A recruitment to the membrane structures seems to be occurring on a short timescale that should be specified. In this context, "immediately" appears unscientific.

      We have revised the sentence to specify that EXOC6A recruitment occurs within seconds, based on our live‑cell imaging data, providing a more accurate temporal description.

      (8) Lines 280-282: We recommend rewording to soften this statement. Actin and microtubule inhibitors affect the entire cytoskeletal network; more specific experiments would be required to assess whether the transport of vesicles is defective.

      We have reworded the statement to indicate that the accumulation of these vesicles at the mother centrioles is highly sensitive to disruption of dynein or microtubules, suggesting that efficient transport of these vesicles may depend on the integrity of the microtubule network. However, more experiments are required to confirm this conclusion. 

      (9) Lines: 428-433: Similarly, we recommend rewording this statement as it presents the authors' current model, which is in line with the presented data but would require more rigorous investigation.

      We have revised this section to describe the mechanism as a working model supported by our data, while acknowledging that further investigation will be required to fully establish the proposed hierarchy and molecular details.

      Questions and comments to consider:

      (1) 15-30% of cells can form cilia-like structures in the EXOC6A KO cells, although membrane transport should be reduced. It would be interesting to investigate whether these cilia are only formed intracellularly and fail to reach the cell surface.

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful question. Using both immunofluorescence and electron microscopy, we observed that a subset of ciliary membranes in EXOC6A KO cells do appear to fuse with the plasma membrane. However, due to the low frequency and heterogeneous morphology of these structures, we were unable to reliably quantify this population. 

      (2) In the Western blot shown in Figure 4, EXOC6A appears at multiple molecular weights when detected with the anti-EXOC6A antibody. Providing a possible explanation for this shift would be helpful.

      We clarify that the apparent molecular weight shift likely results from gel distortion during electrophoretic separation. Importantly, the specificity of the major EXOC6A band was rigorously validated by its complete absence in EXOC6A knockout lysates, confirming that the detected signal corresponds to EXOC6A.

      (3) The Western blot in Figure 5B is not fully convincing; including additional independent blots would be nice.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. Figure 5B has been replaced with a blot from an independent experiment, improving clarity and reproducibility.

      (4) According to the materials and methods section, siRNA-mediated knockdown of targets was performed using a single siRNA per gene, which could result in off-target effects. It would be advised to use several different siRNAs for a single target to exclude off-target effects, cite references or, in case this has been done.

      We appreciate this concern. The siRNAs used in this study were previously validated in our earlier work (Wu et al., Nat Cell Biol 2018), where both specificity and efficiency were rigorously tested. We have now explicitly cited this reference in the Materials and Methods section to justify the selection of these reagents.

      (5) The abbreviation CFLEM is uncommon for correlative (fluorescence) light and electron microscopy; the authors should consider using the standard abbreviation CLEM.

      We have replaced “CFLEM” with the standard term CLEM (Correlative Light and Electron Microscopy) throughout the manuscript and figure legends.

      (6) The term "M-centriole" is uncommon and should at least be introduced. The use of the term "mother centriole" is recommended.

      We have replaced “M‑centriole” with the standard term “mother centriole” throughout the manuscript and figures.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Lipid transfer proteins (LTPs) play a crucial role in the intramembrane lipid exchange within cells. However, the molecular mechanisms that govern this activity remain largely unclear. Specifically, the way in which LTPs surmount the energy barrier to extract a single lipid molecule from a lipid bilayer is not yet fully understood. This manuscript investigates the influence of membrane properties on the binding of Ups1 to the membrane and the transfer of phosphatidic acid (PA) by the LTP. The findings reveal that Ups1 shows a preference for binding to membranes with positive curvature. Moreover, coarse-grained molecular dynamics simulations indicate that positive curvature decreases the energy barrier associated with PA extraction from the membrane. Additionally, lipid transfer assays conducted with purified proteins and liposomes in vitro demonstrate that the size of the donor membrane significantly impacts lipid transfer efficiency by Ups1-Mdm35 complexes, with smaller liposomes (characterized by high positive curvature) promoting rapid lipid transfer.

      This study offers significant new insights into the reaction cycle of phosphatidic acid (PA) transfer by Ups1 in mitochondria. Notably, the authors present compelling evidence that, alongside negatively charged phospholipids, positive membrane curvature enhances lipid transfer - an effect that is particularly relevant at the mitochondrial outer membrane. The experiments are technically robust, and my primary feedback pertains to the interpretation of specific results.

      (1) The authors conclude from the lipid transfer assays (Figure 5) that lipid extraction is the rate-limiting step in the transfer cycle. While this conclusion seems plausible, it should be noted that the authors employed high concentrations of Ups1-Mdm35 along with less negatively charged phospholipids in these reactions. This combination may lead to binding becoming the rate-limiting factor. The authors should take this point into consideration. In this type of assay, it is challenging to clearly distinguish between binding, lipid extraction, and membrane dissociation as separate processes.

      We have included a detailed consideration of this issue on page 11 of the revised manuscript.

      (2) The authors should discuss that variations in the size of liposomes will also affect the distance between them at a constant concentration, which may affect the rate of lipid transfer. Therefore, the authors should determine the average size and size distribution of liposomes after sonication (by DLS or nanoparticle analyzer, etc.)

      We have included DLS measurements for all lipid sizes (page 6) (SupFig. 2A). Due to the sensitivity of the intensity distribution in DLS measurements by larger particles, we also conducted cryo-EM analysis of vesicles with different sizes (page 6) (SupFig. 2B).

      We also now discuss the challenges posed by a fixed membrane-binding surface, which can lead to variations in vesicle spacing when using liposomes of different sizes and its possible influence on the interpretation of results (page 10-11).

      (3) The authors use NBD-PA in the lipid transfer assays. Does the size of the donor liposomes affect the transfer of NBD-PA and DOPA similarly? Since NBD-labeled lipids are somewhat unstable within lipid bilayers (as shown by spontaneous desorption in Figure 5B), monitoring the transfer of unlabeled PA in at least one setting would strengthen the conclusion of the swap experiments.

      To experimentally address this comment, we explored several different approaches. We first performed transfer experiments using unlabelled lipids, following the general procedures described in the manuscript. After the transfer reaction, we attempted to separate donor and acceptor vesicles by centrifugation and subsequently analyzed the samples by high-resolution mass spectrometry and thin-layer chromatography. Despite considerable effort, we were not able to reliably separate the differently sized liposomes. In particular, small liposomes proved difficult to handle during centrifugation, which is a well-known challenge (Kučerka et al. 1994, BBA; Boucrot et al. 2012, Cell). In addition, liposomes exhibited a tendency to cross-link in the presence of protein, further complicating the separation. Even if this separation step were straightforward, an important limitation of such an approach is that it is very difficult to monitor lipid transfer with sufficient time resolution. Much of the relevant activity occurs within the first 20–30 seconds, and precise interruption at defined time points would be essential.

      We therefore set out to establish a fluorescence-based assay that would allow us to follow lipid transfer in real time. For this, we adapted a dequenching-type assay based on a PE coupled fluorescein dye, whose fluorescence is quenched in the proximity of negative charges (e.g., negatively charged lipid headgroups). In principle, this assay should allow us to monitor the movement of negatively charged PA lipids away from donor membranes. Although a fluorescein-based passive lipid-transfer assay has been described previously (Richens et al., 2017), it is used only rarely in the lipid-transfer field. While establishing this assay, we encountered several technical challenges. For example, immediately after protein addition, fluorescence intensity changed in unexpected ways that could not be attributed to lipid transfer. Such effects have been reported in the literature (Wall et al., 1995) and are most likely caused by changes in membrane charge density upon protein binding. After extensive fine -tuning of the experimental conditions and careful evaluation of the data, we were ultimately able to demonstrate that lipid-transfer rates are significantly higher with smaller than with larger liposomes. These results confirm our initial observations, and importantly, they were obtained using unlabelled PA.

      The revised manuscript now includes this independent lipid-transfer assay demonstrating the transfer of non-labelled PA (page 11) (SupFig. 4).

      (4) The present study suggests that membrane domains with positive curvature at the outer membrane may serve as starting points for lipid transport by Ups1-Mdm35. Is anything known about the mechanisms that form such structures? This should be discussed in the text.

      We included a detailed consideration of this interesting point in the discussion section on page 13-14.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Lipid transfer between membranes is essential for lipid biosynthesis across different organelle membranes. Ups1-Mdm35 is one of the best-characterized lipid transfer proteins, responsible for transferring phosphatidic acid (PA) between the mitochondrial outer membrane (OM) and inner membrane (IM), a process critical for cardiolipin (CL) synthesis in the IM. Upon dissociation from Mdm35, Ups1 binds to the intermembrane space (IMS) surface of the OM, extracts a PA molecule, re-associates with Mdm35, and moves through the aqueous IMS to deliver PA to the IM. Here, the authors analyzed the early steps of this PA transfer - membrane binding and PA extraction - using a combination of in vitro biochemical assays with lipid liposomes and purified Ups1-Mdm35 to measure liposome binding, lipid transfer between liposomes, and lipid extraction from liposomes. The authors found that membrane curvature, a previously overlooked property of the membrane, significantly affects PA extraction but not PA insertion into liposomes. These findings were further supported by MD simulations.

      Strengths:

      The experiments are well-designed, and the data are logically interpreted. The present study provides an important basis for understanding the mechanism of lipid transfer between membranes.

      Weaknesses:

      The physiological relevance of membrane curvature in lipid extraction and transfer still remains open.

      We thank the reviewer for the constructive feedback on our work. We agree that the physiological relevance of membrane curvature in lipid extraction and transfer remains an open question. Our data show that Ups1 binding to native-like OM membranes under physiological pH conditions is curvature-dependent, supporting the idea that this mechanism may optimize lipid transfer in vivo. While the intricate biophysical basis of this behaviour can only be dissected in vitro, these findings offer valuable insight into how curvature may functionally regulate Ups1 activity in the cellular context. To directly test this, it will be important in future studies to identify Ups1 mutants that lack curvature sensitivity and assess their performance in vivo, which will help clarify the physiological importance of this mechanism.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      The manuscript by Sadeqi et al. studies the interactions between the mitochondrial protein Ups1 and reconstituted membranes. The authors apply synthetic liposomal vesicles to investigate the role of pH, curvature, and charge on the binding of Ups1 to membranes and its ability to extract PA from them. The manuscript is well written and structured. With minor exceptions, the authors provide all relevant information (see minor points below) and reference the appropriate literature in their introduction. The underlying question of how the energy barrier for lipid extraction from membranes is overcome by Ups1 is interesting, and the data presented by the authors could offer a valuable new perspective on this process. It is also certainly a challenging in vitro reconstitution experiment, as the authors aim to disentangle individual membrane properties (e.g., curvature, charge, and packing density) to study protein adsorption and lipid transfer. I have one major suggestion and a few minor ones that the authors might want to consider to improve their manuscript and data interpretation:

      Major Comments:

      The experiments are performed with reconstituted vesicles, which are incubated with recombinant protein variants and quantitatively assessed in flotation and pelleting assays. According to the Materials and Methods section, the lipid concentration in these assays is kept constant at 5 µM. However, the authors change the size of the vesicles to tune their curvature. Using the same lipid concentration but varying vesicle sizes results in different total vesicle concentrations. Moreover, larger vesicles (produced by freeze-thawing and extrusion) tend to form a higher proportion of multilamellar vesicles, thus also altering the total membrane area available for binding. Could these differences in the experimental system account for the variation in binding? To address this, the authors would need to perform the experiments either under saturated (excess protein) conditions or find an experimental approach to normalize for these differences.

      To experimentally address this comment, we have conducted a detailed structural analysis of liposomes of different sizes using cryo-EM to determine the degrees of multi-lamellarity and to estimate how much membrane surface is available for protein binding. We found that while indeed as expected liposomes extruded through a 400 nm sized filter showed about 75 % of the initially calculated membrane surface is still available (SupFig. 3A). For 50 nm extruded liposomes, this number went up to about 93 % and for sonicated liposomes the number was about 94 %. Given the fact that we found about 70 % binding of Ups1 to sonicated liposomes, while this number went down to about 40 % with 50 nm liposomes and to about 30 % for 400 nm extruded liposomes, we can rule out that the effects we observe are due to an increased or decreased available membrane binding area.

      Additionally, we performed experiments with increasing amounts of lipids to analyse the impact of lipid concentration on Ups1 membrane binding, when comparing 400 nm extruded liposomes with sonicated liposomes. Interestingly, while we do observe an increased binding of Ups1 to sonicated liposomes with concentrations varying between 2.5 mM to 10 mM no major increase in binding was observed with 400 nm extruded liposomes. Ups1 membrane binding to sonicated liposomes highly exceeded binding to 400 nm extruded liposomes under all tested conditions (page 7) (SupFig. 3B).

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors:):

      (1) Figures 1, 2, and 3 - In the flotation assays, the Ups1-containing fractions differ between experiments. The presence of liposomes in these fractions should be confirmed, for example, by fluorescence measurements. In relation to this, the broad low MW bands in Supplementary Figure 3 may reflect liposomes (mixed micelles of lipids and SDS?), as their fractionation patterns coincide with those of Ups1 at pH 5.5 -6.7 but deviate at pH 7.0 and 7.5. Could the authors clarify this discrepancy?

      Flotation profiles vary with changing conditions of the experiment. We have included a picture of a gel showing the Coomassie staining and the fluorescence of the used lipids side by side to show that the protein bands co-migrate together with liposomes (SupFig. 5). 

      (2) Figures 2, 3, and 5 - The sizes of the liposomes (400 nm and 50 nm) should be experimentally confirmed, e.g., by dynamic light scattering (DLS).

      We have included DLS measurements confirming the differences of liposome sizes. Please see answer to point 2 of Reviewer 1.

      (3) Figure 4C - The free energy landscape for different phospholipids is interesting. What about other acidic phospholipids, such as PS?

      This is indeed an interesting point. Our molecular dynamics simulations show that PE has a similar free energy landscape to PA while PC is significantly different. This might point into the direction that the headgroup size plays a major role. For intra-mitochondrial PS transport a specific protein complex consisting of Ups2/Mdm35 has been identified, and it will be an interesting question for future studies if PS transfer is regulated by similar factors.

      (4) Supplementary Figure 2 - The deformation of liposomes by Ups1 is interesting. Does this depend on the presence of PA or other acidic phospholipids?

      We asked ourself the same question throughout the project. As pointed out in the manuscript, the membrane-deforming activity of Ups1 is relatively mild when compared to proteins found for example in endocytosis. This made a proper static analysis challenging. We weren’t able to unambiguously show whether other acidic phospholipids showed comparable effects to PA.

      (5) It may not be easy to assess experimentally, but the OM in mitochondria should have scramblase activity. Then, such scramblase activity could influence the observed effects of membrane curvature on Ups1-mediated PA transfer.

      (6) It would be helpful to discuss this possibility in the manuscript.

      In the revised version of the manuscript, we now discuss the existence of scramblases, such as Sam50 and VDAC, in the outer mitochondrial membrane with regard to their likely effect on membrane packing (page 13 - 14). As for a co-reconstitution experiment we considered the in vitro analysis of the impact that a scramblase in liposomes might have on lipid transfer outside the scope of this study. 

      (7) Figure 6 is not referenced in the main text.

      Thank you, this oversight was corrected.

      (8) The non-abbreviated forms of LUV and SUV should be defined in the text upon first use.

      We now include a definition in the manuscript.

      (9) The term "transfer velocity" would be better expressed as "transfer rate".

      We agree, and we changed the wording accordingly.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) As flotation assays are a central technique of the study, readers who are not familiar with this method could benefit from a few explanatory sentences and appropriate references in the introduction section.

      Figure 1B now contains an updated version of a cartoon outlining the flotation assay and a description in the manuscript (page 4) that should make it easier to understand the assay. We have also included a direct reference within the methods section to a paper describing this assay in more detail.

      (2) Related to the major point, but also to improve the manuscript overall, the authors could add DLS (for size distribution and zeta potential) and cryo-EM (for multilamellarity analysis) data. This would aid future efforts to reproduce their observations.

      In the revised version of the manuscript we include DLS and zeta potential measurements as well as a detailed analysis of liposome multilamellarity by cryo-EM (also see answer to point 2 by Reviewer 1) (SupFig. 2A & B; SupFig. 3E).

      (3) Could the authors state the specific zeta potentials of the negatively charged (under varying pH) and neutral liposomes and relate these to natural membranes?

      We have included zeta potential measurements of differently charged liposomes in and changed the text accordingly (page 8) (SupFig. 3E).

      (4) Changes in pH affect several characteristics of membranes (including lipid dipoles, charge, packing density, fluidity, and phase separation), particularly charge density. This experimental system does not allow all of these factors to be disentangled and studied separately. Some of the observations presented in Figures 2 and 5 could also be explained by these effects.

      The effects of pH on various membrane properties, such as lipid headgroup dipoles, lipid packing, interfacial tension, and others, are well described in the literature. For example, it was implied that increasing pH leads to phosphatidic acid (PA) becoming more negatively charged when in proximity to phosphatidylethanolamine (PE). We already discuss this effect in the manuscript, as our observation that Ups1 binding to membranes depends on negatively charged lipids but nevertheless increases with decreasing pH is unexpected.

      As pointed out, many of the parameters mentioned above are beyond control in our assays, and a systematic analysis of each of these factors with respect to Ups1 membrane binding and lipid transfer would be well beyond the scope of this manuscript. We have therefore included a passage discussing this issue in more detail (page 4-5).

      (5) Is the curvature simulated in the theoretical models comparable to the curvature of the liposome systems (e.g., a sphere of 100 nm diameter)?

      The simulated curvature spans a defined range, with the highest curvature corresponding to vesicles with diameters of approximately 15 nm. This corresponds reasonably well to the vesicle size distribution as analyzed by cryo-EM.

      Reference

      Connerth, M., Tatsuta, T., Haag, M., Klecker, T., Westermann, B., & Langer, T. (2012). Intramitochondrial transport of phosphatidic acid in yeast by a lipid transfer protein. Science, 338(6108), 815-818. https://doi.org/10.1126/science.1225625

      Lu, J., Chan, C., Yu, L., Fan, J., Sun, F., & Zhai, Y. (2020). Molecular mechanism of mitochondrial phosphatidate transfer by Ups1. Commun Biol, 3(1), 468. https://doi.org/10.1038/s42003-020-01121-x

      Miliara, X., Garnett, J. A., Tatsuta, T., Abid Ali, F., Baldie, H., Perez-Dorado, I., Simpson, P., Yague, E., Langer, T., & Matthews, S. (2015). Structural insight into the TRIAP1/PRELI-like domain family of mitochondrial phospholipid transfer complexes. EMBO Rep, 16(7), 824-835. https://doi.org/10.15252/embr.201540229

      Miliara, X., Tatsuta, T., Berry, J. L., Rouse, S. L., Solak, K., Chorev, D. S., Wu, D., Robinson, C. V., Matthews, S., & Langer, T. (2019). Structural determinants of lipid specificity within Ups/PRELI lipid transfer proteins. Nat Commun, 10(1), 1130. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41467-019-09089-x

      Miliara, X., Tatsuta, T., Eiyama, A., Langer, T., Rouse, S. L., & Matthews, S. (2023). An intermolecular hydrogen-bonded network in the PRELID-TRIAP protein family plays a role in lipid sensing. Biochim Biophys Acta Proteins Proteom, 1871(1), 140867. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.bbapap.2022.140867

      Potting, C., Tatsuta, T., Konig, T., Haag, M., Wai, T., Aaltonen, M. J., & Langer, T. (2013). TRIAP1/PRELI complexes prevent apoptosis by mediating intramitochondrial transport of phosphatidic acid. Cell Metab, 18(2), 287-295. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cmet.2013.07.008

      Richens, J. L., Tyler, A. I. I., Barriga, H. M. G., Bramble, J. P., Law, R. V., Brooks, N. J., Seddon, J. M., Ces, O., & O'Shea, P. (2017). Spontaneous charged lipid transfer between lipid vesicles. Sci Rep, 7(1), 12606. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-017-12611-0

      Wall, J., Golding, C. A., Van Veen, M., & O'Shea, P. (1995). The use of fluoresceinphosphaCdylethanolamine (FPE) as a real-time probe for peptide-membrane interactions. Mol Membr Biol, 12(2), 183-192. https://doi.org/10.3109/09687689509027506

      Watanabe, Y., Tamura, Y., Kawano, S., & Endo, T. (2015). Structural and mechanistic insights into phospholipid transfer by Ups1-Mdm35 in mitochondria. Nat Commun, 6, 7922. https://doi.org/10.1038/ncomms8922

    1. Author response:

      Reviewer 1 (Public review):

      (1) Figure 1B shows the PREDICTED force-extension curve for DNA based on a worm-like chain model. Where is the experimental evidence for this curve? This issue is crucial because the F-E curve will decide how and when a catch-bond is induced (if at all it is) as the motor moves against the tensiometer. Unless this is actually measured by some other means, I find it hard to accept all the results based on Figure 1B.

      The Worm-Like-Chain model for the elasticity of DNA was established by early work from the Bustamante lab (Smith et al., 1992)  and Marko and Siggia (Marko and Siggia, 1995), and was further validated and refined by the Block lab (Bouchiat et al., 1999; Wang et al., 1997). The 50 nm persistence length is the consensus value, and was shown to be independent of force and extension in Figure 3 of Bouchiat et al (Bouchiat et al., 1999). However, we would like to stress that for our conclusions, the precise details of the Force-Extension relationship of our dsDNA are immaterial. The key point is that the motor stretches the DNA and stalls when it reaches its stall force. Our claim of the catch-bond character of kinesin is based on the longer duration at stall compared to the run duration in the absence of load. Provided that the motor is indeed stalling because it has stretched out the DNA (which is strongly supported by the repeated stalling around the predicted extension corresponding to ~6 pN of force), then the stall duration depends on neither the precise value for the extension nor the precise value of the force at stall.

      (2) The authors can correct me on this, but I believe that all the catch-bond studies using optical traps have exerted a load force that exceeds the actual force generated by the motor. For example, see Figure 2 in reference 42 (Kunwar et al). It is in this regime (load force > force from motor) that the dissociation rate is reduced (catch-bond is activated). Such a regime is never reached in the DNA tensiometer study because of the very construction of the experiment. I am very surprised that this point is overlooked in this manuscript. I am therefore not even sure that the present experiments even induce a catch-bond (in the sense reported for earlier papers).

      It is true that Kunwar et al measured binding durations at super-stall loads and used that to conclude that dynein does act as a catch-bond (but kinesin does not) (Kunwar et al., 2011). However, we would like to correct the reviewer on this one. This approach of exerting super-stall forces and measuring binding durations is in fact less common than the approach of allowing the motor to walk up to stall and measuring the binding duration. This ‘fixed trap’ approach has been used to show catch-bond behavior of dynein (Leidel et al., 2012; Rai et al., 2013) and kinesin (Kuo et al., 2022; Pyrpassopoulos et al., 2020). For the non-processive motor Myosin I, a dynamic force clamp was used to keep the actin filament in place while the myosin generated a single step (Laakso et al., 2008). Because the motor generates the force, these are not superstall forces either.

      (3) I appreciate the concerns about the Vertical force from the optical trap. But that leads to the following questions that have not at all been addressed in this paper:

      (i) Why is the Vertical force only a problem for Kinesins, and not a problem for the dynein studies?

      Actually, we do not claim that vertical force is not a problem for dynein; our data do not speak to this question. There is debate in the literature as to whether dynein has catch bond behavior in the traditional single-bead optical trap geometry - while some studies have measured dynein catch bond behavior (Kunwar et al., 2011; Leidel et al., 2012; Rai et al., 2013), others have found that dynein has slip-bond or ideal-bond behavior (Ezber et al., 2020; Nicholas et al., 2015; Rao et al., 2019). This discrepancy may relate to vertical forces, but not in an obvious way.

      (ii) The authors state that "With this geometry, a kinesin motor pulls against the elastic force of a stretched DNA solely in a direction parallel to the microtubule". Is this really true? What matters is not just how the kinesin pulls the DNA, but also how the DNA pulls on the kinesin. In Figure 1A, what is the guarantee that the DNA is oriented only in the plane of the paper? In fact, the DNA could even be bending transiently in a manner that it pulls the kinesin motor UPWARDS (Vertical force). How are the authors sure that the reaction force between DNA and kinesin is oriented SOLELY along the microtubule?

      We acknowledge that “solely” is an absolute term that is too strong to describe our geometry. We will soften this term in our revision to “nearly parallel to the microtubule”. In the Geometry Calculations section of Supplementary Methods, we calculate that if the motor and streptavidin are on the same protofilament, the vertical force will be <1% of the horizontal force. We also note that if the motor is on a different protofilament, there will be lateral forces and forces perpendicular to the microtubule surface, except they are oriented toward rather than away from the microtubule. The DNA can surely bend due to thermal forces, but because inertia plays a negligible role at the nanoscale (Howard, 2001; Purcell, 1977), any resulting upward forces will only be thermal forces, which the motor is already subjected to at all times.

      (4) For this study to be really impactful and for some of the above concerns to be addressed, the data should also have included DNA tensiometer experiments with Dynein. I wonder why this was not done?

      As much as we would love to fully characterize dynein here, this paper is about kinesin and it took a substantial effort. The dynein work merits a stand-alone paper.

      While I do like several aspects of the paper, I do not believe that the conclusions are supported by the data presented in this paper for the reasons stated above.

      The three key points the reviewer makes are the validity of the worm-like-chain model, the question of superstall loads, and the role of DNA bending in generating vertical forces. We hope that we have fully addressed these concerns in our responses above.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Major comments:

      (1) The use of the term "catch bond" is misleading, as the authors do not really mean consistently a catch bond in the classical sense (i.e., a protein-protein interaction having a dissociation rate that decreases with load). Instead, what they mean is that after motor detachment (i.e., after a motor protein dissociating from a tubulin protein), there is a slip state during which the reattachment rate is higher as compared to a motor diffusing in solution. While this may indeed influence the dynamics of bidirectional cargo transport (e.g., during tug-of-war events), the used terms (detachment (with or without slip?), dissociation, rescue, ...) need to be better defined and the results discussed in the context of these definitions. It is very unsatisfactory at the moment, for example, that kinesin-3 is at first not classified as a catch bond, but later on (after tweaking the definitions) it is. In essence, the typical slip/catch bond nomenclature used for protein-protein interaction is not readily applicable for motors with slippage.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s point and we will work to streamline and define terms in our revision.

      (2) The authors define the stall duration as the time at full load, terminated by >60 nm slips/detachments. Isn't that a problem? Smaller slips are not detected/considered... but are also indicative of a motor dissociation event, i.e., the end of a stall. What is the distribution of the slip distances? If the slip distances follow an exponential decay, a large number of short slips are expected, and the presented data (neglecting those short slips) would be highly distorted.

      The reviewer brings up a good point that there may be undetected slips. To address this question, we plotted the distribution of slip distances for kinesin-3, which by far had the most slip events. As the reviewer suggested, it is indeed an exponential distribution. Our preliminary analysis suggests that roughly 20% of events are missed due to this 60 nm cutoff. This will change our unloaded duration numbers slightly, but this will not alter our conclusions.\

      (3) Along the same line: Why do the authors compare the stall duration (without including the time it took the motor to reach stall) to the unloaded single motor run durations? Shouldn't the times of the runs be included?

      The elastic force of the DNA spring is variable as the motor steps up to stall, and so if we included the entire run duration then it would be difficult to specify what force we were comparing to unloaded. More importantly, if we assume that any stepping and detachment behavior is history independent, then it is mathematically proper to take any arbitrary starting point (such as when the motor reaches stall), start the clock there, and measure the distribution of detachments durations relative to that starting point.

      More importantly, what we do in Fig. 3 is to separate out the ramps from the stalls and, using a statistical model, we compute a separate duration parameter (which is the inverse of the off-rate) for the ramp and the stall. What we find is that the relationship between ramp, stall, and unloaded durations is different for the three motors, which is interesting in itself.

      (4) At many places, it appears too simple that for the biologically relevant processes, mainly/only the load-dependent off-rates of the motors matter. The stall forces and the kind of motor-cargo linkage (e.g., rigid vs. diffusive) do likely also matter. For example: "In the context of pulling a large cargo through the viscous cytoplasm or competing against dynein in a tug-of-war, these slip events enable the motor to maintain force generation and, hence, are distinct from true detachment events." I disagree. The kinesin force at reattachment (after slippage) is much smaller than at stall. What helps, however, is that due to the geometry of being held close to the microtubule (either by the DNA in the present case or by the cargo in vivo) the attachment rate is much higher. Note also that upon DNA relaxation, the motor is likely kept close to the microtubule surface, while, for example, when bound to a vesicle, the motor may diffuse away from the microtubule quickly (e.g., reference 20).

      We appreciate the reviewer’s detailed thinking here, and we offer our perspective. As to the first point, we agree that the stall force is relevant and that the rigidity of the motor-cargo linkage will play a role. The goal of the sentence on pulling cargo that the reviewer highlights is to set up our analysis of slips, which we define as rearward displacements that don’t return to the baseline before force generation resumes. We agree that force after slippage is much smaller than at stall, and we plan to clarify that section of text. However, as shown in the model diagram in Fig. 5, we differentiate between the slip state (and recovery from this slip state) and the detached state (and reattachment from this detached state). This delineation is important because, as the reviewer points out, if we are measuring detachment and reattachment with our DNA tensiometer, then the geometry of a vesicle in a cell will be different and diffusion away from the microtubule or elastic recoil perpendicular to the microtubule will suppress this reattachment.

      Our evidence for a slip state in which the motor maintains association with the microtubule comes from optical trapping work by Tokelis et al (Toleikis et al., 2020) and Sudhakar et al (Sudhakar et al., 2021). In particular, Sudhakar used small, high index Germanium microspheres that had a low drag coefficient. They showed that during ‘slip’ events, the relaxation time constant of the bead back to the center of the trap was nearly 10-fold slower than the trap response time, consistent with the motor exerting drag on the microtubule. (With larger beads, the drag of the bead swamps the motor-microtubule friction.) Another piece of support for the motor maintaining association during a slip is work by Ramaiya et al. who used birefringent microspheres to exert and measure rotational torque during kinesin stepping (Ramaiya et al., 2017). In most traces, when the motor returned to baseline following a stall, the torque was dissipated as well, consistent with a ‘detached’ state. However, a slip event is shown in S18a where the motor slips backward while maintaining torque. This is best explained by the motor slipping backward in a state where the heads are associated with the microtubule (at least sufficiently to resist rotational forces). Thus, we term the resumption after slip to be a rescue from the slip state rather than a reattachment from the detached state.

      To finish the point, with the complex geometry of a vesicle, during slip events the motor remains associated with the microtubule and hence primed for recovery. This recovery rate is expected to be the same as for the DNA tensiometer. Following a detachment, however, we agree that there will likely be a higher probability of reattachment in the DNA tensiometer due to proximity effects, whereas with a vesicle any elastic recoil or ‘rolling’ will pull the detached motor away from the microtubule, suppressing reattachment. We plan to clarify these points in the text of the revision.

      (5) Why were all motors linked to the neck-coil domain of kinesin-1? Couldn't it be that for normal function, the different coils matter? Autoinhibition can also be circumvented by consistently shortening the constructs.

      We chose this dimerization approach to focus on how the mechoanochemical properties of kinesins vary between the three dominant transport families. We agree that in cells, autoinhibition of both kinesins and dynein likely play roles in regulating bidirectional transport, as will the activity of other regulatory proteins. The native coiled-coils may act as as ‘shock absorbers’ due to their compliance, or they might slow the motor reattachment rate due to the relatively large search volumes created by their long lengths (10s of nm). These are topics for future work. By using the neck-coil domain of kinesin-1 for all three motors, we eliminate any differences in autoinhibition or other regulation between the three kinesin families and focus solely on differences in the mechanochemistry of their motor domains.

      (6) I am worried about the neutravidin on the microtubules, which may act as roadblocks (e.g. DOI: 10.1039/b803585g), slip termination sites (maybe without the neutravidin, the rescue rate would be much lower?), and potentially also DNA-interaction sites? At 8 nM neutravidin and the given level of biotinylation, what density of neutravidin do the authors expect on their microtubules? Can the authors rule out that the observed stall events are predominantly the result of a kinesin motor being stopped after a short slippage event at a neutravidin molecule?

      We will address these points in our revision.

      (7) Also, the unloaded runs should be performed on the same microtubules as in the DNA experiments, i.e., with neutravidin. Otherwise, I do not see how the values can be compared.

      We will address this point in our revision.

      (8) If, as stated, "a portion of kinesin-3 unloaded run durations were limited by the length of the microtubules, meaning the unloaded duration is a lower limit." corrections (such as Kaplan-Meier) should be applied, DOI: 10.1016/j.bpj.2017.09.024.

      (9) Shouldn't Kaplan-Meier also be applied to the ramp durations ... as a ramp may also artificially end upon stall? Also, doesn't the comparison between ramp and stall duration have a problem, as each stall is preceded by a ramp ...and the (maximum) ramp times will depend on the speed of the motor? Kinesin-3 is the fastest motor and will reach stall much faster than kinesin-1. Isn't it obvious that the stall durations are longer than the ramp duration (as seen for all three motors in Figure 3)?

      The reviewer rightly notes the many challenges in estimating the motor off-rates during ramps. To estimate ramp off-rates and as an independent approach to calculating the unloaded and stall durations, we developed a Markov model coupled with Bayesian inference methods to estimate a duration parameter (equivalent to the inverse of the off-rate) for the unloaded, ramp, and stall duration distributions. With the ramps, we have left censoring due to the difficulty in detecting the start of the ramps in the fluctuating baseline, and we have right censoring due to reaching stall (with different censoring of the ramp duration for the three motors due to their different speeds). The Markov model assumes a constant detachment probability and history independence, and thus is robust even in the face of left and right censoring (details in the Supplementary section). This approach is preferred over Kaplan-Meier because, although these non-parametric methods make no assumptions for the distribution, they require the user to know exactly where the start time is.

      Regarding the potential underestimate of the kinesin-3 unloaded run duration due to finite microtubule lengths. The first point is that the unloaded duration data in Fig. 2C are quite linear up to 6 s and are well fit by the single-exponential fit (the points above 6s don’t affect the fit very much). The second point is that when we used our Markov model (which is robust against right censoring) to estimate the unloaded and stall durations, the results agreed with the single-exponential fits very well (Table S2). For instance, the single-exponential fit for the kinesin-3 unloaded duration was 2.74 s (2.33 – 3.17 s 95% CI) and the estimate from the Markov model was 2.76 (2.28 – 3.34 s 95% CI). Thus, we chose not to make any corrections due to finite microtubule lengths.

      (10) It is not clear what is seen in Figure S6A: It looks like only single motors (green, w/o a DNA molecule) are walking ... Note: the influence of the attached DNA onto the stepping duration of a motor may depend on the DNA conformation (stretched and near to the microtubule (with neutravidin!) in the tethered case and spherically coiled in the untethered case).

      In Figure S6A kymograph, the green traces are GFP-labeled kinesin-1 without DNA attached (which are in excess) and the red diagonal trace is a motor with DNA attached. There are also two faint horizontal red traces, which are labeled DNA diffusing by (smearing over a large area during a single frame). Panel S6B shows run durations of motors with DNA attached. We agree that the DNA conformation will differ if it is attached and stretched (more linear) versus simply being transported (random coil), but by its nature this control experiment is only addressing random coil DNA.

      (11) Along this line: While the run time of kinesin-1 with DNA (1.4 s) is significantly shorter than the stall time (3.0 s), it is still larger than the unloaded run time (1.0 s). What do the authors think is the origin of this increase?

      Our interpretation of the unloaded kinesin-DNA result is that the much slower diffusion constant of the DNA relative to the motor alone enables motors to transiently detach and rebind before the DNA cargo has diffused away, thus extending the run duration. In contrast, such detachment events for motors alone normally result in the motor diffusing away from the microtubule, terminating the run. This argument has been used to reconcile the longer single-motor run lengths in the gliding assay versus the bead assay (Block et al., 1990). Notably, this slower diffusion constant should not play a role in the DNA tensiometer geometry because if the motor transiently detaches, then it will be pulled backward by the elastic forces of the DNA and detected as a slip or detachment event. We will address this point in the revision.

      (12) "The simplest prediction is that against the low loads experienced during ramps, the detachment rate should match the unloaded detachment rate." I disagree. I would already expect a slight increase.

      Agreed. We will change this text to: “The prediction for a slip bond is that against the low loads experienced during ramps, the detachment rate should be equal to or faster than the unloaded detachment rate.”

      (13) Isn't the model over-defined by fitting the values for the load-dependence of the strong-to-weak transition and fitting the load dependence into the transition to the slip state?

      Essentially, yes, it is overdefined, but that is essentially by design and it is still very useful. Our goal here was to make as simple a model as possible that could account for the data and use it to compare model parameters for the different motor families. Ignoring the complexity of the slip and detached states, a model with a strong and weak state in the stepping cycle and a single transition out of the stepping cycle is the simplest formulation possible. And having rate constants (k<sub>S-W</sub> and k<sub>slip</sub> in our case) that vary exponentially with load makes thermodynamic sense for modeling mechanochemistry (Howard, 2001). Thus, we were pleasantly surprised that this bare-bones model could recapitulate the unloaded and stall durations for all three motors (Fig. 5C-E).

      (14) "When kinesin-1 was tethered to a glass coverslip via a DNA linker and hydrodynamic forces were imposed on an associated microtubule, kinesin-1 dissociation rates were relatively insensitive to loads up to ~3 pN, inconsistent with slip-bond characteristics (37)." This statement appears not to be true. In reference 37, very similar to the geometry reported here, the microtubules were fixed on the surface, and the stepping of single kinesin motors attached to large beads (to which defined forces were applied by hydrodynamics) via long DNA linkers was studied. In fact, quite a number of statements made in the present manuscript have been made already in ref. 37 (see in particular sections 2.6 and 2.7), and the authors may consider putting their results better into this context in the Introduction and Discussion. It is also noteworthy to discuss that the (admittedly limited) data in ref. 37 does not indicate a "catch-bond" behavior but rather an insensitivity to force over a defined range of forces.

      The reviewer misquoted our sentence. The actual wording of the sentence was: “When kinesin-1 was connected to micron-scale beads through a DNA linker and hydrodynamic forces parallel to the microtubule imposed, dissociation rates were relatively insensitive to loads up to ~3 pN, inconsistent with slip-bond characteristics (Urbanska et al., 2021).” The sentence the reviewer quoted was in a previous version that is available on BioRxiv and perhaps they were reading that version. Nonetheless, in the revision we will note in the Discussion that this behavior was indicative of an ideal bond (not a catch-bond), and we will also add a sentence in the Introduction highlighting this work.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      The authors attribute the differences in the behaviour of kinesins when pulling against a DNA tether compared to an optical trap to the differences in the perpendicular forces. However, the compliance is also much different in these two experiments. The optical trap acts like a ~ linear spring with stiffness ~ 0.05 pN/nm. The dsDNA tether is an entropic spring, with negligible stiffness at low extensions and very high compliance once the tether is extended to its contour length (Fig. 1B). The effect of the compliance on the results should be addressed in the manuscript.

      This is an interesting point. To address it, we calculated the predicted stiffness of the dsDNA by taking the slope of theoretical force-extension curve in Fig. 1B. Below 650 nm extension, the stiffness is <0.001 pN/nM; it reaches 0.01 pN/nM at 855 nm, and at 960 nm where the force is 6 pN the stiffness is roughly 0.2 pN/nm. That value is higher than the quoted 0.05 pN/nm trap stiffness, but for reference, at this stiffness, an 8 nm step leads to a 1.6 pN jump in force, which is reasonable. Importantly, the stiffness of kinesin motors has been estimated to be in the range of 0.3 pN (Coppin et al., 1996; Coppin et al., 1997). Granted, this stiffness is also nonlinear, but what this means is that even at stall, our dsDNA tether has a similar predicted compliance to the motor that is pulling on it. We will address this point in our revision.  

      Compared to an optical trapping assay, the motors are also tethered closer to the microtubule in this geometry. In an optical trap assay, the bead could rotate when the kinesin is not bound. The authors should discuss how this tethering is expected to affect the kinesin reattachment and slipping. While likely outside the scope of this study, it would be interesting to compare the static tether used here with a dynamic tether like MAP7 or the CAP-GLY domain of p150glued.

      Please see our response to Reviewer #2 Major Comment #4 above, which asks this same question in the context of intracellular cargo. We plan to address this in our revision. Regarding a dynamic tether, we agree that’s interesting – there are kinesins that have a second, non-canonical binding site that achieves this tethering (ncd and Cin8); p150glued likely does this naturally for dynein-dynactin-activator complexes; and we speculated in a review some years ago (Hancock, 2014) that during bidirectional transport kinesin and dynein may act as dynamic tethers for one another when not engaged, enhancing the activity of the opposing motor.

      In the single-molecule extension traces (Figure 1F-H; S3), the kinesin-2 traces often show jumps in position at the beginning of runs (e.g., the four runs from ~4-13 s in Fig. 1G). These jumps are not apparent in the kinesin-1 and -3 traces. What is the explanation? Is kinesin-2 binding accelerated by resisting loads more strongly than kinesin-1 and -3?

      Due to the compliance of the dsDNA, the 95% limits for the initial attachment position are +/- 290 nm (Fig. S2). Thus, some apparent ‘jumps’ from the detached state are expected. We will take a closer look at why there are jumps for kinesin-2 that aren’t apparent for kinesin-1 or -3.

      When comparing the durations of unloaded and stall events (Fig. 2), there is a potential for bias in the measurement, where very long unloaded runs cannot be observed due to the limited length of the microtubule (Thompson, Hoeprich, and Berger, 2013), while the duration of tethered runs is only limited by photobleaching. Was the possible censoring of the results addressed in the analysis?

      Yes. Please see response to Reviewer #2 points (8) and (9) above.

      The mathematical model is helpful in interpreting the data. To assess how the "slip" state contributes to the association kinetics, it would be helpful to compare the proposed model with a similar model with no slip state. Could the slips be explained by fast reattachments from the detached state?

      In the model, the slip state and the detached states are conceptually similar; they only differ in the sequence (slip to detached) and the transition rates into and out of them. The simple answer is: yes, the slips could be explained by fast reattachments from the detached state. In that case, the slip state and recovery could be called a “detached state with fast reattachment kinetics”. However, the key data for defining the kinetics of the slip and detached states is the distribution of Recovery times shown in Fig. 4D-F, which required a triple exponential to account for all of the data. If we simplified the model by eliminating the slip state and incorporating fast reattachment from a single detached state, then the distribution of Recovery times would be a single-exponential with a time constant equivalent to t<sub>1</sub>, which would be a poor fit to the experimental distributions in Fig. 4D-F.

      We appreciate the efforts and helpful suggestions of all three reviewers and the Editor.

      References:

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      Bouchiat, C., M.D. Wang, J. Allemand, T. Strick, S.M. Block, and V. Croquette. 1999. Estimating the persistence length of a worm-like chain molecule from force-extension measurements. Biophys J. 76:409-413.

      Coppin, C.M., J.T. Finer, J.A. Spudich, and R.D. Vale. 1996. Detection of sub-8-nm movements of kinesin by high-resolution optical-trap microscopy. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 93:1913-1917.

      Coppin, C.M., D.W. Pierce, L. Hsu, and R.D. Vale. 1997. The load dependence of kinesin's mechanical cycle. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 94:8539-8544.

      Ezber, Y., V. Belyy, S. Can, and A. Yildiz. 2020. Dynein Harnesses Active Fluctuations of Microtubules for Faster Movement. Nat Phys. 16:312-316.

      Hancock, W.O. 2014. Bidirectional cargo transport: moving beyond tug of war. Nat Rev Mol Cell Biol. 15:615-628.

      Howard, J. 2001. Mechanics of Motor Proteins and the Cytoskeleton. Sinauer Associates, Inc., Sunderland, MA. 367 pp.

      Kunwar, A., S.K. Tripathy, J. Xu, M.K. Mattson, P. Anand, R. Sigua, M. Vershinin, R.J. McKenney, C.C. Yu, A. Mogilner, and S.P. Gross. 2011. Mechanical stochastic tug-of-war models cannot explain bidirectional lipid-droplet transport. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 108:18960-18965.

      Kuo, Y.W., M. Mahamdeh, Y. Tuna, and J. Howard. 2022. The force required to remove tubulin from the microtubule lattice by pulling on its alpha-tubulin C-terminal tail. Nature communications. 13:3651.

      Laakso, J.M., J.H. Lewis, H. Shuman, and E.M. Ostap. 2008. Myosin I can act as a molecular force sensor. Science. 321:133-136.

      Leidel, C., R.A. Longoria, F.M. Gutierrez, and G.T. Shubeita. 2012. Measuring molecular motor forces in vivo: implications for tug-of-war models of bidirectional transport. Biophys J. 103:492-500.

      Marko, J.F., and E.D. Siggia. 1995. Stretching DNA. Macromolecules. 28:8759-8770.

      Nicholas, M.P., F. Berger, L. Rao, S. Brenner, C. Cho, and A. Gennerich. 2015. Cytoplasmic dynein regulates its attachment to microtubules via nucleotide state-switched mechanosensing at multiple AAA domains. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 112:6371-6376.

      Purcell, E.M. 1977. Life at low Reynolds Number. Amer J. Phys. 45:3-11.

      Pyrpassopoulos, S., H. Shuman, and E.M. Ostap. 2020. Modulation of Kinesin's Load-Bearing Capacity by Force Geometry and the Microtubule Track. Biophys J. 118:243-253.

      Rai, A.K., A. Rai, A.J. Ramaiya, R. Jha, and R. Mallik. 2013. Molecular adaptations allow dynein to generate large collective forces inside cells. Cell. 152:172-182.

      Ramaiya, A., B. Roy, M. Bugiel, and E. Schaffer. 2017. Kinesin rotates unidirectionally and generates torque while walking on microtubules. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 114:10894-10899.

      Rao, L., F. Berger, M.P. Nicholas, and A. Gennerich. 2019. Molecular mechanism of cytoplasmic dynein tension sensing. Nature communications. 10:3332.

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    1. Author Response:

      eLife Assessment

      The nematode C. elegans is an ideal model in which to achieve the ambitious goal of a genome-wide atlas of protein expression and localization. In this paper, the authors explore the utility of a new and efficient method for labeling proteins with fluorescent tags, evaluating its potential to be the basis for a larger, genome-wide effort that is likely to be very useful for the community. While the evidence for the method itself is solid, carrying out this project at a large scale will require significant additional feasibility studies.

      We appreciate the editor’s recognition that the evidence for our method is solid and that a genome-wide protein atlas in C. elegans would be highly valuable to the community. However, we respectfully disagree that significant additional feasibility studies are required. As comparison, the yeast proteome-wide GFP tagging project (Huh et al., Nature 2003) achieved ~75% coverage of ~6,000 proteins directly from an established protocol without any prior significant feasibility studies, at least to our knowledge. While the C. elegans genome is 3 times in size, we would argue that our tagging protocol may even be less labor intensive as it does not involve any cloning and the screening is visual, requiring no molecular biology skills. Reviewer 3 notes: “They also provide convincing evidence that labelling the whole proteome is an achievable goal with relatively limited resources and time.”

      Our pilot study validates all key parameters for genome-wide scaling: editing efficiency at novel loci with untested reagents, viability of tagged worms, and detectability of multiple spectrally separated fluorophores across expression ranges. These address the core technical, biological, and practical challenges of large-scale endogenous tagging in a multicellular organism, leaving no fundamental barriers in our view.

      The proposed cost and timeline align quite favorably with established large-scale consortium projects: e.g., ENCODE pilot analyzed 1% of the human genome at ~$55 million over 4 years; Mouse Knockout Consortium scaled to ~20,000 genes over 20 years (ongoing) with ~$100 million; Human Protein Atlas mapped ~87% of proteins with antibodies in fixed cells (through much more labor intensive methods) over 20+ years at >$100 million. With ~8% of C. elegans genes already tagged (WormTagDB), scaling our protocol to the proteome is feasible, potentially covering the genome in 5-6 years by a single lab or faster with distributed effort at a reagent cost of merely $2.2 million. The main barriers now are funding commitment and assembling collaborators, not further feasibility testing.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Eroglu and Hobert demonstrate that injecting CRISPR guides and repair constructs to target three genes at a time, tagging each with a different fluorescent protein, and selecting which gene to tag with which fluorophore based on genes' expression levels, can improve the efficiency of gene tagging.

      Strengths:

      This manuscript demonstrates that three genes can be targeted efficiently with three different fluorophores. It also presents some practical considerations, like using the fluorophore least complicated by agar/worm autofluorescence for genes with low expression levels, and cost calculations if the same methods were used on all genes.

      Weaknesses:

      Eroglu has demonstrated in a previous publication that single-stranded DNA injection can increase the efficiency of CRISPR in C. elegans while inserting two fluorescent proteins and a co-CRISPR marker into three loci. The current work is, therefore, an incremental advance. In general, I applaud the authors' willingness to think ahead to how whole proteome tagging might be accomplished, but I predict that the advance here will be one of many small advances that will get the field to that goal.

      Our manuscript indeed builds on prior multiplex editing (including our own co-CRISPR work), but the manuscript's primary contribution is not a novel technical breakthrough per se. Instead, our main goal was to pilot and strategize a feasible path to whole-proteome tagging in C. elegans and importantly test the following key parameters: (1) success rate of triple pools with prior untested reagents at novel targets; (2) utility of fluorophores across expression levels; (3) major effects on tagged protein function. In prior multiplexing, we used two targets which we already knew could be edited quite efficiently, with the 3rd target a point mutation with nearly 100% efficiency. Thus, it was not at all clear that picking 3 random genes and replacing the 3rd highly efficient locus with another less efficient large insertion would work or be sufficiently scalable for thousands of novel genes with unvalidated reagents at first pass.

      The title vastly oversells the advance in my view, and the first sentence of the Discussion seems a more apt summary of the key advance here.

      Some injections target genes on the same chromosome together, which will create unnecessary issues when doing necessary backcrossing, especially if the mutation rate is increased by CRISPR.

      We disagree with the reviewer’s assessment of the need for backcrossing, for two reasons: (1) Prior studies have shown that off-target mutations are not a serious concern in C. elegans (reviewed in PMID: 26336798 and PMID: 24685391). For instance, WGS of strains after CRISPR/Cas9 found negligible off-target effects (PMID: 25249454, PMID: 30420468 – using similar RNP/ssDNA method and multiple guides; PMID: 23979577, PMID: 27650892 using other methods). Targeted sequencing studies have reported similar findings, using various CRISPR/Cas9 methods, with essentially no mutations at sites other than the intended target (PMID: 23995389; PMID: 23817069). (2) If the goal is to tag the entire genome, the introduction of backcrossing should not reasonably be a routine part of the initial tagging.

      Lastly, if one wants to backcross at a later stage, the existence of tags on the same chromosome is actually an advantage because it permits selection for recombinants with wild-type chromosomes.

      Also, the need for backcrossing and perhaps sequencing made me wonder if injecting 3 together really is helpful vs targeting each gene separately, since only 5 worms need to be injected.

      Apart from our disagreement regarding backcrossing, we are puzzled by the reviewer’s comment that tagging each gene separately may not be considered helpful. Why would one do single tagging at a time, rather than triple tagging if the whole point of the paper is to demonstrate the scalability of tagging? Meaning, that one can shortcut tagging all genes by a factor of 3 through joint tagging? It is important to keep in mind that the rate limiting step for tagging the whole genome is the number of injections that can be done per day. Since there is no cloning to generate the repair templates/guides and all other reagents are commercially available and not sample specific, these can be prepared quite rapidly. Being able to isolate multiple lines (together or independently) from the same injection increases throughput 3-fold and in our view does not provide any disadvantages as individual tags can be isolated independently if desired.

      Beyond the numerous technical advantages pooling provides (also lower cost and throughput for making injection mixes as well as imaging), our results show that it yields epistemic benefits as well: we would never have noted the subcellular pattern in Fig. 6B, C with different sets of mitochondria being marked by different mitochondrial proteins had we imaged them separately or even aligned to a pan-mitochondrial landmark. As we mentioned in the discussion, grouping proteins predicted to localize to the same compartment together can simultaneously test how uniform or differentiated such compartments are during the screen.

      The limited utility of current blue fluorescent proteins makes me wonder if it's worth using at all at this stage, before there are better blue (or far red) fluorescent proteins.

      We do not think that the utility of current BFPs is very limiting. The theoretical brightness of mTagBFP2 is comparable to that of EGFP (PMID: 30886412), which was useful for the bulk of currently tagged proteins. Due to modestly higher autofluorescence in the blue spectrum, the practical brightness is somewhat less ideal, but we have shown that many proteins are expressed high enough to be detected quite well with mTagBFP2 by eye at low magnification. We also note that many tags that are not visible by eye under a dissection scope become visible with long exposure cameras of widefield microscopes or modern confocal (GaAsP) detectors, so the list of genes detectable with mTagBFP2 is likely to be much higher. We routinely use mTagBFP2 to super-resolve subnuclear structures with endogenous tags (e.g., in the nucleolus), with some tags having lower annotated FPKMs than the genes tested here.

      Some literature reviews, particularly in the Introduction and Abstract, rely too much on recent examples from the authors' laboratory instead of presenting the state of the field. I'd like to have known what exactly has been done with simultaneous injection targeting multiple loci more thoroughly, comparing what has been accomplished to date by various laboratories' advances to date.

      We are not sure what the reviewer is referring to when bemoaning that the Abstract and Introduction are too focused on our paper and not presenting the state of the field. In the Abstract, we do not refer to any literature. In the Introduction, we cite 28 papers, 6 of those from our lab (4 of which providing examples of protein tags). We do not believe that this can be fairly called an unbalanced presentation of the state of the field.

      This being said, we will gladly expand our Introduction to provide more background on co-CRISPRing. Labs have routinely used co-conversion (“coCRISPR”) markers for picking out their intended edits (e.g., point mutations or insertions), as it has been shown by multiple groups that a CRISPR/Cas9 edit at one locus correlates with efficiency at other simultaneous targets (PMID: 25161212). Generally, making point mutations with the Cas9/RNP protocol is highly efficient, especially at specific loci such as dpy-10. However, multiple FP-sized insertions have not been routinely attempted. We and only one other group have successfully attempted it using previously working targets and reagents (e.g., 28% in PMID: 26187122). Importantly, the efficiency of such multiple insertions has never been assessed at scale and using entirely untested reagents at novel sites – critical parameters to determine for a whole genome approach. So, we test here (1) the efficiency of triple insertions and (2) the chance of getting them with new and untested guides and reagents.

      In our view, since we have to use some injection/coCRISPR marker anyway for those genes which are not expressed at dissecting-scope visible levels (likely most genes), using highly expressed intended targets as improvised markers in a pooled approach makes our approach much more efficient. It allows us to find the worms with the highest chance of yielding CRISPR insertions, which we can screen with higher power methods for the dimmer targets, while enabling us to co-isolate other intended targets. Insertions, being often heterozygous in F1, can be segregated independently if desired, or homozygosed together to facilitate maintenance then outcrossed individually by those interested in studying specific genes in more detail.

      In the revised version of this manuscript, we will discuss some of these points in the first paragraph of the results section:

      “In C. elegans, screening for novel CRISPR/Cas9-induced genomic edits is facilitated either by use of co-injection markers (i.e., plasmids that form extrachromosomal arrays) that yield phenotypes or fluorescence in progeny of successfully injected worms, or co-editing well characterized loci using established and highly efficient reagents which likewise yield visible phenotypes. In the latter approach, termed “co-CRISPR”, worms edited at the marker locus are most likely to also carry the intended edit (Arribere et al., 2014).”

      “These attempts pooled reagents previously established to work efficiently and targeted genes that were known to yield functional fusion proteins when tagged. Thus, while in principle current methods could allow tagging of at least 3 independent loci in one injection if a co-CRISPR marker is omitted, it is not known to what extent such an approach could be generalized across the genome with previously unvalidated reagents (i.e., guides and repair template homology arms) at novel loci.”

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      The manuscript by Eroglu and Hobert presents a set of strains each harboring up to three fluorescently tagged endogenous proteins. While there is technically nothing wrong with the method and the images are beautiful, we struggled to appreciate the advance of this work - who is this paper for?

      We consider this paper to have two purposes: (1) motivate the community to come together to consider such genome-wide tagging approach; (2) provide a reference point for funding agencies that such an aim is not unreasonable and will provide novel interesting insights.

      As a technical method, the advance is minimal since the first author had already demonstrated that three mutations (fluorophore insertion and co-CRISPR marker) could be introduced simultaneously.

      We agree that the basic principle is similar. However, it was not clear that triple pooling three novel large edits would work, given the numbers in our original paper or that it would be scalable.

      The dpy-10 coCRISPR marker previously used is a highly efficient single site, with close to 100% hit rate. We also knew in the earlier study that the two pooled insertions already worked quite efficiently and did not disrupt the function of targeted proteins. Exchanging these plus dpy-10 for three novel tags was not guaranteed to succeed for many potential reasons, including both biological and technical. For instance, such a “marker free” approach necessitates that a significant number of targets in the genome should be expressed highly enough to be visible by fluorescence stereomicroscopy when tagged with current best fluorophores. The chance of disrupting gene function by tagging was also not explored in detail in C. elegans, nor whether one untested guide is generally sufficient. We think that establishing these parameters was meaningful and necessary for the goal of whole genome tagging. We have clarified some of these points in the text.

      As a pilot for creating genome-scale resources, it is not clear whether three different fluorophores in one animal, while elegantly designed and implemented, will be desired by the broader community.

      The usage of three different fluorophores is largely driven by the ability to co-inject and therefore cut injection effort by a factor of three. Moreover, having all three fluorophores together facilitates imaging and maintenance. Lastly, co-labeling has the potential to reveal unexpected patterns of co-localization or lack thereof (example: two mitochondrial proteins that we found to not have overlapping distribution). We clarified this point in the revised text in both the results and discussion.

      Finally, the interpretation of the patterns observed in the created lines is somewhat lacking. A Table with all the observations must be included. This can replace the descriptions of the observations with the different lines, which could be somewhat laborious for the reader, and are often wrong. There are numerous mistaken expectations of protein expression here, but two examples include:

      We are not convinced that expectations are mistaken. Below we respond to the reviewer’s specific examples and we are open to hear from the reviewer about additional cases.

      (1) The expectation that ACDH-10 is enriched in the intestine and epidermal tissues (hypodermis).

      There are multiple paralogs of this protein (see WormPaths or WormFlux) that may share functions in different tissues. There is also no reason to assume that fatty acid metabolism does not occur in other tissues (including the germline). Finally, there are no published studies about this enzyme, so we really don't know for sure what it's doing.

      The expression of acdh-10 is annotated in multiple scRNA datasets as intestine and epidermal enriched (Packer et al 2019, highest intestine and hyp; Ghaddar et al 2023 intestine, sheath and BWM, and even oocyte). We did not mean to imply that fatty acid metabolism does not occur in the gonad, nor that a paralog of acdh-10 could not be performing the same function in tissues where acdh-10 is not expressed.

      However, this raises an important question: why have different paralogs doing the same thing? Duplicate genes with the same function are generally not evolutionarily stable (PMID: 11073452, PMID: 24659815). That there are such striking tissue specific expression patterns of an essential or widely expressed protein class suggests that paralogs of the gene likely differ in some meaningful parameter that might align with tissue-specific functional needs or regulation. The reviewer’s statement that “there are no published studies about this enzyme, so we really don't know for sure what it's doing” is in fact an excellent demonstration of our point; finding out where the duplicates are expressed can provide a starting point to uncover potential differences between the paralogs. At the very least it can delineate to what degree paralogs diverge in their expression across the proteome and identify which such cases merit further study. In a more ideal scenario, prior information of protein function could indicate that the involved pathway requires tissue specific regulation.

      (2) The expectation that HXK-1 is ubiquitously expressed.

      Three paralogous enzymes are all associated with the same reaction, and we have shown that these three function redundantly in vivo, perhaps in different tissues (PMID: 40011787).

      The cited paper (PMID: 40011787) does not show where they are expressed. We discussed redundancy/paralogs above in point 1, and in our view the same applies here. They may perform the same reaction but are likely to differ in some meaningful way, be it regulation or rate of activity, for them to be stably maintained as functional genes over evolution.

      Moreover, single-cell RNA-seq data (PMID: 38816550) also show enrichment of hxk-1 in gonadal sheath cells.

      We note that the Ghaddar et al. and CeNGEN/Taylor et al. datasets do not. The scRNA paper cited by the referee (PMID: 38816550) also shows enrichment in neurons and pharynx, which we did not note. In our view, these in fact further support our goals: often, transcript datasets alone (frequently used to infer tissue function) do not sufficiently predict protein expression. One can post hoc find an scRNA-seq dataset that aligns somewhat with our protein observations, but how does one know which to trust a priori? Disagreements between transcript datasets will ultimately require resolution at the protein level, in our view.

      To clarify these points, we will add the following to the discussion section:

      “We also noted unexpected cell type dependent distributions of proteins involved in broadly important metabolic processes such as ACDH-10, which was depleted from the germline compared to other tissues, and HXK-1, which was highly enriched in the gonadal sheath. Notably, for these as well as other cases, scRNA-seq datasets were not sufficient to deduce a priori the observed cell type specific differences at the protein level. Importantly, many genes encoding metabolic enzymes including acdh-10 and hxk-1 have paralogs that likely perform similar catalytic functions. Yet, duplicate genes with identical functions are generally not evolutionarily stable (Adler et al., 2014; Lynch and Conery, 2000); thus such genes are likely to differ in some meaningful parameter (e.g., regulation or activity) that might align with tissue-specific functional needs. Fully annotating the expression patterns of paralogs at the protein level could indicate which tissues require unique metabolic needs and indicate which paralogous genes have undergone sub- versus neo-functionalization. For those proteins that are less functionally understood, unexpected distributions might indicate which merit further study.”

      The table should have at least the following information: gene/protein name - Wormbase ID - TPM levels of single cell data assigned to tissues for L2, L4, and adult (all published) - tissues in which expression is observed in the lines presented by the authors.

      We will add this information to the table including annotated expression levels in young adults from various datasets (but not larval datasets as we did not image these). We note that each of these studies use different pipelines and report different metrics (scaled TPM/Z-score versus Seurat average expression versus TPM), so comparisons between them are not informative unless they are integrated and analyzed together.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors argue that establishing the expression pattern and subcellular localisation of an animal's proteome will highlight many hypotheses for further study. To make this point and show feasibility, they developed a pipeline to knock in DNA encoding fluorescent tags into C. elegans genes.

      Strengths:

      The authors effectively make the points above. For example, they provide evidence of two populations of mitochondria in the C. elegans germline that differ qualitatively in the proteins they express. They also provide convincing evidence that labelling the whole proteome is an achievable goal with relatively limited resources and time.

      We are grateful for the referee’s appreciation that whole proteome tagging is feasible.

      Weaknesses:

      Cell biology in C. elegans is challenging because of the small size of many of its cells, notably neurons. This can make establishing the sub-cellular localisation of a fluorescently tagged protein, or co-localizing it with another protein, tricky. The authors point out in their introduction that advances in light microscopy, such as diSPIM, STED, and ISM (a close relative of SIM), have increased the resolution of light microscopy. They also point out that recent advances in expansion microscopy can similarly help overcome the resolution limit.

      (1) Have the authors investigated if the three fluorescent tags they use are appropriate for super-resolution microscopy of C. elegans, e.g., STED or SIM? Would Elektra be better than mTAGBFP2? How does mScarlet3-S2 compare to mScarlet 3?

      All three tags work for ISM (i.e., Airyscan). We previously tried Electra (not for the genes tested here) but could not isolate positive tags. Given Electra is not that much brighter on paper than mTagBFP2 we did not pursue it further, though we recognize that these may simply have been unlucky injections. mScarlet3-S2 is quite a bit dimmer than mScarlet3 on paper – the advantage is that it has higher photostability. In our view, the limiting factor will be having FPs that are bright enough to screen, image and scale to the whole genome, so brightness will likely provide an advantage over photostability at this stage.

      (2) Have the authors investigated what tags could be used in expansion microscopy - that is, which retain antigenicity or even fluorescence after the protocol is applied? It may be useful to add different epitope tags to the knock-in cassettes for this purpose.

      mSG and mSc3 retain fluorescence after fixing with formaldehyde. We have not tested mTagBFP2 fluorescence in fixed worms. We agree that adding different epitope tags would be useful.

      The paper is fine as it stands. The experiments above could add value to it and future-proof it, but are not essential. If the experiments are not attempted, the authors could refer to the points above in the discussion.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

      This manuscript describes the pattern of relaxed selection observed at spermatogenesis genes in gorillas, presumably due to the low sperm competition associated with single-male polygyny. The analyses to detect patterns of selection are very thorough, as are the follow-up analyses to characterize the function of these genes. Furthermore, the authors take the extra steps of in vivo determination of function with a Drosophila model.

      This is an excellent paper. It addresses the interesting phenomenon of relaxation of selection as a genomic signal of reproductive strategies using multiple computational approaches and follow-up analyses by pulling in data from GO, mouse knockouts, human infertility database, and even Drosophila RNAi experiments. I really appreciate the comprehensive and creative approach to analyze and explore the data. As far as I can tell, the analyses were performed soundly and statistics are appropriate. The Introduction and Discussion sections are thoughtful and well-written. I have no major criticisms of the manuscript.

      We thank you for your kind words!

      The main area that I would suggest for improvement is in the "Caveats and Limitations" section of the Discussion. Currently, the first paragraph of this section states the obvious that genetic manipulation of gorillas is not feasible. Beyond a reminder to the reader that this was a rationale for the Drosophila work, it isn't really adding much insight. The second paragraph is a brief discussion of the directionality of change. I think it comes across as overly simplistic, with a sort of "well, we can never know" feel. Obviously, there are plenty of researchers who do model change to infer direction and causation, and there are plenty of published papers attempting to do so with respect to mating systems in primates.

      We understand these statements might seem trivial, but they are meant to fully acknowledge, particularly to non-evolutionary biologists, the fact that we can’t do the genetics to “prove” these putatively deleterious mutations really are so (hence the statement about forward/reverse genetic experiments), nor causation (since this mating system evolved once in the history of gorillas we cannot know directionality in this lineage, although we could infer it if we had species in which different stages were extant, for example).”

      I do not think the authors need to remove these paragraphs, but I do encourage them to turn the "Caveats and Limitations" section into something more meaningful by addressing limitations of the work that was actually done rather than limitations of hypothetical things that were not done. A few areas come to mind. First, the authors should discuss the effect of gene-tree vs species-tree inconsistencies in the analyses, which could affect the identification of gorilla-specific amino acid changes and/or the dN/dS estimates. Incomplete lineage sorting is very common in primates including the gorilla-chimp-human splits (Rivas-González et al. 2023). It would be nice to hear the authors' thoughts on how that might affect their analyses. Second, the dN/dS-based analyses assume the neutrality of synonymous substitutions. Of course, that assumption is not completely true; it might be true enough, and the authors should at least note it as a caveat. Third, and potentially related, is the consideration that these protein-coding genes may be functioning in other ways such as via antisense transcription. The genes under relaxed selection may be on their way to becoming pseudogenes and evolving as such at the sequence level, but many pseudogenes continue to be transcribed sense or anti-sense in a regulatory purpose. I don't think there is a way to incorporate this into the authors' analyses but it would be nice to see it acknowledged as a caveat or limitation.

      We thank you for the helpful suggestion and have added a discussion of these issues in the reworked Caveats and limitations section (lines 639 - 710).

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for The Authors):

      This is an excellent paper with thorough and creative approaches to address an interesting connection between genotype and phenotype. Stylistically the paper is very well written.

      We thank you for your kind words.

      Page 3: I suggest deleting the word "vaginal" so the sentence reads "... the evolution of female traits such as anatomical features that allow female control...". Most of the well-documented examples of cryptic female choice are in animals that do not have vaginas like insects, fish, and birds, including the reference given at the end of the sentence (Brennan et al. 2007 on waterfowl).

      We agree and have made this edit.

      Page 3: I would delete the words "multimale-multifemale" when discussing gorillas, to make the sentence read "Most gorillas, for example, live in groups with age-graded...". The use of "multimale-multifemale" here is not exactly wrong, but can be confusing to the reader since the authors essentially use "multimale-multifemale" as a synonym for "polygamous" in the previous paragraph.

      We agree and have made this edit.

      The writing in the Materials and Methods fluctuates between present and past tense. The authors should pick a consistent style, probably past tense by convention.

      We have edited the Materials and Methods only to use past tense.

      "Drosophila" is italicized sometimes, but not sometimes not. Make consistent.

      To ensure consistency, italics were used only when genus and species were shown together (i.e., Drosophila melanogaster).

      In the main text, a few reference typos/confusions:

      Box 1, Figure 1B caption: I believe this "Dixson, n.d." reference should be Dixson (2009), if it refers to the book (Oxford Press).

      Yes, that is the case. Thank you for having spotted this. The reference has been corrected.

      Page 21: The authors use the term "false exons" and "fake exons" in the same paragraph. Are these the same thing? If so, just use "false exons" both times.

      These are the same, we have changed fake to false.

      Page 22-23, maybe elsewhere: The Smith et al. reference includes Martin's first name.

      Thank you for bringing this issue to our attention. The reference has been corrected.

      Page 25: in the parenthetical listing of scientific species names, the word "and" should not be italicized. In this same section, there's really no reason to include "gorilla" as the subspecies. It isn't given for the other species.

      Corrected.

      Page 27: Missing period in the second paragraph after "(Guyonnet et al. 2012)".

      Corrected.

      Page 29: Should read "... available in gnomAD that would allow us to exclude..." (or possibly "... available in gnomAD that would allow the exclusion of ...").

      Corrected.

      Page 33, figure legend off Appendix Figure 1A: "gray line" not "gray liner".

      Corrected.

      Box 1, Figure 1A: This is confusing in a few ways. First, the gorilla red dot is labeled "Gorilla", but the chimpanzee and bonobo dots are not labeled. Perhaps in the legend the colors could be indicated, such as "... percentage of body mass for gorilla (red), common chimpanzee (dark blue), and bonobo (light blue)"? Secondly, the bar chart shows the testes/body mass ratio but it is not clear what they are scaled to. Should there be a second y-axis on the right side of the plot?

      The bar chart showed the testis weight/body weight ratio (log), but it is not really necessary. We have removed the bar chart and labeled chimpanzees and gorillas.

      Figure 1D: I found myself confused by the vertical label of "Percent of genes with w>1 in Gorilla". Because all genes are in the stacked histogram, my first thought was that ~99% of the genes have w>1 (gray). Would be more clear if the label was the same as 1G ("Percent of genes").

      We agree and have made this change.

      The text in the figures is extremely small. I don't know what it will look like once it is fully formatted for publication, so I'll leave those concerns to the editor/publisher.

      We will wait until the proofs to determine if this figure needs to be split into multiple figures with larger text.

      References in the reference section need a LOT of cleaning up. It does not appear that any manual editing was done. Please check for consistency in capitalization, italicization, abbreviations, missing information, etc. The level of neglect to this section is frankly unprofessional.

      I (VJL) apologize for this; it is entirely my fault. To explain but not justify, I have dyslexia, and the shifting combination of text, numbers, punctuation, fonts, and font styles makes it difficult to see the inconsistencies. To mitigate this, I use a reference manager to format references (like everyone else) and almost always have someone proofread the reference section, but I didn’t do that with this manuscript. I apologize for the oversight. My dedicated co-authors have cleaned the reference section.

      Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

      As outlined in the public review, this is a nicely executed molecular evolutionary study. The analyses and overall patterns described in gorillas appear rigorous and convincing. The fundamental limitation here is a lack of comparative context to specifically establish the connection to mating system or the uniqueness of these overall patterns to gorillas.

      We thank the reviewer for the compliments. However, there is some confusion about the hypothesis we tested. We hypothesized that genes involved in male reproductive biology would have relaxed selective constraints in gorillas because of their mating system, not that polygynous mating systems would lead to relaxed selection. While that may be true, it is not the hypothesis we tested, nor do we state that the overall pattern we observe is unique to gorillas. Our data, however, support our claims: 1) We performed an unbiased selection scan in gorillas and identified genes with K<1, an evolutionary signature of reduced selection intensity; 2) We found that those genes were enriched for male reproductive functions; and 3) Some of those genes had effects on male reproduction in both Drosophila screens and in infertile men. These are the results one would expect if our hypothesis were true.

      To partly address the concern that our results do not have a connection to mating systems or may be an overall pattern rather than a gorilla-specific one, we ran RELAX using the same dataset but in the elephant seal, another species with a highly polygynous mating system. Although elephant seals are a polygynous species, they differ from gorillas in that their spermatogenesis does not undergo persistent deterioration, but instead follows a seasonal pattern. According to the comprehensive study by Laws (The Elephant Seal (Mirounga Leonina Linn.): III. The physiology of reproduction; Scientific Reports, 15, Falkland Islands Dependencies Survey, 1956], male gamete production is upregulated during the mating season and is mostly inactive throughout the rest of the year. Of the 573 genes with K<1 in gorillas only 14 also have K<1 in elephant seals, which had 350 genes with K<1. A GO analysis of the 350 elephant seal K<1 genes does not identify enrichment in spermatogenesis-related terms. In fact, the list of GO terms is quite broad. A potential, if admittedly speculative, interpretation of these findings is that although polygynous, the selective pressure on elephant seal spermatogenesis is not relaxed (unlike in gorillas) because of the seasonal nature of their mating period. In other words, by having a temporally narrower window for reproductive success than gorillas, the selective constraint on male gametogenesis in seals is not weakened. Regardless, the low overlap in relaxed genes between the two tested polygynous species support the view that this reproductive strategy is probably associated with different evolutionary signatures in the genome (depending on the species), a likely reflection of the complex, nuanced and multi-factorial aspects of such strategies. We include this analysis in the Appendix (lines 1112 - 1132).

      While there is much that I like about the study and approach, this is a substantial shortcoming that really limits the significance of the, especially given that lineage specific patterns were also analyzed by Scally et al. (2012) over a decade ago.

      While Scally et al. (2012) reported the initial sequencing, assembly, and analyses of the gorilla genome, the method they used to characterize selective pressure on coding genes - the branch and branch-site model implemented in PAML - is misspecified to detect relaxed selection (PMID: 25540451). Under relaxed selection, the d<sub>N</sub>/d<sub>S</sub> of sites under purifying selection will move towards 1, the d<sub>N</sub>/d<sub>S</sub> of sites under positive selection will also move towards 1, and some sites will not experience a change in d<sub>N</sub>/d<sub>S</sub>. The PAML test used Scally et al. (2012) averages d<sub>N</sub>/d<sub>S</sub> across all sites, rather than having distinct rate categories for each of the three selection classes. A change in d<sub>N</sub>/d<sub>S</sub> toward 1 under the PAML model can arise because the strength of positive selection is weaker in the foreground lineage than the background lineage, even if there is still positive selection acting on some sites. Averaging across all sites also means there is little power to detect relaxed selection, even if it is relaxed selection. Furthermore, the PAML test used by Scally et al. (2012) is underpowered to detect relaxed selection because it depends on selective regimes in background species. Scally et al. (2012) also used six species, which underpowers their test of relaxation, because if one or more of those species experience an increase in their d<sub>N</sub>/d<sub>S</sub> rate, the background rate will increase giving the appearance of a decrease in the gorilla lineage even if its d<sub>N</sub>/d<sub>S</sub> rate has not changed. We elaborate on this in the Appendix section (lines 1036 - 1073). Finally the method implemented in PAML does not allow for synonymous rate variation across sites or multi-nucleotide mutations per codon, ignoring synonymous rate variation dramatically inflates the false positive rates in selection tests (PMID: 32068869) as does ignoring multi-nucleotide mutations (PMID: 29967485 and PMID: 37395787); we have added a discussion of these issues in our Caveats and limitations section (lines 683 - 710).

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for The Authors):

      Specific comments

      Framing: Overall, the connection between mating system is referred in variable levels of certainty, some appropriate, others overstated. The paper title uses 'coincident' which is appropriate, but also at odds with the stronger conclusions that are emphasized throughout. Elsewhere the phrasing is much stronger (abstract, discussion) implying a direct statistical association with mating system variation that has not been established. Elsewhere the term 'association' is used in the same manner, but in instances where a statistical association is tested and demonstrated (tests of enrichment, etc).

      We are unsure why the Reviewer considers our claims overstatements. The patterns of molecular evolution we found are ‘associated,’ and 'coincident with,' and we believe our results are ‘compelling’. Our tests for relaxed and positive selection are statistically associated with a polygynous social system which we a priori hypothesized. We have taken care to ensure a more consistent framing of this connection throughout the manuscript to avoid potential misinterpretations of causality.

      Page 7, elsewhere- It is essential to compare the reported patterns (percentage of relaxed genes in gorilla, patterns of enrichment, etc) to other primate lineages to identify if this number is enriched due to mating system or if these patterns are unusually for sperm genes across mammals. The implication here and throughout is that the specific pattern reflects specific aspects of gorilla mating biology, but this is never established. Additionally, it would be interesting to know the relative number of genes under positive selection across species (or across great apes).

      We agree that if we were using a PAML-like approach that these controls would be informative. But with the RELAX method the foreground K is compared to the background K, K only becomes significantly less than one if there is relaxing in the intensity of selection in the foreground. If these patterns were common to sperm genes across mammals the background and foreground K would not be significantly different. Our a priori hypothesis was that genes related to male reproductive biology would show evidence of a decrease in the intensity of selection (both positive and purifying), which we tested and found to be true. In this regard, we can conclude that the gorilla mating system is associated with patterns of molecular evolution in the species’ genome.

      While we too would find it interesting to know the relative number of genes under positive selection across species (or across great apes), that is not the study we performed and is beyond the scope of this one (and we only identified 96 genes that were positively selected in gorilla suggesting that few genes are positively selected across species).

      Page 8, bottom, elsewhere- "13,491 background set" elsewhere this is 13,310 (abstract). The number of genes here is different, and the set seems to change across multiple parts of the paper without explanation. This could be a simple typo, however, it may affect statistical analysis if the problem is widespread, especially when assessing enrichment of (presumably) small sets of genes.

      This is partly true and partly a typo. We generated 13,491 alignments, 13,310 of which had HUGO gene symbols. These 13,310 genes were used in all subsequent studies. We have re-written the text to clarify this point, and have added a statement: “We thus generated a dataset of 13,491 orthologous coding gene alignments from the genomes of 261 Eutherian mammals, corresponding to 62.7% of all protein-coding genes in the gorilla genome. Of the 13,491 alignments, 13,310 had an identifiable HUGO gene symbol and were used in all subsequent analyses (lines 158 - 162).”

      Related to this, it is difficult to determine how many genes these GO associations are based on. Even small numbers of genes can result in very significant results with these tests. How many genes are these associations based on? This connection is a key component of the overall narrative that changes in sperm competition have a large effect on genome-wide shifts.

      All analyses are based on the 13,310 genes with identifiable HUGO gene symbols, including over-representation analyses (ORA). Our dataset submitted with this manuscript includes these 13,310 genes (as well as the genes with K<1 and K>1). The number of genes used as the foreground is the 578 with K<1, these genes are given in Figure 1 – source data 3. The minimum number of genes annotated in a GO or pathway term was 3. While it is unlikely that statistically significant GO term enrichments result from a few genes annotating to each term, that scenario would produce small P-values, the false discovery rate would be high and readers can decide what false discovery they are willing to accept.

      How many of these 578 genes are plausibly related to reproduction? Apologies if I missed this detail, but Figure 3 does not convey this. Could you speak to this directly in the text and include a table or supplemental table of the GO terms to show the differences in enrichment between classes of genes, and counts per term?

      These data are included in Figure – 3 source data 1.

      One of the key results is the relative frequency of relaxed constraint versus positive selection. This is expected on some level as the form of recurrent positive directional selection detected with these models is usually relatively rare. However, it is not at all clear that it is rarer in gorillas versus other mammals, as implied.

      Our comparison of relaxed constraint to positive selection was to explore if more genes experienced one pattern of molecular evolution or the other within gorillas, we do not imply that it is rarer in gorillas than in other mammals.

      Likewise, I was wondering how the dataset itself may be biased toward this result. If I understand correctly, you are requiring very high levels of conservation (251/261 genes) for inclusion in the dataset, resulting in ~60% of all gorilla genes being included. Rapidly evolving genes that are targets of recurrent positive selection often also tend not be highly conserved across such a deep phylogenetic sample. It would be good to acknowledge this potential bias when implying meaning to the differences in relative rates of the two forms of selection.

      Our results are unlikely to be subject to this bias. The RELAX test relies on accurately estimating K in background lineages, which requires that we include as many species as possible. The tradeoff is a reduction in the number of genes included in the dataset due to evolutionary dynamics across a wide range of species. However, it's not that 40% of the genes are excluded because they are evolving so rapidly we cannot identify or align them, it mainly reflects the fact that we cannot identify the gene in 251 of the 261 species included in the dataset (due to gene loss, etc).

      Page 9 - The results here (and in Figure 3D) shows that relaxed genes are enriched broadly across spermatogenesis cell types except for Sertoli cells. But the Sertoli cells and a few non-significant cell types are the only thing to compare to. Instead, it would be interesting to identify single cell expression patterns from other tissues- or even bulk RNA as sc-RNA may be limited in the species. This would show that these genes are enriched in testis compared to other tissues, as opposed to just being broadly expressed. Additionally, the authors could compare to the other primate testis sc-RNA available in Murat et al. Without such comparisons the interpretations here seem limited.

      We did not test whether K<1 were enriched in other cell types because: 1) we had an a priori hypothesis that genes with K<1 would be enriched in cells involved in male reproduction, rather than enriched in cell types in the testis compared to any other cell type; and 2) The number of genes with K<1 is relatively small and the number of known cell-types in very large, at least one estimate points to ~400 major cell types in a higher primate (PMID: 37722043). Using a P-value of 0.05 from a hypergeometric or Fisher's exact test and a Bonferroni correction to control for multiple hypothesis testing, we would need the P-value for enrichment in any cell type to be 0.000125, which we are unlikely to achieve.

      More comprehensive functional comparisons could provide evidence that even though relaxed constraint is present in all lineages, perhaps relaxed constraints in the gorilla lineages are more related to sperm formation and function.

      The RELAX test is a relative one; while relaxed constraint may be present in other lineages, to observe a statistically significant K<1 in gorillas the degree of relaxation would have to have a greater effect size in gorilla than in other lineages.

      I was also a little unclear what to make of the interpretation of K<1 versus K >1 enrichment by cell type. The enrichment of K<1 is called out as noteworthy because this is when the spermatogenesis specific genes begin to be expressed, but then the K > 1 result is dismissed as occurring during pachytene which is a transcriptional permissive state of testis. To be clear, pachytene is also a critical checkpoint for fertility and enhanced purifying selection at this step could be reasonably interpreted as being at odds with the entire erosion of reproduction argument. This seems to be a selective interpretation for the overall narrative. Also, permissive transcription is not only limited to the pachytene stage and the relaxation of constraint concomitant with increased specificity and permissive expression during the later stages of spermatogenesis is a well-known result in mammals, and not anything that can be ascribed gorillas and their change in mating system.

      We agree with the Reviewer’s comment and have removed the K<1 versus K>1 interpretation from the manuscript.

      Page 13 - The LOF enrichment identified from this random sampling is borderline significant. An improved approach would be to perform permutations of random samplings and identify the range of significance based on 1000+ permutations.

      We have redone the burden test with population-matched groups to confirm the reliability of this association (lines 435 - 446). In addition, we now acknowledge in the Caveats and limitation section that our observations could benefit from a permutation analysis (lines 695 - 697).

      Page 17, bottom- Statements like these are overstating the correlation as the comparative analyses were not shown.

      We agree and have edited the text to avoid potential overstatements.

      This is good to include the role of female reproductive tract. Shouldn't the unbiased screen pull these out anyway? The authors did find some female GO terms enriched. What additional information or experiments would be needed to test the hypothesis of female compensation? The expectations for this should be made clearer.

      Given the nature of these putative female compensatory mechanisms (primarily acting on the oviduct and lower uterus, as speculated in lines 586 – 601), it is currently impossible to functionally test them in gorillas. The continued development of in vitro systems mimicking the female reproductive tract may allow such studies in the future.

      Page 18, middle- Pleiotropy is an important consideration and this paragraph discusses some valuable points. However, this is another section that could be improved by discussing the relaxed constraints in later spermatogenesis, which likely suggests that genes expressed in later stages are less pleiotropic and more testis- specific.

      We agree and have added a brief discussion of this in lines 619 - 622: “It is also possible that the negative consequences of deleterious pleiotropy become less pronounced at later stages of spermatogenesis as meiotic and post-meiotically expressed genes are enriched for testis-specific functions (PMID: 36544022).”

      Page 27, Bottom- The criteria for selection of genes to target here is interesting and disconnected from the claimed interpretation of the results. If you're targeting genes with reliable expression in Drosophila, it is not surprising that a percentage of them will lead to fertility loss. Shouldn't the background be a random set of testis-expressed genes? This test would show that relaxed constraint is a strong way to screen for fertility genes. Additionally, the authors previously showed that these genes were enriched in SC-rna in gorilla,- and likely other species. Suggesting that you identified genes 'lacking evidence' of a role in spermatogenesis in previous studies is misleading, when many of these genes are present in testis RNA datasets and enriched for sperm go terms. I would argue that genes found to be expressed in testis and spermatogenesis specific cell types, certainly have evidence of being involved in spermatogenesis.

      We thank you for the helpful suggestion. We have generated a new background group composed of a random set of testis-expressed genes. More specifically, by looking at previously published Drosophila testis expression data (PMID: 30249207), we randomly selected 156 genes with TPM>1 (transcript per million) and determined the percentage of them with reported spermatogenic / male fertility defects in Drosophila. We observed that 18 (11.5%) had been previously demonstrated to be functionally required for male reproductive fitness. This percentage is slightly higher than what we had previously observed for a random selection of Drosophila genes (9.6% - an update, using the latest available data, to the 7.7% reported in the original version). Nevertheless, both figures are still well below the 27.6% hit rate we found for the Drosophila orthologs of the gorilla K<1 genes. We have added this new information to the manuscript (lines 380 - 386).

      Regarding the potential correlation between expression and function in spermatogenesis, we and others have shown that the majority of the protein-coding genome is expressed during spermatogenesis in both vertebrate and invertebrate species (PMID: 39388236). Although the reasons for such widespread transcription in the male germ line are not entirely clear, it advises a cautious approach in terms of correlating expression with function. Indeed, our recent analysis of 920 genes reliably expressed in insect and mammalian spermatogenesis revealed that only 27.2% of them caused male reproductive impairment when individually silenced in the Drosophila testis (PMID: 39388236). Since genetic redundancy is a factor that needs to be taken into consideration when dealing with such a central biological process for the survival of a species, we take the more stringent approach of only considering a gene to be functionally involved in spermatogenesis if there is phenotypical evidence (from our RNAi assay or from previous publications) that its disruption is associated with spermatogenic impairment and/or abnormal fertility. We have added this clarification to the manuscript (lines 349 - 363).

      Page 17 "Our data ... suggests that gorillas may be at the lowest limit of male reproductive function that can be maintained by natural selection (at least in mammals or vertebrates)." I realize this is the speculation section, but this is a massive overstatement. There is absolutely nothing in your data or results that support this statement, nor is this supported by the extensive comparative reproductive data in mammals. For example, there are many mammalian systems that show lower metrics of reproductive function than gorillas. For example, the sperm abnormality indices in Box 1F are nowhere near as severe as found in many species that still somehow manage to reproduce.

      We agree and have edited the text to avoid potential overstatements (see above).

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for The Authors):

      (1) More discussion is needed as to whether their results could be explained by a reduction in effective population size in gorillas.

      Thank you for raising this important point. As you know, reduced effective population size can lead to an increased load of deleterious mutations/relaxed selection intensity. However, we do not believe that it substantially affects our observations. Indeed, relatively few genes have K<1 and those are enriched in sperm biology. Given that a reduced effective population size will plausibly increase the load of deleterious mutations and relaxed selection across many genes, it is unlikely that such a broad phenomenon would result in a specific enrichment in genes related to male reproductive biology. We have added this reasoning to the Caveats and limitations section (lines 675 - 682).

      (2) Properly controlled genetic association testing when performing a burden test is essential, and methods that allow for some variants to be associated with increased fertility should be considered. Rare variants are much more likely to show population-specific differences, and selecting humans from two potentially very different cohorts and sample sizes can easily lead to confounding. I suggest performing a principal component analysis to ascertain the degree of genetic differentiation between these cohorts, and use this to guide the selection of a subset of the control cohort as well.

      We agree and have replicated this analysis using only individuals of European descent; our conclusions have not changed but the P-values have become lower (lines 435 - 446).

      (3) Citations should also be included in Table 1, for each relevant phenotype. You may also want to consider a more general comparison of p-values and effect sizes of genome-wide association studies for human male infertility to test for an enrichment in/nearby genes showing relaxed selection along the gorilla lineage. In other words, do the relaxed genes in the gorilla lineage have an enrichment of small p-values for being associated with male infertility.

      Citations have been included in Table 1, as suggested, and the table has been updated to include the latest reported phenotypes.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study presents an interesting investigation into the role of trained immunity in inflammatory bowel disease, demonstrating that β-glucan-induced reprogramming of innate immune cells can ameliorate experimental colitis. The findings are novel and clinically relevant, with potential implications for therapeutic strategies in IBD. The combination of functional assays, adoptive transfer experiments, and single-cell RNA sequencing provides comprehensive mechanistic insights. However, some aspects of the study could benefit from further clarification to strengthen the conclusions.

      We are grateful for the reviewer’s positive assessment of our study and constructive suggestions to improve the manuscript.

      Strengths:

      (1) This study elegantly connects trained immunity with IBD, demonstrating how βglucan-induced innate immune reprogramming can mitigate chronic inflammation.

      (2) Adoptive transfer experiments robustly confirm the protective role of monocytes/macrophages in colitis resolution.

      (3) Single-cell RNA sequencing provides mechanistic depth, revealing the expansion of reparative Cx3cr1⁺ macrophages and their contribution to epithelial repair.

      (4) The work highlights the therapeutic potential of trained immunity in restoring gut homeostasis, offering new directions for IBD treatment.

      Weaknesses:

      While β-glucan may exert its training effect on hematopoietic stem cells, performing ATAC-seq on HSCs or monocytes to profile chromatin accessibility at antibacterial defense and mucosal repair-related genes would further validate the trained immunity mechanism. Alternatively, the authors could acknowledge this as a study limitation and future research direction.

      We appreciate your comments on assessing the chormoatain accessibility of HSCs induced by b-glucan training, as epigenetic reprogramming is known to be one of the underlying mechanisms for trained immunity suggest by many groups including our group. To delineate the genome-wide epigenetic reprogramming induced by β-glucan (BG), we reanalyzed publicly available chromatin profiling datasets where ATACseq of HSC from control and β-glucan trained mice was performed (accession number: CRA014389). Comparative analysis revealed HSC from BG-trained mice demonstrated pronounced enrichment at promoters and distal intergenic regions—key regulatory loci governing transcriptional activity (Fig. S7A). This divergent genomic targeting was further corroborated by distinct signal distribution profiles (Fig. S7B), supporting pronounced upregulation-driven remodeling of the epigenomic landscape induced by BG treatment. Functional annotation of these epigenetically primed promoters via GO term analysis revealed significant enrichment of immune-relevant processes, including leukocyte migration, cell-cell adhesion, and chemotaxis (Fig. S7C). Consistently, KEGG pathway analysis highlighted the enrichment of signaling cascades such as chemokine signaling and cell adhesion molecules (Fig. S7D), reinforcing the involvement of BG-induced trained immunity in inflammatory and mucosal homing pathways.

      Furthermore, promoter-centric enrichment of terms related to “defense response to bacterium” (Fig. S7E) underscored the role of BG in priming antibacterial transcriptional programs, which is a crucial axis for maintaining intestinal homeostasis. Locus-specific examination of chromatin states further validated BG-induced epigenetic modifications in the upstream regions of selected target genes, including Gbp5, Gbp2 and S100a8 and Nos2 (Fig. S7F). Collectively, our integrative reanalysis demonstrates that BG reshapes the epigenomic architecture at regulatory elements, thereby orchestrating immune gene expression programs directly relevant to IBD pathophysiology and mucosal immunity. (Line 201-211)

      Reviewer 1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) It’s better to include a schematic summarizing the proposed mechanism for reader clarity.

      We appreciate your comments and proposed a graphical abstract as in Author response image 1.

      Author response image 1.

      (2) Discuss potential off-target effects of β-glucan-induced trained immunity (e.g., risk of exacerbated inflammation in other contexts).

      We appreciate this important comment regarding the potential off-target or side-effects of β-glucan induced trained immunity. As trained immunity is known to augment inflammatory responses upon heterologous stimulation and has been implicated in chronic inflammation–prone conditions such as atherosclerosis, this is an important consideration. Previous in vivo studies have shown that β-glucan pretreatment can enhance antibacterial or antitumor responses without inducing basal inflammation after one week of administration (PMID: 22901542, PMID: 30380404, PMID: 36604547, PMID: 33125892). Nevertheless, it remains possible that β-glucan–induced trained immunity could have unintended effects in certain contexts, which warrants further investigation and caution. We have discussed this potential caveat in the discussion (Lines 299-302)

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The study investigates whether β-glucan (BG) can reprogram the innate immune system to protect against intestinal inflammation. The authors show that mice pretreated with BG prior to DSS-induced colitis experience reduced colitis severity, including less weight loss, colon damage, improved gut repair, and lowered inflammation. These effects were independent of adaptive immunity and were linked to changes in monocyte function.

      The authors show that the BG-trained monocytes not only help control inflammation but confer non-specific protection against experimental infections (Salmonella), suggesting the involvement of trained immunity (TI) mechanisms. Using single-cell RNA sequencing, they map the transcriptional changes in these cells and show enhanced differentiation of monocytes into reparative CX3CR1<sup>+</sup> macrophages. Importantly, these protective effects were transferable to other mice via adoptive cell transfer and bone marrow transplantation, suggesting that the innate immune system had been reprogrammed at the level of stem/progenitor cells.

      Overall, this study provides evidence that TI, often associated with heightened inflammatory programs, can also promote tissue repair and resolution of inflammation. Moreover, this BG-induced functional reprogramming can be further harnessed to treat chronic inflammatory disorders like IBD.

      Strengths:

      (1) The authors use advanced experimental approaches to explore the potential therapeutic use of myeloid reprogramming by β-glucan in IBD.

      (2) The authors follow a data-to-function approach, integrating bulk and single-cell RNA sequencing with in vivo functional validation to support their conclusions.

      (3) The study adds to the growing evidence that TI is not a singular pro-inflammatory program, but can adopt distinct functional states, including anti-inflammatory and reparative phenotypes, depending on the context.

      We are grateful for your positive assessment of our study and recognition of its translational implications. We particularly appreciate the acknowledgment that our work expands the therapeutic potential of β-glucan–mediated trained immunity in ameliorating colitis.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The epigenetic and metabolic basis of TI is not explored, which weakens the mechanistic claim of TI. This is especially relevant given that a novel reparative, antiinflammatory TI program is proposed.

      We appreciate your valuable comment highlighting the importance of the epigenetic and metabolic basis of TI in providing mechanistic insight. While previous studies, including work from our group (S.-C. Cheng), have extensively characterized the epigenetic and metabolic signatures of monocytes from BG-trained mice—primarily in the context of inflammatory genes—we acknowledge that these aspects are not directly addressed in our current manuscript as the current manuscript was aimed to build on the foundation of β-glucan-induced trained immunity established by many other groups including us and address its potential as a therapeutic approaches in the colitis setup.

      That being said, we fully agree with your comments to analyze the epigenetic profile on key pathways similar to the question raised by reviewer 1, we reanalyze the relevant public datasets and presenting summarize the finding in Supplementary Figure S7. ATAC-seq analysis further validated and provide the epigenetic basis of the enhanced inflammatory and antibacterial capacity of monocytes which are seeded back in the HSC compartment.

      (2) The absence of a BG-only group limits interpretation of the results. Since the authors report tissue-level effects such as enhanced mucosal repair and transcriptional shifts in intestinal macrophages (colonic RNA-Seq), it is important to rule out whether BG alone could influence the gut independently of DSS-induced inflammation. Without a BG-only control, it is hard to distinguish a true trained response from a potential modulation caused directly by BG.

      We thank the reviewer for this important suggestion. Although we did not perform qPCR for mucosal repair genes in Figure S1C and Figure S1D, our colon RNA-seq analysis in Figure 5G included a BG-only control group (Colitis_d0). These results indicate that BG preconditioning alone does not alter baseline expression of colon mucosal repair genes, supporting the conclusion that the observed effects occur in the context of DSS-induced inflammation.

      (3) Although monocyte transfer experiments show protection in colitis, the fate of the transferred cells is not described (e.g., homing or differentiation into Cx3cr1<sup>+</sup> macrophage subsets). This weakens the link between specific monocyte subsets and the observed phenotype.

      We thank the reviewer for this important point. We acknowledge that direct in vivo tracking of the adoptively transferred monocytes to confirm their homing to the colon and differentiation into specific macrophage subsets would strengthen the mechanistic link. However, due to technical limitations in reliably tracing the fate of transferred cells in our experimental setting, we were unable to provide this direct evidence. Instead, we present a strong correlative and functional evidence chain that supports the proposed model:

      (a) Following BG pretreatment, we observed a significant decrease in circulating Ly6Chi monocytes specifically at the peak of colitis (day 7, Fig. 5D), concurrent with a marked increase in monocytes/macrophages within the colonic lamina propria (Fig. 2D). This inverse relationship strongly suggests enhanced recruitment of monocytes from the blood into the inflamed colon upon BG training.

      (b) Using CX3CR1-GFP reporter mice, we found that BG pretreatment led to an increased proportion of colonic myeloid cells in an intermediate state (P5: Ly6C<sup>+</sup>MHCII<sup>+</sup>CX3CR1<sup>+</sup>, Fig. 5F). This population represents monocytes actively undergoing differentiation into intestinal macrophages, supporting the idea that BG accelerates the monocyte-to-macrophage transition in situ.

      (c) Our scRNA-seq analysis independently revealed an expansion of monocyte-derived macrophage clusters (e.g., Macro1, Macro2) in BG-treated mice, which express canonical tissue macrophage markers (including Cx3cr1) and genes associated with tissue repair (e.g., Vegfa, Fig. 4A, 5H, 5I).

      These data collectively indicate that BG-trained monocytes exhibit enhanced capacity for colonic recruitment and preferential differentiation toward reparative macrophage subsets, which aligns with the protective phenotype observed after adoptive transfer. We have explicitly noted the absence of direct fate-mapping data as a limitation in the revised Discussion and agree that future studies employing advanced tracing techniques would be valuable to definitively establish this cellular trajectory. (Line 378-380)

      (4) While scRNA-seq reveals distinct monocyte/macrophage subclusters (Mono1-3.), their specific functional roles remain speculative. The authors assign reparative or antimicrobial functions based on transcriptional signatures, but do not perform causal experiments (depletion or in vitro assays). The biological roles of these cells remain correlative.

      We agree that the functional role of CX3CR1<sup>+</sup> macrophages is not comprehensively validated and is currently inferred from scRNA-seq clustering. While our flow cytometry data show increased CX3CR1<sup>+</sup> macrophages in the BG-TI group, and our CCR2 KO and monocyte adoptive transfer experiments indicate these macrophages are monocyte-derived, suggesting at least that β-glucan pretreatment alters the monocyte capacity which directly contribute to the enhanced colitis alleviation phenotype as observed. However, due to the fact that we fail to find a cluster dependent marker, which is also the current biggest caveats of the scRNAseq defined cell subclusters, we were not able to show direct casual evidence via specifically depleting subcluster cells. However, the result from the monocyte adoptive transfer experiment with Ccr2 KO mice experimental strongly suggest the presence of monocytes is crucial for this protective effect. We fully acknowledge this as a limitation of current study and clarify in the discussion that our conclusions regarding CX3CR1<sup>+</sup> macrophage function are mainly based on transcriptional profiling and association with protective phenotypes, rather than direct causal evidence (Lines 400-404).

      (5) While Rag1<sup>-/-</sup> mice were used to rule out adaptive immunity, the potential role of innate lymphoid cells (ILCs), particularly ILC2s and ILC3s, which are known to promote mucosal repair (PMID: 27484190 IF: 7.6 Q1 IF: 7.6 Q1 IF: 7.6 Q1), was not explored. Given the reparative phenotype observed, the contribution of ILCs remains a confounding factor.

      We appreciate your valuable comment regarding the potential role of ILCs in the observed mucosal repair. Indeed, in our current manuscript examining the BG-trained immunity effect, the contribution of ILCs was not evaluated. Due to the fact that adoptive transfer of trained monocytes into CCR2 KO mice could recapitulate the colitis alleviation phenotype, we think at least the β-glucan enhanced protection are dependent on trained monocytes. While acknowledge that the limitation and we could not rule out the possible role of ILCs in this process and discuss this limitation in the discussion in the revised manuscript.

      The literature (PMID: 21502992; PMID: 32187516) supports a role for ILC3-mediated IL-22 production in tissue repair, which could overlap with our observed effects. However, our monocyte adoptive transfer experiments show that monocytes alone can alleviate DSS-induced colitis, suggesting a dominant role for monocytes in this context. Nonetheless, we will make it clear that ILC contributions cannot be excluded. (Line 322-326).

      Reviewer 2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) The authors do not provide direct mechanistic evidence of TI (e.g., epigenetic and metabolic reprogramming). The absence of such data weakens the mechanistic strength of the TI claim. The authors should soften the terminology to BGinduced myeloid reprogramming suggestive of trained immunity, acknowledge, and discuss this limitation.

      We appreciate your comment highlighting the lack of direct epigenetic and metabolic assessment in our current study. Previous work from our group (S.-C. Cheng) and others has extensively documented the epigenetic and metabolic profiles of monocytes from β-glucan–trained mice, focusing primarily on inflammatory-related genes. Based on this established foundation, our current manuscript focuses on exploring the translational potential of BG-induced trained immunity.

      That said, as mentioned in our response to the identified weakness, we performed reanalysis from the public epigenetic datasets with a focus on pathways related to reparative and antibacterial functions and integrated this part in the revised manuscript (Fig S7, Lines 201-211).

      (2) CX3CR1<sup>+</sup> macrophages' role is not functionally validated. The data relies solely on scRNA-seq and cluster annotations, which are insufficient to confirm functional roles in vivo. Depletion or in vitro studies would provide stronger causal evidence. The authors should acknowledge this limitation in the Discussion.

      We agree that the functional role of CX3CR1<sup>+</sup> macrophages is not comprehensively validated and is currently inferred from scRNA-seq clustering. While our flow cytometry data show increased CX3CR1<sup>+</sup> macrophages in the BG-TI group, and our CCR2 KO and monocyte adoptive transfer experiments indicate these macrophages are monocyte-derived, suggesting at least that β-glucan pretreatment alters the monocyte capacity which directly contribute to the enhanced colitis alleviation phenotype as observed. However, due to the fact that we fail to find a cluster dependent marker, which is also the current biggest caveats of the scRNAseq defined cell subclusters, we were not able to show a direct casual evidence. We fully acknowledge this as a limitation of current study and clarify in the discussion that our conclusions regarding CX3CR1<sup>+</sup> macrophage function are mainly based on transcriptional profiling and association with protective phenotypes, rather than direct causal evidence (Lines 395-404).

      (3) Rag1<sup>-/-</sup> mice retain innate lymphoid cells (ILCs), particularly ILC3, which are mucosal and produce IL-22, contributing to tissue repair (PMID: 21502992; PMID: 32187516). The potential for BG to activate ILCs remains unexplored in this study. This limits the interpretation of whether the observed protection arises from monocyte/macrophage reprogramming or is partially mediated by residual ILC activity. The authors should explicitly acknowledge this limitation and discuss the possible contribution of ILCs to the observed phenotype.

      We appreciate your valuable comment regarding the potential role of ILCs in the observed mucosal repair. Indeed, in our current manuscript examining the BG-trained immunity effect, the contribution of ILCs was not evaluated. Due to the fact that adoptive transfer of trained monocytes into CCR2 KO mice could recapitulate the colitis alleviation phenotype, we think at least the β-glucan enhanced protection are dependent on trained monocytes. While acknowledge that the limitation and we could not rule out the possible role of ILCs in this process and discuss this limitation in the discussion in the revised manuscript

      The literature (PMID: 21502992; PMID: 32187516) supports a role for ILC3-mediated IL-22 production in tissue repair, which could overlap with our observed effects. However, our monocyte adoptive transfer experiments show that monocytes alone can alleviate DSS-induced colitis, suggesting a dominant role for monocytes in this context. Nonetheless, we will make it clear that ILC contributions cannot be excluded. (Line 322-327).

      (4) Figure 1-It would help to clarify whether a BG-only control group (without DSS) was included in the design. This would be critical to determine if BG alone alters the colon. If omitted, the authors should clearly state this and consider adding such a group in future experiments. This would help define the baseline effects of BG and support the claim that its benefits are dependent on TI (upon second challenge - DSS).

      We appreciate this valuable suggestion. While we did not perform qPCR to assess mucosal repair genes in Figure S1C and Figure S1D, our colon RNA-seq analysis in Figure 5G included a dedicated BG-only control group at based line before DSStreatment (Colitis_d0). These data indicate that BG preconditioning alone does not alter the baseline expression of colon mucosal repair genes.

      (5) Figure 3 - It would strengthen the conclusions to include a vehicle-treated PBS BMT donor control group, or to state its absence. It is unclear whether the protective effect observed in recipients of BG-treated BM is due to trained immunity or to non-specific effects of transplantation, irradiation, or batch variation.

      We fully agree with your comments that it is critical to including the vehicle-treated PBS BMT control to rule out any non-specific effects induced by transplantation, irradiation or batch variation. We actually did the blank PBS transfer control everytime after mice received irradiation treatment as a control to assess the successful induction of irradiation to get rid of bone marrow from irradiated mice. Mice that receive PBS only will die after 8 days while only mice receiving either bone marrow from PBScontrol or BG-treatment group will survive. We also perform flowcytometry to examine the successful BMT transplantation (Fig S5C). We have added part regarding the vehicle-treated control for BMT in the material method section for clarification (Lines 456-466).

      (6) No gene expression or phenotypic data is provided for monocytes/macrophages in BMT recipients; therefore, it cannot be confidently stated that these cells were reprogrammed. Expression/phenotypic data should be added or discussed.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. We acknowledge that a detailed transcriptomic or phenotypic analysis of donor-derived tissue-resident myeloid cells in the BMT recipients would provide the most direct evidence for their reprogrammed state.

      While our BMT study focused primarily on assessing the transferability of the protective phenotype via endpoint disease parameters and circulating immune cell composition, we present a coherent and compelling line of evidence supporting the conclusion that BG's training effect is maintained within the hematopoietic system of recipients and mediated by reprogrammed myeloid cells:

      (a) A key finding is the significant increase in the proportion of donor-derived Ly6Chi monocytes in the peripheral blood of recipients receiving BG-trained bone marrow (Fig. 3J). This is not a bystander effect but direct evidence that the BG-induced on donor hematopoietic stem/progenitor cells instructs a biased differentiation program towards a specific effector precursor population within the new host, demonstrating the functional persistence of the trained state post-transplantation.

      (b) The core of reprogramming in trained immunity lies in persistent epigenetic and functional changes. Our new analysis of public datasets (Fig. S7) confirms that BG directly reshapes the chromatin accessibility landscape in hematopoietic stem cells (HSCs), particularly at loci regulating immune and antibacterial responses. This provides the fundamental mechanism explaining how the trained phenotype is both long-lasting and transplantable: the reprogramming occurs at the progenitor level.

      (c) The most causally compelling data in our study comes from the independent adoptive transfer experiment, where transfer of purified BG-trained monocytes alone was sufficient to ameliorate colitis in recipient mice (Fig. 3K, L). This definitively proves that the trained monocytes themselves carry the protective functional program. It strongly suggests that these reprogrammed monocytes/macrophages are the likely effectors mediating protection in the BMT model.

      (d) Our interpretation aligns with well-established paradigms in the field. Precedent studies confirm that the BG-trained phenotype (e.g., enhanced cytokine potential) can be transferred via BMT or monocyte adoption. For instance, Haacke et al. (PMID: 40020679) demonstrated that splenic monocytes from BG-trained donors, when transferred into arthritic recipient mice, led to elevated inflammatory cytokine (e.g., Tnf, Il6) expression in recipient joints, directly proving the maintained functional reprogramming of trained cells in a heterologous host environment. This provides a strong precedent supporting the functional activity of transferred trained cells in our model.

      (7) The study is consistent with emerging evidence that distinct TI programs may exist depending on the stimulus and context, including immunoregulatory and tissue-reparative responses (PMID: 35133977; PMID: 31732931; PMID: 32716363; PMID: 30555483). The authors should integrate this perspective into the Discussion to acknowledge that their findings may represent one example of such context-dependent, potentially reparative TI programs. This would place the study within the growing literature describing functional heterogeneity in innate immune training.

      We appreciate this suggestion and have incorporated it into the discussion. In the revised manuscript, we discussed how our findings of BG-induced protective myeloid reprogramming align with the concept of tissue-reparative or immunoregulatory TI, which is distinct from the pro-inflammatory TI phenotypes described in other contexts. By highlighting the functional heterogeneity of innate immune training, we position our work as an example of a stimulus-specific, reparative TI program. (Lines 356-379)

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In the present work, Yinyin Lv et al offer evidence for the therapeutic potential of trained immunity in the context of inflammatory bowel disease (IBD). Prior research has demonstrated that innate cells pre-treated (trained) with β-glucan show an enhanced pro-inflammatory response upon a second challenge.

      While an increased immune response can be beneficial and protect against bacterial infections, there is also the risk that it will worsen symptoms in various inflammatory disorders. In the present study, the authors show that mice preconditioned with β-glucan have enhanced resistance to Staphylococcus aureus infection, indicating heightened immune responses.

      The authors demonstrate that β-glucan training of bone marrow hematopoietic progenitors and peripheral monocytes mitigates the pro-inflammatory effects of colitis, with protection extending to naïve recipients of the trained cells.

      Using a dextran sulfate sodium (DSS)-induced model of colitis, β-glucan pre-treatment significantly dampens disease severity. Importantly, the use of Rag1<sup>-/-</sup> mice, which lack adaptive immune cells, confirms that the protective effects of β-glucan are mediated by innate immune mechanisms. Further, experiments using Ccr2<sup>-/-</sup> mice underline the necessity of monocyte recruitment in mediating this protection, highlighting CCR2 as a key factor in the mobilization of β-glucan-trained monocytes to inflamed tissues. Transcriptomic profiling reveals that β-glucan training upregulates genes associated with pattern recognition, antimicrobial defense, immunomodulation, and interferon signaling pathways, suggesting broad functional reprogramming of the innate immune compartment. In addition, β-glucan training induces a distinct monocyte subpopulation with enhanced activation and phagocytic capacity. These monocytes exhibit an increased ability to infiltrate inflamed colonic tissue and differentiate into macrophages, marked by increased expression of Cx3cr1. Moreover, among these trained monocyte and macrophage subsets, other gene expression signatures are associated with tissue and mucosal repair, suggesting a role in promoting resolution and regeneration following inflammatory insult.

      Strengths:

      (1) Overall, the authors present a mechanistically insightful investigation that advances our understanding of trained immunity in IBD.

      (2) By employing a range of well-characterized murine models, the authors investigate specific mechanisms involved in the effects of β-glucan training.

      (3) Furthermore, the study provides functional evidence that the protection conferred by the trained cells persists within the hematopoietic progenitors and can be transferred to naïve recipients. The integration of transcriptomic profiling allows the identification of changes in key genes and molecular pathways underlying the trained immune phenotype.

      (4) This is an important study that demonstrates that β-glucan-trained innate cells confer protection against colitis and promote mucosal repair, and these findings underscore the potential of harnessing innate immune memory as a therapeutic approach for chronic inflammatory diseases.

      Thank you for the positive evaluation and constructive feedback on our manuscript.

      Weaknesses:

      However, FPKM is not ideal for between-sample comparisons due to its within-sample normalization approach. Best practices recommend using raw counts (with DESeq2) for more robust statistical inference.

      We appreciate the reminder about best practices for RNA-seq analysis. We apologize for the inaccurate description in the Materials and Methods section. For all differential expression analyses, we have in fact used raw count data as input for DESeq2. FPKM values were only used for visualization purposes, such as in heatmaps and clustering analyses. We correct this description in the revised manuscript to accurately reflect our analysis workflow. (Lines 488-499)

      Reviewer 3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Current best practices recommend working with raw count data when using DESeq2 to ensure statistically robust differential expression analysis between samples. However, for visualization and clustering, like heatmaps, FPKMs can be used. Could the authors explain why they have used FPKM for differential gene expression analysis?

      We appreciate the reminder about best practices for RNA-seq analysis. We apologize for the inaccurate description in the Materials and Methods section. For all differential expression analyses, we have in fact used raw count data as input for DESeq2. FPKM values were only used for visualization purposes, such as in heatmaps and clustering analyses. We correct this description in the revised manuscript to accurately reflect our analysis workflow. (Lines 488-499)

      Minor Comment

      (1) Line 92: remove extra word "that".

      We remove the extra word “that” from Line 92 in the revised manuscript.

      (2) Line 201: please state here what "GBP" stands for, as it appears first.

      We define “GBP” as “Guanylate-Binding Protein” at its first appearance in Line 201. (Lines 213)

      (3) Line 235: consider rewriting "we analyzed the day 7 RNA-seq data, which revealed significant enrichment of the myeloid"; added spacing for "day 7", "which", and "the".

      We revise the sentence in Line 235 to read: “We analyzed the day 7 RNA-seq data, which revealed significant enrichment of the myeloid…” to improve readability. (Lines

      246-247)

      (4) Line 290: consider rewriting " as seen in conditions such as rheumatoid arthritis and ...".

      We revise Line 290 to: “as observed in conditions such as rheumatoid arthritis and…” for clarity. (Lines 301-302)

      (5) Line 375-376: please check sentence starting lower case "with minor modifications, by assessing ".

      We correct the sentence to start with a capital letter: “With minor modifications, by assessing…” (Lines 422-423)

      (6) Line 399: kindly consider adding "was" after "cDNA".

      We revise Line 399 to include “was” as suggested: “cDNA was synthesized…” (Lines 446)

      (7) Line 346-347: consider adding "which" after "monocytes": "We transferred BGpreconditioned monocytes which significantly alleviated clinical symptoms".

      We revise Line 346-347 to include “which” as suggested for grammatical clarity. (Lines 385-386)

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      (1) Figure 1B shows the PREDICTED force-extension curve for DNA based on a worm-like chain model. Where is the experimental evidence for this curve? This issue is crucial because the F-E curve will decide how and when a catch-bond is induced (if at all it is) as the motor moves against the tensiometer. Unless this is actually measured by some other means, I find it hard to accept all the results based on Figure 1B.

      The Worm-Like-Chain model for the elasticity of DNA was established by early work from the Bustamante lab (Smith et al., 1992) and Marko and Siggia (Marko and Siggia, 1995), and was further validated and refined by the Block lab (Bouchiat et al., 1999; Wang et al., 1997). The 50 nm persistence length is the consensus value, and was shown to be independent of force and extension in Figure 3 of Bouchiat et al (Bouchiat et al., 1999). However, we would like to stress that for our conclusions, the precise details of the Force-Extension relationship of our dsDNA are immaterial. The key point is that the motor stretches the DNA and stalls when it reaches its stall force. Our claim of the catch-bond character of kinesin is based on the longer duration at stall compared to the run duration in the absence of load. Provided that the motor is indeed stalling because it has stretched out the DNA (which is strongly supported by the repeated stalling around the predicted extension corresponding to ~6 pN of force), then the stall duration depends on neither the precise value for the extension nor the precise value of the force at stall.

      (2) The authors can correct me on this, but I believe that all the catch-bond studies using optical traps have exerted a load force that exceeds the actual force generated by the motor. For example, see Figure 2 in reference 42 (Kunwar et al). It is in this regime (load force > force from motor) that the dissociation rate is reduced (catch-bond is activated). Such a regime is never reached in the DNA tensiometer study because of the very construction of the experiment. I am very surprised that this point is overlooked in this manuscript. I am therefore not even sure that the present experiments even induce a catch-bond (in the sense reported for earlier papers).

      It is true that Kunwar et al measured binding durations at super-stall loads and used that to conclude that dynein does act as a catch-bond (but kinesin does not) (Kunwar et al., 2011). However, we would like to correct the reviewer on this one. This approach of exerting super-stall forces and measuring binding durations is in fact less common than the approach of allowing the motor to walk up to stall and measuring the binding duration. This ‘fixed trap’ approach has been used to show catch-bond behavior of dynein (Leidel et al., 2012; Rai et al., 2013) and kinesin (Kuo et al., 2022; Pyrpassopoulos et al., 2020). For the non-processive motor Myosin I, a dynamic force clamp was used to keep the actin filament in place while the myosin generated a single step (Laakso et al., 2008). Because the motor generates the force, these are not superstall forces either.

      (3) I appreciate the concerns about the Vertical force from the optical trap. But that leads to the following questions that have not at all been addressed in this paper:

      (i) Why is the Vertical force only a problem for Kinesins, and not a problem for the dynein studies?

      Actually, we do not claim that vertical force is not a problem for dynein; our data do not speak to this question. There is debate in the literature as to whether dynein has catch bond behavior in the traditional single-bead optical trap geometry - while some studies have measured dynein catch bond behavior (Kunwar et al., 2011; Leidel et al., 2012; Rai et al., 2013), others have found that dynein has slip-bond or ideal-bond behavior (Ezber et al., 2020; Nicholas et al., 2015; Rao et al., 2019). This discrepancy may relate to vertical forces, but not in an obvious way.

      (ii) The authors state that "With this geometry, a kinesin motor pulls against the elastic force of a stretched DNA solely in a direction parallel to the microtubule". Is this really true? What matters is not just how the kinesin pulls the DNA, but also how the DNA pulls on the kinesin. In Figure 1A, what is the guarantee that the DNA is oriented only in the plane of the paper? In fact, the DNA could even be bending transiently in a manner that it pulls the kinesin motor UPWARDS (Vertical force). How are the authors sure that the reaction force between DNA and kinesin is oriented SOLELY along the microtubule?

      We acknowledge that “solely” is an absolute term that is too strong to describe our geometry. We softened this term in our revision to “nearly parallel to the microtubule” (Line 464). In the Geometry Calculations section of Supplementary Methods, we calculate that if the motor and streptavidin are on the same protofilament, the vertical force will be <1% of the horizontal force. We also note that if the motor is on a different protofilament, there will be lateral forces and forces perpendicular to the microtubule surface, except they are oriented toward rather than away from the microtubule. The DNA can surely bend due to thermal forces, but because inertia plays a negligible role at the nanoscale (Howard, 2001; Purcell, 1977), any resulting upward forces will only be thermal forces, which the motor is already subjected to at all times.

      (4) For this study to be really impactful and for some of the above concerns to be addressed, the data should also have included DNA tensiometer experiments with Dynein. I wonder why this was not done?

      As much as we would love to fully characterize dynein here, this paper is about kinesin and it took a substantial effort. The dynein work merits a stand-alone paper.

      While I do like several aspects of the paper, I do not believe that the conclusions are supported by the data presented in this paper for the reasons stated above.

      The three key points the reviewer makes are the validity of the worm-like-chain model, the question of superstall loads, and the role of DNA bending in generating vertical forces. We hope that we have fully addressed these concerns in our responses above.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Major comments:

      (1) The use of the term "catch bond" is misleading, as the authors do not really mean consistently a catch bond in the classical sense (i.e., a protein-protein interaction having a dissociation rate that decreases with load). Instead, what they mean is that after motor detachment (i.e., after a motor protein dissociating from a tubulin protein), there is a slip state during which the reattachment rate is higher as compared to a motor diffusing in solution. While this may indeed influence the dynamics of bidirectional cargo transport (e.g., during tug-of-war events), the used terms (detachment (with or without slip?), dissociation, rescue, ...) need to be better defined and the results discussed in the context of these definitions. It is very unsatisfactory at the moment, for example, that kinesin-3 is at first not classified as a catch bond, but later on (after tweaking the definitions) it is. In essence, the typical slip/catch bond nomenclature used for protein-protein interaction is not readily applicable for motors with slippage.

      We acknowledge that our treatment of kinesin-3 was confusing. In response, we deleted any reference to kinesin-3 catch-bond in the Results section, and restricted it to the Discussion where it is interpretation. In Line 635 in the Discussion, we softened the statement of catch-bond activity to “…all three dominant kinesin transport families display catch-bond like behavior at stall…”. We acknowledge that, classically, the catch/slip bond nomenclature refers to simple protein-protein interactions and is easier to interpret there. However, the term ‘catch-bond’ has been used in the literature for myosin, dynein and kinesin, and thus we feel that it is sufficiently established to use it here.

      (2) The authors define the stall duration as the time at full load, terminated by >60 nm slips/detachments. Isn't that a problem? Smaller slips are not detected/considered... but are also indicative of a motor dissociation event, i.e., the end of a stall. What is the distribution of the slip distances? If the slip distances follow an exponential decay, a large number of short slips are expected, and the presented data (neglecting those short slips) would be highly distorted.

      The reviewer brings up a good point that there may be undetected slips. To address this question, we plotted the distribution of slip distances for kinesin-3, which by far had the most slip events. As the reviewer suggested, it is indeed an exponential distribution, and we calculated a corrected kinesin-3 stall duration due to these undetected slips. This data and analysis are included as a new Supplementary Figure S8. In the main text on Lines 283-293 we included the following text:

      “It was notable that the kinesin-3 stall durations at high load are longer than the ramp durations at low load, because this indicates that the kinesin-3 off-rate slows with increasing load. However, because kinesin-3 had the most slip events at stall, we were concerned that there may be undetected slip events below the 60 nm threshold of detection that led to an overestimation of the kinesin-3 stall duration. To test this hypothesis, we plotted the distribution of kinesin-3 slip distances at stall, fit an exponential, and calculated the fraction of missed slip events (Fig. S8). From this analysis, we calculated a correction factor of 1.42 that brought the kinesin-3 stall duration down 1.33 s. Notably, this stall duration value is still well above the kinesin-3 ramp duration value of 0.75 s in Fig. 3C and thus does not qualitatively change our conclusions.”

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion.

      (3) Along the same line: Why do the authors compare the stall duration (without including the time it took the motor to reach stall) to the unloaded single motor run durations? Shouldn't the times of the runs be included?

      The elastic force of the DNA spring is variable as the motor steps up to stall, and so if we included the entire run duration then it would be difficult to specify what force we were comparing to unloaded. More importantly, if we assume that any stepping and detachment behavior is history independent, then it is mathematically proper to take any arbitrary starting point (such as when the motor reaches stall), start the clock there, and measure the distribution of detachments durations relative to that starting point. More importantly, what we do in Fig. 3 is to separate out the ramps from the stalls and, using a statistical model, we compute a separate duration parameter (which is the inverse of the off-rate) for the ramp and the stall. What we find is that the relationship between ramp, stall, and unloaded durations is different for the three motors, which is interesting in itself.

      (4) At many places, it appears too simple that for the biologically relevant processes, mainly/only the load-dependent off-rates of the motors matter. The stall forces and the kind of motor-cargo linkage (e.g., rigid vs. diffusive) do likely also matter. For example: "In the context of pulling a large cargo through the viscous cytoplasm or competing against dynein in a tug-of-war, these slip events enable the motor to maintain force generation and, hence, are distinct from true detachment events." I disagree. The kinesin force at reattachment (after slippage) is much smaller than at stall. What helps, however, is that due to the geometry of being held close to the microtubule (either by the DNA in the present case or by the cargo in vivo) the attachment rate is much higher. Note also that upon DNA relaxation, the motor is likely kept close to the microtubule surface, while, for example, when bound to a vesicle, the motor may diffuse away from the microtubule quickly (e.g., reference 20).

      We appreciate the reviewer’s detailed thinking here, and we offer our perspective. As to the first point, we agree that the stall force is relevant and that the rigidity of the motor-cargo linkage will play a role. The goal of the sentence on pulling cargo that the reviewer highlights is to set up our analysis of slips, which we define as rearward displacements that don’t return to the baseline before force generation resumes. We revised this sentence to the following: “In the context of pulling a large cargo through the viscous cytoplasm or competing against dynein in a tug-of-war, these slip events enable the motor to continue generating force after a small rearward displacement, rather than fully detaching and ‘resetting’ to zero load.” (Line 339-342)

      It should be noted that, as shown in the model diagram in Fig. 5, we differentiate between the slip state (and recovery from this slip state) and the detached state (and reattachment from this detached state). This delineation is important because, as the reviewer points out, if we are measuring detachment and reattachment with our DNA tensiometer, then the geometry of a vesicle in a cell will be different and diffusion away from the microtubule or elastic recoil perpendicular to the microtubule will suppress this reattachment.

      Our evidence for a slip state in which the motor maintains association with the microtubule comes from optical trapping work by Tokelis et al (Toleikis et al., 2020) and Sudhakar et al (Sudhakar et al., 2021). In particular, Sudhakar used small, high index Germanium microspheres that had a low drag coefficient. They showed that during ‘slip’ events, the relaxation time constant of the bead back to the center of the trap was nearly 10-fold slower than the trap response time, consistent with the motor exerting drag on the microtubule. (With larger beads, the drag of the bead swamps the motor-microtubule friction.) Another piece of support for the motor maintaining association during a slip is work by Ramaiya et al. who used birefringent microspheres to exert and measure rotational torque during kinesin stepping (Ramaiya et al., 2017). In most traces, when the motor returned to baseline following a stall, the torque was dissipated as well, consistent with a ‘detached’ state. However, a slip event is shown in S18a where the motor slips backward while maintaining torque. This is best explained by the motor slipping backward in a state where the heads are associated with the microtubule (at least sufficiently to resist rotational forces). Thus, we term the resumption after slip to be a rescue from the slip state rather than a reattachment from the detached state.

      To finish the point, with the complex geometry of a vesicle, during slip events the motor remains associated with the microtubule and hence primed for recovery. This recovery rate is expected to be the same as for the DNA tensiometer. Following a detachment, however, we agree that there will likely be a higher probability of reattachment in the DNA tensiometer due to proximity effects, whereas with a vesicle any elastic recoil or ‘rolling’ will pull the detached motor away from the microtubule, suppressing reattachment. To address this point, we added in the Discussion on lines 654-656:

      “Additionally, any ‘rolling’ of a spherical cargo following motor detachment will tend to suppress the motor reattachment rate.”

      (5) Why were all motors linked to the neck-coil domain of kinesin-1? Couldn't it be that for normal function, the different coils matter? Autoinhibition can also be circumvented by consistently shortening the constructs.

      We chose this dimerization approach to focus on how the mechoanochemical properties of kinesins vary between the three dominant transport families. We agree that in cells, autoinhibition of both kinesins and dynein likely play roles in regulating bidirectional transport, as will the activity of other regulatory proteins. The native coiled-coils may act as ‘shock absorbers’ due to their compliance, or they might slow the motor reattachment rate due to the relatively large search volumes created by their long lengths (10s of nm). These are topics for future work. By using the neck-coil domain of kinesin-1 for all three motors, we eliminate any differences in autoinhibition or other regulation between the three kinesin families and focus solely on differences in the mechanochemistry of their motor domains.

      (6) I am worried about the neutravidin on the microtubules, which may act as roadblocks (e.g. DOI: 10.1039/b803585g), slip termination sites (maybe without the neutravidin, the rescue rate would be much lower?), and potentially also DNA-interaction sites? At 8 nM neutravidin and the given level of biotinylation, what density of neutravidin do the authors expect on their microtubules? Can the authors rule out that the observed stall events are predominantly the result of a kinesin motor being stopped after a short slippage event at a neutravidin molecule?

      (7) Also, the unloaded runs should be performed on the same microtubules as in the DNA experiments, i.e., with neutravidin. Otherwise, I do not see how the values can be compared.

      To address the question of neutravidin acting as a roadblock, we did the following. Because of the sequence of injections used to assemble the tensiometer in the flow cell, there are often some residual GFP-kinesin motors that aren’t attached to DNA and thus serve as internal controls for unloaded motility on the neutravidin-functionalized Mt. We quantified the run durations of these free kinesin-GFP and found that their run duration was 0.92 s (95% CI: 0.79 to 1.04 by MEMLET). This is slightly lower but not statistically different from the 1.04 s [0.78, 1.31] on control microtubules in Fig 2A. This result is included in Figure S6 in the revised manuscript.

      We don’t have a precise estimate for the amount of neutravidin on the microtubules. Based on Fig. 3C of Korten and Diez (Korten and Diez, 2008), the reduction in the unloaded run duration that we see corresponds to a ~2% biotinylation ratio. We polymerize Mt with 10% biotinylated tubulin and add 8 nM neutravidin to the flow cell, so in principle the microtubules could be 10% biotin-streptavidin coated. However, there are a number of uncertainties that push this estimate lower – a) the precise degree of biotinylation, b) whether the %biotinylated tubulin in polymerized microtubules is lower than the mixing ratio due to unequal incorporation, and 3) what fraction of the biotinylated tubulin are occupied by the neutravidin when using this neutravidin flow-in method. Thus, our best estimate is ~2% biotin-streptavidin functionalization.

      The ramp durations in Fig. 3 provide another argument that biotinylated microtubules are not affecting the motors. Compared to unloaded durations for each motor, the kinesin-1 ramps were longer, the kinesin-2 ramps were the same, and the kinesin-3 ramps were shorter duration. That argues against any systematic effect of biotinylation on motor run durations, with the caveat that family-dependent differences could in principle be masking an effect. The fact that ramp durations aren’t systematically longer or shorter than the unloaded run durations also argues that the stalls we see, which are at the expected extension length of the dsDNA, are not caused by neutravidin roadblocks.

      The final point the reviewer brings up is whether neutravidin may be contributing to the rescues from slips events that we observe. This is difficult to fully rule out. However, because the unloaded run durations aren’t significantly altered by the biotin-streptavidin on the microtubules, we don’t expect the rescue events following a slip to be significantly affected. In principle, we could systematically increase and decrease the biotinylation and see whether the slip rescues change, but we haven’t done this.

      (8) If, as stated, "a portion of kinesin-3 unloaded run durations were limited by the length of the microtubules, meaning the unloaded duration is a lower limit." corrections (such as Kaplan-Meier) should be applied, DOI: 10.1016/j.bpj.2017.09.024.

      (9) Shouldn't Kaplan-Meier also be applied to the ramp durations ... as a ramp may also artificially end upon stall? Also, doesn't the comparison between ramp and stall duration have a problem, as each stall is preceded by a ramp ...and the (maximum) ramp times will depend on the speed of the motor? Kinesin-3 is the fastest motor and will reach stall much faster than kinesin-1. Isn't it obvious that the stall durations are longer than the ramp duration (as seen for all three motors in Figure 3)?

      The reviewer rightly notes the many challenges in estimating the motor off-rates during ramps. To estimate ramp off-rates and as an independent approach to calculating the unloaded and stall durations, we developed a Markov model coupled with Bayesian inference methods to estimate a duration parameter (equivalent to the inverse of the off-rate) for the unloaded, ramp, and stall duration distributions. With the ramps, we have left censoring due to the difficulty in detecting the start of the ramps in the fluctuating baseline, and we have right censoring due to reaching stall (with different censoring of the ramp duration for the three motors due to their different speeds). The Markov model assumes a constant detachment probability and history-independence, and thus is robust even in the face of left and right censoring (details in the Supplementary section). This approach is preferred over Kaplan-Meier because, although non-parametric methods such as K-M make no assumptions for the distribution, they require the user to know exactly where the start time is.

      Regarding the potential underestimate of the kinesin-3 unloaded run duration due to finite microtubule lengths. The first point is that the unloaded duration data in Fig. 2C are quite linear up to 6 s and are well fit by the single-exponential fit (the points above 6 s don’t affect the fit very much). The second point is that when we used our Markov model (which is robust against right censoring) to estimate the unloaded and stall durations, the results agreed with the single-exponential fits very well (Table S2). Specifically, the single-exponential fit for the kinesin-3 unloaded duration was 2.74 s (2.33 – 3.17 s 95% CI) and the estimate from the Markov model was 2.76 (2.28 – 3.34 s 95% CI). Thus, we chose not to make any corrections to the kinesin-3 unloaded run durations due to finite microtubule lengths. To address this point in the revision, we added the following note in Table S2: “* Because the Markov-Bayesian model, which is unaffected by left and right censoring of data gave same unloaded run durations for kinesin-3 as the MEMLET fit, we did not the kinesin-3 unloaded run durations for any right censoring due to finite microtubule lengths.” We also added the following point in the legend of Fig. S1: “A fraction of kinesin-3 unloaded run durations were limited by the length of the microtubules, but fitting to a model that took into account missed events gave a similar mean duration as an exponential fit, and so no correction was made (Table S2).”

      (10) It is not clear what is seen in Figure S6A: It looks like only single motors (green, w/o a DNA molecule) are walking ... Note: the influence of the attached DNA onto the stepping duration of a motor may depend on the DNA conformation (stretched and near to the microtubule (with neutravidin!) in the tethered case and spherically coiled in the untethered case).

      In Figure S6 kymograph, the green traces are GFP-labeled kinesin-1 without DNA attached (which are in excess) and the red diagonal trace is a motor with DNA attached. We clarified this in the revised Figure S6 legend. We agree that the DNA conformation will differ if it is attached and stretched (more linear) versus simply being transported (random coil), but by its nature this control experiment is only addressing random coil DNA.

      (11) Along this line: While the run time of kinesin-1 with DNA (1.4 s) is significantly shorter than the stall time (3.0 s), it is still larger than the unloaded run time (1.0 s). What do the authors think is the origin of this increase?

      We addressed this point in lines 200-212 of the revised manuscript:

      “We carried out two additional control experiments. First, to confirm that the neutravidin used to link the DNA to the microtubule wasn’t affecting kinesin motility, we analyzed the run durations of kinesin-1 motors on neutravidin-coated microtubules and found no change compared to unlabeled microtubules (Fig. S6). Second, we measured the run duration of kinesin-1 linked to a DNA tether that was not bound to the microtubule and thus was being transported (Fig. S6). The kinesin-DNA run duration was 1.40 s, longer than the 1.04 s of motors alone (Fig. 2A). We interpret this longer duration to reflect the slower diffusion constant of the dsDNA relative to the motor alone, which enables motors to transiently detach and rebind before the DNA cargo has diffused away, thus extending the run duration (Block et al., 1990). Notably, this slower diffusion constant should not play a role in the DNA tensiometer geometry because if the motor transiently detaches, it will be pulled backward by the elastic forces of the DNA and detected as a slip or detachment event.“

      (12) "The simplest prediction is that against the low loads experienced during ramps, the detachment rate should match the unloaded detachment rate." I disagree. I would already expect a slight increase.

      Agreed. We changed this text (Lines 265-267) to: “The prediction for a slip bond is that against the low loads experienced during ramps, the detachment rate should be equal to or faster than the unloaded detachment rate.”

      (13) Isn't the model over-defined by fitting the values for the load-dependence of the strong-to-weak transition and fitting the load dependence into the transition to the slip state?

      Essentially, yes, it is overdefined, but that is essentially by design and the model is still very useful. Our goal here was to make as simple a model as possible that could account for the data and use it to compare model parameters for the different motor families. Ignoring the complexity of the slip and detached states, a model with a strong and weak state in the stepping cycle and a single transition out of the stepping cycle is the simplest formulation possible. And having rate constants (k<sub>S-W</sub> and k<sub>slip</sub> in our case) that vary exponentially with load makes thermodynamic sense for modeling mechanochemistry (Howard, 2001). Thus, we were pleasantly surprised that this bare-bones model could recapitulate the unloaded and stall durations for all three motors (Fig. 5C-E).

      (14) "When kinesin-1 was tethered to a glass coverslip via a DNA linker and hydrodynamic forces were imposed on an associated microtubule, kinesin-1 dissociation rates were relatively insensitive to loads up to ~3 pN, inconsistent with slip-bond characteristics (37)." This statement appears not to be true. In reference 37, very similar to the geometry reported here, the microtubules were fixed on the surface, and the stepping of single kinesin motors attached to large beads (to which defined forces were applied by hydrodynamics) via long DNA linkers was studied. In fact, quite a number of statements made in the present manuscript have been made already in ref. 37 (see in particular sections 2.6 and 2.7), and the authors may consider putting their results better into this context in the Introduction and Discussion. It is also noteworthy to discuss that the (admittedly limited) data in ref. 37 does not indicate a "catch-bond" behavior but rather an insensitivity to force over a defined range of forces.

      The reviewer misquoted our sentence. The actual wording of the sentence was: “When kinesin-1 was connected to micron-scale beads through a DNA linker and hydrodynamic forces parallel to the microtubule imposed, dissociation rates were relatively insensitive to loads up to ~3 pN, inconsistent with slip-bond characteristics (Urbanska et al., 2021).” The sentence the reviewer quoted was in a previous version that is available on BioRxiv and perhaps they were reading that version. Nonetheless, in the Discussion of the revision, we added text to note that this behavior is indicative of an ideal bond (not a catch-bond) on Lines 480-483: “When kinesin-1 was connected to micron-scale beads through a DNA linker and hydrodynamic forces parallel to the microtubule imposed, dissociation rates were relatively insensitive to loads up to ~3 pN, inconsistent with slip-bond characteristics and instead characteristic of an ideal-bond.” We also added a sentence in the Introduction highlighting this work, Lines 84-87: “Fourth, when kinesin-1 was connected to a bead through a micron-long segment of DNA and hydrodynamic forces were imposed on the bead, motor interaction times were insensitive to hindering loads up to 3 pN, indicative of an ideal-bond.”

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      The authors attribute the differences in the behaviour of kinesins when pulling against a DNA tether compared to an optical trap to the differences in the perpendicular forces. However, the compliance is also much different in these two experiments. The optical trap acts like a ~ linear spring with stiffness ~ 0.05 pN/nm. The dsDNA tether is an entropic spring, with negligible stiffness at low extensions and very high compliance once the tether is extended to its contour length (Fig. 1B). The effect of the compliance on the results should be addressed in the manuscript.

      This is an interesting point. We added the following paragraph in Lines 101-111 in the Geometry Consideration section of the Supplementary Methods.

      “Another consideration when comparing the DNA tensiometer to optical trap measurements is the relative stiffness of the trap and dsDNA. Optical trap stiffnesses are generally in the range of 0.05 pN/nm [12,13]. To calculate the predicted stiffness of the dsDNA spring, we computed the slope of theoretical force-extension curve in Fig. 1B. The stiffness is highly nonlinear and is <0.001 pN/nM below 650 nm extension. At the predicted stall force of 6 pN (960 nm extension), the dsDNA stiffness ~0.2 pN/nm, which is stiffer than most optical traps, but it is similar to the estimated 0.3 pN/nm stiffness of kinesin motors themselves[12,13]. An 8 nm step at this stiffness leads to a 1.6 pN jump in force, so it is reasonable to expect that motors are dynamically stepping at stall. Therefore, there is no reason to expect that stiffness differences between optical traps and the dsDNA spring are affecting the motor detachment kinetics.”

      Compared to an optical trapping assay, the motors are also tethered closer to the microtubule in this geometry. In an optical trap assay, the bead could rotate when the kinesin is not bound. The authors should discuss how this tethering is expected to affect the kinesin reattachment and slipping. While likely outside the scope of this study, it would be interesting to compare the static tether used here with a dynamic tether like MAP7 or the CAP-GLY domain of p150glued.

      Please see our response to Reviewer #2 Major Comment #4 above, which asks this same question in the context of intracellular cargo. In response to the point from Reviewer #3, we added the following sentence on Lines 654-656: “Additionally, any ‘rolling’ of a spherical cargo following motor detachment will tend to suppress the motor reattachment rate.”

      Regarding a dynamic tether, we agree that’s interesting – there are kinesins that have a second, non-canonical binding site that achieves this tethering (e.g. ncd and Cin8); p150glued likely does this naturally for dynein-dynactin-activator complexes; and we speculated in a review some years ago (Hancock, 2014) that during bidirectional transport kinesin and dynein may act as dynamic tethers for one another when not engaged, enhancing the activity of the opposing motor.

      In the single-molecule extension traces (Figure 1F-H; S3), the kinesin-2 traces often show jumps in position at the beginning of runs (e.g., the four runs from ~4-13 s in Fig. 1G). These jumps are not apparent in the kinesin-1 and -3 traces. What is the explanation? Is kinesin-2 binding accelerated by resisting loads more strongly than kinesin-1 and -3?

      We agree that at first glance those jumps are puzzling. To investigate this question the first thing we did was to go back to our tensiometer dataset and look systematically at jumps for all three motors. We found roughly 4-6 large jumps like these for all three motors (kinesin-1: 250 +/- 99 nm (mean +/- SD; N=5); kinesin-2: 249 +/- 165 nm (N=6); kinesin-3: 490 +/- 231 nm (N=4)). Thus, although the apparent jumps may be more pronounced due to the specific rebinding kinetics of kinesin-2, this behavior is not unique to this motor. (Note that the motor binding position distribution in Fig. S2 is taken from initial binding positions that follow a clear period of detachment; thus, not all jumps are captured there.)

      Our interpretation is that these apparent jumps are simply a reflection of the long length and high compliance of the dsDNA tether. For instance, below 650 nm extension the stiffness, k <0.001 pN/nM (see Reviewer #3, point #1 above). Thus, we expect large fluctuations of the tethered motor when not bound to the microtubule. One reason that these events look like ‘jumps’ is that the sub-ms fluctuations during detached periods are not captured by the ~25 fps movies (40 ms frame acquisition time). Instead, the fitted Qdot position represents the average position during the acquisition window. Actually, due to these rapid fluctuations (and the limited depth of the TIRF illumination field) the position often can’t be determined during these periods of fluctuation (e.g. see gaps at ~2.5 s, 11 s and 24 s in Fig. 1F).

      When comparing the durations of unloaded and stall events (Fig. 2), there is a potential for bias in the measurement, where very long unloaded runs cannot be observed due to the limited length of the microtubule (Thompson, Hoeprich, and Berger, 2013), while the duration of tethered runs is only limited by photobleaching. Was the possible censoring of the results addressed in the analysis?

      Yes. Please see response to Reviewer #2 points (8) and (9) above.

      The mathematical model is helpful in interpreting the data. To assess how the "slip" state contributes to the association kinetics, it would be helpful to compare the proposed model with a similar model with no slip state. Could the slips be explained by fast reattachments from the detached state?

      In the model, the slip state and the detached states are conceptually similar; they only differ in the sequence (slip to detached) and the transition rates into and out of them. The simple answer is: yes, the slips could be explained by fast reattachments from the detached state. In that case, the slip state and recovery could be called a “detached state with fast reattachment kinetics”. However, the key data for defining the kinetics of the slip and detached states is the distribution of Recovery times shown in Fig. 4D-F, which required a triple exponential to account for all of the data. If we simplified the model by eliminating the slip state and incorporating fast reattachment from a single detached state, then the distribution of Recovery times would be a single-exponential with a time constant equivalent to t<sub>1</sub>, which would be a poor fit to the experimental distributions in Fig. 4D-F.

      Recommendations for the authors: 

      Reviewing Editor Comments:

      The reviewers are in agreement with the motivation and approach of this study. The use of DNA tethers is an important advance in tethering motor proteins to gain insight into how motors respond to load. However, all 3 reviewers express reservations on how well the results support the claims. In particular, the use of the term catch bond was problematic, with Reviewer #2 suggesting some alternative nomenclature. Reviewer #1 expressed concern with experimental evidence for the predicted force-extension curve shown in Figure 1. I agree with the reviewers that additional experimental evidence would be required to conclude the catch-bond detachment kinetics of kinesin.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) By eye, the run lengths, e.g., of kin-1 look very long in Figure S1 ... certainly above the expected 1 µm. Please check and comment.

      We agree that the long runs do stick out by eye in this figure. To address this point, we analyzed the run lengths and run times from the kymograph shown in Fig. S1. Fitting the run duration distribution gave t = 1.31 s with a 95% CI of 0.96 to 1.67. This is slightly longer than the 1.04 s duration in Fig. 2A, but the 95% CI include this population mean, and so the S1 data are not statistically significantly different. The run time distribution from the S1 kymograph is given in Author response image 1.

      Author response image 1.

      (2) The upper right kymograph in Figure 4A does not show a motor return to the baseline. Also, the scale bars, etc., are unreadable. Please modify.

      Our purpose for showing the kymographs in Fig. 4A was to show the specific features of slips and fast and slow reattachment. Because we blew up the kymographs to show those specific features, it precluded us from showing the entire return to baseline. As suggested, we magnified the scale bars and the labels on the kymograph labels to make them readable.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) The frequent references to 95% confidence intervals disrupt the flow of the text. Perhaps the confidence intervals could be listed in a table rather than in the body of the text.

      We deleted those from the text; they are shown in Fig. 2D and listed in Table S2.

      We appreciate the efforts and helpful suggestions of all three reviewers and the Editor.

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    1. Author Response:

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This manuscript by Xiong and colleagues presents a compelling validation of UniDesign, a fully computational protein design framework, by using it to engineer a novel, PAM-relaxed variant of Staphylococcus aureus Cas9 (SaCas9) named KRH. The core achievement is the successful de novo generation of a high-performance nuclease (E782K/N968R/R1015H) solely through in silico modeling, without any subsequent experimental optimization or directed evolution. The authors demonstrate that KRH expands the SaCas9 PAM specificity from NNGRRT to NNNRRT, achieving genome editing and base editing efficiencies across multiple human cell types that are comparable to, and sometimes exceed, the well-known evolution-derived KKH variant. The work positions UniDesign not merely as an analytical tool, but as a powerful engine for the generative design of complex molecular functions, offering a scalable and mechanistically insightful alternative to traditional experimental screening.

      Strengths:

      This is an outstanding manuscript that serves as a powerful proof-of-concept for the next generation of computational protein design. The primary selling point-the raw predictive and generative power of UniDesign-is convincingly demonstrated throughout.

      The manuscript shows that the tool can:

      (1) successfully navigate a complex sequence landscape to identify a minimal set of three mutations (KRH) that remodel a critical protein-DNA interface;

      (2) accurately model and balance the delicate interplay between specific base contacts and non-specific backbone interactions to achieve relaxed PAM specificity;

      (3) deliver a final product whose performance is indistinguishable from, and in some cases superior to, a variant that required extensive wet-lab evolution.

      The experimental validation is rigorous, thorough, and directly supports the computational predictions. This work will stand as a landmark study for the field, illustrating that computational design has matured to the point where it can reliably generate sophisticated tools for genome engineering.

      (1) Demonstration of Generative Power:

      The most significant finding is that UniDesign, without any experimental feedback, generated a variant (KRH) that matches the performance of the evolution-derived KKH. This is a remarkable achievement. The iterative design strategy-first reducing PAM bias (R1015H), then restoring binding through non-specific interactions (e.g., N968R, E782K)-is a textbook example of rational design, but it is executed entirely by the algorithm. This validates UniDesign's energy function and search algorithm as capable of capturing the subtle biophysical principles governing PAM recognition.

      (2) Mechanistic Insight as a Built-in Feature:

      A key advantage of UniDesign highlighted by this work is its inherent ability to provide mechanistic explanations. The computational models not only predicted which mutations would work (e.g., N968R over N968K in the KRH variant) but also why they work. The structural and energetic analyses showing the bidentate salt bridge formed by Arg968 versus the single bond formed by Lys968 (Figure 4A) is a perfect example of how the tool's output can rationalize functional differences, a level of insight that is rarely attainable from directed evolution campaigns alone.

      (3) Scalability and Accessibility for Engineering:

      The authors explicitly contrast UniDesign's efficiency (minutes to hours per design run) with the computational expense of methods like COMET and the experimental overhead of directed evolution. The improvements to UniDesign v1.2, specifically the mutation-count and sequence-uniqueness penalties, directly address a key challenge in computational design (generating diverse, low-energy point-mutant libraries). This positions the tool as a highly accessible and scalable platform for engineering other CRISPR systems, a point that will be of immense interest to the community.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for the comprehensive summary and the highly positive and encouraging comments on our manuscript.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Title and Abstract Emphasis: The title and abstract are effective but could be slightly sharpened to emphasize the primary message. Consider a title like "Fully computational design of a PAM-relaxed SaCas9 variant with UniDesign demonstrates power to match directed evolution." The abstract could more explicitly state upfront that the design was achieved without any experimental iteration.

      We thank the reviewer for these valuable suggestions. We agree that our current title and abstract may be overly objective and neutral, and we will consider refining them during the formal revision.

      (2) Figure 1, Panel M: The data points in panel M are currently presented at a font size that makes them difficult to read, particularly the labels for the many triple-mutant variants. This density obscures the clear identification of the top-performing designs, such as the KRH variant selected for experimental validation. I recommend that the authors increase the font size of all text elements within this panel, including axis labels, tick marks, and data point labels, to improve legibility. If necessary, the panel dimensions can be adjusted or the layout reorganized to accommodate the larger text without compromising clarity. Ensuring this figure is readable is important, as it visually communicates the energetic convergence that led to the selection of KRH.

      We thank the reviewer for these valuable suggestions. We will refine the Fig. 1M during the formal revision.

      (3) Generality of the Design Strategy for Other PAM Positions:

      The design strategy focused on relaxing specificity at the highly constrained third position of the PAM (the guanine in NNGRRT). How transferable is this specific strategy (i.e., disrupting a key specific contact and compensating with non-specific backbone binders) to relaxing other positions in the PAM or to other Cas enzymes with different PAM-interaction architectures? A short discussion on this point would help readers understand the broader applicability of the "fine-tuning the balance" principle.

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful question and suggestion. The current study builds upon our previous work on CRISPR–Cas PAM recognition modeling using UniDesign (PMID: 37078688), in which eight Cas9 proteins and two Cas12 proteins (each has a different PAM) were investigated. Our computational results demonstrated that UniDesign effectively captures the mutual preferences between natural PAMs and native PAM-interacting amino acids (PIAAs). For example, UniDesign accurately predicted the canonical PAMs of SpCas9 and SaCas9 as NGG and NNGRRT, respectively; conversely, given their canonical PAMs, UniDesign successfully recapitulated the corresponding PIAAs in both systems.

      These findings provide the foundation for the present study and motivate our selection of SaCas9 as a representative system to explore PAM relaxation, thereby further demonstrating UniDesign’s predictive power through experimental validation. Although we did not perform similar PAM relaxation designs for other Cas9 or Cas12 proteins, we believe that the UniDesign framework is broadly generalizable and can be readily extended to these systems. We will include additional discussion to clarify this point and highlight the broader applicability of our design strategy.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This manuscript describes the fully in silico design of a new variant of Staphylococcus aureus Cas9 (SaCas9) using an improved UniDesign workflow.

      The design strategy consists of three sequential steps:

      (1) reducing positional bias at PAM position 3;

      (2) restoring DNA binding through nonspecific interactions;

      (3) combining individually favorable substitutions.

      The overall pipeline is conceptually elegant and logically structured, and the genome-editing activity of the designed variants is comprehensively characterized. The resulting KRH variant exhibits relaxed PAM specificity, expanding the targeting range of SaCas9 across diverse cell types. Notably, the KRH variant demonstrates performance comparable to that of the evolution-derived KKH variant, underscoring the effectiveness of the proposed computational design framework.

      Strengths:

      The design pipeline is entirely computational and does not rely on experimental data for pretraining or iterative optimization.

      We thank the reviewer for the concise and accurate summary of our manuscript.

      Weaknesses:

      The computationally generated KRH mutant differs from the experimentally evolved KKH variant by only a single residue, which may reflect insufficient exploration of the available sequence space.

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful critique. In the present study, our strategy was not to allow UniDesign to freely explore all 27 mutable positions simultaneously, but rather to constrain the search to point mutations (e.g., double or triple mutants) within the full sequence space (approximately 20^27). Even with this constraint, UniDesign effectively samples a substantially large design space compared to traditional protein engineering approaches.

      Through iterative design, we observed that only certain residue types became enriched at a subset of positions when identifying effective double mutants. These enriched residues were then systematically combined to generate performance-enhancing triple mutants in an automated manner. Although we ultimately selected the KRH mutant for experimental validation due to its high similarity to the known KKH variant, UniDesign also proposed additional multi-mutants that are distinct from KKH.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study reports KRH, a SaCas9 variant computationally engineered via UniDesign to recognize an expanded NNNRRT PAM with substantially enhanced editing efficiency at non-canonical sites. KRH achieves genome- and base-editing efficiencies comparable to or exceeding the evolution-derived KKH variant across multiple human cell types, demonstrating that computational design can effectively remodel PAM specificity while preserving nuclease activity.

      Strengths:

      The research follows a clear line of reasoning, and the results appear sound. The computational design strategy presented offers a valuable alternative to directed evolution, with potential applicability beyond Cas9 engineering.

      We thank the reviewer for the concise and accurate summary of our manuscript.

      Weaknesses:

      The benchmarking of the UniDesign method is insufficient. How its performance compares to other protein design algorithms, whether the energy function parameters were systematically optimized, and if the design strategy can be generalized to other Cas9 orthologs or genome engineering tasks.

      We thank the reviewer for this valuable critique. The present study builds upon our previous work on CRISPR–Cas PAM recognition modeling using UniDesign (PMID: 37078688), in which many of these concerns were systematically addressed. In that study, UniDesign was benchmarked against Rosetta, a well-established protein design platform, across eight Cas9 proteins and two Cas12 proteins, each recognizing distinct PAM sequences.

      Our results demonstrated that UniDesign effectively captures the mutual preferences between natural PAMs and native PAM-interacting amino acids (PIAAs) across these CRISPR–Cas systems. For example, UniDesign accurately predicted the canonical PAMs of SpCas9 and SaCas9 as NGG and NNGRRT, respectively; conversely, given their canonical PAMs, UniDesign successfully recapitulated the corresponding PIAAs in both systems.

      These findings provide the foundation for the present study and motivate our selection of SaCas9 as a representative system to explore PAM relaxation, thereby further demonstrating UniDesign’s predictive power through experimental validation. Although we did not perform analogous PAM relaxation designs for other Cas9 or Cas12 proteins in this work, we believe that the UniDesign framework is broadly generalizable and can be readily extended to these systems. We will incorporate additional discussion in the revised manuscript to address these points and clarify the broader applicability of our approach.

    1. Author Response:

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      While the results show some loss in the eyelid meibomian glands, there is significant gland retention in HSD3b6 KO mice, as shown in Figure 2. This is supported by the lack of DEG patterns showing downregulation of Meibum lipid genes (AWAT2, Far2, Soat1, Plin2, SCD, etc.), and no decrease in Pparg expression, known to be critical for meibomian gland lipid gene expression.

      Weaknesses:

      It should be noted that while the authors indicate that CD38 is significantly up-regulated in the HSD3b6 KO mouse, the increase was not sufficient to show a significant adjusted P-value. Bulk RNA sequencing also shows no significant change in meibum lipid gene expression for aged mice that are treated with 78c, an inhibitor of CD38, which the authors indicate increases NAD levels, leading to increased meibomian gland size compared to vehicle-treated mice. Unfortunately, there was no increase in meibum lipid gene expression with 78c, as identified by adjusted P-value. However, it should be noted that the supplemental file covering DEG expression was labeled as a Microarray analysis. This did not include the 78c+NMN treated mice, which the authors contend show a more impactful effect on the meibomian gland.

      We thank the reviewer for the careful evaluation and insightful comments regarding the interpretation of meibomian gland phenotypes and gene expression profiles.

      Regarding the point on the apparent retention of meibomian gland structure and the lack of downregulation of key lipid-related genes (e.g., Awat2, Far2, Soat1, Plin2, Scd, and Pparg), we agree that these observations are important for interpreting the extent of gland dysfunction. In the revised manuscript, we will more clearly present and discuss the RNA-seq data, including the expression profiles of representative meibomian gland lipid genes (and other DEGs), to better contextualize these findings.

      With respect to Cd38 expression, we acknowledge that the statistical significance based on adjusted P-values was limited in the current microarray dataset. To address this point, we will perform additional validation using targeted quantitative PCR with specific primers to more accurately assess Cd38 expression changes.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, the authors demonstrate strong correlations between a pro-inflammatory state, the activity of an intracrine hormone (3 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, 3B-HSD), and the NAD co-factor. Specifically, in a 3B-HSD knockout mouse, there was an upregulation in pro-inflammatory cytokines and increased CD38+ cells (CD38 is an enzyme that depletes NAD, a necessary cofactor for 3B-HSD activity). Conversely, induction of inflammation in the eyelids resulted in reductions in 3B-HSD activity. Supplementation with 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) or the NAD precursor NMN, and inhibition of CD38 activity (78c), corrected the pathologies observed in both the 3B-HSD knockout mouse and the pro-inflammatory model (LPS injection into eyelids).

      Strengths:

      The experiments were performed with good rigor, assessing the impact of inflammation and 3B-HSD activity using multiple model systems. The endpoints represented a combination of transcriptional changes, protein quantification, enzymatic activity, and immunofluorescent microscopy. The authors use human tissue from both younger and older individuals to justify their hypotheses that increased CD38 + cells and reduced 3B-HSD quantity exist in older individuals. The data provide the foundation for assessing more global changes to the tear film and ocular surface.

      Weaknesses:

      The main weaknesses of the study include the following:

      (1) An absence of information on meibomian gland health, tear film, and ocular surface.

      (2) Too few human subjects to validate the hypotheses.

      Conclusion:

      Overall, this study demonstrates an important relationship that exists between intracrine signaling, inflammation, and cofactor signaling. It represents a novel approach in therapeutic design for patients with meibomian gland dysfunction.

      We thank the reviewer for the positive evaluation of our study and for recognizing the rigor of the experiments, the use of multiple model systems, and the potential of the data to provide a foundation for further investigation.

      Regarding the points raised under weaknesses, we agree that evaluation of meibomian gland function, tear film, and ocular surface phenotypes would provide important additional insight. In the present study, we focused primarily on the structural phenotype of the meibomian gland, particularly gland size, as a primary feature of MGD. We acknowledge that pathological assessments of gland function and ocular surface conditions have not been fully addressed. We will clearly state this limitation and expand the Discussion to position these aspects as important directions for future investigation.

      With respect to the limited number of human samples, we acknowledge that this is an important consideration for validating the translational relevance of our findings. We will revise the manuscript to more explicitly address this limitation and interpret the human data with appropriate caution.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors aimed to investigate whether disruption of intracrine steroid hormone metabolism contributes to meibomian gland dysfunction and proposed a "vicious cycle" of gland dysfunction and inflammation, using a global Had3b6 knockout mouse model. The work addresses an important aspect of MGD, but its impact may be limited unless the intracrine mechanism can be more clearly distinguished from systemic hormonal effects.

      Strengths:

      This study addressed an important question. The hormonal regulation of the meibomian gland has long been recognized. If clarified, the concept of local steroid metabolism influencing gland homeostasis could have implications for understanding disease mechanisms and identifying therapeutic targets.

      Weaknesses:

      The use of a global knockout makes it difficult to separate local intracrine effects from systemic hormonal changes, and key controls and hormone measurements are lacking.

      LPS-induced inflammation may not reflect the chronic nature of MGD.

      We thank the reviewer for the thoughtful evaluation and for highlighting the importance of distinguishing intracrine mechanisms from systemic hormonal effects.

      We agree that, as currently presented, the use of a global Hsd3b6 knockout model makes it difficult to fully separate local intracrine effects from systemic hormonal changes. This point is also consistent with the major concern raised in the editorial assessment regarding the need to more clearly establish the proposed intracrine mechanism. To address this issue, we will strengthen the evidence for intracrine regulation by incorporating additional analyses. Specifically, we will assess systemic testosterone levels in Hsd3b6 knockout mice and include appropriate controls using orchidectomized (ORX) mice. These analyses will help to better distinguish local intracrine mechanisms from systemic hormonal influences.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      (1) As mentioned above, numerous studies have reported that the number of MuSCs declines with aging. The authors' claim is valid, as Pax7 and Vcam1 were widely used for these observations. However, age-related differences have also been reported even when using these markers (Porpiglia et al., Cell Stem Cell 2022; Liu et al., Cell Rep 2013). (a) When comparing geriatric Vcam1⁺ MuSCs with young MuSCs in this study, did the authors observe any of the previously reported differences? (b) Furthermore, would increasing the sample size in Figure 1 reveal a statistically significant difference? The lack of significance appears to result from variation within the young group. (c) In addition, this reviewer requests the presentation of data on MuSC frequency in geriatric control mice using CD200 and CD63 in the final figure.

      (a) When comparing geriatric Vcam1<sup>+</sup> MuSCs with middle aged MuSCs, we found 1,428 DEGs, where 701 genes were downregulated and 727 genes were upregulated (Fig. S3E). Some of the pathways altered were similar to previously reported differences, such as alterations in the autophagy-lysosome related genes and PI3K-Akt Pathways. However, these alterations did not affect the functional integrity of geriatric Vcam1<sup>+</sup> MuSCs (Fig. 3 A-F). On the other hand, greater alterations were observed in geriatric Vcam1<sup>-</sup> MuSCs, accompanied by functional impairment. We have added further elaborations in the manuscript to reflect the comment from the reviewer (pg. 17, lines 369-379).

      (b) Thank you for this helpful comment. We understand the reviewer’s concern that the variability within the young group may contribute to the absence of statistical significance. We respectfully note that the variance observed in the young cohort could be biologically expected rather than technical noise. Multiple studies have shown that young adult MuSCs display great transcriptional and functional heterogeneity from undergoing post-natal myogenic maturation (e.g., Biressi et al., 2010; Tierney & Sacco, 2016; Motohashi & Asakura, 2014). This broader heterogeneity naturally increases variance in marker distribution within young samples. We would also like to clarify that our main conclusions are not solely based on differences in the overall proportion of YFP⁺ and Lin⁻ cells among age groups. Instead, we also rely on the functional and phenotypic heterogeneity that specifically emerges in geriatric MuSCs.

      Although the young group shows greater biological variation, the mean values are relatively similar among the groups. Multiple independent datasets in our study including functional performance and molecular profiles consistently show that the total MuSC frequency does not markedly decline with aging. For these reasons, even if the sample size is increased, we do not expect a change in the overall interpretation of this result. We have revised the Results section to acknowledge the variability observed in the young group and to emphasize that total MuSC frequency is not central to the conclusions of this study (pg. 6, lines 129-134).

      (c) MuSC frequency in geriatric control mice using CD200 and CD63 in the final figure are in the figure legend of Fig. 5F (pg. 39, line 825-828).

      (2) Can the authors identify any unique characteristics of Pax7-VCAM-1 GERI-MuSCs using only the data generated in this study, without relying on public databases? For example, reduced expression of Vcam1 and Pax7. The results of such analyses should be presented.

      In Fig S2C, using the bulk-RNA sequencing data generated in this study, we observe reduced expression of both Pax7 and Vcam1 in Pax7-VCAM-1 GERI-MuSCs population. To better highlight this finding, we have added text in the Results section that explicitly describes the reduced Pax7 expression and Vcam1 loss as distinguishing features of Pax7-VCAM-1 GERI-MuSCs in our dataset (pg. 9, lines 199-200).

      (3) In the senolysis experiment, the authors state that GER1-MuSCs were depleted. However, no data are provided to support this conclusion. Quantitative cell count data would directly address this concern. In addition, the FACS profile corresponding to Figure 4D should be included.

      In Figure 4D we quantified the frequency of VCAM1 Low YFP positive Lin negative MuSCs after senolysis treatment. This analysis shows a clear trend toward a decrease in the GERI subpopulation, although the difference did not reach conventional statistical significance in this experiment (t test p = 0.0596). We have therefore revised the text to describe this as a reduction trend rather than complete depletion, and we now explicitly report the p value in the results section (pg. 12, line 270-272). Furthermore, representative FACS profiles for Figure 4D is now included with the quantification (pg. 38, line 811-814).

      (4) Figure S4: It remains unclear whether DHT enhances regenerative ability through restoration of the VCAM1 expression in GER1-MuSCs, as DHT also acts on non-MuSC populations. Analyses of the regenerative ability of Senolysis+DHT mice may help to clarify this issue.

      We thank the reviewer for this important insight. We agree that DHT can act on non-stem cell populations in the muscle environment and therefore we cannot conclusively attribute the improved regenerative performance solely to restoration of VCAM1 expression in GERI-MuSCs. To address this concern, we have revised the discussion to explicitly state this limitation and to clarify that DHT may influence multiple cell types that contribute to muscle regeneration. We also indicate that combined senolysis plus DHT treatment would be an informative future approach, although additional animal experiments were not feasible within the scope of the current study (pg. 18, line 382-390).

      (5) Why are there so many myonuclear transcripts detected in the single-cell RNA-seq data? Was this dataset actually generated using single-nucleus RNA-seq? This reviewer considers it inappropriate to directly compare scRNA-seq and snRNA-seq results.

      Regarding the question of why many myonuclear transcripts were detected and whether this dataset was generated using single nucleus RNA sequencing, we confirm that the experiments were performed using single cell RNA sequencing. The presence of myonuclear transcripts likely reflects partial nuclear leakage or fragmentation during the enzymatic dissociation of aged muscle tissue. This is a known technical issue when preparing single cell suspensions from adult or geriatric skeletal muscle.

      To avoid inappropriate interpretation, we identified the myonuclear transcript enriched cluster and excluded it from all downstream analyses that involve MuSC comparison. Therefore, our major conclusions do not rely on this cluster. We have revised the Results text to clearly state that the dataset was generated using single cell RNA sequencing and to explain how myonuclear transcript-positive cells were handled (pg. 8, lines 176-181).

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      In this study, Kim et al. explore the heterogeneity within the aged MuSC population using a mouse model that enables lineage tracing of MuSCs throughout life. The questions addressed in the manuscript are highly relevant to the fields of aging and stem cell biology, and the experimental approach overcomes limitations of earlier studies. However, some of the claims would benefit from additional data analysis, and the central claim of the identification of a "previously unrecognized subpopulation" of aged MuSCs should be evaluated in light of prior work that has also examined MuSC heterogeneity in aging.

      Specific points:

      (1) As a general comment that is transversal to multiple figures, several experiments should include a direct comparison to a young cohort. Previous studies have shown that the depletion of subpopulations with aging is observed early in the aging process, for example, the loss of Pax7-high MuSCs is observed already in 18‐month‐old mice (Li, 2019, doi: 10.15252/embj.2019102154). Using only mice at 12-14 months as the control group is therefore insufficient to claim that no changes occur with aging.

      We thank the reviewer’s suggestion for comparing the aged mice to a young cohort and we acknowledge that previous studies have observed depletion of subpopulations is observed early in the aging process. However, this study is specifically designed to delineate the transition from middle aged to geriatric stages, rather than to characterize differences that are already well established in young versus geriatric comparisons. Previous studies have extensively documented the decline in MuSC function between young and aged animals, whereas the process and timing by which these changes emerge remain unclear. Our results show that major alterations in MuSC phenotype and identity are detected predominantly in the geriatric stage rather than at the middle aged stage. To avoid any misunderstanding, we have revised the text to clearly state that the primary objective of this work is to define the critical shift that occurs from middle aged to geriatric muscle stem cells (page 3-4, line 67-71).

      (2) One of the central claims of the manuscript is a challenge to the notion that MuSCs number declines with age. However, the data analysis associated with the quantification of YFP+ cells needs to be expanded to support this conclusion. The authors present YFP+ cells only as a proportion of Lin-neg cells. Since FAP numbers are known to decrease with aging, a stable proportion of YFP+ cells would simply indicate that MuSCs decline at the same rate as FAPs. To more accurately assess changes in MuSC abundance, the authors should report absolute numbers of YFP+ cells normalized to tissue mass (cells/ mg of muscle).

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful suggestion. We agree that a proportion based analysis alone does not fully exclude the possibility that MuSCs and FAPs decrease at similar rates during aging. At the time of isolation, muscle mass was not recorded, so we are unable to report YFP<sup>+</sup> cell numbers normalized to tissue weight as requested. To partially address this limitation, we have now clarified our gating strategy in the methods and Figure 1 to explicitly indicate Sca1<sup>+</sup> FAP exclusion (pg. 6, line 121-122, pg. 22, lines 460-463). These analyses do not support a major selective loss of MuSCs relative to other mesenchymal populations with aging.

      (3) The authors emphasize that several studies use VCAM1 as a surface marker to identify MuSCs. However, many other groups rely on α7-integrin, and according to Figure 1D, the decline in ITGA7 expression within the YFP+ population is not significant. Therefore, the suggestion that MuSC numbers have been misquantified with aging would apply only to a subset of studies. If the authors can demonstrate that YFP+ cell numbers (normalized per milligram of tissue) remain unchanged in geriatric mice, the discussion should directly address the discrepancies with studies that quantify MuSCs using the Lin−/α7-integrin+ strategy.

      We thank the reviewer for this important comment. We agree that VCAM1 is only one of several commonly used surface markers for MuSC identification and that many studies quantify MuSCs using the Lin negative and ITGA7 positive strategy. That is why in our study, in addition to VCAM1, we also examined ITGA7 expression within the YFP positive population. Although the mean ITGA7 level did not significantly decline, the variance among geriatric MuSCs was significantly increased based on the F test. This supports the idea that aging does not uniformly reduce marker expression but instead increases phenotypic instability, which could lead to under detection of a subset of MuSCs even when ITGA7 is used as the primary marker. We have added this interpretation to the Discussion (pg. 16, lines 346-355).

      (4) The authors focus their attention on a population of VCAM-low/VCAM-neg subpopulation of MuSCs that is enriched in aging. However, the functional properties of this same population in middle-aged (or young) mice are not addressed. Thus, it remains unclear whether geriatric VCAM-low/VCAM-neg MuSCs lose regenerative potential or whether this subpopulation inherently possesses low regenerative capacity and simply expands during aging.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. In young and middle aged mice, the VCAM low or VCAM negative population is extremely small, nearly absent in most samples. The emergence and expansion of this population is therefore a feature that becomes detectable only at the geriatric stage. Given that these cells are not present in appreciable numbers earlier in life, the reduced regenerative performance observed in geriatric VCAM1<sup>low</sup> MuSCs likely reflects a phenotype that arises during aging rather than an inherent property of a pre-existing subpopulation. We have added this clarification to the Results section (pg. 7, lines 142-146).

      (5) According to Figure 1F, the majority of MuSCs appear to fall within the category of VCAM-low or VCAM-neg (over 80% by visual estimate). It would be important to have an exact quantification of these data. As a result, the assays testing the proliferative and regenerative capacity of VCAM-low/negative cells are effectively assessing the performance of more than 80% of geriatric MuSCs, which unsurprisingly show reduced efficiency. Perhaps more interesting is the fact that a population of VCAM-high geriatric MuSCs retains full regenerative potential. However, the existence of MuSCs that preserve regenerative potential into old age has been reported in other studies (Garcia-Prat, 2020, doi: 10.1038/s41556-020-00593-7; Li, 2019, doi: 10.15252/embj.2019102154). At this point, the central question is whether the authors are describing the same aging-resistant subpopulations of MuSCs using a new marker (VCAM) or whether this study truly identifies a new subpopulation of MuSCs. The authors should directly compare the YFP+VCAM+ aged cells with other subpopulations that maintain regenerative potential in aging.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. First, in response to the request for precise quantification, we now provide the proportions of VCAM1-high and VCAM1-low/negative MuSCs in each age group in the figure legends for Fig.1F (pg. 34-35, lines 765-772). In geriatric mice, VCAM1 low/negative MuSCs represent approximately 44.6% ± 35.7%, whereas VCAM-high MuSCs represent 3.9% ± 1.8%. The substantial variability reflects mouse-to-mouse heterogeneity at very advanced ages.

      Importantly, our conclusions do not rely solely on the observation that a large fraction of geriatric MuSCs exhibit reduced regenerative potential. Rather, the VCAM-low state represents a transcriptionally and functionally distinct subpopulation that emerges specifically in the geriatric stage, and exhibits molecular signatures not present in young or mid-aged MuSCs. We have expanded the Results and Discussion to clarify this point.

      Regarding whether VCAM-high geriatric MuSCs correspond to previously reported “aging-resistant” MuSCs (e.g., Garcia-Prat 2020; Li 2019), we agree that there may be conceptual overlap, as both populations retain regenerative activity. However, those studies identified resilient MuSCs based on mitochondrial or Pax7-high properties, whereas our classification is based on surface VCAM1 intensity, and we currently lack direct evidence that these populations are equivalent. We have therefore added a statement acknowledging this possibility while clarifying that our work does not claim that VCAM1-high MuSCs represent a newly discovered resilient subset, but instead focuses on the emergence and characterization of the VCAM-low dysfunctional subpopulation (pg. 16, lines 346-355).

      (6) In Figure 3F, it is unclear from the data presentation and figure legend whether the authors are considering the average of fiber sizes in each mouse as a replicate (with three data points per condition), or applied statistical analysis directly to all individual fiber measurements. The very low p-values with n=3 are surprising. It is important to account for the fact that observations from the same mouse are correlated (shared microenvironment, mouse-specific effects) and therefore cannot be considered independent.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important statistical point. We fully agree that individual myofibers from the same mouse are not independent biological replicates. In morphometric analyses of regenerated muscle, however, it is standard practice to analyze the full CSA distribution across all regenerated fibers, as the distribution itself (rather than a per-mouse mean) provides the biologically relevant measure of regeneration quality.

      The original analysis therefore treated each regenerated fiber as a component of the overall CSA distribution, not as an independent biological replicate, and the statistical comparison was performed at the level of distributions rather than per-mouse replication. We agree that per-mouse averaged CSA values would also be informative, but the raw data were not archived in a format that allows reconstruction of mouse-specific fiber subsets.

      Importantly, the group-level CSA distribution differences are robust and remain clearly detectable regardless of statistical approach. We have added clarification in the figure legend to explicitly describe how CSA measurements were obtained and analyzed mouse (pg. 36, lines 796-800).

      (7) Regarding Figure 5, it is unclear why ITGA7, a classical surface marker for MuSCs that appears unchanged in aged YFP+ MuSCs (Fig. 1F), is considered inadequate for detecting and isolating GERI-MuSCs.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this point. As shown in Figure 1F, the mean ITGA7 expression level does not significantly decline in geriatric YFP positive MuSCs. However, the variance of ITGA7 expression is significantly increased in geriatric MuSCs based on the F test, indicating instability in surface marker expression. This suggests that a fraction of MuSCs may fall below the conventional gating threshold for ITGA7 during aging. Therefore, ITGA7 remains effective for identifying a large portion of MuSCs but may under detect the subset of geriatric MuSCs with reduced marker expression. We have revised the Discussion to clarify this point (pg. 16, lines 346-355).

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Figure 3B: In the colony formation assay, the authors should specify the number of biological replicates and the number of cells analyzed per mouse.

      We have now added the number of biological replicates and the number of cells analyzed per mouse in the figure legend of Figure 3B (pg. 37, lines 790-791).

      (2) Figure 3F: The replication number is indicated as n = 3, which appears to refer to the number of transplanted mice. How many myofibers were analyzed in each transplanted mouse? The authors should provide a more detailed description of the methodology in the Figure legend or M&M.

      We thank the reviewer for the question and clarify that n = 3 refers to three independent transplanted mice per group. For each mouse, the entire TA muscle was cryosectioned and immunostained, and all regenerated fibers containing centrally located nuclei were included in the CSA quantification. We have added clarification in the Figure legend to indicate that quantification was performed on all regenerated fibers from each mouse (pg. 37, lines 796-800).

      (3) Figure 4: The RNA-seq results are presented as a single dataset per sample. If multiple experiments were performed, individual datasets should be shown. Replicated analyses are essential to ensure the reliability of the findings.

      In response to the reviewer comment, we confirm that the RNA sequencing in Figure 4 was performed with 3-4 independent biological replicates for each condition. These replicates showed very consistent sequencing quality and gene expression profiles and were therefore combined for the differential expression analysis. We have revised the materials and methods to clearly describe the number of biological replicates and the analysis workflow. (pg. 25, lines 543).

      (4) Line 148: If the authors examined MyoG expression, it should be described as committed myoblasts.

      We have now changed the term from myoblasts to committed myoblasts (pg. 8, line 168).

      (5) Typo and Referencing Errors:

      (a) Line 244: The term 'Antide' appears to be a typo.

      We thank the reviewer for noting this point. ‘Antide’ is not a typo but the correct name of a GnRH antagonist (Antide acetate). To avoid confusion, we have revised the text to specify ‘Antide, a GnRH antagonist’ at its first mention (pg. 13, line 289).

      (b) Lines 278, 280: Please correct Figure 5H to Figure 5F.

      We apologize for this error. We have fixed the figure notations accordingly (pg. 15, lines 326-330).

      (c) Some references are incomplete or inappropriate (ex. line 49, line 71, line 86, line 109).

      We apologize for this error. We have fixed the references accordingly (pg. 4, line 94, pg.6, line 117).

      (d) Line 49: Skeletal muscle regeneration is orchestrated primarily by tissue resident stem cells, known as muscle stem cells (MuSCs) or satellite cells (Relaix et al., 2021). The following paper should be cited:

      Satellite cell of skeletal muscle fibers.

      MAURO A. J Biophys Biochem Cytol. 1961 Feb;9(2):493-5.

      The reference has been revised (pg. 3, line 49).

      (e) Line 109: Paired box protein 7 (Pax7) is a transcription factor widely recognized as a defining marker of MuSCs (Sambasivan et al., 2011). The following paper should be cited:

      Pax7 is required for the specification of myogenic satellite cells.

      Seale P, Sabourin LA, Girgis-Gabardo A, Mansouri A, Gruss P, Rudnicki MA. Cell. 2000 Sep 15;102(6):777-86.

      The reference has been revised (pg.6, line 117).

      (6) Lines 73-74: Many rejuvenation studies define 'aged' mice as 12 to 24 months old. This reviewer is not aware of any studies that have examined 12-month-old MuSCs as a model of aging.

      We apologize for this error. We have fixed the numbers to 18 months accordingly (pg. 4, line 94).

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Geriatric versus aged mice in the MuSC subpopulation analysis. The authors use geriatric mice (>28 months) to demonstrate the loss of VCam expression in MuSCs and propose that this accounts for previous reports of decreased MuSC numbers in aged contexts. However, as noted in their introduction, most reports use "aged" mice, which are typically around 24 months old, which is biologically distinct from the geriatric stage. This distinction makes it difficult to conclude that the reported decline in MuSC numbers in aged mice can be explained by the phenomenon observed only in geriatric mice (Line 289). The authors should test whether VCam expression is altered in aged (24-month-old) mice to strengthen this argument.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s thoughtful comment and agree that 24 month old mice are commonly used as an aged reference in the literature. However, prior studies using 18 to 24 month old animals have reported inconsistent results regarding whether and to what extent MuSCs decline during this period. To avoid ambiguity from intermediate aging stages, we purposefully selected geriatric mice older than 28 months, a condition under which MuSC depletion has been more consistently reported in previous studies. Notably, our data show that even at this stage MuSC abundance is not dramatically reduced, which makes it unlikely that a robust decline would already be present at 24 months. We have clarified this rationale in the revised text. Although investigating the precise timing of the emergence of these changes at earlier time points is an important future direction, it is beyond the scope of the present study.

      (2) Variability and bimodal distributions.

      Figure 1b: The decline in VCAM+ MuSCs in geriatric mice shows high variability - 3 of 7 replicates align more closely with young/mid-aged levels. Please clarify this variability.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out the variability. We agree that there is heterogeneity in the extent of VCAM1 reduction across geriatric mice. This variability likely reflects animal-to-animal differences in the onset and progression of aging-related phenotypes, which are known to vary at very advanced ages. Importantly, despite this variability, all geriatric samples contain a detectable VCAM1 low population that is not observed in young or middle-aged mice, and the overall trend is consistent across all replicates. We have clarified this in the revised manuscript (pg. 6, lines 125-127).

      Figure 1c: While the Mid and Geriatric groups are tightly clustered, the Young group appears bimodal, which challenges the claim (Line 118) that values are "comparable across ages." Since all males were used and it is not sex related, what is driving this bimodal distribution?

      We appreciate the reviewer’s observation regarding the variability in the young group. Muscle stem cells in young adult mice are known to encompass diverse transcriptional and functional substates, which contribute to greater biological heterogeneity at this stage (Biressi et al. 2010; Tierney & Sacco 2016; Motohashi & Asakura 2014). As aging progresses, these substates gradually converge toward a common functional phenotype, resulting in more uniform profiles in middle-aged and geriatric mice. Therefore the bimodal appearance in the young group likely reflects the broader developmental heterogeneity of early adult MuSCs rather than a technical discrepancy. We have added this explanation to the revised in the results section (pg.6. lines 129-134).

      Figure 4D: Geriatric replicates also display a trimodal distribution. This should be addressed throughout - what is causing these types of distribution, and how does this impact significance tests and conclusions?

      We appreciate the reviewer’s observation regarding the multimodal distribution. We interpret this pattern as reflecting increased individual variability that becomes more pronounced at the geriatric stage. Even though aging affects all mice, the extent and timing of age-related phenotypic changes can vary considerably across individuals at very advanced ages. This leads to broader divergence in VCAM1 expression states among geriatric mice. Therefore, when we look at the correlation between VCAM1 High and VCAM1 Low/- population, there exists a significant negative correlation between the two populations (Fig. S3F). We have clarified this interpretation in the text and note that the statistical analysis was performed using the mouse as the biological replicate, so this variability does not alter the overall conclusion (pg.12-13, lines 270-278).

      (3) The fate of the Vcam-low/negative cells should be better assessed. For example, Line 180: Colony formation is low/absent in VCAM-low/- cells. Are these cells still viable? Cell death assays are needed. Is expansion capacity truly impaired, or are the cells simply non-viable? Using gene expression as the only means (Line 300) to suggest not dying is insufficient.

      We thank the reviewer for this important point. As per the reviewer's analysis, there is lack of direct evidence to show that these cells are viable and apoptosis or viability assay would further strengthen our research. However, we carefully suggest that they are viable from the fact that these cells can be isolated by FACS and generate high quality RNA sequencing libraries, which would not be possible if they were undergoing cell death. Moreover, the transcriptomic data indicate upregulation of stress response and senescence associated pathways rather than apoptotic or necrotic signatures. These findings suggest that VCAM low or negative cells are alive but exhibit reduced proliferative and regenerative capacity. We have revised the text to clarify that our data reflect impaired function rather than loss of viability and that apoptosis assays represent a direction for future investigation (pg. 16, 360-366).

      (4) Transplant assays are suggestive, but could use additional characterization. Lines 191 & Figure 3E-F: While representative images match quantification, areas at the edge of VCAM-low/- TAs show signs of regeneration. Please include lower-magnification images. Additionally, assess early post-transplant engraftment efficiency - do certain populations experience a higher loss rate (cell death)? YFP-tracing would also help confirm the donor contribution to fibers.

      While we did not collect additional early time-point samples for new engraftment analyses, we carefully re-examined all available transplantation data, including the distribution and density of YFP<sup>+</sup> donor-derived cells in early post-injury sections. We did not observe patterns suggestive of differential early cell loss between VCAM-high and VCAM-low groups. Thus, although we cannot formally quantify early engraftment efficiency, the existing evidence does not support a model in which differential donor-cell retention accounts for the observed regenerative differences.

      Also, we attempted direct YFP co-staining of regenerated myofibers, but as reported by several groups, YFP signal within mature or regenerating myofibers is often diminished or inconsistent after fixation and permeabilization, making reliable fiber-level YFP detection technically challenging in our system. Therefore, instead, we confirmed donor contribution using PBS-injected control muscles, which lack donor MuSCs, and showed that PBS-injected muscles never generated YFP<sup>+</sup> fibers. This demonstrates that endogenous MuSCs do not contribute to YFP⁺ myofibers in our model, and therefore indirectly supports our suggestion that any YFP⁺-regenerated fiber necessarily originates from transplanted donor cells. We hope the reviewer understands the technical limitations.

      (5) Figure S3D: mRNA profiling suggests Mid-aged MuSCs are more distinct from Geriatric Vcam-hi than expected. This should be addressed or at least elaborated on in text.

      We appreciate this insightful comment. We agree that mid aged VCAM high MuSCs show detectable transcriptional differences from geriatric VCAM high cells. This pattern likely reflects the fact that some aging related molecular changes begin to accumulate gradually during the middle aged stage even before overt functional decline or VCAM1 loss becomes evident. Importantly, however, these transcriptomic shifts do not lead to the emergence of the VCAM low dysfunctional phenotype that is uniquely present in geriatric muscle. We have added clarification to the text noting that molecular alterations arise progressively while the major phenotypic transition in VCAM1 expression and regenerative impairment occurs at the geriatric stage (pg.11, 238-244).

      (6) The conclusion of senescence needs more support. Lines 218-226: p16 is elevated in VCAM-low/- cells, but drawing conclusions on senescence from 1-2 markers (mRNA) is insufficient. DQ Treatment: It's unclear how DQ alters cell composition in the absence of clear senescence markers (besides p16). Since DQ targets BCL-2/anti-apoptotic pathways, analyzing these signaling cascades is necessary. Line 255: The term "terminally senescent" is contradictory. These may be pre-senescent. It's also surprising DQ would target such cells, and further clarification is needed. Lines 307-313: Proposing a revised definition of senescence is premature. These cells may be pre-senescent, and multiple ways to senescence exist (replicative, stress-induced, etc.). Please clarify.

      We agree with the reviewer that the term 'terminally senescent' may be premature and potentially contradictory. Although p16 is elevated in this population, we acknowledge that one or two mRNA markers are insufficient to establish bona fide senescence, and that multiple senescence programs exist, including replicative, stress-induced, and mitochondrial-associated pathways. We have revised this to 'senescent-like' throughout the manuscript to better reflect the complexity of this state. Also, although beyond the scope of this study, we now emphasize that future studies incorporating additional senescence markers, functional assays, and lineage tracing will be required to determine the precise senescence status of VCAM-low MuSCs (pg.17-18, lines 381-392).

      Regarding DQ treatment, we agree that DQ is not selective for senescent cells, as it targets BCL-2–related survival pathways. The reduction of VCAM-low cells after DQ treatment therefore indicates increased dependence on survival signaling in this population rather than providing direct evidence of senescence. We have revised the text to clarify this interpretation (pg.12-13, lines 270-278).

      (7) Figure 5C: The Pax7+ cells appear interstitial rather than sublaminar. This raises questions about the specificity of staining. Providing lower-magnification images with these as insets may help.

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful comment. We agree that the high-magnification image in Figure 5C may give the impression that Pax7<sup>+</sup> cells are interstitial due to the limited field of view. We regret to inform the reviewer that low-magnification images for this sample are not available as these images were obtained via confocal imaging where we only recorded areas of interest. Therefore, we are unable to provide an additional panel at this time and we hope the reviewer understand.

      (8) CD63 and CD200 expression on Pax7-YFP traced cells. Figure 5: YFP-traced geriatric MuSCs co-stained for CD63 and CD200 are essential. Current data only show expression in Young traced cells. It's crucial to confirm whether protein/surface expression persists in geriatric YFP+ (traced) cells. The current Figure 5 F does not appear to include YFP tracing for geriatrics.

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting the importance of confirming CD63 and CD200 expression specifically in Pax7-YFP traced MuSCs from geriatric muscle. The datasets shown in Figure 5F were generated from wild-type C57BL/6 mice using a standard MuSC gating strategy rather than Pax7-YFP animals. All geriatric Pax7-YFP mice available for this study were exhausted during earlier experiments, and additional tissue is not available for new co-staining or FACS analyses. We now state this technical limitation in the manuscript and clarify that the geriatric CD63/CD200 data were obtained from conventionally isolated MuSC populations rather than YFP-traced cells (pg.18-19, lines 407-416).

      Minor points:

      (1) Please show the outliers in addition to the concentric circles. Figures 1B, C, and F are examples, but this should be addressed throughout.

      Outliers have been added where applicable.

      (2) Figure 2C: Was a significance test performed between the 5 dpi and "geri" fractions?

      We thank the reviewer for this important point. We have now performed the requested statistical comparison between the 5 dpi fraction and the geriatric VCAM1-defined subpopulations using the same analysis framework applied in Figure 2 (Kruskal–Wallis test followed by Dunn’s multiple comparisons).

      While 5 dpi MuSCs differed significantly from young MuSCs (adjusted p = 0.0139), the comparisons between 5 dpi and each geriatric subgroup (VCAM-high, -mid, and -low) did not reach statistical significance after correction for multiple testing (adjusted p = 0.17, 0.15, and 0.17, respectively). These results have been added to the revised Figure 2C corresponding figure legend (pg. 36, lines 777-780).

      Importantly, we now clarify in the text that although 5 dpi muscles display a prominent increase in VCAM1-high cells at the population level, this increase does not statistically exceed the variability observed within geriatric subpopulations under the conservative non-parametric testing framework used.

      (3) Line 155: The phrase "Surprisingly, all clusters mapped to quiescent clusters" is misleading; this is expected given the population type.

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful comment. We have revised the sentence to remove the misleading wording and now describe the observation more accurately (pg. 8 lines 180-181).

      (4) Line 211: The figure notation should be corrected from Figure S4E to Figure S3E.

      We apologize for this error. We have fixed the figure notation for Figure S4E to S3E (pg. 11, line 247).

      (5) Line 216: "All of which" seems overstated. Many populations share similar profiles with minor differences.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comment. We agree that the phrase “all of which” overstated the degree of divergence among clusters. We have revised the wording to more accurately reflect the data (pg. 11-12, lines 252-253).

      (6) Line 270: The notations for panels D, E, and F need to be updated to match the figure. Panel "H" is not indicated in Figure 5.

      We apologize for this error. We have fixed the figure notations accordingly (pg. 15, lines 326-336).

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      The manuscript by Xu et al. reported base-resolution mapping of RNA pseudouridylation in five bacterial species, utilizing recently developed BID-seq. They detected pseudouridine (Ψ) in bacterial rRNA, tRNA, and mRNA, and found growth phase-dependent Ψ changes in tRNA and mRNA. They then focused on mRNA and conducted a comparative analysis of Ψ profiles across different bacterial species. Finally, they developed a deep learning model to predict Ψ sites based on RNA sequence and structure.

      This is the first comprehensive Ψ map across multiple bacterial species, and systematically reveals Ψ profiles in rRNA, tRNA, and mRNA under exponential and stationary growth conditions. It provides a valuable resource for future functional studies of Ψ in bacteria.

      We thank Reviewer 1 for the supportive and positive comments, particularly for highlighting the novelty and value of our comprehensive pseudouridine landscapes across multiple bacterial species as a valuable resource for the scientific community.

      Ψ is highly abundant on non-coding RNA such as rRNA and tRNA, while its level on mRNA is very low. The manuscript focuses primarily on mRNA, which raises questions about the data quality and the rigor of the analysis. Many conclusions in the manuscript are speculative, based solely on the sequencing data but not supported by additional experiments.

      We appreciate the insightful comments of Reviewer 1. We fully agree that Ψ is highly abundant on rRNA and tRNA, while its fractions on mRNA are generally lower. Ψ is highly conserved at specific positions in rRNA and tRNA, such as Ψ within tRNA T‑arm (position 55), where it plays essential roles in tRNA structural folding, tRNA stability, and mRNA translation, across plants, mammals, and bacteria[1–3]. However, most Ψ sites in mRNA exhibit lower fractions compared to rRNA and tRNA. This phenomenon is also widely observed in HeLa cell mRNA and plant mRNA, as evidenced by bisulfite-induced deletion sequencing and 2-bromoacrylamide-assisted cyclization sequencing[3–5]. In bacteria, the modifications on mRNA are harder to map and quantify, due to its low abundance in total RNA and difficulty in bacterial rRNA removal. This highlights the significance of our study.

      To prove our data quality and analytical rigor, we first present the most convincing sites in bacteria, as benchmark sites. Specifically, we detected 9 out of 10 known conserved pseudouridine (Ψ) sites in E. coli across two biological replicates [6], displaying notable modification fraction. Ψ516 site in E. coli 16S rRNA, which serves as a benchmark site, consistently exhibited a high modification fraction (~100%) under multiple growth conditions, underscoring the robustness of our method. In other strains, we also observed conserved 16S rRNA Ψ sites.

      To further demonstrate strong reproducibility and sensitivity. We selected three positive Ψ sites from two independent biological replicates for experimental validation, alongside one negative control site, using pseU‑TRACE method[6]. Ct values were first normalized to the corresponding Ct value of the negative control site, and the treated samples were then further normalized to their corresponding input controls (new Supplementary Fig. 2e).

      Four Ψ sites were tested with pseU‑TRACE: Ψ site at position 944 on 23S rRNA, a negative control site located within guaA gene, a Ψ site within clpV1 gene, and an intergenic Ψ site located between guaA and guaB genes. We successfully validated these Ψ sites in P. aeruginosa. The detailed pseU‑TRACE experimental procedures and corresponding data figures have been added to the revised manuscript, in either Results or Methods sections (Line 171-175, 594–617).

      Previous transcriptome-wide mapping of Ψ have primarily relied on CMC-based methods to induce RT truncation signatures at the modified sites, exhibiting a limited Ψ detection sensitivity caused by low labeling efficiency[5]. In contrast, BID-seq method used in this study provides substantially higher sensitivity of Ψ detection, particularly the low-stoichiometry Ψ sites within mRNA. The high reliability and quantitative performance of BID-seq have been extensively validated in prior work using mammalian cells and synthetic Ψ-containing oligonucleotides[4].

      To further ensure robustness and minimize false positives—when identifying low-level mRNA Ψ sites through bioinformatic analysis—we have applied stringent and uniform filtration criteria to all candidate sites on mRNA (new Supplementary Table 1):

      (1) Total sequencing coverage >20 reads in both ‘Treated’ (BID-seq; Σd<sub>t</sub> > 20) and ‘Input’ libraries (Σd<sub>i</sub> > 20);

      (2) An average deletion count >5 in ‘Treated’ libraries;

      (3) An average modification fraction >0.02 (2%) in ‘Treated’ libraries;

      (4) A deletion ratio in ‘Treated’ libraries at least two-fold higher than that in ‘Input’ libraries.

      Sites with a Ψ stoichiometry >0.5 (50%) were classified as highly modified. These filtration criteria have now been explicitly described in Methods section (Lines 739–745). We strictly adhered to these Ψ site identification standards, leading to all subsequent analysis and functional studies.

      Finally, to address concerns regarding reproducibility, we calculated mRNA Ψ site overlap and correlation of Ψ fractions, between two biological replicates, which has been presented in (new Supplementary Fig. 2a,d).

      Overall, we have revised the manuscript to clarify these methodological strengths, and validate mRNA Ψ detection. We also tone down all speculative conclusions, with more clear linkage to the actual sequencing data, which await future functional validation.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this study, Xu et al. present a transcriptome-wide, single-base resolution map of RNA pseudouridine modifications across evolutionarily diverse bacterial species using an adapted form of BID-Seq. By optimizing the method for bacterial RNA, the authors successfully mapped modifications in rRNA, tRNA, and, importantly, mRNA across both exponential and stationary growth phases. They uncover evolutionarily conserved Ψ motifs, dynamic Ψ regulation tied to bacterial growth state, and propose functional links between pseudouridylation and bacterial transcript stability, translation, and RNA-protein interactions. To extend these findings, they develop a deep learning model that predicts pseudouridine sites from local sequence and structural features.

      Strengths:

      The authors provide a valuable resource: a comprehensive Ψ atlas for bacterial systems, spanning hundreds of mRNAs and multiple species. The work addresses a gap in the field - our limited understanding of bacterial epitranscriptomics, by establishing both the method and datasets for exploring post-transcriptional modifications.

      We thank Reviewer 2 for the supportive and positive comments. We appreciate the reviewer’s recognition of the novelty and value of our work in providing a comprehensive pseudouridine atlas across multiple bacterial species.

      Weaknesses:

      The main limitation of the study is that most functional claims (i.e., translation efficiency, mRNA stability, and RNA-binding protein interactions) are based on correlative evidence. While suggestive, these inferences would be significantly strengthened by targeted perturbation of specific Ψ synthases or direct biochemical validation of proposed RNA-protein interactions (e.g., with Hfq).

      We thank Reviewer 2 for the constructive feedback. We fully agree that our functional claims regarding translation efficiency, mRNA stability, and RNA-binding protein interactions rely primarily on correlative evidence from existing datasets rather than a direct experimental validation. We agree that the perturbation of specific pseudouridine synthases and direct biochemical validation of proposed RNA-protein interactions (for instance, Hfq) would substantially strengthen the conclusions on bacterial Ψ function. In Discussion section, we have added a discussion on this limitation of our current study (Line 517–523). Considering the scope of our current work, we anticipate such validation experiments in future research.

      Additionally, the GNN prediction model is a notable advance, but methodological details are insufficient to reproduce or assess its robustness.

      In response to methodological concerns regarding our pseU_GNN prediction model, we have undertaken substantial improvements to address these issues comprehensively. We have updated the complete codebase on GitHub (https://github.com/Dylan-LT/pseU_NN.git) with comprehensive documentation and a user-friendly prediction tool specifically designed for Ψ site prediction across the four bacterial species examined in this study.

      We further systematically evaluated multiple neural network architectures and implemented critical architectural refinements. Specifically, we incorporated bidirectional LSTM (bid-LSTM) layers upstream of the transformer block to more effectively capture sequential dependencies and contextual information in RNA sequences. This enhanced architecture demonstrates substantially improved predictive performance, achieving an AUC-ROC of 0.89 on independent test datasets using 41-nucleotide input sequences (new Figure 6).

      We have revised Figure 6 and Supplementary Fig. 7, along with their corresponding content and figure legends (Lines 428-430, 434–436, 440-447, 1065-1073), to reflect these architectural improvements and performance enhancements. We have detailed the methods part (Lines 679–708), including model architecture, validation methods and evaluation score calculation. Additionally, we have provided detailed documentation of the evaluation score calculation methodology to ensure reproducibility and transparency.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study aimed to investigate pseudouridylation across various RNA species in multiple bacterial strains using an optimized BID-seq approach. It examined both conserved and divergent modification patterns, the potential functional roles of pseudouridylation, and its dynamic regulation across different growth conditions.

      Strengths:

      The authors optimized the BID-seq method and applied this important technique to bacterial systems, identifying multiple pseudouridylation sites across different species. They investigated the distribution of these modifications, associated sequence motifs, their dynamics across growth phases, and potential functional roles. These data are of great interest to researchers focused on understanding the significance of RNA modifications, particularly mRNA modifications, in bacteria.

      We thank Reviewer 3 for the supportive and positive assessment. We are particularly grateful for the reviewer’s acknowledgment of the value of our analyses on modification distribution, sequence motifs, growth‑phase dynamics, and potential functional roles, which we hope will be of broad interest to researchers studying bacterial RNA modifications, particularly mRNA Ψ.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The reliability of BID-seq data is questionable due to a lack of experimental validations.

      We thank Reviewer 3 for the constructive feedback. We have undertaken comprehensive revisions to address the concerns regarding manuscript structure and information organization. We have incorporated pseU‑TRACE experiments and data quality results to provide orthogonal validation of Ψ detection, strengthening the robustness of our work.

      Here we copied the response in Reviewer 1 section:

      “To further demonstrate strong reproducibility and sensitivity. We selected three positive Ψ sites from two independent biological replicates for experimental validation, alongside one negative control site, using pseU‑TRACE method[6]. Ct values were first normalized to the corresponding Ct value of the negative control site, and the treated samples were then further normalized to their corresponding input controls (new Supplementary Fig. 2e ).

      Four Ψ sites were tested with pseU‑TRACE: Ψ site at position 944 on 23S rRNA, a negative control site located within guaA gene, a Ψ site within clpV1 gene, and an intergenic Ψ site located between guaA and guaB genes. We successfully validated these Ψ sites in P. aeruginosa. The detailed pseU‑TRACE experimental procedures and corresponding data figures have been added to the revised manuscript, in either Results or Methods sections (Line 171-175, 594–617).”

      (2) The manuscript is not well-written, and the presented work shows a major lack of scientific rigor, as several key pieces of information are missing.

      We thank Reviewer 3 for the suggestion. We restructured the main text to present a clearer logical flow, with key objectives (Lines 83–96, 171–175, 428–447, 517-523) explicitly stated in Introduction section and Conclusions section, with data figures directly addressing these stated aims (Supplementary Fig. 1–7).

      (3) The manuscript's organization requires significant improvement, and numerous instances of missing or inconsistent information make it difficult to understand the key objectives and conclusions of the study.

      We thank Reviewer 3 for the constructive feedback. All supplementary figures have been updated with detailed figure legend, methodology description, and consistent formatting. We also systematically inspected and resolved instances of missing or inconsistent information throughout the main text and supplementary materials (Supplementary Fig. 1–7; Supplementary Table 1). To enhance computational reproducibility, we have updated our GitHub repository with well-documented code and developed user-friendly prediction tools for Ψ identification across the four bacterial species examined in this study.

      (4) The rationale for selecting specific bacterial species is not clearly explained, and the manuscript lacks a systematic comparison of pseudouridylation among these species.

      We thank Reviewer 3 for the constructive feedback. The bacterial species analyzed in this study were selected based on both diversity and significance. K. pneumoniae, B. cereus, and P. aeruginosa are top model human pathogens responsible for a wide range of clinically significant infections, yet transcriptome-wide pseudouridylation has not been systematically explored in these organisms[7–9]. P. syringae, the most important model plant pathogen, was included to extend our analysis beyond human pathogens and to examine Ψ modification in a distinct ecological and evolutionary context, where epitranscriptomic regulation also remains poorly characterized[10]. Importantly, the selected species represent both Gram-positive (B. cereus) and Gram-negative (K. pneumoniae, P. aeruginosa, and P. syringae) bacteria, spanning substantial differences in genome size, GC content, lifestyle, and pathogenic strategies. This diversity enables a comparative framework for examining conserved and species-specific pseudouridylation patterns across bacterial lineages.

      To address the reviewer’s concern, we have revised the manuscript to more clearly articulate the rationale for species selection and have added a comparative analysis highlighting similarities and differences in Ψ site distribution and modification levels among these species (Lines 83–96). We systematically compared Ψ-carrying motif for analyzing sequence context of 10 bases flanking Ψ sites in bacterial mRNA, with Supplementary Fig. 4 added.

      Reference

      (1) Leppik, M., Liiv, A. & Remme, J. Random pseuoduridylation in vivo reveals critical region of Escherichia coli 23S rRNA for ribosome assembly. Nucleic Acids Res. 45, (2017).

      (2) Rajan, K. S. et al. A single pseudouridine on rRNA regulates ribosome structure and function in the mammalian parasite Trypanosoma brucei. Nat. Commun. 14, (2023).

      (3) Li, H. et al. Quantitative RNA pseudouridine maps reveal multilayered translation control through plant rRNA, tRNA and mRNA pseudouridylation. Nat. Plants 11, 234–247 (2025).

      (4) Dai, Q. et al. Quantitative sequencing using BID-seq uncovers abundant pseudouridines in mammalian mRNA at base resolution. Nat. Biotechnol. 41, 344–354 (2023).

      (5) Xu, H. et al. Absolute quantitative and base-resolution sequencing reveals comprehensive landscape of pseudouridine across the human transcriptome. Nat. Methods 21, 2024–2033 (2024).

      (6) Fang, X. et al. A bisulfite-assisted and ligation-based qPCR amplification technology for locus-specific pseudouridine detection at base resolution. Nucleic Acids Res. 52, (2024).

      (7) Wyres, K. L., Lam, M. M. C. & Holt, K. E. Population genomics of Klebsiella pneumoniae. Nature Reviews Microbiology vol. 18 Preprint at https://doi.org/10.1038/s41579-019-0315-1 (2020).

      (8) Kerr, K. G. & Snelling, A. M. Pseudomonas aeruginosa: a formidable and ever-present adversary. Journal of Hospital Infection vol. 73 Preprint at https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jhin.2009.04.020 (2009).

      (9) Ehling-Schulz, M., Lereclus, D. & Koehler, T. M. The Bacillus cereus Group: Bacillus Species with Pathogenic Potential . Microbiol. Spectr. 7, (2019).

      (10) Xin, X. F., Kvitko, B. & He, S. Y. Pseudomonas syringae: What it takes to be a pathogen. Nature Reviews Microbiology vol. 16 Preprint at https://doi.org/10.1038/nrmicro.2018.17 (2018).

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This important study functionally profiled ligands targeting the LXR nuclear receptors using biochemical assays in order to classify ligands according to pharmacological functions. Overall, the evidence is solid, but nuances in the reconstituted biochemical assays and cellular studies and terminology of ligand pharmacology limit the potential impact of the study. This work will be of interest to scientists interested in nuclear receptor pharmacology.

      Strengths:

      (1) The authors rigorously tested their ligand set in CRTs for several nuclear receptors that could display ligand-dependent cross-talk with LXR cellular signaling and found that all compounds display LXR selectivity when used at ~1 µM.

      (2) The authors tested the ligand set for selectivity against two LXR isoforms (alpha and beta). Most compounds were found to be LXRbeta-specific.

      The majority of ligands were found to be LXRβ-selective; however, examples of non-selective and LXRα-selective ligands were identified. It should be noted that this is a small compound set of literature ligands with reasonable structural diversity.

      (3) The authors performed extensive LXR CRTs, performed correlation analysis to cellular transcription and gene expression, and classification profiling using heatmap analysis-seeking to use relatively easy-to-collect biochemical assays with purified ligand-binding domain (LBD) protein to explain the complex activity of full-length LXR-mediated transcription.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The descriptions of some observations lack detail, which limits understanding of some key concepts.

      Changes to the submitted manuscript hopefully add clarity. Several observations reinforce aspects of the literature and are a corollary of the observation that the majority of ligands with agonist activity more strongly stabilize/induce coactivator-bound complexes with LXRβ. This results in general LXRβ selectivity for agonists and also more variability in the response of LXRα to different ligand chemotypes. The most significant observations were for partial agonists that stabilize corepressor binding, in particular of the complex with LXRα.

      (2) The presence of endogenous NR ligands within cells may confound the correlation of ligand activity of cellular assays to biochemical assay data.

      This is generally a confounding factor for ligands with apparent antagonist activity and is a source of ambiguity in designating inverse agonists across the nuclear receptor research field. Theoretically, this could also impact weak and partial agonists; however, this requires further study.

      (3) The normalization of biochemical assay data could confound the classification of graded activity ligands.

      Normalization to TO (100%) and vehicle (0%) is applied to most data. It is not clear how this confounds data interpretation. TO is a very reliable and reproducible agonist without significant bias towards LXR isoforms.

      (4) The presence of >1 coregulator peptide in the biplex (n=2 peptides) CRT (pCRT) format will bias the LBD conformation towards the peptide-bound form with the highest binding affinity, which will impact potency and interpretation of TR-FRET data.

      Multiplex assays must be optimized to balance binding affinity of the coregulator peptides (bear in mind these are somewhat-artificial small peptide constructs that are hoped to reflect binding of the much larger coregulator protein itself). Since the dominant theory of NR tissue-selectivity is based on the cellular availability (read concentration) of coregulators, this balance exists in a cellular context.

      (5) Correlation graphical plots lack sufficient statistical testing.

      Correlations are now supported by statistical data and we have added hierarchical clustering analysis.

      (6) Some of the proposed ligand pharmacology nomenclature is not clear and deviates from classifications used currently in the field (e.g., hard and soft antagonist; weak vs. partial agonist, definition of an inverse agonist that is not the opposite function to an agonist).

      Classifications used currently in the field vary from one NR to another and the use of partial and inverse agonist, in particular, is usually qualitative, unclear, and often misleading. We expand on these classifications with respect to our use of labels to classify pCRT response to LXR ligands. In agreement with the reviewer, we have replaced IA (inverse agonist) with (RA) reverse agonist as a label specifically associated with pCRT analysis.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript by Laham and co-workers, the authors profiled structurally diverse LXR ligands via a coregulator TR-FRET (CRT) assay for their ability to recruit coactivators and kick off corepressors, while identifying coregulator preference and LXR isoform selectivity.

      The relative ligand potencies measured via CRT for the two LXR isoforms were correlated with ABCA1 induction or lipogenic activation of SRE, depending on cellular contexts (i.e, astrocytoma or hepatocarcinoma cells). While these correlations are interesting, there is some leeway to improve the quantitative presentation of these correlations. Finally, the CRT signatures were correlated with the structural stabilization of the LXR: coregulator complexes. In aggregate, this study curated a set of LXR ligands with disparate agonism signatures that may guide the design of future nonlipogenic LXR agonists with potential therapeutic applications for cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer's, and type 2 diabetes, without inducing mechanisms that promote fat/lipid production.

      Strengths:

      This study has many strengths, from curating an excellent LXR compound set to the thoughtful design of the CRT and cellular assays. The design of a multiplexed precision CRT (pCRT) assay that detects corepressor displacement as a function of ligand-induced coactivator recruitment is quite impressive, as it allows measurement of ligand potencies to displace corepressors in the presence of coactivators, which cannot be achieved in a regular CRT assay that looks at coactivator recruitment and corepressor dissociation in separate experiments.

      Weaknesses:

      I did not identify any major weaknesses.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Page 2. "The endogenous ligands ... activate LXR via canonical or alternate mechanisms." What is an alternate mechanism?

      Small modifications to Fig. 1 caption identify a mechanism alternative to the canonical mechanism: LXR transcriptional complexes are RXR heterodimers that can be activated by a canonical mechanism of coregulator recruitment or an alternative de-repression mechanism

      (2) Page 5: "Notably, the 25 amino acid SRC-1 peptide is the only coactivator tested for LXR binding that has the fluorophore remote from the coactivator peptide." What does this mean, and could it influence the results?

      The sentence has been expanded to clarify the meaning. Notably, the 25 amino acid SRC-1 peptide is the only coactivator, amongst those tested for LXR binding, which has the fluorophore remote from the coactivator peptide: i.e., the only coactivator tested that uses a fluorophore labeled anti-tag antibody to bind the tagged coactivator rather than a fluorophore-labeled coactivator. In methods based on fluorescent tags (CRT, TR-FRET, fluorescence polarization, etc.), a fluorophore that interacts directly with the receptor can generate a maximal signal that differs depending on this interaction: i.e. the identity of the coregulator used in CRT can influence the response. As seen in Figures 6 and S6, maximal response is dependent on ligand and coregulator.

      (3) Page 5: "The [CRT] assay measures the EC50 for coactivator recruitment, a measure of ligand binding affinity." The dose-dependent activity in the CRT assays is more classically defined as a functional "potency", not "affinity".

      The text is changed to remove “measure of affinity”: The assay measures the ligand-dependent EC<sub>50</sub> for ligand-induced coactivator recruitment to LXR; the affinity of the ligand for the LXR:coregulator complex contributes to this potency

      (4) Page 5: "Perhaps surprisingly, considering the description of multiple LXR ligands as partial agonists, most agonists studied gave maximal response at the same level as T0, behaving as full agonists." Can the authors speculate as to why partial agonist activity is not observed in their CRT assays when it has been observed in CRT assays for other nuclear receptors?

      This section has been reworded and please note the apparent partial agonist activity observed in CRT assays for multiple coactivators as shown in Figures 6 and S6 (also see (2) above). Although many LXR ligands have been reported to display partial agonist activity, most agonists studied in this specific biotin-SRC-1 CRT assay, gave maximal response at the same level as T0, behaving as full agonists.

      (5) Page 5: "Conformational cooperativity of LBD residues beyond these two amino acids leads to different conformations of Leu274 and Ala275 that generally favor ligand binding to LXRβ." Where are these residues located? Why are they important?

      We have simplified this paragraph that introduces the interesting observations and interpretation of Ding et al. to illustrate potential contributions to isoform selectivity: The ligand binding pockets of the two LXR isoforms differ by only one amino acid located in helix-3. (H3: LXRα-Val263 and LXRβ-Ile277) Interestingly, correction of this difference by mutation of these residues to alanine (V263A and I277A) was observed to lower, but not to ablate isoform selectivity in reporter assays.[108] Supported by modeling studies, this observation by Ding et al. led to the suggestion that conformational cooperativity of LBD residues beyond these two amino acids, generally favors ligand binding to LXRβ. Therefore, most reported ligands, including those examined in the current work, are LXRβ-selective or non-selective.

      (6) Some correlation plots are described to show "poor" correlations without showing the underlying statistical fits. All correlation plots should show Pearson and Spearman correlation coefficients and p-values within the figures.

      This section of the manuscript has been completely reworked with full correlation analysis and stats . There is no substantive change in data interpretation.

      (7) The normalization of TR-FRET data could introduce undesired bias when comparing activities. The methods section should provide more details about normalization of CRT data, including stating whether the control compounds' activity data were collected on the same CRT 384-well plate on the same day, or different plates, or different days, etc.

      This is now clarified in SI materials and methods section. In-plate controls are always used.

      (8) The authors describe their pCRT assay as "multiplex", whereas "biplex" might be more accurate, as they only used two peptides.

      Biplex is commonly used referring to qPCR. Bio-Plex is a commercial version of an antibody assay. Duplex is obviously a term used in nucleic acid research. Therefore, multiplex is a simpler, more generic term that we feel is suitable and can be extended to add a third coregulator.

      (9) The pCRT assays use the same peptide concentrations (200 nM). However, the peptides will have different affinities for the LBD, which may bias ligand-dependent pCRT profiles. The peptide that binds with higher affinity in the absence of ligand will bias the LBD conformation and impact ligand affinity. Can the authors comment on any limitations of the pCRT approach vs. a normal CRT? Did the authors perform any optimization to see if increasing peptide concentrations (>200 nM) or having different concentrations (e.g., 400 nM SRC1 and 200 nM NCorR2) influences the pCRT data, extracted parameters, correlations, etc.?

      As we write in the Limitations section, our assays are focused on ligand-dependence, whereas other excellent studies focus more on coregulator-dependence. The length and affinity of peptide constructs varies and therefore it is important to “balance” corepressor and coactivator concentrations. The most important conclusions from our pCRT assays concern the ability of some ligands to stabilize corepressor binding in the monoplex CRT and the universal ability of coactivator complex stabilization to eject the corepressor in the multiplex assay. Furthermore, without measurements and correlations in “natural” cellular contexts, the CRT data obtained in cell-free conditions is somewhat artificial. We evaluated a range of peptide concentrations to assess signal-to-background and overall assay performance. Each new receptor added to the panel underwent rigorous optimization to establish robust and reliable assay conditions. This included identifying a suitable positive control for each receptor, determining the optimal coregulator selection and concentration, and refining other key parameters such as buffer composition and total well volume. The concentrations reported represent the optimized balance—producing a strong, reproducible signal without oversaturation or disproportionate contribution from any individual assay component.

      (10) Page 11. The authors introduce a few ligand classification terms that are not standard in the field and unclear: "soft" vs. "hard" antagonist, "weak" vs. "partial" agonist, and their definition of an inverse agonist that, in classical pharmacologic terms, should have an opposite (inverse) function to an agonist. Furthermore, the presence of endogenous LXR ligands within cells may confound the correlation of ligand activity of cellular assays to biochemical assay data. See the following paper for an example of ligand-dependent classification and activation mechanisms when there are endogenous cellular ligands at play: https://elifesciences.org/articles/47172

      The paragraph discussing nomenclature went through many iterations of terminology and a further paragraph was removed that discussed problems with ligand classification in the broader field of NR pharmacology: this has now been added back. We apologise for not citing the excellent Strutzenberg et al. paper on RORa pharmacology, which is now included. In this paper, Griffin and co-workers also use terms that are not standard in the field, such as “silent agonist”, which covers, in part, ligands that we describe as “weak agonists”. A standard, definitive lexicon of terms across NRs is unfortunately problematic. We have added 2 paragraphs:

      The nomenclature for NR ligands often lacks precision and differs across NR classes. SERM (a subset of selective NR modulator) is used to describe varied families of ER ligands that show tissue-selective agonist and/or antagonist actions. Unfortunately, “partial agonist” is also widely used to describe SERMs, even though its use is usually pharmacologically incorrect and biased agonist may be a more accurate label.[124] The majority of reported ER ligands are SERMs, even some that cause ER degradation, because they are transcriptionally active. Consequently, the term “pure antagonist” (PA) has been used to differentiate transcriptionally null ligands[125]; although, pure antagonist/antiestrogen was originally introduced to describe antagonism of both AF1 and AF2 functions.[90]

      Elegant work by Griffin’s team on RAR-related orphan receptor C (RORɣ) is interesting, because it used a combination of HDX-MS and CRT and defined categories of RORɣ ligands.[126] In addition to full agonist, “silent agonist” was introduced to include endogenous and synthetic partial agonists; although, by definition, partial agonists should antagonize full agonists. On the antagonist side of the spectrum, “active antagonist” was used to describe ligands that reduce cellular activity to baseline; and “inverse agonist” for ligands that reduce cellular transcription below baseline and induce recruitment of corepressors. Curiously, inverse agonist has almost never been used to describe ER ligands and is used frequently for other NR ligands, mostly for ligands that reduce transcription below baseline, without any evidence for corepressor recruitment. GSK2033 and SR9238 show inverse agonist activity in cells (Figs 3, 5); however, neither is capable of recruiting SMRT2 or NCOR2 to LXR (Fig. 7).

      (11) Figure 9A and Figure S8. Could hierarchical clustering analysis be used to more rigorously compare the activities of the ligands?

      We have now added hierarchical clustering analysis (Figs 4 S4). It should be noted that the value of such an analysis is much higher when the number of ligands is increased.

      (12) How does cellular potency correlate to pCRT vs. CRT potencies? Does pCRT better explain cellular potency?

      We have added this specific correlation (multiplex CRT vs. monoplex CRT).

      (13) The authors should provide an SI table of parameters (potency values) used for correlation and heatmap analyses.

      Tables have been added to SI accordingly.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      This manuscript has many strengths, but can still be improved by addressing the following critiques:

      (1) I am surprised the team did not find a ligand with a higher efficacy than T0. Please would you explain why T0 seems to have maxed out ligand efficacy for both LXRalpha and LXRbeta?

      Several ligands gave superior efficacy to T0 in cell-based reporter assays and in CRT assays shown in Figures 6 and S6: AZ876, BE1218, and MK9 gave maximal response higher than that of T0.

      (2) In the subsection, "Activity and isoform selectivity of LXR ligands", you mentioned that "The assay measures the EC50 for coactivator recruitment, a measure of ligand binding affinity." This is incorrect. EC50 is a measure of ligand potency, not affinity.

      See Reviewer-1 (3)

      (3) In Figure 3 it is unclear what was used to normalize the antagonist responses in Panel F. Also, I recommend changing the y-axis of Panel F to -100 to 50 to get a better view of the response.

      This has been clarified: zero is vehicle control. Change to y-axis is made.

      (4) In Figure 4, the correlation R-squared values should be presented as a Table to have a better qualitative assessment of the correlations. It is challenging to judge which correlations are better by relying only on visual inspection. I also recommend moving the two panels from Figure S3 to Figure 4 as panels E and F.

      Extensive changes to Figure 4 have been made in response to this comment and that of Reviewer 1, who wanted these values in the figures: Reviewer-1 points (6) and (12).

      (5) In Figure 5, the fold changes in panels G, H, and I could better be presented as a bar graph. Also, the cytotoxicity of ligands needs to be assessed. For instance, in BE1218, there is a sharp decrease in fold change going from ~1 uM to ~10 uM. This will also confirm if the downward trends for SR9238 and GSK2033 are "real" and not as a result of cells dying off at higher ligand concentrations.

      Across our many studies on potent NR ligands, at concentrations above 3 uM, cell growth inhibition is observed. This is true for ER ligands, such as tamoxifen, with explanations in the literature including membrane disruption and low-affinity cytoplasmic binding proteins. We include cell viability measurements in Supplemental as a specific response to the reviewer’s query. There is no loss of cell viability in HepG2 cells.

      (6) Several ligands induce recruitment of coactivators but with minimal ability to displace corepressors. Physiologically, what would be the expected effect of these ligands on LXR activity?\

      We have defined such ligands from pCRT analysis as weak agonists (WA); however, pCRT shows WA ligands induce corepressor loss in the presence of coactivator. Depending on coregulator balance and isoform expression and the importance of the derepression mechanism in a specific cell context, WA ligands might be expected to be differentiated from SA (strong agonist) ligands.

      (7) In the subsection, "synchronous coregulator recruitment by multiplex, precision CRT" you mentioned that "For LXRbeta, the correlation between SRC1 recruitment in monoplex and multiplexed CRT is good," but the data is not shown. I think it would be better to show this data for transparency.

      See query (4) and Reviewer-1. Done.

      (8) In Figure 9, Panel A, the heat map is quantitated as 0-150. Is this fold change? If so, add this label to the figure legend.

      It is Normalized Response as %, which is now added.

      (9) In Figure 9, Panel B, please explain why in all cases, CoA-bound LXR resides at a higher energy level than the CoR-bound, and the apo LXR is at a lower energy level than the CoA-bound protein. A coregulator-bound (holo) protein structure is generally a lower energy (more stable) structure than the unbound (apo) protein. The binding of a coregulator stabilizes the protein's conformation and shifts the equilibrium towards a more thermodynamically favorable state. Using the same argument, it does not make sense to me that the CoR-bound LXR is on the same energy level as the apo LXR.

      This schema reflects our observations in pCRT. No signal was observed for coactivator-bound (holo) protein in the absence of ligand; whereas, a signal was observed for corepressor-bound (holo) protein in the absence of ligand. Therefore, the CoA-bound LXR is higher energy than apo-LXR (+ unbound CoA). Conversely, the signal for CoR-bound LXR can be reduced or increased by ligands, requiring the CoA-bound LXR to be of similar energy to apo-LXR (+ unbound CoR).

      (10) In the Figure 9b caption, "measured at 1uM" pertains to the concentration of ligand or coregulator? This is unclear. You should report the concentration of both ligand and coregulator.

      Clarified in caption.

      (11) In Figure S4, signal for SR9238 shoot up to ~300 units for ligand concentrations >3 uM. Please explain what could have contributed to this anomalous activation and why this was moved to the Supplementary File and not shown in the main figure (Figure 5).

      The HepG2-SRE assay is a nano-luc reporter assay, unlike the CCF-ABCA1 that is a firefly luciferase assay. There is substantial anecdotal evidence that furimazine/nano-luc is susceptible to stabilization enhancement. The RT-PCR data presented in Fig. 5 confirms that this is an artifact for some biphenyl sulfones.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      eLife Assessment

      This study presents results supporting a model that tumorous germline stem cells (GSCs) in the Drosophila ovary mimic the stem cell niche and inhibit the differentiation of neighboring cells. The valuable findings show that GSC tumors often contain non-mutant cells whose differentiation is suppressed by the GSC tumorous cells. However, the evidence showing that the GSC tumors produce BMP ligands to suppress differentiation of non-mutant cells is incomplete. It could be strengthened by the use of sensitive RNA in situ hybridization approaches.

      Thank you for your valuable assessment. RNA in situ hybridization evidence has been added to the revised manuscript (Figure 5A-D) to support that GSC tumors produce BMP ligands.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This preprint from Shaowei Zhao and colleagues presents results that suggest tumorous germline stem cells (GSCs) in the Drosophila ovary mimic the ovarian stem cell niche and inhibit the differentiation of neighboring non-mutant GSC-like cells. The authors use FRT-mediated clonal analysis driven by a germline-specific gene (nos-Gal4, UASp-flp) to induce GSC-like cells mutant for bam or bam's co-factor bgcn. Bam-mutant or bgcn-mutant germ cells produce tumors in the stem cell compartment (the germarium) of the ovary (Figure 1). These tumors contain non-mutant cells - termed SGC for single-germ cells. 75% of SGCs do not exhibit signs of differentiation (as assessed by bamP-GFP) (Figure 2). The authors demonstrate that block in differentiation in SGC is a result of suppression of bam expression (Figure 2). They present data suggesting that in 73% of SGCs, BMP signaling is low (assessed by dad-lacZ) (Figure 3) and proliferation is less in SGCs vs GSCs. They present genetic evidence that mutations in BMP pathway receptors and transcription factors suppress some of the non-autonomous effects exhibited by SGCs within bam-mutant tumors (Figure 4). They show data that bam-mutant cells secrete Dpp, but this data is not compelling (see below) (Figure 5). They provide genetic data that loss of BMP ligands (dpp and gbb) suppresses the appearance of SGCs in bam-mutant tumors (Figure 6). Taken together, their data support a model in which bam-mutant GSC-like cells produce BMPs that act on non-mutant cells (i.e., SGCs) to prevent their differentiation, similar to what is seen in the ovarian stem cell niche.

      Strengths:

      (1) Use of an excellent and established model for tumorous cells in a stem cell microenvironment.

      (2) Powerful genetics allow them to test various factors in the tumorous vs non-tumorous cells.

      (3) Appropriate use of quantification and statistics.

      We greatly appreciate your valuable comments.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) What is the frequency of SGCs in nos>flp; bam-mutant tumors? For example, are they seen in every germarium, or in some germaria, etc, or in a few germaria?

      This is a good question. Because the SGC phenotype depends on the presence of both germline tumor clones and out-of-niche wild-type germ cells, our quantification was restricted to germaria containing both. In 14-day-old fly ovaries, 70% of germaria (432/618) met this criterion (Line 103). Each of them contained an average of 1.5 SGCs (Figure 1K).

      (2) Does the breakdown in clonality vary when they induce hs-flp clones in adults as opposed to in larvae/pupae?

      Our attempts to induce ovarian hs-FLP germline clones by heat-shocking adult flies were unsuccessful, with very few clones being observed. Therefore, we shifted our approach to an earlier developmental stage. Successful induction was achieved by subjecting late-L3/early-pupal animals to a twice-daily heatshock at 37°C for 6 consecutive days (2 hours per session with a 6-hour interval, see Lines 331-335) (Zhao et al., 2018).

      (3) Approximately 20-25% of SGCs are bam+, dad-LacZ+. Firstly, how do the authors explain this? Secondly, of the 70-75% of SGCs that have no/low BMP signaling, the authors should perform additional character rization using markers that are expressed in GSCs (i.e., Sex lethal and nanos).

      These 20-25% of SGCs are bamP-GFP<sup>+</sup> dad-lacZ<sup>-</sup>, not bam<sup>+</sup> dad-lacZ<sup>+</sup> (see Figure 2C and 3D). They would be cystoblast-like cells that may have initiated a differentiation program toward forming germline cysts (see Lines 122-130). The 70-75% of SGCs that have low BMP signaling exhibit GSC-like properties, including: 1) dot-like spectrosomes; 2) dad-lacZ positivity; 3) absence of bamP-GFP expression. While additional markers would be beneficial, we think that this combination of properties is sufficient to classify these cells as GSC-like.

      (4) All experiments except Figure 1I (where a single germarium with no quantification) were performed with nos-Gal4, UASp-flp. Have the authors performed any of the phenotypic characterizations (i.e., figures other than Figure 1) with hs-flp?

      Yes, we initially identified the SGC phenotype through hs-FLP-mediated mosaic analysis of bam or bgcn mutant in ovaries. However, as noted in our response to Weakness (2), this approach was very labor-intensive. Therefore, we switched to using the more convenient nos>FLP system for subsequent experiments. To our observation, there was no difference in inducing the SGC phenotype by these two approaches.

      (5) Does the number of SGCs change with the age of the female? The experiments were all performed in 14-day-old adult females. What happens when they look at a young female (like 2-day-old). I assume that the nos>flp is working in larval and pupal stages, and so the phenotype should be present in young females. Why did the authors choose this later age? For example, is the phenotype more robust in older females? Or do you see more SGCs at later time points?

      These are very good questions. The SGC phenotype was consistent over the 14-day analysis period (Figure 1J) and was specifically dependent on the presence of germline tumor clones. In 14-day-old fly ovaries, these clones were both larger and more frequent than in younger flies. This age-dependent enhancement in clone size and frequency significantly improved our quantification efficiency (see Lines 101-112).

      (6) Can the authors distinguish one copy of GFP versus 2 copies of GFP in germ cells of the ovary? This is not possible in the Drosophila testis. I ask because this could impact the clonal analyses diagrammed in Figure 4A and 4G and in 6A and B. Additionally, in most of the figures, the GFP is saturated, so it is not possible to discern one vs two copies of GFP.

      Thank you for this valuable comment. It was also difficult for us to distinguish 1 and 2 copies of GFP in the Drosophila ovary. In Figure 4A-F, to resolve this problem, we used a triple-color system, in which red germ cells (RFP<sup>+/+</sup> GFP<sup>-/-</sup>) are bam mutant, yellow germ cells (RFP<sup>+/-</sup> GFP<sup>+/-</sup>) are wild-type, and green germ cells (RFP<sup>-/-</sup> GFP<sup>+/+</sup>) are punt or med mutant. In Figure 4G-J, we quantified the SGC phenotype only in black germ cells (GFP<sup>-/-</sup>), which are wild-type (control) or mad mutant. In Figure 6, we quantified the SGC phenotype only in green germ cells (both GFP<sup>+/+</sup> and GFP<sup>+/-</sup>), all of which are wild-type.

      (7) More evidence is needed to support the claim of elevated Dpp levels in bam or bgcn mutant tumors. The current results with the dpp-lacZ enhancer trap in Figure 5A, B are not convincing. First, why is the dpp-lacZ so much brighter in the mosaic analysis (A) than in the no-clone analysis (B)? It is expected that the level of dpp-lacZ in cap cells should be invariant between ovaries, and yet LacZ is very faint in Figure 5B. I think that if the settings in A matched those in B, the apparent expression of dpp-lacZ in the tumor would be much lower and likely not statistically significant. Second, they should use RNA in situ hybridization with a sensitive technique like hybridization chain reactions (HCR) - an approach that has worked well in numerous Drosophila tissues, including the ovary.

      Thank you for this critical comment. The settings of immunofluorescent staining and confocal parameters in the original Figure 5A were the same as those in 5B. To our observation, the levels of dpp-lacZ in terminal filament and cap cells were highly variable across germaria, even within the same ovary. We have omitted these results from the revised Figure 5. Instead, the HCR-FISH data have been added (Figure 5A-D) to support that bam mutant germline tumors secret BMP ligands.

      (8) In Figure 6, the authors report results obtained with the bamBG allele. Do they obtain similar data with another bam allele (i.e., bamdelta86)?

      No. Given that bam<sup>BG</sup> was functionally indistinguishable from bam<sup>Δ86</sup> in inducing the SGC phenotype (Figure 1J), we believe that repeating these experiments with bam<sup>Δ86</sup> would be redundant and would not alter the key conclusion of our study. Thank you for your understanding!

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      While the study by Zhang et al. provides valuable insights into how germline tumors can non-autonomously suppress the differentiation of neighboring wild-type germline stem cells (GSCs), several conceptual and technical issues limit the strength of the conclusions.

      Major points:

      (1) Naming of SGCs is confusing. In line 68, the authors state that "many wild-type germ cells located outside the niche retained a GSC-like single-germ-cell (SGC) morphology." However, bam or bgcn mutant GSCs are also referred to as "SGCs," which creates confusion when reading the text and interpreting the figures. The authors should clarify the terminology used to distinguish between wild-type SGCs and tumor (bam/bgcn mutant) SGCs, and apply consistent naming throughout the manuscript and figure legends.

      We apologize for any confusion. In our manuscript, the term "SGC" is reserved specifically for wild-type germ cells that maintain a GSC-like morphology outside the niche. bam or bgcn mutant germ cells are referred to as GSC-like tumor cells (Lines 89-90), not SGCs.

      (a) The same confusion appears in Figure 2. It is unclear whether the analyzed SGCs are wild-type or bam mutant cells. If the SGCs analyzed are Bam mutants, then the lack of Bam expression and failure to differentiate would be expected and not informative. However, if the SGCs are wild-type GSCs located outside the niche, then the observation would suggest that Bam expression is silenced in these wild-type cells, which is a significant finding. The authors should clarify the genotype of the SGCs analyzed in Figure 2C, as this information is not currently provided.

      The SGCs analyzed in Figure 2A-C are wild-type, GSC-like cells located outside the niche. They were generated using the same genetic strategy depicted in Figures 1C and 1E (with the schematic in Figure 1B). The complete genotypes for all experiments are available in Source data 1.

      (b) In Figures 4B and 4E, the analysis of SGC composition is confusing. In the control germaria (bam mutant mosaic), the authors label GFP⁺ SGCs as "wild-type," which makes interpretation unclear. Note, this is completely different from their earlier definition shown in line 68.

      The strategy to generate SGCs in Figure 4B-F (with the schematic in Figure 4A) is different from that in Figure 1C-F, H, and I (with the schematic in Figure 1B). In Figure 4B-F, we needed to distinguish punt<sup>-/-</sup> (or med<sup>-/-</sup>) with punt<sup>+/-</sup> (or med<sup>+/-</sup>) germ cells. As noted in our response to Reviewer #1’s Weakness (6), it was difficult for us to distinguish 1 and 2 copies of GFP in the Drosophila ovary. Therefore, we chose to use the triple-color system to distinguish these germ cells in Figure 4B-F (see genotypes in Source data 1).

      (c) Additionally, bam<sup>+/-</sup> GSCs (the first bar in Figure 4E) should appear GFP<sup>+</sup> and Red>sup>+</sup> (i.e., yellow). It would be helpful if the authors could indicate these bam<sup>+/-</sup> germ cells directly in the image and clarify the corresponding color representation in the main text. In Figure 2A, although a color code is shown, the legend does not explain it clearly, nor does it specify the identity of bam<sup>+/-</sup> cells alone. Figure 4F has the same issue, and in this graph, the color does not match Figure 4A.

      The color-to-genotype relationships for the schematics in Figures 2A and 4E are provided in Figures 1B and 4A, respectively. Due to the high density of germ cells, it is impractical to label each genotype directly in the images. In contrast to Figure 4E, the colors in Figure 4F do not represent genotypes; instead, blue denotes the percentage of SGCs, and red denotes the percentage of germline cysts, as indicated below the bar chart.

      (2) The frequencies of bam or bgcn mutant mosaic germaria carrying [wild-type] SGCs or wild-type germ cell cysts with branched fusomes, as well as the average number of wild-type SGCs per germarium and the number of days after heat shock for the representative images, are not provided when Figure 1 is first introduced. Since this is the first time the authors describe these phenotypes, including these details is essential. Without this information, it is difficult for readers to follow and evaluate the presented observations.

      Thank you for this constructive suggestion. These quantification data have been added to the revised Figure 1 (Figure 1J, K).

      (3) Without the information mentioned in point 2, it causes problems when reading through the section regarding [wild-type] SGCs induced by impairment of differentiation or dedifferentiation. In lines 90-97, the authors use the presence of midbodies between cystocytes as a criterion to determine whether the wild-type GSCs surrounded by tumor GSCs arise through dedifferentiation. However, the cited study (Mathieu et al., 2022) reports that midbodies can be detected between two germ cells within a cyst carrying a branched fusome upon USP8 loss.

      Unlike wild-type cystocytes, which undergo incomplete cytokinesis and lack midbodies, those with USP8 loss undergo complete cell division, with the presence of midbodies (white arrow, Figure 1F’ from Mathieu et al., 2022) as a marker of the late cytokinesis stage (Mathieu et al., 2022).

      (a) Are wild-type germ cell cysts with branched fusomes present in the bam mutant mosaic germaria? What is the proportion of germaria containing wild-type SGCs versus those containing wild-type germ cell cysts with branched fusomes?

      (b) If all bam mutant mosaic germaria carry only wild-type GSCs outside the niche and no germaria contain wild-type germ cell cysts with branched fusomes, then examining midbodies as an indicator of dedifferentiation may not be appropriate.

      We appreciate your critical comment. bam mutant mosaic germaria indeed contained wild-type germline cysts, as evidenced by an SGC frequency of ~70%, rather than 100% (see Figures 2H, 4F, 4J, 6F, 6I, and Figure 6-figure supplement 3C). Since the SGC phenotype depends on the presence of bam or bgcn mutant germline tumors, we quantified it as “the percentage of SGCs relative to the total number of SGCs and germline cysts that are surrounded by germline tumors” (see Lines 103-108). Quantifying the SGC phenotype as "the percentage of germaria with SGCs" would be imprecise. This is because the presence and number of SGCs were variable among germaria with bam or bgcn mutant germline clones, and a small number of germaria entirely lacked these clones. The data of "SGCs per germarium with both germline clones and out-of-niche wild-type germ cells" have been added to the revised Figure 1 (Figure 1K).

      (c) If, however, some germaria do contain wild-type germ cell cysts with branched fusomes, the authors should provide representative images and quantify their proportion.

      Such germaria could be found in Figure 2G, 3B, 3C, 6D, 6E, and 6H. The percentage of germline cysts can be calculated by “100% - SGC%”.

      (d) In line 95, although the authors state that 50 germ cell cysts were analyzed for the presence of midbodies, it would be more informative to specify how many germaria these cysts were derived from and how many biological replicates were examined.

      As noted in our response to points a) and b) above, the germ cells surrounded by germline tumors, rather than germarial numbers, are more precise for analyzing the phenotype. For this experiment, we examined >50 such germline cysts via confocal microscopy. As the analysis was performed on a defined cellular population, this sample size should be sufficient to support our conclusion.

      (4) Note that both bam mutant GSCs and wild-type SGCs can undergo division to generate midbodies (double cells), as shown in Figure 4H. Therefore, the current description of the midbody analysis is confusing. The authors should clarify which cell types were examined and explain how midbodies were interpreted in distinguishing between cell division and differentiation.

      We assayed for the presence of midbodies or not specifically within the wild-type germline cysts surrounded by bam or bgcn mutant tumors, not within the tumors themselves (Lines 96-97). As detailed in Lines 90-100, the absence of midbodies was used as a key criterion to exclude the possibility of dedifferentiation.

      (5) The data in Figure 5 showing Dpp expression in bam mutant tumorous GSCs are not convincing. The Dpp-lacZ signal appears broadly distributed throughout the germarium, including in escort cells. To support the claim more clearly, the authors should present corresponding images for Figures 5D and 5E, in which dpp expression was knocked down in the germ cells of bam or bgcn mutant mosaic germaria. Showing these images would help clarify the localization and specificity of Dpp-lacZ expression relative to the tumorous GSCs.

      Thank you for your constructive comment. RNA in situ hybridization data have been added to support that bam or bgcn mutant germline tumors secret BMP ligands (Figure 5A-D).

      (6) While Figure 6 provides genetic evidence that bam mutant tumorous GSCs produce Dpp to inhibit the differentiation of wild-type SGCs, it should be noted that these analyses were performed in a dpp⁺/⁻ background. To strengthen the conclusion, the authors should include appropriate controls showing [dpp<sup>+/-</sup>; bam<sup>+/-</sup>] SGCs and [dpp<sup>+/-</sup>; bam<sup>+/-</sup>] germ cell cysts without heat shock (as referenced in Figures 6F and 6I).

      Schematic cartoons in Figure 6A and 6B demonstrate that these analyses were performed in a dpp<sup>+/-</sup> background. Figure 6-figure supplement 1 indicates tha dpp<sup>+/-</sup> or gbb<sup>+/-</sup> does not affect GSC maintenance, germ cell differentiation, and female fly fertility. Figure 6C is the control for 6D and 6E, and 6G is the control for 6H, with quantification in 6F and 6I. We used nos>FLP, not the heat shock method, to induce germline clones in these experiments (see genotypes in Source data 1).

      (7) Previous studies have reported that bam mutant germ cells cause blunted escort cell protrusions (e.g., Kirilly et al., Development, 2011), which are known to contribute to germ cell differentiation (e.g., Chen et al., Frontiers in Cell and Developmental Biology, 2022). The authors should include these findings in the Discussion to provide a broader context and to acknowledge how alterations in escort cell morphology may further influence differentiation defects in their model.

      Thank you for teaching us! We have included the introduction of these two papers in the revised manuscript (Lines 197-199).

      (8) Since fusome morphology is an important readout of SGCs vs differentiation. All the clonal analysis should have fusome staining.

      SGC is readily distinguishable from multi-cellular germline cyst based on morphology. In some clonal-analysis experiments, fusome staining was not feasible due to technical limitations such as channel saturation or antibody incompatibility. Thank you for your understanding!

      (9) Figure arrangement. It is somewhat difficult to identify the figure panels cited in the text due to the current panel arrangement.

      The figure panels were arranged to optimize space while ensuring that related panels are grouped in close proximity for logical comparison. We would be happy to consider any specific suggestions for an alternative layout that could improve clarity.

      (10) The number of biological replicates and germaria analyzed should be clearly stated somewhere in the manuscript-ideally in the Methods section or figure legends. Providing this information is essential for assessing data reliability and reproducibility.

      The detailed quantification information is labeled directly in figures or described in figure legends, and all raw quantification data are provided in Source data 2.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Zhang et al. investigated how germline tumors influence the development of neighboring wild-type (WT) germline stem cells (GSC) in the Drosophila ovary. They report that germline tumors inhibit the differentiation of neighboring WT GSCs by arresting them in an undifferentiated state, resulting from reduced expression of the differentiation-promoting factor Bam. They find that these tumor cells produce low levels of the niche-associated signaling molecules Dpp and Gbb, which suppress bam expression and consequently inhibit the differentiation of neighboring WT GSCs non-cell-autonomously. Based on these findings, the authors propose that germline tumors mimic the niche to suppress the differentiation of the neighboring stem cells.

      Strengths:

      This study addresses an important biological question concerning the interaction between germline tumor cells and WT germline stem cells in the Drosophila ovary. If the findings are substantiated, they could provide valuable insights applicable to other stem cell systems.

      We greatly appreciate your valuable comments.

      Weaknesses:

      Previous work from Xie's lab demonstrated that bam and bgcn mutant GSCs can outcompete WT GSCs for niche occupancy. Furthermore, a large body of literature has established that the interactions between escort cells (ECs) and GSC daughters are essential for proper and timely germline differentiation (the differentiation niche). Disruption of these interactions leads to arrest of germline cell differentiation in a status with weak BMP signaling activation and low bam expression, a phenotype virtually identical to what is reported here. Thus, it remains unclear whether the observed phenotype reflects "direct inhibition by tumor cells" or "arrested differentiation due to the loss of the differentiation niche." Because most data were collected at a very late stage (more than 10 days after clonal induction), when tumor cells already dominate the germarium, this question cannot be solved. To distinguish between these two possibilities, the authors could conduct a time-course analysis to examine the onset of the WT GSC-like single-germ-cell (SGC) phenotype and determine whether early-stage tumor clones with a few tumor cells can suppress the differentiation of neighboring WT GSCs with only a few tumor cells present. If tumor cells indeed produce Dpp and Gbb (as proposed here) to inhibit the differentiation of neighboring germline cells, a small cluster or probably even a single tumor cell generated at an early stage might prevent the differentiation of their neighboring germ cells.

      Thank you for your critical comment. The revised manuscript now includes a time-course analysis of the SGC phenotype (Figure 1J). Our data in Figure 6 demonstrate that BMP ligands from germline tumors are required to inhibit SGC differentiation. Furthermore, we have incorporated into the manuscript the possibility that disruption of the differentiation niche may also contribute to the SGC phenotype (Lines 197-199).

      The key evidence supporting the claim that tumor cells produce Gpp and Gbb comes from Figures 5 and 6, which suggest that tumor-derived dpp and gbb are required for this inhibition. However, interpretation of these data requires caution. In Figure 5, the authors use dpp-lacZ to support the claim that dpp is upregulated in tumor cells (Figure 5A and 5B). However, the background expression in somatic cells (ECs and pre-follicular cells) differs noticeably between these panels. In Figure 5A, dpp-lacZ expression in somatic cells in 5A is clearly higher than in 5B, and the expression level in tumor cells appears comparable to that in somatic cells (dpp-lacZ single channel). Similarly, in Figure 5B, dpp-lacZ expression in germline cells is also comparable to that in somatic cells. Providing clear evidence of upregulated dpp and gbb expression in tumor cells (for example, through single-molecular RNA in situ) would be essential.

      We greatly appreciate your critical comment. In our data, the expression levels of dpp-lacZ in terminal filament and cap cells were highly variable across germaria, even within the same ovary. We have omitted these results in the revised Figure 5. RNA in situ hybridization data have been added to visualize the expression of BMP ligands within bam mutant germline tumor cells (Figure 5A-D).

      Most tumor data present in this study were collected from the bam[86] null allele, whereas the data in Figure 6 were derived from a weaker bam[BG] allele. This bam[BG] allele is not molecularly defined and shows some genetic interaction with dpp mutants. As shown in Figure 6E, removal of dpp from homozygous bam[BG] mutant leads to germline differentiation (evidenced by a branched fusome connecting several cystocytes, located at the right side of the white arrowhead). In Figure 6D, fusome is likely present in some GFP-negative bam[BG]/bam[BG] cells. To strengthen their claim that the tumor produces Dpp and Gbb to inhibit WT germline cell differentiation, the authors should repeat these experiments using the bam[86] null allele.

      Although a structure resembling a "branched fusome" is visible in Figure 6E (right of the white arrowhead), it is an artifact resulting from the cytoplasm of GFP-positive follicle cells, which also stain for α-Spectrin, projecting between germ cells of different clones (see the merged image). In both our previous (Zhang et al., 2023) and current studies, bam<sup>BG</sup> was functionally indistinguishable from bam<sup>Δ86</sup> in its ability to block GSC differentiation and induce the SGC phenotype (Figure 1J). Given this, we believe that repeating the extensive experiments in Figure 6 with the bam<sup>Δ86</sup> allele would be scientifically redundant and would not change the key conclusion of our study.

      It is well established that the stem niche provides multiple functional supports for maintaining resident stem cells, including physical anchorage and signaling regulation. In Drosophila, several signaling molecules produced by the niche have been identified, each with a distinct function - some promoting stemness, while others regulate differentiation. Expression of Dpp and Gbb alone does not substantiate the claim that these tumor cells have acquired the niche-like property. To support their assertion that these tumors mimic the niche, the authors should provide additional evidence showing that these tumor cells also express other niche-associated markers. Alternatively, they could revise the manuscript title to more accurately reflect their findings.

      Dpp and Gbb are the key niche signals from cap cells for maintaining GSC stemness. Our work demonstrates that germline tumors can specifically mimic this signaling function, not the full suite of cap cell properties, to create a non-cell-autonomous differentiation block. The current title “Tumors mimic the niche to inhibit neighboring stem cell differentiation” reflects this precise concept: a partial, functional mimicry of the niche's most relevant activity in this context. We feel it is an appropriate and compelling summary of our main conclusion.

      In the Method section, the authors need to provide details on how dpp-lacZ expression levels were quantified and normalized.

      Because of the highly variable expression levels in terminal filament and cap cells, we have omitted the dpp-lacZ results in the revised manuscript.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Minor points

      (1) Not all readers may be familiar with the nos>FLP/FRT or hs-FLP/FRT systems. It would be helpful if the authors could briefly introduce these genetic mosaic systems and explain how they were used in this study before presenting the results.

      Thank you for this constructive suggestion. Such brief introduction has been added to the revised manuscript (Lines 64-70).

      (2) Line 68-70: "Surprisingly, ...outside the niche retained a GSC-like single-germ-cell (SGC) morphology, even when encapsulated within egg chambers (Figure 1C, D, Figure 1- figure supplement 1).

      (3) The figure citation is not appropriate, as Figures 1C and 1D do not show "single germ cells (SGCs) encapsulated within egg chambers." To improve clarity, the authors could revise the sentence as follows: "Surprisingly, wild-type germ cells located outside the niche retained a GSC-like single-germ-cell (SGC) morphology (Figures 1C and D), even when encapsulated within egg chambers (Figure 1-figure supplement 1)." This modification would make the description consistent with the figure content and easier for readers to follow.

      Thank you for teaching us! The manuscript has been revised following this suggestion (Lines 70-73).

      (4) Line 106-110. The description is confusing. The authors state, "Under normal conditions... Notably, 74% of SGCs (n = 132) were GFP-negative, while the remaining 26% were GFP-positive (Figure 2B, C). However, Figure 2B shows the bam mutant mosaic germaria, and Figure 2C does not specify the genotypes of the germaria used for the analysis of GSCs, CBs, and SGCs. The authors should clarify the experimental conditions and genotypes corresponding to each panel. In addition, it would be more informative to indicate how many germaria these quantified GSCs, CBs, and SGCs were derived from.

      (5) Throughout the manuscript, the authors report the number of SGCs analyzed (e.g., Lines 149-151). However, it would be more informative to also indicate how many germaria these quantified SGCs were derived from. Providing this information would help readers assess the sampling size and variability across biological replicates.

      Thank you for your suggestion. As shown in Figure 2B, these wild-type (RFP-positive) GSCs and CBs were also derived from bam mutant mosaic germaria. The phrase "under normal conditions" has been deleted from the revised manuscript to prevent any potential ambiguity. Given the specificity of the SGC phenotype, the germ cells surrounded by germline tumors, rather than germarial numbers, are more precise for its quantification (Lines 103-108). The data of “SGCs per germarium with both germline clones and out-of-niche wild-type germ cells” have been added to the revised Figure 1K.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Additionally, the authors should clarify what the "red dot" signal in the GFP-positive cap cell in Figure 3 F (left panel) represents.

      The “red dot” is an asterisk that is used to mark a cap cell (Line 620).

      (2) Finally, on line 266, "bamP-GFP-positive" should be corrected to "bamP-GFP-negative."

      It should be “bamP-GFP-positive”, not “bamP-GFP-negative” (see Figure 2B).

      Reference:

      Mathieu, J., Michel-Hissier, P., Boucherit, V., and Huynh, J.R. (2022). The deubiquitinase USP8 targets ESCRT-III to promote incomplete cell division. Science 376, 818-823.

      Zhang, Q., Zhang, Y., Zhang, Q., Li, L., and Zhao, S. (2023). Division promotes adult stem cells to perform active niche competition. Genetics 224.

      Zhao, S., Fortier, T.M., and Baehrecke, E.H. (2018). Autophagy Promotes Tumor-like Stem Cell Niche Occupancy. Curr Biol 28, 3056-3064.e3053.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This work provides evidence that slender T. brucei can initiate and complete cyclical development in Glossina morsitans without GlcNAc supplementation, in both sexes, and importantly in non-teneral flies, including salivary-gland infections.

      Comparative transcriptomics show early divergence between slender- and stumpy-initiated differentiation (distinct GO enrichments), with convergence by ~72 h, supporting an alternative pathway into the procyclic differentiation program.

      The work addresses key methodological criticisms of earlier studies and supports the hypothesis that slender forms may contribute to transmission at low parasitaemia.

      Strengths:

      (1) Directly tackles prior concerns (no GlcNAc, both sexes, non-teneral flies) with positive infections through to the salivary glands.

      (2) Transcriptomic time course adds some mechanistic depth.

      (3) Clear relevance to the "transmission paradox"; advances an important debate in the field.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Discrepancy with Ngoune et al. (2025) remains unresolved; no head-to-head control for colony/blood source or microbiome differences that could influence vector competence.

      We acknowledge that a direct head-to-head comparison was not performed and that microbiome composition can affect vector competence. However, both the tsetse flies used in Ngoune et al. (2025) and those in our study originated from the same colony and were maintained under comparable standard laboratory conditions. In both cases, flies were fed on sheep blood through identical silicon membrane systems, minimizing potential differences.

      (2) Lacks in vivo feeding validation (e.g., infecting flies directly on parasitaemic mice) to strengthen ecological relevance.

      Our study deliberately focused on controlling experimental variables through the use of an artificial feeding system, which allows for standardization of parasite dose and exposure conditions. This approach facilitates reproducibility and direct comparison with previous studies. Also, to us it appears questionable if feeding flies on infected laboratory mice really adds ecological relevance.

      (3) Mechanistic inferences are largely correlative (although not requested, there is no functional validation of genes or pathways emerging from the transcriptomics).

      Functional validation of individual genes or pathways was not undertaken in this study. Instead, the aim was to identify and compare transcriptional signatures associated with slender-to-procyclic versus stumpy-to-procyclic differentiation, and to directly address previous criticism of original finding that slender bloodstream forms are capable of infecting the tsetse fly.

      (4) Reliance on a single parasite clone (AnTat 1.1) and one vector species limits external validity.

      Incorporating additional pleomorphic T. brucei clones and alternative tsetse species would undoubtedly broaden our understanding of parasite-vector interactions, and studies using fresh field isolates and wild-caught tsetse flies would be even more informative. However, in order to directly address the specific concerns raised against our original study (Schuster et al., 2021), it was essential to employ the same parasite clone and vector species.

      We further emphasize that the pleomorphic clone used here is a well-characterized and widely employed T. brucei strain that closely reflects parasites encountered under natural conditions. Likewise, Glossina morsitans represents the standard vector species used in the majority of tsetse laboratories, thereby ensuring reproducibility and facilitating comparison with existing work in the field.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This paper is an exciting follow-up to two recent publications in eLife: one from the same lab, reporting that slender forms can successfully infect tsetse flies (Schuster, S et al., 2021), and another independent study claiming the opposite (Ngoune, TMJ et al., 2025). Here, the authors address four criticisms raised against their original work: the influence of N-acetyl-glucosamine (NAG), the use of teneral and male flies, and whether slender forms bypass the stumpy stage before becoming procyclic forms.

      Strengths:

      We applaud the authors' efforts in undertaking these experiments and contributing to a better understanding of the T. brucei life cycle. The paper is well-written and the figures are clear.

      Weaknesses:

      We identified several major points that deserve attention.

      (1) What is a slender form? Slender-to-stumpy differentiation is a multi-step process, and most of these steps unfortunately lack molecular markers (Larcombe et al, 2023). In this paper, it is essential that the authors explicitly define slender forms. Which parameters were used? It is implicit that slender forms are replicative and GFP::PAD1-negative. Isn't it possible that some GFP::PAD1-negative cells were already transitioning toward stumpy forms, but not yet expressing the reporter? Transcriptomically, these would be early transitional cells that, upon exposure to "tsetse conditions" (in vitro or in vivo), could differentiate into PCF through an alternative pathway, potentially bypassing the stumpy stage (as suggested in Figure 4). Given the limited knowledge of early molecular signatures of differentiation, we cannot exclude the possibility that the slender forms used here included early differentiating cells. We suggest:

      (1.1) Testing the commitment of slender forms (e.g., using the plating assay in Larcombe et al., 2023), assessing cell-cycle profile, and other parameters that define slender forms.

      (1.2) In the Discussion, acknowledging the uncertainty of "what is a slender?" and being explicit about the parameters and assumptions.

      We appreciate the critical evaluation concerning the identity of slender forms and potential presence of intermediate forms displaying slender morphology yet exhibiting cell-cycle arrest, as proposed in Larcombe et al. (2023). Indeed, our original paper is entitled “Unexpected plasticity in the life cycle of Trypanosoma brucei.” It is precisely this phenotypic plasticity that enables slender parasites to transition directly into the procyclic insect stage. Notably, we have shown that even monomorphic trypanosome strains are capable of undergoing this transition in the fly, and such strains are not considered to represent “intermediate” or “half-stumpy” forms. Consequently, while the question “what constitutes a slender parasite?” may be of conceptual interest, it currently is, in our view, not central to the biological conclusions of this study.

      Nevertheless, we now have included an additional section in our Discussion that compares the slender cells used in our study with the commitment classification introduced by Larcombe et al. Our infection experiments were conducted using cells that meet the Larcombe-criteria of “true slender cells”, characterized by the absence of PAD1 expression and the maintenance of a slender morphology (Supplementary Figure 3A, B, following FACS sorting). Moreover, these cells are not cell-cycle arrested but continue to proliferate (Supplementary Figure 3C). Accordingly, our experimental assumptions and parameters align those of previous studies, in which continuous cell division, lack of cell cycle arrest, lack of PAD1 expression, and slender morphology are still established markers defining the slender bloodstream form.

      (1.3) Clarifying in the Materials and Methods how cultures were maintained in the 3-4 days prior to tsetse infections, including daily cell densities. Ideally, provide information on GFP expression, cell cycle, and morphology. While this will not fully resolve the concern, it will allow future reinterpretation of the data when early molecular events are better understood.

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful suggestion. Details on the maintenance of T. brucei cultures and culture conditions, including cell density, are provided in our previous publication (Schuster et al., 2021). In the present study, cultures were routinely monitored prior to infection to ensure that the cells used were GFP-negative and exhibited the characteristic slender morphology.

      For infections performed with higher cell numbers, fluorescence-activated cell sorting (FACS) was used to obtain a 100% GFP-negative population, thereby avoiding the need for daily monitoring of GFP fluorescence. This approach ensured that all infection experiments were initiated with a homogeneous population of slender bloodstream forms.

      (2) Figure 1: This analysis lacks a positive control to confirm that NAG is working as expected. It would strengthen the paper if the authors showed that NAG improves stumpy infection. Once confirmed, the authors could discuss possible differences in the tsetse immune response to slender vs. stumpy forms to explain the absence of an effect on slender infections.

      The enhancing effect of N-acetylglucosamine (NAG) on stumpy-form infections of T. brucei is well established and widely accepted in the field (e.g. Peacock et al., 2006, 2012). In the present Research Advance, our objective was to directly address the specific concerns raised in response to our previous publication (Schuster et al., 2021), in which NAG supplementation during stumpy infections was already included and shown to function as expected. Accordingly, the aim here was not to reiterate the established role of NAG in promoting stumpy infections, but rather to directly examine infections initiated by slender bloodstream forms in the absence of NAG, thereby approximating more natural conditions.

      (3) Figure 2. To conclude that teneral flies are less infected than non-teneral flies, data from Figures 1 and 2 must be directly comparable. Were these experiments performed simultaneously? Please clarify in the figure legends. Moreover, the non-teneral flies here are still relatively young (6-7 days old), limiting comparisons with Ngoune, TMJ et al. 2025, where flies were 2-3 weeks old.

      The experiments presented in Figures 1 and 2 were not performed simultaneously. Importantly, the comparison between teneral and non-teneral flies was not intended as a direct quantitative comparison across experiments, but rather to assess infection outcomes under distinct physiological states of the vector. It is well established that teneral flies are generally more susceptible to T. brucei infection than non-teneral flies, a phenomenon commonly referred to as the “teneral phenomenon.”

      Our objective was to demonstrate that slender bloodstream forms are capable of establishing infections also in non-teneral flies, thereby directly addressing concerns in the comment to our original study (Schuster et al.) that the experimental set-up may have created an unnaturally permissive environment. The data presented here in fact support the conclusion that slender forms can contribute to disease transmission under more natural conditions.

      A key determinant of the increased susceptibility of teneral flies is the incomplete maturation of the peritrophic matrix (PM) (Walshe et al., 2011; Haines, 2013). In Glossina morsitans morsitans, the PM reaches its full length along the midgut approximately 84 hours post-eclosion (Lehane and Msangi, 1991). In addition, teneral flies have not yet taken a bloodmeal prior to the infective one, a factor known to further increase susceptibility (Haines, 2013).

      In the present paper, non-teneral flies were selected that had received two non-infectious bloodmeals prior to the infective challenge. At 6-7 days post-eclosion, these flies possessed a fully established PM, which is known to increase refractoriness to infection (Walshe et al., 2011), while still being sufficiently young to survive the time required for T. brucei to complete its developmental cycle. This is an important point, as our timing allowed robust interpretation of infection outcomes, without the substantial loss of flies (approximately 40%) that has been reported to occur prior to dissection in Ngoune et al., 2025.

      (4) Figure 3. The PCA plot (A) appears to suggest the opposite of the authors' interpretation: slender differentiation seems to proceed through a transcriptome closer to stumpy profiles. Plotting DEG numbers (panel C) is informative, but how were paired conditions selected? Besides, plotting of the number of DEGs between consecutive time points within and between parasite types is also necessary. There may also be better computational tools to assess temporal relationships. Finally, how does PAD1 transcript abundance change over time in both populations? It would also be important to depict the upregulation of procyclic-specific genes.

      Regarding the PCA plot (Figure 3A), we agree that slender form differentiation transiently exhibits transcriptomic similarities to stumpy form profiles. However, as discussed in the paper, this overlap specifically reflects shared early differentiation responses rather than the adoption of a full stumpy-like transcriptome. The overall trajectory and clustering pattern indicate that slender-derived parasites follow a distinct differentiation path that - as expected -ultimately converges with the procyclic stage, consistent with our interpretation.

      For the DEG analysis (Figure 3C), paired conditions were selected based on biologically meaningful time points corresponding to key stages in the differentiation process, allowing for direct comparisons between slender- and stumpy-derived populations either for the same timepoints following addition of cis-aconitate (Supplementary Figure 5) or timepoints plotting close on the PCA (Supplementary Figure 6).

      We also appreciate the recommendation to consider alternative computational approaches for assessing temporal relationships. While our current analysis provides robust insights into transcriptomic transitions, we agree that future studies employing different tools could further refine our observations.

      Finally, we have included the expression dynamics of PAD1 and PAD2 in the Supplementary Data (Supplementary Figure 8). The expression profile for procyclic-specific genes can now be found in Supplementary Figure 9.

      (5) Could methylcellulose in the medium sensitize parasites to QS-signal, leading to more frequent and/or earlier differentiation, despite low densities? If so, cultures with vs. without methylcellulose might yield different proportions of early-differentiating (yet GFP-negative) parasites. This could explain discrepancies between the Engstler and Rotureau labs despite using the same strain. The field would benefit from reciprocal testing of culture conditions. Alternatively, the authors could compare infectivity and transcriptomes of their slender forms under three conditions: (i) in vitro with methylcellulose, (ii) in vitro without methylcellulose, and (iii) directly from mouse blood.

      The original description of stumpy induction factor (SIF)-mediated quorum sensing in Trypanosoma brucei was performed by the Boshart laboratory using (a) the same cell line employed in the present study and (b) an identical HMI-9 medium supplemented with the same amount of methylcellulose (Reuner et al., 1997; Vassella et al., 1997). All relevant controls were comprehensively reported in those studies in the late 1990s. There is therefore no experimental or historical basis to suggest that methylcellulose sensitises parasites to stumpy differentiation. Moreover, the viscosity of HMI-9-methylcellulose remains well below the threshold required to impose a diffusion barrier for small molecules such as peptides. Consequently, accumulation of SIF as a result of increased medium viscosity can be excluded on physical grounds.

      The present Research Advance was conducted with a focused objective, namely, to directly address the specific concerns raised in response to our original publication (Schuster et al., 2021). Expanding the study to include additional experimental conditions, such as systematic comparisons of cultures grown with and without methylcellulose, or analyses of parasites freshly isolated from mouse blood, would have extended the scope well beyond what is useful for a Research Advance and would have diluted the central purpose of this contribution.

      Recommendations for authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Thank you for your perseverance in filling the gaps flagged by others - these data strengthen the story.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Figure 1: The use of teneral flies is not mentioned in the text or the legend

      Thank you: we added this to the main text and figure legend (lines 103 and 140).

      (2) Figure 1 legend (line 2): Typo - "with or 60 nm" should read "with or without 60 nm."

      Thank you: this has been corrected (line 141).

      (3) Figure 2. Please provide the FACS gating strategy and cell numbers before and after sorting

      The cell number before gating is 1x10<sup>7</sup> cells, and 1x10<sup>6</sup> cells were collected via FACS for infection experiments. This is stated in the Materials & Methods section (lines 473 and 478).

      (4) Figure 3. RNAseq data presentation could be improved:

      (a) Clarify which type of differentially expressed genes are shown in panels B and C (presumably those upregulated in slender forms and those upregulated in stumpy forms).

      Thank you: the information has now been added to the figure legend (lines 279 and 282).

      (b) The color code in panel A is inverted relative to panels B and C.

      Thank you: this has been corrected (figure 3B and C).

      (c) The GO-term analysis represents an important conclusion and should be moved to the main figure.

      As a Research Advance, this paper is restricted in the number of figures and therefore the decision had to be made to move the GO-term analysis to the Supplements.

      (d) Provide dataset quality control in the supplement (genes detected per sample, sample consistency, replicate correlations, etc.).

      Sequencing analysis is now explained in detail in the Materials & Methods section (lines 515 - 528).

      (5) Figure legends: Indicate how many times each experiment was performed and the number of independent biological replicates.

      The number of replicates (and flies per replicate) is stated for both infection experiments in the respective figure legends (lines 143 and 203/04). For the RNA sequencing, it is stated in the main text, and we now have also added the information to the figure legend (lines 219 and 276/77).

      (6) Discussion: Despite the ongoing debate about midgut pH, could the authors also comment on other evidence suggesting that stumpy forms are better adapted to the fly?

      The pH of the midgut has been determined by the Acosta-Serrano laboratory. We have cited the paper (Liniger et al. 2003) in lines 328-330 of the discussion. Furthermore, we have discussed the developing mitochondria of stumpy forms as well as expression of Krebs cycle, and the proposed higher resistance to proteolytic stress (Vickerman, 1965; Brown et al., 1973; Hamm et al., 1990; Reuner et al., 1997, Nolan et al., 2000).

    1. Author response:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      (1) While the manuscript convincingly documents distinct expression patterns, the functional consequences of these differences remain unexplored. The conclusions regarding non-redundant roles would benefit from functional perturbation experiments. Relatedly, the authors propose that tnfa and tnfb may play different immunological roles, but the mechanistic basis underlying these differences is not addressed. For example, do the two cytokines engage different receptors or signaling pathways? Do they trigger distinct downstream transcriptional programs?

      We agree functional analysis on Tnfb is relevant to address, however, the focus of the current manuscript (Tools and Resources article type) was to report the generation and validation of the new tnfb-reporter line, we feel that functional data is better suited for a separate manuscripts. In fact, this will be part of a follow manuscript which will be forthcoming soon.

      (2) Some imaging-based observations appear largely qualitative. Additional quantitative analyses, such as statistical comparisons of expression levels across time points or cell populations, would strengthen the robustness of the conclusions. For instance, in Figure 4, the expression levels of tnfa and tnfb reporter transgenes in immune cells should be quantitatively compared between control and amputated conditions.

      In figure 4, we focus on which cells express either cytokine, not on when they express it nor whether the one cell expresses more or less eGFP/mCh. Also, tnfb:mCh-F and tnfa:eGFP-F expression is membrane-bound as these protein is farnesylated, whereas il1b:eGFP is not, and has a cytoplasmic distribution. Because of possible biases due to the different distribution or abundance of cytoplasmic vs farnesylated proteins within a cell, we never compared max eGFP to max mCherry within a treatment group.

      (3) It would also be important to clarify whether the distinct maturation kinetics of the fluorescent reporters were taken into account when interpreting expression timing. Since GFP typically matures more rapidly than mCherry in vivo, the authors should comment on whether this difference could influence the apparent expression kinetics of tnfa versus tnfb.

      In figure 5, we do count the cells expressing either of the cytokine, and use eGFP/mCherry signal to infer on how early these cells express the cytokine. We, however, do not directly compare maximum eGFP or mCherry fluorescence intensity per cell, which, especially in the early time points, could be biased by differences in protein maturation, we only score eGFP or mCherry presence in a cell. We could not really compare or account for differences in protein maturation as we do not possess Il1b and tnfa transgenic lines driving mCherry expression for comparison (and to our knowledge are not available in other laboratories). Based on the obtained results however, it appears that the earlier maturation of eGFP compared to mCherry may not influence the outcome of the analysis, as no single tnfa:eGFP-F+ cells were observed at any time point and single il1b:eGFP+ cells were observed only 6h after amputation, whereas eGFP/mCherry double positive cells could be observed as early as 2h after amputation. Any bias should influence the period between 1h and 2h, and we did not look at time lapses shorter than 1h.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      (1) Lack of functional analysis; these lines are a potentially valuable tool, but so far provide no clue regarding the role of tnfb. Is it a pro-inflammatory cytokine acting in synergy with tnfa, or is it an antagonist? What are its receptor(s)? What signalling pathways and downstream genes does it induce? Addressing at least some of these questions should greatly increase the impact of the paper.

      Please refer to response to Reviewer #1 point 1.

      We will address the other recommendation to the authors as they will improve the manuscript.

    1. Author Response:

      eLife assessment:

      The study provides an important advance towards understanding how spatial and temporal transcriptional programs are integrated to regulate lineage-specific chromatin and enhancer activation. The functional evidence is currently incomplete, but the current data provide a solid correlative and conceptual foundation. Functional experiments directly linking Gsb occupancy to chromatin state and regulation of some lineage-specific targets would further strengthen the causal interpretation of the model. Clarifying the scope of conclusions and explicitly acknowledging the technical limitations of current chromatin assays would provide a more balanced interpretation of the manuscript.

      We thank the reviewers and editors for their comments on our manuscript. We address here the concerns raised by them.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      It has long been known that Drosophila embryonic ventral nerve cord neuroblasts incorporate both spatial and temporal transcription factor expression to generate 30 distinct neuroblasts and lineages per hemisegment. This manuscript aims to elucidate the mechanism by which this integration of spatial and temporal transcription factors occurs through "direct regulation" or "epigenetic regulation". Direct regulation is defined as both spatial and temporal factors binding to open chromatin and working together to dictate specific lineages. Epigenetic regulation is defined as a spatial factor priming the chromatin in a neuroblast-specific manner to allow for the integration of temporal factors to generate specific lineages. The authors conclude that there is a two-step model in which a spatial transcription factor code "primes" the chromatin in terms of accessibility and then recruits temporal factors to ensure lineage-specific enhancer activation.

      We thank the reviewer for this clear and succinct summary and for accurately capturing the central idea of the model we propose. In particular, we appreciate that the reviewer highlights the distinction between the previously proposed “direct regulation” and “epigenetic regulation” models, which our work suggests may operate together within neuroblast lineages through a combinatorial spatial transcription factor code.

      Strengths:

      The authors tested two models, "direct regulation" vs "epigenetic regulation" in a well-defined pool of neural stem cells during normal development.

      We thank the reviewer for recognizing this aspect of the study.

      Weaknesses:

      The data in this study cannot clearly substantiate these two models.

      Overall, there are a number of issues that are inconsistent and not supportive of the model proposed in this manuscript. Firstly, there is no evidence of pioneer factor activity in any of the NB lineages described - i.e., any changes in chromatin accessibility being shown over time. The authors must show chromatin conformation changes during the window of spatial transcription factor expression in order to convince the readers of this phenomenon.

      Thank you for raising this point. In most studies, pioneer or chromatin-priming activity is inferred from a transcription factor’s ability to bind regions of relatively low accessibility and to remodel chromatin upon perturbation, rather than from direct developmental time-course measurements of chromatin accessibility.

      In our study we provide two lines of evidence consistent with such activity. First, TaDa profiling shows that Gsb occupies both accessible loci and regions that are relatively less accessible in NB5-6. Second, ectopic expression of Gsb in the non-cognate NB7-4 lineage results in clear chromatin remodelling, with loci both gaining and losing accessibility (Fig. 6). These perturbation experiments demonstrate that Gsb is sufficient to alter chromatin accessibility in vivo and therefore support a chromatin-priming role for it.

      We agree that a developmental time-course would be very informative. The difficulty is that, in this system, the relevant sequence unfolds extremely rapidly and across two different cellular contexts. Spatial transcription factors such as Gsb are expressed in the neuroectoderm, neuroblasts are then specified and delaminate, and Hb expression begins almost immediately after NB formation — on the order of minutes to tens of minutes. Before delamination there is no neuroblast to target with NB-specific drivers, and once the NB forms the temporal program is already underway. More generally, resolving chromatin accessibility changes across this transition would require temporally precise profiling at very high resolution in vivo, likely with live or near-live methods, and is not feasible with the Dam-based lineage-restricted approaches currently available.

      Secondly, the phenotypic data do not align with the sequencing data - the story would be more cohesive if the sequencing data and phenotypic data were in the same NB subtypes. On one hand, we are shown that Gsb misexpression induces loss of chromatin accessibility in NB 7-4, however in the widespread loss model, we are not shown a phenotype in these NB7-4 - which suggest that the chromatin accessibility at these sites (sites that have already been distinguished as SoIs for that NB subtype) does not play an important role in distinguishing NB 7-4 identity. However, the authors report loss of NB3-5 identity but have no evidence as to how the chromatin has changed (or if it has at all) in that subtype, leaving the readers to wonder how the loss of identity occurred

      Thank you for raising this point regarding the alignment between the chromatin and phenotypic analyses. The reviewer’s comment made us realise that the rationale for these experiments may not have been sufficiently clear in the original manuscript and could therefore be perceived as misaligned. We therefore explain the logic of the experimental design here and will edit the manuscript in the revision to clarify this point for readers.

      The chromatin experiments were designed to test whether Gsb is capable of remodelling chromatin when introduced into a non-cognate lineage. For this purpose, NB7-4 provided a suitable lineage with clean genetic access for TaDa/CATaDa experiments, allowing us to assess whether ectopic Gsb expression can alter chromatin accessibility in vivo.

      The functional role of Gsb, however, was examined within the spatial domain in which it is normally expressed. We knocked-down Gsb broadly and early in development and assayed its effects on NB5-6. Consistent with its established role in row-5/6 patterning, reduction of Gsb disrupted the specification of NB5-6 identity. In the converse experiment, broad misexpression of Gsb led to a partial expansion of NB5-6 markers. Because spatial patterning in the ventral nerve cord is organized into mutually exclusive row identities, changes in NB5-6 specification can be accompanied by reciprocal effects in neighbouring lineages. In our experiments, this is reflected in changes in markers of adjacent identities, particularly NB3-5. For this reason, NB3-5 markers provide a sensitive and informative readout of altered NB5-6 specification in the phenotypic analyses.

      We recognize that this point may not have been clear in the original manuscript. To avoid similar confusion for readers, we will make this reasoning explicitly clear in the revision.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This article by Bhattacharya et al. investigates how neural stem cells (NSCs, NBs) in Drosophila integrate spatial and temporal cues to activate neuron-specific terminal selector (TS) genes. Prior to this work, it was understood that NSCs utilize spatial transcription factors (STFs) and temporal transcription factors (TTFs) to determine lineage identity and birth order, but the mechanisms of integration were not fully elucidated. The authors employed chromatin profiling techniques to analyze the binding of STFs and TTFs in two specific neuroblast lineages, NB5-6 and NB7-4. They found that Gsb (an STF) binds both accessible and less-accessible chromatin in NB5-6, while En (another STF) binds only to pre-accessible chromatin in NB7-4. The findings support an "STF code" where the combination of pioneer and non-pioneer spatial factors, along with temporal factors, triggers neuroblast-specific enhancer activation and determines lineage identity.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s careful summary of our findings and their clear articulation of the STF-code framework that emerges from the work.

      Strengths:

      The experiments are well-executed, the interpretations are generally sound, and the figures are clear and elegant. However, some conclusions are drawn too broadly without essential functional data. Therefore, additional work is needed to more effectively convey the central message.

      We thank the reviewer for their positive assessment of the experiments, interpretation, and figures, and we respond to their specific concerns below.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Integration of TaDa and functional data on Gsb for the STF model

      The authors demonstrate that TaDa profiling maps Gsb binding across the genome and identifies candidate chromatin-priming sites in NB5-6. Gsb LOF/GOF experiments reveal effects on NB identity. Combining TaDa data with LOF and GOF analyses indicates that Gsb influences NB5-6 specification by binding to both open and relatively closed chromatin, helping maintain NB5-6 identity while limiting NB3-5 fate.

      However, the study does not establish a direct link between specific LOF/GOF phenotypes and particular genomic targets. For instance, analyzing Gsb occupancy at lineage-specific identity factors or terminal selector genes (such as Lbe, Ap, or Eya for NB5-6; and Ems, etc., for NB3-5) in wild-type and manipulated conditions (Gsb misexpression) would directly connect chromatin binding to the regulation of fate determinants. These investigations would strengthen the mechanistic connection between the correlative TaDa profiles and the observed identity changes, supporting the idea that Gsb functions as a context-dependent chromatin-priming factor within the STF code, rather than as a generic transcription factor.

      We thank the reviewer for this very helpful suggestion. We agree that illustrating how the TaDa binding profiles relate to known lineage determinants will help connect the genome-wide chromatin data to the developmental phenotypes. In the revision therefore, we will examine Gsb occupancy at several genes associated with NB5-6 and NB3-5 identity (including Lbe, Ap, Eya, and Ems).

      (2) Gsb misexpression reveals bidirectional chromatin remodelling

      Experiments with ectopic Gsb expression demonstrate bidirectional chromatin remodeling in NB7-4, showing decreases in accessibility at some binding sites and increases at others. While the authors show that Gsb can disrupt chromatin upon misexpression, interpreting its "pioneer-like" or chromatin-priming activity is complex due to several factors: the misexpression occurs in a non-native lineage, the direct versus indirect effects rely on whole-embryo Dam-Gsb peaks instead of NB7-4-specific binding, and heat-shock-induced chromatin changes are not fully accounted for. These issues make it challenging to definitively determine Gsb's role in chromatin priming.

      A complementary approach would be to perform Gsb knockdown/loss-of-function in its native NB5-6 lineage and profile chromatin accessibility (TaDa or CATaDa). This would allow a cleaner, more physiologically relevant assessment of Gsb's contribution to priming, SoI establishment, and Hb recruitment. Such an experiment would strengthen the causal link between Gsb occupancy and chromatin state and clarify whether Gsb truly acts as a context-dependent pioneer in vivo, rather than producing indirect effects due to ectopic misexpression.

      We thank the reviewer for this thoughtful comment. We agree that the ectopic Gsb misexpression experiment in NB7-4 should be interpreted as a test of chromatin-remodelling capacity rather than as a fully physiological assay of Gsb function in its native NB5-6 context. At the same time, we note that ectopic expression in a non-native lineage is a standard approach used to assess pioneering or chromatin-remodelling capacity, precisely because it tests whether a factor can alter chromatin outside its endogenous setting. In the revision, we will explicitly discuss this distinction.

      We also agree that NB7-4-specific Gsb occupancy under misexpression would provide a cleaner distinction between direct and indirect effects. In the current manuscript, we infer likely direct effects from overlap with whole-embryo Gsb Dam profiles: loci that lose accessibility upon Gsb misexpression overlap whole-embryo Gsb binding, whereas loci that gain accessibility generally do not. We interpret this as support for the idea that decreased accessibility is more likely to reflect direct Gsb action, whereas increased accessibility is more likely to be indirect. We will clarify this logic in the revision.

      Regarding the reviewer’s suggestion of profiling chromatin accessibility after Gsb loss in native NB5-6, we completely agree that this would be an important complementary experiment. However, this experiment is not currently possible in our system. Gsb is required before NB specification/delamination, whereas available NB5-6 Gal4 drivers turn on only after this stage, precluding the use of RNAi. Early mutant analysis is also technically difficult because homozygous mutant embryos cannot be readily identified at the required stage, and the TaDa/CATaDa approach in this system requires large amounts of input material collected during the very short Hb window. We also tested an early CRISPR-based strategy using maternally contributed Cas9, but in this context the NB5-6 driver is lost, preventing TaDa/CATaDa profiling. We will therefore revise the manuscript to acknowledge that the current misexpression data support chromatin-remodelling capacity and are consistent with context-dependent priming, while not definitively establishing endogenous priming activity in NB5-6.

      (3) En is not a pioneer factor

      The authors conclude that Engrailed (En) is not a pioneer factor, based on the observation that En binding correlates with accessible chromatin and that En is not enriched at NB5-6-specific SOIs. However, this conclusion is not sufficiently supported by the functional data.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this point. We agree that, in several places, our wording was stronger than warranted by the data. For example, we stated that this pattern “argues against a pioneer role for En” and that the results “indicate that En does not act as a pioneer factor.” We agree that these statements are too definitive given the current evidence. Below, we address each of the reviewer’s specific concerns and explain the reasoning behind our original interpretation.

      First, the absence of En binding at NB5-6-specific SOIs does not necessarily indicate an inability to engage closed chromatin. These regions were not selected for the presence of En consensus motifs, so their lack of occupancy may simply reflect the absence of En binding motifs rather than a lack of pioneering capacity. A systematic motif analysis at NB5-6-specific SOIs is needed to determine whether En binding sites are present but unoccupied.

      We agree that the absence of En binding at NB5-6-specific SOIs alone would not be sufficient to infer a lack of pioneering activity, particularly if these loci do not contain En consensus motifs. That observation was only the starting point for our interpretation. Our reasoning was based on several additional lines of evidence from the genome-wide analysis:

      (1) When we examined En binding genome-wide, we consistently found that En occupancy in NB7-4 is restricted to regions of accessible chromatin.

      (2) Loci that are less accessible in NB7-4 show no detectable En occupancy.

      (3) Accessibility is strongly predictive of En binding: chromatin accessibility is markedly higher at En-bound loci than at En-unbound loci.

      Taken together, these patterns suggested to us that En binding in this lineage occurs primarily at pre-accessible chromatin rather than at less accessible regions that would require priming.

      Our interpretation was also guided by the broader literature. To our knowledge, neither Drosophila Engrailed nor its vertebrate homologues (EN1/EN2) have been reported to bind nucleosome-occluded DNA or initiate chromatin opening, which further informed our original interpretation.

      That said, we agree with the reviewer that these observations are suggestive rather than definitive. We will therefore temper the language throughout the manuscript so that we do not make categorical claims about En lacking pioneer activity. We will also perform the suggested motif analysis at NB5-6-specific SOIs to determine whether En binding motifs are present at these loci, which should help clarify whether the lack of En occupancy reflects motif availability or chromatin state.

      Second, the claim that En lacks pioneer activity relies solely on a single steady-state TaDa/DamID occupancy assay at one developmental stage. Because pioneer factor interactions can be transient, low-affinity, and stage-specific, such binding may not be detected by TaDa, which also depends on local GATC density and methylation kinetics and may yield false negatives. Given these technical limitations, the absence of En binding at less accessible regions does not definitively rule out a priming role.

