126 Matching Annotations
  1. Last 7 days
    1. https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2022/12/the-ethics-of-syndicating-comments-using-webmentions/

      Not an answer to the dilemma, though I generally take the position of keeping everything unless someone asks me to take it down or that I might know that it's been otherwise deleted. Often I choose not to delete my copy, but simply make it private and only viewable to me.

      On the deadnaming and related issues, it would be interesting to create a webmention mechanism for the h-card portions so that users might update these across networks. To some extent Automattic's Gravatar system does this in a centralized manner, but it would be interesting to see it separately. Certainly not as big an issue as deadnaming, but there's a similar problem on some platforms like Twitter where people will change their display name regularly for either holidays, or lately because they're indicating they'd rather be found on Mastodon or other websites.

      The webmention spec does contain details for both editing/deleting content and resending webmentions to edit and/or remove the original. Ideally this would be more broadly adopted and used in the future to eliminate the need for making these choices by leaving the choice up to the original publisher.

      Beyond this, often on platforms that don't have character limits (Reddit for example), I'll post at the bottom of my syndicated copy of content that it was originally published on my site (along with the permalink) and explicitly state that I aggregate the replies from various locations which also helps to let people know that they might find addition context or conversation at the original post should they be interested. Doing this on Twitter, Mastodon, et al is much harder due to space requirements obviously.

      While most responses I send would fall under fair use for copying, I also have a Creative Commons license on my text in an effort to help others feel more comfortable with having copies of my content on their sites.

      Another ethical layer to this is interactions between sites which both have webmentions enabled. To some extent this creates an implicit bi-directional relationship which says, I'm aware that this sort of communication exists and approve of your parsing and displaying my responses.

      The public norms and ethics in this area will undoubtedly evolve over time, so it's also worth revisiting and re-evaluating the issue over time.

  2. Nov 2022
  3. Aug 2022
    1. handled5 what the receiver does with the content is (wisely) out of scope suggestions for two patterns: reply: specify atom thr:in-reply- to mention: include rel="mentioned"

      ```xml

      <entry xmlns='http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom'> <id>tag:example.com,2009:cmt-0.44775718</id> <author> <name>test@example.com</name <uri>bob@example.com</uri> </author> <thr:in-reply-to xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0' ref='tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-893591374313312737.post-3861663258538857954'> tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-893591374313312737.post-3861663258538857954</thr:in-reply-to> <content>Salmon swim upstream!</content> <title>Salmon swim upstream!</title> <updated>2009-12-18T20:04:03Z</updated> </entry> ```

    1. This is a living document. Ideas or feedback can be contributed through commenting directly using Hypothes.is which will create issues in the Github repo or you can directly create an issue: https://github.com/FAIRIslandProject/Generic-Place-based-Data-Policy/issues

      How awesome is this sort of integration? If one can use annotations to create issues within Github, it should be relatively easy for websites to do similar integrations to allow the use of Hypothes.is as a native commenting system on website pages. The API could be leveraged with appropriate URL wildcard patterns to do this.

      I have heard of a few cases of people using Github issue queues as comments sections for websites, and this dovetails well into that space.

      How might the Webmention spec be leveraged or abstracted to do similar sorts of communication work?

    1. I've been using WP as visible part of my zettel, which I keep in Obsidian. The only inconvenience is that I don't know how to make visible backlinks on pages that has links to and from.You can look how it works for yourself. Half of my WP is in Russian the section with books is fully in English. Browse there to see how it all works. Post your thoughts what you think about it.

      I know that a few people have been using the Webmention and the Semantic Linkbacks plugins for WordPress together to show the backlinks in the "comments" section of their posts/pages. Perhaps this may work for your purposes?

      A recent example I've seen someone put together on WordPress that does something similar (though not using Slippy) is https://cyberzettel.com/.

      In a similar vein, though not with WordPress, Kevin Marks mocked up a UI for an incoming/outgoing links in the mode of a Memex that also leverages Webmentions for part of the functionality: https://www.kevinmarks.com/memex.html.

  4. Jul 2022
    1. https://x28newblog.wordpress.com/2022/07/13/pruning-for-output/comment-page-1/#comment-4960

      I love that you're adding links to the responses back and forth for future reference. I remember doing this manually several years back, but its a practice I rarely see. Both Stephen and I are using the Webmention spec to do this for our selves in an automatic fashion. (Mine display on my site in the comments, though I don't think Stephen does presently.) On wordpress.com you'd likely need to have a higher paid tier to add the plugins to enable this for WordPress, though depending on how often you do this it may be worth it?

    1. Instead of building a comments section, why not build it to send/accept Webmentions? (Webmention.io and Webmention.js with some help from Brid.gy) could implement this pretty quickly without much additional work.) This would allow your digital garden to communicate directly with others' as well as other sites online including Twitter?

