- Jul 2022
the question you were asking was what is mind or consciousness so here we're using the words synonymously um and from a buddhist perspective uh there are 01:11:50 six what we call primary minds and then there's a whole slew of secondary minds and some of the more common systems include 51 in the secondary minds now please understand that mind like 01:12:04 everything else that exists in the world doesn't exist permanently it exists there are a few exceptions okay but essentially everything that exists in the world um is not permanent therefore 01:12:18 it's changing moment to moment therefore everything exists as a continuum including mind so that means there'll be a moment of mind followed by a next moment of mind etc 01:12:31 and the next moment of mind is determined primarily but not solely by the previous moment of mind so from that we can extrapolate a continuum an infinite continuum and mind is an 01:12:43 infinite continuum from perspective of buddhism and that means that we've had that implies suggests rebirth and it suggests we've had ultimate we've had infinite rebirths there's been no beginning 01:12:56 and so this then comes up again with the notion of a beginning creator if you will a so-called you know god there are some some problems here to resolve this um 01:13:07 and so mind is a continuum it's infinite now each moment of mind is made up of a primary mind and a constellation of secondary minds these six primary or the five as you read from nagarjuna the five 01:13:22 sensory minds of seeing hearing smelling tasting touching tactile right these five plus what's sometimes called the mental consciousness and that has live different levels of subtlety on the 01:13:34 grossest level is thinking if we go a little bit deeper a little bit more so little subtler we have dream mind which seems like these senses are active but actually 01:13:46 when we're sleeping the senses are inactive so it's just something coming from our sixth or mental consciousness it seems like the senses are active in dream mind that dream mind is a little more subtle than a wake mind awake 01:13:59 thinking mind and then if we go more subtle we're talking now again about awake mind we we talk about intuition when we're in intuition we're not thinking right it's a non-conceptual 01:14:11 mind uh in that sense and deeper yet our minds we call non-conceptual and non-dual where there's no awareness of a subject or an object so subject object non-duality so 01:14:25 that's kind of the rough sort of you know lay of the land
Barry provides a brief summary of what the word "mind" means from a Buddhist philosophy perspective and says that there are six primary minds and 51 secondary minds.
The 6 primary minds are the 5 senses plus mental consciousness, which itself consists of the coarse thinking (conceptual) mind, the intuitive mind (these two could be roughly mapped to Daniel Kahnaman's fast and slow system respectively), as well as the dreaming mind.
Barry also conveys an interpretation of reincarnation based on the concept that the mind is never the same from one moment to the next, but is rather an ever changing continuum. The current experience of mind is GENERALLY most strongly influenced by the previous moments but also influenced by temporally distant memories. This above interpretation of reincarnation makes sense, as the consciousness is born anew in every moment. It is also aligned to the nature of the Indyweb interpersonal computing ecosystem, in which access to one's own private data store, the so-called Indyhub, allows one to experience the flow of consciousness by seeing how one's digital experience, which is quite significant today, affects learning on a moment to moment basis. In other words, we can see, on a granular level, how one idea, feeling or experience influences another idea, experience or feeling.
i think there's a lot of latent potential in this coordination mechanisms layer um especially i think there's a bunch of really good ideas around um things like futarki and other struck 00:17:59 i'm not necessarily sure that that particular construction will work but i think we need to a lot of experiments with those kinds of governance structures to see if there could be ways of governing systems algorithmically 00:18:11 and and with a way of aggregating a lot of our perspectives and thoughts and values um in a much more systematic way than sort of like uh very brittle representative democracy that like doesn't really scale to to 00:18:23 millions of people um and i think you know in terms of a lot of the mechanisms and structures that that we want to build um there's a lot more theory that is needed there's a lot more implementations that 00:18:35 are needed there's a lot more rigorous study and assessment of of performance and so on that is needed so um really encourage you to kind of pick out any of these
Indyweb could be a good option for coordination layer.
i really think this last one the coordination systems how do you get large groups of people to organize much better 00:16:44 that holds some of the most promise
Indyweb / SRG / Global Boundaries combination for the large scale transformation and coordination framework.
i framed this this r d program that is it's conceptual at the 00:07:18 time it's not funded yet you know i'm hoping that we can secure funds but i frame it as a partnership between this global science community and local communities 00:07:29 so it's very so dialogue with the public and within the science community and among interested stakeholders is extremely important in this um i i i 00:07:42 you know to me science has a role in in such a r d program because science is really the you know the where we would turn to answer some really difficult questions like if you wanted to build a simulation 00:07:56 model of how environmental or environmental or economic uh outcomes might be given you know a b c and d well then you know that's a that's a technical those are technical questions 00:08:08 um if you're if you're asking how can we measure how can what kind of metrics are reasonable for environmental and social well-being 00:08:23 those are largely scientific questions you know the math can be complicated for example but the questions of you know how do what do we want what do people want 00:08:36 how how how do they want their light you know how do they want to live their lives in in society those are questions for you know for the public and for communities especially 00:08:49 um i i the the intention of the r d program is not to develop one size fits all solution you know to trial it in a local community and then spread it everywhere that's not at all 00:09:02 the idea the idea is that this is an ongoing learning process a true partnership between uh local communities and the science and the science community and there would be just a million sorts 00:09:15 of you know experiments that one might might might run uh to to improve the kinds of societal systems that we have 00:09:27 or that were you know that we're proposing uh develop a new system try it out see how it works gather data you know do another experiment uh all within the partnership of at with 00:09:39 local communities at the local community level i think maybe you know i since i know this stuff
This project is a collaboration between the global scientific community and local communities to improve societal systems. It's not a one-size-fits-all process, but many different experiments.
