for - Deep Humanity - intertwingled individual / collective learning - evolutionary learning journey - symmathesy - mutual learning - Nora Bateson

for - adjacency - ecology of communications - Nora Bateson -:indyweb - Deep Humanity

Summary - A good summary of the common thread of an ecology of communication between 4 systems thinkers

adjacency - between - ecology of communications - Nora Bateson -:Indyweb - Deep Humanity - adjacency relationship - The author summarised the salient points of a Nate Hagen Great Simplification interview with Nora Bateson on the subject of an ecology of communications - It addresses the need to use language to speak on to multiple contexts of the conversants. - The epistemologically-foundational ideas of - people centered and - interpersonal information - of the indyweb / Indranet architecture are based on the Deep Humanity ideas of - individual / collective gestalt - each individual's unique lebenswelts - the multi-meaningverse inherent in any group - symmathesetic fingerprint - perspectival knowing - salience mismatch inherent in communication due to - encoding meaning from one unique meaningverse/ lebenswelts to common language code - deciding meaning from another unique meaningverse / lebenswelt

for - quote - Nora Bateson - book - Combining

quote - Nora Bateson - book - Combining - (see below)

• When you're dealing with living systems
  • you have to be careful that you don't get caught in engineering responses

for - book - combining - Nora Bateson - chapter - meet, not match - examples

book - combining - Nora Bateson - chapter - meet, not match - examples - match - SDGs - parenting - reward and punishment - problem / solution - poverty / money - climate change / negative emissions technology - war / peace - meet - mother nursing baby - parenting - understanding and communication

for - book - Combining - Nora Bateson - Meet, not Match - Wedding Vows

for - book - Combining - Nora Bateson - Meet, not Match - Getting lost together story

book - Combining - Nora Bateson - Meet, not Match - Getting lost together story - Getting lost together, when embraced creates the space to learn together - Nora learned that from getting lost with her children - Together, they learned how to cocreate a solution

for - book - Combining - Nora Bateson - chapter - Meet, not Match - a difficult chapter

for - progress trap - parenting - traumatizing our children - Nora Bateson - quote - Nora Bateson - progress trap - traumatizing our children

quote - Nora Bateson - progress trap - traumatizing our children (see below) - Let's face it, - If you create a traumatized child - you then have to have the capacity - for dealing with the traumatized child - So it's not just out of benevolence to him but also that - it's a lot easier to be in relationship with someone for the rest of your life that - you haven't damaged

for - progress traps - Nora Bateson - response to interviewer's comment on everyday example of complexity - parent encouraging children to go to school - example of mitigating progress traps - complexity is hard!

for - question - Entangled Worlds podcast - How do we cultivate intuition for complex systems - to access those higher order effects? - answer - Nora Bateson - practice everywhere

for - Nora Bateson - response to interview question - Is English language more separating? - Gedanken - Entangled Worlds podcast

response - Nora Bateson - Entangled Worlds podcast question - Is English more separating than other languages? - yes - Gedanken - Nora responds by posing a Gedaken that shows how culturally relative our worldviews are - Our enculturation plays a major role in shaping our worldviews - Ronald Wright's famous quotation about how the human brain has not substantially changed in the past 50,000 years implies that - between the present and anytime less than 50,000 years ago, - if we were transported back in time, we would simply adapt the same culturally norms at that time

epiphany - time travel and a clue to the deepest part of nature within human nature - This Gedanken suggests something important, namely that - if the seemingly immovable worldviews we adopt are a consequence of enculturation - then perhaps that which is the most fundamental aspect of our nature is not dependent on culture? - In other words, if we remove our enculturation, what is left is the most profound set of qualities of being human, - one that transcends all relative cultural perspectives

reference - Ronald Wright computer metaphor on progress traps - Ronald Wright's computer metaphor helps us see how fluid the enculturation of a neonate is - https://hyp.is/6Lb6Uv5NEe2ZerOrftOHfA/www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/321797-a-short-history-of-progress

for - Nora Bateson - response to interview question - Is English language more separating? - loosen up!

for - quote - Nora Bateson - progress trap

quote - Nora Bateson - progress trap - (see below)

• This is where we get into trouble
  • trying to solve problems in isolated ways

for - comparison - complexity - SDG logo vs baby - response - Nora Bateson - to Entangled World podcast interviewer's comment - unintended consequences can be paralyzing

comparison - complexity - Nora Bateson response - SDG logo vs baby - In response to the podcasters's question about how do we act for social change when - it appears that every action can have an unintended consequence? - Nora compares - UN SDG logo with 17 different areas of change - an image of a mother and baby - and she talks about how the image of the mother and baby is so intertwingled that it includes all 17 areas (and probably more)

for - quote - progress trap - Nora Bateson - book - Combining

quote - progress trap - Nora Bateson - book - Combining - (see below)

