who is queer?

like Miss Bates? Does Miss Bates have sense?

Autism?

Perhaps Isabella did marry someone like her father

Would George have been sent away if he was the eldest?

Test?

Emma certainly admires Harriet's appearance (though is clear sighted that H is not clever), some have taken this to mean she's attracted and this sentence could be used to back that up

This sort of boy talk should put Knightley against Elton - it's an older version of locker room talk - reducing women to their money (or bodies)

Cliche says otherwise

On a re-read this is very funny

Austen knows people - 200+ years later this is still the same, men choose attractive women despite intelligence or personality

See Emma's arguement to Harriet in chapter 7 "A woman is not to marry a man merely because she is asked, or because he is attached to her." Also Fanny in Mansfield Park to Edmund "I think it ought not to be set down as certain that a man must be acceptable to every woman he may happen to like himself" (chapter 35)

Can indignation be tall? Is this meant to imply he seemed taller because he was indignant?

Mr K wanted Mr W out of the way so he could have this conversation with Emma - I don't think this is the only occurance of wanting Mr W gone so they could monopolise Emma.

Is this Austen giving us permission to laugh? Mr Woodhouse is slightly ridiculous but always treated with such respect

How busy Emma's imagination is!

Emma says something similar to Mr K later. Fanny says this to Edmund in Mansfield Park too.

Cher uses this logic (in Clueless) to tell Tai that she should only do drugs at parties even though she's only a few months older

Is this an indication that Harriet can play the piano? it's not mentioned so perhaps these songs are for singing?

And out of the way?

Do we hear what happens to the portrait later? It might be awkward to have it hanging around after the friendship ends. In the 2020 adaptation Emma gives it to Mr Martin which I thought was fitting

this sounds unbearable - to have two people praising something you know doesn't deserve it - it feels like toadying

Mr Weston is in trade, not a farmer, so this seems like a odd question espeically as he's not asking Mrs Weston what she thinks of the weather like she can't have a rational thought herself.

How is Emma expected to find a husband? There aren't enough equals around for her to attach herself to, it's no wonder she fantacises about Frank. She should really have a season but of course her father couldn't bear to have her leave

Foreshadowing! And it does do her good.

Here is a dutiful wife!

Note that this is a seperate sentence, like it's an after thought. He's heard what he said and had to modify it.

"She's pretty. But I don't like her. I'm allowed to say that because we're friends."

But Emma herself would not make him a good wife. Later she bites her tounge when he invites the Elton's despite her disliking them. He's too generally agreeable for Emma.

To a modern eye this line is very uncomfortable.

Doing as you're told, like a child! No wonder Emma wants to avoid marriage.

I'm sure I'm not the only person who can relate to this

Mr Knightley still chooses Mrs Weston as a confidant despite knowing she is very much under Emma's influence. I'm struck that this seems like parents discussing their child - in a way they are both parental figures but....then Emma marries Mr K

Is this true? Older people tend to get away with things because they're "from a different time"

The poor must be "deserving"

Austen tries to counteract readers bad opinion of Emma by having us follow her on charity work, it is mentioned in other novels but never to this extent

This echoes in Mansfield Park "when they first saw him he was absolutely plain, black and plain; but still he was the gentleman, with a pleasing address. The second meeting proved him not so very plain: he was plain, to be sure, but then he had so much countenance, and his teeth were so good, and he was so well made, that one soon forgot he was plain; and after a third interview, after dining in company with him at the Parsonage, he was no longer allowed to be called so by anybody" (chapter 5)

"Romances" or more what we'd call adventure stories perhaps today. What he does read is relevant to his job and he's much more well read than Harriet

We assume Emma would have walked with a maid or man servant, not literally alone. The non pleasantness was probably about having no one to talk to rather than dangers of walking unchaperoned

This recalls Maria Lucas meeting Lady Catherine in Pride and Prejudice

A big deal is made of gruel in (I think) the 1996 Emma with Gwyneth Paltrow

She's not clever, but she shows deference so she must have good sense. Oh Emma! She's so easily flattered

Emma may be the one telling this fairytale. It's like one of the 'romances' that Harriet herself reads

Fairytale again! also lovely alliteration, Austen does enjoy it

None of these women are Emma's intellectual equal. You could say she's too smart for her own good

because young girls were a nuisance? Does this reflect how Jane felt about going to school, away from her family and the house full of boys? it's a bit odd as she chose to go with Cassandra

Comparison to Emma - who later makes the comparison herself

Is this Emma's thoughts? "uncommon degree" sounds like something Emma might say

foreshadowing!

