- Oct 2013
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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Monarchy, as the word implies, is the constitution in which one man has authority over all.
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The forms of government are four -- democracy, oligarchy, aristocracy, monarchy. The supreme right to judge and decide always rests, therefore, with either a part or the whole of one or other of these governing powers.
Four forms of government. Judgement lies with government.
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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It is clear, then, that rhetorical study, in its strict sense, is concerned with the modes of persuasion.
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everything else is merely accessory
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Rhetoric is the counterpart of Dialectic.
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No other of the arts draws opposite conclusions: dialectic and rhetoric alone do this. Both these arts draw opposite conclusions impartially.
The reason why rhetoric is the counterpart of dialectic.
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irrelevant speaking is forbidden in the law-courts
Rhetoric always has to be accurate to the point.
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The modes of persuasion are the only true constituents of the art: everything else is merely accessory. These writers, however, say nothing about enthymemes, which are the substance of rhetorical persuasion, but deal mainly with non-essentials.
Persuasion and enthymemes are essential for rhetoric.
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Rhetoric is useful (1) because things that are true and things that are just have a natural tendency to prevail over their opposites, so that if the decisions of judges are not what they ought to be, the defeat must be due to the speakers themselves, and they must be blamed accordingly.
That completely absolves judges and juries of making bad decisions charges rhetoricians with fault when maybe they did their best and the hearers were not receptive to their argument even if it was at no fault of their own. The law is not black and white, that is why there are judges to "judge."
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What makes a man a "sophist" is not his faculty, but his moral purpose. In rhetoric, however, the term "rhetorician" may describe either the speaker's knowledge of the art, or his moral purpose. In dialectic it is different: a man is a "sophist" because he has a certain kind of moral purpose, a "dialectician" in respect, not of his moral purpose, but of his faculty.
!!!! I like this explanation of distinguishing between the three. Very interesting.
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No other of the arts draws opposite conclusions: dialectic and rhetoric alone do this. Both these arts draw opposite conclusions impartially
dialectic vs rhetoric. dialectic AND rhetoric? When are they same and when are they not?
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For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct. Here, then, we must use, as our modes of persuasion and argument, notions possessed by everybody, as we observed in the Topics when dealing with the way to handle a popular audience.
Appealing to core beliefs, irrespective of the amount of knowledge, to be successful? Meaning... there is a base of knowledge and/or beliefs the the "instructor" must appeal to?
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In a political debate the man who is forming a judgement is making a decision about his own vital interests. There is no need, therefore, to prove anything except that the facts are what the supporter of a measure maintains they are. In forensic oratory this is not enough; to conciliate the listener is what pays here. It is other people's affairs that are to be decided, so that the judges, intent on their own satisfaction and listening with partiality, surrender themselves to the disputants instead of judging between them.
Multiple actors in different contexts of judgment.
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They will often have allowed themselves to be so much influenced by feelings of friendship or hatred or self-interest that they lose any clear vision of the truth and have their judgement obscured by considerations of personal pleasure or pain
Context and circumstance cloud judgment, rhetoric, and rules.
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he modes of persuasion are the only true constituents of the art: everything else is merely accessory
Persuasion the root of all "Art"
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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Speeches that rely on examples are as persuasive as the other kind, but those which rely on enthymemes excite the louder applause.
Enthymemes are better than examples.
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Every one who effects persuasion through proof does in fact use either enthymemes or examples: there is no other way.
Enthymemes and examples are elements for proof.
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There are, then, these three means of effecting persuasion. The man who is to be in command of them must, it is clear, be able (1) to reason logically, (2) to understand human character and goodness in their various forms, and (3) to understand the emotions-that is, to name them and describe them, to know their causes and the way in which they are excited.
Three means of persuasion: logos, pathos, and ethos.
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Of the modes of persuasion furnished by the spoken word there are three kinds. The first kind depends on the personal character of the speaker; the second on putting the audience into a certain frame of mind; the third on the proof, or apparent proof, provided by the words of the speech itself.
Three kinds of the modes of persuasion.
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The general Lines of Argument have no special subject-matter, and therefore will not increase our understanding of any particular class of things. On the other hand, the better the selection one makes of propositions suitable for special Lines of Argument, the nearer one comes, unconsciously, to setting up a science that is distinct from dialectic and rhetoric. One may succeed in stating the required principles, but one's science will be no longer dialectic or rhetoric, but the science to which the principles thus discovered belong.
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Missing this distinction, people fail to notice that the more correctly they handle their particular subject the further they are getting away from pure rhetoric or dialectic.
Rhetoricians specialize in rhetoric, not what they use rhetoric to talk about.
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Rhetoric may be defined as the faculty of observing in any given case the available means of persuasion. This is not a function of any other art. Every other art can instruct or persuade about its own particular subject-matter; for instance, medicine about what is healthy and unhealthy, geometry about the properties of magnitudes, arithmetic about numbers, and the same is true of the other arts and sciences. But rhetoric we look upon as the power of observing the means of persuasion on almost any subject presented to us; and that is why we say that, in its technical character, it is not concerned with any special or definite class of subjects.
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I mean that the proper subjects of dialectical and rhetorical syllogisms are the things with which we say the regular or universal Lines of Argument are concerned, that is to say those lines of argument that apply equally to questions of right conduct, natural science, politics, and many other things that have nothing to do with one another.
there are constant appeals and lines of argument, but they depend on the context?
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There are, then, these three means of effecting persuasion. The man who is to be in command of them must, it is clear, be able (1) to reason logically, (2) to understand human character and goodness in their various forms, and (3) to understand the emotions-that is, to name them and describe them, to know their causes and the way in which they are excited
qualities needed to effectively persuade.
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Our judgements when we are pleased and friendly are not the same as when we are pained and hostile.
context
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Of the modes of persuasion furnished by the spoken word there are three kinds. The first kind depends on the personal character of the speaker; the second on putting the audience into a certain frame of mind; the third on the proof, or apparent proof, provided by the words of the speech itsel
the format of persuasion, dependent on audience. The persuader is unsuccessful if he cannot shape the audience.
