eLife assessment

This fundamental study provides insights into how pathogens respond, on a systemic level including several gene targets and clusters, to selected antimicrobial molecules. Compelling evidence is provided, through multi-omics and functional approaches, that very similar molecules originally designed to target the same bacterial protein act differently within the context of the whole set of cellular transcripts, expressed proteins, and pre-lethal metabolic changes. Given the rapid accumulation of omics data and the much slower capacity of extracting biologically relevant insights from big data, this work exemplifies how the development of sensitive data analysis is still a major necessity in modern research.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

In this manuscript, entitled " Merging Multi-OMICs with Proteome Integral Solubility Alteration Unveils Antibiotic Mode of Action", Dr. Maity and colleagues aim to elucidate the mechanisms of action of antibiotics through combined approaches of omics and the PISA tool to discover new targets of five drugs developed against Helicobacter pylori.

Strengths:<br /> Using transcriptomics, proteomic analysis, protein stability (PISA), and integrative analysis, Dr. Maity and colleagues have identified pathways targeted by five compounds initially discovered as inhibitors against H. pylori flavodoxin. This study underscores the necessity of a global approach to comprehensively understand the mechanisms of drug action. The experiments conducted in this paper are well designed and the obtained results support the authors' conclusions.

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

Public Reviews:

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

In this manuscript, entitled " Merging Mul-OMICs with Proteome Integral Solubility Alteration Unveils Antibiotic Mode of Acon", Dr. Maity and colleagues aim to elucidate the mechanisms of action of antibiotics through combined approaches of omics and the PISA tool to discover new targets of five drugs developed against Helicobacter pylori.

Strengths:

Using transcriptomics, proteomic analysis, protein stability (PISA), and integrative analysis, Dr. Maity and colleagues have identified pathways targeted by five compounds initially discovered as inhibitors against H. pylori flavodoxin. This study underscores the necessity of a global approach to comprehensively understanding the mechanisms of drug action. The experiments conducted in this paper are well-designed and the obtained results support the authors' conclusions.

Weaknesses:

This manuscript describes several interesting findings. A few points listed below require further clarification:

(1) Compounds IVk exhibits markedly different behavior compared to the other compounds. The authors are encouraged to discuss these findings in the context of existing literature or chemical principles.

This is a good point. We have added the following paragraph (Page No-13).

“In several of our studies, compound IVk, which has a higher MIC, exhibits markedly different behavior. This difference in behavior may stem from different sources, including intercellular availability, inactivation inside the cell, or loss of target specificity. Multiple studies have previously demonstrated that there is only a 30% chance for a structurally similar compound to have similar biological activity32.”

(2) The incubation me for treating H. pylori with the drugs was set at 4 hours for transcriptomic and proteomic analyses, compared to 20 min for PISA analysis. The authors need to explain the reason for these differences in treatment duration.

This is now explained in Pages 17 and 19, where the following paragraphs have been included

“The incubation time for transcriptomics and proteomics assays was determined based on the Time-Kill Curves assay (Fig. 6(A)). The 4-hour time point shows a significant amount of cell death compared to the control population.”

“The target deconvolution method aims to evaluate the initial interaction with intracellular proteins. We selected a 20-minute time point based on intracellular ROS generation (not shown). It is a well-reported phenomenon that bactericidal drugs induce early production of ROS.”

(3) The PISA method facilitates the identification of proteins stabilized by drug treatment. DnaJ and Trigger factor (g), well-known molecular chaperones, prevent protein aggregation under stress. Their enrichment in the soluble fraction is expected and does not necessarily indicate direct stabilization by the drugs. The possibility that their stabilization results from binding to other proteins destabilized by the drugs should be considered. To prevent any misunderstanding, the authors should clarify that their methodology does not solely identify direct targets. Instead, the combination of their findings sheds light on various pathways affected by the treatment.

This is also a very valuable observation. We now clearly state that in new paragraphs at Pages 8 and 13

Another target shared among several compounds is the chaperone protein trigger factor (Tig), which plays a crucial role in facilitating proper protein folding and is indispensable for the survival of bacterial cells. The solubility of this protein has been altered by all the compounds except IVk (Fig. 2(I-J)) in a concentration-dependent manner (Fig. S4(B, D, and E)). The possibility of Tig interacting with other proteins destabilized by the drug, along with the influence of the heat gradient during the PISA assay, may introduce potential noise in the data. Further investigation is required to confirm the interaction of the drug with Tig.

“The module “black” associated with this compound contains Tig, which is involved in facilitating proper protein folding, as a target, and it down-regulates multiple proteins associated closely with S12 ribosomal protein of the 30S subunit (Fig. S9(D)) indicating its involvement in stabilization of ribosomal protein.”

(4) At the end of the manuscript, the authors conclude that four compounds "strongly interact with CagA". However, detailed molecule/protein interaction studies are necessary to definitively support this claim. The authors should exercise caution in their statement. As the authors mentioned, additional research (not mandated in the scope of this current paper) is necessary to determine the drug's binding affinity to the proposed targets.

We have modified the sentence (Page -15) to say:

“This study identifies four out of our five compounds that induce significant change in the solubility of CagA, the major virulence factor of H. pylori.”

(5) The authors should clarify the PISA-Express approach over standard PISA. A detailed explanation of the differences between both methods in the main text is important.

This was already explained in Page 5 (no changes have been made)

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Summary:

This work has an important and ambitious goal: understanding the effects of drugs, in this case antimicrobial molecules, from a holistic perspective. This means that the effect of drugs on a group of genes and whole metabolic pathways is unveiled, rather than its immediate effect on a protein target only. To achieve this goal the authors successfully implement the PISA-Express method (Protein Integral Solubility Alteration), using combined transcriptomics, proteomics, and drug-induced changes in protein stability to retrieve a large number of genes and proteins affected by the used compounds. The compounds used in the study (compound IVa, IVb, IVj, and IVk) were all derived from the precursors compound IV, they are effective against Helicobacter pylori, and their mode of action on clusters of genes and proteins has been compared to the one of the known pylori drug metronidazole (MNZ). Due to this comparison, and confirmed by the diversity of responses induced by these very similar compounds, it can be understood that the approach used is reliable and very informative. Notably, although all compound IV derivatives were designed to target pylori Flavodoxin (Fld), only one showed a statically significant shift of Fld solubility (compound IVj, FIG S11). For most other compounds, instead, the involvement of other possible targets affecting diverse metabolic pathways was also observed, notably concerning a series of genes with other important functions: CagA (virulence factor), FtsY/FtsA (cell division), AtpD (ATP-synthase complex), the essential GTPase ObgE, Tig (protein export), as well as other proteins involved in ribosomal synthesis, chemotaxis/motility and DNA replication/repairs. Finally, for all tested molecules, in vivo functional data have been collected that parallel the omics predictions, comforting them and showing that compound IV derivatives differently affect cellular generation of reactive oxygen species (ROS), oxygen consumption rates (OCR), DNA damage, and ATP synthesis.

Strengths:

The approach used is very potent in retrieving the effects of chemically active molecules (in this case antimicrobial ones) on whole cells, evidencing protein and gene networks that are involved in cell sensitivity to the studied molecules. The choice of these compounds against H. pylori is perfect, showcasing how different the real biological response is, compared to the hypothetical one. In fact, although all molecules were retrieved based on their activity on Fld, the authors unambiguously show that large unexpected gene clusters may, and in fact are, affected by these compounds, and each of them in different manners.

Impact:

The present work is the first report relying on PISA-Express performed on living bacterial cells. Because of its findings, this work will certainly have a high impact on the way we design research to develop effective drugs, allowing us to understand the fine effects of a drug on gene clusters, drive molecule design towards specific metabolic pathways, and eventually better plan the combination of multiple active molecules for drug formulation. Beyond this, however, we expect this article to impact other related and unrelated fields of research as well. The same holistic approaches might also allow gaining deep, and sometimes unexpected, insight into the cellular targets involved in drug side effects, drug resistance, toxicity, and cellular adaptation, in fields beyond the medicinal one, such as cellular biology and environmental studies on pollutants.

Recommendations for the authors:

Reviewer #1 (Recommendations For The Authors):

Please modify these few concerns:

-  It is unclear from the introduction and discussion whether conventional transcriptomic and proteomic analyses have previously been conducted on the compounds examined in this study. If only targeted studies have been performed please clarify this further.

To make it more clear, we have added the following paragraph in Page 5:

“Our investigation into understanding the mode of action of nitro-benzoxadiazole compounds commenced with a comparison of the conventional transcriptional and translational changes induced by these compounds, the vehicle control (DMSO), and the commercially used drug MNZ. RNA sequencing (RNA-seq) and expressional proteomics were employed to identify transcriptional and translational changes, respectively.”

-  The decision to monitor the oxygen consumption rate (OCR) is based on the hypothesis that the drugs would impact flavodoxins function. Could the authors cite specific studies that suggest a reduction in flavodoxin leads to decreased OCR that can be measured?

The reviewer is correct to say that we have done this study based on our hypothesis that a reduction in flavodoxin may lead to decreased OCR.  To our knowledge, there is no previous studies indicating that so we now clearly state (Page 14) that it is our hypothesis.

“On the other hand, given that these drugs indicated involvement of multiple factors from the electron transport chain including flavodoxin and we observed significant drop in the ATP production rate (Fig. 6(D)) associated to compounds IV and IVj, we have investigated the changes in oxygen consumption rate (OCR) as we hypothesize that a reduction in soluble flavodoxin could lead to decreased OCR”

-  Increase font size in some figures and supplemental materials for clarity.

We acknowledge the reviewer's comment and have addressed it to the best possible extent in the figures.

-  Correct figure references throughout the text (example of mistake p4, Fig S1D, p6 S1C).

We have corrected the figure references.

-  Check spelling errors, for example, Figure S1B: "library preparation".

We have revised the figures and corrected spelling errors.

-  Ensure H. pylori is in italics.

Done!

-  Figure S4: Replace (D) by (E).

Done! Thank you.

-  Page 7: Check the sentence: "...RpleE, InfC) and F Furthermore, we..." .

Corrected!  

“The 20 common essential targets are mostly associated with cell division (for example, FtsZ), small subunit ribosomal proteins (RspC, RspE, RspL, RplE, InfC). Furthermore, we identified a few unique changes for compound IV (DnaN, involved in DNA tethering and processivity of DNA polymerases, and C694_06445, which could be a functional equivalent of delta subunit of DNA polymerase III).”

-  Page 9: Please modify the name of one compound "Compounds IV, IVj (and not IVk) and MnZ downregulate...".

We have observed that both reviewers mentioned this point and we revisited the data, as suggested by Fig S8(B), that compounds IV, IVk, and MNZ cluster together and downregulate the genes associated with this pathway. Based on this, we have not changed anything in the text.  

-  Figure S9: please clarify symbols (triangles and others) in the Figure legend.

Done!

-  Page 9: Is it the Figure S9B you are referring to? Talking about proteomics?

Sorry, we have not understood the above comment.

Reviewer #2 (Recommendations For The Authors):

All figures are printed as one per page. In this format, almost all pictures suffer a severe problem with dimensions. Notably graph axes and axis values, subtitles, and legends within the pictures are too small, although the graphical part is almost always appropriate. Negative example (higher fonts are needed): Figure 1. Positive example (font ok): Figure 2A or Figure 3 right panels.

We have carefully revised our figures to address the issues you mentioned, ensuring that elements are visible when printed one per page. In Fig 1: We have increased the font sizes of the graph axes, axis values, subtitles, and legends to improve readability. Additionally, we have color-matched different Gene Ontology (GO) terms for better rideability. In Fig 2: To enhance clarity, we have resized the figure by removing the top 10 protein list, now presented in a separate table. This ensures that the figure's main content remains prominent.  These modifications have been made across figures to maintain consistency and readability.

For all figures, particularly for non-experts, not only a list of what is found in the picture should be provided, but also a minimal, simplified key of interpretation (of what is to be noticed). Particularly relevant for scatter plots.

We have modified the legends to provide simplified key interpretation for the scatter plots. 

In general for most analyses I see the involvement of FtsA, whereas most discussions concern FtsY and FtsZ. Maybe this point should be clarified. For example: i) FtsZ is quoted in the Second "Results" paragraph (page 6), but we can't find this gene in Figure 2, nor in the corresponding table (Figure 2A); ii) FtsY downregulation is quoted in the Fifth "Results" paragraph (page 9), but we can't find this gene in Figure 5, 9S or 10S.

We are not entirely sure if we have understood the reviewer's comment correctly, as we did not mention FtsY in our discussion section. In the discussion section, we have focused on the involvement of FtsZ and FtsA with some of our compounds. We decided to discuss them together because FtsZ is the primary component that is recruited to the membrane by the actin-related protein FtsA, while the role of FtsY remains highly debated.

Figure 1: same colour for the same GO: term in different panels should be used.

Done!

Figure 4: please specify (being it essential throughout the whole paper) that the group colouring only refers to Figure 4A, lower bar.

Done!

Figure 5, S9, and S10: having the combination of analysed sets (brown / IV , magenta / IVb, etc....) as a panel subtle is almost a necessity, to avoid constant page turning. I did rewrite all of them by hand to be able to follow the main text story.

Done!

What are the triangles? (this is not written anywhere).

We have now explained this in the legends of Fig5.

Figures S9 and S10 are too crowded (please refer to Figure 5 for a good format/size).

For supplementary figures S9 and S10 we prefer to keep the gene names, but in order to make them more legible we have now added subtitles to each panel.

Second and third "Results" paragraph. Explicitly saying that the Second is only focused on TOP 10 hits, at the beginning of the paragraph (while the third on essential genes) would help enormously the non-specialist in orienting among the different sections.

On page 7, we have revised the text to indicate that the paragraph is only focused on the top 10 hits. Additionally, we have included a table of top 10 hits for better clarity and accessibility. 

Page 6: the following sentence should be in the introduction, to stress the novelty of the work: "This is the first me PISA assay, in the form of PISA-Express, has been successfully performed in living bacterial cells, with protocols adapted and modified from previous PISA studies in mammalian cells".

Page- 2 

We agree this is an important point. However, having we stated it in both the abstract and in the PISA section in the results we prefer not to state it once more in the Introduction.

(no changes made)

I couldn't find any reference to Figure S3 in the text.

Included! (P 9)

"Compounds IV, IVk, and MNZ downregulate the genes associated with this pathway (Fig. 4(B) & S8(B))": it seems to me that it is IVj rather than IVk to downregulate. Please check carefully.

We have observed that both reviewers mentioned this point and we revisited the data, as suggested by Fig S8(B), that compounds IV, IVk, and MNZ cluster together and downregulate the genes associated with this pathway. Based on this, we have not changed anything in the text.  

Page 12: of the pre-defined target like flavodoxin => of the pre-defined target flavodoxin.

Thanks! We have removed “like” from the sentence.

Metronidazol (=MNZ) only appears on page 13 (MNZ already on page 8).

Corrected!  The correspondence is now first indicated in P. 3.

Please resolve the ambiguity metronidazol/metronidazole (main text and figures).

We now always say “metronidazole”

The Sixth "Results" paragraph (pages 10-11) should be developed a bit more. All Figure 6 results are summarized in 8 lines at the end of the paragraph. This doesn't bring much, particularly to a non-specialist reader. Please, for each panel, clearly explain what is to be noticed and what main conclusion(s) can be extracted.

We have improved the description of the section. The modified part now reads:

…This indicates that the nitro-bearing groups have a higher propensity to generate ROS. We have also observed that the genes associated with the generation of ROS are significantly overexpressed for compounds IV, IVb, IVj, and MNZ (Fig. S12(A)). As described above and depicted in Fig. S12(B), multiple DNA damage repair proteins and genes are down-regulated in the presence of compounds IV, IVb, IVj, and MNZ. Additionally, DNA PolA was found to be a major target for compound IVj. Following these results, we investigated compound-induced DNA damage using the APO BrdU TUNEL assay. All the compounds, particularly IV and IVj, caused significant DNA damage (Fig. 6(C)).

On the other hand, given that these drugs indicated involvement of multiple factors from the electron transport chain including flavodoxin and we observed significant drop in the ATP production rate (Fig. 6(D)) associated to compounds IV and IVj, we have investigated the changes in oxygen consumption rate (OCR) as we hypothesize that a reduction in soluble flavodoxin could lead to decreased OCR.  Though the signal-to-noise ratio of these data is poor…

and we added figure S12 for clarity.   

In the same section I found: "Compound IV and its derivatives cause a marked increase in ROS generation when compared to the control (DMSO)" => refers to THIS work or previous work? (in the later case, please quote it).

This data is from our current paper, as shown in Fig 6(B).

In the same paragraph, "the signal-to-noise ratio of these data is considerable" => does it mean that you have good (high signal-to-noise) data, or that you have too high noise for precise quantification? I rather understood the later, but this sentence definitely needs to be rewritten.

Thank you for pointing out the mistake. Your interpretation is correct. We have corrected the sentence.

eLife assessment

This important paper addresses the process by which cryptic splice sites that occur randomly in exons are ignored by the splicing machinery. Integrating state-of- the-art genome-wide approaches such as CLIP-seq with the study of individual examples, this study convincingly implicates members of RBMX family of RNA binding proteins in such cryptic splice site suppression and showcases its importance for the fidelity of expression of genes with very large exons.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

Summary:

The article by Siachisumo, Luzzi and Aldalaquan et al. describes studies of RBMX and its role in maintaining proper splicing of ultra-long exons. They combine CLIP, RNA-seq, and individual example validations with manipulation of RBMX and its family members RBMY and RBMXL2 to show that the RBMX family plays a key role in maintaining proper splicing of these exons.

I think one of the main strengths of the manuscript is its ability to explore a unique but interesting question (splicing of ultra-long exons), and derive a relatively simple model from the resulting genomics data. The results shown are quite clean, suggesting that RBMX plays an important role in proper regulation of these exons. The ability of family members to rescue this phenotype (as well as only particular domains) is also quite intriguing and suggests that the mechanisms for keeping these exons properly spliced may be a quite important and highly conserved mechanism.

The revised manuscript addresses many of my earlier critiques and does an effective job of arguing that RBMX plays a large-scale role in regulating splicing of long exons. I think there are obvious open questions for future work (the mechanism of how RBMX/RBMXL2 achieve this splicing control is perhaps hinted at but not fully explored here), but I think the article provides an intriguing analysis of the role of RBMX that will activate interesting future studies.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

The manuscript by Siachisumo et al builds upon a previous publication from the same group of collaborators that showed that depletion of mouse RBMXL2 leads to a block in spermatogenesis associated with mis-splicing, particularly of large exons in genes associated with genome stability (Ehrmann et al Elife 2019). RBMXL2 is an RNA-binding protein and an autosomal retrotransposed paralog of the X-chromosomally encoded RBMX. RBMXL2 is expressed during meiosis when RBMX and the more distantly related RBMY (on the Y chromosome) are silenced. It is therefore an appealing hypothesis that RBMXL2 might provide cover for RBMX function during meiosis. To address this hypothesis the authors analysed the transcriptomic consequences of RBMX depletion by RNA-Seq in human cells (MDA-MB-231 and existing RNA-Seq data from HEK293 cells), complemented by iCLIP to analyze the binding targets of FLAG-tagged RBMX in HEK293 cells. The findings convincingly demonstrate that - like RBMXL2 - RBMX mainly acts as a splicing repressor and that it particularly acts to protect the integrity of very long ("ultra-long") exons, defined as those over 1000 nt. Upon RBMX depletion, many of these exons are shortened due to the use of cryptic 5' and/or 3' splice sites. Moreover, affected genes are particularly enriched for functions associated with genome integrity - indeed "comet assays" show that RBMX depletion leads to DNA damage defects. Strikingly, RNA-Seq analysis showed that overexpression of RBMXL2 is able to complement the majority of splicing changes caused by RBMX depletion, particularly those involving ultra-long exons. In a smaller scale experiment RBMY was also able to complement effects of RBMX knockdown upon three target events in the ETAA1, REV3L and ATRX genes.

In addition to these core findings the manuscript also includes some experiments that begin to address more mechanistic questions, such as the potential for RBMX to sterically block access of spliceosome components to splice site elements, and preliminary structure-function analyses of RBMX showing that its RRM domain is not necessary for splicing regulatory activity on the ETAA1, REV3L and ATRX target events.

In summary, this manuscript provides clear and convincing evidence to support the role of RBMX in somatic cells as a repressor of cryptic splice sites in ultra-long exons, mirroring the function of RBMXL2 in meiotic cells. It therefore demonstrates how the RBMX/RBMXL2/RBMY family perform a key role in protecting the transcriptomic integrity of ultra-long exons.

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

(1) The conclusions in the text are very broad and general but often based on a limited number of examples. It would be important that the authors hit the appropriate tone when most of the analysis (in Figure 5) is derived from n=3 events.

We have tried to hit the correct tone here by modifying our manuscript text. In particular we have we have added a pie chart to Figure 4 (Figure 4C, that summarises data from all RBMX targets, not just the original n=3, and shows that most RBMX targets are rescued by RBMXL2).

(2) The fractions of long/ultra-long exons actually bound by/regulated by RBMX are not clearly stated - which is in contrast to the general statement of the title (implying a global role for RBMX in proper splicing of ultra-long exons).

(i) We have changed our title (now “An anciently diverged family of RNA binding proteins maintain correct splicing of a class of ultra-long exons through cryptic splice site repression”).

(ii) We also include much more clear text about the fractions of long/ultralong exons bound by RBMX with the following text: 

“…..This led us to test whether RBMX protein is preferentially associated with long exons. For this we plotted the distribution of internal exons bound and regulated by RBMX together with all internal exons expressed from HEK293 mRNA genes (Liu et al., 2017) (Figure 2 – Source Data 1). We found that RBMX controls and binds two different classes of exons: the first have comparable length to the average HEK293 exon, while the second were extremely long, exceeding 1000 bp in length (Figure 2F). We defined this second class as ‘ultra-long exons’, which represented the 18.9% of internal exons regulated by RBMX and 17.6% of the ones that contained RBMX iCLIP tags. These proportions were significantly enriched compared to the general abundance of internal ultra-long exons expressed from HEK293 cells, which was only 0.4% (Figure 2G)……”

“…….We next wondered whether ultra-long exons regulated by RBMX (which represented 11.6% of all ultra-long internal exons from genes expressed in HEK293) had any particular feature compared to ultra-long exons that were RBMX-independent……..”

(3) The authors should state what fraction of ultra-long exons show cryptic splicing in the RBMX siRNA that are corrected by RBMXL2 overexpression (rather than just showing the 3 events). There's some confusion about the global nature of the conclusions relative to the data displayed.

This is a good point. We have used the RNAseq information as suggested, and included a pie chart (Figure 4C) that includes this information.

(4) It would be helpful if the authors could identify if there are some motifs more present in ultra-long exons than others.

Good point, we have included k-mer analysis of the ultra-long exons bound by RBMX, and also more generally ultra-long exons in the human genome, in Figure 2H and 2I. We also add the following text:

K-mer analyses also showed that while ultra-long exons within mRNAs are rich in AT-rich sequences compared to shorter exons (Figure 2H), the ultra-long exons that are either regulated or bound by RBMX displayed enrichment of AG-rich sequences (Figure 2I), consistent with our identified RBMX-recognised sequences (Figure 2C).

(5) The authors should evaluate if RBMX-repressed 3' splice sites have similar or low splice site scores/strengths than natural 3' splice sites.

We have added splice site score analyses in Figure 1F and Figure 1 Supplement 1B. These show that the cryptic splice sites repressed by RBMX are not significantly different from those that are normally used. We add the following text to accompany these figure panels:

“Furthermore, analysis of splice site strength revealed that, unlike splice sites activated by RBMX (Figure 1 – Figure supplement 1B), alternative splice sites repressed by RBMX have comparable strength to more commonly used splice sites (Figure 1F). This means that RBMX operates as a splicing repressor in human somatic cells to prevent use of ‘decoy’ splice sites that could disrupt normal patterns of gene expression.”

(6) The section "RBMX protein-RNA interactions may insulate important splicing signals from the spliceosome." is a very preliminary look at possible mechanisms. Can you integrate the RNA Seq and CLIP datasets to generate "splicing maps" that would provide more generalized insights? In fact, where possible, it would be great to integrate the iCLIP data from the same cell types to generate RNA splicing maps (with the KD RNA-seq data)

We have added “RNA map-type” plots to integrate iCLIP data with splicing patterns (Figure 2 Figure supplement 1D and 1E), and made corresponding changes to the text.

Additional changes

We also made some extra changes to respond to the further points raised by reviewers.

(1) We have carried out gene ontology analysis of those genes that contain RBMX-regulated ultra-long exons versus all ultra-long exons (now Figure 3A, and also Figure 3- Figure supplement 1A and 1B).

(2) We have corrected the cartoon summarising the branch point analysis (now Figure 3 – Figure Supplement 2F).

eLife assessment

This study presents a valuable finding that the blood-brain barrier functionality changes with age and differs between males and females. The analysis is solid, comprising a large and racially diverse dataset, and utilizes a contrast-agent-free MRI method. Since limited work has been done in the MRI field on the blood-brain barrier using this method, this study is of great interest to neuroimaging researchers and clinicians.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

Summary:<br /> This work revealed an important finding that the blood-brain barrier (BBB) functionality changes with age and is more pronounced in males. The authors applied a non-invasive, contrast-agent-free approach of MRI called diffusion-prepared arterial spin labeling (DP-pCASL) to a large cohort of healthy human volunteers. DP-pCASL works by tracking the movement of magnetically labeled water (spins) in blood as it perfuses brain tissue. It probes the molecular diffusion of water, which is sensitive to microstructural barriers, and characterizes the signal coming from fast-moving spins as blood and slow-moving spins as tissue, using different diffusion gradients (b-values). This differentiation is then used to assess the water exchange rates (kw) across the BBB, which acts as a marker for BBB functionality. The main finding of the authors is that kw decreases with age, and in some brain regions, kw decreased faster in males. The neuroprotective role of the female sex hormone, estrogen, on BBB function is discussed as one of the explanations for this finding, supported by literature. The study also shows that BBB function remains stable until the early 60s and remarkably decreases thereafter.

Strengths:<br /> The two main strengths of the study are the MRI method used and the amount of data. The authors employed a contrast-agent-free MRI method called ASL, which offers the opportunity to repeat such experiments multiple times without any health risk-a significant advantage of ASL. Since ASL is an emerging field that requires further exploration and testing, a study evaluating blood-brain barrier functionality is of great importance. The authors utilized a large dataset of healthy humans, where volunteer data from various studies were combined to create a substantial pool. This strategy is effective for statistically evaluating differences in age and gender.

Weaknesses:<br /> The findings are of great interest as this assessment is the first of its kind to assess BBB function using ASL. Further studies are needed to compare DP-ASL findings with more established methods, such as PET and BBB molecular/ blood biomarkers.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):<br /> Summary:<br /> This study used a novel diffusion-weighted pseudo-continuous arterial spin labelling (pCASL) technique to simultaneously explore age- and sex-related differences in brain tissue perfusion (i.e., cerebral blood flow (CBF) & arterial transit time (ATT) - a measure of CBF delivery to brain tissue) and blood-brain barrier (BBB) function, measured as the water exchange (kw) across the BBB. While age- and sex-related effects on CBF are well known, this study provides new insights to support the growing evidence of these important factors in cerebrovascular health, particularly in BBB function. Across the brain, decline in CBF and BBB function (kw) and elevation in ATT was reported in older adults, after the age of 60 and more so in males compared to females. This was also evident in key cognitive regions including the insular, prefrontal, and medial temporal regions, stressing the consideration of age and sex in these brain physiological assessments.

Strengths:<br /> Simultaneous assessment of CBF with BBB along with transit time and at the voxel-level helped elucidate the brain's vulnerability to age and sex-effects. It is apparent that the investigators carefully designed this study to assess regional associations of age and sex with attention to exploring potential non-linear effects.

Weaknesses:<br /> It appears that no brain region showed concurrent CBF and BBB dysfunction (kw), based on the results reported in the main manuscript and supplemental information. Was an association analysis between CBF and kw performed? There is a potential effect of the level of formal education on CBF (PMID: 12633147; 15534055), which could have been considered and accounted for as well, especially for a cohort with stated diversity (age, race, sex).

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

Summary:

This work revealed an important finding that the blood-brain barrier (BBB) functionality changes with age and is more pronounced in males. The authors applied a non-invasive, contrast-agent-free approach of MRI called diffusion-prepared arterial spin labeling (DP-pCASL) to a large cohort of healthy human volunteers. DP-pCASL works by tracking the movement of magnetically labeled water (spins) in blood as it perfuses brain tissue. It probes the molecular diffusion of water, which is sensitive to microstructural barriers, and characterizes the signal coming from fast-moving spins as blood and slow-moving spins as tissue, using different diffusion gradients (b-values). This differentiation is then used to assess the water exchange rates (kw) across the BBB, which acts as a marker for BBB functionality. The main finding of the authors is that kw decreases with age, and in some brain regions, kw decreases faster in males. The neuroprotective role of the female sex hormone, estrogen, on BBB function is discussed as one of the explanations for this finding, supported by literature. The study also shows that BBB function remains stable until the early 60s and remarkably decreases thereafter.

Strengths:

The two main strengths of the study are the MRI method used and the amount of data. The authors employed a contrast-agent-free MRI method called ASL, which offers the opportunity to repeat such experiments multiple times without any health risk - a significant advantage of ASL. Since ASL is an emerging field that requires further exploration and testing, a study evaluating blood-brain barrier functionality is of great importance. The authors utilized a large dataset of healthy humans, where volunteer data from various studies were combined to create a substantial pool. This strategy is effective for statistically evaluating differences in age and gender.

Weaknesses:

R1.0: Gender-related differences are only present in some brain regions, not in the whole brain or gray matter - which is usually the assumption unless stated otherwise. From the title, this was not clear. Including simulations could increase readers' understanding related to model fitting and the interdependence of parameters, if present. The discussion follows a clear line of argument supported by literature; however, focusing solely on AQP4 channels and missing a critical consideration of other known/proven changes in transport mechanisms through the BBB and their effects substantially weakens the discussion. 

Thanks for your insightful feedback and suggestions. We have made the following changes to the manuscript:

(1) The title has been modified to highlight the sex differences in specific brain regions: “Age-Related Decline in Blood-Brain Barrier Function is More Pronounced in Males than Females in Parietal and Temporal Regions.”

(2) To study the potential impact of prolonged ATT seen in males on estimated kw, we simulated kw distribution for females by adjusting ATT by +60 ms to match males' ATT. This led to marginally higher kw values (Supplemental Figure S2), suggesting that the kw difference between males and females is not a direct result of prolonged ATT. Additionally, we have added a section titled “Data and Code Availability Statements” in the revised manuscript to indicate that we are willing to share the reconstruction toolbox with interested groups. The toolbox is a standalone MATLAB-based program (no license required) to generate kw, CBF, and ATT maps, which can run on Windows or Mac computers.

(3) We agree with the reviewer that BBB water exchange can be facilitated by other transport mechanisms, as we mentioned in the introduction: “Water exchange across the BBB occurs at a relatively high level and is mediated by passive diffusion, active co-transport through the endothelial membrane, and facilitated diffusion through the dedicated water channel, aquaporin-4 (AQP4), at the end-feet of astrocytes.” We emphasized our findings related to AQP4 based on the technical properties of DP-pCASL, which is more sensitive to the exchange occurring across astrocyte end-feet. We also acknowledge that different techniques can be helpful to study other components of BBB water exchange, and we have added the following discussion to the updated manuscript: “Mahroo et al., utilized a multi-echo ASL technique to measure BBB permeability to water and reported shorter intra-voxel transit time and lower BBB exchange time (Tex) in the older participants (≥50 years) compared to the younger group (≤20 years). In animal studies, reduced BBB Tex was also reported in the older mice compared to the younger group using multi-echo ASL and a multi-flip-angle, multi-echo dynamic contrast-enhanced (MFAME-DCE) MRI method. These findings contrast with the results presented in this study, likely due to the different components assessed by different techniques, and increased BBB permeability to water has been suggested to indicate a leakage of tight junctions in aging. In contrast, our recent study utilizing high resolution MCDW-pCASL scans with long averages reveals the potential existence of an intermediate stage of water exchange between vascular and tissue compartments (e.g., paravascular space or basal lamina). The DP module of the DP-pCASL is hypothesized to null the fast-flowing and pseudo-random oriented spins, which may include both vascular flow and less restricted water in paravascular space. The observed lower kw in older participants may be more related to the delayed exchange across the astrocyte end-feet into the tissue due to loss of AQP-4 water channel with older age. However, these hypotheses require further investigation to understand the exact mechanisms, especially under different physiological states. Future studies, particularly with animal models targeting specific BBB components under different physiological or diseased conditions, will be valuable for validating these measurements.”

Reviewer #1 (Recommendations For The Authors): 

R1.1 The manuscript is well-organized and presents arguments in a logical order. The visual representation of results in the form of figures is sufficient (see style suggestions below). 

Thanks for your suggestions on improving the figures, we have updated figures for better visualization (Please see our response to R1.5, R1.6, R1.7 and R1.8).

R1.2 It would be beneficial if the model/toolbox could be made publicly available so that fellow researchers from the community could apply and test it in their research. 

We have added a section “Data and code availability statements” in the revised manuscript to indicate we’re willing to share the toolbox to the interested groups (L529 in the annotated manuscript). The toolbox is a standalone MATLAB-based program (no license required) to generate kw, CBF and ATT maps, which can run on windows or MAC computers. Indeed, we have been sharing our reconstruction toolbox with over 50 collaboration sites. The following screenshots are examples of three steps performed by the toolbox (shared by one collaborator):

Author response image 1.

Step 1: Loading raw data and calculate T1 map

Author response image 2.

Step 2: Motion correction and skull stripping

Author response image 3.

Step 3: kw, CBF and ATT quantification (nii files will be saved)

R1.3 Line 46 states that the technique is novel, but it has been introduced and used before (Shao, et al. MRM 2019). It sure is innovative but the term novel is too strong and may confuse the readers that it is something new introduced in this manuscript.

Thanks for the suggestion, we agree the term ‘novel’ may cause confusion about the technique, we have removed it in the revised manuscript (L48, L50).

R1.4 Line 395, kw was generated using PLD = 1.8s with b = 0, 50 s/mm2. Is only one-time point enough for estimating kw? To me, it is not clear how robust is the kw estimation with only one PLD.

According to the single-pass approximation (SPA) model (1), kw can be accurately estimated when the PLD is longer than the ATT. We recruited cognitively normal participants in this study and found the longest ATT to be 1526.7±117.4 and 1468.1±166.9 ms in aged (62-92 years) males and females, respectively. A PLD of 1.8 s was chosen to balance the SNR of the data and the accuracy of the model fitting, which should be sufficient for this study. However, for future studies involving diseased populations with prolonged ATT, a longer PLD should be used, or a multi-PLD protocol could be helpful to improve the robustness of quantification accuracy.

We have added a limitation statement in the revised manuscript (L407): "A single PLD of 1800 ms was used in this study, which should be sufficient to allow all the labeled water to reach the tissue (i.e., the longest ATT was 1526.7±117.4 and 1468.1±166.9 ms in aged males and females, respectively) (1). However, a longer PLD should be used in participants with longer expected ATT, such as in stroke and cerebrovascular disorders. Additionally, a multi-PLD protocol can also be helpful to improve the robustness of quantification accuracy (2)."

R1.5 Suggestion: Figure 3A, colormap for kw appears suboptimal. Regional differences are hard to see.

Thanks for the suggestion, we have updated the range of color scale (from [0, 200], to [70, 160]) to highlight the regional differences in the updated Figure 3:

We prefer to use the same blue colormap that we and our collaborators have been using this for publications to maintain consistence. We also acknowledged the limitation of the spatial resolution of kw maps in the updated manuscript (L412): “To compensate for the half signal loss of the non-CPMG DP module, relatively low spatial resolution and TGV-regularized SPA modeling were employed. Our recently development of a motion-compensated diffusion weighted (MCDW)-pCASL can be utilized to improve the spatial resolution in the future studies (e.g. 3.5 mm3 isotropic maps in 10 mins) (2)”

R1.6 Suggestion: use same/similar colormaps for the same parameters (kw, ATT, CBF) to help the reader follow across Figures 3, 4, and 5.

Thanks for your suggestion, we agree that using the same color would be easier for readers to follow the context. However, figures 4 and 5 were created to show the age and sex dependent changes, so that we used warm and cold colors to indicate effects of decrease and increase, respectively. We clarified the choice of colormap in the figure captions (L260, L284): “The effects of decrease or increase were represented by warm colors (yellow to red) and cold (gray to blue) colors, respectively.”

R1.7 Suggestion: please be consistent with the ordering of parameters in Figures 3, 4, and 5.

Thanks for the suggestion, we have updated Figure 3 to consistently show kw, CBF and ATT results in order from left to right:

R1.8 Suggestion: use the same scaling (e.g.[|1.9|, |11 |] for Fig. 4, [|1.9|, |4|] for Figure 5) to enhance comparability across parameters in the subfigures.

Thanks for the suggestion, we agree that the same scaling would enhance the comparability across parameters. We have updated the color scales for Figure 5 using maximal |T| = 4:

However, range of maximal |T| was relatively large for Figure 4 (i.e. 5 for kw, 11 for CBF and 7 for ATT), and using the same color scale might oversaturate the regional responses or diminish the visibility of regional differences. Therefore, we prefer to keep the original color scale for Figure 4.

R1.9 In Figure 5, the interaction of age with sex in kw parameter seems to be more on one side of the brain. What could be the reasons for possible lateralization? 

We agree with the reviewer that the age and sex interaction effects emphasized on one side is an interesting finding. While we do not have a clear explanation now, we suspect it may relate to aging-related asymmetrical vascular burdens. Giannakopoulos et al. reported that vascular scores, indicating higher vascular burden, were significantly higher in the left hemisphere across all Clinical Dementia Rating scores. Moreover, the predominance of Alzheimer’s disease and vascular pathology in the right hemisphere correlated with significantly higher Clinical Dementia Rating scores  (3). We added the following to the updated manuscript to discuss this potential mechanism (L370): “… We also observed an asymmetric effect on left and right brain hemispheres, which might be associated with asymmetrically developed vascular burdens in aging (3)."

R1.10 A comparison between the present study and DCE MRI as well as other ASL methods evaluating BBB function with age is missing. ASL techniques probing transverse relaxation and DCE MRI have reported increased kw with age in humans as well as in animal models. What could be the reasons? 

We agree with the reviewer that BBB water exchange measured by other methods should be sufficiently discussed, especially regarding their age-related changes. We added the following discussion in the updated manuscript (L415): “Mahroo et al., utilized a multi-echo ASL technique to measure BBB permeability to water and reported shorter intra-voxel transit time and lower BBB exchange time (Tex) in the older participants (≥50 years) compared to the younger group (≤20 years) (4). In animal studies, reduced BBB Tex was also reported in the older mice compared to the younger group using multi-echo ASL (5) and a multi-flip-angle, multi-echo dynamic contrast-enhanced (MFAME-DCE) MRI method (6). These findings contrast with the results presented in this study, likely due to the different components assessed by different techniques, and increased BBB permeability to water has been suggested to indicate a leakage of tight junctions in aging (5, 6). In contrast, our recent study utilizing high resolution MCDW-pCASL scans with long averages reveals the potential existence of an intermediate stage of water exchange between vascular and tissue compartments (e.g., paravascular space or basal lamina) (2). The DP module of the DP-pCASL is hypothesized to null the fast-flowing and pseudo-random oriented spins, which may include both vascular flow and less restricted water in paravascular space. The observed lower kw in older participants may be more related to the delayed exchange across the astrocyte end-feet into the tissue due to loss of AQP-4 water channel with older age. However, these hypotheses require further investigation to understand the exact mechanisms, especially under different physiological states (7, 8). Future studies, particularly with animal models targeting specific BBB components under different physiological or diseased conditions, will be valuable for validating these measurements (9-13).”

R1.11 Line 163/164, a rapid decrease of CBF in males in the region of the hippocampus is reported. It would be beneficial to discuss this in discussion further (has this been reported before, possible reasons, etc). 

Thanks for the suggestion, we agree that the accelerated CBF decline in males in the hippocampus is an important finding, we have added discussion in the revised manuscript (L300): "Furthermore, we found a more pronounced age-related decline in CBF in the hippocampus of males compared to females (Fig. 2, Supplemental Table S2). To the best of our knowledge, no study has previously reported this accelerated hippocampal CBF decline in males. This finding may be linked to the accelerated hippocampal volume loss in males, as reported in a study analyzing 19,793 generally healthy UK Biobank participants (14). Lower hippocampal perfusion has been associated with poor memory performance (15, 16), suggesting that males might be more vulnerable to potential cognitive decline (17).

R1.12 Lines 198-202 describe a simulation done to test the dependence of kw on ATT. This is important and could be explained more in detail. Adding simulation results (numeric or figure) to supplementary materials would increase reproducibility and understanding for others. 

We apologize for not referencing to the simulation results in the main text. We simulated kw distribution for females by adjusting ATT by +60 ms to matching males’ ATT, leading to a marginally higher kw values. And these results were shown in the Supplemental Figure S2 C (yellow):

We have now referenced the simulation results in the updated manuscript (L206).

R1.13 No limitations of the presented work are mentioned. A critical perspective would increase the scientific impact on future research decisions and implementation of this method by others. 

Thanks for the suggestion, we agree the limitations need to be acknowledged. We have added a limitation paragraph in the revised manuscript (L406): "Limitations of the study and future directions: There are a few limitations of this study. A single PLD of 1800 ms was used in this study, which should be sufficient to allow all the labeled water to reach the tissue (i.e., the longest ATT was 1526.7±117.4 and 1468.1±166.9 ms in aged males and females, respectively) (1). However, a longer PLD should be used in participants with longer expected ATT, such as in stroke and cerebrovascular disorders. Additionally, a multi-PLD protocol can also be helpful to improve the robustness of quantification accuracy (2). To compensate for the half signal loss of the non-CPMG DP module, relatively low spatial resolution and TGV-regularized SPA modeling were employed. Our recently development of a motion-compensated diffusion weighted (MCDW)-pCASL can be utilized to improve the spatial resolution in the future studies (e.g. 3.5 mm3 isotropic maps in 10 mins) (2). Mahroo et al., utilized a multi-echo ASL technique to measure BBB permeability to water and reported shorter intra-voxel transit time and lower BBB exchange time (Tex) in the older participants (≥50 years) compared to the younger group (≤20 years) (4). In animal studies, reduced BBB Tex was also reported in the older mice compared to the younger group using multi-echo ASL (5) and a multi-flip-angle, multi-echo dynamic contrast-enhanced (MFAME-DCE) MRI method (6). These findings contrast with the results presented in this study, likely due to the different components assessed by different techniques, and increased BBB permeability to water has been suggested to indicate a leakage of tight junctions in aging (5, 6). In contrast, our recent study utilizing high resolution MCDW-pCASL scans with long averages reveals the potential existence of an intermediate stage of water exchange between vascular and tissue compartments (e.g., paravascular space or basal lamina) (2). The DP module of the DP-pCASL is hypothesized to null the fast-flowing and pseudo-random oriented spins, which may include both vascular flow and less restricted water in paravascular space. The observed lower kw in older participants may be more related to the delayed exchange across the astrocyte end-feet into the tissue due to loss of AQP-4 water channel with older age. However, these hypotheses require further investigation to understand the exact mechanisms, especially under different physiological stages (7, 8). Future studies, particularly with animal models targeting specific BBB components under different physiological or diseased conditions, will be valuable for validating these measurements (9-13). Including race as a covariate in our study aims to account for potential variations in brain perfusion observed in previous research (18, 19). However, it is important to recognize that these differences may not be solely attributable to race. They can be influenced by a complex interplay of factors such as education, environmental exposures, lifestyle, healthcare access, and other social determinants of health (20). For example, education has been shown to be highly relevant to regional CBF changes in AD (21, 22). Additionally, the potential influence of ancestry and mixed-race on perfusion and BBB function requires further investigation in future studies. Other factors such as hematocrit (23), menopausal status (24, 25), and vascular risk factors (26) should also be considered. These variables were not included in this study due to the unavailability or limited availability in some cohorts. We attempted to minimize the impact of these factors on our observations by including a relatively large and diverse sample. However, future studies examining the specific mechanism of each of these factors on BBB function in aging would be valuable.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Summary: 

This study used a novel diffusion-weighted pseudo-continuous arterial spin labelling (pCASL) technique to simultaneously explore age- and sex-related differences in brain tissue perfusion (i.e., cerebral blood flow (CBF) & arterial transit time (ATT) - a measure of CBF delivery to brain tissue) and blood-brain barrier (BBB) function, measured as the water exchange (kw) across the BBB. While age- and sex-related effects on CBF are well known, this study provides new insights to support the growing evidence of these important factors in cerebrovascular health, particularly in BBB function. Across the brain, the decline in CBF and BBB function (kw) and elevation in ATT were reported in older adults, after the age of 60, and more so in males compared to females. This was also evident in key cognitive regions including the insular, prefrontal, and medial temporal regions, stressing the consideration of age and sex in these brain physiological assessments. 

Strengths: 

Simultaneous assessment of CBF with BBB along with transit time and at the voxel-level helped elucidate the brain's vulnerability to age and sex-effects. It is apparent that the investigators carefully designed this study to assess regional associations of age and sex with attention to exploring potential non-linear effects. 

Weaknesses: 

R2.0 It appears that no brain region showed concurrent CBF and BBB dysfunction (kw), based on the results reported in the main manuscript and supplemental information. Was an association analysis between CBF and kw performed? There is a potential effect of the level of formal education on CBF (PMID: 12633147; 15534055), which could have been considered and accounted for as well, especially for a cohort with stated diversity (age, race, sex). 

Thank you for your positive feedback and comments on the potential associations between BBB kw and other physiological parameters (e.g., CBF) and socioeconomic factors (e.g., education). We have made the following changes to the updated manuscript:

(1) We conducted additional linear regressions between regional kw and regional CBF or ATT, incorporating sex as a covariate, for participants aged 8-61 years and 62-92 years (when BBB kw starts declining). The results are summarized in Supplemental Table S6. We found that BBB kw was significantly negatively associated with CBF in the putamen, amygdala, hippocampus, parahippocampal gyrus, and medial temporal lobe in participants younger than 62 years, when kw was relatively consistent across ages. However, no significant correlations were found in any brain regions in the 62-92 years group. In contrast to CBF, kw was significantly negatively associated with ATT in the GM, temporal lobe, and precuneus in participants aged 8-61 years, and these correlations became significant in additional ROIs, including WM, frontal lobe, ACC, caudate, putamen, amygdala, hippocampus, PHG, and MTL in participants aged 62-92 years. These results suggest that BBB function may be influenced by different aspects of neurovascular function represented by CBF and ATT at different stages of aging.

(2) One limitation of this study is the lack of information on participants’ geographical, cultural, physical characteristics, and socioeconomic factors. While we included race as a covariate to account for potential variations observed in previous research, race is an imprecise proxy for the complex interplay of genetic, environmental, socioeconomic, and cultural factors that influence physiological outcomes. We have acknowledged this limitation by adding the following discussion in the updated manuscript: “Including race as a covariate in our study aims to account for potential variations in brain perfusion observed in previous research. However, it is important to recognize that these differences may not be solely attributable to race. They can be influenced by a complex interplay of factors such as education, environmental exposures, lifestyle, healthcare access, and other social determinants of health. For example, education has been shown to be highly relevant to regional CBF changes in AD. Additionally, the potential influence of ancestry and mixed-race on perfusion and BBB function requires further investigation in future studies.”

Reviewer #2 (Recommendations For The Authors): 

General comments: 

I commend the authors on a very well-written and laid-out study. General remarks have been provided in the short assessment and public review sections. 

We would like to thank the reviewer for the insightful suggestions and overall positive feedback. We have substantial revised and improved our manuscript, and point-to-point responses can be found in the following sections and in the annotated manuscript.

Specific comments: 

Results: 

R2.1 Line 127: "since race may influence the changes in perfusion and kw with aging, it was included as a covariate". It is not clear how race - a simplistic term for ethnicity or to be more specific ancestry has been shown to influence changes in perfusion? Is it known for a fact that for example, older Black people have lower/higher CBF or kw compared to Asians or Asians to Caucasian Americans? Can this be extrapolated to Japanese Brazilians having different patterns of regional CBF to Caucasian or Black Brazilians or similar patterns of CBF to Japanese people in Japan since they share similar race? Do Dutch people in the Netherlands share CBF characteristics to their descendants in the US or in South Africa? Would the geographical, cultural, and other physical characteristics of one's ethnicity or lineage impact CBF? Race is often used as a poor substitute for the complex interactions of physical, socioeconomic, and geopolitical factors that produce disparities that may have measurable biological effects including CBF. But it is not clear why being one race vs the other will impact CBF, without carefully parcelling out the many factors beyond biology, if any. Is any of the participants in the study mixed race? How about recently settled individuals who may identify for example as Black but have spent all their life up to adult years outside of the US and marked here in the study as simply African American? Not that I am saying this is the case. However this simplification may require more careful analysis. 

In our study, no participant indicated to be mixed-race, and unfortunately we do not have additional information about their specific ancestry or information about their geographical, cultural, and other physical characteristics. We acknowledge that race is an imprecise proxy for the complex interplay of genetic, environmental, socioeconomic, and cultural factors that influence physiological outcomes, including perfusion and BBB function. The use of race as a covariate in our study is intended to account for potential variations observed in previous research, rather than to imply a direct causal relationship.

Research has shown differences in blood flow among racial groups (18, 19). However, these differences are not solely attributable to race, and they are also shaped by environmental exposures, lifestyle factors, healthcare access, and other social determinants of health (20). We have added the following discussion in the updated manuscript (L436): “Including race as a covariate in our study aims to account for potential variations in brain perfusion observed in previous research (18, 19). However, it is important to recognize that these differences may not be solely attributable to race. They can be influenced by a complex interplay of factors such as education, environmental exposures, lifestyle, healthcare access, and other social determinants of health (20). For example, education has been shown to be highly relevant to regional CBF changes in AD (21, 22). Additionally, the potential influence of ancestry and mixed-race on perfusion and BBB function requires further investigation in future studies.”

R2.2 Figure 3: Could the standard deviation of the reported values be also stated so the variance can be appreciated? 

Thanks for the suggestion, we have added the standard deviation of the kw, CBF and ATT values on the updated Figure 3:

R2.3 Discussions: Line 280: .."observed distinct trajectory of kw changes with aging as compared with CBF and ATT. I presume this as compared to the earlier statements (line 268) of pervasive increase in ATT and decrease in CBF across the brain. Were there any brain regions that showed increased ATT, decreased CBF and kw as a function of age or even sex?? Was there any association between CBF and kw in any brain regions, across the participants after controlling for sex differences? If there is a suspicion of early BBB dysfunction (line 286) preceding cognitive decline that has been also suspected with CBF, is this concomitant with CBF in most people? This could maybe make CBF an easier and more straightforward biomarker since its effects mirror that of BBB? I suspect it generally does not, even in healthy aging. It would have been great to shed more light on this with your results and in your discussion.

Thank you for your comments. By 'distinct trajectory of kw changes with aging,' we refer to the ‘turning point’ in age at which kw starts declining. BBB kw remained relatively stable and began to decline in the early 60s, while CBF consistently decreased and ATT consistently increased with age, although the rates of change differed at 22 years and 36 years, respectively. Using linear regressions for voxel analysis, Figure 4 shows that age-dependent decreases in CBF and increases in ATT were observed in most of the brain. However, significant age-related decreases in kw were more localized to specific brain regions and were mostly accompanied by simultaneous decreases in CBF and increases in ATT. We highlighted this finding in the updated manuscript (L250): “In the brain regions showing significant age-related kw decreases (Fig. 4A), these decreases are mostly accompanied by CBF decreases (Fig. 4B) and ATT increases (Fig. 4C).”

Thank you for your suggestion regarding the relationship between kw and CBF. We further conducted linear regressions between regional kw and regional CBF or ATT, incorporating sex as a covariate, for participants aged 8-61 years and 62-92 years (when BBB kw starts declining). The results are summarized Supplemental Table S6.

This new supplemental tables shows many interesting results. BBB kw was significantly negatively associated with CBF in the putamen, amygdala, hippocampus, parahippocampal gyrus, and medial temporal lobe in participants younger than 62 years, when kw was relatively consistent across ages. However, no significant correlations were found in any brain regions in the 62-92 years group. In contrast to CBF, kw was significantly negatively associated with ATT in the GM, temporal lobe, and precuneus in participants aged 8-61 years, and these correlations became significant in additional ROIs, including WM, frontal lobe, ACC, caudate, putamen, amygdala, hippocampus, PHG, and MTL in participants aged 62-92 years.

We have added the following discussion to the updated manuscript (L307): 'We observed a distinct trajectory of kw changes with aging compared to CBF and ATT. To study the potential regional associations between kw and CBF and ATT, we conducted linear regressions between regional kw and regional CBF or ATT, incorporating sex as a covariate, for participants aged 8-61 years and 62-92 years (when BBB kw starts declining), respectively. The results are shown in Supplemental Table S6. BBB kw was significantly negatively associated with CBF in the putamen, amygdala, hippocampus, PHG, and MTL in participants aged 8-61 years (when kw was relatively consistent across ages), but no significant correlations were found in any brain regions in the 62-92 years group. In contrast to CBF, kw was significantly negatively associated with ATT in the GM, temporal lobe, and precuneus in participants aged 8-61 years, and these correlations became significant in additional brain regions, including WM, frontal lobe, ACC, caudate, putamen, amygdala, hippocampus, PHG, and MTL in participants aged 62-92 years. These results suggest that BBB function may be affected by different aspects of neurovascular function represented by CBF and ATT at different stages of aging."

Other notes: 

R2.4 While reading the results section, two things that jump out at me when I saw the sex differences: 1) hematocrit and 2) menopausal status. I saw in the discussion that these were touched on. I may have missed this in the methods, was hematocrit collected and included in the parameters estimates?? Was the menopausal status including ERT (estrogen replacement therapies) recorded and factored in? If not these could be included as limitations that may confound the results, especially when the age groups were split to include a group comprising or potentially both pre-and post-menopausal females (36-61). 

We do not have the information about hematocrit nor menopausal status and they were not included in data analysis. We agree this is a limitation of the current study and we discussed in the updated manuscript (L442): “Other factors such as hematocrit (23), menopausal status (24, 25), and vascular risk factors (26) should also be considered. These variables were not included in this study due to data unavailability or limited availability in some cohorts. We attempted to minimize the impact of these factors on our observations by including a relatively large and diverse sample. However, future studies examining the specific mechanism of each of these factors on BBB function in aging would be valuable.”

R2.5 The general vascular health of the cohort is not well described especially if some of the participants were from sickle cell study. While they are cognitively normal and free from major medical illnesses, or neurological disorders, did the sample also include individuals with considerable vascular risk factors and metabolic syndrome (known to affect CBF), especially in the older cohort?? 

We agree with the reviewer that vascular health can significantly impact perfusion and BBB function. Since the data presented in this study were collected from multiple cohorts, vascular risk factors were not available in all cohorts and thus were not included as covariates in the data analysis. To account for potential vascular variations across participants, we included CBF and ATT as covariates in our analysis on age related BBB kw changes. We have added discussion in the updated manuscript (L442, same as our response to the previous comment): “Other factors such as hematocrit (23), menopausal status (24, 25), and vascular risk factors (26) should also be considered. These variables were not included in this study due to data unavailability or limited availability in some cohorts. We attempted to minimize the impact of these factors on our observations by including a relatively large and diverse sample. However, future studies examining the specific mechanism of each of these factors on BBB function in aging would be valuable.”.

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eLife assessment

Peng et al. reported important findings that 36THz high-frequency terahertz stimulation (HFTS) could suppress the activity of pyramidal neurons by enhancing the conductance of voltage-gated potassium channels. The significance of the findings in this paper is that chronic pain remains a significant medical problem, and there is a need to find non-pharmacological interventions for treatment. The authors present convincing evidence that high-frequency stimulation of the anterior cingulate cortex can alter neuronal activity and improve sensory pain behaviors in mice.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

In this manuscript, by using simulation, in vitro and in vivo electrophysiology, and behavioral tests, Peng et al. nicely showed a new approach for the treatment of neuropathic pain in mice. They found that terahertz (THz) waves increased Kv conductance and decreased the frequency of action potentials in pyramidal neurons in the ACC region. Behaviorally, terahertz (THz) waves alleviated neuropathic pain in the mouse model. Overall, this is an interesting study. The experimental design is clear, the data is presented well, and the paper is well-written.

I have a few suggestions.<br /> (1) The authors provide strong theoretical and experimental evidence for the impact of voltage-gated potassium channels by terahertz wave frequency. However, the modulation of action potential also relies on non-voltage-dependent ion channels. For example, I noticed that the RMP was affected by THz application (Fig. 3F) as well. As the RMP is largely regulated by the leak potassium channels (Tandem-pore potassium channels), I would suggest testing whether terahertz wave photons have also any impact on the Kleak channels as well.

(2) The activation curves of the Kv currents in Fig. 2h seem to be not well-fitted. I would suggest testing a higher voltage (>100 mV) to collect more data to achieve a better fitting.

(3) In the part of behavior tests, the pain threshold increased after THz application and lasted within 60 mins. I suggest conducting prolonged tests to determine the end of the analgesic effect of terahertz waves.

(4) Regarding in vivo electrophysiological recordings, the post-HFTS recordings were acquired from a time window of up to 20 min. It seems that the HFTS effect lasted for minutes, but this was not tested in vitro where they looked at potassium currents. This long-lasting effect of HFTS is interesting. Can the authors discuss it and its possible mechanisms, or test it in slice electrophysiological experiments?

(5) How did the authors arrange the fiber for HFTS delivery and the electrode for in vivo multi-channel recordings? Providing a schematic illustration in Fig. 4 would be useful.

(6) Language is largely OK, but some grammar errors should be corrected.

The authors have completely addressed my concerns. I have no further comments.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Summary:

In this manuscript, Peng et al., reported that 36THz high-frequency terahertz stimulation (HFTS) can suppress the activity of pyramidal neurons through enhancing the conductance of voltage-gated potassium channel. The authors also demonstrated the effectiveness of using 36THz HFTS for treating neuropathic pain.

Strengths:

The manuscript is well written and the conclusions are supported by robust results. This study highlighted the potential of using 36THz HFTS for neuromodulation.

Weaknesses:

More characterization of HFTS is needed, so the readers can have a better assessment of the potential usage of HFTS in their own applications.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

My summary of the manuscript remains the same and is as follows:

This manuscript by Peng et al. presents intriguing data indicating that high-frequency terahertz stimulation (HFTS) of the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) can alleviate neuropathic pain behaviors in mice. Specifically, the investigators report that terahertz (THz) frequency stimulation widens the selectivity filter of potassium channels thereby increasing potassium conductance leading to a reduction in the excitability of cortical neurons. In voltage clamp recordings from layer 5 ACC pyramidal neurons in acute brain slice, Peng et al. show that HFTS enhances K current while showing minimal effects on Na current. Current clamp recording analyses show that the spared nerve injury model of neuropathic pain decreases the current threshold for action potential (AP) generation and increases evoked AP frequency in layer 5 ACC pyramidal neurons, which is consistent with previous studies. Data are presented showing that ex-vivo treatment with HFTS in slice reduces these SNI-induced changes to excitability in layer 5 ACC pyramidal neurons. The authors also confirm that HFTS reduces excitability of layer 5 ACC pyramidal neurons via in vivo multi-channel recordings from SNI mice. Lastly, the authors show that HFTS is effective at reducing mechanical allodynia in SNI using both the von Frey and Catwalk analyses. Overall, there is considerable enthusiasm for the findings presented in this manuscript given the need for non-pharmacological treatments for pain in the clinical setting.

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

In this manuscript, by using simulation, in vitro and in vivo electrophysiology, and behavioral tests, Peng et al. nicely showed a new approach for the treatment of neuropathic pain in mice. They found that terahertz (THz) waves increased Kv conductance and decreased the frequency of action potentials in pyramidal neurons in the ACC region. Behaviorally, terahertz (THz) waves alleviated neuropathic pain in the mouse model. Overall, this is an interesting study. The experimental design is clear, the data is presented well, and the paper is well-written. I have a few suggestions.

(1) The authors provide strong theoretical and experimental evidence for the impact of voltage-gated potassium channels by terahertz wave frequency. However, the modulation of action potential also relies on non-voltage-dependent ion channels. For example, I noticed that the RMP was affected by THz application (Figure 3F) as well. As the RMP is largely regulated by the leak potassium channels (Tandem-pore potassium channels), I would suggest testing whether terahertz wave photons have also any impact on the Kleak channels as well.

Thank you for your positive comment and for providing us with this valuable suggestion. After testing the leak K+ current with and without HFTS on the SNI model, we observed a notable increase in the leak K+ current with HFTS when the holding potential surpassed -40 mV (please see the revised Figs. 2m and n). This finding prompted us to delve deeper into the shifts in the resting membrane potential (RMP). The data, along with statistical analysis, are detailed in Tables S1-3.

(2) The activation curves of the Kv currents in Figure 2h seem to be not well-fitted. I would suggest testing a higher voltage (>100 mV) to collect more data to achieve a better fitting.

Thanks for your advice. We repeated the experiment while maintaining the voltage of patched neurons at a higher level (>100 mV) to collect ample data for better fitting. The outcomes are illustrated in the revised Figs. 2g-j. Clearly, the data reveals a significant increase in K+ conductance in the HFTS group as compared to the SNI group. We have integrated these discoveries into the revised manuscript, replacing the earlier results.

(3) In the part of behavior tests, the pain threshold increased after THz application and lasted within 60 mins. I suggest conducting prolonged tests to determine the end of the analgesic effect of terahertz waves.

Thank you for your insightful comment. We echo your curiosity about the duration of the HFTS effect. In the process of revising our work, we conducted a comparative analysis of the analgesic duration resulting from 10-minute and 15-minute applications of HFTS. The findings are visualized in the revised Fig. 5c. Our observations indicate that after 160 minutes, the PWMT value for the 15-minute HFTS group decreased to a level comparable to that of the SNI group. Meanwhile, the analgesic effects persisted for 140 minutes in the case of the 10-minute HFTS application. These results imply a direct correlation between the duration of HFTS application and the duration of analgesia.

(4) Regarding in vivo electrophysiological recordings, the post-HFTS recordings were acquired from a time window of up to 20 min. It seems that the HFTS effect lasted for minutes, but this was not tested in vitro where they looked at potassium currents. This long-lasting effect of HFTS is interesting. Can the authors discuss it and its possible mechanisms, or test it in slice electrophysiological experiments?

Thank you for your comment. Based on the results from in vivo electrophysiological recordings, it was observed that the effect of HFTS can endure for a minimum of 20 minutes, and this duration was even more extended in behavioral assessments. Taking your advice, we employed slice electrophysiological recording for further testing. Following a 15-minute application of HFTS, we evaluated the K+ current at 5 and 20 minutes after incubation. Our observations clearly indicated a substantial and lasting increase in K+ current, with the effect persisting for at least 20 minutes (refer to Fig. 2l). This provides confirmation of the long-lasting influence of HFTS. The relevant data and statistical analysis are documented in Table S1-2.

(5) How did the authors arrange the fiber for HFTS delivery and the electrode for in vivo multi-channel recordings? Providing a schematic illustration in Figure 4 would be useful.

Thank you for your comment. To enhance the reader's understanding of the HFTS delivery device during multi-channel recording, we have included a schematic illustration in Fig. 4a in the revised manuscript. The top portion of Fig. 4a depicts a quantum cascade laser (QCL) with a center frequency located at approximately 36 THz. This laser is then connected to the recording electrode via a PIR fiber. The left section illustrates the detailed structure of the recording electrode.

(6) Some grammatical errors should be corrected.

Thank you for your thorough review. We have carefully checked and corrected grammar errors we found throughout the entire text to ensure that readers can better comprehend the content of the article.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

In this manuscript, Peng et al., reported that 36 THz high-frequency terahertz stimulation (HFTS) can suppress the activity of pyramidal neurons by enhancing the conductance of voltage-gated potassium channel. The authors also demonstrated the effectiveness of using 36THz HFTS for treating neuropathic pain.

Strengths:

The manuscript is well written and the conclusions are supported by robust results. This study highlighted the potential of using 36 THz HFTS for neuromodulation.

Weaknesses:

More characterization of HFTS is needed, so the readers can have a better assessment of the potential usage of HFTS in their own applications.

Thank you for your suggestion. We have created schematic diagrams illustrating the HFTS delivery (Fig. 4a and Fig. 5a in the revised manuscript). Fig. 4a presents the structure designed for in vivo multi-channel recording. Fig. 5a shows the structure used in behavior test, the recording electrode is replaced by a metal hollow tube, allowing the PIR fiber to pass through the tube and target the ACC region of the mice.

(1) It would be very helpful to estimate the volume of tissue that can be influenced by HFTS. It is not clear how 15 mins HFTS was chosen for this functional study. Does a longer time have a stronger effect? A better characterization of the relationship between the stimulus duration of HFTS and its beneficial effects would be very useful.

Thank you for your feedback. The degree of tissue influence is directly related to the size of the spot emerging from the fiber outlet. In our experiment, we used a PIR fiber with a 630 nm inner core diameter to propagate high-frequency THz waves. This core features a refractive index of 2.15 and has an effective numerical aperture (NA) of 0.35 ± 0.05.

Our decision to apply HFTS for 15 minutes in the behavioral study was primarily based on observations from in vivo multi-channel recordings. Specifically, we noticed a considerable reduction in the average firing rate of PYR cells after 15 minutes of HFTS exposure. To further investigate the correlation between the duration of HFTS stimulation and its effects, we conducted a comparative study using a 10-minute HFTS session. The results, depicted in revised Fig. 5c, reveal that the PWMT value decreased to the level seen in the SNI group after approximately 160 minutes following 15 minutes of HFTS, and after about 140 minutes with 10 minutes of HFTS. This suggests a direct relationship between the length of HFTS application and its beneficial outcomes.

(2) How long does the behavioral effect last after 15 minutes of HFTS? Figure 5b only presents the behavioral effect for one hour, but the pain level is still effectively reduced at this time point. The behavioral measurement should last until pain sensitization drops back to pre-stim level.

Thank you for your feedback. Similar question is also mentioned by reviewer 1. As depicted in Fig. 5c, it was observed that the analgesic effects lasted for 140-160 min with 10-15 minutes application of HFTS. Based on these findings, we can conclude that in the SNI model, targeting the ACC brain region with HFTS for a duration of 10-15 minutes results in an analgesic effect that lasts for roughly 140-160 minutes. This provides valuable insights into the potential clinical applications and duration of relief that can be achieved through HFTS treatment.

(3) Although the manuscript only tested in ACC, it will also be useful to demonstrate the neural modulation effect on other brain regions. Would 36THz HFTS also robustly modulate activities in other brain regions? Or are different frequencies needed for different brain regions?

Thank you for your comment. We hypothesize that light waves at a frequency of approximately 36 THz effectively modulate neuronal activities in various brain regions, primarily due to their impact on K channels. Additionally, we speculate that the application of THz waves at different frequencies may influence other channels, such as Na and Ca channels, potentially facilitating or inhibiting neuronal activities. We believe this is a fascinating and significant area of research to explore in the future.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

Summary:

This manuscript by Peng et al. presents intriguing data indicating that high-frequency terahertz stimulation (HFTS) of the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) can alleviate neuropathic pain behaviors in mice. Specifically, the investigators report that terahertz (THz) frequency stimulation widens the selectivity filter of potassium channels thereby increasing potassium conductance and leading to a reduction in the excitability of cortical neurons. In voltage clamp recordings from layer 5 ACC pyramidal neurons in acute brain slice, Peng et al. show that HFTS enhances K current while showing minimal effects on Na current. Current clamp recording analyses show that the spared nerve injury model of neuropathic pain decreases the current threshold for action potential (AP) generation and increases evoked AP frequency in layer 5 ACC pyramidal neurons, which is consistent with previous studies. Data are presented showing that ex-vivo treatment with HFTS in slice reduces these SNI-induced changes to excitability in layer 5 ACC pyramidal neurons. The authors also confirm that HFTS reduces the excitability of layer 5 ACC pyramidal neurons via in vivo multi-channel recordings from SNI mice. Lastly, the authors show that HFTS is effective at reducing mechanical allodynia in SNI using both the von Frey and Catwalk analyses. Overall, there is considerable enthusiasm for the findings presented in this manuscript given the need for non-pharmacological treatments for pain in the clinical setting.

Strengths:

The authors use a multifaceted approach that includes modeling, ex-vivo and in-vivo electrophysiological recordings, and behavioral analyses. Interpretation of the findings is consistent with the data presented. This preclinical work in mice provides new insight into the potential use of directed high-frequency stimulation to the cortex as a primary or adjunctive treatment for chronic pain.

Weaknesses:

There are a few concerns noted that if addressed, would significantly increase enthusiasm for the study.

(1) The left Na current trace for SNI + HFTS in Figure 2B looks to have a significant series resistance error. Time constants (tau) for the rate of activation and inactivation for Na currents would be informative.

Thank you for your feedback. We have carefully considered your comments and made several adjustments in the revised Figs. 2b-f to improve clarity and accuracy. Firstly, we have conducted a comparison of the time constants (tau) between the SNI group and the SNI+HFTS group. These time constants represent the latency of Na current activation or inactivation relative to the half-activated/inactivated voltage. Our analysis reveals that there is no statistically significant difference in tau between the two groups for both activation and deactivation curves. Secondly, we have updated the sample traces in Fig. 2b of the revised manuscript. These new traces illustrate that tau does not significantly differ between the SNI and SNI+HFTS groups, providing a visual representation of our findings. We believe that these modifications strengthen the presentation of our study's details and results, making the data more accessible and understandable for readers.