Dialogue is a critical component of this process.
Tipping Point Festival and SRG strategy is well aligned with Science-driven societal transformation ethos: second order science combined with local communities as the building block of civilization AND cosmolocal networking (https://clreader.net) via Indyweb interpersonal computing.
the two questions that we hopefully would uh try to answer with with this r d program is and and one of this i already 00:56:53 mentioned but out of all conceivable designs for societal systems so so so this isn't about capitalism versus socialism or something like that there's like i would think there's an unlimited 00:57:05 potential we're creative we're creative people there would be a million varieties of of societal systems and integrated societal systems that we might come up with 00:57:17 and some of those probably would work very well and some of them probably would work very poorly um so among those what what might be among the best and not the the single best that's not the purpose either it's not just to find one thing that works is 00:57:30 to find like a you know more of a a variety a process of things a mix mishmash of things that community the communities can choose to implement that you know 00:57:43 works well for them and that suits them and that works well for their neighbors and works well forever it works well for the whole really
Two questions to answer:
- out of all the conceivable societal systems possible, which are suited to a community? This is not one size fits all.
This requires careful consideration. There cannot be complete autonomy, as lack of standards will make things very challenging for any inter-community cooperation.
Cosmolocal framework (https://clreader.net) as well as Indyweb Interpersonal computing could mediate discussion between different community nodes and emerge common ground
maybe i should say having a having a checkoff list like you know there should be this level of education there should be this level of 00:52:40 [Music] health people should live this long and so we have our fitness and we're gonna uh we've decided in advance even before the system is running we've 00:52:53 now have a list of things we're gonna check off we're gonna score each one we're gonna come up with some kind of integrated fitness score from that and that's how we're going to move forward we're always going to refer to this fit this you know this fitness model and 00:53:07 the fitness vector and these and these kind of hard-coded values for what's good and what's bad so so in the world of artificial intelligence and in the world of active inference you know that 00:53:19 really doesn't go very far that doesn't work that doesn't work very well because what happens is we didn't you didn't think ahead you like you some something happens tomorrow and whoever came up with that list of 00:53:32 uh you know those values or that model didn't really include the fact that maybe spaceships from mars were gonna land and cause a new disruption and then we have to deal with that problem now too before we deal with 00:53:45 anything else so that wasn't in the you know that wasn't in the plan and now what do we do you know so there's right so so this is you know this is really where active inference plays into 00:53:58 that's one way that active inference plays into this is how do you evaluate and act in a world that is full of uncertainties right 00:54:10 the unknown unknown the unknown unknown is the temperature dynamics but you know it's going to be temperature and so how can you plan for what you know it will be in a distributional sense 00:54:23 right and make stabilization on that awesome right right so so yeah so you so you realize you know already you realize maybe that this is not a proposal to build a say like a model of uh of uh you know 00:54:37 like how society makes decisions you know that's that's not that's not it it is what is the process by which society cognates 00:54:50 and you know what kind of what kind of infrastructure and tools and and and you know mechanics can we use that would facilitate that but it's not to build a thing 00:55:01 it's to build it's to realize that we are in we are engaged moment to moment in a cognitive process society as individuals are and how can we 00:55:14 do that together as a society so that we're you know we we balance exploration with exploitation um you know so that we we learn about our environment we grow we learn 00:55:27 we explore we we make good decisions based on available evidence and based on knowledge based on cultural knowledge you know like all those things right so so this is a this is 00:55:39 the the the you know i think organisms are a process they're not a thing anyway right cognition is a process and societal decision making is a process 00:55:54 and really society is a process you know there's there's not too many things in this world there's mostly processes living processes intelligent processes so that's that's the that's the hope 00:56:05 that's where this is trying to go is to like with that in mind with that with that broad understanding or broad concept in mind how do we uh how do we 00:56:16 think about you know how we how we come together as society how we cooperate how we coordinate how we make decisions how we how we learn how we explore what do we what do we monitor what kind 00:56:29 of information do we seek you know what kind of experiments do we do all that kind of stuff great
The superorganism's efforts to learn, decide and adapt can be interpreted as being driven by its intrinsic pupose.
This is aligned to the Indyweb philosophy of a system architecture that promotes conversation, knowledge at the edge and high efficacy collective learning.
Living beings,and groups of living beings are processes and not (static) things - a perspective aligned with SRG and Indyweb. The process quality of being a living human INTERbeing quickly becomes apparent after one starts using the Interpersonal Indyweb computing ecosystem. In particular, the Indyhub allows the Indyvidual to consolidate all their digital and virtual interactions in one place, which allows for the first time, the ability to witness one's own individual learning on a granular level and literally see the process of your own individual learning in realtime.
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