      We take the reviewer’s point that our data cannot definitively rule out En as a pioneer. At the same time, it may be useful to clarify that TaDa is not a snapshot assay. Because Dam-mediated methylation accumulates over time while the fusion protein is expressed, even weak or transient interactions can leave a detectable signal when averaged across many cells and across the duration of the expression window.

      This cumulative nature of the assay is why our consistent observation of strong enrichment of En at accessible loci, and no detectable enrichment at less accessible regions across the genome, led us to infer that En binding in NB7-4 is strongly conditioned on chromatin accessibility. We nevertheless agree that this does not definitively exclude rare or transient interactions below the detection threshold of the assay, and we will temper the language in the manuscript accordingly.

      In the absence of direct functional assays (En LOF/GOF), the authors should explicitly acknowledge these technical and conceptual limitations and tone down the claim that "En lacks pioneer activity".

      Yes, we will do that!

      (4) Clarity of STF-code Model and Central Message

      The manuscript begins by presenting two models, direct and epigenetic, but the central takeaway of the paper is not clear. Specifically, the nuanced roles of the spatial factors Gsb and En as chromatin-priming versus stabilizing/effector factors within an STF code, and the resulting division of labor, are not clearly illustrated. The distinction between Gsb as a chromatin-priming factor and En as a cofactor-dependent activator/stabilizer should be explicitly presented in a stepwise model for better clarity. The authors could strengthen this by providing a schematic with two sequential stages illustrating how neuroblast identity factors (STF code) change chromatin states to drive lineage-specific enhancer activation. The schematic can be shown from the neuroectoderm to individual NB lineages to make it more panoramic.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion and for clearly articulating the conceptual point. As the reviewer points out, the literature has generally framed spatial–temporal integration as two alternative models—direct regulation at pre-accessible enhancers versus epigenetic priming by spatial factors. Our results suggest that elements of both mechanisms may operate within a lineage through a combinatorial STF code, with different spatial factors playing distinct roles (for example, Gsb contributing to chromatin priming, while En acts primarily at pre-accessible enhancers together with Hb). We agree that this central idea would benefit from being illustrated more explicitly. In the revision we will add a schematic summarizing this proposed two-step model and clarify the relevant parts of the text.

      (5) Identification of Priming Factors in NB7-4

      While the authors suggest that an unknown priming factor might be responsible for establishing sites of integration in NB7-4, they do not identify or explore potential candidates for this role. Further investigation into what factors might be involved in chromatin priming in NB7-4 could provide a more complete understanding of the mechanisms at play.

      We agree that identifying the factor responsible for establishing sites of integration in NB7-4 would be very informative. However, doing so would require substantial additional experiments to systematically test candidate spatial factors and assess their effects on chromatin accessibility in this lineage. Our goal in the present study was to establish how spatial and temporal cues are integrated at lineage-specific enhancers rather than to fully dissect all components of the STF code in each lineage. Identifying the priming factor in NB7-4 is therefore an important next step that we intend to pursue in future work, and we will clarify this point in the Discussion.

      (6) Functional Validation of STF Code Components

      The study proposes an STF code for each neuroblast lineage, but the specific components of these codes, beyond Gsb and En, are not fully explored. Identifying and validating additional factors that contribute to the STF code in each lineage could strengthen the conclusions.

      We agree that identifying additional components of the STF codes operating in each lineage would be very informative. Our goal in this study was not to comprehensively define all spatial factors involved in each lineage, but rather to understand how spatial and temporal inputs are integrated at lineage-specific enhancers. By examining two well-characterized spatial factors with distinct properties -- Gsb in NB5-6 and En in NB7-4 -- we aimed to illustrate how different members of an STF code can play distinct roles in shaping chromatin accessibility and enhancer activation. Identifying additional factors that contribute to these lineage-specific codes will be an important direction for future work.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Joint Public Reviews:

      In this manuscript, the authors proposed an approach to systematically characterise how heterogeneity in a protein signalling network affects its emergent dynamics, with particular emphasis on drug-response signalling dynamics in cancer treatments. They named this approach Meta Dynamic Network (MDN) modelling, as it aims to consider the potential dynamic responses globally, varying both initial conditions (i.e., expression levels) and biophysical parameters (i.e., protein interaction parameters). By characterising the "meta" response of the network, the authors propose that the method can provide insights not only into the possible dynamic behaviours of the system of interest but also into the likelihood and frequency of observing these dynamic behaviours in the natural system.

      The authors studied the Early Cell Cycle (ECC) network as a proof of concept, specifically focusing on PI3K, EGFR, and CDK4/6, with particular interest in identifying the mechanisms that cancer could potentially exploit to display drug resistance. The biochemical reaction model consists of 50 equations (state variables) with 94 kinetic parameters, described using SBML and computed in Matlab. Based on the simulations, the authors concluded the following main points: a large number of network states can facilitate resistance, the individual biophysical parameters alone are insufficient to predict resistance, and adaptive resistance is an emergent property of the network. Finally, the authors attempt to validate the model's prediction that differential core sub-networks can drive drug resistance by comparing their observations with the knock-out information available in the literature. The authors identified subnetworks potentially responsible for drug resistance through the inhibition of individual pathways. Importantly, some concerns regarding the methodology are discussed below, putting in doubt the validity of the main claims of this work.

      While the authors proposed a potentially useful computational approach to better understand the effect of heterogeneity in a system's dynamic response to a drug treatment (i.e., a perturbation), there are important weaknesses in the manuscript in its current form:

      (1) It is unclear how the random parameter sets (i.e., model instances) and initial conditions are generated, and how this choice biases or limits the general conclusions for the case studied. Particularly, it is not evident how the kinetic rates are related to any biological data, nor if the parameter distributions used in this study have any biological relevance.<br /> (2) Related to this problem, it is not clear whether the considered 100,000 random parameter samples sufficiently explore parameter space due to the combinatorial explosion that arises from having 94 free parameters, nor 100,000 random initial conditions for a system with 50 species (variables).<br /> (3) Moreover, the authors filter out all the cases with stiff behaviour. This filtering step appears to select model parameters based on computational convenience, rather than biological plausibility.<br /> (4) Also, it is not clear how exactly the drug effect is incorporated into the model (e.g., molecular inhibition?), nor how it is evaluated in the dynamic simulations (e.g., at the beginning of the simulation?). Moreover, in a complex network, the results may differ depending on whether the inhibition is applied from the start or after the network has reached a stable state.<br /> (5) On the same line, the conclusions need to be discussed in the context of stability, particularly when evaluating the role of initial conditions. As stable steady states are determined by the model parameters, once again, the details of how the perturbation effect is evaluated on the simulation dynamics are critical to interpret the results.<br /> (6) The presented validation of the model results (Fig. 7) is only qualitative, and the interpretation is not carefully discussed in the manuscript, particularly considering the comparison between fold-change responses without specifying the baseline states.

      We thank the reviewers for their thoughtful and constructive comments. In response to their comments, we have undertaken a substantial revision to address all the comments, improve clarity, transparency, and robustness while preserving the paper’s core contribution: a principled, scalable framework (MDN) for mapping how molecular heterogeneity and network architecture shape adaptive drug-response dynamics. At a high level, we clarified the study design and analysis goals, tightened definitions, and added methodological detail where it most advances interpretability. Importantly, these updates leave the analytical pipelines and major conclusions unchanged.

      Conceptually, we now make explicit that our objective is coverage of the output space of qualitative dynamics supported by the network topology, not exhaustive enumeration of parameter space. To support this, we added a convergence analysis and clarified that “triplicates” refers to independent ensembles used to demonstrate reproducibility. We also refined how we describe and implement initial conditions (as conserved total abundances that encode expression heterogeneity) and reframed filtering as minimal numerical/feasibility checks, using rejection sampling to obtain the prespecified ensemble size. Solver choices and input modelling (constant step mitogen/drug) are now spelled out succinctly.

      We expanded the model specification and rationale (complete reaction list with rate laws and brief biological justifications in the Supplement) and unified terminology throughout. Figures and legends have been overhauled for readability and accuracy, with missing labels added and ordering corrected. For validation, we clarified the nature of the single-cell reporter readout, improved Figure 7’s presentation, and emphasised - consistent with our aims - that comparisons are qualitative.

      Finally, we have rewritten the Discussion to centre on interpretation, implications, and connect our findings to the literature. It now: (i) frames MDN as a systems-level framework that links molecular heterogeneity to qualitative signalling “meta-dynamics” and adaptive escape under constant drug pressure; (ii) highlights two key findings: an asymmetry in control (interaction kinetics exert stronger, more consistent influence than protein abundance) and a topology-driven convergence whereby a vast parameter space funnels into a finite set of recurrent behaviours; (iii) shows that resistance is a network-level property, with many possible routes but a small set of recurrent hubs/modules dominating; and (iv) provides a qualitative alignment with single-cell reporter data while clarifying the intent and limits of that comparison. Moreover, we now explicitly discuss limitations (rate-law simplifications, broad priors, determinism, and modular abstractions) and outline next steps for future research, including data-constrained priors and stochastic extensions.

      We believe these revisions materially strengthen the manuscript and fully address all the reviewers’ comments. A detailed, point-by-point response follows.

      Joint Recommendations for the Authors:

      (1) It is confusing exactly what are the different sets evaluated in each cases, e.g. "generated 100,000 model instances, each with the same set of ICs but a unique set of randomly generated parameter values" (lines 299-300), "generated 100,000 model instances (in triplicate), each with the same set of 'nominal' parameter values (see supplementary Table S1), and a unique set of ICs, and repeated the analysis as performed previously" (lines 366-368), "combined the 1000 IC sets with each parameter set to create 1000 model instances" (lines 382-383), "repeated for 1000 parameter sets, allowing us to observe how frequently IC variation induced adaptive resistance independent of the chosen parameter set" (lines 386-387). A small table or just a clearer explanation is needed.

      In response to these comments, we have revised the main text to clarify the process of model instance generation. Specifically, we have made changes at page 7: line 297 - page 8: line 302, page 8: lines 305 - 310, page 9: lines 372-378, and page 9: line 384 – page 10: line 399 in the revised main text.

      We have also added a new Figure (Figure S1) to the supplementary file to allow readers to visualise the model generation process for each relevant set of experiments. Supplementary figures are referenced in the main text where appropriate.

      (2) The authors mentioned performing each simulation in triplicate, which is puzzling as the model is based on deterministic ODEs with fixed parameters for each simulation. Under such conditions, one would anticipate identical results from multiple simulations with the same initial conditions and fixed parameters. Perhaps the authors expect the model to exhibit chaos or aim to assess the precision of the parameter estimates through triplicate simulations. Further clarification from the authors would be valuable to comprehend the rationale behind conducting triplicate simulations in a deterministic setting.

      We agree that repeating deterministic ODE simulations with identical inputs would be redundant. In our study, “triplicate” referred instead to generating three independent ensembles of 100,000 unique model instances each, where model parameters (or initial conditions) were randomly resampled. These ensembles were analysed separately to assess whether the inferred meta-dynamic distributions converged robustly. Indeed, the distributions from the three replicates were nearly indistinguishable, confirming that the results are reproducible and not artefacts of a particular random draw.

      We have revised the main text to clarify this distinction (page 8: lines 305 - 310) and added an extended explanation for meta-dynamic behaviour convergence in the new section Error Convergence in the supplementary text (page 6: lines 184 - 210).

      (3) While the lack of a connection between model parameters and biological data (mentioned in the public review) may not be a fatal flaw in the manuscript, the concern about the 100,000 random samples being insufficient to explore the parameter space is valid. In a thought experiment, considering the high and low rate for each parameter and the combinatorial explosion of possibilities (2^94), the number of simulations performed (100,000) represents only an extremely small fraction of the entire parameter space (~1/10^(23)). This limitation might not accurately capture the true heterogeneity present inside a solid tumour. One potential solution is to determine biological bounds on model parameters through data fitting, which can provide more meaningful constraints for the simulations. Alternatively, increasing the number of simulations and adopting more efficient sampling techniques can enhance the coverage of possible parameter sets.

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful comment. We agree that the 94-dimensional parameter space is vast, and that 100,000 simulations represent only a fraction of the total combinatorial possibilities. However, the objective of our study is not to exhaustively sample the entire parameter space, but rather to sufficiently sample the ‘output space’ - that is, the complete spectrum of qualitative dynamic behaviours the network topology can generate. The key question is whether 100,000 model instances are sufficient for the distribution of these output dynamics to converge.

      To formally address this, we have performed a convergence analysis, which is now detailed in the new supplementary section "Error Convergence" (Supplementary text page 6: lines 184 - 210) and illustrated in Supplementary Figure S12. This analysis demonstrates that the mean squared error (MSE) between dynamic distributions from N and 2N simulations exponentially decreases as N increases, and the distribution of protein dynamics changes negligibly well before reaching 100,000 instances. Furthermore, performing the entire analysis in triplicate with independent random seeds yielded nearly identical meta-dynamic maps (average standard deviation < 0.04%), giving us high confidence that we have robustly captured the network's behavioural repertoire.

      We believe this convergence occurs because the system is degenerate: many distinct parameter sets within the high-dimensional space map to the same qualitative outcome (e.g., 'rebound' or 'decreasing'). Our goal was to capture the set of possible outcomes, not every unique parameter combination that leads to them.

      Regarding the parameter range, we intentionally chose a broad, unbiased range (10<sup>-5</sup> to 10<sup4></sup>)as a proof-of-concept to delineate the theoretical upper limit of heterogeneity the network can support, thereby capturing even rare but potentially critical resistance dynamics. We agree with the reviewer that a future direction is to constrain these ranges using biological data. Such an approach would transition from defining what is possible (the focus of this manuscript) to predicting what is probable in a specific biological context. We have added this important point to the Discussion (page 16: lines 663-679) to highlight this avenue for future work.

      (4) One of the manuscript's main results indicates that protein interactions play a more significant role in driving adaptive resistance than protein expression. To explore the impact of protein expression, the authors fixed a nominal parameter set and generated 100,000 initial concentrations of the 50 proteins in the ODE model. However, the simulations' equilibrium concentrations in the "starvation" and "fed" phases, which form the initial condition for the treated phase, are uniquely determined by the nominal model's kinetic parameters and not the initial conditions, which remain identical for each simulation. From a dynamical systems perspective, stable steady states are determined by the model parameters and attract all initial conditions within their basin of attraction. As a result, a random sampling of the initial conditions has a limited impact on the model dynamics. The authors' conclusion that "the ability of expression to induce resistance also seems to be dependent on the master parameter set" can be explained by this dynamical systems perspective, where the resistance state corresponds to a stable steady state determined by the master parameter set. Considering this, the evidence presented in the manuscript may not fully support the authors' conclusion regarding the importance of protein expressions relative to protein dynamics. The discrepancy might be attributed to a possible misunderstanding of this point, and further clarification from the authors could be helpful.

      We thank the reviewer for the thoughtful perspective. We agree that, in a monostable system with fixed kinetic parameters and fixed conserved totals, varying only the initial split among moieties (e.g., X vs pX) will not change the final steady state; trajectories converge to the same attractor. In our analysis, however, “initial conditions” predominantly refer to total protein abundances (e.g., X_tot = X + pX + complexes), used as a proxy for expression heterogeneity. These totals are invariants on the simulated timescale (no synthesis/degradation in the pre-equilibration phases), and therefore alter the value of the steady state under a given parameter set. In other words, our IC sampling mostly varies conserved totals rather than merely redistributing a fixed total; hence the equilibrium reached after the starvation/fed pre-equilibrations depends on the sampled totals and the kinetics. This can be seen in the new Supplementary Figure S4, showing that changing the ICs does shift the eventual steady state even when kinetic parameters are fixed.

      We have revised the text to: (1) define ICs explicitly as total abundances for multi-state species, (2) distinguish “initial split” from “conserved totals,” and (3) clarify that expression effects are context-dependent rather than universally dominant (page 4: lines 139-141 and page 10: lines 413-416)

      (5) Additionally, it is important to note that the random sampling of 100,000 initial concentrations might not sufficiently explore the vast space of possible initial conditions. In the thought experiment mentioned earlier, where each protein can have high or low expression concentrations, there are approximately 2^(50) = ~10^(15) possible combinations of initial concentrations. Thus, the 100,000 random simulations only represent around ~1/10^(10) of the possible initial conditions in this simplistic scenario. Consequently, this limited sampling of initial conditions may not provide enough information to draw meaningful conclusions, even if the initial conditions were more directly linked to kinetic rates.

      Please see our response to Comment (3). Briefly, our ICs are continuous total abundances (conserved moieties), not binary high/low states; many IC configurations converge to the same qualitative attractors, so we estimate distributional properties rather than enumerate all combinations. Our convergence diagnostics (independent replicates and sample-size doubling) show that the meta-dynamic distributions stabilise well before N=100,000 (see Supplementary Figure S12). We have clarified this in the Supplementary Information (Error Convergence section) with the new convergence results.

      (6) The authors implement a parameter selection step in the manuscript, where they filter out parameter sets that lead to what they term non-biological simulations. However, the rationale for determining if a given parameter set results in a stiff system of ODEs remains unclear. The authors cite references [38,39] to support the claim that stiff equations are not biologically plausible. Still, upon review, it is evident that [38] does not include the term "stiff," and [39] discusses using implicit methods to simulate stiff ODE models without specifically commenting on the biological plausibility of stiff systems. The manuscript lacks direct evidence to justify the conclusion that filtering out parameter sets that result in stiff ODE systems is reasonable. Since the filtering step accounts for the majority of discarded parameter sets, a stronger foundation is required to support the statement that stiff equations are non-biological.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out the issue in our original justification. The reviewer is correct: stiff systems are a common feature of biological models, and our claim that they are likely ‘biologically implausible’ was not well substantiated. The filtering of these model instances was, in fact, due to a computational limitation rather than a biological principle. The issue was that these parameter sets produced systems of ODEs that were so numerically stiff they were unsolvable within a reasonable timeframe by the SUNDIALS ODE solver suite, which is specifically designed for such systems.

      Following the reviewer's comment, we investigated the source of this prohibitive stiffness. We discovered it was not an intrinsic property of the parameter sets themselves, but rather an artifact of our simulation setup. The extreme stiffness occurred almost exclusively during the initial integration timesteps, caused by the large initial discrepancy between the concentrations of active and inactive protein forms. This large discrepancy created the conditions for overtly stiff solutions i.e. unsolvable with implemented ODE solve settings. To overcome this problem, we set a large maximum number of steps in the ODE solver for the first couple of time points, enabling the solver to overcome the excessively stiff portion of the solve. We found that the vast majority of the previously 'unsolvable' model instances could now be successfully simulated. Consequently, the number of parameter sets discarded due to solver failure is now negligible (< 1%), and this filtering step no longer accounts for the majority of discarded parameter sets. Most importantly, the distributions of dynamics were not significantly altered by this adaptation.

      We have revised the " Sampling and filtering of model instances (page 5: lines 174 – 189)" part in the Methods section to reflect this more accurate understanding. We have corrected our original claim regarding the biological plausibility of stiff systems and corrected our use of the references. Ref [38] was included to demonstrate that models of biological systems are stiff, which was a major conclusion of that paper, and [39] was originally included to demonstrate that solving ODEs is reliant on solvers that can integrate stiff systems. Upon review, ref [39] has been removed.

      Overall, this investigation has made our analysis more robust by allowing us to include a wider, more representative range of parameter sets, and has tangibly improved the quality of our study.

      (7) Additionally, it is important to consider the standard method for accounting for stiff systems, as presented in [39], which involves using implicit numerical methods for ODE simulation. The authors mention using numerical methods from the SUNDIALS suite, which includes implicit methods, but the specific numerical method used remains unclear. Furthermore, it would be valuable for the authors to disclose the number of parameter sets that were filtered to obtain the final set of 100,000 accepted parameter sets. This information would provide insights into the extent of filtering and the proportion of parameter sets that were excluded during the selection process.

      We apologise for the lack of specific detail and have now updated the text. To clarify, all ODE simulations were performed using the CVODE solver from the SUNDIALS suite. This solver employs an implicit, variable-order, variable-step Backward Differentiation Formula (BDF) method, which is robust and specifically designed for handling the stiff systems common in biological network modelling. We have now explicitly stated this in the "ODE model construction, modelling, and simulations (page 4: lines 162 – 164)" section of the Methods.

      Regarding the filtered parameters, we have included a revised and detailed discussion of this in the "Sampling and filtering of model instances (page 5: lines 174 – 189)" part in the Methods section (see our response to comment (6) above). Briefly, after applying the filters, ~40–45% of instances did not reach steady state within the simulation timeframe, and ~50–55% did not meet the minimum drug-response criterion. Approximately 10% satisfied all criteria and were retained for analysis. Importantly, we employed ‘rejection sampling’ and continued drawing until we had N = 100,000 accepted instances that satisfied all the criteria.

      (8) An important step in the simulation process described by the authors is the simulation of the "fasted" and "fed" states until an equilibrium is reached. However, it is not clear how the authors determine if the system has reached an equilibrium. It would be helpful if the authors could provide more information regarding the criteria used to assess equilibrium in the simulations. Regarding the "fed" state, it is not explicitly stated whether the mitogen stimulus is assumed to be constant throughout the "fed" experiment. Considering the dynamic nature of mitogen stimulation in biological systems, it would be beneficial if the authors could clarify this assumption and discuss its biological relevance.

      We apologise for the lack not specifying this in the original text. A simulation was considered to have reached equilibrium when the concentration of every protein species changed by < 1% over the final 100 time steps of the simulation phase. We have now added this criterion to the "Sampling and filtering of model instances (page 5: lines 177 – 179)" part of the Methods section.

      Regarding the second part of the comment, in our simulations, both the mitogenic and the drug inputs were modelled as constant, stepwise functions that, once turned on, remained at a fixed concentration for the remainder of the simulation. The biological rationale for this choice was to rigorously test for bona fide adaptive resistance. By maintaining a constant mitogenic and drug pressure, we can ensure that any observed recovery in the activity of downstream proteins is due to the internal rewiring and adaptation of the signalling network itself, rather than an artefact of the removal or decay of the external stimulus/drugs. We have now clarified this rationale in the "ODE model construction, modelling, and simulations (page 4: lines 168 – 171)" part of the Methods section.

      (9) The "Description of Model Scope and Construction" section in the Supplementary Information should include explicitly the model reactions and some discussion about their specific form (e.g., why is '(((kc2f1*pIR*PI3K) / (1 + (pS6K/Ki2))) + (kc2f2*pFGFR*PI3K))' representing the phosphorylation rate of PI3K, with pS6K in the denominator?).

      The reviewer is right to ask for model justification. We have expanded the Supplementary “Description of Model Scope and Construction” section (page 2: line 63 – page 5: line 185) to include a complete reaction list with rate laws and a brief rationale for each. We also explain the specific PI3K phosphorylation term: activation by pIR and pFGFR is attenuated by pS6K via a denominator, which captures the well-described S6K-mediated negative feedback that reduces activation (e.g., via IRS1 phosphorylation).

      (10) In line 349, the statement "Given that CDK46cycD is only strongly suppressed in just under 60% of the model instances (Figure 3C)" lacks clarity regarding where to look to interpret the 60% value. If this means that 4 out of the 7 model instances are resistant, and the other 2 proteins also have the same percentage of resistance, then there is no apparent reason to focus solely on CDK46cycD.

      The reviewer is correct; the figure reference was an error, which has been rectified in the main text (page 9: line 355). The actual figure reference was to Supplementary Figure 2A, which shows the heatmap of all the frequencies for each protein dynamics for all the active protein forms. CDK4/6cycD shows a sustained decreasing dynamic for 59.93% of model instances, which is where this number was derived. We have also now explicitly referenced this number in the supplementary Figure 2A legend.

      We focus on CDK4/6cycD because it is the direct pharmacological target of CDK4/6 inhibitors. Our point was to suggest that even when the target is suppressed in the majority of instances (~60%), this does not reliably propagate to uniform downstream inhibition across the network, thus highlighting emergent, network-driven adaptive responses.

      (11) We observed that in Fig. 5A, the authors show that multiple pathways are blocked. However, it is unclear whether they reduced the value of one parameter in the experiment or simulated multiple combinations of parameter inhibition. Considering the large number of parameters (94) in the model, if the authors simulated all possible combinations of parameter inhibition, the number of combinations would be significantly more than 94. An actual inhibitor typically has an inhibitory effect on multiple molecules. Therefore, it would be necessary to identify the parameters that lead to drug resistance when multiple molecules are inhibited. However, examining the inhibition patterns for all 94 parameters would be practically impossible. As a potential approach, we suggest using ensemble learning techniques, such as random forests, to handle this problem efficiently. With a dataset of binary outputs indicating the presence or absence of resistance for a sufficient number of inhibition patterns, ensemble learning can be applied to find the parameters that contribute to drug resistance. Popular feature selection algorithms like Boruta could be utilised to identify the most relevant parameters. The results obtained by ensemble learning are similar to the ranking in Fig. 5C, potentially providing a more robust validation of the authors' findings. By incorporating these additional analyses, the authors could strengthen the reliability and significance of their results related to parameter inhibition and drug resistance.

      We appreciate the suggestion and the opportunity to clarify. Figure 5A depicts multiple pathways were interrogated, but in the analysis, parameters were inhibited one at a time (OAT) - not in combination. We have revised the figure legend and added a section named “Protein knockdown perturbation analyses (page 6: lines 228 – 233)” in the Methods section to make this explicit. Moreover, some additional text in the main text has been slightly modified to make this clearer (page 11: lines 462-463, page 24: lines 856-857).

      We chose the OAT design intentionally to obtain causal, first-order attribution of control points across a broad parameter ensemble without confounding from simultaneous co-inhibition. This provides an interpretable ranking of primary drivers (Figure 5C) that is consistent with the paper’s mechanistic focus. We agree that a multi-target inhibition approach could be a useful next step; however, an exhaustive combinatorial screen is beyond the scope of this proof-of-concept. In such future studies, the ensemble learning, as suggested by the reviewer, could be layered onto our MDN framework to assess robustness of the ranking under co-inhibition.

      (12) In explaining the parameterization of the model, we find an implication of a quantitative model. However, upon examining the results in Fig. 7D, we observe that they are only qualitatively correct. When comparing Figs. 7A and 7C, we note that many model instances are immediately suppressed, and the time scale remains unknown. We believe it would be essential for the authors to explain how the model of this study maintains its quantitative nature despite the results in Fig. 7. If such an explanation cannot be provided, it raises concerns regarding the biological reliability of several findings within this study.

      While our framework is built on quantitative ODEs, the validation we present in Figure 7 is indeed qualitative. This is an intentional and key feature of our study's design. Our goal was not to build a calibrated, quantitative model of a specific cell line (e.g., MCF10A), but rather to establish a proof-of-concept theoretical framework that systematically explores the full spectrum of dynamic behaviours a given network topology can possibly generate. To achieve this, we intentionally sampled parameters from a very broad, unbiased range to delineate the theoretical upper limit of heterogeneity. This in silico population is therefore designed to be far more heterogeneous than any single isogenic cell line.

      The striking qualitative agreement seen between our meta-dynamic distributions and the single-cell data in Figure 7D is thus not a failure of quantitative prediction, but rather a strong validation of our core premise: that a significant degree of signalling heterogeneity exists in cell populations and that our framework can effectively capture its emergent properties.

      Regarding the specific comment on Figure 7C, we apologise for the lack of clarity. Nominally, we chose to simulate for 24 hours however, the x-axis in our simulations represents arbitrary time units, as the timescale is dependent on the meaning/units of the parameter values. The goal is to compare the qualitative shape of the response (e.g., rebound, sustained decrease), not the absolute time in hours. Moreover the rapid initial suppression seen in many of our model instances (Fig 7C) is a direct parallel to the rapid suppression seen in the experimental data (Fig 7A). This initial phase is followed by a wide variety of adaptive behaviours (or lack thereof) in both our simulations and the real cells, which is the key phenomenon we are studying.

      We have revised the text (page 14: lines 598-601) and Figure 7’s legend to state more explicitly that our validation is qualitative and to clarify the purpose of our broad, uncalibrated approach. We have also added a note in the Discussion (page 18: lines 744-747) that calibrating this framework with cell-line-specific data is a natural next step for generating quantitative, context-specific predictions.

      (13) Related to the previous point, the experimental data is presented as fold-change during CDK4/6 inhibition, and we notice that the initial fold-change at time 0 varies between 1 and 1.8. The difference in initial fold-change is unclear to us, as our understanding of fold-change typically corresponds to the change from baseline, typically represented by the protein concentration at time 0.

      Furthermore, while the experimental data exhibits uniformly decreasing CDK4/6 activity, a substantial number of simulations indicate constant CDK4/6cycD, showing a significant qualitative discrepancy between the simulations and experimental findings. This disparity makes it difficult for us to interpret the comparison between the two datasets effectively, given the complexities in comprehending the experimental fold-change figure.

      As Figure 7 serves as the primary validation of model simulations in the manuscript, we believe that the current presentation may not provide a compelling reason to believe that the model accurately captures experimental data. To enhance clarity and validation, we suggest overlaying the experimental data over the simulations or considering the median and 10/90% percentile of the experimental data, which may potentially offer improved readability and facilitate a more robust interpretation of the comparison.

      The experimental data from Yang et al. (ref 55, main text) measures kinase activity using a nucleus-to-cytoplasm translocation reporter system, wherein a bait protein is phosphorylated by the target kinase causing it to translocate from the nucleus to the cytoplasm. Hence, the y-axis represents the ratio of nuclear vs. cytoplasmic fluorescence, not a fold-change from a t=0 baseline. The variation in the starting value (between 1 and 1.8) reflects the inherent heterogeneity in the reporter's localization across individual cells even before the drug is added. We have updated the y-axis label and revised Fig. 7’s legend to state this explicitly.

      The most likely explanation for the discrepancy between experimental dynamics and our simulation dynamics is that the experimental data comes from an isogenic cell line that is largely sensitive to CDK4/6 inhibition. Our simulations are derived from a very wide parameter sweep, where the intent is to represent all possible cell states. It is quite striking that that there is such a high correlation between the experimental data and simulations, indicating that perhaps the heterogeneity of even isogenic cell lines is significantly greater than might be intuited; a point we now mention in the revised Discussion (page 17: lines 716-727).

      It is worth noting again, that our analysis is intentionally constructed to be as heterogeneous as possible, and is not trained on any biological data that might otherwise constrain the output-behaviour space. The isogenic cell line almost certainly represents a much more constrained output-behaviour space than our analysis.

      The y-axis label has also been updated accordingly. As mentioned in (12) this result is intended as a qualitative validation, showing that cell lines indeed have highly variable signalling dynamics. Given the range of parameters tested, we think it is surprising that the degree of agreement between the experiment and our analysis is as high as it is. Again, we believe this suggests that heterogeneity may be more prevalent than is intuited. We do not believe we have made any strong quantitative claims in the main text, and we certainly aim to work towards biological, quantitative validation in the future. Finally, we altered the wording of the results heading (page 14: line 562) to make it clear that we are only making qualitative claims and removed the claim that the evidence was strong.

      With these clarifications and corrections, we believe the validation is now much more compelling. The key point is not a perfect quantitative match, but the strong similarity in the distribution of heterogeneous behaviours.

      (14) The authors mention simulating treatment with 10nM of CDK4/6i or Ei, but specific details on how this treatment is included in the model simulations are not provided. This lack of information makes it challenging to fully evaluate the comparison between model simulations and experimental evidence in Figure 7. It would be highly appreciated if the authors could clarify how the treatment with CDK4/6i or Ei is incorporated into the simulations to facilitate a better understanding and interpretation of the results.

      To clarify, the effects of the inhibitors were incorporated directly into the kinetic rate laws of their respective target reactions.

      CDK4/6 inhibitor (CDK4/6i): This was modelled as an inhibitor of the formation of the active CDK4/6-cyclin D complex. We have now explicitly detailed this in the description for reaction R27 in the "Description of Model Scope and Construction" section of the Supplementary Information.

      Estrogen Receptor inhibitor (Ei): This was modelled as an inhibitor of the estrogen-dependent activation of the Estrogen Receptor. This is now explicitly detailed in the description for reaction R15 in the same supplementary section.

      It is however important to reiterate that our goal in Figure 7 is qualitative, shape-based comparison; therefore, we used a fixed fractional inhibition (reported in Methods) rather than a calibrated IC50/Hill model.

      (15) The authors state strong support for their modelling conclusions based on the literature. However, we still have concerns regarding the validation of the model against CDK2 or CDK4/6 data in Figure 7, as it appears less convincing to us. Furthermore, the authors list known resistance mechanisms that are replicated in their modelling. Nevertheless, we find the conclusion somewhat weakened by Figure S10, where approximately 80% of the nodes are implicated in some form of resistance pathway. This raises questions about the model's selectivity, as many proteins included in the model seem to drive resistance in some manner. In the Supplementary Information, the authors mention excluding or abstracting some protein species from the mitogenic and cell cycle pathways to manage computational resources effectively. This abstraction makes it difficult to determine if the proteins identified as potential drivers of resistance genuinely drive resistance or might represent abstractions of other potential drivers. To enhance the manuscript's clarity and address potential concerns about the model's selectivity and abstraction, we suggest providing more details and discussion in the main text.

      The reviewer's observation that a large number of nodes are implicated in resistance pathways in Figure S10 is correct. However, we argue this is not a weakness of the model's selectivity, but rather a key finding that reflects the biological reality of adaptive resistance. The literature is replete with a wide and growing number of distinct mechanisms of resistance even to a single class of drugs (1,2), which supports the idea that cancer can co-opt a wide variety of network nodes to survive.

      Figure S10 is not a binary map where every implicated node is equal, instead it is a likelihood map, where the colour and weight of the connections represent how often a particular interaction participates in driving resistance across the theoretical full range of possible network dynamics. The figure shows that while many nodes can contribute to resistance, they do so in a hub-like manner i.e. small subsets of nodes coordinate to drive resistance. This provides a rationalised, data-driven prioritisation of the most dominant and recurrent resistance strategies. We draw two important conclusions from this work 1) Resistance likely occurs due to resistance hubs, not individual proteins, and 2) that the frequency of a resistance hub in an MDN analysis is likely proportional to the frequency of that hub emerging as a resistance mechanism in a population of cells and patients.

      Regarding the issue of abstraction, the reviewer is correct that this is an inherent feature of any tractable systems model. In our case, several species in the mitogenic/cell-cycle pathways are module-level proxies to control model size. The highly implicated "hub" nodes in our model likely represent critical cellular processes that are themselves composed of several individual protein interactions.

      To address these concerns, we have significantly revised the Discussion (page 16: lines 681 – 694) to: (1) frame resistance as a network-level phenomenon; (2) show that our frequency-based ranking is selective, prioritising the most probable, recurrent mechanisms; and (3) clarify that - given model abstraction -our findings implicate critical processes (modules), not just single proteins, as the drivers.

      Overall, these changes do not alter our main conclusions: adaptive resistance is an emergent, network-level property; many routes exist, but a smaller set of nodes/modules consistently carry the largest influence across heterogeneous contexts.

      (16) We consider that the figures and legends, including the supplementary information, are inadequately explained. The information provided is insufficient for us to comprehend the figures fully, leading to the need for interpretation on our part as readers. This could potentially introduce biases when trying to understand the claims made by the authors. To improve our understanding, it would be essential for the authors to assign appropriate labels to the figures and provide comprehensive explanations in the legends. For example, in Fig 3, we suggest labelling the tree diagrams in panels A and B, as well as the colour bars. We also recommend applying the same approach to other figures, adding accurate axis labels and descriptions of colour gradients to enhance clarity.

      We thank the reviewer for this critical feedback. To address this comment, the figure legends have been revised where appropriate and greatly expanded to improve their comprehension. Moreover, we have added explicit labels to all previously unlabelled components, such as the cluster dendrograms and colour code bars in Figure 3A, B.

      (17) To enhance readability, we recommend interchanging the order of Figures 1 and 2 in the sequence they appear in the main text. Alternatively, the text can be adjusted to refer to the figures in the correct order. Additionally, attention should be given to the bottom of Fig 1, which appears to be cropped or cut off. Furthermore, the incorrect word spacing in some figure elements, such as Fig. 3A title, Fig. 5B title, and Fig. 6B y-label, should be corrected for improved visual presentation.

      Following the reviewer’s comment, the order of Figures 1 and 2 has been switched to reflect the order in which they are referred to in the main text. These Figures have been re-exported to fix unintentional word spacing errors.

      (18) We recommend that the language used to refer to the initial conditions in the manuscript is clarified and homogenised. Currently, the authors use different terms such as "basal expression," "protein expression," "state variable values," or "initial conditions" to refer to them. This variation in terminology can be confusing for readers. In particular, the use of "basal expression" is problematic, as it typically refers to the leaky value of a reaction in the absence of an inducer, making it another biophysical parameter of the system rather than an initial condition. To enhance clarity and consistency, we suggest the authors decide on a single term to refer to the initial conditions throughout the manuscript and provide a clear explanation of its meaning to avoid any confusion. This will help readers better understand the concept being discussed and prevent any potential misinterpretations.

      We thank the reviewer for this very helpful suggestion. To resolve this and improve clarity, we have homogenized the language throughout the manuscript. We now clarify the use the following 3 terms in their specific contexts:

      We use “protein abundances” exclusively for the conserved total abundances of multi-state species (e.g., Xtot = X + pX + complexes) that are sampled across instances to represent expression heterogeneity.

      We use ‘initial conditions’ to refer to initial values of the state variables in a model simulation. This term is related to protein abundance as the setting of initial conditions for conserved species sets the protein abundance. This is explicitly stated in the text (page 3: lines 87 - 91).

      We use “state variables” to refer to the time-dependent model species.

      We avoid the term “basal expression” in technical descriptions. Where a biology-facing phrase is helpful, we use “protein expression level”. This is used when referring to the biological concept that the initial conditions are intended to represent, i.e. the heterogeneity in protein amounts across a cell population.

      We have performed a thorough search-and-replace to ensure this new convention is applied consistently and have removed the potentially confusing term "basal expression" from the revised manuscript.

      (19) Why are saturable functions (e.g., Michaelis-Menten functions) ignored in the model? What are the potential consequences?

      The main objective of this work was to perform a large-scale, systematic exploration of a high-dimensional parameter space (94 parameters) to map the full repertoire of qualitative dynamic behaviours a network topology can support. Using saturable functions like Michaelis-Menten kinetics would have roughly doubled the number of parameters to be explored (from k to Vmax and Km for each enzymatic reaction), making a parameter sweep of this scale computationally intractable. We therefore prioritised the breadth of the parameter search over the depth of kinetic detail, which we believe is the appropriate choice for a proof-of-concept study focused on heterogeneity.

      This simplification has potential consequences. A major one is that our model cannot capture phenomena that arise specifically from enzyme saturation, such as zero-order kinetics or certain forms of ultrasensitivity (switch-like responses). However, we argue that this is an acceptable trade-off for two main reasons: (1) Our analysis is based on classifying broad, qualitative response shapes (increasing, decreasing, rebound, etc.). Mass-action kinetics are fully capable of generating this rich spectrum of behaviours; and (2) by varying the mass-action rate constants over nine orders of magnitude (from 10<sup>-5</sup> to 10<sup4></sup>), our parameter sweep effectively samples a vast range of reaction efficiencies. A very low rate-constant can approximate the behaviour of a saturated, low-efficiency enzyme, while a high rate-constant can approximate a highly efficient, non-saturated one. In this way, the broad sweep of the rate parameter partially reflects the effects that would be captured by varying Vmax and Km.

      For transparency, we have added a brief rationale to the “ODE model construction, modelling, and simulations” part of the Methods (revised main text, page 4: lines 153-155) and the "Description of Model Scope and Construction" section in the Supplementary file (Supplementary text page 2: lines 63-73).

      (20) Given the relevance of the concept of "heterogeneity" in this work, a short discussion about biochemical noise and its implications on the analysis (e.g., why it is not included, and if it will be a next step) would be appreciated.

      Our MDN modelling framework represents heterogeneity by creating an ensemble of deterministic models, where each model instance has a unique set of kinetic parameters and/or initial protein abundances. We propose that this is a powerful way to mechanistically represent the functional consequences of all sources of cellular variation. Over time, the effects of genetic mutations, epigenetic states, and even the time-averaged impact of intrinsic biochemical noise will manifest as changes in the effective interaction strengths and protein concentrations within a cell. Our large-scale parameter/IC sweep is designed to systematically explore the full range of dynamic behaviours that can emerge from this underlying biological variation. Therefore, our approach does not compete with stochastic modelling but is complementary to it. While stochastic simulations can capture the dynamic trajectories of single cells, our framework provides a panoramic view of the entire spectrum of possible stable phenotypes that can emerge at the population level. We agree that modelling intrinsic biochemical noise (stochasticity arising from finite copy numbers), e.g. using chemical Langevin or SSA, is a possible extension in future work but expected to be very computationally expensive. We have added a brief discussion on this as future direction in the revised Discussion.

      (21) We have noticed that the first four paragraphs of the Discussion section overlap with the Introduction, as they mainly reiterate the significance of the study itself rather than focusing on the specific results obtained. To avoid redundancy and provide a more cohesive and informative discussion, we recommend that the authors shift the focus of the Discussion section towards presenting potential interpretations, even if they are not definitive, of the results obtained. By doing so, the Discussion will serve as a valuable platform for deeper analysis and insightful observations, allowing readers to better comprehend the implications and significance of the research findings.

      We thank the reviewer for this structural feedback. Following the reviewer's feedback, we have significantly rewritten and restructured the Discussion section. The redundant introductory material has been removed.

      The rewritten Discussion centres on interpretation, implications, and connect our findings to the literature. It now: (i) frames MDN as a systems-level framework that links molecular heterogeneity to qualitative signalling “meta-dynamics” and adaptive escape under constant drug pressure; (ii) highlights two key findings: an asymmetry in control (interaction kinetics exert stronger, more consistent influence than protein abundance) and a topology-driven convergence whereby a vast parameter space funnels into a finite set of recurrent behaviours; (iii) shows that resistance is a network-level property, with many possible routes but a small set of recurrent hubs/modules dominating; and (iv) provides a qualitative alignment with single-cell reporter data while clarifying the intent and limits of that comparison. Moreover, we now explicitly discuss limitations (rate-law simplifications, broad priors, determinism, and modular abstractions) and outline next steps for future research, including data-constrained priors and stochastic extensions.

      We believe this substantial revision has transformed the Discussion into a much more insightful and valuable part of the manuscript that directly addresses the reviewer's concerns.

      (22) The supplemental text file containing the model equations can be a bit challenging to read and understand. It would be greatly beneficial if the authors could consider generating a file using a typesetting program.

      We have now included a typeset list of state variable equations and ODEs, along with the original model files.

      (23) The authors mentioned that some model parameterizations result in negative solutions, which is surprising. Access to the model equations would help understand why this happens and is crucial for researchers who may want to use this approach. Clarifying the model equations' presentation would enhance transparency and aid other researchers in applying this method for similar research questions.ach. Clarifying the model equations' presentation would enhance transparency and aid other researchers in applying this method for similar research questions.

      The reviewer is correct to be surprised by the mention of negative solutions, as negative concentrations are physically impossible. We clarify that these are not a result of any structural flaw in our model's equations but are a well-known, although rare, numerical artifact of floating-point arithmetic in computational solvers.

      Our model is constructed using standard mass-action and first-order kinetics, which structurally guarantee non-negativity. However, when a species' concentration approaches the limits of machine precision (i.e., becomes a very small number extremely close to zero), the ODE solver can, in rare instances, numerically undershoot zero, resulting in a small negative value. If this occurs, it can lead to instability in subsequent integration steps.

      This is not a biological phenomenon but a computational one. Therefore, the standard and appropriate procedure, which we follow, is to implement a filter that discards any simulation trajectory where such a numerical instability occurs.

      (24) The reference listed for the CDK4/6 and CDK2 measurements is Yang et al. [55] in the figure caption, but as Xe et al. in lines 559-561 of the manuscript.

      The text has been updated to match citation.

      (25) We suggest that the authors revise and cite a previous study conducted by Yamada et al. (Scientific Reports, 2018), which presents an approach to expressing cell heterogeneity as a probability distribution of model parameters.

      Following this suggestion, we have revised the Discussion (see response to comment (21)) to include and discuss Yamada et al. (Scientific Reports, 2018), which models cell heterogeneity as a probability distribution over parameter values.

      (26) In the manuscript, on line 677, the authors state, "This indicates that there is an upper limit to the degree to which parameter sets can influence the qualitative shape of a protein's dynamic within a given network topology." We wish to highlight that this finding may not be particularly surprising. Given that the parameters were randomly determined within a specific range, it is understandable that altering the number of parameter samples would not substantially impact the distribution of model instances.

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful comment, which allows us to clarify the significance of this finding. While it is true that any sampling from a fixed distribution will eventually converge statistically, our conclusion is not about statistics but about the intrinsic, constraining properties of the network's topology. The novelty is not that the distribution converges, but that it converges to a surprisingly limited and finite repertoire of qualitative dynamic behaviours. A complex, non-linear network with nearly 100 free parameters could theoretically generate an almost endless variety of complex dynamics. Our finding is that this specific biological topology acts as a powerful filter, robustly channelling the vast majority of the near-infinite parameter combinations into a small, recurring set of functional outputs (increasing, decreasing, rebound, etc.).

      The reason for this finite limit is mechanistic, as the reviewer's comment prompted us to investigate further. Our parameter sweep already covers an extremely wide, 9-order-of-magnitude range. As we pushed parameter values to even greater extremes in exploratory simulations, we found they do not generate novel, complex dynamic shapes. Instead, they tend to drive network nodes into saturated states- either permanently "on" (maximally activated) or permanently "off" (minimally activated). In both cases, the node becomes unresponsive to upstream perturbations.

      Therefore, further expanding the parameter range would be unlikely to uncover new behavioural categories; it would simply increase the proportion of model instances classified as "no-response." This demonstrates a fundamental principle: the network topology itself enforces an upper limit on its dynamic complexity. We think this inherent robustness is what allows for reliable cellular signalling in the face of constant biological variation. We believe this is a non-trivial finding, and we have revised the Discussion (page 16: lines 664 - 680) to state this conclusion and its implications more clearly.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript titled "Dynamic Architecture of Mycobacterial Outer Membranes Revealed by All-Atom 1 Simulations", Brown et al describe outcomes of all-atom simulation of a model outer membrane of mycobacteria. This compelling study provided three key insights:

      (1) The likely conformation of the unusually long chain alpha-branched beta-methoxy fatty acids, mycolic acids in the mycomembrane, to be the extended U or Z type rather than the compacted W-type. (2) Outer leaflet lipids such as PDIM and PAT provide regional vertical heterogeneity and disorder in the mycomembrane that is otherwise prevented in a mycolic acid-only bilayer. (3) Removal of specific lipid classes from the symmetric membrane systems leads to significant changes in membrane thickness and resilience to high temperatures.

      In addition to the three key insights, we would like to add one more; (4) asymmetric mycomembrane presents a phase transition from a disordered outer leaflet to an ordered inner leaflet.

      Strengths:

      The authors take a step-wise approach in building the complexity of the membrane and highlight the limitations of each of the approaches. A case in point is the use of supraphysiological temperature of 333 K or even higher temperatures for some of the simulations. Overall, this is a very important piece of work for the mycobacterial field, and will help in the development of membrane-disrupting small molecules and provide important insights for lipid-lipid interactions in the mycomembrane.

      We appreciate Reviewer’s positive view on our work.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The authors used alpha-mycolic acids only for their models. The ratios of alpha, keto, and methoxy-mycolic acids are known in the literature, and it may be worth including these in their model. Future studies can be aimed at addressing changes in the dynamic behavior of the MOM by altering this ratio, but the inclusion of all three forms in the current model will be important and may alter the other major findings of the current study.

      We agree that adjusting the ratios of mycolates may impact the dynamic behavior of the MOM. However, including various ratios of these lipids would require much work and introduce unnecessary complexity to our model; believe or not, the current work took more than 3 years. Investigations into the effects of mycolate structure in the MOM would be interesting and suitable for future studies.

      (2) The findings from the 14 different symmetric membrane systems developed with the removal of one complex lipid at a time are very interesting but have not been analysed/discussed at length in the current manuscript. I find many interesting insights from Figures S3 and S5, which I find missing in the manuscript. These are as follows:

      (a) Loss of PDIM resulted in reduced membrane thickness. This is a very important finding given that loss of PDIM can be a spontaneous phenomenon in Mtb cultures in vitro and that this is driven by increased nutrient uptake by PDIM-deficient bacilli (Domenech and Reed, 2009 Microbiology). While the latter is explained by the enhanced solute uptake by several PE/PPE transporter systems in the absence of PDIM (Wang et al, Science 2020), the findings presented by Brown et al could be very important in this context. A discussion on these aspects would be beneficial for the mycobacterial community.

      Following Reviewer’s suggestion, we have added the following to the Discussion section.

      “The outer leaflet symmetric bilayers, comprised of trehalose-derived glycolipids and PDIMs, reveal PDIM-dependent thickness. As observed in both symmetric outer leaflet systems and asymmetric systems, PDIM migrates to the bilayer midplane, causing the upper leaflet to bulge and increasing the overall thickness. Reduced thickness in the systems lacking PDIM, an important virulence factor for Mtb, may allow for higher nutrient uptake. This corroborates a 2009 study in which Domenech and Reed found a correlation between PDIM absence in vitro and attenuated virulence (Domenech and Reed, 2009).”

      (b) I find it interesting that loss of PAT or DAT does not change membrane thickness (Figure S3). While both PAT and PDIM can migrate to the interleaflet space, loss of PDIM and PAT has a different impact on membrane thickness. It is worth explaining what the likely interactions are that shape membrane thickness in the case of the modelled MOM.

      We have added the following to the section titled “Outer leaflet lipids drive unexpected membrane heterogeneity and softness of the Mycomembrane”.

      “Although PAT also migrates to the bilayer midplane, the PAT-deficient bilayers did not exhibit reduced thickness as the PDIM-deficient thickness did (Supporting Information Table S1). This may be due to fewer PAT than PDIM moving to the bilayer midplane. In the All_Lipids systems, PDIM migrates first, bulging the upper leaflet and reducing lipid headgroup crowding (Supporting Information Figs. S5, S6). In this slightly less crowded environment, hydrophobic forces from PAT’s tails overcome the hydrophilic forces from the trehalose headgroup, causing some PATs to move deeper into the hydrophobic region.”

      (c) Figure S5: Is the presence of SGL driving PDIM and PAT to migrate to the inter-leaflet space? Again, a discussion on major lipid-lipid interactions driving these lipid migrations across the membrane thickness would be useful.

      We have added the following to the section titled “Outer leaflet lipids drive unexpected membrane heterogeneity and softness of the Mycomembrane”.

      “Additionally, in SGL-deficient bilayers, fewer PDIMs and PATs move to the bilayer midplane. This may be due to the highly methylated lipid tails of SGL. When present in the bilayer, these methyl groups may disrupt lipid packing and increase fluidity, allowing more PDIMs to move into the hydrophobic region. Supporting Information Figure S8 shows the average lipid order parameter along each lipid tail for all outer leaflet symmetric systems. Without SGL, lipid tails are consistently more ordered, supporting the notion that SGL’s methylated tails are disrupting lipid packing. Further studies are necessary to investigate the effect of glycolipid-deficient compositions on the dynamic properties of the asymmetric MOM.”

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript reports all-atom molecular dynamics simulations on the outer membrane of Mycobacterium tuberculosis. This is the first all-atom MD simulation of the MTb outer membrane and complements the earlier studies, which used coarse-grained simulation.

      The Reviewer is correct in that this is the first MD simulation of the Mtb outer membrane with diverse lipide types.

      Strengths:

      The simulation of the outer membrane consisting of heterogeneous lipids is a challenging task, and the current work is technically very sound. The observation about membrane heterogeneity and ordered inner leaflets vs disordered outer leaflets is a novel result from the study. This work will also facilitate other groups to work on all-atom models of mycobacterial outer membrane for drug transport, etc.

      We appreciate Reviewer’s positive view on our work.

      Weaknesses:

      Beyond a challenging simulation study, the current manuscript only provides qualitative explanations on the unusual membrane structure of MTb and does not demonstrate any practical utility of the all-atom membrane simulation. It will be difficult for the general biology community to appreciate the significance of the work, based on the manuscript in its current form, because of the high content of technical details and limited evidence on the utility of the work.

      Major Points:

      (1) The simulation by Basu et al (Phys Chem Chem Phys 2024) has studied drug transports through mycolic acid monolayers. Since the authors of the current study have all atom models of MTb outer membrane, they should carry out drug transport simulations and compare them to the outer membranes of other bacteria through which drugs can permeate. In the current manuscript, it is only discussed in lines 388-392. Can the disruption of MA cyclopropanation be simulated to show its effect on membrane structure?

      We acknowledge the potential for simulations of drug transport through our MOM model. However, we believe with the current timescale, these simulations may be better suited for a coarse-grained model of the MOM. We plan to do this in the future, but it is out of the scope of the current study. We have added the following to the Discussion section to address this point.

      “Additionally, coarse-grained models of the outer membrane could aid in drug-transport studies, potentially revealing energetic pathways by which novel antibiotics penetrate the complex cell envelope over larger timescales.”

      (2) In line 277, the authors mention about 6 simulations which mimic lipid knockout strains. The results of these simulations, specifically the outcomes of in silico knockout of lipids, are not described in detail.

      We have added the following to the Discussion section to show the effect of glycolipid composition on the deuterium order parameter.

      “The outer leaflet symmetric bilayers, comprised of trehalose-derived glycolipids and PDIMs, reveal PDIM-dependent thickness. As observed in both symmetric outer leaflet systems and asymmetric systems, PDIM migrates to the bilayer midplane, causing the upper leaflet to bulge and increasing the overall thickness. Reduced thickness in the systems lacking PDIM, an important virulence factor for Mtb, may allow for higher nutrient uptake. This corroborates a 2009 study in which Domenech and Reed found a correlation between PDIM absence in vitro and attenuated virulence (Domenech and Reed, 2009). Although PAT also migrates to the bilayer midplane, the PAT-deficient bilayers did not exhibit reduced thickness as the PDIM-deficient thickness did. This may be due to fewer PAT than PDIM moving to the bilayer midplane. In the All_Lipids systems, PDIM migrates first, bulging the upper leaflet and reducing lipid headgroup crowding. In this slightly less crowded environment, hydrophobic forces from PAT’s tails overcome the hydrophilic forces from the trehalose headgroup, causing some PATs to move deeper into the hydrophobic region. Additionally, in SGL-deficient bilayers, fewer PDIMs and PATs move to the bilayer midplane. This may be due to the highly methylated lipid tails of SGL. When present in the bilayer, these methyl groups may disrupt lipid packing and increase fluidity, allowing more PDIMs to move into the hydrophobic region. Supporting Information Figure S8 shows the average lipid order parameter along each lipid tail for all outer leaflet symmetric systems. Without SGL, lipid tails are consistently more ordered, supporting the notion that SGL’s methylated tails are disrupting lipid packing. Further studies are necessary to investigate the effect of glycolipid-deficient compositions on the dynamic properties of the asymmetric MOM.”

      (3) Figure 5 shows PDIM and PAT-driven lipid redistribution, which is a significant novel observation from the study. However, comparison of 3B and 3D shows that at 313K, the movement of the PDIM head group is much less. Since MD simulations are sensitive to random initial seeds, repeated simulations with different random seeds and initial structures may be necessary.

      The difference in headgroup movement at different temperatures can be attributed to higher kinetics at 333K, causing the lipids to move faster. The relatively slow speed and computational load of running all-atom simulations make it difficult to simulate these lower temperatures on the timescales necessary to observe full aggregation of PDIM. However, CG simulations may be sufficient to sample these events. We have addressed this by adding the following to the Results section.

      “We also observed a stark difference in the speed with which PDIM and PAT migrate to the center at different temperatures. PDIM molecules do not fully aggregate at the membrane center until about 1500 ns at 313K, whereas they accumulate within 500 ns at 333K (Fig. 5B, 5D). This can be attributed to higher kinetics at 333K, causing the lipids to move faster. Coarse-grained models may be sufficient to observe full aggregation of hydrophobic species at the membrane midplane at lower temperatures.”

      (4) As per Figure 1, in the initial structure, the head group of PAT should be on the membrane surface, similar to TDM and TMM, while PDIM is placed towards the interior of the outer membrane. However, Figure 5 shows that at t=0, PAT has the same Z position as PDIM. It will be necessary to provide Z-position Figures for TMM and TDM to understand the difference. Is it really dependent on the chemical structure of the lipid moiety or the initial position of the lipid in the bilayer at the beginning of the simulation?

      We have added the following to the Results section to address this comment.

      “In all symmetric outer leaflet simulations, PDIM and PAT sit just below the headgroups of other lipids at the start of production, due to our equilibration scheme. During the last step of equilibration, lipid headgroups are allowed to move freely, which initiates migration to the membrane center and causes the slight difference between PDIM/PAT and the other lipids’ headgroup positions (Supporting Information Figs. S5, S6).”

      Minor Point:

      In view of the complexity of the system undertaken for the study, the manuscript in its current form may not be informative for readers who are not experts in molecular simulations.

      This work represents the first atomistic simulation of the mycobacterial outer membrane. While not perfectly realistic, as it does not include arabinogalactan or peptidoglycan, it does have extensive descriptions of each lipid simulated and their relevance to the survival of Mtb.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) The interface to build and set up all atom coordinates of the outer membrane of Mycobacterium tuberculosis should be available from CHARMM-GUI.

      The current manuscript is meant as a proof of concept for simulating bilayers composed of complex mycobacterial lipids. The current study itself took more than 3 years. Since we have developed CHARMM-GUI, the lipids described in this paper may be available in CHARMM-GUI in the future, but that is not the aim of this paper. Initial structures and final 50 ns of the simulations are available to readers (see Data Acknowledgements).

      (2) The difference between symmetric and asymmetric systems in Figures 2K and 2L is not at all clear, neither in the legend to the figure nor in the manuscript text. The color codes in 2K and 2L should be described with clarity. The authors should provide schematic diagrams similar to Figure 1 to explain each of the simulation systems they are discussing. This will clarify the difference between symmetric and asymmetric systems.

      We have updated Figure 1 to clearly show which systems are symmetric and which are asymmetric.

      (3) The first two sub-sections of the RESULT section discuss symmetric mycolic acid bilayers. The observations on thermal resilience and phase transitions are interesting, but the relevance of symmetric mycolic acid bilayers (Figures 3 & 4) to the major focus of the current manuscript (i.e., outer membrane consisting of multiple lipids) is not clear.

      Most previous simulations only focused on monolayers of mycolic acids. Our symmetric bilayers are used to provide reasonable APL and system compositions for the asymmetric membrane, so as to avoid area mismatch. We can also gain insights into how these unique lipids behave in symmetric bilayers, which may be useful to scientists aiming to study simpler membranes in the context of drug permeation or pore formation. These points have been addressed in the following addition to the Introduction section.

      “We have also used the equilibrated symmetric bilayers to estimate reasonable areas per lipid and facilitate the modeling of stable asymmetric systems.”

    1. Author response:

      General Statements

      First, we would like to thank the editor at Review Commons for the efficient handling of our manuscript. We also apologize for our delayed response.

      We would like to thank all three reviewers for their careful evaluation of our work and their constructive feedback, which will provide a valuable basis for improving the figures and the text, as described below. We expect to be able to complete the revision following the plan described below quickly.

      We would like to note that the reviewer reports (Rev. #1 and Rev. #3) made us realize that the manuscript text was misleading on the following point. Although we used the purified ATP hydrolysis–deficient Smc protein for sybody isolation, this does not restrict the selection to a specific conformation. As described in detail in Vazquez-Nunez et al. (Figure 5), this mutant displays the ATP-engaged conformation only in a smaller fraction of complexes (~25% in the presence of ATP and DNA), consistent with prior in vivo observations reported by Diebold-Durand et al. (Figure 5). Rather than limiting the selection to a particular configuration, our aim was to reduce the prevalence of the predominant rod state in order to broaden the range of conformations represented during sybody selection. Consistent with this interpretation, only a small number of isolated sybodies show strong conformation-specific binding in the presence or absence of ATP/DNA, as observed by ELISA (now included in the manuscript). We will revise the manuscript text accordingly to clarify this point.

      Description of the planned revisions

      Reviewer #1 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

      Gosselin et al., develop a method to target protein activity using synthetic single-domain nanobodies (sybodies). They screen a library of sybodies using ribosome/ phage display generated against bacillus Smc-ScpAB complex. Specifically, they use an ATP hydrolysis deficient mutant of SMC so as to identify sybodies that will potentially disrupt Smc-ScpAB activity. They next screen their library in vivo, using growth defects in rich media as a read-out for Smc activity perturbation. They identify 14 sybodies that mirror smc deletion phenotype including defective growth in fast-growth conditions, as well as chromosome segregation defects. The authors use a clever approach by making chimeras between bacillus and S. pnuemoniae Smc to narrow-down to specific regions within the bacillus Smc coiled-coil that are likely targets of the sybodies. Using ATPase assays, they find that the sybodies either impede DNA-stimulated ATP hydrolysis or hyperactivate ATP hydrolysis (even in the absence of DNA). The authors propose that the sybodies may likely be locking Smc-ScpAB in the "closed" or "open" state via interaction with the specific coiled-coil region on Smc. I have a few comments that the authors should consider:

      Major comments:

      (1) Lack of direct in vitro binding measurements:

      The authors do not provide measurements of sybody affinities, binding/ unbinding kinetics, stoichiometries with respect to Smc-ScpAB. Additionally, do the sybodies preferentially interact with Smc in ATP/ DNA-bound state? And, do the sybodies affect the interaction of ScpAB with SMC?

      It is understandable that such measurements for 14 sybodies is challenging, and not essential for this study. Nonetheless, it is informative to have biochemical characterization of sybody interaction with the Smc-ScpAB complex for at least 1-2 candidate sybodies described here.

      We agree with the reviewer that adding such data would be reassuring and that obtaining solid data using purified components is not easy even for a smaller selection of sybodies. We have data that show direct binding of Smc to sybodies by various methods including ELISA, pull-downs and by biophysical methods (GCI). Initially, we omitted these data from the manuscript as we are convinced that the mapping data obtained with chimeric SMC proteins is more definitive and relevant.  During the revision we will incorporate the ELISA data showing direct binding and also indicating a lack of preference for a specific state of Smc.

      (2) Many modes of sybody binding to Smc are plausible

      The authors provide an elaborate discussion of sybodies locking the Smc-ScpAB complex in open/ closed states. However, in the absence of structural support, the mechanistic inferences may need to be tempered. For example, is it also not possible for the sybodies to bind the inner interface of the coiled-coil, resulting in steric hinderance to coiled-coil interactions. It is also possible that sybody interaction disrupts ScpAB interaction (as data ruling this possibility out has not been provided). Thus, other potential mechanisms would be worth considering/ discussing. In this direction, did AlphaFold reveal any potential insights into putative binding locations?

      We have attempted to map the binding by structure prediction, however, so far, even the latest versions of AlphaFold are not able to clearly delineate the binding interface. Indeed, many ways of binding are possible, including disruption of ScpAB interaction. However, since the main binding site is located on the SMC coiled coils, the later scenario would likely be an indirect consequence of altered coiled coil configuration, consistent with our current interpretation.

      (3) Sybody expression in vivo

      Have the authors estimated sybody expression in vivo? Are they all expressed to similar levels?

      We have tagged selected sybodies with gfp and performed live cell imaging. This showed that they are all roughly equally expressed and that they localize as foci in the cell presumably by binding to Smc complexes loaded onto the chromosome at ParB/parS sites. We will include this data in the revised version of the manuscript.

      (4) Sybodies should phenocopy ATP hydrolysis mutant of Smc

      The sybodies were screened against an ATP hydrolysis deficient mutant of Smc, with the rationale that these sybodies would interfere this step of the Smc duty cycle. Does the expression of the sybodies in vivo phenocopy the ATP hydrolysis deficient mutant of Smc? Could the authors consider any phenotypic read-outs that can indicate whether the sybody action results in an smc-null effect or specifically an ATP hydrolysis deficient effect?

      As eluded to above, we think that our selection gave rise to sybodies that bind various, possibly multiple Smc conformations. Consistent with this idea, the phenotypes are similar to null mutant rather than the ATP-hydrolysis defective EQ mutant, which display even more severe growth phenotypes. We will add the following notes to the text:

      “These conditions favour ATP-engaged particles alongside the typically predominant ATP-disengaged rod-shaped state (add Vazquez Nunez et al., 2021).”

      “ELISA data confirm that nearly all clones bind Smc-ScpAB; however, their binding shows little or no dependence on the presence of ATP or DNA.”

      Minor comments:

      (1) It was surprising that no sybodies were found that could target both bacillus and spneu Smc. For example, sybodies targeting the head regions of Smc that might work in a more universal manner. Could the authors comment on the coverage of the sybodies across the protein structure?

      It is rather common that sybodies (like antibodies and nanobodies) exhibit strong affinity differences between highly conserved proteins (> 90 % identity). The underlying reasons for such strong discrimination are i) location of less conserved residues primarily at the target protein surface and ii) the large interaction interface between sybody and target which offers multiple vulnerabilities for disturbance, in particular through bulky side chains resulting in steric clashes. Another frequently observed phenomenon is sybody binding to a dominant epitope, which also often applies to nanobodies and antibodies. A great example for this are the dominant epitopes on SARS-CoV-2 RBDs.

      (2) Growth curves (Fig. S3) show a large jump in recovery in growth under sybody induction conditions. Could the authors address this observation here and in the text?

      We suppose that this recovery represents suppressor mutants and/or (more likely) improved growth in the absence of functional Smc during nutrient limitation (see Gruber et al., 2013 and Wang et al., 2013). We will add this statement to the text.

      (3) L41- Sentence correction: Loop can be removed.

      Ah, yes, sorry for this confusing error. Thank you.

      (4) L525 - bsuSmc 'E' :extra E can be removed.

      To do. Thank you.

      (5) References need to be properly formatted.

      To do. Thank you.

      (6) The authors should add in figure legend for Fig 1i) details on representation of the purple region, and explain the grey strokes for orientation of the loop.

      To do.

      (7) How many cells were analysed in the cell biological assays? Legends should include these information.

      To Be Included.

      Reviewer #1 (Significance):

      Overall, this is an impressive study that uses an elegant strategy to find inhibitors of protein activity in vivo. The manuscript is clearly written and the experiments are logical and well-designed. The findings from the study will be significant to the broad field of genome biology, synthetic biology and also SMC biology. Specifically, the coiled coil domain of SMC proteins have been proposed to be of high functional value. The authors have elegantly identified key coiled-coil regions that may be important for function, and parallelly exhibited potential of the use of synthetic sybody/designed binders for inhibition of protein activity.

      Reviewer #2 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

      Review: "Single Domain Antibody Inhibitors Target the Coiled Coil Arms of the Bacillus subtilis SMC complex" by Ophélie Gosselin et al, Review Commons RC-2025-03280 Structural Maintenance of Chromosome proteins (SMCs), a family of proteins found in almost all organisms, are organizers of DNA. They accomplish this by a process known as loop extrusion, wherein double-stranded DNA is actively reeled in and extruded into loops. Although SMCs are known to have several DNA binding regions, the exact mechanism by which they facilitate loop extrusion is not understood but is believed to entail large conformational changes. There are currently several models for loop extrusion, including one wherein the coiled coil (CC) arms open, but there is a lack of insightful experimentation and analysis to confirm any of these models. The work presented aims to provide much-needed new tools to investigate these questions: conformation-selective sybodies (synthetic nanobodies) that are likely to alter the CC opening and closing reactions.

      The authors produced, isolated, and expressed sybodies that specifically bound to Bacillus subtilis Smc-ScpAB. Using chimeric Smc constructs, where the coiled coils were partly replaced with the corresponding sequences from Streptococcus pneumoniae, the authors revealed that the isolated sybodies all targeted the same 4N CC element of the Smc arms. This region is likely disrupted by the sybodies either by stopping the arms from opening (correctly) or forcing them to stay open (enough). Disrupting these functional elements is suggested to cause the Smc-dependent chromosome organization lethal phenotype, implying that arm opening and closing is a key regulatory feature of bacterial Smc-ScpAB.

      In summary, the authors present a new method for trapping bacterial Smc's in certain conformations using synthetic antibodies. Using these antibodies, they have pinpointed the (previously suggested) 4N region of the coiled coils as an essential site for the opening and closing of the Smc coiled coil arms and that hindering these reactions blocks Smc-driven chromosomal organization. The work has important implications for how we might elucidate the mechanism of DNA loop extrusion by SMC complexes.

      Some specific comments:

      Line 75: "likely stabilizing otherwise rare intermediates of the conformational cycle." - sorry, why is that being concluded? Why not stabilizing longer-lived oncformations?

      We will clarify this statement!

      Line 89: Sorry, possibly our lack of understanding: why first ribosome and then phage display?

      Ribosome display offers to screen around 10^12 sybodies per selection round (technically unrestricted library size), while for phage display, the library size is restricted to around 10^9 sybodies due to the fact that production of a phage library requires transformation of the phagemid plasmid into E. coli, thereby introducing a diversity bottleneck. This is why the sybody platform starts off with ribosome display. It switches to phage display from round 2 onwards because the output of the initial round of ribosome display is around 10^6 sybodies, which can be easily transferred into the phage display format. Phage display is used to minimize selection biases. For more information, please consult the original sybody paper (PMID: 29792401).

      Line 100: Why was only lethality selected? Less severe phenotypes not clear enough?

      Yes, colony size is more difficult to score robustly, as the sizes of individual transformant colonies can vary quite widely. The number of isolated sybodies was at the limit of further analysis.

      Line 106: Could it be tested somehow if convex and concave library sybodies fold in Bs?

      We did not focus on the non-functional sybody candidates and only sybodies of the loop library turned out to cause functional consequences at the cellular level. Notably, we will include gfp-imaging showing that non-lethal sybodies are expressed to similar levels that toxic sybodies. Given the identical scaffold of concave and loop sybodies (they only differ in their CDR3 length), we expect that the concave sybodies fold in the cytoplasm of B. subtilis. For the convex sybodies exhibiting a different scaffold, this will be tested.

      Line 125: Could Pxyl be repressed by glucose?

      To our knowledge and experience, repression by glucose (catabolite repression) does not work well in this context in B. subtilis.

      Line 131: The SMC replacement strain is a cool experiment and removes a lot of doubts!

      Thank you! (we agree).

      Line 141: The mapping is good and looks reliable, but looks and feels like a tour de force? Of course, some cryo-EM would have been lovely (lines 228-229 understood, it has been tried!).

      Yes, we have made several attempts at structural biology. Unfortunately, Smc-ScpAB is not well suited for cryo-EM in our hands and crystallography with Smc fragments and sybodies did not yield well-diffracting crystals.

      Line 179: Mmmh. Do we not assume DNA binding on top of the dimerised heads to open the CC (clamp)?

      We will clarify the text here.

      Line 187: Having sybodies that presumably keep the CC together (closing) and some that do not allow them to come together correctly (opening) is really cool and probably important going forward.

      Thank you!

      Figure 1 Ai is not very colour-blind friendly.

      We are sorry for this oversight. We will try to make the color scheme more inclusive. Thank you for the notification.

      Optional: did the authors see any spontaneous mutations emerge that bypass the lethal phenotype of sybody expression?

      No, we did not observe spontaneous mutations suppressing the phenotype, possibly due to the limited number of cell generations observed. We tried to avoid suppressors by limiting growth, but this may indeed be a good future approach for further fine map the binding sites and to obtain insights into the mechanism of inhibition.

      Optional: we think it would be nice to try some biochemical experiment with BMOE/cysteine-crosslinked B. subtilis Smc in the mid-region (4N or next to it) of the Smc coiled coils to try to further strengthen the story. Some of the authors are experts in this technique and strains might already exist?

      We have indeed tried to study the impact of sybody binding on Smc conformation by cysteine cross-linking. However, we were not convinced by the results and thus prefer not to draw any conclusions from them. We will add a corresponding note to the text.

      Reviewer #2 (Significance):

      The authors present a new method for trapping bacterial Smc's in certain conformations using synthetic antibodies. Using these antibodies, they have pinpointed the (previously suggested) 4N region of the coiled coils as an essential site for the opening and closing of the Smc coiled coil arms and that hindering these reactions blocks Smc-driven chromosomal organization. The work has important implications for how we might elucidate the mechanism of DNA loop extrusion by SMC complexes.

      Thank you!

      Reviewer #3 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

      Gosselin et al. use the sybody technology to study effects of in vivo inhibition oft he Bacillus subtilis SMC complex. Smc proteins are central DNA binding elements of several complexes that are vital for chromosome dynamics in almost all organisms. Sybodies are selected from three different libraries of the single domain antibodies, using the „transition state" mutant Smc. They identify 14 such mutant sybodies that are lethal when expressed in vivo, because they prevent proper function of Smc. The authors present evidence suggesting that all obtained sybodies bind to a coiled-coil region close to the Smc „neck", and thereby interfere with the Smc activity cycle, as evidenced by defective ATPase activity when Smc is bound to DNA.

      The study is well done and presented and shows that the strategy is very potent in finding a means to quickly turn off a protein's function in vivo, much quicker than depleting the protein.

      The authors also draw conclusions on the molecular mode of action of the SMC complex. The provide a number of suggestive experiments, but in my view mostly indirect evidence for such mechanism.

      My main criticism ist hat the authors have used a single - and catalytically trapped form of SMC. They speculate why they only obtain sybodies from one library, and then only idenfity sybodies that bind to a rather small part oft he large Smc protein. While the approach is definitely valuable, it is biassed towards sybodies that bind to Smc in a quite special way, it seems. Using wild type Smc would be interesting, to make more robust statements about the action of sybodies potentially binding to different parts of Smc.

      As explained above, we are quite confident the Smc ATPase mutation did not bias the selection in an obvious way. The surprising bias towards coiled coil binding sites has likely other explanations, as they likely form a preferred epitope recognized by sybodies.

      Line 105: Alternatively, the other libraries did not produce good binders or these sybodies were 106 not stably expressed in B. subtilis. This could be tested using Western blotting - I am assuming sybody antibodies are commercially available. However, this test is not important for the overall study, it would just clarify a minor point.

      While there are antibody fragments available to augment the size of sybodies (PMID: 40108246), these recognize 3D-epitopes and are thus not suited for Western blotting. We did not follow up on the negative results much, but would like to point out again that there are several biases that likely emerge for the same reason (bias to library, bias to coiled coil binding site). If correct, then likely few other sybodies are effectively lethal in B. subtilis, with the exception of the ones isolated and characterized. We have added this notion to the manuscript. We have also tested the expression of non-lethal sybodies by gfp-tagging and imaging. These results will be included in the revision.

      Fig. 2B: is is odd to count Spo0J foci per cells, as it is clear from the images that several origins must be present within the fluorescent foci. I am fine with the „counting" method, as the images show there is a clear segregation defect when sybodies are expressed, I believe the authors should state, though, that this is not a replication block, but failure to segregate origins.

      We agree that this is an important point and will add a corresponding comment to the text.

      Testing binding sites of sybodies tot he SMC complex is done in an indirect manner, by using chimeric Smc constructs. I am surprised why the authors have not used in vitro crosslinking: the authors can purify Smc, and mass spectrometry analyses would identify sites where sybodies are crosslinked to Smc. Again, I am fine with the indirect method, but the authors make quite concrete statements on binding based on non-inhibition of chimeric Smc; I can see alternative explanations why a chimera may not be targeted.

      We have made several attempts of testing direct binding with mixed outcomes and decided to not include those results in the light of the stronger and more relevant in vivo mapping. However, we will add ELISA results and briefly discuss grating coupled interferometry (GCI) data and pull-downs.

      Smc-disrupting sybodies affect the ATPase activity in one of two ways. Again, rather indirect experiments. This leads to the point Revealing Smc arm dynamics through synthetic binders in the discussion. The authors are quite careful in stating that their experiments are suggestive for a certain mode of action of Smc, which is warranted.

      In line 245, they state More broadly, the study demonstrates how synthetic binders can trap, stabilize, or block transient conformations of active chromatin-associated machines, providing a powerful means to probe their mechanisms in living cells. This is off course a possible scenario for the use of sybodies, but the study does not really trap Smc in a transient conformation, at least this is not clearly shown.

      We agree and will carefully rephrase this statement. Thank you.

      Overall, it is an interesting study, with a well-presented novel technology, and a limited gain of knowledge on SMC proteins.

      We respectfully disagree with the last point, since our unique results highlight the importance of the Smc coiled coils, which are otherwise largely neglected in the SMC literature, likely (at least in part) due the mild effect of single point mutations on coiled coil dynamics.

      Reviewer #3 (Significance):

      The work describes the gaining and use of single-binder antibodies (sybodies) to interfere with the function of proteins in bacteria. Using this technology for the SMC complex, the authors demonstrate that they can obtain a significant of binders that target a defined region is SMC and thereby interfere with the ATPase cycle.

      The study does not present a strong gain of knowledge of the mode of action of the SMC complex.

      As pointed out above, we respectfully disagree with this assertion.

      Description of analyses that authors prefer not to carry out

      As pointed out above, there are a few minor points that we prefer not to experimentally address. In particular, we do not consider it as necessary to determine the expression levels of sybodies which were non-inhibitory. We also wish to note that we attempted to obtain structural additional biochemical data and to that end performed cryo-EM, crystallography and cysteine cross-linking experiments. Unfortunately, we did not obtain sybody complex structures and the cross-linking data were unfortunately not conclusive.  We also wish to note that the first author has finished her PhD and left the lab, which limits our capacity to add additional experiments. However, as the reviewers also pointed out, the main conclusions are well supported by the data already.

    1. Author Response:

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Tkacik et al describe their efforts to reconstitute and biochemically characterize ARAF, BRAF, and CRAF proteins and measure their ability to be paradoxically activated by current clinical and preclinical RAF inhibitors. Paradoxical activation of MAPK signaling is a major clinical problem plaguing current RAF inhibitors, and the mechanisms are complex and relatively poorly understood. The authors utilize their preparations of purified ARAF, BRAF, and CRAF kinase domains to measure paradoxical activation by type I and type II inhibitors, utilizing MEK protein as the substrate, and show that CRAF is activated in a similar fashion to BRAF, whereas ARAF appears resistant to activation. These data are analyzed using a simple cooperativity model with the goal of testing whether paradoxical activation involves negative cooperativity between RAF dimer binding sites, as has been previously reported. The authors conclude that it does not. They also test activation of B- and CRAF isoforms prepared in their full-length autoinhibited states and show that under the conditions of their assays, activation by inhibitors is not observed. In a particularly noteworthy part of the paper, the authors show that mutation of the N-terminal acidic (NtA) motif of ARAF and CRAF to match that of BRAF enhances paradoxical activation of CRAF and dramatically restores paradoxical activation of ARAF, which is not activated at all in its WT form, indicating a clear role for the NtA motif in the paradoxical activation mechanism. Additional experiments use mass photometry to measure BRAF dimer induction by inhibitors. The mass photometry measurements are a relatively novel way of achieving this, and the results are qualitatively consistent with previous studies that tracked BRAF dimerization in response to inhibitors using other methods. Overall, the paper establishes that WT CRAF is paradoxically activated by the same inhibitors that activate BRAF, and that ARAF contains the latent potential for activation that appears to be controlled by its NtA motif. The biochemical activation data for BRAF are qualitatively consistent with previous work.

      Strengths:

      While previous studies have put forward detailed molecular mechanisms for paradoxical activation of BRAF, comparatively little is known about the degree to which ARAF and CRAF are prone to this problem, and relatively little biochemical data of any sort are available for ARAF. Seen in this light, the current work should be considered of substantial potential significance for the RAF signaling field and for efforts to understand paradoxical activation and design new inhibitors that avoid it.

      Weaknesses:

      There are, unfortunately, some significant flaws in the data analysis and fitting of the RAF activation data that render the primary conclusion of the paper about the detailed activation mechanism, namely that it does not involve negative cooperativity between active sites, unjustified. This claim is made repeatedly throughout the manuscript, including in the title. Unfortunately, their data analysis approach is overly simplistic and does not probe this question thoroughly. This is the primary weakness of the study and should be addressed. A full biochemical modeling approach that accurately captures what is happening in the experiment needs to be applied in order for detailed inferences to be drawn about the mechanism beyond just the observation of activation.

      The authors' analysis of their RAF:MEK "monomer" paradoxical activation data (Figures 1, 3, and Tables 1, 2) suffers from two fundamental flaws that render the resulting AC50/IC50 and cooperativity (Hill) parameters essentially uninterpretable. Without explaining or justifying their choice, the authors use a two-phase cooperative binding model from GraphPad Prism to fit their activation/inhibition data. This model is intended to describe cooperative ligand binding to multiple coupled sites within a preformed receptor assembly, and does not provide an adequate description of what is happening in this complicated experiment. Specifically, it has two fundamental flaws when applied to the analysis in question:

      (a) It does not account for ligand depletion effects that occur with high-affinity drugs, and that profoundly affect the shapes of the dose-response curves, which are what are being fit 

      The chosen model is one of a class of ligand-binding models that are derived by assuming that the free ligand concentration is effectively equal to the total ligand concentration. Under these conditions, binding curves have a characteristic steepness, and the presence of cooperativity can be inferred from changes in this steepness as described by a Hill coefficient. However, many RAF inhibitors, including most of the type II inhibitors in this study, bind to the dimerized forms of at least one of the RAF isoforms with ultra-high affinity in the picomolar range (particularly apparent in Figure 1 with LY inhibiting BRAF). Under these conditions, the model assumption is not valid. Instead, binding occurs in the high-affinity regime in which the drug titrates the receptor and effectively all the added drug molecules bind, so there is hardly any free ligand (see e.g. Jarmoskaite and Herschlag eLife 2020 for a full description of this "titration" regime). The shapes of the curves under these conditions reflect the total amount of RAF protein (and to some extent drug affinity), rather than the presence of cooperativity. Fitting dose response curves with the chosen model under these conditions will result in conflating binding affinity and protein concentration with cooperativity.

      (b) It does not model the RAF monomer-dimer equilibrium, which is dramatically modulated by drug binding, rendering the results RAF-concentration dependent in a manner not accounted for by the analysis.

      The chosen analysis model also fails to consider the monomer-dimer equilibrium of RAF. This has two ramifications. Since drug binding is coupled to dimerization to a very strong degree, the observed apparent affinities of drug binding (reflected in AC50 and IC50 values) are functions of the concentration of RAF molecules used in the experiment. Since dimerization affinities are likely different for ARAF, BRAF, and CRAF, the measured AC50 values also cannot be compared between isoforms. This concentration dependence is not addressed by the authors. A related issue is that the model assumes drug binding occurs to two coupled sites on preformed dimers, not to a mixture of monomers and dimers. "Cooperativity" parameters determined in this manner will reflect the shifting monomer-dimer equilibrium rather than the cooperativity within dimers. Additionally, the inhibition side of the activation/inhibition curves is driven by binding of the drug to the single remaining site on the dimer, not to two coupled sites, and so one cannot determine cooperativity values for this process in this manner.

      As a result of both of these issues, the parameters reported in the tables do not correctly reflect cooperativity and cannot be used to infer the presence or absence of negative cooperativity between RAF dimer subunits. To address these major issues, the authors would need to apply a data analysis/fitting procedure that correctly models the biochemical interactions occurring in the sample, including both the monomer-dimer equilibrium and how this equilibrium is coupled to drug binding, such as that developed in e.g., Kholodenko Cell Reports 2015. Alternatively, the authors should remove the statements claiming a lack of negative cooperativity from the manuscript and alter the title to reflect this.

      The bell-shaped dose response model that we employed models the sum of two dose-response curves – one that activates and one that inhibits. That is a simple way of capturing the essence of paradoxical activation -- the superposition of drug-induced activation at low inhibitor concentrations with inhibition at higher concentrations. That said, we agree completely with the reviewer that the model does not capture the complexity of what is happening in the experiment. We worked extensively with the Kholodenko model (which we implemented in Kintek Explorer), which accounts for the effect of drug on the monomer/dimer equilibrium and for the affinity of drug for each protomer of a dimer (and can therefore model positive or negative cooperativity as well as non-cooperative binding). We could obtain excellent fits with this model with positive cooperativity – perhaps not surprising considering that this is a 12 parameter model – with reasonable Kd values for drug binding and monomer/dimer equilibrium. However, we ultimately chose not to include this analysis when we realized that the fits were not at steady-state. The underlying Kon and Koff rates for the reasonable Kd’s for monomer/dimer formation were unreasonably slow. We could also obtain superficially reasonable fits with negative or non-cooperative binding, but close inspection revealed that they did not accurately fit the steepness of the inhibition phase of the dose-response curves for type II inhibitors. Even the Kholodenko model does not capture all the key aspects of our experiment. Perhaps most notably competition with ATP, the effect of ATP on the monomer dimer equilibrium, and the divergent conformations of the kinase required for binding ATP vs a type II inhibitor. We put some effort into explicitly including ATP in the model, but quickly decided that it was beyond our modeling expertise (and it also was not feasible to implement in Kintek explorer). In the end, we settled on the bell-shaped dose-response model because it was the simplest model that fit the data. We expect to include a supplemental figure/note in the revised manuscript to discuss our work with the Kholodenko model. We will also acknowledge the limitations of the bell-shaped dose response model.

      This reviewer is also concerned that the steepness of the inhibition phase of the curves may be the result of enzyme-titration with these tight-binding inhibitors, rather than a result of positive cooperativity. We are reasonably sure that this is not the case. The shape of these curves and the IC50/AC50 values obtained is relatively insensitive to enzyme concentration, and we will include additional data in our revision to demonstrate this. Also, the steep hill slopes are unique to the type II inhibitors, which require a distinct inactive conformation of the kinase. Type I inhibitor SB590885 is similarly potent to the type II inhibitors, but does not exhibit this effect. If we were simply titrating enzyme, we would expect to see this with SB590885 as well.

      Also, we will clarify in the revised manuscript that our interpretation of positive cooperativity of inhibition by type II inhibitors is also supported by our prior work with 14-3-3-bound RAF dimers (Tkacik et al, JBC 2025). This is a much simpler experiment, as dimers are pre-formed. We have now done a thorough study of the effect of enzyme concentration on the IC<sub>50</sub> and apparent cooperativity in dimer inhibition, which we will include in our revised manuscript. These experiments confirm that we are not in a regime where we are titrating enzyme.

      As an aside, with respect to models that incorporate free inhibitor concentration, we did try to fit our 14-3-3-bound dimer inhibition data (in Tkacik et al, JBC 2025) with the Morrison equation for tight-binding inhibitors, which does take into account free ligand concentration. The fits were not reasonable with type II inhibitors, at least in part due to the non-ATP-competitive behavior of the type II drugs. Also the Morrison equation does not model cooperativity.

      Some other points to consider

      (1) The observation that ARAF is not activated by type II inhibitors is interesting. A detailed comparison of the activation magnitudes between inhibitors and between A-, B-, and CRAF is hampered by the arbitrary baseline signal in the assay, which arises from a non-zero FRET ratio in the absence of any RAF activity. The authors might consider background correcting their data using a calibration curve constructed using MEK samples of known degrees of phosphorylation, so that they can calculate turnover numbers and fold activation values rather than an increase over baseline. This will likely reveal that the activation effects are more substantial than they appear against the high background signal.

      We will explore this for our revision.

      (2) The authors note that full-length autoinhibited 14-3-3-bound RAF monomers are not activated by type I and II inhibitors. However, since this process involves the formation of a RAF dimer from two monomers, the process would also be expected to be concentration dependent, and the authors have only investigated this at a single protein concentration. Since disassembly of the autoinhibited state must also occur before dimerization, it might be expected to be kinetically disfavored as well. Have the authors tested this?

      Good points. We have carried out this experiment at more than one enzyme concentration and differing reaction times, and also failed to see activation. However, we have not systematically explored either variable.

      (3) ATP concentration modulates activation. While this is an interesting observation, some of this analysis suffers from the same issue discussed above, of not considering high-affinity binding effects. For instance, LY is not affected by ATP concentration in their data (Figure 4D), but this is easily explained as being due to its very tight binding affinity, resulting in titration of the receptor and the shape of the inhibition curve reflecting the amount of RAF kinase in the experiment and not the effective Kd or IC50 value.

      As discussed above, we’ve convinced ourselves that we are not simply titrating enzyme. It occurred to us that such an effect could explain both the steepness of the inhibition curves with LY and other type II inhibitors and the apparent ATP-insensitivity. Our studies of concentration-dependence and the correlation of this effect with the type II binding mode argue against this possibility.

      Finally, as an overarching comment to this Reviewer and the others, we understand well that our enzyme inhibition studies (here and in Tkacik 2025) do not rise to the level of a formal demonstration of cooperative ligand binding. We envision a future study in which we could address this directly, perhaps by using single molecule fluorescence to observe on/off rates for binding of fluorescently tagged inhibitors to immobilized RAF dimers. (This is clearly beyond the scope of the present work).

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      This manuscript by Tkacik et al. uses in vitro reconstituted systems to examine paradoxical activation across RAF isoforms and inhibitor classes. The authors conclude that paradoxical activation can be explained without invoking negative allostery and propose a general model in which ATP displacement from an "open monomer" promotes dimerization and activation. The biochemical work is technically sound, and the systematic comparison across RAF paralogs (along with mutational/functional analysis) across inhibitor classes is a strength.

      However, the central mechanistic conclusions are overgeneralized relative to the experimental systems, and several key claims, particularly the dismissal of negative allostery and the proposed unifying model in Figure 6, are not directly supported by the data presented. Most importantly, the absence of RAS, membranes, and relevant regulatory context fundamentally limits the physiological relevance of several conclusions, especially regarding the current clinical type I.5 RAF inhibitors and paradoxical activation.

      Overall, this is a potentially valuable biochemical study, but the manuscript would benefit from more restrained interpretation, clearer framing of scope, and revisions to the model and title to better reflect what is actually tested.

      (1) A central issue is that the biochemical system lacks RAS, membranes, 14-3-3 and endogenous regulatory factors that are known to be required for paradoxical RAF and MAPK activation in cells. As previous work has repeatedly shown and the authors also acknowledge, paradoxical activation by RAF inhibitors is RAS-dependent in cells, and this dependence presumably explains why full-length autoinhibited RAF complexes are refractory to activation in the authors' assays.

      Importantly, the absence of paradoxical activation by type I.5 inhibitors in this system is therefore not mechanistically informative. Type I.5 inhibitors (e.g., vemurafenib, dabrafenib, encorafenib), but not Paradox Breakers (e.g., plixorafenib), robustly induce paradoxical activation in cells because binding of the inhibitor to inactive cytosolic RAF monomer promotes a conformational change that drives RAF recruitment to RAS in the membrane, promoting dimerization. The inability of the type 1.5 inhibitor to suppress the newly formed dimers is the basis of the pronounced paradoxical activation in cells. In the absence of RAS and membrane recruitment, failure to observe paradoxical activation in vitro does not distinguish between competing mechanistic models.

      As a result, conclusions regarding inhibitor class differences, and especially the generality of the proposed model, should be substantially tempered.

      We will emphasize the limitations of our highly simplified experimental system in the revised manuscript, and temper some of our interpretations. And while the lack of membranes/RAS/14-3-3 in our system and the lack of observed PA with type I.5 inhibitors is a limitation of our study, we disagree that it renders our study of type I.5 inhibitors mechanistically uninformative. As seen here and consistent with prior studies, the binding mode of these compounds disfavors formation of the kinase dimer. While this may be overcome by 14-3-3 binding and other effects in the cellular context, it reflects a fundamental mechanistic difference as compared with type I and type II inhibitors, which also exhibit paradoxical activation.

      (2) The authors argue that their data argue against negative allostery as a central feature of paradoxical activation. However, the presented data do not directly test negative allostery, nor do they exclude it. The biochemical assays do not recreate the cellular context in which negative allostery has been inferred. Further, structural data showing asymmetric inhibitor occupancy in RAF dimers cannot be dismissed on the basis of alternative symmetric structures alone, particularly given the dynamic nature of RAF dimers in cells.

      Most importantly, negative allostery was proposed to explain paradoxical activation by Type I.5 RAF inhibitors, yet these inhibitors do not paradoxically activate in the assays presented here. The absence of paradoxical activation in this system, therefore, cannot be used to argue against a mechanism that is specifically invoked to explain cellular behavior not recapitulated by the assay.

      To be clear, we are not dismissing the possibility of negative cooperativity. And we do not think of our model as an alternative to the negative cooperativity model – rather it is a generalization that can account for paradoxical activation by diverse inhibitor classes, irrespective of positive, negative or non-cooperative modes of inhibition. We will emphasize these points in the revised manuscript.

      If negative allostery were a requisite feature of PA, we would not expect to see PA with type II inhibitors. As discussed in our response to Reviewer 1, we see clear evidence of positively cooperative inhibition of 14-3-3-bound RAF dimers by type II inhibitors (Tkacik JBC 2025) and in the present study, we find clear paradoxical activation by type II inhibitors (and there are many reports in the literature of PA by type II inhibitors in cellular contexts).

      (3) The model presented in Figure 6 is conceptually possible but remains speculative. Key elements of the model, including RAS engagement, membrane recruitment, 14-3-3 rearrangements, and the involvement of cellular kinases and phosphatases, are explicitly absent from the experimental system. Accordingly, the model is not tested by the data presented and should not be framed as a validated or general mechanism. The figure and accompanying text should be clearly labeled as a working or conceptual model rather than a mechanistically supported conclusion.

      We will revise the text to more clearly reflect that this is a working model, and importantly, that it is based on a large literature in this area in addition to the relevant experimental work in this manuscript.

      (4) The manuscript states that type I.5 inhibitors do not induce paradoxical activation in the biochemical assay because their C-helix-out binding mode disfavors dimerization. While this is true in isolation, it overlooks the well-established fact that type I.5 inhibitors (with the exception of paradox breakers) clearly promote RAS-dependent RAF dimerization in cells. This distinction is critical and should be explicitly acknowledged when interpreting the in vitro findings.

      We will explicitly make this point in the revised manuscript.

      (5) The title suggests a general mechanism for paradoxical activation across RAF isoforms and inhibitor classes, whereas the data primarily address type I and type II inhibitors acting on isolated kinase-domain monomers. A more accurate framing would avoid the term "general" and confine the conclusions to C-helix-in (type I/II) RAF inhibitors in a reduced biochemical context.

      As noted above, and in our response to Reviewer 3 below, we will clarify the contribution of data in present manuscript to the model and that it is based more broadly on the literature on PA and our insights into RAF structure and regulation. We will also revise the title to avoid the implication that the model arises mainly from the experimental data in the manuscript.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Tkacik et al. systematically characterized all three RAF kinase isoforms in vitro with all three types of RAF inhibitors (Type I, I1/2, and II) to investigate the mechanism underlying paradoxical activation.

      In this study, the authors reconstituted heterodimers of A-, B-, and C-RAF kinase domains bound to non-phosphorylable MEK1 (SASA), mimicking the monomeric auto-inhibited state of RAF. These "RAF monomers" were tested for MEK phosphorylation with an increasing concentration of all three types of RAF inhibitors (Type I, I1/2, and II). This study is reminiscent of a previous study of the same team measuring RAF kinase activity in the presence of all three types of inhibitors in the context of dimeric RAF isoforms stabilized by 14-3-3 proteins (Tkacik et al 2025 JBC). RAF monomers had little to no activity at low concentrations of inhibitors (consistent with their "monomeric state"). Addition of type I1/2 inhibitor did not induce paradoxical activation as, in this context, they do not induce RAF dimerization required for activation, as observed by MP. Addition of type I and type II inhibitors led to paradoxical activation consistent with the RAF dimerization induced by these inhibitors, as observed by MP. Interestingly, type II inhibitors induced activation only for B- and C-RAF and not A-RAF.

      At high concentrations of type II inhibitors, kinase activity is inhibited with a strong or weak positive cooperativity for BRAF and CRAF, respectively. This observation is very similar to what the authors previously observed with their dimeric RAF system. Interestingly, when the NtA motif is modified by phosphomimetic mutations in A- and C-Raf, basal kinase activity is stronger, but most importantly, inhibitor-induced paradoxical activation is much stronger with both type I and II inhibitors. This demonstrates that mutation of the NtA motif of ARAF and CRAF sensitized them to paradoxical activation by type II inhibitors.

      The authors also tested the effect of ATP in the paradoxical activation observed in their RAF "monomer" system. As previously published in their assay with 14-3-3 stabilized dimeric RAF, the authors observed an expected shift of the IC50 with Type I inhibitors, while Type II inhibitors seem to behave as a non-competitive inhibitor. The authors next reconstituted the MAP kinase pathway (with RAF monomers at the top of the phosphorylation cascade) to test paradoxical activation amplification. Again, Type I1/2 inhibitors did not induce paradoxical activation, while Type I and II inhibitors did. The authors tested the inhibitors with FL auto-inhibited RAF/MEK/14-3-3 complexes, where, contrary to the "RAF monomers" experiments, FL B- and C-RAF were not paradoxically activated but were inhibited by all three types of inhibitors.

      Overall, Tkacik et al. tackle an important question in the field for which definitive experiments and thorough biochemical investigation to understand the molecular mechanisms for the inhibitor-induced paradoxical activation are still missing, and of high importance for future drug development.

      Strengths:

      The biochemical experiments here are rigorously executed, and the results obtained are highly informative in the field to decipher the intricate mechanisms of RAF activation and inhibitor-induced paradoxical activation.

      Weaknesses:

      The interpretation of the results in the context of the current state of the art is ambiguous and raises questions about the relevance of introducing a new model for inhibitor-induced paradoxical activation, particularly since the findings presented here do not clearly contradict established paradigms. I believe some clarification and precision are required.

      While our model does not conflict with established paradigms (because it can allow for negative cooperativity) our experimental findings (here and in Tkacik et al JBC 2025) are in conflict with the negative allostery model. We will work to clarify this in the revised manuscript.

      Main comments:

      (1) Figure 2:

      The authors comment on the expected greater increase (for a cascade assay) in the magnitude of ERK phosphorylation compared to what was observed for MEK phosphorylation. However, this observation might be reflective of the stoichiometries used in the assay, with 40 times more MEK compared to RAF concentration (250nm vs 6nM), which might favour pERK vs pMEK.

      The authors should clarify their rationale for the protein concentration used in this assay and explain how protein stoichiometry was taken into account for the interpretation of their results.

      The Reviewer makes a good point, the concentrations and ratios chosen are expected to make a substantial difference in observed amplification. We intended this experiment more as a qualitative demonstration of cascade amplification and will clarify this in the revised manuscript.

      In addition, the authors should justify comparing pMEK and pERK TR-FRET values when different anti-phospho antibodies were used. Antibodies may have distinct binding affinities for their epitopes. Could this not lead to differences in FRET signal amplitudes that complicate direct comparison?

      Also a good point, we will note this limitation in the revised manuscript.

      (2) Supplementary Figure 2:

      The author mentioned that the inhibitors did not activate the FL auto-inhibited RAF complexes; however, they did inhibit the TR-FRET signal.

      Can the authors comment on the origin of the observed basal activity? Would the authors expect self-release of the RAF kinase protein from the auto-inhibited state in the absence of RAS, leading to dimerization and activation? Alternatively, do the inhibitors at low-concentration relieve the auto-inhibited state, thereby driving dimerization and activation?

      We think that the baseline activity that is being inhibited is due to low concentrations of active dimer in our autoinhibited state preparations.

      Did the author test the addition of RAS protein in their in vitro system to determine whether "soluble" RAS is sufficient to release the protective interactions with RBD/CRD/14-3-3 and lead to inhibitor-induced paradoxical activation of FL RAF?

      We did not, but we’ve thought about it. We expect that soluble RAS would not be activating. We have previously carried our extensive studies of BRAF activation by soluble vs. farnesylated RAS in a membrane environment (liposomes) and observed partial activation in the latter (Park et al, Nature Communications 2023).

      (3) Figure 5B:

      The authors said that the Kd values obtained from their MP assay are consistent with prior studies of RAF homodimerization and RAF:MEK heterodimerization. While this is true from the previous studies of RAF:MEK interaction by BLI (performed from the same team), the Kd of isolated RAF kinase homodimerization has been measured around ~30µM by AUC in the cited ref (24,27 & 37).

      The authors should discuss the discrepancy between their Kd of homodimerization and the reported Kd values in the literature. At the concentration used for MP, it is surprising to observe RAF dimerization while the Kd of homodimerization has been measured at ~30µM (in the absence of MEK).

      We will cite/discuss these differences in our revised manuscript.

      Would the authors expect the presence of MEK to influence the homodimerization affinity for the isolated KD?

      Perhaps, but likely only modestly. We do not think this explains the discrepancy noted above.

      (4) Conclusions:

      Several times in the introduction and the conclusion, the authors suggest that the negative allostery model (where "inhibitor binding to one protomer of the dimer promotes an active but inhibitor-resistant conformation in the other") is a model that applies to all types of RAF inhibitors (I, I1/2, and II).

      However, from my understanding and all the references cited by the authors, this model only applies to type I1/2 inhibitors, where indeed the aC IN conformation in the second (inhibitor-free) protomer of the RAF dimer might be incompatible with the type I1/2 inhibitors inducing aC OUT conformation. The type I and type II inhibitors are aC IN inhibitors and are expected to bind both protomers from RAF dimers with similar affinities. Therefore, the negative allostery model does not apply to the type I and type II inhibitors. The difference in the mechanism of action of inhibitors is even used to explain the difference in the concentration range in which inhibitor-induced activation is observed in cells. The description of the state of the art in this study is confusing and does not help to properly understand their argumentation to revise the established model for paradoxical RAF activation.

      We will work to clarify these complicated issues in the revised manuscript. While the reviewer is correct that the negative allostery model was developed in the context of Type 1.5 inhibitors, there are many examples in the literature of it being used to explain PA by type I and type II inhibitors as well.

      Can the authors clarify their analysis of the state of the art on the different mechanisms of action for the paradoxical activation of RAF by the different types of RAF inhibitors?

      We’ll try!

      5) Conclusions:

      "Our results suggest that negative allostery (or negative cooperativity) is not a requisite feature of paradoxical activation. The type I and type II inhibitors studied here induce RAF dimers and exhibit paradoxical activation but do so without evidence of negative cooperativity, nor do they appear to inhibit intentionally engineered RAF dimers with negative cooperativity (25). Indeed, type II inhibitors exhibit apparent positive cooperativity while type I inhibitors are non-cooperative inhibitors of RAF dimers (25)."

      Can the authors explain how results on the paradoxical activation induced by type I and type II inhibitors inform or challenge a model that specifically applies to type I1/2 inhibitors?

      As noted above, the negative allostery model has also been widely applied irrespective of inhibitor type (rightly or wrongly). Essentially any review or discussion of the topic will explain in one way or another how inhibitor binding to one side of a dimer leaves the opposite side active but resistant to inhibitor. Our model is agnostic with respect to cooperativity of inhibition – essentially we are pointing out a simple circumstance that seems to have been lost in the focus on negative allostery. Paradoxical activation is a result of drug action on RAF monomers, while inhibition is a result of drug action on RAF dimers. Because these are distinct molecular species/complexes, they can be expected to differ in their affinity for RAF inhibitors, irrespective of type. Because binding of ATP in the active site of RAF monomers stabilizes the inactive monomeric state, displacing ATP can promote activation/dimerization. For any inhibitor that is more potent at displacing ATP from a monomer that from an active dimer, we could expect to observe a window of paradoxical activation.

      The authors often refer to their previous study (reference 25), where they tested the inhibition of all three types of inhibitors with engineered RAF dimers. While I agree with the authors that in reference 25 the Type I and type II inhibitors inhibit RAF dimers without exhibiting negative cooperativity (as expected from the literature and the current model), the authors did observe some negative cooperativity for Type I1/2 inhibitors in their study most particularly for the type I1/2 PB (with hill slope ranging from -0.4 to -0.9, indicative of negative cooperativity).

      Correct! Although we do note the caveat that weak inhibition can also give rise to apparent negative cooperativity.

      While the observations that type II inhibitors display positive cooperativity is both novel and very interesting, from what I understand the results from thakick et al 2025 and the current study appear more in line with the current paradigm in the field (which describe paradoxical activation with negative cooperativity for type I1/2 inhibitors and no negative cooperativity for the Type I and II inhibitors) rather than disapproving of the current model and supporting for a new model. 

      In this context, can the authors clarify how their results challenge the current model for paradoxical activation?

      While the difference in binding modes and structural effects of type I.5 vs type I and type II inhibitors are well known in the field, we do not know of any work that suggests paradoxical activation arises from anything other than negative allostery. As one example to the contrary, Rasmussen et al. observe allosteric coupling asymmetry in binding of type II inhibitors to BRAF and attribute the observed paradoxical activation to “induction of dimers with one inhibited and one catalytically active subunit” (Rasmussen et al., Elife 2024). They also studied type I inhibitors in this work, but did not observe paradoxical activation.

      (6) Conclusions:

      The authors describe the JAB34 experiment from Poulikakos et al. 2010 to conclude that "While this experiment cleanly demonstrates inhibitor-induced transactivation of RAF dimers, it is important to recognize that the differential inhibitor sensitivity of the two subunits in this experiment is artificial - it is engineered rather than induced by inhibitor binding as the negative allostery model proposes."

      Indeed, the JAB34 experiment demonstrated the inhibitor-induced transactivation, but the Poulikakos et al. 2010 study does not discuss differential inhibitor sensitivity. The negative allostery model was proposed later by poulikakos team in other papers (Yao et al 2015 and Karoulia et al, 2016), in which JAB34 was not used.

      Can the authors clarify how the JAB34 experiments question differential inhibitor sensitivity?

      Good point, we neglected to discuss the Yao and Karoulia papers and will do so in our revised manuscript.

      (7) Conclusions:

      "Considering that the conformation required for binding of type I.5 inhibitors destabilizes RAF dimers, it is unclear how an inhibitor binding to one protomer would be able to transmit an allosteric change to the opposite protomer, if that inhibitor's binding causes the existing dimer to dissociate."

      The authors should comment on whether 14-3-3 proteins might overcome negative regulation by type I1/2 inhibitors, similar to what has been shown for ATP, which acts as a dimer breaker like type I1/2 inhibitors.

      Certainly we expect that they will, and we will discuss this in our revised manuscript.

      (8) Conclusions:

      "Furthermore, the complex effects of type I.5 inhibitors on dimer stability and the clear resistance of active RAF dimers to these inhibitors complicates interpretation of inhibition data - weak or incomplete inhibition of an enzyme can be difficult to discern from true negative cooperativity (43). As we discuss below, the clear resistance of RAF dimers to type I.5 inhibitors is alone sufficient to explain their ineffective inhibition during paradoxical activation, without invoking negative allostery." 

      The authors should explain how they reconcile this statement and their proposal of a new model that does not rely on negative allostery with their previous findings showing negative cooperativity for RAF dimer inhibition with type I1/2 inhibitors.

      As discussed above and in responses to other Reviewers, we do not exclude negative cooperativity for Type I.5 inhibitors. That said, we are skeptical, even in light of our own findings of apparent negative cooperativity by type 1.5 compounds, due in part to the caveats the reviewer highlights above.

      (9) Conclusions:

      Here, the authors propose a new universal model to explain paradoxical activation of RAF by all types of RAF inhibitors:

      " Our findings here, in light of structural studies of RAF complexes and prior cellular investigations of paradoxical activation, lead us to a model for paradoxical activation that does not rely on negative allostery and is consistent with activation by diverse inhibitor classes. In this model, the open monomer complex is the target of inhibitor-induced paradoxical activation (Figure 6). Binding of ATP to the RAF active site stabilizes the inactive conformation of the open monomer, which disfavors dimerization. Displacement of ATP by an ATP-competitive inhibitor, irrespective of class, alters the relative N- and C-lobe orientations of the kinase to promote dimerization (30, 35). Once dimerized, inhibitor dissociation from one or both sides of the dimer would allow phosphorylation and activation of MEK."

      From my understanding, the novelty of this new model is twofold: a) the open monomer is the target of the inhibitor-induced paradoxical activation and b) once dimerized, inhibitor dissociation from one or both sides of the dimer would allow phosphorylation and activation of MEK.

      Novelty a) implies, as the authors stated, that "Inhibitor-induced activation and inhibition act on distinct species - activation on the open monomer and inhibition on the 14-3-3-stabilized dimer". The authors should explain what they mean by "activation of the open monomer", while only RAF dimers are catalytically active (except for BRAF V600E mutant)?

      We will clarify – by activation we mean promoting conversion of the open monomer to a dimer.

      For novelty b), the authors should explain more clearly what experimental results support this new model.

      We will more explicitly detail how our results here as well as prior work in the field support this model.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Interestingly, the observed rearrangements induced by Zn<sup>2+</sup> were not limited to the protein region proximal to the extracellular binding site but extended to the intracellular side of the channel. This finding agrees with previous studies showing that some extracellular H<sub>v</sub>1 inhibitors, such as Zn<sup>2+</sup> or AGAP/W38F, can cause long-range structural changes propagating to the intracellular vestibule of the channel (De La Rosa et al. J. Gen. Physiol. 2018, and Tang et al. Brit J. Pharm 2020). The authors should consider adding these references.

      We added the suggested references to the Results section.

      Since one of the main goals of this work was to validate Acd incorporation and the spectral FRET analysis approach to detect conformational changes in hHv1 in preparation for future studies, the authors should consider removing one subunit from their dimer model, recalculating FRET efficiencies for the monomer, and comparing the predicted values to the experimental FRET data. This comparison could support the idea that the reported FRET measurements can inform not only on intrasubunit structural features but also on subunit organization.

      We calculated the predicted intrasubunit FRET efficiency and presented the results in the new Figure S10. Pearson’s coefficient decreased from 0.48 for the dimer to 0.18 for the monomer, suggesting the experimental FRET contains information about subunit organization. This was added to the text.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      (1) Tryptophan and tyrosine exhibit similar quantum yields, but their extinction coefficients differ substantially. Is this difference accounted for in your FRET analysis? Please clarify whether this would result in a stronger weighting of tryptophan compared to tyrosine.

      We accounted for differences in the extinction coefficients of Trp and Tyr in our calculations, which are detailed in the Supplementary Text. The assumptions result in a stronger contribution from Trp than from Tyr.

      (2) Is the fluorescence of acridon-2-ylalanine (Acd) pH-dependent? If so, could local pH variations within the channel environment influence the probe's photophysical properties and affect the measurements?

      The acridone fluorescence, which is the fluorophore in Acd, is not pH-dependent between pH 2 and 9 (Stephen G.S. and Sturgeon R.J. Analytica Chimica Acta. 1977). This was added to the text.

      (3) Several constructs (e.g., K125Tag, Y134Tag, I217Tag, and Q233Tag) display two bands on SDS-PAGE rather than a single band. Could this indicate incomplete translation or premature termination at the introduced tag site? Please clarify.

      Yes, the additional bands in the WB are due to the termination of translation for the mentioned protein constructs. We added a note in the legend of Figure 2 regarding this point.

      (4) In Figure 5F, the comparison between predicted FRET values and experimentally determined ratio values appears largely uninformative. The discussion on page 9 suggests either an inaccurate structural model or insufficient quantification of protein dynamics. If the underlying cause cannot be distinguished, how do the authors propose to improve the structural model of hHv1 or better describe its conformational dynamics?

      We understand the confusion about this point. We are not planning to improve the structural model with FRET between Trp/Tyr and Acd. We modified the text to avoid confusion regarding this point. We plan to use Acd as a transition metal ion FRET (tmFRET) donor to study the conformational dynamics of hH<sub>v</sub>1 in the future (Discussion). 

      (5) Cu<sup>2+</sup>, Ru<sup>2+</sup>, and Ni<sup>2+</sup> are presented as suitable FRET acceptors for Acd. Would Zn<sup>2+</sup> also be expected to function as an acceptor in this context? If so, could structural information be derived from zinc binding independently of Trp/Tyr?

      Transition metal ion FRET (tmFRET) uses a fluorophore as the donor and a transition metal ion chelator as the acceptor. For FRET to occur between these donor-acceptor pairs, the fluorescence spectrum of the donor must overlap the absorption spectrum of the metal ion (Zagotta et al., eLife. 2021; Zagotta et al., Biophys J. 2024; Gordon et al., Biophys J. 2024). Zn<sup>2+</sup> does not absorb visible light, so tmFRET cannot occur for this divalent metal.

      (6) The investigated structure is most likely dimeric. Previous studies report that zinc stabilizes interactions between hHv1 monomers more strongly than in the native dimeric state. Could this provide an explanation for the observed zinc-dependent effects? Additionally, do the detergent micelles used in this study predominantly contain monomers or dimers?

      Our full-length hH<sub>v</sub>1 in Anz3-12 detergent micelles is predominantly a dimer, as demonstrated in the new panel of Figure S5. From our data, we cannot compare the effects of zinc between monomers and dimers.

      (7) hHv1 normally inserts into a phospholipid bilayer, as used in the reconstitution experiments. In contrast, detergent micelles may form monolayers rather than bilayers. Could the authors clarify the nature of the micelles used and discuss whether the protein is expected to adopt the same fold in a monolayer environment as in a bilayer?

      We used Anzergent 3-12 detergent micelles, which stabilize hH<sub>v</sub>1 in solution. We indicated this in the Results and Materials and Methods sections. We are also intrigued by whether protein folding and conformational dynamics differ between detergent micelles and proteoliposomes, but our data do not provide an answer to this question. We found that the proteoliposomes used for measuring the hH<sub>v</sub>1 function don’t have enough Acd signals to record their spectra, preventing us from performing the same FRET measurements between Trp/Tyr and Acd in liposomes. Still, detergent-solubilized hH<sub>v</sub>1 is functional upon reconstitution, demonstrating that its functional folding is not irreversibly altered in micelles.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) On page 9, the reference to Figure S11 should be corrected to Figure S10.

      We thank the reviewer for catching this mistake. It was corrected in the updated version.

      (2) On page 9, multiple prior studies describing zinc binding to hHv1 should be acknowledged, for example:

      Musset et al. (2010), J. Physiol., 588, 1435-1449;

      Jardin et al. (2020), Biophys. J., 118, 1221-1233.

      References were added to the text.

      (3) On page 11, the statement "with Acd incorporated ... we can interrogate its gating mechanism in unprecedented detail" appears overly strong relative to the data presented. Another phrasing might be appropriate.

      The sentence was changed. It now reads: “With Acd incorporated at multiple sites in full-length hH<sub>v</sub>1, it will be possible to interrogate conformational changes across the protein’s different structural domains using Acd as a tmFRET donor to understand its molecular mechanisms.”

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

      While the authors have proved their hypothesis by temporally increasing the activity of cholinergic neurons at different life stages through the auxin-inducible degron system, their work raises two major concerns. First, they might want to discuss the conflicting data from Zullo et al (Nature 2019, vol 574, pp 359-364). For example, the authors show that increasing the activity of acr-2-expressing neurons after the 7th day of adulthood increases lifespan. However, Zullo et al (2019) show that the reciprocal experiment, inhibiting cholinergic neuron activity on the 1st day or the 8th day of adulthood, also increases lifespan. Is this because the two studies are using different promoters, that of the acr-2 ACh receptor (this work) versus that of the unc-17 vesicular ACh transporter (Zullo et al., 2019)? The two genes are expressed in different subsets of cells that do not completely overlap. CeNGEN shows that acr-2 is expressed in motor and non-motor neurons, but some of these neurons are also different from those that express unc-17. Is it possible that different cholinergic neurons also have opposite lifespan effects during adulthood? Or is it because both lack of signaling and hypersignaling can lead to a long-life phenotype? Leinwand et al (eLife 2015, vol 4, e10181) previously suggested that disturbing the balance in neurotransmission alone can extend lifespan. A simple discussion of these possibilities in the Discussion section is likely sufficient. Or can the auxin treatment and removal be confounding factors? Loose and Ghazi (Biol Open 2021, vol 10, bio058703) show that auxin IAA alone can affect lifespan and that this effect can depend on the time the animal is exposed to the auxin.

      We thank the reviewer for the thoughtful comments and valuable suggestions. In response, we have expanded the Discussion section to address the points raised, as detailed below.

      We fully agree with the reviewer that the different results between our study (activating acr-2-expressing neurons) and Zullo et al. (inhibiting unc-17- expressing neurons) are most likely due to the distinct cholinergic neurons targeted. Our new preliminary data further support this neuron-specific model, as inhibition of acetylcholine synthesis at mid-late life stages produces opposing lifespan effects in different cholinergic neurons. At the same time, we cannot rule out the alternative possibility raised by the reviewer (eLife, 2015) that both activation and inhibition of neuronal activity may extend lifespan by similarly disrupting the balance of neurotransmission. This hypothesis requires further experimental validation in the context of cholinergic motor neurons. Regarding the potential technical concern related to auxin exposure (Biol Open, 2021), our control experiments using 0.5 mM auxin did not show non-specific lifespan effects.

      Accordingly, in the revised manuscript, we have discussed the first two possibilities in the Discussion by stating (page 17-18): “Nevertheless, it is still unclear whether other neuronal populations share similar temporal regulatory mechanisms. A previous study reported that inhibiting cholinergic neurons activity (using unc-17 promoter) extends lifespan regardless of timing[2], which is different from the temporal lifespan regulation we observed in cholinergic motor neurons (using acr-2 promoter). This discrepancy is likely due to differences in subsets of neurons, as the unc-17 promoter labels a broad repertoire of cholinergic neurons, while the acr-2 promoter mainly marks cholinergic motor neurons[53]. Thus, the distinct lifespan-modulating effects of cholinergic motor neurons may be overshadowed by opposing contributions from other cholinergic subtypes when a mixed population is manipulated. Alternatively, both activation and inhibition of cholinergic activity may perturb neurotransmission balance, leading to similar effects on lifespan[54]. It will be interesting to test these hypotheses in future studies.”

      Second, the daf-16-dependence of the early longevity-inhibiting effect of ACh signaling needs clarification and further experimentation. The authors present a model in Figure 6D, where DAF-16 inhibits longevity. This contradicts published literature. Libina et al (Cell 2003, vol 115, pp 489-502) have shown that intestinal DAF-16 increases lifespan. From the authors' data, it is possible that ACh signaling inhibits DAF-16, not promotes it as they have drawn in Figure 6D.

      We thank the reviewer for this important point. We agree that intestinal DAF-16 promotes longevity. Our original model Figure 6D aimed to show that the larval pathway shortens lifespan by inhibiting DAF-16, not that DAF-16 itself shortens lifespan. The arrowhead style used in the original Fiugure 6D might have given an impression that DAF-16 shortens lifespan. Our apologies. We have now fixed this error in Figure 6D. In addition, as suggested, we have performed additional daf-16 experiments (see below).

      In Figure 3F, the authors used Pacr-2::TeTx, which inhibits cholinergic neuron activity, to show an increase in the expression of DAF-16 targets. Why did the authors not use the worms that express the transgene Pacr-2::syntaxin(T254I), which increases cholinergic neuron activity? What happens to the expression of DAF-16 targets in these animals? Do their expression go down? What happens if intestinal daf-16 is knocked down in animals with increased cholinergic neuron activity, instead of reduced cholinergic neuron activity?”

      Thanks for these insightful questions. In Figure 3F-H, we used TeTx instead of syntaxin(T254I) to investigate the function of DAF-16 in the early stage pathway based on the two main reasons. First, Pacr-2::TeTx transgene extends lifespan in early life by inhibiting cholinergic activity, which provides a genetic background complementary to that of syntaxin(T254I) for characterizing the role of DAF-16. Second, TeTx pathway is expected to activate DAF-16 and upregulate its target genes. This approach is more sensitive than measuring gene downregulation in Pacr-2::syntaxin(T254I) transgenic worms.

      We fully agree with the reviewer that performing the corresponding experiments in the syntaxin(T254I) background would strengthen the overall evidence. As suggested, we have now examined the expression of DAF-16 target genes in Pacr-2::syntaxin(T254I) transgenic worms, and performed intestine-specific RNAi of daf-16 in the same background. We found that these worms exhibit downregulation of DAF-16 target genes. Furthermore, intestinal daf-16 knockdown did not further shorten the already reduced lifespan of these transgenic worms. Together, these results from both the TeTx and syntaxin(T254I) lines confirms that cholinergic motor neurons require DAF-16 in the intestine to regulate lifespan. These new data has now been described in Figure S5A-5D (page 11-12): “As expected, the expression level of sod-3 and mtl-1, two commonly characterized DAF-16 target genes, was upregulated in transgenic worms deficient in releasing ACh from cholinergic motor neurons (Figure 3F), and downregulated in transgenic worms with enhanced ACh release from cholinergic motor neurons (Figure S5A), consistent with the notion that DAF-16 acts downstream of cholinergic motor neurons.”, and “RNAi of daf-16 in the intestine abolished the ability of cholinergic motor neurons to regulate lifespan at early life stage (Figure 3G, 3H and Figure S5C-S5E).”

      Recommendations for The Authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for The Authors):

      (1) “The Methods section needs to be clarified/expanded.”

      (a) “For example, are the authors using indole-3-acetic acid or a synthetic auxin? How long does it take for syntaxin to be made after the removal of the auxin?”

      We have now included auxin information and recovery time in the Method for auxin treatment by stating (page 24): “natural auxin indole-3-acetic acid (G&K Scientific)”, and “Expression of syntaxin(T254I) can be suppressed by auxin treatment and restored in 24 hours following auxin removal.”

      (b) “How much FUDR was used in some of the lifespan assays?”

      2 μg/mL FUDR was used in some of the lifespan assays. We have now included the concentration in the Method for lifespan assay by stating (page 23 line 526): “2 μg/mL 5-Fluoro-2’-deoxyuridine (FUDR) was included in assays involving TeTx transgene worms, unc-31 and unc-17 mutant worms, which show a defect in egg laying.”

      (c) “In line 494 of the Methods section, worms were anesthetized with 50 mM sodium azide. That concentration seems a bit high.”

      It is an error indeed. We used 5 mM NaN3. This has now been fixed in the text and in line 548.

      (d) “What are the concentrations of the transgenes used in the extrachromosomal arrays?”

      We have now included the concentrations in the Method for strains and genetics by stating (line 507-509 on page 22): “Microinjections were performed using standard protocols. Each plasmid DNA listed above in the transgenic line was injected at a concentration of 50 ng/μL. Each marker for RNAi was co-injected at a concentration of 25 ng/μL.”

      (2) “Gene expression can vary in different parts of the worm intestine. Do the measurements in Figure 6C represent the entire intestine or only certain parts of the intestine?”

      We have now included the intestine area used for quantification in the Method for microscopy by stating (page 24): “and the entire intestine area was selected by ImageJ”, and in the legends of Figure 6C by stating (page 36): “The entire intestinal area was selected for measurement.”

      (3) “In Figure S1C, does tph-1 have a slight effect? Might serotonin partly counteract the effects of ACh?”

      We thank the reviewer for raising this interesting point regarding the potential role of serotonin. We have re-examined our data in Figure S2C (the original Figure S1C) and agree that loss of tph-1 partly counteracted the lifespan-shortening effect of Pacr-2::syntaxin(T254I) transgene in early life stage, thought the whole-life suppression effect is slight. To assess whether the acr-2 promoter-driven manipulation might directly affect serotonergic neurons, we checked the CeNGen. We found that the transcript expression of acr-2 can be detected in serotonergic neurons (ADF, HSN, and NSM), but the levels are extremely low. In this regard, it is unlikely that the Pacr-2::syntaxin(T254I) transgene exerts its primary effect by substantially altering serotonin release. While a potential indirect interaction between cholinergic and serotonergic signaling in lifespan regulation remains, it falls beyond the primary focus of the current study. We would like to follow up this in future studies. We have now pointed this out in the text by stating (page 9):“As a control, we also tested mutants deficient in other types of small neurotransmitters, including glutamate (eat-4), GABA (unc-25), serotonin (tph-1), dopamine (cat-2), tyramine (tdc-1), and octopamine (tbh-1), but detected no effect, with the exception of tph-1, which showed a modest, partial suppression of the phenotype (Figure S2A-S2F). This observation suggests that the lifespan effects of cholinergic signaling can be modulated by serotonin.”

      (4) “Where else is GAR-2 expressed? Might there be redundancies between neuronal and intestinal GAR-2?”

      We appreciate this insightful question. Based on available single-cell gene expression atlases of C. elegans at both embryonic and adult stages[1,2], gar-2 expression has been detected not only in neurons and the intestine, but also in additional tissues such as the muscle. Regarding the observed lack of effects upon neuronal or intestinal gar-2 RNAi on the ability of cholinergic motor neurons to extend lifespan in mid-late life, and also suggested by another reviewer, we performed muscle-specific RNAi experiments. Together with our previously presented data, the results show that intestinal (but not neuronal or muscle) RNAi of gar-3 abolished the ability of cholinergic motor neurons to extend lifespan at mid-late life stages, while muscle-specific (but not neuronal or intestinal) RNAi of gar-2 suppresses this effect. This finding indicates that GAR-3 and GAR-2 mediate cholinergic signaling in distinct peripheral tissues, with GAR-3 primarily in the intestine and GAR-2 primarily in muscle, to produce their effects on longevity. Given our focus on neuron-gut signaling, the role of GAR-2 in the muscle will be further investigated in future studies. The new data have now been described in Figure S8 by stating (page 13-14): “RNAi of gar-2 in the intestine (Figure 4D and 4E), but not in neurons or the muscle (Figure 4D-4F, and Figure S8A, S8D-S8E), abolished the ability of cholinergic motor neurons to extend lifespan at mid-late life stage. Thus, GAR-3 may function in the intestine to regulate lifespan. Surprisingly, RNAi of gar-2 in the muscle (Figure S8A-S8C), but not in neurons or the intestine (Figure S7F-S7H) had an effect on the ability of cholinergic motor neurons to extend lifespan in mid-late life, indicating that GAR-2 acts in the muscle to regulate lifespan.”

      (1) Packer, J. S. et al. A lineage-resolved molecular atlas of C. elegans embryogenesis at single-cell resolution. Science 365, doi:10.1126/science.aax1971 (2019).

      (2) Roux, A. E. et al. Individual cell types in C. elegans age differently and activate distinct cell-protective responses. Cell Rep 42, 112902, doi:10.1016/j.celrep.2023.112902 (2023).

      (3) Chun, L. et al. Metabotropic GABA signalling modulates longevity in C. elegans. Nat Commun 6, 8828, doi:10.1038/ncomms9828 (2015).

      (4) Izquierdo, P. G. et al. Cholinergic signaling at the body wall neuromuscular junction distally inhibits feeding behavior in Caenorhabditis elegans. J Biol Chem 298, 101466, doi:10.1016/j.jbc.2021.101466 (2022).

      (5) “In line 344, please correct "fwork" to "work".”

      This has now been fixed.

      (6) “In line 360, please correct "acts" to "act".”

      This has now been fixed.

      (7) “Please check citations within the main text. Some of the citations do not fit the cited material. For example, in line 112, reference 28 is not about GABAergic neurons.”

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out these important details. We have now carefully checked and corrected the citations throughout the manuscript as suggested.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for The Authors):

      (1) “How are the authors assessing the efficacy of the TeTx manipulations in their strains? Likely TeTx has a concentration-dependent effect. Are there any phenotypes associated with the loss of cholinergic signaling? Also, does TeTx expression in cholinergic neurons alter the neuronal activity of other associated neurons, or alter muscle integrity?”

      Thanks for the question. Our observations show that overexpression of TeTx results in defects including small size, slow growth, egg-laying deficiencies, and severe locomotion impairment, which are all associated with the loss of cholinergic signaling. While we did not directly examine the activity of interconnected neurons in our strains, we tested the muscle integrity by recording muscle reaction to 1 mM levamisole and found that overexpression of TeTx does not affect muscle integrity. To circumvent these pleiotropic complications, we instead employed Syntaxin(T254I) transgenic worms, which exhibits only slight locomotion defects, to further characterize the temporal effect of cholinergic motor neurons on lifespan. This data has now been described in Figure S1A by stating (page 6): “Overexpression of TeTx induces characteristic phenotypes of cholinergic deficiency, such as developmental delay and severe locomotion impairment[32], yet does not compromise muscle function (Figure S1A).”

      (2) “The authors are expressing TeTx throughout the lifespan of the animal, including during development. How does this contribute to the organismal phenotype?”

      As described above, chronic TeTx expression from egg stage results in developmental delay, which is similar to the development phenotype of unc-17 mutant worms defective in acetylcholine transmission. However, unc-17 mutation has no effect on lifespan[3], which is different from TeTx overexpression, indicating that the developmental delay caused by TeTx overexpression may not affect the lifespan phenotype.

      (3) Chun, L. et al. Metabotropic GABA signalling modulates longevity in C. elegans. Nat Commun 6, 8828, doi:10.1038/ncomms9828 (2015).

      (3) “A previous study has shown that increasing cholinergic activity by altering ACR-2 expression can cause neurodegeneration (DOI: https://doi.org/10.1523/JNEUROSCI.1515-10.2010). Does overexpressing syntaxin, or AID-mediated degradation of syntaxin cause motor neuron degeneration, which could also contribute to the lifespan phenotype?”

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point regarding potential motor neuron degeneration. In response, we performed confocal microscopy to assess the motor neurons. We found that worms expressing the transgene Pacr-2::syntaxin::mCherry do not exhibit a defect in the number or morphology of labeled neuronal cell bodies compared to control worms expressing Pacr-2::mCherry. This observation indicates that chronic, increased cholinergic activity through syntaxin overexpression, under our experimental conditions, does not induce motor neuron degeneration. This data has now been described in Figure S1B by stating (page 7): “This transgene simply shortened lifespan without causing a pleotropic effect (Figure 1B), and critically, without inducing motor neuron degeneration (Figure S1B).”

      (4) “Figures 1I-1L: The authors do not show how long it takes for the expression of syntaxin to be restored following the removal of auxin from plates. This would be important to assess the age-dependent effects of neuronal signaling.”

      We thank the reviewer for pointing this out. In general, complete restoration of syntaxin expression occurred within 24 hours after auxin withdrawal. We have now pointed this out in the text by stating (the last sentence on page 24):“Expression of syntaxin(T254I) can be suppressed by auxin treatment and restored in 24 hours following auxin removal.”

      (5) “In Figures S1A-E: Although the mutant backgrounds decrease the lifespan of animals expressing the Pacr2::syntaxin(T254I) transgene, the lifespan of these transgenic animals appears to be extended compared to what was shown in Figure 1B. Is this the case? (can these experiments be repeated alongside wild-type N2s to assess if their lifespan is indeed extended compared to the N2?). Also, if so, could it be that the lifespan effects are modified to different extents by other small neurotransmitters?”

      We thank the reviewer for pointing this out. All the experiments presented in current Figure S2 (original Figure S1) were performed with wild-type N2 controls, which are now included in the updated Figure S2. This data shows that, in the Pacr-2::syntaxin(T254I) transgenic background, loss of unc-25 (GABA) or tph-1 (serotonin) leads to a further extension of lifespan, while loss of other genes had no effect. Importantly, while unc-25 mutation also extends lifespan in wild-type worms, tph-1 mutation does not. This observation indicates that the lifespan effects of cholinergic signaling can be modulated by serotonin. We have now pointed this out in the text by stating (page 9):“As a control, we also tested mutants deficient in other types of small neurotransmitters, including glutamate (eat-4),, GABA (unc-25), serotonin (tph-1), dopamine ,(cat-2), tyramine (tdc-1), and octopamine (tbh-1), but detected no effect, with the exception of tph-1, which showed a modest, partial suppression of the phenotype (Figure S2A-S2F). This observation suggests that the lifespan effects of cholinergic signaling can be modulated by serotonin.”

      (6) “RNAi of several of the receptors appear to modulate wild-type lifespan. Although I understand that this is not the main focus of the manuscript, the fact that this occurs should be mentioned in the results and discussed later on.”

      We thank the reviewer for pointing this out. As suggested by the reviewer, we have now pointed this out in the text by stating (page 9):“Notably, RNAi of several ACh receptors such as acr-11 appears to shorten wild-type lifespan, whereas RNAi of several other ACh receptors such as acr-9 extends wild-type lifespan, suggesting lifespan-modulating potential of ACh receptors (Figure S3).”

      (7) “Cholinergic signaling and ACR-6 have been previously shown to regulate pharyngeal pumping/feeding behavior. (https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jbc.2021.10146”). Could the requirements for ACR-6/cholinergic signaling in longevity be related to caloric restriction/nutritional intake which in turn could be expected to alter DAF-16 and HSF-1 activity? These previous studies should be referenced and discussed.”

      Thanks for the suggestion. As suggested by the reviewer, we have examined the pumping rate of acr-6 mutant worms. Our results showed that acr-6 mutation slightly reduced the pumping rate. As the decrease is relatively minor, we do not expect a major DR effect, though we cannot completely rule out such a possibility. Furthermore, as acr-6 acts in the pharynx to regulate pumping but in the intestine to regulate the role of cholinergic signaling in lifespan, we do not expect this would have a major contribution to our pathway. This new data has now been described in Figure S4I. As suggested by the reviewer, we have now pointed this out in the text by stating (page 10): Previous data has shown that cholinergic signaling and ACR-6 may control pharyngeal pumping[42]. As expected, we found that acr-6 mutation slightly reduced pumping rates (Figure S4G).”

      (8) “The expectation for the studies in Figure 3/DAF-16, is that animals expressing Ex[Pacr-2::syntaxin(T254I)], should have downregulated DAF-16 in the intestine. This needs to be shown through some method (increased daf-16 activation upon loss of cholinergic signaling does not necessarily imply that the converse is also true).”

      We thank the reviewer for the insightful suggestion. The reviewer has suggested us performing additional measurements to confirm that DAF-16 is the downstream transcription factor in the intestine. Specifically, the reviewer suggested testing if syntaxin(T254I) transgene signaling could inhibit DAF-16 activity. We have now followed the reviewer’s suggestion by performing two different assays. First, as also suggested by the first reviewer, we detected the expression of DAF-16 target genes in Pacr-2::syntaxin(T254I) transgenic worms, which exhibited downregulation of these genes, consistent with the notion that increasing cholinergic motor neuron activity inhibits DAF-16. This data has now been described in Figure S5A. Second, we performed an assay to detect DAF-16 subcellular localization pattern in the intestine. We found that acr-6 RNAi notably promotes nuclear translocation of DAF-16, suggesting that ACR-16 inhibits DAF-16, which is consistent with our model. This new data has now been described in Figure S5E. As suggested by the reviewers, we have now pointed this out in the text by stating (page 11): “As expected, the expression level of sod-3 and mtl-1, two commonly characterized DAF-16 target genes, was upregulated in transgenic worms deficient in releasing ACh from cholinergic motor neurons (Figure 3F), and downregulated in transgenic worms with enhanced ACh release from cholinergic motor neurons (Figure S5A), consistent with the notion that DAF-16 acts downstream of cholinergic motor neurons. To obtain further evidence, we assessed the subcellular localization pattern of DAF-16::GFP fusion and found that acr-6 RNAi notably promoted nuclear translocation of DAF-16, confirming that ACh signaling inhibits DAF-16 activity (Figure S5B).”

      (9) “Similarly, it would be good to have additional lines of evidence that signaling through GAR-3 impinges on HSF1, and that the lifespan effects are not due to non-specific effects of hsf-1 knockdown, which could lead to several un-related deficiencies and compromise lifespan (Figure 5b).”

      We thank the reviewer for the valuable suggestions. The reviewer correctly noted that the observed lifespan effect from hsf-1 RNAi could involve non-specific deficiencies. In response, we performed an assay to detect HSF-1 subcellular localization in the intestine upon gar-3 overexpression by using the strain EQ87 (iqIs28[pAH71(hsf-1p::hsf-1::gfp) + pRF4(rol-6)]). We found that the induced nuclear translocation of HSF-1 was weak. This result suggests that GAR-3 may modulate HSF-1 activity through a mechanism distinct from, or more subtle than, robust nuclear accumulation, or that its effect is highly dependent on the expression level and timing.

      (10) “Figure 6: An N2 control should be provided to assess the specificity of the mCherry signal from the intestine (given autofluorescence in the animals' gut).”

      Thanks for the suggestion. As suggested by the reviewer, we have now included the control in Figure S10.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for The Authors):

      (1) “While the model is consistent with the data, there are alternatives that were not addressed. Additionally, there are some deficiencies in the interpretation of results that should be addressed, in my opinion. Possibly most importantly given the claims, the authors should address an alternative model: that it is the level of acetylcholine signaling that matters. Is it possible that the level auxin-inducible degradation of syntaxin(T254I) in acr-2 expressing cells is age dependent, such that one level increases lifespan and the other shortens it, and that the timing doesn't matter at all? A chronic dose response to auxin concentration would address if the level of syntaxin is a non-monotonic determinant of lifespan.”

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for raising this important alternative model. The reviewer suggested that the apparent temporal effect we observed might instead be explained by an age-dependent change in the efficiency of AID system in degrading syntaxin(T254I) in acr-2 expressing cells. That is, different levels of acetylcholine signaling, rather than timing, produce opposite lifespan outcomes. We agree that this is a formal possibility that our current data cannot fully rule out. On the other hand, other data in the manuscript suggests otherwise. For example, the expression of ACR-6 and GAR-3 in the intestine exhibited a temporal switch in early and mid-late life, providing support for a time-dependent mechanism. In addition, the differential requirement of the downstream transcription factors DAF-16 and HSF-1 in the early and mid-late life, respectively, provides further evidence supporting a temporal mechanism. Thus, while we agree that the possibility raised by the reviewer cannot be formally ruled out, the temporal mechanism we proposed may play an important role.

      The reviewer suggested performing a chronic dose-response experiment with varying auxin concentrations. Actually when we first employed the AID system to temporally manipulate motor neuron output at different life stages, we tested potential effects of auxin concentration. Using the soma-expressed TIR1 system, we found that, restoring syntaxin(T254I) activity from day 10 of adulthood extends lifespan, regardless of whether the prior suppression was maintained with 0.1 mM or 0.5 mM auxin. This suggests that the pro-longevity effect is likely not triggered by differences in the efficacy of prior suppression within this concentration range. We acknowledge that the tested dose range may not cover potential threshold concentrations. Furthermore, we cannot exclude the possibility of a non-linear relationship between auxin concentration and degradation efficiency. We agree that a comprehensive chronic dose-response analysis remains a valuable future direction, and we plan to employ more precise tools in the future to investigate the interplay between signal level and temporal context in lifespan regulation. The auxin concentration data have now been described in Figure S1C-1D by stating (page 7): “Comparable outcomes were obtained with both 0.1 mM and 0.5 mM auxin treatments (Figure S1C-1D).” As suggested by the reviewer, we have discussed the alternative model in the Discussion by stating (page 19): “An alternative mechanism based on differential levels of cholinergic signaling could also contribute to the observed lifespan effects.”

      (2) “Several times, including in several section headings, it is claimed that daf-16 (eg line 205-206) and acr-6 (eg line 185-186) function "early in life". This was not tested, so the claim is not warranted. For instance, these genes could act later in life to respond to signals made or sent early in life, or they could act both early and late, or only early (as they claim).”

      We thank the reviewer for this precise and important clarification. The reviewer is correct that our genetic interventions do not by themselves define the temporal window.

      Our experimental rationale was based on the observation that the lifespan-shortening effect of Pacr-2::syntaxin(T254I) expression is similar whether it is induced throughout life or specifically during larval stages (early life), indicating the detrimental effect results from enhanced motor neuron output in early life. Therefore, we used the lifelong expression paradigm as a tool to genetically dissect the downstream pathway triggered by early-life neuronal activation. We acknowledge the reviewer's point that this design does not formally prove that daf-16 or acr-6 acts only in early life; they could be required continuously or again later. However, we would like to note that our expression data show that the gut expression of ACR-6 is restricted to early life, which is consistent with a primary early-life function in this context.

      To reflect this more accurate interpretation, we have revised all relevant statements, including section headings. We now consistently state that daf-16 is required for the lifespan-shortening effect of cholinergic motor neuron, rather than claiming it functions "in early life". We have also toned down the discussion regarding their temporal function by stating (page 12): “Because this lifespan-shortening effect results from enhanced motor neuron output in early life and overwrites its beneficial effect at later stages, we propose this signaling circuit mediates the lifespan-shortening effect in early life.”

      (3) “In line 118, they note that such intervention led to a complex effect on the lifespan curve "by initially promoting worm's survival followed by inhibiting it at later stages." I think that while findings from later experiments support a time-dependent lifespan effect stemming from syntaxin function in the cholinergic motor neurons, this experiment's TeTx expression in those neurons is not time-dependent. Lifespan is an endpoint measure, so there is no sense in which a non-timed perturbation has an early or late effect on an individual. Rather, the effect on survival they observed is at the population level, their intervention increases the average lifespan while decreasing the worm-to-worm variation in lifespan.”

      We thank the reviewer for the critical and precise comment regarding our interpretation of the survival curves of TeTx transgenic worms. As suggested by the reviewers, we have revised the text by stating (page 6): “Surprisingly, such intervention led to a complex effect on the population survival curve by reducing both early mortality and the proportion of long-lived individuals (Figure 1A). Specifically, the 25% lifespan of these worms was prolonged, while their 75% and maximal lifespan were slightly shortened, leading to a mean lifespan slightly increased or unchanged compared to that of wild-type worms. This suggests that inhibiting cholinergic motor neurons may exert temporally distinct effects on survival, leading to decreased individual variation in lifespan.”

      (4) “The layout of the plots separating the responses of wild type and mutants to different panels makes it often difficult to interpret the results. For instance, do acr-6, gar-3, and other receptor mutants or knockdowns affect lifespan on their own? If they do, it matters to the interpretation whether they live longer or shorter than the wild type: which of the mutants phenocopy the lack of a lifespan-extending signal that activates them? Which phenocopy lacks a lifespan-shortening signal that activates them? Could they phenocopy the effect of an inhibitory signal? And critically, are the effects of these mutants on lifespan consistent with their model?”

      “The paper would be stronger if they determined when ACR-6 and GAR-3 functions are necessary and sufficient. Is it possible that the receptor doesn't matter, just that there be one of the two expressed in the intestine, and that other mechanisms determine the lifespan response to modulation of syntaxin(T254I)? What does time-dependent knockdown of these receptors do to daf-16 and hsf-1 localization and to the transcription of the targets of these transcription factors?”

      We thank the reviewer for these insightful comments. We have addressed the points as follows:

      As suggested, we have reorganized the lifespan data in Figure S4 to directly compare wild type and mutant/RNAi conditions within the same panels. This new presentation clarifies the autonomous effects of these genes. The data shows that loss of acr-6 or gar-2 (via RNAi or mutation) has minimal effect on lifespan. Notably, acr-8 RNAi shortens lifespan, whereas the acr-8 mutation does not, supporting our hypothesis of tissue-specific or compensatory roles for this receptor, as detailed in our following response to point (5). The reviewer's key question regarding when these receptors are necessary and sufficient is central to our model. We agree with the reviewer that complementary loss-of-function experiments with temporal precision, such as time-specific knockdown of the two receptors, would provide even stronger evidence. To this end, we attempted to generate endogenous degron-tagged alleles of acr-6 and gar-3 to apply the AID system for precise, stage-specific degradation. Unfortunately, despite multiple design attempts and screening efforts, we were unable to obtain homozeygous strains with the desired genomic edits using the same gRNA we used to knock in mCherry or other gRNAs. This is rather frustrating. Consequently, we are currently unable to perform the ideal temporally controlled loss-of-function experiments suggested by the reviewer.

      (5) “Why does RNAi but not mutation of acr-8 and gar-2 suppress the lifespan shortening effect of Pacr-2::syntaxin(T254I)?”

      Thanks for this important question regarding the differential effects of feeding RNAi versus mutation of acr-8 and gar-2. The discrepancy likely arises from the potential off-target effects of RNAi. RNAi is not strictly specific as it may target other related genes, generating a non-specific effect, whereas precise mutations in acr-8 and gar-2 alone may not produce the same effect.

      (6) “sid-1(-); Ex[Pacr-2::tetx lives longer than sid-1(-); in daf-16(+) worms in Figure 3G; so it is very hard to interpret the lack of effect of Pacr-2::tetx in daf-16(-) worms, since this transgene behaves differently in sid-1 mutants than in wild type worms. This would be clear if the two plots were combined (appropriately, since it is the same experiment). It looks like daf-16 RNAi has a shortening effect in the sid-1 mutant, but not in in sid-1 mutants expressing Pacr-2::text.”

      Thanks for this helpful suggestion. As suggested by the reviewer, we have now merged Figure 3G and 3H into one figure to present as Figure S5F. This combined presentation clarifies the comparison and shows that intestinal daf-16 RNAi shortens lifespan in both sid-1 mutants and sid-1 mutants expressing Pacr-2::TeTx.

      Reviewer #4 (Recommendations for The Authors):

      (1) “Lines 50-52: I would replace "leading to increased incidents in age-related diseases and probability of death" with "leading to the onset of age-related diseases and increased probability of death". Instead of "such an aging process" I would use "the aging process".”

      This has now been fixed.

      (2) “Figure 2E-F: By rescuing the expression of ACR-6 in neurons or intestinal cells alone, the authors show that the release of ACh from cholinergic neurons has effects on the intestine to shorten lifespan. Is ACR-6 expressed in other tissues (e.g. muscle?) It might be interesting to assess whether ACh also regulates lifespan through activating the ACR-6 receptor in other tissues or specifically targets the intestine. This question is partially answered with the tissue-specific RNAi experiments for DAF-16, but it is possible that ACR-6 also modulates other pathways beyond the tested transcription factors.”

      Analyzing the role of other tissues could also be applied to understand how GAR-3 influences lifespan. Along these lines, it would be interesting to expand the tissue-specific knockdown experiments for GAR-3 to other tissues. More importantly, these experiments can address whether activation of ACR-6 and GAR-3 can also have different effects on lifespan by regulating distinct tissues in addition to the intestine, and not only due to temporal expression patterns. For instance, whereas DAF-16 regulates lifespan primarily through its effects in the intestine, HSF1 could have effects on additional tissues. Although it would interesting to perform these experiments, I understand that the authors main focus is the nervous system-gut axis.

      We thank the reviewer for the insightful suggestions regarding the potential tissue-specific functions of ACR-6 and GAR-3. As noted in our response to point #6, endogenous expression imaging indicates that ACR-6 and GAR-3 are primarily expressed in neurons and the intestine with weak expression of GAR-3 in the muscle, so we tested the muscle. We found that muscle-specific RNAi of gar-2 abolished the ability of cholinergic motor neurons to extend lifespan at mid-late life stages, whereas muscle-specific RNAi of gar-3 does not. This result further supports that GAR-3 primarily exerts this effect in the intestine.

      (3) “Can the authors specify in the corresponding figure legend at what age they tested sod-3 and mtl-1 expression in Pacr-2::TeTx worms (Figure 3F)? This is important to support the conclusions of the paper. Along these lines, can the authors also specify at what age they quantified the expression of HSF-1 targets (Figure 5F).”

      Thanks for the suggestion. As recommended, we have now provided the worm age in Figure 3F (day 1 adult) and Figure 5F legends (day 10 adult).

      (4) “To further strengthen the authors' conclusions, it might be interesting to examine the intracellular localization of DAF-16 in the intestine of Pacr-2::TeTx and syntaxin(T254I) worms compared to controls.”

      We thank the reviewer for this valuable suggestion, which was also raised by another reviewer. In response, we examined the subcellular localization of DAF-16 in the intestine. Direct imaging in the Pacr-2::TeTx or Pacr-2::syntaxin(T254I) backgrounds was technically challenging because their fluorescent protein tags (YFP or mCherry) would interfere with the detection of DAF-16::GFP. Therefore, we adopted an alternative approach by modulating the activity of acr-6, the intestinal acetylcholine receptor that transmits cholinergic signals from motor neurons to DAF-16. We found that acr-6 RNAi promotes the nuclear translocation of DAF-16. These new data are presented in Figure S5E by stating (page 11): “To obtain further evidence, we assessed the subcellular localization pattern of DAF-16::GFP fusion and found that acr-6 RNAi notably promotes nuclear translocation of DAF-16, confirming that ACh signaling modulate DAF-16 activity (Figure S5B).”

      (5) “The results with gar-2 RNAi are fascinating. I am very curious (and I assume potential readers too) about what tissues mediate the mid-late life effects of GAR-2 in longevity. Perhaps the authors could add experiments in a couple of other tissues known to regulate organismal lifespan (e.g. muscle). However, I totally understand why the authors focused on GAR-3, especially because both GAR-3 and ACR-6 have effects on the intestine and this is sufficient for the main conclusions of the paper.”

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for the insightful suggestion and for highlighting the potential role of GAR-2. In response, we performed muscle-specific RNAi experiments. Together with our previously presented data, the results show that intestinal (but not neuronal or muscle) RNAi of gar-3 abolished the ability of cholinergic motor neurons to extend lifespan at mid-late life stages, while muscle-specific (but not neuronal or intestinal) RNAi of gar-2 suppresses this effect. This finding indicates that GAR-3 and GAR-2 mediate cholinergic signaling in distinct peripheral tissues, with GAR-3 primarily in the intestine and GAR-2 primarily in the muscle, to produce their effects on longevity. Given our focus on neuron-gut signaling, the role of GAR-2 will be investigated in future studies. The new data have now been described in Figure S8 by stating (page 13-14): “RNAi of gar-3 in the intestine (Figure 4D and 4E), but not in neurons or the muscle (Figure 4D-4F, and Figure S8A, S8D-S8E), abolished the ability of cholinergic motor neurons to extend lifespan at mid-late life stage. Thus, GAR-3 may function in the intestine to regulate lifespan. Surprisingly, RNAi of gar-2 in the muscle (Figure S8A-S8C), but not in neurons or the intestine (Figure S7F-S7H) had effect on the ability of cholinergic motor neurons to extend lifespan in mid-late life, indicating that GAR-2 acts in the muscle to regulate lifespan.”

      (6) “Figure 6: It seems that the genes are also expressed in the muscle. Can the authors include images of other tissues in supplementary figures?”

      Thanks for the suggestion. As suggested by the reviewer, we have now included images of whole worms expressing mCherry, which was knocked in the endogenous locus off gar-3 or acr-6 by CRISPR in Figure S10. However, we did not detect strong expression of gar-3 or acr-6 in the muscle under the conditions examined, which may be limited by the low endogenous protein expression level of the two genes in the muscle, though the CeNGEN website shows they are expressed in the muscle. Determining the precise spatiotemporal expression profiles of these receptors will likely require more sensitive methods. We plan to address this important question in future studies by using such refined approaches.

    1. Author response:

      General Statements

      We thank all three reviewers for their time taken to provide valuable feedback on our manuscript, and for appreciating the quality and usefulness of our data and results presented in our study. We have improved the manuscript based on their suggestions and provide a detailed, point-by-point response below.

      Point-by-point description of the revisions

      Reviewer #1 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

      The authors have a longstanding focus and reputation on single cell sequencing technology development and application. In this current study, the authors developed a novel single-cell multi-omic assay termed "T-ChIC" so that to jointly profile the histone modifications along with the full-length transcriptome from the same single cells, analyzed the dynamic relationship between chromatin state and gene expression during zebrafish development and cell fate determination. In general, the assay works well, the data look convincing and conclusions are beneficial to the community.

      Thank you for your positive feedback.

      There are several single-cell methodologies all claim to co-profile chromatin modifications and gene expression from the same individual cell, such as CoTECH, Paired-tag and others. Although T-ChIC employs pA-Mnase and IVT to obtain these modalities from single cells which are different, could the author provide some direct comparisons among all these technologies to see whether T-ChIC outperforms?

      In a separate technical manuscript describing the application of T-ChIC in mouse cells (Zeller, Blotenburg et al 2024, (Zeller et al., 2024)), we have provided a direct comparison of data quality between T-ChIC and other single-cell methods for chromatin-RNA co-profiling (Please refer to Fig. 1C,D and Fig. S1D, E, of the preprint). We show that compared to other methods, T-ChIC is able to better preserve the expected biological relationship between the histone modifications and gene expression in single cells.

      In current study, T-ChIC profiled H3K27me3 and H3K4me1 modifications, these data look great. How about other histone modifications (eg H3K9me3 and H3K36me3) and transcription factors?

      While we haven’t profiled these other modifications using T-ChIC in Zebrafish, we have previously published high quality data on these histone modifications using the sortChIC method, on which T-ChIC is based (Zeller, Yeung et al 2023)(Zeller et al., 2022). In our comparison, we find that histone modification profiles between T-ChIC and sortChIC are very similar (Fig. S1C in Zeller, Blotenburg et al 2024). Therefore the method is expected to work as well for the other histone marks.

      T-ChIC can detect full length transcription from the same single cells, but in FigS3, the authors still used other published single cell transcriptomics to annotate the cell types, this seems unnecessary?

      We used the published scRNA-seq dataset with a larger number of cells to homogenize our cell type labels with these datasets, but we also cross-referenced our cluster-specific marker genes with ZFIN and homogenized the cell type labels with ZFIN ontology. This way our annotation is in line with previous datasets but not biased by it. Due the relatively smaller size of our data, we didn’t expect to identify unique, rare cell types, but our full-length total RNA assay helps us identify non-coding RNAs such as miRNA previously undetected in scRNA assays, which we have now highlighted in new figure S1c .

      Throughout the manuscript, the authors found some interesting dynamics between chromatin state and gene expression during embryogenesis, independent approaches should be used to validate these findings, such as IHC staining or RNA ISH?

      We appreciate that the ISH staining could be useful to validate the expression pattern of genes identified in this study. But to validate the relationships between the histone marks and gene expression, we need to combine these stainings with functional genomics experiments, such as PRC2-related knockouts. Due to their complexity, such experiments are beyond the scope of this manuscript (see also reply to reviewer #3, comment #4 for details).

      In Fig2 and FigS4, the authors showed H3K27me3 cis spreading during development, this looks really interesting. Is this zebrafish specific? H3K27me3 ChIP-seq or CutTag data from mouse and/or human embryos should be reanalyzed and used to compare. The authors could speculate some possible mechanisms to explain this spreading pattern?

      Thanks for the suggestion. In this revision, we have reanalysed a dataset of mouse ChIP-seq of H3K27me3 during mouse embryonic development by Xiang et al (Nature Genetics 2019) and find similar evidence of spreading of H3K27me3 signal from their pre-marked promoter regions at E5.5 epiblast upon differentiation (new Figure S4i). This observation, combined with the fact that the mechanism of pre-marking of promoters by PRC1-PRC2 interaction seems to be conserved between the two species (see (Hickey et al., 2022), (Mei et al., 2021) & (Chen et al., 2021)), suggests that the dynamics of H3K27me3 pattern establishment is conserved across vertebrates. But we think a high-resolution profiling via a method like T-ChIC would be more useful to demonstrate the dynamics of signal spreading during mouse embryonic development in the future. We have discussed this further in our revised manuscript.

      Reviewer #1 (Significance):

      The authors have a longstanding focus and reputation on single cell sequencing technology development and application. In this current study, the authors developed a novel single-cell multi-omic assay termed "T-ChIC" so that to jointly profile the histone modifications along with the full-length transcriptome from the same single cells, analyzed the dynamic relationship between chromatin state and gene expression during zebrafish development and cell fate determination. In general, the assay works well, the data look convincing and conclusions are beneficial to the community.

      Thank you very much for your supportive remarks.

      Reviewer #2 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

      Joint analysis of multiple modalities in single cells will provide a comprehensive view of cell fate states. In this manuscript, Bhardwaj et al developed a single-cell multi-omics assay, T-ChIC, to simultaneously capture histone modifications and full-length transcriptome and applied the method on early embryos of zebrafish. The authors observed a decoupled relationship between the chromatin modifications and gene expression at early developmental stages. The correlation becomes stronger as development proceeds, as genes are silenced by the cis-spreading of the repressive marker H3k27me3. Overall, the work is well performed, and the results are meaningful and interesting to readers in the epigenomic and embryonic development fields. There are some concerns before the manuscript is considered for publication.

      We thank the reviewer for appreciating the quality of our study.

      Major concerns:

      (1) A major point of this study is to understand embryo development, especially gastrulation, with the power of scMulti-Omics assay. However, the current analysis didn't focus on deciphering the biology of gastrulation, i.e., lineage-specific pioneer factors that help to reform the chromatin landscape. The majority of the data analysis is based on the temporal dimension, but not the cell-type-specific dimension, which reduces the value of the single-cell assay.

      We focussed on the lineage-specific transcription factor activity during gastrulation in Figure 4 and S8 of the manuscript and discovered several interesting regulators active at this stage. During our analysis of the temporal dimension for the rest of the manuscript, we also classified the cells by their germ layer and “latent” developmental time by taking the full advantage of the single-cell nature of our data. Additionally, we have now added the cell-type-specific H3K27me3 demethylation results for 24hpf in response to your comment below. We hope that these results, together with our openly available dataset would demonstrate the advantage of the single-cell aspect of our dataset.

      (2) The cis-spreading of H3K27me3 with developmental time is interesting. Considering H3k27me3 could mark bivalent regions, especially in pluripotent cells, there must be some regions that have lost H3k27me3 signals during development. Therefore, it's confusing that the authors didn't find these regions (30% spreading, 70% stable). The authors should explain and discuss this issue.

      Indeed we see that ~30% of the bins enriched in the pluripotent stage spread, while 70% do not seem to spread. In line with earlier observations(Hickey et al., 2022; Vastenhouw et al., 2010), we find that H3K27me3 is almost absent in the zygote and is still being accumulated until 24hpf and beyond. Therefore the majority of the sites in the genome still seem to be in the process of gaining H3K27me3 until 24hpf, explaining why we see mostly “spreading” and “stable” states. Considering most of these sites are at promoters and show signs of bivalency, we think that these sites are marked for activation or silencing at later stages. We have discussed this in the manuscript (“discussion”). However, in response to this and earlier comment, we went back and searched for genes that show H3K27me3 demethylation in the most mature cell types (at 24 hpf) in our data, and found a subset of genes that show K27 demethylation after acquiring them earlier. Interestingly, most of the top genes in this list are well-known as developmentally important for their corresponding cell types. We have added this new result and discussed it further in the manuscript (Fig. 2d,e, , Supplementary table 3).

      Minors:

      (1) The authors cited two scMulti-omics studies in the introduction, but there have been lots of single-cell multi-omics studies published recently. The authors should cite and consider them.

      We have cited more single-cell chromatin and multiome studies focussed on early embryogenesis in the introduction now.

      (2) bT-ChIC seems to have been presented in a previous paper (ref 15). Therefore, Fig. 1a is unnecessary to show.

      Figure 1a. shows a summary of our Zebrafish TChIC workflow, which contains the unique sample multiplexing and sorting strategy to reduce batch effects, which was not applied in the original TChIC workflow. We have now clarified this in “Results”.

      (3) It's better to show the percentage of cell numbers (30% vs 70%) for each heatmap in Figure 2C.

      We have added the numbers to the corresponding legends.

      (4) Please double-check the citation of Fig. S4C, which may not relate to the conclusion of signal differences between lineages.

      The citation seems to be correct (Fig. S4C supplements Fig. 2C, but shows mesodermal lineage cells) but the description of the legend was a bit misleading. We have clarified this now.

      (5) Figure 4C has not been cited or mentioned in the main text. Please check.

      Thanks for pointing it out. We have cited it in Results now.

      Reviewer #2 (Significance):

      Strengths:

      This work utilized a new single-cell multi-omics method and generated abundant epigenomics and transcriptomics datasets for cells covering multiple key developmental stages of zebrafish.

      Limitations:

      The data analysis was superficial and mainly focused on the correspondence between the two modalities. The discussion of developmental biology was limited.

      Advance:

      The zebrafish single-cell datasets are valuable. The T-ChIC method is new and interesting.

      The audience will be specialized and from basic research fields, such as developmental biology, epigenomics, bioinformatics, etc.

      I'm more specialized in the direction of single-cell epigenomics, gene regulation, 3D genomics, etc.

      Thank you for your remarks.

      Reviewer #3 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

      This manuscript introduces T‑ChIC, a single‑cell multi‑omics workflow that jointly profiles full‑length transcripts and histone modifications (H3K27me3 and H3K4me1) and applies it to early zebrafish embryos (4-24 hpf). The study convincingly demonstrates that chromatin-transcription coupling strengthens during gastrulation and somitogenesis, that promoter‑anchored H3K27me3 spreads in cis to enforce developmental gene silencing, and that integrating TF chromatin status with expression can predict lineage‑specific activators and repressors.

      Major concerns

      (1) Independent biological replicates are absent, so the authors should process at least one additional clutch of embryos for key stages (e.g., 6 hpf and 12 hpf) with T‑ChIC and demonstrate that the resulting data match the current dataset.

      Thanks for pointing this out. We had, in fact, performed T-ChIC experiments in four rounds of biological replicates (independent clutch of embryos) and merged the data to create our resource. Although not all timepoints were profiled in each replicate, two timepoints (10 and 24hpf) are present in all four, and the celltype composition of these replicates from these 2 timepoints are very similar. We have added new plots in figure S2f and added (new) supplementary table (#1) to highlight the presence of biological replicates.

      (2) The TF‑activity regression model uses an arbitrary R² {greater than or equal to} 0.6 threshold; cross‑validated R<sup>2</sup> distributions, permutation‑based FDR control, and effect‑size confidence intervals are needed to justify this cut‑off.

      Thank you for this suggestion. We did use 10-fold cross validation during training and obtained the R<sup>2</sup>> values of TF motifs from the independent test set as an unbiased estimate. However, the cutoff of R<sup>2</sup> > 0.6 to select the TFs for classification was indeed arbitrary. In the revised version, we now report the FDR-adjusted p-values for these R<sup>2</sup> estimates based on permutation tests, and select TFs with a cutoff of padj < 0.01. We have updated our supplementary table #4 to include the p-values for all tested TFs. However, we see that our arbitrary cutoff of 0.6 was in fact, too stringent, and we can classify many more TFs based on the FDR cutoffs. We also updated our reported numbers in Fig. 4c to reflect this. Moreover, supplementary table #4 contains the complete list of TFs used in the analysis to allow others to choose their own cutoff.

      (3) Predicted TF functions lack empirical support, making it essential to test representative activators (e.g., Tbx16) and repressors (e.g., Zbtb16a) via CRISPRi or morpholino knock‑down and to measure target‑gene expression and H3K4me1 changes.

      We agree that independent validation of the functions of our predicted TFs on target gene activity would be important. During this revision, we analysed recently published scRNA-seq data of Saunders et al. (2023) (Saunders et al., 2023), which includes CRISPR-mediated F0 knockouts of a couple of our predicted TFs, but the scRNAseq was performed at later stages (24hpf onward) compared to our H3K4me1 analysis (which was 4-12 hpf). Therefore, we saw off-target genes being affected in lineages where these TFs are clearly not expressed (attached Fig 1). We therefore didn’t include these results in the manuscript. In future, we aim to systematically test the TFs predicted in our study with CRISPRi or similar experiments.

      (4) The study does not prove that H3K27me3 spreading causes silencing; embryos treated with an Ezh2 inhibitor or prc2 mutants should be re‑profiled by T‑ChIC to show loss of spreading along with gene re‑expression.

      We appreciate the suggestion that indeed PRC2-disruption followed by T-ChIC or other forms of validation would be needed to confirm whether the H3K27me3 spreading is indeed causally linked to the silencing of the identified target genes. But performing this validation is complicated because of multiple reasons: 1) due to the EZH2 contribution from maternal RNA and the contradicting effects of various EZH2 zygotic mutations (depending on where the mutation occurs), the only properly validated PRC2-related mutant seems to be the maternal-zygotic mutant MZezh2, which requires germ cell transplantation (see Rougeot et al. 2019 (Rougeot et al., 2019)) , and San et al. 2019 (San et al., 2019) for details). The use of inhibitors have been described in other studies (den Broeder et al., 2020; Huang et al., 2021), but they do not show a validation of the H3K27me3 loss or a similar phenotype as the MZezh2 mutants, and can present unwanted side effects and toxicity at a high dose, affecting gene expression results. Moreover, in an attempt to validate, we performed our own trials with the EZH2 inhibitor (GSK123) and saw that this time window might be too short to see the effect within 24hpf (attached Fig. 2). Therefore, this validation is a more complex endeavor beyond the scope of this study. Nevertheless, our further analysis of H3K27me3 de-methylation on developmentally important genes (new Fig. 2e-f, Sup. table 3) adds more confidence that the polycomb repression plays an important role, and provides enough ground for future follow up studies.

      Minor concerns

      (1) Repressive chromatin coverage is limited, so profiling an additional silencing mark such as H3K9me3 or DNA methylation would clarify cooperation with H3K27me3 during development.

      We agree that H3K27me3 alone would not be sufficient to fully understand the repressive chromatin state. Extension to other chromatin marks and DNA methylation would be the focus of our follow up works.

      (2) Computational transparency is incomplete; a supplementary table listing all trimming, mapping, and peak‑calling parameters (cutadapt, STAR/hisat2, MACS2, histoneHMM, etc.) should be provided.

      As mentioned in the manuscript, we provide an open-source pre-processing pipeline “scChICflow” to perform all these steps (github.com/bhardwaj-lab/scChICflow). We have now also provided the configuration files on our zenodo repository (see below), which can simply be plugged into this pipeline together with the fastq files from GEO to obtain the processed dataset that we describe in the manuscript. Additionally, we have also clarified the peak calling and post-processing steps in the manuscript now.

      (3) Data‑ and code‑availability statements lack detail; the exact GEO accession release date, loom‑file contents, and a DOI‑tagged Zenodo archive of analysis scripts should be added.

      We have now publicly released the .h5ad files with raw counts, normalized counts, and complete gene and cell-level metadata, along with signal tracks (bigwigs) and peaks on GEO. Additionally, we now also released the source datasets and notebooks (Rmarkdown format) on Zenodo that can be used to replicate the figures in the manuscript, and updated our statements on “Data and code availability”.

      (4) Minor editorial issues remain, such as replacing "critical" with "crucial" in the Abstract, adding software version numbers to figure legends, and correcting the SAMtools reference.

      Thank you for spotting them. We have fixed these issues.

      Reviewer #3 (Significance):

      The method is technically innovative and the biological insights are valuable; however, several issues-mainly concerning experimental design, statistical rigor, and functional validation-must be addressed to solidify the conclusions.

      Thank you for your comments. We hope to have addressed your concerns in this revised version of our manuscript.

      Author response image 1.

      (1) (top) expression of tbx16, which was one of the common TFs detected in our study and also targeted by Saunders et al by CRISPR. tbx16 expression is restricted to presomitic mesoderm lineage by 12hpf, and is mostly absent from 24hpf cell types. (bottom) shows DE genes detected in different cellular neighborhoods (circled) in tbx16 crispants from 24hpf subset of cells in Saunders et al. None of these DE genes were detected as “direct targets” in our analysis and therefore seem to be downstream effects. (2) Effect of 3 different concentrations of EZH2 inhibitor (GSK123) on global H3K27me3 quantified by flow cytometry using fluorescent coupled antibody (same as we used in T-ChIC) in two replicates. The cells were incubated between 3 and 10 hpf and collected afterwards for this analysis. We observed a small shift in H3K27me3 signal, but it was inconsistent between replicates.

      References

      Chen, Z., Djekidel, M. N., & Zhang, Y. (2021). Distinct dynamics and functions of H2AK119ub1 and H3K27me3 in mouse preimplantation embryos. Nature Genetics, 53(4), 551–563. den Broeder, M. J., Ballangby, J., Kamminga, L. M., Aleström, P., Legler, J., Lindeman, L. C., & Kamstra, J. H. (2020). Inhibition of methyltransferase activity of enhancer of zeste 2 leads to enhanced lipid accumulation and altered chromatin status in zebrafish. Epigenetics & Chromatin, 13(1), 5.

      Hickey, G. J., Wike, C. L., Nie, X., Guo, Y., Tan, M., Murphy, P. J., & Cairns, B. R. (2022). Establishment of developmental gene silencing by ordered polycomb complex recruitment in early zebrafish embryos. eLife, 11, e67738.

      Huang, Y., Yu, S.-H., Zhen, W.-X., Cheng, T., Wang, D., Lin, J.-B., Wu, Y.-H., Wang, Y.-F., Chen, Y., Shu, L.-P., Wang, Y., Sun, X.-J., Zhou, Y., Yang, F., Hsu, C.-H., & Xu, P.-F. (2021). Tanshinone I, a new EZH2 inhibitor restricts normal and malignant hematopoiesis through upregulation of MMP9 and ABCG2. Theranostics, 11(14), 6891–6904.

      Mei, H., Kozuka, C., Hayashi, R., Kumon, M., Koseki, H., & Inoue, A. (2021). H2AK119ub1 guides maternal inheritance and zygotic deposition of H3K27me3 in mouse embryos. Nature Genetics, 53(4), 539–550.

      Rougeot, J., Chrispijn, N. D., Aben, M., Elurbe, D. M., Andralojc, K. M., Murphy, P. J., Jansen, P. W. T. C., Vermeulen, M., Cairns, B. R., & Kamminga, L. M. (2019). Maintenance of spatial gene expression by Polycomb-mediated repression after formation of a vertebrate body plan. Development (Cambridge, England), 146(19), dev178590.

      San, B., Rougeot, J., Voeltzke, K., van Vegchel, G., Aben, M., Andralojc, K. M., Flik, G., & Kamminga, L. M. (2019). The ezh2(sa1199) mutant zebrafish display no distinct phenotype. PloS One, 14(1), e0210217.

      Saunders, L. M., Srivatsan, S. R., Duran, M., Dorrity, M. W., Ewing, B., Linbo, T. H., Shendure, J., Raible, D. W., Moens, C. B., Kimelman, D., & Trapnell, C. (2023). Embryo-scale reverse genetics at single-cell resolution. Nature, 623(7988), 782–791.

      Vastenhouw, N. L., Zhang, Y., Woods, I. G., Imam, F., Regev, A., Liu, X. S., Rinn, J., & Schier, A. F. (2010). Chromatin signature of embryonic pluripotency is established during genome activation. Nature, 464(7290), 922–926.

      Zeller, P., Blotenburg, M., Bhardwaj, V., de Barbanson, B. A., Salmén, F., & van Oudenaarden, A. (2024). T-ChIC: multi-omic detection of histone modifications and full-length transcriptomes in the same single cell. In bioRxiv (p. 2024.05.09.593364). https://doi.org/10.1101/2024.05.09.593364

      Zeller, P., Yeung, J., Viñas Gaza, H., de Barbanson, B. A., Bhardwaj, V., Florescu, M., van der Linden, R., & van Oudenaarden, A. (2022). Single-cell sortChIC identifies hierarchical chromatin dynamics during hematopoiesis. Nature Genetics. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41588-022-01260-3

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study builds upon a major theoretical account of value-based choice, the 'attentional drift diffusion model' (aDDM), and examines whether and how this might be implemented in the human brain using functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI). The aDDM states that the process of internal evidence accumulation across time should be weighted by the decision maker's gaze, with more weight being assigned to the currently fixated item. The present study aims to test whether there are (a) regions of the brain where signals related to the currently presented value are affected by the participant's gaze; (b) regions of the brain where previously accumulated information is weighted by gaze.

      To examine this, the authors developed a novel paradigm that allowed them to dissociate currently and previously presented evidence, at a timescale amenable to measuring neural responses with fMRI. They asked participants to choose between bundles or 'lotteries' of food times, which they revealed sequentially and slowly to the participant across time. This allowed modelling of the haemodynamic response to each new observation in the lottery, separately for previously accumulated and currently presented evidence.

      Using this approach, they find that regions of the brain supporting valuation (vmPFC and ventral striatum) have responses reflecting gaze-weighted valuation of the currently presented item, whereas regions previously associated with evidence accumulation (preSMA and IPS) have responses reflecting gaze-weighted modulation of previously accumulated evidence.

      Strengths:

      A major strength of the current paper is the design of the task, nicely allowing the researchers to examine evidence accumulation across time despite using a technique with poor temporal resolution. The dissociation between currently presented and previously accumulated evidence in different brain regions in GLM1 (before gaze-weighting), as presented in Figure 5, is already compelling. The result that regions such as preSMA respond positively to |AV| (absolute difference in accumulated value) is particularly interesting, as it would seem that the 'decision conflict' account of this region's activity might predict the exact opposite result. Additionally, the behaviour has been well modelled at the end of the paper when examining temporal weighting functions across the multiple samples.

      Weaknesses:

      The results relating to gaze-weighting in the fMRI signal could do with some further explication to become more complete. A major concern with GLM2, which looks at the same effects as GLM1 but now with gaze-weighting, is that these gaze-weighted regressors may be (at least partially) correlated with their non-gaze-weighted counterparts (e.g., SVgaze will correlate with SV). But the non-gaze-weighted regressors have been excluded from this model. In other words, the authors are not testing for effects of gaze-weighting of value signals *over and above* the base effects of value in this model. In my mind, this means that the GLM2 results could simply be a replication of the findings from GLM1 at present. GLM3 is potentially a stronger test, as it includes the value signals and the interaction with gaze in the same model. But here, while the link to the currently attended item is quite clear (and a replication of Lim et al, 2011), the link to previously accumulated evidence is a bit contorted, depending upon the interpretation of a behavioural regression to interpret the fMRI evidence. The results from GLM3 are also, by the authors' own admission, marginal in places.

      We have addressed this comment with new GLMs. The new GLM1 includes both non-gazeweighted and gaze-weighted regressors and finds that the vmPFC and striatum reflect gazeweighted sampled value, while the preSMA reflects gaze-weighted accumulated value. We have now dropped the old GLM3 and added two other GLMs, one that explicitly interacts accumulated value with accumulated dwell, and the other that considers only partial gaze discounting. These analyses all support the preSMA as encoding gaze-weighted accumulated value.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this paper, the authors seek to disentangle brain areas that encode the subjective value of individual stimuli/items (input regions) from those that accumulate those values into decision variables (integrators) for value-based choice. The authors used a novel task in which stimulus presentation was slowed down to ensure that such a dissociation was possible using fMRI despite its relatively low temporal resolution. In addition, the authors leveraged the fact that gaze increases item value, providing a means of distinguishing brain regions that encode decision variables from those that encode other quantities such as conflict or time-on-task. The authors adopt a region-of-interest approach based on an extensive previous literature and found that the ventral striatum and vmPFC correlated with the item values and not their accumulation, whereas the pre-SMA, IPS, and dlPFC correlated more strongly with their accumulation. Further analysis revealed that the preSMA was the only one of the three integrator regions to also exhibit gaze modulation.

      Strengths:

      The study uses a highly innovative design and addresses an important and timely topic. The manuscript is well-written and engaging, while the data analysis appears highly rigorous.

      Weaknesses:

      With 23 subjects, the study has relatively low statistical power for fMRI.

      We believe several features of our study design and analytic approach mitigate concerns regarding statistical power.

      First, our paradigm leveraged a within-subjects design with high total sample counts. Each participant completed approximately 60 choice trials across three 15-minute runs, with an average of 6.37 samples per trial. This yielded roughly 380 observations per participant, providing substantial statistical power at the individual level before aggregating across subjects. This within-subject power is particularly important for detecting parametric effects, as our regressors of interest (|∆_S_V| and |∆AV|) varied continuously across and within trials.

      Second, rather than conducting an exploratory whole-brain analysis that would require larger sample sizes to correct for multiple comparisons, we employed a targeted ROI approach based on well-established regions from prior literature (e.g., Bartra et al., 2013; Hare et al., 2011). This ROI-driven approach substantially increases statistical power by reducing the search space and leverages theoretical predictions about where effects should occur. Our novel contribution that gaze modulation of accumulated evidence signals was reflected in preSMA activity builds naturally on established findings. However, we acknowledge that a larger sample size would provide greater confidence in the null effects and would enable more detailed individual differences analyses.

      We have added a brief acknowledgement of the sample size limitation to the Discussion section of the main text:

      “While our sample size of 20 subjects is modest by current neuroimaging standards, the withinsubject statistical power from our extended decision paradigm (~380 observations per subject), combined with hypothesis-driven ROI analyses and multiple comparisons correction, provides confidence in our core findings. Nevertheless, replication with larger samples would be valuable, particularly for more fully characterizing null effects and marginal findings.”

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Editor Comments:

      Reviewer 1 in particular makes a number of suggestions for additional analyses that would help to strengthen the evidence supporting your conclusions.

      We thank the editor and the reviewers for the helpful suggestions for improving our manuscript. We discuss our efforts to address each point below.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) To address my concerns about GLM2, the first thing to do might be to simply show the correlation between the regressors used across the three different models (e.g., as a figure in the methods). Although the authors have done a good job to ensure that AV and SV are decorrelated when including them both in the same model, they haven't shown us whether the regressors used in, for example, GLM2 are correlated/similar to the regressors used in GLM1. This is important information for interpretation.

      Thank you for raising concerns about the overlap between different models. We agree that additional information regarding the correlation among sample-level regressors would aide readers in understanding the differences among the analyses. We now include this information in Figure 7 in the Methods section, as requested. While |SV| was uncorrelated with gaze-weighted |SV| (|SV<sub>Gaze</sub>|; Pearson’s r = 0.002, p = 0.848), lagged |AV| was significantly correlated with lagged, gaze-weighted |AV| (lagged |AV<sub>Gaze</sub>|; r = 0.365, p < 2.2 × 10<sup.-16</sup>).

      (2) The acid test for gaze-modulation of value signals would be to show that the gazemodulated signals explain the fMRI results over and above the non-gaze-modulated signals. This could simply mean including SVgaze and SV (and equivalent terms for AV) within the same GLM. Following from point (1), the authors may point out that these terms are highly correlated - yes, but the GLM will then test for the effects of SVgaze *over and above* the effects of SV. (In fact, although I'd normally caution against orthogonalisation - it would here be totally legitimate to orthogonalise SVgaze w.r.t. SV).

      We appreciate the reviewer’s suggestions for more robust tests of the presence of gaze-weighted signals. For reasons highlighted in our response above, we were initially hesitant to include both types of regressors in the same model due to their significant correlation. However, we now report the results of this analysis in the main text as the new GLM 1. This model incorporates both gaze-weighted and non-gaze-weighted terms. For each contrast we used the same procedures as reported in the main text (family-wise error corrected at p<0.05 and clusterforming thresholds at p<0.005).

      In the vmPFC, we found significant effects of both |∆SV| (peak voxel: x = -14, y = 44, z = -12; t = 3.90, p = 0.0190) and |∆SV<sub>Gaze</sub>| (peak voxel: x = 4, y = 38, z = -4; t= 5.21 p = 0.004), but no effects of |∆AV| or |∆AV<sub>Gaze</sub>|. The striatum also showed a significant correlation with |∆SV<sub>Gaze</sub>| (peak voxel: x = 22, y = 20, z = -10; t = 5.10 p = 0.014), but no other regressors.

      In the pre-SMA, we found a significantly positive relationship with both |∆AV| (peak voxel: x = 4, y = 14, z = 50; t = 4.75 p < 0.001) and |∆AV<sub>Gaze</sub>| (peak voxel: x = 4, y = 18, z = 50; t = 2.98, p = 0.032). In contrast, the dlPFC (x = 40, y = 34, z = 26; t = 6.83, p < 0.001) and IPS (x = 42, y = -50, z = 42; t = 5.16, p \= 0.010) were only correlated with |∆AV|. No other significant contrasts emerged.

      These results provide direct support for the presence of gaze-modulated value signals in the brain, which we now describe in the main text Results section.

      (3) With regards to GLM3, it would help to provide a bit more detail on what the time series looks like for the gaze regressor in this model - is it the entire timeseries of gaze (which presumably shifts back/forth between options multiple times within each trial) which is being convolved with the HRF? This seems different from how gaze is being calculated in GLM2, where it is amalgamated into an 'average gaze difference' within a sample between left/right options, if I understand the text correctly?

      We apologize for the lack of details regarding how we operationalized the gaze regressors in our analyses. You are correct that the gaze regressor was calculated differently in GLM2 and GLM3.

      However, in response to the reviewer’s points above (Major Point 2) and below (Major Point 4, Minor Point 1), we have decided to drop the old GLM3 from the paper while incorporating a revised GLM1 (combining old GLM1 and GLM2) and two new GLMs (see responses to Major Point 4 and Minor Point 1) to provide clearer evidence for gaze modulation of accumulated value in the brain.

      (4) Also, is there not a reason why it isn't more appropriate to interact AV with *previously deployed gaze difference* (accumulated across previous samples) in this model, rather than the current gaze location? The latter seems to rely upon the indirect linkage via the behavioural modelling result, which seems to weaken the claim.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. We agree that our original GLM3 approach was limited because it interacted AV with current binary gaze location, which relies on the indirect behavioral relationship we established (i.e., that current gaze is negatively correlated with accumulated past gaze).

      The original GLM2 (which is now incorporated into the new GLM1) implemented something similar to what the reviewer is suggesting as it used gaze-weighted values accumulated across all previous samples. Specifically, in GLM2, the gaze-weighted accumulated value (AV<sub>gaze</sub>) was calculated as the sum of all previous sampled values, each weighted by the proportion of gaze allocated to each option during that sampling period.

      However, to more directly test whether accumulated evidence signals are modulated by accumulated gaze allocation we have now run an additional analysis (GLM2). In this analysis we have revised the old GLM3 to include additional regressors: ∆SV, lagged ∆AV, current gaze location, accumulated dwell advantage, ∆SV × current gaze location, and lagged ∆AV × accumulated dwell advantage.

      The two new regressors were defined as follows:

      Accumulated dwell advantage: For each sample t, accumulated dwell advantage represents the cumulative difference in gaze allocation up to sample t-1, calculated as (total dwell left – total dwell right) / (total dwell left + total dwell right). This is a continuous measure from -1 (all previous gaze to right) to +1 (all previous gaze to left).

      ∆AV × accumulated dwell advantage: The interaction between accumulated values and accumulated dwell advantage, which directly tests whether brain regions encoding accumulated value are modulated by the history of gaze allocation.

      This approach is conceptually similar to old GLM2’s gaze-weighting method, but allows us to examine the interaction effect more explicitly as a separate regressor rather than having it embedded within the value calculation.

      Here, we found that the pre-SMA showed a positive correlation with the ∆AV × accumulated dwell advantage term (peak voxel: x = 8, y = 10, z = 58; t = 3.10, p = 0.0258). Surprisingly, the striatum also showed a correlation with this term (peak: x = -16, y = 10, z = -6; t = 4.07, p = 0.0176). No other ROIs showed significant relationships.

      This analysis provides additional evidence that pre-SMA encodes accumulated value signals that are modulated by accumulated gaze allocation, without relying on indirect relationships between current and past gaze. We now report these results in the main text as GLM2 as follows:

      “To more directly test whether accumulated evidence signals were modulated by accumulated gaze allocation throughout a trial, we conducted additional, exploratory analyses. Specifically, we ran a GLM that incorporated the following two terms: accumulated dwell advantage and ∆AV × accumulated dwell advantage, in addition to ∆SV, the current gaze location, and ∆SV × current gaze location.

      We calculated accumulated dwell advantage as follows: For each sample t, accumulated dwell advantage is the cumulative difference in gaze allocation up to sample t-1, calculated as (total dwell left – total dwell right) / (total dwell left + total dwell right). This is a continuous measure from -1 (all previous gaze to right) to +1 (all previous gaze to left).

      We also included the interaction between accumulated dwell advantage and ∆AV (i.e., signed accumulated evidence). This interaction term is positive when gaze is primarily to the left and left has more value or when gaze is primarily to the right and right has more value. This interaction term directly tests whether brain regions encoding accumulated evidence are modulated by the history of gaze allocation. This approach allows us to examine the interaction effect more explicitly as a separate regressor rather than having it embedded within the value calculation itself.

      This GLM revealed a positive correlation between pre-SMA activity and the ∆AV × accumulated dwell advantage term (peak voxel: x = 8, y = 10, z = 58; t = 3.01, p = 0.026). Surprisingly, the striatum also showed a correlation with this term (peak voxel: x = -16, y = 10, z = -6; t = 4.07, p = 0.018). Additionally, activity in the dlPFC was positively correlated with ∆SV (peak voxel: x = -36, y = 34, z = 22; t = 3.96, p \= 0.016). No other ROIs showed significant relations.

      This analysis provides additional evidence that the pre-SMA encodes accumulated value signals that are modulated by the history of gaze allocation.”

      Minor

      (1) "In Trial A, the subject looks left 30% of the time and right 70% of the time. In Trial B, the subject looks left 70% of the time and right 30% of the time. In Trial A, the net input value ("drift rate") would be |0.3 ∙ 7 − 0.7 ∙ 3| = 0. In Trial B, the drift rate would be |0.7 ∙ 7 − 0.3 ∙ 3| = 4." I may be missing something, but isn't this consistent with an aDDM with theta=0, rather than theta=0.3-0.5 as is typically found?

      The reviewer raises an important point about our assumptions regarding attentional discounting. We agree that our approach could be problematic as it may assume stronger discounting than has been observed in the literature.

      To address this concern, we calculated drift on a sample-by-sample basis before aggregating to the trial level. Following Smith, Krajbich, and Webb (2019), for each individual sample within a trial, we computed:

      β = (G<sub>Left</sub> × V<sub>Left</sub>) – (G<sub>Right</sub> × V<sub>Right</sub>)

      γ = (G<sub>Right</sub> × V<sub>Left</sub>) – (G<sub>Left</sub> × V<sub>Right</sub>),

      where G<sub>Left</sub> and G<sub>Right</sub> represent the proportion of time spent fixating left versus right within that specific sample, and V<sub>Left</sub> and V<sub>Right</sub> are the instantaneous values of the left and right options. We then averaged these sample-level β and γ values across all samples within each trial to obtain trial-level regressors. This approach preserves the fine-grained temporal dynamics of gazedependent value accumulation that would be lost by calculating gaze proportions only at the trial level.

      Using this sample-level method in a mixed-effects logistic regression predicting choice (left vs. right), we estimated subject-specific values of θ = γ/β. Across our sample (N=20), we found mean θ = 0.77 (SD = 0.21, range = 0.55–1.25). These estimates are somewhat higher than the typical aDDM findings of attentional bias (θ = 0.3–0.5). This may reflect the drawn-out nature of this task relative to prior aDDM tasks.

      Next, we ran a new GLM that incorporated these θ estimates in the sampled value estimates. For this GLM3, we computed θ-weighted sampled-value (|∆_TW_SV|) as:

      TWSV = (G<sub>Left</sub> × (V<sub>Left</sub> – θV<sub>Right</sub>)) – (G_R × (V<sub>Right</sub> – θV<sub>Left</sub>)).

      Similar to GLM1, we computed an accumulated value signal based on the lagged sum of previous samples’ |∆_TW_SV| (i.e., |∆_TW_AV|).

      We found significant positive effects of |∆TW_SV| in the vmPFC (peak voxel: x = -14, y = 44, z = -12; t = 3.57, _p = 0.0270) and IPS (peak voxel: x = 30, y = -28, z = 40; t = 4.58 p = 0.0198), but in no other ROI.

      In contrast, we found significant positive relationships between |∆TW_AV| and activity in the preSMA (peak voxel: x = 0, y = 22, z = 52; t = 4.68, _p = 0.0014), dlPFC (peak voxel: x = 40, y = 32, z = 26; t = 4.32, p = 0.0040), and IPS (peak voxel: x = 44, y = -48, z = 42; t = 6.26, p < 0.0000). Notably, we also observed a significant relationship between |∆TW_AV| and activity in the vmPFC (x = 8, y = 38, z = 18; t = 3.89, _p = 0.0410). No other significant contrasts emerged.

      We now report this additional analysis as GLM3 in the main text, as follows:

      “In our first set of analyses, we implicitly assumed complete discounting of non-fixated information, in contrast with previous studies that have generally found only partial discounting (Krajbich et al., 2010; Sepulveda et al., 2020; Smith & Krajbich, 2019; Westbrook et al., 2020). To verify that our results are robust to inter-subject variability in attentional discounting, we estimated subject-level attentional discounting parameters and then re-estimated our original GLM with new, recalculated gaze-weighted value regressors.

      Following Smith, Krajbich, and Webb (2019), for each individual sample within a trial, we computed:

      β = (G<sub>Left</sub> × V<sub>Left</sub>) – (G<sub>Right</sub> × V<sub>Right</sub>) γ = (G<sub>Right</sub> × V<sub>Left</sub>) – (G<sub>Left</sub> × V<sub>Right</sub>), where G<sub>Left</sub> and G<sub>Right</sub> represent the proportion of time spent gazing left versus right within that specific sample, and V<sub>Left</sub> and V<sub>Right</sub> are the instantaneous values of the left and right options. We then averaged these sample-level β and γ values across all samples within each trial to obtain trial-level regressors. We then ran a mixed-effects logistic regression predicting choice (left vs. right) as a function of β and γ and then calculated subject-specific values of θ = γ/β. Across our sample (N=20), we found mean θ = 0.77 (SD = 0.21, range = 0.55–1.25).

      Next, for the GLM, we computed θ-weighted sampled-value (|∆SV<sub>θ</sub>|) as:

      SV<sub>θ</sub> = (G<sub>Left</sub> × (V<sub>Left</sub> − _θ_V<sub>Right</sub>)) – (G<sub>Right</sub> × (V<sub>Right</sub> − _θ_V<sub>Left</sub>))

      Similar to the original GLM, we computed an accumulated value signal, |∆AV<sub>θ</sub>|, based on the lagged sum of previous samples’ |∆SV<sub>θ</sub>|.

      We found significant positive effects of |∆SV<sub>θ</sub>| in the vmPFC (peak voxel: x = -14, y = 44, z = 12; t = 3.57 p = 0.027) and IPS (peak voxel: x = 30, y = -28, z = 40; t = 4.58 p = 0.020), but in no other ROI.

      In contrast, we found significant positive relationships between |∆AV<sub>θ</sub>| and activity in the preSMA (peak voxel: x = 0, y = 22, z = 52; t = 4.68, p = 0.001), dlPFC (peak voxel: x = 40, y = 32, z = 26; t = 4.32, p = 0.004), and IPS (peak voxel: x = 44, y = -48, z = 42; t = 6.26, p < 0.0001). Notably, we also observed a significant relationship between |∆AV<sub>θ</sub>| and activity in the vmPFC (x = 8, y = 38, z = 18; t = 3.89, p = 0.041). No other significant contrasts emerged.

      In summary, these analyses provide additional evidence that the vmPFC encodes gaze-weighted sampled value signals and the pre-SMA encodes gaze-weighted accumulated value signals, though other correlations also emerged.”

      (2) The reporting of statistical results in the fMRI could be sharpened - e.g. in the figure legends, don't just say "Voxels thresholded at p < .05.", but make clear whether you mean FWE whole-brain corrected (I think you do from the methods) or whether this is uncorrected for display; similarly, for the peak voxels, report the associated Z statistic at that voxel rather than just "negative beta".

      We agree that it is important to include additional details regarding how we reported the statistical results. We now clarify our procedures in the main text:

      “We report results using FWE-corrected statistical significance of p < 0.05 and a cluster significance threshold of p < 0.005.”

      We now also report the T statistics for peak voxels.

      (3) A couple of the citations are slightly wrong - e.g., Kolling et al 2012 shouldn't be cited as arguing for decision conflict, as in fact it argues strongly against this account and in favour of a foraging account of ACC activity. Similarly, Hunt et al 2018 doesn't provide support for decision conflict; instead, it shows signals in ACC show evidence accumulation for left/right actions over time (although not whether these accumulator signals are gazeweighted, in the same way as the present study).

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out these mistakes in our citations. We have revised the references throughout.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) In some places, the introduction would benefit from fleshing out certain points. For example it is stated “For instance, decisions that are less predictable also tend to take more time (Konovalov & Krajbich, 2019) and can be influenced by attention manipulations (Parnamets et al., 2015; Tavares et al., 2017; Gwinn et al., 2019; Bhatnagar & Orquin, 2022). The quantitative relations between these measures argue for an evidenceaccumulation process.” It is not clear why the relations between them argue for an EA process, and the reader would benefit from some further explanation.

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful suggestion. We agree that the original text did not sufficiently explain why these relationships support evidence-accumulation models. We have revised the introduction to better articulate the mechanistic basis for this claim.

      This revision clarifies these points in the main text:

      “Decisions like this are thought to rely on a bounded, evidence-accumulation process that depends on factors such as the value of the sampled information and shifts in attention. According to this framework, when two options are similar in value, evidence accumulates more slowly towards the decision threshold, resulting in longer response times (RT) and more opportunity for shifts in attention to influence the choice outcome. In contrast, when one option is clearly superior, evidence accumulates more rapidly and the decision is made quickly with less of a relation between gaze and choice. This choice process produces reliable, quantitative patterns in choice, RT, and eye-tracking data (Ashby et al., 2016; Callaway et al., 2021; Gluth et al., 2018; Krajbich et al., 2010; Smith & Krajbich, 2018). For instance, decisions with similar values are more random (i.e., less predictable), tend to take more time (Konovalov & Krajbich, 2019), and can be experimentally manipulated by diverting attention towards one option more than the other (Bhatnagar & Orquin, 2022; Gwinn et al., 2019; Pärnamets et al., 2015; Pleskac et al., 2022; Tavares et al., 2017). Critically, these behavioral measures do not simply correlate; rather, they exhibit precise quantitative relationships consistent with evidence accumulation models (Konovalov & Krajbich, 2019).”

      (2) Some of the study hypotheses also need to be clarified. What are the hypotheses regarding how SV and AV should translate to BOLD in an input vs integrator region? Larger SV/AV = larger BOLD? What predictions would be made for a time-on-task or conflict region? Are the predictions the same or different? Clarifying this will help the reader to understand to what extent the gaze manipulation is pivotal in identifying integrator regions.

      We thank the reviewer for this excellent suggestion. We agree that it is useful to clearly articulate our hypotheses about BOLD signal predictions for different aspects of the model, and why gaze manipulation is critical for distinguishing between them. We have now expanded the introduction to clarify these predictions.

      For input regions, we predicted a straightforward positive relationship: larger sampled value (|ΔSV|) should produce larger BOLD activity. Input regions encode the momentary evidence being sampled (i.e., the relative value of currently presented stimuli). Consistent with prior work (Bartra et al., 2013), we expected such activity in the vmPFC and ventral striatum.

      Critically, we also predicted that these sampled value signals should be modulated by gaze location. The attentional drift-diffusion model (aDDM; Krajbich et al., 2010) posits that attended items receive full value weight while unattended items are discounted. Consistent with prior work (Lim et al., 2011), we expected stronger vmPFC/striatum activity when the higher-value item is fixated compared to when the lower-value item is fixated

      For integrator regions, we predicted an analogous positive relationship: larger accumulated value (|ΔAV|) should produce more BOLD activity. Accumulator regions encode the summed evidence over the course of the decision. Consistent with prior work (Hare et al. 2011; Gluth et al. 2021; Pisauro et al. 2017) we expected such activity in the pre-SMA, dlPFC, and, IPS.

      As with sampled value, we predicted that integrator activity should reflect gaze-weighted accumulated value. Just as inputs are modulated by current gaze, the accumulated evidence should be weighted by the history of gaze allocation over the entire trial.

      Conflict-based models make qualitatively different predictions. Regions implementing conflict monitoring should show increased activity when options are similar in value, regardless of time.

      The conflict account predicts that BOLD activity should scale with inverse value difference: smaller |ΔV| → higher conflict → higher BOLD (Shenhav et al., 2014, 2016). In simple choice tasks, high conflict and high accumulated value are both associated with long RT (Pisauro et al. 2017), leading to ambiguity about how to interpret purported neural correlates of accumulated value. In our task we avoid this ambiguity – we analyze the effect of accumulated value at each point in time, not just at the time of decision. In this case, conflict should be inversely correlated with accumulated value. Moreover, the conflict account makes no predictions about how BOLD activity should be modulated by gaze allocation for a given set of values.

      A more serious concern is the potential link to putative time-on-task BOLD activity. Accumulated value inevitably increases with time, leading to a correlation between the two variables (Grinband et al. 2011; Holroyd et al., 2018; Mumford et al. 2024). This is where the gaze data become particularly important. Time-on-task regions should show no relation with gaze allocation. After accounting for non-gaze-weighted accumulated value, only accumulator, and not time-on-task, regions should show a relation with gaze-weighted accumulated value. The results of the revised GLMs provide exactly such evidence.

      We have edited the manuscript to make clear to readers why our gaze manipulation was not merely exploratory but rather a theoretically-motivated test to distinguish between competing models of decision-related neural activity.

      We have clarified our study hypotheses in the Introduction as follows:

      “We hypothesized that we would find (1) a positive correlation between gaze-weighted |SV| and activity in the reward network (the ventromedial prefrontal cortex (vmPFC) and ventral striatum), and (2) a positive correlation between gaze-weighted |AV| in the pre-supplementary motor area (pre-SMA) (Aquino et al., 2023), dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (dlPFC), and intraparietal sulcus (IPS).”

      We have also added clarifying text about conflict and time-on-task to the Discussion as follows: “Conflict-based models make qualitatively different predictions. Regions implementing conflict monitoring should show increased activity when options are similar in value, regardless of time. The conflict account predicts that BOLD activity should scale with the inverse value difference: smaller |ΔV| → higher conflict → higher BOLD (Shenhav et al., 2014, 2016). In simple choice tasks, high conflict and high accumulated value are both associated with long response times (Pisauro et al., 2017), leading to ambiguity about how to interpret purported neural correlates of accumulated value. In our task we avoided this ambiguity by analyzing the effect of accumulated value at each point in time, not just at the moment of decision. Under this approach, conflict should be inversely correlated with accumulated value (as higher accumulated evidence indicates less similarity between options). Moreover, the conflict account makes no predictions about how BOLD activity should be modulated by gaze allocation for a given set of option values.

      A more serious concern is the potential confound with time-on-task BOLD activity. Accumulated value inevitably increases with time within a trial, leading to a correlation between the two variables (Grinband et al., 2011; Holroyd et al., 2018; Mumford et al., 2024). This is where the gaze data were particularly important. Time-on-task regions should show no relation with gaze allocation patterns. After accounting for non-gaze-weighted accumulated value, only accumulator regions, and not time-on-task regions, should show a relationship with gazeweighted accumulated value. The results of our analyses provide exactly such evidence: preSMA activity was positively correlated with gaze-weighted accumulated value, even when accounting for previous gaze history and individual differences in attention discounting.”

      (3) The authors allude to there being a correlation between SV and AV on this task, but the correlation is never reported. Please report the correlation with and without the removal of T-1.

      We appreciate the reviewer pointing out this omission. We now report all correlations between SV and both the lagged and non-lagged versions of AV in the Methods section (Fig. 7). SV was significantly correlated with the full calculation of AV (Pearson’s r = 0.27). In contrast, this correlation, while still statistically significant, decreased when compared to lagged AV (Pearson’s r = 0.06).

      (4) When examining relationships between SV, AV, and choice probability, the authors note that a larger coefficient for SV compared to AV is an inevitable consequence of an SSM choice process. Please explain why this is the case.

      The reviewer is correct in observing that this point was not made sufficiently clear in the main text. We have now expanded the explanation in the behavioral results section.

      The key insight is that in sequential sampling models, choices occur when accumulated evidence reaches a decision threshold. Importantly, the perceived value of each sample consists of the true underlying value plus random noise. The final sample (SV) is what pushes the accumulated evidence over the threshold, which creates a selection bias: decisions tend to occur when the noise component of SV happens to be positive and large. This means that the perceived final SV systematically overestimates the true SV, biasing upward the regression coefficient for the effect of SV on choice. In contrast, AV represents the sum of all previous sampled evidence, samples that we know did not lead to a choice. These samples are thus more likely to have had a negative or small noise component, meaning that the perceived AV systematically underestimates the true AV. This biases downwards the regression coefficient for the effect of AV on choice.

      In the net, we expect that even when sample evidence is weighted equally over time in the true decision process, regression analyses will inevitably shower larger coefficients for the effects of SV then for those of AV. This is a statistical artefact of the threshold-crossing mechanism, and not a reflection of differential weighting. We have incorporated this explanation into the revised manuscript to make clear why this pattern is an expected consequence of the SSM framework:

      “The larger coefficient for ∆SV compared to ∆AV is an inevitable consequence of an SSM choice process. In SSMs, a choice occurs when accumulated evidence reaches a threshold. Critically, perceived value for any given sample consists of the true underlying value plus random noise. The final sample (∆SV) is what pushes the accumulated evidence over the threshold, which creates a selection effect: decisions tend to be made when the noise component of ∆SV is relatively large and aligned with the ultimate choice, causing the perceived final ∆SV to systematically overestimate the true ∆SV. As a result, the regression coefficient for the effect of final ∆SV on choice is overestimated. In contrast, ∆AV represents the sum of all previous evidence, which includes samples that were insufficient to trigger a choice and thus more likely to have noise components that favored the non-chosen option. This means that the perceived ∆AV systematically underestimates the true ∆AV. As a result, the regression coefficient for the effect of ∆AV on choice is underestimated. This creates an inherent asymmetry between ∆SV and ∆AV: even when the true decision process weights evidence equally over time, regression analyses will show larger coefficients for ∆SV than ∆AV. For any data generated by an SSM, regressing choice probability on final ∆SV and total ∆AV would produce a larger coefficient for ∆SV due to this threshold-crossing selection effect.”

      (5) It is not clear to me why the authors single out the pre-SMA only in the abstract when IPS and dlPFC also show stronger correlations with AV and exhibit gaze modulation in the authors' final non-linear analysis. Further explanation is required in the Discussion and I would also suggest amending the Abstract because the 'Most importantly' claim will not be meaningful for the reader.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s point. In the revised manuscript, we have included several new GLMs, including the new GLM1 that looks at gaze-weighted AV, above and beyond the effect of non-gaze-weighted AV. That analysis only supports pre-SMA. We have now clarified this in the Abstract as follows:

      “Finally, we found gaze modulated accumulated-value signals, above and beyond the non-gazemodulated signals, in the pre-supplementary motor area (pre-SMA), providing novel evidence that visual attention has lasting effects on decision variables and suggesting that activity in the pre-SMA reflects accumulated evidence.”

      (6) Some discussion of statistical power would be warranted given that a sample of 23 is now considered small by current fMRI standards.

      We appreciate the reviewer raising this important issue. We acknowledge that our sample size of 23 subjects (with only 20 having useable eye-tracking data) is on the small side by current fMRI standards. However, we believe several features of our study design and analytic approach mitigate concerns regarding statistical power.

      First, our paradigm leveraged a within-subjects design with high total sample counts. Each participant completed approximately 60 choice trials across three 15-minute runs, with an average of 6.37 samples per trial. This yielded roughly 380 observations per participant, providing substantial statistical power at the individual level before aggregating across subjects. This within-subject power is particularly important for detecting parametric effects, as our regressors of interest (|∆SV| and |∆AV|) varied continuously across and within trials.

      Second, rather than conducting an exploratory whole-brain analysis that would require larger sample sizes to correct for multiple comparisons, we employed a targeted ROI approach based on well-established regions from prior literature (e.g., Bartra et al., 2013; Hare et al., 2011). This ROI-driven approach substantially increases statistical power by reducing the search space and leverages theoretical predictions about where effects should occur. Our novel contribution that gaze modulation of accumulated evidence signals was reflected in pre-SMA activity builds naturally on established findings.

      However, we acknowledge that a larger sample size would provide greater confidence in the null effects and would enable more detailed individual differences analyses.

      We have added a brief acknowledgement of the sample size limitation to the Discussion section of the main text:

      “While our sample size of 20 subjects is modest by current neuroimaging standards, the withinsubject statistical power from our extended decision paradigm (~380 observations per subject), combined with hypothesis-driven ROI analyses and multiple comparisons correction, provides confidence in our core findings. Nevertheless, replication with larger samples would be valuable, particularly for more fully characterizing null effects and marginal findings.”

    1. Author response:

      Thank you for considering our manuscript, “Engineering ATP Import in Yeast Uncovers a Synthetic Route to Extend Cellular Lifespan” (eLife-RP-RA-2025-109761) for publication in eLife. We appreciate the time and effort invested by the reviewers and editors.

      We have carefully read the eLife assessment and both public reviews. After thorough evaluation, we believe there is a significant factual misunderstanding that has propagated through both reviews and fundamentally affected the interpretation of our central findings and the overall evaluation.

      We must also express concern regarding the review process duration. We were informed that the manuscript experienced an extended review period (107 days) due to delay from a third reviewer. Ultimately, we received only two reviews.

      The raised problem of our manuscript containing obvious internal contradictions or technical inconsistencies are not due to flawed data but due to a misinterpretation of measurement directionality.

      We also acknowledge the fact that we should more explicitly describe the figure legend 5, and that the methods sections should include the experimental design that led to the reverse correlation of the AU units.

      Together these facts led to the misinterpretation of the ATP measurements presented in Figure 5, specifically the directionality of the fluorescence-based ATP readout by both reviewers. In this essay, arbitrary units (AU) are reversely correlated with intracellular ATP abundance. Higher AU values correspond to lower ATP levels. This inverse relationship was clearly described in the Results section and figures marked with “Low versus High” of the manuscript, but it appears to have been overlooked. As a result, reviewers interpreted Figure 5 as contradicting Figure 2, when in fact the two datasets are fully consistent.

      Because this misunderstanding affected interpretation of the foundational ATP data, it appears to have influenced evaluation of all downstream conclusions. For example, neither reviewer meaningfully engaged with:

      - The identification of distinct cell death trajectories.

      - The mitochondrial dependency of NTT1-associated toxicity.

      - The integration of ATP depletion with mitochondrial function.

      - The distinction between intracellular ATP manipulation and extracellular ATP sensing mechanisms.

      We fully understand that when foundational data appears contradictory, reviewers naturally deprioritize downstream conclusions. However, in this case, the foundational contradiction does not exist it arises from a misreading of the reporter’s scale.

      From the Results section of the manuscript:

      “Our analysis of ATP abundance throughout the yeast lifespan showed that yeast cells are born with low ATP levels, which gradually increase during their lifespan. Some cells completed their lifespan without any observable reduction in ATP abundance, while others showed a drastic decrease in ATP levels during late life (Fig. 5A–D, Supplementary File S3), consistent with previous observations supporting two modes of yeast lifespan, mediated by mitochondrial and/or SIR2 function (42,46–49). Consistent with our data presented in Figure 2, we also observed significantly lower ATP abundance in NTT1-expressing cells throughout their entire lifespan compared to Wt control cells (Fig. 5A–C). Furthermore, these cells displayed significantly reduced mean and maximum replicative lifespan (RLS), directly indicating that intracellular ATP depletion shortens lifespan (Fig. 5D). Next, we assessed RLS and age-associated ATP changes under ATP supplementation. We found that exposing NTT1 cells to medium supplemented with 10 µM ATP restored intracellular ATP levels (Fig. 5A–C) and significantly (p = 4.03E-18) increased both mean and maximum RLS to levels comparable to WT cells (Fig. 5D).”

      This section explicitly explains that Figure 5 is consistent with Figure 2. LC-MS data (Figure 2) show intracellular ATP depletion in NTT1 cells under baseline conditions and restoration upon extracellular ATP supplementation. Figure 5 shows the same pattern longitudinally. The apparent contradiction raised by both reviewers stems entirely from misreading the directionality of the AU scale.

      In the public assessment,

      Concerns are raised about:

      - “Internally inconsistent, particularly regarding intracellular ATP measurements”

      - “Mismatched ATP measurements”

      - “Conceptual model contradicted by the data”

      - “The plots in Figure 5 make it seem like exogenous ATP addition lowers intracellular ATP…”

      These statements arise directly from the reversed interpretation of the AU scale. If the inverse relationship had been recognized, these perceived inconsistencies would not exist. Unfortunately, this misunderstanding then influenced broader interpretations, including the conclusion that the fundamental NTT1 model is internally contradictory.

      Similarly, Reviewer #2 states that LC-MS and QUEEN reporter data conflict and that ATP supplementation appears to lower intracellular ATP. This again reflects the same directional misunderstanding. There is no conflict between Figure 2 and Figure 5. Both show reduced ATP in NTT1 cells and restoration upon ATP supplementation.

      A second major point concerns the bidirectional transporter hypothesis. Reviewer #1 suggests that NTT1 may be bidirectional. However, NTT1 is well-characterized in the literature as a nucleotide transporter that exchanges extracellular ATP for intracellular ADP. We clearly described this in Figure 1C and cited the appropriate primary literature. The suggestion that we failed to consider directionality appears to stem from the same misinterpretation of intracellular ATP levels. We agree that clarifying the role of ADP/AMP depletion in NTT1-expressing cells would strengthen the manuscript, and we are prepared to revise the text to more explicitly describe how intracellular nucleotide exchange dynamics contribute to ATP depletion under baseline conditions.

      We also note that several criticisms, such as:

      -“Incorrect scale bars”

      - “Figure 5C does not match 5AB”

      - “Conceptual model contradicted by the data”

      - “No apparent correlation between ATP levels and lifespan”

      Are all rooted in this central misunderstanding of how ATP abundance is represented in the fluorescence measurements.

      To address this constructively during the next revision, we are willing to:

      (1) Revise all relevant figure legends to explicitly state that AU values are inversely correlated with ATP abundance. We will expand materials and methods section for clarifying reverse correlation and/or will generate new figures to minimize the confusion.

      (2) Add clarifying annotations directly onto the figures.

      (3) Include new figures for further validation of observed nucleotide changes.

      (4) We will expand our RNAseq data analyses.

      (5) Expand discussion of nucleotide exchange dynamics and transporter directionality

      (6) Adress remaining concerns with additional analyses, experiments and clarification throughout the manuscript.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors describe a method to probe both the proteins associated with genomic elements in cells, as well as 3D contacts between sites in chromatin. The approach is interesting and promising, and it is great to see a proximity labeling method like this that can make both proteins and 3D contacts. It utilizes DNA oligomers, which will likely make it a widely adopted method. However, the manuscript over-interprets its successes, which are likely due to the limited appropriate controls, and of any validation experiments. I think the study requires better proteomic controls, and some validation experiments of the "new" proteins and 3D contacts described. In addition, toning down the claims made in the paper would assist those looking to implement one of the various available proximity labeling methods and would make this manuscript more reliable to non-experts.

      Strengths:

      (1) The mapping of 3D contacts for 20 kb regions using proximity labeling is beautiful.

      (2) The use of in situ hybridization will probably improve background and specificity.

      (3) The use of fixed cells should prove enabling and is a strong alternative to similar, living cell methods.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) A major drawback to the experimental approach of this study is the "multiplexed comparisons". Using the mtDNA as a comparator is not a great comparison - there is no reason to think the telomeres/centrosomes would look like mtDNA as a whole. The mito proteome is much less complex. It is going to provide a large number of false positives. The centromere/telomere comparison is ok, if one is interested in what's different between those two repetitive elements.

      We appreciate the reviewers' point here. In fact we selected the mitochondrial DNA as a target for just the reason that the reviewer notes. mtDNA should be spatially distinct from the nuclear targets and allow us to determine if we were in fact seeing spatially distinct proteins at the interorganelle (mtDNA vs. telomeres/centrosomes) and intraorganelle (telomeres vs centromeres) levels.

      But the more realistic use case of this method would be "what is at a specific genomic element"? A purely nuclear-localized control would be needed for that. Or a genomic element that has nothing interesting at it (I do not know of one).

      We have now added two studies in Figure 4 and Figure 5 detailing the use of OMAP to investigate specific genomic elements. In this case the Hox clusters (HOXA and HOXB) and haplotype-specific analysis of X-chromosome inactivation centers in female murine (EY.T4) cells. The controls in these cases are more specific, in line with those suggested by the reviewer as we (1) compare HOXA and HOXB with or without EZH2 inhibition using the same sets of probes and (2) specifically compare the region surrounding the XIC in female cells for the inactive and active X chromosomes.

      You can see this in the label-free work: non-specific, nuclear GO terms are enriched likely due to the random plus non-random labeling in the nucleus. What would a Telo vs general nucleus GSEA look like? (GSEA should be used for quantitative data, no GO). That would provide some specificity. Figures 2G and S4A are encouraging, but a) these proteins are largely sequestered in their respective locations, and b) no validation by an orthogonal method like ChIP or Cut and Run/Tag is used.

      We performed GSEA on the enrichment scores for the label-free proteomics data from the SAINT output in Figure 1D and that several of these proteins (e.g., those highlighted in Figure 2A: TERF1, CENPN, TOM70) have already been extensively validated to co-localize to these locations.

      To the reviewers request for additional validation, we analyzed ChIP-seq data for several proteins to determine if they were enriched surrounding specific loci. In the case of the HoxA/B analysis, we found that HDAC3 and TCF12 were enriched at HOXB compared to HOXA, and SMARCB1 and ZC3H13 were enriched at HOXA compared to HOXB (Figure 4C). HDAC3 and TCF12 ChIP data confirmed increased peak calls at HOXB and SMARCB1 and ZC3H13 ChIP data confirmed increased peak calls at HOXA for these four selected proteins (Figure 4D).

      You can also see this in the enormous number of "enriched" proteins in the supplemental volcano plots. The hypothesis-supporting ones are labeled, but do the authors really believe all of those proteins are specific to the loci being looked at? Maybe compared to mitochondria, but it's hard to believe there are not a lot of false positives in those blue clouds. I believe the authors are more seeing mito vs nucleus + Telo than the stated comparison. For example, if you have no labeling in the nucleus in the control (Figures 1C and 2C) you cannot separate background labeling from specific labeling. Same with mito vs. nuc+Telo. It is not the proper control to say what is specifically at the Telo.

      We agree with the reviewer that compared to mitochondrial targeting, there could be non-specific nuclear comparisons. We note again though that we purposefully stayed away from using the word “specifically” when describing the proteomics work developed here. The reason being that we are not atlasing a large number of targets to define specificity. Instead, we highlight in Figure 2 that we did observe differences in proteins associating with telomeres and mitochondrial DNA. That may be non-specific, and in fact, this is also why we decided to include two nuclear targets to determine what might be specifically enriched. Thus, we compared centromeric and telomeric protein enrichment as determined by OMAP and observed consistent differential enrichment of shelterin proteins at telomeres (Figure 2I) and CENP-A complex members at centromeres (Figure 2J). We could have done the relative comparisons to no-oligo controls, analogous to how CASPEX compared targeted analyses to no-sgRNA controls (PMID: 29735997). However, we found that the mitochondrial targeted samples were generally better as a comparator because (1) we have clear means to validate differences and (2) the local environment around DNA is being labeled.

      I would like to see a Telo vs nuclear control and a Centromere vs nuc control. One could then subtract the background from both experiments, then contrast Telo vs Cent for a proper, rigorous comparison. However, I realize that is a lot of work, so rewriting the manuscript to better and more accurately reflect what was accomplished here, and its limitations, would suffice.

      Assuming the nuclear control was the same, It is unclear how this ratio-of-ratios ([Telo/Ctrl]/[Cent/ctrl]) experiment would be inherently different from the direct comparison between Telo and Centromere. Again, assuming the backgrounds are derived from the same cellular samples. More than likely adding the extra ratios could increase the artifactual variance in the estimates, reducing the power of the comparisons as has been seen in proteomics data using ratio-of-ratio comparisons in the past (Super-SILAC).

      (2) A second major drawback is the lack of validation experiments. References to literature are helpful but do not make up for the lack of validation of a new method claiming new protein-DNA or DNA-DNA interactions. At least a handful of newly described proximal proteins need to be validated by an orthogonal method, like ChIP qPCR, other genomic methods, or gel shifts if they are likely to directly bind DNA. It is ok to have false positives in a challenging assay like this. But it needs to be well and clearly estimated and communicated.

      We appreciate the reviewers' point here. To be clear, we have not made any claims about new proteins at specific loci. Instead we validated that known telomeric and centromeric associating proteins were consistently enriched by DNA OMAP (Figure 2). We also want to emphasize that while valuable, the current paper is not an atlasing paper to define the full and specific proteomes of two genomic loci. We instead show how this method can be used to observe quantitative differences in proteins enriched at certain loci (HOXA/B work, Figure 4) and even between haplotypes (Xi/Xa work, Figure 5).

      (3) The mapping of 3D contacts for 20 kb regions is beautiful. Some added discussion on this method's benefits over HiC-variants would be welcomed.

      We appreciate the reviewers' point here and have added the following text to the discussion: “Additionally, we show that this method is also able to detect DNA-DNA contacts through biotinylation of loop anchors. Our approach functions similarly to 4C[86]. However, our approach of biotin labeling of contacts does not rely on pairwise ligation events. Thus, detection of contacts through DNA O-MAP will vary in the sampling of DNA-DNA contacts in comparison.”

      (4) The study claims this method circumvents the need for transfectable cells. However, the authors go on to describe how they needed tons of cells, now in solution, to get it to work. The intro should be more in line with what was actually accomplished.

      We took the reviewers point and have worked to scale down the DNA OMAP experiments while revising this manuscript. As noted in Figure 5, we have been able to scale this work down to work on plates with ~10x fewer cells than with our initial experiments. This is on top of the initial DNA OMAP work in Figure 1 and 2, as well as our additional work in Figure 4, where we are using 30-60 million cells in solutions which is still 10x less material than previous work (PMID: 29735997). Thus, the newest DNA OMAP platform uses ~100x fewer cells than previous work.

      (5) Comments like "Compared to other repetitive elements in the human genome...." appear to circumvent the fact that this method is still (apparently) largely limited to repetitive elements. Other than Glopro, which did analyze non-repetitive promoter elements, most comparable methods looked at telomeres. So, this isn't quite the advancement you are implying. Plus, the overlap with telomeric proteins and other studies should be addressed. However, that will be challenging due to the controls used here, discussed above.

      As noted above, we have added Figures 4 and 5 to address the reviewer concerns by targeting multiple non-repetitive loci (HOXA and HOXB clusters and a 4.5Mb region straddling X-inactivation center on both the active and inactive X homolog). Targeting the regions around the X-inactivation center shows the potential to perform haplotype-resolved proteome analysis of chromatin interactors.

      For the telomeric protein overlap, we tried to do this specifically in Figure 1F, we agree with the reviewer that the controls used dramatically change the proteins considered enriched. The goal of the network analysis was to show (1) that we identify proteins previously observed in telomere proteomic datasets and (2) that we gain a more complete view of proteins based on capturing more known interacting proteins than many previous methods as was noted for the RNA OMAP platform (PMID: 39468212). For example, we observed enrichment of PRPF40A in the telomeric DNA OMAP data. From the Bioplex interactome, PRPF40A was observed to interact with TERF2IP and TERF2, suggesting that through these interactions PRPF40A may colocalize at telomeres. Similarly, we observed enrichment of SF3A1, SF3B1, and SF3B2. The SF3 proteins are known regulators of telomere maintenance (PMID: 27818134), but have not previously been observed in telomeric proteomics datasets, except now in DNA OMAP.

      We have added the following text to the Results to clarify these points:

      “To benchmark DNA O-MAP, we compared the full set of telomeric proteins to proteins observed in five established telomeric datasets (PICh, C-BERST, CAPLOCUS, CAPTURE, BioID)12,14,16,35,36 (Figure 1F). DNA O-MAP captured both previously observed telomeric interacting proteins (shelterins) as well as telomere associated proteins (ribonucleoproteins). We identified multiple heterogeneous nuclear ribonucleoproteins (hnRNPs) previously annotated as telomere-associated, including HNRNPA1 and HNRNPU. HNRNPA1 has been demonstrated to displace replication protein A (RPA) and directly interact with single-stranded telomeric DNA to regulate telomerase activity37–39. HNRNPU belongs to the telomerase-associated proteome40 where it binds the telomeric G-quadruplex to prevent RPA from recognizing chromosome ends41. We mapped DNA O-MAP enriched telomeric proteins to the BioPlex protein interactome and observed that in addition to capturing proteins from previously observed telomeric datasets (Figure 1F), DNA O-MAP enriched for interactors of previously observed telomeric proteins. Previous data found RBM17 and SNRPA1 at telomeres, and in BioPlex these proteins interact with three SF3 proteins (SF3A1, SF3B1, SF3B2). Though they were not identified in previous telomeric proteome datasets, all three of these SF3 proteins were enriched in the DNA O-MAP telomeric data. Furthermore, through interactions with G-quadruplex binding factors, these SF3 proteins are regulators of telomere maintenance (PMID: 27818134). Taken together, this data supports the effectiveness of DNA O-MAP for sensitively and selectively isolating loci-specific proteomes.”

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary

      Liu and MacGann et al. introduce the method DNA O-MAP that uses oligo-based ISH probes to recruit horseradish peroxidase for targeted proximity biotinylation at specific DNA loci. The method's specificity was tested by profiling the proteomic composition at repetitive DNA loci such as telomeres and pericentromeric alpha satellite repeats. In addition, the authors provide proof-of-principle for the capture and mapping of contact frequencies between individual DNA loop anchors.

      Strengths

      Identifying locus-specific proteomes still represents a major technical challenge and remains an outstanding issue (1). Theoretically, this method could benefit from the specificity of ISH probes and be applied to identify proteomes at non-repetitive DNA loci. This method also requires significantly fewer cells than other ISH- or dCas9-based locus-enrichment methods. Another potential advantage to be tested is the lack of cell line engineering that allows its application to primary cell lines or tissue.

      We thank the reviewers for their comments and note that we have followed up on the idea of targeting non-repetitive DNA loci (HOXA and HOXB clusters and a 4.5Mb section of the X chromosome on each homolog) in the revised manuscript (Figures 4 and 5).

      Weaknesses

      The authors indicate that DNA O-MAP is superior to other methods for identifying locus-specific proteomes. Still, no proof exists that this method could uncover proteomes at non-repetitive DNA loci. Also, there is very little validation of novel factors to confirm the superiority of the technique regarding specificity.

      Our primary claim for DNA OMAP is that it requires orders of magnitude fewer cells than previous studies. Based on comments along these lines from both reviewers, we performed DNA OMAP targeting non-repetitive DNA loci (HOXA and HOXB clusters and a 4.5Mb section of the X chromosome on each homolog) in the revised manuscript (Figure 4 and 5). For the X chromosome targeting, we used ~3 million cells per condition with methods that we optimized during revision. When targeting HOXA and HOXA, we were able to identify HDAC3 and TCF12 enrichment at HOXB compared to HOXA as well as ZC3H13 and SMARB1 enrichment at HOXA compared to HOXB, which is consistent with ChIP-seq reads from ENCODE for these proteins (Figure 4C, D). Both the HOXand X chromosome work help to address limitations noted in the Gauchier et al. paper the reviewer notes as both show progress towards overcoming “the major signal-to-noise ratio problem will need to be addressed before they can fully describe the specific composition of single-copy loci”.

      The authors first tested their method's specificity at repetitive telomeric regions, and like other approaches, expected low-abundant telomere-specific proteins were absent (for example, all subunits of the telomerase holoenzyme complex). Detecting known proteins while identifying noncanonical and unexpected protein factors with high confidence could indicate that DNA O-MAP does not fully capture biologically crucial proteins due to insufficient enrichment of locus-specific factors. The newly identified proteins in Figure 1E might still be relevant, but independent validation is missing entirely. In my opinion, the current data cannot be interpreted as successfully describing local protein composition.

      We analyzed ChIP-seq reads for our HOXA and HOXB (Figure 4C,D) which recapitulate our findings for four of our differentially enriched proteins. We also note that with the addition of the nonrepetitive loci (Figures 4 and 5), we have performed DNA OMAP on seven different targets (telomeres, pericentromeres, mitoDNA, HOXA, HOXB, Xi, and Xa) and identified expected targets at each of these. The consistency of these data, which mirrors the consistency of the RNA implementation of OMAP (PMID: 39468212), reinforces that we can successfully enrich local proteomes at genomic loci.

      Finally, the authors could have discussed the limitations of DNA O-MAP and made a fair comparison to other existing methods (2-5). Unlike targeted proximity biotinylation methods, DNA O-MAP requires paraformaldehyde crosslinking, which has several disadvantages. For instance, transient protein-protein interactions may not be efficiently retained on crosslinked chromatin. Similarly, some proteins may not be crosslinked by formaldehyde and thus will be lost during preparation (6).

      Based on this critique we have gone back through the manuscript to improve the fairness of our comparisons and expanded the limitations in our discussion section.

      To the point about fixation, Schmiedeberg et al., which the reviewer references, does describe crosslinking requiring longer interactions (~5 s). Yet, as featured in reviews, many additional studies have found that “it has been possible to perform ChIP on transcription factors whose interactions with chromatin are known from imaging studies to be highly transient” (Review PMID: 26354429). We note similar results in proteomics analysis in Subbotin and Chait that state that the linkage of lysine-based fixatives like formaldehyde and “glutaraldehyde to reactive amines within the cellular milieu were sufficient to preserve even labile and transient interactions (PMID: 25172955).

      (1) Gauchier M, van Mierlo G, Vermeulen M, Dejardin J. Purification and enrichment of specific chromatin loci. Nat Methods. 2020;17(4):380-9.

      (2) Dejardin J, Kingston RE. Purification of proteins associated with specific genomic Loci. Cell. 2009;136(1):175-86.

      (3) Liu X, Zhang Y, Chen Y, Li M, Zhou F, Li K, et al. In Situ Capture of Chromatin Interactions by Biotinylated dCas9. Cell. 2017;170(5):1028-43 e19.

      (4) Villasenor R, Pfaendler R, Ambrosi C, Butz S, Giuliani S, Bryan E, et al. ChromID identifies the protein interactome at chromatin marks. Nat Biotechnol. 2020;38(6):728-36.

      (5) Santos-Barriopedro I, van Mierlo G, Vermeulen M. Off-the-shelf proximity biotinylation for interaction proteomics. Nat Commun. 2021;12(1):5015.

      (6) Schmiedeberg L, Skene P, Deaton A, Bird A. A temporal threshold for formaldehyde crosslinking and fixation. PLoS One. 2009;4(2):e4636.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Significance of the Findings:

      The study by Liu et al. presents a novel method, DNA-O-MAP, which combines locus-specific hybridisation with proximity biotinylation to isolate specific genomic regions and their associated proteins. The potential significance of this approach lies in its purported ability to target genomic loci with heightened specificity by enabling extensive washing prior to the biotinylation reaction, theoretically improving the signal-to-noise ratio when compared with other methods such as dCas9-based techniques. Should the method prove successful, it could represent a notable advancement in the field of chromatin biology, particularly in establishing the proteomes of individual chromatin regions - an extremely challenging objective that has not yet been comprehensively addressed by existing methodologies.

      Strength of the Evidence:

      The evidence presented by the authors is somewhat mixed, and the robustness of the findings appears to be preliminary at this stage. While certain data indicate that DNA-O-MAP may function effectively for repetitive DNA regions, a number of the claims made in the manuscript are either unsupported or require further substantiation. There are significant concerns about the resolution of the method, with substantial biotinylation signals extending well beyond the intended target regions (megabases around the target), suggesting a lack of specificity and poor resolution, particularly for smaller loci.

      We thank the reviewers for their comments and note that we have followed up on the idea of targeting non-repetitive DNA loci (HOX clusters and part of the X chromosome) in the revised manuscript (Figures 4 and 5).

      Furthermore, comparisons with previous techniques are unfounded since the authors have not provided direct comparisons with the same mass spectrometry (MS) equipment and protocols. Additionally, although the authors assert an advantage in multiplexing, this claim appears overstated, as previous methods could achieve similar outcomes through TMT multiplexing. Therefore, while the method has potential, the evidence requires more rigorous support, comprehensive benchmarking, and further experimental validation to demonstrate the claimed improvements in specificity and practical applicability.

      We have made the comparisons as best as possible. In fact, we found it difficult to find examples of recent implementations of many of these methods. Purchasing the exact mass spectrometers or performing every version of chromatin proteomics would be well beyond the scope of this work. On the other hand, OMAP has already generated data for three manuscripts. We are making the claim that using the instrumentation and methods available to us, we were able to reduce the number of cells required to analyze a given genomic loci. We then applied TMT multiplexing to further improve the throughput and perform replicate analyses. To fully validate that one protein exists at one loci and no other would require exhaustive atlasing of protein-genomic interactions which would be well beyond the scope of this single paper. Similarly, ChIP for every target identified to assess an empirical FDR would be well beyond the scope of this work.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewing Editor Comments:

      In summary, all three reviewers raised major concerns about the limitations of the method, many of which could be resolved by more precise and transparent language about these limitations. If you choose to resubmit a revised version, you should address questions like: What scale does "individual locus" refer to? At what scale can the method map protein-DNA interactions at individual targeted loci, rather than large repetitive domains? What is the estimated false discovery rate for a set of enriched proteins? The eLife assessment for this version of the manuscript is based on reviewer concerns. Note that this assessment can be updated after receiving a response to reviewer comments.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1)The first couple of paragraphs make it sound like your method would exclusively benefit from sample multiplexing with MS-based proteomics. That is a bit misleading. The other stated methods use TMT. They don't use it to compare very different genomic (or compartmental) regions, but there is no reason cberst, glopro or CasID could not.

      A good point and we have updated the manuscript to reflect this. While previous methods generally did not use TMT, they could be adapted to do so and, similar to OMAP, improved by the use of more replicates in their analyses.

      (2) Please make the colors in 1F for the dataset overlap easier to read. 2 and 4+ are too similar.

      We appreciate the comment on making the colors easier to discern. Along these lines we’ve changed the color of “2” to make it easier to distinguish from “4+”.

      (3) Label as many dots as legible in your volcano plots.

      We’ve labeled a number of proteins that are relevant to the discussion in this paper as well as some additional proteins. We feel that additional labeling would detract from the points that we are trying to make in individual figure panels about groups of proteins, rather than general remodeling of all proteins.

      (4) Figure 2E needs a divergent color scheme since it crosses 0. And is it scaled, log-transformed, or both? And compared to what then?

      Figure 2E (heatmap) is z-scaled relative protein abundance measurements based on TMTpro reporter ion signal to noise (“s/n”). We have added additional information to the legend to highlight the information that the reviewer points out here. For the color, we are unsure of what is being asked for, as above 0 is red and below 0 is blue.

      (5) Unclear what you are implying with "...only 1-2 biological replicates." I would omit or clarify.

      Fair point, we have updated the manuscript to omit this section to simplify the introduction.

      (6) H2O2 and biotin phenols might be toxic to living organisms. But so is 4% PFA and ISH. I realize you are trying to justify your new approach but you don't need to do it with exaggerated contrasts. This O-MAP is a great approach and probably more likely for people to adopt it because it's DNA ISH based. Plus, with the clinking, you are likely not displacing proteins via Cas9 landing.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comments about adoption and lack of protein displacement. We’ve scaled back on the claims and added more about limitations owing to crosslinking and ISH.

      (7) How much genome does the Cent regions take up? You state 500 kb for Telos.

      In the text we delineate how large of a region the PanAlpha probes target “The genome-wide binding profile of the pan-alpha probe closely overlaps with centromeres (Figure S1) and covers approximately 35 Mb of the genome according to in silico predictions.” Additionally, we’ve added Table S4 to summarize target locus sizes for all of the included targets.

      (8) You seem to be underestimating the lysine labeling. Is that after TMT labeling and analysis? If so, you're already ignoring what couldn't be seen. I don't think it's that important but you included it, so please describe clearly why it's an issue and how much of an issue it is. How does that relate to lit values? And it's not just TMTpro, it's any lysine labeler.

      We appreciate the reviewers point about specifying the reasoning and the lack of clarity around overall lysine labeling. That 1.38% is the number of peptides with remainder modifications due to formaldehyde crosslinking. For overall acylation of lysines with TMT labels, we generally expect (and achieve) >97% labeling of lysines with TMT reagents as the Kuster and Carr labs nicely demonstrated across a range of labeling conditions (PMID: 30967486).

      Decrosslinking is a critical step generally for proteomics workflows on fixed or FFPE tissues and thus we sought to explore whether we could achieve sufficiently low residual lysine alkylation to enable protein quantitation by TMTpro reagents (or any lysine labeler, as the reviewer notes). For TMTpro-based methods on peptides, this is less of a concern generally as protease cleavage frees new primary amines at the N-termini of peptides which can be labeled for quantitation. But in part since we are describing a proteomics method on fixed tissues we wanted to share these data and the potential inclusion of residual fixation modifications for readers to potentially take into consideration when performing this method.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Liu et al. describe an original locus labelling approach that enables the isolation of specific genomic regions and their associated proteins. I have mixed views on this work, which, in my opinion, remains preliminary at this stage. Establishing the proteome of a single chromatin region is one of the most complex challenges in chromatin biology, as extensively discussed in Gauchier et al. (2020). Any breakthrough towards this goal is of significant interest to the community, making this manuscript potentially compelling. Indeed, some data suggest that the method works for repetitive DNA to some extent. However, much of the data is not very convincing, and in the case of small DNA targets, it argues against the use of DNA-O-MAP.

      In contrast to existing methods, DNA-O-MAP combines locus-specific hybridisation in situ (using affordable oligonucleotides) with proximity biotinylation. A major advantage of this strategy over other locus-specific biotinylation methods is the possibility of extensively washing excess or non-specifically hybridised probes before the biotinylation reaction, theoretically limiting biotinylation to the target region and thus significantly enhancing the signal-to-noise ratio. Other methods involving proximity biotinylation, such as targeted dCas9, do not have this capacity, meaning biotinylation occurs not only at the locus where a small fraction of dCas9 molecules is targeted but also around non-bound dCas9 molecules (representing the vast majority of dCas9 expressed in a given cell). This aspect potentially represents an interesting advance.

      We thank the reviewer for their thoughts and critiques, which we hope have in part relieved concerns pertaining to limitation on repetitive elements. To the latter points, we confirmed this with new specificity analysis that showed labeling to be highly specific to a given probe locus (Figure S3).

      Below, I outline the significant issues:

      The manuscript implies that DNA-O-MAP has better sensitivity than earlier techniques like CAPTURE, GLOPRO, or PICh. The authors state that PICh uses one trillion cells (which I doubt is accurate), and other methods require 300 million cells, whereas DNA-O-MAP uses only 60 million cells, suggesting the latter is more feasible. However, these earlier experiments were conducted almost 15 and 6 years ago, when mass spectrometry (MS) sensitivity was considerably lower than that of current instruments. The authors cannot know whether the proteome obtained by previous methods using 60 million cells, but analysed with current MS technology, would yield results inferior to those of DNA-O-MAP. Unless the authors directly compare these methods using the same number of cells and identical MS setups, I find their argument unjustified and misleading.

      Based on the instrumentation listed, we actually do have a good idea of how sensitivity changes may have affected identifications and overall sensitivity. For example, the CASPEX data was collected on an Orbitrap Fusion Lumos, while our data was collected on an Orbitrap Fusion Eclipse. From our work characterizing these two instruments during the Eclipse development (PMID: 32250601), we do actually know that the ion optics improvements boosted sensitivity of the Eclipse used in our work compared to the Lumos by ~50%, meaning if GLOPRO was run on an Eclipse it would still require >200 million cells per replicate for input.

      It is suggested that DNA-O-MAP is capable of 'multiplexing', whereas previous methods are not. This statement is also misleading. As I understand it, the targeted regions do not originate from a common pool of cells. Instead, TMT multiplexing only occurs after each group of cells has been independently labelled (Telo, Centro, Mito, control). Therefore, previous methods could also perform multiplexing with TMT. Moreover, it is unclear how each proteome was compared: one would expect many more proteins from centromeres than from telomeres (I am unsure about the number of mitochondria in these cells) since these regions are significantly larger than telomeres (possibly 10 to 100 times larger?). Have the authors attempted to normalise their proteomics data to the size (concatenated) of each target? This is particularly relevant when comparing histone enrichment at chromatin regions of differing sizes.

      We agree with the reviewers that this was overstated. In fact the GLOPRO paper notes that they performed a MYC analysis with a previous generation of TMT that could multiplex 10 samples. We have amended the manuscript to be more specific in those contexts. As stated in the methods section, “Samples were column normalized for total protein concentration”, to account for the amount of protein and size of the different targets.

      Figure 1C shows streptavidin dots resembling telomeres. To substantiate this claim, simultaneous immunofluorescence with a telomere-specific protein (e.g., TRF1 or TRF2) is required. It is currently unknown whether all or only a subset of telomeres are targeted by DNA-O-MAP, and it is also unclear if some streptavidin foci are non-telomeric. Quantification is needed to indicate the reproducibility of the labelling (the same comment applies to the centromere probes later in the manuscript; an immunofluorescence assay with CENPB would be informative, alongside quantifications).

      We understand the reviewer’s concern about specificity and reproducibility of DNA-O-MAP. To address this we have added analysis showing the efficiency and specificity of our FISH and biotin labeling for Telomere, PanAlpha, and Mitochondria targeting oligos (Figure S3). We found that biotin deposition was highly specific to the intended targets with an average across the three probes of 98% specificity.

      Perhaps more importantly, the authors suggest that it may be possible to enrich proteins that are not necessarily present at the target locus but are instead in spatial proximity (e.g., RNA polymerase I subunits enriched upon centromere targeting). Does this not undermine the purpose of retrieving locus-specific proteomes?

      The goal of DNA OMAP is to identify a local neighborhood of proteins around a specific genomic loci, similar to GLOPRO. As we note in the work presented in Figure 4 and 5 now, these neighborhoods are inherently interesting for comparison of quantitative changes that occur around a genomic locus.

      Possibly related to the previous issue, when DNA-O-MAP is used to assess DNA-DNA interactions, probes covering regions of 20-25 kb are employed. Therefore, one would expect these regions to be significantly biotinylated compared to flanking regions. However, Genome Browser screenshots indicate extensive biotinylation signals spanning several megabases around the 20-25 kb targets. If the method were highly resolutive, the target region would be primarily enriched, with possibly discrete lower enrichment at distant interacting regions. The lack of discrete enrichment suggests poor resolution, likely due to the likely large scale of proximity biotinylation. This compromises the effectiveness of DNA-O-MAP, especially if it is intended to target small loci with complex sequences. Could the authors quantify the absolute number of reads from the target region compared to those from elsewhere in the genome (both megabases around the locus and other chromosomes, where many co-enriched regions seem to exist)? This would provide insights into both enrichment and specificity.

      Thanks for this suggestion, we have included a new Figure S8 to look at normalized read depth as a function of distance from the genomic target. The resolution of DNA OMAP, like all peroxidase mediated proximity labeling methods, is not dependent on the sequence length of the DNA region, but the 30-40nm of physical space around the HRP molecule that is targeted to the genomic loci. 

      Minor Issues:

      (1) Page 3, second paragraph: It is unclear why probes producing a visible signal in situ necessarily translates to their ability to retrieve a specific proteome.

      We have revised the manuscript to de-emphasize the visible signal aspect of probe targeting and re-emphasize our initial point that the number of probes needed to properly target unique regions makes the use of locked nucleic acid probes cost-prohibitive. The basic point though, we and others previously showed with RNA OMAP (PMID: 39468212) and Apex/proximity labeling strategies, the ability to deposit biotin and visualize generally directly translates to recovery of proximally labeled proteins (PMID: 26866790).

      (2) Page 3, last paragraph: "to reach a higher degree of enrichment...": Has it been demonstrated that direct protein biotinylation provides higher enrichment of relevant proteins? Certainly, there is higher enrichment of proteins, but whether they are relevant is another matter.

      Our point here was that the methods using direct protein biotinylation have higher levels of enrichment and thus require less cells than the previously mentioned PICh method, which is why we wrote the following: “In the case of GLoPro, APEX-based proximity labeling enhanced protein detection sensitivity, reducing the input required for each replicate analysis to ~300 million cells—a 10-fold reduction in cell input compared to PICh which used 3 billion cells.”

      Regarding if these proteins are relevant or not, we show enrichment of known proteins that are critical to the function of their occupied genomic region at telomeres and centromeres. Additionally, we’ve made added quantitative comparisons to assess relevance in our analysis of Hox and our targeted region of the X chromosome through comparisons to ChIP data at these regions. The improved enrichment that we’ve established in our initial submission as well as in the updated version also means that we can further scale down the number of cells required.

      (3) Figure 2B is misleading; it appears as though all three regions are targeted in the same cell, suggesting true multiplexing, which, I believe, is not the case.

      To avoid any potential confusion about how the samples were derived we’ve updated this figure panel to show three separate cells, each with a different region being targeted.

      (3) If I understand correctly, the 'no probe' control should primarily retrieve endogenously biotinylated proteins (carboxylases), which are mainly found in mitochondria. Why does the Pearson clustering in Supplementary Figure 2 not place this control proteome closer to the mitochondrial proteome?

      Under the assumption that the ~10 carboxylases are biotinylated at the same levels in all cells, yet the proportion of these carboxylases compared to all enriched proteins for a given target is markedly reduced. Thus, as a proportion of the enriched proteome we note in Figure S4 that mitochondrial DNA OMAP enriches proteins besides the carboxylases. We believe this explains why the ‘no probe’ sample can be clearly separated along PC2 in Figure 2D.

      (4) Was CENPA enriched in the centromere DNA-O-MAP? If not, have the authors scaled up (e.g., with ten times more cells) to see if the local proteome becomes deeper and detects relevant low-abundance proteins like CENPA or HJURP? This would be very informative.

      We did not observe CENPA, and we had originally contemplated the experiment the reviewer suggested, but noted that CENPA has only two tryptic peptides (>7 AA, <35AA), and they are both in the commonly phosphorylated region of the protein. Rather than scale up these experiments, we decided to attempt DNA OMAP on the non-repetitive locus experiments.

      (5) Using a few million cells, I do not see how the starting chromatin amount could range from 0.5 to 7 mg, as shown in Figures 2 and 3. How were these figures calculated? One diploid cell contains approximately 6 pg of DNA/chromatin, which means one billion cells represent about 6 mg of DNA/chromatin (a typical measurement for these methods).

      Thanks to the reviewer for catching this, that should have been the total lysate amount, not chromatin mass. We have corrected Figures 2 and 3.

      (6) Figure S1: There is no indication of the metrics used for the shades of red.

      We have added a gradient legend to depict this.

      (7) What is the purpose of HCl in the experiment?

      HCl treatment was done to reduce autofluorescence for imaging (PMID: 39548245).

      (8) I could not find the MS dataset on the server using the provided accession number (PDX054080).

      Thank you for pointing this out, we have confirmed the dataset is public now and added the new datasets for the Xi/Xa and Hox studies. We also note that the accession should be “PXD054080”

      (9) Why desthiobiotin instead of biotin?

      We have tested both; desthiobiotin was helpful to reduce adsorption to surfaces. Either biotin or desthiobiotin can be used, though, for OMAP.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      General Statements

      We are delighted that all reviewers found our manuscript to be a technical advance by providing a much sought after method to arrest budding yeast cells in metaphase of mitosis or both meiotic metaphases. The reviewers also valued our use of this system to make new discoveries in two areas. First, we provided evidence that the spindle checkpoint is intrinsically weaker in meiosis I and showed that this is due to PP1 phosphatase. Second, we determined how the composition and phosphorylation of the kinetochore changes during meiosis, providing key insights into kinetochore function and providing a rich dataset for future studies.

      The reviewers also made some extremely helpful suggestions to improve our manuscript, which we will have now implemented:

      (1) Improvements to the discussion. Following the recommendation of the reviewers recommended we have focused our discussion on the novel findings of the manuscript and drawn out some key points of interest that deserve more attention.

      (2) We added a new Figure 5 to help interpret the mass spectrometry data, to address Reviewer #3, point 4.

      (3) We added a new additional control experiment to address the minor point 1 from reviewer #3. Our experiment to confirm that SynSAC relies on endogenous checkpoint proteins was missing the cell cycle profile of cells where SynSAC was not induced for comparison. We have performed this experiment and the new data is show as part of a new Figure 2.

      (4) We included representative images of spindle morphology as requested by Reviewer #1, point 2 in Figure1.

      Point-by-point description of the revisions

      Reviewer #1 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

      These authors have developed a method to induce MI or MII arrest. While this was previously possible in MI, the advantage of the method presented here is it works for MII, and chemically inducible because it is based on a system that is sensitive to the addition of ABA. Depending on when the ABA is added, they achieve a MI or MII delay. The ABA promotes dimerizing fragments of Mps1 and Spc105 that can't bind their chromosomal sites. The evidence that the MI arrest is weaker than the MII arrest is convincing and consistent with published data and indicating the SAC in MI is less robust than MII or mitosis. The authors use this system to find evidence that the weak MI arrest is associated with PP1 binding to Spc105. This is a nice use of the system.

      The remainder of the paper uses the SynSAC system to isolate populations enriched for MI or MII stages and conduct proteomics. This shows a powerful use of the system but more work is needed to validate these results, particularly in normal cells.

      Overall the most significant aspect of this paper is the technical achievement, which is validated by the other experiments. They have developed a system and generated some proteomics data that maybe useful to others when analyzing kinetochore composition at each division. Overall, I have only a few minor suggestions.

      We appreciate the reviewers’ support of our study.

      (1) In wild-type - Pds1 levels are high during M1 and A1, but low in MII. Can the authors comment on this? In line 217, what is meant by "slightly attenuated? Can the authors comment on how anaphase occurs in presence of high Pds1? There is even a low but significant level in MII.

      The higher levels of Pds1 in meiosis I compared to meiosis II has been observed previously using immunofluorescence and live imaging[1–3]. Although the reasons are not completely clear, we speculate that there is insufficient time between the two divisions to re-accumulate Pds1 prior to separase re-activation. We added the following sentence at Line 218: “ In wild-type cells, Pds1 levels are higher in meiosis I than in meiosis II, likely because the interval between the divisions is too short to allow Pds1 reaccumulation [1,2,4]. This pattern was also observed in SynSAC strains in the absence of ABA (Figure 3A).

      We agree “slightly attenuated” was confusing and we have re-worded this sentence to read “However, ABA addition at the time of prophase release resulted in Pds1<sup>securin</sup> stabilisation throughout the time course, consistent with delays in both metaphase I and II”. (Line 225).

      We do not believe that either anaphase I or II occur in the presence of high Pds1. Western blotting represents the amount of Pds1 in the population of cells at a given time point. The time between meiosis I and II is very short even when treated with ABA. For example, in Figure 2B (now Figure 3B), spindle morphology counts show that at 105 minutes, 40% of cells had anaphase I spindles (and will be Pds1 negative), while ~20% had metaphase I and ~20% metaphase II spindles (and will be Pds1 positive). In contrast, due to the better efficiency of the meiosis II arrest, anaphase II hardly occurs at all in these conditions, since anaphase II spindles (and the second nuclear division) are observed at very low frequency (maximum 10%) from 165 minutes onwards. Instead, metaphase II spindles partially or fully breakdown, without undergoing anaphase extension. Taking Pds1 levels from the western blot and the spindle data together leads to the conclusion that at the end of the time-course, these cells are biochemically in metaphase II, but unable to maintain a robust spindle. Spindle collapse is also observed in other situations where meiotic exit fails, and potentially reflects an uncoupling of the cell cycle from the programme governing gamete differentiation[3,5,6]. We re-wrote this section as follows. (Line 222).

      “Note that Pds1 levels do not fully decline in this population-based analysis as the short duration of meiotic stages results in a mixed-stage population. For example, at the anaphase I peak (90 minutes) around 30% of cells remain in prior stages in which Pds1 levels are expected to be high. However, ABA addition at the time of prophase release resulted in Pds1<sup>securin</sup> stabilisation throughout the time course, consistent with delays in both metaphase I and metaphase II. (Figure 3B). Anaphase I spindles nevertheless appeared with delayed kinetics, peaking at ~40% at 105 min. Concurrently, ~40% of cells remained in metaphase I or II and were therefore Pds1-positive, accounting for the persistent Pds1 signal on the western blot. In contrast, anaphase II spindles are observed at low frequency (maximum 10%) from 165 minutes onwards because metaphase II spindles give way to post-meiotic spindles, without undergoing anaphase II extension (Figure 1D).”

      (2) The figures with data characterizing the system are mostly graphs showing time course of MI and MII. There is no cytology, which is a little surprising since the stage is determined by spindle morphology. It would help to see sample sizes (ie. In the Figure legends) and also representative images. It would also be nice to see images comparing the same stage in the SynSAC cells versus normal cells. Are there any differences in the morphology of the spindles or chromosomes when in the SynSAC system?

      We have now included representative images as Figure 1D along with a schematic Figure 1C. This shows that there are no differences in spindle morphology or nuclei (chromosomes cannot be observed at this resolution), except of course the number of cells with a particular spindle morphology at a given time. We added the following text confirming that there is no change in spindle morphology (Line 174). “We scored spindle morphology after anti-tubulin immunofluorescence to determine cell cycle stage (Figure 1C). Prophase, metaphase I, anaphase I, metaphase II, anaphase II and post-meiotic spindles appeared successively over the timecourse in both the absence and presence of ABA (Figure 1D). While SynSAC dimerisation did not alter characteristic spindle morphologies, it changed their distribution over time.”

      The number of cells scored (at least 100 cells per timepoint) is given in the figure legends.

      (3) A possible criticism of this system could be that the SAC signal promoting arrest is not coming from the kinetochore. Are there any possible consequences of this? In vertebrate cells, the RZZ complex streams off the kinetochore. Yeast don't have RZZ but this is an example of something that is SAC dependent and happens at the kinetochore. Can the authors discuss possible limitations such as this? Does the inhibition of the APC effect the native kinetochores? This could be good or bad. A bad possibility is that the cell is behaving as if it is in MII, but the kinetochores have made their microtubule attachments and behave as if in anaphase.

      In our view, the fact that SynSAC does not come from kinetochores is a major advantage as this allows the study of the kinetochore in an unperturbed state. It is also important to note that the canonical checkpoint components are all still present in the SynSAC strains, and perturbations in kinetochore-microtubule interactions would be expected to mount a kinetochore-driven checkpoint response as normal. Indeed, it would be interesting in future work to understand how disrupting kinetochore-microtubule attachments alters kinetochore composition (presumably checkpoint proteins will be recruited) and phosphorylation but this is beyond the scope of this work. In terms of the state at which we are arresting cells – this is a true metaphase because cohesion has not been lost but kinetochore-microtubule attachments have been established. This is evident from the enrichment of microtubule regulators but not checkpoint proteins in the kinetochore purifications from metaphase I and II. While this state is expected to occur only transiently in yeast, since the establishment of proper kinetochore-microtubule attachments triggers anaphase onset, the ability to capture this properly bioriented state will be extremely informative for future studies. We acknowledge however that we cannot completely rule out unwanted effects of the system, as in any synchronisation system, and where possible findings with the system should be backed up with an orthogonal approach. We appreciate the reviewers’ insight in highlighting these interesting discussion points and we have re-written the relevant paragraph in the discussion, starting line 545.

      Reviewer #1 (Significance):

      These authors have developed a method to induce MI or MII arrest. While this was previously possible in MI, the advantage of the method presented here is it works for MII, and chemically inducible because it is based on a system that is sensitive to the addition of ABA. Depending on when the ABA is added, they achieve a MI or MII delay. The ABA promotes dimerizing fragments of Mps1 and Spc105 that can't bind their chromosomal sites. The evidence that the MI arrest is weaker than the MII arrest is convincing and consistent with published data and indicating the SAC in MI is less robust than MII or mitosis. The authors use this system to find evidence that the weak MI arrest is associated with PP1 binding to Spc105. This is a nice use of the system.

      The remainder of the paper uses the SynSAC system to isolate populations enriched for MI or MII stages and conduct proteomics. This shows a powerful use of the system but more work is needed to validate these results, particularly in normal cells.

      Overall the most significant aspect of this paper is the technical achievement, which is validated by the other experiments. They have developed a system and generated some proteomics data that maybe useful to others when analyzing kinetochore composition at each division.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s enthusiasm for our work.

      Reviewer #2 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

      The manuscript submitted by Koch et al. describes a novel approach to collect budding yeast cells in metaphase I or metaphase II by synthetically activating the spinde checkpoint (SAC). The arrest is transient and reversible. This synchronization strategy will be extremely useful for studying meiosis I and meiosis II, and compare the two divisions. The authors characterized this so-named syncSACapproach and could confirm previous observations that the SAC arrest is less efficient in meiosis I than in meiosis II. They found that downregulation of the SAC response through PP1 phosphatase is stronger in meiosis I than in meiosis II. The authors then went on to purify kinetochore-associated proteins from metaphase I and II extracts for proteome and phosphoproteome analysis. Their data will be of significant interest to the cell cycle community (they compared their datasets also to kinetochores purified from cells arrested in prophase I and -with SynSAC in mitosis).

      I have only a couple of minor comments:

      (1) I would add the Suppl Figure 1A to main Figure 1A. What is really exciting here is the arrest in metaphase II, so I don't understand why the authors characterize metaphase I in the main figure, but not metaphase II. But this is only a suggestion.

      Thanks for the suggestion. We agree and have moved the data for both meiosis I and meiosis II to make a new main Figure 2.

      (2) Line 197, the authors state: ...SyncSACinduced a more pronounced delay in metaphase II than in metaphase I. However, line 229 and 240 the auhtors talk about a "longer delay in metaphase <i compared to metaphase II"... this seems to be a mix-up.

      Thank you for pointing this out, this is indeed a typo and we have corrected it.

      (3) The authors describe striking differences for both protein abundance and phosphorylation for key kinetochore associated proteins. I found one very interesting protein that seems to be very abundant and phosphorylated in metaphase I but not metaphase II, namely Sgo1. Do the authors think that Sgo1 is not required in metaphase II anymore? (Top hit in suppl Fig 8D).

      This is indeed an interesting observation, which we plan to investigate as part of another study in the future. Indeed, data from mouse indicates that shugoshin-dependent cohesin deprotection is already absent in meiosis II in mouse oocytes7, though whether this is also true in yeast is not known. Furthermore, this does not rule out other functions of Sgo1 in meiosis II (for example promoting biorientation). We have included a paragraph in the discussion in the section starting line 641.

      Reviewer #2 (Significance):

      The technique described here will be of great interest to the cell cycle community. Furthermore, the authors provide data sets on purified kinetochores of different meiotic stages and compare them to mitosis. This paper will thus be highly cited, for the technique, and also for the application of the technique.

      Reviewer #3 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

      In their manuscript, Koch et al. describe a novel strategy to synchronize cells of the budding yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae in metaphase I and metaphase II, thereby facilitating comparative analyses between these meiotic stages. This approach, termed SynSAC, adapts a method previously developed in fission yeast and human cells that enables the ectopic induction of a synthetic spindle assembly checkpoint (SAC) arrest by conditionally forcing the heterodimerization of two SAC components upon addition of the plant hormone abscisic acid (ABA). This is a valuable tool, which has the advantage that induces SAC-dependent inhibition of the anaphase promoting complex without perturbing kinetochores. Furthermore, since the same strategy and yeast strain can be also used to induce a metaphase arrest during mitosis, the methodology developed by Koch et al. enables comparative analyses between mitotic and meiotic cell divisions. To validate their strategy, the authors purified kinetochores from meiotic metaphase I and metaphase II, as well as from mitotic metaphase, and compared their protein composition and phosphorylation profiles. The results are presented clearly and in an organized manner.

      We are grateful to the reviewer for their support.

      Despite the relevance of both the methodology and the comparative analyses, several main issues should be addressed:

      (1) In contrast to the strong metaphase arrest induced by ABA addition in mitosis (Supp. Fig. 2), the SynSAC strategy only promotes a delay in metaphase I and metaphase II as cells progress through meiosis. This delay extends the duration of both meiotic stages, but does not markedly increase the percentage of metaphase I or II cells in the population at a given timepoint of the meiotic time course (Fig. 1C). Therefore, although SynSAC broadens the time window for sample collection, it does not substantially improve differential analyses between stages compared with a standard NDT80 prophase block synchronization experiment. Could a higher ABA concentration or repeated hormone addition improve the tightness of the meiotic metaphase arrest?

      For many purposes the enrichment and extended time for sample collection is sufficient, as we demonstrate here. However, as pointed out by the reviewer below, the system can be improved by use of the 4A-RASA mutations to provide a stronger arrest (see our response below). We did not experiment with higher ABA concentrations or repeated addition since the very robust arrest achieved with the 4A-RASA mutant deemed this unnecessary.

      (2) Unlike the standard SynSAC strategy, introducing mutations that prevent PP1 binding to the SynSAC construct considerably extended the duration of the meiotic metaphase arrests. In particular, mutating PP1 binding sites in both the RVxF (RASA) and the SILK (4A) motifs of the Spc105(1-455)-PYL construct caused a strong metaphase I arrest that persisted until the end of the meiotic time course (Fig. 3A). This stronger and more prolonged 4A-RASA SynSAC arrest would directly address the issue raised above. It is unclear why the authors did not emphasize more this improved system. Indeed, the 4A-RASA SynSAC approach could be presented as the optimal strategy to induce a conditional metaphase arrest in budding yeast meiosis, since it not only adapts but also improves the original methods designed for fission yeast and human cells. Along the same lines, it is surprising that the authors did not exploit the stronger arrest achieved with the 4A-RASA mutant to compare kinetochore composition at meiotic metaphase I and II.

      We agree that the 4A-RASA mutant is the best tool to use for the arrest and going forward this will be our approach. We collected the proteomics data and the data on the SynSAC mutant variants concurrently, so we did not know about the improved arrest at the time the proteomics experiment was done. Because very good arrest was already achieved with the unmutated SynSAC construct, we could not justify repeating the proteomics experiment which is a large amount of work using significant resources. We highlighted the potential of using the 4A-RASA variant more strongly as follows:

      Line 312, Results:

      “These findings also indicate that spc105<sup>(1-455)</sup>-4A-RASA is the preferred SynSAC variant, particularly where metaphase I arrest is the goal.”

      Line 598, Discussion: “Finally, the stronger and more prolonged SynSAC arrest obtained using the PP1 binding site mutant spc105<sup>(1-455)</sup>-4A-RASA prompts its consideration as an alternative tool for future studies, particularly where meiosis I arrest is important. At the time of performing the kinetochore immunoprecipitations, these mutations were not yet available but, as we have demonstrated, wild type SynSAC protein fragments nevertheless yielded sufficiently enriched populations of metaphase I and II cells to allow reliable detection of stage-specific kinetochore proteins and phosphorylations. Going forward, however, we consider SynSAC-4A-RASA to be the optimal tool for inducing metaphase arrests.”

      (3) The results shown in Supp. Fig. 4C are intriguing and merit further discussion. Mitotic growth in ABA suggest that the RASA mutation silences the SynSAC effect, yet this was not observed for the 4A or the double 4A-RASA mutants. Notably, in contrast to mitosis, the SynSAC 4A-RASA mutation leads to a more pronounced metaphase I meiotic delay (Fig. 3A). It is also noteworthy that the RVAF mutation partially restores mitotic growth in ABA. This observation supports, as previously demonstrated in human cells, that Aurora B-mediated phosphorylation of S77 within the RVSF motif is important to prevent PP1 binding to Spc105 in budding yeast as well.

      We agree these are intriguing findings that highlight key differences as to the wiring of the spindle checkpoint in meiosis and mitosis and potential for future studies, however, currently we can only speculate as to the underlying cause. The effect of the RASA mutation in mitosis is unexpected and unexplained. However, the fact that the 4A-RASA mutation causes a stronger delay in meiosis I compared to mitosis can be explained by a greater prominence of PP1 phosphatase in meiosis. Indeed, our data (now Figure 7A) show that the PP1 phosphatase Glc7 and its regulatory subunit Fin1 are highly enriched on kinetochores at all meiotic stages compared to mitosis.

      We agree that the improved growth of the RVAF mutant is intriguing, along with the reduced metaphase I delay, which together point to a role of Aurora B-mediated phosphorylation also in S. cerevisiae, though previous work has not supported such a role [8].

      We have re-written and expanded the paragraph in the discussion related to the mutation of the RVSF motif starting line 564 to reflect these points.

      (4) To demonstrate the applicability of the SynSAC approach, the authors immunoprecipitated the kinetochore protein Dsn1 from cells arrested at different meiotic or mitotic stages, and compared kinetochore composition using data independent acquisition (DIA) mass spectrometry. Quantification and comparative analyses of total and kinetochore protein levels were conducted in parallel for cells expressing either FLAG-tagged or untagged Dsn1 (Supp. Fig. 7A-B). To better detect potential changes, protein abundances were next scaled to Dsn1 levels in each sample (Supp. Fig. 7C-D). However, it is not clear why the authors did not normalize protein abundance in the immunoprecipitations from tagged samples at each stage to the corresponding untagged control, instead of performing a separate analysis. This would be particularly relevant given the high sensitivity of DIA mass spectrometry, which enabled quantification of thousands of proteins. Furthermore, the authors compared protein abundances in tagged-samples from mitotic metaphase and meiotic prophase, metaphase I and metaphase II (Supp. Fig. 7E-F). If protein amounts in each case were not normalized to the untagged controls, as inferred from the text (lines 333 to 338), the observed differences could simply reflect global changes in protein expression at different stages rather than specific differences in protein association to kinetochores.

      While we agree with the reviewer that at first glance, normalising to no tag appears to be the most appropriate normalisation, in practice there is very low background signal in the no tag sample which means that any random fluctuations have a big impact on the final fold change used for normalisation. This approach therefore introduces artefacts into the data rather than improving normalisation.

      To provide reassurance that our kinetochore immunoprecipitations are specific, and that the background (no tag) signal is indeed very low, we have provided a new figure showing the volcanos comparing kinetochore purifications at each stage with their corresponding no tag control (Figure 5).

      It is also important to note that our experiment looks at relative changes of the same protein over time, which we expect to be relatively small in the whole cell lysate. We previously documented proteins that change in abundance in whole cell lysates throughout meiosis9. In this study, we found that relatively few proteins significantly change in abundance. We added a sentence to this effect in the discussion (Line 632). “Although some variation could reflect global changes in protein abundance during meiosis, we previously found that only a few proteins undergo dynamic abundance changes during the meiotic divisions [9], so this is unlikely to fully explain the kinetochore composition differences observed.”

      Our aim in the current study was to understand how the relative composition of the kinetochore changes and for this, we believe that a direct comparison to Dsn1, a central kinetochore protein which we immunoprecipitated is the most appropriate normalisation.

      (5) Despite the large amount of potentially valuable data generated, the manuscript focuses mainly on results that reinforce previously established observations (e.g., premature SAC silencing in meiosis I by PP1, changes in kinetochore composition, etc.). The discussion would benefit from a deeper analysis of novel findings that underscore the broader significance of this study.

      We strongly agree with this point and we have re-framed the discussion to focus on the novel findings, as also raised by the other reviewers and noted above.

      Finally, minor concerns are:

      (1) Meiotic progression in SynSAC strains lacking Mad1, Mad2 or Mad3 is severely affected (Fig. 1D and Supp. Fig. 1), making it difficult to assess whether, as the authors state, the metaphase delays depend on the canonical SAC cascade. In addition, as a general note, graphs displaying meiotic time courses could be improved for clarity (e.g., thinner data lines, addition of axis gridlines and external tick marks, etc.).

      We added the requested data, which is now part of Figure 2. This now clearly shows that mad2 and mad3 mutants have very similar meiotic cell cycle profiles in the SynSAC background whether or not ABA is added. Please note that we removed the mad1 mutant from this analysis as technical difficulties prevented the strain from entering meiosis well.

      We have improved graphs throughout, as suggested: data lines are thinner, axis gridlines and external grid marks are included. We added an arrow to indicate the time of ethanol/ABA addition.

      (2) Spore viability following SynSAC induction in meiosis was used as an indicator that this experimental approach does not disrupt kinetochore function and chromosome segregation. However, this is an indirect measure. Direct monitoring of genome distribution using GFP-tagged chromosomes would have provided more robust evidence. Notably, the SynSAC mad3Δ mutant shows a slight viability defect, which might reflect chromosome segregation defects that are more pronounced in the absence of a functional SAC.

      Spore viability is a much more sensitive way of analysing segregation defects that GFP-labelled chromosomes. This is because GFP labelling allows only a single chromosome to be followed. On the other hand, if any of the 16 chromosomes mis-segregate in a given meiosis this would result in one or more aneuploid spores in the tetrad, which are typically inviable. The fact that spore viability is not significantly different from wild type in this analysis indicates that there are no major chromosome segregation defects in these strains, and we therefore we think this experiment unnecessary.

      (3) It is surprising that, although SAC activity is proposed to be weaker in metaphase I, the levels of CPC/SAC proteins seem to be higher at this stage of meiosis than in metaphase II or mitotic metaphase (Fig. 4A-B).

      We speculate that the challenge in biorienting homologs which are held together by chiasmata, rather than back-to-back kinetochores results in a greater requirement for dynamic error correction in meiosis I. Interestingly, the data with the RASA mutant also point to increased PP1 activity in meiosis I, and we additionally observed increased levels of PP1 (Glc7 and Fin1) on meiotic kinetochores, consistent with the idea that cycles of error correction and silencing are elevated in meiosis I. We have re-written and expanded the discussion section starting line 565 to reflect these points.

      (4) Although a more detailed exploration of kinetochore composition or phosphorylation changes is beyond the scope of the manuscript, some key observations could have been validated experimentally (e.g., enrichment of proteins at kinetochores, phosphorylation events that were identified as specific or enriched at a certain meiotic stage, etc.).

      We agree that this is beyond the scope of the current study but will form the start of future projects from our group, and hopefully others.

      (5) Several typographical errors should be corrected (e.g., "Kinvetochores" in Fig. 4 legend, "250uM ABA" in Supp. Fig. 1 legend, etc.)

      Thank you for pointing these out, they have been corrected and we have carefully proofread the manuscript.

      Reviewer #3 (Significance):

      Koch et al. describe a novel methodology, SynSAC, to synchronize budding yeast cells in metaphase I or metaphase II during meiosis, as well and in mitotic metaphase, thereby enabling differential analyses among these cell division stages. Their approach builds on prior strategies originally developed in fission yeast and human cells models to induce a synthetic spindle assembly checkpoint (SAC) arrest by conditionally forcing the heterodimerization of two SAC proteins upon addition of abscisic acid (ABA). The results from this manuscript are of special relevance for researchers studying meiosis and using Saccharomyces cerevisiae as a model. Moreover, the differential analysis of the composition and phosphorylation of kinetochores from meiotic metaphase I and metaphase II adds interest for the broader meiosis research community. Finally, regarding my expertise, I am a researcher specialized in the regulation of cell division.

      References

      (1) Salah, S.M., and Nasmyth, K. (2000). Destruction of the securin Pds1p occurs at the onset of anaphase during both meiotic divisions in yeast. Chromosoma 109, 27–34.

      (2) Matos, J., Lipp, J.J., Bogdanova, A., Guillot, S., Okaz, E., Junqueira, M., Shevchenko, A., and Zachariae, W. (2008). Dbf4-dependent CDC7 kinase links DNA replication to the segregation of homologous chromosomes in meiosis I. Cell 135, 662–678.

      (3) Marston, A.L.A.L., Lee, B.H.B.H., and Amon, A. (2003). The Cdc14 phosphatase and the FEAR network control meiotic spindle disassembly and chromosome segregation. Developmental cell 4, 711–726. https://doi.org/10.1016/S1534-5807(03)00130-8.

      (4) Marston, A.L., Lee, B.H., and Amon, A. (2003). The Cdc14 phosphatase and the FEAR network control meiotic spindle disassembly and chromosome segregation. Dev Cell 4, 711–726. https://doi.org/10.1016/s1534-5807(03)00130-8.

      (5) Attner, M.A., and Amon, A. (2012). Control of the mitotic exit network during meiosis. Molecular Biology of the Cell 23, 3122–3132. https://doi.org/10.1091/mbc.E12-03-0235.

      (6) Pablo-Hernando, M.E., Arnaiz-Pita, Y., Nakanishi, H., Dawson, D., del Rey, F., Neiman, A.M., and de Aldana, C.R.V. (2007). Cdc15 Is Required for Spore Morphogenesis Independently of Cdc14 in Saccharomyces cerevisiae. Genetics 177, 281–293. https://doi.org/10.1534/genetics.107.076133.

      (7) El Jailani, S., Cladière, D., Nikalayevich, E., Touati, S.A., Chesnokova, V., Melmed, S., Buffin, E., and Wassmann, K. (2025). Eliminating separase inhibition reveals absence of robust cohesin protection in oocyte metaphase II. EMBO J 44, 5187–5214. https://doi.org/10.1038/s44318-025-00522-0.

      (8) Rosenberg, J.S., Cross, F.R., and Funabiki, H. (2011). KNL1/Spc105 Recruits PP1 to Silence the Spindle Assembly Checkpoint. Current Biology 21, 942–947. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2011.04.011.

      (9) Koch, L.B., Spanos, C., Kelly, V., Ly, T., and Marston, A.L. (2024). Rewiring of the phosphoproteome executes two meiotic divisions in budding yeast. EMBO J 43, 1351–1383. https://doi.org/10.1038/s44318-024-00059-8.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Taylar Hammond and colleagues identified new regulators of the G1/S transition of the cell cycle. They did so by screening publicly available data from the Cancer Dependency Map and identified FAM53C as a positive regulator of the G1/S transition. Using biochemical assays they then show that FAM53 interacts with the DYRK1A kinase to inhibit its function. They show in RPE1 cells that loss of FAMC53 leads to a DYRK1A + P53-dependent cell cycle arrest. Combined inactivation of FAM53C and DYRK1A in a TP53-null background caused S-phase entry with subsequent apoptosis. Finally the authors assess the effect of FAM53C deletion in a cortical organoid model, and in Fam53c knockout mice. Whereas proliferation of the organoids is indeed inhibited, mice show virtually no phenotype.

      The authors have revised the manuscript, and I respond here point-by-point to indicate which parts of the revision I found compelling, and which parts were less convincing. So the numbering is consistent with the numbering in my first review report.

      (1) The p21 knockdowns are a valuable addition, and the claim that other p53 targets than p21 are involved in the FAMC53 RNAi-mediated arrest is now much more solid. Minor detail: if S4D is a quantification of S4C, it is hard to believe that the quantification was done properly (at least the DYRK1Ai conditions). Perhaps S4C is not the best representative example, or some error was made?

      We appreciate the concern from the Reviewer. As explained in the first round of revisions, we have mostly used an immunoassay based on capillary transfer (WES system), which is very quantitative (much more than classical immunoblot). As for the other WES assays, the panel in S4C is a representation from the signal in the capillary from one of the experiments we performed (in many ways, we should simply not show these representations but readers and reviewers expect them). We agree that this was not visually the most representative, likely because of the saturation of the signal, and we replaced it with another one.

      (2a) I appreciate the decision to remove the cyclin D1 phosphorylation data. A more nuanced model now emerges. It is not clear to me however why the Protein Simple immunoassay was used for experiments with RPE cells, and not the cortical organoids. Even though no direct claims are made based on the phospho-cyclin D data in Figure 5E+G, showing these data suggests that FAM53C deletion increases DYRK1A-mediated cyclin D1 phosphorylation. I find it tricky to show these data, while knowing now that this effect could not be shown in the RPE1 cells.

      The Reviewer raises a valid point. The data we had presented in the first version of the manuscript were strongly suggestive of changes in Cyclin D1 phosphorylation and protein stability but we followed the Reviewer’s advice to remove them from the revised manuscript because the effects were sometimes small. We decided to keep these data in the organoid model because we felt this is a question that many readers would have (how do changes in FAM53C affect Cyclin D levels?). As the Reviewer mentions, we did not draw conclusions about this but we felt and still feel it is important to connect the dots, even if imperfectly, between FAM53C and the cell cycle, and these data in Figure complement the data in Figure 3F. The experiments with RPE-1 cells were mostly performed in the Sage lab with the WES assay while the experiments with organoids were largely performed in the Pasca lab where more ‘classic’ immunoblots are routinely used. More generally, some antibodies work better with one method vs. the other and we often go back and forth between the two.

      (2b) The quantifications of the immunoassays are not convincing. In multiple experiments, the HSP90 levels vary wildly, which indicates big differences in protein loading if HSP90 is a proper loading control. This is for example problematic for the interpretation of figure 3F and S3I. The cyclin D1 "bands" look extremely similar between siCtrl and siFAM53C (Fig S3I), in fact the two series of 6 samples with different dosages of DYRK1Ai look seem an identical repetition of each other. I did not have to option to overlay them, but it would be important to check if a mistake was made here. The cyclin D1 signals aside, the change in cycD1/HSP90 ratios seems to be entirely caused by differences in HSP90 levels. Careful re-analysis of the raw data and more equal loading seem necessary. The same goes (to a lesser extent) for S3J+K.

      As mentioned above, the representation of the fluorescence signal may be important for readers who are used to seeing immunoblot (Western blots), but the quantification is performed on the values directly obtained from the WES system from ProteinSimple. In these experiments, we make sure that the numbers we obtain are in a validated range, allowing us to use the values, even if sometimes the loading is a bit different between lanes. The sensitivity of the WES assay allows for high accuracy in intra-well quantification allowing for accurate inter-well quantification once loading control normalization is completed.

      (2c) the new model in Fig S4L: what do the arrows at the right FAM53C and p53 that merge a point straight towards S-phase mean? They suggest that p53 (and FAM53C) directly promote S-phase progression, but most likely this is not what the authors intended with it.

      Very good point. We were trying to be inclusive of various signaling pathways that may be implicated in the regulation of the cell cycle by this group of proteins. FAM53C does promote S-phase entry (more cycling when FAM53C is overexpressed) but we removed the arrow coming from p53, which is certainly not a positive regulator of cell cycle progression. Thank you for helping us correct this mistake.

      (3) Clear; nicely addressed.

      (4) Thank you for correcting.

      (5) I appreciate that the authors are now more careful to call the IMPC analysis data preliminary. This is acceptable to me, but nevertheless, I suggest the authors to seriously consider taking this part entirely out. The risk of chance finding and the extremely skewed group sizes (as reviewer #2 had pointed out) hamper the credibility of this statistical analysis.

      We appreciate this concern but feel that it is important for the community to be aware of these phenotypes so other investigators either study FAM53C in different genetic contexts or, for example, generate a conditional knockout allele to study more acute effects of FAM53C loss during development and in adult mice. We believe that the text is carefully written and acknowledge the caveats of small sample sizes in some statistical analyses.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      The authors sought to identify new regulators of the G1/S transition by mining the Cancer Dependency Map (DepMap) co-dependency dataset. This analysis successfully identified FAM53C, a poorly characterized protein, as a candidate. The strength of the paper lies in this initial discovery and the subsequent biochemical work convincingly showing that FAM53C can directly interact with the kinase DYRK1A, a known cell cycle regulator.

      The authors then present evidence, primarily from acute siRNA knockdown in RPE-1 cells, that loss of FAM53C induces a strong G1 cell cycle arrest. Their follow-up investigation proposes a model where FAM53C normally inhibits DYRK1A, thereby protecting Cyclin D from degradation and preventing p53 activation, to allow for G1/S progression. The authors have commendably addressed some concerns from the initial review: they have now demonstrated the G1 arrest using two independent siRNAs (an improvement over the initial pool), shown the effect in several additional cancer cell lines (U2OS, A549, HCT-116), and developed a more nuanced model that incorporates p53 activation, which helps to explain some of the complex data.

      However, a central and critical weakness persists. The entire functional model is built upon the very strong G1 arrest phenotype observed in vitro following acute knockdown. This finding is in stark contrast to data from other contexts. As the authors note, the knockout of Fam53c in mice results in minimal phenotypes, and the DepMap data itself suggests the gene is largely non-essential in most cancer cell lines.

      This major discrepancy creates two competing interpretations:

      As the authors suggest, FAM53C has a critical role in the cell cycle, but its loss is rapidly masked by compensatory mechanisms in long-term knockout models (like iPSCs and mice) or in established cancer cell lines.

      The strong acute G1 arrest is an experimental artifact of the siRNA-mediated knockdown, and not a true reflection of FAM53C's primary function.

      The authors' new controls (using two individual siRNAs and showing the arrest is RB-dependent) make an off-target effect less likely, but they do not definitively rule it out. The gold-standard experiment to distinguish between these two possibilities-a rescue of the phenotype using an siRNA-resistant cDNA-has not been performed.

      Because this key control is missing, the foundation of the paper's functional claims is not as solid as it needs to be. While the study provides an interesting and valuable new candidate for the cell cycle field to investigate, readers should be cautious in accepting the strength of FAM53C's role in the G1/S transition until this central discrepancy is definitively resolved.

      We appreciate this concern from the Reviewer. Genetically, FAM53C is linked to a number of genes coding for known regulators of the G1/S transition and its loss of function would be predicted to lead to G1 arrest based on these genetic interactions. As the Reviewer nicely summarizes, we have data in several cell types, including non-cancerous immortalized cells (RPE-1) and several cancer cell lines, that FAM53C acute knock-down leads to a G1 arrest. Our data also indicate that this arrest is RB dependent and p53 independent. Furthermore, genetic knockout of FAM53C in iPSC-derived human cortical organoids results in decreased proliferation. All these elements point to a role for FAM53C in G1/S. We performed some pilot rescue experiments, as suggested by the Reviewer, but these preliminary assays could not identify the right “dose” of FAM53C. We agree that it will be important in future studies to develop better genetic systems in which FAM53C can be manipulated genetically. However, our overexpression experiments show increased proliferation, providing more support for a role of FAM53C at the G1/S transition of the cell cycle.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this study Hammond et al. investigated the role of Dual-specificity Tyrosine Phosphorylation regulated Kinase 1A (DYRK1) in G1/S transition. By exploiting Dependency Map portal, they identified a previously unexplored protein FAM53C as potential regulator of G1/S transition. Using RNAi, they confirmed that depletion of FAM53C suppressed proliferation of human RPE1 cells and that this phenotype was dependent on the presence protein RB. In addition, they noted increased level of CDKN1A transcript and p21 protein that could explain G1 arrest of FAM53C-depleted cells but surprisingly, they did not observe activation of other p53 target genes. Proteomic analysis identified DYRK1 as one of the main interactors of FAM53C and the interaction was confirmed in vitro. Further, they showed that purified FAM53C blocked the ability of DYRK1 to phosphorylate cyclin D in vitro although the activity of DYRK1 was likely not inhibited (judging from the modification of FAM53C itself). Instead, it seems more likely that FAM53C competes with cyclin D in this assay. Authors claim that the G1 arrest caused by depletion of FAM53C was rescued by inhibition of DYRK1 but this was true only in cells lacking functional p53. This is quite confusing as DYRK1 inhibition reduced the fraction of G1 cells in p53 wild type cells as well as in p53 knock-outs, suggesting that FAM53C may not be required for regulation of DYRK1 function. Instead of focusing on the impact of FAM53C on cell cycle progression, authors moved towards investigating its potential (and perhaps more complex) roles in differentiation of IPSCs into cortical organoids and in mice. They observed a lower level of proliferating cells in the organoids but if that reflects an increased activity of DYRK1 or if it is just an off-target effect of the genetic manipulation remains unclear. Even less clear is the phenotype in FAM53C knock-out mice. Authors did not observe any significant changes in survival nor in organ development but they noted some behavioral differences. Weather and how these are connected to the rate of cellular proliferation was not explored. In the summary, the study identified previously unknown role of FAM53C in proliferation but failed to explain the mechanism and its physiological relevance at the level of tissues and organism. Although some of the data might be of interest, in current form the data is too preliminary to justify publication.

      Major comments:

      (1) Whole study is based on one siRNA to Fam53C and its specificity was not validated. Level of the knock down was shown only in the first figure and not in the other experiments. The observed phenotypes in the cell cycle progression may be affected by variable knock-down efficiency and/or potential off target effects.

      We fully acknowledge these limitations in our study. First, we agree that the efficiency of the knock-down can be variable across experiments; unfortunately, antibodies against FAM53C are currently still not optimal and immunoassays against this protein have not always been reliable in our hands. It will be important in the future to develop better antibodies for this poorly studied factor. Second, we also agree that the siRNA pool is perhaps not optimal (note that we used a pool, not a single siRNA). We provide data in the manuscript that single siRNAs (from the pool) also arrest cells in G1. Our data also show that this arrest in observed in several cell lines (cancerous and not cancerous), in a p53 independent but RB dependent way. We further note that we also provide data in cortical spheroids derived from CRISPR/Cas9 knockout iPSCs showing a similar inhibition of proliferation, validating our observations in a completely orthogonal system. Finally, overexpression studies support a role for FAM53C at the G1/S transition (i.e., FAM53C overexpression is sufficient to promote proliferation).

      (2) Experiments focusing on the cell cycle progression were done in a single cell line RPE1 that showed a strong sensitivity to FAM53C depletion. In contrast, phenotypes in IPSCs and in mice were only mild suggesting that there might be large differences across various cell types in the expression and function of FAM53C. Therefore, it is important to reproduce the observations in other cell types.

      As mentioned above, we have observed cell cycle arrest in several cancer cell lines (U2OS, A549, HCT-116) and in iPSC-derived organoids. We acknowledge that RPE-1 cells seem most sensitive to the knock-down and, currently, we do not understand why. In the future, it will be critical to gain a better understanding of the cellular/genetic contexts in which FAM53C plays more important roles in the G1/S transition; it will be also critical to understand what mechanisms may compensate for loss of FAM53C in cells, in culture and in vivo.

      (3) Authors state that FAM53C is a direct inhibitor of DYRK1A kinase activity (Line 203), however this model is not supported by the data in Fig 4A. FAM53C seems to be a good substrate of DYRK1 even at high concentrations when phosphorylations of cyclin D is reduced. It rather suggests that DYRK1 is not inhibited by FAM53C but perhaps FAM53C competes with cyclin D. Further, authors should address if the phosphorylation of cyclin D is responsible for the observed cell cycle phenotype. Is this Cyclin D-Thr286 phosphorylation, or are there other sites involved?

      We completely agree with the Reviewer that the functional interactions between FAM53C and DYRK1A will need to be explored further. Our data (and other data from mass spectrometry experiments in other contexts) support a model in which FAM53C binds to DYRK1A. Genetics analyses indicate that FAM53C is antagonistic to DYRK1A function. Our phosphorylation assays show decreased DYRK1A activity when FAM53C is present. Because our data also show that DYRK1A phosphorylates FAM53C, there may be more than one level of functional interaction between the two proteins, including effects by DYRK1A on FAM53C through its phosphorylation activity. We state in the text that our data suggest “that FAM53C may be a competitive substrate and/or an inhibitor of DYRK1A”, and we agree that we cannot provide a stronger conclusion at this point.

