On 2014 Oct 01, Arturo Casadevall commented:
We thank the writer for his comments. The writer is critical of several of the statements in our editorial. We respond to each individually:
Joshua L Cherry states that: ‘The arguments are framed in philosophical terms, but there is no philosophical content, and the underlying question is one of scientific judgment.’
We found this comment puzzling. Our paper includes discussion on two of the branches of philosophy: epistemology and ethics (by the writer’s own admission). Framing the GOF experiments within the normative standards of the field microbiology explores how we seek knowledge in the area. This together with discussion of ethical issues constitutes philosophical content.
Joshua L Cherry states that: “[W]hen one does a risk-benefit analysis of this issue, the epistemic gain from GOF experiments should be included in the bookkeeping: if one does that, the benefits of GOF experiments are potentially so great as to warrant our risking more than we otherwise might.” This is a puzzling assertion. All of the benefits that have been considered are benefits of the resulting knowledge (“epistemic gain”). Perhaps the authors mean to refer to an intrinsic good of having knowledge, independent of any practical applications. If so, it is possible, and helpful, to state this more plainly, as I have just done. If there is a philosophical issue here, it is one of ethics, not epistemology. Perhaps the authors are referring to the practical value of the knowledge beyond its direct applicability to the case at hand. In either case the argument is weak. These are common properties of experiments, not special properties of potentially dangerous GOF experiments. The resources used for such experiments could be reallocated to other experiments that lack the serious safety concerns yet also have epistemic value (on any meaning), and quite possibly more of it.’
The writer states that ‘all the benefits that have been considered are benefits of the resulting knowledge’. This is not the case. A reading of our paragraph describing the knowledge gained from GOF experiments considers the information that highly pathogenic avian influenza viruses can become mammalian transmissible useful because it provides a warning that these viruses have the biological potential to acquire this property. Prior to these experiments there was debate as to whether these viruses could become transmissible. Now we know that they can and that is a clear epistemic gain. But that epistemic gain goes beyond the utilitarian gain from any immediate application of this new knowledge, in part because of the many other possible future uses of that knowledge, some of them practical, but some of them purely theoretical. We have no disagreement with the notion that the subject of ethics is interwoven into considerations for GOF experiments. However, the idea that we should reallocate resources away from this type of work would accomplish nothing in helping us prepare against an influenza pandemic. As the currently developing Ebola epidemic in West Africa shows us we must continue research into highly dangerous pathogens for it is knowledge in medicine and science that provide the defenses against new threats from nature.
Joshua L. Cherry states that: ‘The authors make much of the claim that the GOF experiments meet the “normative standards of the fields of microbiology and infectious diseases”. This is faint praise for experiments that, many fear, might cause pandemics. We might question the merits of these standards, despite their being normative, and might ask whether they are sufficient conditions for value, or merely necessary. Even putting those questions aside, at best this point establishes that the experiments have nonzero value, not that they are exceptionally powerful, as must be the case to justify exceptional danger. Again, there are plenty of other experiments that also satisfy these standards without posing the same threat.’
Meeting the normative standards of the fields of infectious diseases and microbiology is high praise for GOF experiments for these fields have delivered some of the greatest successes in medicine. The writer appears to be mixing two issues that are very different: the fear and the power of GOF experiments. Fear can be minimized with strict laboratory safeguards that greatly reduce the likelihood of accidents. With regards to the power of GOF experiments, these have already taught us that highly pathogenic avian influenza virus has the capacity for mammalian transmission, as noted above. Since mammalian transmission is necessary for a pandemic this information is incredibly important. Humanity now stands warned that with a few sequence changes H5N1 influenza virus can acquire the property of mammalian transmissibility. The writer states that ‘there are plenty of other experiments that also satisfy these demands without posing the same threat’ but provides no examples. In fact, we counter that there is no other technology or mechanism short of waiting for epidemic to occur that could have provided this information. If there were, it is likely that a scientist would have pursued it by now. Hence, we stand by the words that these experiments are exceptionally powerful and that we lack alternatives if we are to seek certain types of knowledge.
Joshua L. Cherry states that: The editorial seems to suggest such fallacious reasoning as this: The discovery that HIV causes AIDS established a cause-and-effect relationship about a pathogen and was very powerful; GOF experiments have established cause-and-effect relationships concerning pathogens; therefore, GOF experiments are very powerful.
The key word here is “seems”: it is unclear how the writer infers this from what we wrote. GOF experiments trace their ancestry to the powerful scientific techniques that that have been responsible for some of the greatest successes in medicine including establishing disease causation and intervening against such diseases with vaccines and drugs. GOF experiments are fully within the normative standards of microbiology and molecular biology and as such they are incredibly powerful investigative tools that humanity can use to learn about microbial threats. As noted above GOF experiments have already produced highly valuable information that is not available from any other source.
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