18:35 Before asking if AI is conscious ask if HUMANS are Conscious :-)

4:05 - This is pure Game Theory

Let us create an OMNIGAME theory

Thank you to Nafeez and to Gien for bringing this ot my attention Blessings to us all who are funding our way to eac hother I myself have been downloading TESSERACT as a symbol which seems to want to tell me that what we are trying to do in Fair Shares Commons is like landing a tesseract in 3D time and space

Yes, this would mean we are ERGODIC and not just a 501c3 and not just an FSC

YEs Kauffman will fund a company that is NOT a not for profit if its terms of assocaition say it has a charitable function. 501c3 for kauffman is all about TAX ANd yes, we can set up an LLC with an FSC bye laws just as easily

I will also set up an 501c3 with FSC byelaws Annisa says she will set one up Rob says he will set one up Michael may get his contacts to set on up

Paul will createa 501c3 as a RESEARCH instrument to apply for Kauffman;s research grant My hope is that IAN's 501c3 will apply for the PROJECT Grant that holds the eco-system of 501c3 fair shares commons

So nto everyone has a telegram account so that is even a splinter group even though it was asked for by some members of the team So we still have an email list and a telegram grop and they are not synchrinised

The meeting with Gyuri was a request from him to meet PAUL so that we could ground on the threads for the RESEARCH application I asked Donan to attend but I did not not ask others to attend as I do not want to place demands on people's time and space This is why I recorded it and sent it around If people then ANNOTATE the call the way I am doing here, Gyuri has data that he can use to develop technology based on what he is himself involved in and not just as a service provider

ANd I shall make you FISHERS of men :-)

This is where SROI (Social Return on Investment) DATA will help us bridge the gap In a recent call in Ireland a football team scored a 17:1 SROI score for their impact on community

If we accept re-incarnation then are we regenerative?

Kauffman is just our sandbox. We may NOT get their funding. But as soon as we have clarity, structure, documents, templates, we will find the right funder

Very deep meme for us at this time fast capitalism alongisde slow mutualism

or perhaps we can say slow capaitalism alongside fast mutualism

Tapping to the MMT theory, if a 501c3 is not taxed, then why does it need dollars??? We are close to some understanding some fundamental incoherencies

We welcome the idea of HYBRID SOCIAL ENTERPRISE which can have profit making processes that are professional and not for profit processes which are vocational

We aslo see philantropy as a parasite We are attuned to Dan Palatto's work in Unchariotable and his TED talk

Not for Profit is a way to infiltrate the parasite of PROFIT that has come to symbolise incorporation

The reason we are setting up a 501c3 is that the donors have made it easier to receive funding beacse they get a tax write off

Why isnt Evolutesix then the most profitable FSC that it can be?

It is unsafe to assuem that we all knwo hwo a company is incorporated Even senior executives do nto know how their companies are incorporated Most SME founders do NOT know the meaning of how their company is incorporated

Thank you Marie. You embody the SPIRIT of a 555 FSC

Can we all know and understand this graphic. It is quite deep in the powerpoint.

Could we begin to use organism rather than organisation?

if we speak into the incoherence, we might creaet more of it?

I have been shown in medicine that extinction is an act of Divine Love. Unstable, destable and degenertaive are all aspects of death and new life Can we find a way to position instability as an evolutionary process?

We also need to fund a way to create a currency which also has at least the same level of systemic trust as money

Michel Bouwens has been transcribed as WE SHALL BALANCE :-)

We need an agreed symbol to interrupt if it is time sensitive

The plan is to create a pool of learning and documents so that any one of us can apply for funding to create an FSC with a 501c3 as the legal entity with FSC bye laws that can be adapted

The emergenrt natur eis that we are holding spoace for the creation of an eco system of 501c3's with FSC bye laws

This is why we are raising the money - to offer this benign parenting support of helping us all to pay for what we need so that we do what we love For now, I am using thew term Universal Learning Income

Just like Royalty from ancient times to now

I have realised why COLLABORATION is limited. The word only relates to LABOUR. It is only that we share work. We do not share heart, love, prayer, food, shadow, time, space, etc etc

CHECK AND TWO SECONDS PAUSE

As a Dialogue group, we have the chance to practice allowing the other to end their sentance, for which they can say CHECK Then TWO SECONDS Then the next person can join from the eternal silence