(2) It is unclear why an unpaired t-test was performed for paired data in Figure 2. Also, statistical methods and values for non-significant data should be presented.

Thank you for your comment. I think you mean the results in Fig. 3. We agree with you that we should use one-way ANOVA to analyze the data since there are more than 2 groups for comparison. We thus re-analyzed the data by using one-way ANOVA in Figs. 3g-k, and have included detailed statistical methods and P values in the revised manuscript.

(3) It would seem logical to perform HFTS on ACC-Pyr neurons in acute slices from sham mice (i.e. Figure 3 scenario). These experiments would be informative given the data presented in Figure 4.

Thank you for your valuable advice. During the revision process, we performed HFTS on ACC-PYR neurons in acute slices obtained from sham mice. The findings from this experiment have been integrated into the updated Fig. 3, where the sham group is represented by the green line and histogram (the revised Fig. 3 in the manuscript). It is noteworthy that a significant decrease in spike frequency was observed in the sham mice following HFTS.

(4) As the data are presented in Figure 4g, it does not seem as if SNI significantly increased the mean firing rate for ACC-Pyr neurons, which is observed in the slice. The data were analyzed using a paired t-test within each group (sham and SNI), but there is no indication that statistical comparisons across groups were performed. If the argument is that HFTS can restore normal activity of ACC-Pyr neurons following SNI, this is a bit concerning if no significant increase in ACC-Pyr activity is observed in in-vivo recordings from SNI mice.

Thank you for highlighting the inaccuracies in the analysis. After reviewing the data, we re-analyzed it using alternative statistical methods. In the revised version, since the data did not follow a normal distribution, we employed Wilcoxon matched-paired signed rank tests within the sham and SNI groups, and Mann-Whitney tests between the sham and SNI groups.

Upon comparing the statistical outcomes across the groups, we found that the mean firing rate of 130 ACC neurons in SNI mice was significantly higher compared to that of 108 ACC neurons in sham mice (P = 0.0447, Mann-Whitney test). Notably, the mean firing rate of ACC-PYR exhibited a more pronounced increase with a P value of 0.0274 in SNI pre-HFTS versus sham pre-HFTS, while the mean firing rate of ACC-INT did not display a significant change across the groups. These findings align with the observations we made in the slice, reinforcing the validity of our results.

(5) The authors indicate that the effects of HFTS are due to changes in Kv1.2. However, they do not directly test this. A blocking peptide or dendrotoxin could be used in voltage clamp recordings to eliminate Kv1.2 current and then test if this eliminates the effects of HFTS. If K current is completely blocked in VC recordings then the authors can claim that currents they are recording are Kv1.1 or 1.2.

Thank you for your kind suggestion. In our research, we employed the Kv1.2 structure as a model to determine the response frequency of terahertz waves. Through both in vitro and in vivo experiments, we were able to demonstrate that the frequency of approximately 36 THz affects the Kv channel and its corresponding spike frequency. Upon analyzing the action potential waveform, we observed a notable variance in the resting membrane potential (RMP). This RMP is predominantly controlled by leak potassium channels, specifically the Tandem-pore potassium channels. In accordance with the recommendation of reviewer 1, we have addressed this particular aspect of our experimentation in the revised manuscript.

We agree that we should use blocking peptides or dendrotoxin to eliminate Kv1.2 current. However, we meet problems in purchasing and delivery of the drugs. We thus added some explanation in the Discussion part to emphasize the value for this pharmacological experiment and can further confirm this in the future works.

(6) The ACC is implicated in modulating the aversive aspect of pain. It would be interesting to know whether HFTS could induce conditioned place preference in SNI mice via negative reinforcement (i.e. alleviation of spontaneous pain due to the injury). This would strengthen the clinical relevance of using HFTS in treating pain.

Thank you for this valuable advice. We share your intrigue regarding this experiment, and we fully recognize the importance and potential of further exploring this area. At present, however, our equipment and platform limitations prevent us from conducting the necessary tests. However, we remain committed to pursuing relevant research opportunities in the future.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

In this manuscript, Yoo et al describe the role of a specialized cell type found in muscle, Fibro-adipogenic progenitors (FAPs), in promoting regeneration following sciatic nerve injury. Using single-cell transcriptomics, they characterize the expression profiles of FAPs at various times after nerve crush or denervation. Their results reveal that a population of these muscle-resident mesenchymal progenitors up regulate the receptors for GDNF, which is secreted by Schwann cells following crush injury, suggesting that FAPs respond to this growth factor. They also find that FAPs increase expression of BDNF, which promotes nerve regeneration. The authors demonstrate FAP production of BDNF in vivo is up regulated in response to injection of GDNF and that conditional deletion of BDNF in FAPs results in delayed nerve regeneration after crush injury, primarily due to lagging remyelination. Finally, they also find reduced BDNF expression following crush injury in aged mice, suggesting a potential mechanism to explain the decrease in peripheral nerve regenerative capability in aged animals. These results are very interesting and novel and provide important insights into the mechanisms regulating peripheral nerve regeneration, which has important clinical implications for understanding and treating nerve injuries.

However, the authors should provide more compelling evidence that BDNF is produced by FAPs in response to GDNF signaling. The suggestion that Schwann cell-derived GDNF is responsible for up regulation of BDNF in the FAPs is primarily indirect, based on the data showing that injection of GDNF into the muscle is sufficient to up regulate BDNF (Fig. 4H). The authors more directly test their hypothesis by administering GDNF blocking antibody and find a trend toward reduced BDNF (Fig. 4S2), but it is not statistically significant at this point. Additional replicates should be performed to determine if BDNF levels are indeed reduced when GDNF is blocked.

eLife assessment

This important research describes the sensory innervation of oral tumors, with potential implications for understanding cancer-induced alterations in motivation and anhedonia in a mouse model. These findings are solid and are supported by anatomical and transcriptional changes in the tumor that suggest sensory innervation, neural tracing, and neural activity measurements. While nerve innervation of the tumor and associated increase in brain activity is well-supported, future studies could enhance specificity by employing more targeted genetic and pharmacological tools to manipulate these circuits selectively.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

Summary:

Using a mouse model of head and neck cancer, Barr et al show that tumor-infiltrating nerves connect to brain regions via the ipsilateral trigeminal ganglion, and they demonstrate the effect this has on behavior. The authors show that there are neurites surrounding the tumors using a WGA assay and show that the brain regions that are involved in this tumor-containing circuit have elevated Fos and FosB expression and increased calcium response. Behaviorally, tumor-bearing mice have decreased nest building and wheel running and increased anhedonia. The behavior, Fos expression, and heightened calcium activity were all decreased in tumor-bearing mice following nociceptor neuron elimination.

Strengths:

This paper establishes that sensory neurons innervate head and neck cancers and that these tumors impact select brain areas. This paper also establishes that behavior is altered following these tumors and that drugs to treat pain restore some but not all of the behavior. The results from the experiments (predominantly gene and protein expression assays, cFos expression, and calcium imaging) support their behavioral findings both with and without drug treatment.

Comments on previously identified weaknesses:

The authors have addressed the majority of my concerns.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Summary:

Cancer treatments are not just about the tumor - there is an ever-increasing need for treating pain, fatigue, and anhedonia resulting from the disease as patients are undergoing successful but prolonged bouts with cancer. Using an implantable oral tumor model in the mouse, Barr et al describe neural infiltration of tumors, and posit that these nerve fibers are transmitting pain and other sensory signals to the brain that reduce pleasure and motivation. These findings are in part supported by anatomical and transcriptional changes in the tumor that suggest sensory innervation, neural tracing, and neural activity measurements. Further, the authors conduct behavior assays in tumor-bearing animals and inhibit/ablate pain sensory neurons to suggest involvement of local sensory innervation of tumors in mediating cancer-induced malaise.

Strengths:

• This is an important area of research that may have implications for improving the quality of life of cancer patients.

• The studies use a combination of approaches (tracing and anatomy, transcriptional, neural activity recordings, behavior assays, loss-of-function) to support their claims.

• Tracing experiments suggest that tumor-innervating afferents are connected to brain nuclei involved in oral pain sensing. Consistent with this, the authors observed increased neural activity in those brain areas of tumor-bearing animals. It should be noted that some of these brain nuclei have also been implicated in cancer-induced behavioral alterations in non-head and neck tumor models.

• Experiments are well-controlled and approaches are validated.

• The paper is well-written and the layout was easy to follow.

Weaknesses/Future Directions:

• The main claim is that tumor-infiltrating nerves underlie cancer-induced behavioral alterations. While the studies are supportive of this conclusion, manipulations in the current study are non-specific, ablating all TRPV1 sensory neurons. A direct test would be to selectively inhibit/ablate nerve fibers innervating the tumor or mouth region.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

Summary:

The authors have tested for and demonstrated a physical (i.e., sensory nerves to brain) connection between tumors and parts of the brain which can provide some clues into why there is an increase in depressive disorders in HNSCC patients. While connections such as this have been suspected, this is a novel demonstration pointing to sensory neurons that is accompanied by a remarkable amount of complementary data.

Strengths:

There is substantial evidence provided for the hypotheses tested. The data are largely quite convincing.

Weaknesses:

The authors mention in their Discussion the need for additional experiments. that address some of the gaps in this analysis.

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

Public Reviews:

Reviewer #1:

(1) Study suggests that the effects of their tumor models of mouse behavioral are largely non-specific to the tumor as most behaviors are rescued by analgesic treatment. So, most of the changes were likely due to site-specific pain and not a unique signal from the tumor.

The tumor generates pain at the site it is implanted, and it is likely amplified by the oral activities tumor bearing mice have to engage in. As there is no pain in the absence of the tumor, the pain is, by definition, caused by the tumor, not by the site. Concerning the relationship between pain and behavior, the behavioral assays undertaken in our study (nesting, cookie test, wheel running) were very limited in scope.  Two of these assays (nesting, cookie test) require use of the oral cavity. Only nesting and wheel running were assessed in the context of treatment for pain. Nesting behavior was completely restored with carprofen and buprenorphine treatment suggesting that in the absence of pain, mice were able to make perfect nests. Consistent with this, carprofen and buprenorphine treated animals also gained weight indicating that eating (another activity dependent on the oral cavity) was also restored.  Wheel running, an activity that does not rely on the oral cavity, was only partially restored with drug treatment. While additional behavioral tests are necessary to confirm this finding, the data suggest that there is pain-independent information relayed to the brain which accounts for this decline in wheel running.

Reviewer #2:

(1) The main claim is that tumor-infiltrating nerves underlie cancer-induced behavioral alterations, but the experimental interventions are not specific enough to support this. For example, all TRPV1 neurons, including those innervating the skin and internal organs, are ablated to examine sensory innervation of the tumor. Within the context of cancer, behavioral changes may be due to systemic inflammation, which may alter TRPV1 afferents outside the local proximity of tumor cells. A direct test of the claims of this paper would be to selectively inhibit/ablate nerve fibers innervating the tumor or mouth region.

We agree with the reviewer that a direct test of the hypothesis would require selectively inhibiting the nerve fibers innervating the tumor and assessing the impact on behavior. Studies in the lab are on-going using pharmacological interventions to do this. These studies are beyond the scope of this current manuscript.

(2) Behavioral results from TRPV1 neuron ablation studies are in part confounded by differing tumor sizes in ablated versus control mice. Are the differences in behavior potentially explained by the ablated animals having significantly smaller tumors? The differences in tumor sizes are not negligible. One way to examine this possibility might be to correlate behavioral outcomes with tumor size.

As suggested by the reviewer, we have graphed nesting scores and time-to-interact (cookie test) relative to tumor volume.  In both cases, we used simple linear regression to fit the data and analyzed the slopes of the lines. In the case of nesting, there was no significant difference between the slopes. This is now included as Supplemental Figure 4A. In the case of the cookie test, there was a significant difference between the slopes. This is now included as Supplemental Figure 4B. Graphing the data in this way allows one to look at any given tumor volume and infer what the nesting score and the time-to-interact for the two groups of mice. The linear regression model fits the time to interact with the cookie reasonably well, thus from this graph, we can see that at any given tumor volume the time to interact with the cookie was generally shorter in TRPV1cre::DTAfl/wt animals as compared to C57BL/6 mice. Unfortunately, the linear regression does not fit the nesting data very well and thus it is more difficult to make the comparison of tumor volume and nesting score.

The following text has been added to the results section.

Given the impact of nociceptor neuron ablation on tumor growth, we wondered whether differences in tumor volume contributed to the behavioral differences we noted. Thus, the behavior data were graphed as a function of tumor volume (Supplemental Fig 4A, B). A simple linear regression model was used to fit the data. In the case of nesting scores, the linear regression did not fit the data points very well making it difficult to assess nesting scores at a given tumor volume (Supplemental Fig 4A). However, the linear regression model fit the time to interact data better. Here, the graph suggests that tumor volume did not influence behavior as at any given tumor volume the time to interact with the cookie is generally smaller in TRPV1-Cre::Floxed-DTA animals as compared to C57BL/6 animals (Supplemental Fig 4B).

Reviewer #3:

(1) The authors mention in their Discussion the need for additional experiments. Could they also include / comment on the potential impact on the anti-tumor immune system in their model?

The following text has been added to the discussion:

Neuro-immune interactions have been studied in the context of a variety of conditions including, but not limited to infection 109, inflammation 110,111, homeostasis in the gut 112-114, as well as neurological diseases115,116. Neuro-immune communications in the context of cancer and behavior have also been studied (e.g., sickness behavior, depression) 117-119 however, these studies did not assess these interactions at the tumor bed. Investigations into neuro-immune interactions occurring within primary malignancies which harbor nerves have shed light on these critical communications. In the context of melanoma, which is innervated by sensory nerves, we identified that release of the neuropeptide calcitonin gene related peptide (CGRP) induces immune suppression. This effect is mediated by CGRP binding to its receptor, RAMP1, which is expressed on CD8+ T cells 49. A study utilizing a different syngeneic model of oral cancer similarly found an immune suppressive role for CGRP 120-122. These studies demonstrate that neuro-immune interactions occur at the tumor bed. Our current findings indicating that tumor-infiltrating nerves connect to a circuit that includes regions within the brain suggest that neuro-immune interactions within the peripheral malignancy may contribute to the behavioral alterations we studied.

(2) The authors mention the importance of inflammation contributing to pain in cancer but do not clearly highlight how this may play a role in their model. Can this be clarified?

The following text has been added to the discussion section of the manuscript.

Moreover, given that carprofen and buprenorphine decrease inflammation 104, their ability to restore normal nesting and cookie test behaviors (which require the use of the oral cavity where the tumor is located) suggests that inflammation at the tumor site contributed to the decline in these behaviors in vehicle-treated animals. Since both drugs were given systemically and each only partially restored wheel running, it suggests that systemic inflammation alone cannot fully account for the decline in wheel running seen in vehicle-treated animals. We posit that the inflammation- and pain-independent component of this behavioral decline is mediated via the transcriptional and functional alterations in the cancer-brain circuit.

(3) The tumor model apparently requires isoflurane injection prior to tumor growth measurements. This is different from most other transplantable types of tumors used in the literature. Was this treatment also given to control (i.e., non-tumor) mice at the same time points? If not, can the authors comment on the impact of isoflurane (if any) in their model?

Mice in all groups (tumor and non-tumor) were treated with isoflurane. This important detail has been added to the methods section.

(4) The authors emphasize in several places that this is a male mouse model. They mention this as a limitation in the Discussion. Was there an original reason why they only tested male mice?

The following text has been added in the discussion section:

Head and neck cancer is predominantly a cancer in males; it occurs in males three times more often than in females 123, this disparity increases in certain parts of the world. While smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol are risk factors for HPV negative head and neck squamous cell carcinoma, even males that do not smoke and drink are have a higher susceptibility for this cancer than females 124,125. Thus, our studies used only male mice. However, we do recognize that females also get this cancer. In fact, female patients with head and neck cancer, particularly oral cancer, report more pain than their male counterparts 126,127. These findings suggest that differences in tumor innervation exist in males and females.

Therefore, another project in the lab has been to compare disease characteristics (including innervation and behavior) in male and female mice. The findings from this second study are the topic of a separate manuscript.

Recommendations For The Authors:

Reviewing editor:

(1) Tumors can communicate with the brain via blood-borne agents from the tumor itself or immune cells that are activated by the tumor in addition to neurons that invade the tumor. The xia and malaise that accompanies some tumors can be mediated by direct innervation and/or the humoral factors because both can activate the same parabrachial pathway. This paper makes the case for the direct innervation being important but ignores the possibility of both being involved. The interesting observation that innervation supports tumor growth (perhaps via substance P) is troublesome because the slower appearance of behavioral consequences (Figures 4 & 5) could be attributed to the smaller tumor size. A nice control for humoral effects would be to implant the tumor cells someplace in the body where innervation does not occur (if possible) and then examine behavioral outcomes.

In the course of several projects, we have implanted different tumor cell lines in different locations in mice (oral cavity, hind limb, flank, peritoneal cavity). In each location, tumor innervation occurs. This is not a phenomenon found only in mice as we completed an immunohistological survey of human cancers from different sites and found they are all innervated (PMID 34944001). These data are consistent with tumor and locally-released factors that recruit nerves to the tumor bed (PMID: 30327461)(PMID: 32051587)(PMID: 27989802). Thus, an implantation site that does not result in tumor innervation is currently unknown and likely does not exist.

(2) The authors should address whether there is an inflammatory component in this tumor model.

MOC2-7 tumors have been characterized as non-inflamed and poorly immunogenic 129-131.

This information has been added to the methods section.

(3) The RTX experiment in Figure 5 would be more compelling if the drug was injected directly into the tumor rather than injecting it in the flank, thus ablating all TRPV1-exressing neurons as in the genetic approach.

While we agree with the reviewer that ablating the TRPV1-expressing neurons at the tumor site directly would be ideal, RTX treatment takes approximately one week for ablation to occur but a significant amount of inflammation is associated with this. Therefore, we wait a total of 4 weeks for the inflammation to resolve. By this time, tumors have generally reached sacrifice criteria. Thus, this approach would not enable the question to be answered Moreover, we are not aware of any studies in which RTX has been injected in the oral cavity or face. While RTX is utilized clinically to treat pain, it is typically administered intrathecally, epidurally or intra-ganglionically (PMID: 37894723).

(4) The authors address affective aspects of pain but do not adequately address the sensory aspects, e.g., sensitivity to touch, heat and/or cold. They attribute the decrease in food disappearance (consumption) and nest building to oral pain, but it could be due to anhedonia and anorexia that can accompany tumor progression.

Assaying for touch and heat/cold sensitivity in the oral cavity is a critical aspect of studying head and neck cancer that needs to be addressed. However, in rodents these assays are not trivial given that any touch/heat/cold in the area of the tumor (oral cavity) impacts the sensitive whiskers in that region which directly influence these assays. Thus, we have been refining assays (e.g., OPAD, facial von Frey) to address these important questions. The findings from these studies are beyond the scope of this manuscript.

The reviewer makes a good point about anhedonia and anorexia. The following text has been added to the results section:

Pain-induced anhedonia is mediated by changes in the reward pathway. Specifically, in the context of pain, dopaminergic neurons in the ventral tegmental area (VTA) become less responsive to pain and release less serotonin.  This decreased serotonin results in disinhibition of GABA release; the resulting increased GABA promotes an increased inhibitory drive leading to anhedonia  82 and, when extreme, anorexia. Carprofen and buprenorphine treatments completely reversed nesting behavior and significantly improved eating. Inflammation 83 and opioids 84 directly influence reward processing and though our tracing studies did not indicate that the tumor-brain circuit includes the VTA, this brain region may be indirectly impacted by tumor-induced pain in the oral cavity. Thus, an alternative interpretation of the data is that the effects of carprofen and buprenorphine treatments on nesting and food consumption may be due to inhibition of anhedonia (and anorexia) rather than, or in addition to, relieving oral pain.

(5) Comment on why only males were used in this study.

Please see response to public reviews.

Reviewer #1:

(1) Please provide a justification for the use of exclusively male mice and expand in the discussion if there is potential for these findings to be directly applicable to female mice as well.

Please see response to public reviews.

The following text has been added to the discussion:

Head and neck cancer is predominantly a cancer in males; it occurs in males three times more often than in females 123, this disparity increases in certain parts of the world. While smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol are risk factors for HPV negative head and neck squamous cell carcinoma, even males that do not smoke and drink are have a higher susceptibility for this cancer than females 124,125. Thus, our studies used only male mice. However, we do recognize that females also get this cancer. In fact, female patients with head and neck cancer, particularly oral cancer, report more pain than their male counterparts 126,127. These findings suggest that differences in tumor innervation exist in males and females.

(2) When discussing the results shown in Figure 2, please include some mention of Fus, since it was the highest expressed transcript.

The following text has been added to the results section regarding Fus.

The gene demonstrating the highest increase in expression, Fus, was of particular interest; it increases in expression within DRG neurons following nerve injury and contributes to injury-induced pain 51,52. Of note, we purposefully used whole trigeminal ganglia rather than FACS-sorted tracer-positive dissociated neurons to avoid artificially imposing injury and altering the transcript levels of these cells 53,54. Thus, significantly elevated expression of Fus by ipsilateral TGM neurons from tumor-bearing animals suggests the presence of neuronal injury induced by the malignancy. This is consistent with our previous findings 55 and those of others 56 showing that tumor-infiltrating nerves harbor higher expression of nerve-injury transcripts and neuronal sensitization.

(3) In line 197 please clarify the mice used. Were all mice tumor-bearing and some had nociceptors ablated, or was there a control (no tumor) group as well?

Line 197 refers to Figure 4D. In this figure, panels B-D show quantification of cFos and DFosB in the spinal nucleus of the TGM (SpVc), The parabrachial nucleus (PBN) and the Central nucleus of the amygdala (CeA). These data are from C57BL/6 and TRPV1cre::DTAfl/wt animals all of whom had tumor. Supplementary Figure 3C also show quantification of cFos and DFosB but these are from control, non-tumor bearing animals. The fact that controls are non-tumor-bearing has been added to the supplemental figure legend and the text of the results section has been clarified as follows.

While Fos expression was similar between non-tumor bearing mice of the two genotypes (Supplemental Fig. 3C-E), the absence of nociceptor neurons in tumor-bearing animals decreases cFos and DFosB in the PBN, and DFosB in the SpVc (Fig. 4B, C).

(4) Overall it would improve the readability of the figures if the colors for the IHC channels were on the image itself and not exclusively in the figure legend.

The colors for all the staining have been added to each panel.

(5) It is not a problem that complete cartography was not done, but please include a justification for why the brain regions that were focused on were chosen.

In order to ensure that our neural tracing technique captured only nerves present within the tumor bed, we restricted the injection of tracer to only 2 µl. We demonstrated that this small volume did not leak out of the tumor (Figure 1) and thus any tracer labeled neurons we identified were deemed as being connected in a circuit to nerves in the tumor bed. While we acknowledged that this calculated technical approach restricted our ability to tracer label all neurons in the tumor bed (as well as those they share circuitry with), it ensured no tracer leakage and inadvertent labeling of non-tumoral nerves. In non-tumor animals injected with 10 µl of tracer, labeled regions in the brain included the spinal nucleus of the trigeminal, the parabrachial nucleus, the central amygdala, the facial nucleus and the motor nucleus of the trigeminal. The regions that were tracer positive when tumor was injected were limited to the spinal nucleus of the trigeminal, the parabrachial nucleus and the central amygdala. Thus, the regions in the brain that we focused on were the areas that became tracer-positive following injection of tracer into the tumor.

(6) Were the cells that were injected cultured in media with 10% fetal calf serum? If so was any inflammatory response seen? If not please state in the methods section the media that cells for injection were cultured in.

The cells injected into animals were cultured in media containing 10% fetal calf serum. When cells are harvested for tumor injections, they are first washed two times with PBS and then trypsinized to detach the cells from the plate. Cells are collected, washed again with PBS and resuspended with DMEM without serum; this is what is injected into animals. We harvest cells in this way in order to eliminate any serum being injected into mice. This information has been added to the Methods section.

(7) Would any of the differences in drug treatment (Carprofen vs Buprenorphine) be due to the differing routes of administration and metabolism of the drugs?

Since carprofen and buprenorphine each resulted in similar behavioral impacts (nesting and wheel running), their different routes of administration seem to play a minor or no role in the behaviors assessed.

(8) Please include in the methods section the specific approach and software that was used for processing calcium imaging data and calculating a relative change in fluorescence.

The specific approach used for processing calcium imaging data and calculating relative change in fluorescence as well as the software used are all included in the methods section. Please see below:

Ca2+ imaging. TGM neurons from non-tumor and tumor-bearing animals (n=4-6 mice/condition) were imaged on the same day. Neurons were incubated with the calcium indicator, Fluo-4AM, at 37°C for 20 min. After dye loading, the cells were washed, and Live Cell Imaging Solution (Thermo-Fisher) with 20 mM glucose was added. Calcium imaging was conducted at room temperature. Changes in intracellular Ca2+ were measured using a Nikon scanning confocal microscope with a 10x objective. Fluo-4AM was excited at 488 nm using an argon laser with intensity attenuated to 1%. The fluorescence images were acquired in the confocal frame (1024 × 1024 pixels) scan mode. After 1 min of baseline measure, capsaicin (300nM final concentration) was added. Ca2+ images were recorded before, during and after capsaicin application. Image acquisition and analysis were achieved using NIS-Elements imaging software. Fluo-4AM responses were standardized and shown as percent change from the initial frame. Data are presented as the relative change in fluorescence (DF/F0), where F0 is the basal fluorescence and DF=F-F0 with F being the measured intensity recorded during the experiment. Calcium responses were analyzed only for neurons responding to ionomycin (10 µM, positive control) to ensure neuronal health. Treatment with the cell permeable Ca2+ chelator, BAPTA (200 µM), served as a negative control.

(9) Suggestions for Figure 1:

- In Figures 1C, D, E, include labels for the days of tumor harvest.

- Please make the size of the labels the same for 1K an 1L and align them.

- Microscopy image in Figure 1L for SpVc looks like it may be at a different magnification.

- If possible, include (either in the figure or the supplement) IHC images staining for Dcx and tau, which would complement the western blot data.

The requested changes to the figures have been made. Unfortunately, we do not have Dcx and tau IHC staining of the day 4, 10 and 20 tumors.

(10) Suggestions for Figure 2:

- Include directly onto the graph in Figure 2a the legend for tumor-bearing (red) and non-tumor bearing (blue).

- Keep consistent between Figure 2G and 2H/I if the tumor/nontumor will be labeled as T/N or Tumor/Control.

The requested changes to the figures have been made.

(11) Suggestions for Figure 3:

- An example trace of calcium signal would complement Figure 3G, H well.

Example tracings of calcium signal are already provided in Supplementary Figure 3A and B.

Reviewer #2:

(1) While the use of male mice is acknowledged, there is not a rationale for why female mice were not included in the study.

Please see the response to Reviewer #1 (first question).

(2) Criteria for euthanasia should be described in the Methods. This is especially needed for interpreting the survival curve in Figure 4H.

Criteria for euthanasia in our IACUC approved protocol include:

- maximum tumor volume of 1000mm3

- edema

- extended period of weight loss progressing to emaciation

- impaired mobility or lesions interfering with eating, drinking or ambulation

- rapid weight loss (>20% in 1 week)

- weight loss at or more than 20% of baseline

In addition to tumor size and weight loss, we use the body condition score to evaluate the state of animals and to determine euthanasia.  These details have been added to the Methods section.

(3) At what stage in cancer progression were the Fos studies conducted for Figure 4A-D?

The brains used for Fos staining (Fig 4B-D) were harvested at week 5 post-tumor implantation.

(4) For Fos counts, what are the bregma coordinates for the sections that were quantified?

SpVc:  -7.56 to -8.24mm

PBN:  -4.96 to -5.52mm

CeA:  -0.82mm to -1.94mm

(5) Statistics are needed for the claim in Lines 171-173.

The statistical analysis of Fos staining from tumor-bearing and non-tumor bearing brains are included in Figure 3D-F. The statistical analysis of ex vivo Ca+2 imaging of brains from tumor-bearing and non-tumor bearing animals are included in Figure 3 I and J.

(6) How long was the baseline period for weight and food intake measurements? How long were the animals single-housed before taking the baseline measurements?  

Baseline weight and food intake measurements were 2 weeks and animals were singly housed before baseline measurements for 2 weeks (a total of 4 weeks).

Minor:

(7) The authors might consider rewording the sentence on lines 59-62, given that it is abundantly clear from rodent studies that both the tumor and chemotherapy are associated with adverse behavioral outcomes.

We have reworded the sentence as follows:  The association of cancer with impaired mental health is directly mediated by the disease, its treatment or both; these findings suggest that the development of a tumor alters brain functions.

(8) Line 212 needs a space between the two sentences.

This has been fixed.

(9) Font size in Figure 2 is not consistent with the other figures.

This has been fixed.

(10) "DAPI" is the more conventional than "DaPi".

This has been fixed.

Editorial Comments and Suggestions:

(1) The Abstract would be better if it were more concise, e.g. ~175 words.

The abstract has been shortened as requested and now reads:

Cancer patients often experience changes in mental health, prompting an exploration into whether nerves infiltrating tumors contribute to these alterations by impacting brain functions. Using a mouse model for head and neck cancer and neuronal tracing we show that tumor-infiltrating nerves connect to distinct brain areas. The activation of this neuronal circuitry altered behaviors (decreased nest-building, increased latency to eat a cookie, and reduced wheel running). Tumor-infiltrating nociceptor neurons exhibited heightened calcium activity and brain regions receiving these neural projections showed elevated cFos and delta FosB as well as increased calcium responses compared to non-tumor-bearing counterparts. The genetic elimination of nociceptor neurons decreased brain Fos expression and mitigated the behavioral alterations induced by the presence of the tumor. While analgesic treatment restored nesting and cookie test behaviors, it did not fully restore voluntary wheel running indicating that pain is not the exclusive driver of such behavioral shifts. Unraveling the interaction between the tumor, infiltrating nerves, and the brain is pivotal to developing targeted interventions to alleviate the mental health burdens associated with cancer.

(2) Lines 28, 104, 258, 486, 521, and many other places, "utilized" should be "used" because the former refers to an application for which it is not intended, e.g. a hammer was utilized as a doorstop.

The requested changes have been made.

(3) Lines 32 and 73, it is not clear whether the basal activity is heightened or whether excitability is increased. "manifest" might be better than "harbor" on line 73.

We have changed the wording in the abstract to be clearer. Moreover, our finding that TGM neurons from tumor-bearing animals have increased expression of the s1-Receptor and phosphorylated TRPV1 (Fig 2G-I) indicate that these neurons have increased excitability.

(4) Line 34 and elsewhere, it would be better to refer to Fos because the is no need to distinguish cellular, cFos, from viral, vFos, in this context.

The requested changes have been made.

(5) Line 38, It would be better to refer to what was actually measured rather than "oral movements".

The requested changes have been made. The sentence now reads: “While analgesic treatment restored nesting and cookie test behaviors, it did not fully restore voluntary wheel running.”

(6) Line 84, CXCR3-null mouse on a C57BL/6 background.

The requested change has been made.

(7) Lines 86,129 wild-type, male mice.

The requested change has been made.

(8) Lines114-115, the brackets are not necessary.

The requested change has been made.

(9) Lines 118, 384, 409, 527, 589, 971, 974 always leave a space between numbers and units. Use Greek u for micro.

The requested change has been made.

(10) Lines 123-124, it is not clear that there is meaningful labeling within the CeA.

We have replaced this image with a more representative one of the CeA from a tumor-bearing animal with clear tracer labeling.

(11) Lines 125, 138, and 246 transcription was not measured, only transcript levels were measured.

The requested changes have been made.

(12) Line 133, I think >4 fold is meant.

Thank you for catching that. I have fixed it to >4 fold.

(13) Line 165, single-time-point assessment (add hyphens).

The requested change has been made.

(14) Line 181 and elsewhere including figure, the superscripts refer to alleles of the genes; hence approved gene names should be used in italics (as in Methods), TRPV1-Cre:: Floxed-DTA (without italics) would be acceptable.

The requested changes have been made.

(15) Line 182, nociceptor-neuron-ablated mice (add hyphens).

The requested changes have been made.

(16) Line 197, It is not clear that the "speed" of food disappearance was measured or that it is due to oral pain vs loss of appetite.

The reviewer makes a good point. We have changed the sentence to read:

To evaluate the effects of this disruption on cancer-induced behavioral changes, we assessed the animals’ general well-being through nesting behavior 32 and anhedonia using the cookie test 76,77, as well as  body weight and food disappearance as surrogates for oral pain and/or loss of appetite.

(17) Line 199, The reduced tumor growth after ablation could account for most of the changes in the other parameters that were measured.

We have graphed the nesting scores and time-to-interact with the cookie as a function of tumor volume.  These data are now included as Supplemental Figure 4 and suggest that at the same tumor volume, nesting scores and times-to-interact with the cookie are different between the groups.

(18) Line 204 TPVP1 spelling. Is the TGN smaller after ablation of half of the neurons?

The requested change has been made.

(19) Line 235, "now" is not necessary.

The requested change has been made.

(20) Line 238-239 and elsewhere, a few references for to why the TGN-SpVc-PBN-CeA circuit is relevant would be helpful.

The following references have been added regarding the relevance of this circuit to behavior:

Molecular Brain 14: 94 (2021) (PMID 34167570)

Neuropharmacology 198: 108757 (2021) (PMID 34461068)

Frontiers in Cellular Neuroscience 16: 997360 (2022)  (PMID 36385947)

Neuropsychopharmacology  49(3): 508-520 (2024) (PMID 37542159)

(21) Lines 371, 434 and Figures, gm should be g or grams in scientific usage. Include JAX lab stock numbers for these mouse lines.

The requested changes have been made.

(22) Line 432, removing food for one hour is not a fast.

The sentence has been reworded as follows: One hour prior to testing, mouse food is removed and the animals are acclimated to the brightly lit testing room.

(23) Line 476, 5-um sections (add hyphen).

The hyphen has been added.

(24) Lines 988, and 1023, DAPI are usually shown this way.

The requested change has been made.

(25) Figure 1K, add Bregma levels to figures.

SpVc: -8.12 mm

PBN: -5.34 mm

CeA: -1.34 mm

(26) Figure 3 line 1033, "area under the curve" What curve was examined?

The curve examined was the change in fluorescence over time. This curve has been added as Supplemental Figure 3C.

(27) Figure 3B, the circled area is the lateral PBN. At first glance, I thought scp was meant as the label for the circled area.

Scp is noted in the figure legend as a landmark.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

The manuscript involves 11 research vignettes that interrogate key aspects of GnRH pulse generator in two established mouse models of PCOS (peripubertal and prenatal androgenisation; PPA and PNA) (9 of the vignettes focus on the latter model).

A key message of this paper is that the oft-quoted idea of rapid GnRH/LH pulses associated with PCOS is in fact not readily demonstrable in PNA and PPA mice. This is an important message to make known, but when established dogmas are being challenged, the experiments behind them need to be robust. In this case, underpowered experiments and one or two other issues greatly limit the overall robustness of the study.

General critiques

(1) My main concern is that many/most of the experiments were limited to 4-5 mice per group (PPA experiments 1 and 2, PNA experiments 3, 5, 6, 8, and 9). This seems very underpowered for trying to disprove established dogmas (sometimes falling back on "non-significant trends" - lines 105 and 239).

(2) Page 133-142: it is concerning that the PNA mice didn't have elevated testosterone levels, and this clearly isn't the fault of the assay as this was re-tested in the laboratory of Prof Handelsman, an expert in the field, using LCMS. The point (clearly made in lines 315-336 of the Discussion) that elevated testosterone in PNA mice has been shown in some but not other publications is an important concern to describe for the field. However, the fact remains that it IS elevated in numerous studies, and in the current study it is not so, yet the authors go on to present GnRH pulse generator data as characteristic of the PNA model. Perhaps a demonstration of elevated testosterone levels (by LCMS?) should become a standard model validation prerequisite for publishing any PNA model data.

(3) Line 191-196: the lack of a significant increase in LH pulse frequency in PNA mice is based on measurements using reasonable group sizes (7-8), although the sampling frequency is low for this type of analysis (10-minute intervals; 6-minute intervals would seem safer for not missing some pulses). The significance of the LH pulse frequency results is not stated (looks like about p=0.01). The authors note that LH concentration IS elevated (approximately doubled), and this clearly is not caused by an increase in amplitude (Figure 4 G, H, I). These things are worth commenting on in the discussion.

(4) An interesting observation is that PNA mice appear to continue to have cyclical patterns of GnRH pulse generator activity despite reproductive acyclicity as determined by vaginal cytology (lines 209-241). This finding was used to analyse the frequency of GnRH pulse generator SEs in the machine-learning-identified diestrous-like stage of PNA mice and compare it to diestrous control mice (as identified by vaginal cytology?) (lines 245-254). The idea of a cycle stage-specific comparison is good, but surely the only valid comparison would be to use machine-learning to identify the diestrous-like stage in both groups of mice. Why use machine learning for one and vaginal cytology for the other?

Specific points

(5) With regard to point 2 above, it would be helpful to note the age at which the testosterone samples were taken.

(6) Lines 198-205 and 258-266: I think these are repeated measures of ANOVA data? If so, report the main relevant effect before the post hoc test result.

(7) Line 415: I don't think the word "although" works in this sentence.

(8) Lines 514-518: what are the limits of hormone detection in the LCMS assay?

eLife assessment

This important study reports findings on the GnRH pulse generator's role in androgen-exposed mouse models, providing further insights into PCOS pathophysiology and advancing the field of reproductive endocrinology. The experimental data were collected using cutting-edge methodologies and were solid. However, it is noteworthy that the findings, while interesting, are primarily applicable to mouse models, and their translation to human physiology requires cautious interpretation and further validation. This work will be of interest to endocrinologists and reproductive biologists.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Summary

The authors aimed to investigate the functionality of the GnRH (gonadotropin-releasing hormone) pulse generator in different mouse models to understand its role in reproductive physiology and its implications for conditions like polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS). They compared the GnRH pulse generator activity in control mice, peripubertal androgen (PPA) treated mice, and prenatal androgen (PNA) exposed mice. The study sought to elucidate how androgen exposure affects the GnRH pulse generator and subsequent LH (luteinizing hormone) secretion, contributing to the pathophysiology of PCOS.

Strengths

(1) Comprehensive Model Selection: The use of both PPA and PNA mouse models allows for a comparative analysis that can distinguish the effects of different timings of androgen exposure.

(2) Detailed Methodology: The methods employed, such as photometry recordings and serial blood sampling, are robust and allow for precise measurement of GnRH pulse generator activity and LH secretion.

(3) Clear Results Presentation: The experimental results are well-documented with appropriate statistical analyses, ensuring the findings are reliable and reproducible.

(4) Relevance to PCOS: The study addresses a significant gap in understanding the neuroendocrine mechanisms underlying PCOS, making the findings relevant to both basic science and potentially clinical research.

Weaknesses

(1) Model Limitations: While the PNA mouse model is suggested as the most appropriate for studying PCOS, the authors acknowledge that it does not completely replicate the human condition, particularly the elevated LH response seen in women with PCOS.

(2) Complex Data Interpretation: The reduced progesterone feedback and its effects on the GnRH pulse generator in PNA mice add complexity to data interpretation, making it challenging to draw straightforward conclusions.

(3) Machine Learning (ML) Selection and Validation: While k-means clustering is a useful tool for pattern recognition, the manuscript lacks detailed justification for choosing this specific algorithm over other potential methods. The robustness of clustering results has not been validated.

(4) Biological Interpretability: Although the machine learning approach identified cyclical patterns, the biological interpretation of these clusters in the context of PCOS is not thoroughly discussed. A deeper exploration of how these clusters correlate with physiological and pathological states could enhance the study's impact.

(5) Sample Size: The study uses a relatively small number of animals (n=4-7 per group), which may limit the generalisability of the findings. Larger sample sizes could provide more robust and statistically significant results.

(6) Scope of Application: The findings, while interesting, are primarily applicable to mouse models. The translation to human physiology requires cautious interpretation and further validation.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

Summary:

Zhou and colleagues elegantly used pre-clinical mouse models to understand the nature of abnormally high GnRH/LH pulse secretion in polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS), a major endocrine disorder affecting female fertility worldwide. This work brings a fundamental question of how altered gonadotropin secretion takes place upstream within the GnRH pulse generator core, which is defined by arcuate nucleus kisspeptin neurons.

Strengths:

The authors use state-of-the-art in vivo calcium imaging with fiber photometry and important physiological manipulations and measurements to dissect the possible neuronal mechanisms underlying such neuroendocrine derangements in PCOS. The additional use of unsupervised k-means clustering analysis for the evaluation of calcium synchronous events greatly enhances the quality of their evidence. The authors nicely propose that neuroendocrine dysfunction in PCOS might involve different setpoints through the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal (HPG) axis, and beyond kisspeptin neurons, which importantly pushes our field forward toward future investigations.

Weaknesses:

Although the authors provide important evidence, additional efforts are required to improve the quality of the manuscript and back up their claims. For instance, animal experiments failed to detect high testosterone levels in PNA female mice, a well-established PCOS mouse model. Considering that androgen excess is a hallmark of PCOS, this highly influences the subsequent evaluation of calcium synchronous events in arcuate kisspeptin neurons and the implications for neuroendocrine derangements. Authors also may need to provide LH data from another mouse model used in their work, the peripubertal androgen (PPA) model. Their claims seem to fall short without the pairing evidence of calcium synchronous events in arcuate kisspeptin neurons and LH pulse secretion. Another aspect that requires reviewing, is further exploration of their calcium synchronous events data and the increase of animal numbers in some of their experiments.

eLife assessment

This important study provides novel evidence that navigational experiences can shape perceptual scene representations. The evidence presented is incomplete and would benefit from clearer explanations of the experiment design and careful discussion of alternative interpretations such as contextual associations or familiarity. The work will be of interest to cognitive psychologists and neuroscientists working on perception and navigation.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

In this study, Li et al. aim to determine the effect of navigational experience on visual representations of scenes. Participants first learn to navigate within simple virtual environments where navigation is either unrestricted or restricted by an invisible wall. Environments are matched in terms of their spatial layout and instead differ primarily in terms of their background visual features. In a later same/different task, participants are slower to distinguish between pairs of scenes taken from the same navigation condition (i.e. both restricted or both unrestricted) than different navigation conditions. Neural response patterns in the PPA also discriminate between scenes from different navigation conditions. These results suggest that navigational experience influences perceptual representations of scenes. This is an interesting study, and the results and conclusions are clearly explained and easy to follow. There are a few points that I think would benefit from further consideration or elaboration from the authors, which I detail below.

First, I am a little sceptical of the extent to which the tasks are able to measure navigational or perceptual experience with the scenes. The training procedure seems like it wouldn't require obtaining substantial navigational experience as the environments are all relatively simple and only require participants to follow basic paths, rather than encouraging more active exploration of a more complex environment. Furthermore, in the same/different task, all images show the same view of the environment (meaning they show the exact same image in the "same environment" condition). The task is therefore really a simple image-matching task and doesn't require participants to meaningfully extract the perceptual or spatial features of the scenes. An alternative would have been to present different views of the scenes, which would have prevented the use of image-matching and encouraged further engagement with the scenes themselves. Ultimately, the authors do still find a response time difference between the navigation conditions, but the effect does appear quite small. I wonder if the design choices could be obscuring larger effects, which might have been better evident if the navigational and perceptual tasks had encouraged greater encoding of the spatial and perceptual features of the environment. I think it would be helpful for the authors to explain their reasons for not employing such designs, or to at least give some consideration to alternative designs.

Figure 1B illustrates that the non-navigable condition includes a more complicated environment than the navigable condition, and requires following a longer path with more turns in it. I guess this is a necessary consequence of the experiment design, as the non-navigable condition requires participants to turn around and find an alternative route. Still, this does introduce spatial and perceptual differences between the two navigation conditions, which could be a confounding factor. What do the response times for the "matched" condition in the same/different task look like if they are broken down by the navigable and non-navigable environments? If there is a substantial difference between them, it could be that this is driving the difference between the matched and mismatched conditions, rather than the matching/mismatching experience itself.

In both experiments, the authors determined their sample sizes via a priori power analyses. This is good, but a bit more detail on these analyses would be helpful. How were the effect sizes estimated? The authors say it was based on other studies with similar methodologies - does this mean the effect sizes were obtained from a literature search? If so, it would be good to give some details of the studies included in this search, and how the effect size was obtained from these (e.g., it is generally recommended to take a lower bound over studies). Or is the effect size based on standard guidelines (e.g., Cohen's d ≈ 0.5 is a medium effect size)? If so, why are the effect sizes different for the two studies?

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Summary:

Li and colleagues applied virtual reality (VR) based training to create different navigational experiences for a set of visually similar scenes. They found that participants were better at visually discriminating scenes with different navigational experiences compared to scenes with similar navigational experiences. Moreover, this experience-based effect was also reflected in the fMRI data, with the PPA showing higher discriminability for scenes with different navigational experiences. Together, their results suggest that previous navigational experiences shape visual scene representation.

Strengths:

(1) The work has theoretical value as it provides novel evidence to the ongoing debate between visual and non-visual contributions to scene representation. While the idea that visual scene representation can encode navigational affordances is not new (e.g., Bonner & Epstein, 2017, PNAS), this study is one of the first to demonstrate that navigational experiences can causally shape visual scene representation. Thus, it serves as a strong test for the hypothesis that our visual scene representations involve encoding top-down navigational information.

(2) The training paradigm with VR is novel and has the potential to be used by the broader community to explore the impact of experience on other categorical visual representations.

(3) The converging evidence from behavioral and fMRI experiments consolidates the work's conclusion.

Weaknesses:

(1) While this work attempts to demonstrate the effect of navigational experience on visual scene representation, it's not immediately clear to what extent such an effect necessarily reflects altered visual representations. Given that scenes in the navigable condition were more explored and had distinct contextual associations than scenes in the non-navigable condition (where participants simply turned around), could the shorter response time for a scene pair with mismatched navigability be explained by the facilitation of different contextual associations or scene familiarities, rather than changes in perceptual representations? Especially when the visual similarity of the scenes was high and different visual cues might not have been immediately available to participants, the different contextual associations and/or familiarity could serve as indirect cues to facilitate participants' judgment, even if perceptual representations remained intact.

(2) Similarly, the above-chance fMRI classification results in the PPA could also be explained by the different contextual associations and/or scene familiarities between navigable and non-navigable scenes, rather than different perceptual processes related to scene identification.

(3) For the fMRI results, the specificity of the experience effect on the PPA is not strictly established, making the statement "such top-down effect was unique to the PPA" groundless. A significant interaction between navigational conditions and ROIs would be required to make such a claim.

(4) For the behavioral results, the p-value of the interaction between groups and the navigational conditions was 0.05. I think this is not a convincing p-value to rule out visual confounding for the training group. Moreover, from Figure 2B, there appears to be an outlier participant in the control group who deviates dramatically from the rest of the participants. If this outlier is excluded, will the interaction become even less significant?

(5) Experiment 1 only consists of 25 participants in each group. This is quite a small sample size for behavioral studies when there's no replication. It would be more convincing if an independent pre-registered replication study with a larger sample size could be conducted.

Author response:

Data replicability

There are no replicates contained in the manuscript. (Reviewer #1)

We respectfully disagree with this statement. In this manuscript, we included both cell and animal replicates. For cell replicates, we analyzed over 50.000 cells using RNAscope and over 10.000 cells using RNAseq, employing two independent methods on different animals. We believe this extensive analysis is sufficient by any standards. Regarding animal replicates, we generated four different transgenic lines (two knockin lines and two BAC transgenic lines), which is an uncommon and rigorous effort. We analyzed dozens of animals, consistently observing the expression pattern of Smim32 and its derived transgenes across multiple experiments, including crosses between transgenics and various reporter lines, which is again an uncommon and rigorous effort. These experiments were conducted on animals from different litters to ensure robustness. Additionally, our longitudinal study, which includes 13 animals harvested at two-day intervals from E16 to P20, provides further consistency of our data. 

However, to underscore the consistency of endogenous Smim32 expression, when submitting a revised manuscript, we will present Smim32 expression levels across individuals in single-cell RNA-seq data. Furthermore, we will pool data from different transgenic animals to demonstrate interindividual variability in the claustrum of adult animals. 

Additional examples of female mice should also be included and separately quantified. (Reviewer #1)

We initially analyzed both males and females for one line (the Smim32-Cre knock-in line). Since we observed no differences between males and females (which we will note in the revised manuscript), we subsequently limited our analyses to males to minimize the use of animals. 

Claustrum definition

Weaknesses lie in poor anatomical definitions of the claustrum (and endopiriform nucleus). (Reviewer #2)

No other orthogonal approaches were used to define the claustrum, such as retrograde neuroanatomical tracing from cortex. (Reviewer #3)

We share the reviewers’ opinion that the claustrum (CLA) and endopiriform nucleus (EN) are poorly defined anatomically in rodent brains due to the limited development of white matter tracts. This ambiguity has led to many conflicting descriptions of CLA/EN boundaries in various papers and atlases, including those by Paxinos and the Allen Brain Institute. Notably, the Allen Institute frequently updates the shape and anatomical location of the CLA/EN in their reference atlas, resulting in different websites displaying various versions (as illustrated in rebuttal figure 1 at comparable levels of the anteroposterior brain axis). It remains uncertain which version would most effectively satisfy the entire scientific community, if any. Indeed, after many years of working on these structures and surveying the literature, we regret to note that there is currently no consensus on the anatomical definition of the CLA and EN, even among expert laboratories using tracing or staining methods. At one end of the spectrum, some authors define the CLA as a small nucleus that could be, for example, characterized by the PVrich plexus. At the other end, other authors consider it part of a larger complex that includes the EN and extends dorsally to the S2 cortex. Additionally, differing definitions of the core and shell regions, as well as the precise anteroposterior extent of the nucleus, further complicate the issue.

Author response image 1.

Comparison of CLA and EN shapes in two recent versions of the Allen brain atlas

Given this lack of consensus, we deliberately opted for a molecular definition of the claustrum and its projection neurons. We used a set of well-documented canonical markers for the claustrum and neighboring neurons to determine the expression pattern of Smim32. The claustrum-specific markers we selected (Nr4a2, Lxn, Gnb4, Car3, etc.) have been extensively studied and allow us to distinguish claustrum projection neurons from neighboring and intermingled populations. Although none of these individual markers are exclusively specific to CLA and EN neurons, the combined expression of these markers provides greater confidence in identifying the different neuronal populations in space.

Smim32 expression is used to define claustrum anatomical boundaries, rather than first using several structural, molecular, and connectivity lines of evidence to define the claustrum anatomically and then to assess whether Smim32 expression fits within this anatomical definition. (Reviewer #2)

Contrary to the reviewer's suggestion, we do not define the claustrum based on Smim32 expression. Instead, Figures 1 and 2 demonstrate that Smim32 expression is highly correlated with the expression of known claustrum markers (Nr4a2, Lxn, Gnb4, Car3, etc.), both regionally and at the cellular level. As suggested by Peng et al. (2021, Fig. 4 and Extended Data Fig. 11), this population of cells, which includes the claustrum, a specific subset of cells in cortical layer 6, and the dorsal endopiriform nucleus, forms a discrete group of neurons sharing the same transcriptomic identity. Given what is known about the connectivity of claustrum and endopiriform nucleus projection neurons, this population obviously includes neurons projecting to various areas, likely fulfilling distinct functions. Whether these cells should be subdivided based on projection area, developmental origin, or structural features is beyond the scope of this article.

Specificity issues

Cre/Flp expression driven by the Smim32 promoter is present in non-claustrum regions, including the neighboring cortex, striatum, and endopiriform nucleus as well as the more distant thalamic reticular nucleus. (Reviewer #2)

The Smim32 gene is not specific to the claustrum. (Reviewer #3)

We do not claim that endogenous Smim32 expression is exclusive to the claustrum or that the knock-in lines, by themselves, are sufficient to isolate claustrum neurons without combined approaches based on the transgenic lines presented here. However, there are significant differences in the expression pattern between endogenous Smim32 and the expression of Cre in the various derived transgenic lines, which might not have been clear in the current manuscript. Notably, there is no expression of Cre in the striatum and the thalamic reticular nucleus, and only sparse expression in the endopiriform nucleus in Tg61(Smim32-cre). Each transgenic line provides different levels of overlap with the endogenous Smim32 expression, with the Tg61(Smim32-cre)  line allowing for the most specific genetic access to claustrum neurons. Again, for greater specificity, any of these lines could be used in combined approaches, such as viral targeting (as shown in Figure 6A and B) or using transgenic intersectional (dual recombinase) approaches based on Cre- and Flp-expressing mice with an overlap in the claustrum, leading to circuit-specific and/or claustrum-only labeling.

This means that our claims are supported by the observed data. However, we acknowledge that we may not have clearly explained the specificity of the random transgenes, which could have led some reviewers to believe that « the data do not support the claims ».

We will clarify these points in the revised manuscript and include additional examples and quantifications to highlight the differences between endogenous Smim32 expression and Cre expression in the transgenic Tg61(Smim32-cre)  line.

Regarding Cre-expressing cells in the neighboring cortex (layer 6 projection neurons), these cells are genetically distinct from other layer 6 cortical neurons and express the same canonical markers as claustrum projection neurons, likely sharing also the same transcriptomic identity. We will provide a more detailed characterization of these cells in the revised manuscript.

Since Smim32 driven recombinase (in 61 or 62lrod) is not exclusively expressed in the claustrum, it is not clear how Smim32 is an advantage over possible Nr4a2 or, the more selective, GNB4 Cre driver lines. (Reviewer #2)

Over the years, we have found a limited number of Cre lines used in the literature for targeting claustrum neurons. These include Gnb4-cre, Slc17a6-cre (also known as Vglut2-cre), Egr2-cre, Tg(Tbx21-cre), Ntng2-cre, Cux2-cre and Esr2-cre lines. We have not found any study describing and/or using an Nr4a2-cre line. Although a Nr4a2-Dre line exists (that we have studied in our laboratories), caution is warranted in its use, as it lacks the complete coding sequence of the Nr4a2 gene.

One problem with Nr4a2 is its documented expression in the adjacent Layer 6b cortical neurons, which discards it as a suitable candidate to selectively target the claustrum. Furthermore, Nr4a2 is also expressed in a majority of the endopiriform nucleus neurons, whereas endogenous Smim32 is expressed in a smaller proportion of these cells, and is restricted mainly to the dorsal endopiriform nucleus. These reasons led us to select Smim32 over Nr4a2.

Author response image 2.

(A) In situ hybridization for various CLA/EN marker genes. (B) Developmental recombination observed outside the CLA/EN in various cre lines (all data from the Allen brain databases)

What are the advantages of using the different Smim32-cre lines over the existing Cre lines mentioned above?

Let’s first consider the Gnb4-cre line, which is considered one of the best available. Although the endogenous Gnb4 gene appears to have a similar expression pattern to Nr4a2, Slc17a6, and Smim32 in the striato-claustro-insular region of adult mice (Rebuttal Figure 2A), the results observed with the Gnb4-cre line either shows otherwise, or indicate that the Cre line does not fully recapitulate Gnb4 endogenous expression (Rebuttal Figure 3). Indeed some neurons in the insular cortex, piriform cortex, and putamen express the Cre recombinase (possibly due to low Gnb4 expression not detected in the in situ hybridization data of the Allen brain institute or due to nonspecific transgene expression) and will recombine viral vectors injected in adult mice (Rebuttal Figure 3). Therefore, this Cre expression outside the CLA/EN neurons in the Gnb4-cre line presents complications for data interpretation, depending on the viral injection coordinates and the quantity of injected vectors. 

Author response image 3.

Specificity of the Gnb4-Cre line tested with viral transduction in adult mice (all data from the Allen Brain Institute database). The top and middle rows display the same data but with different scaling of the lookup tables to highlight either the patterns of axonal projections (top) or the infected neurons themselves (middle). The bottom row shows a higher magnification of the infection site. Note that individual neurons cannot be resolved in experiment 485903475 due to signal saturation.  

Cre expression in the CLA appears more specific in the various Smim32-cre transgenic lines than in many of the lines mentioned above. Although we have no doubt that the different existing transgenic lines can target CLA neurons, the selectivity of the targeting (for example, the fraction and types of CLA neurons versus potential non-CLA neurons) remains to be fully described for most of the lines. It is particularly true in the case of Tbx21 and Esr2 (used as drivers for the Tg(Tbx21-cre) and Esr2-cre transgenic lines). Tbx21 is not endogenously expressed in adult CLA neurons (evaluated by in situ and RNAseq data) and Egr2, if expressed in the claustrum, is not restricted to CLA neurons as it is an immediate early gene expressed in recently active neurons (Rebuttal Figure 2A). 

Cre expression in the EN is observed in all Cre-expressing transgenic lines used to target the claustrum (with the exception of Slc17a6-cre). This can naturally be problematic for some approaches. Luckily, the random integrant Tg61(Smim32-cre) we describe in our manuscript shows a strong expression in the claustrum, and very limited expression outside the CLA (a very weak activity in the EN), representing a novel tool with improved claustrum selectivity. An advantage of the Tg61(Smim32-cre) over the Slc17a6-cre is that more CLA neurons can be targeted with the Tg61(Smim32-cre) line. 

Another advantage of our four transgenic lines is their versatility; they can be used to recombine reporter lines as well as FRT-floxed and loxP-floxed knockouts in limited neuronal populations. They will be employed in the future for intersectional genetics to exclusively target CLA neurons. Existing transgenic lines cannot offer these possibilities because their marker genes are broadly expressed in the brain during embryogenesis, leading to the impact on a large number of non-CLA/EN neurons. This is evident in the Gnb4-cre and Slc17a6-cre lines crossed with the Ai14 reporter line expressing the fluorescent protein tomato (Rebuttal Figure 2B, right panels). Similar observations have been made for the Ntng2-Cre and Cux2-cre lines (see the Allen Brain Institute database for these data). Alternatively, inducible recombinase systems, such as the Gnb4-IRES2CreERT2-D line, could be used. However, the Gnb4-IRES2-CreERT2-D line requires tamoxifen to induce Cre recombination, which can be problematic depending on the research context, as well as recombinations in the absence of tamoxifen treatment (see experiments 560948627 and 560948194 in the Allen Brain database).

It is unclear how Smim32 relates to claustrum in other mammalian species (e.g. primates) (Reviewer #3)

As mentioned in the last paragraph of the introduction of the initial manuscript, Smim32 is specifically expressed in the claustrum of a primate species, Homo sapiens (reference 37 of the initially submitted manuscript).

Availability of the transgenic mice

These mice should be made available to the community through commercial vendors. (Reviewer #1 and #2 in private comments)

We are pleased to see that two of the three reviewers would like to see these mice available. These mice will not be kept for ourselves, and we will distribute them at some point in time, but this will naturally occur after the publication of the revised manuscript.

Critical comments on discussion and other topics

A clear description of the search in the Allen Mouse Brain Atlas is missing. A search for Smim32 in the ISH mouse atlas did not provide any hits and so it would be useful to include in the methods or results section the exact query used for examination of Smim32 expression as well as other genes identified in this process. (Reviewer #2)

Smim32 has been referred to by different names in various versions of the mouse genome. For the readers not versed in navigating genomes and annotations, before being officially named Smim32, this gene was originally called Gm6753 (as noted in the Allen Brain Institute database, see Rebuttal Figure 2A for an example of their in situ data) and later Gm45623.

Several sentences highlighting the shortfalls of other approaches are overstated and should be toned down. (Reviewer #1)

Very concerning is problematic language in the abstract and introduction sections that diminish the impact of several published studies (not cited) that have led to important findings regarding claustrum function. The authors create an argument that all the research performed thus far on the claustrum is unreliable because targeting the structure has been sub-optimal. (Reviewer #2)

A more balanced discussion of the strengths and weaknesses of these mice should be included. (Reviewer #1)

We regret if our choice of language inadvertently appeared to undermine the contributions of our colleagues; that was certainly not our intention. The paragraph in question was meant to address certain studies that we believe have led to inconsistent findings and unreliable data due to a lack of rigorous methodology in targeting claustrum projection neurons. To avoid singling out specific works, we chose not to cite them directly. We understand that some colleagues whose research does not fall under the “various cases” mentioned may feel unfairly targeted by this statement. We will revise this section to better clarify our intent and ensure it is respectful of all contributions. We will rephrase passages in the abstract, introduction, and discussion to provide a balanced view of the strengths and weaknesses of these mice.

Our main goal is to provide tools to specifically target claustrum cells based on their transcriptomic identity, which we believe is the best means to assess the function of any neuronal population. Due to the intermingling of claustrum neurons with neighboring populations, employing stereotaxic injections in the claustrum without genetic segregation will always infect and label physically adjacent cells that do not belong to the claustrum, ontologically and functionally speaking. 

Similarly, targeting claustrum neurons retrogradely by injecting into claustrum projection sites likely labels neurons from different populations. For instance, as reviewer 1 mentions Erwin et al. (2021), infecting retrosplenial projections without genetic specificity labels many claustrum Synpr+ neurons (considered the claustrum core), a small proportion of claustrum Nnat+ neurons (considered the claustrum shell by some, and non-claustrum neurons by others), and some neighboring cortical L6b neurons. These three populations have very different transcriptomic identities, connectivity patterns, and likely distinct functions.

Thus, we believe that genetic specificity provides an important added value for selectively targeting the claustrum or claustro-insular complex.

A better characterization of all data should be undertaken. (Reviewer #1)

Having generated hundreds of transgenic lines over the years, we have never performed a more thorough analysis of transgenic lines, nor have a recollection of reading a publication evaluating at such a precise level the expression pattern of transgenes in mice. We, therefore, do not see exactly what the reviewer means by this remark. It is possible, not being native English speakers, that we did not grasp a certain form of joke.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

Summary:

This paper investigates the mechanism of axon growth directed by the conserved guidance cue UNC-6/Netrin. Experiments were designed to distinguish between alternative models in which UNC-6/Netrin functions as either a short-range (haptotactic) cue or a diffusible (chemotactic) signal that steers axons to their final destinations. In each case, axonal growth cones execute ventrally directed outgrowth toward a proximal source of UNC-6/Netrin. This work concludes that UNC-6/Netrin functions as both a haptotactic and chemotactic cue to polarize the UNC-40/DCC receptor on the growth cone membrane facing the direction of growth. Ventrally directed axons initially contact a minor longitudinal nerve tract (vSLNC) at which UNC-6/Netrin appears to be concentrated before proceeding in the direction of the ventral nerve cord (VNC) from which UNC-6/Netrin is secreted. Time-lapse imaging revealed that growth cones appear to pause at the vSLNC before actively extending ventrally directed filopodia that eventually contact the VNC. Growth cone contacts with the vSLNC were unstable in unc-6 mutants but were restored by the expression of a membrane-tethered UNC-6 in vSLNC neurons. In addition, the expression of membrane-tethered UNC-6/Netrin in the VNC was not sufficient to rescue initial ventral outgrowth in an unc-6 mutant. Finally, dual expression of membrane-tethered UNC-6/Netrin in both vSLNC and VNC partially rescued the unc-6 mutant axon guidance defect, thus suggesting that diffusible UNC-6 is also required. This work is important because it potentially resolves the controversial question of how UNC-6/Netrin directs axon guidance by proposing a model in which both of the competing mechanisms, e.g., haptotaxis vs chemotaxis, are successively employed. The impact of this work is bolstered by its use of powerful imaging and genetic methods to test models of UNC-6/Netrin function in vivo thereby obviating potential artifacts arising from in vitro analysis.

Strengths:

A strength of this approach is the adoption of the model organism C. elegans to exploit its ready accessibility to live cell imaging and powerful methods for genetic analysis.

Weaknesses:

A membrane-tethered version of UNC-6/Netrin was constructed to test its haptotactic role, but its neuron-specific expression and membrane localization are not directly determined although this should be technically feasible. Time-lapse imaging is a key strength of multiple experiments but only one movie is provided for readers to review.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Nichols et al studied the role of axon guidance molecules and their receptors and how these work as long-range and/or local cues, using in-vivo time-lapse imaging in C. elegans. They found that the Netrin axon guidance system works in different modes when acting as a long-range (chemotaxis) cue vs local cue (haptotaxis). As an initial context, they take advantage of the postembryonic-born neuron, PDE, to understand how its axon grows and then is guided into its target. They found that this process occurs in various discrete steps, during which the growth cone migrates and pauses at specific structures, such as the vSLNC. The role of the UNC-6/Netrin and UNC-40/DCC axon guidance ligand-receptor pair was then looked at in terms of its requirement for<br /> (1) initial axon outgrowth direction<br /> (2) stabilization at the intermediate target<br /> (3) directional branching from the sublateral region or<br /> (4) ventral growth from the intermediate target to the VNC.

They found that each step is disrupted in the unc-6/Netrin and unc-40/DCC mutants and observed how the localization of these proteins changed during the process of axon guidance in wild-type and mutant contexts. These observations were further supported by analysis of a mutant important for the regulation of Netrin signaling, the E3 ubiquitin ligase madd-2/Trim9/Trim67. Remarkably, the authors identified that this mutant affected axonal adhesion and stabilization, but not directional growth. Using membrane-tethered UNC-6 to specific localities, they then found this to be a consequence of the availability of UNC-6 at specific localities within the axon growth path. Altogether, this data and in-vivo analysis provide compelling evidence of the mechanistic foundation of Netrin-mediated axon guidance and how it works step by step.

The conclusions are well-supported, with both imaging and quantification of each step of axon guidance and localization of UNC-6 and UNC-40. Using a different type of neuron to validate their findings further supports their conclusions and strengthens their model. It's not yet known whether this model holds true for other ligand-receptor pairs, but the current work sets the stage for future analysis of other axon guidance molecules using time-lapse in-vivo imaging. There are still two outstanding questions that are important to address to support the authors' model and conclusions.

(1) The results of UNC-6-TM expression at different locations are clear and support the conclusions but need to consider that there's no diffusible UNC-6 available. What would happen if UNC-6 is tethered to the membrane in an otherwise completely 'normal' UNC-6 gradient. Does the axon guidance ensue normally or does it get stuck in the respective site of the membrane tethered-UNC-6 and doesn't continue to outgrow properly? This is an important control (expression of the UNC-6-TM at the vSLNC or VNC in the wild type background) that would help clarify this question and gain a better insight into the separability of both axon guidance steps and the ability to manipulate these.

(2) Axon guidance systems do not work in a vacuum and are generally competing against each other. For example, the SLT-1/Slit and SAX-3/ROBO axon guidance ligand-receptor pair is also required for PDE, and other post-embryonic neurons, axon guidance. It would be interesting to test mutants for these genes with the membrane tethered-UNC-6 to determine if the different steps of axon guidance are disrupted and if so, to what degree these are disrupted.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

Summary:

This manuscript from Nichols, Lee, and Shen tackles an important question of how unc6/netrin promotes axon guidance: i.e. haptotaxis vs chemotaxis. This has recently been a large topic of investigation and discussion in the axon guidance field. Using live cell imaging of unc6/netrin and unc40/DCC in several neurons that extend axons ventrally during development, as well as TM localized mutants of Unc6, they suggest that unc6 promotes first haptotaxis of the emerging growth cone followed by chemotaxis of the growth cone. This is timely, as a recent preprint from the Lundquist group, using a similar strategy to make only a TM anchored unc6 similarly found that this could rescue only the haptotaxis-like growth of the PDE neuron, but not the second phase of growth. However, their conclusions were quite different based on the overexpression of unc6 everywhere rescuing the second phase, and thus they conclude that a gradient is not present.

Strengths:

As this has been quite a controversy in both the invertebrate and vertebrate field, one strength of this paper is that they use an unc6-neon green to demonstrate unc6 localization, and show a gradient of localization.

Weaknesses:

This is important, although it could be strengthened by first showing a more zoomed-out image of unc6 in the animal, and second demonstrating the localization of the transmembrane anchored unc6 mutants, to help define what may be the "diffusible Unc6". I suggest two additional experimental or analysis suggestions: First, the authors clarify the phenotype of ventral emergence of the growth cone. Though the manuscript images suggest that no matter the mutant there is ventral emergence of the growth cone, but then later defects, yet they claim ventral emergence defects with the UNC6 tethered mutants, but there is no comparison of rose plots. This is confusing and needs to be addressed. Second, I have concerns that the analysis of unc40 polarization may be misleading in some cases when there appears to indeed be accumulation in the growth cone, but since the only analysis shown is relative to the rest of the cell, that can be lost.

eLife assessment

This study provides a potentially valuable understanding of the contribution of different striatal subregions, the anterior Dorsal Lateral Striatum (aDLS) and the posterior Ventrolateral Striatum (pVLS), to auditory discrimination learning. The combined methods used to probe this are compelling, yet the data presented are incomplete to support the conclusions. There is insufficient data visualization of learning vs. performance, and missing details about timing of manipulations and microPET imaging.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

Summary:

In this study, Setogawa et al. employ an auditory discrimination task in freely moving rats, coupled with small animal imaging, electrophysiological recordings, and pharmacological inhibition/lesioning experiments to better understand the role of two striatal subregions: the anterior Dorsal Lateral Striatum (aDLS) and the posterior Ventrolateral Striatum (pVLS), during auditory discrimination learning. Attempting to better understand the contribution of different striatal subregions to sensory discrimination learning strikes me as a highly relevant and timely question, and the data presented in this study are certainly of major interest to the field. The authors have set up a robust behavioral task and systematically tackled the question about a striatal role in learning with multiple observational and manipulative techniques. Additionally, the structured approach the authors take by using neuroimaging to inform their pharmacological manipulation experiments and electrophysiological recordings is a strength.