    1. https://openmentions.com/

      A community site in the form of HackerNews, Reddit, et al or IndieNews or IndieWeb.xyz that runs on material submitted by webmention.

      I thought I'd bookmarked it earlier this year when it opened up.

      Run by Matt: https://lordmatt.co.uk/

    1. The most common way is to log the number of upvotes (or likes/downvotes/angry-faces/retweets/poop-emojis/etc) and algorithmically determine the quality of a post by consensus.

      When thinking about algorithmic feeds, one probably ought to not include simple likes/favorites/bookmarks as they're such low hanging fruit. Better indicators are interactions which take time, effort, work to post.

      Using various forms of webmention as indicators could be interesting as one can parse responses and make an actual comment worth more than a dozen "likes", for example.

      Curating people (who respond) as well as curating the responses themselves could be useful.

      Time windowing curation of people and curators could be a useful metric.

      Attempting to be "democratic" in these processes may often lead to the Harry and Mary Beercan effect and gaming issues seen in spaces like Digg or Twitter and have dramatic consequences for the broader readership and community. Democracy in these spaces is more likely to get you cat videos and vitriol with a soupçon of listicles and clickbait.

    1. reply to: https://ariadne.space/2022/07/01/a-silo-can-never-provide-digital-autonomy-to-its-users/

      Matt Ridley indicates in The Rational Optimist that markets for goods and services "work so well that it is hard to design them so they fail to deliver efficiency and innovation" while assets markets are nearly doomed to failure and require close and careful regulation.

      If we view the social media landscape from this perspective, an IndieWeb world in which people are purchasing services like easy import/export of their data; the ability to move their domain name and URL permalinks from one web host to another; and CMS (content management system) services/platforms/functionalities, represents the successful market mode for our personal data and online identities. Here competition for these sorts of services will not only improve the landscape, but generally increased competition will tend to drive the costs to consumers down. The internet landscape is developed and sophisticated enough and broadly based on shared standards that this mode of service market should easily be able to not only thrive, but innovate.

      At the other end of the spectrum, if our data are viewed as assets in an asset market between Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, et al., it is easy to see that the market has already failed so miserably that one cannot even easily move ones' assets from one silo to another. Social media services don't compete to export or import data because the goal is to trap you and your data and attention there, otherwise they lose. The market corporate social media is really operating in is one for eyeballs and attention to sell advertising, so one will notice a very health, thriving, and innovating market for advertisers. Social media users will easily notice that there is absolutely no regulation in the service portion of the space at all. This only allows the system to continue failing to provide improved or even innovative service to people on their "service". The only real competition in the corporate silo social media space is for eyeballs and participation because the people and their attention are the real product.

      As a result, new players whose goal is to improve the health of the social media space, like the recent entrant Cohost, are far better off creating a standards based service that allows users to register their own domain names and provide a content management service that has easy import and export of their data. This will play into the services market mode which improves outcomes for people. Aligning in any other competition mode that silos off these functions will force them into competition with the existing corporate social services and we already know where those roads lead.

      Those looking for ethical and healthy models of this sort of social media service might look at Manton Reece's micro.blog platform which provides a wide variety of these sorts of data services including data export and taking your domain name with you. If you're unhappy with his service, then it's relatively easy to export your data and move it to another host using WordPress or some other CMS. On the flip side, if you're unhappy with your host and CMS, then it's also easy to move over to micro.blog and continue along just as you had before. Best of all, micro.blog is offering lots of the newest and most innovative web standards including webmention notificatons which enable website-to-website conversations, micropub, and even portions of microsub not to mention some great customer service.

      I like to analogize the internet and social media to competition in the telecom/cellular phone space In America, you have a phone number (domain name) and can then have your choice of service provider (hosting), and a choice of telephone (CMS). Somehow instead of adopting a social media common carrier model, we have trapped ourselves inside of a model that doesn't provide the users any sort of real service or options. It's easy to imagine what it would be like to need your own AT&T account to talk to family on AT&T and a separate T-Mobile account to talk to your friends on T-Mobile because that's exactly what you're doing with social media despite the fact that you're all still using the same internet. Part of the draw was that services like Facebook appeared to be "free" and it's only years later that we're seeing the all too real costs emerge.

      This sort of competition and service provision also goes down to subsidiary layers of the ecosystem. Take for example the idea of writing interface and text editing. There are (paid) services like iA Writer, Ulysses, and Typora which people use to compose their writing. Many people use these specifically for writing blog posts. Companies can charge for these products because of their beauty, simplicity, and excellent user interfaces. Some of them either do or could support the micropub and IndieAuth web standards which allow their users the ability to log into their websites and directly post their saved content from the editor directly to their website. Sure there are also a dozen or so other free micropub clients that also allow this, but why not have and allow competition for beauty and ease of use? Let's say you like WordPress enough, but aren't a fan of the Gutenberg editor. Should you need to change to Drupal or some unfamiliar static site generator to exchange a better composing experience for a dramatically different and unfamiliar back end experience? No, you could simply change your editor client and continue on without missing a beat. Of course the opposite also applies—WordPress could split out Gutenberg as a standalone (possibly paid) micropub client and users could then easily use it to post to Drupal, micro.blog, or other CMSs that support the micropub spec, and many already do.

