How do we go from such varied statements from Jesuits which entered the popular discourse to the complete erasure of this knowledge in subsequent generations. Was the greed for land and power so great?

Just as Western historians erase indigenous ideas as misunderstandings or fabrications or outright appropriation of those ideas as pre-existing ideas in European culture, is it possible that we do the same thing with orality and memory? Are medievalists seeing mnemotechniques of the time and not properly interpreting them by not seeing them in their original contexts and practices?

The idea of talking rocks, as an example, is dismissed as lunacy, crazy, or some new-age hokum, but in reality it's at the far end of the spectrum. It's so unknowable for Western audiences that it's wholly dismissed rather than embraced, extended, and erased.

What does the spectrum of potentially appropriated ideas look like? What causes their adoption or not, particularly in cases of otherwise cultural heterodoxy?

Indigenous peoples of the Americas critiqued European institutions for their structures and lack of freedom. In turn, while some Europeans listened, they created an evolutionary political spectrum of increasing human complexity to combat this indigenous critique.

It's interesting to note that the founders of the United States famously including Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr regularly participated in duel culture which often ended in death despite its use as a means of defending one's honor and relieving tensions between people.

https://marksuth.dev/renaming-indigenous/

Graeber and Wengrow argue that Rousseau invents leftist discourse by juxtaposing the evolutionist idea of societies and the indigenous critique in Discourse on the Origin and Basis of Inequality Among Men (Discours sur l'origine et les fondements de l'inégalité parmi les hommes) in 1754.

How many non-agricultural societies practiced slavery?

Apparently some indigenous societies on the American Northwest Coast did down into coastal California.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_Rock,_Georgia

Note the proximity to New Echota, the capital of the Cherokee nation.

American vaccine disinformation used as ‘Trojan horse’ for far right in New Zealand. (n.d.). NBC News. Retrieved December 3, 2021, from https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/american-vaccine-disinformation-used-trojan-horse-far-right-new-zealan-rcna6423

The Western word "ceremony" is certainly not the best word for describing these traditions. It has too much baggage and hidden meaning with religious overtones. It's a close-enough word to convey some meaning to those who don't have the cultural background to understand the underlying orality and memory culture. It is one of those words that gets "lost in translation" because of the dramatic differences in culture and contextual collapse.

Most Western-based anthropology presumes a Western idea of "religion" and impinges it upon oral cultures. I would maintain that what we would call their "religion" is really an oral-based mnemonic tradition that creates the power of their culture through knowledge. The West mistakes this for superstitious religious practices, but primarily because we can't see (or have never been shown) the larger structures behind what is going on. Our hubris and lack of respect (the evils of the scala naturae) has prevented us from listening and gaining entrance to this knowledge.

I think that the archaeological ideas of cultish practices or ritual and religion are all more likely better viewed as oral practices of mnemonic tradition. To see this more easily compare the Western idea of the memory palace with the Australian indigenous idea of songline.

https://marksuth.dev/indigenous-for-android-0-65/

Tania Bubela. (2021, November 17). New resources on #COVID19vaccines & #pregnancy from the fantastic group @CDCofBC Indigenous Knowledge Translation Working Group. @HarlanPruden working to meet knowledge needs of Indigenous communities in ways that are meaningful. @ScienceUpFirst take note! @SFU_FHS @CaulfieldTim https://t.co/oK3WJUj9p6 [Tweet]. @bubela_tania. https://twitter.com/bubela_tania/status/1460776956379557889

Shared by Russ Diabo on Twitter.

The reality of the history of Canada’s mining industry makes #SquidGame look like child’s play.

“The truth is that all of the gold that was mined out of the Klondike was under Indigenous land. There was no treaty with any of the Indigenous peoples in the Yukon.”

“That land was stolen by the Canadian state and that gold was whisked away by private interests. The Federal Government only signed land claims with Indigenous peoples in the Yukon in the 1990s, but by that point, almost all the gold had been mined out of the ground.”

“The Klondike gold rush was a rolling disaster that captured tens of thousands of people. When the first European explorers came to the Americas, they came here looking for gold. In the 1890s, that lust for precious metals eventually led men to the farthest reaches of this continent.”

“Today, instead of 100,000 people descending on a small patch of land, you have large corporations digging treasures out of the ground. But the legacies these mining operations leave behind are just like what happened in the Klondike: workers with broken bodies, environmental destruction, the dispossession of Indigenous land, sexual violence. The gold rushes never stopped. They just morphed into something different.”

