Reviewer #3 (Public review):
Summary:
This is a timely article that focuses on the molecular machinery in charge of the proliferation of pallial neural stem cells in chicks, and aims to compare them to what is known in mammals. miR19b is related to controlling the expression of E2f8 and NeuroD1, and this leads to a proper balance of division/differentiation, required for the generation of the right number of neurons and their subtype proportions. In my opinion, many experiments do reflect an interaction between all these genes and transcription factors, which likely supports the role of miR19b in participating in the proliferation/differentiation balance.
Strengths:
Most of the methodologies employed are suitable for the research question, and present data to support their conclusions.
The authors were creative in their experimental design, in order to assess several aspects of pallial development.
Weaknesses:
However, there are several important issues that I think need to be addressed or clarified in order to provide a clearer main message for the article, as well as to clarify the tools employed. I consider it utterly important to review and reinterpret most of the anatomical concepts presented here. The way the are currently used is confusing and may mislead readers towards an understanding of the bird pallium that is no longer accepted by the community.
Major Concerns:
(1) Inaccurate use of neuroanatomy throughout the entire article. There are several aspects to it, that I will try to explain in the following paragraphs:
a) Figure 1 shows a dynamic and variable expression pattern of miR19b and its relation to NeuroD1. Regardless of the terms used in this figure, it shows that miR19b may be acting differently in various parts of the pallium and developmental stages. However, all the rest of the experiments in the article (except a few cases) abolish these anatomical differences. It is not clear, but it is very important, where in the pallium the experiments are performed. I refer here, at least, to Figures 2C, E, F, H, I; 3D, E; 4C, D, G, I. Regarding time, all experiments were done at HH22, and the article does not show the native expression at this stage. The sacrifice timing is variable, and this variability is not always justified. But more importantly, we don't know where those images were taken, or what part of the pallium is represented in the images. Is it always the same? Do results reflect differences between DVR and Wulst gene expression modifications? The authors should include low magnification images of the regions where experiments were performed. And they should consider the variable expression of all genes when interpreting results.
b) SVZ is not a postmitotic zone (as stated in line 123, and wrongly assigned throughout the text and figures). On the contrary, the SVZ is a secondary proliferative zone, organized in a layer, located in a basal position to the VZ. Both (VZ and SVZ) are germinative zones, containing mostly progenitors. The only postmitotic neurons in VZ and SVZ occupy them transiently when moving to the mantle zone, which is closer to the meninges and is the postmitotic territory. Please refer to the original Boulder committee articles to revise the SVZ definition. The authors, however, misinterpret this concept, and label the whole mantle zone as it this would be the SVZ. Indeed, the term "mantle zone" does not appear in the article. Please, revise and change the whole text and figures, as SVZ statements and photographs are nearly always misinterpreted. Indeed, SVZ is only labelled well in Figure 4F.
The two articles mentioning the expression of NeuroD1 in the SVZ (line 118) are research in Xenopus. Is there a proliferative SVZ in Xenopus?
For the actual existence of the SVZ in the chick pallium, please refer to the recent Rueda-Alaña et al., 2025 article that presents PH3 stainings at different timepoints and pallial areas.
c) What is the Wulst, according to the authors of the article? In many figures, the Wulst includes the medial pallium and hippocampus, whereas sometimes it is used as a synonym of the hyperpallium (which excludes the medial pallium and hippocampus). Please make it clear, as the addition or not of the hippocampus definitely changes some interpretations.
d) The authors compare the entirety of the chick pallium - including the hippocampus (see above), hyperpallium, mesopallium, nidopallium - to only the neocortex of mammals. This view - as shown in Suzuki et al., 2012 - forgets the specificity of pallial areas of the pallium and compares it to cortical cells. This is conceptually wrong, and leads to incorrect interpretations (please refer to Luis Puelles' commentaries on Suzuki et al results); there are incorrect conclusions about the existence of upper-layer-like and deep-layer-like neurons in the pallium of birds. The view is not only wrong according to the misinterpreted anatomical comparisons, but also according to novel scRNAseq data (Rueda-Alaña et al., 2025; Zaremba et al., 2025; Hecker et al., 2025). These articles show that many avian glutamatergic neurons of the pallium have highly diversified, and are not comparable to mammalian cortical cells. The authors should therefore avoid this incorrect use of terminology. There are not such upper-layer-like and deep-layer-like neurons in the pallium of birds.
(2) From introduction to discussion, the article uses misleading terms and outdated concepts of cell type homology and similarity between chick and pallial territories and cells. The authors must avoid this confusing terminology, as non-expert readers will come to evolutionary conclusions which are not supported by the data in this article; indeed, the article does not deal with those concepts.
a) Recent articles published in Science (Rueda-Alaña et al., 2025; Zaremba et al., 2025; Hecker et al., 2025) directly contradict some views presented in this article. These articles should be presented in the introduction as they are utterly important for the subject of this article and their results should be discussed in the light of the new findings of this article. Accordingly, the authors should avoid claiming any homology that is not currently supported. The expression of a single gene is not enough anymore to claim the homology of neuronal populations.
b) Auditory cortex is not an appropriate term, as there is no cortex in the pallium of birds. Cortical areas require the existence of neuronal arrangements in laminae that appear parallel to the ventricular surface. It is not the case of either hyperpallium or auditory DVR. The accepted term, according to the Avian Nomenclature forum, is Field L.
c) Forebrain, a term overused in the article, is very unspecific. It includes vast areas of the brain, from the pretectum and thalamus to the olfactory bulb. However the authors are not researching most of the forebrain here. They should be more specific throughout the text and title.
(3) In the last part of the results, the authors claim miR19b has a role in patterning the avian pallium. What they see is that modifying its expression induces changes in gene expression in certain neurons. Accordingly, the altered neurons would differentiate into other subtypes, not similar to the wild type example. In this sense, miR19b may have a role in cell specification or neuronal differentiation. However, patterning is a different developmental event, which refers to the determination of broad genetic areas and territories. I don't think miR19b has a role in patterning.
(4) Please add a scheme of the molecules described in this article and the suggested interaction between them.
(5) The methods section is way too brief to allow for repeatability of the procedures. This may be due to an editorial policy but if possible, please extend the details of the experimental procedures.