Mr Woodhouse the introvert, I feel you

This whole paragraph seems to be listening in on Mrs Weston's thoughts

This is a delightful insight into how gossip spreads in Highbury and introduces us to characters we will meet later. Many inhabitants of Highbury are mentioned throughout giving us an idea of the community though most of them don't speak

Does this indicate that Captain and Mrs Weston lived elsewhere during their marriage?

How did they know about 3 years they weren't going to have a child? what if they had? What would have happened to Frank??

This echoes Austen's own brother Edward's adoption by wealthy relatives, he took their name when they died and he inheirited.

There may be echoes of Fanny Price too, she's "adopted" by the Bertram's in Mansfield Park.

This indicates that the practise was likely widespread

Austen uses gratitude throughout her novels as a basis for love (Henry to Catherine in Northanger Abbey and Elizabeth to Darcy in P&P)

How differently does Anne Elliot feel in Persuasion! She would do so much for her family despite being ashamed of them but you get the impression that she'd give them up in the end to be with Wentworth, she knows they won't be happy with her marrying him.

It's back to sounding like a fairytale, but could also be overheard gossip of Highbury

Other Austen characters maintain their military titles (Colonel Brandon) why not Captain Weston?

Emma's a snob but her closest friend is a governess who she marries to a man of the army who is now in trade - his family are not gentry. Are there no people of "appropriate" rank around? She's an interesting contradiction.

But her father can't!

A hint at the travellers who appear later?

Is Emma flirting or is this a younger sister teasing an older brother?

The age gap and the family relationship both can make this a little icky - though people talk about it less than Marianne and Colonel Brandon in Sense and Sensibility

Personally I prefer when they modernise the spelling but it seems "the thing to do" to keep the original

Emma is really mothering her father here

There's something childlike about Mr Woodhouse. There is a developmental stage where children learn that people think and feel differently. Emma knows that people think differently - she just thinks they're wrong

This is lacking in the adaptations where he's portrayed as fussy and irritating

Later it's mentioned that Emma didn't really get sick - is this a mistake or merely that she only had minor illness?

This is Emma's self congratulating thoughts

Continuance of life? could this be a brief mention of suicide??

I do think Emma is wondering how she can continue to live without her companion and best friend with only her father for company

Austen is trying to bring darkness into this chapter - evils, seemed, threatened, danger - but like Emma we're carried away and don't notice

Classic Austen irony- these aren't "evil" at all! at least not to Emma but perhaps to those around her

Is this parentification?

Austen's niece Fanny look over the "lady of the house" role when her mother died and didn't marry until she was 27 - into another established family

Already there are hints that all is not as it seems. Emma's life is not so perfect. We shortly learn her mother has died, yes, she's been replaced by a loving governess but losing a mother is still a big deal

This starts like a fairytale and Emma is the princess. But who is telling us this tale? Is this how Emma sees herself? How her society sees her? We learn as we go into the novel that Emma isn't as perfect as she's percieved.

Them being such suck ups sits wrong with me. Like Anne I wish they had a bit more pride

This confirms Elizabeth did think Mr Elliot was interested in her despite at least Lady Russell being clear he was there for Anne.

Compare her thoughts in chapter 4 "she should yet have been a happier woman in maintaining the engagement". Is Anne rewriting the past (like Wentworth saying she's never altered above vs so altered he wouldn't know her again)?

Austen shies away from revealing what characters say at pivotal moments, perhaps to avoid misinterpretations?