• In the singularity of its mission to hastily fix one malady at a time
  • the cure may be more harmful than the wound
• Most identified problems as they have emerged
  • are really the consequence or symptoms of other conditions
• The solution to the consequence is likely to perpetuate the actual problem

for - key insight - the unconscious - fundamental assumptions are the root problem - Nora Bateson

key insight, quote - the unconscious - fundamental assumptions are the root problem - Nora Bateson - (see below) - Even though we can point with - language and - statistics and - all sorts of measurements - to all the aspects of what we might call - the meta crisis or - the poly crisis - the real issues are: - insidious - they're underground - they're down in our our baseline premises of understanding - what life is and - what it means - To ask - what's in it for me - what's the point of this - where is this going - what am I going to get out of this - These type of questions that have to do with in some way embellishing our individual takeback - are deeply and totally unecological responses - so they're disrupting our possibility for perception

for - adjacency - AI - Nora Bateson - solving wicked problems - no - Human Intelligence - HI - yes - @gyuri

for - adjacency - open source - Stop Reset Go complexity mapping - objective - Nora Bateson comment on more information - diversity - Indyweb/Indranet - progress trap mitigation

adjacency - between - Nora Bateson comment - Stop Reset Go complexity mapping<br /> - open source - progress trap mitigation - Indyweb/Indranet

• adjacency relationship
  • When Nora talks about the
    • oversimplified,
    • reductionist
  • problem-solving approach that most of modernity employs to tackle wicked problems,
  • it boils down to oversimplification.
  • There are usually far more causes and conditions to a problem than are known to construct the solution
  • In Deep Humanity praxis, this is how we get into progress traps, the shadow side of progress
    • https://jonudell.info/h/facet/?max=100&expanded=true&user=stopresetgo&exactTagSearch=true&any=progress+trap
  • The Stop Reset Go complexity mapping system is designed to reveal greater information by
    • creating a space for diverse perspectives to systematically engage in addressing the same wicked problem
  • This system must be open source in order to create the space for maximum diversity
  • The Stop Reset Go process is specifically designed as a workspace for diversity for the purpose of
    • mitigating progress traps and
    • helping find more effective ways to address wicked problems
  • This is done by using Trailmark Markin notation within the Indyweb/Indranet people-centered, interpersonal software ecosystem

for - quote, key insight - progress trap - Nora Bateson

quote - progress trap - Nora Bateson - Nora hits the head of the nail with this observation - There are always multiple causes to one result - and by addressing only one cause, we cannot solve the problem, but in fact - allow it to continue and often make it worse - This is essentially another way of stating the teachings of millenia of Eastern philosophy, - that the universe is - infinitely interconnected - and its inherent nature of continuous transformation - Therefore, any state, which might be recognized as a problem state - is the result of many different causes and conditions coalescing

for - progress trap - Nora Bateson

for - quote - unconscious patterns locking us into colonial and industrial violence - Nora Bateson

quote - unconscious patterns locking us into colonial and industrial violence - Nora Bateson - (see below) - It's actually I think important in this moment of trying to get out of orientation to these - structures and - habits, - semantics and - epistemological patterns - that that lock us into the kind of thinking - that is the source of - the colonial violence and - the industrial violence - that we're living within

for - quote - progress trap - Nora Bateson

quote - progress trap - Nora Bateson - (see below) - it's really easy to get distracted by the alarms that are ringing - and like you said, there are many that pulls us into reaction mode - that has been long steeped in industrial responsiveness - which is to the first order - that is, if something is happening we want to stop that thing from happening - whatever it is, whether it's - a refugee crisis or - a nuclear war threat or a this or a that - and that first order response does not take into account - the next and the next and the next order of consequences - so it's a kind of thinking that is very much appropriate for - engineering, - for building machines - but it's not appropriate for complex living systems