“The truth is that all of the gold that was mined out of the Klondike was under Indigenous land. There was no treaty with any of the Indigenous peoples in the Yukon.”

“That land was stolen by the Canadian state and that gold was whisked away by private interests. The Federal Government only signed land claims with Indigenous peoples in the Yukon in the 1990s, but by that point, almost all the gold had been mined out of the ground.”

“The Klondike gold rush was a rolling disaster that captured tens of thousands of people. When the first European explorers came to the Americas, they came here looking for gold. In the 1890s, that lust for precious metals eventually led men to the farthest reaches of this continent.”

“Today, instead of 100,000 people descending on a small patch of land, you have large corporations digging treasures out of the ground. But the legacies these mining operations leave behind are just like what happened in the Klondike: workers with broken bodies, environmental destruction, the dispossession of Indigenous land, sexual violence. The gold rushes never stopped. They just morphed into something different.”

Canada is Fake

“Canada is not an accident or a work in progress or a thought experiment. I mean that Canada is a scam — a pyramid scheme, a ruse, a heist. Canada is a front. And it’s a front for a massive network of resource extraction companies, oil barons, and mining magnates.”

Extraction Empire

Globally, more than 75% of prospecting and mining companies on the planet are based in Canada. Seemingly impossible to conceive, the scale of these statistics naturally extends the logic of Canada’s historical legacy as state, nation, and now, as global resource empire.

Canada’s Indian Reserve System served, officially, as a strategy of Indigenous apartheid (preceding South African apartheid) and unofficially, as a policy of Indigenous genocide (preceding the Nazi concentration camps of World War II).

“The Squamish Nation fought for decades to get their land back. In 2003, 10.5 acres of the 80-acre government-designated reserve were returned to their original inhabitants.”

Khelsilem Is Young, Squamish and Reshaping the Political Landscape

How the kid they called Old Man Rivers is helping to change the future of his people and the region.

We are witnessing a convergence of Western science and Indigenous wisdom.

Note the download available for the spoken word and musical performances.

Leanne Betasamosake Simpson writes of all her relations with living beings, the land, and the water. She explores the disconnection that results from the building of lift locks, canals, and hydro dams in her stories of Nogojiwanong in her book, Islands of Decolonial Love.

In our recent Stop Reset Go meeting, we discussed the goal of connection. Leanne Simpson has much to say about connection in her collection of stories.

Richard Ramsay brought this session to the attention of our World Weavers group.

This is certainly what is happening in the commonplace book tradition and even more explicitly in the zettelkasten tradition.

What other methods of offloading exist besides writing and speaking? Hand gestures? Dance? What hidden modalities of offloading might indigenous societies use that Western culture might not be cognizant of?

Often journaling or writing in a diary is a often a means of offloading the psychological cruft of one's day to be able to start afresh.

This is some of the philosophy behind creating so-called "morning pages".

We're also dramatically missing thousands of years of indigenous experience as well.

Mexico before the US, Migration from Mexico, Reasons, Economic; Time in the US, Arriving in the United States, First impressions, Living situation

Boadle, A. (2021, February 12). Indigenous leaders warn of missionaries turning Amazon villages against vaccines. Reuters. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-brazil-amazon-idUKKBN2AB2JR

Example of tension between indigenous IP and commercial use.

Indigenous people's license example.

A nice overview of indigenous art in Australia from about the 1940's until today. Some fantastic pieces in here.

No offense, but do you expect every professor to take a field trip with their class each lecture? Let’s be realistic here. How about the students get a workshop on it in the first week (and a book for all I care) and then learn to apply these techniques as they see fit outside the classroom.

The article is about applying these techniques at the highest levels of education, at the point where the learners have already gone through 16+ years of intensive study. I wouldn't expect college professors to go on outings. But why not center these techniques and make them more mainstream at the lowest levels of education starting in kindergarten and for the first six years of formal education? Then they can become daily habits to make learning at the higher levels far easier.

The interesting, and all-too-often ignored, feature of most colleges and universities is that they are on expansive campuses with large numbers of buildings, grounds, and surrounding neighborhoods which could specifically be used to create massive memory palaces or extended local songlines.

Or not… some people prefer rote learning for certain actives

Some may prefer rote memorization, though I don't personally know many who do, and I expect that most probably don't. This research study specifically underlines evidence that these Australian methods are easier and more "fun". The bigger issue is that the vast majority aren't presented with any options for alternate methods anywhere in their educations. I would suspect that the vast majority here in the forums are 15 years old or far beyond by the time they hear about these alternate methods.