Are chairs "a thing" in Bath? They're mentioned in Northanger Abbey too but no where else

As an introvert I feel this. Over peopled, over stimulated, just need space and everyone in your face "are you ok?"

Looks seem to be very important in their reunion. He mentions a look in his letter, there is this repetition here and in the cancelled chapter it's a look that passes between them rather than any words

Women have a higher pain tolerance than men and tend to out live them yet there continues this idea that men are the stronger sex! Side note: watching videos of men trying menstrual pain stimulators are eye opening Anne does make this point further down

This is certainly the case for Anne, she's been to Bath once and Uppercross (only 3 miles away!) several times but otherwise she hasn't moved and her circle hasn't changed.

Jocelyn Harris mentioned in her talk "Who is Captain Wentworth" that this a reference to a specific historical person who painted Austen's brother Frank's (a sailor) portrait. The Thing about Austen podcast does a full episode (29) on this miniature.

This makes me wonder if he did know of her from Captain Wentworth. He's only seen her less than 12 hours over 3 or 4 separate days. He does talk to her about deeply personal issues, some might argue he's dissing his friend

Hmm except he's dissing Charles Hayter for being "too cool about sporting"

Is it this knowledge of him that made her notice his contempt of Mary's snobbery (re the Hayters) and dislike of Dick Musgrove? Or is it because she's more of an observer than an active participant? For a third time we see through his social façade

This reminds me of "Mr. Hurst also made her a slight bow, and said he was 'very glad'" (P&P chapter 11)

The formality of Elizabeth vs Anne walking with Charles and Mary to visit the Musgrove party.

Charles is talking about shooting and getting approval from one of the three landed gentry to shoot on their land, because shooting is all important to Charles

poor Charles really needs entertainment - he and Mary are similar in that way

Do Mrs Clay and Elizabeth still think Mr Elliot is after Elizabeth rather than Anne? Is Elizabeth very dense or just seeing what she wants to?

She still can't be open with Lady Russell about her feelings for Captain Wentworth and what she thinks his feelings are for her

Is Mr Elliot capable of love? could his pursuit of Anne really be explained by anything else (as it doesn't assist with his goals)?

Perhaps the money didn't give him the happiness he sought? Perhaps he now wants the added power of rank and importance to add to his money

It's difficult for a modern reader to find anything really offensive in this letter. Anne knows how her father and sister are - there's no surprises there - and family pride or pride of rank isn't quite the same now days. Perhaps a modern equivalent would have a lot of swearing and wanting to burn the house down with them in it?

This sounds very much like Miss Crawford in Mansfield Park (far too many instances to quote)

Perhaps only now realising that this mercenary way of going on was not, is not ok.

Mrs Smith stops herself from speaking badly of Elizabeth. This is so different from now; a friend would bitch about a friends sister. Mrs Smith is polite but is this really open and honest?

She goes from neutral to vicious really quick!

Is Mr Elliot a sociopath?

People are so used to servants that they don't even notice them. Austen doesn't always mention the servants, assuming readers will "see" them in the background anyway

See also Emma "A woman may not marry a man merely because she is asked, or because he is attached to her" (chapter 7) and Mansfield Park "I think it ought not to be set down as certain that a man must be acceptable to every woman he may happen to like himself" (Chapter 35)

This implies that her cheerfulness is false in this instance but it also raises the questions whether it's always genuine

Does she know Anne at all? Has her experience at the hands of Mr Elliot made her question whether there is any real friendship?

Mrs Smith would have been a fan of gossip sheets like Lady Whistledown in the Bridgerton series

He's referring to Mrs Smith here, completely unaware that Anne is in contact with her. The audacity to use her memory to his advantage when he doesn't care for her now

Colonel Wallis is very useful - telling the Elliot's about the first wife earlier and here ensuring Mr Elliot gets the seat by Anne, then distracting Elizabeth to keep her happy. He's been, I think, entirely removed from the adaptations. This the only time we see him in the book

This reminds me of Tom Musgrave in The Watsons waiting in his own room to conveniently arrive at the same time as, and become part of, the Osborne party

What delights she will experience as the wife of a Navy captain!