      We believe that genetic data from DepMap and our data support a model in which Cyclin D is downstream of FAM53C in its regulation of the G1/S progression. As discussed with Reviewer #1, it has proven challenging to investigate how FAM53C may control the phosphorylation and degradation of Cyclin D. Thr286 is certainly a critical phosphorylation site, and this residue can be phosphorylated by DYRK1A, but whether FAM53C and DYRK1A engage with other residues or domains is not known and should be the focus of future studies.

      (4) At many places, information on statistical tests is missing and SDs are not shown in the plots. For instance, what statistics was used in Fig 4C? Impact of FAM53C on cyclin D phosphorylation does not seem to be significant. In the same experiment, does DYRK1 inhibitor prevent modification of cyclin D?

      We thank the Reviewer for this comment. We made sure in the revised version to mention all the statistical tests used.

      (5) Validation of SM13797 compound in terms of specificity to DYRK1 was not performed.

      We provided tables in Figure S3 that summarize the biochemical characterization of this DYRK1A inhibitor (performed by Biosplice Therapeutics, where this compound was developed)

      (6) A fraction of cells in G1 is a very easy readout but it does not measure progression through the G1 phase. Extension of the S phase or G2 delay would indirectly also result in reduction of the G1 fraction. Instead, authors could measure the dynamics of entry to S phase in cells released from a G1 block or from mitotic shake off.

      This is an interesting point raised by the Reviewer. It is correct that we only performed a more in-depth characterization of cell cycle phenotypes in certain contexts (e.g., cell counting, EdU incorporation) (see Figures 1 and S1). It is possible that different cell types adapt differently to loss or overexpression of FAM53C, and assays to synchronize the cells, including by mitotic shake off, maybe useful in future experiments to further characterize the cell cycle of FAM53C mutant cells.

      Comments to the revised manuscript:

      In the revised version of the manuscript, authors addressed most of the critical points. They now include new data with depletion of FAM53C using single siRNAs that show small but significant enrichment of population of the G1 cells. This G1 arrest is likely caused by a combined effects on induction of p21 expression and decreased levels of cyclin D1. Authors observed that inhibition of DYRK1 rescued cyclin D1 levels in FAM53 depleted cells suggesting that FAM53C may inhibit DYRK1. This possibility is also supported by in vitro experiments. On the other hand, inhibition of DYRK1 did not rescue the G1 arrest upon depletion of FAM53C, suggesting that FAM53C may have also DYRK1-independent role in G1. Functional rescue experiments with cyclin D1 mutants and detection of DYRK1 activity in cells would be necessary to conclusively explain the function of FAM53C in progression through G1 phase but unfortunately these experiments were technically not possible. Knock out of FAM53C in iPSCs and in mice suggest that FAM53C may have additional functions besides the cell cycle control and/or that adaptation may have occurred in these model systems. Overall, the study implicated FAM53C in fine tuning DYRK1 activity in cells that may to some extent influence the progression through G1 phase. In addition, FAM53C may also have DYRK1 and cell cycle independent functions that remain to be addressed by future studies.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      All my minor points (6-11) were addressed adequately. No further comments.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The paper's conclusions would be substantially strengthened and the primary concern about off-target effects could be definitively resolved by performing one of the following two experiments:

      (1) Perform a rescue experiment. This would involve transfecting RPE-1 cells with an expression vector for an siRNA-resistant FAM53C cDNA (alongside a control vector) and then treating the cells with the FAM53C siRNAs. If the G1 arrest is a true on-target effect, the cells expressing the resistant cDNA should be "rescued" and continue to proliferate, while the control cells arrest. This is the most direct and standard way to validate a phenotype derived from siRNA.

      (2) Use an acute gene deletion approach that bypasses siRNAs entirely. The authors could use a lentiviral gRNA/Cas9 system to induce acute knockout of FAM53C in RPE-1 cells and assess the cell cycle phenotype at an early time point (e.g., 48-72 hours post-infection). This would provide a direct comparison to the acute siRNA knockdown, and if it recapitulates the strong G1 arrest, it would confirm the phenotype is due to FAM53C loss and not an artifact of the RNAi machinery. The current knockout models (iPSC, mice) are stable and long-term, which allows for the compensatory mechanism argument; an acute knockout would be a much stronger control. The authors could then also follow the fate of the cells and determine the nature of the suspected compensatory mechanisms.

      Addressing this central point is critical for the credibility of the proposed G1/S control element.

      As discussed above, the observations of similar phenotypes in four cell lines (RPE-1 cells and three cancer cell lines) using a pool of siRNAs and in cortical organoids derived from iPSCs using a knockout approach strongly support our results. But we agree that our current study has limitations, including the lack of genetic re-introduction of FAM53C in knock-down or mutant cells. We also note that strong genetic evidence points to a role for FAM53C at the G1/S transition. We hope that some of the readers will be excited by FAM53C as an understudied factor with possible critical roles in fundamental cell biology and human diseases, and future studies will continue to investigate its function in cells using additional approaches.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      The authors test the hypotheses, using an effort-exertion and an effort-based decision-making task, while recording brain dynamics with EEG, that the brain processes reward outcomes for effort differentially when they earned for themselves versus others.

      The strengths of this experiment include what appears to be a novel finding of opposite signed effects of effort on the processing of reward outcomes when the recipient is self versus others. Also, the experiment is well-designed, the study seems sufficiently powered, and the data and code are publicly available.

      We thank Reviewer #1 for the affirmative appraisal of our manuscript as well as the thoughtful and insightful comments, which have enabled us to significantly improve the manuscript.

      (1) Inferences rely heavily on the results of mixed effects models which may or may not be properly specified and are not supported by complementary analyses.

      We thank Reviewer #1 for raising this critical issue of model specification. We have re-fitted our mixed-effects models and performed complementary analyses to validate the robustness of our findings. Specifically, we adopted the maximal converging random-effects structure (including random slopes for Recipient, Effort, and Magnitude where feasible) while ensuring model stability (see Responses to Reviewer #1’s Recommendations point 2). Crucially, our primary findings, including the Recipient × Effort and Recipient × Effort × Magnitude interactions, remained robust. Furthermore, additional analyses confirmed that these results were not confounded by factors such as response speed and subjective effort rating (see Responses to Reviewer #1’s Recommendations point 5).

      (2) Also, not all results hang together in a sensible way. For example, participants report feeling less subjective effort, but also more disliking of tasks when they were earning rewards for others versus self. Given that participants took longer to complete tasks when earning effort for others, it is conceivable that participants might have been working less hard for others versus themselves, and this may complicate the interpretation of results.

      We thank Reviewer #1 for this insightful point (which also relates to Reviewer #3’s point 5). In our study, participants were asked to rate three specific dimensions: Effort (“How much effort did you exert to complete each effort condition when earning rewards for yourself [or the other person]?”), Difficulty (“How much difficulty did you perceive in each effort condition when earning rewards for yourself [or the other person]?”), and liking (“How much did you like each effort condition when earning rewards for yourself [or the other person]?”).

      We acknowledge the Reviewer #1’s concern that the lower subjective effort ratings for others seems contradictory to the higher disliking and longer completion times. We propose that in this paradigm, subjective effort ratings are susceptible to demand characteristics and likely captured motivational engagement (e.g., “how hard I tried” or “how willing I was”) rather than perceived task demands. To disentangle these factors, we included a measure of perceived task difficulty, which is anchored in task properties and is less prone to social desirability biases (Harmon-Jones et al., 2020; Wright et al., 1990). We found no differences in perceived difficulty between self- and other-benefiting trials (Figure 2D), suggesting that the task demands were perceived as equivalent across conditions. To examine this interpretation more directly, we analyzed correlations among participants’ ratings of difficulty, effort, and liking. As illustrated in Figure S1, we found no correlation between difficulty and effort ratings. Crucially, liking ratings were negatively correlated with difficulty ratings.

      More importantly, our performance data contradict the interpretation that participants “worked less hard” for others in terms of task completion. While participants took longer to complete tasks for others, they maintained comparable, near-ceiling success rates for self (97%) and other (96%) recipients (b = -0.46, p = 0.632; Supplementary Table S1). This dissociation suggests that although participants were less motivated (e.g., lower subjective ratings, longer completion times, and greater disliking) to work for others, they ultimately exerted the necessary physical effort to achieve successful outcomes. Thus, the results consistently point to a decrease in prosocial motivation (consistent with prosocial apathy) rather than a failure of effort exertion.

      Wright, R. A., Shaw, L. L., & Jones, C. R. (1990). Task demand and cardiovascular response magnitude: Further evidence of the mediating role of success importance. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 59(6), 1250-1260. https://doi.org/10.1037/0022-3514.59.6.1250

      Harmon-Jones, E., Willoughby, C., Paul, K., & Harmon-Jones, C. (2020). The effect of perceived effort and perceived control on reward valuation: Using the reward positivity to test a dissonance theory prediction. Biological Psychology, 107910. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.biopsycho.2020.107910

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Measurements of the reward positivity, an electrophysiological component elicited during reward evaluation, have previously been used to understand how self-benefitting effort expenditure influences the processing of rewards. The present study is the first to complement those measurements with electrophysiological reward after-effects of effort expenditure during prosocial acts. The results provide solid evidence that effort adds reward value when the recipient of the reward is the self but discounts reward value when the beneficiary is another individual.

      An important strength of the study is that the amount of effort, the prospective reward, the recipient of the reward, and whether the reward was actually gained or not were parametrically and orthogonally varied. In addition, the researchers examined whether the pattern of results generalized to decisions about future efforts. The sample size (N=40) and mixed-effects regression models are also appropriate for addressing the key research questions. Those conclusions are plausible and adequately supported by statistical analyses.

      We appreciate Reviewer #2’s positive appraisal of our manuscript. We are fortunate to receive your thoughtful and insightful suggestions and have revised the manuscript accordingly.

      (1) Although the obtained results are highly plausible, I am concerned whether the reward positivity (RewP) and P3 were adequately measured. The RewP and P3 were defined as the average voltage values in the time intervals 300-400 ms and 300-440 ms after feedback onset, respectively. So they largely overlapped in time. Although the RewP measure was based on frontocentral electrodes (FC3, FCz, and FC4) and the P3 on posterior electrodes (P3, Pz, and P4), the scalp topographies in Figure 3 show that the RewP effects were larger at the posterior electrodes used for the P3 than at frontocentral electrodes. So there is a concern that the RewP and P3 were not independently measured. This type of problem can often be resolved using a spatiotemporal principal component analysis. My faith in the conclusions drawn would be further strengthened if the researchers extracted separate principal components for the RewP and P3 and performed their statistical analyses on the corresponding factor scores.

      We thank Reviewer #2 for raising this issue. We would like to clarify that these two components were time-locked to different types of feedback and therefore reflect neural responses to distinct stages of the prosocial effort task. Specifically, the P3 was time-locked to performance feedback (the effort-completion cue; e.g., the tick shown in Figure 1B), whereas the RewP was time-locked to reward feedback (e.g., the display of “+0.6”). Thus, despite the numerical similarity in the post-stimulus windows, the components capture neural activity evoked by independent events separated in time, corresponding to the performance monitoring versus reward evaluation stages of the task. To avoid misunderstanding, we have made this distinction more explicit in the revised manuscript, which now reads, “Single-trial RewP amplitude was measured as mean voltage from 300 to 400 ms relative to reward feedback onset (i.e., reward delivery) over frontocentral channels (FC3, FCz, FC4). We also measured the parietal P3 (300–440 ms; averaged across P3, Pz, and P4) in response to performance feedback (i.e., effort completion), given its relationship with motivational salience (Bowyer et al., 2021; Ma et al., 2014)” (page 27, para. 1, lines 2–6).

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      This study investigates how effort influences reward evaluation during prosocial behaviour using EEG and experimental tasks manipulating effort and rewards for self and others. Results reveal a dissociable effect: for self-benefitting effort, rewards are evaluated more positively as effort increases, while for other-benefitting effort, rewards are evaluated less positively with higher effort. This dissociation, driven by reward system activation and independent of performance, provides new insights into the neural mechanisms of effort and reward in prosocial contexts.

      This work makes a valuable contribution to the prosocial behaviour literature by addressing areas that previous research has largely overlooked. It highlights the paradoxical effect of effort on reward evaluation and opens new avenues for investigating the mechanisms underlying this phenomenon. The study employs well-established tasks with robust replication in the literature and innovatively incorporates ERPs to examine effort-based prosocial decision-making - an area insufficiently explored in prior work. Moreover, the analyses are rigorous and grounded in established methodologies, further enhancing the study's credibility. These elements collectively underscore the study's significance in advancing our understanding of effort-based decision-making.

      We thank Reviewer #3 for the positive assessment. We are particularly encouraged by the reviewer’s recognition of our novel integration of ERPs to uncover the distinct effects of effort on reward evaluation for self versus others. We have carefully addressed the specific recommendations raised in the subsequent comments to further strengthen the rigor and clarity of the manuscript.

      (1) Incomplete EEG Reporting: The methods indicate that EEG activity was recorded for both tasks; however, the manuscript reports EEG results only for the first task, omitting the decision-making task. If the authors claim a paradoxical effect of effort on self versus other rewards, as revealed by the RewP component, this should also be confirmed with results from the decision-making task. Omitting these findings weakens the overall argument.

      We thank Reviewer #3 for giving us the opportunity to verify the specific roles of our two tasks. The primary aim of our study is to elucidate the neural after-effects of effort exertion on subsequent reward evaluation during prosocial acts. The prosocial effort task was specifically designed for this purpose, as it involves actual effort expenditure followed by reward outcomes. Furthermore, this task uses preset effort-reward combinations, ensuring balanced trial counts and adequate signal-to-noise ratios across conditions, a critical requirement for robust ERP analysis. In contrast, the prosocial decision-making task was included specifically to quantify behavioral preference (i.e., prosocial effort discounting) rather than neural reward processing. Specifically, this task involves choices without immediate effort execution and reward feedback, making it impossible to examine the neural after-effects of effort exertion. However, the decision-making task remains indispensable for our study structure: it provides an independent behavioral phenomenon of prosocial apathy, which allowed us to link individual differences in behavioral motivation to the neural dissociations observed in the prosocial effort tasks (as detailed in our Responses to Reviewer #3’s 2). Thus, the two tasks provide complementary, rather than redundant, insights into the behavioral and neural mechanism of prosocial effort.

      (2) Neural and Behavioural Integration: The neural results should be contrasted with behavioural data both within and between tasks. Specifically, the manuscript could examine whether neural responses predict performance within each task and whether neural and behavioural signals correlate across tasks. This integration would provide a more comprehensive understanding of the mechanisms at play.

      We thank Reviewer #3 for this insightful and helpful suggestion. We agree that linking neural signatures with behavioral patterns is crucial for establishing the functional significance for our ERP findings. Regarding within-task association, it is important to note that the prosocial effort task was designed to require participants to exert fixed, preset levels of physical effort to earn uncertain rewards. This experimental control was necessary to standardize effort exertion across self-benefiting and other benefiting trials, thereby minimizing confounds such as differences in physical or perceived effort prior to the feedback phase. Indeed, the neural after-effects remained after controlling for these behavioral measures (i.e., response speed and self-reported effort; as detailed in responses to Reviewer #1’Recommendations point 5). Furthermore, unlike the prosocial effort task, the decision-making task inherently precludes the examination of the neural after-effects of effort; therefore, within-task association in this task was not possible.

      Given these considerations, we focused on the cross-task association. We examined whether the neural after-effects of effort (indexed by the RewP) in the prosocial effort task were modulated by individual differences in effort discounting. We used the K value estimated from the prosocial decision-making task as the index of effort discounting. We entered the K value (log-transformed and z-scored) as a continuous predictor into the mixed-effects models of RewP amplitudes. The full regression estimates for the model are presented in Table S1 (left).

      We observed a significant four-way interaction among recipient, effort, magnitude, and K value (b = 0.58, p = 0.013). To decompose this complex interaction, we performed simple slopes analyses separately for self- and other-benefiting trials at high and low levels of reward magnitude and discounting rate (±1 SD). As shown in Figure S2, for self-benefiting trials, the effort-enhancement effect on the RewP was significant only for participants with high discounting rates at low reward magnitude (b = 1.02, 95% CI = [0.22, 1.82], p = 0.012). In contrast, participants with low discounting rates exhibited no significant effort effect (b = -0.37, 95% CI = [-0.89, 0.15], p = 0.159). At high reward magnitude, simple slopes analyses detected no significant effort effects for either high (b = 0.35, 95% CI = [-0.44, 1.14], p = 0.383) or low (b = 0.45, 95% CI = [-0.07, 0.97], p = 0.093) discounting individuals. These findings strongly support the cognitive dissonance account (Aronson & Mills, 1959): those who find effort most aversive are most compelled to inflate the value of small rewards to justify their exertion. For these individuals, the completion of a costly action for a small reward may trigger a stronger internal justification effect, resulting in an amplified neural reward response.

      For other-benefiting trials, participants with low discounting rates exhibited a significant effort-discounting effect at high reward magnitude (b = -0.97, 95% CI = [-1.74, -0.20], p = 0.014). In contrast, no significant effort effects were observed for participants with high discounting rates at either high (b = -0.45, 95% CI = [-0.97, 0.08], p = 0.098) or low (b = -0.16, 95% CI = [-0.69, 0.38], p = 0.564) reward magnitudes, nor for participants with low discounting rates at low reward magnitude (b = 0.14, 95% CI = [-0.64, 0.92], p = 0.729). These results suggest that the justification mechanism observed for self-benefiting effort appears absent for other-benefiting effort. Instead, we observed a persistent effort discounting before, during, and after effort expenditure, which was most pronounced in individuals with low effort sensitivity (low K) when reward magnitude was high. This seemingly paradoxical pattern might be interpreted through the lens of disadvantageous inequity aversion (Fehr & Schmidt, 1999). Specifically, the combination of high personal effort and high monetary reward for another person creates a salient disparity between the participant’s incurred cost and the recipient’s gain. Although low-K individuals are behaviorally willing to tolerate this cost, their neural valuation system may nonetheless track the “unfairness” of this asymmetry, thereby attenuating the neural reward signal (Tricomi et al., 2010). These insights suggest that facilitating prosocial behavior may require not just lowering costs, but potentially framing outcomes to trigger the effort justification mechanisms that drive the effort paradox observed in self-benefiting acts (Inzlicht & Campbell, 2022).

      To confirm this four-way interaction, we also replaced the high-effort choice proportions in the decision-making task and observed a similar four-way interaction among recipient, effort, magnitude, and high-effort choice proportions (b = -0.58, p = 0.014; see Table S1 for detailed regression estimates). Together, this cross-task analysis not only provides a more comprehensive understanding of the mechanisms at play but also justifies the inclusion of the prosocial decision-making task. We sincerely thank Reviewer #3’ for this valuable suggestion, which has significantly strengthened our manuscript. We have included this analysis (page 16, para. 2; page 17, paras. 1–2) and discussed the results (page 20, para. 2, lines 10–15; page 20, para. 3; page 21, para. 1, lines 1–8) in the revised manuscript.

      Aronson, E., & Mills, J. (1959). The effect of severity of initiation on liking for a group. The Journal of Abnormal and Social Psychology, 59(2), 177-181. https://doi.org/10.1037/h0047195

      Fehr, E., & Schmidt, K. M. (1999). A theory of fairness, competition, and cooperation. The Quarterly Journal of Economics, 114(3), 817-868. http://www.jstor.org/stable/2586885

      Tricomi, E., Rangel, A., Camerer, C. F., & O'Doherty, J. P. (2010). Neural evidence for inequality-averse social preferences. Nature, 463(7284), 1089-1091. https://doi.org/10.1038/nature08785

      (3) Success Rate and Model Structure: The manuscript does not clearly report the success rate in the prosocial effort task. If success rates are low, risk aversion could confound the results. Additionally, it is unclear whether the models accounted for successful versus unsuccessful trials or whether success was included as a covariate. If this information is present, it needs to be explicitly clarified. The exclusion criteria for unsuccessful trials in both tasks should also be detailed. Moreover, the decision to exclude electrodes as independent variables in the models warrants an explanation.

      We appreciate the opportunity to clarify these points. In the revised manuscript, we have now explicitly reported the descriptive statistics and the results of a mixed-effects logistic model on response success in the revised manuscript (page 8, para. 1, lines 2–4; Supplementary Table S1). Participants achieved similarly high success rates in both self (M = 97%) and other trials (M = 96%; Figure S3). As shown in Table S2, success rates decreased as effort increased (b = -4.77, p < 0.001). However, no other effects reached significance (ps > 0.245). These near-ceiling success rates indicate strong task engagement and effectively rule out risk aversion as a potential confound.

      Regarding model structure, we excluded unsuccessful trials from statistical analyses because they were rare and distributed equally across conditions. Given the near-ceiling performance, we did not include success rate as a covariate, as it offers limited variance.

      Finally, we did not include electrodes as an independent variable because our hypotheses focused on condition effects rather than topographic differences. Following established research (e.g., Krigolson, 2018; Proudfit, 2015), we averaged RewP amplitudes across a frontocentral cluster (FC3, FCz, and FC4) and P3 amplitudes across a parietal cluster (P3, Pz, and P4), where activity is typically maximal. Averaging across these theoretically grounded clusters improves the signal-to-noise ratio and provides more reliable estimates of the underlying components. We have explicitly included this rationale in the revised manuscript, which reads, “Data were averaged across the selected electrode clusters to improve signal-to-noise ratio and reliability” (page 27, para. 1, lines 9–10).

      Proudfit, G. H. (2015). The reward positivity: From basic research on reward to a biomarker for depression. Psychophysiology, 52(4), 449-459. https://doi.org/10.1111/psyp.12370

      Krigolson, O. E. (2018). Event-related brain potentials and the study of reward processing: Methodological considerations. Int J Psychophysiol, 132(Pt B), 175-183. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ijpsycho.2017.11.007

      (4) Prosocial Decision Computational Modelling: The prosocial decision task largely replicates prior behavioural findings but misses the opportunity to directly test the hypotheses derived from neural data in the prosocial effort task. If the authors propose a paradoxical effect of effort on self-rewards and an inverse effect for prosocial effort, this could be formalised in a computational model. A model comparison could evaluate the proposed mechanism against alternative theories, incorporating the complex interplay of effort and reward for self and others. Furthermore, these parameters should be correlated with neural signals, adding a critical layer of evidence to the claims. As it is, the inclusion of the prosocial decision task seems irrelevant.

      We thank Reviewer #3 for this thoughtful suggestion regarding the value of computational modelling. We fully agree that formalizing mechanisms is crucial, but we would like to clarify why a computational model of decision-making cannot directly capture the paradoxical after-effects observed in our neural data. The paradoxical after-effect of effort exertion we report refers to experienced utility (i.e., how prior costs modulate the hedonic consumption of a reward), whereas the decision task measures decision utility (i.e., how prospective costs and benefits are integrated to guide choice). We included the prosocial decision task to establish a behavioral baseline and replicate the well-documented phenomenon of prosocial apathy. Consistent with prior work (e.g., Lockwood et al., 2017; Lockwood et al., 2022), our data show that at the decision stage (ex-ante), effort functions as a universal cost: participants discounted rewards for both self and others, differing only quantitatively (steeper discounting for others). It is only after effort is exerted (ex-post) that the pattern reverses: effort is valued for self but remains costly for others, representing a qualitative shift. Crucially, incorporating a "paradoxical valuation" parameter (i.e., effort as a reward) into our decision model would mathematically contradict the behavioral reality. Since participants actively avoided high-effort options, a model assuming effort adds value might fail to fit the choice data. The theoretical novelty of our study lies precisely in this temporal dissociation: whereas self-benefiting effort paradoxically enhances reward valuation, other-benefiting effort induces a persistent reward devaluation.

      To address the reviewer’s interest in bridging these two domains, we examined whether these distinct stages are linked at the level of individual differences. We hypothesized that an individual’s sensitivity to prospective effort cost (discounting rate K) might modulate their susceptibility to the retrospective neural after-effect. As detailed in our Responses to Reviewer #3’s point 2, we found that for self-benefiting trials, high-discounting individuals showed an effort-enhancement effect on the RewP at low reward magnitude, while for other-benefiting trials, low-discounting individuals exhibited effort-discounting effects at high reward magnitude. We sincerely thank Reviewer #3’ for this valuable suggestion, which has successfully correlated the two tasks and facilitated our understanding of the mechanisms at play.

      Lockwood, P. L., Hamonet, M., Zhang, S. H., Ratnavel, A., Salmony, F. U., Husain, M., & Apps, M. A. J. (2017). Prosocial apathy for helping others when effort is required. Nat Hum Behav, 1(7), 0131. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41562-017-0131.

      Lockwood, P. L., Wittmann, M. K., Nili, H., Matsumoto-Ryan, M., Abdurahman, A., Cutler, J., Husain, M., & Apps, M. A. J. (2022). Distinct neural representations for prosocial and self-benefiting effort. Curr Biol, 32(19), 4172-4185 e4177. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2022.08.010.

      (5) Contradiction Between Effort Perception and Neural Results: Participants reported effort as less effortful in the prosocial condition compared to the self condition, which seems contradictory to the neural findings and the authors' interpretation. If effort has a discounting effect on rewards for others, one might expect it to feel more effortful. How do the authors reconcile these results? Additionally, the relationship between behavioural data and neural responses should be examined to clarify these inconsistencies.

      This point aligns with the issues raised in Reviewer #1’s point 2. We acknowledge the apparent discrepancy between lower reported effort in the prosocial condition and the neural discounting effect. As detailed in our Responses to Reviewer #1’s point 2, we reconcile this by proposing that subjective effort ratings in this paradigm likely reflect motivational engagement (e.g., “how hard I tried” or “how willing I was”) rather than perceived task demands. Under this interpretation, the lower effort ratings for others reflect a withdrawal of engagement (consistent with prosocial apathy), which conceptually aligns with, rather than contradicts, the neural discounting effect. To validate this, we contrasted effort ratings with difficulty ratings (a more reliable index of objective demand). Our correlational analysis revealed no significant relationship between difficulty and effort ratings (r = -0.21, p = 0.196), suggesting that they capture distinct constructs. Furthermore, liking ratings were negatively correlated with difficulty ratings (r = -0.43, p = 0.011) but not with effort ratings (r = 0.32, p = 0.061), further dissociating the two measures. Crucially, as detailed in our Responses to Reviewer #1’s Recommendations point 5, our RewP effects remained significant even after controlling for individual effort ratings. This demonstrates that the neural effort-discounting effect for others is a physiological signature that operates independently of the subjective report bias.

      (6) Necessary Revisions to Manuscript: If the authors address the issues above, corresponding updates to the introduction and discussion sections could strengthen the narrative and align the manuscript with the additional analyses.

      We thank Reviewer #3 for the above insightful and helpful comments. We have carefully addressed these issues raised above and have updated the manuscript accordingly, including abstract, introduction, result, and discussion sections.

      Recommendations for the Authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Major comments:

      (1) The two biggest concerns I have are

      - Whether the mixed-effect models are properly specified, and

      - Whether the main interaction between the Recipient and effort on the reward positivity (RewP) reflects different levels of effort exertion when working for self versus others.

      We thank Reviewer #1 for identifying these two critical issues. We have carefully considered these points and conducted additional analyses to address them. Below, we provide a detailed response to each concern, explaining how we have improved the model specification and ruled out alternative interpretations regarding effort exertion.

      (2) On the first point, I noticed that the authors selectively excluded random effects for Effort and Magnitude when regressing RewP on Effort, Magnitude, Recipient, and Valence. This is important because the key result in the paper is a fixed effect two-way interaction between Recipient and Effort and a three-way interaction between Recipient, Effort, and Magnitude. It is not clear that these results will remain significant when Effort and Magnitude are included as random effects in the model. Thus the authors should justify their exclusion as random effects, and/or show that the results don't depend on including those random effects in the model. The same logic applies to the specification of other mixed effects models (e.g. the effect of Magnitude in the model predicting RTs).

      We thank Reviewer #1 for raising this important methodological point. We fully agree that including random slopes wherever possible reduces Type 1 error rates and yields more conservative tests of fixed effects. In our analyses, we determined the random effects structure for each model using singular value decomposition (SVD). Specifically, we began with a maximal model that included by-participant random slopes for all main effects and interactions as well as a participant-level random intercept. When the model failed to converge or yielded a singular fit, we applied SVD to identify redundant dimensions (i.e., components explaining zero variance) and iteratively removed these terms until convergence was achieved. This procedure allowed us to retain the maximal converging random-effects structure while ensuring model stability. We have clarified this procedure in the revised manuscript as follows, “For each model, we fitted the maximal random-effects structure and, when the model was overparameterized, used singular value decomposition to simplify the random-effects structure until the model converged” (page 28, para. 1, lines 5–8).

      Regarding the RewP model, including all variables (i.e., Recipient, Effort, Magnitude, and Valence) in the random-effects structure resulted in a boundary (singular) fit. Examination of the variance-covariance structure of the random effects revealed that the random slopes for Valence and Magnitude were perfectly negatively correlated (r = -1.00), indicating severe overparameterization. In our original submission, we removed the random slopes for Effort and Magnitude because the SVD analysis indicated redundant dimensions in the model structure.

      However, we agree with the Reviewer that retaining slopes for variables involved in key interactions is crucial. Therefore, we re-evaluated the model strategy: instead of removing Effort and Magnitude, we removed the random slope for Valence (which was the primary source of the perfect correlation). This modification successfully resolved the singularity while allowing us to retain the random slopes for the critical variables (i.e., Effort and Magnitude).

      Critically, this updated model yielded the same pattern of results as our original submission: the two-way interaction between Recipient and Effort and the three-way interaction between Recipient, Effort, and Magnitude remained significant (see Table S3). As expected, including the random slopes for Effort and Magnitude yielded a more conservative test of the fixed effects. While the critical three-way interaction remained significant (p = 0.019), the simple slope for the Self condition at high reward magnitude shifted slightly from significant (p = 0.041) to marginally significant (p = 0.056). However, the effect size remained largely unchanged (b = 0.42 vs. original b = 0.43), and the dissociation pattern, where self-benefiting trials show a positive trend while other-benefiting trials show a significant negative slope, remains robust and is statistically supported by the significant interaction. We have adopted this updated model in the revised manuscript and updated the relevant sections accordingly. Finally, note that we have removed the RewP table from the Supplementary Materials because the RewP model results are now presented as a figure in the main text (as suggested by Reviewer #1’s Recommendations point 3).

      We have also carefully verified the random effects structures for other mixed-effects models, including the RT and Performance-P3 models in the prosocial effort task, as well as the decision time and decision choice models in the prosocial decision-making task. The updated information is detailed as follows:

      Regarding the RT model, we replaced it with a more reasonable model of response speed (button presses per second), as suggested by Reviewer #1 (see our responses to Reviewer #1’s Recommendations point 4 for details).

      Regarding the performance-P3 model, the random-effects structure could only support Effort, as in our original submission; thus, the results remain unchanged.

      Regarding the decision time model, we have updated our results to include the quadratic effort term, as suggested by Reviewer #1 (see our responses to Reviewer #1’s Recommendations point 6 for details).

      Regarding the decision choice model, we included Recipient, Effort, and Magnitude in the random-effects structure. As shown in Table S4, the results remain largely consistent with the original model, except for a newly significant interaction between effort and magnitude. Follow-up simple slopes analyses revealed that the discounted effect of effort was more pronounced at low reward magnitude (M − 1SD: b = -2.69, 95% CI = [-3.09, -2.29], p < 0.001) than at high reward magnitude (M + 1SD: b = -2.38, 95% CI = [-2.82, -1.94],p < 0.001).

      In summary, we have improved the model specification following Reviewer #1’s suggestion. Crucially, the results remain qualitatively consistent with our original findings. We have updated the Results section, figures (Figures 2, 4, and 5), and OSF documents (including a new R Markdown file and an HTML output file detailing the final results) to reflect these analyses. Additionally, we have explicitly stated the method used for calculating p-values in the mixed-effects models (page 28, para. 1, lines 8–10), which was omitted in the original submission.

      (3) Regarding the mixed models, it would also be good to show a graphical depiction summarizing key effects (e.g. the Recipient by Effort interaction on RewP) rather than just showing the predictions of the fitted mixed effects models.

      This point is well-taken. Please see Figure S4, which visualizes the key effects and has now been included in the revised manuscript as Figure 4A.

      (4) Finally, regarding the mixed effect models of RTs - given the common finding that RTs are not normally distributed, the Authors might be better off regressing 1/RT (interpreted as speed rather than latency) since 1/RT will often make distributions less asymmetric and heavy-tailed.

      We thank Reviewer #1 for this helpful suggestion regarding data distribution. In our original analysis, the dependent variable was “completion time” (i.e., the latency to complete the required button presses with the 6-s window). We agree that these raw latency data exhibited characteristic non-normality (see Figure S5, Left). Based on Reviewer #1’s suggestion, we adopted “response speed” (calculated as button presses per second) as the dependent variable. As expected, this transformation substantially improved the normality of the distribution (see Figure S5, Right). We have refitted the mixed-effects model using this speed metric. Critically, the results largely replicated the patterns observed in our original model, with the exception that the main effect of reward magnitude did not reach significance in the speed model (see Table 5). Given the superior distributional properties of the speed metric, we have replaced the original latency analysis with the response speed model in the revised manuscript. We have updated the Results section (page 8, para. 1, lines 4–9) and Figures 2B–C accordingly.

      (5) Regarding the level of effort exerted, there are two reasons to suspect that participants exerted less for others versus themselves. The first is that they were slower to complete the button pressing for others versus themselves. The second is that they reported paradoxically less subjective effort for others versus self (paradoxical because they also reported liking the task less for others versus self). The explanation for both may be that they exerted less effort for others versus self and this has important implications for interpreting the main effects. If they exerted less effort for others, this may partly account for the key Recipient:Effort and Recipient:Effort:Magnitude interactions in the mixed effects regression of RewP. Do either median effort durations or self-reported effort predict the magnitude of the Recipient:Effort and Recipient:Effort:Magnitude interactions (if these were included as random effects)? If so, that would provide evidence supporting this story. Alternatively, if median durations or self-reported effort were included as covariates, do these interactions still obtain? In any case, the Authors should include caveats regarding this potential explanation of the self-versus-other interactions with effort and magnitude on the RewP" (or explain why this can not explain the interactions).

      We thank Reviewer #1 for raising this important interpretational issue. We acknowledge the concern that differences in physical exertion or perceived effort could potentially confound the neural findings. However, we argue that the observed RewP effects are not driven by these factors for several reasons.

      First, the prosocial effort task enforced fixed effort thresholds (10%–90% of their maximum effort level) across self-benefiting and other-benefiting trials. Importantly, participants achieved ceiling-level success rates that were highly comparable between self-benefiting (97%) and other-benefiting (96%) trials, indicating that they successfully exerted the required effort across conditions.

      Second, regarding the slower response speed for others (we used response speed instead of completion time, as the former is more suitable for statistical analysis; see details in Responses to Reviewer #1’s Recommendations point 4), we interpret this as a reduction in motivation rather than a reduction in the amount of effort exerted. Similarly, as detailed in our Responses to Reviewer#1’s point 2, subjective effort ratings in this paradigm appear to be influenced by demand characteristics and do not reliably track physical exertion. For instance, liking ratings were associated with difficulty (r = -0.43, p = 0.011) instead of effort (r = 0.32, p = 0.061) ratings.

      To empirically rule out the possibility that these behavioral differences account for the neural effect, we followed the reviewer’s suggestion and re-ran the mixed-effects model predicting RewP amplitudes with trial-by-trial response speed and subjective effort rating included as covariates. These control analyses revealed that neither response speed (b = -0.07, p = 0.614) nor self-reported effort (b = 0.10, p = 0.186) significantly predicted RewP amplitudes (see Table S6). Most importantly, the key interactions of interest (Recipient × Effort and Recipient × Effort × Magnitude) remained significant and virtually unchanged. These findings suggest that the observed neural after-effects of prosocial effort are not driven by variations in motor execution or perceived effort.

      Minor comments:

      (6) In Figure 5A a quadratic effect (not a linear effect) seems fairly obvious in decision times as a function of effort level. This makes sense given that participants are close to indifference, on average, around the 50-70% effort level. I recommend fitting a model that has a quadratic predictor and not just a linear predictor when regression decision times on effort levels.

      We thank Reviewer #1 for this insightful suggestion. We agree that decision times likely track decision conflict, which typically peaks near indifference points (e.g., moderate effort levels). Accordingly, we reanalyzed the decision time data using a mixed-effects model that included both linear and quadratic terms for effort. As detailed in Table S7, this analysis revealed a significant quadratic main effect of effort, which was further qualified by a significant interaction between the quadratic effort term and reward magnitude. Decomposition of this interaction (Figure S6) revealed that the quadratic effort effect was more pronounced at low reward magnitude (M − 1SD: b = -160.10, 95% CI = [-218.30, -101.90], p < 0.001) than at high reward magnitude (M + 1SD: b = -99.50, 95% CI = [-157.60, -41.40], p = 0.001). However, we found no significant interactions involving the quadratic effort term and recipient. We have updated the Results section (page 13, para. 2; page 14, para. 1) and Figures 5A–B (right panel) to reflect these findings.

      (7) The distinction between the effort and decision-making tasks wasn't super clear from the main text. A sentence early on in the results section could be useful for readers' understanding.

      This point is well taken. In the revised manuscript, we have clarified this distinction at the beginning of the Results section (page 6, para. 2, lines 1–10). In addition, we have explicitly indicated the corresponding task within each subsection heading in the Results:

      “2.1 Investing effort for others is less motivating than for self in the prosocial effort task” (page 7)

      “2.2 Effort adds reward value for self but discounts reward value for others in the prosocial effort task” (page 9)

      “2.3 Reward is devalued by effort to a higher degree for others than for self in the prosocial decision-making task” (page 13)

      (8) To what does "three trials" refer to on lines 143-144?

      Thank you for raising this point. Participants completed three trials in which they were asked to press a button as rapidly as possible with their non-dominant pinky finger for 6000 ms. The maximum effort level was operationalized as the average button-press count across the three trials. To improve clarity, we have also provided more detailed description in the Results section, which reads: “The mean maximum effort level (i.e., the average button-press count across three 6000-ms trials; see Procedure for details) ….” (page 7, para. 1, lines 1–2).

      (9) It is unclear how the authors select their time windows for ERP analyses.

      We thank Reviewer #1 for this comment. Measurement parameters (i.e., time windows and channel sites) were determined based on the grand-averaged ERP waveforms and topographic maps collapsed across all conditions. This procedure is orthogonal to the conditions of interest and prevents bias in the selection of measurement windows and channels, consistent with the “orthogonal selection approach” (Luck & Gaspelin, 2017). We have clarified this point in the revised manuscript, which now reads, “Measurement parameters (time windows and channel sites) were determined from the grand-averaged ERP waveforms and topographic maps collapsed across all conditions, which was thus orthogonal to the conditions of interest (Luck & Gaspelin, 2017)” (page 27, para. 1, lines 6–9).

      Luck, S., & Gaspelin, N. (2017). How to get statistically significant effects in any ERP experiment (and why you shouldn't). Psychophysiology, 54(1), 146-157.

      (10) There are a few typos throughout. For example, Line 124 should read "other half benefitted...", Line 127 should read "interest at each effort level...", "following" on Line 369, and Supplemental table titles incorrectly spell the word "Results".

      We thank Reviewer #1 for catching these errors. We have corrected all the specific typos noted (page 6, para. 2, lines 11 and 15; page 22, para. 3, line 2; Supplementary Table S2). Furthermore, we have conducted a thorough proofreading of the entire text and supplementary materials to ensure linguistic accuracy and consistency throughout the manuscript.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Minor comments:

      (1) Lines 84-86. "The RewP ... has its neural sources in the anterior cingulate cortex (Gehring & Willoughby, 2002) and ventral striatum (Foti et al., 2011)." This is a better reference for the ACC source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23973408/. And perhaps remove the reference to the ventral striatum; most people would agree that activity in the ventral striatum cannot be measured with scalp EEG.

      We thank Reviewer #2 for providing the updated reference, which has been cited in the revised manuscript. We agree that activity in the VS cannot be reliably measured with scalp EEG and thus have removed the reference to the VS. The revised sentence now reads, “… has its neural sources in the anterior cingulate cortex (Gehring & Willoughby, 2002; Hauser et al., 2014)” (page 4, para. 2, lines 12–13).

      (2) Lines 152-153. What exactly is shown in Figure 2A? How did the authors average across subjects?

      We thank Reviewer #2 for raising this issue. Figure 2A depicts the distribution of the maximum effort level, defined as the average button-press count across three 6000-ms trials completed before the prosocial effort task. In these trials, participants were instructed to press the button as rapidly as possible with their non-dominant pinky fingers. To improve clarity, we have revised the figure caption as: “(A) Distribution of the maximum effort level (i.e., the average button-press count across three 6000-ms trials) across participants” (Figure 2).

      (3) Lines 160-164. "As expected (Figure 2D), participants perceived increased effort as more difficult ... and more disliking (b = -0.62, p < 0.001) when the beneficiary was others than themselves." Does this sentence describe the main effect of the beneficiary or the interaction between beneficiary and effort level, as the start of the sentence ("increased effort") suggests?

      We thank Reviewer #2 for pointing out this ambiguity. The sentence describes the main effect of beneficiary rather than the interaction between beneficiary and effort level. In the revised manuscript, we have rephrased the sentence as: “They felt less effort (b = -0.32, p = 0.019) and more disliking (b = -0.62, p = 0.001) for other-benefiting trials compared to self-benefiting trials” (page 9, para. 1, lines 4–6).

      (4) Lines 195-196. "..., we conducted post-hoc simple slopes analyses at -1 SD ("Low") and + SD ("High") reward magnitude." I did not understand what the authors meant with these reward magnitudes, given that the actual potential rewards were ¥0.2, ¥0.4, ¥0.6, ¥0.8, and ¥1.0.

      In our analyses, the actual reward magnitudes (¥0.2, ¥0.4, ¥0.6, ¥0.8, and ¥1.0) were z-scored and entered as a continuous regressor in the mixed-effects models. Post-hoc simple slopes analyses were then conducted at ±1 SD from the mean of the z-scored reward magnitude. To clarify, we have revised the sentence as “… we conducted post-hoc simple slopes analyses at 1 standard deviation (SD) below (“Low”) and above (“High”) the mean reward magnitude” (page 11, para. 2, lines 8–9). This standard method for testing simple effects for continuous predictors is recommended by Aiken and West (1991). Aiken, L. S., West, S. G., & Reno, R. R. (1991). Multiple regression: Testing and interpreting interactions. Sage.

      (5) Lines 253 and 275. I would not call this a computational model. The authors fit a curve to data, there is no model of the computations involved.

      This point is well taken. We have replaced “computational model” with “discounting” (Figure 5) and “parabolic discounting model” (page 15, para. 1, line 15).

      (6) Line 710. Figure S1 does not show topographic maps of the P3, as the figure caption suggests.

      We thank Reviewer #2 for identifying this oversight. We have now included topographic maps of the P3 in Figure S1.

      (7) Please check language in lines 33 (effect between), 38 (shape), 49 (highest cost form?), 74 (tunning), 90 (omit following), 127 (interest on at each effort level), 135 (press buttons >> rapidly press a button?), 142 (motivated), 219 (should low be high?), 265-266 (missing word), 275 (confirmed by following), 292 (an action can be effortful, a feeling cannot), 315 (when it comes into), 330-331 (data is plural; the aftereffect of prosocial effect), 387 (interest on at each effort level), 405 (should quickly be often?).

      We thank Reviewer #2 for the careful review and feedback about these language issues. We have revised all the phrasing you identified. The corrections are as follows:

      Line 33: “effect between” has been changed to “effects for” (page 2, para. 1, line 6).

      Line 38: “shape” has been updated to “shapes” (page 2, para. 1, line 13).

      Line 49: “highest cost form?” has been revised to “the most common cost type” (page 3, para. 1, lines 7–8).

      Line 74: “tunning” has been corrected to “tuning” (page 4, para. 2, line 1).

      Line 90: omit following. Done (page 5, para. 1, line 2).

      Line 127: “interest on at each effort level” has been corrected to “liking for each effort level” (page 6, para. 2, line 15).

      Line 135: “press buttons” has been updated to “rapidly press a button” (the caption of Figure 1).

      Line 142: “motivated” has been revised to “motivating” (page 7).

      Line 219: should low be high? Yes, we have corrected this (the caption of Figure 4).

      Lines 265–266: The missing word “with” has been inserted (page 15, para. 1, line 2).

      Line 275: “confirmed by following” has been revised as “corroborated by a parabolic …” (page 15, para. 1, line 15).

      Line 292: an action can be effortful, a feeling cannot. We have changed the word “effortful” to “effort” (page 18, para. 2, line 3).

      Line 315: “when it comes into” has been revised to “when it came to” (page 19, para. 1, line 10).

      Lines 330–331: These two expressions have been revised to “our data establish …” and “the after-effect of prosocial effort” (page 20, para. 1, lines 2–3).

      Line 387: “interest on at each effort level” has been corrected to “interest at each effort level” (page 23, para. 2, line 5).

      Line 405: should quickly be often? We agree that “quickly” might imply latency or speed of a single press, whereas the task required maximizing the frequency of presses within the time window. To capture this meaning accurately, we have revised the phrase to “pressed a button as rapidly as possible” (implying repetition rate) in the revised manuscript (page 24, para. 2, lines 3–4).

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Del Rosario et al characterized the extent and cell types of sibling chimerism in marmosets. To do so, they took advantage of the thousands of SNPs that are transcribed in single-nucleus RNA-seq (snRNA-seq) data to identify the sibling genotype of origin for all sequenced cells across 4 tissues (blood, liver, kidney, and brain) from many marmosets. They found that chimerism is prevalent and widespread across tissues in marmosets, which has previously been shown. However, their snRNA-seq approach allowed them to identify precisely which cells were of sibling origin, and which were not. In doing so they definitively show that sibling chimerism across tissues is limited to cells of myeloid and lymphoid lineages. The authors then focus on a large sample of microglia sequenced across many brain regions to quantify: (1) variation in chimerism across brain regions in the same individual, and (2) the relative importance of genetic vs. environmental context on microglia function/identity.

      (1) Much like across different tissues in the same individual, they found that the proportion of chimeric microglia varies across brain regions collected from the same individuals (as well as differing from the proportion of sibling cells found in the blood of the same animals), suggesting that cells from different genetic backgrounds may differ in their recruitment and/or proliferation across regions and local tissue contexts, or that this may be linked to stochastic bottleneck effects during brain development.

      (2) Their (admittedly smaller sample size) analyses of host-sibling gene expression showed that the local environment dominates genotype.

      All told, this thoughtful and thorough manuscript accomplishes two important goals. First, it all but closes a previously open question on the extent and cell origins of sibling chimerism. Second, it sets the stage for using this unique model system to examine, in a natural context, how genetic variation in microglia may impact brain development, function, and disease.

      The conclusions of this paper are well supported by the data, and the authors exert appropriate care when extrapolating their results that come from smaller samples. However, there are a few concerns that should be addressed.

      The "modest correlation" mentioned in lines 170-172 does not take into account the uncertainty in estimates of each chimeric cell proportion (although the plot shows those estimates nicely). This is particularly important for the macrophages, which are far less abundant. Perhaps a more appropriate way to model this would be in a binomial framework (with a random effect for individuals of origin). Here, you could model the sibling identity of each macrophage as a function of the proportion of sibling-origin microglia and then directly estimate the percent variance explained.

      We appreciate this good suggestion. We performed an analysis along these lines, and found that it supported the conclusion of a lack of strong relationship between microglial and macrophage chimerism. In particular (and as we now have added to the Methods):

      “To perform an analysis of Fig. 2D that takes into account the uncertainty in the estimate of the chimeric cell proportion, we performed a binomial generalized linear mixed-effects model analysis in R using the command glmer( y~(1|indiv) + chimerism_micro, family=binomial), where y is a vector (of length 1,333) containing the genomic identity of each macrophage (either host or twin), 1|indiv models a random effect for the identity of each animal, and chimerism_micro is the microglia chimerism of the animal’s brain. The fixed effects probability of chimerism_micro was 0.795, indicating that microglial chimerism fraction was not statistically significant as a predictor for macrophage chimerism fraction. The estimate for the intercept was -0.8115 and the estimate for chimerism_micro was 0.3106, which indicates that the probability of a cell is a macrophage given the microglia chimerism fraction was only 0.57 (plogis(-0.8115+0.3106)).”

      We have added the following in the main text:

      “We investigated further by performing a statistical test that takes into account the uncertainty in the estimates of the chimeric cell proportion using a binomial framework (Methods); in this analysis, microglia chimerism fraction was not a statistically significant predictor of macrophage chimerism fraction (Methods). This suggests that in addition to the cell’s genome, other factors such as local host environment play a role in differential recruitment, proliferation or survival of the sibling cells. (We note that macrophages often transit the fluid-filled perivascular space, with a substantially different migration history and arrival dynamics than microglia.)”

      Given this new analysis, and our original observation that the Pearson correlation was only 0.31, we believe that other factors in addition to the cell’s genome play a role in differential recruitment or survival of sibling cells.

      A similar (albeit more complicated because of the number of regions being compared) approach could be applied to more rigorously quantify the variation in chimerism across brain regions (L198-215; Figure 4). This would also help to answer the question of whether specific brain regions are more "amenable" to microglia chimerism than others.

      We performed the analysis along these lines and added the following in the Methods section:

      “We used the same framework to further analyze Fig. 4. We included brain region as a covariate in the binomial framework: glmer( y~(1|indiv) + brain_reg + assay, family=binomial), where, y is a vector (of length 48,439) containing the genomic identity of each microglia, and assay is either “Drop-seq” or “10X”. The brain regions assayed in Fig. 4 are the cortex, hippocampus, hypothalamus, striatum, thalamus, and basal forebrain. All these brain regions were statistically significant predictors for microglia chimerism fraction (all P-values<2x10<sup>-16</sup>), supporting the conclusion that chimerism varies across brain regions. We also re-analyzed Supplementary Fig. 4 (Fig. 4B in original manuscript) using the same framework and found that 18 out of 27 brain substructures were statistically significant predictors for microglia chimerism fraction.”

      We have added the following sentences in the main text:

      “We used the binomial generalized linear mixed-model framework and found that all brain regions were statistically significant predictors for microglia chimerism fraction, supporting the conclusion that chimerism varies across brain regions (Methods).

      Analysis of finer brain substructures showed a similar result (Supplementary Fig. 4; the binomial generalized linear mixed-model framework determined that 18 out of 27 brain substructures were statistically significant as predictors for microglia chimerism fraction, Methods).”

      While the sample size is small, it would be exciting to see if any microglia eQTL are driven by sibling chimerism across the marmosets.

      We like this idea, but our study is underpowered for eQTL analysis since we only have 14 data points in the correlation analysis (eight cases in which an animal’s brain hosted microglia derived from a single sibling, plus three cases in which an animal’s brain hosted microglia derived from two siblings, collectively allowing 8 + (2*3)=14 pairwise analyses).

      L290-292: The authors should propose ways in which they could test the two different explanations proposed in this paragraph. For instance, a simulation-based modeling approach could potentially differentiate more stochastic bottleneck effects from recruitment-like effects.

      While intriguing, the gene expression comparison (Figure 5) is extremely underpowered. It would be helpful to clarify this and note the statistical thresholds used for identifying DEGs (the black points in the figure).

      We agree; to help clarify this for readers, we added the following sentence at the end of the paragraph discussing Fig. 5A-C.

      “In all eleven individual marmosets, analysis identified genes whose differential expression distinguished microglia with the two sibling genomes (hundreds of genes in total), documenting a substantial effect of sibling genetic differences on microglial gene expression. However, we did not find any gene whose expression level recurrently distinguished “host” microglia (microglia with the same genome as neural cell types) from “guest” microglia (microglia with the sibling genome), aside from the XIST gene (a proxy for sibling sex differences, which were of course common) (Supplementary Fig. 5, Fig. 5A-C). In other words, although there were always gene-expression differences between sibling microglia, none of them consistently distinguished between host and guest microglia, suggesting that they were instead due to sibling genetic differences. We note that both analyses are power-limited, as the number of microglia in most animals, especially guest microglia, were modest (Supplementary Fig. 5); thus, we cannot rule out the possibility that there may be one or more genes whose expression levels reflect developmental histories (host vs. guest origin), just as there are likely far more genes (than the hundreds we identified) that can have sibling expression differences due e.g. to genetic differences between siblings. We sought to increase power (beyond single-gene analysis) by using latent factor analysis (Ling et al., 2024) to identify and quantify the expression of microglial gene-expression programs; however, even this analysis did not find any gene expression programs that exhibited consistent host-twin differences in expression levels (Methods).”

      And in the caption of Fig. 5A-C, we have included the statistical threshold for identifying DEGs:

      “In (A) to (C), each point represents a gene; its location on the plot represents the level of expression of that gene among microglia with two different genomes in the same animal. x- and y-axes: normalized gene expression levels (number of transcripts per 100,000 transcripts). FC: fold-change of gene expression, female/male for XIST. Fold-change and P-values were calculated using the binomTest method from the edgeR package (Robinson et al., 2010). Differentially expressed genes (black dots) were defined as: FDR Q-value<0.05 and fold-change>1.5 (in either direction) and the gene must be expressed in at least 10% of at least one of the two sets of microglia being compared.”

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This manuscript reports a novel and quite important study of chimerism among common marmosets. As the authors discuss, it has been known for years that marmosets display chimerism across a number of tissues. However, as the authors also recognize, the scope and details of this chimerism have been controversial. Some prior publications have suggested that the chimerism only involves cells derived from hematopoietic stem cells, while other publications have suggested more cell types can also be chimeric, including a wide range of cell types present in multiple organs. The present authors address this question and several other important issues by using snRNA-seq to track the expression of host and sibling-derived mRNAs across multiple tissues and cell types. The results are clear and provide strong evidence that all chimeric cells are derived from hematopoietic cell lineages.

      This work will have an impact on studies using marmosets to investigate various biological questions but will have the biggest impact on neuroscience and studies of cellular function within the brain. The demonstration that microglia and macrophages from different siblings from a single pregnancy, with different genomes expressing different transcriptomes, are commonly present within specific brain structures of a single individual opens a number of new opportunities to study microglia and macrophage function as well as interactions between microglia, macrophages, and other cell types.

      Strengths:

      The paper has a number of important strengths. This analysis employs the first unambiguous approach providing a clear answer to the question of whether sibling-derived chimeric cells arise only from hematopoietic lineages or from a wider array of embryonic sources. That is a long-standing open question and these snRNA-seq data seem to provide a clear answer, at least for the brain, liver, and kidney. In addition, the present authors investigate quantitative variation in chimeric cell proportions across several dimensions, comparing the proportion of chimeric cells across individual marmosets, across organs within an individual, and across brain regions within an individual. All these are significant questions, and the answers have important implications for multiple research areas. Marmosets are increasingly being used for a range of neuroscience studies, and a better understanding of the process that leads to the chimerism of microglia and macrophages in the marmoset brain is a valuable and timely contribution. But this work also has implications for other lines of study. Third, the snRNA-seq data will be made available through the Brain Initiative NeMO portal and the software used to quantify host vs. sibling cell proportions in different biosamples will be available through GitHub.

      Weaknesses:

      I find no major weaknesses, but several minor ones. First, the main text of the manuscript provides no information about the specific animals used in this study, other than sex. Some basic information about the sources of animals and their ages at the time of study would be useful within the main paper, even though more information will be available in the supplementary material.

      We moved the table containing animal information (age at time of study, sex, source, tissues analyzed) from Supplementary Table 1 into the main text as Table 1. We also added the following sentences starting on line 140:

      “Brain snRNA-seq was performed on 11 animals (6 adults, 3 neonates and 1 six months old; Table 1). All were unrelated except for CJ006 and CJ007 which are birth siblings, and CJ025 and CJ026 which are (non-birth) siblings. All animals come from the three main marmoset colonies that comprise the animals in our facilities: New England Primate Research Center (NEPRC), CLEA Japan, and from a non-clinical contract research organization in Massachusetts. All adult marmosets had no known previous disease and were selected as part of a larger project to create a single cell atlas of the marmoset brain. The three neonates had died shortly after birth due to unknown reasons and were subsequently selected for snRNA-seq analysis.”

      Second, it is not clear why only 14 pairs of animals were used for estimating the correlation of chimerism levels in microglia and macrophages. Is this lower than the total number of pairwise comparisons possible in order to avoid using non-independent samples? Some explanation would be helpful.

      Only birth siblings (twins and triplets) can be meaningfully included in this analysis. The 14 pairs of animals we used to estimate the correlation of chimerism levels in microglia and macrophages included all pairs that we could use for this analysis: eight cases in which an animal’s brain hosted microglia derived from a single sibling, plus three cases in which an animal’s brain hosted microglia derived from two siblings, collectively allowing 8 + (2*3)=14 pairwise analyses.

      Finally, I think more analysis of the consistency and variability of gene expression in microglia across different regions of the brain would be valuable. Are there genetic pathways expressed similarly in host and sibling microglia, regardless of region of the brain? Are there pathways that are consistently expressed differently in host vs sibling microglia regardless of brain region?

      For brain-region differences in microglial gene expression, we are under-powered and would only be scratching the surface of a question (interesting but beyond the focus and scope of this paper) that needs deeper experimental sampling.

      For the questions about sibling-sibling differences (regardless of which sibling is host) and recurring host-sibling differences, we can do a stronger analysis, because these analyses have similar power to each other. We describe this analysis in the revised manuscript as follows:

      “In all eleven individual marmosets, analysis identified genes whose differential expression distinguished microglia with the two sibling genomes (hundreds of genes in total), documenting a substantial effect of sibling genetic differences on microglial gene expression. However, we did not find any gene whose expression level recurrently distinguished “host” microglia (microglia with the same genome as neural cell types) from “guest” microglia (microglia with the sibling genome), aside from the XIST gene (a proxy for sibling sex differences, which were of course common) (Supplementary Fig. 5, Fig. 5A-C). In other words, although there were always gene-expression differences between sibling microglia, none of them consistently distinguished between host and guest microglia, suggesting that they were instead due to sibling genetic differences. We note that both analyses are power-limited, as the number of microglia in most animals, especially guest microglia, were modest (Supplementary Fig. 5); thus, we cannot rule out the possibility that there may be one or more genes whose expression levels reflect developmental histories (host vs. guest origin), just as there are likely far more genes (than the hundreds we identified) that can have sibling expression differences due e.g. to genetic differences between siblings.”

      We also, as suggested, tried to get beyond single-gene analyses to expression of programs/pathways, by performing latent factor analysis on the single-cell gene expression measurements. 

      “Following the method described in (Ling et al., 2024), we performed latent factor analysis using the probabilistic estimation of expression residuals (PEER, Stegle et al., 2010) on the gene-by-donor matrix expression of microglia. We started by creating a gene-by-cell matrix of microglia gene expression from all animals, and we normalized the matrix using SCT transform version 2 (Choudhary and Satija, 2022) with 3000 variable features. We obtained the Pearson residuals from SCT normalization and summed up the residuals across cells with the same genome to obtain a gene-by-donor matrix of expression measurements of microglia. We used this matrix as input to PEER and ran the tool with a provided number of factors from 9 to 12. For each gene-expression latent factor, to evaluate whether host/sibling identity had a consistent effect on expression levels, we performed a linear regression with host/sibling identity using glm(peer_factor_k ~ host_or_twin). For all factors, the P-values for the effect of host_or_twin were all insignificant (greater than 0.1), indicating that no PEER factor associated with host-vs-twin identity. Thus, our results found no large-scale gene expression program that was consistently expressed differently between hosts and twins.”

      We have added the text above to the Methods section, and we added the following at the end of the section on Gene-expression comparisons of host- to sibling-derived microglia (lines 264-267):

      “We sought to increase power (beyond single-gene analysis) by using latent factor analysis (Ling et al., 2024) to identify and quantify the expression of microglial gene-expression programs; however, even this analysis did not find any gene expression programs that exhibited consistent host-twin differences in expression levels (Methods).”

      Gene-expression pathways/factors did (within some animals) did show host-twin differences in expression levels, but without a consistent host-twin direction of effect that was shared across the many host-twin comparisons. In particular, we used the PEER analysis that we have performed above and calculated the host-sibling expression level difference for each latent factor. Many factors differed in expression in individual cases, though none did so in all cases nor in a consistent-sign manner:

      Author response image 1.

      Difference between host and sibling expression of gene-expression latent factors for each of the 12 factors computed (using PEER) from the single-cell dataset. For a given factor, the factor expression value of the sibling-genome cells is subtracted from that of the host-genome cells and the difference is divided by the maximum of the absolute value of all elements in that factor.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      In the introduction (line 62), the authors mention that chimerism might have shaped behavior in marmosets (and perhaps been selected for). It would be helpful to see this revisited in the discussion. Is it possible that additional genetic variation in immune cells (resident and circulating) provides adaptive benefits and/or disease resistance? In the case of microglia, could the proportion of sibling cells be related (either positively or negatively) to local/regional pathology?

      We liked this suggestion and have added the following in the Discussion:

      “Chimerism could also enable interesting future analyses of whether there are adaptive benefits of chimerism in marmoset immune cells, among whom chimerism could in principle allow presentation of a wider variety of antigens for adaptive immunity. In a recent outbreak of yellow fever in Brazil in 2016-2018, marmosets were found to be less susceptible than other primates that lack immune system chimerism, including the howler monkeys (Alouatta), robust capuchins (Sapajus), and titi monkeys (Callicebus) (de Azebedo Fernandes, et al., 2021). In studying future outbreaks in marmosets, one could use single-cell RNA-seq and the methods described here to study how genetically distinct immune cells (in the same animal) have differentially migrated to affected tissues and/or assumed "activated" immune cell states. Recent innovations in spatial transcriptomics with sequencing readouts (that detect SNP alleles) may also make it possible to identify any differential recruitment of genetically distinct immune cells to focal infection sites.”

      Minor comments:

      L300 delete "temporal.”

      We have revised the text accordingly.

      L305: "more-restricted" should not be hyphenated.

      We have revised the text accordingly.

      L309: "from the non-cell" - delete "the.”

      We have revised the text accordingly.

      L367: Louvain, not Louvaine.

      We have revised the text accordingly.

      Figure 2B can be removed - it does not add much information and takes up a lot of space.

      We have moved Figure 2B to panel J Supplementary Fig. 1 (it is now displayed together with all other animals).

      The same can be said for Figure 4B, which is too tiny. There might be more effective ways to show this variation across animals.

      We have moved Figure 4B to Supplementary Fig. 4 and we have increased the font sizes to make the text in the figures more readable.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I would suggest providing some basic information about the sources of study animals within the main text. At a minimum, it would be useful to state which colonies are represented in the data, and if there is anything significant about the individual animal histories (e.g. prior exposure to surgical intervention or infectious disease). I believe this basic information should be in the main text, despite the inclusion of a broader range of information in the supplements.

      We appreciate this suggestion and revised lines 143 to 149 of the main text as follows:

      “All animals come from the three main marmoset colonies that comprise the animals in our facilities: New England Primate Research Center (NEPRC), CLEA Japan, and from a non-clinical contract research organization. All adult marmosets had no known previous disease and were selected as part of a larger project to create a single-cell atlas of the marmoset brain (Krienen et al., 2020; Krienen et al., 2023). The three neonates died shortly after birth due to unknown reasons and were subsequently selected for snRNA-seq analysis.”

      I would include the species name (Callithrix jacchus) in line 48.

      “On lines 47-48, we now indicate the name of the genus: “Chimerism is common, however, in the Callitrichidae family that consists of the marmosets (Callithrix) and their close relatives the tamarins (Saguinus)...”

      Then on line 65, we now indicate the species name: “Here, we analyze chimerism in the common marmoset (Callithrix jacchus) brain, liver, kidney and blood,...”

      The word "organisms" in line 59 should be "organs.”

      We have modified the text accordingly.

      Lines 100-101: I would suggest this would be clearer to readers if it read: "The relative likelihoods of the original source of each cell could be strongly...".

      We have modified the text accordingly.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study aims to investigate the development of infants' responses to music by examining neural activity via EEG and spontaneous body kinematics using video-based analysis. The authors also explore the role of musical pitch in eliciting neural and motor responses, comparing infants at 3, 6, and 12 months of age.

      Strengths:

      A key strength of the study lies in its analysis of body kinematics and modeling of stimulus-motor coupling, demonstrating how the amplitude envelope of music predicts infant movement, and how higher musical pitch may enhance auditory-motor synchronization.

      Weaknesses:

      The neural data analysis is currently limited to auditory evoked potentials aligned with beat timing. A more comprehensive approach is needed to robustly support the proposed developmental trajectory of neural responses to music.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment and would like to clarify that there has been a misunderstanding: our EEG analyses were time-locked to actual tone onsets, not to expected beat positions. For both music and shuffled conditions, ERPs were computed by epoching around all real auditory events present in each stimulus. This approach ensures that the AEPs reflect neural responses to actual auditory events rather than to predicted or expected events that do not exist in the shuffled stimuli. We have now clarified this further in the revised manuscript (p. 9).

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Infants' auditory brain responses reveal processing of music (clearly different from shuffled music patterns) from the age of 3 months; however, they do not show a related increase in spontaneous movement activity to music until the age of 12 months.

      Strengths:

      This is a nice paper, well designed, with sophisticated analyses and presenting clear results that make a lot of sense to this reviewer. The additions of EEG recordings in response to music presentations at 3 different infant ages are interesting, and the manipulation of the music stimuli into shuffled, high, and low pitch to capture differences in brain response and spontaneous movements is good. I really enjoyed reading this work and the well-written manuscript.

      Weaknesses:

      I only have two comments. The first is a change to the title. Maybe the title should refer to the first "postnatal" year, rather than the first year of life. There are controversies about when life really starts; it could be in the womb, so using postnatal to refer to the period after birth resolves that debate.

      Thank you very much for your thoughtful suggestion regarding the title. To ensure clarity and to unambiguously indicate that our study focuses on the period after birth, we agree that specifying "first postnatal year” in the title is appropriate. We have revised the title accordingly.

      The other comment relates to the 10 Principal Movements (PMs) identified. I was wondering about the rationale for identifying these different PMs and to what extent many PMs entered in the analyses may hinder more general pattern differences. Infants' spontaneous movements are very variable and poorly differentiated in early development. Maybe, instead of starting with 10 distinct PMs, a first analysis could be run using the combined Quantity of Movements (QoM) without PM distinctions to capture an overall motor response to music. Maybe only 2 PMs could be entered in the analysis, for the arms and for the legs, regardless of the patterns generated. Maybe the authors have done such an analysis already, but describing an overall motor response, before going into specific patterns of motor activation, could be useful to describe the level of motor response. Again, infants provide extremely variable patterns of response, and such variability may potentially hinder an overall effect if the QoM were treated as a cumulated measure rather than one with differentiated patterns.

      We agree that due to the high variability and limited differentiation of infant motor responses at this age, it is important to consider an overall measure of movement in addition to specific PMs. To address exactly this, we had included an analysis in which we combined all 10 PMs into a single global QoM metric. This ‘All PMs’ measure reflects the overall motor response to the different auditory stimuli. For clarity, this result is presented in Figure 5, where we show the denoised global QoM signal and highlight the observed Condition × Age interaction (which averaged QoM for all PMs and is therefore equivalent to QoM without PM distinction). We now emphasize this analysis more clearly in the Results section (p. 16).

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study provides a detailed investigation of neural auditory responses and spontaneous movements in infants listening to music. Analyses of EEG data (event-related potentials and steady-state responses) first highlighted that infants at 3, 6, and 12 months of age and adults showed enhanced auditory responses to music than shuffled music. 6-month-olds also exhibited enhanced P1 response to high-pitch vs low-pitch stimuli, but not the other groups. Besides, whole body spontaneous movements of infants were decomposed into 10 principal components. Kinematic analyses revealed that the quantity of movement was higher in response to music than shuffled music only at 12 months of age. Although Granger causality analysis suggested that infants' movement was related to the music intensity changes, particularly in the high-pitch condition, infants did not exhibit phase-locked movement responses to musical events, and the low movement periodicity was not coordinated with music.

      Strengths:

      This study investigates an important topic on the development of music perception and translation to action and dance. It targets a crucial developmental period that is difficult to explore. It evaluates two modalities by measuring neural auditory responses and kinematics, while cross-modal development is rarely evaluated. Overall, the study fills a clear gap in the literature.

      Besides, the study uses state-of-the-art analyses. All steps are clearly detailed. The manuscript is very clear, well-written, and pleasant to read. Figures are well-designed and informative.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Differences in neural responses to high-pitch vs low-pitch stimuli between 6-month-olds and other infants are difficult to interpret.

      We agree with the reviewer that the differences in neural responses to high-pitch versus low-pitch stimuli between 6-month-olds and other infants are difficult to interpret. We have offered several possible explanations for these findings, including developmental changes in auditory plasticity, social interaction effects, maturation of the auditory system, and arousal or exposure differences. If the reviewer has additional perspectives or alternative explanations, we would be very pleased to incorporate them into the revised manuscript.

      (2) Making some links between the neural and movement responses that are described in this manuscript could be expected, given the study goal. Although kinematic analyses suggested that movement responses are not phase-locked to the music stimuli, analyses of Granger causality between motion velocity and neural responses could be relevant.

      We appreciate the suggestion that exploring links between neural and movement responses would be valuable, especially given the study's goals. We were initially cautious about interpreting potential Granger-causal relations between neural and motor activity, as temporal scale differences between the two measures can easily bias directionality estimates. Neural responses typically occur on the scale of milliseconds, whereas movement unfolds over seconds. As a result, an apparent directional relation might emerge simply due to these intrinsic timescale differences rather than reflecting genuine causal influence.

      Nevertheless, we agree that this relationship warrants further investigation and added the following analyses to the supplements (p. 9). Accordingly, we conducted additional exploratory analyses to examine whether ERP amplitudes correlated with movement measures. To this end, we computed correlations between neural and movement responses using participant-averaged data (not single trials). For neural measures, we extracted mean ERP amplitudes in the time window post-tone-onset encompassing the P1 component derived from cluster-based analyses. For movement measures, we used: (1) total movement quantity (mean velocity across the entire trial), and (2) Granger causality F-values reflecting music-to-movement coupling strength. These analyses included comparisons between music and shuffled music conditions, as well as between high- and low-pitch conditions. We therefore ran two linear mixed-effects models, with ERP amplitudes as response variables and either QoM or Granger causality F-values as fixed effects. Infants were modelled as random intercepts. Our results showed no significant correlations between ERP amplitudes and movement quantity, irrespective of conditions (p>.124), and neither when comparing music vs shuffled music (p>.111) nor when comparing high vs low pitch (p>.071) across all age groups. We also do not find significant correlations between ERP amplitudes and Granger causality F-values, irrespective of conditions (p>.164), and when comparing music vs shuffled music (p>.494) or high vs low pitch (p>.175) across all age groups. The absence of robust correlations suggests that neural sensitivity to musical structure (as indexed by ERPs) and motor responsiveness to music (as indexed by movement quantity or coupling strength) develop somewhat independently during the first year of life. This dissociation aligns with broader developmental theories proposing that perceptual sensitivity often precedes and enables later motor coordination, rather than developing together.

      (3) The study considers groups of infants at different ages, but infants within each group might be at different stages of motor development. Was this assessed behaviorally? Would it be possible to explore or take into account this possible inter-individual variability?

      We agree this is important. Infants in each age group were within a quite narrow age range (3 months: M=113.04 days, SD=5.68 days, Range=98-120 days, 6 months: M=195.88 days, SD=9.46 days, Range=182-211 days,12-13 months: M=380.44 days, SD=14.93 days, range=361-413 days), as detailed in the sample description on p. 37. Despite this, we asked parents to report on infants' major motor milestones, specifically their ability to sit and/or walk. At 6 months, 25% of infants were able to sit (N = 20), and at 12 months, 50% of infants were able to walk (N = 18). Given the relatively small group sizes for these milestones, we are concerned that conducting detailed analyses could yield unstable or misleading results that may not generalize beyond our sample. Therefore, we chose to focus on broader analyses that are more robust given our current dataset. We fully support your suggestion that future studies with larger samples and more comprehensive motor assessments will better clarify these developmental trajectories.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      While the analysis and findings on auditory-evoked spontaneous movement are highly interesting, the results from the neural data raise questions about the genuine role of music in the observed evoked and induced responses.

      General comments on the findings related to neural data

      (1) The main neural finding is a larger response in the Music condition compared to the Shuffled Music condition. To address their hypothesis, the authors computed the AEP to tones at the beat position and compared responses between the Music and Shuffled Music conditions, aligning the onset to the expected beat position. However, given that inter-onset intervals were permuted in the Shuffled condition, an AEP time-locked to the expected beat position is not meaningful, as no tone is expected at that time. Therefore, it is expected to have a relatively flat AEP in response to the shuffled condition. Furthermore, given the reduced regularity in the Shuffled condition, the observed difference in ASSR at the beat frequency is expected. Similar results could be obtained using an isochronous sequence of pure tones and a shuffled version of the same sequence. Therefore, these two analyses do not strongly support the conclusion of infants' enhanced neural responses to music.

      The authors could consider comparing AEPs by aligning onsets in the Shuffled condition to the actual tone positions, potentially focusing only on tones with sufficiently long preceding and following IOIs to avoid confounds from short intervals. The two conditions could then be compared with correction for the number of tones. Potential differences in this case could have suggested an impact beyond the auditory evoked responses.

      We agree that ASSR analyses at the beat frequency is not enough to evidence enhanced neural responses to music. However, we would like to clarify that for the AEP analyses, the EEG data were epoched to all actual tone onsets rather than the expected beat positions, therefore adding to the ASSR analysis. Thus, for the shuffled music condition, the EEG was aligned with the real tone onsets present in that sequence, not with hypothetical beat positions derived from a regular rhythm. This approach ensures that the AEPs reflect neural responses to actual auditory events rather than to predicted or expected events that do not exist in the shuffled stimuli.

      We further clarify this in the results section on p. 9

      “Figure 2 shows the average ERPs to the bassline notes in the auditory stimuli, with EEG data time-locked to actual tone onsets (see Methods for details).”

      Finally, following the reviewer’s suggestion, we carried out three control analyses: 1) including only epochs corresponding to bassline tones whose prior inter-onset interval (IOI) exceeded the median IOI duration, 2) including only epochs corresponding to bassline tones whose subsequent IOI exceeded the median IOI duration, and 3) including only epochs corresponding to both melody and bassline tones whose prior and subsequent IOI exceeded the median IOI duration. These analyses yielded event-related potentials in the shuffled music condition that were highly similar to those obtained when all epochs were included (see Figure S1). Therefore, the greater neural response to music compared with shuffled music likely reflects an effect of predictability in the musical condition or, more generally, infants’ disengagement with the shuffled stimuli.

      It would also be helpful to see whether the authors explored other approaches for evaluating neural responses across conditions, such as brain-stimulus synchronization, coherence measures, or temporal response functions (TRF), and whether these yielded comparable results.

      Thank you for this question. We have not explored these approaches, but we agree that alternative methods for evaluating neural responses, such as brain-stimulus synchronization, coherence measures, or temporal response functions (TRF), could offer complementary insights. Given the scope and focus of the present work, and the already extensive set of neural and behavioral measures reported, we chose to prioritize analyses most directly relevant to our initial research questions. Incorporating further methods might risk complicating the narrative and obscuring the key findings. We appreciate the value of these additional methods and consider them promising avenues for future investigations.

      (2) Another important finding concerns the difference in AEPs between the High Pitch and Low Pitch conditions in 6-month-old infants, a pattern not observed in the younger (3-month) or older (12-month and adult) groups. The authors interpret this as heightened sensitivity to high-pitch sounds, typical of infant-directed speech. However, the absence of this effect at 12 months raises questions. It would be helpful to consider whether this pattern may be influenced by data quality differences across age groups. Additionally, the authors could discuss this observation in relation to studies showing stronger neural tracking of rhythms in infants, particularly for low-frequency sounds (e.g., Lenc et al., Developmental Science, 2022).

      This is an interesting consideration that we investigated further. Regarding data quality differences, we considered different measures and now report these in the methods section (p. 30) and supplements (p. 1).

      “We conducted two analyses to compare the EEG data quality across age groups. First, we compared the number of trials that were included in the final analysis per age group. The trial number did not differ significantly across age groups (p > .361). Second, we calculated the SNR by dividing the EEG power at the frequency of interest (i.e., 2.25 Hz, matching the musical beat) by the background noise in surrounding bins (3rd to 5th bin, see ASSR methodology for further details; c.f., Christodoulou et al., 2018; Cirelli et al., 2014). This division yields a signal-to-noise ratio that can be averaged across conditions and compared across age groups to assess variations in signal quality (especially when focusing on the pitch conditions with the same beat frequency). Here, we find that all three age groups show considerable SNR above 1 (3m: M = 2.569, SD = 1.104; 6m: M = 2.743, SD = 1.001; 12m: M = 1.907, SD = 0.749), with no statistically significant differences (three t-tests, FDR-corrected, p > .134). Importantly, our key comparison of High vs. Low Pitch was performed within each age group, thus controlling for any overall differences in signal quality across groups. Together, these two analyses indicate that signal quality was comparable across age groups.”

      Overall, these control analyses seem to support the observed high-pitch sensitivity in the neural response of 6-month-olds, specifically, and in line with previous research investigating this age range (Trainor & Zacharias, 1998; Fernald & Kuhl, 1987). What is more is that there might be some particular changes towards the end of the first year that mark infants’ widening of their attention towards others (beyond their primary caregivers) and objects in their environment (Cooper et al., 1997; Newman & Hussain, 2006), as well as a decrease in exposure to face-to-face interactions with their primary caregivers (Jayaraman et al., 2015). Taken together, research shows that infants' preference for infant-directed speech decreases significantly between 4.5 and 9 months, coinciding with developmental changes in attentional systems and social interaction patterns. This might explain the absence of high-pitch sensitivity in 12-month-olds. However, further research is needed to determine if and in which contexts high-pitch sensitivity to music changes throughout infancy.

      We also edited the discussion in order to compare our results to those of Lenc et al., 2023, p. 23: “It should also be noted that our musical stimuli comprised polyphonic (two-voice) music, carrying sound frequencies falling within the typical range of infant-directed song (~200-400 Hz, Cirelli et al., 2020; Nguyen, Reisner, et al., 2023b; Trainor & Zacharias, 1998). As such, our results might specifically speak for infants’ ability to separate (and prioritize among) simultaneous communicative auditory streams (Marie & Trainor, 2013; Trainor, 2015). Indeed, other studies presenting one-voice pure tone sequences (single isochronous and isotonous tones) with high vs. low pitch - notably at frequencies outside our range (130 vs. 1237 Hz) - have reported stronger neural responses to relatively low frequencies (Lenc et al., 2023). Together, these contrasting observations suggest that pitch prioritization changes not only throughout development but also depends on the polyphonic complexity and spectral characteristics of the perceived stimuli. Further research might investigate this interesting issue further.”

      (3) It would also be helpful if the authors provided more detailed information on the stimuli, including both temporal/rhythmic and spectral content, for the original music, high-pitch and low-pitch variations, and shuffled versions.

      Absolutely. We agree that this is important to report. We have added a Table to the Results (Table 1) and a Table S1 with M, SD and range of the envelope to further describe the temporal and spectral features of the Stimuli.

      General comments on the findings related to body kinematics

      (4) Quantification of movement based on the PMs did not lead to any differences between the High Pitch and Low Pitch conditions. However, Granger causality showed high prediction strength for the High Pitch condition. In the discussion, the authors proposed that high-pitch music might have led to higher arousal. If this were the case, one might expect to observe increased movement in the High Pitch condition relative to the Low Pitch condition in the PM analyses. I propose that the authors revise the discussion to address the misalignment between different findings.

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting this important point and welcome the suggestion to clarify the relationship between movement quantification based on principle movements (PM) and the Granger causality results. We agree that the apparent discrepancy between these measures merits further clarification. We note that the discrepancy suggests that Granger causality may capture subtler temporal coordination between movements and the music, rather than gross movement magnitude. We have incorporated this reasoning into the revised discussion paragraph (page 23-24), which now reads as:

      “If increased arousal were to result in greater overall movement, we would expect higher movement levels in the high pitch condition; however, this was not observed. QoM analyses based on the PMs did not reveal significant differences between the high pitch and low pitch conditions. This discrepancy may arise because Granger causality captures subtler temporal coordination between movement and music rather than gross movement quantity. Thus, high-pitch music may modulate the timing and coordination of motor responses without necessarily increasing the overall amount of movement. In line with prior work (e.g., Bigand et al., 2024), this interpretation emphasizes that musical coordination often involves changes in coupling strength rather than movement quantity per se.”

      (5) The authors report a lack of periodicity and phase-locked movement in infants. Considering the developmental stage, I assume that spontaneous movements to music have emerged over short periods during each exposition period. Probably to further investigate movement periodicity, which has been previously suggested, the authors can first automatically extract periods of periodic movement and further evaluate the tempo/frequency and synchronization with the stimulus during these specific periods.

      We thank the reviewer for this thoughtful suggestion. We conducted similar analyses prior to submission, using methods comparable to previous studies (Fujii et al., 2014). These analyses did not yield additional insights beyond those already presented in the manuscript, so we opted not to include them initially. For completeness, we briefly mention these results on p. 19:

      “Robustness analyses based on thresholding of variation in the time series to identify movement burst epochs (similar to Fujii et al., 2014) yielded consistent results. No significant movement-to-music synchronization was found across age groups (all ps > .563).“

      It is important to clarify that while movement periodicity in infants listening to music has been previously suggested, the evidence for actual synchronization to musical beats remains limited and has been frequently misinterpreted in the literature. The seminal study by Zentner and Eerola (2010) is often cited as evidence for infant rhythmic entrainment, but their findings actually demonstrated tempo flexibility rather than synchronization, i.e., infants moved faster when the music was faster. Similarly, Fujii et al. (2014) found that while individual infants showed some movement-to-music coordination, this occurred in only 2 out of 11 tested infants (18%), and the authors emphasized that "movement-to-music synchronization is rare in infants and observed at an individual level".

      (6) A last general comment is that the authors try to explain the findings of the current study, providing hypotheses, for instance, on the origin of differences in the neural response to high and low pitch only at 6 months. It would be helpful if the authors also consider the misalignment of results with previous findings.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment and acknowledge the importance of placing our findings in the context of prior research on infant pitch perception, including some apparent inconsistencies such as those noted for Lenc et al. (2023), which we have addressed in our response to comment 2. We agree that results inevitably vary across studies due to differences in methods, stimuli, and participant samples—all factors that contribute to some variability in developmental trajectories observed in the literature.

      Importantly, our observation of a transient difference in neural responses to high versus low pitch emerging at 6 months aligns with existing evidence indicating significant neural reorganization occurring around this age (Carr et al., 2022) and continuing toward 12 months (Kuhl et al., 2014). This may reflect a sensitive developmental window during which infants show heightened sensitivity to prosodic features important for early social and communicative interactions. After this window, attentional and auditory processing priorities shift, which could explain the subsequent decline in pitch sensitivity.

      We emphasize that these interpretations are preliminary, and further systematic investigations—preferably longitudinal studies incorporating diverse pitch ranges and multimodal attentional and neural measures—are needed to delineate the developmental course of pitch sensitivity comprehensively.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Thank you for the opportunity to read this interesting work.

      Thank you for the constructive comments.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) I would suggest replacing "first year of life" with "first post-natal year".

      Thank you for the suggestion. In line with yours and Reviewer #2’s comments, we have revised the title to “first postnatal year”.

      (2) Precising the music paradigm and the stimuli nature/timing would be useful at the beginning of the Results section.

      We agree and have added two tables (Table 1 and Table S1 for continued information on the envelope) for further information about the paradigm and stimuli to the beginning of the results section (p.8).

      In addition, the stimuli are also shared on a repository: https://doi.org/10.48557/DCSCFO.

      (3) Since the infants moved during the experiment, EEG data might show movement artefacts. Was the approach used to correct these artefacts satisfactory, even in 12-month-olds who moved more?

      We appreciate the reviewer’s important question regarding artifact correction in infant EEG data, especially given increased movement in older infants. We recognize that movement-related artifacts are an inherent challenge in EEG recordings with infants, and complete elimination of such artifacts is technically difficult (if not impossible). However, several points support the robustness of our ERP findings despite spontaneous movement:

      First, we used a two‐stage pipeline to maximize artifact removal without bias: First, Artifact Subspace Reconstruction (ASR) repaired brief, high‐variance artifacts by reconstructing contaminated channels from clean data. Second, Independent Component Analysis (ICA, as implemented in ICLabel) decomposed the ASR‐cleaned EEG into independent components, allowing us to remove residual non‐neural artifacts (e.g., eye movements) based on their spatial and spectral features. Both ASR and ICA operate agnostically to condition or age group and automatically, without subjective decisions, ensuring unbiased cleaning and reliable ERP comparisons.

      As noted in the response to R1 Comment (2), we also compared the EEG data quality across age groups and conditions. The trial number did not differ significantly across age groups (p > .361). Second, we calculated the SNR by dividing the EEG power at the frequency of interest and found no statistically significant differences across age groups (three t-tests, FDR-corrected, p > .134). Together, these two analyses indicate that signal quality was comparable across age groups.

      Infant movements during the session were sporadic and, most importantly not time-locked to tone onsets (see Fig S2). Because artifact rejection (namely, Artifact Subspace Reconstruction and Independent Component Analysis) discarded only those epochs containing large, transient artifacts irrespective of condition, residual movement-related noise would not systematically inflate ERPs.

      (4) The timing of the P200 response peak could be specified in adults as for infants.

      The timing of the P200 in adults is mentioned on page 9: “[…] a second positivity peaking at 158 ms post-stimulus (so-called “P200”, here reaching an amplitude of 0.85 µV).” The timing of the infant P2 is specified on p 10 and 11: “The P2 ranged between 307 and 325 ms post-stimulus and peaked at 316 ms, reaching an average amplitude of 1.026 µV.”

      (5) In infants, the evocation of "peaking at 212ms" is not completely clear: does this timing correspond to the P1 peak at 3 months of age or to the time when the response to music was enhanced compared to shuffled music?

      Thank you for highlighting the need for greater clarity regarding the timing of the P1 peak and its relation to the observed enhancement. We have revised the text to explicitly state that 212 ms corresponds to the P1 peak in 3-month-old infants within the window where the response to music was significantly enhanced compared to shuffled music.

      p.9: “Importantly, and in line with the adults’ data, all infant groups exhibited enhanced P1 amplitudes in response to music compared to shuffled music. Cluster-based permutation (nPerm=1000) testing revealed that 3-month-old infants’ P1 amplitude was enhanced between 177 and 305 ms post-stimulus (cluster-t=1111.90, p=.002). Within this window, the P1 peaked at 212 ms and reached an amplitude of 1.8 µV.”

      (6) It might be useful to put the results of this study into perspective with other studies of infant motor development (e.g., Hinnekens et al, eLife 2023).

      Thank you for pointing out this study. We have integrated the Hinnekens et al. (2023) findings into our discussion of infant motor development toward dance-like behaviors. p.22 “Taking a broader perspective on infants’ motor development, our findings align with research on locomotion across the first 14 months of life, which shows that as the number of motor primitives increases, their intrinsic variability decreases (Hinnekens et al., 2023). Viewed together, these patterns point toward a gradual refinement of motor control: the human motor system first develops the capacity to control individual muscles, and gradually to integrate them into motor synergies that support complex, coordinated behaviours, such as locomotion, musical synchronization, and dance.”

      (7) Regarding the progressive maturation of the auditory/linguistic pathways during infancy, the authors might also refer to (Dubois et al, Cerebral Cortex 2016).

      Thank you for the suggestion. We added the study to the discussion on page 22: “This developmental trajectory aligns with neuroimaging evidence showing that while the ventral linguistic pathway (connecting temporal and frontal regions via the extreme capsule) is well-established at birth, the dorsal pathway—particularly the arcuate fasciculus connecting temporal regions to inferior frontal areas—continues maturing throughout the first postnatal months, with different maturational timelines for dorsal versus ventral connections (Dubois et al., 2016).“

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This manuscript addresses an important methodological issue - the fragility of meta-analytic findings - by extending fragility concepts beyond trial-level analysis. The proposed EOIMETA framework provides a generalizable and analytically tractable approach that complements existing methods such as the traditional Fragility Index and Atal et al.'s algorithm. The findings are significant in showing that even large meta-analyses can be highly fragile, with results overturned by very small numbers of event recodings or additions. The evidence is clearly presented, supported by applications to vitamin D supplementation trials, and contributes meaningfully to ongoing debates about the robustness of meta-analytic evidence. Overall, the strength of evidence is moderate to strong, though some clarifications would further enhance interpretability.

      Strengths:

      (1) The manuscript tackles a highly relevant methodological question on the robustness of meta-analytic evidence.

      (2) EOIMETA represents an innovative extension of fragility concepts from single trials to meta-analyses.

      (3) The applications are clearly presented and highlight the potential importance of fragility considerations for evidence synthesis.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The rationale and mathematical details behind the proposed EOI and ROAR methods are insufficiently explained. Readers are asked to rely on external sources (Grimes, 2022; 2024b) without adequate exposition here. At a minimum, the definitions, intuition, and key formulas should be summarized in the manuscript to ensure comprehensibility.

      (2) EOIMETA is described as being applicable when heterogeneity is low, but guidance is missing on how to interpret results when heterogeneity is high (e.g., large I²). Clarification in the Results/Discussion is needed, and ideally, a simulation or illustrative example could be added.

      (3) The manuscript would benefit from side-by-side comparisons between the traditional FI at the trial level and EOIMETA at the meta-analytic level. This would contextualize the proposed approach and underscore the added value of EOIMETA.

      (4) Scope of FI: The statement that FI applies only to binary outcomes is inaccurate. While originally developed for dichotomous endpoints, extensions exist (e.g., Continuous Fragility Index, CFI). The manuscript should clarify that EOIMETA focuses on binary outcomes, but FI, as a concept, has been generalized.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The study expands existing analytical tools originally developed for randomized controlled trials with dichotomous outcomes to assess the potential impact of missing data, adapting them for meta-analytical contexts. These tools evaluate how missing data may influence meta-analyses where p-value distributions cluster around significance thresholds, often leading to conflicting meta-analyses addressing the same research question. The approach quantifies the number of recodings (adding events to the experimental group and/or removing events from the control group) required for a meta-analysis to lose or gain statistical significance. The author developed an R package to perform fragility and redaction analyses and to compare these methods with a previously established approach by Atal et al. (2019), also integrated into the package. Overall, the study provides valuable insights by applying existing analytical tools from randomized controlled trials to meta-analytical contexts.

      Strengths:

      The author's results support his claims. Analyzing the fragility of a given meta-analysis could be a valuable approach for identifying early signs of fragility within a specific topic or body of evidence. If fragility is detected alongside results that hover around the significance threshold, adjusting the significance cutoff as a function of sample size should be considered before making any binary decision regarding statistical significance for that body of evidence. Although the primary goal of meta-analysis is effect estimation, conclusions often still rely on threshold-based interpretations, which is understandable. In some of the examples presented by Atal et al. (2019), the event recoding required to shift a meta-analysis from significant to non-significant (or vice versa) produced only minimal changes in the effect size estimation. Therefore, in bodies of evidence where meta-analyses are fragile or where results cluster near the null, it may be appropriate to adjust the cutoff. Conducting such analyses-identifying fragility early and adapting thresholds accordingly-could help flag fragile bodies of evidence and prevent future conflicting meta-analyses on the same question, thereby reducing research waste and improving reproducibility.

      Weaknesses:

      It would be valuable to include additional bodies of conflicting literature in which meta-analyses have demonstrated fragility. This would allow for a more thorough assessment of the consistency of these analytical tools, their differences, and whether this particular body of literature favored one methodology over another. The method proposed by Atal et al. was applied to numerous meta-analyses and demonstrated consistent performance. I believe there is room for improvement, as both the EOI and ROAR appear to be very promising tools for identifying fragility in meta-analytical contexts.

      I believe the manuscript should be improved in terms of reporting, with clearer statements of the study's and methods' limitations, and by incorporating additional bodies of evidence to strengthen its claims.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary and strengths:

      In this manuscript, Grimes presents an extension of the Ellipse of Insignificant (EOI) and Region of Attainable Redaction (ROAR) metrics to the meta-analysis setting as metrics for fragility and robustness evaluation of meta-analysis. The author applies these metrics to three meta-analyses of Vitamin D and cancer mortality, finding substantial fragility in their conclusions. Overall, I think extension/adaptation is a conceptually valuable addition to meta-analysis evaluation, and the manuscript is generally well-written.

      Specific comments:

      (1) The manuscript would benefit from a clearer explanation of in what sense EOIMETA is generalizable. The author mentions this several times, but without a clear explanation of what they mean here.

      (2) The authors mentioned the proposed tools assume low between-study heterogeneity. Could the author illustrate mathematically in the paper how the between-study heterogeneity would influence the proposed measures? Moreover, the between-study heterogeneity is high in Zhang et al's 2022 study. It would be a good place to comment on the influence of such high heterogeneity on the results, and specifying a practical heterogeneity cutoff would better guide future users.

      (3) I think clarifying the concepts of "small effect", "fragile result", and "unreliable result" would be helpful for preventing misinterpretation by future users. I am concerned that the audience may be confusing these concepts. A small effect may be related to a fragile meta-analysis result. A fragile meta-analysis doesn't necessarily mean wrong/untrustworthy results. A fragile but precise estimate can still reflect a true effect, but whether that size of true effect is clinically meaningful is another question. Clarifying the effect magnitude, fragility, and reliability in the discussion would be helpful.

      I am very appreciative of the insightful comments you all shared, and in light of them have made several clarifications and revisions. Thank you again, I am grateful to have received such considered feedback and I hope I’ve addressed any outstanding issues. I have replied to each reviewer’s recommendations in this document sequentially for ease of scanning, and am most grateful for the summary strengths and weaknesses, which I am also incorporated into these replies. Thank you again!

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) The manuscript makes the important argument that many meta-analyses are inherently fragile, which aligns with prior work (e.g., PMID: 40999337). Please add the reference to the statements.

      Excellent point, thank you – I’ve expanded the discussion of fragility analysis, and its application to meta-analysis, including this reference.

      (2) The rationale and mathematical underpinnings of the proposed EOI and ROAR methods are not sufficiently explained. While the authors cite Grimes (2022, 2024b), readers are expected to rely heavily on these external sources without adequate exposition in the current paper. This limits the ability to fully evaluate the reasonableness of the methods or to reproduce the approach. I strongly recommend expanding the description of EOI and ROAR within the manuscript.

      I agree fully – I was a little remiss in this scope, as I was worried about overwhelming the reader. However, I was too sparse with detail and have now extended the text this way to describe the methods intuitively as possible (see Discussion, subsection “Ellipse of Insignificance and Region of Attainable Redaction”

      (3) In the Methods, the authors note that EOIMETA is applicable when between-study heterogeneity is low. However, the manuscript provides little guidance on how to interpret results when heterogeneity is high (e.g., larger I² values). I recommend clarifying this issue in the Results or Discussion sections, emphasizing the limitations of EOIMETA under high heterogeneity. Ideally, the authors could include either a small simulation study or an illustrative example to demonstrate the performance of the method in such settings.

      This is an excellent question, and I was remiss for not considering it better in the manuscript. Originally, the simple idea was to just pool the results for EOI, in which case heterogeneity would be an issue. But I then subsequently added weighed-inverse variance methods to account for situations with increased heterogeneity, so my initial comment was not strictly correct. I’ve changed the text in several places, notably in the methods and in the discussion (see reply point 5).

      (4) While EOIMETA is introduced as a generalizable fragility metric for meta-analyses, the illustrative examples would benefit from clearer comparisons with the traditional Fragility Index (FI). Because FI is well established in the RCT literature and familiar to many readers, presenting side-by-side results (e.g., FI at the trial level versus EOIMETA at the meta-analytic level) would provide important context. Such comparisons would also highlight the added value of EOIMETA, underscoring that even when individual trials appear robust under FI, the pooled meta-analysis may remain fragile.

      This is an excellent idea! The new table is given below. Note that traditional FI are not defined for non-significant results, and EOI is ambiguous for counts <2.

      (5) In the Discussion currently states that the Fragility Index (FI) applies only to binary outcomes. This is not entirely accurate. While the original FI was indeed developed for dichotomous endpoints, subsequent methodological work has extended the concept to other data types, including continuous outcomes (continuous fragility index, CFI). The manuscript should acknowledge this distinction: EOIMETA presently focuses on binary outcomes at the meta-analytic level, but FI more broadly is not restricted to binary data. Adding this clarification, with appropriate citations, would improve accuracy and place EOIMETA more clearly within the broader fragility literature.

      Thank you for this catch – clarified now in the discussion:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Typos/inconsistencies/writing clarifications: All table and figure legends and titles are missing a period at the end of each sentence. In the sentence "to be estimated by bootstrap methods. Initially, we ran...", there should be a space between "methods" and "Initially" (line 113).

      Apologies, these are now remedied.

      (2) In Table 2, the total number of patients in the meta-analysis of all 12 studies is reported as 133,262, whereas the text states 133,475 patients. Based on my calculations from Figure 2, the total appears to be 133,262. Could you please clarify this discrepancy?

      Certainly – your calculations are correct. The text figure was a typo based on a very early draft where the summation function was not correctly run, and doubled counted some cases. This was fixed for the figure but not the text. The text should now match, thank you for spotting this. There are some issues with figure 2, which I will address in next few points.

      (3) Regarding this point, the meta-analysis by Zhang et al. (2019) shows some inconsistencies in the reported number of patients in the paper. According to the data provided on GitHub the total number of patients is 37671. However, Table 1 of the paper lists 38538 patients, and the main text states "5 RCTs involving 39168 patients." Similarly, for Guo et al. (2023), the main text reports that the meta-analysis included 11 RCTs with 112165 patients, whereas the table lists 111952, which appears consistent with the data available on GitHub. There is also a discrepancy in Zhang et al. (2022), which cites 61853 patients in the introduction but 61223 patients in Table 1. These inconsistencies should be clarified, as even small discrepancies in reported sample sizes can undermine the credibility of the analyses presented.

      Well-spotted – the incorrect figures are artefacts of an early draft with a double-counting summation function, and I should have spotted them and removed them prior to submission. To clarify, the correct figures from each study (which agree with github data) are given in the corrected table 1.

      Thus, there are 38,538 subjects in the Zhang et al 2019 analysis, which matches the first sheet of the github listing. The confusion comes from sheet 2 which was included only with this, which breaks these events down into events / non-events (hence the total non-events being 37,671) but keeps the old labels. This is needlessly confusing, and accordingly I have re-uploaded the data with correct headers for sheet 2.  This summation problem was also apparent in the total of figure 2, which has been replaced with a correct version now. Thank you for spotting this!

      (4) In line 158, who does "He" refer to? Please clarify this in more detail.

      Apologies, this was a typo and should have read “the” – now corrected.

      (5) The discrepant results of the RCT by Scragg et al. (2018) between the meta-analysis by Zhang et al. and that by Guo et al. could be presented in a table. This could be included as supplementary material or, preferably, in the main text (Results section).

      To avoid confusion, I will add a version of this to the github files for interested users to explore.

      (6) In the legend of Figure 2, a period is missing at the end of the sentence. Additionally, although it is generally understood, it would be helpful to specify that the numbers in parentheses represent the confidence intervals. Please confirm whether these are 95%, 89%, or 99% confidence intervals.

      Apologies, these are 95% CIs. Clarified now in updated legends.

      (7) The statement of "The more recent and robust methods for fragility analysis (EOI) and redaction (ROAR) have potential applications beyond fragile-by-design RCTs, extending to cohort studies, preclinical work, and even ecological studies, as stated by the author" in line 163. Could you please provide references supporting these claims? I believe the relevant references may be included in the EOI paper, but it would be helpful to cite them here as well.

      This has recently been used in new analysis now cited in the introduction with fuller description of method for context. Please see response to reviewer 1, points 2

      (8) Since the study was previously published as a preprint (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2025.08.15.25333793v1.full-text), this should be mentioned in the manuscript.

      Added as a note now.

      (9) It would also be valuable to include a figure illustrating ROAR for the same meta-analyses presented in Figure 1 for EOI, possibly as supplementary material.

      See reply to point 10.

      (10) Finally, it would be interesting to provide plots of both EOI and ROAR for the meta-analyses of all 12 included studies. These graphs could be replicated using the code examples provided by the author in the original EOI and ROAR publications.

      These have now been added to the github repository as supplementary material.

      (11a) Replications of EOI fragility: eoicfunc.R (github): - In the code provided on GitHub, an error occurred in the "EllipseFromEquation" function within eoifunc. This was due to the PlaneGeometry package not being available for the latest version of R. I attempted several installation methods (using devtools, remotes, and GitHub, as well as direct installation from a URL). However, after adjusting the code, I was able to run the analyses. For the full cohort, including all 12 studies using the EOI approach, I obtained a Minimal Experimental Arm only recoding (xi) = 14 and a Minimal Control Arm only recoding (yi) = 15, whereas the authors reported that 5 recodings were sufficient. It appears that differences in code versions or functions might have slightly affected the results. After downgrading R and running the eoic function with PlaneGeometry successfully installed, the fragility index for the EOI approach was 15 rather than 5.

      Apologies for the issue with PlaneGeometry, I will try to fix this for future iterations. The difference you see is an artefact of running EOIFUNC on pooled data, rather than the dedicated EOIMETA function, with the chief difference being that EOIFUNC doesn’t apply WIV correction.  If we simply pool events, this is the output:

      Author response image 1.

      If the reviewer uses the EOIMETA function which employs inverse weighing, then to define each trial we use a vector of events and non-events in each arm. For all the 12 studies, this would be (in R code syntax, or import from github file)

      Author response image 2.

      Then they will obtain:

      Author response image 3.

      If the reviewer runs a simple pooler analysis with weighed inverse correction turned off, they should return a similar answer as a simple eoifunc call, save the zero count correction difference. But EOIMETA weighs the sample, and is reported in main paper.

      (12) I recalculated the eoic function for Zhang et al. (2019) and found a fragility index (dmin) of 1. FECKUP Vector Length: 0.5722. Minimal Experimental Arm Recoding (xi): 0.7738. Minimal Control Arm Recoding (yi): 0.8499.

      This again appears to be an artefact of using eoifunc rather than eoimeta; with eoimeta, which uses WIV to adjust the studies for heterogeneity effects, this is the reported output:

      Author response image 4.

      (13) Using the previous code (before downgrading R and loading PlaneGeometry), I recalculated the EOI for Zhang et al. (2022) and found Minimal Experimental Arm only recoding (xi) = 55 and Minimal Control Arm only recoding (yi) = 59-results slightly closer to those reported by the authors. After properly loading PlaneGeometry, I recalculated and obtained for Zhang et al. (2022): Fragility index (dmin) = 57; FECKUP Vector Length = 39.948; Minimal Experimental Arm Recoding (xi) = 54.5436; Minimal Control Arm Recoding (yi) = 58.635.

      Again this appears to be a difference in using eoifunc or eoimeta as a call -  I can replicate this result using EOIFUNC:

      Author response image 5:

      But adjusting for study weighing with eoimeta:

      Author response image 6.

      (14) For Guo et al. (2022), the EOI fragility index was 17 [dmin = 17]. FECKUP Vector Length: 11.3721. Minimal Experimental Arm Recoding (xi): -15.6825. Minimal Control Arm Recoding (yi): -16.5167. However, the authors report an EOI fragility of 38. Since I was able to load PlaneGeometry properly and run eoicfunc.R (from GitHub) without errors, the discrepancies likely reflect minor coding or version inconsistencies rather than software limitations.

      These again stem from using eoifunc on simple pooled data versus eoimeta, which adjusts by study.

      (15) Replications of ROAR fragility: roarfunc.R (github): - For Guo et al. (2022), the ROAR fragility calculated using roarfunc.R was 16 [rmin (Redaction Fragility Index) = 16]. FOCK Vector Length: 15.942. Minimal Experimental Arm Redaction (xc): 15.9442. Minimal Control Arm Redaction (yc): 978.8906. In the main text, the author reports a redaction fragility of 37. What might explain these discrepancies?

      Again, this stems from EOIMETA versus EOIFUNC (and roarfunc calls without weighed adjustment). As the reviewer has observed, the fragility increases when there is no study level adjustment, which we have now added to the discussion text.

      (16) In generic_run.R, line 6 contains a bug - it is missing a forward slash (/) between the directory path and the filename. The correct line of code should be: pathload = paste0(pathname, "/", filename, exname). The same issue occurs in generalcode.R.

      Apologies, I will correct this in the upload!

      (17) Theoretical framework: Is there any other method available for comparison besides the one proposed by Atal et al.? Could you include a brief literature review describing alternative approaches?

      To my knowledge, there is not – Xing et al (now referenced) covered this earlier in the year, and I have included an expanded background for this purpose. Please see reply to reviewer 1, point 1.

      (18a) There appears to be no heterogeneity in the meta-analysis in terms of effect sizes and I², likely because most values are quite large, yet the included studies address very different populations (e.g., patients with COPD, NSCLC survivors, older adults, women, and GI cancer survivors). This could have been explained more clearly, including how such diverse literature might influence fragility indices or whether there is a logical rationale for combining these studies. Could you perform a sensitivity analysis or provide a conceptual explanation of how the heterogeneity - or lack thereof - across these trials may affect the fragility indices? Although I² values are small, the conceptual heterogeneity among studies suggests that the pooled results may be comparing fundamentally different clinical contexts, which requires clarification.

      I think this is a very pertinent point, I am unsure as to why these authors combined such diverse populations without any consideration of whether they were comparable, but this is a common problem in meta-analysis. I have added the following to the discussion to address this problem:

      “The use of vitamin D meta-analyses in this work was chosen as illustrative rather than specific, but it is worth noting that there are methodological concerns with much vitamin D research. (Grimes aet al., 2024). The three studies cited in this work report relatively low heterogeneity in their meta-analysis in both effect sizes and I<sup>2</sup> values, but it is worth noting that the included studies addressed very different populations, including patients with Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease, Non small cell lung cancer survivors, women only cohorts, older adults, and gastrological cancer survivors. These groups have presumably different risk factors for cancer deaths, and why the authors of these studies combined the cohorts with fundamentally different clinical contexts is unclear. Why the heterogeneity appeared so relatively low in different groups is also a curious feature. This goes beyond the scope of the current work, but serves as an example of the reality that meta-analysis is only as strong as its underlying data and methodological rigor in comparing like-with-like, and the conclusions drawn from them must always be seen in context.”

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Line 156, acronym FI not defined.

      Apologies, I this is now defined at the outset as “fragility index”.

      (2) Line 158, typo "He"?

      Apologies again, this was a typo and was supposed to read “the”, fixed now.

      (3) Across the manuscript, I think the "re-coding" phrasing may confuse clinical readers. Maybe rephrasing to "flipping event classification" or "flipping group" would be better.

      Excellent point – this has now been modified at the outset.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Although the data are generally solid and well interpreted, a control showing that protein depletion works properly in cell-cycle arrested cells is lacking, both when using siRNAs and degron-based depletion.

      We now demonstrate in Fig. S9 efficient degron-mediated depletion of both NUF2 and SPC24 in cell-cycle arrested cells by Western blotting. We show similar data for siRNA knockdowns. Our siRNA knockdown experiments include a “siDEATH” control that induces cytotoxicity by targeting several essential genes. In Fig. S6a we now show that siDEATH transfection results in strong cytotoxicity and cell death in cycling as well as cell cycle arrested G1/S and G2/M populations indicating efficient protein depletion. Additionally, in Fig. S6b we now show depletion NCAPH2 protein levels by siRNA knockdown in cycling as well as cell cycle arrested cell populations by Western blot analysis. We mention these results on page 11 and page 13.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      The filtering strategy used in the screen imposes significant constraints, as it selects only for non-essential or functionally redundant genes. This is a critical point, as key regulators of chromatin organisation - such as components of the condensin and cohesin complexes-are typically essential for viability. Similarly, known effectors of centromere behaviour (e.g., work by the Fachinetti's lab) often lead to aneuploidy, micronuclei formation, and cell cycle arrest in G1. The implication of this selection criterion should be clearly discussed, as it fundamentally shapes the interpretation of the study's findings.

      We discussed our hit selection criteria on page 8 and in the Methods section. Some of the concerns regarding a bias towards non-essential genes are alleviated by the fact that our screen is limited to a relative short duration of 72 hours rather than the longer timepoints that are generally used to assess essentiality in pooled CRISPR-KO screens, allowing us to identify genes that may be essential if eliminated permanently. In support of this notion, we identify subunits of the essential condensin and cohesin complexes as hits with only limited effect on cell viability. In this case, the Z-score for change in cell number upon NCAPH2 knockout was -0.26 indicating only a mild reduction compared to the average cell number across all targets.

      Other confounding effects on hit selection due to micronuclei formation, cell cycle effects etc. are minimized as we closely monitor micronuclei formation and cell viability in our screen. Finally, aneuploidy is similarly not a confounding factor in hit identification since, as we previously demonstrated, the Ripley’s K-based clustering score is robust to changes in spot number (Keikhosravi, A., et al. 2025).

      A major limitation of the study is the lack of connection between centromere clustering and its biological significance. It remains unclear whether this clustering is a meaningful proxy for higher-order genome organisation. Additionally, the study does not explore potential links to cell identity or transcriptional landscapes. Readers may struggle to grasp the broader relevance of the findings: if gene knockouts that alter centromere positioning do not affect cell viability or cell cycle progression, does this imply that centromere clustering - and by extension, interphase genome organisation - is not biologically significant?

      We appreciate these points. Given the presence of one centromere on each chromosome, we used centromeres as surrogate landmarks of higher-order nuclear genome organization and considered centromere patterns as a general indicator of overall genome organization. While the relationship of centromere patterns to other genome features is poorly understood in mammalian cells, a link is suggested by observations in other organisms. For example, in yeast, the clustering of centromeres reflects the overall Rabl configuration of chromosomes. Having said that, we agree that our extrapolation to overall genome organization is somewhat speculative, and we have toned down these conclusions throughout the manuscript.

      We agree that one of the most interesting questions emerging from our study is whether centromere clustering has a functional role. In follow-up studies we will use some of the key regulator identified in these screens to perturb the native centromere distribution and assay for various cellular responses including in gene expression and genome integrity. These studies will be the subject of future publications.

      Another point requiring clarification is the conclusion that the four identified genes represent independent pathways regulating centromere clustering. In reality, all of these proteins localise to centromeres. For example, SPC24 and NUF2 are components of the NDC80 complex; Ki-67, a chromosome periphery protein, has been mapped to centromeres; and CAP-Hs, a subunit of the condensin II complex that during G1 promotes CENP-A deposition. Given their shared localisation, it would be informative to assess aneuploidy indices following depletion of each factor. Chromosome-specific probes could help determine whether centromere dysfunction leads to general mis-segregation or reflects distinct molecular mechanisms. Additionally, exploring whether Ki-67 mutants that affect its surfactant-like properties influence centromere clustering could provide a more mechanistic insight.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. We now clarify the relationship of these proteins to centromeres in more detail on page 12. While they all have some relationship to centromeres, as would be expected if they contributed to centromere clustering, they represent multiple distinct pathways and processes.

      The observed effects on clustering are unlikely due to aneuploidy as only very limited aneuploidy is observed in our cells and because Ripley’s K measurement of centromere clustering is robust to change in chromosome copy number. Follow-up studies using live cell imaging approaches are currently in progress to address some of these mechanistic questions.

      Finally, the additive effects observed mild mis-segregation effects are amplified when two proteins within the same pathway are depleted. This possibility should be considered in the interpretation of the data.

      We rephrased the text on page 14 based on the reviewer’s recommendations.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Given the authors' suggestion that disorderly mitotic progression underlies the changes in centromere clustering in the subsequent interphase, I think it would be beneficial to showcase examples of disorderly mitosis in the AID samples and perhaps even quantify the misalignment on the metaphase plate.

      We now include in Fig. S11 examples of disordered mitotic nuclei observed in the absence of NUF2 or SPC24.

      I don't quite agree with the description that centromeres cluster into chromocenters (p4 para 2, p17 para 1, and other instances in the manuscript). To the best of my knowledge, chromocenters primarily consist of clustered pericentromeric heterochromatin, while the centromeres are studded on the chromocenter surface. This has been beautifully demonstrated in mouse cells (Guenatri et al., JCB, 2004), but it is true in other systems like flies and plants as well.

      We have modified this description on page 4.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewing Editor Comments:

      (1) Proper characterisation of the cell lines used in the manuscript. Tagged proteins have been known to affect protein levels compared to the parental cell, and where this is the case (or not), it needs to be transparently shown in the manuscript.

      The cell lines to conditionally deplete NCAPH2 and KI67 have previously been published, and they have been characterized to show normal expression levels of the tagged protein (Takagi et al., 2018). We also show quantification of Western blots to compare protein level of tagged SPC24 and NUF2 to that of the untagged proteins in the parental cell line (Fig. S8e-f) and discuss these results on page 11 and page 12.

      (2) Demonstration of protein depletion in the degron cell lines.

      We showed efficient protein depletion in the degron cell lines (Fig. S8c and S8d). In addition, we now show in Fig. S9 depletion of SPC24 and NUF2 in cells arrested at G1/S and G2/M.

      (3) The study examines centromere clustering, but not genome architecture. While it is understood that a complete investigation of genome architecture is beyond the scope of the current study, the interpretation does not match the data. The authors are suggested to pay attention to this point throughout the manuscript and consider their findings in terms of centromere clustering rather than genome architecture, including changing the title accordingly.

      We have toned down our statements regarding overall genome organization throughout the manuscript. Since centromeres are a natural fiducial marker for overall genome organization and a link to overall genome organization has been suggested in some organisms such as yeast, we have retained the wording in a few select instances, including the title. We also make it clear that we do not intend to draw conclusions regarding TADs or even compartments but consider centromere patterns an indicator of overall genome organization.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Controls of depletion by western blot in synchronized cells (siRNAs and degrons) are lacking.

      We now show Western blots demonstrating efficient depletion of the target proteins in degron (Fig. S9) and siRNA treated cell-cycle arrested cells (Fig. S6b).

      It would have been very nice to discuss the implications of these findings further. For example, do centromere clustering changes gene expression/repression of pericentromeric heterochromatin expression? Is centromere clustering associated with specific diseases? How is global chromatin organization affecting gene expression/genome stability, etc? Although some of these aspects are unknown, a discussion about them would have been nice.

      We appreciate these interesting points. These questions are the subject of our ongoing follow up studies. We now discuss possible consequences of centromere re-organization on gene expression and genome stability on page 18.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Major Comments:

      (1) Clarify Scope and Avoid Overinterpretation

      (a) The study exclusively investigates centromere positioning, without addressing broader aspects of genome architecture.

      (b) There is no established link presented between centromere positioning and higher-order genome organisation.

      We have toned down our statements regarding overall genome organization throughout the manuscript. Since centromeres are a natural fiducial marker for overall genome organization and observations in yeast suggest such a link, we have retained the wording in a few select instances. We make it clear that we do not intend to draw conclusions regarding TADs or even compartments but consider centromere patterns an indicator of overall genome organization.

      (c) The exclusion criteria used in the screen should be clearly explained, including the implications of selecting only non-essential or redundant genes.

      We discuss on page 8 and in the Methods section the exclusion criteria used in the screen, including the implications for identifying essential genes.

      (d) The authors should discuss why the identified proteins significantly affect centromere clustering but do not impact cell cycle progression.

      We now discuss this topic briefly on page 9. While some hits are expected to affect both cell-cycle progression and centromere clustering (Fig. S4c), it is not a priori expected that all hits would affect both.

      (2) Supplementary Figure 1

      This figure appears unnecessary. The co-localisation between CENP-C and CENP-A is well established in the literature, and the scoring provided does not add essential new information.

      The data was included in response to repeat questions from a centromere expert. We prefer to retain this data for completeness.

      (3) Differential Hits between Cell Lines 

      For hits that behave differently across cell lines, expression data should be provided. Are the genes equally expressed in both cell types? What is the level of depletion achieved?

      It is possible that cell-type specific hits arise due to difference in expression. Cell-type specific hits may also arise due multiple other reason including cancer vs. non-cancer origin, hTERT-immortalization, cell growth properties, variation in underlying DNA sequences of the Cas9 target loci, initial state of centromere clustering to name a few. Each of these possibilities requires additional experiments to identify the exact reason for cell-type specificity of a given factor. A full analysis of the reason for cell-type specificity is, however, beyond the scope of current study.

      (4) Efficiency of Cell Cycle-Specific Degradation

      Degradation efficiency likely varies across cell cycle stages. The authors should provide Western blots showing the extent of protein depletion at each cell cycle block.

      We provide Western blot data in Fig. S9 to demonstrate efficient knockdown of proteins in G1/S and G2/M arrested cells.

      (5) Figure S6 - Validation of New Cell Lines

      Genotyping data for the newly generated cell lines should be included, along with Western blots using protein-specific antibodies (not just the tag), compared to the parental cell line.

      We provide in Fig. S7c-d genotyping data and in Fig. S8e-f Western blot data to compare levels of tagged and untagged proteins.

      (6) Figure S7 - G2/M Block Efficiency

      The G2/M block appears suboptimal after 20 hours in RO-3306, with only ~50% of cells in G2/M and just 21-27% for Ki-67, where most cells remain in S phase. This raises concerns about the interpretation of mitotic depletion effects. It is possible that cells never progressed from G1 or completed S phase without Ki-67. Prior studies (van Schaik et al., 2022; Stamatiou et al., 2024) have shown delayed and uneven replication of centromeric/pericentromeric regions upon Ki-67 depletion during S phase, which could affect the readout. Live-cell imaging would be a more robust approach to confirm mitotic status.

      For KI67 after RO-3306 treatment, 73 and 67% cells were arrested at the G2/M boundary in the presence or absence of KI67, respectively (Fig. S10a-b). Upon release from G2/M arrest, the proportion of G1 cells increased from 6-13% to 28-60% in all four factors tested (Fig. S10b, and d). Please note that our results are not directly dependent on release efficiency, since we use single-cell staging (Fig. 3b) and selectively analyze only G1 populations (Fig. 5c).

      We are currently working towards live cell imaging, but this requires development and characterization of additional cell lines which is beyond the scope of this study.

      Statistical analyses of cell cycle phase distributions should also be included.

      We include statistical analyses of cell cycle phase distributions in Fig. S4c and Fig. S10c-d by performing t-tests with FDR corrections to compare percentage of cells in either in G1, S or G2 in the presence and absence of each factor tested.

      (7) Aneuploidy Assessment

      Aneuploidy scores for the four key proteins should be provided, ideally using centromere-specific FISH probes.

      While an aneuploidy score for each hit would be interesting piece of information, we showed in a previous publication that the Ripley’s K-based Clustering Score method used here is robust to aneuploidy (Keikhosravi et al., 2025) and aneuploidy would thus not lead to spurious identification of these proteins in our screen.

      (8) Add-Back Experiment (Page 14)

      While the add-back experiment is conceptually strong, its execution could be improved. <br /> It should be performed on synchronised cells: deplete the protein in G2/M, arrest in thymidine, then release into G1 without the protein to observe the unclustering phenotype.

      Re-expression should occur during the block, followed by release and analysis in the next G1 phase. This would better demonstrate whether clustering defects from the previous division can be rescued.

      We have attempted these types of long-term depletion experiments in cell-cycle arrested cells, but have observed significant viability defects, making results uninterpretable.

      (9) Statistical Analyses

      Several figures lack statistical analysis, which is essential for data interpretation:

      (a) Figure 1B-E

      (b) Figure 3I

      (c) Figure 4B

      (d) Figure 5B, C, G

      (e) Supplementary Figures S4B and S7

      Statistical analyses were performed for a) Fig. 1b-e, b) Fig. 3i, c) Fig. 4b, d) Fig. 5b-c and the details of the test are mentioned in the corresponding figure legends. We also include statistical tests for Fig. 5g, S5b and S7c-d.

      Minor Comments:

      (1) Page 9: "Reassuringly, in line with known centromere-nucleoli association (Bury, Moodie et al. 2020, van Schaik, Manzo et al. 2022)..."

      The citation "van Schaik, Manzo et al. 2022" is incorrect and should be revised.

      We have removed this reference.

      (2) Page 10:

      "...were grouped into six categories: regulators of chromatin structure, kinetochore proteins, nucleolar proteins, nuclear pore complex components..."

      The authors should note that NUP160, listed as a nuclear pore complex hit, is also a kinetochore component during mitosis and may be linked to mitotic defects.

      We now mention this on page 10.

      (3) Page 12:

      "Progression through S phase was equally efficient in the presence or absence of KI67."

      While bulk S phase progression may appear unaffected, refined analyses (e.g., Repli-seq, EdU patterning) have shown delayed replication of centromeric/pericentromeric regions upon Ki-67 depletion. This should be acknowledged, especially given the study's focus on centromeres (see Schaik et al., 2022; Stamatiou et al., 2024).

      Our statement was meant to describe the results we observed in this study. We indicate that overall progression is not affected, but subtle effects may persist, and we cite the relevant references on page 13.

      (4) Page 12:

      "KI67 is a well-known marker of cell proliferation..."

      The first study demonstrating the dependency of chromosome periphery on Ki-67 was Booth et al., 2014, which should be cited.

      This citation has been added.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) On page 14, paragraph 1, the authors suggest that NCAPH2 and SPC24 act independently on centromere clustering. I'm not convinced that this is the right interpretation of the data. Rather, the lack of an additive phenotype following NCAPH2 and SPC24 dual depletion suggests to me that these two proteins are acting in the same pathway.

      We show that knockdown of NCAPH2 and SPC24 results in opposite effects in centromere clustering. However, knockdown of SPC24 in NCAPH2-AID cells produces an intermediate level of clustering compared to depletion of NCAPH2 or SPC24 knockdown alone. This indicates additive effects. We have modified our description of these results on p. 14.

      (2) The analysis and experimental design in Figure 5g could be improved. For one, I would add statistical comparisons like the other figure panels. Second, the authors would ideally perform AID depletion in a synchronized G2 population before washout during the subsequent G1. This design might make some of the more subtle changes (e.g., KI67-AID) more obvious.

      We now include statistical analysis in Fig. 5g. We have attempted long-term depletion experiments in cell-cycle arrested cells, but have observed significant viability defects, making results uninterpretable.

      (3) In the discussion, the authors allude to centromere clustering data from the NDC80 complex, HMGA1, and other HMGs but fail to direct the reader to where they may find the data. If these data are in Tables S4 and S5, perhaps the authors could make these tables more reader-friendly?

      For each target, the mean Z-score of two biological replicates based on Clustering Score is located in column H in Table S4 and S5.

      (4) In my opinion, the term 'clustering score' comes across a bit ambiguous. In most cases, this term appears to refer to the distance between centromeric foci but is used occasionally to refer to the number of centromeric spots. For example, on page 9, paragraph 1, line 3, cluster/clustering is used three times but with slightly different meanings. Perhaps the authors can consider using the word 'clustering' to indicate the number of spots, 'dispersion' to indicate distance between centromeres, and 'radial distribution' to indicate distance from the nuclear center? Or other ways to improve the consistency of the descriptive terms.

      We apologize for not being clear. The Clustering Score is a very specific parameter derived from use of a Ripley’s K clustering algorithm as described in Materials and Methods. We now ensure that the term is used correctly throughout and that the other terms are also used consistently.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Weaknesses

      As presented, the manuscript has limitations that weaken support for the central conclusions drawn by the authors. Many of the findings align with prior work on this topic, but do not extend those findings substantially.

      An overarching limitation is the lack of temporal resolution in the manipulations relative to the behavioral assays. This is particularly important for anxiety-like behaviors, as antecedent exposures can alter performance. In the open field and elevated zero maze assays, testing occurred 30 minutes after CNO injection. During much of this interval, the targeted neurons were likely active, making it difficult to determine whether observed behavioral changes were primary - resulting directly from SuM neuronal activity - or secondary, reflecting a stress-like state induced by prolonged activation of SuM and related circuits. This concern also applies to the chronic inhibition of ventral subiculum (vSub) neurons during 10 days of CSDS.

      We appreciate the reviewer's concern regarding the timing of CNO administration relative to behavioral testing. The 30-minute interval was selected according to some previous studies[1, 2]. This window ensures stable and specific neuronal manipulation while minimizing off-target effects and was strictly performed through all experiments. We acknowledge that shorter interval (~15 mins) can be efficient to produce biological effect in vivo[3, 4]. We repeated chemogenetic tests 2-3 times to make sure to get reliable data for statistical analysis. However, we cannot exclude potential side-effects caused by chemogenetically prolonged activation of SuM because of its poor temporal resolution compared to optogenetic manipulation. We agree that employing techniques with higher temporal resolution, such as optogenetics, in future studies would provide an excellent complement to these findings.

      The combination of stressors (foot shock and CSDS) and behavioral assays further complicates interpretation. The precise role of SuM neurons, including SANs, remains unclear. Both vSub and dSub neurons responded to foot shock, but only vSub neurons showed activity differences associated with open-arm transitions in the EZM.

      We agree that the use of multiple stressors (foot shock and CSDS) adds complexity to the interpretation. Our rationale was to test the generality of the SuM response and the role of SANs across different stress modalities (acute vs. chronic). The key finding is that while both vSub and dSub projections to the SuM were activated by the acute stressor of foot shock (Figure 5N-R), only the vSub-SuM pathway showed a significant increase in calcium activity specifically during the anxiety-provoking transition from the closed to the open arms of the EZM (Figure 5I-M). This dissociation suggests a selective role for the vSub-SuM circuit in encoding anxiety-related information, beyond a general response to stress.

      In light of prior studies linking SuM to locomotion (Farrell et al., Science 2021; Escobedo et al., eLife 2024), the absence of analyses connecting subpopulations to locomotor changes weakens the claim that vSub neurons selectively encode anxiety. Because open- and closed-arm transitions are inherently tied to locomotor activity, locomotion must be carefully controlled to avoid confounding interpretations.

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting the important studies linking the SuM to locomotion. We acknowledge this known function and carefully considered it in our analyses. Non-selective activation of the entire SuM didn’t affect total distance traveled in open field and elevated zero maze (Supplemental Figure 2 B-C). Although the locomotion of mice in OF and EZM was affected while targeting SANs, we also compared the travel distance in the central area of OF, to some extent, to minimize the influence of locomotion on the estimation of anxiety produced avoidance to the central area (Figure 4 I). We agree that future work delineating the specific subpopulations within the SuM that regulate locomotion versus anxiety would be highly valuable.

      Another limitation is the narrow behavioral scope. Beyond open field and EZM, no additional assays were used to assess how SAN reactivation affects other behaviors. Without richer behavioral analyses, interpretations about fear engrams, freezing, or broader stress-related functions of SuM remain incomplete.

      In addition, small n values across several datasets reduce confidence in the strength of the conclusions.

      We acknowledge that the primary focus on OF and EZM tests is a limitation in fully characterizing the behavioral profile of SAN manipulation. These tests were selected as they are well-validated, standard assays for anxiety-like behavior in rodents[5–10]. However, we also included the reward-seeking test, where activation of SANs significantly suppressed sucrose consumption (Figure 4L), suggesting a broader impact on motivational state that is often linked to anxiety. We fully agree with the reviewer that employing a richer behavioral battery—such as tests for social avoidance, conditioned place aversion, or Pavlovian fear conditioning—in future studies will be essential to comprehensively define the functional scope of SuM SANs and to conclusively dissect their role from fear memory engrams.

      Figure level concerns:

      (1) Figure 1: In Figure 1, the acute recruitment of SuM neurons by for shock is paired with changes in neural activity induced by social defeat stress. Although interesting, the connections of changes induced by a chronic stressor to Fos induction following acute foot shock are unclear and do not establish a baseline for the studies in Figure 3 on activation of SANs by social stressors.

      Thank you for this important comment. We agree that directly linking acute foot shock-induced cFos expression with chronic social defeat stress (CSDS) electrophysiological changes may create an interpretive gap. In Figure 1, we aimed to demonstrate that both acute (foot shock) and chronic (CSDS) stressors can activate SuM neurons, using complementary methods (cFos for acute, in vivo recording for chronic). We did not intend to imply that the same neuronal population responds identically to both stressors.

      To address this, we have clarified in the text that the purpose of Figure 1 is to show that SuM is responsive to diverse stressors, rather than to establish a direct mechanistic link between acute and chronic activation patterns. The baseline for SAN studies in Figure 3 is established through the TRAP2 tagging protocol following foot shock, independent of the CSDS model. We acknowledge that future studies should compare SAN recruitment across acute vs. chronic stressors to better define their functional overlap.

      (2) Figure 2: The chemogenetic experiments using AAV-hSyn-Gq-DREADDs lack data or images, or hit maps showing viral spread across animals. This omission is critical given the small size of SuM, where viral spread directly determines which neurons are manipulated. Without this, it is difficult to interpret findings in the context of prior studies on SuM circuits involved in threats and rewards.

      Please see Supplemental Figure 2 for the infection area of AAV.

      (3) Figure 3: The TRAP experiments show that the number of labeled neurons following foot shock (Figure 3F) is approximately double that of baseline home-cage animals, though y-axis scaling complicates interpretation. It is unclear whether this reflects true Fos induction, low TRAP efficiency, or baseline recombination.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out the axis scaling issue. We have modified the y-axis to start from 0. The SuM nucleus has been reported to play role in the awake of rodents, it’s reasonable to have some basal neuronal activation after 4-OHT i.p. injection.

      Overlap analyses are also limited. For example, it is not shown what proportion of foot shock SANs are reactivated by subsequent foot shock. Comparisons of Fos induction after sucrose reward are also weakened by the very low Fos signal observed. If sucrose reward does not robustly induce Fos in SuM, its utility in distinguishing reward- versus stress-activated neurons is questionable. Thus, conclusions about overlap between SANs and socially stressed neurons remain uncertain due to the missing quantification of Fos+ populations.

      Thank you for the question. We have replaced the reactivation chance graph with a new reactivation percent analysis graph to show the proportion of SANs that reactivated by subsequent sucrose reward or stress. The rationale we use social stress other than foot shock is to show the potential generality of foot-shock tagged neurons. The lower expression of cFos after sucrose exposure suggest first, the SuM may not involve in reward regulation, which we agree with you; second, those SANs are more likely to modulate anxiety-like behavior but not reward.

      (4) Supplemental Figure 3: The claim that "SANs in the SuM encode anxiety but not fear memory" is not well supported. Inhibition of SANs (Gi-DREADDs) did not alter freezing behavior, but the absence of change could reflect technical issues (e.g., insufficient TRAP efficiency, low expression of Gi-DREADDs). Moreover, the manuscript does not provide a positive control showing that SuM SANs inhibition alters anxiety-like behavior, making it difficult to interpret the negative result. Prior work (Escobedo et al., eLife 2024) suggests SuM neurons drive active responses, not freezing, raising further interpretive questions.

      We agree that here we didn’t provide enough data to confirm there is no regulation effect of SuM-SANs on fear memory. Relevant statement has been removed to avoid any further misunderstanding.

      (5) Figure 4: The statement that corticosterone concentration is "usually used to estimate whether an individual is anxious" (line 236) is an overstatement. Corticosterone fluctuates dynamically across the day and responds to a broad range of stimuli beyond anxiety.

      Thank you for your kind reminder. Corticosterone/cortisol, the primary stress hormone, is a well-established biomarker whose levels are elevated in response to stress and in anxiety states.[11, 12]. Some studies also reported that supplying corticosterone can produce anxiety-like behaviors in rodents[13–16]. We collect the blood sample at the same timepoint in Figure 4 C-D. We agree that line 236 is a kind of overstatement and has modified.

      (6) Figures 5-6: The conclusion that vSub neurons encode anxiety-like behavior is not firmly supported. Data from photo-activating terminals in SuM is shown for ex vivo recording, but not in vivo behavior, which would strengthen support for this conclusion. Both vSub and dSub neurons responded to foot shock. The key evidence comes from apparent differential recruitment during open-arm exploration. However, the timing appears to lag arm entry, no data are provided for closed-arm entry, and there is heterogeneity across animals. These limitations reduce confidence in the authors' central claim regarding vSub-specific encoding of anxiety.

      We thank the reviewer for this important point. To address the concern regarding the in vivo behavioral encoding specificity of the vSub-SuM pathway, we further analyzed the in vivo fiber photometry data. The new analysis revealed that calcium activity in vSub-SuM projection neurons exhibited bidirectional, instantaneous, and specific changes during transitions between the open and closed arms of the elevated plus maze: their activity significantly and immediately decreased when mice moved from the open arm to the closed arm (new results shown in Supplemental Figure 5), and conversely, significantly and immediately increased upon transitioning from the closed to the open arm. However, under the same behavioral events, dSub-SuM projection neurons showed no significant change in activity. We hope this finding could strengthens the role of the vSub-SuM pathway in encoding anxiety-like behavior.

      An appraisal of whether the authors achieved their aims, and whether the results support their conclusions:

      (1) From the data presented, the authors conclude that "the SuM is the critical brain region that regulates anxiety" (line 190). This interpretation appears overstated, as it downplays well-established contributions of other brain regions and does not place SuM's role within a broader network context. The data support that SuM neurons are recruited by foot shock and, to a lesser extent, by acute social stress. However, the alterations in activity of SuM subpopulations following chronic stress reported in Figure 1 remain largely unexplored, limiting insight into their functional relevance.

      Thank you for the suggestion. We have modified the line 190 with cautious “In this study, we combined multiple methods to determine whether the SuM is a brain region that involve in modulating anxiety.”

      (2) The limited temporal resolution of DREADD-based manipulations leaves alternative explanations untested. For example, if SANs encode signals of threat, generalized stress, or nociception, then prolonged activation could indirectly alter behavior in the open field and EZM assays, rather than reflecting direct anxiety regulation.

      We discussed the DREADD method in the first part in our response.

      (3) The conclusion that "SuM store information about stress but not memory" (line 240) is not fully supported, particularly with respect to possible roles in memory. The lack of a role in memory of events, as opposed to the output of threat or stress memory, may be true, but is functionally untested in presented experiments. The data do indicate activation of the SuM neuron by foot shock, which has been previously reported (Escobedo et al eLife 2024). The changes in SuM activity following chronic stress (Figure 1) are intriguing, but their relationship to "stress information storage" is not clearly established.

      Thank you for your valuable comments. Foot-shock-activated neurons may play role in modulate any of the following anxiety-like behaviors and emotional memory (fear memory). We realized that we didn’t fully test all aspects of anxiety and memory, thus resulting in some overstatements in the manuscript. It is more proper to focus on “anxiety avoidance” according to the reduced open-arm exploration in EZM/EPM.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      This manuscript investigates the neural mechanisms of anxiety and identifies the supramammillary nucleus (SuM) as a critical hub in mediating anxiety-related behaviors. The authors describe a population of neurons in the SuM that are activated by acute and chronic stress. While their activity is not required for fear memory recall, reactivation of these neurons after chronic stress robustly increases anxiety-like behaviors as well as physiological stress markers. Circuit analysis further shows that these stress-activated neurons are driven by inputs from the ventral, but not dorsal, subiculum, and inhibition of this pathway exerts an anxiolytic effect.

      The study provides an elegant integration of techniques to link stress, neuronal ensembles, and circuit function, thereby advancing our understanding of the neural substrates of anxiety. A particularly notable point is the selective role of these stress-activated neurons in anxiety, but not in associative fear memory, which highlights functional distinctions between neural circuits underlying anxiety and fear.

      Some aspects would benefit from clarification. For example, how selective is the recruitment of this population to stress compared with other aversive states, and how should one best interpret their definition as "stress-activated neurons" given the relatively modest overlap across stress exposures? In addition, the use of the term "engram" in this context raises conceptual questions. Is it appropriate to describe a neuronal ensemble encoding an emotional state as an engram, a term usually tied to specific memory recall?

      Overall, this work makes a valuable contribution by identifying SuM stress-activated neurons and their ventral subiculum inputs as central elements of the circuitry underlying anxiety. These findings provide a valuable framework for future studies investigating anxiety circuitry and may inform the development of targeted interventions for stress-related disorders.

      We thank the reviewer for raising these important points. We agree that further clarification is warranted. In our study, we compared SAN reactivation across different stimuli: foot shock (acute physical stress), social stress (chronic psychosocial stress), and sucrose reward (non-aversive positive stimulus). As shown in Figure 3, SANs in the supramammillary nucleus (SuM) were significantly reactivated by social stress but not by sucrose reward. Moreover, the c-Fos response in SuM was markedly higher after foot shock compared to home cage controls (Figure 1). While we did not test all possible aversive states (e.g., pain, sickness), our data support that SuM SANs are preferentially recruited by stressors rather than by reward or neutral conditions. We acknowledge that the overlap across stress modalities is not complete, which may reflect differences in stress intensity, duration, or circuit engagement. Future work will systematically compare SAN recruitment across diverse aversive and non-aversive states to further define their selectivity.

      The term “stress-activated neurons” (SANs) here refers to neurons that are reliably activated by at least one type of stressor and can be reactivated by subsequent stress exposure. The partial overlap across stressors likely reflects the diversity of stress responses and the possibility that distinct subpopulations within SuM may encode different aspects of aversive experience. Importantly, chemogenetic activation of SANs was sufficient to induce anxiety-like behavior and elevate corticosterone (Figure 4), supporting their functional role in stress-related behavioral and physiological outputs. We have revised the manuscript to clarify that SANs represent a stress-responsive ensemble rather than a uniform population activated identically by all stressors.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s conceptual caution. In the revised manuscript, we intentionally avoided using the term “engram” to describe SANs. Our focus is on a stress-activated neuronal ensemble that drives anxiety-like behavior, not on memory recall per se. We refer to SANs as an “ensemble” or “population” rather than an engram, consistent with the TRAP-based labeling approach used to capture neurons activated during a specific experience. We agree that “engram” is best reserved for memory-encoding cells and will ensure this distinction remains clear throughout the text.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Weaknesses:

      The strength of some of the evidence is judged to be incomplete. The paper provides good evidence that SuM contains stress-responsive neurons, and the activity of these neurons increases some measure of anxiety-like behavior. However, the evidence that the vSub-SuM projection "encodes anxiety" and that the SuM is a key regulator of anxiety is judged to be incomplete. The claim that SuM generates an "anxiety engram" is also judged to be incompletely supported by the evidence. Namely, what is unclear is whether these cells/regions encode anxiety per se versus modulate behaviors (like exploration) that tend to correlate with anxiety. Since many brain regions respond to footshock and other stressors, the response of SuM to these stimuli is not strong evidence for a role in anxiety. I am not convinced that the identified SuM cells have a specific anxiety function. As the authors mention in the introduction, SuM regulates exploration and theta activity. Since theta potently regulates hippocampal function, there is the concern that SuM manipulations could have broad effects. As shown in Supplementary Figure 2, stimulating stress-responsive cells in SuM potently reduces general locomotor exploration. This raises concerns that the manipulation could have broader effects that go beyond just changes in anxiety-like behavior. Furthermore, the meaning of an "anxiety engram" is unclear. Would this engram encode stress, the sense of a potential threat, or the behavioral response? A more developed analysis of the behavioral correlates of SuM activity and the behavioral effects of SuM manipulations could give insight into these questions.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s thoughtful critique regarding the specificity of SuM’s role in anxiety and the interpretation of our findings. We acknowledge that SuM has broad functions, including regulating exploration and hippocampal theta. However, our data show that general SuM activation increases anxiety-like measures (reduced open-arm time in EZM, decreased center exploration in OF) without altering total locomotion (Fig. 2, Suppl. Fig. 2). The locomotor reduction in SAN activation experiments (Suppl. Fig. 2F–G) was observed alongside clear anxiety-like behavioral changes (e.g. suppressed reward seeking), suggesting that the effects are not solely due to motor suppression. We agree that the methods we used to estimate anxiety-like behaviors base on mice movement when testing, and this could be a shortage of this research when trying to link the data to anxiety. Therefore it will be more proper to interpret the results as modulation of anxiety-like behavior (anxiety related avoidance) but not anxiety itself. We have modified the manuscript to describe more precise to avoid overstatement.

      Our fiber photometry data (Fig. 5) show that vSub–SuM projection neurons increase activity specifically when mice enter open arms of the EZM—a behavioral transition associated with anxiety—whereas dSub–SuM projections do not. This activity correlates with anxiety-related behavior, not merely with movement or stress per se.

      We also agree that the term “engram” may be misleading in this context. In the manuscript, we refer to SANs as a “stress-activated neuronal ensemble” rather than an anxiety engram. Our data indicate that these neurons are recruited by stress and their reactivation produces more anxiety related avoidance to open arms. We have revised the text to avoid conceptual overreach and to clarify that SuM SANs likely contribute to a state of sustained anxiety/avoidance.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewing Editor Comments:

      Should you choose to revise your manuscript, if you have not already done so, please include full statistical reporting, including exact p-values wherever possible alongside the summary statistics (test statistic and df) and, where appropriate, 95% confidence intervals. These should be reported for all key questions and not only when the p-value is less than 0.05 in the main manuscript.

      Readers would also benefit from noting that the subjects were male in the abstract and discussion of the limitations of the exclusion of females.

      Thank you for the suggestion. We have included the full statistical detail in a separate sheet as Table 1. Also, we have modified the title of the manuscript to reflect the sex of the mice.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) In line 211, the authors state, "we recorded neuronal action potentials via multichannel extracellular recording while the mice were moving in the EPM, a traditional type of maze used to test anxiety in rodents,". However, it is unclear what data is presented in the paper, that is, extracellular recordings from SuM in mice on the elevated plus maze.

      We have deleted the description of multichannel recording data in EPM as the data was removed earlier.

      Minor corrections to the text and figures.

      (2) For bar plots, perhaps clarify how the data is presented. For example, in Figure 4, "The data in B, D, E and I-L are presented as the means {plus minus} SEMs," but this does not appear to be plotted as a mean with SEM error bars because the error bars cover all the values.

      Corrected.

      (3) In Figure 5, the white text for EGFP in panel B is very difficult to see.

      Corrected.

      (4) For Figure 5D, it would be helpful to more clearly specify which neurons in SuM were recorded from. Was it SANs or all SuM neurons?

      We did whole-cell recording on all SuM neurons.

      (5) Fos2A-iCreERT2 is mislabeled as "Fos2A-iCreERT" in the methods.

      Corrected.

      (6) The sentence at line 139 "To make sure foot shock induced anxiety won't last until manipulation, we subjected139mice to an acute stress protocol involving foot shocks and then performed the elevated plus140maze (EPM) and elevated zero maze (EZM) tests to evaluate anxiety on days 2 and 7," is unclear as written.

      Thank you for pointing this. We have modified the sentence to make it more clear. “To make sure mice are on similar basal condition while applying chemo-genetic manipulation, we subjected mice to an acute stress protocol involving foot shocks and then performed the elevated plus maze (EPM) and elevated zero maze (EZM) tests to evaluate anxiety on days 2 and 7 (Figure 4 A). The mice that experienced foot shocks showed decreases in the exploration time in the open arms on day 2. However, acute stress-induced anxiety was not detected on day 7 (Figure 4 B), which allow us to compare the reactivation of SANs produced anxiety-like behavior between groups at the same baseline.”

      (7) The details of the viral injections used for ex vivo electrophysiology are not sufficient to understand the experiment and the implications of the data. Which neurons (SANs?) are recorded from, what percent of those had inputs, were the sub-neurons globally labeled or just SANs?

      We performed whole-cell recording on global SuM neurons to show if the projection is innervated by glutamergic neurons in Sub as shown in Figure 5-B that the projection neurons in Sub are exclusively vglut1 expressed. Based on this aim of the experiment, we didn’t keep any neurons that were not response to the light stimulation, therefore can’t calculate the input percent in this case. We have added words to clearly show that we did global SuM neurons in Methods.

      (8) The scale used in Figure 6C renders that data unreadable. 120 to 40% changes in body weight are well beyond the variability in the data.

      We have modified the axis (90 to 110%) to show the body weight change clearer.

      (9) The dose of CNO used, 5 mg/kg, is high, and using lower doses or other DREADD ligands is worth considering.

      Thank you for your valuable comment. We have noticed that people are using relatively lower dose of CNO or other DREADD ligands that are reported much higher affinity and less side-effect. The dose of 5mg/kg was adapted from earlier papers that using DREADD and show no obvious side-effect in mice[17], e.g locomotion (S Figure 2B), in our experiments, so we keep using this dose in this project to make it consistent across different cohorts of experiments. We are switching to DCZ to avoid any potential side-effect of CNO in the following experiments based on this project.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      This is a strong manuscript that provides important insights into the role of the supramammillary nucleus (SuM) and its inputs from the ventral subiculum in regulating anxiety. The combination of behavioral, imaging, electrophysiological, and circuit manipulation approaches is impressive, and the distinction the authors propose between anxiety-related and fear-related circuits is conceptually important.

      There are, however, some points that I think need clarification. The authors emphasize that the hippocampus is essential for fear memory recall, yet they do not directly evaluate whether the SuM-hippocampal pathway might contribute differentially to anxiety versus fear memory. Addressing this would help to explain where the dissociation between the two processes arises.

      Thank you for the suggestion. We realized that we didn’t collect enough data to exclude the role of those SANs on memory, especially fear memory, a memory formation bases on strong emotional training as aforementioned. The data and relevant discussion have been removed to avoid misunderstanding and overstatement.

      I am also not fully convinced about the definition of the "stress-activated neurons" (SANs). The overlap across repeated stress exposures is quite modest (around 20%), which suggests that this population may not be strictly stress-specific but rather a dynamic subset that is preferentially, though not exclusively, engaged by stress. Related to this, the use of the term "engram" raises conceptual questions. Since the classic engram refers to an ensemble encoding and recalling a specific memory, it is not obvious whether it is appropriate to apply the term to a neuronal population that appears to represent a persistent emotional state. The authors should consider justifying this choice of terminology more carefully or adopting a different term.

      Thank you for your important comments. Yes we agree that the SANs in this manuscript are more likely dynamic subset other than exclusive foot-stress engaged “engram”. That’s why we use “stress-activated neurons” but not “engram” to describe this neuronal ensemble. To avoid further misleading, we have made some modification to reduce the use of “engram” across the manuscript.

      Some parts of the text also need more precision. For example, the statement in lines 63-65 that "few studies have explored emotion-related engram cells" is potentially misleading, as most engram studies focus on memories with a strong emotional component. The rationale for this claim should be clarified.

      This sentence has been deleted since it is not necessary to link the text and misleading.

      In Figure 1, the choice of methods is also puzzling: cFos immunostaining is used after shock delivery, while electrophysiology is used for the CSDS paradigm. It would be helpful to explain why different readouts were chosen for different stress models, and whether this may affect the comparability of the results.

      Thank you for this important comment. In Figure 1, we aimed to demonstrate that both acute (foot shock) and chronic (CSDS) stressors can activate SuM neurons, using complementary methods (cFos for acute, in vivo recording for chronic). The reason we chose different method is that acute stress produces transit effect while chronic stress produces long-lasting effect. To our knowledge, cFos is a well-established marker for strong neuronal activation, but with short lifespan (~4-6 hours) and suits acute paradigm better. In vivo recording allows us to compare the neuronal activity before and after chronic experiments within subjects and has ability to reveal cumulative effect which cFos cannot. To address this, we have clarified in the text that the purpose of Figure 1 in Line 112-113: “To investigate if SuM would be responsive to diverse stressors, we next examined whether chronic stress, which different mechanism underlying…”

      Finally, some additional details would strengthen the presentation. The discussion of corticosterone and other physiological markers could be expanded to indicate whether these effects were robust across stress paradigms. Similarly, the relatively modest overlap between SANs activated by different stressors could be framed more explicitly as part of a broader principle of flexible ensemble recruitment in anxiety-related circuits.

      Thank you for your suggestion. We have added more discussion about the corticosterone and the flexibility of SANs in the manuscript. See Line 267-270: “The serum corticosterone concentration can be used as a marker of stress-induced change in the peripheral blood. Previous studies showed serum corticosterone can be increased by various stress stimulation [39–42]; meanwhile, intentionally supplementing the diet with corticosterone can induce anxiety-like behaviors in rodents[43].” and Line 275-281: “However, the reactivation rate of SANs caused by different stressor was relatively lower than the initial activation rate caused by foot shock (Figure 3). This suggests that stress-activated neuronal clusters may have more flexible recruitment principles, with only a small number of neurons potentially encoding emotional information, while most other neurons remain involved in encoding other neural activities. Studies in other field, particularly studies of memory engram, has shown that the sets of neurons activated during learning are dynamic and exhibit high flexibility [44, 45].”

      Overall, the work is of high quality and provides a valuable contribution to the field, but addressing these points would help sharpen the mechanistic claims and ensure that the conceptual framework is as clear and precise as the experimental data.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Since increased SuM activity is hypothesized to mediate the effects of stress on anxiety-like behavior, a logical step would be to test for necessity by silencing the stress-activated SuM cells.

      We agree this is a logical and valuable experiment. While our current study focused primarily on the sufficiency of SuM/SAN activation to induce anxiety-like behavior, we acknowledge that inhibition experiments would provide critical complementary evidence for necessity. We have added a statement in the Discussion noting that “future studies should examine whether silencing SuM SANs, either during stress exposure or during anxiety testing, can prevent or reduce stress-induced anxiety”. This will help establish a more complete causal role.

      (2) Discuss what is meant by "anxiety engram" and what features of anxiety the labeled cells might encode.

      We concur that “stress-activated neuron (SAN)” is a more precise descriptor than “engram” in this context. We have revised the text to avoid the potentially misleading term “engram” and instead refer to a “stress-activated neuron”. The labeled cells are preferentially reactivated by stress (not reward), and their activation promotes both behavioral avoidance and physiological stress markers (corticosterone). They likely contribute to the maintenance of an anxious state under perceived threat, rather than encoding discrete threat cues or memories.

      (3) A more nuanced analysis of behavioral correlates of SuM activity and/or the behavioral effects of SuM manipulations would strengthen this paper.

      To provide a more nuanced understanding of the behavioral correlates, we have performed additional analyses on our fiber photometry data (now presented in Supplemental Figure 6). and have also planned additional experiments for the future study to deepen our understanding.

      References:

      (1) Jendryka M, Palchaudhuri M, Ursu D, van der Veen B, Liss B, Kätzel D, et al. Pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic actions of clozapine-N-oxide, clozapine, and compound 21 in DREADD-based chemogenetics in mice. Sci Rep. 2019;9.

      (2) Koike H, Demars MP, Short JA, Nabel EM, Akbarian S, Baxter MG, et al. Chemogenetic Inactivation of Dorsal Anterior Cingulate Cortex Neurons Disrupts Attentional Behavior in Mouse. Neuropsychopharmacology. 2016;41:1014–1023.

      (3) Guettier J-M, Gautam D, Scarselli M, Ruiz De Azua I, Li JH, Rosemond E, et al. A chemical-genetic approach to study G protein regulation of cell function in vivo. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. 2009;106:19197–19202.

      (4) Wess J, Nakajima K, Jain S. Novel designer receptors to probe GPCR signaling and physiology. Trends Pharmacol Sci. 2013;34:385–392.

      (5) Kraeuter AK, Guest PC, Sarnyai Z. The Elevated Plus Maze Test for Measuring Anxiety-Like Behavior in Rodents. Methods in Molecular Biology, vol. 1916, Humana Press Inc.; 2019. p. 69–74.

      (6) Kraeuter AK, Guest PC, Sarnyai Z. The Open Field Test for Measuring Locomotor Activity and Anxiety-Like Behavior. Methods in Molecular Biology, vol. 1916, Humana Press Inc.; 2019. p. 99–103.

      (7) Wall PM, Messier C. Methodological and conceptual issues in the use of the elevated plus-maze as a psychological measurement instrument of animal anxiety-like behavior. Neurosci Biobehav Rev. 2001;25:275–286.

      (8) Carobrez AP, Bertoglio LJ. Ethological and temporal analyses of anxiety-like behavior: The elevated plus-maze model 20 years on. Neurosci Biobehav Rev. 2005;29:1193–1205.

      (9) Seibenhener ML, Wooten MC. Use of the open field maze to measure locomotor and anxiety-like behavior in mice. Journal of Visualized Experiments. 2015. 6 February 2015. https://doi.org/10.3791/52434.

      (10) Prut L, Belzung C. The open field as a paradigm to measure the effects of drugs on anxiety-like behaviors: A review. Eur J Pharmacol. 2003;463:3–33.

      (11) Chen Y, Zhou X, Chu B, Xie Q, Liu Z, Luo D, et al. Restraint Stress, Foot Shock and Corticosterone Differentially Alter Autophagy in the Rat Hippocampus, Basolateral Amygdala and Prefrontal Cortex. Neurochem Res. 2024;49:492–506.

      (12) Hassell JE, Nguyen KT, Gates CA, Lowry CA. The Impact of Stressor Exposure and Glucocorticoids on Anxiety and Fear. Curr. Top. Behav. Neurosci., vol. 43, Springer; 2019. p. 271–321.

      (13) Peng B, Xu Q, Liu J, Guo S, Borgland SL, Liu S. Corticosterone attenuates reward-seeking behavior and increases anxiety via D2 receptor signaling in ventral tegmental area dopamine neurons. Journal of Neuroscience. 2021;41:1566–1581.

      (14) Myers B, Greenwood-Van Meerveld B. Elevated corticosterone in the amygdala leads to persistant increases in anxiety-like behavior and pain sensitivity. Behavioural Brain Research. 2010;214:465–469.

      (15) Demuyser T, Deneyer L, Bentea E, Albertini G, Van Liefferinge J, Merckx E, et al. In-depth behavioral characterization of the corticosterone mouse model and the critical involvement of housing conditions. Physiol Behav. 2016;156:199–207.

      (16) Shoji H, Maeda Y, Miyakawa T. Chronic corticosterone exposure causes anxiety- and depression-related behaviors with altered gut microbial and brain metabolomic profiles in adult male C57BL/6J mice. Molecular Brain . 2024;17.

      (17) Manvich DF, Webster KA, Foster SL, Farrell MS, Ritchie JC, Porter JH, et al. The DREADD agonist clozapine N-oxide (CNO) is reverse-metabolized to clozapine and produces clozapine-like interoceptive stimulus effects in rats and mice. Sci Rep. 2018;8.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      GID/CTLH-type RING ligases are huge multi-protein complexes that play an important role in protein ubiquitylation. The subunits of its core complex are distinct and form a defined structural arrangement, but there can be variations in subunit composition, such as exchange of RanBP9 and RanBP10. In this study, van gen Hassend and Schindelin provide new crystal structures of (parts of) key subunits and use those structures to elucidate the molecular details of the pairwise binding between those subunits. They identify key residues that mediate binding partner specificity. Using in vitro binding assays with purified protein, they show that altering those residues can switch specificity to a different binding partner.

      Strengths:

      This is a technically demanding study that sheds light on an interesting structural biology problem in residue-level detail. The combination of crystallization, structural modeling, and binding assays with purified mutant proteins is elegant and, in my eyes, convincing.

      Weaknesses:

      I mainly have some suggestions for further clarification, especially for a broad audience beyond the structural biology community.

      We thank the reviewer for the careful evaluation of our manuscript and for the positive and encouraging assessment of our work. We also thank the reviewer for the constructive suggestions to improve clarity for a broader audience and have revised the manuscript accordingly.

      (1) The authors establish what they call an 'engineering toolkit' for the controlled assembly of alternative compositions of the GID complex. The mutagenesis results are great for the specific questions asked in this manuscript. It would be great if they could elaborate on the more general significance of this 'toolkit' - is there anything from a technical point of view that can be generalized? Is there a biological interest in altering the ring composition for functional studies?

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. Beyond addressing the specific pairwise assembly mechanisms analyzed in this study, we agree that the broader significance of this engineering toolkit warrants further discussion. The residue-level understanding of CTLH-CRA interfaces not only explains assembly specificity but also enables rational manipulation of ring composition in a controlled manner. We have therefore expanded the end of the discussion section to outline generalizable strategies for CRA-interface disruption and to highlight potential biological applications of altering ring composition for functional studies.

      (2) Along the same lines, the mutagenesis required to rewire Twa1 binding was very complex (8 mutations). While this is impressive work, the 'big picture conclusion' from this part is not as clear as for the simpler RanBP9/10. It would be great if the authors could provide more context as to what this is useful for (e.g., potential for in vivo or in vitro functional studies, maybe even with clinical significance?)

      We thank the reviewer for this important comment and agree that the broader implications of the more complex Twa1 rewiring were not sufficiently emphasized in the original manuscript. Through the competition ITC experiments (Fig. 5), we aimed to demonstrate a concrete application of the Twa1. At the same time, we recognize that additional use cases are conceivable. To address this point, we have expanded the discussion section to clarify the conceptual significance of Twa1 rewiring and briefly outline further potential applications of controlled interface manipulation. These additions aim to better contextualize the broader relevance of this approach beyond the specific mechanistic questions addressed in this study.

      (3) For many new crystal structures, the authors used truncated, fused, or otherwise modified versions of the proteins for technical reasons. It would be helpful if the authors could provide reasoning why those modifications are unlikely to change the conclusions of those experiments compared to the full-length proteins (which are challenging to work with for technical reasons). For instance, could the authors use folding prediction (AlphaFold) that incorporates information of their resolved structures and predicts the impact of the omitted parts of the proteins? The authors used AlphaFold for some aspects of the study, which could be expanded.

      We agree with the reviewer that the transferability of the domain constructs to the corresponding full-length proteins is an important consideration. In the original version of the manuscript, we addressed this point by fitting the experimentally determined CTLH-CRA domain structures of muskelin and RanBP9 into the cryo-EM maps of the full-length complexes (Fig. 5d), demonstrating that the applied truncations and fusion strategies are compatible with the architecture observed in the intact assembly. Following the reviewer’s suggestion, we have further strengthened this analysis by adding a new Supplementary Figure 1. In this figure, the experimentally determined CTLH-CRA domain structures are superposed with full-length AlphaFold predictions. This comparison shows that removal of flexible linker regions, such as those between the CTLH and CRA motifs or at terminal segments, does not alter the overall fold or the binding interfaces of the domains. Together, these analyses support the conclusion that the domain constructs faithfully represent the structural and interaction properties of the full-length proteins.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This is a very interesting study focusing on a remarkable oligomerization domain, the LisH-CTLH-CRA module. The module is found in a diverse set of proteins across evolution. The present manuscript focuses on the extraordinary elaboration of this domain in GID/CTLH RING E3 ubiquitin ligases, which assemble into a gigantic, highly ordered, oval-shaped megadalton complex with strict subunit specificity. The arrangement of LisH-CTLHCRA modules from several distinct subunits is required to form the oval on the outside of the assembly, allowing functional entities to recruit and modify substrates in the center. Although previous structures had shown that data revealed that CTLH-CRA dimerization interfaces share a conserved helical architecture, the molecular rules that govern subunit pairing have not been explored. This was a daunting task in protein biochemistry that was achieved in the present study, which defines this "assembly specificity code" at the structural and residue-specific level.

      The authors used X-ray crystallography to solve high-resolution structures of mammalian CTLH-CRA domains, including RANBP9, RANBP10, TWA1, MAEA, and the heterodimeric complex between RANBP9 and MKLN. They further examined and characterized assemblies by quantitative methods (ITC and SEC-MALS) and qualitatively using nondenaturing gels. Some of their ITC measurements were particularly clever and involved competitive titrations and titrations of varying partners depending on protein behavior. The experiments allowed the authors to discover that affinities for interactions between partners is exceptionally tight, in the pM-nM range, and to distill the basis for specificity while also inferring that additional interactions beyond the LisH-CTLH-CRA modules likely also contribute to stability. Beyond discovering how the native pairings are achieved, the authors were able to use this new structural knowledge to reengineer interfaces to achieve different preferred partnerings.

      Strengths:

      Nearly everything about this work is exceptionally strong.

      (1) The question is interesting for the native complexes, and even beyond that, has potential implications for the design of novel molecular machines.

      (2) The experimental data and analyses are quantitative, rigorous, and thorough.

      (3) The paper is a great read - scholarly and really interesting.

      (4) The figures are exceptional in every possible way. They present very complex and intricate interactions with exquisite clarity. The authors are to be commended for outstanding use of color and color-coding throughout the study, including in cartoons to help track what was studied in what experiments. And the figures are also outstanding aesthetically.

      Weaknesses:

      There are no major weaknesses of note, but I can make a few recommendations for editing the text.

      We are very grateful to the reviewer for this exceptionally positive and thoughtful assessment of our work. We sincerely appreciate the recognition of both the conceptual scope and the technical depth of the study. We are particularly encouraged by the reviewer’s comments regarding the clarity and presentation of the figures. Considerable effort went into ensuring that the structural and biochemical complexity of the CTLH assemblies could be conveyed in a clear and accessible manner, and we are grateful that this was appreciated. We thank the reviewer for the constructive recommendations for textual improvements.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Protein complexes, like the GID/CTLH-type E3 ligase, adopt a complex three-dimensional structure, which is of functional importance. Several domains are known to be involved in shaping the complexes. Structural information based on cryo-EM is available, but its resolution does not always provide detailed information on protein-protein interactions. The work by van gen Hassend and Schindelin provides additional structural data based on crystal structures.

      Strengths:

      The work is solid and very carefully performed. It provides high-resolution insights into the domain architecture, which helps to understand the protein-protein interactions on a detailed molecular level. They also include mutant data and can thereby draw conclusions on the specificity of the domain interactions. These data are probably very helpful for others who work on a functional level with protein complexes containing these domains.

      Weaknesses:

      The manuscript contains a lot of useful, very detailed information. This information is likely very helpful to investigate functional and regulatory aspects of the protein complexes, whose assembly relies on the LisH-CTLHCRA modules. However, this goes beyond the scope of this manuscript.

      We thank the reviewer for the detailed review of our manuscript and for the constructive and positive remarks. We greatly appreciate the recognition of the high-resolution structural insights and the value of combining crystallographic data with mutational analyses to elucidate domain-specific interactions. We are also grateful for the acknowledgment that these findings may serve as a useful resource for future functional and regulatory studies of LisH-CTLH-CRA-containing complexes. While such aspects extend beyond the immediate scope of the present study, we hope that the structural framework provided here will facilitate and inspire future investigations addressing these questions.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) For the ITC measurements that are less accurate, the authors may want to represent that in the figures with an approximate sign.

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful suggestion. After consideration, we decided not to introduce an approximate sign in the main figures, as this would be inconsistent with the graphical conventions used throughout the manuscript (there is also no equal sign). Since the associated errors are reported directly alongside each K<sub>D</sub> value, we believe that the precision of the measurements is sufficiently conveyed. However, we agree that explicitly marking estimated values can be appropriate in specific cases. We have therefore added approximate signs in Supplementary Fig. 5 for the K<sub>D</sub> estimation of self-association.

      (2) The names of the proteins are from mammals and should probably be capitalized.

      We agree that capitalization is generally appropriate for mammalian protein names. In particular, for proteins such as Rmnd5a, which is identical in sequence between mouse and human, the use of human-style nomenclature would indeed be fully justified. Originally, we chose the current nomenclature to distinguish the proteins studied here from strictly human versions, as most constructs are derived from mouse and one (muskelin) from rat. This approach also avoids inconsistencies between the mouse and rat proteins within the manuscript and maintains alignment with the nomenclature used in our previous publications. For the sake of consistency and continuity, we have therefore retained the original formatting throughout the manuscript.

      (3) For the sequence alignments, it would be good to specify in the legend which organisms these are from, and where the differences are in mouse and rat proteins used in the study, and the human proteins.

      We appreciate this constructive suggestion. We have revised the sequence alignment legends to clearly specify the organism of origin for each sequence included in the analysis. In addition, we have added a new Supplementary Figure 1 presenting the AlphaFold predictions of the mouse proteins and rat muskelin used in this study. Within these models, sequence differences relative to the human proteins are indicated, and variations within the CTLH-CRA domains are explicitly annotated. These additions clarify how the constructs analyzed here relate to their human counterparts.

      (4) A few points about the referencing:

      (a) It was reference 27 that first described the dual-sided interactions where the CRA domain weaves back and forth such that CTLH-CRAN and LisH-CRAC mediate the contacts on the two sides. This should be cited.

      We fully agree and added the reference accordingly.

      (b) To this reviewer's knowledge, it was references 13 and 9 that resolved the daisy-chain of helical LisH-CTLHCRA interactions around the oval helical structures.

      We agree with the reviewer that references 13 and 9 resolved the helical LisH-CTLH-CRA daisy-chain arrangement around the oval structure. Reference 13 was already cited in the original manuscript, and we have now added reference 9 to appropriately acknowledge this contribution. We have retained reference 14, although it did not resolve the helical daisy-chain architecture, as it described a related oval assembly of CTLH complex components that remains relevant in the structural context discussed.

      (c) A cryo-EM map with RANBP10 was shown at low resolution in reference 8.

      We agree with the reviewer that a low-resolution cryo-EM map including RANBP10 was reported in reference 8. Our original wording was not sufficiently precise and may have given the impression that RANBP10 had not been characterized. Our intention was to convey that, although cryo-EM maps exist, detailed atomic-level information on subunit interfaces was lacking. We have revised the paragraph accordingly to clarify this point and now cite reference 8 explicitly in this context.

      (d) The Discussion requires referencing.

      We agree with the reviewer that additional referencing improves the clarity and contextualization of the Discussion. We have revised the Discussion section accordingly and added appropriate references to support the statements made.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this study, Diana et al. present a Monte Carlo-based method to perform spike inference from calcium imaging data. A particular strength of their approach is that they can estimate not only averages but also uncertainties of the modeled process. The authors focus on the quantification of spike time uncertainties in simulated data and in data recorded with high sampling rate in cebellar slices with GCaMP8f, and they demonstrate the high temporal precision that can be achieved with their method to estimate spike timing.

      Strengths:

      - The author provide a solid ground work for sequential Monte Carlo-based spike inference, which extends previous work of Pnevmatikakis et al., Greenberg et al. and others.

      - The integration of two states (silence vs. burst firing) seems to improve the performance of the model.

      - The acquisition of a GCaMP8f dataset in cerebellum is useful and helps make the point that high spike time inference precision is possible under certain conditions.

      Weaknesses:

      - Although the algorithm is compared (in the revised manuscript) to other models to infer individual spikes (e.g., MLSpike), these comparisons could be more comprehensive. Future work that benchmarks this and other algorithms under varying conditions (e.g., noise levels, temporal resolution, calcium indicators) would help assess and confirm robustness and useability of this algorithm.

      The metrics used for comparison follow the field's benchmarking conventions (see the CASCADE paper, Rupprecht et al. 2021). Indeed, improved standardized methods would be ideal to develop, which is beyond the scope of this manuscript.

      - The mathematical complexity underlying the method may pose challenges for experimentalist who may want to use the methods for their analyses. While this is not a weakness of the approach itself, this highlights the need for further validation and benchmarking in future work, to build user confidence.

      We acknowledge the challenges of understanding the mathematics underlying our method, but such a study is necessary to ensure its accuracy and reliability. Indeed, we will strive to improve the technique's user-friendliness in future instantiations.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Methods to infer action potentials from fluorescence-based measurements of intracellular calcium dynamics are important for optical measurements of activity across large populations of neurons. The variety of existing methods can be separated into two broad classes: a) model-independent approaches that are trained on ground truth datasets (e.g., deep networks), and b) approaches based on a model of the processes that link action potentials to calcium signals. Models usually contains parameters describing biophysical variables, such as rate constants of the calcium dynamics and features of the calcium indicator. The method presented here, PGBAR, is model-based and uses a Bayesian approach. A novelty of PGBAR is that static parameters and state variables are jointly estimated using particle Gibbs sampling, a sequential Monte Carlo technique that can efficiently sample the latent embedding space.

      Strengths:

      A main strength of PGBAR is that it provides probability distributions rather than point estimates of spike times. This is different from most other methods and may be an important feature in cases when estimates of uncertainty are desired. Another important feature of PGBAR is that it estimates not only the state variable representing spiking activity, but also other variables such as baseline fluctuations and stationary model variables, in a joint process. PGBAR can therefore provide more information than various other methods. The information in the github repository is well-organized.

      Weaknesses:

      On the other hand, the accuracy of spike train reconstructions is not higher than that of other model-based approaches, and clearly lower than the accuracy of a model-independent approach based on a deep network. The authors demonstrate convincingly that PGBAR can resolve inter-spike intervals in the range of 5 ms using fluorescence data obtained with a very fast genetically encoded calcium indicator at very high sampling rates (line scans at >= 1 kHz).

      In the revision, Figure 9 shows that temporal accuracy is very similar between PGBAR and the supervised method, CASCADE, and that PGBAR has a lower false positive rate. These results support the effectiveness of unsupervised Monte Carlo sampling, even with a simple autoregressive model.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I'd like to thank the authors for their revisions. Their comments have addressed all my concerns, and I thank them for the clarifications. I have no further comments, except a few minor notes that the authors may consider or not:

      - The paragraph starting in line 367 is newly written and not yet as clear and mature as other parts of the manuscript. It is at several sentences roughly clear what it is about, but the precision of the wording is lacking. For example "distributions of the average time from ground-truth" seems a bit unclear, maybe "distributions of the average time of estimate spikes from ground-truth spikes" instead. Similarly, "the false detection rate, defined as the difference between detected and ground-truth spikes ..." could be rephrased using the difference between "numbers of spikes" instead of the difference between "spikes". But all of this is minor.

      - In the new Figure 9A, the error bars for the MLSpike method seem to be absent. In the same figure legend, it should be "excess" instead of "excess".

      We thank the reviewer for the feedback. We revised the wording of the new paragraph in response to the reviewer’s suggestions, restored the missing error bar in Figure 9, and corrected the figure legend.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Comparison to CASCADE: as far as I know there are no CASCADE models that have been trained on ground truth data in the regime of very fast (line scan) sampling, which is rarely used. A fair comparison of spike time estimates between PGBAR and CASCADE should take this into account. This can be done by training a new CASCADE model using the dataset of this paper. Given that performance of PGBAR and CASCADE is very similar already now (except for the false positive rate), a CASCADE model optimized for high sampling rate may be expected to catch up with (or even exceed) the performance of PGBAR. At a minimum, this possibility should be discussed.

      While this may be true, retraining a CASCADE model on high-frequency ground-truth data is beyond the scope of this manuscript. Indeed, a retrained CASCADE model optimized for line-scan or GCaMP8f data could improve performance and potentially match or exceed PGBAR, particularly in reducing false positives.

      Our aim, however, is not to benchmark supervised methods under their optimal retraining conditions, but to provide an unsupervised alternative that does not rely on labeled training data. In practice, retraining supervised models is constrained by the availability of suitable ground-truth datasets and by the uncertainty in how the method generalizes to acquisition regimes that differ substantially from the training set.

      We have therefore added a sentence in the Discussion (at the end of the subsection Comparison with benchmark datasets):

      [...] “While retraining supervised methods such as CASCADE on high-frequency or GCaMP8f ground-truth datasets could further improve its performance, limitations in dataset availability and generalization across acquisition regimes motivate complementary, training-free approaches such as PGBAR.”

      As stated in the manuscript, future extensions, such as using nonlinear biophysical models as the generative model for Monte Carlo–based inference, may further improve spike estimation accuracy.

    1. Author response:

      We thank the reviewing editor and the reviewers for their careful evaluation of our manuscript “Early sleep dependent sensory gating in the olfactory system”, and for their constructive feedback. We are encouraged by the overall positive assessment of the work.

      In the revised version, we will address all the points raised by the reviewers. Below, we outlined the main aspects of the revision.

      (1) Contextualization within prior literature.

      We will expand the text to better situate our findings within the existing literature and clarify the specific contribution of our work, particularly with respect to state dependent changes in olfactory bulb activity.

      (2) Distinction between sleep and urethane anaesthesia.

      We will revise the text to more clearly distinguish findings obtained during natural sleep from those obtained under urethane anaesthesia. While avoiding direct equivalence between states, we will clarify that the comparison is intended to highlight shared features of slow wave brain dynamics associated with sensory gating.

      (3) Clarification of analytical methods and statistical criteria.

      We will provide additional details regarding normalisation procedures, surrogate based analysis, and statistical criteria used to assess the presence or absence of coherence and phase amplitude coupling, ensuring consistency across figures.

      (4) Improvements in figures in terminology.

      We will revise figure annotations to improve clarity (axis, colour scales, units and labelling) and ensure consistent terminology throughout the manuscript.

      We believe these revisions will further strengthen the manuscript while preserving its central conclusions.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

      Strengths

      (1) The definition of highly variable yet highly reproducible sulci such as the slocs-v feeds the community with new anatomo-functional landmarks (which is emphasized by the provision of a probability map in supp. mat., which in my opinion should be proposed in the main body).

      We agree with Reviewer 2 that there is merit to including the probability maps as a main text Figure rather than Supplementary Figure. We have now added it to the main text.

      Weaknesses

      (1) While the identification of the sulci has been done thoroughly with expert validation, the sulci have not been labeled in a way that enables the demonstration of the reproducibility of the labeling.

      Our group was unable to use an approach amenable to calculating inter-rater agreements to expedite the process of defining thousands of sulci at the individual level in multiple regions as this was our first study comprehensively documenting the sulcal organization of this region. Nevertheless, our method followed a rigorous, three-tiered procedure to ensure accurate sulcal definitions were identified in all participants. In the case of this study, authors YT and TG first defined sulci. These sulci were then checked by a trained expert (EHW). Finally, sulcal definitions were finalized by the senior author, an expert neuroanatomist (KSW). We emphasize that this process has produced reproducible anatomical results when charting other regions such as posteromedial cortex (Willbrand et al., 2023 Science Advances; Willbrand et al., 2023 Communications Biology; Maboudian et al., 2024 The Journal of Neuroscience; Ramos Benitez et al., 2024 Neuropsychologia), ventral temporal cortex (Miller et al., 2020 Scientific Reports; Parker et al., 2023 Brain Structure and Function), and lateral prefrontal cortex (Miller et al., 2021 The Journal of Neuroscience; Voorhies et al., 2021 Nature Communications; Yao et al., 2022 Cerebral Cortex; Willbrand et al., 2022 Brain Structure and Function; Willbrand et al., 2023 The Journal of Neuroscience; Willbrand et al., 2024 Brain Structure and Function) across age groups, species, and clinical populations. For the present study, by the time the final tier of our method was reached, we emphasize that a very small percentage (~2%) of sulcal definitions were actually modified. We will include an exact percentage in future publications in LPC/LOPJ.

      Our Methods have been edited to describe these features (Pages 21-22):

      “As this is the first time the sulcal expanse of LPC/LOPJ was comprehensively charted with a focus on pTS, the location of each sulcus was confirmed through a three-tiered procedure for each participant in each hemisphere. First, trained independent raters (Y.T. and T.G.) identified sulci. Second, these definitions were checked by a trained expert (E.H.W.). Third, these labels were finalized by a neuroanatomist (K.S.W.). We emphasize that this procedure has produced reproducible results in our prior work across the cortex (Miller et al. 2021; Voorhies et al. 2021; Yao et al. 2022; Willbrand et al. 2023; Willbrand et al. 2022; Willbrand et al. 2024; Parker et al. 2023; Miller et al. 2020; Willbrand et al. 2022; Willbrand et al. 2023; Maboudian et al. 2024; Ramos Benitez et al. 2024). All LPC sulci were then manually defined and saved as .label files in FreeSurfer using tksurfer tools, from which morphological and anatomical features were extracted. We defined LPC/LPOJ sulci for each participant based on the most recent schematics of sulcal patterning by Petrides (2019) as well as pial, inflated, and smoothed white matter (smoothwm) FreeSurfer cortical surface reconstructions of each individual. In some cases, the precise start or end point of a sulcus can be difficult to determine on a surface (Borne et al., 2020); however, examining consensus across multiple surfaces allowed us to clearly determine each sulcal boundary in each individual. For four example hemispheres with these 13-17 sulci identified, see Fig. 1a (Supplementary Fig. 5 for all hemispheres). The specific criteria to identify the slocs and pAngs are outlined in Fig. 1b.”

      Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

      Weaknesses

      (1) The numbers of subjects are inherently limited both in number as well as in being typically developing young adults.

      First, although the sample size of the present study is small in number in comparison to large N, group-level neuroimaging analyses, it is comparable to precision neuroimaging studies examining sulcal features in individual participants (for example, Cachia et al., 2021 Frontiers in Neuroanatomy; Garrison et al., 2015 Nature Communications; Lopez-Persem et al., 2019 The Journal of Neuroscience; Miller et al., 2021 The Journal of Neuroscience; Roell et al., 2021 Developmental Cognitive Neuroscience; Voorhies et al., 2021 Nature Communications; Weiner, 2019 The Anatomical Record; Willbrand, et al., 2022 Science Advances; Willbrand, et al., 2022 Brain Structure & Function; Yao et al., 2022 Cerebral Cortex). We discuss this point in detail in the Limitations subsection of the Discussion (Page 17):

      “This manual method is also arduous and time-consuming, which, on the one hand, limits the sample size in terms of number of participants, while on the other, results in thousands of precisely defined sulci. This push-pull relationship reflects a broader conversation in the human brain mapping and cognitive neuroscience fields between a balance of large N studies and “precision imaging” studies in individual participants (Gratton et al., 2022; Naselaris et al., 2021; Rosenberg and Finn, 2022). Though our sample size is comparable to other studies that produced reliable results relating sulcal morphology to brain function and cognition (for example, Cachia et al., 2021; Garrison et al., 2015; Lopez-Persem et al., 2019; Miller et al., 2021; Roell et al., 2021; Voorhies et al., 2021; Weiner, 2019; Willbrand et al., 2022a, 2022b; Yao et al., 2022), ongoing work that uses deep learning algorithms to automatically define sulci should result in much larger sample sizes in future studies (Borne et al., 2020; Lee et al., 2024, 2025; Lyu et al., 2021). The time-consuming manual definitions of primary, secondary, and PTS also limit the cortical expanse explored in each study, thus restricting the present study to LPC/LPOJ.”

      Second, we utilized a young adult sample as this is what is the standard of the field when charting features of sulci for the first time (for example, Paus et al., 1996 Cerebral Cortex; Chiavaras & Petrides, 2000 Journal of Comparative Neurology; Segal & Petrides, 2012 European Journal of Neuroscience; Zlatkina & Petrides, 2014 Proceedings of the Royal Society B Biological Science; Sprung-Much & Petrides, 2018 Brain Structure & Function; Miller et al., 2021 The Journal of Neuroscience; Willbrand et al., 2022 Science Advances; Willbrand et al., 2023 Communications Biology; Drudik et al., 2023 Cerebral Cortex). Nevertheless, it is indeed crucial to confirm that this schematic is translatable to other age groups; however this exploration is beyond the scope of the present project and is for future investigation. We have added text to the Limitations subsection of the Discussion to emphasize the points (Pages 17-18):

      “Additionally, the scope of the present study is limited in that the sample was only in young adults. This sample was selected as it is the standard of the field when charting features of sulci for the first time (for example, Paus et al. 1996; Chiavaras and Petrides 2000; Segal and Petrides 2012; Zlatkina and Petrides 2014; Sprung-Much and Petrides 2018; Miller et al. 2021; Willbrand et al. 2022; Willbrand et al. 2023; Drudik et al. 2023). Nevertheless, it is necessary to explore how well this updated schematic translates to different age groups, species, and clinical populations.”

      Finally, it is worth mentioning that we have begun preliminary analyses on the translatability of this schematic, and have shown that it does hold in a pediatric sample (ages 6-18 years old; Author response image 1).

      Author response image 1.

      Example pediatric participant with all LPC/LOPJ sulci identified in both hemispheres. Incidence rates for the variable pTS identified in the present work in a pediatric sample are included below (N = 79 participants)

      (2) While the paper begins by describing four new sulci, only one is explored further in greater detail.

      We focused on the slocs-v as it has a high incidence rate, making it amenable to our analytic pipelines relating sulci to cortical morphology, architecture, and function, as well as cognition (Miller et al., 2021 The Journal of Neuroscience; Voorhies et al., 2021 Nature Communications; Yao et al., 2022 Cerebral Cortex; Willbrand et al., 2022 Science Advances; Willbrand et al., 2023 The Journal of Neuroscience; Maboudian et al., 2024 The Journal of Neuroscience). However, we want to emphasize that throughout the paper there are multiple analyses that further describe the three more variable sulci: 1) detailing their sulcal patterning (Supplementary Tables 1-4) and 2) detailing their morphology and architecture (Supplementary Fig. 6). We do agree though that it is a worthwhile endeavor to further describe these sulci—especially if the data is readily available. As such, to complement our behavioral analysis identifying a relationship between the morphology of the consistent sulci and spatial orientation and considering the well-documented relationship between sulcal incidence and cognition (for review see Cachia et al., 2021 Frontiers in Neuroanatomy), we tested whether the number of variable sulci and the incidence of each variable sulcus specifically were related to spatial orientation. This procedure produced null results on all neuroanatomical variables, which we now mention in the Results (Page 11):

      “Finally, as in prior work examining variably-present PTS in other cortical expanses (for example, (Amiez et al., 2018; Cachia et al., 2014; Fornito et al., 2004; Willbrand et al., 2024b), we assessed whether the presence/absence of the more variable PTS identified in the present work (slocs-d, pAngs-v, and pAngs-d) was related to spatial orientation, reasoning, and processing speed task performance. We identified no significant associations between the presence/absence of these sulci in either hemisphere with performance on these tests (ps > .05).”

      (3) There is some tension between calling the discovered sulci new vs acknowledging they have already been reported, but not named.

      To resolve this tension, we have revised the text to 1) ensure proper acknowledgment that sulci have been noticed in this region, 2) point out that these sulci were left unnamed and undescribed, and 3) emphasize that one of the primary goals of this project was to comprehensively detail the sulcal organization of this region at a precise, individual-level considering these often-overlooked sulci.

      This is primarily done at the beginning of the Results (Pages 4-5), where we now write:

      “Four previously undescribed small and shallow sulci in the lateral parieto-occipital junction (LPOJ)

      In previous research in small sample sizes, neuroanatomists noticed shallow sulci in this cortical expanse, but did not describe them beyond including an unlabeled sulcus in their schematic at best (Supplementary Methods and Supplementary Figs. 1-4 for historical details). In the present study, we fully update this sulcal landscape considering these overlooked indentations. In addition to defining the 13 sulci previously described within the LPC/LPOJ, as well as the posterior superior temporal cortex in individual participants (Methods) (Petrides, 2019), we could also identify as many as four small and shallow PTS situated within the LPC/LPOJ that were highly variable across individuals and left undescribed until now (Supplementary Methods and Supplementary Figs. 1-4). Though we officially name and characterize features of these sulci in this paper for the first time, it is necessary to note that the location of these four sulci is consistent with the presence of variable “accessory sulci” in this cortical expanse mentioned in prior modern and classic studies (Supplementary Methods). For four example hemispheres with these 13-17 sulci identified, see Fig. 1a (Supplementary Fig. 5 for all hemispheres).”

      (4) The anatomy of the sulci, as opposed to their relation to other sulci, could be described in greater detail.

      To detail these sulci above and beyond their relation to other sulci, we document the anatomical metrics of all sulci in Supplemental Figure 6:

      Results (Page 8):

      The morphological and architectural features of all LPC/LPOJ sulci are described in Supplementary Fig. 6.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The study investigates how neuropeptidergic signaling affects sleep regulation in Drosophila larvae. The authors first conduct a screen of CRISPR knock-out lines of genes encoding enzymes or receptors for neuropeptides and monoamines. As a result of this screen, the authors follow up on one hit, the hugin receptor, PK2-R1. They use genetic approaches, including mutants and targeted manipulations of PK2-R1 activity in insulin-producing cells (IPCs) to increase total sleep amounts in 2nd instar larvae. Similarly, dilp3 and dilp5 null mutants and genetic silencing of IPCs show increases in sleep. The authors also show that hugin mutants and thermogenetic/optogenetic activation of hugin-expressing neurons caused reductions in sleep. Furthermore, they show through imaging-based approaches that hugin-expressing neurons activate IPCs. A key finding is that wash-on of hugin peptides, Hug-γ and PK-2, in ex vivo brain preparations activates larval IPCs, as assayed by CRTC::GFP imaging. The authors then examine how the PK2-R1, hugin, and IPC manipulations affect adult sleep. Finally, the authors examine how Ca2+ responses through CRTC::GFP imaging in adult IPCs are influenced by the wash-on of hugin peptides. The conclusions of this paper are somewhat well supported by data, but some aspects of the experimental approach and sleep analysis need to be clarified and extended.

      Strengths:

      (1) This paper builds on previously published studies that examine Drosophila larval sleep regulation. Through the power of Drosophila genetics, this study yields additional insights into what role neuropeptides play in the regulation of Drosophila larval sleep.

      (2) This study utilizes several diverse approaches to examine larval and adult sleep regulation, neural activity, and circuit connections. The impressive array of distinct analyses provides new understanding into how Drosophila sleep-wake circuitry in regulated across the lifespan.

      (3) The imaging approaches used to examine IPC activation upon hugin manipulation (either thermogenetic activation or wash-on of peptides) demonstrate a powerful approach for examining how changes in neuropeptidergic signaling affect downstream neurons. These experiments involve precise manipulations as the authors use both in vivo and ex vivo conditions to observe an effect on IPC activity.

      Weaknesses:

      Although the paper does have some strengths in principle, these strengths are not fully supported by the experimental approaches used by the authors. In particular:

      (1) The authors show total sleep amount over an 18-hour period for all the measures of 2nd instar larval sleep throughout the paper. However, published studies have shown that sleep changes over the course of 2nd instar development, so more precise time windows are necessary for the analyses in this study.

      (2) Previously published reports of sleep metrics in both Drosophila larvae and adults include the average number of sleep episodes (bout number) and the average length of sleep episodes (bout length). Neither of these metrics is included in the paper for either the larval sleep or adult sleep data. Not including these metrics makes it difficult for readers to compare the findings in this study to previously published papers in the established Drosophila sleep literature.

      (3) Because Drosophila adult & larval sleep is based on locomotion, the authors need to show the activity values for the experiments supporting their key conclusions. They do show travel distances in Figure 2 - Figure Supplement 1, however, it is not clear how these distances were calculated or how the distances relate to the overall activity of individual larvae during sleep experiments. It is also concerning that inactivation of the PK2-R1-expressing neurons causes a reduction in locomotion speed. This could partially explain the increase in sleep that they observe.

      (4) The authors rely on homozygous mutant larvae and adult flies to support many of their conclusions. They also rely on Gal4 lines with fairly broad expression in the Drosophila brain to support their conclusions. Adding more precise tissue-specific manipulations, including thermogenetic activation and inhibition of smaller populations of neurons in the study would be needed to increase confidence in the presented results. Similarly, demonstrating that larval development and feeding are not affected by the broad manipulations would strengthen the conclusions.

      (5) Many of the experiments presented in this study would benefit from genetic and temperature controls. These controls would increase confidence in the presented results.

      (6) The authors claim that their findings in larvae uncover the circuit basis for larval sleep regulation. However, there is very little comparison to published studies demonstrating that neuropeptides like Dh44 regulate larval sleep. Because hugin-expressing neurons have been shown to be downstream of Dh44 neurons, the authors need to include this as part of their discussion. The authors also do not explain why other neuropeptides in the initial screen are not pursued in the study. Given the effect that these manipulations have on larval sleep in their initial screen, it seems likely that other neuropeptidergic circuits regulate larval sleep.

      We thank Reviewer #1 for the constructive comments. According to the suggestions, we have compared the relative sleep amounts of wild-type control and Hugin/PK2-R1/IPCs mutants/manipulations between 6hr-period and 18-hour periods in the 2nd instar larval stage and found consistent sleep phenotypes. We have also showed the sleep metrics data of larva and adults. We have included additional data of locomotion and feeding behavior in wild-type control and Hugin/PK2-R1/IPCs mutants/manipulations, which suggest that sleep phenotypes of Hugin/PK2-R1/IPCs mutants/manipulations are less affected by locomotion and feeding behavior changes. As pointed out, our study could not exclude the possibility that in addition to the Hugin/PK2-R1/IPCs axis, other pathways including DH44 could act in larval sleep control. We have included these points in Discussion. Please see point-to-point responses for details.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study examines larval sleep patterns and compares them to sleep regulation in adult flies. The authors demonstrate hallmark sleep characteristics in larvae, including sleep rebound and increased arousal thresholds. Through genetic and behavioral analyses, they identify PK2-R1 as a key receptor involved in sleep modulation, likely via the HuginPC-IPC signaling pathway. Loss of PK2-R1 results in increased sleep, which aligns with previous findings in hugin knockout mutants. While the study presents significant contributions to the field, further investigation is needed to address discrepancies with earlier research and strengthen mechanistic claims.

      Strengths:

      (1) The study explores a relatively understudied aspect of sleep regulation, focusing on larval development.

      (2) The use of an automated behavioral measurement system ensures precise quantification of sleep patterns.

      (3) The findings provide strong genetic and behavioral evidence supporting the role of the HuginPC-IPC pathway in sleep regulation.

      (4) The study has broader implications for understanding the evolution and functional divergence of sleep circuits.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The manuscript does not sufficiently discuss previous studies, particularly concerning hugin mutants and their metabolic effects.

      (2) The specificity of IPC secretion mechanisms is unclear, particularly regarding potential indirect effects on Dilp2.

      (3) Alternative circuits, such as the HuginPC-DH44 pathway, require further consideration.

      (4) Functional connectivity between HuginPC neurons and IPCs is not directly validated.

      (5) Developmental differences in sleep regulatory mechanisms are not thoroughly examined.

      We thank Reviewer #2 for the positive comments. As suggested, our study could not exclude the possibility that in addition to the Hugin/PK2-R1/IPCs axis, alternative pathways including the Hugin/DH44 axis could contribute to sleep control in larvae. We have added these points in Discussion. We also have added additional data to show mechanistic differences of larval and adult sleep control. Please see point-to-point responses for details.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Sleep affects cognition and metabolism, evolving throughout development. In mammals, infants have fast sleep-wake cycles that stabilize in adults via circadian regulation. In this study, the author performed a genetic screen for neurotransmitters/peptides regulating sleep and identified the neuropeptide Hugin and its receptor PK2-R1 as essential components for sleep in Drosophila larvae. They showed that IPCs express Pk2-R1 and silencing IPCs resulted in a significant increase in the sleep amount, which was consistent with the effect they observed in PK2-R1 knock-out mutants. They also showed that Hugin peptides, secreted by a subset of Hugin neurons (Hug-PC), activate IPCs through the PK2-R1 receptor. This activation prompts IPCs to release insulin-like peptides (Dilps), which are implicated in the modulation of sleep. They showed that Hugin peptides induce a PK2-R1 dependent calcium (Ca²⁺) increase in IPCs, which they linked to the release of Dilp3, showing a connection between Hugin signaling to IPCs, Dilp3 release, and sleep regulation. Additionally, the activation of Hug-PC neurons reduced sleep amounts, while silencing them had the opposite effect. In contrast to the larval stage, the Hugin/PK2-R1 axis was not critical for sleep regulation in Drosophila adults, suggesting that this neuropeptidergic circuitry has divergent roles in sleep regulation across different stages of development.

      Strengths:

      This study used an updated system for sleep quantification in Drosophila larvae, and this method allowed precise measurement of larval sleep patterns which is essential for the understanding of sleep regulation.

      The authors performed unbiased genetics screening and successfully identified novel regulators for larval sleep, Hugin and its receptor PK2-R1, making a substantial contribution to the understanding of neuropeptidergic control of sleep regulation.

      They clearly demonstrated the mechanism by which Hugin-expressing neurons influence sleep through the activation of IPCs via PK2-R1 with Ca2+ responses and can modulate sleep.

      Based on the demonstrated activation of PK2-R1 by the human Hugin orthologue Neuromedin U, research on human sleep disorders may benefit from the discoveries from Drosophila since sleep-regulating mechanisms are conserved across species.

      Weaknesses:

      The study primarily focused on sleep regulation in Drosophila larvae, showing that the Hugin/PK2-R1 axis is critical for larval sleep but not necessary for adult sleep. The effects of the Hugin axis in the adult are, however, incompletely explained and somewhat inconsistent. PK2-R1 knockout adults also display increased sleep, as does HugPC silencing, at least for daytime sleep. The difference lies in Dilp3/5 mutant animals showing decreased sleep and IPCs seemingly responding with reduced Dilp3 release to PK-2 treatment (Figure 6). It seems difficult to reconcile the author's conclusions regarding this point without additional data. It could be argued that PK2-R1 still regulates adult sleep, but not via Hugin and IPCs/Dilps.

      Another issue might be that the authors show relative sleep levels for adults using Trikinetics monitoring. From the methods, it is not clear if the authors backcrossed their line to an isogenic wild-type background to normalize for line-specific effects on sleep. Thus, it is likely that each line has differences in total sleep time due to background effects, e.g., their Kir2.1 control line showed reduced sleep relative to the compared genotypes. This might limit the conclusions on the role of Hugin/PK2-R1 on adult sleep.

      We thank Reviewer #3 for the valuable comments. According to the suggestions, we have included additional data of adult sleep phenotypes with IPCs/Dilps and HugPC/PK-2 manipulations. We believe that these additional data further support the idea that the Hugin/PR2/IPCs axis acts differently in larval and adult sleep control.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Show all data as individual data points in the graphs. The use of box-and-whisker plots makes it difficult to determine how much variation there is in each experiment.

      According to the comments, we have changed all graphs to the dots-and-whisker plots (Figures 1–6; Figure 1—figure supplements 2–4; Figure 2—figure supplement 1; Figure 3—figure supplement 1 and 3; Figure 5—figure supplement 1; and Figure 6— figure supplements 1 and 3).

      (2) Show all larval sleep metrics (total sleep duration, bout #, bout length, & activity) over the first 6-hour period of 2nd instar development. Larval sleep changes over the course of 2nd instar development so showing an 18-hour period is not as informative for the different manipulations in the study. This also allows for a more thorough comparison to Szuperak et al 2018.

      According to the comments, we have shown all larval sleep metrics (total sleep duration, bout #, bout length, & activity) over the first 6 hours for PK2-R1 KO mutants (Figure 1-figure supplemental 5). These PK2-R1 mutant phenotypes are consistent with those described by our sleep amount data over an 18 hr period (Figure 1-figure supplemental 5). We thus consistently show all the sleep phenotype data in the 18 hr period window in the 2nd instar larvae in this paper.

      (3) Show activity values for every experiment. Behavior is based on locomotion, so there is a need to show that larvae in each manipulation do not have locomotive defects.

      According to the reviewer’s comments, we have shown the activity values for each experiment (Figure 2—figure supplement 1 and Figure 3—figure supplement 1). These data clearly indicated that changes in sleep amounts in each manipulation are not only due to locomotion alterations. We have thus added the sentence below at line 151156 in the manuscript.

      Locomotion changes were not consistently observed upon either activation or suppression of Hug neurons (Figure 3—figure supplement 1), suggesting that changes in sleep amounts is unrelated to locomotor alterations.

      (4) Provide additional explanation as to why PK2-R1 was pursued in the study. There are several candidates in Figure 1 - Figure Supplement 4 (like sNPF-Gal4, Dh31-Gal4, and DskGal4) that have effects on sleep. These have also not been studied in the context of larval sleep regulation.

      According to the reviewer’s comments, we have added the following sentences at line 108-114 in the manuscript.

      The role of PK2-R1 in larval sleep, on the other hand, has been unknown to date. Given its strong expression in insulin-producing cells (Schlegel et al., 2016) and its function as a receptor for the neuropeptide Hugin, which modulates feeding (Schoofs et al., 2014), we hypothesized that PK2-R1 might mediate neuropeptidergic signaling that links metabolic and sleep regulation during development. We thus focused on this gene as a candidate connecting behavioral and endocrine sleep control.

      (5) Insulin manipulations are known to disrupt Drosophila development (Rulifson et al, 2002). Therefore, it would be beneficial to show that larvae develop normally in dilp3 and dilp5 mutants by examining the time to pupal formation in these mutants compared to controls. If the mutant larvae take longer to reach the pupal stage, how do the authors know that the 2nd instar control and mutant larvae are the same developmental age? As indicated above, the developmental age of larvae does affect the total amount of sleep, so this could affect the authors' conclusions.

      We agree that this is an important point in this study. In each experiment, we carefully checked the developmental stage of larvae progeny by mouth hook analysis and measuring larval size and used only larvae with characteristics comparable to wildtype 2nd instar larvae. We have added these descriptions in Methods (line 411–416).

      (6) Figure 1 data is only supported by homozygous mutants & 1 fairly-broadly expressed Gal4 driver. The authors need to show that inactivation of PK2-R1 neurons with more tissuerestrictive Gal4 driver lines has the same effect as the other manipulations to further support the conclusions. Examining sleep in activation of PK2-R1 neurons with the broadly expressed Gal4 driver & UAS-TrpA1 would also provide better support for the conclusions.

      We agree. Indeed, we tried to narrow down to small subsets of neurons using multiple different Gal4 drivers, but unfortunately, we did not obtain potential candidates.

      Therefore, although our data show that the Hugin/PK2-R1axis contributes to sleep control in larvae, we cannot rule out the possibility that other axises could also function in larval sleep control. We mentioned this point in the original version of the submitted manuscript (line 134-137).

      (7) Provide more explanation as to how your methods of defining sleep compare/contrast to published papers. It is not clear how many frames = 1 sec in your recordings. The definition of sleep as 12 frames needs to include a time component as well. This allows for easier comparison to other published papers examining Drosophila larval sleep (Szuperak et al 2018; Churgin et al 2019; Poe et al 2023; Poe et al 2024).

      Our recordings were acquired at 0.87 frames per second. We have added this information in Method (line 431).

      (8) Figure 2 data is only supported by mutants & inactivation with 1 Gal4 driver per cell population. Showing activation of Gal4-expressing cells with UAS-TrpA1 would add more support to the conclusions.

      We have already showed the reduced sleep amounts in both HuginGAL4>ReaChR and HuginGAL4>TrpA larvae (Figure 3 C & D) in the original version.

      (9) Need to clarify in the methods how the authors calculated travel distances as a measure of locomotive activity. It's not clear if this is done during larval sleep experiments or in independent experiments. It is also not clear why the y-axes of Figure 2-Figure Supplement 1 are not consistent across the panels. Finally, the authors do see decreases in locomotive activity in PK2-R1>Kir2.1 and in dilp3 mutants, so the conclusions presented in the results section of the paper need to be modified to reflect those results.

      We calculated travel distances from the same video recording datasets used for sleep quantification. We have added this information in Method (line 431-435). As the reviewer indicated, locomotor activity was reduced in a part of conditions/mutants including PK2-R1 > Kir2.1 and dilp3 mutants, and therefore we cannot exclude the possibility that locomotion changes might contribute to sleep phenotypes. On the other hand, a large part of manipulations of Hugin neurons and IPCs caused a sleep increase without significant changes in locomotor activity (Figure 2—figure supplement 1 and Figure 3—figure supplement 1). It is thus likely that Hugin and IPCs contribute to sleep control independent of locomotion, whereas other neurons trapped by PK2-R1 GAL4 might contribute to locomotion control.

      (10) Given the role that hugin neurons play in Drosophila feeding (Schlegel et al, 2016), the authors should include feeding data for the hugin/PK2-R1 manipulations. It is also unclear from the methods if their thresholding for defining sleep can detect feeding behaviors. Changes in feeding behavior could explain some of the reported increases in sleep if feeding is not classified as a waking but is instead picked up as inactivity.

      We agree that this is an important point. According to reviewer’s points, we have added feeding amounts of the wild-type control and the HuginPC>Kir2.1 larvae (Figure 3-figure supplement 3). These data suggest that feeding amounts of the HuginPC>Kir2.1 larvae are significantly reduced compared to those of the control. Given that our data analysis typically categorized feeding behavior into “moving (not sleep)” (see Materials and Methods) and that HuginPC>Kir2.1 larvae showed increased sleep amounts compared to the wild-type control, it is likely that the increased sleep amounts in HuginPC>Kir2.1 larvae are unrelated to changes in feeding behavior.

      (11) The Hugin-IPC localization data (Figure 3E) would be better supported by the use of more specific synaptic and dendritic markers. Specifically, expressing Syt-eGFP (axon marker) in hugin neurons & DenMark (dendritic marker) in IPCs. Using GRASP or P2X2 to demonstrate the anatomical/functional connections between hugin & IPC neurons would also provide better support for this conclusion.

      According to the reviewer’s suggestion, we have added Syt-eGFP signals in HuginPC neurons (Figure 4—figure supplement 1). We also tried DenMark expression in IPCs, but we could not obtain dipl3>DenMark F1 progeny for unknown season. We also applied GRASP to the HuginPC-IPCs interaction, but we could not detect obvious GRASP signals. It is well known that peptidergic transmission is often independent of conventional synapse structures, called as volume transmission, in which peptidergic signals can transmit over a long-range distance to targeting neurons. It is thus possible that IPCs might receive Hugin signals from HuginPC neurons through volume transmission.

      (12) Figure 4 is missing temperature controls for thermal activation experiments. Also missinggenetic control for UAS/+. It would be more convincing to see experiments in Figure 4 with the more specific hug-PC-Gal4 line instead of the broadly expressed hugin-Gal4 line.

      According to reviewer’s comments, we have added the control data in Figure 4.

      (13) Representative images for Figure 4B & 4C would provide better support for the quantifications & conclusions presented.

      According to the reviewer’s suggestions, we show the representative imagine for Figure 4B and 4C (please see Author response image 1). We are, however, afraid that these images might not help readers’ further understanding in addition to the quantitative data, so we have decided to not add these images in the manuscript.

      Author response image 1.

      mCD8::mCherry (top) and CRTC::GFP (bottom) are shown under high-temperature conditions without ("−") or with ("+") hugin neuron activation. "-" denotes a high-temperature genetic control lacking LexAop-TrpA1, thus no thermogenetic activation occurs. CRTC::GFP is shown in pseudocolor.

      (14) A more zoomed-out image of all the IPC neurons in the bath application of hugin peptides (Figure 5D) would help with the interpretation of the results. It's not clear if the authors only measured the same exact neuron in each IPC cluster or if they examined all of the IPC neurons. If they measured all of the IPC neurons, did they observe similar results across the different neurons? How much variability is there in the response of IPC neurons to hugin peptide application?

      For Figure 5, we obtained images of multiple brains from each genotype and quantified the NLI values from all IPC neurons. For reference, we show plots of the CRTC signals of Figure 5C each brain by bran (Author response image 2). We have added detailed information of CRTC analysis in Methods (lines 552-554).

      Author response image 2.

      Distribution of CRTC signals across individual brains. Plots of nuclear localization index (NLI) for individual brains, corresponding to the conditions shown in Figure 5C. The x-axis represents each larval brain preparation, and each dot indicates the NLI value of a single IPC neuron. Horizontal bars represent the median within each brain. These plots illustrate variability both within and across individual brains.

      (15) The conclusion that application of Hug peptides results in dilp3 release is not well supported (Figure 5E). There is a large amount of variation in anti-dilp3 signal. Representative images for these quantifications would be beneficial. The authors also don't directly show that dilp3 vesicles are released. They only see a reduction in antibody accumulation in IPCs. Could there be other reasons for the reduction in accumulation in the IPCs? Would changes in dilp3 gene expression or membrane localization cause a reduction in signal? Showing that actual release of dilp3 is affected by Hug peptides using a reporter like ANF-GFP would be more convincing.

      According to the reviewer’s comments, we have added representative images (Figure 5—figure supplement 2). As for the ex vivo experiments in Fig5, we treated the extracted brain tissues with Hugin/NMU peptides for only 5minutes. It is thus most likely that reduction of Dilps in IPCs is mediated by Hugin/PK2-R1 signal-dependent secretion, rather than transcriptional control and/or degradation of Dilps.

      (16) Show all sleep metrics (total sleep duration, bout #, bout length, and activity) for adult sleep experiments. Showing relative total sleep for the adult experiments is confusing & would benefit from plots of total average sleep in minutes for each genotype.

      According to the reviewer’s comments, we have added the sleep metrics in adults (Figure 6; Figure 6-figure supplement 3).

      (17) The authors can't conclude that expression patterns of PK2-R1 & hug between larvae & adults are "almost comparable." They don't track neurons over development or immortalize neurons in larvae & check expression patterns in adults. They need to show some type of quantification to support these claims. Or revise the text to remove this conclusion.

      We agree. We have changed our augments as follow (line 211-214).

      Interestingly, the expression patterns of PK2-R1 and Hug as well as the morphology of HugPC neurons in adults appeared to be similar to those in larvae (Figure 6—figure supplement 2), implying that the differential roles of Hug in larvae vs adults are likely due to physiological differences in HugPC neurons and/or IPCs.

      (18) For Figure 6, what effect does genetic inactivation of IPCs have on adult sleep? A more specific manipulation of these cells would provide better support for the conclusion that IPC manipulations have distinct effects on larval & adult sleep. The sleep traces for the hugin manipulation & dilp mutants (Figure 6-Figure Supplement 1) also look inconsistent when comparing genetic controls in (Figure 6-Figure Supplement 1D) or when comparing the dilp mutants. Plotting this data as total sleep amount in the day & night (2 separate graphs) would be beneficial. It would also be helpful to see additional sleep traces for these experiments.

      According to the reviewer’s comments, we have added the sleep amounts of added dilp3 and dilp5 adults (Figure 6-figure supplement 1C-D) as well as IPC silencing (Figure6-figure supplement 3D) in a daytime/night time sleep-separated manner.

      (19) For Figure 6, what effect does thermogenetic activation of hugin neurons have on IPC activity? The authors demonstrate in Figure 5 that thermal activation results in an increase in larval IPC activity, but they do not show these experiments in the adult brain. These experiments would provide more support for their conclusion that hugin has differential effects on IPC activity depending on the developmental age (larvae vs adults).

      According to the reviewer’s comments, we performed thermo-activation of hugin neurons and found no significant effects on adult IPCs (see Author response image 3), consists with the ex vivo data in Figure 6.

      Author response image 3.

      (20) A figure legend is needed for Figure 7. The model is not self-explanatory, nor is there an adequate explanation in the discussion section.

      We have added legends (line 781-785).

      (21) Since hugin is known to be downstream of Dh44 in larvae, the discussion needs to include comparison to published work on Dh44 in larvae (Poe et al, 2023). The hugin receptor, PK2R1, is also expressed in Dh44 & DMS neurons (Schlegel et al, 2016), so a discussion of what role Dh44/DMS neurons may play in their model is necessary.

      We agree. We have added discussion as follow in Discussion (line 313-320).

      We cannot rule out the possibility that other neurons could function downstream of HuginPC neurons in sleep regulation. For instance, given that Dh44 neurons in the brain promote arousal (Poe et al. 2023) and are PK2-R1-positive (Schlegel et al. 2016), Hugin might control sleep in part through Dh44 neurons.

      (22) Minor point: Line 97 should say "resulted in a significant sleep increase." Currently, it says "decrease" which is not what is depicted in the figure.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s point. We have corrected this.

      (23) Minor point: Figure 5 should be renamed as Figure 4 since the text describing the results in Figure 5A & 5B occurs before the text describing the results in Figure 4.

      We do understand the point the reviewer arose. However, since Fig5A explains the experimental setup of the whole Fig5s, we would like to keep Fig5A at the original position.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      First, the study would benefit from a more comprehensive discussion of previous research, particularly the work by Schlegel et al. (2016) and Melcher and Pankratz (2006). A key inconsistency that should be addressed is the observation that hugin mutant larvae exhibit reduced body size and feeding behavior, which may influence Dilp2 secretion. The selective effect on Dilp3 and Dilp5 without affecting Dilp2 warrants further clarification. Conducting conditional gene expression experiments to control hugin, dilp3, and dilp5 expression, along with neuronal activity modulation, would help determine whether the observed effects are direct or secondary consequences.

      According to the review’s comments, we tried to manipulate neuronal activity in IPCs, but unfortunately, expression of Kir2.1 in IPCs caused die or very weak animals. Instead, we cited a recent paper that shows a differential secretion of Dilp2 and Dilp6 in a stimulant-dependent manner (Suzawa et al. PNAS 2025) and added more discussion about selective Dilp3/5 secretion by Hugin-PK2-R1 signals (line 275-297).

      Second, the specificity of IPC secretion mechanisms should be clarified. Given that IPCs coexpress Dilp2, Dilp3, and Dilp5, it remains unclear how the pathway selectively modulates Dilp3 and Dilp5 while leaving Dilp2 unaffected. Additional experiments, such as electron microscopy, could provide insights into whether anatomical differences in vesicular pools influence peptide secretion. Since hugin mutants are reported to have reduced body size, confirming that Dilp2 secretion remains truly unchanged is crucial for eliminating potential indirect effects.

      We thank this reviewer for the valuable suggestions. Since the selective Dilp secretion mechanisms in IPCs are not the main scope in this paper, we would like to attempt detailed EM analysis in next studies. We cited a recent paper that shows a differential secretion of Dilp2 and Dilp6 from IPCs in a stimulant-dependent manner (Suzawa et al. PNAS 2025) and added more discussion about selective Dilp3/5 secretion by Hugin-PK2-R1 signals (line 275-297).

      Third, the study should explore the potential role of alternative circuits, such as the HuginPCDH44 pathway, in sleep regulation. The observation that DH44 mutants exhibit even greater sleep amounts than PK2-R1 mutants suggests the involvement of additional regulatory mechanisms. Prior studies indicate that HuginPC neurons may influence DH44 neuron activity, which could impact sleep. Furthermore, recent findings link DH44 with starvation-induced sleep loss in adult flies. Discussing and experimentally investigating the HuginPC-DH44 axis in larval sleep regulation would provide additional depth to the study.

      As far as we understand, any direct evidence for HuginPC→DH44 pathway has not been reported in larvae as well as adults. Instead, DH44 influences Hugin neuron activity in adults (King et al. 2017). We thus examined whether optogenetic DH44 activation could influence HuginPC activity using CRTC analysis, but unfortunately, we could not detect significant changes in HuginPC activity.

      Given that PK2-R1 is expressed in DH44-positive neurons (Schelgel et al 2016) and that DH44-positive neurons are localized at the regions to which HuginPC neurons innervate, it is still possible that the HuginPC→DH44 pathway might function in parallel to the HuginPC→IPCs pathway. We feel that this is quite an interesting possibility and should be a nice scope in the next paper.

      Fourth, validating the functional connectivity between HuginPC neurons and IPCs using calcium imaging would significantly enhance the study. Employing real-time calcium imaging with GCaMPs would provide direct evidence of synaptic activity between these neuronal populations. Such data would strengthen the claim that the observed sleep regulatory effects result from direct neural communication rather than secondary systemic influences.

      We agree. Indeed, we tried Ca<sup>2+</sup> imaging of HuginPC neurons and IPCs in living larvae as well as using ex vivo preparations, and realized that it was quite technically difficult to obtain reliable Ca<sup>2+</sup> dynamics data in the brain of living larvae/ex vivo brain tissue. Therefore, instead of live Ca<sup>2+</sup> imaging, we performed the CRTC analysis using fixed brain preparations. We have added the mention that we tried Ca<sup>2+</sup> imaging in the larval brain, but it did not work well (line 555-558).

      Finally, a more detailed discussion of developmental differences in sleep regulatory mechanisms would be beneficial. The manuscript should address why genes involved in sleep modulation during development may function differently from their roles in adult sleep regulation. Providing a conceptual framework or experimental evidence to explain these developmental differences would enhance the study's contribution to understanding the evolution of sleep circuits. Clarifying how these findings fit into broader sleep regulation models would increase the impact of the research.

      We agree. We would like to add discussions about how factors/circuits involved in sleep modulation during development may function differently from their roles in adult sleep regulation as follows (line 349-371), as it is rather difficult to discuss why.

      It is thus possible that Hugin/PK2-R1 signaling along the HugPC-IPCs circuitry is suppressed in adults. IPCs in adults receive multiple positive and negative modulatory inputs through GPCRs including the metabotropic GABA<sub>B</sub> receptors (Enell et al., 2010), which suppresses IPC activity and Dilp release in adult IPCs (Enell et al., 2010). It is thus plausible that such negative modulatory inputs to IPCs in adults might counteract with the Hugin/PK2-R1 axis to suppress Dilp release. In addition, our data suggest that Dilps modulate sleep amount in the opposite directions in larvae and adults (Figure 7). Comparing the expression levels and activities of GPCRs in larval and adult IPCs would be essential to better understand how the same modulatory signals over the course of development come to exert differential impacts on sleep. Interestingly, Hugin in adults appears irrelevant for the baseline sleep amount but is required for homeostatic regulation of sleep (Schwarz et al., 2021). Thus, testing if Hugin/PK2-R1 axis is involved in the homeostatic regulation of larval sleep, and how such a system compares to its adult counterpart, may further provide mechanistic insights into how homeostatic sleep regulation matures over development.

      By addressing these aspects, the manuscript will provide a clearer, more robust, and wellsupported analysis of larval sleep regulation. These refinements will help improve the study's clarity and impact, ensuring that its findings are effectively communicated to the research community.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Line 97: "Silencing neurons expressing Oamb and PK2-R1 resulted in a significant sleep decrease?" But there is an increase in sleep amounts from Figure 1A. (Typo error).

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out this typo. We have corrected this typo in the revised version.

      (2) Line139: "HugPC and IPCs labeled by Dilp3-GAL4 are located in close proximity to each other." While proximity does not equal synaptic connections, direct connectivity of HugPC and IPCs was already shown in larval connectome analyses with HugPC providing the strongest input of larval IPCs (Hückesfeld et al. eLife 2021). This could be cited in this context instead.

      We agree. We have cited this paper in References (line 163).

      (3) Figure 2 Supplement 1: Locomotion speed is affected in PK2-R1 knockouts; what is the significance regarding the observed sleep increase?

      We agree that this is a very important point. As the reviewer pointed out, since locomotion speed was reduced in PK2-R1 KO larvae, sleep increase phenotype in PK2-R1 KO larvae might be in part due to reduction of locomotion. On the other hand, IPCs silencing by Kir2.1caused sleep increase phenotype without significant changes in locomotion (Figure 2; Figure 2-figure supplement 1). It is thus possible that since PK2-R1 is broadly expressed in the nervous system in addition to IPCs (Figure 2), PK2-R1 neurons other than IPCs might contribute to locomotion control.

      (4) Why are Dilp3 levels changing (increasing) in adult IPCs after PK-2 treatment? This is not mentioned in the text and is not discussed at all.

      As the reviewer indicated, this data is unexpected to us. At this moment, we could only assume that PK-2 could act in larval and adult IPCs in a different manner. We have added this sentence in Results (line 211-214).

      (5) It has been shown in other publications that Dilps play a role in sleep regulation (Cong et al., Sleep 2015), this study should be cited.

      We have cited this paper in References (line 224).

      (6) The order of discussing figure panels is sometimes confusing, e.g. Figure 6C is discussed at the very end after 6D-F.

      We agree. Indeed, we discussed a lot about this order during preparation of the first draft. However, we finally decided the current order, as grouping “sleep phenotype data” and “ex vivo data” should be easier to understand for readers. We thus keep the current order in the revised submission.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, Henning et al. examine the impact of GABAergic feedback inhibition on the motion-sensitive pathway of flies. Based on a previous behavioral screen, the authors determined that C2 and C3, two GABAergic inhibitory feedback neurons in the optic lobes of the fly, are required for the optomotor response. Through a series of calcium imaging and disruption experiments, connectomics analysis, and follow-up behavioral assays, the authors concluded that C2 and C3 play a role in temporally sharpening visual motion responses. While this study employs a comprehensive array of experimental approaches, I have some reservations about the interpretation of the results in their current form. I strongly encourage the authors to provide additional data to solidify their conclusions. This is particularly relevant in determining whether this is a general phenomenon affecting vision or a specific effect on motion vision. Knowing this is also important for any speculation on the mechanisms of the observed temporal deficiencies.

      Strengths:

      This study uses a variety of experiments to provide a functional, anatomical, and behavioral description of the role of GABAergic inhibition in the visual system. This comprehensive data is relevant for anyone interested in understanding the intricacies of visual processing in the fly.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The most fundamental criticism of this study is that the authors present a skewed view of the motion vision pathway in their results. While this issue is discussed, it is important to demonstrate that there are no temporal deficiencies in the lamina, which could be the case since C2 and C3, as noted in the connectomics analysis, project strongly to laminar interneurons. If the input dynamics are indeed disrupted, then the disruption seen in the motion vision pathway would reflect disruptions in temporal processing in general and suggest that these deficiencies are inherited downstream. A simple experiment could test this. Block C2, C3, and both together using Kir2.1 and Shibire independently, then record the ERG. Alternatively, one could image any other downstream neuron from the lamina that does not receive C2 or C3 input.

      Given the prominent connectivity of C2 and C3 to lamina neurons, we actually expected that lamina processing is also affected. We did the experiment of silencing C2 and recording in the lamina neuron L2 and found no significant difference in their response profile (Author response image 1).

      Author response image 1.

      Calcium responses of L2 axon terminals to full field ON and PFF flashes for controls (grey, N=8 flies, 59 cells) or while genetically silencing C2 using shibire<sup>ts</sup> (magenta, N=4 flies, 26 cells). Traces show mean +- SEM.

      We could include these data in the main manuscript, but we do not really feel comfortable in claiming that C2 and C3 have a specific role in motion processing only, even if it was predominantly affecting medulla neurons. To our knowledge, how peripheral visual circuitry contributes to any other visual behaviors, such as object detection, including the pursuit of mating partners, or escape behaviors, is not well understood. Instead, we added a sentence to the discussion stating that our work does not exclude that, given their wide connectivity, C2 and C3 are also involved in other visual computations.

      (2) Figure 6c. More analysis is required here, since the authors claim to have found a loss in inhibition (ND). However, the difference in excitation appears similar, at least in absolute magnitude (see panel 6c), for PD direction for the T4 C2 and C3 blocks. Also, I predict that C2 & C3 block statistically different from C3 only, why? In any case, it would be good to discuss the clear trend in the PD direction by showing the distribution of responses as violin plots to better understand the data. It would also be good to have some raw traces to be able to see the differences more clearly, not only polar plots and averages.

      We apologize: The plots in the manuscript show the mean across all cells, but the statistics were done more conservatively, across flies. We corrected this mismatch and the figure now shows the mean ± ste across flies after first averaging across cells within each fly. Thank you for pointing this out. Since we recorded n=6-8 flies per genotype, we did not include violin plots, which would indeed make sense if we showed data for each cell.

      (3) The behavioral experiments are done with a different disruptor than the physiological ones. One blocks chemical synapses, the other shunts the cells. While one would expect similar results in both, this is not a given. It would be great if the authors could test the behavioral experiments with Kir2.1, too.

      We have tried this experiment, but unfortunately, flies were not walking well on the ball, and we were not able to obtain data of sufficient quality.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The work by Henning et al. explores the role of feedback inhibition in motion vision circuits, providing the first identification of inhibitory inheritance in motion-selective T4 and T5 cells of Drosophila. This work advances our current knowledge in Drosophila motion vision and sets the way for further exploring the intricate details of direction-selective computations.

      Strengths:

      Among the strengths of this work is the verification of the GABAergic nature of C2 and C3 with genetic and immunohistochemical approaches. In addition, double-silencing C2&C3 experiments help to establish a functional role for these cells. The authors holistically use the Drosophila toolbox to identify neural morphologies, synaptic locations, network connectivity, neuronal functions, and the behavioral output.

      Weaknesses:

      The authors claim that C2 and C3 neurons are required for direction selectivity, as per the publication's title; however, even with their double silencing, the directional T4 & T5 responses are not completely abolished. Therefore, the contribution of this inherited feedback in direction-selective computations is not a prerequisite for its emergence, and the title could be re-adjusted.

      We adjusted the title to “are involved in motion detection.”

      Connectivity is assessed in one out of the two available connectome datasets; therefore, it would make the study stronger if the same connectivity patterns were identified in both datasets.

      We did not assume large differences between the datasets because Nern et al. 2025 described no major sexual dimorphism. To verify this, we now plotted C2 and C3 connectivity from the three major EM datasets that include C2/C3 connectivity, the female FAFB dataset (Zheng et al. 2018, Dorkenwald et al. 2024, Schlegel et al. 2024) the male visual system (Nern et al. 2025), and the 7-column dataset (Takemura et al. 2015) and see no major differences (Author response image 2 and Author response image 3).

      Author response image 2.

      Relative pres- and post-synaptic counts for C3 from 3 different data sets. Shown are up to ten post- or pre-synaptic partner neurons.

      Author response image 3.

      Relative pres- and post-synaptic counts for C2 from 3 different data sets. Shown are up to ten post- or pre-synaptic partner neurons.

      The mediating neural correlates from C2 & C3 to T4 & T5 are not clarified; rather, Mi1 is found to be one of them. The study could be improved if the same set of silencing experiments performed for C2-Mi1 were extended to C2 &C3-Tm1 or Tm4 to find the T5 neural mediators of this feedback inhibition loop. Stating more clearly from the connectomic analysis, the potential T5 mediators would be equally beneficial. Future experiments might also disentangle the parallel or separate functions of C2 and C3 neurons.

      We fully agree that one could go down this route. Given the widespread connectivity of C2 and C3, and the fact that these are time-consuming experiments with often complex genetics, we had decided to instead study the “compound effect” of C2 and C3 silencing by analyzing T4/T5 physiological properties and motion-guided behavior. We now explicitly explain this logic by saying, “To understand the compound effect of C2 and C3 on motion processing, we focused on the direction-selective T4/T5 neurons, which are downstream of many of the neurons that C2 and C3 directly connect to.”

      Finally, the authors' conclusions derive from the set of experiments they performed in a logical manner. Nonetheless, the Discussion could benefited from a more extensive explanation on the following matters: why do the ON-selective C2 and C3 neurons control OFF-generated behaviors, why the T4&T5 responses after C2&C3 silencing differ between stationary and moving stimuli and finally why C2 and not C3 had an effect in T5 DS responses, as the connectivity suggests C3 outputting to two out of the four major T5 cholinergic inputs.

      Apart from the behavioral screen results, we only tested ON edges in our more detailed behavioral characterizations. And while we show phenotypes for the OFF-DS cell T5, it is well established that inhibitory cells that respond to one contrast polarity can function in the pathway with the opposite contrast polarity (e.g., the OFF-selective Mi9 in the ON pathway). We realized that our narrative in the results section was misleading in this regard (we had given the ON selectivity of C2/C3 as one argument why we first focused on the ON pathway) and eliminated this argument.

      For the differential involvement of C2/C3 for T4/T5 responses to stationary and moving stimuli (C2 and C3 silencing affects both T4 and T5 DS responses, but mostly T4 flash responses): We mostly took the disinhibition of flash responses in T4 as a motivation to look more specifically at a potential role in motion-computation. We now added a sentence about the potential emergence of these flash responses to the already extensive discussion paragraph “How could inhibitory feedback neurons affect motion detection in the ON pathway?”

      Last, we added a discussion point about the relationship between C2 and C3 connectivity and the functional consequences, and discussed the fact that C3 connectivity alone does not correlate with a functional role of C3 (alone) in DS computation.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This article is about the neural circuitry underlying motion vision in the fruit fly. Specifically, it regards the roles of two identified neurons, called C2 and C3, that form columnar connections between neurons in the lamina and medulla, including neurons that are presynaptic to the elementary motion detectors T4 and T5. The approach takes advantage of specific fly lines in which one can disable the synaptic outputs of either or both of the C2/3 cell types. This is combined with optical recording from various neurons in the circuit, and with behavioral measurements of the turning reaction to moving stimuli.

      The experiments are planned logically. The effects of silencing the C2/C3 neurons are substantial in size. The dominant effect is to make the responses of downstream neurons more sustained, consistent with a circuit role in feedback or feedforward inhibition. Silencing C2/C3 also makes the motion-sensitive neurons T4/T5 less direction-selective. However, the turning response of the fly is affected only in subtle ways. Detection of motion appears unaffected. But the response fails to discriminate between two motion pulses that happen in close succession. One can conclude that C2/C3 are involved in the motion vision circuit, by sharpening responses in time, though they are not essential for its basic function of motion detection.

      Strengths:

      The combination of cutting-edge methods available in fruit fly neuroscience. Well-planned experiments carried out to a high standard. Convincing effects documenting the role of these neurons in neural processing and behavior.

      Weaknesses:

      The report could benefit from a mechanistic argument linking the effects at the level of single neurons, the resulting neural computations in elementary motion detectors, and the altered behavioral response to visual motion.

      We agree that we cannot fully draw this mechanistic argument, but we also do not think that this is a realistic goal of this study. Even in a scenario where one would measure the temporal and spatial properties of “all” neurons that are connected to C2 and C3, this would likely not reveal the full mechanisms linking the single neurons to DS computation, but would require silencing specific connections, or specific molecular components of the connection, or could be complemented by models. A beautiful example where such a mechanistic understanding was achieved, recently published in Nature, essentially focused on a single synaptic connection (between Mi9 and T4) (Groschner et al. 2024), and built on extensive work that had already highlighted the importance of these neurons. We would further argue that the field does not have a good understanding of how T4/T5 responses are translated into behavior. Although possible pathways emerge from connectomes, it is for example not understood why the temporal frequency tuning of T4/T5 substantially differs from the temporal frequency tuning of the optomotor response.

      We therefore would like to highlight that the focus of our study was not to connect all those pieces, but rather to highlight the hitherto unknown overall importance of inhibitory feedback neurons for visual computations along the visual hierarchy, from individual neuron properties, via DS computation, to the temporal precision of the optomotor response.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Line 52: "The functional significance of feedback neurons, particularly inhibitory feedback mechanisms, in early visual processing is not understood."

      This is incorrect not only because it is referred to as a general statement, but also because many studies have examined inhibition in flies. It may not be solely GABAergic inhibition, but that is just one type. While some discussions later address feedback from horizontal cells in the retina, etc., there is no mention of work on color vision, which requires feedback. Please rephrase.

      We now say “visual motion processing” in this sentence, and added a sentence on color vision: “... color-opponent signalling requires reciprocal inhibition between photoreceptors as well as feedback inhibition from distal medulla (Dm) neurons. (Schnaitmann et al., 2018, Heath et al., 2020, Schnaitmann et al., 2024). “

      (2) Line 197: "Because a previous studies" One or many?, but more important, please cite them.

      We corrected to “a previous study” and cite Tuthill et al. 2013

      (3) Line 172: I noticed a few minor grammatical errors and wording issues, such as the use of "we next" twice in one sentence. "To next identify potential GABAergic neurons that are important for motion computation in the ON pathway, we next intersected 12 InSITE-Gal4." I am bad at picking them out, but since I noticed them, I would strongly suggest looking at the text carefully again.

      We deleted one occurrence of ‘next’, thank you for catching that.

      (4) Question to the authors. Why did you use twice independent lines and not checkers for the white noise analysis in Figure 3e?

      We used flickering bars because many visual system neurons tested in our lab respond with a better signal-to-noise ratio as compared to checkerboards. Flickering bars also appear to be more suited to isolate the spatial surround of neurons. This type of stimulus has been successfully used in previous studies to extract receptive fields of neurons in the fly visual system (Arenz et al. 2017; Leong et al., 2016, Salazar-Gatzimas et al. 2016; Fisher et al. 2015, …).

      (5) Line 248: "Because C2 emerged as a prominent candidate from the behavioral screen, we focused on C2 and asked how silencing C2 affects..." Please state how here. I would need to go to the methods.

      We added a sentence “C2 was silenced by expression of UAS-shibire<sup>ts</sup> (UAS-shi<sup>ts</sup>) for temporal control of the inhibition of synaptic activity.”

      (6) Much of the work in the blowfly uses picrotoxinin to block GABAergic inhibition in the visual motion pathway. It would be useful to mention some of this early work and its results, particularly that of Single et al. (1997). It might be interesting to reinterpret their results.

      Thank you for pointing this out. We added this paragraph to the discussion: ‘Work in blowflies has found a severe impact of GABAergic signaling for DS in LPTCs downstream of T4 and T5 cells, using application of picrotoxin to the whole brain (Single et al. 1997; Schmid and Bülthoff 1988). Although the loss of DS in LPTCs could originate from direct inhibitory synapses onto LPTCs (Mauss et al. 2015; Ammer et al. 2023), the disruption of GABAergic signaling in upstream circuitry, which reduces DS in T4 and T5, may also contribute to the phenotype seen in LPTCs.’

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The following set of corrections aims to better the scientific and presentation aspects of this work.

      (1) The title of the work implies that C2 and C3 neurons are required for motion processing, whereas the study shows their participation in motion computations, which persists post their silencing. Therefore, "Inhibitory columnar feedback neurons contribute to Drosophila motion processing" would be a more appropriate title.

      We rephrased the title to say that inhibitory feedback neurons “are involved in” motion processing.

      (2) The morphology of C2 and C3 neurons, i.e., ramifications in medulla & cell body in medulla and axonal targeting to lamina, implies their feedback role. It would be important to mention the specific feedback loop they participate in and the role of Mi1 more extensively in lines 36, 120.

      We find it hard to speculate on the specific feedback loops that C2 and C3 are involved in from their widespread input and output connectivity. If we had, we would have wanted to support this by functional measurements of this specific loop, which was not the goal of this study.

      (3) In lines 55-89, the authors explore the instances of feedback inhibition within and across species and modalities. For the Drosophila visual example (lines 76-89), given that it also addresses motion circuits, the following studies should be included:

      Ammer, G., Serbe-Kamp, E., Mauss, A.S., et al. Multilevel visual motion opponency in Drosophila. Nat Neurosci 26, 1894-1905 (2023). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41593-023-01443-z. Mabuchi Y, Cui X, Xie L, Kim H, Jiang T, Yapici N. Visual feedback neurons fine-tune Drosophila male courtship via GABA-mediated inhibition. Curr Biol. 2023 Sep 25;33(18):3896-3910.e7. doi: 10.1016/j.cub.2023.08.034.

      We added a sentence on the Ammer et al. finding to the introduction. Since the introduction paragraph focuses on known physiological effects within the visual system, we did not find a good fit for the Mabuchi et al. study, which focuses on serotonergic feedback neurons with a role far downstream in courtship behavior.

      (4) In lines 102-103, the following work should be referenced: Groschner LN, Malis JG, Zuidinga B, Borst A. A biophysical account of multiplication by a single neuron. Nature. 2022 Mar;603(7899):119-123. doi: 10.1038/s41586-022-04428-3.

      We cited a few of the many papers that used “modeling frameworks” and selected the ones focusing on the entire feedforward circuitry. To also give credit to the Borst lab, we instead added Serbe et al. 2016 here.

      (5) In lines 107-108, the Braun et al. (2023) study has not performed Rdl knockdown experiments in T4 cells; hence, it needs to be better clarified in the text.

      We corrected this in the text.

      (6) Even though the dataset was previously published, a summary plot of the different phenotypes would be very helpful to the reader. Moreover, in line 131, as the study focuses on motion vision, it would be better to use "early motion visual processing" rather than "early visual processing.”

      We added a summary plot of the behavioral screen data to Supplementary figure 1, and rephrased previous line 131.

      (7) The first result section title excludes C3 neurons, even though in lines 172-179 they are addressed; therefore, the C3 inclusion is suggested as in "GABAergic C2 and C3 neurons control behavioral responses to motion cues". The term "required" should be excluded from the title as the other neuronal types encountered in the InSITE drivers were never quantified; thus, the "behavioral requirement" might come from these other neurons as well.

      From the experiments shown in this paragraph alone we cannot make conclusive claims about C3, as it was also weakly visible in one of our genetic control in the intersectional strategy that we took (we had written: “This strategy also revealed other GABAergic cell types, including the columnar neuron C3 and the large amacrine cell CT1 which were however also weakly present in the gad1-p65AD control).

      We changed the title of this paragraph to: A forward genetic behavioral screen identifies GABAergic C2 neurons to be involved in motion detection.

      (8) In line 142, it should be clearly stated that the MultiColor FlpOut technique was used and should also be cited: Nern A, Pfeiffer BD, Rubin GM. Optimized tools for multicolor stochastic labeling reveal diverse stereotyped cell arrangements in the fly visual system. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2015 Jun 2;112(22):E2967-76. doi: 10.1073/pnas.1506763112.

      We did not use MCFO clones, but simple Flp-out clones, and the genotype and reference for this were given in the methods: UAS-FRT-CD2y+-RFT-mCD8::GFP; UAS-Flp , (Wong et al. 2002). To make this clearer, we now also cite (Wong et al. 2002) in the results section.

      (9) In Figure 1c, a description of RFP should be written as it is already in Supplementary Figure 1c.

      We added this to the Figure caption.

      (10) In line 172, "next" is redundant as it was previously used at the beginning of the sentence.

      Removed

      (11) In line 175, based on both figures that the authors refer to, instead of C2, C3 should be written.

      We do indeed see C3 labeled in the images, but also in a gad1-p65AD control. We thus cannot be sure if C3 indeed reflects the intersection pattern. However, the three lines shown in Figure 1d clearly also label C2, which is not seen in the control condition.

      (12) In line 184, a split-C2 line is used (and a split C3 as in Supplementary Figure 2). It would enhance the credibility of the work and even be appropriate afterwards to use the word "requirement" if this split-C2 line was used for behavioral experiments, as in Gohl et al., 2011, and Sillies et al.,2013 studies.

      We are indeed using the same split-C2 line for imaging and for behavioral experiments in Figure 7. We see Figure 1 (and with that, Silies et al. 2013) as a first pass screen, from which we obtained candidates, which we then more thoroughly tested throughout the remaining manuscript, with more specific lines. We are no longer using the word “requirement”

      (13) In lines 186-188, is DenMark used as a postsynaptic marker? If yes, an additional control would be the use of Discs-large (DLG) as a postsynaptic marker, as DenMark would not be restricted to postsynaptic densities.

      Yes, we used DenMark as written in the sentence “we expressed GFP-tagged Synaptotagmin (Syt::GFP) to label pre-synapses together with the dendritic marker DenMark (Nicolai et al., 2010)”. Since our claims about widespread C2 and C3 connectivity are further supported by connectomics, we did not use another postsynaptic marker.

      (14) In line 191, L2 is mentioned as presynaptic, whereas in Figure 2b is clearly postsynaptic.

      We write “This revealed that C2 forms several presynaptic contacts with the lamina neurons L5, L1, and L2” . L5, L1, and L2 are hence postsynaptic to C2, which is what is plotted in Figure 2b. 

      (15) In line 197, the "a" in "because a previous studies" should be removed, and these studies should be cited as the authors do in line 514.

      Done as suggested.

      (16) In line 1191, the figure title uses the term "required", whereas the plotted data suggest that T4 and T5 responses remain DS after C2&C3 silencing. Rephrasing to "C2 and C3 affect direction-selective.." would be better suited.

      We replaced “required” with “contribute to”

      (17) In the legend of Figure 2b, the "Counts of synapses" is misleading. The number plotted refers to the percentage of synapse counts from the target neuron.

      Corrected.

      (18) A general question about the C2 and C3 ON selectivity: How would the authors explain the OFF deficits from the published behavioral screening in Supplementary Figure 1a? Do the other InSITE neurons contribute to it? This needs to be further elaborated in the discussion.

      A neuron being ON selective does not imply that it is functionally required in the ON pathway only. In fact, Mi9, a major component of the ON pathway (even if not “required” under many stimulus conditions), is OFF selective.

      Furthermore, both we (Ramos-Traslosheros and Silies, 2021) and others (Salazar-Gatzimas et al. 2019) have shown that both ON and OFF signals are combined in ON and OFF pathways, which is further supported by connectomics data. We clarified the transition from physiology to function in the results section, as already explained above.

      (19) In line 216, the authors' image from layer M1, but the reasoning behind this choice is missing. The explanation gap intensifies after you proceed with further examining the layer-specific responses in Supplementary Figure 2. Is this because C2 and C3 receive their inputs in M1, as is insinuated in line 219?

      As Supplementary Figure 2 shows, we initially imaged from all layers of the medulla, where C2 arborizes. Because the response properties, including kinetics, weren’t different, we had no reason to believe that C2 is highly compartmentalized. We thus subsequently focused on layer M1, where amplitudes were highest. We clarified this in the text.

      (20) In line 229, it should be clear whether the STRFs come from M1 measurements. STRF analysis in M5, M8, and M9/10 also verifies that the C2, C3 multicolumnar span would further strengthen the results. Given the focus of the work in Mi1 and T4/T5, Mi1-C2 connections should be clarified in terms of which medulla layer they formulate. Additionally, the reasoning behind showing in Figure 3 STRFs from M1 measurements, even though Supplementary Figure 2b implies equal responses in M9/10, where also Tm1 and Tm4 output from C3, should be explained.

      We never recorded STRFs in the silenced condition and make no claims about C2 changing spatial properties of Mi1. We added the information that STRFs were recorded in layer M1 to the figure caption. We checked the specific connectivity of C2 and Mi1 and they indeed connect in M1 (Author response image 4), but regardless of this result, there is no evidence for compartmentalization in these columnar neurons.

      Author response image 4.

      Image of a C2 (blue) and Mi1 (yellow) neuron from EM Data (FAFB). Circles depict synapses from C2 to Mi1 in layer M1 of the medulla.

      (21) In Figure 3e, the statistical significance or lack thereof is not visible at the bar plot.

      Consistently throughout the manuscript, we now just indicate if a comparison is significant. If nothing is shown, it means that it is not.

      To clarify this, we added a sentence to the statistics section in the methods now saying: We show significant differences in figures using asterisks (p<0.05 *,p<0.01 **, p<0.001***). Non-significant differences are not further indicated.

      Please note that based on another reviewer comment, we also adapted the analysis of the kernels. This changed the statistics to be significant for the timing of the on peak response (Figure 3e).’

      (22) In line 249, it is mentioned that the strongest C2 connection is Mi1; this does not derive from the data shown in Figure 2b.

      We intended to look at medulla neurons, and Mi1 is the most connected medulla neuron to C2. We clarified that in the text, which now reads: “Because C2 emerged as a prominent candidate from the behavioral screen, we focused on C2 and asked how silencing C2 affects temporal and spatial filter properties of the medulla neurons that provide direct input to T4 neurons. We chose to test Mi1 as it is the medulla neuron most strongly connected to C2.”

      (23) The result section title "C2 & C3 neurons shape response properties of the ON pathway medulla neuron Mi1" does not include C3 results. This would be fundamental to have. As previously mentioned, the neural correlates of this inhibitory feedback loop should be clearly defined, and the current version of this work evades doing so.

      We corrected the title. As discussed elsewhere, it was not the goal of this study to work the specific contributions of C2 (and C3) to all neurons they connect to, but rather focus on the compound effect for motion detection.

      (24) In line 276, the following work should be cited: Maisak MS, Haag J, Ammer G, Serbe E, Meier M, Leonhardt A, Schilling T, Bahl A, Rubin GM, Nern A, Dickson BJ, Reiff DF, Hopp E, Borst A. A directional tuning map of Drosophila elementary motion detectors. Nature. 2013 Aug 8;500(7461):212-6. doi: 10.1038/nature12320.

      We added the citation.

      (25) In line 273, the title implies the investigation of the spatial filtering of T4 and T5 cells. This does not take place in the respective result section.

      We changed the title to: “C2 and C3 shape temporal and spatial response properties of T4 and T5 neurons.”

      (26) In line 280, Kir2.1 is used, whereas previously thermogenetic silencing with Shibirets was preferred; could the authors elaborate on this choice in the text, for example, genetic reasons?

      We generally prefer shibire[ts] because of its inducible nature. However, our T4/T5 recordings too included more stimuli (motion stimuli) than the Mi1 recordings, and the effect of shi[ts] mediated silencing by pre-heating the flies (as established by Joesch et al. 2010) was not longlasting enough for these experiments, which is why we used Kir2.1. In a previous set of experiments, we had tried incubating flies while imaging, but this induced too large movements of the brain and T4/T5 recordings were not stable enough.

      (27) In lines 290-291, T5 ON suppression is found to be affected by C2 silencing, but the bar plot in Figure 5b uses the OFF-step data. It would be best if the ON-step data for T5 cells were also plotted.

      ON-step data for T5 are plotted in Supplementary Fig. 3e

      (28) In line 288, "when C2 was also blocked", "also" should be included, as you are referring to double silencing.

      Sorry for the confusion, we called the wrong figure in that sentence. Here, we wanted to point at the increased response of T4 to the ON-step upon C2 silencing, which was quantified in Supplementary Fig. 3e.

      (29) In line 312, it is important to mention in the discussion why it is the case that C2 and not C3 had an effect on T5 DS responses. C2 outputs to Tm1, whereas C3 to Tm1 and Tm4, based on Figure 2b, with Tm1 and Tm4 being one of the four major cholinergic T5 inputs. Hence, it would be natural to think that C3 and not C2 would affect T5 responses.

      We addressed this in the discussion.

      (30) In lines 326-328, it is crucial to mention the neural correlates that connect C2 and C3 to T4 and T5. Additionally, the Shinomiya et al. (2019) study shows C3 to T4 connections, which are mentioned in the discussion and should be cited in line 429.

      We do not think that mentioning neural correlates at this point is crucial, as these sentences were concluding a paragraph in which we link C2/C3 silencing to T4/T5 responses. We also do not know the neural correlates (but for Mi1) so this would not be accurate.

      We have been mentioning C3 to T4 connection in both the results and discussion, and our analysis (Figure 2) stems from the FAFB dataset. We added citations to both results and discussion.

      (31) In Figure 6a, compared to Figure 3b, the term compass plots is used instead of polar plots. It would be best to use one consistent term. Additionally, in Figure 6c, it is not mentioned if the responses across genotypes are the outcome of averaging across subtype responses.

      These two plots are not the same; a compass plot is a sub-category of polar plots. Polar plots, as in Figure 3, show the response amplitude of the neurons to the different directions of motion. Instead, compass plots, as in Figure 6, show vectors that depict the tuning direction and the strength of tuning of individual neurons.

      We added the following sentence to clarify the calculation in Figure 6c: ‘To average responses of all neurons, the PD of each neuron was determined by its maximal response to one of 8 directions shown.'

      (32) In line 344, the title could be adjusted to "C2 is controlling the temporal dynamics of ON behavior", under the same reasoning of 'requirements' explained before.

      We think that “is controlling” is a stronger claim than “being required”. For a geneticist, the word “required” simply means that there is a(ny) loss of function phenotype, i.e., a reduction in DS when C2 and C3 are silenced/blocked. Many neurons are sufficient but not required to induce a certain behavior (i.e., they can induce a behavior when ectopically activated, but show no significant loss of function phenotype). We therefore consider it remarkable that C2 and C3 silencing indeed shows a significant reduction in DS.

      However, we do not want to overclaim anything, and the title now reads: “T4 tunes the temporal dynamics of ON behavior”

      (33) In Figure 7c, the plot legend should be "deceleration".

      Corrected

      (34) In line 424, the Braun et al. (2023) experiments were performed in T5 cells as previously mentioned.

      Corrected

      (35) In line 435, the authors mention that both ON-selective C2 and C3 neurons act partially in parallel pathways. In Figure 2b, the upstream circuitry between C2 and C3 is identical. How would they explain the functional-connectivity contradiction?

      In terms of acting in parallel pathways, downstream, not upstream, connectivity of C2 and C3 will matter, which is not identical. C2 for example connects to Mi1, L1, and L4, whereas C3 does not. On the other hand, C3 connects to Mi9 and Tm4, which C2 does not.

      (36) In lines 445-447, the authors address C2 and C3 neurons as columnar, whereas they previously showed in Figure 3 that they are multicolumnar.

      Here, we refer to the nomenclature of Nern et al, that use the term “columnar” whenever something is present in each column. We specifically define this by saying “only 15 cells are truly columnar in the sense that they are present once per column and present in each column”. In the results section, we instead talk about “functionally multicolumnar” and changed a sentence in the discussion to say “The spatial receptive fields of C2 and C3 are consistent with the multicolumnar branching of their projections in the medulla” to avoid any such confusion.

      (37) In line 448, "thus" is repetitive, and the extracted view in line 449 does not contribute to the essence of the study.

      Fixed.

      (38) In line 459, the authors refer to inhibition inheritance; this term should be used frequently in the text in case the neural correlates between C2 & C3 and T4 & T5 are not deciphered.

      We think this point is very clear throughout the manuscript now. As one prominent example, we added a sentence to the first paragraph of the discussion saying “Given the widespread connectivity of C2 and C3 to neurons upstream of T4/T5, this effect [on DS tuning] is likely inherited from upstream neurons of T4/T5.”

      (39) In line 521, the transition between sentences is problematic.

      Corrected

      (40) For Supplementary Figure 1, why were the ON-motion deficits not addressed with the antibody approach used for Supplementary Figure 1a?

      The approach using anti-GABA stainings turned out to be largely redundant with the intersectional strategy. Furthermore, the intersectional strategy provided the full morphology of the cell and, hence, led to easier identification of the cell types involved.

      (41) In line 1169, C2 is mentioned, whereas C3 is annotated in the figure.

      Corrected

      (42) A general comment is that Tm1 inputs could be a good candidate for assessing T5 inputs, as performed for Mi1-T4 in Fig.4. Such experiments would enhance the understanding of inhibitory inheritance to T5 responses.

      We fully agree.

      (42) Do the authors have any indication or experiments done regarding the C2&C3 role in T4&T5 velocity tuning? This would be complementary to the direction of this study.

      This is a good idea, that we had tried. However, we did not see a difference between control and C2 silencing for the temporal frequency tuning of T4/T5. As velocity is closely related to temporal frequency tuning, we would not expect to see a difference there either.

      While it would have been nice to be able to draw such a link, we would also state that our behavioral data are a bit different: We did not look at temporal frequency tuning per se, and overall, it is not well understood how responses in T4/T5 relate to behavior, as they for example have different frequency tunings (T4/T5 physiology: Maisak et al., 2013, Arenz et al., 2017; optomotor behaviour: Strother et al.,2017, Clark et al., 2013). 

      (43) As a suggestion, Figure 7 would be better positioned as Figure 4, right after the ON-selectivity finding of C2 neurons.

      We preferred to keep the current order.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Main recommendation:

      It would be useful to propose a neural circuit model that connects the various observations. One can draw here on the many circuit models for motion vision in the prior literature.

      (1) How might the extended response in upstream neurons Mi1 lead to the inappropriate nulldirection responses in T4/T5?

      This is a good question and we can only speculate. Mi1 responses are enhanced upon C2 silencing and T4 responses to full field flash responses are also enhanced. Likely, these motionindependent responses are also seen when the edge travels into the non-preferred direction, whereas this non-motion response would likely be masked by the motion response to the preferred direction. The phenotype seen in T5 is likely inherited from medulla neurons, e.g. Tm1, to which C2 connects. How the delay of the Mi1 response upon C2 silencing may specifically affect ND responses, we don’t know. 

      (2) How is the loss of DS in T4/T5 compatible with the continued sensitivity to motion in the turning response? Perhaps the signal from 180-degree oppositely tuned T-cells gets subtracted, so as to remove the baseline activity?

      This is a great question that we cannot answer. Overall, perturbations that affect T4/T5 physiology do not necessarily manifest in equivalent phenotypes when looking at behavioral turning responses. Prominent examples come from silencing core neurons of motion-detection circuits, such as Mi1 and Tm3 (see Figure 4, Strother et al. 2017).

      (3) How do the altered dynamics in upstream neurons relate to the loss of high-frequency discrimination in the behavior? One would want to explain why the normal fly has a pronounced decay in the response even though the motion is still ongoing (Figure 7b left, starting at 0.4 s). That decay is missing in the mutant response.

      That is an excellent question that we unfortunately do not have an answer for. Please note that our visual stimuli is a single edge which is sweeping across the eye, and which might not elicit equally strong responses at each position of the eye, or each time during the stimulus presentation.

      In terms of linking the dynamics of upstream neurons to behavior, we already pointed out above that it is not well understood how responses in T4/T5 relate to behavior, as they for example have different frequency tuning, with T4/T5 neurons being tuned to lower temporal frequencies than the turning behavior of a fly walking on a ball (T4/T5 physiology: Maisak et al., 2013, Arenz et al., 2017; optomotor behaviour: Strother et al.,2017, Clark et al., 2013).

      Other recommendations:

      (1) Abstract line 37 "At the behavioral level, feedback inhibition temporally sharpens responses to ON stimuli, enhancing the fly's ability to discriminate visual stimuli that occur in quick succession." It may be worth specifying *moving* stimuli.

      Done as suggested

      (2) Line 52: "The functional significance of feedback neurons, particularly inhibitory feedback mechanisms, in early visual processing is not understood." This seems overly negative. Subsequent text mentions a number of such instances that are understood, and one could add more from the retina.

      We agree. We rephrased to say ‘motion vision’ and added more examples of known roles of feedback inhibition

      (3) Line 69: "inhibitory feedback signals from horizontal cells and amacrine cells to photoreceptors and bipolar cells, respectively, are involved in multiple mechanisms of retinal processing, including global light adaptation, spatial frequency tuning, or the center-surround organization (Diamond 2017)." Maybe add the proven role in temporal sharpening of responses, which is of relevance to the present report.

      We added temporal sharpening to that introduction point.

      (4) Figure 1: The text for this figure talks about behavioral motion detection deficits in various lines. Maybe add an example of the behavioral effects to this figure.

      We added a summary plot of the behavioral screen data to Supplementary figure 1.

      (5) Line 325: "the timing of the ON peak tended to be slower for C3 compared to C2 for both the vertical and the horizontal STRF": It's hard to see evidence for that in the data.

      Based on your next comment we reanalysed the kernels of C2 and C3. This resulted in a significant difference in peak timing between C2 and C3. 

      (6) When presenting kernels as in Figure 3d and Figure 4b, extend the time axis to positive times until the kernel goes to zero. This "prediction of future stimuli" allows the reader to see the degree of correlation within the stimulus, which affects how one interprets the shape of the kernel. Also, plotting the entire peak gives a better assessment of whether there are any shape differences between conditions. An alternative is to compute the kernel via deconvolution, which gets closer to the actual causal kernel, but that procedure tends to highlight high-frequency noise in the measurement.

      We replotted the kernels in Figure 3d and 4b to show positive times. The kernels of C2 and C3 stayed at a positive level. Going back through the data we found a severe decrease in GCaMP signal in the first 2 seconds of the recording. We reanalyzed the kernels by ignoring the first seconds. All kernels now go back to zero. The shape of the kernels did not change but we now find a significant difference in peak timing between C2 and C3. Thank you for pointing this out.

      (7) Line 280 "simultaneously blocked C2 and C3 using Kir2.1": First use of that acronym. Please explain what the method is.

      We now explain “we simultaneously blocked C2 and C3 by overexpression of the inwardrectifying potassium channel Kir2.1”

      (8) Line 350 "temporal dynamics for C2 silencing": suggests "dynamics of silencing"; maybe better "response dynamics during C2 silencing".

      Edited as suggested

      (9) Figure 7: Explain the details of the stimulus containing two subsequent on edges. What happens between one edge and the next? Does the screen switch back to black? Or does the second edge ride on top of the final level of the first edge? This matters for interpreting the response.

      Yes, the screen turns dark between subsequent edge presentations. We added a sentence to the methods to clarify that. 

      (10) Line 402 "novel, critical components of motion computation.": This seems exaggerated. At the behavioral level, motion computation is mostly unaffected, except for some details of time resolution. Whether those matter for the fly's life is unclear.

      We deleted the word ‘critical.’

      (11) Line 413 "GABAergic inhibition required for motion detection is mediated by C2 and C3": Again, this seems exaggerated. Motion *detection* appears to work fine, but the *discrimination* of two closely successive motion stimuli is affected. The rest of the text does properly distinguish "discrimination" from "detection".

      We changed the title to say: ‘GABAergic inhibition in motion detection is mediated by C2 and C3.’

      (12) Line 489 "Whereas the role of C2 and C3 for the OFF pathway may be more generally to suppress neuronal activity,": Unclear to what this refers. The present report emphasizes that there is no effect on OFF activity (Figure 5).

      We did not see an effect of T5 responses to OFF flashes as shown in Figure 5 but we found a significant reduction of DS when silencing C2, as well as slightly overall increased responses to all directions for C2 and C3 silencing, which was significant for null directions when silencing C2. This is shown in Figure 6.

      Typos:

      (1) Line 521.

      Fixed

      (2) Line 1170: context of the citation unclear.

      Fixed

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this study, the authors employed comprehensive proteomics and transcriptomics analysis to investigate the systemic and organ-specific adaptations to IF in males. They found that shared biological signaling processes were identified across tissues, suggesting unifying mechanisms linking metabolic changes to cellular communication, which revealed both conserved and tissue-specific responses by which IF may optimize energy utilization, enhance metabolic flexibility, and promote cellular resilience.

      Strengths:

      This study detected multiple organs, including the liver, brain, and muscle, and revealed both conserved and tissue-specific responses to IF.

      We appreciate the recognition of the study’s strengths and the opportunity to clarify the points raised.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Why did the authors choose the liver, brain, and muscle, but not other organs such as the heart and kidney? The latter are proven to be the largest consumers of ketones, which is also changed in the IF treatment of this study.

      We agree that the heart and kidney are critical organs in ketone metabolism. Our selection of the liver, brain, and muscle was guided by their distinct metabolic functions and relevance to systemic energy balance, neuroplasticity, and locomotor activity, key domains influenced by intermittent fasting (IF). These tissues also offer complementary perspectives on central and peripheral adaptations to IF. Notably, we have previously examined the effects of IF on the heart (eLife 12:RP89214), and we fully acknowledge the importance of the kidney. We intend to include it in future studies to broaden the scope and deepen our understanding of IF-induced systemic responses.

      (2) The proteomics and transcriptomics analyses were only performed at 4 months. However, a strong correlation between IF and the molecular adaptations should be time point-dependent.

      We appreciate this insightful comment. The 4-month time point was selected to capture long-term adaptations to IF, beyond acute or transitional effects. While we acknowledge that molecular responses to IF are time-dependent, our goal in this study was to establish a foundational understanding of sustained systemic and tissue-specific changes. We fully agree that a longitudinal approach would provide deeper insights into the temporal dynamics of IF-induced adaptations. To address this, we are currently undertaking a comprehensive 2-year study that is specifically designed to explore these time-dependent effects in greater detail.

      (3) The context lacks a "discussion" section, which would detail the significance and weaknesses of the study.

      We appreciate this observation. The manuscript was originally structured to emphasize results and interpretation within each section, but we recognize that a dedicated discussion section would enhance clarity and contextual depth. In the revised version, we will add a comprehensive discussion section addressing broader implications, limitations, and future directions of the study.

      (4) There is no confirmation for the proteomic and transcriptomic profiling. For example, the important changes in proteomics could be further identified by a Western blot. 

      We acknowledge the importance of orthogonal validation to support high-throughput findings. While our study primarily focused on uncovering systemic patterns through proteomic and transcriptomic profiling, we agree that targeted confirmation would strengthen the conclusions. To this end, we have included immunohistochemical validation of a key protein common to all three organs— Serpin A1C. Additionally, we are planning a dedicated follow-up study to expand functional validation of several key proteins identified in this manuscript, which will be pursued as a separate project.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Fan and colleagues measure proteomics and transcriptomics in 3 organs (liver, skeletal muscle, cerebral cortex) from male C57BL/6 mice to investigate whether intermittent fasting (IF; 16h daily fasting over 4 months) produces systemic and organ-specific adaptations. 

      They find shared signaling pathways, certain metabolic changes, and organ-specific responses that suggest IF might affect energy utilization, metabolic flexibility, while promoting resilience at the cellular level.

      Strengths:

      The fact that there are 3 organs and 2 -omics approaches is a strength of this study. 

      We appreciate the reviewer’s recognition of the breadth of our study design. By integrating proteomics and transcriptomics across three metabolically distinct organs, we aimed to provide a comprehensive view of systemic and tissue-specific adaptations to IF. This multi-organ, multi-omics approach was central to uncovering both conserved and divergent biological responses.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The analytical approach of the data generated by the present study is not well posed, because it doesn't help to answer key questions implicit in the experimental design. Consequently, the paper, as it is for now, reads as a mere description of results and not a response to specific questions.

      We thank the reviewer for this important observation. Our initial aim was to establish a foundational atlas of molecular changes induced by IF across key organs. However, we recognize that clearer framing of the biological questions would enhance interpretability. In the revised manuscript, we will have restructured the introduction, results, and discussion to align more explicitly with specific hypotheses, particularly those related to energy metabolism, cellular resilience, and inter-organ signaling. We have also added targeted analyses and clarified how each dataset contributes to answering these questions.

      (2) The presentation of the figures, the knowledge of the literature, and the inclusion of only one sex (male) are all weaknesses.

      We appreciate this feedback and agree that these are important considerations. Regarding figure presentation, we will revise several figures for improved clarity, add more descriptive legends, and reorganize supplemental materials to better support the main findings. On the literature front, we will expand the discussion to include recent and relevant studies on IF, metabolic adaptation, and sex-specific responses. As for the use of only male mice, this was a deliberate choice to reduce hormonal variability and focus on establishing baseline molecular responses. We fully acknowledge the importance of sex as a biological variable and will soon be conducting studies in female mice to address this gap.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Fan et al utilize large omics data sets to give an overview of proteomic and gene expression changes after 4 months of intermittent fasting (IF) in liver, muscle, and brain tissue. They describe common and distinct pathways altered under IF across tissues using different analysis approaches. The main conclusions presented are the variability in responses across tissues with IF. Some common pathways were observed, but there were notable distinctions between tissues.

      Strengths:

      (1) The IF study was well conducted and ran out to 4 months, which was a nice long-term design.

      (2) The multiomics approach was solid, and additional integrative analysis was complementary to illustrate the differential pathways and interactions across tissues. 

      (3) The authors did not overstep their conclusions and imply an overreached mechanism.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for acknowledging the strengths of our study design and analytical approach. We aimed to strike a careful balance between comprehensive data generation and cautious interpretation, and we appreciate the recognition that our conclusions were appropriately framed within the scope of the data.

      Weaknesses:

      The weaknesses, which are minor, include the use of only male mice and the early start (6 weeks) of the IF treatment. See specifics in the recommendations section.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s thoughtful comments. The decision to use male mice and initiate IF at 6 weeks was based on minimizing hormonal variability and capturing early adult metabolic programming. We acknowledge that sex and developmental timing are important biological variables. To address this, we are conducting parallel studies in female mice and evaluating IF initiated at later life stages. These follow-up investigations will help determine the extent to which sex and timing influence the molecular and physiological outcomes of IF.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewing Editor Comments:

      The editor suggested addressing points regarding the young age at diet onset, use of males only, and justification for the choice of tissues analyzed without requiring new data generation.

      We agree that these are important points for context. We have now added a dedicated paragraph to the Discussion section (page 22) to explicitly acknowledge and discuss these as limitations of our study. We justify our initial experimental design choices in the context of the existing literature while acknowledging the valuable insights that studies in females and with different diet onset timings would provide.

      The editor and reviewers recommended a more integrative analysis, suggesting the use of freely available tools, and a deeper discussion to frame the work against the existing literature.

      We thank the editor for this excellent suggestion. In response to this and the detailed points from Reviewer #2, we have performed a new, integrated multi-omics analysis using Latent variable approaches (DIABLO), implemented in the mixOmics R package version 6.28.0 tool, a state-of-the-art, freely available package for integrative multi-omics analysis. This new analysis, presented in a new Figure 4 and described in the Results section (pages 20-23), identifies the key sources of variation across tissues and omics layers, directly addressing the request for a true integrative approach. Furthermore, we have thoroughly revised the Results and Discussion to more sharply frame our findings and highlight the new insights gleaned from our study.

      The editor requested clarification on whether mice were fasted at euthanasia and to rephrase the statement on page 12 regarding mitochondrial pathways.

      - We have clarified in the Methods section (page 4) that mice were euthanized at the end of their fasting period, precisely detailing the stage of the IF cycle.

      - We thank the editor for this critical correction. We have rephrased the statement on page 12 to more accurately reflect that we observed a lower abundance of proteins involved in mitochondrial oxidative pathways, and we now carefully discuss the important distinction between protein abundance and functional activity in this context.

      The editor noted that the introduction is missing key citations and should acknowledge foundational work.

      We apologize for this oversight. We have now revised the Introduction to include several key foundational citations that were previously missing, ensuring proper credit to the important work of our colleagues.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      We thank the reviewer for their exceptionally detailed and helpful technical suggestions, which have greatly improved the analytical rigor of our manuscript.

      (1) & (4) 3D PCA and Integrated Multi-Omics Analysis:

      We agree with the reviewer that a more sophisticated integrative analysis was needed. As detailed in our response to the editor, we have replaced the original side-by-side analysis with a proper integrated multi-omics analysis using Latent variable approaches (DIABLO), implemented in the mixOmics R package version 6.28.0 tool. This new analysis simultaneously models the proteomic and transcriptomic data from all three organs, identifying shared and tissue-specific sources of variation. This directly and more powerfully validates our claim of "conserved and tissue-specific responses." The results of this analysis are now central to our revised Results section and Figure 4 and supplementary figures (PCA analysis). 

      (2) Concordance/Discordance Analysis:

      This is an excellent point. We have now performed a comprehensive analysis of transcript-protein concordance for the differentially expressed molecules in each tissue. A new figure 4 summarizes these findings, and we discuss the biological implications of both concordant and discordant pairs in the Results section.

      (3) Organ-Specific Functional Remodeling:

      We have taken this advice to heart. The new analysis inherently addresses whether the functional remodeling is shared or tissue-specific. 

      (5) Missing Citations:

      We have thoroughly reviewed the literature and added key citations throughout the manuscript, particularly in the Introduction and Discussion, to properly situate our work within the field.

      (6) Starting Results with Supplementary Data:

      As the study design, including the timing of experimental interventions and blood and tissue collections, is summarized in the supplementary figures, the Results and Discussion section begins with those figures. However, we have now renamed the figures according to the eLife style, in which supplementary figures are linked to the main figures. This ensures a more logical and coherent flow.

      (7) Figure Presentation and Explanation:

      We have completely revised all figures to improve their clarity, consistency, and professional appearance. We have also carefully gone through the manuscript to ensure that every panel in every figure is explicitly mentioned and explained in the main text.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      We thank the reviewer for their important comments regarding the model system.

      (1) Sex Differences and Limitations:

      We fully agree that studying sex differences is a critical and profound aspect of dietary interventions. As noted in our response to the editor, we have added a paragraph to the Discussion to explicitly acknowledge this as a key limitation of our current study. We discuss the existing evidence for sex-specific responses to IF and state that this is an essential direction for future research.

      (2) Early Diet Onset and Developmental Programs:

      This is a valuable point. We have added text to the Discussion acknowledging that starting IF at 6 weeks of age could potentially interact with developmental programs. We discuss this as a consideration for interpreting our data and for the design of future studies.

      We believe that our revised manuscript is substantially stronger as a result of addressing these comments. We are grateful for the opportunity to improve our work and hope that you and the reviewers find these responses and revisions satisfactory.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      eLife Assessment

      This report provides useful evidence that EABR mRNA is at least as effective as standard S mRNA vaccines for the SARS-CoV-2 booster vaccine. Although the methodology and the experimental approaches are solid, the inconsistent statistical significance throughout the study presents limitations in interpreting the results. Also, the absence of results showing possible mechanisms underlying the lack of benefit with EABR in the pre-immune makes the findings mostly observational.

      Thank you for your assessment of our study. Respectfully, we do not agree that our study shows a lack of benefit of using the EABR approach. For the monovalent boosters, the S-EABR mRNA booster improved neutralizing antibody titers by 3.4-fold against BA.1 (p = 0.03; Fig. S5) and 4.8-fold against BA.5 (failed to reach statistical significance; Fig. 3B) compared to the regular S mRNA booster, which is consistent with the findings from our prior study in naïve mice. In addition, the bivalent S-EABR booster consistently elicited the highest neutralizing titers against all tested variants, including significantly higher titers against BA.5 and BQ.1.1 than the monovalent S booster. The bivalent S-EABR booster also induced detectable neutralization activity in a larger number of mice than all other boosters.

      Consistent with this analysis, please note that reviewers 1 and 2 commented that “the EABR booster increased the breadth and magnitude of the antibody response, but the effects were modest and often not statistically significant” (reviewer 1) and “the authors found that across both monovalent and bivalent designs, the EABR antigens had improved antibody titers than conventional antigens, although they observed dampened titers against Omicron variants, likely due to immune imprinting” (reviewer 2).

      We agree with the reviewers’ assessment that the EABR booster-mediated improvements were mostly modest, in particular against the BQ.1.1 and XBB.1 strains. We also acknowledge that the improvements in titers did not reach statistical significance in many cases, which we believe could have been addressed by adding more animals to our cohorts. Unfortunately, that would have been prohibitively expensive and time-consuming given that we already included 10 mice per group, which is standard practice in the vaccine field.

      Finally, we also wish to point out that we did include experiments that addressed potential mechanistic differences between booster groups. For example, we conducted deep mutational scanning studies to determine polyclonal antibody epitope mapping profiles, showing that bivalent S-EABR boosters induced more balanced targeting of multiple RBD epitopes, which likely contributed to the observed improvements in neutralization. Our work also included cryo-EM studies demonstrating that bivalent S mRNA boosters promote heterotrimer formation, which could potentially drive preferential stimulation of cross-reactive B cells via intra-spike crosslinking. This represents a potential mechanism explaining how bivalent boosters outperformed monovalent boosters in our and many prior studies, which warrants further investigation. Finally, we also performed serum depletion assays, showing that the BA.5 neutralizing activity elicited by the bivalent Wu1/BA.5 S and S-EABR mRNA boosters was primarily driven by cross-neutralizing Abs induced by the primary vaccination series.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study investigated the immunogenicity of a novel bivalent EABR mRNA vaccine for SARS-CoV-2 that expresses enveloped virus-like particles in pre-immune mice as a model for boosting the population that is already pre-immune to SARS-CoV-2. The study builds on promising data showing a monovalent EABR mRNA vaccine induced substantially higher antibody responses than a standard S mRNA vaccine in naïve mice. In pre-immune mice, the EABR booster increased the breadth and magnitude of the antibody response, but the effects were modest and often not statistically significant.

      We thank the reviewer for their accurate summary of our study. Please see our comments to the reviewer’s individual points below, as well as our responses to the editor’s assessment above.

      Strengths:

      Evaluating a novel SARS-CoV-2 vaccine that was substantially superior in naive mice in pre-immune mice as a model for its potential in the pre-immune population.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Overall, immune responses against Omicron variants were substantially lower than against the ancestral Wu-1 strain that the mice were primed with. The authors speculate this is evidence of immune imprinting, but don't have the appropriate controls (mice immunized 3 times with just the bivalent EABR vaccine) to discern this. Without this control, it's not clear if the lower immune responses to Omicron are due to immune imprinting (or original antigenic sin) or because the Omicron S immunogen is just inherently more poorly immunogenic than the S protein from the ancestral Wu-1 strain.

      The reviewer raises an important point, and we agree that including additional groups receiving three immunizations with the bivalent spike and/or spike-EABR mRNA vaccines would have improved the experimental design. However, we believe that several prior studies have already demonstrated that Omicron S immunogens are not inherently poorly immunogenic compared to the ancestral S; e.g., Scheaffer et al., Nat Med (2022); Ying et al., Cell (2022); Muik et al., Sci Immunol (2022). Based on these prior reports, we conclude that the lower neutralizing titers against Omicron variants in our study are most likely driven by immune imprinting as a result of the initial vaccination series with the ancestral S immunogen.

      (2) The authors reported a statistically significant increase in antibody responses with the bivalent EABR vaccine booster when compared to the monovalent S mRNA vaccine, but consistently failed to show significantly higher responses when compared to the bivalent S mRNA vaccine, suggesting that in pre-immune mice, the EABR vaccine has no apparent advantage over the bivalent S mRNA vaccine which is the current standard. There were, however, some trends indicating the group sizes were insufficiently powered to see a difference. This is mostly glossed over throughout the manuscript. The discussion section needs to better acknowledge these limitations of their studies and the limited benefits of the EABR strategy in pre-immune mice vs the standard bivalent mRNA vaccine.

      We acknowledge that the improvements in titers did not reach statistical significance in many cases, which we believe could have been addressed by adding more animals to our cohorts. Unfortunately, that would have been prohibitively expensive and timeconsuming given that we already included 10 mice per group, which is standard practice in the vaccine field. We added a “Limitations of the study” section at the end of the discussion to address all of these points in detail (lines 570-598 in the revised version).

      (3) The discussion would benefit from additional explanation about why they think the EABR S mRNA vaccine was substantially superior in naïve mice vs the standard S mRNA vaccine in their previously published work, but here, there is not much difference in pre-immune mice.

      As we pointed out in our response to the editor’s assessment above, the monovalent SEABR mRNA booster improved neutralizing antibody titers by 3.4-fold against BA.1 (p = 0.03; Fig. S5) and 4.8-fold against BA.5 (failed to reach statistical significance; Fig. 3B) compared to the conventional monovalent S mRNA booster, which is largely consistent with the findings from our prior study in naïve mice. Although the bivalent S-EABR mRNA booster consistently elicited higher neutralizing titers than the conventional bivalent S mRNA booster, we agree with the reviewer that these improvements were modest and not statistically significant. Overall, neutralizing activity against later Omicron variants, such as BQ.1.1 and XBB.1 was low. We attributed this finding to immune imprinting (see response to point (1) above) and acknowledged that the EABR approach was not able to effectively overcome this effect (see discussion section of the paper, lines 537-558; and “Limitations of the study” section, lines 570-598 in the revised version).

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, Fan, Cohen, and Dam et al. conducted a follow-up study to their prior work on the ESCRT- and ALIX-binding region (EABR) mRNA vaccine platform that they developed. They tested in mice whether vaccines made in this format will have improved binding/neutralization antibody capacity over conventional antigens when used as a booster. The authors tested this in both monovalent (Wu1 only) or bivalent (Wu1 + BA.5) designs. The authors found that across both monovalent and bivalent designs, the EABR antigens had improved antibody titers than conventional antigens, although they observed dampened titers against Omicron variants, likely due to immune imprinting. Deep mutational scanning experiments suggested that the improvement of the EABR format may be due to a more diversified antibody response. Finally, the authors demonstrate that co-expression of multiple spike proteins within a single cell can result in the formation of heterotrimers, which may have potential further usage as an antigen.

      We thank the reviewer for their support and for the accurate summary and evaluation of our study.

      Strengths:

      (1) The experiments are conducted well and are appropriate to address the questions at hand. Given the significant time that is needed for testing of pre-existing immunity, due to the requirement of pre-vaccinated animals, it is a strength that the authors have conducted a thorough experiment with appropriate groups.

      (2) The improvement in titers associated with EABR antigens bodes well for its potential use as a vaccine platform.

      Weaknesses:

      As noted above, this type of study requires quite a bit of initial time, so the authors cannot be blamed for this, but unfortunately, the vaccine designs that were tested are quite outdated. BA.5 has long been replaced by other variants, and importantly, bivalent vaccines are no longer used. Testing of contemporaneous strains as well as monovalent variant vaccines would be desirable to support the study.

      We thank the reviewer for bringing up this important point. We agree that the variants used for this study are now outdated, and it would have been informative to evaluate conventional and EABR boosters against contemporaneous strains. However, as the reviewer correctly pointed out, this type of study requires a substantial amount of time to conduct and will therefore will likely always be outdated by the time the data are analyzed and prepared for publication. To accurately assess immune responses against recent or current strains in mice, multiple boosters would have been needed to mimic the pre-existing immune context in the human population in 2025. Assuming intervals of 6-7 months between boosters (as used in this study to mimic booster intervals in the human population as closely as possible), this type of study would have been challenging to conduct, especially given the limited lifespan of mice. Thus, we performed this proof-of-concept study using outdated variants to assess the potential of EABR-modified boosters. We greatly appreciate the reviewer’s understanding and acknowledge this limitation of our study, which is highlighted in the added “Limitations of the study” section in the revised version of the manuscript (lines 570-598).

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) The acronym RBD in the title should be spelled out.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this point. We made this change in the revised version of the paper.

      (2) Lines 167-168 describe no differences between the cohorts at day 244. It should also be stated that for all timepoints, there are no significant differences.

      We modified the revised manuscript according to the reviewer’s suggestion (line 170).

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Given the focus on developing broad vaccines for future coronavirus outbreaks, it would be particularly informative to test whether the EABR antigens elicit broadened/heightened responses against other (beta)coronaviruses. If enough serum is left, it would seem straightforward to conduct neutralization assays against non-SARSCoV-2 coronaviruses.

      We thank the reviewer for this valid suggestion. Unfortunately, the extensive analysis of the serum samples, including spike and RBD ELISAs and neutralization assays against multiple variants, deep mutational scanning, and depletion assays, used up the serum samples for most mice. We agree that it would be interesting to investigate whether bivalent EABR boosters elicit pan-sarbecovirus responses in future studies.

      (2) In the bar plots for antibody titer changes, shown as log10 fold change, it is quite hard to interpret the difference between bars (e.g., what is the fold change difference between each bar in the same time point?). A table of mean {plus minus} SD values would be helpful.

      That’s a great suggestion. We added a table (Table S1) presenting all the geometric mean neutralization titers for all timepoints and variants in the revised version of the manuscript.

      (3) The development of heterotrimers as potential antigens is very interesting, but it seems out of place in the current manuscript. This should likely be in a separate, standalone manuscript.

      We thank the reviewer for commenting on the heterotrimer part of our manuscript. The presented work was not intended to advance the development of heterotrimers as potential antigens. Instead, our findings demonstrate that bivalent spike mRNA vaccines readily generate heterotrimers, which could promote intra-spike crosslinking and potentially impact antibody epitope targeting profiles as suggested by the deep mutational scanning data for the bivalent S-EABR mRNA booster (Fig. 4; Fig. S7-8). We think this is an important consideration that warrants further investigation with regards to the development of future bivalent or multivalent vaccines.

      (4) As a minor note, the sequences of the variants used or accession numbers should be provided in the Methods, since different groups have used different mutations for variants.

      We added the accession numbers for the vaccine strains used in this study (lines 604605).

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study delineates a highly specific role for the pPVT in unconditioned defensive responses. The authors use a novel, combined SEFL and SEFR paradigm to test both conditioned and unconditioned responses in the same animal. Next, a c-fos mapping experiment showed enhanced PVT activity in the stress group when exposed to the novel tone. No other regions showed differences. Fiber photometry measurements in pPVT showed enhancement in response to the novel tone in the stressed but not nonstressed groups. Importantly, there were also no effects when calcium measurements were taken during conditioning. Using DREADDS to bidirectionally manipulate global pPVT activity, inhibition of the PVT reduced tone freezing in stressed mice while stimulation increased tone freezing in non-stressed mice.

      Strengths:

      A major strength of this research is the use of a multi-dimensional behavioral assay that delineates behavior related to both learned and non-learned defensive responses. The research also incorporates high-resolution approaches to measure neuronal activity and provide causal evidence for a role for PVT in a very narrow band of defensive behavior. The data are compelling, and the manuscript is well-written overall.

      Weaknesses:

      Figure 1 shows a small, but looks to be, statistically significant, increase in freezing in response to the novel tone in the no-stress group relative to baseline freezing. This observation was also noticed in Figures 2 and 7. The tone presented is relatively high frequency (9 kHz) and high dB (90), making it a high-intensity stimulus. Is it possible that this stimulus is acting as an unconditioned stimulus?

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful comment. In our view, the freezing behavior elicited by the tone reflects an unconditioned response; accordingly, the tone functions as an unconditioned stimulus. Indeed, in our data we found a modest increase in freezing in the no-stress group during the tone presentation relative to baseline (Figures 1, 2, and 7). This effect, however, was considerably smaller in magnitude than the robust freezing observed in stressed mice. We conclude that prior footshock stress enhances the unconditioned tone response.

      In addition, in the final experiment, the tone intensity was increased to 115 dB, and the freezing % in the non-stressed group was nearly identical (~20\%) to the non-stressed groups in Figures 1-2 and Figure 7. It seems this manipulation was meant as a startle assay (Pantoni et al., 2020).

      We appreciate the opportunity to clarify this aspect of the model. In Figure 7, the rationale for selecting a tone amplitude to 115 dB was not to conduct a startle assay. Instead, we sought to determine whether chemogenetic inhibition of the pPVT influenced tone-elicited unconditioned fear in stress naïve mice. Given our prior experiments demonstrating that a 90 dB tone elicits relatively low levels of freezing in non-stressed groups, we increased the tone amplitude to 115 dB in an attempt to elicit a more robust freezing response that would be sufficient to detect meaningful group differences (i.e., prevent a floor effect). As noted by the reviewer, the 115 dB tone yielded moderate levels of freezing behavior. Although freezing levels were not very high, we believe they were sufficient to avoid a floor effect. There was no effect pPVT inhibition in this version of the task, which suggests that pPVT is preferentially engaged after stress. Future studies that identify tone parameters capable of eliciting high levels of freezing will be necessary to further strengthen this finding.

      Because the auditory perception of mice is better at high frequencies (best at ~16 kHz), would the effect seen be evident at a lower dB (50-55) at 9 kHz? If the tone was indeed perceived as “neutral,” there should be no freezing in response to the tone. This complicates the interpretation of the results somewhat because while the authors do admit the stimulus is loud, would a less loud stimulus result in the same effect? Could the interaction observed in this set of studies require not a novel tone, but rather a highintensity tone that elicits an unconditioned response?

      Within our framework, it is important to emphasize that tone intensity (amplitude and frequency), rather than the perceived novelty of the stimulus, is the primary determinant of unconditioned freezing behavior. Moreover, numerous studies have demonstrated that auditory stimuli have the capacity to elicit unconditioned fear responses, as in the case of pseudoconditioning. Accordingly, we agree with the reviewer that decreasing the tone amplitude from 90 dB to 50 dB would diminish the unconditioned freezing response. For example, Kamprath and Wotjak (2004) demonstrated that stress-naïve mice exposed to a 95 dB tone exhibited significantly greater levels of freezing compared to those exposed to an 80 dB tone. This graded effect of tone amplitude on unconditioned freezing was also observed in mice previously exposed to footshock stress. Notably, the authors also reported a plateau effect, such that increases in tone amplitude beyond 95 dB did not further elevate freezing levels. As it relates to our findings, this plateau effect may explain the rather modest changes in freezing behavior that we observed between the 90 dB and 115 dB tone.

      Along these same lines, it appears there may be an elevation in c-fos in the PVT in the non-stress tone test group versus the no-stress home cage control, and overall it appears that tone increases c-fos relative to homecage. Could PVT be sensitive to the tone outside of stress? Would there be the same results with a less intense stimulus?

      Indeed, as the reviewer noted, we observed an increase in PVT c-Fos expression in non-stressed animals exposed to the SEFR tone test relative to homecage controls. The finding is consistent with previous reports demonstrating that PVT neurons are robustly activated by salient stimuli and regulate properties of arousal (Penzo and Gau, 2022). Moreover, the PVT has been shown to exhibit neuronal activity responses that are scaled to stimulus intensity. For example, PVT neurons display increased firing rates in response to a tail shock compared to an air puff (Zhu, 2018). Thus, it is conceivable that a less intense stimuli would evoke a diminished level of c-Fos expression.

      I would also be curious to know what mice in the non-stressed group were doing upon presentation of the tone besides freezing. Were any startle or orienting responses noticed?

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important question. Regarding startle responses, we have found that our standard 90 dB, 9 kHz tone parameter elicits similar degrees of startle between stressed and non-stressed mice (data unpublished). However, Golub et al. (2009) observed effects of prior footshock stress on acoustic startle. Further investigation of behavioral responses expressed during the tone is certainly warranted.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Nishimura and colleagues present findings of a behavioral and neurobiological dissociation of associative and nonassociative components of Stress Enhanced Fear Responding (SEFR).

      Strengths:

      This is a strong paper that identifies the PVT as a critical brain region for SEFR responses using a variety of approaches, including immunohistochemistry, fiber photometry, and bidirectional chemogenetics. In addition, there is a great deal of conceptual innovation. The authors identify a dissociable behavior to distinguish the effects of PVT function (among other brain regions).

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The authors find a lack of difference between the Stress and No Stress groups in pPVT activity during SEFL conditioning with fiber photometry but an increase in freezing with Gq DREADD stimulation. How do authors reconcile this difference in activity vs function?

      The reviewer points out a curious dissociation. Fiber photometry showed no effect of prior stress on the PVT response during single-shock contextual fear conditioning; however, Gq DREADD stimulation of PVT led to increased postshock freezing during this session. We don’t have a definitive explanation for this dissociation, but we wish to emphasize two relevant points. The first is that in our experience, post-shock freezing during the one-shock contextual fear conditioning session is modest, variable, and an unreliable predictor of long-term contextual fear. Thus, we are hesitant to draw firm conclusions from these data. Second, we did not observe differences in freezing during the SEFL context test, indicating that stimulation of pPVT during conditioning is not sufficient to elicit long-term enhancement of conditioned fear (i.e., SEFL). This suggests that the acute freezing response following shock exposure is mechanistically distinct from expression of conditioned contextual fear. Clearly, further research will be needed to clarify the conditions under which PVT activity regulates / does not regulate freezing.

      (2) Because the PVT plays a role in defensive behaviors, it would be beneficial to show fiber photometry data during freezing bouts vs exclusively presented during tone a shock cue presentations.

      We appreciate the reviewer's suggestion. Unfortunately, freezing data are not available for the fiber photometry experiment because the fiber optic patch cable interfered with mouse activity. We now acknowledge this as a limitation in the paper (line #202).

      (3) Similar to the above point, were other defensive behaviors expressed as a result of footshock stress or PVT manipulations?