We are hoping to create a COLLECTIVE COMMONS for our annotations The ancient model is the Celtic SPirtual ANNAL such as the book of kells or Leabhar Gabhala (Book of INvasions) where multipel wisodm keepers over generations add their wisdom IN BETWEEN THE LINES

For now, Gyuri and Gien call it Hyperpost

We are using hypothesis (as in this annotation) to play with what tools we have now

Gyuir and Gien intend to make it CROSS PLATFORM

They are using the term INDYWEB and INDRAS NETS

Thank you so much for creating the meeting and for holding space It is not intended that any one person ought to be a central point of contact We are to become autocatalytic - energies arise and fall and all that is is and all that is not is not Some people will not show up Some people will show up all the time We are all equally included We are all One

What do we mean by preferred? What do we knwo about the the colelctive shadow that was not harvested?

Capture is a word from war Can we use a word like Gather?

Why reward modelling? Can this create a pavlovian affect / effect?

A very limited intention - just to maximise apporoval What abotu to access the quantum potential?

We like the term Undividual rather than Individual Individual means undivided whole but we have come to understand it as separate.

Why only opinions and critiques? What about potentials? What about shadows? What about Qualia?

This is the same process as Quaker Clerks of Meetings have been doing for nearly 400 years

This shows the importance of language Yet, the language can come FROM the group rather than be PUT TO the group

What if consensus at the group meeting does not last after the meeting is over?

In Dialogue, DISCUSS comes from Percuss or Concuss - beating an idea to death. In Dialogue, the idea is held open for us all to witness and explore beenath its symptom, its explicate, by delving into its implicate as an undivided wholeness

Yes. And the collective must also be able to reach disagreement and still stay in Dialogic relations

Just like Robinhood did in the GameStop Story

By annoying all knowledge, we evolve the annotation into WISDOM

I love that Gien uses this term of TRAILBLAZING :-)

Brehon Law is the same

This is the CORE of Dialogue

Winning arguments is a core source issue that is a problem - this is why DIALOGUE is much more effective

We too note that most issues are not problems, they are symptoms. This is why we synthesised an action learning process which we now call Cohesion Circle - to get to the source of the symptom

I was told that THIS nasty little problem if ours is a parasite from Sirius lodged in our limbic brains millennia ago

We see this not as consensus, rather as COHERENCE

I wonder where Dan is in 2024. We would love to connect with him to discover such

In another ceremony, I have been shown that there is a parasite in our limbic systems - I was told that some people know it s ID (Jung)

I have been shown in sacred ceremony that this is the case. That there are an unlimited number of parallel universes operating in real time in one 3D space which we call earth.

And which other parallel universes call something else in their dimensions.

Amanda Mireles is using hypothesis for students to get their own video clips and to annotate them for other students.

Students took scenes from THE BIG BANG and used literature and academic references to relate to the scene

Rachel Derr showing how hypothesis can be used to deal with ethical and private issues in nursing care

I am watcing hypothesis annial awards and using hypothesis to gather our collective wisdom.

I have just placed this text into that seminar. Hypothesis is a modrn digital example of how ancient Druids were recorded by Celtic Monks to keep wisdom. A monk wrote down what a Druid said. They wrote the material in large letters with large gaps between the lines. When the monk died, a new monk woiuld take over the wisdom keeping. The new wisdom keeper wrote IN BETWEEN THE LINES and ON THE SIDE LINES. These were called glossaries becase they wrote in GREEN INK. Glas is the Irish word for Green.

1:33:38 When there is new EVIDENCE, we CHANGE OUR MIND

1:30:05 We can create an ERGODIC Neighbourhood

1:28:29 Government spends by creating money and when it taxes, the government destroys money

1:27:32 A Community Bill of Rights

1:26:14 Marlborough can become a Commons

1:25:22 First comes an AGREEMENT by members of the neighbourhood to co-operate and then they agree to use a mechanism called money to mobilise resources

1:24:34 Money is not the scare resource. Money is the organising tool that mobilises people and tangible resources to manifest a vision

1:24:14 We can organise our resources such that it can attract the money that regenerates across all types of capital and all types of nature

1:23:52 What does Donut Economics look like in Marlborough Neighbourhood?