Like her feelings for Bath?

She's coming to the realisation that he still loves her but it's so at odds with his previous behaviour

He believes Louisa to be intellectually inferior to Captain Benwick, not a choice he would make for himself - like his sister and her husband he wants a marriage where they can meet as equals. Having said that...on this reading I've been questioning how smart the Admiral is

In Jane Austen the Secret Radical Helena Kelly suggests that Mary is pregnant during the course of the novel. Is Mary a hypochondriac? She is the youngest child and like Anne probably didn't get much attention (even less from her mother as she was younger when she died). Have we been unjustly maligning Mary this whole time - could she have a chronic illness? Or is it about being an extrovert and really needing to feed off other people to feel "up"?

He's attempting to "rescue" her again (this would make it 3 if he succeeded) how terrible for him that she is instead "rescued" but her cousin, the very man who's attention awakened him to his own feelings

Not sure if she's implying that Anne will move away when she marries or Mr Elliot will convince her to drop the friendship

Tell us what you really think!

Once the story focused on Anne we mostly followed her (occasionally we see into others thoughts such as Lady Russell) this may be the first scene that breaks that pattern

He's conscious of being in love with her and trying to figure out if they can get back together. He's so awkward!

Another hint perhaps of their secret flirting

The Admiral is pretty keen to get Wentworth married off!

In the 1995 adaptation this interaction is how Anne learns of the engagement

Mrs Croft is such a great character, Austen seems to praise her every time she's mentioned. You can imagine she'd slide right into modern life easily.

I don't understand why she doesn't tell them. Is it because she's aware they think Captain Wentworth will marry Louisa? Is the engagement not sufficiently public? It's such a great piece of gossip! Though Anne is not one to gossip, perhaps she might have behaved differently were it not a "visit of ceremony" and her family not present

Interesting echo to Lady Russell's thoughts about "the man who at twenty-three had seemed to understand somewhat of the value of an Anne Elliot, should, eight years afterwards, be charmed by a Louisa Musgrove" (Persuasion Chapter 13). She thinks it speaks badly of him to find someone superior to Anne, just as Anne almost can't believe that Louise prefers anyone to Captain Wentworth.

Sir Walter is so self centred he can't image that the Admiral (a very high rank - perhaps the highest? - in his profession) ever had a life or an acquaintance before renting Kellynch

Austen does enjoy having characters contradict themselves - see Mary's comment in the earlier part of the letter about them not improving as neighbours

Because her convenience is more important than an invalids. Ah Mary

Hinting at Mary being a hypocrite. She was away from her children in Lyme and later in the letter suggests leaving them while she visits Bath

Is this the first hint that he is slowly seducing her behind the scenes?

I think this is why we glimpse Captain Wentworth sneering at Mary when she's being a snob and rolling his eyes at Mrs Musgrove when she's grieving her useless son. We see his humanity. His is a "frank...open-hearted..eager character" who's sincerity she can depend on because he "sometimes looked or said a careless or hasty thing"

The 2007 adaptation makes this a reality - Captain Wentworth buys Kellynch as a "wedding present". It's a shame because it seems to be closing her prospects rather than opening them as they would be with the possibility of travelling the world with her husband.

Oh the irony! He's the reason Mrs Smith is in financial straits. Mrs Smith returns the favour by bad mouthing him (quite rightly) to Anne. Having "no surname of dignity" means Mrs Smith could be anyone so Mr Elliot doesn't make the connection

In the 1995 adaptation Anne does say this. In reality it would have only made things uncomfortable for her, she is right not to speak. Her father would not understand her meaning and Elizabeth would take offense. Does anyone recall if she expresses this in the other adaptations?

It's possible Mr Elliot is in her thoughts here

I feel like Mrs Smith would enjoy reality TV

Mrs Smith is naturally a positive person but, like Anne, employment and feeling useful helps her. Anne's reaction seems to indicate that she would not deal as well as Mrs Smith in the same circumstances and perhaps that Mrs Smith would have dealt better with a broken engagement

Could this be considered a visit of charity? Anne surely views it as a visit of friendship. But charitable visits were acceptable, in theory it should have been acceptable to her family (if they were themselves "acceptable").