      In addition to freezing behavior and locomotor activity in the open field, we examined the time and distance spent in the center of the open field arena. Consistent with our previous report (Hassien, 2020), we did not observe significant group differences between stress conditions, nor did we detect differences across the various experiential manipulations. We did not examine other defensive behaviors in this study. Ongoing research in the lab is examining a broader range of defensive behaviors in this paradigm.

      (4) Tone attenuation in Figure 8 seems to be largely a result of minimal freezing to a 115-dB tone. While not a major point of the paper, a more robust fear response would be convincing.

      Although our data indicate that DREADD-mediated inhibition of the pPVT did not attenuate freezing in non-stressed mice, we agree with the reviewer’s assessment that the 115 dB tone elicited only minimal freezing. Therefore, we remain open to the possibility that higher baseline levels of freezing might reveal a significant behavioral effect. We found it challenging to identify a decibel range that reliably evokes robust freezing in non-stressed mice. Future studies could explore varying tone frequencies to achieve a stronger freezing response.

      (5) In the open field test, the authors measure total distance. It would be beneficial to also show defensive behavioral (escape, freezing, etc) bouts expressed.

      We agree this would be valuable information, and we have noted it as a future direction in the discussion.

      (6) The authors, along with others, show a behavioral and neural dissociation of footshock stress on nonassociative vs associative components of stress; however, the nonassociative components as a direct consequence of the stress seem to be necessary for enhancement of associative aspects of fear. Can authors elaborate on how these systems converge to enhance or potentiate fear?

      We appreciate the reviewer for recognizing this important point regarding the mechanistic relationship between nonassociative fear sensitization and associative fear learning that occurs following footshock stress. At present, the majority of research on this topic has been conducted using the SEFL paradigm.

      At the behavioral level, previous studies indicate that manipulations that interfere or attenuate associative fear memory of the footshock stress event fail to block nonassociative fear sensitization. For example, both SEFL and SEFR persist in animals that have successfully undergone fear extinction training in the footshock stress context (Rau et al., 2005; Hassien et al., 2020). Furthermore, reports also find that infantile or pharmacological amnesia of the footshock stress memory does not occlude the emergence of SEFL (Rau et al., 2005; Poulos et al., 2014). Taken together, associative fear memory of the footshock stress event does not appear to be necessary for fear sensitization.

      If and how the associative and nonassociative mechanisms interact is an interesting question that we are currently investigating. PVT has direct projections to the central and basolateral amygdala, regions well known to mediate conditioned fear acquisition and expression (Penzo et al., 2015). Why PVT activity does not modulate conditioned fear in our hands is intriguing. PVT is a heterogeneous structure with a variety of projections (e.g., Shima et al., 2023), and it is possible that the PVT-Amygdala projections are not hyperactive in our paradigm. As we alluded above, further research will be needed to understand why stress-induced PVT hyperactivity affects some forms of fear and not others.

      (7) In the discussion, authors should elaborate on/clarify the cell population heterogeneity of the PVT since authors later describe PVT neurons as exclusively glutamatergic.

      The reviewer is correct that additional explanation of PVT cellular heterogeneity is warranted. We now provide clarity on this point in the discussion.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript by Nishimura et al. examines the behavioural and neural mechanisms of stress-enhanced fear responding (SEFR) and stress-enhanced fear learning (SEFL). Groups of stressed (4 x shock exposure in a context) vs non-stressed (context exposure only) animals are compared for their fear of an unconditioned tone, and context, as well as their learning of new context fear associations. Shock of higher intensity led to higher levels of unlearned stress-enhanced fear expression. Immediate early gene analysis uncovered the PVT as a critical neural locus, and this was confirmed using fiber photometry, with stressed animals showing an elevated neural signal to an unconditioned tone. Using a gain and loss of function DREADDs methodology, the authors provide convincing evidence for a causal role of the PVT in SEFR.

      Strengths:

      (1) The manuscript uses critical behavioural controls (no stress vs stress) and behavioural parameters (0.25mA, 0.5mA, 1mA shock). Findings are replicated across experiments.

      (2) Dissociating the SEFR and SEFL is a critical distinction that has not been made previously. Moreover, this dissociation is essential in understanding the behavioural (and neural) processes that can go awry in fear.

      (3) Neural methods use a multifaceted approach to convincingly link the PVT to SEFR: from Fos, fiber photometry, gain and loss of function using DREADDs.

      Weaknesses:

      No weaknesses were identified by this reviewer; however, I have the following comments:

      A closer examination of the Test data across time would help determine if differences may be present early or later in the session that could otherwise be washed out when the data are averaged across time. If none are seen, then it may be worth noting this in the manuscript.

      Given the sex/gender differences in PTSD in the human population, having the male and female data points distinguished in the figures would be helpful. I assume sex was run as a variable in the statistics, and nothing came as significant. Noting this would also be of value to other readers who may wonder about the presence of sex differences in the data.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s thoughtful feedback and have addressed these points as follows: In the methods section, we clarify that pre-tone and post-tone freezing behavior was averaged because we did not detect a significant effect of time across all experiments (line #474). With regards to sex differences, we clarify in the methods section that we did not detect sex as a statistically significant variable across tests (line #443). In addition, we have revised the figures to denote male and female subjects separately.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewing Editor Comments:

      Following discussion, the reviewers and editors agreed that the strength of the evidence could be updated to compelling, provided the comments were adequately addressed.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) In the discussion around line 333, there is also data indicating a time-dependent role for PVT in conditioned fear (Quinones-Laracuente 2021; Do-Monte 2015).

      We agree with the reviewer’s assessment and have revised the discussion accordingly (line #364).

      (2) The 129S6/SvEvTac mouse exhibits impaired fear extinction but intact discrimination (Temme, 2014). Was there any rationale for using this line of mice?

      The reviewer is correct that additional explanation is warranted. We have amended the manuscript to include additional rationale for using the 129S6/SvEvTac mouse strain as well as address the findings of Temme, 2014 as they relate to our study (line #94).

      (3) Was there any reason why there were no c-fos results in the PAG and IPBM? You discuss those brain regions and their importance in the circuit in the discussion.

      In the current manuscript, we do show c-fos results for the lPAG, dlPAG, and lPBN (Figure 3). We highlight in the discussion the relevance of these regions in the fear circuit.

      (4) Take a look at Sillivan et al., 2018 for an additional reference in the introduction (around lines 61).

      We thank the reviewer for their suggestion and have included the reference in the introduction (line #63).

      (5) Can the authors show the c-fos data for aPVT and pPVT separately? The authors focus on pPVT for later manipulations, but the c-fos data is collapsed. Along these same lines, were there any corrections for multiple comparisons across the brain regions? While the subsequent experiments firmly support a role for pPVT in unlearned stressinduced fear response, a proper correction for multiple comparisons is warranted.

      We have revised Figure 3 to include c-fos expression for both the anterior and posterior PVT separately. To correct for multiple comparisons, we conducted twoway ANOVA (Brain Region X Group) with Tukey's-corrected posthoc tests detailed in methods section (line #577).

      (6) Do the authors provide rationale for why they began to focus specifically on pPVT versus aPVT?

      We agree that additional clarity is warranted. We have provided additional rationale for selecting pPVT as our primary focus in the results section (line #197).

      (7) Lines 298-337 of the discussion could be shortened. This long preamble is a summary of the results.

      We agree with the reviewer’s assessment and have revised the manuscript accordingly.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Additional analyses for fiber photometry and open field data to probe for PVT-related changes in defensive behaviors beyond freezing.

      As stated above, we agree with the reviewer that additional behavioral analyses would be valuable. Unfortunately, such measures are not available for the current experiment.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      As mentioned in the weaknesses, just checking for differences across time on the Tests, highlighting the M vs. F datapoints in the figures, and reporting if there are sex differences in any of the analyses.

      In the revised manuscript, we have included separate male and female data points for each figure. In addition, we provided clarity in the methods section reporting a lack of statistically significant sex differences across each experiment (line #443).

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      It is well established that many potivirids (viruses in the Potiviridae family), particularly potyviruses (viruses in the Potyvirus genus), recruit (selectively) either eIF4E or eIF(iso)4E, while some others can use both of them to ensure a successful infection. CBSD caused by two potyvirids, i.e., ipomoviruses CBSV and UCBSV, severely impedes cassava production in West Africa. In a previous study (PBI, 2019), Gomez and Lin (co-first authors), et al. reported that cassava encodes five eIF4E proteins, including eIF4E, eIF(iso)4E-1, eIF(iso)4E-2, nCBP-1 and nCBP-2, and CBSV VPg interacts with all of them (Co-IP data). Simultaneous CRISPR/Cas9-mediated editing of nCBp-1 and -2 in cassava significantly mitigates CBSD symptoms and incidence. In this study, Lin et al further generated all five eIF4E family single mutants as well as both eIF(iso)4E-1/-2 and nCBP-1/-2 double mutants in a farmer-preferred casava cultivar. They found that both eIF(iso)4E and nCBP double mutants show reduced symptom severity, and the latter is of better performance. Analysis of mutant sequences revealed one important point mutation, L51F of nCBP-,2 that may be essential for the interaction with VPg. The authors suggest that the introduction of the L51F mutation into all five eIF4E family proteins may lead to strong resistance. Overall I believe this is an important study enriching knowledge about eIF4E as a host factor/susceptibility factor of potyvirids and proposing new information for the development of high CBSD resistance in cassava. I suggest the following two major comments for authors to consider for improvement:

      (1) As eIF(iso)4e-1/-2 or nCBP-1/-2 double mutants show resistance, why not try to generate a quadruple mutant? I believe it is technically possible through conventional breeding.

      (2) I agree that L51F mutation may be important. But more evidence is needed to support this idea. For example, the authors may conduct a quantitative Y2H assay on the binding of VPg to each of the eIF4E (L51F) mutants. Such data may add as additional evidence to support your claim.

      We thank the reviewer for their overall assessment. Regarding investigating a quadruple mutant, we agree that this is a logical next step to investigate. A conventional breeding approach with existing mutant lines, however, is problematic for several reasons; 1) cassava does not flower where this work was conducted, and 2) cassava is subject to inbreeding depression, resulting in both low seed set and considerable heterogeneity among progeny that do arise. Editing existing double mutants is possible, but would require a significant, multi-year investment to produce embryogenic tissue from existing lines and generate the new lines. Cassava has practical limits as a non-model plant. Given these constraints, we conclude that investigating a quadruple mutant is beyond the scope of the current work.

      For investigating the HPL to HPF mutation in other cassava eIF4E-family proteins and their interaction with VPg in yeast, we have now completed this experiment and included the data in the paper. Notably we find that generating this mutant for eIF(iso)4E-2 attenuates VPg interaction without impairing eIF(iso)4E-2 accumulation, while similarly mutating nCBP-1 and eIF(iso)4E-1 results in total and reduced protein accumulation, respectively.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors generated single and double knockout mutants for the eIF4E family members eIF4E, iso4E1, iso4E2, nCBP1, and nCBP2 in cassava. While a single knockout of these eIF4E genes did not abolish viral infection, the nCBP1/nCBP2 double knockout mutant displayed the weakest symptoms and viral infection. Through yeast two-hybrid screening, the nCBP-2 L51F mutant was identified, and the mutant was unable to interact with VPg, yet the nCBP-2 L51F mutant could complement the eIF4E yeast mutant. This L51F is a potentially important editing site for eIF4E.

      Strengths:

      This study systematically generated single and double knockout mutants for the eIF4E family members and investigated their antiviral activity. It also identified a L51F site as a potentially important antiviral editing site in eIF4E, however, its antiviral genetic evidence remains to be validated.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The symptoms of the iso4E1 & iso4E2 double-knockout mutant are slightly alleviated, and those of the nCBP1 & nCBP2 double-knockout mutant are alleviated the most. If the iso4E1 & iso4E2 and nCBP1 & nCBP2 mutants are crossed to obtain quadruple-knockout mutant plants, whether the resistance of the quadruple mutant will be more excellent should be further investigated.

      (2) Although the yeast two-hybrid identified the nCBP-2 L51F mutant, there is no direct biological evidence demonstrating its antiviral function. While the 6-amino acid deletion mutant (including L51F) showed attenuated symptoms, this deletion might be sufficient to cause loss-of-function of nCBP-2. These indirect observations cannot definitively establish that the L51F mutation specifically confers antiviral activity.

      (3) Given that nCBP-2 can rescue yeast eIF4E mutants, introducing wild type and L51F nCBP2 into the Arabidopsis iso4e mutant viral infectious clones into yeast systems could clarify whether the L51F mutation (and the same mutations in eIF4E, iso4E1, iso4E2) abrogates their roles as viral susceptibility factors - critical genetic evidence currently missing.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for their constructive feedback.

      With regards to investigating a quadruple eIF4E mutant, please see our response to reviewer 1.

      The reviewer makes a salient point regarding the nCBP-2 L51F and K45_L51del mutations. Ideally, complementation of the ncbp double mutant with nCBP-2 L51F, followed by viral challenge, would address this question. However, the practical limitations, as noted in our response to reviewer 1, make this difficult within the context of this manuscript. We acknowledge that this is a limitation of our study and have been cautious in not overstating our conclusions.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      In the manuscript, the authors generated several mutant plants defective in the eIF4E family proteins and detected cassava brown streak viruses (CBSVs) infection in these mutant plants. They found that CBSVs induced significantly lower disease scores and virus accumulation in the double mutant plants. Furthermore, they identified important conserved amino acid for the interaction between eIF4E protein and the VPg of CBSVs by yeast two hybrid screening. The experiments are well designed, however, some points need to be clarified:

      (1) The authors reported that the ncbp1 ncbp2 double mutant plants were less sensitive to CBSVs infection in their previous study, and all the eIF4E family proteins interact with VPg. In order to identify the redundancy function of eIF4E family proteins, they generated mutants for all eIF4E family genes, however, these mutants are defective in different eIF4E genes, they did not generate multiple mutants (such as triple, quadruple mutants or else) except several double mutant plants, it is hard to identify the redundant function eIF4E family genes.

      (2) The authors identified some key amino acids for the interaction between eIF4E and VPg such as the L51, it is interesting to complement ncbp1 ncbp2 double mutant plants with L51F form of eIF4E and double check the infection by CBSVs.

      We thank the reviewer for their assessment and feedback.

      Regarding analysis of higher-order mutants, please see our response to Reviewer #1’s public review.

      For investigation of nCBP-2 L51F in planta, please see our response to Reviewer #2’s public review.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Since nCBP2 can complement a yeast mutant, it indicates that nCBP2 can also complement Arabidopsis. Wild-type nCBP2 should be introduced into the Arabidopsis iso4e mutant to determine whether it can complement Arabidopsis iso4e and whether the virus can re-establish the infection. The nCBP2 L51F mutant should also be introduced into the Arabidopsis iso4e mutant to see if this mutant fails to re-establish the virus infection. Similarly, eIF4E, iso4E1, iso4E2, nCBP1, etc., should be introduced into the Arabidopsis iso4e mutant to determine whether they can truly complement the virus-infected mutant Arabidopsis, while the L51F mutants cannot.

      Arabidopsis encodes multiple eIF4E proteins, an nCBP protein, and an eIF(iso)4E protein, and knocking out the eIF(iso)4e gene specifically confers resistance to TuMV. Introducing cassava nCBP-2 into arabidopsis eif(iso)4e mutants is unlikely to restore TuMV susceptibility. Because TuMV belongs to a different genus than CBSV, we used the TuMV VPg interaction with arabidopsis eIF(iso)4E to test the generality of mutating the eIF4E HPL motif to HPF potyvirid VPg-eIF4E interaction. However, since this mutation disrupts arabidopsis eIF(iso)4E’s endogenous translation initiation activity in yeast, this mutant protein is not worth pursuing further. In contrast, cassava eIF(iso)4E-2 L27F retains translation initiation activity and has reduced interaction with CBSV VPg by quantitative yeast two-hybrid. It would be interesting to see if this particular mutant protein could interact with TuMV VPg, and if not, would then be worth testing for the ability to restore TuMV susceptibility in Arabidopsis eif(iso)4e. Unfortunately, we are unable to pursue these experiments at this time.

      (2) Given that nCBP-2 can complement yeast eIF4E mutants, the authors may introduce viral infectious clones into yeast systems expressing nCBP-2 variants to determine whether nCBP-2 supports viral translation. This approach could further clarify whether the L51F mutation (and mutations in eIF4E, iso4E1, so4E2) abolishes their roles as viral susceptibility factors.

      This is an intriguing suggestion, but challenging for a few reasons. First, an infectious clone of CBSV Naliendele isolate does not exist, although we have tried to construct one, without success. There is also no guarantee such a clone could infect yeast. We are aware of yeast being used as a surrogate host for a few plant viruses, such as Tomato bushy stunt virus and Brome mosaic virus but are unaware of a similar system for any potyvirid. Developing such a system would undoubtedly require a significant investmentbeyond the scope of this manuscript.

      (3) Phenotypes of all mutant lines with and without virus inoculation in Table 1 should be presented.

      Photos of un-challenged mutants are included in supplemental figures. Representative storage root symptoms for all lines have now been included in the supplemental figures as well.

      (4) In Figure 1c, the results of viral accumulation assays should be presented for additional mutant lines beyond ncbp-1, ncbp-2, ncbp-1 nCBP-2 K45_L51del, and ncbp-1 ncbp-2, particularly eif(iso)4e-1 & eif(iso)4e-2#172 and eif(iso)4e-1 & eif(iso)4e-2#92.

      We have previously found that subtle reductions in visible disease do not always translate to clear differences in viral titer when analyzed by qPCR (Gomez et al., 2018). As such, we focused on lines with the strongest phenotypes in viral titer experiments.

      (5) Inconsistently, the ncbp-1 nCBP-2 K45_L51del line showed reduced symptoms compared to wild-type in Figures 1a and 1b, yet viral accumulation levels were comparable to wild-type in Figure 1c. The explanations for this discrepancy are required.

      Please see our response to (4).

      (6) Root phenotypic data for all mutant lines shown in Figure 1d should be presented.

      Please see our response to (3).

      (7) In Figure 2b, GST control pulldowns showed detectable proteins. This background signal requires explanation.

      It is not uncommon to see weak signal in bead or tag-only negative control pulldown and IP reactions. Importantly, we see strong enrichment of VPg relative to these controls in our experimental samples.

      (8) Contrary to the abstract's implication, Figure 5c indicates that the L51F mutation impacts yeast growth, suggesting potential pleiotropic effects of this mutant.

      We interpret the results to be that nCBP2 L51F does not fully complement the yeast eif4e mutation, rather than nCBP2 L51F impacts yeast growth.

      (9) In vivo protein-protein interaction assays (e.g., co-immunoprecipitation) should be performed to complement the in vitro GST pull-down data in Figure 6.

      We appreciate the desire for these experiments and agree that they would bolster our Y2H and pulldown data. Unfortunately, we are not able to complete these experiments at this time, so have been careful not to over interpret the data.

      (10) Since the AteIF(iso)4E L28F mutant fails to complement yeast, the authors should test whether introducing the L51F mutation into other family members (eIF4E, iso4E1, iso4E2, nCBP1) preserves their yeast complementation capacity.

      This has now been done for additional cassava eIF4E-family proteins.

      (11) Indicate molecular weight sizes in all Western blots.

      This was done. As differences in buffer formulations between gel types can affect the mobility and thus apparent molecular weight of markers, we have provided in the methods section SDS-PAGE gel chemistries and specific protein ladders used in this study. Importantly we note in our experience that certain markers, in relation to proteins of interest, can vary up to 15 kDa between gel chemistries.

      (12) Figures 4d,e are not provided in the paper. Based on the content of the paper, the description in the paper likely corresponds to Figures 5c, d.

      Thank you for catching this error, this has now been corrected.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      eLife Assessment

      This is a potentially valuable modeling study on sequence generation in the hippocampus in a variety of behavioral contexts. While the scope of the model is ambitious, its presentation is incomplete and would benefit from substantially more methodological clarity and better biological justification. The work will interest the broad community of researchers studying corticalhippocampal interactions and sequences.

      Thank you very much for your comments. We are very encouraged by your positive feedback. We have revised our manuscript to clarify our model, strengthen its biological justification, and make it more accessible to a broader audience.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript by Ito and Toyozumi proposes a new model for biologically plausible learning of context-dependent sequence generation, which aims to overcome the predefined contextual time horizon of previous proposals. The model includes two interacting models: an Amari-Hopfield network that infers context based on sensory cues, with new contexts stored whenever sensory predictions (generated by a second hippocampal module) deviate substantially from actual sensory experience, which then leads to hippocampal remapping. The hippocampal predictions themselves are context-dependent and sequential, relying on two functionally distinct neural subpopulations. On top of this state representation, a simple Rescola-Wagner-type rule is used to generate predictions for expected reward and to guide actions. A collection of different Hebbian learning rules at different synaptic subsets of this circuit (some reward-modulated, some purely associative, with occasional additional homeostatic competitive heterosynaptic plasticity) enables this circuit to learn state representations in a set of simple tasks known to elicit context-dependent effects.

      We appreciate it for carefully reading the manuscript and finding the novelty and significance in our work.

      Strengths:

      The idea of developing a circuit-level model of model-based reinforcement learning, even if only for simple scenarios, is definitely of interest to the community. The model is novel and aims to explain a range of context-dependent effects in the remapping of hippocampal activity.

      Weaknesses:

      The link to model-based RL is formally imprecise, and the circuit-level description of the process is too algorithmic (and sometimes discrepant with known properties of hippocampus responses), so the model ends up falling in between in a way that does not fully satisfy either the computational or the biological promise. Some of the problems stem from the lack of detail and biological justification in the writing, but the loose link to biology is likely not fully addressable within the scope of the current results. The attempt at linking poor functioning of the context circuit to disease is particularly tenuous.

      We thank the reviewer for the insightful comments.

      To better characterize our model, we added formal descriptions of each task setting and explicitly specified the sources of uncertainty. We revised the schematic figures in Figure 1 to more clearly illustrate our model. An important revision is that we now distinguish between stimulus prediction error (SPE)–driven remapping and reward prediction error (RPE)–facilitated remapping. SPEdriven remapping is triggered by mismatches between actual sensory stimuli and those predicted from past history and serves to update the current contextual state or to create a new one. In contrast, RPE-facilitated remapping is more likely to occur when executing an action planning sequence associated with recent negative reward prediction errors, possibly due to environmental changes, and promotes exploration of alternative planning sequences.

      “Based on the source of prediction errors, we consider two types of remapping: sensory prediction error (SPE)–driven remapping and reward prediction error (RPE)–facilitated remapping (Figure 1C). SPE-driven remapping is triggered when the mismatch between the predictive inputs from H to X and externally driven sensory inputs exceeds a threshold (see Materials and Methods), causing X to either transition to a different contextual state or form a new one (Figure 1D). RPE-facilitated remapping is more likely to be triggered when the agents execute an action plan following a hippocampal sequence marked by a no-good indicator. The no-good indicator indicates that the action plan, i.e. the hippocampal sequence, has recently been associated with negative reward prediction errors, possibly due to environmental changes (see Materials and Methods). It then facilitates the exploration of alternative hippocampal sequences (Figure 1E).”

      In addition, we added Figure 2C-E to clarify the neural representations of external stimuli and contextual states in the X module, as well as the neural representations within the H module. We also clarified the purpose of each model component and discussed plausible biological implementations to justify our modeling choices. Furthermore, we added a schematic illustration of our results related to psychiatric disorders in Figure 5B and revised the corresponding section of the manuscript to explicitly frame these results as a computational hypothesis. We also expanded the discussion to relate our findings to existing computational psychiatry models (see point-bypoint responses below).

      We believe that these revisions have improved the clarity of our model and broadened its accessibility to a wider audience.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Ito and Toyoizumi present a computational model of context-dependent action selection. They propose a "hippocampus" network that learns sequences based on which the agent chooses actions. The hippocampus network receives both stimulus and context information from an attractor network that learns new contexts based on experience. The model is consistent with a variety of experiments, both from the rodent and the human literature, such as splitter cells, lap cells, and the dependence of sequence expression on behavioral statistics. Moreover, the authors suggest that psychiatric disorders can be interpreted in terms of over-/under-representation of context information.

      We appreciate it for carefully reading the manuscript and finding the novelty and significance in our work.

      Strengths:

      This ambitious work links diverse physiological and behavioral findings into a self-organizing neural network framework. All functional aspects of the network arise from plastic synaptic connections: Sequences, contexts, and action selection. The model also nicely links ideas from reinforcement learning to neuronally interpretable mechanisms, e.g., learning a value function from hippocampal activity.

      Weaknesses:

      The presentation, particularly of the methodological aspects, needs to be majorly improved. Judgment of generality and plausibility of the results is hampered, but is essential, particularly for the conclusions related to psychiatric disorders. In its present form, it is unclear whether the claims and conclusions made are justified. Also, the lack of clarity strongly reduces the impact of the work in the larger field.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s valuable feedback. In the revised manuscript, we have improved the presentation of the methodological aspects by providing a more intuitive and general explanation of the model framework and training procedure. We also rewrote the section on psychiatric implications to more clearly explain how dysfunction in contextual inference occurs in our model. These revisions enhance both the clarity and plausibility of our conclusions.

      More specifically:

      (1) The methods section is impenetrable. The specific adaptations of the model to the individual use cases of the model, as well as the posthoc analyses of the simulations, did not become clear. Important concepts are only defined in passing and used before they are introduced. The authors may consider a more rigorous mathematical reporting style. They also may consider making the methods part self-contained and moving it in front of the results part.

      Thank you for raising the important point.

      To improve readability, we have updated Figure 1 to more clearly illustrate the main model structure and its adaptation to individual use cases. Additionally, we have moved the previous Figure 6 (now Figure S1) to an earlier point in the Results to facilitate understanding of the methodological flow. Method section is also revised to explain the algorithmic structure indicated in Figure S1. These revisions make the methods more self-contained and easier to follow.

      In the revised manuscript, we have clarified that our model is qualitatively related to the Bayesadaptive reinforcement learning framework (Guez et al., 2013) as follows.

      “In the framework of reinforcement learning, our model can be mapped onto a Bayesian-adaptive model-based architecture in which contextual state serves as the root of Monte Carlo tree search (Guez et al., 2013) in a simple, largely stable environment with noiseless and unambiguous sensory stimuli, and only occasional abrupt changes. In this setup, prediction errors arise from agent’s lack of experience or due to abrupt environmental changes. Once a context selector X infer the hidden state, the sequence composer H generates episodic sequences that correspond to trajectories in a search tree, each branch representing possible action–outcome sequences. Just as Monte Carlo tree search explores potential future paths to evaluate expected rewards, H produces hippocampal sequences that simulate future states and rewards based on its learned connectivity. In this way, X defines the context that anchors the root of the tree, while H expands the tree through replay or planning, thereby our model provides a simplified algorithmic implementation model-based reinforcement learning via tree search planning.”

      (2) The description of results in the main text remains on a very abstract level. The authors may consider showing more simulated neural activity. It remains vague how the different stimuli and contexts are represented in the network. Particularly, the simulations and related statistical analyses underlying the paradigms in Figure 4 are incompletely described.

      Thank you for pointing this out.

      In the revised manuscript, we have added explicit examples of simulated neural activity. Specifically, we added new figures in Figure 2C–E and showed representative activity patterns from both Context selector (X) and Sequence composer (H). We also clarified the distinction between activity in the stimulus domain (externally driven) and the context domain (internally inferred states)

      “Figure 2C illustrates an example of both the environmental state transition and the corresponding contextual state transition of an agent. The neural activity of X at each contextual state is shown in Figure 2D, where the environmental states … are represented in the stimulus domain and the contextual states … are represented in the context domain. … In the example transition shown in Figure 2C, the agent selected an environmental state transition from S2 to S4 in the 2nd, 5th, and 8th trials, which corresponds to a contextual state transition from X2β to X4β in the X module. However, because this transition was not rewarded, no synaptic potentiation occurred among hippocampal neurons. Subsequently, in the 11th trial, the agent attempted an environmental state transition from S2 to S5, corresponding to the transition from X2β to X5β in the contextual states.

      The agent received a reward at S5, and the corresponding hippocampal sequence was strengthened, enabling the agent to acquire the alternation task in the following trials (Figure 2E).”

      (see point-by-point responses below).

      We also added a detailed explanation of our results in Figure 4 as follows.

      “We consider a simplified environment of a probabilistic cueing paradigm (Ekman et al., 2022). In this study, two auditory contextual cues probabilistically predicted distinct visual motion sequences, and fMRI decoding was used to examine the frequency of hippocampal replay. We simplified this task as shown in Figure 4A. ”

      “... This result replicates Ekman et al. (2022), who showed that the probability of the contextual cues is reflected in the statistically significant differences in hippocampal replay probability in humans (Figure 4F).”

      “F, Our model behavior is similar to the human fMRI result of the cue-probability-dependent hippocampal replay (Ekman et al., 2022). Paired sample t-test. **P<0.01.”

      We believe that these revisions make the model description and simulation results more concrete and easier to interpret.

      (3) The literature review can be improved (laid out in the specific recommendations).

      Thank you for pointing this out. We revised the literature review to the best of our ability.

      (4) Given the large range of experimental phenomenology addressed by the manuscript, it would be helpful to add a Discussion paragraph on how much the results from mice and humans can be integrated, particularly regarding the nature of the context selection network.

      Thank you for your suggestion.

      In the revised manuscript, we added a new paragraph in the Discussion explicitly addressing how results from mice and humans can be integrated.

      “Our model is a functionally modular account of the cortical regions and hippocampus, enabling it to capture experimental findings across species. While hippocampal activity in rodents has been extensively characterized in terms of spatial coding, human hippocampal representations are more often non-spatial and episodic-like (Bellmund et al., 2018; Eichenbaum, 2017). For episodic memory to support flexible behavior, it would be beneficial to retrieve each episode in a contextdependent manner. The episodic contents may vary across species and individuals, yet the fundamental computations—estimating the current context from external stimuli and their history, and flexibly updating this estimate via prediction errors—are likely conserved. Holding context information until the contextual prediction error is detected is analogous to the belief state in model-based reinforcement learning, which is known to improve performance under partially observable conditions (POMDPs) (Kaelbling et al., 1998). Our model provides a simple algorithmic implementation of this principle.”

      (5) As a minor point, the hippocampus is pretty much treated as a premotor network. Also, a Discussion paragraph would be helpful.

      Thank you for pointing this out.

      We define action as a transition from one environmental state to another, and transition-coding hippocampal neurons are used for action-planning. Because our model does not incorporate errors in transitions (actions), the generated hippocampal sequences are perfectly correlated with the executed transitions (actions). However, we acknowledge that computations in the brain are more complex, with contributions from other regions such as the premotor network and the basal ganglia. To clarify this, we added formal representations of state transitions (action) in each task and the following sentences to the manuscript.

      “In Sequence composer, there exist two types of neurons: state-coding neurons, which represent each contextual state, and transition-coding neurons, which encode transitions to successive contextual states given the contextual state indicated by the state-coding neurons (Materials and Methods). Note that in the real brain, not only hippocampus but also the premotor cortex and the basal ganglia contribute to action planning and execution (Hikosaka et al., 2002). Here, however, we focus on how simplified planning sequences are learned and composed in a context-dependent manner.”

      “Our model posits that the Sequence Composer corresponds to computations within the hippocampus. As a biologically plausible projection, we consider CA3–CA1 circuit, where contextual inputs from regions such as the PFC and EC provide the current contextual state to CA3, enabling the recurrent CA3–CA1 architecture to generate predictions of the next contextual state without errors in action.”

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This paper develops a model to account for flexible and context-dependent behaviors, such as where the same input must generate different responses or representations depending on context. The approach is anchored in the hippocampal place cell literature. The model consists of a module X, which represents context, and a module H (hippocampus), which generates "sequences". X is a binary attractor RNN, and H appears to be a discrete binary network, which is called recurrent but seems to operate primarily in a feedforward mode. H has two types of units (those that are directly activated by context, and transition/sequence units). An input from X drives a winner-take-all activation of a single unit H_context unit, which can trigger a sequence in the H_transition units. When a new/unpredicted context arises, a new stable context in X is generated, which in turn can trigger a new sequence in H. The authors use this model to account for some experimental findings, and on a more speculative note, propose to capture key aspects of contextual processing associated with schizophrenia and autism.

      We thank the reviewer for this summary of our model.

      We would like to clarify that the hippocampal Sequence composer (H) is a recurrent network that iteratively composes the next state and the associated sensory stimuli in the sequence based on the current contextual state.

      Strengths:

      Context-dependency is an important problem. And for this reason, there are many papers that address context-dependency - some of this work is cited. To the best of my knowledge, the approach of using an attractor network to represent and detect changes in context is novel and potentially valuable.

      Weaknesses:

      The paper would be stronger, however, if it were implemented in a more biologically plausible manner - e.g., in continuous rather than discrete time. Additionally, not enough information is provided to properly evaluate the paper, and most of the time, the network is treated as a black box, and we are not shown how the computations are actually being performed.

      We thank the reviewer for suggesting an important direction for future work. The goal of this research is to develop a minimal, functionally modular neural circuit model that provides general insights into how context-dependent behavior can be realized across species, including humans. To simplify our model, we only considered discrete-time environmental states, where the exact length of the time step depends on each environment. Extending the model to a more biologically plausible, continuous-time framework is a promising direction for future work, such as using continuous-time modern Hopfield networks and synfire chains. We modified the Discussion section to clearly point out this direction.

      “... the resolution at which our model should distinguish different contextual states, including the stimulus resolution and time resolution, is hand-tuned in this work. While we used an abstract, gridlike state space with discrete time, an important direction for future work is to model its activity at finer-grained neural timescales, … In realistic, continuously changing environments, such resolutions should be adjusted autonomously. Introducing continuous and hierarchical representations with multiple levels of spatial and temporal resolution would facilitate such adjustments, potentially through mechanisms such as modern Hopfield networks (Kurotov and Hopfield, 2020) or synfire-chain–based hippocampal sequence generation (Abeles, 1982; Diesmann et al., 1999; Shimizu and Toyoizumi, 2025; Toyoizumi, 2012), but this is beyond the focus of the current study”

      Also, we would like to emphasize that our model is not treated as a black box. To improve the understandability, we have majorly revised Figures 1 and 2 to include additional details illustrating the neural activity and the internal computational mechanisms.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Major comments and suggestions for improvement:

      (1) Formal link to model based RL is unclear: a core feature of inference is the role of uncertainty in modulating computation and corresponding circuit dynamics, in particular defining expected and unexpected degree of errors; as far as I understand the degree of tolerable errors within a context is defined by the size of the basin of attraction of the context module (which is dependent on number of items and the structure of correlations across patterns) and in no obvious way affected by sensory uncertainty (unless the inputs from H serve that purpose in a more indirect way). Similarly, most experiments are deemed to have deterministic (unambiguous) maps between sensory inputs and world state (although how the agent's state relates to environmental state is more complex and not completely clear based on the existing text).

      Thank you for raising this important point. Our model bears conceptual similarities to model-based RL frameworks, for example, the optimal-inference formulation that underlies Monte Carlo Tree Search (Guez et al., 2013), as we now clarify in the revised manuscript. These similarities, however, are qualitative rather than quantitative. In particular, the error thresholds that separate expected from unexpected outcomes are manually specified in our model, but their exact values do not appreciably influence the simulation results.

      Concretely, the heuristic threshold for SPE-driven remapping (𝜃<sub>𝑟𝑒𝑚𝑎𝑝</sub>) is set to 5 bits, allowing for small miss-convergence during recall in the Amari–Hopfield model. For RPE-facilitated remapping, the threshold is set to 𝜃<sub>𝑁𝐺</sub> = 0.7, making the agent sufficiently sensitive to abrupt environmental changes and enabling it to explore some candidate contexts after RPE-facilitated remapping. This simple thresholding scheme is adequate for our largely deterministic simulation setting, where contextual switches are rare and occur abruptly in an otherwise stable and unambiguous environment.

      Importantly, our goal in this work was not to achieve Bayesian optimality. Mice and likely humans in certain settings often deviate from optimal inference. Instead, we focus on the qualitative remapping-related processes that support goal-directed planning following epistemic errors. We have clarified this scope in the revised manuscript.

      “In the framework of reinforcement learning, our model can be mapped onto a Bayesian-adaptive model-based architecture in which contextual state serves as the root of Monte Carlo tree search (Guez et al., 2013) in a simple, largely stable environment with noiseless and unambiguous sensory stimuli, and only occasional abrupt changes. In this setup, prediction errors arise from the agent’s lack of experience or due to abrupt environmental changes. … However, these conceptual similarities are qualitative rather than quantitative. The goal of this work is not to achieve Bayesian optimality, but rather to show qualitative remapping-related processes that support goal-directed planning following epistemic errors.”

      “Note that we set the remapping threshold 𝜃<sub>𝑟𝑒𝑚𝑎𝑝</sub> = 5 bits to allow for small miss-convergence during recall in the Amari–Hopfield model.”

      “Note that we set 𝜃<sub>𝑁𝐺</sub> as 0.7 to make the agents sufficiently sensitive to abrupt environmental changes and enable exploring some candidate contexts after RPE-facilitated remapping.”

      (2) Improvement: start describing each task specification in explicit model-based RL terms, then explain how the environmental specification translates into agent operations. Be explicit about what about the process is inferential, in particular, sources of uncertainty.

      Thank you for this important suggestion. Following your recommendation, we revised the manuscript to describe each task explicitly in model-based RL terms. For each task, we now identify the relevant sources of uncertainty, which arise either from imperfections in the agent’s internal model of the environment or from occasional abrupt switches in task rules. We also explain how the agent infers the hidden state from experience to construct an appropriate context representation, enabling the model to perform the task successfully.

      (3) A lot of seemingly arbitrary model choices need additional computational and biological justification; the description of the process is fundamentally an algorithmic one, which includes a lot of if-then type of operations: the dynamics of different elements of the circuit switch between "initialization to landmark/other", "error detected/not", different forms of plasticity on/off etc and it is not discussed in way how this kind of global coordination of different processes is supposed to be orchestrated biologically; e.g. as far as I understand the sequential structure in H activity is largely hardcoded rather than an emergent property of the learning+neural dynamics.

      Thank you for this important suggestion. We have made a concerted effort to clearly describe the biological context and the relevant literature motivating each of our algorithmic assumptions. Notably, as highlighted in Fig. 1F, we emphasize that the sequential structure in H activity emerges as a consequence of the agent’s exploration and learning. We also explain how the two remapping mechanisms concatenate sequence segments to support long-term planning and to predict both stimuli and rewards.

      About Fig. 1F

      “At the beginning of learning, hippocampal segments are not connected, and H yields only short sequences that generate immediate actions and short-term predictions. As learning continues, the three-factor Hebbian plasticity rule concatenates these segments, thereby creating longer sequences that reflect the task structure (Figure 1F).”

      About “initialization to landmark/other,”

      “While the history-based initialization was introduced to select contextual state based on the history input from H (episodic), the landmark-based initialization was introduced to terminate the episodes that would otherwise continue indefinitely. Biologically, the landmark-based initialization corresponds to the operation of anchoring a contextual state to salient environmental landmarks - such as an animal’s nest - that serve as clear reference points.”

      About “error detected/not,”

      “Based on the source of prediction errors, we consider two types of remapping: sensory prediction error (SPE)-driven remapping and reward prediction error (RPE)-facilitated remapping (Figure 1C). SPE-driven remapping is triggered when the mismatch between the predictive inputs from H to X and externally driven sensory inputs exceeds a threshold (see Materials and Methods), causing X to either transition to a different contextual state or form a new one (Figure 1D). RPE-facilitated remapping is more likely to be triggered when the agents execute an action plan following a hippocampal sequence marked by a no-good indicator. The no-good indicator indicates that the action plan, i.e. the hippocampal sequence, has recently been associated with negative reward prediction errors, possibly due to environmental changes (see Materials and Methods). It then facilitates the exploration of alternative hippocampal sequences (Figure 1E). ”

      About “different forms of plasticity on/off”

      “We used different learning rules for the intra-hippocampal synaptic weights depending on withinepisodic and between-episodic segments.”

      “Within-episodic connections, i.e., state-coding to transition-coding synapses, are constantly updated in a reward-independent manner … This modeling is inspired by behavioral time scale plasticity in the hippocampus (Bittner et al., 2017), in which synaptic potentiation occurs for events that are close in time regardless of reward, and such plasticity is believed to support the formation of place cells, etc..”

      “Between-episodic connections, i.e., transition-coding to state-coding synapses, are constantly updated in a reward-dependent manner … This is supported by the finding that dopaminergic neuromodulation gates LTP, enabling preferential consolidation of reward-associated experiences (Lisman and Grace, 2005; Takeuchi et al., 2016).”

      (4) Improvement: Justify individual design choices by biology whenever possible; in the absence of such justification, provide at least a computational rationale for each such model choice. Additional justification for the neural substrate of different prediction errors.

      Thank you for pointing this out. Following the advice, we have added the computational objectives behind each algorithmic component in addition to the biological motivations described above. In particular, we have completely updated Fig. 1 to help readers better understand the key remapping mechanisms in our algorithm: SPE-driven and RPE-facilitated remapping.

      About the Amari-Hopfield model

      “We employ the Amari–Hopfield model because it allows multiple contexts to be stably maintained and selected in response to stimuli and can be trained via Hebbian plasticity. We assume that similar computations are carried out in prefrontal and entorhinal cortical circuits in the brain.” “As one possible biological implementation, we consider that Context selection in X as the brainwide evoked potential during which bottom-up information may be integrated with top-down signals to select the current context (Mohanty et al., 2025). In this case, it takes several hundred milliseconds for the contextual states in X to settle (Massimini et al., 2005).”

      About the default matrix

      “This contextual state is set as a default context, ensuring that the X module assigns a unique contextual state to each environmental state. Biologically, one possible interpretation is that this default context corresponds to modality-specific innate representations in prefrontal regions (Manita et al., 2015).”

      About state-coding neurons and transition-coding neurons

      “The state-coding neurons receive input from X and represent the current contextual state, while the transition-coding neurons send output to X and predict the next contextual state after an action ... One possible biological grounding for this functional separation is that entorhinal cortex provide contextual inputs to CA3, and CA3 and CA1 generates predictions of next state through its recurrent architecture (Chen et al., 2024).”

      About the no-good indicator

      “No-good indicator is introduced to transiently suppress previously established sequences that have not been recently rewarded, without devaluing them. This no-good indicator facilitates RPEfacilitated remapping (see RPE-facilitated remapping section) that leads to exploration of different contextual states in X and sequences in H. The no-good indicator is inspired by recent findings in the ventral hippocampus, where dopamine D2-expressing neurons of the ventral subiculum selectively promote exploration under anxiogenic contexts (Godino et al., 2025).”

      (5) In particular, the temporal scale at which processes unfold with reference to behavioral time scale actions is fundamentally unclear: what determines the time scale of a sequential element? What stitches them together? What is the temporal relationship between H and X operations? At what time scale do actions happen in terms of those operating scales? How does this align with what is known about hippocampal dynamics during behavior?

      (6) Improvement: make the time scales of different aspects of the process explicit in the text, potentially with additional graphic support.

      Thank you for the questions and suggestions. In this work, we model the agent’s behavior in an abstract grid-world environment with discrete time steps, as is common in classical RL. At each time step, the agent observes a sensory stimulus, makes a plan, and executes an action based on it. The action induces a state transition in the environment. Accordingly, the model includes a single fundamental timescale: the environmental (behavioral) time step.

      The modeled brain dynamics in both X and H are similarly locked to this environmental clock. As clarified in Fig. 1F, each sequence segment corresponds to one behavioral time step. These segments are then chunked based on reward events, enabling longer-horizon planning and prediction.

      The agent’s cognitive operations at each behavioral time step are summarized in Fig. S1. Briefly, the agent infers the contextual state X from the current stimulus and its stimulus history, generates a sequential action plan H with predictions using chunked sequence segments, and then follows the plan when it is sufficiently promising. In addition, when sensory or reward prediction errors occur, the agent reorganizes the synaptic-weight parameters of the context selector and sequence composer. Once the agent becomes familiar with the environment, H typically generates an extended action sequence along with predictions of future stimuli and the resulting reward. The agent then executes this sequential plan, bypassing step-by-step context estimation by X, until a prediction error triggers remapping.

      The revised manuscript includes the following additions.

      “For simplicity, the environment is defined in discrete time, and agents move through environmental states characterized by distinct external stimuli. The model operation relies on the environmental (behavioral) time step. At each time step, the agents perform contextual state estimation by Context selector and activate a corresponding hippocampal neuron. Then, this hippocampal neuron initiates sequential activity based on hippocampal synaptic connectivity. Each hippocampal sequence represents a planned course of action and is used to predict a series of external stimuli. … The hippocampal sequence from which actions are generated is updated upon a reward. After the action execution, the agents repeat the process by selecting the current contextual state. As the agents become familiar with the environment, hippocampal sequences that enable future predictions to become longer, and contextual state estimation by Context selector becomes less frequent. The algorithmic flow chart of our model is described in Figure S1.”

      (7) As far as I understand it, the existence of splitter cells is directly inherited from the task specification, and to some extent the same can be said about the lap cells; please explain what can be understood from the model simulations that goes beyond what was put into the inputs/reward function for each experiment. Emphasize numerical results that are counterintuitive or where additional predictions about the dynamics come directly from simulating the model but would have been less obvious beforehand.

      The existence of splitter cells in our model is not inherited from the task specification. Instead, it emerges directly from the hippocampal module retaining sensory history (namely, whether the agent approached from the left or right arm), independent of reward structure or other task details. When sensory history is removed from the sequence composer (and, consequently, from the context selector), splitter-cell representations disappear.

      To develop lap-cell representations, immediate sensory history alone is not sufficient. The sequence composer must chunk episodic segments based on rewards to support sufficiently long action plans (i.e., history dependence) that span the multiple laps required by the task. The planning horizon - the length of action sequences - typically increases as animals learn a task. This progressive development of hippocampal sequences and their dependence on reward yields experimentally testable predictions. Notably, as we clarified in Fig. S2, the required sensory history length must also be learned adaptively: if it is too short, the agent cannot solve the task, whereas if it is too long, learning becomes unnecessarily slow.

      In the revised manuscript, we explicitly described the emergent process of splitter cells and lap cells as follows.

      About splitter cells

      “A second contextual state at S2, X2β, was generated through SPE-driven remapping at the second visit of S2 (second trial) due to history mismatch… In our model, the transition-coding neurons exhibit right/left turn-specific firing at S2 after learning is complete (Figure 2E, I), replicating the emergence of splitter cells.”

      About lap cells

      “the task environment changes again and the agents are rewarded for two laps, …. Either the shortest transition, ..., or the one-lap transition, …, is no longer rewarded, which triggers another RPE-facilitated remapping and exploration. During exploration, a history mismatch occurs …, and the contextual states for the second lap … are generated. Finally, the rewarded transition of contextual states and corresponding sequence… is reinforced (Figure 3B).”

      “This task can also be solved by simply preparing temporal contexts with three steps of sensory history (n=3), which is the minimal number to solve this task. (see Materials and Methods for Model-free learning). However, it takes much longer to find the correct transition for solving the 1-lap task than our model because it involves an excessive number of states (Figure S2).”

      “As the agents become familiar with the environment, hippocampal sequences that enable future predictions to become longer, and contextual state estimation by Context selector becomes less frequent.”

      (8) The partitioning of H subpopulation into current input vs predictive subpopulations seems to fundamentally deviate from known CA1 properties like theta phase processing, where the same neurons encode information about recent past, present, and future at different moments in time within a theta cycle. The existence of such populations (especially since they come with distinct plasticity mechanisms and projection patterns) seems like a strong avenue for validating the model experimentally.

      (9) Improvement: biologically justify the two subpopulations, discuss neural signatures of this distinction that could be used to identify such neurons in experiments

      We thank the reviewer for bridging our model with biological circuits.

      First, we would like to clarify that we do not claim that our H module corresponds to CA1 specifically.

      Rather, we assume that within the broader hippocampal loop (EC–DG–CA3–CA1–EC), subpopulations emerge that preferentially encode the current contextual states and the transitions to the next contextual states. This assumption reflects our hypothesis that the hippocampus implements a mechanism for predicting the next context given the current one. Importantly, this functional separation does not contradict known theta-phase coding in which the same neurons can represent past, present, and future information at different phases of the theta cycle.

      As a possible biological grounding, we particularly emphasize the CA3–CA1 projection. Recent studies have shown that CA1 representations exhibit a temporal delay relative to CA3 activity (Chen et al., 2024), suggesting a circuit-level mechanism by which predictions of upcoming contextual states may be computed based on the current context. In this framework, state-coding and transition-coding functions could be assigned to CA3 and CA1, or dynamically expressed through their interactions. Based on our model, we make testable experimental predictions. Specifically, we predict that neural representations in CA3 and CA1 should precede contextual switching in tasks such as alternation or multiple-lap tasks, and that perturbing CA3–CA1 computations would impair task performance.

      Please note, however, that our model does not characterize the sequence composer’s activity at such fine-grained neuronal timescales. Instead, we model the computation it performs in abstract time steps corresponding to the grid states (e.g., while the animal is at a corner of the maze).

      We have added these points to the Discussion to clarify the biological interpretation and to suggest potential experimental validations of the proposed subpopulation distinction as follows.

      “Our model posits that the Sequence composer corresponds to computations within the hippocampus. As a biologically plausible projection, we consider the CA3–CA1 circuit, where contextual inputs from regions such as the PFC and EC provide the current contextual state to CA3, enabling the recurrent CA3–CA1 architecture to generate predictions of the next contextual state. Consistent with this idea, the temporal lag in CA3→CA1 transmission suggests a functional gradient in which CA3 represents present-oriented information while CA1 carries more futureoriented predictions (Chen et al., 2024), and neurons in both CA3 and CA1 exhibit action-driven remapping and encode action-planning signals (Green et al., 2022). Our framework, therefore, predicts that changes in CA3→CA1 population activity precede behavioral switching in contextdependent alternation in Figure 2 or multi-lap tasks in Figure 3, and perturbation of this input will degrade the behavioral performance.”

      “While we used an abstract, grid-like state space with discrete time, an important direction for future work is to model its activity at finer-grained neural timescales, such as theta cycles (Foster and Wilson, 2007; Wikenheiser and Redish, 2015).”

      (10) The flexibility of the new solution in terms of learning contexts with variable temporal horizons seems an important feature of the model, but one poorly demonstrated in the existing numerical experiments. Could more concrete model predictions be generated by designing an experiment targeted specifically for such scenarios?

      Thank you for raising this point.

      As we showed in Figure S2, in environments with variable temporal horizons, our model performs better than model-free learning (Q-learning) that incorporates temporal context.

      To further demonstrate this point, we added a new task in Figures 3G and H, in which the 1-lap task and the 2+ lap task are alternated. Our model exhibits rapid switching between these tasks, regardless of differences in sequence length or temporal horizon. We added the following text.

      “To demonstrate the advantage of our model in a rapidly switching task that requires different history lengths, we show that an agent trained on both the 1-lap and 2-lap tasks can flexibly alternate between them in a reward-dependent manner (Figure 3G), selectively engaging hippocampal sequences of different lengths according to the current task context (Figure 3H). Together, these results illustrate how hippocampal lap-like representations emerge through learning and enable flexible context switching across tasks with distinct temporal demands.”

      In such a scenario, a subjective representation of laps in the hippocampus is the key to solving the task. As we responded to points (8) and (9), neural representations, especially in CA1, are expected to bifurcate between the 1-lap and 2-lap conditions, and this bifurcation would precede and critically govern the animal’s behavior.

      (11) I found figures confusing/uninformative, specifically in making it explicit what is external task structure and what is the agent's internal representation of it; as a result it is not clear what of the results is trivially inherited from the task specification and what is an emergent property of the model; e.g. Figure 2A described external transition specification according to world model but it is unclear to me if Figure 2B shows the ideal agent state representation across context or a graphical summary of what the agent actually learned from the sensory experience described in A; from the text. Figure 2F is supposed to describe a property of the emergent representation, but what is shown is another cartoon... etc.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s insightful comments regarding the clarity of our figures.

      To clarify the neural representation of the agent and how it links to the action, we have revised Figure 2 and the descriptions in the main text.

      First, Figure 2A schematically depicts the external stimulus as being determined solely by the task. In this task, animals must keep track of the immediately preceding state (S1 or S3) to correctly choose between S4 and S5 upon reaching S2. Without such a memory of prior states, an agent would have no basis for distinguishing which action is appropriate, and therefore cannot selectively move to S4 and S5. Therefore, any reinforcement learning model that does not incorporate at least a onestep state history cannot solve the task.

      To solve the task, S2 must be represented as two distinct contextual states depending on the previous state. Figure 2B therefore illustrates an example of internal representation that separates S2 into X2α and X2β: transitions from S1 to S2 are internally represented as X1 → X2α, whereas transitions from S3 to S2 are represented as X3 → X2β. Although the sensory inputs provided to the model correspond only to the task-defined states in Figure 2A, the combination of the sensory input with contextual states in Context selector successfully achieves this contextual representation of X2α and X2β (see Figure 2C, D). Also, the hippocampal neurons in Sequence composer indicate the next contextual states given the current contextual states, i.e., X2α→X4 and X2β→X5 (see Figure 2E). Thus, combining Context selector and Sequence composer successfully achieves the task requirement indicated in Figure 2B.

      Regarding the reviewer’s concern that Figure 2F (now Figure 2I) appeared to be another cartoon, we have revised the panel to clearly display our result. These results demonstrate that some hippocampal neurons in our model encode the transition from X2α→X4 and X2β→X5. The updated figure clarifies that our hippocampal neurons functionally work similarly to the splitter cells in Wood et al., 2000.

      (12) Improvement: use visuals and captions. Make it clear what is a cartoon, what is a model specification, and what is an actual result. Replace/complement algorithmic cartoons in Figure 1 with a description of the actual result.

      Thank you for raising this point.

      As we explained in the previous point (11), we added Figure 2D and Figure 2E for displaying the actual neural activity, and the corresponding annotations in the manuscript, e.g, X2α. Also, we revised the cartoons of our model description in Figure 1 to better describe our model structure.

      (13) Map between model and experimental results is poorly justified: in particular the nature of sensory inputs is not clearly specified, and how the experimental manipulations (e.g. MEC input disruption) map into model manipulations is not intuitive and no justification is provided for the choices beyond that the model ends up matching the experiment by some metric. Also, not clear why a tradeoff of neural resources as implemented in the model makes sense for the clinical case and how this hypothesis deviates from alternative Bayesian accounts invoking imperfections in inference (e.g. relative strength of priors vs likelihood as reported by e.g. P.Series's group, or issues with hierarchical inference more generally along R.Jardri's work).

      Thank you for raising this important point. We have revised the manuscript to clarify the mapping between model components, sensory inputs, and the experimental manipulations, and to further justify the clinical interpretation.

      About sensory inputs

      First, each environmental state in our model is represented as a binary (0/1) pattern. We have added Figure 2D to explicitly illustrate these sensory stimuli and how they are provided to the context-selection module.

      About mapping between model components and brain circuits

      Functionally, we speculate that Context selector (X) corresponds to computations carried out in the prefrontal cortex (PFC) and entorhinal cortex (EC), and Sequence composer (H) corresponds to the hippocampus. Inputs from the PFC are thought to reach the hippocampus via the EC. Therefore, suppression of MEC→hippocampus inputs in Sun et al. (2020) naturally maps onto blocking a subset of the inputs from X to H in our model.

      We clarified this correspondence in the revised manuscript and now explicitly justify why this manipulation matches the biological experiment.

      Relation to Bayesian theories

      We agree that Bayesian accounts have provided influential explanations of psychiatric symptoms by invoking imperfections in inference, such as imbalances between priors and likelihoods (e.g., work by P. Series and colleagues) or disruptions in hierarchical inference (e.g., work by Jardri and others). Our model complements these frameworks by explicitly incorporating sequential structure and context remapping. Rather than treating priors as static or fixed-weight quantities, our model allows contextual representations to be dynamically reorganized based on prediction errors over time. In the SZ-like condition, we assume that an excessively expanded context domain increases the influence of internally generated contextual predictions, causing them to override sensory inputs and resulting in maladaptive behavior with hallucination-like percepts. Importantly, this effect reflects not only stronger priors but also excessive generation and competition of contextual states, leading to unstable and non-reproducible remapping. In contrast, in the ASD-like condition, sensory-weighted context representations limit the ability to flexibly incorporate newly introduced contexts, causing the model to perseverate on an initially learned context and thereby reproduce inflexible behavior. We added a schematic illustration in Figure 5B and expanded the Discussion to clarify this point.

      “When the stimulus domain is relatively underrepresented, the reconstruction of contextual state in the Amari-Hopfield network tends to infer contextual states based on the context domain rather than the stimulus domain. Consequently, it converges to an incorrect attractor that is not assigned to the current environmental state, thereby increasing perceptual error for external stimuli (hallucination-like effects). Moreover, SPE-driven remapping and the corresponding synaptic plasticity occur more frequently. In contrast, when the stimulus domain is overrepresented, the Amari-Hopfield network rarely assigns multiple contextual states to a given environmental state, leading to an overuse of default contextual states (see Figure 5B and Materials and Methods). ”

      “Our model also provides an algorithmic-level account of psychiatric symptoms by changing the relative weighting of sensory-encoding versus context-coding neurons. This implementation is analogous to Bayesian theories linking priors to psychiatric symptoms. In SZ, hallucinations and delusions have been modeled as arising from overly strong top-down priors (Powers et al., 2016) or circular inference, which leads to erroneous belief formation (Jardri et al., 2017; Jardri and Denève, 2013). In our model, we used an underrepresented stimulus domain to increase the relative influence of internally generated context representation in context selection. Crucially, this implementation does not simply strengthen priors but induces excessive generation and competition of contextual states, leading to frequent yet non-reproducible remapping of hippocampal contextual activity and a failure of learning to converge despite repeated experience. In ASD, it has been argued that abnormally high sensory precision reduces the updating of expectations (Karvelis et al., 2018) or leads to sensory-dominant perception, which has been interpreted as weak priors (Angeletos, Chrysaitis, and Seriès, 2023; Lawson et al., 2014; Pellicano and Burr, 2012). In our framework, we used an overrepresented stimulus domain to increase the relative influence of external stimulus representations in context selection. Importantly, our model captures not only sensory-dominant processing emphasized in previous studies, but also a distinctive impairment in flexibly utilizing newly introduced contexts, reflecting a failure of context reconstruction and resulting in persistent inflexible behavior. Thus, our conjunctive modeling of sensory and context processing complements Bayesian accounts of psychiatric symptoms and provides a mechanistic explanation for the role of sensory processing in maladaptive, inflexible behavior. ”

      (14) Improvement: justify choices, explain in more detail relationships with computational psychiatry literature.

      Thank you for pointing it out. As we explained in the previous point (13), we justified our model choice in the revised version.

      Minor comments:

      (1) Typos: "algorism" (pg2), duplicate Sun reference.

      Thank you for finding the typo and the missing reference. We revised accordingly.

      (2) Unclear statements from Methods:

      • "preparing temporal context with three histories" not sure what is meant by this.

      • "... state estimation by the context-selection module becomes less frequent." (Methods/Overview): what is the mechanism?

      • "default pattern" and failure to converge: What is the biological basis for them?

      • Why is the converter function used on some occasions but not others?

      • "new contextual state is prepared": What does that mean?

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out several unclear statements in the Methods section.

      • “preparing temporal context with three histories”

      We now explicitly state the formal description of three histories in the Methods as follows.

      “the state is defined by the recent n-step transition history of task state (i.e. 𝑠<sub>𝑘</sub><sup>(𝑛)</sup> =(𝑆<sub>𝑘</sub>,𝑆<sub>𝑘−1</sub>, ⋯,𝑆<sub>𝑘−𝑛</sub>)<sup>𝑇</sup> , where 𝑠<sub>𝑘</sub><sup>(𝑛)</sup> is the temporal context state, and 𝑆<sub>𝑘</sub> is the environmental state at time 𝑘). We changed n from 0 to 3.”

      • “state estimation by the context-selection module becomes less frequent”

      In our model, context selection is performed every time the agents execute an action sequence generated by Sequence composer. As learning progresses, the Sequence composer comes to predict distant future states and executes coherent action sequences based on these predictions. When no unexpected errors are encountered during execution, context estimation is suppressed, resulting in less frequent context selection. We modified the manuscript as follows.

      “After the action execution, the agents repeat the process by selecting the current contextual state. As the agents become familiar with the environment, hippocampal sequences that enable future predictions to become longer, and contextual state estimation by Context selector becomes less frequent. The algorithmic flow chart of our model is described in Figure S1.”

      • “default pattern”

      In biological systems, it is reported that the frontal cortex shows sensory modality-specific representation without prior learning (Manita et al., 2015). We refer to these innate modalityspecific sensory representations as the default pattern. In the early stages of learning, we assume that no stable contextual representations have yet been formed in the brain, and therefore, a default pattern uniquely driven by external stimuli is used as the context representation. Even during intermediate stages of learning, the context selector may fail to converge to a specific state. In such context-uncertain environments, it has been reported that agents often rely on previously learned or habitual action choices (psychological inertia), which is evident in ASD patients.

      “This contextual state is set as a default context, ensuring that the X module assigns a unique contextual state to each environmental state. Biologically, one possible interpretation is that this default context corresponds to modality-specific innate representations in prefrontal regions (Manita et al., 2015).”

      “This default implementation is analogous to psychological inertia, particularly under uncertainty (Ip and Nei, 2025; Sautua, 2017), which has been reported to be more pronounced in ASD patients (Joyce et al., 2017).”

      • Why is the converter function used only in some cases?

      The converter function A(stim → context) was introduced to compose the default pattern (one-toone mappings between stimuli and contexts) as we described above. In other cases, the Hopfield dynamics were used to select contextual states; therefore, we did not use the converter function.

      • “new contextual state is prepared”

      Thank you for pointing this out.

      The term “prepared” was inaccurate. We revised it to “generated”.

      In the case of remapping, we assumed that X generates a new random neural activity pattern in its contextual domain and stores it as a new contextual state. We described this process as “a new contextual state is generated”.

      (3) Please explain the mapping between hippocampal sequences to actions in more detail for each task.

      • Why 9 attempts before rejection?

      • Why all the variations on Hebb?

      We appreciate the reviewer’s request for clarification. Below, we provide additional explanations point by point.

      Mapping between hippocampal sequences and actions

      In this research, we defined action as the transition from one environmental state to another environmental state. The hippocampal sequences predict the transition of environmental states; therefore, they correspond to a set of action plans from the current environmental state. In the revised manuscript, we added the formal definition of environmental states and actions in each task.

      • Why 9 attempts before rejection?

      These repetitions ensure adequate exploration of the contextual states in X and the episodic sequence in H before committing to an action. Increasing the number of attempts excessively causes the reward value function to be dominated by a single highest-scoring sequence, thereby causing excessive exploitation and narrowing behavioral variability. While the exact number 9 is not critical—the qualitative results are robust to moderate changes—we selected this value because it provides a good balance between exploration and exploitation and produces the clearest visualizations in our figures. We have clarified this in Method below.

      “We set the number of attempts before rejection to nine, providing a balance between exploration and exploitation and serving as a good compromise for visualization.”

      • Why all the variations on Hebbian learning?

      We consider three loci of plasticity in our model: the X module, the H module, and their reciprocal connections. Within the H module, synaptic connections that link episodic segments—specifically from transition-coding neurons to state-coding neurons—are assumed to follow a reward prediction error–dependent, supervised form of Hebbian learning. This choice reflects the need to selectively reinforce transitions that lead to successful outcomes. In contrast, all other synaptic updates in the model are assumed to follow reward-independent, activity-based Hebbian learning. These learning rules support the unsupervised formation and stabilization of contextual representations and action execution.

      In addition to the basic Hebbian rule, we introduced biologically motivated constraints, such as upper and lower bounds on synaptic weights and heterosynaptic depression, which weakens nonpotentiated synapses. Importantly, these mechanisms do not alter the fundamental nature of Hebbian learning but increase the stability of our model.

      (4) For Q learning: please clarify "the state is defined by the recent transition history of task state.

      As you suggested, we clarified the statement by adding the following sentences in Method. “To highlight the advantage of our model, we compared it to the Q-learning with temporal contexts, namely, the state is defined by the recent n-step transition history of task states (i.e. 𝑠<sub>𝑘</sub><sup>(𝑛)</sup> =(𝑆<sub>𝑘</sub>,𝑆<sub>𝑘−1</sub>, ⋯,𝑆<sub>𝑘−𝑛</sub>)<sup>𝑇</sup> , where 𝑠<sub>𝑘</sub><sup>(𝑛)</sup> is the temporal context state, and 𝑆<sub>𝑘</sub> is the environmental state at time 𝑘.”

      (5) What is the purpose and biological justification for the NG addition to RW?

      Thank you for raising this point. The prediction-error–based update of each sequence’s value function 𝑅 alone cannot distinguish between two fundamentally different cases:

      (a) the value of a sequence has genuinely decreased, or

      (b) the sequence remains useful, but it is just not appropriate in the current context. This distinction is essential for modeling context-dependent switching of behavioral strategies. To address this, we introduced the No-good (NG) indicator. NG allows the agent to temporarily mark certain sequences as unsuitable without altering their long-term value, thereby facilitating short-term exploration of alternative sequences. In other words, NG provides a mechanism for transiently suppressing a previously valid sequence in case of contextual changes, while preserving the underlying value learned in past experiences.

      This mechanism is consistent with several lines of biological evidence. First, extinction learning after fear conditioning does not erase the original fear memory but instead forms a new memory trace, known to be stored in the medial PFC (Milad & Quirk, 2002). This suggests that animals may switch to a different contextual representation rather than simply downgrading the value of the conditioned stimulus, supporting the idea of temporarily suppressing a sequence without modifying its intrinsic value.

      Second, recent studies in the ventral hippocampus show that dopamine D2–expressing neurons in the ventral subiculum promote exploration specifically under anxiogenic contexts (Godino et al., 2025). This finding is consistent with the short-term exploratory behavior enabled by our NG mechanism. Thus, we added the following statement to the manuscript:

      “No-good indicator is introduced to transiently suppress previously established sequences that have not been recently rewarded, without devaluing them. This no-good indicator facilitates RPEfacilitated remapping … that leads to exploration of different contextual states in X and sequences in H. The no-good indicator is inspired by recent findings in the ventral hippocampus, where dopamine D2-expressing neurons of the ventral subiculum selectively promote exploration under anxiogenic contexts (Godino et al., 2025).”

      Together, these biological findings provide a conceptual basis for modeling NG as a contextsensitive, transient modulation that encourages exploration without overwriting previously learned sequence values.

      (6) Missing details about H network size

      Thank you for pointing it out.

      We used 300 neurons for H. We indicated it as below.

      “We model the hippocampus with an N = 300 binary recurrent neural network.”

      (7) S1 figure: learning is slower even in the early, easy phases of learning when the temporal dependence should not matter; how are learning rates calibrated across models?

      Thank you for raising this point. In our model, the learning rate was fixed at 0.15, whereas the control model (now shown in Figure S2) uses a higher learning rate of 0.4, independent of temporal context.

      Regarding why learning appears slower even in the early, easy phases, when the number of temporal contexts increases, the size of the state space expands. This broadening of the state space makes it more time-consuming to identify and reinforce the appropriate state transitions. This is especially evident in easy phases because the temporal context prepared in the model is excessive to the number of temporal contexts that the task requires.

      Importantly, unlike the control model, which postulated a fixed number of temporal contexts, our model gradually increases the number of temporal contexts depending on prediction error. This adaptive mechanism allows the model to achieve fast learning during early, easy phases while still enabling more complex learning in later phases.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) "Hippocampal neurons show sequential activity...." The authors should include more classical references for hippocampal sequential activity at this point, too.

      Thank you for your suggestion. We added the citations below

      Skaggs and McNaughton, 1996; Wilson and McNaughton, 1993

      (2) "...called remapping" also here, please reference classic work (Bostock, Muller, ...)

      As suggested, we added the citations below

      Bostock et al., 1991; Muller and Kubie, 1987

      (3) "Several theoretical models..." What I miss here are models that explain remapping by inputs from the grid cell population, and/or the LEC (see Latuske 2017 for review), still widely considered the standard mechanism. Also, the models by Stachenfeld et al. 2017, Mattar and Daw 2019, and Leibold 2020 specifically address context dependence. Accordingly, "A comprehensive model that can explain the formation of context-dependent hippocampal sequences of various lengths through remapping, while relying on a biologically plausible learning process,..." somewhat overstates the novelty of the current paper.

      Thank you for pointing this out and for suggesting relevant citations. We agree with the reviewer that inputs from MEC and LEC to the hippocampus constitute a fundamental mechanism underlying remapping. However, in our view, a key open question in the remapping field is how MEC and LEC estimate the current context and convey this information to the hippocampus in a manner that supports goal-directed behavior. While previous studies have addressed remapping at the representational level and the hippocampal sequence at planning, the overall relationship between remapping, reinforcement learning, and planning has not yet been explained within a single unified model. In this work, we propose a simple and biologically plausible model that integrates an Amari–Hopfield network for context selection with hippocampal sequences, providing an account of coordination under goal-directed behavior. To more accurately position the novelty of our contribution, we have revised the manuscript as follows.

      “While previous works have explored hippocampal sequential activity for planning (Jensen et al., 2024; Mattar and Daw, 2018; Pettersen et al., 2024; Stachenfeld et al., 2017) and hippocampal remapping for contextual inference (Low et al., 2023) separately, they have yet to elucidate how these two aspects jointly enable flexible behavior. A simple biologically plausible model-based reinforcement learning model that uses the Amari-Hopfield model for context selection and hippocampal sequences of various lengths as a state-transition model for long-horizon planning, relying on remapping driven by prediction errors to form state representation, would thus provide valuable insights into the neural mechanisms underpinning context-dependent flexible behavior.”

      (4) Please properly introduce nomenclature "C2α, C2β, S2,...." S is sometimes used for stimulus, sometimes for location (state?), or even action?

      Thank you for pointing it out. We acknowledge that the annotation of Cn (e.g., C1, C2…) was not straightforward. Therefore, we changed the annotation to Xn (e.g., X1, X2, …) in order to indicate the contextual state of X.

      We define Sn (e.g., S1, S2…) as the external input given by the environment and represented in stim. domain of X, while Xn (e.g., X1, X2…) is the subjective contextual state generated by the agent and represented in the context domain of X. As a reference, we added the neural representation of X in Figure 2D and added the following text below.

      “The neural activity of X at each contextual state is shown in Figure 2D, where the environmental states (e.g., S1, S2…) are represented in the stimulus domain, and the contextual states (e.g., X1, X2α…) are represented in the context domain.”

      (5) "Our model replicates this result by blocking the synaptic transmission from most of the neurons in the context domain of X to H (Figure 3F).". Does this mean the X module is hypothesized to be in the EC?

      Thank you for the thoughtful question. In our model, the X module is intended as a functional abstraction that combines the roles of several brain regions known to contribute to contextual representation, including the prefrontal cortex (PFC) and the entorhinal cortex (EC). Although X is not necessarily meant to correspond to a single anatomical region, we consider it likely that the contextual information represented in X would reach the hippocampus (H) (CA3 and CA1) primarily through the EC. Thus, the experimental manipulation shown in Figure 3F—suppression of medial EC axon at the hippocampus—is interpreted in our framework as weakening the input from X to H.

      We added the following texts in the Discussion section.

      “We speculate that Context selector is implemented across multiple brain regions with varying degrees of resolution, including a part of the entorhinal cortex and prefrontal cortex.”

      “Our model posits that the Sequence Composer corresponds to computations within the hippocampus. As a biologically plausible projection, we consider the CA3–CA1 circuit, where contextual inputs from regions such as the PFC and EC provide the current contextual state to CA3, enabling the recurrent CA3–CA1 architecture to generate predictions of the next contextual state.”

      (6) Discussion "model-based reinforcement learning": Please detail where the model is here. In my understanding, the naive agent does not have a model (this would be model-free then?).

      Thank you for asking.

      Unlike model-free reinforcement learning, where each action is evaluated step by step, we use hippocampal sequences for multiple-step prediction and action planning. This is the “model” in our research. As you mentioned, initially, animals do not have a “model”, but Sequence composer gradually chunks the episodic segments to compose a longer sequence.

      (7) "...can change the attractor dynamics in the hippocampus (34)": What is (34)? I also would doubt that one can make such absolute statements about the human hippocampus.

      Thank you for pointing out the missing citation. We corrected it accordingly.

      Rolls E. 2021. Attractor cortical neurodynamics, schizophrenia, and depression. Transl Psychiatry 11. doi:10.1038/s41398-021-01333-7

      (8) "To the best of our knowledge, this is the first model that describes the formation of contextdependent hippocampal activity through remapping and its contribution to flexible behavior." See "Several theoretical models...".

      Thank you for pointing this out. We admit that it was an overstatement. We corrected it accordingly.

      “To the best of our knowledge, this is the first model that uses associative memory for describing the formation and switching of context-dependent hippocampal activity through remapping and its contribution to flexible behavior.”

      (9) "We speculate that the context-selection module is implemented across multiple brain regions..." How would an attractor network be implemented over "multiple brain regions"?

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important conceptual question. Context information in realistic environments is likely to have a hierarchical structure. We therefore speculate that multiple brain regions may jointly support context selection by maintaining different levels or components of this hierarchy. In particular, the prefrontal cortex (PFC), medial entorhinal cortex (MEC), and lateral entorhinal cortex (LEC) have all been implicated in representing contextual or task-state information at different levels of abstraction. These regions are known to exhibit attractor-like dynamics and to provide inputs to the hippocampus. Thus, an attractor network spanning multiple regions could arise, with different areas stabilizing distinct components of the contextual representation, depending on the timescale of memory, task demands, or sensory features.

      We used the Amari–Hopfield network as a functional abstraction to explain such multi-regional interactions underlying context representation, rather than to provide a one-to-one mapping onto a specific brain region. How region-specific attractor dynamics jointly contribute to maintaining global contextual information and enabling context switches in response to prediction errors remains an important direction for future research.

      Methods:

      (10) "... agents move through discrete environmental states characterized by distinct external stimuli.": How is this exactly implemented? What is the neural representation of these states, xi? What is the difference to a "landmark"?

      We appreciate the reviewer’s thoughtful question regarding the implementation and neural representation of environmental states. In our model, each environmental state is represented as a binary stimulus pattern provided to the stimulus-domain neurons in Context Selector. Specifically, for each state, we constructed a pattern in which half of the neurons are set to 1 and the other half to 0. We chose this design because, in the Amari–Hopfield model, memory performance is maximized when stored patterns contain approximately equal proportions of 0 and 1. For clarity, we have added an illustration of these stimulus patterns in the revised Figure 2D.

      Regarding the reviewer’s question about landmarks: in our framework, a landmark denotes an environmental state for which the contextual state is uniquely determined, regardless of the preceding transition history. For simplicity in this study, we designated the initial environmental state in each task (S0 or S1) as the landmark. Importantly, in our implementation, landmarks do not differ from other states in terms of their stimulus pattern; their special role arises solely from the task structure, not from additional sensory properties.

      In real environments, what constitutes a landmark likely varies depending on stimulus saliency and the agent’s prior experience. Determining how landmarks should be optimally defined or learned is an interesting direction for future work.

      (11) How are different contexts represented for the same stimulus xi^stim?

      We added an example of neural activity in X in Figure 2D, illustrating the distinction between the stimulus domain and the context domain. While the activity in the stimulus domain depends on the external stimulus, the contextual domain consists of uncorrelated random neural states. We exploit a key property of the Amari–Hopfield network to associate each contextual state with a given external stimulus.

      (12) "...and its stimulus domain ??stim becomes identical to ??xistim ." Does that mean every stimulus is an attractor in the context net? How can that work with only 1200 neurons? Is that realistic for real-life environments? Neuron numbers would need to increase dramatically.

      As you mentioned, we assigned each stimulus to a corresponding attractor in the Context selector (X). An Amari–Hopfield network with 1,200 neurons can store approximately 10–20 attractors, which is sufficient to solve the tasks considered in this study. We adopted the Amari–Hopfield network for its simplicity and conceptual clarity; however, in biological neural systems, it is not necessary to construct such rigid attractors for every stimulus. For example, modality-specific neural projections exist in the brain and are sometimes sufficient to form loose attractor states across different stimuli. In addition, the prefrontal cortex is known to support working memory, which may also serve as a form of contextual representation incorporating recent history. Thus, we propose that multiple brain regions cooperate to implement the Context selector.

      (13) How are WHX and WHH initialized?

      Thank you for pointing this out.

      We set the initial condition of all W to 0. We added the following text in the Method section.

      “Note that the initial synaptic weights of 𝑊<sup>𝐻𝑋</sup> and 𝑊<sup>𝑋𝐻</sup> are all 0.”

      (14) It is unclear why the hippocampus separates into state and transition neurons. Why cannot one pattern serve both purposes?

      Thank you for asking about this important point.

      The reason why we prepare two kinds of hippocampal neurons is that state-coding neurons represent the current contextual state, and transition-coding neurons predict the following contextual state under the current contextual state. These two separations enable it to predict multiple scenarios under the current contextual state and to choose a sequence most suitable in the environment.

      We rewrote the following sentences in the manuscript.

      In result section,

      “In Sequence composer, there exist two types of neurons: state-coding neurons, which represent each contextual state, and transition-coding neurons, which encode transitions to successive contextual states given the contextual state indicated by the state-coding neurons”

      In Method section,

      “The state-coding neurons receive input from 𝑋 and represent the current contextual state, while the transition-coding neurons send output to 𝑋 and predict the next contextual state after an action i.e., T(𝑋<sub>𝑘+1</sub>|𝑋<sub>𝑘</sub>,𝑎<sub>𝑘,𝑘+1</sub>).”

      (15) "the agents execute actions according to this sequence." How are the actions defined? Are they part of the state?

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. In our model, an action is defined as the transition from a given environmental state to the next environmental state. To avoid ambiguity, we have added a formal mathematical definition of actions for each task in the revised manuscript. In our framework, the transition-coding neurons in Sequence Composer (H) predict the upcoming environmental state, and thus the hippocampal sequence intrinsically contains the representation of an action. Consequently, the sequence generated before actions functions as the agent’s internal action planning process.

      (16) "Because the input source for the state-coding neuron and the transition coding neuron differ (the former is selected from ??, while the latter is selected from ??), the same hippocampal neuron could occasionally be used for both state-coding and transition-coding across different contextual states. This is evident when an excessive number of contextual states are prepared, especially in the SZ condition. This phenomenon degrades state estimation at X (eq.3)." I have no idea what you want to convey here, .... and how is state estimation related to Equation 3?

      We appreciate the reviewer’s feedback and agree that our original explanation was unclear. Our intention was to clarify why context estimation deteriorates specifically in the SZ condition.

      In our model, state-coding neurons in the hippocampus represent the current contextual state, and transition-coding neurons predict the next contextual state given the current contextual state. Under normal conditions, these two sets of neurons remain sufficiently distinct, allowing accurate prediction of the upcoming contextual state, which is conveyed to X. However, when an excessively large number of contextual states are stored in the SZ condition, representations in the hippocampus begin to overlap. As a result, some hippocampal neurons are inadvertently recruited for both state-coding and transition-coding across different contextual states. This overlap disrupts the H’s ability to accurately predict the next contextual state.

      This degraded prediction directly affects the state-estimation process in X (Eq.3), because Eq.3 relies on receiving an accurate predicted next state from H. When this signal becomes ambiguous, X may converge to an incorrect contextual state, potentially mimicking hallucination-like inference errors.

      We have rewritten the relevant passage in the manuscript to clarify this mechanism as follows.

      “When the number of contextual states increases - particularly in the SZ condition - representational overlap arises between hippocampal state-coding and transition-coding neurons.

      This overlap makes the prediction of the next contextual state by the transition-coding neurons unreliable. The degraded prediction from H, in turn, corrupts the initial condition for context selection in X (Eq. 3), leading to hallucination-like behavior.”

      (17) The figures hardly show simulated activity. Consider displaying more neuronal simulations to help the reader grasp the workings of the model.

      Thank you for your suggestion. We indicated the neural activity of X and H in Figures 2D and 2E, respectively, to show the overview of our model.

      (18) Figure 5: What is the "Hopfield count"?

      Thank you for pointing this out. The definition of the Hopfield count was ambiguous. We added an explicit explanation of “context selection” and its possible outcomes (correct association, hallucination-like, and default contexts) in Fig. S1. To clarify our claim, we replaced the countbased measure with the probability of selecting hallucination-like and default contexts during context selection. Accordingly, we removed the term “Hopfield count” and revised the caption of Figure 5 as follows.

      “The result of context selection (see Figure S1). The probability of wrong stimulus reconstruction (hallucination-like effects) is plotted in red, and the probability of default context usage due to failures in context reconstruction (see Materials and Methods) is plotted in blue.”

      (19) Figure 6: Consider moving this upfront.

      Thank you for the suggestion. We moved Fig.6 to Fig.S1 and introduced it earlier in the manuscript.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I was a bit confused about the implementation, which may not be autonomous, meaning there are numerous stages that require intervention from outside the X-H network (see Figure 6). It seems that the X network might wait to converge before providing input to H, rather than having the entire network evolve in parallel. There are also aspects to the implementation that seem rather ad hocsuch as the "no-good indicator".

      Thank you for the thoughtful comments. We would like to clarify several points regarding the implementation and its biological motivation.

      First, regarding the concern that the X–H interaction may not be fully autonomous:

      In our framework, the convergence time of the X module under external sensory input is assumed to be on the order of several hundred milliseconds, consistent with the timescale of stimulus-evoked cortical population dynamics observed in biological systems. Especially when hippocampal input is present, X does not need to explore the full attractor landscape. Instead, it quickly settles into an attractor located near the hippocampal cue, which substantially shortens the convergence time.

      Second, although our current implementation proceeds in an algorithmically sequential manner for clarity, we do not intend to imply that the brain performs these steps sequentially. Biologically, the states of X and H are expected to co-evolve and mutually constrain each other through recurrent interactions. The sequential algorithm in the model is therefore a practical choice for implementation, not a theoretical claim about strict temporal ordering in the neural system.

      Finally, the “no-good indicator” is introduced to suppress hippocampal sequences transiently and thereby accelerate switching behavior. Our no-good indicator is most consistent with the biological findings on D2-expressing neurons in the hippocampus. We added the following text below.

      About the no-good indicator

      “The no-good indicator is inspired by recent findings in the ventral hippocampus, where dopamine D2-expressing neurons of the ventral subiculum selectively promote exploration under anxiogenic contexts (Godino et al., 2025)”

      Besides the hippocampus, similar mechanisms—temporary suppression of recently visited or lowvalue attractor states—have been proposed in biological decision-making and working-memory literature, providing conceptual support for the no-good indicator in our model.

      After exposure to a new context, a new memory/context is stored in the X network. As the storage of a new memory requires synaptic plasticity, this step would presumably take a significant amount of time in an animal.

      Thank you for raising this important point. We agree that the formation of a new memory or context requires synaptic changes, and it is well established that processes such as tagging during wakefulness and consolidation during sleep take considerable time. However, once a context has been learned, switching between contexts can be achieved just by moving between attractors in the X network. This mechanism allows for rapid, context-dependent behavior without requiring new synaptic modifications each time. Our study focuses on this aspect of fast context-dependent switching rather than the initial memory formation.

      My understanding is that the Amari-Hopfield network should be evolving in continuous time and not be binary. But there were no time constants mentioned, and the equations were not provided, and it seems that the elements of X were binary units, rather than analog. This should be clarified.

      Thank you for the comment.

      Although there are models with continuous firing rates and continuous time (Ramsauer et al., 2021), the original Amari-Hopfield model uses binary neurons operating in discrete time steps. As we answered the comments (5) and (6) from Reviewer 1, we considered only a discretely timestepped environment for which the timescale is arbitrary. At each environmental state where the current contextual state is selected, it typically takes about ten iterations for the conversion of the Amari-Hopfield network.

      In the text, we added the following text.

      “For simplicity, the environment is defined in discrete time, and agents move through environmental states characterized by distinct external stimuli.”

      Figure 3 is aimed at replicating the lap cell finding of Sun et al, 2020. In panel E, a comparison is made between the data and the model. Are the cells in the model the entire population of H neurons (state and transition), or just a subset? Does the absence of the "ghosts" (the weaker off diagonal responses seen in the experimental data) imply that the network is not encoding that it is in the same location, but a different lap? Why is there not any true sequentiality (i.e., why do all H units go on at once)?

      Thank you for your insightful comments. Throughout this study, we used 300 neurons for the Sequence composer (H); however, for simplicity, we constrained the model such that only a single H neuron was active at each time point. As a result, most other neurons remained silent. Accordingly, in Fig. 3E, we display only neurons with firing activity, and silent neurons are not shown.

      As you correctly inferred, hippocampal neurons in our model encode lap identity rather than the same physical location across laps. This design choice reflects our focus on hippocampal neurons representing contextual states, rather than place-coding neurons, as only the former contributes directly to contextual behavior in our framework. As shown in Fig. 3E, hippocampal neurons exhibit clear sequential activity with “episode-like” representations corresponding to individual laps. Nevertheless, we believe that incorporating a mixture of context-coding neurons and place-coding neurons is an important direction for future work, as illustrated in Fig. S3.

      We revised the caption of Fig. 3E as follows.

      “E, The comparison of (Left) lap cells in the hippocampus in the 4-lap task (Sun et al., 2020) and (Right) our results of active neurons in the H module.”

      Typo "but also makeS predictions".

      Thank you for pointing this out. We revised it correctly.

    1. Author Response:

      We appreciate the reviewers’ thoughtful assessments and constructive feedback on our manuscript. The central goal of our study was to propose a simple and biologically inspired model-based reinforcement learning (MBRL) framework that draws on mechanisms observed in episodic memory systems. Unlike model-free approaches that require processing at each state transition, our model uses sequential activity (= transition model) to predict environmental changes in the long term by leveraging episode-like representations.

      While many prior studies have focused on optimizing task performance in MBRL, our primary aim is to explore how flexible, context-dependent behavior—reminiscent of that observed in biological systems—can be instantiated using simple, neurally plausible mechanisms. In particular, we emphasize the use of an Amari-Hopfield network for the context selection module. This network, governed by Hebbian learning, forms attractors that can correct for sensory noise and facilitate associative recall, allowing dynamic separation of prediction errors due to sensory noise versus those due to contextual mismatches. However, we acknowledge that our explanation of these mechanisms, especially in relation to sensory noise, was not sufficiently developed in the current manuscript. We plan to revise the text to clarify this limitation and to expand on the implications of these mechanisms in the context of psychiatric disorder-like behaviors, as illustrated in Figure 5. Several reviewers raised concerns about the clarity of our model. Our implementation is intentionally algorithmic rather than formal, designed to provide an accessible proof-of-concept model. We will revise the manuscript to better describe the core logic of the model—namely, the bidirectional interaction between the Hopfield network (X) and the hippocampal sequence module (H), where X sends the information on estimated current context to H, and H returns a future prediction based on the episode to X. This interaction forms a loop enabling the current context estimation and its reselection.

      The key advantage of this architecture is its ability to flexibly adjust the temporal span of episodes used for inference and control, providing a potential solution to the challenge of credit assignment over variable time scales in MBRL. Because our model forms and stores the variable length of episodes depending on the context, it can handle both short-horizon and long-horizon tasks simultaneously. Moreover, because each episode is organized by context, reselecting contexts enables rapid switching between these variable timescales. This flexibility addresses a challenge in MBRL—the assignment of credit across variable time scales—without requiring explicit optimization. To better illustrate this important feature, we plan to include additional experiments in the revised manuscript that demonstrate how context-dependent modulation of episode length enhances behavioral flexibility and task performance.

      Finally, we will address the comments on the presentation and the biological grounding of our model. To improve clarity and biological relevance, we will revise the Methods section to explicitly describe how the model is grounded in mechanisms observed in real neural systems. Also, we will clarify which parts of our figures represent computational results versus schematic illustrations and more clearly explain how each model component relates to known neural mechanisms. These revisions aim to improve both clarity and accessibility for a broad audience, while reinforcing the biological relevance of our approach.

      We thank the reviewers again for their insightful comments, which will help us substantially improve the manuscript. We look forward to submitting a revised version that more clearly conveys the contributions and implications of our work.

    1. Author response:

      We thank the reviewers for their excellent and thoughtful comments and suggestions, along with their strong support of the work. We agree with the general feedback that there is opportunity for further mechanistic dissection of the data from a variety of interesting angles. This was a fascinating project to work on because of all of the possible directions, and we attempted to highlight a diversity of compelling findings. We wish we had time to devote to answering more of the open mechanistic questions, but, given competing priorities, we are unfortunately unable to do them justice at this time. At the suggestion of a reviewer, we have made results available through MaveDB (accession numbers urn:mavedb:00001270-a and urn:mavedb:00001271-a) as a way to empower others to explore more.

    1. Author response:

      We thank the editors and reviewers for their careful reading of our manuscript and for their insightful comments. We appreciate the opportunity to clarify several aspects of the derivations and experimental design, and we will revise the manuscript accordingly. Below we provide responses to the major weaknesses raised by the reviewers.

      The derivation of the main error term misses some important steps, which complicates peer review at this stage. In particular, factorisation of the covariance into noise and the inverse of the observation covariance matrix needs a more thorough justification. The cited sources do not contain the derivation for a noise term with full covariance, which is essential for deriving this error term.

      Thank you for pointing this out. We agree that the derivation of the main error term should be presented more explicitly to facilitate peer review. In the revised manuscript, we will explicitly cite the relevant equation numbers from the references to make each step of the argument easier to follow. We will also revise the text to more clearly discuss the assumption on the noise covariance matrix.

      The pratical recommendation at the end of the paper also requires clearer guidance on how the design perturbations are constructed, and how many times and for how long the system is stimulated in each iteration of the experiment.

      Thank you for this helpful suggestion. We agree that the practical implementation of the experimental design should be explained more clearly. In the revised manuscript, we will provide a more explicit description of how the input perturbations are constructed in each iteration. To more clearly explain how many times and for how long the system is stimulated, we will clarify the stopping criterion used in the iterative procedure and the time length of the external inputs. As shown in Eq. (8), the estimation error scales approximately as 1/T, so longer measurements improve accuracy. For clearer guidance, we will add additional explanations on the relation between the stimulation time and estimation accuracy, as well as on the role of iterative input design.

      Finally, there is no analysis of model mis-specification. In particular, the true dynamics are unlikely to be linear; the noise is unlikely to be either Gaussian or uncorrelated across time; and the B matrix is unlikely to be known perfectly. We're not suggesting that the authors consider a more complex model, but it's important to know how sensitive their method is to model mismatch. If nothing can be done analytically, then simulations would at least provide some kind of guide.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. We agree that it is important to understand how sensitive the proposed method is to model mismatch. While our current theoretical analysis assumes linear dynamics with Gaussian noise for analytical tractability, real systems may deviate from these assumptions in several ways, including nonlinear dynamics, temporally correlated noise, or imperfect knowledge of the input matrix B. To address this concern, we will add simulation experiments to examine the robustness of our method under several types of model misspecification. These simulations will provide practical guidance on how deviations from the assumed model affect estimation performance. We will include these results and discuss their implications in the revised manuscript.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      General Response

      We are grateful for the constructive comments from reviewers and the editor.

      The main point converged on a potential alternative interpretation that top-down modulation to the visual cortex may be contributing to the NC connectivity we observed. For this revision, we address that point with new analysis in Fig. S8 and Fig. 6. These results indicate that top-down modulation does not account for the observed NC connectivity.

      We performed the following analyses.

      (1) In a subset of experiments, we recorded pupil dynamics while the mice were engaged in a passive visual stimulation experiment (Fig. S8A). We found that pupil dynamics, which indicate the arousal state of the animal, explained only 3% of the variance of neural dynamics. This is significantly smaller than the contribution of sensory stimuli and the activity of the surrounding neuronal population (Fig. S8B). In particular, the visual stimulus itself typically accounted for 10-fold more variance than pupil dynamics (Fig. S8C). This suggests that the population neural activity is highly stimulus-driven and that a large portion of functional connectivity is independent of top-down modulation. In addition, after subtracting the neural activity from the pupil-modulated portion, the cross-stimulus stability of the NC was preserved (Fig. S8D).

      We note that the contribution from pupil dynamics to neural activity in this study is smaller than what was observed in an earlier study (Stringer et al. 2019 Science). That can be because mice were in quiet wakefulness in the current study, while mice were in spontaneous locomotion in the earlier study. We discuss this discrepancy in the main text, in the subsection “Functional connectivity is not explained by the arousal state”.

      (2) We performed network simulations with top-down input (Fig. 6F-H). With multidimensional top-down input comparable to the experimental data, recurrent connections within the network are necessary to generate cross-stimulus stable NC connectivity (Fig. 6G). It took increasing the contribution from the top-down input (i.e., to more than 1/3 of the contribution from the stimulus), before the cross-stimulus NC connectivity can be generated by the top-down modulation (Fig. 6H). Thus, this analysis provides further evidence that top-down modulation was not playing a major role in the NC connectivity we observed.

      These new results support our original conclusion that network connectivity is the principal mechanism underlying the stability of functional networks.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

      Using multi-region two-photon calcium imaging, the manuscript meticulously explores the structure of noise correlations (NCs) across the mouse visual cortex and uses this information to make inferences about the organization of communication channels between primary visual cortex (V1) and higher visual areas (HVAs). Using visual responses to grating stimuli, the manuscript identifies 6 tuning groups of visual cortex neurons and finds that NCs are highest among neurons belonging to the same tuning group whether or not they are found in the same cortical area. The NCs depend on the similarity of tuning of the neurons (their signal correlations) but are preserved across different stimulus sets - noise correlations recorded using drifting gratings are highly correlated with those measured using naturalistic videos. Based on these findings, the manuscript concludes that populations of neurons with high NCs constitute discrete communication channels that convey visual signals within and across cortical areas.

      Experiments and analyses are conducted to a high standard and the robustness of noise correlation measurements is carefully validated. However, the interpretation of noise correlation measurements as a proxy from network connectivity is fraught with challenges. While the data clearly indicates the existence of distributed functional ensembles, the notion of communication channels implies the existence of direct anatomical connections between them, which noise correlations cannot measure.

      The traditional view of noise correlations is that they reflect direct connectivity or shared inputs between neurons. While it is valid in a broad sense, noise correlations may reflect shared top-down input as well as local or feedforward connectivity. This is particularly important since mouse cortical neurons are strongly modulated by spontaneous behavior (e.g. Stringer et al, Science, 2019). Therefore, noise correlation between a pair of neurons may reflect whether they are similarly modulated by behavioral state and overt spontaneous behaviors. Consequently, noise correlation alone cannot determine whether neurons belong to discrete communication channels.

      Behavioral modulation can influence the gain of sensory-evoked responses (Niell and Stryker, Neuron, 2010). This can explain why signal correlation is one of the best predictors of noise correlations as reported in the manuscript. A pair of neurons that are similarly gain-modulated by spontaneous behavior (e.g. both active during whisking or locomotion) will have higher noise correlations if they respond to similar stimuli. Top-down modulation by the behavioral state is also consistent with the stability of noise correlations across stimuli. Therefore, it is important to determine to what extent noise correlations can be explained by shared behavioral modulation.

      We thank the reviewer for the constructive and positive feedback on our study.

      The reviewer acknowledged the quality of our experiments and analysis and stated a concern that the noise correlation can be explained by top-down modulation. We have addressed this concern carefully in the revision, please see the General Response above.

      Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      This groundbreaking study characterizes the structure of activity correlations over a millimeter scale in the mouse cortex with the goal of identifying visual channels, specialized conduits of visual information that show preferential connectivity. Examining the statistical structure of the visual activity of L2/3 neurons, the study finds pairs of neurons located near each other or across distances of hundreds of micrometers with significantly correlated activity in response to visual stimulation. These highly correlated pairs have closely related visual tuning sharing orientation and/or spatial and/or temporal preference as would be expected from dedicated visual channels with specific connectivity.

      Strengths:

      The study presents best-in-class mesoscopic-scale 2-photon recordings from neuronal populations in pairs of visual areas (V1-LM, V1-PM, V1-AL, V1-LI). The study employs diverse visual stimuli that capture some of the specialization and heterogeneity of neuronal tuning in mouse visual areas. The rigorous data quantification takes into consideration functional cell groups as well as other variables that influence trial-to-trial correlations (similarity of tuning, neuronal distance, receptive field overlap). The paper convincingly demonstrates the robustness of the clustering analysis and of the activity correlation measurements. The calcium imaging results convincingly show that noise correlations are correlated across visual stimuli and are strongest within cell classes which could reflect distributed visual channels. A simple simulation is provided that suggests that recurrent connectivity is required for the stimulus invariance of the results. The paper is well-written and conceptually clear. The figures are beautiful and clear. The arguments are well laid out and the claims appear in large part supported by the data and analysis results (but see weaknesses).

      Weaknesses:

      An inherent limitation of the approach is that it cannot reveal which anatomical connectivity patterns are responsible for observed network structure. The modeling results presented, however, suggest interestingly that a simple feedforward architecture may not account for fundamental characteristics of the data. A limitation of the study is the lack of a behavioral task. The paper shows nicely that the correlation structure generalizes across visual stimuli. However, the correlation structure could differ widely when animals are actively responding to visual stimuli. I do think that, because of the complexity involved, a characterization of correlations during a visual task is beyond the scope of the current study.

      An important question that does not seem addressed (but it is addressed indirectly, I could be mistaken) is the extent to which it is possible to obtain reliable measurements of noise correlation from cell pairs that have widely distinct tuning. L2/3 activity in the visual cortex is quite sparse. The cell groups laid out in Figure S2 have very sharp tuning. Cells whose tuning does not overlap may not yield significant trial-to-trial correlations because they do not show significant responses to the same set of stimuli, if at all any time. Could this bias the noise correlation measurements or explain some of the dependence of the observed noise correlations on signal correlations/similarity of tuning? Could the variable overlap in the responses to visual responses explain the dependence of correlations on cell classes and groups?

      With electrophysiology, this issue is less of a problem because many if not most neurons will show some activity in response to suboptimal stimuli. For the present study which uses calcium imaging together with deconvolution, some of the activity may not be visible to the experimenters. The correlation measure is shown to be robust to changes in firing rates due to missing spikes. However, the degree of overlap of responses between cell pairs and their consequences for measures of noise correlations are not explored.

      Beyond that comment, the remaining issues are relatively minor issues related to manuscript text, figures, and statistical analyses. There are typos left in the manuscript. Some of the methodological details and results of statistical testing also seem to be missing. Some of the visuals and analyses chosen to examine the data (e.g., box plots) may not be the most effective in highlighting differences across groups. If addressed, this would make a very strong paper.

      We thank the reviewer for acknowledging the contributions of our study.

      We agree with the reviewer that future studies on behaviorally engaged animals are necessary. Although we also agree with the reviewer that behavior studies are out the scope of the current manuscript, we have included additional analysis and discussion on whether and how top-down input would affect the NC connectivity in the revision. Please see the General Response above.

      Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      Yu et al harness the capabilities of mesoscopic 2P imaging to record simultaneously from populations of neurons in several visual cortical areas and measure their correlated variability. They first divide neurons into 65 classes depending on their tuning to moving gratings. They found the pairs of neurons of the same tuning class show higher noise correlations (NCs) both within and across cortical areas. Based on these observations and a model they conclude that visual information is broadcast across areas through multiple, discrete channels with little mixing across them.

      NCs can reflect indirect or direct connectivity, or shared afferents between pairs of neurons, potentially providing insight on network organization. While NCs have been comprehensively studied in neuron pairs of the same area, the structure of these correlations across areas is much less known. Thus, the manuscripts present novel insights into the correlation structure of visual responses across multiple areas.

      Strengths:

      The study uses state-of-the art mesoscopic two-photon imaging.

      The measurements of shared variability across multiple areas are novel.

      The results are mostly well presented and many thorough controls for some metrics are included.

      Weaknesses:

      I have concerns that the observed large intra-class/group NCs might not reflect connectivity but shared behaviorally driven multiplicative gain modulations of sensory-evoked responses. In this case, the NC structure might not be due to the presence of discrete, multiple channels broadcasting visual information as concluded. I also find that the claim of multiple discrete broadcasting channels needs more support before discarding the alternative hypothesis that a continuum of tuning similarity explains the large NCs observed in groups of neurons.

      Specifically:

      Major concerns:

      (1) Multiplicative gain modulation underlying correlated noise between similarly tuned neurons

      (1a) The conclusion that visual information is broadcasted in discrete channels across visual areas relies on interpreting NC as reflecting, direct or indirect connectivity between pairs, or common inputs. However, a large fraction of the activity in the mouse visual system is known to reflect spontaneous and instructed movements, including locomotion and face movements, among others. Running activity and face movements are some of the largest contributors to visual cortex activity and exert a multiplicative gain on sensory-evoked responses (Niell et al, Stringer et al, among others). Thus, trial-by-fluctuations of behavioral state would result in gain modulations that, due to their multiplicative nature, would result in more shared variability in cotuned neurons, as multiplication affects neurons that are responding to the stimulus over those that are not responding ( see Lin et al, Neuron 2015 for a similar point).<br /> As behavioral modulations are not considered, this confound affects most of the conclusions of the manuscript, as it would result in larger NCs the more similar the tuning of the neurons is, independently of any connectivity feature. It seems that this alternative hypothesis can explain most of the results without the need for discrete broadcasting channels or any particular network architecture and should be addressed to support its main claims.

      (1b) In Figure 5 the observations are interpreted as evidence for NCs reflecting features of the network architecture, as NCs measured using gratings predicted NC to naturalistic videos. However, it seems from Figure 5 A that signal correlations (SCs) from gratings had non-zero correlations with SCs during naturalistic videos (is this the case?). Thus, neurons that are cotuned to gratings might also tend to be coactivated during the presentation of videos. In this case, they are also expected to be susceptible to shared behaviorally driven fluctuations, independently of any circuit architecture as explained before. This alternative interpretation should be addressed before concluding that these measurements reflect connectivity features.

      We thank the reviewer for acknowledging the contributions of our study.

      The reviewer suggested that gain modulation might be interfering with the interpretation of the NC connectivity. We have addressed this issue in the General Response above.

      Here, we will elaborate on one additional analysis we performed, in case it might be of interest. We carried out multiplicative gain modeling by implementing an established method (Goris et al. 2014 Nat Neurosci) on our dataset. We were able to perform the modeling work successfully. However, we found that it is not a suitable model for explaining the current dataset because the multiplicative gain induced a negative correlation. This seemed odd but can be explained. First, top-down input is not purely multiplicative but rather both additive and multiplicative. Second, the top-down modulation is high dimensional. Third, the firing rate of layer 2/3 mouse visual cortex neurons is lower than the firing rates for non-human primate recordings used in the development of the method (Goris et al. 2014 Nat Neurosci). Thus, we did not pursue the model further. We just mention it here in case the outcome might be of interest to fellow researchers.

      (2) Discrete vs continuous communication channels

      (2a) One of the author's main claims is that the mouse cortical network consists of discrete communication channels. This discreteness is based on an unbiased clustering approach to the tuning of neurons, followed by a manual grouping into six categories in relation to the stimulus space. I believe there are several problems with this claim. First, this clustering approach is inherently trying to group neurons and discretise neural populations. To make the claim that there are 'discrete communication channels' the null hypothesis should be a continuous model. An explicit test in favor of a discrete model is lacking, i.e. are the results better explained using discrete groups vs. when considering only tuning similarity? Second, the fact that 65 classes are recovered (out of 72 conditions) and that manual clustering is necessary to arrive at the six categories is far from convincing that we need to think about categorically different subsets of neurons. That we should think of discrete communication channels is especially surprising in this context as the relevant stimulus parameter axes seem inherently continuous: spatial and temporal frequency. It is hard to motivate the biological need for a discretely organized cortical network to process these continuous input spaces.

      (2b) Consequently, I feel the support for discrete vs continuous selective communication is rather inconclusive. It seems that following the author's claims, it would be important to establish if neurons belong to the same groups, rather than tuning similarity is a defining feature for showing large NCs.

      Thanks for pointing this out so that we can clarify.

      We did not mean to argue that the tuning of neurons is discrete. Our conclusions are not dependent on asserting a particular degree of discreteness. We performed GMM clustering to label neurons with an identity so that we could analyze the NC connectivity structure with a degree of granularity supported by the data. Our analysis suggested that communication happens within a class, rather than through mixed classes. We realized that using the term “discrete” may be confusing. In the revised text we used the term “unmixed” or “non-mixing” instead to emphasize that the communication happens between neurons belonging to the same tuning cluster, or class. 

      However, we do see how the question of discreteness among classes might be interesting to readers. To provide further information, we have included a new Fig. S2 to visualize the GMM classes using t-SNE embedding.

      Finally, as stated in point 1, the larger NCs observed within groups than across groups might be due to the multiplicative gain of state modulations, due to the larger tuning similarity of the neurons within a class or group.

      We have addressed this issue in the General Response above and the response to comment (1).

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewing Editor (Recommendations For The Authors):

      A general recommendation discussed with the reviewers is to make use of behavioural recording to assess whether shared behaviourally driven modulations can explain the observed relation between SC and NC, independently of the network architecture. Alternatively, a simulation or model might also address this point as well as the possibility that the relation of SC and NC might be also independent of network architecture given the sparseness of the sensory responses in L2/3.

      We have addressed this in the General Response above.

      Broadly speaking, inferring network architecture based on NCs is extremely challenging. Consequently, the study could also be substantially improved by reframing the results in terms of distributed co-active ensembles without insinuation of direct anatomical connectivity between them.

      We agree that the inferring network architecture based on NCs is challenging. The current study has revealed some principles of functional networks measured by NCs, and we showed that cross-stimulus NC connectivity provides effective constraints to network modeling. We are explicit about the nature of NCs in the manuscript. For example, in the Abstract, we write “to measure correlated variability (i.e., noise correlations, NCs)”, and in the Introduction, we write “NCs are due to connectivity (direct or indirect connectivity between the neurons, and/or shared input)”. We are following conventions in the field (e.g., Sporns 2016; Cohen and Kohn 2011).

      Notice also that the abstract or title should make clear that the study was made in mice.

      Sorry for the confusion, we now clearly state the study was carried out in mice in the Abstract and Introduction.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      The manuscript presents a meticulous characterization of noise correlations in the visual cortical network. However, as I outline in the public review, I think the use of noise correlations to infer communication channels is problematic and I urge the authors to carefully consider this terminology. Language such as "strength of connections" (Figure 4D) should be avoided.

      We now state in the figure legend that the plot in Fig. 4D shows the average NC value.

      My general suggestion to the authors, which primarily concerns the interpretation of analyses in Figures 4-6, is to consider the possible impact of shared top-down modulation on noise correlations. If behavioral data was recorded simultaneously (e.g. using cameras to record face and body movements), behavioral modulation should be considered alongside signal correlation as a possible factor influencing NCs.

      We have addressed this issue in the General Response above.

      I may be misunderstanding the analysis in Figure 4C but it appears circular. If the fraction of neurons belonging to a particular tuning group is larger, then the number of in-group high NC pairs will be higher for that group even if high NC pairs are distributed randomly. Can you please clarify? I frankly do not understand the analysis in Figure 4D and it is unclear to me how the analyses in Figure 4C-D address the hypotheses depicted in the cartoons.

      Sorry for the confusion, we have clarified this in the Fig. 4 legend.

      Each HVA has a SFTF bias (Fig. 1E,F; Marshel et al., 2011; Andermann et al., 2011; Vries et al., 2020). Each red marker on the graph in Fig. 4C is a single V1-HVA pair (blue markers are within an area) for a particular SFTF group (Fig. 1). The x-axis indicates the number of high NC pairs in the SFTF group in the V1-HVA pair divided by the total number of high NC pairs per that V1-HVA pair (summed over all SFTF groups). The trend is that for HVAs with a bias towards a particular SFTF group, there are also more high NC pairs in that SFTF group, and thus it is consistent with the model on the right side. This is not circular because it is possible to have a SFTF bias in an HVA and have uniformly low NCs. The reviewer is correct that a random distribution of high NCs could give a similar effect, which is still consistent with the model: that the number of high NC pairs (and not their specific magnitudes) can account for SFTF biases in HVAs.

      To contrast with that model, we tested whether the average NC value for each tuning group varies. That is, can a small number of very high NCs account for SFTF biases in HVAs? That is what is examined in Fig. 4D. We found that the average NC value does not account for the SFTF biases. Thus, the SFTF biases were not related to the modulation in NC (i.e., functional connection strength). 

      I found the discussion section quite odd and did not understand the relevance of the discussion of the coefficient of variation of various quantities to the present manuscript. It would be more useful to discuss the limitations and possible interpretations of noise correlation measurements in more detail.

      We have revised the discussion section to focus on interpreting the results of the current study and comparing them with those of previous studies.

      Figure 3B: please indicate what the different colors mean - I assume it is the same as Figure 3A but it is unclear.

      We added text to the legend for clarification.

      Typos: Page 7: "direct/indirection wiring", Page 11: "pooled over all texted areas"

      We have fixed the typos.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      The significance of the results feels like it could be articulated better. The main conclusion is that V1 to HVA connections avoid mixing channels and send distinctly tuned information along distinct channels - a more explicit description of what this functional network understanding adds would be useful to the reader.

      Thanks for the suggestion. We have edited the introduction section and the discussion section to make the take-home message more clear.

      Previous studies with anatomical data already indicate distinctly tuned channels - several of which the authors cite - although inconsistently:

      • Kim et al 2018 https://doi.org/10.1016/j.neuron.2018.10.023

      • Glickfeld et al., 2013 (cited)

      • Han et al., 2022 (cited)

      • Han and Bonin 2023 (cited)

      Thanks for the suggestion, we now cite the Kim et al. 2018 paper.

      I think the information you provide is valuable - but the value should be more clearly spelled out - This section from the end of the discussion for example feels like abdicates that responsibility:<br /> "In summary, mesoscale two-photon imaging techniques open up the window of cellular-resolution functional connectivity at the system level. How to make use of the knowledge of functional connectivity remains unclear, given that functional connectivity provides important constraints on population neuron behavior."

      A discussion of how the results relate to previous studies and a section on the limitations of the study seems warranted.

      Thanks for the suggestion, we have extensively edited the discussion section to make the take-home message clear and discuss prior studies and limitations of the present study.

      Details:

      Analyses or simulations showing that the dependency of correlations on similarity of tuning is not an artifact of how the data was acquired is in my mind missing and if that is the case it is crucial that this be addressed.

      At each step of data analysis, we performed control analysis to assess the fidelity of the conclusion. For example, on the spike train inference (Fig. S4), GMM clustering (Fig. S1), and noise correlation analysis (Figs. 2, S5).

      None of the statistical testing seems to use animals as experimental units (instead of neurons). This could over-inflate the significance of the results. Wherever applicable and possible, I would recommend using hierarchical bootstrap for testing or showing that the differences observed are reproducible across animals.

      We analyzed the tuning selectivity of HVAs (Fig. 1F) using experimental units, rather than neurons. It is very difficult to observe all tuning classes in each experiment, so pooling neurons across animals is necessary for much of the analysis. We do take care to avoid overstating statistical results, and we show the data points in most figure to give the reader an impression of the distributions.

      Page 2. "The number of neurons belonged to the six tuning groups combined: V1, 5373; LM, 1316; AL, 656; PM, 491; LI, 334." Yet the total recorded number of neurons is 17,990. How neurons were excluded is mentioned in Methods but it should be stated more explicitly in Results.

      We have added text in the Fig. 1 legend to direct the audience to the Methods section for information on the exclusion / inclusion criteria.

      Figure 1C, left. I don't understand how correlation is the best way to quantify the consistency of class center with a subset of data. Why not use for example as the mean square error. The logic underlying this analysis is not explained in Methods.

      Sorry for the confusion, we have clarified this in the Methods section.

      We measured the consistency of the centers of the Gaussian clusters, which are 45-dimensional vectors in the PC dimensions. We measured the Pearson correlation of Gaussian center vectors independently defined by GMM clustering on random subsets of neurons. We found the center of the Gaussian profile of each class was consistent (Fig. 1C). The same class of different GMMs was identified by matching the center of the class.

      Figure 1E. There are statements in the text about cell groups being more represented in certain visual areas. These differences are not well represented in the box plots. Can't the individual data points be plotted? I have also not found the description and results of statistical testing for these data.

      We have replotted the figure (now Fig. 1F) with dot scatters which show all of the individual experiments.

      Figure 2A, right, since these are paired data, I am not quite sure why only marginal distributions are shown. It would be interesting to know the distributions of correlations that are significant.

      This is only for illustration showing that NCs are measurable and significantly different from zero or shuffled controls. The distribution of NCs is broad and has both positive and negative values. We are not using this for downstream analysis.

      Figure 4A, I wonder if it would not be better to concentrate on significant correlations.

      We focused on large correlation values rather than significant values because we wanted to examine the structure of “strongly connected” neuron pairs. Negative and small correlation values can be significant as well. Focusing on large values would allow us to generate a clear interpretation.  

      Figure 4B, 'Mean strength of connections' which I presume mean correlations is not defined anywhere that I can see.

      I believe the reviewer means Fig. 4D. It means the average NC value. We have edited the figure legend to add clarity.

      Figure 4F, a few words explaining how to understand the correlation matrix in text or captions would be helpful.

      Sorry for the confusion, we have clarified this part in figure legend for Fig. 4F.

      Page 5, right column: Incomplete sentence: "To determine whether it is the number of high NC pairs or the magnitude of the NCs,".

      We have edited this sentence.

      Page 5, right column: "Prior findings from studies of axonal projections from V1 to HVAs indicated that the number of SF-TF-specific boutons -rather than the strength of boutons- contribute to the SF-TF biases among HVAs (Glickfeld et al., 2013)." Glickfeld et al. also reported that boutons with tuning matched to the target area showed stronger peak dF/F responses.

      Thank you. We have revised this part accordingly.

      Page 9, the Discussion and Figure 7 which situates the study results in a broader context is welcome and interesting, but I have the feeling that more words should be spent explaining the figure and conceptual framework to a non-expert audience. I am a bit at a loss about how to read the information in the figure.

      Sorry for the confusion, we have added an explanation about this section (page 10, right column).

      As far as I can see, data availability is not addressed in the manuscript. The data, code to analyze the data and generate the figures, and simulation code should be made available in a permanent public repository. This includes data for visual area mapping, calcium imaging data, and any data accessory to the experiments.

      We have stated in the manuscript that code and data are available upon request. We regularly share data with no conditions (e.g., no entitlement to authorship), and we often do so even prior to publication.

      The sex of the mice should be indicated in Figure T1.

      The sex of the mice was mixed. This is stated in the Methods section.

      Methods:

      Section on statistical testing, computation of explained variance missing, etc. I feel many analyses are not thoroughly described.

      Sorry for the confusion, we have improved our method section.

      Signal correlation (similarity between two neurons' average responses to stimuli) and its relation to noise correlation is not formally defined.

      We have included the definition of signal correlation in the Methods.

      Number of visual stimulation trials is not stated in Methods. Only stated figure caption.

      The number of visual stimulus trials is provided in the last paragraph of the Methods section (Visual Stimuli).

      Fix typos: incorrect spelling, punctuation, and missing symbols (e.g. closing parentheses).

      We have carefully examined the spelling, punctuation, and grammar. We have corrected errors and we hope that none remain.

      Why use intrinsic imaging to locate retinotopic boundaries in mice already expressing GCaMP6s?

      We agree with the reviewer that calcium imaging of visual cortex can be used to identify the visual cortex.

      It is true that areas can be mapped using the GCaMP signals. That is not our preferred approach. Using intrinsic imaging to define the boundary between V1 and HVAs has been a well refined routine in our lab for over a decade. It is part of our standard protocol. One advantage is that the data (from intrinsic signals) is of the same nature every time. This enables us to use the same mapping procedure no matter what reporters mice might be expressing (and the pattern, e.g., patchy or restricted to certain cell types).

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      The possibilty that larger intra-group NCs observed simply reflect a multiplicative gain on cotuned neurons could be addressed using pupil and/or face recordings: Does pupil size or facial motion predict NCs and if factored out, does signal correlation still predict NCs?

      Perhaps a variant of the network model presented in Figure 6 with multiplicative gain could also be tested to investigate these issues.

      We have addressed this issue in general response.

      Here, we will elaborate on one additional analysis we performed, in case it might be of interest. We carried out multiplicative gain modeling by implementing an established method (Goris et al. 2014 Nat Neurosci) on our dataset. We were able to perform the modeling work successfully. However, we found that it is not a suitable model for explaining the current dataset because the multiplicative gain induced a negative correlation. This seemed odd but can be explained. First, top-down input is not purely multiplicative but rather both additive and multiplicative. Second, the top-down modulation is high dimensional. Third, the firing rate of layer 2/3 mouse visual cortex neurons is lower than the firing rates for non-human primate recordings used in the development of the method (Goris et al. 2014 Nat Neurosci). Thus, we did not pursue the model further. We just mention it here in case the outcome might be of interest to fellow researchers.

      Similarly further analyses can be done to strengthen support for the claims that the observed NCs reflect discrete communication channels. A direct test of continuous vs categorical channels would strengthen the conclusions. One possible analysis would be to compare pairs with similar tuning (same SC) belonging to the same or different groups.

      Thanks for pointing this out so that we can clarify.

      We did not mean to argue that the tuning of neurons is discrete. Our conclusions are not dependent on asserting a particular degree of discreteness. We performed GMM clustering to label neurons with an identity so that we could analyze the NC connectivity structure with a degree of granularity supported by the data. Our analysis suggested that communication happens within a class, rather than through mixed classes. We realized that using the term “discrete” may be confusing. In the revised text we used the term “unmixed” or “non-mixing” instead to emphasize that the communication happens between neurons belonging to the same tuning cluster, or class. 

      However, we do see how the question of discreteness among classes might be interesting to readers. To provide further information, we have included a new Fig. S2 to visualize the GMM classes using t-SNE embedding.

      I also found many places where the manuscript needs clarification and /or more methodological details:<br /> • How many times was each of the stimulus conditions repeated? And how many times for the two naturalistic videos? What was the total duration of the experiments?

      The number of visual stimulus trials is provided in the last paragraph of the Methods section entitled Visual Stimuli. About 15 trials were recorded for each drifting grating stimulus, and about 20 trials were recorded for each naturalistic video.

      • Typo: Suit2p should be Suite2p (section Calcium image processing - Methods).

      We have fixed the typo.

      • What do the error bars in Figure 1E represent? Differences in group representation across areas from Figure 1E are mentioned in the text without any statistical testing.

      We have revised the Figure 1E (current Fig. 1F), and we now show all data points.

      • The manuscript would benefit from a comparison of the observed area-specific tuning biases across areas (Figure 1E and others) with the previous literature.

      We have included additional discussion on this in the last paragraph of the section entitled Visual cortical neurons form six tuning groups.

      • Why are inferred spike trains used to calculate NCs? Why can't dF/F be used? Do the results differ when using dF/F to calculate NC? Please clarify in the text.

      We believe inferred spike trains provide better resolution and make it easier to compare with quantitative values from electrical recordings. Notice that NC values computed using dF/F can be much larger than those computed by inferred spike trains. For example, see Smith & Hausser 2010 Nat Neurosci. Supplementary Figure S8.

      • The sentence seems incomplete or unclear: "That is, there are more high NC pairs that are in-group." Explicit vs what?

      We have revised this sentence.

      • Figure 1E is unclear to me. What is being plotted? Please add a color bar with the metric and the units for the matrix (left) and in the tuning curves (right panels). If the Y and X axes represent the different classes from the GMM, why are there more than 65 rows? Why is the matrix not full?

      We have revised this figure. Fig. 1D is the full 65 x 65 matrix. Fig. 1F has small 3x3 matrices mapping the responses to different TF and SF of gratings. We hope the new version is clearer.

      • How are receptive fields defined? How are their long and short axes calculated? How are their limits defined when calculating RF overlap?

      We have added further details in the Methods section entitled “Receptive field analysis”.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study investigated the role of transcriptional and translational controls of gene expression in dorsal root ganglia and lumbar spinal cord in neuropathic pain in mice. Using ribosome profiling (Ribo-seq) and translating ribosome affinity purification (TRAP), they show changes in transcriptomic and translational gene expression at the peripheral and central levels rapidly after nerve injury. While translational changes in gene expression remained elevated for more than two months in both DRGs and the spinal cord, transcriptomic regulation was absent in the spinal cord long after the onset of neuropathy. Disrupting mRNA translation in dorsal horn neurons using antisense oligonucleotides reduced mechanical withdrawal threshold and facial expression of pain. Using fluorescent noncanonical amino acid tagging (FUNCAT), the authors further show that de novo protein expression primarily occurs in inhibitory neurons in the superficial dorsal horn after nerve injury. Accordingly, a selective increase in translational control of gene expression in spinal inhibitory neurons, or a subset of mainly inhibitory neurons expressing parvalbumin (PV), using transgenic mice, led to a decrease in the excitability of PV neurons and mechanical allodynia. In contrast, decreasing the translational control of spinal PV neurons prevented the alteration of the electrophysiological properties of the PV cells induced by nerve injury.

      Strengths:

      This is a well-written article that uncovers a previously unappreciated role of gene expression control in PV neurons, which seems to play an important part in the loss of inhibitory control of spinal circuits typically seen after peripheral nerve injury. The conclusions are generally well supported by the data.

      Weaknesses:

      The study would benefit from further clarifications in the methods section and a deeper analysis of gene expression changes in mRNA expression and ribosomal footprint observed after nerve injury.

      We have improved the description of the methods and clarified the rationale underlying the presentation of gene expression changes. We have also added lists of the top differentially expressed genes at both the translational and transcriptional levels to Figure 1, and improved the description of the datasets in the Supplementary Materials.

      Antisense oligonucleotides used to reduce translation by disrupting eIF4E expression were administered i.c.v. It is unknown if the authors controlled for locomotor deficits, which might add confounds in the interpretation of behavioral results. A more local route should have been preferable to avoid targeting brain regions, which could potentially affect behavior.

      Thank you for raising this important point. We used i.c.v. administration to specifically target the central nervous system (CNS) without affecting the peripheral nervous system, as this is the recommended approach for selectively targeting the CNS using ASOs. Intraspinal administration of ASOs (into the spinal cord parenchyma) at an effective dose for long-term effects is not feasible. Intrathecal administration is possible but would result in exposure of the DRGs to the injected ASO and therefore would not be specific to the CNS.

      To rule out potential locomotor deficits, we now subjected mice to the rotarod and open field tests to assess motor function. We found no differences between eIF4E-ASO– and control-ASO– injected mice (Fig. 2J, K).

      In the revised version of the manuscript, we now better explain the rationale for i.c.v. injection. Moreover, we discuss the potential supraspinal effects of eIF4E-ASO in the Limitations section, while also describing the lack of motor phenotypes in the rotarod/open field tests.

      Only female mice were used for Ribo-Seq, TRAP, FUNCAT, and electrophysiology, but both sexes were used for behavior experiments.

      Our manuscript involves various complicated techniques and analyses. Due to limited resources, we therefore opted to use only females for expensive and labor-intensive experiments, such as Ribo-Seq, TRAP, FUNCAT, and electrophysiology, while using both sexes for behavioral studies.

      We now clearly acknowledge this limitation in the revised manuscript.

      The conditional KO of 4E-BP1 using transgenic animals should be total in the targeted cells. However, only a partial reduction is reported in Figure S2 in GAD2, PV, Vglut2, or Tac1 cells. Again, proper methods for quantification of fluorescence in these experiments are lacking.

      We apologize for the oversight; we have now updated the description of the methods for IHC signal quantification. Although genetic ablation is indeed expected to result in a complete loss of signal, in practice, previous studies employing IHC, but not Western blotting, for 4E-BP1 have also shown only a partial reduction in signal. This is likely because the 4E-BP1 antibody partially detects other epitopes. Using the same antibody, we and others have shown complete elimination of the band corresponding to 4E-BP1 in spinal cord and DRG tissue (e.g., PMID: 26678009).

      The elegant knockdown of eIF4E using AAV-mediated shRNAmir shows a recovery of the electrophysiological intrinsic properties of PV neurons after injury. It is unclear if such manipulation would be sufficient to reverse mechanical allodynia in vivo.

      Thank you for this concern, which was also raised by other reviewers. We have now performed two additional experiments, which revealed that suppressing the mTORC1–eIF4E axis in spinal PV neurons (using AAVs expressing eIF4E-shRNA in spinal PV neurons [Fig. 6A] and transgenic mice expressing non-phosphorylatable 4E-BP1 in PV neurons [Fig. 6B]) is not sufficient to alleviate neuropathic pain. These new findings need to be reconciled with our other results showing that eIF4E downregulation in PV neurons prevents the SNI-induced reduction in their excitability, and that ASO-mediated suppression of eIF4E, which affects all cell types, alleviates neuropathic pain.

      Together, these results suggest that targeting translational control in PV neurons is sufficient to reverse SNI-induced reduction in PV neuron excitability, but is not sufficient to prevent behavioral phenotypes, which likely require changes in other cell types and/or additional pathways, as well as other alterations within PV neurons. We have now included these new results in the revised manuscript (Fig. 6A and Fig. 6B) and revised the text accordingly. These changes include toning down the role of translational control in PV neurons after SNI in driving behavioral hypersensitivity.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      I reviewed the manuscript titled "Translational Control in the Spinal Cord Regulates Gene Expression and Pain Hypersensitivity in the Chronic Phase of Neuropathic Pain." This manuscript compares transcription and translation in the spinal cord during the acute and chronic phases of neuropathic pain induced by surgical nerve injury. The authors chose to focus their investigation on translation in the chronic phase due to its greater impact on gene expression in the spinal cord compared to transcription.

      (1) The study is significant because the molecular mechanisms underlying chronic pain remain elusive. The role of translational regulation in the spinal cord has not been investigated in neuroplasticity and chronic pain mouse models. The manuscript is innovative and technically robust. The authors employed several cutting-edge techniques such as Rio-seq, TRAP-seq, slice electrophysiology, and viral approaches. Despite the technical complexity, the manuscript is wellwritten. The authors demonstrated that inhibition of eIF4E alleviates pain hypersensitivity, that de novo protein synthesis is more pronounced in inhibitory interneurons, and that manipulating mTOR-eIF4E pathways alters mechanical sensitivity and neuroplasticity.

      Strengths:

      Innovation (conceptual and technical levels), data support the conclusions.

      Weakness:

      Confusion about the sex of the animals. It is unclear whether eIF4E ASO affects translation and which cells. It is not determined that modulating translation in PV<sup>+</sup> neurons impacts neuropathic pain behaviors.

      We thank the reviewer for their thoughtful comments. In the revised version of the manuscript, we better explain that both sexes were used for behavioral experiments, whereas only females were used for Ribo-Seq, TRAP, FUNCAT, and electrophysiology experiments.

      ASOs are not known to be intrinsically cell-type-specific; therefore, we do not expect differential effects on excitatory versus inhibitory neurons. We demonstrated that eIF4E-ASO reduces the levels of eIF4E, a key translation initiation factor that is rate-limiting for cap-dependent translation.

      Moreover, in the revised manuscript we included two additional experiments (Fig. 6A and Fig. 6B) showing that decreased eIF4E-dependent translation in PV neurons is not sufficient to alleviate neuropathic pain, despite its effects on excitability measures. We have updated the manuscript to reflect these important new findings

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study provides evidence for translational changes in inhibitory spinal dorsal horn neurons following chronic nerve injury. Gene expression changes have been widely studied in the context of pain induction and provided key insights into the adaptation of the nervous system in the early phases of chronic pain. Whereas this is interesting biologically, most patients will arrive in the clinic beyond the acute phase of their injury, thus limiting the translational relevance of these studies. Recent studies have extended this work to highlight the difference between acute and chronic pain states, potentially explaining the cascading factors leading to chronic pain, and hopefully how to prevent this in vulnerable populations. The present study suggests that translational changes within spinal inhibitory populations could underlie long-term chronic pain, leading to decreased inhibition and heightened pain thresholds.

      Strengths:

      The approaches used and the broad outcomes of the manuscript are interesting and could be an exciting development in the field. The authors are using approaches more common in molecular biology and extending these into neuroscientific research, getting into the detail of how pathology could impact gene expression differentially across the course of an injury. This could open up new areas of research to selectively target not only defined populations but additionally help alleviate pain symptoms once an injury has already reached the maintenance phase. There is an opportunity to delve into what must be a very large data set and learn more about what genes are differentially translated and how this could affect circuit function.

      Weaknesses:

      Whereas the authors approach a key question in pain chronicity, the manuscript falls a little short of providing any conclusive data. The manuscript was in some areas very difficult to follow. Terminology was not always consistent or clear, and the flow of the manuscript could use some attention to highlight key areas. Whereas the overall message is clear in the summary, this would not necessarily be the case when reading the manuscript alone.

      To improve the clarity and flow of the manuscript, we made changes to the text, including the addition of intermediate summaries and further explanations of terms and experiments.

      The study claims to show that translational control mechanisms in the spinal cord play a role in mediating neuropathic pain hypersensitivity, but the studies presented do not fully support this statement. The authors instead provide some correlation between translation and behavioural reflex excitability (namely vfh and Hargreaves).

      It is difficult to fully interpret the work, as there are a number of inconsistencies, namely the range of timings pre- and post-injury, lack of controls for manipulations, the use of shmiRNA versus lineage deletions, and lack of detailed somatosensory testing. It is not completely clear how this work could be translatable as is, without a deeper understanding of how translational control affects circuit function and whether all of this is necessarily bad for the system, or whether this is a positive homeostatic adaptation to the hyperexcitability of the circuit following injury.

      A large portion of the work is focussed on showing an inhibitory-selective change in translation following chronic nerve injury. The evidence for this is however lacking. Statistics to show that translational effects are restricted to inhibitory subpopulations are inadequate. The author's choice of transgenic lines is not clear and seems to rely on availability rather than hypothesis.

      Although we agree with some of the criticism, we have reservations regarding other points raised by the reviewer. To address several of the concerns, we added new experiments (Fig. 2J, 2K, 6A, and 6B). We also made changes to the text to improve readability and to better explain the rationale for the study and our focus on inhibitory neurons.

      For example, we clarify that we do not state that changes in mRNA translation in the spinal cord during the chronic phase of neuropathic pain occur exclusively in inhibitory neurons. Although we observe changes in general protein synthesis, assessed using FUNCAT, in inhibitory but not excitatory neurons after SNI, alterations in the translation of specific transcripts, assessed using the TRAP approach, are observed in both excitatory and inhibitory neurons.

      The second part of the paper focuses on inhibitory neurons because these neurons demonstrate larger translational changes. We now clearly indicate that alterations in excitatory neurons are also likely important during the chronic phase of SNI. This conclusion is further supported by newly added results (Fig. 6A and Fig. 6B), showing that targeting eIF4E-dependent translation in spinal PV neurons using two different approaches is not sufficient to reverse pain hypersensitivity.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Analysis of gene expression in Figure 1 lacks clarity, and the data do not effectively guide the reader toward their intended purpose. A list of the most dysregulated genes at the transcriptional level, the translational level, or both, would help the reader fully appreciate the outcome of this analysis. Similarly, what is the message conveyed by Figures 4 D-G?

      As requested, we have now included the top 10 upregulated and top 10 downregulated genes at both the translational and transcriptional levels in Figure 1. We also expanded the main text and figure legends to clarify that Supplementary Figure 1 includes volcano plots for all conditions, and that Supplementary Table 1 contains the complete datasets. In addition, we expanded the figure legends to explain the organization of the data in Supplementary Table 1. Finally, we provide pathway analyses of translationally regulated genes in the spinal cord, as this condition is the primary focus of the study.

      Figure 4D–G shows the top 15 translationally upregulated and downregulated genes in inhibitory neurons at days 4 (D) and 60 (E), and in Tac1<sup>+</sup> excitatory neurons at days 4 (F) and 60 (G) (four conditions in total) after SNI. These panels convey that translational regulation of specific transcripts occurs in both inhibitory and excitatory neurons. Panel 4H further demonstrates that, although translational changes are observed in both neuronal populations, a greater number of genes are altered in inhibitory neurons. We have improved the readability and flow of this section to better convey this message.

      Details about how AHA was quantified in Figure 3 are missing. It is unclear how and where the cells were selected for quantification. Objective criteria for expression/no expression of AHA in the cells are not indicated. Additionally, the signal seems to have somehow been normalized over images from the contralateral side. It is difficult to understand what the bar graphs actually represent in panel C. One would interpret them as percentages of excitatory/inhibitory cells expressing AHA.

      We apologize for the lack of clarity. We have now expanded the description of the analyses in the figure legend and in the Methods to better explain the results shown in Fig. 3. The imaged cells were selected based on specific criteria, such as lamina location and cell type. In panel C (the anisomycin experiment), values were normalized to the control group. In all other panels, no normalization was applied, and the values represent the AHA integrated density on maximumintensity projection images (averaged per mouse). We also describe the number of sections and cells per mouse, as well as other technical details, as requested.

      In addition, a few minor changes should be made:

      (1) Rephrase Introduction: "Peripheral nerve injury can cause neuropathic pain, a chronic pain condition [...]." Neuropathic pain is not necessarily chronic.

      This sentence was reworded to read “Peripheral nerve injury may result in neuropathic pain, a debilitating condition with limited effective treatment options”.

      (2) Host species for secondary anti-mouse antibodies are provided but not for the anti-rabbit (donkey?). Also, check for consistency in the methods section. The method mentions P21 two secondary antibodies and an apparent third antibody named "anti-HRP-conjugated antibody." Please provide information about this antibody, or remove it.

      Thank you for flagging it, the inadvertent repetition of “anti-HRP-conjugated antibody” was removed.

      (3) Provide primary antibody hosts on page 22.

      The hosts of all primary and secondary antibodies were now provided.

      (4) Define PBST on page 21 and PBS-T on page 22.

      We defined PBST in the revised manuscript (0.2% Triton-X100 in PBS).

      (5) Specify the filter sets used for fluorescent microscopy.

      We specified the filter sets used for fluorescent microscopy.

      (6) Change the legend to 50% withdrawal threshold for vF behavior tests.

      We addressed this by making the requested change in all relevant legends.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Major:

      (1) The authors need to show that eIF4E ASO (Figure 2) reduces translation in both inhibitory and excitatory neurons.

      ASOs are not intrinsically cell-type specific, as they do not contain promoters or regulatory elements and act wherever they enter cells and engage RNase H1. However, differences in ASO effects across cell types can arise from variability in uptake, intracellular trafficking, RNase H activity, or target mRNA expression levels.

      In our study, we used eIF4E-ASO as a general approach to demonstrate that eIF4E-dependent translation contributes to SNI-induced hypersensitivity, particularly at the chronic phase. We show a marked reduction in eIF4E levels in the spinal cord of eIF4E-ASO–injected mice compared with controls. We do not claim that the effects of eIF4E-ASO are mediated by a specific cell type; rather, they may involve excitatory neurons, inhibitory neurons, and non-neuronal cells, such as microglia and astrocytes, among others.

      Notably, while eIF4E can promote general translation during development, in adult mice it predominantly regulates cap-dependent translation of specific mRNAs without having a major effect on overall protein synthesis. In our case, the partial reduction in eIF4E is unlikely to substantially affect general translation, as assessed by AHA incorporation, and would instead require TRAP or Ribo-Seq to detect transcript-specific translational changes. We now better explain the rationale for the eIF4E-ASO experiment and clearly state that the effects observed cannot be attributed to a specific cell type.

      In addition, our new results showing that inhibition of eIF4E-dependent translation in PV neurons is not sufficient to alleviate SNI-induced mechanical hypersensitivity suggest that translational changes in other neuronal and/or non-neuronal cell types contribute to hypersensitivity. This important point is now more clearly explained in the revised manuscript, and the role of PV neurons is toned down throughout the paper.

      (2) In Figure 5, it is necessary to show the effect of eIF4E-shRNA in PV+ neurons on neuropathic behaviors (von Frey and MGS).

      To address this important concern, we performed two new experiments, both of which showed that inhibiting the mTORC1–eIF4E axis in parvalbumin neurons is not sufficient to alleviate neuropathic pain. First, we injected PV-Cre mice with AAV-eIF4E-shRNAmir and a scrambled control. We found that downregulating eIF4E in spinal PV neurons has no effect on SNI-induced mechanical hypersensitivity. We used a second, complementary approach to validate this finding. Specifically, we generated transgenic mice in which a non-phosphorylatable form of 4E-BP1 is expressed in PV neurons. Because non-phosphorylatable 4E-BP1 acts as a translational suppressor of eIF4E, this approach is functionally similar to eIF4E deletion.

      Altogether, our findings indicate that cell-type–non-specific suppression of eIF4E using ASOs is sufficient to alleviate neuropathic pain, particularly at the chronic phase. In contrast, while activation of eIF4E-dependent translation in PV neurons (via 4E-BP1 deletion) induces pain hypersensitivity, suppression of eIF4E-dependent translation in PV neurons inhibits SNI-induced decrease in PV neuron excitability but does not alleviate pain hypersensitivity. Thus, increased eIF4E-dependent translation in PV neurons is sufficient to induce pain hypersensitivity, but targeting this pathway in PV neurons alone is not sufficient to reverse neuropathic pain.

      Potential explanations for these findings include: (1) the presence of other important mechanisms in PV neurons (e.g., changes in synaptic transmission) that are translation independent; (2) the insufficiency of correcting reduced PV neuron excitability to alleviate hypersensitivity; and (3) an essential role for mRNA translation in other neuronal and/or non-neuronal cell types in neuropathic pain. We have updated the manuscript to include these potential explanations in the Discussion section.

      Moderate:

      (1) In Figure 2, MGS should be performed at earlier time points as well.

      We performed MGS when von Frey testing, which is less noisy and less labor intensive in our hands, suggested altered phenotypes.

      (2) In Figure 4B, the gene markers are different in Gad2+ and Tac1+ cells. Please show the 12 markers for both cell types.

      We now better explain the selection of the markers.

      (3) In Figure 5, MGS should be performed to test if the effect is limited to mechanical sensation/reactivity or extends to nociception. Additionally, do these mice exhibit altered locomotion and grip strength?

      As described above, we added experiments involving downregulation of eIF4E and expression of a mutant non-phosphorylatable 4E-BP1 in PV neurons. We performed von Frey testing, which showed no effect of suppressing the mTORC1–eIF4E axis on mechanical hypersensitivity under these conditions. Given these negative results, we did not proceed with mouse grimace scale (MGS) analysis.

      (4) In Figure S2E, the reduction of eIF4E does not appear to be specific to GFP+ cells.

      We now replaced the representative images in this Figure.

      (5) Can chronic neuropathic pain be reduced by enhancing 4E-BP1 specifically in PV+ neurons?

      We added the experiment proposed by the reviewer in Fig. 6B. We found that enhancing 4E-BP1 activity, by expressing a non-phosphorylatable form of 4E-BP1 in PV neurons, is not sufficient to alleviate neuropathic pain hypersensitivity.

      (6) Why did the authors not use PainFace for the MGS?

      We began using manual, blinded MGS scoring, as originally described by Mogil and colleagues in 2010 (PMID: 20453868), for this project before PainFace became available around 2019 (e.g., Tuttle and Zylka) and in later versions (e.g., PMID: 39024163). For consistency, we therefore continued using the same approach throughout the experiments.

      (7) In Figures 2A-C, the labeling of the bar graphs seems incorrect: is it 4E-BP1 or eIF4E immunoreactivity?

      Thank you very much for noticing this; we have corrected the mistake.

      (8) In Figure 1, present the data by sex.

      We performed sequencing analyses only in females. This decision was based on the large number of mice and experimental conditions required for both Ribo-Seq (n = 15 mice per replicate, 3 replicates per condition, and 2 time points for SNI/Sham, ~180 mice total) and TRAP (n = 3 mice per replicate, 3 replicates per condition, 2 time points, and 2 genotypes [Tac1 and GAD2] for SNI/Sham), as well as the high cost of sequencing. Behavioral experiments were performed in both sexes. This information is clearly indicated in the Methods section, and we have now also included it in the Limitations section of the paper.

      (9) While the methods state that all behavioral testing was done with equal numbers of male and female mice, it seems that several experiments were done only in females. In the absence of a strong justification, all experiments should be conducted in both sexes.

      As explained above, due to the very large number of mice required for some experiments and the high cost of sample processing and sequencing, only behavioral experiments were performed in both sexes. We now clearly describe the sex of the animals used in each experiment in the figure legends.

      Minor:

      (1) In Figure 3, the legend is confusing and lacks labels.

      We expanded the Fig. 3 legends and added labels, as requested.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Overall, the manuscript needs to be made clearer and more specific. As it stands, the logic and flow are difficult to follow. Figure legends are not always indicative of the figure and are inconsistent.

      Regarding timelines:

      The logic of the different timelines is not clear. Either explain why different times post-injury were chosen between experiments or keep them consistent. It seems a key message here is that the timing is important. It therefore follows that the authors should be strict about this in their own experiments. Figure 1: 4 and 63 days. Figure 2: Day 3 and weeks 8 and 12. Figure 3: Days 4 and 60. Figure 4: Days 4 and 60. Figure 5: 6 weeks. Figure S1: 4 and 60. Clarifying why these timings were used in each case and showing at the transcript level that these are most appropriate would be needed.

      We thank the reviewer for carefully reviewing our manuscript. We focused on early versus late time points. For the sequencing experiments, we performed Ribo-seq at day 4 for the early time point and day 63 for the late time point, whereas TRAP analyses (and FUNCAT) were performed at day 4 for the early time point and day 60 for the late time point. These differences (day 60 versus day 63) were due to logistical issues related to sample collection. In our view, there are no major biological differences between day 60 and day 63 for the late time points, particularly because we do not perform direct comparisons across different experiments.

      In other experiments, we used several time points (e.g., day 3, as well as 6, 8, and 12 weeks) either to follow the development of phenotypes or based on previous publications regarding the timing of specific effects. We now acknowledge the potential limitation of using slightly different time points in the Limitations section of the paper.

      Regarding the use of inhibitory and excitatory markers:The comparisons they made between subpopulations seem a little random- for one, the number of Tac1 positive cells in the dorsal horn is not equal to that of PV, and so the comparison seems inappropriate.

      The number of cells from each subpopulation should not affect the number of DEGs. Because these analyses were performed on bulk mRNA rather than at the single-cell level, the comparisons are made between SNI and control groups within each subpopulation. Thus, the number of differentially translated genes is determined per cell type, not per individual cell.

      The lack of any semblance of variability or statistics with regard to gene changes makes it difficult to assess whether these comparisons were justified experimentally. Pax2 is a developmentally regulated transcription factor, with reduced levels in the adult. Using Pax2- NeuN+ to label excitatory interneurons is therefore not appropriate for comparison. A more appropriate comparison would be to use vGluT2 and GAD67. Similarly, the use of the GAD2Cre seems a poor choice. This is a restricted population of interneurons that have been suggested to have specific roles in presynaptic inhibition. If the authors were interested in this subpopulation for that reason, then they should state so.

      Pax2 is commonly used as a marker of inhibitory neurons in the spinal cord (e.g. PMID: 36323322) as in the adult dorsal horn, Pax2 protein remains expressed in nearly all inhibitory neurons, including both GABAergic (GAD65/67<sup>+</sup>) and glycinergic (GlyT2<sup>+</sup>) neurons. VGluT2 marks terminals of IB4-binding peripheral sensory neurons as well as those of spinal cord excitatory interneurons in lamina II of the dorsal horn, complicating the analyses. We attempted using Lmx1b for excitatory neurons (Pax2 for inhibitory and Lmx1b for excitatory) but could not obtain specific and robust signal using different commercial antibodies (we have no access to non-commercial Pax2 antibody).

      Regarding Cre lines, Gad2-Cre has been extensively used to target GABAergic neurons in the spinal cord. Although it is not expressed in purely glycinergic neurons, it is expressed in GABAergic and mixed GABA/glycine interneurons. Gad2-Cre is more restricted to superficial dorsal laminae I–III, which are relevant to pain processing, versus Gad1-Cre, which may also capture low-level GABAergic neurons in deep laminae and ventral horn inhibitory neurons. Moreover, there are also differences in the developmental profile, whereas Gad1-Cre is expressed earlier at embryonic stages during inhibitory neuron development, GAD2 is expressed later, in post-mitotic and mature inhibitory neurons. Because of these considerations (higher specificity to dorsal horn and later developmental expression), we used Gad2-Cre mouse line in our experiments.

      Regarding cKO experiments:

      It is unclear whether the deletion of Eif4ebp (which is not "ablation" as stated in the manuscript) has had any effect on the PV/GAD2 cells themselves seeing as this deletion would be a lineage deletion. One would imagine that altering transcription in such a population from early development would affect a host of neuronal and circuit properties, such as connectivity, dendritic branching, etc. The authors should show that the circuit properties were not broadly changed, not least as PV is expressed throughout the nervous system and in muscles. This could in itself explain the hypersensitivity described in their results. Experimenters should repeat the AAV shRNAmir experiments in non-injured animals, and not just control animals with the scrambled sh.

      We agree with the concerns related to potential developmental effects. Although it is nearly impossible to reliably and comprehensively demonstrate that circuit properties were not altered in our cKO mice, our manuscript presents several lines of evidence supporting a role for translational control in specific cell types in the regulation of gene expression and nociception independent of developmental effects. First, our translational gene expression analyses were performed in adult WT mice and reflect SNI-induced changes in gene expression at the translational level, assessed using complementary approaches. In addition, the effects of eIF4E ASO delivered to adult animals support a role for translational control in the regulation of SNI-induced pain hypersensitivity at later stages.

      Moreover, downregulation of eIF4E in PV neurons using an AAV-based approach in adult mice affects their SNI-induced excitability, further supporting a role for translational mechanisms in regulating PV neuron plasticity after peripheral nerve injury in adulthood. To acknowledge the potential developmental effects associated with 4E-BP1 deletion using Tac1-Cre, Gad2-Cre, and PV-Cre mouse lines (with PV-Cre beginning expression postnatally), we have included an explicit limitation statement in the Discussion of the revised manuscript.

      We also thank the reviewer for highlighting the distinction between deletion and ablation, and we have corrected this terminology in the revised manuscript.

      Regarding pain:

      A large sticking point within the study is the lack of clarity of the populations they are targeting. Many of the populations mentioned are not expressed solely in the dorsal somatosensory horn and instead are also expressed in the ventral motor horn. This is particularly important with regard to the sensory tests they are performing, which rely on reflex responses. It seems these results, although interesting, are not proof of a pain effect, but rather showing changes in vfh-behaviour. To show this is a pain-specific event, and not just correlative or reflexive, the authors should perform further behavioural tests beyond vfh, Hargreaves, and the grimace scale, such as low threshold touch, rotarod, etc. How much of this effect is due to changes in reflex excitability? Would the authors expect similar results for all neuropathic models but not for chronic inflammatory states for example? Western Blot analysis at the moment is for the whole cord, which could imply changes in the ventral or intermediate horn, it could help strengthen the study to show that these changes are selective to the dorsal cord.

      We have now added a new experiment showing that eIF4E-ASO has no effect on motor function in the rotarod and open field tests (Fig. 2J, K). In addition, the eIF4E-ASO experiment included in the original submission reflects supraspinal behavior, as assessed by MGS. Overall, our study includes numerous experiments and datasets. While we agree with some of the reviewer’s concerns, the extensive additional work requested, including additional neuropathic and inflammatory pain models, further assays of supraspinal behavior, Western blot analyses restricted to the dorsal horn, additional Cre lines and markers, and other analyses, is not feasible within the scope of the current manuscript.

      Notably, in the revised manuscript, we have added new experiments (Fig. 2J, 2K, 6A, 6B) that we believe address the most critical concerns raised by the reviewers, and we have revised the text to more clearly acknowledge the limitations of the study.

      Regarding patch clamp studies:

      An increase in rheobase alone in the PV cells would not in itself account for the changes seen in behaviour, seeing as the authors are suggesting this is a selective effect for von Frey and not radiant heat, for example. The authors should therefore show a change in mechanically-evoked firing of PV/GAD2 cells either by dorsal root stimulation in slice, or by cfos or equivalent marker of activation following sensory stimulation. The title of this figure is also misleading- it is not clear how there is any proof of promotion of plasticity in the experiments shown.

      In the original submission, in addition to an increase in rheobase, we also demonstrated decreased spiking activity in response to a range of stimulating currents (Fig. 4). We agree that assessing mechanically evoked responses of PV neurons would be informative; however, such studies are beyond the scope of the current manuscript.

      To address the final concern, we modified the title of Fig. 5 and the related text. Moreover, the newly added data showing that inhibition of translation in PV neurons does not alleviate SNIinduced hypersensitivity prompted us to tone down, throughout the manuscript, the link between translational changes in PV neurons and pain hypersensitivity.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Thank you for the thoughtful and constructive comments on our manuscript. We have carefully addressed all points raised, and believe the manuscript is substantially improved as a result. In particular, we have performed:

      - Comprehensive spatial analysis of stable mutants. Following Recommendations for the authors comment #1, we performed spatial analysis by binning the anterior-posterior axis into 200 µm strata. This analysis validates our initial conclusions and reveals striking spatiotemporal dynamics, including profoundly blunted HFD responses in foxp1b mutants (68% reduction) and loss of spatial gradients in foxp1a mutants.

      - Substantially enhanced the statistical rigour of the screen analysis. We have implemented stratified Kolmogorov-Smirnov tests (within-experiment testing, then combined via Fisher's method) alongside linear mixed models to control for batch effects. In the revised manuscript, we now focus on three hypertrophy genes – foxp1b, txnipa and mmp14b – which are robustly validated by both methods.

      - Normalisation of adipose area to body size. To address concerns about developmental delay (Recommendations for the authors #2), we now normalise adipose area to standard length. With this normalisation, foxp1b single mutants show only a non-significant trend toward decreased adiposity (updated from our original analysis), while the hypertrophic LD morphology remains highly significant - demonstrating the phenotype is independent of body size and not a developmental delay.

      - Revised title. As suggested by Recommendations for the authors comment #6, we have changed the title to: "A quantitative in vivo CRISPR-imaging platform identifies regulators of hyperplastic and hypertrophic adipose morphology in zebrafish"

      - Extensive code and analysis availability. We now provide all code and extensive analysis pipelines in interactive HTML documents at https://github.com/jeminchin/zebrafish_adipose_morphology_screen

      Joint Public Review:

      We thank the reviewers for their thoughtful assessment of our work and their recognition of the rigorous experimental design, statistical approaches, and the utility of both the identified genes and screening pipeline for the field. We address their concerns below.

      Weakness:

      Distinguishing developmental patterning from adipose tissue plasticity

      We appreciate this important distinction and agree that separating developmental from adaptive effects is a key challenge in the field. We would like to make several points in response:

      First, we acknowledge this limitation in our discussion and have now expanded this section to more explicitly address the interpretive boundaries of our approach. Our screening platform was intentionally designed to capture the outcome of genetic perturbation across development and early adaptation, as these processes are inherently intertwined during the establishment of adipose tissue.

      Second, regarding the suggested analysis of lipid droplet size along the AP axis in response to HFD: we have now performed this analysis and include it as new Fig. 6 and new Supplemental Fig. 8 & 9. These data validate our initial conclusions and reveal striking spatiotemporal dynamics, including profoundly blunted HFD responses in foxp1b mutants (68% reduction) and loss of spatial gradients in foxp1a mutants. Further, these data provide additional resolution on regional responses to dietary challenge.

      Third, we note that our stable mutant validation experiments (Figure 6) do begin to disentangle these effects by examining both baseline and HFD-challenged conditions in animals with constitutive genetic loss. However, we agree that definitive separation would require temporally controlled genetic manipulation, which we now acknowledge as an important future direction.

      Lack of tissue-specific manipulations

      We agree that tissue-specific approaches would strengthen mechanistic conclusions and have acknowledged this limitation in our revised discussion. The current study was designed as a discovery-focused screen to identify candidate regulators, with the understanding that mechanistic dissection would require follow-up studies employing tissue-specific tools.

      We note that adipocyte-specific Cre/lox or Gal4-UAS approaches in zebrafish are feasible and represent an important next phase of investigation for the most promising candidates identified here, rather than a requirement for the current screening study. We have added text explicitly framing our findings as establishing genetic associations that warrant future tissue-autonomous investigation.

      Recommendations for the authors: 

      (1) Analysis: In Figure 6, the authors state that foxp1b mutants "fail to undergo further hypertrophic remodeling in response to a high-fat diet (HFD)." Foxp1b mutant juveniles are already hypertrophic before the high-fat diet. After a high-fat diet, these mutants reach mean lipid droplet diameters similar to WT, approximately 65 µm, which the authors state earlier in the manuscript are "a potential upper limit of LD growth at this developmental stage." The authors should perform additional analysis of their existing data. Specifically, determine lipid droplet size by binning the AP axis as shown in Figure 3. The rationale is that lipid droplet size differences in response to HFD may be more evident when not considering the anterior populations of lipid droplets that have already reached maximum steady state size for this juvenile stage. This would not require any new experiments, just reanalyzing data similar to how they did in Figure 3.

      We thank the reviewer for this excellent suggestion. We have performed the requested spatial analysis by binning the AP axis into 200 µm strata (Figure 3 approach). These data can be found in new Fig. 6H-M, and new Supplemental Figs 8 & 9. This new analysis verifies our initial conclusions, and also reveals several very interesting spatiotemporal dynamics

      (i) Baseline hypertrophy in foxp1b mutants across AP strata

      In support of our initial conclusion that foxp1b mutants have larger LDs at baseline, the spatial analysis confirms that on a control diet (baseline), foxp1b mutants have significantly larger LDs than WT across strata 1-5 (new Fig. 6I), ranging from +22.2 µm larger in strata 1 to +17.8 µm larger in strata 5 (all FDR-adjusted p < 0.05, linear mixed effects model). Extended analysis across all 15 strata is shown in Supplemental Figs. 8 & 9. By contrast, and also in support of our initial conclusion, foxp1a mutants showed no baseline hypertrophy on control diet (all strata p > 0.10, Supplemental Fig. 8).

      (ii) foxp1b mutants show a profoundly blunted hypertrophic response to HFD

      Using paired analysis (same fish on both control diet and after 14 days of high-fat diet) with a linear mixed effects model, we quantified the effect of HFD across all strata:

      (A) Anterior/oldest strata (1-6): WT + HFD increases LD diameter by +25.1-28.1 µm (+52-58%, p < 0.0001). Whereas, foxp1b mutants + HFD only increase LD diameter by +7.5-11.7 µm (+12-19%, p < 0.003). Therefore, in the oldest/most anterior regions, containing the largest LDs, the hypertrophic response of foxp1b mutants to HFD is ~57% weaker than WTs.

      (B) Posterior/newer strata (7-15): WT + HFD undergo significant increases in LD diameter of +17.7-23.7 µm (p < 0.024). However, in foxp1b mutants there is no significant hypertrophic response at all (p > 0.068), and hypertrophic effect sizes decline from +6.8 µm (stratum 7) to +0.4 µm (stratum 15).

      (C) Overall effect: Averaged across all strata, WT + HFD LDs show +24.4 µm increase (p < 0.0001), whereas foxp1b mutant LDs only show a +7.7 µm increase with HFD (p = 0.020). Therefore, foxp1b mutants show a 68% reduction in hypertrophic growth in response to HFD compared to WT (Fig. 6K).

      The consequence of these spatial dynamics is that WT SAT LDs - which start 22 µm smaller than foxp1b mutants on a control diet - undergo massive hypertrophy across all regions/strata in response to a HFD. Meanwhile, foxp1b mutants - starting larger than in WTs - show only a modest, spatially restricted response. This results in a convergence in LD size in early/anterior strata, but WT LDs actually surpass foxp1b mutant sizes in late/posterior strata (strata 14-15: +WT 14.7 µm larger on HFD, p = 0.028; Supplemental Figs. 8 & 9).

      By contrast, foxp1a mutants retain the capacity for HFD-induced hypertrophy but show a ~35% weaker response than WT (p = 0.023) – significantly less severe than the 68% reduction in foxp1b mutants. Interestingly, foxp1a mutants after HFD show a reduction in the AP gradation of LD size observed in WT and foxp1b mutants (uniform +14.4 mm across all strata versus WT range of +26.4 mm anteriorly to +16.6 mm posteriorly), suggesting that foxp1a may regulate spatial heterogeneity in adaptive responses to HFD (Fig. 6L-M).

      (iii) Developmental ceiling or impaired adaptive capacity?

      The reviewer raises an important question about whether anterior adipose LDs have reached a "developmental ceiling." After conducting the spatial analysis suggested by the Reviewer, we now believe several lines of evidence support an intrinsic defect in HFD-induced hypertrophy in foxp1b mutants, rather than reaching a developmentally determined limit:

      First, foxp1b mutants show reduced responses across ALL strata, not just anterior regions. The attenuation extends throughout the entire AP axis (57% reduction in strata 1-6, complete loss of response in strata 7-15). If anterior adipocytes had simply reached a size ceiling, we would expect normal responses in posterior regions where cells are smaller - but we don't observe this.

      Second, in posterior/newer regions of SAT (strata 14-15) the hypertrophic response to HFD in foxp1b is so limited that WT LDs actually become larger than foxp1b mutant LDs (+14.7 mm larger, p = 0.028; Supplemental Fig. 9). This demonstrates that these LD sizes are not developmentally limiting and argues for intrinsic hypertrophic defects in response to HFD.

      Third, foxp1a mutants provide an important control. These mutants show no baseline hypertrophy (all strata p > 0.10) yet still exhibit blunted hypertrophic responses to HFD (~35% reduction, p = 0.023), proving that reduced HFD responses can occur independently of baseline hypertrophy.

      We have updated the Results and Discussion to reflect these new conclusions. Methods have been updated to include the spatial analysis approach.

      (2) Adipose morphogenesis in WT is a function of standard length, as shown by the authors. At juvenile stages, foxp1 mutants are both smaller and have reduced adipocyte coverage, while adults show normal body length and very subtle adipose phenotypes. Can the authors demonstrate that the observed defects in foxp1 mutant juveniles are bona fide phenotypes rather than a developmental delay?

      We thank the reviewer for this key point. We agree it is critical to distinguish true foxp1b-dependent phenotypes from potential developmental delay. Importantly, our data strongly argue against a simple developmental delay. We show that LD size scales with body size in Fig. 3G, with smaller zebrafish having smaller LDs and larger zebrafish having larger LDs. In contrast to a developmental delay, our data show that foxp1b single and foxp1a;foxp1b double mutants are smaller (reduced standard length) but have larger LDs (Fig. 6E,G). This dissociation between body size and LD size is the opposite of what would be expected from developmental delay.

      To account for the body size difference, we have now normalised adipose area to standard length (Fig. 6F). With this normalisation, foxp1b single mutants show only a non-significant trend toward decreased adiposity, whereas foxp1a;foxp1b double mutants remain significantly reduced. This represents a change from our original analysis and we have updated the text accordingly. Critically, despite normalised adipose area showing only a trend in foxp1b singles, the hypertrophic LD morphology remains highly significant (Fig. 6G), demonstrating that the morphological phenotype is robust and independent of overall body size.

      We have clarified this interpretation in the Results and Discussion.

      (3) What was the rationale for selecting one amongst paralogous genes for the screen? For example, why did the authors choose ptenb rather than ptena?

      (4) Point 3 is particularly relevant for the final six genes that resulted in adipose phenotypes. Why did the authors choose not to target both paralogs, given that multi-plexed F0 CRISPR targeting is feasible in zebrafish (PMID: 29974860).

      We answer Points 3 & 4 together here.

      We used the DIOPT (DRSC Integrative Ortholog Prediction Tool) orthology tool to identify the zebrafish paralogue with the highest orthology score to each human gene. This tool integrates predictions from 20 orthology databases to generate a composite score. We selected the paralogue with the highest DIOPT score for each gene. For example, we selected ptenb over ptena because it showed a higher predicted orthology to human PTEN.

      We acknowledge this approach has important limitations, including orthology scores not necessarily predicting functional equivalence (ie, the "most orthologous" paralogue may not be the one with the most relevant adipose tissue function in zebrafish). We acknowledge that this may mean we have missed genuine hits - testing only one paralogue means we could fail to identify genes where the "less orthologous" paralogue has the relevant adipose function.

      Our findings with Foxp1 paralogues both validate this approach and reveal its limitations. The higher-scoring paralogue foxp1b (DIOPT score = 13/19) showed the more severe phenotype, validating our prioritisation. However, the lower-scoring paralogue foxp1a (DIOPT score = 5/19), which we tested subsequently, showed a distinct but significant phenotype (altered spatial patterning) – a finding that would have been missed had we not pursued secondary validation.

      For future screens where comprehensive hit identification is the goal, multiplexed targeting of all paralogues would be valuable, though this may complicate interpretation of paralogue-specific phenotypes. We have discussed this in the Discussion.

      (5) General framework and limitations: The analysis platform presented in the manuscript cannot separate the developmental effects from adipose tissue plasticity/remodeling. Potential approaches that may help address this concern include: (a) establishing a baseline model to illustrate how WT fish respond to high-fat diet (HFD); (b) showing how mutants with hyperplasticity (opposite effects of foxp1 mutants) respond to HFD; (c) examining whether foxp1 gene expression level changes in response to HFD. However, these approaches (especially a and b) would require extensive experimental work and may be beyond the scope of this study. Without further evidence or data support of adipose tissue plasticity and remodeling, the author may want to emphasize in the background and discussion sections how adipose tissue development may affect plasticity and adaptation, and soften the tone of how genes may directly regulate adipose tissue plasticity and adaptation.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment about the relationship between adipose development and plasticity/remodelling. We agree this is an important issue as we are looking in juvenile fish that are still growing. Therefore, when we feed them HFD and see LDs get bigger – is this diet-induced remodelling or just accelerated normal development (ie, growth that would happen anyway, but occurring faster due to more nutrients)?

      To address the reviewer's specific suggestions:

      (A) Baseline model of WT HFD response: We have now performed detailed spatial analysis of WT responses to HFD (new Fig 6H-M, Supplemental Figs. 8 & 9). This analysis establishes a comprehensive baseline for hypertrophic responses to HFD in developing adipose tissue. In summary, WT fish show robust, statistically significant and spatially-graded hypertrophic responses to HFD across the entire AP axis, with responses ranging from +28.1 mm anteriorly to +17.7 mm posteriorly.

      We agree with the Reviewer that separating developmental from adaptive processes in growing juvenile fish is challenging. Importantly, we believe foxp1a mutants provide compelling genetic evidence that we are studying adaptive responses rather than purely developmental processes. foxp1a mutants have normal baseline LD sizes on control diet (demonstrating foxp1a is not required for developmental adipose expansion), yet when challenged with HFD show significantly reduced hypertrophic expansion and reduction of spatial gradient. This genetic dissociation strongly argues we are observing adaptive capacity rather than developmental growth rate.

      (B) Hyperplastic mutants:

      We agree that analysis of hyperplastic mutants would provide valuable complementary information about tissue remodelling capacity. However, as the reviewer anticipated, this would require: (1) generating stable lines of the appropriate hyperplastic mutants, (2) conducting paired HFD feeding studies, (3) performing spatial morphometric analysis comparable to our foxp1 studies, and (4) potentially distinguishing hyperplastic vs hypertrophic contributions to expansion. We agree this constitutes substantial additional experimental work beyond the scope of the current manuscript, though it represents an important direction for future studies.

      (C) foxp1 expression changes in HFD:

      Unfortunately, we do not have SAT samples from HFD-treated fish preserved for RNA analysis, and therefore cannot assess whether foxp1 expression levels change in response to dietary challenge. This would be valuable for future studies to determine whether foxp1 genes are dynamically regulated during metabolic adaptation or function as constitutive regulators of adaptive capacity.

      Following the Reviewer's guidance, we have revised throughout the manuscript to more carefully distinguish developmental patterning from metabolic adaptation.

      (6) Title: In the absence of experimental results that can distinguish between developmental effects from adipose tissue plasticity/remodeling, such as those mentioned above, the manuscript title is not accurate and should therefore be revised to be something like "hyperplastic and hypertrophic adipose morphology."

      We have now altered the title as the Reviewer suggested to “A quantitative in vivo CRISPR-imaging platform identifies regulators of hyperplastic and hypertrophic adipose morphology in zebrafish”

      Minor:

      (7) In mice studies, deleting foxp1b in adipose tissue protects mice from diet-induced obesity, while overexpressing foxp1b in adipose tissue promotes diet-induced obesity (Liu et al., Nature Communication, 2019). These overall phenotypes and foxp1b-mediated effects appear to be contradictory to what is observed in the zebrafish model. Can the authors also provide more evidence/discussion on why such a difference occurs comparing zebrafish and mice models?

      We thank the reviewer for this important comparison. We believe the apparent contradictions reflect (1) differences in adipose tissue thermogenic capacity - between species possibly, but also between functionally distinct depots and (2) whole-organism versus tissue-specific experimental approaches.

      (1) Different adipose tissue biology: browning-prone vs browning-resistant adipose

      Liu et al. (2019, PMID: 31699980) demonstrated that adipose-specific deletion of Foxp1 in mice increases thermogenesis and browning of SAT, with protection from diet-induced obesity (DIO) and improved insulin sensitivity. Conversely, Foxp1 overexpression impaired adaptive thermogenesis and promoted DIO. Mechanistically, Foxp1 directly represses β3-adrenergic receptor transcription, thereby inhibiting the thermogenic program. Strikingly, mouse Foxp1-deleted adipocytes displayed smaller, multilocular lipid droplets characteristic of brown/beige adipocytes.

      These morphological outcomes initially appear opposite to our zebrafish findings: mouse Foxp1 mutants have smaller adipocytes (due to browning), while zebrafish foxp1b mutants have larger lipid droplets (hypertrophy). We believe this fundamental difference may reflect the propensity of adipose tissue to undergo adaptive thermogenesis.

      While it was recently discovered that zebrafish possess thermogenic epicardial adipose tissue (PMID: 38507414), in general zebrafish adipose is not considered thermogenic, and zebrafish as ectotherms are thought to lack adaptive thermogenesis for thermoregulation. The exact thermogenic potential of zebrafish adipose remains to be fully characterised, but potential differences in thermogenic capacity between mouse and zebrafish adipose may help explain the distinct phenotypic outcomes.

      Importantly, Liu et al. studied mouse inguinal subcutaneous WAT - the depot most prone to browning in rodents. It remains unclear what role Foxp1 plays in browning-resistant mammalian WAT depots, where thermogenic conversion does not readily occur. In such depots, Foxp1 loss might produce phenotypes more similar to our zebrafish findings - dysregulated white adipose function without browning.

      The above hypothesis suggest that browning responses may mask other roles for Foxp1 in WAT. Interestingly, although not quantified in the paper, Liu et al.’s Foxp1 overexpression model (Ap2-Foxp1) appeared to reduce adipocyte size despite suppressing Ucp1 expression and reducing lipolysis. These data suggest more complex roles and indicate that Foxp1’s control of adipocyte size might extend beyond simply regulating thermogenesis and may involve coordinating the balance between hyperplastic versus hypertrophic expansion.

      Furthermore, human subcutaneous WAT is not as prone to browning as mouse inguinal WAT. Human browning occurs primarily in specialised depots (e.g. supraclavicular, deep neck), while the majority of human adipose tissue represents constitutive white adipose with limited thermogenic capacity. Therefore, it remains an open question whether FOXP1's primary physiological role in humans relates to thermogenesis regulation (in specialised depots) or white adipose metabolic control (in the majority of adipose tissue). Zebrafish findings examining constitutive WAT function (admittedly the lack of adaptive thermogenesis in zebrafish is presumed at this stage) may be more relevant to human adipose than initially appear.

      (2) Whole-organism vs tissue-specific effects on metabolic health

      A second apparent contradiction concerns metabolic outcomes: mouse adipose-specific Foxp1 deletion improves metabolic health (Liu et al.), whereas our zebrafish whole-organism foxp1b mutants display metabolic dysfunction (baseline hypertrophy, impaired HFD response, hyperglycaemia and fatty liver). We believe this discrepancy reflects comparison of whole-animal mutants (zebrafish) to tissue-specific deletions (mouse), rather than opposite adipose tissue functions.

      Critically, Foxp1 has established roles in hepatic glucose metabolism. Zou et al. (PMID: 26504089) demonstrated that hepatic Foxp1 inhibits expression of gluconeogenesis genes and decreases hepatic glucose production and fasting blood glucose by competing with Foxo1 for binding of insulin responsive gluconeogenic genes. In line with these observations, we observe fatty liver and hyperglycaemia in foxp1a;foxp1b double mutant zebrafish (data not shown), suggesting that the metabolic dysfunction in our whole-animal mutants may be driven primarily by hepatic Foxp1 loss rather than adipose-specific effects.

      We have expanded on the points raised here in the Discussion.

      (8) Line 522-524: "The major phenotype in foxp1a mutants was impaired adipose expansion following HFD, suggesting failure to respond to diet-induced stress signals". In the presented Figure 6j, foxp1a mutant expands adipose LD size following HFD, similar to the control, which is contradictory to the statement above. Please clarify.

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting this apparent inconsistency and apologise for imprecise wording. These measurements are actually consistent but refer to different scales of analysis.

      Tissue level (Supplementary Fig. 7): foxp1a mutants show significantly reduced total adipose expansion (based on whole-animal Nile Red images) compared to wild-type fish on HFD—this is what we refer to as "impaired adipose expansion."

      Cellular level (Fig. 6L-M): At the individual adipocyte level, foxp1a mutants show statistically significant increases in LD diameter following HFD. However, the magnitude is reduced by ~35% compared to wild-type (mutants: +14.4 µm; WT: +22.2 µm; p = 0.023).

      We have revised the text to more precisely state "reduced adipose expansion" rather than "impaired expansion" to avoid implying complete failure to respond.

    1. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Mutations in CDHR1, the human gene encoding an atypical cadherin-related protein expressed in photoreceptors, are thought to cause cone-rod dystrophy (CRD). However, the pathogenesis leading to this disease is unknown. Previous work has led to the hypothesis that CDHR1 is part of a cadherin-based junction that facilitates the development of new membranous discs at the base of the photoreceptor outer segments, without which photoreceptors malfunction and ultimately degenerate. CDHR1 is hypothesized to bind to a transmembrane partner to accomplish this function, but the putative partner protein has yet to be identified.

      The manuscript by Patel et al.makes an important contribution toward improving our understanding of the cellular and molecular basis of CDHR1-associated CRD. Using gene editing, they generate a loss of function mutation in the zebrafish cdhr1a gene, an ortholog of human CDHR1, and show that this novel mutant model has a retinal dystrophy phenotype, specifically related to defective growth and organization of photoreceptor outer segments (OS) and calyceal processes (CP). This phenotype seems to be progressive with age. Importantly, Patel et al, present intriguing evidence that pcdh15b, also known for causing retinal dystrophy in previous Xenopus and zebrafish loss of function studies, is the putative cdhr1a partner protein mediating the function of the junctional complex that regulates photoreceptor OS growth and stability.

      This research is significant in that it:

      (1) Provides evidence for a progressive, dystrophic photoreceptor phenotype in the cdhr1a mutant and, therefore, effectively models human CRD; and

      (2) Identifies pcdh15b as the putative, and long sought after, binding partner for cdhr1a, further supporting the theory of a cadherin-based junction complex that facilitates OS disc biogenesis.

      Nonetheless, the study has several shortcomings in methodology, analysis, and conceptual insight, which limits its overall impact.

      Below I outline several issues that the authors should address to strengthen their findings.

      Major comments:

      (1) Co-localization of cdhr1a and pcdh15b proteins

      The model proposed by the authors is that the interaction of cdhr1a and pcdh15b occurs in trans as a heterodimer. In cochlear hair cells, PCDH15 and CDHR23 are proposed to interact first as dimers in cis and then as heteromeric complexes in trans. This was not shown here for cdhr1a and pcdh15b, but it is a plausible configuration, as are single heteromeric dimers or homodimers. Regardless, this model depends on the differential compartmental expression of the cdhr1a and pcdh15b proteins. Data in Figure 1 show convincing evidence that these two proteins can, at least in some cases, be distributed along the length of photoreceptor membranes that are juxtaposed, as would be the case for OS and CP. If pcdh15b is predominantly expressed in CPs, whereas cdhr1a is predominantly expressed in OS, then this should be confirmed with actin double labeling with cdhr1a and pcdh15b since the apicobasal oriented (vertical) CPs would express actin in this same orientation but not in the OS. This would help to clarify whether cdhr1a and pcdh15b can be trafficked to both OS and CP compartments or whether they are mutually exclusive.

      First let me thank the reviewer for taking the time to comprehensively evaluate our work and provide constructive criticism which will improve the quality of our final version.

      To address this issue, we are completed imaging of actin/cdhr1a and actin/pcdh15b using SIM in both transverse and axial sections (Fig 1C-H). Additionally, we have recently established an immuno-gold-TEM protocol and showcase co-labeling of cdhr1a and pcdh15b at TEM resolution along the CP (Fig 1I).

      Photoreceptor heterogeneity goes beyond the cone versus rod subtypes discussed here and it is known that in zebrafish, CP morphology is distinct in different cone subtypes as well as cone versus rod. It would be important to know which specific photoreceptor subtypes are shown in zebrafish (Figures 1A-C) and the non-fish species depicted in Figures 1E-L. Also, a larger field of view of the staining patterns for Figures 1E-L would be a helpful comparison (could be added as a supplementary figure).

      The revised manuscript includes labels for the location of different cone subtypes in figure 1. All of the images showcasing CHDR1 localization across species concentrate on the PNA positive R/G cones. Larger fields of view were not collected as we prioritized the highest resolution possible and therefore collected small fields of view.

      (2) Cdhr1a function in cell culture

      The authors should explain the multiple bands in the anti-FLAG blots. Also, it would be interesting to confirm that the cdhr1a D173 mutant prevents the IP interaction with pcdh15b as well as the additive effects in aggregate assays of Figure 2.

      The multiple bands on the WB is like our previous results (Piedade 2020), which we believe arise due to ubiquitination and proteolytic cleavage of cdhr1a. We expect the D173 mutation to result in a complete absence of cdhr1a polypeptide, based on the lack of in situ signal in our WISH studies.

      Is it possible that the cultured cells undergo proliferation in the aggregation assays shown in Figure 2? Cells might differentially proliferate as clusters form in rotating cultures. A simple assay for cell proliferation under the different transfection conditions showing no differences would address this issue and lend further support to the proposed specific changes to cell adhesion as a readout of this assay.

      This is a possibility; however we did not use rotating cultures, this was a monolayer culture. We did not observe any differences in total cell number between the differing transfections. As such, we do not feel proliferation explains the aggregation of K562 cells.

      Also, the authors report that the number of clusters was normalized to the field of view, but this was not defined. Were the n values different fields of view from one transfection experiment, or were they different fields of view from separate transfection experiments? More details and clarification are needed.

      This will be clarified in the revised manuscript, in short we replicated this experiment 3 times, quantifying 5 different fields of view in each replicate.

      (3) Methodological issues in quantification and statistical analyses

      Were all the OS and CP lengths counted in the observation region or just a sample within the region? If the latter, what were the sampling criteria? For CPs, it seems that the length was an average estimate based on all CPs observed surrounding one cone or one-rod cell. Is this correct? Again, if sampled, how was this implemented? In Fig 4M', the cdhr1a-/- ROS mostly looks curvilinear. Did the measurements account for this, or were they straight linear dimension measurements from base to tip of the OS as depicted in Fig 5A-E? A clearer explanation of the OS and CP length quantification methodology is required.

      The revised manuscript will clearly outline measurement methods. In short, we measured every CP/OS in the imaged regions. We did not average CPs/cell, we simply included all CP measurements in our analysis. All our CP measurements (actin or cdhr1a or pcdh15), were measured in the presence of a counter stain, WGA, prph2, gnb1 or PNA to ensure proper measurements (landmark) and association with proper cell type. Our new figure 7 now includes cone OS counter staining to better highlight the OS.

      All measurements were taken as best as possible to reflect a straight linear dimension for consistency.

      How were cone and rod photoreceptor cell counts performed? The legend in Figure 4 states that they again counted cells in the observation region, but no details were provided. For example, were cones and rods counted as an absolute number of cells in the observation region (e.g., number of cones per defined area) or relative to total (DAPI+) cell nuclei in the region? Changes in cell density in the mutant (smaller eye or thinner ONL) might affect this quantification so it would be important to know how cell quantification was normalized.

      The revised manuscript will clearly outline measurement methods. In short, rod and cone cell counts were based on the number of outer segments that were observed in the imaging region and previously measured for length. We did not observe any eye size differences in our mutant fish.

      In Figure 6I, K, measuring the length of the signal seems problematic. The dimension of staining is not always in the apicobasal (vertical) orientation. It might be more accurate to measure the cdhr1a expression domain relative to the OS (since the length of the OS is already reduced in the mutants). Another possible approach could be to measure the intensity of cdhr1 staining relative to the intensity within a Prph2 expression domain in each group. The authors should provide complementary evidence to support their conclusion.

      The revised manuscript will clearly outline measurement methods. In short, all of our CP measurements (actin or cdhr1a or pcdh15), were done in the presence of a counter stain, WGA, prph2, gnb1 or PNA to ensure proper measurements and association with proper cell type.

      A better description of the statistical methodology is required. For example, the authors state that "each of the data points has an n of 5+ individuals." This is confusing and could indicate that in Figure 4F alone there were ~5000 individuals assayed (~100 data points per treatment group x n=5 individuals per data point x 10 treatment groups). I don't think that is what the authors intended. It would be clearer if the authors stated how many OS, CP, or cells were counted in their observation region averaged per individual and then provided the n value of individuals used per treatment group (controls and mutants), on which the statistical analyses should be based.

      This has been addressed in the revised manuscript. In short, we had an n=5 (individual fish) analyzed for each genotype/time point.

      There are hundreds of data points in the separate treatment groups shown in several of the graphs. It would not be correct to perform the ANOVA on the separate OS or CP length measurements alone as this will bias the estimates since they are not all independent samples. For example, in Figure 6H, 5dpf pcdh15b+/- have shorter CPs compared to WT but pcdh15b-/- have longer compared to WT. This could be an artifact of the analysis. Moreover, the authors should clarify in the Methods section which ANOVA post hoc tests were used to control for multiple pairwise comparisons.

      We have re-analyzed the data using multiple pairwise comparison ANOVA with post hoc tests (Tukey test). This new analysis did not significantly alter the statistical significance outcome of the study.

      (4) Cdhr1a function in photoreceptors

      The Cdhr1a IHC staining in 5dpf WT larvae in Figure 3E appears different from the cdhr1a IHC staining in 5dpf WT larvae in Figure 1A or Figure 6I. Perhaps this is just the choice of image. Can the authors comment or provide a more representative image?

      The image in figure 3E was captured using a previous non antigen retrieval protocol which limits the resolution of the cdhr1a signal along the CP. In the revised manuscript we have included an image that better represents cdhr1a staining in the WT and mutant.

      The authors show that pcdh15b localization after 5dpf mirrored the disorganization of the CP observed with actin staining. They also show in Figure 5O that at 180dpf, very little pcdh15b signal remains. They suggest based on this data that total degradation of CPs has occurred in the cdhr1a-/- photoreceptors by this time. However, although reduced in length, COS and cone CPs are still present at 180dpf (Figure 5E, E'). Thus, contrary to the authors' general conclusion, it is possible that the localization, trafficking, and/or turnover of pcdh15b is maintained through a cdhr1a-dependent mechanism, irrespective of the degree to which CPs are maintained. The experiments presented here do not clearly distinguish between a requirement for maintenance of localization versus a secondary loss of localization due to defective CPs.

      We agree, this point has been addressed in our revised manuscript. Additionally, we have also included data from 1 and 2 year old samples.

      (5) Conceptual insights

      The authors claim that cdhr1a and pcdh15b double mutants have synergistic OS and CP phenotypes. I think this interpretation should be revisited.

      First, assuming the model of cdhr1a-pcdh15b interaction in trans is correct, the authors have not adequately explained the logic of why disrupting one side of this interaction in a single mutant would not give the same severity of phenotype as disrupting both sides of this interaction in a double mutant.

      Second, and perhaps more critically, at 10dpf the OS and CP lengths in cdhr1a-/- mutants (Figure 7J, T) are significantly increased compared to WT. In contrast, there are no significant differences in these measurements in the pcdh15b-/- mutants. Yet in double homozygous mutants, there is a significant reduction of ~50% in these measurements compared to WT. A synergistic phenotype would imply that each mutant causes a change in the same direction and that the magnitude of this change is beyond additive in the double mutants (but still in the same direction). Instead, I would argue that the data presented in Figure 7 suggest that there might be a functionally antagonistic interaction between cdhr1a and pcdh15b with respect to OS and CP growth at 10dpf.

      If these proteins physically interacted in vivo, it would appear that the interaction is complex and that this interaction underlies both OS growth-promoting and growth-restraining (stabilizing) mechanisms working in concert. Perhaps separate homodimers or heterodimers subserve distinct CP-OS functional interactions. This might explain the age-dependent differences in mutant CP and OS length phenotypes if these mechanisms are temporally dynamic or exhibit distinct OS growth versus maintenance phases. Regardless of my speculations, the model presented by the authors appears to be too simplistic to explain the data.

      We agree with the reviewer, as such we have revised the discussion in our revised manuscript.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The goal of this study was to develop a model for CDHR1-based Con-rod dystrophy and study the role of this cadherin in cone photoreceptors. Using genetic manipulation, a cell binding assay, and high-resolution microscopy the authors find that like rods, cones localize CDHR1 to the lateral edge of outer segment (OS) discs and closely oppose PCDH15b which is known to localize to calyceal processes (CPs). Ectopic expression of CDHR1 and PCDH15b in K652 cells indicates these cadherins promote cell aggregation as heterophilic interactants, but not through homophilic binding. This data suggests a model where CDHR1 and PCDH15b link OS and CPs and potentially stabilize cone photoreceptor structure. Mutation analysis of each cadherin results in cone structural defects at late larval stages. While pcdh15b homozygous mutants are lethal, cdhr1 mutants are viable and subsequently show photoreceptor degeneration by 3-6 months.

      Strengths:

      A major strength of this research is the development of an animal model to study the cone-specific phenotypes associated with CDHR1-based CRD. The data supporting CDHR1 (OS) and PCDH15 (CP) binding is also a strength, although this interaction could be better characterized in future studies. The quality of the high-resolution imaging (at the light and EM levels) is outstanding. In general, the results support the conclusions of the authors.

      Weaknesses:

      While the cellular phenotyping is strong, the functional consequences of CDHR1 disruption are not addressed. While this is not the focus of the investigation, such analysis would raise the impact of the study overall. This is particularly important given some of the small changes observed in OS and CP structure. While statistically significant, are the subtle changes biologically significant? Examples include cone OS length (Figures 4F, 6E) as well as other morphometric data (Figure 7I in particular). Related, for quantitative data and analysis throughout the manuscript, more information regarding the number of fish/eyes analyzed as well as cells per sample would provide confidence in the rigor. The authors should also note whether the analysis was done in an automated and/or masked manner.

      First let me thank the reviewer for taking the time to comprehensively evaluate our work and provide constructive criticism which will improve the quality of our final version.

      The revised manuscript outlines both methods and statistics used for quantitation of our data. (please see comments from reviewer 1). While we do not include direct evidence of the mechanism of CDHR1 function, we do propose that its role is important in anchoring the CP and the OS, particularly in the cones, while in rods it may serve to regulate the release of newly formed disks (as previously proposed in mice). We do plan to test both of these hypothesis directly, however, that will be the basis of our future studies.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript by Patel et al investigates the hypothesis that CDHR1a on photoreceptor outer segments is the binding partner for PCDH15 on the calyceal processes, and the absence of either adhesion molecule results in separation between the two structures, eventually leading to degeneration. PCDH15 mutations cause Usher syndrome, a disease of combined hearing and vision loss. In the ear, PCDH15 binds CDH23 to form tip links between stereocilia. The vision loss is less understood. Previous work suggested PCDH15 is localized to the calyceal processes, but the expression of CDH23 is inconsistent between species. Patel et al suggest that CDHR1a (formerly PCDH21) fulfills the role of CDH23 in the retina.

      The experiments are mainly performed using the zebrafish model system. Expression of Pcdh15b and Cdhr1a protein is shown in the photoreceptor layer through standard confocal and structured illumination microscopy. The two proteins co-IP and can induce aggregation in vitro. Loss of either Cdhr1a or Pcdh15, or both, results in degeneration of photoreceptor outer segments over time, with cones affected primarily.

      The idea of the study is logical given the photoreceptor diseases caused by mutations in either gene, the comparisons to stereocilia tip links, and the protein localization near the outer segments. The work here demonstrates that the two proteins interact in vitro and are both required for ongoing outer segment maintenance. The major novelty of this paper would be the demonstration that Pcdh15 localized to calyceal processes interacts with Cdhr1a on the outer segment, thereby connecting the two structures. Unfortunately, the data presented are inadequate proof of this model.

      Strengths:

      The in vitro data to support the ability of Pcdh15b and Cdhr1a to bind is well done. The use of pcdh15b and cdhr1a single and double mutants is also a strength of the study, especially being that this would be the first characterization of a zebrafish cdhr1a mutant.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The imaging data in Figure 1 is insufficient to show the specific localization of Pcdh15 to calyceal processes or Cdhr1a to the outer segment membrane. The addition of actin co-labelling with Pcdh15/Cdhr1a would be a good start, as would axial sections. The division into rod and cone-specific imaging panels is confusing because the two cell types are in close physical proximity at 5 dpf, but the cone Cdhr1a expression is somehow missing in the rod images. The SIM data appear to be disrupted by chromatic aberration but also have no context. In the zebrafish image, the lines of Pcdh15/Cdhr1a expression would be 40-50 um in length if the scale bar is correct, which is much longer than the outer segments at this stage and therefore hard to explain.

      First let me thank the reviewer for taking the time to comprehensively evaluate our work and provide constructive criticism which will improve the quality of our final version.

      To address this issue, we have added images of actin/cdhr1a and actin/pcdh15b using SIM in both transverse and axial sections. Additionally, we have established an immuno-gold-TEM protocol and provide data showcasing co-labeling of cdhr1a and pcdh15b at TEM resolution.

      (2) Figure 3E staining of Cdhr1a looks very different from the staining in Figure 1. It is unclear what the authors are proposing as to the localization of Cdhr1a. In the lab's previous paper, they describe Cdhr1a as being associated with the connecting cilium and nascent OS discs, and fail to address how that reconciles with the new model of mediating CP-OS interaction. And whether Cdhr1a localizes to discrete domains on the disc edges, where it interacts with Pcdh15 on individual calyceal processes.

      The image in figure 3E was captured using a previous non antigen retrieval protocol which limits the resolution of the cdhr1a signal along the CP. In the revised manuscript we include an image that better represents cdhr1a staining in the WT and mutant.

      (3) The authors state "In PRCs, Pcdh15 has been unequivocally shown to be localized in the CPs". However, the immunostaining here does not match the pattern seen in the Miles et al 2021 paper, which used a different antibody. Both showed loss of staining in pcdh15b mutants so unclear how to reconcile the two patterns.

      We agree that our staining appears different, but we attribute this to our antigen retrieval protocol which differed from the Miles et al paper. We also point to the fact that pcdh15b localization has been shown to be similar to our images in other species (monkey and frog). As such, we believe our protocol reveals the proper localization pattern which might be lost/hampered in the procedure used in Miles et al 2021.

      (4) The explanation for the CRISPR targets for cdhr1a and the diagram in Figure 3 does not fit with crRNA sequences or the mutation as shown. The mutation spans from the latter part of exon 5 to the initial portion of exon 6, removing intron 5-6. It should nevertheless be a frameshift mutation but requires proper documentation.

      This was an overlooked error in figure making, we have corrected this typo in the revised manuscript.

      (5) There are complications with the quantification of data. First, the number of fish analyzed for each experiment is not provided, nor is the justification for performing statistics on individual cell measurements rather than using averages for individual fish. Second, all cone subtypes are lumped together for analysis despite their variable sizes. Third, t-tests are inappropriately used for post-hoc analysis of ANOVA calculations.

      As we discussed for reviewer 1 and 2, all methods and quantification/statistics will be clearly described in the revised manuscript.

      (6) Unclear how calyceal process length is being measured. The cone measurements are shown as starting at the external limiting membrane, which is not equivalent to the origin of calyceal processes, and it is uncertain what defines the apical limit given the multiple subtypes of cones. In Figure 5, the lines demonstrating the measurements seem inconsistently placed.

      As we discussed for reviewer 1 and 2, all methods and quantification/statistics will be clearly described in the revised manuscript. We have also clarified that CP measurements were made based on a counterstain for the cone/rod OS so that the actin signal was only CP associated. We have included the counter stain in our revised Figure 7.

      (7) The number of fish analyzed by TEM and the prevalence of the phenotype across cells are not provided. A lower magnification view would provide context. Also, the authors should explain whether or not overgrowth of basal discs was observed, as seen previously in cdhr1-null frogs (Carr et al., 2021).

      The revised manuscript now includes the n number for our TEM samples. We have also added text comparing our results directly to Carr 2021.

      (8) The statement describing the separation between calyceal processes and the outer segment in the mutants is not backed up by the data. TEM or co-labelling of the structures in SIM could be done to provide evidence.

      We have completed both more SIM as well as immuno-gold TEM to support our conclusions, see new Figure 1.

      (9) "Based on work in the murine model and our own observations of rod CPs, we hypothesize that zebrafish rod CPs only extend along the newly forming OS discs and do not provide structural support to the ROS." Unclear how murine work would support that conclusion given the lack of CPs in mice, or what data in the manuscript supports this conclusion.

      In the revised manuscript we have adjusted our discussion to hypothesize that the small length of rod CPs is most likely to represent their interaction with newly forming discs rather than connect with mature discs which are enclosed in the OS.

      (10) The authors state "from the fact that rod CPs are inherently much smaller than cone CPs" without providing a reference. In the manuscript, the measurements do show rod CPs to be shorter, but there are errors in the cone measurements, and it is possible that the RPE pigment is interfering with the rod measurements.

      We have included references where rod CPs have been found to be shorter. We have no doubt that in zebrafish the rod CPs are significantly shorter. All our CP measurements are done with a counter stain for rods and cones to be sure that we are measuring the correct cell type.

      (11) The discussion should include a better comparison of the results with ocular phenotypes in previously generated pcdh15 and cdhr1 mutant animals.

      The revised manuscript has included these points.

      (12) The images in panels B-F of the Supplemental Figure are uncannily similar, possibly even of the same fish at different focal planes.

      We assure the reviewer that each of the images in supplemental figure 1 are distinct and represent different in situ experiments.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) In the second sentence of the Introduction section, the acronym 'PRC' should be defined.

      This has been corrected

      (2) In the Discussion section, it would be useful to comment on differences between the published Xenopus cdhr1-/- OS phenotypes and the published zebrafish pcdh15b-/- OS phenotypes compared to the present zebrafish cdhr1a-/- phenotypes. In the published studies, OS in these mutants demonstrated dysmorphic and overgrown disc membranes compared to the relatively minor disc layering defects shown for cdhr1a-/- in the present study.

      This discussion has been added.

      (3) CDHR1 mutations in patients cause cone-rod dystrophy, but mutations in PCDH15 (Usher 1F) cause rod-cone dystrophy. In the Discussion section, the authors should comment on what might lead to these different phenotypic trajectories in humans in the context of their proposed model.

      We have added to our discussion highlighting that is not possible to assess rod-cone dystrophy in the pcdh15b model as the mutation is lethal by 15dpf, which is still before most rods mature.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      In addition to defining the 'n' for animal and cell numbers (as well as methods of analysis - automated/masked), there are a few additional recommendations for the authors.

      (1) Expression of USH1 genes in larval zebrafish (Figure S1) is not very convincing. SC RNAseq data exists and argues against this cell type restriction.

      Based on extensive experience with WISH we are confident that our interpretation of the data are valid. Furthermore, analysis of the daniocell data base confirms that cdh23, ush1ga, ush1c (harmonin) and myo7aa all have either no expression in photoreceptors or very low levels especially compared to pcdh15b and cdhr1a.

      (2) The model in Figure 1 is great. The coloring was a bit confusing. Cdhr1 and axoneme are both in green, while Pcdh15 and actin are both in red. Can each have its own color?

      Changed pcdh15b color to blue

      (3) Figure 2A: Please explain the multiple bands in some lanes. What do the full blots look like?

      Full blots were uploaded to eLife and do not exhibit any additional bands. The multiple bands are likely due to ubiquitination or proteolytic cleavage of cdhr1a and have been documented in our previous publication (Piedade 2020).

      (4) Is "data not shown" permissible? (lack of compensation of cdh1b in cdh1a mutants) (nonsense-mediated decay of the mutant transcript).

      We have added a supplementary figure showcasing this data.

      (5) Figure 4: Is there a TEM phenotype in discs before 15dpf? One would think there would be...?

      Due to technical limitations, we have not been able to examine disc phenotypes prior to 15dpf.

      (6) Figure 5: How are calyceal processes discriminated from cortical/PM-associated actin? A bonafide calyceal marker seems to be needed. Espin or Myo3, for example.

      We discriminate to identify CPs as actin signal that originates at the base of the OS and travels along the OS. Pcdh15b is a bonafinde CP marker which we show overlaps with actin signal along CPs.

      (7) Figures 5A-J: How is actin staining for CPs discriminating between rod and cones??? Apical - basal level imaging? This could be better clarified.

      CP identification is based on co-stain for either rod or cone Oss

      (8) Figure 6: Het phenotype for pcdh15b+/- (cone OS length and CP length at 5 and 10 dpf) is surprising ... worth discussing. (Figures 6E, H).

      The discussion section has been updated to discuss this finding.

      (9) Last, the authors state "Data not shown" throughout the manuscript. I do not believe this is allowed for the journal.

      This data (cdhr1b expression in cdhr1a mutants as well as cdhr1a WISH in cdhr1a mutants) has been added as supplementary figures.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Major comments are addressed above and the most important is the need for a convincing demonstration of Cdhr1a localization on the outer segment and proximity to Pcdh15b. The SIM could be a powerful tool, but the images provided are impossible to assess without any basis for context. Could a membrane, Prph2, and/or actin label be added? And lower magnification views?

      Minor comments.

      (1) The mention of "short CPs" in rodents is not an accurate description. Particular rodents (e.g. mouse, rat) lack CPs altogether or have a single vestigial structure.

      We have adjusted the text to reflect this point.

      (2) Inconsistent spacing between numbers and units.

      We have corrected these inconsistencies

      (3) Missing references.

      We have added missing references

      (4) Indicate the mean or median for bar graphs.

      The materials and methods section now specifies that all of our graphs depict a mean value

      (5) Unclear how rods are distinguished from cones in the cone analysis if both are labeled with prph2 antibody.

      Rods are physiological separate from cones in zebrafish retina and therefore easily identified by location as well as their distinct pattern of actin staining.

      (6) Red and green should not be used together for microscopy images.

      (7) The diagram in Figure 1D is confusing because of the repeated use of red and green for disparate structures. Also, the location and structure of actin are misrepresented, as is the transition of disc structure during maturation in rods.

      We have adjusted the color of pcdh15b to blue.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors provide a simple yet elegant approach to identifying therapeutic targets that synergize to prevent therapeutic resistance using cell lines, data-independent acquisition proteomics, and bioinformatic analysis. The authors identify several combinations of pharmaceuticals that were able to overcome or prevent therapeutic resistance in culture models of ovarian cancer, a disease with an unmet diagnostic and therapeutic need.

      Strengths:

      The manuscript utilizes state-of-the-art proteomic analysis, entailing data-independent acquisition methods, an approach that maximizes the robustness of identified proteins across cell lines. The authors focus their analysis on several drugs under development for the treatment of ovarian cancer and utilize straightforward thresholds for identifying proteomic adaptations across several drugs on the OVSAHO cell line. The authors utilized three independent and complementary approaches to predicting drug synergy (NetBox, GSEA, and Manual Curation). The drug combination with the most robust synergy across multiple cell lines was the inhibition of MEK and CDK4/6 using PD-0325901+Palbociclib, respectively. Additional combinations, including PARPi (rucaparib) and the fatty acid synthase inhibitor (TVB-2640). Collectively, this study provides important insight and exemplifies a solid approach to identifying drug synergy without large drug library screens.

      Weaknesses:

      The manuscript supports their findings by describing the biological function(s) of targets using referenced literature. While this is valuable, the number of downstream targets for each initial target is extensive, thus, the current work does not attempt to elucidate the mechanism of their drug synergy. Responses to drugs are quantified 72 hours after treatment and exclusively focused on cell viability and protein expression levels. The discovery phase of experimentation was solely performed on the OVSAHO cell line. An additional cell line(s) would increase the impact of how the authors went about identifying synergistic targets using bioinformatics. Ovarian cancer is elusive to treatment as primary cancer will form spheroids within ascites/peritoneal fluids in a state of pseudo-senescence to overcome environmental stress. The current manuscript is executed in 2D culture, which has been demonstrated to deviate from 3D, PDX, and primary tumours in terms of therapeutic resistance (DOI: 10.3390/cancers13164208). Collectively, the manuscript is insufficient in providing additional mechanistic insight beyond the literature, and its interpretation of data is limited to 2D culture until further validated.

      We appreciate your positive remarks on the use of NetBox, GSEA, and human curation for predicting anti-resistance effects of second drugs. Regarding the weaknesses you identified:

      Mechanistic Insight: We agree that our current work interprets findings using prior published knowledge and does not attempt to infer detailed mechanisms of drug resistance of the nominated drug combinations. Our primary goal with this study was to establish a robust, unbiased proteomic and computational pipeline for proposing anti-resistance drug combinations, rather than to fully characterize the downstream molecular effects for each combination or to prove causation. To get closer to mechanistic insight, meaning detailed hypotheses of causative interactions, one would need to investigate anti-resistance effects in other pre-clinical materials as a crucial next step for the most promising combinations identified. This was out of scope for us. We assume the proposed combinations are useful for focussed follow-up in the community.

      Discovery Phase on a Single Cell Line: Our discovery phase was focused solely on the OVSAHO cell line due to its resemblance to surgical ovarian cancer samples. Including additional cell lines in the initial proteomic-response discovery phase plausibly would have enhanced the generalizability. But this was not done due to resource constraints. However, we did perform more extensive validation of the effect of drug combinations on proliferation in several cell lines to explore broader applicability.

      2D Culture Limitations: We are fully aware of the limitations of 2D cell culture models, especially in the context of ovarian cancer, where in clinical reality interactions with the microenvironment and other effects can have significant roles in therapeutic resistance. Adn we recognize that in lab experiments 2D culture does not fully recapitulate the complexities of 3D tumors, PDX models, or primary patient tumors. We have added citations to the relevant literature (including the reference you provided), and have emphasized in the Discussion that our findings serve as a strong foundation for future experimental tests (validation) in more physiologically relevant experimental model systems.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Franz and colleagues combined proteomics analysis of OVSAHO cell lines treated with 6 individual drugs. The quantitative proteomics data were then used for computational analysis to identify candidates/modules that could be used to predict combination treatments for specific drugs.

      Strengths:

      The authors present solid proteomics data and computational analysis to effectively repeat at the proteomics level analysis that have previously been done predominantly with transcriptional profiling. Since most drugs either target proteins and/or proteins are the functional units of cells, this makes intuitive sense.

      Weaknesses:

      Considering the available resources of the involved teams, performing the initial analysis in a single HGSC cell is certainly a weakness/limitation.

      The data also shows how challenging it is to correctly predict drug combinations. In Table 2 (if I read it correctly), the majority of the drug combinations predicted for the initial cell line OVSAHO did not result in the predicted effect. It also shows how variable the response was in the different HGSC cell lines used for the combination treatment. The success rate will most likely continue to drop as more sophisticated models are being used (i.e., PDX). Human patients are even more challenging.

      It would most likely be useful to more directly mention/discuss these caveats in the manuscript.

      Thank you for your summary and positive comments. Regarding the weaknesses you identified:

      Initial Analysis in a Single Cell Line: We concur with your assessment that performing the initial analysis in a single HGSC cell line (OVSAHO) is a limitation. As mentioned in our response to Reviewer #1, resource limitations caused this decision, and we acknowledge that a broader initial screen would have strengthened generalizability. We added this limitation in the discussion section, emphasizing use of diverse cell lines in the initial protein response profiling as an area for future work.

      Challenges in Predicting Drug Combinations and Variability: We thank the observation regarding the challenges in predicting the effect of drug combinations and the variability of antiproliferative effects observed in different HGSC cell lines (Table 2). As with any predictive method, our computational-experimental pipeline is not guaranteed to identify with absolute certainty additive or synergistic interactions, but generates data-informed hypotheses to be considered in the presence of other available observations. We now emphasize in the Discussion that while our computational pipeline provides plausible anti-resistance candidates, the precise results (extent of additivity or synergy) differ in different cell lines. This underscores that experimental validation across diverse physiological models, such as PDXs or organoids (not just additional cell lines) is an essential criterion of validity of the generated hypotheses. And we underscore the (obvious) challenge of the ultimate translation of pre-clinical experiments to therapeutic effects in humans.

      In revision, we have clarified in detail the expectation of predicted synergy implied by the reviewer’s comment, “the majority of the drug combinations predicted for the initial cell line OVSAHO did not result in the predicted effect”. This reflects a misunderstanding of our goals. The predictions are for drug effects that are anti-resistant, such that the proteomic response to one drug is counteracted by the second drug. The predicted effect is not synergy. Indeed, useful anti-resistance effect does not require synergy - additivity is sufficient: if cells are resistant to the original drug, the second drug plausibly still has antiproliferative effect, as it targets the cellular processes that are increased in activity (upregulated) in response to the first drug. So we deleted the red synergy color in Table 2 to avoid the potential conclusion from our results that without synergy, there is no benefit to a drug combination. In fact, additive drug combination effects are in themselves beneficial. For clarity on this point, added coloring in Table 2 to highlight the small number of combinations that did not work well in that the combination was clearly antagonistic, using a combination index CI >= 2.0 cutoff; we clarify this point in the Discussion.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Figure 2b. This figure would be more impactful if presented as an upset plot with the same Venn diagram embedded. I am not sure Figure 2C accurately supports the statement : "Frequently affected proteins generally had expression level changes in the same direction across all drug perturbations (Figure 2c), indicating a potential general stress response. ". It would be beneficial if the authors could present the data in a way that shows the number of genes with similar directional groupings. Likewise, the color scheme for this figure is hard to interpret as grey is the most negative value and values are preselected for absolute fold-change. Please consider colors with a stronger contrast.

      Authors should consider uploading MS files to the PRIDE or MASSIVE repository.

      We have addressed these very useful suggestions. We have edited Figure 2b to include the requested upset plot. It serves to illustrate the intersection of proteins responding to different perturbation conditions; due to figure space constraints, we limit the figure to entries with counts of at least 15. We have added the number of proteins with consistent directional changes in the figure 2c caption and the text.

      For Figure 2c, we have edited the color bar legend to better reflect the colors that appear in the heatmap.

      We have added our mass-spectrometry drug-response dataset to the ProteomeXchange Consortium via PRIDE with accession number PXD066316.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In the work from Qiu et al., a workflow aimed at obtaining the stabilization of a simple small protein against mechanical and chemical stressors is presented.

      Strengths:

      The workflow makes use of state-of-the-art AI-driven structure generation and couples it with more classical computational and experimental characterizations in order to measure its efficacy. The work is well presented, and the results are thorough and convincing.

      We are grateful to this reviewer for his/her thoughtful assessment and supportive feedback. In response, we have addressed each comment and incorporated the necessary revisions into the manuscript.

      Weaknesses:

      I will comment mostly on the MD results due to my expertise.

      The Methods description is quite precise, but is missing some important details:

      (1) Version of GROMACS used.

      We used GROMACS version 2023.2 (single-precision). All subsequent MD simulation procedures mentioned below have been consolidated and described in detail in the Supporting Information (SI).

      (2) The barostat used.

      Pressure coupling was applied using the C-rescale barostat (τ<sub>p</sub> = 5.0 ps, ref<sub>p</sub> = 1.0 bar).

      (3) pH at which the system is simulated.

      No explicit pH was defined during system construction. Proteins were modeled using standard protonation states as assigned by GROMACS preprocessing tools, corresponding to physiological, near-neutral pH (~ 7.0).

      (4) The pulling is quite fast (but maybe it is not a problem)

      The relatively high pulling velocity (1 nm/ns) was selected to enable efficient screening across a large number of designed proteins (211 candidates), while maintaining reasonable computational cost/time. Given the intrinsic orders-of-magnitude difference between simulation and experimental pulling rates, SMD results were used as a comparative screening tool, rather than for direct quantitative comparison with AFM data.

      (5) What was the value for the harmonic restraint potential? 1000 is mentioned for the pulling potential, but it is not clear if the same value is used for the restraint, too, during pulling.

      All positional restraints used in the simulations, including those applied during equilibration as well as the harmonic restraint on the N-terminus and the pulling umbrella restraint during SMD, employed the same force constant (k = 1000 kJ·mol<sup>–1</sup>·nm<sup>2</sup>). We have clarified this point in the revised Methods section.

      (6) The box dimensions.

      Rectangular simulation boxes were used throughout. For equilibrium MD simulations, the box dimensions in each direction were set based on the maximum extent of the protein along that axis, with a minimum distance of 1.2 nm between the protein surface and the box boundary on all sides. For SMD simulations, the same box dimensions were applied in the x and y directions. Along the pulling (z) direction, the box length was extended to accommodate the theoretical stretching length, defined as the initial N–C terminal distance plus 0.36 nm per stretched residue, while maintaining a 1.2 nm buffer at both ends (2.4 nm total). These details have now been clarified in the revised Supporting Information.

      From this last point, a possible criticism arises: Do the unfolded proteins really still stay far enough away from themselves to not influence the result?

      We analyzed the minimum atomic distance between each protein and its periodic images to assess potential artifacts from periodic boundary conditions. For all simulation stages used in screening and statistical analysis, the minimum protein–image separation remained above 1.0 nm for the majority of the simulation time, exceeding the nonbonded interaction cutoff and minimizing cross-boundary interactions. As shown in the Author response image 1for SpecAI89 (left), this separation during SMD simulations is consistently well above the threshold, indicating that the chosen box dimensions are appropriate. In the very late stages of annealing MD, highly unstable proteins may exhibit large conformational fluctuations and transient boundary proximity (right); however, these regimes are associated with large RMSD deviations and are excluded from analysis. Notably, the mechanically relevant unfolding events occur near the center of the simulation box and proceed along the pulling axis in SMD simulations, making boundary effects unlikely to influence the unfolding process or the relative mechanostability ranking.

      Author response image 1.

      Analysis of the minimum atomic distance between the protein and its periodic images under periodic boundary conditions. Left: SpecAI89 during SMD simulations, showing that the minimum protein–image distance remains above 1.0 nm for the majority of the simulation time. Right: WT during AMD simulations, where transient proximity to the periodic boundary is observed at very late stages due to large conformational fluctuations.

      Additionally, no time series are shown for the equilibration phases (e.g., RMSD evolution over time), which would empower the reader to judge the equilibration of the system before either steered MD or annealing MD is performed.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. To assess equilibration, we analyzed the backbone RMSD evolution during the equilibration phase. Using SpecAI89 as a representative example (Author response image 2), the protein backbone RMSD converges rapidly and reaches a stable plateau within approximately 5 ps. The subsequent 125 ps equilibration period therefore sufficiently demonstrates that the system is well equilibrated prior to both steered MD and annealing MD simulations.

      Author response image 2.

      The backbone RMSD of SpecAI89 over time during simulation

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) In Figure S2, only one copy (or the average of the three copies; it is not clear from the caption) is shown, would be better to show the individual traces for each repeat. Additionally, only the plot for the forces is shown, and not, similarly to the AMD, the RMSD plot. This could be a stylistic choice, but it just reports on how much force was applied and not on how the protein responded to the force. Moreover, horizontal lines at the maximum value reached by the force could be added in order to directly see the difference in force applied, since it is then remarked on.

      Figure S2 originally shows a representative single SMD trajectory, as the force–extension peak positions vary between independent simulations and averaging the force traces would obscure the characteristic force peaks. In the revised Supplementary Information, we have now added the force–extension traces from the other two independent SMD repeats for each construct (New Figure S2). In addition, horizontal lines indicating the maximum force reached in each trajectory have been included to facilitate direct comparison of force differences between designs.

      (2) In Figure S3 the plots have different y-axis. Maybe it could be valuable to modify it so that in figures b, c, and d the spectrum result is in the background (perhaps in gray) so that the y-axis is not changed to retain the information included in this plot, but one could still compare directly to the spectrum result. With a 0 to 1 nm y-axis part of the spectrin run will be hidden, but in any case, plot a can be used to see the full behavior. Similarly to S2, the repeats (if any) could be shown.

      We have revised Figure S3 as suggested. The y-axis is now unified to 0–1.2 nm across all panels. For panels b–d, the natural spectrin trajectory is displayed in light gray in the background for direct comparison. Additionally, three independent MD replicates are now presented for each construct to demonstrate reproducibility.

      Finally, minor remarks that could nevertheless improve the paper:

      (3) In Figure S7, a bimodal distribution model for the number of events could be used to fit the data better.

      We thank the reviewer for the detailed suggestion. Following this advice, we explored the bimodal Gaussian distribution model for fitting the force-event data in Figure S7. Indeed, our analysis showed that a bimodal fit could fit Figures S7 panel f better (as shown in Author response image 3). The two peaks were centered at F<sub>1</sub> = 190 ± 4 pN and F<sub>2</sub> = 380 ± 6 pN. Interestingly, the force of the first major peak obtained is the same as the previously fitted value. The second one is double force value which we guess maybe is a bi-molecule stretched for unknown reason. Considering the very few numbers of the second peak and the same force value (190 pN), we decide not to change the unfolding force value in the manuscript. But we thank this reviewer’s insightful comment.

      Author response image 3.

      The bimodal fit for unfolding force of SpecAI88-49E102K-6H149H show the same 190 pN unfolding for the first peak as previous fit.

      (4) The colors in the video are not very intuitive, as the spectrin is shown initially in light blue, but becomes grey in the variants, where light blue is reserved for the additional helix. A counter of elapsed time and/or force/temperature applied could help the readers orient. Maybe it could be useful to produce a video with spectrin and the three variants all shown together?

      We thank this comment. The videos have been revised to improve clarity and consistency accordingly. In all cases, the original protein scaffold is now shown in gray, while the additional helix in the designed variants is highlighted in blue. Real-time annotations have been added to aid interpretation: the instantaneous temperature is displayed during AMD simulations, and time is shown during SMD simulations. In addition, for ease of comparison, the AMD and SMD results of all four proteins are each compiled into a single combined video, allowing their behaviors to be viewed side by side.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Qiu, Jun et. al., developed and validated a computational pipeline aimed at stabilizing α-helical bundles into very stable folds. The computational pipeline is a hierarchical computational methodology tasked to generate and filter a pool of candidates, ultimately producing a manageable number of high-confidence candidates for experimental evaluation. The pipeline is split into two stages. In stage I, a large pool of candidate designs is generated by RFdiffusion and ProteinMPNN, filtered down by a series of filters (hydropathy score, foldability assessed by ESMFold and AlphaFold). The final set is chosen by running a series of steered MD simulations. This stage reached unfolding forces above 100pN. In stage II, targeted tweaks are introduced - such as salt bridges and metal ion coordination - to further enhance the stability of the α-helical bundle. The constructs undergo validation through a series of biophysical experiments. Thermal stability is assessed by CD, chemical stability by chemical denaturation, and mechanical stability by AFM.

      Strengths:

      A hierarchical computational approach that begins with high-throughput generation of candidates, followed by a series of filters based on specific goal-oriented constraints, is a powerful approach for a rapid exploration of the sequence space. This type of approach breaks down the multi-objective optimization into manageable chunks and has been successfully applied for protein design purposes (e.g., the design of protein binders). Here, the authors nicely demonstrate how this design strategy can be applied to successfully redesign a moderately stable α-helical bundle into an ultrastable fold. This approach is highly modular, allowing the filtering methods to be easily swapped based on the specific optimization goals or the desired level of filtering.

      We are thankful for the reviewer’s diligent evaluation and positive remarks. His/her concluding remarks, which encourage our future work at the intersection of AI-protein design and AFM-SMSF, are especially appreciated. All comments have been incorporated into our revisions.

      Weaknesses:

      Assessing the change in stability relative to the WT α-helical bundle is challenging because an additional helix has been introduced, resulting in a comparison between a three-helix bundle and a four-helix bundle. Consequently, the appropriate reference point for comparison is unclear. A more direct and informative approach would have been to redesign the original α-helical bundle of the human spectrin repeat R15, allowing for a more straightforward stability comparison.

      This is an insightful comment. Indeed, a direct comparison between the same structure of the three-helix bundle will be most straightforward with a clear reference point. I will take this advice and try it in our future endeavor.

      In our case, a substantial fraction of the hydrophobic region is relatively shallow and partially solvent-exposed in the wild-type R15 α-helical bundle. So, the added fourth helix provides a new hydrophobic packing interface, increasing core burial, packing density, and strengthening the internal load-bearing network. Consistent with this design rationale, rSASA analysis shows that the designed proteins exhibit a higher degree of hydrophobic core burial compared to the wild-type R15. Specifically, the fraction of residues with rSASA < 0.2 exceeds 30% in the designs, compared to 23% in the natural spectrin repeat.

      While the authors have shown experimentally that stage II constructs have increased the mechanical stability by AFM, they did not show that these same constructs have increased the thermal and chemical stabilities. Since the effects of salt bridges on stability are highly context dependent (orientation, local environment, exposed vs buried, etc.), it is difficult to assess the magnitude of the effect that this change had on other types of stabilities.

      We agree that the effects of salt bridges are highly context-dependent and that different dimensions of stability do not always correlate. Following your suggestion, we evaluated the thermal and chemical stabilities of the Stage II constructs. The experimental results (now added as Figure S9) show that Stage II designs successfully maintain the high thermal stability and resistance to chemical denaturation to different extend. The thermal stability is still as high as the Stage I but the resistance to chemical denaturation is slightly reduced. We have added this result in the manuscript accordingly.

      The three constructs chosen are 60-70% identical to each other, either suggesting overconstrained optimization of the sequence or a physical constraint inherent to designing ultrastable α-helical bundles. It would be interesting to explore these possible design principles further.

      Yes, the observed sequence convergence likely arises from a combination of intrinsic physical constraints of the protein architecture and the applied design and screening criteria. In particular, the tightly packed hydrophobic core imposes strong constraints on side-chain size, packing complementarity, and the alignment of heptad-like motifs reminiscent of coiled-coil organization, which collectively reduce the accessible sequence space. In addition, the strong selection pressure imposed by foldability and stability filters further promotes convergence toward similar solutions. And we agree with the reviewer that this represents an important direction for future work.

      While the use of steered MD is an elegant approach to picking the top N most stable designs, its computational cost may become prohibitive as the number of designs increases or as the protein size grows, especially since it requires simulating a water box that can accommodate a fully denatured protein

      Yes, steered MD can become computationally expensive, particularly as the number of designs increases or as protein size grows. Considering the vast pool created by AI, SMD in this work was applied to a relatively small, high-confidence subset of candidates after multiple rounds of rapid prescreening, keeping the overall computational cost manageable. In future applications, this step could be further accelerated by integrating machine-learning–based predictors to improve scalability.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I am not convinced that the difference in rSASA between the designs and the natural spectrin repeat is meaningful. It would be helpful to report confidence intervals for the rSASA values of the designs to clarify whether any differences are statistically robust. Even if such differences prove statistically significant, it is not clear that they are large enough to be practically meaningful.

      In our analysis, rSASA values were calculated from equilibrated MD conformations and were consistently higher for all designed proteins that passed the simulation-based screening compared to the wild-type spectrin repeat. However, we believe that rSASA was used only as a supportive structural descriptor to indicate a trend toward a more compact and better-buried hydrophobic core, rather than as a standalone or decisive metric of stability.

      Protein stability is indeed influenced by multiple factors, including hydrogen bonding, salt bridges, metal coordination, and topology-dependent load-bearing interactions, none of which are captured by rSASA alone. Therefore, we agree with the reviewer that differences in rSASA alone should not be overinterpreted as a quantitative measure of protein stability. For this reason, rSASA was not used as a ranking criterion or a predictor of stability, but only as complementary evidence consistent with the overall design rationale and with the experimentally observed stability enhancements.

      The claim "The strong agreement between computational rankings and experimental measurements validates this approach for prioritizing designs based on relative mechanostability, offering a practical pipeline to bridge the gap between in silico design and experimental validation." should be substantiated by a citation or a figure. Since the authors have the experimental AFM data and steered MD data, I suggest adding a Spearman correlation plot of the two.

      Following this comment, we examined the Spearman rank correlation between SMD-derived unfolding forces and experimentally measured AFM forces (Author response image 4). The resulting correlation was modest (ρ = 0.4, p = 0.6), which is not unexpected given (i) the large difference in force and timescales between high-speed SMD simulations and single-molecule AFM experiments, and (ii) the limited number of designs and simulation repeats available.

      Nevertheless, qualitatively, the difference between the first point from wt-spectrin and the other three specAI is clear. Considering the large computational cost, we only performed three times simulation one each design to balance the accuracy and the cost/time. To avoid overinterpretation, we therefore did not include the correlation analysis in the main text and revised the manuscript to soften claims of strong agreement, emphasizing instead the qualitative and comparative role of SMD in the design pipeline.

      Author response image 4.

      Spearman correlation between SMD and AFM unfolding forces for natural spectrin and SpecAI designs. SMD force (x-axis) versus experimental AFM force (y-axis); each point represents one protein.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Qiu et al. present a hierarchical framework that combines AI and molecular dynamics simulation to design an α-helical protein with enhanced thermal, chemical, and mechanical stability. Strategically, chemical modification by incorporating additional α-helix, site-specific salt bridges, and metal coordination further enhanced the stability. The experimental validation using single-molecule force spectroscopy and CD melting measurements provides fundamental physical chemical insights into the stabilization of α-helices. Together with the group's prior work on super-stable β strands (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41557-025-01998-3), this research provides a comprehensive toolkit for protein stabilization. This framework has broad implications for designing stable proteins capable of functioning under extreme conditions.

      Strengths:

      The study represents a complete framework for stabilizing the fundamental protein elements, α-helices. A key strength of this work is the integration of AI tools with chemical knowledge of protein stability.

      The experimental validation in this study is exceptional. The single-molecule AFM analysis provided a high-resolution look at the energy landscape of these designed scaffolds. This approach allows for the direct observation of mechanical unfolding forces (exceeding 200 pN) and the precise contribution of individual chemical modifications to global stability. These measurements offer new, fundamental insights into the physicochemical principles that govern α-helix stabilization.

      We appreciate the positive assessment of our manuscript from this reviewer and his/her support. We have answered all the comments as follows and modified the manuscript accordingly.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The authors report that appending an additional helix increases the overcall stability of the α-helical protein. Could the author provide a more detailed structural explanation for this? Why does the mechanical stability increase as the number of helixes increase? Is there a reported correlation between the number of helices (or the extent of the hydrophobic core) and the stability?

      In multi-helix bundle proteins, tight interhelical packing leads to the formation of a dense hydrophobic core, which substantially enhances overall structural stability. The introduction of an additional helix does not merely increase helix count, but expands the buried hydrophobic interface, improving packing density and cooperative side-chain interactions in the core. This, in turn, strengthens the internal load-bearing network that resists force-induced unfolding.

      From a mechanical perspective, adding a helix also increases topological interlocking among secondary-structure elements, which raises the energetic barrier for unfolding and shifts the unfolding pathway toward more cooperative rupture events, thereby increasing the unfolding force threshold. Consistent with this design principle, pioneering studies have reported a positive correlation between the number of helices (or the extent of the hydrophobic core) in helix bundles and their stability (Lim et al., Structure, 2008, 16:449; Minin et al., J. Am. Chem. Soc., 2017, 139, 16168; Bergues-Pupo et al., Phys. Chem. Chem. Phys., 2018, 20, 29105). Inspired by these works, our AI-protein design study uses the appended helix to reinforce the hydrophobic core rather than simply increasing secondary-structure content.

      (2) The author analyzed both thermal stability and mechanical stability. It would be helpful for the author to discuss the relationship between these two parameters in the context of their design. Since thermal melting probes equilibrium stability (ΔG), while mechanical stability probes the unfolding energy barriers along the pulling coordinate.

      We agree this is a crucial distinction. Thermal and chemical stabilities report on the equilibrium free energy (ΔG), while mechanical stability probes the kinetic unfolding barrier (ΔG‡) along a force-dependent pathway. Their inherent difference makes concurrent improvement in all parameters a non-trivial task, which highlights the importance and success of our integrative design approach.

      (3) While the current study demonstrates a dramatic increase in global stability, the analysis focuses almost exclusively on the unfolding (melting) process. However, thermodynamic stability is a function of both folding (k<sub>f</sub>) and unfolding (k<sub>u</sub>) rates. It remains unclear whether the observed ultrastability is primarily driven by a drastic decrease in the unfolding rate (k<sub>u</sub>) or if the design also maintains or improves the folding rate (k<sub>f</sub>)?

      We agree with the reviewer that thermodynamic stability is determined by both the folding rate (k<sub>f</sub>) and the unfolding rate (k<sub>u</sub>). In the present study, we did not directly measure folding kinetics, and therefore cannot quantitatively deconvolute the respective contributions of k<sub>f</sub> and k<sub>u</sub> to the observed ultrastability. Based on the design strategy and the experimental observations, we propose that the enhanced stability primarily originates from a substantial reduction in the unfolding rate (k<sub>u</sub>), corresponding to an increased unfolding energy barrier. The reinforcement of the hydrophobic core, the introduction of stabilizing interactions such as salt bridges and metal coordination, and the additional helix that increases topological and packing constraints all raise the energetic cost of disrupting key interactions in the folded state.

      This interpretation is consistent with the high mechanical unfolding forces observed in both AFM experiments and SMD simulations. In contrast, these stabilizing features are not necessarily expected to accelerate folding and may even modestly increase folding complexity. Addressing folding kinetics explicitly would require dedicated kinetic experiments or simulations, which are beyond the scope of the present work but represent an interesting direction for future studies.

      (4) The authors chose the spectrin repeat R15 as the starting scaffold for their design. R15 is a well-established model known for its "ultra-fast" folding kinetics, with folding rates (k<sub>f</sub> ~105s), near three orders of magnitude faster than its homologues like R17 (Scott et.al., Journal of molecular biology 344.1 (2004): 195-205). Does the newly designed protein, with its additional fourth helix and site-specific chemical modifications, retain the exceptionally high folding rate of the parent R15?

      We did not directly measure the folding kinetics of the newly designed proteins, and therefore cannot determine whether they retain the exceptionally fast folding rate reported for the parent spectrin repeat R15. While R15 is known for its ultrafast folding behavior, the introduction of an additional fourth helix and site-specific chemical modifications, although beneficial for enhancing stability, may increase the complexity of the folding landscape and do not necessarily guarantee that the folding rate (k<sub>f</sub>) remains comparable to that of R15.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Please clarify the used Gaussian function to fit the unfolding force distribution (Figure 3-4). In Figure S8, the Bell-Evans model is used to analyze unfolding force. The authors should explain the choice of fitting methods and ensure consistency.

      The Gaussian fitting used in Figures 3–4 is intended as a descriptive statistical analysis to summarize the unfolding force distributions and to facilitate direct comparison between different designs. This approach provides a robust estimate of the most probable unfolding force and the distribution width, without invoking a specific physical unfolding model, and is commonly used in single-molecule force spectroscopy for comparative purposes.

      In contrast, the Bell-Evans model applied in Figure S8 is a kinetic framework that explicitly accounts for force-loading-rate dependence and is used to extract mechanistic insights into the unfolding process. Therefore, the two fitting approaches serve complementary roles: Gaussian fitting for quantitative comparison and ranking of mechanostability, and Bell-Evans analysis for mechanistic interpretation. We have clarified this distinction and the rationale for using both methods in the revised Supplementary Information to ensure consistency and transparency.

      (2) The authors utilized steered MD simulation to analyze the mechanical properties via ForceGen (Ni et al., 2024, Sci. Adv. 10, eadl4000). However, the significant discrepancy between the predicted unfolding force (~600 pN) and the experimental value (~50 pN for spectrin, line 376) requires further justification (line 376). Please clarify how the accuracy of these predictions can be established. Specifically, do the MD simulations successfully capture the relative ranking or trends in stability across the different designed variants?

      We agree with the reviewer that there is a substantial discrepancy between the absolute unfolding forces predicted by SMD simulations (~ 600 pN) and those measured experimentally by AFM (~ 50 pN for spectrin). This difference primarily arises from the orders-of-magnitude mismatch in loading rates between simulations and experiments. In our SMD simulations, the pulling velocity (~10<sup>9</sup> nm/s) is several orders of magnitude higher than that used in AFM experiments (~10<sup>3</sup> nm/s), which is to systematically elevate the apparent unfolding force. In addition to loading-rate effects, limitations in force-field accuracy, finite system size, and restricted conformational sampling further contribute to deviations in absolute force values. As a result, the unfolding forces obtained from SMD are not intended to provide quantitative agreement with experimental measurements or absolute mechanical stability.

      Instead, SMD is employed here as a comparative screening tool to assess relative mechanostability across different designed variants under identical simulation conditions. Despite the limited number of repeats imposed by computational cost, the simulations consistently distinguish candidates with markedly different mechanical responses. Importantly, the variants identified by SMD as more mechanically stable were subsequently confirmed experimentally to exhibit enhanced mechanostability relative to the wild-type spectrin repeat. Therefore, while SMD does not yield quantitatively accurate unfolding forces, it successfully captures relative stability trends and provides a practical and effective means for prioritizing designs prior to experimental validation.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      We thank the reviewers for their constructive and precise comments, which have helped us improve the consistency and clarity of our manuscript. Below, we provide a point-by-point response to each comment. In summary, the main changes introduced in the revised version are as follows:

      (1) We replaced all the statistical analyses to their non-parametric equivalents to ensure compliance with test assumptions and consistency of the results;

      (2) We compare the participants’ reaction times before and during connected practice, revealing a significant reduction in reaction times of both partners when connected;

      (3) We added, in the supplementary materials, a table reporting the vigor scores of each participant in each experimental condition, facilitating the assessment of individual and dyadic behaviors;

      (4) We have reviewed and refined the terminology throughout the manuscript and reduced the number of abbreviations to improve clarity.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors present a novel investigation of the movement vigor of individuals completing a synchronous extension-flexion task. Participants were placed into groups of two (so-called "dyads") and asked to complete shared movements (connected via a virtual loaded spring) to targets placed at varying amplitudes. The authors attempted to quantify what, if any, adjustments in movement vigor individual participants made during the dyadic movements, given the combined or co-dependent nature of the task. This is a novel, timely question of interest within the broader field of human sensorimotor control.

      Participants from each dyad were labeled as "slow" (low vigor) or "fast" (high vigor), and their respective contributions to the combined movement metrics were assessed. The authors presented four candidate models for dyad interactions: (a) independent motor plans (i.e., co-activity hypothesis), (b) individual-led motor plans (i.e., leader-follower hypothesis), (c) generalization to a weighted average motor plan (i.e., weighted adaptation hypothesis), and (d) an uncertainty-based model of dynamic partner-partner interaction (i.e., interactive adaptation hypothesis). The final model allowed for dynamic changes in individual motor plans (and therefore, movement vigor) based on partner-partner interactions and observations. After detailed observations of interaction torque and movement duration (or vigor), the authors concluded that the interactive adaptation model provided the best explanation of human-human interaction during self-paced dyadic movements.

      Strengths:

      The experimental setup (simultaneous wrist extension-flexion movements) has been thoroughly vetted. The task was designed particularly well, with adequate block pseudo-randomization to ensure general validity of the results. The analyses of torque interaction, movement kinematics, and vigor are sound, as are the statistical measures used to assess significance. The authors structured the work via a helpful comparison of several candidate models of human-human interaction dynamics, and how well said models explained variance in the vigor of solo and combined movements. The research question is timely and extends current neuroscientific understanding of sensorimotor control, particularly in social contexts.

      We thank the reviewer for their in-depth analysis and constructive assessment of our manuscript.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) My chief concern about the study as it currently stands is the relatively low number of data points (n=10). The authors recruited 20 participants, but the primary conclusions are based on dyad-specific interactions (i.e., analyses of "fast" vs "slow" participants in each pair). Some of these analyses would benefit greatly, in terms of power, from the addition of more data points.

      We understand and appreciate the reviewer’s concern regarding the effective sample size at the dyad level (n=10). While our primary analyses focus on dyad-specific interactions, we note that the reported effects are consistent across multiple dynamic conditions and are associated with large effect sizes. To provide a conservative assessment the Cohen’s D values reported correspond to the smallest effect size observed across the relevant statistical tests, thereby limiting the risk of false positives or overinterpretation. In addition, to ensure robustness given the sample size and distribution properties of the data, we have replaced all parametric tests with their non-parametric counterparts, as some analyses violated ANOVA assumptions. Friedman and Kruskal-Wallis tests are now used for paired and unpaired main effects respectively, and Wilcoxon and Mann-Whitney tests for paired and unpaired post-hoc comparisons respectively. Note that these changes did not alter the conclusions of the study.

      (a) The distribution of delta-vigor (Fast group vs Slow group) is highly skewed (see Figures 3D, S6D), with over half of the dyads exhibiting delta-vigor less than 0.2 (i.e., less than 20% of unit vigor). Given the relatively low number of dyads, it would be helpful for the authors to provide explicit listings of VigorFast, VigorSlow, and VigorCombined for each of the 10 separate dyads or pairings.

      We agree with this comment. However, we note that the distribution of vigor scores within a population is typically centered around 1, with large deviations observed only for the fastest and slowest participants [1]. As a result, the distri bution of ∆-vigor is inherently skewed. Correcting for this skewness would (i) require pairing participants based on their vigor, which is logistically difficult, and (ii) lead to an atypical sampling of dyads, with an over representation of pairs exhibiting very large vigor differences. The distributions of vigor scores for the fast and slow groups before and after the interaction are reported in Supplementary Fig. S21. In addition, as suggested by the reviewer, we have now included Table S.1 in the supplementary materials, listing the values VigorFast, VigorSlow, and VigorCombined for each of the 10 dyads. This table provides a complete view of the evolution of participant’s vigor throughout the experiment.

      (b) The authors concluded that the interactive adaptation hypothesis provided the best summary of the combined movement dynamics in the study. If this is indeed the case, then the relative degree of difference in vigor between the fast and slow participants in a dyad should matter. How well did the interactive adaptation model explain variance in the dyads with relatively low delta-vigor (e.g., less than 0.2) vs relatively high delta-vigor?

      We initially expected the magnitude of difference in individual vigor within a dyad to play a significant role. However, our analysis did not reveal any systematic effect of ∆-vigor on either the interaction force or the resulting dyadic vigor, as shown by the LMM analysis. Importantly, the interactive adaptation hypothesis does per se imply that the magnitude of vigor differences between the two partners should matter, only that their respective roles in selecting the adapted behavior is different. Although the model includes several free parameters, we did not attempt to fit it to individual dyads as would in principle be possible. Instead, we performed a sensitivity analysis to assess how variations in the difference in vigor between the partners influence model predictions. For this purpose, we simulated increasing values of µ and variations in the fast partner’s cost of time. In addition, we demonstrated that uncertainty in the estimated behavior of the slow partner, which is a priori specific to each individual, has a substantial impact on the optimal movement duration of the dyad. Overall, this analysis shows that the model captures the full range of qualitative trends observed in the experimental data. When applied to predict the behavior of the average dyad, the resulting movement time prediction error remain small, as detailed in the Results section.

      (2) The authors shared the results of one analysis of reaction time, showing that the reaction times of the slow partners and the fast partners did not differ during the initial passive block. Did the authors observe any changes in RT of either the slow or fast partner during the combined (primary task) blocks (KL, KH, etc.)? If the pairs of participants did indeed employ a form of interactive adaptation, then it is certainly plausible that this interaction would manifest in the initial movement planning phase (i.e., RT) in addition to the vigor and smoothness of the movements themselves.

      We thank the reviewer for this interesting question, that prompted us to extend our analysis of reaction times to the connected conditions. This additional analysis revealed a significant main effect of the condition on the reaction time for both the fast and slow groups (in both cases: W<sub>2</sub> > 0.39, p < 0.02). Post-hoc comparisons showed a significant reduction in reaction time between the initial null-field block (NF1) and the KH condition for the slow group (p = 0.03, D = 1.46), and a similar trend for the fast group (p = 0.06, D = 1.03). However, the reaction times remained comparable between the two groups, with no significant difference between them. We have incorporated these observations in the Results section (p.4, l.100–109) and expanded the Discussion (p.11, l.341–348) to address their implications for interactive adaptation in human-human and human-robot physical interactions.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study examines how individual movement vigor is integrated into a shared, dyadic vigor when two individuals are physically coupled. Participants performed wrist-reaching movements toward targets at different distances while mechanically linked via a virtual elastic band, and dyads were formed by pairing participants with different baseline vigor profiles. Under interaction conditions, movements converged to coordinated patterns that could not be explained by simple averaging, indicating that each dyad behaved as a single functional unit. Notably, under coupling, movement durations for both partners were shorter than in the solo condition, arguing against the view that each individual simply executed an independent movement plan. Furthermore, dyadic vigor was primarily predicted by the slower partner’s vigor rather than by the faster partner’s, suggesting that neither a leader-follower strategy nor a weighted averaging account fully explains the observed behavior. The authors propose a computational model in which both partners adapt to the emerging interaction dynamics ("interactive adaptation strategy"), providing a coherent explanation of the behavioral observations.

      Strengths:

      The study is carefully designed and addresses an important question about how individual movement vigor is integrated during joint action. The experimental paradigm allows systematic manipulation of interaction strength and partner asymmetry. The behavioral results show clear and robust patterns, particularly the shortening of movement durations under elastic coupling (KL and KH conditions) and the asymmetrical contribution of the slower partner’s vigor to dyadic vigor. The computational model captures the main behavioral patterns well and provides a principled framework for interpreting dyadic vigor not as a simple combination of two independent motor plans, but as an emergent property arising from mutual adaptation. Conceptually, the study is notable in extending the notion of vigor from an individual attribute to a dyad-level construct, opening a new perspective on coordinated movement and motor decision-making.

      We thank the reviewer for their thorough analysis of our manuscript and their constructive feedback.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) A key conceptual issue concerns the apparent asymmetry between partners in the computational framework. While dyadic vigor is empirically better predicted by the slower partner’s vigor, the model formulation appears to emphasize the faster partner’s time-related cost and interaction forces. Although the cost function includes an uncertaintyrelated component associated with the slower partner, it remains unclear from the current formulation and description how dyadic vigor is formally derived from the slower partner’s control policy within the same modeling framework. This raises an important question regarding whether the model offers a symmetric account of dyadic vigor formation for both partners or whether it is effectively anchored to the faster partner’s control architecture.

      We have modified our phrasing to clarify the principles according to which the computational framework was designed (p.7, l.226–231 and p.9, l.260–264). As stated in the Results section, the model is indeed asymmetric by design, which corresponds to the different roles of the fast and slow partner exhibited in the data. In that context, the uncertain term associated with the slow partners should be understood as an overarching constraint that conditions the strategy of the dyad, while the fast partner cost of time acts as a contributor to the expected dyad strategy. Conceptually and numerically as reported in the sensitivity analysis, this asymmetry corresponds to the role of the slow partners in setting the vigor ranking among the dyads and the role of the fast partner in setting the average dyadic behavior.

      (2) A second conceptual issue concerns the interpretation of the term "motor plan." It remains unclear whether this term refers primarily to movement-related characteristics such as speed or duration, or more broadly to the underlying optimization structure that governs these variables. This distinction is theoretically important, as it determines whether the reported interaction effects should be understood as adjustments in movement characteristics or as changes in the structure of the control policy itself.

      We agree with the reviewer that this terminology required clarification. In this paper, the term “motor plan” refers to the time series of control inputs planned by the CNS, rather than solely to kinematic descriptors such as speed or duration. These planned control signals are a direct consequence of the underlying optimization structure and cost functions that govern trajectory generation. We have clarified this definition in the Introduction (p.1, l.23–24).

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Strengths:

      This study provides novel insights into how individuals regulate the speed of their movements both alone and in pairs, highlighting consistent differences in movement vigor across people and showing that these differences can adapt in dyadic contexts. The findings are significant because they reveal stable individual patterns of action that are flexible when interacting with others, and they suggest that multiple factors, beyond reward sensitivity, may contribute to these idiosyncrasies. The evidence is generally strong, supported by careful behavioral measurements and appropriate modeling, though clarifying some statistical choices and including additional measures of accuracy and smoothness would further strengthen the support for the conclusions.

      Thank you for this analysis and the insightful feedback.

      Major Comments:

      (1) Given the idiosyncrasies in individual vigor, would linear mixed models (LMMs) be more appropriate than ANOVAs in some analyses (e.g., in the section "Solo session"), as they can account for random intercepts and slopes on vigor measures? Some figures (e.g., Figure 2.B and 3.E) indeed seem to show that some aspects of behaviour may present variability in slopes and intercepts across participants. In fact, I now realize that LMMs are used in the "Emergence of dyadic vigor from the partners’ individual vigor" section, so could the authors clarify why different statistical approaches were applied depending on the sections?

      We thank the reviewer for this thoughtful comment. We deliberately used different statistical approaches throughout the paper in order to address different types of questions. Note that the statistical tests were converted to their nonparametric equivalent for consistency (see answer to Reviewer 1).

      - Friedman tests were used in a limited number of cases to assess population- or group-level effects, such as differences in movement time, smoothness, or accuracy across the solo, connected, and after-effects conditions. Such tests provide a straightforward framework for these descriptive, condition-level comparisons.

      - The stability of individual and dyadic vigor scores across conditions was assessed using Pearson correlations across all condition pairs, which we consider the most direct and interpretable approach for evaluating consistency across sessions.

      - LMMs were employed to examine how dyadic vigor relates to the partners’ individual vigor measured in the solo conditions, which revealed the critical contribution of the slow partner.

      Rather than applying a single statistical framework throughout, we selected the method best suited to each question. While LMMs are well suited for modeling participant-specific variability when linking individual and dyadic measures, their systematic use in all analyses would be less intuitive and would not directly address several of the population-level comparisons central to this study.

      (2) If I understand correctly, the introduction suggests that idiosyncrasies in movement vigor may be driven by interindividual differences in reward sensitivity. However, the current task does not involve any explicit rewards, yet the authors still observe idiosyncrasies in vigor, which is interesting. Could this indicate that other factors contribute to these consistent individual differences? For example, could sensitivity to temporal costs or physical effort explain the slow versus fast subgrouping? Specifically, might individuals more sensitive to temporal costs move faster to minimize opportunity costs, and might those less sensitive to effort costs also move faster? Along the same lines, could the two subgroups (slow vs. fast) be characterized in terms of underlying computational "phenotypes," such as their sensitivities to time and effort? If this is not feasible with the current dataset, it would still be valuable to discuss whether these factors could plausibly account for the observed patterns, based on existing literature.

      We thank the reviewer for this interesting question. We first note that the notion of reward in motor control is quite broad. Although our task did not include explicit external (e.g. monetary) rewards, we assumed that participants attribute an implicit value to completing the task in accordance with the experimenter’s instructions. This assumption has been shown to be appropriate for characterising baseline behavior in previous studies [2–5].

      As discussed in the Introduction, vigor is generally understood to emerge from a tradeoff between effort, accuracy, and time. The reviewer is correct in noting that inter-individual differences in vigor may reflect differences in reward sensitivity or in its discounting [3,6], given that time and reward are intrinsically coupled. Differences in vigor may also arise from inter-individual variability in sensitivity to effort or perceived task difficulty. Because these factors are intertwined—for example, increasing accuracy through co-contraction typically incurs greater effort [7])—it is challenging to disentangle their respective contributions based solely on behavioral data.

      In the present study, our inverse optimal control procedure to identify the cost of time (and thus predict individuals’ vigor) relies on a predefined effort-accuracy tradeoff under fixed final time across multiple movement amplitudes [8]. As a result, the model does not allow us to independently estimate individual sensitivities to effort, accuracy, and time. Such characterization of computational "phenotypes" would likely require experimental paradigms in which each of these factors is systematically manipulated while the others are held constant, which is beyond the scope of the current dataset. In practice, the main value of behavioral modeling lies in revealing the relative weighting of these criteria by the CNS during motor planning [5]. We have expanded the Discussion to clarify these limitations and considerations (see Discussion p.12, l.396–401 & l.407–412).

      Finally, we chose not to emphasize these broader issues in the present manuscript because (i) they are peripheral to our primary research question on how individual vigor influences human-human interaction, and (ii) although we do not yet have definitive and consensual answers, they have been addressed in multiple studies reviewed elsewhere [9,10].

      (3) The observation that dyads did not lose accuracy or smoothness despite changes in vigor is interesting and suggests a shift in the speed-accuracy tradeoff. Could the authors include accuracy and smoothness measures in the main figures rather than only in supplementary materials? I think it would make the manuscript more complete.

      We also find that the preservation of accuracy and smoothness despite changes in vigor is an interesting result, and we therefore chose to report these measures in the Supplementary Materials. However, we believe it is preferable not to include them in the main figures for the following reasons:

      - We avoid framing our results in terms of a speed-accuracy trade-off, as Fitts’ work was initially designed to study fast movements [11], whereas our work focuses on self-paced movements. As outlined in the Introduction, vigor is more appropriately interpreted as reflecting a tradeoff between effort (related to movement speed), accuracy, and time. From this perspective, the reported changes of vigor already capture a shift in the underlying trade-off selected by the CNS, using a framework better suited to our experimental paradigm.

      - The manuscript is technically dense and reports multiple analyses that are essential to establish (i) the existence and definition of dyadic vigor, and (ii) how it emerges from interaction between partners. Although the observed preservation of accuracy and improvements in smoothness are informative, they are not central to these two primary questions and would risk diverting attention from the core contributions of the paper. In addition, accuracy is not a feature predicted by our deterministic modeling and extensions would be needed to capture these aspect. Here we only attempted to replicate average behaviors.

      (4) It is a bit unclear to me whether the variance assumptions for ANOVAs were checked, for instance, in Figure 3H.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment, which prompted us to verify the assumptions underlying our ANOVAs. We found that a few distributions in the original analysis, as well as in some of the new tests, did not meet these assumptions. To ensure consistency, all statistical analyses have now been replaced with non-parametric tests: Friedman and Kruskal-Wallis tests for paired and unpaired main effects, Wilcoxon and Mann-Whitney tests for paired and unpaired post-hocs. The updated results do not change any of the conclusions. the only minor change is accuracy, that appeared slightly improved in a restricted number of connected conditions, and now appears mostly non-impacted.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Minor points:

      (1) Lines 146-147. The authors state, "Whereas the fast partners maintained a similar duration". Figures S6H,I suggest that fast partners made slower movements during the paired task relative to the solo task, not movements with a similar duration.

      We agree that Fig. S.6H,I suggest slightly slower movements for the fast partners, though not significant. We have modified the sentence to be less assertive than in the previous version (see p.6, l.155).

      (2) In the Discussion (Lines 318-319), the authors state that their findings confirm and extend the "benefits of dyadic control in collaborative actions". What benefits are they referring to here, relative to individual control? It would be helpful if the authors would elaborate on this claim.

      We have modified this sentence to clarify that the benefits of dyadic control refer to previously reported advantages over individual control, namely reduced movement time Reed and Peshkin (2008) [12] and improved tracking accuracy [13,14] (see p.11, l.336–337).

      (3) On Lines 87-89, the authors reference a decomposition of variance of vigor scores across the NF1, VL, and VH conditions; however, I did not see an explanation of how this decomposition was performed. The method used to estimate variance explained by inter-individual vs intra-individual differences in vigor should be outlined for the reader.

      Thank you for pointing out this missing information. We now explain in the statistical analysis section (see p.14, l.504–507), that the percentage of inter-individual variability in vigor is estimated using sum-square values as an estimation of inter- and intra-individual variability.

      (4) How was the absolute interaction torque for a paired movement calculated? Was it an integral of the temporal profile of torque for some portion of the combined movement? The method for calculating the absolute interaction torque needs to be specified.

      We have now clarified in the Methods (see p.14, l.490–491) that the reported average interaction effort was computed as the absolute value of the interaction torque as a function of time averaged over the entire movement.

      (5) Lines 123-124: "... interaction torque showed no significant correlation with differences in individual vigor within dyads." This statement should be supported by appropriate statistical measures.

      This result is now supported by reporting the corresponding Pearson correlation analyses. No significant correlations were found between interaction torque and differences in individual vigor within dyads (KL conditions: |r| < 0.43, p> 0.22; KH conditions: |r| < 0.18, p > 0.61, see p.5, l.132–133).

      (6) For the analysis, presented in Figure 3C, and specified on lines 116-123, the text mentions the main effects of both condition and target. There doesn’t appear to be much of an effect of the target for the KH data. Should these results not be reported as an interaction effect between the two factors instead?

      We agree with the reviewer and have corrected our presentation of these results (see p.4, l.126–128). Consistent with the reviewer’s observation, no significant effect of the target is found in the KH condition.

      (7) Figures 3E and S6B. What is the purpose of including the averaged data for each pair in addition to both individuals’ data from each pair? It would be useful to distinguish the individual data from the average data for each pair. Frankly, the number of data points shown on this sub-figure is excessive.

      There may have been a misunderstanding. Because the partners of a dyad are connected by a virtual elastic band (rather than a rigid bar), they do not execute identical movements. Therefore Figs. 3E,S6B display the movement time of all individual participants, together with the corresponding 20 individual regression lines, like in Fig. 2B. The solid black line represents the average across all individuals, and the averaged behaviors of dyads are not included. We have clarified this point by revising the caption of Fig. 3E (see p.5).

      Noted mis-spellings:

      Figure S.3A caption: "trials towards this target."

      Page 10 Line 313: "Importantly, these findings show ...".

      These mis-spellings have been corrected at supplementary p.2 and main text p.11, l.331. Thank you!

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) To illustrate the contribution of the three components used to calibrate the overall cost function, it would be informative to include simulation analyses in which each component is selectively removed (i.e., ablation analyses).

      We did not perform ablation analyses, as selectively removing components of the model can lead to instability or ill-suited control inputs, making the resulting simulations difficult to interpret. Instead, we conducted a sensitivity analysis of the key parameters shaping the overall cost function, including the estimated mean and deviation of the slow partner’s movement duration, the weight associated with uncertain torque minimization (Figs. S.18,S.19), and the fast partner’s cost of time (Fig. S20). This analysis reveals the predominant roles of the estimated slow partner movement patterns in determining the model predictions, in agreement with our experimental observations.

      (2) Although the authors refer to the motor-off condition as "passive," participants actively generated the movements in the absence of external forces. Thus, this condition corresponds to active, unassisted movement. A different term may therefore reduce potential confusion for readers.

      We agree that term “passive” was not well-chosen given the context of the paper, thus we have instead replaced this denomination as “null-field” condition. Consequently, the P1 and P2 blocks are now referred to as NF1 and NF2.

      (3) Please clarify the instructions given to participants. Were they informed in advance that their movements would physically interact with those of their partner?

      Thank you for pointing out this missing clarification. We have now specified in the Methods (p.14, l.465–469) that participants were not informed prior to any condition that they would interact with a human partner; they were only told that the robot would provide assistance. When debriefed at the end of the experiment, only one out of the 20 participants reported having realized that they were connected to another human. Most participants believed they were interacting either with a version of themselves or with a robot with some randomness.

      (4) Line 475. Should "Fig. 2D" be "Fig. 2B"?

      Thank you for catching this error. The reference has been corrected to Fig. 2B (see p.15, l.522).

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) The analysis of reaction times shows no difference between groups in the passive block, which challenges the assumption that movement vigor covaries with decision speed or action initiation speed. It may be worth discussing this in the context of recent literature.

      We agree that the initial analysis and discussion of reaction times were too superficial. In the revised manuscript, we now report that dyadic interaction leads to significantly shorter reaction times (p.4, l.100–109), concomitantly with improved movement velocity. We have also expanded the Discussion, on the relationship between decision and action speeds/durations (p.11, l.340–348).

      (2) Many abbreviations are unusual for a non-expert. I would recommend using the full terms instead. At least initially, I found it difficult to follow the results because the abbreviations were not immediately clear (at least to me).

      We agree that the paper had to many abbreviations. Therefore, we have removed the abbreviated names of the models and, when possible without impacting the readability, used the full names of the conditions.

      (3) Relatedly, the notation in Figure 1 may be confusing. The labels "S" and "F" (slow and fast) correspond to different concepts than "F" and "L" (follower and leader), so the same participant could be labeled "F" as fast but not "F" as a leader.

      Thank you for pointing out this potential source of confusion. We have therefore modified Fig. 1A (p.2) to avoid any potential confusion by using the full model names rather than abbreviations. In the remainder of the manuscript, "S" and "F" exclusively denote the slower and faster partners within a dyad, and we do not use abbreviations for "leader" or "follower" in the text.

      (4) In figures like 2.C and 3.I, keeping the same scales on the x and y axes and adding a diagonal reference line would make it easier to see shifts across conditions.

      As explained in the Methods, vigor scores in the low- and high-viscosity conditions were computed using the average movement durations from the NF1 condition as a reference. Consequently, because movements are slower in these conditions, the corresponding vigor values are lower than those in NF1. For this reason, using identical scales on the x- and y-axes and adding a 45◦ reference line could mislead the reader in thinking that the vigor scores are expected to be identical and reduce the readability of the figure.

      (5) Multiple hypotheses about dyadic regulation of vigor are nicely explained; it could help to indicate if any of these were a priori favored based on prior literature.

      Previous literature provides mixed evidence regarding how vigor might be regulated in dyadic interaction. For instance, Takagi et al. (2016) [15] reported that mechanically connected partners may rely on independent motor plans, which corresponds to the co-activity hypothesis considered here. However, in that study, movement duration was prescribed. We therefore expected that removing this constraint on movement duration could allow coordination strategies to emerge, particularly in view of findings on haptic communication during tracking of random targets while connected via an elastic band [13,14].

      At the same time, a large body of work on human–human and human–robot interaction has interpreted coordination through a leader–follower framework. In our context, vigor is understood as the outcome of a tradeoff between effort and elapsed time, with time being associated with a decaying reward. Based on this framework, we hypothesized a priori that a leader–follower scheme would emerge, in which the fast partner—being more sensitive to time costs and/or less sensitive to effort—would tend to drive the interaction, even at the expense of increased effort. For these reasons, the leader–follower hypothesis was formulated as the expected outcome throughout the manuscript.

      (6) In the introduction, statements such as "relative vigor of an individual is remarkably stable" appear true only in the solo condition. The same is true in the discussion where it is said that vigor is a stable trait. The whole study show that an individual can shift his/her vigor to the same vigor of another individual, so it doesn’t appear stable to me in such conditions but adaptable.

      Let us first clarify that when we describe vigor as “remarkably stable”, we do not imply that individuals do not adjust their movement timing in response to changes in external dynamics. For example, movement durations increase in visco-resistive conditions even during solo performance; nevertheless, individuals who move faster in the absence of resistance will remain faster relative to others when resistance is introduced. In this sense, stability refers to the preservation of relative rankings across conditions, rather than invariance of absolute movement timing. Because interaction with another individual constitutes a substantial change in task dynamics, an effect on individual pace is therefore expected.

      Told that (and as pointed to by the reviewer) (i) dyadic interactions lead to the emergence of a dyadic vigor characterized by average movement durations close to those of the fast partners, while the ranking across dyads is largely imposed by the slow partners; and (ii) these adaptations persist after the interaction phase. Importantly, the observed vigor adaptations appear to last longer in our physical interaction task than in previous attempts to manipulate vigor using visual feedback [16]. To account for this adaptability of vigor, we have (i) clarified claims in the Introduction regarding the stability of vigor (see p.1, l.18–20), and (ii) expanded the Discussion to more explicitly address vigor adaptability and the possible resulting consequences for the concept of vigor (see p.12, l.407–412).

      References

      (1) O. Labaune, T. Deroche, C. Teulier, and B. Berret, “Vigor of reaching, walking, and gazing movements: on the consistency of interindividual differences,” Journal of Neurophysiology, vol. 123, pp. 234–242, jan 2020.

      (2) L. Rigoux and E. Guigon, “A model of reward-and effort-based optimal decision making and motor control,” PLoS Computational Biology, vol. 8, pp. 1–13, Jan. 2012.

      (3) R. Shadmehr, J. J. O. de Xivry, M. Xu-Wilson, and T.-Y. Shih, “Temporal discounting of reward and the cost of time in motor control,” Journal of Neuroscience, vol. 30, pp. 10507–10516, aug 2010.

      (4) B. Berret and G. Baud-Bovy, “Evidence for a cost of time in the invigoration of isometric reaching movements,” Journal of Neurophysiology, vol. 127, pp. 689–701, feb 2022.

      (5) D. Verdel, O. Bruneau, G. Sahm, N. Vignais, and B. Berret, “The value of time in the invigoration of human movements when interacting with a robotic exoskeleton,” Science Advances, vol. 9, sep 2023.

      (6) K. Jimura, J. Myerson, J. Hilgard, T. S. Braver, and L. Green, “Are people really more patient than other animals? evidence from human discounting of real liquid rewards,” Psychonomic Bulletin & Review, vol. 16, pp. 1071–1075, dec 2009.

      (7) P. L. Gribble, L. I. Mullin, N. Cothros, and A. Mattar, “Role of cocontraction in arm movement accuracy,” Journal of Neurophysiology, vol. 89, pp. 2396–2405, may 2003.

      (8) B. Berret and F. Jean, “Why Don’t We Move Slower? The Value of Time in the Neural Control of Action,” Journal of Neuroscience, vol. 36, pp. 1056–1070, Jan. 2016.

      (9) R. Shadmehr and A. A. Ahmed, Vigor : neuroeconomics of movement control. The MIT Press, 2020.

      (10) D. Thura, A. M. Haith, G. Derosiere, and J. Duque, “The integrated control of decision and movement vigor,” Trends in Cognitive Sciences, vol. 29, pp. 1146–1157, Dec. 2025.

      (11) P. M. Fitts, “The information capacity of the human motor system in controlling the amplitude of movement,” Journal of Experimental Psychology, vol. 47, pp. 381–391, June 1954.

      (12) K. B. Reed and M. A. Peshkin, “Physical collaboration of human-human and human-robot teams,” IEEE Transactions on Haptics, vol. 1, pp. 108–120, July 2008.

      (13) G. Gowrishankar, A. Takagi, R. Osu, T. Yoshioka, M. Kawato, and E. Burdet, “Two is better than one: physical interactions improve motor performance in humans,” Scientific Reports, vol. 4, Jan. 2014.

      (14) A. Takagi, G. Ganesh, T. Yoshioka, M. Kawato, and E. Burdet, “Physically interacting individuals estimate the partner’s goal to enhance their movements,” Nature Human Behaviour, vol. 1, pp. 1–6, Mar. 2017.

      (15) A. Takagi, N. Beckers, and E. Burdet, “Motion plan changes predictably in dyadic reaching,” PLOS ONE, vol. 11, p. e0167314, Dec. 2016.

      (16) P. Mazzoni, B. Shabbott, and J. C. Cortes, “Motor control abnormalities in Parkinson’s disease,” Cold Spring Harbor Perspectives in Medicine, vol. 2, pp. a009282–a009282, Mar. 2012.

    1. Author response:

      Common responses:

      We thank the editors for considering our paper and the reviewers for their thoughtful and detailed feedback. Based on the comments, we will revise our manuscript to better describe how our approach differs from modeling strategies that are common in the field. We also aim to elaborate on the advantages of fastFMM and what scientific questions it is designed to answer. Finally, we will provide more background on our example analyses and the interpretation of the results.

      Within this response, “within-trial timepoints”, “time-varying predictors/behaviors”, and “signal magnitude” are used as specific examples of the general concepts of functional domain”, “functional co-variates”, and “functional outcome”, respectively. To make statements or examples more concrete, we may use the former neuroscience-specific terms when making general claims about functional models.

      - ncFLMM, cFLMM: non-concurrent or concurrent functional linear mixed models.

      - FUI: fast univariate inference. An approximation strategy to perform FLMM Cui et al. (2022).

      - fastFMM the R package that implements FUI.

      - CI confidence interval.

      Before specific line-by-line responses, we provide a brief comparison between cFLMM and fixed effects encoding models. All three reviewers suggested that fixed effects models could be an existing alternative to cFLMM (Reviewer 1 (1B), Reviewer 2 (2C), Reviewer 3 (3A)). Their shared comments highlight that our revision should articulate the advantages and applications of cFLMM relative to existing analysis strategies.

      Functional regression methods like cFLMM produce functional coefficient estimates that quantify how the magnitude of predictor-signal associations evolve across an ordered functional domain such as within-trial timepoints. Standard scalar outcome regression methods, like the GLMs specified in Engelhard et al. (2019), model these associations and their corresponding coefficients as fixed across the functional domain. While GLM encoding models may include time-varying predictors, these analysis strategies do not model the predictor–signal association as changing over the functional domain.

      Moreover, encoding models are less suited to hypothesis testing in clustered or longitudinal settings (e.g., repeated-measures datasets) and yield regression coefficient estimates that are only interpretable with respect to the units of the basis functions. In contrast, cFLMM provides time-varying coefficient estimates that are interpretable as statistical contrasts in terms of the original variables and produces hypothesis tests in clustered settings. cFLMM can be applied to datasets that define covariates in terms of the same flexible representations of covariates used in encoding models; this is a modeling choice rather than a methodological characteristic.

      The remainder of this provisional author response will respond to reviewers’ concerns line-by-line, approximately in the order they appear.

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      We thank Reviewer 1 for their comments, especially their efforts to provide first-hand experience with loading and applying fastFMM. We hope that recent improvements to fastFMM’s public release and vignettes address Reviewer 1’s concerns about ease-of-use.

      (1A) Overall, while they make a compelling case that this approach is less biased and more insightful, the implementation for many experimentalists remains challenging enough and may limit widespread adoption by the community.

      We believe the reviewer may have experimented with an old version of fastFMM, so their experience may not reflect recent rewrites and improvements. fastFMM v1.0.0+ is now stable, validated on CRAN, and contains new example data and step-by-step tutorials. We designed fastFMM’s model-fitting code to be similar to common GLM packages in R to reduce the learning curve for new users.

      (1B) …a clearer presentation of how common implementations in the field are performed (i.e. GLM) and how one could alternatively use the cFLMM approach would help.

      We will provide a clearer description of existing methods in the revised manuscript. Briefly, inference with fastFMM can accommodate large datasets that contain clustered data, repeated measures, or complex hierarchical effects, e.g., experiments with multiple animals and multiple trials per animal. When encoding models are fit to each cluster (e.g., animal, neuron) separately, we are not aware of a principled method to pool these cluster-specific models together to quantify uncertainty or yield an appropriate global hypothesis test.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Reviewer 2’s thoughtful feedback helped structure our points in the common response above, which we will refer to when applicable. In our response, we aim to clarify the problems that cFLMM solves and characterize the advantages in interpretability.

      (2A) The aim of incorporating variables that change within trial into this framework is interesting, and the technical implementation appears to be rigorous. However, I have some reservations as to whether the way in which variables that change within trial have been integrated into the analysis framework is likely to be widely useful, and hence how impactful the additional functionality of cFLMM relative to the previously published FLMM will be.

      We hope that the common response addresses these concerns. We were motivated to provide a concurrent extension of fastFMM based on our experience with statistical consulting in neuroscience research. Questions that benefit from a functional approach are common and often not adequately modeled with a non-concurrent approach, such as the variable trial length analysis we describe below.

      (2B) It is less clear that this approach makes sense for variables that change within trial…This partitioning of variance in the predictor into a between-trial component whose effect on the signal is modeled, and a within-trial component whose effect on the signal is not, is artificial in many experiment designs, and may yield hard to interpret results.

      We thank Reviewer 2 for highlighting a point that we did not adequately explain and that we will address further in the revision. The pointwise and joint CIs estimated by fastFMM account for uncertainty in the coefficient estimates due to variation in the predictors across within-trial timepoints. cFLMM targets a statistical quantity, or estimand, that is defined by trial timepoint specific effects, so the first step of our estimation strategy fits separate pointwise mixed models. However, models from every within-trial timepoint are then combined to calculate uncertainty and smooth the coefficient estimates. Thus, the widths of the pointwise and joint CIs depend on the estimated between-timepoint covariance and a smoothing penalty. Loewinger et al. (2025a) provides further details in Appendices 2 and 3, describing the covariance structure and detailing the power improvements of FUI compared to multiple-comparisons corrections.

      Other functional regression estimation strategies jointly fit the entire model with a single regression, e.g., functional generalized estimating equations Loewinger et al (2025b). However, these methods use basis expansions of the coefficients. In contrast, the encoding models mentioned in 2C below and Reviewer 3 (3A) apply basis-expansions of the covariates, and the resulting model does not capture how signal–covariate associations evolve across some functional domain. Although the first stage in the fastFMM approach fits pointwise linear models, this is only one of three steps in the estimation strategy. fastFMM yields coefficient estimates comparable to those that would be obtained from functional regression estimation strategies that jointly estimate the functional coefficients in a single regression. We mention this to distinguish between the target statistical quantity (functional coefficients) and the estimation strategy (pointwise vs. joint).

      (2C) …an alternative approach would be to run a single regression analysis across all timepoints, and capture the extended temporal responses to discrete behavioural events by using temporal basis functions convolved with the event timeseries. This provides a very flexible framework for capturing covariation of neural activity both with variables that change continuously such as position, and discrete behavioural events such as choices or outcomes, while also handling variable event timing from trial-to-trial.

      Our understanding is that the suggested approach aims to quantify the association between the outcome and within-trial patterns in covariates. This is a great question and we will incorporate a discussion of this into the revision. However, temporal basis functions convolved with the covariate time series cannot directly characterize these relationships. Encoding models can detect the contribution of predictors to neural signals while remaining agnostic to the precise relationship, but this flexibility can come at the cost of interpretability. The coefficients of the convolutions may not be translatable into a clear statistical contrast in terms of the original covariates.

      In our paper, we provide examples of cFLMM models with simple signal-covariate relationships. The coefficient estimates quantify the expected change in signal given a one unit change in the original predictors. Let 𝑌(𝑠) be the outcome and 𝑋(𝑠) be some covariate at within-trial timepoint 𝑠. For brevity, we will suppress subject/trial indices and random effects in the following notation. The coefficient at time point 𝑠 can be captured by the generic mean model

      𝔼[𝑌(𝑠) ∣ 𝑋(𝑠) = 1] − 𝔼[𝑌 (𝑥)|𝑋(𝑠) = 0].

      In contrast, the change in signal associated with patterns in within-trial covariates can be written as

      𝔼[𝑌 (𝑠<sub>1</sub>) ∣ 𝑋(𝑠<sub>2</sub>) = 1] − 𝔼[𝑌 (𝑠<sub>1</sub>) ∣ 𝑋(𝑠<sub>2</sub>) = 0]

      for all pairs of timepoints 𝑠<sub>1</sub>, 𝑠<sub>2</sub>. While simple lagged or offset outcome-predictor associations can be incorporated as covariates in cFLMM, the approach does not capture all within-trial timepoints 𝑠<sub>1</sub>, 𝑠<sub>2</sub>. Encoding models also do not target the above estimand. Instead, a full function-on-function regression could estimate the above. This topic can be incorporated into our revision and may be a future line of inquiry.

      (2D) In the Machen et al. data…From the resulting beta coefficient timeseries (Figure 3C) it is not straightforward to understand how neural activity changed as the subject approached and then received the reward. A simpler approach to quantify this, which I think would have yielded more interpretable coefficient timeseries would have been to align activity across trials on when the subject obtained the reward. More broadly, handling variable trial timing in analyses like FLMM which use trial aligned data, can be achieved either by separately aligning the data to different trial events of interest or by time warping the signal to align multiple important timepoints across trials.

      In this experiment, mice waited in a trigger zone, ran through a linear corridor, then received a food reward in the reward delivery zone of either water or strawberry milkshake Machen et al. (2026). Mice received different rewards between sessions but the same reward within all trials of a given session. This design complicated the analysis, as the reward type produced prominent differences in average latency (water: 3.3 seconds, milkshake: 2.0 seconds). The authors wanted to disentangle whether mean differences in the signal across reward types reflected differences in motivation to obtain the reward or differences in reaction to reward receipt.

      We agree that performing a reward-aligned analysis would be an intuitive approach to visualize the differences in average signal for mice that received milkshake compared to water. In fact, we provide a ncFLMM reward-aligned analysis in Figure S1 of Machen et al. (2025). We will add this analysis to the revision and thank the reviewer for the suggestion. We emphasize, however, that this method answers a different question. It does not identify how the signal change associated with receiving the milkshake evolves with respect to latency, especially if the relationship is non-linear. Time warping faces similar obstacles in this setting, especially since sufficiently flexible curve registration can induce similarity due purely to noise. Generally, time warping does not lend itself to hypothesis testing as it is unclear how to propagate uncertainty from the time warping model into final hypothesis tests.

      We believe cFLMM is an appropriate choice for the specific question, and we will revise the manuscript to better reflect its advantages. The functional coefficient estimates in Figures 3C-iii and 3C-iv provide insights that are not possible to derive from the proposed alternatives. For example, we can infer that for short latencies, we do not see a significant difference in signal magnitude for mice receiving water and mice receiving the milkshake. However, for latencies longer than around 2 seconds, receiving the milkshake is associated with an additional positive change in signal. We agree that we should make Figure 3C and the accompanying discussion more clear and thank Reviewer 2 for their feedback on interpretation.

      Reviewer 3 (Public review):

      (3A) …it is not clear what the conceptual or methodological advance of this work is. As it is written, the manuscript focuses on showing how concurrent regressors offer interpretation advantages over non-concurrent regressors. While the benefit of such time-varying regressors is supported by previous literature (e.g., Engelhard et al., 2020), it is not clear whether the examples provided in the current study clearly support the advantage of one over the other…

      We assume Reviewer 3 is referencing “Specialized coding of sensory, motor and cognitive variables in VTA dopamine neurons Engelhard et al. (2019). We hope that the Common response sufficiently contrasts the settings where each approach can be applied. Because these models have different goals and assumptions, they are appropriate for answering different questions.

      (3B) In this specific example, if the question is about speed and reward type, why variables such as latency to reward or a binary “reward zone vs corridor” (RZ) regressors are used instead of concurrent velocity (or peak velocity - in the case of the non-concurrent model)? Furthermore, if timing from trial start to reward collection is variable, why not align to reward collection, which would help in the interpretation of the signal and comparison between methods? Furthermore, while for the non-concurrent method, the regressors' coefficients are shown, for the concurrent one, what seems to be plotted are contrasts rather than the coefficients. The authors further acknowledge the interpretational difficulties of their analysis.

      Thank you for pointing out that we were not clear. This was mentioned by multiple reviewers and highlights the need to elaborate on our motivation in the revision. In this example, we wanted to investigate the change in signal-reward association as a function of within-trial timepoints, not the association between instantaneous velocity and the signal. “Slow” or “fast” means “mouse with below or above average latency”. We ask you to please refer to Reviewer 2 (2C) where we discuss why event alignment is an insufficient correction.

      The functional coefficient estimates in Figure 3C are interpreted as contrasts because the fixed effect coefficients capture the difference in expected signal between strawberry milkshake and water along the functional domain. An advantage of cFLMM is that it is easy to specify models in which the coefficients correspond to interpretable contrasts of the signal across conditions. The coefficient estimate shown in Figure 3B-ii also corresponds to a contrast because the estimates capture the difference in mean signal from strawberry milkshake and water. Equations (7) and (8) in the section “Materials and methods” and sub-section “Variable trial length analysis” provide additional details on the fixed effect coefficients. Based on this confusion, we will convert the two 1 x 4 sub-plots of 3B and 3C into two 2 x 2 sub-plots to avoid unintended direct comparisons.

      To contextualize how we “acknowledge the interpretational difficulties of [our] analysis”, we stated that a non-concurrent FLMM attempting to control for a time-based covariate is difficult to interpret. The concurrent FLMM provides a straightforward interpretation directly related to the question of interest, which we discuss above in Reviewer 2 (2D).

      (3C) Because the relation between behavioral variables and neuronal signal is not instantaneous, previous literature using fixed effects uses, for example, different temporal lags, splines, and convolutional kernels; however, these are not discussed in the manuscript.

      Thank you for this suggestion. All three reviewers raised this topic (see Reviewer 1 (1B), Reviewer 2 (2C), and the Common responses), and we will incorporate our response in the revision.

      (3D) From the methods, it seems that in the concurrent version of fastFMM, both concurrent and non-concurrent regressors can be included, but this is not discussed in the manuscript.

      This is an important point that we mentioned implicitly. In our cFLMM specification of the Jeong et al. (2022) model, “we incorporated trial-specific covariates for trial number and session, modeling these as increasing numerical values rather than identical categorical variables”, which are also plotted in Appendix 3. In Box 1, “if the functional covariate of interest is a scalar constant across the domain, the models fit by the concurrent and non-concurrent procedure are identical”. We will explicitly point out that cFLMM can perform inference on combinations of functional and constant covariates.

      (3E) The methodological advance is not clearly stated, apart from inputting into fastFMM a 3D matrix of regressors x trial x timepoint, instead of a 2D matrix of regressors x trial.

      Prior to our work described in this Research Advance, it was not obvious that the existing approximation approach in fastFMM could be generalized to cFLMM. During the writing of the article, a fastFMM user reached out for help with producing pseudo-concurrent FLMMs by duplicating rows in a nonconcurrent model, which both underscores the unmet need for cFLMMs and the difficulty in fitting them with available tools.

      The “under-the-hood” differences are described in Appendix 4. Concurrent FLMM with fast univariate inference was theoretically possible as early as Cui et al. (2022). The univariate step was straightforward, but guaranteeing “fast” and “inference” was not. We needed to verify, for example, that the method-of-moments estimation of the random effects covariance matrix generalized to cFLMM, which is not a trivial step. Characterizing whether the method achieved asymptotic coverage required extensive simulation studies (Figure 4, Appendix 2). Future work may focus on fully characterizing the asymptotic convergence in high noise or high complexity regimes.

      (3F) This manuscript is neither a clear demonstration of the need for concurrent variables, nor a 'tutorial' of how to use fastFMM with the added extension.

      We hope that the Common responses clarifies how cFLMM compares to existing approaches and fills a gap in the data analysis landscape for neuroscience. The fastFMM R package vignettes contain example analyses, and we intend for these files to be work in tandem with the manuscript. To provide more guidance for interested analysts, we can explicitly reference these tutorials within the revision.

      Planned revisions

      The following summary is not exhaustive.

      Writing additions:

      Per 1B, 2C and 3A, the Common responses will be incorporated in the revision.

      Per 2B, we will discuss function-on-function regression and explore how to estimate statistical contrasts for complex within-trial relationships. Relatedly, we will clarify that the CIs in fastFMM are constructed using an estimate of the within-trial covariance of the predictors, and clarify the definition of pointwise and joint CIs.

      Per 3D, we will explicitly state that concurrent FLMMs can include covariates that are constant over within-trial timepoints.

      Though we cannot prescribe a universally correct model selection procedure, we will mention that AIC, BIC, and other summary statistics can inform the specification of the random effects.

      Analysis modifications:

      Parts of Appendix 3 may be included in Figure 2 to directly address the question investigated by Jeong et al. (2022) and Loewinger et al (2024).

      When discussing Machen et al. (2025) data, the supplementary analysis with reward-aligned ncFLMM models might be added to clarify the ncFLMM/cFLMM difference.

      Per \ref{rvw2:encoding}, the additional analysis aimed at disentangling latency and reward in Machen et al.’s variable trial length data may be incorporated as an additional sub-figure in Figure 3.

      Aesthetic changes:

      Figure 3 will be reorganized to avoid unintended direct comparisons between the coefficients of the non-concurrent and concurrent model.

      Citations for Machen et al. (2026) will be updated to reflect publication of the preprint.

      The version number for fastFMM will be updated.

      References

      Cui E, Leroux A, Smirnova E, Crainiceanu CM. Fast Univariate Inference for Longitudinal Functional Models. Journal of Computational and Graphical Statistics. 2022; 31(1):219–230. https://doi.org/10.1080/10618600.2021.1950006, doi: 10.1080/10618600.2021.1950006, pMID: 35712524.

      Engelhard B, Finkelstein J, Cox J, Fleming W, Jang HJ, Ornelas S, Koay SA, Thiberge SY, Daw ND, Tank DW, Witten IB. Specialized coding of sensory, motor and cognitive variables in VTA dopamine neurons. Nature. 2019 Jun; 570(7762):509–513. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1261-9, doi: 10.1038/s41586-019-1261-9.

      Jeong H, Taylor A, Floeder JR, Lohmann M, Mihalas S, Wu B, Zhou M, Burke DA, Namboodiri VMK. Mesolimbic dopamine release conveys causal associations. Science. 2022; 378(6626):eabq6740. https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.abq6740, doi: 10.1126/science.abq6740.

      Loewinger G, Cui E, Lovinger D, Pereira F. A statistical framework for analysis of trial-level temporal dynamics in fiber photometry experiments. eLife. 2025 Mar; 13:RP95802. doi: 10.7554/eLife.95802.

      Loewinger G, Levis AW, Cui E, Pereira F. Fast Penalized Generalized Estimating Equations for Large Longitudinal Functional Datasets. ArXiv. 2025 Jun; p. arXiv:2506.20437v1. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12306803/.

      Machen B, Miller SN, Xin A, Lampert C, Assaf L, Tucker J, Herrell S, Pereira F, Loewinger G, Beas S. The encoding of interoceptive-based predictions by the paraventricular nucleus of the thalamus D2R+ neurons. iScience. 2026 Jan; 29(1):114390. doi: 10.1016/j.isci.2025.114390.

    1. Author response:

      Reviewer #1:

      We appreciate the reviewer’s suggestions. In the revision, we will clarify which results are new and better position this work relative to our earlier publication. We will also expand the discussion of the functional implications of polymerase clustering and its cell-cycle dynamics.

      Regarding the condensate interpretation, we agree that the current evidence is suggestive but not definitive. In the revised manuscript, we will clarify how our measurements relate to commonly used criteria for condensate assemblies and revise the text to avoid overstating this interpretation. We will also add quantification to additional figures and revise the model diagram to more accurately reflect the conclusions supported by the data.

      Reviewer #2:

      We thank the reviewer for the positive assessment of the imaging quality. We agree that the manuscript would benefit from a broader discussion of possible models for the observed polymerase foci. In the revision, we will expand the discussion to include alternative interpretations, such scaffolded assemblies as suggested by the reviewer 3, and further clarify the properties of the RNA Pol II and RNA Pol III foci.

      Reviewer #3:

      We thank the reviewer for the positive evaluation of the study and the helpful suggestions. We agree that the current evidence is indicative but not sufficient to definitively demonstrate condensate formation. In the revision, we will revise the language and discuss alternative interpretations, including scaffolded assemblies. We will also provide additional quantifications for the relevant figures.

      Overall, we appreciate the reviewers’ suggestions and believe that the planned revisions will improve the clarity and impact of the manuscript.

    1. Author response:

      Reviewer #1:

      We appreciate the reviewer’s insightful suggestions. In the revised manuscript, we will provide quantitative analysis of Western blot data throughout the study to improve data robustness and reproducibility. In addition, we will expand the “Discussion” session to address the following points raised by the reviewer #1: (1) Potential mechanisms underlying the regulation of LAMP1 transcript levels by NINJ2; (2) Whether Ninjurin1 may play a similar role in regulating lysosomal membrane permeabilization (LMP); (3) The potential clinical implications of our findings, particularly in relation to cancer progression and therapeutic targeting.

      Reviewer #2:

      We thank the reviewer for the insightful and constructive suggestions, which would further deepen the mechanistic understanding of the NINJ2-LAMP1 pathway and its role in ferroptosis regulation. To address the reviewer’s concerns, we will clarify the interpretation of our findings, add quantitative analyses where appropriate, and expand the Discussion to acknowledge these important mechanistic questions and future research directions. Specifically, we will revise the Statistical Analysis section to clearly describe the statistical methods used, including whether corrections for multiple comparisons were applied where appropriate. We will further discuss the potential interaction domain(s) between NINJ2 and LAMP1. We will also discuss the potential role of NCOA4, a central mediator of ferritinophagy, in the NINJ2-FTH1-LAMP1 pathway. Finally, we will include a schematic model summarizing the proposed NINJ2-LAMP1-iron-ferroptosis axis to better illustrate the working model of our study.

    1. Author response:

      Reviewer 1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study aims to test whether human mate choice is influenced by HLA similarity while accounting for genome-wide relatedness, using the Himba as an evolutionarily relevant small-scale society population, unique among most HLA-mate choice studies. By comparing self-chosen ("love") and arranged marriages and using NGS-based 8-locus HLA class I and II sequences and genome-wide SNP data, the authors ask whether partners who freely choose each other are more HLA-dissimilar than those paired through social arrangements or random pairs. They further extend their work by examining functional differences in peptide-binding divergence among pairs and predicted pathogen recognition in potential offspring.

      Strengths:

      This study has many strengths. The most obvious is their ability to test for HLA-based mate choice in the Himba, a non-European, non-admixed, small-scale society population, the type of population that has been missing, in my opinion, from the majority of HLA mate choice studies. While Hedrick and Black (1997) used a similarly evolutionarily relevant remote tribe of native South Americans, they only considered 2 class I loci (HLA-A and HLA-B) at the first typing field (serological allele group) and did not have data for genome-wide relatedness. The Himba are also unique among previously studied populations because they have both socially arranged and self-chosen partnerships, so the authors could test if freely-chosen partners had lower MHC-similarity than assigned or randomly chosen partners.

      Another key strength of the study was the relatively large sample size (HLA allele calls from 366 individuals, 102 unrelated) and 219 individuals with HLA data, whole genome SNP data, and involved in a partnership.

      The study was also unique among HLA-mate choice studies for comparing peptide binding region protein divergence (calculated as the Grantham distance between amino acid sequences) among partner types and randomly generated pairs. This was also the first time I have seen a study use peptide binding prediction analysis of relevant human pathogens for potential offspring among partners to test if there would be a pathogen-relevant fitness benefit of partner selection.

      Weaknesses:

      My main concerns relate to the reliance on imputed HLA haplotypes and on IBD-based metrics in a region of the genome where both approaches are known to be problematic.

      First, several key results depend on HLA haplotypes inferred through imputation rather than directly observed sequence data. The authors trained HIBAG imputation models on Himba SNP data across the full 5 Mb HLA region using paired HLA allele calls from target capture sequencing (L251-253). However, the underlying SNP data were generated by mapping reads to a 1000 Genomes Yoruba reference, meaning that both SNP discovery and subsequent imputation depend on the haplotypes represented in that reference panel. As a result, the imputation framework is likely biased toward common haplotypes shared between the Himba and Yoruba populations, while rare or Himba-specific HLA alleles are less likely to be imputed accurately or at all. This limitation has been noted previously for HLA imputation, particularly for novel or low-frequency variants and for populations that are poorly represented in reference panels. While the authors compare (first-field) imputed alleles to sequenced alleles to assess imputation accuracy, this validation step itself may be biased toward the same common haplotypes that are easiest to impute. This becomes especially problematic if IBD is inferred using imputed haplotypes, because haplotype sharing would then primarily reflect common, reference-supported haplotypes, while true population-specific variation would be effectively invisible. In this scenario, downstream estimates of IBD sharing may be inflated for common haplotypes and deflated for rare ones, potentially biasing conclusions about haplotype sharing, selection, and mate choice at the HLA region.

      We appreciate the reviewer's concern, but would like to clarify two important misunderstandings in this assessment.

      First, the reviewer suggests that our SNP data were generated by mapping reads to a 1000 Genomes Yoruba reference, and that IBD inference may therefore be biased toward haplotypes common between the Himba and Yoruba. This is not the case. Our SNP genotype data were generated from the H3Africa and MEGAex genotyping arrays, which incorporated diverse reference variation to minimize ascertainment bias in non-European ancestries. No read mapping to a Yoruba reference genome was involved in SNP discovery or genotyping. The Yoruba 1000 Genomes data were used solely to provide an ancestry-matched recombination map for phasing and IBD calling–this would not bias IBD inference toward common Yoruba haplotypes. The reviewer's concern about imputation-driven inflation of IBD sharing for common haplotypes should not be relevant in our case.

      Second, regarding HLA haplotype resolution: we trained a bespoke HIBAG model directly on the Himba SNP array genotype data paired with ground-truth HLA allele calls from our own targeted HLA capture sequencing. This Himba-specific model was then used to impute HLA alleles from pseudo-homozygous genotypes derived by extracting phased SNP-based haplotypes across the HLA region for the same individuals. In this way we resolved the phase of the HLA allele calls.. To our knowledge, this paired-data approach to individual-level HLA haplotype resolution is novel; existing HLA haplotype resolution tools generally provide only population-level haplotype frequency estimates rather than individual-level phase assignments. We are confident in the reliability of the haplotypes we report. Resolved haplotypes were required to match the known targeted-sequencing HLA allele calls at a minimum of the first field for at least one allele, and both haplotypes could not be assigned to the same allele unless the individual's HLA allele calls were homozygous. Of 722 total haplotypes, 698 were successfully resolved under these criteria. We report results only on these confidently resolved haplotypes.