However, the results as they are currently presented are not easy to follow and could use some restructuring, especially the electrophysiology. Also, the main conclusion that the authors draw from the data, that aDLS and pVLS contribute to different phases of discrimination learning and influence the animal's response strategy in different ways, is not strongly supported by the data and deserves some additional caveats and limitations of the study in the discussion.

Strengths:

See above. In addition, the electrophysiology data is a major strength.

Weaknesses:

(1) The authors have rigorously used PET neuroimaging, which is an interesting non-invasive method to track brain activity during behavioral states. However, in the case of a freely moving behavior where the scans are performed ~30 minutes after the behavioral task, it is unclear what conclusions can be drawn about task-specific brain activity. The study hinges on the neuroimaging findings that both areas of the lateral striatum (aDLS and pVLS) show increased activity during acquisition, but the DMS shows a reduction in activity during the late stages of behavior, and some of these findings are later validated with complementary experiments. However, the limitations of this technique can be further elaborated on in the discussion and the conclusions.

a) In commenting on the unilateral shifts in brain striatal activity during behavior, the authors use the single lever task as a control, where many variables affecting neuronal activity might be different than in the discriminatory task. The study might be better served using Day 2 measurements as a control against which to compare activity of all other sessions since the task structures are similar.<br /> b) From the plots in J, K, and L, it seems that shifts in activity in the different substructures are not unilateral but consistently bilateral, in contrast to what is mentioned in the text. Possibly the text reflects comparisons to the single lever task, and here again, I would emphasize comparing within the same task.

(2) In Figure 2, the authors present compelling data that chronic excitotoxic lesions with ibotenic acid in the aDLS, pVLS, and DMS produce differential effects on discrimination learning. However, the significant reduction in success rate of performance happens as early as Day 6 in both IBO groups in both aDLS and pVLS mice. This would seem to agree with conclusions drawn about the role of aDLS in the middle stages of learning in Figure 2, but not the pVLS, which only shows an increased activity during the late stages of the behavior.

(3) In Figure 4, the authors show interesting data with transient inactivation of subregions of the striatum with muscimol, validating their findings that the aDLS mediates the middle and the pVLS the late stages of learning, and the function of each area serves different strategies. However, the inference that aDLS inactivation suppresses the WSW strategy "moderately" is not reflected in the formal statistical value p=0.06. While there still may be a subtle effect, the authors would need to revise their conclusions appropriately to reflect the data. In addition, the authors could try a direct comparison between the success rate during muscimol inhibition in the mid-learning session between the aDLS and pVLS-treated groups in Figure 4C (middle) and 4D (middle). If this comparison is not significant, the authors should be careful to claim that inhibition of these two areas differentially affects behavior.

(4) The authors have used in-vivo electrophysiological techniques to systematically investigate the roles of the aDLS and the pVLS in discriminatory learning, and have done a thorough analysis of responses with each phase of behavior over the course of learning. This is a commendable and extremely informative dataset and is a strength of the study. However, the result could be better organized following the sequence of events of the behavioral task to give the reader an easier structure to follow. Ideally, this would involve an individual figure to compare the responses in both areas to Cue, Lever Press, Reward Sound, and First Lick (in this order).

(5) An important conceptual point presented in the study is that the aDLS neurons, with learning, show a reduction in firing rates and responsiveness to the first lick as well as the behavioral outcome, and don't play a role in other task-related events such as cue onset. However, the neuroimaging data in Figure 2 seems to suggest a transient enhancement of aDLS activity in the mid-stage of discriminatory learning, that is not reflected in the electrophysiology data. Is there an explanation for this difference?

(6) A significant finding of the study is that CO-HR and CO-LL responses are strikingly obvious in the pVLS, but not in the aDLS, in line with the literature that the posterior (sensory) striatum processes sound. This study also shows that responses to the high-frequency tone indicating a correct right-lever choice increase with learning in contrast to the low-frequency tone responses. To further address whether this difference arises from the task contingency, and not from the frequency representation of the pVLS, an important control would be to switch the cue-response association in a separate group of mice, such that high-frequency tones require a left lever press and vice versa. This would also help tease apart task-evoked responses in the aDLS, as I am given to understand all the recording sites were in the left striatum.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

The study by Setogawa et al. aims to understand the role that different striatal subregions belonging to parallel brain circuits have in associative learning and discrimination learning (S-O-R and S-R tasks). Strengths of the study are the use of multiple methodologies to measure and manipulate brain activity in rats, from microPET imaging to excitotoxic lesions and multielectrode recordings across anterior dorsolateral (aDLS), posterior ventral lateral (pVLS)and dorsomedial (DMS) striatum.

The main conclusions are that the aDLS promotes stimulus-response association and suppresses response-outcome associations. The pVLS is engaged in the formation and maintenance of the stimulus-response association. There is a lot of work done and some interesting findings however, the manuscript can be improved by clarifying the presentation and reasoning. The inclusion of important controls will enhance the rigor of the data interpretation and conclusions.

eLife assessment

This important study compared the brain development trajectories of humans and macaque monkeys to quantify different evolutionary effects of convergent and divergent neural pathways between the two species. The cross-species evidence is solid, based on brain age prediction models that were carefully developed by using public MRI datasets of both humans and macaque monkeys. The findings will be of interest to neuroscientists, developmental biologists, and evolutionary biologists.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

The authors conducted cross-species comparisons between the human brain and the macaque brain to disentangle the specific characteristics of structural development of the human brain. Although previous studies had revealed similarities and differences in brain anatomy between the two species by spatially aligning the brains, the authors made the comparison along the chronological axis by establishing models for predicting the chronological ages with the inputting brain structural features. The rationale is actually clear given that brain development occurs over time in both. More interestingly, the model trained on macaque data was better able to predict the age of humans than the human-trained model was at predicting macaque age. This revealed a brain cross-species age gap (BCAP) that quantified the discrepancy in brain development between the two species, and the authors even found this BCAP measure was associated with performance on behavioral tests in humans. Overall, this study provides important and novel insights into the unique characteristics of human brain development. The authors have employed a rigorous scientific approach, reflecting diligent efforts to scrutinize the patterns of brain age models across species. The clarity of the rationale, the interpretability of the methods, and the quality of the presentation all contribute to the strength of this work.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

In the current study, Li et al. developed a novel approach that aligns chronological age to a cross-species brain age prediction model to investigate the evolutionary effect. This method revealed some interesting findings, like the brain-age gap of the macaque model in predicting human age will increase as chronological age increases, suggesting an evolutionary alignment between the macaque brain and the human brain in the early stage of development. This study exhibits ample novelty and research significance. However, I still have some concerns regarding the reliability of the current findings.

(1) Although the authors named their new method a "cross-species" model, the current study only focused on the prediction between humans and macaques. It would be better to discuss whether their method can also generalize to cross-species examination of other species (e.g., C. elegans), which may provide more comprehensive evolutionary insights. Also, other future directions with their new method are worth discussing.

(2) Algorithm of prediction model. In the method section, the authors only described how they chose features, but did no description about the algorithm (e.g., supporting vector regression) they used. Please add relevant descriptions to the methods.

(3) Sex difference. The sex difference results are strange to me. For example, in the second row of Figure Supplement 3A, different models show different correlation patterns, but why their Pearson's r is all equal to 0.3939? If they are only typo errors, please correct them. The authors claimed that they found no sex difference. However, the results in Figure Supplement 3 show that, the female seems to have poorer performance in predicting macaque age from the human model. Moreover, accumulated studies have reported sex differences in developing brains (Hines, 2011; Kurth et al., 2021). I think it is also worth discussing why sex differences can't be found in the evolutionary effect.

Reference:<br /> Hines, M. (2011). Gender development and the human brain. Annual review of neuroscience, 34, 69-88.<br /> Kurth, F., Gaser, C., & Luders, E. (2021). Development of sex differences in the human brain. Cognitive Neuroscience, 12(3-4), 155-162.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

SUMMARY:

The authors identified a series of WM and GM features that correlated with age in human and macaque structural imaging data. The data was gathered from the HCP and WA studies, which was parcellated in order to yield a set of features. Features that correlated with age were used to train predictive intra and inter-species models of human and macaque age. Interestingly, while each model accurately predicted the corresponding species age, using the macaque model to predict human age was more accurate than the inverse (using the human model to predict macaque age). In addition, the prediction error of the macaque model in predicting human age increased with age, whereas the prediction error of the human model predicting macaque age decreased with age.

After elaboration of the predictive models, the authors classified the features for prediction into human-specific, macaque-specific and common to human and macaque, where they most notably found that macaque-only and common human-macaque areas were located mainly in gray matter, with only a few human-specific features found in gray matter. Furthermore, the authors found significant correlations between BCAP and picture vocabulary (positive correlation) test and visual sensitivity (negative correlation) test. Several white matter tracts (AF, OR, SLFII) were also identified showing a correlation with BCAP.

STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES

The paper brings an interesting perspective on the evolutionary trajectories of human and non-human primate brain structure, and its relation to behavior and cognition. Overall, the methods are robust and support the theoretical background of the paper. However, the overall clarity of the paper could be improved. There are many convoluted sentences and there seems to be both repetition across the different sections and unclear or missing information. For example, the Introduction does not clearly state the research questions, rather just briefly mentions research gaps existing in the literature and follows by describing the experimental method. It would be desirable to clearly state the theoretical background and research questions and leave out details on methodology.<br /> In addition, the results section repeats a lot of what is already stated in the methods. This could be further simplified and make the paper much easier to read.<br /> In the discussion, authors mention that "findings about cortex expansion are inconsistent and even contradictory", a more convincing argument could be made by elaborating on why the cortex expansion index is inadequate and how BCAP is more accurate.

STUDY AIMS AND STRENGTH OF CONCLUSIONS

Overall, the methods are robust and support the theoretical background of the paper, but it would be good to state the specific research questions -even if exploratory in nature- more specifically. Nevertheless, the results provide support for the research aims.

IMPACT OF THE WORK AND UTILITY OF METHODS AND DATA TO THE COMMUNITY

This study is a good first step in providing a new insight into the neurodevelopmental trajectories of humans and non-human primates besides the existing cortical expansion theories.

ADDITIONAL CONTEXT:

It should be clearly stated both in the abstract and methods that the data used for the experiment came from public databases.

eLife assessment

This important work offers an experimental structural characterization of the Tramtrack-like BTB/POZ domains in insects, revealing that these domains form stable hexameric assemblies. The structural evidence is convincing, and validated by fold prediction and evolutionary pathway analyses. This paper would be of interest to structural and evolutionary biologists.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

Using structural analysis, Bonchuk and colleagues demonstrate that the TTK-like BTB/POZs of insects form stable hexameric assemblies composed of trimers of POZ dimers, a configuration observed consistently across both homomultimers and heteromultimers, which are known to be formed by TTK-like BTB/POZ domains. The structural data is comprehensive, unambiguous, and further supported by theoretical fold prediction analyses. In particular the judicious complementation of experiments and fold prediction is commendable. This study now adds an important cog that might help generalize the general principles of the evolution of multimerization in members of this fold family.

I strongly feel that enhancing the inclusivity of the discussion would strengthen the paper. Below, I suggest some additional points for consideration for the same.

Major points.<br /> (1) It would be valuable to discuss alternative multimer assembly interfaces, considering the diverse ways POZs can multimerize. For instance, the Potassium channel POZ domains form tetramers. A comparison of their inter-subunit interface with that of TTK and non-TTK POZs could provide insightful contrasts.

(2) The so-called TTK motif, despite its unique sequence signature, essentially corresponds to the N-terminal extension observed in other "non-TTK" proteins such as Miz-1. Given Miz-1's structure, it becomes evident that the utilization of the N-terminal extension for dimerization is shared with the TTK family, suggesting a common evolutionary origin in metazoan transcription factors. Early phylogenetic trees (e.g. in PMID: 9917379) support the grouping of the TTK-like POZs with other animal Transcription factors containing POZ domains such as those with Kelch repeats further suggesting that the extension might be ancestral. Structural investigations by modeling prominent examples or comparing known structures of similar POZ domains, could support this inference. Control comparisons with POZ domains from fungi, plants and amoebozoans like Dictyostelium could offer additional insights.

(3) Exploring the ancestral presence of the aforementioned extension in metazoan transcription factors could serve as a foundation for understanding the evolutionary pathway of hexamerization. This analysis could shed light on exposed structural regions that had the potential to interact post-dimerization with the N-terminal extension and also might provide insights into the evolution of multimer interfaces, as observed in the Potassium channel.

(4) Considering the role of conserved residues in the multimer interface is crucial. Reference to conserved residues involved in multimer formation, such as discussed in PMID: 9917379, would enrich the discussion.

eLife assessment

This important study explores and delineates multivariate mappings between brain structure and functional measures with latent dimensions of psychopathology. This work provides solid evidence for the existence of such mappings and charts the relationship between different neurobiological measures and distinct dimensions of psychopathology. This work will be of broad interest within the neuroscience field.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

This report describes work aiming to delineate multi-modal MRI correlates of psychopathology from a large cohort of children of 9-11 years from the ABCD cohort. While uni-modal characterisations have been made, the authors rightly argue that multi-modal approaches in imaging are vital to comprehensively and robustly capture modes of large-scale brain variation that may be associated with pathology. The primary analysis integrates structural and resting-state functional data, while post-hoc analyses on subsamples incorporate task and diffusion data. Five latent components (LCs) are identified, with the first three, corresponding to p-factor, internal/externalising, and neurodevelopmental Michelini Factors, described in detail. In addition, associations of these components with primary and secondary RSFC functional gradients were identified, and LCs were validated in a replication sample via assessment of correlations of loadings.

This work is clearly novel and a comprehensive study of associations within this dataset. Multi-modal analyses are challenging to perform, but this work is methodologically rigorous, with careful implementation of discovery and replication assessments, and primary and exploratory analyses. The ABCD dataset is large, and behavioural and MRI protocols seem appropriate and extensive enough for this study. The study lays out comprehensive associations between MRI brain measures and behaviour that appear to recapitulate the established hierarchical structure of psychopathology.

The work does have weaknesses, some of them acknowledged. There is limited focus on the strength of observed associations. While the latent component loadings seem reliably reproducible in the behavourial domain, this is considerably less the case in the imaging modalities. A considerable proportion of statistical results focuses on spatial associations in loadings between modalities - it seems likely that these reflect intrinsic correlations between modalities, rather than associations specific to any latent component. Assessment of associations with functional gradients is similarly a little hard to interpret. Thus, it is hard to judge the implications for our understanding of the neurophysiological basis of psychopathology and the ability of MRI to provide clinical tools for, say, stratification. The observation of a recapitulation of psychopathology hierarchy may be somewhat undermined by the relatively modest strength of the components in the imaging domain. The task fMRI was assessed with a fairly basic functional connectivity approach, not using task timings to more specifically extract network responses.

Overall, the authors achieve their aim to provide a detailed multimodal characterisation of MRI correlations of psychopathology. Code and data are available and well organised and should provide a valuable resource for researchers wanting to understand MRI-based neural correlates of psycho-pathology-related behavioural traits in this important age group. It is largely a descriptive study, with comparisons to previous uni-modal work, but without particularly strong testing of neuroscience hypotheses.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

In "Multi-modal Neural Correlates of Childhood Psychopathology" Krebets et al. integrate multi-modal neuroimaging data using machine learning to delineate dissociable links to diverse dimensions of psychopathology in the ABCD sample. This paper had numerous strengths including a superb use of a large resource dataset, appropriate analyses, beautiful visualizations, clear writing, and highly interpretable results from a data-driven analysis. Overall, I think it would certainly be of interest to a general readership.

That being said, I do have several comments for the authors to consider.

- Out-of-sample testing: while the permutation testing procedure for the PLS is entirely appropriate, without out-of-sample testing the reported effect sizes are likely inflated.

- Site/family structure: it was unclear how site/family structure were handled as covariates.

- Anatomical features: I was a bit surprised to see volume, surface area, and thickness all evaluated - and that there were several comments on the correspondence between the SA and volume in the results section. Given that cortical volume is simply a product of SA and CT (and mainly driven by SA), this result may be pre-required.

- Ethnicity: the rationale for regressing ethnicity from the data was unclear and may conflict with current best practices.

- Data quality: the authors did an admirable job in controlling for data quality in the analyses of functional connectivity data. However, it is unclear if a comparable measure of data quality was used for the T1/dMRI analyses. This likely will result in inflated effect sizes in some cases; it has the potential to reduce sensitivity to real effects.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

In this study, the authors utilized the Adolescent Brain Cognitive Development dataset to investigate the relationship between structural and functional brain network patterns and dimensions of psychopathology. They identified multiple components, including a general psychopathology (p) factor that exhibited a strong association with multimodal imaging features. The connectivity signatures associated with the p factor and neurodevelopmental dimensions aligned with the sensory-to-transmodal axis of cortical organization, which is linked to complex cognition and psychopathology risk. The findings were consistent across two separate subsamples and remained robust when accounting for variations in analytical parameters, thus contributing to a better understanding of the biological mechanisms underlying psychopathology dimensions and offering potential brain-based vulnerability markers.

Strengths:<br /> - An intriguing aspect of this study is the integration of multiple neuroimaging modalities, combining structural and functional measures, to comprehensively assess the covariance with various symptom combinations. This approach provides a multidimensional understanding of the risk patterns associated with mental illness development.

- The paper delves deeper into established behavioral latent variables such as the p factor, internalizing, externalizing, and neurodevelopmental dimensions, revealing their distinct associations with morphological and intrinsic functional connectivity signatures. This sheds light on the neurobiological underpinnings of these dimensions.

- The robustness of the findings is a notable strength, as they were validated in a separate replication sample and remained consistent even when accounting for different parameter variations in the analysis methodology. This reinforces the generalizability and reliability of the results.

Weaknesses:

- Based on their findings, the authors suggest that the observed variations in resting-state functional connectivity may indicate shared neurobiological substrates specific to certain symptoms. However, it should be noted that differences in resting-state connectivity between groups can stem from various factors, as highlighted in the existing literature. For instance, discrepancies in the interpretation of instructions during the resting state scan can influence the results. Hence, while their findings may indicate biological distinctions, they could also reflect differences in behavior.

- The authors conducted several analyses to investigate the relationship between imaging loadings associated with latent components and the principal functional gradient. They found several associations between principal gradient scores and both within- and between-network resting-state functional connectivity (RSFC) loadings. Assessing the analysis presented here proves challenging due to the nature of relating loadings, which are partly based on the RSFC, to gradients derived from RSFC. Consequently, a certain level of correlation between these two variables would be expected, making it difficult to determine the significance of the authors' findings. It would be more intriguing if a direct correlation between the composite scores reflecting behavior and the gradients were to yield statistically significant results.

- Lastly, regarding the interpretation of the first identified latent component, I have some reservations. Upon examining the loadings, it appears that LC1 primarily reflects impulse control issues rather than representing a comprehensive p-factor. Furthermore, it is worth noting that within the field, there is an ongoing debate concerning the interpretation and utilization of the p-factor. An insightful publication on this topic is "The p factor is the sum of its parts, for now" (Fried et al, 2021), which explains that the p-factor emerges as a result of a positive manifold, but it does not necessarily provide insights into the underlying mechanisms that generated the data.

eLife assessment

This potentially important work presents a tool for performing phylogenetic taxonomic classification of DNA sequences. In terms of methodology, the work is compelling. The authors perform a benchmark experiment against current state-of-the-art tools using real and simulated datasets to demonstrate where the novel tool stands in the context of existing methods. However, the experimentation is still incomplete. It would benefit from a more thorough exploration of existing methods as well as data sets that better represent real-world use cases.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

In this manuscript, the authors present Tronko, a novel tool for performing phylogenetic assignment of DNA sequences using an approximate likelihood approach. Through a benchmark experiment utilizing several real datasets from mock communities with pre-known composition as well as simulated datasets, the authors show that Tronko is able to achieve higher accuracy than several existing best-practice methods with runtime comparable to the fastest existing method, albeit with significantly higher peak memory usage than existing methods. The benchmark experiment was thorough, and the results clearly support the authors' conclusions. However, the paper could be improved by exploring how certain design choices (e.g. tool selection and parameter choices) may impact Tronko's performance/accuracy, and some relevant existing phylogenetic placement tools are missing and should be included.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

This is, to my knowledge, the most scalable method for phylogenetic placement that uses likelihoods. The tool has an interesting and innovative means of using gaps, which I haven't seen before. In the validation the authors demonstrate superior performance to existing tools for taxonomic annotation (though there are questions about the setup of the validation as described below).

The program is written in C with no library dependencies. This is great. However, I wasn't able to try out the software because the linking failed on Debian 11, and the binary artifact made by the GitHub Actions pipeline was too recent for my GLIBC/kernel. It'd be nice to provide a binary for people stuck on older kernels (our cluster is still on Ubuntu 18.04). Also, would it be hard to publish your .zipped binaries as packages?

Thank you for publishing your source files for the validation on zenodo. Please provide a script that would enable the user to rerun the analysis using those files, either on zenodo or on GitHub somewhere.

The validations need further attention as follows.

First, the authors have not chosen data sets that are not well-aligned with real-world use cases for this software, and as a result, its applicability is difficult to determine. First, the leave-one-species-out experiment made use of COI gene sequences representing 253 species from the order Charadriiformes, which includes bird species such as gulls and terns. What is the reasoning for selecting this data set given the objective of demonstrating the utility of Tronko for large scale community profiling experiments which by their nature tend to include microorganisms as subjects? If the authors are interested in evaluating COI (or another gene target) as a marker for characterizing the composition of eukaryotic populations, is the heterogeneity and species distribution of bird species within order Charadriiformes comparable to what one would expect in populations of organisms that might actually be the target of a metagenomic analysis?

Second, It appears that experiments evaluating performance for 16S were limited to reclassification of sequencing data from mock communities described in two publications, Schirmer (2015, 49 bacteria and 10 archaea, all environmental), and Gohl (2016; 20 bacteria - this is the widely used commercial mock community from BEI, all well-known human pathogens or commensals). The authors performed a comparison with kraken2, metaphlan2, and MEGAN using both the default database for each as well as the same database used for Tronko (kudos for including the latter). This pair of experiments provide a reasonable high-level indication of Tronko's performance relative to other tools, but the total number of organisms is very limited, and particularly limited with respect to the human microbiome. It is also important to point out that these mock communities are composed primarily of type strains and provide limited species-level heterogeneity. The performance of these classification tools on type strains may not be representative of what one would find in natural samples. Thus, the leave-one-individual-out and leave-one-species-out experiments would have been more useful and informative had they been applied to extended 16S data sets representing more ecologically realistic populations.

Finally, the authors should describe the composition of the databases used for classification as well as the strategy (and toolchain) used to select reference sequences. What databases were the reference sequences drawn from and by what criteria? Were the reference databases designed to reflect the composition of the mock communities (and if so, are they limited to species in those communities, or are additional related species included), or have the authors constructed general purpose reference databases? How many representatives of each species were included (on average), and were there efforts to represent a diversity of strains for each species? The methods should include a section detailing the construction of the data sets: as illustrated in this very study, the choice of reference database influences the quality of classification results, and the authors should explain the process and design considerations for database construction.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

Pipes and Nielsen propose a valuable new computational method for assigning individual Next Generation Sequencing (NGS) reads to their taxonomic group of origin, based on comparison with a dataset of reference metabarcode sequences (i.e. using an existing known marker sequence such as COI or 16S). The underlying problem is an important one, with broad applications such as identifying species of origin of smuggled goods, identifying the composition of metagenomics/ microbiomics samples, or detecting the presence of pathogen variants of concern from wastewater surveillance samples. Pipes and Nielsen propose (and make available with open source software) new computational methods, apply those methods to a series of exemplar data analyses mirroring plausible real-life scenarios, and compare the new method's performance to that of various field-leading alternative methods.

In terms of methodology, the manuscript presents a novel computational analyses inspired by standard existing probabilistic phylogenetic models for the evolution of genome sequences. These form the basis for comparisons of each NGS read with a reference database of known examples spanning the taxonomic range of interest. The evolutionary aspects of the models are used (a) to statistically represent knowledge about the reference organisms (and uncertainty about their common ancestors) and their evolutionary relationships; and (b) to derive inferences about the relationship of the sample NGS reads that may be derived from reference organisms or from related organisms not represented in the reference dataset. This general approach has been considered previously and, while expected to be powerful in principle, the reliance of those methods on likelihood computations over a phylogenetic tree structure means they are slow to the point of useless on modern-sized problems that may have many thousands of reference sequences and many millions of NGS reads. Alternative methods that have been devised to be computationally feasible have had to sacrifice the phylogenetic approach, with a consequent loss of statistical power.

Pipes and Nielsen's methodology contribution in this manuscript is to make a series of approximations to the 'ideal' phylogenetic likelihood analysis, aimed at saving computational time and keeping computer memory requirements acceptable whilst retaining as much as possible of the expected power of phylogenetic methods. Their description of their novel methods is solid; as they are largely approximations to other existing methods, their value ultimately will rest with the success of the method in application.

Regarding the application of the new methods, to compare the accuracy of their method with a selection of existing methods the authors use 1) simulated datasets and 2) previously published mock community datasets to query sequencing reads against appropriate reference trees. The authors show that Tronko has a higher success at assigning query reads (at the species/genus/family level) than the existing tools with both datasets. In terms of computational performance, the authors show Tronko outperforms another phylogenetic tool, and is still within reasonable limits when compared with other 'lightweight' tools.

As a demonstration of the power of phylogeny-based methods for taxonomic assignment, this ms. could gain added importance by refocusing the community towards explicitly phylogenetic methods. We agree with the authors that this would be likely to give rise to the most powerful possible methods.

Strengths of this ms. are 1) the focus on phylogenetic approaches and 2) the reduction of a consequently difficult computational problem to a practical method (with freely available software); 3) the reminder that these approaches work well and are worthy of continued interest and development; and ultimately most-importantly 4) the creation of a powerful tool for taxonomic assignment that seems to be at least as good as any other and generally better.

Weaknesses of the manuscript at present are 1) lack of consideration of some other existing methods and approaches, as it would be interesting to know if other ideas had been tried and rejected, or were not compatible with the methods created; 2) some over-simplifications in the description of new methods, with some aspects difficult or impossible to reproduce and some claims unsubstantiated. Further, 3) we are not convinced enough weight has been given to the complexity of 'pre-processing' the reference dataset for each metabarcode (e.g. gene) of interest, which may give the impression that the method is easier to apply to new reference datasets than we think would be the case. Lastly, 4) we encountered some difficulties getting the software installed and running on our computers. It was not possible to resolve every issue in the time available to us to perform our review, and some processing options remain untested.

Overall, the methods that Pipes and Nielsen propose represent an important contribution that both creates a computational resource that is immediately valuable to the community, and emphasises the benefits of phylogenetic methods and provides encouragement for others to continue to work in this area to create still-better methods.

eLife assessment

In this study, Perez-Lopez and colleagues examine an important function of the chemokine CCL28 in mucosal host defenses against the gut bacterial pathogen Salmonella Typhimurium and lung pathogen Acinetobacter baumanii. They find that CCL28-CCR3 axis regulates neutrophil recruitment and function, and promotes bacterial clearance in one infectious context but exacerbates disease against the other pathogen. Therefore, CCL28 plays a critical role in mucosal immunity and neutrophil biology that differentially affects host defenses against pathogens.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

In this manuscript, Perez-Lopez et al. examine the function of the chemokine CCL28, which is expressed highly in mucosal tissues during infection, but its role during infection is poorly understood. They find that CCL28 promotes neutrophil accumulation in the intestines of mice infected with Salmonella and in the lungs of mice infected with Acinetobacter. They find that Ccl28-/- mice are highly susceptible to Salmonella infection, and highly resistant and protected from lethality following Acinetobacter infection. They find that neutrophils express the CCL28 receptors CCR3 and CCR10. CCR3 was pre-formed and intracellular and translocated to the cell surface following phagocytosis or inflammatory stimuli. They also find that CCL28 stimulation of CCR3 promoted neutrophil antimicrobial activity, ROS production, and NET formation, using a combination of primary mouse and human neutrophils for their studies. Overall, the authors' findings provide new and fundamental insight into the role of the CCL28:CCR3 chemokine:chemokine receptor pair in regulating neutrophil recruitment and effector function during infection with the intestinal pathogen Salmonella Typhimurium and the lung pathogen Acinetobacter baumanii.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

In this manuscript by Perez-Lopez et al., the authors investigate the role of the chemokine CCL28 during bacterial infections in mucosal tissues. This is a well-written study with exciting results. They show a role for CCL28 in promoting neutrophil accumulation to the guts of Salmonella-infected mice and to the lung of mice infected with Acinetobacter. Interestingly, the functional consequences of CCL28 deficiency differ between infections with the two different pathogens, with CCL28-deficiency increasing susceptibility to Salmonella, but increasing resistance to Acinetobacter. The underlying mechanistic reasons for this suggest roles for CCL28 in enhanced neutrophil antimicrobial activity, production of reactive oxygen species, and formation of extracellular traps. However, additional experiments are required to shore up these mechanisms, including addressing the role of other CCL28-dependent cell types and further characterization of neutrophils from CCL28-deficient mice.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

The manuscript by Perez-Lopez and colleagues uses a combination of in vivo studies using knockout mice and elegant in vitro studies to explore the role of the chemokine CCL28 during bacterial infection on mucosal surfaces. Using the streptomycin model of Salmonella Typhimurium (S. Tm) infection, the authors demonstrate that CCL28 is required for neutrophil influx in the intestinal mucosa to control pathogen burden both locally and systemically. Interestingly, CCL28 plays the opposite role in a model lung infection by Acinetobacter baumanii, as Ccl28-/- mice are protected from Acinetobacter infection. Authors suggest that the mechanism by which CCL28 plays a role during bacterial infection is due to its role in modulating neutrophil recruitment and function.

The major strengths of the manuscript are:

The novelty of the findings that are described in the manuscript. The role of the chemokine CCL28 in modulating neutrophil function and recruitment in mucosal surfaces is intriguing and novel.

Authors use Ccl28-/- mice in their studies, a mouse strain that has only recently been available. To assess the impact of CCL28 on mucosal surfaces during pathogen-induced inflammation, the authors choose not one but two models of bacterial infection (S. Tm and A. baumanii). This approach increases the rigor and impact of the data presented.

Authors combine the elegant in vivo studies using Ccl28 -/- with in vitro experiments that explore the mechanisms by which CCL28 affects neutrophil function.

The major weaknesses of the manuscript in its present form are:

Authors use different time points in the S. Tm model to characterize the influx of immune cells and pathology. They do not provide a clear justification as to why distinct time points were chosen for their analysis.

Authors provide puzzling data that Ccl28-/- mice have the same numbers of CCR3 and CCR10-expressing neutrophils in the mucosa during infection. It is unclear why the lack of CCL28 expression would not affect the recruitment of neutrophils that express the ligands (CCR3 and CCR10) for this chemokine. Thus, these results need to be better explained.

The in vitro studies focus primarily on characterizing how CCL28 affects the function of neutrophils in response to S. Tm infection. There is a lack of data to demonstrate whether Acinetobacter affects CCR3 and CCR10 expression and recruitment to the cell surface and whether CCL28 plays any role in this process.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

This work describes a novel bipotent differentiation capacity of human muscle progenitors marked by CD56 and CD29. In addition to previously well-known myogenic differentiation potential, the authors discovered these progenitors could also be induced into tenocyte-like cells. They describe the sorted CD56+/CD29+ cells not only differentiate into tenocytes in vitro; they were also able to engraft into injured tendons and repair damaged tendons when transplanted into nude mice. Human MuSC transplantation improved the locomotor function and physiological strength of the tendon-injured mice. The authors further observed that this bipotent differentiation potential was specific to human MuSC, the same cell population isolated from mice remains unipotent to myogenic differentiation and not capable of tenocytic differentiation.

The discovery of the tenocyte differentiation potential of human CD56+/CD29+ MuSCs provides a potential cell therapeutic option for tendon injury. This work may have a significant clinical impact on improving treatment outcomes for patients suffering from tendon injury.

Strength of the paper:

Multimodal experimental approach using both in vitro and in vivo experiments provided strong proof for the differentiation capacity of the human MuSCs into tenocytes, and the potential clinical implication of these cells in the treatment of tendon injury in patients by in vivo transplantation assay. Using RNA sequencing to characterise the differentiated myocytic and tenocytic populations proved global expression profile data which have shown non-biased efficiency information to the in vitro differentiated cells.

The comparison of differentiation potentials of human and mouse MuSCs is interesting and clinically meaningful. This work illustrates that animal studies may not always be clinically relevant in studying human diseases and treatment modalities.

Weaknesses:

scRNAseq assay using total mononuclear cell population did not provide meaningful insight that enriched knowledge on CD56+/CD29+ cell population. CD56+/CD29+ cells information may have been lost due to the minority identity of these cells in the total skeletal muscle mononuclear population, especially given the total cell number used for scRNAseq was very low and no information on participant number and repeat sample number used for this assay. Using this data to claim a stem cell lineage relationship for MuSCs and tenocytes may not convincing, as seeing both cell types in the total muscle mononuclear population does not establish a lineage connection between them.

The TGF-b pathway assay uses a small molecular inhibitor of TGF-b to probe Smad2/3. The assay conclusion regarding Smad2/3 pathway responsible for tenocyte differentiation may be overinterpretation without Smad2/3 specific inhibitors being applied in the experiments.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):<br /> Summary:

In this manuscript, the authors present compelling evidence that CD29+/CD56+ stem/progenitor cells from human muscle biopsies show tenogenic differentiation ability both in vitro and in vivo, alongside their myogenic potential.

Strengths:

The methodology and results are convincing. CD29+/CD56+ stem/progenitor cells were transplanted into immunodeficient mice with a tendon injury, and human cells expressing tenogenic markers contributed to the repair of the injured tendon. Furthermore, the authors also show better tendon biomechanical properties and plantarflexion force after transplantation.

Weaknesses:

This dual differentiation capability was not observed in mouse muscle stem cells.

Author response:

Public Reviews:

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

For the colony analysis, it is unclear from the methods and main text whether the initial individual sorted colonies were split and subject to different conditions to support the claim of bi-potency. The finding that 40% of colonies displayed tenogenic differentiation, may instead suggest heterogeneity of the sorted progenitor population. The methods as currently described, suggest that two different plates were subject to different induction conditions. It is therefore difficult to assess the strength of the claim of bi-potency.

Thanks for your valuable comment. We are sorry for the confusing illustration of colony assay. In fact, we first obtained CD29+/CD56+ cells by FACs. Then these freshly isolated cells were randomly seeded to 96-well plate with density of 1 cell/well. Subsequently, the single cell in each plate was cultured with growth medium to form colonies for ten days. Then myogenic induction was performed in three 96-well plates and tenogenic induction was performed in another three 96-well plates for subsequent analyses. Thus, we agree with your point that the sorted progenitor population could be heterogeneous. Almost all the cells highly expressed myogenic progenitor genes PAX7/MYOD1/MYF5 (Figure 1g) and over 95% colonies successfully differentiated into myotubes (Figure 2g). Thus, we believe these obtained CD29+/CD56+ cells were myogenic progenitor cells, while a subgroup of these cells obtained bi-potency.

This group uses the well-established CD56+/CD29+ sorting strategy to isolate muscle progenitor cells, however recent work has identified transcriptional heterogeneity within these human satellite cells (ie Barruet et al, eLife 2020). Given that they identify a tenocyte population in their human muscle biopsy in Figure 1a, it is critical to understand the heterogeneity contained within the population of human progenitors captured by the authors' FACS strategy and whether tenocytes contained within the muscle biopsy are also CD56+/CD29+.

Thanks for your constructive suggestion. We will include more samples to perform scRNA-seq and reanalyze the data.

The bulk RNA sequencing data presented in Figure 3 to contrast the expression of progenitor cells under different differentiation conditions are not sufficiently convincing. In particular, it is unclear whether more than one sample was used for the RNAseq analyses shown in Figure 3. The volcano plots have many genes aligned on distinct curves suggesting that there are few replicates or low expression. There is also a concern that the sorted cells may contain tenocytes as tendon genes SCX, MKX, and THBS4 were among the genes upregulated in the myogenic differentiation conditions (shown in Figure 3b).

Thanks for your comment. Each group consisted of three samples for RNAseq analyses. We are sorry there exist a minor analysis mistake in Figure 3b and Figure 3c, which will be reanalyzed in the revised version. As for contamination of tenocytes, almost all the obtained cells highly expressed myogenic progenitor marker PAX7/MYOD1/MYF5 (Figure 1g-h). Low expression levels of tendon markers were identified in these cells (Figure 2a-c). Furthermore, although tendon genes slightly upregulated in myogenic differentiation conditions, these markers dramatically upregulated in tenogenic differentiation conditions (Figure 2c). Thus, we believe the tenogenic differentiation ability of sorted cells were mainly ascribed to CD29+/CD56+ myogenic progenitor cells.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

scRNAseq assay using total mononuclear cell population did not provide meaningful insight that enriched knowledge on CD56+/CD29+ cell population. CD56+/CD29+ cells information may have been lost due to the minority identity of these cells in the total skeletal muscle mononuclear population, especially given the total cell number used for scRNAseq was very low and no information on participant number and repeat sample number used for this assay. Using this data to claim a stem cell lineage relationship for MuSCs and tenocytes may not convincing, as seeing both cell types in the total muscle mononuclear population does not establish a lineage connection between them.

Thanks for your constructive suggestion. We will include more samples to perform scRNA-seq and reanalyze the data.

The TGF-b pathway assay uses a small molecular inhibitor of TGF-b to probe Smad2/3. The assay conclusion regarding Smad2/3 pathway responsible for tenocyte differentiation may be overinterpretation without Smad2/3 specific inhibitors being applied in the experiments.

Thanks for your comment. We agree with your comment that we should revise it in the revision version.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

Comment: This dual differentiation capability was not observed in mouse muscle stem cells.

Thanks for your comment. We have explored the tenogenic differentiation potential of mouse MuSCs both in vivo and in vitro. However, low tenogenic differentiation ability was revealed (Figure 4), which might be due to species diversity. Maybe it is more demanding for humans to maintain the homeostasis of the locomotion system and the whole organism locomotion ability in much longer life span and bigger body size. Thus, the current study also indicated that anima studies may not clinically relevant when investigating human diseases.

eLife assessment

The authors made an important finding that CD29+/CD56+ progenitor cells isolated from human muscles have the potential to differentiate to tendons in vitro and in vivo. The author's approach to testing the tenogenesis of the CD29+/CD56+ progenitors is solid, and the conclusion is supported by enough evidence with minor flaws. This work will be of interest to the population who need tendon regeneration from their injury.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

Through a combination of in vitro and in vivo analyses, the authors demonstrate that CD56/CD29 positive progenitor cells from human muscle can be driven towards muscle or tendon fate in vitro and are able to contribute to muscle and tendon fates following transplantation in injured mice. This is in contrast to Pax7-lineage cells from mice which do not contribute to tendon repair in vivo. While the data strongly support that a subset of cells captured by this sorting strategy has tenogenic potential, their claims of progenitor bi-potency are not fully supported by the data as currently presented.

As discussed below, some aspects of the data analysis and sample preparation are incomplete and should be clarified to fully support the claims of the paper.

For the colony analysis, it is unclear from the methods and main text whether the initial individual sorted colonies were split and subject to different conditions to support the claim of bi-potency. The finding that 40% of colonies displayed tenogenic differentiation, may instead suggest heterogeneity of the sorted progenitor population. The methods as currently described, suggest that two different plates were subject to different induction conditions. It is therefore difficult to assess the strength of the claim of bi-potency.

This group uses the well-established CD56+/CD29+ sorting strategy to isolate muscle progenitor cells, however recent work has identified transcriptional heterogeneity within these human satellite cells (ie Barruet et al, eLife 2020). Given that they identify a tenocyte population in their human muscle biopsy in Figure 1a, it is critical to understand the heterogeneity contained within the population of human progenitors captured by the authors' FACS strategy and whether tenocytes contained within the muscle biopsy are also CD56+/CD29+.

The bulk RNA sequencing data presented in Figure 3 to contrast the expression of progenitor cells under different differentiation conditions are not sufficiently convincing. In particular, it is unclear whether more than one sample was used for the RNAseq analyses shown in Figure 3. The volcano plots have many genes aligned on distinct curves suggesting that there are few replicates or low expression. There is also a concern that the sorted cells may contain tenocytes as tendon genes SCX, MKX, and THBS4 were among the genes upregulated in the myogenic differentiation conditions (shown in Figure 3b).

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

Summary:

This study investigates the salt-dependent phase separation of A1-LCD, an intrinsically disordered region of hnRNPA1 implicated in neurodegenerative diseases. The authors employ all-atom molecular dynamics (MD) simulations to elucidate the molecular mechanisms by which salt influences A1-LCD phase separation. Contrary to typical intrinsically disordered protein (IDP) behavior, A1-LCD phase separation is enhanced by NaCl concentrations above 100 mM. The authors identify two direct effects of salt: neutralization of the protein's net charge and bridging between protein chains, both promoting condensation. They also uncover an indirect effect, where high salt concentrations strengthen pi-type interactions by reducing water availability. These findings provide a detailed molecular picture of the complex interplay between electrostatic interactions, ion binding, and hydration in IDP phase separation.

Strengths:

• Novel Insight: The study challenges the prevailing view that salt generally suppresses IDP phase separation, highlighting A1-LCD's unique behavior.<br /> • Rigorous Methodology: The authors utilize all-atom MD simulations, a powerful computational tool, to investigate the molecular details of salt-protein interactions.<br /> • Comprehensive Analysis: The study systematically explores a wide range of salt concentrations, revealing a nuanced picture of salt effects on phase separation.<br /> • Clear Presentation: The manuscript is well-written and logically structured, making the findings accessible to a broad audience.

Weaknesses:

• Limited Scope: The study focuses solely on the truncated A1-LCD, omitting simulations of the full-length protein. This limitation reduces the study's comparative value, as the authors note that the full-length protein exhibits typical salt-dependent behavior. A comparative analysis would strengthen the manuscript's conclusions and broaden its impact.

Overall, this manuscript represents a significant contribution to the field of IDP phase separation. The authors' findings provide valuable insights into the molecular mechanisms by which salt modulates this process, with potential implications for understanding and treating neurodegenerative diseases. While the study is well-conducted and clearly presented, further research is needed to validate the findings and explore their broader applicability.

eLife assessment

In this potentially important study, the authors conducted atomistic simulations to probe the salt-dependent phase separation of the low-complexity domain of hnRN-PA1 (A1-LCD). The authors have identified both direct and indirect mechanisms of salt modulation, provided explanations for four distinct classes of salt dependence, and proposed a model for predicting protein properties from amino acid composition. There is a range of opinions regarding the strength of evidence, with some considering the evidence as incomplete due to the limitations in the length and complexity of the atomistic MD simulations. The work should be put into a better context in relation to previous studies of salt effects on protein phase separation.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

Summary:

The authors examined the salt-dependent phase separation of the low-complexity domain of hnRN-PA1 (A1-LCD). Using all-atom molecular dynamics simulations, they identified four distinct classes of salt dependence in the phase separation of intrinsically disordered proteins (IDPs), which can be predicted based on their amino acid composition. However, the simulations and analysis, in their current form, are inadequate and incomplete.

Strengths:

The authors attempt to unravel the mechanistic insights into the interplay between salt and protein phase separation, which is important given the complex behavior of salt effects on this process. Their effort to correlate the influence of salt on the low-complexity domain of hnRNPA1 (A1-LCD) with a range of other proteins known to undergo salt-dependent phase separation is an interesting and valuable topic.

Weaknesses:

(1) The simulations performed are not sufficiently long (Figure 2A) to accurately comment on phase separation behavior. The simulations do not appear to have converged well, indicating that the system has not reached a steady state, rendering the analysis of the trajectories unreliable.

(2) The majority of the data presented shows no significant alteration with changes in salt concentration. However, the authors have based conclusions and made significant comments regarding salt activities. The absence of error bars in the data representation raises questions about its reliability. Additionally, the manuscript lacks sufficient scientific details of the calculations.

(3) In Figures 2B and 2C, the changes in the radius of gyration and the number of contacts do not display significant variations with changes in salt concentration. The change in the radius of gyration with salt concentration is less than 1 Å, and the number of contacts does not change by at least 1. The authors' conclusions based on these minor changes seem unfounded.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

This is an interesting computational study addressing how salt affects the assembly of biomolecular condensates. The simulation data are valuable as they provide a degree of atomistic details regarding how small salt ions modulate interactions among intrinsically disordered proteins with charged residues, namely via Debye-like screening that weakens the effective electrostatic interactions among the polymers, or through bridging interactions that allow interactions between like charges from different polymer chains to become effectively attractive (as illustrated, e.g., by the radial distribution functions in Supplementary Information). However, this manuscript has several shortcomings: (i) Connotations of the manuscript notwithstanding, many of the authors' concepts about salt effects on biomolecular condensates have been put forth by theoretical models, at least back in 2020 and even earlier. Those earlier works afford extensive information such as considerations of salt concentrations inside and outside the condensate (tie-lines). But the authors do not appear to be aware of this body of prior works and therefore missed the opportunity to build on these previous advances and put the present work with its complementary advantages in structural details in the proper context. (ii) There are significant experimental findings regarding salt effects on condensate formation [which have been modeled more recently] that predate the A1-LCD system (ref.19) addressed by the present manuscript. This information should be included, e.g., in Table 1, for sound scholarship and completeness. (iii) The strengths and limitations of the authors' approach vis-à-vis other theoretical approaches should be discussed with some degree of thoroughness (e.g., how the smallness of the authors' simulation system may affect the nature of the "phase transition" and the information that can be gathered regarding salt concentration inside vs. outside the "condensate" etc.). Accordingly, this manuscript should be revised to address the following. In particular, the discussion in the manuscript should be significantly expanded by including references mentioned below as well as other references pertinent to the issues raised.

(1) The ability to use atomistic models to address the questions at hand is a strength of the present work. However, presumably because of the computational cost of such models, the "phase-separated" "condensates" in this manuscript are extremely small (only 8 chains). An inspection of Fig.1 indicates that while the high-salt configuration (snapshot, bottom right) is more compact and droplet-like than the low-salt configuration (top right), it is not clear that the 50 mM NaCl configuration can reasonably correspond to a dilute or homogeneous phase (without phase separation) or just a condensate with a lower protein concentration because the chains are still highly associated. One may argue that they become two droplets touching each other (the chains are not fully dispersed throughout the simulation box, unlike in typical coarse-grained simulations of biomolecular phase separation). While it may not be unfair to argue from this observation that the condensed phase is less stable at low salt, this raises critical questions about the adequacy of the approach as a stand-alone source of theoretical information. Accordingly, an informative discussion of the limitation of the authors' approach and comparisons with results from complementary approaches such as analytical theories and coarse-grained molecular dynamics will be instructive-even imperative, especially since such results exist in the literature (please see below).

(2) The aforementioned limitation is reflected by the authors' choice of using Dmax as a sort of phase-separation order parameter. However, no evidence was shown to indicate that Dmax exhibits a two-state-like distribution expected of phase separation. It is also not clear whether a Dmax value corresponding to the linear dimension of the simulation box was ever encountered in the authors' simulated trajectories such that the chains can be reliably considered to be essentially fully dispersed as would be expected for the dilute phase. Moreover, as the authors have noted in the second paragraph of the Results, the variation of Dmax with simulation time does not show a monotonic rank order with salt concentration. The authors' explanation is equivalent to stipulating that the simulation system has not fully equilibrated, inevitably casting doubt on at least some of the conclusions drawn from the simulation data.

(3) With these limitations, is it realistic to estimate possible differences in salt concentration between the dilute and condensed phases in the present work? These features, including tie-lines, were shown to be amenable to analytical theory and coarse-grained molecular dynamics simulation (please see below).

(4) In the comparison in Fig.2B between experimental and simulated radius of gyration as a function of [NaCl], there is an outlier among the simulated radii of gyration at [NaCl] ~ 250 mM. An explanation should be offered.

(5) The phenomenon of no phase separation at zero and low salt and phase separation at higher salt has been observed for the IDP Caprin1 and several of its mutants [Wong et al., J Am Chem Soc 142, 2471-2489 (2020) [https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/jacs.9b12208], see especially Fig.9 of this reference]. This work should be included in the discussion and added to Table 1.

(6) The authors stated in the Introduction that "A unifying understanding of how salt affects the phase separation of IDPs is still lacking". While it is definitely true that much remains to be learned about salt effects on IDP phase separation, the advances that have already been made regarding salt effects on IDP phase separation is more abundant than that conveyed by this narrative. For instance, an analytical theory termed rG-RPA was put forth in 2020 to provide a uniform (unified) treatment of salt, pH, and sequence-charge-pattern effects on polyampholytes and polyelectrolytes (corresponding to the authors' low net charge and high net charge cases). This theory offers a means to predict salt-IDP tie-lines and a comprehensive account of salt effect on polyelectrolytes resulting in a lack of phase separation at extremely low salt and subsequent salt-enhanced phase separation (similar to the case the authors studied here) and in some cases re-entrant phase separation or dissolution [Lin et al., J Chem Phys 152. 045102 (2020) [https://doi.org/10.1063/1.5139661]]. This work is highly relevant and it already provided a conceptual framework for the authors' atomistic results and subsequent discussion. As such, it should definitely be a part of the authors' discussion.

(7) Bridging interactions by small ions resulting in effective attractive interactions among polyelectrolytes leading to their phase separation have been demonstrated computationally by Orkoulas et al., Phys Rev Lett 90, 048303 (2003) [https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.90.048303]. This result should also be included in the discussion.

(8) More recently, the salt-dependent phase separations of Caprin1, its RtoK variants and phosphorylated variant (see item #5 above) were modeled (and rationalized) quite comprehensively using rG-RPA, field-theoretic simulation, and coarse-grained molecular dynamics [Lin et al., arXiv:2401.04873 [https://arxiv.org/abs/2401.04873]], providing additional data supporting a conceptual perspective put forth in Lin et al. J Chem Phys 2020 (e.g., salt-IDP tie-lines, bridging interactions, re-entrance behaviors etc.) as well as in the authors' current manuscript. It will be very helpful to the readers of eLife to include this preprint in the authors' discussion, perhaps as per the authors' discretion-along the manner in which other preprints are referenced and discussed in the current version of the manuscript.

eLife assessment

This study provides useful in vitro evidence to support a mechanism whereby dyslipidemia could accelerate renal functional decline through the activation of the AT1R/LOX1 complex by oxLDL and AngII. As such, it improves the knowledge regarding the complex interplay between dyslipidemia and renal disease and provides a solid basis for the discovery of novel therapeutic strategies for patients with lipid disorders. The methods, data, and analyses support the presented findings, although the observed variability and need for further in vivo validation require additional research in this key area.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

Summary:

This study demonstrates a key role of oxLDL in enhancing Ang II-induced Gq signaling by promoting the AT1/LOX1 receptor complex formation. Importantly, Gq-mediated calcium influx was only observed in LOX1 and AT1 both expressing cells, and AT1-LOX1 interaction aggravated renal damage and dysfunction under the condition of a high-fat diet with Ang II infusion, so this study indicated a new therapeutic potential of AT1-LOX1 receptor complex in CKD patients with dyslipidemia and hypertension.

Strengths:

This study is very exciting and the work is also very detailed, especially regarding the mechanism of LOX1-AT1 receptor interaction and its impact on oxidative stress, fibrosis, and inflammation.

Weaknesses:

The direct evidence for the interaction between AT1 and LOX1 receptors in cell membrane localization is relatively weak. Here I raise some questions that may further improve the study.

Major points:

(1) The authors hypothesized that in the interaction of AT1/LOX1 receptor complex in response to ox-LDL and AngII, there should be strong evidence of fluorescence detection of colocalization for these two membrane receptors, both in vivo and in vitro. Although the video evidence for AT1 internalization upon complex activation is shown in Figure S1, the more important evidence should be membrane interaction and enhanced signal of intracellular calcium influx.

(2) Co-IP experiment should be provided to prove the AT1/LOX1 receptor interaction in response to ox-LDL and AngII in AT1 and LOX1 both expressing cells but not in AT1 only expressing cells.

(3) The authors mentioned that the Gq signaling-mediated calcium influx may change gene expression and cellular characteristics, including EMT and cell proliferation. They also provided evidence that oxidative stress, fibrosis, and inflammation were all enhanced after activating both receptors and inhibiting Gq was effective in reversing these changes. However, single stimulation with ox-LDL or AngII also has strong effects on ROS production, inflammation, and cell EMT, which has been extensively proved by previous studies. So, how to distinguish the biased effect of LOX1 or AT1r alone or the enhanced effect of receptor conformational changes mediated by their receptor interaction? Is there any better evidence to elucidate this point?

(4) How does the interaction between AT1 and LOX1 affect the RAS system and blood pressure? What about the serum levels of rennin, angiotensin, and aldosterone in ND-fed or HFD-fed mice?

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Individuals with chronic kidney disease often have dyslipidemia, with the latter both a risk factor for atherosclerotic heart disease and a contributor to progressive kidney disease. Prior studies suggest that oxidized LDL (oxLDL) may cause renal injury through the activation of the LOX1 receptor. The authors had previously reported that LOX1 and AT1 interact to form a complex at the cell surface. In this study, the authors hypothesize that oxLDL, in the setting of angiotensin II, is responsible for driving renal injury by inducing a more pronounced conformational change of the AT1 receptor which results in enhanced Gq signaling.

They go about testing the hypothesis in a set of three studies. In the first set, they engineered CHO cell lines to express AT1R alone, LOX1 in combination with AT1R, or LOX1 with an inactive form of AT1R and indirectly evaluated Gq activity using IP1 and calcium activity as read-outs. They assessed activity after treatment with AngII, oxLDL, or both in combination and found that treatment with both agents resulted in the greatest level of activity, which could be effectively blocked by a Gq inhibitor but not a Gi inhibitor nor a downstream Rho kinase inhibitor targeting G12/13 signaling. These results support their hypothesis, though variability in the level of activation was dramatically inconsistent from experiment to experiment, differing by as much as 20-fold. In contrast, within the experiment, differences between the AngII and AngII/oxLDL treatments, while nominally significant and consistent with their hypothesis, generally were only 10-20%. Another example of unexplained variability can be found in Figures 1g-1j. AngII, at a concentration of 10-12, has no effect on calcium flux in one set of studies (Figure 1g, h) yet has induced calcium activity to a level as great as AngII + oxLDL in another (Figure 1i). The inconsistency of results lessens confidence in the significance of these findings. In other studies with the LOX1-CHO line, they tested for conformational change by transducing AT1 biosensors previously shown to respond to AngII and found that one of them in fact showed enhanced BRET in the setting of oxLDL and AngII compared to AngII alone, which was blocked by an antibody to AT1R. The result is supportive of their conclusions. Limiting enthusiasm for these results is the fact that there isn't a good explanation as to why only 1 sensor showed a difference, and the study should have included a non-specific antibody to control for non-specific effects.

The authors then repeated similar studies using publicly available rat kidney epithelial and fibroblast cell lines that have an endogenous expression of AT1R and LOX1. In these studies, oxLDL in combination with AngiI also enhanced Gq signaling, while knocking down either AT1R or LOX1, and treatment with inhibitors of Gq and AT1R blocked the effects. Like the prior set of studies, however, the effects are very modest and there was significant inter-experimental variability, reducing confidence in the significance of the findings. The authors then tested for evidence that the enhanced Gq signaling could result in renal injury by comparing qPCR results for target genes. While the results show some changes, their significance is difficult to assess. A more global assessment of gene expression patterns would have been more appropriate. In parallel with the transcriptional studies, they tested for evidence of epithelial-mesenchymal transition (EMT) using a single protein marker (alpha-smooth muscle actin) and found that its expression increased significantly in cells treated with oxLDL and AngII, which was blocked by inhibition of Gq inhibition and AT1R. While the data are sound, their significance is also unclear since EMT is a highly controversial cell culture phenomenon. Compelling in vivo studies have shown that most if not all fibroblasts in the kidney are derived from interstitial cells and not a product of EMT. In the last set of studies using these cell lines, the authors examined the effects of AngII and oxLDL on cell proliferation as assayed using BrdU. These results are puzzling---while the two agents together enhanced proliferation which was effectively blocked by an inhibitor to either AT1R or Gq, silencing of LOX1 had no effect.

The final set of studies looked to test the hypothesis in mice by treating WT and Lox1-KO mice with different doses of AngII and either a normal or high-fat diet (to induce oxLDL formation). The authors found that the combination of high dose AngII and a high-fat diet (HFD) increased markers of renal injury (urinary 8-ohdg and urine albumin) in normal mice compared to mice treated with just AngII or HFD alone, which was blunted in Lox1-KO mice). These results are consistent with their hypothesis. However, there are other aspects of these studies that are either inconsistent or complicating factors that limit the strength of the conclusions. For example, Lox1- KO had no effect on renal injury marker expression in mice treated with low-dose AngII and HFD. It also should be noted that Lox1-KO mice had a lower BP response to AngII, which could have reduced renal injury independent of any effects mediated by the AT1R/LOX1 interaction. Another confounding factor was the significant effect the HFD diet had on body weight. While the groups did not differ based on AngII treatment status, the HFD consistently was associated with lower total body weight, which is unexplained. Next, the authors sought to find more direct evidence of renal injury using qPCR of candidate genes and renal histology. The transcriptional results are difficult to interpret; moreover, there were no significant histologic differences between groups. They conclude the study by showing the pattern of expression of LOX1 and AT1R in the kidney by immunofluorescence and conclude that the proteins overlap in renal tubules and are absent from the glomerulus. Unfortunately, they did not co-stain with any other markers to identify the specific cell types. However, these results are inconsistent with other studies that show AT1R is highly expressed in mesangial cells, renal interstitial cells, near the vascular pole, JG cells, and proximal tubules but generally absent from most other renal tubule segments.

In sum, this study tackles an important clinical issue and provides some in vitro evidence to support a mechanism whereby dyslipidemia could accelerate renal functional decline through activation of the AT1R/LOX1 complex by oxLDL and AngII.

However, a very high degree of variability in the results, modest within-experiment differences, some internal inconsistencies that aren't explained, and the lack of compelling and strongly supportive in vivo results suggest this is still more a hypothesis than an established likely mechanism.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

This manuscript offers significant insights into the impact of maternal obesity on oocyte methylation and its transgenerational effects. The study employs comprehensive methodologies, including transgenerational breeding experiments, whole genome bisulfite sequencing, and metabolomics analysis, to explore how high-fat diet (HFD)-induced obesity alters genomic methylation in oocytes and how these changes are inherited by subsequent generations. The findings suggest that maternal obesity induces hyper-methylation in oocytes, which is partly transmitted to F1 and F2 oocytes and livers, potentially contributing to metabolic disorders in offspring. Notably, the study identifies melatonin as a key regulator of this hyper-methylation process, mediated through the cAMP/PKA/CREB pathway.

Strengths:

The study employs comprehensive methodologies, including transgenerational breeding experiments, whole genome bisulfite sequencing, and metabolomics analysis, and provides convincing data.

Weaknesses:

The description in the results section is somewhat verbose. This section (lines 126~227) utilized transgenerational breeding experiments and methylation analysis to demonstrate that maternal obesity-induced alterations in oocyte methylation (including hyper-DMRs and hypo-DMRs) can be partially transmitted to F1 and F2 oocytes and livers. The authors should consider condensing and revising this section for clarity and brevity.

There is a contradiction with Reference 3, but the discrepancy is not discussed. In this study, the authors observed an increase in global methylation in oocytes from HFD mice, whereas Reference 3 indicates Stella insufficiency in oocytes from HFD mice. This Stella insufficiency should lead to decreased methylation (Reference 33). There should be a discussion of how this discrepancy can be reconciled with the authors' findings.

eLife assessment

This manuscript reports important findings on the impact of maternal obesity on oocyte methylation and its transgenerational effects. The evidence presented to substantiate the major claims appears incomplete. This study would be of interest to biologists in the fields of epigenetics and metabolism.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

With socioeconomic development, more and more people are obese which is an important reason for sub-fertility and infertility. Maternal obesity reduces oocyte quality which may be a reason for the high risk of metabolic diseases for offspring in adulthood. Yet the underlying mechanisms are not well elucidated. Here the authors examined the effects of maternal obesity on oocyte methylation. Hyper-methylation in oocytes was reported by the authors, and the altered methylation in oocytes may be partially transmitted to F2. The authors further explored the association between the metabolome of serum and the altered methylation in oocytes. The authors identified decreased melatonin. Melatonin is involved in regulating the hyper-methylation of high-fat diet (HFD) oocytes, via increasing the expression of DNMTs which is mediated by the cAMP/PKA/CREB pathway.

Strengths:

This study is interesting and should have significant implications for the understanding of the transgenerational inheritance of GDM in humans.

Weaknesses:

The link between altered DNA methylation and offspring metabolic disorders is not well elucidated; how the altered DNA methylation in oocytes escapes reprogramming in transgenerational inheritance is also unclear.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

Summary:

Maternal obesity is a health problem for both pregnant women and their offspring. Previous works including work from this group have shown significant DNA methylation changes for offspring of obese pregnancies in mice. In this manuscript, Chao et al digested the potential mechanisms behind the DNA methylation changes. The major observations of the work include transgenerational DNA methylation changes in offspring of maternal obesity, and metabolites such as methionine and melatonin correlated with the above epigenetic changes. Exogenous melatonin treatment could reverse the effects of obesity. The authors further hypothesized that the linkage may be mediated by the cAMP/PKA/CREB pathway to regulate the expression of DNMTs.

Strengths:

The transgenerational change of DNA methylation following HFD is of great interest for future research to follow. The metabolic treatment that could change the DNA methylation in oocytes is also interesting and has potential relevance to future clinical practice.

Weaknesses:

The HFD oocytes have more 5mC signal based on staining and sequencing (Fig 1A-1F). However, the authors also identified almost equal numbers of hyper- and hypo-DMRs, which raises questions regarding where these hypo-DMRs were located and how to interpret their behaviors and functions. These questions are also critical to address in the following mechanistic dissections as the metabolic treatments may also induce bi-directional changes of DNA methylation. The authors should carefully assess these conflicts to make the conclusions solid.

The transgenerational epigenetic modifications are controversial. Even for F0 offspring under maternal obesity, there were different observations compared to this work (Hou, YJ., et al. Sci Rep, 2016). The authors should discuss the inconsistencies with previous works.

In addition to the above inconsistencies, the DNA methylation analysis in this work was not carefully evaluated. Several previous works were evaluating the DNA methylation in mice oocytes, which showed global methylation levels of around 50% (Shirane K, et al. PLoS Genet, 2013; Wang L., et al, Cell, 2014). In Figure 1E, the overall methylation level is about 23% in control, which is significantly different from previous works. The authors should provide more details regarding the WGBS procedure, including but not limited to sequencing coverage, bisulfite conversion rate, etc.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

This study tests for dissociable neural representations of an observed action's kinematics vs. its physical effect in the world. Overall, it is a thoughtfully conducted study that convincingly shows that representations of action effects are more prominent in the anterior inferior parietal lobe (aIPL) than the superior parietal lobe (SPL), and vice versa for the representation of the observed body movement itself. The findings make a fundamental contribution to our understanding of the neural mechanisms of goal-directed action recognition, but there are a couple of caveats to the interpretation of the results that are worth noting:

(1) Both a strength of this study and ultimately a challenge for its interpretation is the fact that the animations are so different in their visual content than the other three categories of stimuli. On one hand, as highlighted in the paper, it allows for a test of action effects that is independent of specific motion patterns and object identities. On the other hand, the consequence is also that Action-PLD cross-decoding is generally better than Action-Anim cross-decoding across the board (Figure 3A) - not surprising because the spatiotemporal structure is quite different between the actions and the animations. This pattern of results makes it difficult to interpret a direct comparison of the two conditions within a given ROI. For example, it would have strengthened the argument of the paper to show that Action-Anim decoding was better than Action-PLD decoding in aIPL; this result was not obtained, but that could simply be because the Action and PLD conditions are more visually similar to each other in a number of ways that influence decoding. Still, looking WITHIN each of the Action-Anim and Action-PLD conditions yields clear evidence for the main conclusion of the study.

(2) The second set of analyses in the paper, shown in Figure 4, follows from the notion that inferring action effects from body movements alone (i.e., when the object is unseen) is easier via pantomimes than with PLD stick figures. That makes sense, but it doesn't necessarily imply that the richness of the inferred action effect is the only or main difference between these conditions. There is more visual information overall in the pantomime case. So, although it's likely true that observers can more vividly infer action effects from pantomimes vs stick figures, it's not a given that contrasting these two conditions is an effective way to isolate inferred action effects. The results in Figure 4 are therefore intriguing but do not unequivocally establish that aIPL is representing inferred rather than observed action effects.

eLife assessment

In an important fMRI study with an elegant experimental design and rigorous cross-decoding analyses, this work shows a solid dissociation between two parietal regions in visually processing actions. Specifically, aIPL is found to be sensitive to the causal effects of observed actions, while SPL is sensitive to the patterns of body motion involved in those actions. Additional analysis and explanation would help to determine the strength of evidence and the mechanistic underpinnings would benefit from closer consideration. Nevertheless, the work will be of broad interest to cognitive neuroscientists, particularly vision and action researchers.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

Summary:

The authors report a study aimed at understanding the brain's representations of viewed actions, with a particular aim to distinguish regions that encode observed body movements, from those that encode the effects of actions on objects. They adopt a cross-decoding multivariate fMRI approach, scanning adult observers who viewed full-cue actions, pantomimes of those actions, minimal skeletal depictions of those actions, and abstract animations that captured analogous effects to those actions. Decoding across different pairs of these actions allowed the authors to pull out the contributions of different action features in a given region's representation. The main hypothesis, which was largely confirmed, was that the superior parietal lobe (SPL) more strongly encodes movements of the body, whereas the anterior inferior parietal lobe (aIPL) codes for action effects of outcomes. Specifically, region of interest analyses showed dissociations in the successful cross-decoding of action category across full-cue and skeletal or abstract depictions. Their analyses also highlight the importance of the lateral occipito-temporal cortex (LOTC) in coding action effects. They also find some preliminary evidence about the organisation of action kinds in the regions examined.

Strengths:

The paper is well-written, and it addresses a topic of emerging interest where social vision and intuitive physics intersect. The use of cross-decoding to examine actions and their effects across four different stimulus formats is a strength of the study. Likewise, the a priori identification of regions of interest (supplemented by additional full-brain analyses) is a strength.

Weaknesses:

I found that the main limitation of the article was in the underpinning theoretical reasoning. The authors appeal to the idea of "action effect structures (AES)", as an abstract representation of the consequences of an action that does not specify (as I understand it) the exact means by which that effect is caused, nor the specific objects involved. This concept has some face validity, but it is not developed very fully in the paper, rather simply asserted. The authors make the claim that "The identification of action effect structure representations in aIPL has implications for theories of action understanding" but it would have been nice to hear more about what those theoretical implications are. More generally, I was not very clear on the direction of the claim here. Is there independent evidence for AES (if so, what is it?) and this study tests the following prediction, that AES should be associated with a specific brain region that does not also code other action properties such as body movements? Or, is the idea that this finding -- that there is a brain region that is sensitive to outcomes more than movements -- is the key new evidence for AES?

On a more specific but still important point, I was not always clear that the significant, but numerically rather small, decoding effects are sufficient to support strong claims about what is encoded or represented in a region. This concern of course applies to many multivariate decoding neuroimaging studies. In this instance, I wondered specifically whether the decoding effects necessarily reflected fully five-way distinction amongst the action kinds, or instead (for example) a significantly different pattern evoked by one action compared to all of the other four (which in turn might be similar). This concern is partly increased by the confusion matrices that are presented in the supplementary materials, which don't necessarily convey a strong classification amongst action kinds. The cluster analyses are interesting and appear to be somewhat regular over the different regions, which helps. However: it is hard to assess these findings statistically, and it may be that similar clusters would be found in early visual areas too.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Summary:

This study uses an elegant design, using cross-decoding of multivariate fMRI patterns across different types of stimuli, to convincingly show a functional dissociation between two sub-regions of the parietal cortex, the anterior inferior parietal lobe (aIPL) and superior parietal lobe (SPL) in visually processing actions. Specifically, aIPL is found to be sensitive to the causal effects of observed actions (e.g. whether an action causes an object to compress or to break into two parts), and SPL to the motion patterns of the body in executing those actions.

To show this, the authors assess how well linear classifiers trained to distinguish fMRI patterns of response to actions in one stimulus type can generalize to another stimulus type. They choose stimulus types that abstract away specific dimensions of interest. To reveal sensitivity to the causal effects of actions, regardless of low-level details or motion patterns, they use abstract animations that depict a particular kind of object manipulation: e.g. breaking, hitting, or squashing an object. To reveal sensitivity to motion patterns, independently of causal effects on objects, they use point-light displays (PLDs) of figures performing the same actions. Finally, full videos of actors performing actions are used as the stimuli providing the most complete, and naturalistic information. Pantomime videos, with actors mimicking the execution of an action without visible objects, are used as an intermediate condition providing more cues than PLDs but less than real action videos (e.g. the hands are visible, unlike in PLDs, but the object is absent and has to be inferred). By training classifiers on animations, and testing their generalization to full-action videos, the classifiers' sensitivity to the causal effect of actions, independently of visual appearance, can be assessed. By training them on PLDs and testing them on videos, their sensitivity to motion patterns, independent of the causal effect of actions, can be assessed, as PLDs contain no information about an action's effect on objects.

These analyses reveal that aIPL can generalize between animations and videos, indicating that it is sensitive to action effects. Conversely, SPL is found to generalize between PLDs and videos, showing that it is more sensitive to motion patterns. A searchlight analysis confirms this pattern of results, particularly showing that action-animation decoding is specific to right aIPL, and revealing an additional cluster in LOTC, which is included in subsequent analyses. Action-PLD decoding is more widespread across the whole action observation network.