She sounds just like Anne! Anne was grieving her mother and Miss Hamilton/Mrs Smith stepped into a mothering role a little.

Note that Miss Hamilton's situation is like that of Harriet Smith in Emma, no relations and no where to go so they stay at school

I'd like to think that Anne would support Mrs Clay and Sir Walter if she thought they were genuinely in love but she can see Mrs Clays mechanisms - this may be her motivation rather than that Mrs Clay is "beneath him" (though it would be a match that shocked)

The "scrawl" indicates that she may be right but they do spend a lot of time with these cousins, at the concert it is just their party

Brings to mind Anne de Bourgh

Such a careless response after all their drama and many, many letter drafts no doubt

Imagine Elizabeth having to make way for the former Mrs Clay! As we learn later she and Sir Walter don't enjoy sucking up when no one is sucking up to them in turn

The Thing About Austen podcast did an episode on Gowland (ep 44)

She refers to him as not handsome! Henry Golding as Mr Elliot is one of the few gifts of Persuasion 2022 (tried to attach a picture but it didn't work)

This is the third time Anne has had to change her concerns/thoughts for the society she's in 1. when she went to Uppercross, 2. when she went to Kellynch Lodge and now 3. in Bath

Note the lofty in the previous paragraph in comparison

This is a hilarious image - all based on the family tree. Mr Elliot is part of the family but Sir Walter is not his father, he is the head of the family estate

This reminds me of Elinor Dashwood's "I never think of tame and quiet children with any abhorrence." (S&S chapter 21)

The scene is chaos but it's what the Musgroves enjoy, it's not to Anne's temperament and considering what we hear of Louisa after her accident it's unlikely to suit her either

We can assume that all Austen's heroines performed charitable duties but the only one we ever witness directly is Emma.

This sounds very much like Mary purposely dropped her scissors to get his attention and it's failed

Did she give him space to talk? Did she want him to engage her in conversation or pander to her?

Perhaps Charles is one of the family members who believes Lady Russell persuaded Anne to refuse him because he wasn't bookish enough

Yet when it comes to Mr Elliot, who is still in mourning and was actually married, everyone is fine with him pursuing Anne

This shows how lovely the Harvilles and The Musgroves are, I can see them being friends for the rest of their lives. Good kind people

They are both kind and practical women, it makes sense that they'd like each other

All the changes indicate that the Crofts are practical, thinking of the servants convenience - they can get their own umbrellas rather than sending for them, the door was a nuisance - and not as obsessed with appearance as Sir Walter. They even move the looking glasses themselves.

Another quote that deserves more popularity

This visit to Lady Russell is, I think, universally left out of adaptations - she goes from home to Uppercross, from Uppercross to Bath

The children seem even an afterthought to Austen

It's never clear how many children the Musgroves have. Charles, Louisa and Henrietta are the only "grown up"

She does love to be useful but what about Mary's children at the cottage? It was standard during this time period to leave their children with the nurse, nanny or governess but it still feels wrong

This is a great cliff hanger to end the first volume. Will Louisa live? It seems like Captain Wentworth intends to marry her but what about Anne? and what of the mysterious cousin and heir?

Mary's selfishness knows no bounds. Anne is a much more capable person and does care for Louisa, it sounds rude to refer to their connection as "nothing" it echoes how Anne's family seem to regard her. It also leaves the two unmarried women to travel unaccompanied with an unrelated male - perhaps had they appealed to Mary with her importance as a married woman they may have had success

He calls her by her first name!

Here is a couple that communicates well! and they are very practical, they know what needs to be done and they do it

The reader knows things Anne doesn't!

Note she is with two young and pretty ladies but he notices her!