[...] others find “song, dance, painting” a little too new age to take it seriously… not passing judgement, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and you certainly have yours. I feel as if you have, however, passed judgment and simultaneously denigrated them (in my opinion) by labeling them "new age". The research article itself states:

The foremost consideration with respect to teaching of the Australian Aboriginal memory technique is the cultural safety aspect and respect for the peoples who developed this approach. In our program, the teaching of this program was administered by an experienced Australian Aboriginal Educator, who was able to integrate the method into our teaching program, while simultaneously preventing several breaches of cultural etiquette and terminology which could easily have compromised the material had it been delivered by a non-Australian Aboriginal educator (TY), however well-intentioned.

They're specifically mentioning here the lack of respect and attention (usually from Westerners, which I suspect includes you) that these methods are given outside of their home culture. I would suggest that you don't value these approaches because they weren't centered or focused on in your own cultural education. As a result you're missing out on the value they do contain, of which the research study under discussion provides direct peer reviewed evidence. Incidentally the metrical system you wish were centered is exactly the sort of technique that is already built into many indigenous systems and was very likely even embedded into ancient Greek culture, but it has long since disappeared and was nearly completely snuffed out by (religious) Western education reformers in the late 1500's.

I'd recommend looking at Dr. Lynne Kelly's texts The Memory Code: The Secrets of Stonehenge, Easter Island and Other Ancient Monuments (Pegasus, 2017) and Songlines: The Power and Promise (First Knowledges) (Thames & Hudson, 2020) (with Dr. Margo Neale) for more details on some of these cultural traditions which have a more nuanced and respectful approach.

Too often here in these forums, and in life, people treat these these mnemonic techniques as "clever hacks", when, for many current and past cultures, they were a literal way of both life and survival.

Let’s face it, be it law school, med school, or b-school… students manage to graduate with or without techniques at the moment, so it’s not like we desperately need memory techniques in higher education.

This is an incredibly privileged perspective. Sure these students do manage to graduate, but you're also looking a minuscule proportion of the most highly educated people on the planet. For perspective, in 2018–2019, 21,622 applicants were accepted to allopathic (MD) medical schools out of the 52,777 who applied, for an overall acceptance rate of 41% in the United States. The accepted people represent roughly 0.0003 percent of the world's population. This number doesn't get much bigger (or rosier) when you expand the population to those in all graduate schools world wide.

I've got several hundred friends and acquaintances who did either MDs or combined MD/Ph.D. programs and very few would say their studies were easy. Why not make it easier? Why not make these methods more widespread? Why not provide them to everyone? Imagine the number who could have not only an easier time, but greater knowledge, (and more fun!)? Very few of the practicing physicians I know could still diagram the TCA-cycle described in the paper, but if you could have a more knowledgeable physician treat you, wouldn't you want that? Wouldn't you want a more educated and happier society all around?

…I’d call that stone garden a “memory palace.” Is there an outdoor element or something that memory palaces supposedly don’t have? I really don’t get how this is different. I use outdoor memory palaces all the time

The stone garden certainly is a memory palace for those who wish to use it that way. However, from the Australian Aboriginal perspective, there are additional layers of narrative, movement, (and potentially song, dance, and art, etc.) layered on top of it to enrich the experience. It's unfortunate that the paper doesn't go deeper into the subtleties or differences, but they're also making at least some attempt to show respect to the culture from which the technique stems. This is a place where Drs. Kelly and Neale's Songlines text may help provide additional depth and perspective, though even it would be limited in comparison with embedding yourself within a culture to have indigenous elders to teach you directly.

I really appreciate the respect given to indigenous knowledge here.

The researchers could have gone much further in depth in describing it and the aspects of what they mean by cultural "safety". They've done a disservice here by downplaying widespread adoption. Why not? Why couldn't we accord the proper respect of traditions to actively help make these techniques more widespread? Shouldn't we be willing to do the actual work to accord respect and passing on of these knowledges?

Given my reading in the area, there seems to be an inordinate amount of (Western) "mysticism" attributed to these techniques (here and in the broader anthropology literature) rather than approaching them head-on from a more indigenous perspective. Naturally the difficult part is being trusted enough by tribal elders to be taught these methods to be able to pass them on. (Link this idea to Tim Ingold's first chapter of Anthropology: Why It Matters.)

All this being said, the general methods known from the West, could still be modified to facilitate in widespread adoption of those techniques we do know. Further work and refinement of them could continue apace while still maintaining the proper respect of other cultures and methods, which should be the modern culture default.