1:23:30 How can a neighbourhood become a local food PRODUCER evolving into a PROSUMER

1:23:06 How can we get a neighbourhood to operate at full capacity (strengths) while minimising to its collective shadows

1:22:36 Could A community Association get a Community Banking Licence? 1:22:38 Could a local Credit Union be a consortium partner and issue more money into the system to develop the entire wealth of the Neighbourhood

1:22:23 How much UNUSED RESOURCES are there in Marlborough Neighbourhood? How more efficaciously can they be used?

1:21:54 If a community moved to a WELLNESS model rather than an ILLNESS model, it would generate millions of dollars in saved resources 1:21:54 If a community moved to a PREVENTION model rather than a CURE Model, it would generate millions of dollars in resources

1:21:44 By identifying WASTE - we can identify capacity to create VALUE for ALL

1:21:01 Corporations price hike during shortages to make more profits

1:14;46 Our greatest existential threat is not CLIMATE CHANGE it is MIND CHANGE which leads to a CHANGE IN LANGUAGE

1:10:56 Your checking account is your bank's I.O.U. It is their liability that they owe you. 1:11:08 When you repay a loan, THE MONEY DISAPPEARS

1:09:52 A Bank LOAN is an interest attached to your own ability to pay back something that did not exist before you borrowed it

1:09:59 A bank officer ACQUIRES the loan in order to charge interest on it

1:09:09 Banks DO NOT make loans from deposits. They make MONEY from LOANS.

1:08:50 Using BANK MONEY to create a mutual fund at low interest rates to pay off PREDATORY LOANS at high interest rates

1:06:53 The true constraints are the resources that are available (and if those resources will co-create together for the good of the WHOLE).

1:08:08 What is the Economy of Marlborough (for example)

1:05:36 Instead of asking DONORS for money, a community can make its own money and donors can contribute to a healthy local economy as a participant rather than a funder

1:04:44 Debt mirrors in NATURE as the seeds, plants, trees, flowers, roots, soil, water, nutrients, pollinators, worms, rock and minerals - WE ARE IN DEBT TO NATURE - NATURE GIVES US SURPLUS

1:03:51 By getting people used to DEBT being SAVINGS, they can focus on the REAL things that matter

1:02:29 The national debt is a historical record of the cumulative money that a government spent dollars than it took out which were transformed into US Treasuries

1:00:18 We should not even use the term borrowing

56:48 The USA borrows money from China IS NOT TRUE. China converts its dollars from selling stuff to the USA to a US treasury bond which earns them interest rtaher than just sitting in a checking account

56:12 When the Community Treasury spends more of its money, people in the community have more to spend

53:36 A community can set up a CONTRIBUTION which everyone agrees to pay in the currency issued by the community issuer 53:48 Therefore a Debt Free Currency System really means a COMMUNITY TRIBUTE money system where the debt is a contribution to the community, payable in the currency of the issuer 55:45 A community can set up its own CENTRAL BANK that sets the interest rate at zero for the money in the community

53:04 Money is the debt of the issuer

50:32 Currency is the governments I.O.U. 52:04 When the government gets its tax, it no longer has the debt so it burns the currency which was an I.O.U.

48:52 Example of a Community Currency

48:37 Money is an I.O.U.

46:45 Money is an ACCOUNTING DEVICE and it always has two sides

44:17 Private Balance + Government Balance + Foreign Balance = 0 (I-S)+(G-T)+(X-M)=0

40:40 UMKC created its own currency - the Buckaroo 40:42 Students had to pay buckaroos to get their grades

39:59 DEFICIT is a word designed to shock and frighten

37:34 A government DEFICIT is that a government is putting IN more than it is taking out

36:10 If a government can create money, why is it in DEBT?

34:59 A government does not need money. It needs citizens to need money so that they can pay taxes

Governments FORCE PEOPLE TO NEED MONEY

34:47 Taxes drive demand for a currency

34:12 taxes are imposed by a government that is only payable in their currency and they make a law that puts you in jail if you do not pay their tax

33:33 If government creates money, we do we pay taxes?