      Second, the interpretation of excess identity-by-descent (IBD) sharing in the HLA region is difficult given the well-documented genomic properties of this locus. The classical HLA region is highly gene-dense, structurally complex, and characterized by extreme heterogeneity in recombination rates, with pronounced hot- and cold-spots (Miretti et al. 2005; de Bakker et al. 2006, reviewed in Radwan et al. 2020). Elevated IBD in such regions can arise from low recombination, background selection, or demographic processes such as bottlenecks, all of which can mimic signals of recent positive selection. While the authors suggest fluctuating or directional selection, extensive haplotype sharing is also consistent with long-term balancing selection at the MHC (Albrechtsen et al. 2010) or recent demographic history in this population.

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting the difficulty in modeling selection at the HLA - a problem that deserves considerable attention. We acknowledge that demographic processes such as the documented Himba population bottleneck can result in elevated IBD sharing (Swinford et al. 2023, PNAS). However, our comparison of HLA IBD sharing rates against a genome-wide baseline is designed to address this: demographic processes affect all regions of the genome, so if the HLA region maintains elevated IBD sharing significantly above the genome-wide threshold, this provides meaningful evidence for a locus-specific effect beyond demographic history alone.

      We agree with the reviewer that the recombination landscape of the HLA region is complex, but this complexity itself is consistent with the region being a frequent target of selection. Previous HLA analyses have found that at the allele level, frequencies are consistent with balancing selection, while multi-locus haplotype frequencies are consistent with purifying selection and positive frequency-dependent selection (Alter et al., 2017), patterns that contribute to the complex recombination rate heterogeneity observed in the region. Recombination rate can be both a cause of extended haplotypes but also the consequence of selection against combinations of alleles.

      As Alter et al. note, the high levels of linkage disequilibrium observed among HLA alleles serve to limit the amount of diversity within HLA haplotypes, but balancing selection at the allelic level maintains multiple HLA haplotypes at high frequency across populations over long periods of time — so-called "conserved extended haplotypes" as we observe (Supplementary Figures 1 and 9). Regarding the specific selective mechanism, our results are not equally consistent with all forms of balancing selection. Albrechtsen et al. (2010) explicitly modeled overdominant balancing selection and demonstrated that equilibrium overdominance does not produce elevated IBD sharing as we observe — our results are therefore inconsistent with this mechanism. Instead, Albrechtsen et al. conclude that allele frequency change is required to generate elevated IBD, consistent with bouts of directional selection such as negative frequency-dependent or fluctuating positive selection. We will make explicit that while our findings do not support overdominance, they are consistent with these temporally dynamic forms of selection driving periodic allele frequency change at the HLA locus. We will also incorporate local recombination rate into Figure 4 to provide a comparison of local recombination rate across chromosome 6 with the observed areas of elevated IBD sharing.

      Alter, I., Gragert, L., Fingerson, S., Maiers, M., & Louzoun, Y. (2017). HLA class I haplotype diversity is consistent with selection for frequent existing haplotypes. PLoS computational biology, 13(8), e1005693.

      Beyond these main issues, there are several additional concerns that affect interpretation. Sample sizes and partnership counts are sometimes unclear; some figures would benefit from clearer scaling (Figure 1) and annotation (Figures S6 and S7), and key methodological choices (e.g., treatment of DRB copy number variation, no recombination correction in IBD calling) require further explanation. Finally, some conclusions, particularly those invoking optimality or specific selective mechanisms, are not directly tested by the analyses presented and would benefit from more cautious framing.

      We will clarify the presentation of partnership counts and sample sizes throughout the manuscript and improve the scaling and annotation of the flagged figures. Regarding DRB copy number variation, we will add explicit discussion of our analytical choices and their potential limitations. As described in our responses to the main concerns above, we will also provide more nuanced framing of the selective mechanisms consistent with our IBD results, avoiding conclusions that go beyond what our analyses directly support.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Evidence for the influence of MHC on mate choice in humans is challenging, as social structures and norms often confound the power of studying populations. This study uses an unusual, diverse, but relatively isolated population that allows a direct comparison of arranged and chosen partners to determine if MHC diversity is increased when choice drives mate choice. Overall, the authors use a range of genetic analyses to determine individual relationships alongside different measures of MHC diversity and potential selection pressures. The overall finding that there is no heterozygous dissimilarity difference between arranged and chosen partners. There is evidence of positive selection that may be a stronger driver, or at least it may mask other selection forces.

      Strengths:

      A rare opportunity to study human mate choice and genetic diversity. An excellent range of data and analysis that is well applied, and all results point to the same conclusion.

      Overall, this is a very well-written and concise paper when considering the significant amount of data and excellent analysis that has been undertaken.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) For the type of samples and data available, none are obvious.

      (2) Although this paper is clearly focused on humans, I was expecting more discussion around the studies that have been undertaken in animals. It is likely that between populations and species, there are different pressures that have driven the MHC evolution, but also mate choice.

      We will improve the framing of our project within the broader non-human MHC mate choice literature in our discussion.

      (3) The peptide presentation based on pathogen genomes is interesting but usually not significant. I wondered if another measure of MHC haplotype diversity to complement this would be the overall repertoire of peptides that could be presented, pathogen-based or otherwise. There is usually significant overlap in the peptides that can be presented, for example, between HLA-A and HLA-B, and this may reveal more significant differences between the alleles and haplotype frequencies.

      We would like to clarify that we did assess the unique pathogen peptides bound across all HLA class I and class II genes by each population's common haplotypes (Figures S12–S13). We acknowledge the reviewer's point that non-pathogenic peptides are also important — for example, binding with self-produced proteins. However, binding with self-produced proteins is more relevant to autoimmune risk, and the selective pressures involved are outside the scope of our current work, which focuses on pathogen-induced fluctuating directional selection and heterozygote advantage. Furthermore, selection on non-pathogenic peptide binding repertoires likely operates in the opposite direction to pathogen repertoire; whereas broader pathogen peptide binding is advantageous, broader self-peptide binding risks excessive immune activation.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      The study investigates MHC-related mate choice in humans using a sample of couples from a small-scale sub-Saharan society. This is an important endeavour, as the vast majority of previous studies have been based on samples from complex, highly structured societies that are unlikely to reflect most of human evolutionary history. Moreover, the study controls for genome-wide diversity, allowing for a test of the specificity of the MHC region, as theoretically predicted. Finally, the authors examine potential fitness benefits by analysing predicted pathogen-binding affinities. Across all analyses, no deviations from random pairing are detected, suggesting a limited role for MHC-related mate choice in a relatively homogeneous society. Overall, I find the study to be carefully executed, and the paper clearly written. Nevertheless, I believe the paper would benefit if the following points were considered:

      (1) The authors claim (p. 2, l. 85) that their study is the first to employ a non-European small-scale society. I believe this claim is incorrect, as Hendrick and Black (1997) investigated MHC similarity among couples from South American indigenous populations.

      We thank the reviewer for this important clarification. Our claim was intended to be more specific: to our knowledge, this is the first study to investigate HLA-based mate preferences in a non-European small-scale society while explicitly controlling for genome-wide relatedness. Hedrick and Black (1997) did not include genome-wide relatedness controls, which is a critical distinction given that ancestry-assortative mating can produce spurious patterns of HLA similarity or dissimilarity in the absence of such correction. We will make this qualification explicit in the revised manuscript.

      (2) Regarding the argument that in complex societies, mating with a random individual would already result in sufficient MHC dissimilarity (p. 2, 78), see the paper from Croy et al. 2020, which used the largest sample to date in this research area.

      We thank the reviewer for this reference. In our revision, we will incorporate Croy et al. (2020) into our discussion and use it as a reference for comparing the Himba’s probability of highly homozygous offspring given population allele frequencies. This comparison will help support our claim that background HLA diversity in the Himba is sufficiently high so that any unrelated partner is already likely to yield adequately dissimilar offspring—a scenario that would reduce the selective benefit of active HLA-based mate choice and could mask any such preference even if it exists.

      (3) Dataset. As some relationships are parallel, I assume that certain individuals entered the dataset multiple times. This should be explicitly reported in the Methods. If I understand the analyses correctly, this non-independence was addressed by including individual identity as a random effect in the model - the authors should confirm whether this is the case. I am also wondering to what extent so-called "discovered partnerships" may affect the results. Shared offspring may be the outcome of short or transient affairs and could have a different social status compared with other informal relationships. Would the observed patterns change if these partnerships were excluded from the analyses?

      The reviewer is correct that individuals appear multiple times in the dataset—some individuals are members of multiple known partnerships, and all individuals are additionally included many times across the full set of possible random heterosexual pairings that meet our age and relatedness criteria. This non-independence is explicitly addressed in our dyadic linear mixed models by including female ID and male ID as random effects, which account for each individual's unique contribution to their similarity scores across all pairings, both real and random. We explain this explicitly in the (n) Statistical Models section of the methods section.

      Regarding discovered partnerships: we grouped these with reported informal partnerships in the current analyses due to modest sample sizes. We agree this is worth examining more carefully and will test, in our revision, whether treating discovered partnerships as a separate category, or excluding them entirely, meaningfully affects our results. We will report these analyses as a sensitivity check.

      (4) How many pairs were due to relatedness closer than 3rd degree? In addition, why was 4th degree relatedness used as a threshold in some of the other analyses?

      This information is reported in the (n) ‘Statistical Models section of the Methods’. No pairs were found to be closer than 3rd degree relatives. No arranged marriages were related at 3rd degree or closer; 1 love match marriage and 2 informal partnerships discovered through pedigree analysis were found to be 3rd degree relatives.

      Regarding the difference in relatedness thresholds: we used a 4th degree cutoff to define the unrelated set of individuals for allele and haplotype frequency analyses (n=102), as even 3rd degree relatives would inflate allele frequency estimates. In contrast, we permitted 3rd degree relatives in the background distribution for the partnership analyses to reflect the stated cultural preference for cousin marriages in arranged unions—excluding them would have made the background distribution less representative of the actual mating pool. We explain both decisions in Methods sections (d) and (n).

      (5) I was surprised by the exclusion of HIV, given that Namibia has a very high prevalence of HIV in the general population (e.g., Low et al. 2021).

      While HIV prevalence is indeed high in Namibia generally, the Himba are a relatively isolated population and, based on personal communication with Dr. Ashley Hazel—who has extensive field experience studying sexually transmitted infections in the Himba (see references 36, 52, 53, and 54)—there is no evidence of HIV transmission within this population. Dr. Hazel's expertise on this question was the basis for our exclusion of HIV from the pathogen list.

      (6) It appears that age criteria were applied when generating random pairs (p. 8, l. 350). Could the authors please specify what they consider a realistic age gap, and on what basis this threshold was chosen? As these are virtual couples used solely to estimate random variation within the population, it is not entirely clear why age constraints are necessary. Would the observed patterns change if no age criteria were applied?

      We will clarify this in our revision, but we restricted random couples to have an age gap within the range observed in actual, known partnerships (the woman is maximum 16 years older than then man and minimum 53 years younger than the man). We included this criteria to make sure random couples represented the best approximation of background, realistic partners. Our age gap criteria was quite permissive due to the large range observed in our actual pairs and we do not imagine it significantly impacted our results.

      (7) I think it would be helpful for readers if the Results section explicitly stated that real couples did not differ from randomly generated pairs. At present, only the comparison between chosen and arranged pairs is reported.

      We would like to clarify that for each analysis we explicitly report both the effects of chosen and arranged partnerships relative to the background distribution intercept, and the pairwise contrast between chosen and arranged partnerships. The intercept of each model is derived from the full background distribution of random opposite-sex pairings meeting our age and relatedness criteria, providing a null expectation under random mating. A non-significant effect for both partnership types therefore indicates that neither arranged nor chosen partnerships differ from random mating with respect to the metric in question. We describe this explicitly in the Statistical Models section of the Methods, but we will ensure this interpretation is stated more prominently in the Results section of the revised manuscript to avoid any confusion.

      (8) I appreciate the separate analyses of pathogen-binding properties for MHC class I and class II, given their functional distinctiveness. For the same reason, I would welcome a parallel analysis of MHC sharing conducted separately for class I and class II loci.

      We can incorporate separate HLA similarity/log odds of homozygous offspring analyses for class 1 and class 2 in our revision.

      (9) I think the Discussion would benefit from a more detailed comparison with previous studies. In addition, the manuscript does not explicitly address limitations of the current study, including the relatively limited sample size given the extensive polymorphism in the MHC region.

      We will expand our discussion in the revision to provide a more detailed comparison with previous studies, including Croy et al. (2020), and will add an explicit limitations section incorporating suggestions from multiple reviewers on more careful framing of optimality and specific selective mechanisms. Regarding sample size, we acknowledge this as a genuine limitation given the extensive polymorphism of the MHC region. However, our unrelated sample size used for allelic diversity estimated is comparable to previous studies in African populations (Figure 1), and our dataset is uniquely comprehensive in combining HLA class I, class II, genome-wide SNP data, and partnership data within the same individuals—a combination that enables the genome-wide relatedness correction that distinguishes our study from much of the prior literature.

      References

      Hedrick, P. W., & Black, F. L. (1997). HLA and mate selection: no evidence in South Amerindians. The American Journal of Human Genetics, 61(3), 505-511.

      Croy, I., Ritschel, G., Kreßner-Kiel, D., Schäfer, L., Hummel, T., Havlíček, J., ... & Schmidt, A. H. (2020). Marriage does not relate to major histocompatibility complex: A genetic analysis based on 3691 couples. Proceedings of the Royal Society B, 287(1936), 20201800.

      Low, A., Sachathep, K., Rutherford, G., Nitschke, A. M., Wolkon, A., Banda, K., ... & Mutenda, N. (2021). Migration in Namibia and its association with HIV acquisition and treatment outcomes. PLoS One, 16(9), e0256865.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The current study by Xing et al. establishes the methodology (machine vision and gaze pose estimation) and behavioral apparatus for examining social interactions between pairs of marmoset monkeys. Their results enable unrestrained social interactions under more rigorous conditions with detailed quantification of position and gaze. It has been difficult to study social interactions using artificial stimuli, as opposed to genuine interactions between unrestrained animals. This study makes an important contribution for studying social neuroscience within a laboratory setting that will be valuable to the field.

      Strengths:

      Marmosets are an ideal species for studying primate social interactions due to their prosocial behavior and the ease of group housing within laboratory environments. They also predominantly orient their gaze through head movements during social monitoring. Recent advances in machine vision pose estimation set the stage for estimating 3D gaze position in marmosets but require additional innovation beyond DeepLabCut or equivalent methods. A six-point facial frame is designed to accurately fit marmoset head gaze. A key assumption in the study is that head gaze is a reliable indicator of the marmoset's gaze direction, which will also depend on the eye position. Overall, this assumption has been well supported by recent studies in head-free marmosets. Thus the current work introduces an important methodology for leveraging machine vision to track head gaze and demonstrates its utility for use with interacting marmoset dyads as a first step in that study.

      Weaknesses:

      One weakness that should be easily addressed is that no data is provided to directly assess how accurate the estimated head gaze is based on calibrations of the animals, for example, when they are looking at discrete locations like faces or video on a monitor. This would be useful to get an upper bound on how accurate the 3D gaze vector is estimated to be, for planned use in other studies. Although the accuracy appears sufficient for the current results, it would be difficult to know if it could be applied in other contexts where more precision might be necessary.

      Please see our detailed responses to the reviewer comments below.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript describes novel technique development and experiments to track the social gaze of marmosets. The authors used video tracking of multiple cameras in pairs of marmosets to infer head orientation and gaze and then studied gaze direction as a function of distance between animals, relationships, and social conditions/stimuli.

      Strengths:

      Overall the work is interesting and well done. It addresses an area of growing interest in animal social behavior, an area that has largely been dominated by research in rodents and other non-primate species. In particular, this work addresses something that is uniquely primate (perhaps not unique, but not studied much in other laboratory model organisms), which is that primates, like humans, look at each other, and this gaze is an important social cue of their interactions. As such, the presented work is an important advance and addition to the literature that will allow more sophisticated quantification of animal behaviors. I am particularly enthusiastic with how the authors approach the cone of uncertainty in gaze, which can be both due to some error in head orientation measurements as well as variable eye position.

      Weaknesses:

      There are a few technical points in need of clarification, both in terms of the robustness of the gaze estimate, and possible confounds by gaze to non-face targets which may have relevance but are not discussed. These are relatively minor, and more suggestions than anything else.

      Please see our detailed responses to the reviewer comments below.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Major comments:

      (1) It appears that the accuracy of the estimated gaze angle must be well under the size of the gaze cone (+/- 10 degrees), but I can't find any direct estimate of the accuracy even if it is just a ballpark figure. On Lines 219-233 is where performance is described for viewing images and video on a monitor, where it should be possible to reconstruct the point of gaze on the monitor while images and video are shown, in order to evaluate the accuracy of the system for where the marmoset is looking? Would you see eye position traces that would show fixation clusters around those images or videos with stationary points on the monitor much like that seen for head-fixed animals looking at faces on a screen (Mitchell et al, 2014)? If so, what is the typical spread of those clusters during fixations on an image, both in terms of the precision by RMS error during a fixation epoch and the spread around the images at different locations (accuracy of projection)? For example, if gaze clusters were always above the displayed images one would have an idea that the face plane is slightly offset above the true gaze direction. It is not completely clear how well the face plane and corresponding gaze cone do in describing gaze direction in space, but the monitor stimuli could be used as an initial validation of it.

      We thank the reviewer for this important suggestion regarding the quantitative validation of gaze accuracy. We agree that, when animals view stimuli presented on a monitor, the estimated gaze direction can be evaluated by examining the spatial distribution of gaze–monitor intersection points relative to stimulus locations.

      To address this, we generated a new figure (Fig. S2A) analyzing gaze behavior following the onset of video stimuli presented at different locations on the monitor. Specifically, we selected video clips in which human annotators verified that the marmosets were looking at the monitor. Consistent with prior work in head-fixed marmosets (Mitchell et al., 2014), we observe clustering of gaze–monitor intersection centers within and around the corresponding stimulus locations after stimulus onset. These clusters provide an empirical validation that the estimated gaze direction aligns with stimulus position in space.

      Importantly, unlike the head-fixed preparation used in Mitchell et al. (2014), marmosets in our study were freely moving. As a result, they do not exhibit prolonged, stationary fixations on the monitor, and fixation clusters are therefore more diffuse. This increased spread reflects natural head and body motion rather than limitations of the gaze estimation method itself. Despite this, gaze intersection points remain spatially localized to the vicinity of the presented stimuli across different monitor locations.

      We did observe small offsets in some gaze clusters relative to stimulus centers; however, these offsets were not systematic across stimulus locations or animals. Crucially, there was no consistent bias (e.g., clusters appearing uniformly above or below stimuli) that would indicate a systematic misalignment of the face plane or gaze cone relative to true gaze direction. Together, these observations support the conclusion that the face-plane-based gaze cone provides an accurate estimate of gaze direction in space, with precision well within the ±10° aperture of the gaze cone.

      While the freely moving component of the behavior precludes direct estimation of fixation RMS error comparable to head-fixed paradigms, the observed stimulus-locked clustering serves as an initial validation of both the accuracy and practical utility of our approach under naturalistic conditions.

      (2) A second major comment is about clarity in the writing of the results and discussion. At the end of the manuscript, a major takeaway is the difference between familiar and unfamiliar dyads, that males show more interest in viewing females including unfamiliar females, but for familiar females, this distinction is also associated with being likely to look at them if they look at the male, and then to engage in joint gaze with them after looking at them, which indicates more of a social interaction than simply monitoring them when they are unfamiliar. Those aspects of the results could be emphasized more in the topic sentences of paragraphs presenting data to support those features of the gaze data (at present is buried at the ends of results paragraphs and back in the discussion).

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful suggestion. We have restructured the Results and Discussion sections to lead with the primary social takeaways rather than technical descriptions (Tracked changes in Word). Specifically, we now emphasize the distinction between "social monitoring" (characteristic of unfamiliar dyads) and "active social coordination" (characteristic of familiar dyads).

      (1) Topic Sentences: We revised the topic sentences of all Results paragraphs to immediately highlight the findings regarding male interest and the influence of familiarity on reciprocation.

      (2) Conceptual Framework: We added a conceptual distinction in the Discussion, explaining that while unfamiliar marmosets maintain high social attention through "peripheral monitoring" and proximity-dependent joint gaze, familiar pairs exhibit sophisticated, distance-independent coordination and gaze reciprocation.

      (3) Clarification of Male Interest: We explicitly stated that while male interest in females is high regardless of familiarity, it manifests as persistent monitoring in unfamiliar pairs versus a more aware, reciprocal state in familiar pairs.

      Minor comments:

      (1) Methods:

      a) Lines 522-539: The 200 continuous frames used for validation of the model containing two marmosets are sufficient to test how well it generalizes to other animals outside the training set? The RMSE reported, does it vary for animals inside vs outside the training set? To what extent does the RMSE, in image pixels, translate into accuracy in estimating the gaze direction, for example, as assessed by estimating error when marmosets look at images or video on the monitor?

      To address the reviewer’s concern regarding generalization and the translation of pixel RMSE to angular accuracy, we emphasize that the six facial features selected are prominent, high-contrast features across the species. Consequently, we observed that the RMSE remained consistent for marmosets both inside and outside the training set. To quantify how pixel-level tracking error translates into gaze estimation accuracy, we performed a sensitivity analysis. We simulated landmark (i.e., feature) jitter by sampling perturbations from circular distributions based on our empirical data (2.4 pixels for eyes; 2.1 pixels for the central blaze). Our results, illustrated in uthpr response image 1, show that 90% of the resulting head gaze deviations fall within 10°, which is consistent with the angular threshold used for our gaze cone model. This confirms that the reported RMSE provides sufficient precision for reliable gaze estimation.

      Author response image 1.

      Probability distribution of gaze angular deviation under circular perturbation. The histogram (blue) represents the change in reconstructed gaze angle (degrees) following stochastic perturbation of facial features. To simulate real-world variance, noise was sampled from circular distributions with radii of 2.4 pixels (eyes) and 2.1 pixels (central blaze). The red curve represents an exponential fit to the empirical data (y=ae<sup>bx</sup>, a=0.9591, b=0.1813. Approximately 90% of the reconstructed gaze deviations remain below 10°, indicating the model’s localised stability under pixel level coordinate jitter.

      b) Line 542-43: Is there any difference between a rigid model fit to the six facial points, versus using the plane defined by the two eyes and central blaze in terms of direction accuracy (in the ground truth validation)? How does the "semi-rigid" set of six points (mentioned also in lines 201-203) constrain the fit of the three points (two eyes and central blaze) that define the normal plan for the gaze cone?

      We thank the reviewer for the opportunity to clarify our geometric model. The plane used to define the gaze cone's origin was indeed determined by the two eyes and the central blaze. However, a plane defined by only three points was insufficient to determine a unique gaze direction, as the normal vector was ambiguous (it could point forward through the face or backward through the head).

      To resolve this, we utilized the relative positions of the two ear tufts. Because the tufts are anatomically situated behind the eyes and blaze, these additional points provide the necessary spatial context to orient the gaze vector correctly. In our validation, we found that the mouth does not alter the angular accuracy compared to a 3-point fit, supporting that the facial features are correctly identified.

      We use the term 'semi-rigid' to describe the six-point constellation because their relative spatial configurations remain stable across individuals and expressions, imposing a biological constraint on the model. This prevents unphysical warping of the face frame during 3D reconstruction and ensures the gaze cone remains anchored to the animal's true midline.

      (2) Results:

      a) Lines 203-205: What is the distinction between gaze orientation (defined by facial plane, 3D vector) and gaze direction (defined by ear tufts) ... is gaze direction in the 2D x-y plane? Why are two measures needed or different? It does not appear gaze orientation is used further in the manuscript and perhaps could be omitted.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comment regarding the terminology. We have replaced all instances of ‘gaze orientation’ with ‘gaze direction’ to ensure consistency throughout the manuscript.

      To clarify, both terms referred to the same 3D unit vector. The ear tufts were not used to define a separate 2D measure; rather, they served as posterior anatomical anchors to resolve the 3D polarity of the normal vector (ensuring the vector points 'forward' from the face rather than 'backward'). Gaze direction was calculated in 3D space and was not restricted to a 2D x-y plane. We have clarified this in the revised Methods section (Lines 203–205) to avoid further ambiguity.

      b) Line 215-216: why is head-gaze velocity put in normalized units instead of degrees visual angle per second? How was the normalization performed (lines 549-557)? It would be simpler to see velocity as an angular speed (degrees angle per second) rather than a change in norms.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. We agree that the expression is misleading.

      (1) We have replaced "face norm" with "face normal vector" (N) throughout the manuscript to clarify that we are referring to the 3D unit vector perpendicular to the facial plane.

      (2) Lines 224-225 and the corresponding Methods section (Lines 599-609) have been updated to reflect this change in units and terminology.

      We chose to use the change in the face normal vector in normalized units for our primary calculations because it allows for efficient spatiotemporal smoothing and is computationally robust at the very low thresholds required for our stability analysis. However, to address the reviewer's concern regarding interpretability, we have verified that our threshold of 0.05 normalized units corresponds to an angular velocity of 2.87 degrees/frame duration [33ms]. Since we are operating at very small angular changes, the Euclidean distance between unit vectors is a near-linear proxy for the angular displacement in radians.

      c) Lines 215-216: How do raw gaze traces appear over time ... are there gaze saccades and then stable fixations, or does it vary continuously? A plot of the gaze trace might be useful besides just showing velocity with a threshold, to evaluate to what extent stable fixation vs shifts are distinct.

      Author response image 2.

      Time course of gaze, angular velocity and stability, thresholding. The plot illustrates the temporal dynamics of the face normal vector velocity used to define stable gaze states. The blue trace represents the raw gaze velocity calculated in normalised units. The red dashed line demotes the empirical cut off threshold of 0.05 units per frame.

      To clarify the temporal dynamics of marmoset head movements, we have provided a representative time course of head gaze velocity as shown in Author response image 2. The data clearly show a "saccade-and-fixate" pattern: large, distinct spikes in velocity (representing rapid head redirections) are separated by periods of relative stability.

      While minor high-frequency fluctuations in the raw trace (blue) may be attributed to facial feature detection noise, they remain significantly below our stability threshold (red dashed line). By applying this threshold, we successfully isolated biologically relevant "stable fixations" from "head saccades," ensuring that our subsequent social gaze analysis is based on periods of intentional head gaze direction.

      d) Lines 237-286: The writing in this section does not emphasize the main results. There seem to be three takeaway points that could be emphasized better in the topic sentences of each of the paragraphs: i) Marmosets tended to spend most of their time on either end of the elongated box, not in the middle, ii) Males spent more time near the front of the box near the other animal than females, iii) Familiar pairs spent more time closer to each other.

      To address this comment, we have reorganized this section to lead with the three key behavioral findings:

      (1) We now state clearly in the topic sentence that marmosets preferred the ends of the arena over the middle.

      (2) We have highlighted the finding that males spend significantly more time near the inner edge (closer to the partner) than females, irrespective of familiarity.

      (3) We emphasized that familiar pairs maintain closer and more dynamic social distances over time, whereas unfamiliar pairs tend to move further apart as a session progresses.

      e) Line 303: It would be useful to see time traces of head velocity of each member of the pair and categorization over time of the gaze event types. A stable epoch must be brief on the order of 100-200ms. It is unclear how distinct the stable fixation epochs are from the moments when the gaze is shifting. Also, the state transition analysis treats each stable epoch like one event, and then following a gaze movement by either of the pair, the state is defined again, is that correct?

      We defined stable epochs as continuous periods where the face normal vector velocity remained below 0.05 normalized units for both animals. This ensures that a "gaze state" is only categorized when both marmosets have relatively fixed head orientations. As shown in the provided time traces in Author response image 2), the velocity profile is characterized by sharp peaks (head saccades) and clearly defined troughs (fixations). Further, we generated a probability histogram of stable head-gaze epoch durations (Author response image 3). The median duration of these stable epochs is 200ms, which aligns with biological expectations for fixation durations in primates and confirms that these states are distinct from the high-velocity shifts.

      The reviewer’s interpretation is correct. Our Markov chain model treats each stable epoch as a single event. A transition occurs when at least one animal moves (exceeding the velocity threshold), resulting in a new stable epoch where the relative gaze state is re-evaluated. This approach allows us to model the sequence of social interactions as a series of discrete behavioral decisions.

      Author response image 3.

      Temporal characteristics of stable gaze, head gaze, epochs. The histogram illustrates the probability distribution of the duration (ms) of stablegaze behaviour epochs. A minimum duration threshold of 100 ms was applied to exclude transient, non-purposeful head gazes.

      f) Lines 316-326: Some general summarizing statements to lead this paragraph would be useful. It seems that familiar pairs are more likely to participate in joint gaze, especially when close to each other, and perhaps, that males tended to gaze at females more than the reverse. Is there any notion that males were following the gaze of females?

      We thank the reviewer for these suggestions. We have revised the topic sentences of this section to lead with a summary of the social takeaways, specifically highlighting the higher level of male interest and the shift toward reciprocal coordination in familiar pairs.

      The reviewer correctly identified an important dynamic. Our transition analysis (Fig. 4D) confirms that males in both familiar and unfamiliar dyads frequently follow the female's gaze. This is evidenced by a robust transition probability (~17%) from "Male-to-Female Partner Gaze" (blue node) to "Joint Gaze" (green node). We found that this gaze-following behavior was a general feature of the dyads and did not differ significantly by familiarity, which is why it was not previously emphasized. However, we have now added a statement to the Results (Lines 358-365) to explicitly describe this male-led gaze-following behavior.

      g) Lines 328-337: Can these findings in this paragraph be summarized more generally? It seems males view unfamiliar females longer, whereas for familiar females they are more likely to reciprocate viewing if being viewed by them and then to join in joint gaze with them. Would that event, viewing a female and then a transition to joint gaze, not be categorized as a gaze-following event?

      We have now summarized the paragraph to emphasize the transition from vigilant monitoring in unfamiliar pairs to reciprocal awareness in familiar pairs.

      Regarding "longer" viewing: We have clarified the text to specify that males' interest in unfamiliar females is persistent and robust rather than simply "longer" in a single duration. The high recurrence probability signifies that males consistently re-orient their gaze back to the unfamiliar female even if the interaction is briefly interrupted by movement.

      Regarding gaze following and joint gaze: The reviewer asks if the transition from viewing a female to joint gaze constitutes gaze following. We agree that a transition from "male-to-female gaze" to "joint gaze" is indeed a gaze-following event (as noted in our previous response regarding Fig. 4D). However, the specific transition discussed in this paragraph (female-to-male gaze to male-to-female gaze) is different: it describes a "reciprocal" event where the male responded to being looked at by looking back at the female, while the female simultaneously shifted her gaze away. Since the two gaze cones did not intersect on an external object or on each other's faces simultaneously at the end of this transition, it was not categorized as joint gaze or gaze following.

      h) Lines 339-351: It is not clear why gazing at the region surrounding a female's face (as opposed to the face itself) reflects "gaze monitoring tied to increased social attention (Dal Monte et l, 2022). This hypothesis could be expanded to make the prediction clear in this paragraph.

      We thank the reviewer for identifying the need to clarify the hypothesis regarding the region surrounding the face. We have expanded this paragraph to explain why gazing at the peripheral facial region reflects social monitoring.

      In many primate species, direct and sustained eye contact can be often interpreted as a threat or a challenge, particularly between unfamiliar individuals. Peripheral monitoring (looking at the area immediately surrounding the face) can strategically allow an animal to stay highly attentive to the partner's head orientation, gaze direction, and facial expressions—all critical for anticipating future actions—while minimizing the risk of social conflict. By demonstrating that unfamiliar marmosets utilize this peripheral strategy significantly more than familiar ones, we provide evidence that social attention in novel dyads is characterized by a social monitoring strategy that balances the need for information with social caution.

      i) Lines 354-373: This section seems to suggest again that in a familiar male/female pair, the male is more likely to follow the female gaze and establish a joint gaze, and this occurs less with the unfamiliar pair only when closer in distance. Some summary sentences to begin the paragraph could help frame what to expect from the results.

      We have added summarizing topic sentences to this section to clarify the relationship between familiarity and the spatial distribution of joint gaze.

      (3) Discussion:

      Lines 380-463: This section reads more clearly than most of the results, where it is often hard to connect the data plots to their significance for behavior. Overall, I believe the manuscript could be improved by setting up a hypothesis before presenting results in the paragraphs demonstrating the data. Some of the main findings appear in text from lines 413-419 (somewhat hidden even in discussion).

      We sincerely appreciate the reviewer’s positive feedback on the clarity of the latter sections of our Discussion. We have taken the suggestion to heart and have performed a comprehensive restructuring of the Results and Discussion sections.

      (1) We have moved the key takeaways, specifically the distinction between vigilant monitoring in unfamiliar pairs and reciprocal coordination in familiar pairs, from the end of the Discussion to the topic sentences of the relevant Results paragraphs.

      (2) We established a unified framework throughout the manuscript that connects pixel-level tracking stability to the biological "saccade-and-fixate" movement pattern, and ultimately to the social dimensions of sex and familiarity.

      (4) A couple of additional questions to address in the discussion:

      a) Can you speculate why in this behavioral context the marmosets do not engage in reciprocal gaze where both are simultaneously looking at each other (lines 297-301)? How low is the incidence of this event, numerically, in comparison to the other events (1 in 1000 events, etc)?

      We appreciate the reviewer’s interest in the lack of reciprocal gaze (mutual eye contact).

      Numerically, reciprocal gaze events occurred with a frequency of approximately 1 in 500 social gaze events (comprising less than 0.2% of our social dataset). Given this extreme scarcity, we felt that any statistical comparisons across sex or familiarity would be underpowered and potentially misleading, leading to our decision to focus on partner and joint gaze states.

      We speculate that the rarity of reciprocal gaze is primarily due to our task-free experimental setup. Unlike directed cooperation tasks where animals must look at each other to coordinate actions for a reward (e.g., Miss & Burkart, 2018), our study focused on task-free interactions. In a free-moving context without a common goal, marmosets may prioritize monitoring the environment or the partner’s actions (joint or partner gaze) over direct, sustained mutual eye contact, which can sometimes be perceived as a confrontational or high-arousal signal in primate social hierarchies.

      b) Does a transition from a marmoset viewing their partner, to a joint gaze, count as a gaze-following event? It appears the authors are reluctant to use that terminology. What are the potential concerns in that terminology? Is there a concern that both animals orient to the same object that is salient to them without it being due to their gaze?

      A transition from a partner-directed gaze to a joint gaze is indeed a gaze-following event. We distinguish these events from a transition between partner-directed gazes (e.g., male-to-female to female-to-male). In these "reciprocation" cases, once the second animal looked at the first, the first animal shifted their gaze away. Because the two gaze cones did not intersect on a common object at the end of the transition, I classified such events as a social exchange of attention rather than a coordinated gaze-following event.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I do have a few questions/points for clarification:

      (1) While your approach appears to be able to track head orientation when the face is occluded or turned away from the primary cameras, how was the accuracy of this validated? Since you have multiple cameras, it should be possible to make the estimate using the occluded cameras and then validate using the non-occluded ones.

      We appreciate the reviewer's comment regarding the validation of our tracking during partial occlusions.

      We wish to clarify that our system does not utilize "primary" vs "auxiliary" cameras. Rather, any two or more cameras that capture facial features with high confidence are used to triangulate the points into 3D space. Thus, the "primary" cameras are dynamically determined frame-by-frame based on the animal's orientation.

      To validate the accuracy of our 3D reconstruction during occlusions, we utilized a "projection-validation" approach. As demonstrated in Figure 2B (left panel), when the face is turned away from a specific camera, leaving only the back of the head visible, we used the facial features triangulated from the other non-occluded cameras and projected them onto the image plane of the occluded camera. The fact that these projected points aligned precisely with the expected (but hidden) anatomical landmarks confirms the global accuracy of our 3D model.

      We previously benchmarked this approach using a three-camera system where we triangulated coordinates via two cameras and successfully projected them onto the third camera's image plane with high accuracy. This ensures that even when a camera is "blind" to the face, the 3D position estimated by the rest of the array remains robust.

      (2) Marmosets, like other non-human primates, also look at other body postures for their social communication, though admittedly marmosets are far more likely to look others in the face than larger primates. The tail-raised genital displays come to mind. While the paper primarily focuses on shared vs deviant gaze, and I believe tracks not only the angle of viewing towards the target but also the distance from the face (please clarify if I am wrong), it would also be useful to know how often marmosets are looking at each other beyond just the face. This is particularly interesting if the gaze towards the partner varies depending on whether that partner was generally oriented towards the gazer, or not. For the joint gaze, were there conditions in which the two were looking at the same target, but had body postures that were not oriented toward one another (i.e. looking at a distant target beyond one of the animals, like looking over someone else's shoulder)?

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting the importance of body postures and non-facial social signals (e.g., genital displays) in marmoset communication.

      At the inception of this project, we explored tracking multiple body parts. However, due to the marmoset's dense fur and the lack of distinct skeletal markers under naturalistic lighting, human annotators and early automated tools struggled to achieve the precision required for high-resolution 3D kinematics. While recent advances in whole-body tracking now make these questions approachable, we chose to focus on the face normal vector because it provided the most robust and high-confidence signal for social orientation in our current dataset.

      Regarding the "looking over the shoulder" scenario, we utilized a hierarchical classification system to prevent wrong categorization. Intersection with the partner’s face always took priority. If one animal’s gaze cone contained the other’s face, the state was classified as "Partner Gaze", even if the two gaze cones happened to intersect at a distant point in space. This ensures that "Joint Gaze" specifically captures instances where both animals ignore one another’s face regions to focus on a shared external target.

      We agree that the relationship between body posture and head gaze is a fascinating area for future research. In our current setup, while "Joint Gaze" requires the head-gaze cones to intersect, the animals' bodies could indeed be oriented in different directions (e.g., looking at a distant target behind the partner). We have added a note to the Discussion acknowledging that incorporating whole-body gestures would further deepen the understanding of marmoset social ethology.

      (3) In the introduction, (line 70), you raise the question of ecological relevance, using rhesus in laboratory settings. This could use a little more expansion/explanation of the limitations of current/past approaches.

      We thank the reviewer for the suggestion to expand upon the ecological limitations of traditional laboratory paradigms.

      We have substantially revised the Introduction (Lines 70–82) to provide a more detailed critique of past approaches. Specifically, we now highlight how traditional head-fixed or screen-based paradigms decouple eye movements from natural head-body dynamics and lack the reciprocal, multi-agent complexity found in real-world social environments (e.g., Land, 2006; Shepherd, 2010). By contrasting these constraints with the spatially and socially embedded nature of marmoset interactions, we clarify why a more naturalistic, quantitative approach is necessary to understand the true dynamics of social gaze. These additions provide a stronger theoretical foundation for our move toward a free-moving experimental model.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      The authors show experimentally that, in 2D, bacteria swim up a chemotactic gradient much more effectively when they are in the presence of lateral walls. Systematic experiments identify an optimum for chemotaxis for a channel width of ~8µm, a value close to the average radius of the circle trajectories of the unconfined bacteria in 2D. These chiral circles impose that the bacteria swim preferentially along the right-side wall, which indeed yields chemotaxis in the presence of a chemotactic gradient. These observations are backed by numerical simulations and a geometrical analysis.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      This paper addresses, through experiment and simulation, the combined effects of bacterial circular swimming near no-slip surfaces and chemotaxis in simple linear gradients. The authors have constructed a microfluidic device in which a gradient of L-aspartate is established, to which bacteria respond while swimming while confined in channels of different widths. There is a clear effect that the chemotactic drift velocity reaches a maximum in channel widths of about 8 microns, similar in size to the circular orbits that would prevail in the absence of side walls. Numerical studies of simplified models confirm this connection.

      The experimental aspects of this study are well executed. The design of the microfluidic system is clever in that it allows a kind of "multiplexing" in which all the different channel widths are available to a given sample of bacteria.

      The authors have included a useful intuitive explanation of their results via a geometric model of the trajectories. In future work it would be interesting to analyze further the voluminous data on the trajectories of cells by formulating the mathematical problem in terms of a suitable Fokker-Planck equation for the probability distribution of swimming directions. In particular, this might help understand how incipient circular trajectories are interrupted by collisions with the walls and how this relates to enhanced chemotaxis.

      The authors argue that these findings may have relevance to a number of physiological and ecological contexts. As these would be characterized by significant heterogeneity in pore sizes and geometries, further work will be necessary to translate the present results to those situations.

      Thanks to the referees' input and more work, we think our revised manuscript now meets the high standard of eLife

      Recommendations for the authors:

      The importance of the circular swimming chirality for the observed phenomenon could be further emphasized by actually using the word "chiral" or "chirality" in the text. Also indicating what would change is swimming were counterclockwise rather then clockwise would help the reader understand the key significance of chirality.

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful suggestion. We agree that the chirality of the surface interaction is central to the observed phenomenon and should be explicitly highlighted to improve the reader's understanding.

      In response, we have incorporated the terms "chiral" and "chirality" throughout the manuscript (Abstract, Introduction, Results, and Discussion) to emphasize this aspect. Furthermore, we have added a specific explanation in the Results section (the last paragraph of subsection “The cells in the right sidewall region dominated the chemotaxis of E. coli with lane confinements”) detailing the hypothetical scenario of counter-clockwise swimming. We clarify that in such a case, the hydrodynamic interaction would cause cells to veer left, resulting in up-gradient accumulation along the left sidewall rather than the right. We believe these additions significantly improve the clarity of the underlying physical mechanism.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I still have several comments that the authors may want to consider for the last version.

      - The run and tumble behavior of the cells at the surface remains puzzling and would need some more explanation in the text. Tumbles with no significant reorientation angle amount largely to smooth swimmers. How can a model based on run-and-tumbles be used to explain the difference between LSW and RSW?

      We apologize for the lack of clarity regarding the surface run-and-tumble behavior. While it is true that surface tumbles often result in smaller reorientation angles compared to bulk swimming, they are not negligible and play a critical role in the observed asymmetry. As shown in the tumble angle distributions (Fig. 2E and 2F), the probability of a tumble angle exceeding π/2 is approximately 9% for sidewall trajectories and 30% for the middle area. This tumbling behavior leads to differences between the left sidewall (LSW) and right sidewall (RSW) in two key ways:

      First, as detailed in our geometric analysis (Fig. 6), running cells following stable clockwise circular paths are geometrically favored to reach the RSW. Because cells moving up-gradient (towards the RSW) experience suppressed tumbling, they maintain these stable circular trajectories and accumulate effectively. Conversely, cells moving down-gradient (towards the LSW) experience enhanced tumbling. These frequent interruptions distort the circular trajectories required to reach the LSW, resulting in fewer bacteria entering the LSW compared to the RSW.

      Second, once at the wall, the difference in tumbling frequency dictates retention. Majority of LSW cells are swimming down-gradient (LSW-DG) and thus tumble more frequently, increasing their probability of escaping the wall. Majority of RSW cells are swimming up-gradient (RSW-UG), suppressing tumbles and increasing their residence time at the wall.

      The relevant clarifications have been included in the last paragraph of “Results” in the manuscript.

      - Figure 5B would need more explanation. I still don't understand the different behaviors for the right and left side walls at small widths. Is it noise really or a more complex behavior? Since most of these calculations are based precisely on the shape of these curves it would be useful to discuss them in more detail.

      We apologize for the lack of clarity. The behavior observed at small widths in Figure 5B is not noise; rather, it reflects the idealized nature of our simulation model.

      In the simulation, bacteria were modeled as active particles without explicit steric exclusion for the flagella and cell body. Consequently, simulated cells retain the ability to reorient and turn freely even in very narrow lanes (w ≤ 6 μm), allowing the geometric sorting mechanism (which favors the RSW) to function efficiently even at small widths. This is why the simulation shows a distinct difference between LSW and RSW proportions in this regime.

      In the experimental reality, however, the finite size of the bacterial body and flagella creates steric hindrance. In narrow channels, this physical constraint restricts the cells' ability to turn, thereby disrupting the circular swimming mechanism required to sort cells into the RSW. As a result, experimental data shows that the proportions of LSW and RSW cells tend to equalize in narrow channels (e.g., w = 6 μm in Fig. 4B), leading to a lower chemotactic drift velocity than predicted by the simulation.

      We have added a discussion regarding these steric effects and the deviation at narrow widths to the Results section (the penultimate paragraph of subsection "Simulation of E. coli chemotaxis within lane confinement") in the revised manuscript.

      - The importance of the chirality of the circular trajectories, although essential, remains insufficiently mentioned in the text.

      We have incorporated the terms "chiral" and "chirality" throughout the manuscript (Abstract, Introduction, Results, and Discussion) to emphasize this aspect. Furthermore, we have added a specific explanation in the Results section (the last paragraph of subsection “The cells in the right sidewall region dominated the chemotaxis of E. coli with lane confinements”) detailing the hypothetical scenario of counter-clockwise swimming.

      - It would be useful to color-code the trajectories of Figure 1B and alike with time.

      Thank you for the suggestion. Now the trajectories in Fig. 1B have been redrawn. Distinct colors denote individual trajectories, with color intensity darkening to indicate time progression.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript by Lenz and colleagues describes a detailed examination of the epigenetic changes and alterations in subnuclear arrangement associated with the activation of a unique var gene associated with placental malaria in the human malaria parasite Plasmodium falciparum. The var gene family has been heavily studied over the last couple of decades due to its importance in the pathogenesis of malaria, its role in immune avoidance, and the unique transcriptional regulation that it displays. Aspects of how mutually exclusive expression is regulated have been described by several groups and are now known to include histone modifications, subnuclear chromosomal arrangement, and in the case of var2csa, regulation at the level of translation. Here the authors apply several methods to confirm previous observations and to consider a possible role for DNA methylation. They demonstrate that the histone mark H3K9me3 is found at the promoters of silent genes, var2csa moves away from other var gene clusters when activated, and while DNA methylation is detectable at var genes, it does not seem to correlate with transcriptional activation/silencing. Overall, the data and approach appear sound.

      Strengths:

      The authors employ the latest methods for epigenetic analysis of histone marks, transcriptomic analysis, DNA methylation, and chromosome conformation. They also use strong selection pressure to be able to examine the gene var2csa in its active and silent state. This is likely the only paper that has used all these methods in parallel to examine var gene regulation. Thus, the paper provides readers with confidence in the interpretation of independent methods that address a similar subject.

      We thank the reviewer for this positive assessment. We appreciate the recognition that our study combines complementary approaches including histone mark profiling, transcriptomic analysis, DNA methylation mapping, and chromosome conformation capture in parallel to the use of strong population selection that enables a controlled comparison of var2csa in active versus silent states. We agree that the convergence of independent methods strengthens confidence in the interpretation.

      Weaknesses:

      The primary weakness of the paper is that none of the conclusions are novel and the overall conclusions do not shed much new light on the topic of var gene regulation or antigenic variation in malaria parasites. The paper is largely confirmatory. The roles of H3K9me3 and subnuclear localization in var gene regulation are well established by many groups (including for var2csa), albeit in some cases using alternative methods. The only truly unique aspect of the manuscript is the description of 5mC at var2csa when the gene is transcriptionally active or silent. Here the authors demonstrate that the mark has no clear role in transcriptional activation or silencing, however, this will not be surprising to many in the field who have previously cast doubt on a regulatory role for this modification.

      While we agree that some individual features of var gene regulation, including H3K9me3 enrichment, have been described previously, our study integrate for the first time several layer of gene regulation on the clinically important var2csa locus using phenotypically homogeneous placental-binding parasite populations. As expected, var2csa activation coincided with a loss of H3K9me3 at the locus. However, using high-resolution chromatin conformation capture (to our knowledge, this experiment had never been applied to phenotypically homogeneous parasite populations), we quantified the repositioning of var2csa relative to heterochromatic telomeric clusters. We further assessed DNA methylation in this framework and show that 5-methylcytosine is broadly present at var genes and may correlate with transcript level, but is uncoupled from transcriptional activation, repression, and switching. Together, these findings integrate transcriptional state, chromatin marks, and 3D genome organization at var2csa and argue against models in which 5mC acts as a primary regulatory switch for var gene expression.

      Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      Dr Lenz and colleagues report on their in vitro studies comparing gene transcription and epigenetic modifications in Plasmodium falciparum NF54 parasites selected or not selected for adhesion of the infected erythrocytes (IEs) to the placental IE adhesion receptor chondroitin sulfate A (CSA).

      The authors report that selection led to preferential transcription of var2csa, the gene that encodes the VAR2CSA-type PfEMP1 well-established as the PfEMP1 mediating IE adhesion to CSA. They confirm that transcriptional activation of var2csa is associated with distinct depletion of H3K9me3 marks and that transcriptional activation is linked to repositioning of var2csa. Finally, they provide preliminary evidence potentially implicating 5mC in the transcriptional regulation of var2csa.

      Strengths:

      The study confirms previously reported features of gene transcription and epigenetic modifications in Plasmodium falciparum.

      As stated in our response to Reviewer 1, our study combines, for the first time, complementary approaches, including transcriptomic analysis, histone mark profiling, DNA methylation mapping, and chromosome conformation capture, together with strong population selection to enable a controlled comparison of var2csa in active versus silent states.

      Weaknesses:

      No major new finding is reported. The strength of the evidence presented is mostly solid, although certain elements, e.g., the role of 5mC in transcriptional regulation of var2cs, appear preliminary and incomplete.

      While we agree that no major new finding is reported, we were able to use for the first time a high-resolution chromatin conformation capture method to quantify the repositioning of var2csa relative to heterochromatic telomeric clusters. We also further assessed that 5-methylcytosine is present at var genes and may correlate with transcript level, but is uncoupled from transcriptional activation, repression, and switching. Together, these findings integrate for the first time transcriptional state, chromatin marks, and 3D genome organization at var2csa and argue against models in which 5mC acts as a primary regulatory switch for var gene expression.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the Authors):

      (1) In the second paragraph of the introduction, the authors state "....such as the shielding of the parasite antigens expressed on pRBC surfaces by other cells and the evasion of splenic clearance (8)." What does "other cells" mean here?

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. We have clarified the cell type in the text.

      (2) In their interpretation of the Hi-C data, the authors conclude that the var2csa expressing parasites display "tighter heterochromatin control of var gene regions" and "interactions around other silent var genes were increased" and "an overall compaction of telomere ends and var gene-containing intrachromosomal regions". While the data appear to show that this is true when they compare the two parasite populations, I am concerned that the authors might be misinterpreting the data. It is important to note that the NF54CSAh line is heavily selected to be nearly entirely homogeneous for var gene expression while the NF54 line is exceptionally heterogeneous. This is shown in Figure 1G. Thus, any chromosomal arrangement specific for var gene expression in the unselected NF54 population will be similarly heterogeneous and therefore could appear less tight. In other words, interactions around silent var genes and overall compaction of telomere ends might be identical between individual parasites within these populations, but appear tighter or more compact in the var2csa expressing line simply because it is a homogeneous population. Perhaps this is what the authors meant to convey, however as currently written, it seems that they conclude the expression of var2csa results in a unique change in chromosome organization. A better comparison would be two populations homogeneously expressing different var genes, one expressing var2csa and one expressing an alternative var gene. Such lines can be generated through clonal isolation or selection for binding to a different host receptor.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. The reviewer is correct, and we have revised the Discussion section of the manuscript to clarify this issue.

      (3) The title of the last section of the Results is "Distribution of DNA methylation influences gene expression overall but does not mediate transcriptional activation and switching in antigenic variation". This is an overstatement. The authors show that DNA methylation is absent at var gene promoter regions and enriched in coding regions, but there they provide no evidence that it "influences gene expression overall". This is speculation. Lastly, when the authors examined 5mC occupancy across genes, did they normalize for GC content of the DNA sequences? GC content is known to increase dramatically in coding regions (particularly in var genes) and thus could explain the distribution of this mark. If the authors corrected for this, they should directly state this in the results section. If they did not, they should explain why they don't think this property of the P. falciparum genome explains the distribution of 5mC.

      There is often a misconception in the field that DNA methylation is primarily confined to CpG islands in promoter regions and functions mainly as a repressor of transcription. However, in contrast to promoter methylation, methylation within gene bodies is generally associated with higher levels of gene expression, suggesting a role in facilitating transcription elongation. Gene-body methylation can also repress internal promoters, thereby preventing spurious transcription initiation within the gene. In addition, it has been shown to influence alternative splicing by affecting RNA polymerase II elongation kinetics.

      We propose that, in Plasmodium, DNA methylation may be associated with priming genes for transcriptional activity rather than repressing transcription. Specifically, higher methylation levels may facilitate recruitment of the RNA polymerase II transcriptional machinery to enable transcription. In Figure 4B, we observe higher levels of DNA methylation in the first exon of highly expressed genes in both the NF54 and NF54CSAh lines. Interestingly, we also detect high levels of methylation across most introns of the var genes, introns that must be transcribed, cannot be degraded, and are essential for var gene regulation, suggesting a possible sequence-recognition function. We have edited the manuscript to improve clarity.

      (4) In the legend to Figure 3D, the authors state that the centromeres are shown in blue, however in the figure they appear to be grey while var2csa is blue.

      We have revised the figure legend accordingly.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      I recommend using the term "transcription" rather than "expression" when discussing events at the gene level.

      We have revised the manuscript accordingly.

      I also recommend using the term "adhesion" to describe the physical interaction between infected erythrocytes and adhesion receptors rather than adherence", which should be reserved to describe non-physical affinity (e.g., beliefs, faith).

      We have revised the manuscript accordingly.

      Important new evidence regarding transcriptional regulation of var genes in general and var2csa in particular should be discussed and cited.

      We have revised the manuscript accordingly.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The "number sense" refers to an imprecise and noisy representation of number. Many researchers propose that the number sense confers a fixed (exogenous) subjective representation of number that adheres to scalar variability, whereby the variance of the representation of number is linear in the number.

      This manuscript investigates whether the representation of number is fixed, as usually assumed in the literature, or whether it is endogenous. The two dimensions on which the authors investigate this endogeneity are the subject's prior beliefs about stimuli values and the task objective. Using two experimental tasks, the authors collect data that are shown to violate scalar variability and are instead consistent with a model of optimal encoding and decoding, where the encoding phase depends endogenously on prior and task objectives. I believe the paper asks a critically important question. The literature in cognitive science, psychology, and increasingly in economics, has provided growing empirical evidence of decision-making consistent with efficient coding. However, the precise model mechanics can differ substantially across studies. This point was made forcefully in a paper by Ma and Woodford (2020, Behavioral & Brain Sciences), who argue that different researchers make different assumptions about the objective function and resource constraints across efficient coding models, leading to a proliferation of different models with ad-hoc assumptions. Thus, the possibility that optimal coding depends endogenously on the prior and the objective of the task, opens the door to a more parsimonious framework in which assumptions of the model can be constrained by environmental features. Along these lines, one of the authors' conclusions is that the degree of variability in subjective responses increases sublinearly in the width of the prior. And importantly, the degree of this sublinearity differs across the two tasks, in a manner that is consistent with a unified efficient coding model.

      Comments on revisions:

      The authors have done an excellent job addressing my main concerns from the previous round. The new analyses that address the alternative model of "no cognitive noise and only motor noise" are compelling and provide quantitative evidence that bolsters the paper's overall contribution. The authors also went above and beyond by reanalyzing the Frydman and Jin (2022) dataset to provide new and very interesting analyses that provide an additional out of sample test of the model proposed in the current paper.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This paper provides an ingenious experimental test of an efficient coding objective based on optimization as a task success. The key idea is that different tasks (estimation vs discrimination) will, under the proposed model, lead to a different scaling between the encoding precision and the width of the prior distribution. Empirical evidence in two tasks involving number perception supports this idea.

      Strengths:

      - The paper provides an elegant test of a prediction made by a certain class of efficient coding models previously investigated theoretically by the authors. The results in experiments and modeling suggest that competing efficient coding models, optimizing mutual information alone, may be incomplete by missing the role of the task.

      - The paper carefully considers how the novel predictions of the model interact with the Weber/Fechner law.

      Weaknesses:

      The claims would be even more strongly validated if data were present at more than two widths in the discrimination experiment (also noted in Discussion).

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This work investigates whether human imprecision in numeric perception is a fixed structural constraint or an endogenous property that adapts to environmental statistics and task objectives. By measuring behavioral variability across different uniform prior distributions in both estimation and discrimination tasks, the authors show that perceptual imprecision increases sublinearly with prior width. They demonstrate that the specific exponents of this scaling (1/2 for estimation and 3/4 for discrimination) can be derived from an efficient-coding model, wherein decision-makers optimally balance task-specific expected rewards against the metabolic costs of neural coding. The revised manuscript expands this framework to accommodate logarithmic representations and validates the core model against an independent dataset of risky choices.

      Strengths:

      The authors have effectively addressed my previous concerns with rigorous additions:

      (1) The mathematical formulation has been revised into a discrete signal accumulation framework, making the objective function and resource trade-offs much more transparent and mathematically tractable.

      (2) The incorporation of the logarithmic representation resolves prior ambiguities regarding structural constraints.

      (3) The new split-half analysis effectively addresses the temporal dynamics of adaptation. The stability of the sublinear scaling across the experiment provides solid evidence that human subjects utilize rapid, top-down modulation to adjust their encoding strategy when explicitly informed about the environment.

      (4) Validating the derived scaling exponents on an independent risky-choice dataset robustly supports the generalizability of the theoretical framework beyond a single cognitive domain.

      Weaknesses:

      The methodological and theoretical issues raised in the first round have been thoroughly resolved, and the evidence supporting the claims regarding response variance is convincing.

      There is one remaining theoretical point that warrants discussion to provide a complete picture of the proposed generative model. The manuscript exquisitely models and predicts response variance (imprecision), but it remains largely silent on the closed-form predictions for the mean estimation (i.e., bias). Under the assumption of optimal Bayesian decoding combined with specific encoding schemes (e.g., linear vs. logarithmic), the model implicitly generates mathematical predictions for the subjects' mean estimates. Specifically, varying the scaling exponent (α) and the prior width (w) should systematically alter the predicted bias in different conditions.

      While fitting or explicitly explaining this mean bias is not strictly necessary for the core claims regarding variance scaling, acknowledging what the optimal decoder analytically predicts for the mean estimation-and how it aligns or contrasts with typical empirical observations-would strengthen the theoretical transparency of the paper.

      We thank the reviewers for their attention to our revised manuscript. We are very glad that the reviewers seem satisfied with how we have addressed their concerns. The paper is now stronger than in its first iteration.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I have no further requests for the authors, I congratulate the authors on a great paper.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      No further suggestions.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      In the Figure 2b caption, the phrase "from which the numbers of dots are sampled" appears to be a typo carried over from the estimation task. It should likely read "from which the numbers are sampled", as the discrimination task uses Arabic numerals rather than dot arrays.

      We thank the reviewers for their attention to our revised manuscript. We are very glad that the reviewers seem satisfied with how we have addressed their concerns. The paper is now stronger than in its first iteration.

      Reviewer #3 points out that we have focused on the subjects’ response variability, and we did not report the mean estimates. We agree that the reader could reasonably expect to see this. We now include this in Figure 6.

      The subjects exhibit the typical patterns observed in numerosity-estimation task (most notably, the ‘central tendency of judgment’). The dotted line shows the predictions of the best-fitting model (with 𝛼 = 1/2) with the logarithmic encoding, which reproduces the subjects’ main behavioral patterns.

      We have slightly revised the manuscript. The revised version includes this Figure, in Methods (p. 28). We have modified the text of the Methods accordingly (bottom of p. 27), and we now refer to this analysis in the main text (line 6 of p. 5). We have also corrected the typo noted by Reviewer #3 (caption of Fig. 2b).

    1. Author response:

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The integration of single-cell datasets across species is a powerful approach to understanding how cell types and patterns of gene expression have evolved. Current methods to perform such integrations require multiple steps: clustering, the integration itself, and downstream differential expression analysis. In this study, the authors describe a new approach, called ANTIPODE, that combines these steps by integrating deep learning with interpretable decoding and linear modeling. This method builds on previous deep learning approaches to dataset integration, namely SCVI and scANVI, that employ a variational autoencoder to model single-cell RNA-sequencing datasets. However, gene expression estimates from these previous methods are challenging to interpret due to non-linear decoding from the modeled latent space. ANTIPODE seeks to address this issue by using a single-layer decoder coupled to a linear model to estimate patterns of differential expression, e.g. differential expression by coexpression module, across cell types, etc.

      The authors apply their framework to a large single-cell RNA-seq dataset (~1.8M cells) containing cells from the central nervous systems of humans, macaques, and mice spanning in utero developmental time points. They identify a consensus set of cell clusters across each species. They find that ANTIPODE performs at least as well as SCVI in terms of species integration and batch correction. The authors demonstrate several use cases of this integrated approach by analyzing differential expression that correlates with gene structure, the evolution of expression differences in neuropeptide systems, and the anatomical and phylogenetic variation in neurodevelopmental timing.

      Strengths:

      ANTIPODE is a welcome addition to techniques that integrate large single-cell RNA-seq datasets across multiple species. The approach's simultaneous inference of cell clusters, integration manifolds, and differential expression should streamline analysis pipelines whose elements are often disjointed and sometimes work at cross purposes.

      Weaknesses:

      The authors note several limitations to their method that will be targets for future development. First, clustering "resolution" is inferred from the data and cannot be tuned as with other approaches. Second, because of the linear decoding, ANTIPODE does not accommodate combining datasets obtained from different modalities (e.g. single-cell with single-nucleus RNA-seq). Third, as currently implemented, ANTIPODE does not explicitly model phylogenetic relationships. However, the authors describe an extension that could enable this, enhancing the power of multiple species integrations. A weakness with the current manuscript is the organization and readability of the figures. The supplemental figures in particular need to be restructured and reformatted to increase their interpretability.

      We thank this reviewer for their positive feedback regarding the utility of the model and how it may simplify challenging evolutionary analysis.

      We acknowledge that the figures are a bit difficult to read, and we will improve annotation and tidiness to make them more accessible to the reader.

      We have implemented changes for an ANTIPODE version 0.2 version which includes regression of gene expression differences on a phylogeny. We have updated the github with this “antipode.phylo” module. For this study, the 3 species case is equivalent for flat or phylogenetic regression, where for example mouse up is equivalent to primate down, so we will do not plan to redo the analyses in the text using this new version.

      We have already provided examples for running ANTIPODE on our own and public datasets (https://github.com/mtvector/scANTIPODE/tree/main/real_examples), as well as in-line documentation of classes and functions, however it is true that these may be insufficient information for new users. We will provide true explanatory tutorials for both to address the reviewer’s concerns. ANTIPODE version 0.1 is currently installable from either github or PyPI.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This work presents ANTIPODE, a bilinear generative model developed for the simultaneous integration and identification of cell types across species and developmental stages using single-cell RNA-seq data. ANTIPODE is inspired by scANVI, a well-established semi-supervised framework for single-cell transcriptomics. After describing its implementation, the authors use ANTIPODE to integrate data from 15 species comprising 1,854,767 cells. Then, the authors benchmark ANTIPODE against commonly used methods (scVI, Harmony, and Scanorama) using two snRNAseq datasets and report comparable or superior performance. They then return to the initial integrated dataset and analyse patterns of gene expression evolution. Finally, they leverage the model to study the "later-is-larger" concept, evaluating the relationship between gene expression, developmental timing and structure size and finding gene expression signatures of this concept.

      Strengths:

      A major strength of the paper is that ANTIPODE employs a bilinear decoding architecture, which produces more interpretable model parameters while performing at least as well as existing, more opaque nonlinear integration approaches.

      The authors demonstrate the utility of ANTIPODE by integrating single-cell mRNA sequencing data from mouse, macaque, and human brains and confirming general principles regarding developmental timing and cell-type-specific gene expression divergence.

      They also propose a conceptually interesting framework for studying gene expression evolution: instead of focusing solely on differentially expressed genes between homologous cell types, they jointly model gene expression across developmental states and species-specific divergence, allowing them to define and analyse four categories of differential expression.

      Finally, the authors' conclusions are well supported by the analyses presented, although these conclusions remain relatively conservative and reinforce already established principles.

      Weaknesses:

      A central weakness of the paper is its limited accessibility to a broad audience. Despite attempting to keep computational details in the supplement, the main text still uses substantial jargon, undermining the goal of providing an intuitive explanation of the model. The figures are also insufficiently annotated (e.g., colour schemes in Figure 2 heatmap, bubble plot details in Figure 3, entropy definition in Figure 3), and the figure legends are overly brief and lack essential information. I strongly recommend that the authors revise both text and figures to improve clarity and readability.

      Similarly, the materials and methods lack a lot of information about the implementation of the model, the statistical tests used, the calculations of entropy, etc.

      The study sits between tool development and biological discovery but does not fully commit to either. As a result, it cannot be evaluated as a full benchmarking study, yet it also does not provide new biological insights that are validated experimentally.

      Finally, the GitHub repository for ANTIPODE is not yet functional and lacks documentation or tutorials, making it impossible to assess usability or reproducibility.

    1. Author response:

      We would like to thank the Editor and the three Reviewers for their detailed assessment of our manuscript and their constructive feedback. We found the suggestions valuable for refining our work. Before presenting the fully updated manuscript, we would like to clarify a few points in this initial response. This manuscript identifies a heat-induced, alternativelyspliced short isoform of PIF4 (PIF4-S) that contributes to the physiological responses observed in heat-stressed etiolated seedlings. First, we agree with all Reviewers that including PIF4 protein data will strengthen our findings an more definitely demonstrate the generation of a protein-coding alternative isoform under heat stress. Therefore, this will be one of our main priorities in the revision. Evidence for the functionality of this alternative isoform is clearly demonstrated by the distinct phenotypes exhibited by transgenic lines expressing either the long or the short versions of PIF4. Nevertheless, we agree that a more comprehensive characterization of these lines, as well as of the pif4 mutant lines, will further strengthen the demonstration of the functional relevance of this alternative splicing event. In addition, we will extend the phenotypic analysis of the PIF4-S lines to heat stress conditions. Importantly, the phenotypes observed in these lines suggest that additional molecular mechanisms may act in parallel with this alternative splicing event to regulate development in heat-stressed etiolated seedlings. As proposed by Reviewer #1, other PIFs may be involved in this response, and we will address this possibility. We will also provide new experimental data to show that alternative splicing in this gene is specific to heat stress and does not occur in other PIFs. Finally, we would like to clarify that the main scope of this manuscript is to demonstrate the functional relevance of the alternative isoform generated by splicing in PIF4 under heat stress. A detailed investigation of its molecular mode of action is beyond the scope of the present study. We sincerely appreciate the thoughtful feedback provided by all Reviewers. We will carefully consider their suggestions and use them to guide the inclusion of additional experiments and analyses in our revised manuscript to reinforce and clarify our conclusions.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      eLife Assessment

      The manuscript by Shukla et al. provides important mechanistic insights into kinesin-1 autoinhibition and cargo-mediated activation. Using a convincing combination of protein engineering, computational modeling, biophysical assays, HDX-MS, and electron microscopy, the authors reveal how cargo binding induces an allosteric transition that propagates to the motor domains and enhances MAP7 binding. Despite limitations arising from conformational heterogeneity and structural resolution, the study presents a unified mechanism for kinesin-1 activation that will be of broad interest to the motor protein, structural biology, and cell biology communities.

      We are grateful for the time and effort from the reviewers and editors in providing fair and constructive comments that have helped to improve the manuscript. Our point-by-point response is provided below.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors aim to interrogate the sets of intramolecular interactions that cause kinesin-1 hetero-tetramer autoinhibition and the mechanism by which cargo interactions via the light chain tetratricopeptide repeat domains can initiate motor activation. The molecular mechanisms of kinesin regulation remain an important question with respect to intracellular transport. It has implications for the accuracy and efficiency of motor transport by different motor families, for example, the direction of cargos towards one or other microtubules.

      Strengths:

      The authors focus on the response of inactivated kinesin-1 to peptides found in cargos and the cascade of conformational changes that occur. They also test the effects of the known activator of kinesin-1 - MAP7 - in the context of their model. The study benefits from multiple complementary methods - structural prediction using AlphaFold3, 2D and 3D analysis of (mainly negative stain) TEM images of several engineered kinesin constructs, biophysical characterisation of the complexes, peptide design, hydrogen/deuterium-exchange mass spectrometry, and simple cell-based imaging. Each set of experiments is thoughtfully designed, and the intrinsic limitations of each method are offset by other approaches such that the assembled data convincingly support the authors' conclusions. This study benefits from prior work by the authors on this system and the tools and constructs they previously accrued, as well as from other recent contributions to the field.

      Weaknesses:

      It is not always straightforward to follow the design logic of a particular set of experiments, with the result that the internal consistency of the data appears unconvincing in places.

      For example, i) the Figure 1 AlphaFold3 models do not include motor domains whereas the nearly all of the rest of the data involve constructs with the motor domains;

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comment regarding the absence of the motor domains in the AlphaFold3 models shown in Figure 1. These domains were intentionally excluded to improve visual clarity and to better highlight the interaction between the TPR domains and CC1 in the inhibited kinesin-1 conformation. We felt that this simplified presentation in the main figure helps readers focus on the key mechanistic advance introduced in this work at the outset of the paper. For completeness, we have provided full-length kinesin-1 AlphaFold3 models that include the motor domains in the Supplementary Information (Fig. S1), and they are described in detail in the main text. In addition, we have added a note to the Figure 1 legend to explicitly direct readers to these full-length models.

      ii) the kinesin constructs are chemically cross-linked prior to TEM sample preparation - this is clear in the Methods but should be included in the Results text, together with some discussion of how this might influence consistency with other methods where crosslinking was not used.

      Thank you. Chemical crosslinking is typically important for obtaining high-quality negative-stain TEM grids of kinesin-1 complexes and has been employed in all prior EM studies by our group and others. While this was described in the Methods, we agree that it should also be stated explicitly in the Results. Accordingly, we have added a sentence to the Results section noting that the proteins were stabilized using the amine-to-amine crosslinker BS3 (“Proteins were also stabilised using the amine-to-amine crosslinker BS3 that was important for achieving reproducibly high-quality samples for imaging.”).

      Please see point below for acknowledgement of risks of using crosslinker.

      Can those cross-links themselves be used to probe the intramolecular interactions in the molecular populations by mass spec?

      We had considered this, however, cross-linking mass spectrometry (XL-MS) has been applied extensively to essentially identical kinesin-1 complexes by Tan et al. (eLife 2023). That work provided important insights into the overall architecture of the complex, including the new head–CC1 interactions. However, as fully acknowledged by the authors, significant ambiguity remained with respect to the positioning of the TPR domains, with many cross-links that could not be straightforwardly rationalized in a single model. These unresolved aspects provided part of the motivation for the present study, as highlighted in the Introduction.

      We believe that this ambiguity likely reflects an underlying conformational equilibrium of the kinesin-1 complex (e.g. opening/closing transitions) and/or dynamic docking and undocking of the TPR domains, and lysine-rich features of the TPR domains (most notably the loops that connect the TPR alpha helices) which may make them prone to lock in non-native states, which limits the interpretability of static cross-linking data in this system. In this context therefore, we feel that XL-MS has already been thoroughly explored for kinesin-1 and that its practical limitations in resolving these TPR interactions have been reached.

      This consideration was a primary motivation for pursuing cross-linker-free, solution-based approaches, particularly HDX-MS, which we argue provide the most relevant new insights into the assembly and conformational dynamics of the complex. To make this rationale clearer, we have added an explicit note in the HDX-MS section emphasizing that this is a cross-linker-free method. The added text reads:

      “To determine how the local structural changes from adaptor binding and shoulder dislocation affected the dynamics of kinesin-1 complexes in solution, as directly and least invasively as possible, and without the risk of cross-linker artefacts.”

      In general, the information content of some of the figure panels can also be improved with more annotations (e.g. angular relationship between views in Figure 1B, approximate interpretations of the various blobs in Fig 3F, and more thought given to what the reader should extract from the representative micrographs in several figures - inclusion of the raw data is welcome but extraction and magnification of exemplar particles (as is done more effectively in Fig S5) could convey more useful information elsewhere.

      We appreciate these suggestions. We have modified the figures throughout the manuscript in line with the reviewer’s points. Raw data is now provided at higher magnification throughout so the reader can better distinguish individual particles, angular relationships have been added and further annotations provided on 2D class averages. We do not want the reader to draw too many conclusions from images of single closed particles (with the exception of open vs closed in Fig S7) as these require averaging and 2D classification to obtain meaningful insights, and so we have not added zoom panels in these cases. Figure 3F has been annotated as requested.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this paper, Shukla, Cross, Kish, and colleagues investigate how binding of a cargo-adaptor mimic (KinTag) to the TPR domains of the kinesin-1 light chain, or disruption of the TPR docking site (TDS) on the kinesin-1 heavy chain, triggers release of the TPR domains from the holoenzyme. This dislocation provides a plausible mechanism for transition out of the autoinhibited lambda-particle toward the open and active conformation of kinesin-1. Using a combination of negative-stain electron microscopy, AlphaFold modeling, biochemical assays, hydrogen-deuterium exchange mass spectrometry (HDX-MS), and other methods, the authors show how TPR undocking propagates conformational changes through the coiled-coil stalk to the motor domains, increasing their mobility and enhancing interactions with the microtubule-bound cofactor MAP7. Together, they propose a model in which the TDS on CC1 of the heavy chain forms a "shoulder" in the compact, autoinhibited state. Cargo-adaptor binding, mimicked here by KinTag, dislodges this shoulder, liberating the motor domains and promoting MAP7 association, driving kinesin-1 activation.

      Strengths:

      Throughout the study, the authors use a clever construct design - e.g., delta-Elbow, ElbowLock, CC-Di, and the high-affinity KinTag - to test specific mechanisms by directly perturbing structural contacts or affecting interactions. The proposed mechanism of releasing autoinhibition via adaptor-induced TPR undocking is also interrogated with a number of complementary techniques that converge on a convincing model for activation that can be further tested in future studies. The paper is well-written and easy to follow, though some more attention to figure labels and legends would improve the manuscript (detailed in recommendations for the authors).

      Weaknesses:

      These reflect limits of what the current data can establish rather than flaws in execution. It remains to be tested if the open state of kinesin-1 initiated by TPR undocking is indeed an active state of kinesin-1 capable of processive movement and/or cargo transport. It also remains to be determined what the mechanism of motor domain undocking from the autoinhibited conformation is, and perhaps this could have been explored more here. The authors have shown by HDX-MS that the motor domains become more mobile on KinTag binding, but perhaps molecular dynamics would also be useful for modelling how that might occur.

      We are grateful for the reviewer’s comments. We agree that the weaknesses the reviewer has outlined define the limitations of the study and establish important priorities for future work, that includes molecular dynamics simulations. An important prerequisite for the latter is a starting model that one has confidence in. We think that our study and earlier work now provide a good experimentally supported foundation for using AF3 generated assemblies for this purpose, by ourselves and others.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript by Shukla and colleagues presents a comprehensive study that addresses a central question in kinesin-1 regulation - how cargo binding to the kinesin light chain (KLC) tetratricopeptide repeat (TPR) domains triggers activation of full-length kinesin-1 (KHC). The authors combine AlphaFold3 modeling, biophysical analysis (fluorescence polarization, hydrogen-deuterium exchange), and electron microscopy to derive a mechanistic model in which the KLC-TPR domains dock onto coiled-coil 1 (CC1) of the KHC to form the "TPR shoulder," stabilizing the autoinhibited (λ-particle) conformation. Binding of a W/Y-acidic cargo motif (KinTag) or deletion of the CC1 docking site (TDS) dislocates this shoulder, liberating the motor domains and enhancing accessibility to cofactors such as MAP7. The results link cargo recognition to allosteric structural transitions and present a unified model of kinesin-1 activation.

      Strengths:

      (1) The study addresses a fundamental and long-standing question in kinesin-1 regulation using a multidisciplinary approach that combines structural modeling, quantitative biophysics, and electron microscopy.

      (2) The mechanistic model linking cargo-induced dislocation of the TPR shoulder to activation of the motor complex is well supported by both structural and biochemical evidence.

      (3) The authors employ elegant protein-engineering strategies (e.g., ElbowLock and ΔTDS constructs) that enable direct testing of model predictions, providing clear mechanistic insight rather than purely correlative data.

      (4) The data are internally consistent and align well with previous studies on kinesin-1 regulation and MAP7-mediated activation, strengthening the overall conclusion.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) While the EM and HDX-MS analyses are informative, the conformational heterogeneity of the complex limits structural resolution, making some aspects of the model (e.g., stoichiometry or symmetry of TPR docking) indirect rather than directly visualized.

      We agree with the reviewers point. Conformational heterogeneity is a significant challenge, and the model has been developed from multiple complementary approaches. A higher resolution cryoEM study remains a priority, but is challenging because of the size, shape and flexibility of the particle, but we hope that some the approaches used here (e.g. nanobody TPR stabilisation, ElbowLock) will provide a path to achieve this.

      (2) The dynamics of KLC-TPR docking and undocking remain incompletely defined; it is unclear whether both TPR domains engage CC1 simultaneously or in an alternating fashion.

      We agree that this is a limitation. We strongly suspect that the TPR domains dynamic and are working to overcome experimental challenges to resolve this important outstanding question. We have expanded the discussion section to better highlight this important priority.

      (3) The interplay between cargo adaptors and MAP7 is discussed but not experimentally explored, leaving open questions about the sequence and exclusivity of their interactions with CC1.

      We agree that this is a limitation but will be an important priority for future studies.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      There are a number of places where the text could be more precise or clear, or the figures could be designed to be more informative:

      (1) The word "unitarily" is used in several places, and I don't know what it means in this context.

      We have changed the phrasing throughout the manuscript to this term. We were attempting to contrast with presumed cooperative multivalent interactions in the context of the kinesin-1 tetramer but agree that this choice of word doesn’t quite achieve that.

      (2) On page 5 the phrase "We focused on the ElbowLock background" is introduced and needs to be explained more clearly.

      Thank you. We have amended the text to read “This KIF5C construct contains a short 5 amino acid deletion that restricts flexibility around the elbow and helps maintain particles in their lambda conformation, providing homogenous samples, and facilitating subsequent analysis (34).”

      (3) On page 6, the phrase "To improve the resolution of our images, we turned to single-particle cryoEM analysis" is imprecise - what do the authors mean by the resolution of the images? Cryo-EM data does not always guarantee a higher resolution structure, but it offers the possibility of visualising finer structural features. This is probably what is meant here, but needs to be stated more precisely.

      We have amended the text to ‘visualise finer structural details’ as suggested.

      (4) Page 7 - "suggesting that TPR domains had loosely dissociated from the core" - I don't think the evidence points to dissociation of KLCs from the complex, but the phrase "loosely dissociated" implies this - would benefit from rephrasing.

      We have changed this to ‘undocked’ for consistency with other descriptions in the manuscript.

      (5) Was the effect of the CC-Di insertion (ΔTDS) detectable by AlphaFold prediction? It would be interesting to include this, partly for completeness and partly because a slightly imperfect and maybe a more dynamic coiled-coil in this region of the molecule may be important in supporting the conformational changes required for activation.

      Thank you for this suggestion. Modelling of deltaTDS complex indeed shows displacement of the TPR domains. In the standard 5 output models, the TPR domains now occupy a variety of different positions, all with essentially zero confidence (high position error). Consistent with biochemical data, the CCDi insertion is modelled with with no overall disruption to the architecture or length of CC1 as expected. We think that this is a valuable addition to the study and have included it as a new supplementary figure (Fig S5), with main text reading.

      …. “Supporting this, models of ΔTDS complexes using AF3 showed the expected seamless insertion of CCDi into CC1, with displacement of the TPR domains to a variety of different positions, in 5 models, all with high position error with respect to KHC (Fig S5).”

      (6) Figure S1 has two sections designated (C) in the legend.

      Corrected

      (7) Figure S3 - given the resolution and level of interpretation of the 3D reconstructions, it is not relevant to include an FSC curve, but other standard information, such as angular distribution and any evidence of variability from 3D classifications (and how many particles per 3D class) should be included for all structures.

      Thank you, a complete workflow for all complexes has now been provided in Figure S8 with the information requested. In each case there were typically two ‘good’ classes. For ElbowLock, this included one without a prominent shoulder, consistent with 2D classification and quantification. We assume this may reflect a docking/undocking equilibrium. For the deltaTDS and KinTag particles, neither class showed the shoulder feature. The main text has been modified to reflect this and reads “For ElbowLock complexes, this resulted in classes with and without a prominent shoulder, in agreement with 2D classification. For ElbowLock-ΔTDS and ElbowLock-KinTag complexes, no prominent shoulder containing classes were observed.”

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Overall, the figures would benefit from more labels for clarity, some examples and suggestions below:

      (1) Figure 1A - Connect motors to the rest of the structure e.g., wiggly lines.

      Corrected.

      (2) Figure 1B - Add arrows and angles to indicate different views of the model.

      Corrected.

      (3) Figure 1B - Label TPR1-6 (e.g., inset zoom in).

      Corrected.

      (4) Figure 2D and 3D - Label the lack of a shoulder in all averages (perhaps with an arrow instead of a circle to not obscure density), include an example average which shows prominent shoulder density.

      Corrected. Full sets of classes showing shoulder like features for deltaTDS and KinTag complexes are now shown in Figure S4.

      (5) Figure 3D: Label motor domains and elbow as in other figures.

      Corrected.

      (6) Methods: Include more information on how EM classes were compared to AF projections (e.g., Figure 1D). Was this done visually or computationally? Likewise, more information is needed on how classes were judged to have prominent/weak shoulder density (Figure 2D). In the figure legend, there is a statement that "Full sets of classes are provided in Fig. S4" but this is absent in the supplement.

      Thank you. This information has been added to the methods.

      “For comparison to the AF3 model, simulated density was generated using the molmap command in ChimeraX (73) filtering to 15 Å, and projections were generated/selected automatically using the Reference Based Auto Selected 2D function in CryoSPARC”.

      Full sets of classes are now provided in Figure S4.

      (7) Figure 1-3 - Raw micrographs are a very useful inclusion but would benefit from being a more zoomed-in view (e.g., Figure S5 scale). Particularly useful for 3C, where the mixture of open and closed would be good to see.

      Higher zoom micrographs have been provided throughout.

      (8) Figure 5D: Panels too small to see the result, suggest making full width and moving E below.

      Thank you. We have expanded the panel and moved the model to a new Figure 6.

      (9) Figure S1: PAE plot convincing, but pLDDT colour models needed.

      A representative model coloured for pLDDT has been added to Figure S1. Most of the structure sits within the light blue confident range (90 > pLDDT > 70) with the exception of the disordered regions and neck coil.

      (10) Figure 5B: Reason for the variable inputs?

      The reviewer raises an interesting point. The slightly reduced expression of deltaElbow and slightly increased expression of ElbowLock is a consistent feature of these experiments. We note that this effect is in the ‘opposite direction’ to the impact on binding to MAP7 and so does not affect our conclusions from the experiment. However, we wonder whether opening and closing of the complex may impact on turnover of kinesin proteins, which could have implications for their normal homeostasis and possible degradation after transport in polarised cells. We are considering how to explore this going forwards. We have added a note to the results section to highlight this interesting observation to the reader.

      “We also noted slightly elevated expression of ElbowLock complexes and slightly lower expression of DeltaElbow complexes, suggesting that opening/closing of the complex could impact on kinesin-1 turnover”

      (11) Figure legend 5B: Insufficient detail, the end result is stated, but the three separate gels are not described.

      Legend has been expanded.

      (12) Figure 3F: Currently somewhat problematic. It is unclear if the models are in the same view, and so comparison is difficult. Figure 1C (bottom right) shows class averages with a clear, separate CC density, so the relatively featureless model in this region is puzzling. A statement on how the three model views are related to each other, if aligned with each other, would be useful.

      We appreciate the reviewers point. Models were aligned in Chimera, using the fit in map command. Because of the limited features of the models presumably due to flexibility, achieving a good alignment for all three models was challenging, but we think that showing the 180-degree rotations is probably about the best we can achieve here.

      (13) The following statement is too strong: "Nonetheless, we obtained reference-free 2D class averages that appeared to show full-length 'side' views of the complex with clear definition of the elbow, hinge 2, and KHC-KLC (coiled-coil) interface features which enabled us to identify CC1 confidently (Fig. 1D)". Given that the negative-stain EM data were collected primarily to validate the AlphaFold model, the assignment of CC1 should be described as consistent with rather than confidently identified from the class averages. The resolution of the EM data does not independently support such an assignment, and the wording needs to be softened.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s point, we have softened the wording as suggested. The paragraph now reads.

      “To visualise finer structural details, we turned to single-particle cryoEM analysis of frozen-hydrated samples. We were unable to obtain optimal samples suitable for determining the complete structure. Nonetheless, we obtained reference-free 2D class averages that appeared to show full-length ‘side’ views of the complex with clear definition of the elbow, hinge 2, and KHC-KLC (coiled-coil) interface features (Fig. 1D). The motor domains were poorly resolved in these classes, suggesting that the head assembly is somewhat flexible relative to the coiled coil/TPR body. A comparison to low-pass filtered back-projections from the AF3 model (without motor domains) revealed density at a position concurrent with the docked TPR domains (Fig. 1D).”

      (14) There is a typo in the figure legend of Figure 3 - (E) and (F) should be (F) and (G).

      Corrected

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I recommend the following additions:

      (1) Figure 1 labeling - In panel A, please label the "linker domain" and the "KLC subunits" explicitly to help orient the reader. In panel B, please mark the "TPR shoulder" corresponding to the docked TPR domains on CC1; this will help the reader connect parts B and C.

      Thank you, we have modified Figure 1A with this additional information.

      (2) The TPR docking site (TDS) is a central structural element, and its sequence boundaries are provided in the Methods. It would help to visualize this directly in Figure 2A or in an inset.

      We hope that the reviewer agrees that the zoomed in model in Figure 5A (alongside MAP7) provides a sufficiently detailed view of the structural interface to highlight the orientation of TPR1 with respect to CC1. The side chain contacts in the model are very plausible and confidently predicted (and can be straightforwardly reproduced in AF3 using the sequence information provided in the methods), but as our study has not explored this interaction at the single residue level, we would prefer not to imply this to the reader at this stage.

      (3) The authors' model of cargo-induced TPR dislocation is convincing. However, the Discussion could benefit from a clarification on whether both KLC-TPR domains are expected to be bound simultaneously or if a dynamic exchange occurs, as the EM data suggest potential asymmetry.

      Thank you, please see point 5 below where we have modified the discussion to reflect the reviewer’s thoughtful comments.

      (4) The HDX-MS analysis is comprehensive, but the authors may want to briefly comment on the coverage of low-signal regions (especially within CC2-CC3) to enhance clarity.

      We have added an additional supplementary figure (S10) showing sequence coverage. Overall, this is 88% but with some lower coverage around KHC-CC0 (neck) and the acidic linker that connects the KLC coiled-coil to the TPR. We have added a note to the main text to reflect this.

      “Sequence coverage was high (overall 88%) with the exception of KHC-CC0 (neck coil) and the acidic-linker region that connects the KLC coiled-coil to the TPR domains where coverage was lower”

      (5) In the Discussion, the proposed interplay between MAP7 and cargo adaptors is intriguing, especially considering the results from Anna Akhmanova's lab showing that MAP7 activates kinesin-1 processivity. Do the authors suggest that competition for CC1 is mutually exclusive or sequential? The answer has mechanistic implications.

      We have been considering questions for some time, and the short answer is that we don’t fully understand the dynamics yet. However, we appreciate the reviewer’s prompt to clarify our thinking on this. We have attempted to do this in a revised discussion section where we more explicitly outline these outstanding questions.

    1. Author response:

      eLife Assessment

      This manuscript provides an important contribution to the field of platelet biogenesis, and the convincing evidence will advance our understanding of signal transduction driving the development of late megakaryopoiesis and platelet reactivity that results in bleeding diathesis. The paper is noteworthy for analyzing two related, either singly or in combination, tyrosine phosphatases in this conditional, stage development gene knockout. Because SHP1 is a negative regulator and SHP2 is an activator, the synergistic effects found in the double knockout were surprising.

      We thank the reviewer for acknowledging the importance and novelty of our findings.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Barré et al. investigated the role of Shp1 and Shp2 in megakaryocytes (MKs) and platelets by conditional knock-out of Shp1, Shp2, or both under the control of the Gp1ba promoter. Deletion of Shp1 and Shp2 in MKs and platelets was almost complete. The Shp1/Shp2 double knock-out mice displayed macrothrombocytopenia and increased bleeding, whereas the single knock-outs did not show significant defects. Platelet function was aberrant in DKOs, but not in single knock-outs, and so was ligand-induced signaling, particularly Syk phosphorylation.

      Megakaryocyte maturation was impaired in Shp1/Shp2 DKO mice. Ligand-induced signaling was impaired in Shp2 knock-out and DKO. Ex vivo formation of platelets and in vivo maturation of MKs were impaired in DKO mice. Pharmacological inhibitors of Shp1 and Shp2 had largely similar effects as observed in the single knock-outs. The authors conclude that Shp1 and Shp2 have synergistic functions in the MK/platelet lineage, and that Shp2 may be a potential therapeutic target in myeloproliferative neoplasms.

      Strengths:

      The data clearly show effects of the Shp1/Shp2 double knock-out on MKs and platelets.

      Weaknesses:

      There appears to be a discrepancy between the results with the Shp2 single knock-out and the Shp2 inhibitor: the Shp2 knock-out does not affect MKs and platelets, except Erk1/2 signaling, whereas the Shp2 inhibitors appear to affect MK function.

      This work is interesting and may have potential from a therapeutic point of view.

      Pharmacological effects do not always correlate with congenital anomalies arising for genetic defects. The Shp2 allosteric inhibitors used in our study only inhibit catalytically inactive Shp2, whereas targeted deletion of Ptpn11 results in a loss of total Shp2 expression, including catalytic and non-catalytic related functions, with developmental consequences. Further, Gp1ba-Cre+;Shp2fl/fl megakaryocytes express approximately 22% of normal Shp2 level, which likely also contributes to differences observed between pharmacological inhibition and genetic ablation of Shp2.

      We thank the reviewer for recognizing the therapeutic potential of our findings.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, Barré et al. investigate the roles of the phosphatases Shp1 and Shp2 in the megakaryocyte and platelet lineage using genetic depletion in mice. By employing Gp1ba-Cre-based models, the study builds on the authors' previous work and addresses some limitations associated with earlier Pf4-Cre approaches. The authors report relatively mild alterations in megakaryocyte and platelet parameters in mice lacking either Shp1 or Shp2 alone, whereas combined deletion of both phosphatases results in macrothrombocytopenia, mild bleeding, and impaired GPVI-dependent platelet aggregation accompanied by reduced Syk phosphorylation. The functional platelet defects are linked to reduced expression of GPVI and integrin α2, while thrombocytopenia is associated with impaired megakaryocyte maturation, reduced ploidy, defective proplatelet formation, and altered TPO-dependent Ras/MAPK signaling. Similar effects on megakaryopoiesis are also observed in vitro following treatment with newly developed Shp2 inhibitors.

      Strengths and Weaknesses:

      The study addresses an important biological question and presents a substantial dataset that could contribute to a better understanding of Shp1 and Shp2 function in platelet biology. However, several aspects of data presentation and interpretation would benefit from additional clarification. In particular, while the authors conclude that single genetic deletion or pharmacological inhibition of Shp1 has a limited impact and that the major phenotypes are specific to combined Shp1/2 deletion or Shp2 inhibition, some of the data suggest more nuanced effects that may warrant further discussion.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this point. The manuscript is being revised accordingly, including highlighting the potential role of Shp1 in megakaryopoiesis and thrombopoiesis under steady-state and stressed conditions, requiring more detailed investigation.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, Barré et al utilize the Gp1ba-Cre transgenic mouse model to build upon previous findings in a Pf4-Cre system to investigate the effects of individual and combined Shp1 and Shp2 deletion in megakaryocytes and platelets. They report decreased megakaryocyte maturation, macrothrombocytopenia, and increased bleeding primarily in association with the Shp1/Shp2 double-knockout condition. The authors further show that this phenotype appears to be driven primarily by Shp2 and implicate dysregulation of Mpl signaling and downstream Ras/MAPK pathways, including ERK1/2. Given the key role of these pathways in human diseases such as myeloproliferative neoplasms and the challenges associated with modulating such a central pathway, identification of a specific regulator of Mpl signaling poses intriguing questions for future studies on clinical applicability.

      We thank the reviewer for acknowledging the importance and novelty of our findings.

      Strengths:

      Overall, the experiments combine in vitro, in vivo, and ex vivo approaches and appear to have been carefully designed and carried out, with multiple technical and biological replicates where relevant. The authors make a compelling argument for using the Gp1baCre as opposed to the Pf4-Cre system and demonstrate both the dose- and stagedependent effects of Shp1 and Shp2 on megakaryopoiesis and thrombopoiesis. They find that Shp1 and Shp2 are required in late-stage megakaryocyte maturation and that even low levels of expression compared to baseline are likely sufficient to yield generally normal megakaryocytes. Their findings also lead to specific future directions, such as the mechanism by which Shp1 regulates megakaryopoiesis and thrombopoiesis that is distinct from TPO-mediated signaling.

      Weaknesses:

      While the experiments have been thoughtfully designed and carried out, there is limited background explanation on relatively complex or niche pathways/mechanisms, such as the relationship between P-selectin, CRP, and PAR4p; the interactions between SFK, Syk, GPVI, and CLEC-2; and TPO, MPL, ERK1/2, AKT, and STAT3, which, while likely intuitive to experts in their respective fields, may be less obvious to a reader approaching this manuscript with a global interest in megakaryopoiesis/thrombopoiesis and thus detract from the impact of the findings.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this point. The manuscript is being revised, to better explain the rationale and molecular mechanisms linking these pathways and functions.

      With regard to the science itself, some of the conclusions feel premature based on the available data.

      (1) The section "Aberrant ITAM signaling in Shp1- and Shp2-deficient platelets" is challenging to follow for those not well-versed in ITAM signaling and associated pathways, and may take additional outside reading to follow the conclusion that Syk-dependent signaling is modulated downstream of GPVI and CLEC-2 based on lack of change in Src p-Tyr418, especially considering that Src p-Tyr418 was previously introduced as a measure of SFK rather than Syk. In the introduction, Shp1 is specifically mentioned as a negative regulator of the ITAM/Syk/phospholipase pathway. However, in Figure 4Ai and Bi, Syk phosphorylation/activation in Shp1 knockout cells did not appear to be different from Shp2 knockout cells, and is lower than the control, which is surprising for a negative regulator. It is also not clear why, in the section (Figure 4A-B), there is reduced Syk activation in Shp1 and Shp2 single knockout cells upon CLEC2 stimulation (but apparently not with CRP) when there was no difference in response to CLEC2 (but a difference in response to CRP) in the previous section (Figure 3A, C).

      We thank the reviewer for raising these important points. The manuscript is being revised accordingly, including clarifying the roles of SFKs, Shp1 and Shp2 in the ITAM-Syk-PLCg2 signaling pathway.

      Briefly, SFKs are essential for phosphorylating ITAMs, allowing SH2-dependent docking of Syk. Reduced reactivity of Shp1/2 DKO platelets to CRP and collagen is likely due to downregulation of the ITAM-containing GPVI-FcR g-chain complex and integrin a2 subunit, and concomitant reduction in Syk phosphorylation.

      However, the marginal albeit significant reduction in Syk phosphorylation downstream of CLEC-2 in Shp1 and Shp2 KO platelets was not determined and was insufficient to impact CLEC-2-mediated platelet aggregation under the conditions tested.

      Differences in the stoichiometry and docking of Syk to phosphorylated GPVI-FcR g-chain and CLEC-2 likely contribute to the differences in platelet reactivity and Syk phosphorylation downstream of the two receptors in the absence of Shp1 and Shp2.

      (2) In the section "Reduced Tpo signaling in Shp1/2-deficient MKs," only Western blot data for (p)ERK1/2, AKT, and STAT3 are presented before concluding that decreased ERK1/2 activity is a mechanistic explanation for thrombocytopenia seen in the Shp1/2 doubleknockout condition. Such a statement would benefit from additional experiments, such as protein or transcriptional levels of ERK1/2 targets specifically relevant to megakaryopoiesis, such as ETS, FOS, and JUN, to assess the consequences of decreased phosphorylated ERK1/2.

      We thank the reviewers for these constructive comments. Further experiments are being planned to determine the biological and transcriptional consequences of reduced ERK1/2 phosphorylation during megakaryopoiesis and thrombopoiesis.

      (3) Suggesting that "inhibiting Shp2 will not have any bleeding consequence in patients" and that Shp2 may be a therapeutic target in myeloproliferative neoplasms when none of these studies have been carried out in a human model is a bold conclusion. There are no data presented on, for example, whether Shp2 inhibition can help reverse the MPL/JAK/STAT pathway in the setting of gain-of-function mutations specifically associated with myeloproliferative neoplasms.

      This conclusion is being tempered in the revised manuscript. Genetic- and pharmacological-based approaches will be used to establish the therapeutic potential of inhibiting Shp1 and Shp2 in mouse models of MPN, including Jak2 gain-of-function mice. Bleeding and thrombotic complications of inhibiting Shp1 and Shp2 will be explored as part of these studies.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer # 1 (Public review):

      (1) Structure and Presentation of Results

      • I recommend reordering the visual-cue experiments to progress from simpler conditions (no cues) to more complex ones (cue-conflict). This would improve narrative logic and accessibility for non-specialist readers. The authors have chosen not to implement this suggestion, which I respect, but my recommendation stands.

      Thank you for this suggestion. We understand your point that presenting the experiments from simpler to more complex conditions may seem more intuitive. However, we have kept the original order because it better reflects the logic of the study itself. Our work first asked whether fall armyworms, like the Bogong moth, use a magnetic compass that is integrated with visual cues. Only after establishing this behavioral feature did we go on to test whether visual cues are required to maintain magnetic orientation. To make this reasoning clearer to readers, we have explicitly stated in the Introduction that magnetic orientation in the Bogong moth depends on the integration of visual cues, which provides clearer context for the experimental design.

      (2) Ecological Interpretation

      • The authors should expand their discussion on how the highly simplified, static cue setup translates to natural migratory conditions, where landmarks are dynamic, transient, or absent. Specifically, further consideration is needed on how the compass might function when landmarks shift position, become obscured, or are replaced by celestial cues. Additionally, the discussion would benefit from a more consolidated section with concrete suggestions for future experiments involving transient, multiple, or more naturalistic visual cues. This point was addressed partially in one paragraph of the Discussion, which reads as follows:

      "In nature, they are likely to encounter a range of luminance-gradient visual cues, including relatively stable celestial cues as well as transient or shifting local features encountered en route. Although such natural cues differ from our simplified laboratory stimulus, they may represent intermittently sampled visual inputs that can be optimally integrated with magnetic information, with the congruency between visual and magnetic cues likely playing a key role in maintaining a stable compass response. Whether the cues are static or changing, brief periods without them may still allow the subsequent recovery of a stable long-distance orientation strategy. Determining which types of natural visual cues support the magnetic-visual compass, and how they interact with magnetic information, including how their momentary alignment or angular relationship is integrated and how such visual cue-magnetic field interactions may require time to influence orientation, together with elucidating the genetic and ecological bases of multimodal orientation, will be important objectives for future research." While this paragraph is informative, the wording remains lengthy, somewhat unclear, and vague. Shorter, clearer statements would improve readability and impact. For example:

      • How could moths maintain direction during periods when only the magnetic field is present and visual landmarks are absent?

      • Could celestial cues (e.g., stars) compensate, and what happens if these are also obscured?

      • What role does saliency play when multiple visual landmarks are present simultaneously?

      • How might a complex skyline without salient landmarks affect orientation?

      Including simple, concise sentences that pose concrete open questions and suggest experimental designs would strengthen the discussion without creating space issues. In my view, a comprehensive discussion of how the simplified, static cue setup relates to natural migratory conditions-where landmarks are dynamic, transient, or absent-would add significant value to the paper.

      Thank you for this constructive and insightful comment. You correctly point out that our articulation of the ecological relevance of the simplified, static cue setup was not sufficiently clear. We also agree that the original wording in the Discussion remained overly general. In the revised Discussion, we updated the manuscript to incorporate recently published findings on the use of light–dark gradients for orientation in fall armyworms. However, we explicitly note that it remains unclear whether fall armyworms can exploit naturally occurring luminance gradients, such as those generated by the moon, for orientation under natural conditions. We further emphasize that during natural migration the visual environment is dynamic, with celestial cues available intermittently and local visual features changing continuously during flight. In this context, we outline several key unresolved questions, including whether celestial cues can compensate when local landmarks are absent; how multiple visual cues are weighted and integrated with geomagnetic information; how transient visual cues (like moving clouds or changing illumination) influence orientation; and how luminance gradients that are common in natural nocturnal environments interact with the geomagnetic field to support orientation. For each of these issues, we briefly suggest experimental approaches to guide future research.

      (3) Methodological Details and Reproducibility

      • The lack of luminance level measurements should be explicitly highlighted.

      Thank you for your helpful suggestion. You are right that luminance level is an important experimental parameter. We have stated this information in the Methods section under Behavioral apparatus: “The ambient light level in the experimental environment was measured to be below 1 lux using a Testo 540 lux meter (Testo SE & Co. KGaA, Titisee-Neustadt, Germany). Further work is still required to compare the illuminance used in this study with that under natural conditions, which are inherently variable.” This point is also clarified in the legend of Figure S3 in the supplementary material.

      • The authors chose not to adjust figure legends by replacing "magnetic South" with "magnetic North." While I believe this would be more conventional and preferable, this is ultimately a minor stylistic issue.

      Thank you very much for your suggestion. We understand your point and agree that using “magnetic North” would be more conventional. However, because our experiments focus on the orientation behavior of the autumn population, magnetic South is aligned with the landmark direction representing the potential migratory direction, which we believe makes the figures more intuitive for readers. We therefore consider this a minor stylistic issue.

      (4) Conceptual Framing and Discussion

      • Although the authors made a good attempt to explain the limitations of using an artificial visual cue, I believe there is room or a more explicit argument. For example, it could be stated clearly that this species is unlikely to encounter a situation in nature where a single, highly salient landmark coincides with its migratory direction. Therefore, how these findings translate to real migratory contexts remains an open question. A sentence or two making this point directly would strengthen the discussion.

      Thank you for your helpful suggestion. We now address this point explicitly in the Discussion, noting that fall armyworms are unlikely to experience a natural visual environment dominated by a single, static, and highly salient landmark coinciding with their migratory direction. Consequently, how these findings translate to real migratory contexts remains an open question.

      (5) Technical and Open-Science Points

      • Sharing the R code openly (e.g., via GitHub) should be seriously considered. The code does not need to be perfectly formatted, but making it available would be highly beneficial from an open-science perspective.

      Thank you for the suggestion. We agree that making code openly available is valuable from an open-science perspective. The MMRT script used in this study is Moore’s Modified Rayleigh Test, available from the original publication by Massy et al. (2021; https://doi.org/10.1098/rspb.2021.1805). In the previous version, we only cited this reference in the Materials and Methods section; we have now added a direct link to the script to improve clarity and accessibility. We have also provided a public link to the data-recording scripts used in the Flash Flight Simulator (https://doi.org/10.17632/6jkvpybswd.1). This repository additionally includes a map-based optical flow script that was not used in the present study but is shared for completeness.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      • LL. 133-137 (end of paragraph starting with "The fall armyworm is a migratory crop pest native to the Americas"): Suggest splitting into shorter, clearer sentences. The limitations of this method could be better articulated here and elaborated in the Discussion.

      Thank you for this suggestion. We have revised this paragraph by splitting it into shorter, clearer sentences and by articulating the limitations of this method more explicitly. These limitations are further elaborated in the Discussion.

      • LL. 181-185 (end of paragraph starting with "To examine if fall armyworms integrate geomagnetic and visual cues for seasonal migratory orientation"): It would be helpful to state explicitly that season-specific headings have been confirmed in the lab using a flight simulator, but destination regions remain unknown without further tracking experiments.

      Thank you for this helpful suggestion. We have now clarified in the revised manuscript that season-specific orientation headings have been confirmed in the laboratory using a flight simulator, while the actual migratory destination regions remain unclear in the absence of tracking experiments.

      • LL. 230-234 (start of paragraph "Our previous research showed that fall armyworms reared under artificially simulated fall conditions…"): Clarify which migratory season is being referenced.

      Thank you for this helpful suggestion. We have clarified in the text that the migratory season referenced here is the autumn migratory season. In addition, we have added information in the Methods to specify the actual calendar season during which the insects were reared under the simulated conditions.

      • LL. 270-272 (middle of Fig. 2 caption): Suggest explicitly mentioning that for this population, the seasonally appropriate direction is southbound in autumn and northbound in spring, as this may not be clear to non-specialists.

      Thank you for this helpful suggestion. We have now explicitly stated the seasonally appropriate migratory directions for this population, indicating southbound migration in autumn and northbound migration in spring, to improve clarity for non-specialist readers.

      • LL. 421 (middle of paragraph starting with "We also considered the limitations of the Rayleigh test…"): Add that the groups lacking visual cues exhibited "lower directedness as per lower vector length (r)" in addition to lower flight stability.

      Thank you for this helpful suggestion. We further note that the conclusions drawn from the flight stability analysis are consistent with those based on individual r-value analyses.

      • LL. 499-501 ("unlike some vertebrates that can rely solely on magnetic information (Mouritsen, 2018)"): This point is slightly downplayed. It should be emphasized that nearly all tested vertebrates and invertebrates (e.g., birds, mole rats, fish, frogs, and other insects) demonstrate a magnetic compass without requiring visual landmarks. Moths are the only tested invertebrates so far that show landmark-magnetic field dependency for their magnetic compass to be manifested in a behavioural orientation response in Flight Simulator.

      Thank you for this important comment. We agree that this point represents a key synthesis in the Discussion, as it concerns how our findings relate to, and differ from, magnetic orientation demonstrated in other animal groups. We have therefore expanded the Discussion to note that studies have shown that some animals can exhibit directional preferences in simplified visual environments solely in response to changes in the magnetic field, and we now cite representative examples from birds and mole rats. At the same time, we also acknowledge important methodological and phenotypic differences among taxa. In particular, moths’ magnetic orientation has been assessed using a flight simulator, a setup in which stable directional behavior must be actively maintained during continuous movement. This is an important difference from orientation assays in birds during take-off or in terrestrial mammals such as mole rats. Moreover, whether birds and other animals rely on visual input to detect or calibrate magnetic information under certain conditions remains an open question. We therefore emphasize here both the phenotypic differences observed across experimental systems and the methodological considerations.

      • LL. 560-565 (paragraph starting with "Our flight simulator system (Dreyer et al., 2021) …"): Suggest clarifying what the Flash flight simulator system is and how it differs from the Mouritsen-Frost flight simulator.

      Thank you for this suggestion. We have added a brief clarification of the Flash flight simulator and how it differs from the Mouritsen–Frost system.

      • LL. 605-608 ("Spectral measurements …"): Explicitly mention that total illuminance was not measured and that further work is required to compare the illuminance used with natural conditions which of course vary.

      Thank you for this helpful suggestion. We agree that total illuminance is an important factor. We have now added a statement noting that the ambient light level in the experimental environment was measured to be below 1 lux using a Testo 540 lux meter, and we further acknowledge that additional work is required to compare the illuminance used in this study with that under naturally variable conditions.

      • LL. 628-641 (end of paragraph starting with "Electromagnetic noise at the experimental site ... "): Explain why this matters for interpreting behavioural responses. Highlight that although conditions were somewhat magnetically noisy which based on the past work may disrupt magnetic compass as it was shown in birds (eg Engels et al. 2014 Nature), the observed magnetic response under certain conditions indicates that the magnetic sense remained functional when landmark and magnetic field were aligned. This way you can pre-empt this criticism of your magnetic conditions being not ideal and noise on the left handside of the spectrum measured (which is not uncommon).

      Thank you for this helpful suggestion. We have now cited Engels et al. (2014, Nature) in this section and expanded the text to explain why electromagnetic noise at the experimental site is relevant for interpreting the behavioural responses. We also clarify the rationale for measuring electromagnetic noise and discuss the observed low-frequency (“left-hand side”) noise in the spectrum.

      • Fig. 51: Suggest adapting Y-axes and using violin or box plots (e.g., panels A/B starting from 30 up to 50, etc.).

      Thank you for this helpful suggestion. We have revised Fig. 5 accordingly by adapting the Y-axis scaling and replacing the original plots with box plots, as suggested.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      The researchers aimed to identify which neurotransmitter pathways are required for animals to withstand chronic oxidative stress. This work thus has important implications for disease processes that are caused/linked to oxidative stress. This work identified specific neurotransmitters and receptors that coordinate stress resilience, both prior to and during stress exposure. Further, the authors identified specific transcriptional programs coordinated by neurotransmission that may provide stress resistance.

      Strengths:

      The manuscript is very clearly written with a well-formulated rationale. Standard C. elegans genetic analysis and rescue experiments were performed to identify key regulators of the chronic oxidative stress response. These findings were enhanced by transcriptional profiling that identified differentially expressed genes that likely affect survival when animals are exposed to stress.

      We thank the reviewer for their positive assessment.

      Weaknesses:

      Where the gar-3 promoter drives expression was not discussed in the context of the rescue experiments in Figure 7.

      We now provide information about expression using 7.5 kb gar-3 promoter fragment  and compare directly with our analysis of endogenous gar-3 expression using the genome-modified gar-3::SL2::GFP strain (Page 16, new Figures 8 and S3).

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Figure 3B is not mentioned in the text.

      Fixed. Figure 3B is now called out on page 10 of the revised manuscript.

      (2) The rationale for using the specific PQ concentration was not provided.

      We selected this concentration based on its use for chronic assays by other studies in the field to allow for direct comparison with our results. We now clarify this point in the Methods section (Page 26 of the revised text).

      (3) Transgenic animals injected with the unc-17βp::gar-3 transgene (25 ng/μL) displayed strikingly increased survival in the presence of 4 mM PQ compared to either gar-3 mutants or wild type (should have a Figure cited here)

      Fixed. Figure 9E is now referenced on Page 19 of the revised text.

      (4) The text describing Figure 7C details a comparison with the gar-3 single mutant but the graph shows the unc-17 single mutant

      Figure 7C is a comparison of the survival of gar-3 single mutants with either wild type or gar-3;ric-3 double mutants as described in the text.

      Reviewer #2 (public comments)

      In this paper, Biswas et al. describe the role of acetylcholine (ACh) signaling in protection against chronic oxidative stress in C. elegans. They showed that disruption of ACh signaling in either unc-17 mutants or gar-3 mutants led to sensitivity to toxicity caused by chronic paraquat (PQ) treatment. Using RNA seq, they found that approximately 70% of the genes induced by chronic PQ exposure in wild type failed to upregulate in these mutants. The overexpression of gar-3 selectively in cholinergic neurons was sufficient to promote protection against chronic PQ exposure in an ACh-dependent manner. The study points to a previously undescribed role for ACh signaling in providing organism-wide protection from chronic oxidative stress, likely through the transcriptional regulation of numerous oxidative stressresponse genes. The paper is well-written, and the data are robust, though some conclusions seem preliminary and do not fully support the current data. While the study identifies the muscarinic ACh receptor gar-3 as an important regulator of the response to PQ, the specific neurons in which gar-3 functions were not unambiguously identified, and the sources of ACh that regulate GAR-3 signaling and the identities of the tissues targeted by gar-3 were not addressed, limiting the scope of the study.

      We thank the reviewer for their positive assessment. We provide additional data and discussion of the points raised by the reviewer in the revised manuscript. In particular, as suggested by the reviewer, we conducted additional tissue-specific rescue experiments to try to better define GAR-3 site of action. We found that specific rescue of gar-3 expression in either cholinergic motor neurons or muscles each provide partial rescue. In addition, we quantified the expression of the nhr-185 and fbxa-73 genes, identified as upregulated by PQ in our RNA-seq studies, following oxidative stress (new Fig. S4). We observed increased expression of both genes following PQ exposure, providing independent confirmation for transcriptional upregulation of these genes as part of the stress response. See the responses to points #1 and #3 below for additional details.

      Major Comments:

      (1) The site of action of cholinergic signaling for protection from PQ was not adequately explored. The authors' conclusion that cholinergic motor neurons are protective is based on studies using overexpression of gar-3 and an unc-17 allele that may selectively disrupt ACh in cholinergic motor neurons (Figure 9F), but these approaches are indirect. To more directly address the site of action, the authors should conduct rescue experiments using well-defined heterologous promoters. Figure 7G shows that gar-3 expressed under a 7.5 kb promoter fragment fully rescues the defect of gar-3 mutants, but the authors did not report where this promoter fragment is expressed, nor did they conduct rescue experiments of the specific tissues where gar-3 is known to be expressed (cholinergic neurons, GABAergic neurons, pharynx, or muscles). UNC-17 rescue experiments could also be useful to address the site of action. Does expression of unc-17 selectively in cholinergic motor neurons rescue the stress sensitivity of unc-17 mutants (or restore resistance to gar-3(OE); unc-17 mutants)? These experiments may also address whether ACh acts in an autocrine or paracrine manner to activate gar-3, which would be an important mechanistic insight to this study that is currently lacking.

      We performed additional rescue experiments using heterologous promoters to drive gar-3 expression in cholinergic neurons or muscle and found that each provided a small, but significant degree of rescue as assessed from Kaplan-Meier survival curves. These results are presented in Figure 8 of the revised manuscript. We have not conducted similar unc-17 rescue experiments; however, we point out that cellspecific unc-17 knockdown by RNAi using the unc-17b promoter (expression largely restricted to ventral cord ACh motor neurons) increases sensitivity to PQ in our long-term survival assays (Figure 3A). Combined with our analysis of unc-17(e113) mutants, we believe these results support a requirement for unc-17 expression in cholinergic motor neurons.

      (2) The genetic pan-neuronal silencing experiments presented in Figure 1 motivated the subsequent experiments, but the authors did not relate these observations to ACh/gar-3 signaling. For example, the authors did not address whether silencing just the cholinergic motor neurons at the different times tested has the same effects on survival as pan-neuronal silencing.

      We used the pan-neuronal silencing to motivate further analysis of various neurotransmitter systems. Our genetic studies implicate both glutamatergic and cholinergic systems in protective responses to oxidative stress. The effects of pan-neuronal silencing on survival during long-term PQ exposure may therefore be derived solely from cholinergic neurons, glutamatergic neurons, or a combination of both neuronal populations. Distinguishing between these possibilities may be quite complicated and is not central to the main message of our paper. We therefore suggest this additional analysis lies outside the scope of this revision. Nonetheless, to address the reviewer’s point, in the revised text we expand our discussion relating the pan-neuronal silencing results to our analysis of ACh signaling (pages 21-22).

      (3) It is assumed that protection occurs through inter-tissue signaling of ACh to target tissues, where it impacts gene expression. While this is a reasonable assumption, it has not been directly shown here. It is recommended that the authors examine GFP reporter expression of a sampling of the genes identified in this study (including proteasomal genes that the authors highlight) that are regulated by unc-17 and gar-3. This would serve to independently confirm the RNAseq data and to identify target tissues that are subject to gene expression regulation by ACh, which would significantly strengthen the study.

      Agreed. To address this question, we investigated expression of the nhr-185 and fbxa-73 genes implicated as upregulated by oxidative stress in our RNA-seq studies. Consistent with our RNA-seq findings, we observed significantly increased expression of a nhr-185pr::GFP transcriptional reporter, primarily in the pharynx and anterior intestine, following 48 hrs of PQ exposure. These results support transcriptional upregulation of expression in these tissues as part of the stress response. fbxa-73 was among the proteasomal genes implicated as oxidative stress-responsive by RNA-seq. Consistent with this finding, by quantitative RT-PCR we observed a significant increase in fbxa-73 expression in wild type animals following 48 hrs of PQ treatment. These new results provide independent confirmation of the gene expression changes we observed by RNA-seq and are now included in new Figure S4 and discussed on Pages 17-18 of the revised manuscript.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) As an independent way of addressing whether enhanced ACh signaling is sufficient for protection, the authors could examine stress resistance in ace mutants, as was reported in PMID: 39097618, or in mutants with increased ACh secretion.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. We are pursuing the impacts of increased cholinergic activation in a separate study. We are pursuing experiments along the lines the reviewer suggests as one facet of this independent study. Our findings here provide evidence that increasing GAR-3 signaling in ACh motor neurons by cell-specific overexpression enhances protection. 

      (2) To address the specificity of ACh signaling by gar-3 for this response, the authors could report survival data for mutants lacking each of the other two mACh receptors, gar-1 and gar-2.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. We now include new data showing that gar-3;gar-2 double mutants have similar survival to gar-3 single mutants in the presence of PQ new Figure 7F). We agree that further studies of additional GPCRs (e.g. gar-1 and metabotropic glutamate receptors) will be required to definitively establish specificity for GAR-3 and we now acknowledge this point on page 15 of the revised text.

      (3) Do carbonylation levels correlate with toxicity? For example, do gar-3 mutants have more carbonylation and gar-3 OE have less?

      This is an interesting question. To try to address this, we performed additional protein carbonylation experiments for unc-17 and gar-3 mutants. We found a similar increase in protein carbonylation following PQ exposure for gar-3 mutants as observed for wild type; however, we also noted a higher level a batch-to-batch variability for gar-3 compared with wild type and are therefore hesitant to draw firm conclusions. We have not included these data in the revised manuscript but provide them for the reviewer’s information here (Author response image 1 shows our prior N2 data for comparison). We were not able to conduct similar experiments for unc-17 mutants because we noted local starvation when the animals were grown at the high density required to obtain the protein quantities needed for these experiments.

      Author response image 1.

      (4) Citations in text for Figures 4A and 8A are missing.

      Fixed. Figures 4A and 8A (now 9A) are cited on pages 10 and 17 of the revised text, respectively.

      (5) Figures 4-6 and 8 have limited information content. Condense or move to supplementary.

      While we acknowledge the reviewer’s viewpoint here, we believe that the analyses of the transcriptional responses described in Figures 4-6 and 8 are central to the study. To address reviewers’ comments, we have included a new Figure 8 and merged previous Figures 8 and 9 (new Figure 9) in the revised manuscript.

      (6) "expression of" is repeated in "Finally, transgenic expression of expression of a wild-type GAR-3::YFP"

      Fixed.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      eLife Assessment

      This important study shows that orientation tuning of V1 neurons is suppressed during a continuous flash suppression paradigm, especially when the neurons have a binocular receptive field. However, the evidence presented is incomplete and, in particular, does not distinguish whether this suppression is due to reduced contrast or due to masking.

      This assessment is primarily based on the critique of Reviewer 2 that our results do not distinguish whether the impact of CFS is due to reduced contrast or due to masking. Reviewer 2 referred to Yuval-Greenberg and Heeger (2013), noting that: “V1 activity is, in fact, reduced during CFS … the mask reduces the gain of neural responses to the grating stimulus … making it invisible in the same way that reducing contrast makes a stimulus invisible.” To be precise, Yuval-Greenberg and Heeger (2013) used “akin to”, instead of “the same way”, in their abstract.

      We agree that CFS masking and contrast reduction can both lower the signal-to-noise ratio and thereby reducing visibility. However, these two factors operate in fundamentally different ways. According to gain control models by Heeger and others, reducing the physical contrast of a stimulus decreases the excitatory drive, while dichoptic masking increases the normalization pool. Our findings therefore reflect genuine masking-induced suppression and are not attributable to stimulus contrast reduction.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Disclaimer: While I am familiar with the CFS method and the CFS literature, I am not familiar with primate research or two-photon calcium imaging. Additionally, I may be biased regarding unconscious processing under CFS, as I have extensively investigated this area but have found no compelling evidence in favor of unconscious processing under CFS.

      This manuscript reports the results of a nonhuman-primate study (N=2 behaving macaque monkeys) investigating V1 responses under continuous flash suppression (CFS). The results show that CFS substantially suppressed V1 orientation responses, albeit slightly differently in the two monkeys. The authors conclude that CFS-suppressed orientation information "may not suffice for high-level visual and cognitive processing" (abstract).

      The manuscript is clearly written and well-organized. The conclusions are supported by the data and analyses presented (but see disclaimer). However, I believe that the manuscript would benefit from a more detailed discussion of the different results observed for monkeys A and B (i.e., inter-individual differences), and how exactly the observed results are related to findings of higher-order cognitive processing under CFS, on the one hand, and the "dorsal-ventral CFS hypothesis", on the other hand.

      Thanks for reviewer’s helpful comments and suggestions. We added new contents discussing the inter-individual differences and the "dorsal-ventral CFS hypothesis" in the revision, and made other changes, which are detailed below.

      Major Comments:

      (1) Some references are imprecise. For example, l.53: "Nevertheless, two fMRI studies reported that V1 activity is either unaffected or only weakly affected (Watanabe et al., 2011; Yuval-Greenberg & Heeger, 2013)". "To the best of my understanding, the second study reaches a conclusion that is entirely opposite to that of the first, specifically that for low-contrast, invisible stimuli, stimulus-evoked fMRI BOLD activity in the early visual cortex (V1-V3) is statistically indistinguishable from activity observed during stimulus-absent (mask-only) trials. Therefore, high-level unconscious processing under CFS should not be possible if Yuval-Greenberg & Heeger are correct. The two studies contradict each other; they do not imply the same thing.

      Sorry we did not make our point clear. Our original concern was that the effects of CFS on V1 activity were underestimated, even in Yuval-Greenberg & Heeger (2013), as both studies compared monocular and dichoptic masking to estimate the influence of visibility. In contrast, in original psychophysical studies, the CFS effect was compared with or with dichoptic masking, which is expected to be stronger. We rewrote the paragraph to clarify.

      “Two prominent fMRI studies have examined the impact of CFS on V1 activity (Watanabe et al., 2011; Yuval-Greenberg & Heeger, 2013). Watanabe et al. (2011) compared monocular CFS masking (stimulus visible) and dichoptic CFS masking (stimulus invisible), and reported that V1 BOLD responses were largely insensitive to stimulus visibility when attention was carefully controlled. However, using similar experimental design, Yuval-Greenberg and Heeger (2013) observed reduced BOLD responses in V1 under dichoptic masking, suggesting that V1 activity changed with stimulus visibility. They attributed the difference of results between two studies mainly to differences in statistical power (~250 trials per condition vs. ~90 trials per condition). Nevertheless, these studies were not designed to quantify the pure effect of CFS on stimulus-evoked V1 responses, as they contrasted monocular and dichoptic masking conditions to equate stimulus input while manipulating perceptual visibility. In contrast, original psychophysical studies (Tsuchiya & Koch, 2005; Tsuchiya, Koch, Gilroy, & Blake, 2006) demonstrated CFS masking by contrasting the visibility of the target stimulus with and without the presence of dichoptic mask. It is apparent that the pure CFS impact in above fMRI studies would be the difference of BOLD signals between binocular masking and stimulus alone conditions. In other words, the impact of CFS on V1 activity should be larger than what has been reported by Yuval-Greenberg and Heeger (2013).” (lines 55-71)

      (2) Line 354: "The flashing masker was a circular white noise pattern with a diameter of 1.89°, a contrast of 0.5, and a flickering rate of 10 Hz. The white noise consisted of randomly generated black and white blocks (0.07 × 0.07 each)." Why did the authors choose a white noise stimulus as the CFS mask? It has previously been shown that the depth of suppression engendered by CFS depends jointly on the spatiotemporal composition of the CFS and the stimulus it is competing with (Yang & Blake, 2012). For example, Hesselmann et al. (2016) compared Mondrian versus random dot masks using the probe detection technique (see Supplementary Figure S4 in the reference below) and found only a poor masking performance of the random dot masks.

      Yang, E., & Blake, R. (2012). Deconstructing continuous flash suppression. Journal of Vision, 12(3), 8. https://doi.org/10.1167/12.3.8

      Hesselmann, G., Darcy, N., Ludwig, K., & Sterzer, P. (2016). Priming in a shape task but not in a category task under continuous flash suppression. Journal of Vision, 16, 1-17.

      In a previous human psychophysical study, we also used the same noise pattern and the CFS effect appeared to be robust (Xiong et al., 2016, https://doi.org/10.7554/eLife.14614). However, we believe that the reviewer made a good point, and weaker suppression due to the use of our stimulus pattern may have contributed to the weaker suppression in Monkey B. This issue is now discussed in the revision regarding the individual variability in our results.

      “In addition, the random-noise masker we used might not be as effective as Mondrian patterns (G. Hesselmann, Darcy, Ludwig, & Sterzer, 2016). If reduced stimulus contrast and a Mondrian masker were used, we predict that CFS suppression in Monkey B would strengthen, potentially approaching the level observed in Monkey A. Nevertheless, it is worth emphasizing that our main conclusions are primarily based on data from Monkey A, who exhibited much stronger CFS suppression.” (lines 321-327)

      (3) Related to my previous point: I guess we do not know whether the monkeys saw the CF-suppressed grating stimuli or not? Therefore, could it be that the differences between monkey A and B are due to a different individual visibility of the suppressed stimuli? Interocular suppression has been shown to be extremely variable between participants (see reference below). This inter-individual variability may, in fact, be one of the reasons why the CFS literature is so heterogeneous in terms of unconscious cognitive processing: due to the variability in interocular suppression, a significant amount of data is often excluded prior to analysis, leading to statistical inconsistencies.

      Yamashiro, H., Yamamoto, H., Mano, H., Umeda, M., Higuchi, T., & Saiki, J. (2014). Activity in early visual areas predicts interindividual differences in binocular rivalry dynamics. Journal of Neurophysiology, 111(6), 1190-1202. https://doi.org/10.1152/jn.00509.2013

      The individual difference issue is now explicitly addressed in the Discussion:

      “Interocular suppression under CFS is known to vary substantially across individuals (Blake, Goodman, Tomarken, & Kim, 2019; Gayet & Stein, 2017; Yamashiro et al., 2013). This inter-individual variability may contribute to the heterogeneity observed in the CFS literature. We also found that the strength of V1 response suppression during CFS differed between two monkeys, as reflected by population orientation tuning functions (Fig. 2C), Fisher information (Fig. 2F), and reconstruction performance by the transformer (Fig. 3E). Several experimental factors may have contributed to the relatively weaker suppression observed in Monkey B. Because monkeys viewed the stimuli passively, we could not determine the dominant eye for each monkey (instead we switched the eyes and averaged the results), and the target was presented at relatively high contrast. Both factors are known to reduce the effectiveness of CFS suppression (Yang, Blake, & McDonald, 2010; Yuval-Greenberg & Heeger, 2013). In addition, the random-noise masker we used might not be as effective as Mondrian patterns (G. Hesselmann, Darcy, Ludwig, & Sterzer, 2016). If reduced stimulus contrast and a Mondrian masker were used, we predict that CFS suppression in Monkey B would strengthen, potentially approaching the level observed in Monkey A. Nevertheless, it is worth emphasizing that our main conclusions are primarily based on data from Monkey A, who exhibited much stronger CFS suppression.” (lines 311-327)

      Moreover, the authors' main conclusion (lines 305-307) builds on the assumption that the stimuli were rendered invisible, but isn't this speculation without a measure of awareness?

      We agree. To correct, we have removed the original lines 305-307 discussing the consciousness perception and reframed the manuscript throughout to focus on the impact of CFS on neural coding rather than on perceptual awareness. For example, the title has been changed to:

      “Continuous flashing suppression of neural responses and population orientation coding in macaque V1”,

      and the ending line of Introduction was changed to:

      “This approach enabled us to investigate the potentially differential impacts of CFS on the responses of V1 neurons with varying ocular preferences, as well as apply machine learning tools to understand the impacts of CFS on V1 stimulus coding at the population level.” (lines 81-83)

      (4) The authors refer to the "tool priming" CFS studies by Almeida et al. (l.33, l.280, and elsewhere) and Sakuraba et al. (l.284). A thorough critique of this line of research can be found here:

      Hesselmann, G., Darcy, N., Rothkirch, M., & Sterzer, P. (2018). Investigating Masked Priming Along the "Vision-for-Perception" and "Vision-for-Action" Dimensions of Unconscious Processing. Journal of Experimental Psychology. General. https://doi.org/10.1037/xge0000420

      This line of research ("dorsal-ventral CFS hypothesis") has inspired a significant body of behavioral and fMRI/EEG studies (see reference for a review below). The manuscript would benefit from a brief paragraph in the discussion section that addresses how the observed results contribute to this area of research.

      Ludwig, K., & Hesselmann, G. (2015). Weighing the evidence for a dorsal processing bias under continuous flash suppression. Consciousness and Cognition, 35, 251-259. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.concog.2014.12.010

      In the revision, we added a new paragraph to discussion issues related to the dorsal-ventral CFS hypothesis.

      “A related issue is the dorsal-ventral CFS hypothesis, which proposes that CFS suppression may disproportionately affect ventral visual processing while relatively preserving dorsal pathways involved in visuomotor functions, potentially allowing category- or action-related information to remain accessible under suppression (Fang & He, 2005). However, subsequent fMRI studies have failed to provide consistent support for this dissociation, reporting either stream-invariant awareness effects (Guido Hesselmann & Malach, 2011; Ludwig et al., 2015; Tettamanti et al., 2017), residual signal in ventral rather than dorsal regions (Fogelson et al., 2014; Guido Hesselmann et al., 2011), or residual low-level feature information/partial visibility rather than preserved dorsal processing (Ludwig et al., 2015). Although our study does not directly test dorsal-ventral dissociations, our V1 results provide a constraint on what information downstream visual pathways could access under suppression. When CFS- induced interocular suppression was strong enough and stimuli reconstruction was markedly reduced, as in the case of Monkey A, the information required for category-level or action-related processing may not be sufficient for high-level cortical representation.” (lines 297-310)

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The goal of this study was to investigate the degree to which low-level stimulus features (i.e., grating orientation) are processed in V1 when stimuli are not consciously perceived under conditions of continuous flash suppression (CFS). The authors measured the activity of a population of V1 neurons at single neuron resolution in awake fixating monkeys while they viewed dichoptic stimuli that consisted of an oriented grating presented to one eye and a noise stimulus to the other eye. Under such conditions, the mask stimulus can prevent conscious perception of the grating stimulus. By measuring the activity of neurons (with Ca2+ imaging) that preferred one or the other eye, the authors tested the degree of orientation processing that occurs during CFS.

      Strengths:

      The greatest strength of this study is the spatial resolution of the measurement and the ability to quantify stimulus representations during CSF in populations of neurons, preferring the eye stimulated by either the grating or the mask. There have been a number of prominent fMRI studies of CFS, but all of them have had the limitation of pooling responses across neurons preferring either eye, effectively measuring the summed response across ocular dominance columns. The ability to isolate separate populations offers an exciting opportunity to study the precise neural mechanisms that give rise to CFS, and potentially provide insights into nonconscious stimulus processing.

      Weaknesses:

      While this is an impressive experimental setup, the major weakness of this study is that the experiments don't advance any theoretical account of why CFS occurs or what CFS implies for conscious visual perception. There are two broad camps of thinking with regard to CFS. On the one hand, Watanabe et al. (2011) reported that V1 activity remained intact during CFS, implying that CFS interrupts stimulus processing downstream of V1. On the other hand, Yuval-Greenberg and Heeger (2013) showed that V1 activity is, in fact, reduced during CFS. By using a parametric experimental design, they measured the impact of the mask on the stimulus response as a function of contrast and concluded that the mask reduces the gain of neural responses to the grating stimulus. They presented a theoretical model in which the mask effectively reduced the SNR of the grating, making it invisible in the same way that reducing contrast makes a stimulus invisible.

      We used multi-class SVM (as suggested by reviewer 3) and a transformer-based model to examine the impact of CFS on the classification of 12 orientations spaced in 15o gaps, which resembles coarse orientation discrimination, as well as on stimulus reconstruction, which resembles stimulus perception necessary for high-level cognitive tasks, respectively. The results suggest that under CFS, an observer may still be able to perform coarse orientation discrimination but not high-level cognitive tasks. These findings provide new insights into the implications of CFS for conscious visual perception from a population decoding perspective.

      In the revision, we also added a new paragraph discussing the implications of our findings for the dorsal-ventral CFS hypothesis, as suggested by reviewer 1. We previously presented a gain control model for our neuronal data in a VSS talk. However, we later decided that, since there are already nice models by Heeger and others, it would be better present something more unique and novel (i.e., machine learning results), which has now become a major component of the manuscript. We welcome the reviewer’s comments on this part.

      An important discussion point of Yuval-Greenberg and Heeger is that null results (such as those presented by Watanabe et al.) are difficult to interpret, as the lack of an effect may be simply due to insufficient data. I am afraid that this critique also applies to the present study.

      We are very much puzzled by the reviewer’s critique. First, our main result is not a null effect. A null effect would mean that CFS masking had no impact on population orientation responses. Instead, we observed a significant suppression or abolished tuning, which clearly indicates a strong effect of dichoptic masking. Second, our findings are based on large neural populations recorded using two-photon imaging, providing extensive sampling and statistical power. Thus, we believe that the reviewer’s critique about “insufficient data” are not applicable to our study.

      Here, the authors report that CFS effectively 'abolishes' tuning for stimuli in neurons preferring the eye with the grating stimulus. The authors would have been in a much stronger position to make this claim if they had varied the contrast of the stimulus to show that the loss of tuning was not simply due to masking.

      We are sorry that we cannot follow the logic here either. Even if “the mask effectively reduced the SNR of the grating, making it invisible in the same way that (“akin to”, to be more precise according to the abstract of Yuval-Greenberg and Heeger (2013)) reducing contrast makes a stimulus invisible”, it does not necessarily mean that dichoptic masking and contrast reduction are the same process or are based on the same neuronal mechanisms. According to gain control models by Heeger and others, reducing the stimulus contrast decreases the excitatory drive, while dichoptic masking increases the normalization pool via interocular suppression, both of which lower SNR, but are two fundamentally distinct processes.

      Therefore, varying the stimulus contrast might reveal a main effect of contrast, and possibly an interaction between contrast and dichoptic masking, but it would neither prove nor disprove the main effect of dichoptic masking.

      So, while this is an incredibly impressive set of measurements that in many ways raises the bar for in vivo Ca2+ imaging in behaving macaques, there isn't anything in the results that constitutes a real theoretical advance.

      We sincerely hope that the reviewer would have a better judgment after reading our responses.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this study, Tang, Yu & colleagues investigate the impact of continuous flash suppression (CFS) on the responses of V1 neurons using 2-photon calcium imaging. The report that CFS substantially suppressed V1 orientation responses. This suppression happens in a graded fashion depending on the binocular preference of the neuron: neurons preferring the eye that was presented with the marker stimuli were most suppressed, while the neurons preferring the eye to which the grating stimuli were presented were least suppressed. The binocular neuron exhibited an intermediate level of suppression.

      Strengths:

      The imaging techniques are cutting-edge, and the imaging results are convincing and consistent across animals.

      Weaknesses:

      I am not totally convinced by the conclusions that the authors draw based on their machine learning models.

      Thanks for pointing this issue. We have used a new multi-class SVM suggested by the reviewer to reanalyze the data and found similar results, which is detailed later.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Lines 56-63: "As a result, the dichoptic CFS masking, which is cortical, could be substantially stronger than monocular masking when accounting for the pre-cortical effects of monocular masking." I don't quite understand this argument. Could you please elaborate?

      We have revised our writing to address the reviewer’s first major comment, which the current issue is related. The elaboration is highlighted in the paragraph below.

      “Two prominent fMRI studies have examined the impact of CFS on V1 activity (Watanabe et al., 2011; Yuval-Greenberg & Heeger, 2013). Watanabe et al. (2011) compared monocular CFS masking (stimulus visible) and dichoptic CFS masking (stimulus invisible), and reported that V1 BOLD responses were largely insensitive to stimulus visibility when attention was carefully controlled. However, using similar experimental design, Yuval-Greenberg and Heeger (2013) observed reduced BOLD responses in V1 under dichoptic masking, suggesting that V1 activity changed with stimulus visibility. They attributed the difference of results between two studies mainly to differences in statistical power (~250 trials per condition vs. ~90 trials per condition). Nevertheless, these studies were not designed to quantify the pure effect of CFS on stimulus-evoked V1 responses, as they contrasted monocular and dichoptic masking conditions to equate stimulus input while manipulating perceptual visibility. In contrast, original psychophysical studies (Tsuchiya & Koch, 2005; Tsuchiya, Koch, Gilroy, & Blake, 2006) demonstrated CFS masking by contrasting the visibility of the target stimulus with and without the presence of dichoptic mask. It is apparent that the pure CFS impact in above fMRI studies would be the difference of BOLD signals between binocular masking and stimulus alone conditions. In other words, the impact of CFS on V1 activity should be larger than what has been reported by Yuval-Greenberg and Heeger (2013).” (lines 55-71)

      (2) Line 13 low-level stimulus (properties).

      Fixed, thanks.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Major comments:

      (1) My main comment is regarding the SVM classifiers. The pair-wise (adjacent orientation pairs) decoding approach is unrealistic in my opinion and likely explains the very high accuracies that are reported. I believe that a multi-way classification approach - Linear Discriminant Analysis, Decision Trees, etc. - is needed to draw reasonable conclusions. Even SVMs can be adapted for multi-way classification (e.g., Allwein et al., 2000, J. Machine Learning Research).

      Following the reviewer’s advice, we reanalyzed the data using a multi-class SVM with a one-vs-one (OvO) scheme to classify 12 orientations (Allwein et al., 2000), which yielded similar results.

      “For orientation classification, we trained an all-pair multiclass support vector machine (SVM) classifier to discriminate 12 orientations based on trial-by-trial population neural responses from all trials (Allwein, Schapire, & Singer, 2000). Decoders for different FOVs, ipsilateral/contralateral target presentations, and baseline vs. CFS conditions were trained separately. Under the baseline condition, the decoders achieved mean classification accuracies of 89.5 ± 2.0% and 91.5 ± 2.1% across ipsilateral and contralateral eye conditions in Monkeys A and B, respectively, in contrast to a chance level of 8.3% (1 out of 12). Under CFS, decoding accuracy slightly decreased in Monkey A (81.7 ± 1.9%) but remained stable in Monkey B (90.4 ± 2.1%, Fig. 3A). These results suggest that under CFS, there is still sufficient information for coarse orientation discrimination, even for Monkey A whose V1 neuronal responses were substantially suppressed.” (lines 171-181)

      (2) The inconsistent modeling results (Figure 3E,F) are puzzling and need to be adequately addressed.

      SSIM and orientation error in original Fig. 3E, F measured the same reconstruction quality, but these two indices go in opposite directions for the same modeling results. To avoid confusion, we have removed the orientation error metric and now only report SSIM.

      “We used a structural similarity index (SSIM) (Brunet, Vrscay, & Wang, 2012) to quantify the reconstruction performances. Across the grating-presenting ipsilateral and contralateral eyes, the baseline models reconstructed the grating with median SSIMs of 0.52 and 0.61 for the two FOVs of Monkey A, and 0.57 and 0.63 for the two FOVs of Monkey B, respectively, while the corresponding SSIMs for the CFS models were 0.16 and 0.19 for Monkey A, and 0.55 and 0.53 for Monkey B (Fig. 3E).” (lines 200-206)

      Minor points:

      (1) The phrase "perceptual consequences" in the title is somewhat strong and possibly misleading, since there are no behavioral measures in this study.

      To address this concern from this reviewer and reviewer 1, we now focus on the impact of CSF on population orientation coding rather than perceptual consequences, which is more appropriate describing our modeling results. For example, we changed the title to: “Continuous flashing suppression of neural responses and population orientation coding in macaque V1“. Other changes are also made throughout the manuscript accordingly.

      (2) Figure 4: Panel "F" is not marked in the figure.

      Fixed, thanks.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the current reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      This study by Li and colleagues examines how defensive responses to visual threats during foraging are modulated by both reward level and social hierarchy. Using a naturalistic paradigm, the authors test how the availability of water or sucrose, with sucrose being more rewarding than water, shapes escape behavior in mice exposed to looming stimuli of different intensities, which are used to probe perceived threat level and defensive responses. In parallel, the study compares dominant and subordinate animals to assess how social rank biases the trade off between reward seeking and threat avoidance. By combining detailed behavioral analyses with computational modeling, the work addresses how reward level and social context jointly influence escape decisions in an ethologically relevant setting.

      Across the different experimental conditions, perceived threat level is the main determinant of behavior. The authors show that looming stimuli associated with higher threat (contrast) consistently elicit faster and more robust escape responses than lower threat stimuli. This effect is particularly evident during early exposures, when animals are highly vigilant and have not yet habituated to the looming stimulus (learned that it is not dangerous). Later they described that as animals gain experience and habituate, behavior becomes more flexible, and reward level begins to exert a graded modulation of the escape response. Importantly, the authors show that under high threat conditions increasing reward value leads to more frequent and faster escape rather than greater reward pursuit. This finding is particularly relevant, as it suggests that highly valued rewards can heighten vigilance and thereby enhance responsiveness to threat, highlighting that reward does not simply compete with defensive behavior but can also reshape it depending on the perceived level of danger, in contrast to low threat conditions, where threat can be more easily outweighed by reward. Thus, an important conceptual contribution of the study is the introduction of vigilance as a useful framework to interpret these effects. Vigilance is treated as a behavioral state reflecting heightened attention to potential danger. In line with what is known from natural foraging, mice initially maintain high vigilance when confronted with an innate threat. This perspective helps clarify a finding that might otherwise appear counterintuitive. One might expect higher rewards to motivate animals to tolerate risk, explore more, and habituate faster in any scenario. Instead, the data suggest that highly rewarding outcomes can elevate vigilance, making animals more responsive to threat and leading to faster or more frequent escape under high threat conditions. In this sense, reward does not simply compete with threat but can also amplify sensitivity to it, depending on the internal state of the animal.

      The social results are particularly interesting in this context as well. Dominant mice consistently prioritize avoidance over reward, showing stronger escape responses and slower habituation than subordinates. This behavior is well captured by the vigilance framework proposed by the authors: dominant animals appear to maintain higher vigilance, which biases decisions toward threat avoidance. The authors further suggest that stable social relationships sustain high vigilance and slow habituation, framing this as an evolutionarily conserved strategy that may enhance survival. This interpretation provides a valuable perspective on how social structure shapes defensive behavior beyond immediate physical interactions. At the same time, there are important limitations to this interpretation. All experiments were conducted in male mice, and it is possible that the relationship between social hierarchy, vigilance, and defensive behavior would differ substantially in females. In addition, the idea that stable social relationships maintain elevated vigilance does not straightforwardly align with broader views of social stability as protective for mental health and as a buffer against anxiety and stress. These points do not undermine the findings but suggest that the social effects described here should be interpreted with caution and within the specific context of the task and sex studied.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. In the context of repeated looming exposure, slower habituation reflects more sustained vigilance over time. Compared to individually housed mice, group-housed mice exhibit slower habituation (Lenz et al., 2022), and pair-housed mice showed even slower habituation in our current work. Importantly, this pattern does not indicate that pair-housed mice have higher overall vigilance than individually housed animals. Although individually housed mice habituate more quickly, they display higher initial vigilance, as reflected by their increased probability of escaping in response to looming stimuli (Lenz et al., 2022). Thus, pair-housed mice exhibited reduced defensive responses compared to individually housed animals, consistent with a social buffering effect.

      Furthermore, in a separate study (Rank- and Threat-Dependent Social Modulation of Innate Defensive Behaviors; Li, Gao, Li, 2026, eLife 15:RP109571), we directly compared responses to looming stimuli when mice were tested alone versus in the presence of a social partner and observed clear evidence of social buffering.

      Another important limitation is that the neural mechanisms underlying these effects remain speculative. The manuscript includes an extensive discussion of candidate circuits, particularly involving the superior colliculus and downstream structures, but this section is necessarily based on prior literature rather than on data presented in the study. Given the complexity of the circuits involved in integrating internal state, reward, social context, and vigilance, the current work should be viewed as providing a strong behavioral and conceptual framework rather than direct insight into underlying neural mechanisms.

      We fully agree that the proposed neural mechanisms remain speculative and that the circuits involved in integrating internal state, reward, and social context are likely far more complex. We have revised the manuscript to acknowledge this limitation.

      Methodologically, the behavioral paradigm is well suited for studying escape decisions in socially housed animals, and the machine learning based classification of defensive responses is a clear strength. The computational model provides a useful formalization of how threat level, reward level, and vigilance interact and may be valuable for other laboratories studying escape, approach avoidance, or conflict situations, particularly as a way to classify behavioral outcomes after pose estimation. More generally, the work will be of interest to the neuroethology community for its detailed characterization of escape behavior under naturalistic conditions.

      Given the ethological nature of the study and the high inter individual variability reported by the authors, clarity and precision in the methods are especially important for reproducibility. While the revised manuscript addresses many earlier concerns, some aspects remain slightly difficult to follow. For example, the main text states that animals were not water deprived to avoid differences in internal state, whereas parts of the methods describe conditions in which animals were water deprived, suggesting that internal state manipulation may differ across experiments. Clearer separation and explanation of these conditions would further strengthen confidence in the work.

      To improve clarity, we have revised the Methods section to clearly distinguish between experimental conditions that involved water deprivation and those that did not.

      Overall, this study provides a rich and thoughtful analysis of how reward level and social hierarchy modulate defensive behavior through changes in vigilance. It offers a useful conceptual advance for thinking about escape behavior in naturalistic settings and lays a solid foundation for future work aimed at linking these behavioral states to underlying neural circuits.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Zhe Li and colleagues investigate how mice exposed to visual threats and rewards balance their decisions in favour of consuming rewards or engaging in defensive actions. By varying threat intensity and reward value, they first confirm previous findings showing that defensive responses increase with threat intensity and that there is habituation to the threat stimulus. They then find that water-deprived mice have a reduced probability of escaping from low contrast visual looming stimuli when water or sucrose are offered in the environment, but that when the stimulus contrast is high, the presence of sucrose or water increases the probability of escape. By analysing behaviour metrics such as the latency to flee from the threat stimulus, they suggest that this increase in threat sensitivity is due to increased vigilance. Analysis of this behaviour as a function of social hierarchy shows that dominant mice have higher threat sensitivity, which is also interpreted as being due to increased vigilance. These results are captured by a drift diffusion model variant that incorporates threat intensity and reward value.

      The main contribution of this work is quantifying how the presence of water or sucrose in water-deprived mice affects escape behaviour. The differential effects of reward between the low and high contrast conditions are intriguing, but I find the interpretation that vigilance plays a major in this process not supported by the data. The idea that reward value exerts some form of graded modulation of the escape response is also not supported by the data. In addition, there is very limited methodological information, which makes assessing the quality of some of the analyses difficult, and there is no quantification on the quality of the model fits.

      (1) The main measure of vigilance in this work is reaction time. While reaction time can indeed be affected by vigilance, reaction times can vary as a function of many variables, and be different for the same level of vigilance. For example, a primate performing the random dot motion task exhibits differences in reaction times that can be explained entirely by the stimulus strength. Reaction time is therefore not a sound measure of vigilance, and if a goal of this work is to investigate this parameter, then it should be measured. There is some attempt at doing this for a subset of the data in Figure 3H, by looking at differences in the action of monitoring the visual field (presumably a rearing motion, though this is not described) between the first and second trials in the presence of sucrose. I find this an extremely contrived measure. What is the rationale for analysing only the difference between the first and second trials? Also, the results are only statistically significant because the first trial in the sucrose condition happens to have zero up action bouts, in contrast to all other conditions. I am afraid that the statistics are not solid here. When analysing the effects of dominance, a vigilance metric is the time spent in the reward zone. Why is this a measure of vigilance? More generally, measuring vigilance of threats in mice requires monitoring the position of the eyes, which previous work has shown is biased to the upper visual field, consistent with the threat ecology of rodents.

      We agree that reaction time can be influenced by multiple factors, including stimulus strength. Consistent with this, reaction times (i.e. latencies to flee) were substantially shorter under high-contrast conditions (Figure 3E). However, even under the same high-contrast condition, reaction times were significantly shorter in the water condition compared to the no-reward condition, suggesting that other factors such as vigilance may contribute.

      Upward-directed attention includes rearing, up-stretching, and upward head orientation, which will be clarified in the Method section. To address concerns about statistical validity, we will quantify these behaviors across the first 10 trials rather than limiting the analysis to the first two.

      As for the dominance-related results, we interpret them as reflecting both enhanced vigilance and reduced reward-seeking behavior. Time spent in the reward zone is not a measure of vigilance but an indicator of reward-seeking motivation. We will clarify this in the revised manuscript.

      (2) In both low and high contrast conditions, there are differences in escape behaviour between no reward and water or sucrose presence, but no statistically significant differences between water and sucrose (eg: Figure 3B). I therefore find that statements about reward value are not supported by the data, which only show differences between the presence or absence of reward. Furthermore, there is a confound in these experiments, because according to the methods, mice in the no-reward condition were not water-deprived. It is thus possible that the differences in behaviour arise from differences in the underlying state.

      In Figure 3B, the difference between water and sucrose conditions did not reach statistical significance (p = 0.08). We plan to collect additional data to determine whether this is due to limited statistical power. It is also possible that some behavioral readouts are more sensitive to the differences between water and sucrose conditions. For example, Figure 3F shows that escape speed was significantly higher in the sucrose than in the water condition under high-contrast stimulation.

      Thank you for pointing this out. To control for the potential confounds related to internal state, mice were not water-deprived under any of the three conditions in Figures 3A-3H. We will clarify this in the main text and Methods. For Figures 3I-3M, which compare decision-making under no-reward and water conditions, we will conduct additional experiments using non-deprived mice in the water condition.

      (3) There is very little methodological information on behavioural quantification. For example, what is hiding latency? Is this the same are reaction time? Time to reach the safe zone? What exactly is distance fled? I don't understand how this can vary between 20 and 100cm. Presumably, the 20cm flights don't reach the safe place, since the threat is roughly at the same location for each trial? How is the end of a flight determined? How is duration measured in reward zone measures, e.g., from when to when? How is fleeing onset determined?

      Hiding latency was defined as the time from stimulus onset to the animal’s arrival at the safe zone. Reaction time was quantified as the latency to flee, measured from stimulus onset to the initiation of the first flight state. The flight state was defined as locomotion exceeding 10 cm at a speed greater than 10 cm/s. Distance fled was defined as the distance covered between stimulus onset and offset for all trials. However, in trials classified as no reaction or freezing, this measure does not accurately reflect escape behavior. We will therefore rename it as distance under threat to better capture its meaning. The reward zone was defined as the region within 15 cm of the reward port at the end of the arena. Duration in the reward zone was measured as the time spent within this region during the 20 seconds following stimulus onset. In Figure 4E, the percentage of time spent in the reward zone was calculated relative to the total time the mouse remained in the arena during the 2-hour social session.

      All definitions and additional details on behavioral quantification will be included in the revised Methods section.

      (4) There is little methodological information on how the model was fit (for example, it is surprising that in the no reward condition, the r parameter is exactly 0. What this constrained in any way), and none of the fit parameters have uncertainty measures so it is not possible to assess whether there are actually any differences in parameters that are statistically significant.

      We appreciate the comment and agree that further clarification is needed. We will provide a more detailed description of the model fitting procedure in the revised Methods section. Specifically, the drift rate parameter (r), which reflects the perceived reward value, was constrained to zero in the no-reward condition. To enable statistical comparison across conditions, we will report uncertainty measures for all fit parameters.

      Comments on the revised manuscript:

      The manuscript has been revised and improved significantly by the addition of methodological details and new analysis. I remain, however, unconvinced by the argument that increased vigilance in the presence of reward leads to heightened escape behaviour.

      In response to my criticism that the work does not measure vigilance directly, the authors have included measures of foraging interval and foraging speed, which they state are "two direct behavioral analyses of vigilance". I disagree - like reaction time, foraging speed and foraging interval can be modulated, for example, by changes in threat sensitivity. Increased threat sensitivity comes with diverse behavioral changes that may well include increased vigilance, but foraging interval and foraging speed can certainly change without the animal expressing increased vigilance behaviors. A bigger issue I still have though, is with the conclusion that the presence of reward increases "direct escape behaviors". Comparing the no reward, water and sucrose groups indeed shows a difference (which is now clear after the split into early and late phases), but the issue is that these are different mice. As the text is written, is sounds like introducing reward will acutely increase escape. But if we look at the raw data show in Figure 2C, what I think is happening is that the presence of reward is decreasing habituation to the stimulus. The data for trials 1 and 10 in the three conditions show this - there is habituation with no reward (reaction times are all shifting to the right), a bit less with water and very little with sucrose. This is interesting in its own right and we can speculate why it might be happening, but I think this is conceptually different from what the authors are proposing.

      We agree that vigilance is not directly observable as a single variable. Our intent was not to claim that foraging speed and foraging interval provide a direct measure of vigilance, but rather to suggest that they may serve as indirect behavioral correlates.

      We also considered an alternative interpretation: these two measures could reflect perceived reward value under high-threat conditions across distinct reward types. If that were the case, animals would be expected to exhibit shorter intervals and faster speeds across no reward, water, and sucrose conditions. However, our data do not support this interpretation (Figures 3L and 3M), suggesting that these measures are more likely correlated with vigilance. 

      Furthermore, it is unlikely that changes in foraging interval and speed are driven by altered threat sensitivity, as animals could not see the threat during most of the foraging bout and only encountered it at the end.

      Regarding the conclusion that the presence of reward increases direct escape behaviors, our interpretation is that increased reward value reduces habituation, thereby maintaining higher vigilance during the late phase. This was discussed in the second-to-last paragraph of the "Economic and social modulations of innate decision-making under threat" subsection in the Discussion.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Male mice were tested in a classic behavioral "flee the looming stimulus" paradigm. This is a purely behavioral study; no neural analyses were done. Mice were housed socially, but faced the looming stimulus individually, using an elegant automated tunnel (see videos for clarity).

      The additional changes made to the paper clarify the work done. While there are some limitations (male mice, weird stimulus), the general results are interesting and a valuable addition to the experimental literature. The main claim of the paper is that the different rewards (none, water, sucrose) did not change the escape properties early in learning, but did late, particularly that in the late (already experienced) conditions, reward value (assuming sucrose > water > no reward) interacted with the salience of the looming stimulus (light gray, dark gray). (Panels 3D, 3G, 3K, 3N).

      For readers, I want to note that one of the most interesting results is actually in Figure S2, where they find that a looming stimulus behind the mouse still makes a mouse run to the nest. In these conditions, the mouse runs past the looming stimulus to get to safety! (I also do love the video of the mouse running around the barriers like a snake to get home.)

      I have a few minor clarification questions and a few notes that I think would be useful additions for authors and readers to think about.

      Dominance: What does the mouse social science literature say about the "test tube" test? What can we conclude from this test? This would be useful when trying to understand what is causing the dominance/submissive difference in responses. Figure 4 shows that the dominant mice are more risk-averse than the submissive mice. Is "dominance" in the test-tube actually a measure of risk-seeking? Is the issue that the submissive mice don't think they can get back to the food-site easily, so they are less willing to sacrifice the current (if dangerous) foraging opportunity? Is the issue that the submissive mice can't get back to the nest? As I understand it, the nest was always available to all the mice, so I suspect inability to get to the nest is an unlikely hypotheses. Is the issue that the submissive mice also don't feel safe in the nest?

      The tube test is a widely used assay in the rodent social behavior literature to assess dominance hierarchies, operationally defined by the ability of one animal to force its opponent to retreat from a narrow tube. Importantly, this assay does not directly measure risk-seeking or anxiety-related traits, but rather competitive outcomes during social conflict. Furthermore, our data indicate that the behavioral responses of subordinate mice to looming stimuli are primarily driven by the visual threat itself rather than by social avoidance. This point was elaborated in the second paragraph of the “Social modulation of innate decision-making” subsection in the Results section.

      Limitations of the study: There is an acknowledged limitation to male mice, and the limitations of the small data sets that are typical of such experiments. In addition, however, it is also worth noting the strangeness of the looming stimulus, which is revealed clearly in the videos. The stimulus is a repeating growing circle, growing in a single location within the environment. The stimulus repeats 10 times, once per second. This is not what an attacking hawk or owl would look like. (I now have this image of an owl diving down, and then teleporting up and diving down again.) Note - I am fine with this stimulus. It produces an interesting experiment and interesting results. I do not think the authors need to change anything in their paper, but readers need to recognize that this is not a "looming predator".

      These "limitations" are better seen as "caveats" when folding these results in with the rest of the literature that has gone before and the literature to come. (Generally, I do not believe that science works by studies making discoveries that change how we think about problems - instead, science works by studies adding to the literature that we integrate in with the rest of the literature.) Thus, these caveats should not be taken as problems with the study or as fixes that need to be done. Instead, they are notes for future researchers to notice if differences are found in any future studies.

      Thus, my only suggestion is that I think authors could write a more careful paper by using the past and subjunctive tense appropriately. Experimental observations should be in past tense, as in "the influence of reward was context-dependent and emerged in the late phase" instead of "the influence of reward is context-dependent and emerges in the late phase" - it emerged in the late phase this once - it might not in future experiments, not due to any fault in this experiment nor due to replicability problems, but rather due to unexpected differences between this and those future experiments. At which point, it will be up to those future experiments to determine the difference. Similarly, large conclusions should be in the subjunctive tense, as in "these data suggest that threat intensity is likely to be the primary determinant of decision making" rather than "threat intensity is the primary determinant of decision making", because those are hypotheses not facts.

      We thank the reviewer for the helpful suggestions and have revised the Abstract accordingly.


      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study investigates how mice make defensive decisions when exposed to visual threats and how those decisions are influenced by reward value and social hierarchy. Using a naturalistic foraging setup and looming stimuli, the authors show that higher threat leads to faster escape, while lower threat allows mice to weigh reward value. Dominant mice behave more cautiously, showing higher vigilance. The behavioral findings are further supported by a computational model aimed at capturing how different factors shape decisions.

      Strengths:

      (1) The behavioral paradigm is well-designed and ethologically relevant, capturing instinctive responses in a controlled setting.

      (2) The paper addresses an important question: how defensive behaviors are influenced by social and value-based factors.

      (3) The classification of behavioral responses using machine learning is a solid methodological choice that improves reproducibility.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Key parts of the methods are hard to follow, especially how trials are selected and whether learning across trials is fully controlled for. For example, it is unclear whether animals are in the nest during the looming stimulus presentations. The main text and methods should clarify whether multiple mice are in the nest simultaneously and whether only one mouse is in the arena during looming exposure. From the description, it seems that all mice may be freely exploring during some phases, but only one is allowed in the arena at a time during stimulus presentation. This point is important for understanding the social context and potential interactions, and should be clearly explained in both the main text and methods.

      We agree that these details are essential and have clarified them in the Methods. When the door system operated normally, only one mouse was allowed in the arena during looming exposure. Specifically, when all mice were in the nest, the nest-tunnel door was open and the tunnel-arena door was closed. Once a single mouse entered the tunnel, as detected by an OpenMV camera, the nest-tunnel door closed and the tunnel-arena opened, ensuring that only that mouse could enter the arena.

      Habituation was conducted over two days. On day 1, five mice were placed together in the nest for 30 minutes with all doors closed. Each mouse was then placed individually in the nest and allowed to freely explore the arena for 10 minutes under normal door operation. Finally, all mice were returned to the nest with all doors open and allowed for free exploration for 2 hours. On day 2, each mouse was placed individually in the nest and given an additional 1 hour of exploration under normal door operation.

      (2) It is often unclear whether the data shown (especially in the main summary figures) come from the first trial or are averages across several exposures. When is the cut-off for trials of each animal? How do we know how many trial presentations were considered, and how learning at different rates between individuals is taken into account when plotting all animals together? This is important because the looming stimulus is learned to be harmless very quickly, so the trial number strongly affects interpretation.

      We observed substantial inter-individual variability in habituation to looming stimuli, with a sharp decline in defensive responses over the first few trials followed by more gradual changes. To account for this, we segmented trials for each animal into two phases: an early rapidhabituation phase and a later stable phase. Analyzing these phases separately revealed that threat intensity dominates behavior in the early phase, whereas both threat and reward significantly influence behavior in the late phase. These results are now presented in revised Figures 2 and 3. Analyses restricted to first trials are included in Figure S5.

      (3) The reward-related effects are difficult to interpret without a clearer separation of learning vs first responses.

      As noted above, we have re-analyzed our data to account for learning effects.

      (4) The model reproduces observed patterns but adds limited explanatory or predictive power. It does not integrate major findings like social hierarchy. Its impact would be greatly improved if the authors used it to predict outcomes under novel or intermediate conditions.

      We have substantially revised the modeling analysis. The model is now fitted to behavioral data from the late phase and used to predict outcomes across additional conditions, including the early phase behavior and rank-dependent behavioral differences. The model successfully captures behavioral patterns across these conditions, supporting its predictive value beyond descriptive fitting.

      (5) Some conclusions (e.g., about vigilance increasing with reward) are counterintuitive and need stronger support or alternative explanations. Regarding the interpretation of social differences in area coverage, it's also possible that the observed behavioral differences reflect access to the nesting space. Dominant mice may control the nest, forcing subordinates to remain in the open arena even during or after looming stimuli. In this case, subordinates may be choosing between the threat of the dominant mouse and the external visual threat. The current data do not distinguish between these possibilities, and the authors do not provide evidence to support one interpretation over the other. Including this alternative explanation or providing data that addresses it would strengthen the conclusions.

      To support the interpretation of increased vigilance with reward under high-threat conditions, we analyzed additional behavioral measures beyond latency to flee. Rewarded mice showed longer foraging interval and slower foraging speed, both consistent with elevated vigilance (Figures 3L and 3M).

      To address the alternative explanation that subordinate mice may remain in the arena due to restricted nest access, we compared arena occupancy before, during, and after looming exposure. Although subordinates spent more time in the arena before looming, this difference disappeared during and after looming exposure (Figures 4C). Moreover, dominant and subordinate mice were

      equally likely to flee to the nest during escape trials. These findings rule out nest access restrictions as an explanation for the observed rank-dependent differences in defensive behaviors.

      (6) While potential neural circuits are mentioned in the discussion, an earlier introduction of candidate brain regions and their relevance to threat and value processing would help ground the study in existing systems neuroscience.

      We have revised the Introduction to incorporate relevant brain regions and neural circuits.

      (7) Some figures are difficult to interpret without clearer trial/mouse labeling, and a few claims in the text are stronger than what the data fully support. Figure 3H is done for low contrast, but the interesting findings will be to do this experiment with high contrast. Figure 4H - I don't understand this part. If the amount of time in the center after the loom changes for subordinate mice, how does this lead to the conclusion that they spend most of their time in the reward zone?. Figure 3A - The example shown does not seem representative of the claim that high contrast stimuli are more likely to trigger escape. In particular, the 10% sucrose condition appears to show more arena visits under low contrast than high contrast, which seems to contradict that interpretation. Also, the plot currently uses trials on the Y-axis, but it would be more informative to show one line per animal, using only the first trial for each. This would help separate initial threat responses from learning effects and clarify individual variability.

      We have substantially revised the figures. Results from trial segmentation based on individual habituation are now explicitly presented in Figures 2 and 3, and analyses using only the first trials are provided in Figure S5 to separate initial responses from learning effects.

      Regarding the original Figure 4H, we are not entirely certain about the concern. In this panel, we measured time spent in the reward zone, which is defined as the region within 10 cm of the reward port at the end of the arena, not the center of the arena, during looming exposure. Subordinate mice spent significantly more time in the reward zone than dominant mice. We have further clarified this in the revised manuscript.

      (8) The analysis does not explore individual variability in behavior, which could be an important source of structure in the data. Without this, it is difficult to know whether social hierarchy alone explains behavioral differences or if other stable traits (e.g., anxiety level, prior experiences) also contribute.

      We observed substantial individual variability in both dominant and subordinate mice, even on the first trial (Figure S7). Paired dominant–subordinate comparisons were used to isolate rankdependent effects.

      (9) The study shows robust looming responses in group-housed animals, which contrasts with other studies that often require single housing to elicit reliable defensive responses. It would be valuable for the authors to discuss why their results differ in this regard and whether housing conditions might interact with social rank or habituation.

      Robust looming-evoked defensive responses have been reported in both group- and singlehoused mice (Yilmaz and Meister, 2013, Lenzi et al., 2022), although single-housed mice habituate more rapidly. We have now discussed the potential interactions between housing conditions, social rank, and habituation in defensive behaviors in the revised manuscript.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Zhe Li and colleagues investigate how mice exposed to visual threats and rewards balance their decisions in favour of consuming rewards or engaging in defensive actions. By varying threat intensity and reward value, they first confirm previous findings showing that defensive responses increase with threat intensity and that there is habituation to the threat stimulus. They then find that water-deprived mice have a reduced probability of escaping from low contrast visual looming stimuli when water or sucrose are offered in the environment, but that when the stimulus contrast is high, the presence of sucrose or water increases the probability of escape. By analysing behaviour metrics such as the latency to flee from the threat stimulus, they suggest that this increase in threat sensitivity is due to increased vigilance. Analysis of this behaviour as a function of social hierarchy shows that dominant mice have higher threat sensitivity, which is also interpreted as being due to increased vigilance. These results are captured by a drift diffusion model variant that incorporates threat intensity and reward value.

      The main contribution of this work is to quantify how the presence of water or sucrose in waterdeprived mice affects escape behaviour. The differential effects of reward between the low and high contrast conditions are intriguing, but I find the interpretation that vigilance plays a major role in this process is not supported by the data. The idea that reward value exerts some form of graded modulation of the escape response is also not supported by the data. In addition, there is very limited methodological information, which makes assessing the quality of some of the analyses difficult, and there is no quantification of the quality of the model fits.

      (1) The main measure of vigilance in this work is reaction time. While reaction time can indeed be affected by vigilance, reaction times can vary as a function of many variables, and be different for the same level of vigilance. For example, a primate performing the random dot motion task exhibits differences in reaction times that can be explained entirely by the stimulus strength. Reaction time is therefore not a sound measure of vigilance, and if a goal of this work is to investigate this parameter, then it should be measured. There is some attempt at doing this for a subset of the data in Figure 3H, by looking at differences in the action of monitoring the visual field (presumably a rearing motion, though this is not described) between the first and second trials in the presence of sucrose. I find this an extremely contrived measure. What is the rationale for analysing only the difference between the first and second trials? Also, the results are only statistically significant because the first trial in the sucrose condition happens to have zero up action bouts, in contrast to all other conditions. I am afraid that the statistics are not solid here. When analysing the effects of dominance, a vigilance metric is the time spent in the reward zone. Why is this a measure of vigilance? More generally, measuring vigilance of threats in mice requires monitoring the position of the eyes, which previous work has shown is biased to the upper visual field, consistent with the threat ecology of rodents.

      We agree that reaction time can be influenced by multiple factors, including stimulus strength. Consistent with this, reaction times (i.e. latencies to flee) were substantially shorter under highcontrast conditions. However, even under the same high-contrast condition, reaction times were significantly shorter in the reward conditions compared to the no-reward condition, suggesting that other factors such as vigilance may contribute.

      Regarding the measurement of vigilance, in addition to the latency to flee, we analyzed two additional behavioral measures related to vigilance. First, we examined the foraging interval. Our hypothesis was that more vigilant animals would wait longer before re-entering the reward zone following threat exposure. Consistent with this prediction, mice under sucrose and water reward conditions showed significantly longer foraging intervals than those under no-reward conditions (Figure 3L). Second, we analyzed the foraging speed as mice approached the reward. Increased vigilance should lead to more cautious and therefore slower movements. Our results support this, as mice moved more slowly towards the reward under sucrose conditions (Figure 3M). Taken together, these three measures consistently indicate that mice exhibit increased vigilance under sucrose reward in high-threat conditions.

      (2) In both low and high contrast conditions, there are differences in escape behaviour between no reward and water or sucrose presence, but no statistically significant differences between water and sucrose (eg, Figure 3B). I therefore find that statements about reward value are not supported by the data, which only show differences between the presence or absence of reward. Furthermore, there is a confound in these experiments, because according to the methods, mice in the no-reward condition were not water deprived. It is thus possible that the differences in behaviour arise from differences in the underlying state.

      Our new analysis, which segments behavior into an early adaptive phase and a late stable phase, reveals a statistically significant difference between water and sucrose rewards in the late phase (Figure 3H), supporting a graded effect of reward value.

      To control for the potential confounds related to internal state, mice were not water-deprived in all reward conditions. We have clarified this in the revised manuscript.

      (3) There is very little methodological information on behavioural quantification. For example, what is hiding latency? Is this the same are reaction time? Time to reach the safe zone? What exactly is distance fled? I don't understand how this can vary between 20 and 100cm. Presumably, the 20cm flights don't reach the safe place, since the threat is roughly at the same location for each trial? How is the end of a flight determined? How is duration measured in reward zone measures, e.g., from when to when? How is fleeing onset determined?

      Hiding latency was defined as the time from stimulus onset to the animal’s arrival at the safe zone. Reaction time was quantified as the latency to flee, measured from stimulus onset to the initiation of the first flight state. The flight state was defined as locomotion exceeding 10 cm at a speed greater than 10 cm/s. Distance fled was defined as the distance covered between stimulus onset and offset for all trials. However, in trials classified as no reaction or freezing, this measure does not accurately reflect escape behavior. We will therefore rename it as distance under threat to better capture its meaning. The reward zone was defined as the region within 10 cm of the reward port at the end of the arena. Duration in the reward zone was measured as the time spent within this region during the 20 seconds following stimulus onset. In Figure 4E, the percentage of time spent in the reward zone was calculated relative to the total time the mouse remained in the arena during the 2-hour social session.

      All definitions and additional details on behavioral quantification have been included in the revised Methods section.

      (4) There is little methodological information on how the model was fit (for example, it is surprising that in the no reward condition, the r parameter is exactly 0. What this constrained in any way), and none of the fit parameters have uncertainty measures so it is not possible to assess whether there are actually any differences in parameters that are statistically significant.

      We have provided a detailed description of the model fitting procedure in the revised Methods section. Specifically, the reward-value parameter (r) was constrained to zero in the no-reward condition. We have plotted how the overall loss varies with differeent parameters (Figure S9).

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Male mice were tested in a classic behavioral "flee the looming stimulus" paradigm. This is a purely behavioral study; no neural analyses were done. Mice were housed socially, but faced the looming stimulus individually. Drift-diffusion modeling found that reward-level interacted with threat level such that at low-threat levels, reward contrasted with threat as classically expected (high reward overwhelms low threat, low threat overwhelms low reward), but that reward aligned with threat at higher threat levels.

      Note that they define threat level by the darkness of the looming stimulus. I am not sure that darker stimuli are more threatening to mice. But maybe. Figure 3 shows that mice react more quickly to high contrast looming stimuli, but can the authors distinguish between the ability to detect the visual signal from considering it a more dangerous threat? (The fact that vigilance makes a difference in the high contrast condition, not the low contrast condition, actually supports the author's hypotheses here.)

      Regarding the interpretation of stimulus contrast as a proxy for threat level, we agree it is crucial to distinguish improved detection from heightened threat perception. To address this, we examined not only latency to flee but also escape distance and peak escape speed, two measures that reflect the intensity of the defensive response. If contrast only influenced detection, we would expect differences in latency but not in escape distance or speed. All three measures differed significantly across contrast conditions, supporting the interpretation that high-contrast stimuli are perceived as more threatening rather than simply more detectable. Furthermore, manual review of "no response" trials confirmed reliable detection in both conditions, with only three potential "missed" trials out of 117 under low contrast (Figure S3B). We have included this discussion in the revised manuscript.

      The drift-diffusion model (DDM) is fine. I note that the authors included a "leakage rate", which is not a standard DDM parameter (although I like including it). I would have liked to see more about the parameters. What were the distributions? What did the parameters correlate with behaviorally? I would have liked to see distributions of the parameters under the different conditions and different animals. Figure 2C shows the progression of learning. How do the fit parameters change over time as mice shift from choice to choice? How do the parameters change over mice? How do the parameters change over distance to the threat/distance to safety (as per Fanselow and Lester 1988)? They did a supplemental experiment where the threat arrived halfway along the corridor - we could get a lot more detail about that experiment - how did it change the modeling?

      Because our model is fit to the variance of latency distributions, it cannot be applied to singletrial data. Instead, we analyzed how decisions and latencies vary as functions of the fitted threat gain and reward value parameters (Figures 5G and 5H). We have also introduced a simplified deterministic model to further elucidate the decision-making process.

      Regarding the influence of distance to the threat, we conducted additional experiments, presenting the looming stimulus at the end of the arena when the mouse was at different distances from it (Figures S2C–G). We found that as the prey-threat distance increased, mice showed less direct escape behavior, with longer latencies to flee and slower escape speeds. This is consistent with the predatory imminence continuum theory (Fanselow and Lester, 1988), which describes graded defensive behaviors tuned to perceived threat level.

      Regarding the influence of distance to safety, our data indicate that it did not significantly affect defensive responses (Figures S2H and S2I). To test this further, we introduced barriers that lengthened the return path to the safe zone. We found that defensive decisions were not correlated with the distance to the safe zone (Figures S2J and S2K), suggesting that once a threat is detected, animals prioritize escape initiation over evaluating the exact path to safety.

      Overall, this is a reasonable study showing mostly unsurprising results. I think the authors could do more to connect the vigilance question to their results (which seems somewhat new to me).

      We have expanded our analysis of vigilance. In addition to escape latency, we examined the foraging interval and foraging speed. We hypothesized that more vigilant animals would wait longer before re-entering the reward zone following a threat and would approach the reward more slowly. Consistent with this prediction, mice in the sucrose- and water-reward conditions exhibited significantly longer foraging intervals and slower foraging speeds compared to those in the no-reward condition (Figures 3M and 3N). Together, these three measures consistently demonstrate that mice display heightened vigilance under high-threat, high-reward conditions.

      Although the data appear generally fine and the modeling reasonable, the authors do not do the necessary work to set themselves within the extensive literature on decision-making in mice retreating from threats.

      First of all, this is not a new paradigm; variants of this paradigm have been used since at least the 1980s. There is an *extensive* literature on this, including extensive theoretical work on the relation of fear and other motivational factors. I recommend starting with the classic Fanselow and Lester 1988 paper (which they cite, but only in passing), and the reviews by Dean Mobbs and Jeansok Kim, and by Denis Paré and Greg Quirk, which have explicit theoretical proposals that the authors can compare their results to. I would also recommend that the authors look into the "active avoidance" literature. Moreover, to talk about a mouse running from a looming stimulus without addressing the other "flee the predator" tasks is to miss a huge space for understanding their results. Again, I would start with the reviews above, but also strongly urge the authors to look at the Robogator task (work by June-Seek Choi and Jeansok Kim, work by Denis Paré, and others).

      Similarly, in their anatomical review, they do not mention the amygdala. Given the extensive literature on the role of the amygdala in retreating from danger, both in terms of active avoidance and in terms of encoding the danger itself, it would surprise me greatly if this behavior does not involve amygdala processing. (If there is evidence that the amygdala does not play a role here, but that the superior colliculus does, then that would be a *very* important result that needs to be folded into our understanding of decision-making systems and neural computational processing.)

      Second, there is an extensive economic literature on non-human animals in general and on rodents in particular. Again, the authors seem unaware of this work, which would provide them with important data and theories to broaden the impact of their results (by placing them within the literature). First, there are explicit economic literatures in terms of positively-valenced conflicts (e.g., neuroeconomics within the primate literature, sequential foraging and delaydiscounting tasks within the rodent literature), but also there is a long history within the rodent conditioning world, such as the classic work by Len Green and Peter Shizgal. I would strongly urge the authors to explore the motivational conflict literature by people like Gavin McNally, Greg Quirk, and Mark Andermann. Again, putting their results into this literature will increase the impact of their experiment and modeling.

      We have substantially revised the manuscript to contextualize our findings within the extensive literature on defensive behavior and decision-making. The revised Introduction and Discussion now integrate key theoretical frameworks, such as the predatory imminence continuum, and cite relevant work on active avoidance and other "flee the predator" paradigms (e.g., the Robogator task).

      We have also incorporated perspectives from neuroeconomics and motivational conflict, including literature on sequential foraging, delay-discounting tasks, and relevant rodent studies. Furthermore, we now discuss the potential contributions of specific brain regions, including the superior colliculus and the amygdala, to the economic and social modulation of innate defensive decisions in response to visual threats.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewing Editor Comments:

      These additional recommendations are generally consistent and overlapping across reviewers, particularly Reviewer #1 and 2, so it is advisable to undertake these changes/additions.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Experimental methods and trial structure need clarification: It is often unclear how many trials were included per condition, per mouse, and whether the key behavioral effects (especially reward-related changes) were observed early in the session or after repeated stimulus exposure. For example, in several reward-related plots (e.g., Figure 3), it is not specified whether results are driven by early or later trials. Since the authors themselves report rapid learning of the looming stimulus (habituation), it is critical to state how many trials were included in each comparison, and to analyze whether effects hold on the first exposure and not the rest. Otherwise, conclusions about value-based behavior are hard to separate from learning effects, which may also differ between individuals. Specifically, the methods section is vague and hard to follow.

      We have substantially expanded the Methods section with additional details to improve clarity.

      To account for individual variability in habituation to the looming stimulus, we segmented trials for each animal into early and late phases. We demonstrate that threat level is the dominant factor driving behavioral responses in the early phase, while both threat level and reward condition shape behavior in the late phase. We have substantially revised Figures 2 and 3 to reflect these changes.

      (2) Add a summary of experimental design: A table or schematic summarizing the trial structure, experimental groups, reward/threat conditions, and the timeline of exposures would greatly improve clarity.

      We have added a schematic to Figure 2 summarizing the trial structure, experimental groups, reward and threat conditions, and the overall timeline.

      (3) Replot key results using only the first trial per mouse: This would allow readers to assess the first (not learned) responses and help control for habituation/suppression.

      We have replotted behavioral results using only the first trial from each mouse and included these analyses in Figure S5. These results confirm that threat level is the dominant factor driving the initial response to looming stimuli.

      (4) The model needs stronger justification and predictive value: As it stands, the model primarily fits the existing data and does not offer new insights beyond what is already evident from the behavioral results.

      Important findings, such as social hierarchy effects and habituation dynamics, are not captured in the model, reducing its relevance to the full dataset.

      The drift-diffusion framework is widely used, and in this implementation appears to have been adjusted post hoc to fit the observed data rather than generating new conceptual advances. No comparison with simpler models is included. Without testing simpler or alternative models, it is not clear whether the added complexity is necessary or justified.

      Use the model to generate and test predictions: to increase the model's contribution, the authors could simulate new conditions. Suggested experiments include:

      a) Predicting escape probability and latency at intermediate threat intensities to test whether behavior shifts gradually or abruptly.

      b) Using the model's habituation parameters to predict changes in escape behavior over repeated exposures.

      c) Adjusting vigilance or threat gain parameters to simulate dominant versus subordinate animals, and comparing model predictions to actual behavioral differences based on social rank.

      We have substantially revised the modeling section to address these concerns. The updated model is now fitted to behavioral data from the late phase of the reward–threat experiments and used to generate predictions for the early phase and for rank-dependent behavioral differences.

      The model accurately captures behavioral patterns across these conditions, demonstrating predictive power beyond descriptive fitting. Accordingly, we have removed the habituation component. Furthermore, we have introduced a simplified deterministic model in the revised manuscript to further understand the decision-making process.

      (5) Clarify housing and arena access conditions: It is unclear from the text whether all mice are in the nest during looming presentations and whether only one mouse is in the arena during the stimulus. This is important for understanding the social context of each trial and should be explained in the main text and methods.

      We have clarified this point in the Methods section. Under normal door operation, only one mouse was allowed in the arena during looming exposure. Specifically, when all mice were in the nest, the nest-tunnel door was open and the tunnel-arena door was closed. Once a single mouse entered the tunnel, as detected by an OpenMV camera, the nest-tunnel door closed and the tunnel-arena opened, ensuring that only that mouse could enter the arena.

      (6) Alternative interpretation of subordinate behavior: differences in area coverage and time in the reward zone may not reflect reduced vigilance, but rather avoidance of dominant mice. Subordinates may remain in the open arena to avoid conflict. The authors do not provide evidence distinguishing between these interpretations, and this should be addressed.

      To address the alternative explanation that subordinate mice may remain in the arena due to restricted nest access, we compared arena occupancy before, during, and after looming exposure (Figure 4C). Before looming exposure, subordinate mice spent significantly more time in the arena, consistent with the idea that they may perceive a social threat from the dominant mouse in the absence of any external threat. However, this difference disappeared during and after looming exposure. This shift suggests that the presence of an external threat alters the social dynamic, reducing the influence of dominance on nest access.

      To further assess whether dominant mice blocked subordinate access to the nest during threatdriven escapes, we analyzed the fraction of escape trials in which mice returned to the nest (Figure 4D). We found no significant difference between dominant and subordinate mice, indicating that dominant mice did not restrict nest access during these trials. Importantly, rank differences in reward-zone occupancy cannot be explained by nest exclusion, as mice do not need to return to the nest when escaping the threat—they can flee directly to the safe zone. Thus, nest access limitations do not account for the observed rank-dependent patterns.

      We agree with the reviewer that reward-zone occupancy should not be interpreted as reduced vigilance in subordinate mice; instead, it likely reflects higher perceived reward value. The manuscript has been revised accordingly.

      (7) Address why robust looming responses were observed in group-housed mice: previous studies often require single housing to elicit strong defensive responses. The authors should explain why their setup yields robust results in group-housed animals and whether housing conditions may interact with dominance or habituation.

      Looming exposure elicits robust defensive behaviors in both group- and single-housed mice (Yilmaz and Meister, 2013, Lenzi et al., 2022), with single-housed animals habituating more quickly to the stimulus (Lenzi et al., 2022). We have now discussed how housing conditions may interact with social rank and habituation to shape defensive behaviors in the revised manuscript.

      For the social-rank experiments, we intentionally co-housed dominant and subordinate mice to maintain a stable hierarchy. This choice was motivated by two considerations. First, our goal was to investigate how social rank modulates defensive responses under ethologically relevant conditions, where mice naturally live in groups. Single housing would remove this social context. Second, singly housing mice can destabilize or eliminate rank relationships, making it difficult to interpret rank-dependent behavioral differences.

      (8) Add analysis of individual variability: trial-by-trial variability or stable behavioral tendencies in individual animals are not explored. This could explain part of the variation currently attributed to social rank.

      We have analyzed individual variability in both dominant and subordinate mice. We observed substantial variability across all behavioral measurements for each group (Figure S7). To attribute the observed behavioral differences to social hierarchy rather than to other individual traits, we conducted paired comparisons between dominant and subordinate mice (Figure 4).

      (9)  Improve figure labeling and readability: some plots are ambiguous in terms of whether rows represent trials or animals. Overlapping points obscure the data in several figures, for example, Figure 3H, sucrose is n=4?- consider using jittered scatter plots, boxplots, or individual traces to improve clarity. Also same Figure axis Y is missing an 'e'.

      We have revised figures to improve clarity and corrected the typos.

      (10) Avoid overinterpretation of causal explanations: Statements such as "reward increases vigilance due to evolutionary pressure" or that "subordinates are less vigilant" go beyond what the current data can demonstrate and should be rephrased more cautiously.

      We have revised the manuscript to tone down the statement.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Provide much more extensive methodological details on analyses and model fitting

      We have thoroughly revised the Methods section to provide extensive detail on both behavioral analyses and computational modeling, as outlined in our responses to points (3) and (4) of the Public Review.

      (2) Perform experiments or analyses that directly measure vigilance, if vigilance is to remain as a key explanation for the data.

      As detailed in our response to point (1) of the Public Review, we have supplemented the escape latency measure with two direct behavioral analyses of vigilance: foraging interval and foraging speed. This multi-metric approach robustly supports the interpretation of heightened vigilance.

      (3) Provide extra evidence for an effect of reward value, as opposed to the presence or absence of reward. Control for differences arising from the water deprivation state by performing the no reward condition experiments in water-deprived mice.

      All behavioral data in the reward–threat experiment were collected on normal (non-deprived) mice (Figures 2 and 3), which have been clarified in the revised manuscript. We have reanalyzed the data by segmenting trials into early and late phases for each animal. In the late phase, under low-threat conditions, the effect of reward value is reflected in significant differences between water and sucrose in terms of escape distance and time spent in the reward zone (Figures 3I and 3J). Under high-threat conditions, the reward value effect is reflected in significant differences in latency to flee and peak escape speed (Figures 3K and 3N).

      (4)  Using drift rate to describe the "r" variable is confusing because the drift rate of the drift diffusion process is also determined by terms alpha, beta, and h-terms.

      We have termed “r” as the reward value in the revised manuscript.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) I would tone down some of the extreme statements about the problems of previous experiments (such as that most decision-making is on 2AFC). Lots of people do decision-making in serial foraging, fleeing, and other behavioral tasks. The classic Morris water-maze or Barnesmaze are decision-making tasks that aren't 2AFC. Serial foraging tasks, such as the Restaurant Row task aren't 2AFC. And, actually, lots of mouse behavior tasks are deciding when to stop on a treadmill for a reward. And, for that matter, your task isn't all that "realistic" - mice aren't evolved to flee looming disks, they are evolved to flee hawks and owls. This doesn't invalidate your task at all. I just recommend making it about your work in a positive way rather than others in a negative way.

      We have revised the manuscript to adopt a more positive framing of our work.

      (2) I also don't think there's much use in bringing in crayfish in a mouse task. Spend your time connecting to the other rodent data (mice and rats) instead.

      We agree and have revised the manuscript accordingly, focusing our discussion on relevant rodent literature to provide a more appropriate context for our findings.

      Minor concerns:

      (1) The authors use the term "cognitive control" without making clear what they mean. In general, the authors seem to have a view on decision-making as either being "reflexes" or "cognitive control". This is a very outdated perspective. Modern perspectives include multiple decision-making systems competing, separating these based on their computational properties, such as planning, procedural, instinctual, and, yes, reflexive. Current views on the kinds of behaviors they are discussing generally see fleeing as a transition from reflexive (tonic immobility, freezing) and instinctual responses (freezing, fleeing) to deliberative (anxiety) and procedural (habit). The authors might take a look at the recent Calvin and Redish (2025) paper for some ideas on this.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s insight regarding the term “cognitive control.” In our study, we used this term to emphasize that defensive responses to looming threats are not purely reflexive. Mice exhibit four distinct types of defensive decisions within a short time window, and these decisions are systematically modulated by reward value and social rank. Notably, reward modulation is bidirectional: high reward suppresses defensive responses under low-threat conditions but enhances them under high-threat conditions, indicating that animals integrate multiple sources of information rather than relying solely on instinctive mechanisms.

      We did not observe mid-trajectory aborts in mice, as reported in rats by Calvin & Redish (2025). This difference may reflect species-specific behavior or the nature of the threat: our looming stimulus is purely visual and non-harmful, whereas the robotic predator in their study presents a physical threat. We have revised the Discussion to clarify our use of “cognitive control” and to incorporate these perspectives.

      (2) Only male mice were used. This limits the conclusions that can be drawn.

      We acknowledge the limitation of using only male mice and have discussed this limitation in the revised manuscript.

      (3) Did the authors observe darting behavior? (Gruene...Shansky 2015).

      We did not observe darting behavior, characterized by rapid movement, as reported during inescapable fear conditioning. In our experiment, the mice consistently escaped towards the nest, in most trials, ran directly to the nest without stopping. Occasionally, under low contrast conditions, mice paused once or twice but never moved towards the reward.

      (4) How was only one mouse allowed into the linear arena at a time?

      When all mice were in the nest, the nest-tunnel door was open while the tunnel-arena door remained closed. When a single mouse entered the tunnel, as detected by the RFID and OpenMV camera system, the nest-tunnel door closed and the tunnel-arena door opened, allowing only that mouse to enter the arena. We have clarified this protocol in the Methods section.

      (5) I would like to see more extensive analyses of the animal's responses as a function of distance to the threat (as per Fanselow and Lester 1988).

      As detailed in our response to the public review, we conducted new experiments analyzing behavior as a function of prey–threat distance. The finding that defensive responsiveness decreases with increasing prey–threat distance is now presented in Figures S2C–G and discussed in the context of the predatory imminence continuum.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      In this manuscript, the authors report that GPR55 activation in presynaptic terminals of Purkinje cells decrease GABA release at the PC-DCN synapse. The authors use an impressive array of techniques (including highly challenging presynaptic recordings) to show that GPR55 activation reduces the readily releasable pool of vesicle without affecting presynaptic AP waveform and presynaptic Ca<sup>2+</sup> influx. This is an interesting study, which is seemingly well-executed and proposes a novel mechanism for the control of neurotransmitter release. However, the authors' main conclusions are heavily, if not solely, based on pharmacological agents that most often than not demonstrate affinity at multiple targets. Below are points that the authors should consider in a revised version.

      We are happy to hear the encouraging comments from this reviewer, and thank for pointing out the important issues including the previous study design depending only on pharmacological agents. To address these, we have performed additional experiments, as detailed below.

      Major points:

      (1) There is no clear evidence that GPR55 is specifically expressed in presynaptic terminals at the PC-DCN synapse. The authors cited Ryberg 2007 and Wu 2013 in the introduction, mentioning that GPR55 is potentially expressed in PCs. Ryberg (2007) offers no such evidence, and the expression in PC suggested by Wu (2013) does not necessarily correlate with presynaptic expression. The authors should perform additional experiments to demonstrate the presynaptic expression of GPR55 at PC-DCN synapse.

      We completely agree with the reviewer in that our previous manuscript lacked the reliable information regarding presynaptic expression of GPR55 at PC boutons.

      To clarify the localization, we first tried immunostaining of GPR55 using commercially available antibodies, but unfortunately they did not provide clear labeling of neurons and also even in GPR55-transfected HEK cells (used as positive control). Thus, we gave up the direct immunostaining. Alternatively, we attempted to label PC axonal boutons by GPR55-targeting dye together with a complementary strategy based on gene knock-down. Specifically, we used T1117, a fluorescent derivative of AM251 which is a GPR55 ligand used in the manuscript, and clear fluorescent signals were evident at GFP-labeled PC terminals. Still, by itself it was not clear whether the labeling was mediated by association with GPR55. Therefore, we also attempted to specifically suppress gene expression of GPR55 using CRISPR/Cas9-mediated genome editing in PCs, based on acute DNA micro-injection of plasmids into nuclei of PCs to express gRNAs targeting GPR55 together with Cas9. As a result, 5 days after the knock-down, T1117 labeling at axon terminals was reduced by ~50% compared to Cas9-alone controls. All these data are now shown in new Figure 2, and explained in the text p5-6, lines 141-159. Further, the reduction of GPR55 expression abolished the AM251-mediated reduction of vesicular exocytosis, as shown in new Figure 3D, E.

      Taken together, these results essentially convince our main conclusions by strongly suggesting that GPR55 is present at PC axon terminals, where it negatively regulates the exocytosis upon activation by AM251.  

      (2) The authors' conclusions rest heavily on pharmacological experiments, with compounds that are sometimes not selective for single targets. Genetic deletion of GPR55 would be a more appropriate control. The authors should also expand their experiments with occlusion experiments, showing if the effects of LPI are absent after AM251 or O-1602 treatment. In addition, the authors may want to consider AM281 as a CB1R antagonist without reported effects at GPR55.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out these important issues. First, as noted above to confirm the presence of GPR55 at axon terminals of PCs, we performed genetic deletion of GPR55 using CRISPR/Cas9 system. In PCs co-expressing Cas9 and two gRNAs targeting the ligand-binding domain of GPR55, AM251 failed to suppress the exocytosis at PC boutons, together with decreased T1117 labeling. Therefore, the idea that GPR55 negatively regulates transmitter release at PC boutons has now been strengthened. The new data is shown in Figure 3D and E, and explained in the text p6, lines 173-178.  

      As suggested, we also carried out the occlusion experiments with LPI and AM251. First, LPI similarly reduced the readily releasable pool (RRP) size as AM251 did. Then, applied together, LPI and AM251 did not further reduce the RRP size compared with the effect by either compound alone. Thus, LPI and AM251 seem to act through the same pathway, consistent with the idea for role of GPR55 activation. The data is shown in new Figure 5—figure supplement 1 and explained in the text, p7-8, lines 215-221.

      Regarding another point suggested by the reviewer, we applied AM281 and observed no effect on transmission at the PC–target neuron synapses (shown in new Figure 1F and I; explained in the text p5, lines 117-123), indicating that the effect of AM251 is likely to be mediated by GPR55, but not by CB1R.

      Taken together, our additional experiments based on genetic and pharmacological experiments have consolidated our conclusion that GPR55 suppresses the presynaptic neurotransmitter release in PC boutons.

      (3) It is not clear how long the different drugs were applied, and at what time the recordings were performed during or following drug application. It appears that GPR55 agonists can have transient effects (Sylantyev, 2013; Rosenberg, 2023), possibly due to receptor internalization. The timeline of drug application should be reported, where IPSC amplitude is shown as a function of time and drug application windows are illustrated.

      Thank you for suggesting the better presentation of data. Accordingly, we have re-organized figures showing time course of changes in IPSCs before and after the drug application (new Figure 1 and 4; p4, lines 94-97; p5, lines 110-115; p7, lines 193-197). The current data presentation clearly shows that the effect of AM251 becomes evident in a few minutes after application, and somehow reaches a saturated level.

      (4) A previous investigation on the role of GPR55 in the control of neurotransmitter release is not cited nor discussed (Sylantyev et al., (2013, PNAS, Cannabinoid- and lysophosphatidylinositolsensitive receptor GPR55 boosts neurotransmitter release at central synapses). Similarities and differences should be discussed.

      We are really sorry for failing to adequately discuss this important work in our previous manuscript, and deeply appreciate the reviewer for pointing this out. We have now cited and discussed the work by Sylantyev et al. (2013), in the text (p12, lines 380-389), as following:

      ‘Pioneering studies clarified an important role of GPR55 in synaptic transmission at hippocampal excitatory synapses, demonstrating presynaptic enhancement of glutamate release presumably by elevating the cytoplasmic residual Ca<sup>2+</sup> via release from intracellular stores (Sylantyev et al., 2013; Rosenberg et al., 2023), in contrast to the suppression of release in our observation. The lack of positive modulation of AP-triggered release through residual Ca<sup>2+</sup> in PC terminals might be due to abundant amount of potent Ca<sup>2+</sup> buffer calbindin (Fierro and Llano, 1996). Indeed, increased vesicular fusion only for the AP-insensitive spontaneous vesicular release (as mIPSCs) was observed upon the IP<sub>3</sub>-mediated Ca<sup>2+</sup> release from internal store (Gomez et al., 2020). Thus, minimal sensitivity of AP-triggered release to residual Ca<sup>2+</sup> in PC boutons would underlie the distinct effects of GPR55 activation at the presynaptic side.’  

      Minor point:

      (1) What is the source of LPI? What isoform was used? The multiple isoforms of LPI have different affinities for GPR55.

      Thank you for letting us know about the lack of important information in the previous manuscript. In our experiments, we used a soybean-derived LPI mixture containing approximately 58% C16:0 and 42% C18:0 or C18:2 species. According to Brenneman et al. (2025), these isoforms show moderate or strong effects in cultured DRG neurons, whereas the C20:4 isoform, reported to promote neuroinflammatory signaling, was contained only at very low levels. We have added this information to the revised manuscript and briefly discussed the influence of different LPI isoforms on the physiological outcomes of GPR55 activation (p5, lines 127-131; p15, lines 493-496).

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This paper investigates the mode of action of GPR55, a relatively understudied type of cannabinoid receptor, in presynaptic terminals of Purkinje cells. The authors use demanding techniques of patch clamp recording of the terminals, sometimes coupled with another recording of the postsynaptic cell. They find a lower release probability of synaptic vesicles after activation of GPR55 receptors, while presynaptic voltage-dependent calcium currents are unaffected. They propose that the size of a specific pool of synaptic vesicles supplying release sites is decreased upon activation of GPR55 receptors.

      Strengths:

      The paper uses cutting-edge techniques to shed light on a little-studied, potentially important type of cannabinoid receptor. The results are clearly presented, and the conclusions are for the most part sound.

      We feel very happy to see the positive comments from the reviewer.  

      Weaknesses:

      The nature of the vesicular pool that is modified following activation of GPR55 is not definitively characterized.

      We agree with the reviewer in that our data cannot fully address the changes of vesicle pools caused by GPR55. As detailed in responses to comments in ‘Recommendations for the authors’ from the reviewer, we have added explanation and discussion in the main text of the revised manuscript.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Inoshita and Kawaguchi investigated the effects of GPR55 activation on synaptic transmission in vitro. To address this question, they performed direct patch-clamp recordings from axon terminals of cerebellar Purkinje cells and fluorescent imaging of vesicular exocytosis utilizing synaptopHluorin. They found that exogenous activation of GPR55 suppresses GABA release at Purkinje cell to deep cerebellar nuclei (PC-DCN) synapses by reducing the readily releasable pool (RRP) of vesicles. This mechanism may also operate at other synapses.

      Strengths:

      The main strength of this study lies in combining patch-clamp recordings from axon terminals with imaging of presynaptic vesicular exocytosis to reveal a novel mechanism by which activation of GPR55 suppresses inhibitory synaptic strength. The results strongly suggest that GPR55 activation reduces the RRP size without altering presynaptic calcium influx.

      We thank the reviewer for giving the encouraging comments on our study.

      Weaknesses:

      The study relies on the exogenous application of GPR55 agonists. It remains unclear whether endogenous ligands released due to physiological or pathological activities would have similar effects. There is no information regarding the time course of the agonist-induced suppression. There is also little evidence that GPR55 is expressed in Purkinje cells. This study would benefit from using GPR55 knockout (KO) mice. The downstream mechanism by which GPR55 mediates the suppression of GABA release remains unknown.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out all of these important issues to be ideally addressed. As detailed in the responses to comments in the ‘Recommendations for the authors’ from the reviewers, we have addressed most of these weak points, and also added careful discussion in the text about the open questions to be solved in the future study.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      This is a high-quality paper that reports novel and interesting results. The authors should consider one main critique, related to Figure 6, as well as a number of minor points.

      We thank the reviewer for making very positive assessment of our study. We have carefully considered the main critique regarding presynaptic vesicle pools (related to previous Figure 6), as well as other points, and accordingly revised manuscript.

      Main critique:

      In Figure 6, it is said that GPR55 locks SVs in a state that is insensitive to VGCCs, based on a series of experiments with synapto-pHluorin. This conclusion is open to several critiques:

      The authors' model is shown in the diagram of Figure 6A. In this scheme, it appears as if recycled SVs eventually re-acidify in spite of the presence of bafilomycin, and that they are directed to a location close to the plasma membrane, but away from VGCCs. In fact, there is no evidence that the effects of bafilomycin could be limited in time. And there is a lot of evidence indicating that recycled SVs move back to release sites, close to VGCCs.

      We are so sorry for presenting misleading figure panel in the previous Figure 6A. As the reviewer says, the effect of bafilomycin should be expected to last for long, and then the endocytosed vesicles cannot be re-acidified. Now, in new Figure 8A, we have changed the panel for explanation about the experimental situation of vesicles in the presence of bafilomycin. Another insightful point, kindly suggested by the reviewer, regarding the quick recruitment of newly endocytosed vesicles to release sites, is highly related to the interpretation of our data, but is a different issue from the situation explained in new Figure 8A. To avoid confusion, the arrow drawn in the previous version indicating the endocytosed vesicle movement back to the docked situation has been omitted in the new panel, and this critical issue is now carefully discussed in terms of the mechanism of GPR55 action on the release machinery (p15, lines 480-482).

      The saturation of the train-induced signals is interpreted as reflecting an exhaustion of SVs initially close to VGCCs or more generally, susceptible to being released following VGCC activation.

      In an alternative scenario, saturation occurs because AP trains, or KCl applications, become unable to activate VGCCs. This could occur either because long illumination causes photodamage of VGCCs, or because repeated activation of VGCCs leads to their inactivation. The latter explanation is possible in spite of a publication from the authors' laboratory describing the facilitation of presynaptic VGCCs following paired stimulations in this synapse (Diaz-Rojas et al., 2015).

      We agree that it is an important control experiment to demonstrate that Ca<sup>2+</sup> increase upon repetitive AP trains is intact even during or after the long photo-illumination for imaging. To test this possibility, we have performed additional fluorescent Ca<sup>2+</sup> imaging at PC varicosities during individual 400-AP trains and also in response to 50 mM KCl following the series of AP trains. Now new data demonstrated that Ca<sup>2+</sup> influx remains constant across all AP trains (shown in Figure 8— figure supplement 1), arguing against VGCC inactivation or photodamage as a major factor underlying the saturated signal increase in the synapto-pHluorin. We have added explanation regarding this issue in the text p11, lines 327-329.

      The authors explain the larger effect of ionomycin compared with AP trains and KCl applications as reflecting a better capacity to increase the bulk calcium concentration. The above proposal for the inactivation of VGCCs offers an alternative explanation, in my view more likely.

      As noted above, our newly added Ca<sup>2+</sup> imaging data clearly showed that individual AP trains induced similar Ca<sup>2+</sup> influxes during repetitive trials, in line with our original interpretation. In addition, the Ca<sup>2+</sup> increase by KCl was shown to be more potent and broader in axon terminals and trunks. Nevertheless, the exocytic signal caused by ionomycin was clearly large, implying a critical effect of the source of Ca<sup>2+</sup> influx in PC boutons. Therefore, we suppose that the marked effect of ionomycin on release reflects higher elevation of bulk Ca<sup>2+</sup> in the cytoplasm arising from non-site selective Ca<sup>2+</sup>-ionophore (Figure 8—figure supplement 1, p11, lines 327-334; lines 342-349).

      In yet another scenario, recycled SVs in bafilomycin retain their fluorescence since they do not reacidify, but they come back to release sites to undergo new rounds of exocytosis. The new exocytosis events do not increase the fluorescence since the pH in the vicinity of synapto-pHluorin does not change. NH4Cl would then increase the fluorescence by revealing SVs that had not undergone exocytosis-endocytosis cycles during AP trains or KCl exposure. In this last scenario, the GPR55-sensitive SV pool would be a specific sub-pool of SVs that can be recycled by repetitive 400 AP trains.

      We deeply appreciate the reviewer for pointing out this important possibility. We completely agree that this scenario can also explain the pool which is sensitive to GPR55. Therefore, we have added explanation of this possibility in the text (p15, lines 474–482).

      Figure 6F shows calcium imaging measurements of PC varicosities. Unfortunately, crucial measurements are missing. It would have been revealing to compare calcium rises for the first and the last of the 8 400-AP trains. And to compare calcium rises elicited by 60 mM KCl before and after the series of 8 400-AP trains.

      This is an important control experiment. Therefore, we have performed additional Ca<sup>2+</sup> imaging during the eight 400-AP trains and KCl application. The new results shown in the present Figure 8—figure supplement 1 clearly suggest that Ca<sup>2+</sup> rises are comparable between the first and eighth trains, and that additional Ca<sup>2+</sup> influx (which was large in amplitude and wide in area) could still be evoked by KCl after the eight trains. The experiments are explained in the text p11, lines 327336.

      Minor points:

      (1) Introduction: The Introduction would benefit from a more substantial description of what is known about GPR55 and downstream signaling pathways. Right now, it is stated that GPR55 is 'potentially expressed in PCs': What are the arguments behind this statement? Also, the signaling pathway is discussed on p.12, much too late in the ms. Why not move this section to the Introduction?

      We thank the reviewer for the helpful suggestion. As recommended, in the revised manuscript, we have changed the Introduction by moving the sentences from other sections, including speculation about the expression of GPR55 in Purkinje cells (Ryberg et al., 2007; Wu et al., 2013) (p3-4, lines 71-75) and downstream signaling pathways (Gα<sub>q</sub>/PLC/IP<sub>3</sub>/Ca<sup>2+</sup> and Gα<sub>13</sub>/RhoA/ROCK) (p3, 63-68).  

      (2) Legend to Figures 1, 2, and 4: What is the EGTA concentration in these experiments?

      As suggested, the EGTA concentrations (0.5 or 5 mM) used in the individual experiments have now been clearly indicated both in the figure legends and in the Methods section (p18, lines 585586).

      (3) Fig. 3C: These experiments show that some SV pool is depleted by AM251. The authors state that this is the RRP, but other options are possible. In the calyx of Held, similar experiments are supposed to deplete not only the FRP (=RRP, presumably) but also the SRP.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out the important aspect related to category for vesicle pools. In PC boutons, the membrane capacitance increases in response to different duration of depolarization pulses in a manner fitted by a single exponential curve (see Figure 5C for example). Our previous study (Kawaguchi and Sakaba, 2015) noted that the vesicle pools corresponding to FRP and SRP may not be easy to distinguish in PCs, suggesting apparently single component. That’s the reason why we simply describe the component as RRP in the present manuscript. Still, as suggested, careful discussion about typical fast- and slow components would be helpful to interpret our present findings. Therefore in the revised manuscript, we have added a sentence to explain this issue (p7, lines 211-214).

      (4) p. 8: When the 400 APs protocol is introduced, the corresponding frequency (20 Hz?) should be mentioned. This information comes only much later in the ms.

      We are sorry for our insufficient explanation in the previous manuscript. As suggested, we have clearly written the stimulation frequency ‘20 Hz’ in the main text where the 400 APs protocol first appears (p9, lines 277-278).

      (5) Figure 5, panels B and F: synapto-pHluorin is labelled twice 'synapto-pHluolin'.

      Sorry for careless typos. Now, those are corrected (new Figure 7).

      (6) Legend to Figure 5, last line: 'x' is missing in the last equation.

      Thank you for the careful and kind check. Now, ‘x’ has been added to the last equation in the legend for new Figure 7.

      (7) p. 7, Interpretation of EGTA effects: The authors frame their interpretation of EGTA effects around the distance between release sites and VGCCs. However since AM251 appears to alter the recruitment of SVs, a more parsimonious interpretation would be that EGTA modifies the calciumdependent movement of SVs towards release sites.

      Thank you for suggesting an insightful scenario. We agree that the capacitance jump upon long depolarization pulse would include exocytosis of substantial amount of vesicles which are newly recruited during the Ca<sup>2+</sup> increase. Then, as the reviewer states, EGTA possibly lowers the Ca<sup>2+</sup>dependent replenishment of synaptic vesicles, and this replenishment system might be the target of GPR55 activation. Therefore, we have now clearly added an explanation about this possibility in the text (p15, lines 474-482).

      (8) p. 13, Interpretation of GPR55 sensitive SV pool: The authors suggest a larger distance to VGCCs for this pool compared to naïve SVs. An alternative could be that in the presence of GPR55, the recruitment to release sites would be less efficient.

      This is also an insightful suggestion to speculate the causal relationship between the GPR55mediated reduction of vesicular release and the vesicle pools. Accordingly, we have revised the Discussion (see “Dynamics of synaptic vesicles among distinct functional pools”) by clearly telling about the possibility of decreased recruitment of vesicles to release sites after the GPR55 activation (p15, lines 474-482). By totally considering all the suggested scenario, we believe that the possible mechanisms for GPR55-mediated reduction of release are much more clearly explained in the revised manuscript.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) The time course of the agonist-induced suppression should be reported (Figure 1).

      This is an important point to show data clearly, as suggested also by the reviewer 1. Accordingly, we have changed the figure panels to show time courses of agonist-induced suppression (shown in new Figures 1 and 4).  

      (2) Show that the suppression of GABAergic transmission mediated by AM251 and LPI is eliminated in GPR55 KO mice.

      We appreciate the reviewer for putting us to try this important experiment. Owing to the suggestion, we attempted to knock-down the GPR55 expression using CRISPR/Cas9 in cultured Purkinje cells. To avoid potential developmental compensations, here we adopted the CRISPR/Cas9-based genome editing approach, rather than using global knock out mice. Those GPR55-KO cells, as noted above in response to the comment #2 of reviewer #1, showed decreased fluorescent labeling of PC axon terminals to fluorescent-variant of AM251 (shown in new Figure 2) and abolishment of AM251-mediated suppression of vesicle exocytosis (Figure 3D and E). These results are explained in the text p5-6, lines 141-159; p6, lines 173-178.  

      (3) Include references supporting AM251 and LPI as GPR55 agonists and specify the E50 concentrations for each agonist. Furthermore, provide details about the GPR55 antagonist CID16600046.

      As suggested, we have added references regarding GPR55 agonists, AM251 and LPI. In the text, the following information was added: AM251, originally characterized as an inverse agonist for CB1, has also been reported to act as a GPR55 agonist (Ryberg et al., 2007; Henstridge et al., 2009) (p5, lines 115-116). LPI is an established endogenous GPR55 agonist (Oka et al., 2007; Henstridge et al., 2009) (p5, lines 127-129). The reported EC<sub>50</sub> values are ~ 30 nM for LPI (Oka et al., 2007, HEK cell assay) and 39 nM for AM251 (Ryberg et al., 2007, HEK cell assay) (p4, lines 94-95; p5, lines 127-129). Regarding the GPR55 antagonist CID16020046, detailed information (IC<sub>50</sub> = 0.21 µM for GPR55 without significant effect on CB1 receptor) was added in the text with an appropriate citation (Kargl et al., 2013) (p5, lines 123-127). These points have also been added to the Methods section (p17, lines 587-589).

      (4) Regarding the onset delay (Figure 4C; page 8, lines 3-4), consider the following: "AM251 induced a modest yet significant synaptic delay, estimated by the time to the onset of release" (or something similar).

      We thank the reviewer for suggesting helpful explanation. Accordingly, we have changed the sentence to explain the delayed onset (p9, lines 264-265).

      These three points should be properly acknowledged in the Discussion:

      (1) Are action potentials (APs)/depolarizations and ionomycin applications comparable? Ionomycin mediates a large calcium rise significantly slower than the calcium rise mediated by fast depolarization. Such presynaptic calcium dynamics could account, in part, for the different results.

      The qualitative difference of Ca<sup>2+</sup> increase between APs/depolarization-mediated ones and ionomycin-mediated one is an important point. Thank you for pointing out this issue. In the revised manuscript, we have added an explanation about the possible difference arising from the distinct dynamics of Ca<sup>2+</sup> increases caused by direct depolarization of axon terminals or by ionomycin (p14, lines 452-453).

      (2) Previous studies on hippocampal CA3-CA1 pyramidal cell synapses indicate that GPR55 activation enhances glutamate release through presynaptic calcium modulation while diminishing inhibitory postsynaptic strength by reducing GABAA receptors (Sylantyev et al., PNAS 2013; Rosenberg et al., Neuron 2023). In contrast, Inoshita and Kawaguchi discovered that GPR35 suppresses PC-DCN inhibitory transmission by decreasing GABA release without affecting inhibitory postsynaptic strength. Some potential explanation for this discrepancy is warranted.

      We appreciate the reviewer for pointing out this important issue, and feel sorry for not providing an appropriate discussion about the possible interpretation in the previous manuscript. In the revised manuscript, we have added explanations for this discrepancy. First, PC terminals show only limited influence by elevated cytoplasmic Ca<sup>2+</sup> through ER store on GABA release (Gomez et al., 2020) probably due to abundant calbindin. Second, our present data clearly show the GPR55 signals at PC terminals (although indirect, see Figure 2), while hippocampal inhibitory neuronal boutons somehow showed lower GPR55 levels compared with excitatory neuronal boutons (Rosenberg et al., Neuron, 2023). Third, the subtypes and/or anchoring mechanism for postsynaptic GABA<sub>A</sub> receptors might be different between two distinct postsynaptic neurons in the hippocampus and the cerebellum. These factors are now clearly discussed in the text (p12, lines 380-396).

      (3) Earlier work has suggested that CB1 receptor activation can alter the release machinery. Therefore, the observation that GPR55 activation induces changes in the RRP is not entirely surprising.

      As pointed out, previous studies showed that CB1R influences the synaptic release machinery, rather than Ca<sup>2+</sup> influx (Ramirez-Franco et al., 2014). In that context, as the reviewer says, the GPR55-mediated RRP change can be regarded as a similar synaptic modulation mechanism as the CB1-mediated one. However, considering the different downstream signaling pathways, G<sub>12/13</sub>- or G<sub>q</sub>-mediated one and G<sub>i/o</sub>-mediated one, our findings would provide an important scope about the regulation mechanisms of release machinery, which should be further analyzed in the future study. Now we have added these points in discussion (p13-14, lines 435-439).

      (4) Add a section about the limitations of this study (see Weaknesses above).

      As suggested, we have added a section about the limitations of this study at present, which we could not address in the revision and should be addressed in the future (p15, lines 488-508). Particularly, the actual endogenous agonist to activate GPR55, and the physiological situation in which the agonist is produced, much more direct evidence for GPR55 presence at PC boutons, and the downstream mechanisms of GPR55-mediated suppression of GABA release are now clearly notified in that section.

      (5) Double-check grammar and typos ("anandamid").

      We are really sorry for the poor writings in the previous manuscript. Now, we have carefully checked the text.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The "number sense" refers to an imprecise and noisy representation of number. Many researchers propose that the number sense confers a fixed (exogenous) subjective representation of number that adheres to scalar variability, whereby the variance of the representation of number is linear in the number.

      This manuscript investigates whether the representation of number is fixed, as usually assumed in the literature, or whether it is endogenous. The two dimensions on which the authors investigate this endogeneity are the subject's prior beliefs about stimuli values and the task objective. Using two experimental tasks, the authors collect data that are shown to violate scalar variability and are instead consistent with a model of optimal encoding and decoding, where the encoding phase depends endogenously on prior and task objectives. I believe the paper asks a critically important question. The literature in cognitive science, psychology, and increasingly in economics, has provided growing empirical evidence of decisionmaking consistent with efficient coding. However, the precise model mechanics can differ substantially across studies. This point was made forcefully in a paper by Ma and Woodford (2020, Behavioral & Brain Sciences), who argue that different researchers make different assumptions about the objective function and resource constraints across efficient coding models, leading to a proliferation of different models with ad-hoc assumptions. Thus, the possibility that optimal coding depends endogenously on the prior and the objective of the task, opens the door to a more parsimonious framework in which assumptions of the model can be constrained by environmental features. Along these lines, one of the authors' conclusions is that the degree of variability in subjective responses increases sublinearly in the width of the prior. And importantly, the degree of this sublinearity differs across the two tasks, in a manner that is consistent with a unified efficient coding model.

      We thank Reviewer #1 for her/his comments and for placing our work in a broader context.

      Comments:

      (1) Modeling and implementation of estimation task

      The biggest concern I have with the paper is about the experimental implementation and theoretical account of the estimation task. The salient features of the experimental data (Figure 1C) are that the standard deviations of subjects' estimated quantities are hump-shaped in the true stimulus x and that the standard deviation, conditional on the true stimulus x, is increasing in prior width. The authors attribute these features to a Bayesian encoding and decoding model in which the internal representation of the quantity is noisy, and the degree of noise depends on the prior - as in models of efficient coding (Wei and Stocker 2015 Nature Neuro; Bhui and Gershman 2018 Psych Review; Hahn and Wei 2024 Nature Neuro).

      The concern I have is about the final "step" in the model, where the authors assume there is an additional layer of motor noise in selecting the response. The authors posit that the subject's selection of the response is drawn from a Gaussian with a mean set to the optimally decoded estimate x*(r), and variance set to a free parameter sigma_0^2. However, the authors also assume that the Gaussian distribution is "truncated to the prior range." This truncation is a nontrivial assumption, and I believe that on its own, it can explain many features of the data.

      To see this, assume that there is no noise in the internal representation of x, there is only motor noise. This corresponds to a special case of the authors' model in which υ is set to 0. The model then reduces to a simple account in which responses are drawn from a Gaussian distribution centered at the true value of x, but with asymmetric noise due to the truncation. I simulated such a model with sigma_0=7. The resulting standard deviations of responses for each value of x (based on 1000 draws for each value of x), across the three different priors, reproduce the salient patterns of the standard deviation in Figure 1C: i) within each condition, the standard deviation is hump-shaped and peaks at x=60 and ii) conditional on x, standard deviation increases in prior width. The takeaway is that this simple model with only truncated motor noise - and without any noisy or efficient coding of internal representations - provides an alternative channel through which the prior affects behavior.

      Of course, this does not imply that subjects' coding is not described by the efficient encoding and decoding model posited by the authors. However, it does suggest an important alternative mechanism for the authors' theoretical results in the estimation task. Moreover, some of the quantitative conclusions about the differences in behavior with the discrimination task would be greatly affected by the assumption of truncated motor noise.

      Turning to the experiment, a basic question is whether such a truncation was actually implemented in the design. That is, was the range of the slider bar set to the range of the prior? (The methods section states that the size on the screen of the slider was proportional to the prior width, but it was unclear whether the bounds of the slider bar changed with the prior). If the slider bar range did depend on the prior, then it becomes difficult to interpret the data. If not, then perhaps one can perform analyses to understand how much the motor noise is responsible for the dependence of the standard deviation on both x and the prior width. Indeed, the authors emphasize that their model is best fit at α=0.48, which would seem to imply that the best fitting value of υ is strictly positive. However, it would be important to clarify whether the estimation procedure allowed for υ=0, or whether this noise parameter was constrained to be positive (i.e., clarify whether the estimation assumed noisy and efficient coding of internal representations).

      We thank Reviewer #1 for her/his close attention to the motor-noise component of our model, in particular its truncation at the border of the prior. We agree that the truncated motor noise should be examined more closely as it affects the variance of responses. We address here the questions raised by the reviewer, and we detail the new analyses we have conducted.

      First, regarding the experimental paradigm, we note that this truncation was indeed implemented in the design, i.e., the range of the slider bar corresponded to the range of the prior (we now indicate this more clearly in the manuscript). Subjects thus were not able to select an estimate that was not in the support of the prior, and it is precisely for this reason that we model the selection step with a truncated distribution, so that the model is consistent with the experimental setup. This truncation naturally decreases the response variability near the bounds, and this may affect differently the overall variability for the different priors, as noted by the reviewer in her/his simulations. We have conducted a series of analysis to investigate this question.

      First, we consider a model in which there is no cognitive noise, but only motor noise. To answer one of the reviewer’s questions, the model-fitting procedure did allow for a vanishing cognitive noise (𝜈 = 0), i.e., it allowed for such a “motor-noise-only” mechanism to be the main account of the data. This value (𝜈 = 0), however, does not maximize the likelihood of the model, and thus this hypothesis is not the best account of the data. Nevertheless, we fit a model that enforces the absence of cognitive noise (i.e., with 𝜈 = 0). The BIC of this “motor-noise-only” model is higher than that of our best-fitting model by more than 1100, indicating very strong support for the best-fitting model, which features a positive cognitive noise (𝜈 > 0), and 𝛼 = 1/2, as in our theoretical proposal.

      Furthermore, the standard deviation of responses predicted by the motor-noise-only model overestimates substantially the variability of subjects' responses in the Narrow and Medium conditions (Figure 4, panel b), while the predictions of the best-fitting model are much closer to the behavioral data (panel a). Finally, the variances predicted by this model do not increase linearly with the prior width (contrary to the behavioral data). Instead, the variance increases more between the Narrow and the Medium priors than between the Medium and the Wide priors, as the effects of the bounds attenuate with the wider prior (panel c, solid green line).

      To further this analysis we fit in addition a model with no cognitive noise (𝜈 = 0), but in which we now allow the degree of motor noise, 𝜎<sub>0</sub>, to depend on the prior. Our reasoning is that if the truncated motor noise were the sole explanation for the increase in subjects' variance with the prior width, then we would expect the noise levels for the three priors to be roughly equal. We find instead that they are different (with values of 5.9, 8.3, and 9.8, for the prior widths 20, 40, and 60, respectively, when pooling subjects; and when fitting subjects individually the distributions of parameter values exhibit a clear increase; see panels c and d above). This model moreover yields a BIC higher by more than 590 than our best-fitting model. We note in addition that these parameter values differ in such a way that they result in response variances that are a linear function of the prior width, as found in the behavioral data, although they overestimate the subjects' variances (panel c, dotted green line). This linear increase is directly predicted by our best-fitting model, which has one less parameter (2 vs. 3), and which moreover accurately predicts the variability of subjects across priors (panel c, pink line). Hence the data do not support a model with no cognitive noise and with only a constant, truncated motor noise.

      We also consider another possibility, that in addition to truncated motor noise there is in fact a degree of cognitive noise, but one that is insensitive to the width of the prior. In other words, there is cognitive imprecision, but it does not efficiently adapt to the prior range, as in our proposal. This corresponds to setting 𝛼 = 0, in our model; but this specification of the model results in a poor fit, with a BIC higher by more than 300 than that of the best-fitting model, whose cognitive noise scales with the exponent 𝛼 = 1/2, consistent with our theory. Thus our data do not support the hypothesis of a cognitive noise that does not scale with the prior range; instead, subjects' responses support a model in which the variance of the cognitive noise increases linearly with the prior range.

      We note in addition that there is inter-subject variability: different subjects have different degrees of imprecision. But if the source of the imprecision was the truncated motor noise, then different degrees of truncated noise should result in different relationships between the behavioral variance and the prior widths: subjects with smaller noise should be relatively insensitive to the width of the prior, while subjects with greater noise should be more sensitive. In that case, when fitting the subjects with the model in which the imprecision scales as a power of the width, we should expect subjects to exhibit a diversity of best-fitting parameter values 𝛼. Instead, as noted, we find that the data is best captured by a single exponent 𝛼 = 1/2, equal for all the subjects. This suggests that although the “baseline level” of the imprecision may differ per subject, the way that their imprecision increases as a function of the prior width is the same for all the subjects, a behavior that is not explained by truncated noise alone.

      Furthermore, Prat-Carrabin, Harl, and Gershman 2025 present behavioral results obtained in a similar numerosity-estimation task, with the same prior ranges, but with the experimental difference that the slider was not limited to the range of the current prior: instead it had the same width in all three conditions, and covered in all trials a range wider than that of the Wide prior (from 25 to 95). The behavioral variance observed in this study increases linearly with the prior range, as in our results. Thus we conclude that the linear increase in subjects' variability does not originate in the bounds of the experimental slider.

      Finally, Prat-Carrabin et al. 2025 presents an fMRI study involving a similar numerosityestimation experiment. This study shows that numerosity-sensitive neural populations in human parietal cortex adapt their tuning properties to the current numerical range, resulting in less precise neural encoding when the range is wider. This substantiates the notion that the degree of imprecision in cognitive noise adapts to the prior range, as in our proposal.

      Overall, we conclude that the linear increase of behavioral variability that we document originates in the endogenous adaptation, across conditions, of the amount of imprecision in the internal encoding of numerosities.

      We now include these analyses in a new section of the Methods (p. 24-27), which we summarize in the main text (p. 7-8). The Figure above is now included (as Figure 4). We also now cite the references mentioned by Reviewer #1 and which we had not already cited (Bhui and Gershman 2018 Psych Review; Hahn and Wei 2024 Nature Neuro).

      References:

      Prat-Carrabin, A., Harl, M. V., & Gershman, S. J. (2025). Fast efficient coding and sensory adaptation in gain-adaptive recurrent networks (p. 2025.07.11.664261). bioRxiv. https://doi.org/10.1101/2025.07.11.664261

      Prat-Carrabin, A., de Hollander, G., Bedi, S., Gershman, S. J., & Ruff, C. C. (2025). Distributed range adaptation in human parietal encoding of numbers (p. 2025.09.25.675916). bioRxiv. https://doi.org/10.1101/2025.09.25.675916

      (2) Differences across tasks

      A main takeaway from the paper is that optimal coding depends on the expected reward function in each task. This is the explanation for why the degree of sublinearity between standard deviation and prior width changes across the estimation and discrimination task. But besides the two different reward functions, there are also other differences across the two tasks. For example, the estimation task involves a single array of dots, whereas the discrimination task involves a pair of sequences of Arabic numerals. Related to the discussion above, in the estimation task the response scale is continuous whereas in the discrimination task, responses are binary. Is it possible that these other differences in the task could contribute to the observed different degrees of sublinearity? It is likely beyond the scope of the paper to incorporate these differences into the model, but such differences across the two tasks should be discussed as potential drivers of differences in observed behavior.

      If it becomes too difficult to interpret the data from the estimation task due to the slider bar varying with the prior range, then which of the paper's conclusions would still follow when restricting the analysis to the discrimination task?

      There are indeed several differences between the estimation and discrimination tasks that could, in principle, contribute to the quantitative differences observed between them. The fact that the estimation task requires a continuous numerical report whereas the discrimination task involves a binary choice is captured in our model by incorporating distinct loss functions for the two tasks (Eq. 4). This distinction is a key element of the theoretical framework, as it determines the optimal allocation of representational precision. We agree with Reviewer #1 that another important difference is that the estimation task involves non-symbolic dot arrays while the discrimination task uses short sequences of Arabic numerals, which could also affect performance through distinct perceptual or cognitive processes. Although we cannot exclude this possibility, it is unclear why such a difference in stimulus format would produce the specific quantitative patterns that we observe — and that are predicted by our proposal, namely, the sublinear scalings with task-dependent exponents. Each experiment, taken independently, supports the model's central prediction that the precision of internal representations scales sublinearly with the width of the prior distribution. Taken together, the two tasks show that this dependence itself varies with the observer's objective, confirming that perceptual precision is endogenously determined by both the statistical context and the task goal.

      We agree with Reviewer #1 that this point should be mentioned; we now do so in the Discussion (p. 17-18).

      (3) Placement literature

      One closely related experiment to the discrimination task in the current paper can be found in Frydman and Jin (2022 Quarterly Journal of Economics). Those authors also experimentally vary the width of a uniform prior in a discrimination task using Arabic numerals, in order to test principles of efficient coding. Consistent with the current findings, Frydman and Jin find that subjects exhibit greater precision when making judgments about numbers drawn from a narrower distribution. However, what the current manuscript does is it goes beyond Frydman and Jin by modeling and experimentally varying task objectives to understand and test the effects on optimal coding. This contribution should be highlighted and contrasted against the earlier experimental work of Frydman and Jin to better articulate the novelty of the current manuscript.

      We thank Reviewer #1 and we agree that the work of Frydman and Jin is highly relevant to our study. Instead of comparing our contributions to theirs, we have decided to have a close look at their data, in light of our theoretical proposal. This enables us to test the predictions of our theory against human choices made in a rather different decision situation than that of our discrimination task.

      Thus we looked, in their data, at the participants' probability of choosing the risky lottery instead of the certain amount, as a function of the difference between the lottery's expected value (pX) and the certain amount (C; we also added a small bias term to the certain option; such bias was not necessary with our discrimination data, presumably because of the inherent symmetry of our task).

      We find, as did Frydman and Jin, and similarly to our discrimination task, that the participants are more precise when the proposed amounts are sampled from a Narrow prior, in comparison to a Wide prior (see figure above, first panel). But we also find, as in our discrimination task, that when normalizing the value difference by the prior width participants are more sensitive to this normalized difference in the Wide condition than in the Narrow one, suggesting that their imprecision scales across conditions by a smaller factor than the prior width (last panel). And we find, consistent with our discrimination data and with our theory, that choice probabilities in the two conditions match very well when normalizing the difference by the prior width raised to the exponent 3/4 (third panel).

      Model fitting supports this observation. We fit the data to our model (described by Eq. 3), with the addition of a lapse probability and of a bias, and with different values of the exponent 𝛼. The best-fitting model is the one with 𝛼 = 3/4. Its BIC (35,419) is lower than those of the models with 𝛼 = 1, ½, and 0 (by 142, 39, and 514, respectively). It is also lower by 2.14 than a model in which 𝛼 is left as a free parameter (in which case the bestfitting 𝛼 is 0.68, a value not far from 3/4). We emphasize that these BIC values indicate that the hypotheses 𝛼 = 0 and 𝛼 =1 are clearly rejected, i.e., the participants' imprecision increases with the prior width (𝛼 > 0), but sublinearly (𝛼 < 1). In other words, the responses collected by Frydman and Jin in a risky-choice task are quantitatively consistent with our results obtained in a number-discrimination task, and they further substantiate our model of endogenous precision.

      We moreover note that their proposed model is similar to ours, in that the decision-maker is allowed to optimize a noisy encoding scheme to the prior, subject to a ‘capacity constraint’ on the number 𝑛 of encoding signals that can be obtained. Crucially, this capacity constraint is assumed to be a property of the decision-maker that does not change across priors, and thus 𝑛 is fixed across prior widths. Therefore, their model predicts that the participants' imprecision should scale linearly with the prior width (this is also what we obtain in our model if we don’t optimize a similar parameter; see the revised presentation of the model on p. 12-13). We note that when they fit this parameter, 𝑛, separately across conditions, they find that it is larger with the wider prior. This is precisely what our model of endogenous precision predicts. In turn this predicts a sublinear scaling of the imprecision, instead of the linear one that would result from a fixed 𝑛, and indeed we find a sublinear scaling in both their dataset and ours. What is more, in both datasets the sublinear scaling is best captured by the exponent 𝛼 = 3/4, as we predict.

      This analysis of another independent dataset obtained with a different experimental paradigm significantly strengthens our conclusions. Thus we added to the Results section a new subsection discussing this analysis, and the figure above now appears as Figure 3. We also mention it in the Introduction (l. 87-89) and in the Discussion (l. 556-557).

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This paper provides an ingenious experimental test of an efficient coding objective based on optimization as a task success. The key idea is that different tasks (estimation vs discrimination) will, under the proposed model, lead to a different scaling between the encoding precision and the width of the prior distribution. Empirical evidence in two tasks involving number perception supports this idea.

      Strengths:

      The paper provides an elegant test of a prediction made by a certain class of efficient coding models previously investigated theoretically by the authors.

      The results in experiments and modeling suggest that competing efficient coding models, optimizing mutual information alone, may be incomplete by missing the role of the task.

      We thank Reviewer #2 for her/his positive comments on our work.

      Weaknesses:

      The claims would be more strongly validated if data were present at more than two widths in the discrimination experiment.

      We agree that including additional prior widths would allow for a more detailed validation of the predicted scaling law, in particular in the discrimination task. Our design choices across the two experiments reflect a trade-off between the number of prior widths and the number of trials per condition. In the estimation task, we include three widths because this is necessary to identify all three parameters of the model: the variance of the motor noise , the baseline variance of internal imprecision (𝜈<sup>2</sup>), and the scaling exponent (𝛼). Extending both tasks to include additional prior widths would indeed provide a more robust test of the predicted scaling law. We now note this point in the revised Discussion (p. 17).

      A very strong prediction of the model -- which determines encoding entirely from prior and task -- is that Fisher Information is uniform throughout the range, strongly at odds with the traditional assumption of imprecision increasing with the numerosity (Weber/Fechner law). This prediction should be checked against the data collected. It may not be trivial to determine this in the Estimation experiment, but should be feasible in the Discrimination experiment in the Wide condition: Is there really no difference in discriminability at numbers close to 10 vs numbers close to 90? Figure 2 collapses over those, so it's not evident whether such a difference holds or not. I'd have loved to look into this in reviewing, but the authors have not yet made their data publicly available - I strongly encourage them to do so.

      Importantly, the inverse u-shaped pattern in Figure 1 is itself compatible with a Weber's-law-based encoding, as shown by simulation in Figure 5d in Hahn&Wei [1]. This suggests a potential competing variant account, in apparent qualitative agreement with the findings reported: the encoding is compatible with Fisher's law, and only a single scalar, the magnitude of sensory noise, is optimized for the task for the loss function (3). As this account would be substantially more in line with traditional accounts of numerosity perception - while still exhibiting taskdependence of encoding as proposed by the authors - it would be worth investigating if it can be ruled out based on the data gathered for this paper.

      References:

      [1] Hahn & Wei, A unifying theory explains seemingly contradictory biases in perceptual estimation, Nature Neuroscience 2024

      Indeed our efficient-coding model predicts that a uniform should result in a constant Fisher-information function, and we agree with Reviewer #2 that this is at odds with the common assumption that the imprecision increases with the magnitude. To investigate this possibility, we now consider, in the revised manuscript, a more general model of Gaussian encoding, in which the internal representation, 𝑟, is normally distributed around an increasing transformation of the number, 𝜇(𝑥), as

      𝑟|𝑥~𝑁(𝜇(𝑥), 𝜈<sup>2</sup>𝑤<sup>2 𝛼</sup>),

      where the encoding function, 𝜇(𝑥), can be either linear (𝜇(𝑥) = 𝑥) or logarithmic (𝜇(𝑥) = log (𝑥)). This allows us to test whether the data are better captured by a uniform Fisher information (as predicted by the linear encoding under a uniform prior) or by a compressed, Weber-like representation.

      We note, first, that in both tasks our conclusions regarding the dependence of the imprecision on the prior width remain unchanged, whether we choose the linear encoding or the logarithmic encoding. With both choice of encoding, the estimation task is best fit by a model with 𝛼 = 1/2, and the discrimination task by a model with 𝛼 = 3/4, implying a sublinear scaling of the variance with the width of the prior, in quantitative agreement with our theory.

      In the estimation task, the logarithmic encoding yields a significantly lower BIC than the linear one, by more than 380 (see Table 1). The results are less clear in the discrimination task, where the BIC with the logarithmic encoding is lower by 2.1 when pooling together the responses of all the subject, but it is larger by 2.6 when fitting each subject individually. We conduct in addition a “Bayesian model selection” procedure, to estimate the relative prevalence of each encoding among subjects. The resulting estimate of the fraction of the population that is best fit by the logarithmic encoding is 87.6% in the estimation task, and 45.9% in the discrimination task (vs. 12.4% and 54.1% for the linear encoding).

      To further investigate the behavior of subject in the Discrimination task, we look at their proportion of correct choices in the Wide and Narrow conditions, for the trials in which both averages are below the middle value of the prior, and for those in which both are above the middle value. We find no significant difference in the Narrow condition (see Figure below). In the Wide condition, the proportion of correct responses appear larger when the averages are small (with a significant difference when binning together the trials in which the absolute difference between the averages is between 4 and 12; Fisher's exact test p-value: 0.030).

      To complement this analysis, we fit a probit model with lapses, which is equivalent to our Gaussian model with linear encoding, but allowing the noise scale parameter to differ when both averages are above, or below, the middle value of the prior. We fit this model separately in each condition, only on the trials in which both averages are either above or below the middle value; and we test a more constrained model in which the scale parameter is equal for both small and large averages. In the Narrow condition, a likelihood-ratio test does not reject the null hypothesis that the scale parameter is constant (𝜒<sup>2</sup>(1) = 0.026, 𝑝 = 0.87), but in the Wide condition this hypothesis is rejected (𝜒<sup>2</sup> (1) = 7.6, 𝑝 = 0.006). In this condition the best-fitting scale parameter is 29% larger (9.4 vs. 6.3) with the large averages than with the small averages, pointing to a larger imprecision with the larger numbers.

      These results and the prevalence of the Weber/Fechner encoding prompt us to consider, in our efficient-coding model, the hypothesis that a logarithmic compression is an additional constraint on the possible encoding schemes. In our model, the internal representation (𝑟) could take any form as long as its Fisher information verified the constraint in Eq. 5 on the integral of its square-root. We now consider a strong, additional constraint: that over the support of the prior, the Fisher information of the signal must be of the form that one would obtain with a logarithmic encoding, i.e., 𝐼(𝑥) ∝ 1/𝑥<sup>2</sup>. (For the sake of generality we choose this specification instead of directly assuming a logarithmic encoding, because other types of encoding schemes yield a Fisher information of this form, e.g., one with “multiplicative noise” (Zhou et al., 2024); we do not seek, here, to distinguish between these different possibilities). We solve the same efficient-coding optimization problem (Eq. 6), but now with this additional constraint. We find that the resulting optimal Fisher information is approximately:

      , for the estimation task,

      and , for the discrimination task,

      for any 𝑥 on the support of the prior, and where 𝑥<sub>mid</sub> is the middle of the prior and 𝜃 is a constant. These Fisher-information functions differ from the one previously obtained without the additional constraint (Eq. 9), in that they fall off as 1/𝑥<sup>2</sup>, consistent with our additional constraint. However, we note that the dependence on the prior width, 𝑤, is identical: here also, the imprecision is proportional to , in the estimation task, and to 𝑤<sup>3/4</sup>, in the discrimination task.

      In its logarithmic variant (𝜇(𝑥) = log (𝑥)), the Fisher information of the model of Gaussian representations that we have considered throughout is 1/(𝑥 𝜈 𝑤<sup>𝛼</sup>)<sup>2</sup>. It is thus consistent with the predictions just presented, if 𝛼 = 1/2 for the estimation task, and 𝛼 = 3/4 for the discrimination task, i.e., the two values that best fit the data.

      This is precisely the model suggested by Reviewer #2. Overall, we conclude that with both linear and logarithmic encoding schemes, our efficient-coding model — wherein the degree of imprecision is endogenously determined — accounts for the task-dependent sublinear scaling of the imprecision that we observe in behavioral data. As for the imprecision across numbers, a sizable fraction of subjects, particularly in the estimation task, are best fit by the logarithmic encoding, consistent with previous reports that numbers are often represented on a compressed, approximately logarithmic scale. This encoding may itself reflect an efficient adaptation to a long-term environmental prior that is skewed, with smaller numbers occurring more frequently, leading to greater representational precision. This pattern is less clear in the discrimination task. It is possible that the rate at which the precision decreases across numbers itself depends on the task, such that not only the overall level of imprecision, but also its variation across numbers, may be modulated by the task's demands. In this study we have focused on the endogenous choice of the overall precision, but an avenue for future research would be to examine how this adaptation interacts with the detailed shape of the encoding across numbers.

      In the revised manuscript, we have modified the presentation of the model to include the transformation 𝜇(𝑥) (p. 6-7 and 10-11). We have updated accordingly Table 1 (shown above; p. 24), which reports the BICs of all the models for the estimation task (and which now includes the models with logarithmic encoding). There is now a section in the Results dedicated to the question of the logarithmic compression, which includes the efficientcoding model constrained by the logarithmic encoding (p. 15-16). The results on the performance of subjects with larger numbers are presented in Methods (p. 29-31), and mentioned in the main text (p. 14-15). The Methods also provides details about the efficient-coding model with logarithmic encoding (p. 32-33). These results are further commented on in the Discussion (p. 18). Finally, the data and code are now available online at this address: https://osf.io/d6k3m/ , which we note on p. 33.

      Reference

      Zhou, J., Duong, L. R., & Simoncelli, E. P. (2024). A unified framework for perceived magnitude and discriminability of sensory stimuli. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 121(25), e2312293121. https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2312293121

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This work demonstrates that people's imprecision in numeric perception varies with the stimulus context and task goal. By measuring imprecision across different widths of uniform prior distributions in estimation and discrimination tasks, the authors find that imprecision changes sublinearly with prior width, challenging previous range normalization models. They further show that these changes align with the efficient encoding model, where decision-makers balance expected rewards and encoding costs optimally.

      Strengths:

      The experimental design is straightforward, controlling the mean of the number distribution while varying the prior width. By assessing estimation errors and discrimination accuracy, the authors effectively highlight how imprecision adjusts across conditions.

      The model's predictions align well with the data, with the exponential terms (1/2 and 3/4) of imprecision changes matching the empirical results impressively.

      We thank Reviewer #3 for his/her positive comments on our work.

      Weaknesses:

      Some details in the model section are unclear. Specifically, I'm puzzled by the Wiener process assumption where r∣x∼N(m(x)T,s^2T). Does this imply that both the representation of number x and the noise are nearly zero at the beginning, increasing as observation time progresses? This seems counterintuitive, and a clearer explanation would be helpful.

      In the original formulation of the model, indeed both the mean of the representation and its variance are nearly zero when T is also near zero, but in such a way that the Fisher information, 𝑇(𝑚′(𝑥)/𝑠)<sup>2</sup>, is proportional to 𝑇. We note that a different specification, with a mean 𝑚(𝑥) (instead of 𝑚(𝑥)𝑇) and a variance 𝑠<sup>2</sup>/𝑇 (instead of 𝑠<sup>2</sup>𝑇), i.e., 𝑟|𝑥~𝑁(𝑚(𝑥), 𝑠<sup>2</sup>/𝑇), for 𝑇 > 0, would result in the same Fisher information.

      In any event, in the revised manuscript, we now formulate the model differently. Specifically, we assume that the encoding results from an accumulation of independent, identically-distributed signals, but the precision of each signal is limited, and each of them entails a cost. Formally, we posit, first, that the Fisher information of one signal, 𝐼<sub>1</sub>(𝑥), is subject to the constraint:

      This constraint appears in many other efficient-coding models in the literature (Wei & Stocker 2015, 2016; Wang et al. 2016; Morais & Pillow, 2018; etc.), and it arises naturally for unidimensional encoding channels (Prat-Carrabin & Woodford, 2001; e.g., for a neuron with a sigmoidal tuning curve, it is equivalent to assuming that the range of possible firing rates is bounded). Second, we assume that the observer incurs a cost each time a signal is emitted (e.g., the energy resources consumed by action potentials). The total cost is thus proportional to the number of signals, which we denote by 𝑛. More signals, however, allow for a better precision: specifically, under the assumption of independent signals, the total Fisher information resulting from 𝑛 signals is the sum of the Fisher information of each signal, i.e., 𝐼(𝑥) = 𝑛𝐼<sub>1</sub>(𝑥).

      A tradeoff ensues between the increased precision brought by accumulating more signals, and the cost of these signals. We assume that the observer chooses the function 𝐼<sub>1</sub>(.) and the number 𝑛 of signals that solve the minimization problem subject to ,

      where 𝜆 > 0. We can first solve this problem for the Fisher information of one signal, 𝐼<sub>1</sub>(𝑥). In the case of a uniform prior of width 𝑤, we find that it is zero outside of the support of the prior, and

      for any 𝑥 on the support of the prior. This intermediate result corresponds to the optimal Fisher information of an observer who is not allowed to choose the number of signal, 𝑛, (and who receives instead 𝑛 = 1 signal). It is the solution predicted by the efficient-coding models mentioned above, that include the constraint on 𝐼<sub>1</sub>(𝑥), but that do not allow for the observer to choose the amount of signals, 𝑛. With this solution, the scale of the observer's imprecision, , is proportional to 𝑤, and it does not depend on the task — contrary to our experimental results.

      Solving the optimization problem for 𝑛, in addition to 𝐼<sub>1</sub>(𝑥), we find that with a uniform prior the optimal number is proportional to 𝑤 in the estimation task, and to in the discrimination task (specifically, treating 𝑛 as continuous, we obtain ). In other words, the observer chooses to obtain more signals when the prior is wider, and in a way that depends on the task. We give the general solution for the total Fisher information, 𝐼(𝑥) = 𝑛𝐼<sub>1</sub>(𝑥), in the case of a prior 𝜋(𝑥) that is not necessarily uniform:

      where 𝜃 = 𝜆/𝐾. This is of course the same solution that we obtained in the original manuscript.

      We hope that this new formulation of the efficient-coding model will seem more intuitive to the reader (p. 12-13 in the revised manuscript).

      The authors explore range normalization models with Gaussian representation, but another common approach is the logarithmic representation (Barretto-García et al., 2023; Khaw et al., 2021). Could the logarithmic representation similarly lead to sublinearity in noise and distribution width?

      We agree with Reviewer #3 that a common approach when modeling the perception of numbers is to consider a logarithmic encoding. We have conducted several analyzes that examine this proposal. These are presented in detail in our response to a comment of Reviewer #2, above (p. 11-14 of this document). We summarize shortly our findings, here:

      (i) A model with a logarithmic encoding better fits a majority of subjects in the estimation task, but a bit less than half the subjects in the discrimination task.

      (ii) The examination of the performance of subjects in the discrimination task, however, suggests that in the Wide condition they discriminate slightly better the small numbers, as compared to the larger numbers.

      (iii) We consider a constrained version of our efficient-coding model, in which the Fisher information must be consistent with that of a logarithmic encoding (i.e., decreasing as 1/𝑥<sup>2</sup>); we find that the resulting optimal Fisher information depends on the prior width in the same way than without the constraint, i.e., a scaling of the imprecision with , in the estimation task, and with 𝑤<sup>3/4</sup>, in the discrimination task.

      (iv) When considering the model with logarithmic encoding, we find that it best fits the data when its imprecision scales with the width with the same exponents, i.e., , in the estimation task (𝛼 = 1/2), and 𝑤<sup>3/4</sup>, in the discrimination task (𝛼 = 3/4). In other words, the data support the predictions of our theoretical model.

      In the revised manuscript, we have modified accordingly the presentation of the model (p. 6-7 and 10-11), the Tables 1 (p. 24) and 2 (p. 30) which report the BICs. There is now a section in the Results dedicated to the question of the logarithmic compression, including the efficient-coding model constrained by the logarithmic encoding (p. 15-16). The results on the performance of subjects with larger numbers are presented in Methods (p. 29-31), and mentioned in the main text (p. 15-16). The Methods also provides details about the efficient-coding model with logarithmic encoding (p. 32-33). These results are further commented on in the Discussion (p. 18). Finally, we now cite the articles mentioned by Reviewer #3 (Barretto-García et al., 2023; Khaw et al., 2021).

      Additionally, Heng et al. (2020) found that subjects did not alter their encoding strategy across different task goals, which seems inconsistent with the fully adaptive representation proposed here. I didn't find the analysis of participants' temporal dynamics of adaptation. The behavioral results in the manuscript seem to imply that the subjects adopted different coding schemes in a very short period of time. Yet in previous studies of adaptation, experimental results seem to be more supportive of a partial adaptive behavior (Bujold et al., 2021; Heng et al., 2020), which might balance experimental and real-world prior distributions. Analyzing temporal dynamics might provide more insight. Noting that the authors informed subjects about the shape of the prior distribution before the experiment, do the results in this manuscript suggest a top-down rapid modulation of number representation?

      We thank Reviewer #3 for his/her comment and for pointing to these articles. The Reviewer raises several points — that of the dynamics of adaptation, that of the adaptation to the prior, and that of the adaptation to the task. We address each of them.

      To investigate the dynamics of the subjects’ adaptation, we examined separately, in each task, the responses obtained in the trials in the first and second halves of each condition. In the estimation task, the standard deviations of responses, as a function of the presented number and of the prior width, are very similar in the two halves (see Figure 8, panel a). The Bonferroni-Holm-corrected p-values of Levene's tests of equality of the variances across the two halves are all above 0.13, and thus we do not reject the hypothesis that the variance in the first half of the trials is equal to the variance in the second half. Moreover, the variance in both halves appear to be a linear function of the width, rather than the squared width (panel b). We conclude that the behavior of subjects in the estimation task is stable across each experimental condition, including the sublinear scaling of their imprecision.

      In the discrimination task, the subjects' choice probabilities, as a function of the difference between the averages of the red and blue numbers, are similar in the first and second halves of trials (panel c). The Bonferroni-Holm-corrected p-values of Fisher exact tests of equality of proportions (in bins of the average difference that contain about 500 trials each) are all above 0.9, and thus we do not reject the hypothesis that the choice probabilities are equal, in the first and second halves of the trials. Furthermore, the choice probabilities as a function of the absolute average difference normalized by the prior width raised to the exponent 3/4 are all similar, across session halves and across prior widths, suggesting that the sublinear scaling that we find is a stable behavior of subjects (panel d).

      Overall, we conclude that the behavior we exhibit in both tasks is stable over the course of each experimental condition. We note that in both experiments, subjects were explicitly informed of the prior distribution at the beginning of each condition, and each condition included two preliminary training phases that familiarized them with the prior (the specifics for each task are detailed in the Methods section).

      As pointed out by Reviewer #3, Heng et al. (2020) and Bujold et al. (2021) report a partial adaptation of encoding to recently experienced distributions. We note that in our study, a sizable fraction of subjects, particularly in the estimation task, are best fit by the logarithmic encoding. This suggests that, while subjects adapt to the experimental prior, they retain a residual logarithmic compression — an encoding that itself would be efficient under a long-term, skewed prior in which smaller numbers are more frequent. In that sense our findings are thus consistent with the partial adaptation of Heng et al. (2020) and Bujold et al. (2021). At the same time, the same sublinear scaling of imprecision that we find in our study has been obtained in a numerosity-estimation task in which the prior was changed on every trial (Prat-Carrabin et al., 2025), indicating that the adaptation to the prior can occur quickly (on the order of a second) — possibly through a fast top-down modulation of the encoding, as suggested by Reviewer #3. These findings suggest that on a short timescale the encoding adapts efficiently to the prior (as evidenced by the scaling in imprecision), but within structural constraints (the logarithmic encoding).

      Regarding the adaptation to the task, Heng et al. (2020) indeed do not find subjects to be adapting their encoding, across two discrimination tasks (one in which the subject is rewarded for making the correct choice, and one in which the subject is rewarded with the chosen option). A difference with our paradigm is that their task involves simultaneous presentation of two dot arrays, while our discrimination task uses two interleaved sequences of Arabic numerals. More importantly, we do not directly compare the encoding between the estimation and discrimination tasks. Instead, we show that within each task, the adaptation to the prior is quantitatively consistent with the optimal coding predicted for that task's objective, as reflected in the task-specific sublinear scaling exponents. Directly contrasting the encoding across tasks would be a very interesting direction for future work.

      In the revised manuscript, we present the analysis on the stability of subjects’ behavior in the Methods section (p. 29), and we mention it in the main text when presenting the results of the estimation task (p. 5) and of the discrimination task (p. 8-10). In the Discussion, we cite Heng et al. (2020) and Bujold et al. (2021) and comment on the adaptation to the prior and to the task (p. 18).

      Barretto-García, M., De Hollander, G., Grueschow, M., Polanía, R., Woodford, M., & Ruff, C. C. (2023). Individual risk attitudes arise from noise in neurocognitive magnitude representations. Nature Human Behaviour, 7(9), 15511567. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41562-023-01643-4

      Bujold, P. M., Ferrari-Toniolo, S., & Schultz, W. (2021). Adaptation of utility functions to reward distribution in rhesus monkeys. Cognition, 214, 104764. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cognition.2021.104764

      Heng, J. A., Woodford, M., & Polania, R. (2020). Efficient sampling and noisy decisions. eLife, 9, e54962. https://doi.org/10.7554/eLife.54962

      Khaw, M. W., Li, Z., & Woodford, M. (2021). Cognitive Imprecision and SmallStakes Risk Aversion. The Review of Economic Studies, 88(4), 19792013. https://doi.org/10.1093/restud/rdaa044

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) As mentioned above, the result of inverse u-shaped variability is in strong qualitative agreement with the predictions of a generic Bayesian encoding-decoding model of a flat prior, even under a standard encoding respecting Weber's law, as shown in Figure 5d in: Hahn & Wei, A unifying theory explains seemingly contradictory biases in perceptual estimation, Nature Neuroscience 2024. This paper should probably be cited.

      We now cite Hahn & Wei, 2024. We comment above on our analyzes regarding the logarithmic encoding.

      (2) "Requests for the data can be sent via email to the corresponding author" Why are the data not made openly available? Barring ethical or legal concerns (which are not apparent for this type of data), there is no reason not to make data and code open.

      "Requests for the code used for all analyses can be sent via email to the corresponding author." Same: why not make them open?

      We agree that it is good practice to make the data and code publicly available. They are now available here: https://osf.io/d6k3m/

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The orange dot in Figure 1C does not appear to be described in the figure caption, although an explanation of it is mentioned in the main text.

      We thank Reviewer #3 for pointing out this omission. We now include explanations in the caption.

      I hope the authors will consider making their data publicly available on OSF or another platform.

      The data and code are now publicly available on OSF: https://osf.io/d6k3m/

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors aimed to assess the variability in the expression of surface protein multigene families between amastigote and trypomastigote Trypanosoma cruzi, as well as between individuals within each population. The analysis presented shows higher expression of multigene family transcripts in trypomastigotes compared to amastigotes and that there is variation in which copies are expressed between individual parasites. Notably, they find no clear subpopulations expressing previously characterised trans-sialidase groups. The mapping accuracy to these multicopy genes requires demonstration to confirm this, and the analysis could be extended further to probe the features of the top expressed genes and the other multigene families also identified as variable.

      Strengths:

      The authors successfully process methanol-fixed parasites with the 10x Genomics platform. This approach is valuable for other studies where using live parasites for these methods is logistically challenging.

      Weaknesses:

      The authors describe a single experiment, which lacks controls or complementation with other approaches and the investigation is limited to the trans-sialidase transcripts.

      It would be more convincing to show either bioinformatically or by carrying out a controlled experiment, that the sequencing generated has been mapped accurately to different members of multigene families to distinguish their expression. If mapping to the multigene families is inaccurate, this will impact the transcript counts and downstream analysis.

      We thank the reviewer for raising these important points.

      We agree that the analysis of multigene families at the single-cell level is an important question, particularly given the heterogeneity observed across several of them. However, the aim of this short report is not to provide a comprehensive analysis of the entire experiment, but rather to focus on what we consider an important biological phenomenon observed in TcTS genes.

      Regarding the mapping accuracy of the reads, we acknowledge that this can limit the disambiguation of highly similar multicopy transcripts. This is, in fact, a common challenge when analyzing transcriptomic data from T. cruzi.

      To address this issue, we analyzed the sequence identity of the 3′ ends of TcS transcripts (defined as the 3′UTR plus 20% of the CDS region). As shown in Author response image 1, these regions display a median sequence identity of approximately 25%, indicating that sufficient sequence divergence exists for mapping algorithms to use during read assignment.

      In addition, it is important to note that kallisto, the software used in our analysis, was specifically designed to address multimapping reads through pseudoalignment combined with an expectation-maximization algorithm that probabilistically assigns reads across compatible transcripts.

      To directly assess performance, we simulated reads from the T. cruzi transcriptome used in this study (3′UTRs plus 20% of the CDS regions) and compared two mapping/counting strategies: (a) transcriptome pseudoalignment using kallisto, and (b) genome alignment followed by counting using STAR + featureCounts. The latter approximates the strategy implemented in CellRanger, the standard pipeline for quantifying expression levels from 10X Genomics single cell RNA-seq data. We found that kallisto recovered the simulated “true” counts with substantially higher accuracy than STAR + featureCounts (Pearson correlation: all genes, 0.991 vs 0.595; surface protein genes, 0.9996 vs 0.827; trans-sialidase (TcS) genes, 0.9998 vs 0.773). These results indicate that pseudoalignment is currently the optimal strategy for recovering the relative expression of highly similar gene family members (Author response image 1 C).

      Author response image 1

      (A) Distribution of pairwise sequence identity values calculated among the 3′-end regions of all transcripts (defined as the 3′UTR plus 20% of the coding sequence). (B) Distribution of read mapping coordinates over all multigene family transcripts normalized as percentage of the gene length (C) Scatter plots showing the correlation between estimated transcript counts obtained using kallisto (red) and STAR + featureCounts (grey) versus the corresponding simulated ground-truth values.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This manuscript presents a valuable single-cell RNA-seq study on Trypanosoma cruzi, an important human parasite. It investigates the expression heterogeneity of surface proteins, particularly those from the trans-sialidase-like (TcS) superfamily, within amastigote and trypomastigote populations. The findings suggest a previously underappreciated level of diversity in TcS expression, which could have implications for understanding parasite-host interactions and immune evasion strategies. The use of single-cell approaches to delve into population heterogeneity is strong. However, the study does have some limitations that need to be addressed.

      The focus on single-cell transcriptional heterogeneity in surface proteins, especially the TcS family, in T. cruzi is novel. Given the important role of these proteins in parasite biology and host interaction, the findings have potential significance.

      Strengths:

      The key finding of heterogeneous TcS expression in trypomastigotes is well-supported. The analysis comparing multigene families, single-copy genes, and ribosomal proteins highlights the unusual nature of the variation in surface protein-coding genes.

      Weaknesses:

      While the manuscript identifies TcS heterogeneity, the functional implications of the different expression profiles remain speculative. The authors state it may reflect differences in infectivity, but no direct experimental evidence supports this.

      The manuscript lacks any functional validation of the single-cell findings. For instance, do the trypomastigote subpopulations identified based on TcS expression exhibit differences in infectivity, host cell tropism, or immune evasion? Such experiments would greatly strengthen the study.

      We thank the reviewer for their careful reading of the manuscript. We agree that obtaining experimental evidence on the influence of multiple multigene families would represent a significant advancement in the field. However, we would like to emphasize that this study is presented as a short communication centered on a specific and biologically relevant observation within a single multigene family. The aim of the manuscript is to highlight what we consider an important biological phenomenon that raises hypotheses to be tested in future work.

      The influence of phenotypic heterogeneity and its possible advantages under environmental pressures has been previously proposed for Trypanosoma cruzi, related trypanosomatids, and other biological systems, ranging from bacteria to tumors (Seco-Hidalgo 2015, doi: 10.1098/rsob.150190 and Luzak 2021, doi: 10.1146/annurev-micro-040821-012953, for a comprehensive review on this topic). While the reviewer is correct in noting that our model does not demonstrate a functional role for TcTS heterogeneity, the experimental approaches required to address this question in a large multigene family are highly complex. This is particularly challenging in T. cruzi, where the study of multigene families is limited by the restricted set of available molecular biology tools (such as RNAi). Therefore, further experimental validation of these observations falls outside the scope of this short report.

      In this revised version, we have included additional validation and clarification of the results, as well as a more explicit discussion of their limitations. In addition, we present a preliminary analysis exploring potential mechanisms that could coordinate the observed expression patterns of the TcTS family.

      The authors identify a subpopulation of TcS genes that are highly expressed in many cells. However, it is unclear if these correspond to previously characterized TcS members with specific functions.

      The TcS subgroup with a high frequency of detection comprises 31 genes, none of which belong to the catalytically active Group I trans-sialidases. Instead, this subgroup includes members of Groups II, III, IV, V, VI, and VIII. This information has been added to Supplementary Table 3 and is now stated in the revised manuscript.

      The authors hypothesize that observed heterogeneity may relate to chromatin regulation. However, the study does not directly address these mechanisms. There are interesting connections to be made with what they identify as the colocalization of genes within chromatin folding domains, but the authors do not fully explore this. It would be insightful to address these mechanisms in future work.

      In response to the reviewer’s and editorial team’s request for additional mechanistic insight into the regulatory processes that may be involved in the observed patterns, we have expanded the revised manuscript to discuss how the genomic context of TcS loci could contribute to the observed heterogeneity in TcS expression. As noted in the original version of the manuscript, TcS genes and other surface-protein gene families are largely partitioned into discrete genomic compartments, whose expression has been reported to be regulated by epigenetic control of chromatin-folding domains (doi.org/10.1038/s41564-023-01483-y). However, we previously showed that TcS genes detected in a high proportion of cells are, in most cases, dispersed throughout the genome, arguing against a model in which their preferential expression results from colocalization within a small number of ubiquitously activated chromatin domains. In response to the reviewer’s suggestion, we performed a more detailed analysis of the genomic locations of these TcS genes. We found that many of them are localized within the core compartment (new Figure 5). Because the core compartment is enriched for conserved, housekeeping genes that typically display more constitutive expression (doi.org/10.1038/s41564-023-01483-y), whereas the disruptive compartment is enriched for lineage-specific multigene families associated with variable, stage-specific, and recently reported stochastic expression (doi.org/10.1038/s41467-025-64900-2), our results are consistent with a model in which compartment-specific regulatory mechanisms (in addition to post-transcriptional regulation) influence the differential cellular expression of core- versus disruptive-located TcS genes. We have incorporated these results and discussion in the revised manuscript.

      The merging of technical replicates needs further justification and explanation as they were not processed through separate experimental conditions. While barcodes were retained, it would be informative to know how well each technical replicate corresponds with the other. If both datasets were sequenced on the same lane, the inclusion of technical replicates adds noise to the analysis.

      Regarding technical details, we now include the total number of mapped reads and average number of reads mapped per cell (new paragraph in the Methods section.

      The technical replicates consist of a single Illumina library that was sequenced in two separate runs. As this approach is expected to be highly reproducible, we merged both runs into a single count table. To support this decision, we assessed the concordance between the two sequencing runs and observed an almost perfect correlation between them (Author response image 2).

      Author response image 2.

      Correlation analysis of number of reads assigned to cells between technical replicate 1 and technical replicate 2.

      While the number of cells sequenced (3192) seems reasonable, it's not clear how much the conclusions are affected by the depth of sequencing. A more detailed description of the sequencing depth and its impact on gene detection would be valuable.

      We detected a mean of 1088 genes per cell. Based on the 15,319 annotated protein-coding genes in the reference genome, this represents 7.1% of the T. cruzi protein-coding gene complement detected in each cell.

      Across the entire dataset, a total of 14,321 genes were detected in at least one cell, representing 93.5% of all annotated protein-coding genes. This suggests that our experiment captured a broad representation of the parasite's transcriptome.

      This per-cell detection rate is characteristic of droplet-based scRNA-seq and is consistent with other trypanosomatid studies. For example, the T. brucei single-cell atlas (Hutchinson et al., 2021) reported a median detection of 1052 genes per cell. In the case of T. cruzi, the recently published pre-print of the T. cruzi single cell atlas from Laidlaw & García-Sánchez et al. reported a mean between 298 and 928 genes detected per cell (depending on the sample).

      This information is now included in Methods.

      While most of the methods are clear, the way in which the subsampled gene lists were generated could be more thoroughly described, as some details are not clear for the subsampling of single-copy genes.

      The subsampling method was originally described in the Figure 2 legend; to better highlight this approach, we have now moved its description to the Methods section.

      Some of the figures are difficult to interpret. For example, the color scaling in the heatmap of Supplementary Figure 3B is not self-explanatory and it is hard to extract meaningful conclusions from the graph.

      We agree with the reviewer in this assessment. We have now modified the figures to be more self-explanatory and better reflect the conclusions.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      The study aimed to address a fundamental question in T. cruzi and Chagas disease biology - how much variation is there in gene expression between individual parasites? This is particularly important with respect to the surface protein-encoding genes, which are mainly from massive repetitive gene families with 100s to 1000s of variant sequences in the genome. There is very little direct evidence for how the expression of these genes is controlled. The authors conducted a single-cell RNAseq experiment of in vitro cultured parasites with a mixture of amastigotes and trypomastigotes. Most of the analysis focused on the heterogeneity of gene expression patterns amongst trypomastigotes. They show that heterogeneity was very high for all gene classes, but surface-protein encoding genes were the most variable. In the case of the trans-sialidase gene family, many sequence variants were only detected in a small minority of parasites. The biology of the parasite (e.g. extensive post-transcriptional regulation) and potential technical caveats (e.g. high dropout rates across the genome) make it difficult to infer what this might mean for actual protein expression on the parasite surface.

      We thank the reviewer for this important comment, highlighting a central challenge when studying trypanosomatid biology. We acknowledge that in most eukaryotes and particularly in T. cruzi, where there is a predominant role of post-transcriptional regulation, mRNA levels are not always directly correlated with protein abundance, as previously reported by us and others (10.1186/s12864-015-1563-8, 10.1128/msphere.00366-21, 10.1590/S0074-02762011000300002, 10.1042/bse0510031). Nevertheless, steady-state transcript levels obtained by RNA-seq remain informative for assessing differential gene expression, and this approach has been widely used as a proxy for the study of gene expression profiles in T. cruzi (10.7717/peerj.3017, 10.1371/journal.ppat.1005511, 10.1016/j.jbc.2023.104623, 10.3389/fcimb.2023.1138456, 10.1186/s13071-023-05775-4).

      It's also interesting to note that recent proteomic analyses (10.1038/s41467-025-64900-2) have revealed substantial heterogeneity in the expression of surface proteins, including trans-sialidases, supporting the idea that the transcriptional heterogeneity we observe reflects a genuine biological feature that propagates to the protein level.

      We have now added a sentence to the discussion acknowledging this limitation and discussed the results from Cruz-Saavedra, et al. in the revised manuscript.

      (1) Limit of detection and gene dropouts

      An average of ~1100 genes are detected per parasite which indicates a dropout rate of over 90%. It appears that RNA for the "average" single copy 'core' gene is only detected in around 3% of the parasites sampled (Figure 2c: ~100 / 3192). This may be comparable with some other trypanosome scRNAseq studies, but this still seems to be a major caveat to the interpretation that high cell-to-cell variability in gene expression is explained by biological rather than technical factors. The argument would be more convincing if the dropout rates and expression heterogeneity were minimal for well-known highly expressed genes e.g. tubulin, GAPDH, and ribosomal RNAs. Admittedly, in their Final Remarks, the authors are very cautious in their interpretation, but it would be good to see a more thorough discussion of technical factors that might explain the low detection rates and how these could be tested or overcome in future work.

      (2) Heterogeneity across the board

      The authors focus on the relative heterogeneity in RNA abundance for surface proteins from the multicopy gene families vs core genes. While multicopy gene sequences do show more cell-to-cell variability, the differences (Figure 2D) are roughly average Gini values of 0.99 vs 0.97 (single copy) or 0.95 (ribosomal). Other studies that have applied similar approaches in other systems describe Gini values of < 0.2-0.25 for evenly expressed "housekeeping" genes (PMIDs 29428416, 31784565). Values observed here of >0.9 indicate that the distribution for all gene classes is extremely skewed and so the biological relevance of the comparison is uncertain.

      We recognize the limitations imposed by gene dropout in our data, as highlighted by the reviewer. Unfortunately, gene dropout is an inherent limitation of 10x genomics data. Trypanosomatids are not an exception in this regard, and the general metrics of the single-cell RNA-seq data in other reports are equivalent to those obtained in our experiment.

      Despite this important limitation, we believe that our comparative analyses (the contrast between TcS and ribosomal protein expression) provide valuable insights into a biological phenomenon with potential functional relevance for the parasite. Furthermore, we are actively working on generating single-cell RNA-seq data using alternative methodologies that improve gene dropout rates. We anticipate that these future studies will help clarify the extent of the phenomenon described in this work.

      Our results reveal a small subset of TcS genes that are frequently detected across cells, a pattern that is not compatible with random detection unless these genes were highly expressed and preferentially captured by random sampling. However, as shown in Figure 4b, many genes expressed at comparable levels are not detected at high frequencies. In line with this, Figure 4c shows that within individual cells, the detected TcS genes exhibit similar expression levels. Finally, we confirmed that this frequently detected subset shows high read counts at the bulk RNA-seq level (Figure 4 - Figure Supplement 1), consistent with the fact that these TcS are frequent in the population even when they are not specially highly expressed within each cell. Taken together, these findings argue against a purely random sampling of TcS genes and support the interpretation that this pattern reflects an underlying biological feature. We agree that further validation will be required. Accordingly, since the initial submission, we have been careful to frame our conclusions conservatively, explicitly noting that dropout remains a limitation of these data that could influence the observed patterns. In the revised version, we have strengthened this point by including a specific statement in the final remarks. Our interpretation is presented as a working hypothesis that is fully compatible with the observations reported here and may be informative for the field. To better reflect this reasoning, we have revised Figure 4b, expanded the discussion, and explicitly included this limitation in the final remarks of the revised manuscript.

      Nevertheless, this study does provide some tantalising evidence that the expression of surface genes may vary substantially between individual parasites in a single clonal population. The study is also amongst the very first to apply scRNAseq to T. cruzi, so the broader data set will be an important resource for researchers in the field.

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting the relevance of our study and for their positive assessment of the potential significance of these observations. We also agree that the dataset generated here may represent a useful resource for the community.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) In Figures 1c and 1d, it would be useful to include the genes as the plot titles.

      We agree with the reviewer that including gene names in the plot makes the panels more self-explanatory. We have added gene names to the updated version of Figure 1.

      (2) Can you include the read lengths of the sequencing and whether this is sufficient to map accurately to very similar genes of the same multigene family? As stated in the public summary, this would make the data far more convincing as standard 10x chromium cannot distinguish similar gene copies unless a longer read 2 is used. Given that only the 3' end is targeted, is this enough to distinguish the TcS and other mutligene family transcripts?

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. We agree that short 3′ biased reads can limit the disambiguation of highly similar multicopy transcripts. This is, in fact, a common challenge when analyzing transcriptomic data from T. cruzi.

      To address this issue, we analyzed the sequence identity of the 3′ ends of TcS transcripts (defined as the 3′UTR plus 20% of the CDS region). As shown in Author response image 1, these regions display a median sequence identity of approximately 25%, indicating that sufficient sequence divergence exists for mapping algorithms to use during read assignment.

      In addition, it is important to note that kallisto, the software used in our analysis, was specifically designed to address multimapping reads through pseudoalignment combined with an expectation-maximization algorithm that probabilistically assigns reads across compatible transcripts.

      To directly assess performance, we simulated reads from the T. cruzi transcriptome used in this study (3′UTRs plus 20% of the CDS regions) and compared two mapping/counting strategies: (a) transcriptome pseudoalignment using kallisto, and (b) genome alignment followed by counting using STAR + featureCounts. The latter approximates the strategy implemented in CellRanger, the standard pipeline for quantifying expression levels from 10X Genomics single cell RNA-seq data. We found that kallisto recovered the simulated “true” counts with substantially higher accuracy than STAR + featureCounts (Pearson correlation: all genes, 0.991 vs 0.595; surface protein genes, 0.9996 vs 0.827; trans-sialidase (TcS) genes, 0.9998 vs 0.773). These results indicate that pseudoalignment is currently the optimal strategy for recovering the relative expression of highly similar gene family members (Author response image 1C).

      The length of the R2 read (91bp) was included in Methods (line 411).

      (3) It is stated that 'single copy' genes also include 'low copy number genes". What does this include exactly? Is it more actuate to say non-surface protein genes?

      The distinction we aim to make is between multigene families and the rest of the genome. Most multigene families encode surface proteins, but not all surface protein genes belong to multigene families. To clarify this point we included a sentence in methods to reflect that when we describe “surface proteins” we are referring to surface proteins coded by multigene families (line 453). In addition, long-read genomic DNA sequencing and assembly have revealed that many genes previously believed to be single-copy are actually duplicated at low copy numbers (doi.org/10.1099/mgen.0.000177). For this reason, we extend the concept of “single-copy” genes to include those that have only a few duplicates.

      (4) It is stated in line 127 that TcS have particular high heterogeneity - it does not look that way by eye compared to the other multigene families. Can statistic be used to prove this, or simply state the decision was made to focus on the TcS?

      As noticed by the reviewer, all multigene families show significantly higher heterogeneity compared to single-copy genes, as stated in the text and shown in figure legends from Figure 2, Supplementary Figure 1 and the new Supplementary Table 2.

      That said, it was not the statistical results that guided our decision to focus on TcS, but rather their well-established biological relevance in T. cruzi. As suggested, we have now emphasized this rationale more clearly in the revised text (lines 160-167).

      Besides, recent work has shown that TcS genes exhibit a bimodal distribution of expression levels using bulk RNA-seq data, in contrast to core genes and other multigene families (doi.org/10.1038/s41467-025-64900-2, doi.org/10.1038/s41564-023-01483-y). This distinct regulatory behavior further justifies our decision to examine TcS separately.

      (5) Expression of different TcS has been investigated between the different life cycle stages for a few individual genes previously (Freitas et al). Can the authors not extend this investigation to all the genes detect by scRNA-seq here to demonstrate those with higher/lower expression in amastigotes vs trypomastigotes building on Figure 2A? Are particular groups linked to either stage?

      We performed this analysis and did not observe any correlation between TcS groups and life cycle stage. In all cases TcS were more frequently detected in trypomastigotes. This difference was statistically significant for all groups except group VII, likely due to the low number of genes analyzed in this group (Author response image 3).

      Author response image 3.

      Per-gene number of expressing cells by TcS group and life-stage. Boxplots show, for each TcS group (I–VIII), the distribution across genes of the number of cells in which the gene is detected. Each point represents a single TcS; Amastigote cells: green points/boxes, Trypomastigote cells: salmon points/boxes. The y-axis is on log10 scale. Asterisks indicate statistically significant differences from the comparison between Amastigote and Trypomastigote within each TcS group, assessed using a paired two-sided Wilcoxon signed-rank test: * p < 0.05, ** p < 0.01, *** p < 0.001.

      (6) What exactly is the Z-score shown in Figure 2B?

      In this analysis num_multigene represents the number of multigene family genes detected in each individual cell. For every cell, we counted how many genes from our predefined multigene family gene list has detectable expression (more than zero UMI counts); in the UMAP plot, this value is reflected by the size of each point. On the other hand, z_multigene captures the relative expression level of multigene family genes within each cell. This metric is calculated by summing the UMI counts of all multigene family genes per cell and then standardizing this value across the dataset using a z-score transformation, such that positive values reflect above-average multigene family expression and negative values reflect below-average levels. In the UMAP plot, this metric determines the color scale of each point. Taking together num_multigene and z_multigene allow us to distinguish cells that express multigene family genes broadly (high gene counts), strongly (high relative expression), both, or neither, and to relate these patterns to identified cell populations.

      We included a short description in legend of the new version of Figure 2 (lines 176-180).

      (7) For the reclustering of trypomastigotes based on TcS genes alone, please show the UMAP and discuss why the resolution giving two clusters is chosen? I assume increasing the resolution does not reveal clusters of cells express one of the 8 groups of TcS for example?

      We appreciate the reviewer’s suggestion. In this analysis, our goal was to test whether the phenotypic heterogeneity previously reported in trypomastigotes could be recapitulated using TcS genes alone, as prior studies described two major transcriptomic phenotypes within this stage.

      Increasing the clustering resolution did not reveal subclusters corresponding to the eight TcS sequence groups. This might reflect the fact that these groups are defined based on sequence similarity rather than on expression patterns, as noted by Freitas et al. (doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0025914).

      (8) In Figure 4B, there may be an upward trend in the level of expression and the number of cells a transcript is detected in? It would be worth showing this is or is not the case with statistics if possible.

      The number of genes detected in a high proportion of cells is low, which limits the statistical power of this analysis. Also, substantial dispersion is observed within the 0-5% interval. Nevertheless, this figure is presented primarily to highlight that a considerable number of highly expressed genes are detected in only a small fraction of cells. If expression level were the main determinant of detection frequency across cells, one would expect very few highly expressed genes to fall within the 0-5% interval. Contrary to this expectation, among the 50 highest expressed TcS genes, 62% are detected in fewer than 5% of cells, and even among the top 10 most highly expressed TcS genes, 40% fall within this lowest detection group. To facilitate this interpretation, we modified the figure (new Figure 4b) to explicitly highlight the top 50 most expressed TcS genes and incorporated this discussion into the main text of the revised manuscript (lines 244-251), making the conclusion clearer to the reader.

      (9) Do the cells group instead by expression of any of the other multigene families not investigated in detail?

      It is possible that additional transcriptional substructure among trypomastigotes is driven by the expression of other multigene families beyond TcS. In this short report (with limited number of figures, words, etc.), we focused specifically on the trans-sialidase family as discussed earlier. A more comprehensive analysis including other large surface gene families (MASPs, mucins, GP63) is planned as part of ongoing work and will be presented in future reports.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      This reviewer suggests the conduction of functional experiments in follow-up studies to establish links between TcS expression profiles and parasite behavior and into potential regulatory mechanisms responsible for the observed TcS heterogeneity, particularly focusing on epigenetic modifications. It would be interesting to correlate the highly expressed TcS members identified here with previously characterized TcS isoforms and provide more description regarding which particular groups and TcS members are driving the findings. It would benefit from further clarification regarding sequencing depth, technical replication merging, subsampling, and specific parameters for alignment methods and more information regarding the specific statistical tests and their applicability to the data.

      This is a promising single-cell study with potentially high significance. The manuscript is well-written, and the analyses are reasonably well-executed. However, the current manuscript is limited by a lack of functional validation and mechanistic insights. The addition of further analyses and experiments, as suggested, will strengthen the conclusions and increase the impact of the work.

      We thank the reviewer for their careful reading of the manuscript. As suggested, we have performed additional validation and clarification of the results, as well as a more explicit discussion of their limitations. In addition, we have included a preliminary analysis exploring potential mechanisms that could be coordinating the observed expression patterns of the TcS family (see below). Even though we consider relevant and interesting to experimentally validate these results, given the inherent difficulties in studying multigene families in T. cruzi, an organism with a very limited set of molecular biology tools (such as RNAi), further experimental validation of these observations is outside of the scope of this short report.

      Regarding the reviewer’s question, we studied if any TcS subgroup could be driving our observations. However, we did not find any correlations indicating that a particular group was associated with any of our findings. We now include TcS group information to Supplementary Table 3.

      Regarding technical details, we now included the total number of mapped reads (line 422) and average number of reads mapped per cell (new paragraph in the Methods section, line 432-436).  

      The technical replicates consist of a single Illumina library that was sequenced in two separate runs. As this approach is expected to be highly reproducible, we merged both runs into a single count table, as stated in line 424. To support this decision, we assessed the concordance between the two sequencing runs and observed an almost perfect correlation between them (Author response image 2).

      The subsampling method was originally described in the Figure 2 legend; to better highlight this approach, we have now moved its description to the Methods section (line 456).

      The specific kallisto parameters used are stated in Methods (line 418-419). We now included that default options were used unless otherwise specified (line 419-420).

      In response to the reviewer’s and editorial team’s request for additional mechanistic insight into the regulatory processes that may be involved in the observed patterns, we have expanded the revised manuscript to discuss how the genomic context of TcS loci could contribute to the observed heterogeneity in TcS expression. As noted in the original version of the manuscript, TcS genes and other surface-protein gene families are largely partitioned into discrete genomic compartments, whose expression has been reported to be regulated by epigenetic control of chromatin-folding domains (doi.org/10.1038/s41564-023-01483-y). However, we previously showed that TcS genes detected in a high proportion of cells are, in most cases, dispersed throughout the genome, arguing against a model in which their preferential expression results from colocalization within a small number of ubiquitously activated chromatin domains. In response to the reviewer’s suggestion, we performed a more detailed analysis of the genomic locations of these TcS genes. We found that many of them are localized within the core compartment (new Figure 5). Because the core compartment is enriched for conserved, housekeeping genes that typically display more constitutive expression (doi.org/10.1038/s41564-023-01483-y), whereas the disruptive compartment is enriched for lineage-specific multigene families associated with variable, stage-specific, and recently reported stochastic expression (doi.org/10.1038/s41467-025-64900-2), our results are consistent with a model in which compartment-specific regulatory mechanisms (in addition to post-transcriptional regulation) influence the differential cellular expression of core- versus disruptive-located TcS genes. We have incorporated these results and discussion in line 301-313 of the revised manuscript.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) The authors consistently refer to gene "expression" but somewhere they should acknowledge that in trypanosomes RNA abundance is less predictive of protein than in most other organisms.

      We thank the reviewer for this important comment, highlighting a central challenge when studying trypanosomatid biology. We acknowledge that in most eukaryotes and particularly in T. cruzi, where there is a predominant role of post-transcriptional regulation, mRNA levels are not always directly correlated with protein abundance, as previously reported by us and others (10.1186/s12864-015-1563-8, 10.1128/msphere.00366-21, 10.1590/S0074-02762011000300002, 10.1042/bse0510031). Nevertheless, steady-state transcript levels obtained by RNA-seq remain informative for assessing differential gene expression, and this approach has been widely used as a proxy for the study of gene expression profiles in T. cruzi (10.7717/peerj.3017, 10.1371/journal.ppat.1005511, 10.1016/j.jbc.2023.104623, 10.3389/fcimb.2023.1138456, 10.1186/s13071-023-05775-4).

      It's also interesting to note that recent proteomic analyses (10.1038/s41467-025-64900-2) have revealed substantial heterogeneity in the expression of surface proteins, including trans-sialidases, supporting the idea that the transcriptional heterogeneity we observe reflects a genuine biological feature that propagates to the protein level.

      We have now added a sentence to the discussion acknowledging this limitation and discussed the results from Cruz-Saavedra, et al. in linea 266-271 of the revised manuscript.

      (2) Line 29, in the abstract there is a strong statement that T. cruzi "does not employ antigenic variation". I don't think there is much evidence either way if we are thinking about antigenic variation in the broad sense rather than the extreme model of T. brucei VSG switching. Later in the abstract they state that "no recurrent combinations of TcS genes were observed between individual cells in the population", which sounds very much like a form of antigenic variation.

      We agree with the reviewer. Indeed, we meant to state that T. cruzi does not employ an antigenic variation mechanism such as the one from T. brucei. We change this statement as suggested in lines 28 - 32.

      (3) Line 29, "relies on a diverse array of cell-surface-associated proteins encoded by large multi-copy gene families (multigene families) essential for infectivity and immune evasion" and lines 55-58 "T. cruzi infection relies on a heterogeneous set of membrane proteins, encoded mainly by large multigene families ... most of which are involved in infection, tropism, and immune evasion". It would be worth adding a bit more detail on the nature and strength of the evidence that Tc "relies on" these various genes or that they are "essential" for infectivity, tropism, and immune evasion.

      Because the journal’s short format imposes word limits, we strengthened the original statement by adding specific references that document genomic, transcriptomic and functional evidence linking the major multigene families to infectivity, tropism and immune evasion (doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0025914; doi.org/10.1038/nrmicro1351; doi.org/10.1128/iai.05329-11; doi.org/10.1093/nar/gkp172, doi.org/10.1371/journal.ppat.1006767), in line 77.

      (4) Line 89, 1088 genes detected per cell - what is this as a % of genes in the genome?

      We detected a mean of 1088 genes per cell. Based on the 15,319 annotated protein-coding genes in the reference genome, this represents 7.1% of the T. cruzi protein-coding gene complement detected in each cell.

      Across the entire dataset, a total of 14,321 genes were detected in at least one cell, representing 93.5% of all annotated protein-coding genes. This suggests that our experiment captured a broad representation of the parasite's transcriptome.

      This per-cell detection rate is characteristic of droplet-based scRNA-seq and is consistent with other trypanosomatid studies. For example, the T. brucei single-cell atlas (Hutchinson et al., 2021) reported a median detection of 1052 genes per cell. In the case of T. cruzi, the recently published pre-print of the T. cruzi single cell atlas from Laidlaw & García-Sánchez et al. reported a mean between 298 and 928 genes detected per cell (depending on the sample).

      This information is now included in Methods (line 435).

      (5) Line 93-94, how many cells were assigned to clusters 0 and 1?

      Cluster 0 had 2201 cells and cluster 1 had 824 cells assigned.  We have now included these specific numbers in new version of the manuscript (line 114).

      (6) Line 96, cluster 2 ama-trypo transitioning parasites - were these observable by microscopy?