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caseyboyle.net caseyboyle.netAntidosis23
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because there has been implanted in us the power to persuade each other and to make clear to each other whatever we desire, not only have we escaped the life of wild beasts, but we have come together and founded cities and made laws and invented arts; and, generally speaking, there is no institution devised by man which the power of speech has not helped us to establish
Rhetoric builds civilizations
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they do not believe that our minds, which are naturally superior to our bodies, can be made more serviceable through education and suitable training; again, they observe that some people possess the art of training horses and dogs and most other animals by which they make them more spirited, gentle or intelligent, as the case may be, yet they do not think that any education has been discovered for training human nature, such as can improve men in any of those respects in which we improve the beasts.
Sophist critics don't seem to believe that the mind can be trained...so rhetoricians are scam artists
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master the knowledge of their particular subject, whatever it may be in each case; and, finally, they must become versed and practised in the use and application of their art; for only on these conditions can they become fully competent and pre-eminent in any line of endeavor.
Again: There is no universal formula for successful rhetoric
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contrary to justice
Rhetoric interferes with the natural order of things
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I maintain also that if you compare me with those who profess54 to turn men to a life of temperance and justice, you will find that my teaching is more true and more profitable than theirs. For they exhort their followers to a kind of virtue and wisdom which is ignored by the rest of the world and is disputed among themselves; I, to a kind which is recognized by all. They, again, are satisfied if through the prestige of their names they can draw a number of pupils into their society; I, you will find, have never invited any person to follow me, but endeavor to persuade the whole state to pursue a policy from which the Athenians will become prosperous themselves, and at the same time deliver the rest of the Hellenes from their present ills
Aha! Convincing people to see that he teaches not for money, or for prestigious but to better the country Athens.
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For these reasons, men who make it their duty to invent discourses of that kind should be held in higher esteem than those who propose and write down laws, inasmuch as they are rarer, have the more difficult task, and must have superior qualities of mind. Especially is this true in our day; for, at the time when the human race was beginning to come into existence and to settle together in cities,53 it was natural that their searching should have been for much the same thing; but today, on the other hand, when we have advanced to the point where the discourses which have been spoken and the laws which have been laid down are innumerable, and where we single out the oldest among laws and the newest among discourses for our praise, these tasks no longer call for the same understanding; nay, those who have elected to make laws have had at their service a multitude of laws already made
I agree to the to the statement that men who invent discourse should be held in higher esteem, general those who create anything are always praised. Creating discourse may it be laws, or the court room, it has always been a way to resolve any and every problem with mankind till violence breaks out.
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Now in the introduction and in the opening words of that discourse I reproach monarchs because they who more than others ought to cultivate their understanding are less educated than men in private station. After discussing this point, I enjoin upon Nicocles not to be easy-going and not to feel that he had taken up the royal office as one takes up the office of a priest, but to put aside his selfish pleasures and give his mind to his affairs. And I try to persuade him also that it ought to be revolting to his mind to see the base ruling over the good and the foolish giving orders to the wise, saying to him that the more vigorously he condemns folly in other men, the more should he cultivate his own understanding
It seems Isocrates is proving that he is actually not a bad man who take money, or takes wealth from royalty. However he is a man who is good, that teaches royalty how to take care of problems. Isocrates is trying to prove that all his ways of discourse was used to bring justices or in a good morality.
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As to the hegemony, then, it is easy enough for you to make up your minds from what has been read to you that it should by right belong to Athens. But, I beg of you, consider well whether I appear to you to corrupt the young by my words, or, on the contrary, to inspire them to a life of valor and of dangers endured for their country; whether I should justly be punished for the words which have been read, or whether, on the contrary, I deserve to have your deepest gratitude for having so glorified Athens and our ancestors and the wars which were fought in those days that the orators who had composed discourses on this theme have destroyed them all, being ashamed of their own efforts, while they who today are reputed to be clever dare no longer to speak upon this subject, but confess the feebleness of their own powers
This is a convincing way to make the reader view iscorates differently in a good way.
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anyone is under the impression that people who rob others or falsify accounts or do any evil thing get the advantage, he is wrong in his thinking; for none are at a greater disadvantage throughout their lives than such men; none are found in more difficult straits, none live in greater ignominy; and, in a word, none are more miserable than they.
This is a really good point. They are all at a very low point doing what they have to do (even though it is wrong) to survive.
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Now you will appreciate even more clearly from the things which I am going to say that I am far from being a corrupter of our youth.
Declaration of his innocence.
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if it be true that cleverness in speech results in plotting against other people's property
Sounds like using speech to manipulate people.
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I suppose that you are not unaware of the fact that the government of the state is handed on by the older men to the youth of the coming generation
I disagree. I feel like the politicians make decisions about what is best for them here and now rather than future generations.
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You must bear these things in mind, and not pass judgement in any trial without the exercise of reason, nor be as careless when you sit in judgement as you are in your private occupations, but must examine thoroughly each point and search for the truth, mindful of your oaths and of the laws under which you have come together to dispense justice
This sounds like instructions they would give a jury on their way to deliberate a case.
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Indeed he has often been advised by me, among others, that while men who are in public life and desire to be in favor must adopt the principle of doing what is most serviceable and noble and of saying what is most true and just, yet they must at the same time not neglect to study and consider well how in everything they say and do they may convince the people of their graciousness and human sympathy
This sounds like many politicians today. We are facing a government shutdown in 3 hours and both sides are at a standstill. No one is willing to work together to find a solution they both stand on the sides saying 'my way or the highway'
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These are great things and compel our admiration; but the facts which I now give entitle him to even greater praise. For although he saw that you respected only the kind of generals who threatened and tried to terrify the other cities and were always for setting up some revolution or other among your allies
Many people respect the military nowadays. We are in a war that most people do not realize is happening. We have had men and women fighting overseas in the middle-east for over 10 years. It has become a part of life; there are good and bad parts to this. People at home recognize and respect the sacrifices of soldiers when they are coming home or are in uniform, but I feel like they forget about them when they are not in sight. People are getting killed over there and we are not getting upset about it which shows how little people know or care about what is happening.
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For if I have had the affection of men who have received rewards in recognition of excellence, but have nothing in common with the sycophant, then how, in all reason, could you judge me to be a corrupter of youth?