      Social media should be a service to and for people all the way down to its core. The more companies there are that provide these sorts of services means more competition which will also tend to lure people away from silos where they're trapped for lack of options. Further, if your friends are on services that interoperate and can cross communicate with standards like Webmention from site to site, you no longer need to be on Facebook because "that's where your friends and family all are."

      I have no doubt that we can all get to a healthier place online, but it's going to take companies and startups like Cohost to make better choices in how they frame their business models. Co-ops and non-profits can help here too. I can easily see a co-op adding webmention to their Mastodon site to allow users to see and moderate their own interactions instead of forcing local or global timelines on their constituencies. Perhaps Garon didn't think Webmention was a fit for Mastodon, but this doesn't mean that others couldn't support it. I personally think that Darius Kazemi's Hometown fork of Mastodon which allows "local only" posting a fabulous little innovation while still allowing interaction with a wider readership, including me who reads him in a microsub enabled social reader. Perhaps someone forks Mastodon to use as a social feed reader, but builds in micropub so that instead of posting the reply to a Mastodon account, it's posted to one's IndieWeb capable website which sends a webmention notification to the original post? Opening up competition this way makes lots of new avenues for every day social tools.

      Continuing the same old siloing of our data and online connections is not the way forward. We'll see who stands by their ethics and morals by serving people's interests and not the advertising industry.

  5. Jun 2022
  6. May 2022
    1. GWG, Some random thoughts:

      Your challenge question is tough, not just for the mere discovery portion, but for the multiple other functions involved, particularly a "submit/reply" portion and a separate "I want to subscribe to something for future updates".

      I can't think of any sites that do both of these functionalities at the same time. They're almost always a two step process, and quite often, after the submission part, few people ever revisit the original challenge to see further updates and follow along. The lack of an easy subscribe function is the downfall of the second part. A system that allowed one to do both a cross-site submit/subscribe simultaneously would be ideal UI, but that seems a harder problem, especially as subscribe isn't well implemented in IndieWeb spaces with a one click and done set up.

      Silo based spaces where you're subscribed to the people who might also participate might drip feed you some responses, but I don't think that even micro.blog has something that you could use to follow the daily photo challenges by does it?

      Other examples: https://daily.ds106.us/ is a good example of a sort of /planet that does regular challenges and has a back end that aggregates responses (usually from Twitter). I imagine that people are subscribed to the main feed of the daily challenges, but I don't imagine that many are subscribed to the comments feed (is there even one?)

      Maxwell's Sith Lord Challenge is one of the few I've seen in the personal site space that has aggregated responses at https://www.maxwelljoslyn.com/sithlordchallenge. I don't think it has an easy way to subscribe to the responses though an h-feed of responses on the page might work in a reader? Maybe he's got some thoughts about how this worked out.

      Ongoing challenges, like a 30 day photography challenge for example, are even harder because they're an ongoing one that either requires a central repository to collect, curate, and display them (indieweb.xyz, or a similar planet) or require something that can collect one or more of a variety of submitted feeds and then display them or allow a feed(s) of them. I've seen something like this before with http://connectedcourses.net/ in the education space using RSS, but it took some time to not only set it up but to get people's sites to work with it. (It was manual and it definitely hurt as I recall.)

      I don't think of it as a challenge, but I often submit to the IndieWeb sub on indieweb.xyz and I'm also subscribed to its output as well. In this case it works as an example since this is one of its primary functions. It's not framed as a challenge, though it certainly could be. Here one could suggest that participants tag their posts with a particular hashtag for tracking, but in IndieWeb space they'd be "tagging" their posts with the planet's particular post URL and either manually or automatically pinging the Webmention endpoint.

      Another option that could help implement some fun in the system is to salmention all the prior submissions on each submission as an update mechanism, but one would need to have a way to unsubscribe to this as it could be(come) a spam vector.

    1. #webmention is just...magic. Instead of getting comments on twitter, substack, your blog, etc etc. It just all comes to one place? I'm actually surprised @SubstackInc doesn't have support already: anytime someone blogs or substacks about your newsletter, you get a mention?