adjacency - between - Nora Bateson comment on first order industrial responsiveness - progress trap - Stop Reset Go complexity mapping - Deep Humanity - progress trap - emptiness/shunyata - adjacency relationship - What Nora is saying is articulated within the Deep Humanity praxis using the language of progress traps - Dan O'Leary - https://jonudell.info/h/facet/?max=100&expanded=true&user=stopresetgo&exactTagSearch=true&any=dan+o%27leary - Ronald Wright - https://jonudell.info/h/facet/?max=100&expanded=true&user=stopresetgo&exactTagSearch=true&any=ronald+wright - which are the unintended consequences of progress - Deep Humanity praxis relates progress traps to the intertwingled Eastern philosophical ideas of - emptiness (shunyata) - https://jonudell.info/h/facet/?max=100&expanded=true&user=stopresetgo&exactTagSearch=true&any=emptiness - dependent arising and - https://jonudell.info/h/facet/?max=100&expanded=true&user=stopresetgo&exactTagSearch=true&any=dependent+arising - interdependent origination - https://jonudell.info/h/facet/?max=100&expanded=true&user=stopresetgo&exactTagSearch=true&any=interdependent+origination - In the context of the Stop Reset Go complexity mapping process, - to be integrated into the Indyweb / Indranet web 3 software ecosystem, - is designed to map multiple perspectives of how to solve a problem - so that we can see the many different solutions and avoid simply adopting a first order response solution - in so doing, it integrates complexity into our problem solving process and helps to mitigate - future progress traps in our solutions - The Indyweb / Indranet is a technology ecosystem designed to reflect the two pillars of emptiness: - (evolutionary) change and - interdependent origination / intertwingularity, - reflecting a universe that is fractally connected in all - dimensions and - scales - Stop Reset Go will be integrated into the Indyweb/Indranet as a specific Markin notation.

for - book - Combining - Nora Bateson - podcast - Entangled World - Navigating the greatest challenges of our time - interview - A New World Combining - Nora Bateson

summary - Nora discusses her book, Combining

from - Nora Bateson interview on the inadequate problem/solution framework for addressing wicked problems - https://hyp.is/xeeZyCFlEe-ywQvdYbMieg/docdrop.org/video/kb-hsIv9zoE/

from - Nora Bateson interview discussing - the inadequacy of the problem / solution framework in addressing wicked problems - https://hyp.is/xeeZyCFlEe-ywQvdYbMieg/docdrop.org/video/kb-hsIv9zoE/

• for: Nora Bateson, Book - Combining, space of possibilities, disorientation, Douglas Rushkoff, Team Human

• for: quote, quote - Nora Bateson, quote - double bind

• quote: Nora Bateson

  • being able to recognize a double bind is wonderful it's a really good thing to know how to do
  • it won't solve it for you but it will keep it from tearing you in half and that's something
  • generally you have to do a jump or come from another context
    • the response to double bind is never on either side of the bind, like never, which is so hard in a culture that is completely committed to linear strategic change making and solving if the if the solution looks nothing like the problem

• for: quote, quote - Nora Bateson, quote - polycrisis - individual

• quote

  • the individual is carrying the load for the polycrisis

• comment

  • the individual is carrying the load of the polycrisis but it is unfair

• for: holism, polycrisis, quote, quote - Nora Bateson, quote - polycrisis, intertwingled problems

• quote

  • This is what happens when we don't tend to the whole, things break. The responses that get made to one part at a time and then those responses create more problems.
  • So you say we have to address the climate change problem so clearly we have to stop producing carbon.
    • but that sends the economy into complete failure.
    • If you send the economy into complete failure, then you're going to not have health systems and people aren't going to support themselves and your going to have food crisis

• for: quote, quote - Nora Bateson, quote - polycrisis, decontextualized perceptions

• quote

  • some people refer to the multiple contextual crises of this era as a polycrisis some people refer to it as a meta crisis I prefer poly crisis but we won't get into that discussion today and this is what happens when for a century and a half we have decontextualized our perception of the world and
    • education is separated from politics is separated from economics
    • is separated from family
    • is separated from ecology or the environment and now we have crises looming and we have environmental crises we have got crises in the education system we've got crisis in the health systems
• author: Nora Bateson

• for: polycrisis, quote, quote - polycrisis, quote - Nora Bateson

• quote

  • every time we pick at one piece of those polycrisis we end up actually creating more problems in other contexts

• author: Nora Bateson

• example

  • climate change If we do, all emissions suddenly, we will create an economic crisis, then without money, a health and social crisis

• for metacrisis - Nora Bateson, double bind - Nora Bateson, Nora Bateson double bind - Nora Bateson

• for: Moloch, definition, definition - Moloch, trancontextual decontextualised reductionism, Nora Bateson

• comment

  • those is similar to Nora Bateson's description of decontextualised reductionism
    • https://hyp.is/vS3QOm49Ee69E8e7ZWchKg/docdrop.org/video/j44AVKgdORs/