I really like this statement and agree with it.
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Among the first to begin studying with me were Eunomus, Lysitheides, and Callippus; and following them were Onetor, Anticles, Philonides, Philomelus, and Charmantides.56 All these men were crowned by Athens with chaplets of gold,57 not because they were covetous of other people's possessions, but because they were honorable men and had spent large sums of their private fortunes upon the city.
So he educated some of the greatest citizens in the city and he is still be prosecuted? I think that the caliber of his students should say something to his character and teaching ability.
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teaching the kind of eloquence which enables people to gain their own advantage contrary to justice
He is giving people the opportunity to speak for themselves. When they can speak and present themselves eloquently, there is a higher likelihood that people will sit back and listen to them.
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Well, then, whom ought you to believe? Those who know intimately both my words and my character, or a sycophant who knows nothing about me at all, but has chosen to make me his victim?
There are people who can testify that he was not corrupting them, he was teaching them. Why isn't anyone believing him?
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I have had so many pupils, and they have studied with me in some cases three, and in some cases four years, yet not one of them will be found to have uttered a word of complaint about his sojourn with me
They all learned and never complained. Who is complaining that he is corrupting the youth?
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And yet, when anyone devotes his life to urging all his fellow-countrymen to be nobler and juster leaders of the Hellenes, how is it conceivable that such a man should corrupt his followers? What man possessed of the power to discover discourses of this character would try to search for those that are pernicious and have to do with pernicious things, especially a man who has reaped from his works the rewards which I have had?
An argument as to why he has not been corrupting the youth. He gets satisfaction from teaching, why would he try to ruin that?
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They, again, are satisfied if through the prestige of their names they can draw a number of pupils into their society; I, you will find, have never invited any person to follow me,
This is interesting. I know people like this, they believe that their voices should be louder because they are more intelligent
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That is why I stated that, while both are entitled to your praise, they are the more entitled to it who are able to execute the harder task.
If two people do the same thing and it is decided that one of them worked harder then that person deserves more respect?
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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(1) laws, (2) witnesses, (3) contracts (4) tortures, (5) oaths.
non-technical
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Definition of pleasure, and analysis of things pleasant. -- The motives for wrongdoing, viz. advantage and pleasure, have thus been discussed in chapters 6, 7, 11.
pleasure
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Definition and analysis of things "good."
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(1) the speaker's power of evincing a personal character which will make his speech credible (ethos ); (2) his power of stirring the emotions of his hearers (pathos ); (3) his power of proving a truth, or an apparent truth, by means of persuasive arguments (logos )
this is why it cannot be treated systematically
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It is a subject that can be treated systematically.
i disagree
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it has three divisions -- (1) the speaker's power of evincing a personal character which will make his speech credible (ethos ); (2) his power of stirring the emotions of his hearers (pathos ); (3) his power of proving a truth, or an apparent truth, by means of persuasive arguments (logos ).
Three divisions.
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Argumentative persuasion is a sort of demonstration, and the rhetorical form of demonstration is the enthymeme.
Enthymeme is essential for rhetoric.
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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What a man wants to be is better than what a man wants to seem, for in aiming at that he is aiming more at reality. Hence men say that justice is of small value, since it is more desirable to seem just than to be just, whereas with health it is not so. That is better than other things which is more useful than they are for a number of different purposes; for example, that which promotes life, good life, pleasure, and noble conduct. For this reason wealth and health are commonly thought to be of the highest value, as possessing all these advantages.
I think that we still seek health and wealth above all else.
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When a man accomplishes something beyond his natural power, or beyond his years, or beyond the measure of people like him, or in a special way, or at a special place or time, his deed will have a high degree of nobleness, goodness, and justice, or of their opposites.
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Thus, keenness of sight is more desirable than keenness of smell, sight generally being more desirable than smell generally; [1364b] and similarly, unusually great love of friends being more honourable than unusually great love of money, ordinary love of friends is more honourable than ordinary love of money.
I can understand this, friends are better than money.
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Again, where there are two sets of consequences arising from two different beginnings or causes, the consequences of the more important beginning or cause are themselves the more important; and conversely, that beginning or cause is itself the more important which has the more important consequences.
What?!?
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For the superiority of class over class is proportionate to the superiority possessed by their largest specimens.
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caseyboyle.net caseyboyle.net
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must learn the different kinds of discourse and practice himself in their use; and the teacher, for his part, must so expound the principles of the art with the utmost possible exactness as to leave out nothing that can be taught
Universal rhetoric isn't really something that can be taught
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analogy of an art with hard and fast rules to a creative process. For, excepting these teachers, who does not know that the art of using letters remains fixed and unchanged, so that we continually and invariably use the same letters for the same purposes, while exactly the reverse is true of the art of discourse?
Rhetoric as a "creative process"
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More than that, they do not attribute any of this power either to the practical experience or to the native ability of the student, but undertake to transmit the science of discourse as simply as they would teach the letters of the alphabet, not having taken trouble to examine into the nature of each kind of knowledge, but thinking that because of the extravagance of their promises they themselves will command admiration and the teaching of discourse will be held in higher esteem--oblivious of the fact that the arts are made great, not by those who are without scruple in boasting about them, but by those who are able to discover all of the resources which each art affords.
This is the first statement in this piece I can sincerely get behind.
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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For all advice to do things or not to do them is concerned with happiness and with the things that make for or against it; whatever creates or increases happiness or some part of happiness, we ought to do; whatever destroys or hampers happiness, or gives rise to its opposite, we ought not to do.
This reminds me of Socrates in Plato's "Gorgias." Except that he advised people to only partake in things that make them happy because they are good or beneficial and not to partake in things good/beneficial because they make the person happy (or something along those lines).
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All such good things as excite envy are, as a class, the outcome of good luck.
Interesting. I like how here (and above) he explains the specifics of what the words/ideas mean.