      #webmention is just...magic. Instead of getting comments on twitter, substack, your blog, etc etc. It just all comes to one place? I'm actually surprised @SubstackInc doesn't have support already: anytime someone blogs or substacks about your newsletter, you get a mention? 👌👌

      — person72443 (@person72443) May 9, 2022
      <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

      The linguist in me notes that the tweet above from @person72443 is the first time I've seen someone verbify Substack as "substacks"

  7. Apr 2022
    1. Tools like Hypothes.is are designed as silos to ensure that its social features work.

      As open source as Hypothes.is is, I do wish that it had some additional open IndieWeb building blocks to keep it from being a silo.

      Sadly, I've never had the time, nor the technical expertise and facility with their code to implement the pieces, but I have outlined a bit of what might be done to make the platform a bit less silo-like: https://boffosocko.com/2019/04/08/ideas-for-indieweb-ifying-hypothes-is/

      Fortunately it is open enough for me in other respects that I can bend portions of it to my will and needs beyond what it offers a la carte.

  8. Mar 2022
  9. Feb 2022
  10. Jan 2022
  11. Dec 2021
  12. Nov 2021
  13. Sep 2021
  14. Aug 2021
  15. Jul 2021
    1. So that’s webmentions! If you need more of a deep dive than this, then I recommend starting with this article.

      I always wish they'd be able to proxy the webmentions for this piece back to my site....

  16. Jun 2021
    1. Tell me on Twitter @bionicjulia and have your tweet show up below!

      Or alternately write about it on your own site and send a webmention. :)

    2. It wasn't as straightforward as I thought it would be, so I've written this blog post for anyone who's trying to do the same with their NextJS blog.

      I recall Monica Powell writing a bit about this with some video a while back.

      Perhaps not as useful after-the-fact, but her post is hiding on in the see also section of https://indieweb.org/Webmention where I've archived a copy of your article as well. Maybe the IndieWeb wiki needs a NextJS page to make this a bit more findable?

      Perhaps the similarities and differences in your approaches will help others in the future.

    1. Reflecting on how new digital tools have re-invigorated annotation and contributed to the creation of their recent book, they suggest annotation presents a vital means by which academics can re-engage with each other and the wider world.

      I've been seeing some of this in the digital gardening space online. People are actively hosting their annotations, thoughts, and ideas, almost as personal wikis.

      Some are using RSS and other feeds as well as Webmention notifications so that these notebooks can communicate with each other in a realization of Vanmevar Bush's dream.

      Networked academic samizdat anyone?

  17. May 2021
    1. Whether or not digital gardens should follow any standards is an interesting question.

      What features/functionality should a digital garden have? Is there a canonical list yet?

      I wish more supported Webmention to enable the Memex dream...

    1. Keeping your garden on the open web also sets you up to take part in the future of gardening. At the moment our gardens are rather solo affairs. We haven't figure out how to make them multi-player. But there's an enthusiastic community of developers and designers trying to fix that. It's hard to say what kind of libraries, frameworks, and design patterns might emerge out of that effort, but it certainly isn't going to happen behind a Medium paywall.

      There are a few of us using Webmention for this. Similarly there are some running open wikis or experiments like Flancian's agora.

    1. go-jamming is a cool looking Webmention sender and receiver, particularly for SSGs. It can be used to service multiple websites as well.

      Requires a bit of configuration and build into one's templates, but it looks pretty well documented.

  18. Apr 2021
    1. We’ve been working on a sort of SPLOT-type thing which is essentially slimmed-down backend for sites whose sole purpose is completing a writing assignment(s) for a single class. I like the TRU SPLOT approach and we’re going to use that in some use cases, but we wanted something that functions kinda like a SPLOT but begins to introduce students & fac to the real WP backend. We’re viewing it as a beginning on-ramp to later those students feel comfortable with their own WP blog with simplified options. Then onto more WP options and then maybe to full DoOO someday.

      While reading this, I'm thinking that I ought to build a SPLOT version of commentpara.de that allows a WordPress based anonymous commenting functionality for sending Webmentions.

    1. I love the idea of Webmention becoming part of core.

      One of the benefits I've seen with it is that to comment on my site, you need to post it on your own site first to send me the notification. People are much less likely to publicly spam me when they have to host the spam for themselves and associate it with their identity directly. (I'll admit that this doesn't get rid of all spam, but it does help to significantly cut back on it. To date, I don't believe there's been any Webmention spam seen in the wild.) If anything I've actually seen more civil and substantive conversations from those using Webmention. It'd be interesting to see WP Tavern support it.

      Reframing the design, UI, prevention of abuse, and set up of how comments are done on the web is certainly a laudable goal and one which could use some rebuilding from the ground up.

      (syndicated to https://wptavern.com/yes-comments-are-still-relevant-but-we-need-a-better-system?unapproved=373040&moderation-hash=b55adb70109112d26a7bff2e87c00aa9#comment-373040)

  19. Mar 2021
    1. crazypython 3 hours ago [–] How do I insert a comments section with Webmention? What HTML do I add? Preferably via dynamic JS so it's self-updating.