32:59 Joan Robinson, we study economics so as not to be fooled by economists

32:12 Money is not a REAL resource. Money is a too invented by political authorities to organise and mobilise real resources

30:38 Money is not a physical object. It is a UNIT OF MEASURE

28:08 UMKC is one kilometre from our location in Kansas - literally at the end of 53rd street where we live :-)

26:30 Bernard Lietaer - founder of the EURO

25:38 MMT changes our view on the nature of money

23:10 MMT is not a new system or theory. It simply explains what happens today.

22:32 In early colonial times, once taxes are paid in paper money, the money was burned

18:59 Warren Mosler 19:49 Government does not need dollars, citizens need dollars 20:18 Warren is not an economist - he is not trying to defend economic theory - he is a financial trader watching the operation of money

18:47 Stephanie Skelton was sceptical at the start too

18:17 A government who creates a currency does not need to tax its citizens to get dollars. 18:25 Currency issuers spend first before they tax - they do not use tax to spend

16:08 During the war, the USA moved 50% of the nations production to WAR. It woudl take a simple political decison to move 50% of the nations production to peace if peace is as profitable as war

14:22 The government spends money into existence

11:42 For a currency issuer, funding the money is NEVER the problem

11:11 :-) Mathew Forstater University of Missouri Kansas City (UMKC)

9:31 Jared Bernstein fails to answer this question coherently. "I dont get it" !!

9:16 Why are we borrowing in a currency that we print ourselves?

7:19 We wont run out of money

6:48 Federal Government Issues Currency

6:27 Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)

Stephanie KELTON Stony Brook University

5:49 95% of the problems with policy is the language used to describe the policy

5:35 Rename Debt clock as savings clock Use of COHERENT Words instead of INCOHERENT Words

5:27 National Debt is an ASSET Place HUMANS on a Balance Sheet and treat them as assets

5:17 Let us evolve beyond the BATTLE FOR IDEAS through Dialogue

4:28 Let us create the money at community level

Fair Shares Commons is a process as well as being a legal entity

QUERY What are the 20204 tools that have caught up with the vision

FOR This is a very e very exciting development towards VALUE CREATION in the COMMONS

QUERY Is there a taxonomy for data, information, insightr, knowledge, ontology, wisdom, cosmic knowing etc?

EXTENSION We would love to use these methods as a way to co-create Digital Dialogues such that members of a Dialogue group can synchronously and asynchronously annotate what is going in beneath their words and language

FOR David Bohm spoke to this deeply as a way to show that when people speak, they do so from re-representations which are slightly different to that which they heard This is how communication becomes INCOHERENT

QUESTION How has AI began to do this already?

DISSENT Surely, the point of humanising text is that humans actually THINK about it rather than THOUGHTS put in by others?

For COMMON RECORD - ties in with the idea of the Commons as part of ancient wisdom traditions such as Brehon Law

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=764eba5d1847feae5e5a29b34d573adcea4c3f77521cd6b69e58e41d26596384JmltdHM9MTcyNzU2ODAwMA&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=4&fclid=026c4e4b-ac70-6791-11e3-5a77ada36673&psq=brehon+law&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly9lbi53aWtpcGVkaWEub3JnL3dpa2kvQnJlaG9u&ntb=1

and more modern version of Commons such as MIcjhel Bouwens P2P Foundation

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=15aa85ad8ae6be46c850bd758bfcda68c07f8bcb456b63e06a6f6fca96e0b88cJmltdHM9MTcyNzU2ODAwMA&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=4&fclid=026c4e4b-ac70-6791-11e3-5a77ada36673&psq=p2p+fouyndation&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly9wMnBmb3VuZGF0aW9uLm5ldC8jOn46dGV4dD1UaGUgUDJQIEZvdW5kYXRpb24gaXMgYSBub24tcHJvZml0IG9yZ2FuaXphdGlvbiBhbmQgZ2xvYmFs&ntb=1

For Adjacent Knowledge

We have been introduced to Stuart Kauffman's work on The Adjacent Possible which feels related

https://www.ted.com/talks/stuart_kauffman_the_adjacent_possible_and_how_it_explains_human_innovation?utm_campaign=tedspread&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=tedcomshare

According to David Bohm 1991 paper, 'Thought is the Problem"

https://www.humiliationstudies.org/documents/BohmDialogue.pdf#:~:text=%C2%A9%20David%20Bohm,%20Donald%20Factor,%20Peter%20Garrett%20reinforce%20a%20kind