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The constituents of wealth are: plenty of coined money and territory; the ownership of numerous, large, and beautiful estates; also the ownership of numerous and beautiful implements, live stock, and slaves. All these kinds of property are our own, are secure, gentlemanly, and useful. The useful kinds are those that are productive, the gentlemanly kinds are those that provide enjoyment. By "productive" I mean those from which we get our income; by "enjoyable," those from which we get nothing worth mentioning except the use of them. The criterion of "security" is the ownership of property in such places and under such Conditions that the use of it is in our power; and it is "our own" if it is in our own power to dispose of it or keep it. By "disposing of it" I mean giving it away or selling it. Wealth as a whole consists in using things rather than in owning them; it is really the activity -- that is, the use -- of property that constitutes wealth.
Locke & property. Wage workers vs. wealth
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From this definition of happiness it follows that its constituent parts are: -- good birth, plenty of friends, good friends, wealth, good children, plenty of children, a happy old age, also such bodily excellences as health, beauty, strength, large stature, athletic powers, together with fame, honour, good luck, and virtue. A man cannot fail to be completely independent if he possesses these internal and these external goods; for besides these there are no others to have. (Goods of the soul and of the body are internal. Good birth, friends, money, and honour are external.) Further, we think that he should possess resources and luck, in order to make his life really secure. As we have already ascertained what happiness in general is, so now let us try to ascertain what of these parts of it is.
The right to pursue life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Could relate to the American dream.
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It may be said that every individual man and all men in common aim at a certain end which determines what they choose and what they avoid. This end, to sum it up briefly, is happiness and its constituents.
Depends on context and individuals.
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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The truth is, as indeed we have said already, that rhetoric is a combination of the science of logic and of the ethical branch of politics; and it is partly like dialectic, partly like sophistical reasoning.
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he political speaker will also find the researches of historians useful. But all this is the business of political science and not of rhetoric.
I'm having trouble discerning between the two. Political Science's focus may not be rhetoric, but it utilizes rhetoric quite a lot.
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It is useful, in framing laws, not only to study the past history of one's own country, in order to understand which constitution is desirable for it now, but also to have a knowledge of the constitutions of other nations, and so to learn for what kinds of nation the various kinds of constitution are suited.
But what about "framing" laws for personal interest over the common good of other nations and one's own?
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understand the subject of legislation; for it is on a country's laws that its whole welfare depends.
If only.
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The main matters on which all men deliberate and on which political speakers make speeches are some five in number: ways and means, war and peace, national defence, imports and exports, and legislation.
Technical, the main focuses of oration and deliberation. How has this perhaps changed with globalization and the information age?
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hat rhetoric is a combination of the science of logic and of the ethical branch of politics; and it is partly like dialectic, partly like sophistical reasoning.
!!!
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Clearly counsel can only be given on matters about which people deliberate; matters, namely, that ultimately depend on ourselves, and which we have it in our power to set going. [1359b] For we turn a thing over in our mind until we have reached the point of seeing whether we can do it or not.
Need to collaborate?
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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Rhetoric falls into three divisions, determined by the three classes of listeners to speeches. For of the three elements in speech-making -- speaker, subject, and person addressed -- it is the last one, the hearer, that determines the speech's end and object. [1358b] The hearer must be either a judge, with a decision to make about things past or future, or an observer. A member of the assembly decides about future events, a juryman about past events: while those who merely decide on the orator's skill are observers. From this it follows that there are three divisions of oratory-(1) political, (2) forensic, and (3) the ceremonial oratory of display.
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but often make it a ground of actual praise that he has neglected his own interest to do what was honourable
emphasizing the collective or another over individual self-interest?
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hose who praise or attack a man aim at proving him worthy of honour or the reverse, and they too treat all other considerations with reference to this one.
Setting a standard?
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he political orator is concerned with the future: it is about things to be done hereafter that he advises, for or against. The party in a case at law is concerned with the past; one man accuses the other, and the other defends himself, with reference to things already done. The ceremonial orator is, properly speaking, concerned with the present, since all men praise or blame in view of the state of things existing at the time, though they often find it useful also to recall the past and to make guesses at the future.
Different purposes within "time", determines different types of interactions in the divisions of oratory. Very interesting use of past, present, and future. I hadn't thought about rhetoric contextually that way before.
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-(1) political, (2) forensic, and (3) the ceremonial oratory of display.
technical.
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For of the three elements in speech-making -- speaker, subject, and person addressed -- it is the last one, the hearer, that determines the speech's end and object
each level holds certain authority, but who has the most impact and power?
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- Sep 2013
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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So we must aim at these three points: Antithesis, Metaphor, and Actuality.
Components of good writing
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words express ideas, and therefore those words are the most agreeable that enable us to get hold of new ideas.
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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The best way to counteract any exaggeration is the well-worn device by which the speaker puts in some criticism of himself
Does this hurt ethos though?
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Your language will be appropriate if it expresses emotion and character, and if it corresponds to its subject. "Correspondence to subject" means that we must neither speak casually about weighty matters, nor solemnly about trivial ones;
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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Describe a thing instead of naming it: do not say "circle," but "that surface which extends equally from the middle every way.
Is this the equivalent to show not tell?
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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A fifth rule is to express plurality, fewness, and unity by the correct wording
5
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A fourth rule is to observe Protagoras' classification of nouns into male, female, and inanimate;
4 are these equally applicable today and to English
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The third is to avoid ambiguities;
3 sounds like #2 similar
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calling things by their own special names and not by vague general ones
2
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First, the proper use of connecting words, and the arrangement of them in the natural sequence
1
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The foundation of good style is correctness of language, which falls under five heads.
Good Style outline
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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Even in Aristotle's day, conciseness and brevity were prized
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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The materials of metaphor must be beautiful to the ear, to the understanding, to the eye or some other physical sense.
effects/faculties of beauty
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Further, the materials of metaphors must be beautiful; and the beauty, like the ugliness, of all words may, as Licymnius says, lie in their sound or in their meaning.
Beauty considered. here he looks at not only what is said, but the effects it has and how it can be artistic, aesthetic
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Metaphor, moreover, gives style clearness, charm, and distinction as nothing else can:
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We can now see that a writer must disguise his art and give the impression of speaking naturally and not artificially.
consider the audience and mask rhetoric, make it seem spontaneous
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Style to be good must be clear, as is proved by the fact that speech which fails to convey a plain meaning will fail to do just what speech has to do. It must also be appropriate, avoiding both meanness and undue elevation; poetical language is certainly free from meanness, but it is not appropriate to prose.