      Maybe this is the sort of thing you're looking for? https://github.com/PlaidWeb/webmention.js/

    2. SquareWheel 4 hours ago [–] I agree, but I think it's also worth learning from past experiences. Pingbacks do create a significant spam problem. How does Webmention.io cope with that?

      Based on experience with Pingbacks, the Webmention specification requires the sending site to have a mentioning URL on a publicly available web page. This requirement by itself cuts down significantly on spam as it increases the cost of sending it. (Pingbacks/Trackbacks didn't have this requirement so it was easy to programmatically spew spam in all directions.) In addition to this, there's no requirement to show the received Webmention, so there's less benefit to some spammers in these cases.

      Many people who do receive and display them have separate mechanisms to moderate them before display, which also tends to minimize spam. Other sites that support Webmentions also dovetail with anti-spam services like Akismet which can help filter out spam out as well.

      And this is all without anyone adding the Vouch extension to the Webmention spec.

      Keep in mind that webmention.io is just a third party service to allow sites to use and leverage Webmention notifications without needing to write any code. Many major CMSes like WordPress, Drupal, Craft, WithKnown, et al. either support the spec out of the box or with plugins/modules. Each of these can also leverage anti-spam methods they have available separately. As an example of this, the WordPress plugin has an allow list for automatically approving webmentions from sites one regularly communicates with.

      The idea of Webmentions has been around for almost a decade, and the spec has been a W3C recommendation since 2017. Only one suspected case of Webmention spam has been reported in the wild in that time. I'd conservatively estimate that with 10,000+ independent websites sending/receiving over 2 million Webmentions in the past several years, it's not a bad start. For more details, ideas, and brainstorming for your potential use-cases see also: https://indieweb.org/spam

  20. Feb 2021
    1. It would create a more layered and nuanced form of hypertext – something we're exploring in the Digital Gardening movement. We could build accumulative, conversational exchanges with people on the level of the word, sentence, and paragraph, not the entire document. Authors could fix typos, write revisions, and push version updates that propogate across the web the same way we do with software.

      The Webmention spec allows for updating content and resending notifications. This could be a signal sent to any links to the content that it had been updated and allow any translcuded pages to update if they wished.

    1. Should transclusion work both ways, embedding content and letting the source know that I did so?

      If one is worried about link rot for transclusion, why not just have a blockquote of the original in excerpt form along with a reference link to the original. Then you've got a permanent copy of the original and the link can send a webmention to it as a means of notification?

      If the original quoted page changes, it could potentially send a webmention (technically a salmention in function) to all the pages that had previously mentioned it to create updates.

      Automatic transclusion can also be more problematic in terms of original useful data being used as a vector of spam, graffiti, or other abuses.

      As an example, I can "transclude" a portion of your page onto my own website as a reply context for my comment and syndicate a copy to Hypothes.is. If you've got Webmentions on your site, you'll get a notification.

      For several years now I've been considering why digital gardens/zettelkasten/commonplace books don't implement webmention as a means of creating backlinks between wikis as a means of sites having conversations?

  21. Dec 2020
    1. Newsletters still miss the networked conversations on the topics, which we know from social networks and forums. I expect that all systems will continue to develop well in the near future, which may include an optional conversation layer about the information.

      Frank, a networked newsletter will have the backlinks, but why not do the notifications and display of them using Webmention as a layer on top? Why not let a reader reply to the newsletter via email and then take that content and attach it to the newsletter like a comments section?

      Why not have all the things?

    1. Facebook’s stated mission—to make the world more open and connected—

      If they were truly serious about the connectedness part, they would implement the Webmention spec and microformats, or something just like it, but open and standardized.

  22. Oct 2020
    1. (This is a much better question for @sphygmus, who seems to have a dope Webmention setup for her TiddlyWiki.)

      Webmention in general is certainly dope.

      In looking at her set up, it looks like she's used her site to sign into Aaron Parecki's https://webmention.io/ service which gives the site two link elements to put into the <header> of the site. Webmention.io then does all the plumbing for the site and allows you to log into a dashboard to see your notifications. Signing in only requires adding rel-me links from your site to at least one service (Twitter and GitHub are common) that links back and can do the oAuth dance on your behalf.

      I've know this was possible for sites that didn't have plugins or custom code yet, but hadn't done it until I added it to my own MediaWiki site last night.

      If I recall, there's also a way to use some scripting to export the data from webmention.io to display it on your own website, but I haven't gotten that far yet.

      I suspect this is what @sphygmus is doing, though she can confirm.

    1. When you can assume that all the materials you’re using in and with your class are open educational resources, here’s one way to remix the effective practices listed above with OER in order to provide you and your students with opportunities to spend your time and effort on work that makes the world a better place instead of wasting it on disposable assignments.