This study provides a valuable contribution to the understanding of functional specialization in the action observation network. It uses an original and robust experimental design to provide convincing evidence that understanding the causal effects of actions is a meaningful component of visual action processing and that it is specifically localized in aIPL and LOTC.

Strengths:

The authors cleverly managed to isolate specific aspects of real-world actions (causal effects, motion patterns) in an elegant experimental design, and by testing generalization across different stimulus types rather than within-category decoding performance, they show results that are convincing and readily interpretable. Moreover, they clearly took great care to eliminate potential confounds in their experimental design (for example, by carefully ordering scanning sessions by increasing realism, such that the participants could not associate animation with the corresponding real-world action), and to increase stimulus diversity for different stimulus types. They also carefully examine their own analysis pipeline, and transparently expose it to the reader (for example, by showing asymmetries across decoding directions in Figure S3). Overall, this is an extremely careful and robust paper.

Weaknesses:

I list several ways in which the paper could be improved below. More than 'weaknesses', these are either ambiguities in the exact claims made, or points that could be strengthened by additional analyses. I don't believe any of the claims or analyses presented in the paper show any strong weaknesses, problematic confounds, or anything that requires revising the claims substantially.

(1) Functional specialization claims: throughout the paper, it is not clear what the exact claims of functional specialization are. While, as can be seen in Figure 3A, the difference between action-animation cross-decoding is significantly higher in aIPL, decoding performance is also above chance in right SPL, although this is not a strong effect. More importantly, action-PLD cross-decoding is robustly above chance in both right and left aIPL, implying that this region is sensitive to motion patterns as well as causal effects. I am not questioning that the difference between the two ROIs exists - that is very convincingly shown. But sentences such as "distinct neural systems for the processing of observed body movements in SPL and the effect they induce in aIPL" (lines 111-112, Introduction) and "aIPL encodes abstract representations of action effect structures independently of motion and object identity" (lines 127-128, Introduction) do not seem fully justified when action-PLD cross-decoding is overall stronger than action-animation cross-decoding in aIPL. Is the claim, then, that in addition to being sensitive to motion patterns, aIPL contains a neural code for abstracted causal effects, e.g. involving a separate neural subpopulation or a different coding scheme? Moreover, if sensitivity to motion patterns is not specific to SPL, but can be found in a broad network of areas (including aIPL itself), can it really be claimed that this area plays a specific role, similar to the specific role of aIPL in encoding causal effects? There is indeed, as can be seen in Figure 3A, a difference between action-PLD decoding in SPL and aIPL, but based on the searchlight map shown in Figure 3B I would guess that a similar difference would be found by comparing aIPL to several other regions. The authors should clarify these ambiguities.

(2) Causal effect information in PLDs: the reasoning behind the use of PLD stimuli is to have a condition that isolates motion patterns from the causal effects of actions. However, it is not clear whether PLDs really contain as little information about action effects as claimed. Cross-decoding between animations and PLDs is significant in both aIPL and LOTC, as shown in Figure 4. This indicates that PLDs do contain some information about action effects. This could also be tested behaviorally by asking participants to assign PLDs to the correct action category. In general, disentangling the roles of motion patterns and implied causal effects in driving action-PLD cross-decoding (which is the main dependent variable in the paper) would strengthen the paper's message. For example, it is possible that the strong action-PLD cross-decoding observed in aIPL relies on a substantially different encoding from, say, SPL, an encoding that perhaps reflects causal effects more than motion patterns. One way to exploratively assess this would be to integrate the clustering analysis shown in Figure S1 with a more complete picture, including animation-PLD and action-PLD decoding in aIPL.

(3) Nature of the motion representations: it is not clear what the nature of the putatively motion-driven representation driving action-PLD cross-decoding is. While, as you note in the Introduction, other regions such as the superior temporal sulcus have been extensively studied, with the understanding that they are part of a feedforward network of areas analyzing increasingly complex motion patterns (e.g. Riese & Poggio, Nature Reviews Neuroscience 2003), it doesn't seem like the way in which SPL represents these stimuli are similarly well-understood. While the action-PLD cross-decoding shown here is a convincing additional piece of evidence for a motion-based representation in SPL, an interesting additional analysis would be to compare, for example, RDMs of different actions in this region with explicit computational models. These could be, for example, classic motion energy models inspired by the response characteristics of regions such as V5/MT, which have been shown to predict cortical responses and psychophysical performance both for natural videos (e.g. Nishimoto et al., Current Biology 2011) and PLDs (Casile & Giese Journal of Vision 2005). A similar cross-decoding analysis between videos and PLDs as that conducted on the fMRI patterns could be done on these models' features, obtaining RDMs that could directly be compared with those from SPL. This would be a very informative analysis that could enrich our knowledge of a relatively unexplored region in action recognition. Please note, however, that action recognition is not my field of expertise, so it is possible that there are practical difficulties in conducting such an analysis that I am not aware of. In this case, I kindly ask the authors to explain what these difficulties could be.

(4) Clustering analysis: I found the clustering analysis shown in Figure S1 very clever and informative. However, there are two things that I think the authors should clarify. First, it's not clear whether the three categories of object change were inferred post-hoc from the data or determined beforehand. It is completely fine if these were just inferred post-hoc, I just believe this ambiguity should be clarified explicitly. Second, while action-anim decoding in aIPL and LOTC looks like it is consistently clustered, the clustering of action-PLD decoding in SPL and LOTC looks less reliable. The authors interpret this clustering as corresponding to the manual vs. bimanual distinction, but for example "drink" (a unimanual action) is grouped with "break" and "squash" (bimanual actions) in left SPL and grouped entirely separately from the unimanual and bimanual clusters in left LOTC. Statistically testing the robustness of these clusters would help clarify whether it is the case that action-PLD in SPL and LOTC has no semantically interpretable organizing principle, as might be the case for a representation based entirely on motion pattern, or rather that it is a different organizing principle from action-anim, such as the manual vs. bimanual distinction proposed by the authors. I don't have much experience with statistical testing of clustering analyses, but I think a permutation-based approach, wherein a measure of cluster robustness, such as the Silhouette score, is computed for the clusters found in the data and compared to a null distribution of such measures obtained by permuting the data labels, should be feasible. In a quick literature search, I have found several papers describing similar approaches: e.g. Hennig (2007), "Cluster-wise assessment of cluster stability"; Tibshirani et al. (2001) "Estimating the Number of Clusters in a Data Set Via the Gap Statistic". These are just pointers to potentially useful approaches, the authors are much better qualified to pick the most appropriate and convenient method. However, I do think such a statistical test would strengthen the clustering analysis shown here. With this statistical test, and the more exhaustive exposition of results I suggested in point 2 above (e.g. including animation-PLD and action-PLD decoding in aIPL), I believe the clustering analysis could even be moved to the main text and occupy a more prominent position in the paper.

(5) ROI selection: this is a minor point, related to the method used for assigning voxels to a specific ROI. In the description in the Methods (page 16, lines 514-24), the authors mention using the MNI coordinates of the center locations of Brodmann areas. Does this mean that then they extracted a sphere around this location, or did they use a mask based on the entire Brodmann area? The latter approach is what I'm most familiar with, so if the authors chose to use a sphere instead, could they clarify why? Or, if they did use the entire Brodmann area as a mask, and not just its center coordinates, this should be made clearer in the text.

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

Public Reviews:

Reviewer #1:

Mehrdad Kashefi et al. investigated the availability of planning future reaches while simultaneously controlling the execution of the current reach. Through a series of experiments employing a novel sequential arm reaching paradigm they developed, the authors made several findings: 1) participants demonstrate the capability to plan future reaches in advance, thereby accelerating the execution of the reaching sequence, 2) planning processes for future movements are not independent one another, however, it's not a single chunk neither, 3) Interaction among these planning processes optimizes the current movement for the movement that comes after for it.

The question of this paper is very interesting, and the conclusions of this paper are well supported by data. However, certain aspects require further clarification and expansion.

We thank reviewer one for their evaluation of the work.

(1) The question of this study is whether future reach plans are available during an ongoing reach. In the abstract, the authors summarized that "participants plan at least two future reaches simultaneously with an ongoing reach and that the planning processes of the two future reaches are not independent of one another" and showed the evidence in the next sentences. However the evidence is about the relationship about ongoing reach and future plans but not about in between future plans (Line 52-55). But the last sentence (Line 55-58) mentioned about interactions between future plans only. There are some discrepancies between sentences. Could you make the abstract clear by mentioning interference between 1) ongoing movement and future plans and 2) in between future plans?

We thank Reviewer for their comment. We have separated the longer sentence in the original abstract into two shorter ones. This should clarify that the two pieces of evidence pertain to the interaction of planning processes.

(2) I understood the ongoing reach and future reaches are not independent from the results of first experiment (Figure 2). A target for the current reach is shown at Horizon 1, on the other hand, in Horizon 2, a current and a future target are shown on the screen. Inter-reach-interval was significantly reduced from H1 to H2 (Figure 2). The authors insist that "these results suggest that participants can plan two targets (I guess +1 and +2) ahead of the current reach (I guess +0)". But I think these results suggest that participants can plan a target (+1) ahead of the current reach (+0) because participants could see the current (+0) and a future target (+1) in H2. Could the authors please clarify this point?

We thank Reviewer for raising this point. Our conclusion that “participants can plan two targets ahead of the current reach” is supported by the reduction in Inter-Response Interval (IRI) observed when comparing H2 to H3 in the 75 ms Dwell time condition. Specifically, on average, participants were 16 ms faster when they could see two future targets on the screen (H3) than when they could see only one (H2). To clarify this in the paper, we have revised the wording in line 124 to explicitly state that the conclusion pertains to the 75 ms Dwell time condition. Additionally, we emphasize that the strongest evidence for planning two future targets comes from the experiment shown in Figure 3.

(3) Movement correction for jump of the +1 target takes longer time in H3 compared to H2 (Figure 4). Does this perturbation have any effect on reaching for +2 target? If the +1 jump doesn't affect reaching for +2 target, combined with the result that jump of the +2 target didn't affect the movement time of +1 target (Figure 3C), perturbation (target jump) only affects the movement directly perturbed. Is this implementation correct? If so, does these results support to decline future reaches are planned as motor chunk? I would like to know the author's thoughts about this.

In the experiment presented in Figure 4, once we jumped the +1 target, the reach to that target was changed and participants replaned a corrective movement to the new location of the +1 target. This usually was followed by a longer-than-usual pause at the new location of +1 target for resuming the sequence and finishing the trial. Consequently, in these jump trials, it was impossible to compare the +2 reach to no-jump trials, as the normal sequence of movement was disrupted, and the reach to the +2 target originated from a different starting location. Nevertheless, we addressed the possibility that the two future reaches were planned as a chunk by the analysis shown in figure 5: There we showed that a displacement of the +2 target did not influence the reach to the +1 target, indicating that the movement plans could be updated independently.

(4) Any discussion about Saccade position (Figure 7)?

We thank reviewer 1 for this important comment. The following discussion section is added for the gaze position results.

In our sequence task, participants switched their gaze location only once per reach, suggesting that information about the location of the next target is perceived parafoveally (Figure 7A). This observation aligns with previous studies (Clavagnier et al., 2007; González-Alvarez et al., 2007; Sivak and MacKenzie, 1990) that found participants keep their visual attention on the current sequence item and can perceive the location of spatial targets even when foveal vision is occluded. However, when comparing gaze locations for conditions Horizon >1, we observed that participants systematically biased their gaze location based on the sequence context. The gaze position shifted toward the next target, potentially allowing for more accurate location estimation (Figures 7C-D). Notably, changes in gaze location were observed even in Horizon 2, despite no changes in the curvature of hand movements in this horizon (Figure 6B). This suggests that information about the next target may first be available in the circuitry that controls eye movements and later in the cortical areas that control voluntary upper limb movements. Further control studies are required to investigate this hypothesis.

Reviewer #2:

Summary:

In this work, Kashefi et al. investigate the planning of sequential reaching movements and how the additional information about future reaches affects planning and execution. This study, carried out with human subjects, extends a body of research in sequential movements to ask important questions: How many future reaches can you plan in advance? And how do those future plans interact with each other?

The authors designed several experiments to address these questions, finding that information about future targets makes reaches more efficient in both timing and path curvature. Further, with some clever target jump manipulations, the authors show that plans for a distant future reach can influence plans for a near future reach, suggesting that the planning for multiple future reaches is not independent. Lastly, the authors show that information about future targets is acquired parafoveally--that is, subjects tend to fixate mainly on the target they are about to reach to, acquiring future target information by paying attention to targets outside the fixation point.

The study opens up exciting questions about how this kind of multi-target planning is implemented in the brain. As the authors note in the manuscript, previous work in monkeys showed that preparatory neural activity for a future reaching movement can occur simultaneously with a current reaching movement, but that study was limited to the monkey only knowing about two future targets. It would be quite interesting to see how neural activity partitions preparatory activity for a third future target, given that this study shows that the third target's planning may interact with the second target's planning.

Strengths:

A major strength of this study is that the experiments and analyses are designed to answer complementary questions, which together form a relatively complete picture of how subjects act on future target information. This complete description of a complex behavior will be a boon to future work in understanding the neural control of sequential, compound movements.

We thank the reviewer for their thorough reading of our work.

Weaknesses:

I found no real glaring weaknesses with the paper, though I do wish that there had been some more discussion of what happens to planning with longer dwell times in target. In the later parts of the manuscript, the authors mention that the co-articulation result (where reaches are curved to make future target acquisition more efficient) was less evident for longer dwell times, likely because for longer dwell times, the subject needs to fully stop in target before moving to the next one. This result made me wonder if the future plan interaction effect (tested with the target jumps) would have been affected by dwell time. As far as I can tell, the target jump portion only dealt with the shorter dwell times, but if the authors had longer dwell time data for these experiments, I would appreciate seeing the results and interpretations.

We thank the reviewer for raising this point. In our time (Figure 2) and curvature analysis (Figure 6), we collected data with five levels of the horizon and three levels of dwell time to explore the space of parameters and to see if there is any interaction between dwell time and the horizon of planning the future targets. Apriori, we expected that the full stop in each target imposed by the 400 ms dwell time would be long enough to remove any effect of future targets on how the current move is executed. In line with our initial hypothesis, the systematic curvature of reaches based on the future target was smaller in longer dwell times (Figure 6E). Nevertheless, we observed a significant curvature even in 400 ms dwell time. Based on this observation, we expect running the jump experiments (Figures 4 and 5) in longer dwell times will lead to the same pattern of results but with a smaller effect size since longer dwells break the interdependence of sequence elements (Kalidindi & Crevecoeur, 2023). In the end, for the jump experiments, we limited our experimental conditions to the fastest dwell time (75 ms dwell) since we were conceptually interested in situations where movements in the sequence are maximally dependent on each other.

Beyond this , the authors also mentioned in the results and discussion the idea of "neural resources" being assigned to replan movements, but it's not clear to me what this might actually mean concretely. I wonder if the authors have a toy model in mind for what this kind of resource reassignment could mean. I realize it would likely be quite speculative, but I would greatly appreciate a description or some sort of intuition if possible.

Our use of the term "neural resources" is inspired by classic psychology literature on how cognitive resources such as attention and working memory are divided between multiple sequence components. Early studies on working memory suggest that human participants can retain and manipulate a fixed number of abstract items in working memory (Miller, 1956). However, more recent literature postulates that a specific number of items does not limit working memory, rather, it is limited by a finite attentional resource that is softly allocated to task items.

Here we borrowed the same notion of soft distribution of resources for the preparation of multiple sequence items. A large portion of our observation in this paper and also previous work on sequence production can be explained by a simple model that assumes one central planning resource that is “softly” divided between sequence elements when participants see future items of the sequence (Author Response Image 1). The first sequence element receives the majority of the resources and is planned the most. The rest of the sequence receives the remaining planning resources in an exponentially decaying manner for preparation of the movement during the execution of the ongoing movement. Once the ongoing movement is over, the resource is then transferred to the next sequence item and this process is repeated until the sequence is over. Assignment of planning resources to future items explains why participants are faster when seeing future items (Figure 2). But this comes with a cost – if the ongoing movement is perturbed, the replanning process is delayed since some of the resources are occupied by future planning (Figure 4). This naturally leads to the question of how this resource allocation is implemented in neural tissue. To address this, we are conducting the same sequence task with the horizon in non-human primates (NHPs), and the investigation of these neural implementation questions will be the focus of future studies.

Author response image 1.

Basic diagram showing a soft distribution of a limited planning resource. The diagram shows a Horizon 3 condition in which two future reaches (+1 and +2) are planned while executing a movement (+0). The majority of resources is assigned to the execution of the ongoing movement while the reset is distributed for planning future movements. Once the movement is over, the chain of preparation and execution moves forward.

Recommendations for the author:

Reviewer #1

We thank reviewer one for these comments regarding the clarity and consistency of figures and terminology.

(1) Figure 3. Are "+1 Move" in Fig. 3B and "+ 1 Movement" in Fig. 3C as same as "E + 1" in Fig. 3A? Also does "Dwell" in Fig. 3B mean same as "+1 Dwell" in Fig. 3C? Consistent terminology would help readers to understand the figure.

“+1 Move” in Figure 3B is the same as +1 movement in Figure 3C. “Dwell” in Figure 3B is the same as +1 Dwell in Figure 3C. We changed the figure for more consistency.

(2) Figure 3. A type in the second last line in the legend, "pre-jump target for no-jump and jump and condition". The second "and" isn't necessary.

The typo is corrected. Thank you.

(3) Figure 4C. Is "Movement time" equivalent with "E + 1"?

“Movement time” is equivalent to E+1 only in no-jump conditions. When the jump occurs,

Movement time contains all the

(4) Figure 6B. Is the gray circle in between the graph and target positions there by mistake?

We fixed this typo. Thank you.

(5) Figure 6E. It's hard to distinguish H2-H5 from the color differences.

We changed the H5 to full white with a black stroke to improve the contrast. Thank you.

(6) Figure 7A. Blue dots are almost invisible.

We added a black stroke to blue circles for more visibility. Thank you.

Reviewer #2

I found this manuscript to be engaging and well written--many of the questions I had while reading were answered promptly in the next section. As such, my comments are mostly minor and primarily geared towards improving clarity in the manuscript.

(1) One major recurring confusion I had while reading the manuscript was how to think about H1, H2, and H3. It was clearly explained in the text, and the explanations of the results were generally clear once I read through it all, but I found it strangely confusing at times when trying to interpret the figures for myself (e.g., in H2, 2 targets are on screen, but the second target can only be planned during the reach toward the first target). This confusion may just be me reading the manuscript over two days, but I wonder if it could be made clearer with some semantic iconography associated with each horizon added to the later figures alongside the H labels. As one option, perhaps the planning timeline part of Fig 1D could be simplified and shrunk down to make an icon for each horizon that clearly shows when planning overlaps for each horizon.

(Please see the response to point #2 below)

(2) Regarding Fig 1D: I like this figure, but it's unclear to me how the exact preparation and execution times are determined. Is this more of a general schematic of overlaps, or is there specific information about timing in here?

We thank reviewer 2 for their important feedback. The role of Figure 1D was to summarize the timing of the experiments for different horizons. That is, to clarify the relative timing of the targets appearing on the screen (shown with a small circle above the horizontal line) and targets being captured by participants (the ticks and their associated number on the line). Execution is shown as the time interval that the hand is moving between the targets and planning is the potential planning time for participants from the target appearing on the screen until initiation of the reach to that target. We added the relevant parts of Figure 1D to the subplots for each subsequent experiment, to summarize the timing of other experiments and their analyses. For the experiments with target jump, a small vertical arrow shows the time of the target jump relative to other events.

However, this figure will be less useful, if the connection between the timing dots and ticks is not communicated. We agree that in the original manuscript, this important figure was only briefly explained in the caption of Figure 1. We expanded the explanation in the caption of Figure 1 and referenced the dots and ticks in the main text.

(3) Fig 6B - for some reason I got confused here: I thought the central target in this figure was the start target, and it took me embarrassingly long to figure out that the green target was the start target. This is likely because I'm used to seeing center-out behavioral figures. Incidentally, I wasn't confused by 7c (in fact, seeing 7c is what made me understand 6b), so maybe the solution is to clearly mark a directionality to the reach trajectories, or to point an arrow at the green target like in previous figures. Also, the bottom left gray target in the figure blends into the graph on the left--I didn't notice it until rereading. Because there's white space between that target and the green one, it might be good to introduce some white space to separate the graph from the targets more. The target arrangement makes more sense in panel C, but by the time I got there, I had already been a bit confused.

Thanks for raising this point. As shown in Figure 6C, we used the reach to the +1 target for the curvature analysis. The confusion about Figure 6B is probably due to continuing the reach trajectories after the +1 target. That also explains why Figure 7C seemed more straightforward. To solve this issue we modified Figure 6B such that the reaches are shown with full opacity right until the +1 target and then shown with more transparency. We believe this change focuses the reader's attention to the reach initiated from the +0 target to the +1 target.

As for the gray target in Figure 6B, we originally had the gray target as it is a potential start location for the reach to the +0 target, and for having similar visuals between the plots. The gray target is now removed from Figure 6B.

(4) Line 253 - I'm not sure I understand the advantage over simple averaging that the authors mention here--would be nice to get a bit more intuition.

Thanks for raising this point. We used a two-factor model in our analysis, with each factor representing the angle of the last and next target, respectively. Both factors had five levels: -120, -60, 0, 60, and 120 degrees relative to the +1 reach. In a balanced two-factor design, where each combination of factor levels has an equal number of trials, using a linear model and simple averaging would yield equivalent results. However, when the number of trials for the combinations of the two factors is unbalanced, simple averaging can lead to misleading differences in the levels of the second factor. Additionally, the linear model allows us to investigate potential interactions between the two factors, which is not possible with simple averaging.

(5) Fig 7a - I would have liked to see the traces labeled in figure (i.e. hand trajectory vs. eye trajectory)

Hand and eye trajectories are now labeled in the figure.

(6) Fig 7c - very minor, but the hexagon of targets is rotated 30 degrees from all previous hexagons shown (also, this hex grid target arrangement can't lead to the trajectory shown in 7a, so it can't be that this was a different experimental grid). I'm guessing this was a simple oversight.

We used the same grid in the eye-tracking experiment. The targets are to visually match the previous plots. Thank you for raising this point.

Reference

Clavagnier, S., Prado, J., Kennedy, H., & Perenin, M.-T. (2007). How humans reach: distinct cortical systems for central and peripheral vision. The Neuroscientist: A Review Journal Bringing Neurobiology, Neurology and Psychiatry, 13(1), 22–27.

González-Alvarez, C., Subramanian, A., & Pardhan, S. (2007). Reaching and grasping with restricted peripheral vision. Ophthalmic & Physiological Optics: The Journal of the British College of Ophthalmic Opticians , 27(3), 265–274.

Kalidindi, H. T., & Crevecoeur, F. (2023). Task dependent coarticulation of movement sequences (p.2023.12.15.571847). https://doi.org/10.1101/2023.12.15.571847

Miller, G. A. (1956). The magical number seven plus or minus two: some limits on our capacity for processing information. Psychological Review, 63(2), 81–97.

Sivak, B., & MacKenzie, C. L. (1990). Integration of visual information and motor output in reaching and grasping: the contributions of peripheral and central vision. Neuropsychologia, 28(10), 1095–1116.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Summary:

This work by Grogan and colleagues aimed to translate animal studies showing that acetylcholine plays a role in motivation by modulating the effects of dopamine on motivation. They tested this hypothesis with a placebo-controlled pharmacological study administering a muscarinic antagonist (trihexyphenidyl; THP) to a sample of 20 adult men performing an incentivized saccade task while undergoing electroengephalography (EEG). They found that reward increased vigor and reduced reaction times (RTs) and, importantly, these reward effects were attenuated by trihexyphenidyl. High incentives increased preparatory EEG activity (contingent negative variation), and though THP also increased preparatory activity, it also reduced this reward effect on RTs.

Strengths:

The researchers address a timely and potentially clinically relevant question with a within-subject pharmacological intervention and a strong task design. The results highlight the importance of the interplay between dopamine and other neurotransmitter systems in reward sensitivity and even though no Parkinson's patients were included in this study, the results could have consequences for patients with motivational deficits and apathy if validated in the future.

Weaknesses:

The main weakness of the study is the small sample size (N=20) that unfortunately is limited to men only. The generalizability and replicability of the conclusions remain to be assessed in future research with a larger and more diverse sample size and potentially a clinically relevant population. The EEG results do not shape a concrete mechanism of action of the drug on reward sensitivity.

eLife assessment

The authors have reported an important study in which they use a double-blind design to explore pharmacological manipulations in the context of a behavioral task. Despite a relatively small sample size, the findings are solid and motivate future explanations of the mechanism underlying their observations. The findings could be further strengthened by addressing some remaining concerns that relate to preprocessing, statistical details, and possible ocular artifacts.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

Summary:

The authors used a motivated saccade task with distractors to measure response vigor and reaction time (RT) in healthy human males under placebo or muscarinic antagonism. They also simultaneously recorded neural activity using EEG with event-related potential (ERP) focused analyses. This study provides evidence that the muscarinic antagonist Trihexyphenidyl (THP) modulates the motivational effects of reward on both saccade velocity and RT, and also increases the distractibility of participants. The study also examined the correlational relationships between reaction time and vigor and manipulations (THP, incentives) with components of the EEG-derived ERPs. While an interesting correlation structure emerged from the analyses relating the ERP biomarkers to behavior, it is unclear how these potentially epiphenomenal biomarkers relate to relevant underlying neurophysiology.

Strengths:

This study is a logical translational extension from preclinical findings of cholinergic modulation of motivation and vigor and the CNV biomarker to a normative human population, utilizing a placebo-controlled, double-blind approach.

While framed in the context of Parkinson's disease where cholinergic medications can be used, the authors do a good job in the discussion describing the limitations in generalizing their findings obtained in a normative and non-age-matched cohort to an aged PD patient population.

The exploratory analyses suggest alternative brain targets and/or ERP components that relate to the behavior and manipulations tested. These will need to be further validated in an adequately powered study. Once validated, the most relevant biomarkers could be assessed in a more clinically relevant population.

Weaknesses:

The relatively weak correlations between the main experimental outcomes provide unclear insight into the neural mechanisms by which the manipulations lead to behavioral manifestations outside the context of the ERP. It would have been interesting to evaluate how other quantifications of the EEG signal through time-frequency analyses relate to the behavioral outcomes and manipulations.

The ERP correlations to relevant behavioral outcomes were not consistent across manipulations demonstrating they are not reliable biomarkers to behavior but do suggest that multiple underlying mechanisms can give rise to the same changes in the ERP-based biomarkers and lead to different behavioral outcomes.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

Summary:

Grogan et al examine a role for muscarinic receptor activation in action vigor in a saccadic system. This work is motivated by a strong literature linking dopamine to vigor, and some animal studies suggesting that ACH might modulate these effects, and is important because patient populations with symptoms related to reduced vigor are prescribed muscarinic antagonists. The authors use a motivated saccade task with distractors to measure the speed and vigor of actions in humans under placebo or muscarinic antagonism. They show that muscarinic antagonism blunts the motivational effects of reward on both saccade velocity and RT, and also modulates the distractibility of participants, in particular by increasing the repulsion of saccades away from distractors. They show that preparatory EEG signals reflect both motivation and drug condition, and make a case that these EEG signals mediate the effects of the drug on behavior.

Strengths:

This manuscript addresses an interesting and timely question and does so using an impressive within-subject pharmacological design and a task well-designed to measure constructs of interest. The authors show clear causal evidence that ACH affects different metrics of saccade generation related to effort expenditure and their modulation by incentive manipulations. The authors link these behavioral effects to motor preparatory signatures, indexed with EEG, that relate to behavioral measures of interest and in at least one case statistically mediate the behavioral effects of ACH antagonism.

Weaknesses:

In full disclosure, I have previously reviewed this manuscript in another journal and the authors have done a considerable amount of work to address my previous concerns. However, I have a few remaining concerns that affect my interpretation of the current manuscript.

Some of the EEG signals (figures 4A&C) have profiles that look like they could have ocular, rather than central nervous, origins. Given that this is an eye movement task, it would be useful if the authors could provide some evidence that these signals are truly related to brain activity and not driven by ocular muscles, either in response to explicit motor effects (ie. Blinks) or in preparation for an upcoming saccade. For other EEG signals, in particular, the ones reported in Figure 3, it would be nice to see what the spatial profiles actually look like - does the scalp topography match that expected for the signal of interest?

A primary weakness of this paper is the sample size - since only 20 participants completed the study. The authors address the sample size in several places and I completely understand the reason for the reduced sample size (study halt due to COVID). That said, they only report the sample size in one place in the methods rather than through degrees of freedom in their statistical tests conducted throughout the results. In part because of this, I am not totally clear on whether the sample size for each analysis is the same - or whether participants were removed for specific analyses (ie. due to poor EEG recordings, for example). Beyond this point, but still related to the sample size, in some cases I worry that results are driven by a single subject. In particular, the interaction effect observed in Figure 1e seems like it would be highly sensitive to the single subject who shows a reverse incentive effect in the drug condition.

There are not sufficient details on the cluster-based permutation testing to understand what the authors did or whether it is reasonable. What channels were included? What metric was computed per cluster? How was null distribution generated?

The authors report that "muscarinic antagonism strengthened the P3a" - but I was unable to see this in the data plots. Perhaps it is because the variability related to individual differences obscures the conditional differences in the plots. In this case, event-related difference signals could be helpful to clarify the results.

For mediation analyses, it would be useful in the results section to have a much more detailed description of the regression results, rather than just reporting things in a binary did/did not mediate sort of way. Furthermore, the methods should also describe how mediation was tested statistically (ie. What is the null distribution that the difference in coefficients with/without moderator is tested against?).

eLife assessment

The study explored the influence of magnesium on phenotypic antibiotic resistance in two Vibrio model bacteria. This research is fundamental for revealing the phenotypic antibiotic resistance mechanism utilized by the specified model bacteria in elevated levels of magnesium. The study produced solid evidence indicating that in high concentrations of magnesium, the efficacy of selected antibiotics was diminished due to decreased biosynthesis of unsaturated fatty acids and PE, along with an increase in the biosynthesis of PG.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

Summary:

In the manuscript entitled "Magnesium modulates phospholipid metabolism to promote bacterial phenotypic resistance to antibiotics", Li et al demonstrated the role of magnesium in promoting phenotypic resistance in V. alginolyticus. Using standard microbiological and metabolomic techniques, the authors have shown the significance of fatty acid biosynthesis pathway behind the resistance mechanism. This study is significant as it sheds light on the role of an exogenous factor in altering membrane composition, polarization, and fluidity which ultimately leads to antimicrobial resistance.

Strengths:

(1) The experiments were carried out methodically and logically.

(2) An adequate number of replicates were used for the experiments.

Weaknesses:

(1) The introduction section needs to be more informative and to the point.

(2) The weakest point of this paper is in the logistics through the results section. The way authors represented the figures and interpreted them in the results section (or the figure legends) does not match. The figures are difficult to interpret and are not at all self-explanatory.

(3) There are too many mislabeling of the figure panels in the main text which makes it difficult to find out which figures the authors are explaining. There should be more explanation on why and how they did the experiments and how the results were interpreted.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Summary:

In this study, the authors aimed to identify if and how magnesium affects the ability of two particular bacteria species to resist the action of antibiotics. In my view, the authors succeeded in their goals and presented a compelling study that will have important implications for the antibiotic resistance research community. Since metals like magnesium are present in all lab media compositions and are present in the host, the data presented in this study certainly will inspire additional research by the community. These could include research into whether other types of metals also induce multi-drug resistance, whether this phenomenon can be observed in other bacterial species, especially pathogenic species that cause clinical disease, and whether the underlying molecular determinants (i.e. enzymes) of metal-induced phenotypic resistance could be new antimicrobial drug targets themselves.

Strengths:

This study's strengths include that the authors used a variety of methodologies, all of which point to a clear effect of exogenous Mg2+ on drug resistance in the targeted species. I also commend the authors for carrying out a comprehensive study, spanning evaluation of whole cell phenotypes, metabolic pathways, genetic manipulation, to enzyme activity level evaluation. The fact that the authors uncovered a molecular mechanism underlying Mg2+-induced phenotypic resistance is particularly important as the key proteins should be studied further.

Weaknesses:

I believe there are weaknesses in the manuscript, however. The authors take for granted that the reader is familiar with all the assays utilized, and do not properly explain some experiments, and thus I highly suggest that the authors add a brief statement in each situation describing the rationale for each selected methodology (more details are in the private review to the authors). The Results section is also quite long and bogs down at times, and I suggest that the authors reduce its length by 10 to 20%. In contrast, the Introduction is sparse and lacks key aspects, for example, there should be mention of the study's main purpose and approaches, plus an introduction to the authors' choice of species and their known drug resistance properties, as well as the drug of choice (balofloxacin). Another notable weakness is that the authors evaluated Mg2+-induced phenotypic resistance only against two closely related species, and thus the generalizability of this mechanism of drug resistance is not known. The paper would be strengthened if the authors could demonstrate this type of phenotypic resistance in at least one more Gram-negative species and at least one Gram-positive species (antimicrobial susceptibility evaluations would suffice), each of which should be pathogenic to humans. Demonstrating magnesium-induced phenotypic drug resistance in the WHO Priority Bacterial Pathogens would be particularly important.

In general, the conclusions drawn by the authors are justified by the data, except for the interpretation of some experiments. Importantly, this paper has discovered new antimicrobial resistance mechanisms and has also pointed to potential new targets for antimicrobials.

Author response:

Public Reviews:

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

Summary:

In the manuscript entitled "Magnesium modulates phospholipid metabolism to promote bacterial phenotypic resistance to antibiotics", Li et al demonstrated the role of magnesium in promoting phenotypic resistance in V. alginolyticus. Using standard microbiological and metabolomic techniques, the authors have shown the significance of fatty acid biosynthesis pathway behind the resistance mechanism. This study is significant as it sheds light on the role of an exogenous factor in altering membrane composition, polarization, and fluidity which ultimately leads to antimicrobial resistance.

Strengths:

(1) The experiments were carried out methodically and logically.

(2) An adequate number of replicates were used for the experiments.

Weaknesses:

(1) The introduction section needs to be more informative and to the point.

(2) The weakest point of this paper is in the logistics through the results section. The way authors represented the figures and interpreted them in the results section (or the figure legends) does not match. The figures are difficult to interpret and are not at all self-explanatory.

(3) There are too many mislabeling of the figure panels in the main text which makes it difficult to find out which figures the authors are explaining. There should be more explanation on why and how they did the experiments and how the results were interpreted.

(1) We would like to extensive revise the introduction to make it more informative than the current version.

(2) We will check the description in the text and labeling in the figures to make it is logic.

(3) We will add the explanation of the experiments to make it clear that why we perform the assays.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Summary:

In this study, the authors aimed to identify if and how magnesium affects the ability of two particular bacteria species to resist the action of antibiotics. In my view, the authors succeeded in their goals and presented a compelling study that will have important implications for the antibiotic resistance research community. Since metals like magnesium are present in all lab media compositions and are present in the host, the data presented in this study certainly will inspire additional research by the community. These could include research into whether other types of metals also induce multi-drug resistance, whether this phenomenon can be observed in other bacterial species, especially pathogenic species that cause clinical disease, and whether the underlying molecular determinants (i.e. enzymes) of metal-induced phenotypic resistance could be new antimicrobial drug targets themselves.

Strengths:

This study's strengths include that the authors used a variety of methodologies, all of which point to a clear effect of exogenous Mg2+ on drug resistance in the targeted species. I also commend the authors for carrying out a comprehensive study, spanning evaluation of whole cell phenotypes, metabolic pathways, genetic manipulation, to enzyme activity level evaluation. The fact that the authors uncovered a molecular mechanism underlying Mg2+-induced phenotypic resistance is particularly important as the key proteins should be studied further.

Weaknesses:

I believe there are weaknesses in the manuscript, however. The authors take for granted that the reader is familiar with all the assays utilized, and do not properly explain some experiments, and thus I highly suggest that the authors add a brief statement in each situation describing the rationale for each selected methodology (more details are in the private review to the authors). The Results section is also quite long and bogs down at times, and I suggest that the authors reduce its length by 10 to 20%. In contrast, the Introduction is sparse and lacks key aspects, for example, there should be mention of the study's main purpose and approaches, plus an introduction to the authors' choice of species and their known drug resistance properties, as well as the drug of choice (balofloxacin). Another notable weakness is that the authors evaluated Mg2+-induced phenotypic resistance only against two closely related species, and thus the generalizability of this mechanism of drug resistance is not known. The paper would be strengthened if the authors could demonstrate this type of phenotypic resistance in at least one more Gram-negative species and at least one Gram-positive species (antimicrobial susceptibility evaluations would suffice), each of which should be pathogenic to humans. Demonstrating magnesium-induced phenotypic drug resistance in the WHO Priority Bacterial Pathogens would be particularly important.

We will add the explanation of the experiments to make it clear that why we perform the assays. And we will revise the introduction and shorten the length of the manuscript. Expanding the bacterial species is very good idea and we will perform such experiment.

eLife assessment

This valuable study demonstrates how proximity labeling with streptavidin can be used to boost fluorescence signals in otherwise hard-to-label regions of cells. The experimental verification of amplification of fluorescence near epitope tags in phase-separated compartments is solid, demonstrating enhanced signal-to-noise compared to immunofluorescence. This study will be of particular interest to those using correlative light and electron microscopy or expansion microscopy when the signal is limiting or inaccessible.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

I feel that the changes to the manuscript have significantly improved it. It's unfortunate that the single biotin/anti-biotin antibodies were not more illuminating but I think the attempts were worthwhile. My only comment is that the rebuttal to the second part of point 3 still does not fully deal with the issue. By marking proximal proteins other than the fusion with biotin, TurboID significantly increases the detectable signal, but it is formally no longer possible to be certain what the biotin is attached to. None of the controls that the authors suggest will actually give you certainty about what you are detecting while imaging. Mass spectrometry will give you an ensemble measurement of all the biotinylated proteins in the cell without being able to relate that back to what you are observing in a specific cellular region when you are imaging. Colocalization with a tagged protein/specific antibody could suggest that a portion of the signal could be attributable to the TurboID-biotin signal, but it could also be a tight binding partner or part of a larger protein complex. PLA assays would have similar issues- some of the protein could be labeled but it will be impossible to show what portion of the signal is attributable to the protein of interest and how much is attributable to other proximal proteins. I think the key thing here is that in this implementation, TurboID allows you to enhance the labeling of protein structures in cells, such as NUPS, but at the expense of certainty about the specific proteins you are labeling. I personally cannot think of a reasonable control that will allow you to avoid this issue. I feel that this point needs to be clearly made if people are going to use this method for signal enhancement, otherwise people may be misled about what they are actually looking at. The method should be useful, but the limitations need to be clear.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

I found the original paper to be of high quality and value. The revisions the authors have made (particularly with respect to the more cautious phraseology concerning the ability to track labelled proteins) are valuable additions. The other responses are well-argued and satisfactory to this reviewer.

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

Public Reviews: 

Reviewer #1 (Public Review): 

Summary: 

In this work, Odenwald and colleagues show that mutant biotin ligases used to perform proximity-dependent biotin identification (TurboID) can be used to amplify signal in fluorescence microscopy and to label phase-separated compartments that are refractory to many immunofluorescence approaches. Using the parasite Trypanosoma brucei, they show that fluorescent methods such as expansion microscopy and CLEM, which require bright signals for optimal detection, benefit from the elevated signal provided by TurboID fusion proteins when coupled with labeled streptavidin. Moreover, they show that phase-separated compartments, where many antibody epitopes are occluded due to limited diffusion and potential sequestration, are labeled reliably with biotin deposited by a TurboID fusion protein that localizes within the compartment. They show successful labeling of the nucleolus, likely phase-separated portions of the nuclear pore, and stress granules. Lastly, they use a panel of nuclear pore-TurboID fusion proteins to map the regions of the T. brucei nuclear pore that appear to be phase-separated by comparing antibody labeling of the protein, which is susceptible to blocking, to the degree of biotin deposition detected by streptavidin, which is not. 

Strengths: 

Overall, this study shows that TurboID labelling and fluorescent streptavidin can be used to boost signal compared to conventional immunofluorescence in a manner similar to tyramide amplification, but without having to use antibodies. TurboID could prove to be a viable general strategy for labeling phase-separated structures in cells, and perhaps as a means of identifying these structures, which could also be useful. 

Weaknesses: 

However, I think that this work would benefit from additional controls to address if the improved detection that is being observed is due to the increased affinity and smaller size of streptavidin/biotin compared to IgGs, or if it has to do with the increased amount of binding epitope (biotin) being deposited compared to the number of available antibody epitopes. I also think that using the biotinylation signal produced by the TurboID fusion to track the location of the fusion protein and/or binding partners in cells comes with significant caveats that are not well addressed here, mostly due to the inability to discern which proteins are contributing to the observed biotin signal. 

To dissect the contributions of the TurboID fusion to elevating signal, anti-biotin antibodies could be used to determine if the abundance of the biotin being deposited by the TurboID is what is increasing detection, or if streptavidin is essential for this.

We agree with the reviewer, that it would be very interesting to distinguish whether the increase in signal comes from the multiple biotinylation sites or from streptavidin being a very good binder, or perhaps from both. However, this question is very hard to answer, as antibodies differ massively in their affinity to the antigen which is further dependent on the respective IF-conditions, and are therefore not directly comparible. Even if anti-biotin gives a better signal then anti-HA, this can be either caused by the increase in antigen-number (more biotin than HA-tag) or by the higher binding affinity, or by a combination of both, thus hard to distinguish. Nevertheless, we have tested monoclonal mouse anti-biotin targeting the (non-phase-separated) NUP158. We found the signal from the biotin-antibody to be much weaker than from anti-HA, indicating that, at least this particular biotin antibody, is not a very good binder in IF. 

Alternatively, HaloTag or CLIP tagging could be used to see if diffusion of a small molecule tag other than biotin can overcome the labeling issue in phase-separated compartments. There are Halo-biotin substrates available that would allow the conjugation of 1 biotin per fusion protein, which would allow the authors to dissect the relative contributions of the high affinity of streptavidin from the increased amount of biotin that the TurboID introduces. 

This is a very good idea, as in this case, the signals are both from streptavidin and are directly comparable. We expressed NUP158 with HaloTag and added PEG-biotin as a Halo ligand. However, PEG-biotin is poorly cell-permeable, and is in general only used on lysates. In trypanosomes, cell permeability is particular restricted, and even Halo-ligands that are considered highly cell-penetrant give only a weak signal. Even after over-night incubation, we could not get any signal with PEG-biotin. Our control, the TMR-ligand 647, gave a weak nuclear pore staining, confirming the correct expression and function of the HaloTag-NUP158.

The idea of using the biotin signal from the TurboID fusion as a means to track the changing localization of the fusion protein or the location of interacting partners is an attractive idea, but the lack of certainty about what proteins are carrying the biotin signal makes it very difficult to make clear statements. For example, in the case of TurboID-PABP2, the appearance of a biotin signal at the cell posterior is proposed to be ALPH1, part of the mRNA decapping complex. However, because we are tracking biotin localization and biotin is being deposited on a variety of proteins, it is not formally possible to say that the posterior signal is ALPH1 or any other part of the decapping complex. For example, the posterior labeling could represent a localization of PABP2 that is not seen without the additional signal intensity provided by the TurboID fusion. There are also many cytoskeletal components present at the cell posterior that could be being biotinylated, not just the decapping complex. Similar arguments can be made for the localization data pertaining to MLP2 and NUP65/75. I would argue that the TurboID labeling allows you to enhance signal on structures, such as the NUPs, and effectively label compartments, but you lack the capacity to know precisely which proteins are being labeled.  

We fully agree with the reviewer, that tracking proteins by streptavidin imaging alone is problematic, because it cannot distinguish, which protein is biotinylated. We therefore used words like “likely”  in the description of the data. However, we still think, it is a valid method, as long as it is confirmed by an orthogonal method. We have added this paragraph to the end of this chapter:

“Importantly, tracking of proteins by streptavidin imaging requires orthogonal controls, as the imaging alone does not provide information about the nature of the biotinylated proteins. These can be proximity ligation assay, mass spectrometry or specific tagging visualisation of protein suspects by fluorescent tags. Once these orthogonal controls are established for a specific tracking, streptavidin imaging is an easy and cheap and highly versatile method to monitor protein interactions in a specific setting.”

Reviewer #2 (Public Review): 

Summary: 

The authors noticed that there was an enhanced ability to detect nuclear pore proteins in trypanosomes using a streptavidin-biotin-based detection approach in comparison to conventional antibody-based detection, and this seemed particularly acute for phase-separated proteins. They explored this in detail for both standard imaging but also expansion microscopy and CLEM, testing resolution, signal strength, and sensitivity. An additional innovative approach exploits the proximity element of biotin labelling to identify where interacting proteins have been as well as where they are. 

Strengths: 

The data is high quality and convincing and will have obvious application, not just in the trypanosome field but also more broadly where proteins are tricky to detect or inaccessible due to phase separation (or some other steric limitations). It will be of wide utility and value in many cell biological studies and is timely due to the focus of interest on phase separation, CLEM, and expansion microscopy. 

Thank you! We are glad you liked it.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review): 

Summary: 

The authors aimed to investigate the effectiveness of streptavidin imaging as an alternative to traditional antibody labeling for visualizing proteins within cellular contexts. They sought to address challenges associated with antibody accessibility and inconsistent localization by comparing the performance of streptavidin imaging with a TurboID-HA tandem tag across various protein localization scenarios, including phase-separated regions. They aimed to assess the reliability, signal enhancement, and potential advantages of streptavidin imaging over antibody labeling techniques. 

Overall, the study provides a convincing argument for the utility of streptavidin imaging in cellular protein visualization. By demonstrating the effectiveness of streptavidin imaging as an alternative to antibody labeling, the study offers a promising solution to issues of accessibility and localization variability. Furthermore, while streptavidin imaging shows significant advantages in signal enhancement and preservation of protein interactions, the authors must consider potential limitations and variations in its application. Factors such as the fact that tagging may sometimes impact protein function, background noise, non-specific binding, and the potential for off-target effects may impact the reliability and interpretation of results. Thus, careful validation and optimization of streptavidin imaging protocols are crucial to ensure reproducibility and accuracy across different experimental setups. 

Strengths: 

- Streptavidin imaging utilizes multiple biotinylation sites on both the target protein and adjacent proteins, resulting in a substantial signal boost. This enhancement is particularly beneficial for several applications with diluted antigens, such as expansion microscopy or correlative light and electron microscopy. 

- This biotinylation process enables the identification and characterization of interacting proteins, allowing for a comprehensive understanding of protein-protein interactions within cellular contexts. 

Weaknesses: 

- One of the key advantages of antibodies is that they label native, endogenous proteins, i.e. without introducing any genetic modifications or exogenously expressed proteins. This is a major difference from the approach in this manuscript, and it is surprising that this limitation is not really mentioned, let alone expanded upon, anywhere in the manuscript. Tagging proteins often impacts their function (if not their localization), and this is also not discussed.

- Given that BioID proximity labeling encompasses not only the protein of interest but also its entire interacting partner history, ensuring accurate localization of the protein of interest poses a challenge. 

- The title of the publication suggests that this imaging technique is widely applicable. However, the authors did not show the ability to track the localization of several distinct proteins on the same sample, which could be an additional factor demonstrating the outperformance of streptavidin imaging compared with antibody labeling. Similarly, the work focuses only on small 2D samples. It would have been interesting to be able to compare this with 3D samples (e.g. cells encapsulated in an extracellular matrix) or to tissues.  

Recommendations for the authors:

To enhance the assessment from 'incomplete' to 'solid', the reviewers recommend that the following major issues be addressed: 

Major issues: 

(1) Anti-biotin antibodies in combination with TurboID labeling should be used to compare the signal/labelling penetrance to streptavidin results. That would show if elevated biotin deposition matters, or if it is really the smaller size, more fluors, and higher affinity of streptavidin that's making the difference. 

We agree with the reviewer, that it would be very interesting to distinguish whether the increase in signal comes from the multiple biotinylation sites or from streptavidin being a very good binder, or perhaps from both, and whether the size matters (IgG versus streptavidin). However, this question is very hard to answer, as antibodies differ massively in their affinity to the antigen. Thus, even if antibiotin would give a better signal then anti-HA, this could be either caused by the increase in antigen-number (more biotin than HA-tag) or by the better binding affinity, or by a combination, and it would not allow to truly answer the question. We have now tested anti-biotin antibodies, also in repsonse to reviewer 1, and got a much poorer signal in comparison to anti-HA or streptavidin.

Please note that we made another attempt using nanobodies to target phase-separated proteins, to see, whether size matters (Fig. 2I). The nanobody did not stain Mex67 at the nuclear pores, but gave a weak nucelolar signal for NOG1, which may suggest that the nanobody can slightly better penetrate than IgG, but it does not rule out that the nanobody simply binds with higher affinity. Reviewer 1 has suggested to use the Halo Tag with PEG-biotin: this would indeed allow to directly compare the streptavidin signal caused by the TurboID with a single biotin added by the Halo tag. Unfortunately, the PEG-biotin does not  penetrate trypanosome cells. In conclusion, we are not aware of a method that would allow to establish why streptavidin but not IgGs can penetrate to phase separated areas. We therefore prefer to not overinterpret our data, but stick to what is supported by the data: “the inability to label phase-separated areas is not restricted to anti-HA but applies to other antibodies”.

(3) Figure 4 A-B. The validity of claiming the correct localization demonstrated by streptavidin imaging comes into question, especially when endogenous fluorescence, via the fusion protein, remains undetectable (as indicated by the yellow arrow at apex). 

In this figure, the streptavidin imaging does NOT show the correct localisation of the bait protein, but it does show proteins from historic interactions that have a distinct localisation to the bait. We had therefore introduced this chapter with the paragraph below, to make sure, the reader is aware of the limitations (which we also see as an opportunity, if properly controlled):

“We found that in most cases, streptavidin labelling faithfully reflects the steady state localisation of a bait protein, e.g., the localisation resembles those observed with immunofluorescence or direct fluorescence imaging of GFP-fusion proteins. For certain bait proteins, this is not the case, for example, if the bait protein or its interactors have a dynamic localisation to distinct compartments, or if interactions are highly transient. It is thus essential to control streptavidin-based de novo localisation data by either antibody labelling (if possible) or by direct fluorescence of fusion-proteins for each new bait protein.”

In particular, on lines 450-460, there's a fundamental issue with the argument put forward here. It is not possible to formally know that the posterior labeling is ALPH1 vs. another part of the decapping complex that was associated with PABP2-Turbo, or if the higher detection capacity of the Turbo-biotin label is uncovering a novel localization of the PABP2. While it is likely that it is ALPH1, it is not possible to rule out other possibilities with this approach. These issues should be discussed here and more generally the possibility of off-target labeling with this approach should be addressed in the discussion. 

We fully agree with the reviewer, that tracking proteins by streptavidin imaging alone is problematic, because it cannot distinguish, which protein is biotinylated. We therefore used words like “likely”  in the description of the data. However, we still think, it is a valid method, as long as it is back-uped by an orthogonal method. We have added this paragraph to the end of this chapter:

“Importantly, tracking of proteins by streptavidin imaging requires orthogonal controls, as the imaging alone does not provide information about the nature of the biotinylated proteins. These can be proximity ligation assay, mass spectrometry or specific tagging visualisation of protein suspects by fluorescent tags. Once these orthogonal controls are established for a specific tracking, streptavidin imaging is an easy and cheap and highly versatile method to monitor protein interactions in a specific setting.”

(4) More discussion and acknowledgment of the general limitations in using tagged proteins are needed to balance the manuscript, especially if the hope is to draw a comparison with antibody labeling, which works on endogenous proteins (not requiring a tag). For example: (a) tagging proteins requires genetic/molecular work ahead of time to engineer the constructs and/or cells if trying to tag endogenous proteins; (b) tagged proteins should technically be validated in rescue experiments to confirm the tag doesn't disrupt function in the cell/tissue/context of interest; and (c) exogenous tagged proteins compete with endogenous untagged proteins, which can complicate the interpretation of data.  

We have added this paragraph to the first paragraph of the discussion part:

“Like many methods that are frequently used in cell- and molecular biology, streptavidin imaging is based on the expression of a genetically engineered fusion protein: it is essential to validate both, function and localisation of the TurboID-HA tagged protein by orthogonal methods. If the fusion protein is non-functional or mis-localised, tagging at the other end may help, but if not, this protein cannot be imaged by streptavidin imaging. Likewise, target organisms not amenable to genetic manipulation, or those with restricted genetic tools,  are not or less suitable for this method.”

Also, we like to point out that for non-mainstream organisms like trypanosomes, antibodies are not commercially available and often genetic manipulation is more time-efficient and cheaper than the production of antiserum against the target protein.

Also, the introduction would ideally be more general in scope and introduce the pros and cons of antibody labeling vs biotin/streptavidin, which are mentioned briefly in the discussion. The fact that the biotin-streptavidin interaction is ~100-fold higher affinity than an IgG binding to its epitope is likely playing a key role in the results here. The difference in size between IgG and streptavidin, the likelihood that the tetrameric streptavidin carries more fluors than a IgG secondary, and the fact that biotin can likely diffuse into phase-separated environments should be clearly stated. The current introduction segues from a previous paper that a more general audience may not be familiar with. 

We have now included this paragraph to the introduction:

“It remains unclear, why streptavidin was able to stain biotinylated proteins within these antibody inaccessible regions, but possible reasons are: (i) tetrameric streptavidin is smaller and more compact than IgGs (60 kDa versus a tandem of two IgGs, each with 150 kDa) (ii) the interaction between streptavidin and biotin is ~100 fold stronger than a typical interaction between antibody and antigen and (iii) streptavidin contains four fluorophores, in contrast to only one per secondary IgG.”

Minor issues: 

The copy numbers of the HA and Ty1 epitope tags vary depending on the construct being used. For example, Ty1 is found as a single copy tag in the TurboID tag, but on the mNeonGreen tag there are 6 copies of the epitope. It makes it hard to know if differences in detection are due to variations in copies of the epitope tags. Line 372-374: can the authors explain why they chose to use nanobodies in this case? It would be great to show the innate mNeonGreen signal in 2K to compare to the Ty1 labeling. The presence of 6 copies of the Ty1 epitope could be essential to the labeling seen here.

We agree with the reviewer, that these data are a bit confusing. We have now removed Figure 3K, as it is the only construct with 6 Ty1 instead of one, and it does not add to the conclusions. (the mNeonsignal is entirely in the nucleolus, as shown by Tryptag). We have also added an explanation why we used nanobodies (“The absence of a nanobody signal rules out that its simply the size of IgGs that prevents the staining of Mex67 at the nuclear pores, as nanobodies are smaller than (tetrameric) streptavidin”). However, as stated above, we prefer not to overinterpret the data, as signals from different antibodies/nanobodies – antigen combinations are not comparable. Important to us was to stress that the absence of signal in phase-separated areas is NOT restricted to the anti-HA antibody, which is clearly supported by the data.

What is the innate streptavidin background labeling look like in cells that are not carrying a TurboID fusion, from the native proteins that are biotinylated? That should be discussed. 

We have now included the controls without the TurboID fusions for trypanosomes and HeLa cells: “Wild type cells of both Trypanosomes and human showed only a very low streptavidin signal, indicating that the signal from naturally biotinylated proteins is neglectable (Figure S8 in supplementary material).”

Line 328-331: This is likely to be dependent on whether or not the protein moves to different localizations within the cell. 

True, we agree, and we have added this paragraph:

“The one exception are very motile proteins that produce a “biotinylation trail” distinct to the steady state localisation; these exceptions, and how they can be exploited to understand protein interactions, are discussed in chapter 4 below. “

Line 304-305: Does biotin supplementation not matter at all? 

No, we never saw any increase in biotinylation when we added extra biotin to trypanosomes. The 0.8 µM biotin concentration in the medium were sufficient.

Line 326-327: Was the addition of biotin checked for enhancement in the case of the mammalian NUP98? I would argue that there is a significant number of puncta in Figure 1D that are either green or magenta, not both. The amount of extranuclear puncta in the HA channel is also difficult to explain. Biotin supplementation to 500 µM was used in mammalian TurboID experiments in the original Nature Biotech paper- perhaps nanomolar levels are too low. 

We now tested HeLa cells with 500 µM Biotin and saw an increase in signal, but also in background; due to the increased background  we conclude that low biotin concentrations are more suitable . We have also repeated the experiment using 4HA tags instead of 1HA, and we found a minor improvement in the antibody signal for NUP88 (while the phase separated NUP54 was still not detectable). We have replaced the images in Figure 1D  (NUP88) and also in Figure 2F (NUP54) with improved images and using 4HA tags. However, we like to note that single nuclear pore resolution is beyond what can be expected of light microscopy.

Line 371: In 2I, I see a signal that looks like the nucleus, similar to the Ty1 labeling in 2G, so I don't think it's accurate to say that that Mex67 was "undetectable". Does the serum work for blotting? 

Thank you, yes, “undetectable” was not the correct phrase here. Mex67 localises to the nuclear pores, to the nuceoplasm and to the nucleolus (GFP-tagging or streptavidin). Antibodies, either to the tag or to the endogenous proteins, fail to detect Mex67 at the nuclear pores and also don’t show any particular enrichment in the nucleolus. They do, however, detect Mex67 in the (not-phase-separated) area of the nucleoplasm. We have changed the text to make this clearer. The Mex67 antiserum works well on a western blot (see for example: Pozzi, B., Naguleswaran, A., Florini, F., Rezaei, Z. & Roditi, I. The RNA export factor TbMex67 connects transcription and RNA export in Trypanosoma brucei and sets boundaries for RNA polymerase I. Nucleic Acids Res. 51, 5177–5192 (2023))

Line 477: "lacked" should be "lagged".

Thank you, corrected.

Line 468-481: My previous argument holds here - how do you know that the difference in detection here is just a matter of much higher affinity/quantity of binding partner for the avidin?

See answer to the second point of (3), above.

483-491: Same issue - without certainty about what the biotin is on, this argument is difficult to make. 

See answer to the second point of (3), above.

Line 530: "bone-fine" should be "bonafide"

Thank you, corrected.

Line 602: biotin/streptavidin labeling has been used for expansion microscopy previously (Sun, Nature Biotech 2021; PMID: 33288959). 

Thank you, we had overlooked this! We have now included this reference and describe the differences to our approach clearer in the discussion part:

“Fluorescent streptavidin has been previously used in expansion microscopy to detect biotin residues in target proteins produced by click chemistry (Sun et al., 2021). However, to the best of our knowledge, this is the first report that employs fluorescent streptavidin as a signal enhancer in expansion microscopy and CLEM, by combining it with multiple biotinylation sites added by a biotin ligase. Importantly, for both CLEM and expansion, streptavidin imaging is the only alternative approach to immunofluorescence, as denaturing conditions associated with these methods rule out direct imaging of fluorescent tags.”

eLife assessment

This study reports the adhesion G-protein-coupled receptor A3 (ADGRA3) as a possible target for activating adaptive thermogenesis in white and brown adipose tissue. The study provides valuable insights for scientists who study metabolism, obesity, and adipose tissue biology. Meanwhile, the experimental evidence supporting the claim is incomplete, and more rigorous approaches are needed to demonstrate the relevance of this receptor in adipose tissue biology.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

Summary:

This article identifies ADGR3 as a candidate GPCR for mediating beige fat development. The authors use human expression data from the Human protein atlas and Gtex databases and combine this with experiments performed in mice and a murine cell line. They refer to a GPCR bioactivity screening tool PRESTO-Salsa, with which it was found that Hesperetin activates ADGR3. From their experiments, authors conclude that Hesperetin activates ADGR3, inducing a Gs-PKA-CREB axis resulting in adipose thermogenesis.

Strengths:

The authors analyze human data from public databases and perform functional studies in mouse models. They identify a new GPCR with a role in the thermogenic activation of adipocytes.

Weaknesses:

(1) Selection of ADGRA3 as a candidate GPCR relevant for mediating beiging in humans:

The authors identify genes upregulated in iBAT compared to iWAT in response to cold, and among these differentially expressed genes, they identify highly expressed GPCRs in human white adipocytes (visceral or subcutaneous). Finally, among these genes, they select a GPCR not previously studied in the literature.

If the authors are interested in beiging, why do they not focus on genes upregulated in iWAT (the depot where beiging is described to occur in mice), comparing thermoneutral to cold-induced genes? I would expect that genes induced in iWAT in response to cold would be extremely relevant targets for beiging. With their strategy, the authors exclude receptors that are induced in the tissue where beiging is actually described to occur.

Furthermore, the authors are comparing genes upregulated in cold in BAT (but not WAT) to highly expressed genes in human white adipocytes during thermoneutrality. Overall, the authors fail to discuss the logic behind their strategy and the obvious limitations of it.

(2) Relevance of ADGRA3 and comparison to established literature:

There has been a lot of literature and discussion about which receptor should be targeted in humans to recruit thermogenic fat. The current article unfortunately does not discuss this literature nor explain how it relates to their findings. For example, O'Mara et al (PMID: 31961826) demonstrated that chronic stimulation with the B3 adrenergic agonist, Mirabegron, resulted in the recruitment of thermogenic fat and improvement in insulin sensitivity and cholesterol. Later, Blondin et al (PMID: 32755608), highlighted the B2 adrenergic receptor as the main activation path of thermogenic fat in humans. There is also a recent report on an agonist activating B2 and B3 simultaneously (PMID: 38796310). Thus, to bring the literature forward, it would be beneficial if the current manuscript compared their identified activation path with the activation of these already established receptors and discussed their findings in relation to previous studies.

In Figures 1d and e, the authors show the expression of ADGRA3 in comparison to the expression of ADRB3. In human brown adipocytes, ADRB2 has been shown to be the main receptor through which adrenergic activation occurs (PMID: 32755608), thus authors should show the relative expression of this gene as well.

(3) Strategy to investigate the role of ADGRA3 in WAT beiging:

Having identified ADGRA3 as their candidate receptor, the authors proceed with investigations of this receptor in mouse models and the murine inguinal adipocyte cell line 3T3.

First of all, in Figure 1D, the authors show a substantially lower expression of ADGRA3 compared to ADRB3. It could thus be argued that a mouse would not be the best model system for studying this receptor. It would be interesting to see data from experiments in human adipocytes. Moreover, if the authors are interested in inducing beiging, why do they show expression in iBAT and not iWAT?

The authors perform in vivo experiments using intraperitoneal injections of shRNA or overexpression CMV-driven vectors and report effects on body temperature and glucose metabolism. It is here important to note that ADGRA3 is not uniquely expressed in adipocytes. A major advantage of databases like the Human Protein Atlas and Gtex, is that they give an overview of the gene expression across tissues and cell types. When looking up ADGRA3 in these databases, it is expressed in subcutaneous and visceral adipocytes. However, other cell types and tissues demonstrate an even higher expression. In the Human protein atlas, the enhanced cell types are astrocytes and hepatocytes. In the Gtex database tissues with the highest expression are Brain, Liver, and Thyroid.

With this information in mind, IP injections for modification of ADGRA3 receptor expression could be expected to affect any of these tissues and cells.

The manuscript report changes body temperature. However, temperature is regulated by the brain and also affected by thyroid activity. Did the authors measure the levels of circulating thyroid hormones? Gene expression changes in the brain? The authors report that Adgra3 overexpression decreased the TG level in serum and liver. The liver could be the primary targeted organ here, and the adipose effects might be secondary. The data would be easier to interpret if authors reported the effects on the liver, thyroid, and brain, and the gene expression across tissues should be discussed in the article.

Finally, the identification of Hesperetin using the PRESTO-Salsa tool, and how specific the effect of Hesperetin is on ADGRA3, is currently unclear. This should be better discussed, and authors should consider measuring the established effects of Hesperetin in their model systems, including apoptosis.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Based on bioinformatics and expression analysis using mouse and human samples, the authors claim that the adhesion G-protein coupled receptor ADGRA3 may be a valuable target for increasing thermogenic activity and metabolic health. Genetic approaches to deplete ADGRA3 expression in vitro resulted in reduced expression of thermogenic genes including Ucp1, reduced basal respiration, and metabolic activity as reflected by reduced glucose uptake and triglyceride accumulation. In line, nanoparticle delivery of shAdgra3 constructs is associated with increased body weight, reduced thermogenic gene expression in white and brown adipose tissue (WAT, BAT), and impaired glucose and insulin tolerance. On the other hand, ADGRA3 overexpression is associated with an improved metabolic profile in vitro and in vivo, which can be explained by increasing the activity of the well-established Gs-PKA-CREB axis. Notably, a computational screen suggested that ADGRA3 is activated by hesperetin. This metabolite is a derivative of the major citrus flavonoid hesperidin and has been described to promote metabolic health. Using appropriate in vitro and in vivo studies, the authors show that hesperetin supplementation is associated with increased thermogenesis, UCP1 levels in WAT and BAT, and improved glucose tolerance, an effect that was attenuated in the absence of ADGRA3 expression.

Overall, the data suggest that ADGRA3 is a constitutively active Gs-coupled receptor that improves metabolism by activating adaptive thermogenesis in WAT and BAT. The conclusions of the paper are partly supported by the data, but some experimental approaches need further clarification.

(1) The in vivo approaches to modulate Adgra3 expression in mice are carried out using non-targeted nanoparticle-based approaches. The authors do not provide details of the composition of the nanomaterials, but it is highly likely that other metabolically active organs such as the liver are targeted. This is critical because Adgre3 is expressed in many organs, including the liver, adrenal glands, and gastrointestinal system. Therefore, many of the observed metabolic effects could be indirect, for example by modulating bile acids or corticosterone levels. Consistent with this, after digestion in the gastrointestinal tract, hesperetin is rapidly metabolized in intestinal and liver cells. Thus, hesperetin levels in the systemic circulation are likely to be insufficient to activate Adgra3 in thermogenic adipocytes/precursors. Overall, the authors need to repeat the key metabolic experiments in adipose-specific Adgra3 knockout/overexpression models to validate the reliability of the in vivo results. In addition, to validate the relevance of hesperetin supplementation for adaptive thermogenesis in BAT and WAT vivo, the levels of hesperetin present in the systemic circulation should be quantified.

(2) Standard measurements for energy balance are not presented. Quantitative data on energy expenditure, e.g. by indirect calorimetry, and food intake are missing and need to be included to validate the authors' claims.

(3) The thermographic images used to determine the BAT temperature are not very convincing. The distance and angle between the thermal camera and the BAT have a significant effect on the determination of the temperature, which is not taken into account, at least in the images presented.

(4) The 3T3-L1 cell line is not an adequate cell culture model to study thermogenic adipocyte differentiation. To validate their results, the key experiments showing that ADGRA3 expression modulates thermogenic marker expression in a hesperetin-dependent manner need to be performed in a reliable model, e.g. primary murine adipocytes.

(5) The experimental setup only allows the measurement of basal cellular respiration. More advanced approaches are needed to define the contribution of ADGRA3 versus classical adrenergic receptors to UCP1-dependent thermogenesis.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

Summary:

The manuscript by Zhao et al. explored the function of adhesion G protein-coupled receptor A3 (ADGRA3) in thermogenic fat biology.

Strengths:

Through both in vivo and in vitro studies, the authors found that the gain function of ADGRA3 leads to browning of white fat and ameliorates insulin resistance.

Weaknesses:

There are several lines of weak methodologies such as using 3T3-L1 adipocytes and intraperitoneal(i.p.) injection of virus. Moreover, as the authors stated that ADGRA3 is constitutively active, how could the authors then identify a chemical ligand?

Recommendations:

(1) Primary cultured cells should be used to perform gain and loss function analysis of ADGRA3, instead of using 3T3-L1. It is impossible to detect Ucp1 expression in 3T3-L1 cells.

(2) For virus treatment, the authors should consider performing local tissue injection, rather than IP injection. If it is IP injection, have the authors checked other tissues to validate whether the phenotype is fat-specific?

(3) The authors should clarify how constitutively active GPCR needs further ligands.

eLife assessment

This study identified an innovative molecular mechanism linking diabetes to Alzheimer's disease (AD) risk, with important significance. The finding presents novel insights into AD pathogenesis and provides strong evidence about the mechanistic roles of Kallistatin, and the therapeutic potential of fenofibrate in AD. The experiments are well conducted, and the evidence is convincing.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

Summary:

Qi and colleagues investigated the role of the Kallistatin pathway in increasing hippocampal amyloid-β plaque accumulation and tau hyperphosphorylation in Alzheimer's disease, linking the increased Kallistatin level in diabetic patients with a higher risk of Alzheimer's disease development. A Kallistatin-overexpressing animal model was utilized, and memory impairment was assessed using Morris water maze and Y-maze. Kallistatin-related pathway protein levels were measured in the hippocampus, and phenotypes were rescued using fenofibrate and rosiglitazone. The current study provides evidence of a novel molecular mechanism linking diabetes and Alzheimer's disease and suggests the potential use of fenofibrate to alleviate memory impairment. However, several issues need to be addressed before further consideration.

Strengths:

The findings of this study are novel. The findings will have great impacts on diabetes and AD research. The studies were well conducted, and the results were convincing.

Weaknesses:

(1) The mechanism by which fenofibrate rescues memory loss in Kallistatin-transgenic mice is unclear. As a PPARalpha agonist, does fenofibrate target the Kallistatin pathway directly or indirectly? Please provide a discussion based on literature supporting either possibility.

(2) The current study exclusively investigated the hippocampus. What about other cognitive memory-related regions, such as the prefrontal cortex? Including data from these regions or discussing the possibility of their involvement could provide a more comprehensive understanding of the role of Kallistatin in memory impairment.