Is this his definition?
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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What about gestures, facial expressions, etc? He gets at this a little by comparing it to acting, but doesn't go far enough
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the way in which a thing is said does affect its intelligibility
It has real effects and should not be belittled or ignored
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Three questions to consider for writing/speaking
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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the ironical man jokes to amuse himself, the buffoon to amuse other people
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The written style is the more finished: the spoken better admits of dramatic delivery
written vs. spoken
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Periodic style. The language of prose must be either (1) free-running, like that of Herodotus; or (2) compact (i.e. periodic
Is this the same concept as journalistic writing? Is this where we get the term periodical
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Antithesis implies contrast of sense
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Appropriateness. An appropriate style will adapt itself to (1) the emotions of the hearers, (2) the character of the speaker, (3) the nature of the subject.
Situational
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Style, to be good, must be clear; it must also be appropriate, avoiding both meanness and excess of dignity
Balanced. It must understand its purpose and fulfill it tastefully
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Style. It is not enough to know what to say; we must also say it in the right way
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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It is now plain that when you wish to calm others you must draw upon these lines of argument
The purpose of this chapter was to inform us of "calmnesses" roots and how we can evoke it in others.
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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Also those who speak ill of us, and show contempt for us, in connexion with the things we ourselves most care about: thus those who are eager to win fame as philosophers get angry with those who show contempt for their philosophy; those who pride themselves upon their appearance get angry with those who show contempt for their appearance and so on in other cases. We feel particularly angry on this account if we suspect that we are in fact, or that people think we are, lacking completely or to any effective extent in the qualities in question.
Anger (emotion) in relation to image/success in philosophy. People only feels anger if what has been said about them is something they are unsure of (insecure). Anger thus may be a cue for someone's insecurities or uncertainties.
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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treat of relative goodness and relative utility.
Relative
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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Again, that is good which has been distinguished by the favour of a discerning or virtuous man or woman, as Odysseus was distinguished by Athena, Helen by Theseus, Paris by the goddesses, and Achilles by Homer. And, generally speaking, all things are good which men deliberately choose to do; this will include the things already mentioned, and also whatever may be bad for their enemies or good for their friends, and at the same time practicable. Things are "practicable" in two senses: (1) it is possible to do them, (2) it is easy to do them.
Good is virtuous, deliberate, practicable.
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We may define a good thing as that which ought to be chosen for its own sake; or as that for the sake of which we choose something else; or as that which is sought after by all things, or by all things that have sensation or reason, or which will be sought after by any things that acquire reason; or as that which must be prescribed for a given individual by reason generally, or is prescribed for him by his individual reason, this being his individual good; or as that whose presence brings anything into a satisfactory and self-sufficing condition; or as self-sufficiency; or as what produces, maintains, or entails characteristics of this kind, while preventing and destroying their opposites.
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and those in which no worthless man can succeed, for such things bring greater praise:
Things of value and worth
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Good also are the things by which we shall gratify our friends or annoy our enemies;
Things that are admirable and coveted.
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Good, too, are things that are a man's very own, possessed by no one else, exceptional; for this increases the credit of having them.
Good through virtue of their scarcity.
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The acquisition of a greater in place of a lesser good, or of a lesser in place of a greater evil, is also good, [1362b] for in proportion as the greater exceeds the lesser there is acquisition of good or removal of evil.
Regarding Goodness and Utility: All things being in proportion to greater and lesser Good or Evil.
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Now the political or deliberative orator's aim is utility: deliberation seeks to determine not ends but the means to ends, i.e. what it is most useful to do.
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caseyboyle.net caseyboyle.netAntidosis13
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First of all, tell me what eloquence could be more righteous or more just than one which praises our ancestors in a manner worthy of their excellence and of their achievements? Again, what could be more patriotic or more serviceable to Athens than one which shows that by virtue both of our other benefactions and of our exploits in war we have greater claims to the hegemony than the Lacedaemonians
Writing/Using Rhetoric is Patriotic?
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For I ask you not only to show me no mercy, if the oratory which I cultivate is harmful, but to inflict on me the extreme penalty if it is not superior to any other.44 But I should not have made so bold a proposal, if I were not about to show you what my eloquence is and to make it very easy for you to pass judgement upon it.
Asking to be challenged? Since he thinks that he is much smarter than everyone else, is this really a challenge?
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Pan-Hellenic assemblies—discourses which, as everyone will agree, are more akin to works composed in rhythm and set to music than to the speeches which are made in court.
I think that this is a term used to describe Greek life on campus. Why are these similar?
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Now, in fact, no citizen has ever been harmed either by my “cleverness” or by my writings, and I think the most convincing proof of this is furnished by this trial; for if any man had been wronged by me, even though he might have held his tongue up till now, he would not have neglected the present opportunity, but would have come forward to denounce me or bear witness against me.
He is trying to prove that he has not corrupted anyone because no one has ever complained.
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but to judge me to be the kind of man which the accusation and the defense in this trial will show me to be;
He is asking people to judge him based on the facts not what they have heard about him through the gossip vine.
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my accuser endeavors to vilify me, charging that I corrupt young men30 by teaching them to speak and gain their own advantage in the courts contrary to justice, while in his speech he makes me out to be a man whose equal has never been known either among those who hang about the law-courts or among the devotees of philosophy; for he declares that I have had as my pupils not only private persons but orators, generals, kings, and despots;31 and that I have received from them and am now receiving enormous sums of money.
We talked about this in class. He is accused of corruption
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Indeed no one may rely on the honesty of his life as a guarantee that he will be able to live securely in Athens; for the men who have chosen to neglect what is their own and to plot against what belongs to others do not keep their hands off citizens who live soberly and bring before you only those who do evil; on the contrary, they advertise their powers in their attacks upon men who are entirely innocent, and so get more money from those who are clearly guilty.2
Story of King Solomon in the Bible. Two women were fighting over a baby and he said he would have it cut in half so each of them could have half. One woman shouted 'No' and the other shouted 'yes.' King Solomon then told the guard to give the baby to the woman who shouted 'No' because it was obviously hers because she did not want to see it hurt. People become jealous and covet other peoples property and lives because they are jealous.