      As I think of remix, reuse, redistribute and things like git and version control, I also can't help but think that being able to send and receive webmentions in the process of reusing and redistribution with referential links back to the originals will allow the original creator to at least be aware of the changes and their existence to potentially manually add them to the original project. (Manually because they may not (yet) know how to keep their content under source control or allow others to do so and send pull requests.)

    1. And through this mechanism, I get to share a forward-linking “related articles” feature on my older posts, at no extra effort.

      This is a feature I haven't seen much of using Webmention, but it's a useful one that comes pretty cheaply.

    1. With the new take, we’re also trying to bring more of a classic SvN style back to the site. Not just big, marque pieces, but lots of smaller observations, quotes, links, and other posts as well.

      I wonder if they might also support Webmentions for commenting along with possibly maintaining their own microblog as they move away from Twitter too.

    1. Clicking through to the photo, there is no mention of this image appearing on this important announcement. Perhaps the author privately contact the photographer about using his image. Since Ken Doctor is so incredible with his media experience (i’m being serious), I’m fairly certain someone from his team would have contacted the photographer to give him a heads up.

      I'm sure I've said it before, but I maintain that if the source of the article and the target both supported the Webmention spec, then when a piece used an image (or really any other type of media, including text) with a link, then the original source (any website, or Flickr in this case) would get a notification and could show—if they chose—the use of that media so that others in the future could see how popular (or not) these types of media are.

      Has anyone in the IndieWeb community got examples of this type of attribution showing on media on their own websites? Perhaps Jeremy Keith or Kevin Marks who are photographers and long time Flickr users?

      Incidentally I've also mentioned using this notification method in the past as a means of decentralizing the journal publishing industry as part of a peer-review, citation, and preprint server set up. It also could be used as part of a citation workflow in the sense of Maria Popova and Tina Roth Eisenberg's Curator's Code<sup>[1]</sup>set up, which could also benefit greatly now with Webmention support.

    1. I can't help wondering if this might be modified to be used to pull in Webmentions from around the web using WordPress's Webmention plugin instead of relying on Telegraph.

      It sounds sort of like something I had discussed with David Shanske a while back to bookmark related mentions, but which didn't necessarily have my URL on them.

    1. What I dwell on the most regarding syndication is the Twitter stuff. I look back at the analytics on this site at the end of every year and look at where the traffic came from — every year, Twitter is a teeny-weeny itty-bitty slice of the pie. Measuring traffic alone, that’s nowhere near the amount of effort we put into making the stuff we’re tweeting there. I always rationalize it to myself in other ways. I feel like Twitter is one of the major ways I stay updated with the industry and it’s a major source of ideas for articles.

      So it sounds like Twitter isn't driving traffic to his website, but it is providing ideas and news. Given this I would syndicate content to Twitter as easily and quickly as possible, use webmentions to deal with the interactions and then just use the Twitter timeline for reading and consuming and nothing else.

    1. If you want to respond, do so on your own website and tell me.

      Often it's the mechanism by which the tell me is the most difficult. Fortunately Webmentions make this a bit easier, particularly if they're moderated so the original author can control what's on their website.

    1. Comments are enabled via Hypothes.is

      This may be the first time I've seen someone explicitly use Hypothes.is as the comment system on their personal website.

      I wonder if Matthew actively monitors commentary on his site, and, if so, how he's accomplishing it?

      The method I've used in the past as a quick and dirty method is Jon Udell's facet tool https://jonudell.info/h/facet/?wildcard_uri=https%3A%2F%2Fmatthewlincoln.net%2F*&max=100, though it only indicates just a few comments so far.

      Use cases like this are another good reason why Hypothes.is ought to support the Webmention spec.

    1. I think it is one of those topics with a lot of conjecture John. Apologies if there are too many links.

      Don't apologize for links. It's the web and links are important. In fact I might think that you could have a few additional links here! I would have seen it anyway, but I was a tad sad not to have seen a link to that massive pullquote/photo you made at the top of the post which would have sent me a webmention to boot. (Of course WordPress doesn't make it easy on this front either, so your best bet would have been an invisible <link> hidden in the text maybe?)

      I've been in the habit of person-tagging people in posts to actively send them webmentions, but I also have worried about the extra "visual clutter" and cognitive load of the traditional presentation of links as mentioned by John. As a result, I'm now considering adding some CSS to my site so that these webmention links simply look like regular text. This way the notifications will be triggered, but without adding the seeming "cruft" visually or cognitively. Win-win? Thanks for the inspiration!

      In your case here, you've kindly added enough context about what to expect about the included links that the reader can decide for themselves while still making your point. You should sleep easily on this point and continue linking to your heart's content.