• for: symmathesy, mutual learning, mutual transcontextual learning, individual collective entanglement, Indyweb, Indraweb, Indynet, Indranet

• definition: symmathesy

  • mutual transcontextual learning in living systems

• comment

  • symmathesy lay at the heart of the Indyweb and Indraweb

• for: symmathesy, mutual learning, mutual transcontextual learning, individual collective entanglement, Indyweb, Indraweb, Indynet, Indranet

• definition: symmathesy

  • mutual transcontextual learning

• comment

  • symmathesy lay at the heart of the Indyweb and Indraweb

• for: intentional community, intentional communities, DAO community, decentralized cities, Jonathan Hillis, Nora Bateson, intentional communities - failure
• comment
  • this is a critical question
  • unfortunately, many people have tried living in intentional communities over many decades and the success rate is not high
  • listen to what Nora Bateson has to say about her experience of living in idealistic intentional communities and why they fail
    • https://hyp.is/ISC75i5JEe6lgW93D0Ye_A/docdrop.org/video/GE39xfNRRyw/

and

https://hyp.is/ISC75i5JEe6lgW93D0Ye_A/docdrop.org/video/GE39xfNRRyw/

• for: ecological civilization
  • Nora Bateson
    • Nora shares about the many diverse intentional communities she has lived in and found them all dysfunctional.
    • The problem is that they have a mission statement, a purpose.
    • The perspectival knowing is different for each person.
    • How do you nurture unintentional community?
    • support unintentional possibility
    • top-down instructional is an unecological process
    • The question "who can you be when you are with me?" is preferred over "what should you be?"

• for: ecological civilization, degrowth, futures, deep ecology, emptiness, polycrisis, human exceptionalism, planned descent
• source
  • The Great Simplifcation
  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE39xfNRRyw

• Description

  • Nate hosts this discussion on what constitutes an ecological civilization with guests
    • William Rees
    • Rex Weyler
    • Nora Bateson

• Reflections Overall,

  • an insightful discussion on the polycrisis and
  • reflections on what is in store for civilization.
• There is consensus that
  • what we are experiencing has been decades in the making and
  • the solutions-oriented approach to solving problems has only treated the symptoms and indeed has made things worse.
• There is a strong undercurrent of the emptiness in nature

• Rex

  • emphasized the folly of human exceptionalism that has been socially normalized and which
  • continues to create the major separation that fuels the polycrisis.
  • Not recognizing that we are nature, not recognizing our animal nature
  • we look upon nature with an attitude of controlling nature, rather than flowing with her.
  • advocated Taoism as a more consistent way to frame nature rather than the reductionist, control methodology that separates us from nature.

• Nora's perspective is the folly of abstraction that generates fixed preconceptions of aspects of nature that we then reify.

  • The fixed preconceptions are solidified but they are an oversimplified version of reality,
  • and that oversimplification leads to actualizing the cliche"a little knowledge is dangerous" into civilization
  • in other words, the continuous manufacture of progress traps.

• William sees our impending crash as not only inevitable, but natural.

  • In this, he concurs with Rex's perspective.
  • Human beings are simply another species and like them,
    • we are susceptible to population explosions when negative feedbacks are removed,
    • which can lead to nature self-correcting with mass dieoff when resources are overconsumed.

• for: progress trap

• example

  • progress trap
    • quote
      • Where we get caught is thinking that we can identify a static snapshot in an ecological process
      • and get control over it, we can enact something upon it,
      • and thinking that we can do that toward what has been perceived as a positive outcome.
      • Without recognizing that with all of these different organisms that are changing each other all the time,
      • we're actually going to make a mess. -author
      • Nora Bateson

• Nora Bateson
• great example of
• warm data:
  • a doctor who used to visit her mother at her home home
    • the doctor's report of her mother's condition
    • make up the "cold data"
    • but it only told a part of the story
    • the other part of the story was not recorded in the formal medical transcripts
    • but was recorded in the living, breathing doctor
    • who experienced the conditions Nora's mother lived in
      • Was the room warm, or cold?
      • Was there a lot of family support?
      • Was there a lot of love in the human relationships? etc

From the question arises the need to coin a new term, aphanipoiesis. The question is the definition.

People are trying to change something that they cannot perceive. Therefore, the only changes that are apparent are incremental changes to the existing system. It is a catch-22.

A definition for symmathesy.

The project is related to a word coined by Nora Bateson in her article, Symmathesy: A Word in Progress.