POTENTIAL The potential is for a record of COLLECTIVE INSIGHT

It also feels important that human MISUNDERSTANDING can act as a catalyst for COMPASSION

Prior to the 12th centuries Celtic Monasteries were doing this in the 6th century

Beyond Industrial Religion Instead of Industrial Religion - we can choose a new phrase wch has no incoherent baggage of 'industry' or 'religion' which have had their negative realities

Johnson Su We are planning to use Johnson Su technologies to restore soil as a regenerative being GIen Ương & Food Production Process Gien knows about a food product system that has a massive output

FOR Eirunomics intends to VALUE meaning, work and values

PROFIT When did profit come into the equation?

BioRegions This is now a fancy term called BioRegions

Glendalough IN the 6th century, Saint Kelvin founded a monastery at which there were hundreds of clerics and thousands of lay workers surrounding the monastery

Insight This is what humans are NOT on the balance sheet. Humans are the PRODUCT that is sold in an organisation. All lavbour costs are added to with PROFIT Quantum Balance Sheet For this willing, placing humans as an asset on the balance sheet transforms labour into an ASSET rather than as an expense

Insight Abrahamic Religions also places the human as an original sinner Demiurge This sounds like a Demiurge concept

PRACTICE This makes the COMMONS a very important social structure

Quantum Balance Sheet This is the idea we have of a Quantum Balance Sheet which acts as a collective consciousness manifesting process for tangible and intangible values for a collective - beyond the power and control of the shareholders - hence the need for a Fair Shares Commons

Eirunomics In service to the Divine - in whatever form Divine acts on the human bio psychosocial awareness

History The roman army did not conquer Ireland Comment The Roman Army conquered Ireland through the Roman Catholic Church

Benedictines Benedictines have been in Ireland since the 12th century PRE-Benedictines These were the Druid classes who lives as a Commons and who set down their civil stature according to BREHON LAW which was written down by 6th and 7th century monks in Ireland

Christian Monastic Communites

This gives Ireland a pivotal role as our Gaelic ancestors developed a form of Celtic Spirituality which according to some authors 'saved Europe from teh dark ages'.

Etymology of Salvific

"tending to save or make secure," 1590s, from Latin salvificus "saving," from salvus "uninjured, in good health, safe"

We use the term Undivided Wholeness as reminded to us by David Bohm

Gaelic IN Gaelic, the term we use is Sabhailte

FOR This is exactly what Eirunomics is proposing to do with its DAGDA streams: D ~ Dialogue A ~ Ancient Wisdom G ~ Generative AI D ~ Debt Free Mutual Credit / Currency and A ~ Alterative Collective Healing and all in teh form of a Fair Shares Commons which acts on Terra through Soil, Water, Food and Energy

ACTION Taking this as a good idea, it means Eirunomics uses a similar approach to ANCIENT WISDOM as a RELIGIO rather than a religion

Insight I am also reminded of the Hanseatic League which formed in the 14trh century

Opportunity If education is failing, then we have an opportunity to increase peer to peer insight co-creation and curation

insight Post-Literate means PRE-THOUGHT and PRE-Word - we have to get into the collective unconscious at the stage of thought formation

It seems I can annotate yet I cannot see your annotations Gien???

FUNCTIONALITY IDEA: When there is no transcript, how do we MARK the timestamp to link the annotation to TIME rather than to WORDS?