      We did not perform microscopy specifically to observe or quantify the putative ama/trypo transitioning subpopulation: microscopy was only used as a pre-experiment quality check to verify cell morphology and viability. The inference that cluster 2 reflects ama/trypo transitioning parasites is drawn from the transcriptomic profile (particularly from the pattern of stage-associated marker expression observed in that cluster) and should be considered a hypothesis generated by the data, that merits further analysis, as stated in the manuscript.

      (7) Line 106-107, "As expected, single-copy gene expression is high in both amastigotes and trypomastigotes and similar on average between both cell types".

      (8) Why as expected? For a broad journal it would be useful to explain this. Amastigotes are replicative and trypomastigotes are not, so would we not expect to see some differences that reflect this?

      (9) What do you mean by the expression being "high"? High compared to what?

      (10) "Similar on average between both cell types". This does not seem concordant with Figure 1a showing a highly significant difference between ama and trypo.

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful request for clarification for broader readers and the observations regarding global expression of single copy and multigene family genes.

      Figure 2a is intended as an experimental control where we show that our 10X Genomics data shows the previously reported upregulation of surface protein genes in trypomastigotes. We have now modified the text in order to highlight this (line 129). In turn, Supplementary Figure 1a is shown as a control that this upregulation is not a general feature of trypomastigote cells.

      Regarding comment 9, what we meant is that single-copy genes display relatively high expression in both amastigotes and trypomastigotes compared with surface protein-coding genes (see expression values in Figures 2a and Supplementary Figure 1a).

      Finally, differential expression between amastigotes and trypomastigotes at the transcriptomic level has been previously studied and has shown that most single copy genes do not show variation, explaining the overall pattern of Supplementary Figure 1a where average expression is similar between stages (mean fold change = 1.1). This is likely due to the fact that these genes are related to basic cellular functions. Genes related to stage specific functions such as replication in amastigotes or normalization effects may be causing the slight, but statistically significant increase observed in overall expression in amastigotes. This contrasts with the pattern observed for multigene families where there is a clear overexpression in trypomastigotes (mean fold change = 1.5).

      As observations commented on questions 9 and 10 have been described in previous studies and are not novel nor key points in our results, we decided not to focus on them and modified the text accordingly in lines 129-135.

      (11) Line 110, "with high variation". What does "high variation" mean here? Compared to what? For the two metrics (n cells +ve for each gene and total expression level) can they give an average and the SD? It would be useful to know how many parasites the "average" surface (and core) gene is expressed in, or more precisely for which the RNA is above the limit of detection.

      We refer to the comparison with the expression profile observed for single-copy genes. This point has now been clarified in the text, and we have included the mean and standard deviation for both TcS multigene family genes and single-copy genes in trypomastigotes for both metrics in the Figure 2 legend. The average and distribution of the number of cells in which each gene is detected are shown in Figure 2c and Supplementary Figure 1a. We also added a reference to this panel at the point in the text where the phenomenon is first described.

      (12) Line 134, Figure 2b legend needs more detail - what are num_multigene and z_multigene?

      Please see our response to Reviewer 1, Question 6. We have now added a clarification to the legends of Figure 1 and Supplementary Figure 1.

      (13) Figure 2c, correct the y-axis legend because it implies your values are log10 transformed. Also, it would be useful to have more markers on the y axis so the reader can better estimate the data ranges.

      We thank the reviewer for this observation. We have now corrected the y-axis label and markers.

      (14) If the y-axis of Figure 2D started at 0 instead of 0.8 and if Lorenz curves were provided then the reader would probably get a fuller sense of the expression heterogeneity in the dataset. The legend states the differences are statistically significant but the actual p-values are not shown.

      (15) Line 142-3, more precision is needed on the p-values.

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful suggestion. We agree that Lorenz curves provide a clearer representation of expression heterogeneity than the previous plot. Accordingly, we have replaced the original panel (Figure 2d) with Lorenz curves for the groups under comparison, and have made the same change in Supplementary Figure 1d. In addition, we have included gini index values and p-values for all comparisons in Supplementary Table 2.

      (16) Figure 3, as in Figure 1a it would be useful to add another UMAP plot to show the two trypo subpopulations.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. We have now updated Figure 3 to include a UMAP plot showing the two trypomastigote subpopulations.

      (17) What is the observed proportion of broad vs slender trypomastigote morphologies for Dm28c? To be consistent with the speculation at line 162 then wouldn't it need to be approximately 50-50?

      The proportions of each trypomastigote subpopulation in the DM28c strain are currently unknown. The only available relevant data come from Brener, 1965 (doi.org/10.1080/00034983.1965.11686277), in which this strain was not included. In the strains analyzed in that study, the relative proportions of broad and slender trypomastigote morphologies were highly variable: across seven strains, broad forms ranged from 18.0% to 77.3%, while slender forms ranged from 2.3% to 71.6%. Given this wide variability and the lack of DM28c-specific data, we cannot assume any expected proportion for this strain.

      (18) Line 170, please state how many genes are in the TcS subgroup mentioned here. This is an interesting finding - does this include mostly catalytically active trans-sialidase genes or is it a mixture from across all the subfamilies?

      The TcS subgroup with a high frequency of detection comprises 31 genes, none of which belong to the catalytically active Group I trans-sialidases. Instead, this subgroup includes members of Groups II, III, IV, V, VI, and VIII. This information has been added to Supplementary Table 3 and is now stated in the revised manuscript (lines 227 - 228).

      (19) Line 175-176, "Gene dropouts might favor random patterns of gene family's detection in scRNA-seq experiments, particularly affecting genes with low expression" - I'm not sure if the authors mean the detection of a gene (or not) in an individual parasite is truly random (pure luck) or whether the term stochastic would be more appropriate because they seem to be referring to randomness around a certain threshold of RNA abundance/stability? They go on to rule this out, at least for TcS genes, essentially arguing that they have something resembling an ON or OFF pattern rather than a spectrum of expression levels. This is potentially very important and could advance the field in a major way, but the fact that so many core and ribosomal genes, which 'should' be always ON, cannot be detected in most cells is a concern. A version of Figure 4B for core and ribosomal genes could be informative - do they show a different pattern to TcS?

      Our results reveal a small subset of TcS genes that are frequently detected across cells, a pattern that is not compatible with random detection unless these genes were highly expressed and preferentially captured by random sampling. However, as shown in Figure 4b, many genes expressed at comparable levels are not detected at high frequencies. In line with this, Figure 4c shows that within individual cells, the detected TcS genes exhibit similar expression levels. Finally, we confirmed that this frequently detected subset shows high read counts at the bulk RNA-seq level (Supplementary Figure 2), consistent with the fact that these TcS are frequent in the population even when they are not specially highly expressed within each cell. Taken together, these findings argue against a purely random sampling of TcS genes and support the interpretation that this pattern reflects an underlying biological feature. We agree that further validation will be required. Accordingly, since the initial submission, we have been careful to frame our conclusions conservatively, explicitly noting that dropout remains a limitation of these data that could influence the observed patterns. In the revised version, we have strengthened this point by including a specific statement in the final remarks. Our interpretation is presented as a working hypothesis that is fully compatible with the observations reported here and may be informative for the field. To better reflect this reasoning, we have revised Figure 4b, expanded the discussion, and explicitly included this limitation in the final remarks of the revised manuscript.

      (20) Line 238-9, Add details of removing extracellular epimastigotes after cell infections.

      Only cellular trypomastigotes collected from the supernatant on day 6 were used for the secondary infection, at a 10:1 parasite-to-cell ratio. After 24 hours, the cultures were washed twice with PBS to remove any remaining extracellular parasites. Under these conditions, i.e. using exclusively trypomastigotes, at this infection ratio, and maintaining the cultures in mammalian medium, we do not expect the presence or survival of extracellular epimastigotes. We have included a sentence in the Methods section clarifying this information in the revised version of the manuscript, line 382.

      (21) Line 260, was methanol used to directly resuspend the parasite pellet, or was it resuspended first e.g. in a small volume of PBS?

      As described in lines 250-257 of the original manuscript, parasites were washed and resuspended in DPBS before methanol fixation. Methanol fixation was then carried out according to the 10X Genomics Methanol Fixation Protocol. We have now emphasized this more clearly in the revised text in line 400.

      (22) What was the doublet rate?

      We identified and removed 41 doublets, all belonging to cluster 2, and retained 3,151 singlets for downstream analysis (total cells before removal = 3,192). The resulting doublet rate was 1.28%. We have included a sentence in the Methods section clarifying this information in the revised version of the manuscript, line 439 -440.

      (23) What was the frequency of rRNA and kDNA-derived reads?

      Approximately 4.02% of the reads were derived from kDNA sequences, while 1.10% corresponded to rRNA-derived reads (Author response image 4).

      Author response image 4.

      Percentage of mitochondrial and ribosomal rRNA derived reads.

    1. Author response:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      We thank the reviewer for the thoughtful and detailed evaluation of our manuscript. We are pleased that the continuous-time formulation and its methodological contributions were viewed as elegant and broadly applicable, and that the empirical analyses provide meaningful new insights into neural variability across the visual hierarchy. We appreciate the reviewer’s constructive suggestions and clarifications, which will help us improve the precision, clarity, and scope of the manuscript. Below we respond to each point in turn and outline the revisions we will make.

      (1) Extension to neural populations: We thank the reviewer for this important suggestion. We agree that extending the framework to population recordings is a natural next step. In this work, we focus on single-cell data to establish the model and validate inference. In the revised manuscript, we will expand the Discussion to outline how the framework could be generalized to population activity, for example by incorporating shared latent-variable structure.

      (2) Clarification regarding the Modulated Poisson model: We thank the reviewer for pointing this out. We agree that our description was not sufficiently precise and may have been unclear. The modulated Poisson model introduced in Goris et al. (2014) is indeed a generative process model that can be used to generate spike trains, and we apologize for the inaccurate characterization of this framework. Our intended point was that the original formulation assumes gain is constant within a trial (or counting window) and does not provide a principled mechanism for modeling continuously time-varying gain fluctuations within trials. In the revised manuscript, we will clarify this distinction and revise the relevant passages accordingly. We will also cite and discuss related extensions and analyses in Goris et al. (2018) and Hénaff et al. (2020) to provide a more accurate and complete characterization of prior work.

      (3) Continuous extensions of the Goris model: We thank the reviewer for this helpful clarification. We agree that the Goris model is not limited to homogeneous Poisson spiking and can incorporate a stimulus-dependent, time-varying firing rate within trials. We did not intend to imply otherwise, and we will revise the relevant text to avoid this misunderstanding. Our intended point was that, in formulating continuous-time extensions, we explicitly model the time-varying stimulus drive using a GP prior, as in the CMP framework, and then consider different assumptions about the temporal structure of the gain process, including constant and finely sampled gain. This highlights the distinction between piecewise-constant gain assumptions and the fully continuous gain process introduced in our model. We will clarify this distinction in the revised manuscript. We will also acknowledge related variants explored in Hénaff et al. (2020) and more clearly describe how our formulation differs, including the role of smoothness priors on the stimulus drive and gain processes.

      (4) Continuous-time extension: We thank the reviewer for the positive comment and are pleased that the continuous-time formulation was viewed as elegant.

      (5) Parameter recovery analysis: We thank the reviewer for emphasizing the importance of this result. We agree that demonstrating parameter recoverability is foundational to the paper. In the revised manuscript, we will move the Appendix 3 analysis into the main Results section and clearly illustrate how our inference procedure faithfully recovers the generative parameters in simulation studies.

      (6) Validation of gain–stimulus separation: We thank the reviewer for this insightful suggestion. We agree that verifying that the inferred gain does not capture stimulus-driven structure is an important validation of the model. In the revised manuscript, we will compute the trial-averaged inferred gain, to assess whether it exhibits systematic temporal structure. This analysis will provide an additional check that the partitioning between stimulus drive and gain fluctuations operates as intended.

      (7) Temporal evolution of gain variability: We thank the reviewer for this valuable suggestion. We agree that examining whether gain variability decreases following stimulus onset is an important and relevant analysis. In the revised manuscript, we will compute the temporal evolution of cross-trial gain variability from the inferred gain traces and assess whether a quenching effect is observed after stimulus onset. If present, we will report and illustrate this result.

      (8) Clarification of Baseline Poisson and Poisson-GP models: We thank the reviewer for this careful reading. Yes, this understanding is correct. The Baseline Poisson model uses a stimulus-conditioned PSTH as an estimate of the time-dependent firing rate and includes a Gamma prior to regularize rate estimates in conditions with sparse repeats. The Poisson-GP model retains the same structure but models the time-dependent firing rate using a stimulus-specific Gaussian process prior, which substantially improves goodness-of-fit. In the revised manuscript, we will clarify this description. We will also highlight that Figure 4 – figure supplement 2 illustrates how introducing a GP smoothness prior on the stimulus drive markedly improves model fit, even within the Goris-style model.

      Reviewer 2 (Public review):

      We thank the reviewer for the thoughtful and positive assessment of our work. We are pleased that the model development, empirical analyses, and presentation were found to be clear and rigorous. We appreciate the recognition that the continuous-time formulation meaningfully extends prior variability-partitioning approaches and enables a more precise characterization of how stimulus drive and internal gain dynamics evolve across temporal scales. We are also encouraged that the cross-area analyses and model comparisons were viewed as providing new insights and clear empirical improvements. Below, we address the specific suggestions raised by the reviewer.

      Positioning relative to prior work: Regarding the comment on incremental contribution, we agree that our framework builds directly on earlier variability-partitioning approaches. Our goal was to extend these models to continuous time and to develop a principled inference framework capable of characterizing how gain dynamics evolve across temporal scales. We will further clarify this positioning in the revised manuscript.

      Extension to sub-Poisson variability: We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. We agree that sub-Poisson variability is an important phenomenon observed in neural data. Because the CMP model builds on a Poisson observation model with stochastic gain modulation, it naturally captures Poisson and super-Poisson variability but cannot generate sub-Poisson spike count statistics in its existing form. We will clarify this limitation in the revised manuscript and expand the Discussion to outline potential extensions that could address sub-Poisson variability, such as incorporating spike-history effects, renewal-process models, or alternative count distributions.

    1. Author response:

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      …It is unclear whether there are any systematic changes in preferences over the course of testing that could explain the observed changes in correlation with neural responses, such as changes due to learning (e.g., flavor nutrient conditioning, relief of neophobia), changes in deprivation state, or habituation to/proficiency with the BAT setup.

      For the revision, we will add analysis (including either additional panels for Figure 3 or as a new Figure between what are now Figures 3 & 4) testing the hypothesis that preference changes across testing days are non-random. Concretely, we will test: 1) whether the preference for palatable tastes increase with experience (a result that would make sense given research on neophobia; 2) whether the preference for aversive tastes decrease with experience; and 3) whether absolute consumption of any particular taste changes in a reliable direction from session to session.

      A secondary point is whether any changes in preference are attributed to internal individual versus external contextual factors. Both types of variation (i.e., across individuals and across time within an individual) are mentioned in the introduction, but it is not clear what the authors believe about the nature or neural representation of these sources of variation.

      While we assume that differences between rats are due to internal factors (given the controlled home-cage environment), we can’t be sure that some subtle, subthreshold (for us as observers) factor impacts taste preferences. Similarly, while changes across time within an individual is categorically within the individual, we cannot be sure whether some subtle facet of their experiences determines how preferences change (as opposed to it being purely internal). We will add prose to the Discussion session on this topic—including citation of Hilary Schiff’s recent work showing nurture-related preference changes as part of this new prose.

      With respect to neural data analysis, no individual animal/day data are shown, making it difficult to assess the extent to which differences in correlation match individual differences in preferences and/or changes in preference with time within individuals.

      The revision will include Figure panels (with analysis) showing the relationships between individual neural responses and consumption in the first and last BAT tests for 1-2 representative rats.

      The correlation analysis is also lacking control for the fact that there is a certain degree of "chance" associated with behavioral and neural measures having matching ranks.

      Certainly chance cannot explain our results, which consist mainly of within-rat differences in match (i.e., specific enhancement of that match for the most recent behavioral assessment)—a finding that is all the more surprising given that: 1) 2 weeks separate that behavior test and the electrophysiology session; and that 2) that 2-week gap is only 1-3 days less than the gap using the first behavioral test (that reliably correlates less well with the neural data). Nonetheless, we will add an independent, convergent analysis to the revision, testing whether the observed pattern vanishes when we shuffle the preference ranks in the behavioral data—if the result is based on chance, this shuffling should have no impact on the neural-behavioral match.

      Finally, …it is unclear to what extent changes in correlation may be attributed to overall changes in responsiveness of the neural population.

      We will include a new analysis in the revision testing the hypothesis that the reduction in match between the neural and behavioral rankings reflects changes in neural excitability—spontaneous and taste-driven—between the first and second electrophysiology sessions.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      The manuscript could use additional corollary analyses to provide a more complete picture of the phenomenon. For instance, how many neurons (per animal and in total) have significant correlations with the final BAT patterns? And with the first BAT? Can a time course of such counts be provided? Can some decoding analyses be performed at a single session level to reconstruct a rat's behavioral preference pattern from its neural activity?

      These are all really good ideas. We are in the process of implementing all but the last; we will attempt the last as well, but can’t promise that we have large enough ensembles to provide stable results of such a subtle decoding task (reflecting the last BAT session’s preference pattern significantly better than the first session’s pattern).

      The manuscript could benefit from additional polishing, both in the text as well as in the figures.

      It is being done, on the basis of suggestions made by R2 in the non-public comments.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Without a behavioral measure collected after recording day 1 intraoral exposure, it is not possible to determine whether taste preference was altered by that experience…The authors' conclusion would be strengthened by adding an intervening brief access test between recording days 1 and 2.

      We very much appreciate Reviewer 3’s suggestion, but the primary authors involved in data collection on this project have moved on, and we won’t be able to collect the additional dataset that would be required. Instead, we will soften the conclusion that we reach in the last section, and suggest this experiment as a future direction.

      The current experimental design exposes animals to 3 distinct sets of substances … [that] differ in identity … and concentration. Because palatability is known to be comparative depending on the other substances available and concentration-dependent, this introduces challenges to interpretation, [and] without more clarity, it is difficult to evaluate whether the interaction of different tastes within the sets of stimuli biases the main conclusions.

      This is an interesting point. We hope that some of the work that we are undertaking in response to Reviewers 1 & 2 (see above) will shed light on whether there is any non-randomness in between-session preference changes; such non-randomness would imply that we might want to conclude that preferences change more with one battery than another. But we will perform a more direct test of this hypothesis, breaking the dataset apart and asking whether our phenomena are observed more with one battery than another. If it turns out that the magnitude of the impact of experience does depend on the nature of the taste battery (we predict not, for reasons that are in the manuscript), we shall introduce that complexity into our interpretation, and the Discussion thereof.

      Responses to sweet tastes are not reported in the electrophysiology data. This is seemingly the case because rats given set 1 received no sweet stimulus while rats given set 2 received to 2 distinct sweet tastes. Finally, rats given set 3 did not receive quinine, yet quinine is reported in electrophysiology data.

      We are unsure of the source of this confusion—in every case, the rat received the same tastes in the electrophysiology sessions that were delivered in the BAT preference tests—but we will modify the text to ensure: 1) that panels reflecting data from a single rat (panels that will therefore necessarily include only a subset of possible tastes) are clearly marked as such; and 2) that the nature of which taste batteries were delivered is more explicit.

      The choice of reporting average lick cluster size is problematic because the authors use thirsty rats with 10-second-long trials. Thirsty rats are likely to lick in relatively long clusters, especially for neutral and palatable tastes. If the rat is mid-cluster when the trial ends, the final cluster would be cut off prematurely, resulting in shorter overall average lick cluster size, disproportionately affecting neutral and palatable tastes over aversive tastes.

      We have ourselves been deeply concerned with this issue; we have recently published a paper that includes within it a direct test demonstrating that calculations of lick bout lengths from 10-sec BAT trials result in taste palatability estimates that are identical to (and less noisy than) those generated from more classically-used 15-min ad lib licking. We will cite this paper (Lin, et al., 2026) in the Methods section of the revision, along with text clarifying how we calculated lick clusters. That said, we are also planning to conduct an additional analysis that estimates taste preference after removing these “premature bouts” and will evaluate how this recalculation affects our results.

      Of course, even if 10-sec BAT trial data DIDN’T provide reliable preference measures, the result of clusters being cut short by the end of a trial would be an underestimation of the preference for the palatable tastes (which drive far more licking than aversive tastes and are therefore more likely to be mid-bout at the end of a trial). Such an underestimation would in turn be expected to reduce the observed neural-behavioral correlation. This fact actually highlights the robustness of our findings.

      Canonical palatability rankings may not apply to the concentrations selected in every stimulus set. This is particularly true for set 1, which included two concentrations of citric acid and quinine for the behavior. It is also not clear which concentrations are reported in Figures 3A2 and 3B2. Meanwhile, the concentrations of quinine and citric acid used for electrophysiology are quite low.

      In the revision Methods section, we will explicitly motivate our reasoning behind canonical rankings for each taste battery used (the added text will include citations). We have also added to the Discussion section prose concerning the possible impact of possibly getting those rankings wrong—i.e., the impact is minimal, given that our results are largely driven by differences between rats (and day-to-day differences within rat), and the resultant fact that almost any choice of canonical rankings would poorly reflect the behavior of individual rats on individual days.

    1. Author response:

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors provide extensive immunoreactivity and expression data to map monoaminergic neurotransmitter production sites in Pristionchus pacificus. This nematode is relatively distantly related to the popular model nematode Caenorhabditis elegans, for which such information is already available. They find that dopamine, tyramine, and octopamine are present in the same neurons in both species, but differences are observed for serotonin. This forms the basis for a comparison of serotonergic neurons across 22 nematode species. In addition, they evaluate monoaminergic effects on egg-laying, head movement during reversals, and nictation behavior, to find that monoaminergic control over the latter differs between C. elegans and P. pacificus. This shows that some anatomical flexibility supports similar outcomes, whereas in other cases it is the basis of evolved regulatory differences.

      Strengths:

      The comparative efforts are laudable and valuable, including a thorough revisiting of old data and corrections of what is judged as a historic misannotation. The expected continued value of this work is also appreciated, because nematodes have similar anatomies and behaviors, cellular-resolution data of different species permits the study of functional evolution of neurotransmitter usage in homologous neurons.

      Despite the strong experimental approach, there are some points that require addressing:

      (1) Not all the concepts of the introduction ('feeding behaviors', to a lesser extent also 'evolution of neurotransmitter usage in homologous neurons') are followed up upon in the results or discussion sections.

      We will address the relative treatment of particular topics in the introduction and discussion in a revised version of the article.

      (2) The choice of nematodes ('only' 13 species) may affect what is perceived as ancestral.

      See above regarding ‘13 species’ (actually 22). Most species and genera were specifically selected previously (Loer and Rivard, 2007; Rivard et al., 2010) for broad phylogenetic coverage, representing different species and genera in 4 major clades within ‘clade V’ (Kiontke et al., 2007; Sudhaus, 2011): Anarhabditis (Caenorhabditis, including both the Elegans and Drosophilae species groups), Synrhabditis (Oscheius, Metarhabditis, Reiterina and Rhabditella), Pleiorhabditis (Teratorhabditis, Mesorhabditis, Rhomborhabditis and Pelodera), and Diplogastrids represented by P. pacificus. Among the outgroups to clade V, there are 3 distinct clades represented, each with at least two species and/or genera represented. Therefore, we believe that the determination of an ancestral condition is well-founded. We plan to add this rationale to the revised version to make this clearer.

      (2, continued) Also, identifying their cells based on comparisons with Ce or Ppa identifications only is understandable but mildly risky: there are many cells in the head, and mistakes would go unnoticed until detailed analysis in each species can provide conclusive evidence.

      We agree that there is a mild risk of incorrect identification but believe that appropriate caveats are noted in the text. Furthermore, the recent head EM reconstruction and complete embryonic cell lineage of the P. pacificus (Cook et al., 2025) shows a nearly 1-1 homology correspondence between head neurons (e.g., only a single head neuron is missing in the Ppa head relative to Cel due to altered apoptosis), and a quite high level of conservation of neurite morphology and soma position between Cel and Ppa suggests that identifications are likely correct when examining related nematodes. In cases for which a serotonin-immunoreactive cell is found in the predicted location (and often having apparent associated neurites), its homology to the matching Cel and Ppa cell is the most parsimonious interpretation: otherwise, one cell would have to lose expression and another nearby cell gain it.  

      (3) It is not reported whether the nictation-defective mutants have general locomotion defects; therefore, whether the reported problem is specific to this host-finding behavior or not.

      None of the mutants we tested for nictation behavior, including those that show severe defects in nictation (Ppa-cat-1, Ppa-tph-1, Ppa-tdc-1, Ppa-tbh-1), exhibited noticeable general locomotion defects either as dauers or non-dauers. Further clarification will be provided in a revised version of the article.

      (4) The section on RIP neurons makes sense for Ppa, but not for Ce (dauers in fact have weakened IL2-to-RIP connections) and should be revised. The nictation data also do not support the breadth of the conclusions, which should either be toned down or rephrased as hypothetical.

      We plan to address these concerns in a revised version of the article.

      (5) The discussion mostly reiterates the results, leaving little room for the author's interpretations and opinions. I would suggest reworking in favor of conceptual discussion.

      As noted above, we agree to address the relative treatment of matters in discussion in a revised version of the article.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This paper makes important contributions to our understanding of how nervous systems evolve, with a particular focus on whether changes in neurotransmitter usage within homologous neurons represent a mechanism for evolutionary adaptation without large-scale changes to circuitry. Comparing the predatory nematode P. pacificus with C. elegans, this study systematically examines monoamine-producing neurons, assesses how their neurotransmitter identities differ between homologous neural types, and determines how these differences relate to behavior.

      Strengths:

      The major strength of this work is its breadth, rigor, and data quality. It combines multiple, independent lines of evidence to assign neurotransmitter identity for neurons with homology grounded in lineage, morphology, and connectomics, which is essential for meaningful cross-species comparisons. Additionally, by extending the analysis beyond P. pacificus and C. elegans to other nematodes, the authors convincingly argue that features observed in P. pacificus likely reflect an ancestral state. This depth greatly enhances the significance of the conclusions.

      This work is likely to have a significant impact on the fields of comparative neurobiology and nervous system evolution. It demonstrates a powerful system and approach for linking molecular identity, cell-type homology, circuit context, and behavior across species. The data generated here will be a valuable resource for the community and provide a strong foundation for future mechanistic studies.

      More broadly, the study reinforces the idea that evolutionary change in nervous systems can occur through modulation of chemical signaling within conserved circuits, rather than through complete rewiring. This conceptual framework is likely to influence how researchers think about neural evolution in other systems.

      Weaknesses:

      Given the availability of detailed connectivity information for both species, a more explicit comparison of the local circuit context of key neurons would further strengthen the link between molecular identity and circuit function.

      We plan to address these concerns in a revised version of the article.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The study by Hong, Loer, Hobert, and colleagues is a comprehensive description of monoaminergic neurons in the nematode Pristionchus pacificus. The work used multiple, complementary approaches, including immunostaining and expression of genes involved in neurotransmitter synthesis or transport, to identify neurons that express a monoamine neurotransmitter. Moreover, this study characterized the phenotypes of various mutants to study their organismal function. Extensive comparisons are made to C. elegans, the nematode model that, in a way, anchors the model studied here, and new outgroup species were examined for some features so that the polarity of their evolution could be inferred. Although there is no simple or groundbreaking punchline to distill from the manuscript (i.e., other than some things are the same as in C. elegans, and some things are different), and while the study is basically descriptive in nature, the scope of the project warrants broad attention.

      Strengths:

      This manuscript offers a tremendous resource for those who use this species as a model, which, based on the author list alone, includes many labs. This study sets the bar for what can be done in a "satellite" model system.

      Given the complementarity of approaches used, such as the position of cell bodies, the connectivity and morphology of dendrites, and a previously published atlas of the connectome for this species, the identification of specific neurons (which, as the authors point out, can be easily mistaken) is convincing throughout. Likewise, appropriate caution is observed where neuron identities are ambiguous, e.g., unlabeled cells in Figure 5, or ambiguous identities in other species, as shown in Figure 10. There was a lot of data to unpack in this manuscript, but I could not find any obvious flaws in neuron identification.

      Also, the phenotypic assays were straightforward and informative.

      Weaknesses:

      No serious weaknesses were noted. One minor comment is that in general, I think the Methods could use some additional text to describe what the goal of any given technique was. For example, although there is a description of the HCR protocol in the methods, nowhere does it say what genes this method would be used for. In addition to what is shown in Figure 4, this information should be given in the Methods.

      More detailed methods will be provided in a revised version of the article.

    1. Author response:

      Public reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      (1) We agree that the current design does not allow us to cleanly dissociate whether the beneficial effect of retrieval practice on AC inference under stress reflects a selective enhancement of inferential processing or, instead, stronger memory for the underlying AB and BC premise pairs that supports later inference. We plan to revise the manuscript to remove wording that could be read as claiming that retrieval practice specifically protects inference independently of associative-memory strengthening.

      Our intended interpretation is more modest. As shown in Section 3.2.3, retrieval practice improved direct premise-memory performance, consistent with the well-established testing effect. In the present paradigm, successful AC inference necessarily depends on access to the AB and BC premise associations. Accordingly, strengthened premise memory is not an alternative explanation that can be excluded by our data, but rather a plausible mechanism through which retrieval practice may promote more resilient inference performance under stress.

      Because AC inference in our paradigm necessarily depends on retrieving and linking the AB and BC premise pairs, strengthened premise memory is not merely a competing explanation that can be separated from inference performance in the current dataset. Rather, it is a plausible mechanism through which retrieval practice may support inference, especially under stress. We therefore will revise the manuscript to avoid implying that retrieval practice protects inferential processing independently of associative-memory strengthening, and instead interpret the effect more conservatively as reflecting enhanced premise representations and/or more effective reactivation of bridge information during inference.

      We also agree that the post-inference direct memory test, which used a 2AFC format, provides only a coarse measure of premise-memory strength and allows some proportion of correct responses to arise from guessing. Therefore, restricting analyses to trials in which AB and BC were later answered correctly does not fully guarantee that those trials were supported by strong associative memories. We will acknowledge this limitation explicitly in the manuscript and have tempered our interpretation of these “successfully retrieved” premise trials accordingly. More stringent measures, such as cued recall, confidence-based memory judgments, or other continuous indices of premise-memory strength, would be better suited to this question in future work.

      Finally, we agree that the absence of a retrieval-practice benefit in the non-stress condition does not by itself rule out mediation through strengthened premise memory. Because the retrieval-practice manipulation was introduced in a follow-up study after completion of Study 1, the present dataset was not designed as a single fully crossed factorial experiment. In response to the reviewer’s suggestion, we will add an exploratory mediation analysis testing whether premise-memory performance statistically accounts for the relationship between retrieval practice and inference performance. We will report this analysis cautiously, given that premise memory was assessed using a post-inference 2AFC measure, and we note in the manuscript that a future fully crossed design with more sensitive premise-memory measures will be needed for a stronger test.

      (2) We apologize that the presentation of Figure 4A was not sufficiently clear and may have created the impression of below-chance inference performance. The values shown in Figure 4A do not represent raw 3-alternative forced-choice (3AFC) A-C inference accuracy, for which the theoretical chance level would be 0.33. Instead, Figure 4A plots a normalized inference index, calculated as inference performance relative to direct retrieval performance, to account for individual differences in the availability of the directly learned premise pairs. Therefore, the raw 3AFC chance level is not the appropriate reference for interpreting this measure. To avoid this confusion, we will clarify in the revised manuscript and figure legend that Figure 4A shows a normalized inference index rather than raw inference accuracy.

      (3) We agree that implementing retrieval practice in a separate experiment, rather than within a single 2 × 2 factorial design, limits the strength of the causal inference regarding retrieval practice and reduces our ability to formally test the retrieval practice × stress interaction within one unified design.

      In response, we will revise the manuscript to more explicitly acknowledge this limitation and to temper our interpretation throughout. Specifically, we now avoid overstating retrieval practice as definitively preventing the effects of stress, and instead describe the findings more cautiously as evidence that retrieval practice was associated with attenuation of stress-related inference impairments across experiments. We also will add a limitation statement in the Discussion noting that the current design cannot fully rule out cohort-related confounds and that a fully crossed factorial design will be necessary in future work to provide a more rigorous test of the interaction between retrieval practice and stress.

      At the same time, we have clarified that the two experiments were conducted under closely matched conditions: participants were recruited using the same protocol from the same campus population, demographic characteristics were matched, and both experiments were run in the same laboratory using the same EEG system, task procedures, and experimenter team. We agree, however, that these procedural consistencies reduce but do not eliminate the concern about between-experiment confounds.

      (4) We agree that the absence of a matched re-exposure/restudy control condition limits the mechanistic interpretation of the retrieval-practice effect. In the revised manuscript, we will make this limitation more explicit in the Discussion and temper our conclusions accordingly. Specifically, we clarify that the present design shows that a post-encoding retrieval-practice intervention buffered the impact of acute stress on later inference, but it does not allow us to determine whether this benefit is specific to retrieval practice per se, rather than to additional exposure to the AB and BC associations.

      We also agree that it is important to distinguish whether the effect operates at the level of specific practiced items or reflects a more global participant-level effect. In the current study, however, the retrieval-practice phase in Experiment 2 was implemented as a brief timed free-recall procedure rather than a trial-by-trial cued retrieval task, and the available records do not allow us to reliably link retrieval-practice success for individual associations to specific later AC inference trials. Therefore, we cannot directly compare later inference performance for successfully versus unsuccessfully retrieved items on a trial-by-trial basis.

      To address this issue as far as possible with the current dataset, we instead plan to conduct an additional item-level robustness analysis using mixed-effects models that accounted for variability across ABC associations. Specifically, we tested whether the critical stress-by-retrieval-practice effect remained after modeling triad-level variability, and whether there was evidence that this effect differed substantially across triads. This analysis does not provide a direct test of whether successfully retrieved items benefit more than unsuccessfully retrieved items, but it does help assess whether the observed effect is broadly distributed across associations or driven by only a small subset of items.

      (5) We agree that our current decoding approach does not justify a strong claim of item-specific reinstatement of a unique bridge memory. The classifier was trained to discriminate stimulus categories (faces vs. buildings) in the independent localizer and then applied during the inference phase. Therefore, the present analysis is better interpreted as indexing reactivation of bridge-related category information, rather than reinstatement of an item-specific episodic representation.

      Importantly, however, we believe this signal remains theoretically informative for the inferential process examined here. In our design, the bridge element B belonged to one of the trained categories, and the classifier was applied during the cue period when no face or building stimulus was physically present. Thus, successful decoding in this time window suggests that task-relevant bridge-related information was re-expressed online during inference, rather than reflecting concurrent perceptual processing. At the same time, we agree that, because only two categories were used, the decoding analysis cannot fully dissociate bridge-related category reactivation from broader category-level retrieval, strategic task differences, or attentional contributions.

      To address this concern, we plan to revise the manuscript in three ways. First, we will soften the interpretation throughout the Results and Discussion to avoid claims of item-specific bridge-memory reinstatement. Second, we now refer to the decoding effect more conservatively as bridge-related or category-level mnemonic reactivation during inference. Third, we have added an explicit limitation stating that the current design does not allow us to distinguish item-specific episodic reinstatement from category-level reactivation, and that future work using more fine-grained representational analyses and/or a larger stimulus set will be needed to resolve this issue more directly.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      (1) We agree with this important point. The inference task was scheduled to begin approximately 20 minutes after stress onset based on prior human stress literature, with the intention of probing a time window commonly associated with glucocorticoid effects. However, as the reviewer notes, this period may also still reflect residual adrenergic/SAM influences. Because salivary cortisol was not collected due to the COVID-19-related safety protocol, we cannot disentangle the relative contributions of glucocorticoid and adrenergic responses to the observed stress-related effects on inference and neural reactivation. We will revise the manuscript to make this limitation more explicit in the Discussion and to avoid attributing the effects to a specific physiological component of the stress response.

      (2) In the revised manuscript, we will add asterisks (or equivalent significance annotations) to Figures 4 and 6 to improve clarity and readability.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      (1) We thank the reviewer for highlighting this important reporting issue. We agree that the number of trials contributing to the behavioral and EEG analyses should be reported more explicitly, particularly because inference performance was analyzed in relation to direct retrieval performance and because direct retrieval differed across experiments.

      In the revised manuscript, we will report, for each group and experiment, the number of trials presented in the AC inference phase, the number of trials retained for the behavioral analyses, and the number of successfully retrieved direct-memory trials in the AB and BC tasks. These values will be summarized in the revised Results section and in Supplementary Tables.

      To directly address the reviewer’s concern, we will also compared trial counts across groups/experiments and evaluated whether differences in direct retrieval performance could account for the inference and EEG effects. To further address the concern about potential unequal trial numbers, we plan to repeat the analyses such as trial-count-matched subsets analyses to see whether results remained qualitatively unchanged.

      (2) We thank the reviewer for this important comment. We agree that our original title and some parts of the manuscript used language that was stronger than warranted by the data. Our results show that rapid reactivation of the bridge element is associated with successful inference and is modulated by stress and retrieval practice, but they do not by themselves establish a causal mechanistic role for reactivation. We therefore plan to revise the title and softened the relevant wording throughout the manuscript to better reflect the correlational nature of this evidence.

      Specifically, we plan to change the title from “Retrieval practice prevents stress-induced inference impairment by restoring rapid memory reactivation” to “for example, Retrieval practice prevents stress-induced inference impairment and preserves rapid bridge-item memory reactivation” We also revised the Abstract, Results, and Discussion to replace stronger mechanistic wording such as “prevents,” “restoring,” and “essential neural mechanism” with more cautious phrasing such as “buffers” or “attenuates,” “preserves” or “is associated with,” and “neural correlate” or “candidate process,” as appropriate. This revision will led us to temper the overall interpretation of the EEG findings: rather than claiming that reactivation is the mechanism by which retrieval practice prevents stress-related inference deficits, we now conclude that rapid bridge-item reactivation is a neural correlate of successful inference that is sensitive to stress and enhanced by retrieval practice.

      We also appreciate the reviewer’s concern regarding the use of one-tailed follow-up tests and the absence of multiple-comparison correction. With respect to the one-tailed t-tests, these follow-up comparisons were conducted because the relevant hypotheses were directional a priori. Based on prior work and our theoretical framework, we specifically predicted that acute stress would impair inference-related performance and neural reactivation, and that retrieval practice would mitigate these effects. The follow-up tests were therefore not exploratory post-hoc comparisons, but planned tests used to decompose the significant omnibus effects in the predicted direction. For this reason, we considered one-tailed testing appropriate for these comparisons.

      Similarly, we did not apply an additional multiple-comparison correction to these planned follow-up tests because they were limited in number, theory-driven, and conducted to evaluate specific directional predictions rather than to search broadly across many possible contrasts. Importantly, our interpretation does not depend on any isolated post-hoc comparison, but on the consistency of the results across behavioral inference measures, neural decoding of bridge-item reactivation, and theta-band analyses. We have revised the manuscript to make this rationale clearer and to ensure that the follow-up results are interpreted in the context of the full pattern of evidence.

      (3) We agree that, in the previous version, parts of the manuscript were not structured clearly enough, which may have made it difficult for readers to follow the logic of the study and the sequence of analyses without moving back and forth across sections. In the revised manuscript, we will reorganize the presentation to improve the overall narrative flow and readability. Specifically, we plan to clarify the study logic and analysis sequence, strengthened transitions between sections, and revised the relevant text in line with the #reviewer3’s detailed suggestions.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      We thank the reviewers and editors for their thoughtful comments, which substantially improved the quality and clarity of our manuscript. We have attempted to address each major concern with either new experiments or significant textual revisions.

      Reviewer 1 noted that “this research is conducted exclusively in HEK293 cells… including at least one additional cell line would significantly strengthen the main findings.” To directly address this concern, we repeated our RAB1A/B double-knockdown experiments in H4 neuroglioma cells, which endogenously express a tandem fluorescent-tagged LC3B reporter. Using flow cytometry to quantify autophagic flux, we confirmed that RAB1 depletion in H4 cells recapitulates the flux defects observed in HEK293 cells, thereby validating the generality of our findings across distinct lineages.

      To validate the robustness of the ATG2 DKO phenotype and the localization of ARFGAP1-positive membranes, we acquired an ATG2 double knockout HeLa cell line. We confirmed the presence of the characteristic large ATG2-deficient PAS compartment in HeLa cells, and the recruitment of ARFGAP1 membranes, but note that ARFGAP1 displays a solid distribution through the compartment in these cells, in contrast to the more peripheral enrichment observed in HEK293 cells. These data are now included and discussed in the revised manuscript.

      Multiple reviewers asked for greater clarity around the interaction between ATG2A and RAB1A. Although our original data showed that these proteins co-immunoprecipitate in cells, we had not established whether their association was direct. In response, we attempted in vitro co-immunoprecipitations from purified components.  As we could not detect interactions in this simplified system, we now speculate that the ATG2A–RAB1A interaction is indirect. This clarification is now incorporated into the results section.

      Multiple reviewers also raised questions regarding the nature of the membranes recruiting ARFGAP1 and the potential relationship to Arf1 and Golgi trafficking. In particular, Reviewer 3 asked: “(5) What about Arf1? … one would predict that Arf1 does not localize to these structures and does not affect ATG2A function.” To examine whether ARFGAP1 recruitment depends on Golgi integrity or Arf1-regulated trafficking, we perturbed the Golgi using three mechanistically distinct methods: Brefeldin A, mitotic entry, and SidM expression, each of which dissolves Golgi architecture. In each condition, ARFGAP1 localization to the enlarged PAS compartment in ATG2 DKO cells was unchanged. These results indicate that ARFGAP1 recruitment is independent of Golgi structure and provide indirect support for the notion that Arf1 does not participate in this process. Reviewer 3 also asked: “Is the curvature-sensitive region of ARFGAP1 required for its co-localization with ATG2A?” To address this, we generated ARFGAP1 mutants lacking either GAP catalytic activity or the ALPS curvature-sensing domain. When expressed in ATG2 DKO cells, all mutants retained full recruitment to the PAS compartment. Thus, neither GAP activity nor ALPS-mediated curvature sensing is required for ARFGAP1 localization in this context.

      Response to Reviewer 3 -“(2) Figure 3A/B: … is there another tool/assay to validate this result?”—we quantified autophagic flux following SAR1B(H79G) overexpression using the flow-cytometry tandem-fluorescent LC3 assay. These experiments confirmed that SAR1B(H79G) causes only a modest reduction in autophagic flux, consistent with partial inhibition of COPII, thereby supporting our original interpretation.

      We also took steps to improve the integration of our findings with prior literature. Reviewer 2 requested that we strengthen the manuscript by incorporating studies on ERES–ERGIC remodeling (“It would strengthen the manuscript to discuss previous studies…”). We now cite and discuss the studies corresponding to PMIDs 34561617 and 28754694, aligning our observations with mechanistic models of early secretory pathway remodeling. More broadly, Reviewer 1 commented that our discussion “overlooks some important aspects,” and Reviewer 3 asked, “Are the membranes to which ATG2A is recruited a form of ERGIC?” In response, we substantially rewrote the discussion, expanding our integration of existing literature and explicitly addressing models in which ATG2A acts at an ERGIC-derived membrane.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      (1) I found the bigger picture analysis to be lacking. Let us take stock: in other work, during active cognition, including at least one study from the Authors, TDLM shows significance sequenceness. But the evidence provided here suggests that even very strong localizer patterns injected into the data cannot be detected as replay except at implausible speeds. How can both of these things be true? Assuming these analyses are cogent, do these findings not imply something more destructive about all studies that found positive results with TDLM?

      Our focus here is on advancing methodology. Given the diversity of tasks and cognitive states in the TDLM literature, replay could exceed detection thresholds under specific conditions—especially when true event durations align with short analysis windows. While a comprehensive re-analysis of prior datasets is beyond our scope, we agree a concise synthesis can strengthen the paper.

      The previous TDLM literature uses a diverse set of tasks and addresses a broad spectrum of cognitive constructs/processes. As we acknowledge, it is perfectly possible that replay bursts in short time windows are well detectable by TDLM. However, we acknowledge that some commentary on this is warranted and have added the following paragraph to the discussion that addresses “improving TDLMs sensitivity”:

      “Finally, what do our simulations imply for the broader MEG replay literature? Our implementation successfully detects replay when boundary conditions are met, as shown in the simulation. But sensitivity depends critically on high fidelity between the analysis window and the density of replay events. A systematic evaluation of these conditions as they apply to prior studies remains beyond the scope of the current paper. Instead, our focus is on delineating boundary conditions that we hope will motivate conduct of power analyses in future work as well as inclusion of simulations that approximate realistic experimental conditions.”

      (2) All things considered, TDLM seems like a fairly 'vanilla' and low-assumption algorithm for finding event sequences. It is hard to see intuitively what the breaking factor might be; why do the authors think ground truth patterns cannot be detected by this GLM-based framework at reasonable densities?

      We agree with the overall sentiment of the referee. Our intuition is that one of the principal shortcomings of the method relates to spurious sequenceness induced by unknown factors at baseline, and poor transfer of the decoder to other modalities. and have a rough understanding of how they occur, we are currently not in a position to identify their nature. Note that we believe that these confounders are not exclusive to TDLM but are potentially threatening to all kinds of sequenceness analysis of longer time series that rely on decoders. Indeed, we suspect that classifier training is another bottleneck, as we don’t know the exact nature of the representations that are replayed, including the degree of overlap there is with a commonly used visual localizer. That said, this is not of relevance for the simulation in so far as we insert patterns that exceed the pattern strength in the localizer.

      Finally, a potential major drawback is the permutation test for significance testing. As the original authors of TDLM have noted, the current test which permutes states is overly conservative. It measures fixed effects and as it only considers the group level mean it is accordingly easily biased by individual outliers. This we have tried to account for by z-scoring sequenceness scores. We have also conferred on this with some of the authors of TDLM and discussed a yet unpublished method that aims to address this exact issue. The proposed new method uses a sign-flip permutation test at a group level and therefore implements a random-effects model of the data. This significance test has markedly increased power while still controlling for FWER. However, while we show in our power analysis that the new method is indeed more sensitive, it does not materially change the interpretation of the data. We have included this novel method in the paper and added it into the main analysis and most of the simulations.

      (3) Can the authors sketch any directions for alternative methods? It seems we need an algorithm that outperforms TDLM, but not many clues or speculations are given as to what that might look like. Relatedly, no technical or "internal" critique is provided. What is it about TDLM that causes it to be so weak?

      We believe there are several shortcomings and bottlenecks within TDLM that need to be evaluated and improved. While we highlight these issues in the discussion section titled “Improving TDLMs sensitivity,” we agree that we should provide a clearer outline of its current shortcomings. We have now added to the discussion to expand on that we think needs improvement (‘fixed time lag’) and also add a summary statement at the end of the relevant paragraph to recap the main issues needed for an improved successor method. The new paragraphs read:

      “Lastly, there are certain assumptions that TDLM makes that might not hold (see Methods Study II): Current implementations look for a fixed time lag that is the same across all participants and between all reactivation events. If time lags differ across participants, TDLM will fail to find them. Similarly, TDLM assumes a fixed sequence order and is not robust against slight within-sequence permutations or in-sequencemissing reactivation events. However, from other data sources., such as hippocampal place cell recordings, it is known that such permutations can occur where some states are skipped or fail to decode during replay. Similarly, it is assumed that each reactivation event lasts between 10-30 milliseconds, but the true temporal evolution of reactivation measured by TDLM is currently unknown. Future method development might focus on improving invariance to these assumptions.

      […]

      In summary, there are several areas where TDLM might be improved, including a restriction in its search space, improvement in classifiers, a validation of localizer representation transfer to other domains (e.g. memory representations), and the extension of TDLM to render it more robust against violations of its core assumptions.”

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Weaknesses:

      The sample size is small (n=21, after exclusions), even for TDLM studies (which typically have somewhere between 25-40 participants). The authors address this somewhat through a power analysis of the relationship between replay and behavioural performance in their simulations, but this is very dependent on the assumptions of the simulation. Further, according to their own power analysis, the replay-behaviour correlations are seriously underpowered (~10% power according to Figure 7C), and so if this is to be taken at face value, their own null findings on this point (Figure 3C) could therefore just reflect under sampling as opposed to methodological failure. I think this point needs to be made more clearly earlier in the manuscript.

      We agree with the referee that our sample is smaller than previous studies due to participant exclusion criteria. However, the take-away message from our behavioural simulation and bootstrapping is that even with larger sample sizes, it is difficult to overcome baseline fluctuations of sequenceness, even if very strong replay patterns were detectable and sample sizes were of similar size to that of previous studies. Therefore, we are not convinced that that our null findings are fully explained by the smaller sample size compared to that of previous studies, Additionally, we show that even within the range of other studies, similar power would have been expected (Supplement Figure 11). However, it is true that in general null findings can be explained by under-sampling, under the assumption that an effect is present. To amplify this point, we have added the following to the Figure 3C:

      “[…]. NB, however, as our simulation shows, correlations of sequenceness with behavioural markers are likely to be underpowered and occur only with very high replay rates or much higher sample size. See our simulation discussion for a more detailed explanation on how correlations may be inherently biased, where fluctuations in baseline sequenceness overshadow individual scaling with behavioural markers.”

      Furthermore, we have added the following paragraph to the discussion to highlight this point and refer to a power analysis we have now added to the supplement (see next answer):

      “Sample sizes in previous TDLM literature usually range between 20 to 40 participants. A bootstrap power analysis shows that even at those sample sizes, power would remain low unless unrealistically high replay rates are assumed (Supplement Figure 11). Our bootstrap simulation shows that a correlation analysis between sequenceness and behaviour would in these cases be drastically underpowered, even under an assumption of high replay densities.”

      Finally, we have added a remark about the sample size to the limitations section, as naturally, an increase in sample size would yield higher power:

      “Finally, while initially planning for thirty participants, due to exclusion criteria, our study featured fewer participants than most previous studies using TDLM (i.e. usually 25-40, but 21 in our study). While we are confident that our simulation results hold under these sample sizes, as sample sizes of other studies show comparable power to ours (Fehler! Verweisquelle konnte nicht gefunden werden.), we cannot fully rule out a possibility that our null-findings are explained by a lack in power alone.”

      Relatedly, it would be very useful if one of the recommendations that come out of the simulations in this paper was a power analysis for detecting sequenceness in general, as I suspect that the small sample size impacts this as well, given that sequenceness effects reported in other work are often small with larger sample sizes. Further, I believe that the authors' simulations of basic sequenceness effects would themselves still suffer from having a small number of subjects, thereby impacting statistical power. Perhaps the authors can perform a similar sort of bootstrapping analysis as they perform for the correlation between replay and performance, but over sequenceness itself?

      We agree with the referee that this, in principle, is a great idea. However, the way that significance thresholds are calculated poses a conceptual problem for such an analysis: as for significance threshold we are defining the maximum sequenceness value across all participants, all time lags and all permutations. This sequenceness value is compared against the mean of all participants, disregarding the standard deviation. This maximum threshold would not change if we bootstrapped some of our samples. Additionally, the 95% would also not change significantly. To illustrate this point, we have added this analysis to the supplement, as Supplement Figure 10. However, the new sign-flip permutation test we now include allows for such a comparison, as it takes variance between participants into account as well! We have included all three variants of the power analysis and the figure description now reads:

      “Supplement Figure 11 Power analysis of sequenceness significance for bootstrapped samples sizes. A) Powermap for state-permutation thresholds. However, here the bootstrap approach suffers from a conceptual problem: significance thresholds are defined by the permutation maximum and/or 95-percentile of the maximums across all sequence-permutations across participants. If we resample bootstrap-participants from our existing pool, the maximum thresholds computed will remain relatively stable across resampled participants, as it only compares against the mean and disregards the standard deviation. B) The newly presented statistical approach is significantly more sensitive at higher sample sizes. Note that even then, 80% power is only reached with replay density of higher than 50 min-1 at a sample size of 60 participants. Additionally, the sign-flip permutation test assumes that the mean is at zero. As we observed a non-zero mean due to spurious oscillations, we subtracted the mean sequenceness of the baseline condition from each participant before permuting to achieve a null distribution with mean zero, as otherwise, we would have found significant replay effects in the baseline condition at increasing sample size. Nevertheless, due to the higher sensitivity, the new sign-flip test is recommended over the previous sequence-permutation-based test. Colours indicate the power from 0 to 1 for different bootstrapped sample sizes and densities. 80% power thresholds are outlined in black.”

      The task paradigm may introduce issues in detecting replay that are separate from TDLM. First, the localizer task involves a match/mismatch judgment and a button press during the stimulus presentation, which could add noise to classifier training separate from the semantic/visual processing of the stimulus. This localizer is similar to others that have been used in TDLM studies, but notably in other studies (e.g., Liu, Mattar et al., 2021), the stimulus is presented prior to the match/mismatch judgment. A discussion of variations in different localizers and what seems to work best for decoding would be useful to include in the recommendations section of the discussion.

      We agree and thank the referee for raising this issue. Note, we acknowledge we forgot to mention that these trials were excluded from classifier training. Our rationale of presenting the oddball during stimulus presentation, and not thereafter, was an assumption that by first presenting the audio and then the visual cue we would create more generalized representations that would be less modalitydependent. However, importantly, we excluded all trials that were oddballs from localizer training. Therefore we assume that this particular design choice will not greatly affect the decoder training. If some motor-preparation activity is present during the stimulus presentation, then it should be present equally across all trials and hence be ignored by the classifier as we balanced the transitions between images. We now added this information to the main text:

      “In each trial, a word describing the stimulus was played auditorily, after which the corresponding stimulus was shown. In ~11% of cases, there was a mismatch between word and image (oddball trials), and these trials were excluded from the localizer training.” Additionally in the methods section: “These oddball-trials were excluded from all further analysis and decoder training.”

      Nevertheless, we agree that the extant variety in localizer designs is underdiscussed where many assumptions of classifier training are not, as yet, fully validated. We have added a sentence highlighting different oddball paradigms to the section on the discussion of localizers and also add a summary statement with recommendations. The passage now reads:

      “Additionally, a wide variety of oddballs has been used (e.g. upside-down, scrambled, or mismatched images, cues presented visually, as words, auditorily, etc), and at this time it is unclear if these affect the representations that the classifier learns [...] In summary, we would expect a multimodal categorical localizer, and a classifier that isn’t trained on a specific timepoint, to generalize best.”

      Second, and more seriously, I believe that the task design for training participants about the expected sequences may complicate sequence decoding. Specifically, this is because two images (a "tuple") are shown together and used for prediction, which may encourage participants to develop a single bound representation of the tuple that then predicts a third image (AB -> C rather than A -> B, B -> C). This would obviously make it difficult to i) use a classifier trained on individual images to detect sequences and ii) find evidence for the intended transition matrix using TDLM. Can the authors rule out this possibility?

      We thank the reviewer for raising a possibility we have not considered! While there is some evidence that a single bound representation would have overlap with its constituents (especially before long term-consolidation) and therefore be detectable by the classifiers, we acknowledge the possibility that individual classifiers would fail to be sensitive to such a compound representation. In fact we find in the retrieval data some evidence for a combined replay of representations (where representations are replayed seemingly at the same time, see Kern 2024). We have added such a possibility to the interims-discussion of Study 1 as a qualification . However, this does not change the results or interpretation of our simulation which we consider is a key message of the paper.

      The relevant segment in the discussion section now reads:

      “Additionally, given that the stimuli were presented in combined triplets, participants may have formed a singular representation of associated items and subsequently replayed these (e.g., AB→C), instead of replaying item-by-item transitions (A→B→C). Under such a scenario, a classifier trained on individual items may fail to detect these newly formed bound representations, particularly if they diverge strongly from the single-item patterns. In our previous study where we address retrieval (Kern et al., 2024) we found that states were to varying extent co-reactivated, yet classifiers trained on single items retained sensitivity to detect these combined reactivation events. Consistent with this, prior work suggests that unified representations retain overlap with their constituent item representations (Dennis et al., 2024; Liang et al., 2020), however, there’s also evidence that different brain regions are involved if representational unitization occurs (Staresina & Davachi, 2010), potentially confusing classifiers. Therefore, we cannot exclude that rest-related consolidation replays engendered unitized representations that were insufficiently captured by our singleitem classifiers.“

      Participants only modestly improved (from 76-82% accuracy) following the rest period (which the authors refer to as a consolidation period). If the authors assume that replay leads to improved performance, then this suggests there is little reason to see much taskrelated replay during rest in the first place. This limitation is touched on (lines 228-229), but I think it makes the lack of replay finding here less surprising. However, note that in the supplement, it is shown that the amount of forward sequenceness is marginally related to the performance difference between the last block of training and retrieval, and this is the effect I would probably predict would be most likely to appear. Obviously, my sample size concerns still hold, and this is not a significant effect based on the null hypothesis testing framework the authors employ, but I think this set of results should at least be reported in the main text.

      We disagree that an absence or presence of replay might be inferred from an absolute memory enhancement. While consolidation can lead to absolute improvement of performance in, for example, motor memory domains one formulation is that in declarative learning tasks replay stabilizes latent memory traces, and in such a scenario would not necessarily lead to a boosted performance. While many declarative consolidation studies report an increase of performance compared to a control condition (i.e. without a consolidation window), this does not necessarily entail an absolute performance increase, as replay might just act to protect against loss of memory traces. Therefore, the modest increase we observe does not inference as to the presence of absence of replay absent a proper control condition.

      We did expect to find a correlation between replay and individual behavioural. Indeed, a weak correlation with performance and sequenceness can be detected. However, as we also show any such correlation is overshadowed by baseline fluctuations in sequenceness such that its overall validity is questionable, even under very high replay rates. We are therefore circumspect about this correlation, even if it was significant. Therefore, in the discussion, we chose to refrain from putting much focus on this correlation. Nevertheless, we do add a short statement to the corresponding figure label, discussing this precise issue. The segment now reads:

      “While we found a non-significant relation between a memory performance enhancement and post-learning forward sequenceness we are cautious not to overinterpret these results. As in the section “Correlation with behaviour only present at high replay speeds” the noted correlational measure oscillates heavily with baseline sequenceness fluctuations, and any true replay effect is likely to be overshadowed by such fluctuations.”

      I was also wondering whether the authors could clarify how the criterion over six blocks was 80% but then the performance baseline they use from the last block is 76%? Is it just that participants must reach 80% within the six blocks *at some point* during training, but that they could dip below that again later?

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting this point: The first block wherein participants reached >80% ended the learning blocks. After a maximum of six blocks the learning session was ended regardless of performance. Therefore, some participants’ learning blocks were ended after six blocks and without them reaching a performance of 80%.. While we described this in the Methods section, it was missing from the Results Study I section, which now contains:

      “[...] Participants then learned triplets of associated items according to a graph structure. Within the learning session, participants performed a maximum of six learning blocks, but the session was stopped if participants reached 80% memory performance (criterion learning,, up to a memory performance criterion of 80% (see Methods for details)”

      The Figure 2 description now contains

      “[...] Participants’ completed up to six blocks of learning trials. After reaching 80% in any block, no more learning blocks were performed (criterion learning) [...]”

      Lastly, there was a mistake in the Behavioural results section, which stated “All thirty participants, except one, [..] to criterion of 80%.” This is an error. In our preregistration, we defined to only include participants that successfully learned anything at all above chance. Here,we meant that only one participant failed to reach a criterion that we defined as “successful learning”. We fixed it and it now reads

      “with an accuracy above 50% (which we preregistered beforehand as an exclusion criterion for “successful learning above chance”).”

      Additionally, we have noted this for clarity in the methods section and excuse this mistake:

      “Additionally, as successful above-chance learning was necessary for the paradigm, we ensured all remaining participants had a retrieval performance of at least 50% (one participant had to be excluded, but was already excluded due to low decoding performance).”

      Because most of the conclusions come from the simulation study, there are a few decisions about the simulations that I would like the authors to expand upon before I can fully support their interpretations. First, the authors use a state-to-state lag of 80ms and do not appear to vary this throughout the simulations - can the authors provide context for this choice? Does varying this lag matter at all for the results (i.e., does the noise structure of the data interact with this lag in any way?)

      This was a deliberate choice but we acknowledge the reasoning behind this was not detailed in our initial submission. We chose a lag of 80 millisecond for three reasons: first, it is distant from the 9-11 Hz alpha oscillations we observed in our participants and does not share a harmonic with the alpha rhythm; second, we wanted to get a clear picture of the effect of simulated replay that is as isolated as possible from spurious sequenceness confounders present in the baseline condition. Thus, we chose a lag in which the sequenceness score was close to zero in the baseline condition; thirdly , in this revision, we subtracted the mean sequenceness value of the baseline such that any simulation effects would start, on average, at zero sequenceness. In this way, we could attribute any increase in sequenceness to the experimentally inserted replay, that was independent of spurious oscillations. Finally (but less importantly), as we observed that a correlation of sequenceness with behaviour was fluctuated strongly, for the reason detailed above, we chose a lag in which a correlation was as close as possible to zero. If we had not chosen a lag that adhered to these conditions, we were at risk of measuring simulated replay plus spurious sequenceness confounders.

      We have added a sentence to the main text detailing this justification:

      “We chose this timepoint (80 msec state to state lag) as its sequenceness value was close to zero in the baseline condition as well as being distant to the observed alpha rhythms of the participants (which varied between ~9-11 Hz). Additionally, we subtracted the mean sequenceness value of the baseline at 80 milliseconds lag such that any simulation effects would, on average, start at zero sequenceness “

      Additionally, we now add a more detailed explanation to the methods section.

      “This time lag (80 msec) was chosen in order to isolate precisely an effect of the experimentally inserted sequenceness. Thus, we chose a lag at which the mean baseline sequenceness was close to zero and where the correlation with behaviour was low. Additionally, we subtracted the mean sequenceness value (at 80 milliseconds) at baseline from the specific lag recorded for each participant, such that simulation effects would be initialized at zero sequenceness on average enabling any effects to be attributed purely to inserted replay. Additionally, we excluded time lags too close to the alpha rhythms of participants (which varied between ~9-11 Hz) or lags which would have a harmonic with the rhythm.”

      Second, it seems that the approach to scaling simulated replays with performance is rather coarse. I think a more sensitive measure would be to scale sequence replays based on the participants' responses to *that* specific sequence rather than altering the frequency of all replays by overall memory performance. I think this would help to deliver on the authors' goal of simulating an "increase of replay for less stable memories" (line 246).

      The referee makes an excellent point and our simulations could be rendered more realistic by inserting the actual tuples that participants answered correctly. If we understand the point correctly, there are two different ways replay might be impacted by performance: First, we can conjecture that there is greater replay if memory performance is not saturated. Second, replay only occurs for content that has actually been encoded!

      The main reasons why we chose to simulate the entire sequence being replayed for each participant is based on the following. TDLM is implemented such that the amount of replay alone is relevant, and actual transitions are not affecting the results beyond noise. Under the assumption that class-specific classifiers perform equally well, simulating A->B, B->C or simulating A->B, A->B yields equivalent results. However, results can differ if this assumption is violated. By drawing from the entire space of classes we insert, we minimize the risk of some classifiers being worse than others for some participants. For example, if we simulated only A->B for some participant instead of the whole sequence, and by chance classifier A performs suboptimally, we would then introduce additional unwanted variance into our results.

      Secondly, from our reading of the literature we infer that replay is increased generally (i.e. density of learning-specific replay is increased) for less stable memories. However, we do not have indicators of memory strength, but only a binary “remembered or not”. As TDLM is invariant to the actual transitions being replayed and only indexes the number of transitions, we chose to ignore which transitions we insert and only scaled the amount of replay.

      We have added an analysis to the Appendix that discusses this specific aspect of our study where we show that results are equivalent if we simulate replay of “A->B B->C C->D” or only “A->B A->B A->B A->B”. As we do not know how replay density interacts with memory trace stability, we opted to leave the current simulation as is. The corresponding paragraph and figure description now read:

      “From literature we know that replay is increased after learning and that less stable memories are replayed more often. We simulated this effect by scaling our replay density inversely with performance. However, for simplicity, in our simulation, we inserted sampled transitions from all valid transitions given by the graph structure, i.e., the following transitions were valid: However, this meant that some participants would have transitions inserted that they didn’t actually remember. To show that this would not change results, we simulated two scenarios: In the full sequence scenario, all valid graph transitions are inserted (i.e. all participant’s replay is sampled from 'A->B, B->C, C->D, D->E, E->F, F->G, G->E, E->H, H->I, I->B, B->J, J->A'). In the second scenario (memorized transitions) we only replayed transitions that the participant actually retrieved correctly during the post-resting state testing sessions (i.e. a participant’s replay would have been sampled from ‘A->B, B->C, G->E, E->H, H>I’, if those were the ones he remembered). In both scenarios, the number of events is kept constant. The results are equivalent as can be seen in Appendix A Figure 3. NB this only holds under the assumptions that classifiers are equally good at decoding each class.”

      […]

      “TDLM is insensitive towards which transitions are replayed and only sensitive to how many transitions are detected in total. Here we simulate transitions either sampled from the full graph (light orange/green) or participant-specific transitions of trials that participants correctly remembered (dark orange/green). Shaded areas denote the standard error across participants.”

      On the other hand, I was also wondering whether it is actually necessary to use the real memory performance for each participant in these simulations - couldn't similar goals (with a better/more full sampling of the space of performance) be achieved with simulated memory performance as well, taking only the MEG data from the participant?

      The decision to use real memory performance is indeed arbitrary. We could have also used randomly sampled values. However, as we wanted to understand our nullresults better we opted to use real performance to adhere as close as possible to the findings we previously reported. Using uniformly sampled memory performance would be less explanatory w.r.t to our actual results of the resting state data that are reported in the first study we report in the manuscript (Study I).

      Nevertheless, our current implementation already presents an approach that samples the entire performance range for the sub-analysis focusing on the correlation with behaviour. Here, in the section on “best-case”-scenario, we implement this such that it spans factors from 1 to 0 (i.e., a participant with 100% performance gets a replay scale factor of 0 and hence no replay simulated, and the worst performing participant with 50% performance has a replay rate multiplied by 1). We scale the amount of replay with this factor. As a correlation is invariant to linear scaling, statistically this is equivalent to stretching the performance distribution from 0 to 100%. We have added a sentence to the methods to provide further focus on this point:

      “To assess how performance might affect replay in our specific dataset, we chose to use the original participants’ performance values instead of uniformly sampling the performance space (which ranged from 50 to 100%). However, for the correlation analysis, we additionally added a “best-case” scenario, in which we scale replay from 0 to 1, an approach that is statistically equivalent to scaling values to the full space of possible performance (0 to 100%) (see Results Study II: Simulation).”

      Finally, Figure 7D shows that 70ms was used on the y-axis. Why was this the case, or is this a typo?

      Thanks, this is indeed a typo, we fixed it.

      Because this is a re-analysis of a previous dataset combined with a new simulation study on that data aimed at making recommendations about how to best employ TDLM, I think the usefulness of the paper to the field could be improved in a few places. Specifically, in the discussion/recommendation section, the authors state that "yet unknown confounders" (line 295) lead to non-random fluctuations in the simulated correlations between replay detection and performance at different time lags. Because it is a particularly strong claim that there is the potential to detect sequenceness in the baseline condition where there are no ground-truth sequences, the manuscript could benefit from a more thorough exploration of the cause(s) of this bias in addition to the speculation provided in the current version.

      We are currently working on a theoretical basis to explain these spurious sequenceness confounders in the baseline condition. Indeed, in our preliminary work, in certain contexts we can induce significant sequenceness in the absence of any replay signal during baseline. However, this work is at an early stage and we still have some conceptional problems to solve before we are confident enough with these data. We believe at present it would be premature to add these data to the current manuscript. Nevertheless, we now mention these spurious sequenceness confounders to raise awareness for the field and also add greater context to the discussion, highlighting one of the issues that we think is of importance:

      “[…] For example, if two classifiers’ probabilities oscillate at 10 Hz but at a different phase, a spurious time lag can be found reflecting this phase shift. We speculate that more complex interactions between classifiers oscillating at different phases are also conceivable.”

      In addition, to really provide that a realistic simulation is necessary (one of the primary conclusions of the paper), it would be useful to provide a comparison to a fully synthetic simulation performed on this exact task and transition structure (in addition to the recreation of the original simulation code from the TDLM methods paper).

      Thank you for this suggestion! We have now added a synthetic simulation, trying to keep as close as possible to the original simulation code in Liu et al. (2021), while also incorporating our current means of simulating the data (i.e. scaling by performance). We think this synthetic simulation greatly improves the paper and gives weight to our suggestion about the superiority of a hybrid approach. Additionally, it prompted us to look closer at patterns that are inserted in the synthetic simulation and perform a comparative analysis. We have now added the simulation to the main text, together with a methodological explanation of how we simulated the data in the methods section. We also added a discussion on the results and why we think a hybrid approach is currently superior to synthetic approach. The whole new section is too long to paste here – it is found after the main simulation section in the manuscript. We have also added another sentence to the abstract referring to this new inclusion.

      Finally, I think the authors could do further work to determine whether some of their recommendations for improving the sensitivity of TDLM pan out in the current data - for example, they could report focusing not just on the peak decoding timepoint but incorporating other moments into classifier training.

      While we do understand the desire to test further refinement to TDLM on the data directly, we intentionally do not include such analyses in the current paper. Our experience also informs us that there is an enormous branching factor of parameters when applying TDLM, with implications for significance of results in one or other direction. However, as there are currently only limited ways to know how well parameter changes actually improve the sensitivity to replay versus exacerbate potential underlying confounders that induce spurious sequenceness (e.g., we can get significant replay in the control condition with some parameter changes). To exclude such false positive findings, we opt for a relatively strict adherence to previously published approaches. Thus, in the current paper, we limit ourselves to assessing the reliability and robustness of previous approaches.

      Furthermore, while training on a later timepoint might increase sensitivity for a classifier when transferring between different modalities (e.g. visual to memory representation), this approach does not transfer well in our simulations, as the inserted patterns are from the same modality. We consider other, more bespoke studies, are better suited to improve classifier training. NB also see our recently started Kaggle challenge to tackle this problem: https://www.kaggle.com/competitions/the-imagine-decoding-challenge

      However, we have added a note about this dilemma to the improvement section. The section now includes:

      “Nevertheless, as the considerable branching factor poses a threat of increased falsepositive findings we opt to focus the current simulations on previously published pipelines and parameters. Future studies should systematically evaluate parameter choices on TDLM under different conditions, something that is beyond the remit of the current study.”

      Lastly, I would like the authors to address a point that was raised in a separate public forum by an author of the TDLM method, which is that when replays "happen during rest, they are not uniform or close." Because the simulations in this work assume regularly occurring replay events, I agree that this is an important limitation that should be incorporated into alternative simulations to ensure the lack of findings is not because of this assumption.

      The temporal distribution of replay throughout the resting state should not matter, as TDLM is invariant w.r.t to how replay events are distributed within the analysis window. Specifically, it does not matter if replay events occur in bursts or are uniformly distributed. Only the number of transitions is relevant, where they occur or if they are close to each other is not relevant to the numerical results (as long as the refractory window is kept, too short distances will lead to interactions between events and reduce sensitivity).). To emphasize this point, we have added another simulation which is shown in Appendix A.1 and Appendix A Figure 1. We have referenced it in the text and added the following paragraph in the Methods section

      Additionally, the timepoints of inserting replay within the resting state are sampled from a uniform distribution. Even though TDLM tracks reactivation events over time, at a macro-scale the algorithm is invariant to the temporal distribution. At each time step, the GLM regresses onto a future time step up to the maximum time lag of interest, yielding a predictor per lag. However, these predictors within the GLM are independently assessed, and hence, TDLM is, outside of the time lag window, relatively invariant to the temporal distribution of replay. To demonstrate our claim, we simulated uniform replay vs “bursty” replay that only occurs in some parts of the resting state, both yield equivalent sequenceness results (see Appendix A.1).

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      (1) I am still left wondering why other studies were able to detect replay using this method. My takeaway from this paper is that large time windows lead to high significance thresholds/required replay density, making it extremely challenging to detect replay at physiological levels during resting periods. While it is true that some previous studies applying TDLM used smaller time windows (e.g., Kern's previous paper detected replay in 1500ms windows), others, including Liu et al. (2019), successfully detected replay during a 5-minute resting period. Why do the authors believe others have nevertheless been able to detect replay during multi-minute time windows?

      (Due to similarity, we combined our responses with the first question of Reviewer 1)

      We are reluctant to make sweeping judgments in relation to previous literature as we wanted to prioritize on advancing methodology instead. The previous TDLM literature uses a diverse set of tasks and cognitive processes. As we state ourselves, it is possible that replay bursts in short time windows are well detectable by TDLM. We were intentionally cautious to directly critique previous studies without detailed re-analysis of their work and wanted to leave such a conclusion up to the reader. However, we realize that such a “thought-starter” might be warranted and improve the paper. Therefore, we have added the following paragraph to the discussion about “improving TDLMs sensitivity”:

      “Finally, what do our simulations imply for the broader MEG replay literature? Our implementation successfully detects replay when boundary conditions are met, as shown in the simulation. But sensitivity depends critically on high fidelity between the analysis window and the amount of replay events. A systematic evaluation of these conditions across prior studies is beyond the scope of this paper, so we do not want to adjudicate earlier findings and leave this assessment up to the reader. Instead, we delineate the boundary conditions and urge future work to conduct power analyses where possible and include simulations that approximate realistic experimental conditions.”

      For example, some studies using TDLM report evidence of sequenceness as a contrast between evidence of forwards (f) versus backwards (b) sequenceness; sequenceness was defined as ZfΔt - ZbΔt (where Z refers to the sequence alignment coefficient for a transition matrix at a specific time lag). This use case is not discussed in the present paper, despite its prevalence in the literature. If the same logic were applied to the data in this study, would significant sequenceness have been uncovered? Whether it would or not, I believe this point is important for understanding methodological differences between this paper and others.

      This approach was first introduced as part of a TDLM-predecessor that utilized crosscorrelations (Kurth-Nelson 2016), where this step is a necessity to extract any sequenceness signal at all by subtracting signals that are present in both (akin to an EEG reference). However, its validity is less clear when fwd and bkw are estimated separately, as is in the GLM case. The rationale behind subtracting here is the same as for autocorrelations: there are oscillatory confounds present in the data that introduce spurious sequenceness in both directions alike, i.e. at the same time lag, that can simply be removed by subtracting. However, this assumption only holds if the sole confounder is auto-correlations caused by a global signal that oscillates at all sensors at the same phase. In our own experience, and mentioned in the discussion, we do not think this assumption holds. Arguably, there are more complex interactions at play that cannot be removed by such a subtraction such as an increase in false positives if confounders are in an opposite direction at a specific time lag. This assumption-violation can be seen in our baseline condition, where other spurious sequenceness diverges in opposite directions for some time lags (e.g. at ~90 ms where forward sequenceness is negative and backward sequenceness is positive). We reasoned that oscillatory confounds are more stable when comparing pre vs post for the same direction than comparing within session between forward minus backward.

      Finally, we note issues introduced by the various ways that sequenceness has been analysed in previous papers: normalization of sequenceness (z-scoring across time lags or across participants or not at all), normalization of probabilities (taking raw decision scores, z-scoring, soft-max, dividing by mean, subtracting mean), taking a windowed approach and summing sequenceness scores, not to mention the various classifier choices that can be made, and all of this can be applied before subtracting conditions from each other or before subtraction. In our experience there is insufficient regard to control for multiple comparison when running all these analyses risking selectivity in reporting.

      Nevertheless, subtracting forward from backward replay is probably as valid as post minus pre. Therefore, we have added fwd-bkw plots to the supplement and explained some of the reasoning for not reporting them in the main text in the figure label. The figure label and reference now read:

      “Finally, we report forward minus backward sequenceness and our motivation for using an across-session post-pre comparison instead of within-session forwardbackward in Supplement Figure 10.”

      […]

      “Forward minus backward sequenceness within each resting state session. Previous papers often report subtraction of backward from forward sequenceness (fwd-bkw) as a means to remove oscillatory confounds that impact both sequenceness directions in synchrony. While required in early cross-correlation approaches (KurthNelson et al., 2016), its validity in GLM-based frameworks depends on an assumption that confounds are global and in-phase across sensors. We observed this assumption is violated in our baseline data, where spurious sequenceness occasionally diverges in opposite directions at specific time lags (e.g., ~90 ms). In such instances, subtraction would increase the false-positive rate rather than suppress noise. In Figure 3B, we prioritized the comparison of pre-task versus post-task sequenceness within the same direction, as oscillatory confounds appeared more stable across time within a single direction, as opposed to across directions within a single session. However, we consider both approaches are valid. We now provide the fwd-bkw plots for completeness and comparison with previous literature. A) forward minus backwards sequenceness for Control (left) and Post-Learning resting-state (right). B) T-value distribution of the sign-flip permutation test for Control (left) and Post-Learning resting-state (right)”

      (2) Relatedly, while the authors note that smaller time windows are necessary for TDLM to succeed, a more precise description of the appropriate window size would greatly improve the utility of this paper. As it stands, the discussion feels incomplete without this information, as providing explicit guidance on optimal window sizes would help future researchers apply TDLM effectively. Under what window size range can physiological levels of replay actually be detected using TDLM? Or, is there some scaling factor that should be considered, in terms of window size and significance threshold/replay density? If the authors are unable to provide a concrete recommendation, they could add information about time windows used in previous studies (perhaps, is 1500ms as used in their previous paper a good recommendation?).

      We currently do not have an empirical estimate of which window sizes are appropriate. While we used 1500ms in our previous paper, this was solely given by the experiment design which had a 1.5s wait period before the next stimulus. Our recommendation for best guidance on this matter would be to investigate related intracranial literature for SWR rate increases under similar experimental conditions. We have added the following paragraph to the discussion:

      “At this stage we cannot offer a general recommendation for window sizes as they are likely to depend on details of the research paradigm. However, intracranial recordings can be used as proxy to estimate the duration of replay bursts, for example as reported in (Norman et al., 2019) where increased SWRs were seen up to 1500 ms after retrieval cue onset”

      (3) In their simulation, the authors define a replay event as a single transition from one item to another (example: A to B). However, in rodents, replay often traverses more than a single transition (example: A to B to C, even to D and E). Observing multistep sequences increases confidence that true replay is present. How does sequence length impact the authors' conclusions? Similarly, can the authors comment on how the length of the inserted events impacts TDLM sensitivity, if at all?

      Good point! So far, most papers do not seem to include multi-step TDLM and in our experience rightfully, as it is conceptionally difficult to define clear significance thresholds while keeping in mind that shorter sub-sequences are contained within a longer sequence (e.g. ABC contains both AB and BC and a longer dependency of AC) that renders it difficult to define the correct way to create a null distribution for the permutation test. Therefore, we tried to stay as close as possible to previous approaches and only looked for single-step transitions. Nevertheless, we have added an analysis to the supplement comparing how TDLM behaves if we simulate A->B->C or A->B and separate B->C. It shows that TDLM is only sensitive to the number of transitions present in the data, and it does not matter if they are chained or chunked. The segment reads:

      “We intentionally designed our study to encourage replay of triplets. However, this begs the question as to whether it matters if triplets or individual chunks of a sequence are replayed at different time points? Here, we simulated two scenarios. In one, we inserted replay of single transitions alone with a refractory period, e.g. A->B and separate B->C transitions. In a second scenario, we simulate replay of chained triplets, e.g. A->B->C, with a distance of 80 milliseconds each. Importantly, we kept the number of transitions constant (i.e., A->B, … B->C and where A->B->C would both have 2 transitions. This creates a context wherein a four-minute resting state would have ~100 events of A->B->C inserted and ~200 events of A->B or B->C, such that in both cases this results in the same number of single step transitions. We found both are equivalent, with TDLM agnostic to the length of sequence trains, i.e., it does not matter if replay is chunked or chained under the assumption that the number of transitions remains fixed, as can be seen in Appendix A Figure 2”

      And the reference Figure description reads:

      “TDLM is invariant to the length of sequence replay trains under an assumption that the number of target transitions (e.g. single steps) is fixed. We simulated replay either as two temporally separate A->B, B->C events (light orange/green) or as a single A>B->C event (dark orange/green), both yielding equivalent sequenceness. Shaded areas denote the standard error across participants”

      For example, regarding sequence length, is it possible that TDLM would detect multiple parts of a longer sequence independently, meaning that the high density needed to detect replay is actually not quite so dense? (example: if 20 four-step sequences (A to B to C to D to E) were sampled by TDLM such that it recorded each transition separately, that would lead to a density of 80 events/min).

      Indeed, this is an interesting proposal. We intentionally kept our simulation close to the way previous simulations were set-up (i.e. Liu & Dolan et al 2021, Liu & Mattar 2021) by simulating one-step transitions and simulated them such that there is no overlap between separate events (e.g. by defining a refractory period). If the duration of replay is increased then we would also need to increase the length of the refractory period, resulting in a reduced upper limit of how much replay can occur in a 1-minute time window. This in turn would approximate roughly the same number of transitions that can be inserted into the resting state and, as detailed above, would yield the same results. Nevertheless, as we chose to use replay density and not transition density as a marker, the density would be reduced, even if the number of transitions stay the same. We have added an analysis using multi-step replay to the supplement and discuss its implications and caveats. In the main discussion we have added the following segment:

      “Similarly, in our simulation, for simplicity and to keep consistency with previousstimulations, we restricted replay events to span two reactivation events. While the characteristics of replay as measured by TDLM are unknown, it is conceivable that several steps can be replayed within one replay event. We show that the vanilla version of TDLM is fundamentally sensitive to the number of single-step transitions alone, and disregards if these are replayed chained or chunked (Appendix A.2 and Appendix A Figure 2). Nevertheless, if the number of reactivation events chained within a replay event increases, TDLMs sensitivity is increased relative to the replay density and thresholds are reached earlier (see Appendix A Figure 4). See Appendix A.4 for a simulation of multi-step replay events and our discussion of the caveats.”

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Please label the various significance thresholds in the legend of Figure 3.

      We have labelled all the thresholds in the figure legends.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I think that some of the clarity is hampered because there is a bit too much reliance on explanations from the previous paper using this task, which hampers clarity in the paper. For example, Figure 1 is not particularly useful for understanding the study in its current form; I found myself relying almost exclusively on Supplementary Figure 1 (which is from the previous paper). I'd recommend presenting some version of SF1 in the main text instead. Another example of this overreliance on the previous paper is that, as far as I can tell, the present paper never explicitly states which transitions are being tested in TDLM. In the prior work, it states "all allowable graph transitions", and so I assumed this was the same here, but the paper should standalone without having to go back to the other study. I'd recommend that the authors revise the paper in these and other places where the previous paper is mentioned.

      Thanks for raising this point! We were uncertain ourselves how to deal with the overlap in content and did not want to bloat the paper or plagiarize ourselves too much. On the advice of the referee have implemented the following to improve the manuscript and reduce a reliance on the previous paper:

      Supplement Figure 1 is indeed crucial to understanding the experiment. We have moved it to the methods section under Methods: Procedure

      Added more stimulus description to the Methods: Localizer section

      Included more details about the localizer and graph learning that were missing before

      We have added the note about which transitions we were looking for in the Methods section. Additionally, we have added this information to the Results section of Study 1.

      There are also a few typos I noticed:

      (1) Line 73: "during in the context of."

      (2) Line 287: " to exploring the."

      We fixed the typos.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Why did the authors choose an 80ms state-to-state time lag for their simulation? I believe they should make the reason for this decision clear in the main text.

      Indeed, this point was also raised by the other reviewer. We have added a sentence to the main text about the rationale behind this decision:

      “We chose this timepoint (80 millisecond state-to-state lag) as its sequenceness value was close to zero in the baseline condition as well as being distant to the observed alpha rhythms of the participants (which varied between ~9-11 Hz). Additionally, we subtracted the mean sequenceness value of the baseline at 80 millisecond lag such that any simulation effects would, on average, start at zero sequenceness.“

      Additionally, we have added some further explanation to the Methods section.

      “This time lag (80 msec) was chosen in order to isolate precisely an effect of the experimentally inserted sequenceness. Thus, we chose a lag at which the mean baseline sequenceness was close to zero and where the correlation with behaviour was low. Additionally, we subtracted the mean sequenceness value (at 80 milliseconds) at baseline from the specific lag recorded for each participant, such that simulation effects would be initialized at zero sequenceness on average enabling any effects to be attributed purely to inserted replay. Additionally, we excluded time lags too close to the alpha rhythms of participants (which varied between ~9-11 Hz) or lags which would have a harmonic with the rhythm.“

      (2) Line 168: Can the authors define what these conservative and liberal criteria are in the text?

      We have added definitions of the criteria in the text. The text now reads:

      “[..] significance thresholds (conservative, i.e. the maximum sequenceness across all permutations and timepoints or liberal criteria, i.e. the 95% percentile of aforementioned sequenceness).”

      (3) Line 478: "calculate" instead of "calculated".

      (4) Figure 7 D: y-axis is labeled "70 ms" I believe it should be labeled 80 ms.

      Thanks, we fixed the two typos.

      (5) With replay defined as sequential reactivation at a compressed temporal timescale, many of the iEEG citations (lines 54-55) do not demonstrate replay (they show stimulus reinstatement or ripple activity, but not sequential replay). Replay studies in humans using intracranial methods have been mostly limited to those measuring single-unit activity, a good example being Vaz et al., 2020 (https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aba0672).

      We agree that, under a strict definition articulated by Genzel et al. that defines replay as sequential reactivation, many prior human iEEG studies are better described as stimulus reinstatement or ripple-related activity rather than true sequence replay. We have revised the text accordingly and now highlight the few intracranial microelectrode studies that demonstrate replay of firing sequences at the cellular/ensemble level in humans (Eichenlaub et al., 2020; Vaz et al., 2020), distinguishing these from macro-scale iEEG work providing indirect evidence alone.

      The revised paragraph now reads:

      “Replay has been shown using cellular recordings across a variety of mammalian model organisms (Hoffman & McNaughton, 2002; Lee & Wilson, 2002; Pavlides & Winson, 1989). Replay studies in humans using intracranial recordings are few, but include work demonstrating compressed replay of firing-pattern sequences in motor cortex during rest (Eichenlaub et al., 2020) as well as single-unit replay of trialspecific cortical spiking sequences during episodic retrieval (Vaz et al., 2020). By contrast, most iEEG studies report stimulus-specific reinstatement or ripple-locked activity changes without explicit demonstration of temporally compressed sequential replay (Axmacher et al., 2008; Staresina et al., 2015). As these methods are only applied under restricted clinical circumstances, such as during pre-operative neurosurgical assessments, this limits opportunities to investigate human replay. Therefore, this gives urgency to efforts aimed at developing novel methods to investigate human replay non-invasively.”

      (6) The expectations about replay frequency are grounded in literature on hippocampal replay sequences. However, MEG captures signals from across the entire brain, and the hippocampal contribution is likely relatively weak compared to all other signals. This raises an important question: is TDLM genuinely unable to detect replay at physiological (i.e., hippocampal) levels, or is it instead detecting a different form of sequential reactivation - possibly involving cortex or other regions - that may occur more frequently? More broadly, when we have evidence of replay from TDLM, do we believe it is the same thing as replay of CA1 place cell spiking sequences, as detected in rodents? Commenting on this distinction would help further develop theories of replay and what TDLM is measuring.

      This is indeed an important point that has garnered relatively little attention. While there is some evidence of a relation to hippocampal replay in form of high-frequency power increase in the hippocampus, ultimately it is not possible to know without intracranial recordings, as signal strength from those regions is rather poor in MEG.

      We have added the following segment to the manuscript that discusses these issues:

      “However, while we are using indices of SWRs as a proxy for replay density estimation, the relationship between hippocampal replay and replay detected by TDLM remains uncertain. While current decoding approaches measure replay-like phenomena on cortical sites, previous papers have reported a power increase in hippocampal areas coinciding with replay episodes as detected by TDLM. Nevertheless, it is conceivable that cortical replay found by TDLM could occur independently of hippocampal replay and SWRs and be generated by different mechanisms. Some TDLM-studies find a replay state-to-state time lag of above 100 ms, much slower than e.g. previously reported place cell replay. Future studies should employ simultaneous intracranial and cortical surface recordings to establish the relationship between hippocampal replay and replay found by TDLM.”

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      Zeng et al. have investigated the impact of inhibiting lactate dehydrogenase (LDH) on glycolysis and the tricarboxylic acid cycle. LDH is the terminal enzyme of aerobic glycolysis or fermentation that converts pyruvate and NADH to lactate and NAD+ and is essential for the fermentation pathway as it recycles NAD+ needed by upstream glyceraldehyde-3-phosphate dehydrogenase. As the authors point out in the introduction, multiple published reports have shown that inhibition of LDH in cancer cells typically leads to a switch from fermentative ATP production to respiratory ATP production (i.e., glucose uptake and lactate secretion are decreased, and oxygen consumption is increased). The presumed logic of this metabolic rearrangement is that when glycolytic ATP production is inhibited due to LDH inhibition, the cell switches to producing more ATP using respiration. This observation is similar to the well-established Crabtree and Pasteur effects, where cells switch between fermentation and respiration due to the availability of glucose and oxygen. Unexpectedly, the authors observed that inhibition of LDH led to inhibition of respiration and not activation as previously observed. The authors perform rigorous measurements of glycolysis and TCA cycle activity, demonstrating that under their experimental conditions, respiration is indeed inhibited. Given the large body of work reporting the opposite result, it is difficult to reconcile the reasons for the discrepancy. In this reviewer's opinion, a reason for the discrepancy may be that the authors performed their measurements 6 hours after inhibiting LDH. Six hours is a very long time for assessing the direct impact of a perturbation on metabolic pathway activity, which is regulated on a timescale of seconds to minutes. The observed effects are likely the result of a combination of many downstream responses that happen within 6 hours of inhibiting LDH that causes a large decrease in ATP production, inhibition of cell proliferation, and likely a range of stress responses, including gene expression changes.

      Strengths:

      The regulation of metabolic pathways is incompletely understood, and more research is needed, such as the one conducted here. The authors performed an impressive set of measurements of metabolite levels in response to inhibition of LDH using a combination of rigorous approaches.

      Weaknesses:

      Glycolysis, TCA cycle, and respiration are regulated on a timescale of seconds to minutes. The main weakness of this study is the long drug treatment time of 6 hours, which was chosen for all the experiments. In this reviewer's opinion, if the goal was to investigate the direct impact of LDH inhibition on glycolysis and the TCA cycle, most of the experiments should have been performed immediately after or within minutes of LDH inhibition. After 6 hours of inhibiting LDH and ATP production, cells undergo a whole range of responses, and most of the observed effects are likely indirect due to the many downstream effects of LDH and ATP production inhibition, such as decreased cell proliferation, decreased energy demand, activation of stress response pathways, etc.

      We thank reviewer for the careful reading of our manuscript, the accurate summary of the prevailing model, and the positive assessment of the rigor of our measurements. We agree that much prior literature reports increased oxygen consumption following LDH inhibition, and we recognize that our finding—coordinated suppression of glycolysis, the TCA cycle, and OXPHOS—differs from this prevailing interpretation. We address below the reviewer’s main concern regarding the 6-hour time point and clarify the conceptual scope of our study.

      (1) Scope: steady-state metabolic regulation versus immediate transient effects

      The reviewer raises an important point that many metabolic perturbations can trigger rapid, transient responses within seconds to minutes, whereas our measurements were performed after sustained LDH inhibition. We agree that very early time points would be required if the primary goal were to isolate the most immediate, proximal consequence of LDH inhibition before downstream propagation. However, the objective of our study is different: we aim to characterize the metabolic steady state re-established after sustained inhibition of LDH activity, because this adapted steady state is more relevant for understanding long-term metabolic consequences and therapeutic outcomes of LDH inhibition in cancer cells.

      (2) Genetic LDHA/LDHB knockout: comparison of two steady states

      A related point applies to the LDHA/LDHB knockout models. We fully agree that the knockout process necessarily involves a temporal perturbation during cell line generation and adaptation. Nevertheless, the experimental comparison in our study is explicitly between two steady states: the baseline steady state of control cells and the steady state achieved after stable genetic disruption of LDHA or LDHB. The observation that LDHA or LDHB knockout alone had minimal effects on glycolysis and respiration indicates that partial reduction of LDH activity can be compensated in a steady-state manner, consistent with the exceptionally high catalytic capacity of LDH in cancer cells relative to upstream rate-limiting enzymes.

      (3) LDH-activity-dependent quantitative relationships support stable metabolic states

      Importantly, our conclusions do not rely on a single inhibitor condition at a single time point. Rather, we established quantitative steady-state relationships between residual LDH activity and pathway behavior across a wide range of LDH inhibition. These LDH-activity-dependent data strongly support that the system resides in stable metabolic states at different degrees of LDH activity, rather than reflecting non-specific collapse due to prolonged stress.

      Specifically, we observed that when LDH activity was reduced from 100% to approximately ~9% (e.g., by genetic perturbation and partial pharmacologic inhibition), glucose consumption and lactate production remained essentially unchanged, indicating maintenance of a steady-state glycolytic flux despite substantial LDH inhibition. Only when LDH activity was further reduced below this threshold did glycolytic flux decrease in a graded manner, consistent with a nonlinear control structure (Figure 8 A & B)).

      Likewise, the isotope tracing results showed distinct LDH-activity-dependent transitions in TCA cycle labeling patterns. Over the range in which LDH activity decreased from 100% to ~9%, the [<sup>13</sup>C<sub>6</sub>]glucose-derived labeling pattern of citrate remained largely unchanged, whereas deeper inhibition led to a decrease in m2 citrate with a compensatory rise in higher-order citrate isotopologues, consistent with altered flux entry versus cycling/retention in the TCA cycle (Figure 8C). Similarly, [<sup>13</sup>C<sub>5</sub>]glutamine tracing revealed that deeper LDH inhibition reduced the direct m5 contribution, accompanied by corresponding shifts in other isotopologues (Figure 8D). These graded, quantitative transitions—rather than an abrupt global failure—support the interpretation of distinct metabolic steady states across LDH activity levels, linking LDH inhibition to changes in both glycolysis and mitochondrial metabolism.

      (4) Reconciling discrepancies with prior studies

      We agree that multiple prior studies have reported increased oxygen consumption or enhanced oxidative metabolism following LDH inhibition in cancer cells. However, we note that this prevailing notion often persists because LDH inhibition is frequently discussed by analogy to the classical Pasteur and Crabtree effects, in which cells toggle between fermentation and respiration depending on oxygen and glucose availability. We believe this analogy can be misleading.

      In the Pasteur effect, the metabolic shift is primarily driven by oxygen limitation, i.e., restriction of the terminal electron acceptor for the mitochondrial electron transport chain, which enforces reliance on fermentation. In the Crabtree effect, high glucose availability suppresses respiration through regulatory mechanisms while glycolysis is strongly activated. Both phenomena are fundamentally controlled by oxygen availability and respiratory capacity, rather than by inhibition of a specific cytosolic enzyme.

      By contrast, LDH inhibition is mechanistically distinct: it directly perturbs cytosolic redox recycling by limiting NADH-to-NAD<sup>+</sup> regeneration and can therefore constrain upstream glycolytic flux (particularly at GAPDH) and reshape pathway thermodynamics. Under conditions where LDH inhibition sufficiently limits effective NAD<sup>+</sup> availability and reduces glycolytic flux into pyruvate, the downstream consequence is reduced carbon input into the TCA cycle and suppressed OXPHOS—consistent with our experimental measurements. We therefore suggest that divergent outcomes reported across studies likely reflect differences in residual LDH activity, cell-type–specific metabolic wiring, and the extent to which glycolytic flux remains sustained versus becoming redox-limited upstream, rather than a universal Pasteur/Crabtree-like “switch” from fermentation to respiration. Accordingly, interpreting LDH inhibition as a Pasteur/Crabtree-like toggle may oversimplify the biochemical consequences of disrupting cytosolic NAD<sup>+</sup> regeneration.

      We have revised the Discussion to clarify this conceptual distinction and to avoid relying on comparisons that are not mechanistically equivalent to LDH inhibition.

      Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      Zeng et al. investigated the role of LDH in determining the metabolic fate of pyruvate in HeLa and 4T1 cells. To do this, three broad perturbations were applied: knockout of two LDH isoforms (LDH-A and LDH-B), titration with a non-competitive LDH inhibitor (GNE-140), and exposure to either normoxic (21% O2) or hypoxic (1% O2) conditions. They show that knockout of either LDH isoform alone, though reducing both protein level and enzyme activity, has virtually no effect on either the incorporation of a stable 13C-label from a 13C6-glucose into any glycolytic or TCA cycle intermediate, nor on the measured intracellular concentrations of any glycolytic intermediate (Figure 2). The only apparent exception to this was the NADH/NAD+ ratio, measured as the ratio of F420/F480 emitted from a fluorescent tag (SoNar).

      The addition of a chemical inhibitor, on the other hand, did lead to changes in glycolytic flux, the concentrations of glycolytic intermediates, and in the NADH/NAD+ ratio (Figure 3). Notably, this was most evident in the LDH-B-knockout, in agreement with the increased sensitivity of LDH-A to GNE-140 (Figure 2). In the LDH-B-knockout, increasing concentrations of GNE-140 increased the NADH/NAD+ ratio, reduced glucose uptake, and lactate production, and led to an accumulation of glycolytic intermediates immediately upstream of GAPDH (GA3P, DHAP, and FBP) and a decrease in the product of GAPDH (3PG). They continue to show that this effect is even stronger in cells exposed to hypoxic conditions (Figure 4). They propose that a shift to thermodynamic unfavourability, initiated by an increased NADH/NAD+ ratio inhibiting GAPDH explains the cascade, calculating ΔG values that become progressively more endergonic at increasing inhibitor concentrations.

      Then - in two separate experiments - the authors track the incorporation of 13C into the intermediates of the TCA cycle from a 13C6-glucose and a 13C5-glutamine. They use the proportion of labelled intermediates as a proxy for how much pyruvate enters the TCA cycle (Figure 5). They conclude that the inhibition of LDH decreases fermentation, but also the TCA cycle and OXPHOS flux - and hence the flux of pyruvate to all of those pathways. Finally, they characterise the production of ATP from respiratory or fermentative routes, the concentration of a number of cofactors (ATP, ADP, AMP, NAD(P)H, NAD(P)+, and GSH/GSSG), the cell count, and cell viability under four conditions: with and without the highest inhibitor concentration, and at norm- and hypoxia. From this, they conclude that the inhibition of LDH inhibits the glycolysis, the TCA cycle, and OXPHOS simultaneously (Figure 7).

      Strengths:

      The authors present an impressively detailed set of measurements under a variety of conditions. It is clear that a huge effort was made to characterise the steady-state properties (metabolite concentrations, fluxes) as well as the partitioning of pyruvate between fermentation as opposed to the TCA cycle and OXPHOS.

      A couple of intermediary conclusions are well supported, with the hypothesis underlying the next measurement clearly following. For instance, the authors refer to literature reports that LDH activity is highly redundant in cancer cells (lines 108 - 144). They prove this point convincingly in Figure 1, showing that both the A- and B-isoforms of LDH can be knocked out without any noticeable changes in specific glucose consumption or lactate production flux, or, for that matter, in the rate at which any of the pathway intermediates are produced. Pyruvate incorporation into the TCA cycle and the oxygen consumption rate are also shown to be unaffected.

      They checked the specificity of the inhibitor and found good agreement between the inhibitory capacity of GNE-140 on the two isoforms of LDH and the glycolytic flux (lines 229 - 243). The authors also provide a logical interpretation of the first couple of consequences following LDH inhibition: an increased NADH/NAD+ ratio leading to the inhibition of GAPDH, causing upstream accumulations and downstream metabolite decreases (lines 348 - 355).

      Weaknesses:

      Despite the inarguable comprehensiveness of the data set, a number of conceptual shortcomings afflict the manuscript. First and foremost, reasoning is often not pursued to a logical conclusion. For instance, the accumulation of intermediates upstream of GAPDH is proffered as an explanation for the decreased flux through glycolysis. However, in Figure 3C it is clear that there is no accumulation of the intermediates upstream of PFK. It is unclear, therefore, how this traffic jam is propagated back to a decrease in glucose uptake. A possible explanation might lie with hexokinase and the decrease in ATP (and constant ADP) demonstrated in Figure 6B, but this link is not made.

      We appreciate the reviewer's critical comment. In Figure 3C, there is no accumulation of F6P or G6P, which are upstream of PFK1. This is because the PFK1-catalyzed reaction sets a significant thermodynamic barrier. Even with treatment using 30 μM GNE-140, the ∆G<sub>PFK1</sub> (Gibbs free energy of the PFK1-catalyzed reaction) remains -9.455 kJ/mol (Figure 3D), indicating that the reaction is still far from thermodynamic equilibrium, thereby preventing the accumulation of F6P and G6P.

      We agree with the reviewer that hexokinase inhibition may play a role, this requires further investigation.

      The obvious link between the NADH/NAD+ ratio and pyruvate dehydrogenase (PDH) is also never addressed, a mechanism that might explain how the pyruvate incorporation into the TCA cycle is impaired by the inhibition of LDH (the observation with which they start their discussion, lines 511 - 514).

      We agree with the reviewer’s comment. In this study, we did not explore how the inhibition of LDH affects pyruvate incorporation into the TCA cycle. As this mechanism was not investigated, we have titled the study:

      "Elucidating the Kinetic and Thermodynamic Insights into the Regulation of Glycolysis by Lactate Dehydrogenase and Its Impact on the Tricarboxylic Acid Cycle and Oxidative Phosphorylation in Cancer Cells."

      It was furthermore puzzling how the ΔG, calculated with intracellular metabolite concentrations (Figures 3 and 4) could be endergonic (positive) for PGAM at all conditions (also normoxic and without inhibitor). This would mean that under the conditions assayed, glycolysis would never flow completely forward. How any lactate or pyruvate is produced from glucose, is then unexplained.

      This issue also concerned me during the study. However, given the high reproducibility of the data, we consider it is true, but requires explanation. The PGAM-catalyzed reaction is tightly linked to both upstream and downstream reactions in the glycolytic pathway. In glycolysis, three key reactions catalyzed by HK2, PFK1, and PK are highly exergonic, providing the driving force for the conversion of glucose to pyruvate. The other reactions, including the one catalyzed by PGAM, operate near thermodynamic equilibrium and primarily serve to equilibrate glycolytic intermediates rather than control the overall direction of glycolysis, as previously described by us (J Biol Chem. 2024 Aug8;300(9):107648).

      The endergonic nature of the PGAM-catalyzed reaction does not prevent it from proceeding in the forward direction. Instead, the directionality of the pathway is dictated by the exergonic reaction of PFK1 upstream, which pushes the flux forward, and by PK downstream, which pulls the flux through the pathway. The combined effects of PFK1 and PK may account for the observed endergonic state of the PGAM reaction.

      However, if the PGAM-catalyzed reaction were isolated from the glycolytic pathway, it would tend toward equilibrium and never surpass it, as there would be no driving force to move the reaction forward.

      Finally, the interpretation of the label incorporation data is rather unconvincing. The authors observe an increasing labelled fraction of TCA cycle intermediates as a function of increasing inhibitor concentration. Strangely, they conclude that less labelled pyruvate enters the TCA cycle while simultaneously less labelled intermediates exit the TCA cycle pool, leading to increased labelling of this pool. The reasoning that they present for this (decreased m2 fraction as a function of DHE-140 concentration) is by no means a consistent or striking feature of their titration data and comes across as rather unconvincing. Yet they treat this anomaly as resolved in the discussion that follows.

      GNE-140 treatment increased the labeling of TCA cycle intermediates by [<sup>13</sup>C<sub>6</sub>]glucose but decreased the OXPHOS rate, we consider the conflicting results as an 'anomaly' that warrants further explanation. To address this, we analyzed the labeling pattern of TCA cycle intermediates using both [<sup>13</sup>C<sub>6</sub>]glucose and [<sup>13</sup>C<sub>5</sub>]glutamine. Tracing the incorporation of glucose- and glutamine-derived carbons into the TCA cycle suggests that LDH inhibition leads to a reduced flux of glucose-derived acetyl-CoA into the TCA cycle, coupled with a decreased flux of glutamine-derived α-KG, and a reduction in the efflux of intermediates from the cycle. These results align with theoretical predictions. Under any condition, the reactions that distribute TCA cycle intermediates to other pathways must be balanced by those that replenish them. In the GNE-140 treatment group, the entry of glutamine-derived carbon into the TCA cycle was reduced, implying that glucose-derived carbon (as acetyl-CoA) entering the TCA cycle must also be reduced, or vice versa.

      This step-by-step investigation is detailed under the subheading "The Effect of LDHB KO and GNE-140 on the Contribution of Glucose Carbon to the TCA Cycle and OXPHOS" in the Results section in the manuscript.

      In the Discussion, we emphasize that caution should be exercised when interpreting isotope tracing data. In this study, treatment of cells with GNE-140 led to an increase labeling percentage of TCA cycle intermediates by [<sup>13</sup>C<sub>6</sub>]glucose (Figure 5A-E). However, this does not necessarily imply an increase in glucose carbon flux into TCA cycle; rather, it indicates a reduction in both the flux of glucose carbon into TCA cycle and the flux of intermediates leaving TCA cycle. When interpreting the data, multiple factors must be considered, including the carbon-13 labeling pattern of the intermediates (m1, m2, m3, ---) (Figure 5G-K), replenishment of intermediates by glutamine (Figure 5M-V), and mitochondrial oxygen consumption rate (Figure 5W). All these factors should be taken into account to derive a proper interpretation of the data.

      Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

      Hu et al in their manuscript attempt to interrogate the interplay between glycolysis, TCA activity, and OXPHOS using LDHA/B knockouts as well as LDH-specific inhibitors. Before I discuss the specifics, I have a few issues with the overall manuscript. First of all, based on numerous previous studies it is well established that glycolysis inhibition or forcing pyruvate into the TCA cycle (studies with PDKs inhibitors) leads to upregulation of TCA cycle activity, and OXPHOS, activation of glutaminolysis, etc (in this work authors claim that lowered glycolysis leads to lower levels of TCA activity/OXPHOS). The authors in the current work completely ignore recent studies that suggest that lactate itself is an important signaling metabolite that can modulate metabolism (actual mechanistic insights were recently presented by at least two groups (Thompson, Chouchani labs). In addition, extensive effort was dedicated to understanding the crosstalk between glycolysis/TCA cycle/OXPHOS using metabolic models (Titov, Rabinowitz labs). I have several comments on how experiments were performed. In the Methods section, it is stated that both HeLa and 4T1 cells were grown in RPMI-1640 medium with regular serum - but under these conditions, pyruvate is certainly present in the medium - this can easily complicate/invalidate some findings presented in this manuscript. In LDH enzymatic assays as described with cell homogenates controls were not explained or presented (a lot of enzymes in the homogenate can react with NADH!). One of the major issues I have is that glycolytic intermediates were measured in multiple enzyme-coupled assays. Although one might think it is a good approach to have quantitative numbers for each metabolite, the way it was done is that cell homogenates (potentially with still traces of activity of multiple glycolytic enzymes) were incubated with various combinations of the SAME enzymes and substrates they were supposed to measure as a part of the enzyme-based cycling reaction. I would prefer to see a comparison between numbers obtained in enzyme-based assays with GC-MS/LC-MS experiments (using calibration curves for respective metabolites, of course). Correct measurements of these metabolites are crucial especially when thermodynamic parameters for respective reactions are calculated. Concentrations of multiple graphs (Figure 1g etc.) are in "mM", I do not think that this is correct.

      We thank the reviewer’s comment and the following are clarification of the conceptual framework, the quantitative methodology, and the experimental basis supporting our conclusions.

      (1) “It is well established that glycolysis inhibition or forcing pyruvate into the TCA cycle… leads to upregulation of TCA/OXPHOS… (authors claim lowered glycolysis leads to lower TCA/OXPHOS)”

      This framing is not accurate in the context of our study. PDK inhibition and LDH inhibition are fundamentally different perturbations. PDK inhibition directly promotes mitochondrial pyruvate oxidation by enabling PDH flux, whereas LDH inhibition primarily perturbs cytosolic redox balance (free NADH/NAD<sup>+</sup>) and thereby constrains upstream glycolytic reactions, particularly the GAPDH step. Therefore, the metabolic outcomes of these interventions are not expected to be identical and should not be treated as interchangeable.

      Importantly, we do not “ignore” prior studies proposing increased OXPHOS after LDH inhibition; we explicitly cite and summarize this prevailing interpretation in the Introduction. Our study was motivated precisely because this interpretation does not resolve key quantitative inconsistencies, including (i) the large mismatch between glycolytic flux and mitochondrial oxidative capacity, and (ii) the exceptionally high catalytic capacity of LDH relative to upstream rate-limiting glycolytic enzymes. These constraints raise a mechanistic question: how does LDH inhibition actually suppress glycolytic flux in intact cancer cells, and what are the consequences for TCA cycle and OXPHOS?

      Our central contribution is the identification of a biochemical mechanism supported by integrated measurements of fluxes, metabolite concentrations, redox state, and reaction thermodynamics: LDH inhibition increases free NADH/NAD<sup>+</sup>, decreases free NAD<sup>+</sup> availability, inhibits GAPDH, drives accumulation/depletion patterns in glycolytic intermediates, shifts Gibbs free energies of near-equilibrium reactions (PFK1–PGAM segment), suppresses pyruvate production, and consequently reduces carbon input into TCA cycle and OXPHOS. These analyses are not provided by most prior work and directly address the mechanistic gap.

      (2) Lactate signaling (Thompson/Chouchani) and metabolic modeling (Titov/Rabinowitz)

      These research directions are valuable, but they address questions that are different from the one investigated here. Our manuscript focuses on steady-state biochemical control of metabolic flux by LDH inhibition through redox-linked kinetics and pathway thermodynamics.

      (3) Pyruvate in RPMI

      Pyruvate in standard medium does not invalidate our conclusions. All experimental comparisons were performed under identical conditions across groups, and the major conclusions rely on orthogonal measurements including glycolytic flux (glucose consumption/lactate production), OCR profiling, and isotope tracing with [<sup>13</sup>C<sub>6</sub>]glucose and [<sup>13</sup>C<sub>5</sub>] glutamine, which directly quantify carbon entry into lactate and TCA cycle intermediates. These tracer-based results are not confounded by unlabeled extracellular pyruvate in a way that would reverse the mechanistic conclusions.

      (4) LDH activity assay in homogenates and “many enzymes can react with NADH”

      This concern is overstated. In the LDH assay, substrates are pyruvate + NADH, and the measured signal reflects NADH oxidation coupled to pyruvate reduction. In cell lysates, LDH is uniquely abundant and catalytically efficient for this reaction pair, and the inhibitor-response behavior matches the known LDHA/LDHB selectivity of GNE-140 and the cellular phenotypes. Thus, the assay is mechanistically specific in this context.

      (5) Enzyme-coupled metabolite assays and request for LC–MS validation

      The reviewer’s implication that enzyme-coupled assays are intrinsically unreliable is incorrect. Enzymatic cycling assays are a widely used quantitative approach when performed with proper specificity and calibration, and they are particularly useful for labile glycolytic intermediates that are challenging to quantify reproducibly by MS without specialized quenching, derivatization, and isotope dilution standards.

      We agree that MS-based quantification is valuable, and we have developed LC–MS methods for selected metabolites. However, absolute quantification of these intermediates remains technically difficult due to the inherent limitation of this method and, in our hands, did not provide uniformly robust performance for all intermediates required for thermodynamic analysis.

      (6) Units (“mM”)

      The metabolite concentration units are correct.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      If the goal is to investigate the direct impact of LDH inhibition, then in my opinion, most of these experiments need to be repeated at a very early time point immediately after or a few minutes after LDH inhibition. I understand that this is a tremendous amount of work that the authors might not want to pursue. I do want to highlight that the quality of the experiments performed in this work is impressive. I hope the authors continue investigating this subject and look forward to reading their future manuscripts on this topic.

      We thank the reviewer for this thoughtful and constructive comment and for the positive assessment of the experimental quality of our work.

      We fully agree that measurements at very early time points after LDH inhibition would be required if the goal were to isolate an immediate, proximal molecular event occurring before downstream propagation. However, the primary objective of our study is not to dissect a single instantaneous biochemical consequence of LDH inhibition, but rather to characterize the metabolic steady state that is re-established after sustained suppression of LDH activity, which we believe is more relevant for understanding the long-term metabolic and therapeutic consequences of LDH inhibition in cancer cells.

      (1) Scope: steady-state metabolic regulation versus immediate transient effects

      The reviewer raises an important point that many metabolic perturbations can trigger rapid, transient responses within seconds to minutes, whereas our measurements were performed after sustained LDH inhibition. We agree that very early time points would be required if the primary goal were to isolate the most immediate, proximal consequence of LDH inhibition before downstream propagation. However, the objective of our study is different: we aim to characterize the metabolic steady state re-established after sustained inhibition of LDH activity, because this adapted steady state is more relevant for understanding long-term metabolic consequences and therapeutic outcomes of LDH inhibition in cancer cells.

      (2) Genetic LDHA/LDHB knockout: comparison of two steady states

      A related point applies to the LDHA/LDHB knockout models. We fully agree that the knockout process necessarily involves a temporal perturbation during cell line generation and adaptation. Nevertheless, the experimental comparison in our study is explicitly between two steady states: the baseline steady state of control cells and the steady state achieved after stable genetic disruption of LDHA or LDHB. The observation that LDHA or LDHB knockout alone had minimal effects on glycolysis and respiration indicates that partial reduction of LDH activity can be compensated in a steady-state manner, consistent with the exceptionally high catalytic capacity of LDH in cancer cells relative to upstream rate-limiting enzymes.

      (3) LDH-activity-dependent quantitative relationships support stable metabolic states

      Importantly, our conclusions do not rely on a single inhibitor condition at a single time point. Rather, we established quantitative steady-state relationships between residual LDH activity and pathway behavior across a wide range of LDH inhibition. These LDH-activity-dependent data strongly support that the system resides in stable metabolic states at different degrees of LDH activity, rather than reflecting non-specific collapse due to prolonged stress.

      Specifically, we observed that when LDH activity was reduced from 100% to approximately ~9% (e.g., by genetic perturbation and partial pharmacologic inhibition), glucose consumption and lactate production remained essentially unchanged, indicating maintenance of a steady-state glycolytic flux despite substantial LDH inhibition. Only when LDH activity was further reduced below this threshold did glycolytic flux decrease in a graded manner, consistent with a nonlinear control structure.

      Likewise, the isotope tracing results showed distinct LDH-activity-dependent transitions in TCA cycle labeling patterns. Over the range in which LDH activity decreased from 100% to ~9%, the [<sup>13</sup>C<sub>6</sub>]glucose-derived labeling pattern of citrate remained largely unchanged, whereas deeper inhibition led to a decrease in m2 citrate with a compensatory rise in higher-order citrate isotopologues, consistent with altered flux entry versus cycling/retention in the TCA cycle. Similarly, [<sup>13</sup>C<sub>5</sub>]glutamine tracing revealed that deeper LDH inhibition reduced the direct m5 contribution, accompanied by corresponding shifts in other isotopologues. These graded, quantitative transitions—rather than an abrupt global failure—support the interpretation of distinct metabolic steady states across LDH activity levels, linking LDH inhibition to changes in both glycolysis and mitochondrial metabolism.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      All in all, the authors would benefit from collaboration with a group more well-versed in quantitative aspects of metabolism (such as Metabolic Control Analysis) and modelling methods (such as flux analysis) to boost the interpretation and impact of their really nice data set.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for this insightful and constructive suggestion. We fully agree that collaboration with groups specializing in quantitative metabolic analysis, such as Metabolic Control Analysis and flux modeling, would further expand the interpretative depth and broader impact of this work.

      The primary objective of the present work, however, was not to construct a global mathematical model, but to experimentally dissect the biochemical mechanism by which LDH inhibition coordinately suppresses glycolysis, the TCA cycle, and OXPHOS, integrating enzyme kinetics with thermodynamic constraints at steady state. Within this scope, we focused on experimentally demonstrable relationships between LDH activity, redox balance, GAPDH perturbation, thermodynamic shifts in near-equilibrium reactions, and emergent flux suppression.

      We fully recognize the power of MCA and related modeling approaches in formalizing control coefficients and system-level sensitivities, and we view our dataset as particularly well suited to support such future analyses. We therefore see this work as providing a robust experimental platform upon which more comprehensive quantitative modeling can be built, either in future studies or through collaboration with specialists in metabolic modeling.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for the important suggestions.

      (1) I strongly disagree that "regulation of glycolytic flux".. "remained largely unexplored.”

      Our original wording was meant to emphasize not the absence of prior work on glycolytic flux regulation, but rather that the specific biochemical mechanism by which LDH regulates glycolytic flux—particularly through the integrated effects of enzyme kinetics, redox balance, and thermodynamic constraints within the pathway—has not been fully elucidated.

      To avoid any ambiguity or overstatement, we have revised the relevant text to more precisely reflect this intent. The revised wording now reads:

      “This study elucidates a biochemical mechanism by which lactate dehydrogenase influences glycolytic flux in cancer cells, revealing a kinetic–thermodynamic interplay that contributes to metabolic regulation.”

      We believe this revised phrasing more accurately acknowledges prior work while clearly defining the specific mechanistic contribution of the present study.

      (2) Very confusing in the Introduction section: "If LDH is inhibited at the LDH step..”

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for pointing out the potential confusion caused by the phrase “If LDH is inhibited at the LDH step” in the Introduction.

      Our intention was to contrast two conceptual models of LDH inhibition. The first is the conventional view, in which the effect of LDH inhibition is assumed to be confined to the LDH-catalyzed reaction itself, leading primarily to local accumulation of pyruvate and its redirection toward mitochondrial metabolism. The second, which is supported by our data, is that LDH inhibition initiates a system-wide biochemical response, perturbing redox balance, upstream enzyme kinetics, and the thermodynamic state of the glycolytic pathway, ultimately resulting in coordinated suppression of glycolysis, the TCA cycle, and OXPHOS.

      We agree that the original phrasing was ambiguous and potentially misleading. To improve clarity, we have revised the text as follows:

      “If the effect of LDH inhibition were confined solely to its catalytic step…”

      (3) The entire introduction part when the authors attempt to explain how decreased glycolysis will lead to decreased mitochondrial respiration is confusing.

      We would like to clarify that the Introduction does not attempt to explain how decreased glycolysis leads to decreased mitochondrial respiration. Rather, the final paragraph of the Introduction is intended to highlight an unresolved conceptual inconsistency in the existing literature and to motivate the central question addressed in this study.

      Specifically, we summarize the prevailing view that LDH inhibition redirects pyruvate toward mitochondrial metabolism and enhances oxidative phosphorylation, and then point out that this interpretation is difficult to reconcile with quantitative considerations, such as the large disparity between glycolytic and mitochondrial flux capacities and the excess catalytic activity of LDH relative to upstream glycolytic enzymes. These observations are presented to emphasize that the biochemical mechanism linking LDH inhibition to changes in glycolysis and mitochondrial respiration has not been fully resolved.

      Importantly, the Introduction does not propose a mechanistic explanation for the observed suppression of mitochondrial respiration; rather, it poses this as an open question, which is then systematically addressed through experimental analysis in the Results section.

      (4) Line 144: "which is 81(HeLa-LDHAKO) -297(HeLa-Ctrl) times"- here and in many other places wording is confusing to the reader.

      Our intention was to emphasize the significant redundancy of LDH activity relative to hexokinase (HK), the first rate-limiting enzyme in the glycolysis pathway, in cancer cells.

      Specifically, we wanted to express that in HeLa-Ctrl cells, the total LDH activity is 297 times that of HK activity; while in HeLa-LDHAKO cells, although the total LDH activity decreased, it was still 81 times that of HK activity. This data comes from supplement Table 1 in the paper and aims to provide quantitative evidence for "why knocking out LDHA or LDHB alone is insufficient to significantly affect glycolysis flux," because the remaining LDH activity is still far higher than the HK activity at the pathway entrance, sufficient to maintain flux.

      Based on your suggestion, we rewrite it in the revised draft with a more specific statement: "...the total activity of LDH in HeLa cells is very high, which is 297-fold higher than the first rate-limiting enzyme HK activity in HeLa-Ctrl cells and 81-fold higher in HeLa-LDHAKO cells.”

      (5) Line 153: "in the following four aspects:"- but what are these aspects, the text below has no corresponding subtitles, etc.

      Our intention was to indicate that after LDHA or LDHB knockout alone failed to affect the glycolysis rate, we further explored its potential impact on the glycolytic pathway from four deeper perspectives: the glucose carbon to pyruvate and lactate, the glucose carbon to subsidiary branches of glycolysis, the concentration of glycolytic intermediates and the thermodynamic state of the pathway, and the redox state of cytosolic free NADH/NAD<sup>+</sup>.

      Following your valuable suggestion, we have now added the aforementioned clear subtitles to these four aspects in the revised manuscript.

      (6) Lines 193, another example of the very confusing statement: "The results suggested that the loss of total LDH concentration was compensated.."

      The actual catalytic activity (reaction rate) of LDH is determined by both its enzyme concentration and substrate concentration (pyruvate and NADH). When the total LDH protein concentration (enzyme amount) in the cell is reduced through gene knockout, the reaction equilibrium is disrupted. To maintain sufficient lactate production flux to support a high glycolysis rate, the cell compensates by increasing the concentration of one of the substrates—free NADH (as shown in Figure 1I). This results in an increased substrate concentration, despite a reduction in the amount of enzyme, thus partially maintaining the overall reaction rate.

      We have revised the original statement to more accurately describe this kinetic equilibrium process: "The decrease in total LDH concentration was counterbalanced by a concomitant increase in the concentration of its substrate, free NADH, thereby maintaining the reaction velocity.”

      (7) Line 222-223: "did not or marginally significantly affect....”

      Our intention is to reflect the complexity of the data in Figure 1. Specifically: Regarding "did not affect": This means that there were no statistically significant differences in most key parameters, such as glycolytic flux (glucose consumption rate, lactate production rate). Regarding "or marginally significantly affected": This means that in a few indicators, although statistical calculations showed p-values less than 0.05, the absolute value of the difference was very small, with limited biological significance.

      To clarify this, we rewrite it as: "...did not significantly affect glucose-derived pyruvate entering into TCA cycle, neither significantly affect mitochondrial respiration, although statistically significant but minimal changes were observed in a few specific parameters (e.g., m3-pyruvate% in medium).”

      (8) It is very confusing to use the same colors for three GNE-140 drug concentrations (Figure 2a-b) and for 3 different cell lines right next to each other (Figure 2c-d).

      The figures have been revised accordingly.

      (9) Lines 263-273: nothing is new here as oxidized NAD+ is required for run glycolysis and LDH inhibition/KO leads to a high NADH/NAD+ ratio; Also below it is well known that reductive stress blocks serine biosynthesis;

      It is well established that oxidized NAD<sup>+</sup> is required for glycolysis, that LDH inhibition or knockout increases the NADH/NAD<sup>+</sup> ratio, and that reductive stress can suppress serine biosynthesis. We did not intend to present these observations as novel.

      The key point of this section is not the qualitative requirement of NAD<sup>+</sup> for GAPDH, but rather the mechanistic alignment between LDH inhibition, changes in free NAD<sup>+</sup> availability, and the emergence of GAPDH as a flux-controlling step within the glycolytic pathway under steady-state conditions. Previous studies have largely treated the increase in NADH/NAD<sup>+</sup> following LDH inhibition as a correlative or downstream effect, without directly demonstrating how this redox shift quantitatively propagates upstream to reorganize glycolytic flux distribution and thermodynamic driving forces.

      In our study, we explicitly link LDH inhibition to (i) an increase in free NADH/NAD<sup>+</sup> ratio, (ii) inhibition of GAPDH activity in intact cells, (iii) accumulation of upstream glycolytic intermediates, (iv) suppression of serine biosynthesis from 3-phosphoglycerate, and critically, (v) coordinated shifts in the Gibbs free energies of reactions between PFK1 and PGAM. This integrated kinetic–thermodynamic framework goes beyond the established qualitative understanding of NAD<sup>+</sup> dependence and provides a pathway-level mechanism by which LDH activity controls glycolytic flux.

      (10) Lines 368-370: "... we reached an alternative interpretation of the data.."- does not provide much confidence.

      Our intention was to prudently emphasize that we proposed a new interpretation based on detailed data, differing from conventional views. Our interpretation is grounded in key and consistent evidence from dual isotope tracing experiments using [<sup>13</sup>C<sub>6</sub>]glucose and [<sup>13</sup>C<sub>5</sub>]glutamine: The [<sup>13</sup>C<sub>6</sub>]glucose tracing data: the labeling pattern of citrate, the starting product of TCA cycle, showed a significant decrease in m+2 %. This directly reflects a reduction in the flux of newly generated acetyl-CoA from glucose entering the TCA cycle. Simultaneously, the sum of other isotopologues % (m+1/ m+3/ m+4/m+5/m+6) increased, indicating a longer retention time of the labeled carbon in the cycle, implying a simultaneous decrease in the flux of cycle intermediates effluxed for biosynthesis. [<sup>13</sup>C<sub>5</sub>]Glutamine tracing data: the labeling pattern of α-ketoglutarate showed a decrease in m+5 %, indicating a reduction in glutamine replenishment flux. The pattern of change in the total percentage of other isotopologues % (m+1/ m+2/ m+3/m+4) also supports the conclusion of reduced intermediate product efflux.

      These two sets of data corroborate each other, pointing to a unified conclusion: LDH inhibition not only reduces carbon source inflow into the TCA cycle but also decreases intermediate product efflux, leading to a decrease in overall cycle activity. Therefore, our "alternative interpretation" is a well-supported and more consistent explanation of our overall experimental results. We revise the original wording to: "Integrated analysis of dual isotope tracing data demonstrates that LDH inhibition reduces both influx and efflux of the TCA cycle..."

      (11) Lines 418-421: This entire discussion on how TCA cycle activity is decreased upon LDH inhibition is very confusing. I also would like to see these tracer studies when ETC is inhibited with different inhibitors.

      We would like to clarify that the mitochondrial respiration rate data presented in Figure 5W are based on studies using different ETC inhibitors, and the cell treatment conditions (including culture time, etc.) for these oxygen consumption measurements are consistent with the conditions for the [<sup>13</sup>C<sub>6</sub>]glucose and [<sup>13</sup>C<sub>5</sub>]glutamine isotope tracing experiments (Figure 5A-V). Therefore, the changes in TCA cycle flux revealed by the tracing data and the inhibition of OXPHOS rate shown by the respiration measurements are mutually corroborating evidence from the same experimental conditions.

      (12) Figure 6F, G - very limited representation of growth curves, why not perform these experiments with all corresponding cell lines and over multiple days. Especially since proliferation arrest vs cell death was implicated.

      We have provided the growth curves of the HeLa-Ctrl and HeLa-LDHAKO cell lines under the corresponding treatments in Figure 6—figure supplement 1, as a supplement to Figure 6F, G (HeLa-LDHBKO cells). The choice of 48 hours as the cutoff observation point is based on clear biological evidence: under the stress of hypoxia (1% O<sub>2</sub>) combined with GNE-140 treatment, HeLa-LDHBKO cells experienced substantial death within 24 to 48 hours, at which point the differences in the growth curves were already very significant.

      (13) Move most of the Supplementary tables into an Excel file - so values can be easily accessed.

      We have compiled the tables into an Excel file and submitted it along with the revised manuscript as supplementary material.

      (14) Consider changing colors to more appealing- especially jarring is a bright blue, red, black combination on many bar graphs.

      We have adjusted the color scheme of the figures (especially the bar graphs) in the paper, and have submitted them with the revised manuscript.

      (15) Double check y-axis on multiple graphs it says "mM".

      We have checked y-axis, the unit (mM) is correct.

      (16) Instead TCA cycle use the TCA cycle.

      In the revised manuscript, TCA cycle is used.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, Chengjian Zhao et al. focused on the interactions between vascular, biliary, and neural networks in the liver microenvironment, addressing the critical bottleneck that the lack of high-resolution 3D visualization has hindered understanding of these interactions in liver disease.

      Strengths:

      This study developed a high-resolution multiplex 3D imaging method that integrates multicolor metallic compound nanoparticle (MCNP) perfusion with optimized CUBIC tissue clearing. This method enables the simultaneous 3D visualization of spatial networks of the portal vein, hepatic artery, bile ducts, and central vein in the mouse liver. The authors reported a perivascular structure termed the Periportal Lamellar Complex (PLC), which is identified along the portal vein axis. This study clarifies that the PLC comprises CD34<sup>+</sup>Sca-1<sup>+</sup> dual-positive endothelial cells with a distinct gene expression profile, and reveals its colocalization with terminal bile duct branches and sympathetic nerve fibers under physiological conditions.

      Comments on revisions:

      The authors very nicely addressed all concerns from this reviewer. There are no further concerns or comments.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for the positive evaluation of the revised manuscript.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The present manuscript of Xu et al. reports a novel clearing and imaging method focusing on the liver. The Authors simultaneously visualized the portal vein, hepatic artery, central vein, and bile duct systems by injected metal compound nanoparticles (MCNPs) with different colors into the portal vein, heart left ventricle, vena cava inferior and the extrahepatic bile duct, respectively. The method involves: trans-cardiac perfusion with 4% PFA, the injection of MCNPs with different colors, clearing with the modified CUBIC method, cutting 200 micrometer thick slices by vibratome, and then microscopic imaging. The Authors also perform various immunostaining (DAB or TSA signal amplification methods) on the tissue slices from MCNP-perfused tissue blocks. With the application of this methodical approach, the Authors report dense and very fine vascular branches along the portal vein. The authors name them as 'periportal lamellar complex (PLC)' and report that PLC fine branches are directly connected to the sinusoids. The authors also claim that these structures co-localize with terminal bile duct branches and sympathetic nerve fibers and contain endothelial cells with a distinct gene expression profile. Finally, the authors claim that PLC-s proliferate in liver fibrosis (CCl4 model) and act as scaffold for proliferating bile ducts in ductular reaction and for ectopic parenchymal sympathetic nerve sprouting.

      Strengths:

      The simultaneous visualization of different hepatic vascular compartments and their combination with immunostaining is a potentially interesting novel methodological approach.

      Weaknesses:

      This reviewer has some concerns about the validity of the microscopic/morphological findings as well as the transcriptomics results, and suggests that the conclusions of the paper may be critically viewed. Namely, at this point, it is still not fully clear that the 'periportal lamellar complex (PLC)' that the Authors describe really exists as a distinct anatomical or functional unit or these are fine portal branches that connect the larger portal veins into the adjacent sinusoid. Also, in my opinion, to identify the molecular characteristics of such small and spatially highly organized structures like those fine radial portal branches, the only way is to perform high-resolution spatial transcriptomics (instead of data mining in existing liver single cell database and performing Venn diagram intersection analysis in hepatic endothelial subpopulations). Yet, the existence of such structures with a distinct molecular profile cannot be excluded. Further research with advanced imaging and omics techniques (such as high resolution volume imaging, and spatial transcriptomics/proteomics) are needed to reproduce these initial findings.

      We thank the reviewer for the thoughtful and constructive comments. In response to the reviewer’s concerns regarding the anatomical and molecular definition of the periportal lamellar complex (PLC), we have further clarified the scope and methodological boundaries of the present study in the revised manuscript.

      Regarding the key question raised by the reviewer—namely, whether the PLC represents an independent anatomical or functional unit, or merely small portal venous branches connecting larger portal veins to adjacent sinusoids—we provide below a more detailed explanation of the criteria used to define the PLC in this study. The identification of the PLC is primarily based on periportal structures that can be reproducibly recognized by three-dimensional imaging across multiple mice, exhibiting a relatively consistent spatial distribution within the periportal region. The PLC could be stably observed across different MCNP dye color assignments and independent experimental batches. In addition, three-dimensional CD31 immunofluorescence consistently revealed vascular-associated signal distributions in the same periportal region, indirectly supporting its spatial association with the periportal vascular system.

      At the morphological level, the PLC appears as a periportal vasculature-associated structure distributed around the main portal vein trunk and maintains a relatively consistent spatial proximity to portal veins, bile ducts, and neural components in three-dimensional space. This highly conserved spatial organization across multiple tissue systems supports the anatomical positioning of the PLC as a relatively distinct structural tissue unit within the periportal region.

      The present study primarily focuses on a descriptive characterization of the three-dimensional anatomical organization and spatial relationships of the PLC based on volumetric imaging and vascular labeling strategies. As a complementary exploratory analysis, we reanalyzed endothelial cell populations potentially associated with the PLC using existing liver single-cell transcriptomic datasets. This analysis was intended to provide molecular-level information consistent with the structural observations and to offer preliminary clues to its potential biological functions, rather than to independently define the PLC at the spatial level or to functionally validate it.

      We fully acknowledge the value of spatial transcriptomic and spatial proteomic technologies in revealing molecular heterogeneity within tissue architecture. However, under current technical conditions, these approaches are largely dependent on thin tissue sections and are limited by spatial resolution and signal mixing effects, which still pose challenges for resolving periportal structures with pronounced three-dimensional continuity, such as the PLC. In the future, further integration of high-resolution volumetric imaging with spatial omics technologies may enable a more refined understanding of the molecular features and potential functions of the PLC at higher spatial resolution.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In the revised version of the manuscript authors addressed multiple comments, clarifying especially the methodological part of their work and PLC identification as a novel morphological feature of the adult liver portal veins. Tet is now also much clearer and has better flow.

      The additional assessment of the smartSeq2 data from Pietilä et al., 2025 strengthens the transcriptomic profiling of the CD34+Sca1+ cells and the discussion of the possible implications for the liver homeostasis and injury response. Why it may suffer from similar bias as other scRNA seq datasets - multiple cell fate signatures arising from mRNA contamination from proximal cells during dissociation, it is less likely that this would happen to yield so similar results.

      Nevertheless, a more thorough assessment by functional experimental approaches is needed to decipher the functional molecules and definite protein markers before establishing the PLC as the key hub governing the activity of biliary, arterial, and neuronal liver systems.

      The work does bring a clear new insight into the liver structure and functional units and greatly improves the methodological toolbox to study it even further, and thus fully deserves the attention of the Elife readers.

      Strengths:

      The authors clearly demonstrate an improved technique tailored to the visualization of the liver vasulo-biliary architecture in unprecedented resolution.

      This work proposes a new morphological feature of adult liver facilitating interaction between the portal vein, hepatic arteries, biliary tree, and intrahepatic innervation, centered at previously underappreciated protrusions of the portal veins - the Periportal Lamellar Complexes (PLCs).

      Weaknesses:

      The importance of CD34+Sca1+ endothelial cell subpopulation for PLC formation and function was not tested and warrants further validation.

      We thank the reviewer for the careful and constructive comments regarding the functional validation of cell populations associated with the PLC. The central aim of this study is to establish and validate a novel volumetric imaging and vascular labeling strategy and to apply it to the periportal region of the liver, thereby revealing previously underappreciated structural organizational patterns at the three-dimensional level, rather than to perform a systematic functional validation of specific cellular subpopulations.

      We agree that the precise roles of the CD34<sup>+</sup>Sca-1<sup>+</sup> endothelial cell subpopulation in the formation and function of the periportal lamellar complex (PLC) have not been directly addressed through functional intervention experiments in the present study. Our conclusions are primarily based on three-dimensional imaging and spatial distribution analyses, which reveal a stable and consistent spatial association between this cell population and the PLC structure, but are not intended to independently support causal or functional inferences. The underlying functional mechanisms remain to be elucidated in future studies using genetic or functional perturbation approaches.

      In light of these considerations, we have further refined the relevant statements in the revised manuscript to more clearly define the functional scope and limitations of the current study in the Discussion section, and to avoid functional interpretations that extend beyond the direct support of the data. At the same time, we consider functional validation of the PLC to be an important and promising direction for future investigation.

      It should be emphasized that the present study is not primarily designed to provide direct functional validation, but rather to systematically characterize the three-dimensional structural features of the periportal lamellar complex (PLC) and its cellular associations using volumetric imaging and vascular labeling approaches. At this stage, we mainly provide spatial and histological evidence for the organizational relationship between the PLC structure and the CD34<sup>+</sup>Sca-1<sup>+</sup> endothelial cell population, while their specific roles in PLC formation and functional regulation await further investigation.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I highly appreciate the Authors' endeavors to improve the manuscript. I am enlisting those points (from my original review) where I still have further comments.

      (2) I would suggest this sentence:

      "...the liver has evolved a highly complex and densely organized ductal vascular-neuronal network in the body, consisting primarily of the portal vein system, central vein system, hepatic artery system, biliary system, and intrahepatic autonomic nerve network [6, 7]."

      We thank the reviewer for the valuable suggestion. We have revised the relevant sentence accordingly, and the revised wording is as follows:

      “The liver has evolved a highly complex and densely organized vascular–biliary–neural network, primarily composed of the portal venous system, central venous system, hepatic arterial system, biliary system, and the intrahepatic autonomic neural network.”

      (3) I suggest renaming 'clearing efficiency' to 'clearing time', and revise the last sentence like:

      '...The results showed that the average transmittance increased by 20.12% in 1mm-thick cleared tissue slices.'

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful suggestion. Accordingly, we have replaced the term “clearing efficiency” with “clearing time” and revised the final sentence to reflect this change. The revised wording is as follows:

      “The results showed that the average transmittance increased by 20.12% in cleared tissue slices with a thickness of 1 mm.”

      (4) While the dye perfusion was indeed on full lobe, FigS1F also seems to be rather a thick section instead of a full 3d reconstruction. This is OK, but please, be clear and specific about this in the respective part of the ms.

      We thank the reviewer for the careful review and detailed comments. We would like to clarify that Fig. S1F shows whole-lobe imaging of the mouse left liver lobe obtained after dye perfusion at the whole-liver scale, rather than an image derived from a thick tissue section. Although this image does not represent a three-dimensional reconstruction, it does reflect imaging of the entire left liver lobe at the macroscopic level.

      In addition, for the reviewer’s reference, we have provided in this response a representative image of a 200 μm-thick liver tissue section to directly illustrate the morphological differences between thick-section imaging and whole-lobe imaging. We note that the third and fourth panels in Fig. 1G of the main text already show local imaging results from 200 μm-thick sections; in contrast, the comparative image provided here presents a larger field of view and overall morphology. To avoid redundancy, this additional image is included solely for clarification in the present response and has not been incorporated into the revised manuscript or the supplementary materials.

      (11) Regarding the 'transmission quantification':

      'Regarding the comparative quantification of different clearing methods, as the reviewer noted, nearly all aqueous or organic solvent based clearing techniques can achieve relatively uniform transparency in 1 mm thick tissue sections, so differences at this thickness are limited.'

      So, based on all these, I think, measuring/comparisons of clearing efficacy in the present form are kind of pointless --- one may consider omitting this part.

      We thank the reviewer for the valuable comments. The purpose of the transmittance quantification in this study was not to provide a comprehensive comparison among different tissue-clearing methods, but rather to serve as a quantitative reference supporting the optimization of the Liver-CUBIC protocol. Accordingly, we have narrowed and clarified the relevant statements in the revised manuscript to define their scope and avoid overinterpretation.

      The revised text now reads as follows:

      “Importantly, Liver-CUBIC treatment did not induce significant tissue expansion (Figure 1B–D). In addition, quantitative transmittance measurements in 1-mm-thick cleared tissue slices showed an average increase of 20.12% (P < 0.0001; 95% CI: 19.14–21.09; Figure 1E).”

      Author response image 1.

      (16) It is OK, but please, indicate this clearly in the Methods/Results because in its present form it may be confusing for the reader: which color means what.

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful request for clarification. We agree that the previous wording may have caused confusion regarding the meaning of different MCNP colors. Accordingly, we have revised the Methods section and the relevant figure legends to clearly state that the color assignment of MCNP dyes is not fixed across different experiments or figures. The use of different colors serves solely for visualization and presentation purposes, facilitating the distinction of anatomical structures in multichannel and three-dimensional imaging, and does not indicate any fixed or intrinsic correspondence between a specific color and a particular vascular or ductal system. We believe that this clarification will help prevent misinterpretation and improve the overall clarity of the manuscript.

      (17) Still I think the hepatic artery is extremely shrunk, while the portal vein is extremely dilated. Please, note that in the referring figure (from Adori et al), hepatic artery and portal vein are ca 50 micrometers and 250 micrometers in diameter, respectively. In your figure, as I see, ca. 9-10 micrometers and 125 micrometers, respectively. This means 5x (Adori) vs. 13-14x differences (you). I would not say that this is necessarily problematic --- but may reflect some perfusion issues that may be good to consider.

      We thank the reviewer for the careful comparison and acknowledge the quantitative differences pointed out. Compared with the study by Adori et al., the diameter ratio between the hepatic artery and the portal vein in our images does indeed differ to some extent. We believe that this discrepancy primarily arises from methodological differences in imaging and analysis strategies between the two studies.

      In the work by Adori et al., periportal vasculature identification and three-dimensional segmentation were mainly based on 488 nm autofluorescence signals acquired from inverted tissues. This signal predominantly reflects the overall outline of periportal tissue regions rather than direct imaging of the vascular lumen itself. Consequently, the measured “vessel diameter” largely represents a spatial domain delineated by surrounding periportal structures, and does not necessarily correspond to the actual or functional luminal diameter of the vessel.

      In contrast, the present study employed fluorescent MCNP dye perfusion under low perfusion pressure, combined with tissue clearing and three-dimensional optical imaging. Under these experimental conditions, the measured vessel diameters more closely reflect the perfusable luminal space of vessels in a fixed state, rather than their maximally dilated diameter, and are not defined by the morphology of surrounding tissues. This distinction is particularly relevant for the hepatic artery: as a high-resistance, smooth muscle–rich vessel, its diameter is highly sensitive to perfusion pressure and post-excision changes in vascular tone. In comparison, the portal vein exhibits greater compliance and is relatively less affected by these factors.

      Based on these methodological differences, the observation of relatively smaller apparent hepatic arterial diameters—and consequently a higher arterial-to-portal vein diameter ratio—under dye perfusion–based optical imaging conditions is an expected outcome. Importantly, the primary focus of the present study is the identification and characterization of the periportal lamellar complex (PLC) as a three-dimensional lamellar tissue structure that can be stably and reproducibly recognized across different samples and imaging conditions, rather than absolute comparisons of vascular diameters.

      (21) After the presented documentation, I still have some concerns that the 'periportal lamellar complex (PLC)' that the Authors describe is really a distinct anatomical or functional unit. The confocal panel in Fig. 4F is nice and high quality. However, as far as I see, it shows that CD34+/Sca-1+ immunostaining is not specific for the presumptive PLCs in the peri-portal region. Instead, Sca-1 immunoreactivity is highly abundant also in the midzone --- to which the supposed PLCs do not extend, according to the cartoon shown in panel D, same figure. Notably, this questions also the specificity of the single cell analysis.

      We thank the reviewer for this detailed and important comment regarding the specificity of CD34<sup>+</sup>/Sca-1<sup>+</sup> markers and the definition of the periportal lamellar complex (PLC).

      It should be emphasized that the PLC is not defined on the basis of any single molecular marker, but rather by a reproducible periportal lamellar anatomical structure consistently revealed by three-dimensional imaging across multiple samples. The co-expression of CD34 and Sca-1 is interpreted within this clearly defined anatomical context and is used to characterize the molecular features of endothelial cells associated with the PLC structure.

      As shown in Fig. 4F, the co-expression of CD34 and Sca-1 delineates a continuous, lamellar endothelial structure surrounding the portal vein. In contrast, outside the periportal region—including the midlobular areas—Sca-1 or CD34 expression can also be detected, but these signals appear scattered and discontinuous, lacking an organized lamellar topology.

      In the single-cell transcriptomic analysis, we treated CD34<sup>+</sup>/Sca-1<sup>+</sup> endothelial cells as an operational population to explore molecular features that may be enriched in the microenvironment of the periportal lamellar complex (PLC). Importantly, this analysis was intended to provide molecular clues associated with the PLC, rather than to precisely assign spatial locations or identities to individual cells.

      Occasional isolated Sca-1<sup>+</sup> signals detected outside the periportal region do not affect the anatomical definition of the PLC, nor do they alter the interpretation of the single-cell analysis. These analyses serve to provide supportive and exploratory molecular information for the structural identification of the PLC, rather than constituting decisive spatial evidence.

      (23) '....In the manuscript, we have carefully stated that this analysis is exploratory in nature and have avoided overinterpretation. In future studies, high-resolution spatial omics approaches will be invaluable for more precisely delineating the molecular characteristics of these fine structures.'

      I do not find these statements either in the Discussion or in the Results. I must reiterate my opinion that the applied methodical approach in the single cell transcriptomics part has severe limitations, and the readers must be aware of this.

      We thank the reviewer for this further comment. We understand and acknowledge the reviewer’s concerns regarding the methodological limitations of single-cell transcriptomic analyses, and we agree that these limitations should be clearly communicated to readers in the main text.

      We acknowledge that in the previous version of the manuscript, the exploratory nature of the single-cell transcriptomic analysis and its methodological boundaries were discussed only in the response to reviewers and were not explicitly stated in the manuscript itself. We thank the reviewer for pointing out this omission. In the revised manuscript, we have now added explicit clarifications in the main text to prevent potential overinterpretation of these results.

      In the present study, our primary effort is focused on the descriptive characterization of the three-dimensional anatomical organization and spatial relationships of the PLC using volumetric imaging and vascular labeling strategies. As a complementary exploratory analysis, we reanalyzed existing liver single-cell transcriptomic datasets to examine endothelial cell populations exhibiting PLC-associated features, and performed differential gene expression and Gene Ontology enrichment analyses. Importantly, these results are intended to provide molecular-level support for the structural identification of the PLC and to offer preliminary insights into its potential biological functions. Accordingly, we have narrowed the presentation and interpretation of the single-cell analysis in both the Results and Discussion sections of the revised manuscript.

      In addition, we have expanded the Discussion to address the limitations of current spatial transcriptomic approaches in validating a continuous three-dimensional structure such as the PLC. Most existing spatial transcriptomic methods rely on two-dimensional tissue sections of 8–10 μm thickness, whereas identification of the PLC depends on three-dimensional imaging of tissue volumes with thicknesses of ≥200 μm, making reliable reconstruction of its spatial continuity from single sections challenging. Furthermore, because each spatial transcriptomic capture spot often encompasses multiple adjacent cells, signal mixing effects further limit precise resolution of specific periportal microstructures.

      Overall, we agree with the reviewer’s central point that the limitations of single-cell transcriptomic analyses should be clearly understood by readers. By explicitly clarifying the methodological boundaries and refining the related statements in the main text, we believe this concern has now been adequately addressed in the revised manuscript. We thank the reviewer for identifying this omission, which has helped to improve the rigor and clarity of the study.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) While interesting observations, suitable for discussion, the following sections are speculations, given that no functional characterization of PLC importance has been performed yet. This is the most felt when commenting on the role in hematopoiesis, which transiently takes place in the liver during embryogenesis (Khan et al 2016) but ceases to exist after ligation of the umbilical inlet. Adult Liver hematopoiesis remains controversial, and more solid evidence would need to be presented to support its existence in PLC regions.

      265 - These findings suggest that the Periportal Lamellar Complex (PLC) is not only a morphologically and spatially distinct, low-permeability vascular unit surrounding the portal vein, but also likely serves as a critical nexus connecting the portal vein, hepatic artery, and liver sinusoids. Thus, the PLC constitutes a key node within the interactive vascular network of the mouse liver.

      We thank the reviewer for the comments and suggestions regarding the potential functional interpretation of the periportal lamellar complex (PLC), particularly its possible association with hematopoietic function. We would like to clarify that the statement on page 265 was intended solely to describe the structural characteristics and spatial organization of the PLC within the periportal vascular network. Specifically, the original wording aimed to summarize the morphological features of the PLC and its spatial relationships among the portal vein, hepatic artery, and hepatic sinusoids.

      Nevertheless, to minimize potential misunderstanding, we have revised this section to avoid unnecessary functional implications. The revised text now reads:

      “These results suggest that the periportal lamellar complex (PLC) is a morphologically and spatially distinct vascular structure that surrounds the portal vein and may serve as a key organizational node coordinating the spatial relationships among the portal vein, hepatic artery, and hepatic sinusoids. Accordingly, the PLC represents an important structural element within the interactive vascular network of the mouse liver.”

      This revision preserves the structural significance of the PLC while avoiding overinterpretation of its functional roles.

      (2) The same is true also for this section, following Figure 3 - no functional experiment tested this. For example, diphtheria toxin is expressed in the CD34+Sca1+ population. Or at least a careful mapping of the developing liver, which would indicate if the PLC precedes or follows the BD development.

      356 as a spatial positional cue guiding bile duct growth and branching but also as a regulatory node involved in coordinating bile drainage from the hepatic lobule into the biliary network.

      To avoid potential misunderstanding, we have further refined and revised the statements in the manuscript regarding the functional interpretation of the periportal lamellar complex (PLC) and its relationship to bile duct development. We agree that cell ablation strategies are of great importance for functional validation studies. However, it should be noted that CD34 and Sca-1 are relatively broadly expressed markers during liver development, labeling multiple endothelial, mesenchymal, and progenitor cell populations, and their expression is not restricted to the PLC. Owing to this broad expression pattern, ablation of CD34<sup>+</sup>Sca-1<sup>+</sup> cell populations would likely exert widespread effects on vascular and stromal structures, thereby complicating the distinction between direct PLC-specific effects and secondary developmental alterations. As such, this strategy may present technical limitations for specifically dissecting the role of the PLC in bile duct development. At the same time, given that the primary objective of this study is the systematic characterization of the three-dimensional anatomical features and spatial organization of the PLC, we have correspondingly revised the manuscript to restrict statements regarding the relationship between the PLC and bile ducts to spatial associations supported by the current data. Specifically, our results show that primary bile ducts run along the main portal vein trunk, secondary bile ducts exhibit directed branching toward the PLC region, and terminal bile duct branches tend to spatially cluster in the vicinity of the PLC, thereby forming a reproducible periportal spatial arrangement. Based on these observations, the PLC delineates a relatively conserved anatomical microenvironment within the portal region, whose spatial position is closely associated with the organization and terminal distribution of the intrahepatic bile duct network.

      We believe that these revisions more accurately reflect the experimental evidence and the defined scope of the present study.

      (3) The following statement ought to be rephrased or skipped, considering that CD34 and Sca1 (Ly6a) are markers of periportal endothelial cells (Pietilä et al., 2025, Gómez-Salinero et al., 2022) and as shown by the authors in their own Fig. 6D. In this context and the context of the CCL4 experiments, a "simple" proliferative progenitor portal vein endothelial cell phenotype, suggested also by the presence of DLL4 (Fig5A) and JAG1 (Pietilä et al., 2025) (Benedito et al., 2009) ought to be considered.

      409 Notably, CD34 and Sca-1 (Ly6a) were co-expressed exclusively within PLC structures surrounding the portal vein, but absent from central vein ECs and midzonal LSECs (Figure 4F).

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out the potential imprecision in this wording. We agree that both CD34 and Sca-1 (Ly6a) are well-established markers of periportal endothelial cells, as previously reported (Pietilä et al., 2025; Gómez-Salinero et al., 2022), and as also illustrated in Fig. 4F of our study.

      Accordingly, the original statement suggesting that CD34 and Sca-1 are co-expressed exclusively within the PLC structure may indeed represent an overinterpretation. Following the reviewer’s suggestion, we have revised the relevant text on page 409 by removing the exclusive phrasing (“only in”) and by emphasizing instead that CD34<sup>+</sup>Sca-1<sup>+</sup> endothelial cells are enriched in periportal regions associated with the PLC, rather than being specific to or confined within the PLC.

      In addition, in the context of the CCl<sub>4</sub>-induced liver fibrosis model, we agree with the reviewer that the observed expression of DLL4 and JAG1 under fibrotic conditions is more appropriately interpreted as reflecting an activated or proliferative periportal endothelial progenitor–like phenotype, rather than defining a novel endothelial lineage. The corresponding statements in the revised manuscript have been adjusted accordingly.

      (4) Again, these concluding sentences are based on correlative evidence of mRNA expression and literature but not experimental evidence.

      436 These findings suggest that this unique endothelial cell subset in the periportal region may possess dual regulatory functions in both metabolic and hematopoietic modulation

      441 results suggest that PLC endothelial cells may not only regulate periportal microcirculatory blood flow but also help establish a specialized microenvironment that potentially supports periportal hematopoietic regulation, contributing to stem cell recruitment, vascular homeostasis, and tissue repair.

      We thank the reviewer for this thoughtful comment. We agree that these statements are primarily based on transcriptomic correlation analyses and support from previous literature, rather than direct functional experimental evidence.

      Accordingly, in the revised manuscript, we have appropriately toned down and adjusted the relevant concluding statements to more accurately reflect their inferential nature. The revised wording emphasizes associations and potential involvement, rather than definitive functional roles. These changes preserve the overall scientific interpretation while aligning the level of inference more closely with the available evidence.

      The revised text now reads:

      “Finally, we found that the main trunk of the PLC is primarily composed of CD34<sup>+</sup>Sca-1<sup>+</sup>CD31<sup>+</sup> endothelial cells (Fig. 4J). These CD34<sup>+</sup>Sca-1<sup>+</sup> double-positive cells are mainly distributed in the basal region of the PLC structure and exhibit molecular features associated with hematopoiesis. Taken together, these results suggest that PLC endothelial cells may contribute to the establishment of a local microenvironment related to periportal hematopoietic regulation and may play potential roles in stem cell recruitment and maintenance of vascular homeostasis.”

      (5) The following part is speculative and based on re-analysis from the dataset that was gathered after 6 more weeks of CCL4 treatment (12weeks Su et al., 2021), then in the linked experiments from the manuscript. And should be moved to discussion or removed.

      504 Moreover, single-cell transcriptomic re-analysis revealed significant upregulation of bile duct-related genes in the CD34<sup>+</sup>Sca-1<sup>+</sup> endothelium of PLC in fibrotic liver, with notably high expression of Lgals1 (Galectin-1) and Hgf (Figure 5G). Previous studies have shown that Galectin-1 is absent in normal liver parenchyma but highly expressed in intrahepatic cholangiocarcinoma (ICC), correlating with tumor dedifferentiation and invasion (Bacigalupo, Manzi, Rabinovich, & Troncoso, 2013; Shimonishi et al., 2001). Additionally, hepatocyte growth factor (HGF), particularly in combination with epidermal growth factor (EGF) in 3D cultures, promotes hepatic progenitor cells to form bile duct-polarized cystic structures (N. Tanimizu, Miyajima, & Mostov, 2007). Together, these findings suggest the PLC endothelium may act as a key regulator of bile duct branching and fibrotic microenvironment remodeling in liver fibrosis.

      Collectively, our results demonstrate that the PLC, situated between the portal vein and periportal sinusoidal endothelium, constitutes a critical vascular microenvironmental unit. It may not only colocalize with bile duct branches under normal physiological conditions, but also through its basal CD34<sup>+</sup>Sca-1<sup>+</sup> double-positive endothelial cells, potentially orchestrate bile duct epithelial proliferation, branching morphogenesis, and bile acid transport homeostasis via multiple signaling pathways. Particularly during liver fibrosis progression, the PLC exhibits dynamic structural extension, serving as a spatial scaffold facilitating terminal bile duct migration and expansion into the hepatic parenchyma (Figure 5H). These findings highlight the PLC endothelial cell population and the vascular-bile duct interface as key regulatory hubs in bile duct regeneration, tissue repair, and pathological remodeling, providing novel cellular and molecular insights for understanding bile duct-related diseases such as ductular reaction, cholangiocarcinoma, and cholestatic disorders, and offering potential targets for therapeutic intervention.

      We thank the reviewer for this careful and thought-provoking comment. We understand and agree with the reviewer’s assessment that this section involves a degree of inference, as the analysis is based on a re-analysis of a previously published single-cell transcriptomic dataset from a CCl<sub>4</sub>-induced liver fibrosis model (Su et al., 2021), rather than on experimental data directly generated in the present study.

      In response to the reviewer’s suggestion, we have carefully re-examined and revised the relevant paragraphs. Without altering the overall structure of the manuscript, we have appropriately moderated the wording to clarify that these results primarily describe the transcriptional features of PLC-associated CD34<sup>+</sup>Sca-1<sup>+</sup> endothelial cells under fibrotic conditions, and their associations with bile duct–related gene expression, rather than providing direct functional evidence for their roles in bile duct branching or microenvironmental remodeling.

      In addition, we have explicitly clarified in the main text the data source and methodological limitations of the single-cell transcriptomic analysis, and emphasized that these findings should be interpreted in conjunction with the spatial information revealed by three-dimensional imaging. Through these revisions, we aim to retain the value of this analysis in providing complementary molecular insight into PLC characteristics, while avoiding potential over-interpretation of its functional implications.

      Formal suggestions:

      (6) The following sentence would benefit from being more clearly written.

      263 - The formation of PLC structures in the adventitial layer may participate in local blood flow regulation, maintenance of microenvironmental homeostasis.

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful suggestion. The sentence has been revised to improve clarity by correcting the parallel structure and refining the wording.

      The formation of PLC structures in the adventitial layer may participate in local blood flow regulation and the maintenance of microenvironmental homeostasis.

      (7) The following sentence is misleading as it implies cell sorting, and "subsetted" rather than "sorted" should be used.

      414 Based on this, we sorted CD34<sup>+</sup>Sca-1<sup>+</sup> endothelial populations from the total liver EC pool (Figure 4G).

      Thank you for your comment.

      We have revised the term as suggested. This avoids the misleading implication of physical sorting, as our operation was analytical subsetting of the target subpopulation.

      We appreciate your careful review.

      (8) Correct typos, especially in the results section related to Fig. 6. and formatting issues in the discussion.

      730 Morphologically, the PLC shares features with previously described telocytes (TCs)- 731 a recently identified class of interstitial cells in the liver observed via transmission electron

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out this textual error. In the submitted version, the sentence describing the morphological similarity between the PLC and previously reported telocytes was inadvertently interrupted due to a punctuation issue. This has now been corrected to ensure sentence integrity and consistent formatting.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study by Xu et al. focuses on the impact of clathrin-independent endocytosis in cancer cells on T cell activation. In particular, by using a combination of biochemical approaches and imaging, the authors identify ICAM1, the ligand for T cell-expressed integrin LFA-1, as a novel cargo for EndoA3-mediated endocytosis. Subsequently, the authors aim to identify functional implications for T cell activation, using a combination of cytokine assays and imaging experiments.

      They find that the absence of EndoA3 leads to a reduction in T cell-produced cytokine levels. Additionally, they observe slightly reduced levels of ICAM1 at the immunological synapse and an enlarged contact area between T cells and cancer cells. Taken together, the authors propose a mechanism where EndoA3-mediated endocytosis of ICAM1, followed by retrograde transport, supplies the immunological synapse with ICAM1. In the absence of EndoA3, T cells attempt to compensate for suboptimal ICAM1 levels at the synapse by enlarging their contact area, which proves insufficient and leads to lower levels of T cell activation.

      Strengths:

      The authors utilize a rigorous and innovative experimental approach that convincingly identifies ICAM1 as a novel cargo for Endo3A-mediated endocytosis.

      Weaknesses:

      The characterization of the effects of Endo3A absence on T cell activation appears incomplete. Key aspects, such as surface marker upregulation, T cell proliferation, integrin signalling and most importantly, the killing of cancer cells, are not comprehensively investigated.

      We agree with the reviewer that the effects of EndoA3 depletion on T cell activation were not characterized enough. In new data presented in Fig.S4G-J, we explored additional activation markers and proliferation parameters. We didn’t observe any difference for the surface markers PD-1, CD137 and Tim-3 between LB33-MEL EndoA3+ cells treated with control and EndoA3 siRNAs. Regarding proliferation (Fig. S4J), although the proliferation index seems slightly lower upon EndoA3 depletion, we didn’t observe any significant difference either. Degranulation has also been monitored (Fig. S4K), but we didn’t observe any significant differences. In the new Fig. 3F however, we performed chromium release assays to assess the killing of cancer cells. Very interestingly, we observed an ~15% higher lysis of LB33-MEL EndoA3+ cells after EndoA3 depletion, when compared to the control condition at a ratio of 3:1 T cells:target cells (where the maximal effect is observed). These data are further discussed in the discussion section (new §6-9).

      As Endo- and exocytosis are intricately linked with the biophysical properties of the cellular membrane (e.g. membrane tension), which can significantly impact T-cell activation and cytotoxicity, the authors should address this possibility and ideally address it experimentally to some degree.

      Evaluating changes in the biophysical properties of cancer cell plasma membrane upon EndoA3 depletion is not trivial. An indirect way to address this question is by observing the area and shape of cells after siRNA treatment. In the new data added in the new Fig. S4B-D, we compared the area, aspect ratio and roundness of LB33-MEL EndoA3+ cells treated with negative control or EndoA3 siRNAs. While we observed a slight cell area reduction upon EndoA3 depletion, no significant changes were observed regarding the aspect ratio and the roundness. Hence, we think that the biophysical properties of cancer cells are not drastically modified by EndoA3 depletion.

      Crucially, key literature relevant to this research, addressing the role of ICAM1 endocytosis in antigen-presenting cells, has not been taken into consideration.

      We thank the reviewer for this important point. We have now considered and cited the relevant literature (Discussion, Page no.9).

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript by Xu et al. studies the relevance of endophilin A3-dependent endocytosis and retrograde transport of immune synapse components and in the activation of cytotoxic CD8 T cells. First, the authors show that ICAM1 and ALCAM, known components of immune synapses, are endocytosed via endoA3-dependent endocytosis and retrogradely transported to the Golgi. The authors then show that blocking internalization or retrograde trafficking reduces the activation of CD8 T cells. Moreover, this diminished CD8 T cell activation resulted in the formation of an enlarged immune synapse with reduced ICAM1 recruitment.

      Strengths:

      The authors show a novel EndoA3-dependent endocytic cargo and provide strong evidence linking EndoA3 endocytosis to the retrograde transport of ALCAM and ICAM1.

      Weaknesses:

      The role of EndoA3 in the process of T cell activation is shown in a cell that requires exogenous expression of this gene. Moreover, the authors claim that their findings are important for polarized redistribution of cargoes, but failed to show convincingly that the cargoes they are studying are polarized in their experimental system. The statistics of the manuscript also require some refinement.

      We fully acknowledge that the requirement for exogenous expression of EndoA3 in our immunological model represents a limitation of our study. Unfortunately, it remains challenging to identify cancer cell lines for which autologous CD8 T cells are available and that endogenously express all molecular players investigated (in particular EndoA3). At this stage, we do not have access to any other cancer cell line/autologous CD8⁺ T cell pairs that are sufficiently well characterized. In future studies, it would be valuable to investigate tumor types with high endogenous EndoA3 expression (such as glioblastomas, gliomas, and head and neck cancers) for which autologous CD8 T cells could be obtained, but this remains technically challenging.

      To address the reviewer’s second point regarding polarized redistribution of cargoes, we have added new data in the new Figure 4 and Movies S8-9. Using high-speed spinningdisk live-cell confocal microscopy, we captured the movement of ICAM1-positive tubulovesicular carriers in cancer cells at the moment of contact with CD8 T cells. Capturing such events is technically challenging, as T cell–cancer cell contacts form randomly and transiently. Successful imaging requires that the cancer cell be well spread and express ICAM1–GFP at an optimal level (as it is transiently expressed as a GFP-tagged construct), while acquisition must occur precisely at the moment when the T cell initiates contact. Despite these technical constraints, we successfully imaged early stages of immune synapse formation, enabling visualization of ICAM1 vesicular transport.

      The data reveal a flux of ICAM1-positive carriers emerging from the perinuclear region (corresponding to the Golgi area) and moving toward the contact site with the CD8 T cell, with fusion events of vesicles occurring at the developing immune synapse. AI-based segmentation and tracking analyses showed that ICAM1-positive carrier trajectories were predominantly oriented toward the forming immune synapse, whereas carriers moving toward other cellular regions were markedly less frequent. These results provide direct evidence for polarized ICAM1 transport via vesicular trafficking toward the immune synapse.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Shiqiang Xu and colleagues have examined the importance of ICAM-1 and ALCAM internalization and retrograde transport in cancer cells on the formation of a polarized immunological synapse with cytotoxic CD8+ T cells. They find that internalization is mediated by Endophilin A3 (EndoA3) while retrograde transport to the Golgi apparatus is mediated by the retromer complex. The paper is building on previous findings from corresponding author Henri-François Renard showing that ALCAM is an EndoA3dependent cargo in clathrin-independent endocytosis.

      Strengths:

      The work is interesting as it describes a novel mechanism by which cancer cells might influence CD8+ T cell activation and immunological synapse formation, and the authors have used a variety of cell biology and immunology methods to study this. However, there are some aspects of the paper that should be addressed more thoroughly to substantiate the conclusions made by the authors.

      Weaknesses:

      In Figure 2A-B, the authors show micrographs from live TIRF movies of HeLa and LB33MEL cells stably expressing EndoA3-GFP and transiently expressing ICAM-1-mScarlet. The ICAM-1 signal appears diffuse across the plasma membrane while the EndoA3 signal is partially punctate and partially lining the edge of membrane patches. Previous studies of EndoA3-mediated endocytosis have indicated that this can be observed as transient cargo-enriched puncta on the cell surface. In the present study, there is only one example of such an ICAM-1 and EndoA3 positive punctate event. Other examples of overlapping signals between ICAM-1 and EndoA3 are shown, but these either show retracting ICAM1 positive membrane protrusions or large membrane patches encircled by EndoA3. While these might represent different modes of EndoA3-mediated ICAM-1 internalization, any conclusion on this would require further investigation.

      We agree with the reviewer that the pattern of cargoes during endocytosis (puncta vs large patches) as observed by live-cell TIRF microscopy may be confusing. Actually, a punctate pattern has been observed quasi systematically when we monitored the uptake of endogenous cargoes via antibody uptake assays (whatever the imaging approach: TIRF, spinning-disk, classical confocal or lattice light-sheet microscopy). For example:

      - ALCAM: Fig.1e-h, Supplementary Figure 5 and Supplementary Movies 1-3 and 6 in Renard et al. 2020, https://doi.org/10.1038/s41467-020-15303-y; Fig.1D and Movie 2 in Tyckaert et al. 2022, https://doi.org/10.1242/jcs.259623.

      - L1CAM: Fig.2 and 3D, Movies S1-4 in Lemaigre et al. 2023, https://doi.org/10.1111/tra.12883.

      In rare examples, bigger clusters of antibodies were observed, where EndoA3 was observed to surround them, delineate them in a “lasso-like” pattern, and the clusters were progressively taken up:

      - ALCAM: Supplementary Movie 4 in Renard et al. 2020, https://doi.org/10.1038/s41467-020-15303-y.

      However, bigger patches of cargoes were more often observed when uptake was observed using transient expression of GFP-/mCherry-tagged versions of cargoes. In these cases, EndoA3 was predominantly observed to delineate cargo patches as a “lasso-like” pattern, progressively triming those patches leading to endocytosis. For example:

      - L1CAM: Fig.3E, Movie S5-7 in Lemaigre et al. 2023, https://doi.org/10.1111/tra.12883.

      - We also observed this pattern with CD166-GFP (unpublished).

      The fact that we observed rather patches than punctate patterns upon transient expression of fluorescently-tagged constructs of cargoes is likely due to the elevated expression level of the cargoes.

      Therefore, the patchy pattern observed for ICAM1 and ALCAM, transiently expressed in fusion with fluorescent proteins, and surrounded by EndoA3 in Fig.2A-B and old Movies S1-3, is not surprising. Of note, upon anti-ALCAM antibody uptake, we observed a more punctate pattern (Fig.2C), as previously described. Unfortunately, the lower quality of commercial anti-ICAM1 antibody did not allow us to proceed to uptake assays as for ALCAM.

      Regarding Fig.S2 and old Movies S4-5, we agree with the reviewer that these data may be misleading, as they represent phenomena happening at protrusions and contact zones between two adjacent cells. We have now replaced these images with other examples where we avoid contact zones (Fig.S2 and new Movies S5-7).

      These different patterns (patches vs dots) are still unexplained at the current stage, and may indeed represent different modes of endocytosis. We think these various patterns may depend on the abundance/expression level of cargoes and their degree of clustering. This will be investigated in future studies. Still, whatever the pattern, these data demonstrate and confirm the association between EndoA3 and cargoes (such as ICAM1 or ALCAM), even in the absence of antibodies.

      Moreover, in Figure 2C-E, uptake of the previously established EndoA3 endocytic cargo ALCAM is analyzed by quantifying total internal fluorescence in LB33-MEL cells of antibody labelled ALCAM following both overexpression and siRNA-mediated knockdown of EndoA3, showing increased and decreased uptake respectively. Why has not the same quantification been done for the proposed novel EndoA3 endocytic cargo ICAM-1? Furthermore, if endocytosis of ICAM-1 and ALCAM is diminished following EndoA3 knockdown, the expression level on the cell surface would presumably increase accordingly. This has been shown for ALCAM previously and should also be quantified for ICAM-1.

      As correctly pointed by the reviewer, anti-ICAM1 antibody uptake assays would have been great. We have tried to do them many times. Unfortunately, all commercial antibodies we tested did not yield satisfying results in uptake experiments. Either the labeling was too week/non-specific, or the antibody was not effectively stripped from the cell surface by acid washes, i.e. the acid-wash conditions required for efficient stripping were too harsh for the cells to tolerate. We have tried other approaches using the same commercial antibody which do not require acid washes (loss of surface assays by FACS, or uptake assays using surface protein biotinylation) or based on insertion of an Alfa-tag in the extracellular part of ICAM1 by CRISPR-Cas9 and detection of ICAM1 with an antiAlfa-tag nanobody (unpublished approach; collaboration with the lab of Prof. Leonardo Almeida-Souza, University of Helsinki, who developed the approach), but without success. However, we were more successful with the SNAP-tag-based approach to follow retrograde transport, for which the commercial anti-ICAM1 antibody worked properly. In Fig. 1F, we could show that retrograde transport of ICAM1 (and thus most likely its endocytosis step) was significantly decreased upon EndoA3 depletion in HeLa cells, indirectly demonstrating that ICAM1 is effectively an EndoA3-dependent cargo.

      Regarding the fact that surface level of ICAM1 should increase upon perturbation of EndoA3-mediated endocytosis, we agree with the reviewer that this could be an expected result. However, this is not necessarily systematic, as the surface level of a protein cargo is always the result of a balance between its endocytosis, recycling to plasma membrane, and lysosomal degradation. We also have to take into account the neosynthesized protein flux. One must also consider that multiple endocytic mechanisms exist in parallel, and that the perturbation of one mechanism (EndoA3-mediated CIE, here) may be partially compensated by others, as cargoes can often be taken up via multiple endocytic doors. Hence, an increased abundance at the cell surface is not always guaranteed upon endocytosis perturbation. Anyway, we measured the cell surface level of both ICAM1 and ALCAM in LB33-MEL EndoA3+ cells treated with negative control or EndoA3 siRNAs (Fig. S4E-F). Only minor differences were observed.

      In Figure 4A the authors show micrographs from a live-cell Airyscan movie (Movie S6) of a CD8+ T cell incubated with HeLa cells stably expressing HLA-A*68012 and transiently expressing ICAM1-EGFP. From the movie, it seems that some ICAM-1 positive vesicles in one of the HeLa cells are moving towards the T cell. However, it does not appear like the T cell has formed a stable immunological synapse but rather perhaps a motile kinapse. Furthermore, to conclude that the ICAM-1 positive vesicles are transported toward the T cell in a polarized manner, vesicles from multiple cells should be tracked and their overall directionality should be analyzed. It would also strengthen the paper if the authors could show additional evidence for polarization of the cancer cells in response to T-cell interaction.

      A similar point was raised by reviewer #2. We have revised this section accordingly. In the new Fig. 4 and Movies S8-9, we replaced the live-cell Airyscan confocal data with highspeed spinning-disk confocal imaging data, enabling a more accurate analysis of cargo polarized redistribution and at a higher time resolution.

      Using this approach, we captured the movement of ICAM1-positive tubulo-vesicular carriers in cancer cells at the moment of contact with CD8 T cells. Capturing such events is technically challenging, as T cell–cancer cell contacts form randomly and transiently. Successful imaging requires that the cancer cell be well spread and express ICAM1–GFP at an optimal level (as it is transiently expressed as a GFP-tagged construct), while acquisition must occur precisely at the moment when the T cell initiates contact. Despite these technical constraints, we successfully imaged early stages of immune synapse formation, enabling visualization of ICAM1 vesicular transport.

      The data reveal a flux of ICAM1-positive carriers emerging from the perinuclear region (corresponding to the Golgi area) and moving toward the contact site with the CD8 T cell, with fusion events of carriers occurring at the developing immune synapse.

      AI-based segmentation and tracking analyses showed that ICAM1-positive carrier trajectories were predominantly oriented toward the forming immune synapse, whereas carriers moving toward other cellular regions were markedly less frequent. These results provide direct evidence for polarized ICAM1 transport via vesicular trafficking toward the immune synapse.

      Finally, in Figures 4D-G, the authors show that the contact area between CD8+ T cells and LB33-MEL cells is increased in response to siRNA-mediated knockdown of EndoA3 and VPS26A. While this could be caused by reduced polarized delivery of ICAM-1 and ALCAM to the interface between the cells, it could also be caused by other factors such as increased cell surface expression of these proteins due to diminished endocytosis, and/or morphological changes in the cancer cells resulting from disrupted membrane traffic. More experimental evidence is needed to support the working model in Figure 4H.

      Regarding the cell surface expression of both ICAM1 and ALCAM, as already explained above, only minor differences were observed (Fig. S4E-F). Regarding morphological changes of cancer cells upon EndoA3 depletion (Fig. S4B-D), we compared the area, aspect ratio and roundness of LB33-MEL EndoA3+ cells treated with negative control or EndoA3 siRNAs. While we observed a slight cell area reduction upon EndoA3 depletion, no significant changes were observed regarding the aspect ratio and the roundness. Cancer cell morphology is thus not drastically modified by EndoA3 depletion. All these new data are now discussed in the manuscript.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewing Editor Comments:

      The reviewers discussed the paper and all agreed it was incomplete in supporting the conclusions. Additional data needed to support the conclusions were:

      (1) Better characterisation of Endo3A-expressing and knock-down cells such as morphology, ICAM-1, and ALCAM surface levels to name two parameters.

      As discussed above, we have now added new data addressing these points:

      - Morphology: Fig. S4B-D

      - ICAM1 and ALCAM surface levels: Fig. S4E-F These new data are discussed in the main text.

      (2) Better characterisation of the ICAM-1 polarisation process. Does this require interaction with LFA-1 can ICAM-1 be delivered to the synapse without this?

      As discussed above, we have now added new data better addressing the characterization of ICAM1 polarized trafficking to the immune synapse, that can be found in the new Fig. 4 (high-speed spinning-disk confocal imaging of ICAM1 trafficking upon conjugate formation between CD8 T cell and cancer cell). The text has been modified accordingly. The dependency on LFA-1 has not been addressed directly, but we may suppose it is indeed important as (i) it has already been addressed in other cellular systems by previous studies (Jo et al. 2010), and (ii) we observed a denser flux of ICAM1-positive carriers in the cancer cell toward regions involved in immune synapses with CD8 T cells, than other regions. As we didn’t address this question more directly in our study, we briefly mentioned this point in the Discussion section.

      (3) Better characterisation of T cell response- activation markers, cytotoxicity assays.

      As discussed above, we have now added new data addressing these points:

      - Cell surface activation markers: Fig. S4G-I

      - Proliferation: Fig. S4J

      - Degranulation: Fig. S4K

      - Cytotoxic activity: Fig. 3F

      These new data are discussed in the main text.

      (4) Citing relevant literature.

      The relevant literature (in particular the paper by Jo et al. 2010) is now cited and discussed.

      (5) Number of donors evaluated - is it true there was only one blood donor? For human studies better to have key results on >4 donors.

      Our immunological working model indeed originates from a single patient (Baurain et al., 2000), from whom both a cancer cell line (LB33-MEL) and autologous CD8 T cells were derived. These CD8 T cells specifically recognize an HLA molecule presenting a defined antigenic peptide (MUM-3) on the surface of the cancer cells. This provides us with a unique and fully natural experimental system that allows us to faithfully reconstitute cytotoxic T lymphocyte (CTL)-mediated killing of cancer cells in vitro.

      Using CD8 T cells from other donors would not be meaningful in this context, as they would not recognize the LB33-MEL cells. Conversely, testing the same CD8 T cells on other cancer cell lines requires engineering these lines to express the appropriate HLA molecule and to be exogenously pulsed with the correct antigenic peptide – which is precisely what we did with the HeLa cell line.

      Therefore, increasing the number of donors would require obtaining both cancer cell lines and CD8 T cells from each donor, ideally with evidence that the donor’s T cells recognize their own tumor cells. This is technically challenging and not trivial, although it would indeed be highly valuable to diversify immunological models in future studies.

      Importantly, the high specificity of our autologous co-culture system, where cancer cells interact with their naturally matched CD8 T cells, offers clear advantages over commonly used in vitro models such as Jurkat (T) and Raji (B) cell lines, which rely on artificial stimulation with a superantigen to enforce immunological synapse formation and T cell activation.

      (6) How does the binding of antibodies to ICAM-1 and ALCAM impact their trafficking?

      As IgG antibodies are bivalent and can bind two target antigens, they may induce clustering, which could in turn affect endocytosis. To address this concern, we performed an uptake assay based on surface protein biotinylation using a cleavable biotin reagent (with a reducible linker). Briefly, after allowing endocytosis for different time intervals, cell surface–exposed biotins were removed by treatment with the cellimpermeable reducing agent MESNA, while internalized (endocytosed) biotinylated proteins remained protected. These internalized proteins were then recovered by affinity purification on streptavidin resin and analyzed by Western blot to detect the protein of interest.

      Importantly, this uptake assay can be performed in the absence or presence of an anticargo antibody, allowing assessment of its potential influence on endocytosis. Author response image 1 shows the results for ALCAM uptake in HeLa cells, with and without anti-ALCAM antibody:

      Author response image 1.

      Antibody binding to an extracellular epitope of ALCAM increases its endocytosis. HeLa cellsurface proteins were biotinylated on ice using EZ-Link Sulfo-NHS-SS-Biotin (Pierce) and then incubated at 37 °C for the indicated times to allow endocytosis. Internalization was assessed in the absence or presence of an anti-ALCAM antibody (Ab) added to the extracellular medium. Endocytosis was stopped by returning the cells to ice, and surface-exposed biotin was removed by treatment with the cell-impermeable reducing agent MESNA. Internalized, MESNA-resistant biotinylated proteins were affinity-purified on streptavidin resin and analyzed by Western blot to detect ALCAM. The “unstripped” condition shows the total amount of ALCAM at the cell surface at the beginning of the experiment (signal at ~95 kDa). Quantification of the time course (normalized to the no-antibody condition) shows increased ALCAM endocytosis in the presence of antibody at 15 and 30 min. Blot is representative of two independent experiments; quantifications include data from both experiments.

      We observed that the anti-ALCAM antibody slightly enhanced ALCAM uptake. A similar experiment was attempted for ICAM1, but we were unable to detect the protein by Western blot using the available commercial antibody.

      Although this outcome was expected, it highlights a potential caveat in using antibodies to monitor endocytosis. Alternative tools such as nanobodies, while monovalent and theoretically less perturbing, are not yet available for many cargo proteins and may still influence cargo conformation or dynamics. Therefore, antibodies remain the current gold standard in endocytosis studies. Nevertheless, data obtained with antibodies should always be validated by complementary approaches that do not rely on antibody binding, as we have done in this study (e.g. live-cell imaging of fluorescently tagged proteins).

      The work is of interest and we look forward to your response/revision.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Thank you for submitting your manuscript which I had the pleasure to review. While I enjoyed your work, I feel that it would strongly benefit by addressing the following points:

      (1) In-depth characterization of T cell responses upon Endo3A depletion: The characterization should be expanded to include surface marker upregulation, T cell proliferation, and, most importantly, tumor cell cytotoxicity. I was wondering if the incomplete characterization of T-cell responses is due to limited supplies of antigenspecific T-cells? My understanding is that these cells have been derived from a single patient. This also raises concerns in terms of reproducibility as all data are practically from a single biological replicate. My suggestion would be to use an additional system of specific cell-cell contacts to complement the current findings. For instance, HeLa cells could be transfected to express CD19 or EpCAM, for both of which bispecific T cell engagers (Invivogen) exist that would allow specific contact formation, thereby allowing the study of the effect of Endo3A depletion across T cells from different donors and through a more complete set of assays.

      We refer the reviewer to our responses above, where these points have been addressed in detail. We sincerely thank the reviewer for the excellent suggestion of transfecting HeLa cells with CD19 or EpCAM and using bispecific T-cell engagers. However, after careful consideration, we concluded that this approach falls outside the scope of the present study, which was specifically designed to investigate the most natural system, cancer cells and their autologous CD8 T cells. We nevertheless appreciate this insightful suggestion and will certainly consider it for future studies.

      (2) Alterations in membrane tension as an alternative explanation: Endo- and exocytosis have been found to influence the biophysical properties of cells, such as membrane tension (e.g., Djakbaravo et al., 2021, PMID: 33788963), which in turn influences their susceptibility to cytotoxic T cells with lower tension corresponding to reduced cytotoxicity (e.g., Basu & Whitlock, 2016, PMID: 26924577). Thus, interference with endocytic pathways could arguably lead to changes in membrane tension that could contribute to the observed effects. These possible effects should be discussed and addressed experimentally to a degree. While measuring membrane tension directly requires specialized expertise (e.g., tether pulling experiments) and is not within the scope of this study, membrane tension affects cell spreading and actin organization. Thus, I would suggest conducting a thorough comparative phenotypical and morphological characterization of the Endo3A+ and Endo3A- cancer cells to estimate the possible effect of changes in membrane tension (if any) on the results.

      We refer the reviewer to our responses above, where these points have been addressed in detail. New data have been added and the text of our manuscript has been modified accordingly.

      (3) Citation and consideration of earlier work: Jo & Kwon et al., 2010 (PMID: 20681010) have previously shown that ICAM1 undergoes clathrin-independent recycling and repolarization to the immunological synapse in APCs. Furthermore, they provided evidence that actin-based transport, but not lateral diffusion, together with recycling is crucial for the repolarization of ICAM1 to the immunological synapse. This important earlier work has to be cited. Actin-based transport on the cell surface has not been considered in the current manuscript. In light of these earlier findings, it is unclear in Figure 4A if ICAM1 is delivered to the T cell from within- or from the surface of the cancer cell. I would suggest changing the imaging modalities in this experiment to be able to differentiate cell surface from internal ICAM1, e.g., by detaching the cancer cells from the surface as has been done in Fig. 4B, E, and F.

      We refer the reviewer to our responses above, where these points have been addressed in detail. New data have been added and the text of our manuscript has been modified accordingly.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Major comments:

      (1) The authors should be more careful with their claims about the importance of their results for cell polarity as their evidence for this is scarce (i.e. The live-cell imaging in Figure 4A is not quantified and the ICAM1 polarization effect shown in figure 4B-C is, albeit significant, small and not very convincing).

      We refer the reviewer to our responses above, where these points have been addressed in detail. New data have been added and the text of our manuscript has been modified accordingly.

      (2) The absence (or very low expression) of EndoA3 on the LB33-MEL cell suggests that EndoA3-mediated recycling of immune synaptic components is not required for T-cell activation. The fact that EndoA3 exogenous expression in LB33-MEL cells leads to increased cytokine production in T cells is, however, interesting.

      We fully agree with the reviewer’s observation. Although EndoA3 is not expressed in some cellular contexts, its cargoes may still be present. It is therefore reasonable to assume that alternative endocytic mechanisms can compensate for its absence. It is now widely accepted that many cargoes can be internalized through multiple endocytic routes, and that the relative contribution of each pathway depends strongly on the cellular and physiological context.

      For example, we have shown that ALCAM and L1CAM, although primarily internalized via clathrin-independent pathways, present a minor fraction (< 25%) undergoing clathrinmediated endocytosis (Renard et al., 2020; Lemaigre et al., 2023). Moreover, we observed that inhibition of macropinocytosis enhances EndoA3-mediated endocytosis of ALCAM, indicating a crosstalk between specific EndoA3-mediated clathrin-independent endocytosis (CIE) and non-specific macropinocytosis (Tyckaert et al., 2022).

      Thus, even in the absence of EndoA3, its cargoes are likely internalized through alternative endocytic routes. Nonetheless, our data clearly demonstrate that EndoA3 expression markedly enhances the endocytosis and intracellular trafficking of its cargoes, ultimately leading to modified CD8 T cell responses.

      (3) For the statistics in bar graphs (graphs 1C, D, E &F; 3E, 3F, S1C-I, and S3C), one cannot have all values for controls simply normalized to 1. This procedure hides the variance for the controls between each replicate and makes any statistics meaningless.

      We thank the reviewer for this important remark. Regarding Figures 1C–F, S1C–I, and S3C, which correspond to quantifications from Western blots, it is standard practice to normalize the quantification to a control condition set to 1 (or 100%). Absolute signal intensities cannot be directly compared across different blots due to the variability inherent to this semi-quantitative technique. For this reason, we chose to keep the data presented in normalized form. However, we agree that this type of data require the careful choice of a convenient statistical analysis approach. Here, we choose one-sample T tests, allowing to test the hypothesis that the various siRNA conditions are different from 100% (the normalized value of the siCtrl condition). We adapted the statistical analysis accordingly in the different figures mentioned.

      Regarding old Figures 3E–F (now Fig. 3E and 3G), which correspond to IFNγ secretion assays, we agree that representing IFNγ secretion as a fold change relative to a control condition may obscure inter-experimental variability. However, this format was intentionally chosen to facilitate data interpretation, as IFNγ secretion was quantified by ELISA and also displayed inter-experimental variability. For completeness, we now provide below the corresponding graphs showing absolute IFNγ concentrations, which retain the information on inter-experimental variability (Author response image 2). As you can see, the overall conclusions remain unchanged.

      Author response image 2.

      IFNg secretion data corresponding to Fig. 3E and 3G, expressed in absolute values (pg/mL)

      Minor comments:

      (1) What happens to surface and total levels of ICAM1 and ALCAM in the retromer or EndoA3 knockdown/overexpression conditions? This information would put the effects described into context.

      We refer the reviewer to our responses above, where these points have been addressed in detail. New data have been added and the text of our manuscript has been modified accordingly.

      (2) The authors should clearly indicate that BFA means bafilomycin A in the figure legend or methods.

      BFA corresponds to Brefeldin A. We have now clarified this information in legends and methods.

      (3) In the sentence: "These data demonstrate that retromer-mediated retrograde transport is critical for trafficking ALCAM and ICAM1 to the Golgi and that this process requires the full secretory capacity of the TGN." What do the authors mean by full secretory capacity?

      We have modified the sentence: “Together, these data demonstrate that retromermediated retrograde transport is critical for trafficking ALCAM and ICAM1 to the Golgi and that this process requires efficient secretion from the TGN (as evidenced by the involvement of Rab6).”

      (4) The method used for retrograde transport seems to be a variation of the original protocol (reference 43). The manuscript would benefit from a thorough explanation of this assay, rather than citing the original protocol.

      We did not modify the original SNAP-tag–based protocol used to monitor retrograde transport. A comprehensive methodological paper has been published (ref. 44), and we have followed it strictly. Additionally, we briefly summarized the rationale of the approach in Figure 1A and in the first paragraph of the Results section.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In their manuscript, Richter and colleagues comprehensively investigate the cell wall recycling pathway in the model alphaproteobacterium Caulobacter crescentus using biochemical, imaging, and genetic approaches. They clearly demonstrate that this organism encodes a functional peptidoglycan recycling pathway and demonstrate the activities of many enzymes and transporters within this pathway. They leverage imaging and growth assays to demonstrate that mutants in peptidoglycan recycling have varying degrees of beta-lactam sensitivity as well as morphological and cell division defects. They propose that, rather than impacting the levels or activity of the major beta-lactamase, BlaA, defects in PG recycling lead to beta-lactam sensitivity by limiting the availability of new cell wall precursors. The findings will be of interest to those in the field of bacterial cell wall biochemistry, antibiotics and antibiotic resistance, and bacterial morphogenesis.

      Strengths:

      Overall, the manuscript is laid out logically, and the data are comprehensive, quantitative, and rigorous. The mutants and their phenotypes will be a valuable resource for Caulobacter researchers.

      Thank you for this positive evaluation. Previous work has mostly focused on the role of PG recycling in the regulation of ampC expression. However, our study and recent work in A. tumefaciens (Gilmore & Cava, 2022) and C. crescentus (Modi et al, 2025) demonstrates that β-lactam resistance is heavily influenced by PG recycling and the metabolic state of the cell, even in the presence of high levels of β-lactamase activity. It is likely that these effects are not limited to the two alpha­proteo­bacterial species investigated to date but may be more widely applicable. Therefore, we believe that our results are relevant beyond the Caulobacter field and may help to stimulate similar analyses in other, medi­cally more relevant species.

      Weaknesses:

      The only major missing piece is the complementation of mutants to demonstrate that loss of the targeted gene is responsible for the observed phenotypes.

      In our initial manuscript, we showed that the replacement of the native AmiR and NagZ genes with mutant alleles encoding catalytically inactive variants of the two proteins gave rise to the same pheno­types as gene deletions. This finding indicates that the defects observed were due to the loss of AmiR or NagZ activity, respectively. To rule out artifacts from polar effects, we have now also conducted the requested complementation analysis for the ΔampG, ΔamiR and ΔnagZ mutants. The results obtained show that deletion mutants carrying an ectopically expressed wild-type gene copy behave essentially like the wild-type strain, thereby verify­ing the validity of our conclusions (new Figure 4-figure supple­ment 1).

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Pia Richter et al. investigated the peptidoglycan (PG) recycling metabolism in the alpha-proteobacterium Caulobacter crescentus. The authors first identified a functional recycling pathway in this organism, which is similar to the Pseudomonas route, and they characterized two key enzymes (NagZ, AmiR) of this pathway, showing that AmiR differs in specificity from the AmpD counterpart of E. coli. Further, they studied the effects of deletions within the PG recycling pathway (ampG, amiR, nagZ, sdpA, blaA, nagA1, nagA2, amgK, nagK mutants), showing filamentation and cell widening, thereby revealing a link between PG recycling and cell division. Finally, they provide a link between PG recycling and beta-lactam sensitivity in C. crescents that is not caused by activation of a beta-lactamase, but rather is a result of reduced supply of PG building blocks increasing the sensitivity of penicillin-binding proteins.

      Strengths:

      This work adds to the understanding of the role of PG recycling in alpha-proteobacteria, which significantly differ in their mode of cell wall growth from the better studied gamma-proteobacteria.

      Thank you for pointing out the relevance of our work. As mentioned above, we believe that our work goes beyond understanding the PG recycling pathway in alphaproteobacteria. Importantly, together with previous work, our results demonstrate a so-far largely neglected critical role of PG recycling in β-lactam resistance that goes beyond the mere regula­tion of β-lactamase gene expression. It will be interesting to determine the conservation of this phenomenon among other bacteria and to see whether blocking PG recycling could represent a potential strategy to combat β-lactam resistant pathogens.

      Weaknesses:

      The findings are not entirely novel as recent studies by Modi et al. 2025 mBio (studying C. crescentus) and Gilmore & Cava 2022 Nat. Commun. (studying Agrobacterium tumefaciens) came to similar conclusions.

      Gilmore & Cava have made the seminal finding that blocking anhydro-muropeptide import affects cell wall integrity in a manner that is partly independent of its effect on ampC expression. We now extend this finding by investigating various critical steps in the PG recycling pathway of C. cres­centus, a species lacking an AmpC homolog. Interestingly, by characterizing a variety of different mutants, we show that the morphol­ogical and ampicillin resistance defects they exhibit are not strictly con­nected and vary substantially between strains, suggesting that different steps in PG recycling differ in their importance for cellular fitness and cell wall integrity. This finding suggests that the phenotypes observed are not simply determined by the efficiency of PG recycling but likely result from a combination of factors. Based on the results obtained, we propose a model that highlights the different factors that may be at play and suggests a mechanism explaining their effects on β-lactam resistance and cell division. Our findings partly overlap with the recent study by Modi et al., but there are various points in which we disagree with their findings and conclusions. The need to rigorously validate our differing results led to a signi­ficant delay in the submission of our manuscript.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Major Comment

      Genetic complementation is lacking for deletion mutants throughout. Could you please provide complemented strains for mutants in key figures where deletion phenotypes are central to the conclusions (e.g., Figure 4 and related supplements).

      As explained above, we have not performed the requested comple­mentation experiments and included the data as Figure 4-figure supplement 1.

      Other minor comments:

      (1) Figure 1

      (a) This is a busy schematic; please consider visually separating PG biosynthesis vs. recycling (e.g., a faint divider line or shaded boxes).

      We have now simplified the schematic and visually separated the PG recycling and de novo biosyn­thesis pathways.

      (b) Please label "Fructose-6-phosphate" and "Glucosamine-6-phosphate (GlcN-6-P)" on the figure, since they are referenced in the caption (line 1410).

      The symbols for fructose, glucosamine and phosphate are given in the legend on the right. For consistency, we would therefore prefer not to additionally label these compounds in the figure.

      (c) Define all abbreviations in the caption: CM, GTase, TPase; and clarify the legend conventions (e.g., bold vs. regular font; red vs. black text).

      The structure of PG and the different lytic enzymes have now been removed from Figure 1. All remaining abbreviations have now been defined in the legend.

      (2) Figure 2 - Figure Supplement 2

      (a) Panel B: Please include the full chromatogram (it seems to be cropped at 10 min?). For AmiR in particular, it is important to show there are no nearby peaks at earlier retention times (eg GlcNAc).

      The region before 10 min is cropped in many published muropeptide profiles because the peaks contained in it are known to correspond to salts, i.e., borate from the reduction step and phos­phate, which are poorly retained on the C18 column (Figure 2–figure supplement 2). As the reviewer stated, free GlcNAc would elute in this region and would not be recognized if it were produced by AmiR. However, AmiR cleaves free anhydro-muropeptides between anhMurNAc and the peptide, and the experiment in Figure 2–figure supplement 2 shows that it does not cleave the bond between MurNAc and peptides in intact peptidoglycan.

      (b) Caption line 1439: with AmiR OR the catalytically...

      Done.

      (3) Figure 3

      Panel A: Label the products as NagZ-treated.

      In this analysis, we quantify specific intermediates from the total cellular pool of PG recycling inter­mediates. Since the products were not specifically treated with NagZ, we would prefer to keep the figures as it is.

      (4) Figure 4 (and Fig. 4-Figure Supplement 1, 2)

      (a) Please add complemented strains for ΔampG, ΔamiR, and ΔnagZ under the same conditions.

      As described in more detail above, we have now performed the requested complementation analysis.

      (b) Figure 4 - Figure S1 - Please include images of all strains quantified in B (e.g. control WT).

      Done.

      (c) Figure 4 - Figure S2: A. Please include images of all strains quantified in B. Please include spotting dilutions on minimal medium to assess the importance of PG recycling under nutrient limitation, especially given apparent lysis in ΔamiR and ΔampG.

      The length distributions of cells grown in PYE medium are taken from Figure 3 and only shown for comparison (as mentioned in the figure legend). To avoid the duplication of images, we would prefer to keep panel A as it is.

      We have now performed the requested serial-dilution spot assay on minimal (M2G) medium. The results show that ampicillin resistance de­creases even more dramatically for all strains in this condi­tion. The new data are presented in Figure 4-figure supplement 3C.

      (d) Figure 4 - Figures S3: A and B. Please include WT control.

      We have now added images of the wild-type strain to panel B of this figure. The serial dilution spot assays shown in panel A were performed on the same plates as those depicted in Figure 4 (as men­tioned in the figure legend). To avoid the duplication of images, we would prefer to keep this panel as it is.

      (5) Figure 5

      A, C - please include images of WT control.

      We have now added images of the wild-type strain to panel A of this figure. The serial dilution spot assays shown in panel C were performed on the same plates as those depicted in Figure 4 (as men­tioned in the figure legend). To avoid the duplication of images, we would prefer to keep this panel as it is.

      (6) Figure 6:

      (a) A, C - please include images of WT control.

      We have now added images of the wild-type strain to panel A of this figure. The serial dilution spot assays shown in panel C were performed on the same plates as those depicted in Figure 4 (as men­tioned in the figure legend). To avoid the duplication of images, we would prefer to keep this panel as it is.

      (b) It would be informative to test ΔamgK and ΔanmK on minimal medium (spotting and/or growth curves) to position these steps within the nutrient-dependent fitness landscape.

      We have now analyzed the ampicillin sensitivity of the ΔamgK, ΔnagK and ΔamgK ΔnagK strains on minimal medium (see Author response image 1). Consistent with the results obtained for other mutants in the PG recycling pathway, growth on minimal (M2G) medium plates leads to increased ampicillin sensi­tivity of the ΔamgK mutant. By contrast, ΔnagK and, to a lesser extent, ΔamgK ΔnagK cells show an in­creased tolerance to ampicillin under these conditions compared to growth on PYE plates.

      This phenomenon may be explained by the strong stimulatory effect of GlcNAc-6-P on NagB acti­vity. In the absence of NagK, GlcNAc-6-P levels drop, leading to reduced activation of NagB1/2. This effect, combined with abundant glucose to support central carbon metabolism may promote the GlcN-6-P biosynthesis through GlmS, thereby increasing the flux of meta­bol­ites into the de novo PG biosynthesis pathway and thus boosting ampicillin tolerance. However, more re­search is required to fully under­stand the molecular basis of this effect. Given that the results are likely to reflect complex interactions bet­ween dysregulated enzyme activity and altered metabolite pools caused by increased glucose avail­ability, they provide only limited insight into the role of PG recycling in ampicillin resistance. We therefore propose excluding this experiment from the present manuscript to avoid confusion.

      Author response image 1.

      Serial-dilution spot assay investigating the ampicillin resistance of the indicated mutant strains on minimal (M2G) medium plates.

      (c) Could Figures 6 and 7 be combined for better comparison and since there is no WT control? If so, could you also include the MurNAc cytoplasmic level quantification for the double mutant (Figure 7)?

      We would prefer to keep the two figures separated to avoid creating an overly large figure that contains a total of nine panels. However, we have now included an additional panel in Figure 7 show­ing the levels of MurNAc in the double mutant.

      (7) Figure 7. A, C

      Please include images of WT control.

      We have now added images of the wild-type strain (now panel B). The serial dilution spot assays (now panel D) were performed on the same plates as those depicted in Figure 4 (as men­tioned in the figure legend). To avoid the duplication of images, we would prefer to keep this panel as it is.

      (8) Figure 8-S1D, F

      Please include images of WT control.

      Panel F of this figure already contains a wild-type control.

      (9) Figure 10 A, C

      Please include images of WT control and ∆amiR (A).

      Done.

      (10) Figure 11

      Consider adding or highlighting in this figure (in a simplified manner) the major PG recycling differences in Caulobacter? The current model doesn't really show any difference that is unknown.

      This figure presents a model of the mechanism underlying the increased β-lactam sensitivity of PG recycling-deficient cells. Since the PG recycling pathway of C. crescentus is already presented in detail in Figure 1, we would like to keep this figure simple and thus leave it as it is.

      (11) Comments by lines:

      (a) Line 192: Clarify that NagZ is also part of the rate-limiting step since there is no difference between AmiR or NagZ order of hydrolysis?

      We have now omitted the statement that AmiR catalyzes the rate-limiting step in the PG recycling process, because our data do not allow definitive conclusions on this point.

      (b) Line 201: Define "considerable fraction" since this is known, please and cite original reference(s).

      Done.

      (c) Line 203: Please also cite the primary papers where they have found that disruption of the PG recycling pathway in E. coli and P. aeruginosa doesn't result in morphological defects.

      Since there are a number of papers that report PG recycling-deficient mutants of E. coli and P. aeru­ginosa, we would like to keep citing reviews to support this statement. However, we have now addi­tionally included a review by Park & Uehara (2008), which provides a detailed overview of PG recycling in bacteria.

      (d) Line 220-223: Though there are no obvious morphological defects, several mutants (e.g., ΔamiR, ΔampG) appear to be lysing or stressed under minimal conditions. Could you include spotting assays and/or growth curves on minimal medium (Figure 4, Figure S2) to quantify fitness under nutrient limitation?

      Have performed the requested serial dilution spot assays on minimal (M2G) medium plates and now present the data obtained in Figure 4-figure supplement 3C.

      (e) Line 224: PG recycling has been found to contribute to the regulation of B-lactam resistance in several organisms, not just those two. Perhaps add "including C. freundii and P. aeruginosa"

      Done.

      (12) Typographical errors:

      (a) Line 284: "caron" should be carbon.

      Done.

      (b) Line 323: "Figure C" needs a figure number.

      Done.

      (c) Line 33: "regulaton" should be regulation.

      Done.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) The study is well conducted and describes a number of experiments that significantly deepen previous findings. The conclusions of this paper are mostly well supported by data, but some experiments and data analysis may need to be clarified and extended.

      Thank you for this positive evaluation.

      (2) The data presented in Figures 2B and 2C show activities of AmiR and NagZ using LTase-cleaved cell wall preparations. Unfortunately, the preparations tested with the two enzymes should be identical, but apparently are not. Why aren't identical preparations used?

      We are sorry for the confusion. As stated in the Methods section (page 28, lines 757 and 773), the AmiR activity assays used LT products from PG sacculi isolated from E. coli D456, whereas the NagZ activity assays used LT-products from PG sacculi isolated from E. coli CS703-1. Both strains have a higher penta­peptide content than wild-type E. coli D456 lacks PBPs 4, 5 and 6 and has a moderate level of pentapeptides. CS703-1 lacks PBPs 1a, 4, 5, 6, 7 as well as AmpC and AmpH, and is known to have a higher pentapeptide content than D456. These differences are the reason for the distinct muro­peptide profiles in panel B and C of Figure 2.

      (3) I am missing a control experiment where muropeptides treated with NagZ were further digested with AmiR? This would show whether AmiR is able or not to cleave MurNAc-peptides. This is not evident from the provided experiments.

      We have now tested the activity of AmiR towards anhMurNAc-tetrapeptide in vitro. The results show that AmiR efficiently cleaves this GlcNAc-free anhydro-muropeptide species, verifying that it can also act on turnover products that have been previously processed by NagZ. The new data are shown in Figure 2–figure supplement 5.

      (4) The claim that PG recycling is critical, particularly upon transition to the stationary phase and under nutrient limitation, is not justified. It conflicts with the obvious morphological effects also in the exponential phase and with the absence of morphological defects in minimal medium: pronounced defects in rich PYE medium (Figure 4A/B) disappear in minimal M2G medium (Figure 4_figure supplement 2). It seems that catabolite repression effects apply here. Is the morphological effect in rich PYE medium reversed by adding glucose?

      We agree that PG recycling is not considerably more important in stationary phase and have removed this statement. Interestingly, while PG recycling-deficient mutants show no obvious mor­phol­ogical defects in minimal (M2G) medium, their ampicillin sensitivity even increases under this condi­tion (new Figure 4-figure supplement 3C), confirming that morphological and resistance defects are not strictly coupled. Preliminary data indicate that the morphological defects of the mutant cells are also abolished upon growth in PYE+glucose medium. High glucose availability may promote increased de novo synthesis of PG precursors, thereby partially restoring the PG precursor pool. We propose that the morphological and resistance phenotypes develop at different degrees of PG precursor depletion. However, future research is required to clarify the precise molecular basis of this phenomenon.

      (5) Figure 4: Why is the contribution of AmpG to ampicillin resistance much lower than for amiR or nagZ, despite ampG mutants showing the largest morphological defects? Does the accumulation of UDP-MurNAc or UDP-MurNAc-peptide correlate with ampicillin resistance, whereas the morphological effects correlate with the lack of precursors?

      The exact reason why the ΔampG mutant shows such a strong discrepancy in the severity of its morphol­ogical and resistance defects compared to the ΔamiR and ΔnagZ mutants remains unclear, because all of these deletions completely block the recycling of anhydro-muropeptides. The major difference in the ΔampG mutant is its inability to import anhydro-muropeptides, causing their accu­mu­lation in the periplasm. We propose that periplasmic anhydro-muropeptides, in particular the penta­peptide-containing species, can interact with the substrate-binding sites of PG metabolic enzymes, thereby interfering with proper PG biosyn­thesis. Conversely, by interacting with transpep­tidases, they may reduce their accessibility to ampicillin and thus preserve their acti­vity under β-lactam stress, particularly under conditions in which low PG precursor availability reduces binding site occupancy and thus facilitates antibiotic association.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      eLife Assessment

      This important study introduces an advance in multi-animal tracking by reframing identity assignment as a self-supervised contrastive representation learning problem. It eliminates the need for segments of video where all animals are simultaneously visible and individually identifiable, and significantly improves tracking speed, accuracy, and robustness with respect to occlusion. This innovation has implications beyond animal tracking, potentially connecting with advances in behavioral analysis and computer vision. The strength of support for these advances is compelling overall, although there were some remaining minor methodological concerns.

      To tackle “minor methodological concerns” mentioned in the Editorial assessment and Reviewer 3, the new version of the manuscript includes the following changes:

      a) The new ms does not anymore use the word “accuracy” but “IDF1 scores”. See, for example, Lines 46, 161, 176, and 522 for our new wording as “IDF1 scores”.

      b) Instead of comparing softwares using mean accuracy over the benchmark, Reviewer 3 proposes to use medians or even boxplots. We now provide boxplot results with mean, median, percentiles and outliers (Figure 1- figure Supplement 2).

      Additionally, we also include in the text the other recommendations from Reviewer 3:

      a) We now more explicitly describe the problems of the original idtracker.ai v4 in the benchmark (lines 66-68). Around half of the videos had a high accuracy in the original dtracker.ai (v4) but the other half of the videos had lower accuracies (Figure 1a, blue). The new idtracker.ai has high accuracy values for all the videos (Figure 1a, magenta).

      Also, the videos with high accuracy in the old idtracker.ai had very long tracking times (Figure 1b, blue) and the new version does not (Figure 1b, magenta). So the benchmark allows us to distinguish the new idtracker.ai as having a better accuracy for all videos and lower tracking times, making it a much more practical system than previous ones. 

      b) We further clarified the occlusion experiment (lines 188-190 and 277-290).

      c) We explain why we measure accuracies with and without animal crossings (lines 49-62).

      d) We added a Discussion section (lines 223-244).

      We believe the new version has clarified the minor methodological concerns.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      The authors have reorganized and rewritten a substantial portion of their manuscript, which has improved the overall clarity and structure to some extent. In particular, omitting the different protocols enhanced readability. However, all technical details are now in appendix which is now referred to more frequently in the manuscript, which was already the case in the initial submission. These frequent references to the appendix - and even to appendices from previous versions - make it difficult to read and fully understand the method and the evaluations in detail. A more self-contained description of the method within the main text would be highly appreciated.

      In the new ms, we have reduced the references to the appendix by having a more detailed explanation in one place, lines 49-62.

      Furthermore, the authors state that they changed their evaluation metric from accuracy to IDF1. However, throughout the manuscript they continue to refer to "accuracy" when evaluating and comparing results. It is unclear which accuracy metric was used or whether the authors are confusing the two metrics. This point needs clarification, as IDF1 is not an "accuracy" measure but rather an F1-score over identity assignments.

      We thank the reviewer for noticing this. Following this recommendation, we changed how we refer to the accuracy measure with “IDF1 score” in the entire ms. See, for example, lines 46, 161, 176, and 522.

      The authors compare the speedups of the new version with those of the previous ones by taking the average. However, it appears that there are striking outliers in the tracking performance data (see Supplementary Table 1-4). Therefore, using the average may not be the most appropriate way to compare. The authors should consider using the median or providing more detailed statistics (e.g., boxplots) to better illustrate the distributions.

      We thank the reviewer for asking for more detailed statistics. We added the requested box plot in Figure 1- figure Supplement 2 to provide more complete statistics in the comparison.

      The authors did not provide any conclusion or discussion section. Including a concise conclusion that summarizes the main findings and their implications would help to convey the message of the manuscript.

      We added a Discussion section in lines 223-244.

      The authors report an improvement in the mean accuracy across all benchmarks from 99.49% to 99.82% (with crossings). While this represents a slight improvement, the datasets used for benchmarking seem relatively simple and already largely "solved". Therefore, the impact of this work on the field may be limited. It would be more informative to evaluate the method on more challenging datasets that include frequent occlusions, crossings, or animals with similar appearances.

      Around half of the videos also had a very high accuracy in the original dtracker.ai (v4) but the other half of the videos had lower accuracies (Figure 1a, blue). For example, we found IDF1 scores of 94.47% for a video of 100 zebrafish with thousands of crossings (z_100_1), 93.77% for a video of 4 mice (m_4_2) and 69.66% for a video of 100 flies (d_100_3). The new idtracker.ai has high accuracy values for all the videos (Figure 1a, magenta).

      Importantly, the tracking times for the majority of videos was very high in the original idtracker.ai (Figure 1b, blue), making the use of the tracking system limited in practice. The new system manages both a high accuracy in all videos (Figure 1a, magenta) and much lower tracking times (Figure 1b, magenta), making it a much more practical system..

      We have added a sentence of the limitations of the original idtracker.ai as obtained from the benchmark, lines 66-68.

      The accuracy reported in the main text is "without crossings" - this seems like incomplete evaluation, especially that tracking objects that do not cross seems a straightforward task. Information is missing why crossings are a problem and are dealt with separately.

      We have now added an explanation on why we measure accuracy without crossings and why we separated it from the accuracy for all the trajectory in lines 49-62. The reason is that the identification algorithm being presented in this ms only identifies animal images outside the crossings. This algorithm makes robust animal identifications through the video despite the thousands of animal crossings typically existing in each of our videos used in the benchmark. It is a second algorithm (that hasn’t changed since the first idTracker in 2014) the one that assigns animal positions during crossings once the first algorithm has made animal identifications before and after the crossings.

      There are several videos with a much lower tracking accuracy, explaining what the challenges of these videos are and why the method fails in such cases would help to understand the method's usability and weak points.

      Some videos had low accuracy on previous versions (Figure 1a, blue), but the new idtracker.ai has high accuracy in all of them (Figure 1a, magenta).

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) As described before, the authors claim to use IDF1 as their metric in the whole manuscript (lines 414-436) but only refer to accuracy when presenting the results. It is not clear, whether accuracy was used as a metric instead of IDF1 or the authors are confusing these metrics.

      Following this recommendation, we replaced “accuracy” with “IDF1 score” , see lines 46, 161, 176, and 522.

      (2) In the introduction, a brief explanation why crossings need to be dealt with separately would help to understand the logic of the method design.

      We added such an explanation in lines 49-62.

      (3) Figure 3: We asked about how the tracking accuracy is being assessed with occlusions. The authors responded with that only the GT points inside the ROI are taken into account when computing the accuracy. Does this mean, that the occluded blobs are still part of the CNN training and the clustering? This questions the purpose of this experiment, since the accuracy performance would therefore only change, if the errors, that their approach is doing either way, are outside the ROI and, therefore, not part of the metric evaluation.

      The occluded blobs are not part of any training because they are erased from the video, they do not exist. We made this more clear in lines 188-190 and 277-290.

      (4) Figure 1: The fact that datasets are connected with a line is misleading - there is no connection between the data along the x-axis. A line plot is not an appropriate way to present these results.

      The new ms clarifies that the lines are for ease of visualization, see last line in the caption of Figure 1.

      (5) Lines 38-39: It is not clear how the CNN can be pretrained for the entire video if there are no global segments or only short ones. Here, the distinction between "no segments", "only short segments" and "pretraining on the entire video" is not explained.

      This pretraining protocol is not used in the version of the software we present, so details of this are not as relevant.

      (6) Figure 2a: The authors are showing "individual fragments" and individual fragments in a global fragment." However, it seems there are a few blue borders missing. In the text (l. 73-79), they note, that they are displaying them as "examples" but the absence of correct blue borders is confusing.

      In the new ms, we have replaced the label “Individual fragments in a global fragment” with “Individual fragments in an example global fragment” in the legend of Figure 2.

      (7) Lines 61-63, 148-151, and 162-164: Could the authors clarify why they used the average instead of median when comparing the speedups of the new version and the old ones?

      We thank the reviewer for asking for more detailed statistics. We added the requested box plot in Figure 1- figure Supplement 2 to provide more complete statistics in the comparison of accuracies and tracking times for old and new systems.

      (8) Lines 140-144: The post-processing steps are not clear. The authors should rather state clearly which processes of the old versions they are using. Then the authors could shortly explain them.

      We removed this paragraph and explained in more detail in lines 49-62 which parts of the software are new and which ones are not.

      (9) Lines 239-251: Here, the authors are clarifying on a section 1-2 pages before. This information should be directly in that section instead.

      Following this recommendation, we clarified the occlusion experiment in the main text (lines 188-191) to make it more self-contained. Still, the flow of the main text is better with some details in Methods.

      (10) Line 38: It is not clear how the CNN can be pretrained for the entire video if there are no global segments or only short ones. Here, the distinction between "no segments"

      "only short segments" and "pretraining on the entire video" is a bit misleading/underexplained.

      See number 5.

      (11) Figure 2a: The authors are showing "individual fragments" and individual fragments in a global fragment." However, it seems there are a few blue borders missing. In the text (l. 73-79), they note, that they are displaying them as "examples" but the absence of correct blue borders is confusing.

      See number 6.

      (12) Figure 2c and line 115-118: "Batches" itself is not meaningful without any information of the batch size. The authors should rather depict the batch size and then the number of epochs. The Figure 2 contains the info 400 positive and 400 negative pairs of images per batch. However, there is no information about the total number of images.

      Furthermore, these metrics are inappropriate here, since training is carried out from scratch (or already pre-trained) for every new video, each video has different number of animals, different number of images.

      Following this recommendation, we clarified the number of images in each batch (Figure 1c caption and lines 134-138), why we do not work with epochs (lines 700-702), and the idea that the clusters in Figure 2 represent an example and the number of batches needed for the clusters to form depends on the video details.

      Appendix 1-figure 1: why do the methods fail? It looks that for certain videos the method is fairly unreliable. What is the reason for the methods to crash and how to avoid this?

      Those failures are only for the old idtracker.ai and Trex, not for the method presented here. Our new contrastive algorithm does not fail in any of the videos in the benchmark.

      We thank the reviewer for the detailed suggestions. We believe we have incorporated all of them in the new version of the ms.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This paper by Karimian et al proposes an oscillator model tuned to implement binding by synchrony (BBS*) principles in a visual task. The authors set out to show how well these BBS principles explain human behavior in figure-ground segregation tasks. The model is inspired by electrophysiological findings in non-human primates, suggesting that gamma oscillations in early visual cortex implement feature-binding through a synchronization of feature-selective neurons. The psychophysics experiment involves the identification of a figure consisting of gabor annuli, presented on a background of gabor annuli. The participants' task is to identify the orientation of the figure. The task difficulty is varied based on the contrast and density of the gabor annuli that make up the figure. The same figures (without the background) are used as inputs to the oscillator model. The authors report that both the discrimination accuracy in the psychophysics experiment and the synchrony of the oscillators in the proposed model follow a similar "Arnold Tongue" relationship when depicted as a function of the texture-defining features of the figure. This finding is interpreted as evidence for BBS/gamma synchrony being the underlying mechanism of the figure-ground segregation.

      Note that I chose to use "BBS" over gamma synchrony (used by the authors) in this review, as I am not convinced that the authors show evidence for synchronization in the gamma-band.

      We thank the reviewer for their careful assessment of our manuscript and useful comments that we believe have served to strengthen our work.

      Strengths:

      The design of the proposed model is well-informed by electrophysiological findings, and the idea of using computational modeling to bridge between intracranial recordings in non-human primates and behavioral results in human participants is interesting. Previous work has criticized the BBS synchrony theory based on the observation that synchronization in the gamma-band is highly localized and the frequency of the oscillation depends on the visual features of the stimulus. I appreciate how the authors demonstrate that frequency-dependence and local synchronization can be features of BBS, and not contradictory to the theory. As such, I feel that this work has the potential to contribute meaningfully to the debate on whether BBS is a biophysically realistic model of feature-binding in visual cortex.

      Weaknesses:

      I have several concerns regarding the presented claims, assessment of meaning and size of the presented effects, particularly with regard to the absence of a priori defined effect sizes.

      Firstly, the paper makes strong claims about the frequency-specificity (i.e., gamma synchrony) and anatomical correlates (early visual cortex) of the observed effects. These claims are informed by previous electrophysiological work in non-human primates but are not directly supported by the paper itself. For instance, the title contains the word "gamma synchrony", but the authors do not demonstrate any EEG/MEG or intracranial data in from their human subjects supporting such claims, nor do they demonstrate that the frequencies in the oscillator model are within the gamma band. I think that the paper should more clearly distinguish between statements that are directly supported by the paper (such as: "an oscillator model based on BBS principles accounts for variance in human behavior") and abstract inferences based on the literature (such as "these effects could be attributed to gamma oscillations in early visual cortex, as the model was designed based on those principles").

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful comment and agree that the scope of our claims should be clearly delineated between what is directly supported by our data and what is theoretically inferred from prior literature.

      We revised the Abstract, Introduction, and early Discussion to moderate the strength of our statements and make the distinction explicit. The revised title now emphasizes that our study tests principles derived from prior work on gamma synchrony rather than directly demonstrating gamma activity in humans. Throughout the text, we use more cautious phrasing that highlights potential mechanisms and theoretical predictions. The intention of our study was not to position synchrony as the only viable mechanism of figure–ground perception. Rather, our goal was to reinvigorate it as a potential contender by showing that features often cited as limitations of synchrony-based binding may in fact be essential properties of the mechanism. We updated phrasing throughout the manuscript to make this clearer and avoid overstating the study’s contribution.

      Importantly, our model is not agnostic with respect to frequency band. Oscillator frequencies exhibited by model units are within the gamma range by design. Frequency emerges directly from the contrast within each oscillator’s receptive field, following an empirically established relationship between stimulus contrast and gamma frequency. To our knowledge, such a robust, quantitative relationship between stimulus features to exact oscillation frequency has not been consistently demonstrated for other frequency bands. This relationship yields gamma-band frequencies for all contrasts used in our simulations. The model is thus indeed a gamma oscillator model of V1, not a generic instantiation of Binding by Synchrony (BBS) principles.

      That said, we fully agree with the reviewer that our study cannot demonstrate a direct link between gamma synchrony in visual cortex and human behavior. Our behavioral and modeling results instead show that synchronization principles derived from gamma-band physiology in V1 can predict perceptual performance patterns. We now make this distinction explicit throughout the revised manuscript.

      Secondly, unlike the human participants, the model strictly does not perform figure-ground segregation, as it only receives the figure as an input.

      We thank the reviewer for the opportunity to clarify our modeling approach. We chose not to model the background to reduce computational cost, since including it requires a substantially larger number of oscillators without changing the model’s predictions. The model thus indeed only receives the figure region as input. We aimed to test the local grouping mechanism predicted by TWCO, rather than to simulate a full figure–ground segregation process including a read-out stage. Our model therefore isolates the conditions under which local synchrony emerges within the figure region, assuming that a downstream read-out mechanism (not explicitly modeled here) would detect regions of coherent activity. The exact nature of such a read-out mechanism was beyond the scope of our work.

      To confirm that our simplified model is a valid proxy, we ran additional simulations including the background and found that a coherent figure assembly reliably emerges, as can be seen in the phase-locking patterns relative to a reference oscillator at the center of the figure. This validates that the principles of local grouping we studied in isolation hold even when the figure is embedded in a noisy surround. We have added an explicit note in the Results (paragraph 2) that we only simulate the figure and added Supplementary Figure S1 showing the additional simulations.

      Finally, it is unclear what effect sizes the authors would have expected a priori, making it difficult to assess whether their oscillator model represents the data well or poorly. I consider this a major concern, as the relationship between the synchrony of the oscillatory model and the performance of the human participants is confounded by the visual features of the figure. Specifically, the authors use the BBS literature to motivate the hypothesis that perception of the texture-defined figure is related to the density and contrast heterogeneity of the texture elements (gabor annuli) of the figure. This hypothesis has to be true regardless of synchrony, as the figure will be easier to spot if it consists of a higher number of high-contrast gabors than the background. As the frequency and phase of the oscillators and coupling strength between oscillators in the grid change as a function of these visual features, I wonder how much of the correlation between model synchrony and human performance is mediated by the features of the figure. To interpret to what extent the similarity between model and human behavior relies on the oscillatory nature of the model, the authors should find a way to estimate an empirical threshold that accounts for these confounding effects. Alternatively, it would be interesting to understand whether a model based on competing theories (e.g., Binding by Enhanced Firing, Roelfsema, 2023) would perform better or worse at explaining the data.

      We thank the reviewer for these insightful and constructive comments, which have prompted additional analyses that we believe substantially strengthen our work. The reviewer raises two main points: (1) the need for a benchmark to assess our model’s performance, and (2) the concern that the relationship between model synchrony and behavior might be a non-causal “confound” of the visual features. We address each point below.

      (1) Benchmarking model performance

      We agree that it is important to assess how well our model performs relative to the data and included this in the original manuscript. We did not predefine an absolute good fit threshold because absolute agreement depends on irreducible noise and inter-subject variability, making a universal cutoff arbitrary. Instead, we had benchmarked model performance in two complementary ways. First, the noise ceiling shown in Figure 5 provides an empirical benchmark for the maximum fit any model could achieve on our data. Simulated Arnold tongues (based on synchrony) approach this ceiling achieving 89% of possible similarity for correlation and 79% of possible similarity for weighted Jaccard similarity, respectively. Second, the parameter sweep (Figure 3) situates our model’s performance within the broader parameter space. It shows that the model, whose key parameters were fixed a priori from independent macaque neurophysiological data, lies close to the optimal regime for explaining the human data. It also provides an estimate of the lower bound (worst-performing point) on the fit that a misspecified model implementing the identical mechanism would achieve. Our model with fixed a priori parameters does 1.41 times better than a misspecified model for the correlation fit metric and 3 times better for weighted Jaccard similarity.

      (2) Synchrony as mechanism vs. potential confound

      We appreciate the reviewer’s suggestion to test whether synchrony explains behavior beyond stimulus features. In our framework, synchrony is a near-deterministic function of the manipulated stimulus features given fixed model parameters. As a result, synchrony and the stimulus features are collinear (R<sup>2</sup>≈0.8) leaving no independent variance for synchrony to explain once stimulus features are included. Adding both into one statistical model yields unstable coefficients and no out-of-sample improvement.

      Mechanistically, we believe the relevant question is not whether synchrony explains behavior beyond stimulus features but whether synchrony is the correct transformation of the stimulus features to reproduce the behavioral pattern. Please note that in our design we ensured that mean contrast and luminance are identical in the figure and the background such that there are not more high-contrast Gabors in the figure than in the background. We did this with the aim to render mean contrast not a relevant feature. However, there are more high-contrast Gabors in the background, and it is conceivable that the absence of such high contrasts in the figure drives the detection/discrimination of the figure. We therefore agree that testing alternative models would further clarify the unique explanatory value of the synchrony mechanism. To that end, we derived two alternative rate-based readouts from the same V1 simulations of our model from which we derived synchrony. First, average firing rates inside the figure and second, the difference between average firing rates inside the figure and average firing rates in the background (rate difference). We analyzed each individually as predictors of behavior and performed a model comparison based on out-of-sample predictions. While rate difference (but not average firing) showed meaningful associations with performance when considered alone, the synchrony readout had a larger effect size and was favored by the model comparison. We added a new subsection comparing synchrony to rate-based alternatives in the Results (paragraphs 7-9), including additional Bayesian analyses and LOO-CV model comparison. Please note that the model comparison we added to the manuscript provides an additional benchmark beyond the map-level ceiling analysis. It indicates that the mapping from stimulus features to behavior via synchrony generalizes best without requiring an a priori good-fit threshold.

      We agree that formally comparing our model to a sophisticated rate-based alternative, such as an instantiation of the Binding by Enhanced Firing model, is an important direction for future work. However, it remains an open and non-trivial question whether such a model could quantitatively reproduce the precise shape of the behavioral Arnold tongue that emerges from the systematic manipulation of our stimulus parameters. Implementing and parameterizing such a model in a comparable, biologically grounded framework is a substantial undertaking that lies beyond the scope of the current study. Therefore, our goal here was not to claim exclusivity for synchrony-based mechanisms, but rather to re-evaluate their plausibility by showing that features often seen as limitations (stimulus dependence and frequency heterogeneity) are, in fact, essential characteristics of the TWCO framework that can predict complex behavioral outcomes.

      We would also like to clarify that our stimulus features were derived from theory rather than psychophysical literature. Starting from the principles of TWCO, we mapped frequency detuning and coupling strength onto known anatomical and physiological properties of early visual cortex, and only then derived the corresponding stimulus manipulations (contrast heterogeneity and grid coarseness). Demonstrating that these features predict behavior is therefore not trivial but constitutes a first empirical confirmation that the core TWCO variables match perception.

      Apart from adding analyses of additional rate-based readouts of our model, we also refined our discussion of the relationship between these and a synchrony-based mechanism.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      The authors aimed to investigate whether gamma synchrony serves a functional role in figure-ground perception. They specifically sought to test whether the stimulus-dependence of gamma synchrony, often considered a limitation, actually facilitates perceptual grouping. Using the theory of weakly coupled oscillators (TWCO), they developed a framework wherein synchronization depends on both frequency detuning (related to contrast heterogeneity) and coupling strength (related to proximity between visual elements). Through psychophysical experiments with texture discrimination tasks and computational modeling, they tested whether human performance follows patterns predicted by TWCO and whether perceptual learning enhances synchrony-based grouping.

      We thank the reviewer for their thoughtful and constructive review. We believe the comments have served to improve our work.

      Strengths:

      (1) The theoretical framework connecting TWCO to visual perception is innovative and well-articulated, providing a potential mechanistic explanation for how gamma synchrony might contribute to both feature binding and separation.

      (2) The methodology combines psychophysical measurements with computational modeling, with a solid quantitative agreement between model predictions and human performance.

      (3) In particular, the demonstration that coupling strengths can be modified through experience is remarkable and suggests gamma synchrony could be an adaptable mechanism that improves with visual learning.

      (4) The cross-validation approach, wherein model parameters derived from macaque neurophysiology successfully predict human performance, strengthens the biological plausibility of the framework.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The highly controlled stimuli are far removed from natural scenes, raising questions about generalisability. But, of course, control (almost) excludes ecological validity. The study does not address the challenges of natural vision or leverage the rich statistical structure afforded by natural scenes.

      We agree with the reviewer that the insights of the present study are limited to texture stimuli and have made adjustments in the Discussion (final two paragraphs) to avoid claiming generalizability to natural stimuli. We have also adjusted the title to specifically limit our results to texture stimuli. To establish the principles of TWCO, we needed tight control over the stimulus, but are intrigued by the idea to investigate natural scenes. We have added to our Discussion (paragraph 9) that future should evaluate to what extent the principles we investigate here apply to natural scenes. Synchrony-based mechanisms have been successfully used for image segmentation tasks in machine vision, showing that the proposed mechanism can in principle work for natural scenes.

      (2) The experimental design appears primarily confirmatory rather than attempting to challenge the TWCO framework or test boundary conditions where it might fail.

      We thank the reviewer for this important point. Our primary motivation was to address the neurophysiological properties of gamma synchrony that have been suggested to severely challenge the binding by synchrony mechanism. Particularly the strong dependence of gamma oscillations and synchrony on stimulus features. Our goal was to show that from the perspective of TWCO, these challenges become expected components of the mechanism. In essence, we wanted to promote a conceptual shift that converts what pushes a theory to its limit into something that is actually its central tenet. To facilitate this shift, we designed the experiment to directly test this core tenet.

      While our approach was designed to test a central prediction of TWCO rather than explicitly challenge its boundaries, we respectfully argue that it was far from a simple confirmatory experiment. The design incorporated high-risk elements that provided considerable room for both the theory and our model to fail. First, the core prediction itself was non-obvious and highly specific. We did not simply test whether contrast heterogeneity and grid coarseness affect perception. We tested the stronger hypothesis that they would reflect a specific, interactive trade-off (the behavioral Arnold tongue) as specified by TWCO. Second, our modeling approach was deliberately constrained to provide a further stringent test. We did not post-hoc optimize the model's key parameters to fit our behavioral data. Instead, we fixed them a priori based on independent neurophysiological data from macaques. This was a high-risk choice, as a mismatch between a priori model predictions and the human data would have seriously challenged the framework's generalizability.

      We agree that future research should further challenge TWCO. For instance, by using stimuli that require segregating several objects simultaneously or objects that cover more extensive regions of the visual field.

      (3) Alternative explanations for the observed behavioral effects are not thoroughly explored. While the model provides a good fit to the data, this does not conclusively prove that gamma synchrony is the actual mechanism underlying the observed effects.

      We agree that our results do not conclusively show that gamma synchrony is the actual mechanism underlying figure-ground segregation. We admit that the original phrasing used throughout the manuscript was too strong and gave the impression that we wanted to establish exactly that. However, the goal of our work was only to reinvigorate gamma synchrony as a potential contender by showing that features often cited as limitations of synchrony-based binding may in fact be essential properties of the mechanism. We have revised the title and made adjustments throughout the manuscript to better reflect this more moderate goal.

      Additionally, we added tests of alternatives (Results, paragraphs 7–9) to clarify the unique explanatory value of the synchrony mechanism. To that end, we derived two alternative rate-based readouts from the same V1 simulations of our model. First, we extracted average firing rates inside the figure. Second, we computed the difference between average firing rates inside the figure and average firing rates in the background (rate difference). We analyzed each individually as predictors of behavior and performed a model comparison between these two and synchrony based on out-of-sample predictions. While the rate difference (but not average firing) showed meaningful associations with performance when considered alone, the synchrony readout had a larger effect size and was favored by the model comparison.

      (4) Direct neurophysiological evidence linking the observed behavioral effects to gamma synchrony in humans is absent, creating a gap between the model and the neural mechanism.

      We agree that the model only provides a how-possibly account linking stimulus features to performance. Showing that the brain actually relies on this mechanism would require showing that cortical synchrony mediates the effect of stimulus features on behavior beyond firing rates. Collecting such data would constitute a major effort that would go beyond the scope of this study. We acknowledge the need for electrophysiological data and the mediation analysis in the updated Discussion.

      Achievement of Aims and Support for Conclusions:

      The authors largely achieved their primary aim of demonstrating that human figure-ground perception follows patterns predicted by TWCO principles. Their psychophysical results reveal a behavioral "Arnold tongue" that matches the synchronization patterns predicted by their model, and their learning experiment shows that perceptual improvements correlate with predicted increases in synchrony.

      The evidence supports their conclusion that gamma synchrony could serve as a viable neural grouping mechanism for figure-ground segregation. However, the conclusion that "stimulus-dependence of gamma synchrony is adaptable to the statistics of visual experiences" is only partially supported, as the study uses highly controlled artificial stimuli rather than naturalistic visual statistics, or shows a sensitivity to the structure of experience.

      Likely Impact and Utility:

      This work offers a fresh perspective on the functional role of gamma oscillations in visual perception. The integration of TWCO with perceptual learning provides a novel theoretical framework that could influence future research on neural synchrony.

      The computational model, with parameters derived from neurophysiological data, offers a useful tool for predicting perceptual performance based on synchronization principles. This approach might be extended to study other perceptual phenomena and could inspire designs for artificial vision systems.

      The learning component of the study may have a particular impact, as it suggests a mechanism by which perceptual expertise develops through modified coupling between neural assemblies. This could influence thinking about perceptual learning more broadly, but also raises questions about the underlying mechanism that the paper does not address.

      Additional Context:

      Historically, the functional significance of gamma oscillations has been debated, with early theories of temporal binding giving way to skepticism based on gamma's stimulus-dependence. This study reframes this debate by suggesting that stimulus-dependence is exactly what makes gamma useful for perceptual grouping.

      The successful combination of computational neuroscience and psychophysics is a significant strength of this study.

      The field would benefit from future work extending (if possible) these findings to more naturalistic stimuli and directly measuring neural activity during perceptual tasks. Additionally, studies comparing predictions from synchrony-based models against alternative mechanisms would help establish the specificity of the proposed framework.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewing Editor Comments:

      In a joint discussion to integrate the peer reviews and agree on the eLife recommendations, both reviewers agreed that the work is valuable, but they were on the fence about whether the strength of evidence was incomplete or solid, eventually settling on incomplete. The reviewers make several recommendations for improving these ratings, which I (Reviewing Editor) have organised into 3 points below, with point 1 of particular importance. Underneath the summary, please see the individual recommendations of the reviewers.

      (1) Strengthen evidence for the unique role of gamma synchrony in explaining the data, and ensuring claims are directly supported by relevant data:

      Reviewers 2 and 3 both note the lack of direct evidence for gamma involvement, and reviewer 2 observes that the fit with behaviour may trivially be explained by a relationship between contrast heterogeneity and grid coarseness without need for oscillation. The reviewers felt that the approach of fitting the model to human data could be strengthened to help address this issue - and they offer various solutions, e.g., more principled a-priori criteria around good vs bad fit of the model to both main task and training data, and comparison to alternative binding models (Reviewer 2), identifying and testing boundary conditions of the model (Reviewer 3). There is also the possibility of collecting direct human neurophysiological evidence linking the behavioural data to neural mechanisms. Our discussion also highlighted the need to weaken claims (including in the title) where links are not directly demonstrated by methods from the present study, e.g., resting on indirect comparisons to primate literature.

      We agree with the editor and reviewers that this was a critical point. To address it, we have made several major revisions.

      As suggested, we have weakened claims where the links are not directly demonstrated by our data. The title has been revised to be more specific, and we have carefully edited the abstract, introduction, and discussion to distinguish between our model's predictions and direct neurophysiological evidence.

      To address the concern that our model's fit might be trivially explained by visual features, we have performed a new analysis comparing the synchrony-based readout to two alternative rate-based readouts from the same V1 simulations. This new comparison shows that the synchrony readout provides a superior out-of-sample prediction of human behavior.

      While a full implementation of a competing theory like "Binding by Enhanced Firing" would be a valuable next step, we note that parameterizing such a model in a comparably grounded framework is a substantial undertaking beyond the scope of the present study. Our new analysis provides an important first step in this direction.

      (2) Make explicit and address the limitations of the stimuli:

      Include that the model is not extracting the figure from the background, and the controlled stimuli may limit generalizability.

      To address the concern that our model was not performing true figure-ground extraction, we performed a new set of simulations that included both the figure and the immediate background. The results confirm that synchrony dynamics within the figure region are not affected by the presence of the background. We added these validation results as supplementary materials. We have additionally made the modeling choice and its justification more explicit in the Results and Methods sections.

      We have revised the Discussion to be more explicit about the limitations of using highly controlled texture stimuli. We now clearly state that our findings are specific to this context and that further research is required to determine if these principles generalize to the segregation of objects in natural scenes.

      (3) Some clarifications to make more accessible:

      Include the figure explaining the framework (Reviewers 1&2), and also the model details (Reviewer 2).

      We have revised Figure 1 and its caption to more clearly illustrate the links from TWCO principles to their neural implementation in V1 and the resulting behavioral predictions.

      We have expanded the Methods section to provide a more detailed and accessible description of the model's construction. We now clarify precisely how the oscillator grid was defined in visual space, how eccentricity-dependent receptive field sizes were implemented, and how these were mapped onto a retinotopic cortical surface to determine coupling strengths.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (A) Major concerns:

      (1) My main concern:

      My main concern is the repeated claims that the observed findings can be attributed to gamma synchrony in the early visual cortex. I find this claim misleading as the authors do not report any electrophysiological data that directly supports such claims. As stated in my public review, I feel that the authors should be clear about direct evidence versus more abstract inferences based on the literature.

      In particular, I recommend changing claims about "gamma synchrony" to "Binding by Synchrony" That being said, the authors can outline that the model was built under the assumption that this synchrony is mediated by gamma in early visual cortex, but I don't think it should be part of their main conclusions.

      We appreciate that TWCO’s general principles are frequency-agnostic and can be viewed as binding by synchrony in a broad sense. Our work, however, specifically instantiates these principles in V1 gamma: the model reflects TWCO dynamics together with V1 anatomy/physiology and the well-established contrast–frequency relationship in the gamma range (which, to our knowledge, has not been demonstrated with comparable specificity for other bands). In that sense, it is a gamma oscillator model of V1, rather than a generic BBS instantiation. Moreover, stimulus dependencies often cited as challenges to BBS have been used in particular to argue against gamma; showing that these very dependencies are integral to the TWCO mechanism is central to our contribution, and we therefore keep our conclusions focused on the gamma-specific instantiation tested here.

      (2) Mediation of the observed effects by the visual features of the figure:

      The authors motivate the hypothesis that BBS predicts that the perception of texture-defined objects depends on the density of texture elements and their contrast heterogeneity. This hypothesis seems trivial as those are the features that distinguish figure from ground. I think it would be important to clarify how this hypothesis is unique to BBS and not explained by competing theories, such as Binding by Enhanced Firing (Roelfsema, 2023). The authors should be clear about what part of the hypothesis is not trivial based on the task and clearly attributable to oscillators and synchrony.

      Our stimulus features were derived from theory rather than psychophysical literature. Starting from the principles of TWCO, we mapped frequency detuning and coupling strength onto known anatomical and physiological properties of early visual cortex, and only then derived the corresponding stimulus manipulations (contrast heterogeneity and grid coarseness). We agree that grid coarseness (element distance) is an established facilitator of figure–ground perception. By contrast, contrast heterogeneity (feature variance) is less commonly emphasized as a figure–ground cue, compared to mean-based cues, but follows directly from TWCO’s frequency detuning. Importantly, mean contrast and luminance were matched exactly between figure and background in our stimuli. Demonstrating that contrast heterogeneity and grid coarseness not only independently affect figure-ground perception, but reflect a trade-off where higher heterogeneity needs to counteracted by reduced grid coarseness in the way TWCO specifies is therefore non-obvious and provides an initial empirical indication that the core TWCO variables might shape perception. We also agree that alternative models would further clarify the unique explanatory value of synchrony. In the revised manuscript, we compare rate-based readouts (mean figure rate; figure–background rate difference) with the synchrony readout from the same simulations. Rate difference indeed constitutes a predictor of performance, but the synchrony readout showed a larger effect and was preferred by out-of-sample model comparison.

      Using a linear model, the authors assess the relationship between discrimination accuracy and synchrony. Did the authors also include the factors grid coarseness and contrast heterogeneity in this model? Again, as both the task performance (as shown by the GEE analysis) and oscillatory synchrony depend on these features, the relationship between model and behavioral performance will be mediated by the visual features.

      Thank you for raising this. In our framework, detuning (via contrast heterogeneity) and coupling (via grid coarseness) are the inputs, synchrony is the proposed mechanistic mediator, and behavior is the output. Because synchrony in our model is a (near-)deterministic function of the manipulated features under fixed parameters, a joint features+synchrony regression is statistically ill-posed (perfect multicollinearity up to numerical error) and cannot add information. A proper mediation test would require trial-wise neural measurements of synchrony in the same task, which we do not have and acknowledge as a limitation in the Discussion. Accordingly, we show that both the features themselves (reflecting TWCO principles) and model-derived synchrony (realizing the proposed pathway) account for behavior.

      We agree this does not establish a unique contribution of synchrony. To probe alternatives, we added rate-based readouts and a model comparison to the revised manuscript. These additional analyses indicate that synchrony outperforms simple rate-based mappings. We do not claim this rules out more sophisticated rate-based mechanisms. Our aim is to demonstrate that synchrony is a viable, behaviorally informative readout for downstream processing. We do not assert it is the only mechanism the brain uses. Synchrony had been discounted due to its stimulus dependence; our results are intended to rule it back in. We have made changes throughout the manuscript to better reflect this more modest aim.

      (3) Goodness of fit measures are not established a prior:

      I have described this concern in my public review. It is hard to assess what the authors would have interpreted as a good or a bad fit, especially without accounting for the confound in the relationship between oscillator synchrony and behavior. Similarly, when assessing the similarity between the behavioral and dynamic Arnold Tongues across different coupling parameters, the authors found that the chosen parameters (based on macaque data) were not optimal. They offer the explanation that the human cortex has a lower coupling decay than the macaque cortex, and the similarity is higher for lower values of coupling decay. While this explanation is not entirely implausible, it is unclear where an oscillator model with human values would be in the presented plot, as the authors didn't estimate those values from the human studies. Moreover, the task used in the Lowet et al., 2017 paper is very different from the task presented here, which could also account for differences. Overall, the explanation appears hand-wavy considering the lack of empirically defined goodness of fit measures.

      Thank you for these concerns.

      We did indeed not provide a priori thresholds for what would be considered good fit. Instead, we used two complementary benchmarks; namely noise ceilings and parameter exploration. The former provides an upper bound on what any model (not just ours but based on completely different mechanisms) could achieve given our data. The parameter sweep provides an indication how well our concrete model can maximally fit the data and how bad it can be based on possible parameters. These benchmarks are more informative than a fixed a-priori cutoff, which would depend on unknown noise and inter-subject variability. Both the noise ceiling and the parameter exploration indicate that our model, using a priori fixed parameters, performs well. Additionally, we redid all our statistical analyses after z-normalizing every predictor to provide easier interpretation of effect sizes.

      Regarding the reason that key model parameters were not optimal, we believe our interpretation to be plausible. We agree that we currently do not have data to estimate the exact human decay factor and hence cannot establish how much model fit would be affected. However, the parameter exploration in Figure 3 shows that small to modest reductions in decay would improve model fit. We discuss this now in the revised manuscript.

      The reviewer’s suggestion is intriguing. While Lowet et al. (2017) used a different task, the parameters we took from their work (decay rate and maximum coupling) are intended to reflect anatomical properties and thus should not be task-dependent. That said, Lowet et al. ‘s data carry uncertainty, so our estimates may not be exact; we note this explicitly in the revised Discussion. Whether a different task would have yielded better parameter estimates is difficult to determine, but we considered Lowet’s paradigm appropriate because it was designed to target the same V1 anatomical and physiological properties that map onto TWCO.

      I have concerns about a similar confound in the training effects. If I'm not mistaken, the Hebbian Learning rule encourages synchronization between the oscillators in the grid. As such, it causes synchronization to increase over several simulations. Clearly, the task performance of the participants also improves over the sessions. Again, an empirical threshold would be required to assess whether the similarity in learning between model and performance goes beyond what is expected based on learning alone. How much of these effects can be attributed to the model being oscillatory?

      The reviewer is correct that, in our framework, learning operates via changes in coupling that increase synchrony. Enhanced synchrony is the proposed (and in our model also the actual) pathway by which learning impacts behavior. We agree that learning could, in principle, act through pathways other than synchrony. Demonstrating this would not be achieved by a mediation analysis here, because that requires independent, trial-level neural measurements of the candidate pathways (synchrony and alternatives). In the absence of such data, the appropriate approach would be model comparison between competing mechanistic readouts. We have added such a model comparison for a synchrony readout versus two rate-based readouts derived from the same simulations for the first session; i.e., focusing on the pathway from stimulus features to behavior. However, a similar model comparison is not possible for learning. As we show in the supplementary materials, rate-based readouts of our V1 model are not at all affected by coupling strength. As such, they are insensitive to changes in coupling and are thus not viable as alternative mechanisms to explain performance changes due to learning. A fair test of rate-based alternatives would require building a detailed rate-based figure–ground segregation model that predicts session-wise changes. We agree that this is an important next step but it is also substantial undertaking beyond the scope of the present study.

      (4) Similarly, for the comparison of the Arnold Tongue in the transfer session and the early session:

      In the first part of the Results section, it says: "Our model rests on the assumption that learning-induced structural changes in early visual cortex are specific to the retinotopic locations of the trained stimuli. We evaluated whether this assumption holds for our human participants using the transfer session following the main training period. [...] If learning is indeed local, participants' performance in the transfer session should resemble that of early training sessions, indicating a reset in performance for the new retinal location."

      The authors find that a model fit to session 3 explains the data in the transfer session best and consider this as evidence for the above-stated expectation. Again, it is unclear where the cutoff would have been for a session to be declared as early or late. For instance, had the participants only performed 4 sessions, would the performance be best explained by session 3 or session 1?

      A high number of statistical tests are used, which, firstly, need to be corrected for multiple comparisons (did the authors do this?). Secondly, I feel that the regression models could be improved. For instance, the authors fit one model per session and then assess how well each model explains the variance in the transfer session. I think the authors might want to opt for one model with the regressors contrast heterogeneity, grid coarseness, and session (and their interaction). Using this approach, the authors would still be able to assess which session predicts the data best. Similarly, interindividual variability could be accounted for by adding participant-specific random effects to the model (and using a mixed model), instead of fitting individual models per participant.

      We agree the “early vs late” cutoff was underspecified. In the revision, we predefine Session 2 as the early-learning reference, excluding Session 1 to avoid familiarization/response–mapping effects. We then fit a single Bayesian hierarchical model with contrast heterogeneity, grid coarseness, and session, plus a transfer indicator, and participant-level random effects. This allows us to place the transfer session on the same scale as training and to test a) whether the transfer session precedes the state in session 2 via the posterior contrast P(βtransfer<βSess2) and b) whether it is indistinguishable from the state in session two using an equivalence test derived from the fitted model. We find that the transfer session is equivalent to session 2. We added this updated analysis of the transfer session in the Results (paragraph 15).

      In response to the suggestion to use a hierarchical regression model for analyzing the transfer session, we have decided to use such a model for all our analyses in a Bayesian framework. In this Bayesian framework, inference is based on the joint posterior (credible intervals/equivalence) of all predictors in a model and additional post-hoc multiplicity corrections are not required.

      (5) Questions regarding the model:

      What does it mean that the grid was "defined in visual space"? How biologically plausible with regard to the retinotopy and organization of the oscillators do the authors claim the model to be?

      We are happy to clarify this point. We have a total of 400 oscillators reflecting neural assemblies in V1. We start by defining a regular, 20x20, grid of the receptive field (RF) centers of these oscillators inside the figure region. Each oscillator is then also assigned a RF size based on the eccentricity of its RF center. We use the threshold-linear relationship between RF eccentricity and RF size reported in [1] to assign RF sizes. Each oscillator thus has an individual, eccentricity-dependent, RF size.

      For the coupling between oscillators, we need to know their cortical distances. We obtain these by first determining the cortical location of each oscillator through a complex-logarithmic topographic mapping of neuronal receptive field coordinates onto the cortical surface [2,3]. For this mapping, we use human parameter values estimated by [4]. From these cortical locations, we then compute pairwise Euclidean distances.

      The model thus captures realistic retinotopy, eccentricity-dependent RF sizes, and distance-dependent coupling on the cortical surface. We have adjusted our Methods to make these steps clearer.

      (1) Freeman, J., & Simoncelli, E. P. (2011). Metamers of the ventral stream. Nature neuroscience, 14(9), 1195-1201.

      (2) Balasubramanian, M., & Schwartz, E. L. (2002). The isomap algorithm and topological stability. Science, 295(5552), 7. https://doi.org/10.1126/science.1066234

      (3) Schwartz, E. L. (1980). Computational anatomy and functional architecture of striate cortex: a spatial mapping approach to perceptual coding. Vision Research, 20(8), 645–669. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0042698980900905

      (4) Polimeni, J. R., Hinds, O. P., Balasubramanian, M., van der Kouwe, A. J. W., Wald, L. L., Dale, A. M., & Schwartz, E. L. (2005). Two-dimensional mathematical structure of the human visuotopic map complex in V1, V2, and V3 measured via fMRI at 3 and 7 Tesla. Journal of Vision, 5(8), 898. https://doi.org/10.1167/5.8.898

      Similarly, do the authors claim that each gabor annuli stimulates a single receptive field in V1?

      We hope that with the additional explanation above, it is clearer that there is not a one-to-one mapping. Each oscillator samples the local image by pooling over all Gabor annuli that overlap its receptive field (partially or fully) and computes the average contrast within its RF. Conversely, a single annulus typically overlaps multiple RFs and contributes to each in proportion to the overlap.

      I am unsure how the oscillators were organized, if not retinotopically. How is the retinotopic input fed into the non-retinotopically arranged oscillators?

      We hope that with the additional explanation above, it is clearer that the network is strictly retinotopic.

      The frequency of each oscillator changes according to ω=2πv with ν=25+0.25C. How were the values for the linear regression in v chosen? Reference?

      The slope and intercept parameters for this equation were first reported in [5]. We added the reference to the Methods.

      (5) Lowet, E., Roberts, M., Hadjipapas, A., Peter, A., van der Eerden, J., & De Weerd, P. (2015). Input-dependent frequency modulation of cortical gamma oscillations shapes spatial synchronization and enables phase coding. PLoS computational biology, 11(2), e1004072.

      (6) Hebbian Learning Rule:

      I am confused about how the effective learning rate E= ∈t is calculated. It is said that it is estimated based on the similarity between the second experimental session and the distribution of synchrony after letting the model learn. How can the model learn without knowing epsilon and t?

      We agree with the reviewer that our procedure to estimate the effective learning rate requires further clarification. We performed a nested grid search. Essentially, we let the model learn between session 1 and 2 with each of 25 candidate effective learning rates and evaluate how well each of them allow the model to fit performance in session 2. We then select the best effective learning rate and create a new, smaller, grid around this value and repeat that procedure. In total we perform 5 nested grids to arrive at the final effective learning rate. We expanded the explanation in the Methods.

      (B) Minor concerns:

      (1) Small N: 2/3 of the studies that were cited to justify the small sample were notably different from the current experiment, i.e., Intoy 2020 is an eye movement task, Lange 2020 is a memory task (Tesileanu 2020 is more similar). I think a power analysis would be great to support, as the sample size seems quite low

      Our study uses a within-subject design with ~750 trials per session (≈6,000 total) per participant, analyzed with a hierarchical model that pools information across trials and participants. To assess adequacy, we ran a simulation-based design analysis using the fitted hierarchical model (i.e., post hoc, based on the observed variance components). This analysis indicated a detection probability >90% for all key effects. We now report the results of this design analysis in the (Supplementary Table 1) and note this in the Results (paragraph 1).

      Regarding the literature context, we agree the cited studies are not identical to ours; we referenced them to illustrate a common practice (small N with many trials) when targeting low-level, early-visual mechanisms. Intoy (pattern/contrast sensitivity) and Lange (perceptual learning in early vision) share that focus, while Tesileanu is methodologically closest.

      (2) Figure 1 could be more informative and better described in the text. The authors often don't refer to the panels in Figure 1. Maybe it would help to swap a and b to describe the Arnold tongue first? It might also be a good idea to add the coupling strength and frequency detuning axes

      We have swapped panels a and b and now refer to each panel in the main text to enhance clarity.

      (3) Values of rho (distance - is this degrees visual angle)? Do the authors assume that the size of the stimuli corresponds to receptive fields in V1? If so, how is this justified?

      The center-to-center distance between any pair of neighboring annuli is indeed expressed in degrees of visual angle. Rho is a scaling factor for this distance. With rho=1, the center-to-center distance corresponds to the diameter of the annuli; i.e., they touch but do not overlap each other. We do not assume any relation between the size of receptive fields and the size of the annuli. Receptive field sizes in our model are purely determined by their eccentricity and each oscillator can have several annuli within its receptive field while each annulus can fall within several overlapping receptive fields of different oscillators. We believe that the schematic illustration in Figure 1 might have given the impression that each oscillator sees exactly one annulus and added a note that this is not the case and merely an oversimplification to illustrate the relationship between contrast and intrinsic frequency.

      (4) Some equations are embedded in the text, and some are not. It might be easier to find the respective equation if they all have an index. For instance, the authors mention the psychometric function that relates model synchrony and performance in the results section. It would be easier to find if it had an index that the authors could refer to.

      We moved this equation as well as the contrast intrinsic frequency mapping from inline to displayed and numbered them.

      (5) Is there a reference for "Our model rests on the assumption that learning-induced structural changes in early visual cortex are specific to the retinotopic locations of the trained stimuli"? (If so, it should be cited.)

      We added references supporting this assumption.

      (6) Figure 2b: colorbar missing label.

      We added the label.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Cool work!

      (1) The reader would benefit from (a single) comprehensive figure that visually explains the entire conceptual framework-from TWCO principles to neural implementation to behavioural predictions-accessible to readers without specialised knowledge of oscillatory dynamics. This will give the paper a greater impact.

      We have adjusted Figure 1 in accordance with suggestions made by reviewer 1 and added further explanations to the caption and the Introduction to enhance clarity on how the principles of TWCO relate to neural implementation.

      (2) I think this paper would benefit from the audience eLife provides, but the paper could move closer to the audience.

      (3) Pride comes before the fall, but I am not the most uninformed reader, and it took me some effort to process everything.

      Thank you, we took this to heart. In the Introduction, we now state more explicitly how each variable is operationalized and how these map onto TWCO with improved reference to relevant panels in the schematic figure. We agree the framework is conceptually dense. TWCO principles reach the stimuli through specific V1 anatomy and physiology, so there are several links to keep in mind. Our goal with the revised introduction and figure is to make those links better visible.

      (4) You could consider discussing potential implications for understanding perceptual disorders characterized by altered neural synchrony (e.g., schizophrenia, autism) and how your learning paradigm might inform perceptual training interventions.

      Thank you for this suggestion. We have added that TWCO might provide a new lens to study perceptual disorders to the Discussion. We provide a concrete example of the relation between grouping, gamma synchrony (in light of TWCO) and lateral connectivity in schizophrenia

      (5) I think this paper has real strength, but rather than dispersing limitations throughout the discussion, create a dedicated section that systematically addresses ecological validity, alternative explanations, and generalisability concerns. This will also preempt criticism.

      We appreciate the suggestion. Our preference is to discuss limitations in context, next to the specific results they qualify, so readers see why each limitation matters and how it affects interpretation. Nevertheless, paragraph 7 on page 20 summarizes most limitations in a single paragraph.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer 1 (Public review):

      When do behavioral differences emerge between the task variants? Based on the results and discussion, the cues increase the salience of either the wins or the losses, biasing behavior in favor of either risky or optimal choice. If this is the case, one might expect the cues to expedite learning, particularly in the standard and loss condition. Providing an analysis of the acquisition of the tasks may provide insight into how the cues are "teaching" decision-making and might explain how biases are formed and cemented.

      While considerable differences in decision making emerge in early sessions of training, we do not observe any evidence that cuing outcomes expedites the development of stable choice patterns. Indeed, since the outcomes are cued across all four options, there is no categorical difference in salience between optimal and risky choices. Thus, our interpretation is that cuing wins and/or losses alters the integration of this feedback into choice preference, rather than the rate of the development of choice preference. To quantitatively address this point, we have included the following analysis:

      “To quantitatively examine choice variability during training, we binned sessions 1-5 and 6-10 and analyzed variability in choice patterns across task variants. Analysis of the first five sessions of training revealed a significant shift in decision score across sessions (F(3, 502) = 31.23, p <.0001), which differed between task variants (session x task: F(16, 502) = 2.13, p = .007). Conversely, while significant differences in overall score were observed between task variants in sessions 6-10 (task: F(5, 156) = 6.81, p <.0001), there was no significant variability across sessions (session: F(3, 481) = 2.06, p = .10, task x session: F(15, 481) = 0.78, p = .71). This indicates that the variability in choice preference (and presumably, learning about outcomes) is maximized in the first five sessions, and there are no obvious differences in the rate of development of stable choice patterns between task variants.”

      Does the learning period used for the modeling impact the interpretation of the behavioral results? The authors indicate that computational modeling was done on the first five sessions and used these data to predict preferences at baseline. Based on these results, punishment learning predicts choice preference. However, these animals are not naïve to the contingencies because of the forced choice training prior to the task, which may impact behavior in these early sessions. Though punishment learning may initially predict risk preference, other parameters later in training may also predict behavior at baseline.

      The first five sessions were chosen based on a previously developed method used in Langdon et al. (2019). When choosing the number of sessions to include, there is a balance between including more data points to improve estimation of parameters while also targeting the timeframe of maximal learning. As training continues, the impact of outcomes on subsequent choice should decrease, and the learning rate would trend towards zero. This can be observed in the reduction in inter-session choice variability as training progresses, as demonstrated in the analyses above. Once learning has ceased, presumably other cognitive processes may dictate choice (for example, habitual stimulus-response associations), which would not be appropriately captured by reinforcement learning models. It would be a separate research question to determine the point at which parameters no longer become predictive, requiring a larger dataset to thoroughly assess. We acknowledge that we did not provide sufficient justification for the learning period used for the modeling. In conjunction with the analysis of early sessions outlined above, we have added the following to the text:

      “We investigated differences in the acquisition of each task variant by fitting several reinforcement learning (RL) models to early sessions. Our modeling approach closely follows methods outlined in Langdon et al. (2019), in which a much larger dataset (>100 rats per task) was used to develop the RL models applied here. Due to the comparatively small n per group in the current study, we limited our model selection to those previously validated in Langdon et al. (2019), with minor extensions. As in previous work, models were fit to valid choices from the first five sessions. As training continues, the impact of outcomes on subsequent choice should decline, and parameter values may evolve over time (e.g., decreasing learning rate). To target the period of learning during which outcomes have maximal influence over choice, and parameters likely have fixed values, we limited our analyses to the first five sessions.”

      The authors also present simulated data from the models for sessions 18-20, but according to the statistical analysis section, sessions 35-40 were used for analysis (and presumably presented in Figure 1). If the simulation is carried out in sessions 35-40, do the models fit the data?

      Based on our experience, choice patterns are well instantiated by session 20, and training only continues to 30+ sessions to achieve stability in other task variables (e.g., latencies, premature responding, etc.). That being said, the discrepancy between session numbers is confusing, so we’ve extended the simulations to match the same session numbers that were analyzed in the experimental data.

      Finally, though the n's are small, it would be interesting to see how the devaluation impacts computational metrics. These additional analyses may help to explain the nuanced effects of the cues in the task variants. 

      Unfortunately, as the devaluation experiment is only one session, there are insufficient data to run the same models. Furthermore, changes in choice are subtle and not uniform across rats, making it difficult to reliably model this effect at the individual level. A separate experiment could investigate the specific cognitive processes underlying the devaluation effect.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The authors do not present individual data points for behavior. Including these data points would improve the interpretability of the results. Adding significant notations to the bar graphs would also help the reader. Although the stats are provided and significant comparisons highlighted, it isn't easy to go between the table and the figure to detect significant outcomes. If done, the statistics tables could be moved to the supplement. Including estimates of effect size for main findings in the main text would also benefit the reader. 

      We thank the reviewer for their feedback on our approach to the figures and significance reporting – we have updated the relevant figures to include individual data points. Furthermore, we’ve added significance notations for task variants that are significantly different from the uncued or standard cued tasks on the figures. We’ve also moved some statistics tables to the supplement, as suggested. 

      The authors allude to other metrics of the task (trials, omissions, etc.) but do not present these data anywhere. Including supplementary figures including individual data points and statistical analyses in the supplement is strongly encouraged.

      A supplementary figure visualizing these metrics (choice latency, trials completed, and omissions) has been added, with individual data points included. Statistical analyses are reported in the main text – no significant effect in the ANOVAs were observed for any of these metrics, so post hoc analyses were not performed. 

      Figure 4 is confusing. Presenting the WAIC values for each model rather than compared to the nonlinear model would be easier to understand. It is also unclear if statistical tests were used to assess differences in model fit as no test information is provided.

      Figure 4 has been updated to increase clarity and address feedback from another reviewer. Raw WAIC values are not ideal for visualization, as the task variants have differing amounts of data and thus would be difficult to include on the same Y-axis. Instead, we present each model’s difference in WAIC relative to a basic model with no timeout penalty transform, so that all three models are visible, and the direction of model improvement is clearly indicated. Statistical tests of WAIC differences are not standard, as the numerical differences themselves indicate a better fit.

      The authors do not provide a data availability statement.

      We thank the reviewer for calling our attention to this oversight. A data availability statement has been added. 

      Reviewer 2 (Public review):

      Additional support and evidence are needed for the claims made by the authors. Some of the statements are inconsistent with the data and/or analyses or are only weakly supportive of the claims.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s overarching concern that some claims in the original manuscript were insufficiently supported by the data or analyses. To address this, we have provided further rationale for the devaluation experiment and clarified our interpretation of those results, expanded the computational modeling analyses, and revised figures and wording to improve clarity. Below, we respond to the reviewer’s specific comments in detail.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Different variants of an RL model were used to understand how loss outcomes impacted choice behavior across the gambling task variants. Did the authors try different variants for rewarded outcomes? I wonder whether the loss specific RL effects are constrained to that domain or perhaps emerged because choice behavior to losses was better estimated with the different RL variants. For example, rewarded outcomes across the different choices may not scale linearly (e.g., 1, 2, 3, 4) so including a model in which Rtr is scaled by a free parameter might improve the fit for win choices.

      We agree that asymmetries in model flexibility could, in principle, contribute to the observed effects. While we are somewhat limited in our ability to develop and validate further models due to the small size of the datasets compared to the high degree of choice variability between rats, we have explored the possibility as far as the data allow by fitting a model that includes a scaling parameter for rewards in addition to punishments:

      “While we restricted our model selection to those previously validated on larger datasets, the specificity of the main finding to the punishment learning rate may be due to the greater flexibility afforded to loss scaling, rather than a true asymmetry in learning. To test this hypothesis, we fit a model featuring a scaling parameter for rewards, in addition to scaled costs:

      where mRew is a linear scaling parameter for reward size. A separate scaling parameter was used for timeout penalty duration (i.e., same as scaled cost model). Group-level parameter estimates (Figure S3) reflected similar differences in the punishment learning rate and reward learning rate as the scaled cost model (Figure S4). Furthermore, all 95% HDIs for the mRew scaling parameter included 1, indicating that at least at the group level, scaling of reward size across the P1-P4 options closely follows the actual number of earned sucrose pellets. Thus, we find no evidence that our results can be simply attributed to the increased parameterization of losing outcomes.”

      Additionally, I would like to see evidence that these alternative models provide a better fit compared to a standard delta-rule updating for unrewarded choices.

      Each model is now compared directly to a standard delta-rule update model in the WAIC figure to demonstrate that the current models are a better fit for the data.

      Could the authors provide some visualization of how variation in the r, m, or b parameters impact choices and/or patterns of choices?

      We have added a figure to the supplementary section to visualize how different values for the r, m, and b parameters could alter the size of updates to Q-values on each trial across the four different options, thereby impacting subsequent choice. 

      It was challenging to understand the impact of the reported effects and interpretation of the authors at various points in the manuscript. For example, the authors state that "only rats trained on tasks without win-paired cues exhibited shifts in risk preference following reinforcer devaluation". Figure 3 however seems to indicate that rats trained on the reverse-cued task show shifts in risk preference. 

      We agree the original wording did not fully capture the nuance apparent in the figure. While not significantly different from baseline, rats in the reverse-cued experiment could have indeed updated their choice patterns and we were underpowered to detect the effect. We have updated the results section to include this point, and to more specifically outline that win-paired cues that scale with reward size lead to insensitivity to reinforcer devaluation:

      “This indicates that pairing audiovisual cues with reward induces some degree of inflexibility in risk-preferring rats. Importantly, pairing cues with losses alone does not elicit rigidity in choice. Thus, in keeping with the observed effect on overall choice patterns, pairing cues with wins has a unique impact on sensitivity to reinforcer devaluation. Although not statistically significant, visual inspection of the reverse-cued task suggests that some choice flexibility may be present, and the study may be underpowered to detect this effect. Nonetheless, win-paired cues that scale with reward size reduce flexibility in choice patterns following reinforcer devaluation.”

      It was not clear to me why the authors did a devaluation test and what was expected. Adding details regarding the motivation for specific analyses and/or experiments would improve understanding of these exciting results.

      Further explanation has been added to the results section for the devaluation test to clarify the rationale and expected results:

      “We next tested whether pairing salient audiovisual cues with outcomes on the rGT impacts flexibility in decision making when outcome values are updated. Reinforcer devaluation, in which subjects are sated on the sugar pellet reinforcer prior to task performance (presumably devaluing the outcome), is a common test of flexibility of decision making (Adams & Dickinson, 1981). We have previously employed this method to demonstrate that rats trained on the standard-cued task are insensitive to reinforcer devaluation (i.e., choice patterns do not shift despite devaluation of the sugar pellet reward; Hathaway et al., 2021).”

      Some rats in the rGT become risk takers and some do not, but whether this is an innate phenomenon or emerges with training is not known. The authors report some correlations between the RL parameters and subsequent risk scores but this may be an artifact because the risk scores and many of the parameters differ between the experimental groups. Restricting these analyses to the rats in the standard procedure (or even conducting it in other rats that have been run in the rGT standard task) would alleviate this concern. The authors should also expand upon this result in the discussion. (if it holds up) and provide graphs of this relationship in the manuscript.

      In a previous paper on which these analyses were based (Langdon et al., 2019), analyses of the relationship between RL parameter estimates and final decision score were conducted separately for rats trained on either the uncued or standard cued task, as the reviewer has suggested here. Those analyses showed that parameters controlling the learning from negative outcomes were specifically related to final score in both tasks. While we don’t have the appropriate n per group to split the analyses by task variant in the current study, we have highlighted these previous findings in the results section to address this concern:

      “In Langdon et al. (2019), analyses were conducted to test whether parameters controlling sensitivity to punishment predicted final decision score at the end of training in the uncued and standard cued task variants. These analyses showed that across both task variants, there was evidence of reduced punishment sensitivity (i.e., lower m parameter or punishment learning rate) in risky versus optimal rats. We conducted similar analyses here to examine whether parameter estimates covary with decision score at end of training. To accomplish this, we fit simple linear regression models for each parameter and assessed whether the slopes were significantly different from zero.”

      I don't see a b parameter in the nonlinear cost model, but is presented in Figure 6 and also in the "Parameters predicting risk preference on the rGT". The authors either need to update the formula or clarify what the b parameter quantifies in the nonlinear model.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out this oversight; the equation has been updated to include the b parameter.

      The risk score is very confusing as high numbers or % indicate less risk and lower (more negative numbers) indicate greater risk. I've had to reread the text multiple times to remind myself of this, so I anticipate the same will be true for other readers. Perhaps the authors can add a visual guide to their y-axis indicating more positive numbers are less risky choices.

      We acknowledge that this measure can be confusing – the calculation of this score is standard for the Iowa Gambling Task conducted in humans, on which the rGT is based, and was therefore adopted here. We’ve changed the name from “risk score” to “decision score”, along with including a visual guide to the y-axis in Figure 2, to address this point.

      Negative learning rate is confusing as it almost implies that the learning was a negative value, rather than being a learning rate for negative outcomes. Please revise in the figures and in the text.

      We have updated the text and figures where appropriate from “negative learning rate” to “punishment learning rate”. We have also changed the text from “positive learning rate” to “reward learning rate” to match this terminology.

      Reviewer 3 (Public review):

      There is a very problematic statistical stratagem that involves categorising individuals as either risky or optimal based on their choice probabilities. As a measurement or outcome, this is fine, as previously highlighted in the results, but this label is then used as a factor in different ANOVAs to analyse the very same choice probabilities, which then constitutes a circular argument (individuals categorised as risky because they make more risky choices, make more risky choices...).

      Risk status was included as a factor to test whether the effects of the cue paradigms differed between risky versus optimal rats (i.e., interaction effects), not as an independent predictor of choice preference. We focus on results showing a significant task x risk status interaction, and conducted follow-up analyses separately within each group, at which point risk status was no longer included as a factor. We do not interpret main effects or choice x status interactions, which would indeed be circular for the reason noted by the reviewer.

      A second experiment was done to study the effect of devaluation on risky choices in the different tasks. The results, which are not very clear to understand from Figure 3, would suggest that reward devaluation affects choices in tasks where the win-cue pairing is not present. The authors interpret this result by saying that pairing wins with cues makes the individuals insensitive to reward devaluation. Counter this, if an individual is prone to making risky choices in a given task, this points to an already distorted sense of value as the most rewarding strategy is to make optimal non-risky choices.

      We have included significance notations in Figure 3 and included further detail in the text to improve clarity of the findings for the devaluation test. The reviewer raises an interesting point that risk-preferring rats have a distorted sense of value, since they do not follow the optimal strategy. However, we believe that this is at least partially separable from insensitivity to devaluation, since risk-preferring rats trained on tasks that don’t feature win-paired cues still exhibit flexibility in choice. We have added the following point to the discussion to address this:

      “While risk-preferring rats exhibit some degree of distortion in reward valuation, as they do not follow the most rewarding strategy (i.e., selecting optimal options), we believe this to be at least partially separable from choice inflexibility, as risk-preferring rats on tasks that don’t feature win-paired cues remain sensitive to devaluation.”

      While the overall computational approach is excellent, I believe that the choice of computational models is poor. Loss trials come at a double cost, something the authors might want to elaborate more upon, firstly the lost opportunity of not having selected a winning option which is reflected in Q-learning by the fact that r=0, and secondly a waiting period which will affect the overall reward rate. The authors choose to combine these costs by attempting to convert the time penalty into "reward currency" using three different functions that make up the three different tested models. This is a bit of a wasted opportunity as the question when comparing models is not something like "are individuals in the paired win-cue tasks more sensitive to risk? or less sensitive to time? etc" but "what is the best way of converting time into Q-value currency to fit the data?" Instead, the authors could have contrasted other models that explicitly track time as a separate variable (see for example "Impulsivity and risk-seeking as Bayesian inference under dopaminergic control" (Mikhael & Gershman 2021)) or give actions an extra risk bonus (as in "Nicotinic receptors in the VTA promote uncertainty seeking" (Naude et al 2016)).

      We thank the reviewer for their thoughtful suggestions and agree that alternative modeling frameworks that explicitly track time or incorporate uncertainty bonuses would be highly informative for understanding the mechanisms underlying risky choice. However, the models employed here are drawn from previous work that required >100 rats per group for model development and validation. Due to the high degree of variability in decision making within the groups and the relatively small number of rats, this dataset is not well suited for substantial model innovation. Indeed, the most complex model from previous work had to be simplified to achieve model convergence. Testing models that greatly diverge from the previously validated RL models would make it difficult to determine whether poor model fit reflects a misspecified model or insufficient data.

      We’d also like to note that the driving question for this study is to investigate the impact of different cue variants on choice patterns – untangling the relationship between timing, uncertainty, and risky choice is an important and interesting question, but beyond the scope of the present work. 

      To address this limitation, we have expanded our justification of model choice in the results section to emphasize that we are applying previously developed models, with minor extensions:

      “We investigated differences in the acquisition of each task variant by fitting several reinforcement learning (RL) models to early sessions. Our modeling approach closely follows methods outlined in Langdon et al. (2019), in which a much larger dataset (>100 rats per task) was used to develop the RL models applied here. Due to the comparatively small n per group in the current study, we limited our model selection to those previously validated in Langdon et al. (2019), with minor extensions.”

      Another weakness of the computational section is the fact, that despite simulations having been made, figure 5 only shows the simulated risk scores and not the different choice probabilities which would be a much more interesting metric by which to judge model validity. 

      We have expanded Figure 5 to show the simulated choice of each option.

      In the last section, the authors ask whether the parameter estimates (obtained from optimisation on the early sessions) could be used to predict risk preference. While this is an interesting question to address, the authors give very little explanation as to how they establish any predictive relationship. A figure and more detailed explanation would have been warranted to support their claims.

      We have expanded this section to provide clearer detail on the methods used to conduct this analysis and added a figure. To address a point raised by another reviewer, the statistical approach has been revised to more closely align with that used in Langdon et al. (2019), and the results have been updated appropriately:

      “We next tested whether any of the subject-level parameter estimates in the nonlinear or scaled + offset model could reliably predict risk preference scores at the end of training. In Langdon et al. (2019), analyses were conducted to test whether parameters controlling sensitivity to punishment predicted final decision score at the end of training in the uncued and standard cued task variants. These analyses showed that across both task variants, there was evidence of reduced punishment sensitivity (i.e., lower m parameter or punishment learning rate) in risky versus optimal rats. We conducted similar analyses here to examine whether parameter estimates covary with decision score at end of training. To accomplish this, we fit simple linear regression models for each parameter and assessed whether the slopes were significantly different from zero.”

      Why were the simulated risk scores calculated for sessions 18-20 and not 35-39 as in the experimental data, and why were the models optimised only on the first sessions?

      These points were addressed in response to reviewer #1:

      Based on our experience, choice patterns are well instantiated by session 20, and training only continues to 30+ sessions to achieve stability in other task variables (e.g., latencies, premature responding, etc.). That being said, the discrepancy between session numbers is confusing, so we’ve extended the simulations to match the same session numbers that were analyzed in the experimental data.

      The first five sessions were chosen based on a previously developed method used in Langdon et al. (2019). When choosing the number of sessions to include, there is a balance between including more data points to improve estimation of parameters while also targeting the timeframe of maximal learning. As training continues, the impact of outcomes on subsequent choice should decrease, and the learning rate would trend towards zero. This can be observed in the reduction in inter-session choice variability as training progresses, as demonstrated in the analyses above. Once learning has ceased, presumably other cognitive processes may dictate choice (for example, habitual stimulus-response associations), which would not be appropriately captured by reinforcement learning models. It would be a separate research question to determine the point at which parameters no longer become predictive, requiring a larger dataset to thoroughly assess. We acknowledge that we did not provide sufficient justification for the learning period used for the modeling. In conjunction with the analysis of early sessions outlined above, we have added the following to the text:

      “We investigated differences in the acquisition of each task variant by fitting several reinforcement learning (RL) models to early sessions. Our modeling approach closely follows methods outlined in Langdon et al. (2019), in which a much larger dataset (>100 rats per task) was used to develop the RL models applied here. Due to the comparatively small n per group in the current study, we limited our model selection to those previously validated in Langdon et al. (2019), with minor extensions. As in previous work, models were fit to valid choices from the first five sessions. As training continues, the impact of outcomes on subsequent choice should decline, and parameter values may evolve over time (e.g., decreasing learning rate). To target the period of learning during which outcomes have maximal influence over choice, and parameters likely have fixed values, we limited our analyses to the first five sessions.”

      Concerning the figures, could you consider replacing or including with the bar plots, the full distribution of individual dots, or a violin plot, something to better capture the distribution of the data. This would be particularly beneficial for Figure 2B the risk score which, without a distribution suggests all individuals are optimal, something which in the text claim is not the case. 

      Individual data points have been added to the relevant figures.

      Is this not a case of compositional data where ANOVA is definitely not an appropriate method (compositional data consist in reporting proportions of different elements in a whole, eg this rock is 60% silicate, 20% man-made cement, etc.) because of violation of normality and mostly dependence between measurements (the sum must be 100% as in your case where knowing the proportions of P1, P2 and P3, I automatically deduce P4). I leave to you the care of finding a potential alternative. In any case, I also had difficulties understanding the varying degrees of freedom of the different reported F statistics which worry me that this has not been done properly.

      This is a fair criticism, as choice proportions across P1-P4 are not fully independent. While alternative approaches do exist, there is no widely adopted or straightforward method that has been validated for this task. Accordingly, ANOVA remains the standard analytical approach for this task, as it facilitates comparison with previous work and is readily understood by readers. As mentioned in the methods, an arcsine transformation was applied to the proportional data to mitigate issues associated with bounded measures (i.e., summing to 100%). We thank the reviewer for drawing our attention to the discrepancies in the degrees of freedom – these have now been corrected.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      eLife Assessment

      This study provides a useful analysis of the changes in chromatin organization and gene expression that occur during the differentiation of two cell types (anterior endoderm and prechordal plate) from a common progenitor in zebrafish. Although the findings are consistent with previous work, the evidence presented in the study appears to be incomplete and would benefit from more rigorous interpretation of single-cell data, more in-depth lineage tracing, overexpression experiments with physiological levels of Ripply, and a clearer justification for using an explant system. With these modifications, this paper will be of interest to zebrafish developmental biologists investigating mechanisms underlying differentiation.

      We sincerely thank the editor and the reviewers for their valuable time and efforts. Their insightful comments were greatly appreciated and have been largely addressed in the revised manuscript. We are confident that these revisions have enhanced the overall quality and clarity of our paper.

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      During vertebrate gastrulation, mesendoderm cells are initially specified by morphogens (e.g. Nodal) and segregate into endoderm and mesoderm in part based on Nodal concentrations. Using zebrafish genetics, live imaging, and single-cell multi-omics, the manuscript by Cheng et al presents evidence to support a claim that anterior endoderm progenitors derive primarily from prechordal plate progenitors, with transcriptional regulators goosecoid (Gsc) and ripply1 playing key roles in this cell fate determination. Such a finding would represent a significant advance in our understanding of how anterior endoderm is specified in vertebrate embryos.

      We would like to thank reviewer #1 for his/her comments and positive feedbacks about our manuscript.

      Strengths:

      Live imaging-based tracking of PP and endo reporters (Figure 2) is well executed and convincing, though a larger number of individual cell tracks will be needed. Currently, only a single cell track (n=1) is provided.

      We thank the reviewer for the positive comments and the valuable suggestion. As the reviewer suggested, we re-performed live imaging analyses on the embryos of Tg(gsc:EGFP;sox17:DsRed). We tracked dozens of cells during their transformation from gsc-positive to sox17-positive. Furthermore, we performed quantification of the RFP/GFP signal intensity ratio in these cells over the course of development (Please see the revised Figure 2D and MovieS4).

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The central claim of the paper - that the anterior endoderm progenitors arise directly from prechordal plate progenitors - is not adequately supported by the evidence presented. This is a claim about cell lineage, which the authors are attempting to support with data from single-cell profiling and genetic manipulations in embryos and explants. The construction of gene expression (pseudo-time) trajectories, while a modern and powerful approach for hypothesis generation, should not be used as a substitute for bona fide lineage tracing methods. If the authors' central hypothesis is correct, a CRE-based lineage tracing experiment (e.g. driving CRE using a PP marker such as Gsc) should be able to label PP progenitor cells that ultimately contribute to anterior endoderm-derived tissues. Such an experiment would also allow the authors to quantify the relative contribution of PP (vs non-PP) cells to the anterior endoderm, which is not possible to estimate from the indirect data currently provided. Note: while the present version of the manuscript does describe a sox17:CRE lineage tracing experiment, this actually goes in the opposite direction that would be informative (sox:17:CRE-marked descendants will be a mixture of PP-derived and non-PP derived cells, and the Gsc-based reporter does not allow for long-term tracking the fates of these cells).

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for the professional comments and the constructive suggestions. As the reviewer indicated, utilizing the single-cell transcriptomic trajectory analyses on zebrafish embryos and Nodal-injected explants system, along with the live imaging analyses on Tg(gsc:EGFP;sox17:DsRed) embryos, we revealed that anterior endoderm progenitors arise from prechordal plate progenitors. To further verify this observation, we conducted two sets of lineage-tracing assays. Initial evidence came from the results of co-injecting sox17:Cre and gsc:loxp-STOP-loxp-mcherry plasmids. We observed RFP-positive cells at 8 hpf, demonstrating the presence of cells that had expressed both genes. To explicitly follow the proposed lineage, we then implemented a reciprocal strategy, as suggested by the reviewer, that constructed and co-injected sox17:loxp-STOP-loxp-mcherry and gsc:Cre plasmids. The appearance of RFP-positive cells in the anterior dorsal region at 8 hpf provides direct evidence for a transition from gsc-positive to sox17-positive identity. These results are now included in the revised manuscript (Please see Author response image 1 and Figure S4E). However, in accordance with the reviewer's caution, we acknowledge that this does not prove this is the sole origin of anterior endoderm. Consequently, we have revised the text to clarify that our findings demonstrate that anterior endoderm can be specified from prechordal plate progenitors, without claiming that it is the only source.

      Author response image 1.

      Characterization of anterior endoderm lineage by Cre-Lox recombination system.

      (2) The authors' descriptions of gene expression patterns in the single-cell trajectory analyses do not always match the data. For example, it is stated that goosecoid expression marks progenitor cells that exist prior to a PP vs endo fate bifurcation (e.g. lines 124-130). Yet, in Figure 1C it appears that in fact goosecoid expression largely does not precede (but actually follows) the split and is predominantly expressed in cells that have already been specified into the PP branch. Likewise, most of the cells in the endo branch (or prior) appear to never express Gsc. While these trends do indeed appear to be more muddled in the explant data (Figure 1H), it still seems quite far-fetched to claim that Gsc expression is a hallmark of endoderm-PP progenitors.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out this issue. Our initial analysis proposed that the precursors of the prechordal plate (PP) and anterior endoderm (endo) more closely resemble a PP cell fate, as their progenitor populations highly express PP marker genes, such as gsc. The gsc gene is widely recognized as a PP marker[1]. The reviewer pointed out that in our analysis, these precursor cells do not initially exhibit high gsc expression; rather, gsc expression gradually increases as PP fate is specified.

      The reason for this observation is as follows: First, for the in vivo data, we used the URD algorithm to trace back all possible progenitor cells for both the PP and anterior endo trajectory. As mentioned in the manuscript, the PP and anterior endo are relatively distant in the trajectory tree of the zebrafish embryonic data. Consequently, this approach likely included other, confounding progenitor cells that do not express gsc (like ventral epiblast, Author response image 2). However, we further investigated the expression of gsc and sox17 along these two trajectories. The conclusion remains that gsc expression is indeed higher than sox17 in the progenitor cells common to both trajectories (Author response image 2). Combined with the live imaging analysis presented in this study, which shows that gsc expression increases progressively in the PP, this supports the notion that the progenitor cells for both PP and anterior endoderm initially bias towards a PP cell fate.