    1. One way to meet the many needs that most if not all publishers share would be to collaboratively develop their digital products. Specifically, they should build for interoperability. One publisher’s CMS, another’s content APIs, a third company’s data offering — they might one day all work together to allow all ships to rise and to reclaim advertising and subscription revenue from the platforms. This might allow publishers to refocus on differentiating where it truly matters for the user: in the quality of their content.

      Some of this is already a-foot within the IndieWeb community with new protocols like Webmention, Micropub, WebSub, and Microsub.

    1. What am I missing about annotations for the web?

      They're not as wide spread certainly, but several people within the IndieWeb have been experimenting with annotations, and Webmention in conjunction with text fragments called fragmentions. In particular, Kartik Prabhu probably has one of the best examples and his site is able to take webmentions to fragments and show them in the margins in his site (much like Medium does).

    1. webmentions

      I'd recommend defining webmentions along with a link to the spec and W3C recommendation just after linkbacks/pingbacks as their more modern successor.

      As some of your potential audience isn't webmention aware, you could/should add some additional definition for those who are unlikely to click through to see the real value they represent.

    2. but on specific areas of it.

      Mention examples of this like Medium and/or Kartik's example using webmention.

    1. I like the idea of webmentions because they let me take complete ownership over my data. I do not need to put my faith into a comments system. There is no way that my comments can be edited other than by me. If I want to delete a webmention, I can, at any time, for any reason. While some of these features may be offered by websites, there’s never any guarantee that they will always offer the ability to modify the data I submit.
    1. Some content “jumped” platforms: eleven posts written for my blog were eventually cross-posted to new and traditional media platforms. It is impossible to track the ways posts became remixed and diffused through sites like Tumblr and Reddit, which are designed specifically for those purposes. But linkbacks from those posts and a general search reveals that it has happened often.

      Here's an interesting research space in which having Webmention for the linkbacks would have been useful.

    1. “Social” media: This is social interaction that isn’t really social. While Facebook and others frequently claim to offer connection, and do offer the appearance of it, the fact is a lot of social media is a simulation of real connection.

      Perhaps this is one of the things I like most about the older blogosphere and it's more recent renaissance with the IndieWeb idea of Webmentions, a W3C recommendation spec for online interactions? While many of the interactions I get are small nods in the vein of likes, favorites, or reposts, some of them are longer, more visceral interactions.

      My favorite just this past week was a piece that I'd worked on for a few days that elicited a short burst of excitement from someone who just a few minutes later wrote a reply that was almost as long as my piece itself.

      To me this was completely worth the effort and the work, not because of the many other smaller interactions, but because of the human interaction that resulted. Not to mention that I'm still thinking out a reply still several days later.

      This sort of human social interaction also seems to be at the heart of what Manton Reece is doing with micro.blog. By leaving out things like reposts and traditional "likes", he's really creating a human connection network to fix what traditional corporate social media silos have done to us. This past week's episode of Micro Monday underlines this for us.

    1. If anyone is aware of people or groups working on the potential integration of the IndieWeb movement (webmentions) and web annotation/highlighting, please include them in the comments below–I’d really appreciate it.

      The IndieWebCamp.com site lists a small handful of people with Hypothes.is affiliations who had websites, but none of the seem to be active any longer. Perhaps we can track some of them down via twitter?

    1. But how do we make it happen?

      Larry, I caught your Twitter conversation with Aaron Parecki earlier about IndieWeb. I've added a lot of the open specs he referenced to my own WordPress website with a handful of plugins and would be happy to help you do the same if you like.

      If nothing else, it'll give you some direct experience with how the decentralized nature of how these things work. I'm posting my reply to you own my own site and manually syndicating the reply (since you don't yet support webmention, one of the protocols) which will give at least some idea of how it all works.

      If you're curious about how you could apply it to your own WordPress site, I've collected some research, articles and experiments specific to my experience here: https://boffosocko.com/research/indieweb/

    2. We can look at a later iteration of Everipedia itself as an example. Right now, there is one centralized encyclopedia: Wikipedia. With the Everipedia Network, there will be a protocol that will enable people from all over the web to participate in a much broader project.

      As I look at this, I can't help think about my desire to want to be able to link to a wiki in a post and have a Webmention added to that post's "See Also" or reference section. With the link automatically added to the wiki's page like this, future readers and editors could have access to my original and could potentially synopsize and include details from my post into the wiki's article.

    1. Is there a particular project you want to pursue?

      Though I joined late, the course has spurred me to think about the concepts of mixing blogchains with webmentions, and resparked my interest in getting wikis to accept webmentions as well for building and cross-linking information.

    1. But imagine a world where you write an article named Subsidies and Local Government in WordPress, and that pings a notifier that indexes that page. And immediately you are notified of all pages named this, and presented with a list of pages those pages link to.

      A great argument to add webmentions to wiki software!