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You should remember this and not trust too hastily the assertions of the accuser nor hear the defendant in uproar and anger.
innocent until proven guilty.
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not to seek to run through the whole of it at the first sitting, but only so much of it as will not fatigue the audience
He says a lot in what he writes. It can be difficult to take in so he says it is best to read it over time rather than in one sitting.
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for while some things in my discourse are appropriate to be spoken in a court-room, others are out of place amid such controversies, being frank discussions about philosophy and expositions of its power. There is in it, also, matter which it would be well for young men to hear before they set out to gain knowledge and an education; and there is much, besides, of what I have written in the past, inserted in the present discussion, not without reason nor without fitness, but with due appropriateness to the subject in hand.
There is a time and place for every conversation.
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in my eighty-second year. Wherefore, you may well forgive me if my speech appears to be less vigorous15 than those which I have published in the past.
Excuses himself for slowing down. Offers a reason if his work is not good enough.
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if I were to attempt a eulogy of myself, I should not be able to cover all the points which I proposed to discuss, nor should I succeed in treating them without arousing the displeasure or even the envy of my hearers.
Why would he write a eulogy for himself? Does he not want to hear what others would say? is he afraid of what they would say? Or does he think that he is too smart for them to possibly eulogize?
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“cleverness” of speech
manipulating others using technical jargon?
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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"Good luck" means the acquisition or possession of all or most, or the most important, of those good things which are due to luck.
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The excellence of the body is health; that is, a condition which allows us, while keeping free from disease, to have the use of our bodies; for many people are "healthy" as we are told Herodicus was; and these no one can congratulate on their "health," for they have to abstain from everything or nearly everything that men do.-- Beauty varies with the time of life.
Interesting, there is no mention of women in this definition of beauty.
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Doing good refers either to the preservation of life and the means of life, or to wealth, or to some other of the good things which it is hard to get either always or at that particular place or time -- for many gain honour for things which seem small, but the place and the occasion account for it. The constituents of honour are: sacrifices; commemoration, in verse or prose; privileges; grants of land; front seats at civic celebrations; state burial; statues; public maintenance; among foreigners, obeisances and giving place; and such presents as are among various bodies of men regarded as marks of honour.
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Now good birth in a race or a state means that its members are indigenous or ancient: that its earliest leaders were distinguished men, and that from them have sprung many who were distinguished for qualities that we admire.
Does this still apply today?
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From this definition of happiness it follows that its constituent parts are: -- good birth, plenty of friends, good friends, wealth, good children, plenty of children, a happy old age, also such bodily excellences as health, beauty, strength, large stature, athletic powers, together with fame, honour, good luck, and virtue. A man cannot fail to be completely independent if he possesses these internal and these external goods; for besides these there are no others to have.
What is happiness?
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There is, indeed, a capacity for long life that is quite independent of health or strength; for many people live long who lack the excellences of the body; but for our present purpose there is no use in going into the details of this.
Or independence, getting to my earlier point.
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The constituents of honour are: sacrifices; commemoration, in verse or prose; privileges; grants of land; front seats at civic celebrations; state burial; statues; public maintenance; among foreigners, obeisances and giving place; and such presents as are among various bodies of men regarded as marks of honour.
Interesting, honor being a public pursuit vs. private. Huh, live and learn.
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Honour is the token of a man's being famous for doing good.
Can one have honor and derive happiness from, without being famous for it? This sounds more like fame.
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The phrases "possession of good children" and "of many children" bear a quite clear meaning.
What is there to do to for people with bad or ugly children, just be unhappy?
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A man cannot fail to be completely independent if he possesses these internal and these external goods; for besides these there are no others to have.
It sounds like he is placing "independence" at the base of all happiness. I do not disagree, but I would hope it is debatable, since it is not possible for all people at all times to be independent.
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It may be said that every individual man and all men in common aim at a certain end which determines what they choose and what they avoid.
What is left out is as important to shaping the argument and what is chosen.
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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He must, therefore, know how many different forms of constitution there are; under what conditions each of these will prosper and by what internal developments or external attacks each of them tends to be destroyed. When I speak of destruction through internal developments I refer to the fact that all constitutions, except the best one of all, are destroyed both by not being pushed far enough and by being pushed too far.
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It is useful, in framing laws, not only to study the past history of one's own country, in order to understand which constitution is desirable for it now, but also to have a knowledge of the constitutions of other nations, and so to learn for what kinds of nation the various kinds of constitution are suited.
"Know [your] song well before [you] start singing" Regarding the breadth and depth of background knowledge needed, generalizing, for each subject.
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The truth is, as indeed we have said already, that rhetoric is a combination of the science of logic and of the ethical branch of politics; and it is partly like dialectic, partly like sophistical reasoning.
in short, the breadth of rhetoric
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The main matters on which all men deliberate and on which political speakers make speeches are some five in number: ways and means, war and peace, national defence, imports and exports, and legislation.
5 main matters
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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For of the three elements in speech-making -- speaker, subject, and person addressed -- it is the last one, the hearer, that determines the speech's end and object. [1358b] The hearer must be either a judge, with a decision to make about things past or future, or an observer. A member of the assembly decides about future events, a juryman about past events: while those who merely decide on the orator's skill are observers. From this it follows that there are three divisions of oratory-(1) political, (2) forensic, and (3) the ceremonial oratory of display.
I like how he divides these categories into past, present, and futures.
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t is evident from what has been said that it is these three subjects, more than any others, about which the orator must be able to have propositions at his command. Now the propositions of Rhetoric are Complete Proofs, Probabilities, and Signs. Every kind of syllogism is composed of propositions, and the enthymeme is a particular kind of syllogism composed of the aforesaid propositions.
As laid out and defined in detail, with relation to subject, each concerning time, purpose, goal, listener, and methods, and degrees, understand appropriateness of the propositions applying to each.