      On the other hand, in our previously published work using the Nodal-injected explant system, which specifically induces anterior endo and PP, the cellular trajectory analysis also revealed that the specifications of PP and anterior endo follow very similar paths. Therefore, we proceeded to analyze the Nodal explant data. Similarly, when using URD to trace the differentiation trajectories of PP and anterior endo cells, a small number of other progenitor cells were also captured. This explains why a minority of cells do not express gsc—these are likely ventral epiblast cells (Author response image 2). However, based on the Nodal explant data, gsc is specifically highly expressed in the progenitor cells of the PP and anterior endo. Its expression remains high in the PP trajectory but gradually decreases in the endoderm trajectory (Figure 1H).

      Author response image 2.

      (A) The expression of ventral epiblast markers in PP and anterior Endo URD trajectory. (B) The expression of gsc, sox32 and sox17 in the progenitors of PP and anterior endo in embryos and Nodal explants.

      (3) The study seems to refer to "endoderm" and "anterior endoderm" somewhat interchangeably, and this is potentially problematic. Most single-cell-based analyses appearing in the study rely on global endoderm markers (sox17, sox32) which are expressed in endodermal precursors along the entire ventrolateral margin. Some of these cells are adjacent to the prechordal plate on the dorsal side of the gastrula, but many (most in fact) are quite some distance away. The microscopy-based evidence presented in Figure 2 and elsewhere, however, focuses on a small number of sox17-expressing cells that are directly adjacent to, or intermingled with, the prechordal plate. It, therefore, seems problematic for the authors to generalize potential overlaps with the PP lineage to the entire endoderm, which includes cells in ventral locations. It would be helpful if the authors could search for additional markers that might stratify and/or mark the anterior endoderm and perform their trajectory analysis specifically on these cells.

      We thank the reviewer for these comments and suggestions. We fully agree with the reviewer's point that the expression of sox32 and sox17 cannot be used to distinguish dorsal endoderm from ventral-lateral endoderm cells. However, during the gastrulation stage, all endodermal cells express sox32 and sox17, and there are currently no specific marker genes available to distinguish between them.

      After gastrulation ends, the dorsal endoderm (i.e., the anterior endoderm) begins to express pharyngeal endoderm marker genes, such as pax1b. Therefore, in the analysis of embryonic data in vivo, when studying the segregation of the anterior endoderm and PP trajectory, we specifically used the pharyngeal endoderm as the subject to trace its developmental trajectory.

      In the case of Nodal explants, Nodal specifically induces the fate of the dorsal mesendoderm, which includes both the PP and pharyngeal endoderm (anterior endoderm). Precisely for this reason, we consider the Nodal explant system as a highly suitable model for investigating the mechanisms underlying the cell fate separation between anterior endoderm and PP. Thus, in the Nodal explant data, we included all endodermal cells for downstream analysis.

      To avoid any potential confusion for readers, we have revised the term "endoderm" in the manuscript to "anterior endoderm" as suggested by the reviewer.

      (4) It is not clear that the use of the nodal explant system is allowing for rigorous assessment of endoderm specification. Why are the numbers of endoderm cells so vanishingly few in the nodal explant experiments (Figure 1H, 3H), especially when compared to the embryo itself (e.g. Figures 1C-D)? It seems difficult to perform a rigorous analysis of endoderm specification using this particular model which seems inherently more biased towards PP vs. endoderm than the embryo itself. Why not simply perform nodal pathway manipulations in embryos?

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for raising this important question. In our study of the fate separation between the PP and anterior endoderm, we initially analyzed zebrafish embryonic data. However, when reconstructing the transcriptional lineage tree using URD, we observed that these two cell trajectories were positioned relatively far apart on the tree. Yet, existing studies have shown that the anterior endoderm and PP are not only spatially adjacent but also both originate from mesendodermal progenitor cells[2-4], and they share transcriptional similarities[5]. Therefore, as the reviewer pointed out, when tracing all progenitor cells of these two trajectories using the URD algorithm, it is easy to include other cell types, such as ventral epiblast cells (Author response image 2). For this reason, we concluded that directly using embryonic data to dissect the mechanism of fate separation between PP and anterior endoderm might not yield highly accurate results.

      In contrast, our group’s previous work, published in Cell Reports, demonstrated that the Nodal-induced explant system specifically enriches dorsal mesendodermal cells, including anterior endoderm, PP, and notochord[5]. Thus, we considered the Nodal explant system to be a highly suitable model for investigating the mechanism of fate separation between PP and anterior endoderm. Ultimately, by analyzing both in vivo embryonic data and Nodal explant data, we consistently found that the anterior endoderm likely originates from PP progenitor cells—a conclusion further validated by live imaging experiments.

      Regarding the reviewer’s concern about the relatively low number of endodermal cells in the Nodal explant system, we speculate that this is because the explants predominantly induce anterior endoderm. Since endodermal cells constitute only a small proportion of cells during gastrulation, and anterior endoderm represents an even smaller subset, the absolute number is naturally limited. Nevertheless, the anterior endodermal cells captured in our Nodal explants were sufficient to support our analysis of the fate separation mechanism between anterior endoderm and PP. Finally, to further strengthen the findings from scRNA-seq analyses, we subsequently performed live imaging validation experiments using both zebrafish embryos and the explant system.

      (5) The authors should not claim that proximity in UMAP space is an indication of transcriptional similarity (lines 207-208), especially for well-separated clusters. This is a serious misrepresentation of the proper usage of the UMAP algorithm. The authors make a similar claim later on (lines 272-274).

      We would like to extend our gratitude to the reviewer for their insightful comments. We have revised the descriptions regarding UMAP throughout the manuscript as suggested (Please see the main text in revised manuscript).

      Reviewer # 1 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      - Pseudotime trajectories constructed from single-cell snapshots are not true "lineage" measurements. Authors should refrain from referring to such data as lineage data (e.g. lines 99, 100, 103, 109, 112, 127, etc). Such models should be referred to as "trajectories", "hypothetical lineages", or something else.

      We are grateful to the reviewer for this comment. Following their recommendation, we have revised the terminology from "transcriptional lineage tree" to "trajectory" across the entire manuscript (Please see main text in revised manuscript).

      - The live imaging data presented in Figure 2 (and supplemental figures) are compelling and do seem to show that some cells can switch between PP and endo states. However, the number of cells reported is still too low to be able to ascertain whether or not this is just a rare/edge-case phenomenon. Tracks for just a single cell are reported in Figure 2C-D. This is insufficient. Tracks for many more cells should be collected and reported alongside this current sole (n=1) example. The choice of time window for these live imaging experiments should also be better explained. These live imaging experiments are being performed at or after 6hpf, but authors claim in the text that "... the segregation between PP and Endo has already occurred by 6hpf." (lines 126-127). Why not perform these live imaging experiments earlier, when the initial fate decision between PP and endo is supposedly occurring?

      We sincerely appreciate the reviewer’s insightful questions and constructive feedback. In response, we have made several important revisions. First, the reviewer noted that our original manuscript tracked only a single cell and suggested increasing the number of tracked cells. Following this recommendation, we repeated the live-imaging experiments and expanded the number of tracked endodermal cells (Please see the revised Movie S4 and Figure 2D). The experimental conditions were kept identical to the previous setup, and these cells consistently exhibited a gradual transition from a gsc+ fate to a sox17+ endodermal fate. In addition, the reviewer recommended performing live imaging at an earlier time point (Movie S5). Accordingly, we conducted additional experiments initiating live imaging at around 5.7 hours and observed the onset of a sox17 expression in gsc+ cells at approximately 6 hpf, which is consistent with our single-cell transcriptomic analysis.

      - The sections devoted to lengthy descriptions of GO terms (lines 131-146, 239-254) and receptor-ligand predictions (lines 170-185) are largely speculative. Consider streamlining.

      Thanks for the reviewer's comment. We have streamlined the content related to the GO analysis as suggested (Please see Lines 128-132, 157-167, 221-225).

      - The use of a "Nodal Activity Score" (lines 212-226) is clever but might actually be less informative than showing contributions from individual nodal target genes. The combining of counts data from 29 predicted nodal targets means that the contribution (or lack of contribution) from each gene becomes masked. The authors should include supplementary dot plots that break down the score across all 29 genes, allowing the reader to assess overall contributions and/or sub-clusters of gene co-expression patterns, if present.

      Thank you very much for the reviewer's positive feedback on our use of the "Nodal Activity Score" and the valuable suggestions provided. Following the recommendation, we analyzed the expression of the 29 Nodal direct targets used in our study across the WT, ndr1 knockdown (kd), and lft1 knockout (ko) groups. We found that the known axial mesoderm genes, such as chrd, tbxta, noto, and gsc, contributed significantly to the Nodal score. The newly conducted analysis has been included in the Supplementary Information (Please see Figure S7L).

      - The differential expression trends being reported for srcap (line 251) do not appear to be significant. Are details and P-values for these DEG tests reported somewhere in the manuscript?

      We thank the reviewer for raising this question. Based on the reviewer's comment, we performed statistical tests (Wilcoxon test) to compare the expression of srcap in PP and Endo. Our analysis revealed that while srcap expression is slightly higher in PP than in Endo, this difference is not statistically significant. The specific p-value and fold change have been indicated in the revised figure (Please see Figure 4J and S7H). Based on this analysis, we revised our description to state that srcap expression is slightly higher in the PP compared to in the anterior endoderm.

      - Following the drug experiments with the drug AU15330 (lines 254-263), authors have only reported #s of endodermal cells, which seem to have increased, which the authors suggest indicates a fate switch from PP to endo. However, the authors have not reported whether the numbers of PP cells decreased or stayed the same in these embryos. This would be helpful information to include, as it is very difficult to discern quantitative trends from the images presented in Fig 4H and 4L.

      Thank the reviewer for his/her comments and suggestions. Following the reviewer's suggestions, we performed Imaris analysis on the HCR staining results from the DMSO (control), 1μM AU15330-treated, and 5μM AU15330-treated groups. Our analysis focused on the number of frzb-positive cells (PP), and the comparison revealed that treatment with AU15330 significantly reduces the PP cell number. These findings have been incorporated into the revised manuscript and supplementary information (Please see Figures S7J and S7K).

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      During vertebrate gastrulation, the mesoderm and endoderm arise from a common population of precursor cells and are specified by similar signaling events, raising questions as to how these two germ layers are distinguished. Here, Cheng and colleagues use zebrafish gastrulation as a model for mesoderm and endoderm segregation. By reanalyzing published single-cell sequencing data, they identify a common progenitor population for the anterior endoderm and the mesodermal prechordal plate (PP). They find that expression levels of PP genes Gsc and ripply are among the earliest differences between these populations and that their increased expression suppresses the expression of endoderm markers. Further analysis of chromatin accessibility and Ripply cut-and-tag is consistent with direct repression of endoderm by this PP marker. This study demonstrates the roles of Gsc and Ripply in suppressing anterior endoderm fate, but this role for Gsc was already known and the effect of Ripply is limited to a small population of anterior endoderm. The manuscript also focuses extensively on the function of Nodal in specifying and patterning the mesoderm and endoderm, a role that is already well known and to which the current analysis adds little new insight.

      We would like to thank the reviewer #2 for the constructive comments and positive feedback regarding our manuscript.

      Strengths:

      Integrated single-cell ATAC- and RNA-seq convincingly demonstrate changes in chromatin accessibility that may underlie the segregation of mesoderm and endoderm lineages, including Gsc and ripply. Identification of Ripply-occupied genomic regions augments this analysis. The genetic mutants for both genes provide strong evidence for their function in anterior mesendoderm development, although these phenotypes are subtle.

      We thank the reviewer for recognizing our work, and we greatly appreciate the constructive suggestions from the reviewer.

      Weaknesses:

      The use of zebrafish embryonic explants for cell fate trajectory analysis (rather than intact embryos) is not justified. In both transcriptomic comparisons between the two fate trajectories of interest and Ripply cut-and-tag analysis, the authors rely too heavily on gene ontology which adds little to our functional understanding. Much of the work is focused on the role of Nodal in the mesoderm/endoderm fate decision, but the results largely confirm previous studies and again provide few new insights. Some experiments were designed to test the relationship between the mesoderm and endoderm lineages and the role of epigenetic regulators therein, but these experiments were not properly controlled and therefore difficult to interpret.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for the comments. As we previously answered, in our study of the fate differentiation between the PP and the anterior endoderm, we initially analyzed zebrafish embryonic data. However, when we used URD to reconstruct the transcriptional trajectory tree, we found that these two cell trajectories were distantly located on the tree. Existing studies have shown that the anterior endoderm and the PP are not only spatially adjacent but also both originate from mesendodermal progenitor cells and share transcriptional similarities[2-4]. Therefore, when tracing all progenitor cells of these two trajectories using the URD algorithm, it is easy to include other cell types, such as ventral mesendodermal cells (Please see Author response image 2A). Based on this, we believe that directly using embryonic data to decipher the mechanism of fate differentiation between the PP and the anterior endoderm may not yield sufficiently precise results. In contrast, our group’s previous study published in Cell Reports demonstrated that the Nodal-induced explant system can specifically enrich dorsal mesendodermal cells, including the anterior endoderm, PP, and notochord[5]. Thus, we consider the Nodal explant system as an ideal model for studying the fate differentiation mechanism between the PP and the anterior endoderm. Ultimately, through comprehensive analysis of in vivo embryonic data and Nodal explant data, we consistently found that the anterior endoderm likely originates from PP progenitor cells—a conclusion further validated by live imaging experiments.

      Regarding the GO analysis, we have streamlined it as suggested by the reviewers. In the revised manuscript, we analyzed the expression of specific genes contributing to key GO functions. Additionally, in the revised version, we conducted more live imaging experiments and quantitative cell assays. We designed gRNA for srcap using the CRISPR CAS13 system to knock down srcap, which further corroborated the morpholino knockdown results, showing consistency with the morpholino data. We also performed Western blot validation of the SWI/SNF complex's response to the drug AU15330, confirming the drug's effectiveness. We hope these additional experiments adequately address the reviewers' concerns.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      (1) In the introduction, the authors state that mesendoderm segregates into mesoderm and endoderm in a Nodal-concentration dependent manner. While it is true that higher Nodal signaling levels are required for endoderm specification, A) this is also true for some mesoderm populations, and B) Work from Caroline Hill's lab has shown that Nodal activity alone is not determinative of endoderm fate. Although the authors cite this work, it is conclusions are not reflected in this over-simplified explanation of mesendoderm development. The authors also state that it is not clear when PP and endoderm can be distinguished transcriptionally, but this was also addressed in Economou et al, 2022, which found that they can be distinguished at 60% epiboly but not 50% epiboly.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for raising this question and reminding us of the conclusions drawn from that excellent study. As the reviewer pointed out, Economou et al. demonstrated that Nodal signaling alone is insufficient to determine the cell fate segregation of mesendoderm[6]. However, their study primarily focused on the fate segregation of the ventral-lateral mesendoderm lineage. In contrast, we believe that the mechanisms underlying dorsal mesendoderm specification may differ.

      First, it is well-studied that in zebrafish embryos, the most dorsal mesendoderm is initially specified by the activity of the dorsal organizer. Notably, the Nodal signaling ligands ndr1 and ndr2 begin to be expressed in the dorsal organizer as early as the sphere stage[7]. In our study, through single-cell transcriptomic trajectory analysis and live imaging analysis, we observed that the cell fate segregation of the dorsal mesendoderm can be traced back to the shield stage.

      Second, the regulatory mechanisms governing dorsal mesendoderm fate differentiation may differ from those of the ventral-lateral mesendoderm. For instance, the gsc gene is exclusively expressed in the dorsal mesendoderm and is absent in the ventral-lateral mesendoderm. Given that gsc is a critical master gene, its overexpression in the ventral side can induce a complete secondary body axis. Similarly, ripply1, identified in our study, is also expressed early and specifically in the dorsal mesendoderm. Overexpression of ripply1 in the ventral side similarly induces a secondary body axis, albeit with the absence of the forebrain[5]. In this study, we found that gsc and ripply1 as the repressor, collectively inhibited dorsal (anterior) endoderm specified from PP progenitors.

      In summary, our study focuses on the regulatory mechanisms of fate segregation in the dorsal (anterior) mesendoderm, which differs from the mechanisms of ventral-lateral mesendoderm lineage segregation reported by Economou et al. We believe that this distinction represents a key novelty of our work.

      (2) As noted in the manuscript, Warga and Nusslein-Volhard determined long ago that PP and anterior endoderm share a common precursor. It is surprising that this close relationship is not apparent from the lineage trees in whole embryos but is apparent in lineage trees from explants. The authors speculate that the resolution of the whole embryo dataset is insufficient to detect this branch point and propose explants as the solution, but it is not clear why the explant dataset is higher resolution and/or more appropriate to address this question.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for their thoughtful comments. As we mentioned previously, our investigation of fate differentiation between the PP and the anterior endoderm initially involved the analysis of zebrafish embryonic data. However, when we used URD to reconstruct the transcriptional trajectory tree, we observed that these two cell trajectories were located far apart. Previous elegant studies, as the reviewer mentioned, have shown that the anterior endoderm and the PP are not only spatially adjacent but also both originate from mesendodermal progenitor cells and share transcriptional similarities[2,3,8]. Consequently, when tracing all progenitor cells of these two trajectories using the URD algorithm, other cell types—such as ventral mesendodermal cells—are easily included. Based on this, we believe that directly using embryonic data to elucidate the mechanism of fate differentiation between the PP and the anterior endoderm may lack sufficient precision.

      In contrast, our group’s previous study published in Cell Reports demonstrated that the Nodal-induced explant system specifically enriches dorsal mesendodermal cells, including the anterior endoderm, PP, and notochord[5]. Therefore, we consider the Nodal explant system as an ideal model for studying the mechanism underlying fate differentiation between the PP and the anterior endoderm. Through comprehensive analyses of both in vivo embryonic and Nodal explant data, we consistently found that the anterior endoderm likely originates from PP progenitor cells—a conclusion further supported by live imaging experiments.

      (3) Much of the analysis of DEGs between the lineages of interest is focused on GO term enrichment. But this logic is circular. The endoderm lineage is defined as such because it expresses endoderm-enriched genes, therefore the finding that the endoderm lineage is enriched for endoderm-related GO terms adds no new insights.

      We thank the reviewer for these comments. As the reviewers suggested, in the revised manuscript, we indicated specific genes associated with key GO terms (Please see Figure 4B). Additionally, we have streamlined the content related to the GO analysis as suggested.

      (4) The authors describe the experiment in Figure S4 as key evidence that Gsc+ cells can give rise to endoderm, but no controls are presented. Only a few cells are shown that express mCherry upon injection of sox17:cre constructs. Is mCherry also expressed in the occasional cell injected with Gsc:lox-stop-lox-mCherry in the absence of cre? Although they report 3 independent replicates, it appears that only 2 individual embryos express mCherry. This very small number is not convincing, especially in the absence of appropriate controls.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this question. Following the reviewer's suggestion, we injected gsc:loxp-stop-loxp-mCherry into zebrafish embryos at the 1-cell stage as a control. After performing at least three independent replicates and analyzing no fewer than 100 embryos, we did not observe any mCherry-positive cells. Additionally, we co-injected gsc:loxp-stop-loxp-mCherry with sox17:cre and increased the sample size. Furthermore, we constructed plasmids of sox17:loxp-stop-loxp-mCherry and gsc:cre, and upon injection at the 1-cell stage, we observed RFP-positive cells at 8 hpf (Please see Author response image 1 and Figure S4E). Together with our live imaging data, these experiments collectively demonstrate that anterior endodermal cells can originate from PP progenitors.

      (5) The authors spend a lot of effort demonstrating that PP and anterior endoderm are Nodal dependent. First, these data (especially Figures 3E and 3I) are not very convincing, as the differences shown are very small or not apparent. Second, this is already well-known and adds nothing to our understanding of mesoderm-endoderm segregation.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for their insightful questions. First, the reviewer mentioned that in the initial version of our manuscript, the effects of ndr1 knockdown and lefty1 knockout on Nodal signaling and cell fate—particularly prechordal plate (PP) and anterior endoderm (endo)—in Nodal-induced explants were not very pronounced. We recognize that the negative feedback mechanism between Nodal and Lefty signaling may explain why Nodal acts as a morphogen, regulating pattern formation through a Turing-like model[9]. Therefore, knocking down a Nodal ligand gene, such as ndr1 in this study, or knocking out a Nodal inhibitor, such as lft1, may only have a subtle impact on Nodal signaling[10].

      Accordingly, in this study, we performed extensive pSmad2 immunofluorescence analysis and observed that although the overall intensity of Nodal activity did not change dramatically, there was a statistically significant difference. Importantly, this subtle variation in Nodal signaling strength is precisely what we intended to capture, since PP and anterior endoderm are highly sensitive to Nodal signaling[11], and even minor differences may bias their fate segregation.

      This leads directly to the reviewer’s second concern. While numerous studies suggest that the strength of Nodal signaling influences mesendodermal fate—with high Nodal promoting endoderm and lower concentrations inducing mesoderm—most of these studies focus on ventral-lateral mesendoderm development[4,6,10]. In contrast, the mechanisms underlying dorsal mesendoderm fate specification differ, which is a key innovation of our study.

      Previous work by Bernard Thisse and colleagues demonstrated that even a slight reduction in Nodal signaling, achieved by overexpressing a Nodal inhibitor, is sufficient to cause defects in the specification of PP and endoderm[11]. This indicates that PP and endoderm require the highest levels of Nodal signaling for proper specification. Moreover, the most dorsal mesendoderm, PP and anterior endoderm are not only spatially adjacent but also share similar transcriptional states, making the regulation of their fate separation particularly challenging to study.

      The Dr. C.P. lab made important contributions to this issue, showing that the duration of Nodal exposure is critical for segregating PP and anterior endoderm fates: prolonged Nodal signaling promotes expression of the transcriptional repressor Gsc, which directly suppresses the key endodermal transcription factor Sox17, thereby inhibiting anterior endoderm specification[3]. They also found that tight junctions among PP cells facilitate Nodal signal propagation[8]. However, their studies revealed that Gsc mutants do not exhibit endodermal phenotypes, suggesting that additional factors or mechanisms regulate PP versus anterior endoderm fate separation[3].

      In our study, we first observed that subtle differences in Nodal concentration may bias the fate choice between PP and anterior endoderm. Given that ndr1 knockdown and lft1 knockout mildly reduce or enhance Nodal signaling, respectively, we reasoned that using these two perturbations in a Nodal-induced explant system combined with single-cell RNA sequencing could generate transcriptomic profiles under slightly reduced and enhanced Nodal signaling. This approach may help identify key decision points and transcriptional differences during PP and anterior endoderm segregation, ultimately uncovering the molecular mechanisms downstream of Nodal that govern their fate separation.

      (6) The authors claim that scrap expression differs between the 2 lineages of interest, but this is not apparent from Figure 4J-K. Experiments testing the role of SWI/SNF and scrap also require additional controls. Can scrap MO phenotypes be rescued by scrap RNA? Is there validation that SWI/SNF components are degraded upon treatment with AU15330?

      We are very grateful for the reviewers' questions. Using single-cell data from zebrafish embryos and Nodal explants, we compared the expression of srcap in the PP and anterior Endo cell populations. We found that srcap expression showed a slight increase in PP compared to anterior Endo, but the difference was not statistically significant (Please see Figure 4J and S7H). Therefore, we modified our description in the revised manuscript. However, we speculate that this slight difference might influence the distinct cell fate specification between PP and anterior endo. In the original version of the manuscript, we reported that either treatment with AU15330, an inhibitor of the SWI/SNF complex, or injection of morpholino targeting srcap—a key component of the SWI/SNF complex—enhanced anterior endo fate while reducing PP cell specification. During this round of revision, we initially attempted to follow the reviewer’s suggestion to co-inject srcap mRNA along with srcap morpholino to rescue the phenotype. However, we found that the length of srcap mRNA exceeds 10,000 bp, and despite multiple attempts, we were unable to successfully obtain the srcap mRNA. Therefore, we were unable to perform the rescue experiment and instead adopted an alternative approach to validate the function of srcap. We aimed to use anthor knockdown approach (CRISPR/Cas system) to determine whether a phenotype similar to that observed with morpholino knockdown could be achieved. Using the CRISPR/Cas13 system, we designed gRNA targeting srcap, knocked down srcap, and examined the cell specification of PP and anterior endo. We found that, consistent with our previous results, knocking down srcap obviously reduced PP cell fate while increasing anterior endo cell fate (Author response image 3). Additionally, the reviewer raised the question of whether the SWI/SNF complex is degraded after AU15330 treatment. Following the reviewer’s suggestion, we attempted to perform Western blot analysis on BRG1, one of the components of the SWI/SNF complex. However, despite multiple attempts, we were unable to achieve successful detection of the BRG1 protein by the antibody in zebrafish. Several studies have reported that knockdown or knockout of brg1 leads to defects in neural crest cell specification in zebrafish[12,13]. Therefore, alternatively, we treated zebrafish embryos at the one-cell stage with 0 μM (DMSO), 1 μM, and 5 μM AU15330, and examined the expression of sox10 and pigment development around 48 h. We found that treatment with 1 μM AU15330 reduced sox10 expression and pigment production, though not significantly, whereas treatment with 5 μM AU15330 significantly disrupted neural crest cell development. Thus, this experiment demonstrates that AU15330 is functional in zebrafish. (Author response image 3).

      Author response image 3.

      (A) Characterization of anterior endoderm and PP cells following CRISPR-Cas13d-mediated srcap knockdown. (B) Validation of srcap mRNA expression by RT‑qPCR following CRISPR‑Cas13d knockdown. (C) RT‑qPCR shows the expression of sox10 after treatment with increasing concentrations of AU15300. (D) Morphology of zebrafish embryos at 48 hpf after treatment with increasing concentrations of AU15300.

      (7) The authors conclude from their chromatin accessibility analysis that variations in Nodal signaling are responsible for expression levels of PP and endoderm genes, but they do not consider the alternative explanation that FGF signaling is playing this role. Such a function for FGF was established by Caroline Hill's lab, and the authors also show in Figure S5G that FGF signaling in enriched between these cell populations.

      Thank you very much for raising this issue. As the reviewer pointed out, Caroline Hill's lab has conducted elegant work demonstrating that FGF signaling plays a crucial role in the separation of ventral-lateral mesendoderm cell fates[4,6]. In contrast, our study primarily focuses on studying the mechanisms underlying the separation of dorsal mesendoderm cell fates. However, our research also reveals that FGF signaling significantly regulates the fate separation of the dorsal mesendoderm, as inhibiting FGF signaling suppresses PP cell specification while promoting anterior Endo fate. In our previously published work, we found that Nodal signaling can directly activate the expression of FGF ligand genes[5]. Therefore, we hypothesize that Nodal signaling, acting as a master regulator, activates various downstream target genes—including FGF—and how FGF signaling regulates the cell fate separation of the dorsal mesendoderm warrants further investigation in our further studies.

      (8) When interpreting the results of their Ripply cut-and-run experiment, the authors again rely heavily on GO term analysis and claim that this supports a role for Ripply as a transcriptional repressor. GO term enrichment does not equal functional analysis. It would be more convincing to intersect DEGs between WT and ripply-/- embryos with Ripply-enriched loci.

      Thanks for raising this important issue and the constructive suggestion. In response to the reviewer's valid concern regarding the GO term analyses from our CUT&Tag data, we implemented a more stringent filtering strategy. We identified peaks enriched in the treatment group and applied differential analysis, selecting genes with a log<sub>2</sub>FoldChange > 3, padj < 0.05, and baseMean > 30 as high-confidence Ripply1 binding targets. A GO enrichment analysis of these genes revealed significant terms related to muscle development, consistent with Ripply1's established role in somite development, thereby validating our approach. We supplemented the related gene list in the revised manuscript. Moreover, within this refined analysis, we found that sox32 met our binding threshold, while sox17 did not. Furthermore, as suggested, we examined mespbb—a known Ripply1-repressed gene—which was present, and gsc, a Nodal target used as a negative control, which was absent. This confirms the specificity of our analysis (Figure 6 and Figure S11). Consequently, our revised analyses support a model in which Ripply1 directly binds the sox32 promoter. Given that Sox32 is a known upstream regulator of sox17, this binding provides a plausible direct mechanism for the observed regulation of sox17 expression. We have updated the figures and text accordingly. We attempted to generate ripply1<sup>-/-</sup> mutants but found that homozygous loss results in embryonic lethality.

      (9) The way N's are reported is unconventional. N= number of embryos used in the experiment, n= number of embryos imaged. If an embryo was not imaged or analyzed in any way, it cannot be considered among the embryos in an experiment. If only 4 embryos were imaged, the N for that experiment is 4 regardless of how many embryos were stained. Authors should also report not only the number of embryos examined but also the number of independent trials performed for all experiments.

      Thank you very much for the reviewer's suggestion. As suggested, we have revised the description regarding the number of embryos and experimental replicates in the figure legends.

      (10) The authors should avoid the use of red-green color schemes in figures to ensure accessibility for color-blind readers.

      Thanks for the suggestions. We have updated the figures in our revised manuscript and adjusted the color schemes to avoid red-green combinations.

      Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      Cheng, Liu, Dong, et al. demonstrate that anterior endoderm cells can arise from prechordal plate progenitors, which is suggested by pseudo time reanalysis of published scRNAseq data, pseudo time analysis of new scRNAseq data generated from Nodal-stimulated explants, live imaging from sox17:DsRed and Gsc:eGFP transgenics, fluorescent in situ hybridization, and a Cre/Lox system. Early fate mapping studies already suggested that progenitors at the dorsal margin give rise to both of these cell types (Warga) and live imaging from the Heisenberg lab (Sako 2016, Barone 2017) also pretty convincingly showed this. However, the data presented for this point are very nice, and the additional experiments in this manuscript, however, further cement this result. Though better demonstrated by previous work (Alexander 1999, Gritsman 1999, Gritsman 2000, Sako 2016, Rogers 2017, others), the manuscript suggests that high Nodal signaling is required for both cell types, and shows preliminary data that suggests that FGF signaling may also be important in their segregation. The manuscript also presents new single-cell RNAseq data from Nodal-stimulated explants with increased (lft1 KO) or decreased (ndr1 KD) Nodal signaling and multi-omic ATAC+scRNAseq data from wild-type 6 hpf embryos but draws relatively few conclusions from these data. Lastly, the manuscript presents data that SWI/SNF remodelers and Ripply1 may be involved in the anterior endoderm - prechordal plate decision, but these data are less convincing. The SWI/SNF remodeler experiments are unconvincing because the demonstration that these factors are differentially expressed or active between the two cell types is weak. The Ripply1 gain-of-function experiments are unconvincing because they are based on incredibly high overexpression of ripply1 (500 pg or 1000 pg) that generates a phenotype that is not in line with previously demonstrated overexpression studies (with phenotypes from 10-20x lower expression). Similarly, the cut-and-tag data seems low quality and like it doesn't support direct binding of ripply1 to these loci.

      In the end, this study provides new details that are likely important in the cell fate decision between the prechordal plate and anterior endoderm; however, it is unclear how Nodal signaling, FGF signaling, and elements of the gene regulatory network (including Gsc, possibly ripply1, and other factors) interact to make the decision. I suggest that this manuscript is of most interest to Nodal signaling or zebrafish germ layer patterning afficionados. While it provides new datasets and observations, it does not weave these into a convincing story to provide a major advance in our understanding of the specification of these cell types.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for their thorough and thoughtful assessment of our work. The reviewer acknowledged several strengths of our study, such as the use of multiple technical approaches to demonstrate that anterior endoderm differentiates from PP progenitor cells, and recognized the value of the newly added single-cell omics data. The reviewer also raised some concerns regarding the initial version of our work, including the SWI/SNF remodeler experiments and the Ripply1 gain-of-function experiment. In the revised manuscript, we have supplemented these parts with additional control experiments to better support our conclusions. We hope that our updated manuscript adequately addresses the points raised by the reviewer.

      Major issues:

      (1) UMAPs: There are several instances in the manuscript where UMAPs are used incorrectly as support for statements about how transcriptionally similar two populations are. UMAP is a stochastic, non-linear projection for visualization - distances in UMAP cannot be used to determine how transcriptionally similar or dissimilar two groups are. In order to make conclusions about how transcriptionally similar two populations are requires performing calculations either in the gene expression space, or in a linear dimensional reduction space (e.g. PCA, keeping in mind that this will only consider the subset of genes used as input into the PCA). Please correct or remove these instances, which include (but are not limited to):

      p.4 107-110

      p.4 112

      p.8 207-208

      p.10 273-275

      We would like to thank the reviewer for raising this question. The descriptions of UMAP have been revised throughout the manuscript in accordance with the reviewer's suggestion (Please see the main text in the revised manuscript).

      (2) Nodal and lefty manipulations: The section "Nodal-Lefty regulatory loop is needed for PP and anterior Endo fate specification" and Figure 3 do not draw any significant conclusions. This section presents a LIANA analysis to determine the signals that might be important between prechordal plate and endoderm, but despite the fact that it suggests that BMP, Nodal, FGF, and Wnt signaling might be important, the manuscript just concludes that Nodal signaling is important. Perhaps this is because the conclusion that Nodal signaling is required for the specification of these cell types has been demonstrated in zebrafish in several other studies with more convincing experiments (Alexander 1999, Gritsman 1999, Gritsman 2000, Rogers 2017, Sako 2016). While FGF has recently been demonstrated to be a key player in the stochastic decision to adopt endodermal fate in lateral endoderm (Economou 2022), the idea that FGF signaling may be a key player in the differentiation of these two cell types has strangely been relegated to the discussion and supplement. Lastly, the manuscript does not make clear the advantage of performing experiments to explore the PP-Endo decision in Nodal-stimulated explants compared to data from intact embryos. What would be learned from this and not from an embryo? Since Nodal signaling stimulates the expression of Wnts and FGFs, these data do not test Nodal signaling independent of the other pathways. It is unclear why this artificial system that has some disadvantages is used since the manuscript does not make clear any advantages that it might have had.

      We sincerely thank the reviewers for their valuable comments. As mentioned in our manuscript, although a substantial number of studies have reported on the mechanisms governing the segregation of mesendoderm fate in zebrafish embryos—including the Dr. Hill laboratory’s work cited by the reviewers, which demonstrated the involvement of FGF signaling in the ventral mesendoderm fate specification—research on the regulatory mechanisms underlying anterior mesendoderm differentiation remains relatively limited. This is largely due to the challenges posed by the close physical proximity and similar transcriptional states of anterior mesendoderm cells, as well as their shared dependence on high levels of Nodal signaling for specification.

      Several studies from the Dr. C.P. Heisenberg’s laboratory have attempted to elucidate the fate segregation between anterior mesendoderm cells, namely the prechordal plate (PP) and anterior endoderm (endo) cells. They found that PP cells are tightly connected, facilitating the propagation of Nodal signaling[8]. Prolonged exposure to Nodal activates the expression of Gsc, which acts as a transcriptional repressor to inhibit sox17 expression, thereby suppressing endodermal fate[3]. However, they also noted that Gsc mutants do not exhibit endoderm developmental defects, suggesting the involvement of additional factors in this process.

      The reviewer inquired about our rationale for using the Nodal-injected explant system. In our investigation of the fate separation between the PP and the anterior endo, we initially analyzed zebrafish embryonic data. Using URD to reconstruct the transcriptional lineage tree, we found that these two cell types were positioned distantly from each other. However, existing literature indicates that the anterior endoderm and PP are not only spatially adjacent but also derive from common mesendodermal progenitors and exhibit transcriptional similarities[2,8]. As the reviewer noted, when tracing all progenitor cells of these two lineages using URD, it is easy to inadvertently include other cell types—such as ventral epiblast cells—which may compromise the accuracy of the analysis. We therefore concluded that directly using embryonic data to dissect the mechanism of fate separation between PP and anterior endoderm might not yield highly precise results.

      By contrast, our group’s earlier study published in Cell Reports demonstrated that the Nodal-induced explant system specifically enriches dorsal mesendodermal cells, including anterior endo, PP, and notochord[5]. This makes the Nodal explant system a highly suitable model for studying the fate separation between PP and anterior endo. Ultimately, by analysing in vivo embryonic data and Nodal explant data, we consistently found that the anterior endoderm likely originates from PP progenitors—a conclusion further supported by live imaging experiments.

      As we answered above, we first used the analyses of single-cell RNA sequencing and live imaging to demonstrate that anterior endoderm can originate from PP progenitor cells. Understanding the mechanism underlying the fate segregation between these two cell populations became a key focus of our research. We began by applying cell communication analysis to our single-cell data to identify signaling pathways that may be involved. This analysis specifically highlighted the Nodal-Lefty signaling pathway. Since Lefty acts as an inhibitor of Nodal signaling, we hypothesized that differences in Nodal signaling strength might regulate the fate of these two cell populations. By overexpressing different concentrations of Nodal mRNA and examining the fates of PP and anterior Endo cells, we confirmed this hypothesis.

      Thus, we propose that even subtle differences in Nodal signaling levels may influence anterior mesendoderm fate decisions. To test this, we generated systems with slightly reduced Nodal signaling (via ndr1 knockdown) and slightly elevated Nodal signaling (via lft1 knockout). Using these models, we precisely captured the critical stage of fate segregation between PP and anterior endo cells and identified a novel transcriptional repressor, Ripply1, which works in concert with Gsc to suppress anterior endoderm differentiation.

      (3) ripply1 mRNA injection phenotype inconsistent with previous literature: The phenotype presented in this manuscript from overexpressing ripply1 mRNA (Fig S11) is inconsistent with previous observations. This study shows a much more dramatic phenotype, suggesting that the overexpression may be to a non-physiological level that makes it difficult to interpret the gain-of-function experiments. For instance, Kawamura et al 2005 perform this experiment but do not trigger loss of head and eye structures or loss of tail structures. Similarly, Kawamura et al 2008 repeat the experiment, triggering a mildly more dramatic shortening of the tail and complete removal of the notochord, but again no disturbance of head structures as displayed here. These previous studies injected 25 - 100 pg of ripply1 mRNA with dramatic phenotypes, whereas this study uses 500 - 1000 pg. The phenotype is so much more dramatic than previously presented that it suggests that the level of ripply1 overexpression is sufficiently high that it may no longer be regulating only its endogenous targets, making the results drawn from ripply1 overexpression difficult to trust.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for raising this question. First, we apologize for not providing a detailed description of the amount of HA-ripply1 mRNA injected in our previous manuscript. We injected 500 pg of HA-ripply1 mRNA at the 1-cell stage and allowed the embryos to develop until 6 hpf for the CUT&Tag experiment. In the supplementary materials, we included a bright-field image of an 18 hpf-embryo injected with HA-ripply1 mRNA, which morphologically exhibited severe developmental abnormalities. The reviewer pointed out that the amount of ripply1 mRNA we injected might be excessive, potentially leading to non-specific gain-of-function effects. The injection dose of 500 pg was determined based on conclusions from our previous study. In that study, injecting 24 pg of ripply1 mRNA into one cell of zebrafish embryos at the 16–32 cell stage was sufficient to induce a secondary axis lacking the forebrain[5]. From this, we estimated that an injection concentration of approximately 500–1000 pg would be appropriate at the 1-cell stage, so that after several rounds of cell division, each cell gained 20-30 pg mRNA at 32 cell stage. Additionally, we conducted supplementary experiments injecting 100 pg, 250 pg, and 500 pg of ripply1 mRNA, and observed 500 pg of ripply1 mRNA led to a dramatic suppression of endoderm formation (Author response image 4).

      Finally, our study focuses on the mechanism of cell fate segregation in the anterior mesendoderm, primarily during gastrulation. The embryos injected with ripply1 mRNA underwent normal gastrulation, and our CUT&Tag experiment was performed at 6 hpf. Therefore, we believe that the amount of ripply1 mRNA injected in this study is appropriate for addressing our research question.

      Author response image 4.

      Different concentrations of ripply1 mRNA were injected into zebrafish embryos at the one-cell stage, with RFP fluorescence labeling sox17-positive cells.

      (4) Ripply1 binding to sox17 and sox32 regulatory regions not convincing: The Cut and Tag data presented in Fig 6J-K does not seem to be high quality and does not seem to provide strong support that Ripply 1 binds to the regulatory regions of these genes. The signal-to-noise ratio is very poor, and the 'binding' near sox17 that is identified seems to be even coverage over a 14 kb region, which is not consistent with site-specific recruitment of this factor, and the 'peaks' highlighted with yellow boxes do not appear to be peaks at all. To me, it seems this probably represents either: (1) overtagmentation of these samples or (2) an overexpression artifact from injection of too high concentration of ripply1-HA mRNA. In general, Cut and Tag is only recommended for histone modifications, and Cut and Run would be recommended for transcriptional regulators like these (see Epicypher's literature). Given this and the previous point about Ripply1 overexpression, I am not convinced that Ripply1 regulates endodermal genes. The existing data could be made somewhat more convincing by showing the tracks for other genes as positive and negative controls, given that Ripply1 has known muscle targets (how does its binding look at those targets in comparison) and there should be a number of Nodal target genes that Ripply1 does not bind to that could be used as negative controls. Overall this experiment doesn't seem to be of high enough quality to drive the conclusion that Ripply1 directly binds near sox17 and sox32 and from the data presented in the manuscript looks as if it failed technically.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for raising this question. We apologize that the binding regions of sox17 marked in our previous analysis were incorrect, and we have made the corresponding revisions in the latest version of the manuscript.

      The reviewer noted that our CUT&Tag data contain considerable noise. To address this, we further refined our data processing: we annotated all peaks enriched in the treatment group and performed differential analysis, selecting genes with log<sub>2</sub>FoldChange > 3, padj < 0.5, and baseMean > 30 as candidate targets of Ripply1 binding. Subsequent GO enrichment analysis of these genes revealed significant enrichment of muscle development-related GO terms, which is consistent with previously reported roles of Ripply1 in regulating somite development. Therefore, we believe our filtering method effectively removes a large number of noise peaks and their associated genes.

      Under these screening criteria, we found that sox32 meets the threshold, while sox17 does not. In addition, following the reviewer’s suggestion, we examined mespbb—a known gene repressed by Ripply1—and gsc, a Nodal target gene, as a negative control.

      Based on these new analyses, we have revised our figures and text accordingly. Our data now support the possibility that Ripply1 may directly bind to the promoter region of sox32. Since sox32 acts as a direct upstream regulator of sox17, this binding could influence sox17 expression (Figure 6 and Figure S11).

      Finally, we would like to note that studies have reported Ripply1 as a transcriptional repressor, which may function by recruiting other co-factors, such as Groucho, to form a complex[14,15]. This might explain why our CUT&Tag data detected Ripply1 binding to a broad set of genes.

      (5) "Cooperatively Gsc and ripply1 regulate": I suggest avoiding the term "cooperative," when describing the relationship between Ripply1 and Gsc regulation of PP and anterior endoderm - it evokes the concept of cooperative gene regulation, which implies that these factors interact with each biochemically in order to bind to the DNA. This is not supported by the data in this manuscript, and is especially confusing since Ripply1 is thought to require cooperative binding with a T-box family transcription factor to direct its binding to the DNA.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for raising this important issue. The reviewer pointed out that the term "Cooperatively" may not be entirely appropriate in the context of our study. In accordance with the reviewer's suggestion, we have replaced "Cooperatively" with "Collectively" in the relevant sections.

      (6) SWI/SNF: The differential expression of srcap doesn't seem very remarkable. The dot plots in the supplement S7H don't help - they seem to show no expression at all in the endoderm, which is clearly a distortion of the data, since from the violin plots it's obviously expressed and the dot-size scale only ranges from ~30-38%. Please add to the figure information about fold-change and p-value for the differential expression. Publicly available scRNAseq databases show scrap is expressed throughout the entire early embryo, suggesting that it would be surprising for it to have differential activity in these two cell types and thereby contribute to their separate specification during development. It seems equally possible that this just mildly influences the level of Nodal or FGF signaling, which would create this effect.

      Thank the Reviewer for this question. As suggested, we performed Wilcoxon tests to compare srcap expression between PP and Endo populations. The analysis shows that while srcap expression is moderately elevated in PP compared to in Endo, this difference is not statistically significant. The corresponding p-value and fold change have now been included in the revised figure (Please see Figure 4J and S7H). Although the transcriptional level of srcap shows no significant difference between PP and anterior endoderm, our subsequent experiments—using AU15330 (an inhibitor of the SWI/SNF complex) and injecting morpholino targeting srcap, a key component of the SWI/SNF complex—demonstrated that its inhibition indeed promotes anterior endoderm fate while reducing PP cell specification. Therefore, we propose that subtle differences in the SWI/SNF complex may regulate the fate specification of PP and anterior endoderm through two mechanisms. First, as mentioned in our study, these chromatin remodelers modulate the expression of master regulators such as Gsc and Ripply1, thereby influencing cell fate decisions. Second, as noted by the reviewer, these chromatin remodelers may affect the interpretation of Nodal signaling, ultimately contributing to the divergence between PP and anterior endoderm fates.

      The multiome data seems like a valuable data set for researchers interested in this stage of zebrafish development. However, the presentation of the data doesn't make many conclusions, aside from identifying an element adjacent to ripply1 whose chromatin is open in prechordal plate cells and not endodermal cells and showing that there are a number of loci with differential accessibility between these cell types. That seems fairly expected since both cell types have several differentially expressed transcriptional regulators (for instance, ripply1 has previously been demonstrated in multiple studies to be specific to the prechordal plate during blastula stages). The manuscript implies that SWI/SNF remodeling by Srcap is responsible for the chromatin accessibility differences between these cell types, but that has not actually been tested. It seems more likely that the differences in chromatin accessibility observed are a result of transcription factors binding downstream of Nodal signaling.

      We thank the reviewer for recognizing the value of our newly generated data. Through integrative analysis of single-cell data from wild-type, ndr1 kd, and lft1 ko groups of Nodal-injected explants at 6 hours post-fertilization (hpf), we identified a critical branching point in the fate segregation of the prechordal plate (PP) and anterior endoderm (Endo), where chromatin remodelers may play a significant role. Based on this finding, we performed single-cell RNA and ATAC sequencing on zebrafish embryos at 6 hpf. Analysis of this multi-omics dataset revealed that transcriptional repressors such as Gsc, Ripply1, and Osr1 exhibit differences in both transcriptional and chromatin accessibility levels between the PP and anterior Endo. Subsequent overexpression and loss-of-function experiments further demonstrated that Gsc and Ripply1 collaboratively suppress endodermal gene expression, thereby inhibiting endodermal cell fate. Previous studies have reported that for the activation of certain Nodal downstream target genes, the pSMAD2 protein of the Nodal signaling pathway recruits chromatin remodelers to facilitate chromatin opening and promote further transcription of target genes[16]. Therefore, our data provide chromatin accessibility profiles for Gsc and Ripply1, offering a valuable resource for future investigations into their pSMAD2 binding sites.

      Minor issues:

      Figure 2 E-F: It's not clear which cells from E are quantitated in F. For instance, the dorsal forerunner cells are likely to behave very differently from other endodermal progenitors in this assay. It would be helpful to indicate which cells are analyzed in Fig F with an outline or other indicator of some kind. Or - if both DFCs and endodermal cells are included in F, to perhaps use different colors for their points to help indicate if their fluorescence changes differently.

      Thank you for the reviewer's suggestion. In the revised version of the figure, we have outlined the regions of the analyzed cells.

      Fig 3 J: Should the reference be Dubrulle et al 2015, rather than Julien et al?

      Thanks, we have corrected.

      References:

      Alexander, J. & Stainier, D. Y. A molecular pathway leading to endoderm formation in zebrafish. Current biology : CB 9, 1147-1157 (1999).

      Barone, V. et al. An Effective Feedback Loop between Cell-Cell Contact Duration and Morphogen Signaling Determines Cell Fate. Dev. Cell 43, 198-211.e12 (2017).

      Economou, A. D., Guglielmi, L., East, P. & Hill, C. S. Nodal signaling establishes a competency window for stochastic cell fate switching. Dev. Cell 57, 2604-2622.e5 (2022).

      Gritsman, K. et al. The EGF-CFC protein one-eyed pinhead is essential for nodal signaling. Cell 97, 121-132 (1999).

      Gritsman, K., Talbot, W. S. & Schier, A. F. Nodal signaling patterns the organizer. Development (Cambridge, England) 127, 921-932 (2000).

      Kawamura, A. et al. Groucho-associated transcriptional repressor ripply1 is required for proper transition from the presomitic mesoderm to somites. Developmental cell 9, 735-744 (2005).

      Kawamura, A., Koshida, S. & Takada, S. Activator-to-repressor conversion of T-box transcription factors by the Ripply family of Groucho/TLE-associated mediators. Molecular and cellular biology 28, 3236-3244 (2008).

      Sako, K. et al. Optogenetic Control of Nodal Signaling Reveals a Temporal Pattern of Nodal Signaling Regulating Cell Fate Specification during Gastrulation. Cell Rep. 16, 866-877 (2016).

      Rogers, K. W. et al. Nodal patterning without Lefty inhibitory feedback is functional but fragile. eLife 6, e28785 (2017).

      Warga, R. M. & Nüsslein-Volhard, C. Origin and development of the zebrafish endoderm. Development 126, 827-838 (1999).

      References:

      (1) Steinbeisser, H., and De Robertis, E.M. (1993). Xenopus goosecoid: a gene expressed in the prechordal plate that has dorsalizing activity. C R Acad Sci III 316, 959-971.

      (2) Warga, R.M., and Nusslein-Volhard, C. (1999). Origin and development of the zebrafish endoderm. Development (Cambridge, England) 126, 827-838. 10.1242/dev.126.4.827.

      (3) Sako, K., Pradhan, S.J., Barone, V., Inglés-Prieto, Á., Müller, P., Ruprecht, V., Čapek, D., Galande, S., Janovjak, H., and Heisenberg, C.P. (2016). Optogenetic Control of Nodal Signaling Reveals a Temporal Pattern of Nodal Signaling Regulating Cell Fate Specification during Gastrulation. Cell reports 16, 866-877. 10.1016/j.celrep.2016.06.036.

      (4) van Boxtel, A.L., Economou, A.D., Heliot, C., and Hill, C.S. (2018). Long-Range Signaling Activation and Local Inhibition Separate the Mesoderm and Endoderm Lineages. Developmental cell 44, 179-191.e175. 10.1016/j.devcel.2017.11.021.

      (5) Cheng, T., Xing, Y.Y., Liu, C., Li, Y.F., Huang, Y., Liu, X., Zhang, Y.J., Zhao, G.Q., Dong, Y., Fu, X.X., et al. (2023). Nodal coordinates the anterior-posterior patterning of germ layers and induces head formation in zebrafish explants. Cell reports 42, 112351. 10.1016/j.celrep.2023.112351.

      (6) Economou, A.D., Guglielmi, L., East, P., and Hill, C.S. (2022). Nodal signaling establishes a competency window for stochastic cell fate switching. Developmental cell 57, 2604-2622 e2605. 10.1016/j.devcel.2022.11.008.

      (7) Schier, A.F., and Talbot, W.S. (2005). Molecular genetics of axis formation in zebrafish. Annual review of genetics 39, 561-613. 10.1146/annurev.genet.37.110801.143752.

      (8) Barone, V., Lang, M., Krens, S.F.G., Pradhan, S.J., Shamipour, S., Sako, K., Sikora, M., Guet, C.C., and Heisenberg, C.P. (2017). An Effective Feedback Loop between Cell-Cell Contact Duration and Morphogen Signaling Determines Cell Fate. Developmental cell 43, 198-211.e112. 10.1016/j.devcel.2017.09.014.

      (9) Muller, P., Rogers, K.W., Jordan, B.M., Lee, J.S., Robson, D., Ramanathan, S., and Schier, A.F. (2012). Differential diffusivity of Nodal and Lefty underlies a reaction-diffusion patterning system. Science (New York, N.Y.) 336, 721-724. 10.1126/science.1221920.

      (10) Rogers, K.W., Lord, N.D., Gagnon, J.A., Pauli, A., Zimmerman, S., Aksel, D.C., Reyon, D., Tsai, S.Q., Joung, J.K., and Schier, A.F. (2017). Nodal patterning without Lefty inhibitory feedback is functional but fragile. eLife 6. 10.7554/eLife.28785.

      (11) Thisse, B., Wright, C.V., and Thisse, C. (2000). Activin- and Nodal-related factors control antero-posterior patterning of the zebrafish embryo. Nature 403, 425-428. 10.1038/35000200.

      (12) Eroglu, B., Wang, G., Tu, N., Sun, X., and Mivechi, N.F. (2006). Critical role of Brg1 member of the SWI/SNF chromatin remodeling complex during neurogenesis and neural crest induction in zebrafish. Developmental dynamics : an official publication of the American Association of Anatomists 235, 2722-2735. 10.1002/dvdy.20911.

      (13) Hensley, M.R., Emran, F., Bonilla, S., Zhang, L., Zhong, W., Grosu, P., Dowling, J.E., and Leung, Y.F. (2011). Cellular expression of Smarca4 (Brg1)-regulated genes in zebrafish retinas. BMC developmental biology 11, 45. 10.1186/1471-213X-11-45.

      (14) Kawamura, A., Koshida, S., Hijikata, H., Ohbayashi, A., Kondoh, H., and Takada, S. (2005). Groucho-associated transcriptional repressor ripply1 is required for proper transition from the presomitic mesoderm to somites. Developmental cell 9, 735-744. 10.1016/j.devcel.2005.09.021.

      (15) Kawamura, A., Koshida, S., and Takada, S. (2008). Activator-to-repressor conversion of T-box transcription factors by the Ripply family of Groucho/TLE-associated mediators. Mol Cell Biol 28, 3236-3244. 10.1128/MCB.01754-07.

      (16) Ross, S., Cheung, E., Petrakis, T.G., Howell, M., Kraus, W.L., and Hill, C.S. (2006). Smads orchestrate specific histone modifications and chromatin remodeling to activate transcription. EMBO J 25, 4490-4502. 10.1038/sj.emboj.7601332.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors aimed to elucidate the recruitment order and assembly of the Cdv proteins during Sulfolobus acidocaldarius archaeal cell division using a bottom-up reconstitution approach. They employed liposome-binding assays, EM, and fluorescence microscopy with in vitro reconstitution in dumbbellshaped liposomes to explore how CdvA, CdvB, and the homologues of ESCRT-III proteins (CdvB, CdvB1, and CdvB2) interact to form membrane remodeling complexes.

      The study sought to reconstitute the Cdv machinery by first analyzing their assembly as two subcomplexes: CdvA:CdvB and CdvB1:CdvB2ΔC. The authors report that CdvA binds lipid membranes only in the presence of CdvB and localizes preferentially to membrane necks. Similarly, the findings on CdvB1:CdvB2ΔC indicate that truncation of CdvB2 facilitates filament formation and enhances curvature sensitivity in interaction with CdvB1. Finally, while the authors reconstitute a quaternary CdvA:CdvB:CdvB1:CdvB2 complex and demonstrate its enrichment at membrane necks, the mechanistic details of how these complexes drive membrane remodeling by subcomplexes removal by the proteasome and/or CdvC remain speculative.

      Although the work highlights intriguing similarities with eukaryotic ESCRT-III systems and explores unique archaeal adaptations, the conclusions drawn would benefit from stronger experimental validation and a more comprehensive mechanistic framework.

      Strengths:

      The study of machinery assembly and its involvement in membrane remodeling, particularly using bottom-up reconstituted in vitro systems, presents significant challenges. This is particularly true for systems like the ESCRT-III complex, which localizes uniquely at the lumen of membrane necks prior to scission. The use of dumbbell-shaped liposomes in this study provides a promising experimental model to investigate ESCRT-III and ESCRT-III-like protein activity at membrane necks.

      The authors present intriguing evidence regarding the sequential recruitment of ESCRT-III proteins in crenarchaea-a close relative of eukaryotes. This finding suggests that the hierarchical recruitment characteristic of eukaryotic systems may predate eukaryogenesis, which is a significant and exciting contribution. However, the broader implications of these findings for membrane remodeling mechanisms remain speculative, and the study would benefit from stronger experimental validation and expanded contextualization within the field.

      We thank the Referee for his/her appreciation of our work.

      Weaknesses:

      This manuscript presents several methodological inconsistencies and lacks key controls to validate its claims. Additionally, there is insufficient information about the number of experimental repetitions, statistical analyses, and a broader discussion of the major findings in the context of open questions in the field.

      We have now added more controls, information about repetitions, and discussion.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The Crenarchaeal Cdv division system represents a reduced form of the universal and ubiquitous ESCRT membrane reverse-topology scission machinery, and therefore a prime candidate for synthetic and reconstitution studies. The work here represents a solid extension of previous work in the field, clarifying the order of recruitment of Cdv proteins to curved membranes.

      Strengths:

      The use of a recently developed approach to produce dumbbell-shaped liposomes (De Franceschi et al. 2022), which allowed the authors to assess recruitment of various Cdv assemblies to curved membranes or membrane necks; reconstitution of a quaternary Cdv complex at a membrane neck.

      We thank the Referee for his/her appreciation of the work.

      Weaknesses:

      The manuscript is a bit light on quantitative detail, across the various figures, and several key controls are missing (CdvA, B alone to better interpret the co-polymerisation phenotypes and establish the true order of recruitment, for example) - addressing this would make the paper much stronger. The authors could also include in the discussion a short paragraph on implications for our understanding of ESCRT function in other contexts and/or in archaeal evolution, as well as a brief exploration of the possible reasons for the discrepancy between the foci observed in their liposome assays and the large rings observed in cells - to better serve the interests of a broad audience.

      We have now added more controls, information about repetitions, and discussion.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this report, De Franceschi et al. purify components of the Cdv machinery in archaeon M. sedula and probe their interactions with membrane and with one-another in vitro using two main assays - liposome flotation and fluorescent imaging of encapsulated proteins. This has the potential to add to the field by showing how the order of protein recruitment seen in cells is related to the differential capacity of individual proteins to bind membranes when alone or when combined.

      Strengths:

      Using the floatation assay, they demonstrate that CdvA and CdvB bind liposomes when combined. While CdvB1 also binds liposomes under these conditions, in the floatation assay, CdvB2 lacking its C-terminus is not efficiently recruited to membranes unless CdvAB or CdvB1 are present. The authors then employ a clever liposome assay that generates chained spherical liposomes connected by thin membrane necks, which allows them to accurately control the buffer composition inside and outside of the liposome. With this, they show that all four proteins accumulate in necks of dumbbell-shaped liposomes that mimic the shape of constricting necks in cell division. Taken altogether, these data lead them to propose that Cdv proteins are sequentially recruited to the membrane as has also been suggested by in vivo studies of ESCRT-III dependent cell division in crenarchaea.

      We thank the Referee for his/her appreciation of the work.

      Weaknesses:

      These experiments provide a good starting point for the in vitro study the interaction of Cdv system components with the membrane and their consecutive recruitment. However, several experimental controls are missing that complicate their ability to draw strong conclusions. Moreover, some results are inconsistent across the two main assays which make the findings difficult to interpret:

      (1) Missing controls.

      Various protein mixtures are assessed for their membrane-binding properties in different ways. However, it is difficult to interpret the effect of any specific protein combination, when the same experiment is not presented in a way that includes separate tests for all individual components. In this sense, the paper lacks important controls. For example, Fig 1C is missing the CdvB-only control. The authors remark that CdvB did not polymerise (data not shown) but do not comment on whether it binds membrane in their assays. In the introduction, Samson et al., 2011 is cited as a reference to show that CdvB does not bind membrane. However, here the authors are working with protein from a different organism in a different buffer, using a different membrane composition and a different assay. Given that so many variables are changing, it would be good to present how M. sedula CdvB behaves under these conditions.

      We thank the referee for raising this point. We have now added these data in Figure 1C. Indeed it turns out that CdvB from M. sedula exhibits clear membrane binding on its own in a flotation assay.

      Similarly, there is no data showing how CdvB alone or CdvA alone behave in the dumbbell liposome assay.

      Without these controls, it's impossible to say whether CdvA recruits CdvB or the other way around. The manuscript would be much stronger if such data could be added.

      We have now added these data in Figure 1E, 1F and 1G. Overall, we can confirm that CdvA binds the membrane better in the presence of CdvB (although both proteins can bind the membrane on their own). Both proteins appear to recognize the curved region of the membrane neck.

      (2) Some of the discrepancies in the data generated using different assays are not discussed.

      The authors show that CdvB2∆C binds membrane and localizes to membrane necks in the dumbbell liposome assay, but no membrane binding is detected in the flotation assay. The discrepancy between these results further highlights the need for CdvB-only and CdvA-only controls.

      We have now added these controls in Figure 1. In addition, we would like to clarify that the flotation assay and the SMS dumbbell assay serve different purposes and are not directly comparable in quantitative terms. In the flotation assay, all the protein present as input is eventually recovered and visualized. Thus, quantitative information on the proportion of the fraction of the total protein bound to lipids can be inferred from this assay. The SMS assay, in contrast, provides a very different kind of information. Because of the particular protocol required to generate dumbbells (De Franceschi, 2022), the total amount of protein in the inner buffer in dumbbells is not accurately defined, because protein that is not correctly reconstituted (e.g. which aggregates while still in the droplet phase) will interfere with vesicle generation, with the result that dumbbell with such aggregates is generally not formed in the first place. This renders it impossible to draw any quantitative conclusions about the proportion of the sample bound to lipids. The SMS is therefore not directly comparable to the flotation assay, and it is rather complementary to it. Indeed, the purpose of the SMS is to provide information about curvature selectivity of the protein.

      (3) Validation of the liposome assay.

      The experimental setup to create dumbbell-shaped liposomes seems great and is a clever novel approach pioneered by the team. Not only can the authors manipulate liposome shape, they also state that this allows them to accurately control the species present on the inside and outside of the liposome. Interpreting the results of the liposome assay, however, depends on the geometry being correct. To make this clearer, it would seem important to include controls to prove that all the protein imaged at membrane necks lie on the inside of liposomes. In the images in SFig3 there appears to be protein outside of the liposome. It would also be helpful to present data to show test whether the necks are open, as suggested in the paper, by using FRAP or some other related technique.

      We thank the Referee for his/her appreciation. The proteins are encapsulated inside the liposomes, not outside of them. While Figure S3 might give the appearance that there is some protein outside, this is actually just an imaging artifact. Author response image 1 (below) explains this: When the membrane and protein channel are shown separately, it is clear that the protein cluster that appeared to be ‘outside’ actually colocalizes with an extra small dumbbell lobe (yellow arrowhead). The protein appeared to be outside of it because (1) the protein fluorescent signal is stronger than the signal from the membrane, and (2) there is a certain time delay in the acquisition of the two channels (0.5-1 second), thus the membrane may have slightly shifted out of focus when the fluorescence was being acquired. We are confident that the protein is inside in these dumbbells because the procedure for preparing the dumbbells requires extensive emulsification by pipetting, which requires ≈ 1 minute. This time is more than sufficient for proteins with high affinity for the membrane, like ESCRT and Cdv, to bind the membrane. For an example of how fast binding under confinement can be, please see movie 2 from this paper: De Franceschi N, Alqabandi M, Miguet N, Caillat C, Mangenot S, Weissenhorn W, Bassereau P. The ESCRT protein CHMP2B acts as a diffusion barrier on reconstituted membrane necks. J Cell Sci. 2018 Aug 3;132(4):jcs217968.

      Moreover, in many instances, we observed that the protein is inside because, by increasing the gain in the images post-acquisition, a clear protein signal appear in the lumen (see Author response image 2).

      Author response image 1.

      Separate channels showing colocalization of protein and lipids (adapted from Figure S3). The zoom-in shows separate channels, highlighting that the CdvB2 cluster that seems to be ‘outside the dumbbell’ actually colocalizes with the small terminal lobe of the dumbbell, indicating that the protein is encapsulated within that lobe.

      Author response image 2.

      Residual protein present inside lumen of dumbbells as visualized by increasing the brightness post-acquisition.

      We are not sure what the referee means by “test whether the necks are open, as suggested in the paper”. We are confident that the lobes of dumbbells originated from a single floppy vesicle, and were therefore mutually connected with an open neck (at least at the onset of the experiment). We have performed extensive FRAP assays on dumbbells in previous papers (De Franceschi et al., ACS nano 2022 and De Franceschi et al., Nature Nanotech 2024) which unequivocally proved that these chains of dumbbells are connected with open necks. We now also performed a few FRAP assay with reconstituted Cdv proteins, which confirmed this point. We have added a movie of such an experiment to the manuscript (Movie 1).

      Investigating whether the necks are open or closed after Cdv reconstitution is indeed a very relevant question, that could be rephrased as “verify whether Cdv proteins or their combination can induce membrane scission”. This is however beyond the scope of this manuscript, as the current work merely addressed the question of hierarchical recruitment of Cdv proteins at the membrane. We plan to examine this in future work.

      (4) Quantification of results from the liposome assay.

      The paper would be strengthened by the inclusion of more quantitative data relating to the liposome assay. Firstly, only a single field of view is shown for each condition. Because of this, the reader cannot know whether this is a representative image, or an outlier? Can the authors do some quantification of the data to demonstrate this? The line scan profiles in the supplemental figures would be an example of this, but again in these Figures only a single image is analyzed.

      The images that we showed are indeed representative. The dumbbells that are generated by the SMS approach contain an “internal control”: in each dumbbell, the protein has the option of localizing at the neck or localizing elsewhere in the region of flat membrane. We see consistently that Cdv proteins have a strong preference for localizing at the neck.

      We would recommend that the authors present quantitative data to show the extent of co-localization at the necks in each case. They also need a metric to report instances in which protein is not seen at the neck, e.g. CdvB2 but not CdvB1 in Fig2I, which rules out a simple curvature preference for CdvB2 as stated in line 182.

      While the request for better quantitation is reasonable, this would require carrying out very significant new experiments at the microscope, which is rendered near-impossible since both first authors left the lab on to new positions.

      Secondly, the authors state that they see CdvB2∆C recruited to the membrane by CdvB1 (lines 184-187, Fig 2I). However, this simple conclusion is not borne out in the data. Inspecting the CdvB2∆C panels of Fig 2I, Fig3C, and Fig3D, CdvB2∆C signal can be seen at positions which don't colocalize with other proteins. The authors also observe CdvB2∆C localizing to membrane necks by itself (Fig 2E). Therefore, while CdvB1 and CdvB2∆C colocalize in the flotation assay, there is no strong evidence for CdvB2∆C recruitment by CdvB1 in dumbbells. This is further underscored by the observation that in the presented data, all Cdv proteins always appear to localize at dumbbell necks, irrespective of what other components are present inside the liposome. Although one nice control is presented (ZipA), this suggests that more work is required to be sure that the proteins are behaving properly in this assay. For example, if membrane binding surfaces of Cdv proteins are mutated, does this lead to the accumulation of proteins in the bulk of the liposome as expected?

      In the particular example of Figure 2I, it indeed appears that there are some clusters of CdvB2ΔC that do not contain CdvB1 (we indicated them in Author response image 3 by red arrowheads), while the yellow arrowheads indicate clusters that contain both proteins. It can be clearly seen that the clusters that do contain both proteins (yellow arrows) are localized at necks, while those that only contain CdvB2ΔC (red arrows) are not localized at necks. This is no coincidence. The clusters indicated by the red arrow do contain CdvB1. However, these clusters rapidly diffuse on the membrane plane because they are not fixed at the neck: therefore, they constantly shift in and out of focus. Because there is a time delay in the acquisition of each channel (between 0.5 and 1 second), these cluster were in focus when the CdvB2ΔC signal was being acquired, but sifted out of focus when the CdvB1 signal was being acquired. This implies that the clusters indicated by the yellow arrowheads are stably localized at necks, which is precisely the point we wished to make with this experiment: because Cdv proteins have an affinity for curved geometry, they preferentially and stably localize at necks. Why don’t all the clusters localize at necks then? We estimate that the simple answer is that, in this particular case, there are more clusters than there are necks, so some of the clusters must necessarily localize somewhere else.

      Author response image 3.

      Current Figure 2H, where clusters that are double-positive for both CdvB1 and CdvB2ΔC are indicated by yellow arrowheads, while cluster that apparently only contain CdvB2ΔC are indicated by red arrowheads. It is observed that all the double-positive clusters are localized at necks.

      (5) Rings.

      The authors should comment on why they never observe large Cdv rings in their experiments. In crenarchaeal cell division, CdvA and CdvB have been observed to form large rings in the middle of the 1 micron cell, before constriction. Only in the later stages of division are the ESCRTs localized to the constricting neck, at a time when CdvA is no longer present in the ring. Therefore, if the in vitro assay used by the authors really recapitulated the biology, one would expect to see large CdvAB rings in Figs 1EF. This is ignored in the model. In the proposed model of ring assembly (line 252), CdvAB ring formation is mentioned, but authors do not discuss the fact that they do not observe CdvAB rings - only foci at membrane necks. The discussion section would benefit from the authors commenting on this.

      The referee is correct: it is intriguing that we don’t see micron-sized rings for CdvA and CdvB. We do note that our EM data (Fig.S1) show that CdvA in its own can form rings of about 100-200nm diameter, well below the diffraction limit, that could well correspond to the foci that we optically resolve in Figure 1. We now added a brief comment on this to the manuscript on lines 256-264.

      (6) Stoichiometry

      It is not clear why 100% of the visible CdvA and 100% of the the visible CdvB are shifted to the lipid fraction in 1C. Perhaps this is a matter of quantification. Can the authors comment on the stoichiometry here?

      We agree that this was unclear. Since that particular gel was stained by coumassie, the quantitative signals might be unreliable, and hence we have repeated this experiment using fluorescently labelled proteins, which show indeed a less extreme distribution. This was also done to make the data more uniform, as requested by the referees.

      (7) Significance of quantification of MBP-tagged filaments.

      Authors use tagging and removal of MBP as a convenient, controllable system to trigger polymerisation of various Cdv proteins. However, it is unclear what is the value and significance of reporting the width and length of the short linear filaments that are formed by the MBP-tagged proteins. Presumably they are artefactual assemblies generated by the presence of the tag?

      Providing a measure of the changes induced by MBP removal, in fact, validates that this actually has an effect. But perhaps this places too much emphasis on the short filaments. We now opted for a compromise, removing the quantification of the width and length of short filaments formed by MBPtagged protein from the text, but keeping the supplementary figure showing their distribution as compared to the other filaments (Figure S2E, SF).

      Similar Figure 2C doesn't seem a useful addition to the paper.

      We removed panel 2C, and now merely report these values in the text.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I would suggest the authors perform a deeper discussion about their findings, such as what are the evolutionary implications, how they think lipids from these archaea may affect the recruitment process,...

      Because there is no exact homology between Archaea Cdv proteins and Eukaryotic ESCRT-III proteins, we do not feel our work brings new evolutionary implications beyond what we already state in the manuscript. We also dis not perform experiments using Archaea lipids, thus we would rather not speculate on how they may potentially affect the recruitment of Cdv proteins.

      In general, the manuscript lacks information regarding some scale bars, number of experimental repetitions (n or N), statistical analysis when needed, information about protein concentrations used in their assays.

      We have now added this information in the manuscript.

      Below, I provide a list of comments that I think the authors should address to improve the manuscript:

      (1) Line 113-114: The authors test protein-membrane interactions using flotation assays with positively curved SUV membranes but encapsulate proteins in dumbbell-shaped liposomes with negative curvature at the connecting necks. Might the use of membranes with opposite curvatures affect the recruitment process? Since the proteins are fluorescently labeled, I suggest testing recruitment using flat giant unilamellar vesicles or supported lipid bilayers (with zero curvature) to validate their findings.

      We thank the referee for this suggestion. Please do note that we are not claiming in our paper that Cdv proteins recognize negative curvature. We merely observe that they localize at necks. The neck of a dumbbell exhibits the so-called “catenoid” geometry, which is characterized by having both positive and negative curvature.

      Experimentally, on the SUVs, we now realize there was a mistake in the method section: In the flotation assay we in fact used multilamellar vesicles, not SUVs, precisely for the reason mentioned by the referee. We apologize for the oversight and have now corrected this in the methods. Multilamellar vesicles are not characterized by a strong positive curvature as SUVs do, but we do agree that they likely don’t have negative curvature there either. Because of the heterogeneous nature of the multilamellar vesicles, they provide a binding assay that was rather independent of the curvature. Complementary to the flotation assay, the SMS approach was employed to reveal the curvature preference of proteins.

      Finally, we performed the experiment on large GUVs suggested by the referee using CdvB as an example, but this turned out to be inconclusive because the protein forms clusters: these clusters may be creating local curvature at the nanometer scale, which cannot be resolved by optical microscopy (Author response image 4). This is quite typical for proteins that recognize curvature (cf. for instance: De Franceschi N, Alqabandi M, Miguet N, Caillat C, Mangenot S, Weissenhorn W, Bassereau P. The ESCRT protein CHMP2B acts as a diffusion barrier on reconstituted membrane necks. J Cell Sci. 2018 Aug 3;132(4):jcs217968.)

      Author response image 4.

      Fluorescently labelled CdvB bound to giant unilamellar vesicle. The protein was added in the outer buffer. CdvB forms distinct clusters, which may generate a local region of high membrane curvature.

      (2) Line 138-139: How is His-ZipA binding the membrane? Wouldn't Ni<sup>2+</sup>-NTA lipids be required? If not, how is the binding achieved?

      Indeed, NTA-lipids were present. This is now stated both in the legend and in the methods.

      (3) In the encapsulated protein assays, why does the luminal fluorescence intensity of the encapsulated protein sometimes appear similar to the bulk fluorescence signal? Since only a small fraction of the protein assembles at membrane necks, shouldn't the luminal pool of unbound protein show higher fluorescence intensity inside the liposomes?

      We thank the referee for raising this point and giving us the opportunity to explain this. The reason is that Cdv proteins have a very high affinity for the neck, and when they cluster at the neck the fluorescence intensity of the cluster is many times higher than the background fluorescence. Because we were interested in imaging the clusters and avoiding overexposing them, we adjusted the imaging conditions accordingly, with the result that the fluorescence from both the lumen and the bulk is at very low level.

      By choosing different imaging conditions, however, it can be actually seen that the signal inside the lumen is clearly higher than the bulk: this can be seen for instance in Author response image 2, where the brightness has been properly adjusted.

      (4) Line 184-185: In Fig. 2I, some CdvB2ΔC puncta seem independent of CdvB1 and are not localized at membrane necks. How many such puncta exist? For example, in the provided micrograph, 2 out of 5 clusters are independent of CdvB1. This proportion is significant. Could the authors quantify the prevalence of these structures and discuss why they form?

      We thank the referee for giving us the opportunity to explain this apparent discrepancy. We’ll like to stress the fact that CdvB2ΔC and CdvB1 form an obligate heterodimer: in all our experiments, without exception, we find that they form a strong complex when we mix the two proteins. This is true both in dumbbells and in flotation assays.

      In the particular example of Figure 2I, it indeed appears that there are some clusters of CdvB2ΔC that do not contain CdvB1 (we indicated them in Author response image 3 by red arrowheads), while the yellow arrowheads indicate clusters that contain both proteins. It can be clearly seen that the clusters that do contain both proteins (yellow arrows) are localized at necks, while those that only contain CdvB2ΔC (red arrows) are not localized at necks. This is no coincidence. The clusters indicated by the red arrow do contain CdvB1. However, these clusters rapidly diffuse on the membrane plane because they are not fixed at the neck: therefore, they constantly shift in and out of focus. Because there is a time delay in the acquisition of each channel (between 0.5 and 1 second), these cluster were in focus when the CdvB2ΔC signal was being acquired, but sifted out of focus when the CdvB1 signal was being acquired. This implies that the clusters indicated by the yellow arrowheads are stably localized at necks, which is precisely the point we wished to make with this experiment: because Cdv proteins have affinity for curved geometry, they preferentially and stably localize at necks. Why don’t all the clusters localize at necks then?

      (5) Figure 1E and 1F: Why do lipids accumulate and colocalize with the proteins? How can the authors confirm lumen connectivity between vesicles? Performing FRAP assays could validate protein localization and enrichment at the lumen of the membrane necks.

      At first sight, indeed some lipid enrichment seems to be observed at the neck between lobes of dumbbells.

      This is, however, an imaging artifact due to the fact that the neck is diffraction limited. As shown in the Author response image 5, we are acquiring the membrane signal from both lobes at the neck region, and therefore the signal is roughly double, hence the apparent lipid enrichment.

      Author response image 5.

      Schematic illustrating that the neck between two lobes is smaller than the diffraction limit of optical microscopy (the size of a typical pixel is indicated by the green square). Because of this technical limitation, the fluorescence intensity of the membrane at the neck is twice that of a single membrane.

      The referee is correct in pointing out that these images do not prove that the lobes are connected, and that FRAP assays is the only way to prove this point. However, in previous papers we have confirmed extensively that in chains of dumbbells the lobes are connected:

      - De Franceschi N, Pezeshkian W, Fragasso A, Bruininks BMH, Tsai S, Marrink SJ, Dekker C. Synthetic Membrane Shaper for Controlled Liposome Deformation. ACS Nano. 2022 Nov 28;17(2):966–78. doi: 10.1021/acsnano.2c06125.

      - De Franceschi N, Barth R, Meindlhumer S, Fragasso A, Dekker C. Dynamin A as a one-component division machinery for synthetic cells. Nat Nanotechnol. 2024 Jan;19(1):70-76. doi: 10.1038/s41565023-01510-3.

      Random sticking of liposomes would also generate clusters of vesicles, not linear chains. We now provide also a Movie (Movie 1) supporting this point.

      Investigating whether the necks are open or closed after Cdv reconstitution is indeed a very relevant question, that could be rephrased as “verify whether Cdv proteins or their combination can induce membrane scission”. This is however beyond the scope of this manuscript, as the current work merely addressed the question of hierarchical recruitment of Cdv proteins at the membrane. We plan to examine this in future work.

      (6) Why didn't the authors use the same lipid composition, particularly the same proportion of negatively charged lipids, on the SUVs of the flotation assays and on the dumbbell-shaped liposomes?

      In flotation assays, it is typical to use a relatively large proportion of negatively charged lipids, to promote protein binding. This is because the aim is to maximize membrane coverage by the protein. The SMS procedure to generate dumbbell-shaped GUVs is completely different, however. Rather than covering the membrane with protein, the idea is to reduce the amount of protein to a minimum, so that any curvature preference can be best visualized. This is e.g. routinely done in tube pulling experiments, for the same reason (See for instance Prévost C, Zhao H, Manzi J, Lemichez E, Lappalainen P, Callan-Jones A, Bassereau P. IRSp53 senses negative membrane curvature and phase separates along membrane tubules. Nat Commun. 2015 Oct 15;6:8529. doi: 10.1038/ncomms9529).

      (7) Line 117-119: The suggestion that polymer formation between CdvA and CdvB facilitates membrane recruitment is intriguing. However, fluorescence microscopy experiments could better elucidate whether there is sequential recruitment of CdvB followed by CdvA, or if these proteins form a heteropolymer composite for membrane binding. Can CdvB bind membranes independently, or does this require synergy between CdvA and CdvB.

      We thank the referee for prompting us to perform this experiment. As we now show in Figure 1C, CdvB indeed is able to bind the membrane independently of CdvA. Whether this happens sequentially or simultaneously is an interesting question, but one that is impossible to address with either the SMS or the flotation assay, because in both cases we can only observe the endpoint of the recruitment.

      We would also like to clarify one specific experimental detail. Perhaps unsurprisingly, the results from the flotation assay are dependent on the way the assay is performed. In particular, we observed that the same protein can exhibit a different binding profile depending on whether it is being loaded either at the top or at the bottom of the gradient. This can be seen in Author response image 6. This is counterintuitive, since once the equilibrium is reached, the result should only depend on the density of the sample. We performed an overnight centrifugation (> 16 hours) on a short tube (< 3 cm tall), thus equilibrium is being reached (which is corroborated by the fact that CdvB1 and CdvB2 can float to the top of the gradient within this timespan, as shown in Figure 2C, 2E, 2G). We ascribe the difference between top and bottom loading to the fact that, when the sample is loaded at the bottom, it has to be mixed with a concentrated sucrose solution, while in the case of loading from the top, this is not done.

      In literature, both loading from top and from bottom have been used:

      - Lata S, Schoehn G, Jain A, Pires R, Piehler J, Gottlinger HG, Weissenhorn W. Helical structures of ESCRTIII are disassembled by VPS4. Science. 2008 Sep 5;321(5894):1354-7. doi: 10.1126/science.1161070

      - Moriscot C, Gribaldo S, Jault JM, Krupovic M, Arnaud J, Jamin M, Schoehn G, Forterre P, Weissenhorn W, Renesto P. Crenarchaeal CdvA forms double-helical filaments containing DNA and interacts with ESCRT-III-like CdvB. PLoS One. 2011;6(7):e21921. doi: 10.1371/journal.pone.0021921.

      - Senju Y, Lappalainen P, Zhao H. Liposome Co-sedimentation and Co-flotation Assays to Study LipidProtein Interactions. Methods Mol Biol. 2021;2251:195-204. doi: 10.1007/978-1-0716-1142-5_14. In performing the flotation assay for CdvB1 and CdvB2ΔC, or when using all 4 proteins together, we loaded the sample at the bottom, and we could detect reproducible binding to liposomes (Figures 2D, 2F, 2H, 3A). However, CdvB does not bind the membrane when loaded at the bottom. Thus, for the experiments shown in figure 1C, we loaded the proteins at the top. This experimental setup allowed us to highlight that CdvB indeed induce a stronger interaction between CdvA and the membrane.

      Author response image 6.

      CdvB binding to multilamellar vesicles in a flotation assay. In the left panel, the sample was loaded at the top of the sucrose gradient; in the right panel it was loaded at the bottom.

      (8) Line 165-173: The authors claim that filament curvature differs between CdvB2ΔC alone and the CdvB1:CdvB2ΔC complex. Are these differences statistically significant? What is the sample size (N)? Furthermore, how do the authors confirm interactions between these proteins in the absence of membranes based solely on EM micrographs?

      We can confirm that the filaments are composed by both proteins, because the filaments have different curvature when both proteins are present. However, as requested by referee 3, point (7), we removed the quantification of curvature from panel 2C. We report the N number in the text.

      (9) Line 121-123: Are the authors referring to positive or negative membrane curvatures? The cited literature suggests ESCRT-III proteins either lack curvature preferences (e.g., Snf7, CHMP4B) or prefer high positive curvature (e.g., late ESCRT-III subunits). This is confusing since the authors later test recruitment to negatively curved necks.

      We do not claim that Cdv proteins prefer positive or negative curvature, because the necks present in dumbbells have a catenoid geometry, which include both positive and negative curvature. We have now clarified this in the discussion.

      (10) Since the conclusions rely on the oligomeric state of the proteins, providing SEC-MALS spectra to show the protein oligomeric state right after the purification would strengthen the claims.

      While such SEC-MALDI experiments may be interesting, practical implementation of this is not possible since both first authors left the lab on to new positions.

      (11) Line 157-160: Suppl. Fig. 2 shows only a single EM micrograph of a small filament. Could the authors provide lower magnification images showing more filaments?

      As requested by Referee 3, point (7), we have toned down the importance of these short filaments.

      Also, why are the sample sizes for filament length (N=161) and width (N=129) different?

      Protein filaments formed by Cdv tend to stick to each other side by side, so that for some filaments the width could not be accurately assessed, and accordingly those were removed from the analysis.

      (12) The introduction states that CdvA binds membranes while CdvB does not. However, the results suggest CdvB facilitates membrane binding, helping CdvA attach. This discrepancy needs further explanation.

      We thank the referee for raising this point. We have now performed additional experiments (both SMS assay and flotation assays) showing that indeed CdvB from M. sedula is (unlike CdvB from Sulfolobus) able to bind the membrane on its own (Figure 1C, 1F).

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Best practice would be to show single fluorescence channels in grayscale or inverted grayscale, retaining pseudocolouring only for the merged multichannel image.

      We decided to retain and standardize the colors, both for gels and for microscopy images, in order to have the same color-code for each protein. We believe this improves readability, and this was also a request from Referee 3. Thus, throughout the manuscript, CdvA is in grayscale, CdvB in yellow, CdvB1 in green, CdvB2ΔC in cyan and the membrane in magenta.

      It would be great to include a quantification of liposome curvature vs focal intensity of the various Cdv components - across figures.

      Quantification of liposome curvature at the neck can be done (De Franceschi et al., Nature Nanotech. 2024). However, in practice, this requires transferring of the sample post-preparation into a new chamber in order to increase the signal-to-noise ratio of the encapsulated dye, a procedure that drastically reduces the yield of dumbbells. The very sizeable amount of work required to obtain reliable measurements, especially considering all the proteins and protein combinations used in this study, indicates that this represents a project in itself, which goes well beyond the scope of this manuscript.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) We would encourage the authors to consider including the length of the scale bar next to the scale bar in each image and not in the figure description. This would greatly aid in clarity and interpretation of figures.

      We have now written the length of the scale bar in the figures.

      (2) In a similar vein, could the authors consider labeling panels throughout the manuscript, writing that sample is being presented? This goes mainly for the negative stain and the dumbbell fluorescence images, as having to continuously consult the figure legend again hinders clarity.

      We have now labelled the EM images as requested by the referee.

      (3) Lines 254-256: would the statement hold not only for CdvB2∆C, but for all imaged proteins? They all seem to localize to membrane necks, presumably favoring membrane binding to a specific membrane topology.

      We agree with the referee, and changed the phrasing accordingly.

      (4) CdvB2∆C construct - presumably this was a truncation of helix 5 of the ESCRT-III domain? Figure 1A shows that the ESCRT-III domain spans residues 34-170 and therefore implies that all five ESCRT-III helices (which make up the ESCRT-III domain) are present in the C-terminal truncation. Could the authors clarify?

      Indeed, the truncation was done at residue 170.

      (5) Results of the liposome flotation assays are presented inconsistently across the three figures (Figs 1C, 2DFH, and 3A). This makes it more difficult than it needs to be to interpret and compare results. Could the authors consider presenting the three gels in a more similar, standardized way across the three figures?

      To improve readability, we now standardized the colors, both for gels and for microscopy images, in order to have the same color-code for each protein. Thus, throughout the manuscript, CdvA is in grayscale, CdvB in yellow, CdvB1 in green, CdvB2ΔC in cyan and the membrane in magenta.

      (6) From the data presented in Fig 1EF, it cannot be concluded whether CdvB and CdvA colocalize, as only one protein is labelled. Is there a technical reason for this?

      We have now repeated the same experiment by having both proteins labelled, confirming that there is co-localization at the neck (Figure 1G).

      (7) Fig 2C: is the difference between the two samples significant

      As requested by Referee 3, we have removed Figure 2C.

      (8) Fig 2I is missing a 'merged' panel.

      We have now added the merged panel.

      (9) The fluorescence intensity plots in Supp Figs 1C and 3C would be easier to interpret if the lipid and protein signal would be plotted on the same plot (say, with normalized fluorescence intensity)

      It is not immediately obvious to us what the signal should be normalized to. What we wished to convey with these plots was that the intensity of proteins spikes at the neck region. In an attempt to improve clarity, we have now aligned the plots vertically, and highlighted the position of the neck.

      (10) CdvA should have a capital "A" in Figure 3A, panel 3.

      We have now corrected this.

      (11) The discussion doesn't comment on the need to truncate CdvB2.

      This is explained in the result session.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Kroeg et al. describe a novel method for 2D culture human induced pluripotent stem cells (hiPSCs) to form cortical tissue in a multiwell format. The method claims to offer a significant advancement over existing developmental models. Their approach allows them to generate cultures with precise, reproducible dimensions and structure with a single rosette; consistent geometry; incorporating multiple neuronal and glial cell types (cellular diversity); avoiding the necrotic core (often seen in free-floating models due to limited nutrient and oxygen diffusion). The researchers demonstrate the method's capacity for long-term culture, exceeding ten months, and show the formation of mature dendritic spines and considerable neuronal activity. The method aims to tackle multiple key problems of in vitro neural cultures: reproducibility, diversity, topological consistency, and electrophysiological activity. The authors suggest their potential in high-throughput screening and neurotoxicological studies.

      Strengths:

      The main advances in the paper seem to be: The culture developed by the authors appears to have optimal conditions for neural differentiation, lineage diversification, and long-term culture beyond 300 days. These seem to me as a major strength of the paper and an important contribution to the field. The authors present solid evidence about the high cell type diversity present in their cultures. It is a major point and therefore it could be better compared to the state of the art. I commend the authors for using three different IPS lines, this is a very important part of their proof. The staining and imaging quality of the manuscript is of excellent quality.

      We thank the reviewer for the positive comments on the potential of our novel platform to address key problems of in vitro neural culture, highlighting the longevity and reproducibility of the method across multiple cell lines.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The title is misleading: The presented cultures appear not to be organoids, but 2D neural cultures, with an insufficiently described intermediate EB stage. For nomenclature, see: doi: 10.1038/s41586-022-05219-6. Should the tissue develop considerable 3D depth, it would suffer from the same limited nutrient supply as 3D models - as the authors point out in their introduction.

      We appreciate the opportunity to clarify this point. We respectfully disagree that the cultures do not meet the consensus definition of an organoid. In fact, a direct quote from the seminal nomenclature paper referenced by the reviewer states: “We define organoids as in vitro-generated cellular systems that emerge by self-organization, include multiple cell types, and exhibit some cytoarchitectural and functional features reminiscent of an organ or organ region. Organoids can be generated as 3D cultures or by a combination of 3D and 2D approaches (also known as 2.5D) that can develop and mature over long periods of time (months to years).” (Pasca et al, 2022 doi10.1038/s41586-022-05219-6). Therefore, while many organoid types indeed have a more spherical or globular 3D shape, the term organoid also applies to semi-3D or nonglobular adherent organoids, such as renal (Czerniecki et al 2018, doi.org/10.1016/j.stem.2018.04.022) and gastrointestinal organoids (Kakni et al 2022, doi.org/10.1016/j.tibtech.2022.01.006). Accordingly, the adherent cortical organoids described in the manuscript exhibit self-organization to single radial structures consisting of multiple cell layers in the z-axis, reaching ~200um thickness (therefore remaining within the limits for sufficient nutrient supply), with consistent cytoarchitectural topology and electrophysiological activity, and therefore meet the consensus definition of an organoid.

      (2) The method therefore should be compared to state-of-the-art (well-based or not) 2D cultures, which seems to be somewhat overlooked in the paper, therefore making it hard to assess what the advance is that is presented by this work.

      It was not our intention to benchmark this model quantitatively against other culture systems. Rather, we have attempted to characterize the opportunities and limitations of this approach, with a qualitative contrast to other culture methods. Compared to stateof-the-art 2D neural network cultures, adherent cortical organoids provide distinct advantages in:

      (1) Higher order self-organized structure formation, including segregation of deeper and upper cortical layers.

      (2) Longevity: adherent cortical organoids can be successfully kept in culture for at least 1 year, whereas 2D cultures typically deteriorate after 8-12 weeks.

      (3) Maturity, including the formation of dendritic mushroom spines and robust electrophysiological activity.

      (4) Cell type diversity including a more physiological ratio of inhibitory and excitatory neurons (10% GAD67+/NeuN+ neurons in adherent cortical organoids, vs 1% in 2D neural networks), and the emergence of oligodendrocyte lineage cells.

      On the other hand, limitations of adherent cortical organoids compared to 2D neural network cultures include:

      (1) Culture times for organoids are much longer than for 2D cultures and the method can therefore be more laborious and more expensive.

      (2) Whole cell patch clamping is not easily feasible in adherent cortical organoids because of the restrictive geometry of 384-well plates.

      (3) Reproducibility is prominently claimed throughout the manuscript. However, it is challenging to assess this claim based on the data presented, which mostly contain single frames of unquantified, high-resolution images. There are almost no systematic quantifications presented. The ones present (Figure S1D, Figure 4) show very large variability. However, the authors show sets of images across wells (Figure S1B, Figure S3) which hint that in some important aspects, the culture seems reproducible and robust.

      We made considerable efforts to establish quantitative metrics to assess reproducibility. We applied a quantitative scoring system of single radial structures at different time points for multiple batches of all three lines as indicated in Figure S1C. This figure represents a comprehensive dataset in which each dot represents the average of a different batch of organoids containing 10-40 organoids per batch. To emphasize this, we have adapted the graph to better reflect the breadth of the dataset. Additional quantifications are given in Figure S2 for progenitor and layer markers for Line 1 and in Figure 2 for interneurons across all three lines, showing relatively low variability. That being said, we acknowledge the reviewer’s concerns and have modified the text to reduce the emphasis of this point, pending more extensive data addressing reproducibility across an even broader range of parameters.

      (4) What is in the middle? All images show markers in cells present around the center. The center however seems to be a dense lump of cells based on DAPI staining. What is the identity of these cells? Do these cells persist throughout the protocol? Do they divide? Until when? Addressing this prominent cell population is currently lacking.

      A more comprehensive characterization of the cells in the center remains a significant challenge due to the high cell density hindering antibody penetration. However, dyebased staining methods such as DAPI and the LIVE/DEAD panel confirm a predominance of intact nuclei with very minimal cell death. The limited available data suggest that a substantial proportion of the cells in the center are proliferative neural progenitors, indicated by immunolabeling for SOX2 (Figure 2A,D;Figure S4C). Furthermore, we are currently optimizing the conditions to perform single cell / nuclear RNA sequencing to further characterize the cellular composition of the organoids.

      (5) This manuscript proposes a new method of 2D neural culture. However, the description and representation of the method are currently insufficient. (a) The results section would benefit from a clear and concise, but step-by-step overview of the protocol. The current description refers to an earlier paper and appears to skip over some key steps. This section would benefit from being completely rewritten. This is not a replacement for a clear methods section, but a section that allows readers to clearly interpret results presented later.

      We have revised the manuscript to include a more detailed step-by-step overview of the protocol.

      (b) Along the same lines, the graphical abstract should be much more detailed. It should contain the time frames and the media used at the different stages of the protocol, seeding numbers, etc.

      As suggested, we have adapted the graphical abstract to include more detail.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, van der Kroeg et al have developed a method for creating 3D cortical organoids using iPSC-derived neural progenitor cells in 384-well plates, thus scaling down the neural organoids to adherent culture and a smaller format that is amenable to high throughput cultivation. These adherent cortical organoids, measuring 3 x 3 x 0.2 mm, self-organize over eight weeks and include multiple neuronal subtypes, astrocytes, and oligodendrocyte lineage cells.

      Strengths:

      (1) The organoids can be cultured for up to 10 months, exhibiting mature dendritic spines, axonal myelination, and robust neuronal activity.

      (2) Unlike free-floating organoids, these do not develop necrotic cores, making them ideal for high-throughput drug discovery, neurotoxicological screening, and brain disorder studies.

      (3) The method addresses the technical challenge of achieving higher-order neural complexity with reduced heterogeneity and the issue of necrosis in larger organoids. The method presents a technical advance in organoid culture.

      (4) The method has been demonstrated with multiple cell lines which is a strength.

      (5) The manuscript provides high-quality immunostaining for multiple markers.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s acknowledgement of the strengths of this novel platform as a technical advance in organoid culture that reduces heterogeneity and shows potential for higher throughput experiments.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Direct head-to-head comparison with standard organoid culture seems to be missing and may be valuable for benchmarking, ie what can be done with the new method that cannot be done with standard culture and vice versa, ie what are the aspects in which new method could be inferior to the standard.

      In our opinion, it would be extremely difficult to directly compare methods. Most notably, whole brain organoids grow to large and irregular globular shapes, while adherent cortical organoids have a more standardized shape confined by the geometry of a 384well. Moreover, it was not our intention to benchmark this model quantitatively against other culture systems. Rather, we have attempted to characterize the opportunities and limitations of this approach, with a qualitative contrast to other culture methods, as addressed in response to comment 2 of Reviewer 1 above.

      (2) It would be important to further benchmark the throughput, ie what is the success rate in filling and successfully growing the organoids in the entire 384 well plate?

      Figure S1 shows the success rate of organoid formation and stability of the organoid structures over time. In addition, we have added the number of wells that were filled per plate.

      (3) For each NPC line an optimal seeding density was estimated based on the proliferation rate of that NPC line and via visual observation after 6 weeks of culture. It would be important to delineate this protocol in more robust terms, in order to enable reproducibility with different cell lines and amongst the labs.

      Figure S1 provides the relationship between proliferation rate and seeding density, allowing estimation of seeding densities based on the proliferation rate of the NPCs. However, we appreciate the reviewers' feedback and have modified the methods to provide more detail.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Kroeg et al. have introduced a novel method to produce 3D cortical layer formation in hiPSC-derived models, revealing a remarkably consistent topography within compact dimensions. This technique involves seeding frontal cortex-patterned iPSC-derived neural progenitor cells in 384-well plates, triggering the spontaneous assembly of adherent cortical organoids consisting of various neuronal subtypes, astrocytes, and oligodendrocyte lineage cells.

      Strengths:

      Compared to existing brain organoid models, these adherent cortical organoids demonstrate enhanced reproducibility and cell viability during prolonged culture, thereby providing versatile opportunities for high-throughput drug discovery, neurotoxicological screening, and the investigation of brain disorder pathophysiology. This is an important and timely issue that needs to be addressed to improve the current brain organoid systems.

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting the strengths of our novel platform. We appreciate that all three reviewers agree that the adherent cortical organoids presented in this manuscript reliably demonstrate increased reproducibility and longevity. They also commend its potential for higher throughput drug discovery and neurotoxicological/phenotype screening purposes.

      Weaknesses:

      While the authors have provided significant data supporting this claim, several aspects necessitate further characterization and clarification. Mainly, highlighting the consistency of differentiation across different cell lines and standardizing functional outputs are crucial elements to emphasize the future broad potential of this new organoid system for large-scale pharmacological screening.

      We appreciate the feedback and have added more detail on consistency and standardization of functional outputs.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Minor points

      (1) As the preprint is officially part of the eLife review, I have to remark that the preprint which is made available on bioarxiv, suffers from some serious compatibility or format problem: one cannot highlight sentences as in a regular PDF and when trying to copypaste sentences from it jumbled characters are copied to the clipboard.

      The updated version of the paper on bioRxiv should not suffer from these compatibility issues.

      (2) Since the paper is presenting a new method it should briefly describe how each step, including the hiPSC culture was done, the reference to an earlier publication in this case is not sufficient, and this practice is generally best to avoid for methods papers.

      Each step in the culturing process has now been described in the methods.

      (3) The EB stage is insufficiently described. The "2D - 3D - 2D" transitions should be clearly explained.

      The methods section has been rewritten and expanded to include these processes in more detail.

      (4) Is there one FACS sorting in the protocol, or multiple (additional at IPS culture)? What markers each? What is the motivation for sorting and purifying the neural progenitors? Was the culture impure? What was purity? What cell types are expected after sorting, and what is removed?

      Only one FACS sorting step is performed at the NPC stage. This was added as an improvement to our original neural network protocol (Günhanlar et al 2018) to ensure consistency over different hiPSC source cell lines that can yield variable amounts of frontal cortical patterned NPCs. Positive sorting for neural lineage markers CD184 and CD24, and negative sorting for mesenchymal/neural crest CD217 and CD44 glial progenitor markers, according to Yuan et al 2011, ensures frontal-patterned cortical NPCs as confirmed for all batches by immunohistochemistry for SOX2, Nestin and FOXG1. We have added new text to the Methods section to clarify this more explicitly.

      (5) Seeding protocol and parameters are insufficiently described, and from what I read they are poorly defined: "Specifically, the optimal seeding density was determined by visual inspection of the organoids between 28 to 42 days after seeding a range of cell densities in the 384-well plate wells." For a new method, precise, actionable instructions are needed. I may have overlooked those elsewhere, in this case, please clarify these sections.

      The Methods section was rewritten and expanded to describe the methodology in greater detail with more actionable instructions.

      (6) The timeline in Figure 1 is not clearly delineated; I found it hard to understand which figure corresponds to which stage (e.g. facs sorting is not mentioned in the first part of the results but it is part of Figure 1A, neural rosette formation can happen both before and after facs sorting, simply referring to rosettes is not clear). Later parts of the manuscript 
> clearly introduce the terms sorting and seeding in the context of this method, and how ages (days) refer to these time points.

      Figure 1 was adapted to clarify the generation of Neural Progenitor Cells (NPCs) and subsequent seeding of NPCs to generate Adherent Cortical Organoids (ACOs).

      (7) The authors define: "cortical organized defined as a single radial structure." This is not a commonly used definition of organoids, for nomenclature, please see: doi: 10.1038/s41586-022-05219-6 (Pasca et al 2022).

      To clarify, the statement is not meant to reflect a definition of organoids in general, but rather the scoring of proper structure formation for Figure S1C. For discussion on nomenclature, see our response to point 1 of Reviewer 1 in the public review. We changed the wording to be more accurate.

      (8) In Figure S1d, the authors write: "the fraction of structurally intact cultures decreased to 50%", but I'm looking at that graph there seems to be no notable decrease, but huge variability. The authors should quantify claims of decrease by linear regression and an R square. Variation within and the cross-cell lines seem to be large. Also, it is unclear if dots are corresponding to the same wells/plates, in other words: is this a longitudinal experiment? What is the overall success rate? How is success determined? Are there clear criteria? to the same wells/plates, in other words: is this a longitudinal experiment? What is the overall success rate? How is success determined? Are there clear criteria?

      We agree with the reviewer that the claim on fraction of intact cultures decreasing over time to 50% is an overinterpretation due the large variability. We changed the wording in the manuscript to: While some later batches show moderately reduced success rates compared with the earliest batches, properly formed single-structure organoids were still obtained at 40–90% success across all examined time points (Figure S1C), indicating that long-term culture is feasible albeit with variable efficiency. The data are not longitudinal as each dot represents an endpoint of a different batch of organoids, totaling 18 independent batches across the three lines. We have clarified this in the figure legend. Success was defined at the well level as the presence of a single, continuous radial structure occupying the well, without obvious fragmentation or fusion events, as assessed by LIVE/DEAD that also confirmed viability. Wells were scored as successful only when the radial structure showed predominantly live signal with no large necrotic areas. Wells containing multiple radial structures, fused aggregates, or predominantly dead tissue were scored as unsuccessful.

      (9) Figure s1c: the numbering to this panel should be swapped, because it is referenced after other panels in the text. The reference is confusing: "Plotting the interaction between proliferation and the amount of NPCs required to be seeded for the successful generation of adherent cortical organoids" - success is not present in this graph at all? How is that measured?

      Figures S1C and S1D have been adapted to clarify the measure of ‘successful organoid formation’.

      (a) The description of this plot is confusing: "The doubling time of the NPCs explains more than half the variation (r2 = 0.67) of the required seeding density." What else is there? I thought that this was the formula the authors suggested to determine seeding density, but it seems not. Or is "manual inspection" the determinant, and that seems to correlate with this metric?

      Even though the rate of proliferation, measured as doubling time, is the main determinant of the seeding density, it is not the only determinant of the seeding density. For instance, intrinsic differences in differentiation potential could also play a role. Therefore, NPC lines with similar doubling times might still have slightly different optimal seeding densities. We have added clarification of this conclusion to the Results section.

      (b) Seeding density is a key parameter in many in vitro differentiation and culture protocols. This importance however does not mean that this density is attributable to differences in cell proliferation rate. Alternatively, the amount of cells determines the amount of secreted molecules and cell-to-cell contacts.

      Here, when we refer to the cell density, we specifically refer to the cell density needed to generate the ACO. We show that the most important contributor to the variation in ACO formation is the proliferation, measured here as the doubling time. We agree that there are other factors involved such as the secreted molecules, cell-to-cell contacts as well as the ability of a given NPC line to differentiate into a post-mitotic cell.

      (c) Is it mentioned which cell line this experiment corresponds to?

      The data in Figure S1D is from the 3 reported cell lines, as well as 2 clones from a fourth IPS cell line. This is detailed in the Methods section of the proliferation assay.

      (d) Without a more detailed explanation, seeding density and doubling time could be independent variables.

      These two variables are highly correlated as shown in Figure S1D, but it is true that there can be other variables that account for the observed variance, as discussed above in Point 9b.

      (e) In this figure the success rate is not visible at all so I have no idea how the autors arrive at a conclusion about success rate.

      We have adapted the figure legend to reflect which cell lines the dots in Fig. S1D represent. NPC lines can have substantial variation in proliferation rates. The figure reflects data of NPCs of 5 clones of 4 different hiPSC lines (as indicated in the Methods) with different proliferation rates. Also, the ACO success rate (operationally defined uniformly to the data shown in Fig. S1C) was also included.

      (10) Figure 2: Clean spatial segregation seems to be a strength of the system and therefore I would recommend putting more of the relevant microscopy images to the main figure, which are now currently in Figure S4.

      We have adapted Figure 2 accordingly, and included additional representative cortical layering images in Figure S4.

      (11) The variability in interneuron content seems to be significant, as currently presented in the figure. However, this may be due to a special organization. It would first quantify in consecutive rings around the centers whether interneurons have a tendency to be enriched towards the center or the edge of the culture. Maybe this explains the variability that is currently present in Figure s5b.

      We agree that spatial organization of interneurons could, in principle, contribute to variability. In our analysis, however, images were acquired from positions selected by a random sampling grid across the entire culture, rather than from specific central or peripheral regions. Each field contained on average 130.6 ± 16.1 NeuN+ nuclei, which provided a relatively large sampling volume per position. If interneurons were strongly enriched at the center or edge, we would expect systematic differences in interneuron fraction between fields assigned to central versus peripheral grid positions. We did not observe such a pattern in our dataset, suggesting that spatial organization is not the main driver of the observed variability.

      (12) Because in previous figures it seems like there is considerable variability across individual cultures and images here are coming from separate cultures, please use different shapes of the points coming from different cultures/wells, to see if maybe there is a culture-to-culture difference that explains the variability present in the figure.

      We have added different symbols per organoid for the interneuron quantifications and moved this quantification to main Figure 2.

      (13) I believe it is currently the standard error of the mean which is displayed in the figure, which is not an appropriate representation for variability, or the reproducibility across individual data points. SEM quantifies the reproducibility of the mean, not the reproducibility of the individual data points, which matters here. Mean refers to the mean of this quantification experiment and therefore it's not a biological entity. A box plot showing the interquartile range besides the individual data points would be an accurate representation of the spread of the data.

      We agree and have adapted the data, now in Figure 5, accordingly.

      (14) Again, in general, the main figures should contain much more of the quantification, as opposed to just raw images.

      Quantifications have been added in Figure 2 for the GAD67/NeuN for all cell lines as well as a time course quantification of GAD67/NeuN for 1 of the cell lines. In Figure 4, we have added excitatory and inhibitory synaptic quantifications.

      (15) Figure 2F-I the location of the center of the rosette should be marked with a star so that the conclusion about the direction of processes can be established.

      The suggested addition of a marker at the center of each rosette was evaluated but not implemented, because it reduced rather than improved figure clarity.

      (16) Figure 3 b and c:

      High magnification images of single cells, can't show changes in cell type morphology, and one cannot conclude that these cells are present in significant numbers across time. Zoomed-out images or quantification would be necessary for such a claim. The authors already have such images as presented in the next panels, so quantification without new experiments.
> I am uncertain about the T3 supplement here - do these images correspond to the same conditions?

      (a) It is unclear to me why different markers are used in the different panels, namely why NG2 is not used in any of the other images.

      NG2 was used at early developmental time points to show the presence of Oligodendrocyte Precursor Cells (OPCs). At later time points, the focus switched to MBP staining to indicate more mature oligodendrocyte lineage cells. Although NG2 and MBP are not in the same panels, the staining was performed for both antibodies at the same developmental time point (Day 119) as seen in Figure 3C and 3D.

      (b) Color coding in Figure 3G is ambiguous; the use of two blues should be avoided, and the Sub-sub panels should be individually labeled for the color code.

      We agree, and have now used different colors.

      (c) It is unclear if the presence of the t3 molecule is part of the standard procedure or if it was a side experiment to enhance the survival of oligodendrocytes. Are there no oligodendrocytes without? How does T3 affect other cell types, and the general health and differentiation of the cultures?

      Indeed, T3 is essential for oligodendrocyte formation. We did not observe obvious effects on the general health or differentiation potential of the cultures.

      (d) Is the 2ng/ml t3 from day one to the final day?

      Indeed, in the organoids cultured to study oligodendrocyte formation, T3 was added from Day 1. These details have now been clarified in the Methods and Results sections.

      (17) Figure 4:

      (a) Microscopy in this figure is high quality and very convincing about neural maturity.

      (b) The term "cluster" should be avoided. Unclear what it means here, but my best guess is "cells in a frame of view." Cluster is used with a different meaning in electrophysiology.

      This was adapted to ‘neurons in a field of view (FOV)’.

      (c) Panel J: I assume each row corresponds to a single cell? Could this be clarified? Are these selected cells from each frame, or all active cells are represented?

      Indeed, each row corresponds to a single cell, showing all active cells in the frame. This is now clarified in the legend.

      (d) How many Wells do these data correspond to, and in which line it was measured?

      As reported in the legend for Figure 5, these data correspond to 2 wells at Day 61 to which we have now added calcium imaging data from 3 wells from a different batch at Day 100. We have included in the legend that these recordings were from Line 1.

      (e) Panels G to I, again, the use of standard error of the mean is inappropriate and misleading: looking at the error bar one must conclude that there is minimal variation, which is the exact opposite of the conclusions, when one would look at the variability of the raw data points.

      As suggested, the graphs have been adapted as boxplots with interquartile ranges to highlight the distribution of data points.

      (f) It is unclear how many neurons and how many total actively firing neurons are present in the videos analyzed

      All neurons that were active in the field of view and showed at least one calcium event during the ~10 minute recording were included in the analysis. Using this method, we cannot comment on the proportion of neurons that were active from the total amount of neurons present, since the AAV virus we used does not transduce all neurons.

      (g) This figure shows the strength of the method in achieving neural maturity and function. There seems to be that there is considerable activity in the neuronal cultures analyzed. To conclude how reliably the method leads to such mature cultures one would need to measure at least a dozen wells (even if with some simpler and low-resolution method). Concluding reproducibility from one or two hand-picked examples is not possible.

      We agree with the reviewer that the number of wells used for calcium imaging analysis was limited. We are currently working on more advanced methods to increase the throughput of this analysis. However, we’ve now added another timepoint to the calcium imaging data in Figure 5 from an independent batch of 3 adherent cortical organoids, which demonstrates continued robust activity at Day 100, as well as Day 61.

      Methods:

      (1) Stem cell culture. The artist described that line 3 is grown on MEFs. Is this true for the other two lines, furthermore were they cultured in identical conditions?

      Line 2 and 3 were not grown on MEFs. We specifically chose different sources of NPCs to reflect the robust nature of the differentiation protocol. We have recently also adapted the protocol from Line 3 NPCs to confirm that the protocol also works starting from hiPSCs grown in feeder-free conditions in StemFlex medium, by adapting NPC differentiation according to our recent publication in Frontiers in Cellular Neuroscience (Eigenhuis et al 2023).

      (2) "NPCs were differentiated to adherent cortical organoids between passages 3 and 7 after sorting." Please clarify this sentence. I assume it refers to the first facs sorting of the protocol, but a section is not sufficiently detailed.

      We have adapted the methods to clarify that the FACS purification step occurs at the NPC stage.

      (3) I didn't fully understand: It seems to be that there are two steps of fact sorting involved, one after passage 3 and one after week 4. This should be represented in the graphical abstract of Figure 1.

      As outlined above, there is only 1 FACS sorting step at NPC stage. We have adapted this in the Methods and in the graphical abstract.

      (4) Neural differentiation: The authors write that optimal seeding density was determined by visual inspection of the organoids - this is.

      We have clarified the Methods section to better explain the process of optimizing the seeding density for each NPC line to generate the ACOs.

      (5) What does the following sentence mean: "Cells were refreshed every 2-3 days." Does it mean in replacement of the complete media? How much Media was added to the Wells?

      This is a very good point that we have now clarified in the Methods, as full replenishment of media is neither feasible, nor desirable. From the total volume of 110 µl per well, 80 µl is taken out and replaced with 85 µl to compensate for evaporation.

      (6) Calcium imaging: can the authors explain the decision to move the cultures one day before imaging into brainphys neural differentiation medium? In 3D organoid protocols, brainphys is gradually introduced to avoid culture shock (very different composition), and used for multiple months to enhance neural differentiation. For recording electrophysiological activity, artificial CSF is the most common choice.

      Indeed, for whole cell recordings of 2D neural networks as performed in Günhanlar et al 2018, we used gradual transition to aCSF. For the current ACOs, we found that using BrainPhys from the start of organoid differentiation prevents structure formation, probably because of increased speed of maturation disrupting proliferation and organization of radial glia differentiation. However, by changing the media to BrainPhys just one day before recording (reflecting a gradual change as not all medium is fully replenished and easier than switching to aCSF during recording), we saw greatly improved neuronal activity.

      (7) Statistical analysis : As I pointed out before, the standard error of the mean is not an appropriate metric to represent the variability of the data. It is meant to represent the variability of the estimated average. The following thought experiment should make it clear: I measured the expression of a gene in my system. 50 times I measured 0 and 50 times I measured 100. The average is 50, but of course it is a very bad representation of the data because no such data points exist with that value. Yet the standard error of the mean would be plus minus 5.

      We have revised Figures 5C–5D to boxplots displaying the interquartile range with all individual data points overlaid, which more accurately represents the variability in the dataset.

      Discussion

      (1) The discussion focuses on human cortical development, however, the methods presented by the authors entail dissociation and replating through multiple stages not part of brain development. I see the approach as more valuable as a possibly reliable method that generates both diverse and mature neural cultures.

      We have revised the Discussion to avoid explicitly invoking an in vitro recapitulation of human cortical development. Nevertheless, given that the NPCs from which the organoids originate exhibit frontal cortical identity, coupled with the timely emergence of cortical neuronal markers and rudimentary cortical layering, we are increasingly confident that the development of these cultures most likely mirrors that of the frontal cortex. To further substantiate this hypothesis, single-cell RNA sequencing experiments will be conducted in the future to provide additional insights.

      (2) One of the major claims of the authors is that the method is very reproducible. However, there is almost no data on reproducibility throughout the paper. Mostly single, high magnification images are presented, which therefore represent a small region of a single well of a single batch of a single cell line. Based on the data presented it is not possible to evaluate the reproducibility of the method.

      We agree that the original version did not sufficiently document reproducibility. To address this, we have refined and expanded our presentation of reproducibility data. The previous success-rate panel (original Figure S1D) has been moved and adapted as the new Figure S1C. In this updated version, each dot still represents the endpoint success rate of an independent batch, but dot size now scales with batch size (10–40 organoids), and the legend specifies the total numbers of organoids analyzed per line (line 1: n=248; line 2: n=70; line 3: n=70). Together with the distribution of success rates between ~40– 90% across multiple time points and three iPSC lines, this more detailed representation allows readers to directly assess the robustness of line-to-line and batch-to-batch performance. In addition, new time course quantifications of interneuron proportion (Figure 2G,H), synaptic marker densities (Figure 4H, I), and late-stage calcium imaging (Figure 5C,D,E) further demonstrate that key structural and functional read-outs show overlapping ranges across lines and independent differentiations, reinforcing that the method yields reproducible core phenotypes despite some biological variability.

      (3) The data presented is very promising, and it suggests that the authors derived optimal conditions for neural differentiation and neural culture diversification. I am confident that the authors can show that reproducibility, at least in a practical sense (e.g. in wells that form a culture) is high.

      Overall, this is a very promising and exciting work, that I am looking forward to reading in a mature manuscript.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Direct head-to-head comparison with standard organoid culture seems to be missing and may be valuable for benchmarking, ie what can be done with the new method that cannot be done with standard culture and vice versa, ie what are the aspects in which new method could be inferior to the standard.

      We have now more clearly elaborated the differences with other methods. As addressed in our response to point 2 of Reviewer 1 in the public reviews, there are several limitations and advantages to the adherent cortical organoids model listed as follows:

      Advantages of adherent cortical organoids:

      (1) Higher order self-organized structure formation, including segregation of deeper and upper cortical layers.

      (2) Longevity: adherent cortical organoids can be successfully kept in culture for at least 1 year, whereas 2D cultures typically deteriorate after 8-12 weeks.

      (3) Maturity, including the formation of dendritic mushroom spines and robust electrophysiological activity.

      (4) Cell type diversity including a more physiological ratio of inhibitory and excitatory neurons (10% GAD67+/NeuN+ neurons in adherent cortical organoids, vs 1% in 2D neural networks), and the emergence of oligodendrocyte lineage cells.

      On the other hand, limitations of adherent cortical organoids compared to 2D neural network cultures include:

      (1) Culture times for organoids are much longer than for 2D cultures and the method can therefore be more laborious and more expensive.

      (2) Whole cell patch clamping is not easily feasible in adherent cortical organoids because of the restrictive geometry of 384-well plates.

      (2) It would be important to further benchmark the throughput, ie what is the success rate in filling and successfully growing the organoids in the entire 384 well plate?

      We have addressed this question in the current version of Fig. S1C, in which multiple batches of organoids of all three lines were scored for their success rate. The graph reflects the proportion of properly formed organoids of +/- 400 seeded wells scored at different timepoints, in which each timepoint is a different batch. As mentioned in the response to Reviewer 1, we have also added data on the number of organoids seeded per line in the figure legend.

      (3) For each NPC line an optimal seeding density was estimated based on the proliferation rate of that NPC line and via visual observation after 6 weeks of culture. It would be important to delineate this protocol in more robust terms, in order to enable reproducibility with different cell lines and amongst the labs.

      As outlined in the response to Reviewer 1, we have clarified the Methods and Discussion sections on seeding density and proliferation rate.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Kroeg et al. have introduced a novel method to produce 3D cortical layer formation in hiPSC-derived models, revealing a remarkably consistent topography within compact dimensions. This technique involves seeding frontal cortex-patterned iPSC-derived neural progenitor cells in 384-well plates, triggering the spontaneous assembly of adherent cortical organoids consisting of various neuronal subtypes, astrocytes, and oligodendrocyte lineage cells. Compared to existing brain organoid models, these adherent cortical organoids demonstrate enhanced reproducibility and cell viability during prolonged culture, thereby providing versatile opportunities for high-throughput drug discovery, neurotoxicological screening, and the investigation of brain disorder pathophysiology. This is an important and timely issue that needs to be addressed to improve the current brain organoid systems. While the authors have provided significant data supporting this claim, several aspects necessitate further characterization and clarification. Particularly, highlighting the consistency of differentiation across different cell lines and standardizing functional outputs are crucial elements to emphasize the future broad potential of this new organoid system for large-scale pharmacological screening.

      (1) Considering the emergence of astrocyte markers (GFAP, S100b) and upper layer neuron marker (CUX1) around Day 60, the overall differentiation speed is significantly faster compared to other forebrain organoid protocols. Are these accelerated sequences of neurodevelopment consistent across different hiPSC lines?

      As shown in Fig. S5, astrocytes are present around Day 60 for all three lines. For comparison with other organoid protocols, an important consideration is that the timeline for these organoids starts at NPC plating, while for other protocols timing often starts from the hiPSC stage. We have clarified the timeline in the graphical abstract in Figure 1A and in the Methods.

      (2) The calcium imaging results in Figure 4G were recorded at a single time point, Day 61, a relatively early time window compared to other forebrain organoid protocols (more than 100 days, PMID: 31257131; PMID: 36120104). Are the neurons in adherent cortical organoids functionally mature enough around Day 61? How consistent is this functional activity across different cell lines and independent differentiation batches?

      As discussed above in Point 1, it is important to consider that the specified timeline starts from NPC plating. In analogy to 2D neural networks, robust neuronal activity can be observed after ~8 weeks in culture. In addition, we have now added calcium imaging data for an additional batch of organoids at Day 100 in Figure 5, which exhibit comparable levels of neuronal activity as observed on Day 61.

      (3) Along the same line, Various cell types, such as oligodendrocytes and astrocytes, are believed to influence neuronal maturation. Therefore, longitudinal studies until the late stage are necessary to observe changes in electrophysiological activity based on the degree of neuronal maturation (at least two more later time points, such as 100 days and 150 days).

      As described in the previous points, we have now included a Day 100 time point in the calcium imaging data, in addition to the recordings at Day 61 (Figure 5C-E).

      (4) The authors assert that heterogeneity among organoids has been diminished using the human adherent cortical organoids protocol. However, there is inadequate quantitative data to prove the consistency of neuronal activities between different wells. Therefore, experiments quantifying the degree of heterogeneity between organoids, such as through methods like calcium imaging, are necessary to determine if neuron activity occurs consistently across each organoid well.

      We agree with the review and have added several quantitative experiments: a) we’ve added another timepoint to the calcium imaging data in Figure 5 from an independent batch of 3 adherent cortical organoids, which demonstrates continued robust activity at day 100, as well as day 61; b) we added synapse quantification in Figure 4, and c) interneuron quantification in Figure 2. We are currently also pursuing high throughput measures of activity to assess the longitudinal activity of ACOs in a larger number of wells. This way we can more definitively quantify the time-dependent variance in organoid activity.

      (5) Is this platform applicable to other functional measurements for neuronal activity, such as the MEA system? When observing the morphology of neurons formed in organoids, they appear to extend axons and dendrites in a consistent direction, suggesting a radial structure that demonstrates high reproducibility across wells. A culture system where neurons are arranged with such consistency in directionality could be highly beneficial for experiments utilizing the MEA system to assess parameters such as the speed of electrical activity transmission and stimulus-response. Therefore, there seems to be a need for a more detailed explanation of the utility of the structural characteristics of the culture system.

      The ACO platform is indeed suitable for MEA recordings. We are in the process of engineering the required geometry using HD-MEA systems through specialized inserts to generate ACOs on MEA systems.

      (6) In Figure 2E-I, authors suggest morphological diversity of GFAP+/S100b+ astrocyte, but the imaging data presented in Figure F-I is only based on GFAP immunoreactivity.

      Since GFAP is also expressed in radial glial cells at this stage (Figure 2I), many fibrous astrocytes and interlaminar astrocytes are likely radial glial neural progenitor cells instead of astrocytes. It appears necessary to perform additional staining using astrocyte markers such as S100B or outer radial glia markers such as HOPX to demonstrate that the figure depicts subtype-specific morphologies of astrocytes.

      In Figure 2M, we stained for GFAP and PAX6 to mark radial glia that look different than the astrocyte morphologies we describe in Figure 2J-L. We see a large overlap in GFAP and S100B staining in Figure 2I, in which most GFAP+ cells are double positive for S100B (yellow) that is more consistent with astrocyte maturation than radial glia. Furthermore, we have not seen PAX6 staining outside the dense edges of the center of the ACO.

      (7) In Figure 4D, the axon appears to exhibit directionality. Additional explanation regarding the organization of the axon is necessary. Further research utilizing sparse staining to examine the morphology of single neurons seems warranted.

      The polarized directionality of the axons is something we indeed have also noticed. We are looking into options to further investigate this intriguing property of the ACOs.

      (8) Figure 1E-F only showed cell viability in the early stages around Day 40-50. To demonstrate the superior long-term viability of ACO culture, it appears necessary to illustrate the ratio of dead cells to live cells over the course of a time course.

      Figure S1B shows LIVE/DEAD staining for ACOs of all three lines, revealing minimal DEAD staining at Day 56. A longitudinal time course experiment was not performed, however the line- and batch-specific quantifications over developmental timepoints in Figure S1C provide an indication of the robust long-term viability of the ACOs.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this fMRI study, the authors wished to assess neural mechanisms supporting flexible temporal construals. For this, human participants learned a story consisting of fifteen events. During fMRI, events were shown to them, and participants were instructed to consider the event from "an internal" or from "an external" perspective. The authors found distinct patterns of brain activity in the posterior parietal cortex (PPC) and anterior hippocampus for the internal and the external viewpoint. Specifically, activation in the posterior parietal cortex positively correlated with distance during the external-perspective task, but negatively during the internal-perspective task. The anterior hippocampus positively correlated with distance in both perspectives. The authors conclude that allocentric sequences are stored in the hippocampus, whereas egocentric sequences are supported by the parietal cortex.

      We thank the reviewer for the accurate summary of our study.

      Strengths:

      The research topic is fascinating, and very few labs in the world are asking the question of how time is represented in the human brain. Working hypotheses have been recently formulated, and the work tackles them from the perspective of construals theory.

      We appreciate the reviewer's positive and encouraging comments.

      Weaknesses:

      Although the work uses two distinct psychological tasks, the authors do not elaborate on the cognitive operationalization the tasks entail, nor the implication of the task design for the observed neural activation.

      We thank the reviewer for bringing this issue to our attention. In the revised manuscript, we have added a paragraph to the Discussion acknowledging this potential limitation of the study. Please see our response below.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Overall, I thank the authors for providing clear responses and much-needed detail on their original work, which enables a better understanding of their perspectives. I still have some detailed questions about the reported work, which I provide below. It could help clarify the work for a more general audience and its replicability by the community.

      We thank the reviewer for their positive evaluation of our previous revisions.

      Main general concern:

      I have one remaining core concern, which I distill as being a very different take on the usefulness of task design with neuroimaging. This concern follows from the authors' response to my original comment, which suggested possible confounds in fMRI data analysis and interpretation, as differences in task design and behavioral outcomes were not incorporated in the analytical approach.

      The authors confirmed that "there is a substantial difference between the two tasks" but argue that these differences are not relevant seing that "the primary goal of this study was not to directly compare these tasks to isolate a specific cognitive component " However, the authors do perform such contrasts in their analysis (e.g. p. 10: "We first directly contrasted the activity level between external- and internal-perspective tasks in the time window of...") and build inferences on brain activation from them (e.g., p. 10: "Compared with the internal-perspective task, the externalperspective task specifically activated the...").

      To clarify, my original concern was not about comparing neural activity in response to the two tasks but about the brain activity generated by two distinct tasks, which aim to reveal fundamentally distinct neural processes. The authors' response raises several concerns about the theoretical, methodological and empirical foundation of the work that are beyond the scope of a single empirical study and too long to detail here. Cognitive neuroscience relies on tasks to infer neural processes; this is the fertile and essential ground for using behavior in neuroscience to get to a mechanistic understanding of brain functions (e.g., Krakauer et al., 2017). In short, task design is fundamental because it shapes what neural processes are being investigated. Any inferences about brain activity recorded while a participant performs a task result from manipulated variables that should be under the control of the experimenter. Acknowledging that two tasks are distinct is acknowledging that different (neural) processes may govern their resolution. My initial remark was meant to highlight that, from basic signal detection theory, a same/different task and a temporal order task may not yield the same kind of basic biases and decision-making processes; these are far below and more basic than the posited sophisticated representations herein (construals, perspective taking).

      In short, the general approach is far coarser than the level of interpretational granularity being pushed forward in the paper would suggest.

      We greatly appreciate the reviewer’s comments and agree that this is a very fair point. We acknowledge that the two tasks differ in their underlying decision-making processes. In the revised manuscript, we have added a paragraph at the end of the Discussion to explicitly acknowledge this limitation and to outline possible avenues for future research (Page 23).

      “One limitation of the present study is that the external- and internal-perspective tasks differed not only in the type of perspective-taking they were intended to elicit, but also in their underlying decision-making processes. The external-perspective task explicitly required participants to compare two events with respect to external temporal landmarks and judge whether they occurred in the same or different parts of the day (i.e., a same/different judgment), whereas the internalperspective task explicitly required participants to project themselves into a reference event and judge whether the target event occurred in the future or the past relative to that reference (i.e., a temporal-order judgment). This task design ensured that participants adopted two distinct perspectives on the event series, but at the expense of coherence in the cognitive operations required to make the two types of judgments. One alternative approach would be to more closely align the response demands of the two tasks by drawing on McTaggart’s (1908) A-series and Bseries distinction: in the external-perspective task, participants could judge whether the target event occurred before or after the reference event (i.e., a before/after judgment), whereas in the internal-perspective task they could judge whether the target event occurred in the past or future relative to the reference event (i.e., a past/future judgment). Although such a design would improve coherence in the underlying decision-making processes (i.e., both are temporal-order judgments), it would reduce experimental control over the perspective-taking manipulation. For example, before/after judgments could still be made from an internal perspective. Future studies are therefore needed to determine whether findings obtained from these two task designs converge.”

      Additional clarifications:

      Intro/theory

      In this revised MS, the authors provided some clarifications of their theoretical perspective in the introduction. From my standpoint, the motivation remains insufficiently precise for a scientific report. Some theoretical aspects, such as construals or perspective taking remain evasive in relation to ego and allocentric representations. A couple of paragraphs dedicated to explaining what the authors mean precisely when using these terms would greatly help to situate the validity of the working hypothesis. In the absence of clear definitions, it remains difficult to evaluate what is being tested. For instance, what do the authors mean by "time construal"? How is a time construal the same or not as a "temporal distance" or a "temporal sequence"? This would greatly help the readership.

      Additionally, some assertions are not clearly identified or fairly attributed. For instance, the assertion that EST provides a means to spatialize time is the authors' point of view or interpretation of this work, not an original proposition of the theory. Another example is McTaggart's metaphysics on time series (in the ontology of time in physics) "echoed" in linguistics; it has effectively been proposed and popularized by L. Boroditskty. The prospective and retrospective views of time should not be attributed to Tsao et al but to Hicks or Block in the 70's, who studied the psychology of time in humans.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for this criticism, which prompted us to clarify the relevant concepts in our manuscript. In the revised version, we made the following three main changes to the Introduction.

      In the second paragraph of the Introduction (page 3), we clarify that event segmentation theory is independent of, but related to, the spatial construal of time hypothesis. We also clarify what we mean by time construals and explain that the two temporal components—duration and sequence—can be represented within such time construals, rather than constituting time construals themselves. These revisions were intended to prevent potential misunderstandings for the reader. In addition, we incorporated Boroditsky’s contributions relevant to this framework:

      “One solution, which might be unique to humans, is to conceptualize time in terms of space (i.e., the spatial construal of time; e.g., Clark, 1973; Traugott, 1978; Lakoff & Johnson, 1980). Within this framework, time is usually first segmented into events—the basic temporal entities that observers conceive as having a beginning and an end (Zacks & Tversky, 2001). These temporal entities are then ordered in space, such that events occurring at different times can be maintained in working memory, allowing them to be flexibly accessed from different perspectives and easily referenced during communication (e.g., Casasanto & Boroditsky, 2008; Núñez & Cooperrider, 2013; Bender & Beller, 2014; Abrahamse et al., 2014; Figure 1A). The two core temporal components—duration and sequence—can be readily represented in such time construals.”

      In the third paragraph of the Introduction (pages 3-4), we acknowledge the contributions of earlier behavioral studies on prospective and retrospective timing by citing the work suggested by the reviewer (Block & Zakay, 1997), which indicates that two distinct cognitive systems underlie timing processes. These behavioral findings converge with the conclusions of more recent neuroimaging studies:

      “Unlike prospective timing tracking the continuous passage of time, durations in time construals are event-based (Sinha & Gärdenfors, 2014): the interval boundaries are constituted by events, and the event durations reflect their span (Figure 1A). Accumulating evidence suggests that distinct cognitive systems underlie these two types of duration (e.g., Block & Zakay, 1997). The motor and attentional system—particularly the supplementary motor area—has been associated with prospective timing (e.g., Protopapa et al., 2019; Nani et al., 2019; De Kock et al., 2021; Robbe, 2023), whereas the episodic memory system—particularly the hippocampus—is considered to support the representation of duration embedded within an event sequence (e.g., Barnett et al., 2014; Thavabalasingam et al., 2018; see also the comprehensive review by Lee et al., 2020).”

      Block, R. A., & Zakay, D. (1997). Prospective and retrospective duration judgments: A meta-analytic review. Psychonomic Bulletin & Review, 4(2), 184-197.

      In the fifth paragraph of the Introduction (page 5), we added a sentence to clarify the relationship between allocentric and egocentric reference frames and perspective taking:

      “However, the neural mechanisms that enable the brain to generate distinct construals of an event sequence remain largely unknown. Valuable insights may be drawn from research in the spatial domain, which posits the existence of stable allocentric representations that are independent of viewpoint, from which variable egocentric representations corresponding to different perspectives can be generated.”

      Methods:

      While more detail is provided in the Methods, some additional detail would be helpful to enable the replication of this work. For instance,

      - The table reports a sequence of phrases with assigned durations. Are the event phrases actual sentences given to participants? If so, how were participants made aware of the duration of the events, seeing that these sentence parts do not provide time information?

      We apologize that we did not make this clear. The full text used during the reading phase of learning has already been provided in Figure 1—source data 1, which includes the information about event durations. In the revised manuscript, we now explicitly refer to this information in the Methods section (page 38): In the reading phase, participants read a narrative describing the whole ritual on a computer screen twice (Figure 1—source data 1).

      - One of my original questions was about the narrative. In the Methods section, the authors state that participants read a text. Providing the full text would be helpful, also as a sanity check for sequentiality.

      As clarified in the previous response, the texts are provided in Figure 1—source data 1, which illustrates the texts for both even- and odd-numbered participants.

      - In the imagination phase, the authors introduce proportionality between imagination and experience (p. 37). What scale was used? What motivated it?

      We thank the reviewer for bringing this issue to our attention. In this study, participants did not directly experience the events; instead, they learned the event information through narrative reading or imagination to ensure experimental control and efficiency. As clarified in the Methods section, the ratio between imagination duration and actual event duration was 30 seconds to 1 hour. In the revised manuscript, we have further explained our motivation for this design choice (page 39):

      Here, we let participants learn the event information through narrative reading or imagination. Compared to learning through actual experience, this approach prioritizes experimental control and efficiency. The timing of the events is compressed, akin to the process of retrospectively recalling our experiences, in which we mentally traverse events without requiring the actual time they originally took. However, future studies may be needed to investigate whether the encoding of events from first- and second-hand experience differs.

      Results:

      - p. 10: the interpretation of the data on chunking and boundary effects should be properly referenced to e.g. Davachi's published work.

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting Davachi’s important work on event boundaries. We have appropriately cited these studies in the revised manuscript (page 10), as reflected in the following passage: This pattern can be interpreted as a categorical effect: sequential distances within the same part of the day were perceived as shorter (i.e., a chunking effect), whereas distances spanning different parts of the day were perceived as longer (i.e., a boundary effect). Similar boundary- or chunking-related effects on event cognition have been reported in previous studies (e.g., Ezzyat & Davachi, 2011; DuBrow & Davachi, 2013; Radvansky & Zacks, 2017).

      Ezzyat, Y., & Davachi, L. (2011). What constitutes an episode in episodic memory?. Psychological Science, 22(2), 243-252.

      DuBrow, S., & Davachi, L. (2013). The influence of context boundaries on memory for the sequential order of events. Journal of Experimental Psychology: General, 142(4), 1277.

      Radvansky, G. A., & Zacks, J. M. (2017). Event boundaries in memory and cognition. Current Opinion in Behavioral Sciences, 17, 133-140.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Xu et al. used fMRI to examine the neural correlates associated with retrieving temporal information from an external compared to internal perspective ('mental time watching' vs. 'mental time travel'). Participants first learned a fictional religious ritual composed of 15 sequential events of varying durations. They were then scanned while they either (1) judged whether a target event happened in the same part of the day as a reference event (external condition); or (2) imagined themselves carrying out the reference event and judged whether the target event occurred in the past or will occur in the future (internal condition). Behavioural data suggested that the perspective manipulation was successful: RT was positively correlated with sequential distance in the external perspective task, while a negative correlation was observed between RT and sequential distance for the internal perspective task. Neurally, the two tasks activated different regions, with the external task associated with greater activity in the supplementary motor area and supramarginal gyrus, and the internal condition with greater activity in default mode network regions. Of particular interest, only a cluster in the posterior parietal cortex demonstrated a significant interaction between perspective and sequential distance, with increased activity in this region for longer sequential distances in the external task but increased activity for shorter sequential distances in the internal task. Only a main effect of sequential distance was observed in the hippocampus head, with activity being positively correlated with sequential distance in both tasks. No regions exhibited a significant interaction between perspective and duration, although there was a main effect of duration in the hippocampus body with greater activity for longer durations, which appeared to be driven by the internal perspective condition. On the basis of these findings, the authors suggest that the hippocampus may represent event sequences allocentrically, whereas the posterior parietal cortex may process event sequences egocentrically.

      We sincerely appreciate the reviewers for providing an accurate, comprehensive, and objective summary of our study.

      Strengths:

      The topic of egocentric vs. allocentric processing has been relatively under-investigated with respect to time, having traditionally been studied in the domain of space. As such, the current study is timely and has the potential to be important for our understanding of how time is represented in the brain in the service of memory. The study is well thought out and the behavioural paradigm is, in my opinion, a creative approach to tackling the authors' research question. A particular strength is the implementation of an imagination phase for the participants while learning the fictional religious ritual. This moves the paradigm beyond semantic/schema learning and is probably the best approach besides asking the participants to arduously enact and learn the different events with their exact timings in person. Importantly, the behavioural data point towards successful manipulation of internal vs. external perspective in participants, which is critical for the interpretation of the fMRI data. The use of syllable length as a sanity check for RT analyses as well as neuroimaging analyses is also much appreciated.

      We thank the reviewer for the positive and encouraging comments.

      Suggestions:

      The authors have done a commendable job addressing my previous comments. In particular, the additional analyses elucidating the potential contribution of boundary effects to the behavioural data, the impact of incorporating RT into the fMRI GLMs, and the differential contributions of RT and sequential distance to neural activity (i.e., in PPC) are valuable and strengthen the authors' interpretation of their findings.

      My one remaining suggestion pertains to the potential contribution of boundary effects. While the new analyses suggest that the RT findings are driven by sequential distance and duration independent of a boundary effect (i.e., Same vs. Different factor), I'm wondering whether the same applies to the neural findings? In other words, have the authors run a GLM in which the Same vs. Different factor is incorporated alongside distance and duration?

      We thank the reviewer for their positive evaluation of our previous revisions and are pleased that the additional analyses adequately address the boundary effects in the behavioral data and the RT effects in the neural data.

      With respect to boundary effects in the neural data, we followed the reviewer’s suggestion and constructed a more complex GLM that incorporated the Same/Different part of the day as an additional regressors modulating the target events. Importantly, the same PPC region continued to show an interaction effect between Task Type and Sequential Distance. We have added this important control analysis in our revised manuscript (Pages 13–14):

      “To further assess whether the observed PPC reactivation can be attributed to boundary or chunking effects introduced by the Parts of the Day, as well as other behavioral outputs, we performed an additional control analysis. Using a more complex first-level model, we included two extra regressors modulating the target events in both internal- and external-perspective tasks, alongside Sequential Distance and Duration: (1) Same/Different parts of the day (coded as 1/−1) and (2) Future/Past (coded as 1/−1). Even with these additional controls, the same PPC region remained the strongest area across the entire brain, showing an interaction effect between Task Type and Sequential Distance, although the cluster size was slightly reduced (voxel-level p < 0.001; clusterlevel FWE-corrected p = 0.054).”

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      We thank the reviewers for their enthusiasm and insightful suggestions. Our responses to specific concerns and questions are detailed below.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      The authors use Flow cytometry and scRNA seq to identify and characterize the defect in gdT17 cell development from HEB f/f, Vav-icre (HEB cKO), and Id3 germline-deficient mice. HEB cKO mice showed defects in the gdT17 program at an early stage, and failed to properly upregulate expression of Id3 along with other genes downstream of TCR signaling. Id3KO mice showed a later defect in maturation. The results together indicate HEB and Id3 act sequentially during gdT17 development. The authors further showed that HEB and TCR signaling synergize to upregulate Id3 expression in the Scid-adh DN3-like T cell line. Analysis of previously published Chi-seq data revealed binding of HEB (and Egr2) at overlapping regulatory regions near Id3 in DN3 cells.

      The study provides insight into mechanisms by which HEB and Id3 act to mediate gdT17 specification and maturation. The work is well performed and clearly presented. We only have minor comments.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript by Selvaratnam et al. defines how the transcription factor HEB integrates with TCR signaling to regulate Id3 expression in the context of gdT17 maturation in the fetal thymus. Using conditional HEB ablation driven by Vav Cre, flow cytometry, scRNA-seq, and reanalysis of ChIP-seq data the authors, provide evidence for a sequential model in which HEB and TCR-induced Egr2 cooperatively upregulate Id3, enabling gdT17 maturation and limiting diversion to the ab lineages. The work provides an important mechanistic insight into how the E/ID-protein axis coordinates gd T cell specification and effector maturation.

      Strengths include:

      (1) The proposed model that HEB primes, TCR induces, and Id3 stabilizes gdT17 cells in embryonal development is elegant and consistent with the findings.

      (2) The choice of animal models and the study of a precise developmental window.

      (3) The cross-validation of flow, scRNA-seq, and ChIP-seq reanalyses strengthens the conclusions.

      (4) The study clarifies the dual role of Id3, first as an HEB-dependent maturation factor for gdT17 cells, and as a suppressor of diversion to the ab lineages.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The ChIP-seq reanalysis indicates overlapping HEB, E2A, and Egr2 peaks ~60 kb upstream of Id3. Given that the Egr2 data are not generated using the same thymocyte subsets, some form of validation should be considered for the co-binding of HEB and Egr2, potentially ChIP-qPCR in sorted gdT17 progenitors.

      We agree that this is a valid concern and continue to work on confirming the mechanism from several other angles. Validating HEB/E2A and Egr2 co-binding in gdT17 cell progenitors by ChIP-qPCR would/will be a very precise and definitive experiment, but it will be very challenging to perform, in part due to the low numbers of gdT17 precursors in the fetal thymus (note the y-axis scales in Fig. 1F, J). As a complementary approach, we have analyzed additional ChIP-seq data for HEB/E2A binding in Rag2<sup>-/-</sup> DN3 cells retrovirally transduced with the KN6 gdTCR cultured with stroma expressing the weak KN6 ligand T10 for 4 days. This analysis revealed that the binding of HEB/E2A on those sites persisted after weak gdTCR signaling, strengthening the likelihood that concurrent binding of HEB/E2A and Egr2 occurs during this developmental transition. We noted that HEB/E2A binding was slightly dampened in Rag2<sup>-/-</sup> DN3 + gdTCR cells relative to Rag2<sup>-/-</sup> DN3 cells, consistent with the induction of Id3 and subsequent Id3-mediated disruption of E protein binding. We also located HEB/E2A and Egr binding sites in close proximity in the two regions that shared peaks between HEB/E2A and Egr2 analyses (HE1 and HE2), in line with the potential participation of these two transcription factors in an enhanceosome binding complex.

      Furthermore, we examined the chromatin landscape of the Id3 locus by sorting WT DN3 and DN4 cells, as well as Rag2<sup>-/-</sup> DN3 cells to provide a genuine pre-selection context, and performing ATAC-seq (Figure 7–suppl 7A). Given the known ability of E2A and HEB to induce chromatin remodeling, we also examined accessibility in DN3 and DN4 cells from HEB cKO mice. Alignment of ATAC-seq and ChIP-seq peaks in the Id3 locus revealed accessibility of HE1 and HE2 in Rag2<sup>-/-</sup>, WT DN3, and WT DN4 cells. However, accessibility of HE1 and HE2 was dampened in HEB cKO cells, especially at the DN3 stage, suggesting that HEB may be involved in remodeling the Id3 locus, resulting in a poised state that enables TCR-dependent transcription factors to induce Id3 proportionally to TCR signal strength. These data are now presented as a new “Figure 7 – figure supplement 1” with corresponding Results, Discussion, and Methods updates.

      Our next story will be focused on a finer dissection of the Id3 cis-regulatory elements and their combinatorial regulation by HEB/E2A and other transcription factors, and how they relate to specific signaling pathways. For this study, we will modify the language regarding Egr2 to reflect the open questions that still remain to be addressed.

      (2) E2A expression is not affected in HEB-deficient cells, raising the question of partial compensation, a point that should be specifically discussed.

      This confounding factor is always an issue with E proteins. We have now added a section to the discussion that highlights previous literature and relates it to our findings.

      (3) All experiments are done at E18, when fetal gdT17 development predominates. The discussion could address whether these mechanisms extend to neonatal or adult gdT17 subsets.

      In our 2017 paper (PMID 29222418) we showed that HEB cKO mice have defects in the production of functional gdT17 cells in fetal and neonatal thymus and in the adult periphery (in lungs and spleen). While the adult thymus does not support the development of fully functional innate gd T cells, it does contain gdTCR+ cells that have activated the Sox-Maf-Rorc network (Yang 2023, PMID 37815917). It will be very interesting to assess the impact of HEB loss on these cells, and we are actively pursuing this goal. For now, we will add a paragraph to the discussion addressing what we know from previous work and what is yet to be learned.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors of this manuscript have addressed a key concept in T cell development: how early thymus gd T cell subsets are specified and the elements that govern gd T17 versus other gd T cell subsets or ab T cell subsets are specified. They show that the transcriptional regulator HEB/Tcf12 plays a critical role in specifying the gd T17 lineage and, intriguingly, that it upregulates the inhibitor Id3, which is later required for further gd T17 maturation.

      Strengths:

      The conclusions drawn by the authors are amply supported by a detailed analysis of various stages of T cell maturation in WT and KO mouse strains at the single cell level, both phenotypically, by flow cytometry for various diagnostic surface markers, and transcriptionally, by single cell sequencing. Their conclusions are balanced and well supported by the data and citations of previous literature.

      Weaknesses:

      I actually found this work to be quite comprehensive. I have a few suggestions for additional analyses the authors could explore that are unrelated to the predominant conclusions of the manuscript, but I failed to find major flaws in the current work.

      I note that HEB is expressed in many hematopoietic lineages from the earliest progenitors and throughout T cell development. It is also noteworthy that abortive gamma and delta TCR rearrangements have been observed in early NK cells and ILCs, suggesting that, particularly in early thymic development, specification of these lineages may have lower fidelity. It might prove interesting to see whether their single-cell sequencing or flow data reveal changes in the frequency of these other T-cell-related lineages. Is it possible that HEB is playing a role not only in the fidelity of gdT17 cell specification, but also perhaps in the separation of T cells from NK cells and ILCs or the frequency of DN1, DN2, and DN3 cells? Perhaps their single-cell sequencing data or flow analyses could examine the frequency of these cells? That minor caveat aside, I find this to be an extremely exciting body of work.

      Excellent question, and the underlying answer is yes, loss of HEB renders the cells more open to divergence to non-T lineages, even at the DN3 stage. Although our datasets did not reveal those cells, we have examined this question previously. In our 2011 paper (Braunstein, 2011, PMID 21189289) where we identified “DN1-like” cells arising from HEB-/- DN3 cells in OP9-DL1 co-cultures. These cells responded to IL-15 and IL-7 by differentiating into cytotoxic NK-like cells. We did not detect TCRb rearrangements but did not look for gdTCR rearrangements. Subsequently, multiple papers from other labs showed that ILC2 were greatly expanded in the thymus using Id-overexpression transgenic mice and HEB/E2A-double deficient mice (Miyazaki, 2023, PMID 28514688; Miyazaki, 2025, PMID 39904558; Berrett, 2019, PMID 31852728; Qian, 2019, PMID 30898894; Peng, 2020, PMID:32817168). The ILCs in these mice had TCRg rearrangements, consistent with a shared origin with WT thymic-derived ILCs. In unpublished data from our lab, we found an increase in the numbers of ILC2 but not ILC3 in HEB cKO fetal thymic organ cultures. We did not follow up on this work any further since the topic was being heavily pursued in other labs, but remain very interested in this branchpoint, and will mention the literature in the discussion.

      Joint recommendations for the authors:

      (1) Experimental validation (for mechanistic clarity)

      The ChIP-seq reanalysis indicates overlapping HEB, E2A, and Egr2 peaks ~60 kb upstream of Id3. Given that the Egr2 data are not generated using the same thymocyte subsets, some form of validation should be considered for the co-binding of HEB and Egr2, potentially ChIP-qPCR in sorted gdT17 progenitors to substantiate the proposed cooperative mechanism.

      See above; new experiments with ATAC-seq and additional ChIP-seq analysis.

      (2) Figures

      Potential inconsistencies in Figure 1H: In the legend to Figure 1H, Vg1-Vg5- cells are considered Vg6+ cells. Flow plots show reduced A Vg1-Vg5- population in HEBc ko mice, but the accompanying bar plot shows increased frequency of Vg6+ cells.

      Vg6 cells are actually considered to be Vg4-Vg5-Vg1- cells (not Vg4- Vg1- cells, which is important in the fetal context). The flow plot shows the percentage of Vg6 cells out of the Vg1-Vg4- population, whereas the bar plot shows the percentage of Vg6 cells out of all gdTCR+ cells. The ratio of Vg6 to Vg5 cells decreases within the Vg1-Vg4- population, whereas the overall percentages and numbers of Vg6 cells in all gd T cells is increased in HEB cKO mice. We have now more clearly explained this in the text and the figure legend.

      Clarify which cells produce IL-17A in Figure 1L.

      This plot is gated on all gd T cells stimulated with PMA/ionomycin; this has been added to the results and figure legend.

      In Supplementary Figure 2, legend, do the authors mean that TRGV4 was depleted? The authors write TRDV4. Please check.

      Thank you for catching this mistake, we have corrected it.

      In Figure 7, the Author showed Id3 mRNA expression. Can the expression of Id2 be included?

      That is a really interesting question, and we will follow up on it in future studies.

      If Id1 or Id4 are relevant for any of these studies, can their expression be shown in Supplementary Figure 3A? If these are minimally expressed or not expressed, this could be mentioned.

      Id1 and Id4 were not detectable in our studies, this is now stated in the results section describing expression of E proteins and Id proteins.

      (3) Discussion

      Discuss possible redundancy between HEB and E2A, as E2A expression appears unaffected in HEB-deficient cells.

      See above

      Address whether the mechanisms identified at E18 (embryonic stage) also apply to neonatal or adult γδT17 subsets.

      See above

      Expand on how HEB function may relate to other hematopoietic or early lymphoid lineages (NK/ILC, DN1-DN3 stages), based on reviewer curiosity.

      See above

      (4) Methods and terminology

      Define the terms γδTe1 and γδTe2 (e.g., early effector subsets).

      This has been defined more clearly in several sections of the text.

      Add details to the scRNA-seq methods section (average number of cells analyzed and sequencing depth per cell).

      These details have been added.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      We now performed new experiments that were included in the manuscript. Our new results show that that monocyte-derived dendritic cells primed in vivo during P. chabaudi infection, or in vitro with TNF express high levels or GLUT-1 (Figures 4M, 5D, 6L). Furthermore, our new data show that mice treated with 2-DG (na inhibitor of glycolysis) are more susceptible to infection (Figures 6N, O). In addition, new results of glucose uptake by muscle and adipose tissues were added to the manuscript. Finally, figure legends were revised, densitometric analysis performed, and other issues addressed in the text.

      Please see below a point-by-point reply to the Reviewers’ comments.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript by Kely C. Matteucci et al. titled "Reprogramming of host energy metabolism mediated by the TNF-iNOS-HIF-1α axis plays a key role in host resistance to Plasmodium infection" describes that TNF induces HIF-1α stabilization that increases GLUT1 expression as well as glycolytic metabolism in monocytic and splenic CD11b+ cells in P. chabaudi infected mice. Also, TNF signaling plays a crucial role in host energy metabolism, controlling parasitemia, and regulating the clinical symptoms in experimental malaria.

      This paper involves an incredible amount of work, and the authors have done an exciting study addressing the TNF-iNOS-HIF-1α axis as a critical role in host immune defense during Plasmodium infection.

      Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      The premise of the manuscript by Matteucci et al. is interesting and elaborates on a mechanism via which TNFa regulates monocyte activation and metabolism to promote murine survival during Plasmodium infection. The authors show that TNF signaling (via an unknown mechanism) induces nitrite synthesis, which (via yet an unknown mechanism), and stabilizes the transcription factor HIF1a. Furthermore, HIF1a (via an unknown mechanism) increases GLUT1 expression and increases glycolysis in monocytes. The authors demonstrate that this metabolic rewiring towards increased glycolysis in a subset of monocytes is necessary for monocyte activation including cytokine secretion, and parasite control.

      Strengths:

      The authors provide elegant in vivo experiments to characterize metabolic consequences of Plasmodium infection, and isolate cell populations whose metabolic state is regulated downstream of TNFa. Furthermore, the authors tie together several interesting observations to propose an interesting model.

      Weaknesses:

      The main conclusion of this work - that "Reprogramming of host energy metabolism mediated by the TNF-iNOS-HIF1a axis plays a key role in host resistance to Plasmodium infection" is unsubstantiated. The authors show that TNFa induces GLUT1 in monocytes, but never show a direct role for GLUT1 or glucose uptake in monocytes in host resistance to infection (nor the hypoglycemia phenotype they describe).

      We kindly disagree with the Reviewer. There is a series of experiments showing that TNFR KO (Figures 1, 2, 4), HIF1a KO (Figure 5) and iNOS KO (Figure 6) mice have partially impaired inflammatory response and control of parasitemia (Figures Figures 1E, 5G and 6B).

      To further address the issue raised by the reviewer, we performed two sets of experiments. First, we show, in vitro, the impact of TNF stimulation on GLUT1 expression and glucose uptake (Figure 4M, 5D, 6L). Our results show that GLUT1 is increased after 18 hours with TNF (100 ng/mL) stimulation in MODCs from WT mice but not from iNOS KO, HIF1a KO e TNFR KO mice. Similar results were obtained with monocytic cells derived from infected mice (Figure 4L, 5C, 6K). The results support the discussion by demonstrating that TNF stimulation influences GLUT1 expression in monocytic cells. This aligns with the proposed mechanism that TNF signaling regulates HIF-1α stabilization and glycolytic metabolism via RNI. The absence of GLUT1 upregulation and glucose uptake in TNFR KO, iNOS KO and HIF-1α KO mice further reinforces the role of RNI in promoting HIF-1α stabilization, as suggested in the discussion.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      Major points

      All Figure legends are not precise about the data express means {plus minus} standard errors of the means (SEM) or SD. Figure 1D shows no SD in the data from the uninfected group. It strongly suggests precise and improving all figure legends, giving more details in terms of including an explanation of all symbols, non-standard abbreviations, error bars (standard deviation or standard error), experimental and biological replicates, and the number of animals, and representative of the independent experiments.

      We apologize for the lack of details in the Figure legends. As requested, we are now indicating whether we used SEM or STDV, number of mice per group, number of replicate experiments. We also clarified the groups that are being compared, and the statistical significance indicated by the symbols. We also standardized symbols as asterisk only, and number of asterisk indicating the significance.

      Figure 1. The figure legend has no information about the organ for which TNF mRNA was measured (Figure 1D). Also, regarding the TNF data, Figure 1 C e 1D shows that the circulating levels of TNF and the expression of TNF mRNA in the liver peaked at the same time point, and after 6h, there is no difference between infected and uninfected mice. It would be expected that the TNF mRNA expression would be detected earlier than the protein, assuming that the primary source of TNF is from the liver. Is there another organ that could mainly source blood TNF levels? Did the authors have a chance to measure the blood TNF levels during infection (0-8dpi), besides the measurement at different times only on day 8?

      We included in the legend of Figure 1D that mRNA was extracted from liver.

      Liver and spleen are the main reservoir of infected erythrocytes and the main source of cytokines during the infection with the erythrocytic stage of malaria. The results presented in Figures 1C and 1D are from in vivo experiments, not a controlled cellular experiment in vitro. So, we can not conclude about exact time and synchronous production of TNF mRNA and protein. We have published earlier that during P. chabaudi infection, the peaks of TNF mRNA expression and the levels of circulating TNF protein occur between midnight and 6 am (Hirako at al., 2018). Hence the results are consistent in the results described here. In addition, this earlier study also shows that the same pattern of TNF at days 6 and 8 post-infection are similar. Furthermore, in another studies, we reported that the peak of TNF production occurs between days 6 and 10 post P. chabaudi infection (Franklin et al, PNAS, 2009; Franklin et al, Microbes and Infection, 2007). This is now clarified in the text (page 05, line 132):

      “As previously demonstrated, the circulating levels of TNF and expression of TNF mRNA in the liver peaked at 6 am (end of dark cycle) at 8 dpi (Figure 1C and 1D), and has been reported to peak between days 6 and 10 post-infection, with a consistent pattern observed on days 6 and 8.”

      Figure 2. "We observed that in naïve animals, all of these parameters were similar in TNFR<sup>-/-</sup> and C57BL/6 mice (Figures 2A-D, top panels, and Figures 2E-H)." Interestingly, the respiratory exchange rate of TNFR<sup>-/-</sup> uninfected mice seems higher in TNFR<sup>-/-</sup> uninfected mice than in naïve uninfected mice, and this pattern seems to be more pronounced in TNFR<sup>-/-</sup> uninfected mice. Is there any suggestion that could explain the change in respiratory exchange rate behavior without infection in those animals?

      At the moment, we have not investigated the basis of this difference between uninfected WT and TNFR KO mice, which goes beyond the scope of this research. This is indeed an interesting observation that should be pursued in the future by our group and elsewhere. We mentioned this difference, when describing the results (page 06, lines 155):

      “We observed that in naïve animals, all of these parameters were similar in TNFR<sup>-/-</sup> and C57BL/6 mice (Figures 2A-D, top panels and Figures 2E-H), with a slightly higher respiratory exchange rate in uninfected TNFR<sup>-/-</sup> mice. In contrast, all the evaluated parameters were decreased in infected C57BL/6 mice compared to their naïve counterparts during the light and dark cycles. When we analyzed only infected mice, the alterations in all parameters were milder in TNFR<sup>-/-</sup> compared to C57BL/6 mice (Figures 2A-D bottom panels and 2E-H).”

      Figure 3. To give an idea of the main population of non-parenchymal cells, it will be helpful to clarify briefly how non-parenchymal cells from the liver of infected or uninfected mice were isolated.

      We described in detail at Material and Methods (Page 19, Lines 566.)

      Figure 3, B, C, D, G and Figure 4K and Figure 5 A and B - Semi-quantitative data through the densitometric analysis of western blots should be included in all figures.

      Thank you for the suggestion. We now included the densitometric analysis for all Western blot results in Supplementary figure.

      Figure 4. The author describes, "We observed that except for Hexokinase-3, the expression of mRNAs of glycolytic enzymes (Hexokinase-1, PFKP, and PKM) was increased in C57BL/6 but not TNFR-/- 8dpi." Sometimes, it is hard to understand which groups have been compared to some data. Be precise in describing the statistical analysis between the groups. It seems that those genes were increased in "infected C57BL/6 in comparison to uninfected mice, but not TNFR-/- 8-dpi. Moreover, even though the authors include statistic symbols "ι, ιι, ιιι" in other legends, there is no explanation about statistic symbols in the legend of Figure 4.

      As mentioned above, we improved the descriptions of all figures in the legend, and when necessary in the main text describing the results.

      Figure 5. The authors describe, "We found that GLUT1 protein and glycolysis (ECAR) was impaired, respectively, in monocytic cells and splenic CD11b+ cells from infected, as compared to uninfected HIF-1aΔLyz2 mice (Figures 5C-5E)." The GLUT-1 expression was inhibited in both cells compared to HIF-1afl/fl mice but not even close to impaired GLUT-1 expression. There is still a robust amount of GLUT-1 expression, and significantly higher when compared to cells from uninfected mice.

      We tuned our statement to partially impaired, indicating that other host or parasite components maybe be also influencing GLUT-1 expression. In fact, we have recently published that IFNγ has also an important role in regulating GLUT1 expression in MO-DCs and this reference is mentioned in the text (page 10, line 291):

      “We found that glycolysis (ECAR) and GLUT1 expression were impaired, though partially, in monocytic and splenic CD11b+ cells from infected HIF-1aΔLyz2 mice (Figures 5C-5E) compared to infected WT mice. The level of GLUT1 expression that is still maintained is likely due to other host or parasite factors, such as IFN-γ (Ramalho 2024).”

      Figure 6. It is essential to have more information about the number of replicates in Figure 6A. However, there are just two dots replicates in the condition CD11b+ splenic cells from C57BL/6 stimulated with or without LPS (purple bars). It is essential to be precise regarding the number of experimental and biological replicates in each experiment and the statistical analysis that has been applied, including this group. Furthermore, the author concludes, "...these data demonstrated that RNI induces HIF-1α expression...." This conclusion needs a more careful description since no data supports that monocytic cells or splenic CD11b+ cells from iNOS-/- infected mice decrease stabilization of HIF-1αm using blotting, as shown in Figure 5 A.

      As mentioned above the number of replicates for each experiment was included in the figure legends.

      Minor Points.

      Figure 3. "Hepatocytes have an important role in glucose uptake from the circulation, and they do this primarily through GLUT2 (38), whose mRNA expression was downregulated (Figure 3A) and protein expression unchanged in response to Pc infection (Figure 4K)." I suggest moving the Figure 4K to Figure 3 to make it easy to follow the data description.

      We thank the reviewer for the suggestion. However, we chose to keep Figure 4K in Figure 4, as this panel includes data from TNF receptor deficient mice, and the analysis of TNF knockout models is first introduced and discussed in Figure 4. For clarity and consistency, we therefore maintained this panel within Figure 4.

      Line 433. Replace iNOS for iNOS-/- mice.

      iNOS is now replaced for iNOS-/- mice.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      The premise of the manuscript by Matteucci et al. is interesting and elaborates on a mechanism via which TNFa regulates monocyte activation and metabolism to promote murine survival during Plasmodium infection. The authors show that TNF signaling (via an unknown mechanism) induces nitrite synthesis, which (via yet an unknown mechanism), and stabilizes the transcription factor HIF1a. Furthermore, HIF1a (via an unknown mechanism) increases GLUT1 expression and increases glycolysis in monocytes. The authors demonstrate that this metabolic rewiring towards increased glycolysis in a subset of monocytes is necessary for monocyte activation including cytokine secretion, and parasite control.

      The main goal of this work is to study the interplay of TNF/HIF1a/iNOs in the pathogenesis in an experimental model of malaria. To dissect the molecular mechanism by which TNF induces reactive nitrogen species and regulates HIFa expression is beyond the scope of our research. Nevertheless, there is a vast literature addressing these issues. We now include in the discussion a paragraph describing the main conclusion of these studies published previously (page 12, line 363):

      "Previous studies have shown that TNF induces the production of RNI through the upregulation of iNOS via the NF-κB pathway (63, 64). TNF-mediated iNOS expression is critical for NO production, which in turn stabilizes HIF-1α by inhibiting prolyl hydroxylases (PHDs) even under normoxic conditions (58, 59). HIF-1α then upregulates the expression of glycolytic genes, including GLUT1 (22, 62).”

      Major comments

      Issues concerning novelty

      Some of the reported observations are not novel. TNFa and TNFa signaling has been demonstrated to contribute to the release of certain cytokines, and to contribute to the control parasitemia (PMID: 10225939). TNFa has been shown to increase glucose uptake in tissues (PMID: 2589544). There is a textbook about the role of INOS during the pathogenesis of malaria, including its association with parasite control (https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/0-306-46816-6_15). Furthermore, other mechanisms controlling glycemia during Plasmodium infection have been shown (PMID: 35841892). The authors should adequately discuss other papers which have reported some of their findings.

      Thanks for the comments on previously existing literature. We are well aware of some of this earlier literature. Some of these earlier findings are mentioned in our manuscript. We emphasized these fundamental findings in the discussion, as requested (page 12, line 368):

      “TNF has been described as a critical mediator in malaria, driving cytokine release and parasitemia control (PMID: 10225939). It also enhances glucose uptake in tissues, aligning with our findings of increased glycolysis in monocytes (PMID: 2589544). The role of iNOS in malaria is well documented. IFN-γ and TNF induced the production of NO, which inhibits parasite growth but can cause tissue damage and organ dysfunction, especially in severe malaria (Mordmüller et al., 2002). Recent studies also highlight the complexity of glycemia regulation during Plasmodium infection describing its role in modulating parasite virulence and transmission (PMID:35841892). These studies demonstrate the critical function of TNF and iNOS in immune responses against Plasmodium, aligning with our findings of this axis and metabolic rewiring that are essential for monocyte activation and outcome of Pc infection.”

      The authors claim that "Reprogramming of host energy metabolism mediated by the TNF-iNOS-HIF1a axis plays a key role in host resistance to Plasmodium infection," and contributes significantly to their effector functions (particularly parasite clearing), and the systemic drop in glycemia observed during Pc infection. Although the authors show that TNFa does result in altered metabolism and increased GLUT1 levels in a subpopulation of monocytes, the evidence that TNFa-induced glylcolysis plays a key role in host resistance is correlative at best.

      This is an important question. We did show that TNFR KO have higher parasitemia. But TNF is pleiotropic cytokine and has multiple roles on innate and acquired immunity. The experiment we have performed and helps to address this issue is the in vivo treatment with 2DG. We found that treatment with this inhibitor of glycolysis results in a increase of parasitemia. These results are now included in Figure 6.

      When considering that the majority of monocytic populations are reduced in frequency and only a small subset (i.e., Monocyte-derived DCs) increase in frequency (Fig 3K) during Pc infection, this makes it very difficult to demonstrate that a cell population whose overall frequency reduces contributes significantly to the drop in glycemia during Pc infection. The authors should therefore include experiments that demonstrate that the inhibition of glycolysis induced by TNFa in monocytes is protective and/or contributes to a decrease in extracellular glucose. The authors could assess the impact of the loss of function of GLUT1 on activated monocytes and monocyte-derived DCs on glycemia upon TNFa stimulation.

      We agree. We focused on monocytes and the derived inflammatory monocytes and MO-DCs. In fact, the frequency of monocytes, considering the inflammatory monocytes and MO-DCs, is increased both in spleen and liver. One interesting result is that the HIF1a Lysm KO mice has impaired metabolism, attenuated hypoglycemia and increased parasitemia (Figure 5). Nevertheless, we agree that our current data thus not proof that the glycemia is due to the consumption of glucose by the activated monocytes, and that these are the only cells with increased glucose consumption. This is now added to the discussion (page 13, line 395):

      "Although the frequency of MO-DCs increases during infection, other cell populations may also contribute to glucose consumption. Further experiments, including the assessment of GLUT1 function in these populations, are needed to clarify their contribution to glucose consumption during infection."

      Furthermore, in the current state of the manuscript, it is unclear how activated monocyte populations uptake glucose. The authors claim that glucose uptake by activated monocytes is GLUT1-dependent, however, glucose transport via GLUT1 is insulin-dependent. Since Plasmodium infection is associated with insulin resistance, and almost unquantifiable levels of insulin (PMID: 35841892), and TNFa itself induces insulin resistance (PMCID: PMC43887), it is unclear how the activated monocyte population uptakes glucose. If the authors consider TNFa to be sufficient for GLUT1 induction, in vitro experiments (TNFa+monocytes) could bolster this claim (and support that GLUT1 is induced in an insulin-independent mechanism.

      There is significant evidences indicating that in contrast to GLUT4, induction of GLUT1 in mice is independent of insulin (PMID: 9801136). In our case, seems to be induced by the cytokines TNF and IFN𝛾(this study and Ramalho et al., 2024). We now performed experiments exposing monocytes to TNF and evaluating GLUT1 expression. The results indicate that monocytes exposed to TNF (100 ng/mL) for 18 hours from WT mice exhibited a significant increase in GLUT1 expression. This increase was comparable to the increased-GLUT1 phenotype observed in infected animals. The results of this experiment were included in the manuscript.

      A text was included to the discussion to clarify the issue of insulin dependence of GLUT1 expression (page 13, line 388):

      “GLUT1 expression is recognized as independent of insulin, in contrast to GLUT4 (PMID: 9801136). In our model, this regulation appears to be driven by pro-inflammatory cytokines, particularly TNF. Supporting this, our results show that in vitro stimulation with TNF, significantly increases GLUT1 expression in monocytes, accordingly to the ex vivo phenotype observed in infected animals.”

      Alternative hypothesis which might explain their phenotypes

      Figure 2 A-H: The metabolic effects of the genetic manipulations including INOS KO, TNFR KO, and HIF-1α∆Lyz2 could be explained by lesser disease morbidity owed to a reduction of inflammatory response during infection. Under this condition, the development of anorexia will not be as profound in the knock-outs compared with wild-type littermate controls, since anorexia of infection is tightly linked to the magnitude of inflammatory response. Accordingly, infected knock-out animals can keep eating, which presumably impacts glycemia, maintenance of core body temperature, and overall energetics of infected mice. The authors should exclude this possibility.

      We consider this possibility and the discussion now elaborates about this alternative hypothesis. We believe, that these two mechanisms are not mutually exclusive (page 16, line 474):

      “Although restored physical activity, food consumption and energy expenditure in knockout mice may contribute to the observed systemic metabolic parameters by altering energy balance, these effects are not mutually exclusive with the TNF-driven, cell-intrinsic metabolic mechanisms described here.”

      Minor comments

      The authors showed increased parasitemia upon TNFR and HIF1a depletion in the LyZ2 compartment. The same was observed upon organismal INOS depletion. This raises the question of whether the TNFHIF-INOS signaling axis is adaptive or maladaptive during Pcc infection. The authors should show host survival in mice lacking TNFR and HIF1a in the LyZ2 compartment, and in mice lacking INOS (presumably, they have these data).

      Despite the fact the various knockout mice have increased parasitemia and signs of disease, they all survive the infection. This is now included in the Figure legends.

      Are the higher tissue glucose levels specific to the liver and the spleen or this is a more general event? Have the authors looked at other organs?

      We now added the results of glucose uptake in the muscle and adipose tissues in figure 2. The fact that the glucose uptake is not increased in muscle and adipose tissue, further suggest that the increased glucose uptake in this model is insulin independent.

      Figure 1F: All core body temperatures are within the physiological range, i.e., >36 degrees C. This makes it unclear why the authors regarded this as hypothermia. The authors should present experiments demonstrating the development of hypothermia in Figure 1F, as they claim this.

      Temperature changes in mouse kept in animal house have been an issue discussed in the field. It is clear, however, that early in the morning (end of active period) mice have torpor. Lower temperature and physical activity.

      In Figure 4, since the authors already suggested that extra-hepatic cells, and not the liver parenchyma, contribute to glucose uptake, the authors should clarify why they analyzed the whole liver in Figure 4, and not extra-hepatic cells. Furthermore, the authors should quantify the hepatic monocytic population in non-infected versus infected wild-type animals.

      The reason we used whole liver, is that the number of non-parenchymal cells obtained from liver is limited for Western blot analysis. We thought that was important to show that expression of GLUT1 was decreased in the liver of TNFR KO mice. Nevertheless, the level of TNFR expression in different cell types in the liver was shown by flow cytometry. In addition, we performed the WB with cells extracted from the spleen, where lymphoid and myeloid cells are more abundant.

      Line 87: Phagocytizing parasitized what?

      This has been corrected in the manuscript.

      Line 111 Define RNI before being used.

      Is there a gender disparity in the TNFR KO phenotype? If yes, the authors should comment about this in their discussion.

      This has been defined and addressed in the manuscript

      Line 192: Did the authors mean 3B??

      In 3M, please plot monocytes from uninfected animals.

      The plot of uninfected animals are now included in Figure 3M

      Line 390 Remove the extra dash in HIF1a.

      Extra dash has been removed.

      Line 397 Define RA

      RA is now defined.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      We thank the reviewers for their careful reading of our manuscript and for the constructive and insightful feedback. In response, we performed several new experiments and analyses that significantly strengthen the study. First, we addressed the important question of optoLARG recruitment dynamics by generating a new cell line expressing optoLARG-mScarlet3 together with paxillin-miRFP, enabling us to directly quantify the dynamics of the optogenetic activator at focal adhesions and the plasma membrane. Second, we introduced a quantitative modeling framework to analyze RhoA activity dynamics during transient optogenetic stimulation. Using the measured optoLARG kinetics as input, we fitted activation and deactivation parameters for both WT and DLC1 KO cells, revealing a loss of negative feedback regulation in the KO condition. Together, these additions clarify the temporal relationships between optogenetic activation, RhoA signaling, and biosensor responses, and provide a more rigorous, mechanistic interpretation of our data. We rewrote large parts of the discussion section to reflect this new information.

      Below, we provide detailed, point-by-point responses to all reviewer comments.

      Recruitment dynamics optoLARG

      Reviewer #1:

      Public Review:

      For the optogenetic experiments, it is not clear if we are looking at the actual RhoA dynamics of the activity or at the dynamics of the optogenetic tool itself.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      For the transient optogenetic activations at FA and PM, it would be great to have one data set where the optoLARG is fused to a fluorescent protein, for example, mCherry, while FAs would be marked with paxillin-miRFP (by transient transfection to avoid making a new stable cell line). The dynamics of the optogenetic activator should be the same (on and off rates), but it can be possible that the activator is retained at FA for example. Such an experiment would help the understanding of the differential observed dynamics, where several timescales are involved: the dynamics of the opto tool, the dynamics of RhoA itself, and the dynamics of the biosensor.

      We agree with the reviewers, this is an essential control for this manuscript and the cell line will be useful in future studies. We developed a new construct containing with the recruitable SSpB domain tagged in red (optoLARG-mScarlet3) compatible with the iLid system, and paxilin-miRFP to locate the focal adhesions. From previous experiments we know that the anchor part of optoLARG system is distributed evenly across the cell membrane and is not affected by cytoskeletal structures like focal adhesions. As for the recruitable part of the optoLARG system, that translocates from the cytosol to the membrane upon blue light stimulation, we illuminated focal adhesion and non-focal adhesion regions, and quantified optoLARG dynamics. The same scripts were used for automated stimulation and analysis as were used for the rGBD recruitment experiments. We illustrate these results in the new Suppl. Fig S3. We found no significant difference in recruitment dynamics between focal adhesion/non-focal adhesion regions (Fig. S3B). We found the optoLARG dynamics fits well with inverse-exponential during recruitment under blue light stimulation, and exponential decay after blue light stimulation (disassociation phase), consistent with the expected iLID dynamics (Fig S3C). This experiment is described in detail at the end of the section "Optogenetic interrogation of the Rho GTPase flux in WT and DLC1 KO cells" (Lines 303-320). We then went on to use the optoLARG dynamics as input for the models describing RhoA activity dynamics (see next comment). This should help to untangle the measured RhoA dynamics from the dynamics of the optogenetic tool.

      Quantitative analysis RhoA activity dynamics

      Public Review:

      There is no model to analyze transient RhoA responses, however, the quantitative nature of the data calls for it. Even a simple model with linear activation-deactivation kinetics fitted on the data would be of benefit for the conclusions on the observed rates and absolute amounts.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      [...] for the transient optogenetic experiments, it would be great to make a simple model, or at least to fit the curves with an on rate, an off rate, and a peak value. This will clarify the conclusions drawn for the experiments. For example, the authors claim that they observe an increased Rho activation rate in DLC1 KO cells (see sections "Optogenetic interrogation of the Rho GTPase flux in WT and DLC1 KO cells" and "Discussion") but the rate is not well-defined. One can have two curves with the same activation rate but one that peaks higher (larger multiplicative prefactor) and it would resemble the presented data. This being said, the higher deactivation rate in DLC1 KO cells is evident from the data.

      We agree that a quantitative analysis and model would improve our understanding of the data. We fit the activation/deactivation kinetics and provide the values in the chapter "Optogenetic interrogation of the Rho GTPase flux in WT and DLC1 KO cells" (Lines 287-299). We then modeled the RhoA activity dynamics at focal adhesions and at the plasma membrane after transient optogenetic stimulation using a system of ODEs, using the new measurements of optoLARG kinetics as activation input. We find a close fit for the experimental data, with WT following classic Michaelis-Menten dynamics. Interestingly, when fitting the DLC1-KO data with the same model as for WT, the parameter modeling the negative feedback loop (active RhoA recruiting a GAP) is set to zero; in other words, the factor that deactivates RhoA is present at a constant concentration. We added an additional main Figure 5 describing the models and fits, and added a new Results section "Modeling indicates loss of negative RhoA autoregulation in DLC1-KO cells" (Lines 326-378), and also updated the Methods and Discussion section of the paper accordingly. We use the findings to more clearly ground the mathematical terms used to describe our results.

      Error figure 6E

      Recommendations for the authors:

      The scheme presented in Figure 6E is not supported by the data and should be modified. In this scheme, the authors show a strongly delayed peak in control cells versus DCL1 KO cells, whereas in the data the peaks appear to be at similar time points. Similarly, the authors show a strongly decreased rate of activation, whereas the initial rates appear identical in the data.

      The delayed peak we illustrated is an error, we thank the reviewers for catching it. The decreased rate of deactivation and activation, although exaggerated in the scheme, is however present in the data (and is now quantified, see answer above). We updated the figure accordingly (now Fig. 7E in the manuscript).

      Clarification term "signaling flux"

      Recommendations for the authors:

      It would be nice to define more precisely several terms that are used throughout the manuscript. For example, could the authors define what they mean by "signaling flux"? Is it the temporal derivative of the Rho levels? Or the spatial derivative?

      We agree that this was not clear in the previous version of the manuscript. We refer to "signaling flux" as the continuous cycle of RhoA activation by GEFs and inactivation by GAPs, processes that persist even when bulk RhoA activity appears steady, as introduced by Miller & Bement (2009). We now explicitly define "signaling flux" in the abstract (Lines 20-24).

      See: Miller, Ann L., and William M. Bement. "Regulation of cytokinesis by Rho GTPase flux." Nature cell biology 11.1 (2009): 71-77. https://doi.org/10.1038/ncb1814

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Also (see above) it would be nice to define precisely what are the rates: the activation rate is in general the k_on of a reaction scheme, but it will differ from the observed rate given by a biosensor. For example, with a k_on and a k_off the observed rate toward the steady-state will be given by the sum of the activation and deactivation rates. In the manuscript, the authors do not make the distinction between the activation rate with the rate of increase of the biosensor which is confounding for the reader and for the interpretation of the data.

      We update the results section to make this distinction more clear (Lines 288-300), and add a note explicitly highlighting the difference between biosensor signal dynamics and the underlying RhoA activation/deactivation rates (Lines 298-300). In addition, our newly introduced model helps disentangle the combined activation/deactivation rates into distinct GEF and GAP activity parameters.

      Improvements to figure 3

      Minor recommendation:

      In Figures 3 B and D, the stars (statistical differences) are not visible. It would be good to make them bigger or move them above the graphs.

      Thank you! We updated the graphics.

      Other changes

      Additional panel (Figure 5D) showing paxillin intensity does not change after weak optogenetic stimulation, to better illustrate the weak stimulation regime that does not trigger FA reinforcement (contrasting Figure 7). Additional small layout changes to Figure 5.

      Addition of authors that contributed to the revisions

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      eLife Assessment

      This study represents an important advance in our understanding of how certain inhibitors affect the behavior of voltage gated potassium channels. Robust molecular dynamics simulation and analysis methods lead to a new proposed inhibition mechanism with strength of support being mostly convincing, and incomplete in some aspects. This study has considerable significance for the fields of ion channel physiology and pharmacology and could aid in development of selective inhibitors for protein targets 

      We are encouraged by this favorable assessment and thank editors and reviewers for their constructive feedback and recommendations. We trust that the revisions made to the manuscript will clarify the aspects that had been perceived to be incomplete.

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary: 

      This study seeks to identify a molecular mechanism whereby the small molecule RY785 selectively inhibits Kv2.1 channels. Specifically, it sought to explain some of the functional differences that RY785 exhibits in experimental electrophysiology experiments as compared to other Kv inhibitors, namely the charged and non-specific inhibitor tetraethylammonium (TEA). This study used a recently published cryo-EM Kv2.1 channel structure in the open activated state and performed a series of multi-microsecond-long all-atom molecular dynamics simulations to study Kv2.1 channel conduction under the applied membrane voltage with and without RY785 or TEA present. While TEA directly blocks K+ permeation by occluding ion permeation pathway, RY785 binds to multiple nonpolar residues near the hydrophobic gate of the channel driving it to a semi-closed non-conductive state. This mechanism was confirmed using an additional set of simulations and used to explain experimental electrophysiology data.

      Strengths:

      The total length of simulation time is impressive, totaling many tens of microseconds. The study develops forcefield parameters for the RY785 molecule based on extensive QM-based parameterization. The computed permeation rate of K+ ions through the channel observed under applied voltage conditions is in reasonable agreement with experimental estimates of the singlechannel conductance. The study performed extensive simulations with the apo channel as well as both TEA and RY785. The simulations with TEA reasonably demonstrate that TEA directly blocks K+ permeation by binding in the center of the Kv2.1 channel cavity, preventing K+ ions from reaching the SCav site. The conclusion is that RY785 likely stabilizes a partially closed conformation of the Kv2.1 channel and thereby inhibits the K+ current. This conclusion is plausible given that RY785 makes stable contact with multiple hydrophobic residues in the S6 helix. This further provides a possible mechanism for the experimental observations that RY785 speeds up the deactivation kinetics of Kv2 channels from a previous experimental electrophysiology study.

      Weaknesses:

      The study, however, did not produce this semi-closed channel conformation and acknowledges that more direct simulation evidence would require extensive enhanced-sampling simulations. The study has not estimated the effect of RY785 binding on the protein-based hydrophobic pore constriction, which may further substantiate their proposed mechanism. And while the study quantified K+ permeation, it does not make any estimates of the ligand binding affinities or rates, which could have been potentially compared to the experiment and used to validate the models. 

      As stated in the original manuscript, we concur that the mechanism we propose remains hypothetical until further studies of the complete conformational cycle of the channel are conducted. The recently determined structure of a Kv2.1 channel in the closed state (Mandala and MacKinnon, PNAS 2025) presents an excellent opportunity to do so. Indeed, a cursory analysis of that structure shows that a Pro-Ile-Pro motif in helix S6 marks the position of the intracellular gate, where the pore domain constricts maximally (aside from the selectivity filter). As illustrated in Fig. 5, this motif is precisely where the benzimidazole and thiazole moieties of RY785 bind in our simulations. The mechanism we outline in Fig. 7 thus seems very plausible, in our view; that is RY785 occludes the K<sup>+</sup> permeation pathway before the pore domain reaches the closed conformation, explaining the observed electrophysiological effects (see Discussion). The Discussion has been revised to note the recent discovery of the aforementioned structure, its implications for the mechanism we propose, and the opportunities for further research that are now open.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, Zhang et al. investigate the conductivity and inhibition mechanisms of the Kv2.1 channel, focusing on the distinct effects of TEA and RY785 on Kv2 potassium channels. The study employs microsecond-scale molecular dynamics simulations to characterize K+ ion permeation and compound binding inhibition in the central pore. 

      Strengths:

      The findings reveal a unique inhibition mechanism for RY785, which binds to the channel walls in the open structure while allowing reduced K+ flow. The study also proposes a long-range allosteric coupling between RY785 binding in the central pore and its effects on voltage-sensing domain dynamics. Overall, this well-organized paper presents a high-quality study with robust simulation and analysis methods, offering novel insights into voltage-gated ion channel inhibition that could prove valuable for future drug design efforts.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The study neglects to consider the possibility of multiple binding sites for RY785, particularly given its impact on voltage sensors and gating currents. Specifically, there is potential for allosteric binding sites in the voltage-sensing domain (VSD), as some allosteric modulators with thiazole moieties are known to bind VSD domains in multiple voltage-gated sodium channels (Ahuja et al., 2015; Li et al., 2022; McCormack et al., 2013; Mulcahy et al., 2019).

      As noted in the manuscript, we designed our simulations to explore the possibility that RY785 binds within the pore domain, because TEA and RY785 are competitive and TEA is known to bind within the pore. That RY785 did in fact spontaneously and reproducibly bind within the pore was however not a predetermined outcome; if the site of interaction for the inhibitor was elsewhere in the channel, the simulation would not have shown a stable associated state, which would have prompted us to examine other possible sites, including the voltage sensors. It was also not predetermined or foreseeable a priori that the mode of interaction we observed in simulation provides a straightforward rationale for the electrophysiological effects of RY785. Based on our results, therefore, we believe that RY785 binds within the pore of Kv2. As stated by the reviewer, other allosteric modulators are known to bind instead to the sensors; to our knowledge, however, there is no precedent of a small-molecule inhibitor that simultaneously acts on the sensors and the pore domain. We therefore believe that future studies should focus on corroborating or refuting the mechanism we propose, through additional experimental and computational work; if, contrary to our claim, RY785 is found not to bind to the pore domain, it would be logical to explore other possible sites of interaction, as the reviewer suggests. The Discussion has been modified to address this point.

      (2) The study describes RY785 as a selective inhibitor of Kv2 channels and characterizes its binding residues through MD simulations. However, it is not clear whether the identified RY785-binding residues are indeed unique to Kv2 channels.

      To clarify this question, we have included a multiple sequence alignment as Supplementary Figure 1; the revised manuscript refers to this figure in the Discussion section. The alignment reveals that the cluster of residues forming contacts with RY785 (Val409, Pro406, Ile405, Ile401, and Val398) is indeed specific to Kv2.1. Among Kv channels, Kv3.1 and Kv4.1 exhibit the greatest similarity to Kv2.1 at these positions, but they differ in a crucial substitution: Ile405 in Kv2.1 is replaced by Val. This replacement shortens the sidechain, undoubtedly reducing the magnitude of the hydrophobic interaction between inhibitor and channel (Val is approximately 6 kcal/mol, i.e. 1,000 times, more hydrophilic than Ile). Kv5.1 differs from Kv2.1 at two positions: Pro406 is replaced by His, and Val409 by Ile. The introduction of His abolishes the hydrophobic interaction at that position, and the need for hydration likely perturbs all adjacent contacts with RY785. Lastly, Kv6-Kv10 and Cav channels feature entirely different residues at these positions. Consistent with these findings, a recent study by the Sack lab (https://elifesciences.org/articles/99410) has demonstrated that Kv5, Kv6, Kv8, and Kv9 pore subunits confer resistance to RY785, while a high-throughput electrophysiological study carried out by Merck (Herrington et al., 2011) reported that RY785 shows no significant activity against Cav channels. The sequence alignment offers a simple interpretation for these experimental observations, namely that RY785 is recognized by Kv2 channels through the abovementioned hydrophobic cluster within the pore domain.

      (3) The study does not clarify the details, rationale, and ramifications of a biasing potential to dihedral angles.

      We refer the reviewer to published work, for example Stix et al, 2023 and Tan et al, 2022. We provide additional comments below.

      (4) The observation that the Kv2.1 central pore remains partially permeable to K+ ions when RY785 is bound is intriguing, yet it was not revealed whether polar groups of RY785 always interact with K+ ions.

      We detected no persistent specific interactions between RY785 and the permeant K+ ions.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The manuscript describes atomistic molecular dynamics (MD) simulations of a voltage-gated potassium channel Kv2.1 using its cryo-EM structure in the open activated state and its inhibition by a classical non-specific cationic blocker tetraethylammonium (TEA) as well as a novel selective inhibitor RY785. Using multi-microsecond-long all-atom MD runs under the applied membrane voltage of 100 mV the authors were able to confirm that the channel structure represents an open conducting state with the computed single-channel conductance lower than experimental values, but still in the same order of magnitude range. They also determined that both TEA and RY785 bind in the channel pore between the cytoplasmic hydrophobic gate and narrow selectivity filter (SF) region near the extracellular side. However, while TEA directly blocks a knock-on K+ conduction by physically obstructing ion access to the SF, the mechanism of action of RY785 is different. It does not directly prevent K+ access to the SF but rather binds to multiple residues in the hydrophobic gate region, which effectively narrows a pore and drives the channel toward a semi-closed nonconductive conformation, which might be distinct from one with the deactivated voltage sensors and closed pore observed at hyperpolarized membrane potentials. However, additional studies beyond the scope of this work might be needed to fully establish this mechanism as suggested by the authors.

      The manuscript is written very well and represents a significant advance in the field of ion channel research. I do not have any major issues, which need to be addressed. However, I have several suggestions.

      For the apo-channel K+ conduction MD simulation under the applied voltage, the authors seem to observe mostly a direct or Coulomb knock-on mechanism across the SF with almost no water copermeation. This is in line with computational electrophysiology studies with dual membrane setup by B. de Groot and others but in disagreement with multiple previous studies by B. Roux and others also using applied electric field and CHARMM force fields as in the present study. I wonder why the outcomes are so different. Is it related to the Kv2.1 channel itself, a relatively small applied electric field used (corresponding to a membrane potential of 100 mV vs. 500-750 mV used in many previous simulations), ion force field (e.g., LJ parameters), or some other factors? Could weak dihedral restraints on the protein backbone and side chains contribute to this mechanism? I also wonder if the authors might have considered different initial SF ion configurations. Related to that, I wonder if the authors observed any SF distortions in their simulations including frequently observed backbone carbonyl flipping and/or dilation/contraction.

      We are aware of these discrepancies between published simulation studies, but cannot offer a satisfactory explanation, beyond speculation. The reviewer is correct that the mechanism of ion permeation we observe is comparable to that reported by de Groot, as we noted in Tan et al, 2022 and Stix et al, 2023. Neither in this nor in those previous studies did we observe any persistent distortions of the selectivity filter – but that outcome was expected by construction. The weak biasing potentials acting on the mainchain dihedral angles allow for local fluctuations but not a persistent deformation, relative to the conductive form determined experimentally.

      For MD simulations with the ligand present, I wonder if the authors can comment on the effect of the ligand especially RY785 on the pore size or more importantly size of the hydrophobic gate. The presence of the ligand itself would definitely result in a narrower pore, but I also wonder if this would also lead to a rearrangement of pore sidechain and/or backbone residues, which would lead to a narrower pore from a protein itself thus confirming the proposed mechanism of driving the channel towards a semi-closed state. It is easy to compute but I wonder if the presence of weak dihedral restraints may preclude this analysis.

      Yes, while the simulation design used in this study allows for local fluctuations in the mainchain structure and nearly unrestricted sidechain dynamics, changes in either the secondary or tertiary structure of the channel are strongly disfavored. This approach is thus sufficient to examine ligand binding or ion flow in the microsecond timescale but not channel gating. In the revised version of the Discussion, we outline a roadmap for future computational studies of that gating process, on the basis of the open-channel structure we used and the recently determined structure of the closed state.

      The authors state that RY785 does not block K+ ion, but it does significantly slow the rate of K+ ion access to the pore Scav site. Is this not a part of the mechanism for inhibition of the channel? The authors seem to focus on the primary mechanism of inhibition as the RY785 promoting channel closing, but would it not also reduce K+ current in the open state by slowing the rate of K+ entry into the cavity and selectivity filter? The authors should address this point in the text. I am also somewhat confused that in the MD simulations performed by the authors, there is still some K+ conduction with RY785 in the pore, which is not in 100% agreement with electrophysiology experiments. Does it mean that the channel in the simulations has not yet reached that semiclosed state or a reduced K+ conduction is not observed experimentally?

      The salient experimental observation is RY785 abrogates K+ currents through Kv2 channels (Herrington et al, 2011; Marquis et al, 2022). In our view, that observation can be explained in one of two ways: either RY785 completely blocks the flow of K+ ions across the channel while the pore domain remains in the conductive, open state – like TEA does – or RY785 induces or facilitates the closing of the channel, thereby abrogating K+ flow. The fact that we observe K+ flow while RY785 is bound to the channel is therefore not in disagreement with the electrophysiological measurements, but it does rule out the first of those two possible interpretations of the existing experiments. As it happens, the second possible explanation, i.e. that RY785 facilitates the closing of the pore domain, also provides a rationale for another puzzling experimental observation, namely that RY785 shifts the voltage dependence of the currents produced by the voltage sensors as they reconfigure to open or close the intracellular gate.

      Also, I wonder if the authors considered that since there are 4 potential equivalent sites in the pore (although, overlapping) more than one RY785 might be needed to prevent K+ conduction, even though the experimental Hill coefficient of ~1 does not indicate cooperativity.

      Admittedly, our simulation design was based on the premise that only one RY785 molecule might be recognized within the pore. Based on the outcome of the simulations, we are confident that this assumption was valid, as the binding pose that we identified rules out multiple occupancy – which would be indeed consistent with a Hill coefficient of ~1.

      I also wonder if the authors considered estimating ligand binding affinities and/or "on" rates from their simulations to have a more direct comparison with experiments and test the accuracy of their models. There are multiple enhanced sampling techniques allowing to do that, although it can be a study on its own.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion, which we will consider for future studies.

      The authors also discussed that they could not study Kv2.1 deactivation in a reasonable simulation time. Indeed it is very challenging but they should cite previous studies e.g. 2012 Jensen et al paper (PMID: 22499946) on this subject. There are structures of Kv channels with the deactivated voltagesensing domains (VSDs) available, e..g of EAG1 channel (PDB 8EP1), although they do not have a domain-swapped architecture. There are structural modeling approaches including AlphaFold, which can be potentially used to get a Kv2.1 structure with deactivated VSDs, and targeted MD, string method etc. can be used to study transition between different states with and without bound ligands.

      As noted, a structure of a Kv2 channel with a closed pore has now been determined experimentally. In the revised Discussion, we comment on what this structure tells us about the mechanism of inhibition we propose, and how it could be leveraged in future studies.

      The authors should be commended for doing a thorough QM-based force field parameterization of RY785. However, a validation of the developed force field parameters is lacking. In terms of QM validation, a gas-phase dipole moment can be compared in terms of direction and magnitude (it's normal to be overestimated to implicitly reflect solvent-induced polarization). If there are any experimental data available for this compound, they can be tested as well.

      We agree with the reviewer that forcefield validation is important, but to our knowledge no experimental data exists for RY785 to compare with, such as hydration free energies. We did however compare the gas-phase dipole moment computed with QM and with the MM forcefield we developed based on atomic charges optimized to reproduce QM interactions with water. The MM model yields a gas-phase dipole moment of 3.94 D, which is 20% greater than the QM dipole moment, or 3.23 D. That deviation is within the typical range for electroneutral molecules (Vanommeslaeghe et al, 2010), and as the reviewer notes, reflects the solvent-induced polarization implicit in the derivation of atomic charges. As shown in Author response image 1, the orientation of the dipole moment calculated with MM (right, blue arrow) is also in good agreement with that predicted with QM (left)

      Author response image 1.

      (1) p. 3 "the last two helices in each subunit" -> "the last two transmembrane helices in each subunit".

      Thanks. Corrected.

      (2) p. 5 "and therefore do not cause large density variations e.g. 100-fold or greater.". I would be more specific here and indicate what are the actual variations in density or free energy encountered and how they are compared e.g. with thermal fluctuations (~kT).

      Thanks. The exact variations in K+ density had been included in the original manuscript, in Fig. 2C, but we failed to refer to this figure at this point in the description of the results. The ion density is plotted in a log scale to facilitate conversion to free-energy units. Corrected.

      (3) p. 6 Figure 1 caption "and along the perpendicular to the membrane" -> "perpendicular to the membrane normal"?. "The channel is an assembly of four distinct subunits (in colors);" -> "The channel is an assembly of four identical subunits (distinct by colors);". I would use the same protein coloring method in panels B and C as was used in panel A.

      Thanks. Corrected as needed.

      (4) p. 6 Figure 2 In panel B I would appreciate a representative complete ion permeation event trace. In panel C caption I would indicate corresponding sites "S0-S4, Scav" for each residue mentioned. I also would not use gray color for site names in the figure.

      We appreciate the suggestion, but believe the figure is clear as is. Panel B is meant to focused on the mechanism of knock-on. Panel A includes numerous complete permeation events. 

      (5) p. 7 Figure 3 caption. Please indicate which atoms of residues T373 and P406 were used to define SF and gate positions. Chemical structures of both TEA and RY785 would be useful. In panels C and F channel interacting residues (if any) would be helpful to show.

      The revised caption clarifies that the positions of T373 and P406 are represented by their carbonalpha atoms. A close-up view of the structures of TEA and RY785 is included in the Supplementary Information section.

      (6) p. 8. Figure 4 caption. Please indicate if N atoms ere used for density maps in panels B and C, and which value of the density was used to show meshes. In panel A please indicate what are the units of the density shown by color maps. 

      The caption has been revised to clarify these questions.

      (7) p. 9 "inside the protein" -> "inside the channel pore".

      Thanks. Corrected.

      (8) p. 10 "which lines the cavity" -> "which lines the water-filled cavity"

      We appreciate the suggestion but believe the wording is clear as is.

      (9) p.10 Fig. 5. It would be helpful to distinguish residues from different chains e.g. by different colors rather than using different colors for different residues. The S atom in RY785 is hard to recognize due to the yellow color used for C atoms. Figure 5B is very confusing. It is not clear what this plot represents. For instance, what does it mean that Pro405 has ~10 contacts in 20% of simulation snapshots? Does it mean 10 C..C/S interactions within 4.5 A? I am not sure what the value of this is. I think a bar or radar chart plot showing % of contacts with one, two, or more residues of each type would be more helpful. 

      Thanks. The revised caption ought to clarify how to interpret the plot.

      (10) p. 12 "Due to its 2-fold molecular symmetry". TEA has a tetrahedral point group or Td symmetry. It has several two-fold rotational axes though. 

      Thanks. Corrected.

      (11) p. 12 "it prevents K+ ions in the cytoplasmic space from destabilizing the K+ ions that reside in the selectivity filter" I am not sure if this statement is entirely accurate as there might be destabilization of a multi-ion SF configuration not ions per see.

      We believe this statement is clear as is.

      (12) p. 13 Fig. 7 caption "includes non-conductive or transiently inactivated states" - I am not sure what "transiently inactivated state" is as inactivation is a specific term used in ion channel research and it does not seem to be explicitly considered in this study.

      A reference has been included in the caption for readers interested in the process of inactivation.

      (13) p. 14 "the net charge of these constructs is thus zero". This would depend on the number of basic and acidic residues in the protein. 

      Yes, it does – and as a result the construct we model has a net zero charge.

      (14) p. 14 I wonder if the protein was constrained or heavily restrained during MARTINI membrane building and equilibration procedure. Otherwise, C-alpha mapping would be problematic and clashes with lipid membrane atoms might take place as well.

      It was indeed. When a protein is simulated using the MARTINI coarse-grained forcefield, its fold must be preserved through a network of strong ‘virtual’ bonds between adjacent carbon-alpha atoms. This is standard practice so we do not believe it requires further explanation.

      (15) p. 15 PME - please spell out and provide reference.

      Corrected.

      (16) p. 15 "with a smooth switching function" - is it a special or standard switching function? Also, was it used for energy or forces? 

      The switching function brings both forces and energies to a value of zero at the cut-off value, smoothly. We refer the reviewer to the NAMD manual for further details.

      (17) p. 15 '𝑘 = 1 𝑘B𝑇.' Please confirm that there is a factor of "1" there, which can be actually skipped if this is the case. 

      The value of k = 1 KBT is correct.

      (18) p. 15. Please cite PMID: 22001851 for the transmembrane electric field application technique.

      Corrected.

      (19) p. 15 "and CHARMM36m" -> "and CHARMM36m force field". 

      Corrected.

      (20) p. 16 "the four proteins subunits" -> "the four protein subunits". 

      Corrected.

      (21) p. 16. Please provide the reference for CGenFF. It's reference 49. 

      Corrected.

      Supporting Information (SI): CGenFF is misspelled in multiple figure captions in the SI. All potential energy scans indicate "angle", but some are bond angles while others are dihedral angles. Using subscripts for atom numbers is confusing and does not match the numbering scheme used in Fig. S1. So, please use the same style of numbering throughout, e.g. C46-C42-N43 (without subscripts). Please label the X and Y axes in Figsures S2-S19 and S21. In Figure S22 please perform a linear regression analysis and/or compute Pearson correlation coefficients and indicate trend lines. Table S1. It would be good to compute RMS or mean unsigned errors to get an idea about accuracy. Also, please indicate if reference QM values were scaled by 1.16 for energies or offset for distances. 

      The Supplementary Information has been corrected. We thank the reviewer for their detailed feedback. 

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) The study needs to consider the possibility of multiple binding sites for RY785, particularly given its impact on voltage sensors and gating currents. Specifically, the potential for allosteric binding sites in the voltage-sensing domain (VSD) should be assessed, as some allosteric modulators with thiazole moieties are known to bind VSD domains in multiple voltage-gated sodium channels (Ahuja et al., 2015; Li et al., 2022; McCormack et al., 2013; Mulcahy et al., 2019). Molecular docking and/or MD simulations could quickly test this hypothesis. If this hypothesis is not true, a comprehensive search can exclude such a possibility, which can also confirm the long-range allosteric coupling between RY785 binding in the central pore and voltage-sensing domain dynamics. 

      Please see our response above.

      (2) The authors describe RY785 as a selective inhibitor of Kv2 channels and characterize its binding residues through MD simulations. To support this claim, Figure 5 needs to include a multiple sequence alignment with other Kv channels. This would help demonstrate whether the identified RY785-binding residues are indeed unique to Kv2 channels.

      Please see our response above.

      (3) The study applies a biasing potential to 𝜙, 𝜓, and 𝜒1 dihedral angles. Please clarify:

      (a) Is this potential solely to prevent selectivity filter collapse/degradation, as mentioned in a previous D. E. Shaw Research publication (Jensen et al., 2012)?

      Yes, that is correct.

      (b) If it applies to all amino acids, can this potential prevent other changes, such as in the voltagesensing domain?

      Yes, that is correct.

      (c) What specific "large-scale structural changes" does this potential preclude? 

      For example, it would preclude the spontaneous degradation of the secondary or tertiary structure of the protein. We have revised the Methods section to make these points clearer. 

      (d) Given that such biasing potentials on backbone dihedral angles can decrease conformational flexibility, and considering that Kv channel permeability/conductivity could be highly sensitive to filter flexibility, what insights can you provide about the impact of the force constant k on channel conductivity?

      In previous studies based on an identical methodology (Stix et al, 2023; Tan et al, 2022), we have observed good agreement between calculated and experimental conductance values – at least as good as can be hoped for, when all approximations are considered. Based on the data presented in those studies, we have no reason to believe our methodology inhibits the permeability of the channel, which is logical as the local structural fluctuations required for K+ flow across the selectivity filter are not impaired, by definition. To the contrary, the fact that these weak biasing potentials make the conductive form of the filter the most favorable state in simulation enable a clear-cut analysis of conductance under plausible simulation conditions, both in terms applied voltage and K+ concentration. We refer the reviewer to the abovementioned studies for further details and a discussion of this subject.

      (4) The observation that the Kv2.1 central pore remains partially permeable to K+ ions when RY785 is bound is intriguing. Given the compact nature of the central cavity when RY785 is bound, it would be valuable to investigate whether polar groups of RY785 (e.g., nitrogens from the amide, benzimidazole, and thiazole moieties) always interact with K+ ions. Characterizing these interactions could inform the design of similar compounds with differential modulation effects.

      We examined this possibility and detected no convincing interaction patterns between RY785 and K+ ions – logically, inhibitor and ions are in close proximity while residing concurrently within the pore, but we detected no evidence of specific interactions.

      Minor points:

      It is strongly recommended that the refined force field parameters for RY785 be shared as a separate supplementary file in CHARMM force field format. This addition would be valuable for the scientific community, allowing other researchers to use or compare these parameters in future studies.

      We agree entirely. Upon publication of the VOR for this article the forcefield parameters for RY785 will be made freely available for download at https://github.com/Faraldo-Gomez-Lab-atNIH/Download.

      The study uses a KCl concentration of 300 mM, which exceeds typical intracellular K+ levels. While this may be intentional to enhance K+ permeation probability, a brief justification for this choice should be included in the Methods section.

      Yes, what motivated this choice in this and in our previous studies of K+ channels was the expectation of a greater number of permeation events, for a given simulation length, and therefore greater confidence (i.e. statistical significance) in the observed ion conductance, or in the degree to which it might be inhibited by a blocker. It worth noting that 300 mM KCl, while atypical in the intracellular environment, is often used in electrophysiological studies. The Methods section has been amended to clarify this point.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Persistence is a phenomenon by which genetically susceptible cells are able to survive exposure to high concentrations of antibiotics. This is especially a major problem when treating infections caused by slow growing mycobacteria such as M. tuberculosis and M. abscessus. Studies on the mechanisms adopted by the persisting bacteria to survive and evade antibiotic killing can potentially lead to faster and more effective treatment strategies.

      To address this, in this study, the authors have used a transposon mutagenesis based sequencing approach to identify the genetic determinants of antibiotic persistence in M. abscessus. To enrich for persisters they employed conditions, that have been reported previously to increase persister frequency - nutrient starvation, to facilitate genetic screening for this phenotype. M.abs transposon library was grown in nutrient rich or nutrient depleted conditions and exposed to TIG/LZD for 6 days, following which Tnseq was carried out to identify genes involved in spontaneous (nutrient rich) or starvationinduced conditions. About 60% of the persistence hits were required in both the conditions. Pathway analysis revealed enrichment for genes involved in detoxification of nitrosative, oxidative, DNA damage and proteostasis stress. The authors then decided to validate the findings by constructing deletions of 5 different targets (pafA, katG, recR, blaR, Mab_1456c) and tested the persistence phenotype of these strains. Rather surprisingly only 2 of the 5 hits (katG and pafA) exhibited a significant persistence defect when compared to wild type upon exposure to TIG/LZD and this was complemented using an integrative construct. The authors then investigated the specificity of delta-katG susceptibility against different antibiotic classes and demonstrated increased killing by rifabutin. The katG phenotype was shown to be mediated through the production of oxidative stress which was reverted when the bacterial cells were cultured under hypoxic conditions. Interestingly, when testing the role of katG in other clinical strains of Mab, the phenotype was observed only in one of the clinical strains demonstrating that there might be alternative anti-oxidative stress defense mechanisms operating in some clinical strains.

      Strengths:

      While the role of ROS in antibiotic mediated killing of mycobacterial cells have been studied to some extent, this paper presents some new findings with regards to genetic analysis of M. abscessus susceptibility, especially against clinically used antibiotics, which makes it useful. Also, the attempts to validate their observations in clinical isolates is appreciated.

      Weaknesses:

      Amongst the 5 shortlisted candidates from the screen, only 2 showed marginal phenotypes which limits the impact of the screening approach.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comments, but we note that 4 out of 5 genes displayed phenotypes concordant with findings of the Tn-Seq data, with katG and pafA, as well as MAB_1456c (during starvation only) and blaR (in rich media only) having decreased survival as shown in Figure 3A-D. We do agree that some of the phenotypes were more modest in a single-mutant context than in the pooled Tn-Seq screen. In addition, several mutants that had modest changes in survival also showed profound defects in resuming growth after removal of antibiotics, with the pafA mutants particularly impaired. (Figure 3 - figure supplement 1).

      While the role of KatG mediated detoxification of ROS and involvement of ROS in antibiotic killing was well demonstrated, the lack of replication of this phenotype in some of the clinical isolates limits the significance of these findings.

      While the role of katG varied among strains, the antibiotic-induced accumulation of ROS was seen in all three strains (Figure 6A). This suggests that in some strains other ROS-detoxification pathways are able to compensate for the loss of katG.

      (Figure 2—figure supplements 1–3)

      Figure 1—figure supplement 1.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The work set out to better understand the phenomenon of antibiotic persistence in mycobacteria. Three new observations are made using the pathogenic Mycobacterium abscessus as an experimental system: phenotypic tolerance involves suppression of ROS, protein synthesis inhibitors can be lethal for this bacterium, and levofloxacin lethality is unaffected by deletion of catalase, suggesting that this quinolone does not kill via ROS.

      Strengths:

      The ROS experiments are supported in three ways: measurement of ROS by a fluorescent probe, deletion of catalase increases lethality of selected antibiotics, and a hypoxia model suppresses antibiotic lethality. A variety of antibiotics are examined, and transposon mutagenesis identifies several genes involved in phenotypic tolerance, including one that encodes catalase. The methods are adequate for making these statements.

      Weaknesses:

      The work can be improved by a more comprehensive treatment of prior work, especially comparison of E. coli work with mycobacterial studies.

      Moreover, the work still has some technical issues to fix regarding description of the methods, supplementary material, and reference formating.

      See detailed responses below.

      Overall impact: Showing that ROS accumulation is suppressed during phenotypic tolerance, while expected, adds to the examples of the protective effects of low ROS levels. Moreover, the work, along with a few others, extends the idea of antibiotic involvement with ROS to mycobacteria. These are fieldsolidifying observations.

      Comments on revisions:

      The authors have moved this paper along nicely. I have a few general thoughts.

      It would be helpful to have more references to specific figures and panels listed in the text to make reading easier.

      Text modified to add more figure references.

      (1) I would suggest adding a statement about the importance of the work. From my perspective, the work shows the general nature of many statements derived from work with E. coli. This is important. The abstract says this overall, but a final sentence in the abstract would make it clear to all readers.

      We appreciate the suggestion and have added a line to the abstract.

      (2) The paper describes properties that may be peculiar to mycobacteria. If the authors agree, I would suggest some stress on the differences from E. coli. Also, I would place more stress on novel findings. This might be done in a section called Concluding Remarks. The paper by Shee 2022 AAC could be helpful in phrasing general properties.

      We have added mention of this in the discussion (lines 354-356).

      (3) Several aspects still need work to be of publication quality. Examples are the materials table and the presentation of supplementary material. Reference formatting also needs attention.

      We respond to the specific details below.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript demonstrates that starvation induces persister formation in M. abscesses.

      They also utilized Tn-Seq for the identification of genes involved in persistence. They identified the role of catalase-peroxidase KatG in preventing death from translation inhibitors Tigecycline and Linezolid. They further demonstrated that a combination of these translation inhibitors leads to the generation of ROS in PBS-starved cells.

      Strengths:

      The authors used high-throughput genomics-based methods for identification of genes playing a role in persistence.

      Weaknesses:

      The findings could not be validated in clinical strains.

      Comments on revisions: No more comments for the authors.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The authors are strongly encouraged to check the references. There is some systematic error in the citations of references. Started to list but then they were too many.

      For example Ln 51, Ref #11 cited, should be #10. Ln 59, #18 is wrongly cited. Should be - Ln 104. Ref #27 wrongly cited.

      Ref #26 and #28 identical.

      Even in discussion section a lot of references are mis-cited.

      We very much appreciate the reviewer catching this issue with the import of our references and we have corrected this.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Below I have listed comments on specific issues that I hope are useful during revision.

      Line 21 population is singular

      Text modified

      Line 21 comma after antibiotic (subordinate clause) Line

      Text modified

      25 is how singular?

      Text modified

      Impression of abstract: the work seems to confirm and therefore generalize concepts derived from studies with E. coli. If the authors agree, such a statement would be appropriate as a final sentence. I would also look for novel features to stress in the abstract.

      Line 41 this challenge is vague

      Text modified

      Line 43 comma such as (also comma at the end of the parenthetical statement). This type of comma error is common throughout the manuscript and slows reading.

      Text modified

      Line 60 paradoxically. Is this the best concept? Or is it the natural effect of evolution (assuming that mycobacteria or their ancestors were exposed to environmental antibiotics)?

      It is certainly problematic for clearing infection.

      Text not modified.

      Line 63 highlighted uncertainties ... meaning is unclear especially since you may have changed what "model" is referring to.

      Text modified

      Line 66 models.... Do you really mean systems? Models of what?

      This refers to mechanistic models. Text not modified.

      Line 67 arrest cell division. This is written as if it were true. Does the evidence point specifically to cell division or perhaps more accurately suppression of metabolism (see Ye et al 2025 mBio).

      Both have been postulated as important. Text modified to add concept of metabolism

      ... targeted by antibiotics non-essential... Do you think that antibiotics work by inactivating essential targets? That seems overly simplistic, as lethal action is more likely the metabolic response to the damage caused. By the end of the paragraph you come around to this view, but you have already misdirected the reader. The reader is not sure what to believe. Line 70 note that there are many inhibitors of transcription and translation that only block growth, they do not rapidly kill cells

      There can be both direct, and indirect secondary killing mechanisms. We devote a significant portion of the Discussion section to this topic.

      Line 71 debate. There was indeed a debate, but reference 22 is not a valid citation for this. I think you mislead the reader by not accurately describing the debate. It was basically about the inability of Kim Lewis and James Imlay to reproduce the work of ref. 22. A great deal of prior work and then subsequent work showed that the challenge to ref. 22 lacked substance.

      (1) Text modified to fix an error in the citation number related to direct β-lactam-mediated lysis.

      (2) We agree that there is a great deal of data supporting antibiotic-induced ROS as important for bactericidal activity in many circumstances and do not argue otherwise. This sentence points out that over the years the paradigm for how antibiotics kill bacteria has evolved.

      Line 80. It seems you are starting a new topic here. What about beginning a new paragraph?

      The paragraph introduces mycobacteria of which Mabs is one. Text not modified.

      Line 85 delete the comma: it implies a compound sentence that is not delivered.

      Text modified.

      Line 109 screen singular

      Text modified.

      Line 156 these conditions is imprecise and vague

      Conditions were described in paragraph above in the manuscript. Text not modified.

      Fig 2 it would be helpful to more clearly define the meaning of the coordinates

      Text modified.

      Line 230 and throughout please indicate the location of the data being cited for rapid reader reference

      Text modified.

      Lines 315-323 You could use this paragraph as the first of the Discussion. Some readers prefer to read the Discussion before the results. For them, a summary at the beginning of the Discussion is useful.

      Text modified.

      Line 328 without underlying mechanism... for E. coli refer to Zeng PNAS 2022. Depending on when the final version of this paper happens, there should be a figure in a Zhao Zhu mLife paper on purA that will have been published. Since it is not yet available, it cannot be cited.

      We agree that the Zeng et al study is interesting and have added this reference to our discussion. However, these findings related to broad Crp-regulated tolerance actually underscore the point that we are making: that there are multiple factors (Crp, RelA, Lon, TisB, MazE, others) that mediate antibiotic tolerance.

      Line 339 where are the data?

      These data are in Figure 5, panels C, D. We have clarified the text to indicate that only a single agent from each of these classes was tested.

      Line 346 here you are summarizing evidence for ROS in killing mycobacteria. You should include the moxifloxacin study by Shee et al 2022 AAC.

      Reference added.

      Line 348 refer to James Collins' work with E. coli in which his lab examined agents with a variety of mechanisms. There seems to be a fundamental difference between E. coli and mycobacteria with respect to rifampicin, a strictly static agent in E. coli but clearly lethal in mycobacteria. Note that chloramphenicol is static in E. coli and blocks ROS production. What does it do in mycobacteria? A brief discussion of this difference might be relevant at line 362

      Text modified.

      Lines 364-368 Here the idea might be simply that there are two modes of killing, one that is a direct extension of class-specific damage (chromosome fragmentation with fluoroquinolones, for example, or cell lysis by beta-lactams) and a second that is a metabolic response to the antibiotic damage (ROS accumulation). The second type is not class specific. Within this context, the mycobacterial killing by rifampicin might be a class-specific extension of inhibition of transcription that does not occur in E. coli.

      Agreed, text modified to include this.

      Line 400 The Key Resource table is not of publication quality. Precision and repeatability can be improved by spelling out the name of the vendor and its location (City, Country). In the present case, use of BD is lab jargon.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s precision. However, this is actually not lab jargon. Becton, Dickinson and Company now refers to itself as BD (see https://www.bd.com/en-us), and the American Type Culture Collection now refers to itself as ATCC (see https://www.atcc.org/about-us/who-we-are).

      Line 639 It would be good to have experienced colleagues critically review the manuscript, especially for English usage. Listing those persons here adds to the credibility of the work

      Text not changed.

      References: please refer to the journal style. Here you use italic for titles and scientific names, thereby obscuring the scientific names. Normally article titles are not italic and scientific names are ALWAYS italic unless prohibited by journal style.

      Our reference format is concordant with eLife submission guidelines, and all references are reformatted by the journal at the time of final publication (see https://elifesciences.org/insideelife/a43f95ca/elife-references-yes-we-take-any-format-no-we-re-not-rekeying).

      Supplemental Material: Please refer to journal style. Normally this is a stand-alone document that includes a title page and carefully crafted figure legends. Supplemental figures would be numbered as 1, 2, ... A professional appearing Supplemental Material section shows author publication experience not obvious in other parts of the paper. The text indicated MIC determinations. I would like to see a table of MIC values.

      (1) MIC table added as Supplemental Table 5.

      (2) The Supplemental figures are submitted and named in accordance with eLife instructions. Please note that for eLife, there is not a stand-alone supplementary figure section with a title page as you are requesting, but instead the figure supplements for each figure are provided as online files linked to each figure.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This manuscript by Feng et al. uses mouse models to study the embryonic origins of HSPCs. Using multiple types of genetic lineage tracing, the authors aimed to identify whether BM-resident endothelial cells retain hematopoietic capacity in adult organisms. Through an important mix of various labeling methodologies (and various controls), they reach the conclusion that BM endothelial cells contribute up to 3% of hematopoietic cells in young mice.

      Strengths:

      The major strength of the paper lies in the combination of various labeling strategies, including multiple Cdh5-CreER transgenic lines, different CreER lines (col1a2), and different reporters (ZsGreen, mTmG), including a barcoding-type reporter (PolyLox). This makes it highly unlikely that the results are driven by a rare artifact due to one random Cre line or one leaky reporter. The transplantation control (where the authors show no labeling of transplanted LSKs from the Cdh5 model) is also very supportive of their conclusions.

      We appreciate the Reviewer’s consideration of the strengths of our study supporting the identification of adult endothelial to hematopoietic transition (EHT) in the mouse bone marrow.

      Weaknesses:

      We believe that the work of ruling out alternative hypotheses, though initiated, was left incomplete. We specifically think that the authors need to properly consider whether there is specific, sparse labeling of HSPCs (in their native, non-transplant, model, in young animals). Polylox experiments, though an exciting addition, are also incomplete without additional controls. Some additional killer experiments are suggested.

      Recognizing the importance of the weaknesses pointed by the Reviewer, we provide below our response to the thoughtful recommendations rendered.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The main model is to label cells using Cdh5 (VE-cadherin) CreERT2 genetic tracing. Cdh5 is a typical marker of endothelial cells. The data shows that, when treating adults with tamoxifen, the model labels PBMCs after ~10 days, and the labeling kinetics plateau by day 14... The authors reach the main conclusion: that adult ECs are making hematopoietic cells.

      We agree that the main tool used in this study is to label endothelial cells (ECs) using Cdh5 (VE-Cadherin) CreERT2 genetic tracing in mice. Indeed, Cdh5 is recognized as a good marker of ECs. As a minor point, we wish to clarify that the results from treating adult Cdh5-CreERT2 mice with tamoxifen (Figure 1F) show that the ZsGreen labeling kinetics plateau by day 28 (not by day 14).

      Important controls should be shown to rule out alternative possibilities: namely, that the CreERT2 reporter is being sparsely expressed in HSPCs. Many markers, specific as they may seem to be, can show expression in non-specific lineages - particularly in the cases of BAC and PAC transgenic models, in which the transgene can be present in multiple tandem copies and subject to genome location-specific effects. As the authors remind readers, the Cdh5 gene is partly transcribed (though at low levels) in HSPCs, and even more clearly expressed in specific subpopulations such as CLPs, DCs, pDCs, B cells, etc. Some options would be to: i) check if the Cdh5-CreERT2 transgene (not endogenous Cdh5, but the BAC/PAC transgene) is expressed in LSKs (at least by qPCR), ii) verify if any CreERT2 protein levels are present in LSKs (e.g., by western blot), and iii) check if tamoxifen is labeling any HSPCs freshly after induction (e.g., flow cytometry data of ZsGreen LSKs at 24-48h post tamoxifen injection).

      We fully agree with the Reviewer that many markers, allegedly specific to a certain cell type, can show expression in other cell lineages. We also agree that excluding sparse or ectopic CreERT2 expression in hematopoietic stem and progenitor cells (HSPCs) is essential for interpreting lineage-tracing results. As suggested by the Reviewer, we have now examined if the Cdh5-CreERT2 transgene is expressed in bone marrow LSKs. To this end, we analyzed the Polylox single-cell RNAseq dataset presented in this study, containing ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> ECs and enriched ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> LSKs. As shown in the revised Figure S4D, CreERT2 transcripts were detected exclusively in Cdh5-expressing endothelial populations and were absent from Ptprc/CD45-expressing hematopoietic cells, except for plasmacytoid dendritic cells (pDCs; Figure S4E). These results are consistent with the RNAseq data from adult mouse bone marrow[1] showing that the Cdh5 gene is not expressed in HSPCs, CLPs, DCs, or B cells. Rather, among hematopoietic CD45<sup>+</sup> cells, Cdh5 is only expressed in a small subset of plasmacytoid dendritic cells (pDCs), which are terminally differentiated cells. These published results are described in the text.

      To further support this conclusion, we provide additional single-cell RNAseq analyses from our unpublished dataset of LSKs isolated from Cdh5-CreERT2/ZsGreen mice and not enriched for ZsGreen expression. These new analyses were performed after integrating the single-cell data from ECs and ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> hematopoietic cells from the Polylox dataset (current study). As shown in Author response images 1 and 2, CreERT2 expression closely matches the expression patterns of Cdh5, Pecam1, and Emcn and is not detected in Ptprc/CD45-expressing hematopoietic cells.

      Author response image 1.

      Expression of CreERT2, Cdh5, Ptprc and ZsGreen in BM cell populations enriched with ECs and hematopoietic cells. The single-cell RNAseq results are derived from ZsGreen-enriched BM ECs and ZsGreen-enriched BM hematopoietic cells were derived from Polylox lineage-tracing experiments (data shown in Fig. 5; 37,667 ECs and 48,065 BM hematopoietic cells) and from LSKs (23,017 cells) independently isolated from tamoxifen-treated Cdh5-CreERT2/ZsGreen mice without ZsGreen enrichment (unpublished data).

      Author response image 2.

      Expression of CreERT2, Cdh5, Ptprc, Pecam1, Emcn, ZsGreen1, Col1a2, Cd19, Cd3e, Itgam (CD11b), Ly6a (Sca-1), Kit(cKit), Cd34, Cd48, Slamf1 (CD150), and Siglech in enriched BM ECs and LSKs from Cdh5-CreERT2/ZsGreen mice treated with tamoxifen 4 weeks prior to harvest (same cell source as indicated in Author response image 1).

      Additionally, we functionally tested whether hematopoietic progenitors could acquire ZsGreen labeling following tamoxifen administration using transplantation assays (Figure 4A-D). ZsGreen<sup>-</sup> LSKs (purity 99%), sorted from Cdh5-CreERT2/ZsGreen donors that had never been exposed to tamoxifen to exclude background Cre leakiness, were transplanted into lethally irradiated wild-type recipients. After stable hematopoietic reconstitution, recipients were treated with tamoxifen. If transplanted HSPCs or their progeny expressed CreERT2, tamoxifen administration would be expected to induce ZsGreen labeling. However, no ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> hematopoietic cells were detected in these recipients, demonstrating that hematopoietic progenitors from Cdh5-CreERT2/ZsGreen and their descendants do not undergo tamoxifen-induced recombination.

      Together, the single-cell transcriptional and transplantation data demonstrate that CreERT2 expression and tamoxifen-induced recombination are restricted to Cdh5-expressing ECs (except for pDCs). These findings support the conclusion that ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> hematopoietic cells arise from adult bone marrow ECs rather than from contaminating hematopoietic progenitors.

      One important missing experiment is to trace how ECs actually do this hematopoietic conversion: meaning, which populations of HSPCs are being produced by adult ECs in the first instance? LT-HSCs? ST-HSCs? MPPs? GMPs? All of the above? What are the kinetics? Differentiation is likely to follow a hierarchical path, but this is unclear at the moment.

      We agree that defining the earliest EC-derived hematopoietic cell progenitors and the kinetics by which these progenitors appear (LT-HSC vs ST-HSC/MPP vs lineage-restricted progenitors) would provide important insights into adult EHT.

      In the current genetic labeling system, a rigorous kinetic analysis of hematopoietic cells first generated by EC-derived in vivo is not straightforward. Specifically, the low-level baseline reporter ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> fluorescence in hematopoietic cells (dependent on EHT occurring prenatally, perinatally or in young mice or other causes (Figure 1 A-D and Figure S1 D-I) impairs identification of newly generated ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> progenitors at early time points and distinguish them from baseline fluorescence. A potential solution might be to introduce serial harvests across multiple time-points in large mouse cohorts to capture rare transitional events with statistical significance.

      We wish to emphasize that the primary objective of this study was to establish whether adult bone marrow ECs have a hemogenic potential. Our data demonstrate adult EC-derived hematopoietic cell output that includes progenitor-containing fractions and multilineage mature progeny, under both steady-state conditions. We acknowledge that the current work does not resolve the order and kinetics of hematopoietic cell emergence following EHT. Therefore, under “Limitations of the study” we explicitly state this limitation and frame the identification of the earliest endothelial-derived progenitors and their kinetics as an important direction for future work.

      One warning sign is how rare the reported phenomenon is. Even when labeling almost 90% of the BM ECs, these make at most ~3% of blood (less than 1% in the transplants in Figure 4F, less than 0.5% in the col1a2 tracing in Figure 7). This means this is a very rare and/or transient phenomenon... The most major warning sign is the fast kinetics of labeling and the fast plateau. We know that: a) differentiation typically follows some hierarchy, b) in situ dynamics of blood production are slow (work by Rodewald and Höfer). Considering how fast these populations need to be replaced to reach a steady state so rapidly (as reported here, 2-4 weeks), the presumably specialized ECs would need to be steadily dividing and producing hematopoietic cells at a fast pace (as a side prediction, the adult "EHT" cluster would likely be highly Mki67+). More importantly, the ZsGreen LSKs produced by the ECs would have to undergo VERY rapid differentiation (much faster than normal LSKs) or otherwise, if 3% of them are produced by a top compartment (the BM ECs) every 4 weeks, then the labeled population would continue to grow with time. The authors could try to challenge this by testing if the ZsGreen LSKs undergo much faster differentiation kinetics or lower self-renewal (which does not seem to be the case, at least in their own transplantation data). We believe a more likely explanation is that the label is being acquired more or less non-specifically, directly across a bunch of HSPC populations.

      The Reviewer correctly notes that that the population of hemogenic ECs in the adult mouse bone marrow is small and the output of hematopoietic cells from these hemogenic ECs accounts for at most 3% of blood cells. We agree that delineating the kinetics by which hematopoietic cells are generated from adult EC is important, as this information would provide important insights into adult EHT.

      Nonetheless, we believe that the rapid appearance and early plateau of labeled blood cells in our experiments may not derive from a sustained, high-rate generation of labeled blood cells from self-renewing top-tier hematopoietic cell compartments, such as LT-HSCs. Rather, our data are more consistent with a predominantly lineage-restricted and biased hematopoietic progenitor cell population being the source of labeled blood cells. Supporting this interpretation, longitudinal analysis of peripheral blood shows that EGFP<sup>+</sup> PBMCs are consistently enriched with myeloid cells, whereas EGFP<sup>-</sup> PBMCs are predominantly B cells (Figure 4G and H). This myeloid lineage skewing is stable over time and contrasts with what would be expected if labeling were acquired broadly and nonspecifically across the hematopoietic hierarchy. Therefore, our results are more consistent with myeloid biased progenitors being among the first populations that EHT generates.

      We acknowledge that our studies do not identify the earliest endothelial-derived hematopoietic cells produced in vivo, and do not define their differentiation kinetics. Addressing rigorously these questions would require temporally resolved lineage tracing with sufficiently powered cohorts at early time point to statistically distinguish from baseline reporter background. These important experiments were beyond the scope of the present study. As noted above, under “Limitations of the study” we explicitly state this limitation and frame the identification of the earliest endothelial-derived progenitors and their kinetics as an important direction for future work.

      Transplant experiments in Figure 4 do offer a crucial experiment in support of the main conclusion of the manuscript. These experiments show that transplanted LSKs bearing the Cdh5-CreERT2 and ZsGreen reporter cannot acquire the tamoxifen-induced label post-transplantation - suggesting that the label is coming from ECs. However, it is also possible that the LSK Cdh5-CreERT expression is partly during the transplantation process... Indeed, we know through the aging data that the labeling is less active in aged mice. In any case, this would be verified by qPCR/western-blot (comparing native vs post-transplant LSKs).

      We agree with the Reviewer that the experiment in Figure 4A-D “offer a crucial experiment in support of the main conclusion of the manuscript.” The results of this experiment show that ZsGreen negative LSKs from the Cdh5-CreERT2-ZsGreen reporter mice do not acquire tamoxifen-induced ZsGreen fluorescence post transplantation, supporting the endothelial cell origin of blood ZsGreen<sup>+ </sup>cells.

      The Reviewer raises the possibility a “that the LSK Cdh5-CreERT expression is partly during the transplantation process... , and that this Cdh5-CreERT expression may occur slowly as learned “through the aging data that the labeling is less active in aged mice.” As we show in Figure 3F, tamoxifen administration induced a similar percentage of ZsGreen<sup>+ </sup>ECs in the bone marrow of Cdh5-Cre<sup>ERT2</sup>(BAC)/ZsGreen mice, whether tamoxifen was administered to 6-week-old, 16-week-old, 26-week-old or 36-week-old mice. Similar results with Cdh5-CreERT2 (BAC) mice are reported in the literature[2]. Since the mice transplanted with ZsGreen<sup>-</sup> LSKs were followed for 25 weeks after tamoxifen administration, we believe that the results in Figure 4A-D address the concern raised by the Reviewer.

      Supporting the conclusion that LSKs from the Cdh5-CreERT2-ZsGreen reporter mice do not express the Cdh5-CreERT2 under a native -non-transplant- setting, we now provide transcriptomic data from Cdh5-CreERT2/ZsGreen mice (not transplanted) showing that CreERT2 expression closely tracks with expression of canonical endothelial markers (Cdh5, Pecam1, Emcn) and is not detectable in Ptprc/CD45-expressing hematopoietic cells (Author response images 1 and 2). These data were obtained from non-transplanted mice treated with tamoxifen at ~12 weeks of age and analyzed four weeks later. Together, these results indicate that CreERT2 expression is endothelial-restricted in Cdh5-CreERT2-ZsGreen reporter mice.

      Figure 5 presents PolyLox experiments to challenge whether adult ECs produce hematopoietic cells through in situ barcoding. Several important details of the experiment are missing in the main text (how many cells were labeled, at which time point, how long after induction were the cells sampled, how many bones/BM-cells were used for the sample preparation, what was the sampling rate per population after sorting, how many total barcodes were detected per population, how many were discarded/kept, what was the clone-size/abundance per compartment). As presented, the authors imply that 31 out of ~200 EC barcodes are shared with hematopoietic cells... This would suggest that ~15% of endothelial cells are producing hematopoietic cells at steady state. This does not align well with the rarity of the behavior and the steady state kinetics (unless any BM EC could stochastically produce hematopoietic cells every couple of weeks, or if the clonality of the BM EC compartment would be drastically reduced during the pulse-chase overlap with mesenchymal cells. Important controls are missing, such as what would be the overlap with a population that is known to be phylogenetically unrelated (e.g., how many of these barcodes would be found by random chance at this same Pgen cut-off in a second induced mouse). Also, the Pgen value could be plotted directly to see whether the clones with more overlapping populations/cells (3HG, 127, 125, CBA) also have a higher Pgen. We posit that there are large numbers of hematopoietic clones that contribute to adult hematopoiesis (anywhere from 2,000-20,000 clones would be producing granulocytes after 16 weeks post chase), and it would be easy to find clones that overlap with granulocytes (the most abundant and easily sampled population) - HSPCs would be the more stringent metric.

      We thank the Reviewer for highlighting the need for a more detailed description of the Polylox experiments. To address this deficiency, we have compiled a document (Additional Supplementary Information file) containing all the specifics of the Polylox experimental and analytical parameters in one location. This includes: (i) the number of cells analyzed per population, (ii) the time points of induction and sample collection, (iii) the number of bones and total bone marrow cells used for preparation, (iv) the sampling rate following cell sorting, (v) the total number of detected barcodes per population, (vi) barcode filtering criteria and numbers retained or discarded, and (vii) clone-size and barcode number across cell compartments. We have updated the manuscript to refer readers to this Supplementary file.

      The Reviewer concluded from our results (Figure 5, Figure S5) that 31 out of ~200 endothelial cell (EC) barcodes shared with hematopoietic cells (HCs), implying that ~15% of ECs produce hematopoietic cell progeny at steady state. This interpretation in inconsistent with our data showing the rare nature of adult EHT and would require either that a large fraction of bone-marrow ECs can generate hematopoietic cells within short time windows, or that EC would clonally expand rapidly during the pulse-chase period, as noted by the Reviewer. The explanation for this apparent problem is technical. Briefly, the ~200 EC barcodes recovered do not represent all barcoded ECs. During Polylox barcode library construction, a mandatory size-selection step is applied prior to PacBio sequencing, retaining fragments that are approximately 800–1500 bp in length, whereas the full Polylox cassette spans ~2800 bp. This is mainly because the PacBio sequencer requires that the library be either 800-1500bp or over 2500bp, for optimal sequencing results. As described in the original Polylox publication[3,4], this size selection eliminates most (approximately 75%) longer barcodes, together with ~85% of the shorter barcodes. Thus, ECs harboring very long or short recombined barcodes are under-represented or excluded from sequencing. As a result, the 22 true barcodes linking ECs and HCs recovered from sequencing do not indicate that ~10–15% of ECs generate hematopoietic progeny. Rather, these barcodes represent a highly selected subset of ECs with barcode configurations compatible with library recovery and sequencing. The observed EC–HC barcode sharing thus reflects qualitative lineage connectivity, not the quantitative frequency of endothelial-derived hematopoiesis at steady state.

      The Reviewer correctly notes that true Polylox barcodes are shared by ECs and mesenchymal-type cells and asks that we examine whether this overlap could occur by chance alone. The Polylox filtering threshold (pGen < 1 × 10<sup>-6</sup>), that we have revised for stringency (from pGen < 1 × 10<sup>-4</sup>, without altering the essential results; new Figure S4 and revised Figure 5C-F) renders such overlap exceedingly unlikely. At this threshold, the expected number of random recombination events among 4,069 barcoded cells is approximately 0.004. Consequently, among the 87 mesenchymal cells identified here, fewer than 0.4 cells would be expected, to share a barcode with another cell by chance alone. Thus, the probability of recovering identical barcodes across unrelated lineages due to random recombination is vanishingly small, and the observed EC–mesenchymal barcode sharing substantially exceeds random expectation.

      Related to this observation, the Reviewer correctly notes that the endothelial and mesenchymal cell lineages are phylogenetically unrelated. However, endothelial-to-mesenchymal cell transition (EndMT), the process by which normal ECs completely or partially lose their endothelial identity and acquire expression of mesenchymal markers, is a well-established process that occurs physiologically and in disease states (Simons M Curr Opin Physiol 2023). In the bone marrow, the occurrence of EndMT has been documented in patients with myelofibrosis, and the process affects the bone marrow microvasculature (Erba BG et al The Amer J Patholl 2017). Single-cell RNAseq of non-hematopoietic bone marrow cells has shown the existence of a rare population of ECs that co-expresses endothelial cell markers (Cdh5, Kdr, Emcm and others) and the mesenchymal cell markers, as shown in Figure 6E and F.

      We fully agree with the Reviewer that given the large number of hematopoietic clones contributing to adult hematopoiesis -particularly granulocyte-producing clones- it may be relatively easy to detect barcode overlap with abundant mature populations, whereas overlap with HSPCs would represent a more stringent and informative metric of lineage relationships. The Polylox results presented here show the sharing of true barcodes between individual ECs and HSPC.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Feng, Jing-Xin et al. studied the hemogenic capacity of the endothelial cells in the adult mouse bone marrow. Using Cdh5-CreERT2 in vivo inducible system, though rare, they characterized a subset of endothelial cells expressing hematopoietic markers that were transplantable. They suggested that the endothelial cells need the support of stromal cells to acquire blood-forming capacity ex vivo. These endothelial cells were transplantable and contributed to hematopoiesis with ca. 1% chimerism in a stress hematopoiesis condition (5-FU) and recruited to the peritoneal cavity upon Thioglycolate treatment. Ultimately, the authors detailed the blood lineage generation of the adult endothelial cells in a single cell fashion, suggesting a predominant HSPCs-independent blood formation by adult bone marrow endothelial cells, in addition to the discovery of Col1a2+ endothelial cells with blood-forming potential, corresponding to their high Runx1 expressing property.

      The conclusion regarding the characterization of hematopoietic-related endothelial cells in adult bone marrow is well supported by data. However, the paper would be more convincing, if the function of the endothelial cells were characterized more rigorously.

      We thank the Reviewer for the supportive comments about our study.

      (1) Ex vivo culture of CD45-VE-Cadherin+ZsGreen EC cells generated CD45+ZsGreen+ hematopoietic cells. However, given that FACS sorting can never achieve 100% purity, there is a concern that hematopoietic cells might arise from the ones that got contaminated into the culture at the time of sorting. The sorting purity and time course analysis of ex vivo culture should be shown to exclude the possibility.

      We agree that FACS sorting can never achieve 100% cell purity and that sorting purity is critical for interpreting the ex vivo culture experiments presented in our study. As requested by the Reviewer, we have now documented the purity of the sorted endothelial cell (EC) population used in the ex vivo culture experiments. The post-sort purity of CD45<sup->/sup>VE-cadherin<sup>+</sup>ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> ECs was 96.5 %; this data is now shown in the revised Figure 2B (Post Sort Purity panel). This purity level is comparable to purity levels of sorted ECs shown in Figure S2I (94.5 %).

      While we agree that a detailed time-course analysis of hematopoietic cell output from EC cultures could further strengthen the conclusion that bone marrow ECs can produce hematopoietic cells ex vivo, we wish to call attention to the additional critical control in the experiment shown in Figure 2B-D. In this experiment, we co-cultured CD45<sup>+</sup>ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> hematopoietic cells from Cdh5-CreERT2/ZsGreen mice, rather than ECs, and examined if these hematopoietic cells could produce ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> cell progeny after 8-week culture under the same conditions used in EC co-cultures (conditions not designed to support hematopoietic cells long-term). Unlike ECs, the CD45<sup>+</sup>ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> hematopoietic cells did not generate ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> hematopoietic cells at the end of the 8-week culture, indicating that the culture conditions are not permissive for the maintenance, proliferation and differentiation of hematopoietic cells. This provides strong evidence that even if few hematopoietic cells contaminated the sorted ECs, these hematopoietic cells would not contribute to EC-derived production of hematopoietic cells at the 8-week time-point. We have revised the text of the results describing the results of Figure 2B-D.

      (2) Although it was mentioned in the text that the experimental mice survived up to 12 weeks after lethal irradiation and transplantation, the time-course kinetics of donor cell repopulation (>12 weeks) would add a precise and convincing evaluation. This would be absolutely needed as the chimerism kinetics can allow us to guess what repopulation they were (HSC versus progenitors). Moreover, data on either bone marrow chimerism assessing phenotypic LT-HSC and/or secondary transplantation would dramatically strengthen the manuscript.

      The original manuscript reported survival and engraftment up to 12 weeks post transplantation. The recipient mice have now been monitored for up to 10 months post transplantation. These extended survival and engraftment data are now included in the revised Figure 2I and J replacing the previous 10-week analyses.

      We agree with the Reviewer that the time-course kinetics of donor cell repopulation would help define adult endothelial to hematopoietic transition (EHT) and the hematopoietic cell types produced by adult (EHT). We did not perform serial time-course sampling of peripheral blood beyond the 10-week and the 10-month time-points. Given that the recipient mice were lethally irradiated with increased susceptibility to infection, we sought to minimize repeated interventions that could compromise animal health and survival. We therefore prioritized long-term survival and endpoint analysis over repeated longitudinal sampling. Nonetheless, the long-term survival,10 months, and multilineage hematopoietic cell reconstitution after lethal irradiation provides functional evidence that adult EHT produced at least some LT-HSC.

      We acknowledge that phenotypic assessment of bone marrow LT-HSC chimerism /or secondary transplantation would further strengthen the manuscript. We have clarified these limitations in the revised manuscript under “Limitations of the study”.

      (3) The conclusion by the authors, which says "Adult EHT is independent of pre-existing hematopoietic cell progenitors", is not fully supported by the experimental evidence provided (Figure 4 and Figure S3). More recipients with ZsGreen+ LSK must be tested.

      We agree with the Reviewer that, in most cases, a larger number of experimental data points is helpful to strengthen the conclusions, and that having additional mice transplanted with ZsGreen-enriched LSK would be desirable. However, we do not believe that additional mice transplanted with ZsGreen LSKs would strengthen the conclusions drawn from the experimental results shown in Figure 4D, in which we used 6 mice transplanted with ZsGreen-depleted (ZsGreen<sup>-</sup>) LSKs and 2 mice transplanted with ZsGreen<sup>+</sup>-enriched (ZsGreen<sup>+</sup>) LSKs. The independence of adult EHT from “pre-existing hematopoietic cell progenitors” is based on the following experimental results and conclusion from these results.

      First, ZsGreen<sup>-</sup> LSKs (purity 99%) isolated from Cdh5-CreERT2/ZsGreen mice were transplanted into lethally irradiated WT recipients (n = 6). These ZsGreen<sup>-</sup> LSKs robustly reconstituted hematopoiesis, demonstrating successful engraftment. Importantly, tamoxifen administration to the recipients of ZsGreen<sup>-</sup> LSKs produced no detectable ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> cells in the blood for up to 6 months post transplantation (Figure 4D, blue line encompassing the results of the 6 mice). This result demonstrates that the transplanted ZsGreen<sup>-</sup> hematopoietic progenitors and their progeny do not acquire ZsGreen labeling in vivo following tamoxifen treatment, indicating that they lack the Cre-recombinase. This result is consistent with the endothelial specificity of Cdh5 expression.

      Second, ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> LSKs (accounting for ~50% of the LSKs) isolated from Cdh5-CreERT2/ZsGreen mice were transplanted into lethally irradiated WT recipients (n = 2). This arm of the experiment was performed in part as a technical control to confirm successful engraftment and detection of ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> hematopoietic cells in the transplant setting. Importantly, tamoxifen administration to the two recipients of ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> LSKs (Figure 4D, two green lines reflecting these two mice) show that the level of ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> blood cells stabilized in each of the mice between week 10 and 24, showing equilibrium between the proportion of ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> and ZsGreen<sup>-</sup>cells in the blood. This indicates that pre-existing ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> LSK are not responsible for tamoxifen-induced increases in ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> hematopoietic cell in blood.

      Together, the results from this experiment demonstrate that in the setting of transplantation, tamoxifen does not induce ZsGreen labeling of ZsGreen- hematopoietic progenitors/their progeny. This result strongly supports the conclusion that ZsGreen⁺ hematopoietic cells arise independently of pre-existing or inducible hematopoietic progenitors. We have revised the text to clarify these experiments and to present the results in a simplified manner.

      Strengths:

      The authors used multiple methods to characterize the blood-forming capacity of the genetically - and phenotypically - defined endothelial cells from several reporter mouse systems. The polylox barcoding method to trace the adult bone marrow endothelial cell contribution to hematopoiesis is a strong insight to estimate the lineage contribution.

      Weaknesses:

      It is unclear what the biological significance of the blood cells de novo generated from the adult bone marrow endothelial cells is. Moreover, since the frequency is very rare (<1% bone marrow and peripheral blood CD45+), more data regarding its identity (function, morphology, and markers) are needed to clearly exclude the possibility of contamination/mosaicism of the reporter mice system used.

      We agree that the biological significance and functional roles of hematopoietic cells generated de novo from adult bone marrow ECs remain important open questions. We also agree that the output of hematopoietic cells from adult EHT is low, but rare events can be important, particularly as they pertain to stem/progenitor cell biology. Both points are described under “Limitations of the study”. The primary goal of the present study was to address the question whether adult bone marrow ECs can undergo EHT. We believe that the combination of various mouse transgenic lines, different Cre-ER, different reporters (ZsGreen and mTmG), including the s.c. barcoding reporter (PolyloxExpress), different approaches to evaluate hematopoiesis in vivo and ex vivo, makes it rather unlikely that our conclusions are driven by an artifact related to a specific leaky reporter, contamination, or problems with one of the Cre-lines. The experiment where we find no tamoxifen-induced labeling of transplanted ZsGreen<sup>-</sup> LSKs derived from the Cdh5-CreERT2/ZsGreen mice is strongly supportive of the existence of adult EHT, virtually excluding a contribution of contaminant hematopoietic cells.

      Reviewer 2 Recommendations for the authors:

      (1) There is a discrepancy in the proportion of peripheral blood composition between different reporters (mTmG and ZsGreen) (Figure 1G and Figure S1K), especially the contrasting B cell proportion between both models. The additional comments on this data should be mentioned.

      In the revised Results section, we now note that the mTmG and ZsGreen reporters show slightly different efficiencies or kinetics of labeling. These differences have previously been reported[5] and have been attributed to relative reporter leakiness, sensitivity to tamoxifen, or different kinetics of Cre recombination. As suggested, these comments have been added to the text following the description of (Figure S2A).

      (2) Experimental methods concerning cell transplantation/transfer need more information, such as: a) using or not using rescue cells and how many cells are they if using, b) single or split dose of irradiation, c) when were cells transplanted following irradiation, etc. Otherwise, the data are uninterpretable.

      We have ensured that the Material and Methods section under “Bone marrow ablation and transplantation” contains all the information requested by the Reviewer.

      (3) Some of the grouped data haven't been statistically analyzed.

      We have reviewed all data and performed appropriate statistical analyses where comparisons were made. In the revised figures and legends, all grouped datasets now include statistical tests and p-values are indicated (added to Fig. 3H and I; Figure 4G).

      (4) Some flowcytometry plot has the quantitative number, others do not. The quantitative information is absolutely needed in all flow cytometry plots.

      We have updated the flow cytometry figures to include quantitative values (percentages or absolute counts) in all relevant plots (2B (new figure, bottom left); 2C; S1G, S1H).

      (5) It is more relevant to present the Emcn/VE-Cadherin plot from gated CD45+/ZsGreen+, not the CD45-/ZsGreen+ fraction (Figure 2C), as the latter were not the EHT-derived offspring, but rather the common phenotypic endothelial cells

      As requested, we have added the suggested flow cytometry plot. The revised Figure 2C now includes an Emcn vs. VE-Cadherin plot from the gated CD45<sup>+</sup>ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> population. This complements the existing panel and confirms that the cells of interest retain endothelial cell markers after culture, while the CD45<sup>+</sup>ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> cells did not express endothelial markers. The figure legend has been updated to explain the new panel. We agree that this plot more directly highlights the phenotype of the presumed EHT-derived cells.

      (6) To show the effect of the ex vivo culture, the authors should present the absolute number of CD45+ZsGreen+ cells in the pre-/post-culture; otherwise, the data are uninterpretable (Figure 2D).

      Our interpretation of the Reviewer’s comment above (relative to the experiment shown in Figure 2B-D) is that the Reviewer would like that we provide the absolute number of CD45<sup>+</sup>ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> cells introduced into the co-culture (supplemented with unsorted BM cells, ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> hematopoietic cell or ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> ECs) and the absolute number of CD45<sup>+</sup>ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> cells recovered at the end of the 8-week culture. Currently, the results in Figure 2D show the absolute number of CD45<sup>+</sup>ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> cells recovered at the end of the 8-week culture. The input of CD45<sup>+</sup>ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> cells for unsorted BM cells was 2.93e6 on average; for ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> hematopoietic cells was 1.68e6 on average and from sorted ZsGreen<sup>+</sup> ECs was estimate up to 100.

      (7) It is confusing to see Figures 2F and 2G, which apparently show the data from the middle of the experimental procedure (Figure 2E). Those data should be labelled clearly regarding which procedures of the whole experiment protocol.

      As correctly noted by the Reviewer, Figures 2F and 2G provide data that relate to the middle of the graphical representation of the experiment shown in Figure 2E. We see how this may be confusing.

      Therefore, we have updated both the figure labeling and legend to explicitly indicate that Figure 2F and 2G provide the FACS sorting results for the cells used for transplantation. The revised legend now reads: “Representative flow cytometry plots of the non-adherent cell fraction after 8 weeks of co-culture (cells used for transplantation).”

      References

      (1) Kucinski, I., Campos, J., Barile, M., Severi, F., Bohin, N., Moreira, P.N., Allen, L., Lawson, H., Haltalli, M.L.R., Kinston, S.J., et al. (2024). A time- and single-cell-resolved model of murine bone marrow hematopoiesis. Cell Stem Cell 31, 244-259.e10. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.stem.2023.12.001.

      (2) Identification of a clonally expanding haematopoietic compartment in bone marrow | The EMBO Journal | Springer Nature Link https://link.springer.com/article/10.1038/emboj.2012.308.

      (3) Pei, W., Shang, F., Wang, X., Fanti, A.-K., Greco, A., Busch, K., Klapproth, K., Zhang, Q., Quedenau, C., Sauer, S., et al. (2020). Resolving Fates and Single-Cell Transcriptomes of Hematopoietic Stem Cell Clones by PolyloxExpress Barcoding. Cell Stem Cell 27, 383-395.e8. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.stem.2020.07.018.

      (4) Pei, W., Feyerabend, T.B., Rössler, J., Wang, X., Postrach, D., Busch, K., Rode, I., Klapproth, K., Dietlein, N., Quedenau, C., et al. (2017). Polylox barcoding reveals haematopoietic stem cell fates realized in vivo. Nature 548, 456–460. https://doi.org/10.1038/nature23653.

      (5) Álvarez-Aznar, A., Martínez-Corral, I., Daubel, N., Betsholtz, C., Mäkinen, T., and Gaengel, K. (2020). Tamoxifen-independent recombination of reporter genes limits lineage tracing and mosaic analysis using CreERT2 lines. Transgenic Res 29, 53–68. https://doi.org/10.1007/s11248-019-00177-8.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      eLife Assessment

      This study provides useful insights into addressing the question of whether the prevalence of autoimmune disease could be driven by sex differences in the T cell receptor (TCR) repertoire, correlating with higher rates of autoimmune disease in females. The authors compare male and female TCR repertoires using bulk RNA sequencing, from sorted thymocyte subpopulations in pediatric and adult human thymuses; however, the results do not provide sufficient analytical rigor and incompletely support the central claims.

      The statement in the editorial assessment that our study “does not provide sufficient analytical rigor” surprised us. TCR repertoire analysis is indeed a highly complex domain, both experimentally and computationally. We consider ourselves to be leading experts in this field and have invested a great deal of effort to ensure the rigor and reproducibility of every analytical step.

      Specifically, our group has previously benchmarked and published validated methodologies for the following areas: (i) TCR repertoire generation (Barennes et al., Nat Biotechnol 2021), (ii) repertoire analysis (Six et al., Frontiers in Immunol, 2013; Chaara et al., Frontiers in Immunol, 2018; Ritvo et al., PNAS, 2018; Mhanna et al., Diabetes, 2021; Trück et al., eLife, 2021; Quiniou et al., eLife, 2023; Mhanna et al., Cell Rep Methods, 2024; Mhanna et al., Nat Rev Primers Methods, 2024), and (iii) the curation and quality control of public TCR databases (Jouannet et al., NAR Genomics and Bioinformatics 2025). The current study applies these optimized and peer-reviewed pipelines, along with additional internal quality controls that we have been implemented over the years, ensuring the highest possible analytical standards for TCR repertoire studies.

      We therefore respectfully feel that the phrase “insufficient analytical rigor” does not accurately reflect the methodological robustness of our work. This perception is also in contrast to the comment made by one of the reviewers, who explicitly noted that “overall, the methodologies appear to be sound.”

      We would therefore be grateful if, upon reviewing our detailed point-by-point responses, the editors could reconsider this statement and tone it down in the final editorial summary.

      With regard to comment that our results “incompletely support the central claims”, we will leave it to the reader’s judgement. We believe that our work provides a robust and transparent basis for future research into TCR repertoire, autoimmunity, and women’s health.

      Reviewer 1 (Public reviews):

      Summary

      The goal of this paper was to determine whether the T cell receptor (TCR) repertoire differs between a male and a female human. To address this, this group sequenced TCRs from doublepositive and single-positive thymocytes in male and female humans of various ages. Such an analysis on sorted thymocyte subsets has not been performed in the past. The only comparable dataset is a pediatric thymocyte dataset where total thymocytes were sorted.

      They report on participant ages and sexes, but not on ethnicity, race, nor provide information about HLA typing of individuals. Though the experiments themselves are heroic, they do represent a relatively small sampling of diverse humans. They observed no differences in TCRbeta or TCRalpha usage, combinational diversity, or differences in the length of the CDR3 region, or amino acid usage in the CD3aa region between males or females. Though they observed some TCRbeta CD3aa sequence motifs that differed between males and females, these findings could not be replicated using an external dataset and therefore were not generalizable to the human population.

      They also compared TCRbeta sequences against those identified in the past using computational approaches to recognize cancer-, bacterial-, viral-, or autoimmune-antigens. They found very little overlap of their sequences with these annotated sequences (depending on the individual, ranging from 0.82-3.58% of sequences). Within the sequences that were in overlap, they found that certain sequences against autoimmune or bacterial antigens were significantly over-represented in female versus male CD8 SP cells. Since no other comparable dataset is available, they could not conclude whether this is a finding that is generalizable to the human population.

      Strengths:

      This is a novel dataset. Overall, the methodologies appear to be sound. There was an attempt to replicate their findings in cases where an appropriate dataset was available. I agree that there are no gross differences in TCR diversity between males and females.

      We appreciate the positive feedback from the reviewer regarding these points.

      Weaknesses:

      Overall, the sample size is small given that it is an outbred population. The cleaner experiment would have been to study the impact of sex in a number of inbred MHC I/II identical mouse strains or in humans with HLA-identical backgrounds.

      We respectfully disagree with the reviewer’s statement. We firmly believe that the issue we are dealing with, namely sex-based differences in thymic TCR selection relevant to autoimmunity, should be investigated more thoroughly in the general human population than in inbred mouse models.

      While inbred mouse strains, being MHC I/II identical, eliminate the complexity of MHC variation, this comes at the cost of biological relevance. Firstly, a discrepancy in TCR generation or selection may only become apparent under specific MHC contexts, which could easily be overlooked when studying a single inbred strain. Secondly, inbred strains frequently contain fixed genetic variants that may influence thymic selection or immune regulation. This has the potential to introduce confounding effects rather than reducing them and not solving the generalization issue.

      We are in full agreement that an HLA-matched human cohort would reduce inter-individual variability. However, such sampling is impossible in practice, as our thymic tissues were obtained from deceased organ donors, a collection effort that was, as the reviewer rightly noted, “heroic”. Despite these inherent limitations, the patterns we observed were consistent across multiple analytical approaches, lending robustness to our findings.

      We now explicitly acknowledge this limitation in the Discussion of the revised manuscript and explain why, despite this constraint, our study provides meaningful and biologically relevant insights into human TCR selection and sex-related immune differences.

      It is unclear whether there was consensus between the three databases they used regarding the antigens recognized by the TCR sequences. Given the very low overlap between the TCR sequences identified in these databases and their dataset, and the lack of replication, they should tone down their excitement about the CD8 T cell sequences recognizing autoimmune and bacterial antigens being over-represented in females.

      The three databases used in this study - McPAS-TCR, IEDB, and VDJdb - provide complementary and partially non-overlapping specificity landscapes. McPAS-TCR is enriched for pathology-associated TCRs, while IEDB and VDJdb contain a higher proportion of viral specificities. Combining them therefore broadens the antigenic spectrum accessible for analysis and represents the most comprehensive approach currently possible to capture the diversity of TCR–antigen annotations.

      With regard to the limited overlap between our dataset and these databases, this observation should be interpreted with caution. While the overlap may appear minimal at first glance, it is a biologically significant phenomenon. The public databases collectively contain only a minute fraction of the total universe of TCR specificities, estimated to exceed 10<sup>15-21</sup> possible receptors in humans. In this context, the observation of any overlap at all, particularly with coherent biological patterns such as the overrepresentation of autoimmune- and bacterialassociated TCRs in females, is noteworthy.

      We have included a short clarification in the Discussion of the revised manuscript to make this point explicit and to further temper the language describing this finding.

      The dataset could be valuable to the community.

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting the potential value of this dataset to the community. It will be made publicly available on the NCBI website. We would like to clarify that our intention has always been to make this dataset publicly available; therefore, we take back any incorrect suggestions made in the original submission.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I would just recommend toning down the excitement about autoimmune TCRs being overrepresented in females. Then the conclusions will be in alignment with their results.

      We thank the reviewer for this constructive recommendation. We would like to express our full support for the editorial transparency policies of eLife, which allow readers to access to both the reviewers’ comments and our detailed responses, enabling them to form their own informed opinions regarding our conclusions.

      Nevertheless, we have moderated some of our wording.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study addresses the hypothesis that the strikingly higher prevalence of autoimmune diseases in women could be the result of biased thymic generation or selection of TCR repertoires. The biological question is important, and the hypothesis is valuable. Although the topic is conceptually interesting and the dataset is rich, the study has a number of major issues that require substantial improvement. In several instances, the authors conclude that there are no sex-associated differences for specific parameters, yet inspection of the data suggests visible trends that are not properly quantified. The authors should either apply more appropriate statistical approaches to test these trends or provide stronger evidence that the observed differences are not significant. In other analyses, the authors report the differences between sexes based on a pulled analysis of TCR sequences from all the donors, which could result in differences driven by one or two single donors (e.g., having particular HLA variants) rather than reflect sex-related differences.

      Strengths:

      The key strength of this work is the newly generated dataset of TCR repertoires from sorted thymocyte subsets (DP and SP populations). This approach enables the authors to distinguish between biases in TCR generation (DP) and thymic selection (SP). Bulk TCR sequencing allows deeper repertoire coverage than single-cell approaches, which is valuable here, although the absence of TRA-TRB pairing and HLA context limits the interpretability of antigen specificity analyses. Importantly, this dataset represents a valuable community resource and should be openly deposited rather than being "available upon request."

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting the potential value of this dataset to the community. It will be made publicly available on the NCBI website. We would like to clarify that our intention has always been to make this dataset publicly available; therefore, we take back any incorrect suggestions made in the original submission.

      Weaknesses:

      Major:

      The authors state that there is "no clear separation in PCA for both TRA and TRB across all subsets." However, Figure 2 shows a visible separation for DP thymocytes (especially TRA, and to a lesser degree TRB) and also for TRA of Tregs. This apparent structure should be acknowledged and discussed rather than dismissed.

      We thank the reviewer for this careful observation. Discussing apparent “trends” rather than statistically significant results is indeed a nuanced issue, as over-interpretation of visual patterns is usually discouraged. We agree that, within the specific context of TCR repertoire analyses, visual structures in multivariate projections such as PCA can provide useful contextual information.

      However, we have not identified a striking trend in our representation. We therefore chose to avoid overemphasizing these visual impressions in the text.

      Supplementary Figures 2-5 involve many comparisons, yet no correction for multiple testing appears to be applied. After appropriate correction, all the reported differences would likely lose significance. These analyses must be re-evaluated with proper multiple-testing correction, and apparent differences should be tested for reproducibility in an external dataset (for example, the pediatric thymus and peripheral blood repertoires later used for motif validation).

      As is standard in exploratory immunogenomic studies, including TCR repertoire analyses, our objective was to uncover broad biological patterns rather than to establish definitive statistical associations. In analyses that are discovery-oriented, correction for multiple testing, while essential in confirmatory contexts, is not mandatory and may even obscure meaningful trends by inflating type II error rates. Our objective was therefore to highlight consistent directional patterns across analytical layers, to guide future confirmatory work rather than to make categorical claims.

      We also note that this comment somewhat contrasts with the earlier suggestion to discuss trends that are not statistically significant.

      With regard to the proposal to verify our observations using an external dataset, we are in full agreement that independent confirmation would be beneficial. However, as reviewer 1 rightly emphasized, the generation of such datasets from sorted human thymocyte subsets is “heroic” and has rarely, if ever, been achieved. We are aware of no existing dataset that provides comparable material or analytical depth.

      The available single-cell thymic dataset (Park et al., Science 2020) includes only a few hundred sequences per donor, which is significantly less than the number of sequences in our study. This limited dataset is not adequate for cross-validation or for representing the full complexity of thymic TCR repertoires.

      As with the pediatric thymus dataset, the lack of statistical power in the dataset due to the small number of female subjects (only three) means that sex-related differences in V/J usage cannot be evaluated.

      Finally, the peripheral blood dataset is not appropriate for validating thymic generation or selection processes, as it reflects post-thymic selection and antigen-driven remodeling, making it impossible to distinguish peripheral effects from thymic influences.

      For these reasons, none of the currently available datasets provides a sufficiently clean or powerful framework to test the reproducibility of subtle sex-associated effects on thymic TCR repertoires. Nevertheless, we fully agree that confirmation in an independent and larger cohort will be an important next step to refine these exploratory findings and assess their generalizability to a broader human population.

      Supplementary Figure 6 suggests that women consistently show higher Rényi entropies across all subsets. Although individual p-values are borderline, the consistent direction of change is notable. The authors should apply an integrated statistical test across subsets (for example, a mixed-effects model) to determine whether there is an overall significant trend toward higher diversity in females.

      We agree that Rényi entropies tend to show a consistent direction of change across subsets, with slightly higher values observed in females. In this section, our objective was to provide a descriptive overview of diversity patterns for each thymic subset. This is because these subsets are biologically distinct and therefore require individual analysis, as we previously demonstrated using the same dataset (Isacchini et al, PRX Life. 2024). Therefore, while a mixed-effects approach could in principle be applied to test for an overall trend, such an analysis would rely on the assumption of a common sex effect across heterogeneous cell types.

      It is important to note that the complete dataset has now been made publicly available, enabling interested researchers to perform additional integrative or model-based analyses to further explore these diversity trends.

      Figures 4B and S8 clearly indicate enrichment of hydrophobic residues in female CDR3s for both TRA and TRB (excluding alanine, which is not strongly hydrophobic). Because CDR3 hydrophobicity has been linked to increased cross-reactivity and self-reactivity (see, e.g., Stadinski et al., Nat Immunol 2016), this observation is biologically meaningful and consistent with higher autoimmune susceptibility in females.

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful comment.

      As correctly noted, increased hydrophobicity at specific CDR3β positions has been linked to enhanced cross-reactivity and self-reactivity, as described by Stadinski et al. (Nat Immunol 2016), and we reference this work in the manuscript.

      In our analysis corresponding to Figure 4B (TRB), hydrophobicity was quantified at the sequence level by computing, for each unique CDR3β sequence, the overall proportion of hydrophobic amino acids across the CDR3 loop. This approach aligns with that of Lagattuta et al. (Nat Immunol 2022), whose code we adapted to accommodate longer CDR3s. This global hydrophobicity metric captures overall composition, but, by its construction, does not account for positional context, the key mechanism implicated by Stadinski et al.

      As outlined in our original Figure 4C, the results were obtained through a position-based amino acid analysis. For each CDR3β sequence, we extracted the amino acid at every IMGTdefined CDR3 position (p104–p118) and quantified, at each position, the percentage of unique sequences containing each amino acid. Positions p109 and p110 correspond to the p6–p7 sites highlighted by Stadinski et al. as functionally relevant for self-reactivity. This analysis evaluates positional composition independently of clonotype frequency, focusing specifically on hydrophobic amino acid classes.

      Following the recommendation of the reviewer, the revised manuscript has removed alanine (which is only weakly hydrophobic) has been excluded from the hydrophobic residue set. With this refined definition, we observe a significant enrichment of hydrophobic amino acids at p109 in CD8 T cell repertoires from females, with similar but non-significant trends at p109 in DP and CD4 Teff cells and at p110 in CD8 cells (see new Figure 4C).

      As outlined in the revised Methods, Results, and Discussion sections, Figure 4C focuses exclusively on positional hydrophobic amino acid usage. This was previously implicit, although it was noted in the legend and visually represented in the plots.

      The majority of "hundreds of sex-specific motifs" are probably donor-specific motifs confounded by HLA restriction. This interpretation is supported by the failure to validate motifs in external datasets (pediatric thymus, peripheral blood). The authors should restrict analysis to public motifs (shared across multiple donors) and report the number of donors contributing to each motif.

      We fully agree that donor-specific and HLA-restricted motifs represent a major potential confounder in repertoire-level comparisons. To minimize this potential bias, our analysis was explicitly restricted to public motifs, as clearly stated in the Materials and Methods section:

      “Additional filters were applied so that: (i) a motif includes public CDR3aa sequences (shared by at least two individuals); (ii) a significant enrichment is detected (Fisher’s exact test, p < 0.01); and (iii) a usage difference between groups of at least twofold (Wilcoxon test, p < 0.05).”

      Accordingly, every motif reported in the manuscript is supported by at least two independent donors, ensuring that no motif reflects an individual- or HLA-specific effect (see Supplementary Figures 10-13[previously Supplementary Figure 9]). We have now added a more explicit mention of the number of donors contributing to each motif in the figure legend and have clarified this point in the revised Methods and Results sections to make this criterion more visible to readers.

      When comparing TCRs to VDJdb or other databases, it is critical to consider HLA restriction. Only database matches corresponding to epitopes that can be presented by the donor's HLA should be counted. The authors must either perform HLA typing or explicitly discuss this limitation and how it affects their conclusions.

      We respectfully disagree with the assertion that HLA typing is necessary for the type of comparative analysis we have conducted. While it is true that HLA molecules present peptides to TCRs and thereby contribute to the tripartite interaction determining T cell activation, extensive evidence indicates that the CDR3 region, particularly CDR3β, is the dominant determinant of antigen specificity. This finding is supported by structural and computational studies (Madi et al., eLife, 2017; Huang et al., Nat. Biotech., 2020; MayerBlackwell et al., Methods Mol. Biol., 2022) showing that CDR3β residues are responsible for the majority of peptide contacts, whereas CDR1 and CDR2 primarily interact with the MHC framework.

      As emphasized in several recent benchmarking studies (e.g., Springer et al., Front Immunol, 2021), CDR3β sequence composition alone captures most of the information required for specificity inference. Consequently, widely used and validated computational tools such as GIANA (Zhang et al. Nat. Commun. 2021), iSMART (Zhang et al. Clin. Cancer Res. 2020), and ATMTCR (Cai et al. Front. Immunol. 2022) rely exclusively on CDR3β aminoacid sequences and still achieve high predictive performance.

      Our analysis aligns with this well-established paradigm. While we agree that integrating donor HLA typing would refine epitope-level annotation and reduce potential noise, the absence of HLA data does not invalidate the comparative framework we used, which focuses on relative representation of annotated specificities across groups rather than on individual TCR–HLA–peptide triads.

      Although the age distributions of male and female donors are similar, the key question is whether HLA alleles are similarly distributed. If women in the cohort happen to carry autoimmuneassociated alleles more often, this alone could explain observed repertoire differences. HLA typing and HLA comparison between sexes are therefore essential.

      To address the issue of any potential differences in HLA background, we examined the subset of adult donors for whom HLA typing information was available (HLA-A, HLA-B, HLADR, and HLA-DQB; n = 16). Within this subset, the distribution of HLA alleles was relatively balanced between males and females (as illustrated by the heatmap showing HLA class II expression patterns and HLA class I family grouping in Author response image 1). This analysis suggests that the sex-associated differences in the repertoire observed in our study are unlikely to be driven solely by unequal representation of autoimmune-associated HLA alleles.

      We acknowledge, however, that complete HLA information was not available for all donors, which remains a limitation of the dataset.

      Author response image 1.

      In some analyses (e.g., Figures 8C-D) data are shown per donor, while others (e.g., Fig. 8A-B) pool all sequences. This inconsistency is concerning. The apparent enrichment of autoimmune or bacterial specificities in females could be driven by one or two donors with particular HLAs. All analyses should display donor-level values, not pooled data.

      While Figures 8A–B present pooled data to summarize global trends, the corresponding donor-level analyses were provided in Supplementary Figures 15B and 16 (previously Supplementary Figures 11B and 12). In these, each individual is shown separately, with each point representing an individual. It is important to note that these donor-resolved plots do not reveal any sample-specific driver: the patterns observed in the pooled data remain consistent across donors, without any single individual accounting for the apparent enrichments. As outlined in the revised manuscript, readers now directed to the relevant supplementary figures for further clarification.

      The reported enrichment of matches to certain specificities relative to the database composition is conceptually problematic. Because the reference database has an arbitrary distribution of epitopes, enrichment relative to it lacks biological meaning. HLA distribution in the studied patients and HLA restrictions of antigens in the database could be completely different, which could alone explain enrichment and depletions for particular specificities. Moreover, differences in Pgen distributions across epitopes can produce apparent enrichment artifacts. Exact matches typically correspond to high-Pgen "public" sequences; thus, the enrichment analysis may simply reflect variation in Pgen of specific TCRs (i.e., fraction of high-Pgen TCRs) across epitopes rather than true selection. Consequently, statements such as "We observed a significant enrichment of unique TRB CDR3aa sequences specific to self-antigens" should be removed.

      We respectfully disagree with the conclusion that our enrichment analysis lacks biological meaning. Our approach directly involves a direct comparison of the same set of observed TCR sequences between males and females. Consequently, any potential biases related to generation probability (Pgen), which affect all sequences equally, cannot account for the observed sex-specific differences. To summarize, because the comparison is performed on the same set of sequences, changes in the probability of generation across epitopes cannot explain the differences seen between the sexes.

      We do agree, however, that the composition of the reference databases may influence apparent enrichment patterns, as these resources contain uneven distributions of epitope categories and often incomplete information regarding HLA restriction. It should be noted that this limitation is inherent to all database-based annotation approaches, a fact which is explicitly acknowledged in the revised Discussion.

      The overrepresentation of self-specific TCRs in females is the manuscript's most interesting finding, yet it is not described in detail. The authors should list the corresponding self-antigens, indicate which autoimmune diseases they relate to, and show per-donor distributions of these matches.

      We thank the reviewer for this constructive suggestion.

      As recommended, we have expanded the description of the self-specific TCRs identified in our dataset and now provide this information in Supplementary Table 2 of the revised manuscript. Specifically, the table lists the corresponding self-antigens and the autoimmune diseases with which they are associated. In our curated database, these annotations primarily correspond to celiac disease and type 1 diabetes, which were the two autoimmune contexts explicitly defined in the manually curated reference datasets.

      For the “cancer” specificity group, we have clarified that antigen assignments were established based on (i) annotations available in the original databases (IEDB, VDJdb, McPAS-TCR) and (ii) cross-referencing with additional resources, including the Human Protein Atlas, the Cancer Antigenic Peptide Database (de Duve Institute), and the Cancer Antigen Atlas (Yi et al., iScience 2021), to ensure consistency in the classification of cancer and neoantigen specificities. Please refer to the Materials and Methods section for a full description of the procedure for this specific assignment.

      Donor-level distributions of these self-specific matches are now shown in Supplementary Figures 15B and 16 (previously Supplemental Figures 11B and 12), allowing direct visualization of inter-donor variability. Importantly, these plots confirm that the observed enrichment in females is not driven by a single individual, further supporting the robustness of the finding.

      The concept of poly-specificity is controversial. The authors should clearly explain how polyspecific TCRs were defined in this study and highlight that the experimental evidence supporting true polyspecificity is very limited (e.g., just a single TCR from Figure 5 from Quiniou et al.).

      We certainly agree (and regret) that the concept of TCR polyspecificity remains a subject of debate and often underappreciated in the field of immunology. As Don Mason famously discussed in his seminal essay “A very high cross-reactivity is an essential feature of the TCR” (doi: 10.1016/S0167-5699(98)01299-7) published over 25 years ago, both theoretical and experimental evidence indicates that each TCR can, in principle, recognize millions of distinct peptides, albeit with variable avidity.

      Although this principle is widely accepted, it is frequently overlooked in the field of experimental immunology. In this area, anything that deviates from strict monospecificity is often disregarded as noise.

      In our own analyses of large-scale TCR repertoires, we have repeatedly observed that many CDR3 sequences are annotated with multiple specificities across different databases, often corresponding to peptides from unrelated organisms. As demonstrated in Quiniou et al. (eLife 2023), such polyreactive TCRs exhibit distinctive features, including biased physicochemical composition, and tend to be enriched in various biological contexts. In our preliminary study of such TCRs, which have the capacity to be specific for multiple viral- and self- epitopes, we hypothesized that they may serve as a first line of defense against pathogens and also be involved in triggering autoimmunity. We therefore consider it important to report this phenomenon rather than omit it, especially given its potential relevance to both protective immunity and autoimmunity.

      In the present study, polyspecific TCRs were defined operationally as TRB CDR3aa sequences associated with a minimum of two distinct specificity groups, corresponding either to different microbial species or to multiple antigen categories within the curated database. Therefore, our definition captures broader antigenic groupings rather than epitope-level binding events.

      We fully acknowledge that direct experimental evidence for true molecular-level polyspecificity remains limited. Indeed, as the reviewer notes, only a single TCR with multiepitope reactivity has been rigorously demonstrated to date (Quiniou et al.2023). Consequently, our analysis does not make claims about structural promiscuity; instead, it uses database-annotated cross-reactivity as a proxy to explore broader repertoire-level patterns.

      As outlined in the Methods section, this definition has been clarified and its discussion expanded in the Discussion to explicitly address these conceptual and methodological nuances.

      Minor:

      Clarify why the Pgen model was used only for DP and CD8 subsets and not for others.

      As noted, computing Pgen values involves two steps: (i) training a generative model of V(D)J recombination using IGoR, and (ii) estimating generation probabilities with OLGA based on that model. Both steps require a significant amount of computing power, especially when applied to large repertoires across multiple subsets. For this reason, we focused the analysis on DP thymocytes, which represent the repertoire prior to thymic selection, and CD8 T cells after CD8 selection.

      The Methods section should define what a "high sequence reliability score" is and describe precisely how the "harmonized" database was constructed.

      Briefly, the annotated database used in this study was constructed in accordance with the procedure established in our previously published work (Jouannet et al., NAR Genomics and Bioinformatics, 2025). The study integrates three publicly available resources, IEDB, VDJdb, and McPAS-TCR, which were collected as of October 2023. These three datasets were then merged into a single harmonized compendium, undergoing extensive standardization. When entries shared identical information across databases (same V–CDR3–J for both TRA and TRB, same epitope, organism, PubMed ID, and cell subset), only one representative was kept; discrepant or incomplete entries were retained to preserve information. We then assigned a sequence reliability score, the Verified Score (VS), following the verification strategy used by IEDB. The scale ranges from 0 to 2 and reflects the concordance between calculated and curated TRA/TRB CDR3 sequences (2 = both TRA and TRB present are verified, 1.1 = only TRA verified, 1.2 = only TRB verified, 0 = no verified chain). A second score, the Antigen Identification Score (AIS), is used to rank antigen-identification methods on a scale of 0 to 5, according to the strength of the experimental evidence supporting them.

      In the present study, “high reliability” refers to sequences with a verified TRB CDR3aa chain (VS ≥ 1.2) and an AIS score corresponding to T cells in vitro stimulation with a pathogen, protein or peptide, or pMHC X-mer sorting (> 3.2, excluding categories 4.1 and 4.2), ensuring that downstream analyses were performed on a rigorously curated and biologically trustworthy dataset. The Methods section now explicitly details these criteria.

      The statement "we generated 20,000 permuted mixed-sex groups" is unclear. It is not evident how this permutation corrects for individual variation or sex bias. A more appropriate approach would be to train the Pgen model separately for each individual's nonproductive sequences (if the number of sequences is large enough).

      The objective of this analysis was to determine whether the enrichment of TRBV06-5 in females was due to random grouping of individuals or whether it was attributable to sex itself. To do so, we generated all possible perfectly mixed groups of donors (i.e., groups containing an equal number of male and female donors) for the concerned thymocyte subset, and then performed 20,000 random pairwise comparisons between such mixed groups. For each comparison, we tested the TRBV06-5 usage between the two mixed groups. This procedure directly evaluates whether group composition (independent of sex) could spuriously generate differences in TRBV usage. Notably, none of these 20,000 comparisons between the two mixed groups yielded a statistically significant difference in TRBV06-5 usage. In contrast, when comparing the true male and female groups, a significant difference was identified. This demonstrates that the signal we observe is not driven by random donor grouping or individual-level variation, but is specifically associated with sex. It is important to note that this analysis, which is designed to exclude spurious group effects, is rarely performed in published repertoire studies, yet it provides an important internal control for robustness.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Data availability "upon request" is unacceptable. All raw and processed data, as well as scripts used for analysis and figure generation, must be publicly deposited before publication.

      We would like to clarify that our intention has always been to make this dataset publicly available. It was a mistake to suggest otherwise in the original submission.

      (2) At the beginning of the Results section, include a brief description of the dataset: number of donors, sex ratio, age range, number of samples per subset, and sorting strategy. Although Figure 1 shows this, the information should also be mentioned in the main text.

      In line with the recommendation, we have now added a summary of the cohort characteristics at the beginning of the Results section. This includes the number of donors, sex ratio, age range, number of samples per subset, and the sorting strategy used. While this information was already included in Figure 1, we concur that including it directly in the main text enhances readability.

      (3) Report the number of cells and unique clonotypes analyzed per individual. Rank-frequency plots (in log-log coordinates) would be helpful.

      We have now added, for each donor and each subset, the number of cells, and additionally for each chain, the number of total and unique clonotypes analyzed. This information is provided in the revised manuscript in a new supplementary table (Supplemental Table 1).

      These plots have been integrated into the revised manuscript as Supplementary Figure 2.

      (4) For analysis in Figure 4B, the total fraction of hydrophobic amino acids should be calculated for each patient separately, and values for men and women should be compared (analogously to Figure 4C, but for the whole CDR3 and excluding alanine).

      Please note that the TRB CDR3aa composition in Figure 4B has already been quantified at the individual level. For each unique TRB CDR3aa sequence, we computed the proportion of each of the 20 amino acids across the CDR3β loop, then summarized these values per donor (mean per individual). The log2 fold change displayed in Figure 4B (and supplemental Figure 9 for TRA) is calculated from the median donor-level values for females versus males, rather than from pooled CDR3s. It is intended as descriptive, “global” view of amino acid usage within the central CDR3 region. Hydrophobicity was not used directly in the computation, but is indicated only by bar color, based on the Kyte-Doolittle- derived IMGT classification. This provides an observational overview of amino acid composition in the central CDR3 region.

      As the mechanistic link between hydrophobicity and self-reactivity described by Stadinski et al. is explicitly position-dependent, we consider positional analyses to be the most appropriate method for formally interrogating this hypothesis, as we did in Figure 4C. Here, our primary focus was on the position-specific usage of hydrophobic amino acids at IMGT positions p109-p110. These positions correspond to the central p6-p7 positions described by Stadinski et al. For each individual, we computed the proportion of unique TRB CDR3aa sequences carrying a hydrophobic amino acid at a given position.

      Accordingly, in the revised manuscript we refined the Figure 4C by excluding alanine due to its weak hydrophobic property (as recommended by the reviewer) This positional composition analysis now reveals a statistically significant increase in hydrophobic usage at p109 in female CD8 repertoires, with similar, though non-significant, trends at p109 in DP and CD4Teff ad at p110 in CD8 cells. Figure 4B is therefore retained as an exploratory overview of amino acid composition usage along the CDR3 loop, while Figure 4C is used for the more specific question of hydrophobicity and potential cross-reactivity.

      The Methods section has been expanded to provide clearer descriptions of these computations, and the Results and Discussion sections corresponding to Figures 4B-C (and supplemental Figure 9) have been revised to make the rationale, implementation, and interpretation of these hydrophobicity analyses more explicit.

      (5) Figure 6 shows a trend toward higher clustering of Treg TCRs in males, which could relate to the lower incidence of autoimmunity in men. The authors could test whether specific Treg clusters are male-specific and shared among male donors.

      As shown in Figure 6, a clear trend towards higher similarity among Treg CDR3aa sequences in males is evident, as indicated by the proportion of sequences included in clusters and in the overall similarity density. However, identifying “male-specific clusters” shared across donors is not straightforward in our analytical framework.

      In our approach, for each cell subset, CDR3aa sequences were downsampled 100 times to the smallest sample size, and clustering was repeated at each iteration. Therefore, the clusters’ identities are not consistent across iterations. The clusters depend on the specific subset of sequences selected at each downsampling step, as well as on their underlying Pgen distribution. Therefore, it is not possible to reliably assess whether specific clusters are systematically “male-shared”. This is because cluster composition is a function of stochastic resampling rather than of biological structure. For this reason, a comparison of cluster identities across donors would not produce interpretable results.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      We thank the reviewers for their constructive feedback, which has helped preparing a substantially improved manuscript. In response to concerns about the conceptual distinction between prediction and stimulus dependency, we have fundamentally restructured the paper around the notion of passive control systems. This involved rewriting the Abstract, Introduction, and large portions of the Results (~60% of text revised).

      Key changes:

      - New analyses on Goldstein et al. (2022) data. We demonstrate that our findings—including the insufficiency of proposed corrections—generalise to the original dataset (Figures S2B, S3B, S5C, S6B).

      - Clarified novel contribution. We now make explicit that prior control analyses (residualisation, bigram removal) do not address the concern, because hallmarks persist in passive systems that cannot predict.

      - Proposed criterion for future work. Pre-onset neural encoding can only count as evidence for prediction if it exceeds a passive baseline (e.g., acoustics).

      We believe the revision offers a clearer, more rigorous contribution and provides a constructive framework for evaluating claims of neural prediction.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      This paper tackles an important question: What drives the predictability of pre-stimulus brain activity? The authors challenge the claim that "pre-onset" encoding effects in naturalistic language data have to reflect the brain predicting the upcoming word. They lay out an alternative explanation: because language has statistical structure and dependencies, the "pre-onset" effect might arise from these dependencies, instead of active prediction. The authors analyze two MEG datasets with naturalistic data.

      Strengths:

      The paper proposes a very reasonable alternative hypothesis for claims in prior work. Two independent datasets are analyzed. The analyses with the most and least predictive words are clever, and nicely complement the more naturalistic analyses.

      Weaknesses:

      I have to admit that I have a hard time understanding one conceptual aspect of the work, and a few technical aspects of the analyses are unclear to me. Conceptually, I am not clear on why stimulus dependencies need to be different from those of prediction. Yes, it is true that actively predicting an upcoming word is different from just letting the regression model pick up on stimulus dependencies, but given that humans are statistical learners, we also just pick up on stimulus dependencies, and is that different from prediction? Isn't that in some way, the definition of prediction (sensitivity to stimulus dependencies, and anticipating the most likely upcoming input(s))?