Reflections on Failings of David Bohm Society

1. 0:48 Failing is an important aspect of Dialogue
2. 0:59 Crisis means the point at which a system must change
3. 1:00 We must also name what is going right in human culture
4. 1:10 We must also place human evolution in a cosmic frame of cosmic evolution
5. 1:14 If thought is in crisis, this means it is at the point of change
6. 1:14 Bohmian Dialogue is a practice of such change
7. 1:15 In my experience, many institutions that are formed to support evolution, do not want to evolve themselves. They are nor pro-prioceptive. The humans who run them do not want to examine their own thinking process
8. 1:47 Save the Whales - So many phds and directors and advisors. What if they are all PARASITES and do nto want to evoelve, for to do so would end their economic rewards in being involved in the institution?
9. 1:50 We need less of these people too, we need ordinary people, farmers, child carers, gardners, more real people and less intellectuals
10. 2:13 Bohm's prize is to change the nature of consciousness. If the Bohm Society did this for one idea in one person, then consciousness is changed and there is no failing
11. 3:09 Why do we need to avert catastrophe? Surely we need catastrophe to reboot?
12. 3:30 Why is there an urgency? We have billions of years left to evolve yet?
13. 4.00 yes, we have seen people do not want to DIALOGUE - they want to discuss Dialogue :-)
14. 4:24 Good idea. Work with an existing group to do Dialogue rather than working with a Dialogue group to do something else
15. 4:41 Great analagy. What is the SOIL for Dialogue?
16. 6:32 Finding people to LIVE the proposals is what we are doing. We are doing this in the USA and in Europe. And yes it needs funding. We are translating Bohm's ideas with other ideas and submitting funding applications. It is with this funding that we can answer some of the basic Bohm questions about thought as a process
17. 7:27 It is strange that the Krisnamurti world do not do that? There is no equivalent David Bohm centre and if there were, perhaps they would nto do it either, becase they would all prioritise the survival of the institution rather than the true inspection of thought
18. 7:55 what is the missing ingredient?
19. 8:07 this is why we are creating a Fair Shares Commons as an economic hub. We are linking Dialogue to Ancient Wisdom, Debt Free Currency, AI and Alterative healing
20. 8:18 this is why we propose a physical living and working space in Kansas and Lough Derg (Ireland) 21 8:32 yes, we making it virtual and local and global 22 8:42 yes. we make this a spiritual practice based on a link to the ancient Gaelic goddess Eiru and to other pre-christian cosmic deities 23 9:17 We are setting up ways to measure the value of it on a profit and loss account and on a balance sheet. We want to create a community balance sheet that is founded on Bohmian principles. 24 9:43 surely speaking with hundreds of people IS communicating? What do you feel is missing? 25 10:08 We have seen people change in one minute when they are presented with their own incoherence. We have video evidence of it. We do this all the time. 26 10:43 As in most endeavours, YOU are the problem, and we say that with our arms around you. You create your own incoherence. 27 11:14 Even Bohm was not a full time Dialoguist. He was a teacher who dabbled in Dialogue. He died on the verge of something. We have chosen to examine this something to take his work forward in real life. 28 11:26 There was only one Christ and One Buddha and one Confucius. It only takes One fractal to transform such that all fractals transform 29 12:16 CURIOUS ABOUT BIRBECK??? 30 12:34 We need to BE COHERENT :-) 31 13:45 What is COGCI Labs? 32 13:55 Funding has to come first :-) 33 14: 37 How do you expect to get help when you turn the COMMENTS OFF??

Guyrie - building it for small groups

Gien is talking about Indyweb - a Web 3.0 stack In contrast to central servers - (broadcast) Indyweb = small trust networks (no limits) People centred Interpersonal Local First Information owned by PERSON and stored locally Give people permission to others to share Assign trust levels to different people Surf web - store locally - visiting sites as a PROCESS FB and LI stores YOUR search on THEIR server Store my own queries - as a constellation MindPlex is a current name External representation of a digital life - recorded and locally Network the mindplexes together We each have our own Mindplex Our own salient ideas Share parts of our network that are SALIENT We share information Interpersonal communications channels Indyweb - SW development project - Douglas Engelbart - Ted Nelson - transclusion - Vannavar Bush - Memex - Guyrie has a phd around these ideas INformation commons

Paul is now annotation based on clicking the text in the web page

Paul is now making an ANNOTATION

I am now making a real time annotation as Gien is speaking.

Changing a view of the file - This is also a philosophical invitation - to see the information as WHOLE

Gien is talking about PERSONAL TRUST networks

SALIENCE

PERSONAL perspectives in SMALL GROUPS

Gien, here is me testing placing an annotation on this page.

I will spend more time on the video and annotate in real time in a few days.

I am very excited at this potential

These views are the ones I see from the window of where I lived. My hope is to move into a piece of land that borders the Lough. The place is called Cluanmoylan.

The music is so haunting. It is the opening music to the movie Michael Collins. Irish music lands deeply in my soul.