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These three kinds of rhetoric refer to three different kinds of time. The political orator is concerned with the future: it is about things to be done hereafter that he advises, for or against. The party in a case at law is concerned with the past; one man accuses the other, and the other defends himself, with reference to things already done. The ceremonial orator is, properly speaking, concerned with the present,
Time orientation of political, forensic, and ceremonial, respectively, future, past, and present
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Rhetoric falls into three divisions, determined by the three classes of listeners to speeches. For of the three elements in speech-making -- speaker, subject, and person addressed -- it is the last one, the hearer, that determines the speech's end and object.
regarding the listener, subdivided for forensic, political, and theatrical display
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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Of Signs, one kind bears the same relation to the statement it supports as the particular bears to the universal, the other the same as the universal bears to the particular. The infallible kind is a "complete proof" (tekmerhiou); the fallible kind has no specific name.
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The enthymeme must consist of few propositions, fewer often than those which make up the normal syllogism. For if any of these propositions is a familiar fact, there is no need even to mention it; the hearer adds it himself. Thus, to show that Dorieus has been victor in a contest for which the prize is a crown, it is enough to say "For he has been victor in the Olympic games," without adding "And in the Olympic games the prize is a crown," a fact which everybody knows.
Avoid redundancy.
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The duty of rhetoric is to deal with such matters as we deliberate upon without arts or systems to guide us, in the hearing of persons who cannot take in at a glance a complicated argument, or follow a long chain of reasoning.
Adapt material to audience
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The difference between example and enthymeme is made plain by the passages in the Topics where induction and syllogism have already been discussed. When we base the proof of a proposition on a number of similar cases, this is induction in dialectic, example in rhetoric; when it is shown that, certain propositions being true, a further and quite distinct proposition must also be true in consequence, whether invariably or usually, this is called syllogism in dialectic, enthymeme in rhetoric. It is plain also that each of these types of oratory has its advantages.
Huh??
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In the same way the theory of rhetoric is concerned not with what seems probable to a given individual like Socrates or Hippias, but with what seems probable to men of a given type; and this is true of dialectic also
shared camp of rhetoric and dialectic
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The example is an induction, the enthymeme is a syllogism, and the apparent enthymeme is an apparent syllogism. I call the enthymeme a rhetorical syllogism, and the example a rhetorical induction. Every one who effects persuasion through proof does in fact use either enthymemes or examples: there is no other way.
defining enthymeme, syllogism, induction, their use and purpose
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There are, then, these three means of effecting persuasion. The man who is to be in command of them must, it is clear, be able (1) to reason logically, (2) to understand human character and goodness in their various forms, and (3) to understand the emotions-that is, to name them and describe them, to know their causes and the way in which they are excited.
means of persuasion: ethos, logos, pathos
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[1356a] Of the modes of persuasion furnished by the spoken word there are three kinds. The first kind depends on the personal character of the speaker; the second on putting the audience into a certain frame of mind; the third on the proof, or apparent proof, provided by the words of the speech itself.
Modes of persuasion: character of speaker, appeal, proof
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Of the modes of persuasion some belong strictly to the art of rhetoric and some do not.
unlike, say, a paintings, which could be said to persuade, do not belong to the art of rhetoric?
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But rhetoric we look upon as the power of observing the means of persuasion on almost any subject presented to us; and that is why we say that, in its technical character, it is not concerned with any special or definite class of subjects.
further defined
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Rhetoric may be defined as the faculty of observing in any given case the available means of persuasion. This is not a function of any other art.
definition and distinction
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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we must be able to employ persuasion, just as strict reasoning can be employed, on opposite sides of a question, not in order that we may in practice employ it in both ways (for we must not make people believe what is wrong), but in order that we may see clearly what the facts are, and that, if another man argues unfairly, we on our part may be able to confute him. No other of the arts draws opposite conclusions: dialectic and rhetoric alone do this.
In order to persuade one must address and understand all facts in a situation. Art of opposites.
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The true and the approximately true are apprehended by the same faculty; it may also be noted that men have a sufficient natural instinct for what is true, and usually do arrive at the truth. Hence the man who makes a good guess at truth is likely to make a good guess at probabilities.
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Both ways being possible, the subject can plainly be handled systematically, for it is possible to inquire the reason why some speakers succeed through practice and others spontaneously; and every one will at once agree that such an inquiry is the function of an art.
Art vs. experience
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Accordingly all men make use, more or less, of both; for to a certain extent all men attempt to discuss statements and to maintain them, to defend themselves and to attack others
Is this what constitutes basic conversation?
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No; things that are true and things that are better are, by their nature, practically always easier to prove and easier to believe in.
Disagree for the block. I don't know where to begin with how much I disagree with this and don't want to present ideas that offend people, so I'll just leave it at that
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Hence the man who makes a good guess at truth is likely to make a good guess at probabilities
At first, I didn't like this quote, then I thought back to good ol' Oakley's stats class. We make scientific theories based on what idea is most likely to happen (we reject/do not reject the null hypothesis, but we do not say we accept the null hypothesis). Science: putting me in my place since I had a place to be put.
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Rhetoric is the counterpart of Dialectic. Both alike are concerned with such things as come, more or less, within the general ken of all men and belong to no definite science. Accordingly all men make use, more or less, of both; for to a certain extent all men attempt to discuss statements and to maintain them, to defend themselves and to attack others. Ordinary people do this either at random or through practice and from acquired habit. Both ways being possible, the subject can plainly be handled systematically, for it is possible to inquire the reason why some speakers succeed through practice and others spontaneously; and every one will at once agree that such an inquiry is the function of an art.
All I could think of was Crow's one liner from the Cave Dweller's Episode: Could you be a little more vague, please?
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What makes a man a "sophist" is not his faculty, but his moral purpose. In rhetoric, however, the term "rhetorician" may describe either the speaker's knowledge of the art, or his moral purpose. In dialectic it is different: a man is a "sophist" because he has a certain kind of moral purpose, a "dialectician" in respect, not of his moral purpose, but of his faculty.
defining terms, sophist/dialectic and rhetoric/rhetorician, and moral purpose
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It is clear, then, that rhetoric is not bound up with a single definite class of subjects, but is as universal as dialectic; it is clear, also, that it is useful. It is clear, further, that its function is not simply to succeed in persuading, but rather to discover the means of coming as near such success as the circumstances of each particular case allow. In this it resembles all other arts. For example, it is not the function of medicine simply to make a man quite healthy, but to put him as far as may be on the road to health; it is possible to give excellent treatment even to those who can never enjoy sound health.
defining rhetoric's worth and limitations
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No other of the arts draws opposite conclusions: dialectic and rhetoric alone do this.
the shared domain of rhetoric and dialectic
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The enthymeme is a sort of syllogism, and the consideration of syllogisms of all kinds, without distinction, is the business of dialectic, either of dialectic as a whole or of one of its branches.
enthymeme, syllogism, and dialectic.