      We thank the reviewer for this comment, which highlights that the previous version wasn’t sufficiently clear. Conceptually, the difference is critical: it is the difference between passively encoding or representing the stimulus (like e.g., a spectrogram of the stimulus would), and actively generating predictions.

      We have substantially changed the framing of the paper to put the notion of control systems centre-stage. One such control system is the speech acoustics: they encode the stimulus (and thus its dependencies) but cannot predict. When we observe the "hallmarks of prediction" in acoustics, this demonstrates the hallmarks can arise without any prediction.

      This brings me to some of the technical points: If the encoding regression model is learning one set of regression weights, how can those reflect stimulus dependencies (or am I misunderstanding which weights are learned)? Would it help to fit regression models on for instance, every second word or something (that should get rid of stimulus dependencies, but still allow to test whether the model predicts brain activity associated with words)? Or does that miss the point? I am a bit unclear as to what the actual "problem" with the encoding model analyses is, and how the stimulus dependency bias would be evident. It would be very helpful if the authors could spell out, more explicitly, the precise predictions of how the bias would be present in the encoding model.

      Different weights are estimated per time point in the time-resolved regression. This allows the model to learn how the response to words unfolds, but also to learn different stimulus dependencies at each timepoint. Fitting on every second word would reduce but not eliminate the problem. Our control system approach provides a more principled test. We have clarified the mechanism in the Introduction (lines 82-90), explaining how correlations between neighbouring words allow the regression model to predict prior neural activity without assuming pre-activation.

      Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      At a high level, the reviewers demonstrate that there is an explanation for pre-word-onset predictivity in neural responses that does not invoke a theory of predictive coding or processing. The paper does this by demonstrating that this predictivity can be explained solely as a property of the local mutual information statistics of natural language. That is, the reason that pre-word onset predictivity exists could simply boil down to the common prevalence of redundant bigram or skip-gram information in natural language.

      Strengths:

      The paper addresses a problem of significance and uses methods from modern NeuroAI encoding model literature to do so. The arguments, both around stimulus dependencies and the problems of residualization, are compellingly motivated and point out major holes in the reasoning behind several influential papers in the field, most notably Goldstein et al. This result, together with other papers that have pointed out other serious problems in this body of work, should provoke a reconsideration of papers from encoding model literature that have promoted predictive coding. The paper also brings to the forefront issues in extremely common methods like residualization that are good to raise for those who might be tempted to use or interpret these methods incorrectly.

      Weaknesses:

      The authors don't completely settle the problem of whether pre-word onset predictivity is entirely explainable by stimulus dependencies, instead opting to show why naive attempts at resolving this problem (like residualization) don't work. The paper could certainly be better if the authors had managed to fully punch a hole in this.

      We thank the reviewer for their assessment.

      We believe our paper does punch the hole that can be punched, which is a hole in the method. Our control demonstrates that adjusting the features (X matrix) cannot address dependencies that persist in the signal itself (Y matrix). Because the hallmarks emerge in a system that cannot predict (even after linearly removing the previous stimulus) attributing pre-onset encoding performance to neural prediction (rather than stimulus structure) is fundamentally ambiguous, and different (e.g. variance partitioning) approaches would suffer from the same ambiguity. We have reframed the manuscript to make this argument more clearly.

      Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      The study by Schönmann et al. presents compelling analyses based on two MEG datasets, offering strong evidence that the pre-onset response observed in a highly influential study (Goldstein et al., 2022) can be attributed to stimulus dependencies, specifically, the auto-correlation in the stimuli—rather than to predictive processing in the brain. Given that both the pre-onset response and the encoding model are central to the landmark study, and that similar approaches have been adopted in several influential works, this manuscript is likely to be of high interest to the field. Overall, this study encourages more cautious interpretation of pre-onset responses in neural data, and the paper is well written and clearly structured.

      Strengths:

      (1) The authors provide clear and convincing evidence that inherent dependencies in word embeddings can lead to pre-activation of upcoming words, previously interpreted as neural predictive processing in many influential studies.

      (2) They demonstrate that dependencies across representational domains (word embeddings and acoustic features) can explain the pre-onset response, and that these effects are not eliminated by regressing out neighboring word embeddings - an approach used in prior work.

      (3) The study is based on two large MEG datasets, showing that results previously observed in ECoG data can be replicated in MEG. Moreover, the stimulus dependencies appear to be consistent across the two datasets.

      We’d like to thank the reviewer for their comments on our preprint.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) To allow a more direct comparison with Goldstein et al., the authors could consider using their publicly available dataset.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. The Goldstein dataset was not publicly available when we conducted this research. However, we have now applied our control analyses to their stimulus material, and found that the exact same problem applies to their dataset, too.

      We have added analyses of the Goldstein et al. (2022) podcast stimulus throughout the paper. Results are shown in Figures S2B, S3B, S5C, and S6B. Critically, we observe the same pattern: both hallmarks emerge in the acoustic control system, and residualisation fails to eliminate them. This demonstrates that our findings generalise to the very dataset used to establish pre-onset encoding as evidence for neural prediction.

      (2) Goldstein et al. already addressed embedding dependencies and showed that their main results hold after regressing out the embedding dependencies. This may lessen the impact of the concerns about self-dependency raised here.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this point, as it reveals we failed to convey a central argument in the previous version. Goldstein et al.'s control analysis did not address the concern. We show that even after the control analyses that Goldstein et al. perform (removing bigrams, regressing out embedding dependencies) the "hallmarks of prediction" still emerge when applying the analysis to a passive control system that by definition does not predict: the speech acoustics. We now also show this in their data.

      To better convey this critical point, around the concept of "passive control systems". We now first establish that the hallmarks appear in acoustics (Figure 3), then show that residualisation fails to remove them (Figure 4). This makes explicit that any claim about "controlling for dependencies" must be validated against a system that cannot predict.

      (3) While this study shows that stimulus dependency can account for pre-onset responses, it remains unclear whether this fully explains them, or whether predictive processing still plays a role. The more important question is whether pre-activation remains after accounting for these confounds.

      We thank the reviewer for this question, and we agree that the question whether pre-activation occurs is an important and interesting one. However, we ask a different question in our study: Our goal is not to definitively establish whether the brain predicts during language processing; it is to scrutinise what counts as evidence for prediction, and to correct for some highly influential claims made in the literature. The reviewer asks whether pre-activation remains "after accounting for these confounds." But the point we are trying to make is that in this analytical framework, one cannot analytically account for these confounds: corrections to the X matrix leave dependencies in the data itself intact, as the acoustic control demonstrates.

      We do offer recommendations for future work. The passive control systems approach can serve as a benchmark: pre-onset neural encoding (or decoding) can only count as evidence for prediction if it exceeds what is observed in a passive control system like acoustics (which is not what we observe). Additionally, the field could move toward less naturalistic stimuli with tighter experimental controls, reducing the correlations that make this attribution so difficult. Developing a new definitive test is beyond the scope of our paper, but we believe applying this benchmark is a necessary first step.

      To make this clearer, we have rewritten the Discussion to explicitly state this criterion (lines 331-340) and to outline these recommendations for future work (lines 337-340). We have also added a paragraph extending our argument to decoding approaches (lines 343-354), noting that the same ambiguity applies regardless of analytical direction.

      Recommendations for Authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for Authors):

      As per my "Weakness" point, I would appreciate engagement with the conceptual point related to the difference between prediction and stimulus correlations. Most importantly, I hope the authors will spell out more explicitly which predictions their proposal makes, and how exactly those would be present in an encoding model.

      Our proposal makes a clear prediction: if pre-onset encoding can be explained by stimulus dependencies (essentially a confound in the analysis) the same hallmarks should emerge in passive control systems that encode the stimulus but do not predict. We test this with word embeddings and speech acoustics, and both show hallmarks despite not doing any prediction.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for Authors):

      I greatly enjoyed reading the paper and only have minor quibbles. The work is overdue and will no doubt be a valuable addition to the literature to push back on over-hyped claims about the implications of pre-word predictivity in neural response. I have few issues with the methods that the paper uses, they seem sensible and in line with previous work that has investigated these questions, and I did not find typos.

      One point I would like to raise is whether or not there is a more effective solution to resolving the issues behind residualization that the paper demonstrates. The authors show that removing next-word information does not effectively resolve the problem that local relationships in the stimulus dataset pose. The challenge to me here seems to be that it is difficult to get a model to "not learn" a relationship that is learnable. I wonder if a better solution to this is to not try to get a model to exclude a set of information but instead to do some sort of variance partitioning where you train a model to predict the next-word representation from the current-word representation (as in the self-predictivity analysis) and then build an encoding model out of the predicted representation. Then, compare the pre-word-onset encoding performance of the prediction with the pre-word-onset encoding performance of the original representation. If the performance of the two models roughly matches, that would be strong evidence that most of what these models are capturing before word onset is just explainable by the stimulus dependencies, no?

      We would like to thank the reviewer for their kind words and positive appraisal!

      The proposed analysis is that if a linear proxy representation, w_hat_t – predicted linearly from w_{t-1} – yields pre-onset predictivity comparable to the actual w_t vector, this would support that the effect can be explained by stimulus dependencies. While this is an interesting alternative analysis, we would be cautious about the inverse conclusion: that if w_t outperforms the linear proxy w_hat_t, the residual variance must reflect true neural prediction.

      This is because of our control system results. We show that even when we remove the "predictable" shared variance – which is similar to computing the difference between w_t and w_hat_t – the unique information still yields pre-onset predictivity, albeit reduced, in the passive acoustics that by definition cannot predict. Therefore, instead of developing an ever-more-clever way to "correct" for the problem by adjusting the X matrix, we focus on showing that the problem lies in the stimulus itself. For the revision, we focused on reframing the problem and hope we have punched a fuller hole in the logic by breaking down the fundamental issue more clearly and showing it applies to the stimulus material of Goldstein et al. (2022) as well.

      Additionally, I would say that I was a bit confused about what was going on in the methods figures, to the point where I do not see the value in having them, but thankfully, the text was clear enough to resolve that confusion.

      We are sad the methods illustration wasn’t helpful. In presentations we have found that the illustrations were generally helpful to bring the analysis across, e.g. the aspect of keeping the analysis identical but simply replacing the brain data with either word vectors (current Figure 2) and acoustics (current Figure 3). In the revision we have reorganised the schematics slightly, we introduce the acoustics as a control system earlier, to separately introduce residualisation and its insufficiency (Figure 4). We hope this helps

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for Authors):

      (1) My major concern is the extent to which this study offers new insights beyond what was already demonstrated in Goldstein's work. First, the embedding dependency highlighted by the authors seems somewhat expected, given how these embeddings are constructed: GloVe embeddings are based on word co-occurrence statistics, and GPT embeddings are combinations of embeddings of preceding words. More importantly, Goldstein et al. addressed this issue by regressing out neighboring word embeddings. This control was effective, as also confirmed by the current manuscript, and their main results remain. Therefore, the embedding dependency appears to have been properly accounted for in the earlier study.

      Building on the previous point, I appreciate the analysis of dependencies across representational domains, which I see as the main novel contribution of this manuscript. I would encourage the authors to explore this aspect more deeply. If I understand correctly, stimulus dependencies may persist even after regressing out neighboring word embeddings due to two potential factors:

      (a) Temporal dependencies in embeddings: since the regression of neighbor words is performed at the word level rather than over time, temporal dependency may remain.

      (b) Cross-feature dependencies - specifically, correlations between embeddings and acoustic features.

      Regarding the first factor, it is not entirely clear to me whether this is a real problem—i.e., whether word-level regression fails to remove temporal dependencies. A simulation could help clarify this and support the argument. While it's not essential, it would be valuable if the authors could propose a method to address this issue, or at least outline it as a direction for future work.

      For the second point, it would be helpful for the authors to explicitly explain the potential relationship between word embeddings and acoustic features. Additionally, while correlations between features are a common problem in speech research, they are typically addressed by regressing out acoustic features early in the analysis (Gwilliams et al., 2022). It would strengthen the current findings if the authors could test whether the self-predictability persists even after controlling for neighboring embeddings and acoustic features.

      We appreciate the extensive and detailed engagement with our work, which has been very useful in highlighting key unclarities and gaps we had to address.

      We do believe our study goes well beyond what was shown by Goldstein, by identifying a fundamental limitation in their analysis, and showing that their purported control analyses do not in fact control for the problem. We’ll address the reviewers' sub-questions in turn.

      (i) Why this offers crucial insights beyond Goldstein et al.

      While Goldstein et al. indeed addressed embedding dependencies via residualization (or in their case projection), their conclusion relied on the assumption that any neural encoding surviving this "fix" must reflect genuine predictive pre-activation. Our study invalidates this assumption. By applying the residualization fix, we show that the "hallmarks of prediction" persist just as robustly in a passive control system that cannot predict (the speech acoustics) as in the neural data. (We also show this for bigram removal.)

      This provides a key new insight: persistent pre-onset predictivity after “correction” is not evidence that the dependency issue was solved. Instead, because the same effect persists in a system that cannot predict (acoustics), the persistence of the hallmarks cannot be attributed to prediction. It demonstrates that the standard "fix" is mathematically insufficient to remove the confound, rendering the original evidence for neural prediction fundamentally ambiguous.

      (ii) Why do dependencies/hallmarks persist after residualization?

      Residualization successfully removes the linear dependency between the current embedding (w_t) and the previous embedding (w_{t-1}) within the feature space. However, it does not (and cannot) remove the dependency from language itself, and therefore from the brain which (in some format) encodes the linguistic stimulus. Language is massively redundant. Knowing the current word tells you something about what came before – acoustically, syntactically, semantically. As long as the embedding identifies the word, the regression model will re-learn this relationship. For instance, in the case of acoustics, even when using the corrected embedding, the regression will re-learn that certain words (e.g., "Holmes") tend to follow certain acoustic patterns (e.g., the acoustics of "Sherlock"). “This shows that correcting the embeddings is insufficient: the dependencies exist in language itself, and the model will re-learn them from any signal that encodes that language.”

      (iii) Why not regress out the acoustics?

      This is also why "regressing out acoustics" (as the reviewer suggests) would miss the point. We do not claim that acoustic features leak into the neural signal or that acoustics are a specific confound to be removed. Rather, we use acoustics as a “passive baseline”: a system that encodes the stimulus but cannot predict. That the method yields "hallmarks of prediction" in this baseline demonstrates these hallmarks are not valid evidence for prediction—regardless of what additional features one regresses out. This motivates our proposed criterion: future studies seeing evidence for neural pre-activation should not rest on finding pre-onset encoding per se, since passive systems show this too. Rather, it should require demonstrating that the brain signal contains more information about the upcoming word than the passive stimulus baseline.

      As these aspects are fundamental to the interpretation of our study, we have fundamentally re-organised and re-wrote large parts of the paper. We hope it is much clearer now.

      (2) To better compare to Goldstein's work, the author may consider performing the same analyses using their publicly available dataset.

      This is a good suggestion. When we initially conducted this research, the Goldstein dataset was not yet publicly available. It now is, and we have applied our analyses to their stimulus material. The same problem emerges: the hallmarks of prediction appear in the acoustics of their podcast stimuli. Even after applying the control analyses, pre-onset predictivity is robust in their acoustics (indeed, in correlation terms, higher than reported for the neural data, so there is not more predictivity in the brain than in the stimulus material), confirming that the issue we identify applies to the original dataset. Results are shown in Figures S2B, S3B, S5C, and S6B.

      (3) It is also interesting to show the predictability effect after word onsets for self-predictability analyses, for example, in Figure 2C. The predictability effect is not only reflected in pre-onset responses but also in post-onset responses, i.e., larger responses for unpredicted words. Whether the stimulus dependency mirror this effect?

      Our paper focuses specifically on temporal dependencies – the capacity of the current word to predict the previous stimulus signal (e.g., previous acoustics, previous embeddings) – and how this mimics neural pre-activation. Post-onset analyses, by contrast, concerns the mapping between the current word and its concurrent signal, which involves fundamentally different mechanisms (e.g., mapping fidelity, frequency effects, acoustic clarity, word length) and would require the consideration of covariates of the attributes of the word post-onset to meaningfully interpret. Post-onset, there can be differences between predictable and non predictable words – e.g. sometimes unpredictable words are pronounced with more emphasis – which is why surprisal studies include a large range of covariates. However, this is not about stimulus dependencies or pre-activation, so we consider it is beyond scope of our study.

      (4) The authors might consider reporting the encoding performance for the residual word embeddings, similar to Figure S6B in Goldstein's paper. This would allow us to determine whether pre-activation persists in the MEG responses and compare its pattern with the predictability of pre-onset acoustics.

      We do report this analysis, in the revised supplement it is shown in Figure S7. We placed it in the supplement precisely because residualized embeddings are not the "fix" they appear to be: as we show, they still yield strong pre-onset predictivity in the passive acoustic baseline (Figure 4, S6), undermining their use as a control.

      (5) The series of previous pre-activation analyses proposed fruitful findings, e.g., the difference between brain regions (Fig. S4, (Goldstein et al., 2022)) and the difference between listeners and speakers (Figure 2, (Zada et al., 2024)). Whether these observed differences can be explained by the stimulus dependency?

      We appreciate this question. Our goal is to address the general logic of using pre-onset encoding as evidence for prediction, rather than to critique every finding in specific papers, especially as it pertains to a specific author. But briefly:

      Speaker vs. Listener differences (Zada et al., 2024): Zada et al. report distinct temporal profiles: speaker encoding peaks pre-onset (planning?), whereas listener encoding peaks post-onset but shows a pre-onset "ramp." Our critique applies to interpreting this ramp as "prediction." However, this interpretation is not central to their paper, which focuses on speaker-listener coupling via shared embedding spaces. We leave the implications (which are clear enough) to the reader.

      Regional differences (Goldstein et al., 2022): Encoding timecourses do vary across electrodes, as we also observe across MEG sources (and participants). But our point is logical: because pre-onset encoding does not necessarily reflect prediction, finding a channel with stronger pre-onset encoding does not mean that channel performs “more prediction”. For instance, one subject in the Armeni dataset showed higher pre-onset than post-onset encoding (and indeed activity) overall – but it would be implausible to conclude this subject "only predicts" and does not “process” or “listen”. More likely, this reflects differences in signal-to-noise, integration windows, or source contributions. The exact sources of these morphological differences are interesting but unclear, and speculating on them is beyond our scope.

      (6) I appreciate that the authors have shared their code; however, some parts appear to be missing. For example, the script encoding_analysis.py only includes package-loading code.

      Thank you for noticing, we have updated our code database.

      (7) What do the error bars in the figures represent - for example, in Figure 1C? How many samples were included in the significance tests? The difference between the two curves appears small, yet it is reported as significant. Additionally, Figure S1 shows large differences between subjects and between the two MEG datasets. Do the authors have any explanation for these differences?

      The shaded areas in our previous Figure 1c) show 95% confidence intervals computed over the 100 MEG sources identified to be part of the bilateral language system and the 10 cross-validation splits.

      We do not have an elaborate explanation for the differences in encoding performance across the three subjects in the few-subject dataset. Instead, we interpret these differences as a likely consequence of substantial inter-individual variability in evoked responses, even at the source level, arising from differences in cortical folding and the orientation of underlying current dipoles. We deem this a likely explanation since different electrodes in Goldstein’s ECoG data also showed very different encoding profiles.

      With respect to the multi-subject dataset, we suspect that the large differences stem most likely from two substantial differences: First, the acoustics were purposefully manipulated by the experimenters to reduce temporal dependence. This made it harder for listeners to concentrate on the stories and thereby might have potentially led to lower quality neural data. Furthermore, it reduced one form of stimulus dependency, namely the acoustic temporal dependencies, which could be exploited by the encoding model to reach higher encoding accuracies. Secondly, MEG has a notoriously poor signal-to-noise ratio, and the amount of data per participant (7.745 words as opposed to 85.719 in the few-subject dataset) might not have been enough to produce reliably high encoding results.

      Finally, the current study is clear and convincing, and my suggestions are not intended to question its novelty or robustness. Rather, I believe the authors are in a strong position to address a critical question in language processing: whether pre-activation occurs. The authors have thoughtfully considered important confounds related to pre-onset responses. Adding some approaches to regressing out these confounds could be particularly helpful for determining whether a true pre-onset response remains.

      We thank the reviewer again for their constructive feedback, suggestions and questions. To clarify, however, our goal is *not* to definitively attest to whether pre-activation occurs. Our goal is simply to scrutinise a specific method to test for linguistic prediction. This method purports to be an improvement on conventional post-onset (e.g. surprisal-based) methods, as it can directly investigate effects occurring prior to word onset. We have demonstrated fundamental limitations in the underlying logic of this method. We propose passive control systems as baselines against which claims of prediction should be evaluated. Against this baseline, the current evidence does not show unequivocal support for prediction: pre-onset encoding in the brain does not exceed that in the passive control. However, we do not conclude from this that pre-activation does not exist — that would require a different study entirely. Our aim is more methodological: to establish what should count as evidence for prediction, not to settle whether prediction occurs.

      We would like to thank the reviewers and editors for their thoughtful feedback, which has been tremendously helpful in improving the paper.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      We sincerely thank the editor and both reviewers for their time and thoughtful feedback on our manuscript. We have carefully addressed all the concerns raised in the responses below and incorporated the suggested revisions into the manuscript.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors investigated the population structure of the invasive weed Lantana camara from 36 localities in India using 19,008 genome-wide SNPs obtained through ddRAD sequencing.

      Strengths:

      The manuscript is well-written, the analyses are sound, and the figures are of great quality.

      Weaknesses:

      The narrative almost completely ignores the fact that this plant is popular in horticultural trade and the different color morphs that form genetic populations are most likely the result of artificial selection by humans for certain colors for trade, and not the result of natural selfing. Although it may be possible that the genetic clustering of color morphs is maintained in the wild through selfing, there is no evidence in this study to support that. The high levels of homozygosity are more likely explained as a result of artificial selection in horticulture and relatively recent introductions in India. Therefore, the claim of the title that "the population structure.. is shaped by its mating system" is in part moot, because any population structure is in large part shaped by the mating system of the organism, but further misleading because it is much more likely artificial selection that caused the patterns observed.

      The reviewer raises the possibility that the observed genetic patterns may have originated through the selection of different varieties by the horticultural industry. While it is plausible that artificial selection can lead to the formation of distinct morphs, the presence of a strong structure between them in the wild populations cannot be explained just based on selection. The observed patterns in the inbreeding coefficient and heterozygosity can indeed arise from multiple factors, including past bottlenecks, selection, inbreeding, and selfing. In the wild, different flower colour variants frequently occur in close physical proximity and should, in principle, allow for cross-fertilization. Over time, this gene flow would be expected to erode any genetic structure shaped solely by past selection. However, our results show no evidence of such a breakdown in structure. Despite co-occurring in immediate proximity, the flower colour variants maintain distinct genetic identities. This suggests the presence of a barrier to gene flow, likely maintained by the species' mating system. Moreover, the presence of many of these flower colour morphs in the native range—as documented through observations on platforms like iNaturalist—suggests that these variants may have a natural origin rather than being solely products of horticultural selection.

      While it is plausible that horticultural breeding involved efforts to generate new varieties through crossing—resulting in the emergence of some of the observed morphs—even if this were the case, the dynamics of a self-fertilizing species would still lead to rapid genetic structuring. Following hybridization, just a few generations of selfing are sufficient to produce inbred lines, which can then maintain distinct genetic identities. As discussed in our manuscript, such inbred lines could be associated with specific flower colour morphs and persist through predominant self-fertilization. This mechanism provides a compelling explanation for the strong genetic structure observed among co-occurring flower colour variants in the wild.

      To further validate this, we conducted a bagging experiment on Lantana camara inflorescences to exclude insect-mediated cross-pollination. The results showed no significant difference in seed set between bagged and open-pollinated flowers, supporting the conclusion that L. camara is primarily self-fertilizing in India. These results are included in the revised manuscript.

      As the reviewer rightly points out, the mating system of a species plays a crucial role in shaping patterns of genetic structure. However, in many natural populations, structuring patterns are often influenced by a combination of factors such as selection, barriers to gene flow, and genetic drift. In some cases, the mating system exerts a more prominent influence at the microgeographic level, while in others, it can shape genetic structure at broader spatial scales. What is particularly interesting in our study is that - the mating system appears to shape genetic structure at a subcontinental scale. Despite the species having undergone other evolutionary forces—such as a genetic bottleneck and expansion due to its invasive nature—the mating system exerts a more pronounced effect on the observed genetic patterns, and the influence of the mating system is remarkably strong, resulting in a clear and consistent genetic structure across populations.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Lantana camara is a globally invasive plant as the authors mention in their manuscript, but this study only focuses on India. This should be reflected in the title.

      The reviewer has suggested that the title should reflect the study area. Since our sampling covers nearly all regions in India, we believe the patterns observed here are likely representative of those in other parts of the invaded range. For this reason, we would prefer to retain the current heading.

      It would be helpful if the pictures of the flowers in Figure 3 were larger to more clearly see the different colors.

      As per the reviewers suggestion we have increased the size of the images to improve clarity.

      Figure 4 could probably be moved to supplemental material, it does not add much to the results.

      We feel it is important to reiterate that the patterns we observe in Lantana are consistent with what one would expect in any predominantly self-fertilizing species. It act as an additional proof and therefore, we believe it is important to retain this figure, as it effectively conveys this link.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors performed a series of population genetic analyses in Lantana camara using 19,008 genome-wide SNPs data from 359 individuals in India. They found a clear population structure that did not show a geographical pattern, and that flower color was rather associated with population structure. Excess of homozygosity indicates a high selfing rate, which may lead to fixation of alleles in local populations and explain the presence of population structure without a clear geographic pattern. The authors also performed a forward simulation analysis, theoretically confirming that selfing promotes fixation of alleles (higher Fst) and reduction in genetic diversity (lower heterozygosity).

      Strengths:

      Biological invasion is a critical driver of biodiversity loss, and it is important to understand how invasive species adapt to novel environments despite limited genetic diversity (genetic paradox of biological invasion). Lantana camara is one of the hundred most invasive species in the world (IUCN 2000), and the authors collected 359 plants from a wide geographical range in India, where L. camara has invaded. The scale of the dataset and the importance of the target species are the strengths of the present study.

      Weaknesses:

      One of the most critical weaknesses of this study would be that the output modelling analysis is largely qualitative, which cannot be directly comparable to the empirical data. The main findings of the SLiM-based simulation were that selfing promotes the fixation of alleles and the reduction of genetic diversity. These are theoretically well-reported knowledge, and such findings themselves are not novel, although it may have become interesting these findings are quantitatively integrated with their empirical findings in the studied species. In that sense, a coalescent-based analysis such as an Approximate Bayesian Computation method (e.g. DIY-ABC) utilizing their SNPs data would be more interesting. For example, by ABC-based methods, authors can infer the split time between subpopulations identified in this study. If such split time is older than the recorded invasion date, the result supports the scenario that multiple introductions may have contributed to the population structure of this species. In the current form of the manuscript, multiple introductions were implicated but not formally tested.

      Through our SLiM simulations, we aimed to demonstrate that a pattern of strong genetic structure within a location (similar to what we observed in Lantana camara) can arise under a predominantly self-fertilizing mating system. These simulations were not parameterized using species-specific data from Lantana but were intended as a conceptual demonstration of the plausibility of such patterns under selfing using SNP data. While the theoretical consequences of self-fertilisation have been widely discussed, relatively few studies have directly modelled these patterns using SNP data. Our SLiM simulations contribute to this gap and support the notion that the observed genetic structuring in Lantana may indeed result from predominant self-fertilisation. Therefore, we conducted these simulations ourselves for invasive plants to test whether the patterns we observed are consistent with expectations for a predominantly self-fertilising species.

      Additionally, as suggested by the reviewer, we have performed demographic history simulations using fastsimcoal2 to investigate the divergence among different flower colour morphs. The results have been incorporated into the revised manuscript.

      First, the authors removed SNPs that were not in Hardy-Weinberg equilibrium (HWE), but the studied populations would not satisfy the assumption of HWE, i.e., random mating, because of a high level of inbreeding. Thus, the first screening of the SNPs would be biased strongly, which may have led to spurious outputs in a series of downstream analyses.

      Applying a HWE filter is a common practice in genomic data analysis because it helps remove potential sequencing or genotyping artefacts, which can otherwise bias downstream analyses. However, we understand that HWE filtering can also remove biologically informative loci and potentially bias the analysis, especially when a stringent cutoff is used. A strict filter might retain only loci that perfectly fit Hardy–Weinberg expectations and exclude sites influenced by real evolutionary processes like selection and/or inbreeding.

      To balance this, we used a mild HWE filter, aiming to remove clear artefacts while retaining loci that may reflect genuine biological signals. Another reason for applying it is that many downstream tools, for example, admixture, assume the markers are neutral and not strongly deviating from HWE (although this assumption may not always hold). This helps in avoiding the complexity of the model.

      Second, in the genetic simulation, it is not clear how a set of parameters such as mutation rate, recombination rate, and growth rate were determined and how they are appropriate.

      We have cited the references for these values in the manuscript. However, for Lantana, many such baseline data are not available, so we used general values reported for plants, which is an accepted approach when working with understudied species. Moreover, the aim of these simulations was to develop a general understanding of how mating systems influence genetic diversity in invasive plants, rather than to parameterize the simulations specifically for Lantana.

      While we acknowledge that this simulation does not provide an exact representation of the species' evolutionary history, the goal of the simulation was not to produce precise estimates but rather to illustrate the feasibility of such strong genetic structuring resulting from self-fertilisation alone.

      Importantly, while authors assume the selfing rate in the simulation, selfing can also strongly influence the effective mutation rate (e.g. Nordborg & Donnelly 1997 Genetics, Nordborg 2000 Genetics). It is not clear how this effect is incorporated in the simulation.

      In genetic simulations, it is often best to begin with simpler scenarios involving fewer parameters, and we followed this approach. As the reviewer rightly pointed out, selfing can influence multiple factors such as mutation and recombination rates. However, to first understand the broad effects, we chose to work with simpler scenarios where both mutation and recombination rates were kept constant.

      Third, while the authors argue the association between flower color and population structure, their statistical associations were not formally tested.

      We thank the reviewer for this valuable suggestion. We have performed a MANOVA to test the association between flower colour and genetic structure. These results are incorporated in the revised manuscript.

      Also, it is not mentioned how flower color polymorphisms are defined. Could it be possible to distinguish many flower color morphs shown in Figure 1b objectively?

      We carefully considered this and defined our criteria based on flower colour. Specifically, we named morphs according to the colour of both young and old flowers. If both stages shared the same colour, we used that colour as the name. As shown in Figure 1b, it is possible to reliably distinguish between the different flower colour morphs. While one could also measure flower colour using a photometer, we believe both approaches yield similar results.

      I am concerned particularly because the authors also mentioned that flower color may change temporally and that a single inflorescence can have flowers of different colors (L160).

      The flower colour changes within an inflorescence, with young flowers shifting colour after pollination. However, this trend is consistent within a plant; for example, the yellow–pink morph always changes from yellow to pink. Based on this consistency, we incorporated a naming system that considers both the colour of younger and older flowers.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Figure 4: Figures a and b are not the "signatures of high inbreeding", because such patterns could also simply happen due to geographical isolation. The title of the figure could be changed. Figure 4c should be presented as a histogram.

      We have incorporated this suggestion into the manuscript and revised the figure title accordingly. However, we believe that presenting Figure 4c in its current form is more informative.

      L459 "in the introduced range, Lantana is self-compatible": is it self-incompatible in the native range? If it is known, it could be mentioned in the manuscript.

      A previous study from India demonstrated that self-fertilisation is possible in Lantana, providing an additional line of evidence for our findings. However, Lantana remains poorly studied in its native range, and to the best of our knowledge, only a single study has examined its pollination biology there, which we have cited in this paper.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      In this paper, Chen et al. identified a role for the circadian photoreceptor CRYPTOCHROME (cry) in promoting wakefulness under short photoperiods. This research is potentially important as hypersomnolence is often seen in patients suffering from SAD during winter times. The mechanisms underlying these sleep effects are poorly known.

      Strengths:

      The authors clearly demonstrated that mutations in cry lead to elevated sleep under 4:20 Light-Dark (LD) cycles. Furthermore, using RNAi, they identified GABAergic neurons as a primary site of cry action to promote wakefulness under short photoperiods. They then provide genetic and pharmacological evidence demonstrating that cry acts on GABAergic transmission to modulate sleep under such conditions.

      Weaknesses:

      The authors then went on to identify the neuronal location of this cry action on sleep. This is where this reviewer is much more circumspect about the data provided. The authors hypothesize that the l-LNvs which are known to be arousal-promoting may be involved in the phenotypes they are observing. To investigate this, they undertook several imaging and genetic experiments.

      Major concerns:

      (1) Figure 2 A-B: The authors show that knocking down cry expression in GABAergic neurons mimics the sleep increase seen in cryb mutants under short photoperiod. However, they do not provide any other sleep parameters such as sleep bout numbers, sleep bout duration, and more importantly waking activity measurements. This is an essential parameter that is needed to rule out paralysis and/or motor defects as the cause of increased "sleep". Any experiments looking at sleep need to include these parameters.

      Thank you for bringing up these points. We have now included these sleep parameters in Figure 2—figure supplement 3.

      (2) For all Figures displaying immunostaining and imaging data the resolution of the images is quite poor. This makes it difficult to assess whether the authors' conclusions are supported by the data or not.

      We apologize for the poor resolution. This is probably due to the compression of the figures in the merged PDF file. We are now uploading the figures individually and hopefully this can resolve the resolution issue.

      (3) In Figure 4-S1A it appears that the syt-GFP signal driven by Gad1-GAL4 is colabeling the l-LNvs. This would imply that the l-LNvs are GABAergic. The authors suggest that this experiment suggests that l-LNvs receive input from GABAergic neurons. I am not sure the data presented support this.

      We agree that this piece of data alone is not sufficient to demonstrate that the l-LNvs receive GABAergic inputs rather than the l-LNvs are GABAergic. However, when nlsGFP signal is driven by two independent Gad1-GAL4 lines (one generated by P element insertion while the other generated by GAL4 inserted into the Gad1 locus), we do not observe any prominent signal in the l-LNvs (Figure 5A and B; Figure 5-figure supplement 1A). We have also co-labeled using Gad1GAL4 and PdfLexA (Figure 5-figure supplement 1B). As can be seen, Gad1GAL4-driven GFP signal is present only in the s-LNvs but not the l-LNvs. This further supports the idea that the l-LNvs are not GABAergic, and that the syt-GFP signal likely arises from GABAergic neurons projecting to the l-LNvs.

      (4) In Figure 4-S1B. The GRASP experiment is not very convincing. The resolution of the image is quite poor. In addition, the authors used Pdf-LexA to express the post t-GRASP construct in l-LNvs, but Pdf-LexA also labels the s-LNvs, so it is possible that the GRASP signal the authors observe is coming from the s-LNvs and not the l-LNvs. The authors could use a l-LNvs specific tool to do this experiment and remove any doubts. Altogether this reviewer is not convinced that the data presented supports the conclusion "All in all, these results demonstrate that GABAergic neurons project to the l-LNvs and form synaptic connections." (Line 176). In addition, the authors could have downregulated the expression of Rdl specifically in l-LNvs to support their conclusions. The data they are providing supports a role for RDL but does not prove that RDL is involved in l-LNvs.

      Thank you for these wonderful suggestions. Again we apologize for the poor resolution and hopefully by uploading the images separately we can resolve this issue. We agree that the GRASP signal could be coming from the s-LNvs and not the l-LNvs but unfortunately we are not able to find a LexA that is specifically expressed in the l-LNvs. We believe the trans-Tango data further support the idea that GABAergic neurons project to and form synaptic connections with the l-LNvs. Nonetheless, we have changed our conclusion to “All in all, these results strongly suggest that GABAergic neurons project to the l-LNvs and form synaptic connections” to be more rigorous. In addition, we have obtained R78G01GAL4 which is specifically expressed in the l-LNvs, and using this GAL4 to knock down Rdl rescues the long-sleep phenotype of cry mutants (Figure 4—figure supplement 1D).

      (5) In Figures 4 A and C: it appears that GABA is expressed in the l-LNvs. Is this correct? Can the authors clarify this? Maybe the authors could do an experiment where they co-label using Gad1-GAL4 and Pdf-LexA to clearly demonstrate that l-LNvs are not GABAergic. Also, the choice of colors could be better. It is very difficult to see what GABA is and what is PDF.

      Thank you for this wonderful suggestion. We have now co-labeled using Gad1GAL4 and PdfLexA (Figure 5-figure supplement 1B). As can be seen, Gad1GAL4-driven GFP signal is present only in the s-LNvs but not the l-LNvs. We suspect the GABA signal at the l-LNvs may arise from the GABAergic projections received by these cells. We have now changed the color of the GABA/PDF signals in these images and have reduced the intensity of the PDF signal. Hopefully, it would be easier to visualize in this revised version.

      (6) Figure 4G: Pdf-GAL4 expresses in both s-LNvs and l-LNvs. So, in this experiment, the authors are silencing both groups, not only the l-LNvs. Why not use a l-LNvs specific tool?

      Thank you for bring up this important point. We have previously used c929GAL4 to express Kir2.1 and this led to lethality. We have now used two l-LNv-specific GAL4 drivers (R78G01GAL4 and R10H10GAL4) that we newly obtained to express Kir2.1 but did not observe significant effect on sleep. Please see Author response image 1 for the results.

      Author response image 1.

      Daily sleep duration of male flies expressing Kir2.1 in l-LNvs using R78G01GAL4 (A)(n = 40, 41, 30 flies) and R10H10GAL4 (B) (n = 40, 41, 32 flies) and controls, monitored under 4L20D. One-way ANOVA with Bonferroni multiple comparison test was used to calculate the difference between experimental group and control group.

      (7) Figure 4H-I: The C929-GAL4 driver expresses in many peptidergic neurons. This makes the interpretation of these data difficult. The effects could be due to peptidergic cells being different than the l-LNvs. Why not use a more specific l-LNvs specific tool? I am also confused as to why some experiments used Pdf-GAL4 and some others used C929-GAL4 in a view to specifically manipulate l-LNvs? This is confusing since both drivers are not specific to the l-LNvs.

      Thank you for bring up these important points. We have now used the l-LNv-specific R10H10GAL4 and the results are more or less comparable with that of c929GAL4 (Figure 4I and K), i.e. activating the l-LNvs blocks the long-sleep phenotype of cry mutants. The reason PdfGAL4 is used in 4G is because c929GAL4 leads to lethality while the l-LNv-specific GAL4 lines do not alter sleep.

      (8) Figure 5-S1B: Why does the pdf-GAL80 construct not block the sleep increase seen when reducing expression of cry in Gad1-GAL4 neurons? This suggests that there are GABAergic neurons that are not PDF expressing involved in the cry-mediated effect on sleep under short photoperiods.

      Yes, this is indeed the conclusion we draw from this result, and we commented on this in the Discussion: “Moreover, inhibiting cry RNAi expression in PDF neurons does not eliminate the long-sleep phenotype of Gad1GAL4/UAScryRNAi flies. Therefore, we suspect that cry deficiency in other GABAergic neurons is also required for the long-sleep phenotype. Given that the s-LNvs are known to express CRY and appear to be GABAergic based on our findings here, we believe that CRY acts at least in part in the s-LNvs to promote wakefulness under short photoperiod.”

      In conclusion, it is not clear that the authors demonstrated that they are looking at a cry-mediated effect on GABA in s-LNvs resulting in a modulation of the activity of the l-LNvs. Better images and more-suited genetic experiments could be used to address this.

      Thank you very much for all the comments. They are indeed quite helpful for improving our manuscript. Hopefully, with images of higher quality and the additional experiments described above, we have now provided more evidence supporting our major conclusion.

      Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      The sleep patterns of animals are adaptable, with shorter sleep durations in the winter and longer sleep durations in the summer. Chen and colleagues conducted a study using Drosophila (fruit flies) and discovered that a circadian photoreceptor called cryptochrome (cry) plays a role in reducing sleep duration during day/night cycles resembling winter conditions. They also found that cry functions in specific GABAergic circadian pacemaker cells known as s-LNvs inhibit these neurons, thereby promoting wakefulness in the animals in the winter. They also identified l-LNvs, known as arousal-promoting cells, as the downstream neurons.

      Strengths:

      Detailed mapping of the neural circuits cry acts to mediate the shortened sleep in winter-like day/night cycles.

      Weaknesses:

      The supporting evidence for s-LNvs being GABAergic neurons is not particularly strong. Additionally, there is a lack of direct evidence regarding changes in neural activity for s-LNvs and l-LNvs under varying day/night cycles, as well as in cry mutant flies.

      Thank you very much for all the comments. We have now expressed nlsGFP by two independent Gad1-GAL4 lines (one generated by P element insertion while the other generated by GAL4 inserted into the Gad1 locus), and positive signals in the s-LNvs can be observed (Figure 5A and B; Figure 5-figure supplement 1A). Hopefully, this can provide some further support regarding the s-LNvs being GABAergic neurons.

      We have now examined GCaMP signals in the l- and s-LNvs of WT and cry mutants under 4L20D/12L12D. Please see Author response image 2 for the results. As can be seen, both WT and cry mutants show photoperiod-dependent changes. Interestingly, cry mutants show more prominent reduction of GCaMP signal in the l-LNvs compared to WT under 12L12D vs. 4L20D, but the sleep duration phenotype is observed only under 4L20D. Moreover, GCaMP signal is elevated in the s-LNvs of cry mutants relative to WT under 4L20D but decreased under 12L12D. These results indicate that there are distinct mechanisms regulating sleep under short vs. normal photoperiod (with CRY being dispensable under 12L12D), and the role of CRY in modulating the activity of these neurons are also photoperiod-dependent. Further in-depth characterizations are need to delineate these complex issues.

      Author response image 2.<br /> Quantification of GCaMP6m signal intensity normalized to that of tdTomato under 12L12D and 4L20D (n = 25-45 cells). Student’s t-test: compared to WT, #P < 0.05, ##P < 0.01; 12L12D vs. 4L20D, *P < 0.05, ***P < 0.001.

      Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      In humans, short photoperiods are associated with hypersomnolence. The mechanisms underlying these effects are, however, unknown. Chen et al. use the fly Drosophila to determine the mechanisms regulating sleep under short photoperiods. They find that mutations in the circadian photoreceptor cryptochrome (cry) increase sleep specifically under short photoperiods (e.g. 4h light: 20 h dark). They go on to show that cry is required in GABAergic neurons. Further, they suggest that the relevant subset of GABAergic neurons are the well-studied small ventral lateral neurons that they suggest inhibit the arousal-promoting large ventral neurons via GABA signalling.

      Strengths:

      Genetic analysis to show that cryptochrome (but not other core clock genes) mediates the increase in sleep in short photoperiods, and circuit analysis to localise cry function to GABAergic neurons.

      Weaknesses:

      The authors' conclusion that the sLNvs are GABAergic is not well supported by the data. Better immunostaining experiments and perhaps more specific genetic driver lines would help with this point (details below).

      (1) The sLNvs are well known as a key component of the circadian network. The finding that they are GABAergic would if true, be of great interest to the community. However, the data presented in support of this conclusion are not convincing. Much of the confocal images are of insufficient resolution to evaluate the paper's claims. The Anti-GABA immunostaining in Fig 4 and 5 seem to have a high background, and the GRASP experiments in Fig 4 supplement 1 low signal.

      We apologize for the poor resolution. This is probably due to the compression of the figures in the merged PDF file. We are now uploading the figures individually and hopefully this can resolve the resolution issue. Unfortunately, the GABA immunostaining does not work very well in our hands and thus the background is high. We have now adjusted the images by changing the minimum lookup table (LUT) value in the green channel to 213, which removes all pixels below 213. This can remove background without changing the gray values, so the analysis is not affected. We have modified all images the exact same way and hopefully this can improve the contrast. Furthermore, we have now expressed nlsGFP by two independent Gad1-GAL4 lines (one generated by P element insertion while the other generated by GAL4 inserted into the Gad1 locus), and positive signals in the s-LNvs can be observed (Figure 5A and B; Figure 5-figure supplement 1A). Hopefully, this can provide some further support regarding the s-LNvs being GABAergic neurons.

      Transcriptomic datasets are available for the components of the circadian network (e.g. PMID 33438579, and PMID 19966839). It would be of interest to determine if transcripts for GAD or other GABA synthesis/transport components were detected in sLNvs. Further, there are also more specific driver lines for GAD, and the lLNvs, sLNVs that could be used.

      Thank you for these wonderful suggestions. Based on PMID 19966839, both the s-LNvs and l-LNvs express Gad1 and VGAT at a relatively low level, although here in our study Gad1GAL4 expression is observed only in the s-LNvs and not l-LNvs. We have commented on this in the 4th paragraph of Discussion: “One study using cell-type specific gene expression profiling demonstrates Gad1 and VGAT expression in both s-LNvs and l-LNvs, although with relatively low signal (Nagoshi et al., 2010). Here we observed that Gad1GAL4 is expressed in the s-LNvs, and their GABA intensity is reduced when we use R6GAL4 to knock down VGAT in these cells.” PMID 33438579 does not report expression of these genes in either s-LNvs or l-LNvs, likely due to insufficient sequencing depth. Furthermore, we have now used two l-LNv-specific GAL4 lines (R78G01GAL4 and R10H10GAL4) to conduct some of the experiments that we previously used c929GAL4 for, and obtained comparable results (Figure 4I and K).

      (2) The authors' model posits that in short photoperiods, cry functions to suppress GABA secretion from sLNvs thereby disinhibiting the lNVs. In Fig 4I they find that activating the lLNvs (and other peptidergic cells) by c929>NaChBac in a cryb background reduces sleep compared to activating lLNVs in a wild-type background. It's not clear how this follows from the model. A similar trend is observable in Fig 4H with TRP-mediated activation of lNVs, although it is not clear from the figure if the difference b/w cryb vs wild-type background is significant.

      Thank you for bring up this important point. This does appear to be counterintuitive. We suspect that in cry mutants, there is more inhibition occurring at the l-LNvs and thus the system may be particularly sensitive to their activation. Therefore, activating these neurons on the mutant background can result in a more prominent wake-promoting effect compared to that of WT.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Our major concern centers around the claim that the sLNvs are GABAergic and secrete GABA onto the lLNVs. As it stands, this is not well supported by the data.

      The authors could substantiate these findings by using more specific driver lines for GAD / vGAT (MiMic based lines are available that should better recapitulate endogenous expression). Transcriptomic data for circadian neurons are available, the FlyWire consortium also predicts neurotransmitter identities for specific neural circuits. These datasets could be mined for evidence to support the claim of sLNvs being GABAergic

      Thank you for these wonderful suggestions. We have now used MiMic-based lines for Gad1 (BS52090, Mi{MIC}Gad1MI09277) and VGAT (BS23022, Mi{ET1}VGATMB01219) to knock down cry but unfortunately were not able to observe changes in sleep. Please see Author response image 3 for the results.

      Author response image 3.

      Daily sleep duration of male flies with cry knocked down in GABAergic neurons by Gad1GAL4 (A) (n = 30, 38, 50, 18, 31 flies) or VGATGAL4 (B) (n = 28, 38, 50, 18, 30 flies) monitored under 4L20D.One-way ANOVA with Bonferroni multiple comparison test: compared to UAS control, ###P < 0.001.

      Furthermore, we have now included another Gad1GAL4 line which is generated by knocking GAL4 transgene into the Gad1 locus. We are also able to observe increased sleep when using this GAL4 to knock down cry, and positive signals in the s-LNvs can be observed when using this GAL4 to drive nlsGFP (Figure 2B; Figure 5-figure supplement 1A).

      Based on PMID 19966839, both the s-LNvs and l-LNvs express Gad1 and VGAT at a relatively low level, although here in our study Gad1GAL4 expression is observed only in the s-LNvs and not l-LNvs. We have commented on this in the 4th paragraph of Discussion: “One study using cell-type specific gene expression profiling demonstrates Gad1 and VGAT expression in both s-LNvs and l-LNvs, although with relatively low signal (Nagoshi et al., 2010). Here we observed that Gad1GAL4 is expressed in the s-LNvs, and their GABA intensity is reduced when we use R6GAL4 to knock down VGAT in these cells.” The FlyWire does not have prediction for this particular circuit that we are interested in.

      Further, many of the immunostaining images have high background / low signal - so better confocal images would help, as would the use of more specific driver lines for the lNVs as it is sometimes hard to distinguish the lLNvs from sLNvs.

      We have now adjusted all images by changing the minimum lookup table (LUT) value in the green channel to 213 and that of the red channel to 279, which removes all pixels below 213 and 279, respectively. This can remove background without changing the gray values, so the analysis is not affected. We have modified all images the exact same way and hopefully this can improve the signal to noise ratio. We were not able to find a LexA line that is specifically expressed in the l-LNvs but we have found two l-LNv-specific GAL4 lines (R78G01GAL4 and R10H10GAL4). We used these lines to conduct some of the experiments that we previously used c929GAL4 for, and obtained comparable results (Figure 4I and 4K).

      Additional specific comments are in the reviews above.

      Minor points:

      (1) Line 55: CRYPTOCHROME is misspelled.

      This has been fixed.

      (2) Line 140: The authors need to provide the appropriate references for the use of THIP and SKF-97541.

      This has been added.

      (3) Line 149: there are multiple GABA-A receptors in flies, the authors should acknowledge that. What about LccH3 or Grd?

      Thank you for bring up this important point. Here we focused only on Rdl because it is the only GABA-A receptor known to be involved in sleep regulation. We have modified our description regarding this issue: “We tested for genetic interaction between cry and Resistant to dieldrin (Rdl), a gene that encodes GABA-A receptor in flies and has previously been shown to be involved in sleep regulation.”

    1. Author response:

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors developed a new autofocusing method, LUNA (Locking Under Nanoscale Accuracy), to address severe focus drift-a major challenge in time-lapse microscopy. Using this method, they tackle a fundamental question in bacterial cold shock response: whether cells halt growth and division following an abrupt temperature downshift. Overall, the experimental design, modeling, and data analysis are solid and well executed. However, several points require clarification or further support to fully substantiate the authors' conclusions.

      Strengths:

      (1) The LUNA method outperforms existing autofocusing systems with nanoscale precision over a large focusing range. The focusing time is reasonable for the presented experiments, and the authors note potential improvements by using faster motors and optimized control algorithms, suggesting broad applicability. The theoretical simulations and experimental validation provide solid support for the robustness of the method.

      (2) Using LUNA, the authors address a long-standing question in bacterial physiology: whether cells arrest growth and division after an abrupt cold shock. Single-cell analyses monitoring the entire course of cold adaptation and steady-state growth reveal features that are obscured in bulk-culture studies: cells continue to grow at reduced rates with smaller cell sizes, resulting in an apparently unchanged population-level OD. The experiments are well designed and analyses are generally solid and largely support the authors' conclusions.

      (3) The authors also propose a model describing how population-level OD measurements depend on cell dry mass density, volume, and concentration. This provides a valuable conceptual contribution to the interpretation of OD-based growth measurements, which remain a gold-standard method in microbiology.

      We thank the reviewer for acknowledging the strengths of our study.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) It is unclear whether the author's model explaining the population-level OD during acclimation is broadly applicable. Most analyses focus on a shift from 37˚C to 14˚C, where the model agrees well with experimental data. However, in the 37˚C to 12˚C experiment, OD600 decreases after cold shock (Fig. 5e), and the computed OD does not match the experimental measurements (Fig. S16a). Although the authors attribute this discrepancy to a "complicated interplay," no further explanation is provided, which limits confidence in the model's general applicability.

      Thank you for this careful evaluation regarding the model generality. In the experiment with a temperature shift from 37°C to 12°C, the measured OD600 values were 0.243 at 0 hours and 0.242 at 5 hours. In comparison, our model-computed OD600 values were 0.243 at 0 hours and 0.271 at 5 hours. The absolute difference between the measured and computed values at 5 hours is therefore 0.028.

      Given the typical experimental variability in OD600 measurements and the limited linear range of the OD-to-biomass approximation (generally considered reliable below ~0.5), this deviation is quantitatively modest. We appreciate your valuable feedback and are happy to provide further clarification if needed.

      (2) The manuscript proposes that cell-cycle progression becomes synchronized across the population after cold shock, but the supporting evidence is not fully convincing. If synchronization refers primarily to the uniform reduction in growth rate following cold shock, this could plausibly arise from global translation inhibition affecting all cells. However, the additional claim that "cells encountering a relatively late CSR will accelerate division to maintain synchronization" is not strongly supported by the presented data.

      We appreciate your critical reading, which has helped us identify ambiguities in our terminology and strengthen the clarity of our work. Regarding the term “synchronization”, we would like to clarify that it refers to two different scenarios: (i) the synchrony in the timing of growth rate changes after cold shock. The cells initiate the slowdown in growth almost simultaneously, suggesting a highly coordinated, non-stochastic population-level response to cold shock; (ii) the synchrony in division cycle progression.

      In the sentence you referenced “cells encountering a relatively late CSR will accelerate divisions to maintain synchronization”, we intended to describe that cells maintain consistent progression of the division cycle after cold shock, meaning that after the same number of elapsed cycles, different cells are at a similar stage in their division timing (Figure 4f, 4g, Figure S14). The term “accelerate” refers to our observation that cells which complete a given cycle later than others tend to have shorter subsequent inter-division intervals, thereby “catching up” to maintain alignment in cycle number across the population. We acknowledge that using “synchronization” in this scenario may be ambiguous, and we will replace it with more precise phrasing “progression of division cycle” to accurately convey this finding.

      (3) Several technical terms used in the method development section are not clearly defined and may be unfamiliar to a broad readership, which makes it difficult to fully understand the methodology and evaluate its performance. Examples include depth of focus, focusing precision, focusing time, focusing frequency, and drift threshold value. In addition, the reported average focusing time per location (~0.6 s) lacks sufficient context, limiting the reader's ability to assess its significance relative to existing autofocusing methods.

      Thank you for your valuable comments and suggestions. In response, we have added more detailed descriptions in the Methods section of the revised version.

      The reviewer noted that the reported average focusing time (~0.6 s) lacks sufficient context, which may limit readers’ ability to assess its significance relative to existing autofocusing methods. We would like to clarify that the core innovation of this work lies in the proposed theoretical framework for autofocusing, which offers advantages over existing methods in terms of focusing precision and range. While focusing time is a practically relevant performance metric, it is primarily presented here as an implementation-dependent parameter rather than a central theoretical contribution of this study. In our experimental setup, an average focusing time of 0.6 s proved sufficient for routine timelapse imaging in microscopy, thereby demonstrating the practical usability of LUNA.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study presents LUNA, an autofocus method that compensates for focus drift during rapid temperature changes. Using this approach, the authors show that E. coli cells continue to grow and divide during cold shock, revealing a coordinated, multi-phase adaptation process that could not be deduced from traditional population measurements. They propose a scattering-theory-based model that reconciles the paradox between growth differences of the bacteria at the single-cell level vs population level.

      Strengths:

      (1) The LUNA approach is pretty creative, turning coma aberration from what is normally a nuisance into an exploit. LUNA enabled long-term single-cell imaging during rapid temperature downshifts.

      (2) The authors show that the long-assumed growth arrest during cold shock from population-level measurements is misleading. At the single-cell level, bacteria do not stop growing or dividing but undergo a continuous, three-phase adaptation process. Importantly, this behavior is highly synchronized across the population and not based on bet-hedging.

      (3) Finally, the authors propose a model to resolve a long-standing paradox between single-cell vs population behavior: if cells keep growing, why does optical density (OD) of the culture stop increasing? Using light-scattering theory, they show that OD depends not only on cell number but also on cell volume, which decreases after cold shock. As a result, OD can remain flat, or even decrease, despite continued biomass accumulation. This demonstrates that OD is not a reliable proxy for growth under non-steady conditions.

      We thank the reviewer for acknowledging the strengths of our study.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) While the authors theoretically explain the advantages of LUNA over existing autofocus methods, it is unclear whether practical head-to-head comparisons have been performed, apart from the comparison to Nikon PFS shown in Video S1. As written, the manuscript gives the impression that only LUNA can solve this problem, but such a claim would require more systematic and rigorous benchmarking against alternative approaches.

      Thank you for your insightful comment regarding the comparison of LUNA with other autofocus methods.

      In our study, we primarily compared LUNA with the Nikon PFS system (as shown in Video S1) because Nikon PFS is one of the most widely used commercial autofocus systems in single-cell time-lapse imaging, and its manufacturer provides well-defined performance parameters (e.g., focusing precision within 1/3 depth-of-focus, response time <0.7 s), which facilitates a quantitative comparison. For other commercial systems, such as Olympus ZDC, Zeiss Definite Focus, Leica AFC, and ASI CRISP, the publicly available specifications are often less clearly defined, or are measured under inconsistent conditions, making a direct head-to-head comparison challenging and potentially misleading. Additionally, in our preliminary experiments, we also tested an Olympus microscope and observed severe focus drift during slow cooling processes. From a physical perspective, LUNA is specifically designed to meet the demanding requirements of single-cell experiments, including a wide focusing range and high precision, while existing commercial systems may not physically achieve the combination of range and accuracy needed for such extreme conditions.

      (2) No mutants/inhibitors used to test and challenge the proposed model.

      We agree that such approaches would provide valuable mechanistic insights and further strengthen the validation of the model presented in this study. In the current work, our primary goal was to introduce LUNA autofocusing method and demonstrate its capability to resolve bacterial cold shock response at the single-cell level with unprecedented precision. As such, we focused on characterizing the wild-type physiological dynamics under cold shock, which already revealed several previously unreported phenomena. We acknowledge that the use of genetic mutants or chemical inhibitors targeting specific cold shock proteins or regulatory pathways would be a logical and powerful next step to dissect the underlying molecular mechanisms and test the causality of the observed growth dynamics. We plan to address this in future work by incorporating such perturbations to further test and refine the model.

      (3) Cells display a high degree of synchronization, but they are grown in confined microfluidic channels under highly uniform conditions. It is unclear to what extent this synchrony reflects intrinsic biology versus effects imposed by the microfluidic environment.

      The reviewer raises a pertinent question regarding whether the observed high degree of cell synchronization represents an intrinsic biological phenomenon or an artifact induced by the microfluidic environment.

      Over the past decade, microfluidic chips, including the specific design used in our work, have become a widely accepted and powerful tool in microbial physiology research. A broad consensus has emerged within the community that the microenvironment within these microchannels does not significantly interfere with or perturb the natural physiological behavior of microorganisms (Dusny, C. & Grünberger, Curr Opin Biotechnol. 63, 26-33 (2020)). This understanding is also supported by the fact that key findings obtained with microfluidic single-cell technologies are reproducible by other methods. For example, the adder model of cell-size homeostasis in E. coli firstly observed in microfluidic chips has been repeatedly validated by different methods (Taheri-Araghi, S. et al. Curr. Biol. 25, 385-391 (2015)). Therefore, while we acknowledge the importance of considering environmental effects, we are confident that the synchronization we report reflects the genuine biological dynamics of E. coli cells.

      (4) To further test and generalize the model, it would be informative to also examine bacterial responses at intermediate temperatures rather than focusing primarily on a single cold-shock condition.

      We thank the reviewer for this thoughtful suggestion. In designing our experiments, we aimed to study the bacterial cold shock response at the single-cell level. A key feature of this response is that it is typically triggered only when the temperature drops below a certain threshold within a short time duration. We therefore chose to lower the temperature from 37 °C to 14 °C as rapidly as possible. This approach allowed us to leverage the unique capabilities of LUNA while also providing an opportunity to explore this biological process in greater detail.

      We agree that investigating bacterial responses across intermediate temperatures would be highly informative for understanding how temperature changes affect cellular physiology. However, this direction addresses a distinct scientific question that lies beyond the scope of the current work. We fully acknowledge its value and do have the intention to explore it in future studies.

    1. Author response:

      (1) Claim regarding NNDSVD initialization

      Reviewer #1:

      The authors state that "MPS is the first implementation of Constrained Non-negative Matrix Factorization (CNMF) with Nonnegative Double Singular Value Decomposition (NNDSVD) initialization." However, NNDSVD initialization is the default method in scikit-learn's NMF implementation and is also used in CaIMAN. I recommend rephrasing this claim in the abstract to more accurately reflect MPS's novelty, which appears to lie in the specific combination of constrained NMF with NNDSVD initialization, rather than being the first use of NNDSVD initialization itself.

      We agree that our original phrasing was too broad. NNDSVD-family initialization is widely used in NMF implementations (e.g., scikit-learn) and is available within some pipeline components. We revised the abstract and main text to clarify our intended contribution: MPS seeds CNMF directly with NNDSVD-derived nonnegative factors as the primary initialization strategy, rather than relying on heuristic or greedy ROI-based seeding, integrated within a memory-efficient, end-to-end workflow for long-duration miniscope recordings.

      (2) Installation issue on macOS

      Reviewer #1:

      At present, there are practical issues that limit the usability of the software. The link to the macOS installer on the documentation website is not functional. Furthermore, installation on a MacBook Pro was unsuccessful, producing the following error: "rsync(95755): error: ... Permission denied ...unexpected end of file."

      We thank the reviewer for identifying the broken installer link and the macOS installation error. We fixed the macOS installer link on the documentation website and updated installation instructions to explicitly address common macOS permission-related failures (including rsync "Permission denied" errors that arise when attempting to write into protected directories without appropriate privileges). We re-tested installation on clean macOS systems and confirmed successful installation under the revised instructions.

      (3) Validation, benchmarking, and cross-pipeline comparison

      Reviewer #2:

      A major limitation of this manuscript is that the authors don't validate the accuracy of their source extraction using ground-truth data or any benchmark against existing pipelines... Without this kind of validation, it is impossible to truly determine whether MPS produces biologically acceptable results... Considering one of the main benefits of MPS is its low memory demand and ability to run on unsophisticated hardware, the authors should include a figure that shows how processing times and memory usage scale with dataset sizes and differing pipelines... runtime comparisons on identical datasets processed through MPS, CaImAn, Minian, or CaliAli would be necessary to substantiate performance claims of MPS being "10-20X faster".

      We thank the reviewers for their careful reading and for raising the question of biological validity, which we agree is central to any calcium imaging analysis tool. We would like to clarify, however, that MPS does not introduce a novel source extraction algorithm, and therefore the question of biological validity is not one that MPS alone can answer - nor should it be expected to. MPS is built on CNMF, the same mathematical framework underlying CaImAn and Minian. The contribution of MPS lies in its initialization strategy and parallelization architecture, which allow this proven framework to operate in the multi-hour recording regime.

      To address the reviewers' request for a direct qualitative comparison, we will run MPS, CaImAn, Minian, and MIN1PIPE on a representative 10-minute real recording with clearly visible neurons. The figure will show the spatial components (ROI footprints) and representative temporal traces (ΔF/F) for all four pipelines on identical data. We anticipate that the spatial layouts and temporal dynamics will be highly concordant across pipelines, demonstrating that MPS produces biologically consistent output. We believe this side-by-side comparison will provide a clear demonstration that MPS output is comparable in quality to established tools on tractable recordings.

      Regarding runtime comparison across pipelines, we will provide a table showing approximate processing times at three recording durations (5, 20, and 180 minutes). On short recordings, all pipelines are expected to complete successfully at different rates, whereas on long-duration recordings, this pipeline behavior is expected to diverge. We acknowledge that any single runtime benchmark reflects specific hardware and dataset characteristics and may not generalize to all configurations. We will therefore present these data as illustrative rather than definitive and will direct readers to the MPS documentation for guidance on hardware-specific tuning.

      (4) Dataset description and scope of generalizability

      Reviewer #2:

      The current datasets used for validating MPS are not described in the manuscript. The manuscript appears to have 28 sessions of calcium imaging, but it is unclear if this is a single cohort or even animal, or whether these data are all from the same brain region. Importantly, the generalizability of parameter choices and performance could vary for others based on brain region differences, use of alternative calcium indicators...

      We agree that the dataset description should be centralized and unambiguous. We added a dedicated Methods subsection stating that all results are based on a single, controlled experimental dataset consisting of 28 long-duration miniscope sessions acquired under consistent conditions (same brain region, calcium indicator, optical configuration, and acquisition parameters). This section explicitly specifies the number of animals, brain region, frame rate, field of view, session duration, and total data volume. We also clarified that conclusions are intended to evaluate MPS performance in this controlled long-duration setting rather than to claim universal parameter generalizability across brain regions, indicators, or optical systems.

      (5) Parameter guidance and documentation

      Reviewer #2:

      ...users should not be expected to blindly trust default or suggested parameter selections. Instead, users need guidance on what each modifiable parameter does to their data and how each step analysis output should be interpreted. Currently, the documentation and FAQ website linked to MPS installation does not do an adequate job of describing parameters or their optimization...

      We agree that users should not blindly trust default or suggested parameters. We substantially expanded and centralized documentation by adding a parameter-selection walkthrough that explains what each modifiable parameter does, how it affects intermediate and final outputs, and how diagnostic plots generated at each stage should be interpreted. Rather than prescribing dataset-specific parameter values, we explicitly framed parameter selection as an iterative, hypothesis-driven process informed by experimental factors such as calcium indicator kinetics, lens size and numerical aperture, field of view, recording duration, and expected neuronal density. We consolidated previously dispersed explanations from the GitHub repository into a single documentation site and expanded figure descriptions to guide interpretation by less experienced users. A representative sample dataset and accompanying analysis code were made publicly available at https://github.com/ariasarch/MPS_Sample_Code to support parameter exploration on tractable data.

      (6) Packaging and distribution

      Reviewer #1:

      ...current best practices in software development increasingly rely on continuous integration and continuous deployment (CI/CD) pipelines to ensure reproducibility, testing, and long-term maintenance. In this context, it has become standard for Python packages to be distributed via PyPI or Conda. Without dismissing the value of standalone installers, the overall quality and sustainability of MPS would be greatly enhanced by also supporting conventional environment-based installations.

      Regarding distribution more broadly: while our one-click installers are intended to reduce setup burden for non-programmers, we recognize the value of conventional environment-based distribution for longterm sustainability. We are exploring the feasibility of adding a standard PyPI and/or Conda installation pathway alongside the standalone installers. To ensure reproducibility across environments, all package dependencies are now explicitly version-pinned at installation time, eliminating environment drift as a source of irreproducibility.

      We would note, however, that PyPI distribution alone does not fully resolve the reproducibility challenges inherent to scientific Python software. Even with version-pinned dependencies, downstream changes in the Python interpreter itself, compiled extension modules, and platform-specific build toolchains can silently alter numerical behavior in ways that are difficult to anticipate or control. Our standalone installers address this by shipping a complete, fixed execution environment, and we believe this remains a meaningful architectural advantage for ensuring long-term reproducibility - particularly for non-developer users who may not be in a position to diagnose subtle environment-related failures. We see PyPI/Conda support and standalone installers as complementary rather than equivalent approaches, and will pursue both where feasible.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Taken altogether, the experimental evidence favors an erosion-dominated process. However, a few minor questions remain regarding the models. Why does the equalfragmentation model predict no biomass transfer between size classes? To what extent, quantitatively, does the erosion model outperform the equal fragments model at capturing the biomass size distributions? Finally, why does the idealized erosion fail to capture the size distribution at late stages in Supplemental Figure S9 - would this discrepancy be resolved if the authors considered individual colony variances in cell adhesion (for instance, as hypothesized by the authors in lines 133-137)? I do not believe these questions curb the other results of the paper.

      Our analysis in Figure 2 considers two size classes: small colonies (l < 5) and large colonies (l ≥ 5). The equal-fragment model predicts that the fracture of a large colony gives rise to two daughter fragments with half the biovolume. For an average colony of l = 25 in diameter, this corresponds to two daughter fragments with a diameter of l = 18, which is still in the large colony class. Sequential fragmentation events would be required to set a biomass transfer to the small size range (l < 5). However, the nearly exponential behavior of the fragmentation frequency function (Eq. 5) implies that subsequent fragmentation events are greatly slowed down. Therefore, the equal-fragments model predicts that the biomass transfer from large to small colonies during the first five hours of the experiment is negligible. This is in a sharp contrast with the erosion model, which transfers biomass to the small size class at every fragmentation event. The difference between the two fragmentation models is quantified in Figure 2D, with a negligible change in biomass size distribution for the equal-fragment model (horizontal dash-dotted line) and a strong increase of small colonies for the erosion model (curved dashed line). Hence, it is clear from Figure 2D that the erosion model outperforms the equal-fragment model by capturing the observed shift from large to small colonies. We have now described this more clearly in lines 231-233.

      Nevertheless, the performance of the idealized erosion model is limited at late stages (Fig. S9D). We agree with the reviewer that this limitation could potentially be overcome with the introduction of variance in cell adhesion among colonies (as we hypothesized in lines 140142). However, this is not a trivial thing to do, as it would require additional free parameters and reduce the simplicity of the model. Therefore, we chose to restrain our model to the common assumptions of idealized fragmentation models widely used in literature (e.g. references 53-55).

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Especially the introduction seems to imply that shear force is a very important parameter controlling colony formation. However, if one looks at the results this effect is overall rather modest, especially considering the shear forces that these bacterial colonies may experience in lakes. The main conclusion seems that not shear but bacterial adhesion is the most important factor in determining colony size. The writing could have done more justice to the fact that the importance of adhesion had been described elsewhere. This being said, the same method can be used to investigate systems where shear forces are biologically more relevant.

      In this work we aimed to investigate the effects of shear forces over a wide range of values, extending beyond the regime of natural lakes into the strong mixing created by technological applications such as the bubble plumes that are applied in several lakes to suppress cyanobacterial blooms. The adhesion force between cells via, e.g., extracellular polysaccharides (EPS) play an essential role by controlling the resistance to shear-driven erosion, which has been quantified in our model by the fitting parameters S<sub>i</sub> and q<sub>i</sub>.

      We agree with the reviewer that we have missed some literature on Microcystis colony formation via cell aggregation (i.e., cell adhesion), for which we apologize. In our new revision, we have now included several new references [30-34,36] and we now describe the findings of these earlier studies. Specifically, in the Introduction we now pay more attention to the role of cell adhesion by writing (lines 53-60):

      “In contrast, cell aggregation (sometimes also called cell adhesion) can promote a rapid increase in colony size beyond the limit set by division rates, and may explain sudden rises in colony size in late bloom periods [26, 30, 31]. Aggregation rates depend on the stickiness of the colonies, which in turn is controlled by the EPS composition, pH, and ionic composition of water [27–29]. In particular, divalent cations such as Ca2+ can bridge negatively charged functional groups in EPS and therefore increase stickiness [32–34]. It has been shown that high levels of Ca2+ enhance cell aggregation in Microcystis cultures [35]. Moreover, cell aggregation can provide a fast defense against grazing [36]. Fluid flow plays an important role in cell aggregation by regulating the collision frequency between cells or colonies [6]. In addition, fluid flow ….”

      Furthermore, in the Conclusions we added (lines 374-376):

      “A previous study on colony aggregation at high Ca2+ levels observed similar morphological differences in colony formation [35]. There, an initial fast cell aggregation produced a sparse colony structure, followed by a more compact structure of the colonies associated with cell division”

      Finally, we would like to clarify a difference in terminology between the reviewer’s comment and our work. The term cell adhesion is commonly used in microbiology to refer to adhesion of cells with a solid substrate. In our work, the adhesion mediated by EPS occurs between free-floating cells and colonies. To avoid any confusion, we chose to refer to this process as cell aggregation, in line with other literature on suspended particles.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The authors have expanded on the image analysis process but now report substantially different correction factors (λ2 =2.79 compared to 73.13 in the previous submission; λ3 =0.52 compared to 13.71 in the previous submission). Could the authors comment on how the analysis changed? These correction factors for N<5 appear particularly relevant for the aggregation experiments presented in Figure 3. For measurements involving only small colonies, as in Figure 3, are these correction factors still valid? In addition, does the timing of image acquisition, i.e. when the colonies are imaged, influence the correction factors applied in this study?

      The description of the calibration process was improved in our earlier revision of the manuscript to improve clarity and remove unclear definitions. In the first version, the supplementary equation (S1) for the input variable N<sub>p</sub>[i] was defined as the number of features per frame. This variable is dependent on the frame dimension (2048x2048 px for large colonies, l>5, and 400x400 px for small colonies). We believe that a more suitable input is the concentration distribution, which is normalized by frame area, and therefore invariant to frame dimensions and less prone to misinterpretations. For this reason, we adjusted this definition of N<sub>p</sub>[i] in the revised version of the manuscript, so that it expresses the number of features per frame area (instead of per frame). These changes required the calibration constants, λ<sub>2</sub> and λ<sub>3</sub>, to be updated in the manuscript by a factor of (400 px/2048 px)<sup>2</sup>. This explains why these two calibration constants changed by a factor 0.038. This rescaling of the input variable N<sub>p</sub>[i] and the calibration constants did not affect the final results of our calculations (Figures 2 and 3).

      The authors use a moderate dissipation rate to stir the colonies, after which they allow them to sediment. How long were the particles allowed to sediment before measurements were taken? Intuitively, one might expect a greater number of colonies to be detected following sedimentation, yet the authors report only about one third of the colonies in the sedimented state. What accounts for this reduction? Furthermore, if higher shear rates are applied, do the results differ, for instance if particles are lifted further by the shear flow? Some more clarity would help other researchers to perform similar work.

      The sedimentation of particles following an initial stir was applied only for creating a reference size distribution, displayed in the supplementary Figures S8-C and D. As one intuitively would expect, a higher concentration of colonies was detected after sedimentation (Fig. S8-C and D) than during the shear flow (Fig. S8-A and B). During all other experiments in our work, the applied dissipation rate was sufficient to ensure a uniform distribution of colonies in suspension throughout the parameter range, as described in lines 461-473.

      In the caption of Figure S8 we have reported the number of colonies counted in small subsamples. These numbers are just small subsets of the total number of colonies contained in the entire volume of the cone-and-plate setup. A sub-sample with larger volume was measured during the shear flow in comparison to the sub-sample measured for the sedimented sample, leading to a larger number of counted colonies in panels A and B (N = 10776, combined) compared to panels C and D (N = 3066 and 1455, respectively).

      However, when normalized for the volume of the sub-samples, the calculated concentration of colonies is higher for panels C and D (as shown in the graphs). We understand that the earlier caption description of Figure S8 was misleading, for which we apologize. In the revised version, we have adjusted the caption to better describe the quantity:

      “Number of colonies counted during sampling …”

      Line 797 contains an unfinished edit ("Figure ADD") that should be corrected.

      The unfinished edit has been corrected in the newly revised manuscript. Thanks!

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      We appreciate the authors' efforts in addressing the concerns raised, particularly including a variance partitioning approach to analyse their data. Detailed feedback on the revised manuscript are below and we include a brief list of comments that we think the authors could address in the text: 

      (1) Justify metric selection - Could you please include in the text and explanation for why only five behavioural metrics were highlighted out of the many you calculated?

      We have added explanations throughout the manuscript clarifying the rationale for selecting these behavioral parameters, including in lines 467ff. and 531ff. In short, the five highlighted metrics were chosen because they capture key aspects of the behavioral repertoire and, importantly, can be consistently measured across all experimental conditions. Other parameters were excluded as they were only applicable under specific contexts and thus not suitable for cross-condition comparisons.

      (2) Discuss ICC variation - We note that there is variation among the ICC scores for the different metrics you've studied. While this is expected, we ask that you acknowledge in the text that some traits show high repeatability and others low, and reflect this variation in the conclusions.

      We have added an additional paragraph in the Discussion (lines 743ff.) addressing the variation in ICC values among behavioral traits. This new section highlights that some metrics show high repeatability while others exhibit lower consistency, and we discuss how this heterogeneity informs our conclusions about individual behavioral stability across contexts.

      (3) Tone down general claims - Because of the above point, we recommend that you avoid overstating that individuality persists across all behaviours. Please clarify this in the Abstract and main text that it applies to some traits more than others.

      We carefully reviewed the entire manuscript and revised the phrasing wherever necessary to avoid overgeneralization. Statements about individuality have been adjusted to clarify that consistent individuality can be measured in some behavioral traits more strongly than to others, both in the Abstract and throughout the main text.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors state the study's goal clearly: "The goal of our study was to understand to what extent animal individuality is influenced by situational changes in the environment, i.e., how much of an animal's individuality remains after one or more environmental features change." They use visually guided behavioral features to examine the extent of correlation over time and in a variety of contexts. They develop new behavioral instrumentation and software to measure behavior in Buridan's paradigm (and variations thereof), the Y-maze, and a flight simulator. Using these assays, they examine the correlations between conditions for a panel of locomotion parameters. They propose that inter-assay correlations will determine the persistence of locomotion individuality.

      Strengths: 

      The OED defines individuality as "the sum of the attributes which distinguish a person or thing from others of the same kind," a definition mirrored by other dictionaries and the scientific literature on the topic. The concept of behavioral individuality can be characterized as: (1) a large set of behavioral attributes, (2) with inter-individual variability, that are (3) stable over time. A previous study examined walking parameters in Buridan's paradigm, finding that several parameters were variable between individuals, and that these showed stability over separate days and up to 4 weeks (DOI: 10.1126/science.aaw718). The present study replicates some of those findings, and extends the experiments from temporal stability to examining correlation of locomotion features betweendifferent contexts. 

      The major strength of the study is using a range of different behavioral assays to examine the correlations of several different behavior parameters. It shows clearly that the inter-individual variability of some parameters is at least partially preserved between some contexts, and not preserved between others. The development of highthroughput behavior assays and sharing the information on how to make the assays is a commendable contribution.

      Weaknesses:

      The definition of individuality considers a comprehensive or large set of attributes, but the authors consider only a handful. In Supplemental Fig. S8, the authors show a large correlation matrix of many behavioral parameters, but these are illegible and are only mentioned briefly in Results. Why were five or so parameters selected from the full set? How were these selected? Do the correlation trends hold true across all parameters? For assays in which only a subset of parameters can be directly compared, were all of these included in the analysis, or only a subset?

      The correlation analysis is used to establish stability between assays. For temporal retesting, "stability" is certainly the appropriate word, but between contexts it implies that there could be 'instability'. Rather, instead of the 'instability' of a single brain process, a different behavior in a different context could arise from engaging largely (or entirely?) distinct context-dependent internal processes, and have nothing to do with process stability per se. For inter-context similarities, perhaps a better word would be "consistency".

      The parameters are considered one-by-one, not in aggregate. This focuses on the stability/consistency of the variability of a single parameter at a time, rather than holistic individuality. It would appear that an appropriate measure of individuality stability (or individuality consistency) that accounts for the high-dimensional nature of individuality would somehow summarize correlations across all parameters. Why was a multivariate approach (e.g. multiple regression/correlation) not used? Treating the data with a multivariate or averaged approach would allow the authors to directly address 'individuality stability', along with the analyses of single-parameter variability stability.

      The correlation coefficients are sometimes quite low, though highly significant, and are deemed to indicate stability. For example, in Figure 4C top left, the % of time walked at 23°C and 32°C are correlated by 0.263, which corresponds to an R2 of 0.069 i.e. just 7% of the 32°C variance is predictable by the 23°C variance. Is it fair to say that 7% determination indicates parameter stability? Another example: "Vector strength was the most correlated attention parameter... correlations ranged... to -0.197," which implies that 96% (1 - R2) of Y-maze variance is not predicted by Buridan variance. At what level does an r value not represent stability?

      The authors describe a dissociation between inter-group differences and interindividual variation stability, i.e. sometimes large mean differences between contexts, but significant correlation between individual test and retest data. Given that correlation is sensitive to slope, this might be expected to underestimate the variability stability (or consistency). Is there a way to adjust for the group differences before examining correlation? For example, would it be possible to transform the values to ingroup ranks prior to correlation analysis?

      What is gained by classifying the five parameters into exploration, attention, and anxiety? To what extent have these classifications been validated, both in general, and with regard to these specific parameters? Is increased walking speed at higher temperature necessarily due to increased 'explorative' nature, or could it be attributed to increased metabolism, dehydration stress, or a heat-pain response? To what extent are these categories subjective?

      The legends are quite brief and do not link to descriptions of specific experiments. For example, Figure 4a depicts a graphical overview of the procedure, but I could not find a detailed description of this experiment's protocol.

      Using the current single-correlation analysis approach, the aims would benefit from rewording to appropriately address single-parameter variability stability/consistency (as distinct from holistic individuality). Alternatively, the analysis could be adjusted to address the multivariate nature of individuality, so that the claims and the analysis are in concordance with each other.

      The study presents a bounty of new technology to study visually guided behaviors. The Github link to the software was not available. To verify successful transfer or openhardware and open-software, a report would demonstrate transfer by collaboration with one or more other laboratories, which the present manuscript does not appear to do. Nevertheless, making the technology available to readers is commendable.

      The study discusses a number of interesting, stimulating ideas about inter-individual variability, and presents intriguing data that speaks to those ideas, albeit with the issues outlined above.

      While the current work does not present any mechanistic analysis of inter-individual variability, the implementation of high-throughput assays sets up the field to more systematically investigate fly visual behaviors, their variability, and their underlying mechanisms. 

      Comments on revisions:

      While the incorporation of a hierarchical mixed model (HMM) appears to represent an improvement over their prior single-parameter correlation approach, it's not clear to me that this is a multivariate analysis. They write that "For each trait, we fitted a hierarchical linear mixed-effects model in Matlab (using the fit lme function) with environmental context as a fixed effect and fly identity (ID) as a random intercept... We computed the intraclass correlation coefficient (ICC) from each model as the betweenfly variance divided by total variance. ICC, therefore, quantified repeatability across environmental contexts."

      Does this indicate that HMM was used in a univariate approach? Can an analysis of only five metrics of several dozen total metrics be characterized as 'holistic'?

      Within Figure 10a, some of the metrics show high ICC scores, but others do not. This suggests that the authors are overstating the overall persistence and/or consistency of behavioral individuality. It is clear from Figure S8 that a large number of metrics were calculated for each fly, but it remains unclear, at least to me, why the five metrics in Figure 10a are justified for selection. One is left wondering how rare or common is the 0.6 repeatability of % time walked among all the other behavioral metrics. It appears that a holistic analysis of this large data set remains impossible. 

      We thank the reviewer for the careful and thoughtful assessment of our work.

      We have added an additional paragraph in the Discussion (lines 743ff.) explicitly addressing the variation in ICC values among behavioral traits. This section emphasizes that while some metrics show high repeatability, others exhibit lower consistency, and we discuss how this heterogeneity informs our conclusions regarding individual behavioral stability across contexts.

      Regarding the reviewer’s concern about the analytical approach, we would like to clarify that the hierarchical linear mixed model (LMM) was applied in a univariate framework—each behavioral metric was analyzed separately to estimate its individual ICC value. This approach allows us to quantify repeatability for each trait across environmental contexts while accounting for individual identity as a random effect. Although this is not a multivariate model in the strict sense, it represents an improvement over the prior pairwise correlation approach because it explicitly partitions within- and between-individual variance.

      As for the selection of behavioral metrics, the five parameters highlighted (% time walked, walking speed, vector strength, angular velocity, and centrophobicity) were chosen because they represent key, biologically interpretable dimensions of locomotor and spatial behavior and, importantly, could be measured reliably across all tested conditions. Several other parameters that we routinely analyze (e.g., Linneweber et al., 2020) could not be calculated in all contexts—for instance, under darkness or when visual cues were absent—and therefore were excluded to maintain consistency across assays.

      We agree that a truly holistic multivariate comparison across all extracted parameters would be valuable; however, given the contextual limitations of some metrics, such an analysis was not feasible in the present framework. We have clarified these points in the revised manuscript to avoid potential misunderstandings.

      The authors write: "...fly individuality persists across different contexts, and individual differences shape behavior across variable environments, thereby making the underlying developmental and functional mechanisms amenable to genetic dissection." However, presumably the various behavioral features (and their variability) are governed by different brain regions, so some metrics (high ICC) would be amenable to the genetic dissection of individuality/variability, while others (low ICC) would not. It would be useful to know which are which, to define which behavioral domains express individuality, and could be targets for genetic analysis, and which do not. At the very least, the Abstract might like to acknowledge that inter-context consistency is not a major property of all or most behavioral metrics.

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful comment and agree that not all behavioral traits exhibit the same degree of inter-context consistency. We have clarified this point in the revised Abstract and ensured that it is also reflected in the main text. The Abstract now reads: 

      “We find that individuality is highly context-dependent, but even under the most extreme environmental alterations tested, consistency of behavioral individuality always persisted in at least one of the traits. Furthermore, our quantification reveals a hierarchical order of environmental features influencing individuality. We confirmed this hierarchy using a generalized linear model and a hierarchical linear mixed model. In summary, our work demonstrates that, similar to humans, fly individuality persists across different contexts (albeit worse than across time), and individual differences shape behavior across variable environments. The presence of consistency across situations in flies makes the underlying developmental and functional mechanisms amenable to genetic dissection.” 

      This revision clarifies that individuality is not uniformly expressed across all behavioral metrics, but rather in a subset of traits with higher repeatability, which are the most promising targets for future genetic analyses.

      I hold that inter-trial repeatability should rightly be called "stability" while inter-context repeatability should be called "consistency". In the current manuscript, "consistency" is used throughout the manuscript, except for the new edits, which use "stability". If the authors are going to use both terms, it would be preferable if they could explain precisely how they define and use these terms.

      We thank the reviewer for drawing attention to this inconsistency in terminology. We apologize for the oversight and have corrected it throughout the manuscript to ensure uniform usage.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors repeated measured the behavior of individual flies across several environmental situations in custom-made behavioral phenotyping rigs.

      Strengths:

      The study uses several different behavioral phenotyping devices to quantify individual behavior in a number of different situations and over time. It seems to be a very impressive amount of data. The authors also make all their behavioral phenotyping rig design and tracking software available, which I think is great and I'm sure other folks will be interested in using and adapting to their own needs.

      Weaknesses/Limitations: 

      I think an important limitation is that while the authors measured the flies under different environmental scenarios (i.e. with different lighting, temperature) they didn't really alter the "context" of the environment. At least within behavioral ecology, context would refer to the potential functionality of the expressed behaviors so for example, an anti-predator context, or a mating context, or foraging. Here, the authors seem to really just be measuring aspects of locomotion under benign (relatively low risk perception) contexts. This is not a flaw of the study, but rather a limitation to how strongly the authors can really say that this demonstrates that individuality is generalized across many different contexts. It's quite possible that rank-order of locomotor (or other) behaviors may shift when the flies are in a mating or risky context. 

      I think the authors are missing an opportunity to use much more robust statistical methods. It appears as though the authors used pearson correlations across time/situations to estimate individual variation; however far more sophisticated and elegant methods exist. The problem is that pearson correlation coefficients can be anticonservative and additionally, the authors have thus had to perform many many tests to correlate behaviors across the different trials/scenarios. I don't see any evidence that the authors are controlling for multiple testing which I think would also help. Alternatively, though, the paper would be a lot stronger, and my guess is, much more streamlined if the authors employ hierarchical mixed models to analyse these data, which are the standard analytical tools in the study of individual behavioral variation. In this way, the authors could partition the behavioral variance into its among- and withinindividual components and quantify repeatability of different behaviors across trials/scenarios simultaneously. This would remove the need to estimate 3 different correlations for day 1 & day 2, day 1 & 3, day 2 & 3 (or stripe 0 & stripe 1, etc) and instead just report a single repeatability for e.g. the time spent walking among the different strip patterns (eg. figure 3). Additionally, the authors could then use multivariate models where the response variables are all the behaviors combined and the authors could estimate the among-individual covariance in these behaviors. I see that the authors state they include generalized linear mixed models in their updated MS, but I struggled a bit to understand exactly how these models were fit? What exactly was the response? what exactly were the predictors (I just don't understand what Line404 means "a GLM was trained using the environmental parameters as predictors (0 when the parameter was not change, 1 if it was) and the resulting individual rank differences as the response"). So were different models run for each scenario? for different behaviors? Across scenarios? what exactly? I just harp on this because I'm actually really interested in these data and think that updating these methods can really help clarify the results and make the main messages much clearer!

      I appreciate that the authors now included their sample sizes in the main body of text (as opposed to the supplement) but I think that it would still help if the authors included a brief overview of their design at the start of the methods. It is still unclear to me how many rigs each individual fly was run through? Were the same individuals measured in multiple different rigs/scenarios? Or just one?

      I really think a variance partitioning modeling framework could certainly improve their statistical inference and likely highlight some other cool patterns as these methods could better estimate stability and covariance in individual intercepts (and potentially slopes) across time and situation. I also genuinely think that this will improve the impact and reach of this paper as they'll be using methods that are standard in the study of individual behavioral variation

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors): 

      I am delighted to see the authors have included hierarchical models in their analysis. I really think this strengthens the paper and their conclusions while simultaneously making it more accessible to folks that typically use these types of methods to investigate these patterns of individual behavior. It's also cool, and completely jives with my own experience measuring individual behavior in that the activity metrics show the highest repeatability compared to the more flexible behaviors (such as "exploration"). I think it's quite striking and interesting to see such moderate repeatability estimates in these behaviors across what could be very different environmental scenarios. I think this is a very strong and meaty paper with a lot of information to digest producinghowever a very elegant and convincing take-home message: individuals are unique in their behavior even across very different environments.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for the positive and encouraging feedback, as well as for their valuable input throughout the review process. We are very pleased that the inclusion of hierarchical models and the resulting interpretations resonated with the reviewer’s own experience and perspective.

    1. Author response:

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Our goal was to propose a possible computational mechanism underlying information integration in the claustrum, not to claim structural or causal equivalence between the model and the biological circuit. We acknowledge that some expressions in the original manuscript may have been interpreted as exceeding this intention, and we will revise the text to explicitly soften such statements.

      It is well established that behavior-trained RNNs can admit multiple internal solutions capable of producing the same behavioral output, and we fully agree with this point. Among the many possible solutions, we focused on networks that exhibited dynamical properties consistent with independently obtained behavioral and physiological findings. Thus, in our view, biological plausibility in this study is not grounded in structural isomorphism, but rather in whether the core population-level dynamical properties observed in the model are reproducible in actual claustral population activity.

      We also agree with the reviewer that our original qualitative comparison of GPFA-based latent trajectories did not provide sufficient quantitative support. In the revised manuscript, we have therefore added an eigenvalue-based quantitative analysis of the dimensional structure of population trajectories. This analysis does not depend on the identity of the dimensionality-reduction method itself, but instead focuses on quantifying the geometric structure of population-state trajectories as they evolve over time. Applying the same metric to both the RNN and biological claustrum data revealed consistent condition-specific differences in population dynamics.

      This quantitative addition strengthens the previous qualitative trajectory comparison and clarifies that the model implements a specific computational dynamical regime that directionally corresponds to claustral population activity. While this does not imply uniqueness of the model, we believe it suggests that the proposed computational principle represents a biologically realizable candidate mechanism.

      (1) Tone of model-data correspondence

      Numerous statements describe the RNN as "closely mimicking," "recapitulating," or being "nearly identical" to claustral neural dynamics, sometimes extending to claims about causal relationships between neural activity and behavior. Given that neural data were not used to train the model, and that only a small subset of trained networks showed the reported dynamics, these statements should be substantially softened throughout the manuscript. The RNN should be framed as providing one possible computational realization consistent with existing data, not as a close instantiation of the biological circuit.

      We agree with the reviewer’s concern. Expressions such as “closely mimicked,” “nearly identical,” and “recapitulate” will be replaced with more moderate language.

      (2) Non-uniqueness of RNN solutions

      The fact that only a small fraction of trained networks exhibited "claustrum-like" clusters deserves deeper discussion. This observation raises the possibility that the identified solution is fragile or highly specific rather than canonical. The authors should explicitly discuss the non-uniqueness of internal solutions in behavior-trained RNNs, including the range of alternative network dynamics that can reproduce the same behavior. In particular, it should be clarified why the specific network exhibiting "claustrum-like" clusters is informative about claustral computation, rather than representing one arbitrary solution among many.

      As the reviewer noted, behavior-trained RNNs can yield multiple internal solutions that generate the same behavioral output, and we acknowledge this non-uniqueness. However, we do not interpret the relatively low success rate (5/100 networks) as evidence of fragility. Rather, we interpret it as suggesting that the emergence of this particular dynamical regime requires stringent structural constraints.

      The computational demands of the task—specifically, the integration of temporally separated signals—drive convergence toward networks capable of sustaining persistent activity through recurrent excitatory connectivity. Indeed, all networks exhibiting a claustrum-like cluster shared a strong recurrent excitatory structure within Cluster 1, a structural feature consistent with our slice electrophysiology findings.

      Our criterion for selecting RNNs was their ability to reproduce behavioral and physiological observations from the delayed escape experiment. Excluded RNNs may reflect alternative information-processing strategies characteristic of other brain regions or artificial logical solutions. Importantly, claustrum-like dynamics were not explicitly enforced during training; they emerged spontaneously under behavioral constraints, suggesting that this solution is not arbitrary.

      Furthermore, the computational principles derived from the RNN were quantitatively consistent with in vivo single-neuron activity. Using an eigenvalue-based metric (λ<sub>3</sub>/Σλ), both the RNN and biological claustrum data showed effects in the same direction. Leave-one-neuron-out analyses further demonstrated that this pattern was broadly distributed across neurons in the claustrum. These convergent results suggest that the identified network captures a computational regime that is consistent with claustral population dynamics, rather than representing an arbitrary solution unrelated to the biological observations.

      (3) GPFA trajectory comparisons

      The qualitative similarity between RNN trajectories and GPFA-derived trajectories from sparse in vivo data is interesting but insufficient to support claims of robustness or population-level structure. Statements suggesting that these patterns are unlikely to arise from noise or random fluctuations are not justified, given the single-trial, pseudo-population nature of the data. Either additional quantitative controls should be added, or the interpretation should be substantially tempered.

      We agree that the original GPFA trajectory comparison in the biological claustrum data remained qualitative and did not sufficiently establish robustness or population-level structure. We have therefore added quantitative analyses in the revised manuscript.

      Before presenting these analyses, we clarify methodological limitations inherent in pseudopopulation and single-trial data. GPFA estimates latent trajectories based on covariance structure and temporal smoothness assumptions. In pseudopopulations, true simultaneously recorded covariance cannot be fully reconstructed. Although our dataset is based on single trials rather than trial-to-trial variability, we acknowledge that latent-space estimation depends on covariance structure.

      Therefore, the additional quantitative metric is not independent of the GPFA estimation stage; rather, it evaluates the geometric structure of single-trial latent trajectories estimated by GPFA.

      Specifically, for biological data, we reanalyzed GPFA-estimated latent trajectories in PCA space and computed an eigenvalue-based metric (λ<sub>3</sub>/Σλ). Across 20 time bins, a sliding window of 10 bins was applied. For each window, we computed the covariance matrix and extracted eigenvalues for PC1, PC2, and PC3. The third eigenvalue (λ<sub>3</sub>) was normalized by total variance (Σλ = λ<sub>1</sub> + λ<sub>2</sub> + λ<sub>3</sub>). This metric quantifies the extent to which trajectories deviate from a planar (two-dimensional) structure into a third dimension. An increase in λ<sub>3</sub>/Σλ indicates the formation of a higher-dimensional geometric structure.

      For RNN data, since all unit activities were simultaneously observed and sufficient trials were available, we directly applied PCA to population activity without GPFA. Mean trajectories across trials were computed, and the same λ<sub>3</sub>/Σλ metric was applied. Although the initial dimensionality-reduction steps differ, the final metric definition and computation are identical. Thus, the comparison focuses on geometric dimensional structure rather than the dimensionality-reduction method itself.

      Importantly, within the biological dataset, GPFA estimation, preprocessing, pseudopopulation construction, subsampling strategy, temporal alignment, and smoothing were applied identically across the CS and Neutral conditions. Under this common analysis framework, λ<sub>3</sub>/Σλ values were consistently higher in the CS condition than in the Neutral condition.

      For the RNN data, an identical analysis pipeline was applied across the CS+Open and Open-only conditions. In this case as well, λ<sub>3</sub>/Σλ values were significantly higher in the CS+Open condition than in the Open-only condition.

      If structural bias arose from covariance estimation or dimensionality reduction, it would be expected to affect conditions similarly within each dataset. The observation that λ<sub>3</sub>/Σλ increases selectively in the CS condition in biological data and in the CS+Open condition in the RNN therefore supports the interpretation that the effect reflects a condition-specific dynamical difference rather than an artifact of dimensionality reduction.

      To further examine whether the effect was driven by a small subset of neurons, we performed leave-one-neuron-out analyses in the biological dataset. In the CS group, most neurons contributed relatively evenly to the metric, whereas such distributed contribution was not observed in the Neutral group. This suggests that the three-dimensional structure reflects an organized population-level phenomenon rather than covariance dominated by a small number of outlier neurons.

      These results indicate that the consistent elevation of λ<sub>3</sub>/Σλ in the CS condition (biological data) and in the CS+Open condition (RNN) reflects a genuine dynamical feature rather than an artifact arising from pseudopopulation construction or dimensionality reduction.

      Taken together, the three-dimensional geometric structure observed in GPFA-based latent trajectories is unlikely to reflect random noise. The replication of the same quantitative metric in the RNN, using an independent dimensionality-reduction procedure, strengthens the correspondence between the two systems. We appreciate the reviewer’s suggestion for quantitative reinforcement, which has substantially strengthened the manuscript.

      (4) Scope of functional claims

      The discussion connecting the findings to broad theories of claustral function, global workspace, or consciousness extends well beyond the data presented. These speculative links should be clearly labeled as such and significantly reduced in strength and prominence.

      We agree with the reviewer and will clearly indicate that references to broader theoretical interpretations are speculative. We will substantially reduce their strength and emphasis.

      (5) Comment on Conceptual Interpretation of the Behavioral Paradigm:

      The manuscript repeatedly describes the delayed escape task as an "inference-based behavioral paradigm" and states that animals "infer that a value-neutral alternative space is likely to be safer" when the CS is presented in a novel environment. While I appreciate that the US-CS association was established in a different context and that the CS is then presented in a new environment, I am not convinced that the current behavioral evidence uniquely supports an inference interpretation.

      We agree with the reviewer’s concern. We will describe the delayed escape task as “a behavioral paradigm that requires integration of temporally separated task-relevant signals” and remove inference-related terminology throughout the manuscript.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      We appreciate the reviewer’s constructive and well-balanced comments. We regret that some of our wording and the scope of our introduction and discussion may not have appropriately reflected the contributions of prior studies. We will revise the manuscript accordingly to ensure that previous literature is more accurately and fairly acknowledged. In addition, we will reorganize the figures to more clearly present the hypotheses being tested and will provide additional details regarding both the modeling framework and the experimental procedures.

      (1) This paper is based on behavioral results and neural recordings from their prior paper (Han et al.), but data, e.g., in Figure 1, are not clearly identified as new or as coming from that source. Figure 1A, for example, appears to be taken directly from Han et al. No methods are given in this manuscript for the behavioral testing or the in vivo electrophysiology.

      We will clarify more explicitly which data and methods originate from Han et al. (2024). In the original manuscript, Figure 1 panels A, D, E, F, and L (left) were indicated in the legend as originating from Han et al. (2024). We will further clarify this distinction in the main text. Additionally, we will briefly describe the behavioral experiments and in vivo electrophysiology performed in Han et al. in the Methods section, with appropriate citation.

      (2) Many other details are unclear. Examples include model training, the weight matrices and how these changed with training (p. 13), equations 2 and 3 (p. 13), the sources for the constants in the equations (p. 14), the methods (anesthesia, stereotaxic coordinates, injection specifics and details for "sparse expression") for the ChrimsonR injections.

      As requested, we will provide additional details regarding model training procedures, weight matrices and their evolution during training, equations (2) and (3), the origin of constants used in the equations, and detailed methods for ChrimsonR injection (anesthesia, stereotaxic coordinates, injection parameters, and clarification of “sparse expression”).

      (3) The explorations of model behavior are a catalog of everything tried rather than an organized demonstration of what the model can and cannot do. The figures could be reduced in number to emphasize the key comparisons of the different clusters and the model's behavior under different conditions, intended to "test" the model.

      We will reorganize the figures to emphasize core results and clarify that the primary goal is to test and validate the computational model.

      (4) On page 6, the E-E connectivity is argued from Shelton et al. (2025) and against Kim et al. (2016), but ignores Orman (2015), which, to this reviewer's knowledge, was the first to demonstrate such connectivity, including the long-duration events and impact of planes of section.

      We will cite Orman (2015) as suggested and note that persistent activity has been observed in slices cut at specific angles, consistent with our findings.

      (5) Whereas the authors are entitled to their own opinion of prior work (references 3-8), it is inappropriate to misrepresent prior work as only demonstrating a "limited function" of claustum. Additional papers by Mathur's group and Citri's group are ignored.

      We will remove wording implying “limited” prior work and appropriately acknowledge contributions from the Mathur and Citri groups.

      In summary, the authors have made a computational model that recapitulates the firing of a subset of potentially claustral neurons during a particular behavioral task (delayed escape is certainly not the only behavior that involves claustrum - see e.g., attention, salience, sleep). If the conclusion is that excitatory claustral cells must be connected to other excitatory claustral cells, such a conclusion is not new, and the electrophysiological E-E metrics are not well quantified (e.g., connectivity frequency, strength of connection). If the model is intended to predict how the claustrum might accomplish any other task, there is insufficient detail to evaluate the model beyond the evidence that the model creates a subset of cells that can sustain firing during the delay period in the delayed escape task.

      Across all whole-cell recordings, optogenetic responses were observed in 38 out of 43 patched cells (~90%), suggesting that a high proportion of claustral neurons receive intra-claustral excitatory input. However, precise connectivity frequency and strength cannot be determined from the current dataset.

      As the reviewer noted, our RNN is specialized for the delayed escape task, and we do not claim direct generalization to other proposed claustral functions such as attention, salience, or sleep. The goal of this study is to computationally characterize the temporal integration mechanism observed in this specific task.

      While our model is specific to the delayed escape task, the computational principle identified here—nonlinear trajectory-based temporal integration supported by recurrent excitatory connectivity—may represent a more general mechanism for integrating temporally separated signals. However, testing such generality lies beyond the scope of the present study and will be framed as a future direction in the revised Discussion.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The electrocardiogram (ECG) is routinely used to diagnose and assess cardiovascular risk. However, its interpretation can be complicated by sex-based and anatomical variations in heart and torso structure. To quantify these relationships, Dr. Smith and colleagues developed computational tools to automatically reconstruct 3D heart and torso anatomies from UK Biobank data. Their regression analysis identified key sex differences in anatomical parameters and their associations with ECG features, particularly post-myocardial infarction (MI). This work provides valuable quantitative insights into how sex and anatomy influence ECG metrics, potentially improving future ECG interpretation protocols by accounting for these factors.

      Strengths:

      (1) The study introduces an automated pipeline to reconstruct heart and torso anatomies from a large cohort (1,476 subjects, including healthy and post-MI individuals).

      (2) The 3-stage reconstruction achieved high accuracy (validated via Dice coefficient and error distances).

      (3) Extracted anatomical features enabled novel analyses of disease-dependent relationships between sex, anatomy, and ECG metrics.

      (4) Open-source code for the pipeline and analyses enhances reproducibility.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The linear regression approach, while useful, may not fully address collinearity among parameters (e.g., cardiac size, torso volume, heart position). Although left ventricular mass or cavity volume was selected to mitigate collinearity, other parameters (e.g., heart center coordinates) could still introduce bias.

      (2) The study attributes residual ECG differences to sex/MI status after controlling for anatomical variables. However, regression model errors could distort these estimates. A rigorous evaluation of potential deviations (e.g., variance inflation factors or alternative methods like ridge regression) would strengthen the conclusions.

      (3) The manuscript's highly quantitative presentation may hinder readability. Simplifying technical descriptions and improving figure clarity (e.g., separating superimposed bar plots in Figures 2-4) would aid comprehension.

      (4) Given established sex differences in QTc intervals, applying the same analytical framework to explore QTc's dependence on sex and anatomy could have provided additional clinically relevant insights.

      We thank Reviewer 1 for their kind and constructive comments. While we have thoroughly addressed all specific recommendations below, in brief, we have added new analysis of the variance inflation factor in Supplementary Tables 2 and 3 to reassure readers that the chosen parameter sets exhibit low levels of collinearity, and provided more explanation for why the relative positional parameters were chosen to avoid this issue. We have added explanatory figures for all positional and orientational parameters to improve understanding of the technical details, and improved clarity of existing figures as detailed below. We welcome the suggestion to add QT interval to the manuscript – whilst this was only available in the UK Biobank for a single lead, we have included an analysis of both QT and QTc intervals in this lead to Page 10, and added some discussion of this to the second full paragraph of Page 14.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Comment 1: “Collinearity and Regression Analysis: It would be valuable to assess the collinearity among the regressed parameters (e.g., cardiac size, torso volume, heart center positions [x, y, z], and cardiac orientation angles) and evaluate whether alternative regression methods (e.g., ridge regression) might improve robustness. Additionally, cardiac digital twinning with electrophysiological models could help isolate the exact contribution of electrophysiology while enabling sensitivity analysis. Nonlinear regression or machine learning approaches might also enhance the predictive power of the analysis.”

      We thank the reviewer for drawing attention to the important issue of collinearity in the parameter sets used in the regression analysis. To address this, we have added Supplementary Tables 2 and 3, which detail the variance inflation factors for each of the parameter sets used. This was considered in the selection of anatomical parameters – e.g. using relative position not absolute distances between landmarks, which would be more collinear. As these are all below a value of 3.4, we believe that the effect of collinearity is limited, and thus to reduce subjectivity of parameter selection in more complex methods, and encourage interpretability, we have retained our linear regression analysis. In addition, we have added an explanation to the second full paragraph on Page 6 of how we calculated the relative, rather than absolute position of the cardiac centre partially to avoid the problem of collinearity when using multiple absolute distances. We concur that modelling and simulation techniques are well suited to explore the electrophysiological component further – as this is out of the scope of this work, we have addressed the role of these methods in future work in the final paragraph of Page 16.

      Comment 2: “Figure Clarity (Bar Plots): The superimposed bar plots in Figures 2-4 are difficult to interpret; separating the bars for each coefficient would improve readability.”

      We accept that the stacked bar plots could be improved in their clarity. Whilst plotting each anatomical parameter separately multiplies the number of plots by a factor of nine, and makes comparison between parameters more difficult, we have added clear horizontal grid lines in order to make values easier to read and interpret.

      Comment 3: “Feature Extraction Visualization: A schematic figure illustrating the steps for measuring heart positional parameters (e.g., with example annotations) would help readers better understand the feature extraction methodology.”

      We agree with the reviewer that the calculation of positional and orientational parameters is crucial to illustrate clearly. We have included additional Supplementary Figures 2 and 3 to better convey these parameters.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Missed diagnosis of myocardial ischemia (MI) is more common in women, and treatment is typically less aggressive. This diagnosis stems from the fact that women's ECGs commonly exhibit 12 lead ECG biomarkers that are less likely to fall within the traditional diagnostic criteria. Namely, women have shorter QRS durations and lower ST junction and T wave amplitudes, but longer QT intervals, than men. To study the impact, this study aims to quantify sex differences in heart-torso anatomy and ECG biomarkers, as well as their relative associations, in both pre- and post-MI populations. A novel computational pipeline was constructed to generate torso-ventricular geometries from cardiac magnetic resonance imaging. The pipeline was used to build models for 425 post-myocardial infarction subjects and 1051 healthy controls from UK Biobank clinical images to generate the population.

      Strengths:

      This study has a strength in that it utilizes a large patient population from the UK Biobank (425 postMI and 1051 healthy controls) to analyze sex-based differences. The computational pipeline is stateof-the-art for constructing torso-ventricular geometries from cardiac MR and is clinically viable. It draws on novel machine learning techniques for segmentation, contour extraction, and shape modeling. This pipeline is publicly available and can help in the large-scale generation of anatomies for other studies. This allows computation of various anatomical factors (torso volume, cavity volume, etc), and subsequent regression analysis on how these factors are altered before and after MI from the 12-lead ECG.

      Weaknesses:

      Major weaknesses stem from the fact that, while electrophysiological factors appear to play a role across many leads, both post-MI and healthy, the electrophysiological factors are not stated or discussed. The computational modeling pipeline is validated for reconstructing torso contours; however, potential registration errors stemming from ventricular-torso construction are not addressed within the context of anatomical factors, such as the tilt and rotation of the heart. This should be discussed as the paper's claims are based on these results. Further analysis and explanation are needed to understand how these sex-specific results impact the ECG-based diagnosis of MI in men and women, as stated as the primary reason for the study at the beginning of the paper. This would provide a broader impact within the clinical community. Claims about demographics do not appear to be supported within the main manuscript but are provided in the supplements. Reformatting the paper's structure is required to efficiently and effectively present and support the findings and outcomes of this work.

      We thank Reviewer 2 for their considered and detailed feedback. We greatly appreciate the invitation to elaborate on the electrophysiological factors, and we have added discussion of this matter to the second and third full paragraphs on Page 14, extending to Page 15 and first full paragraph on Page 15, and highlighted the role of modelling and simulation in future work on the third full paragraph of Page 16. We agree that registration errors are one reason behind remaining reconstruction errors and feel a strength of our study is that the large number of subjects used aided in reducing the effect of this noise, and have updated the second full paragraph of Page 16 to reflect this. We are wary of moving too many supplemental figures and tables describing demographic trends to the main manuscript for fear of diluting the specific answers to our research questions. We have however actioned the suggestions as detailed below to reformat the paper, including redressing the balance of supplemental versus main methodological sections, and thank the reviewer for their guidance in increasing our clarity.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Please detail what "chosen to be representative of the underlying dataset" means in terms of a validation dataset.

      We thank the reviewer for addressing the lack of clarity in this matter. We have added a reference in the third full paragraph on Page 6 to Supplementary Appendix 1.1, where we have included full details of the selection criteria.

      (2) “Current guidelines ... further research [16]." The paragraph should begin with a broader statement that is relevant to the fact that the entire body of work focuses on ECG-based diagnosis differences in women, rather than LVEF through echocardiography.

      We have revised the introduction to Paragraph 3 on Page 3 to clarify our motivation for focusing on the ECG in order to shape proposals for novel ECG-based risk stratification tools.

      (3) The last paragraph of the introduction should more clearly state what was performed and how you aim to prove your hypothesis. There is no mention of the data, the regression model, or other key aspects important to the reader.

      We have added methodological details to Paragraph 5 on Page 3 in order to clarify our approach in testing our hypothesis.

      (4) An overview paragraph should be included in the Methods at the beginning.

      We thank the reviewer for this valuable suggestion – we have added an overview paragraph to the start of the methodology section on Page 5.

      (5) The computational pipeline portion of the methods should be written in full paragraphs instead of almost a bulleted list. In general, more details from the supplement should be provided in the methods.

      We thank the reviewer for raising important points concerning the balance of methodological description in the main manuscript and the supplementary materials. We have added detailed description of the reconstruction pipeline to Pages 5 and 6. We feel that the ordered format of the methods section adds to the reproducibility and transparency of our methodology.

      (6) The torso reconstruction method was already validated in Smith et al. [29]. What value does your additional validation bring to this methodology? Furthermore, how does the construction of the ventricular-torso reconstructions using the cardiac axes (not just the torso contours) influence ECG metrics?

      We apologise that this was not clear – we have clarified in Paragraph 4 on Page 5 that while Smith et al. 2022 provided a detailed validation to the contour extraction networks, it did not validate the torso reconstruction pipeline, as it only presents the reconstruction of two cases as a proof of concept. We have also expanded the second full paragraph on Page 6 to explain that the sparse (but not dense) cardiac anatomies were constructed in order to calculate the cardiac size, which we found was a key factor moderating many ECG biomarkers. We also specified that the cardiac position and orientation were necessary in order to relate these to the torso axes and positions of the ECG electrodes.

      (7) Include the details of the regression analysis in the main body of the methods for the readers. This is crucial to the claims and outcomes of the paper. Only a sentence is included in the results and one in the figure: "Each factor's contribution is calculated from the product of the regression coefficients and anatomical sex differences (Supplementary Appendix 1.5)." What specific contributions can I expect to see in the results figures? The results are filled with methodological aspects that should be in the results.

      We thank the reviewer again for this important comment regarding the balance of the main text methodology and supplementary methodology sections. We have added detail to the statistical analysis section of the main text on Pages 7 and 8 in order for the reader to understand the following results section without consulting the supplemental methods. We have also removed these details from the results section.

      (8) What is "the remaining estimated effect of electrophysiology". Did you do simulations on the electrophysiology, or how is this computed from the clinical data of patients? More explanation is needed, as without this, the paper is just focusing on anatomy.

      We have clarified this important point by moving the explanation of the methodology underpinning our estimation of the electrophysiological contributions using the clinical ECGs from the supplementary methods to the main manuscript on the second full paragraph on Page 7, and continuing to Page 8. We have also specified the role of simulations studies in future work on the final paragraph on Page 16.

      (9) Include an overview paragraph of the methods to create more structure.

      We thank the reviewer again for the further attention to this issue – as previously, we have added an overview paragraph to the methodology section on Page 5.

      (10) Only 19.8% of the patients were female, which is probably due to females having a more severe presentation of the disease. How does this impact, bias, or skew your results?

      This comment raises a very interesting point, and while the origin of this imbalance is of course multifactorial – women likely do have lower rates of MI events due to the cardioprotective role of estrogen and different health promoting behaviours, and our sex imbalance was reflective of wider trends in MI diagnosis. However, as mentioned in Paragraph 2 Page 3 of the text, there are more missed MI diagnoses in women, and we agree that this may lead to a more severe presentation of female MI pathophysiology. We have expanded the first full paragraph on Page 16 to specify the ECG and demographic impacts that this has on our results, and that it is a strength of this work that we may contribute to future adjustment of the diagnostic criteria, such that future investigations do not have this bias, and that clinical outcomes are improved.

      (11) A lot of extra information is provided in Tables 1 and 2. Include additional information in the supplements that is not directly relevant to your findings.

      We agree that Table 2 is supplementary, rather than critical information, and have moved it accordingly to the Supplementary Materials on Page 38. We do believe that Table 1 is central for understanding the extracted dataset.

      (12) Combine paragraphs 3 and 4 into a single paragraph. "Current guidelines..." and "T wave amplitude...". They are part of a single coherent concept.

      We have removed the paragraph break on Page 3 Paragraph 3.

      (13) Check all acronyms throughout the paper. The abbreviation for sudden cardiac death (SCD) is only used once in the same paragraph. Remove the acronym and type it out. T-wave amplitude (TWA) is introduced twice in a Figure caption and not introduced until the methods.

      Many thanks for this suggestion – we have reviewed all acronyms in the manuscript.

      (14) "Figure 1B showcases the capability of the computational pipeline to extract torso contours and reconstruct them into 3D meshes". Isn't this Figure 1A?

      We apologise that this was unclear, and have updated the sentence on the first full paragraph of Page 8 to clarify the purpose of Figure 1B.

      (15) No need to state: "Female y-axis limits have been adjusted by the difference in healthy QRS duration between sexes for ease of comparison" in the Figure 2 caption.

      We have removed this statement on all relevant captions.

      (16) The paragraph "For lead V6, 15.9% of healthy subjects..." can be combined with the previous section.

      We have removed this paragraph break on Page 9 to improve readability.

      (17) The only demographics I could find were age and BMI. State which demographics you used explicitly. This is especially true when the discussion makes claims like "Our findings suggest that corrected QRS duration taking into consideration demographics...". How did you take them into account?

      We accept that our previous description of the demographic adjustment to QRS duration in the discussion did not adequately reflect the comprehensiveness of our approach, and have adjusted the second paragraph on Page 14 to rectify this.

      (18) The results section is also almost a bulleted list that should be written and reformatted into paragraphs.

      The ordered style of our results section was designed to compare how our obtained data answers our research question differently for ECG intervals, amplitudes, and axis angles. Whilst we have adjusted paragraph breaks and moved methodological details to more appropriate sections, we have retained this stylistic choice.

      (19) The following sentence should be in the introduction: "Alterations to the polarity and amplitude of the T wave are used in the diagnosis of acute MI [42] and TWA affects proposed risk stratification tools, particularly markers of repolarization abnormalities [9, 43]."

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. We have included the discussion of how TWA is separately used in proposed risk stratification and current diagnostic tools in Paragraph 3 of Page 3.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this study, the authors trained rats on a "figure 8" go/no-go odor discrimination task. Six odor cues (3 rewarded and 3 non-rewarded) were presented in a fixed temporal order and arranged into two alternating sequences that partially overlap (Sequence #1: 5<sup>+</sup>-0<sup>-</sup>-1<sup>-</sup>-2<sup>+</sup>; Sequence #2: 3<sup>+</sup>-0<sup>-</sup>-1<sup>-</sup>-4<sup>+</sup>) - forming an abstract figure-8 structure of looping odor cues.

      This task is particularly well-suited for probing representations of hidden states, defined here as the animal's position within the task structure beyond superficial sensory features. Although the task can be solved without explicit sequence tracking, it affords the opportunity to generalize across functionally equivalent trials (or "positions") in different sequences, allowing the authors to examine how OFC representations collapse across latent task structure.

      Rats were first trained to criterion on the task and then underwent 15 days of self-administration of either intravenous cocaine (3 h/day) or sucrose. Following self-administration, electrodes were implanted in lateral OFC, and single-unit activity was recorded while rats performed the figure-8 task.

      Across a series of complementary analyses, the authors report several notable findings. In control animals, lOFC neurons exhibit representational compression across corresponding positions in the two sequences. This compression is observed not only in trial/positions involving overlapping odor (e.g., Position 3 = odor 1 in sequence 1 vs sequence 2), but also in trials/positions involving distinct, sequence-specific odors (e.g., Position 4: odor 2 vs odor 4) - indicating generalization across functionally equivalent task states. Ensemble decoding confirms that sequence identity is weakly decodable at these positions, consistent with the idea that OFC representations collapse incidental differences in sensory information into a common latent or hidden state representation. In contrast, cocaine-experienced rats show persistently stronger differentiation between sequences, including at overlapping odor positions.

      Strengths:

      Elegant behavioral design that affords the detection of hidden-state representations.

      Sophisticated and complementary analytical approaches (single-unit activity, population decoding, and tensor component analysis).

      Weaknesses:

      The number of subjects is small - can't fully rule out idiosyncratic, animal-specific effects.

      Comments

      (1) Emergence of sequence-dependent OFC representations across learning.

      A conceptual point that would benefit from further discussion concerns the emergence of sequence-dependent OFC activity at overlapping positions (e.g., position P3, odor 1). This implies knowledge of the broader task structure. Such representations are presumably absent early in learning, before rats have learned the sequence structure. While recordings were conducted only after rats were well trained, it would be informative if the authors could comment on how they envision these representations developing over learning. For example, does sequence differentiation initially emerge as animals learn the overall task structure, followed by progressive compression once animals learn that certain states are functionally equivalent? Clarifying this learning-stage interpretation would strengthen the theoretical framing of the results.

      We agree that the emergence of sequence-dependent OFC activity at overlapping positions (e.g., P3) implies knowledge of the broader task structure and therefore must depend on learning. Although we did not record during early acquisition in the current study, we can outline a learning-stage framework consistent with both prior work and the comparative analyses included here and include it in the discussion.

      We think the development of OFC representations is a multi-stage process. Early in learning, before animals have acquired the sequential structure of the task, OFC activity is likely dominated by local sensory features and immediate reinforcement history, with little differentiation between sequences at overlapping positions. As animals learn that odors are embedded within extended sequences that have utility for predicting future outcomes, OFC representations would begin to differentiate identical sensory cues based on their sequence context, giving rise to sequence-dependent activity at positions such as P3. This stage reflects acquisition of the broader task structure and the recognition that current cues carry information about future states.

      With continued training, however, OFC representations normally undergo a further refinement: positions that differ in sensory identity but are functionally equivalent become compressed, while distinctions that are irrelevant for guiding behavior are suppressed. Evidence for this later stage comes from our over-trained control animals, in which discrimination between overlapping positions is near chance across most trial epochs, and from prior work using the same task in less-trained animals, where sequence-dependent discrimination is more strongly preserved. Thus, sequence differentiation appears to emerge during structure learning but is subsequently down weighted as animals learn which distinctions are behaviorally irrelevant.

      Within this framework, prior cocaine exposure appears to interfere specifically with this later refinement stage. Cocaine-experienced rats exhibit OFC representations resembling those seen earlier in learning—retaining sequence-dependent discrimination at overlapping and functionally equivalent positions—despite extensive training. This suggests not a failure to acquire task structure per se, but rather an impairment in the ability to collapse across states that share common underlying causes.

      (2) Reference to the 24-odor position task

      The reference to the previously published 24-odor position task is not well integrated into the current manuscript. Given that this task has already been published and is not central to the main analyses presented here, the authors may wish to a) better motivate its relevance to the current study or b) consider removing this supplemental figure entirely to maintain focus.

      Thanks for your suggestion, we have removed this supplemental figure as suggested.

      (3) Missing behavioral comparison

      Line 117: the authors state that absolute differences between sequences differ between cocaine and sucrose groups across all three behavioral measures. However, Figure 1 includes only two corresponding comparisons (Fig. 1I-J). Please add the third measure (% correct) to Figure 1, and arrange these panels in an order consistent with Figure 1F-H (% correct, reaction time, poke latency).

      Thanks for your suggestion, we have included the related figure as suggested.

      (4) Description of the TCA component

      Line 220: authors wrote that the first TCA component exhibits low amplitude at positions P1 and P4 and high amplitude at positions P2 and P3. However, Figure 3 appears to show the opposite pattern (higher magnitude at P1 and P4 and lower magnitude at P2 and P3). Please check and clarify this apparent discrepancy. Alternatively, a clearer explanation of how to interpret the temporal dynamics and scaling of this component in the figure would help readers correctly understand the result.

      Thanks for your suggestion. We appreciate this point and agree that clearer guidance on how to interpret the temporal and scaling properties of the tensor components would help readers. In the TCA framework, each component is defined by three separable factors: a neuron factor, a temporal factor, and a trial (position) factor. The temporal factor reflects the shape of the activity pattern within a trial, indicating when during the trial that component is expressed, whereas the trial factor reflects how strongly that temporal pattern is expressed at each position and across trials.

      Importantly, the absolute scaling of these factors is not independently meaningful. Because TCA components are scale-indeterminate, the magnitude of the temporal factor and the trial factor should be interpreted relative to one another within a component, not across components. Thus, a large value in the trial factor does not imply stronger neural activity per se, but rather greater expression of that component’s characteristic temporal pattern at that position or trial.

      Accordingly, when a component shows similar temporal dynamics across groups but differs in its trial factor structure—as observed here—the interpretation is that the same within-trial dynamics are being differentially recruited across task positions, rather than that the timing of neural responses has changed.

      We have added a brief discussion of this in this section of the results in the manuscript.

      (5) Sucrose control

      Sucrose self-administration is a reasonable control for instrumental experience and reward exposure, but it means that this group also acquired an additional task involving the same reinforcer. This experience may itself influence OFC representations and could contribute to the generalization observed in control animals. A brief discussion of this possibility would help contextualize the interpretation of cocaine-related effects.

      We agree that sucrose self-administration is not a perfect neutral manipulation and that this experience could, in principle, influence OFC representations. In particular, sucrose self-administration involves instrumental responding for the same primary reinforcer used in the odor task, and thus may promote additional learning about reward predictability, action–outcome contingencies, or contextual structure that could facilitate generalization.

      Several considerations, however, suggest that the generalization observed in control animals primarily reflects learning-dependent refinement of task representations rather than a specific consequence of sucrose self-administration per se. First, the amount of sucrose administered during this phase was minimal (50 µl × 60 presses at most per session for 14 sessions) compared with the total sucrose reward obtained during task recording (100 µl × 160 trials per session for several dozen sessions). Second, all rats were extensively trained on the odor sequence task prior to any self-administration, and the key signatures of compression and generalization we report—near-chance discrimination between functionally equivalent positions—are consistent with prior studies using the same task in animals that did not undergo sucrose self-administration. Finally, comparisons to less-trained animals in earlier work show that OFC representations evolve toward greater abstraction with increasing task experience, indicating that generalization is a property of advanced learning rather than a unique outcome of sucrose exposure.

      Importantly, even if sucrose self-administration were to enhance generalization in OFC, this would not account for the primary finding that cocaine-experienced rats fail to show these signatures despite identical task training and parallel instrumental experience. Thus, the critical comparison is not between sucrose-trained animals and naive controls, but between two groups matched for self-administration experience, differing only in the pharmacological consequences of the reinforcer. Within this framework, the absence of position-general representations in cocaine-experienced rats reflects a disruption of normal learning-dependent abstraction rather than an artifact of the control condition.

      We have added a brief discussion acknowledging that sucrose self-administration may bias OFC toward abstraction, while emphasizing that cocaine exposure prevents the emergence or maintenance of these representations under otherwise comparable experiential conditions.

      (6) Acknowledge low N

      The number of rats per group is relatively low. Although the effects appear consistent across animals within each group, this sample size does not fully rule out idiosyncratic, animal-specific effects. This limitation should be explicitly acknowledged in the manuscript.

      We acknowledge that the number of animals per group is relatively small and therefore cannot fully rule out animal-specific effects. However, the key neural and behavioral signatures reported here were consistent across individual animals within each group and across multiple levels of analysis, and no outliers were observed. In addition, sample sizes of this scale are common in cocaine self-administration studies due to their technical and logistical constraints. We did not attempt to obscure this limitation and have now explicitly acknowledged it in the manuscript discussion.

      (7) Figure 3E-F: The task positions here are ordered differently (P1, P4, P2, P3) than elsewhere in the paper. Please reorder them to match the rest of the paper.

      Thank you for pointing this out. We agree that the ordering of task positions in Figures 3E–F should be consistent with the rest of the manuscript. We have reordered the positions to match the standard sequence order used elsewhere in the paper (P1, P2, P3, P4) to improve clarity and avoid confusion.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      In the current study, the authors use an odor-guided sequence learning task described as a "figure 8" task to probe neuronal differences in latent state encoding within the orbitofrontal cortex after cocaine (n = 3) vs sucrose (n = 3) self-administration. The task uses six unique odors which are divided into two sequences that run in series. For both sequences, the 2nd and 3rd odors are the same and predict reward is not available at the reward port. The 1st and 4th odors are unique, and are followed by reward. Animals are well-trained before undergoing electrode implant and catheterization, and then retrained for two weeks prior to recording. The hypothesis under test is that cocaine-experienced animals will be less able to use the latent task structure to perform the task, and instead encode information about each unique sequence that is largely irrelevant. Behaviorally, both cocaine and sucrose-experienced rats show high levels of accuracy on task, with some group differences noted. When comparing reaction times and poke latencies between sequences, more variability was observed in the cocaine-treated group, implying animals treated these sequences somewhat differently. Analyses done at the single unit and ensemble level suggests that cocaine self-administration had increased the encoding of sequence-specific information, but decreased generalization across sequences. For example, the ability to decode odor position and sequence from neuronal firing in cocaine-treated animals was greater than controls. This pattern resembles that observed within the OFC of animals that had fewer training sessions. The authors then conducted tensor component analysis (TCA) to enable a more "hypothesis agnostic" evaluation of their data.

      Overall, the paper is well written and the authors do a good job of explaining quite complicated analyses so that the reader can follow their reasoning. I have the following comments.

      While well-written, the introduction mainly summarises the experimental design and results, rather than providing a summary of relevant literature that informed the experimental design. More details regarding the published effects of cocaine self-administration on OFC firing, and on tests of behavioral flexibility across species, would ground the paper more thoroughly in the literature and explain the need for the current experiment.

      We appreciate this suggestion and have tried to expand the Introduction to more explicitly situate the study within the existing literature on cocaine-induced changes in OFC function. In particular, prior work has shown that cocaine self-administration alters OFC firing properties and disrupts behavioral flexibility across species, including impairments in reversal learning, outcome devaluation, and sensory preconditioning. We have revised the Introduction to expand this literature review and more clearly articulate how these established findings motivated our focus on OFC representations of hidden task structure and generalization.

      For Fig 1F, it is hard to see the magnitude of the group difference with the graph showing 0-100%- can the y axis be adjusted to make this difference more obvious? It looks like the cocaine-treated animals were more accurate at P3- is that right?

      The concluding section is quite brief. The authors suggest that the failure to generalize across sequences observed in the current study could explain why people who are addicted to cocaine do not use information learned e.g. in classrooms or treatment programs to curtail their drug use. They do not acknowledge the limitations of their study e.g. use of male rats exclusively, or discuss alternative explanations of their data.

      We agree that the current 0–100% scale can make small differences difficult to discern. We will make it clear in the figure captions (We will adjust the y-axis to a narrower range to better highlight group differences). Across P3, cocaine-experienced rats were more accurate than controls.

      We appreciate the suggestion to expand the discussion. We have revised the concluding section to acknowledge key limitations, including the use of only male rats, the number of subjects, and to note that alternative explanations—such as differences in motivational state or attention—could also contribute to the observed effects. These revisions provide a more balanced interpretation while retaining the focus on OFC-mediated generalization as a potential mechanism for persistent, context-specific drug-seeking.

      Is it a problem that neuronal encoding of the "positions" i.e. the specific odors was at or near chance throughout in controls? Could they be using a simpler strategy based on the fact that two successive trials are rewarded, then two successive trials are not rewarded, such that the odors are irrelevant?

      We thank the reviewer for this point. While neuronal encoding of individual positions (specific odors) in control animals was comparatively lower, this does not indicate that the rats were using a simpler strategy based solely on reward patterns. First, rats were extensively trained on the odor sequence task prior to recordings, demonstrating accurate discrimination across all positions, and their trial-by-trial behavior reflects sensitivity to specific odors rather than only reward alternation. Second, the task design—with overlapping sequences and positions that differ in reward contingency across sequences—requires tracking odor-specific context to maximize reward; a purely “two rewarded, two non-rewarded” strategy would fail at overlapping positions and would not account for the compression of functionally equivalent positions observed in the OFC. Third, in the less-trained rats shown in Figure 3C, decoding accuracy was higher than in the sucrose group, indicating that these animals still differentiated negative positions. With additional training, decoding patterns suggested improved generalization across positions. Thus, the near-chance neural selectivity in controls reflects representation of latent task states rather than external sensory cues, consistent with the idea that OFC abstracts task-relevant structure and ignores irrelevant sensory differences.

      When looking at the RT and poke latency graphs, it seems the cocaine-experienced rats were faster to respond to rewarded odors, and also faster to poke after P3. Does this mean they were more motivated by the reward?

      At present, the basis of these response-time differences remains unclear, in part because motivation is difficult to define operationally. If motivation is indexed solely by reaction time or poke latency, then the data are consistent with increased response vigor in cocaine-experienced rats. Indeed, RT and poke-latency measures indicate that cocaine-experienced rats responded more quickly on some rewarded trials, including after P3. However, overall task performance was high in both groups, suggesting that these differences cannot be attributed simply to superior learning or engagement. Faster responses may also reflect differences in deliberation or strategy, with cocaine-experienced rats relying more on rapid, stimulus-driven responding and sucrose-trained rats engaging in more careful evaluation. In addition, altered reward sensitivity or persistent effects of cocaine exposure may contribute to these behavioral differences. Thus, the faster responses observed in cocaine-experienced rats likely reflect a combination of heightened reward responsivity and altered encoding of task structure, rather than a straightforward increase in motivation alone.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      The reviewers were very positive about the manuscript and emphasized the rigor and state of the art analyses. Two points that came up were the very small n (6 total and 3 per condition) and the exclusive use of males. Adding more subjects is not recommended. However, more discussion and acknowledgement of this issue is recommended. The main concern is that idiosyncratic differences between individuals (not differences in cocaine history) are responsible for the differences observed in OFC encoding.

      We acknowledge that the sample size (n = 3 per group) and use of only male rats limit generalizability and do not fully rule out idiosyncratic, individual-specific effects. However, the key neural and behavioral signatures we report were consistent across all animals within each group and across multiple analyses (single-unit, ensemble decoding, and TCA). We now explicitly note these limitations in the Discussion, emphasizing that while individual variability cannot be fully excluded, the convergence of results across multiple levels of analysis supports the interpretation that the observed differences reflect effects of prior cocaine exposure rather than idiosyncratic differences.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      In the legend to figure 2, the authors state "Notably, rats could discriminate between the two sequences (S1 vs. S2) based solely on current sensory information at two task epochs ["Odor" at P3 and P4; black bars]. At all other task epochs, indicated by gray bars, the discrimination relied on an internal memory of events". I'm confused by this statement- how does the odor at P3 help to discriminate the sequences? Surely P1 and P4 are the times when the odor sampling indicates which sequence they are in?

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out this source of confusion. The statement in the original figure legend was imprecise, and we have removed the figure and revised the figure legends because the results in the left panel substantially overlapped with those shown in the right panel. In this task, odors at positions P1 and P4 are the only cues that directly signal sequence identity, whereas the odors presented at P2 and P3 are identical across sequences. Accordingly, discrimination observed during the “Odor” epoch at P3 does not reflect sensory differences but instead depends on the animal’s use of internal memory or sequence context to infer sequence identity.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the current reviews.

      Reviewer #1:

      Yet I think that important aspects of my critique of the first statement of the manuscript about the flaws of [SR] model remain unanswered.

      I believe that I have fully addressed the points in the earlier review. The reviewer had doubted that my results were correct, attributing them to “a poor setup of the model” on my part. The reviewer stated that if I were correct about the factor of >10<sup>43</sup> change in cmax, this would “naturally break down all the estimates and conclusions made in Siljestam and Rueffler” (S&R).

      It appears that the reviewer is now convinced that my results represent a faithful analysis of the models on which S&R based their claims. The reviewer now contends that these results, including the factor of >10<sup>43</sup>, present no difficulties for the claims of S&R after all. In fact, this enormous factor of >10<sup>43</sup> is now claimed to support the conclusions of S&R by invalidating my conclusions. I respond to these new and very different arguments in what follows.

      As I stated in the first round of review, the issue is not the enormity of this factor per se, but the fact that the compensatory adjustment of cmax conceals the true effects of changes in other parameters. These effects are large; small changes to the parameter values mostly eliminate the diversity that the model is claimed to explain.

      The model in [SR] is not phenomenological as none of the parameters or functional forms were derived empirically. Instead, it is a proof of principle demonstration that inevitably grossly simplifies the actual immune response.

      The hidden sensitivity of the results of S&R to paramater values is sufficient to invalidate them as a proof of principle. The manuscript goes further and explains how the problem "is not specific to the details of the models of Siljestam and Rueffler, but is inherent in the phenomenon invoked to allow high diversity" because "any change that affects condition by as much as the difference between MHC heterozygotes and homozygotes will eliminate high equilibrium diversity". This general principle addresses all of the reviewer's points.

      In reality, a new pathogen cannot reduce the "survival" by such a factor as it would wipe out any resident population. So to compensate for such an artifact, the additional factor cmax was introduced to buffer such an excess. There is no reason to fix cmax once for an arbitrary number of pathogens, because varying cmax basically reflects the observation that a well-adapted individual must have a reasonable survival probability.

      This is not a legitimate reason for making compensatory, diversity-promoting adjustments to cmax when evaluating sensitivity to other parameters. If the number of pathogens or their virulence changes, cmax obviously does not automatically change along with it. If the population or species consequently goes extinct, then it goes extinct. If it persists, it does so with the same value of cmax.

      The possibility of extinction arguably puts a minimum value on cmax, but it does not restrict it to a range of values that conveniently leads to high MHC diversity. In the examples that I analyzed, slightly decreasing the number of pathogens or their virulence, which increases survivability, eliminates diversity. This phenomenon obviously cannot be dismissed on the grounds that survivability would be too low for the species to exist.

      S&R in effect assume that the condition of the most fit homozygote remains fixed, regardless of the number of pathogens, their virulence, and myriad other differences between species. It is this assumption that is without justification.

      At the same time, there are many ways in which the numerical simulation may break down when the survival rates become of the order of 10^(-43) instead of one

      I am not sure what is meant by “the numerical simulation may break down”. Numerical error is not a tenable explanation of the lack of diversity observed in that simulation. The outcome is exactly what is expected from purely theoretical considerations: conditions of all genotypes fall on the steep part of the curve, making the mechanism proposed by S&R largely inoperative, so a pair of alleles forming a fit heterozygote comes to predominate. The numerical simulation is actually superfluous.

      Low survival rates are completely irrelevant to the effect of decreasing the number of pathogens or their virulence, which does not lower survival rates, but does eliminate diversity.

      so it comes to no surprise that the diversification, predicted by the adaptive dynamics, does not readily occur in the scenario with an addition or removal of the 8th pathogen with a very high virulence \nu=20.

      Whether or not it surprising, the lack of diversity is a problem for the claims of S&R, as there is no reason to expect the number of pathogens to have just the right value to produce high diversity. Furthermore, for many combinations of values of the other parameters (e.g., my v=19.5 and 20.5 examples), no number of pathogens leads to high diversity.

      Again, the general principle mentioned above makes the details that the reviewer refers to irrelevant. Nonetheless, some additional remarks are in order:

      (1) This comment ignores the fact that removal of a pathogen, or a slight decrease in “virulence”, eliminates diversity without lowering survival rates.

      (2) Small increases or decreases in v (virulence) eliminate diversity without having such large effects on condition.

      (3) In the example emphasized by the reviewer, mean survival rates are nowhere near as low as 10<sup>-43</sup>. Only homozygotes have such low fitness.

      (4) The adaptive dynamics predict the low diversity seen in the simulations, contrary to what the reviewer seems to suggest. Elimination of diversity is not an artifact of the simulation.

      (5) v\=20 was chosen because it is most favorable to the model of S&R in that it yields the highest diversity. Indeed, S&R only observed realistically high diversity with the narrow gaussians that the reviewer objects to. With lower values of v, diversity is much lower, but even this meager diversity is eliminated by small changes in parameter values (see below). If narrow gaussians and large effects of pathogens somehow invalidate results, then they invalidate the high-diversity results of S&R.

      I have doubts that the reported breakdown of the [SR] model with fixed cmax remains observable with less extreme values of m and \nu (say, for \nu=7 and m=3 plus or minus 1 used in Fig. 3 in the manuscript).

      These doubts are unwarrented. With the suggested parameter values, for example, increasing or decreasing m by 1 reduces the effective number of alleles to around 1 or 2. This can easily be checked using the simulation code of S&R, as detailed in my initial response and now in a Supplementary Text. Even without this result, the general principle mentioned above tells us that considering other regions of parameter space cannot rescue the conclusions of S&R.

      So I still find the claim that " the phenomenon that leads to high diversity in the simulations of Siljestam and Rueffler depends on finely tuned parameter values" is not well substantiated.

      What is unsubstantiated is the claim of S&R that “For a large part of the parameter space, more than 100 and up to over 200 alleles can emerge and coexist”. As my manuscript illustrates, this is an illusion created by the adjustment of one parameter to compensate for changes in others.

      The reviewer even acknowledges that “the choice of constants and functions...works in a limited range of parameter values”. Furthermore, the manuscript explains why this problem is inherent to the general phenomenon, not specific to the details of the model or parameter values.


      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      It appears obvious that with no or a little fitness penalty, it becomes beneficial to have MHC-coding genes specific to each pathogen. A more thorough study that takes into account a realistic (most probably non-linear in gene number) fitness penalty, various numbers of pathogens that could grossly exceed the self-consistent fitness limit on the number of MHC genes, etc, could be more informative.

      The reviewer seems to be referring to the cost of excessively high presentation breadth. Such a cost is irrelevant to the inferior fitness of a polymorphic population with heterozygote advantage compared to a monomorphic population with merely doubled gene copy number. It is relevant to the possibility of a fitness valley separating these two states, but this issue is addressed explicitly in the manuscript.

      An addition or removal of one of the pathogens is reported to affect "the maximum condition", a key ecological characteristic of the model, by an enormous factor 10^43, naturally breaking down all the estimates and conclusions made in [RS]. This observation is not substantiated by any formulas, recipes for how to compute this number numerically, or other details, and is presented just as a self-standing number in the text.

      It is encouraging that the reviewer agrees that this observation, if correct, would cast doubt on the conclusions of Siljestam and Rueffler. I would add that it is not the enormity of this factor per se that invalidates those conclusions, but the fact that the automatic compensatory adjustment of c</sub>max</sub> conceals the true effects of removing a pathogen, which are quite large.

      I am not sure why the reviewer doubts that this observation is correct. The factor of 2.7∙10<sup>43</sup> was determined in a straightforward manner in the course of simulating the symmetric Gaussian model of Siljestam and Rueffler with the specified parameter values. A simple way to determine this number is to have the simulation code print the value to which c</sub>max</sub> is set, or would be set, by the procedure of Siljestam and Rueffler for different parameter values. I have in this way confirmed this factor using the simulation code written and used by Siljestam and Rueffler. A procedure for doing so is described in the new Supplementary Text S1. In addition, I now give a theoretical derivation of this factor in Supplementary Text S2.

      This begs the conclusion that the branching remains robust to changes in cmax that span 4 decades as well.

      That shows at most that the results are not extremely sensitive to c</sub>max</sub> or K. They are, nonetheless, exquisitely sensitive to m and v. This difference in sensitivities is the reason that a relatively small change to m leads to such a large compensatory change in c</sub>max</sub>. It is evident from Fig. 4 of Siljestam and Rueffler that the level of diversity is not robust to these very large changes in c</sub>max</sub>, which include, as noted above, a change of over 43 orders of magnitude.

      As I wrote above, there is no explanation behind this number, so I can only guess that such a number is created by the removal or addition of a pathogen that is very far away from the other pathogens. Very far in this context means being separated in the x-space by a much greater distance than 1/\nu, the width of the pathogens' gaussians. Once again, I am not totally sure if this was the case, but if it were, some basic notions of how models are set up were broken. It appears very strange that nothing is said in the manuscript about the spatial distribution of the pathogens, which is crucial to their effects on the condition c.

      I did not explicitly describe the distribution of pathogens in antigenic space because it is exactly the same as in Siljestam and Rueffler, Fig. 4: the vertices of a regular simplex, centered at the origin, with unity edge length.

      The number in question (2.7∙10<sup>43</sup>) pertains to the Gaussian model with v\=20. As specified by Siljestam and Rueffler, each pathogen lies at a distance of 1 from every other pathogen, so the distance of any pathogen from the others is indeed much greater than 1/v. This condition holds, however, for most of the parameter space explored by Siljestam and Rueffler (their Fig. 4), and for all of the parameter space that seemingly supports their conclusions. Thus, if this condition indicates that “basic notions of how models are set up were broken”, they must have been broken by Siljestam and Rueffler.

      ...the branching condition appears to be pretty robust with respect to reasonable changes in parameters.

      It is clear from Fig. 4 of Siljestam and Rueffler that the branching condition is far from sufficient for high MHC diversity.

      Overall, I strongly suspect that an unfortunately poor setup of the model reported in the manuscript has led to the conclusions that dispute the much better-substantiated claims made in [SD].

      The reviewer seems to be suggesting that my simulations are somehow flawed and my conclusions unreliable. I have addressed the reasons for this suggestion above. Furthermore, I have confirmed the main conclusion—the extreme sensitivity of the results of Siljestam and Rueffler to parameter values--using the code that they used for their simulations, indicating that my conclusions are not consequences of my having done a “poor setup of the model”. I now describe, in Supplementary Text S1, how anybody can verify my conclusions in this way.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      (1) The statement that the model outcome of Siljestam and Rueffler is very sensitive to parameter values is, in this form, not correct. The sensitivity is only visible once a strong assumption by Siljestam and Rueffler is removed. This assumption is questionable, and it is well explained in the manuscript by J. Cherry why it should not be used. This may be seen as a subtle difference, but I think it is important to pin done the exact nature of the problem (see, for example, the abstract, where this is presented in a misleading way).

      I appreciate the distinction, and the importance of clearly specifying the nature of the problem. However, as I understand it, Siljestam and Rueffler do not invoke the implausible assumption that changes to the number of pathogens or their virulence will be accompanied by compensatory changes to c</sub>max</sub>. Rather, they describe the adjustment of c</sub>max</sub> (Appendix 7) as a “helpful” standardization that applies “without loss of generality”. Indeed, my low-diversity results could be obtained, despite such adjustment, by combining the small change to m or v with a very large change to K (e.g., a factor of 2.7∙10<sup>43</sup>). In this sense there is no loss of generality, but the automatic adjustment of c</sub>max</sub> obscures the extreme sensitivity of the results to m and v.

      (2) The title of the study is very catchy, but it needs to be explained better in the text.

      I have expanded the end of the Discussion in the hope of clarifying the point expressed by the title.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I would like to suggest to the author that they provide essential details about their simulations that would justify their claims, and to communicate with Mattias Siljestam and Claus Rueffler whether claims of the lack of robustness could be confirmed.

      The models simulated were modified versions of those of Siljestam and Rueffler. Thus, only the modifications were described in my manuscript. I have added a more detailed description of how c</sub>max</sub> was set in the simulations concerned with sensitivity to parameter values. In addition, the new Supplementary Text S1, which describes confirmation of the lack of robustness using the code of Siljestam and Rueffler, should remove any doubt about this conclusion.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I have no further recommendations. The manuscript is well written and clear.

      Thank you.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Since this is a full report and not just a letter to the editor, it would benefit from a bit more introduction of what the MHC actually is and what the current understanding of its evolution is. Currently, it assumes a lot of knowledge about these genes that might not be available to every reader of eLife.

      I have added some more information to the opening paragraph. I would also note that this report was submitted as a “Research Advance”, which may only need “minimal introductory material”.

      (2) Some more recent literature on MHC evolution should be added, e.g., the review by Radwan et al. 2020 TiG, a concrete case of MHC heterozygote advantage by Arora et al. 2020 MolBiolEvol, and a simulation of MHC CNV evolution by Bentkowski et al. 2019 PLOSCompBiol.

      I have cited some additional literature.

      (3) Since much of the criticism hinges on the cmax parameter, its biological meaning or role (or the lack thereof) could be discussed more.

      I am not sure what I can add to what is in the first paragraph of the Discussion.

      (4) I find it difficult to grasp how the v parameter, which is intended to define pathogen virulence, if I understand it correctly, can be used to amend the breadth of peptide presentation. Maybe this could be illustrated better.

      I have attempted to make this clearer. The parameter v actually controls the breadth of peptide detection conferred by an allele, which, if not identical to the breath of presentation, is certainly affected by it. The basis of the “virulence” interpretation seems to be that narrower detection breadth can, according to the model, only decrease peptide detection probability, which increases the damage done by pathogens.

      (5) Please check sentences in lines 279ff on peptide detection and cost of . There seem to be words missing.

      There was an extraneous word, which I have removed. Thank you for pointing this out.

    1. Author response:

      Response to reviewer 1:

      We thank reviewer 1 for their thoughtful, detailed, and constructive evaluation of our manuscript. We appreciate their recognition of the strengths of the study, particularly the integration of noradrenergic recordings, optogenetic manipulation, and cross-species analyses. We are especially grateful for the reviewer’s careful attention to clarity, experimental interpretation, and control comparisons. The comments have helped us sharpen the framing of our hypotheses, clarify causal claims, improve statistical reporting, and better explain our closed-loop approach and heart rate analyses. We have addressed each point in detail below and believe that the revisions substantially strengthen the manuscript.

      Response reviewer 2:

      We thank reviewer 2 for their thoughtful comment regarding citation, positioning relative to prior work, and caution in mechanistic interpretation. We have made efforts to cite relevant foundational and related work throughout the manuscript, but we will of course further clarify the relationship between our findings and prior studies in the revision.

      Although prior work has demonstrated infraslow coupling between sigma activity and heart rate and established a role for the locus coeruleus (LC) in coordinating these oscillations, cardiac measures have typically been presented as secondary observations rather than as primary experimental targets. While we of course recognize all the prior efforts conducted, a central goal of the present study was to perform a targeted and highly systematic characterization of norepinephrine-mediated heart-rate dynamics during sleep, integrating infraslow relationships, sleep-wake transitions, and a range of physiological manipulations of LC activity. A major priority of ours was to link infraslow heart-rate fluctuations to the well-known very-low-frequency (VLF) component of heart rate variability (HRV). Within the clinical HRV field, VLF has remained comparatively under-characterized and mechanistically unresolved. Our findings provide a biologically grounded explanation for this component, which we believe may be informative for the broader HRV community.

      Second, a core aim of this work is to provide a translational tool: to determine whether cardiac dynamics alone can reflect the infraslow, memory-consolidating potential of sleep and thus serve as a non-invasive biomarker. Because direct LC recordings are not feasible in humans, HRV, including its VLF component, may offer a clinically accessible proxy of sleep’s memory-restorative capacity. By directly manipulating LC activity and demonstrating corresponding changes in heart-rate dynamics, we strengthen the mechanistic and translational rationale of this biomarker approach. Our findings suggest that heart-rate measures alone may provide an estimate of the infraslow memory-consolidating potential of sleep.<br /> In revision, we will ensure that the foundational findings underlying this manuscript are highlighted, while communicating our new findings more clearly.

    1. Author response:

      eLife Assessment

      This important study investigates the impact of BRCA1/2 mutations on immunotherapy in lung adenocarcinoma using multi-omics approaches. The detailed genetic analysis of two cancer genes (BRCA1 and BRCA2) demonstrated new roles for these genes in causing the tumor microenvironment in lung cancer. Further experimental explorations of the immune-related changes may still be required. The solid findings of this study provide a foundation for further developing drugs targeting BRCA1/2 in lung cancer therapy.

      We would like to express our sincere gratitude for your thoughtful and constructive comments on our manuscript. We will carefully consider each comment from these two reviewers and will revise the manuscript accordingly. Below, we provide a point-by-point response to each comment.

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Liao et al. performed a large-scale integrative analysis to explore the function of two cancer genes (BRCA1 and BRCA2) in lung cancer, which is one of the cancers with an extremely high mortality rate. The detailed genetic analysis demonstrated new roles of BRCA1/2 in causing the tumor microenvironment in lung cancer. In particular, the discovery of different mechanisms of BRCA1 and BRCA2 provides an essential foundation for developing drugs that target BRCA1 or BRCA2 in lung cancer therapy.

      Strengths:

      (1) This study leveraged large-scale genomic and transcriptomic datasets to investigate the prognostic implications of BRCA1/2 mutations in LUAD patients (~2,000 samples). The datasets range from genomics to single-cell RNA-seq to scTCR-seq.

      (2) In particular, the scTCR-seq offers a powerful approach for understanding T cell diversity, clonal expansion, and antigen-specific immune responses. Leveraging these data, this study found that BRCA1 mutations were associated with CD8+ Trm expansion, whereas BRCA2 mutations were linked to tumor CD4+ Trm expansion and peripheral T/NK cell cytotoxicity.

      (3) This study also performed a comprehensive analysis of genomic variation, gene expression, and clinical data from the TCGA program, which provides an independent validation of the findings from LUAD patients newly collected in this study.

      (4) This study provides an exemplary integration analysis using both computational biology and wet bench experiments. The experimental testing in the A549 cell line further supports the robustness of the computational analysis.

      (5) The findings of this study offer a comprehensive view of the molecular mechanisms underlying BRCA1 and BRCA2 mutations in LUAD. BRCA1 and BRCA2 are two well-known cancer-related genes in multiple cancers. However, their role in shaping the tumor microenvironment, particularly in lung cancer, is largely unknown.

      (6) By focusing on PD-L1-negative LUAD patients, this study demonstrated the molecular mechanisms underlying resistance to immune therapy. These new insights highlight new opportunities for personalized therapeutic strategies to BRCA-driven tumors. For example, they found histone deacetylase (HDAC) inhibitors consistently downregulated 4-R genes in A549 cells.

      (7) The deposition of raw single-cell sequencing (including scRNA-seq and scTCR-seq) data will provide an essential data resource for further discovery in this field.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The finding of histone deacetylase (HDAC) inhibitors suggests the potential roles of epigenetic regulation in lung cancer. It would be interesting to explore epigenetic changes in LUAD patients in the future.

      Thank you for your insightful comment. We fully agree that the specific situation of epigenetic dysregulation in LUAD needs to be explored. We believe that future investigations utilizing clinical specimens and animal models to map histone acetylation patterns and DNA methylation profiles will be crucial for identifying novel biomarkers and therapeutic targets unique to LUAD.

      (2) For some methods, more detailed information is needed.

      This is a valid point. We agree that additional details regarding are necessary for clarity and reproducibility. We will expand these method details in the revised manuscript.

      (3) There are grammar issues in the text that need to be fixed.

      We apologize for our irregular use of grammar. In the revised manuscript, we will carefully check the grammar and make corrections.

      (4) Some text in the figures is not labeled well.

      We appreciate the reviewers' comments. We will add labels to the revised version of the figures.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study investigates the impact of BRCA1/2 mutations on immunotherapy in lung adenocarcinoma using multi-omics approaches. The work highlights distinct roles of BRCA1 and BRCA2 mutations in shaping immune-related processes, and is logically structured with clearly presented analyses. However, the conclusions rely primarily on descriptive computational analyses and would benefit from additional immunological validation.

      Strengths:

      By integrating public datasets with in-house data, this study examines the impact of BRCA1/2 mutations on immunotherapy in lung adenocarcinoma from multiple perspectives using multi-omics approaches. The analyses are diverse in scope, with a clear overall logic and a well-organized structure.

      Weaknesses:

      The study is largely descriptive and would benefit from additional immunological experiments or validation using in vivo models. The fact that the BRCA1 and BRCA2 samples were each derived from a single patient also limits the robustness of the conclusions.

      Thank you for this excellent suggestion. In the revised manuscript, we will supplement the additional immunological experiments or validation using in vivo models. In addition, we will elaborate on the limitations of our study in the Discussion section and provide reasonable explanations.

    1. Author response:

      eLife Assessment

      The findings of this study are important since they cover the repurposing of small molecules as snake venom metalloprotease and phospholipase inhibitors for early intervention in the treatment of bothropic envenoming in the Neotropics, and thus provide a strong rationale for the progression of these inhibitors into future preclinical and clinical evaluation for snakebite indications across various ecological zones. The strength of the evidence is solid; however, there are some weaknesses, such as a lack of translatability of the in vivo model and insufficient venom characterisation. Thus, the strength of the evidence can be enhanced by the use of a mouse model. The paper remains of interest to ophiologists, biochemists and medicinal chemists.

      We thank the editors and reviewers for their assessment of this manuscript, and for the positive words highlighting the value of undertaking evaluation of small molecule drugs for snakebite in the neotropics. We completely agree that the next steps for this work will be to evaluate the preclinical efficacy of the identified drugs in mouse models. The comment around insufficient venom characterisation seems somewhat misplaced – the objective of this project was not to characterise the venoms used, but to evaluate the in vitro inhibition of venom toxin family activities and identify the potential utility of specific repurposed drugs as therapeutics for snakebite in the Neotropics.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Small molecule therapeutics for snakebite have received a lot of attention for their potential to close the gap between bite and treatment, where antivenom is not immediately available.

      Strengths:

      There has been a lot of focus on Africa, Asia, and India, but very little work related to neotropical regions. The authors seek to begin filling this gap in the preclinical literature. The authors use well-developed methods for preclinical assessment.

      Weaknesses:

      A clearer and more focused discussion of the limitations of the overall present work would be desirable (e.g. protection vs. rescue, why marimastat over prinomastat for in vivo assays when both have been through clinical trials for other indications; real-world feasibility of nafamostat, which has a half-life of 1-2 minutes compared to camostat, which has a half-life of hours). All of this could be improved in a revision.

      We thank the reviewer for their shared opinion of the potential value of small molecules as snakebite envenoming therapeutics and their insight on the gap in focus in the neotropics, which this manuscript aims to address. Our work in this manuscript included the standard practice of pre-incubation between drug and venom for all in vitro studies, and sequential (i.e. not co-incubation) administration in the egg model. In our revised manuscript, we will make these distinctions clearer. Use of a ‘rescue’ approach in the in vitro assays is not feasible due to the rapid destruction of the substrates used for assay readouts. The clearest rationale for the use of rescue models relates to their power within in vivo preclinical models (i.e. murine envenoming models), which, following the in vitro characterisations presented in this paper, are the logical next step for evaluating small molecule drugs for inhibiting neotropical snake venoms.

      Although both marimastat and prinomastat are repurposed drugs that have undergone clinical evaluation for other indications, marimastat has been more extensively characterised preclinically than prinomastat for snakebite, and will soon enter Phase II clinical trial evaluation for this indication (https://www.ddw-online.com/ophirex-to-produce-snake-venom-inhibitor-for-lstm-study-40669-202602/). Marimastat also has a longer half-life in humans of 8-10 hours (Millar et al. 1998), compared to prinomastat (2-5h, Hande et al. 2004). We will more clearly highlight the rationale for selecting marimastat in the revised manuscript.

      Although we appreciate the reviewer’s point regarding the short half-life of nafamostat (which is typically given by continuous iv infusion due to its short half-life), in the manuscript we have already stated (Line 434 to 448) that we do not recommend the progression of nafamostat as a snake venom serine protease (SVSP) inhibitor candidate due its low efficacy and off target effects. We highlight the need for the community to identify other serine protease inhibitors that might have utility for snakebite.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors set out to test whether a defined set of small molecules can lessen damaging effects caused by venoms from several Bothrops species, and whether these effects are consistent enough to suggest a broadly applicable approach. They present a cross-venom dataset spanning in-vitro activity readouts and blood-based functional outcomes, and include a chicken embryo model to explore whether venom inhibition can translate into improved survival. The central message is that certain small molecules can reduce specific venom-driven effects across multiple samples, providing a comparative resource for the field and a basis for prioritizing future validation.

      Strengths:

      The main value of this work is the breadth and structure of the dataset, which places multiple venoms and multiple readouts into a single, comparable framework that should be useful for readers evaluating patterns across samples. The experimental flow is generally coherent, moving from activity measurements to functional outcomes and then to an in-vivo test, which helps the reader understand how the authors link mechanism-oriented assays to more integrated endpoints. The manuscript also provides practical information for the community by highlighting which readouts appear most consistently affected across venoms, which can help guide hypothesis generation and study design in follow-up work.

      Weaknesses:

      Several aspects of the study design and framing reduce the confidence with which readers can translate the findings beyond the specific experimental context presented. The evidence base is strongest in controlled in-vitro settings, while the bridge to real-world effectiveness remains limited, particularly for understanding performance under conditions that better reflect delayed treatment and systemic exposure. As a result, the manuscript is best interpreted as a well-organized comparative screening study with promising signals, rather than a definitive demonstration of a broadly effective, deployable intervention.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s opinion on the thorough and logical workflow we present in this manuscript and the value this pipeline providers the field for future and parallel work. We agree with the reviewer that this provides a well-organized comparative screening study applicable to different snake species or therapeutics. In relation to the comment on this manuscript being a ‘definitive demonstration of a broadly effective, deployable intervention’, we agree with their opinion and are happy to clarify that while the evidence presented in this manuscript is promising, there is much work still to do before such molecules are ready for deployment for treating snakebite. Ultimately, this manuscript supports the growing evidence of the promising utility of marimastat and varespladib, and extends this evidence to neotropical snake venoms in a comparative manner. The next step will be to evaluate the efficacy of these molecules within in vivo murine preclinical models, which will be crucial for further supporting the evidence base for onward translation.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      In this work, the authors wanted to evaluate repurposed small molecule inhibitors for the treatment of envenomation by snakes of the Bothrops genus; one of the most medically relevant in the Americas. I believe the objectives of the research were clearly achieved, and compelling evidence for the ability of these molecules to neutralize enzymatic and toxic activities of metalloproteinases and phospholipases in all the tested venoms is provided. Furthermore, the work highlights the limited efficacy of the tested serine protease inhibitor, suggesting a need for drug discovery campaigns to address toxicity caused by this protein family. The methods are well designed and performed, and the use of both in vitro and in vivo methodologies makes this a thorough and robust work.

      These results are extremely relevant, since they take us one step further to a potential orally administered snakebite treatment. The existence of such a treatment could improve the outcomes for thousands of snakebite victims worldwide. I have a few comments and questions that I hope will be useful to the authors:

      We thank the author for their high regard for the purpose and execution of this work. Their insight in relation to questions are supportive for an improved manuscript and discussion points for the field.

      During the introduction, the authors mention that small-molecule inhibitors can neutralize the localized tissue damage via cytotoxicity of some venoms, and cite PLA2s, SVMPs and/or cytotoxic 3FTxs as the main causing agents of this pathology. I am not aware of any direct effect described by small molecule inhibitors on cytotoxic 3FTxs alone. Has this been observed at all? Or is it more likely that the small molecule inhibitors act on the enzymatic toxins only, preventing synergistic effects with 3FTxs?

      We apologise for this error on our behalf. While inhibitory molecules have been described for cytotoxic 3FTxs, these are not small molecules as alluded to in the previous version of the manuscript. We have amended this text in our revision.

      I think it would be relevant to address the effects of non-enzymatic PLA2s, such as myotoxin II, which have been described in detail within Bothrops venoms. I believe there is some evidence of Varespladib also having a neutralizing effect on the myotoxicity caused by these non-enzymatic PLA2s. I suggest adding a comment about the contribution of these toxins in the discussion or in the section where PLA2 activity of the venoms is compared. In my opinion, right now it seems like these were overlooked.

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting this point. We agree that this is highly relevant and would benefit from discussion in the revised manuscript given the nature of our assays and the non-enzymatic mechanism of action of certain Bothrops PLA<sub>2</sub>s.

      Regarding Marimastat and the other MP inhibitors, are there any studies showing that they don't have an effect on endogenous MPs? I understand they have been approved for human use before, but is there any indication that they would not have an effect at the doses that would be required to treat envenomation?

      Most matrix metalloproteinases inhibitors will act on endogenous MPs to at least some extent (variable potency on different MMPs). Marimastat has demonstrated activity against endogenous metalloproteinases, including MMP1, which was hypothesised to cause severe joint pain when used chronically (i.e. frequent dosing over many weeks) for indications such as cancer, though this effect was reversible within 8 weeks of cessation of drug administration (Wojtowicz-Praga, 1998). Thus long-term use of matrix metalloproteinases inhibitors can cause safety concerns. However, the anticipated duration of dosing for snakebite, which is an acute life-threatening condition, is a few days. It is therefore unlikely that prior safety concerns observed following chronic dosing in cancer studies would apply to its potential use as a snakebite field therapy.

      Regarding the quenched fluorescence substrate used for enzymatic activity. Is there a possibility that some of the SVMPs would not act on this substrate, and therefore their activity or neutralization is not observed? Would it be relevant to test other substrates, such as gelatin, collagen, or even specific clotting factors?

      It has been observed that certain SVMPs (specifically several PI SVMPs) are not active against this ES010 substrate in vitro. The substrate used in the in vitro SVMP assay is reported by the manufacturer as a substrate for a wide range of MMPs which target the extracellular matrix components mentioned by the reviewer, i.e. collagenases and gelatinases as well as matrilysins, stromelysins and elastate. This in vitro assay combined with the coagulation assays are complementary in covering the main targets of SVMPs (ECM and clotting cascade), prior to haemorrhagic assessment in the egg model. Thus, we are confident that activity for the broad range of SVMP isoforms will be captured through the screening pipeline we have developed.

      Finally, could the authors comment or provide some bibliography regarding the translatability of the chicken embryo model in the context of envenomation?

      Our current model is based on an earlier egg embryo model (Sells et al. 1997, Sells et al. 1998 and Sells et al. 2000) which described good correlations (p<0.01) with the standard WHO murine preclinical envenoming model. These studies have assessed correlations for minimal haemorrhagic doses (MHDs), LD50s and ED50s in both models for a selection of viper venoms. As chicken embryos at day 6 of development have incomplete neural arcs, the model is not well suited for assessing neurotoxic effects, but can be effectively used for addressing venom-induced haemorrhage and lethality and for testing therapeutics. In addition, a more recent study (Yusuf et al. 2023) reported almost identical LD50s for the venom of Bitis arietans between the two in vivo approaches. The model is also being pursued as a preclinical testing model by an antivenom manufacturer with the focus of reducing the use of rodents in batch release testing (Verity et al. 2021). We will provide further clarification on the rationale for using the egg model, including the supportive references outlined above, in the revised manuscript.

    1. Author response:

      General Statements

      We thank the reviewers for their thoughtful and constructive comments on our manuscript. We have thoroughly considered all points raised and have made extensive revisions to address them. These revisions have significantly strengthened the manuscript.

      In summary, the key revisions and clarifications include:

      (1) Developmental Time-Course: To address the need for earlier phenotypic analysis, we have performed new immunofluorescence experiments at 30 days after hatching (dah). This new data (Fig. S7) precisely pinpoints the onset of the Leydig cell differentiation defect in dhh<sup>-/-</sup> mutants, establishing ~30 dah as the critical window for Dhh action.

      (2) Role of Ptch1 and Ptch2: We have qualified our conclusions regarding receptor specificity throughout the text to accurately reflect our findings and the limitation posed by the early lethality of ptch1 mutants. The in vivo genetic evidence for Ptch2 (the rescue of dhh<sup>-/-</sup> by ptch2<sup>-/-</sup>) is emphasized, while we now explicitly state that a role for Ptch1 cannot be ruled out without future conditional knockout models.

      (3) Mechanism between Gli1 and Sf1: In direct response to the reviewers' request for stronger evidence, we have performed a new cold probe competition assay. This experiment provides dose-dependent, biochemical evidence for the specificity of Gli1 binding to the sf1 promoter (New Fig. 5E). Furthermore, we have revised the text throughout the manuscript to use more precise language (e.g., "Gli1 activates sf1 expression") and removed overstated claims of "direct" regulation.

      (4) Methodological Rigor and Controls: We have added crucial negative controls for all RNA-FISH experiments using sense probes (New Fig. S9), provided detailed quantification methods for immunofluorescence, clarified the number of biological replicates for transcriptomic analyses, and corrected statistical tests as recommended.

      (5) Clarity and Presentation: We have revised the text for clarity, expanded the description of the TSL cell line's validation in the Introduction, added missing details to figure legends and methods, and incorporated suggested key references.

      We believe that our detailed responses and the significant new data and textual revisions have fully addressed the reviewers' concerns and have substantially improved the quality and impact of our manuscript.

      Point-by-point description of the revisions

      Reviewer #1 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

      Summary

      This manuscript by Zhao et. al investigates the canonical hedgehog pathway in testis development of Nile tilapia. They used complementary approaches with genetically modified tilapia and transfected TSL cells (a clonal stem Leydig cell line) previously derived from 3-mo old tilapia. The approach is innovative and provides a means to investigate DHH and each downstream component from the ptch receptors to the gli and sf1 transcription factors. They concluded that Dhh binds Ptch2 to stimulate Gli1 to promote an increase in Sf1 expression leading to the onset of 11-ketotesterone synthesis heralding the differentiation of Leydig cells in the developing male tilapia.

      Major comments:

      (1) Are the key conclusions convincing?

      Most results as reported are convincing; however, some conclusions are premature as additional experiments are required to satisfy their claims. For example, the phenotype of the dhh-/- testis is convincing in that Cyp1c1 cells are missing and the addition of ptch2-/- rescues the phenotype indicating a direct path. The link from gli to sf1, however, requires additional study to validate the direct relationship (see item 3 below).

      We thank the reviewer for the positive assessment that our principal findings are convincing. Regarding the connection between Gli1 and Sf1, we agree that additional validation was important. We have now performed new experiments and revised our text. As detailed in our response to item 3 below, we have incorporated a cold probe competition assay (new Fig. 5E) which provides dose-dependent evidence for the specificity of Gli1 binding to the sf1 promoter. Furthermore, we have toned down our conclusions in the manuscript.

      (2) Should the authors qualify some of their claims as preliminary or speculative, or remove them altogether?

      Major: Most significant premature claim is the statement that gli1 directly controls sf1 activity. Additional experiments are required to make this claim (see next statement).

      We agree with the reviewer that the claim of "direct" control was premature. We have therefore revised the manuscript accordingly. All statements claiming "direct" regulation of sf1 by Gli1 have been removed or replaced with more accurate descriptions, such as "Gli1 activates sf1 expression" and "Sf1 is a key transcriptional target of Gli1." These changes, coupled with the new functional data from the cold probe competition experiment (Fig. 5E) described in our response to item 3, now provide a robust and appropriately qualified account of our findings.

      Minor: As addressed in the discussion section, the ptch1 animals fail to survive limiting the ability to validate both ptch1 and ptch2 roles. Thus, the conclusion that only ptch2 is required should be qualified.

      We thank the reviewer for this rigorous comment. We fully acknowledge the limitation imposed by the early lethality of ptch1 mutants, which precludes a definitive in vivo assessment of its potential role in postnatal testis development. In direct response to this point, we have revised the text throughout the manuscript to more accurately reflect the strength of our conclusions. Specifically, in the Results section, we now state that “This differential receptor requirement implies that Ptch2 likely acts as the functional receptor for transducing Dhh signals in TSL cells” (lines 174–176). Furthermore, we have strengthened the Discussion by explicitly stating: “Therefore, while our findings strongly nominate Ptch2 as the principal receptor for Dhh in SLCs, a definitive exclusion of a role for Ptch1 will require future studies employing Leydig cell–specific conditional knockout models” (lines 265–268). We believe these revisions provide a appropriately qualified interpretation of our data while maintaining the compelling narrative of Ptch2's primary role.

      Major: There are a couple of key references missing however, please consider including:

      - Kothandapani A, Lewis SR, Noel JL, Zacharski A, Krellwitz K, Baines A, Winske S, Vezina CM, Kaftanovskaya EM, Agoulnik AI, Merton EM, Cohn MJ, Jorgensen JS.PLoS Genet. 2020 Jun 4;16(6):e1008810. doi: 10.1371/journal.pgen.1008810. eCollection 2020 Jun.PMID: 32497091

      - Park SY, Tong M, Jameson JL.Endocrinology. 2007 Aug;148(8):3704-10. doi: 10.1210/en.2006-1731. Epub 2007 May 10.PMID: 17495005

      We have included the key references: Kothandapani A, et al. (2020). PLoS Genet. and Park SY, et al. (2007). Endocrinology.

      (3) Would additional experiments be essential to support the claims of the paper? Request additional experiments only where necessary for the paper as it is, and do not ask authors to open new lines of experimentation. Additional experiments are suggested to strengthen the direct connection between gli1 and sf1:

      Major: Figure 5F shows evidence for increased sf1-luc activity upon co-transfection of OnGli1 in TSL cells. These data would be strengthened with evaluation of the same sf1 promoter that has each/both putative GLI binding sites mutated.

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful suggestion. To further strengthen the evidence for the functional connection between Gli1 and the sf1 promoter, we have performed a new cold probe competition experiment. Given the potential presence of other unpredicted Gli-binding motifs within the 5-kb sf1 promoter region and the practical constraints, we employed an alternative, robust biochemical approach. This assay used a wild-type oligonucleotide containing the canonical Gli-binding motif (GACCACCCA) as a specific competitor. As shown in the new Fig. 5E, this cold probe caused a significant, dose-dependent reduction in Gli1-induced sf1-luc activity, while a mutated control probe (TTAATTAAA) had no effect. This result provides strong evidence that Gli1-mediated transactivation of the sf1 promoter is dependent on its specific binding to this consensus motif.

      Furthermore, in response to the reviewer's comment, we have revised the manuscript text to use more precise language, such as "Gli1 activates sf1 expression" and "Sf1 is a key transcriptional target of Gli1," toning down any overstated claims of direct regulation. Together with the existing data-which includes the original luciferase assay, the new competition experiment, and key loss-of-function/gain-of-function genetic evidence from SLCs transplantation-we believe our study now provides a compelling and multi-faceted case for Gli1 being the key regulator of sf1 within this pathway. We are confident that these revisions have satisfactorily addressed the point raised.

      Major: All 8xGli-luciferase assays should include evaluation of the mutant 8xGli-luciferase plasmid as a negative control.

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting the importance of reporter assay controls. In our study, we included the empty vector pGL4.23, which lacks any Gli-binding sites, as the fundamental negative control. As shown in Fig. 4C, this vector showed minimal background activity that was unresponsive to Dhh, confirming that the strong luciferase induction in the 8xGli-reporter is entirely dependent on functional Gli-binding sites. While a mutated 8xGli construct is one valid approach, we think that the use of an empty vector is functionally equivalent and equally rigorous for establishing specificity. We are confident that our current data unambiguously demonstrate Gli-dependent activation. For clarity, we have explicitly stated in the figure legend and methods that pGL4.23 served as the negative control.

      Minor: Figure 5D experiment that includes TSL-gli1(also 2,3) +/- OnDhh; please examine whether the absence of Gli affects expression of sf1 in each condition. In other words, provide a loss-of-function of Gli connection to regulation of sf1.

      We measured the mRNA expression levels of sf1 in TSL-WT, TSL-gli1<sup>-/-</sup>, TSL-gli2<sup>-/-</sup>, and TSL-gli3<sup>-/-</sup> cells using qRT-PCR. The results are presented in the new Supplementary Figure S8A. The results show that the loss of gli1 leads to a significant reduction in the expression of sf1. In contrast, the knockout of gli2 or gli3 had no significant effect on sf1 expression levels.

      (4) Are the suggested experiments realistic in terms of time and resources? It would help if you could add an estimated cost and time investment for substantial experiments.

      Given the expertise, it is not anticipated that the suggested experiments would be a significant burden to this group.

      We appreciate the reviewer's considerations. Now, we have performed the additional key experiments, which have been incorporated into the revised manuscript. We believe these new data have fully addressed the points raised.

      (5) Are the data and the methods presented in such a way that they can be reproduced?

      Most methods are adequately described or referenced to previous detailed description. There were, however, some methods that could benefit from additional details:

      Major: IF quantification data: please provide details on how the number of positive cells were quantified and presented, for example, how many cells from how many sections for each genotype were included for the analysis?

      We have added relevant information in the "Materials and Methods" section in line 369-373: “For each biological replicate (n\=5-6 fish per genotype), three non-serial, non-adjacent testis sections were analyzed. From each section, three representative fields of view were captured to ensure non-overlapping sampling. All positive cells number of Vasa, Sycp3 and Cyp11c1 was quantified by Image J Pro 1.51 software using default parameters.”

      Major: FISH: No controls are present, for example, scrambled RNA probes. Further, please clarify or address the significant presence of message in the nucleus.

      As suggested, we have now included negative control experiments using sense RNA probes for all genes (ptch1, ptch2, gli1, gli2, gli3). These controls showed no specific signal, confirming the specificity of our antisense probe hybridization. These data are now presented in the new Supplementary Figure S9.

      Major: TSL cells: TSL-onDhh, -onSf1: provide evidence for increase in expression

      We measured the mRNA expression levels of dhh in TSL-WT and TSL-OnDhh, and sf1 in TSL-WT and TSL-OnSf1 using qRT-PCR. The results are presented in the new Supplementary Figure S8B. The results show that overexpression of Dhh and Sf1 significantly increased the mRNA expression levels of dhh and sf1, respectively.

      Major: TSL + SAG cells and other treatments in general: how long were they treated before transplantation?

      Response: We have added relevant information in the "Materials and Methods" section in line 398-399: “For the SAG treatment experiment, TSL cells were incubated with 0.5 μM SAG for 48 hours before transplantation.”

      Major: Transcriptome analyses: how many replicates were used for each cell line? Please clarify-the results presented in Fig 5E: how was this plot generated, it is interpreted that all three cell lines were combined and compared to the WT line. It is not clear how this was achieved.

      We have added relevant information in the "Materials and Methods" section in line 445-447: “For the SAG treatment experiment, TSL cells were incubated with 0.5 μM SAG for 48 hours before collection. For each genotype, cells from three independent culture wells were pooled.

      Added relevant information in the "Results" section in line 198-202: “…we performed transcriptomic profiling of TSL cells under conditions of pathway activation: Dhh overexpression (TSL-OnDhh), Gli1 overexpression (TSL-OnGli1), and SAG treatment (TSL+SAG). Comparative RNA-seq analysis identified a core set of 33 genes consistently upregulated across all three conditions.”

      (6) Are the experiments adequately replicated and statistical analysis adequate?

      Most are adequate and appropriate, some questions remain:

      - Transcriptomes-how many replicates (see above)?

      - IF quantification-how were cells identified/how many sections (see above)?

      Minor: Statistics: methods indicate that a student's t-test was used, but ANOVA's are also used, which is appropriate. There are data presented that should be reevaluated via an ANOVA: Figure 4D, 4N-R; Figure 5G-no stats indicated in figure legend.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for highlighting the inappropriate use of statistical tests in our original submission. We have re-analyzed all data using the ANOVA-based methods as suggested in the specific detail. We confirm that these changes do not alter the overall interpretation of our results but provide a more robust and statistically sound foundation for our conclusions. We changed “Differences were determined by two-tailed independent Student's t-test” to “Statistical significance was determined by one-way ANOVA followed by Tukey's test (C, Q-U, different letters above the error bar indicate statistical differences at P < 0.05) or Student's t-test (D) (*, P < 0.05; **, P < 0.01; NS, no significant difference).”

      In lines 719-721 we added “Statistical significance was determined by one-way ANOVA followed by Tukey's test (E, different letters above the error bar indicate statistical differences at P < 0.05) or Student's t-test (B, H) (*, P < 0.05; **, P < 0.01; NS, no significant difference).” in line 745-747.

      Reviewer #1 (Significance):

      The data presented in this manuscript provides important context towards the connection between the DHH pathway, Sf1, and steroidogenesis.

      The audience would likely include developmental biologists, including those related to differentiation of any hormone producing cell type and especially those focused on steroidogenesis onset. Clinical interests will be related to sex determination and differentiation, especially related to male sex phenotype differentiation. Basic scientists will be especially interested.

      Expertise: mouse fetal testis differentiation and maturation, steroidogenesis, hedgehog, sf1. Good fit except for the animal model, but they are surprisingly similar.

      Reviewer #2 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

      In this work, Zhao et al., investigated the role of Dhh signaling pathway in the proliferation and differentiation of leydig lineage cells in the testes of Nile tilapia, an economic important farmed fish. By generating dhh mutants, the authors showed that loss of Dhh in tilapia recapitulated mammalian phenotypes, characterized by testicular hypoplasia and androgen insufficiency. A previous established TSL line was used to rescue the deficits in dhh-/- testes, which demonstrated that Dhh regulates the differentiation of SLCs rather than their survival. By generating mutant TSL lines, the authors aimed to identify the downstream players under Dhh in tilapia. Based on the data, the authors propose that a dhh-ptch2-gli1-sf1 axis exists in leydig cell lineage development.

      How secreted dhh from Sertoli cells affect the Leydig cells remains elusive. While previous studies have revealed the paracrine role of Sertoli cell secreted Dhh in the regulation of Leydig cell development and maturation, the authors provided some new insights into the issue using tilapia as a model. Unfortunately, this work is not well performed, and the conclusions are not well supported by the current data. And to reach logic conclusions, more meaningful experiments should be performed, and more convincing data should be provided.

      Strength:

      The authors used genetic mutants, TSL lines, and cell transplantation techniques to address the questions. The manuscript is technically sound, and overall is well-written.

      Limitations:

      Experimental design should be optimized, and more convincing data should be provided to reach solid conclusion.

      (1) The SLCs (stem leydig cells) used in this work. The SLC line was established from 3-month-old immature XY tilapia. The authors claimed that this line is a SLC line only because they express a few Leydig markers such as pdgfra and nestin. However, in my opinion, the identity of the cell line is not clear. It is suggested to perform more experiments, including flow cytometry assay or single cell RNA sequencing analysis, to further characterize this line, to demonstrate that this line is a real SLCs that are equivalent to the SLCs in 3-month testes of tilapia. According to the previous publication (2020), the information about the line was not well presented.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment regarding the characterization of the TSL cell line. The identity of TSL as a stem Leydig cell line was rigorously established in our previous publication (Huang et al., 2020), which provided comprehensive molecular, in vitro, and in vivo functional evidence that meets the definitive criteria for an SLC. This includes its stable expression of established SLC markers (pdgfrα, nestin, coup-tfii), its capacity to differentiate into steroidogenic cells producing 11-KT in vitro, and most critically, its ability to colonize the testicular interstitium, differentiate into Leydig cells, and restore androgen production upon transplantation in vivo.

      In direct response to the reviewer's point, we have revised the Introduction of our manuscript to provide a more detailed and clear description of the TSL line's origin and validation (lines 95-105) as “Furthermore, a stem Leydig cell line (TSL) has been established from the testis of a 3-month-old Nile tilapia. TSL expresses platelet-derived growth factor receptor α (pdgfrα), nestin, and chicken ovalbumin upstream promoter transcription factor II (coup-flla), which are usually considered as SLC-related markers in several other species. Notably, this cell line exhibits the capacity to differentiate into 11-ketotestosterone (11-KT)-producing Leydig cells both in vitro and in vivo. When cultured in a defined induction medium, TSL cells differentiate into a steroidogenic phenotype, expressing key steroidogenic genes including star1, star2, and cyp11c1, and producing 11-KT; upon transplantation into recipient testes, TSL cells successfully colonize the interstitial compartment, activate the expression of steroidogenic genes, and restore 11-KT production”, ensuring that readers can fully appreciate its well-founded identity as a SLC model without needing to consult the original publication. We are confident that the existing body of evidence solidly supports all conclusions drawn from its use in this study.

      (2) How loss of dhh affects testicular and the leydig cell lineage development are not clearly investigated. In the current manuscript, the characterization of dhh mutant was not enough and lack of in-depth investigation. The authors primarily looked at testes at 90 dph when Leydig cell lineage was well developed. In my opinion, this time was too late. To investigate the earlier events that are affected by loss of dhh, I suggested to perform experiments at earlier time points, in particular around the initiation stages of the sex differentiation and Lyedig cell specification/maturation.

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful comment. We agree that a thorough developmental analysis is crucial. In response to this point, we have now performed an in-depth investigation at earlier stages to precisely define the phenotype onset.

      Our revised manuscript includes new data from a developmental time-course analysis. While our initial characterization included 5, 10, and 20 dah, we now identified 30 dah as the critical window for Leydig cell differentiation onset, which was also supported by prior work (Zheng et al.). Our new immunofluorescence data at 30 dah now clearly show that Cyp11c1-positive cells are present in wild-type testes but are entirely absent in dhh<sup>-/-</sup> mutants (Fig. S7). This finding pinpoints the initial failure of SLC differentiation.

      We have integrated this key finding into the Discussion (lines 234-239) as “To define the onset of Leydig cell differentiation, we performed a developmental time-course analysis. This revealed that Cyp11c1-positive steroidogenic cells first appear in wild-type testes at 30 dah, while being conspicuously absent in dhh<sup>-/-</sup> mutants at this same stage (Fig. S7). This clear temporal pattern establishes ~30 dah as the developmental window when SLCs initiate their differentiation program in the Nile tilapia.”

      Concurrently, our analysis of the 90 dah timepoint remains vital, as it represents a mature stage with robust spermatogenesis and a stabilized somatic niche. This allows for a comprehensive assessment of the ultimate functional consequences of the early differentiation block, including its impact on germ cell support and overall testicular architecture.

      Thus, our study now provides a complete developmental perspective: the 30 dah timepoint identifies the initiation of the Dhh-dependent defect, while the 90-dah analysis reveals the mature, functional outcomes within the intact testicular niche.

      (3) The authors claimed that there was a ptch2-gli1-sf1 axis. The conclusion was drawn largely based on data that generated from the in vitro cultured TSL line. More data from genetic mutant tilapia are required to support the conclusion.

      We thank the reviewer’s insightful comments regarding the need for robust in vivo validation. In fact, our conclusion of a Dhh-Ptch2-Gli1-Sf1 axis is supported by an integrated experimental strategy, combining key in vivo evidence with targeted in vitro analyses to build a coherent model.

      (1) Evidence for Ptch2 as the key receptor: The role of Ptch2 is supported by a pivotal in vivo genetic experiment. The observation that the dhh<sup>-/-</sup> testicular phenotype is fully rescued in dhh<sup>-/-</sup>;ptch2<sup>-/-</sup> double mutants provides compelling genetic evidence that Ptch2 is the essential receptor for Dhh in vivo (Fig. 4E-U). We acknowledge that the early embryonic lethality of global ptch1 mutation precludes its functional analysis in postnatal testis development. Therefore, while our data strongly nominate Ptch2 as the principal receptor, we have qualified our conclusions in the revised manuscript to reflect that a role for Ptch1 cannot be definitively excluded without Leydig cell-specific conditional knockout models.

      (2) Evidence for Gli1 and its regulation of Sf1: The role of Gli1 as the key transcriptional effector was efficiently identified using our well-characterized TSL system, a valid approach for dissecting this highly conserved signaling cascade. The functional connection between Gli1 and Sf1 is supported by multiple lines of evidence: transcriptomic profiling, promoter analysis, luciferase reporter assays (including a new cold probe competition experiment), and most importantly, in vivo functional validation via SLC transplantation. The latter demonstrated that Sf1 is both necessary and sufficient for SLC differentiation within the testicular niche (Fig. 5).

      In direct response to the reviewer's points, we have thoroughly revised the manuscript text to ensure all claims are accurately stated, particularly regarding the receptor specificity and the nature of the Gli1-Sf1 regulatory relationship. We believe our study provides a solid foundation for the proposed signaling axis.

      Overall, better experimental design should be planned, including the rescue experiments. Some key information was missed. For instance, the identity of the stem Leydig cells was not clearly presented.

      We have explained it in point #1.

      Figures:

      Figure 1: The authors described the phenotypes at 90 dph. Loss of dhh led to severe phenotypes in testicular formation, as evidenced by defective formation of Vasa, a germline stem cell marker; loss of expression of cyp11c1, a leydig cell marker; and loss of sycp3, a marker of meiosis of spermatogonia.

      However, in my opinion, 90 dph was too late. To investigate the role of dhh in Leydig cell lineage, the authors are suggested to focus on earlier developmental stages when the sex differentiation and maturation of leydig cells occur. This work is actually a development biology one that investigates how dhh loss in Sertoli cells affects the development of Leydig cells. The careful characterization of earliest testicular phenotypes of dhh mutant is very important.

      We have explained it in point #2.

      Figure 2: Please clarify the logic for performing rescue experiments using 11-KT. Provided the critical role of 11-KT in the testis development and spermatogenesis, it was not unexpected that 11-KT treatment can rescue most of the cell types in testes. If dhh is absolutely required for LC lineage development maturation, adding 11-KT at 30 dph will not have an effect. Why not perform rescue experiments using Dhh protein?

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful comment, which allows us to clarify the logical progression of our experimental design, a process central to genetic discovery.

      When we first characterized the dhh<sup>-/-</sup> mutant, we observed a complex suite of phenotypes: testicular hypoplasia, arrested germ cell development, a profound deficiency of Leydig cells, and drastically low androgen levels. A primary challenge was to distinguish which defects were direct consequences of losing Dhh signaling and which were secondary effects of the overall testicular failure.

      We therefore employed a classic genetic strategy: phenotypic dissection through targeted rescue. The 11-KT rescue experiment was designed to test a foundational hypothesis: Are the severe testicular defects in dhh<sup>-/-</sup> mutants primarily a consequence of the systemic androgen deficiency? The results provided a pivotal and clear answer: while 11-KT treatment partially rescued germ cell development and testicular structure, it completely failed to restore the population of Cyp11c1-positive Leydig cells. This critical finding allowed us to dissociate the phenotypes, demonstrating that the Leydig cell defect is a primary, cell-autonomous consequence of Dhh loss, not a secondary effect of low androgen.

      This conclusion logically propelled the next phase of our research: to shift focus from systemic hormone action to the local, niche role of Dhh in regulating the Leydig lineage directly. This led directly to the TSL transplantation experiments and the mechanistic dissection of the Ptch2-Gli1-Sf1 axis within SLCs.

      Regarding the use of Dhh protein, we agree it is a complementary approach. However, producing biologically active, recombinant Hedgehog ligand is challenging due to its essential dual lipid modification, which is required for solubility and activity. Our transplantation experiments with TSL-OnDhh cells (Fig. 3) functionally demonstrate that providing Dhh signaling in a cell-autonomous manner is sufficient to rescue differentiation, thereby directly addressing the core question without the need for recombinant protein.

      Figure 3. The authors showed that in dhh-/- testes, TSL engrafted equivalently but failed to express Cyp11c1. This result was strange which raised a question about the identity of the TSLs, as I have mentioned above. The authors claimed that the TSLs are stem Leydig cells, which I doubt. Additional data should provided to support the statement.

      In the testicular environment, the transplanted TSLs should be able to colonize and differentiate into more mature leydig cells. Only a small portion of the PKH26-labled TSLs became Cyp11c1 positive after transplantation, can the authors comment this observation?

      To address "Mutation of dhh blocks SLC differentiation", the authors should first carefully examine the TSL lineage development using dhh mutant. Then, investigate how loss of dhh disrupts the cross talk between Sertoli cells and Leydig cells. why bother performing transplanted TSLs? Please clarify. Why not perform rescue experiments using Dhh protein at appropriate developmental stages?

      We thank the reviewer for these comments, which allow us to clarify the rationale and interpretation of our key experiments.

      (1) We have provided comprehensive evidence establishing the TSL line as a SLC line (Response to Point #1). The observation that WT TSL cells engraft but fail to differentiate in the dhh<sup>-/-</sup> testicular environment is not strange; it is, in fact, the core and most crucial finding of this experiment. It provides direct functional evidence that the dhh<sup>-/-</sup> niche lacks the essential signals required to initiate SLC differentiation, consistent with the severe deficiency of endogenous Cyp11c1<sup>+</sup> cells in these mutants (Fig. 1I-J', N).

      (2) The reviewer's concern about "only a small portion" of cells differentiating is based on a misunderstanding. Our quantitative data (Fig. 3F) show that approximately 78% of the transplanted PKH26+ TSL cells successfully differentiated into Cyp11c1<sup>+</sup> cells in WT hosts. This high efficiency robustly demonstrates the differentiation potential of TSL cells and the permissiveness of the WT niche. The near-zero differentiation rate in the dhh<sup>-/-</sup> host (Fig. 3F) starkly highlights the specific and severe defect in the mutant microenvironment.

      (3) The TSL transplantation experiment was the most direct strategy to test why Cyp11c1<sup>+</sup> cells are absent in dhh<sup>-/-</sup> testes. It allowed us to distinguish between a failure in SLC differentiation and other possibilities (e.g., cell death). The finding that functional SLCs cannot differentiate in the mutant niche logically directed our subsequent focus onto the cell-intrinsic molecular mechanism (the Ptch2-Gli1-Sf1 axis) within the Leydig lineage. While Sertoli-Leydig crosstalk is an important area, it was beyond the scope of this study aimed at defining the intrinsic differentiation pathway.

      (4) Regarding Dhh protein rescue, generating bioactive, lipid-modified recombinant Hh protein is technically challenging. Our transplantation of TSL-OnDhh cells (Fig. 3) functionally demonstrates that providing Dhh signaling in a cell-autonomous manner is sufficient to rescue differentiation, effectively addressing this question without the need for recombinant protein.

      Figure S3. “To assess whether dhh mutation affects androgen-producing cells outside Leydig cells, 11-KT levels were analyzed during early testicular development before SLCs differentiation. IF analyses revealed that no Cyp11c1 positive cells were present in the testes of XY WT fish at 5, 10, and 20 dah, indicating that SLCs had not yet differentiated at these stages (Fig. S3A-C). Tissue fluid 11-KT levels showed no significant differences between WT and dhh-/- XY fish at 5, 10, and 20 dah (Fig. S3D)”. These observations suggested that loss of dhh does not affect the specification of SLCs, but affect its differentiation into mature LCs. The differentiation of Cyp11c1 should be later than 20 dah. So when is the earliest time point for formation of Cyp11c1 positive cells, and how loss of dhh affect this? These are important questions to answer.

      We agree with the reviewer's interpretation that our data suggest dhh loss affects SLC differentiation rather than initial specification. In direct response to the need for earlier timepoints, we have now performed and included an analysis at 30 dah, which we identified as the critical window for Leydig cell differentiation onset. Our new data (Fig. S7) show that Cyp11c1+ cells are present in WT testes but are entirely absent in dhh<sup>-/-</sup> mutants at this stage. This precisely pinpoints the initiation of the phenotypic divergence and establishes ~30 dah as the developmental window when Dhh signaling is required to drive SLC differentiation. Our study therefore now provides a complete developmental perspective, from the initial failure at 30 dah to the mature functional outcomes at 90 dah.

      Figure 4. The authors generated ptch1/2 mutant TSL lines, and luciferase assay was performed, and based on the results, the authors concluded that Ptch2, but not Ptch1, is specifically required for transducing Dhh signals in TSLs. The conclusion was only based on luciferase assay using TSLs. Whether this was the case in testes at animal level is not clear. Clearly, more genetic experiments, using ptch mutants, should performed to substantiate this.

      The authors stated “Ptch2 acts as the obligate receptor for Dhh signaling during testis development”. If ptch2 is required for TSL lineage, why ptch2-/- testes exhibited no significant differences in testicular histology and Leydig cell (Cyp11c1+) populations and serum 11-KT levels? This contradictory statement need to be addressed.

      We thank the reviewer for these critical comments, which allow us to clarify the logic underlying our conclusions regarding Ptch2.

      (1) In Vivo Genetic Evidence for Ptch2: Our conclusion that Ptch2 is the primary receptor for Dhh is not based solely on the TSL luciferase assays. It is definitively supported by a key in vivo genetic experiment: the complete phenotypic rescue in the dhh<sup>-/-</sup>;ptch2<sup>-/-</sup> double mutants (Fig. 4F-R). In genetic terms, the loss of the receptor (ptch2) suppressing the phenotype caused by the loss of the ligand (dhh) is classic evidence for a ligand-receptor relationship within a linear pathway. This in vivo evidence strongly substantiates Ptch2's role at the animal level. The early embryonic lethality of ptch1 mutants precludes a similar in vivo test for Ptch1 in postnatal testis development.

      (2) Addressing the Apparent Contradiction of the ptch2<sup>-/-</sup> Phenotype: The reviewer raises an excellent point, which stems from the fundamental biology of the Hh pathway as shown in Author response image 1. Ptch receptors are inhibitory. In the absence of ligand, Ptch suppresses pathway activity.

      Author response image 1.

      The canonical Hh signaling pathway. In the dhh<sup>-/-</sup> mutant, the pathway is suppressed due to unopposed Ptch activity, leading to a failure in SLC differentiation. In the ptch2<sup>-/-</sup> mutant, this key inhibitory brake is removed, leading to constitutive activation of the pathway. The fact that ptch2<sup>-/-</sup> testes are normally indicates that this level of pathway activation is not detrimental and, crucially, is sufficient to support wild-type levels of Leydig cell development and steroidogenesis. This lack of a phenotype in the receptor mutant, contrasted with the severe ligand mutant phenotype, is a common and expected observation in signaling pathways where the receptor acts as a tonic inhibitor.

      In summary, the normal development of ptch2<sup>-/-</sup> testes is not contradictory but is entirely consistent with its role as the inhibitory receptor for Dhh. The severe phenotype in dhh<sup>-/-</sup> mutants and its specific rescue by removing ptch2 provides compelling genetic evidence for their functional relationship. We have revised the text throughout the manuscript to ensure these conclusions are accurately stated.

      Figure 5. The authors generated gli1/2/3 mutant TSL lines, and luciferase assay was performed, and based on the results, the authors concluded that Gli1, but not Gli2/3, was specifically required for transducing Dhh signals in TSL cells. The conclusion is drawn, only based on luciferase assay using TSLs. Whether this was the case in testes at animal level is not clear. Clearly, more genetic experiments should performed to substantiate this, using the gli mutant fish.

      To identify Gli1-dependent targets in SLCs, the authors compared transcriptomes of TSLWT, Dhh-overexpressing (TSL-OnDhh), Gli1-overexpressing (TSL-OnGli1), and SAG-treated (TSL+ SAG) TSL cells. While this experiments can be used to identify dhh target genes, it is better to use gli mutant cell lines. Since the authors have generate gli1/2/3 mutants, why not using these mutant fish to identify/confirm the Gli targets?

      We thank the reviewer for these comments.

      (1) We acknowledge that Gli1 as the key transcriptional effector is primarily based on our in vitro evidence using the TSL cell line. We have revised the manuscript accordingly to ensure this is stated precisely, avoiding overstatement.

      (2) Concerning the transcriptomic analysis, the reviewer suggests using glis mutant cell lines. While this is a valid approach, our strategy of profiling pathway activation (via Dhh/Gli1 overexpression or SAG treatment) was deliberately chosen to provide a high signal-to-noise ratio for identifying genes that are positively upregulated during the differentiation process. Analyzing loss-of-function mutants under basal conditions can be confounded by potential compensatory mechanisms among the Gli family members, potentially masking the specific transcriptional signature of pathway activation we sought to capture.

      By the way, we have generated gli1/2/3 mutant TSL cell lines for the functional luciferase assays, but we have not generated the corresponding glis mutant fish lines, which would represent a substantial new line of investigation.

      Reviewer #2 (Significance):

      While previous studies have revealed the paracrine role of Sertoli cell secreted Dhh in the regulation of Leydig cell development and maturation, the authors provided some new insights into the issue using tilapia as a model.

      Reviewer #3 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

      Summary

      The authors investigate the Dhh signaling pathway in Leydig cell differentiation in the tilapia model. They generated multiple mutant lines in different hedgehog pathway components and utilized a Leydig stem cell line to interrogate Leydig cell differentiation. Through this analysis, the authors demonstrate that Dhh regulates Leydig differentiation rather than survival. They also found that Ptch2 is the specific receptor that mediates signaling to promote Leydig differentiation and that Gli1 is the primary Gli involved. Furthermore, they show that a known regulator of Leydig cell development and function, SF1, is a downstream transcriptional target. Overall, the study identifies previously unknown information as to how Dhh signaling regulates Leydig cell development, which is necessary for testosterone production by the testis.

      Major Comments

      (1) In the RNAseq analysis is not clear exactly how the 33 "up-regulated" genes were identified. What was the methodology for identification of these genes? Some of the genes were down-regulated or not different in the OnGli condition and some in the OnDhh condition were not differentially expressed, as shown in Fig S8B. Therefore, it is unclear why all 33 genes are classified as upregulated "across all three conditions".

      We have clarified this methodology in the Materials and Methods section in line 452-454: “Differentially expressed genes (DEGs) were identified for each condition (TSL-OnDhh, TSL-OnGli1, TSL+SAG) compared to TSL-WT controls using edgeR (threshold: FDR < 0.05, |log2(foldchange)| ≥ 1.5). And we Added relevant information in the Results section in line 198-202: we performed transcriptomic profiling of TSL cells under conditions of pathway activation: Dhh overexpression (TSL-OnDhh), Gli1 overexpression (TSL-OnGli1), and SAG treatment (TSL+SAG). Comparative RNA-seq analysis identified a core set of 33 genes consistently upregulated across all three conditions (Fig. 5C, S6A).”

      We have also updated Fig. S8B to include a clear value and to better visualize the FPKM value levels of these 33 genes across the conditions.

      (2) In figure 4A (and possibly B), it appears that ptch RNA is in the nucleus of the cell. Why would the RNA be primarily in the nucleus? Is the RNA detection accurate? Were controls done? The methods state that sense probes were made but no how they compared to the antisense probes. This comment can also be applied to the gli FISH, particularly gli3 (Figure 5).

      This is an excellent observation. We speculate that the apparent nuclear signal may be due to strong transcriptional activity in the nucleus. To confirm the specificity of our FISH experiment, we performed FISH with sense RNA probes as negative controls for all genes (ptch1, ptch2, gli1, gli2, gli3), and no specific signals were observed (see New Fig. S9).

      Minor comments

      (1) In the introduction, please include information as to when tilapia reach sexual maturity

      We have added this information to the Introduction in line 91-92: early sexual maturity (approximately 3 months after hatching for males and 6 months after hatching for females).

      (2) When first mentioning experiments that use the PKH26 dye, please give a brief description of the dye in the text of the results. This is described in the methods but it would be helpful to have some information about what PKH26 is in the results to more easily understand the figure and experimental design.

      We have added a brief description in the Results section in line 151-152: “To dissect Leydig cell lineage impairment in dhh<sup>-/-</sup> testes, we transplanted the TSL labeled with PKH26 (a fluorescent red hydrophobic membrane dye that enables tracking of transplanted cells) into WT and dhh<sup>-/-</sup> testes (Fig. 3A).”

      (3) In the statistical analysis section of the methods, the authors state that two-tailed t-tests were performed however in the figure legends it states that ANOVA was done for some of the statistical analysis. Please clarify this.

      We have updated the Statistical Analyses section in Methods to clarify in line 472-476: “A two-tailed independent Student’s t-test was used to determine the differences between the two groups. One-way ANOVA, followed by Tukey multiple comparison, was used to determine the significance of differences in more than two groups. P < 0.05 was used as a threshold for statistically significant differences.”

      (4) Figures - in figures that have charts with the Y-axis labeled as "relative positive cells", or similar, please explain what exactly is meant by "relative". What is it relative to?

      We have revised all relevant Y-axis labels and figure legends to explicitly state the quantification method. For example, we now use: "Vasa<sup>+</sup> / DAPI<sup>+</sup> (%), Sycp3<sup>+</sup> / DAPI<sup>+</sup> (%) or Cyp11c1<sup>+</sup> / DAPI<sup>+</sup> (%).

      (5) Figure 1: please point out the testes in panels A and B

      We have indicated the position of the testes with arrows in Figures 1A and B.

      (6) In figure 4, it would be helpful for the WT images from S7 moved to fig 4.

      We have moved representative WT images from Fig. S7 into Fig. 4 for easier comparison with the mutant phenotypes.

      (7) Figure 4E: Are the yellow bars comparable to each other. Is there any significance to the increased luciferase with 8xGli in ptch2-/- as compared to the other genotypes?

      We thank the reviewer for this astute observation. Yes, the yellow bars are directly comparable, and the elevated basal luciferase activity of the 8xGli reporter in the ptch2<sup>-/-</sup> TSL cells is indeed significant and expected. The genetic ablation of ptch2 removes this inhibition, leading to ligand-independent, constitutive activation of the downstream signaling cascade. The observed increase in basal reporter activity in the ptch2<sup>-/-</sup> cells is a classic manifestation of this mechanism.

      The primary objective of this experiment was to test the cells' responsiveness to Dhh stimulation across genotypes. The key finding is that while wild-type and ptch1<sup>-/-</sup> cells showed a significant response to Dhh, the ptch2<sup>-/-</sup> cells-which already exhibited high basal activity-were completely unresponsive. This combination of constitutive activation and ligand insensitivity in the ptch2<sup>-/-</sup> genotype provides particularly strong genetic evidence that Ptch2 is the essential receptor mediating Dhh signal transduction in this system.

      (8) Figure 5G: please include what exactly what each construct name stands for in the figure legend

      We have expanded the legend for Fig. 5G to define each construct.

      (9) Figure S8B: please include what the values in the table are (eg are these the significance values?)

      We have updated the caption for Figure S8B (now Figure S6B): “The FPKM value for each gene in each sample is indicated within the squares. The color gradient from blue to red reflects low to high expression levels per row (gene).”

      Reviewer #3 (Significance):

      Strengths and limitations:

      The genetics of the tilapia system and the availability of the tilapia Leydig stem cell lines were particular strengths of this study. The study utilizes fish genetics to genetically interrogate the Dhh signaling pathway in Leydig cell development through generation and analysis of mutant lines. The tilapia Leydig stem cell line was an integral part of this study as it allowed for genetic and chemical manipulation of Dhh signaling in undifferentiated Leydig cells and, through transplantation into testes, allowed for analysis of how Leydig cell differentiation was affected.

      Advance:

      The study makes significant advances as to how Dhh signaling instructs Leydig cell differentiation, including identification of the Ptch receptor and Gli transcription factor that function downstream of Dhh in this process. Furthermore, they identify a direct link between Dhh signaling and Sf1 expression, which is known to important for Leydig cell function.

      Audience:

      This study will be of particular interest to reproductive biologists, endocrinologists, and developmental biologists. The study may also be of interest to researchers and physicians investigating cancers that are promoted by androgens produced by Leydig cells of the testis.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This paper aims to characterize the relationship between affinity and fitness in the process of affinity maturation. To this end, the authors develop a model of germinal center reaction and a tailored statistical approach, building on recent advances in simulation-based inference. The potential impact of this work is hindered by the poor organization of the manuscript. In crucial sections, the writing style and notations are unclear and difficult to follow.

      We thank the reviewer for their kind words, and have endeavored to address all of their concerns as to the structure and style of the manuscript.

      Strengths:

      The model provides a framework for linking affinity measurements and sequence evolution and does so while accounting for the stochasticity inherent to the germinal center reaction. The model's sophistication comes at the cost of numerous parameters and leads to intractable likelihood, which are the primary challenges addressed by the authors. The approach to inference is innovative and relies on training a neural network on extensive simulations of trajectories from the model.

      Weaknesses:

      The text is challenging to follow. The descriptions of the model and the inference procedure are fragmented and repetitive. In the introduction and the methods section, the same information is often provided multiple times, at different levels of detail.

      Thank you for pointing this out. We have rearranged the methods in order to make the presentation more linear, and to reduce duplication with the introduction.

      Specifically, we moved the affinity definition to the start, removed the redundant bullet point list, and moved the parameter value table to the end.

      This organization sometimes requires the reader to move back and forth between subsections (there are multiple non-specific references to "above" and "below" in the text).

      This is a great point, we have either removed or replaced all references to "above" or "below" with more specific citations.

      The choice of some parameter values in simulations appears arbitrary and would benefit from more extensive justification. It remains unclear how the "significant uncertainty" associated with these parameters affects the results of inference.

      We have clarified where various parameter values come from:

      “In addition to the four sigmoid parameters, which we infer directly, there are other parameters in Table 1 about which we have incomplete information. The carrying capacity method and the choice of sigmoid for the response function represent fundamental model assumptions. We also fix the death rate for nonfunctional (stop) sequences, which would be very difficult to infer with the present experiment. For others, we know precise values from the replay experiment for each GC (time to sampling, # sampled cells/GC), but use a somewhat wider range for the sake of generalizability. The mutability multiplier is a heuristic factor used to match the SHM distributions to data. The naive birth rate is determined by the sigmoid parameters, but has its own range in order to facilitate efficient simulation.

      For two of the three remaining parameters (carrying capacity and initial population), we can ostensibly choose values based on the replay experiment. These values carry significant uncertainty, however, partly due to inherent experimental uncertainty, but also because they may represent different biological quantities to those in simulation. For instance, an experimental measurement of the number of B cells in a germinal center might appear to correspond closely to simulation carrying capacity. However if germinal centers are not well mixed, such that competition occurs only among nearby cells, the "effective" carrying capacity that each cell experiences could be much smaller.

      Fortunately, in addition to the neural network inference of sigmoid parameters, we have another source of information that we can use to infer non-sigmoid parameters: summary statistic distributions. We can use the matching of these distributions to effectively fit values for these additional unknown parameters. We also include the final parameter, the functional death rate, in these non-sigmoid inferred parameters, although it is unconstrained by the replay experiment, and it is unclear whether it is uniquely identifiable.”

      In addition, the performance of the inference scheme on simulated data is difficult to evaluate, as the reported distributions of loss function values are not very informative.

      We thought of two different interpretions for this comment, so have worked to address both.

      First, the comment could have been that the distribution of loss functions on the training sample does not appear to be informative of performance on data-like samples. This is true, and in our revision we have emphasized the distinction between the two types of simulation sample: those for training, where each simulated GC has different (sampled) parameter values; vs the "data mimic" samples where all GCs have identical parameters. Since the former have different values for each GC, we can only plot many inferred curves together on the latter. We also would like to emphasize that the inference problem for one GC will have much more uncertainty than will that for an ensemble of GCs (as in the full replay experiment).

      “After building and training our neural network, we evaluate its performance on subsets of the training sample. While this evaluation provides an important baseline and sanity check, it is important to note that the training sample differs dramatically from real data (and the “data mimic” simulation sample that mimics real data). While real data consists of 119 GCs with identical parameters and thus response functions, we need the GCs in our training sample to span the space of all plausible parameter values. This means that while we must evaluate performance on individual GCs in the training and testing samples, in real data (and data mimic simulation) we combine results from 119 curves into a central (medoid) curve. Inference on the training sample will thus appear vastly noisier than on real data and data mimic simulation, and also cannot be plotted with all true and inferred curves together.”

      A second interpretation was that the reviewer did not have an intuitive sense of what a loss function value of, say, 1.0 actually means. To address this second interpretation, we have also added a supplement to Figure 2 with several example true and inferred response functions from the training sample, with representative loss values spanning 0.17 to 2.18. We have also added the following clarification to the caption of Figure 1-figure supplement 2:

      “The loss value is thus the fraction of the area under the true curve represented by the area between the true and inferred curves.”

      Finally, the discussion of the similarities and differences with an alternative approach to this inference problem, presented in Dewitt et al. (2025), is incomplete.

      We have expanded this section of the manuscript, and added a new plot directly comparing the methods.

      “In order to compare more directly to DeWitt et al. 2025, we remade their Fig.S6D, truncating to values at which affinities are actually observed in the bulk data, and using only three of the seven timepoints (11, 20, and 70, Figure 8, left). We then simulated 25 GCs with central data mimic parameters out to 70 days. For each such GC, we found the time point with mean affinity over living cells closest to each of three specific “target” affinity values (0.1, 1.0, 2.0) corresponding to the mean affinity of the bulk data at timepoints 11, 20, and 70. We then plot the effective birth rates of all living cells vs relative affinity (subtracting mean affinity) at the resulting GC-specific timepoints for all 25 GCs together Figure 8, right). Note that because each GC evolves at very different and time-dependent rates, we could not simply use the timepoints from the bulk data, since each GC slice from our simulation would then have very different mean affinity. The mean over GCs of these GC-specific chosen times is 10.9, 24.5, 44.4 (compared to the original bulk data time points 11, 20, 70). It is important to note that while the first two target affinities (0.1 and 1.0) are within the affinity ranges encountered in the extracted GC data, the third value (2.0) is far beyond them, and thus represents extrapolation to an affinity regime informed more by our underlying model than by the real data on which we fit it.”

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This paper presents a new approach for explicitly transforming B-cell receptor affinity into evolutionary fitness in the germinal center. It demonstrates the feasibility of using likelihood-free inference to study this problem and demonstrates how effective birth rates appear to vary with affinity in real-world data.

      Strengths:

      (1) The authors leverage the unique data they have generated for a separate project to provide novel insights into a fundamental question. (2) The paper is clearly written, with accessible methods and a straightforward discussion of the limits of this model. (3) Code and data are publicly available and well documented.

      Weaknesses (minor):

      (1) Lines 444-446: I think that "affinity ceiling" and "fitness ceiling" should be considered independent concepts. The former, as the authors ably explain, is a physical limitation. This wouldn't necessarily correspond to a fitness ceiling, though, as Figure 7 shows. Conversely, the model developed here would allow for a fitness ceiling even if the physical limit doesn't exist.

      Right, whoops, good point. We've rearranged the discussion to separate the concepts, for instance:

      “While affinity and fitness ceilings are separate concepts, they are closely related. An affinity ceiling is a limit to affinity for a given antigen: there are no mutations that can improve affinity beyond this level. This would result in a truncated response function, undefined beyond the affinity ceiling. A fitness ceiling, on the other hand, is an upper asymptote on the response function. Such a ceiling would result in a limit on affinity for a germinal center reaction, since once cells are well into the upper asymptote of fitness they are no longer subject to selective pressure.”

      (2) Lines 566-569: I would like to see this caveat fleshed out more and perhaps mentioned earlier in the paper. While relative affinity is far more important, it is not at all clear to me that absolute affinity can be totally ignored in modeling GC behavior.

      This is a great point, we've added a mention of this where we introduce the replay experiment in the Methods:

      “It is important to note that this is a much lower level than typical BCR repertoires, which average roughly 5-10% nucleotide shm.”

      And expanded on the explanation in the Discussion:

      “Some aspects of behavior in the low-shm/early times regime of the extracted GC data are also potentially different to those at the higher shm levels and longer times found in typical repertoires. This is especially relevant to affinity or fitness ceilings, to which we likely have little sensitivity with the current data.”

      (3) One other limitation that is worth mentioning, though beyond the scope of the current work to fully address: the evolution of the repertoire is also strongly shaped by competition from circulating antibodies. (Eg: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3600904/, http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1931312820303978). This is irrelevant for the replay experiment modeled here, but still an important factor in general repertoires.

      Yes good point, we've added these citations in a new paragraph on between-lineage competition:

      “We also neglect competition among lineages stemming from different rearrangement events (different clonal families), instead assuming that each GC is seeded with instances of only a single naive sequence, and that neither cells nor antibodies migrate between different GCs. More realistically for the polyclonal GC case, we would allow lineages stemming from different naive sequences to compete with each other both within and between GCs (Zhang et al. 2013: McNamara et al. 2020; Barbulescu et al. 2025). Implementing competition among several clonal families within a single GC would be conceptually simple and computationally practical in our current software framework. Competition among many GCs, however, would be computationally prohibitive because our time required is primarily determined by the total population size, since at each step we must iterate over every node and every event type in order to find the shortest waiting time. For the monoclonal replay experiment specifically, however, all naive sequences are the same and so the current modeling framework is sufficient.”

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewing Editor Comments:

      The authors are encouraged to follow the suggestions of manuscript re-organization by Reviewer 1, in order to improve readability. We would also like to suggest improving the discussion of the traveling wave model to explain it in a more self-contained way. In passing, please clarify what is meant by 'steady-state' in that model. A superficial understanding would suggest that the only steady state in that model would be a homogeneous population of antibodies with maximum affinity/fitness.

      These are great suggestions. We have substantially rearranged the text according to Reviewer 1's suggestions, especially the Methods, and expanded on and rearranged the traveling wave discussion. We've also clarified throughout that the traveling wave model is assuming steady state with respect to population. In the public response to reviewer 1 above we describe these changes in more detail.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I suggest that the organization of the paper be reconsidered. The current methods section is long and at times repetitive, making it impossible to parse in a single reading. Moving some technical details from the main text to an appendix could improve readability. Despite the length of the methods section, many important points, such as justification of choices in model specification or values of parameters, are treated only briefly.

      We have rearranged the methods section, particularly the discussion of our model, and have more clearly justified choices of parameter values as described in the public response.

      Discussion of similarities and differences with reference to Dewitt et al. 2025 should be revised, as it's currently unclear whether the method presented here has any advantages.

      We have expanded this comparison, and emphasized the main disadvantage of the traveling wave approach: there is no way of knowing whether by abstracting away so much biological detail it misses important effects. We have also emphasized that the two approaches use different types of data (time series vs endpoint) which are typically not simultaneously available:

      “The clear advantage of the traveling wave model is its simplicity: if its high level view is accurate enough to effectively model the relevant GC dynamics, it is far more tractable. But reproducing low-level biological detail, and making high-dimensional real data comparisons (e.g. Figure 5) to iteratively improve model fidelity, are also useful, providing direct evidence that we are correctly modeling the underlying biological processes. The two approaches also utilize different types of data: we use a single time point, and thus must reconstruct evolutionary history; whereas the traveling wave requires a series of timepoints. The availability of both types of data is a unique feature of the replay experiment, and provides us with the opportunity to directly compare the approaches.”

      The results obtained from the same data should be directly compared (can the response function be directly compared to the result in Figure S6D in Dewitt et al., 2025? If yes, it should be re-plotted here and compared/superimposed with Figures 6 and 7). The text mentions the results differ, but it remains ambiguous whether the differences are significant and what their implications are.

      We've added a new Figure 8, comparing a modified version of the traveling wave Fig S6D to a new plot derived from our results using the data mimic parameters. While the two plots represent fundamentally different quantities, they do put the results of the two methods on an approximately equal footing and we see nice concordance between them in regions with significant data (they disagree substantially for larger negative affinities). We have also added emphasis to the point that the traveling wave model uses an entirely separate dataset to what we use here.

      Other comments:

      (1) l. 80: "[in] around 10 days"?

      Text rearranged so this phrase no longer appears.

      (2) l. 96: "an intrinsic rate [given by?] the response function above".

      Text rearranged so this phrase no longer appears.

      (3) Figure 1: The. “specific model” could part be expanded and improved to help make sense of model parameters and the order of different processes in the population model. Example values of parameters can be plotted rather than loosely described, (e.g., y_h+y_c, the upper asymptotes can be plotted in place of the “yscale determines upper asymptotes” label.

      Great suggestion, we've changed the labels.

      (4) The cartoons in the other parts are somewhat cryptic or illegible due to small sizes.

      We have added text in the caption linking to the figures that are, in the figure, intended to be in schematic form only.

      “Plots from elsewhere in the manuscript are rendered in schematic form: those in “infer on data” refer to Figure 4-figure supplement 1, and those in “simulate with inferred parameters” to Figure 5.

      (5) L. 137: It's not helpful to give numerical values before the definition of affinity. (and these numbers are repeated later).

      Good point, we've moved the affinity definition to the previous section, and remove the duplicate range information.

      (6): Table 1: A number of notations are unclear, such as “#seqs/GC” or “mutability multiplier”. The double notation for crucial parameters doesn't help. At the moment the table is introduced, the columns make little sense to the reader, and it's not well specified what dictates the choice or changes of parameter values or ranges.

      We've moved the table further down until after the parameters have been introduced, and clarified the indicated names.

      (7) l. 147: Choices of model are not justified and appear arbitrary (e.g., why death events happen at one of two rate).

      We have clarified the reasoning behind having two death rates.

      (8) l.151: “happened on the edges of developing phylogenetic tree” - ambiguous: do they accumulate at cell divisions? What is a “developing tree”?

      We have removed this ambiguous phrasing.

      (9) l.161: This paragraph is particularly dense.

      We have rearranged this section of the methods, and split up this paragraph.

      (10) l. 164: All the different response functions for different event types? Or only the one for birth, as stated before?

      Yes. This has been clarified.

      (11) l.167: Does the statement in the bracket refer to a unit?

      This has been clarified.

      (12) l. 169: Discussion of the implementation seems too detailed.

      Hopefully the rearranged description is clearer, but we worry that removing the details of events selection would leave some readers confused.

      (13) l. 186: Why describe the methods that, in the end, were not used? Similarly, as a mention of “variety of response functions” seems out of place if only one choice is used throughout the paper. eq. (2): that's mˆ{-1} from eq. (1). Having the two equations using the same notation is confusing.

      We've moved the mention of alternatives to the Discussion, where it is an important source of uncontrolled systematic uncertainty, and removed the extra equation.

      (14) l. 206: Unclear what “thus” refers to.

      Removed.

      (15) l.211: What does “neglecting y_h” mean?

      This has been clarified.

      (16) l. 242: Unclear what “this” refers to.

      Clarified.

      (17) l. 261: What does “model independence” refer to in this context?

      From the sigmoid model. Clarified.

      (18) l. 306: What values for which parameters? References?

      We have clarified and updated this statement - it was out of date, corresponding to the analysis before we started fitting non-sigmoid parameters.

      “In addition to the four sigmoid parameters, which we infer directly, there are other parameters in Table 1 about which we have incomplete information. The carrying capacity method and the choice of sigmoid for the response function represent fundamental model assumptions. We also fix the death rate for nonfunctional (stop) sequences, which would be very difficult to infer with the present experiment. For others, we know precise values from the replay experiment for each GC (time to sampling, # sampled cells/GC), but use a somewhat wider range for the sake of generalizability. The mutability multiplier is a heuristic factor used to match the SHM distributions to data. The naive birth rate is determined by the sigmoid parameters, but has its own range in order to facilitate efficient simulation.

      For two of the three remaining parameters (carrying capacity and initial population), we can ostensibly choose values based on the replay experiment. These values carry significant uncertainty, however, partly due to inherent experimental uncertainty, but also because they may represent different biological quantities to those in simulation. For instance, an experimental measurement of the number of B cells in a germinal center might appear to correspond closely to simulation carrying capacity. However if germinal centers are not well mixed, such that competition occurs only among nearby cells, the "effective" carrying capacity that each cell experiences could be much smaller.

      Fortunately, in addition to the neural network inference of sigmoid parameters, we have another source of information that we can use to infer non-sigmoid parameters: summary statistic distributions. We can use the matching of these distributions to effectively fit values for these additional unknown parameters. We also include the final parameter, the functional death rate, in these non-sigmoid inferred parameters, although it is unconstrained by the replay experiment, and it is unclear whether it is uniquely identifiable.”

      (19) l. 326: "is interpreted as having" or "corresponds to"?

      Changed.

      (20) l. 340: Not sure what "encompassing" means in this context.

      Clarified.

      (21) l. 341: "We do this..." -- I think this sentence is not grammatical.

      Fixed.

      (22) l. 348: "on simulation" -- "from simulated data"?

      Indeed.

      (23) l. 351: "top rows", the figures only have one row.

      Fixed.

      (24) Figure 2: It's difficult to tell from the loss function itself whether inference on simulated data works well. Why not report the simulated and inferred response functions? The equivalent plots in Figure 5 would also be informative. Has inference been tested for different "sigmoid parameters" values?

      This is an important point that was not clear, thanks for bringing it up. We have expanded on and emphasized the differences between these samples and the reasoning behind their different evaluation choices. Briefly, we can't display true vs inferred response functions on the training samples since the curves for each GC are different -- the plot would be entirely filled in with very different response function shapes. This is why we do actual performance evaluation on the "data mimic" samples, where all GCs have the same parameters. Summary stats (like Fig 5) for the training sample are in Fig 5 Supplement 2.

      (25) l. 354: Unclear what "this" refers to.

      Removed.

      (26) l. 355: We assume the parameters are the same?

      Yes, we assume all data GCs have the same parameters. We have added emphasis of this point.

      (27) Figure 4: Is "lambda" the fitness? Should be typeset as \lambda_i?

      Our convention is to add the subscript when evaluating fitness on individual cells, but to omit it, as here, when plotting the response function as a whole.

      (28) l. 412: "[a] carrying capacity constraint".

      Fixed.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) In 2 places, you state that observed affinity ranged from -37 to 3, but I assume that the lower bound should be -3.7.

      The -37 was actually correct, but we had mistakenly missed updating it when we switched to the latest (current) version of the affinity model. We have updated the values, although these don't really have any effect on the model since we only infer within bounds in which we have a lot of points:

      “Affinity is ∅ for the initial unmutated sequence, and ranges from -12.2 to 3.5 in observed sequences, with a mean median of -0.3 (0.3).

      (2). I had to look up the Vols nicker paper to understand the tree encoding: It would be nice to spend another sentence or two on it here for those who aren't familiar.

      Great point, we have added the following:

      “We encode each tree with an approach similar to Lambert et al. (2023) and Thompson et al. (2024), most closely following the compact bijective ladderized vector (CBLV) approach from Voznica et al. (2022). The CBLV method first ladderizes the tree by rotating each subtree such that, roughly speaking, longer branches end up toward the left. This does not modify the tree, but rather allows iteration over nodes in a defined, repeatable way, called inorder iteration. To generate the matrix, we traverse the ladderized tree in order, calculating a distance to associate with each node. For internal nodes, this is the distance to root, whereas for leaf nodes it is the distance to the most-recently-visited internal node (Voznica et al., 2022, Fig. 2). Distances corresponding to leaf nodes are arranged in the first row of the matrix, while those from internal nodes form the second row.”

      (3) On line 351, you refer to the "top rows of Figure 2 and Figure 3," but each only has one row in the current version. I think it should now be "left panel.".

      Fixed.

      (4) How many vertical dashed lines are in the left panel of the bottom row of Figure 7? I think it's more than one, but can't tell if it is two or three...

      Nice catch! There were actually three. We've shortened them and added a white outline to clarify overlapping lines.

      (5) Would the model be applicable to GCs with multiple naive founders of different affinities? Or would more/different parameters be needed to account for that?

      The model would be applicable, but since the time required for our simulation scales roughly with the total simulated population size, we could probably only handle competition among at most a couple of GCs. Some sort of "migration strength" parameter would be required for competition among GCs (or within one GC if we don't want to assume it's well-mixed), but that doesn't seem a terrible impediment. We've added the following:

      “We also neglect competition among lineages stemming from different rearrangement events (different clonal families), instead assuming that each GC is seeded with instances of only a single naive sequence, and that neither cells nor antibodies migrate between different GCs. More realistically for the polyclonal GC case, we would allow lineages stemming from different naive sequences to compete with each other both within and between GCs (Zhang et al. 2013; McNamara et al. 2020; Barbulescu et al. 2025). Implementing competition among several clonal families within a single GC would be conceptually simple and computationally practical in our current software framework. Competition among many GCs, however, would be computationally prohibitive because our time required is primarily determined by the total population size, since at each step we must iterate over every node and every event type in order to find the shortest waiting time. For the monoclonal replay experiment specifically, however, all naive sequences are the same and so the current modeling framework is sufficient.”

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the current reviews.

      I thank the authors for their clarifications. The manuscript is much improved now, in my opinion. The new power spectral density plots and revised Figure 1 are much appreciated. However, there is one remaining point that I am unclear about. In the rebuttal, the authors state the following: "To directly address the question of whether the auditory signal was distracting, we conducted a follow-up MEG experiment. In this study, we observed a significant reduction in visual accuracy during the second block when the distractor was present (see Fig. 7B and Suppl. Fig. 1B), providing clear evidence of a distractor cost under conditions where performance was not saturated." 

      I am very confused by this statement, because both Fig. 7B and Suppl. Fig. 1B show that the visual- (i.e., visual target presented alone) has a lower accuracy and longer reaction time than visual+ (i.e., visual target presented with distractor). In fact, Suppl. Fig. 1B legend states the following: "accuracy: auditory- - auditory+: M = 7.2 %; SD = 7.5; p = .001; t(25) = 4.9; visual- - visual+: M = -7.6%; SD = 10.80; p < .01; t(25) = -3.59; Reaction time: auditory- - auditory +: M = -20.64 ms; SD = 57.6; n.s.: p = .08; t(25) = -1.83; visual- - visual+: M = 60.1 ms ; SD = 58.52; p < .001; t(25) = 5.23)." 

      These statements appear to directly contradict each other. I appreciate that the difficulty of auditory and visual trials in block 2 of MEG experiments are matched, but this does not address the question of whether the distractor was actually distracting (and thus needed to be inhibited by occipital alpha). Please clarify.

      We apologize for mixing up the visual and auditory distractor cost in our rebuttal. The reviewer is right in that our two statements contradict each other.

      To clarify: In the EEG experiment, we see significant distractor cost for auditory distractors in the accuracy (which can be seen in SUPPL Fig. 1A). We also see a faster reaction time with auditory distractors, which may speak to intersensory facilitation. As we used the same distractors for both experiments, it can be assumed that they were distracting in both experiments.

      In our follow-up MEG-experiment, as the reviewer stated, performance in block 2 was higher than in block 1, even though there were distractors present. In this experiment, distractor cost and learning effects are difficult to disentangle. It is possible that participants improved over time for the visual discrimination task in Block 1, as performance at the beginning was quite low. To illustrate this, we divided the trials of each condition into bins of 10 and plotted the mean accuracy in these bins over time (see Author response image 1). Here it can be seen that in Block 2, there is a more or less stable performance over time with a variation < 10 %. In Block 1, both for visual as well as auditory trials, an improvement over time can be seen. This is especially strong for visual trials, which span a difference of > 20%. Note that the mean performance for the 80-90 trial bin was higher than any mean performance observed in Block 2. 

      Additionally, the same paradigm has been applied in previous investigations, which also found distractor costs for the here-used auditory stimuli in blocked and non-blocked designs. See:

      Mazaheri, A., van Schouwenburg, M. R., Dimitrijevic, A., Denys, D., Cools, R., & Jensen, O. (2014). Region-specific modulations in oscillatory alpha activity serve to facilitate processing in the visual and auditory modalities. NeuroImage, 87, 356–362. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.neuroimage.2013.10.052

      Van Diepen, R & Mazaheri, A 2017, 'Cross-sensory modulation of alpha oscillatory activity: suppression, idling and default resource allocation', European Journal of Neuroscience, vol. 45, no. 11, pp. 1431-1438. https://doi.org/10.1111/ejn.13570

      Author response image 1.

      Accuracy development over time in the MEG experiment. During block 1, a performance increase over time can be observed for visual as well as for auditory stimuli. During Block 2, performance is stable over time. Data are presented as mean ± SEM. N = 27 (one participant was excluded from this analysis, as their trial count in at least one condition was below 90 trials).


      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      In this study, Brickwedde et al. leveraged a cross-modal task where visual cues indicated whether upcoming targets required visual or auditory discrimination. Visual and auditory targets were paired with auditory and visual distractors, respectively. The authors found that during the cue-to-target interval, posterior alpha activity increased along with auditory and visual frequency-tagged activity when subjects were anticipating auditory targets. The authors conclude that their results disprove the alpha inhibition hypothesis, and instead implies that alpha "regulates downstream information transfer." However, as I detail below, I do not think the presented data irrefutably disproves the alpha inhibition hypothesis. Moreover, the evidence for the alternative hypothesis of alpha as an orchestrator for downstream signal transmission is weak. Their data serves to refute only the most extreme and physiologically implausible version of the alpha inhibition hypothesis, which assumes that alpha completely disengages the entire brain area, inhibiting all neuronal activity.

      We thank the reviewer for taking the time to provide additional feedback and suggestions and we improved our manuscript accordingly.

      (1) Authors assign specific meanings to specific frequencies (8-12 Hz alpha, 4 Hz intermodulation frequency, 36 Hz visual tagging activity, 40 Hz auditory tagging activity), but the results show that spectral power increases in all of these frequencies towards the end of the cue-to-target interval. This result is consistent with a broadband increase, which could simply be due to additional attention required when anticipating auditory target (since behavioral performance was lower with auditory targets, we can say auditory discrimination was more difficult). To rule this out, authors will need to show a power spectral density curve with specific increases around each frequency band of interest. In addition, it would be more convincing if there was a bump in the alpha band, and distinct bumps for 4 vs 36 vs 40 Hz band.

      This is an interesting point with several aspects, which we will address separately

      Broadband Increase vs. Frequency-Specific Effects:

      The suggestion that the observed spectral power increases may reflect a broadband effect rather than frequency-specific tagging is important. However, Supplementary Figure 11 shows no difference between expecting an auditory or visual target at 44 Hz. This demonstrates that (1) there is no uniform increase across all frequencies, and (2) the separation between our stimulation frequencies was sufficient to allow differentiation using our method.

      Task Difficulty and Performance Differences:

      The reviewer suggests that the observed effects may be due to differences in task difficulty, citing lower performance when anticipating auditory targets in the EEG study. This issue was explicitly addressed in our follow-up MEG study, where stimulus difficulty was calibrated. In the second block—used for analysis—accuracy between auditory and visual targets was matched (see Fig. 7B). The replication of our findings under these controlled conditions directly rules out task difficulty as the sole explanation. This point is clearly presented in the manuscript.

      Power Spectrum Analysis:

      The reviewer’s suggestion that our analysis lacks evidence of frequency-specific effects is addressed directly in the manuscript. While we initially used the Hilbert method to track the time course of power fluctuations, we also included spectral analyses to confirm distinct peaks at the stimulation frequencies. Specifically, when averaging over the alpha cluster, we observed a significant difference at 10 Hz between auditory and visual target expectation, with no significant differences at 36 or 40 Hz in that cluster. Conversely, in the sensor cluster showing significant 36 Hz activity, alpha power did not differ, but both 36 Hz and 40 Hz tagging frequencies showed significant effects These findings clearly demonstrate frequency-specific modulation and are already presented in the manuscript.

      (2) For visual target discrimination, behavioral performance with and without the distractor is not statistically different. Moreover, the reaction time is faster with distractor. Is there any evidence that the added auditory signal was actually distracting?

      We appreciate the reviewer’s observation regarding the lack of a statistically significant difference in behavioral performance for visual target discrimination with and without the auditory distractor. While this was indeed the case in our EEG experiment, we believe the absence of an accuracy effect may be attributable to a ceiling effect, as overall visual performance approached 100%. This high baseline likely masked any subtle influence of the distractor.

      To directly address the question of whether the auditory signal was distracting, we conducted a follow-up MEG experiment. In this study, we observed a significant reduction in visual accuracy during the second block when the distractor was present (see Fig. 7B and Suppl. Fig. 1B), providing clear evidence of a distractor cost under conditions where performance was not saturated.

      Regarding the faster reaction times observed in the presence of the auditory distractor, this phenomenon is consistent with prior findings on intersensory facilitation. Auditory stimuli, which are processed more rapidly than visual stimuli, can enhance response speed to visual targets—even when the auditory input is non-informative or nominally distracting (Nickerson, 1973; Diederich & Colonius, 2008; Salagovic & Leonard, 2021). Thus, while the auditory signal may facilitate motor responses, it can simultaneously impair perceptual accuracy, depending on task demands and baseline performance levels.

      Taken together, our data suggest that the auditory signal does exert a distracting influence, particularly under conditions where visual performance is not at ceiling. The dual effect—facilitated reaction time but reduced accuracy—highlights the complexity of multisensory interactions and underscores the importance of considering both behavioral and neurophysiological measures.

      (3) It is possible that alpha does suppress task-irrelevant stimuli, but only when it is distracting. In other words, perhaps alpha only suppresses distractors that are presented simultaneously with the target. Since the authors did not test this, they cannot irrefutably reject the alpha inhibition hypothesis.

      The reviewer’s claim that we did not test whether alpha suppresses distractors presented simultaneously with the target is incorrect. As stated in the manuscript and supported by our data (see point 2), auditory distractors were indeed presented concurrently with visual targets, and they were demonstrably distracting. Therefore, the scenario the reviewer suggests was not only tested—it forms a core part of our design.

      Furthermore, it was never our intention to irrefutably reject the alpha inhibition hypothesis. Rather, our aim was to revise and expand it. If our phrasing implied otherwise, we have now clarified this in the manuscript. Specifically, we propose that alpha oscillations:

      (a) Exhibit cyclic inhibitory and excitatory dynamics;

      (b) Regulate processing by modulating transfer pathways, which can result in either inhibition or facilitation depending on the network context.

      In our study, we did not observe suppression of distractor transfer, likely due to the engagement of a supramodal system that enhances both auditory and visual excitability. This interpretation is supported by prior findings (e.g., Jacoby et al., 2012), which show increased visual SSEPs under auditory task load, and by Zhigalov et al. (2020), who found no trial-by-trial correlation between alpha power and visual tagging in early visual areas, despite a general association with attention.

      Recent evidence (Clausner et al., 2024; Yang et al., 2024) further supports the notion that alpha oscillations serve multiple functional roles depending on the network involved. These roles include intra- and inter-cortical signal transmission, distractor inhibition, and enhancement of downstream processing (Scheeringa et al., 2012; Bastos et al., 2015; Zumer et al., 2014). We believe the most plausible account is that alpha oscillations support both functions, depending on context.

      To reflect this more clearly, we have updated Figure 1 to present a broader signal-transfer framework for alpha oscillations, beyond the specific scenario tested in this study.

      We have now revised Figure 1 and several sentences in the introduction and discussion, to clarify this argument.

      L35-37: Previous research gave rise to the prominent alpha inhibition hypothesis, which suggests that oscillatory activity in the alpha range (~10 Hz) plays a mechanistic role in selective attention through functional inhibition of irrelevant cortical areas (see Fig. 1; Foxe et al., 1998; Jensen & Mazaheri, 2010; Klimesch et al., 2007).

      L60-65: In contrast, we propose that functional and inhibitory effects of alpha modulation, such as distractor inhibition, are exhibited through blocking or facilitating signal transmission to higher order areas (Peylo et al., 2021; Yang et al., 2023; Zhigalov & Jensen, 2020; Zumer et al., 2014), gating feedforward or feedback communication between sensory areas (see Fig. 1; Bauer et al., 2020; Haegens et al., 2015; Uemura et al., 2021).

      L482-485: This suggests that responsiveness of the visual stream was not inhibited when attention was directed to auditory processing and was not inhibited by occipital alpha activity, which directly contradicts the proposed mechanism behind the alpha inhibition hypothesis.

      L517-519: Top-down cued changes in alpha power have now been widely viewed to play a functional role in directing attention: the processing of irrelevant information is attenuated by increasing alpha power in areas involved with processing this information (Foxe, Simpson, & Ahlfors, 1998; Hanslmayr et al., 2007; Jensen & Mazaheri, 2010).

      L566-569: As such, it is conceivable that alpha oscillations can in some cases inhibit local transmission, while in other cases, depending on network location, connectivity and demand, alpha oscillation can facilitate signal transmission. This mechanism allows to increase transmission of relevant information and to block transmission of distractors.

      (4) In the abstract and Figure 1, the authors claim an alternative function for alpha oscillations; that alpha "orchestrates signal transmission to later stages of the processing stream." In support, the authors cite their result showing that increased alpha activity originating from early visual cortex is related to enhanced visual processing in higher visual areas and association areas. This does not constitute a strong support for the alternative hypothesis. The correlation between posterior alpha power and frequency-tagged activity was not specific in any way; Fig. 10 shows that the correlation appeared on both 1) anticipating-auditory and anticipating-visual trials, 2) the visual tagged frequency and the auditory tagged activity, and 3) was not specific to the visual processing stream. Thus, the data is more parsimonious with a correlation than a causal relationship between posterior alpha and visual processing.

      Again, the reviewer raises important points, which we want to address

      The correlation between posterior alpha power and frequency-tagged activity was not specific, as it is present both when auditory and visual targets are expected:

      If there is a connection between posterior alpha activity and higher-order visual information transfer, then it can be expected that this relationship remains across conditions and that a higher alpha activity is accompanied by higher frequency-tagged activity, both over trials and over conditions. However, it is possible that when alpha activity is lower, such as when expecting a visual target, the signal-to-noise ratio is affected, which may lead to higher difficulty to find a correlation effect in the data when using non-invasive measurements.

      The connection between alpha activity and frequency-tagged activity appears both for auditory as well as visual stimuli and The correlation is not specific to the visual processing stream:

      While we do see differences between conditions (e.g. in the EEG-analysis, mostly 36 Hz correlated with alpha activity and only in one condition 40 Hz showed a correlation as well), it is true that in our MEG analysis, we found correlations both between alpha activity and 36 Hz as well as alpha activity and 40 Hz.  

      We acknowledge that when analysing frequency-tagged activity on a trial-by-trial basis, where removal of non-timelocked activity through averaging (which we did when we tested for condition differences in Fig. 4 and 9) is not possible, there is uncertainty in the data. Baseline-correction can alleviate this issue, but it cannot offset the possibility of non-specific effects. We therefore decided to repeat the analysis with a fast-fourier calculated power instead of the Hilbert power, in favour of a higher and stricter frequency-resolution, as we averaged over a time-period and thus, the time-domain was not relevant for this analysis. In this more conservative analysis, we can see that only 36 Hz tagged activity when expecting an auditory target correlated with early visual alpha activity.

      Additionally, we added correlation analyses between alpha activity and frequency-tagged activity within early visual areas, using the sensor cluster which showed significant condition differences in alpha activity. Here, no correlations between frequency-tagged activity and alpha activity could be found (apart from a small correlation with 40 Hz which could not be confirmed by a median split; see SUPPL Fig. 14 C). The absence of a significant correlation between early visual alpha and frequency-tagged activity has previously been described by others (Zhigalov & Jensen, 2020) and a Bayes factor of below 1 also indicated that the alternative hypotheses is unlikely.

      Nonetheless, a correlation with auditory signal is possible and could be explained in different ways. For example, it could be that very early auditory feedback in early visual cortex (see for example Brang et al., 2022) is transmitted alongside visual information to higher-order areas. Several studies have shown that alpha activity and visual as well as auditory processing are closely linked together (Bauer et al., 2020; Popov et al., 2023). Inference on whether or how this link could play out in the case of this manuscript expands beyond the scope of this study.

      To summarize, we believe the fact that 36 Hz activity within early visual areas does not correlate with alpha activity on a trial-by-trial basis, but that 36 Hz activity in other areas does, provides strong evidence that alpha activity affects down-stream signal processing.

      We mention this analysis now in our discussion:

      L533-536: Our data provides evidence in favour of this view, as we can show that early sensory alpha activity does not covary over trials with SSEP magnitude in early visual areas, but covaries instead over trials with SSEP magnitude in higher order sensory areas (see also SUPPL. Fig. 14).

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The evidence for the alternative hypothesis, that alpha in early sensory areas orchestrates downstream signal transmission, is not strong enough to be described up front in the abstract and Figure 1. I would leave it in the Discussion section, but advise against mentioning it in the abstract and Figure 1.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s concern regarding the inclusion of the alternative hypothesis—that alpha activity in early sensory areas orchestrates downstream signal transmission—in the abstract and Figure 1. While we agree that this interpretation is still developing, recent studies (Keitel et al., 2025; Clausner et al., 2024; Yang et al., 2024) provide growing support for this framework.

      In response, we have revised the introduction, discussion, and Figure 1 to clarify that our intention is not to outright dismiss the alpha inhibition hypothesis, but to refine and expand it in light of new data. This revision does not invalidate the prior literature on alpha timing and inhibition; rather, it proposes an updated mechanism that may better account for observed effects.

      We have though retained Figure 1, as it visually contextualizes the broader theoretical landscape. while at the same time added further analyses to strengthen our empirical support for this emerging view.

      References:

      Bastos, A. M., Litvak, V., Moran, R., Bosman, C. A., Fries, P., & Friston, K. J. (2015). A DCM study of spectral asymmetries in feedforward and feedback connections between visual areas V1 and V4 in the monkey. NeuroImage, 108, 460–475. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.neuroimage.2014.12.081

      Bauer, A. R., Debener, S., & Nobre, A. C. (2020). Synchronisation of Neural Oscillations and Cross-modal Influences. Trends in cognitive sciences, 24(6), 481–495. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.tics.2020.03.003

      Brang, D., Plass, J., Sherman, A., Stacey, W. C., Wasade, V. S., Grabowecky, M., Ahn, E., Towle, V. L., Tao, J. X., Wu, S., Issa, N. P., & Suzuki, S. (2022). Visual cortex responds to sound onset and offset during passive listening. Journal of neurophysiology, 127(6), 1547–1563. https://doi.org/10.1152/jn.00164.2021

      Clausner T., Marques J., Scheeringa R. & Bonnefond M (2024). Feature specific neuronal oscillations in cortical layers BioRxiv :2024.07.31.605816. https://doi.org/10.1101/2024.07.31.605816

      Diederich, A., & Colonius, H. (2008). When a high-intensity "distractor" is better then a low-intensity one: modeling the effect of an auditory or tactile nontarget stimulus on visual saccadic reaction time. Brain research, 1242, 219–230. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.brainres.2008.05.081

      Haegens, S., Nácher, V., Luna, R., Romo, R., & Jensen, O. (2011). α-Oscillations in the monkey sensorimotor network influence discrimination performance by rhythmical inhibition of neuronal spiking. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, 108(48), 19377–19382. https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.1117190108

      Jacoby, O., Hall, S. E., & Mattingley, J. B. (2012). A crossmodal crossover: opposite effects of visual and auditory perceptual load on steady-state evoked potentials to irrelevant visual stimuli. NeuroImage, 61(4), 1050–1058. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.neuroimage.2012.03.040

      Keitel, A., Keitel, C., Alavash, M., Bakardjian, K., Benwell, C. S. Y., Bouton, S., Busch, N. A., Criscuolo, A., Doelling, K. B., Dugue, L., Grabot, L., Gross, J., Hanslmayr, S., Klatt, L.-I., Kluger, D. S., Learmonth, G., London, R. E., Lubinus, C., Martin, A. E., … Kotz, S. A. (2025). Brain rhythms in cognition – controversies and future directions. ArXiv. https://doi.org/10.48550/arXiv.2507.15639

      Nickerson R. S. (1973). Intersensory facilitation of reaction time: energy summation or preparation enhancement?. Psychological review, 80(6), 489–509. https://doi.org/10.1037/h0035437

      Popov, T., Gips, B., Weisz, N., & Jensen, O. (2023). Brain areas associated with visual spatial attention display topographic organization during auditory spatial attention. Cerebral cortex (New York, N.Y. : 1991), 33(7), 3478–3489. https://doi.org/10.1093/cercor/bhac285

      Salagovic, C. A., & Leonard, C. J. (2021). A nonspatial sound modulates processing of visual distractors in a flanker task. Attention, perception & psychophysics, 83(2), 800–809. https://doi.org/10.3758/s13414-020-02161-5

      Scheeringa, R., Petersson, K. M., Kleinschmidt, A., Jensen, O., & Bastiaansen, M. C. (2012). EEG α power modulation of fMRI resting-state connectivity. Brain connectivity, 2(5), 254–264. https://doi.org/10.1089/brain.2012.0088

      Spaak, E., Bonnefond, M., Maier, A., Leopold, D. A., & Jensen, O. (2012). Layer-specific entrainment of γ-band neural activity by the α rhythm in monkey visual cortex. Current biology : CB, 22(24), 2313–2318. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2012.10.020

      Yang, X., Fiebelkorn, I. C., Jensen, O., Knight, R. T., & Kastner, S. (2024). Differential neural mechanisms underlie cortical gating of visual spatial attention mediated by alpha-band oscillations. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, 121(45), e2313304121. https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2313304121

      Zhigalov, A., & Jensen, O. (2020). Alpha oscillations do not implement gain control in early visual cortex but rather gating in parieto-occipital regions. Human brain mapping, 41(18), 5176–5186. https://doi.org/10.1002/hbm.25183

      Zumer, J. M., Scheeringa, R., Schoffelen, J. M., Norris, D. G., & Jensen, O. (2014). Occipital alpha activity during stimulus processing gates the information flow to object-selective cortex. PLoS biology, 12(10), e1001965. https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pbio.1001965

    1. Author response:

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      In their paper, Zhan et al. have used Pf genetic data from simulated data and Ghanaian field samples to elucidate a relationship between multiplicity of infection (MOI) (the number of distinct parasite clones in a single host infection) and force of infection (FOI). Specifically, they use sequencing data from the var genes of Pf along with Bayesian modeling to estimate MOI individual infections and use these values along with methods from queueing theory that rely on various assumptions to estimate FOI. They compare these estimates to known FOIs in a simulated scenario and describe the relationship between these estimated FOI values and another commonly used metric of transmission EIR (entomological inoculation rate).

      This approach does fill an important gap in malaria epidemiology, namely estimating the force of infection, which is currently complicated by several factors including superinfection, unknown duration of infection, and highly genetically diverse parasite populations. The authors use a new approach borrowing from other fields of statistics and modeling and make extensive efforts to evaluate their approach under a range of realistic sampling scenarios. However, the write-up would greatly benefit from added clarity both in the description of methods and in the presentation of the results. Without these clarifications, rigorously evaluating whether the author's proposed method of estimating FOI is sound remains difficult. Additionally, there are several limitations that call into question the stated generalizability of this method that should at minimum be further discussed by authors and in some cases require a more thorough evaluation.

      Major comments:

      (1) Description and evaluation of FOI estimation procedure.

      a. The methods section describing the two-moment approximation and accompanying appendix is lacking several important details. Equations on lines 891 and 892 are only a small part of the equations in Choi et al. and do not adequately describe the procedure notably several quantities in those equations are never defined some of them are important to understand the method (e.g. A, S as the main random variables for inter-arrival times and service times, aR and bR which are the known time average quantities, and these also rely on the squared coefficient of variation of the random variable which is also never introduced in the paper). Without going back to the Choi paper to understand these quantities, and to understand the assumptions of this method it was not possible to follow how this works in the paper. At a minimum, all variables used in the equations should be clearly defined. 

      We thank the reviewer for this useful comment. We plan to clarify the method, including all the relevant variables in our revised manuscript. The reviewer is correct in pointing out that there are more sections and equations in Choi et al., including the derivation of an exact expression for the steady-state queue-length distribution and the two-moment approximation for the queue-length distribution. Since only the latter was directly utilized in our work, we included in the first version of our manuscript only material on this section and not the other. We agree with the reviewer on readers benefiting from additional information on the derivation of the exact expression for the steady-state queue-length distribution. Therefore, we will summarize the derivation of this expression in our revised manuscript. Regarding the assumptions of the method we applied, especially those for going from the exact expression to the two-moment approximation, we did describe these in the Materials and Methods of our manuscript. We recognize from this comment that the writing and organization of this information may not have been sufficiently clear. We had separated the information on this method into two parts, with the descriptive summary placed in the Materials and Methods and the equations or mathematical formula placed in the Appendix. This can make it difficult for readers to connect the two parts and remember what was introduced earlier in the Materials and Methods when reading the equations and mathematical details in the Appendix. For our revised manuscript, we plan to cover both parts in the Materials and Methods, and to provide more of the technical details in one place, which will be easier to understand and follow.

      b. Additionally, the description in the main text of how the queueing procedure can be used to describe malaria infections would benefit from a diagram currently as written it's very difficult to follow. 

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. We will add a diagram illustrating the connection between the queueing procedure and malaria transmission.

      c. Just observing the box plots of mean and 95% CI on a plot with the FOI estimate (Figures 1, 2, and 10-14) is not sufficient to adequately assess the performance of this estimator. First, it is not clear whether the authors are displaying the bootstrapped 95%CIs or whether they are just showing the distribution of the mean FOI taken over multiple simulations, and then it seems that they are also estimating mean FOI per host on an annual basis. Showing a distribution of those per-host estimates would also be helpful. Second, a more quantitative assessment of the ability of the estimator to recover the truth across simulations (e.g. proportion of simulations where the truth is captured in the 95% CI or something like this) is important in many cases it seems that the estimator is always underestimating the true FOI and may not even contain the true value in the FOI distribution (e.g. Figure 10, Figure 1 under the mid-IRS panel). But it's not possible to conclude one way or the other based on this visualization. This is a major issue since it calls into question whether there is in fact data to support that these methods give good and consistent FOI estimates. 

      There appears to be some confusion on what we display in some key figures. We will clarify this further both here and in the revised text. In Figures 1, 2, and 10-14, we displayed the bootstrapped distributions including the 95% CIs. These figures do not show the distribution of the mean FOI taken over multiple simulations. We estimated mean FOI on an annual basis per host in the following sense. Both of our proposed methods require either a steady-state queue length distribution, or moments of this distribution for FOI inference. However, we only have one realization or observation for each individual host, and we do not have access to either the time-series observation of a single individual’s MOI or many realizations of a single individual’s MOI at the same sampling time. This is typically the case for empirical data, although numerical simulations could circumvent this limitation and generate such output. Nonetheless, we do have a queue length distribution at the population level for both the simulation output and the empirical data, which can be obtained by simply aggregating MOI estimates across all sampled individuals. We use this population-level queue length distribution to represent and approximate the steady-state queue length distribution at the individual level. Such representation or approximation does not consider explicitly any individual heterogeneity due to biology or transmission. The estimated FOI is per host in the sense of representing the FOI experienced by an individual host whose queue length distribution is approximated from the collection of all sampled individuals. The true FOI per host per year in the simulation output is obtained from dividing the total FOI of all hosts per year by the total number of all hosts. Therefore, our estimator, combined with the demographic information on population size, is for the total number of Plasmodium falciparum infections acquired by all individual hosts in the population of interest per year.

      We evaluated the impact of individual heterogeneity on FOI inference by introducing individual heterogeneity into the simulations. With a considerable amount of transmission heterogeneity across individuals (namely 2/3 of the population receiving more than 90% of all bites whereas the remaining 1/3 receives the rest of the bites), our two methods exhibit a similar performance than those of the homogeneous transmission scenarios.

      Concerning the second point, we will add a quantitative assessment of the ability of the estimator to recover the truth across simulations and include this information in the legend of each figure. In particular, we will provide the proportion of simulations where the truth is captured by the entire bootstrap distribution, in addition to some measure of relative deviation, such as the relative difference between the true FOI value and the median of the bootstrap distribution for the estimate. This assessment will be a valuable addition, but please note that the comparisons we have provided in a graphical way do illustrate the ability of the methods to estimate “sensible” values, close to the truth despite multiple sources of errors. “Close” is here relative to the scale of variation of FOI in the field and to the kind of precision that would be useful in an empirical context. From a practical perspective based on the potential range of variation of FOI, the graphical results already illustrate that the estimated distributions would be informative.

      d. Furthermore the authors state in the methods that the choice of mean and variance (and thus second moment) parameters for inter-arrival times are varied widely, however, it's not clear what those ranges are there needs to be a clear table or figure caption showing what combinations of values were tested and which results are produced from them, this is an essential component of the method and it's impossible to fully evaluate its performance without this information. This relates to the issue of selecting the mean and variance values that maximize the likelihood of observing a given distribution of MOI estimates, this is very unclear since no likelihoods have been written down in the methods section of the main text, which likelihood are the authors referring to, is this the probability distribution of the steady state queue length distribution? At other places the authors refer to these quantities as Maximum Likelihood estimators, how do they know they have found the MLE? There are no derivations in the manuscript to support this. The authors should specify the likelihood and include in an appendix an explanation of why their estimation procedure is in fact maximizing this likelihood, preferably with evidence of the shape of the likelihood, and how fine the grid of values they tested is for their mean and variance since this could influence the overall quality of the estimation procedure. 

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out these aspects of the work that can be further clarified. We will specify the ranges for the choice of mean and variance parameters for inter-arrival times as well as the grid of values tested in the corresponding figure caption or in a separate supplementary table. We maximized the likelihood of observing the set of individual MOI estimates in a sampled population given steady queue length distributions (with these distributions based on the two-moment approximation method for different combinations of the mean and variance of inter-arrival times). We will add a section to either the Materials and Methods or the Appendix in our revised manuscript including an explicit formulation of the likelihood.

      We will add example figures on the shape of the likelihood to the Appendix. We will also test how choices of the grid of values influence the overall quality of the estimation procedure. Specifically, we will further refine the grid of values to include more points and examine whether the results of FOI inference are consistent and robust against each other.

      (2) Limitation of FOI estimation procedure.

      a. The authors discuss the importance of the duration of infection to this problem. While I agree that empirically estimating this is not possible, there are other options besides assuming that all 1-5-year-olds have the same duration of infection distribution as naïve adults co-infected with syphilis. E.g. it would be useful to test a wide range of assumed infection duration and assess their impact on the estimation procedure. Furthermore, if the authors are going to stick to the described method for duration of infection, the potentially limited generalizability of this method needs to be further highlighted in both the introduction, and the discussion. In particular, for an estimated mean FOI of about 5 per host per year in the pre-IRS season as estimated in Ghana (Figure 3) it seems that this would not translate to 4-year-old being immune naïve, and certainly this would not necessarily generalize well to a school-aged child population or an adult population. 

      The reviewer is indeed correct about the difficulty of empirically measuring the duration of infection for 1-5-year-olds, and that of further testing whether these 1-5-year-olds exhibit the same distribution for duration of infection as naïve adults co-infected with syphilis. We will nevertheless continue to use the described method for duration of infection, while better acknowledging and discussing the limitations this aspect of the method introduces. We note that the infection duration from the historical clinical data we have relied on, is being used in the malaria modeling community as one of the credible sources for this parameter of untreated natural infections in malaria-naïve individuals in malaria-endemic settings of Africa (e.g. in the agent-based model OpenMalaria, see 1).

      It is important to emphasize that the proposed methods apply to the MOI estimates for naïve or close to naïve patients. They are not suitable for FOI inference for the school-aged children and the adult populations of high-transmission endemic regions, since individuals in these age classes have been infected many times and their duration of infection is significantly shortened by their immunity. To reduce the degree of misspecification in infection duration and take full advantage of our proposed methods, we will emphasize in the revision the need to prioritize in future data collection and sampling efforts the subpopulation class who has received either no infection or a minimum number of infections in the past, and whose immune profile is close to that of naïve adults, for example, infants. This emphasis is aligned with the top priority of all intervention efforts in the short term, which is to monitor and protect the most vulnerable individuals from severe clinical symptoms and death.

      Also, force of infection for naïve hosts is a key basic parameter for epidemiological models of a complex infectious disease such as falciparum malaria, whether for agent-based formulations or equation-based ones. This is because force of infection for non-naïve hosts is typically a function of their immune status and the force of infection of naïve hosts. Thus, knowing the force of infection of naïve hosts can help parameterize and validate these models by reducing degrees of freedom.

      b. The evaluation of the capacity parameter c seems to be quite important and is set at 30, however, the authors only describe trying values of 25 and 30, and claim that this does not impact FOI inference, however it is not clear that this is the case. What happens if the carrying capacity is increased substantially? Alternatively, this would be more convincing if the authors provided a mathematical explanation of why the carrying capacity increase will not influence the FOI inference, but absent that, this should be mentioned and discussed as a limitation. 

      Thank you for this question. We will investigate more values of the parameter c systematically, including substantially higher ones. We note however that this quantity is the carrying capacity of the queuing system, or the maximum number of blood-stage strains that an individual human host can be co-infected with. We do have empirical evidence for the value of the latter being around 20 (2). This observed value provides a lower bound for parameter c. To account for potential under-sampling of strains, we thus tried values of 25 and 30 in the first version of our manuscript.

      In general, this parameter influences the steady-state queue length distribution based on the two-moment approximation, more specifically, the tail of this distribution when the flow of customers/infections is high. Smaller values of parameter c put a lower cap on the maximum value possible for the queue length distribution. The system is more easily “overflowed”, in which case customers (or infections) often find that there is no space available in the queuing system/individual host upon their arrival. These customers (or infections) will not increment the queue length. The parameter c has therefore a small impact for the part of the grid resulting in low flows of customers/infection, for which the system is unlikely to be overflowed. The empirical MOI distribution centers around 4 or 5 with most values well below 10, and only a small fraction of higher values between 15-20 (2). When one increases the value of c, the part of the grid generating very high flows of customers/infections results in queue length distributions with a heavy tail around large MOI values that are not supported by the empirical distribution. We therefore do not expect that substantially higher values for parameter c would change either the relative shape of the likelihood or the MLE.

      Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      The authors combine a clever use of historical clinical data on infection duration in immunologically naive individuals and queuing theory to infer the force of infection (FOI) from measured multiplicity of infection (MOI) in a sparsely sampled setting. They conduct extensive simulations using agent-based modeling to recapitulate realistic population dynamics and successfully apply their method to recover FOI from measured MOI. They then go on to apply their method to real-world data from Ghana before and after an indoor residual spraying campaign.

      Strengths:

      (1) The use of historical clinical data is very clever in this context. 

      (2) The simulations are very sophisticated with respect to trying to capture realistic population dynamics. 

      (3) The mathematical approach is simple and elegant, and thus easy to understand. 

      Weaknesses: 

      (1) The assumptions of the approach are quite strong and should be made more clear. While the historical clinical data is a unique resource, it would be useful to see how misspecification of the duration of infection distribution would impact the estimates. 

      We thank the reviewer for bringing up the limitation of our proposed methods due to their reliance on a known and fixed duration of infection from historical clinical data. Please see our response to reviewer 1 comment 2a.

      (2) Seeing as how the assumption of the duration of infection distribution is drawn from historical data and not informed by the data on hand, it does not substantially expand beyond MOI. The authors could address this by suggesting avenues for more refined estimates of infection duration. 

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out a potential improvement to the work. We acknowledge that FOI is inferred from MOI, and thus is dependent on the information contained in MOI. FOI reflects risk of infection, is associated with risk of clinical episodes, and can relate local variation in malaria burden to transmission better than other proxy parameters for transmission intensity. It is possible that MOI can be as informative as FOI when one regresses the risk of clinical episodes and local variation in malaria burden with MOI. But MOI by definition is a number and not a rate parameter. FOI for naïve hosts is a key basic parameter for epidemiological models. This is because FOI of non-naïve hosts is typically a function of their immune status and the FOI of naïve hosts. Thus, knowing the FOI of naïve hosts can help parameterize and validate these models by reducing degrees of freedom. In this sense, we believe the transformation from MOI to FOI provides a useful step.

      Given the difficulty of measuring infection duration, estimating infection duration and FOI simultaneously appears to be an attractive alternative, as the referee pointed out. This will require however either cohort studies or more densely sampled cross-sectional surveys due to the heterogeneity in infection duration across a multiplicity of factors. These kinds of studies have not been, and will not be, widely available across geographical locations and time. This work aims to utilize more readily available data, in the form of sparsely sampled single-time-point cross-sectional surveys.

      (3) It is unclear in the example how their bootstrap imputation approach is accounting for measurement error due to antimalarial treatment. They supply two approaches. First, there is no effect on measurement, so the measured MOI is unaffected, which is likely false and I think the authors are in agreement. The second approach instead discards the measurement for malaria-treated individuals and imputes their MOI by drawing from the remaining distribution. This is an extremely strong assumption that the distribution of MOI of the treated is the same as the untreated, which seems unlikely simply out of treatment-seeking behavior. By imputing in this way, the authors will also deflate the variability of their estimates. 

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out aspects of the work that can be further clarified. It is difficult to disentangle the effect of drug treatment on measurement, including infection status, MOI, and duration of infection. Thus, we did not attempt to address this matter explicitly in the original version of our manuscript. Instead, we considered two extreme scenarios which bound reality, well summarized by the reviewer. First, if drug treatment has had no impact on measurement, the MOI of the drug-treated 1-5-year-olds would reflect their true underlying MOI. We can then use their MOI directly for FOI inference. Second, if the drug treatment had a significant impact on measurement, i.e., if it completely changed the infection status, MOI, and duration infection of drug-treated 1-5-year-olds, we would need to either exclude those individuals’ MOI or impute their true underlying MOI. We chose to do the latter in the original version of the manuscript. If those 1-5-year-olds had not received drug treatment, they would have had similar MOI values than those of the non-treated 1-5-year-olds. We can then impute their MOI by sampling from the MOI estimates of non-treated 1-5-year-olds.

      The reviewer is correct in pointing out that this imputation does not add additional information and can potentially deflate the variability of MOI distributions, compared to simply throwing or excluding those drug-treated 1-5-year-olds from the analysis. Thus, we can include in our revision FOI estimates with the drug-treated 1-5-year-olds excluded in the estimation.

      - For similar reasons, their imputation of microscopy-negative individuals is also questionable, as it also assumes the same distributions of MOI for microscopy-positive and negative individuals. 

      We imputed the MOI values of microscopy-negative but PCR-positive 1-5-year-olds by sampling from the microscopy-positive 1-5-year-olds, effectively assuming that both have the same, or similar, MOI distributions. We did so because there is a weak relationship in our Ghana data between the parasitemia level of individual hosts and their MOI (or detected number of var genes, on the basis of which the MOI values themselves were estimated). Parasitemia levels underlie the difference in detection sensitivity of PCR and microscopy.

      We will elaborate on this matter in our revised manuscript and include information from our previous and on-going work on the weak relationship between MOI/the number of var genes detected within an individual host and their parasitemia levels. We will also discuss potential reasons or hypotheses for this pattern.

      Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

      Summary: 

      It has been proposed that the FOI is a method of using parasite genetics to determine changes in transmission in areas with high asymptomatic infection. The manuscript attempts to use queuing theory to convert multiplicity of infection estimates (MOI) into estimates of the force of infection (FOI), which they define as the number of genetically distinct blood-stage strains. They look to validate the method by applying it to simulated results from a previously published agent-based model. They then apply these queuing theory methods to previously published and analysed genetic data from Ghana. They then compare their results to previous estimates of FOI. 

      Strengths: 

      It would be great to be able to infer FOI from cross-sectional surveys which are easier and cheaper than current FOI estimates which require longitudinal studies. This work proposes a method to convert MOI to FOI for cross-sectional studies. They attempt to validate this process using a previously published agent-based model which helps us understand the complexity of parasite population genetics. 

      Weaknesses: 

      (1) I fear that the work could be easily over-interpreted as no true validation was done, as no field estimates of FOI (I think considered true validation) were measured. The authors have developed a method of estimating FOI from MOI which makes a number of biological and structural assumptions. I would not call being able to recreate model results that were generated using a model that makes its own (probably similar) defined set of biological and structural assumptions a validation of what is going on in the field. The authors claim this at times (for example, Line 153 ) and I feel it would be appropriate to differentiate this in the discussion. 

      We thank the reviewer for this comment, although we think there is a mis-understanding on what can and cannot be practically validated in the sense of a “true” measure of FOI that would be free from assumptions for a complex disease such as malaria. We would not want the results to be over-interpreted and will extend the discussion of what we have done to test the methods. We note that for the performance evaluation of statistical methods, the use of simulation output is quite common and often a necessary and important step. In some cases, the simulation output is generated by dynamical models, whereas in others, by purely descriptive ones. All these models make their own assumptions which are necessarily a simplification of reality. The stochastic agent-based model (ABM) of malaria transmission utilized in this work has been shown to reproduce several important patterns observed in empirical data from high-transmission regions, including aspects of strain diversity which are not represented in simpler models.

      In what sense this ABM makes a set of biological and structural assumptions which are “probably similar” to those of the queuing methods we present, is not clear to us. We agree that relying on models whose structural assumptions differ from those of a given method or model to be tested, is the best approach. Our proposed methods for FOI inference based on queuing theory rely on the duration of infection distribution and the MOI distribution among sampled individuals, both of which can be direct outputs from the ABM. But these methods are agnostic on the specific mechanisms or biology underlying the regulation of duration and MOI.

      Another important point raised by this comment is what would be the “true” FOI value against which to validate our methods. Empirical MOI-FOI pairs for FOI measured directly by tracking cohort studies are still lacking. There are potential measurement errors for both MOI and FOI because the polymorphic markers typically used in different cohort studies cannot differentiate hyper-diverse antigenic strains fully and well (5). Also, these cohort studies usually start with drug treatment. Alternative approaches do not provide a measure of true FOI, in the sense of the estimation being free from assumptions. For example, one approach would be to fit epidemiological models to densely sampled/repeated cross-sectional surveys for FOI inference. In this case, no FOI is measured directly and further benchmarked against fitted FOI values. The evaluation of these models is typically based on how well they can capture other epidemiological quantities which are more easily sampled or measured, including prevalence or incidence. This is similar to what is done in this work. We selected the FOI values that maximize the likelihood of observing the given distribution of MOI estimates. Furthermore, we paired our estimated FOI value for the empirical data from Ghana with another independently measured quantity EIR (Entomological Inoculation Rate), typically used in the field as a measure of transmission intensity. We check whether the resulting FOI-EIR point is consistent with the existing set of FOI-EIR pairs and the relationship between these two quantities from previous studies. We acknowledge that as for model fitting approaches for FOI inference, our validation is also indirect for the field data.

      Prompted by the reviewer’s comment, we will discuss this matter in more detail in our revised manuscript, including clarifying further certain basic assumptions of our agent-based model, emphasizing the indirect nature of the validation with the field data and the existing constraints for such validation.

      (2) Another aspect of the paper is adding greater realism to the previous agent-based model, by including assumptions on missing data and under-sampling. This takes prominence in the figures and results section, but I would imagine is generally not as interesting to the less specialised reader. The apparent lack of impact of drug treatment on MOI is interesting and counterintuitive, though it is not really mentioned in the results or discussion sufficiently to allay my confusion. I would have been interested in understanding the relationship between MOI and FOI as generated by your queuing theory method and the model. It isn't clear to me why these more standard results are not presented, as I would imagine they are outputs of the model (though happy to stand corrected - it isn't entirely clear to me what the model is doing in this manuscript alone). 

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. We will add supplementary figures for the MOI distributions generated by the queuing theory method (i.e., the two-moment approximation method) and our agent-based model in our revised manuscript.

      In the first version of our manuscript, we considered two extreme scenarios which bound the reality, instead of simply assuming that drug treatment does not impact the infection status, MOI, and duration of infection. See our response to reviewer 2 point (3). The resulting FOI estimates differ but not substantially across the two extreme scenarios, partially because drug-treated individuals’ MOI distribution is similar to that of non-treated individuals (or the apparent lack of drug treatment on MOI as pointed by the referee). We will consider potentially adding some formal test to quantify the difference between the two MOI distributions and how significant the difference is. We will discuss which of the two extreme scenarios reality is closer to, given the result of the formal test. We will also discuss in our revision possible reasons/hypotheses underlying the impact of drug treatment on MOI from the perspective of the nature, efficiency, and duration of the drugs administrated.

      Regarding the last point of the reviewer, on understanding the relationship between MOI and FOI, we are not fully clear about what was meant. We are also confused about the statement on what the “model is doing in this manuscript alone”. We interpret the overall comment as the reviewer suggesting a better understanding of the relationship between MOI and FOI, either between their distributions, or the moments of their distributions, perhaps by fitting models including simple linear regression models. This approach is in principle possible, but it is not the focus of this work. It will be equally difficult to evaluate the performance of this alternative approach given the lack of MOI-FOI pairs from empirical settings with directly measured FOI values (from large cohort studies). Moreover, the qualitative relationship between the two quantities is intuitive. Higher FOI values should correspond to higher MOI values. Less variable FOI values should correspond to more narrow or concentrated MOI distributions, whereas more variable FOI values should correspond to more spread-out ones. We will discuss this matter in our revised manuscript.

      (3) I would suggest that outside of malaria geneticists, the force of infection is considered to be the entomological inoculation rate, not the number of genetically distinct blood-stage strains. I appreciate that FOI has been used to explain the latter before by others, though the authors could avoid confusion by stating this clearly throughout the manuscript. For example, the abstract says FOI is "the number of new infections acquired by an individual host over a given time interval" which suggests the former, please consider clarifying. 

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful comment as it is fundamental that there is no confusion on the basic definitions. EIR, the entomological inoculation rate, is closely related to the force of infection but is not equal to it. EIR focuses on the rate of arrival of infectious bites and is measured as such by focusing on the mosquito vectors that are infectious and arrive to bite a given host. Not all these bites result in actual infection of the human host. Epidemiological models of malaria transmission clearly make this distinction, as FOI is defined as the rate at which a host acquires infection. This definition comes from more general models for the population dynamics of infectious diseases in general. (For diseases simpler than malaria, with no super-infection, the typical SIR models define the force of infection as the rate at which a susceptible individual becomes infected).  For malaria, force of infection refers to the number of blood-stage new infections acquired by an individual host over a given time interval. This distinction between EIR and FOI is the reason why studies have investigated their relationship, with the nonlinearity of this relationship reflecting the complexity of the underlying biology and how host immunity influences the outcome of an infectious bite.

      We agree however with the referee that there could be some confusion in our definition resulting from the approach we use to estimate the MOI distribution (which provides the basis for estimating FOI). In particular, we rely on the non-existent to very low overlap of var repertoires among individuals with MOI=1, an empirical pattern we have documented extensively in previous work (See 2, 3, and 4). The method of var_coding and its Bayesian formulation rely on the assumption of negligible overlap. We note that other approaches for estimating MOI (and FOI) based on other polymorphic markers, also make this assumption (reviewed in _5). Ultimately, the FOI we seek to estimate is the one defined as specified above and in both the abstract and introduction, consistent with the epidemiological literature. We will include clarification in the introduction and discussion of this point in the revision.

      (4) Line 319 says "Nevertheless, overall, our paired EIR (directly measured by the entomological team in Ghana (Tiedje et al., 2022)) and FOI values are reasonably consistent with the data points from previous studies, suggesting the robustness of our proposed methods". I would agree that the results are consistent, given that there is huge variation in Figure 4 despite the transformed scales, but I would not say this suggests a robustness of the method. 

      We will modify the relevant sentences to use “consistent” instead of “robust”.

      (5) The text is a little difficult to follow at times and sometimes requires multiple reads to understand. Greater precision is needed with the language in a few situations and some of the assumptions made in the modelling process are not referenced, making it unclear whether it is a true representation of the biology. 

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. As also mentioned in the response to reviewer 1’s comments, we will reorganize and rewrite parts of the text in our revision to improve clarity.

      References and Notes

      (1)   Maire, N. et al. A model for natural immunity to asexual blood stages of Plasmodium falciparum malaria in endemic areas. Am J Trop Med Hyg., 75(2 Suppl):19-31 (2006).

      (2)   Tiedje, K. E. et al. Measuring changes in Plasmodium falciparum census population size in response to sequential malaria control interventions. eLife, 12 (2023).

      (3)   Day, K. P. et al. Evidence of strain structure in Plasmodium falciparum var gene repertoires in children from Gabon, West Africa. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. U.S.A., 114(20), 4103-4111 (2017).

      (4)   Ruybal-Pesántez, S. et al. Population genomics of virulence genes of Plasmodium falciparum in clinical isolates from Uganda. Sci. Rep., 7(11810) (2017).

      (5)   Labbé, F. et al. Neutral vs. non-neutral genetic footprints of Plasmodium falciparum multiclonal infections. PLoS Comput Biol 19(1) (2023).

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      The authors have adequately responded to all comments.

      We thank Reviewer 1 for their positive assessment of our previous round of revisions.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors combine a clever use of historical clinical data on infection duration in immunologically naive individuals and queuing theory to infer the force of infection (FOI) from measured multiplicity of infection (MOI) in a sparsely sampled setting. They conduct extensive simulations using agent based modeling to recapitulate realistic population dynamics and successfully apply their method to recover FOI from measured MOI. They then go on to apply their method to real world data from Ghana before and after an indoor residual spraying campaign.

      Strengths:

      - The use of historical clinical data is very clever in this context

      - The simulations are very sophisticated with respect to trying to capture realistic population dynamics

      - The mathematical approach is simple and elegant, and thus easy to understand

      Weakness:

      The assumptions of the approach are quite strong, and the authors have made clear that applicability is constrained to individuals with immune profiles that are similar to malaria naive patients with neurosyphilis. While the historical clinical data is a unique resource and likely directionally correct, it remains somewhat dubious to use the exact estimated values as inputs to other models without extensive sensitivity analysis.

      We thank reviewer 2 for their comments on our previous round of revisions. The statement here that “it remains somewhat dubious to use the exact estimated values as inputs to other models” suggests that we may not have been sufficiently clear on how infection duration is represented in our agent-based model (ABM) of malaria population dynamics. Because our analysis uses simulated outputs from the ABM to validate the performance of the two queuing-theory methods, we believe this point warrants clarification, which we provide below.

      When simulating with the ABM, we do not use empirical estimates of infection duration in immunologically naïve individuals from the historical clinical data as direct inputs. Instead, infection duration emerges from the within-host dynamics modeled in the ABM (lines 800-816, second paragraph of the subsection Within-host dynamics in Appendix 1-Simulation data of the previous revision). Briefly, each Plasmodium falciparum parasite carries approximately 50-60 var genes, each encoding a distinct variant surface antigen expressed during the blood stage of infection. Empirical evidence[1,2] indicates that these var genes are expressed largely sequentially. If a host has previously encountered the antigenic product of a given var gene and retains immunity to it, subject to waning at empirically estimated rates[3,4], the corresponding parasite subpopulation is rapidly cleared. Conversely, if the host is naïve to that gene, it takes approximately seven days for the immune system to mount an effective antibody response, resulting in a rapid decline or elimination of the expressed variant[5]. This seven-day timescale aligns with the duration of each successive parasitemia peak observed in Plasmodium falciparum infections[6,7], each arising primarily from the expression of a single var gene and occasionally from a small number of var genes.

      In our previous analyses, we therefore modeled an average expression duration of seven days per gene in naïve hosts. Specifically, the switching time to the next gene was drawn from an exponential distribution with a mean of seven days. Each var gene is represented as a linear combination of two epitopes (alleles), based on the empirical characterization of two hypervariable regions in the var tag region[8], and immunity is acquired against these alleles. Immunity to one allele of a given gene reduces its average expression duration by approximately half, whereas immunity to both alleles results in an immediate switch to another var gene within the infection. Consequently, the total duration of infection is proportional to the number of unseen alleles by the host across all var genes expressed during that infection (lines 800-816, second paragraph of the subsection Within-host dynamics in Appendix 1-Simulation data of the previous revision).

      Prompted by the reviewer’s comments, in this revision we additionally tested mean expression durations of 7.5 and 8 days per var gene, together with an extension of the within-host rules. These values were applied in combination with the extended within-host rules (see the next paragraph for motivation and details). Although differences among the three mean expression durations are modest at the per-gene level, when aggregated across all var genes expressed within an individual parasite, the resulting total infection duration can differ by on the order of several months. The resulting distributions of infection duration across immunologically naïve individuals and those aged 1-5 years, together with those generated under our previous simulation settings, span a range of means and variances that lies above and below, but encompasses, scenarios comparable to the historical clinical data from naïve neurosyphilis patients treated with P. falciparum malaria. We have provided example supplementary figures illustrating that the distributions of infection duration from the simulated outputs overlap with, and closely resemble, the empirical distribution from the historical clinical data (Appendix 1-Figure 27-32).

      We considered the following modification of the within-host rules. In our previous ABM simulations, we had assumed that an infection would clear only once the parasite had exhausted its entire var gene repertoire, that is, after every var gene had been expressed and recognized. However, biological evidence indicates that clearance can occur earlier for several reasons, including stochastic extinction before full repertoire exhaustion. Even if some var genes remain unexpressed, an infection can terminate due to demographic stochasticity once parasite densities fall to very low levels. This decline in parasite densities may result from non-variant-specific immune mechanisms or from cross-immunity among var genes that share sequence similarity or alleles[9,10,11], both of which can substantially reduce parasite numbers. To model the possibility of termination or clearance before full repertoire exhaustion, we implemented a simple scenario in which there is a small probability of clearing the current infection while a given var gene-whether non-final or final-is being expressed. This probability is a function of the host’s pre-existing immunity to the two epitopes (alleles) of that gene, thereby capturing in a parsimonious manner the effects of cross-immunity among sequence- or allele-sharing var genes in reducing parasitemia. Specifically, it is modeled as a Bernoulli draw whose success probability equals the immunity level against the gene (0 for no immunity to either epitope, 0.5 for immunity to one epitope, and 1 for immunity to both epitopes) multiplied by a constant factor of 0.025. Thus, the probability scales with pre-existing variant-specific immunity to the gene but remains small overall, while introducing additional variance into the emergent distribution of total infection duration across hosts.

      We acknowledge that the ABM used to simulate malaria population dynamics cannot capture all mechanisms and complexities underlying within-host processes, many of which remain poorly understood. However, we emphasize that the resulting distributions of infection duration generated by the ABM span a broad range of means, variances, and shapes, including distributions that closely match those observed in the clinical historical data. Because the queueing-theory methods rely on only the mean and variance of infection duration to estimate the force of infection (FOI), these scenarios, which collectively span and encompass values comparable to the empirical ones, provide an appropriate basis for evaluating the performance of the methods using simulated outputs. We have added supplementary figures (see Appendix 1-Figure 16-22) illustrating the corresponding FOI inference results when we allow for clearance before the complete expression of the var repertoire, and the accuracy of FOI estimation remains comparable across all the scenarios examined.

      Finally, we emphasize that the application of the queuing-theory methods to the simulated outputs and to the Ghana field survey data involve two self-contained steps. For the simulations, FOI is inferred directly from the emergent distributions of infection duration generated by the ABM. For the Ghana surveys, FOI is inferred using the historical clinical data, which remains one of the few credible and widely used empirical sources for infection duration in immunologically naïve individuals[6]. By exploring different mean expression durations and within-host rules in the ABM, which generates distributions of infection duration that span and encompass those comparable to the empirical distribution, we demonstrate that the queueing-theory methods perform comparably across diverse scenarios and are well suited for application to the Ghana field surveys.

      We expanded the section on within-host dynamics in Appendix 1 to elaborate on this point (Lines 817-854).

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      I think the authors gave a robust but thorough response to our reviews and made some important changes to the manuscript which certainly clarify things for me.

      We thank Reviewer 3 for their positive feedback on our previous round of revisions.

      References

      (1) Zhang, X. & Deitsch, K. W. The mystery of persistent, asymptomatic Plasmodium falciparum infections. Curr. Opin. Microbiol 70, 102231 (2022).

      (2) Deitsch, K. W. & Dzikowski, R. Variant gene expression and antigenic variation by malaria parasites. Annu. Rev. Microbiol. 71, 625–641 (2017).

      (3) Collins, W. E., Skinner, J. C. & Jeffery, G. M. Studies on the persistence of malarial antibody response. American journal of epidemiology, 87(3), 592–598 (1968).

      (4) Collins, W. E., Jeffery, G. M. & Skinner, J. C. Fluorescent Antibody Studies in Human Malaria. II. Development and Persistence of Antibodies to Plasmodium falciparum. The American journal of tropical medicine and hygiene, 13, 256–260 (1964).

      (5) Gatton, M. L., & Cheng, Q. Investigating antigenic variation and other parasite-host interactions in Plasmodium falciparum infections in naïve hosts. Parasitology, 128(Pt 4), 367–376 (2004).

      (6) Maire, N., Smith, T., Ross, A., Owusu-Agyei, S., Dietz, K., & Molineaux, L. A model for natural immunity to asexual blood stages of Plasmodium falciparum malaria in endemic areas. The American journal of tropical medicine and hygiene, 75(2 Suppl), 19–31 (2006).

      (7) Chen D. S., Barry A. E., Leliwa-Sytek A., Smith T-A., Peterson I., Brown S. M., et al. A Molecular Epidemiological Study of var Gene Diversity to Characterize the Reservoir of Plasmodium falciparum in Humans in Africa. PLoS ONE 6(2): e16629 (2011).

      (8) Larremore D. B., Clauset A., & Buckee C. O. A Network Approach to Analyzing Highly Recombinant Malaria Parasite Genes. PLoS Comput Biol 9(10): e1003268 (2013).

      (9) Holding T. & Recker M. Maintenance of phenotypic diversity within a set of virulence encoding genes of the malaria parasite Plasmodium falciparum. J. R. Soc. Interface.1220150848 (2015).

      (10) Crompton, P. D., Moebius, J., Portugal, S., Waisberg, M., Hart, G., Garver, L. S., Miller, L. H., Barillas-Mury, C., & Pierce, S. K. Malaria immunity in man and mosquito: insights into unsolved mysteries of a deadly infectious disease. Annual review of immunology, 32, 157–187 (2014).

      (11) Langhorne, J., Ndungu, F., Sponaas, AM. et al. Immunity to malaria: more questions than answers. Nat Immunol 9, 725–732 (2008).