(3) Fenofibrate rescued phenotypes in Kallistatin-transgenic mice while rosiglitazone, a PPARgamma agonist, did not. This result contradicts the manuscript's emphasis on a PPARgamma-associated mechanism. Please address this inconsistency.

(4) Most of the immunohistochemistry images are unclear. Inserts have similar magnification to the original representative images, making judgments difficult. Please provide larger inserts with higher resolution.

(5) The immunohistochemistry images in different figures were taken from different hippocampal subregions with different magnifications. Please maintain consistency, or explain why CA1, CA3, or DG was analyzed in each experiment.

(6) Figure 5B is missing a title. Please add a title to maintain consistency with other graphs.

(7) Please list statistical methods used in the figure legends, such as t-test or One-way ANOVA with post-hoc tests.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Summary:

The study links Alzheimer's disease (AD) with metabolic disorders through elevated Kallistatin levels in AD patients. Kallistatin-overexpressing mice show cognitive decline, increased Aβ and tau pathology, and impaired hippocampal function. Mechanistically, Kallistatin enhances Aβ production via Notch1 and promotes tau phosphorylation through GSK-3β activation. Fenofibrate improves cognitive deficits by reducing Aβ and tau phosphorylation in these mice, suggesting therapeutic potential in AD linked to metabolic syndromes.

Strengths:

This study presents novel insights into AD pathogenesis and provides strong evidence about the mechanistic roles of Kallistatin, and the therapeutic potential of fenofibrate in AD.

Weaknesses:

It was suggested that Kallistatin is primarily produced by the liver. The study demonstrates increased Kallistatin levels in the hippocampus tissue of AD mice. It would be valuable to clarify if Kallistatin is also increased in the liver of AD mice, providing a comprehensive understanding of its distribution in disease states.

Does Kallistatin interact directly with Notch1 ligands? Clarifying this interaction mechanism would enhance understanding of how Kallistatin influences Notch1 signaling in AD pathology.

Is there any observed difference in AD phenotype between male and female Kallistatin-transgenic (KAL-TG) mice? Including this information would address potential gender-specific effects on cognitive decline and pathology.

It is recommended to include molecular size markers in Western blots for clarity and accuracy in protein size determination.

The language should be revised for enhanced readability and clarity, ensuring that complex scientific concepts are communicated effectively to a broader audience.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

Summary:

The authors investigated the role of kallistatin in metabolic abnormalities associated with AD. They found that Kallistatin promotes Aβ production by binding to the Notch1 receptor and upregulating BACE1 expression. They identified that Kallistatin is a key player that mediates Aβ accumulation and tau hyperphosphorylation in AD.

Strengths:

This manuscript not only provides novel insights into the pathogenesis of AD, but also indicates that the hypolipidemic drug fenofibrate attenuates AD-like pathology in Kallistatin transgenic mice.

Weaknesses:

The authors did not illustrate whether the protective effect of fenofibrate against AD depends on kallistatin.

The conclusions are supported by the results, but the quality of some results should be improved.

eLife assessment

This valuable study investigates the selectivity of neuronal responses in the primary visual cortex and the dorsal lateral geniculate nucleus to stimuli presented far outside their receptive fields. The evidence supporting the claims is incomplete, due to lack of clarity. This paper should be of interest to neurophysiologists interested in vision and contextual modulations.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

Summary:

The authors report a study on how stimulation of receptive-field surround of V1 and LGN neurons affects their firing rates. Specifically, they examine stimuli in which a grey patch covers the classical RF of the cell and a stimulus appears in the surround. Using a number of different stimulus paradigms they find a long latency response in V1 (but not the LGN) which does not depend strongly on the characteristics of the surround grating (drifting vs static, continuous vs discontinuous, predictable grating vs unpredictable pink noise). They find that population responses to simple achromatic stimuli have a different structure that does not distinguish so clearly between the grey patch and other conditions and the latency of the response was similar regardless of whether the center or surround was stimulated by the achromatic surface. Taken together they propose that the surround-response is related to the representation of the grey surface itself. They relate their findings to previous studies that have put forward the concept of an 'inverse RF' based on strong responses to small grey patches on a full-screen grating. They also discuss their results in the context of studies that suggest that surround responses are related to predictions of the RF content or figure-ground segregation.

Strengths:

I find the study to be an interesting extension of the work on surround stimulation and the addition of the LGN data is useful showing that the surround-induced responses are not present in the feed-forward path. The conclusions appear solid, being based on large numbers of neurons obtained through Neuropixels recordings. The use of many different stimulus combinations provides a rich view of the nature of the surround-induced responses.

Weaknesses:

The statistics are pooled across animals, which is less appropriate for hierarchical data. There is no histological confirmation of placement of the electrode in the LGN and there is no analysis of eye or face movements which may have contributed to the surround-induced responses. There are also some missing statistics and methods details which make interpretation more difficult.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Cuevas et al. investigate the stimulus selectivity of surround-induced responses in the mouse primary visual cortex (V1). While classical experiments in non-human primates and cats have generally demonstrated that stimuli in the surround receptive field (RF) of V1 neurons only modulate activity to stimuli presented in the center RF, without eliciting responses when presented in isolation, recent studies in mouse V1 have indicated the presence of purely surround-induced responses. These have been linked to prediction error signals. In this study, the authors build on these previous findings by systematically examining the stimulus selectivity of surround-induced responses.

Using neuropixels recordings in V1 and the dorsal lateral geniculate nucleus (dLGN) of head-fixed, awake mice, the authors presented various stimulus types (gratings, noise, surfaces) to the center and surround, as well as to the surround only, while also varying the size of the stimuli. Their results confirm the existence of surround-induced responses in mouse V1 neurons, demonstrating that these responses do not require spatial or temporal coherence across the surround, as would be expected if they were linked to prediction error signals. Instead, they suggest that surround-induced responses primarily reflect the representation of the achromatic surface itself.

The literature on center-surround effects in V1 is extensive and sometimes confusing, likely due to the use of different species, stimulus configurations, contrast levels, and stimulus sizes across different studies. It is plausible that surround modulation serves multiple functions depending on these parameters. Within this context, the study by Cuevas et al. makes a significant contribution by exploring the relationship between surround-induced responses in mouse V1 and stimulus statistics. The research is meticulously conducted and incorporates a wide range of experimental stimulus conditions, providing valuable new insights regarding center-surround interactions.

However, the current manuscript presents challenges in readability for both non-experts and experts. Some conclusions are difficult to follow or not clearly justified.

I recommend the following improvements to enhance clarity and comprehension:

(1) Clearly state the hypotheses being tested at the beginning of the manuscript.

(2) Always specify the species used in referenced studies to avoid confusion (esp. Introduction and Discussion).

(3) Briefly summarize the main findings at the beginning of each section to provide context.

(4) Clearly define important terms such as "surface stimulus" and "early vs. late stimulus period" to ensure understanding.

(5) Provide a rationale for each result section, explaining the significance of the findings.

(6) Offer a detailed explanation of why the results do not support the prediction error signal hypothesis but instead suggest an encoding of the achromatic surface.

These adjustments will help make the manuscript more accessible and its conclusions more compelling.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

Summary:

This paper explores the phenomenon whereby some V1 neurons can respond to stimuli presented far outside their receptive field. It introduces three possible explanations for this phenomenon and it presents experiments that it argues favor the third explanation, based on figure/ground segregation.

Strengths:

I found it useful to see that there are three possible interpretations of this finding (prediction error, interpolation, and figure/ground). I also found it useful to see a comparison with LGN responses and to see that the effect there is not only absent but actually the opposite: stimuli presented far outside the receptive field suppress rather than drive the neurons. Other experiments presented here may also be of interest to the field.

Weaknesses:

The paper is not particularly clear. I came out of it rather confused as to which hypotheses were still standing and which hypotheses were ruled out. There are numerous ways to make it clearer.

eLife assessment

This work presents important findings regarding the interaction of the monkeypox virus (MPXV) attachment H3 protein with the cellular receptor heparan sulfate and the use of this information to develop antivirals potentially effective against all orthopoxviruses. Using a combination of state-of-the art computational and wet experiments the authors present solid evidence to sustain their claims. These results will interest those working on basic orthopoxviruses biology and antiviral development.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

Summary:

The study aimed to better understand the role of the H3 protein of the Monkeypox virus (MPXV) in host cell adhesion, identifying a crucial α-helical domain for interaction with heparan sulfate (HS). Using a combination of advanced computational simulations and experimental validations, the authors discovered that this domain is essential for viral adhesion and potentially a new target for developing antiviral therapies.

Strengths:

The study's main strengths include the use of cutting-edge computational tools such as AlphaFold2 and molecular dynamics simulations, combined with robust experimental techniques like single-molecule force spectroscopy and flow cytometry. These methods provided a detailed and reliable view of the interactions between the H3 protein and HS. The study also highlighted the importance of the α-helical domain's electric charge and the influence of the Mg(II) ion in stabilizing this interaction. The work's impact on the field is significant, offering new perspectives for developing antiviral treatments for MPXV and potentially other viruses with similar adhesion mechanisms. The provided methods and data are highly useful for researchers working with viral proteins and protein-polysaccharide interactions, offering a solid foundation for future investigations and therapeutic innovations.

Weaknesses:

However, some limitations are notable. Despite the robust use of computational methodologies, the limitations of this approach are not discussed, such as potential sources of error, standard deviation rates, and known controls for the H3 protein to justify the claims. Additionally, validations with methodologies like X-ray crystallography would further benefit the visualization of the H3 and HS interaction.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Summary:

The manuscript presenting the discovery of a heparan-sulfate (HS) binding domain in monkeypox virus (MPXV) H3 protein as a new anti-poxviral drug target, presented by Bin Zhen and co-workers, is of interest, given that it offers a potentially broad antiviral substance to be used against poxviruses. Using new computational biology techniques, the authors identified a new alpha-helical domain in the H3 protein, which interacts with cell surface HS, and this domain seems to be crucial for H3-HS interaction. Given that this domain is conserved across orthopoxviruses, authors designed protein inhibitors. One of these inhibitors, AI-PoxBlock723, effectively disrupted the H3-HS interaction and inhibited infection with Monkeypox virus and Vaccinia virus. The presented data should be of interest to a diverse audience, given the possibility of an effective anti-poxviral drug. 

Strengths:

In my opinion, the experiments done in this work were well-planned and executed. The authors put together several computational methods, to design poxvirus inhibitor molecules, and then they test these molecules for infection inhibition.

Weaknesses:

One thing that could be improved, is the presentation of results, to make them more easily understandable to readers, who may not be experts in protein modeling programs. For example, figures should be self-explanatory and understood on their own, without the need to revise text. Therefore, the figure legend should be more informative as to how the experiments were done.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

Summary:

The article is an interesting approach to determining the MPOX receptor using "in silico" tools. The results show the presence of two regions of the H3 protein with a high probability of being involved in the interaction with the HS cell receptor. However, the α-helical region seems to be the most probable, since modifications in this region affect the virus binding to the HS receptor.

Strengths:

In my opinion, it is an informative article with interesting results, generated by a combination of "in silico" and wet science to test the theoretical results. This is a strong point of the article.

Weaknesses:

Has a crystal structure of the H3 protein been reported?

The following text is in line 104: "which may represent a novel binding site for HS". It is unclear whether this means this "new binding site" is an alternative site to an old one or whether it is the true binding site that had not been previously elucidated.

eLife assessment

This study presents valuable framework and findings to our understanding of the brain cortex as a fractal object. Based on detailed methodology, the evidence provided on the stability of its shape property within 11 primate species is convincing, as well as the scale-specific effects of ageing on the human brain. This study will be of interest to neuroscientists interested in brain morphology, and to physicists and mathematicians interested in modeling the shapes of complex objects.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

In this manuscript, the authors analyze the shapes of cerebral cortices from several primate species, including subgroups of young and old humans, to characterize commonalities in patterns of gyrification, cortical thickness, and cortical surface area. The authors state that the observed scaling law shares properties with fractals, where shape properties are similar across several spatial scales. One way the authors assess this is to perform a "cortical melting" operation that they have devised on surface models obtained from several primate species. The authors also explore differences in shape properties between brains of young (~20 year old) and old (~80) humans. A challenge the authors acknowledge struggling with in reviewing the manuscript is merging "complex mathematical concepts and a perplexing biological phenomenon." This reviewer remains a bit skeptical about whether the complexity of the mathematical concepts being drawn from are justified by the advances made in our ability to infer new things about the shape of the cerebral cortex.

(1) The series of operations to coarse-grain the cortex illustrated in Figure 1 produces image segmentations that do not resemble real brains. The process to assign voxels in downsampled images to cortex and white matter is biased towards the former, as only 4 corners of a given voxel are needed to intersect the original pial surface, but all 8 corners are needed to be assigned a white matter voxel. The reason for introducing this bias (and to the extent that it is present in the authors' implementation) is not provided. The authors provide an intuitive explanation of why thickness relates to folding characteristics, but ultimately an issue for this reviewer is, e.g., for the right-most panel in Figure 2b, the cortex consists of several 4.9-sided voxels and thus a >2 cm thick cortex. A structure with these morphological properties is not consistent with the anatomical organization of typical mammalian neocortex.

(2) For the comparison between 20-year-old and 80-year-old brains, a well-documented difference is that the older age group possesses more cerebral spinal fluid due to tissue atrophy, and the distances between the walls of gyri becomes greater. This difference is born out in the left column of Figure 4b. It seems this additional spacing between gyri in 80 year olds requires more extensive down-sampling (larger scale values in Figure 4a) to achieve a similar shape parameter K as for the 20 year olds. The authors assert that K provides a more sensitive measure (associated with a large effect size) than currently used ones for distinguishing brains of young vs. old people. A more explicit, or elaborate, interpretation of the numbers produced in this manuscript, in terms of brain shape, might make this analysis more appealing to researchers in the aging field.

(3) In the Discussion, it is stated that self-similarity, operating on all length scales, should be used as a test for existing and future models of gyrification mechanisms. Given the lack of association between the abstract mathematical parameters described in this study and explicit properties of brain tissue and its constituents, it is difficult to envision how the coarse-graining operation can be used to guide development of "models of cortical gyrification."

(4) There are several who advocate for analyzing cortical mid-thickness surfaces, as the pial surface over-represents gyral tips compared to the bottoms of sulci in the surface area. The authors indicate that analyses of mid-thickness representations will be taken on in future work, but this seems to be a relevant control for accepting the conclusions of this manuscript.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

Summary: Through a rigorous methodology, the authors demonstrated that within 11 different primates, the shape of the brain followed a universal scaling law with fractal properties. They enhanced the universality of this result by showing the concordance of their results with a previous study investigating 70 mammalian brains, and the discordance of their results with other folded objects that are not brains. They incidentally illustrated potential applications of this fractal property of the brain by observing a scale-dependant effect of aging on the human brain.

Strengths:<br /> - New hierarchical way of expressing cortical shapes at different scales derived from previous report through implementation of a coarse-graining procedure<br /> - Investigation of 11 primate brains and contextualisation with other mammals based on prior literature<br /> - Proposition of tool to analyse cortical morphology requiring no fine tuning and computationally achievable<br /> - Positioning of results in comparison to previous works reinforcing the validity of the observation.<br /> - Illustration of scale-dependance of effects of brain aging in the human.

Weaknesses:<br /> - The notion of cortical shape, while being central to the article, is not really defined, leaving some interpretation to the reader<br /> - The organization of the manuscript is unconventional, leading to mixed contents in different sections (sections mixing introduction and method, methods and results, results and discussion...). As a result, the reader discovers the content of the article along the way, it is not obvious at what stages the methods are introduced, and the results are sometimes presented and argued in the same section, hindering objectivity.<br /> To improve the document, I would suggest a modification and restructuring of the article such that: 1) by the end of the introduction the reader understands clearly what question is addressed and the value it holds for the community, 2) by the end of the methods the reader understands clearly all the tools that will be used to answer that question (not just the new method), 3) by the end of the results the reader holds the objective results obtained by applying these tools on the available data (without subjective interpretations and justifications), and 4) by the end of the discussion the reader understands the interpretation and contextualisation of the study, and clearly grasps the potential of the method depicted for the better understanding of brain folding mechanisms and properties.

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews.

eLife assessment:

This study presents valuable framework and findings to our understanding of the brain as a fractal object by observing the stability of its shape property within 11 primate species and by highlighting an application to the effects of aging on the human brain. The evidence provided is solid but the link between brain shape and the underlying anatomy remains unclear. This study will be of interest to neuroscientists interested in brain morphology, whether from an evolutionary, fundamental or pathological point of view, and to physicists and mathematicians interested in modeling the shapes of complex objects.

We now clarified the outstanding questions regarding if our model outputs can be related to actual primate brain anatomy, which we believe was mainly based on comments regarding the validity of our output of apparently thicker cortices than nature can produce.

We address this point in more detail in the point-by-point response below, but want to address this misunderstanding directly here: Our algorithm does not produce thicker cortices with increasing coarse-graining scales; in fact, the cortical thickness never exceeds the actual cortical thickness in our outputs, but rather thins with each coarse-graining scale. In other words, we believe that our outputs are fully in line with neuroanatomy across species.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review): 

In this manuscript, the authors analyze the shapes of cerebral cortices from several primate species, including subgroups of young and old humans, to characterize commonalities in patterns of gyrification, cortical thickness, and cortical surface area. The authors state that the observed scaling law shares properties with fractals, where shape properties are similar across several spatial scales. One way the authors assess this is to perform a "cortical melting" operation that they have devised on surface models obtained from several primate species. The authors also explore differences in shape properties between brains of young (~20 year old) and old (~80) humans. A challenge the authors acknowledge struggling with in reviewing the manuscript is merging "complex mathematical concepts and a perplexing biological phenomenon." This reviewer remains a bit skeptical about whether the complexity of the mathematical concepts being drawn from are justified by the advances made in our ability to infer new things about the shape of the cerebral cortex. 

To allow scientists from all backgrounds to adopt these complex ideas, we have made our code to “melt” the brains and for further downstream analysis publicly available. We have now also provided a graphical user interface, to allow users without substantial coding experience to run the analysis. We also believe that the algorithmic concepts are easy to understand due to the similarity to the coarse-graining procedures found in long-standing and well-accepted box-counting algorithms.

Beyond the theoretical insight of the fractal nature of cortices and providing an explicit and crucial link between vastly different brains that are gyrified and those that are not, we believe that the advance gained by our methods for future applications is clearly demonstrated in our proof-of-principle with a four-fold increase in effect size. For reference, an effect size of 8 would translate to an almost perfect separation of groups, i.e. an ideal biomarker with near 100% sensitivity and specificity.

(1) The series of operations to coarse-grain the cortex illustrated in Figure 1 produces image segmentations that do not resemble real brains.

As re-iterated in our Methods and Discussion: “Note, of course, that the coarse-grained brain surfaces are an output of our algorithm alone and are not to be directly/naively likened to actual brain surfaces, e.g. in terms of the location or shape of the folds. Our comparisons here between coarse-grained brains and actual brains is purely on the level of morphometrics across the whole cortex.”

Fig. 1 therefore serves as an explanation to the reader on the algorithmic outputs, but each melted brain is not supposed to be directly/visually compared to actual brains. Similar to algorithms measuring the fractal dimension, or the exposed surface area of a given brain, the intermediate outputs of these algorithms are not supposed to represent any biologically observed brain structures, but rather serve as an abstraction to obtain meaningful morphometrics.

We additionally added a note to the caption of Fig. 1 to clarify this point:

“Note that the actual size of the brains for analysis are rescaled (see Methods and Fig. 3); we display all brains scaled at an equal size here for the ease of visualisation of the method.”

Finally, we also edited the entire paper for terminology to clearly distinguish the terms of (1) the cortex as a 3D object, (2) coarse-grained and voxelised versions thereof, and (3) summary morphological measures derived from the former. When we invite comparisons in our paper between real brains and coarse-grained brains, this is always at the level of summary morphological measures, not at the level of the 3D objects/voxelisations themselves.

The process to assign voxels in downsampled images to cortex and white matter is biased towards the former, as only 4 corners of a given voxel are needed to intersect the original pial surface, but all 8 corners are needed to be assigned a white matter voxel. The reason for introducing this bias (and to the extent that it is present in the authors' implementation) is not provided.

This detail was in the Supplementary, and we have now added additional clarification on this specific point to our Supplementary:

“In detail, we assign all voxels in the grid with at least four corners inside the original pial surface to the pial voxelization. This process allows the exposed surface to remain approximately constant with increasing voxel sizes. A constant exposed surface is desirable, as we only want to gradually ‘melt’ and fuse the gyri, but not grow the bounding/exposed surface as well. We want the extrinsic area to remain approximately constant as we decrease the intrinsic area via coarse-graining; it is like generating iterates of a Koch curve in reverse, from more to less detailed, by increasing the length of smallest line segment.

We then assign voxels with all eight corners inside the original white matter surface to the white matter voxelization. This is to ensure integrity of the white matter, as otherwise white matter voxels in gyri may become detached from the core white matter, and thus artificially increase white matter surface area. Indeed, the main results of the paper are not very sensitive to this decision using all eight corners, vs. e.g. only four corners, as we do not directly use white matter surface area for the scaling law measurements. However, we still maintained this choice in case future work wants to make use of the white matter voxelisations or derivative measures.”

Note on the point of white matter integrity that if both grey and white matter voxelisations require all 8 corner to be inside the respective mesh, there will be voxels not assigned to either at the grey/white matter interface, causing potential downstream issues.

We further acknowledge:

“Of course, our proposed procedure is not the only conceivable way to erase shape details below a given scale; and we are actively working on related algorithms that are also computationally cheaper. Nevertheless, the current version requires no fine-tuning, is computationally feasible and conceptually simple, thus making it a natural choice for introducing the methodology and approach.”

The authors provide an intuitive explanation of why thickness relates to folding characteristics, but ultimately an issue for this reviewer is, e.g., for the right-most panel in Figure 2b, the cortex consists of several 4.9-sided voxels and thus a >2 cm thick cortex. A structure with these morphological properties is not consistent with the anatomical organization of typical mammalian neocortex. 

We assume the reviewer refers to Fig. 1B with the panel on scale=4.9mm. We would like to point out that Fig. 1 serves as an explanation of the voxelisation method. For the actual analysis and Results, we are using re-scaled brains (see Fig. 2 with the ever decreasing brain sizes). The rescaling procedure is now expanded as below:

“Morphological properties, such as cortical thicknesses measured in our ‘melted’ brains are to be understood as a thickness relative to the size of the brain. Therefore, to analyse the scaling behaviour of the different coarse-grained realisations of the same brain, we apply an isometric rescaling process that leaves all dimensionless shape properties unaffected (more details in Suppl. S3.1). Conceptually, this process fixes the voxel size, and instead resizes the surfaces relative to the voxel size, which ensures that we can compare the coarse-grained realisations to the original cortices, and test if the former, like the latter, also scale according to Eqn. (1). Resizing, or more precisely, shrinking the cortical surface is mathematically equivalent to increasing the box size in our coarse-graining method. Both achieved an erasure of folding details below a certain threshold. After rescaling, as an example, the cortical thickness also shrinks with increasing levels of coarse-graining, and never exceeds the thickness measured at native scale.”

We additionally added a note to the caption of Fig. 1 to clarify this point:

“Note that the actual size of the brains for analysis are rescaled (see Methods and Fig. 3); we display all brains scaled at an equal size here for the ease of visualisation of the method.”

Finally, we also edited the entire paper for terminology to clearly distinguish the terms of (1) the cortex as a 3D object, (2) coarse-grained versions thereof, and (3) summary morphological measures derived from the former. When we invite comparisons in our paper between real brains and coarse-grained brains, this is always at the level of summary morphological measures, not at the level of the 3D objects themselves and their detailed anatomical features.

(2) For the comparison between 20-year-old and 80-year-old brains, a well-documented difference is that the older age group possesses more cerebral spinal fluid due to tissue atrophy, and the distances between the walls of gyri becomes greater. This difference is born out in the left column of Figure 4b. It seems this additional spacing between gyri in 80 year olds requires more extensive down-sampling (larger scale values in Figure 4a) to achieve a similar shape parameter K as for the 20 year olds. The authors assert that K provides a more sensitive measure (associated with a large effect size) than currently used ones for distinguishing brains of young vs. old people. A more explicit, or elaborate, interpretation of the numbers produced in this manuscript, in terms of brain shape, might make this analysis more appealing to researchers in the aging field.

We have removed the main results relating to K and aging from our last revision already to avoid confusion. This is now only in the supplementary analysis, and our claim of K being a more sensitive measure for age and ageing – whilst still true – will be presented in more detail in a series of upcoming papers.

(3) In the Discussion, it is stated that self-similarity, operating on all length scales, should be used as a test for existing and future models of gyrification mechanisms. Given the lack of association between the abstract mathematical parameters described in this study and explicit properties of brain tissue and its constituents, it is difficult to envision how the coarse-graining operation can be used to guide development of "models of cortical gyrification."

We have clarified in more detail what we meant originally in Discussion:

“Finally, this dual universality is also a more stringent test for existing and future models of cortical gyrification mechanisms at relevant scales, and one that moreover is applicable to individual cortices. For example, any models that explicitly simulate a cortical surface as an output could be directly coarse-grained with our method and the morphological trajectories can be compared with those of actual human and primate cortices. The simulated cortices would only be ‘valid’ in terms of the dual universality, if it also produces the same morphological trajectories.”

However, we agree with the reviewer that our paper could be misread as demanding direct comparisons of each coarse-grained brain with an actual brain, and we have now added the following text to clarify that this is not our intention for the proposed method or outputs.

“Note, we do not suggest to directly compare coarse-grained brain surfaces with actual biological brain surfaces. As we noted earlier, the coarse-grained brain surfaces are an output of our algorithm alone and not to be directly/naively likened to actual brain surfaces, e.g. in terms of the location or shape of the folds. Our comparisons here between coarse-grained brains and actual brains is purely on the level of morphometrics across the whole cortex.”

Indeed, the dual universality imposes restrictive constraints on the possible shapes of real cortices, but do not fully specify them. Presumably, the location of individual folds in different individuals and species will depend on their respective evolutionary histories, so there is no reason to expect a match in fold location between the ‘melted’ cortices of more gyrified species, on one hand, and the cortex of a less-gyrified one, on the other,  even if their global morphological parameters and global mechanism of folding coincide.

(4) There are several who advocate for analyzing cortical mid-thickness surfaces, as the pial surface over-represents gyral tips compared to the bottoms of sulci in the surface area. The authors indicate that analyses of mid-thickness representations will be taken on in future work, but this seems to be a relevant control for accepting the conclusions of this manuscript.

In the context of some applications and methods, we agree that the mid-surface is a meaningful surface to analyse. However, in our work, the mid-surface is not. The fractal estimation rests on the assumption that the exposed area hugs the object of interest (hence convex hull of the pial surface), as the relationship between the extrinsic and intrinsic areas across scales determine the fractal relationship (Eq. 2). If we used the mid-surface instead of the pial surface for all estimation, this would not represent the actual object of interest, and it is separated from the convex hull. Estimating a new convex hull based on the mid surface would be the equivalent of asking for the fractal dimension of the mid-surface, not of the cortical ribbon. In other words, it would be a different question, bound to yield a different answer.

Hence, we indicated in our original response that we only have a provisional answer, but more work beyond the scope of this paper is required to answer this question, as it is a separate question. The mid-surface, as a morphological structure in its own right, will have its own scaling properties, and our provisional understanding is that these also yield a scaling law parallel to those of the cortical ribbon with the same or a similar fractal dimension. But more systematic work is required to investigate this question at native scale and across scales.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

Summary: Through a rigorous methodology, the authors demonstrated that within 11 different primates, the shape of the brain followed a universal scaling law with fractal properties. They enhanced the universality of this result by showing the concordance of their results with a previous study investigating 70 mammalian brains, and the discordance of their results with other folded objects that are not brains. They incidentally illustrated potential applications of this fractal property of the brain by observing a scale-dependant effect of aging on the human brain. 

Strengths: 

- New hierarchical way of expressing cortical shapes at different scales derived from previous report through implementation of a coarse-graining procedure 

- Investigation of 11 primate brains and contextualisation with other mammals based on prior literature 

- Proposition of tool to analyse cortical morphology requiring no fine tuning and computationally achievable 

- Positioning of results in comparison to previous works reinforcing the validity of the observation. 

- Illustration of scale-dependance of effects of brain aging in the human. 

Weaknesses: 

- The notion of cortical shape, while being central to the article, is not really defined, leaving some interpretation to the reader 

- The organization of the manuscript is unconventional, leading to mixed contents in different sections (sections mixing introduction and method, methods and results, results and discussion...). As a result, the reader discovers the content of the article along the way, it is not obvious at what stages the methods are introduced, and the results are sometimes presented and argued in the same section, hindering objectivity. 

To improve the document, I would suggest a modification and restructuring of the article such that: 1) by the end of the introduction the reader understands clearly what question is addressed and the value it holds for the community, 2) by the end of the methods the reader understands clearly all the tools that will be used to answer that question (not just the new method), 3) by the end of the results the reader holds the objective results obtained by applying these tools on the available data (without subjective interpretations and justifications), and 4) by the end of the discussion the reader understands the interpretation and contextualisation of the study, and clearly grasps the potential of the method depicted for the better understanding of brain folding mechanisms and properties. 

We thank this reviewer again for their attention to detail and constructive comments. We have followed the detailed suggestions provided by us in the Recommendations For The Authors, and summarise the main changes here:

- We have restructured all sections to be more clearly following Introduction, Methods, Results, and Discussion; by using subsections, we believe the structure is now more accessible to readers.

-  We have now clarified the concept of “cortical shape”, as we use it in our paper in several places, by distinguishing clearly the object of study, and the morphological properties measured from it.

Recommendations for the authors: 

Reviewer #2 (Recommendations For The Authors): None 

Reviewer #3 (Recommendations For The Authors): 

I once again compliment the authors for their elegant work. I am happy with the way they covered my first feedback. My second review takes into account some comments made by other reviewers with which I agree. 

We thank this reviewer again for their attention to detail and constructive comments.

Recommendations for clarifications: 

General comments: The purpose of the article could be made clearer in the introduction. When I differentiate results from discussion, I think of results as objective measures or observations, while discussion will relate to the interpretation of these results (including comparison with previous literature, in most cases). 

We have restructured all sections to be more clearly following Introduction, Methods, Results, and Discussion; by using subsection, we believe the structure is now more accessible to readers.

- l.39: define or discuss "cortical shape" 

We have gone through the entire paper and corrected for any ambiguities. We specifically distinguish between the cortex as a structure overall, shape measures derived from this structure, and coarse-grained versions of the structure.

- l.48-74: this would match either an introduction or a discussion rather than a methods section. 

Done

- l.98-106: this would match a discussion rather than a methods section. 

Done

- l.111: here could be a good spot to discuss the 4 vs 8 corners for inclusion of pial vs white matter voxelization 

We have discussed this in the more detailed Supplementary section now, as after restructuring, this appears to be the more suitable place.

- l.140-180: it feels that this section mixes methods, results and discussion of the results 

We agree and we have resolved this by removing sentences and re-arranging sections.

- l.183-217: mix of results and discussion 

We agree and we have resolved this by removing sentences and re-arranging sections.

Small cosmetic suggestions: 

- l.44: conservation of 'some' quantities: vague 

Changed to conservation of morphological relationships across evolution

- l.66: order of citations ([24, 22,23]) 

Will be fixed at proof stage depending on format of references.

- l.77: delete space between citation and period 

Done

- l.77: I would delete 'say' 

Done

- l.86: 'but to also analyse' -> 'to analyse' 

Done

- l.105: remove 'we are encouraged that' 

Done

- l.111: 'also see' -> 'see also' 

Done

- l.164: 'remarkable': subjective 

Done

- l.189: define approx. abbreviation 

Done

- l.190: 'approx' -> 'approx.' 

Revised

- l.195: 'dramatic': subjective 

removed

-l. 246: 'much' -> vague 

explained

eLife assessment

This study presents a valuable report on a machine-learning tool for predicting synergistic drug combinations for cancer treatment. However, the evidence supporting the claims of the authors is incomplete, as the reported model shows some evidence of overfitting, and the claims of the authors could be strengthened if additional validation experiments were performed. The work will be of interest to oncologists and medical biologists working on cancer.

eLife assessment

This study reports a comparative biochemical and structural analysis of two PLP decarboxylase enzymes from plants. The work is useful because of the potential application of these enzymes in industrial theanine production. The structure provides a solid basis for understanding substrate specificity but some aspects of the work are incomplete. The paper will be of interest to enzymologists studying PLP enzymes and those working on enzyme engineering in plants.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Summary:

The manuscript focuses on comparison of two PLP-dependent enzyme classes that perform amino acyl decarboxylations. The goal of the work is to understand the substrate specificity and factors that influence catalytic rate in an enzyme linked to theanine production in tea plants.

Strengths:

The work includes x-ray crystal structures of modest resolution of the enzymes of interest. These structures provide the basis for design of mutagenesis experiments to test hypotheses about substrate specificity and the factors that control catalytic rate. These ideas are tested via mutagenesis and activity assays, in some cases both in vitro and in plants.

Weaknesses:

Although improved in a revision, the manuscript could be more clear in explaining the contents of the x-ray structures and how the complexes studied relate to the reactant and product complexes. Some of the figures lack sufficient clarity and description. Some of the claims about the health benefits of tea are not well supported by literature citations.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

In the manuscript titled "Structure and Evolution of Alanine/Serine Decarboxylases and the Engineering of Theanine Production," Wang et al. solved and compared the crystal structures of Alanine Decarboxylase (AlaDC) from Camellia sinensis and Serine Decarboxylase (SerDC) from Arabidopsis thaliana. Based on this structural information, the authors conducted both in vitro and in vivo functional studies to compare enzyme activities using site-directed mutagenesis and subsequent evolutionary analyses. This research has the potential to enhance our understanding of amino acid decarboxylase evolution and the biosynthetic pathway of the plant specialized metabolite theanine, as well as to further its potential applications in the tea industry.

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews.

Response to reviewer’s comments

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Summary: 

The manuscript focuses on comparison of two PLP-dependent enzyme classes that perform amino acyl decarboxylations. The goal of the work is to understand the substrate specificity and factors that influence catalytic rate in an enzyme linked to theanine production in tea plants.

Strengths: 

The work includes x-ray crystal structures of modest resolution of the enzymes of interest. These structures provide the basis for design of mutagenesis experiments to test hypotheses about substrate specificity and the factors that control catalytic rate. These ideas are tested via mutagenesis and activity assays, in some cases both in vitro and in plants. 

Weaknesses:

Although improved in a revision, the manuscript could be more clear in explaining the contents of the x-ray structures and how the complexes studied relate to the reactant and product complexes. The manuscript could also be more concise, with a discussion section that is largely redundant with the results and lacking in providing scholarly context from the literature to help the reader understand how the current findings fit in with work to characterize other PLP-dependent enzymes or protein engineering efforts. Some of the figures lack sufficient clarity and description. Some of the claims about the health benefits of tea are not well supported by literature citations.

Thank you for your insightful comments on our manuscript and your recognition of the strengths of our study. We understand your concerns about the weaknesses mentioned, and we have addressed them appropriately in the revised manuscript. We acknowledge that the discussion section needs to be improved for conciseness and context. We have revised this part by removing the redundant content. We also acknowledge your comments concerning the clarity and description of some figures. We have revisited these figures and revised them, ensuring they are clear and adequately described. Lastly, concerning the claims about the health benefits of tea, we understand your concern about the lack of supporting citations. We ensure to back such claims with valid literature or, if necessary, omit these statements.

Reviewer #2 (Recommendations For The Authors):

(1) Line 21: Alanine Decarboxylase should not be capitalized.

Thank you very much for your careful reading of the manuscript. We have corrected it in the revised manuscript.

(2) Line 31: Grammatical error. Also not clear what "evolution analysis" means here. Revise to "Structural comparisons led us to..."

Thank you very much for your careful reading of the manuscript. We have corrected it in the revised manuscript.

(3) Line 34: Revise to "Combining a double mutant of CsAlaDC"

Thank you very much for your careful reading of the manuscript. We have corrected it in the revised manuscript.

(4) Line 35: Change word order to "increased theanine production 672%"

Thank you very much for your careful reading of the manuscript. We have corrected it in the revised manuscript.

(5) Line 37: meaning unclear. Revise to "provides a route to more efficient biosynthesis of theanine."

Thank you very much for your careful reading of the manuscript. We have corrected it in the revised manuscript.

(6) Line 44: I'm not sure that the "health effects" of tea have been proven in placebo controlled studies. And the references provided (2-4 and 5) do not describe original research articles supporting these claims. I would suggest removing these statements from the introduction and at later points in the manuscript.

Thank you for your thoughtful feedback and suggestions. Based on your suggestion, we have removed these statements: "The popularity of tea is determined by its favorable flavor and numerous health benefits (2-4). The flavor and health-beneficial effects of tea are conferred by the abundant secondary metabolites, including catechins, caffeine, theanine, volatiles, etc (5). " As for the subsequent statement: " It has also many health-promoting functions, including neuroprotective effects, enhancement of immune functions, and potential anti-obesity capabilities, among others. " the referenced literature cited can substantiate this conclusion.

(7) Line 58: insert "the" between provided and basis

Thank you very much for your careful reading of the manuscript. We have corrected it in the revised manuscript.

(8) Line 100: Not clear what this phrase means, "As expected, CsSerDC was closer to AtSerDC" Please clarify - closer to what?

We apologize for any confusion caused by the unclear phrasing. When referring to "CsSerDC was closer to AtSerDC," we intended to convey that CsSerDC exhibits a higher degree of sequence homology with AtSerDC than it does with the other enzymes evaluated in our investigation. However, a 1.29% difference between 86.21% and 84.92% in amino acid similarity is not statistically significant (Figure 1B and Supplementary table 1 in the original manuscript), we have deleted the relevant descriptions in the revised manuscript.

(9) Line 112: "were constructed into" makes no sense. It would be better to say the genes for the proteins of interest were inserted into the overexpression plasmid.

Thank you very much for your careful reading of the manuscript. We have corrected it in the revised manuscript.

(10) Line 115: missing the word "the" between generated and recombinant

Thank you very much for your careful reading of the manuscript. We have corrected it in the revised manuscript.

(11) Line 121: catalyze not catalyzed

Thank you very much for your careful reading of the manuscript. We have corrected it in the revised manuscript.

(12) Lines 129 and 130: The reported Km values are really large - in the mM range. Do these values make sense in terms of the available concentrations of the substrates inside the cell?

The content of alanine in tea plant roots ranges from 0.28 to 4.18 mg/g DW (Yu et al., 2021; Cheng et al., 2017). Correspondingly, the physiological concentration of alanine is 3.14 mM to 46.92 mM, in tea plant roots. The content of serine in plants ranges from 0.014 to 17.6 mg/g DW (Kumar et al., 2017). Correspondingly, the physiological concentration of serine is 0.13 mM to 167.48 mM in plants. Therefore, in this study, the Km values are within the range of available substrate concentrations inside the cell.

Yu, Y. et al. (2021) Glutamine synthetases play a vital role in high accumulation of theanine in tender shoots of albino tea germplasm "Huabai 1". J. Agric. Food Chem. 69 (46),13904-13915.

Cheng, S. et al. (2017) Studies on the biochemical formation pathway of the amino acid L-theanine in tea (Camellia sinensis) and other plants. J. Agric. Food Chem. 65 (33), 7210-7216.

Kumar, V. et al. (2017) Differential distribution of amino acids in plants. Amino Acids. 49(5), 821-869.

(13) Line 211: it is unclear what the phrase "as opposed to wild-type" means. Please clarify.

Thank you very much for your careful reading of the manuscript and valuable suggestions. We intend to communicate that the wild-type CsAlaDC and AtSerDC demonstrate decarboxylase activity, while the mutated proteins have experienced a loss of decarboxylation activity. We have already modified this concern in the revised version of the manuscript.

(14) Line 222: residues not residue

Thank you very much for your careful reading of the manuscript. We have corrected it in the revised manuscript.

(15) Line 227 and Figure 4B: It is not clear what the different sequence logos mean in this part of the figure. The caption is too brief and not helpful. And the sentences describing this figure panel are also not sufficiently clear.

Thank you very much for your careful reading of the manuscript and valuable suggestions. We have provided a more detailed explanation of this section in the revised manuscript and added additional annotations in the figure caption to provide further clarity.

(16) Lines 233 and 234: "in the substrate specificity" is awkwardly worded. I would revise to "in selective binding of the appropriate substrate."

Thank you very much for your careful reading of the manuscript and valuable suggestions. We have meticulously revised the description of this section.

(17) Line 243: a word is missing in this sentence - but I can't figure out the intended meaning or what the missing word is. Rephrase to improve clarity.

Thank you very much for your careful reading of the manuscript and valuable suggestions. We have revised this sentence to: " These findings indicate the essential role of Phe106 in the selective binding of alanine for CsAlaDC. "

(18) Line 255: The "expression system...was carried out" is not correct. I would say the expression system was used - but you probably also want to rearrange the sentences to more directly say what it was used for. Later, the word "the" is also missing.

Thank you very much for your careful reading of the manuscript and valuable suggestions. We have revised this sentence to: "To further verify that Phe106 of CsAlaDC and Tyr111 of AtSerDC were key amino acid residues determining its substrate recognition in planta, we employed the Nicotiana benthamiana transient expression system. "

(19) Line 273: use "understand" instead of "elucidate" and instead of "we proposed a prediction test:" say "we designed a test of the prediction that..."

Thank you very much for your careful reading of the manuscript. We have revised this sentence to: “In light of this observation, we postulated a hypothesis:”

(20) Line 301: I don't think "effectuate" is a word. Replace with something else.

Thank you very much for your careful reading of the manuscript. We have revised the sentence as: " The biosynthetic pathway of theanine in tea plants comprises two consecutive enzymatic steps: alanine decarboxylase facilitates the decarboxylation of alanine to generate EA, while theanine synthetase catalyzes the condensation reaction between EA and Glu to synthesize theanine. "

(21) Line 307: replace "activity" with "ability"

Thank you very much for your careful reading of the manuscript. We have corrected it in the revised manuscript.

(22) Line 322: I didn't find the discussion very useful. Much of it is simply a recap of the results - which is not necessary. The structural comparisons are overly descriptive without providing appropriate rationale or topic sentence structure so that the reader understands why certain details are emphasized. I think the manuscript would be much stronger if this section were not included or integreted more concisely into the results section where appropriate.

Thank you for your constructive comments. We understand your concerns about the discussion section of our manuscript. We acknowledge that the discussion section has redundancies with the result. In response to this, we have revised this section to eliminate unnecessary repetition of the results.

(23) Line 369: "an amino acid devoid of the hydroxyl moiety present in Lys" - what does this mean? Lys does not have a hydroxyl functional group. Please correct so that the sentence makes sense.

Thank you very much for your careful reading of the manuscript. This sentence states that the amino acid occupying the corresponding position in CsAlaDC is Phe, which lacks one hydroxyl functional group as compared to Lys. We have made modifications to the sentence as follows: "In contrast, the equivalent position in CsAlaDC is occupied by Phe, an amino acid lacking the hydroxyl group. This substitution enhances the hydrophobic nature of the substrate-binding pocket. "

(24) Line 370: "This structural nuance portends a predisposition for CsAlaDC to select the comparatively hydrophobic amino acid alanine as its suitable substrate." This sentence also makes no sense - please revise to use simpler language so the meaning is more clear.

Thank you very much for your careful reading of the manuscript and valuable suggestions. We have revised the sentence as follows: " Consequently, CsAlaDC demonstrates a unique predilection, selectively binding Ala (an amino acid with comparatively hydrophobic properties) as its preferred substrate."

(25) Lines 376-384: This section makes several references to "catalytic rings." I have no idea what this term means? If the authors mean a loop structure in the enzyme - please use the term "loop"

Thank you very much for your careful reading of the manuscript and valuable suggestions. We have corrected it in the revised manuscript.

(26) Line 396-397: The authors reference data that is not shown in the manuscript. Either show the data in the results section or do not mention.

Thank you for your insightful comment regarding the unshown data referenced in the manuscript. We have included Supplementary figure 9 in the revised manuscript to display this data.

(27) Line 445-446: what is "mutation technology" - if the authors mean site-directed mutagenesis - please use the simpler and more recognizable terminology.

Thank you very much for your careful reading of the manuscript and valuable suggestions. We have revised the sentence as follows: "Based on the findings of this study, site-directed mutagenesis can be employed to modify enzymes involved in theanine synthesis. This modification enhances the capacity of bacteria, yeast, model plants, and other organisms to synthesize theanine, thereby facilitating its application in industrial theanine production."

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

In the manuscript titled "Structure and Evolution of Alanine/Serine Decarboxylases and the Engineering of Theanine Production," Wang et al. solved and compared the crystal structures of Alanine Decarboxylase (AlaDC) from Camellia sinensis and Serine Decarboxylase (SerDC) from Arabidopsis thaliana. Based on this structural information, the authors conducted both in vitro and in vivo functional studies to compare enzyme activities using site-directed mutagenesis and subsequent evolutionary analyses. This research has the potential to enhance our understanding of amino acid decarboxylase evolution and the biosynthetic pathway of the plant specialized metabolite theanine, as well as to further its potential applications in the tea industry.

Thank you very much for taking the time to review this manuscript. We appreciate all your insightful comments.

Reviewer #3 (Recommendations For The Authors):

The additional material added by the authors addresses some of the previously raised questions and enhances the manuscript's quality. However, certain critical issues we pointed out earlier remain unaddressed. Some of the new data also raises new questions. To provide readers with more comprehensive data, the authors should include additional quantitative data and convert the data presented in the reviewer's comments into supplemental figure format.

Thank you for acknowledging the improvements in the revised manuscript and providing further valuable feedback. We understand your concern about the critical issues that have not been fully addressed and the new questions raised by some of the newly added data. We have strived to address these issues with additional analysis and clarification in our subsequent revision. Regarding your suggestion for more quantitative data and converting the data mentioned in the reviewer's comments into a supplemental figure format, we agree that this would provide a more comprehensive view of the results. We have reformatted the relevant data into supplemental figures to enhance the clarity and accessibility of information. We are grateful for the time and effort you have dedicated to improving our manuscript.

* Page 5 & Figure 1B

"As expected, CsSerDC was most closed to AtSerDC, which implies that they shared similar functions. However, CsAlaDC is relatively distant from CsSerDC."

: In Figure 1B, CsSerDC and AtSerDC are in different clades, and this figure does not show that the two enzymes are closest. To provide another quantitative comparison, please provide a matrix table showing amino acid sequence similarities as a supplemental table. 

Comment: I don't believe that a 1.29% difference between 86.21% and 84.92% in amino acid similarity is statistically significant. Although the authors have rephrased the original sentence, it's improbable that this small 1.29% difference can explain the observed distinction.

Many thanks. We have carefully considered your comments. Indeed, the 1.29% difference in amino acid similarity cannot reflect the functional difference between the AlaDC and SerDC proteins. We have deleted the relevant descriptions in the revised manuscript.

* Page 6, Figure 2, Page 23 (Methods)

"The supernatants were purified with a Ni-Agarose resin column followed by size-exclusion chromatography."

: What kind of SEC column did the authors use? Can the authors provide the SEC elution profile comparison results and size standard curve?

Comment: The authors should include the SEC elution profiles as a supplemental figure or incorporate them as a panel in Figure 2. Furthermore, they should provide a description of the oligomeric state of each protein in this experiment. Additionally, there is a significant difference between CsSerDC (65.38 mL) and CsAlaDC (74.37 mL) elution volumes. Can this difference be explained structurally? In comparison to the standard curve of molecular weight provided by the authors, it appears that these proteins are at least homo-tetramers, which contradicts the description in the text. This should be re-evaluated and clarified.  

Thank you very much for your careful reading of the manuscript and valuable suggestions. We have included the SEC elution profile in Supplemental figure 1A and added descriptions of the oligomeric states of proteins in the revised manuscript. CsSerDC was eluted at 65.38 mL, corresponding to a molecular weight of 292 kDa, which is five times the monomeric protein (54.7 kDa). However, due to the absence of CsSerDC crystal structure, it remains uncertain whether the protein forms a pentamer. AtSerDC was eluted at 72.25 mL, with a corresponding molecular weight of 155 kDa, which is 3.3 times the monomer (47.3 kDa). CsAlaDC was eluted at 74.37 mL, with a corresponding molecular weight of 127 kDa, which is 2.7 times the monomer (47.3 kDa). The elution profiles suggest that AtSerDC and CsAlaDC potentially exist in homotrimeric form. This observation stands in contradiction to our subsequent findings where the protein manifests in a dimeric structure. A plausible explanation could be the non-ideal spherical shape of the protein. Under such circumstances, the hydrodynamic radius of the protein could supersede its actual size, potentially leading to an overestimation of the molecular weight on the size-exclusion chromatography [ref].

References:

Burgess, R. R. (2018) A brief practical review of size exclusion chromatography: Rules of thumb, limitations, and troubleshooting. Protein Expression and Purification. 150, 81-85.

Erdner J. M., et al. (2006) Size-Exclusion Chromatography Using Deuterated Mobile Phases. Journal of Chromatography A. 1129(1):41–46.

* Page 6 & Page 24 (Methods)

"The 100 μL reaction mixture, containing 20 mM substrate (Ala or Ser), 100 mM potassium phosphate, 0.1 mM PLP, and 0.025 mM purified enzyme, was prepared and incubated at standard conditions (45 {degree sign}C and pH 8.0 for CsAlaDC, 40 {degree sign}C and pH 8.0 for AtSerDC for 30 min)."

(1) The enzymatic activities of CsAldDC and AtSerDC were measured at two different temperatures (45 and 40 {degree sign}C), but their activities were directly compared. Is there a reason for experimenting at different temperatures?

(2) Enzyme activities were measured at temperatures above 40{degree sign}C, which is not a physiologically relevant temperature and may affect the stability or activity of the proteins. At the very least, the authors should provide temperature-dependent protein stability data (e.g., CD spectra analysis) or, if possible, temperature-dependent enzyme activities, to show that their experimental conditions are suitable for studying the activities of these enzymes.

Comment: I appreciate the authors for including temperature-dependent enzyme activity data in their study. However, it remains puzzling that plant enzymes were tested at a physiologically irrelevant temperature of 40 and 45 degrees Celsius. Additionally, it may not be appropriate to directly compare enzyme activity measurements at different temperatures. Furthermore, the data at 45 degrees in panel A appears to be an outlier, which contrasts with the overall trend observed in the graph.

We appreciate your point regarding the testing temperatures for plant enzymes. We fully appreciate the importance of conducting experiments under physiologically relevant conditions. But the intent behind operating at these elevated temperatures was to assess the thermal stability of the enzymes, which can be a valuable characteristic in certain applications, such as industrial production processes, and does not necessarily reflect their physiological conditions. Our findings indicate that CsAlaDC exhibits its peak activity at 45 °C. This result aligns with previously reported data in the literature [Bai, P. et al. (2021) figure 4e], thus bolstering our confidence in the reliability of our experimental outcomes.

Author response image 1.

Relative activity of CsAlaDC at different temperatures.

* Pages 6-7 & Table 1

(1) Use the correct notation for Km and Vmax. Also, the authors show kinetic parameters and use multiple units (e.g., mmol/L or mM for Km).

(2) When comparing the catalytic efficiency of enzymes, kcat/Km (or Vmax/Km) is generally used. The authors present a comparison of catalytic activity from results to conclusion. A clarification of what results are being compared is needed.

Comment: The authors are still comparing catalytic efficiency solely based on the Vmax values. As previously suggested, it would be advisable to calculate kcat/Km and employ it for comparing catalytic efficiencies. Furthermore, based on the data provided by the authors, I conducted a rough calculation of these catalytic efficiencies and did not observe a significant difference, which contrasts with the authors' statement, "These findings indicated that the catalytic efficiency of CsAlaDC is considerably lower than that of both CsSerDC and AtSerDC." This discrepancy requires clarification.  

We want to express our sincere appreciation for your meticulous review and constructive suggestions. We understand the importance of accurately comparing catalytic efficiencies using Kcat/Km values, rather than solely relying on Vmax values. Following your suggestion, we recalculated Kcat/Km to reanalyze our results. The computed Kcat/Km for CsSerDC and AtSerDC are 152.7 s-1 M-1 and 184.6 s-1 M-1, respectively. For CsAlaDC, the calculated Kcat/Km is 55.7 s-1 M-1. Therefore, the catalytic efficiency of CsSerDC and AtSerDC is approximately three times that of CsAlaDC.  What we intended to convey was that the Vmax of CsAlaDC is lower than that of CsSerDC and AtSerDC.  Our description in the manuscript was not accurate, and we have addressed this in the revised version.

* Pages 9 & 10

"This result suggested this Tyr is required for the catalytic activity of CsAlaDC and AtSerDC."

: The author's results are interesting, but it is recommended to perform the experiments in a specific order. First, experiments should determine whether mutagenesis affects the protein's stability (e.g., CD, as discussed earlier), and second, whether mutagenesis affects ligand binding (e.g., ITC, SPR, etc.), before describing how site-directed mutagenesis alters enzyme activity. In particular, the authors' hypothesis would be much more convincing if they could show that the ligand binding affinity is similar between WT and mutants.

Comments: While it is appreciated that you have included CD and UV-vis absorption spectra data, it would be more beneficial to provide quantitative data to address the previously proposed binding affinity. I also recommend presenting the data mentioned in the reviewer's comments as a supplementary figure for better clarity and reference.  

Thank you for your valuable feedback and suggestions. I agree that providing quantitative data would lend more support to our findings and better address the proposed binding affinity.

It is generally acknowledged that proteins complexed with PLP exhibit a yellow hue, and the ligand PLP forms a Schiff base structure with the ε-amino group of a lysine residue in the protein, with maximum absorbance around 420 nm. However, during our protein purification process, we observed that the purified protein retained its yellow coloration, even when PLP wasn't introduced into the purification buffer. Subsequent absorbance measurements revealed that the protein exhibited absorbance within the aforementioned wavelength (420 nm) (the experimental results are shown in the following figures), implying an inherent presence of the PLP ligand within the protein. This could have resulted from binding with PLP during the protein's expression in E. coli. Consequently, due to this inseparability between the protein and the ligand, obtaining quantitative data through experimental means becomes unfeasible.

Author response image 2.

(A) Absorption Spectra of CsAlaDC (WT) and CsAlaDC (Y336F). (B) Absorption Spectra of AtSerDC (WT) and AtSerDC (Y341F).

Regarding your suggestion about presenting the data mentioned in the reviewer's comments as a supplementary figure, we agree that it is an excellent idea. We have prepared supplementary figure 7 and supplementary figure 8 accordingly, ensuring that they present the required data.

* Page 10

"The results showed that 5 mM L-DTT reduced the relative activity of CsAlaDC and AtSerDC to 22.0% and 35.2%, respectively"

: The authors primarily use relative activity to compare WT and mutants. Can the authors specify the exact experiments, units, and experimental conditions? Is it Vmax or catalytic efficiency? If so, under what specific experimental conditions?

Response: "However, due to the unknown mechanism of DTT inhibition on protein activity, we have removed this part of the content in the revised manuscript."

Comment: I believe this requires a more comprehensive explanation rather than simply removing it from the text.  

Although we have observed that DTT is capable of inhibiting enzyme activity, at present, we are unable to offer a comprehensive explanation for the inhibitory effect of DTT on enzyme activity in terms of its structural and catalytic mechanisms. Further research is required to elucidate the mechanism of action of DTT. It is worth noting, however, that our study does not emphasize investigating the specific inhibitory mechanisms of DTT on enzyme activity. Furthermore, the existing findings do not provide an adequate explanation for the observed phenomenon, leading us to exclude this particular aspect from the content.

* Pages 10-12

: The identification of 'Phe106 in CsAlaDC' and 'Tyr111 in AtSerDC,' along with the subsequent mutagenesis and enzymatic activity assays, is intriguing. However, the current manuscript lacks an explanation and discussion of the underlying reasons for these results. As previously mentioned, it would be helpful to gain insights and analysis from WT-ligand and mutant-ligand binding studies (e.g., ITC, SPR, etc.). Furthermore, the authors' analysis would be more convincing with accompanying structural analysis, such as steric hindrance analysis.

Comment: While it is appreciated that you have included UV-vis absorption spectra data, it would be more beneficial to provide quantitative data to address the previously proposed binding affinity. I also recommend presenting the data mentioned in the reviewer's comments as a supplementary figure for better clarity and reference.  

Response: Thank you for your valuable feedback and suggestions. Given that the protein forms a complex with PLP during its expression in E. coli and cannot be dissociated from it, obtaining quantitative data via experimental protocols is rendered impracticable.

Author response image 3.

(A) Absorption Spectra of CsAlaDC (WT) and CsAlaDC (F106Y). (B) Absorption Spectra of AtSerDC (WT) and AtSerDC (Y111F).

Mutant proteins and wild-type proteins exhibited absorption bands at 420 nm, suggesting the formation of a Schiff base between PLP and the active-site lysine residue.

Regarding your suggestion about presenting the data mentioned in the reviewer's comments as a supplementary figure, we have prepared supplementary figure 7 and supplementary figure 8 accordingly, ensuring that they present the required data.

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

Public Reviews:

Reviewer #1:  

Overall, the conclusions appear appropriately supported by the data, and the data appear of high quality.

Strengths:

The particular strengths of the paper include an impressive combination of genomic and imaging-based approaches and insightful genetically engineered cell systems. The manuscript reports interesting and potentially important findings. The text is generally very well written, the ideas are clearly explained, and the reasoning is easy to follow.

Weaknesses:

The main weakness seems to be that the heat and ethanol shock approaches likely elicit pleiotropic effects, and therefore it is a challenge to test the causal relationship between various observations. Nevertheless, even as indirect effects might contribute to some of the authors' observations, the results are definitively worth reporting.  

We agree that these two proteotoxic stresses can impact cell physiology in multiple ways and discuss this on lines 132-143 and 500-519. Moreover, in this revision we have more rigorously quantified the extent of proteotoxic stress elicited by the 39°C heat shock and 8.5% ethanol stress (Figure 1E; see response 1 to Reviewer 2). We have additionally added new Figure 2 that reveals an important difference in the way Hsf1 and its negative regulator, the Hsp70 co-chaperone Sis1, respond to HS and ES. This difference is evident at two different intensities for each stress as described in more detail below (see response 1 to Reviewer 2).

Presentation of some of the data could be improved.

We agree and have made improvements/data additions to multiple figures: Figure 1E; Figures 3A, B; Figures 4A, B; Figure 7 (data drawn from original Fig. 6 and Fig. 6 – fig. suppl. 1 and reorganized); Fig. 8B; Figure 9; Figure 10. Corresponding enhancements to the supplemental figures have been made as well. 

Reviewer #2:  

(1) The central finding of the study highlights the different dynamics of Hsf1, Pol II, and gene organization in response to heat shock versus ethanol stress. However, one important limitation to consider is that the two chosen conditions may not be directly comparable. For a balanced assessment, the authors should ideally expose yeast to various ethanol concentrations and different heat shock temperatures, ensuring the observed differences stem from the nature of the stressor rather than suboptimal stress intensity. At the very least, an additional single ethanol concentration point on each side of 8.5% should be investigated to ensure that 8.5% is near the optimum. In fact, comparing the number of Hsp104 foci in the two conditions in Fig. 1E and F suggests that the yeast is likely experiencing different intensities of stress for the chosen heat shock condition and ethanol concentration used in this study.

We thank the reviewer for this important suggestion. In this revision, we have included an enhanced analysis of the yeast cellular response to each of these stresses. As illustrated in revised Figure 1, the two stresses used throughout this study – 39°C heat shock and 8.5% ethanol stress – both elicit a proteotoxic response, as assayed by the de novo formation of Hsp104 clusters. While 10 min exposure to 8.5% ethanol results in the formation of multiple discrete (spherical) foci, a 10 min exposure to the elevated temperature leads the appearance of multiple, largely diffuse Hsp104 clusters, some of which are spherical (new Fig. 1D). The difference in morphology notwithstanding, we have attempted to quantify these clusters using Imaris v. 10.0.1 image analysis software; the results are depicted in Fig. 1E. Such quantification suggests that 8.5% ethanol elicits a more intense stress than exposure to 39°C. A caveat is that it is unclear whether diffuse Hsp104 clusters are comparable to compact Hsp104 foci (see response 3 below).

Beyond the apparent difference in intensity, a new analysis presented in new Figure 2 reveals that heat shock, elicited by temperature upshift to either 39°C or 42°C, induces relocalization of the J-protein Sis1 – a key negative regulator of Hsf1 – from the nucleoplasm to the nucleolar periphery. Sis1’s perinucleolar ring localization agrees with previous findings of 39°C heat-shocked cells (Feder et al., 2021). Ethanol stress, whether 5% or 8.5%, initially causes Sis1 to relocalize diffusely throughout the nucleus and cytosol. At 10 min, Sis1 localizes to the periphery of the nucleus, thereby providing a marked contrast to what is observed in response to heat shock. These new results are described on lines 174-191.

Taking these two observations together, we asked whether a less severe ethanol stress (5%) would induce Hsf1 puncta. It does, and as rapidly as 8.5% ethanol (data are presented in revised Figure 8-figure supplement 1). Interestingly, in the presence of 5% ethanol, Hsf1 puncta begin to dissolve at 30 min. This strongly contrasts with the case when cells are exposed to 8.5% ethanol (Figure 8; Figure 8-figure supplement 1). As we state in this revision (lines 414-424), the sustained presence of condensates that we originally observed is likely the consequence of the intensity of the proteotoxic stress elicited by exposure to 8.5% ethanol; analogous responses to these two stress conditions have been observed before (lines 495-501). 

(2) A second significant concern is the use of the term "Hsf1 condensate". Chowdhary et al.'s 2022 Molecular Cell study highlighted an inhomogeneous distribution and rapid dynamics of Hsf1 clustering upon heat shock, with sensitivity to 1,6-hexandiol, which is interpreted as evidence for condensation by LLPS. However this interpretation has been criticized severely by McSwiggen et al. Genes Dev 2019 and Mussacchio EMBO J 2022. It is important to mention that 1,6-hexandiol is known to affect chromatin organization (Itoh et al. Life Science Alliance 2021). Describing such clusters as 'condensates' without further experimental evidence is premature.  

While we appreciate and largely agree with the point made by this reviewer, we prefer to maintain the term “condensate”. Banani et al (2017) originally defined “biomolecular condensate” to mean selforganized membrane-free compartments that concentrate specific biomolecules. It was never meant to imply LLPS although its widespread use in the literature has led to that implication. We clarify our use of this term on lines 99-104.   

(3) Figure 1: Why does ethanol stress at 0 min display a larger number of Hsp104 foci per cell than heat shock at the same time? How are foci defined by the authors? In Fig. 1D, there are many smaller puncta. A comparative assessment of the number and size of foci for heat shock and ethanol stress would be beneficial.

We thank the reviewer for raising this point and have addressed it as follows.  First, we repeated the assay with a different strain (DPY1561) and increased the number of cells assayed from 40 to 200. This larger sample size created the same T=0 baseline for both stresses (Figure 1E). Second, we define Hsp104 foci as diffraction-limited structures with a diameter of ~0.4 µm (lines 747-749).  Third, employing Imaris v. 10.0.1, we quantified foci size (= volume) and a summary graph has been added to Figure 1E that also displays the number of foci per cell. In the legend to this figure, we point out that to conduct this analysis we assumed that the diffuse Hsp104 clusters seen in HS cells are comparable to the compact Hsp104 foci in ES cells (lines 1169-1171). 

(4) Figure 2: Selecting a housekeeping gene with consistent expression levels is crucial for meaningful qPCR analysis. Do SCR1 mRNA levels fluctuate during heat shock or ethanol stress?  

We thank the reviewer for this question. In revised Figure 3 – figure supplement 1C we provide a new graph (reproduced here) revealing that the levels of SCR1 do not significantly change under either heat shock or ethanol stress relative to the non-stressed control (0 min). One-way ANOVA analysis was performed for both HS and ES and p values were 0.094 and 0.083, respectively (calculated using GraphPad Prism 8).

(5) Additionally, certain genes, such as TMA10 and SSA4, lack visible bars at time 0. Are these levels undetectable? The varying y-axis scales are confusing; presenting data as relative fold changes could offer a clearer perspective.

Transcript levels for all genes evaluated here are detectable, even in the basal unstressed state. They are not visible on the histogram for certain genes at T= 0 due to the prodigious fold-increase in RNA elicited by heat shock.  However, to address this concern, we have added a bar graph inset displaying basal transcript levels for each gene in revised Figure 3. We reproduce data for SSA4 and TMA10 in the graphs below. In addition, we present transcript levels in new Figure 3 - figure supplement 1 for cells subjected to ethanol stress to allow a better appreciation of their increase over time. 

Author response image 1.

(6) Line 239: The evidence for chromatin compaction is unconvincing. An increase in H3 occupancy by ChIP might indicate a reduction in histone exchange dynamics but may not relate to overall chromatin compaction. The authors use H2A-mCherry to suggest a decrease in chromatin volume, but this data is not persuasive. Did the authors observe any changes in nuclear size? Perhaps quantifying chromatin compaction more directly, using signal intensity per volume, would be informative.

To address this concern, we attempted to quantify integrated density for H2A-mCherry using Image J software. While the volume decreased for both stresses, the integrated density only increased for ethanol stress. We speculate that this may be due to photobleaching which has been reported for heat shock. The combination of heat and acidic pH contribute to loss of fluorescence signal (Alkaabi et al., 2005). While the integrated density supports the idea of global chromatin compaction in the ethanol stress condition, given the above concerns with the HS sample we elected to not present these data.

(7) Line 340: The claim of a "strong spatiotemporal correlation" isn't evident from the data. Could correlation coefficients be provided? There is potential anti-correlation in Fig. 6 - Figure Supplement 1C.

We thank the reviewer for this excellent suggestion. We now present an analysis of the correlation between HSP104 – HSP12 coalescence and HSP104 transcription for both HS and ES time courses, using single cell data of Figures 7D, 7E and Figure 7- suppl. 1D.  This analysis is presented in new Figure 7F.

(8) Figure 8: The WT data in Fig 8 seem inconsistent with Fig. 4 (e.g. the interaction frequency for HSP104 and SSA2). Are these fluctuations between experiments, or are they side effects of IAA treatment? The use of ethanol as an IAA solvent vehicle raises concerns. It would be beneficial if the authors could demonstrate that 1.7% ethanol in the control does not induce ethanol stress.

We acknowledge that there existed an inconsistency in the magnitude of intergenic interaction frequencies reported in the two experiments for HSP104 and SSA2. Some of this might be attributed to the fact that different strains were used, W303-1B in Figure 4 and LRY016 (W303-1B; LEU2::pGPD1osTIR1) in Figure 8. Nonetheless, in each experiment there was a prodigious fold-increase in interaction frequency over the no stress (T= 0 min) control for both HS and ES conditions and moreover, in each experiment the magnitude of this interaction was greater for the 2.5 min HS sample vs. the 10 min ES sample. However, to obviate this concern, we have removed the HSP104-SSA2 analysis from Figure 9 (corresponds to original Fig. 8).

Regarding the second point, we cannot entirely rule out the concern that the 1.7% ethanol vehicle might impact 3C interaction frequencies. It is unlikely to be significant, however, given that most other pairwise tests evaluated in the two experiments (Figs. 5 and 9) resulted in similar 3C values. In particular, there was no consistent trend towards higher (or lower) interaction frequencies in the IAA experiment of Fig. 9.  

Reviewer #3:  

This is an interesting manuscript that builds off of this group's previous work focused on the interface between Hsf1, heat shock protein (HSP) mRNA production, and 3D genome topology. Here the group subjects the yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae to either heat stress (HS) or ethanol stress (ES) and examines Hsf1 and Pol II chromatin binding, Histone occupancy, Hsf1 condensates, HSP gene coalescence (by 3C and live cell imaging), and HSP mRNA expression (by RT-qPCR and live cell imaging). The manuscript is well written, and the experiments seem well done, and generally rigorous, with orthogonal approaches performed to support conclusions…While identifying a mechanistic basis for the results [presented here] would be a tough task perhaps beyond the scope of this study, it would nevertheless be helpful to place these results in context with a series of other studies…importantly, this work left out PMID: 32015439 (HSF1 phase transition mediates stress adaptation and cell fate decisions) which is particularly relevant considering that it shows that it is human HSF1 condensate resolution rather than simple condensate formation that is associated with HSF1 transcriptional activity - which is similar to the findings here with this particular dose of HS resulting in resolution and high transcriptional activity versus ES resulting in resolution failure and lower activity. 

We thank the Reviewer for pointing out this oversight. In this revision, we cite Gaglia et al., 2020 and several others reporting HSF1 foci formation in human cells exposed to heat shock. The single cell analysis of Gaglia et al argued that dissolution of large HSF1 foci (aka “nuclear stress bodies”), typically several µm in diameter and localized over satellite III DNA repeats (Jolly et al., 1997, 2002), correlates with HSP gene activation. Importantly, these condensates are postulated to act as reservoirs of HSF1, sequestered away from HSP genes (Gaglia et al., 2020).  In contrast, Zhang et al., 2022 has shown that human HSF1 inducibly forms small condensates (~300 nm) that localize over HSP genes and whose formation directly correlates with HSP gene activation (we discuss the Jolly, Gaglia and Zhang findings on lines 382-394). Likewise, our work shows that in yeast, Hsf1 inducibly forms small, dynamic clusters that colocalize with HSR genes within 2.5 min of exposure to elevated temperature; these dissolve ~20-60 min later (Figure 8 and Figure 8-supp. 1). In concert with Hsf1 condensate formation, HSR gene repositioning and transcription/ Pol II recruitment are likewise evident within 2.5 min. Therefore, in HS cells there exists coordinate induction of condensate formation, Pol II recruitment, transcription and intergenic interactions (for a detailed kinetic analysis of HSR gene interactions, see Figures 5 and 6 of Chowdhary et al, 2017).  This tight temporal relationship is absent in ethanol stressed cells (Figures 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8; summarized in Figure 10 and Table 1).