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It is clear, then, that rhetorical study, in its strict sense, is concerned with the modes of persuasion. Persuasion is clearly a sort of demonstration, since we are most fully persuaded when we consider a thing to have been demonstrated. The orator's demonstration is an enthymeme, and this is, in general, the most effective of the modes of persuasion.
rhetoric vs. persuasion?
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The reason for this is that in political oratory there is less inducement to talk about nonessentials. Political oratory is less given to unscrupulous practices than forensic, because it treats of wider issues. In a political debate the man who is forming a judgement is making a decision about his own vital interests. There is no need, therefore, to prove anything except that the facts are what the supporter of a measure maintains they are. In forensic oratory this is not enough; to conciliate the listener is what pays here.
Defines useful types of rhetoric for forensics vs. political arenas.
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The only question with which these writers here deal is how to put the judge into a given frame of mind. About the orator's proper modes of persuasion they have nothing to tell us; nothing, that is, about how to gain skill in enthymemes.
Written description to date deals with the structure of judicial process and is not instructive of modes of persuasion.
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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The honest rhetorician has no separate name to distinguish him from the dishonest.
What profession does have a name to separate the honest from the dishonest?
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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mind about forty-nine.
Interstingly enough, studies have shown that one's analytic IQ (so long as they engage in intellectually stimulating activity) reaches its peak at 50. Good on ya, Aristotle.
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In regard to each emotion we must consider (a) the states of mind in which it is felt; (b) the people towards whom it is felt; (c) the grounds on which it is felt.
Detailed attention to the psychology of one's audience.
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Refutation. An argument may be refuted either by a counter-syllogism or by bringing an objection. Objections may be raised in four ways: (a) by directly attacking your opponent's own statement; (b) by putting forward another statement like it; (c) by putting forward a statement contrary to it; (d) by quoting previous decisions.
four basis of refute/objection
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Fables are suitable for popular addresses; and they have this advantage, that they are comparatively easy to invent, whereas it is hard to find parallels among actual past events.
We like stories, they engage us.
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they enable a speaker to gratify his commonplace hearers by expressing as a universal truth the opinions which they themselves hold about particular cases
Establishing common ground for the listener instills confidence through a sense of belonging or sameness, elevating them to feel "on par" with the argument, as though respectful of their own intellectual abilities and moral character.
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A maxim is a general statement about questions of practical conduct. It is an incomplete enthymeme. Four kinds of maxims. Maxims should be used (a) by elderly men, and (b) to controvert popular sayings. Advantages of maxims: (a) they enable a speaker to gratify his commonplace hearers by expressing as a universal truth the opinions which they themselves hold about particular cases; (b) they invest a speech with moral character.
Maxims defined.
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In regard to each emotion we must consider (a) the states of mind in which it is felt; (b) the people towards whom it is felt; (c) the grounds on which it is felt.
Grounding the argument in a tone reflective of the conditions and circumstances at hand with regard to "influencing the emotions [and] moral affections" in political and forensic demonstration.
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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The above is a sufficient account, for our present purpose, of virtue and vice in general, and of their various forms.
Aristotle's "virtue and vice".
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Prudence is that virtue of the understanding which enables men to come to wise decisions about the relation to happiness of the goods and evils that have been previously mentioned.
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Magnanimity is the virtue that disposes us to do good to others on a large scale; [its opposite is meanness of spirit]. Magnificence is a virtue productive of greatness in matters involving the spending of money. The opposites of these two are smallness of spirit and meanness respectively.
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Liberality disposes us to spend money for others' good; illiberality is the opposite.
Liberality: Thrift as opposed to "Scrooge".
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Next comes liberality; liberal people let their money go instead of fighting for it, whereas other people care more for money than for anything else.
Interesting to see liberty and liberalism defined.
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Justice is the virtue through which everybody enjoys his own possessions in accordance with the law; its opposite is injustice, through which men enjoy the possessions of others in defiance of the law.
Justice defined as possessions rightly enjoyed.
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Temperance is the virtue that disposes us to obey the law where physical pleasures are concerned; incontinence is the opposite.
Tempering rather than pissing on, or away?
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Virtue is, according to the usual view, a faculty of providing and preserving good things; or a faculty of conferring many great benefits, and benefits of all kinds on all occasions.
Virtue defined.
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The Noble is that which is both desirable for its own sake and also worthy of praise; or that which is both good and also pleasant because good. If this is a true definition of the Noble, it follows that virtue must be noble, since it is both a good thing and also praiseworthy
Nobility defined, good and also praiseworthy, and virtuous.
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The forms of Virtue are justice, courage, temperance, magnificence, magnanimity, liberality, gentleness, prudence, wisdom.
Forms of virtue.
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The ways in which to make them trust the goodness of other people are also the ways in which to make them trust our own.
On gaining favor, for ourselves and others, the same applies.
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rhetoric.eserver.org rhetoric.eserver.org
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We have now considered the objects, immediate or distant, at which we are to aim when urging any proposal, and the grounds on which we are to base our arguments in favour of its utility.
Grounding arguments.
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We shall learn the qualities of governments in the same way as we learn the qualities of individuals, since they are revealed in their deliberate acts of choice; and these are determined by the end that inspires them.
Qualities of governments and qualities of the individual.
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We must also notice the ends which the various forms of government pursue, since people choose in practice such actions as will lead to the realization of their ends.
The importance of understanding various forms of government and their primary ends
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The most important and effective qualification for success in persuading audiences and speaking well on public affairs is to understand all the forms of government and to discriminate their respective customs, institutions, and interests. For all men are persuaded by considerations of their interest, and their interest lies in the maintenance of the established order.
On being well versed for appealing to people on the basis of their particular values and interests, and understanding the order at the base of individual community and personal structures.
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