If nothing else, the West could at least roll back the educational reforms which erased their own heritage to regain those pieces. The West showing a bit of respect for itself certainly wouldn't be out of line either.

I'll have to bump up Tyson Yunkaporta's work on my reading list, particularly the cited text:

Yunkaporta T. Sand talk: how Indigenous thinking can save the world. Melbourne, Victoria: Text Publishing Company; 2019.

This is so heartwarming to me.

Not to mention a more sophisticated view of their culture and contributions instead of viewing them as "lesser", which is the dominant mode in most Western cultures.

Rasolt, D. H. (n.d.). Mistrust fuels covid-19 vaccine doubts in Colombia’s Indigenous groups. New Scientist. Retrieved May 17, 2021, from https://www.newscientist.com/article/2272195-mistrust-fuels-covid-19-vaccine-doubts-in-colombias-indigenous-groups/

I love the ideas hiding in some of these design elements. The pieces are very atomic, but can be built up into some fascinating bigger designs.

I'm curious if there are any mnemonics attached to these that add additional levels of meaning in the art in which they're embedded?

The attached video was incredibly helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc3K-MyH3xg

Richardson, L., & Crawford, A. (2020, October 27). How Indigenous Communities in Canada Organized an Exemplary Public Health Response to COVID. Scientific American. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-indigenous-communities-in-canada-organized-an-exemplary-public-health-response-to-covid/

Siehe Kryosphäre Report, Joelle Gergis, Reportage über Grönland, Ethnologie der Arktis

Particularly interesting to see the phrase "spiritualities were tied to the land" now knowing the power of mnemonics for a variety of indigenous peoples.

In this framing, the IndieWeb is a group of Indigenous peoples who lived on the web before the colonializing Facebook arrived to tell us how we ought to be living.

How does this juxtapose with the ideas of indigenous scocieties in James Suzman's article The 300,000-year case for the 15-hour week (Financial Times, 2020-08-27)

It looks to me like Andy and Michael are grasping at recreating with modern technology and tools what many (most? all?) indigenous cultures around the world used to ritually learn and memorize their culture's knowledge. Mnemonics, spaced repetition, graded initiation, orality, dance, and song were all used as a cohesive whole to do this.

The best introduction to many of these methods and their pedagogic uses is best described by Lynne Kelly's book Knowledge and Power in Prehistoric Societies: Orality, Memory, and the Transmission of Culture.

If they take her ideas as a basis and then layer on their own thinking, I think they'll get much further much quicker. Based on my reading of their work thus far, they're limiting themselves.

As most humanists of the time may have had incredibly well-trained memories (particularly in comparison with the general loss of the art now), this is particularly interesting to me. Having had a great memory, the real value of these writings and materials is to help their memories dramatically outlive their own lifetimes. This is particularly useful as their systems of passing down ideas via memory was dramatically different than those of indigenous peoples who had a much more institutionalized version of memory methods and passing along their knowledge.

Desi Rodriguez-Lonebear, PhD on Twitter. (n.d.). Twitter. Retrieved 2 September 2020, from https://twitter.com/native4data/status/1300950878082531329

Additional Resource: I would like to recommend adding:

Traditional Knowledge and the Public Domain. Ruth L. Okediji. CIGI Papers No. 176 — June 2018

https://www.cigionline.org/publications/traditional-knowledge-and-public-domain

A thought-provoking paper about the the intersection of traditional knowledge and the public domain.

Additional Resource: I would like to recommend adding:

Is it possible to decolonize the Commons? An interview with Jane Anderson of Local Contexts

https://creativecommons.org/2019/01/30/jane-anderson/

This interview expands on TK (traditional knowledge) labels and Cultural Heritage. The interview came about after a panel the CC Global Summit, where the panelists discussed "the need for practical strategies for Indigenous communities to reclaim their rights and assert sovereignty over their own intellectual property.".

Taylor, L. (2020, June 18). Coronavirus poses grave threat to Amazon’s indigenous communities. New Scientist. https://www.newscientist.com/article/2246572-coronavirus-poses-grave-threat-to-amazons-indigenous-communities/

Obviously, indigenous labor in the US was not the "lowest level of production" (highlighted 2 paragraphs above) if it could be farmed out to equally exploited asian workers.

indigenous peoples, religion,

I can't help but thinking here about stories of native peoples feeling like photographs of them were like having their soul stolen.