It is also worth noting that the stresses themselves are quite different - ethanol can be used as a carbon source and so beyond inducing proteotoxic stress, the yeast are presumably adapting to this distinct metabolic state. Basically, it is not clear whether these differences are due to the dose of stress, versus we are looking at an early timepoint as ES initiates a genome-wide chromatin restructuring and gene expression reprogramming that goes beyond a response to proteotoxic stress. This reviewer is not suggesting a barrage of new experiments, but perhaps discussion points to contextualize results.

We thank the reviewer for this suggestion and in our revised manuscript discuss these issues (lines 414424 and 486-498 [5% vs. 8.5% ethanol]; lines 500-519 [ethanol as a metabolite]).

Recommendations for the authors:

Reviewer #1:

(1) In Figure 1E, the number of foci in control (0 min) cells is very different for the two conditions. Could the authors clarify/check this? Based on the mean numbers at time point 0, the control cells for the ethanol treatment already contain about 10-20 Hsp104 foci, compared to around 5 foci per cell in the control for heat shock.

We thank the reviewer for raising this point and have repeated the assay with a different strain (DPY1561).  And as shown in Figure 1E, have confirmed that the control samples have similar number of foci.  

(2) In the same Figure 1E, is the P-value relative to the control or the same time point in the other treatment? A comparison across treatments would be necessary to support the claim in lines 168-171 of the text.

The statistical analysis (Mann Whitney test) was performed by comparing each stress timepoint to the no stress control. We clarify this in the figure legend. 

(3) In Figure 1D, the heat-shock condition shows the same cells that are used in the control, but the cells in the ethanol-shock condition are different. This is a bit visually misleading compared to the experimental setup shown in panel 1C. The authors could show the control cells for the ethanol condition as well.

We thank the reviewer for this excellent suggestion and have added the 0 min image for the ethanol stress conditions.

(4) In Figure 7B adding images at 60min would help underscore the point that the condensates are stable in ethanol shocked cells.

We appreciate this suggestion as well and have included a 60 min timepoint for both stresses (Figure 8B). 

Reviewer #2:

(1) Line 113: Has it not been established that yeast Hsf1 is constitutively trimeric?

In yeast, only a fraction of Hsf1 is thought to be constitutively trimeric and it is this species that binds high-affinity HSEs even under non-stressful conditions (Giardina & Lis, 1995; Pincus et al., 2018). We have added this clarification to the text (lines 121-123). 

(2) Ethanol can precipitate proteins, especially in rich media like YPD. Did the authors notice any protein precipitation? If yes, how do they account for effects due to nutrient loss by precipitation?

This is an interesting point, but we did not notice any precipitates in either rich or synthetic liquid media containing 8.5% (v/v) ethanol for any of the time points used in the experiments.

(3) Figure 3: The figure appears incomplete. Can enhancer, promoter, coding region, and 3'UTR be shown consistently for all genes examined?

In response to this point, we have simplified this figure (new Fig. 4) by uniform presentation of factor occupancy at enhancer, promoter, and coding region loci for all but one of the genes evaluated. For HSP12 (330 bp), we were unable to distinguish promoter from coding region since the average sonicated chromatin fragment obtained using a Bioruptor is ~300 bp. Therefore, we evaluated only the HSP12 coding region for Pol II and histone H3 occupancy. 

(4) Figure 4: The comparison between heat shock at 2.5 min and ethanol stress at later points is puzzling. Why not use consistent time points as in Fig. 3?

Time points for the two stresses examined in this figure (new Fig. 5) were selected to represent times of peak intergenic interaction between HSR genes. These times were derived from our earlier analysis of 3C interactions during a heat shock time course (Figs. 5, 6 of Chowdhary et al., 2017) and ES data presented in this study, including Fig. 4 (Pol II ChIP time course) and Fig. 6 (3C time course). Data presented in Figs. 5 and 6 are consistent with the notion that intergenic interactions in cells subjected to ethanol stress are delayed relative to those observed in heat shocked cells, peaking in most cases at ~10 min (vs. ~2.5 min for heat stress (Chowdhary et al., 2017)).  

(5) Figure 5: Fig. 5B top panel seems to show color inconsistencies for bars at 0 and 120 min. Also, the xaxis on the top left panel seems to have a typo; should it read "10," not "0?"

We thank the reviewer for the observation. We changed the graphs in new Figure 6 to display the same color for all time points.  We also fixed the typo. 

(6) Line 302: The evidence presented supports maximal mRNA levels, but the claim of "maximal transcription" requires support from nascent RNA analysis.

We agree that RT-qPCR measures mRNA abundance, not nascent transcription. We have changed the text to refer to “transcript levels” where pertinent (lines 301-302; 1331-1332).

(7) How long do loci remain coalescent during heat shock versus ethanol stress? Both 3C and imaging analyses do not differentiate between frequency and duration, which seems essential for understanding interaction dynamics.

We thank the reviewer for this excellent question. In new Fig. 7D,E (data drawn from Fig. 6 – fig. suppl. 1), HSR gene coalescence detected in single cells over a HS or ES time course is charted.  Interpretable data exist for a small number of cells. Moreover, for both HS and ES states, in certain cells coalescence between the representative Hsf1 target genes HSP104 and HSP12 dissolves and then reappears. With this caveat in mind, the data suggest that HSP104-HSP12 coalescence can last at least 15 min in HS cells and up to 30 min in ES cells. We have not emphasized this point in the manuscript since a far more comprehensive analysis – beyond the scope of this study – is required.

(8) For longer analyses, how do the authors accommodate potential ethanol concentration changes due to evaporation?

For liquid cultures, we relied on maintaining minimal changes in the vapor pressure within the experimental vessel; to facilitate that, flasks were tightly covered to minimize evaporation and temperature was kept at 25°C. For most molecular analyses (RT-qPCR, ChIP, 3C), we confined our analysis to the first 60 min. For microscopy, the samples were encased within a concave slide, covered by a coverslip, as illustrated below. In addition, to tightly seal the coverslip on the slide we used petrolatum.  This arrangement minimized evaporation.

Author response image 2.

(9) Figure 9: This legend seems to have an incomplete sentence: "(represented using ...)."

We have substituted an entirely new model in this revised manuscript (new Figure 10) that omits the use of an ellipsis. (We had used it to symbolize a delay in the appearance of HSR gene transcription in ES cells.)

References  

Alkaabi, K. M., Yafea, A., & Ashraf, S. S. (2005). Effect of pH on thermal- and chemical-induced denaturation of GFP. Applied Biochemistry and Biotechnology, 126(2), 149–156. https://doi.org/10.1385/ABAB:126:2:149

Chowdhary, S., Kainth, A. S., & Gross, D. S. (2017). Heat Shock Protein Genes Undergo Dynamic Alteration in Their Three-Dimensional Structure and Genome Organization in Response to Thermal Stress. Molecular and Cellular Biology, 37(24), 1–23. https://doi.org/10.1128/mcb.00292-17

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eLife assessment

This is a valuable contribution to our understanding of how different cell stressors (ethanol or heat-shock) elicit unique responses at the genomic and topographical level under the regulation of yeast transcription factor Hsf1, providing solid evidence documenting the temporal coupling (or lack thereof) between Hsf1 aggregation and long-range communication among co-regulated heat-shock loci versus chromatin remodeling and transcriptional activation. A particular strength is the combination of genomic and imaging-based experimental approaches applied to genetically engineered in vivo systems.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Significance:

Rubio et al. study the behavior of the transcription factor Hsf1 under ethanol stress, examining its distribution within the nucleus and the coalescence of heat shock response genes in budding yeast. In comparison to the heat shock response, the response to ethanol stress shows similar gene coalescence and Hsf1 binding. However, there is a notable delay in the transcriptional response to ethanol, and a disconnect between it and the appearance of irreversible Hsf1 condensates/puncta, highlighting important differences in how Hsf1 responds to these two related but distinct environmental stresses.

Overview and general concerns (from the original review):

The authors studied how yeast responds to ethanol stress (8.5%) and compared it to the heat shock response (from 25{degree sign}C to 39{degree sign}C). They observed a more gradual increase in the expression of heat shock response (HSR) genes during ethanol stress compared to heat shock. Additionally, the recruitment of Hsf1 and Pol II to HSR genes, and the inter- and intrachromosomal interactions among these genes, showed slower kinetics under ethanol stress. They attribute the delay in transcriptional response to chromatin compaction induced by ethanol. Despite this delay, these interactions persisted longer. Hsf1 clusters, previously documented during the heat shock response, were also observed during ethanol stress and persisted for an extended period. The conditional degradation of Hsf1 and Rpb1 eliminated most inter- and intrachromosomal interactions for heat shock responsive genes in both ethanol stress and heat shock conditions, indicating the importance of these factors for long distance interactions between HSR genes. Overall, this manuscript provides novel insights into the differential behavior of HSR genes under different stress conditions. This contributes to the broader understanding of how different stressors might elicit unique responses at the genomic and topographical level under the regulation of transcription factor Hsf1.

The central finding of the study highlights the different dynamics of Hsf1, Pol II, and gene organization in response to heat shock versus ethanol stress. However, one important limitation to consider is that the two chosen conditions may not be directly comparable. For a balanced assessment, the authors should ideally expose yeast to various ethanol concentrations and different heat shock temperatures, ensuring the observed differences stem from the nature of the stressor rather than suboptimal stress intensity. At the very least, an additional single ethanol concentration point on each side of 8.5% should be investigated to ensure that 8.5% is near the optimum. In fact, comparing the number of Hsp104 foci in the two conditions in Fig. 1E and F suggests that the yeast is likely experiencing different intensities of stress for the chosen heat shock condition and ethanol concentration used in this study.

A second significant concern is the use of the term "Hsf1 condensate". Chowdhary et al.'s 2022 Molecular Cell study highlighted an inhomogeneous distribution and rapid dynamics of Hsf1 clustering upon heat shock, with sensitivity to 1,6-hexandiol, which is interpreted as evidence for condensation by LLPS. But this interpretation has been criticized severely by McSwiggen at al. Genes Dev 2019 and Mussacchio EMBO J 2022. It is important to mention that 1,6-hexandiol is known to affect chromatin organization (Itoh et al. Life Science Alliance 2021). Describing such clusters as 'condensates' without further experimental evidence is premature. I encourage authors to settle on their neutral term 'puncta' which they use interchangeably with 'condensate' so as not to confuse the reader. The dynamic binding and unbinding of the low-abundance Hsf1 at coalescent chromatin target sites might explain the liquid-like properties of these clusters without the need for invoking the phase-separation hypothesis. While Hsf1 clusters exhibit features consistent with phase-separated condensates, other equally plausible alternative mechanisms, such as dynamic site-specific interactions (Musacchio, EMBO J, 2022), should also be considered. This is best left for the discussion where the underlying mechanism for puncta formation can be addressed.

Comments on revised version:

The authors have addressed the majority of my comments effectively. The new Sis1 experiment provides a clear illustration of a distinctive response to ethanol and heat. This work offers a comprehensive perspective on Hsf1 in stress response from multiple angles. I have two additional comments to improve the paper without re-review:

(Original point #3) Could the authors clarify the differences between DPY1561 and the original strain used? There appears to be missing statistical analysis for Figure 1E at the bottom.

(Original point #4) In the new Figure 7F, '% transcription' and '% coalescence' are presented. My understanding is that Figures 7D and 7E aim to demonstrate the correlation between HSP104 transcription (a continuous variable) and HSP104-HSP12 coalescence (a binary variable) at the single-cell level. However, averaging the data across cells masks individual variations and potential anti-correlations. The authors could explore statistical methods that handle correlations between a continuous variable and a binary variable. Alternatively, consider converting 'HSP104 transcription' to a binary variable and then performing a chi-square test to assess the association.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

This is an interesting manuscript that builds off of this group's previous work focused on the interface between Hsf1, heat shock protein (HSP) mRNA production, and 3D genome topology. Here the group subjects the yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae to either heat stress (HS) or ethanol stress (ES) and examines Hsf1 and Pol II chromatin binding, Histone occupancy, Hsf1 condensates, HSP gene coalescence (by 3C and live cell imaging), and HSP mRNA expression (by RT-qPCR and live cell imaging). The manuscript is well written, and the experiments seem well done, and generally rigorous, with orthogonal approaches performed to support conclusions. The main findings are that both HS and ES result in Hsf1/Pol II-dependent intergenic interactions, along with formation of Hsf1 condensates. Yet, while HS results in rapid and strong induction of HSP gene expression and Hsf1 condensate resolution, ES result in slow and weak induction of HSP gene expression without Hsf1 condensate resolution. Thus, the conclusion is somewhat phenomenological - that the same transcription factor can drive distinct transcription, topologic, and phase-separation behavior in response to different types of stress. While identifying a mechanistic basis for these results would be a tough task perhaps beyond the scope of this study, it would nevertheless be helpful to place these results in context with a series of other studies demonstrating across various organisms showing Hsf1 driving distinct activities dependent on the context of activation. Perhaps even more importantly, this work left out PMID: 32015439 which is particularly relevant considering that it shows that it is human HSF1 condensate resolution rather than simple condensate formation that is associated with HSF1 transcriptional activity - which are similar to the findings here with this particular dose of HS resulting in resolution and high transcriptional activity versus ES resulting in resolution failure and lower activity. It is also worth noting that the stresses themselves are quite different - ethanol can be used as a carbon source and so beyond inducing proteotoxic stress, the yeast are presumably adapting to this distinct metabolic state. Basically, it is not clear whether these differences are due to the dose of stress, versus we are looking at an early timepoint as ES initiates a genome-wide chromatin restructuring and gene expression reprogramming that goes beyond a response to proteotoxic stress. This reviewer is not suggesting a barrage of new experiments, but perhaps discussion points to contextualize results.

Comments on latest version:

The authors have addressed my concerns.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

(1) Significance of the findings:

Cell-to-cell communication is essential for higher functions in bacterial biofilms. Electrical signals have proven effective in transmitting signals across biofilms. These signals are then used to coordinate cellular metabolisms or to increase antibiotic tolerance. Here, the authors have reported for the first time coordinated oscillation of membrane potential in E. coli biofilms that may have a functional role in photoprotection.

(2) Strengths of the manuscript:

- The authors report original data.<br /> - For the first time, they showed that coordinated oscillations in membrane potential occur in E. Coli biofilms.<br /> - The authors revealed a complex two-phase dynamic involving distinct molecular response mechanisms.<br /> - The authors developed two rigorous models inspired by 1) Hodgkin-Huxley model for the temporal dynamics of membrane potential and 2) Fire-Diffuse-Fire model for the propagation of the electric signal.<br /> - Since its discovery by comparative genomics, the Kch ion channel has not been associated with any specific phenotype in E. coli. Here, the authors proposed a functional role for the putative gated-voltage-gated K+ ion channel (Kch channel) : enhancing survival under photo-toxic conditions.

(3) Weakness:

- Contrarily to what is stated in the abstract, the group of B. Maier has already reported collective electrical oscillations in the Gram-negative bacterium Neisseria gonorrhoeae (Hennes et al., PLoS Biol, 2023).<br /> - The data presented in the manuscript are not sufficient to conclude on the photo-protective role of the Kch channel. The authors should perform the appropriate control experiments related to Fig4D,E, i.e. reproduce these experiments without ThT to rule out possible photo-conversion effects on ThT that would modify its toxicity. In addition, it looks like the data reported on Fig 4E are extracted from Fig 4D. If this is indeed the case, it would be more conclusive to report the percentage of PI-positive cells in the population for each condition. This percentage should be calculated independently for each replicate. The authors should then report the average value and standard deviation of the percentage of dead cells for each condition.<br /> - Although Fig 4A clearly shows that light stimulation has an influence on the dynamics of ThT signal in the biofilm, it is important to rule out possible contributions of other environmental variations that occur when the flow is stopped at the onset of light stimulation. I understand that for technical reasons, the flow of fresh medium must be stopped for the sake of imaging. Therefore, I suggest to perform control experiments consisting in stopping the flow at different time intervals before image acquisition (30min or 1h before). If there is no significant contribution from environmental variations due to medium perfusion arrest, the dynamics of ThT signal must be unchanged regardless of the delay between flow stop and the start of light stimulation.<br /> - To precise the role of K+ in the habituation response, I suggest using the ionophore valinomycin at sub-inhibitory concentrations (5 or 10µM). It should abolish the habituation response. In addition, the Kch complementation experiment exhibits a sharp drop after the first peak but on a single point. It would be more convincing to increase the temporal resolution (1min->10s) to show that there are indeed a first and a second peak. Finally, the high concentration (100µM) of CCCP used in this study completely inhibits cell activity. Therefore, it is not surprising that no ThT dynamics was observed upon light stimulation at such concentration of CCCP.<br /> - Since TMRM signal exhibits a linear increase after the first response peak (Supp Fig1D), I recommend to mitigate the statement at line 78.<br /> - Electrical signal propagation is an important aspect of the manuscript. However, a detailed quantitative analysis of the spatial dynamics within the biofilm is lacking. At minima, I recommend to plot the spatio-temporal diagram of ThT intensity profile averaged along the azimuthal direction in the biofilm. In addition, it is unclear if the electrical signal propagates within the biofilm during the second peak regime, which is mediated by the Kch channel: I have plotted the spatio-temporal diagram for Video S3 and no electrical propagation is evident at the second peak. In addition, the authors should provide technical details of how R^2(t) is measured in the first regime (Fig 7E).<br /> - In the series of images presented in supplementary Figure 4A, no wavefront is apparent. Although the microscopy technics used in this figure differs from other images (like in Fig2), the wavefront should be still present. In addition, there is no second peak in confocal images as well (Supp Fig4B) .<br /> - Many important technical details are missing (e.g. biofilm size, R^2, curvature and 445nm irradiance measurements). The description of how these quantitates are measured should be detailed in the Material & Methods section.<br /> - Fig 5C: The curve in Fig 5D seems to correspond to the biofilm case. Since the model is made for single cells, the curve obtained by the model should be compared with the average curve presented in Fig 1B (i.e. single cell experiments).<br /> - For clarity, I suggest to indicate on the panels if the experiments concern single cell or biofilm experiments. Finally, please provide bright-field images associated to ThT images to locate bacteria.<br /> - In Fig 7B, the plateau is higher in the simulations than in the biofilm experiments. The authors should add a comment in the paper to explain this discrepancy.

eLife assessment

This potentially valuable study presents claims of evidence for coordinated membrane potential oscillations in E. coli biofilms that can be linked to a putative K+ channel and that may serve to enhance photo-protection. The finding of waves of membrane potential would be of interest to a wide audience from molecular biology to microbiology and physical biology. Unfortunately, a major issue is that it is unclear whether the dye used can act as a Nernstian membrane potential dye in E. coli. The arguments of the authors, who largely ignore previously published contradictory evidence, are inadequate in that they do not engage with the fact that the dye behaves in their hands differently than in the hands of others. In addition, the lack of proper validation of the experimental method including key control experiments leaves the evidence incomplete.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

The authors use ThT dye as a Nernstian potential dye in E. coli. Quantitative measurements of membrane potential using any cationic indicator dye are based on the equilibration of the dye across the membrane according to Boltzmann's law.

Ideally, the dye should have high membrane permeability to ensure rapid equilibration. Others have demonstrated that E.coli cells in the presence of ThT do not load unless there is blue light present, that the loading profile does not look like it is expected for a cationic Nernstian dye. They also show that the loading profile of the dye is different for E.coli cells deleted for the TolC pump. I, therefore, objected to interpreting the signal from the ThT as a Vm signal when used in E.coli. Nothing the authors have said has suggested that I should be changing this assessment.

Specifically, the authors responded to my concerns as follows:

(1) 'We are aware of this study, but believe it to be scientifically flawed. We do not cite the article because we do not think it is a particularly useful contribution to the literature.' This seems to go against ethical practices when it comes to scientific literature citations. If the authors identified work that handles the same topic they do, which they believe is scientifically flawed, the discussion to reflect that should be included.

(2)'The Pilizota group invokes some elaborate artefacts to explain the lack of agreement with a simple Nernstian battery model. The model is incorrect not the fluorophore.'<br /> It seems the authors object to the basic principle behind the usage of Nernstian dyes. If the authors wish to use ThT according to some other model, and not as a Nernstian indicator, they need to explain and develop that model. Instead, they state 'ThT is a Nernstian voltage indicator' in their manuscript and expect the dye to behave like a passive voltage indicator throughout it.

(3)'We think the proton effect is a million times weaker than that due to potassium i.e. 0.2 M K+<br /> versus 10-7 M H+. We can comfortably neglect the influx of H+ in our experiments.'<br /> I agree with this statement by the authors. At near-neutral extracellular pH, E.coli keeps near-neutral intracellular pH, and the contribution from the chemical concentration gradient to the electrochemical potential of protons is negligible. The main contribution is from the membrane potential. However, this has nothing to do with the criticism to which this is the response of the authors. The criticism is that ThT has been observed not to permeate the cell without blue light. The blue light has been observed to influence the electrochemical potential of protons (and given that at near-neutral intracellular and extracellular pH this is mostly the membrane potential, as authors note themselves, we are talking about Vm effectively). Thus, two things are happening when one is loading the ThT, not just expected equilibration but also lowering of membrane potential. The electrochemical potential of protons is coupled via the membrane potential to all the other electrochemical potentials of ions, including the mentioned K+.

(4) 'The vast majority of cells continue to be viable. We do not think membrane damage is dominating.' In response to the question on how the authors demonstrated TMRM loading and in which conditions (and while reminding them that TMRM loading profile in E.coli has been demonstrated in Potassium Phosphate buffer). The request was to demonstrate TMRM loading profile in their condition as well as to show that it does not depend on light. Cells could still be viable, as membrane permeabilisation with light is gradual, but the loading of ThT dye is no longer based on simple electrochemical potential (of the dye) equilibration.

(5) On the comment on the action of CCCP with references included, authors include a comment that consists of phrases like 'our understanding of the literature' with no citations of such literature. Difficult to comment further without references.

(6) 'Shielding would provide the reverse effect, since hyperpolarization begins in the dense centres of the biofilms. For the initial 2 hours the cells receive negligible blue light. Neither of the referee's comments thus seem tenable.'<br /> The authors have misunderstood my comment. I am not advocating shielding (I agree that this is not it) but stating that this is not the only other explanation for what they see (apart from electrical signaling). The other I proposed is that the membrane has changed in composition and/or the effective light power the cells can tolerate. The authors comment only on the light power (not convincingly though, giving the number for that power would be more appropriate), not on the possible changes in the membrane permeability.

(7) 'The work that TolC provides a possible passive pathway for ThT to leave cells seems slightly niche. It just demonstrates another mechanism for the cells to equilibrate the concentrations of ThT in a Nernstian manner i.e. driven by the membrane voltage.' I am not sure what the authors mean by another mechanism. The mechanism of action of a Nernstian dye is passive equilibration according to the electrochemical potential (i.e. until the electrochemical potential of the dye is 0).

(8) 'In the 70 years since Hodgkin and Huxley first presented their model, a huge number of similar models have been proposed to describe cellular electrophysiology. We are not being hyperbolic when we state that the HH models for excitable cells are like the Schrödinger<br /> equation for molecules. We carefully adapted our HH model to reflect the currently understood electrophysiology of E. coli.'

I gave a very concrete comment on the fact that in the HH model conductivity and leakage are as they are because this was explicitly measured. The authors state that they have carefully adopted their model based on what is currently understood for E.coli electrophysiology. It is not clear how. HH uses gKn^4 based on Figure2 here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1392413/pdf/jphysiol01442-0106.pdf, i.e. measured rise and fall of potassium conductance on msec time scales. I looked at the citation the authors have given and found a resistance of an entire biofilm of a given strain at 3 applied voltages. So why n^4 based on that? Why does unknown current have gqz^4 form? Sodium conductance in HH is described by m^3hgNa (again based on detailed conductance measurements), so why unknown current in E.coli by gQz^4? Why leakage is in the form that it is, based on what measurement?

Throughout their responses, the authors seem to think that collapsing the electrochemical gradient of protons is all about protons, and this is not the case. At near neutral inside and outside pH, the electrochemical potential of protons is simply membrane voltage. And membrane voltage acts on all ions in the cell.

Authors have started their response to concrete comments on the usage of ThT dye with comments on papers from my group that are not all directly relevant to this publication. I understand that their intention is to discredit a reviewer but given that my role here is to review this manuscript, I will only address their comments to the publications/part of publications that are relevant to this manuscript and mention what is not relevant.

Publications in the order these were commented on.

(1) In a comment on the paper that describes the usage of ThT dye as a Nernstian dye authors seem to talk about a model of an entire active cell.<br /> 'Huge oscillations occur in the membrane potentials of E. coli that cannot be described by the SNB model.' The two have nothing to do with each other. Nernstian dye equilibrates according to its electrochemical potential. Once that happens it can measure the potential (under the assumption that not too much dye has entered and thus lowered too much the membrane potential under measurement). The time scale of that is important, and the dye can only measure processes that are slower than that equilibration. If one wants to use a dye that acts under a different model, first that needs to be developed, and then coupled to any other active cell model.

(2) The part of this paper that is relevant is simply the usage of TMRM dye. It is used as Nernstian dye, so all the above said applies. The rest is a study of flagellar motor.

(3) The authors seem to not understand that the electrochemical potential of protons is coupled to the electrochemical potentials of all other ions, via the membrane potential. In the manuscript authors talk about, PMF~Vm, as DeltapH~0. Other than that this publication is not relevant to their current manuscript.

(4) The manuscript in fact states precisely that PMF cannot be generated by protons only and some other ions need to be moved out for the purpose. In near neutral environment it stated that these need to be cations (K+ e.g.). The model used in this manuscript is a pump-leak model. Neither is relevant for the usage of ThT dye.

Further comments include, along the lines of:

'The editors stress the main issue raised was a single referee questioning the use of ThT as an indicator of membrane potential. We are well aware of the articles by the Pilizota group and we believe them to be scientifically flawed. The authors assume there are no voltage-gated ion channels in E. coli and then attempt to explain motility data based on a simple Nernstian battery model (they assume E. coli are unexcitable<br /> matter). This in turn leads them to conclude the membrane dye ThT is faulty, when in fact it is a problem with their simple battery model.'

The only assumption made when using a cationic Nernstian dye is that it equilibrates passively across the membrane according to its electrochemical potential. As it does that, it does lower the membrane potential, which is why as little as possible is added so that this is negligible. The equilibration should be as fast as possible, but at the very least it should be known, as no change in membrane potential can be measured that is faster than that.

This behaviour should be orthogonal to what the cell is doing, it is a probe after all. If the cell is excitable, a Nernstian dye can be used, as long as it's still passively equilibrating and doing so faster than any changes in membrane potential due to excitations of the cells. There are absolutely no assumptions made on the active system that is about to be measured by this expected behaviour of a Nernstian dye. And there shouldn't be, it is a probe. If one wants to use a dye that is not purely Nernstian that behaviour needs to be described and a model proposed. As far as I can find, authors do no such thing.

There is a comment on the use of a flagellar motor as a readout of PMF, stating that the motor can be stopped by YcgR citing the work from 2023. Indeed, there is a range of references such as https://doi.org/10.1016/j.molcel.2010.03.001 that demonstrate this (from around 2000-2010 as far as I am aware). The timescale of such slowdown is hours (see here Figure 5 https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(10)00019-X.pdf). Needless to say, the flagellar motor when used as a probe, needs to stay that in the conditions used. Thus one should always be on the lookout at any other such proteins that could slow it down and we are not aware of yet or make the speed no longer proportional to the PMF. In the papers my group uses the motor the changes are fast, often reversible, and in the observation window of 30min. They are also the same with DeltaYcgR strain, which we have not included as it seemed given the time scales it's obvious, but certainly can in the future (as well as stay vigilant on any conditions that would render the motor a no longer suitable probe for PMF).

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

This manuscript by Akabuogu et al. investigates membrane potential dynamics in E. coli. Membrane potential fluctuations have been observed in bacteria by several research groups in recent years, including in the context of bacterial biofilms where they have been proposed to play a role in cellular communication. Here, these authors investigate membrane potential in E. coli, in both single cells and biofilms. I have reviewed the revised manuscript provided by the authors, as well as their responses to the initial reviews; my opinion about the manuscript is largely unchanged. I have focused my public review on those issues that I believe to be most pressing, with additional comments included in the review to authors. Although these authors are working in an exciting research area, the evidence they provide for their claims is inadequate, and several key control experiments are still missing. In some cases, the authors allude to potentially relevant data in their responses to the initial reviews, but unfortunately these data are not shown. Furthermore, I cannot identify any traveling wavefronts in the data included in this manuscript. In addition to the challenges associated with the use of Thioflavin-T (ThT) raised by the second reviewer, these caveats make the work presented in this manuscript difficult to interpret.

First, some of the key experiments presented in the paper lack required controls:

(1) This paper asserts that the observed ThT fluorescence dynamics are induced by blue light. This is a fundamental claim in the paper, since the authors go on to argue that these dynamics are part of a blue light response. This claim must be supported by the appropriate negative control experiment measuring ThT fluorescence dynamics in the absence of blue light- if this idea is correct, these dynamics should not be observed in the absence of blue light exposure. If this experiment cannot be performed with ThT since blue light is used for its excitation, TMRM can be used instead.

In response to this, the authors wrote that "the fluorescent baseline is too weak to measure cleanly in this experiment." If they observe no ThT signal above noise in their time lapse data in the absence of blue light, this should be reported in the manuscript- this would be a satisfactory negative control. They then wrote that "It appears the collective response of all the bacteria hyperpolarization at the same time appears to dominate the signal." I am not sure what they mean by this- perhaps that ThT fluorescence changes strongly only in response to blue light? This is a fundamental control for this experiment that ought to be presented to the reader.

(2) The authors claim that a ∆kch mutant is more susceptible to blue light stress, as evidenced by PI staining. The premise that the cells are mounting a protective response to blue light via these channels rests on this claim. However, they do not perform the negative control experiment, conducting PI staining for WT the ∆kch mutant in the absence of blue light. In the absence of this control it is not possible to rule out effects of the ∆kch mutation on overall viability and/or PI uptake. The authors do include a growth curve for comparison, but planktonic growth is a very different context than surface-attached biofilm growth. Additionally, the ∆kch mutation may have impacts on PI permeability specifically that are not addressed by a growth curve. The negative control experiment is of key importance here.

Second, the ideas presented in this manuscript rely entirely on analysis of ThT fluorescence data, specifically a time course of cellular fluorescence following blue light treatment. However, alternate explanations for and potential confounders of the observed dynamics are not sufficiently addressed:

(1) Bacterial cells are autofluorescent, and this fluorescence can change significantly in response to stress (e.g. blue light exposure). To characterize and/or rule out autofluorescence contributions to the measurement, the authors should present time lapse fluorescence traces of unstained cells for comparison, acquired under the same imaging conditions in both wild type and ∆kch mutant cells. In their response to reviewers the authors suggested that they have conducted this experiment and found that the autofluorescence contribution is negligible, which is good, but these data should be included in the manuscript along with a description of how these controls were conducted.

(2) Similarly, in my initial review I raised a concern about the possible contributions of photobleaching to the observed fluorescence dynamics. This is particularly relevant for the interpretation of the experiment in which catalase appears to attenuate the decay of the ThT signal; this attenuation could alternatively be due to catalase decreasing ThT photobleaching. In their response, the authors indicated that photobleaching is negligible, which would be good, but they do not share any evidence to support this claim. Photobleaching can be assessed in this experiment by varying the light dosage (illumination power, frequency, and/or duration) and confirming that the observed fluorescence dynamics are unaffected.

Third, the paper claims in two instances that there are propagating waves of ThT fluorescence that move through biofilms, but I do not observe these waves in any case:

(1) The first wavefront claim relates to small cell clusters, in Fig. 2A and Video S2 and S3 (with Fig. 2A and Video S2 showing the same biofilm.) I simply do not see any evidence of propagation in either case- rather, all cells get brighter and dimmer in tandem. I downloaded and analyzed Video S3 in several ways (plotting intensity profiles for different regions at different distances from the cluster center, drawing a kymograph across the cluster, etc.) and in no case did I see any evidence of a propagating wavefront. (I attempted this same analysis on the biofilm shown in Fig. 2A and Video S2 with similar results, but the images shown in the figure panels and especially the video are still both so saturated that the quantification is difficult to interpret.) If there is evidence for wavefronts, it should be demonstrated explicitly by analysis of several clusters. For example, a figure of time-to-peak vs. position in the cluster demonstrating a propagating wave would satisfy this. Currently, I do not see any wavefronts in this data.

(2) The other wavefront claim relates to biofilms, and the relevant data is presented in Fig. S4 (and I believe also in what is now Video S8, but no supplemental video legends are provided, and this video is not cited in text.) As before, I cannot discern any wavefronts in the image and video provided; Reviewer 1 was also not able to detect wave propagation in this video by kymograph. Some mean squared displacements are shown in Fig. 7. As before, the methods for how these were obtained are not clearly documented either in this manuscript or in the BioRXiv preprint linked in the initial response to reviewers, and since wavefronts are not evident in the video it is hard to understand what is being measured here- radial distance from where? (The methods section mentions radial distance from the substrate, this should mean Z position above the imaging surface, and no wavefronts are evident in Z in the figure panels or movie.) Thus, clear demonstration of these wavefronts is still missing here as well.

Fourth, I have some specific questions about the study of blue light stress and the use of PI as a cell viability indicator:

(1) The logic of this paper includes the premise that blue light exposure is a stressor under the experimental conditions employed in the paper. Although it is of course generally true that blue light can be damaging to bacteria, this is dependent on light power and dosage. The control I recommended above, staining cells with PI in the presence and absence of blue light, will also allow the authors to confirm that this blue light treatment is indeed a stressor- the PI staining would be expected to increase in the presence of blue light if this is so.

(2) The presence of ThT may complicate the study of the blue light stress response, since ThT enhances the photodynamic effects of blue light in E. coli (Bondia et al. 2021 Chemical Communications). The authors could investigate ThT toxicity under these conditions by staining cells with PI after exposing them to blue light with or without ThT staining.

(3) In my initial review, I wrote the following: "In Figures 4D - E, the interpretation of this experiment can be confounded by the fact that PI uptake can sometimes be seen in bacterial cells with high membrane potential (Kirchhoff & Cypionka 2017 J Microbial Methods); the interpretation is that high membrane potential can lead to increased PI permeability. Because the membrane potential is largely higher throughout blue light treatment in the ∆kch mutant (Fig. 3[BC]), this complicates the interpretation of this experiment." In their response, the authors suggested that these results are not relevant in this case because "In our experiment methodology, cell death was not forced on the cells by introducing an extra burden or via anoxia." However, the logic of the paper is that the cells are in fact dying due to an imposed external stressor, which presumably also confers an increased burden as the cells try to deal with the stress. Instead, the authors should simply use a parallel method to confirm the results of PI staining. For example, the experiment could be repeated with other stains, or the viability of blue light-treated cells could be addressed more directly by outgrowth or colony-forming unit assays.

The CFU assay suggested above has the additional advantage that it can also be performed on planktonic cells in liquid culture that are exposed to blue light. If, as the paper suggests, a protective response to blue light is being coordinated at the biofilm level by these membrane potential fluctuations, the WT strain might be expected to lose its survival advantage vs. the ∆kch mutant in the absence of a biofilm.

Fifth, in several cases the data are presented in a way that are difficult to interpret, or the paper makes claims that are different to observe in the data:

(1) The authors suggest that the ThT and TMRM traces presented in Fig. S1D have similar shapes, but this is not obvious to me- the TMRM curve has very little decrease after the initial peak and only a modest, gradual rise thereafter. The authors suggest that this is due to increased TMRM photobleaching, but I would expect that photobleaching should exacerbate the signal decrease after the initial peak. Since this figure is used to support the use of ThT as a membrane potential indicator, and since this is the only alternative measurement of membrane potential presented in text, the authors should discuss this discrepancy in more detail.

(2) The comparison of single cells to microcolonies presented in figures 1B and D still needs revision:

First, both reviewer 1 and I commented in our initial reviews that the ThT traces, here and elsewhere, should not be normalized- this will help with the interpretation of some of the claims throughout the manuscript.

Second, the way these figures are shown with all traces overlaid at full opacity makes it very difficult to see what is being compared. Since the point of the comparison is the time to first peak (and the standard deviation thereof), histograms of the distributions of time to first peak in both cases should be plotted as a separate figure panel.<br /> Third, statistical significance tests ought to be used to evaluate the statistical strength of the comparisons between these curves. The authors compare both means and standard deviations of the time to first peak, and there are appropriate statistical tests for both types of comparisons.

(3) The authors claim that the curve shown in Fig. S4B is similar to the simulation result shown in Fig. 7B. I remain unconvinced that this is so, particularly with respect to the kinetics of the second peak- at least it seems to me that the differences should be acknowledged and discussed. In any case, the best thing to do would be to move Fig. S4B to the main text alongside Fig. 7B so that the readers can make the comparison more easily.

(4) As I wrote in my first review, in the discussion of voltage-gated calcium channels, the authors refer to "spiking events", but these are not obvious in Figure S3E. Although the fluorescence intensity changes over time, these fluctuations cannot be distinguished from measurement noise. A no-light control could help clarify this.

(5) In the lower irradiance conditions in Fig. 4A, the ThT dynamics are slower overall, and it looks like the ThT intensity is beginning to rise at the end of the measurement. The authors write that no second peak is observed below an irradiance threshold of 15.99 µW/mm2. However, could a more prominent second peak be observed in these cases if the measurement time was extended? Additionally, the end of these curves looks similar to the curve in Fig. S4B, in which the authors write that the slow rise is evidence of the presence of a second peak, in contrast to their interpretation here.

Additional considerations:

(1) The analysis and interpretation of the first peak, and particularly of the time-to-fire data is challenging throughout the manuscript the time resolution of the data set is quite limited. It seems that a large proportion of cells have already fired after a single acquisition frame. It would be ideal to increase the time resolution on this measurement to improve precision. This could be done by imaging more quickly, but that would perhaps necessitate more blue light exposure; an alternative is to do this experiment under lower blue light irradiance where the first spike time is increased (Figure 4A).

(2) The authors suggest in the manuscript that "E. coli biofilms use electrical signalling to coordinate long-range responses to light stress." In addition to the technical caveats discussed above, I am missing a discussion about what these responses might be. What constitutes a long-range response to light stress, and are there known examples of such responses in bacteria?

(3) The presence of long-range blue light responses can also be interrogated experimentally, for example, by repeating the Live/Dead experiment in planktonic culture or the single-cell condition. If the protection from blue light specifically emerges due to coordinated activity of the biofilm, the ∆kch mutant would not be expected to show a change in Live/Dead staining in non-biofilm conditions. The CFU experiment I mentioned above could also implicate coordinated long-range responses specifically, if biofilms and liquid culture experiments can be compared (although I know that recovering cells from biofilms is challenging.)

4. At the end of the results section, the authors suggest a critical biofilm size of only 4 μm for wavefront propagation (not much larger than a single cell!) The authors show responses for various biofilm sizes in Fig. 2C, but these are all substantially larger (and this figure also does not contain wavefront information.) Are there data for cell clusters above and below this size that could support this claim more directly?

(5) In Fig. 4C, the overall trajectories of extracellular potassium are indeed similar, but the kinetics of the second peak of potassium are different than those observed by ThT (it rises minutes earlier)- is this consistent with the idea that Kch is responsible for that peak? Additionally, the potassium dynamics also include the first ThT peak- is this surprising given that the Kch channel has no effect on this peak according to the model?

Detailed comments:

Why are Fig. 2A and Video S2 called a microcluster, whereas Video S3, which is smaller, is called a biofilm?

"We observed a spontaneous rapid rise in spikes within cells in the center of the biofilm" (Line 140): What does "spontaneous" mean here?

"This demonstrates that the ion-channel mediated membrane potential dynamics is a light stress relief process.", "E. coli cells employ ion-channel mediated dynamics to manage ROS-induced stress linked to light irradiation." (Line 268 and the second sentence of the Fig. 4F legend): This claim is not well-supported. There are several possible interpretations of the catalase experiment (which should be discussed); this experiment perhaps suggests that ROS impacts membrane potential but does not indicate that these membrane potential fluctuations help the cells respond to blue light stress. The loss of viability in the ∆kch mutant might indicate a link between these membrane potential experiments and viability, but it is hard to interpret without the no light controls I mention above.

"The model also predicts... the external light stress" (Lines 338-341): Please clarify this section. Where does this prediction arise from in the modeling work? Second, I am not sure what is meant by "modulates the light stress" or "keeps the cell dynamics robust to the intensity of external light stress" (especially since the dynamics clearly vary with irradiance, as seen in Figure 4A).

"We hypothesized that E. coli not only modulates the light-induced stress but also handles the increase of the ROS by adjusting the profile of the membrane potential dynamics" (Line 347): I am not sure what "handles the ROS by adjusting the profile of the membrane potential dynamics" means. What is meant by "handling" ROS? Is the hypothesis that membrane potential dynamics themselves are protective against ROS, or that they induce a ROS-protective response downstream, or something else? Later the authors write that changes in the response to ROS in the model agree with the hypothesis, but just showing that ROS impacts the membrane potential does not seem to demonstrate that this has a protective effect against ROS.

"Mechanosensitive ion channels (MS) are vital for the first hyperpolarization event in E. coli." (Line 391): This is misleading- mechanosensitive ion channels totally ablate membrane potential dynamics, they don't have a specific effect on the first hyperpolarization event. The claim that mechanonsensitive ion channels are specifically involved in the first event also appears in the abstract.

Also, the apparent membrane potential is much lower even at the start of the experiment in these mutants (Fig. 6C-D)- is this expected? This seems to imply that these ion channels also have a blue light-independent effect.

Throughout the paper, there are claims that the initial ThT spike is involved in "registering the presence of the light stress" and similar. What is the evidence for this claim?

"We have presented much better quantitative agreement of our model with the propagating wavefronts in E. coli biofilms..." (Line 619): It is not evident to me that the agreement between model and prediction is "much better" in this work than in the cited work (reference 57, Hennes et al. 2023). The model in Figure 4 of ref. 57 seems to capture the key features of their data.

In methods, "Only cells that are hyperpolarized were counted in the experiment as live" (Line 745): what percentage of cells did not hyperpolarize in these experiments?

Some indication of standard deviation (error bars or shading) should be added to all figures where mean traces are plotted.

Video S8 is very confusing- why does the video play first forwards and then backwards? It is easy to misinterpret this as a rise in the intensity at the end of the experiment.

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

Critical synopsis of the articles cited by referee 2:

(1) ‘Generalized workflow for characterization of Nernstian dyes and their effects on bacterial physiology’, L.Mancini et al, Biophysical Journal, 2020, 118, 1, 4-14.

This is the central article used by referee 2 to argue that there are issues with the calibration of ThT for the measurement of membrane potentials. The authors use a simple Nernstian battery (SNB) model and unfortunately it is wrong when voltage-gated ion channels occur. Huge oscillations occur in the membrane potentials of E. coli that cannot be described by the SNB model. Instead a Hodgkin Huxley model is needed, as shown in our eLife manuscript and multiple other studies (see above). Arrhenius kinetics are assumed in the SNB model for pumping with no real evidence and the generalized workflow involves ripping the flagella off the bacteria! The authors construct an elaborate ‘work flow’ to insure their ThT results can be interpreted using their erroneous SNB model over a limited range of parameters.

(2) ‘Non-equivalence of membrane voltage and ion-gradient as driving forces for the bacterial flagellar motor at low load’, C.J.Lo, et al, Biophysical Journal, 2007, 93, 1, 294.

An odd de novo chimeric species is developed using an E. coli  chassis which uses Na+ instead of H+ for the motility of its flagellar motor. It is not clear the relevance to wild type E. coli, due to the massive physiological perturbations involved. A SNB model is using to fit the data over a very limited parameter range with all the concomitant errors.

(3) Single-cell bacterial electrophysiology reveals mechanisms of stress-induced damage’, E.Krasnopeeva, et al, Biophysical Journal, 2019, 116, 2390.

The abstract says ‘PMF defines the physiological state of the cell’. This statement is hyperbolic. An extremely wide range of molecules contribute to the physiological state of a cell. PMF does not even define the electrophysiology of the cell e.g. via the membrane potential. There are 0.2 M of K+ compared with 0.0000001 M of H+ in E. coli, so K+ is arguably a million times more important for the membrane potential than H+ and thus the electrophysiology!

Equation (1) in the manuscript assumes no other ions are exchanged during the experiments other than H+. This is a very bad approximation when voltage-gated potassium ion channels move the majority ion (K+) around!

In our model Figure 4A is better explained by depolarisation due to K+ channels closing than direct irreversible photodamage. Why does the THT fluorescence increase again for the second hyperpolarization event if the THT is supposed to be damaged? It does not make sense.

(4) ‘The proton motive force determines E. coli robustness to extracellular pH’, G.Terradot et al, 2024, preprint.

This article expounds the SNB model once more. It still ignores the voltage-gated ion channels. Furthermore, it ignores the effect of the dominant ion in E. coli, K+. The manuscript is incorrect as a result and I would not recommend publication.

In general, an important problem is being researched i.e. how the membrane potential of E. coli is related to motility, but there are serious flaws in the SNB approach and the experimental methodology appears tenuous.

Answers to specific questions raised by the referees

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

Summary:

Cell-to-cell communication is essential for higher functions in bacterial biofilms. Electrical signals have proven effective in transmitting signals across biofilms. These signals are then used to coordinate cellular metabolisms or to increase antibiotic tolerance. Here, the authors have reported for the first time coordinated oscillation of membrane potential in E. coli biofilms that may have a functional role in photoprotection.

Strengths:

- The authors report original data.

- For the first time, they showed that coordinated oscillations in membrane potential occur in E. Coli biofilms.

- The authors revealed a complex two-phase dynamic involving distinct molecular response mechanisms.

- The authors developed two rigorous models inspired by 1) Hodgkin-Huxley model for the temporal dynamics of membrane potential and 2) Fire-Diffuse-Fire model for the propagation of the electric signal.

- Since its discovery by comparative genomics, the Kch ion channel has not been associated with any specific phenotype in E. coli. Here, the authors proposed a functional role for the putative K+ Kch channel : enhancing survival under photo-toxic conditions.

We thank the referee for their positive evaluations and agree with these statements.

Weaknesses:

- Since the flow of fresh medium is stopped at the beginning of the acquisition, environmental parameters such as pH and RedOx potential are likely to vary significantly during the experiment. It is therefore important to exclude the contributions of these variations to ensure that the electrical response is only induced by light stimulation. Unfortunately, no control experiments were carried out to address this issue.

The electrical responses occur almost instantaneously when the stimulation with blue light begins i.e. it is too fast to be a build of pH. We are not sure what the referee means by Redox potential since it is an attribute of all chemicals that are able to donate/receive electrons. The electrical response to stress appears to be caused by ROS, since when ROS scavengers are added the electrical response is removed i.e. pH plays a very small minority role if any.

- Furthermore, the control parameter of the experiment (light stimulation) is the same as that used to measure the electrical response, i.e. through fluorescence excitation. The use of the PROPS system could solve this problem.

>>We were enthusiastic at the start of the project to use the PROPs system in E. coli as presented by J.M.Krajl et al, ‘Electrical spiking in E. coli probed with a fluorescent voltage-indicating protein’, Science, 2011, 333, 6040, 345. However, the people we contacted in the microbiology community said that it had some technical issues and there have been no subsequent studies using PROPs in bacteria after the initial promising study. The fluorescent protein system recently presented in PNAS seems more promising, ‘Sensitive bacterial Vm sensors revealed the excitability of bacterial Vm and its role in antibiotic tolerance’, X.Jin et al, PNAS, 120, 3, e2208348120.

- Electrical signal propagation is an important aspect of the manuscript. However, a detailed quantitative analysis of the spatial dynamics within the biofilm is lacking. In addition, it is unclear if the electrical signal propagates within the biofilm during the second peak regime, which is mediated by the Kch channel. This is an important question, given that the fire-diffuse-fire model is presented with emphasis on the role of K+ ions.

We have presented a more detailed account of the electrical wavefront modelling work and it is currently under review in a physical journal, ‘Electrical signalling in three dimensional bacterial biofilms using an agent based fire-diffuse-fire model’, V.Martorelli, et al, 2024 https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.11.17.567515v1

- Since deletion of the kch gene inhibits the long-term electrical response to light stimulation (regime II), the authors concluded that K+ ions play a role in the habituation response. However, Kch is a putative K+ ion channel. The use of specific drugs could help to clarify the role of K+ ions.

Our recent electrical impedance spectroscopy publication provides further evidence that Kch is associated with large changes in conductivity as expected for a voltage-gated ion channel (https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.nanolett.3c04446, 'Electrical impedance spectroscopy with bacterial biofilms: neuronal-like behavior', E.Akabuogu et al, ACS Nanoletters, 2024, in print.

- The manuscript as such does not allow us to properly conclude on the photo-protective role of the Kch ion channel.

That Kch has a photoprotective role is our current working hypothesis. The hypothesis fits with the data, but we are not saying we have proven it beyond all possible doubt.

- The link between membrane potential dynamics and mechanosensitivity is not captured in the equation for the Q-channel opening dynamics in the Hodgkin-Huxley model (Supp Eq 2).

Our model is agnostic with respect to the mechanosensitivity of the ion channels, although we deduce that mechanosensitive ion channels contribute to ion channel Q.

- Given the large number of parameters used in the models, it is hard to distinguish between prediction and fitting.

This is always an issue with electrophysiological modelling (compared with most heart and brain modelling studies we are very conservative in the choice of parameters for the bacteria). In terms of predicting the different phenomena observed, we believe the model is very successful.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Summary of what the authors were trying to achieve:

The authors thought they studied membrane potential dynamics in E.coli biofilms. They thought so because they were unaware that the dye they used to report that membrane potential in E.coli, has been previously shown not to report it. Because of this, the interpretation of the authors' results is not accurate.

We believe the Pilizota work is scientifically flawed.

Major strengths and weaknesses of the methods and results:

The strength of this work is that all the data is presented clearly, and accurately, as far as I can tell.

The major critical weakness of this paper is the use of ThT dye as a membrane potential dye in E.coli. The work is unaware of a publication from 2020 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006349519308793 [sciencedirect.com] that demonstrates that ThT is not a membrane potential dye in E. coli. Therefore I think the results of this paper are misinterpreted. The same publication I reference above presents a protocol on how to carefully calibrate any candidate membrane potential dye in any given condition.

We are aware of this study, but believe it to be scientifically flawed. We do not cite the article because we do not think it is a particularly useful contribution to the literature.

I now go over each results section in the manuscript.

Result section 1: Blue light triggers electrical spiking in single E. coli cells

I do not think the title of the result section is correct for the following reasons. The above-referenced work demonstrates the loading profile one should expect from a Nernstian dye (Figure 1). It also demonstrates that ThT does not show that profile and explains why is this so. ThT only permeates the membrane under light exposure (Figure 5). This finding is consistent with blue light peroxidising the membrane (see also following work Figure 4 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006349519303923 [sciencedirect.com] on light-induced damage to the electrochemical gradient of protons-I am sure there are more references for this).

The Pilizota group invokes some elaborate artefacts to explain the lack of agreement with a simple Nernstian battery model. The model is incorrect not the fluorophore.

Please note that the loading profile (only observed under light) in the current manuscript in Figure 1B as well as in the video S1 is identical to that in Figure 3 from the above-referenced paper (i.e. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006349519308793 [sciencedirect.com]), and corresponding videos S3 and S4. This kind of profile is exactly what one would expect theoretically if the light is simultaneously lowering the membrane potential as the ThT is equilibrating, see Figure S12 of that previous work. There, it is also demonstrated by the means of monitoring the speed of bacterial flagellar motor that the electrochemical gradient of protons is being lowered by the light. The authors state that applying the blue light for different time periods and over different time scales did not change the peak profile. This is expected if the light is lowering the electrochemical gradient of protons. But, in Figure S1, it is clear that it affected the timing of the peak, which is again expected, because the light affects the timing of the decay, and thus of the decay profile of the electrochemical gradient of protons (Figure 4 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006349519303923 [sciencedirect.com]).

We think the proton effect is a million times weaker than that due to potasium i.e. 0.2 M K+ versus 10-7 M H+. We can comfortably neglect the influx of H+ in our experiments.

If find Figure S1D interesting. There authors load TMRM, which is a membrane voltage dye that has been used extensively (as far as I am aware this is the first reference for that and it has not been cited https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1914430 [ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]/). As visible from the last TMRM reference I give, TMRM will only load the cells in Potassium Phosphate buffer with NaCl (and often we used EDTA to permeabilise the membrane). It is not fully clear (to me) whether here TMRM was prepared in rich media (it explicitly says so for ThT in Methods but not for TMRM), but it seems so. If this is the case, it likely also loads because of the damage to the membrane done with light, and therefore I am not surprised that the profiles are similar.

The vast majority of cells continue to be viable. We do not think membrane damage is dominating.

The authors then use CCCP. First, a small correction, as the authors state that it quenches membrane potential. CCCP is a protonophore (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/4962086 [pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]/), so it collapses electrochemical gradient of protons. This means that it is possible, and this will depend on the type of pumps present in the cell, that CCCP collapses electrochemical gradient of protons, but the membrane potential is equal and opposite in sign to the DeltapH. So using CCCP does not automatically mean membrane potential will collapse (e.g. in some mammalian cells it does not need to be the case, but in E.coli it is https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.11.19.469321v2 [biorxiv.org]). CCCP has also been recently found to be a substrate for TolC (https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/mbio.00676-21 [journals.asm.org]), but at the concentrations the authors are using CCCP (100uM) that should not affect the results. However, the authors then state because they observed, in Figure S1E, a fast efflux of ions in all cells and no spiking dynamics this confirms that observed dynamics are membrane potential related. I do not agree that it does. First, Figure S1E, does not appear to show transients, instead, it is visible that after 50min treatment with 100uM CCCP, ThT dye shows no dynamics. The action of a Nernstian dye is defined. It is not sufficient that a charged molecule is affected in some way by electrical potential, this needs to be in a very specific way to be a Nernstian dye. Part of the profile of ThT loading observed in https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006349519308793 [sciencedirect.com] is membrane potential related, but not in a way that is characteristic of Nernstian dye.

Our understanding of the literature is CCCP poisons the whole metabolism of the bacterial cells. The ATP driven K+ channels will stop functioning and this is the dominant contributor to membrane potential.

Result section 2: Membrane potential dynamics depend on the intercellular distance

In this chapter, the authors report that the time to reach the first intensity peak during ThT loading is different when cells are in microclusters. They interpret this as electrical signalling in clusters because the peak is reached faster in microclusters (as opposed to slower because intuitively in these clusters cells could be shielded from light). However, shielding is one possibility. The other is that the membrane has changed in composition and/or the effective light power the cells can tolerate (with mechanisms to handle light-induced damage, some of which authors mention later in the paper) is lower. Given that these cells were left in a microfluidic chamber for 2h hours to attach in growth media according to Methods, there is sufficient time for that to happen. In Figure S12 C and D of that same paper from my group (https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0006349519308793-mmc6.pdf [ars.els-cdn.com]) one can see the effects of peak intensity and timing of the peak on the permeability of the membrane. Therefore I do not think the distance is the explanation for what authors observe.

Shielding would provide the reverse effect, since hyperpolarization begins in the dense centres of the biofilms. For the initial 2 hours the cells receive negligible blue light. Neither of the referee’s comments thus seem tenable.

Result section 3: Emergence of synchronized global wavefronts in E. coli biofilms

In this section, the authors exposed a mature biofilm to blue light. They observe that the intensity peak is reached faster in the cells in the middle. They interpret this as the ion-channel-mediated wavefronts moved from the center of the biofilm. As above, cells in the middle can have different membrane permeability to those at the periphery, and probably even more importantly, there is no light profile shown anywhere in SI/Methods. I could be wrong, but the SI3 A profile is consistent with a potential Gaussian beam profile visible in the field of view. In Methods, I find the light source for the blue light and the type of microscope but no comments on how 'flat' the illumination is across their field of view. This is critical to assess what they are observing in this result section. I do find it interesting that the ThT intensity collapsed from the edges of the biofilms. In the publication I mentioned https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006349519308793#app2 [sciencedirect.com], the collapse of fluorescence was not understood (other than it is not membrane potential related). It was observed in Figure 5A, C, and F, that at the point of peak, electrochemical gradient of protons is already collapsed, and that at the point of peak cell expands and cytoplasmic content leaks out. This means that this part of the ThT curve is not membrane potential related. The authors see that after the first peak collapsed there is a period of time where ThT does not stain the cells and then it starts again. If after the first peak the cellular content leaks, as we have observed, then staining that occurs much later could be simply staining of cytoplasmic positively charged content, and the timing of that depends on the dynamics of cytoplasmic content leakage (we observed this to be happening over 2h in individual cells). ThT is also a non-specific amyloid dye, and in starving E. coli cells formation of protein clusters has been observed (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30472191 [pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]/), so such cytoplasmic staining seems possible.

>>It is very easy to see if the illumination is flat (Köhler illumination) by comparing the intensity of background pixels on the detector. It was flat in our case. Protons have little to do with our work for reasons highlighted before. Differential membrane permittivity is a speculative phenomenon not well supported by any evidence and with no clear molecular mechanism.

Finally, I note that authors observe biofilms of different shapes and sizes and state that they observe similar intensity profiles, which could mean that my comment on 'flatness' of the field of view above is not a concern. However, the scale bar in Figure 2A is not legible, so I can't compare it to the variation of sizes of the biofilms in Figure 2C (67 to 280um). Based on this, I think that the illumination profile is still a concern.

The referee now contradicts themselves and wants a scale bar to be more visible. We have changed the scale bar.

Result section 4: Voltage-gated Kch potassium channels mediate ion-channel electrical oscillations in E. coli

First I note at this point, given that I disagree that the data presented thus 'suggest that E. coli biofilms use electrical signaling to coordinate long-range responses to light stress' as the authors state, it gets harder to comment on the rest of the results.

In this result section the authors look at the effect of Kch, a putative voltage-gated potassium channel, on ThT profile in E. coli cells. And they see a difference. It is worth noting that in the publication https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006349519308793 [sciencedirect.com] it is found that ThT is also likely a substrate for TolC (Figure 4), but that scenario could not be distinguished from the one where TolC mutant has a different membrane permeability (and there is a publication that suggests the latter is happening https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2958.2010.07245.x [onlinelibrary.wiley.com]). Given this, it is also possible that Kch deletion affects the membrane permeability. I do note that in video S4 I seem to see more of, what appear to be, plasmolysed cells. The authors do not see the ThT intensity with this mutant that appears long after the initial peak has disappeared, as they see in WT. It is not clear how long they waited for this, as from Figure S3C it could simply be that the dynamics of this is a lot slower, e.g. Kch deletion changes membrane permeability.

The work that TolC provides a possible passive pathway for ThT to leave cells seems slightly niche. It just demonstrates another mechanism for the cells to equilibriate the concentrations of ThT in a Nernstian manner i.e. driven by the membrane voltage.

The authors themselves state that the evidence for Kch being a voltage-gated channel is indirect (line 54). I do not think there is a need to claim function from a ThT profile of E. coli mutants (nor do I believe it's good practice), given how accurate single-channel recordings are currently. To know the exact dependency on the membrane potential, ion channel recordings on this protein are needed first.

We have good evidence form electrical impedance spectroscopy experiments that Kch increases the conductivity of biofilms  (https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.nanolett.3c04446, 'Electrical impedance spectroscopy with bacterial biofilms: neuronal-like behavior', E.Akabuogu et al, ACS Nanoletters, 2024, in print.

Result section 5: Blue light influences ion-channel mediated membrane potential events in E. coli

In this chapter the authors vary the light intensity and stain the cells with PI (this dye gets into the cells when the membrane becomes very permeable), and the extracellular environment with K+ dye (I have not yet worked carefully with this dye). They find that different amounts of light influence ThT dynamics. This is in line with previous literature (both papers I have been mentioning: Figure 4 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006349519303923 [sciencedirect.com] and https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0006349519308793-mmc6.pdf [ars.els-cdn.com] especially SI12), but does not add anything new. I think the results presented here can be explained with previously published theory and do not indicate that the ion-channel mediated membrane potential dynamics is a light stress relief process.

The simple Nernstian battery model proposed by Pilizota et al is erroneous in our opinion for reasons outlined above. We believe it will prove to be a dead end for bacterial electrophysiology studies.

Result section 6: Development of a Hodgkin-Huxley model for the observed membrane potential dynamics

This results section starts with the authors stating: 'our data provide evidence that E. coli manages light stress through well-controlled modulation of its membrane potential dynamics'. As stated above, I think they are instead observing the process of ThT loading while the light is damaging the membrane and thus simultaneously collapsing the electrochemical gradient of protons. As stated above, this has been modelled before. And then, they observe a ThT staining that is independent from membrane potential.

This is an erroneous niche opinion. Protons have little say in the membrane potential since there are so few of them. The membrane potential is mostly determined by K+.

I will briefly comment on the Hodgkin Huxley (HH) based model. First, I think there is no evidence for two channels with different activation profiles as authors propose. But also, the HH model has been developed for neurons. There, the leakage and the pumping fluxes are both described by a constant representing conductivity, times the difference between the membrane potential and Nernst potential for the given ion. The conductivity in the model is given as gK*n^4 for potassium, gNa*m^3*h sodium, and gL for leakage, where gK, gNa and gL were measured experimentally for neurons. And, n, m, and h are variables that describe the experimentally observed voltage-gated mechanism of neuronal sodium and potassium channels. (Please see Hodgkin AL, Huxley AF. 1952. Currents carried by sodium and potassium ions through the membrane of the giant axon of Loligo. J. Physiol. 116:449-72 and Hodgkin AL, Huxley AF. 1952. A quantitative description of membrane current and its application to conduction and excitation in nerve. J. Physiol. 117:500-44).

In the 70 years since Hodgkin and Huxley first presented their model, a huge number of similar models have been proposed to describe cellular electrophysiology. We are not being hyperbolic when we state that the HH models for excitable cells are like the Schrödinger equation for molecules. We carefully adapted our HH model to reflect the currently understood electrophysiology of E. coli.

Thus, in applying the model to describe bacterial electrophysiology one should ensure near equilibrium requirement holds (so that (V-VQ) etc terms in authors' equation Figure 5 B hold), and potassium and other channels in a given bacterium have similar gating properties to those found in neurons. I am not aware of such measurements in any bacteria, and therefore think the pump leak model of the electrophysiology of bacteria needs to start with fluxes that are more general (for example Keener JP, Sneyd J. 2009. Mathematical physiology: I: Cellular physiology. New York: Springer or https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0000144 [journals.plos.org])

The reference is to a slightly more modern version of a simple Nernstian battery model. The model will not oscillate and thus will not help modelling membrane potentials in bacteria. We are unsure where the equilibrium requirement comes from (inadequate modelling of the dynamics?)

Result section 7: Mechanosensitive ion channels (MS) are vital for the first hyperpolarization event in E. coli.

The results that Mcs channels affect the profile of ThT dye are interesting. It is again possible that the membrane permeability of these mutants has changed and therefore the dynamics have changed, so this needs to be checked first. I also note that our results show that the peak of ThT coincides with cell expansion. For this to be understood a model is needed that also takes into account the link between maintenance of electrochemical gradients of ions in the cell and osmotic pressure.

The evidence for permeability changes in the membranes seems to be tenuous.

A side note is that the authors state that the Msc responds to stress-related voltage changes. I think this is an overstatement. Mscs respond to predominantly membrane tension and are mostly nonspecific (see how their action recovers cellular volume in this publication https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1522185113 [pnas.org]). Authors cite references 35-39 to support this statement. These publications still state that these channels are predominantly membrane tension-gated. Some of the references state that the presence of external ions is important for tension-related gating but sometimes they gate spontaneously in the presence of certain ions. Other publications cited don't really look at gating with respect to ions (39 is on clustering). This is why I think the statement is somewhat misleading.

We have reworded the discussion of Mscs since the literature appears to be ambiguous. We will try to run some electrical impedance spectroscopy experiments on the Msc mutants in the future to attempt to remove the ambiguity.

Result section 8: Anomalous ion-channel-mediated wavefronts propagate light stress signals in 3D E. coli biofilms.

I am not commenting on this result section, as it would only be applicable if ThT was membrane potential dye in E. coli.

Ok, but we disagree on the use of ThT.

Aims achieved/results support their conclusions:

The authors clearly present their data. I am convinced that they have accurately presented everything they observed. However, I think their interpretation of the data and conclusions is inaccurate in line with the discussion I provided above.

Likely impact of the work on the field, and the utility of the methods and data to the community:

I do not think this publication should be published in its current format. It should be revised in light of the previous literature as discussed in detail above. I believe presenting it in it's current form on eLife pages would create unnecessary confusion.

We believe many of the Pilizota group articles are scientifically flawed and are causing the confusion in the literature.

Any other comments:

I note, that while this work studies E. coli, it references papers in other bacteria using ThT. For example, in lines 35-36 authors state that bacteria (Bacillus subtilis in this case) in biofilms have been recently found to modulate membrane potential citing the relevant literature from 2015. It is worth noting that the most recent paper https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/mbio.02220-23 [journals.asm.org] found that ThT binds to one or more proteins in the spore coat, suggesting that it does not act as a membrane potential in Bacillus spores. It is possible that it still reports membrane potential in Bacillus cells and the recent results are strictly spore-specific, but these should be kept in mind when using ThT with Bacillus.

>>ThT was used successfully in previous studies of normal B. subtilis cells (by our own group and A.Prindle, ‘Spatial propagation of electrical signal in circular biofilms’, J.A.Blee et al, Physical Review E, 2019, 100, 052401, J.A.Blee et al, ‘Membrane potentials, oxidative stress and the dispersal response of bacterial biofilms to 405 nm light’, Physical Biology, 2020, 17, 2, 036001, A.Prindle et al, ‘Ion channels enable electrical communication in bacterial communities’, Nature, 2015, 527, 59-63). The connection to low metabolism pore research seems speculative.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

It has recently been demonstrated that bacteria in biofilms show changes in membrane potential in response to changes in their environment, and that these can propagate signals through the biofilm to coordinate bacterial behavior. Akabuogu et al. contribute to this exciting research area with a study of blue light-induced membrane potential dynamics in E. coli biofilms. They demonstrate that Thioflavin-T (ThT) intensity (a proxy for membrane potential) displays multiphasic dynamics in response to blue light treatment. They additionally use genetic manipulations to implicate the potassium channel Kch in the latter part of these dynamics. Mechanosensitive ion channels may also be involved, although these channels seem to have blue light-independent effects on membrane potential as well. In addition, there are challenges to the quantitative interpretation of ThT microscopy data which require consideration. The authors then explore whether these dynamics are involved in signaling at the community level. The authors suggest that cell firing is both more coordinated when cells are clustered and happens in waves in larger, 3D biofilms; however, in both cases evidence for these claims is incomplete. The authors present two simulations to describe the ThT data. The first of these simulations, a Hodgkin-Huxley model, indicates that the data are consistent with the activity of two ion channels with different kinetics; the Kch channel mutant, which ablates a specific portion of the response curve, is consistent with this. The second model is a fire-diffuse-fire model to describe wavefront propagation of membrane potential changes in a 3D biofilm; because the wavefront data are not presented clearly, the results of this model are difficult to interpret. Finally, the authors discuss whether these membrane potential changes could be involved in generating a protective response to blue light exposure; increased death in a Kch ion channel mutant upon blue light exposure suggests that this may be the case, but a no-light control is needed to clarify this.

In a few instances, the paper is missing key control experiments that are important to the interpretation of the data. This makes it difficult to judge the meaning of some of the presented experiments.

(1) An additional control for the effects of autofluorescence is very important. The authors conduct an experiment where they treat cells with CCCP and see that Thioflavin-T (ThT) dynamics do not change over the course of the experiment. They suggest that this demonstrates that autofluorescence does not impact their measurements. However, cellular autofluorescence depends on the physiological state of the cell, which is impacted by CCCP treatment. A much simpler and more direct experiment would be to repeat the measurement in the absence of ThT or any other stain. This experiment should be performed both in the wild-type strain and in the ∆kch mutant.

ThT is a very bright fluorophore (much brighter than a GFP). It is clear from the images of non-stained samples that autofluorescence provides a negligible contribution to the fluorescence intensity in an image.

(2) The effects of photobleaching should be considered. Of course, the intensity varies a lot over the course of the experiment in a way that photobleaching alone cannot explain. However, photobleaching can still contribute to the kinetics observed. Photobleaching can be assessed by changing the intensity, duration, or frequency of exposure to excitation light during the experiment. Considerations about photobleaching become particularly important when considering the effect of catalase on ThT intensity. The authors find that the decrease in ThT signal after the initial "spike" is attenuated by the addition of catalase; this is what would be predicted by catalase protecting ThT from photobleaching (indeed, catalase can be used to reduce photobleaching in time lapse imaging).

Photobleaching was negligible over the course of the experiments. We employed techniques such as reducing sample exposure time and using the appropriate light intensity to minimize photobleaching.

(3) It would be helpful to have a baseline of membrane potential fluctuations in the absence of the proposed stimulus (in this case, blue light). Including traces of membrane potential recorded without light present would help support the claim that these changes in membrane potential represent a blue light-specific stress response, as the authors suggest. Of course, ThT is blue, so if the excitation light for ThT is problematic for this experiment the alternative dye tetramethylrhodamine methyl ester perchlorate (TMRM) can be used instead.