    1. the upshot is that this relatively new web standard allows for round-tripped connections among discrete domains, enabling the conversation about an individual post to be represented on that post, wherever it might actually take place.
    1. Secondly, it implies that the connection between the nodes is important. Every blog and every post can live as both node and as connection. What does that mean? It means you can write a post that is directed within the network. If you want to get on the radar of a blogger - write about their ideas and reference them. The lowly hyperlink is a connective tissue that creates a network graph between the nodes.

      One of the most valuable things I've discovered about Webmention is that it creates bi-directional links on the network. Sometimes these links are minor and just give me the location I initially saw something, but other times, they're far more substantial.

    1. receiving webmentions for syndicated copies

      I've done a poor man's version of this on websites that don't send webmentions, but which will let me put the permalink of my original from my site on them (either in a website field, or into the text of the comment and which don't filter out the HTML).

      In particular, I've done it on WordPress.com sites and put my reply from my site into their standard comment field and indicated to notify me by email of future comments.

      Then when I get the email notification, I can force a manual webmention of the reply and get something back to my website. In practice, it also requires a bit of massaging, but is better than nothing.

      I've documented the process here: https://boffosocko.com/2020/01/30/manual-backfeed-in-the-blogosphere/

    1. Soon after I finally took the leap and signed up for a mico.blog to explore that platform.

      Be sure to check out how you can post your content to your own website and syndicate your material into micro.blog (maybe via RSS or using plugins). If your site uses the Webmention and Semantic Linkbacks plugins, then any replies to your posts will be automagically ported directly back to the comment section of your post.

    2. Chris Aldrich

      By linking my site here, Jim has sent a Webmention: https://telegraph.p3k.io/webmention/14qD8olgI7lyGjRy0q/details

    1. Sure we have hyperlinks, and even some esoteric magic with the likes of webmentions. But I want big, simple, legible ways to link blog discussions together. I want: blogging megastructures!

      In practice, building massive infrastructure is not only very difficult, but incredibly hard to maintain (and also thus generally expensive). Who exactly is going to maintain such structures?

      I would argue that Webmentions aren't esoteric, particularly since they're a W3C recommendation with several dozens of server implementations including support for WordPress, Drupal, and half a dozen other CMSes.

      Even if your particular website doesn't support them yet, you can create an account on webmention.io to receive/save notifications as well as to send them manually.

    2. Chain: perhaps the simplest collaborative blogging form; a straightforward back and forth exchange of posts exploring a particular topicMesh: like a chain, but with multiple participants; still a legible structure e.g. alternating / round-robin style, but with more possibilities for multiplicity of perspectives and connections across postsFractal: multiple participants and multi-threaded conversation; more infinite game branching; a possibly ever-evolving and mutating conversation, so could probably use some kind of defined endpoint, maybe time-bound

      In the time I've been using Webmentions, I've seen all of these sorts of structures using them. Of particular interest, I've seen some interesting experiments with Fragmentions that allow one to highlight and respond to even the smallest fragments of someone's website.

    1. The page was set up to show any post that contained a link to it - in other words, if you linked to that page, then your post appeared on that page.

      An early implementation of Webmention?!

    1. I’m really not sure if linking, in general, has changed over the years. I’ve been doing it the same since day one. But that’s just me.

      Only in the last hour I've had a thought about a subtle change to one of the ways I link. It's not a drastic thing, but it is a subtle change to common practices. Also as I think about it, it removes some of the obviousness of links on social platforms like Twitter that add the ugly @ to a username in addition to other visual changes when one mentions someone else.

    1. The page counter is an invisible 1x1 pixel image that allows us and our authors to know when and where our content is republished.

      I see this and can't help but think about a tracking pixel that sends webmentions...

    1. being able to follow links to “follow a conversation” that is threaded on Twitter.

      This is one of my favorite parts about my website and others supporting Webmention: the conversation is aggregated onto or more closely adjacent to the source. This helps prevent context collapse.

      Has anyone made a browser tool for encouraging lateral reading? I'd love a bookmarklet that I could click to provide some highly relevant lateral reading resources for any particular page I'm on.

    1. The ideas here make me think that being able to publish on one's own site (and potentially syndicate) and send/receive webmentions may be a very useful tool within open science. We should move toward a model of academic samizdat where researchers can publish their own work for themselves and others. Doing this will give them the credit (and job prospects, etc.) while still allowing movement forward.

  23. Jul 2020
    1. web mentions

      a mentioning of the #webmention s right here folks

  24. May 2019
    1. Hypothesis doesn’t have a good concept of a site owner so there’s no way to get alerts for new annotations on my posts.

      That's a very good observation.

      Once upon a time I implemented a Hypothesis branch that honored Webmention links for a "pingback" when anyone annotated your site. Sadly, I never got it in a shape to ship.

      It looks like Webmention has since become a standard.