It was obviously the Musgrove family story that Lady Russell persuaded Anne to not marry Charles. But it hints that they may have somehow or other heard of her influence over Anne previously otherwise it's a very big coincidence

In the 2007 and 2022 adaptations Captain Harville gives the impression that he knows who Anne is ie at some point Captain Wentworth told him of their history, likely they were at sea together directly after

How Marianne Dashwood would appreciate Captain Benwick!

The result of the conversation with Captain Wentworth while in the hedgerow

The reversal of this the in the last chapter (almost an epilogue) is hard to swallow

Captain Wentworth barely knows them either. With the Admirals views of "anyone will do" it's surprising that he has such a happy and well matched marriage.

He's recused her for a second time

How could he possibly know this? He's known the family for less than a month. Is it normal during this time period to talk about refused proposals? This seems insensitive. At what point would it be appropriate for him to reveal to Louisa that he was once engaged to Anne? How would she feel about that?

Weird that Louisa says this, which is exactly what happened to Wentworth, but he doesn't believe that's the case

He almost certainly has Anne and their broken engagement in mind during this interaction. He has no idea what the consequences of this speech will be - Louisa's accident is a direct result of his words

Even if things don't work out between Henrietta and Mr Hayter, Louisa is shit talking her enough to ruin her chances with Captain Wentworth, all the while ensuing he knows that Louisa herself isn't like that

Again, showing his true feelings but he's too polite to respond to Mary's snobbery

It seems like Louisa is determined to patch things up between Mr Hayter and Henrietta...potentially so she can have Captain Wentworth to herself

Louisa may be reflecting back to Mrs Croft's words about preferring to be on board ship with her husband than alone on shore

In the 1970s miniseries (which huge hair) one of the Musgrove sisters asks Anne for an appropriate poem on this walk. In the 2022 adaptation Mary snipes at Anne when she tries to recite telling her she doesn't like poetry or it makes her sick (can anyone find the quote?)

This might be Anne's life philosophy

Mary is not good at "reading the room" and chooses to see only what is most flattering to her

Probably the "French window" ie French doors

He "rescues" her!

shiny object syndrome?

ie. marrying her, the daughter of a baronet

All Baronets were "created", either bought or gifted by the crown. Mary wants Sir Walter to remain superior because he's more "established"

To a modern reader this seems very quick - they've only seen him 4 or 5 times and everyone is already speculating on who he'll marry!

Charles is obviously a family name (Charles Musgrove, Mary's husband; Charles Musgrove, Mary's son; Charles Hayter and one can presume Charles Musgrove senior, Mary's father in law). Names were often reused - Austen makes fun of it in the first chapter "all the Marys and Elizabeths".

We could assume that their family is local as they married close to each other - but their remaining family is never mentioned as ranking so they may be from further afield or be all gone.

It's not mentioned but you have to wonder if in the back of his mind he likes Anne seeing the Miss Musgroves flirting him and that is an unspoken reason he wants to stay, to get a petty revenge

Is she telling Mrs Musgrove this because she thinks Wentworth will marry one of the Miss Musgroves?

It's unclear if Captain Wentworth honestly thinks women require more care and better accommodations or whether he is avoiding women in general because of Anne. This line of Mrs Croft's is beautiful. There is a modern web series adaptation called Rational Creatures. I think this is an echo of Mary Wollstonecraft, Austen uses the term again when Elizabeth Bennet is rejecting Mr Collins proposal (P&P chapter 19)

Is Austen fatphobic? Earlier in this paragraph she mentions that fat people are more fit for "good cheer and good humour", the stereotype of the happy fat person still exists today. But in the following paragraph Austen seems to apologise saying everyone, whatever their size, has a right to be emotional and it's a distasteful to ridicule emotional people for their size

Captain Wentworth is too polite to say what he really thought of Dick Musgrove but, unlike Mr Elliot, he does show his emotions and thoughts aren't always pleasant

This seems to be his philosophy after losing Anne - either gonna make it or die trying

This must be painful for both Anne and Wentworth, the period referring to was just after their broken engagement and here the Admiral is speaking of wives. Austen doesn't point this out - it's up to the reader to "read the room"