Unfortunately the fluorescent baseline is too weak to measure cleanly in this experiment. It appears the collective response of all the bacteria hyperpolarization at the same time appears to dominate the signal (measurements in the eLife article and new potentiometry measurements).

(4) The effects of ThT in combination with blue light should be more carefully considered. In mitochondria, a combination of high concentrations of blue light and ThT leads to disruption of the PMF (Skates et al. 2021 BioRXiv), and similarly, ThT treatment enhances the photodynamic effects of blue light in E. coli (Bondia et al. 2021 Chemical Communications). If present in this experiment, this effect could confound the interpretation of the PMF dynamics reported in the paper.

We think the PMF plays a minority role in determining the membrane potential in E. coli. For reasons outlined before (H+ is a minority ion in E. coli compared with K+).

(5) Figures 4D - E indicate that a ∆kch mutant has increased propidium iodide (PI) staining in the presence of blue light; this is interpreted to mean that Kch-mediated membrane potential dynamics help protect cells from blue light. However, Live/Dead staining results in these strains in the absence of blue light are not reported. This means that the possibility that the ∆kch mutant has a general decrease in survival (independent of any effects of blue light) cannot be ruled out.

>>Both strains of bacterial has similar growth curve and also engaged in membrane potential dynamics for the duration of the experiment. We were interested in bacterial cells that observed membrane potential dynamics in the presence of the stress. Bacterial cells need to be alive to engage in membrane potential  dynamics (hyperpolarize) under stress conditions. Cells that engaged in membrane potential dynamics and later stained red were only counted after the entire duration. We believe that the wildtype handles the light stress better than the ∆kch mutant as measured with the PI.

(6) Additionally in Figures 4D - E, the interpretation of this experiment can be confounded by the fact that PI uptake can sometimes be seen in bacterial cells with high membrane potential (Kirchhoff & Cypionka 2017 J Microbial Methods); the interpretation is that high membrane potential can lead to increased PI permeability. Because the membrane potential is largely higher throughout blue light treatment in the ∆kch mutant (Fig. 3AB), this complicates the interpretation of this experiment.

Kirchhoff & Cypionka 2017 J Microbial Methods, using fluorescence microscopy, suggested that changes in membrane potential dynamics can introduce experimental bias when propidium iodide is used to confirm the viability of tge bacterial strains, B subtilis (DSM-10) and Dinoroseobacter shibae, that are starved of oxygen (via N2 gassing) for 2 hours. They attempted to support their findings by using CCCP in stopping the membrane potential dynamics (but never showed any pictoral or plotted data for this confirmatory experiment). In our experiment methodology, cell death was not forced on the cells by introducing an extra burden or via anoxia. We believe that the accumulation of PI in ∆kch mutant is not due to high membrane potential dynamics but is attributed to the PI, unbiasedly showing damaged/dead cells. We think that propidium iodide is good for this experiment. Propidium iodide is a dye that is extensively used in life sciences. PI has also been used in the study of bacterial electrophysiology (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32343961/, ) and no membrane potential related bias was reported.

Throughout the paper, many ThT intensity traces are compared, and described as "similar" or "dissimilar", without detailed discussion or a clear standard for comparison. For example, the two membrane potential curves in Fig. S1C are described as "similar" although they have very different shapes, whereas the curves in Fig. 1B and 1D are discussed in terms of their differences although they are evidently much more similar to one another. Without metrics or statistics to compare these curves, it is hard to interpret these claims. These comparative interpretations are additionally challenging because many of the figures in which average trace data are presented do not indicate standard deviation.

Comparison of small changes in the absolute intensities is problematic in such fluorescence experiments. We mean the shape of the traces is similar and they can be modelled using a HH model with similar parameters.

The differences between the TMRM and ThT curves that the authors show in Fig. S1C warrant further consideration. Some of the key features of the response in the ThT curve (on which much of the modeling work in the paper relies) are not very apparent in the TMRM data. It is not obvious to me which of these traces will be more representative of the actual underlying membrane potential dynamics.

In our experiment, TMRM was used to confirm the dynamics observed using ThT. However, ThT appear to be more photostable than TMRM (especially towars the 2nd peak). The most interesting observation is that with both dyes, all phases of the membrane potential dynamics were conspicuous (the first peak, the quiescent period and the second peak). The time periods for these three episodes were also similar.

A key claim in this paper (that dynamics of firing differ depending on whether cells are alone or in a colony) is underpinned by "time-to-first peak" analysis, but there are some challenges in interpreting these results. The authors report an average time-to-first peak of 7.34 min for the data in Figure 1B, but the average curve in Figure 1B peaks earlier than this. In Figure 1E, it appears that there are a handful of outliers in the "sparse cell" condition that likely explain this discrepancy. Either an outlier analysis should be done and the mean recomputed accordingly, or a more outlier-robust method like the median should be used instead. Then, a statistical comparison of these results will indicate whether there is a significant difference between them.

The key point is the comparison of standard errors on the standard deviation.

In two different 3D biofilm experiments, the authors report the propagation of wavefronts of membrane potential; I am unable to discern these wavefronts in the imaging data, and they are not clearly demonstrated by analysis.

The first data set is presented in Figures 2A, 2B, and Video S3. The images and video are very difficult to interpret because of how the images have been scaled: the center of the biofilm is highly saturated, and the zero value has also been set too high to consistently observe the single cells surrounding the biofilm. With the images scaled this way, it is very difficult to assess dynamics. The time stamps in Video S3 and on the panels in Figure 2A also do not correspond to one another although the same biofilm is shown (and the time course in 2B is also different from what is indicated in 2B). In either case, it appears that the center of the biofilm is consistently brighter than the edges, and the intensity of all cells in the biofilm increases in tandem; by eye, propagating wavefronts (either directed toward the edge or the center) are not evident to me. Increased brightness at the center of the biofilm could be explained by increased cell thickness there (as is typical in this type of biofilm). From the image legend, it is not clear whether the image presented is a single confocal slice or a projection. Even if this is a single confocal slice, in both Video S3 and Figure 2A there are regions of "haze" from out-of-focus light evident, suggesting that light from other focal planes is nonetheless present. This seems to me to be a simpler explanation for the fluorescence dynamics observed in this experiment: cells are all following the same trajectory that corresponds to that seen for single cells, and the center is brighter because of increased biofilm thickness.

We appreciate the reviewer for this important observation. We have made changes to the figures to address this confusion. The cell cover has no influence on the observed membrane potential dynamics. The entire biofilm was exposed to the same blue light at each time. Therefore all parts of the biofilm received equal amounts of the blue light intensity. The membrane potential dynamics was not influenced by cell density (see Fig 2C). 

The second data set is presented in Video S6B; I am similarly unable to see any wave propagation in this video. I observe only a consistent decrease in fluorescence intensity throughout the experiment that is spatially uniform (except for the bright, dynamic cells near the top; these presumably represent cells that are floating in the microfluidic and have newly arrived to the imaging region).

A visual inspection of Video S6B shows a fast rise, a decrease in fluorescence and a second rise (supplementary figure 4B). The data for the fluorescence was carefully obtained using the imaris software. We created a curved geometry on each slice of the confocal stack. We analyzed the surfaces of this curved plane along the z-axis. This was carried out in imaris.

3D imaging data can be difficult to interpret by eye, so it would perhaps be more helpful to demonstrate these propagating wavefronts by analysis; however, such analysis is not presented in a clear way. The legend in Figure 2B mentions a "wavefront trace", but there is no position information included - this trace instead seems to represent the average intensity trace of all cells. To demonstrate the propagation of a wavefront, this analysis should be shown for different subpopulations of cells at different positions from the center of the biofilm. Data is shown in Figure 8 that reflects the velocity of the wavefront as a function of biofilm position; however, because the wavefronts themselves are not evident in the data, it is difficult to interpret this analysis. The methods section additionally does not contain sufficient information about what these velocities represent and how they are calculated. Because of this, it is difficult for me to evaluate the section of the paper pertaining to wave propagation and the predicted biofilm critical size.

The analysis is considered in more detail in a more expansive modelling article, currently under peer review in a physics journal, ‘Electrical signalling in three dimensional bacterial biofilms using an agent based fire-diffuse-fire model’, V.Martorelli, et al, 2024 https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.11.17.567515v1

There are some instances in the paper where claims are made that do not have data shown or are not evident in the cited data:

(1) In the first results section, "When CCCP was added, we observed a fast efflux of ions in all cells"- the data figure pertaining to this experiment is in Fig. S1E, which does not show any ion efflux. The methods section does not mention how ion efflux was measured during CCCP treatment.

We have worded this differently to properly convey our results.

(2) In the discussion of voltage-gated calcium channels, the authors refer to "spiking events", but these are not obvious in Figure S3E. Although the fluorescence intensity changes over time, it's hard to distinguish these fluctuations from measurement noise; a no-light control could help clarify this.

The calcium transients observed were not due to noise or artefacts.

(3) The authors state that the membrane potential dynamics simulated in Figure 7B are similar to those observed in 3D biofilms in Fig. S4B; however, the second peak is not clearly evident in Fig. S4B and it looks very different for the mature biofilm data reported in Fig. 2. I have some additional confusion about this data specifically: in the intensity trace shown in Fig. S4B, the intensity in the second frame is much higher than the first; this is not evident in Video S6B, in which the highest intensity is in the first frame at time 0. Similarly, the graph indicates that the intensity at 60 minutes is higher than the intensity at 4 minutes, but this is not the case in Fig. S4A or Video S6B.

The confusion stated here has now been addressed. Also it should be noted that while Fig 2.1 was obtained with LED light source, Fig S4A was obtained using a laser light source. While obtaining the confocal images (for Fig S4A ), the light intensity was controlled to further minimize photobleaching. Most importantly, there is an evidence of slow rise to the 2nd peak in Fig S4B. The first peak, quiescence and slow rise to second peak are evident.

Recommendations for the authors:

Reviewer #1 (Recommendations For The Authors):

Scientific recommendations:

- Although Fig 4A clearly shows that light stimulation has an influence on the dynamics of cell membrane potential in the biofilm, it is important to rule out the contribution of variations in environmental parameters. I understand that for technical reasons, the flow of fresh medium must be stopped during image acquisition. Therefore, I suggest performing control experiments, where the flow is stopped before image acquisition (15min, 30min, 45min, and 1h before). If there is no significant contribution from environmental variations (pH, RedOx), the dynamics of the electrical response should be superimposed whatever the delay between stopping the flow stop and switching on the light.

In this current research study, we were focused on studying how E. coli cells and biofilms react to blue light stress via their membrane potential dynamics. This involved growing the cells and biofilms, stopping the media flow and obtaining data immediately. We believe that stopping the flow not only helped us to manage data acquisition, it also helped us reduce the effect of environmental factors. In our future study we will expand the work to include how the membrane potential dynamics evolve in the presence of changing environmental factors for example such induced by stopping the flow at varied times.

- Since TMRM signal exhibits a linear increase after the first response peak (Supplementary Figure 1D), I recommend mitigating the statement at line 78.

- To improve the spatial analysis of the electrical response, I suggest plotting kymographs of the intensity profiles across the biofilm. I have plotted this kymograph for Video S3 and it appears that there is no electrical propagation for the second peak. In addition, the authors should provide technical details of how R^2(t) is measured in the first regime (Figure 7E).

See the dedicated simulation article for more details. https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.11.17.567515v1

- Line 152: To assess the variability of the latency, the authors should consider measuring the variance divided by the mean instead of SD, which may depend on the average value.

We are happy with our current use of standard error on the standard deviation. It shows what we claim to be true.

- Line 154-155: To truly determine whether the amplitude of the "action potential" is independent of biofilm size, the authors should not normalise the signals.

Good point. We qualitatively compared both normalized and unnormalized data. Recent electrical impedance spectroscopy measurements (unpublished) indicate that the electrical activity is an extensive quantity i.e. it scales with the size of the biofilms.

- To precise the role of K+ in the habituation response, I suggest using valinomycin at sub-inhibitory concentrations (10µM). Besides, the high concentration of CCCP used in this study completely inhibits cell activity. Not surprisingly, no electrical response to light stimulation was observed in the presence of CCCP. Finally, the Kch complementation experiment exhibits a "drop after the first peak" on a single point. It would be more convincing to increase the temporal resolution (1min->10s) to show that there is indeed a first and a second peak.

An interesting experiment for the future.

- Line 237-238: There are only two points suggesting that the dynamics of hyperpolarization are faster at higher irradiance(Fig 4A). The authors should consider adding a third intermediate point at 17µW/mm^2 to confirm the statement made in this sentence.

Multiple repeats were performed. We are confident of the robustness of our data.

- Line 249 + Fig 4E: It seems that the data reported on Fig 4E are extracted from Fig 4D. If this is indeed the case, the data should be normalised by the total population size to compare survival probabilities under the two conditions. It would also be great to measure these probabilities (for WT and ∆kch) in the presence of ROS scavengers.

- To distinguish between model fitting and model predictions, the authors should clearly state which parameters are taken from the literature and which parameters are adjusted to fit the experimental data.

- Supplementary Figure 4A: why can't we see any wavefront in this series of images?

For the experimental data, the wavefront was analyzed by employing the imaris software. We systematically created a ROI with a curved geometry within the confocal stack (the biofilm). The fluorescence of ThT was traced along the surface of the curved geometry was analyzed along the z-axis.

- Fig 7B: Could the authors explain why the plateau is higher in the simulations than in the biofilm experiments? Could they add noise on the firing activities?

See the dedicated Martorelli modelling article. In general we would need to approach stochastic Hodgkin-Huxley modelling and the fluorescence data (and electrical impedance spectroscopy data) presented does not have extensive noise (due to collective averaging over many bacteria cells).

- Supplementary Figure 4B: Why can't we see the second peak in confocal images?

The second peak is present although not as robust as in Fig 2B. The confocal images were obtained with a laser source. Therefore we tried to create a balance between applying sufficient light stress on the bacterial cells and mitigating photobleaching.

Editing recommendations:

The editing recommendations below has been applied where appropriate

- Many important technical details are missing (e.g. R^2, curvature, and 445nm irradiance measurements). Error bars are missing from most graphs. The captions should clearly indicate if these are single-cell or biofilm experiments, strain name, illumination conditions, number of experiments, SD, or SE. Please indicate on all panels of all figures in the main text and in the supplements, which are the conditions: single cell vs. biofilm, strains, medium, centrifugal vs centripetal etc..., where relevant. Please also draw error bars everywhere.

We have now made appropriate changes. We specifically use cells when we were dealing with single cells and biofilms when we worked on biofilms. We decided to describe the strain name either on the panel or the image description.

- Line 47-51: The way the paragraph is written suggests that no coordinated electrical oscillations have been observed in Gram-negative biofilms. However, Hennes et al (referenced as 57 in this manuscript) have shown that a wave of hyperpolarized cells propagates in Neisseria gonorrhoea colony, which is a Gram-negative bacterium.

We are now aware of this work. It was not published when we first submitted our work and the authors claim the waves of activity are due to ROS diffusion NOT propagating waves of ions (coordinated electrical wavefronts).

- Line 59: "stressor" -> "stress" or "perturbation".

The correction has been made.

- Line 153: Please indicate in the Material&Methods how the size of the biofilm is measured.

The biofilm size was obtained using BiofilmQ and the step by step guide for using BiofilmQ were stated..

- Figure 2A: Please provide associated brightfield images to locate bacteria.

- Line 186: Please remove "wavefront" from the caption. Fig2B only shows the average signal as a function of time.

This correction has been implemented.

- Fig 3B,C: Please indicate single cell and biofilm on the panels and also WT and ∆kch.

- Line 289: I suggest adding "in single cell experiments" to the title of this section.

- Fig 5A: blue light is always present at regular time intervals during regime I and II. The presence of blue light only in regime I could be misleading.

- Fig 5C: The curve in Fig 5D seems to correspond to the biofilm case. The curve given by the model, should be compared with the average curve presented in Fig 1D.

- Fig 6A, B, and C: These figures could be moved to supplements.

- Line 392: Replace "turgidity" with "turgor pressure".

- Fig 7C,E: Please use a log-log scale to represent these data and indicate the line of slope 1.

- Fig 7E: The x-axis has been cropped.

- Please provide a supplementary movie for the data presented in Fig 7E.

- Line 455: E. Coli biofilms do not express ThT.

- Line 466: "\gamma is the anomalous exponent". Please remove anomalous (\gamma can equal 1 at this stage).

- Line 475: Please replace "section" with "projection".

- Line 476: Please replace "spatiotemporal" with "temporal". There is no spatial dependency in either figure.

- Line 500: Please define Eikonal approximation.

- Fig 8 could be moved to supplements.

- Line 553: "predicted" -> "predict".

- Line 593: Could the authors explain why their model offers much better quantitative agreement?

- Line 669: What does "universal" mean in that context?

- Line 671: A volume can be pipetted but not a concentration.

- Line 676: Are triplicates technical or biological replicates?

- Sup Fig1: Please use minutes instead of seconds in panel A.

- Model for membrane dynamics: "The fraction of time the Q+ channel is open" -> "The dynamics of Q+ channel activity can be written". Ditto for K+ channel...

- Model for membrane dynamics: "the term ... is a threshold-linear". This function is not linear at all. Why is it called linear? Also, please describe what \sigma is.

- ABFDF model: "releasing a given concentration" -> "releasing a local concentration" or "a given number" but it's not \sigma anymore. Besides, this \sigma is unlikely related to the previous \sigma used in the model of membrane potential dynamics in single cells. Please consider renaming one or the other. Also, ions are referred to as C+ in the text and C in equation 8. Am I missing something?

Reviewer #2 (Recommendations For The Authors):

I have included all my comments as one review. I have done so, despite the fact that some minor comments could have gone into this section, because I decided to review each Result section. I thus felt that not writing it as one review might be harder to follow. I have however highlighted which comments are minor suggestions or where I felt corrections.

However, while I am happy with all my comments being public, given their nature I think they should be shown to authors first. Perhaps the authors want to go over them and think about it before deciding if they are happy for their manuscript to be published along with these comments, or not. I will highlight this in an email to the editor. I question whether in this case, given that I am raising major issues, publishing both the manuscript and the comments is the way to go as I think it might just generate confusion among the audience.

Reviewer #3 (Recommendations For The Authors):

I was unable to find any legends for any of the supplemental videos in my review materials, and I could not open supplemental video 5.

I made some comments in the public review about the analysis and interpretation of the time-to-fire data. One of the other challenges in this data set is that the time resolution is limited- it seems that a large proportion of cells have already fired after a single acquisition frame. It would be ideal to increase the time resolution on this measurement to improve precision. This could be done by imaging more quickly, but that would perhaps necessitate more blue light exposure; an alternative is to do this experiment under lower blue light irradiance where the first spike time is increased (Figure 4A).

In the public review, I mentioned the possible impact of high membrane potential on PI permeability. To address this, the experiment could be repeated with other stains, or the viability of blue light-treated cells could be addressed more directly by outgrowth or colony-forming unit assays.

In the public review, I mentioned the possible combined toxicity of ThT and blue light. Live/dead experiments after blue light exposure with and without ThT could be used to test for such effects, and/or the growth curve experiment in Figure 1F could be repeated with blue light exposure at a comparable irradiance used in the experiment.

Throughout the paper and figure legends, it would help to have more methodological details in the main text, especially those that are critical for the interpretation of the experiment. The experimental details in the methods section are nicely described, but the data analysis section should be expanded significantly.

At the end of the results section, the authors suggest a critical biofilm size of only 4 µm for wavefront propagation (not much larger than a single cell!). The authors show responses for various biofilm sizes in Fig. 2C, but these are all substantially larger. Are there data for cell clusters above and below this size that could support this claim more directly?

The authors mention image registration as part of their analysis pipeline, but the 3D data sets in Video S6B and Fig. S4A do not appear to be registered- were these registered prior to the velocity analysis reported in Fig. 8?

One of the most challenging claims to demonstrate in this paper is that these membrane potential wavefronts are involved in coordinating a large, biofilm-scale response to blue light. One possible way to test this might be to repeat the Live/Dead experiment in planktonic culture or the single-cell condition. If the protection from blue light specifically emerges due to coordinated activity of the biofilm, the Kch mutant would not be expected to show a change in Live/Dead staining in non-biofilm conditions.

Line 140: How is "mature biofilm" defined? Also on this same line, what does "spontaneous" mean here?

Line 151: "much smaller": Given that the reported time for 3D biofilms is 2.73 {plus minus} 0.85 min and in microclusters is 3.27 {plus minus} 1.77 min, this seems overly strong.

Line 155: How is "biofilm density" characterized? Additionally, the data in Figure 2C are presented in distance units (µm), but the text refers to "areal coverage"- please define the meaning of these distance units in the legend and/or here in the text (is this the average radius?).

Lines 161-162: These claims seem strong given the data presented before, and the logic is not very explicit. For example, in the second sentence, the idea that this signaling is used to "coordinate long-range responses to light stress" does not seem strongly evidenced at this point in the paper. What is meant by a long-range response to light stress- are there processes to respond to light that occur at long-length scales (rather than on the single-cell scale)? If so, is there evidence that these membrane potential changes could induce these responses? Please clarify the logic behind these conclusions.

Lines 235-236: In the lower irradiance conditions, the responses are slower overall, and it looks like the ThT intensity is beginning to rise at the end of the measurement. Could a more prominent second peak be observed in these cases if the measurement time was extended?

Line 242-243: The overall trajectories of extracellular potassium are indeed similar, but the kinetics of the second peak of potassium are different than those observed by ThT (it rises some minutes earlier)- is this consistent with the idea that Kch is responsible for that peak? Additionally, the potassium dynamics also reflect the first peak- is this surprising given that the Kch channel has no effect on this peak?

Line 255-256: Again, this seems like a very strong claim. There are several possible interpretations of the catalase experiment (which should be discussed); this experiment perhaps suggests that ROS impacts membrane potential, but does not obviously indicate that these membrane potential fluctuations mitigate ROS levels or help the cells respond to ROS stress. The loss of viability in the ∆kch mutant might indicate a link between these membrane potential experiments and viability, but it is hard to interpret without the no-light control I mention in the public review.

Lines 313-315: "The model predicts... the external light stress". Please clarify this section. Where this prediction arises from in the modeling work? Second, I am not sure what is meant by "modulates the light stress" or "keeps the cell dynamics robust to the intensity of external light stress" (especially since the dynamics clearly vary with irradiance, as seen in Figure 4A).

Line 322: I am not sure what "handles the ROS by adjusting the profile of the membrane potential dynamics" means. What is meant by "handling" ROS? Is the hypothesis that membrane potential dynamics themselves are protective against ROS, or that they induce a ROS-protective response downstream, or something else? Later in lines 327-8 the authors write that changes in the response to ROS in the model agree with the hypothesis, but just showing that ROS impacts the membrane potential does not seem to demonstrate that this has a protective effect against ROS.

Line 365-366: This section title seems confusing- mechanosensitive ion channels totally ablate membrane potential dynamics, they don't have a specific effect on the first hyperpolarization event. The claim that mechanonsensitive ion channels are specifically involved in the first event also appears in the abstract.

Also, the apparent membrane potential is much lower even at the start of the experiment in these mutants- is this expected? This seems to imply that these ion channels also have a blue light independent effect.

Lines 368, 371: Should be VGCCs rather than VGGCs.

Line 477: I believe the figure reference here should be to Figure 7B, not 6B.

Line 567-568: "The initial spike is key to registering the presence of the light stress." What is the evidence for this claim?

Line 592-594: "We have presented much better quantitative agreement..." This is a strong claim; it is not immediately evident to me that the agreement between model and prediction is "much better" in this work than in the cited work. The model in Figure 4 of reference 57 seems to capture the key features of their data. Clarification is needed about this claim.

Line 613: "...strains did not have any additional mutations." This seems to imply that whole genome sequencing was performed- is this the case?

Line 627: I believe this should refer to Figure S2A-B rather than S1.

Line 719: What percentage of cells did not hyperpolarize in these experiments?

Lines 751-754: As I mentioned above, significant detail is missing here about how these measurements were made. How is "radius" defined in 3D biofilms like the one shown in Video S6B, which looks very flat? What is meant by the distance from the substrate to the core, since usually in this biofilm geometry, the core is directly on the substrate? Most importantly, this only describes the process of sectioning the data- how were these sections used to compute the velocity of ThT signal propagation?

I also have some comments specifically on the figure presentation:

Normalization from 0 to 1 has been done in some of the ThT traces in the paper, but not all. The claims in the paper would be easiest to evaluate if the non-normalized data were shown- this is important for the interpretation of some of the claims.

Some indication of standard deviation (error bars or shading) should be added to all figures where mean traces are plotted.

Throughout the paper, I am a bit confused by the time axis; the data consistently starts at 1 minute. This is not intuitive to me, because it seems that the blue light being applied to the cells is also the excitation laser for ThT- in that case, shouldn't the first imaging frame be at time 0 (when the blue light is first applied)? Or is there an additional exposure of blue light 1 minute before imaging starts? This is consequential because it impacts the measured time to the first spike. (Additionally, all of the video time stamps start at 0).

Please increase the size of the scale bars and bar labels throughout, especially in Figure 2A and S4A.

In Figure 1B and D, it would help to decrease the opacity on the individual traces so that more of them can be discerned. It would also improve clarity to have data from the different experiments shown with different colored lines, so that variability between experiments can be clearly visualized.

Results in Figure 1E would be easier to interpret if the frequency were normalized to total N. It is hard to tell from this graph whether the edges and bin widths are the same between the data sets, but if not, they should be. Also, it would help to reduce the opacity of the sparse cell data set so that the full microcluster data set can be seen as well.

Biofilm images are shown in Figures 2A, S3A, and Video S3- these are all of the same biofilm. Why not take the opportunity to show different experimental replicates in these different figures? The same goes for Figure S4A and Video S6B, which again are of the same biofilm.

Figure 2C would be much easier to read if the curves were colored in order of their size; the same is true for Figure 4A and irradiance.

The complementation data in Figure S3D should be moved to the main text figure 3 alongside the data about the corresponding knockout to make it easier to compare the curves.

Fig.ure S3E: Is the Y-axis in this graph mislabeled? It is labeled as ThT fluorescence, but it seems that it is reporting fluorescence from the calcium indicator?

Video S6B is very confusing- why does the video play first forwards and then backwards? Unless I am looking very carefully at the time stamps it is easy to misinterpret this as a rise in the intensity at the end of the experiment. Without a video legend, it's hard to understand this, but I think it would be much more straightforward to interpret if it only played forward. (Also, why is this video labeled 6B when there is no video 6A?)

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

Summary:

In this study of metabolism using Xenopus, explanted porcine hearts and limbs, and human organs-on-chips, Sperry et al studied the ability of WB3 to slow metabolism and mobility. The group developed WB3, an analog of SNC80, void of SNC80's delta-opioid receptor binding capacity and studied its metabolic impact. The authors concluded that SNC80 and its analog WB3 can induce "biostasis" and produce a hypometabolic state which holds promise for prolonging organ viability in transplant surgery as well as other potential clinical benefits.

Strengths:

This study also opens new avenues for therapeutic possibilities in areas such as trauma, acute infection, and brain injuries. The overall methodology is acceptable, but certain concerns should be addressed.

Weaknesses:

Major comments:

(1) In cardiac and renal transplantation, cold preservation in ice remains a common practice for transporting explanted hearts to donors which remains a cheap and easily accessible way of preserving organs. While ex-vivo mechanical circulatory platforms have been developed and are increasingly being utilized to prolong organ viability, cold preservation remains widely used. The authors perfused explanted hearts with oxygenated perfusion preservation devices at subnormothermic temperatures (20-23C) which is even much lower than routinely used in clinical cardiopulmonary bypass scenarios (28-32C) (in the discussion, the authors allude to SNC80's possible "protective effect" in cardiac bypass). It is unclear how much of the hypometabolic state is related to WB3 administration versus hypothermia. The study will benefit from a comparison of WB3 administration and hypothermia in Xenopus, explanted porcine organs versus cold preservation alone to show distinction in biostasis parameters.

(2) The authors selected SNC80 based on a literature survey where it was identified based on its ability to induce hypothermia and protect against the effects of spinal cord ischemia in rodents. While this makes sense, were other drugs (eg. Puerarin) considered? The induction of hypothermia and spinal cord protective effect of SNC80 may be multifactorial and not necessarily related to its biostatic effects as the authors describe. Please provide some more context into the background of SNC80.

(3) In most of the models, the primary metric that the authors utilize to characterize metabolic activity is oxygen consumption, which is a somewhat limited indicator. For instance, this does not provide any information, however, on anaerobic metabolic activity. In addition, the ATP/ADP ratio was found to decrease in the organ chips where SNC80 was utilized, but similar findings were not presented for the other models.

(4) The authors should provide a more detailed explanation of SNC80's mechanisms of interaction with proteins related to transmembrane transport, mitochondrial activity, and metabolic processes. What is the impact of SNC80 on mitochondrial function, particularly ATP production and mitochondrial respiration? Are there changes in mitochondrial membrane potential, electron transport chain activity, or oxidative phosphorylation? In this context, authors discuss the potential role of NCX1 as a binding target for SNC80 and its various mechanisms in slowing metabolism. However, no experiments have been done to confirm this binding in the present study. Co-immunoprecipitation studies using appropriate antibodies against SNC80 and NCX1 should be considered to demonstrate their direct binding. Additionally, surface plasmon resonance (SPR) or isothermal titration calorimetry (ITC) experiments could be employed to quantify the binding affinity between SNC80 and NCX1, providing further evidence of their interaction. These experiments would elucidate the binding mechanism between SNC80 and NCX1 and reveal more information on the mechanism of action for SNC80.

(5) The manuscript notes that histological analysis was conducted, but it seems that only example images are provided, such as Fig 4f. Quantified histological data would provide a more thorough understanding of tissue integrity.

(6) Some of the points mentioned in the discussion and conclusion are rather strong and based on possible associations such as SNC80's potential vasodilatory capacity conferring a cardioprotective effect, ability to reversibly suppress metabolism across different temperatures and species. Please tone this down and stay limited to the organs studied. Further, the reversibility of the findings may be more objectively assessed by biomarkers with decreased immunofluorescence in response to ischemia such as troponin I for heart and albumin for liver. Additionally, an investigation of proteins involved in inflammation, hypoxia, and key cell death pathways using immunohistochemistry analysis can better describe the impact of treatment on apoptosis/necroptosis.

(7) What could be the underlying cause of the observed increase in intercellular spacing after SNC80 administration in porcine limbs which also seems to be evident in the heart histology samples? This seems to be more prominent in the SNC80 compared to the vehicle group.

(8) In the Discussion section, it would be valuable to provide a concise interpretation of the lipidomic data, particularly explaining how changes in acylcarnitine and cholesterol ester levels may relate to tadpole metabolism, hibernation, or other biological processes.

(9) What are the limitations or disadvantages of the study? Does SNC80 possess any immunomodulatory properties that might affect the outcomes of organ transplantation? Are there specific organs for which SNC80 may not be a suitable preservation agent, and if so, what are the reasons behind this?

Comments on revised version:

The authors have satisfactorily addressed our comments in the rebuttal letter. The limitations described by the authors in point #9, however, need to be incorporated in the revised manuscript in detail as they are important in guiding interpretation of the present data. Congratulations again on the important study.

eLife assessment

Pharmacological induction of physiological slowing combined with organ perfusion systems could provide a novel therapeutic strategy for tissue and organ preservation. Using a Xenopus model, the authors provide important findings on a use of drug to slow down metabolism for the purpose of organ preservation. The authors provide compelling evidence that SNC80 can rapidly and reversibly slow biochemical and metabolic activities while preserving cell and tissue viability. This approach may be beneficial for transplantation, trauma management, and improving organ survival in remote and low-resource settings

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Summary:

This manuscript titled "Identification of pharmacological inducers of a reversible hypometabolic state for whole organ preservation" reports the effects of delta opioid receptor activator SNC80 and its modified analog WB3 with ~1,000 times less delta opioid receptor binding activity on metabolic state.

Strengths:

This is an interesting study with potentially broad implications for organ preservation.

Weaknesses:

However, there are several limitations which raise concerns.

(1) The authors developed an analog of a known delta opioid receptor activator SNC80 with three orders of magnitude lesser binding with the delta opioid receptor WB3. This will likely reduce the undesirable effects of SNC80 while preserving metabolic slowing needed for organ preservation. Yet, most experiments were done with SNC80, not the superior modification, WB3, shown in only a limited set of experiments, Figure 3.

(2) The heart is one of the most challenging organs to preserve, and some experiments are done to establish the metabolic effects of SNC80. However, the biodistribution study, shown in Figure 2, conspicuously omitted the heart.

(3) I do not understand the design of the electrophysiology and contractility experiments with the porcine hearts. How did you defibrillate the hearts after removal and establishing perfusion? Lines 173-175 on Page 7 state: "After defibrillation with epinephrine, the P and QRS waveforms were visible in ECGs from 3 of 4 SNC80-treated hearts (Table S1), suggesting that those hearts regain atrial and ventricular polarization." Please clarify. Defibrillation is done with an electric shock. Also, please show the ECG recordings to support your conclusions about "polarization." What did you mean by "polarization"? Depolarization? Repolarization? Or resting potential. To establish a normal physiological state, please show ECG waveforms and present data on basic ECG characteristics: heart rate, PQ and QT intervals, and P and QRS durations. I recommend perfusion of the porcine heart with WB3, not only SNC80.

(4) Pathology data also raises concerns. The histology images shown in Figure 4f are not quantified, and they show apparently higher levels of tissue disruption in SNC80-treated tissue vs vehicle-treated. The test (lines 169-171) confirms this concern: "In some hearts treated with SNC80, greater waviness of muscle fibers was observed, possibly indicating a state of muscle contraction." It will be helpful to measure markers of apoptosis and necrosis and to apply TTC viability staining.

(5) The apparent state of contracture suggests a higher degree of myocardial damage and a high intracellular calcium level in SNC80-treated hearts. The authors suggested that the sodium-calcium exchanger NCX is a possible target of SNC80 and could be responsible for the "hypometabolic state." However, NCX1 is critically important in the extrusion of cytosolic Ca2+ during the diastolic phase. Failure to remove excessive calcium and restore ionic homeostasis would lead to calcium overload and heart failure.

(6) I am surprised the authors did not consider using the gold standard assay for measuring mitochondrial function in cells by the Seahorse Cell Mito Stress Test.

Comments on revised version:

I am satisfied with the revisions. The authors addressed major concerns with new data and/or provided satisfactory rebuttal.

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

Public Reviews:

Reviewer #1:

(1) In cardiac and renal transplantation, cold preservation in ice remains a common practice for transporting explanted hearts to donors which remains a cheap and easily accessible way of preserving organs. While ex-vivo mechanical circulatory platforms have been developed and are increasingly being utilized to prolong organ viability, cold preservation remains widely used. The authors perfused explanted hearts with oxygenated perfusion preservation devices at subnormothermic temperatures (20-23C) which is even much lower than routinely used in clinical cardiopulmonary bypass scenarios (28-32C) (in the discussion, the authors allude to SNC80's possible "protective effect" in cardiac bypass). It is unclear how much of the hypometabolic state is related to WB3 administration versus hypothermia. The study will benefit from a comparison of WB3 administration and hypothermia in Xenopus, explanted porcine organs versus cold preservation alone to show distinction in biostasis parameters.

Indeed, we expect that both pharmaceutical interventions and cooling could contribute to a hypometabolic state. To assess this, the controls and the treated groups were exposed to the same temperatures for both the Xenopus (18C) and porcine heart experiments (20-23C). Therefore, we can conclude that any changes in the treatment group relative to control can be attributed to the introduction of SNC80 or WB3 and not from cooling alone.  

(2) The authors selected SNC80 based on a literature survey where it was identified based on its ability to induce hypothermia and protect against the effects of spinal cord ischemia in rodents. While this makes sense, were other drugs (eg. Puerarin) considered? The induction of hypothermia and spinal cord protective effect of SNC80 may be multifactorial and not necessarily related to its biostatic effects as the authors describe. Please provide some more context into the background of SNC80.

During our research program, we considered and tested other drugs (>100 existing compounds in Xenopus screens). Although the published hypothermic and tissue protective effects suggested to us that SNC80 should be included in screening, it was not until we observed effects across multiple test parameters, systems, and species that we honed in on SNC80 as a lead compound. We have added additional information to further clarify the background of SNC80 on pgs. 3-4. 

(3) In most of the models, the primary metric that the authors utilize to characterize metabolic activity is oxygen consumption, which is a somewhat limited indicator. For instance, this does not provide any information, however, on anaerobic metabolic activity. In addition, the ATP/ADP ratio was found to decrease in the organ chips where SNC80 was utilized, but similar findings were not presented for the other models. 

We thank reviewers for their important point. We have therefore added additional experiments, including the Seahorse Mitostress assay for the four human cell types (Caco-2, Huh7, LSEC and HUVEC) used in the Organ Chip systems. We have added a description and an interpretation of the results in the section, Stasis induction in cultured human cells and tissues and mention the role of glycolysis and cytosolic reductive carboxylation as compensatory mechanisms.  Although the ATP/ADP ratio gave us useful insight into Huh-7 cells and chips metabolic activity, this method requires transfection and live imaging which does not suit other models such as Xenopus, or whole organs. Additionally, in animal models there may be other confounding factors that might influence ATP/ADP.

(4) The authors should provide a more detailed explanation of SNC80's mechanisms of interaction with proteins related to transmembrane transport, mitochondrial activity, and metabolic processes. What is the impact of SNC80 on mitochondrial function, particularly ATP production and mitochondrial respiration? Are there changes in mitochondrial membrane potential, electron transport chain activity, or oxidative phosphorylation? In this context, the authors discuss the potential role of NCX1 as a binding target for SNC80 and its various mechanisms in slowing metabolism. However, no experiments have been done to confirm this binding in the present study. Coimmunoprecipitation studies using appropriate antibodies against SNC80 and NCX1 should be considered to demonstrate their direct binding. Additionally, surface plasmon resonance (SPR) or isothermal titration calorimetry (ITC) experiments could be employed to quantify the binding affinity between SNC80 and NCX1, providing further evidence of their interaction. These experiments would elucidate the binding mechanism between SNC80 and NCX1 and reveal more information on the mechanism of action for SNC80. 

We agree that further definition of the mechanism of action is an important next step for this work; however, it is far beyond the scope of the present study.

(5) The manuscript notes that histological analysis was conducted, but it seems that only example images are provided, such as Figure 4f. Quantified histological data would provide a more thorough understanding of tissue integrity. 

We have added quantified histological data to the manuscript that was performed by a clinician blinded to the groups and interventions (Figure 4f).

(6) Some of the points mentioned in the discussion and conclusion are rather strong and based on possible associations such as SNC80's potential vasodilatory capacity conferring a cardioprotective effect, and ability to reversibly suppress metabolism across different temperatures and species. Please tone this down and stay limited to the organs studied. Further, the reversibility of the findings may be more objectively assessed by biomarkers with decreased immunofluorescence in response to ischemia such as troponin I for the heart and albumin for the liver. Additionally, an investigation of proteins involved in inflammation, hypoxia, and key cell death pathways using immunohistochemistry analysis can better describe the impact of treatment on apoptosis/necroptosis. 

We have revised aspects of the Discussion and Conclusion to focus on the organs studied in the present work (pgs. 14-17). We agree that markers of inflammation, hypoxia, and cell death are critical for assessing tissue health post-treatment. We performed PCR to assess such markers (Figure 4e) and found reductions in inflammatory cytokine and injury biomarker levels. Although we agree that immunohistochemistry may be useful, such as for looking at any spatial patterns of injury, PCR offers broader dynamic range and higher sensitivity and therefore was chosen for this assay.

(7) What could be the underlying cause of the observed increase in intercellular spacing after SNC80 administration in porcine limbs which also seems to be evident in the heart histology samples? This seems to be more prominent in the SNC80 compared to the vehicle group. 

Since the muscle bundle areas of baseline and treated tissues were essentially the same, the increase in intracellular space in the SNC80-treated tissue suggests a compensatory reduction in muscle fiber diameter.  Intracellular metabolite concentrations have been shown to be quite stable over a large range of metabolic activities (Hochachka et al. 1998). As such, a reduction in metabolic activity induced by SNC80 may suggest reduction in the accumulation of intracellular metabolites. In order to maintain a stable intracellular metabolite concentration, water would have to be expelled accounting for the increased intracellular space.

P W Hochachka, G B McClelland, G P Burness, J F Staples, R K Suarez Comp Biochem Physiol B Biochem Mol Biol 120, 17–26 (1998).

(8) In the Discussion section, it would be valuable to provide a concise interpretation of the lipidomic data, particularly explaining how changes in acylcarnitine and cholesterol ester levels may relate to tadpole metabolism, hibernation, or other biological processes. 

An interpretation of the lipidomics data has been summarized in the Discussion (pg. 14).

(9) What are the limitations or disadvantages of the study? Does SNC80 possess any immunomodulatory properties that might affect the outcomes of organ transplantation? Are there specific organs for which SNC80 may not be a suitable preservation agent, and if so, what are the reasons behind this? 

This study is limited in two ways. The first is that we characterized the function of the donor pig heart outside of the body, and therefore future work will be required to verify the function and quality of the hearts after they have been transplanted. Secondly, SNC80 is not currently approved for use in clinical settings and during earlier pre-clinical trials of the drug, side effects including seizures were noted and its development was halted. It is hypothesized that these seizures are related to SNC80’s delta opioid activity, so we developed a new, non-opioid analog called WB3, which will be used in future work. We have added a description of the prior seizure findings to the text (pg. 5).

Based on assessment of tissue biomarkers by PCR, it seems that SNC80 does exhibit immunomodulating properties. Because organ transplant recipients are treated with strong immunosuppressants to prevent organ rejection, we anticipate that SNC80 would either further support this goal, have little additional effect, or reduce the amount of additional immunosuppressive drugs that would need to be administered. To date, our data does not suggest that there are specific organs for which SNC80 may not be a suitable preservation agent.     

Reviewer #2:

(1) The authors developed an analog of a known delta opioid receptor activator SNC80 with three orders of magnitude lesser binding with the delta opioid receptor WB3. This will likely reduce the undesirable effects of SNC80 while preserving the metabolic slowing needed for organ preservation. Yet, most experiments were done with SNC80, not the superior modification, WB3, shown in only a limited set of experiments, Figure 3.  

We included the WB3 studies in Xenopus to confirm that the biostatic activity is not mediated through the delta opioid receptor. We have only performed a limited number of experiments with WB3 because we are focused on improving its solubility so that it can be easily dissolved in common organ perfusates without DMSO, which we were able to use in the Xenopus experiments. 

(2) The heart is one of the most challenging organs to preserve, and some experiments are done to establish the metabolic effects of SNC80. However, the biodistribution study, shown in Figure 2, conspicuously omitted the heart. 

Thank you for this suggestion. We returned to the biodistribution study dataset and were able to measure uptake by the heart at the 1-hour time point. We observe an increase in uptake above levels observed for other tissues at 1 hour and at levels similar to the skeletal muscle at 2 hours (plot below). Unfortunately, the heart was not visible in a sufficient number of Xenopus tissue sections to reevaluate uptake at the 2-hour time point. We were also able to re-evaluate the lipidomics data for the heart. Acylcarnitine and cholesterol ester were not significantly different between vehicle and SNC80-treated groups. The lack of change in acylcarnitine is particularly important since its upregulation has been shown to be a marker for cardiovascular disease in humans (Deda et al. 2022). The expanded lipidomics data have been added to Figure 2.

Deda O, Panteris E, Meikopoulos T, Begou O, Mouskeftara T, Karagiannidis E, Papazoglou AS, Sianos G, Theodoridis G, Gika H. Correlation of serum acylcarnitines with clinical presentation and severity of coronary artery disease. Biomolecules. 2022 Feb 23;12(3):354.

Author response image 1.

(3) I do not understand the design of the electrophysiology and contractility experiments with the porcine hearts. How did you defibrillate the hearts after removal and establishing perfusion? Lines 173-175 on Page 7 state: "After defibrillation with epinephrine, the P and QRS waveforms were visible in ECGs from 3 of 4 SNC80-treated hearts (Table S1), suggesting that those hearts regain atrial and ventricular polarization." Please clarify.

Defibrillation is done with an electric shock. Also, please show the ECG recordings to support your conclusions about "polarization." What did you mean by "polarization"? Depolarization? Repolarization? Or resting potential. To establish a normal physiological state, please show ECG waveforms and present data on basic ECG characteristics: heart rate, PQ and QT intervals, and P and QRS durations. I recommend perfusion of the porcine heart with WB3, not only SNC80.  

Hearts were defibrillated by the application of a 10 to 30 Joule electrical shock delivered from internal paddles positioned at the right atrium (negative) across to the left ventricle (positive). Once rhythm was established, 0.5 ml of 1:1000 epinephrine was administered via the aortic inflow. Electrocardiogram (ECG) showed that both vehicle and SNC80-treated hearts exhibited irregular contractions after perfusate flush and during rewarming prior to defibrillation. After defibrillation (10-30 J electrical shock) followed by epinephrine, a regular heartbeat was established in 3 of 4 SNC80-treated hearts, exhibiting normal P and QRS waveforms (Table S1). That observation suggested that the intrinsic atrial and ventricular muscle fiber contractility was preserved, and the overall conduction system of the heart was viable. The pulse rates of SNC80-treated hearts were at or near normal for porcine hearts (70-120 beats/min) after defibrillation. Vehicle-treated hearts exhibited tachycardia following defibrillation, with all exhibiting pulse rates above the normal range for porcine hearts. We have added clarifying text and definitions (pg. 8). We have only performed a limited number of experiments with WB3 because we are focused on improving its solubility so that it can be easily dissolved in common organ perfusates without DMSO, which we were able to use in the Xenopus experiments.

(4) Pathology data also raises concerns. The histology images shown in Figure 4f are not quantified, and they show apparently higher levels of tissue disruption in SNC80-treated tissue vs vehicle-treated. The test (lines 169-171) confirms this concern: "In some hearts treated with SNC80, greater waviness of muscle fibers was observed, possibly indicating a state of muscle contraction."  

The histology images shown in Figure 4f were quantified and the myocardial injury score quantification show comparable histology between the groups.

(5) The apparent state of contracture suggests a higher degree of myocardial damage and a high intracellular calcium level in SNC80-treated hearts. 

The authors suggested that the sodium-calcium exchanger NCX is a possible target of SNC80 and could be responsible for the "hypometabolic state." However, NCX1 is critically important in the extrusion of cytosolic Ca2+ during the diastolic phase. Failure to remove excessive calcium and restore ionic homeostasis would lead to calcium overload and heart failure. 

The histological assessment doesn’t indicate a higher degree of myocardial damage in SNC80 treated hearts. Our data are not suggestive of high intracellular calcium buildup in SNC80treated hearts. If that were the case, we would have had challenges restoring the rhythm of the hearts on the Langendorff post-preservation, which was not observed.

(6) I am surprised the authors did not consider using the gold standard assay for measuring mitochondrial function in cells by the Seahorse Cell Mito Stress Test. 

Thank you for this important point. We have added data from the Seahorse Mitostress assay for the four human cell types (Caco-2, Huh7, LSEC and HUVEC) included in the Organ Chip experiments. We have added a description and an interpretation of the results in the section Stasis induction in cultured human cells and tissues. We now mention the role of glycolysis and cytosolic reductive carboxylation as compensatory mechanisms.   

Reviewer #3:

(1) The authors perform a literature search to identify SNC80 as a promising hit. However, the details of the literature search, a list of other potential hits, and the criteria for identification of SNC80 are not described. The hypometabolic effect of SNC80 exposure is well-characterized in the Xenopus model. Furthermore, the authors show that SNC80 localises to the brain, but do not discuss several studies that have pointed to convulsions induced by exposure to high doses of SCN80, and whether this would be apparent in the Xenopus studies. The authors have promising data on the WB3 morpholino that retains or even improves on the hypometabolism phenotype of SCN80 while likely not retaining delta opioid activity. However, this is not functionally demonstrated. Moreover, WB3 is not used in any of the other assays and models used in the study. In the setting of cardiac transplant surgery, co-administration of SNC80 reduces metabolic activity and inflammation, although it is unclear if there is an improvement in recovery of organ function due to SCN80.

Thank you for raising these important points. We have added details of the process to identify SNC80 (pgs. 3-4) and a discussion of the studies pointing to convulsions with high doses of SNC80 (pg. 5) (which were not observed in Xenopus studies). We have also incorporated measurements of oxygen consumption during WB3 treatment in Xenopus (Figure 3d).

(2) The reversible induction of hypometabolic status is also demonstrated in two different organ chips. These models could identify the differential response of epithelial cells and vascular cells to drug perfusion, but the authors have mostly focused on the former. Finally, the authors identify specific targets for the hypometabolic effect of SNC80, which is a valuable resource for other screening studies and can form the basis for future work. 

In the revised manuscript, we have also added data from the Seahorse Mitostress assay for the four human cell types (Caco-2, Huh7, LSEC and HUVEC). We have added a description and an interpretation of the results in the section Stasis induction in cultured human cells and tissues. We highlight the differences in metabolic response from the four cell types to SNC80 treatment. It is important to note that the metabolism-suppressing effects of SNC80 were most potent in the epithelial cells that were originally derived from highly metabolic tumors (Caco-2 and Huh7) versus primary normal endothelial cells (HUVEC and LSEC), which is also consistent with past work suggesting that targeting of the NCX1 channel might offer a way to slow tumor growth (Wan et al. 2022). Because we observed more prominent effects in epithelial cells in 2D assays, we decided to focus the 3D organ chips assays on epithelial cells.

Wan, H. et al. NCX1 coupled with TRPC1 to promote gastric cancer via Ca2+/AKT/β-catenin pathway. Oncogene (2022) doi:10.1038/s41388-022-02412-9.

Recommendations for the authors:

Reviewer #1:

(1) Line 136, "Based on these intriguing findings with human Organ Chips". No mention of human organ chips was made in the text at this point, suggest rewording.  

Thank you for identifying this error. We have revised this line (pg. 6).

(2) Please provide more information on previous studies that have explored other drugs for organ protection, the novelty of the findings of this study, and how the findings of this study compare to prior data. 

Building on the background of organ preservation drugs provided in the Introduction, we have added details to compare our outcomes to other drugs explored for organ protection (pg. 15).

(3) The dosing study in Supplemental Figure S1 provides some context on why the authors utilized the 100 uM SNC80 concentration. It would be helpful if the authors could elaborate in the Discussion on the mechanistic rationale for this concentration. 

This dose was chosen to maximize suppression of metabolic and activity parameters, while ensuring reversibility of biostasis. We have clarified this in the Discussion (pg. 14).

(4) In Supplement Figure S2a, the y-axis measures the relative metabolic rate. It seems from the text that this is a relative measure of oxygen consumption, but it should be clarified accordingly. 

We have clarified this point in the Methods section.  

(5) What is the specific time or time frame when the reversed effect of SNC80 is most pronounced or at its peak? 

When Xenopus are moved to fresh medium after SNC80 treatment, we observe a 15-minute period during which no reversal is evident from motion measurements. After that period, we observe a gradual, linear recovery over 2 hours. We cannot designate a specific period in which the reversal effect is most pronounced from these data.

(6) WB3 seems to show a faster and stronger impact on swimming in comparison to SNC80. What could be the potential reasons for this difference, and could this have any clinical implications? 

From our current data, we understand the key difference to be that SNC80 has greater affinity for the delta opioid receptor compared to WB3. Therefore, we hypothesize that by not interacting with the opioid system, WB3 induces faster and stronger impacts on swimming. In mice, it has been shown that SNC80 directly inhibits forebrain GABAergic neurons via activity at their delta opioid receptors, which leads to convulsions (Chung et al. 2015). Although we do not observe seizure-like behavior in Xenopus, drugs that inhibit GABAergic neurons can produce stimulant effects in vivo. Since WB3 has a lower affinity for the delta opioid receptor, it likely produces less stimulation, leading to faster and stronger suppression of swimming behaviors. Additionally, it is possible that WB3 interacts with additional targets we have not yet identified.

Chung PC, Boehrer A, Stephan A, Matifas A, Scherrer G, Darcq E, Befort K, Kieffer BL. Delta opioid receptors expressed in forebrain GABAergic neurons are responsible for SNC80-induced seizures. Behavioural brain research. 2015 Feb 1;278:429-34.

(7) Elaborate on the potential significance of SNC80's distribution in the GI tract, gill region, and skeletal muscle. How might this distribution relate to the observed physiological effects? 

In Xenopus tadpoles, we observe SNC80 uptake in the gill region and GI tract within 1 hour. The multiple possible routes of uptake in Xenopus (skin, gills, and mouth) may account for the relatively rapid physiological effects observed in our experiments. The uptake observed in the muscle may be specifically responsible for the slowed motion observed in Xenopus activity assays. This has been elaborated upon in the text (pg. 5).

(8) Please use italics where needed, e.g., in vitro, in vivo, etc. 

This has been updated throughout the article.

(9) Supplemental Figure S1 - Is there any reason for having 3 replicates for the 100uM compared to the 4 replicates in the other groups? 

Each group had 4 replicates; however, a review of the replicates for the 100 µM group suggested the presence of a leak or air bubble in one oxygen measurement vial, which, therefore, had to be excluded from the analysis.

(10) Figure 3 description - 'c' should be bold. 

Figure 3 has been updated.

Reviewer #3:

Title: The title suggests that several candidate compounds are identified but the study focuses primarily on SCN80. Please consider rephrasing to make it more specific to this molecule. Alternatively, the manuscript would be significantly strengthened if more data is provided for WB3. 

Although the study focuses on SNC80, we introduce an entirely novel molecule, WB3, and therefore, we feel it is more appropriate to indicate that multiple molecules were studied.

Line 58-59: please cite additional primary literature papers for the different therapeutics discussed. As an example, the authors do not cite or discuss Massen et al PMID: 31743376 which suggests that H2S is able to induce similar hypometabolic effects even at 37C. 

Thank you for this suggestion. We have expanded our discussion of primary literature paper for the therapeutics discussed (pg. 15).

Line 76 - 77: The authors do not provide any data on the other possible hits from their literature search or methods details on how this was done. No relevant literature has been cited. What criteria were used to finalise SNC80? 

During our research program, we considered and tested other drugs (>100 existing compounds in Xenopus screens). Although the published hypothermic and tissue-protective effects suggested that SNC80 should be included in screening, it was not until we observed effects across multiple test parameters, systems, and species that we honed in on SNC80 as a lead compound. We have added additional information to further clarify the background of SNC80 on pgs. 3-4.  

Line 85 and Lines 342-345 in the Discussion: SNC80 is reported to induce convulsions at high doses in rodents and primates - was this also evident in the Xenopus studies? How does the dose used in the Xenopus studies compare with the high dose (ca. 10 mg/kg) used in primate studies Danielson et al., PMID: 17112570? 

We did not observe convulsions in SNC80-treated Xenopus. However, we have updated the manuscript to include previous observations of convulsions in rodents and primates treated with SNC80 (pg. 5). Due to a number of differences, it is challenging to directly compare the dosing in Xenopus studies to those in the primate. In the present study, groups of 10 Xenopus were exposed to a 10 mL pool of 100 µM SNC80, which may be absorbed via oral, gill, and skin routes. Primates were dosed with 10 mg/kg delivered intramuscularly. Because these models may result in different drug biodistributions, any direct comparisons would be speculative. Further work in rodent models may help clarify the relevant dosing differences.

Line 117: what does 'double the concentration' mean? Is this with reference to the dose of SNC80? If so, is this sufficient to completely block opioid receptor activity? 

Yes, we meant that naltrindole was dosed at double the concentration of SNC80. We have clarified this in the text (pg. 5). Prior work in rodent brain tissue has shown that radiolabeled naltrindole binds to saturation at picomolar to nanomolar concentrations (Yamamura et al. 1992). To confirm our initial observations with naltrindole and SNC80, we also tested a SNC80 analog (WB3) with very low delta opioid activity (Figure 3), which showed similar effects.

Yamamura MS, Horvath R, Toth G, Otvos F, Malatynska E, Knapp RJ, Porreca F, Hruby VJ, Yamamura HI.

Characterization of [3H] naltrindole binding to delta opioid receptors in rat brain. Life sciences. 1992 Jan 1;50(16):PL119-24.

Figure 3c, d: It appears that WB3 is even more effective at rapidly reducing motion and inducing faster recovery which is an exciting result. However, in 3d it appears that longterm exposure of 8h has detrimental effects since the heart rate remains depressed. Please clarify. 

Yes, at 8 hours, we observe slow recovery and, in some cases, maintenance of depressed heart rates. This could be because the drug is more lipophilic and might remain in fat tissue for longer times. Although our current goal is to lengthen the time window for heart transplant surgery to 6 hours, we are working on formulating WB3 to optimize safety for longer applications (8+ hours).

Figure 4: the experiments with the heart transplants are well done, but do not demonstrate an additional protective effect over the current standard of care except for the reduced metabolism. Could the authors discuss this further in the discussion or provide data with WB83, which may show a stronger effect? Scale bars are missing in panel f.  

In addition to reduced metabolism, we also demonstrate reduced expression of inflammation, hypoxia, and cell death-related markers compared to machine perfusion alone (Figure 4e). The potential protective effect of the biostasis-inducing compounds will be further investigated in a planned orthotopic porcine transplant study where pigs will be followed up for 6 hours post weaning off a bypass machine allowing enough time to assess potential benefit of biostasisinducing drugs. Additionally, we have added scale bars (Figure 4f).

Order of manuscript: Line 136 already refers to the organ-chip data, which is only presented at the end. Please edit. I feel the manuscript would flow better with the organchip data presented before the heart transplant data. 

Organ-chip data: this is an important component of the story but is only shown in supplementary figures. Consider showing this data in the main figures, as eLife has no space restrictions. Furthermore, it is unclear if the effluent collected and analysed is from apical or vascular, or both. In any case, the analysis via microscopy-based methods appears restricted to the epithelium. The manuscript would be significantly strengthened by providing some data on the effect of SNC80 on vascular cells. 

As requested, we have moved the Organ Chips results to a main figure (new Fig. 5). We have added additional experiments, including the Seahorse Mitostress assay for the four human cell types (Caco-2, Huh7, LSEC and HUVEC). We have added a description and an interpretation of the results in the section Stasis induction in cultured human cells and tissues. The 2D assays showed that metabolism-suppressing effects of SNC80 were most potent in the epithelial cells that were originally derived from highly metabolic tumors (Caco-2 and Huh7) versus endothelial cells (HUVEC and LSEC). Based on these results, we decided to focus the 3D organ chips assays on epithelial cells only, and hence only analyzed effluents from the epithelial (apical) channel.

Methods section for fabrication of oxygen sensors: Please refer to prior papers from your lab (Grant et al., PMID: 35274118) with regards to details of the fabrication of the devices with inbuilt oxygen sensors. 

The methods used for the fabrication of oxygen sensors will be included in a separate manuscript currently in preparation.  

Figure S3 and Line 243-244: Please provide the data for untreated control organ chips in panels d and e a mean value for which is quoted in the main text. The images in panel f are too small for the reader to appreciate the point, please provide zooms. Scalebars are also missing from these images. Please increase the number of replicates for S3f - the liver-chip data has only two replicates which has very low power for statistical testing. In general, the number of organ chips used for the data for each panel is missing. 

As mentioned in the captions, Figure S3 (now Figure S5) panels d and e show average albumin production of Liver Chips at day 7-10 of culture. These measurements were performed before any treatment with SNC80 to characterize the chip’s functional metabolism. In panel g, although we only show biological N=2-3, each datapoint corresponds to an average of multiple fields of view (multiple technical replicates). We have now clarified this in the figure legend.

Figure S4 - I do not quite understand why the perfusion with the vehicle only also affects oxygen release in the liver chip. Is it possible to use a different vehicle? 

The liver and gut oxygen levels are not on the same y-axis (gut on the left and liver on the right). The oxygen fold change of the liver control chip is below 0.5, which is in the same range as the gut control chip (0 +/- 0.25). There is a natural variation in oxygen consumption over the lifetime of the chips (now Figure 5c), and untreated cells are metabolically active and consuming oxygen. The small drop observed suggests that liver chips may not have reached a stable oxygen consumption rate at the time of the experiment, whereas the gut chips have stabilized.  

Figure S5c-f: The units on the Y-axis are missing. 

Panels S5c-d (now Figure S6c-d) depict the percent cytotoxicity and are thus unitless. Panels S5e-h (now Figure S6e-h) show the effluent levels relative to baseline and are also unitless. We have updated the figure caption to clarify this.

eLife assessment

This important study highlights the importance of SLAM-SAP signaling in determining innate gamma-delta T cell sublineages and their T cell receptor repertoires. It uncovers the complex role of the SLAM-SAP pathway in developing specific gamma-delta T cell subsets. The evidence presented is compelling, backed by high-quality data obtained through advanced single cell proteogenomics techniques.This work will be of broad interest to immunologists.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

Summary:<br /> In this study the authors advance their previous findings on the role of the SLAM-SAP signaling pathway in the development and function of multiple innate-like gamma-delta T cell subsets. Using high throughput single cell proteogenomics approach, the authors uncover SAP-dependent developmental checkpoints, and the role of SAP signaling in regulating the diversion of γδ T cells into the αβ T cell developmental pathway. Finally, the authors define TRGV4/TRAV13-4(DV7)-expressing T cells as a novel, SAP-dependent Vγ4 γδT1 subset.

Strengths:<br /> This study furthers our understanding of the importance and complexity of the SLAM-SAP signaling pathway not only in the development of innate-like γδ T cells but also the how it potentially balances the γδ/αβ T cell lineage commitment. Additionally, this study reveals the role of SAP-dependent events in generation of γδ TCR repertoire.

Comments on revised version:

The conclusions of the study are supported by well thought-out experiments and compelling data.

Weaknesses:<br /> There are no major weakness in the study.

A few minor points:<br /> (1) In the subsets of the γδ T cells that exhibit reduced BLK expression in B6. SAP KO mice, have the authors examined the expression of Lck and/or Fyn?<br /> (2) Does BLK directly associate with SLAM F1 and or SLAM F6 receptors?<br /> (3) Given the emerging role of γδ T cells in host immunity, it will be useful if the authors add a discussion of how their findings are relevant in disease conditions such as in cancer.

The author has adequately addressed all the reviewers' comments.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Summary:<br /> Mistri et al explore the role of SLAM-SAP signaling in the developmental programming of innate-like gd T cell subsets. Using proteo-genomics, they determined that abrogation of SLAM-SAP signaling altered that programming, reducing some IL-17 producing subsets, including a novel Vγ4 γδT1 subset, and diverting gdTCR-expressing precursors to the ab fate. Altogether, this is a very thorough, thoughtfully interpreted study that adds significantly to our understanding of the contribution of the SLAM-SAP pathway to lineage specification. A particularly interesting element is the role of SLAM-SAP in preventing gd17 progenitors from switching fates and adopting the ab fate.

Comments on revised version:

The authors have addressed the minor issues raised in the original submission.

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

Reviewer #1:

(1)  In the subsets of the γδ T cells that exhibit reduced BLK expression in B6. SAP KO mice, have the authors examined the expression of Lck and/or Fyn? 

The reviewer raises an excellent point. We have included in the revised manuscript additional data on Lck and Fyn expression in our scRNAseq dataset in (new Suppl. Fig. 1 and new Suppl. Fig. 4). These data revealed that in contrast to Blk, which appears primarily restricted to the γδT17 clusters, Lck and Fyn exhibit a much broader distribution and lack restriction to specific clusters. We did note that, like Blk, Lck and Fyn transcripts were abundant in SAP-dependent C2 cluster cells. Pseudobulk analysis on the immature clusters revealed that, neither Fyn nor Lck expression level differences reached our cut-off of 0.5 log2 FC (log2 FC Blk = 1.06), leading us to conclude that Blk is particularly dependent on SAP. We did note, however, that the magnitude of Lck differential expression was close to the 0.5 log2 FC cut-off and that its expression was increased in B6.SAP-/- γδ T cells (Suppl. Fig. 4). These results have been added to lines 202-212 in the Results section and lines 491-499 in the Discussion section.

(2)  Does BLK directly associate with SLAM F1 and or SLAM F6 receptors? 

The reviewer raises an interesting question given previous reports that BLK, LCK, and FYN have all been implicated in γδ T cell development. While SAP has a well-known ability to recruit FYN to SLAMF1 and there is evidence of a similar SAP-mediated recruitment of LCK to SLAMF6, we are not aware of any evidence a SAP-BLK interaction or of a direct binding of BLK to SLAM family receptors. Future experiments to investigate this possiibility are certainly warranted. In the revised ms, we have included additional discussion of these possibilities (lines 491- 499).  

(3)  Given the emerging role of γδ T cells in host immunity, it would be useful if the authors could add a discussion of how their findings are relevant in disease conditions such as cancer. 

We agree and have included new text in the Introduction (lines 37-45). 

(4)  Delete repeated words in lines 546 and line 553. 

Thank you—this has been corrected in the revised manuscript.

Reviewer #2:

This is a very complete study and requires no additional experimentation. One thing to keep in mind in assessing the ultimate fate of the "ab wannabe cells" is that mechanisms exist to silence the gd TCR as cells differentiate to the DP stage and so their presence as diverted DP cells may not be evident by staining for gdTCR expression - and will only be evident transcriptomically. 

We appreciate this helpful comment from the reviewer which we will take into consideration in our future experimental design.

There are a couple of minor points to raise: 

(1)  Figure 3C is not called out in the text. 

Thank you—this has been corrected in the revised manuscript.

(2)  Line 546 - "dependent" is repeated.

Thank you—this has been corrected in the revised manuscript.

eLife assessment

This valuable study reports that while most plasmacytoid dendritic cells (pDCs) originate from common dendritic cell precursors, approximately 20% are derived from lymphoid progenitors shared with B cells. The methodology used and the evidence are solid, and further demonstrate the distinct transcription factor requirements and activities of this subset of pDCs, although the functional significance of this dendritic cell subset will require further elucidation. The findings will be of great interest for those interested in the developmental and functional biology of the immune system.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

Summary:

Plasmacytoid dendritic cells (pDCs) represent a specialized subset of dendritic cells (DCs) known for their role in producing type I interferons (IFN-I) in response to viral infections. It was believed that pDCs originated from common DC progenitors (CDP). However, recent studies by Rodrigues et al. (Nature Immunology, 2018) and Dress et al. (Nature Immunology, 2019) have challenged this perspective, proposing that pDCs predominantly develop from lymphoid progenitors expressing IL-7R and Ly6D. A minor subset of pDCs arising from CDP has also been identified as functionally distinct, exhibiting reduced IFN-I production but a strong capability to activate T cell responses. On the other hand, clonal lineage tracing experiments, as recently reported by Feng et al. (Immunity, 2022), have demonstrated a shared origin between pDCs and conventional DCs (cDCs), suggesting a contribution of common DC precursors to the pDC lineage.

In this context, Araujo et al. investigated the heterogeneity of pDCs in terms of both development and function. Their findings revealed that approximately 20% of pDCs originate from lymphoid progenitors common to B cells. Using Mb1-Cre x Bcl11a floxed mice, the authors demonstrated that the development of this subset of pDCs, referred to as "B-pDCs," relied on the transcription factor BCL11a. Functionally, B-pDCs exhibited a diminished capacity to produce IFN-I in response to TLR9 agonists but secreted more IL-12 compared to conventional pDCs. Moreover, B-pDCs, either spontaneously or upon activation, exhibited increased expression of activation markers (CD80/CD86/MHC-II) and a heightened ability to activate T cell responses in vitro compared to conventional pDCs. Finally, Araujo et al. characterized these B-pDCs at the transcriptomic level using bulk and single-cell RNA sequencing, revealing them as a unique subset of pDCs expressing certain B cell markers such as Mb1, as well as specific markers (Axl) associated with cells recently described as transitional DCs.<br /> Thus, in contrast to previous findings, this study posits that a small proportion of pDCs derive from B cell-committed lymphoid progenitors, and this subset of B-pDCs exhibits distinct functional characteristics, being less specialized in IFN-I production but rather in T cell activation.

Strengths:

Previously, the same research group delineated the significance of BCL11a as a critical transcription factor in pDC development (Ippolito et al., PNAS, 2014). This study elucidates the precise stage during hematopoiesis at which BCL11a expression becomes essential for the emergence of a distinct subset of pDCs, substantiated by robust genetic evidence in vivo. Furthermore, it underscores the shared developmental origin between pDCs and B cells, reinforcing prior research in the field that suggests a lymphoid origin of pDCs. Finally, this works attributes specific functional properties to pDCs originating from these lymphoid progenitors shared with B cells, emphasizing the early imprinting of functional heterogeneity during their development.

Weaknesses:

Using their Mb1-reporter mice, the authors demonstrate that YFP pDCs originating from lymphoid progenitors are functionally distinct from conventional pDCs, mostly in vitro, but their in vivo relevance remains unknown. As underlined by both reviewers I believe that it is crucial to investigate how Bcl11a conditional deficiency in Mb1 expressing cells affects the anti-viral immune response, for example, using the M-CoV infection model as described by Sulczewski et al. in Nature Immunology, 2023. The current in vivo data using TLR9 agonist and in vitro data using B-pDCs co-cultures with T cells insufficiently address what B-pDCs might be doing in infectious contexts.

Revisions:

I thank the authors for their responses to my questions and for addressing most of my comments clearly and thoroughly. However, one major question remains unanswered: What is the functional relevance of the subset of B-pDCs that they have characterized? This key question, also highlighted by the other reviewer, requires further investigation. The current in vivo data using TLR9 agonist and in vitro data using B-pDCs co-cultures with T cells insufficiently address what B-pDCs might be doing in infectious contexts.