You might be interested in the last section of a recent episode of <cite>On the Media</cite>. It discusses a documentary (bordering on reality show) relating to indigenous peoples of Canada, which I think made brief mention of Australia and a similar project there. While I'm sure there are some very striking differences between these indigenous peoples, there are also some not surprising similarity in the ways in which they are exploited and marginalized.

In general I liked the idea of what the documentary was and represented and wish there were versions for other countries.

This is a fantastic case study to explore CIL issues with.

$56 million

Writer with a focus on agriculture and indigenous issues.

sounds like a digital humanities project

Here, Marjorie is likely referring to a Navajo rug. She mentions explicitly using these rugs as gifts frequently, as in her May 12, June 6, and June 19, 1924 letters.

In each case, she alludes to these rugs only briefly, possibly suggesting how obvious to her their potential as souvenirs and "unique" decor was.

The Tatars are a Turkic people who live in Asia and Europe who were one of the five major tribal confederations in the Mongolian Plateau in the 12 century CE. They were numbered at more than 5 million in the late 20th century and lived mainly in west-central Russia along the course of the Volga River and to the east towards the Ural Mountains and also in western Siberia.

Williams, Brian Glyn. The Crimean Tatars: the diaspora experience and the forging of a nation. Vol. 2. Brill, 2001.

The Dene people are a part of a tribe located on the western subarctic region of Canada, where they experience harsh winters and short summers in the tundra-dominated territory. They are a part of a larger family of Aboriginal cultures known as the Athapaskan people, including the Chipewyan, Dogrib, Hare, Kutchin, Tutchone, Tahltan, Beaver, Carrier and Slavey. The word Dene in Athapaskan translates to “the people."

They rely heavily on caribou; it provides food, clothing, tools, and housing. They also hunted moose, musk-ox, rabbit, and fished to maintain their economy. However, it was not uncommon for tribe members to succumb to starvation and cold, as there was not much food in the southern region. For tribes located further west, the forests and rivers provided more opportunities for food, such as salmon.

The typical housing situation for the Dene varies, because most of the tribe members lead nomadic lives which requires materials that are easily transportable using toboggans. Housing ranged from skin-covered, dome-shaped tipis to cabins built with poles to dugout pit houses. The Dene are socially organized in small groups of families who travel together, though groups of up to 600 is known to happen. The family dynamic is traditional, where the men are the dominant figure. Though as individuals they were granted great amounts of freedom, menstruating women and girls entering puberty were forced in isolation in fear of upsetting the hunting spirits. Dene Chiefs did not reign indefinitely and were chosen based on merit and for temporary situations.

"Canada A Country by Consent: Native Peoples: Dene." Canada A Country by Consent: Native Peoples: Dene. Accessed March 06, 2017. http://www.canadahistoryproject.ca/1500/1500-11-dene.html.

The Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, or DIAND, is now referred to as Indigenous and Northern Affairs Canada, or INAC. Under the Federal Identity Program, INAC is a department of the Canadian Government in charge of policies relating to the indigenous peoples of Canada. This includes the First Nation, the Inuit and the Métis. INAC's responsibilities and actions are largely determined by careful negotiations and legal action, while fulfilling the government's constitutional obligations in the North. Some of their obligations include, improving social well-being and economic growth, developing healthier more sustainable communities and environments, and to continue to care for the North and its development for the betterment of all Canadians. Through the Government of Canada and the Indian Act, INAC works to provide support to reserves in areas of education, housing, community infrastructure and social prosperity.

For more information visit https://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1100100010023/1100100010027

Citations

Government of Canada; Indigenous and Northern Affairs Canada; Communications Branch. "About Indigenous and Northern Affairs Canada." N.p.

This jumps out at me as a major difference between the two systems of learning. Indigenous: highly contextualised with a strong sense of place versus Western: pedagogy deals with content in the abstract in spite of attempts to contextualise. What do you think?

Without trying to detract from the point, I'd be interested in a viable call to action here. Police demilitarization is a good example of a call to action that has come out of #BLM. Regarding indigenous rights, should we be reconsidering the reservation system? Should we be seeking more complete integration, or the opposite, more complete separation?

I confess that I've read woefully little about this and would love a gateway in.

This article seems to be the source of this statistic. As they note, it's a hard number to come by because the crime is neither well-covered in the media nor well-reported by the authorities. Regardless, though, given the centuries-long and wildly painful indigenous struggle in the US, this certainly deserves our attention.

Article touches on the indigenous struggle in the Gran Chaco region of Argentina. Poorly aware of their rights, the indios are faced with a constant battle of land expropriation and water pollution caused by the exploitation of large corporations.