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

Public Reviews:

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

Summary:

Plasmacytoid dendritic cells (pDCs) represent a specialized subset of dendritic cells (DCs) known for their role in producing type I interferons (IFN-I) in response to viral infections. It was believed that pDCs originated from common DC progenitors (CDP). However, recent studies by Rodrigues et al. (Nature Immunology, 2018) and Dress et al. (Nature Immunology, 2019) have challenged this perspective, proposing that pDCs predominantly develop from lymphoid progenitors expressing IL-7R and Ly6D. A minor subset of pDCs arising from CDP has also been identified as functionally distinct, exhibiting reduced IFN-I production but a strong capability to activate T-cell responses. On the other hand, clonal lineage tracing experiments, as recently reported by Feng et al. (Immunity, 2022), have demonstrated a shared origin between pDCs and conventional DCs (cDCs), suggesting a contribution of common DC precursors to the pDC lineage.

In this context, Araujo et al. investigated the heterogeneity of pDCs in terms of both development and function. Their findings revealed that approximately 20% of pDCs originate from lymphoid progenitors common to B cells. Using Mb1-Cre x Bcl11a floxed mice, the authors demonstrated that the development of this subset of pDCs, referred to as "B-pDCs," relied on the transcription factor BCL11a. Functionally, B-pDCs exhibited a diminished capacity to produce IFN-I in response to TLR9 agonists but secreted more IL-12 compared to conventional pDCs. Moreover, B-pDCs, either spontaneously or upon activation, exhibited increased expression of activation markers (CD80/CD86/MHC-II) and a heightened ability to activate T-cell responses in vitro compared to conventional pDCs. Finally, Araujo et al. characterized these B-pDCs at the transcriptomic level using bulk and single-cell RNA sequencing, revealing them as a unique subset of pDCs expressing certain B cell markers such as Mb1, as well as specific markers (Axl) associated with cells recently described as transitional DCs.

Thus, in contrast to previous findings, this study posits that a small proportion of pDCs derive from B cell-committed lymphoid progenitors, and this subset of B-pDCs exhibits distinct functional characteristics, being less specialized in IFN-I production but rather in T cell activation.

Strengths:

Previously, the same research group delineated the significance of BCL11a as a critical transcription factor in pDC development (Ippolito et al., PNAS, 2014). This study elucidates the precise stage during hematopoiesis at which BCL11a expression becomes essential for the emergence of a distinct subset of pDCs, substantiated by robust genetic evidence in vivo. Furthermore, it underscores the shared developmental origin between pDCs and B cells, reinforcing prior research in the field that suggests a lymphoid origin of pDCs. Finally, this work attributes specific functional properties to pDCs originating from these lymphoid progenitors shared with B cells, emphasizing the early imprinting of functional heterogeneity during their development.

Weaknesses:

The authors delineate a subset of pDCs dependent on the BCL11a transcription factor, originating from lymphoid progenitors, and compare it to conventional pDCs, which they suggest differentiate from common DC progenitors of myeloid origin. However, this interpretation lacks support from the authors' data. Their single-cell RNA sequencing data identifies cells corresponding to progenitors (Prog2), from which the majority of pDCs, termed conventional pDCs, likely originate. This progenitor cell population expresses Il7r, Siglech, and Ly6D, but not Csfr1. The authors describe this progenitor as resembling a "pro-pDC myeloid precursor," yet these cells align more closely with lymphoid (Il7r+) progenitors described by Rodrigues et al. (Nature Immunology, 2018) and Dress et al. (Nature Immunology, 2019). Furthermore, analysis of their Mb1 reporter mice reveals that only a fraction of common lymphoid progenitors (CLP) express YFP, giving rise to a fraction of YFP+ pDCs. However, this does not exclude the possibility that YFP- CLP could also give rise to pDCs. The authors could address this caveat by attempting to differentiate pDCs from both YFP+ and YFP- CLPs in vitro in the presence of FLT3L. Additionally, transfer experiments using these lymphoid progenitors could be conducted in vivo to assess their differentiation potential in competitive settings.

Dear Reviewer 1, we appreciate your thoughtful comments. We made the decision to address the Prog2 cluster as “pro-pDC myeloid precursor” because despite its lack of CSFR-1, its CIPR similarity score showed highest transcriptional similarity to the population “SC.CDP.BM” (GEO accession number: GSM791114), which is shown to be Sca1- Flt3+ cKitlo.

A similar population identified as “common dendritic cell progenitor” is shown by Onai and colleagues (Onai et al. 2013, Immunity) to be capable of differentiating into pDCs by upregulating E2-2 and subsequently downregulating M-CSFR. In addition, we were unable to infer a developmental trajectory between Prog2 and B-pDCs using SimplePPT on Monocle3 (Figure 5B). Since we know our B-pDCs are CLP derived and most likely share a B cell progenitor population, we feel this lack of connectivity to the UMAP myeloid partition corroborates our assignment of Prog2 as a myeloid pDC progenitor (not CLP derived). Of note, recent work by Medina and colleagues has shown that while IL-7Rα knockout mice exhibit a block in B cell development at the all-lymphoid progenitor (ALP) stage, PDCA-1+ pDCs identified within the initially gated BLP population persisted (PLoS One, 2013), suggesting the IL7R chain is not required for the development of PDCA1+ cells. 

Using their Mb1-reporter mice, the authors demonstrate that YFP pDCs originating from lymphoid progenitors are functionally distinct from conventional pDCs, mostly in vitro, but their in vivo relevance remains unknown. It is crucial to investigate how Bcl11a conditional deficiency in Mb1-expressing cells affects the anti-viral immune response, for example, using the M-CoV infection model as described by Sulczewski et al. in Nature Immunology, 2023. Particularly, the authors suggest that their B-pDCs act as antigen-presenting cells involved in T-cell activation compared to conventional pDCs. However, these findings contrast with those of Rodrigues et al., who have shown that pDCs of myeloid origin are more effective than pDCs of lymphoid origin in activating T-cell responses. The authors should discuss these discrepancies in greater detail. It is also notable that B-PDCs acquire the expression of ID2 (Figure S3A), commonly a marker of conventional/myeloid DCs. The authors could analyze in more detail the acquisition of specific myeloid features (CD11c, CX3CR1) by this B-PDCs subset and discuss how the expression of ID2 may impair classical pDC features, as ID2 is a repressor of E2-2, a master regulator of pDC fate.

Both reviewers expressed the need to further investigate how Bcl11a conditional deficiency in Mb1-expressing cells affects anti-viral responses of B-pDCs. While the functional characterization of B-pDC in the context of infection could be highly informative, it is really outside the scope of the present study. Our discovery that B-pDCs expand robustly upon TLR-9 agonist challenges in vivo and can prime T cells in vitro efficiently, however, suggests that these cells might play an important role during viral infections or anti-cancer immunity.

Finally, through the analysis of their single-cell RNA sequencing data, the authors show that the subset of B-pDCs they identified expresses Axl, confirmed at the protein level. Given this specific expression profile, the authors suggest that B-pDCs are related to a previously described subset of transitional DCs, which were reported to share a common developmental path with pDCs, (Sulczewski et al. in Nature Immunology, 2023). While intriguing, this observation requires further phenotypic and functional characterization to substantiate this claim.

We agree with the reviewer’s comments. We are currently preparing a separate manuscript addressing the commonalities between human transitional DCs and murine non-conventional pDCs.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Summary:

The origin of plasmatoid dendritic cells and their subclasses continues to be a debated field, akin to any immune cell field that is determined through the expression of surface markers (relative to clear subclass separation based on functional biology and experimentation). In this context, in this manuscript by Araujo et al, the authors attempt to demonstrate that a subtype of pDCs comes from lymphoid origin due to the presence of some B cell gene expression markers. They nomenclature these cells as B-pDCs. Strikingly, pDCs function via expression of IFNa where as B-pDCs do not express IFNa - thereby raising the question of what are their physiological or pathophysiological properties. B-pDCs also express AXL, a marker not seen in mouse pDCs but observed in human pDCs. Overall, using a combination of gene expression profiling of immune cells isolated from mice via RNA-seq and single-cell profiling the authors propose that B-pDCs are a novel subtype of pDCs in mice that were not previously identified and characterized.

Weaknesses:

My two points of discussion about this manuscript are as follows.

(1) How new are these observations that pDCs could also originate from common lymphoid progenitors. This fact has been previously outlined by many laboratories including Shigematsu et al, Immunity 2004. These studies in the manuscript can be considered new based on the single-cell profiling presented, only if the further characterization of the isolated B-pDCs is performed at the functional biology level. Overlapping gene expression profiles are often seen in developing immune cell types- especially when only evaluated at the RNA expression level- and can lead to cell type complexity (and identification of new cell types) that are not biologically and functionally relevant.

Dear reviewer 2, we appreciate your thoughtful comments. We believe our single cell seq analysis adds new information to the studies mentioned because of our broader approach to BM profiling. By using only one marker (PDCA1+), scRNA-seq allowed us to dissect not only several subpopulations of pDCs that to our knowledge were not previously dissected in mice, but also linked the transcriptional similarity of B-pDCs to myeloid derived pDCs (and even other myeloid cell types), as well as B cells.

(2) The authors hardly perform any experiments to interrogate the function of these B-pDCs. The discussion on this topic can be enhanced. Ideally, some biological experiments would confirm that B-pDCs are important.

Dear reviewer 2, we appreciate your thoughtful comment and agree about the need for further functional characterization of B-pDCs (please see comments directed to reviewer 1 above).

(1) Considering that Bcl11a conditional deficiency severely impacts the B cell lineage, there is a possibility that such an effect on B cells may indirectly influence pDC development. To address this, the authors could repeat their bone marrow transfer experiments in a competitive setting by mixing both Bcl11a WT and CKO BM cells (using congenic markers to track the origin of the BM cells) and then specifically assess whether BM cells originating from Bcl11a CKO donors have impaired pDC output.

Dear reviewer 2, while the comment above is valid (that the reduced number of mature B cells in our Bcl11a conditional knockout might indirectly impact B-pDC development), we and many others have previously shown that lack of transcriptional regulation of E2-2 and other pDC differentiation modulators by Bcl11a  (including ID2 and MTG16) intrinsically and selectively disrupts the pDC lineage. At the current stage, we feel rederiving Bcl11a cKOs and performing bone marrow transfers (which usually take several months) only to investigate indirect effects of B cells on pDC developments is outside the scope of this publication.

(2) As mentioned earlier, it is important to assess the potential of CLP, whether YFP- or YFP+, in their ability to give rise to pDCs both in vitro and in vivo. This is also crucial since the authors previously demonstrated that Bcl11a deficiency in all hematopoietic cells had a more drastic impact on pDC development than mb1-cre specific deficiency.

We agree the manuscript could be strengthened by differentiation experiments. However, in our previous publication (mentioned above by the reviewer), we specifically show that although fewer overall LSK progenitors were detected in Vav-Cre+ F/F mice, both MDP and CDP progenitor populations persisted within the Flt3+ compartment in cKO mice at percentages similar to controls. MDP (Lin– Flt3+ Sca-1− CD115+ c-kithi); CDP (Lin– Flt3+ Sca-1− CD115+ c-kitlo). This data confirms that CLPs give rise to a substantial pool of pDC subpopulations. Other works have shown this as well, both in vivo and in vitro (Wang et al. Immunity 2004;  Karsunky et al, JEM 2003, etc). We therefore feel that confirming the previous observations that CLPs can give rise to pDCs is unnecessary, as our main goal in this manuscript was to describe a new pDC subpopulation that emerges primarily from CD79a+ B cell biased progenitors.

(3) The authors show a more severe impact of Bcl11a CKO on pDC depletion in the spleen than in the BM. Is this effect specific to the spleen, or can it also be observed in lymph nodes? What is the overall impact of Bcl11a conditional deficiency on pDC distribution in tissues such as the liver and lung? These questions are important to address to understand whether the heterogeneity of pDCs is differentially affected by their localization.

We agree heterogeneity of pDCs can be affected by their microenvironment. Although phenotyping of lymph nodes in Bcl11a cKOs would greatly add to our manuscript, the genetically altered strains required are no longer being bred in our facility and resurrecting them from frozen sperm is outside the realm of this publication.

(4) Regarding the functional study of pDCs, as emphasized previously, it is important to assess the in vivo relevance of B-pDCs in infectious settings.

Dear reviewer 2, we appreciate your thoughtful comment. Please see our response directed to reviewer 1 above.

(5) The authors injected CpG-ODN into mice and analyzed pDC phenotype upon activation. It is important to note that upon activation, especially upon induction of IFN-I production in vivo, mPDCA1 expression is no longer specific to pDCs  (Blasius et al, Journal of Immunology, 2006). Therefore, to specifically characterize pDC phenotype upon activation, a differential gating strategy is required (CD11c, B220, Ly6C, and Siglec H) to ensure that bona fide pDCs are analyzed.

We agree with the reviewer that this would be a more appropriate characterization. Regarding PDCA1 promiscuity in activated states, we are not aware of any cell types that express very high levels of B220 and PDCA1 simultaneously other than pDCs. We therefore firmly believe that our assignment is valid. Interestingly, gating B220+ cells of Cpg challenged mice that show intermediate expression of PDCA1 results in an increase in the frequency of CD19+ B cells, which we were careful to avoid by gating only the cells that most strongly express PDCA1.

(6) How does pDC activation regulate their mb1 expression? Could conventional pDCs, upon activation, become B-PDCs? Could activation and induction of IFN-I production in vivo also affect CLP and increase the amount of YFP+ lymphoid progenitors and thus B-pDC output?

Dear reviewer, we agree with your concern, albeit beyond the scope of the present study. While changes in YFP MFI via flow cytometry upon vaccination was not substantial, we have included the following comment in the manuscript discussion, acknowledging the aforementioned possibility: “Of note, whether induction of IFN-I production in vivo could also affect CLP and increase the amount of YFP+ lymphoid progenitors and thus B-pDC output is unclear. Further research is required to answer this question.”

(7) If pDCs are preferentially expanding upon in vivo stimulation, it would be informative to assess their Ki67 profile. This is a surprising observation since pDCs are generally considered quiescent cells that were previously described to die in response to activation and IFN-I (Swiecki et al, Journal of Experimental Medicine, 2011).

We agree and have entered the following statement to address this concern: “Functionally, they expand more readily after TLR9 engagement than classical pDCs (either through increased proliferation or differentiation of other cell types) and excel at activating T cells in culture.”

(8) How does the conditional deficiency of BCL11a affect the production of IFN-I and IL-12 in vivo (serum) upon CpG-ODN stimulation?

Dear reviewer 2, we are currently unable to rederive the conditional knockout mouse strain in a timely fashion. However, our ELISA experiments performed under controlled in vitro activation conditions, along with the in vivo findings of Zhang et al.(PNAS 2017) warrants the hypothesis that B-pDCs most likely exhibit a similar cytokine secreting profile under inflammatory conditions.

(9) Given that B-PDCs show downregulation of pDC canonical markers, including IRF8 and TLR7, could the authors address how B-PDCs respond to TLR7 stimulation in vitro and assess a broader spectrum of cytokines produced by pDCs in response to such stimulation (IL-6, TNFa, CXCL10...)?

Dear reviewer 2, although expanding our findings to include B-pDC responses to TLR-7 stimulation would greatly enhance our manuscript, a technical deterrent stands in our way. As mentioned prior, sorting B-pDCs for new experiments using reporter YFP mice is currently not possible, as we have retired this mouse strain. Sorting of live CD79a+ BpDCs via FACS is also not feasible, as CD79a staining with most antibody clones requires permeabilization of cells for easier access to the intra-membrane portion of CD79a.

(10) It would be informative to compare scRNA sequencing data between control and Bcl11a CKO mice to ascertain their contribution to B-PDCs and whether this deficiency may affect other pDC clusters and/or progenitors.

We are unable to sort B-pDCs for new experiments, as we unfortunately retired the transgenic colony.

(11) Transitional DCs were reported to give rise to a subset of cDC2. Given that the authors claim that B-PDCs are related to this subset of transitional DCs, could the authors observe any YFP staining in cDC2 upon the generation of their BM chimeras?

We saw no YFP positivity in CD11c hi cells (cDCs) via flow or through scRNA-seq, indicating CD79a expression is unique in mature B cells and B-pDCs.

(12) Most of the statistical analysis is done with a student test. This requires a normal distribution of the sample which is highly unlikely given the size of the sample. Therefore, the authors shall rather use a non-parametric test (Mann Whitney) to compare their samples.

We agree and have redone our statistical analyses using non-parametric test (Mann Whitney).

eLife assessment

This important study examines E. coli growth and division, suggesting that inhomogeneous organization of ribosomes in the cytoplasm results in cell size-dependent growth rate perturbations. The work is conceptually appealing, but incomplete due to shortcomings in the experiments and modeling.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

Summary:

The manuscript by van Heerden et al. reports growth rate variations in the cell cycle of E. coli and links this variation to uneven ribosome concentrations in the cell at birth that arise from an uneven division of cell volumes between the daughter cells. The authors propose a model to explain the experimental data, whose main premises are the exclusion of ribosomes from the nucleoid volume and a linear dependence of the growth rate on ribosome concentration in the cell.

Strengths:

(1) The manuscript highlights an interesting aspect of growth rate variability in bacteria and proposes a mechanism for how this variation is homeostatically corrected.

(2) A sophisticated modeling to explain the experimental data.

Weaknesses:

(1) The experiments lack controls. A partially functional label (L9-mCherry) can make ribosomes much more limiting for growth than are not labeled ribosomes.

(2) The large variation of interdivision times 72-89 min in repeat experiments in Glc is problematic. Some parameters in the measurements related to cell growth appear not properly controlled. It is problematic for a work that aims to establish a new universal behavior related to cell growth.

(3) The authors have not provided convincing evidence that cells in their experiment grow in a steady state.

4) The findings are over-generalized. The existing data show the effects only at some growth rates, but the findings are presented as a new universal principle.

5) The model relies on many assumptions that are not clearly brought out and the choice of model parameters is questionable (in some cases, the parameters seem to contradict well-established experimental data, including the one from the experiments from the very same work). Small changes in parameters and various approximations can have large effects on the model's outcomes; without understanding these responses, the model has a rather limited value.

6) There appears to be a qualitative discrepancy between the model and the experimental data in Glc (the main condition studied). The model predicts that the cells born large have a specific elongation rate that is smaller than the average growth rate of cells, but it grows in time at the beginning of the cell cycle, while the experiments show a decreasing growth rate (Figure 1C, SI Figure S2).

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Summary:

This work demonstrates that when E. coli cells divide, and division is not quite symmetric, the smaller cell has a higher growth rate than the larger cell at the beginning, but not the end, of the cell cycle. The authors then demonstrate that smaller cells have a higher ribosome concentration than larger cells, which is consistent with the idea that the two cells receive roughly equal numbers of ribosomes at division because, as they also observe, ribosomes are excluded by the nucleoid from the middle of the mother cell. The experimental observations are reproduced by a mathematical model that assumes growth is driven by ribosome concentration, with contributions from metabolism and active feedback.

Strengths:

The work provides strong evidence in support of the growing consensus that cells correct size fluctuations by modulating growth rate, within a cell cycle and on a single-cell basis. It also offers a plausible explanation for the correction mechanism by showing that ribosomes are excluded from the middle of a mother cell and have a higher concentration in the smaller daughter cell. The work is clearly written and benefits from a strong coupling between the experimental and modeling results. It provides a solid contribution to the field of single-cell bacterial growth control.

Weaknesses:

Although the results strongly suggest it, the work does not explicitly demonstrate (e.g. by direct perturbation) that higher ribosome concentration is the cause of the higher growth rate. Also, it is unclear why an active compensation mechanism is needed in the model, i.e., why size-dependent growth (via ribosome concentration) does not correct growth rate perturbations within a cell cycle automatically.

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the current reviews.

Public Reviews:

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

This article by Navratna et al. reports the first structure of human HGSNAT in an acetyl-CoA-bound state. Through careful structural analysis, the authors propose potential reasons why certain human mutations lead to lysosomal storage disorders and outline a catalytic mechanism. The structural data are of good quality, and the manuscript is clearly written. This study represents an important step toward understanding the mechanism of HGSNAT and is valuable to the field. I have the following suggestions:

(1) The authors should characterize whether the purified protein is active. Otherwise, how does one know if the detergent used maintains the protein in a biologically relevant state? The authors should at least attempt to do so. If these prove to be challenging, at the very least, the authors should try a cell-based assay to demonstrate that the GFP tag does not interfere with the function.

We have addressed these concerns in the revised version and mentioned these efforts in our previous response letter. We’re briefly mentioning them here again. We attempted measuring HGSNAT catalyzed reaction by monitoring the decrease in acetyl-CoA in the presence of D-glucosamine (acetyl group acceptor) using a coupled enzyme acetyl-CoA assay kit from SIGMA (MAK039) that converts acetyl-CoA to a fluorescent product measurable at Ex/Em of 535/587 nm. We noticed a decrease in the level of acetyl-CoA (gray) upon the addition of HGSNAT (red) (Rebuttal figure 1).

Author response image 1.

Acetyl-CoA levels in absence and presence of HGSNAT purified in digitonin. Decrease in the levels of 10 M acetyl-CoA was measured in presence of 10 M D-glucosamine and 30 nM HGSNAT at pH 7.5.

While optimizing the assay, Xu et al. (2024, Nat Struct Mol Biol) published structural and biochemical characterization of HGSNAT, showing that detergent-purified HGSNAT is active. In addition, we have shown by cryo-EM that GFP-tagged HGSNAT that we purified in detergent was already bound to the endogenous substrate ACO, an observation that has been observed by Xu et al., as well. Finally, we performed LC-MS on GFP-tagged HGSNAT purified in detergent to detect bound ACO, which could be further removed by dialysis. These results have been included in Figure S9. The endogenous binding of ACO to HGSNAT in detergent suggests that neither the tag nor detergent are detrimental to the function.

(2) In Figure 5, the authors present a detailed schematic of the catalytic cycle, which I find to be too speculative. There is no evidence to suggest that this enzyme undergoes isomerization, similar to a transporter, between open-to-lumen and open-to-cytosol states. Could it not simply involve some movements of side chains to complete the acetyl transfer?

We have already changed this figure in our latest submission. Perhaps the changes made were not obvious while reviewing. We agreed with this reviewer that the enzyme could likely achieve catalysis by simple side chain movements without undergoing extensive isomerization steps, as depicted in Figure 5. In the absence of data supporting large movements during the acetyl transfer reaction, old Figure 5 appeared speculative. Hence, we have edited Figure 5 in the revised version of the manuscript based on the observations we made in this study, and different states shown in the figure do not show any conformational changes and only depict acetyl transfer.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Summary:

This work describes the structure of Heparan-alpha-glucosaminide N-acetyltransferase (HGSNAT), a lysosomal membrane protein that catalyzes the acetylation reaction of the terminal alpha-D-glucosamine group required for degradation of heparan sulfate (HS). HS degradation takes place during the degradation of the extracellular matrix, a process required for restructuring tissue architecture, regulation of cellular function and differentiation. During this process, HS is degraded into monosaccharides and free sulfate in lysosomes.

HGSNAT catalyzes the transfer of the acetyl group from acetyl-CoA to the terminal non-reducing amino group of alpha-D-glucosamine. The molecular mechanism by which this process occur has not been described so far. One of the main reasons to study the mechanism of HGSNAT is that multiple mutations spanning the entire sequence of the protein, such as, nonsense mutations, splice-site variants, and missense mutations lead to dysfunction that causes abnormal accumulation of HS within the lysosomes. This accumulation is a cause of mucopolysaccharidosis IIIC (MPS IIIC), an autosomal recessive neurodegenerative lysosomal storage disorder, for which there are no approved drugs or treatment strategies.

This paper provides a 3.26A structure of HGSNAT, determined by single-particle cryo-EM. The structure reveals that HGSNAT is a dimer in detergent micelles, and a density assigned to acetyl-CoA. The authors speculate about the molecular mechanism of the acetylation reaction, map the mutations known to cause MPS IIIC on the structure and speculate about the nature of the HGSNAT disfunction caused by such mutations.

Strengths:

The paper describes a structure of HGSNAT a member of the transmembrane acyl transferase (TmAT) superfamily. The high-resolution of a HGSNAT bound to acetyl-CoA is important for our understanding of HGSNAT mechanism. The density map is of high-quality, except for the luminal domain. The location of the acetyl-CoA allows speculation about the mechanistic role of multiple residues surrounding this molecule. The authors thoroughly describe the architecture of HGSNAT and map the mutations leading to MPS IIIC.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

Summary:

Navratna et al. have solved the first structure of a transmembrane N-acetyltransferase (TNAT), resolving the architecture of human heparan-alpha-glucosaminide N-acetyltransferase (HGSNAT) in the acetyl-CoA bound state using single particle cryo-electron microscopy (cryoEM). They show that the protein is a dimer, and define the architecture of the alpha- and beta-GSNAT fragments, as well as convincingly characterizing the binding site of acetyl-CoA.

Strengths:

This is the first structure of any member of the transmembrane acyl transferase superfamily, and as such it provides important insights into the architecture and acetyl-CoA binding site of this class of enzymes.

The structural data is of a high quality, with an isotropic cryoEM density map at 3.3Å facilitating building of a high-confidence atomic model. Importantly, the density for the acetyl-CoA ligand is particularly well-defined, as are the contacting residues within the transmembrane domain.

The structure of HSGNAT presented here will undoubtedly lay the groundwork for future structural and functional characterization of the reaction cycle of this class of enzymes.

Weaknesses:

While the structural data for the state presented in this work is very convincing, and clearly defines the binding site of acetyl-CoA, to get a complete picture of the enzymatic mechanism of this family, additional structures of other states will be required.

A weakness of the study is the lack of functional validation. The enzymatic activity of the enzyme characterized was not measured, and the enzyme lacks native proteolytic processing, so it is a little unclear whether the structure represents an active enzyme.

Recommendations for the authors:

Reviewer #3 (Recommendations For The Authors):

In the response to reviewers, the authors mention revised coordinates, but the revised coordinates provided to this reviewer do not reflect the stated changes (I assume a technical error somewhere)

Perhaps, the old coordinates in the deposition system were resubmitted with the revised draft. Nevertheless, we have made the changes suggested by this reviewer to structure in the previous round and have released the new coordinates (PDB ID: 8TU9).

Is there any evidence for the interprotomer disulfide except for the map? e.g. if it is a disulfide-linked dimer, one should see a shift in mobility on non-reducing vs reducing SDS-PAGE. Without this, the evidence from the map is not conclusive - while the symmetry-related cysteines are nearby to one another, based on the map I could argue that they could just as well be modeled with the cys sidechains reduced and pointing away from one another.

In addition to building the density based on cryo-EM maps, we have performed FSEC-based thermal melt analysis of the Ala mutation of C334 that is involved in disulfide at the dimer interface. C334A is still expressed as a dimer, suggesting that C334A is not the only residue stabilizing the dimer. Upon heating the detergent-solubilized protein, we noticed that the FSEC peak for C334A shows a monomeric HGSNAT (Figure 4-Figure supplement 1 in main manuscript). We hypothesize that in the absence of C334 disulfide, the extensive hydrophobic side-chain interaction network displayed in Figure 2C is responsible for maintaining the integrity of the dimer. Heating disturbs these non-disulfide interactions, thereby rendering the protein monomer. We have also performed PAGE analysis as suggested by this reviewer and noticed that reducing conditions result in a monomeric protein band (Rebuttal figure 2). While we were revising this manuscript, two other groups published structures of HGSNAT (Xu et al., 2024, Nat. Struct Mol Biol, and Zhao et al., 2024, Nat. Comm). These groups have also identified this disulfide at the dimer interface in their HGSNAT structures. Zhao et al. showed that this disulfide is not crucial for dimerization and also suggested that it can break depending on the conformation of HGSNAT. Our FSEC results agree with this observation.

Author response image 2.

Comparison of purified HGSNAT on native and reducing SDS-PAGE. The arrows on both the gels indicate N-GFP-HGSNAT. The two bands on the SDS PAGE are, perhaps, two differentially glycosylated forms of HGSNAT.

---

The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

(1) The authors should characterize whether the purified protein is active. Otherwise, how does one know if the detergent used maintains the protein in a biologically relevant state? The authors should at least attempt to do so. If these prove to be challenging, at the very least, the authors should try a cell-based assay to demonstrate that the GFP tag does not interfere with the function. The authors would need to establish an in vitro assay using purified protein and assess the level of Acetyl-CoA in the reaction (there are commercial kits and a long list of literature showing how to measure this). They could also follow the HS acetylation reaction by e.g. HPLC-MS or NMR (among other methods).

The cryo-EM sample was prepared without the exogenous addition of ligand, as noted in the manuscript. However, we see that acetyl-CoA was intrinsically bound to the protein, indicating the ability of GFP-tagged HGSNAT protein to bind the ligand. Upon dialysis, we see release of acetyl-CoA from the protein, which we have confirmed by LC-MS analysis (Fig S9). We purified the protein at a pH optimal for acetyl-CoA binding, as suggested by Bame, K. J. and Rome, L. H. (1985) and Meikle, P. J. et al., (1995). Because we see acetyl-CoA in a structure obtained using a GFP fusion, we argue that GFP does not interfere with protein stability and ability to bind to the co-substrate. As demonstrated by existing literature HGSNAT catalyzed reaction is compartmentalized spatially and conditionally. The binding of acetyl-CoA happens towards the cytosol and is optimal at pH 7-0.8.0, while the transfer of the acetyl group to heparan sulfate occurs towards the luminal side and is optimal at pH 5.0-6.0. We attempted measuring HGSNAT catalyzed reaction by monitoring decrease in acetyl-CoA in presence of D-glucosamine (acetyl group acceptor) using a coupled enzyme acetyl-CoA assay kit from SIGMA (MAK039) that converts acetyl-CoA to a fluorescent product measurable at Ex/Em of 535/587 nm. We noticed a decrease in the level of acetyl-CoA in the presence of HGSNAT-ACO complex (blue) and apo HGSNAT (red); the difference compared to the ACO standard (gray) was not significant. While optimizing the assay, Xu et al. (2024, Nat Struct Mol Biol) published structural and biochemical characterization of HGSNAT, showing that detergent-purified HGSNAT is active.

Author response image 3.

Acetyl-CoA levels in absence and presence of HGSNAT purified in digitonin. Decrease in the levels of 10 mM acetyl-CoA was measured in presence of 10 mM D-glucosamine and 30 nM HGSNAT at pH 7.5.

(2) In Figure 5, the authors present a detailed schematic of the catalytic cycle, which I find to be too speculative. There is no evidence to suggest that this enzyme undergoes isomerization, similar to a transporter, between open-to-lumen and open-to-cytosol states. Could it not simply involve some movements of side chains to complete the acetyl transfer? The speculative nature of this assumption needs to be clearly acknowledged throughout the manuscript and discussed in more detail. The authors could use HDX-MS or introduce cysteine residues in the hypothetical inward- and outward-facing cavities and test accessibility by incubating the purified protein with maleimides or other agents reacting with free cysteine.

We thank the reviewers for this insightful critique. Yes, the enzyme could likely achieve catalysis by simple side chain movements without undergoing extensive isomerization steps, as depicted in Figure 5. We also agree with the reviewer that HDX-MS could be the best way to monitor the substrate-induced conformational dynamics within HGSNAT experimentally. In the absence of data supporting large movements during the acetyl transfer reaction, figure 5 is speculative. We have now edited Figure 5 in the revised version of the manuscript based on the observations we made in this study.

(3) The acetyl-CoA-bound state is described as the open-to-lumen state. Indeed, from Figure 1C, the lumen opening appears much larger than the cytosol opening. Is there any small tunnel that connects the substrate site to the cytosol? In other words, is this state accessible to both the lumen and the cytosol, albeit with a larger opening toward the lumen? This question arises because, in Figure S5, the tunnel calculated by MOLE seems to also connect to the cytosol.

Yes, it is likely that the ACOS is accessible via lumen and cytosol to varying degrees, as evidenced by MOLE prediction. However, binding of the bulky nucleoside head group of acetyl-CoA at ACOS blocks the cytosolic entrance in the confirmation discussed in this manuscript. MOLE prediction was performed on a structure devoid of acetyl-CoA, and it is possible that the protein doesn’t essentially undergo isomerization between open-to-lumen and open-to-cytosol confirmations during acetyl transfer. Likely, ACOS is always accessible from both the lumen and cytosol, but depending on the substrates or products bound, the accessibility could be limited to either the lysosomal lumen or cytosol. We have rewritten all the statements mentioning an open-to-lumen confirmation to reflect this argument.

(4) The authors state, "Interestingly, in most of the detergent conditions we tested, HGSNAT was predominantly dimeric (Fig S1C-H)," and also mention, "In all the detergents we tested, HGSNAT eluted as a dimer, a testament to the extensive side-chain interaction network." The dimerization is said to be mediated by a disulfide bond. I would be surprised if the detergents the authors tested could break a disulfide bond. Therefore, can this observation truly serve as a testament to an "extensive" side-chain interaction network?

We agree with the reviewer that detergents are unlikely to break a disulfide bond. To address this comment, we generated a C334A mutant of HGSNAT and extracted it from cells in 1% digitonin. It is still expressed as a dimer (Fig S8E). However, upon heating the detergent solubilized protein, we noticed that the FSEC peak for C334A shows a monomeric HGSNAT (Fig S8I and S8K). We hypothesize that in the absence of C334 disulfide, the extensive hydrophobic side-chain interaction network displayed in Figure 2C is responsible for maintaining the integrity of the dimer. Heating disturbs these non-disulfide interactions, thereby rendering the protein monomer.

(5) Apart from the cryo-EM structure, the article does not provide any other experimental evidence to support or explain a molecular mechanism. Due to the complete absence of functional assays, mutagenesis analysis, or other structures such as a ternary complex or an acetylated enzyme intermediate, the mechanistic model depicted in Figure 5 should be taken with caution. This uncertainty needs to be clearly described in the manuscript text. Performing additional mutagenesis experiments to test key hypotheses, or further discussing relevant data from the literature, would strengthen the manuscript.

We agree with the reviewer on the lack of supporting evidence for the mechanistic models proposed in Fig 5. They were made based on previously reported biochemical characterization of HGSNAT by Rome & Crain (1981), Rome et al. (1983), Miekle et al. (1995), and Fan et al. (2011). However, we agree with the reviewer that this schematic is not experimentally proven and is speculative at best. We have edited Figure 5 in the revised version of the manuscript. In addition, we have also performed mutagenesis analysis to study the stability of mutants (Fig S8) and performed LC-MS analysis to identify endogenously bound acetyl-CoA (Fig S9) to strengthen parts of the manuscript. We have discussed our findings in the results and modified the discussion according to these suggestions.

(6) It is discussed that H269 is an essential residue that participates in the acetylation reaction, possibly becoming acetylated during the process. However, there is no solid experimental evidence, e.g. mutagenesis analysis or structural analysis, in this or previous articles, that demonstrates this to be the case. Providing more information, ideally involving additional experimental work, would strengthen this aspect of the mechanism that is proposed. This would require establishing an in vitro assay, as described in 1).

H269, as a crucial catalytic residue, was suggested by monitoring the effect of chemical modifications of amino acids on acetylation of HGSNAT membranes by Bame, K. J. and Rome, L. H. (1986). We generated N258I and H269A mutants of HGSNAT and analyzed their stability. We noticed a greater destabilization in N258I compared to H269A (Fig S8). We believe this is because of the loss of ability to bind acetyl-CoA, as the TMs around a catalytic core of the protein in our cryo-EM structure were stabilized by interactions with acetyl-CoA. Recently, Xu et al. (2024, Nat Struct Mol Biol) suggested that they do not observe acetylated histidine in their structure. However, our structure and that reported by Xu et al. (2024) are obtained at cytosolic pH. Perhaps, acetylation of H269 occurs at acidic lysosomal pH. Extensive structural and catalytic investigation of HGSNAT at low pH is required to rule out H269 acetylation as a step in the HGSNAT catalyzed reaction.

(7) In the discussion part, the authors mention previous studies in which it was postulated that the catalytic reaction can be described by a random order mechanistic model or a Ping Pong Bi Bi model. However, the authors leave open the question of which of these mechanisms best describes the acetylation reaction. The structure presented here does not provide evidence that could support one mechanism or the other. The authors could explore if an in vitro experimental measurement of protein activity would provide any information in this regard.

We agree with the reviewer that a more detailed kinetic analysis is necessary to define the bisubstrate reaction mechanism of HGSNAT. All the existing structural data on two isoforms of HGSNAT is obtained at basic pH. As a result, the existing structures do not unambiguously demonstrate the bisusbtrate mechanism of HGSNAT. We believe low pH structural characterization and a detailed kinetic and structural characterization of HGSNAT in membrane mimetics like nanodiscs could provide more insights into the mechanism. However, these studies are a future undertaking and are not a part of this manuscript.

(8) Although the authors map the mutations leading to MPS IIIC on the structure and use FoldX software to predict the impact of these mutations on folding and fold stability, there is no experimental evidence to support FoldX's predictions. It would be ideal if an additional test for these predictions were included in the manuscript. The authors could follow the unfolding of purified mutants by SEC, FSEC, or changes in intrinsic fluorescence to assess protein stability.

As suggested here, we prepared HGSNAT MPSIIIC variants and tested their expression and stability (please see Fig S8). These results have been included in the revised version of the manuscript.

(9) Some sidechains that have quite strong sidechain density are missing atoms. I would be particularly careful with omitting sidechains that pack in the hydrophobic core, as this can tend to artificially reduce the clash score. Check F81, L62, P91 and V87, for example.

We have revisited the modeling of these regions and deposited new coordinates.

(10) W316 seems to have the wrong rotamer.

This has been corrected in the new coordinate file that has been released.

(11) N134 and N433 seem to have extra density. Are these known glycosylation sites?

As per Hrebicek M. et al., 2006 and Feldhammer M. et al., 2009, there are five predicted glycosylation sites: N66, N114, N134, N433, and N602. However, we see evidence for NAG density at N114, N134, and N433. These have now been modeled in the structure.

(12) At the C-terminal residue (Ile-635), the very C-terminal carboxylate is modeled pointing to a hydrophobic environment. It seems more likely to me that the Ile sidechain is packing here, with the C-terminal carboxylate facing the solvent.

Thank you for pointing this out. We have edited the orientation of the Ile sidechain accordingly.

Presentation and wording of results/methods:

- Figure S3 legend "At places with missing density, the side chains were trimmed to C- alpha" - this is incorrect, I think the authors mean C-beta.

We have corrected this error in the revised version of the manuscript.

- Figure S3 legend - the authors refer to a gray mesh, where a transparent surface is displayed.

Thanks for pointing this error out. We have corrected this in the revised version.

- Some colloquial/vague wording in the main text (a lot of sentences starting with "Interestingly, ...". Making the wording more specific would help the reader I think.

We have edited out ‘interestingly’ from the document and have re-written parts of the manuscript, per reviewers’ suggestion, for brevity.

- Figure S2 legend, "throughout the processing workflow the resolution of luminal domain was used as a guidepost" - it is not entirely clear to me what this means in this context, perhaps revise the wording?

We have rephrased this line in the revised draft of the manuscript.

- Figure S2 and methods, Local refinements of LD and TMD are mentioned, but not indicated on the processing workflow.

We have included a new Fig S2 & edited the legend, including these changes, per the reviewers’ suggestions.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

This article by Navratna et al. reports the first structure of human HGSNAT in an acetyl-CoA-bound state. Through careful structural analysis, the authors propose potential reasons why certain human mutations lead to lysosomal storage disorders and outline a catalytic mechanism. The structural data are of good quality, and the manuscript is clearly written. This study represents an important step toward understanding the mechanism of HGSNAT and is valuable to the field. I have the following suggestions:

(1) The authors should characterize whether the purified protein is active. Otherwise, how does one know if the detergent used maintains the protein in a biologically relevant state? The authors should at least attempt to do so. If these prove to be challenging, at the very least, the authors should try a cell-based assay to demonstrate that the GFP tag does not interfere with the function.

(2) In Figure 5, the authors present a detailed schematic of the catalytic cycle, which I find to be too speculative. There is no evidence to suggest that this enzyme undergoes isomerization, similar to a transporter, between open-to-lumen and open-to-cytosol states. Could it not simply involve some movements of side chains to complete the acetyl transfer?

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Summary:

This work describes the structure of Heparan-alpha-glucosaminide N-acetyltransferase (HGSNAT), a lysosomal membrane protein that catalyzes the acetylation reaction of the terminal alpha-D-glucosamine group required for degradation of heparan sulfate (HS). HS degradation takes place during the degradation of the extracellular matrix, a process required for restructuring tissue architecture, regulation of cellular function and differentiation. During this process, HS is degraded into monosaccharides and free sulfate in lysosomes.

HGSNAT catalyzes the transfer of the acetyl group from acetyl-CoA to the terminal non-reducing amino group of alpha-D-glucosamine. The molecular mechanism by which this process occur has not been described so far. One of the main reasons to study the mechanism of HGSNAT is that multiple mutations spanning the entire sequence of the protein, such as, nonsense mutations, splice-site variants, and missense mutations lead to dysfunction that causes abnormal accumulation of HS within the lysosomes. This accumulation is a cause of mucopolysaccharidosis IIIC (MPS IIIC), an autosomal recessive neurodegenerative lysosomal storage disorder, for which there are no approved drugs or treatment strategies.<br /> This paper provides a 3.26A structure of HGSNAT, determined by single-particle cryo-EM. The structure reveals that HGSNAT is a dimer in detergent micelles, and a density assigned to acetyl-CoA. The authors speculate about the molecular mechanism of the acetylation reaction, map the mutations known to cause MPS IIIC on the structure and speculate about the nature of the HGSNAT disfunction caused by such mutations.

Strengths:

The paper describes a structure of HGSNAT a member of the transmembrane acyl transferase (TmAT) superfamily. The high-resolution of a HGSNAT bound to acetyl-CoA is important for our understanding of HGSNAT mechanism. The density map is of high-quality, except for the luminal domain. The location of the acetyl-CoA allows speculation about the mechanistic role of multiple residues surrounding this molecule. The authors thoroughly describe the architecture of HGSNAT and map the mutations leading to MPS IIIC.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

Summary:

Navratna et al. have solved the first structure of a transmembrane N-acetyltransferase (TNAT), resolving the architecture of human heparan-alpha-glucosaminide N-acetyltransferase (HGSNAT) in the acetyl-CoA bound state using single particle cryo-electron microscopy (cryoEM). They show that the protein is a dimer, and define the architecture of the alpha- and beta-GSNAT fragments, as well as convincingly characterizing the binding site of acetyl-CoA.

Strengths:

This is the first structure of any member of the transmembrane acyl transferase superfamily, and as such it provides important insights into the architecture and acetyl-CoA binding site of this class of enzymes.

The structural data is of a high quality, with an isotropic cryoEM density map at 3.3Å facilitating building of a high-confidence atomic model. Importantly, the density for the acetyl-CoA ligand is particularly well-defined, as are the contacting residues within the transmembrane domain.

The structure of HSGNAT presented here will undoubtedly lay the groundwork for future structural and functional characterization of the reaction cycle of this class of enzymes.

Weaknesses:

While the structural data for the state presented in this work is very convincing, and clearly defines the binding site of acetyl-CoA, to get a complete picture of the enzymatic mechanism of this family, additional structures of other states will be required.

A weakness of the study is the lack of functional validation. The enzymatic activity of the enzyme characterized was not measured, and the enzyme lacks native proteolytic processing, so it is a little unclear whether the structure represents an active enzyme.

eLife assessment

Giamundo et al. present valuable data with new insights new insight into the role of Ezrin, a major membrane-actin linker that assembles signaling complexes, in the spatial regulation of EGF signaling mediators. The use of multiple state-of-the-art microscopy techniques, multiple cell lines and inhibitors, and in vivo models provides solid support for the majority of their conclusions. The findings are helpful for our understanding of EGF/mTOR signal transduction and support a critical role for the scaffolding protein Ezrin, in the upstream regulation of EGFR/AKT activity, TSC subcellular localization and mTORC1 signaling, thus contributing to our understanding of the regulation of endo-lysosomal signaling, alterations in which are implicated in many human diseases.

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

Response to reviewers (minor points):

We thank all reviewers for their very helpful suggestions and greatly appreciate their positive evaluation of our work.

Reviewer #1:

Ad 1) The reviewer states: Fig 5 While the data very nicely show that CPX and Syt1 have interdependent interactions in the chromaffin neurons, this seems to be not the case in neurons, where the loss of complexins and synaptotagmins have additive effects, suggesting independent mechanisms (eg Xue et al., 2010). This would be a good opportunity to discuss some possible differences between secretion in endocrine cells vs neurons.

We greatly appreciate the insightful suggestion by the reviewer. To accommodate the reviewer’s suggestion, we now discuss this issue on page 21, line 486-491: “In murine hippocampal neurons, loss of CpxI and Syt1 has additive effects on fast synchronous release, suggesting independent mechanisms (Xue et al., 2010). On the other hand, the same study also showed that Syt1 heterozygosity fails to reduce release probability in wild-type neurons, but does so in the absence of Cpx, again suggesting that Cpx and Syt1 may functionally interact in Ca2+-triggered release.”

Ad 2) The reviewer states: Fig 8 Shows an apparent shift in Ca sensitivity in N-terminal mutants suggesting a modification of Ca sensitivity of Syt1. Could there be also an alternative mechanism, that explains this phenotype which is based on a role of the n-term lowering the energy barrier for fusion, that in turn shifts corresponding fusion rates to take place at lower Ca saturation levels?

We fully agree with the reviewer. While our data indicate that Cpx and Syt1 act in a dependent manner in accelerating exocytosis, they do not provide decisive evidence that the NTD of CpxII directly modulates the Ca2+ affinity of Syt1, an issue that we discuss on page 23 , line 523529: ”The results favor a model wherein the CpxII NTD either directly regulates the biophysical properties of the Ca2+-sensor by increasing the apparent forward rate of Ca2+-binding or indirectly affects SytI-SNARE or SytI-membrane interactions, thereby, lowering the energy barrier of Ca2+triggered fusion.”

Reviewer #2:

Ad 1) The reviewer states: The authors provide a "chromaffin cell-centric" view of the function of mammalian Cplx in vesicle fusion. With the exception of mammalian renal ribbon synapses (and some earlier RNAi knockdown studies that had off-target effects), there is very little evidence for a "fusion-clamp"-like function of Cplxs in mammalian synapses. At conventional mammalian synapses, genetic loss of Cplx (i.e. KO) consistently decreases AP-evoked release, and generally either also decreases spontaneous release rates or does not affect spontaneous release, which is inconsistent with a "fusion-clamp" theory. This is in stark contrast to invertebrate (D. m. and C. e.) synapses where genetic Cplx loss is generally associated with strong upregulation of spontaneous release, providing support for Cplx acting as a "fusion-clamp".

We agree with the reviewer that it is difficult to reconcile contradictory findings regarding the role of Cpx in membrane fusion in vertebrates and invertebrates or between murine hippocampal neurons and neuroendocrine cells. On the other hand, we respectfully disagree with the statement of providing a "chromaffin cell-centric" view of the function of mammalian Cplx in vesicle fusion. In fact, a large number of model systems (in vitro and in vivo studies) support a scenario where complexin takes center stage in clamping of premature vesicle release. For example, in vitro analyses using a liposome fusion assay (Schaub et al., 2006, Nat Struct Mol Biol 13, 748; Schupp et al., 2016) or Hela cells that ectopically express “flipped” SNAREs on their cell surface (Giraudo et al., 2008, JBC 283, 21211) showed that complexin can inhibit the SNARE-driven fusion machinery. Likewise, several studies boosting complexin action by either genetic overexpression or peptide supplementation have provided evidence for the complexin clamp function in neuronal and nonneuronal cells (e.g. Itakura et al., 1999, BBRC 265, 691; Liu et al., 2007, Biochemistry 72, 439; Abderrahmani et al., 2004, J Cell Sci 117, 2239; Archer et al., 2002, JBC 277, 18249; Tang et al, 2006,

Cell 126, 1175; Vaithianathan et al., 2013, J Neurosci 33, 8216; Roggero et al., 2007, JBC, 282, 26335.)

In addition, chromaffin cells enable the investigation of secretion on the background of a well-defined intracellular calcium concentration. Indeed, CplxII knock-out in chromaffin cells demonstrated an enhanced tonic release which is evident at elevated levels of [Ca]i (>100nM), but absent at low resting [Ca]i (Dhara et al., 2014). Given this observation, it is tempting to speculate that variations in [Ca]i among the different preparations may contribute to the deviating expression of the complexin null phenotype in different preparations.

Ad 2) The reviewer states: The authors use a Semliki Forest virus-based approach to express mutant proteins in chromaffin cells. This strategy leads to a strong protein overexpression (~7-8 fold, Figure 3 Suppl. 1). Therefore, experimental findings under these conditions may not necessarily be identical to findings with normal protein expression levels.

As shown in Fig. 4, we use the secretion response of wt cells as a control so that we can assess the specificity and quality of the rescue approach in our experiments. In addition, the comparative analysis of the CpxII mutants was performed with respect to the equally overexpressed CpxII wt protein (Fig. 3 Suppl. 1), which we used as a control to determine the standard response under these conditions.

Ad 3) The reviewer states: Measurements of delta Cm in response to Ca2+ uncaging by ramping [Ca2+ ] from resting levels up to several µM over a me period of several seconds were used to establish changes in the release rate vs [Ca2+ ]i relationship. It is not clear to this reviewer if and how concurrently occurring vesicle endocytosis together with a possibly Ca2+-dependent kinetics of endocytosis may affect these measurements.

By infusing bovine chromaffin cells with 50µM free Ca2+, Smith and Betz have shown that the total capacitance increase is dominated by exocytosis and that significant endocytosis only sets in after 3 minutes (Smith and Betz, 1996, Nature, 380, 531). In the same line, we previously showed that mouse chromaffin cells (infused with 19µM free calcium over 2 minutes) responded with robust increase in membrane capacitance which strongly correlated with the number of simultaneously recorded amperometric events monitoring fusion of single vesicles (Dhara et al., 2014, Fig. 5B). Thus, capacitance alterations recorded under tonic intracellular Ca2+ increase in chromaffin cells are solely due to exocytosis and are not contaminated by significant endocytosis. As our Ca2+ ramp experiments were carried out for 6 seconds and the intracellular free [Ca]i did not exceed 19 µM the observed phenotypical differences between the experimental groups are most likely due to changes in exocytosis rather than endocytosis.

Ad 4) The reviewer states: It should be pointed out that an altered "apparent Ca2+ affinity" or "apparent Ca2+ binding rate" does not necessarily reflect changes at Ca2+-binding sites (e.g. Syt1).

We fully agree with the reviewer’s comment. As pointed out also in the response to reviewer 1, our experiments do not provide decisive evidence that the NTD of CpxII directly modulates the Ca2+ affinity of Syt1, an issue that we discuss on page 23 , line 523-529: ” The results favor a model wherein the CpxII NTD either directly regulates the biophysical properties of the Ca2+sensor by increasing the apparent forward rate of Ca2+-binding or indirectly affects SytI-SNARE or SytI-membrane interactions, thereby, lowering the energy barrier of Ca2+-triggered fusion.” 

AD 5) There are alternative models on how Cplx may "clamp" vesicle fusion (see Bera et al. 2022, eLife) or how Cplx may achieve its regulation of transmitter release without mechanistically "clamping" fusion (Neher 2010, Neuron). Since the data presented here cannot rule out such alternative models (in this reviewer's opinion), the authors may want to mention and briefly discuss such alternative models.

The study by Bara et al reiterates the model proposed by the Rothman group which attributes the clamping function of Cpx to its accessory alpha helix by hindering the progressive SNARE complex assembly. We have explicitly stated this issue in the original version of the manuscript (page 19, line 425) “As the accessory helix of Cpx has been found to bind to membrane proximal cytoplasmic regions of SNAP-25 and SybII (Malsam et al., 2012; Bykhovskaia et al., 2013; Vasin et al., 2016), an attractive scenario could be that both domains of CpxII, the CTD and the accessory helix, synergistically cooperate to stall final SNARE assembly”. In this context, we will now cite also the study by Bera et al.. 

A related view of the function of complexin suggested that it may act as an allosteric adaptor for sytI (Neher 2010, Neuron). Here, rather than postulang independent "clamp" and "trigger" functions for the dual action of complexin, these were explained as facets of a simple allosteric mechanism by which complexin modulates the Ca2+ dependence of release. Yet, this interpretation appears to be difficult to reconcile with the observation of our and other laboratories, showing that the fusion-promoting and clamping effects are separable (e.g. Dhara et al., 2014; Lai et al., 2014; Makke et al., 2018; Bera et al., 2022).  

Some parts of the Discussion are quite general and not specifically related to the results of the present study. The authors may want to consider shortening those parts.

Considering the contrary findings in the field of SNARE-regulating proteins, the authors hope that the reviewer will agree that it is necessary to discuss the new observations in a broader context, as also acknowledged by the first reviewer.

Last but not least, the presentation of the results could be improved to make the data more accessible to non-specialists, this concerns providing necessary background information, choice of colors, and labeling of diagrams.

Done

Recommendations for the authors:

Reviewer #2 (Recommendations For The Authors): 

Regarding figures: 

(1) Please use clearly distinct colors in diagrams. For example, in Figure 2 Suppl. 3, four different shades of red (or reddish) are used to color the traces and the respective bars. These different shades of red are difficult to discriminate. In Figure 5 Suppl. 1, the two greens are nearly indistinguishable.  

Done

(2) RRP size and SRP size on the one hand, and SR rate on the other represent different quantities which are measured in different units. Please use a separate y-axis for the SR (a rate measured in fF/s) and do not combine with RRP and SRP (pool sizes measured in fF). This would also automatically alleviate the need for axis breaks in the plots of RRP size and SRP size. In general, please do not use axis breaks which make interpretation of data unnecessarily more complicated.  

In order to clarify the display, we now define the different units together with the quantified parameter (e.g. RRP [fF], SRP [fF], SR [fF/s]) allowing us to omit a second axis in those subpanels.

(3) When plotting bar graphs showing mean tau_RRP, mean tau_SRP, and mean delay, please always use the correct y-axis labels, i.e. use "tau_RRP", "tau_SRP" and "delay" as y-axis labels as it was done for example in Figure 4D, and do not use "tau_RRP", "tau_SRP" and "delay" as x-axis labels as it was done for example in Figure 1D and many other figure panels.  

We have standardized the figure display. Yet, we would prefer to keep our way subpanel labelling which states the parameter underneath the bar graph and thereby makes the results more accessible.  

(4) Are the asterisks indicating statistical significance perhaps missing in Figure 4D, middle panel (tau_SRP)?

There was not a statistically significant difference (wt vs cpxIIko+CpxII EA, P=0.0826, Kruskal-Wallis with Dunn’ post hoc test).  

(5) According to the Results section (pages 12 to 13), I assume that in Figures 6 and 7 the labels "+Cplx XYZ" are used by the authors to identify an overexpression of Cplx XYZ in a Cplx WT background. The legend text reads however " ... cells expressing either Cplx2 wt or the mutant ...", which would not be correct. Please check.

We have changed the formulations to “overexpression” accordingly.

(6) The x-axis unit in Figure 8C is likely "µM" and not "M".

Done.

(7) The abbreviations "CplxII LL-EE" and "CplxII LL-WW", and "CplxII LLEE" and "CplxII LLWW" are very similar but refer to different mutants. Could you please think of a more specific and unambiguous abbreviation? Perhaps "CplxII L124E-L128E"?  

We have changed the abbreviations, accordingly (i.e. CpxII L124E-L128E).  

Regarding the manuscript text:  

Line 65: "prevents" instead of "impairs"? 

done

Line 67: why "in vivo"? 

We changed the formulation to ‘Several’

Line 83: "in addition to the clamping function ..." This is misleading. Many of the studies listed here did not provide evidence for enhanced spontaneous release following Cplx loss and often observed the opposite, reduced spontaneous release. The enhanced delayed release was observed by Strenzke et al 2009 J.Neurosci. and by Chang et al. 2015 J.Neurosci. (which the authors may want to cite). However, that enhanced delayed release occurred despite reduced spontaneous release indicating that it is not simply the result of a missing "fusion clamp". 

To accommodate the reviewer’s suggestion, we have changed the formulation to “Independent of the clamping function of Cpx….”

Line 104: "speeds up exocytosis that is controlled by the forward rate of Ca2+ binding" This is difficult to understand without context.  

We have now added the corresponding citations (Voets et al., 2001; Sorensen et al., 2003), which showed that exocytosis timing in chromaffin cells is largely determined by the kinetics of Ca2+-binding to SytI.

Line 116: "Cplx2 knock out ..." Please provide (here or earlier in the manuscript) information to the reader about which Cplx paralogs are expressed in chromaffin cells.  

We now state on line 111 that “CpxII is the only Cpx isoform expressed in chromaffin cells (Cai et al., 2008)”

Line 118: "=~" either "=" or "~". 

done

Line 120: "instead" seems superfluous.

done

Line 272: "calcium binding rates" should perhaps better read "apparent calcium binding rates". 

done

Line 290: "enhancing SytI's Ca2+ affinity" should perhaps better be "enhancing the apparent Ca2+ affinity of the release machinery". Ca2+ binding kinetics is never directly assayed here.

We agree and have phrased the sentence accordingly.

Line 300: "Expression of Cplx ... in Syt1 R233Q ki cells, ..." Perhaps better "Overexpression of Cplx ... in Syt1 R233Q ki/Cplx2 wt cells, ..." for clarification?

done

Lines 313ff: What is assayed here is the apparent Ca2+ binding kinetics and apparent KD values of the release machinery. Ca2+ binding to Syt1 is never directly measured!  

We agree and have changed the wording accordingly to “CpxII NTD supports the forward rate of calcium binding to SytI in accelerating exocytosis”

Line 347: "Complexin plays a dual role ..." This is partially misleading. It does so in chromaffin cells and D.m. and C.e. NMJs but not at conventional mammalian synapses. 

We agree and have changed the formulation to “In many secretory systems, Complexin plays a dual role in the regulation of SNARE-mediated vesicle fusion”

eLife assessment

This important work shows compelling data that significantly advances our understanding of the regulation of neurotransmitter and hormone secretion by exploring the mechanisms of how the protein complexin 2 (Cplx2) interacts with the calcium sensor synaptotagmin. The function of mammalian Cplx2 is studied using chromaffin cells derived from Cplx2 knock out mice as a system to overexpress and functionally characterize mutant Cplx2 forms and the interaction between Cplx2 and synaptotagmin. The authors identify structural requirements within the protein for Cplx's dual role in preventing premature vesicle exocytosis and enhancing evoked exocytosis. The findings are of broad interest to neuroscientists and cell biologists.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

Summary:

Using chromaffin cells as a powerful model system for studying secretion, the authors study the regulatory role of complexin in secretion. Complexin is still enigmatic in its regulatory role, as it both provides inhibitory and facilitatory functions in release. The authors perform an extensive structure-function analysis of both the C- and N-terminal regions of complexin. There are several interesting findings that significantly advances our understanding of cpx/SNARe interactions in regulating release. C-terminal amphipathic helix interferes with SNARE complex assembly and thus clamps fusion. There are acidic residues in the C-term that may be seen as putative interaction partners for Synaptotagmin. The N-terminus of Complexin promoting role may be associated with an interaction with Syt1. In particular the putative interaction with Syt1 is of high interest and supported by quite strong functional and biochemical evidence. The experimental approaches are state of the art, and the results are of the highest quality and convincing throughout. They are adequate and intelligently discussed in the rich context of the standing literature. Whilst there are some concerns about whether the facilitatory actions of complexion have to be tightly linked to Syt1 interactions, the proposed model will significantly advance the field by providing new directions in future research.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Summary:

Complexin (Cplx) is expressed at nearly all chemical synapses. Mammalian Cplx comes in four different paralogs which are differentially expressed in different neurons or secretory cell types, either selectively or in combination with one or two other Cplx isoforms. Cplx binds with high affinity to assembled SNARE complexes and promotes evoked synchronous release. Cplx is assumed to preclude premature SV fusion by preventing full SNARE assembly, thereby arresting subsequent SNARE-driven fusion ("fusion-clamp" theory). The protein has multiple domains, the functions of which are controversially discussed. Cplx's function has been studied in a variety of model organisms including mouse, fly, worm, and fish with seemingly conflicting results which led to partly contradicting conclusions.<br /> Makee et al. study the function of mammalian Cplx2 in chromaffin cells by making use of Cplx2 ko mice to overexpress and functionally characterize mutant Cplx2 forms in cultured chromaffin cells. The main conclusion of the present study are:

The hydrophobic character of the amphipathic helix in Cplx's C-terminal domain is essential for inhibiting premature vesicle fusion at a [Ca2+]i of several hundreds of nM (pre-flash [Ca2+]i). The Cplx-mediated inhibition of fusion under these conditions does not rely on expression of either Syt1 or Syt7.

Slow-down of exocytosis by N-terminally truncated Cplx mutants in response to a [Ca2+]i of several µM (peak flash [Ca2+]i) occurs regardless of the presence or absence of Syt7 demonstrating that Cplx2 does not act as a switch favoring preferential assembly of the release machinery with Syt1,2 rather than the "slow" sensor Syt7.

Cplx's N-terminal domain is required for the Cplx2-mediated increase in the speed of exocytosis and faster onset of exocytosis which likely reflect an increased apparent Ca2+ sensitivity and faster Ca2+ binding of the release machinery.

Strengths:

The authors perform systematic truncation/mutational analyses of Cplx2. They analyze the impact of single and combined deficiencies for Cplx2 and Syt1 to establish interactions of both proteins.<br /> State-of-the-art methods are employed: Vesicle exocytosis is assayed directly and with high resolution using capacitance measurements. Intracellular [Ca2+] is controlled by loading via the patch-pipette and by UV-light induced flash-photolysis of caged [Ca2+]. The achieved [Ca2+ ] is measured with Ca2+ -sensitive dyes.<br /> The data is of high quality and the results are compelling.

Weaknesses:

With the exception of mammalian retinal ribbon synapses (and some earlier RNAi knock down studies which had off-target effects), there is little experimental evidence for a "fusion-clamp"-like function of Cplxs at mammalian synapses. At conventional mammalian synapses, genetic loss of Cplx (i.e. KO) consistently decreases AP-evoked release, and generally either also decreases spontaneous release rates or does not affect spontaneous release, which is inconsistent with a "fusion-clamp" theory. This is in stark contrast to invertebrate (D. m. and C. e.) synapses where genetic Cplx loss is generally associated with a strong upregulation of spontaneous release.

There are alternative scenarios explaining how Cplx may phenomenological "clamp" vesicle fusion rates without mechanistically assigning a "clamping" function to Cplx (Neher 2010, Neuron). In fact, changes in asynchronous release kinetics following conditioning AP trains observed at Cplx1 ko calyx of Held synapses do not favor a "fusion clamp" model (Chang et al., 2015, J.Neurosci.), while an alternative model, assigning Cplx the role of a "checkpoint" protein in SNARE assembly, quantitatively reproduces all experimental observations (Lopez et al., 2024, PNAS). It might be helpful for a reader to mention such alternative scenarios.

Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

Summary:

This paper utilizes a neural network model to investigate how the brain employs an adaptive chunking strategy to effectively enhance working memory capacity, which is a classical and significant question in cognitive neuroscience. By integrating perspectives from both the 'slot model' and 'limited resource models,' the authors adopted a neural network model encompassing the prefrontal cortex and basal ganglia, introduced an adaptive chunking strategy, and proposed a novel hybrid model. The study demonstrates that the brain can adaptively bind various visual stimuli into a single chunk based on the similarity of color features (a continuous variable) among items in visual working memory, thereby improving working memory efficiency. Additionally, it suggests that the limited capacity of working memory arises from the computational characteristics of the neural system, rather than anatomical constraints.

Strengths:

The neural network model utilized in this paper effectively integrates perspectives from both slot models and resource models (i.e., resource-like constraints within a slot-like system). This methodological innovation provides a better explanation for the limited capacity of working memory. By simulating the neural networks of the prefrontal cortex and basal ganglia, the model demonstrates how to optimize working memory storage and retrieval strategies through reinforcement learning (i.e., the efficient management of access to and from working memory). This biologically plausible simulation offers a novel perspective on human working memory and potentially provides a novel explanation for the working memory difficulties observed in patients with Parkinson's disease and other disorders. Furthermore, the effectiveness of the model is validated through computational simulation experiments, yielding reliable and robust predictions.

Weaknesses:

The model employs a spiking neural network, which is relatively complex. Additionally, while this paper validates the effectiveness of chunking strategies used by the brain to enhance working memory efficiency through computational simulations, further comparison with related phenomena observed in cognitive neuroscience experiments on limited working memory capacity, such as the recency effect, is necessary to verify its generalizability.

eLife assessment

This important work proposes a neural network model of interactions between the prefrontal cortex and basal ganglia to implement adaptive resource allocation in working memory, where the gating strategies for storage are adjusted by reinforcement learning. Numerical simulations provide convincing evidence for the superiority of the model in improving effective capacity, optimizing resource management, and reducing error rates, as well as solid evidence for its human-like performance. The paper could be strengthened further by a more thorough comparison of model predictions with human behavior and by improved clarity in presentation. This work will be of broad interest to computational and cognitive neuroscientists, and may also interest machine-learning researchers who seek to develop brain-inspired machine-learning algorithms for memory.

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

Summary:

In this research, Soni and Frank investigate the network mechanisms underlying capacity limitations in working memory from a new perspective, with a focus on visual working memory (VWM). The authors have advanced beyond the classical neural network model, which incorporates the prefrontal cortex and basal ganglia (PBWM), by introducing an adaptive chunking variant. This model is trained using a biologically plausible, dopaminergic reinforcement learning framework. The adaptive chunking mechanism is particularly well-suited to the VWM tasks involving continuous stimuli and elegantly integrates the 'slot' and 'resource' theories of working memory constraints. The chunk-augmented PBWM operates as a slot-like system with resource-like limitations.

Through numerical simulations under various conditions, Soni and Frank demonstrate the performance of the chunk-augmented PBWM model surpasses the no-chunk control model. The improvements are evident in enhanced effective capacity, optimized resource management, and reduced error rates. The retention of these benefits, even with increased capacity allocation, suggests that working memory limitations are due to a combination of factors, including the efficient credit assignments that are learned flexibly through reinforcement learning. In essence, this work addresses fundamental questions related to a computational working memory limitation using a biologically-inspired neural network, and thus has implications for clinical conditions in which working memory is affected, such as Parkinson's disease, ADHD, and schizophrenia.

Strengths:

The integration of mechanistic flexibility, reconciling two theories for WM capacity into a single unified model, results in a neural network that is both more adaptive and human-like. Building on the PBWM framework ensures the robustness of the findings. The addition of the chunking mechanism tailors the original model for continuous visual stimuli. Chunk-stripe mechanisms contribute to the 'resource' aspect, while input-stripes contribute to the 'slot' aspect. This combined network architecture enables flexible and diverse computational functions, enhancing performance beyond that of the classical model.

Moreover, unlike previous studies that design networks for specific task demands, the proposed network model can dynamically adapt to varying task demands by optimizing the chunking gating policy through RL.

The implementation of a dopaminergic reinforcement learning protocol, as opposed to a hard-wired design, leads to the emergence of strategic gating mechanisms that enhance the network's computational flexibility and adaptability. These gating strategies are vital for VWM tasks and are developed in a manner consistent with ecological and evolutionary learning held by humans. Further examination of how reward prediction error signals, both positive and negative, collaborate to refine gating strategies reveals the crucial role of reward feedback in fine-tuning the working memory computations and the model's behavior, aligning with the current neuroscientific understanding that reward matters.

Furthermore, assessing the impact of a healthy balance of dopaminergic reward prediction error signals on information manipulation holds implications for patients with altered striatal dopaminergic signaling.

Weaknesses:

While I appreciate the novelty of the idea presented in this paper, which aligns with common interests in cognitive neuroscience, I believe there are several areas that require further clarification.

First, the method section appears somewhat challenging to follow. To enhance clarity, it might be beneficial to include a figure illustrating the overall model architecture. This visual aid could provide readers with a clearer understanding of the overall network model.

Additionally, the structure depicted in Figure 2 could be potentially confusing. Notably, the absence of an arrow pointing from the thalamus to the PFC and the apparent presence of two separate pathways, one from sensory input to the PFC and another from sensory input to the BG and then to the thalamus, may lead to confusion. While I recognize that Figure 2 aims to explain network gating, there is room for improvement in presenting the content accurately.

Still, for the method part, it would enhance clarity to explicitly differentiate between predesigned (fixed) components and trainable components. Specifically, does the supplementary material state that synaptic connection weights in striatal units (Go&NoGo) are trained using XCAL, while other components, such as those in the PFC and lateral inhibition, are not trained (I found some sentences in 'Limitations and Future Directions')?

I'm not sure about the training process shown in Figure 8. It appears that the training may not have been completed, given that the blue line representing the chunk stripe is still ascending at the endpoint. The weights depicted in panel d) seem to correspond with those shown in panels b) and c), no? Then, how is the optimization process determined to be finished? Alternatively, could it be stated that these weight differences approach a certain value asymptotically? It would be better to clarify the convergence criteria of the optimization process.

Author response:

We thank the reviewers for their constructive comments that will help us clarify and strengthen the paper. We will be happy to address all the comments and adjust the text accordingly. Regarding the suggestion in the assessment to include a “more thorough comparison with with human behavior”, we believe this comment reflects one of the reviewer’s comments to compare with order effects (primacy and recency); we did not see any other comments that would reflect this (our existing simulations do make contact with other human behavior regarding error distributions, including probability of recall, precision, sensitivity to reinforcement history, and dopamine manipulation effects on human WM). We thank the reviewers for this comment and we will conduct the appropriate simulations and analysis to compare with sequential effects in working memory.